< 1568679035 715414 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here messed with WebAssembly much? < 1568679078 934425 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out a clean way for WASM to generate and load WASM, and then load references to the generated functions/tables/data so that it can be used. < 1568679144 487764 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for a embedded impl of WASM, not the kind you'd see in a browser < 1568679160 268226 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spec changes are possible < 1568679194 887982 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1568679517 186589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does amd64 have both "Move imm32 to r32." and "Move imm32 to r/m32."? < 1568679536 50922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably look up the 32-bit encodings. < 1568679563 149880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://c9x.me/x86/html/file_module_x86_id_176.html has it too. < 1568679594 182418 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1568679620 489494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's one byte shorter for the imm32-to-r32 case? < 1568680058 96939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been assuming they've dedicated 8 one-byte opcodes for "MOV r32, imm32" because it's so common. < 1568680076 863143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And 8 more for "MOV r8, imm8".) < 1568680097 980377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1568680274 956567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x64; lea (%rax), %rax < 1568680277 218073 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 64 48 8d 00 lea %fs:(%rax),%rax < 1568680349 185707 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=rasm2 mov eax, 0x7f7f7f7f < 1568680354 208714 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=ping < 1568680359 387612 :asdfbot!potato@hellomouse/bin/notJeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1568680362 562032 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=rasm2 mov eax, 0x7f7f7f7f < 1568680364 51089 :asdfbot!potato@hellomouse/bin/notJeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b87f7f7f7f < 1568680372 903684 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=rasm2 mov [ecx], 0x7f7f7f7f < 1568680372 939952 :asdfbot!potato@hellomouse/bin/notJeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :c7017f7f7f7f < 1568680380 352503 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ^ 1 byte shorter, so yes < 1568680396 604343 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=rasm2 mov [eax], 0x7f7f7f7f < 1568680396 641787 :asdfbot!potato@hellomouse/bin/notJeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :c7007f7f7f7f < 1568680443 473842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1568680487 304292 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, assumed you were unsure due to saying `i guess` < 1568680506 551207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1568680587 966922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way VEX flips some of the REX bits so that the 32-bit encoding happens to turn into an invalid register r/m operand. < 1568680850 753254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0xa1 < 1568680852 774166 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: a1 .byte 0xa1 < 1568680854 571251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this used? < 1568680867 895498 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo. uh let's see < 1568680874 305725 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/asm < 1568680876 8556 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1" > /tmp/asm.s; for o in ',' '-msyntax=intel -mnaked-reg,-M intel'; do if as ${o%,*} /tmp/asm.s -o /tmp/asm.o 2>>/tmp/asm.err; then objdump ${o#*,} -d --insn-width=20 /tmp/asm.o | sed -e "1,/0000000000000000/d" | perl -pe 'if (/^\s*(\w+:)\s*((?:\w\w )+)\s*(\S.*)$/) { ($a,$b,$c) = ($1,$2,$3); $_ = "$a $b ".($c =~ s/\s+/ /rg)."\n"; }'; exit; fi; done; cat /tmp/asm.err < 1568680889 835149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reference: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/mov < 1568680896 933844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOV EAX,moffs32 < 1568680959 50277 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what assembler is being used? I can't tell < 1568680970 503998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's using GNU as. < 1568680978 772467 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1568680979 11387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tries both Intel and AT&T syntax. < 1568682955 710353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '__thread long x; long foo(void) { return x; }' > /tmp/test.c && gcc -shared -fPIC -O2 -shared /tmp/test.c -o /tmp/test.so && objdump -d /tmp/test.so | grep -A5 'foo' < 1568682958 462961 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000000000740 : \ 740: 48 83 ec 08 sub $0x8,%rsp \ 744: 66 48 8d 3d 84 08 20 data16 lea 0x200884(%rip),%rdi # 200fd0 \ 74b: 00 \ 74c: 66 66 48 e8 cc fe ff data16 data16 callq 620 <__tls_get_addr@plt> \ 753: ff < 1568682974 329586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's all this? What are those data16s doing? < 1568683012 498796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I just needed -fPIC to get this behavior, not -shared. < 1568683077 714552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this just some kind of padding? < 1568683470 713445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or space for patching something? (Don't know, just a guess.) < 1568683506 504945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't quite get bwhy it needs a call. < 1568683574 557420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a time when GCC defaulted to using "rep ret" when it needed to emit a return instruction that was also the target of a branch, because of a branch predictor bug on AMD processors. < 1568683614 531718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably faster than "nop; ret". < 1568683617 716252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1 echo '__thread long x; long foo(void) { return x; }' > /tmp/test.c && gcc -shared -fPIC -O2 /tmp/test.c -S -o /dev/stdout < 1568683620 413278 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2: .file "test.c" \ .text \ .p2align 4,,15 \ .globl foo \ .type foo, @function \ foo: \ .LFB0: \ .cfi_startproc \ subq $8, %rsp \ .cfi_def_cfa_offset 16 \ .byte 0x66 \ leaq x@tlsgd(%rip), %rdi \ .value 0x6666 \ rex64 \ call __tls_get_addr@PLT \ movq (%rax), %rax \ addq $8, %rsp \ .cfi_def_cfa_offset 8 \ ret \ .cfi_endproc \ .LFE0: \ .size foo, .-foo \ .globl x \ .section .tbss,"awT",@nobits \ .align 8 \ .type x, @object \ .size x, < 1568683639 581660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even -S explicitly generates ".value 0x6666". < 1568683748 232493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the call, I think a bunch of the @PLT stuff involves calls that get patched out on first call, so maybe it's space for that. Don't remember any of the details though. > 1568683786 440777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SIG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66206&oldid=19939 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+42) 10 < 1568683806 200174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same deal with -fno-plt < 1568683819 79148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Good gcc flags I found out about recently. I think I'll compile all my program with -fno-plt now.) < 1568683838 541369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it do < 1568683896 704051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiles dynamic linker calls to "callq *offset(%rip)" < 1568683905 701376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where offset is an offset into the GOT. < 1568683918 470548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means you can't do lazy loading, but lazy loading doesn't seem great to me anyway. < 1568683922 351177 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1568683935 457561 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it means you always have an indirect call < 1568683937 865068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually you probably could do lazy loading if you really wanted to.) < 1568683939 540671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, maybe TLS involves some of the same kind of shenanigans, it's a TLA as well. < 1568683940 448777 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a direct call and a direct jump? < 1568683943 796670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the PLT has an indirect call anyway! < 1568683947 311615 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1568683953 358926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It has the same call. < 1568683956 712231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it self-modify to remove it < 1568683958 507922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get a direct call *and* an indirect call. < 1568683966 730869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it's scow. < 1568683981 444736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... Hmm, does it? < 1568683992 509399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it involved self-modification *somewhere*. < 1568683999 617445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I should double-check. < 1568684015 45444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the PLT doesn't turn +w at runtime, though. < 1568684054 308238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it used to self-modify, but then security happened. < 1568684063 909038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stacks used to be executable too. < 1568684067 841258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is the amd64 ABI. It's all different for 86 anyway. < 1568684069 243033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1568684071 76655 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use ld -z now, or whatever < 1568684077 188302 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should do the self modification before main() < 1568684078 118723 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1568684088 475585 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION execute fizzie's stack < 1568684119 958645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You're all about stacks and stack stacks, right? Are they executable? < 1568684120 177280 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the problematic part is that no annotations are produced/ maintained for expanded syntax form of f, and y < 1568684163 225515 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It doesn't look that way. < 1568684167 428113 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1568684174 429100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on the second call, even with -z now. < 1568684178 641022 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fat stacks of cache < 1568684181 659879 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1568684183 261127 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1568684183 978610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least based on gdbing it up. < 1568684208 270512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's probably fine and no one should expect dynamically linked calls to be extremely efficient. < 1568684220 156072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, they should stop dynamic linking, and only use it where necessary. < 1568684240 955490 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :God Damn these Bampires < 1568684301 49893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is reasonable, because no one expects Programming Language Theory types to generate efficient code. < 1568684626 909646 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568684681 914613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's definitely never writable, then I don't know what those extra prefix bytes could be for. Something something alignment performance? < 1568684727 663129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly I'd expect that explanation only between functions and branches, not in bytes that are actually executed. < 1568684734 174322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be that the linker could want that extra space at link time, in some cases? < 1568684779 26909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know how that would work. < 1568684786 932726 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1568684876 781109 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2d15:65a8:c6dd:6c2d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568684900 211135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is __tls_get_addr a function call, anyway? < 1568685051 404956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1 echo '__thread long x; long foo(void) { return x; }' > /tmp/test.c && gcc -shared -fPIC -Os /tmp/test.c -S -o /dev/stdout < 1568685053 975884 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2: .file "test.c" \ .text \ .globl foo \ .type foo, @function \ foo: \ .LFB0: \ .cfi_startproc \ subq $8, %rsp \ .cfi_def_cfa_offset 16 \ .byte 0x66 \ leaq x@tlsgd(%rip), %rdi \ .value 0x6666 \ rex64 \ call __tls_get_addr@PLT \ movq (%rax), %rax \ popq %rdx \ .cfi_def_cfa_offset 8 \ ret \ .cfi_endproc \ .LFE0: \ .size foo, .