ified, i had a hard time doing these.
> 1570629867 330025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cthulhu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66588&oldid=66587 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+40) 10Adding some category.
> 1570630031 185747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cthulhu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66589&oldid=66588 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+26) 10MOAR Categories
< 1570630088 567340 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570630098 615802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cthulhu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66590&oldid=66589 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+38) 10Probably object oriented
> 1570630687 938750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66591&oldid=66585 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+29) 10/* errors */
> 1570631226 209428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66592&oldid=66591 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+28) 10/* commands */
> 1570631385 222738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66593&oldid=66592 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+46) 10/* errors */
> 1570631646 145608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66594&oldid=66593 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+31) 10/* errors */
< 1570631731 560714 :izabera1!~izabera@176.57.231.35.bc.googleusercontent.com NICK :izabera
< 1570631739 903239 :izabera!~izabera@176.57.231.35.bc.googleusercontent.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1570631739 939447 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570633098 444334 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570633112 466358 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit
< 1570635623 89984 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570635792 365251 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570635813 111887 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570636028 469613 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570636518 354164 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1570636566 599783 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570636857 597606 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570637300 285959 :MDude!AdiIRC@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570637575 598852 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570637591 208882 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1570637622 653591 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570639764 742401 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly NICK :FaeFly
< 1570640248 926823 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net QUIT :Quit: Entering cryogenic sleep in three, two, on--
< 1570640418 594741 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570640612 911089 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570642027 295965 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570642744 187160 :kmc_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com NICK :kmc
< 1570643633 741400 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570646529 652459 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570646767 168196 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570646794 979697 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570647979 19506 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570648455 30322 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570648777 1676 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570650221 707520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570650518 200103 :clog_!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1570650528 96900 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570653142 450859 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1570656121 405526 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570656148 966293 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570658817 196918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :found the red glasses case. ok, now I can claim that I'm usually good at not losing my things
< 1570660967 962484 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1570661076 986965 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570662030 566724 :Hey66!50d67c4d@80.214.124.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570662092 156468 :Hey66!50d67c4d@80.214.124.77 NICK :anima
< 1570662206 467263 :anima!50d67c4d@80.214.124.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570662366 566733 :anima!50d67c4d@80.214.124.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570662775 483321 :anima!50d67c4d@80.214.124.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570662945 654832 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570663832 566379 :anima!50d671eb@80.214.113.235 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570663834 318905 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570664049 834079 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1004:9aa8:0:14:f914:e201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570664052 867160 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1004:9aa8:0:14:f914:e201 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570664066 924812 :anima!50d671eb@80.214.113.235 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570664098 744430 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1004:9aa8:0:14:f914:e201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570664576 517101 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1004:9aa8:0:14:f914:e201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570665265 607748 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570665293 224718 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570666851 404026 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570666868 598344 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570667653 407123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hups, forgot to log out
< 1570668248 100938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you didn't say that much
< 1570668438 335006 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee07-58.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570669508 402632 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570669540 659622 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570669572 166325 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee07-58.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570673635 401129 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570673819 971254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1570678912 398766 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570678917 87407 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570678993 474009 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570682733 513030 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1003:8fa3:0:14:f9c6:f201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570683423 314877 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1570683870 737998 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570683894 333467 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570685189 597205 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570685260 980391 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1570685857 636794 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:34f0:6daa:b957:29ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570686663 426854 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570687143 358611 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1570687770 753931 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570687797 563510 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570688247 537755 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570689160 665792 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1570690393 715372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-talk/
< 1570690394 753867 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-talk/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale
< 1570690444 893807 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1570690656 427953 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sorry, no olist yet
< 1570690668 820114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that will arrive soon too
< 1570690728 156641 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i get on a list
< 1570691218 54655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with `` echo kmc >> bin/nameoflist
< 1570691249 415871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or these days, you can use `` echo $IRC_NICK >> bin/nameoflist
< 1570691256 462961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone made a specific command, hm...
< 1570691269 193425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: very convenient
< 1570691327 257063 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $IRC_NICK
< 1570691327 976761 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc
< 1570691341 730631 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $IRC_NICK >> bin/pbflist
< 1570691343 726413 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1570691715 390342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you may also review our selection of other lists
< 1570691727 726862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd bin; echo *list
< 1570691728 464671 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFlist aglist bardsworthlist bobadventureslist calesyta2016list danddreclist don'taskdon'ttelllist dontaskdonttelllist ehlist emptylist erflist flist idealist ioccclist keenlist list listlist llist makelist makelistlist minimalist mlist olist pbflist slist smlist stylist testlist xkcdwhatiflist ysaclist
< 1570691860 583997 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i supposed to run listlist when i update a list?
< 1570691875 117605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd bin; wc -l *list | sort -rn | head -n9 # these are the popular ones
< 1570691875 935618 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​  86 total \    9 slist \    8 pbflist \    8 olist \    6 smlist \    4 xkcdwhatiflist \    4 listlist \    4 dontaskdonttelllist \    4 don'taskdon'ttelllist
< 1570691887 538447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste < bin/ioccclist
< 1570691889 668048 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.10575
< 1570691929 487433 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is... a bizarre way to do that
< 1570691929 574712 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ioccclist
< 1570691930 724550 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news
< 1570691982 900129 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is ${@:+ }$@
< 1570692038 297553 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo rain2 >> bin/ioccclist
< 1570692040 43286 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1570692041 570678 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo rain1 >> bin/ioccclist
< 1570692043 243186 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1570692063 65821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: prints its argument, with a colon before if it's not empty
< 1570692063 948895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : `` paste < bin/ioccclist <-- paste takes a filename, which has the advantage of using its url if it's exposed to web
< 1570692074 393123 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1570692097 546956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so we can invoke lists with an argument that is a url pointing to the news
< 1570692126 12115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :o is numbered in a regular way, so there we use a strip number instead and the olist script makes a url from that
< 1570692137 806411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for most lists we use a full url
< 1570692302 30951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the olist script makes a url
< 1570692332 786782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm true, it doesn't
< 1570692378 436319 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/empty/present/
< 1570692396 967799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually visits the archive page first, anyhow, to see the title and check if he's missed one

< 1570692399 741100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I think
< 1570692407 118001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how @ works in such a case really
< 1570692452 678846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually visit the archive page to re-read the previous strip before reading the current one. I don't usually miss an o, except when on a long vacation
< 1570692528 113147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I'm the one who first lists them half of the time
< 1570693951 427172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-70.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1570694379 688658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transceternal14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66595 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11850) 10Create a new language
> 1570694473 255253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66596&oldid=66513 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10Add a new language to the language list
> 1570694490 291093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66597&oldid=66037 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10
> 1570694593 355496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transceternal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66598&oldid=66595 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+6) 10
< 1570694640 659299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. http://blog.hackensplat.com/2011/02/vinegar.html
> 1570695615 485942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transceternal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66599&oldid=66598 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+24) 10
> 1570696942 116840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transceternal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66600&oldid=66599 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+5) 10
< 1570697664 927056 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570698316 546984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1570698984 685765 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","quotes";@A=<$I>;$l=$A[rand@A]; while($l=~/([A-Za-z])/g){ $f{lc$1}++;$g{lc$1}//=$_g++; } $p=join("",sort{$f{$b}<=>$f{$a}||$g{$b}<=>$f{$a}}"a".."z"); $q="etoainsrlhdumcgypfwbkvzjxq"; eval"\$l=~y/$p\U$p\E/$q\U$q/"; print $l;
< 1570698985 360615 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Yar... COG et eo rdeai.   :(   Et eo tsmeai?
< 1570699011 93137 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","quotes";@A=<$I>;$l=$A[rand@A]; while($l=~/([A-Za-z])/g){ $f{lc$1}++;$g{lc$1}//=$_g++; } $p=join("",sort{$f{$b}<=>$f{$a}||$g{$b}<=>$f{$a}}"a".."z"); $q="etoainsrlhdumcgypfwbkvzjxq"; eval"\$l=~y/$p\U$p\E/$q\U$q/"; print $l;
< 1570699011 756828 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :OA EOAEW URNEIAUNOMEA DAOMEITDW (CH SOE AUKOT CHA):  Th fuaa oyl adi tylroettea, sutt et purtyl otn, hsei soe Cern otn mhrrog BHAFEIT. Gegidtten teotn sd sei Pdliei Lonrei!
< 1570699036 330366 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: ^ random quote transformed by a substitution cipher where the most frequent letter is replaced by "e", the second most frequent by "t", etc
< 1570699070 546306 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some longer quotes with reasonable words, it will get the most frequent letters right, so it does the easy part of solving the cipher for you
< 1570699072 215998 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","quotes";@A=<$I>;$l=$A[rand@A]; while($l=~/([A-Za-z])/g){ $f{lc$1}++;$g{lc$1}//=$_g++; } $p=join("",sort{$f{$b}<=>$f{$a}||$g{$b}<=>$f{$a}}"a".."z"); $q="etoainsrlhdumcgypfwbkvzjxq"; eval"\$l=~y/$p\U$p\E/$q\U$q/"; print $l;
< 1570699072 969039 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Fseoaid_Siiytn: Hio'a gt oerap; st'r e mloeauc, oia e dlnhtntn.
< 1570699075 477127 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","quotes";@A=<$I>;$l=$A[rand@A]; while($l=~/([A-Za-z])/g){ $f{lc$1}++;$g{lc$1}//=$_g++; } $p=join("",sort{$f{$b}<=>$f{$a}||$g{$b}<=>$f{$a}}"a".."z"); $q="etoainsrlhdumcgypfwbkvzjxq"; eval"\$l=~y/$p\U$p\E/$q\U$q/"; print $l;
< 1570699076 104795 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 22:55 < jpl> Usk tr E ibhhsiof ns fomodsh ispnktlo ea Uticodd ep E wta'n omoa  hlohtlo rz hlsgowni ea BRD?! En ioori deco ta erhsiiexdo ntic.   UTUT [...]  nuei ei trtveay, deco rooneay t Rslrsa sl isronueay
< 1570699103 863676 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","quotes";@A=<$I>;$l=$A[rand@A]; while($l=~/([A-Za-z])/g){ $f{lc$1}++;$g{lc$1}//=$_g++; } $p=join("",sort{$f{$b}<=>$f{$a}||$g{$b}<=>$f{$a}}"a".."z"); $q="etoainsrlhdumcgypfwbkvzjxq"; eval"\$l=~y/$p\U$p\E/$q\U$q/"; print $l;
< 1570699104 536474 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Ot's doke uatreuatofoais, yrele tre ievt steh ph wlnu "tlozoad" os "nhei lesealfr jpestoni".   "Inhe... In...Tros hlnmdeu fai't me bnie AT ADD. Tros nie--uagme, mpt nidg yotr tyn gaks aib a srelha. ..."
< 1570699130 560584 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: hmm, I wonder how different it would look if you did it digramwise
< 1570699153 346955 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's trickier because each symbol can be in two digrams
< 1570699153 536803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm #esoteric-spam
< 1570699157 663376 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you could do a better solver, but I'd add different heuristics, like matching nicks and other common words
< 1570699251 62991 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q 134
< 1570699251 770854 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :134)  It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question".   "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..."
< 1570699258 654805 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the last quote it gave
< 1570699275 557158 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it got e, t, s, a right
< 1570699457 448447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we have a genuine password of the month candidate: https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2019/10/ken-thompson-s-unix-password.html
< 1570699482 603275 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have one, though
< 1570699571 97914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm posting the link, not changing the potm entry
< 1570699599 332679 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's not necessarily for this month, since the passwords are old too
< 1570699609 246652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it's worth clarifying the point, thanks!)
< 1570699655 644933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of interesting that this wasn't in common word lists... it will be from now on :)
< 1570699670 549719 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that goes for all chess moves)
< 1570699727 41089 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, password reuse exists, so we add known passwords to lists
< 1570699748 909386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the exclamation mark is funny)
< 1570700017 968288 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I'm reminded of Countercall
< 1570700960 430891 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: might help that it used a notation that's AIUI not in common use anymore (re not being in wordlists)
< 1570701491 119306 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FaeFly: sure. "algebraic" notation won
< 1570701550 342784 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FaeFly: But I'm not a chess player and I've encountered this notation before so I'm assuming that at least 10s of thousands people know it :P
< 1570701615 782140 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod*
< 1570702027 149571 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, Lewis Caroll made sure we all meet the obsolete notation
< 1570702120 864687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that. Though one can enjoy the book without deciphering the chess game (I certainly didn't).
< 1570702147 462548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "did"? Hrm. Grammar.
< 1570702181 960065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"did" is better, referring to the whole "enjoying the book without deciphering the chess game" notion.
< 1570702192 564961 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: istr the chess game itself is hard to decipher, because we don't see all its moves...
< 1570702204 481920 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a question on Stack Exchange about that somewhere
< 1570702219 681082 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if it was on Chess SE or Sci Fi SE or the new Lit SE
< 1570702227 564887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570702282 935339 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/26946/4918
< 1570702290 479160 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chess game in Through the Looking Glass
< 1570702377 852397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a relief. :)
< 1570702401 531390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was kind of afraid of there being a sensible game hiding underneath all the silliness.)
< 1570702462 626643 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose this is a bit like searching for the real question when pondering HHGttG.
< 1570702482 355951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or worse, coming up with an explanation involving base 13)
< 1570704902 608198 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570705304 985536 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570706960 738200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BareMinimum14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66601&oldid=61572 5* 03Joshop 5* (+243) 10Added some "useful subexpressions".
> 1570707041 16364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BareMinimum14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66602&oldid=66601 5* 03Joshop 5* (-2) 10
< 1570708997 510779 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit!
< 1570709298 811729 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Quit: rip
< 1570709405 379387 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570709416 12841 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570717874 890926 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570719224 674689 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -cprint(0.0254/4) # how much is 1/4 inch?
< 1570719225 511348 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.00635
< 1570720133 148269 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? stunlock
< 1570720134 197382 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :stunlock? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1570720175 4564 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1570720190 10291 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570720258 108514 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how many of the sides of a square is one of the longest sides?
< 1570720258 339216 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: it would be sorta pointless to implement these commands, because they're in scope down the whole campbell/ darcs/ schemd5?".
< 1570721907 12553 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570722052 700241 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570722095 550076 :sleepnap!~thomas@d14-69-163-248.try.wideopenwest.com PART :#esoteric
< 1570722201 356685 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -cprint(3**5)
< 1570722202 20816 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :243
< 1570722218 534810 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570722241 391525 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570722246 965160 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570722339 871138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570722956 41448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can make a list with makelist, which automatically runs listlist.
< 1570722982 590159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that's makelistlist.
< 1570723000 264090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :listlist just lists lists.
< 1570723013 4906 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`listlist
< 1570723013 860715 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFlist* \ aglist* \ bardsworthlist* \ bobadventureslist* \ calesyta2016list* \ danddreclist* \ don'taskdon'ttelllist@ \ dontaskdonttelllist* \ ehlist* \ emptylist* \ erflist* \ flist* \ idealist* \ ioccclist* \ keenlist* \ list* \ listen* \ listlist* \ llist* \ makelist* \ makelistlist* \ minimalist* \ mlist* \ olist* \ pbflist* \ slist* \ smlist* \ stylist* \ testlist* \ xkcdwhatiflist* \ ysaclist*
< 1570723051 980902 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a version that only lists lists that don't appear in themselves?
< 1570723575 424747 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570723735 99549 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570726025 303629 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570726217 15308 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570727684 245231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570732064 588662 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570732419 297833 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570732677 33839 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570733850 529940 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1003:8fa3:0:14:f9c6:f201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570733850 609735 :AndroUser!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1003:8fa3:0:14:f9c6:f201 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570736321 593583 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570736920 615780 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1570736939 764884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BCDFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66603&oldid=34211 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+1110) 10Some example code.
< 1570736984 432984 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570737038 418305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66604&oldid=66404 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+174) 10Add BCDFuck
< 1570737103 596925 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
> 1570737105 778703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66605&oldid=66604 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+2) 10mutter
< 1570739840 953090 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7db5:e327:d7b:89b7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1570740157 488611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MatthewS 5*  10New user account
> 1570740403 176235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Matthew 5*  10New user account
< 1570740741 232970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? keenlist
< 1570740742 227648 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
< 1570740889 557141 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that one is a bit silly
< 1570742151 527775 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9ab:bf87:79eb:c28d JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570742459 543372 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9ab:bf87:79eb:c28d QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570742545 965968 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9ab:bf87:79eb:c28d JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570744778 519585 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2542:77a1:de01:1799 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570744967 966732 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9ab:bf87:79eb:c28d QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1570745223 612236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that in Cats, the character that Gus used to play is not called "Firefoefiddle", he's called "Firefrorefiddle",
< 1570745235 508628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that "frore" is a word that means cold.
< 1570745256 445475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange that I hadn't met that before. if there's such a fancy word for cold, then why is it not used in D&D and other role-playing games?
< 1570745264 289203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, for spells that invoke the elemental cold
< 1570745342 832295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even M:tG doesn't have that in any card title
< 1570745363 456813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in Eliot's poem, _Gus: The Theatre Cat_?
< 1570745373 976773 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but more so in the musical
< 1570745446 167883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rare word, it's not in my Longman dictionary, only the larger Oxford
< 1570745477 412505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, M:tG uses such rare words, and there was a whole Coldsnap set, so it's weird
< 1570745679 392818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefrorefiddle the Fiend of the Fell must have had abilities affecting three D&D elements: fire, cold, and sonic.
< 1570746122 641586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly. I'd thought about homogeneous coordinates algebraically, but never geometrically.
< 1570746136 479082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation is just obviously rotation around a point at infinity.
< 1570746390 892580 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570747031 920247 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm rotations in P(V) around points on an affine map correspond to (some) rotations in V conjugated by a shear, and translations correspond to shears so probably together they unify somehow, though that’s not obvious to me
< 1570747065 400627 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570747079 94138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the intuition seems right to me too
< 1570747150 659293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all shears of course, too, they all should be in a special relation with a hyperplane which defines that chosen affine map
< 1570747314 751538 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm let me talk about two strange coincedences in math and then I’ll go sleeping
< 1570747382 476646 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2542:77a1:de01:1799 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570747678 659412 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. a translation is uniquely characterized by one of each initial and final points; a similarity transformation, a pair of each; an affine transformation, a triple; a projective one, a quadruple. I don’t know if there exists something more or less natural for which we need a quintuple. Is there any system in this sequence? I’m afraid no, it’s just some very well-known transformation groups so it seems like a coincidence they arrang
< 1570747678 762753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :e this way
< 1570747749 404352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently reading https://slides.com/enkimute/siggraph which talks about all sorts of neat things.
< 1570747775 802562 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. map sin [0, pi/6, pi/4, pi/3, pi/2] == map (λx. sqrt x / 2) [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
< 1570747803 478291 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, I’ll take a look tomorrow, then
< 1570747848 577956 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second coincidence is confusing but happily mnemonic
< 1570747972 233946 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ooohh!! this is applied Clifford algebra! I hope those slides have that conformal thing explained, why it’s done that way
< 1570748029 84370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sure, a projective transformation in d dimensions is characterized by d+2 points, so for five points you want projective transformations in 3 dimensions. 
< 1570748063 82758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I worked with those in my last job, where at least one project involved 3D reconstruction from 2D camera images
< 1570748070 384960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, yes, I forgot it all stands only for a 3-dimensional space
< 1570748091 256231 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have looked at an arbitrary dimension case
< 1570748097 963609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly there we have use or two degrees of freedom less than a full projective transformation
< 1570748102 520500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the sequence crumbles
< 1570748189 576181 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1570748203 39351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's food that crumbles
< 1570748340 167994 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a while ago I found out there is a common confusion of homogeneous coordinates and, well, unhomogeneous coordinates concerning a use case when we use […, 0] for representing vectors and […, 1] for representing points. This system plays out very nicely but is commonly misattributed to projective stuff when it’s not
< 1570748371 784318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may call the non-homogeneous coordinates euclidean
< 1570748463 201938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :This system plays out very nicely => like, if there were only linear operations and the result has form […, 1] or […, 0], then we’ve done a correct affine calculation and the result is corresp. a point or a vector
< 1570748550 377599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: generally we don’t need the overall space to be euclidean, though for simplicity we can take one
< 1570748706 18690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t even remember what it should have in general so our points and vectors represented in this way have euclidean structure, the overall thing should be invariant under shears with some special hyperplane fixed
< 1570748749 567023 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think it gives rise to something Galileian, like the structure of the nonrelativistic spacetime
< 1570748807 400325 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though even that is too much, we’re concerned with two hyperplanes only, not distances between any of them
< 1570749016 228523 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I’m often interested in ways how can we omit the structure we don’t use in some contexts
< 1570749266 916286 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570749416 435144 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
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< 1570749936 305810 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1570751078 538309 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71ee:8451:75e9:1592 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570751395 647182 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570751516 71766 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1003:8fa3:0:14:f9c6:f201 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570751570 883441 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570751585 337923 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570751869 896673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, please publish the next o strip
< 1570751870 28927 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i've never read a paper on using source-to-source transformations to compile scheme to c.
< 1570751890 206193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that Sgeo_'s job?
< 1570751906 82140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a suspiciously specific denial, fungot
< 1570751906 237885 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you subtracted twice the orig value?' as ' swiping blindly'? yes, but
< 1570752232 267906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, is Countercall turing-complete? can you give the main idea of the proof or disproof?
< 1570752232 355342 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: do you think? i mean suing them?)
< 1570752415 761514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof by lawsuit, one of the more general-purpose classes of proofs.
< 1570752598 559429 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dc99:a94e:e807:7be9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570752911 537262 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dc99:a94e:e807:7be9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570753594 401179 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1570753658 928468 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570754462 669992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570755834 794784 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1570759424 519203 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dc99:a94e:e807:7be9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1570763697 898046 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570763909 580521 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1570764319 979484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66606&oldid=66476 5* 03Matthew 5* (+134) 10/* Introductions */
> 1570764365 781516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66607&oldid=66606 5* 03Matthew 5* (+10) 10/* Introductions */
> 1570764760 725842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Matthew14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66608 5* 03Matthew 5* (+127) 10Created page with "Hello and welcome to my user page. I have created the following esoteric languages (a very expansive list I know): [[Rouedeux]]"
< 1570764764 538543 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:a955:b680:ec76:650a JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570765010 244673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Matthew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66609&oldid=66608 5* 03Matthew 5* (+1) 10
< 1570765040 525165 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:a955:b680:ec76:650a QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570765331 711218 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570765469 587132 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570765469 921974 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570765953 360780 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570766957 527653 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:88e7:2555:a8c2:2283 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570767037 525045 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570767263 520996 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:88e7:2555:a8c2:2283 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570767341 540891 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1570767644 436286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Matthew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66610&oldid=66609 5* 03Matthew 5* (+14) 10
> 1570768055 304986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66611 5* 03Matthew 5* (+2327) 10Created page with "'''Rouedoux''' (pronounced roo-doo) is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Matthew]] in October 2019. The name Rouedeux is composed of the French words ''roue''..."
> 1570768108 997832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66612&oldid=66611 5* 03Matthew 5* (-3) 10
> 1570768347 686751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66613&oldid=66612 5* 03Matthew 5* (+142) 10
> 1570768360 569551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66614&oldid=66613 5* 03Matthew 5* (+1) 10
> 1570768412 281410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Rouedeux14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66615 5* 03Matthew 5* (+131) 10``
< 1570768478 596137 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szecteanbajixceu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570769238 525130 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570769279 23985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66616&oldid=66325 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+72) 10/* Factorial */
< 1570769419 381439 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570769450 363862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66617&oldid=66616 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+55) 10/* Example Programs */
< 1570769569 274609 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570772920 546166 :rodgort`!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570773275 576179 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1570774381 597401 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570774814 947664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66618&oldid=66596 5* 03Matthew 5* (+15) 10
< 1570775746 373613 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1570776259 55891 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szecteanbajixceu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
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< 1570776820 724974 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
> 1570777176 146078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66619&oldid=66617 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+56) 10
< 1570777311 835533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's such a thing as a fake Foucault pendulum, which looks like a real Foucault pendulum but is somehow rigged so that the plane of its swing remains fixed
< 1570777871 678182 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570777896 327443 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570778028 408467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that Black Hat from xkcd could secretly modify an existing Foucault pendulum in a public space to one, using his stealth carpentry skills
< 1570778787 513349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a plan
< 1570778834 356112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you're at it, how about making it turn at the right speed but in the wrong direction
< 1570778919 675419 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, apparently, would be counterclockwise for the northern hemisphere...