-foo \ .globl x \ .section .tbss,"awT",@nobits \ .align 8 \ .type x, @object \ .size x, 8 \ x: \ .zero 8 \ < 1568685072 525948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generates that even with -Os so I doubt it's an instruction alignment thing. < 1568685709 192791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.fsfla.org/~lxoliva/writeups/TLS/RFC-TLSDESC-x86.txt might explain it. AFAICT it describes a proposal that looks different, but it also talks about the "existing ABI" which looks like that. < 1568685790 987723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, https://akkadia.org/drepper/tls.pdf < 1568685797 842815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page 22. < 1568685875 48214 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568685960 886375 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568686166 497445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, was just reading that. < 1568686192 968795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The call instruction has to be preceeded by two data16 prefixes and one rex64 prefix to increase the total size of the whole sequence to 16 bytes." < 1568686239 671648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Intel specifically says that sort of thing is not allowed. < 1568686250 76985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of thing? < 1568686313 447953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, prefix abuse. Or it definitely says that about some classes of that sort of thing, not necessarily all of it. < 1568686323 994260 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pretty sure the reason is because old nephelem CPUs would fall to a decoding stall if you mucked with prefixes like that. (Source: using a nephelem CPU right now) < 1568686382 499321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other use of the 66H prefix is reserved; such use may cause unpredictable behavior." < 1568686416 600745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about the REX prefix specifies that 0x66 is ignored when used with REX, though. < 1568686582 999939 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1568686585 352519 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1568686597 550369 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code they show may actually play nice on nephalem < 1568686600 230137 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :which suprises me < 1568686623 11922 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's under 6 instrs in 16 bytes, perfect size for the nephalem decoder < 1568686634 472140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this "large code model" where your text segment is bigger than 2GB sounds like a nightmare. < 1568686645 395190 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course.. < 1568686647 949629 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1568686653 222124 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :that code also does trigger the length changing prefix penalty < 1568686653 800770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you should be banned from using computers if that ever happens. < 1568686685 194461 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably twice < 1568686694 858519 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasting 12 cycles because of the two 66h prefixes < 1568686724 187830 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-anexfrqatduauchm QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568686743 726890 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kzhprbvndwmpaiaf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568686752 414389 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wxljixnyxikikxjo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568686752 789176 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nloldejaskuswpbg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568686754 731476 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hklaharioznmxtlq QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568686757 537813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the reason for making that sequence 16 bytes? < 1568686757 573956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's a bit that says "if a 66H prefix is used with prefix (REX.W = 1), 66H is ignored". Although I think you could reasonably argue that's not meant to say you could put 66H in wherever. < 1568686790 881312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document was too hard to read, I was thinking it has something to do with those special relocation types under specific circumstances needing that space. < 1568686798 831215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I'll sleep instead, though. < 1568686878 387552 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: seems to be the decoder width for a lot of modern CPUs < 1568686910 66048 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it helps with some decoding stalls to make it fit < 1568687048 666241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure why this is a function call at all. < 1568687085 848110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the implementation in musl, it seems to claim this function uses things that are part of the public ABI? < 1568687186 503068 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wjrodzqlbfowrbns JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688448 451228 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-efzdeegohspjmutv JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688448 529743 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qaxwgsvpeaytkcru JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688448 583131 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dmdrmxutwnidvggb JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688455 596236 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-abtqtgogqeavwuix JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688654 136438 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dmdrmxutwnidvggb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568688654 213668 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wjrodzqlbfowrbns QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568688654 249924 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568688654 341305 :zemhill_________!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568688672 631101 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tmgrnkjqwfxlgxbc JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688978 999293 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688978 999346 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688978 999356 :zemhill_________!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1568688984 739066 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/session QUIT :Changing host < 1568688984 739124 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgduimmguukhffac JOIN :#esoteric < 1568690181 547694 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:f887:d734:7e30:d00b JOIN :#esoteric < 1568690256 521231 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2cbf:617e:9cf0:4f35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568690338 793467 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgduimmguukhffac QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568690338 873711 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568690338 910084 :zemhill_________!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1568690356 777733 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uapbynddkhsuhhtt JOIN :#esoteric < 1568690474 522148 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:f887:d734:7e30:d00b QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568690552 518452 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2cbf:617e:9cf0:4f35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568690659 695402 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568690659 695448 :zemhill_________!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1568691288 472338 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1568691494 657659 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568691523 649862 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568693105 772799 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568694906 14347 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1568695050 179667 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568698091 680853 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568698250 929943 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1568698302 661084 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( Upper and lower case ) < 1568698854 959180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: oh wow < 1568699027 731312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think I've ever questioned the etymology of those phrases.) < 1568699128 952600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Now does that mean that shift-o (for example) can produce any of A, B, H or I? < 1568701927 686115 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1568702190 586995 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the etymology of shifting is separate.. :p < 1568702218 483247 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, AFAIK at least < 1568702751 462160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yeah different (and more advanced) technology :) < 1568702800 561813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was easy for me because I did play with a mechanical type writer as a kid. < 1568703674 432105 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1568704213 776752 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I accidentally read about that a couple of months ago I can smugly pretend I always knew about upper and lower case < 1568704431 893329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: please do < 1568704464 619322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi olsner < 1568704470 914054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time nolsner < 1568704481 933332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olsner < 1568704484 517974 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric. < 1568704579 711739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, amend to "alphanumeric, both lower and upper case" < 1568704586 753478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not? < 1568704702 233500 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1568704719 968283 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2cbf:617e:9cf0:4f35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568705310 237373 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1568708024 532860 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568708567 665504 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1568708920 649033 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1568709709 205828 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568709791 921644 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'm getting old. apparently there are now people who haven't played with mechanical typewriters while they were young. < 1568709819 314533 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I didn't get to play with a mechanical typewriter until I was 18 < 1568709958 763914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I bet some of them have never even properly dialed a phone number < 1568709976 472648 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's more complicated than that. the intel docs hides some quite complicated rules for what prefix you can use for what instructions, when it doesn't change the meaning, when it means what the prefix normally means, when it changes to a different instruction, and when the combination is reserved in which case the cpu can either raise an < 1568709976 972666 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined instr exception or ignore the prefix, < 1568709984 283438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by "some" I mean "most") < 1568710003 788809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or tuned a radio. < 1568710037 387965 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they sometimes use reserved ignored combos to add new meanings to the prefixes, like how the rep prefixes can now mean a probably or improbably branch or a transactional memory prefix, < 1568710066 901618 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the optimization manuals also say some things about what's slow and fast to decode, and this specifically differs between intel and amd a lot. < 1568710073 965434 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, this conversation is making me feel young < 1568710113 445501 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what? you can still tune radios, you just usually issue the commands digitally via buttons or fake dials that work all digital < 1568710171 328496 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: it's just not the same without fading, and temperature/moisture sensitive capacitors. < 1568710176 151767 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dialing a phone number is sort of a better example, but that's also a discriminator for younglings. I have made a phone call from a phone where the only option was to ask the number from an operator, because there was no dial. < 1568710229 484954 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a few times during my life, because at home and basically everywhere in town we had dialer phones and automated phone switch stations, so I only had to call through an operator if I wanted a reverse cost