< 1570779006 486920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewed from above
< 1570779606 340483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I thought of that, but I think making it not rotate would be better, because it would look like the Aristotelean or flat earth myths are true
< 1570779630 732295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to control a pendulum in a way finer than that, you want to use it for divination, rather than as a Foucault pendulum
< 1570779682 342606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could try to be subtle and make it turn in the correct direction but just slightly faster than it should
< 1570779691 704306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see how long it takes until it's detected
< 1570779762 825183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think making it not turn at all would be the easiest to achieve technologically
< 1570779852 224167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-7.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570786137 189938 :uplime!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in
< 1570786399 165443 :uplime!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570786505 426074 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570786530 134051 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1570786599 984617 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1570786701 540378 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570786762 993992 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1570786881 156527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1570787681 335598 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570787820 907110 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.linusakesson.net/ seems like an interesting homepage with some esolang content. https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php is an esoteric language for example
< 1570788130 763012 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^
< 1570789020 529133 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/gcr-decoding/index.php contains a rather crazy use of one of the undocumented opcodes of 6502
< 1570789622 932204 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, lft does cool demoscene stuffs
< 1570789935 535016 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570791348 689663 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tjufydtruyafdflz QUIT :Quit: 30 day idle timeout.
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< 1570793539 857583 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ethippkzikzomyin QUIT :Quit: 30 day idle timeout.
< 1570794140 577931 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1570808627 706008 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570808744 826513 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1570808744 944543 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570808995 513146 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570809985 968314 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdrhteaifvetdejb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570813855 506453 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570814811 808140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570815201 315033 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570815217 573362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66620&oldid=66614 5* 03Matthew 5* (-1) 10/* Program that prints the alphabet */
> 1570815268 347852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66621&oldid=66620 5* 03Matthew 5* (-33) 10/* Language overview */
> 1570815438 477930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66622&oldid=66621 5* 03Matthew 5* (+0) 10/* CAT program */
> 1570815764 774496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66623&oldid=66622 5* 03Matthew 5* (+199) 10/* Language overview */
< 1570818021 104944 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1570821987 660975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how much is 14*16?
< 1570821987 806325 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i can't say for sure. :) i was student, ta, and phd student, though i don't do that
< 1570822006 974488 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a rather coherent response.
< 1570822030 832417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to ask some other bot
< 1570822033 674390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 14*16
< 1570822034 414445 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 224
< 1570822178 349064 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can you do basic multiplication?
< 1570822178 577210 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: i just remembered what esoteric programming is all about assumptions that the implementation features a srfi, be it cl or scheme. shivers is not interested in
< 1570822190 611337 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know.
< 1570822663 686272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, among the Sun's energy output, how much comes in the form of neutrinos?
< 1570822663 773096 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh... nice.
< 1570822688 653084 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: answer b_jonas' question.
< 1570822688 785381 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: i did most of it has been fiz who has scared off most visitors.
< 1570822949 775703 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/TerribleFairCells
< 1570822956 8224 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this appears quite legible.
< 1570822986 835681 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like smalltalk.
> 1570823099 351997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66624&oldid=66623 5* 03Matthew 5* (+46) 10/* Commands */
< 1570823141 763408 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdrhteaifvetdejb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1570825443 974537 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570825529 546436 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570825724 51813 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570827000 834912 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1570827023 598789 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570827071 894141 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570827490 120609 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know I've scared anyone off. :/
< 1570827527 855056 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that you have.
< 1570827543 954085 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is full of shit.
< 1570827544 88253 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: not because the language evolved faster than the interpreted schemes which was kinda disappointing speed-wise.
< 1570827566 183297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out that was more or less a literal quote from 2003.
< 1570827578 511745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2003-01-20 23:36:53] <@DiamonDie> i think it has been fiz who has scared off most visitors.
< 1570827586 110798 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :from an op no less?
< 1570827608 392248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, on that channel all the regulars were ops.
< 1570827659 94523 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngl imode's made me ambivalent on staying
< 1570827732 395560 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody-being-an-op is easily ruined by the one bad egg that bans people at the drop of a hat.
< 1570827778 415690 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be in a channel for a local hacker space. the youngest got angry in a discussion about C and banned 18 people.
< 1570827826 478042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was a 10-person social channel, not really for any particular topic. Those don't really have moderation issues so much.
< 1570827836 497523 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense.
< 1570827864 518174 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: those slides mention “homogeneous coordinates” too in introductory examples :( if they were homogeneous, vectors with coordinates (1, 2, 3, 0) and (2, 4, 6, 0) would coincide but they should not. These are usual coordinates in (dimension + 1)
< 1570827895 340479 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that misattribution isn’t mentioned in the body
< 1570827917 466257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other way than everybody-being-an-op would be nobody-being-an-op is better than everybody-being-an-op, I think.
< 1570827970 420467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty easy state to get to by accident on IRCnet, so I'm sure we spent some time like that too.
< 1570827976 355777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No services.)
< 1570827996 325147 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody can yell at eachother and nobody can do anything about it.
< 1570828027 23816 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like twitter!
< 1570828071 921307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not true nobody can do anything about it; you can add filters into the client if you want to avoid receiving some messages.
< 1570828099 299718 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true. I have to wonder what the potential partitioning would be for a really busy and hostile chat room.
< 1570828132 97012 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e take 100 people, throw them in a chat room without moderators, see who ignores who. you'll probably end up looking like two or more "logical" rooms.
< 1570828160 925979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I don't know.
< 1570828196 292608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mainly, I don't know, because I haven't tried having 100 people in a chat room without moderators)
< 1570828228 787704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although IRCnet ircd 2.11 got a "reop mode" feature, where you can set +R nick!user@host masks with the usual wildcards, with the semantics that if the channel has been opless for a while, the server grants ops for a pseudorandomly selected user matching any of those masks.)
< 1570828248 178084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think there was also a no-ops-ever channel type? Might be misremembering that.)
< 1570828291 581822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, some IRC servers if the channel prefix is + then it can have no modes (inclduing no operators).
< 1570828329 722427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also & for a channel local to the server and ! with a feature to avoid taking over channels when net split.
< 1570828356 377636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The + and & types are also immune to taking over channels, but for other reasons.)
< 1570829055 321398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Oh, now I see what you meant.
< 1570829086 477422 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, yesterday I completely forgot to mention this simple breaking example
< 1570829512 139863 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we have instead is just some hyperplane L “inhabited by vectors” and its shift, L + a where a is nonzero, “inhabited by points”; then obviously we can’t add two points and get a point, but we can take their linear combinations with total weight 1 (and get a point) or 0 (and get a vector), and also we can apply linear operators which take L to itself, on L + a such one acts as an affine operator, and on L it does as its lin
< 1570829512 261215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ear part, automatically. Now we may choose a basis in L and add a to it, so elements of L get coordinates (…, 0) and elements of L + a get (…, 1), voilà!
> 1570829692 931668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66625&oldid=66624 5* 03Matthew 5* (-5) 10/* Commands */
< 1570830167 469427 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we can make a silly groupoid on two objects from two parallel affine subspaces, taking morphisms between them be various translations from one to the other. When the outer space has no inner product, there are no natural translations so this is naturally a groupoid and not a group
< 1570830345 358915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and these translations themselves constitute two isomorphic affine spaces)
> 1570830367 697410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66626&oldid=66625 5* 03Matthew 5* (+757) 10/* Examples */
< 1570830471 481849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :isomorphic, but not naturally, to two starting subspaces, but naturally isomorphic (via f ↦ f⁻¹) with each other
> 1570830745 414206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66627&oldid=66626 5* 03Matthew 5* (-21) 10/* Hello world program */
> 1570831573 946780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66628&oldid=58468 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+1) 10
> 1570834637 590791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66629&oldid=66627 5* 03Matthew 5* (+1129) 10/* If statement */
< 1570834856 991082 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1570834968 743666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66630&oldid=66629 5* 03Matthew 5* (+212) 10/* Hello world program */
> 1570835431 995647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66631&oldid=66630 5* 03Matthew 5* (+6) 10/* Language overview */
> 1570835681 26644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rouedeux14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66632&oldid=66631 5* 03Matthew 5* (+151) 10/* Language overview */
< 1570836690 981747 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570836947 966420 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1570837120 823613 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1570839325 361933 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570839959 550260 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.166.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570839988 623929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GURPS, skills cost 4 points per level, and techniques cost 1 point per level. A technique improves your effective skill level for one use of the skill, but increasing the skill itself (for 4 points) improves your effective skill level for all uses of that skill. If you have many techniques, then it will cost too much points.
< 1570840029 755630 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I made up this variant rule:   techniquePoints = dotProduct x . reverse . sort where x = 1 : 1 : (half <$> x)
< 1570840050 390333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that mathematically it is better. Do you think that it is better?
< 1570840950 419431 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1570841776 568486 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570842065 522687 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570842602 872936 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570846610 918424 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570848271 536504 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570848578 536697 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1570849014 630476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66633&oldid=66619 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+1177) 10Added a whole bunch of Reg commands added since the table was last changed
> 1570849448 741836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66634&oldid=66633 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+3812) 10
< 1570850144 982653 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the list for Charlie the Unicorn?
< 1570850880 113568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not aware.
< 1570851923 384258 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570851960 687903 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1570852006 642419 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570852493 819643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone of Lizard Men {2} Artifact ;; {X}, {T}: You may put a Lizard or Viashino card with converted mana cost less than X from your hand into the battlefield. If you do, add one mana of any color.
< 1570852506 250332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a mana ability)
< 1570852631 778257 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570852907 868608 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570853055 524172 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any Haskell core library have a dot product function? (It is easy enough to implement; I am just wondering if it has already.)
< 1570855527 577545 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570855910 525149 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101d:56fc:0:14:fa7d:fb01 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1570856465 888663 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently BBC BASIC has a built-in dot product function.
< 1570857146 894667 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570859115 164355 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1570859116 871033 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why
< 1570859215 972071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-79.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570859885 419608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I think dot product can be a useful function in many programs, even with lists having arbitrary number of elements if they are not used as a vector, such as the code I mentioned above.
< 1570861027 640719 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, gah I have to think twice to realize why that isn't actually broken as far as I can tell
< 1570861067 763273 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I just meant in terms of net mana. It being mana ability speed is probably really really interesting
< 1570861518 447528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1570864665 750052 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1570865133 449428 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570865133 529605 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1570866010 2162 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570867018 598576 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zizgagfktlprkiqx JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570869008 599415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Kvikkalkul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66635&oldid=8365 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+292) 10/* I think I shall add grammar and several descriptions but */ new section
< 1570872870 911590 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570875683 601798 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570876337 584919 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570876803 359672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? log
< 1570876804 371585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? logs
< 1570876810 515395 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1570876811 321039 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
> 1570876978 838170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66636&oldid=65802 5* 03B jonas 5* (+109) 10/* #Esoteric */
< 1570877059 966991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` sed -i '1s"$" https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/"' wisdom/log
< 1570877061 792967 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/log//#esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/
< 1570877096 184408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon we'll have so many webpages with logs that they won't fit in the topic
< 1570877212 860020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(soon as in https://www.xkcd.com/605/ )
< 1570878884 822502 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570878913 300934 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter that the channel might be dead for half a day and only a few people reach it constantly
< 1570878923 764682 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have a dozen of log copies, this is what matters
< 1570878942 236339 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any turing complete, interesting and not-so-hard to implement languages out therE?
< 1570878954 195302 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kept mashing random page button for around 15 minutes, nothing interesting so fafr
< 1570879004 98244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: are you familiar with all of the Big Five?
< 1570879015 138642 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big Five?
< 1570879016 825504 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this
< 1570879022 970279 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I know what it represents
< 1570879027 431526 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't heard the name yet
< 1570879053 616762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes like, Intercal, Malbolge, Befunge, Unlambda, Underload
< 1570879057 49093 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, additional points if the source looks gibberish
< 1570879063 961685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :five famous esoteric programming languages
< 1570879066 581049 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I've heard bout them
< 1570879074 814586 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Brainfuck though, have you missed something?
< 1570879082 995793 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've programmed in every single one except Underload
< 1570879085 609154 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what's this
< 1570879092 602651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, must be brainfuck instead of Malbolge
< 1570879104 490654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intercal, Brainfuck, Befunge, Unlambda, Underload
< 1570879107 203917 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes way more sense
< 1570879149 964571 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is quite hard one
< 1570879153 629109 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is too popular
< 1570879160 178898 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal is very verbose
< 1570879172 580060 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda is functonal
< 1570879178 9996 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't heard about Underload
< 1570879183 279555 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about rolling my own esolang
< 1570879192 860798 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really have an idea how to do that
< 1570879217 85015 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emmental seems like a really cool language though
< 1570880666 349657 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1570881063 549894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized. Not only can we no longer refer to printed phonebooks when explaining algorithms on sorted arrays, we now also can't refer to electromechanical washing machines to explain multiple entry points to a subroutine.
< 1570883435 864541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :will we have difficulties to explain multiplication to the next generation because they will be buying everything pre-packaged and nothing of which you can freely choose a quantity and has a price per unit weight?
< 1570883487 867392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :will we have difficulty explaining Eucliean coordinates because they haven't seen the index of a map refering to map grid squares?
> 1570883582 961207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainCrash14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66637&oldid=64733 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+19) 10/* Features */
< 1570887507 987372 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2514:b596:5fe5:64ce JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570887683 965768 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:bdf3:f23c:64c2:561c QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1570890994 380169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous OotS strip was published over 18 days ago. please upload the next one, fungot
< 1570890994 545011 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1/(sqrt(2)-1) ( fnord) as modulus, 216 as fnord, fnord, fnord
< 1570891066 915413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we usually write that as sqrt(2)+1, but sure
< 1570891607 28526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon they'll take as long to upload as they take to read
< 1570893908 274345 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570894996 965350 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570895197 340899 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1570895202 526370 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570897470 255316 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570897899 745745 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unlambda is functonal => why does it look like a bad thing?
< 1570898074 353158 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW there is another side to “functional languages”, going from combinators and no variables (and composition) to defining equations and variables (and composition), on that way you could have reinvented https://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%B2
< 1570898157 88108 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing definitions makes writing nontrivial code a bit less hard
> 1570898621 42527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arseniiv14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66638&oldid=63723 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+176) 10I think in the end we should have this draft linked to from my userpage
< 1570900537 269516 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:100f:9b53:0:14:fb3b:b101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570901579 575472 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:100f:9b53:0:14:fb3b:b101 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570901679 921598 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570901865 595447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570903992 48266 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:100f:9b53:0:14:fb3b:b101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570904157 978178 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570904231 533472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv_: hmm, that article should mention "lazy" somewhere
< 1570904256 430516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in evaluation order
< 1570904554 841147 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 NICK :arseniiv
< 1570904594 827957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strict, as it may be, for it makes a difference
< 1570904627 313447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hm doesn’t it? I’ll look at it
< 1570904755 664674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "currying" too, because without currying, you need some extra builtins for conditionals and for data storage
< 1570904774 850772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in an if-else, cons, (), null, car, cdr
< 1570904785 690098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Overall evalution strategy is call-by-need, unless a modification (for example, to allow full IO) has something like Haskell’s `seq` or `$!`.
< 1570904787 566782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:43: error: parse error on input ‘,’
< 1570904791 976155 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specified!
< 1570904805 200222 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I never learn
< 1570904809 293906 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack
< 1570904809 389396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1570904869 776055 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and "currying" too => hm I did thought it’s obvious these definitions result in functions that can be partially applicated
> 1570904941 653663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Falsebrain9Q+Fishload14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66639&oldid=58343 5* 03AnimaLibera 5* (+3) 10
> 1570904970 425707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Falsebrain9Q+Fishload14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66640&oldid=66639 5* 03AnimaLibera 5* (+1) 10
< 1570904975 629110 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll add some explanations, how better to name the section with them?
< 1570904990 927417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborations, I’d say
< 1570905074 376915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: "data storage" I think, for you need currying to be able to data other than from a limited alphabet of function names on the call stack
< 1570905122 774661 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode Ⅎ
< 1570905125 253595 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2132 TURNED CAPITAL F]
> 1570905137 518381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66641&oldid=66618 5* 03AnimaLibera 5* (+28) 10Adding Falsebrain9Q+Fishload
< 1570905175 327558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I wanted one section to explain about call-by-need meaning the same as lazy
< 1570905285 610975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep thinking of the strict non-curried version of this language
< 1570905407 804806 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be something akin to the original Backus article?
< 1570905412 685668 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ^
< 1570905461 785614 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he makes the first functional language, albet somewhat a clumsy one, given that it’s the first one
< 1570905570 376100 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC that’s 1977, “Can Programming Be Liberated from the von Neumann Style? A Functional Style and Its Algebra of Programs”. Hm pretty modern times. I thought from the time Lisp was invented it should have been earlier?..
< 1570905636 581163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: do you mean Backus's FP? because then no
< 1570905650 161536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I'm talking about still has named function arguments
< 1570905798 117950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Pointfree_programming has a link to that one, we don't have a separate page apparently
< 1570905880 397352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, the language I'm thinking of not only doesn't have currying, it doesn't even have functions as first class objects either. you can only use function names if you immediately call them. mind you, you can still program Backus's FP that way.
< 1570905889 636989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of.
< 1570905903 718909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly the same as Backus's FP
< 1570905928 407658 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the style you program in translates to that well, only you lose named function arguments then
< 1570906273 38551 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also translate it to a subset of Olvashato where you don't use lambdas
< 1570906317 690773 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all these cases you have named global functions that can be mutually recursive, which is sort of the distinctive feature
< 1570906343 239211 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe I shouldn’t elaborate on call-by-need there, it looks too long or too incomprehensible
< 1570906388 104559 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zizgagfktlprkiqx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1570906459 765651 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: interesting, and there also is no partial application, yes?
< 1570906560 455426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don’t think “currying” is a name for a well-defined language feature, it always confused me what it should mean, and I only see it viable as a name for the natural isomorphism from A×B→R to A→B→R
< 1570906648 6525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me check how Backus's FP worked again?
< 1570906651 861633 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got confused
< 1570906657 406128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it doesn't have named global functions
< 1570906693 143627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you can call it "partial application then, it doesn't matter too much that it's implemented by currying
< 1570906694 424728 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it means that we could write λxyz.A for λx.λy.λz.A and correspondingly f x y z = … for f x = let g y = let h z = … in h in g
< 1570906753 825623 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, Backus's FP is weirder
< 1570906755 406081 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: then I more or less understand what language you are describing
< 1570906761 969726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't have named global functions
< 1570906799 195456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: for the language I'm talking about, you still have a sequence of global function definitions, each one has a function name followed by named arguments on the left, and parenthisized function calls on the right
< 1570906833 340322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the right, each time you refer to a function, it must be called by all arguments, you can't pass around function pointers, whether partially applied or not
< 1570906834 626879 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570906840 230368 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the distinctive feature could be described thus: no partially applied function is an expression, this would formalize what it means that functions aren’t first class
< 1570906867 445218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get new builtins, namely if-else, which is the only way to not strictly evaluate all arguments,
< 1570906910 276284 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe case-of and pattern matching is better?
< 1570906910 542831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some builtins for creating data, namely at least nil and cons as data constructors, null and car and cdr as deconstructors,
< 1570906918 918676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ideally also some basic numeric stuff
< 1570906929 591418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no, that's not enough
< 1570906941 583351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you also can't use bare function names (without any argument applied) as an expression
< 1570906978 715789 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I understand, a bare name is partially applied too
< 1570906996 753359 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the base of olvashato and common lisp already work like that; they also have explicit way to manipulate first-class functions, but you can't do it as easily as mentioning a function name or partially applying anything
< 1570907038 969075 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vyliaftefvtfausi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570907100 892921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olvashato isn't quite like this even without the first-class functions, because olvashato has let and case which lets you create local bindings other than the parameters of the global function, and I don't want that
< 1570907111 701766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the syntax is different)
< 1570907511 174381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as for what I said earlier
< 1570907529 180374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"will we have difficulties to explain multiplication to the next generation because they will be buying everything pre-packaged and nothing of which you can freely choose a quantity and has a price per unit weight?" =>
< 1570907533 515005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this requires electric cars, 
< 1570907560 356149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think we're officially in the electric car future now, because this year's Nobel Prize is for electric cars
< 1570908121 225717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; some people will buy and sell stuff that you will have to freely choose a quantity, even if it is rare.
< 1570908221 334060 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, it will exist, I'm just positing that it won't be such an everyday thing that every eleven year old in school sees it and finds multiplication of real numbers a natural and commonly used operation because of that
< 1570908413 297274 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, multiplication would still be used with stuff other than buying and selling stuff.)
< 1570908415 635002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I go to the market today, I need to know a bit of cultural context to know which price tags are per kilogram and which ones are per unit, because it's hard to guess
< 1570908512 157943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think they ought to label if it is per kilogram or per unit. If it is prepackaged then it can be assumed as per unit if it doesn't say; if they are not pricing it per unit then they should not prepackage it.
< 1570908524 76581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most fruits and vegetables are sold by kilogram, but the ones that come with lots of leaves are sold by bunch or single root
< 1570908569 109605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but consider fruits: kohlrabi is per single root, but canteloupes and lemons and cabbage are per kilogram
< 1570908593 798151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemons and canteloupes and kohlrabi have a strong rind so they don't need pre-packaging
< 1570908607 671511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they aren't packaged, yet you could sell them either way
< 1570908621 434042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is OK, but they should label them as "per unit" or "per package". I did not say that per unit stuff should be prepackaged; only that prepackaged stuff should be priced per unit.
< 1570908672 176221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/per package/per kilogram/
< 1570908684 305913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemons of linear logistics
< 1570908702 194336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are even roots that are sold per bunch, which could count as pre-packaged, but it's sometimes not obvious to notice the strings that tie a few roots into bunches
< 1570908720 794072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens with carrots and radishes
< 1570908751 35831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, prepackaged stuff is sold by unit except in very rare cases that are clearly labeled
< 1570908775 172326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two sorts of exceptions:
< 1570908804 941434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is for pre-packaged cheese and the like that is sold by weight and the weight is measured in advance when packaging and written on a printed label and encoded in the bar code
< 1570908840 569041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is pre-packaged stuff sold in twos or threes, where you can still buy in single units but it becomes more expensive, and you can buy two or three of different kinds mixed and matched of the same price group
< 1570908841 463598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; in that case, you would print the price and weight on the label of the individual package.
< 1570908855 348512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the price is both per unit and per weight.
< 1570908856 350841 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no problem with packaged stuff
< 1570908866 967738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty is more with the non-packaged stuff
< 1570908890 121096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is OK that it is like that, since the label mentions the price.
< 1570908912 941158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With non-packaged stuff the label still should make it clear about the price.
< 1570908935 246697 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they don't specify, then, I think, it isn't very good.)
< 1570909161 522000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly many of the vendors do specify
< 1570909797 125671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they make the AD year numbering the way that it is for reasons having to do with leap years since it is not precise according to when Jesus is born?
> 1570910381 592920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66642&oldid=63105 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+2582) 10elaborations for somebody
< 1570910456 515164 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel warm
< 1570911469 294047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1570912061 518168 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have implemented turned F myself but I don’t remember in what language and where the project is, and also I’m pretty certain its code shouldn’t see the daylight. I probably will someday just write it from scratch in Python like with Punctree. I don’t like I write Python in a usual text editor without IDE hints but this language is pretty popular and you can easily run single files without any special manoeurs so that drives my hand
< 1570912071 954661 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or forces, or delays
< 1570912122 297239 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570912142 903581 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made a chess engine in Malbolge
< 1570912153 518084 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory it's decent
< 1570912157 705127 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has two drawbacks
< 1570912169 993556 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) It requires 31 and a half gigabytes of memory
< 1570912175 218091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1570912182 578323 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) it's quicker to count atoms in universe than to run it
< 1570912189 772106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1570912193 537327 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm certainly sure it works
< 1570912209 22923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^cont.) and of course I have implemented something like YE…A, even with some optimizations for functions constructed with simple recursion operator, in Ceylon but I didn’t make that human-readable and it wasn’t YE…A strictly speaking, but an interpreter for a DSL
< 1570912211 519727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you be sure? if it's so slow, how do you debug it?
< 1570912220 494211 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same generator that made this program
< 1570912225 496289 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has been tested to 100% coverage
< 1570912233 835998 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chess engine is just higher scale of the same thing
< 1570912238 525145 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: lol :D
< 1570912240 688248 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to work, eventually
< 1570912248 957274 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anyone interested
< 1570912249 817220 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/malbolge-chess
< 1570912258 408232 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 7z file unzips to 113 megabytes of malbolge
< 1570912267 298998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 gigabytes is solvable these days
< 1570912278 524850 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm equipped with just eight
< 1570912295 714177 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone willing to borrow 24G and a quantum computer?
< 1570912315 452350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quantum computer? what for?
< 1570912339 833554 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would hopefully speed up the process
< 1570912357 894241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... chess? how?
< 1570912360 947097 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quantum computer is able to solve "puzzles" that conventional computers aren't able to
< 1570912376 856672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzles maybe, but I don't think it helps for chess
< 1570912377 198019 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, it can break RSA encryption quite eaisly from what I've heard
< 1570912384 893477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sure
< 1570912397 292307 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't malbolge just a fancy encryption?
< 1570912422 188830 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've spent my entire day on writing a proof of concept in C, then translating it to assembly, and then stepping down to something 4004-like to finally produce the output
< 1570912438 111584 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a quite fun process
< 1570912448 136285 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonetheless
< 1570912461 4693 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: hm but your code should use its “features”, like a program can’t just start using SSE or what there is these times, without the programmer writing those instructions beforehand
< 1570912483 798497 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1570912488 314213 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter can be tweaked
< 1570912493 649372 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it runs smoother on quantum computers
< 1570912501 909698 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made once a SSE brainfuck interpreter, nothing is scary now
< 1570912510 747237 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1570912516 157353 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a tape, but of type __m64
< 1570912576 946959 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or __m512i
< 1570912596 634400 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing malbolge is quite hard process tho
< 1570912605 907158 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it correctly you'd have to know the assembler structure
< 1570912619 45515 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you can reverse it, is there any sense in simplifying the assembly down to malbolge?
< 1570913086 169909 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1570913275 837668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trick NSA to make the computation for you, by using encryption.
< 1570913445 232167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Did you see the Magic: the Gathering card I mentioned and that Sgeo__ wrote a comment?
< 1570913766 396856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, what card?
< 1570913770 677112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have "Frore" in its name
< 1570913788 735911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1570913810 616661 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone of Lizard Men
< 1570913823 902706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Yes.
< 1570913826 606356 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone of Lizard Men {2} Artifact ;; {X}, {T}: You may put a Lizard or Viashino card with converted mana cost less than X from your hand into the battlefield. If you do, add one mana of any color.
< 1570914069 430863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there are fewer lizards now, because cards like Imperiosaur have been patched to Dinosaurs
< 1570914124 612316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there still are some, including cards with changeling
< 1570914134 396035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1570914163 734096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can also use Artificial Evolution to alter which creature types this can be used with.)
< 1570914957 55296 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570916587 365090 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vyliaftefvtfausi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1570918102 117780 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the "backward" variant of scope (an Italian card game)? Someone showed me that variant, but I don't know if anyone else has written about it.
< 1570918469 424693 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, any ideas about what fun can be had by effectively summoning a creature at mana ability speed?
< 1570918626 295715 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then you can do it during a mana step, I suppose, which might sometimes allow you to play triggered abilities in a different order.
< 1570919162 838742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are also ways to play replacement effects during a mana step, even with only Vintage-legal cards. See http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.4 for one example.)
< 1570920167 297496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, that one doesn't have a replacement effect during the mana step, but with other cards it can be easy to see that it can still be done.)
< 1570921673 559406 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:100f:9b53:0:14:fb3b:b101 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570923151 410974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added a "Frequently Asked Questions" section in story I wrote (from the GURPS game), so, if you have a question, then I can add it, please.
< 1570923756 748432 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570923770 910547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.225 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570927683 555539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570928232 555769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66643&oldid=66634 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+25) 10/* Swap the words good and bad */
< 1570928661 765186 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1570930861 716789 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570930885 521354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I have made a chess engine in Malbolge   in theory it's decent   but it has two drawbacks   a) It requires 31 and a half gigabytes of memory   b) it's quicker to count atoms in universe than to run it
< 1570930887 203064 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1336)  I have made a chess engine in Malbolge   in theory it's decent   but it has two drawbacks   a) It requires 31 and a half gigabytes of memory   b) it's quicker to count atoms in universe than to run it
< 1570932041 42102 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :@message kspalaiologos care to share this mythical chess engine?
< 1570932041 121670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages?
< 1570932051 787127 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kspalaiologos care to share this mythical chess engine?
< 1570932051 829022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1570932659 897381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it was linked in the logs
< 1570932692 970027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read on Wikipedia about digital television captions, and they mention many things I have not seen in other TV sets
< 1570932703 999649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/malbolge-chess
> 1570935190 477372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cupid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66644&oldid=58294 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+29) 10Added Turing Complete tag
> 1570935229 652219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cupid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66645&oldid=66644 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+0) 10Fixed capitalisation on Turing complete category
< 1570938288 430801 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570938340 66547 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1570938343 599760 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570938373 276668 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570938424 899680 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570939201 502484 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
< 1570939354 63064 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570940760 787592 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1570943382 34252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been writing how I thought should be designed a television set. The digital caption setting menu includes service number 1-63, user override on/off, tag mask, enable flashing, maximum number of windows, font priority (user or broadcast), special effects on/off, auto switching services.
< 1570943553 900457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The analog caption setting menu includes service selection (CC1-CC4 and TEXT1-TEXT4), user override on/off, allow/disallow white background, minimum roll-up, enable flashing, enable buffering, alarm on/off, character set (EIA-608 or ASCII).
< 1570943768 899905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common caption setting menu can include: caption on mute, caption relative to either the picture or the screen, style submenu, status menu (can be used for debugging), caption recording. And then, there is also the caption scrollback feature, to review earlier captions. Do you think it is good enough?
< 1570951612 871209 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570952799 22340 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1005:7a6c:0:14:fc00:7a01 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570953118 583205 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570955148 706965 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570955296 109861 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570955582 884125 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6
< 1570955587 219822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice. Zach from SMBC advertises his book on http://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=2033
< 1570955650 979203 :Ancyleus!~Ancyleus@47.149.105.11 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570955761 234204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03YouTuringCompleteMe 5*  10New user account
< 1570956207 674778 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570956277 513645 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
> 1570956442 837786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66646&oldid=66607 5* 03YouTuringCompleteMe 5* (+275) 10/* Introductions */
< 1570957487 571245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1570957861 593866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.59.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1570959682 454528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66647&oldid=38929 5* 03A 5* (+124) 10/* Sample Program */
< 1570959724 753174 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1570960512 7361 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1570961572 323155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, somehow the styles of http://www.yihcomic.com/ and http://sssscomic.com/ are quite similar.
< 1570961817 658623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I tried to actually figure out the details of CDCL and other tricks a bit more.
< 1570961911 987130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like there are some basic things I'm confused about. I should probably implement the parts I understand to see if I become unconfused.
< 1570961950 938998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one thing that's not even related to CDCL:
< 1570962000 318685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you need to decide on a variable and you add a literal p to your assumptions, what do you do?
< 1570962043 877476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory you want to "delete" every clause that contains p and every literal ¬p from all the other clauses.
< 1570962060 147017 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you don't
< 1570962070 612830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two-watched-literal trick lets you only worry about some clauses that contain ¬p, hopefully a small subset.
< 1570962086 511467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need to worry about clauses that contain p at all or do you just ignore them?
< 1570962097 912511 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.234.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570962178 501103 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when processiong a clause you don't put it on another watched literal list if its next literal is already true, so this is part of the watched literal logic.
< 1570962239 73423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then when you backtrack you might add it to a watched literal list?
< 1570962269 700933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't touch the watched literal lists when you backtrack?
< 1570962273 849714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or backjump
< 1570962315 830009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's what I thought. But then I don't understand your previous sentence.
< 1570962336 920162 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you can just keep the clause on the list that you're processing
< 1570962372 181153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm actually
< 1570962378 137773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a large number of clauses is just irrelevant for you because you only ever find clauses through watch lists.
< 1570962380 248498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm confused
< 1570962546 443920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I got it right nevertheless. So... you go through the watch list of a literal l. If you encounter a clause that is already true in the current partial assignment (while looking for another literal that's currently unassigned), then you can keep the clause on the watch list for l, because whatever made the clause true is earlier on the trail than l.
< 1570962562 165374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the trail has a negated l)
< 1570962567 426017 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570962629 344552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning once the clause evaluation becomes unknown again, l will not be assigned, reestablishing the watched literal invariant (any clause with unknown truth value is on two watched literal lists)
< 1570962665 401417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the only way a bunch satisfied clauses hurt you is that a watch list might contain them and you might need to sift through them?
< 1570962676 433621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1570962702 293085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you might e.g. move them to the end of a watch list and possibly be able to stop looking through a watch list early.
< 1570962706 708861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a kind of laziness
< 1570962709 761561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm not sure a thing like that would actually work.
< 1570962727 575825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but a good kind because many clauses that become true will never be touched at all)
< 1570962767 307293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, but the ones that become true and are watched will just be inspected over and over because the watched literal will never move, unless you do something extra?
< 1570962817 166414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it's clever to move them to the literal that is true instead.
< 1570962832 407637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that makes sense.
< 1570962847 777342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(provided the clause is not on that watch list already)
< 1570962857 717429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even locate the true literal that's furthest away in the stack, so hopefully you don't see it for a long time.
< 1570962874 116104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... are you writing SAT solvers?
< 1570962882 932754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, the last thing I said doesn't make sense.
< 1570962917 411591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've been resisting the temptation for a long time. I think I can maintain this state :) Not sure about shachaf.
< 1570962980 80482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of my questions are about the actual typical operations/memory layout/etc. used by reasonable SAT solvers.
< 1570963005 595747 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.230.185 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570963024 20500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others are about clause learning, which seems like one of the most complicated parts of many modern solvers.
< 1570963024 376697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: But I know enough about the basics (DPLL, CDCL, a bit about heuristics) to be harmful.
< 1570963078 627700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a bit more about the verification side. (RUP, DRUP, RAT, DRAT)
< 1570963082 870177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.234.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570963170 961356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, UNSAT verification?
< 1570963181 781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know about how that works.
< 1570963290 72691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect understanding UNSAT certificates and understanding CDCL are pretty related?
< 1570963308 512199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no.
< 1570963320 354814 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570963329 594844 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.230.185 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570963341 302167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's interesting.
< 1570963401 969259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on a high level, certification works by maintaining a set of clauses (initially those of the problem) and adding and removing clauses with inferences that maintain satisficability. The last step derives the empty clause.
< 1570963496 717744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inference relies heavily on unit propagation though, so for efficiency, you end up with watched literals again.
< 1570963599 683768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, atched literals is a great trick.
< 1570963617 272493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should understand regular SAT solving first.
< 1570963684 418112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333612067_Efficient_Verified_UNSAT_Certificate_Checking should be a good starting point (including references for DRAT and DRUP).
< 1570963763 469351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you should just wait for Knuth to write that part of volume 4. 
< 1570963780 817585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea for RUP is that every backjump clause can be derived by "reverse unit propagation" -- assert the negation of the literals of the derived clause, and do unit propagation; if that results in a conflict, then the clause can be added without affecting satisfiability. So all a SAT solver has to do to produce a certificate is to record the backjump clauses which it's computing anyway.
< 1570963788 761775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and potentially learning)
< 1570963821 494034 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570963838 249884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRUP adds deletion of clauses (for efficiency). RAT is a bit more complicated and motivated by simplification of clause sets rather than DPLL itself.
< 1570963984 846673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Fascicle 6? I have a copy right here.
< 1570964014 898580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have technically written a SAT solver once, but it's a rather trivially stupid one, it only works on very simple expressions
< 1570964028 996948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't talk about many of the things I want, though, I think.
< 1570964033 880662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only read part of it so far.
< 1570964042 937747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so does it not help about "typical operations/memory layout/etc."? I'd expect Knuth to talk about those
< 1570964070 635160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly talks about those, for the algorithms it describes.
< 1570964197 775368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news.html has multiple news that I haven't seen 
< 1570964261 661758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look at it some more after these papers.
< 1570964326 731755 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity one of the links is already broken
< 1570964571 444248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it looks like the part of fascicle 6 two pages after where I left my bookmark in it a while ago is on the same topics I was reading papers on today.
< 1570964576 318758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll take a closer look.
< 1570964747 236256 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see he gets up to RUP.
< 1570964775 519350 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1005:7a6c:0:14:fc00:7a01 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570965399 31707 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1005:7a6c:0:14:fc00:7a01 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570965399 110104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how close the September 2015 pre-fascicle is to the printed fascicle...

< 1570965833 796399 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1570966215 338911 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: int-e: While I've been just idling here for years, I just noticed discussion about SAT solving... I've written a CDCL SAT solver and UNSAT certificate checker https://github.com/jix/varisat (not using DRAT though, I'm using a different proof format that records unit propagations during solving and thus can be checked much faster)... feel free to ask me any questions about SAT solving :)
< 1570966241 597384 :Ancyleus!~Ancyleus@47.149.105.11 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1570966257 253925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :idling... does that mean we should `welcome you?
< 1570966277 116149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nice
< 1570966291 55346 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just means I was quite active here... I don't know 10, 15 years ago or so and never parted :)
< 1570966317 149774 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this channel has a long history. 
< 1570966342 886904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` q jix # the quote file doesn't know that you were active... not under this name at least
< 1570966343 737102 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1570966353 77719 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jannis_Harder << that's me
< 1570966398 256298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: It's funny that you mention recording unit propagations... because the GRAT format does that as well, making for a three stage verification pipeline: simplifier+SAT-solver => DRAT => GRAT (fewer clauses, more information) => verifier.
< 1570966418 367041 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah I skip the DRAT => GRAT part which is as expensive as solving in the first place
< 1570966438 126316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is Lammich's pipeline... Heule et al. have a slightly different intermediate format ... I forgot the name.)
< 1570966438 960517 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I do is solving -> custom format -> LRAT (which is inspired by GRAT)
< 1570966483 611403 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :total time is cut roughly in half, but my solver isn't as good as others on many problems, so it's not that practical yet
< 1570966504 20072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: It's funny though that the overhead of storing and reading additional information like that pays off. (Ah, LRAT. I think that was it. If so, it's a concurrent development to GRAT.)
< 1570966543 601979 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I experimented with emitting LRAT directly, but the code to keep track of clause ids became very complicated and introduced memory overhead
< 1570966572 396491 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my next attempt just hashes clauses and resolves hash conflicts during conversion
< 1570966632 727722 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah maybe it was inspired by a predecessor of GRAT?
< 1570966656 31941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, let me check.
< 1570966774 417395 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there also is a newer DRAT proof checker, https://github.com/krobelus/rate that can emit LRAT and GRAT that is supposedly faster than drat-trim, but I haven't really benchmarked it yet 
< 1570966802 61039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... There's DRUP and DRAT as the foundation. There's a format called GRIT that records unit propagation steps. This is a precursor to both LRAT and GRAT, which do the same thing for RAT steps as well.
< 1570966835 511602 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, so I was thinking of GRIT when I read GRAT
< 1570966901 853273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LRAT and GRAT were developed independently for certified DRAT checking, both published at CADE 2017; LRAT is Cruz-Filipe, Heule, Hunt, Kaufmann, Schneider-Kamp; GRAT is Lammich)
< 1570967042 515175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"amost as fast as gratgen" - yeah I thought that gratgen looked very good, performance wise.
< 1570967275 673174 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case I think emitting an LRAT/GRAT like proof directly from the solver is quite a bit faster than conversion from DRAT, the biggest downside is that it is quite a bit larger than a DRAT proof, but if you're not interested in storing the proof you could run the verifying concurrently to avoid that
< 1570967396 904541 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might need to implement that for a competitive solver, though, if I want to convince people of that
< 1570967526 28272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Hmm, how well does the unsatisfiable core computation work though?
< 1570967572 552986 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: haven't checked that yet, it's possible, but it'll probably generate larger cores because there is no core-first propagation or anything like that
< 1570967615 319855 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use iterative solving to minimize the unsat core (like Heule did for the chromatic number of the plane problem), you can iterate faster, so it'd be interesting to compare it in that setting
< 1570967663 931606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Yeah I'm basically asking a research question... the answer can't be determined without trying, I think. I certainly don't have the intuition for it.
< 1570968797 95553 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570968818 373475 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570969260 943140 :Amiona!5a8d8d14@m90-141-141-20.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570969558 66676 :Amiona!5a8d8d14@m90-141-141-20.cust.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : Chat 40+   ->  https://soo.gd/room40plus
< 1570971145 963932 :Amiona!5a8d8d14@m90-141-141-20.cust.tele2.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1570972521 773806 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1570974741 590975 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570974741 738005 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1570974997 601846 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570974997 681820 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1570975019 595331 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570975019 631545 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1570975308 565364 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570975308 641655 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1570975332 200730 :Sigyn!sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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> 1570976441 214532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66648&oldid=66647 5* 03A 5* (+106) 10/* Implementation */
< 1570976583 868239 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570976962 627313 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the first emoji used in #esoteric? 🤔
< 1570977111 716225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: probably before 2003
< 1570977352 996251 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did emoji become "a thing," anyway? I seem to remember it was relatively recently that they were implemented on iOS and Android and subsequently (pretty much immediately) became popular in the US.
< 1570977365 744038 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Relatively recently" as in within the past 5 years.
< 1570977792 304752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Originating on Japanese mobile phones in 1997, emoji became increasingly popular worldwide in the 2010s after being added to several mobile operating systems.'
< 1570977799 973974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 wikipedia.
< 1570977845 384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'The first ASCII emoticons, :-) and :-(, were written by Scott Fahlman in 1982, but emoticons actually originated on the PLATO IV computer system in 1972.' (ditto)
< 1570977931 423140 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyope. Looks like iOS got support for emoji in 2011, much longer ago than I thought.
< 1570978080 347036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode version 6.0, 2010, added those to Unicode.
< 1570978082 493944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: when did it get support for animated emoji?
< 1570978328 965950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon we'll have animated emoji with sound and smell
< 1570978363 134330 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modifiers for whether the man blowing a raspberry emoji or the crying face emoji are supposed to be rendered with sound on or muted
< 1570978412 200138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a singing voice modifier that changes the default tenor voice to a bass
< 1570978935 799791 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure those, well, aren't really emoji.
< 1570978949 883588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet
< 1570978951 532750 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're pictures being sent, not Unicode strings
< 1570978965 188964 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :(animoted emoji, I mean)
< 1570979139 806817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember animated fonts on VGA...
> 1570979460 907681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Palaiologos14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66649 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+0) 10Created blank page
< 1570981067 547172 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: EGA was the first to support those, wasn't it?
< 1570981113 841592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: I'd have to check. I've never had an EGA myself.
< 1570981277 94618 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570981415 407762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: I still don't know, but at least it's very plausible that EGA supported this trick :)
< 1570981511 83156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it! the windows were open so the beeping sounded like it was coming from the outside. it took me two minutes to realize that it was my own oven alarm
< 1570981611 437565 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570981637 35735 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1570981783 664035 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1570982035 786108 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570982128 617800 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( who doesn't like charred pizza )
< 1570982300 700535 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :charred pizza is profanation of pizza
< 1570982318 417368 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once in my life I've been to Venice, there was a guy selling pizza slices
< 1570982321 800801 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one slice was arm-length
< 1570982346 781252 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the slice overall was very moist with a lot of olive oil
< 1570982405 637129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it's not pizza
< 1570982414 509667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not charred 
< 1570982492 256903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 16*12*0.0254
< 1570982493 5251 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 4.8768
< 1570982578 937942 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570983179 313030 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Well, EGA definitely supported (the appearance of) animated fonts.
< 1570983187 122076 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hecc, I should get an EGA.
< 1570983220 815202 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hook it up to my IBM PC.
< 1570983225 696055 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I'll have to get an IBM PC.
< 1570983243 962639 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with an 8080 processor, I don't want none of this protected mode nonsense.
< 1570983787 58256 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :8080's are pretty cheap, you could just build one.
< 1570983901 599202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: don't you at least want a proper 16 bit data bus though?
< 1570983937 740500 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1570983939 84182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you already have 16 bit registers.
< 1570983955 916263 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm, perhaps.
< 1570984769 339405 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: https://monotech.fwscart.com/NuXT_MicroATX_Turbo_XT_955MHz_832K_RAM_XTCF_SVGA_Floppy_Serial/p6083514_19777986.aspx ?
< 1570984793 204806 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the literally ideal solution for all use cases of this sort of thing mind, but it is a very pleasant product)
< 1570984850 615854 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ooh, sweet!
< 1570984889 192556 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1570984919 390301 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine stock is never gonna be _super_ common, cause it's very much a cottage-industry thing _and_ some of the components are new-old-stock, but
< 1570985192 186698 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, while trickier to get _most_ of what makes that nice can be cobbled together with other off-the-shelf things.
< 1570985239 198339 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just less all-in-one)
< 1570986119 7904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh I see. the "955MHz" in the url was confusing. it's "9.55 MHz" rather than "955 MHz".
< 1570986773 38784 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fast enough to run a stock exchange. :D
< 1570987074 887579 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, now I'm all thinking about writing stock exchange software for an online game.
< 1570987093 405019 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psst, I'm writing an online game. Currently, you can log into the game, and see how much of various commodities everyone has.
< 1570987122 807863 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently it is not possible to gain more commodities, or to do anything with the commodities you've got.
< 1570987164 31944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is fast enough to run a stock exchange. those people are crazy, they put computers in the middle of the Atlantic just so they can speculate a few milliseconds earlier when their choice depends on information from both European and American stock exchanges.
< 1570987176 723561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous
< 1570987294 238701 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, high-frequency trading is a weird thing.
< 1570987319 432758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't work in financial areas, and admittedly the areas where I work are crazy in other ways, 
< 1570987502 761050 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically, traders provide a valuable service.
< 1570987537 200008 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be able to buy and sell goods, services and capital at prices that reflect their fair market value.
< 1570987574 481418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, they provide the grease that reduces the friction of the market 
< 1570987585 798015 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if someone puts effort into providing that for me, they deserve a bit of return for their effort.
< 1570987602 770736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do get their return in the form of money
< 1570987621 557409 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1570987631 667599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tinfoil hat
< 1570987632 774120 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinfoil hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1570987667 331277 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's presumably a point where it stops being "they get money in exchange for providing a valuable service" and starts being "they get money for being better at poker than everyone else."
< 1570987744 862433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's separable. they provide the valuable service by being good at poker.
< 1570987828 204043 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in actual poker, the good poker players aren't really providing a valuable service to the bad poker players.
< 1570987861 922119 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like if I go into a casino and count cards, the casino pays me money, but it's not because I'm providing a valuable service to the casino.
< 1570987900 794570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly. Instead of pointless gambling, people should be able to bet on real things, and thus provide a valuable service to the world.
< 1570987951 838803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in on the stock market?
< 1570987996 219194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stock betting is already mostly legal, and it's useful but it's not the only useful market.
< 1570988030 138134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mostly arbitrary prediction markets should be generally legal in the US, except one special one.