call < 1568710247 949354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tbf I really grew up with frequency modulation which did away with most of the fading issues already) < 1568710307 79180 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, but even on FM we get a lot of artifacts from it being analog, especially noticable if you are in a place with poor reception and the amount of noise changes depending on which direction you're holding the wire of the headphones that function as an antenna < 1568710472 255025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly I'm interested in this because of outdated phrases that are still in use as idioms. Dialing a phone number, hanging up on somebody, tuning into a radio station (at least in the form of "tune in again tomorrow")... < 1568710541 699893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I'm not sure what the origin of "tune" is. < 1568710556 735792 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, these days there are even messed up android phones where, after typing your PIN code on a touchscreen, if you touch the # button on the touchscreen, instead of accepting your entry, it erases the last digit from it. < 1568710565 127195 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand interfaces < 1568710571 718302 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: adjusting a frequency is called tuning in music as well < 1568710592 536020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that the origin? < 1568710593 869842 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568710598 936091 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variant of "tone" < 1568710602 848496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're two different kinds of frequencies. < 1568710619 764205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're tuning a resonance circuit to the right frequency. < 1568710657 23741 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was used as "adjusting for optimum perfomance" as an extension of the music term < 1568710675 905414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically using a variable capacitor (which stand out when you take apart an old radio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_capacitor ) < 1568710761 171757 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids these days tune machine-learning algorithms instead of radios < 1568710764 478635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh the diagram on that page totally ignores the spiral nature of the blades in the rotor... < 1568710914 70329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost feels like I grew up in the previous century ;-) < 1568711020 925461 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I couldn't sleep last night and I wrote a page trying to explain what I was talking about yesterday re semantics. < 1568711027 886138 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I can summarize it. < 1568711036 340930 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the radio hardware actually works, I only know it from a user's perspective < 1568711105 193330 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :radios were reliable enough in my childhood that we no longer needed to service them, like replace vacuum tubes and capacitors (they didn't have vacuum tubes anymore), so I didn't have to know the details < 1568711116 480047 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe I can't summarize it < 1568711161 561026 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: there was a reason why I wrote "take apart" rather than "repair" ;-) < 1568711187 40903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantics? < 1568711192 972126 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Never mind < 1568711202 760605 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Good luck on your language. < 1568711225 801858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh. < 1568711230 149186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: There was a mechanical side to this as well of course... tuning knobs were liable to break. < 1568711238 351704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether I said something mega-rude just now. < 1568711317 492037 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, you didn't. < 1568711346 233911 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like there's something I'd like to communicate to you, but also feel like Sisyphus < 1568711365 967745 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2cbf:617e:9cf0:4f35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568711380 635547 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not quite Sisyphus. < 1568711386 206429 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting my metaphors mixed up. < 1568711398 134262 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feels like pushing water uphill, maybe that's it. < 1568711427 634014 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'm eating a yoghurt < 1568711448 180589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Are you eating a yoghurt? < 1568711451 497344 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1568711457 73177 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you know? < 1568711457 563372 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have to solve a horrible problem with time zones, and it's burning a hold in my head < 1568711464 193539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Then that seems to be no reason for concern. < 1568711473 304132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a horrible problem with time zones. < 1568711478 672952 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thank goodness < 1568711484 30168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that you're always here when I should be asleep? < 1568711497 49813 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the thing to remember with time zones, is that there's four simultaneous days in a single rotation of the time cube < 1568711501 897364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Of course you shouldn't take my word for it. I'm just a stranger on the Internet. < 1568711563 39901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just a stranger on the Internet? Says who? < 1568711579 516325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stranger on the Internet. Duh! < 1568711602 935458 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I have met someone in person who claimed to be you < 1568711626 501003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Heh, that did happen. < 1568711654 977446 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2cbf:617e:9cf0:4f35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568711717 378473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know int-e had so many impostors. < 1568711737 43701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh did you meet one of those? < 1568711747 495905 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what is it burning? a _hold_ or a _hole_? < 1568711785 541723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, no. < 1568711805 408810 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e has impostors? are they like evil twins? < 1568711816 744040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all. < 1568711833 483978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impostors don't have goatees to tell them apart from the original. < 1568711849 422873 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impostors might also have different birthdays < 1568711879 482153 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although not necessarily) < 1568711881 260722 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you can't tell them apart from the original because the original is evil too < 1568711963 723186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: twins can be born on different days (close to midnight) < 1568712004 853093 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: correct. I told about how I want to make another similar language similar to Consumer Society, so that in one programs have properly nested braces and in the other they have properly matched brackets, and if you want to parse both, choosing according to which one is properly nested, the resulting union language has a syntax that is an < 1568712005 363560 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intrinsically ambiguous context-free language, < 1568712019 671646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If twins are born on different days they're called siblings. < 1568712030 205821 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these too languages are mutually evil sibling languages of each other, but in fact Consumer Society is significantly younger than its sibling. < 1568712058 462021 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, they're still twins if they were conceived close to each other but happen to be born across a day change < 1568712091 269971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1568712091 378894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twins can be born in different decades, as happened as 2009 changed to 2010 and a pair of Florida twins came into the world on each side of the dividing line. < 1568712106 283977 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if one twin is born during daylight savings and the other isn't < 1568712120 866430 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, Firefox, do you put extra newlines at the beginning of a paste... < 1568712122 625944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Yes, they're still twins < 1568712138 256083 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/paste/selection/ < 1568712149 432832 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one delivered second is younger than the other one by an hour < 1568712233 997002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hmm it could be more interesting when switching back from DST... old twin born 2:59am, young twin 2:01am, same day. < 1568712266 808052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whenever the switch happens exactly) < 1568712300 728308 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes. and if you travel from america to europe, you become six hours older, but you count as three year older for drinking age purposes < 1568712457 468218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You could also cross a time zone border presumably. < 1568712491 394810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly temporal time zone borders are much sketchier than spacial ones. < 1568712505 151470 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, with time zone borders it's possible for the older twin to have the later birthday < 1568712569 941554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp twin < 1568712571 983803 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☆:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ boorjan:boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the o < 1568712572 671820 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's not practical though, because there are few places convenient for births that are split among multiple timezones < 1568712617 868319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grWp twin < 1568712626 462377 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3: other side of the international date line. \ örjan:Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters. \ ørjan:Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it. \ owrjan:owrjan is oerjan's wise twin. \ pico:pico is the useless twin of nano. \ sewerjan:sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin. \ < 1568712677 533692 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568712691 808380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I think births en route to hospitals happen sometimes. < 1568712692 635224 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: hmm, certain places in the US I think < 1568712695 90368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.theepochtimes.com/supermom-delivers-her-own-twins-in-moving-car-while-giving-husband-directions-to-the-hospital_2817854.html < 1568712713 974889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you could cross a border while hurrying to a hospital. < 1568712784 164819 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeah, they have weird timezones, especially near semi-autonomous native american territories < 1568712817 607987 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that it's impossible, it's just usually inconvenient for the pregnant mother < 1568712833 282031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birth in general is quite an inconvenient process, I hear. < 1568712869 452232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1568712871 399922 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:*:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☆:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ boorjan:boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the < 1568712879 75342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1568712889 355191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did that happen? < 1568712894 663643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grWp twin < 1568712897 542582 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3: other side of the international date line. \ örjan:Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters. \ ørjan:Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it. \ owrjan:owrjan is oerjan's wise twin. \ pico:pico is the useless twin of nano. \ sewerjan:sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin. \ < 1568712898 492530 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, because it usually comes with a tight deadline that's not announced early enough, so the mother and all the helpers don't get an early enough warning for when they have to prepare for birth. it's really rude I think. < 1568712899 516157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1568712901 313682 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:*:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☆:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ boorjan:boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the < 1568712904 997900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1568712908 404027 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:twint-e:twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ typoerjan:typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin. \ אrjan:אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. < 1568712916 395898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like a bug. < 1568712927 310680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bug < 1568712931 58310 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1568712938 367078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp feature < 1568712940 653748 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ä:Ä is a Swedish geographical feature. \ degenerate:Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The subjects of this sui degeneris program include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. \ eyebrow:Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature. \ intercal:INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. \ java:Java is a programming-language shaped collec < 1568712981 116023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/n < 1568712982 862956 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line /hackenv/tmp/spline < 1568712984 313232 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normal jobs, when you have to stand by day and night to react quickly to emergencies, either they pay you lots of money for that, or at least people of the profession occasionally complain loudly why the government cheats them out of the money they are awed. but mothers usually don't get that sort of wage even if they have to stand by all the < 1568712984 837963 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time just in case there's an urgent birth. < 1568713188 699341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1568713221 511119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` line=1; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; echo "$((line It's a bit like a regular monowheel, except when you brake too hard, instead of you going around and around inside the wheel, the (1100lb) wheel rolls over you. \ 488) "Do a sea monster while whatever." \ 223) $ perl -e '/? <-- HERE/' Quantifier follows nothing in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/? <-- HERE <-- HERE/ at -e line 1. \ 215) !bfjoust test (++-)*1000000 probably will suck Scor < 1568714089 156636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2 < 1568714090 782203 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\` "$@" |& sport 2 < 1568714092 738616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1568714094 601557 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:561) It's a bit like a regular monowheel, except when you brake too hard, instead of you going around and around inside the wheel, the (1100lb) wheel rolls over you. \ 488) "Do a sea monster while whatever." \ 223) $ perl -e '/? <-- HERE/' Quantifier follows nothing in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/? <-- HERE <-- HERE/ at -e line 1. \ 215) !bfjoust test (++-)*1000000 probably will suck Scor < 1568714101 66057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it doesn't even go to the second page. < 1568714115 241956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or rather it wraps around.) < 1568714116 766421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/5 < 1568714118 497477 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd" < 1568714128 842133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/`^ < 1568714130 511661 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport < 1568714140 819038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that may be a thing. < 1568714149 274247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writes to tmp/ should normally not be executed twice. < 1568714163 764143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the logic goes, if the repository is clean after the command ran once, that's it. < 1568714169 529820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it only executes twice if it detects a write. < 1568714203 610220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there's actually a race condition there, in that a concurrent command may make a non-write operation also run twice. Normally that's benign, but with tmp/ it might cause issues. It's going to be pretty rare though. < 1568714217 289726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Err, sorry. I didn't think that through. < 1568714224 459405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is there's something in the working directory that it can't commit for whatever reason, so it permanently thinks the repository is dirty. < 1568714230 37869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have a look. < 1568714246 224089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg status < 1568714263 217971 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGYj6LpQgFKM: Permission denied \ o6M9ot4UJDYs: Permission denied < 1568714268 860167 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you make it give you logs so you can exclude concurrent commands in private message? < 1568714292 977211 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny file names < 1568714300 97149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l EGYj6LpQgFKM < 1568714302 14496 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access 'EGYj6LpQgFKM/s': Permission denied \ total 0 \ d????????? ? ? ? ? ? s < 1568714303 773732 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :althoguh we should see something in the hg log if that happens usually, but perhaps not if the command is particularly sneaky and gives no changes to the versioned part the second time or smoething < 1568714311 544572 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sorry, part of that was me < 1568714315 555187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1568714316 182710 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ls -aF < 1568714318 161324 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./ \ ../ \ .hg/ \ .hg_archival.txt \ .hgignore \ EGYj6LpQgFKM/ \ bin/ \ canary \ emoticons/ \ esobible/ \ etc/ \ evil/ \ f| \ factor/ \ good/ \ hw/ \ ibin/ \ interps/ \ izash.c \ karma \ le/ \ lib/ \ misle/ \ o6M9ot4UJDYs/ \ paste/ \ ply-3.8/ \ quines/ \ quinor/ \ quotes \ share/ \ src/ \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry/ \ tmp/ \ wisdom/ < 1568714319 187644 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ EGYj6LpQgFKM \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ f \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ o6M9ot4UJDYs \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom < 1568714325 919917 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mistakenl created some files to hackenv rather than tmp < 1568714334 835172 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rmdir -v EGYj6* o6M9o < 1568714336 346818 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmdir: failed to remove 'EGYj6LpQgFKM': Directory not empty \ rmdir: failed to remove 'o6M9o': No such file or directory \ rmdir: removing directory, 'EGYj6LpQgFKM' \ rmdir: removing directory, 'o6M9o' < 1568714343 590766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -ld EGYj6LpQgFKM < 1568714344 810513 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rmdir -vp EGYj6*/s o6M9o*/s < 1568714345 447621 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'ls --help' for more information. < 1568714346 802927 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmdir: failed to remove 'EGYj6*/s': No such file or directory \ rmdir: failed to remove 'o6M9o*/s': No such file or directory \ rmdir: removing directory, 'EGYj6*/s' \ rmdir: removing directory, 'o6M9o*/s' < 1568714349 218442 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -ld EGYj6LpQgFKM < 1568714351 346328 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :drw-r-xr-x 3 1000 1000 4096 Sep 16 14:43 EGYj6LpQgFKM < 1568714359 870498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no x for user, great < 1568714366 712595 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find EGYj6* o6M9o* < 1568714367 560076 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: 'EGYj6*': No such file or directory \ find: 'o6M9o*': No such file or directory < 1568714367 837320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cleaned them up from the outside. < 1568714384 536212 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I was trying to test something about permissions when ais523 talked about them < 1568714386 29926 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1568714391 254825 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have done it in tmp but I messed up < 1568714398 484833 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then didn't notice that I didn't revert them properly < 1568714405 151592 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the hg log if there's any other remain < 1568714512 730792 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the... < 1568714517 518086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I don't think it's a huge deal really... it only seems that way because it manifested in this terribly obscure way. < 1568714520 422875 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just rewrite version history? < 1568714533 508487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those never got committed. < 1568714537 753835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the no-x thing. < 1568714543 916985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just stuck around in the work directory. < 1568714551 942654 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, but I did know that I messed up and apparently didn't pay enough attention to clean them up < 1568714562 352131 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: who, hackeso does that? interesting < 1568714583 223110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :REX has WRXB bits < 1568714597 514070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly WRX should stand for write read execute, but what should B stand for? < 1568714615 131209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullying rights? < 1568714616 57278 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568714711 132863 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-08.html#lbV < 1568714734 701536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "base" since it extends the base register for modr/m or sib? < 1568714751 982402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Yes, I know what they actually stand for. < 1568714758 79961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cleanup logic is to run "hg status -rumad", remove anything mentioned in the output, then run "hg up -C" to get back to a clean state. But apparently hg will just print warnings into stderr about files/directories it can't access and ignore them otherwise, so they never get either committed or cleaned. < 1568714765 81377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing from "This 1-bit value is an 'inverted' extension to the MODRM.rm field or the SIB.base field.") < 1568714766 983398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You told me the other day, and also it became clear once I implemented addressing modes.) < 1568714803 709848 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1568714805 217834 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess that sort of makes sense for normal version control < 1568714812 444269 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just strange in hackeso's context < 1568714816 993247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, R extends the "reg" register (or the register in the opcode), X extends the index registers, and B extends the base register. < 1568714824 608551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you remind me why there are two phases in the first place? < 1568714837 439319 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: To allow commands that don't write run concurrently. < 1568714847 737627 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1568714860 471352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It obtains an exclusive lock only for the second phase.) < 1568714882 505535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg status -rumad < 1568714891 889730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, it's probably more trouble than it's worth, but that's the way it was written and anyway it's kind of an #esoteric thing. < 1568714896 753980 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1568714906 242973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it handle the newline-in-filename thing I was talking about a while ago? < 