< 1570988045 369189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they pretend it's mostly legal, because if we could find out what specific illegal thing they do, the authorities would punish them
< 1570988063 613870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1570988090 233916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the intermediate stuff, betting on sports?
< 1570988108 284295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sports betting seems pretty useless to me, but probably a bit better than casinos.
< 1570988176 61360 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sports betting seems pretty popular here, among people who I think don't have any comparative advantage in the bets, so it's just a game of chance, paying for the thrill or something
< 1570988184 405445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how it's so popular
< 1570988204 969099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of odd which things are legal to bet on in the US.
< 1570988229 543888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example you can bet on the weather.
< 1570988267 316526 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what things aren't legal to bet on?
< 1570988355 905392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary events.
< 1570988366 764325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part of the legal rules (IANAL) is not just what you can bet on, but how you pay income tax after them. it's pretty clear that if you win all your bets, then all that you gain on them is your income.
< 1570988421 749201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you win one bet and lose another bet, then is it a transaction as a whole and your income is the difference, or is the winning bet your income and the losing bets your spending so your income is what you win on the former?
< 1570988425 714955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for predictit.org and apparently something in Iowa, which are still not legal but allowed to run anyway?
< 1570988445 382924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some rules on that, but of course there are so many, often illegal, new forms of betting, that they can't cover it all
< 1570988448 499931 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the UK is more permitting than the US wrt betting on arbitrary events, then
< 1570988453 647589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's even harder to enforce it
< 1570988459 186389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The answers to these questions are well-established for other trading, so it doesn't seem like a problem.
< 1570988478 351658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you're betting secret and illegally it's hard to enforce, but the law is reasonably clear.
< 1570988496 920622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the UK is more permitting.
< 1570988507 957160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in the UK you have to use inscrutable words like "back" and "lay".
< 1570988517 248488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. and since games of chance are so severely regulated here, almost everyone who earns a signifiacnt amount do it illegally
< 1570988524 785655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once in a while I figure out what they mean but the next time I want to look at a market I've forgotten again.
< 1570988572 562041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, jargon
< 1570988594 134089 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually the UK brokers let you bet on whether you think arsons will torch the Gävle straw goat or not
< 1570988603 55554 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(speaking of being able to bet on arbitrary events)
< 1570988655 551541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FaeFly: they always do, the bet is only about when
< 1570988667 482645 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1570988682 81090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway my point is just that actual markets are useful for the world, whereas casinos are not.
< 1570988692 46419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, as for goats
< 1570988694 902284 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah, there's been years when it hasn't been, but the majority of the time it seems to be)
< 1570988717 148628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if people are going to get the gambling thrill anyway, better for them to lose money on actual markets, to incentivize counterparties to do research or something.
< 1570988717 228331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought running a casino is great for making money?
< 1570988737 968602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, casinos are useful for the owners and not anyone else.
< 1570988759 964377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markets are useful for everyone.
< 1570988765 2274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1570988770 26010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how Gävle has goats, and Budapest used to have these painted cows at one point? on my vacation, I found that Dortmund had painted _winged_ _rhinoceroses_.
< 1570988779 718117 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1570988791 952418 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: grocery markets, maybe
< 1570988801 543026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grocery futures! Good idea.
< 1570988821 610036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exotic grocery futures options derivatives.
< 1570988826 171805 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been done for cocoa...
< 1570988838 606044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, another thing that's illegal in the US is onions future.
< 1570988852 666118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's an explicit exception for onion, most kinds of futures are legal.
< 1570988871 432340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for onions
< 1570988885 111159 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you learned the right lesson from the Tulip crisis.
< 1570988897 141975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those are a kind of onion, right?)
< 1570988897 325850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nah, they don't really work. the agriculture guys figured out that they don't have to pay for insurance, they just tell the government every year that this year has been the worst weather ever since their life and there's no way they could have been prepared for it and the government has got to pay them subsidy to help them
< 1570988908 530037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't compete with that
< 1570988912 636315 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ban bulb speculation!
< 1570988971 51737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like onion futures to be legal. Maybe I can write my congresshumans.
< 1570989045 985897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is this like those rules that get compiled to stupid law compilations on the internet, like laws about not being allowed to park an elephant close to a school or something?
< 1570989070 860049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's this law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act
< 1570989137 680701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was later amended to ban box office receipts futures (bets on how much money a movie will make).
< 1570989168 487043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the law is just bad. As far as I know onion farmers agree nowadays.
< 1570989224 513456 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's certainly a ridiculous piece of legislation. I'm all for such a ban but limiting it to onions is ridiculous and short-sighted.
< 1570989235 95746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ticking time bomb.
< 1570989244 484896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, I'm not a big believer in capitalism. Why do you ask?)
< 1570989288 832486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that. That's why I'm taking the contrarian view point, obviously.
< 1570989289 788173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More to the point I believe that free markets have optimize the wrong objective function.)
< 1570989301 888425 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/have//
< 1570989308 779585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I agree on that.
< 1570989322 319936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know what right and wrong objective functions you have in mind.
< 1570989338 101343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also don't know what's better. It's easy to name shortcomings in markets.
> 1570989361 768890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Photon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66650&oldid=63463 5* 03Sugarfi 5* (+0) 10
< 1570989545 901119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that looks crazy, and I think it's an example of exactly what I said above, that agriculture people can put on a great innocent small child face with the puppy eyes and tell the congress that they're being unfairly exploited by the evil stock trade people, and then the congress does anything they ask for
< 1570989586 45337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they don't, then the agriculture people pour milk and throw watermelons at them, and the politicians get afraid that their beautifully tailored suits will get spoiled, and so they give in
< 1570989594 380816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a feasible, stable solution either. (For example, socialism is a great idea, but putting it into practice is really hard... you're likely to end up with corruption everywhere, and quite possibly an unmotivated workforce.)
< 1570989596 348276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they *were* unfairly exploited by futures traders.
< 1570989661 151447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, timely regulation is probably the best to hope for.
< 1570989676 408656 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pgmmudzojockohut PRIVMSG #esoteric :The free market is great as long as the market value of every person's labor exceeds the market value of the goods and services necessary for that person's well-being.
< 1570989683 954842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: OK, sure, it sounds like we agree on that.
< 1570989703 344760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A big point of the whole market thing is that incentives line up well.
< 1570989719 32710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regulation is also the key to internalizing external costs, especially from the future.
< 1570989722 666080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you certainly want regulation rather than "free markets" which can easily be pathological.
< 1570989737 760193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and you want to internalize externalities.
< 1570989770 444936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, since we don't know anything better than the free market model that is also stable in the medium and perhaps even long term, we have to resort to tweaking the cost function.
< 1570989849 568452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's all embedded in a prisoner's dilemma between countries because for most things we have a global market.
< 1570989963 979919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The background problem I'm considering is limiting climate change. It's one of the truly big challenges where in theory, it should be in everybody's interest to work really hard towards a solution, including accepting lowered standards of living for the few for the benefit of the many and future generations. In practice... I don't see any of that happening fast enough to matter.)
< 1570990036 929175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cornering markets, as nasty as that is... seems minor in comparison.
< 1570990108 345006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limiting climate change is good but a particular government can add regulation for externalities however market-oriented it is.
< 1570990119 513410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the inter-government issues are no different.
< 1570990475 412870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is weird. SAT solvers in the morning, free market in the evening
< 1570990526 696906 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've also seen ootsology, meditation, and actual spam
< 1570990557 891879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Anyway, I don't think we disagree on any of the facts, so I think it's odd that you end up thinking futures should be illegal and I don't.
< 1570990643 507164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball should futures be illegal?
< 1570990644 170139 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better not tell you now.
< 1570990664 98124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what restrictions do you recommend to put on the free market?
< 1570990664 438539 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: designing an os -and- playing tabletop.... i'm kinda thinking specifically of http and other stateless protocols... and dynamic ip addresses. but i can't
< 1570990674 823978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1570990724 390005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you put it like that I'm not sure about whether they should be illegal. I don't think they are useful, and I dislike some of the consequences (cornering markets is most attractive in the presence of futures, isn't it...)
< 1570990779 66611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think futures are useful for reducing uncertainty and transferring risk from people who have it to people who want it.
< 1570990815 808508 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the trouble, isn't it
< 1570990832 337797 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hedging risks is great, speculation is bad, and there's no discernable differencw
< 1570990835 290522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1570990863 932243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is speculation bad?
< 1570990881 891032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Speculation can also be done without futures, of course.)
< 1570990884 556974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad when combined with bankruptcy
< 1570990907 850117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then you're in an ugly external cost scenario.
< 1570990927 16921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs.

< 1570990951 3612 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh at first I thought about futures like promises
< 1570990971 273955 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I promise to buy ... shares at price ... in the future.
< 1570990972 472853 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1570990972 856406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's arguable, but often it's addressed anyway.
< 1570990975 27087 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I see this is economical stuff I don’t know anything about
< 1570990995 179622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think speculation clearly has a useful function too.
< 1570991021 932797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's still greasing the market?
< 1570991025 301025 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don’t really distingwish promises and futures too, I hadn’t read anything comprehensive to date about them all
< 1570991027 356985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I buy wheat when it's cheap (low demand) and sell it when it's expensive (high demand), I've transferred wheat from people who don't need it to people who do.
< 1570991050 173162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, greasing the market, even though wheat in particular isn't greasy
< 1570991060 112014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get paid for it because the people who need it are willing to pay because it's so useful to them.
< 1570991067 94414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems cleary useful.
< 1570991098 663715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: presumably you've also paid for storage. except... nowadays... that's not so clear at all
< 1570991110 386390 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( my market is all floury on the floor, who did it )
< 1570991124 63993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays you might've paid someone else for storage, sure.
< 1570991191 412726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably if the grain travels time then someone payed for its storage somehow
< 1570991199 657583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no free launch
< 1570991210 427483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1570991241 469866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe there is no grain
< 1570991298 133544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean it got to the future the old style way, by having planted seeds a few months before you need it, and then harvesting at the right time, so it doesn't need to be stored??
< 1570991313 50214 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's futures -> short-selling -> cornering markets -> disaster. :P
< 1570991358 228309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW I watched those slides on GA and I wonder how can it be explained transparently than in PGA, you represent points by (n−1)-vectors, lines by (n−2)-vectors and so on and hyperplanes by 1-vectors, all in reverse to the way they’re represented in usual projective space context
< 1570991384 680758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you're focusing on a few extremely bad failure cases -- which are generally illegal anyway -- and not on the constant benefits everyone gets.
< 1570991408 969413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a _disaster_, it's just another stupid zillion dollars lots of government subsidies, because the agriculture sector knows that puppy eyes are cheaper than taking any risk or behaving like they're part of a world economy where maybe it's not worth for them to grow watermelons at all because shipping them all the way from brazil is cheaper
< 1570991421 843464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because "everyone" is concentrated in the top 1%.
< 1570991440 157091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's true.
< 1570991468 776581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's born out by the capital distribution and its changed distribution over time.
< 1570991477 967286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheat farmers get the benefits of wheat futures, because they can reliably know what prices they'll sell their wheat at before it's grown, so they can plan better.
< 1570991512 863971 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^cont.) (representing them the usual way gives something paranormal but why the reverse works is not automatically clear)
< 1570991526 332352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't they be better off if they had sufficient money floating to hedge those risks themselves...
< 1570991529 833882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I think there are clearly problems causing wealth to be concentrated among a small number of people to a ridiculous degree. But I don't think derivatives are the cause.
< 1570991536 697629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1570991554 722151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I buy insurance rather than hedging tail risks myself.
< 1570991593 669329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in some cases insurance makes sense and in some cases it's ridiculous, but the concept surely makes sense.
< 1570991619 359971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, that's more than half the point of insurance
< 1570991632 643538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ridiculous: US health insurance.)
< 1570991634 405121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should cover normal fluctuations using your own capital and tail risks by a proper insurance?
< 1570991651 432204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh yeah, that one is weird
< 1570991653 267269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see where you need futures in this picture.
< 1570991682 320208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to transfer whatever risks you want to people who want to buy them.
< 1570991709 627445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm
< 1570991786 938090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one is forcing wheat farmers to use futures. If they want to hedge tail risks only they can do that too (and people also trade wheat options, but I imagined you'd have even more of an objection to those).
< 1570991795 357521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's also cases when the government mandates you to buy insurance, most importantly (a) when you're driving motor vehilcles, you must buy insurance to pay to the people you kill by accident, and (b) if you run a travel agency, you must buy insurance to transport the travelers back home
< 1570991829 477902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? trigak
< 1570991830 560487 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :trigak? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1570991874 951458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? serini
< 1570991876 52512 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :serini? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1570991888 56894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what look, trigak and serini look just the same according to the wisdome
< 1570997380 751704 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1570997650 815242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often hear backjumping described as a big improvement, but is it actually that important?
< 1570997683 275518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your learned clause, even if you didn't backjump but only went up one level, the new clause would give you a conflict via unit propagation anyway, right? So you wouldn't end up making any new decisions.
< 1570999230 876230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://twitter.com/ioccc/status/1183476350847336453
< 1570999279 453800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, this will be interesting
< 1570999287 767466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ioccc? let me see
< 1570999322 640919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The point of backjumping is that you undo decisions that were made after a point where the newly learned clause could be used for unit propagation.
< 1570999361 661347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's not an unconditional win, but heuristically you want to do as much unit propagation as possible before making a decision.
< 1570999368 830269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's only a pre-update.
< 1570999449 488299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can think of it as a partial restart, maybe?
< 1570999465 149249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :majority opposition win in Bp
< 1570999513 945400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I mean, clearly backjumping is good, but if you didn't do it, unit propagation alone (and no decisions) would unwind you to the same point. Right?
< 1570999514 914213 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1570999544 595854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, sooner or later...
< 1570999577 676882 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: actually, no, it's incomparable
< 1570999595 745271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know it's not the final results yet, but it won't change significantly at this point
< 1570999608 397469 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if ordinary backtracking returns to that point, the negated literal corresponding to that decision will end up on the trail, then the backjump literal.
< 1570999661 663855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm pretty sure this is one of those ideas that are completely unclear in theory but work out well in practice.
< 1570999684 315535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aka a heuristic ;)
< 1570999763 287584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, that's probably not worth an ioccclist trigger
< 1570999766 272075 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ioccclist
< 1570999767 330933 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news
< 1570999779 30440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh what do you mean by "unwind"... only backtracking or backjumping really unwinds anything; everything else expands the trail.
< 1570999780 767637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even appear on the news page
< 1570999921 290741 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey SDR nerds, can anyone identify this encoding scheme?
< 1570999929 478582 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/o3noKYIX/Screenshot%202019-10-13%2014.51.44.png
< 1570999933 425727 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/G4qGBD9F/Screenshot%202019-10-13%2014.50.47.png
< 1570999973 565882 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not manchester... the thing i noticed is each high is only ever 1 symbol length but the low intervals are either 1 or 2
< 1571000016 360902 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a transmission is variable length depending on how many 0s or 1s there are?
< 1571000040 528761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: that could happen, there's at least one encoding scheme that is variable length like that
< 1571000056 169319 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there could be a layer over it that changes what comes out as zeroes and ones
< 1571000064 297170 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qoPjGUGh/Screenshot%202019-10-13%2014.53.51.png
< 1571000079 546175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: but isn't it also possible that you have too few samples and sometimes the high can be 2 long too?
< 1571000099 298031 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is possible
< 1571000118 432666 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to reverse-engineer my cheap-ass wirelessly controlled christmas lights 
< 1571000153 167091 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a remote control dongle with three buttons (toggle power, change pattern, and 'sync' which restarts the current pattern) so... those are the only three samples i'm gonna get :P 
< 1571000156 700859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Wire which is variable length like that
< 1571000165 45310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with different timing
< 1571000172 173029 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's OOK over 433mhz
< 1571000188 148769 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kind of hoping the receive device supports discrete on and off commands
< 1571000190 917109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you always get the same sample from the same button?
< 1571000227 630443 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1571000234 413333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's promising
< 1571000243 355561 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just plays over and over again while the button is held down
< 1571000265 168166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :send it lots of random nonsense quickly and hope that does something?
< 1571000281 34233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you implement on/off by the power connection instead if needed?
< 1571000323 80976 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally, but that requires extra hardware :P 
< 1571000335 403600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: these only have, like, 17 bits of info at most, so try all 2**17 combinations
< 1571000352 483514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them will probably be ignored
< 1571000388 363448 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i need to rig up some code to send those words out from my own hardware next
< 1571000408 781009 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these sent by radio or by infrared?
< 1571000418 950882 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio, 433mhz OOK
< 1571000483 903526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that might be harder
< 1571000533 661043 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a spare rileylink
< 1571001103 969932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think I'm confusil about something but I don't want to type it on my phone so I'll try to say more later.
< 1571001129 984749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By unwinding I mean regular backtracking, i.e. only subtracting 1 from the level.
< 1571001732 208848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right. Then I think I've understood correctly... and perhaps answered your question as well.
< 1571002240 689493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Back at computer.
< 1571002294 323231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the word "confusil" doesn't appear in quotes or wisdom ... yet
< 1571002305 732497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Whether you backtrack or backjump to a point earlier in the trail, you should have the same state, shouldn't you?
< 1571002363 686267 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, because the backtracking will leave an additional literal on the trail.
< 1571002371 607683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the same trail state. Your learned clauses might be different.
< 1571002381 577989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I don't make more constructive conversation, but SAT solvers really isn't a topic I feel interested about
< 1571002384 647010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: before unit propragation with the learned clause kicks in.
< 1571002420 362543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, backtracking only deletes everything past some point in the trail, doesn't it?
< 1571002456 79838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at the time you unwind to any past level k, you've deleted everything past k in the trail.
< 1571002459 86767 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: backtracking takes deletes the trail up to the last decision, and places the negated decision literal on the trail
< 1571002488 331580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you say "that point" what do you mean?
< 1571002511 943042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should just draw a diagram and the confusilation would be resolved in eight seconds.
< 1571002530 395067 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "that point" meaning the position of the decision literal that backjumping would replace on the trail.
< 1571002624 651197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you have a,b!,c,d,e!,f,g!,h,i on the trail, where the !ed literals are decisions and the rest are a result of unit propagation.
< 1571002658 956302 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571002659 830607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reach a contradiction and you add a clause, which would let you backjump to replace e. Right?
< 1571002660 344652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you have 1 2^d 3 4 5^d 6 7, a conflict, with learned clause -1,-7... then backjumping results in 1 -7 as the new trail, whereas if you continue the search until 2^d is removed by backtracking, you'll end up with 1 -2, and then unit propagation will add -7.
< 1571002667 704582 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ^d marks decisions.
< 1571002692 44338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1571002700 499831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I see what you mean. Thanks.
< 1571002848 118695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one of the important things about CDCL is that the only thing the learned clauses are any use for is unit propagation. Right?
< 1571002869 593869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you want them to be as small as possible if you can manage it, or otherwise as relevant as possible within your assumptions. Or something like that.
< 1571002878 15304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( just like any other clauses )
< 1571002907 321447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the original clauses are useful for specifying your problems.
< 1571002918 601722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new clauses are redundant and only useful if they make unit propagation happen.
< 1571002932 470231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying something very obvious here.
< 1571002934 991685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1571002946 220761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there's a point here.
< 1571002970 457405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAT solvers also prune the clause database (they forget clauses), and that's only allowed for clauses that are redundant.
< 1571002989 715804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that in most cases, they will only forget learned clauses.
< 1571002992 744195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they even forget original problem clauses?
< 1571003029 84970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are simplification procedures (I know nothing about them really except that they exist) which can also identify redundant clauses.
< 1571003036 580688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the main reason to forget clauses was to save memory, and otherwise having a bunch of clauses doesn't hurt.
< 1571003040 959849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, sure, simplification makes sense.
< 1571003051 963362 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or potentially rewrite clauses (add some clauses that make other clauses redundant while maintaining satisfiability)
< 1571003123 744555 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the slightly odd things about CDCL is that you have to use full clauses, rather than the reduced clauses you get after assuming some literals. Right?
< 1571003166 296240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean wrt the current trail?
< 1571003170 178596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you have the clause (a | b | c), and you assume ¬b, you sometimes think of it as solving the subproblem where you have the clause (a | c).
< 1571003188 539722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your learned clauses have to be globally true so you can't really talk about subproblems like that.
< 1571003212 559107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ever want to go back on that assumption and keep the learned clauses valid... yeah you'll need full clauses.
< 1571003221 973356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in particular that's true for everything on the trail.
< 1571003267 123634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think that's not so bad because even if you learn a big clause, while you're in the same region (sharing most of the trail) it'll still be locally pretty small and so useful for unit propagation.
< 1571003314 66027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When your trail looks very different after a while, the big clause might be less useful, and you might be more inclined to forget it.
< 1571003354 645456 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also learning is completely optional... a SAT solver can just refuse to learn clauses above a certain size.
< 1571003376 10901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Without learning a CDCL solver is still correct, which is good.
< 1571003412 627478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can just use big clauses for backjumping without learning them? Not sure how useful that would be.
< 1571003421 90054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's kind of awful too... you have so many degrees of freedom for heuristics...
< 1571003478 2243 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which literal to decide on, what to learn, what to forget, when to restart...
< 1571003504 521305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting seems like a surprising strategy to me. Especially a solver (BerkMin) that restarts every 550 conflicts?!
< 1571003520 438590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do restarting solvers have any guarantee of termination?
< 1571003544 500887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are supposed to do some sort of (exponential?) backoff...
< 1571003580 844505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this interacts in interesting ways with learning.
< 1571003610 616066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you learn all backjump clauses and never forget then even if you restart after every conflict you'll eventually solve the problem.
< 1571003641 532962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because everything slowly becomes forced by UP.
< 1571003652 703252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is degenerate... you'd have a conflict, analyse it to find the backjump clause, learn that clause, but never actually backjump because you're restarting anyway)
< 1571003978 487040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other intuitive reason for restarts is that initially the variable selection heuristic has no information at all... with a restart, even early decision levels can benefit from the variable selection heuristic.
< 1571004053 623203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose this is especially important for satisfiable problems.
< 1571004555 82069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is unit propagation the only thing used for assigning values to variables, other than decisions?
< 1571004833 587484 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's fast?
< 1571004897 225401 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess the attitude is that all other inferences can be learned as clauses.
< 1571005179 37253 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the original DPLL had a "pure literal" rule... if a literal only occurs positively in the current set of clauses (those that are not already true) then one can assert that literal to be true. Nobody implements this as part of the propagation rules.
< 1571005311 186827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're facing a decision like... "would you rather do X or 1k unit propagations"
< 1571005343 791049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to imagine that X probably won't pay off :)
< 1571006951 33224 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo, i need an SDR
< 1571007795 598434 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpmssffdsnzgzmsg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571010095 431361 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1571011867 876182 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571012459 976354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571012472 126427 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1571013084 472280 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571013713 382273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : luckily it's not pizza <-- then it must be bell pepper and aubergine stew, just the way shachaf hates it
< 1571013741 277118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hungry
< 1571013742 401503 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1571014657 203130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom tinfoil
< 1571014657 921599 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise.
< 1571014676 925214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom foil
< 1571014677 670724 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​foil//Foil is a material that provides protection against evil, such as mind control rays. To protect the world many heroes spend a lot of their time foiling villains.
< 1571014730 251291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh that's mine
< 1571016273 243514 :Ancyleus!~Ancyleus@47.149.105.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571016780 577766 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571016963 304628 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3
< 1571017692 560153 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571017962 289557 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpmssffdsnzgzmsg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571024742 718537 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571024827 389890 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571024827 647928 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571025601 318416 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
< 1571025658 18822 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571027933 15049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:IFcoltransG14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66651 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+369) 10Created my user page. Check it!
< 1571028026 888547 :Ancyleus!~Ancyleus@47.149.105.11 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571033199 968979 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1571036895 303801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reason why frequent restarts help solve problems faster is that while the solver does forget all current variable assignments, it does keep some information, specifically it keeps learnt clauses, effectively sampling the search space, and it keeps the last assigned truth value of each variable, assigning them the same value the next time they are picked to be assigned"
< 1571036907 855085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't consider that last part.