1568714906 483637 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. it's much better than in jevabot, where if you run two commands in the same context simultaneously, then the changes of one that finishes first will be ignored, even if the second one doesn't write anything < 1568714908 965519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: makes me wonder whether it would be worthwhile to detect whether there was an intervening command at all < 1568714922 643848 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jevalbot doesn't currently offer any way to override this < 1568714933 635806 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what newline-in-filename thing? < 1568714953 836401 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it does normally try to detect that < 1568714959 816555 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I think < 1568714972 578646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: apparently not < 1568715044 668802 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: something seems wrong in the logic or the environment, because like fizzie said, it shouldn't rerun a command that edits tmp only < 1568715068 927801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But of course that's not entirely trivial either, to say the least. < 1568715070 192772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: That was the effect of those non-accessible directories, it likely isn't doing that any more. < 1568715122 205889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: well, the detection uses hg status, and assumes that this can recognize its own pristine state. < 1568715138 337577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: http://esolangs.org/logs/2014-11.html#lX6d < 1568715146 878093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably the real problem here is that resetting to a pristine state results in a working directory that doesn't match the repo contents. < 1568715166 995624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shaventions < 1568715168 255281 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, {s,p}led/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet. < 1568715176 6185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp/ was such a good shavention < 1568715187 775411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think newlines are probably a problem. I don't think there's an equivalent for -0 for the status output. < 1568715189 593407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have funventions? < 1568715209 636184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine: Without tmp we wouldn't `1 or any of that. < 1568715219 648919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"funiragvbaf" < 1568715229 905240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yeah, I'd really like a hg option to just "restore the working directory exactly as it was, including the removal of untracked files". There's a way to do that in git, I couldn't discover a way to do it in hg. < 1568715235 551232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rot13 tanebvention < 1568715236 748961 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaroiragvba < 1568715255 696816 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe the no-permission files were the ones that made hackeso think that there were changes in the versioneed part < 1568715259 466185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anyway, it would probably still fail for things like "no permission for the user" even if it did exist.) < 1568715263 939714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Yes, that's not a "maybe". < 1568715274 311751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: they were < 1568715277 569434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could require write commands to run without tmp/ < 1568715281 443277 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` mkdir /hackenv/tmp/-BE8SJn_Dnja < 1568715282 2793 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1568715283 40475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By moving tmp/ out temporarily.) < 1568715292 683491 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` mkdir -v /hackenv/tmp/X81G5u_N85_r < 1568715293 290585 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir: created directory '/hackenv/tmp/X81G5u_N85_r' < 1568715296 732213 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was the problem < 1568715299 393595 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it behaves sane < 1568715329 545322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the `mv tmp/foo . bug, though. < 1568715354 395241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to keep that one to trip up unsuspecting people who think computers don't hate them for some reason. < 1568715367 384470 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hg status accepts a template too, with the -T argument < 1568715367 986312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they don't < 1568715388 46529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we're just making software too complex for our own good < 1568715396 160860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that! < 1568715400 632742 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So complexity is the real enemy, not computers. < 1568715417 381829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Huh, there *is* a -0 option for 'hg status'. < 1568715440 987961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make it use that and split on '\0' instead of '\n', and then it'll work on files with newlines in them. < 1568715448 634153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The logs I linked to point it out. < 1568715463 725446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that change never happened? < 1568715494 893115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I couldn't find the relevant bit in there, you linked to the gigantic monthly logs and the "scroll to anchor" isn't working somehow. < 1568715500 837094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1568715519 77003 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T '{rev}:{join(files,"\0,")}\0;' | tr \\0 % # joins files within a revision with "\0," and revisions with "\0;" < 1568715520 424530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I download the monthly logs to grep through, so I didn't have the file name for the daily logs. < 1568715521 527795 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11941:bin/beat%;11940:bin/beat%;11939:bin/beat%;11938:share/whatis%;11937:bin/beat%;11936:bin/beat%;11935:bin/beat%;11934:bin/beat%;11933:bin/beat%;11932:bin/beat%;11931:share/whatis%;11930:share/whatis%;11929:share/whatis%;11928:share/whatis%;11927:bin/as-encoding%;11926:bin/as-encoding%;11925:wisdom/password%;11924:wisdom/can't%;11923:wisdom/can't%;11922:wisdom/can't%;11921:wisdom/can't%;11920:wisdom/can't%;11919:wisdom/can't%;11918:wisdom/can't%;11917:w < 1568715563 864521 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why do you care about the specific output of hg status anyway? < 1568715643 948837 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I couldn't figure out a command to restore the working directory to a state matching the repository without manually removing files. < 1568715653 20368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hg up -C" definitely doesn't do it. < 1568715657 316555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: crazy thought... would switching to git storage + hg-git do the trick? < 1568715667 684959 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: eww < 1568715684 717043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just migrate the repository to git altogether. Even Bitbucket has stopped supporting Mercurial. < 1568715687 432794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and using git for cleanup) < 1568715691 565695 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look at the hg manual < 1568715700 562366 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that would be worse < 1568715723 734708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the point of hg-git would be to keep all the existing hg magic working) < 1568715749 420226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't know whether it's up to the task) < 1568715750 989187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd be a nice exercise to update all the tooling. < 1568715770 293226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the 'h's in the names would become obsolete then. < 1568715780 414908 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but... the git part would be harder to use < 1568715799 937465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is much easier to use than hg < 1568715816 756326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg might be better in some technical ways < 1568715818 917923 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not for when you have strange untrusted data like filenames with newlines < 1568715825 97081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait didn't you advocate mercurial not too long ago? < 1568715828 454741 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably not in the normal case either < 1568715838 884790 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I think that was ais523 < 1568715861 121077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it's likely to be better? < 1568715874 954798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the UI is much more confusing than git's. < 1568715890 526601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1568715899 839716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's a matter of first exposure, largely < 1568715914 243072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I'm just making a baseless assertion here, like people always make about hg. < 1568715925 471434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket "Git adoption has grown over the years to become the default system" "almost 90% of developers use Git, while Mercurial is the least popular version control system with only about 3% developer adoption" "the percentage of new Bitbucket users choosing Mercurial has fallen to less than 1%" < 1568715929 689476 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1568715943 69458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got to follow the trends here. < 1568715966 779767 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The git model is very simple and I can always use a few commands to get it to do what I want. < 1568715992 158398 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you don't want interesting enough things then < 1568716060 500800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you recommend wanting? < 1568716061 585262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercurial is better... a) for hosting over dumb http and b) if you're confused about having a staging area between the working directory and the repo. < 1568716099 7958 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: try manipulating git repositories that pull data from a server repository into which other people commit and tag and history-edit in stupid ways < 1568716099 603885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of these systems are that great. < 1568716101 375448 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I've been told Mercurial is also better for extensibility. < 1568716140 148927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe. it's mostly python with some bits of C rather than mostly C with some bits of Perl < 1568716145 190260 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including bad filenames, inconsistent line endings, changing whitespace in existing source files extensively even when they don't modify the file, < 1568716150 379209 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1568716152 449334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: In particular, Google's DVCS of choice is Mercurial with a lot of extra oddness, and AIUI the decision was primarily motivated by Git not having any sort of API to do the odd parts. < 1568716225 368418 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shchaf: also, do you happen to know how to ask git to remove directories from the working copy that it couldn't commit because of lack of permissions? < 1568716236 284855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensibility doesn't come up so much in day to day usage :P < 1568716254 835220 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and how to make git use a .git outside hackenv so that hackenv commands can't directly write it? < 1568716267 131958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: GIT_DIR < 1568716289 34454 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: where is that documented? < 1568716293 970495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think Facebook made the same decision for the same reason. < 1568716308 130201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: but it's a non-issue, I think? the umlbox can mount subdirectories read-only. < 1568716314 217697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I'm talking about non-esoteric uses so this is all irrelevant. < 1568716320 284467 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm, that might make sense < 1568716327 967293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -ld .hg < 1568716330 852154 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :drwxr-xr-x 5 1000 1000 4096 Sep 17 09:59 .hg < 1568716333 216825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I don't currently have .hg outside hackenv either. < 1568716335 89879 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: it's documented in the git-init man < 1568716338 849645 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but... wasn't the whole point the esoteric uses in hackeso? < 1568716365 863353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` touch .hg/doesnotwork < 1568716366 754561 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch: cannot touch '.hg/doesnotwork': Read-only file system < 1568716368 862880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm making a general claim. < 1568716380 628562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One big advantage of git is that it's written in C. < 1568716389 915440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...But a big disadvantage is that big parts of it are written in sh. < 1568716437 473087 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, Taneb: thanks < 1568716472 846774 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I actually use GIT_DIR quite a bit because I can never remember --bare ;-) < 1568716492 578514 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: all of subversion is written in C < 1568716508 550429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Subversion is a pretty good version control system. < 1568716519 923602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I meant git over hg above, though.) < 1568716545 366390 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main drawback of subversion is that it's a very bad distributed vcs right now, and that's hard to fix, but that problem doesn't come up too much for HackEso < 1568716565 611113 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, keeping the existing mercurial solution for HackE*o is probably for the best < 1568716644 310036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep. < 1568716681 999180 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these spams that advertise services to send bulk spam are sort of the most honest spam there is, because they at least prove that they can offer such services < 1568716707 717350 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the other spam, which are usually about outright scams and state or promise something that they can't provide < 1568716739 453473 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the bulk mailers have to be totally honest of course, they can still scam you and underperform and overcharge you < 1568716749 460030 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just steal the money < 1568716756 21940 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they at least offer a service that they can do < 1568716835 951701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of this mess would be solved by sanitizing permissions of directories (making sure they're u+rx)? < 1568716880 747233 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: eh, next you'll want to disallow symlinks and pipes and socket files from hackenv? < 1568716889 370644 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even force regular files to readable? < 1568716937 99920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pipe < 1568716938 318416 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a pipe. < 1568717457 625189 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'll even suggest that we shouldn't have a symlink to /proc/self/args in wisdom? < 1568717614 797121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care. fifos are annoying because they break grep < 1568717624 623053 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd wisdom; find -type l -printf "%p > %l\n" < 1568717625 324444 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./СССР > ссср \ ./the usual suspect > usual suspect \ ./perpetuum mobile > perpetual motion machine \ ./r.i.p. > rip \ ./☆ > * \ ./h4gb4rd > hagb4rd \ ./issue > .doorstop \ ./the reals > real \ ./off by two error > off by two \ ./wolfram > stephen wolfram < 1568717628 525269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that symlink doesn't do that < 1568717632 964473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp grep < 1568717634 84876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1568717638 463230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp wisdom < 1568717639 490602 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?:? is wisdom \ america:This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice. \ bimonthly:The word "bimonthly" has at least two meanings, although this wisdom only gives about half of one. No matter which expert you follow, you're 50% likely to misinterpret it, or doubly so, depending on the phase of the moon. \ busy beaver growth:No one can compute the length of a wisdom entry sufficient to explain busy beaver growth. \ claustrophobia:Clau < 1568718314 16749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It might help. Currently I sanitize only the .hg and .hgignore permissions. < 1568718530 892885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I thought about using the purge extension instead of the status parsing + remove approach, but I suspect it would not work any better w.r.t. bizarre permissions. Presumably it would be inherently robust against odd file names though. < 1568719275 701362 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there operators + and * on rings such that the set of rings forms a ring < 1568719329 735287 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1568719387 653203 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such that *some* set of rings forms a ring, maybe? < 1568719436 21232 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every ring in such a set would need to have an inverse < 1568719437 588677 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1568719457 917722 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very difficult for me to think about, but it is entertaining. < 1568719613 835987 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other week I tried to think about ZF¬C and the properties of a vector that lacks a basis < 1568719657 305723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this is not what you want... but technically all you need is a ring of the right cardinality < 1568719786 90980 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ring < 1568719787 152533 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. < 1568719874 164109 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was thinking maybe you could do something trivialish with two boolean rings < 1568719883 941095 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anywan < 1568719894 634989 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to timezones, brain! < 1568720163 519293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1568720288 770989 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I once saw a stackexchange answer listing the bizarre implications of having Axiom of Choice next to the bizarre implications of *not* having Axiom of Choice... but I can't find it again now :/ < 1568720544 741713 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might've been this one, but I thought it was longer: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1771052/soft-question-why-does-the-axiom-of-choice-lead-to-the-weirdest-constructions > 1568725160 154579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@NUM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66207&oldid=59504 5* 03KrystosTheOverlord 5* (+3) 10 > 1568725309 747245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@NUM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66208&oldid=66207 5* 03KrystosTheOverlord 5* (+76) 10 > 1568725391 220697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@NUM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66209&oldid=66208 5* 03KrystosTheOverlord 5* (+37) 10 < 1568726663 382698 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? banach-tarski # https://www.xkcd.com/804/ < 1568726664 414373 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :banach-tarski # https://www.xkcd.com/804/? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1568726669 940215 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1568726926 214457 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they understand comments < 1568727016 579942 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; d=$(date +@%s); export TZ; for TZ in UTC Europe/Paris Europe/London America/New_York America/Los_Angeles; do date -d "$d" +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M %z %Z"; done # timezones like this? < 1568727019 134314 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-09-17 13:30 +0000 UTC \ 2019-09-17 15:30 +0200 CEST \ 2019-09-17 14:30 +0100 BST \ 2019-09-17 09:30 -0400 EDT \ 2019-09-17 06:30 -0700 PDT < 1568727021 111832 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` \? banach-tarski # https://www.xkcd.com/804/ < 1568727024 152426 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". < 1568727031 596510 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that < 1568727097 543058 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the timezone database (or part of it) is installed, even if very few locales are < 1568728535 250657 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-forbidden-cave/ < 1568728535 726662 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-forbidden-cave/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale < 1568728772 555052 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568729246 465138 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head hurts.+00:00 < 1568729560 731055 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Quittin'. < 1568729632 950344 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1568729908 675347 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1568730100 979740 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1568730121 597182 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1568730250 243572 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robin should probably be split into an esolang and a non-esolang, but it's not entirely clear where I should draw the line. < 1568730273 636996 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macros as fundamental + strange environment tricks based on that -> esolang. < 1568730345 522756 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wait, if you remove that, then what remains that's interesting and unique as a non-esolang? < 1568730540 388875 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Referentially transparent homoiconic language with a reactive framework. Is that not interesting and unique enough? < 1568730571 619623 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. couldn't you just use a reactive frameword in scheme or something? < 1568730589 352506 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does the referentially transparent part mean? < 1568730612 904490 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1568730765 81317 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I felt like I could successfully submit a SRFI for "immutable scheme" I'd probably do that instead. < 1568730813 985868 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever < 1568731984 561465 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/wolfgangj/bone-lisp#readme <-- That is virtually the only other language with immutable data and homoiconic syntax that I've found. < 1568732019 462270 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could port the reactive framework to it; in some ways it would be a good fit < 1568733417 461823 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1568733620 53281 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1568733914 428367 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1568734681 455988 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Screen < 1568734687 978456 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1568734823 221965 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568735960 177413 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1568737989 359312 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568738152 99263 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1568738161 422193 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1568739348 819460 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1568739646 794723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Alalalize 5* 10New user account < 1568740064 969957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1568740369 869847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1568741172 420699 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1568741185 891784 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1568741192 75197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the time format bug that I mentioned yesterday is not in libc's strftime function. it's in coreutils's reimplementation of strftime. < 1568741203 580865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good to know. < 1568741813 781222 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1568742422 569116 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568742448 518567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1568743321 49385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1568743351 249006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :These seem both equally broken to me: http://ix.io/1VAl < 1568743375 515662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure the latter is using the libc's strftime. < 1568743395 845790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless this was a different bug you were talking about.) < 1568743411 205860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1568743826 590301 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1568743888 895684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set -e; export LC_ALL=hu_HU.utf8; gcc -Wall -O -o a.out -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { char o[100] = {0}; setlocale(LC_ALL, ""); struct tm b = {0}; time_t t = 1570230000; gmtime_r(&t, &b); strftime(o, 100, "%^B", &b); printf("%s\n", o); return 0; }'; ./a.out ) < 1568743893 905197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKTóBER < 1568743901 881024 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me install the fi_FI.utf-8 locale < 1568743930 705992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right this seems broken, so there's something wrong in my tests < 1568743979 554213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I misread my previous tests < 1568743984 969511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those printed OKTóBER too < 1568743986 192683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1568743994 209157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I can't reproduce them or something < 1568743995 985819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused < 1568744022 325021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1568744025 938713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for checking then < 1568744055 895523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see what the libc documentation actually says about this, and check their bug tracker where there's probably a ticket for that and they argue that this is completely correct behavior < 1568744240 490576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey look < 1568744254 471036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does uppercase correctly for the hu_HU.iso88592 locale < 1568744326 230556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case it prints OKTÓBER only the Ó is encoded in iso-8859-2 as a \xD3 as you'd expect < 1568744335 659559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can uppercase single-byte stuff < 1568744360 324769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't locales fun? this is why we don't use them these days, and just use libraries that do stuff like this without relying on locales < 1568745757 900143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's also correct for fi_FI.ISO-8859-1. < 1568745772 340799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1568745787 533605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` locale -a < 1568745788 498744 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C \ C.UTF-8 \ POSIX \ en_GB.utf8 \ en_NZ.utf8 \ en_US.utf8 < 1568745901 180976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I probably added en_GB in addition to en_NZ and en_US when migrating to HackEso, to honor the fact that it's physically in the UK. < 1568746541 529846 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ouuychlmeucopvpv JOIN :#esoteric < 1568747181 267523 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1568747481 123198 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568747497 206859 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people in usa complain that college is experensive < 1568747517 818331 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't they study online or in mexico? > 1568747557 891304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66210&oldid=65984 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+106) 10/* Codd */ < 1568747566 710358 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*expensive < 1568747590 518790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who says they don't? < 1568747607 707013 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their complain < 1568747611 606515 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :complains < 1568747616 961572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a php question? < 1568747619 432223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "why did you study online or in mexico?" ) < 1568747654 19661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they complain, and then go online to Mexico to study. < 1568747654 527723 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am watching a program about some free uni that started to charge fees and students claim their are entitled to free edu < 1568747663 786043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the former may be a real issue, if you study full time. < 1568747684 670465 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e as far as person is smart he is more likely to be hired if he saved money on collegde < 1568747689 938694 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colledge < 1568747697 947450 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it shows he she is smart < 1568747700 37634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :college < 1568747709 986336 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet many spend 100K on gender study ? :D < 1568747738 533246 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been in USA for some time and I suspect IQ drop is real < 1568747765 906673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression you don't care about what anyone says here, and you just want to complain. < 1568747776 906546 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a solution < 1568747778 519764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend complaining online, or in Mexico. < 1568747793 611203 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems some standord professors made their own online unis < 1568747795 104171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're mostly programming people, but let's ask the one foremost expert of politics in our channel < 1568747811 505108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun ! < 1568747811 881237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you think about the higher education system in the USA? < 1568747811 948553 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i see, < 1568747827 181074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1568747827 257667 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube < 1568747828 747956 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, how did that... ah I won't even ask. < 1568747840 238324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1568747840 283858 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1568747854 877576 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming requires logic and paying 100K for a college indicated IQ drop < 1568747859 116960 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1568747868 859092 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have kids? < 1568747879 798449 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you beat them up when they mention college loan? < 1568747906 266971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, fungot, fungot < 1568747907 306667 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: claiming only that they have been since, much employed by that political school, is an ancient story of a speech made in one parliament has been growing to by a progressive increase of improvement, brought in a bill to prevent judges from entering those lists in which lord ellenborough is a perfect man, if able, will take from the rest of mankind in all ages a chief cause of the house, that, in losing her american coloni < 1568747922 448730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so talking about college loan is why fungot is beating his children? < 1568747923 91140 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: prior, matthew, his intimacy with bishop atterbury. appears as a witness in favour of wit; he tolerated even tameness for the sake of example they should be deluded, and should occasionally fnord to the institution to learn and to know that a man has not received such an education as enables him to understand that it was not merely a great writer, will, for a long time without pay, or at least a tinge of toryism. he li < 1568747930 232179 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot IQ drop usa < 1568747930 448969 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: " when will rulers learn that, where we used to play it in this house, in the county. what is to be observed, or whether it shall be the vicegerent and with what portion of the american slave, the pride of man? < 1568747934 370254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome fungot < 1568747934 674089 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: by fnord cleveland was not a very material difference in the main but three, which i consider excellent advice: and you give us to- night again, so amiable is our nature, and in some of its members is large, than cyrus, in the meantime, in spite of the opposition met for the purpose of greatness, which it is designed for the great honour which you have presented me, shall never break the tie of consanguinity between us a < 1568747935 862380 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13fungot: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.) < 1568747961 53363 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot cocof < 1568747961 170544 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: first i thought i'd go and see. then i will proceed in my account of the great tory prelate were, as they are now taking the surest way to prevent a total rupture." < 1568747967 870560 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1568747980 846921 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am surest way to prevent a total rupture < 1568747984 857576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: our expert says that "the institution to learn and to know that a man has not received such an education as enables him to understand that it was not merely a great writer, will, for a long time without pay" < 1568747985 522677 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first kids must be beaten < 1568748031 6406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is garfield without garfield still ongoing? < 1568748039 989902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm s/without/minus/ < 1568748045 732096 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :commonsense.com < 1568748046 531414 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D > 1568748046 692209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fishing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66211&oldid=52777 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+66) 10/* Programs */ < 1568748092 588383 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what do you make of the present situation? < 1568748092 680999 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but the fact is, that malignant disposition to which this building is devoted, of its brilliant and inspiring history, of which it is designed. a man, he seemed to be united with each other, but the influence was very broad in effect. < 1568748148 470087 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes malignant < 1568748152 226383 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snowflakes < 1568748164 427233 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need physical work forced < 1568748167 483515 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to collect oranges > 1568748197 781998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66212&oldid=65925 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+1004) 10Yare yare daze < 1568748261 473248 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pelts cocof with oranges < 1568748284 595973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` \? "gene ray" | sed s/.*god..