< 1571036929 833505 :lucio_ma!~user@123.148.226.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571036966 790730 :lucio_ma!~user@123.148.226.119 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1571037875 227003 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it also keeps the scores used for the variable selection part of the decision heuristic
< 1571037929 202789 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so it is likely that it will branch on a similar set of variables after a restart
< 1571038322 662536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1571038988 966943 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1005:7a6c:0:14:fc00:7a01 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571040479 770581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who exactly is dying in out-of-order execution
< 1571040742 13354 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's an issue that may take until retirement to figure out
< 1571041715 736308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-44.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571042276 2860 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC sources have been released
< 1571042466 927780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: There's a list for that.
< 1571042723 922452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu TOPIC #esoteric :IOCCC source code escaped | Welcome to the international center for esoteric programming language design, development, and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/
< 1571042785 771911 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: quite possibly
< 1571042826 814902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`listlist
< 1571042827 512758 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFlist* \ aglist* \ bardsworthlist* \ bobadventureslist* \ calesyta2016list* \ danddreclist* \ don'taskdon'ttelllist@ \ dontaskdonttelllist* \ ehlist* \ emptylist* \ erflist* \ flist* \ idealist* \ ioccclist* \ keenlist* \ list* \ listen* \ listlist* \ llist* \ makelist* \ makelistlist* \ minimalist* \ mlist* \ olist* \ pbflist* \ slist* \ smlist* \ stylist* \ testlist* \ xkcdwhatiflist* \ ysaclist*
< 1571043813 161953 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what's the FireFlist
< 1571043818 15230 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I want to know..
< 1571043850 512733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/FireFlist
< 1571043851 880955 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo FireFly Eldis4
< 1571043983 681269 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1571044015 774547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/FireFlist
< 1571044017 229206 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortẗi nortẗi
< 1571044030 533035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. must be old :)
< 1571044033 958004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my solver extremely slow?
< 1571044063 436209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was because I'm being very inefficient, but my friend's solver is also very inefficient and is also written in Python and is only slightly slower.
< 1571044239 939419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1571044413 269425 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Anevka. Things are coming together.
< 1571044449 435949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: could you have bad benchmark(s)?
< 1571044458 843812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one of the solver gets lucky, the other not
< 1571044935 592536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same random 3SAT instance.
< 1571044972 675890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you've tried several I suppose?
< 1571044991 198738 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows, maybe you are doing something wrong
< 1571044998 668525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my time is roughly consistent.
< 1571045011 759399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect this is just naıve in a way their solver isn't.
< 1571045025 181555 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't worried about it because I was going to implement watched literals anyway, but it's a bit odd.
< 1571045255 281636 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571045273 958341 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, let me see
< 1571045300 897803 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ioccclist https://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2019 The source code for the winners of the 26th IOCCC has been released. 
< 1571045301 512869 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccclist https://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2019 The source code for the winners of the 26th IOCCC has been released. : b_jonas rain2 rain1
< 1571045308 239608 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1571045316 691354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it might've just been luck for this instance.
< 1571045326 617692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I assume false instead of true, the time goes way down.
< 1571045388 609983 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" int-e: that's an issue that may take until retirement to figure out" => beautiful ambiguous statement, playing on how "retirement" has both a technical meaning in this context and an everyday meaning
< 1571045448 620812 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can make bell pepper stew in an oven?
< 1571045494 442178 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right, it's just "foil"
< 1571045503 619475 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as for "hungry", the relevant wisdom is
< 1571045505 88211 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ostrich
< 1571045506 55041 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
< 1571045570 215968 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was apparently written by you
< 1571045635 376403 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: as does "issue" :)
< 1571045717 552997 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shig: IOCCC winners are released
< 1571045763 823449 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me thing where else on the internet should I ping with this news
< 1571045772 562334 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome!
< 1571045879 231745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: ah, didn't see those... now I feel bad :P
< 1571045933 512136 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571046461 564334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think it was just my variable-picking strategy being very bad.
< 1571046565 572594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plausible... out of curiosity, did you test a satisfiable or an unsatisfiable problem?
< 1571046580 706007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both, but mostly a satisfiable one.
< 1571046699 363131 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably use mostly unsatisfiable instances for comparison between solvers... or many satisfiable instances. Luck is too much of a factor for satisfiable instances.
< 1571046768 711487 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :people also randomize inputs... shuffling literals and clauses.
< 1571046832 459534 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and randomly negating them, like in bfjoust
< 1571046922 899903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust is not random though, is it
< 1571046949 180128 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for unsat instances variance is crazy, which makes good benchmarking take a long time and cost a lot :(
< 1571047034 92934 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the random space is so small that we try all possibilities, so we don't do a real random sample, but the idea is the same
< 1571047060 70716 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some instances work better when you negate the direction, so we try both negated and non-negated
< 1571048205 608941 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1571048322 880129 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Lykaina
< 1571048387 21935 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 min till quiet time in my apartment building is lifted
< 1571048478 786053 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh...
< 1571048532 21669 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take meds then and go back to sleep
< 1571048657 157720 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :woke at 5am
< 1571048780 73493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mace is in the house
< 1571048838 512843 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: huh?
< 1571048845 192570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzPf4RRG1Rc ;-)
< 1571048863 271459 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't...still quiet time
< 1571048875 771152 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LIVE State Opening of Parliament: 14 October 2019"
< 1571049337 558622 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the uk is pissed that they voted for brexit
< 1571049381 710560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still divided on that according to polls
< 1571049400 890012 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously?
< 1571049410 282434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously.
< 1571049439 992856 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina is probably on the east coast of North America then
< 1571049463 222640 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1571049511 362763 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :queen arrived, house of commons summoned... this will take a while :)
< 1571049574 358615 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they do a no-deal brexit, i will be disappointed
< 1571049595 688908 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this point I won't. But it's unlikely to happen just now.
< 1571049642 948651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of expecting another extension and a general election in the UK. But I don't really know; I think nobody does.
< 1571049663 566851 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope they stay in the eurozone
< 1571049696 843314 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely.
< 1571049712 873670 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, they need to sacrifice a prime minister as a scapegoat a few times per year, and a general election is the easiest way to choose the next person to be sacrificed
< 1571049726 572673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Johnson's speech has begun. (Read by the Queen, of course.)
< 1571049730 465182 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: what? eurozone?
< 1571049739 91813 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not using the euro
< 1571049750 337379 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahno
< 1571049764 709021 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: huh, why would the Queen read the PM's speech?
< 1571049778 882063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Because that's how this "Queen's speech" works.
< 1571049780 953797 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, free travel
< 1571049839 912485 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we've got the near final results for the local govt elections. opposition win in Budapest is now confirmed, in fact they got one more place than they seemed to have when I checked in the evening.
< 1571049873 795335 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's weird
< 1571049888 565736 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571049889 870945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Well it is the UK. :P
< 1571049901 873927 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :uck
< 1571049958 597496 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: did you know that Corbyn is pro Brexit?
< 1571049969 327040 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :who?
< 1571049982 390822 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leader of the Labour party.
< 1571049987 302594 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1571050004 66208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The party line is different, interestingly enough.
< 1571050034 434273 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the tories?
< 1571050052 768566 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does tories = labour?
< 1571050078 743986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, they are opposing parties.
< 1571050082 702965 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: tories = conservative party, who are in government and led by Boris Johnson
< 1571050352 757852 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :which country is led by boris badnoff? i forgot
< 1571050360 767497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the queen has left
< 1571050408 747557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what happens next... apparently the house of commons members return there...
< 1571050447 835136 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a debate on whether the Commons accept the Queen's Speech
< 1571050465 753981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. Should be fun.
< 1571050499 969858 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did the queen argue for/against?
< 1571050537 658821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :brexit, law and order, environmental protection (interestingly enough), leadership (of the UK in the world) after brexit
< 1571050543 705026 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember all of it.
< 1571050589 933429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure we can read the whole thing online in a couple of hours.
< 1571050716 33608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(law and order... there was a bit about giving the polic force the means of defending themselves, and something about giving them the power to arrest people with warrants by "trusted partners".
< 1571050720 194115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1571050788 140495 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. I've never seen this ceremony; now I have. Yay me :)
< 1571050814 334237 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is she again?
< 1571050846 153844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :93
< 1571050852 514461 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1571050873 420490 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If she were here she's probably be the oldest person in the channel
< 1571050980 33535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: Anyway, the polls that I recall said that a small majority would be in favour of staying in the EU now. However, not all of those people want to abandon the Brexit process...
< 1571051012 397181 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused
< 1571051077 502790 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: The first question is entirely hypothetical... if the Brexit process had not been started, and there was a referendum on that today just like there was (uhm, 3?) years ago, how would they vote.
< 1571051147 315933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second question is about actually going back and stopping the Brexit process that has been started and ongoing for all the time since.
< 1571051169 66638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a lot of people now want it to be over with, not really caring about the result.
< 1571051270 627664 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 3.5 years
< 1571051278 566871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough
< 1571051284 851117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for my standards)
< 1571051287 530715 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1571051303 350471 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... I'm mixed up, it was in the summer, wasn't it?
< 1571051312 427427 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then article 50 was invoked the following Spring
< 1571051322 148390 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 3.25
< 1571051325 678592 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very close
< 1571051338 128581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's meet in the middle!
< 1571051698 803334 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The queen ended the speech, now she's leaving.
< 1571051727 656525 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm no, maybe she isn't.
< 1571051731 384274 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how this works.
< 1571051773 748033 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's speaking again now.
< 1571051881 329543 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I think your coverage may be behind?
< 1571051937 792859 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If she were here she's probably be the oldest person in the channel" lol
< 1571051943 310361 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb isn't
< 1571051944 319901 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who taneb isn't? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1571051947 588467 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb aren't
< 1571051948 533877 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who taneb aren't? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1571051950 366029 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1571051952 421374 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb is not
< 1571051953 418308 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
< 1571051991 297476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd
< 1571052003 96320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elliodd
< 1571052006 435580 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1571052009 142970 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: this youtube thingy says it's "live", but then, I've see so many things in television where they still have the "live" caption when it's replayed, so I don't really trust it
< 1571052024 708217 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either they should add "not live" as a caption, or add a timestamp next to "live"
< 1571052028 633226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: The live stream has ended 20ish minutes ago
< 1571052035 36418 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1571052039 53232 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "live" and also "replay"
< 1571052044 22662 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1571052046 287942 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not live
< 1571052359 147018 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun Taneb fact: I have what is to my knowlege the largest collection of autographed Haskell textbooks
< 1571052374 152831 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have two)
< 1571052465 374052 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how many of those did you autograph yourself?
< 1571052512 771788 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: zero, they are both autographed by the respective author
< 1571052540 838293 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one by Graham Hutton and one by Simon Marlow)
< 1571052557 263346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :HSE... RWH maybe?
< 1571052583 932676 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming in Haskell (second edition) and Paralle and Concurrent Program ming in Haskell
< 1571052589 105181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1571052596 187174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, LYAHFAGG would earn you negative points.
< 1571052640 849393 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, there are more Haskell textbooks than I thought.
< 1571052704 728274 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn people who taneb is not//Taneb is not elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first, or anyone older than Queen Elizabeth the Second. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
< 1571052706 741970 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'people who taneb is not': Taneb is not elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first, or anyone older than Queen Elizabeth the Second. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
> 1571055533 915132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66652&oldid=66648 5* 03A 5* (+124) 10/* Implementation */
< 1571055594 460583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : Btw, LYAHFAGG would earn you negative points. => hm but it’s where I learned about zippers first
< 1571055695 187492 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: if you ever start a collection of haskell textbooks, this is the one you hide in the attic.
< 1571055719 29009 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all I was saying ;)
< 1571055758 424727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously I'm compleeeetly objective about this.
< 1571055782 428447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not tainted by personal opiona at all.
< 1571056304 763910 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm hm :D
< 1571056313 767312 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opiona" 
< 1571056330 897901 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what does the second A stand for in "LYAHFAGG"?
< 1571056347 335719 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :my one concern is that its density is pretty low
< 1571056431 139737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I thought there was an "a" there. I didn't check.
< 1571056646 454676 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, that means you can't even effectively use it as a doorstopper
< 1571056687 913429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Yes, I've marvelled at "opiona" as well... :)
< 1571056699 605628 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stroke of genius. Or maybe just a stroke. Who knows.
< 1571056740 260638 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you have an opiona on the opiuma crisis?
< 1571056740 397603 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: as soon as i get the feeling i'm saying the point of
< 1571056819 148045 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you should become a politician
< 1571056819 221167 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and besides, some people don't
< 1571056826 167482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: exactly
< 1571056826 398196 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: on the other hand i you *do* have install priviledges then it's much too dark as well :) just trying that now. well, maybe
< 1571056853 554448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"priviledges"
< 1571057104 71732 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doorstoper reminds me of this old strip https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2006-12-14
< 1571057162 992695 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: rofol
< 1571057213 399587 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : A stroke of genius. Or maybe just a stroke. Who knows. => please don’t give genii strokes, it’s bad for their healths
< 1571057326 820989 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: rofol => I meant the first doorstopper message but I’ve seen that strip too
< 1571057379 798410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won’t say “rofol” on a cruel humor, it would be too much even if it has some fun :)
> 1571057766 885666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66653&oldid=66652 5* 03A 5* (+15) 10/* Implementation */
< 1571058588 813069 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571058680 513953 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571060311 461865 :mnickru!~Thunderbi@97.78.32.95.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571060766 10002 :mnickru!~Thunderbi@97.78.32.95.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571063468 710025 :mnickru!~Thunderbi@97.78.32.95.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571063525 215625 :mnickru!~Thunderbi@97.78.32.95.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru QUIT :Client Quit
< 1571063721 341268 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571063990 430594 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571064104 982362 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571064218 991030 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1571064643 339717 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1571064799 537112 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting about IOCCC!
< 1571064857 568675 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello rain1
< 1571064862 843864 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1571067834 323636 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571067986 999303 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571068116 54999 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571068116 171350 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571069435 536346 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571069724 959543 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571069834 944242 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571071346 893407 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1571071407 298475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:AnimaLibera14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66654&oldid=66539 5* 03AnimaLibera 5* (+36) 10
< 1571072224 877150 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571072650 786380 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ESSB
< 1571072651 76767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESSB 141650Z 35004KT 320V030 9999 FEW022 08/07 Q1014
< 1571073449 995744 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571074117 30018 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571075312 942193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571078983 530722 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1571079173 182915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 150*(mile=:1609.344)
< 1571079173 926189 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 241402
< 1571083593 760381 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:101a:da84:0:14:fca1:f101 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1571083793 186545 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571085040 570890 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571085845 35413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Refp 5*  10New user account
< 1571086004 386389 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571086257 873049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am prone to crash into nostalgia and it’s bad and unconstructive
< 1571086382 451210 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I hopelessly tried to find a photo of a place which isn’t the same anymore as it was rebuilt several years ago. And I don’t know if it persisted and from which mobile phone it was shoot at all, maybe from the one which isn’t turning on anymore
< 1571086438 973115 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if the data exists, the thing exists" is a fallacy I run into.
< 1571086463 151081 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I flagged several photos as broken in filenames and added some code to my program for filling in creation date of a file when it’s newer than its modification date (yep that happens)
< 1571086463 351539 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why I take photos of everything and stow them away like a squirrel. it isn't healthy and it's not constructive.
< 1571086479 939059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: :(
< 1571086530 650349 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not that even that place was significant to me to be in, it just had a funny design of its name
< 1571086545 388358 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not that
< 1571086607 416812 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a cafe inside a big place, the place got rebuild and I won’t walk in its old layout anymore, and it’s a bit sad, and in that cafe I don’t remember to be in
< 1571086624 297672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it’s not that sad
< 1571086629 418860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the name design
< 1571086667 729637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I was stupid to clean some DVDs with a version of the not-so-yearly backup
< 1571086673 160233 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be useful too
< 1571086754 831444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were some DVD-Rs which persisted only because I couldn’t clear them. And later they proved to be useful, even
< 1571086779 316572 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being made in approx. 2008
< 1571086794 71640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s just silly
< 1571086945 370261 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571088578 920898 :diverger!~div@195.12.48.214 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571088708 298109 :diverger!~div@195.12.48.214 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571088759 851968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: taking photos of everything and filing them away is a good thing. it is constructive. 
< 1571088810 913473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you imagine the growing pile of picture creeping up on you and burying you under an avalanche of impressions to sort through.
< 1571088833 13111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? alice
< 1571088833 989214 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
< 1571091598 93096 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1571093488 734243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I haven't been taking enough pictures, and I spent way too little time sorting through them and publishing the ones that I should publish, and I feel some amount of shame about that. but a growing pile creeping? nah, that'll never happen
< 1571093508 759288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I am somewhat conservative with how many pictures I take
< 1571093519 986325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1571094332 565563 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ijslxaywhrdcvync QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1571094366 256024 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-npcepdwkfdthaoql JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571094562 913153 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2514:b596:5fe5:64ce QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571095407 535150 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we should just wait for arriving of a good AI photo sorter, no worries about piles, why
< 1571095611 571783 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“these twenty photos are almost the same, these eight are all blurry, these three differ in these details, these eleven I don’t advise to look for too closely due to too many arthropodes depicted”
< 1571095632 37811 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first comma should be a colon instead
< 1571095716 374389 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you look at all twenty two of them anyway as you think there could have been false negatives and interesting artistic possibilities
< 1571095810 389235 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two extra ones due to a flaw in AI so that when it inspects images, it sometimes adds their weighted averages to the mix
< 1571096192 245359 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1571096306 520581 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571097222 935573 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571098012 490459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you into sat solvers yet
< 1571098321 295591 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1571098329 387688 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been into them for brief periods in the past
< 1571098338 771010 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to use sat solvers to run Game of Life backwards
< 1571098341 579526 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't get it working
< 1571098512 359987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading Knuth's fancy thing that does that.
< 1571098815 977051 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571099245 981934 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571099690 877022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571100399 240474 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1571100505 695150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in TAOCP volume 4 fascicle 6.
< 1571100551 638103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's a program at http://bach.istc.kobe-u.ac.jp/lect/taocp-sat/knuth/pdf/sat-life.pdf ?
< 1571100634 804808 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TACOP
< 1571102877 93237 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1571115872 495011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under what conditions does a programming language have quines?
< 1571116525 357963 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee07-58.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571117255 268718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to figure out whether the existence of quines was a direct consequence of Lawvere's fixed point theorem.
< 1571117269 407396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's surely related, but the construction is usually somewhat different.
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< 1571124537 620403 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571124713 666033 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm pretty sure any Turing-complete language whose programs can be enumerated has a quine, by the s-n-m theorem.
< 1571124731 76689 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-m-n theorem.  whetevr.  it's early.
< 1571124831 454501 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "running a program" in the language has to considered to be able to produce an integer, or whatever the programs are enumerated with.
< 1571124859 518870 :MDead!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1571125065 736975 :MDead!~MDude@76.5.108.106 NICK :MDude
< 1571125112 709177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1571125396 863139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@teill arseniiv "we should just wait for arriving of a good AI photo sorter" <-- I'm waiting for the AI that will create the photos that I should have taken
< 1571125396 963935 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1571125674 209624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571125831 870372 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the subject of quines, I was reading about Richard's paradox last night, and if I'm not mistaken, a Richardian number is basically the same as a https://esolangs.org/wiki/Narcissist 
< 1571125863 304071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleene%27s_recursion_theorem has an answer to my question.
< 1571126153 566091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hmm, what's interesting about this paradox as opposed to all the other well-known paradoxes that seem identical to it?
< 1571126163 929956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe it's just old.
< 1571126282 911834 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571126384 25452 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it when trying to research why lambda calculus and combinatory logic are not used as deductive systems, even though they were invented as deductive systems. The Kleene-Rosser paradox that shows that ^c is inconsistent, is apparently more or less a version of Richard's paradox.
< 1571126384 643943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh I didn't know of that paradox. Of course on a formal level it'll be resolved by Tarski's theorem
< 1571126414 634583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't particularly see narcissists as very interestingly different from quines, though it's possible I'm missing something there.
< 1571126480 888642 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tarski's theorem = undefinablility of truth. The sentence whose truth is of interest here is "F defines a unique real number")
< 1571126481 715007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to imagine that every Turing-complete language admits a quine. How could it not?
< 1571126506 511949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you're playing games with encoding, which don't seem that interesting to me.)
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< 1571126553 408122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC-ness doesn't require any output capability (beyond one bit).
< 1571126593 14652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's true. One semibit.
< 1571126616 974315 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a mathematical truth value.
< 1571126629 236244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess I don't care about that too much. I'm looking for interesting ways in which languages can fail to have quines.
< 1571126649 234996 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a weird three-state bit.
< 1571126670 202107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which truth value are you talking about in particular? Halts/doesn't halt?
< 1571126721 899082 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :accept/doesn't accept
< 1571126747 692151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sure, I guess.
< 1571126753 661573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have some wild cases that never halt.
< 1571126769 278670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here's a different question.
< 1571126776 746445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm actually not sure how to phrase this question.
< 1571126817 790183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawvere's theorem is along the lines of, say you a function : A -> (A -> B) which is surjective. Then every function : B -> B must have a fixed point.
< 1571126833 988950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For appropriate values of "function" and "surjective" and "(A -> B)".)
> 1571126847 964628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66655&oldid=65529 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+332) 10Expand lead a little bit
< 1571126849 167796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have
< 1571126870 549160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: any TC formalism will allow the kind of circularity that Kleene's fixed point theorem embodies. I.E. a program can contain a full description of itself, suitable for simulation or other analysis.
< 1571126883 840283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, that's what I was getting at.
< 1571126903 714599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I agree that it's really hard to capture this more rigorously.
< 1571126916 347464 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems more interesting than insisting on quines which gets into a bunch of nonsense.
< 1571126928 507157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that question was about sub-TC systems.
< 1571126955 680021 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the most part, Quines are just cute programming puzzles of no real importance.
< 1571126960 592460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly some of those can still create quines (and use the same techniques that you'd normally use, not something one-off).
< 1571126981 996543 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on the subject of quines: https://github.com/dpiponi/infinite-quine
< 1571126984 96771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm certainly not concerned with the quine itself.
< 1571127042 91351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a notion of I/O-completeness on the wiki. An O-complete TC language has quines.
< 1571127042 322654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, on Lawvere's theorem.
< 1571127075 863980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call A and B? I'm tempted to call A "Name", where A names an element of A -> B
< 1571127097 268122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And with that element in turn an A names a B.)
< 1571127108 884810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surjectivity means that everything has a name.
< 1571127131 539350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One concrete example is A as any set, and B as 2, which gives you Cantor's theorem.
< 1571127171 249262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can map elements of A to subsets of A such that every subset can be named by an element, then ¬ : 2 -> 2 has a fixed point.
< 1571127260 511205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is (A -> B) the right codomain here in general?
< 1571127355 771323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's clearly not the question I want to be asking.
< 1571127483 302132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe instead of B=2 I should take an example with an arbitrary B.
< 1571127504 770652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Y combinator gives you fixed points for any function : B -> B this way.
< 1571127836 989055 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571127890 938486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I guess you can say that eval : A -> (A -> B) is a two-argument function doing the same sort of thing Q(x, y) is?
< 1571127901 884483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no, that's nonsense.
< 1571127974 631296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you phrase "eval : A -> (A -> B) is surjective" on an uncurried function eval : A×A -> B?
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< 1571129542 525790 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SK-calculus known to be confluent? I mean it *must* be, right?  I've just never seen anyone say anything about it one way or the other.
< 1571129618 59446 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably show it just by showing that the translation to lambda calculus preserves confluence.
< 1571129618 823272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean something other than the confluence you get if you expand every S and K to lambdas?
< 1571129928 283953 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confluence as a rewriting system?
< 1571129963 113522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess that makes more sense.
< 1571129999 44242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of SK, I still don't understand why BCKW is a good system.
< 1571130014 565730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already like it but I'd like to like it for a good reason.
< 1571130037 753641 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I found it easier to understand the translation between lambda calculus and BCKW than lambda calculus and SK
< 1571130072 725600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd like is a connection to reordering, weakening, and contraction.
< 1571130110 951906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the lambda calculus translation?
< 1571130145 397741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: SK and SKI are confluent
< 1571130165 454496 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, this was about 8 years ago I did this
< 1571130172 400289 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near when I was first in here
< 1571130202 820536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still in the top ten in here hth
< 1571130218 900211 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571130227 778720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: They are orthogonal first-order term rewriting systems. This is usually shown by introducing a parallel reduction relation and something called a "parallel moves lemma" that shows that that relation has the diamond property (ensuring confluence); the terminology is similar to that used for the lambda calculus but the proofs are actually quite a bit simpler.
< 1571130253 680701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I forgot, did you mention having looked at Baader/Nipkow's book on term rewriting?
< 1571130293 559468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that stuff is all covered in that book)
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< 1571130320 349106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe the concrete case of combinatory logic
< 1571130443 956265 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, orthogonal = left-linear (no duplicate variables in left-hand sides of rules) + absence of critical pairs (which you might know from Knuth/Bendix completion or the corresponding confluence criterion for terminating systems).
< 1571130509 200335 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do you also approach these systems from a point of view of abstraction elimination?
< 1571130532 668856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BCKW(I) and SK(I))
< 1571130555 268517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hrm. I want SBCKI, I don't like W at all.
< 1571130578 779037 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBICK
< 1571130603 361444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :W is supposed to replace S presumably, as the only combinator that does duplication.
< 1571130607 650854 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571130611 257010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you like W?
< 1571130612 416172 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: you missed the oppertunity there: BSICK (be sick)
< 1571130634 434052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because it has no immediate use for abstraction elimination
< 1571130634 786622 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1571130668 760887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x. M[x] N[x] -> S (\x.M[x]) (\x.N[x])
< 1571130703 147550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with BCKW you artificially (to my mind) deduplicate the x first, ... -> W (\x1 x2. M[x1] N[x2]) x.
< 1571130757 130942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might be interested in talking about substructural logic.
< 1571130774 96347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually not.
< 1571130779 395018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could be interested in what you get with BCK without W, for instance.
< 1571130794 39689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I also get that from SBCKI by dropping the S.
< 1571130849 864333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the flavour of duplication offered by W; I prefer the flavor offered by S.
< 1571130855 683723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it in a nutshell.
< 1571130856 787086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The S is serving multiple purposes, I guess.
< 1571130879 77740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like S but I'm curious whether a simpler basis will let you pick out parts you like better.
< 1571130902 45334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is there a standard combinatory basis for some kind of linear lambda calculus?
< 1571130903 551860 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm definitely not approaching this from a logical perspective. My first encounter of combinatory logic was as a model of computation.
< 1571130906 925590 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571130941 329443 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sure, BCI is the standard basis for that, add K if you allow deletion.
< 1571130957 378604 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I'd have to imagine that every Turing-complete language admits a quine. How could it not?" => only if they can do universal IO
< 1571130968 93601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like B and C precisely because they capture linearity.
< 1571130979 72686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that SK hides.
< 1571130979 971327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Yes, see the discussion below.
< 1571130989 724843 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait, I'll read on
< 1571130992 358860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you turn a lambda term into BCKW?
< 1571131004 37357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see.
< 1571131012 939627 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCKW => we just had a discussion about that
< 1571131028 228744 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/people/samson.abramsky/pcpt.pdf
< 1571131053 51862 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have \x. M[x] N -> X (\x.M[x]) N, \x. M N[x] -> Y M (\x.N[x]), where X,Y \in {B,C}.
< 1571131059 979367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember which is which.
< 1571131075 29208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that PDF indeed makes the connection I wanted.
< 1571131101 415559 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't quite know what you mean by abstraction elimination (my brain isn't fully awake yet)
< 1571131105 702798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So these look like specializations of \x. M[x] N[x] -> S (\x.M[x]) (\x.N[x]) when x does not occur freely in N or M)
< 1571131112 28569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :delambdification?
< 1571131113 30973 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBCKI would be better, I think
< 1571131124 191976 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, there are no non-empty quines in geo because it can only output decimal integers (followed by a newline), but the source has to have "print" in it to output anything
< 1571131147 357766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the process of starting from a lambda term (which has lambda-abstractions) and turning it into an equivalent (in some sense) abstraction-free term using your combinator basis
< 1571131162 440135 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this probably isn't an interesting reason
< 1571131172 886274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: OK, but I already said that that's an encoding detail that I don't find interesting.
< 1571131221 941181 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I think that's what I do
< 1571131250 626119 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" For the most part, Quines are just cute programming puzzles of no real importance." => Smullyan and Hofstadter would disagree 
< 1571131328 138882 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: "quine" is just a surface phenomenon (a program that prints its own source code)... you need much more to make it computationally interesting
< 1571131379 404124 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right, that's why Golf SE tried to qualify interesting quines with a rule, so that non-cheating quines are ones that are useful for building self-referential programs
< 1571131385 132910 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Right, yes. I've read Baader and Nipkow, also some other texts on term rewriting. Didn't remember about orthogonality of term rewrite systems. Didn't really occur to me at the time to look at SK-calculus as a rewrite system. And I guess lots of other ppl don't usually look at it that way either.
< 1571131410 327053 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, in particular, empty quines, or quines that are just a numeral in languages that echo a numeral, are considered cheating for them
< 1571131501 307365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` dc <<<6581840dnP
< 1571131502 545450 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :6581840dnP
< 1571131540 24554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I like this connection to polynomial time.
< 1571131555 976818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know good ways of talking about computational complexity for lambda calculus at all.
< 1571131570 338053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a quine, but hardly interesting from a logical perspective... there's no real quoting (quining) going on here.
< 1571131615 225890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's fair. Happy to help with connecting dots :)
< 1571131624 764504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine lambda calculus is just bad at talking about things like time and space constraints.
< 1571131638 597334 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, KBCSI => yeah, that could work
< 1571131649 665831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since reduction is so unrealistic.
< 1571131698 613844 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my problem is sort of that all of these get weird if you try to abstraction-eliminate multiple variables
< 1571131730 765043 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so could I instead advocate Amicus, which deals with functions of multiple variables naturally?
< 1571131837 765064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«It was always hard for many to comprehend how Cantor’s mathematical theorem could be re-christened as a ”paradox“ by Russell and how Gödel’s theorem could be so often declared to be the most significant result of the 20th century. There was always the suspicion among scientists that such extra-mathematical publicity movements concealed an agenda for re-establishing belief as a substitute for s
< 1571131843 723005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cience. Now, one hundred years after ...
< 1571131846 232036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Gödel’s birth, the organized attempts to harness his great mathematical work to such an agenda have become explicit.»
< 1571131905 932916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: The other thing that makes writing quine more of a puzzle is that ultimately the quining process is very automatic (one cute trick: take a description of a program P(x) that takes a description of a program Q and produces Q([Q]) by whatever notation) but you have a lot of leeway in choosing the encoding for Q, so that's what the focus tends to be on.
< 1571132000 164572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end 6581840dnP doesn't depart from the core idea at all... but the encoding is chosen such that both priting [Q] and printing Q is done by a single dc instruction.
< 1571132098 916822 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no no, the argument Q is printed by [n] instruction, the program Q is pritned by the [P] instruction
< 1571132117 836765 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: You may have mis-parsed what I wrote.
< 1571132158 339818 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dc -e 6581840dn
< 1571132158 933807 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :6581840
< 1571132162 275914 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dc -e 6581840dP
< 1571132164 681275 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnP
< 1571132170 488030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I KNOW HOW IT WORKS DAMNIT
< 1571132180 741730 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sorry, but I wasn't sure how it worked
< 1571132194 933975 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't write dc stuff and the instructions are weird
< 1571132204 696778 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to test it
< 1571132277 851147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I came up with that quine myself some years ago. But it's obvious enough that I would be surprised if I was the first.)
< 1571132368 144107 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. the perl quine that starts with print<< x2,$/ is also like that, multiple people come up with it independently by simply trying to write a very short quine
< 1571132393 952710 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas some of the other perl quines that I wrote are much less canonical
< 1571132447 326010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
< 1571132449 97107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
< 1571132456 28171 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=835076 these for example
< 1571132500 232609 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have ones like
< 1571132508 342832 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint+("`perl -eprint+(","\"",",","\\",")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]
< 1571132509 2893 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint+("`perl -eprint+(","\"",",","\\",")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]
< 1571132521 385225 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the order of the strings in the list is totally arbitrary
< 1571132542 866038 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint+("\\","\"",",","`perl -eprint+(",")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]
< 1571132542 957808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does this pattern fit into the Lawvere theorem form?
< 1571132543 563546 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint+("\\","\"",",","`perl -eprint+(",")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]
< 1571132797 852842 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a perl quine by mtve that has only ascii punctuation and spaces. I don't know how it works, but perhaps it also helps with your string eval question: https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=836752
< 1571133715 414955 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, really... 'In late 2011, Intel [35]introduced a performance enhancement to its line of server processors that allowed network cards and other peripherals to connect directly to a CPU's last-level cache'
< 1571133744 949478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[35] is https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/data-direct-i-o-technology.html
< 1571133821 663294 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :context is https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/09/another_side_ch.html (I'm reading the october CRYPTO-GRAM)
< 1571133835 632020 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that's what spawned all the rumors about NSA backdoors
< 1571133880 202185 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised I missed this.
< 1571133918 960312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't miss the ME stuff (which is a backdoor by design, if you look at it cynically enough)
< 1571133927 173157 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's one of the things that spawned the rumors at least
< 1571133939 563184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean ME = management engine)
< 1571133978 737962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IME is the official abbreviation.
< 1571133983 826758 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how about the enclave thing, that lets you create encrypted parts of the memory that can run code but where the rest of the programs that the cpu runs can't read that code and its state?
< 1571134027 291786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't miss that either... I see it as related really.
< 1571134058 366921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's also a bit of the extension of the decades old system manangement mode.)
< 1571134106 214620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, when you have f.g = id, what should you call f and g?
< 1571134117 259651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"left inverse" and "right inverse" is too confusing, I think.
< 1571134124 151676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, SMM is almost as invasive, also based on hiding a region of memory, just not /designed/ to be secure.
< 1571134143 81473 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should consider the other side though. rather than keeping all the technology that they use for the backdoors a secret that nobody will find unless they spend a man-decade of studying electron-microscope scans, they benevolently document all the backdoor capabilities of the cpu so that you can write high performance backdoors too
< 1571134144 645962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: left inverse of g; right inverse of f.
< 1571134154 130682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been going with "retraction" and "section" but I'm suspecting that's not so great either.
< 1571134155 905742 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exclusive to the NSA, you can backdoor the bios too
< 1571134173 713961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The problem is that if you say "f is a right inverse", I have to write down the thing to see what's going on.
< 1571134258 312665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the intuition I want is "object" and "name": Every object has at least one name, and you can pick out a canonical name (at least if you have choice).
< 1571134289 947972 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would every object have at least one name? no way
< 1571134296 841269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: It's not even necessary to involve the NSA as a driver here... SMM was introduced to simulate legacy hardware capabilities. Secure enclaves can be perfectly explained by the desire to enforce copyright. Data direct I/O addresses a genuine (if very high-end) performance problem.
< 1571134303 85550 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not when the names come from a countable set and the objects come from a bigger one
< 1571134309 636633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does in this case, because you have a surjection.
< 1571134329 645405 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what is SMM?
< 1571134347 296728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a better terminology where I can easily remember which set is the bigger one and which function goes in which direction?
< 1571134352 396529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I mean I would be surprised if the NSA were not involved in this at all... they are too big. But I don't think they have to do anything beyond subtle nudging here.
< 1571134358 260554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: System Management Mode
< 1571134368 725743 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure
< 1571134387 413752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Not sure when that was introduced, i386 or i486 maybe? Around that time I think.
< 1571134388 374524 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't mean that it has to be the NSA specifically, that's just the name that people use in rumors
< 1571134432 639066 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but in reality it's usually the big secret agencies of all other countries that puts the backdoors there, rather than the secret agency of your country
< 1571134455 538846 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: system management mode, how does that differ from ME?
< 1571134456 196731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMM can be used for things like simulating the AT keyboard interface (port 60h/61h) for USB hardware.
< 1571134465 77147 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in i386? no way
< 1571134476 21863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: It runs on the same processor.
< 1571134504 156065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that certain I/O operations can trigger a software emulation layer. Nothing really deep.
< 1571134523 204673 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, ok
< 1571134532 454627 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'It was first released with the Intel 386SL.'
< 1571134621 131035 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah, so five years after the 386
< 1571134625 105196 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more believable
> 1571134627 449355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66656&oldid=66655 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+599) 10More describing language overview
< 1571134634 257515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ME is a full (but less powerful) separate core... that's a fairly recent thing.
< 1571134719 80336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even there its existence can be explained in a perfectly innocent way.
< 1571134821 347584 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initializing a processor (memory subsystem (training DRAM, probably other I/O lines as well)) has become so complex that it's better to do it in software than in pure hardware. As a bonus, you get the ability to work around some hardware bugs in software. Now if you're Intel, which hardware platform are you likely to use for this?
< 1571134872 535051 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel did use a 3rd party architecture (ARC) for the ME for a long time until they switched to a x86 core AFAIK
< 1571134880 935395 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now you have a separate processor on your die... and it's dormant for most of the system's operation. That's stupid maybe you can find a use for it? ... and suddenly you end up with an ME-like device.
< 1571134941 884483 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I found quite funny, given the origin of ARC as the superfx chip used in starfox on the super nintendo)
< 1571134943 60233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course the architecture is secondary. If it's a universal machine... it can be used for arbitrary purposes.)
< 1571134977 383791 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now if you're Intel, which hardware platform are you likely to use for this?" => I'm not familiar with the licensing situation of cpus really
< 1571135024 312512 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel tried to make a GPU out of X86.
< 1571135079 58470 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are trying to make... according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_(microarchitecture) they've revived that project.
< 1571135129 276359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel is back at it with Larrabee?
< 1571135135 760165 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason I can think of why they didn't went with x86 in the first place is that an ARC core is smaller than what intel had at that time
< 1571135136 927753 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that sounds like a ... ugh
< 1571135145 690020 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, a gpu out of x86?
< 1571135183 545895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The timing makes sense actually... now that we want to do raytracing with (I suspect) hardly predictable memory access patterns, the SIMT model will run into severe problems.)
< 1571135194 603008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Intel.
< 1571135211 20683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That page is very ambiguous about it.
< 1571135212 994822 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: The ones with the 0x8086 vendor id.
< 1571135222 103813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PCI)
< 1571135226 73751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather it's not ambiguous enough. Is there any definite connection to Larrabee?
< 1571135471 733799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find any tangible evidence of that connection either.
< 1571135478 723725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's Intel ;-)
< 1571135612 600440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, it definitely *tried*, which was my main point.
< 1571137288 78393 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1006:b9e6:0:14:fd83:f401 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571137296 852734 :anima!~androirc@2a04:cec0:1006:b9e6:0:14:fd83:f401 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1571137680 961384 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : But I'm definitely not approaching this from a logical perspective. My first encounter of combinatory logic was as a model of computation.  <-- That would seem to be the dominant paradigm for it these days. But I'm interested in the logical perspective of it atm. I guess you can write proofs in SKI by treating it like the Hilbert system it was derived from. But you can't use the deduction theorem
< 1571137682 329466 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brevity, you have to write it all out in full.
< 1571137718 680083 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds awful, but it also sound like you could "compile" a sentence in first-order logic, into it.
< 1571137790 676623 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first encounter of combinatory logic was unlambda
< 1571137796 825972 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather I think I mean, "compile" a proof written in natural deduction style in FOL, into it.
< 1571137939 258127 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Under the Curry–Howard correspondence, the above conversion process for the deduction meta-theorem is analogous to the conversion process from lambda calculus terms to terms of combinatory logic" oh. Well. Okay then
< 1571137944 216250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: W makes perfect sense if you have an explicit rule for duplicating premises in a sequent
< 1571137978 929116 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: which W is that?
< 1571137993 611136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C f x = f x x one
< 1571138005 100122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh
< 1571138006 261469 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W combinator#
< 1571138012 311028 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :W f x = f x x
< 1571138031 923498 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic
< 1571138034 375727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is there another?)
< 1571138115 904750 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571138137 602770 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's its bird name?
< 1571138139 186218 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just hoping you weren't referring to some System W that I'd never heard of.  Anyway yes.  W is dup and C is swap and this is Forth
< 1571138392 71888 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if the answer to my (unspoken) question "What's one of the simplest languages in which a proof can be stated and mechanically checked?" is "SK-calculus" then I guess my question becomes "How complex would a compiler from a tolerable proof language, to SK-terms, be?"
< 1571138421 282481 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on what you'd call tolerable
< 1571138428 981194 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell to SK should be pretty easy
< 1571138459 308793 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, we do that manually in first semester here
< 1571138480 897764 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You convert proofs written in Haskell into proofs written in SKI-calculus?
< 1571138528 685409 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not proofs as such but small programms to lambda calculus and lambda calculus to SKI
< 1571138539 578057 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing I should be fairly easy
< 1571138985 716179 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only remember the bird name of two combinators really: S is seregély and K is vércse
< 1571139016 388040 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do we have a link from the wiki to the crocodile family interpretation of lambda calculus_
< 1571139035 846339 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't. I'll have to add one
< 1571139092 261546 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't those alligators?
< 1571139108 957921 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, alligators
< 1571139129 5519 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is clearly for cancel
< 1571139245 890780 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: what is that?
> 1571139313 249021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66657&oldid=58720 5* 03B jonas 5* (+732) 10Alligator eggs
< 1571139326 537002 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ^
< 1571139354 213118 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like them that much
< 1571139475 497379 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birdlife: Kestrels compete with starlings for nest cavities
< 1571139488 923023 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that there was so much competition in the SK world.
> 1571139663 764420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66658&oldid=66657 5* 03B jonas 5* (+16) 10/* External resources */
> 1571142163 263457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66659&oldid=66653 5* 03A 5* (-9) 10/* Implementation */
> 1571143782 538361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66660&oldid=66656 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1032) 10Create partially-filled-out table of primitive Wagon macros.
> 1571144339 9055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66661&oldid=66660 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1074) 10Finish the primitives stable. No longer a stub, I think.
> 1571149178 455583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66662&oldid=60398 5* 03Camto 5* (+19) 10Lmao
> 1571149256 544607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66663&oldid=66662 5* 03Camto 5* (+6) 10Rewording
> 1571149442 901085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66664&oldid=66663 5* 03Camto 5* (-70) 10Friendship ended with OOT Now Thue is my best friend
> 1571149472 382768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66665&oldid=66664 5* 03Camto 5* (+6) 10Aha
> 1571149574 264797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66666&oldid=66665 5* 03Camto 5* (+7) 10BF dialecs
< 1571151464 685527 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: ...
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< 1571154585 608121 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571154586 110562 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571156765 177823 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571158923 391215 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571159381 289250 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571159381 365686 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1571159381 365732 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571159814 39812 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
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< 1571160903 554896 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571161138 593867 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571161552 409523 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.27.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a thought to take from J its part-of-speech terminolody and strange rules (which I don’t know) and from Lojban its puristic non-european-centric approach to terminology and that to result in an obfuscation-first language but it would need more good ideas
< 1571161567 822321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571161932 115377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have a silly idea
< 1571161975 850206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :épelung: a spelling reform for the English language where you spell words the same as the most corresponding etymologically related word in modern German or modern French
< 1571162017 642407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like it probably has a canonical execution somewhere on the internet, but searching for "épelung" or "épeleung" shows that those words are quasi-nonexistent, and what else would you call this system?
< 1571162161 62296 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/ShadowyBumpyLinkedlist
< 1571162341 126493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it is call, perhaps, is English without English.
< 1571163016 457824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yesterday's SMBC http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/mathematicians about matrix multiplication algorithm asymptotics is fun
< 1571163376 511979 :FaeFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1571163951 344936 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571165869 606637 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
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< 1571169390 314385 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.3.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh int-e I’ve just read what you @told that time
< 1571169417 977033 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.3.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m so fast
< 1571171070 45894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make text formatting in PostScript? To implement printer output in the implementation of Z-machine in PostScript, I should know how to do that.
< 1571171791 446597 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1571172944 247813 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.oO(A legendary land that enters untapped and taps for one mana of any colour that could not be produced by your other mana in play.)
< 1571172988 27327 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other lands* in play
< 1571172997 210742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that might do.
< 1571173002 587034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a card?
< 1571173008 456574 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1571173014 735745 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be kind of interesting
< 1571173048 155879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any lands on the battlefield or any lands you control?
< 1571173072 700982 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1571173081 129492 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lands you control, probably?
< 1571173081 238729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it also be tapped for colorless?
< 1571173156 697436 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any lands on the battlefield (including your opponents') might make it unusable
< 1571173191 369774 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it'd be able to tap for colourless, but obviously that could be a variation on the idea
< 1571173628 958769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have more than one land with that ability, then what? Rule 106.7 doesn't seem to mention if they interfere with each other in this way.
< 1571173638 522527 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, rule 106.7 could be fixed so that it does work.)
< 1571173691 473457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, it's a legendary land anyway.
< 1571173699 793612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there are still ways to work around that.
< 1571173725 553350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. Mirror Gallery)
< 1571173848 838264 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it should be considered a land that could produce mana of any colour, so that it shuts off any other copies of itself entirely.
< 1571173874 690242 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but yeah, there's a funny paradox there)
< 1571173894 336365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's much of a paradox.
< 1571173904 646898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe.
< 1571173910 484864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit different from other mana abilities.
< 1571173932 153469 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost exactly Russell's paradox :D
< 1571173978 425263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I meant that answers to this kind of question are established.
< 1571174014 195667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that rule 106.7 does not say only mana abilities or only activated abilities.
< 1571174133 47723 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how about a land that can produce 2 mana of any colour that you have no devotion to?
< 1571174156 250672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is another possibility, I think.
< 1571174160 862534 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be too good for activated abilities...
< 1571174170 754275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, I suppose so
< 1571174183 207289 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe base it on color identity
< 1571174325 85800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: how does that behave if you have such a land and a Forest in play and the opponent has a Plains and an Exotic Orchard in play?
< 1571174325 178441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In RDF format, "add one mana of any color that no other land you control could produce" might be something like:  [:add-mana [:choose [:and :color, [:not [:any-could-produce [:and :land, [:controller :you], [:not :this]]]]]]]]
< 1571174432 914113 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm not sure, does Exotic Orchard usually care about predicates that restrict mana abilities?
< 1571174481 261431 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "Exotic Orchard doesn’t care about any restrictions or riders your opponents’ lands (such as Ancient Ziggurat or Hall of the Bandit Lord) put on the mana they produce. It just cares about colors of mana."
< 1571174482 488539 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is another case. Rule 106.7 mentions Exotic Orchard as an example.
< 1571174515 328482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: or more simply, how does it work if you have that land and a Forest and Reflecting Pool in play, and the opponent has four Plains?
< 1571174522 860355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that what you quoted is clear enough from the rules I think, but it is not relevant to the case you have here
< 1571174540 290667 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay
< 1571174618 427325 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, it does actually care about the state of the cards in play
< 1571174636 991556 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lands that produce mana based only on what other lands “could produce” won’t help each other unless some other land allows one of them to actually produce some type of mana. For example, if you control an Exotic Orchard and your opponent controls an Exotic Orchard and a Reflecting Pool, none of those lands would produce mana if their mana abilities were activated. On the other hand, if you control a Forest and an Exotic Orc
< 1571174637 154427 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard, and your opponent controls an Exotic Orchard and a Reflecting Pool, then each of those lands can be tapped to produce Green. Your opponent’s Exotic Orchard can produce Green because you control a Forest. Your Exotic Orchard and your opponent’s Reflecting Pool can each produce Green because your opponent’s Exotic Orchard can produce Green.
< 1571174724 753436 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's an additional weird twist when it's "can't produce"
< 1571174790 845928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, all of that you mentioned is what would be done by rule 106.7. But, yes, the "can't produce" can result in no stable result, it seem like.
< 1571174994 216954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would think that the RDF code I mentioned probably wouldn't compile (if a compiler for it were implemented), or if it does compile, result in an infinite loop or stack overflow.)
< 1571175110 512101 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few sensible ways that one could clarify what happens, like explicitly disallowing cycles in the determination of whether an ability can produce mana of a given type.
< 1571175145 575514 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was also my idea about how to amend rule 106.7
< 1571175179 881172 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571175255 657071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that if you put this effect into the triggered ability of a Growth-like enchantment, maybe it becomes impossible to make a cycle, but I'm not really sure
< 1571175423 571513 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that triggered ability is not an ability of a land, then it might work. Still, I think the rule should be amended in case
> 1571175482 237419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unlambda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66667&oldid=51370 5* 03B jonas 5* (+312) 10/* External resources */ IOCCC winner interpreter
< 1571175557 115939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, but it's hard to know whether there is a way to turn it into a land, or have an ability that cares about what mana some non-land permanents could produce, now or in future cards
< 1571175586 482643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I thought of that, which is why the rule should be amended anyways in case
< 1571175601 524912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imprisoned in the Moon can turn an existing permanent into a land
< 1571175654 337328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it deletes that permanent's abilities, too.
< 1571175712 968871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why I think that doesn't help
< 1571175853 681231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1571175933 664292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My own opinion is the rules ought to support combinations that do not currently exist.)
< 1571175970 379029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made up this land card (based on the story of the GURPS I have played):   Sun Town {-} Legendary World Land ;; Vehicles cannot enter the battlefield. ;; At the beginning of each end combat step, end the turn. ;; {T}: Add {C}. ;; {1}, {T}: Add {W}.
< 1571176031 235301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Song of the Dryads is another such card
< 1571176108 514377 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but rule 305.7 causes its abilities to be deleted.
< 1571176191 34739 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, if something else can grant it an ability, then it can be kept and rule 305.7 only deletes the abilities due to its own text.
< 1571176364 173235 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, vehicle hate
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< 1571185109 596453 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571185166 782788 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571190016 531723 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9999:3034:b6f6:e21c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571190115 573416 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/interp/zmachine.ps
< 1571190296 535724 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9999:3034:b6f6:e21c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571193301 349214 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9999:3034:b6f6:e21c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571193543 349595 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:9999:3034:b6f6:e21c QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1571193771 233563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try this file?
< 1571194159 562707 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1571194206 811889 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571194506 653838 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571197723 277509 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571197817 70673 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571197817 428148 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571199877 578308 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6
< 1571200069 866334 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571203010 868398 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571205635 166565 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kctylqwqlrmppwun QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571206813 528499 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:868:dd91:835:76c4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571207105 527809 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:868:dd91:835:76c4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571209620 160337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins
< 1571209622 366098 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06loncoin 13sherecoin 04qrabcoin 07etchercoin 082d-refcoin 09nuourcoin 02befosbacoin 06iutcoin 13vircoin 04ampatjtcoin 07subricasmigrcoin 08bucracoin 09ethonatadcoin 02stackscoin 06toncoin 13difficecoin 04disocieucoin 07melocoin 08flabcoin 09fromcoin
< 1571210216 597697 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twtkgwruomqrhihv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571210414 601419 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:11a6:bd76:7e7b:290 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571210667 596093 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:11a6:bd76:7e7b:290 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571210752 440209 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i invent `coins
< 1571210757 850960 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about `coins
< 1571210761 854706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/coins
< 1571210764 944186 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/coins
< 1571210798 914510 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently yes https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/coins
< 1571210859 436933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/words
< 1571210860 205069 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/words
< 1571210870 736099 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins irish
< 1571210872 282448 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argument "irish" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 148. \ 13coin
< 1571210879 497522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/coins
< 1571210881 74514 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :4627:2014-05-04  echo "words \\${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re \'s/( |$)/coin\\1/g\' | rainwords" > bin/coins \ 4486:2014-02-22  sed -i \'s/--eng-1M --esolangs [$]{1-/${1---eng-1M --esolangs /\' bin/coins \ 4439:2014-02-12  sed -i \'s/20/\\${1-&}/\' bin/coins; coins \ 4413:2014-02-07  printf \'%s\\n\' \'words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re \'\\\'\'s/( |$)/coin\\1/g\'\\\' | tee bin/coins \ 4412:2014-02
< 1571210892 348914 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins --irish
< 1571210895 312996 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08sclóracoin
< 1571210900 641125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doat bin/coins
< 1571210902 284142 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :4411:2014-02-07  echo \'for w in $(words --eng-1M --esolangs 20); do echo -n "${w}coin "; done\' > bin/coins && chmod +x bin/coins \ 4412:2014-02-07  echo \'words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re \'"\'"\'s/\\>/coin/g\'"\'"\'\' > bin/coins \ 4413:2014-02-07  printf \'%s\\n\' \'words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re \'\\\'\'s/( |$)/coin\\1/g\'\\\' | tee bin/coins \ 4439:2014-02-12  sed -i \'s/20/\\${1-&}/\' bin/co
< 1571210913 442031 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins
< 1571210915 217867 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04ycoin 07hebnetonuercoin 08threactrauncitacoin 09obstacoin 02tlacoin 06ace1.0coin 13bogcoin 04walphawcoin 07suracoin 08braincoin 09statecoin 02filcoin 06smrincoin 13furlmcoin 04sposcoin 07thenencoin 08orthated!coin 09weaklcoin 02forthinecoin 06231coin
< 1571210932 134160 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obstacoin is a pretty good one
< 1571210941 649471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is bogcoin
< 1571210945 129989 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins
< 1571210946 705834 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08murcoin 09gcoptercoin 02d1fycoin 06fancoin 13weakcoin 04blacoburgcoin 07blatorcoin 08entcoin 09aireoncoin 02bencoin 06dobeling-bookcoin 13prefcoin 04famutticoin 07maicoin 0850150.00coin 09choucoin 02brahcoin 06broncoin 13snmngnomeheadycoin 04alizercoin
< 1571210967 533054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you also make https://twitter.com/CryptoGenerator
< 1571210987 386764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where would it get "50150.00" from?
< 1571210996 126025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no
< 1571211704 969966 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571211716 975439 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:11a6:bd76:7e7b:290 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571212141 964969 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1571212401 783949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571213135 275567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-66.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571213419 544253 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: as for "hungry", the relevant wisdom is <-- i know, i was briefly considering making a specific wisdom for it, which would naturally mention bell peppers.
< 1571213777 86598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's this bell pepper nonsense?
< 1571214875 555360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn Hungry//Hungry is a country in Europe, formerly part of the Ostrich empire. It split after a famine that got so severe that they had to start editing disgusting things like bell peppers. Absurdly, this became a tradition that continues until the present day.
< 1571214877 778945 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'hungry': Hungry is a country in Europe, formerly part of the Ostrich empire. It split after a famine that got so severe that they had to start editing disgusting things like bell peppers. Absurdly, this became a tradition that continues until the present day.
< 1571214883 747578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: dth ?
< 1571214949 883431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1571214959 984670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd hungry//s,edit,eat,
< 1571214963 471510 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry//Hungry is a country in Europe, formerly part of the Ostrich empire. It split after a famine that got so severe that they had to start eating disgusting things like bell peppers. Absurdly, this became a tradition that continues until the present day.
< 1571214974 387630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dth
< 1571214976 514973 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
< 1571214991 327997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/sedlast
< 1571214992 8979 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :files="$(lastfiles)"; sed -i "$1" "$files"
< 1571215065 38936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sedlast s,split,& off,
< 1571215067 441511 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/hungry//Hungry is a country in Europe, formerly part of the Ostrich empire. It split off after a famine that got so severe that they had to start eating disgusting things like bell peppers. Absurdly, this became a tradition that continues until the present day.
< 1571215131 48209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: i actually like bell peppers, this wisdom is distinctly shachaf-inspired)
< 1571215172 371213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured.
< 1571215175 328934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bell pepper
< 1571215176 378061 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bell pepper? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1571215201 13114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also like broccoli and brussels sprouts hth
< 1571215247 944633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i don't have that gene i've seen mentioned
< 1571215321 829993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a gene?
< 1571215352 839601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty neutral on broccoli and sprouts. Slightly positive on Brussels.
< 1571215537 174957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc supposedly some people think the plants in that species/genus taste bitter, others don't
< 1571215589 94408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard about coriander and cilantro.
< 1571215629 545128 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571216194 548643 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.5.53.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571218675 191806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i see i should link you to our old discussion of quineless languages at https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Smjg (although the counterexamples boil down to what you call "encoding issues")
< 1571220509 717546 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571220702 718106 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571221292 18185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1571222440 980983 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571224577 553814 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571225053 452296 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: fwiw I'm reading a history of lambda-calculus and it's making several things clearer, for instance, that the parallel reductions technique was actually developed for the purpose of improving on the earliest proofs of confluence of CL :)
< 1571225116 217302 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1571225854 593433 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571226336 993255 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571226709 534669 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, "a very minimal API set that only included ~18K APIs".
< 1571226876 7078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly abridged from https://github.com/dotnet/announcements/issues/130 ... unfortunately it makes more sense in that context than it should.
< 1571226886 894504 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.5.53.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1571227011 183776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If your goal is to re-implement a massive API to support applications written for that API... then "minimal" gets a radically new perspective... namely, coverage of the API used by existing applications.)
< 1571227093 396911 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571227580 842528 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1571228146 309823 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently python 3.8.0 was released two days ago
< 1571228191 16229 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python3 -cimport sys;print(sys.version)
< 1571228192 164474 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.5.3 (default, Sep 27 2018, 17:25:39)  \ [GCC 6.3.0 20170516]
< 1571230486 23979 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571232608 432698 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :meowmeow
< 1571232667 687644 :meowmeow!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera
< 1571233328 5803 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1571233377 145007 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571237781 566249 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twtkgwruomqrhihv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571238297 94453 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571238729 879336 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571238898 965955 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571238929 571490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.5.53.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571239128 824341 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571239987 967042 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571240934 408462 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571241089 828415 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571241107 274023 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571241484 469646 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: The picture still has quite a few blank patches in it though
< 1571243439 692113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... puns! "libunbound" is a DNS resolver library.
< 1571244207 2178 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made fizzy honey
< 1571244210 938819 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv
< 1571244261 777992 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like a fine foam
< 1571244274 556365 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd it taste?
< 1571244347 144457 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :first soda and citric acid were more or less balanced and it was not unlike normal honey, but with some sparkliness, then I added more soda and mixed it all into my tea
< 1571244428 546539 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571244457 6685 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571244517 547397 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571245078 928175 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571245275 969752 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1571247032 103176 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571249239 454744 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571251442 921665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.31.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571251734 918175 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571254488 604512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DPS2004 5*  10New user account
> 1571254629 319142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66668&oldid=66646 5* 03DPS2004 5* (+191) 10/* Introductions */ introduced myself :)
< 1571254994 524660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-96.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571256018 237698 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is useful, now I have two more articles to read
< 1571256061 286765 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :about Reduceron and a functional pearl on enumerating a regular language given a regex
< 1571256230 40340 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :three now, also Oleg’s “λ to SKI, semantically”
< 1571258300 628522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1182
< 1571258301 428782 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1182: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1571259501 689359 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571260048 735274 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571261029 594799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-96.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571261045 872431 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-48.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571261323 286770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-48.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1182
< 1571261323 964909 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1182: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1571261333 295220 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-48.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about time
< 1571261370 342612 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571262691 195916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More libraries should have names that make the "-lfoo" argument sound good, like libiberty.
< 1571263352 387653 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571264134 151563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-48.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and warning options like -Wall and defines with the -D and -U switches?
< 1571264597 340849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Double listed!
> 1571267415 197180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66669&oldid=66519 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+91) 10/* General languages */
> 1571268697 389642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Vulture001 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Aggressthon logo.png10]]": Public domain
> 1571268740 364374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aggressthon14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66671 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+1220) 10Created page
> 1571268980 48480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aggressthon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66672&oldid=66671 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+11) 10
> 1571269603 120473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aggressthon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66673&oldid=66672 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+1) 10/* Instructions */
< 1571270138 870085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1571270950 891068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aggressthon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66674&oldid=66673 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+2) 10
> 1571271724 759501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aggressthon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66675&oldid=66674 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+534) 10
< 1571271826 189382 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571271849 302006 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571271984 113622 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1571272637 142528 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571273247 396022 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571273426 932021 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571274535 534436 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e5b7:c483:d290:3f29 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571274641 317232 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571274679 542944 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1d6e:8fa0:ed82:6fe7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571274687 974018 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:11a6:bd76:7e7b:290 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1571274848 553815 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e5b7:c483:d290:3f29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571284190 100797 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571284319 427771 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571284319 797069 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571288140 996454 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1571291464 3872 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8d5b:8718:10af:5872 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1571291597 978017 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571291772 372798 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0484f-127.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571292237 463665 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d015:821d:d6ff:cdf1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571295766 715907 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-2e846f-164.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571296057 5862 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-2e846f-164.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571297126 310158 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b04846-190.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571298241 643194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-48.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1571298326 475815 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571301793 754662 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571304558 474778 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571310257 869633 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571316359 964634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66676&oldid=66516 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+13) 10/* List of candidates */
> 1571316396 770420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66677&oldid=66559 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+13) 10/* Turing-Completeness */
> 1571319330 803836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Or14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66678&oldid=43204 5* 03A 5* (+408) 10
> 1571320646 812802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66679&oldid=66677 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+30) 10/* Quine */
< 1571321159 500665 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vermlaznttyhlpvc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571321642 896688 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571322310 568296 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571322322 85608 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1571322378 67303 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I get some feedback on a language im working on?
< 1571322422 248221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stranger things have happened
< 1571322446 857173 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are you replying to me?
< 1571322462 108808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1571322483 373987 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm trying not to promise anything.
< 1571322486 913773 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aigt gonna paste in what I have so far
< 1571322490 204447 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To declare a variable named foo with the value of 2:
< 1571322492 565703 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna give you up  --end
< 1571322502 949461 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RickRoll based language
< 1571322558 149678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds painful. :)
< 1571322654 302231 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome
< 1571322668 453975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though tbh we usually care more about the semantics than the syntax
< 1571322690 750632 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorta basing it on Esketit
< 1571322861 302508 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esketit
< 1571322959 692339 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, cute, but it seems rather limited.
< 1571323048 499809 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im kinda stuck on things to add
< 1571323223 174644 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571323227 246078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard mix for a programming language seems to be: something loopy, something conditional, something arithmetic, something noisy (output), something perceptive (input), shake and pour.
< 1571323268 895052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we'll still call the result boring.
< 1571323589 566976 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571323632 476810 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit sorry the internet went out
< 1571323661 243688 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah ill think something up for input
< 1571323743 926344 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah got something
< 1571323764 529915 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say (prompt goes here)
< 1571324022 653950 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we also need something remembery
< 1571324081 349897 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables?
< 1571325447 657960 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571326346 406904 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571327256 566951 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571327460 514984 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571327519 391013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NeverGonna14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66680 5* 03DPS2004 5* (+2167) 10finished all the things!
< 1571327537 143009 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1571327622 796352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NeverGonna14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66681&oldid=66680 5* 03DPS2004 5* (+24) 10lol oops forgot to tag it as a language
< 1571327637 533123 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1571327757 533523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66682&oldid=66641 5* 03DPS2004 5* (+17) 10/* N */ added NeverGonna
< 1571327835 413696 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571328068 350583 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d015:821d:d6ff:cdf1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1571330167 374913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg’s article: “We present another pearl of the translation from lambda-terms to SKI combinators and show off its facets.”
< 1571330167 479008 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pearl with facets… omg it have to be multidimensional and not precisely a sphere, or something
< 1571330211 196572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pearls and facets *are* an odd mix.
< 1571330235 151293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it’s a pearl with a glittery aluminium scales inside, which will do as facets?
< 1571330270 241711 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i edited never gonna give you up in audacity so rick astley sings the fizzbuzz code
< 1571330296 616381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPS2004: go ahead, we'll only hate you for it. forever.
< 1571330328 429782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :could Rick Astley sing 1000 first digits of pi instead
< 1571330356 765881 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, denominators of its representation as a continued fraction
< 1571330358 669456 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1571330387 912847 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571330420 563819 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571330542 381921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Oliver did a rickroll recently. I was not amused :)
< 1571330608 188819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately I forgot everything else about the episode so I can't find it now.
< 1571330628 24565 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.4
> 1571330716 975114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66683&oldid=66382 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+470) 10
< 1571331728 947806 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571331761 558709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66684&oldid=66683 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-7) 10Golf the code down.
> 1571331934 450602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66685&oldid=66684 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-2) 10Golf down one byte.
< 1571331952 44696 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just having fun, don'
< 1571331957 21061 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t mention me
< 1571331995 727143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: esowiki is a bot.
< 1571332062 185874 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I know
< 1571332089 194823 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been talking to him, but rather finding excuses for spamming the channel
< 1571332395 998212 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:Aggressthon_logo.png seems problematic (cf. https://www.python.org/community/logos/)
< 1571332534 566724 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571332887 432318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hmm, I think that's a little subtle. We don't really have a policy on trademarks (CC0 explicitly calls them out of scope), and I don't think the Python page is super-clear about the copyright status of the work, it only talks about the trademark aspect.
< 1571332891 436873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably does fail the PSF Trademark Usage Policy section on "do not want these trademarks to be used to refer to any other programming language".
< 1571332961 864007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the section on derived logos.)
< 1571333066 168387 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I make rick astley say "Zero"
< 1571333073 430034 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what words can I chop up to make that
< 1571333100 102855 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very important
< 1571333153 15894 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUND IT
< 1571333161 195208 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can cut up "
< 1571333166 199977 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rules"
< 1571333176 53015 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the Z
< 1571333411 293385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571333438 60934 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone wanted my mythical chess engine
< 1571333450 919426 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhere on my github
< 1571333511 578414 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1571333517 497162 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, what is sub-lime?
< 1571333551 574705 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571333566 885367 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why do I keep on getting dc'd
< 1571333649 478176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPS2004: Freenode blames your end: DPS2004 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds], DPS2004 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
< 1571333662 617415 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wack
< 1571334136 176846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( behold the new language for traquill and methodical evaluation, OCalm )
< 1571334197 47896 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571334297 342965 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://vocaroo.com/i/s06nrPmzi89K I know the "zero" is a little rough, but how does this sound?
< 1571334358 405723 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what he's saying
< 1571334375 966771 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just figured zero at the end tho
< 1571334442 473847 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/NeverGonna Im trying to get him to sing the fizzbuzz
< 1571334450 800683 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom
< 1571334475 686001 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gosh
< 1571334479 232594 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it man xD
< 1571334500 203701 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one needs really good editing skills
< 1571334513 376195 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make the everything sound like a single sentence
< 1571334529 641413 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to extract single phonems from his songs and tune them to fixed frequency
< 1571334544 741894 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dump it into tracker
< 1571334557 144759 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how to do that lol
< 1571334559 579928 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're pretty much all set
< 1571334568 418890 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think im gonna keep on going in audacity
< 1571334574 841555 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at the phonetical description of what hes singing
< 1571334585 609083 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :extract a sample of him singing a single phone,m
< 1571334599 106837 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then tune all of these to same tone using audacity
< 1571334612 452374 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use a tracker or god's beloved audacity
< 1571334616 748178 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to glue them together
< 1571334630 994218 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I can't quite tell how good will the outcome be
< 1571335308 939481 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571335493 536021 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1d6e:8fa0:ed82:6fe7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571335763 820137 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571335793 849155 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1571335901 778668 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571336326 310332 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571336697 677270 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571336813 336083 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571337154 453923 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571338148 440110 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571338223 895607 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571338466 887003 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571339782 189056 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1571340888 831612 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6
< 1571341513 572752 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7ce5:cc9f:750b:f6ef JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571341537 83305 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571341616 549775 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571341619 965545 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571341655 540038 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571341748 666846 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571341775 161697 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571341777 848650 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571341785 563185 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571341811 554240 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7ce5:cc9f:750b:f6ef QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571342715 47619 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571342978 299475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 bottles of beer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66686&oldid=61816 5* 03B jonas 5* (+86) 10/* External resources */
< 1571343169 869980 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571343518 895633 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6
< 1571344540 62126 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vermlaznttyhlpvc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571345464 873991 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571346881 403959 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571347367 593106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let luby = map snd $ iterate (\(u,v) -> if u .&. (-u) == v then (u+1,1) else (u,v*2)) (1,1)
< 1571347369 552285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1571347370 711390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> luby
< 1571347372 832797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,1,1,2,4,1,1,2,1,1,2,4,8,1,1,2,1,1,2,4,1,1,2,1,1,2,4,8,16,1,1,2,1,1,2,...
< 1571347691 255106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oeis.org/A182105
< 1571347755 146995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Number of elements merged by bottom-up merge sort"? I guess.
< 1571347869 717920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there may be other interpretations than that title
< 1571350490 887285 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571350627 647507 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571351249 578257 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571351896 469088 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1571352857 778243 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571353745 284386 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-003-156-045.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571354550 124870 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-200-068-228.002.200.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571355246 602362 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571355255 542609 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571355513 594513 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571360258 866724 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571362169 80061 :uplime!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :Scrooge
< 1571367937 816280 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1571367954 111173 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571370593 599597 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571370695 643558 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571370788 603095 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571370788 714005 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571370821 888722 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571372012 585841 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571372057 732254 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Who created the 'or' language?
< 1571372058 96114 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: at one point.) i'll try to look at these proofs you'll see that the number of buckets you use to read pdfs which preview/ acroread can't deal with the case that sys-readdir always have "."
< 1571372099 851671 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:Fnordy morning to you
< 1571372100 294735 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: i guess we should take haskell and give it a crack. i love it.) you should get some headphones chosen, sound maybe will be fnord. they're comfortable, and they refused to sense any opportunity for the opposite party since that might have something other fun esolang competition
< 1571372136 121232 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. I can't get fungot to answer https://esolangs.org/wiki/Or related questions.
< 1571372136 437473 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: fortunately the doctors at the university of copenhagen ( datalogisk institutut k?benhavns universitet) server box with a null
< 1571372165 685226 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:I know the language.
< 1571372165 722122 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A55: i could be wrong
< 1571372188 870338 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:Shall I correct you?
< 1571372205 698894 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571372226 588024 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571372257 445557 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Shall I correct you?
< 1571372298 162197 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Shall I teach you?
< 1571372326 973576 :A55!74e4b1f3@116.228.177.243 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571372450 874681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571372511 594277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571374262 531148 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571374571 522834 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1571376213 670470 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571377831 808588 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571380334 568327 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571380905 440153 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571382198 563330 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nehmxeqwsfakpgqq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571382359 834381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/
< 1571382361 20264 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/: b_jonas
< 1571383744 645259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-204.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571384498 988368 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571384578 16088 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:90ea:4e2a:a102:6111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571384753 997706 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:448e:5eac:50f4:3642 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1571385450 909385 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571386344 88160 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571386919 837893 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571387010 431916 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
< 1571387455 968092 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571388175 928867 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571391769 247820 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nehmxeqwsfakpgqq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571395968 29071 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571396109 417882 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo! fungot, come back!
< 1571396709 625769 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1571397020 227455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1571397027 713821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that all about.
< 1571397116 62687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's about the internet at home.
< 1571397164 294022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP has a "dashboard", but it's literally just a rounded rectangle on the account management page which says "Your Service status is: (orb)", where the orb is either red or green. Right now it's red.
< 1571397233 26937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, there's also a hover tooltip box saying "we're sorry for the disruption" and "our engineers are currently investigating the cause and will work to restore connectivity as soon as possible".
< 1571397256 679245 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it a dashboard that you can view from other internet connections, or only from yours?
< 1571397263 717974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bit like the "Inside Out" baby stage... just minus the button?
< 1571397298 906281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen the tooltip say anything else, and it always says that within seconds of the connection going down, so I don't think it actually means anything in particular except that their monitoring has realized it's down.
< 1571397327 124246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I can view it from anywhere by logging in to the same wobsite where you manage billing and that sort of stuff.
< 1571397337 822049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's vitally important to reduce the number of calls for customer support.
< 1571397491 940201 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in that case they probably also have access to the same dashboard, and by just you loading it, their server tells their engineers that your connection is down
< 1571397554 442530 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the page you get immediately after logging in, so I don't think they can quite infer it's down just from me opening that page.
< 1571397579 92704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although realistically that'd have about 98% accuracy in practice.
< 1571397644 647073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My previous ISP had a read-only view into what looked like their actual issue tracker, which was nice. Although it was mostly just copies of BT's outages, because it was a DSL thing over BT's network.
< 1571398582 224495 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not from just opening the page, obviously. but their server knows whether the page tells you it's up or down
< 1571398731 556099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: you mean loading the page might act as a thumbs up on the corresponding ticket?
< 1571398803 781510 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: loading the page tells them that someone cares about the internet being down on that connection. many of their users won't care, because they're sleeping or something. they might prioritize customers who look at the dashboard.
< 1571398846 513175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's possible.
< 1571398889 330426 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you have services running at home but aren't there and awake 24/7? too bad"
> 1571398920 453371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66687&oldid=57199 5* 03B jonas 5* (+90) 10Rosetta Code
< 1571398941 362988 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: obviously the priority only matters when they can't fix all their bugs :-)
< 1571399108 957367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or want to sleep
< 1571399503 566669 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571399952 703863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fibonacci sequence14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66688&oldid=18125 5* 03B jonas 5* (+164) 10Rosetta Code
> 1571400013 267312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello, world!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66689&oldid=50490 5* 03B jonas 5* (+72) 10Rosetta Code
> 1571400091 272804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66690&oldid=60899 5* 03B jonas 5* (+60) 10Rosetta Code
< 1571400727 56138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571402318 846446 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571403497 766184 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571403687 181163 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While researching various things related to "equational logic" I have discovered that there is also "inequational logic". But not many people use this term. I suspect this is because inequational logic has a much better-known name, which is "term rewriting".
< 1571403717 857566 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I am at a loss to see any essential difference between inequational logic and term rewriting.
< 1571403910 513134 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh... this thing at work is terribly inconsistent. I'll have to fix it by redoing the whole thing, for which I have to figure out what the correct settings is
< 1571404000 630420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm, in principle an inequational logic could go further (it could distinguish between covariant, contravariant, and ambiguous arguments of functions, for example)
< 1571404022 209195 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm frustrated about thsi stuff
< 1571404072 773053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just interepreting the term as I'd read it... I have never encountered it in the term rewriting context. Term rewriting people use things like (weakly) monotone algebras that orient rules, in termination proofs for example.)
< 1571404382 592377 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Say you had a term rewriting system, and you wanted to describe its semantics as a set of axioms. You'd have ones like "If a rewites to b, then (ca) rewrites to (cb)", and "If a rewrites to b, and b rewrites to c, then a rewrites to c"... these are the same axioms that get listed when describing an inequational logic.
< 1571404420 35809 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be small differences between the two concepts, sure.
< 1571404648 44318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm just saying that given the term "inequaltional logic" you could do more. If a >= b then f(a) >= f(b) but g(b) >= g(a).
< 1571404660 949897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so you could have monotonic and antimonotonic functions.
< 1571404695 82825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But it appears that this isn't done and then it's indeed just another name for term rewriting.
< 1571405125 200582 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think I follow what you're saying -- you can start with an inequational logic, then add axioms that allow it to say more than you could say with a TRS, yet don't interfere with its purpose as an inequational logic?
< 1571405207 695809 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd agree with that but I think I'm not thinking quite that far ahead yet :)
< 1571405328 736788 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the downside would be that context matters... you couldn't replace any subterm by a smaller one anymore.
< 1571405344 390497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'd be heading in a different direction from rewriting.
< 1571405376 619943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. This happens when I encounter a new term... I first try to fill it with content myself.
< 1571405398 432006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong 80% of the time :P
< 1571405501 540655 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571405531 659323 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571405640 271451 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm fairly excited about it from the meta-logical angle. You can use term rewriting to derive proofs of theorems under some theory, and in inequational logic you have a theory of term rewriting.
< 1571405694 717797 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short it seems to confirm my feeling that a non-deterministic term rewriting language is sufficient for writing machine-checkable proofs in.
< 1571405879 997608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that somewhat true for all models of computation :)
< 1571405971 852748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m disappointed in what was going on in https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/15730/can-digital-computers-understand-infinity
< 1571405971 931337 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :many noted layman’s “understand” is an ambiguous non-notion but a few if at all noted the same about layman’s “infinity”. When talking about a specific “infinity” instance, things should get way clearer. There would be no denying some commenters are antropocentric, or should I say psyche-centric, at its worst
< 1571405991 741791 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very disappointed. Say you agree with me please
< 1571406011 656821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better don’t read that thing at all, it’s not that good
< 1571406201 509992 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can think, principally, and "understand" infinitely many numbers that are displayed on the screen."  must be a pretty big screen
< 1571406273 751425 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1571406297 169524 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571406508 526611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's *not* always the same placeholder text. Now it says: "We're sorry to advise that we're experiencing a technical issue which has resulted in a temporary loss of broadband services to your building." I guess that's a good sign.
< 1571406540 432090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🙌😈🐰
< 1571406541 528763 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION] [U+1F608 SMILING FACE WITH HORNS] [U+1F430 RABBIT FACE]
< 1571406581 406908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those prevalent chinese rooms in there too. I’d say popular understanding of a human mental capability is illusional and mostly based on accounts of introspection, not normal science, and what would chinese argumentists say if their chinese room would argue that it has introspection and it introspected that it e. g. understands and it’s unfair to deny that, and any human they meet is indistinguishable from that, so how do they c
< 1571406581 496625 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoose to believe or not? Antropocentrically 
< 1571406681 857746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"understanding" seems to be a deeply anthropomorphic concept to me.
< 1571406732 260607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "can computers learn to solve problems involving infinity"?
< 1571406767 100354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still vague, but at least it's moving closer to something testable.
< 1571406775 972298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't read the stackexchange link)
< 1571406828 4434 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not that it isn’t, that had been tried to be clarified in various ways, but I’m at a loss to understand why wasn’t that done for “infinity”, as it is a topic of the question
< 1571406857 490735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs.

< 1571406880 521720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a link to some SO question about formalizing infinity, and I bet there were all kinds of infinities math has to offer, but I don’t think many commenters followed through with reading that
< 1571406882 664814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: You're not wrong!
< 1571406909 67690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thank you :)
< 1571406929 315512 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I tend to be wrong while heated
< 1571406931 853259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd also focus on "undertanding" first. :)
< 1571406942 46570 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was done too
< 1571407084 98780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a tangent, I’m slightly sad about antropocenteredness, cause it seems to be a reason of many bitter misunderstandings, as humans are modeled being more infailible that they are
< 1571407163 825776 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s constructive to try to understand flaws in our hardware but it’s almost not being done, not even basics at schools (I presume, worldwide), not some other stuff in social media etc.
< 1571407197 530413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay many know about logical fallacies but that’s not too many and that’s not enough I think
< 1571407289 530914 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :by “not being done”, I mean not trying to discover them, that’s of course almost at its best now, as neurosciences go forward very fast, but trying to make general public aware
< 1571407293 162951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a difference between anthropocentric thinking (I'm fine with that, really... we are humans after all and spend a lot of time with ourselves and other people) and ascribing super-Turing powers to humans :P
< 1571407352 865097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is a sort of mystification that I don't approve of.
< 1571407394 689260 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as many of the flaws are quite good at not being noticed because of our filling-in gaps, another bittersweet architecture choice of evolution
< 1571407420 816588 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: some antropocentrism is normal, I agree, but it seems there is a line somewhere
< 1571407438 440637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in what is explicit and what is implicit
< 1571407481 599438 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one is aware that she thinks antropocentrically, and why it needs to be so, it’s okay
< 1571407520 98718 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the most part that’s all implicit, deep waters of unconscious patterns or something
< 1571407536 396441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the power of rationalizing that into some nonsense
< 1571407723 373862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW that Oleg’s paper was interesting
< 1571407751 368391 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationalization is the ultimate AI problem
< 1571407784 680309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can’t say I fully understand (eek) it but it seems nice (and maybe even useful to me in the future?)
< 1571407876 206795 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“The Reduceron reconfigured and re-evaluated” had shown me some useful things too if I’d wish to design a virtual machine for something near-functional
< 1571407935 934853 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there’s only one left, about writing in Haskell enumeration of a regex’s language through FSAs
< 1571408120 359774 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571408531 788934 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they added randomness to the placeholder text? nice.
< 1571409235 203879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if you can have OpenSSH require two public keys instead of just one.
< 1571409423 567286 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571409441 997927 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think its possible to write a quine in NeverGonna?
< 1571409585 141301 :DPS2004!32e2d97e@50.226.217.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571409897 290929 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: two public keys? what do you mean?
< 1571409949 430677 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you mean require that the user who logs in has the matching private key for _one_ of two public keys, because if so, you can do that, just put multiple keys (one per line) in the file that contains the public keys
< 1571410081 101871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was thinking the user who logs in would need to have matching private keys for two different public keys.
< 1571410103 691381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's unlikely to be a thing.
< 1571410112 147172 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be trickier, yse
< 1571410157 663157 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even such a thing in the SSL protocol that a client supports? how do I tell the client config to use two keys?
< 1571410171 218136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can provide multiple identities, yes.
< 1571410187 693494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely a SSH agent can hold multiple keys in memory, and will offer to use all of them when signing.
< 1571410205 211938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might be that the details of the protocol prevent you from actually performing authentication with more than one.
< 1571410243 921364 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how that works, I've always just put one explicit filename for each host in my client config file
< 1571410252 472431 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one explicit private key filename that is
< 1571410260 392300 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly different filenames for different hosts
< 1571410280 901772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can (nowadays) configure OpenSSH to require multiple authentication *methods* (as in, "public key and password" e.g.), but that probably doesn't apply to multiple keys.
< 1571410379 246441 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: multiple methods as in allow connections only from certain hosts but still ask for a key, sure
< 1571410395 46099 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public key and password is alternative, you can log in via either one
< 1571410405 511800 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the client's choice then
< 1571410410 694819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can require both.
< 1571410416 750554 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can? ok
< 1571410418 585684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via the "AuthenticationMethods" option.
< 1571410434 599988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, "publickey,password publickey,keyboard-interactive" would require the user to complete public key authentication, followed by or more comma-separated lists of authentication method names, or by the single string any to indicate the default behaviour of accepting any single authentication method."
< 1571410447 175960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know this earlier either, only learned about it now.
< 1571410460 25741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1571410465 12648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed up that copy-paste.
< 1571410477 486469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, "publickey,password publickey,keyboard-interactive" would require the user to complete public key authentication, followed by either password or keyboard interactive authentication."
< 1571410481 491867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost track on which line I was on.
< 1571410552 521677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The context for this train of thought is, Android has a "secure hardware" thingamajick for keeping RSA and EC keys in, and asking the hardware to sign them. There's an SSH agent implementation that hooks that and allows secure hardware keys to be used as SSH keys -- https://github.com/aeolwyr/tergent -- but there's no way to attach a passphrase to that, the keys get unlocked when you unlock the device.
< 1571410571 152552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking it might be reasonable to have both a key like that + a separate passphrase-protected private key, if you wanted to require more from SSH authentication than from in general unlocking the phone. Just because fingerprints are so convenient.
< 1571410577 254844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in retrospect maybe that's not really much of a security benefit over just having a single passphrase-protected public key stored in a regular file.
< 1571410949 376797 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you just handle that on client-side, by encoding the second private key not by your passphrase, but by a tuple of your passphrase and something secret derived from the device key?
< 1571411191 406955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, the only things I can ask the hardware to do is to sign something or to verify a signature, using the protected private key. So it's not entirely obvious how to use that for protecting the second private key.
< 1571411251 423293 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, that's trickier
< 1571411353 693021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess technically I could use the signature of my passphrase as the "something secret derived from the device key"? At least that works in the scenario where someone has the (second) private key file, and knows my passphrase.
< 1571411387 344408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it would probably involve writing some code, I don't know if I want to go that far.
< 1571411819 969789 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571412193 941006 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think that's a good idea
< 1571412202 667080 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptographically that is
< 1571412263 677656 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask other people here who understand this crypto stuff though
< 1571412660 617413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously not a good idea in the sense that knowing the passphrase and that one signature would be sufficient to decode the second private key file, as opposed to something where you would actually need to have control over the first private key and show you can sign anything with it. But it's not clear how to do that on the client side.
< 1571412725 959428 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571413923 338984 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571414013 620177 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571414097 822450 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571414511 284966 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1571414582 648206 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571414882 70513 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571415043 368740 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1571416061 37844 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: Attribute grammars tho, amirite
< 1571417034 688506 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1571418231 623939 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571418421 972353 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571418603 268041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it's back.
< 1571419383 885139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571419997 196952 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot
< 1571419999 949671 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: welcome
< 1571420000 127262 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: to avoid cgi. anything beyond that becomes unmanageable to an alarming degree. it happens to work in
< 1571420074 96672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot
< 1571420074 312814 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: because the second a symbol and a tarpit, though. he's not back for real, l is for life and still not overflow any buffers will be flushed anyway.
< 1571420096 943500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's poetic
< 1571420105 597074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Now, is that CGI as in Common Gateway Interface, or as in computer-generated imagery, or something else? 
< 1571420105 644923 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but the possibility of using exceptions in another implementation
< 1571420114 899408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not back for real?
< 1571420137 671333 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571420869 353493 :pikhq!uid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putygvflmnyxxsta PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: we like you
< 1571420869 440080 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well there is real work to be done by someone else?"
< 1571424618 234147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 2 3!8
< 1571424619 18675 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 28 56
< 1571424620 950998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/2 3!8
< 1571424621 667138 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 84
> 1571424701 36740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Someone else 5*  10New user account
< 1571426044 421884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you know what I'd like in a browser? make the stop button terminate all network connections that the current tab initiates, including the ones that client-side scripts do. 
> 1571426136 609546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66691&oldid=66668 5* 03Someone else 5* (+317) 10
> 1571427315 453699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66692 5* 03Someone else 5* (+792) 10Created page with "A?! is a minimalistic programming language.  All variables have alphanumeric names and boolean values and there are only 6 commands:  A! - Negates the value of variable named..."
> 1571427433 76673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66693&oldid=66692 5* 03Someone else 5* (+60) 10
> 1571427525 71830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66694&oldid=66693 5* 03Someone else 5* (+16) 10
> 1571427714 459064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66695&oldid=66694 5* 03Someone else 5* (+62) 10
< 1571428257 507372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... says "There is a kind of beauty in simplicity and turing-completeness." to get our hopes up, then posts one of these languages that are not turing-complete, nor even missing turing-completeness in some interesting way
< 1571428642 581117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :appreciates art. not an artist.
< 1571428703 287414 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571428709 783235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "I am interested in esolangs and I find it to be a lot of fun to try and create simple and elegant languages."
< 1571428721 13781 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1571428723 958529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess they do say "try"
< 1571428724 303197 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode NICK :imode
< 1571428726 268913 :lf94!~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a page on esolangs that says the different kinds of langs? by some category?
< 1571428769 187819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is categories in esolang wiki
> 1571429156 888269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66696&oldid=66695 5* 03Someone else 5* (+68) 10
< 1571429369 981476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1571429990 638204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66697&oldid=66696 5* 03Someone else 5* (+234) 10
> 1571430011 645235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66698&oldid=66697 5* 03Someone else 5* (+2) 10
> 1571430038 333624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66699&oldid=66698 5* 03Someone else 5* (+9) 10
< 1571430214 359433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a cute book: https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1184961738518814720/pu/img/vJw7QjCDvI09mCuw.jpg
< 1571430397 531720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from https://mobile.twitter.com/JanelleCShane/status/1184951446212530178 ... oh there are videos, actually
< 1571430437 731553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(silly)
< 1571436626 552410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1571436628 935333 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:darknet//The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services. Said services are paid for in plant roots and earthworms. \ uwe boll//Uwe Boll is the undefined behavior of cinematography. \ spämmer//Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. \ piet//6Piet 4is 7a 8really 9colourful 2programming 13lang
< 1571437139 981909 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:149e:e2d7:ed75:8c9a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571437337 962747 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:90ea:4e2a:a102:6111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571438508 416956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I agree; I want the stop function to stop everything.
< 1571438554 270911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything?
< 1571439592 92435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what generation VIII stuff will be relevant for Pokemon mahjong?
< 1571443541 552024 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
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< 1571448482 932913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571448623 78636 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.
< 1571448702 61619 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571449515 355226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571451314 557063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1571451316 849772 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:`1//`1  is equivalent to `` , except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4. \ dragon//Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels. \ dinosaur//Dinosaurs are 
< 1571451324 911436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? piet
< 1571451326 6405 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​6Piet 4is 7a 8really 9colourful 2programming 13language.
< 1571451348 832553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's interesting. Why did it get truncated above without a second page?
< 1571455357 51259 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1571457137 60364 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1571457228 411832 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571457990 434463 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571458077 94291 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571458086 67895 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net NICK :MDude
< 1571459757 92146 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1571461570 158273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are adding support for generated columns into SQLite. That doesn't seem so useful to me, unless that feature can be used with virtual tables.
< 1571461587 623851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Another feature that doesn't seems so useful to me is the EXCLUDE clause for window functions.)
< 1571462614 530642 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571462902 714398 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a card game called "Curse of Scotland", with four players, either with or without teams. Give 13 cards to each player, and then whoever holds the nine of diamonds must reveal it so that everyone knows who holds it. He may either keep it, or give it to another player and ask for a card in exchange; he can specify the suit but not the rank of that card. Initially there is no trumps.
< 1571463020 412928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tricks are then played as in whist, but you cannot play the nine of diamonds unless it is the only card you have or if you already have a trick (if you are required to play a diamond but have only the nine of diamonds and are not allowed to play it, then you must ignore the requirement to follow suit).
< 1571463107 76905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once the nine of diamonds is won in a trick, then all players other than the player who won that trick scores one point per trick, and the player who won the trick with the nine of diamonds scores nothing. And then, reset trick counts to zero, gather all cards already played and redistribute them to all players.
< 1571463176 852589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the player who won the nine of diamonds, after examining his own cards, selects a new trump suit, or no trumps; it is not allowed to be the same as it just was. And then do the same with the nine of diamonds as at the start of the game, and the trump namer leads to the next trick.
< 1571463239 353096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that many times, the players will keep many of the cards they were initially dealt while the other cards get mixed up and redistributed.)
< 1571463416 352093 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds pretty similar to hearts, with the queen of spades
< 1571463444 411613 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the knowledge of who has the important card isn't in hearts
< 1571463484 550725 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :redistribution of cards could get... interesting
< 1571463749 603502 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some other clarifications: If you ask a card of a suit that they have none of, then they tell you and you must ask for a different suit. If you decide to keep the nine of diamonds, then you must name a suit that you have at least one card of (not counting the nine of diamonds); if teams are played, you might try to communicate information to your partner.
< 1571463792 70188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If teams are being played, only the tricks won by the player who has won the nine of diamonds don't count; his partner's tricks still do count toward the team's score.
< 1571464210 935312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooloovo0: I am not so sure that it is similar to hearts, although hearts is also played with each player thirteen cards and then playing tricks similar to whist, but with no trumps. In hearts, the hearts also count, but tricks not containing hearts or the queen of spades, do not count any points.
< 1571464789 467730 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the strategy in hearts, while keeping score, is to not get stuck with the queen
< 1571464815 377386 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I agree that it is a very different game with trumps
< 1571465332 357130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true (unless you try to collect all of the hearts and queen of spades). (Also, I have seen a variant of scoring in hearts where the queen of spades is worth six instead of thirteen.)
< 1571465447 119022 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :six points seems interesting since it makes the game less about the queen and more about the hearts
< 1571465487 100153 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely suggest that next time I play hearts
< 1571465697 276320 :Guest1!~textual@c-76-126-99-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1571467279 545452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Or14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66700&oldid=66678 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+287) 10
> 1571467673 417778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Or14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66701&oldid=66700 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+334) 10
> 1571467704 494894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Or14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66702&oldid=66701 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+128) 10I forgot my signature
< 1571468808 523330 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:442:cc41:d44e:a07 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571469005 975168 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:149e:e2d7:ed75:8c9a QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1571471056 788434 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1571479256 514182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? how does that work?
< 1571479320 337960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1571481714 9675 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571492672 540069 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlbuxdyuexiuchph JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571496998 466204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 98.6
< 1571496999 160341 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :98.60°F = 37.00°C
< 1571499358 948111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint(175 * ($lb = 0.4536))
< 1571499359 676766 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :79.38
< 1571500373 64809 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571500489 619692 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571500490 156328 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1571502622 882645 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571503869 595237 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.23.205.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1571504658 16990 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlbuxdyuexiuchph QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1571505262 646255 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571506379 648276 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1571509365 790525 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571509377 334932 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571509392 6320 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on solving Project Euler challenges in Brainfuck
< 1571509393 954954 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I gotta say
< 1571509397 157976 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite amusing
< 1571509796 510076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1571509797 221342 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1571509882 397101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1571509887 421763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in brainfuck?
< 1571509901 857263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds terrible
< 1571509912 804893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: um, you realize what channel you're in?
< 1571510055 809444 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1571510059 662908 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if somebody feels brave enough
< 1571510068 317697 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for challenge #4, please send me a PR
< 1571510068 782181 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/euler
< 1571510099 910859 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 already done, we're really close to 600!
< 1571510190 779792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: itym insane
< 1571510203 230280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly terrifying
< 1571510548 321797 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1571512025 978728 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571512855 969452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1571513186 986298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stereolist
< 1571513193 175649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote stereo
< 1571513193 235809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :geheimdienst says: data Stereoloid = BanachTyvski | CoBanachTyvski
< 1571513197 367251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1571513200 783395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote stereo
< 1571513200 825100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :geheimdienst says: data Stereoloid = BanachTyvski | CoBanachTyvski
< 1571513219 66690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone may have been deleting
< 1571513229 777929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote ent.stereo
< 1571513229 860122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Just what do you think you're doing Dave?
< 1571513259 290626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote ste.eo
< 1571513259 354403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :geheimdienst says: data Stereoloid = BanachTyvski | CoBanachTyvski
< 1571514321 710421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : by the way, what is sub-lime? <-- a pun on the esolang wiki logo that got way out of hand a few years ago
< 1571514369 990552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i put it in the channel welcome message, then someone started overdoing it)
< 1571514430 128024 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bot is blowing my mind
< 1571514432 541255 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you just done
< 1571514513 554493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, me?
< 1571514520 388849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote fugue
< 1571514520 495107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in contrapuntal fugues.
< 1571514527 496372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1571514542 174727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we have this upgrade of Cale's classical stereo quote
< 1571514544 288958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a similar quote to the one i tried to look up, yes
< 1571514567 414963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to #haskell where your questions are answered in majestic stereo."
< 1571514574 943606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the original.
< 1571514590 258614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't remember the majestic
< 1571514590 493548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably with a comma in the appropriate place)
< 1571514661 366595 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In unrelated news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmp0uGtShk is painful to watch.
< 1571514714 6178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I kept focusing on the pinky finger.)
< 1571514802 653093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to try not watching it

< 1571514898 137015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :context (less painful): https://mobile.twitter.com/LakeBrenden/status/1184967457305432066
< 1571515032 212970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to shout at you for linking the mobile version, but frankly it looks way less annoying than the usual
< 1571515129 34477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1571515165 859456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf
< 1571515216 695507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The funny thing is that I'm on a desktop PC. But without JS, Twitter redirects me to the mobile version. (I'd have to disable