// < 1568748285 887860 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA. < 1568748310 498473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote our other expert < 1568748323 275726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked another expert: http://slbkbs.org/tmp/talk_to_transformer.png < 1568748376 563369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://66.media.tumblr.com/2b8b62a7f4390548136987acf3943a5f/tumblr_nzs9xeDR3r1qz8z2ro1_500.png is every garfield strip, in a nutshell. < 1568748410 931123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: has to refer to Prime, because he's the most popular transformer so that's what sells everything < 1568748423 550496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though he's totally irrelevant to this question < 1568748585 981993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about transformers. < 1568748593 94952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Megatron is also one? < 1568748617 519371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? transformer < 1568748620 210357 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A transformer is one who used to trans, but no longer does. < 1568748648 638725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I think a Megatron is either an angel or a unit of measure < 1568748752 85996 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1568749070 110761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ZOWIE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66213&oldid=43704 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+237) 10My bad < 1568749559 630884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1568749565 655957 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:violation//Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family. \ nilfisk//Nilfisk is the fish of choice for the connoiseuring spämmer. \ pikachu//Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces. \ clever//Being clever is different from being wise, but they are indistinguishable in sufficiently large quantities. \ forth//Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. < 1568750028 974191 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a mandatory IQ test before applying for a < 1568750035 670211 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who here have kids? < 1568750098 704881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody here has kids, but some of us have evil twins or reincarnations < 1568750130 304498 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm my own grandpa < 1568750135 26679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fungot is my grandma < 1568750135 296368 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but, low as was the polished orator or writer, but as to me, and one day when we felt that we must not be understood as saying that there are two kinds of objects of desire; those which give mere bodily pleasure, and pain, without fnord passionate fnord furious fnord really proofs of the public. < 1568750157 680768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is so literary < 1568750157 879245 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bible, the fnord, which, fnord as i should speak as i now try to prevent others from oppressing them, as a means of ensuring fnord the consequence of triennial corruption, triennial drunkenness, triennial idleness, triennial law-suits, litigations, prosecutions, triennial phrensy, of society dissolved, industry interrupted, ruined; of those personal hatreds that will never be able to say to our friend and guest < 1568750187 204447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc < 1568750188 579458 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013. < 1568750264 526703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc < 1568750265 846656 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013. She is her own grandpa. < 1568750273 747366 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1568750285 299496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1568750290 513089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Editing in /msg? < 1568750290 890479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that entry was too bare. now it has something informative and specific in it. < 1568750295 522353 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty b_jonas < 1568750308 682708 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'?usa education now < 1568750315 646811 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'? usa education now < 1568750326 497 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? usa education now < 1568750327 265418 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usa education now? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1568750334 31198 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1568750346 566182 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? usa needs kids beating < 1568750347 855927 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usa needs kids beating? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1568750351 693866 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1568750364 657990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe lay it off with the kids beating thing? < 1568750374 293904 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i https://twitter.com/capsule_169/status/993963705791545344 < 1568750385 795459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats cocof with the ugly stick < 1568750402 481131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: didn't heinlein write that story < 1568750403 934633 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called a mapole < 1568750405 411947 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is a fail student? < 1568750410 1831 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1568750416 893194 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon professors can kick students < 1568750422 482174 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah and like a billion people reply with that in the comments < 1568750425 319425 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ask security to drag them out < 1568750425 909300 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read it, though < 1568750436 999480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i'm the bazillionth and one < 1568750438 365953 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: he rewrote it, but it's an ancient Sumerian tale originally < 1568750439 195418 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: no, I was a success in college, I'm a failure at everything *subsequent* < 1568750449 332586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably i get a prize for being the bazillionth and one visitor to your website < 1568750469 825730 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what prize would you like? < 1568750478 397796 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently in stock: hugs, coffee cake < 1568750491 930294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no imaginary internet points? < 1568750496 862813 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1568750513 361030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you suggesting that there's a life after college < 1568750520 29347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no internet points for me < 1568750530 136263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll sign up for one hugs and one coffee cake < 1568750555 854753 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1568750555 961821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you win a MASSIVE YACHT. < 1568750558 366224 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hugs* < 1568750561 271497 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coffee cake* < 1568750593 969668 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xkcd.com/570/ < 1568750628 6016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :those look a lot like internet points < 1568750642 686793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: cf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdi6E-qzS1c < 1568750769 836277 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make 100 cups of coffee\ < 1568750775 11407 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :got 2 jars :D < 1568750783 967956 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2lts of milk < 1568751069 180642 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants an e cup? < 1568751111 474547 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHcr6R8nbZA > 1568751126 272773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mailman14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66214 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+1451) 10Created page with " This language is about mail; the program runs until all houses have been delivered to. It was created by User:Xanman12321 and User:Andrew3335 in 2019, based on a Google Docs..." > 1568751402 77662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mailman14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66215&oldid=66214 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+109) 10 > 1568751809 339071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mailman14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66216&oldid=66215 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+230) 10 < 1568751966 460558 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568752548 210279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict symmetric monoidal categories are nice. We can talk about composition of things with several colored inputs and as well as outputs, if we constrain Obj(C) to be generated from some S via ⊗, hence getting a colored PROP < 1568754275 660717 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mo noids mo problems < 1568754528 898779 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : nobody here has kids, but some of us have evil twins or reincarnations => I want to have a twin :′( < 1568754862 790544 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is IQ even a feasible measure of normal people’s intellect. I heard initially it was made to determine if a person is medically, sufficiently unsmart. These are very rare in any times < 1568754970 871379 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1568755124 868204 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t trust people who talk about IQ this IQ that < 1568755192 732307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also about BMI < 1568755476 379489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget vampire < 1568755478 328200 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1568755481 986539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we call semicatefory a polyid? < 1568755492 625907 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :semicategory* < 1568756230 11978 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1568757683 684662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Moose moose moose moose moose 5* 10New user account > 1568757814 21867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66217&oldid=66164 5* 03Moose moose moose moose moose 5* (+354) 10 < 1568759434 988064 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1568759667 685776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` datei # I edited this to show only three digits after the decimal point for seconds < 1568759668 686379 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-09-17 22:34:28.192 +0000 UTC September 17 Tuesday 2019-W38-2 > 1568761045 58128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* 10New user account < 1568761833 618057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1568761933 8532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66218&oldid=66217 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+61) 10 > 1568761996 534341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66219&oldid=66218 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+600) 10 > 1568762148 845394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MiroslavRD/vector.css14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66220 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+1) 10Created page with "k" > 1568762170 360853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MiroslavRD/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66221&oldid=66220 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+22) 10 < 1568762598 980012 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568762601 396 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpDA8wgOrU < 1568762606 196474 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1568762954 287038 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the less people need to work the more watch youtube and IQ drops < 1568763071 709769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal > 1568763353 130799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sashleyfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66222 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+969) 10Created page with "Sashleyfuck is just like [[Brainfuck]], but it uses the letters S, A, H, L, E, and Y. It was made after [[User:MiroslavRD]] being the biggest Sashley hater. == Commands == S..." > 1568763394 490878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66223&oldid=66053 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+18) 10Add my new page > 1568763470 84774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sashleyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66224&oldid=66222 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+11) 10 > 1568763641 507465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sashleyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66225&oldid=66224 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+4) 10Link to Hello World > 1568763710 12385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sashleyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66226&oldid=66225 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+16) 10Use "Hello, world!" instead of "Hello World!" (link) > 1568764016 448270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainoof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66227 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+23) 10Redirect from the Roblox-cleaned Brainfuck > 1568764050 128479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66228&oldid=65758 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+10) 10Added a new clean alternative > 1568764147 332981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MiroslavRD14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66229 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+14) 10Created page with "A rush editor." > 1568764220 660987 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:MiroslavRD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66230&oldid=66229 5* 03MiroslavRD 5* (+25) 10Rushed my last edit (i'll be editing more later) < 1568764278 177686 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568764675 878068 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric