< 1568592581 45119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's still less complicated than the situation in Windows with SEH. < 1568592603 514331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to be fair SEH is more like a replacement for signal handlers, which are definitely a bunch of complexity. < 1568593343 966632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1568594044 540089 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568594339 522588 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1568596880 596918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I rewrite TeXnicard (or maybe, can use a different name; I don't know), I might use a SQLite database as the card set file. Now that SQLite has window functions, maybe the ROW_NUMBER function can be used for assigning collector numbers. I also should make it workable with both RGB and CMYK. Separation colours might also be good to have, but that might be more difficult. < 1568596916 409333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably I would avoid to implement hyphenation, but the TFM font metrics, PK font glyphs, and the line breaking like that of TeX, would be implemented. > 1568596957 245032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66183&oldid=66075 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+21) 10formatting, +WIP < 1568596990 879118 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1568597051 717509 :JimScope!~lucia.77@152.207.146.202 JOIN :#esoteric > 1568597120 763785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:WIP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66184&oldid=51711 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+83) 10 > 1568597237 832475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Works-in-Progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66185&oldid=64246 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+100) 10 < 1568597353 289012 :JimScope!~lucia.77@152.207.146.202 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1568597394 351283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Erinius14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66186 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+232) 10/* Prompting to complete Screwtape */ new section < 1568597472 599022 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's YamTokTpaFa? < 1568597643 192061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One user in esolang wiki, I think; seem to be an alternative account for YamTokWae but they lost the password for that account, as far as I can tell. < 1568597667 142479 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me and lesidhetree, sorta? < 1568597768 61956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1568597807 980109 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in my case, i forgot i had the lesidhetree account. > 1568597839 297555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Higgledy Piggledy Processor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66187&oldid=44416 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+25) 10 < 1568597848 452564 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK > 1568598085 822859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blacktime14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66188&oldid=40276 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+42) 10 > 1568598153 968509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Logical/Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66189&oldid=65402 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+4) 10linking > 1568598331 618988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Malbolge2014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66190&oldid=51693 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+24) 10 > 1568598697 299657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Treeng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66191&oldid=45439 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+30) 10 > 1568599333 483643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NICE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66192&oldid=30326 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+146) 10 < 1568599537 967418 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568599559 27289 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1b.pdf < 1568599796 964118 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1568600103 28888 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone look at the pdf and see if it has enough ops? < 1568600191 657741 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a mistake in the description of the "Ln" command < 1568600266 855347 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1568600297 642826 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqxrsxntviojkihj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1568600363 467313 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that wassupposed to be "NOT" < 1568600578 990690 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the pdf and the source < 1568600658 541965 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like the language? < 1568600673 947116 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1568600696 178229 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are five samples at the bottom < 1568600752 501820 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/lykaina/echidna < 1568600766 317312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw the examples < 1568600786 354543 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, for some reason, you want to try it out < 1568600963 381195 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are interested, let me know < 1568601042 908237 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's key that no cmd name can contain numbers or the letters a-f < 1568601059 809569 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits of implentation < 1568601069 736860 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I thought < 1568601145 90465 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Lg instead of La, Oq instead of Oe... < 1568601628 356642 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you named the compiled file "Echdebug" (you may have to put it in your path) you get a lot of debug info on stderr. < 1568601650 359320 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean "echdebug" < 1568605084 183343 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the problems in range generation. < 1568605093 959278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if I can do this recursively. < 1568605516 664368 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeah boi. < 1568605729 776180 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568606053 802558 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/AptNoisyEnvironments < 1568607067 574047 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1568608345 999148 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1568608660 368227 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568612227 182025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1568614510 870930 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568614887 573817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1568614890 124744 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:nano//nano is vi's sister. \ the five wisdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom. \ kulør//Kulør er rett stavemåte. \ structsubural type//Something Bike is into. Not to be confused with suburban destruction. \ almond bread//Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough. < 1568616135 570088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Did you see http://slbkbs.org/tmp/2019-08-21-test-cases.txt ? I can't remember. < 1568616145 393433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's like a special kind of delimited continuations. < 1568619380 386991 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't < 1568619383 981798 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ⌜{ E; { ⋯ } }⌝ ? < 1568619484 755360 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in terms of some base semicolon behavior, I guess. < 1568619498 492376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that blocks nest right-associatively. < 1568619535 798636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like in C++ when you write { A a; B b; ... }, B's constructor and destructor run inside a scope.) < 1568620025 514554 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1568620256 977857 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ⌜@⌝ and ⌜defer⌝ uses syntactical dynamic scoping (like ⌜return⌝,⌜break⌝,⌜continue⌝ in C, ⌜!⌝ in Prolog,&c.) ? < 1568620280 497312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They refer to the current block. < 1568620300 965408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal of @ is to convert a dynamically scoped thing to a lexically scoped thing. < 1568620328 875183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So f() { return := @`; ... { return(5); } ... } would exit from the outer scope. < 1568620340 15161 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you abstract out ⌜@⌝ into another operation, and call that, and get the same effect ? < 1568620363 760281 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can't construct/define such an operation, without using the ⌜{ ⋯ }⌝ brackets .. < 1568620432 342007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure about @. The origin of the name is that I had a syntax to name blocks earlier (similar to goto labels). < 1568620453 373565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ @foo; ...exitfrom foo... } would exit from the block labeled foo, and so on. < 1568620757 545047 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :, < 1568620859 872873 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1568620879 386011 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also wondering whether this ⌜`⌝ (which would also, maybe, not be abstractable ?) behaves more like ⌜shift⌝ or more like ⌜control⌝ (or neither) < 1568620921 174838 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : is something you were fiddling with ? someone else ? < 1568620924 356057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should figure out the difference between "shift" and "forall". < 1568620941 371911 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, now i also see there was a < 1568620943 479223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/forall/control/ -- mixed up channels < 1568620946 411108 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2019-08-24 b_jonas: hello ski :) ( actually i don't think you could like rephrase it? do you normally see? < 1568620946 674659 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: how so? it's not improved at all: how often is it really necessary to shorten a 4-letter word to 3 letters? < 1568620951 351332 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i forgot about < 1568620972 449305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a bot that generates text by randomly < 1568620972 580703 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: psox wtf? haha where can i find gambit scheme to be < 1568620982 162366 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scrollback doesn't go that far back) < 1568620994 196622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that file was me trying to write up the operators I was trying to figure out. < 1568621020 328446 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea. but was that message triggered by something related to something i said ? or just a random thing ? < 1568621031 597915 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1568621039 629466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's trained on IRC logs. < 1568621041 821835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1568621041 901736 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1568621080 98323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add an additional fact, before I read your links, that the context I was trying to figure this out in was a low-level language where all of these things get resolved to control flow known at compiletime, with no indirect jumps or anything like that. < 1568621101 965606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes them maybe more macro-like than delimited-continuation-like, though probably both. < 1568621307 261456 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the ⌜{ ⋯(E)`⋯; ⋯ } ⟿ (E)(λx ↦ { ⋯x⋯; ⋯ }⌝ rule suggests it's not like ⌜shift⌝, anyway; since in that case there'd been an extra ⌜reset⌝/⌜prompt⌝ wrapping the whole thing, in the output < 1568621352 396907 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to recall how ⌜control⌝ differed, exactly
< 1568621507 386448 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :( ? what's that ?) < 1568621629 193381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1568622063 444158 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my links above are just about (selective) dynamic scoping at the syntax level. being able to introduce a construct which is only valid, lexically/syntactically, inside the scope of another construct. well, in general, one could also allow a macro (or a TH splice) to expand to such a construct, inside the scoping construct) < 1568622087 695980 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think there may've been some nice blag about it, too, but i can't find it atm) < 1568622211 959501 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( )
> 1568623387 458345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Toi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66193&oldid=17413 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (-26) 10/* Useful algorithms */ Removed redundant code in addition < 1568624252 914457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Hmm, this syntax parameter thing is interesting. < 1568624350 835020 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568624373 111593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's related to the other question which is kind of implicit in this thing that I've discussed before, about compiletime values. < 1568624392 772124 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "parameter" part is just one way to render the dynamic scope thing. which is more or less what "implicit parameters" do, too) < 1568624413 871540 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568624487 63790 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever wonder about all the connections that are always joined to #esoteric but never speak, and, in particular, which one is read by your boss? < 1568624495 96087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a semi-first-class (first-class at compiletime) object called a "block", which is somewhere between an AST and an inline function. < 1568624525 916908 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not like it's hard to figure out that I'm often on this channel < 1568624549 982285 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, boss. yes, I'm totally working < 1568624655 751725 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : elaborate on what "somewhere between an AST and an inline function" means ? (in particular what does "an AST" mean, and what does "an inline function" mean, in this context ?) < 1568624696 551515 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: Macros operate on AST nodes. They're entirely syntactic things, with random name shadowing and everything. An inline function has the same semantics as a regular function, and is just compiled differently. < 1568624748 579102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a thing which is like a function -- can be called with parameters, has its own scope without accidental shadowing -- but is guaranteed to be inlined at compiletime, and as such can do things that a regular function can't. < 1568624767 829184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it can do early exit from a block (without something extremely dynamic like setjmp or continuations or exceptions). < 1568624785 219902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hygienic macro is probably kind of close to this. < 1568624801 985379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By AST I meant AST node.) < 1568624827 945658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also perhaps possible for you to take this semi-function thing and explicitly do some operation on it, like evaluate it with a different scope, or check what free variables it has, at compiletime. > 1568624842 315527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66194&oldid=62879 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-23) 10Undo revision 62879 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) I don't think it a language description page, seeing the history summary. < 1568625088 341682 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric > 1568625150 247927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bytemap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66195&oldid=33278 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-40) 10+WIP > 1568625233 748714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mbius14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66196&oldid=45359 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+51) 10 < 1568625587 413647 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with random name shadowing and everything" -- depends on whether you're talking about (at least, by default) hygienic macros, or not < 1568625606 534123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1568625640 988774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with hygienic macros, I think inserting an AST node hygienically is a kind of different thing. But it's possible it isn't. < 1568625675 732363 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :different thing, from what ? < 1568625708 160187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this "in-between" thing I'm trying to figure out. < 1568625755 609488 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, from your description, it sounds like you want hygienic macros, possibly ? < 1568625782 999882 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( "Compiling without Continuations" by Luke Maurer,Paul Downen,Simon Peyton Jones in 2017 at )
< 1568625872 734377 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :names in the definiens of a hygienic macro definition refer to what those names lexically mean at the definition site (even if those names aren't exported, but the macro is) < 1568625916 889069 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, of course, if the name is a parameter of the macro, it'll be expanded with the AST you pass in as parameter, when calling it) < 1568625988 51619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if I can think of examples of why this feels different. < 1568625998 25599 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, with something like syntax parameters, you can still have a (by-default) hygienic macro invokation expand to something involving a `return' or `break loop_lab' or similar) < 1568626022 527302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring the whole ` thing above, say you want to define something like a loop. < 1568626070 461449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a for-in loop is used like "for(xs, {\x; ... })" < 1568626124 360307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here "for" is a lot like a regular function, and {\x; ... } is a lot like a lambda. The difference is that it all must be expanded at compiletime. < 1568626136 971250 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568626158 69984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for can't be "nonstrict" in xs, because it takes its arguments just like a regular strict function does. < 1568626168 799388 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Scheme, it could be `(for (x xs) ...)' < 1568626190 106512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that's special syntax, right? The idea is that there's no special syntax here. < 1568626207 423172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also write something like: { body := {\x; ... }; for(xs, body); } < 1568626251 711924 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean by "special syntax", i suppose < 1568626266 92588 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could certainly define such a `for' macro, yourself < 1568626301 887009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that the "(x xs)" is "parsed" by the macro. < 1568626323 287665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course it's still an S-expression, but the meaning of the S-expression is determined entirely by the macro.) < 1568626400 366156 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : (define-syntax-rule for () < 1568626406 862070 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : (for (?id ?expr) ?body ...) < 1568626411 299998 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : (foo* ?expr (slambda (?id) ?body ...))) < 1568626439 39246 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where `slambda' is an imagined macro abstraction thing) < 1568626458 975619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. I'd call that syntax. < 1568626463 119621 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : (let-syntax ((?body (slambda (x) blah))) < 1568626464 6405 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : (foo* xs ?body)) < 1568626485 442474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effectively doing parsing. Not from characters to AST, but from S-expressions to something meaningful. < 1568626496 486404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty different from e.g. "forM_ xs (\x -> ...)" < 1568626520 891179 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this is macro-expansion-time, not run-time < 1568626535 359689 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean that the "(x xs)" is "parsed" by the macro. < 1568626536 120288 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568626551 25258 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pattern-matching) < 1568626641 754503 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Stupid question maybe: what's to stop "for" actually being (instead of just "a lot like") a function, and {\x...} from actually being a lambda, and this being a compile-time optimization akin to constant folding? < 1568626643 986541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I want a thing that happens at compiletime, but doesn't do parsing. < 1568626677 193192 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you can identify how it is different from that, something might become more obvious < 1568626683 97727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the optimization is inlining in this case. It's a very common one. :-) < 1568626708 293484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "inline function". < 1568626713 643820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing is that it might be permitted to do things that regular functions can't. < 1568626763 915251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, maybe "..." contains a "return" statement. If you did that with general functions, you'd need something complicated like continuations or exceptions. < 1568626779 132070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas with this "guaranteed-to-be-inlined" thing, implementing it is very simple. < 1568626819 916409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might also have other compiletime-only value. For example, maybe early-exit labels are a first-class thing that you can pass as an argument to these "always-inlined functions". You don't want to pass those as an argument to real functions. < 1568626849 428862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can evaluate a block but with a different scope. For example, "import(module, { ... })" > 1568626986 732969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Python14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66197&oldid=61331 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+31) 10 < 1568627054 920031 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but doesn't do parsing" -- including parsing in the above macro pattern-matching sense ? > 1568627084 938141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Python14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66198&oldid=66197 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-1) 10/* Example Implementation */ < 1568627087 623676 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is taking multiple parameters to a macro (or whatever you want to think of this thing as) "pattern-matching" ?) < 1568627133 384310 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, if you want to guarantee it's happening at compile-time, then it's not an optimization anymore) < 1568627146 209102 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, idk. There are language semantics, and then there are compiler optimizations. I find tackling one or the other is easier than tackling both at once. < 1568627178 72838 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and what you were saying there is, also, i think, why i was reminded of "Compiling without Continuations") < 1568627225 468759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a compiler optimization for the reason ski said. < 1568627246 588817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: The reason I'm calling it "parsing" is that (x xs) isn't a meaningful expression by itself, but only in the context of being the first "argument" to the macro. < 1568627281 4102 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568627296 274548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also x is an identifier, which makes "for" a binder on top of everything else. If it was more function-like, something like for(xs, x, { ... }) would be an error because x is unbound. < 1568627300 379415 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, perhaps it can be a meaningful phrase, on its own ? < 1568627302 493154 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything you can do at compiletime, you can also do at runtime, so, ok, if you don't want to use the word "optimization", that's cool. < 1568627316 383064 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming we know which "syntactic type" to assign to it) < 1568627318 476465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That seems like a bad approach to language design? < 1568627332 169206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do type checking at runtime but I want to do it at compiletime. < 1568627342 829037 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I said "can", not "should" < 1568627359 137746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other reason I don't want to call it an optimization is that it's mandatory. < 1568627390 847368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a language specification requires tail-recursive functions to use constant space, that's not an optimization. < 1568627414 196972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think tail call optimization isn't a good optimization, either. It should either be required or not happen at all.) < 1568627429 100510 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find, pretend I said "technique" instead of "optimizaion" < 1568627434 632630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sure. < 1568627446 845409 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is, the semantics of a language doesn't usually prescribe this < 1568627454 92636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing is that I want something simple, and supporting these things at runtime is many times more complicated than supporting them at compiletime. < 1568627459 91444 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program has the same meaning whether you expand these things early or later < 1568627473 727267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in theory for a low-level language that doesn't even have closures. < 1568627475 260952 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568627492 815895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'll have closures later. But it certainly won't have arbitrary continuations. > 1568627496 767324 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Triangular14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66199&oldid=53953 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+24) 10 < 1568627651 825315 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Scheme prescribes "proper tail recursion" (which is a bit of a misnomer, because it doesn't have anything, per se, to do with recursion). may be implemented with TCO, may be implemented in other ways. the spec only cares about the asymptotic space complexity property of the operational semantics, allowing an unbounded number of active tail calls, in bounded space) < 1568627688 987002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems fine. < 1568627712 752512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've said before that I think optimizations that change asymptotic behavior are probably a bad idea. < 1568627726 128938 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey : well, but "One thing is that it might be permitted to do things that regular functions can't.","For example, maybe \"...\" contains a \"return\" statement. If you did that with general functions, you'd need something complicated like continuations or exceptions." < 1568627764 286210 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568627833 180786 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 QUIT :Changing host < 1568627833 180844 :ais523_!93bc07d5@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568627833 180857 :ais523_!93bc07d5@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Changing host < 1568627833 180870 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568627856 507554 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it was a pain to get KiwiIRC working, but I'm here now < 1568627880 385808 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, ais523_ < 1568627891 944849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a Kiwi now? < 1568627897 779950 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so? < 1568628010 777779 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I'm not really convinced I understand The Subtyping Machine < 1568628020 939292 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :found esolangs are elegant in a way, but less elegant in other ways < 1568628111 252478 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_ : cloaks don't work with Kiwi ? < 1568628130 880501 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1568628207 638850 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is this the Kiwi thing on the Freenode page, or running from elsewhere ? < 1568628251 732188 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elsewhere, I can't get the one on the Freenode page to work > 1568628316 792261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66200&oldid=66179 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+379) 10/* Any features to insert mathematical formulas like TeX style? */ reply < 1568628394 870737 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568628397 788791 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I hear KiwiIRC? < 1568628423 57794 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't in channel at the time, but maybe? < 1568628434 970510 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be using it too < 1568628446 819203 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what does the "l" mean?) < 1568628458 847891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :new zeaLand < 1568628482 523531 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: kiwi irc is a different web irc client. freenode runs a thing called qwebirc at http://webchat.freenode.net/ , whereas kiwiirc is a client at https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net that lets you connect to any irc network if you know the hostname of the server < 1568628532 925904 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, webchat.freenode.net is a kiwiirc instance nowadays < 1568628538 401376 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't get it to work < 1568628543 618055 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why ais523_ disappeared for ages < 1568628599 821769 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "l" was originally trying to make the esolangs.org formatter color the nick the same sort of green as it uses for "b_jonas", but apparently it's not working that way now. either I messed up something, or the coloring hash changed. hmm. < 1568628620 161077 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait really? < 1568628626 589234 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow > 1568628640 935552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Policy Policy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66201 5* 03A 5* (+229) 10Created page with "[[Policy Policy]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] inspired by [[Baba Is You]] that allows modifying the rules. This is a set of rules for defining rules. Category:La..." < 1568628643 756910 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode used to run qwebirc, yes, but they switched to Kiwi, recently < 1568628756 686978 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1568628837 102772 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :("it supports ... usage of emoji" is a minus, of course) < 1568628863 808664 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Along with this change, we will no longer apply gateway cloaks to users of our webchat, treating them the same as any other client. While channel operators will still be able to recognize them via the realname field, we strongly suggest that you carefully consider the impact on legitimate users and hope that you decide not to ban webchat users as a whole." < 1568628907 424208 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to indicate to me that cloaks should now work, just as if you connected with a non webchat client (unlike before) < 1568628917 232248 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: does it support usage of emoji in the same way as mibbit does, so that when I mention std::default::Default, you see the colon-D replaced by a smiley? < 1568628930 551091 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it support usage of emoji like twitter? < 1568628942 400167 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"does it support usage of emoji in the same way as mibbit does .." : i hope not < 1568628952 862499 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just "support usage of emoji" in a sane way, where it just passes emoji through unmodified when you enter them into the input bar? < 1568628959 292746 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this computer is running Windows, so I have no easy ability to type a smiley face or whatever < 1568628975 433863 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however kiwiirc has an onscreen keyboard with an :] on it < 1568628981 344189 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when i tried Discord a little, turning off all emoji stuff was the first thing i did) < 1568628983 283305 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that render correctly for people using a different client? < 1568628992 734550 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which version of windows? the one that brings up an emoji popup if you press win+dot? < 1568628996 432193 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it renders as colon close square bracket for me < 1568629012 678999 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, why not just send the Unicode? :-( < 1568629031 748493 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where if you press win+dot then colon then parenthesis then it searches for smiling emoji characters from some database/ < 1568629037 400152 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like it is just replacing sequences of ASCII characters (that was a manually typed emoticon, not an emoji) < 1568629051 963428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (:) 1 [] < 1568629054 242367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1568629063 382649 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can turn that off in the settings menu of kiwiirc < 1568629063 419090 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (:[]) 1 < 1568629065 657212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1568629076 713660 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I initially misinterpreted int-e's Haskell as an attempt to emoji < 1568629095 18600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: There's no misinterpretation > 1568629099 18650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Policy Policy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66202&oldid=66201 5* 03A 5* (+471) 10 < 1568629103 154055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote eat.a.comment < 1568629103 514405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :SamB_XP says: I once saw it eat a comment (:[{- Help! -}]) < 1568629104 787646 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it rendered literally for me < 1568629112 92006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I was wondering what that feature would do to more or less ordinary code < 1568629125 397944 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have a decent protection against false positives < 1568629137 570226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (🐱) < 1568629140 773168 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd probably struggle with emoticon-based esolangs (there's at least one of those, possibly more?) < 1568629150 611771 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, that one did render as an emoji < 1568629165 329259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 :) [] -- more delibrarate attempt < 1568629165 933108 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no way to see what the underlying ASCII characters were < 1568629167 93195 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap lambdabot < 1568629167 207926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1568629167 421015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decomposes lambdabot into several parts using the Banach-Tarski theorem and reassembles them to get two copies of lambdabot!
< 1568629181 730307 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (�) < 1568629184 47 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: Variable not in scope: � < 1568629184 165880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were no underlying ASCII characters. < 1568629203 701370 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try the settings icon on the top left, then unset "Show emoticons" < 1568629203 916070 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was wondering why lambdabot didn't evaluate it :-D < 1568629207 209567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The underlying character was U+1F431 CAT FACE < 1568629221 136692 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unidecode 🐱 < 1568629221 293482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1568629225 135302 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🐱 < 1568629228 819022 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F431 CAT FACE] < 1568629245 388156 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe a Weebl's Stuff character got into Unicode < 1568629251 413404 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't realise there were /two/ settings menus < 1568629253 507043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the version of mosh-server I'm using doesn't display this correctly. < 1568629256 858979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 🐱 = 9 in 🐱 < 1568629258 808802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:5: error: parse error on input ‘🐱’ < 1568629261 815832 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is also a settings menu in the top right, with the same icon) < 1568629264 560405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying because everything except mosh works fine. < 1568629275 965849 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think emoji are operators for some reason < 1568629279 499105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (🐱) = 9 in (🐱) < 1568629280 500909 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you find the settings menu you don't normally look for another one < 1568629281 952940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1568629283 740512 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 'a '{~?80$2 NB. I think they even fixed the html style so it doesn't collapse multiple spaces in messages < 1568629284 336625 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: aaa aa a a aa a aa aaaaa aa aaa a aaaaa aa aa a aaaa aa a a a aa < 1568629291 938575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: apparently so < 1568629303 262076 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I assume because they're not alphanumeric? < 1568629308 979390 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah, I'm not saying it's a particularly good client < 1568629311 260553 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's everyone's favourite emojo < 1568629315 337969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote alphanumeric < 1568629316 440569 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1132) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." < 1568629321 673396 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it's still better than mibbit or the old qwebirc < 1568629328 333305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ꙮ an emojo? < 1568629332 203567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> generalCategory '🐱' < 1568629333 909364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : OtherSymbol < 1568629341 733868 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: "emoji" is also the singular (it has a Japanese root, and Japanese doesn't inflect plurals) < 1568629367 44859 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes but I like to facetiously decline words such as that as if they were Italian < 1568629367 121887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ꙮ.ꙮ < 1568629380 249515 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because one susho is never enough, you know? < 1568629398 619515 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> generalCategory 'ꙮ' < 1568629400 870533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : OtherLetter < 1568629405 795122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciated Taneb's usage and I might pick it up now. < 1568629416 19189 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ꙮ = 3 in ꙮ < 1568629418 381352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1568629425 520477 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we can conclude that ꙮ is not an emoji < 1568629427 93215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe I should go back to the older hyphenated form, e-moji < 1568629437 747802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the printed version is just called "moji". < 1568629455 962431 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's cognate to "mojo" < 1568629461 724984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: In fact it's alphanumeric, the above limerick notwithstanding. < 1568629474 54368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote SNOWMAN < 1568629474 968450 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1256) MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW < 1568629482 862249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's time for more Unicode poetry. < 1568629504 684797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any double dactyl code points? < 1568629605 643385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you can write a nice poem with rhyme, metre, and meaning where every line is the name of a Unicode code point. < 1568629631 694905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But automated search is difficult because code point names aren't English words. < 1568629654 265181 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( )
< 1568629662 17639 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, false negatives aren't a huge issue, and false positives can easily be excluded by hand if they end up in the finished poem < 1568629667 590532 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an inaccurate syllable counter might be good enough < 1568629693 418878 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/format.cc#L406 this was where it was done < 1568629703 556385 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode '😚' < 1568629705 30973 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0027 APOSTROPHE] [U+1F61A KISSING FACE WITH CLOSED EYES] [U+0027 APOSTROPHE] < 1568629723 645967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once downloaded an English pronunciation dictionary and used it to search for rhymes fitting a particular metre. < 1568629751 302094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it wasn't rhymes that time, it was just the metre. < 1568629779 337651 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can fit 😚 to a double dactyl meter., I think < 1568629785 161754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying dactylic hexameter, and I wanted words that cross foot boundaries in particular ways. < 1568629805 253186 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( Emojo bag )
< 1568629811 49021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :KISSing face WITH closed eyes? < 1568629819 509817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds kind of unnatural. < 1568629854 43132 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I was subconsciously forcing myself to say it that way < 1568629868 90443 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I relax I say "kissing FACE with closed EYES" < 1568629890 112979 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I recommend http://wyrdplay.org/AlanBeale/CAAPR-ref.html by Alan Beale, the maintainer of 12-dict, over worse pronunciation dictionaries like http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict < 1568629897 834857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ⚯ < 1568629899 488354 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+26AF UNMARRIED PARTNERSHIP SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e2 9a af UTF-16BE: 26af Decimal: ⚯ \ ⚯ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1568629911 999399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no, even ignoring SYMBOL it doesn't work either. < 1568629925 389525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: Oh, I was using cmudict. < 1568629949 31831 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I didn't know about CAAPR until earlier this year either < 1568629950 128587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also used cmudict for http://slbkbs.org/major/ < 1568629951 890818 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems really well done < 1568629976 345300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lets you search for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system words. < 1568629989 61304 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the minus side, you're screwed anyway if you're trying to work with unicode character names, since they have a lot of words that aren't common english words < 1568630028 675732 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they name every hangul syllable and all, and you won't get the pronunciation of those from an english pronunciation dictionary < 1568630044 662969 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any Unicode character names that contain "words" that aren't actually a word in *any* language? < 1568630074 614741 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, there's at least one obviously typoed english word < 1568630101 73007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higgledy-piggledy / Down-pointing Triangle < 1568630127 587120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arabic ligatures in Unicode are kind of ridiculous. I was looking at them the other day. < 1568630131 48878 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I agree that "down-pointing triangle" is a double dactyl < 1568630135 832060 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode down-pointing triangle < 1568630137 141364 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+23F7 BLACK MEDIUM DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE \ UTF-8: e2 8f b7 UTF-16BE: 23f7 Decimal: ⏷ \ ⏷ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+25BC BLACK DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE \ UTF-8: e2 96 bc UTF-16BE: 25bc Decimal: ▼ \ ▼ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+25BD WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE \ UTF-8: e2 96 bd UTF-16BE: 25bd Decimal: ▽ \ ▽ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON ( < 1568630142 97437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it's not a code point. < 1568630149 943714 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but apparently it isn't a code point < 1568630164 260935 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"down pointing" is more of an antibacchius < 1568630193 313136 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's some liberty if a reader would naturally read it as a dactyl if they're in the groove. < 1568630245 993901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⊎ < 1568630246 762984 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+228E MULTISET UNION] < 1568630253 690284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higgledy piggledy / Multiset Union < 1568630273 301906 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used ⊎ a lot in my thesis < 1568630274 625023 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't multiset an anapest? < 1568630295 229418 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn27/tn27-4.html , especially near "BRAKCET" < 1568630301 910062 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly think of it as "disjoint union" (which doesn't scan), or even "\uplus" < 1568630335 881082 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "multiset" sounds a little unnatural as an anapest, but the stress is first and third < 1568630337 135586 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? I thought people used u-with-plus-inside to mean a multiset union < 1568630345 201678 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1568630348 906165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! < 1568630351 609623 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in American English where it's second < 1568630359 126590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⏘ < 1568630359 962528 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+23D8 METRICAL TETRASEME] < 1568630367 19507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higgledy piggledy / Metrical tetraseme < 1568630386 426399 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the last vowel in "multi" has an entirely different pronunciation in American English and British English, I expect that extends to "multiset") < 1568630410 249863 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't "metrical" stressed second? < 1568630423 705707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :metRIcal? < 1568630426 529523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard that. < 1568630429 785707 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I try to pronounce it stressed first, the third syllable more or less completely disappears < 1568630433 719605 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a schwa is too long < 1568630443 583615 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I definitely pronounce it stressed first < 1568630450 903316 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :METric'l < 1568630456 709929 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit it sounds more like "metricle" but it's still three syllables in my mouth. < 1568630486 9942 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MET-tric-" and then about the softest possible "l" is what it ends up like for me < 1568630488 976207 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that just sounds weird < 1568630495 4227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only ⏔ worked. < 1568630527 986078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also when I say "in my mouth" I mean in my mental model of my mouth, because I didn't actually pronounce it. < 1568630536 925870 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"met-RIC-əl" is a lot more natural < 1568630549 333354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ⏝ < 1568630550 599952 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+23DD BOTTOM PARENTHESIS \ UTF-8: e2 8f 9d UTF-16BE: 23dd Decimal: ⏝ \ ⏝ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1568630558 316873 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⏔ < 1568630559 284714 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+23D4 METRICAL LONG OVER TWO SHORTS] < 1568630607 563475 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I find stressed second very unnatural < 1568630622 281845 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe it's an accent difference < 1568630628 132684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agreeneb. < 1568630629 276194 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't stress second that much, just more than first < 1568630635 414429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I never met treacle I didn't like. < 1568630652 42172 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely less of a stress than "treacle" < 1568630662 366683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think I've ever met treacle, though. I only vaguely know it as a candyish or sugary thing.) < 1568630675 227029 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think treacle is the same thing as molasses, if that helps < 1568630680 58698 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said, I've not had either < 1568630693 213469 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. #esoteric is trying to make English poetry. we're doomed. < 1568630707 544057 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I once ate a cake for which treacle was an ingredient? not sure though < 1568630713 4385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps a bit. < 1568630719 708263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear molasses is pretty dangerous. < 1568630758 308667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bottom parenthesis" is surely a double dactyl, though. < 1568630774 825691 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( "Trapped in treaps of treacle." -- some paper, i forgot which )
< 1568630782 260163 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fungot style writes poetry? < 1568630782 397651 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: if one day somebody visits a store, and any patches you send will be dropped < 1568630785 767894 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^styles < 1568630786 244788 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word break is in the wrong place, but otherewise yes < 1568630787 432311 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's a triple iamb, for me? < 1568630795 865220 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm wrong < 1568630810 305646 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOTtom parENtheSIS for me < 1568630828 362449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOTtom paRENthebro < 1568630837 586766 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same way that other people are pronouncing it, except you stressed "SIS" < 1568630840 944297 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's really not that stressed < 1568630849 877981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode ⨹ < 1568630850 849144 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2A39 PLUS SIGN IN TRIANGLE] < 1568630857 214609 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as stressed as the EN for me < 1568630867 541443 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more than "the", but secondary stress doesn't normally factor into this sort of poetry discussion < 1568630892 721789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the original motivation of Arabic ligatures wasn't actually to be used in Arabic. < 1568630898 685931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was to be used in Urdu? < 1568630907 851988 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ⨹ is cheating slightly because the first meter unit is made out of three different words, and it's hard to leave two whole words unstressed like that < 1568630964 660699 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus sign is a spondee for me? < 1568630993 511118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode ⸒ < 1568630994 355065 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2E12 HYPODIASTOLE] < 1568630999 492386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is even one word. < 1568631020 488628 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this explains why I wasn't very good at the poetry sections in my Latin A-level < 1568631039 180078 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to unirc for a bit < 1568631078 894490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ⸻ < 1568631080 186451 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2E3B THREE-EM DASH \ UTF-8: e2 b8 bb UTF-16BE: 2e3b Decimal: ⸻ \ ⸻ \ Category: Pd (Punctuation, Dash) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1568631083 394808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculous. < 1568631083 616096 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, after thinking about it a bit more, ⊎ is fundamentally a multiset union operation < 1568631093 304158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREE-EM dash? < 1568631100 543023 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how wide is U+2E3B in the typical monospace character set? < 1568631107 762585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so many ems. I can't believe I was limiting myself to single em-dashes. < 1568631116 902847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My terminal displays it triple-width. < 1568631134 257470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸻ < 1568631135 972290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxx < 1568631138 480874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1568631141 561067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸻ < 1568631142 680169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxx < 1568631143 461322 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on a wcwidth implementation based on the official Unicode documentation, but that doesn't leave any situation in which a single character can be drawn wider than fullwidth (= wcwidth 2) < 1568631149 37249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadruple-width. < 1568631156 824625 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸻ < 1568631157 641451 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1568631168 620033 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it renders wider than three "m"s for me < 1568631168 945346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I suppose m is more appropriate there. < 1568631171 969039 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :check oren's font maybe < 1568631174 410546 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? font < 1568631175 731864 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ < 1568631185 562101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸺ < 1568631186 387823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1568631189 142891 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's single-width in oren's font < 1568631189 440770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸺ < 1568631190 541923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1568631314 77943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way: If you're talking about English, is there any use to names like "dactyl", "iamb", "spondee", etc.? < 1568631331 641642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem like words that are bad for communicating. < 1568631340 577696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of "iamb", I'll write xX < 1568631347 810042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Xxx for dactyl, and so on. < 1568631395 717882 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sounds like names of towns in Wales and Scotland < 1568631425 681343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i spondeeneous combustion < 1568631425 841860 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( Upper and lower case )
< 1568631432 953218 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE, COMMA, COLON, TILDE, MACRON, CARON, BREVE, OGONEK, HYPHEN, DAGGER, BULLET, PRIME, CARET, NABLA, ANGLE, UNION, RATIO, EXCESS, MODELS, TRUE, FORCES, XOR, NAND, NOR, BOWTIE, HOUSE, ARC, SECTOR, WATCH, FROWN, SMILE, SLOPE, FUSE, CLOUD, COMET, SUN, ANKH, EARTH, SATURN, URANUS, PLUTO, ARIES, TAURUS, GEMINI, CANCER, LEO, VIRGO, LIBRA, PISCES, < 1568631433 472059 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANCHOR, SCALES, FLOWER, GEAR, COFFIN, NEUTER, CERES, PALLAS, JUNO, VESTA, CHIRON, RAIN, PICK, CHAINS, CHURCH, CASTLE, FERRY, SKIER, TENT, PENCIL, TINY, MINY, JOIN, HYGIEA, PHOLUS, NESSUS, CUPIDO, HADES, ZEUS, KRONOS, SEDNA, FOGGY, FOG, TACO, CACTUS, TULIP, ROSE, HERB, TOMATO, GRAPES, MELON, LEMON, BANANA, PEAR, PEACH, BREAD, DANGO, ODEN, SUSHI, < 1568631433 994993 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOKIE, CANDY, RIBBON, CINEMA, TICKET, GUITAR, VIOLIN, RUNNER, SURFER, TROPHY, GOLFER, DESERT, BANK, HOTEL, SCHOOL, LABEL, RAT, MOUSE, OX, COW, TIGER, RABBIT, CAT, DRAGON, WHALE, SNAIL, SNAKE, HORSE, RAM, GOAT, SHEEP, MONKEY, DOG, PIG, BOAR, BUG, ANT, FISH, TURTLE, BIRD, KOALA, POODLE, EYES, EYE, EAR, NOSE, MOUTH, TONGUE, CROWN, JEANS, DRESS, < 1568631434 454373 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KIMONO, BIKINI, PURSE, POUCH, BOY, GIRL, MAN, WOMAN, FAMILY, BABY, GHOST, IMP, SKULL, DANCER, PILL, RING, KISS, BOMB, SEAT, DVD, LEDGER, BOOKS, SCROLL, MEMO, PAGER, CAMERA, RADIO, KEY, LOCK, BELL, FIRE, WRENCH, HAMMER, HOCHO, PISTOL, KAABA, MOSQUE, BOOK, CANDLE, HOLE, SPIDER, SCREEN, FOLDER, NOTE, PAGE, PAGES, LIPS, MOYAI, ROCKET, TRAIN, METRO, < 1568631434 970982 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRAM, BUS, TAXI, SHIP, DOOR, TOILET, SHOWER, BATH, BED, STUPA, PAGODA, SHIELD, CANOE, SLED, SELFIE, PRINCE, SHRUG, FENCER, SPOON, RIFLE, BACON, POTATO, CARROT, EGG, PIE, MANGO, BAGEL, CRAB, TURKEY, EAGLE, DUCK, BAT, SHARK, OWL, DEER, LIZARD, SHRIMP, SQUID, T-REX, LLAMA, PARROT, BADGER, SWAN, BONE, LEG, FOOT, TOOTH, ADULT, CHILD, MAGE, FAIRY, ELF, < 1568631435 461852 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENIE, ZOMBIE, BRAIN, SCARF, GLOVES, COAT, SOCKS, ABACUS, BRICK, MAGNET, BROOM, BASKET, SPONGE, < 1568631438 579932 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so according to glibc, 1 is the correct wcwidth for U+2E3B: https://tio.run/##VYzBCoJAFEX3fsVDEUdQaRlYbcRWklIKtRJ5M@aAjaFjBtF/Bf1NP2Jjrdyee85F94w4jgZlJRcM8mOchLv8EGf7INQMLrDuKYNVJylvvGozRyqaswGrop2jusGiZhPTuJBwKbggt4ZTGx4aQMfkXyBRkAfpKQkd0AMvS7fuUrd9ZfwucwkIa4isz@ttTfTaqrOS6CYF8647yho4lRVB2wGiJht/cctk3wpY@NpzHL8 < 1568631452 86330 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ these are single-word unicode character names, just write a poem from them < 1568631457 89243 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stares blankly
< 1568631458 222785 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to work with the long names < 1568631474 79936 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my browser renders it at 5 monospace units wide, though < 1568631492 797886 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. time to go < 1568631495 588637 :ais523_!93bc07d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.7.213 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1568631544 200596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please group them into equivalence classes by rhyme. < 1568631556 251057 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also just as many longer single-word character names, starting from AMPERSAND, including such things as DUMPLING and BLOSSOM and POPCORN < 1568631680 334880 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/edit/tmp/single-word-character-names < 1568631786 242465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this list of words is good for poetry. < 1568631809 295958 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there are too many verbs. hard to make complete sentences from them. let me try to find them. < 1568631811 785533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better to use some multi-word code points that contain other grammatical ingredients. < 1568631883 932413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, new one for me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koomey%27s_law < 1568631917 929428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is MUSHROOM missing? < 1568631931 275239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a poem with Unicode code points: < 1568631943 831018 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADGER, BALLOON, BANK, BAT, BLOSSOM, BOMB, BRICK, BUG, CHICKEN, COAT, COMPLEMENT, DESERT, < 1568631949 793853 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: MUSHROOM is in the longer list < 1568631952 68408 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I tried to paste < 1568631958 775225 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch tmp/single-word-character-names https://hack.esolangs.org/get/tmp/single-word-character-names < 1568631960 159161 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-09-16 11:05:59 URL:https://hack.esolangs.org/get/tmp/single-word-character-names [4459/4459] -> "tmp/single-word-character-names" [1] < 1568631960 196421 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Moore's law is much more well-publicized < 1568631978 296544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, BADGER, MUSHROOM, MUSHROOM < 1568632030 168055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Fancy. < 1568632032 426841 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIVIDES (the first one that's primarily a verb), DOCUMENT, DRESS, DUCK, ENVELOPE, ESTIMATES, < 1568632033 460241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and less relevant, somehow. < 1568632128 197178 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORCES, FROWN, FUSE, GHOST, HAMMER, HOUSE, INCREMENT (second), INTERCALATE (third), JOIN (fourth, this is getting better), < 1568632224 128348 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KISS (fifth), LABEL, LOCK (sixth), MAN, MAXIMIZE (seventh), MINIMIZE (eighth; though I wonder if I should have counted BLOSSOM), < 1568632295 553698 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf BADGER BALLOON BANK BAT BLOSSOM and BOMB are all verbs too < 1568632316 960681 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DIVIDES can easily be a plural noun < 1568632324 354145 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEUTER, NOTE, OVERLAP (ninth), OVERLINE, PACKAGE, PAGE, PAGES, PARROT, < 1568632338 626729 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, I did list BADGER BALLOON BANK BAT BLOSSOM as the first ones that can be verbs < 1568632387 572306 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: sorry, I wasn't paying attention < 1568632414 944517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote alphanumeric < 1568632415 904472 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1132) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." < 1568632518 706766 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PENCIL, PICK (tenth primarily verb), PRECEDES, RING, ROSE (eleventh), SCALES, SCHOOL, SCREEN, SCROLL (12th), SEAT, SEGMENT, SHILED, SHIP, SHOWER, SHRUG (13th), SMILE (14th), SNAKE, SPACE, SPARKLE (15th), SPARKLES (16th), < 1568632632 669611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: I was very confused by this CAAPR file. < 1568632636 377729 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :STATION, SUCCEEDS (17th), TICKET, TONGUE, TRAIN, TRUMPET, WATCH (18th). < 1568632647 92100 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: read its documentation, it becomes more clear from that < 1568632648 982307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it turns out my editor was misrendering it. < 1568632659 126722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So most characters weren't showing up. < 1568632664 17029 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's iso-8859-1 encoded < 1568632685 936732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I just figured that out. < 1568632708 93897 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's like fifty verbs usable, and if I count BLOSSOM as primarily a verb, then 19 of them are primarily a verb < 1568632725 589151 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably a few more that I just don't know < 1568632788 854310 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1568632818 2404 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Moore's law say that the number of emojis double every two years, if you include the ones that are encoded as a combination of more than one unicode code point? < 1568632959 732703 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: This is a notable open problem in Emoji Science, we need to find an eminent Emoji Scientist to answer it < 1568632963 499684 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp moore < 1568632965 195063 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1568633062 97272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anybody garbage collecting the emojis that nobody ever uses? < 1568633079 256034 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, maybe, we won't run out of unicode points for them ;) < 1568633091 911987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone proposed a capybara emojo, I was happy to hear. < 1568633096 769693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do it myself otherwise. < 1568633115 835797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently pending review as part of a larger group of emoji. < 1568633156 405805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: What's the benefit of this over cmudict? < 1568633160 202607 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can at least make some of those ambiguously parsing news headlines from these. FORCES DESERT, JOIN OPPOSITION. < 1568633164 478725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmudict was much easier for me to read. < 1568633209 467793 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but alan-pron is more informative if you actually want to use it, and doesn't lack as many common words < 1568633255 166500 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE SUPERHERO < 1568633370 623951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This American dictionary clearly doesn't match some American pronunciations. < 1568633384 397356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it says: comfortable : ku'mf°rtøb°L < 1568633451 253362 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some words have more than one possible pronunciation, and it doesn't generally list all possibilities < 1568633484 659803 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Sometimes it lists multiple pronunciations, but maybe only for words with different meanings. < 1568633501 134804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmudict has it wrong too: COMFORTABLE K AH1 M F ER0 T AH0 B AH0 L < 1568633514 127016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I'm wrong. < 1568633525 953898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people pronounce it a completely bizarro way, which I thought was standard. < 1568633528 468666 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, multiple pronunciations only when they can make a difference within one speaker, or implicitly in a few symbols that mean vowels that can be pronounced in multiple ways < 1568633631 700050 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in any case, the docs of alan-pron describes which dictionaries it's derived from, so you can always check those sources and see what they say, and complain to Alan in email about mistakes. I know he reads emails, he fixed one doc-bug on my request. < 1568633654 822349 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how when a maintainer replies meaningfully to bug reports, that really increases my confidence in how much I can trust something like this, right/ < 1568633687 936354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1568633691 459793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for shachaf is Mon Sep 16 04:34:48 2019 < 1568633693 78517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep. < 1568633724 734985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmudict has about 4 times as many entries < 1568633760 720536 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and yet misses lots of common words; < 1568633774 813340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuvoald710-0.2.scm:( "comfortable" j ( k uh1 m f t @ b l ) ((pos "OA%" ) )) < 1568633799 89336 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Alan compiled those small english dictionaries in 12dicts, and used reputable printed dictionaries to compile this, including Wells's, so it should miss fewer common words < 1568633800 640637 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an impressive constant cluster there, I didn't realize! < 1568633824 579672 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consonant < 1568633860 69968 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With all those consonants comfortably clustered together like that < 1568633892 445948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find where I stashed a bunch of pronunciation dictionaries I was playing with, but 'locate' found the above as part of Festival. < 1568634943 63598 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 👥🕏🥩🕊😂🥛🍃⨔🕴🙌🧻🤣🥘🗾🗽 < 1568634944 774052 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F465 BUSTS IN SILHOUETTE] [U+1F54F BOWL OF HYGIEIA] [U+1F969 CUT OF MEAT] [U+1F54A DOVE OF PEACE] [U+1F602 FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] [U+1F95B GLASS OF MILK] [U+1F343 LEAF FLUTTERING IN WIND] [U+2A14 LINE INTEGRATION NOT INCLUDING THE POLE] [U+1F574 MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING] [U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION] < 1568634952 882011 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🙌🧻🤣🥘🗾🗽 < 1568634954 218956 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION] [U+1F9FB ROLL OF PAPER] [U+1F923 ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING] [U+1F958 SHALLOW PAN OF FOOD] [U+1F5FE SILHOUETTE OF JAPAN] [U+1F5FD STATUE OF LIBERTY] < 1568635044 909137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a cohesive storyline that I'm just not following, or are those characters releated to each other in some other way? < 1568635065 175191 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: other way < 1568635081 999268 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of what a poem would need other than verbs that is rare in character names < 1568635093 847520 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is common words: "the", "of", "in", "to" < 1568635101 979804 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all of these character names have one of those common words < 1568635120 490703 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are much more such character names, this is just a small selection < 1568635146 448040 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them, like "LEAF FLUTTERING IN WIND", are poetic < 1568635156 739819 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some, like "LINE INTEGRATION NOT INCLUDING THE POLE", aren't quite < 1568635191 131788 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the character names are mostly in alphabetic order < 1568635269 621640 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SHALLOW PAN OF FOOD" could also work in a poem < 1568635291 35568 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SILHOUETTE OF JAPAN" I just found that one strange because of what we said about flag emojis earlier < 1568635581 372976 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DID YOU KNOW THAT NAMES OF UNICODE CHARACTERS MUST BE UPPERCASE SO THAT THEY CAN BE TRANSMITTED CORRECTLY IN BAUDOT < 1568635586 778218 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite that I think theflag situation is stupid < 1568635681 165343 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: baudot is still used? < 1568635785 916112 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here? sure < 1568635858 533651 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is baudot ITA-1? < 1568635959 876434 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ITA1 < 1568635992 775672 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there's a difference < 1568636279 201484 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITA2 is still used in telecommunications devices for the deaf (TDD), telex, and some amateur radio applications, such as radioteletype ("RTTY"). < 1568636308 782858 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code < 1568636362 441197 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: by baudot I just vaguely mean any of the similar codes < 1568636374 152358 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of locally used variations < 1568636399 169128 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-bit codes < 1568636404 863813 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they form a huge family, just like how there are a lot of codes similar to ascii and lots of codes similar to ebcdic < 1568636430 560579 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they come from five-bit telexes and five-hole tape < 1568636441 395204 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebcdic was an encryption standandard < 1568636460 626325 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like how ascii is related to seven-bit bytes and ebcdic from 12 line punch cards < 1568636528 561404 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell the difference because in ascii-related codes, most letters are arranged in alphabetic order; in ebcdic-like codes, they're still in alphabetic order but grouped to nines; in baudot they're in a different order where the most frequent characters have few holes < 1568636543 695252 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or few bits set < 1568636553 945164 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1568636556 159203 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that's true to ebcdic too, but in a different way < 1568636595 666869 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ebcdic, usually there's zero or one bits set from among the 2..9 holes, and ideally as few as possible from the shift holes 12, 11, 10, 1 < 1568636612 588883 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the holes are numbered 12, 11, 10, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 iirc < 1568636624 83084 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly isn't that much worse than 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K, 1 < 1568636647 316974 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 7, 8, 9, u, o, K, 10, A < 1568636653 419306 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any of the other ridiculous numberings < 1568636729 540483 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones with C, B, A, S, M, MM, MK, MV, GM; the ones with C, B, A, A+, A++, A+++; the ones with D, C, B, A, AA, AAA < 1568636757 676383 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even the ones with 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 < 1568636848 179822 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely no battery will be smaller than the "mini" A battery, so let's name that from the _first_ letter of the alphabet. there could be larger batteries than the goliath D battery, so let's reserve all the letters E..Z for them. < 1568636943 936716 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never actually seen an A battery < 1568636970 771753 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is smaller than AAA < 1568636973 896147 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: yes, those aren't used anymore < 1568636978 855619 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes lists a lot < 1568636983 413563 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :history is complicated < 1568637049 862572 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cr2016/2025/2032 are named after their size < 1568637089 500738 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and note from the table that most battery sizes have lots of aliases, because every brand calls them different < 1568637102 861092 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used like a dozen different battery sizes, and got confused among them several times < 1568637135 271059 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that that article doesn't even have a photo of an A battery < 1568637205 103506 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically means that it doesn't exist anymore < 1568637676 538939 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream that i got a series of comic books that looked and worked like 2-way frs/gmrs radios. < 1568637722 958789 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreams are weird > 1568638072 970112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072/9 of an esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66203&oldid=65104 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+9) 10+WIP < 1568638112 990869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568638241 782656 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1568638264 897540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1568638275 377533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baudot is used in a few esolangs < 1568638278 918334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly the US-TTY variation < 1568638291 964218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both CLC-INTERCAL and 7 use it as part of their character encoding < 1568638331 18743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 does it because it's normally more efficient than ASCII at storing common strings (in terms of the number of bits required to represent the input), especially when workinig in base 6 < 1568638342 143229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I think CLC-INTERCAL just does it to be perverse < 1568638361 269880 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why INTERCAL does most things that it does < 1568638384 417720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1568638394 206274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aim of INTERCAL is to do things differently from other languages < 1568638421 992900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll do things better if it can, but normally it does things worse because all the better options have already been taken < 1568638443 804322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, there is a POSIX standard for tarballs that basically nobody cares about or follows < 1568638482 814116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's backwards compatible with basically any `tar` implementation (and more modern `tar` implementations actually know how to read it, just in case someone decides to produce a tarball in that format) < 1568638487 864632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been using it for C-INTERCAL's tarballs < 1568638536 648108 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :pax? < 1568638557 232828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568638743 467763 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm relearning how to play go < 1568638787 480820 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say relearning because i have a vague memory of me and Sgeo playing. < 1568638798 581205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, now I'm looking at the specification of the original tar format, without the modern improvements < 1568638806 840432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty insane < 1568638814 444804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the header is 257 bytes long, padded out to 512 bytes < 1568638843 622830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(512-byte alignment was likely considered necessary at the time, so technically there's no wasted space, but that 257 really hurts) < 1568638912 90045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number encoding is ASCII-encoded octal, with a fixed length, but the last character of the fixed-length field has to be either NUL or a space < 1568639022 516624 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, tar supports like a hundred historical formats. but zip is even more complicated, with all sorts of new compression methods and extensions to store more file information. < 1568639077 620938 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gnu should have just renamed the format, rather than pretend that it's a new version of tar. they did it right when they created zlib and gzip, and zlib has grown to become the single most installed software library ever, as far as we can tell. < 1568639122 895995 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to know whether it became the most installed one before or after they fixed the stupid security bugs in it. < 1568639141 501607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: aimake actually assumes the presence of zlib's header files < 1568639164 769665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some operating systems use a different location for nonstandard header files, and aimake needs to be able to find them too < 1568639181 229494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I needed at least one nonstandard header file that I could assume to be installed, zlib.h seemed like the best option < 1568639223 220945 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta wake up now < 1568639345 567782 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these days it has dozens of alternate implementations of zlib compression and decompression, both production and esoteric < 1568639487 843647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I think I released at least one version of C-INTERCAL as .shar, for old times' sake < 1568639491 341152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to Usenet, obviously) < 1568639589 629795 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` tar --help | sed -n '/Archive format se/,$p' < 1568639590 638868 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Archive format selection: \ \ -H, --format=FORMAT create archive of the given format \ \ FORMAT is one of the following: \ \ gnu GNU tar 1.13.x format \ oldgnu GNU format as per tar <= 1.12 \ pax POSIX 1003.1-2001 (pax) format \ posix same as pax \ ustar POSIX 1003.1-1988 (ustar) format \ v7 old V7 < 1568639738 64485 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the ones it can write. < 1568640240 210341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I learned today: ar is a plaintext format (other than the data of the files it contains, which is stored literally) < 1568640272 760289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ironic given that nowadays it's basically only used for storing object files (also, IIRC, .deb's outermost wrapper is in ar format) < 1568640318 128393 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: weren't you in agora? < 1568640328 154759 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recognize the name < 1568640389 917231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes > 1568640397 257149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kleinfunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66204&oldid=45154 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+53) 10 < 1568640402 50519 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i was SCat then. < 1568640413 961300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still sort-of am in spirit, but mostly just post in a-d and am not a player < 1568640429 670240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I made an ambiguous registration attempt a while back but it was ruled to have failed) < 1568640430 342527 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the chunked transfer encoding on HTTP is also a text format, even when the contents aren't text. the chunk lengths are written in ascii-encoded hexadecimal. PPM header is text too, even when the body is binary. < 1568640485 877781 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIME multipart can also contain binary data with ascii text headings. < 1568640531 737712 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, even HTTP headers are text, when the bodies can be any binary content, and you can have a new header after the end of a body for a persistent connection, if either the Content-Length or the Transfer-Encoding tells where the previous body ends. < 1568640546 548828 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this applies both for HTTP requests and responses, they're basically the same format) < 1568640557 266567 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't much find text header formats too strange < 1568640592 377739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1568640595 737768 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also some binary formats like PNG and sqlite where the magic numbers in the header contain some ascii text, just to make it easier to identify the file type at a glance < 1568640630 886304 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even bmp and exe and elf are like that, but there the text is only two or three bytes, and for elf it starts at offset 1 < 1568640640 219173 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1568640721 15683 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, did i actually store live quarantined virii on a hard drive? i must have been really crazy then < 1568640751 434910 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i was just too lazy to clean out the antivirus < 1568640824 983053 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hedpvaylxfmgmdwt JOIN :#esoteric < 1568641126 230054 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have fragmented memories of my past > 1568641141 219811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Policy Policy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66205&oldid=66202 5* 03A 5* (+964) 10 < 1568641237 137658 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i didn't know i ever played Go till i started trying to remember my interactions with Sgeo in college. < 1568641255 786865 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1568641377 93800 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have played go on at least one occasion! < 1568641398 617970 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :I met them at the Green Chair Club. < 1568641407 349048 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand enough of it to know that I am really bad at the game < 1568641423 3653 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm equally bad at the programming language, probably < 1568641425 106365 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 kyu here too < 1568641452 101853 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that means "i suck at the game" < 1568641477 601507 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if we ever run into each other we should have a game < 1568641491 805466 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember the rules < 1568641500 961375 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we are equally disadvantaged < 1568641516 332227 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are there any esolangs based on Go (the board game)? < 1568641528 544775 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowlege < 1568641537 408735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are, they were most likely created by zzo38 < 1568641539 867161 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about chess? < 1568641542 376911 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr seeing a paper showing that (infinite) Go is PSPACE-complete < 1568641567 97566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that paper is basically an esolang definition in its own right < 1568641586 649726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, PSPACE-completeness would imply generalized, not infinite, wouldn't it? < 1568641608 877957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infinite version is likely to be TC with a plausible definition of how to arrange the initial board and what the win conditions are < 1568641614 381361 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I misspoke when I said "infinite". I'm very sorry. < 1568641635 686328 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen someone else who tried to teach Go to young people to popularize it. does that count? < 1568641653 644175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make it work by marking some of the stones of each player, and you win by capturing a marked stone < 1568641680 44237 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my sanity level got improved after i realized I was misgendered at birth. < 1568641688 244828 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? go < 1568641691 868259 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. < 1568641693 167314 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: often the way < 1568641780 489274 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :win by capturing a marked stone => there's a variant rule for Risk the board game like that, where every player names a territory as their capital, and if it's continuously not controlled by that player for three turns, then they lose < 1568641799 866039 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the capitals are publci < 1568641813 747869 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :pubic? < 1568641823 938818 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public < 1568641827 524696 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1568641829 813709 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1568641999 476458 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it costs over $200 to change your name in the state i live in? < 1568642013 194169 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a whole bunch < 1568642020 468664 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK it's free if you know what you're doing < 1568642047 793932 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: is that for an adult to change their name? < 1568642056 465520 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1568642101 251800 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you just get named differently in a different state where that's simpler, then come back with the identifying documents from that state to prove that you've changed your name, to get the change accepted by this state easiliy? < 1568642183 294635 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use my chosen name so much that i kinda have to change it to it. Hell, i type copyright notices for essolangs with my chosen name, not my deadname. < 1568642234 450124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC in the UK the main requirement to have your name legally changed is that you convince sufficiently many people to interact with you using it < 1568642256 353163 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF1C58758123BC4A13642160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1568642268 666395 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's a thingy with a standard wording that you have to fill in in the presence of witnesses < 1568642294 742616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, that's a fairly easily complied-with requirement though < 1568642307 436986 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only requirement < 1568642322 742267 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in England and Wales) < 1568642337 774416 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the officially recommended way, but isn't it easier everywhere to just get id documents in another country that doesn't insist that you use exactly the same name as on your previous identification documents, and then migrate that name back? < 1568642339 29629 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to publish my name change in the local newspaper < 1568642370 526531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think many newspapers have columns for legal notices, that nobody actually reads < 1568642383 898363 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :except my dad... < 1568642443 112256 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are these printed newspapers or digital newspapers or both? < 1568642451 73502 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ho he found out the neighbors were doing something asshole-ish < 1568642458 116538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deed_of_change_of_name < 1568642472 706002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: at the time the laws were created, it was printed newspapers < 1568642563 375160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, so apparently if you change your name by deed poll, you don't even need to tell anyone you've changed it; all you need is the deed poll itself, which has to be notarized but doesn't have to be officially registered < 1568642608 974542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is an official process if you want, e.g., your passport changed < 1568642632 717519 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, because very few institutions are allowed to issue passports < 1568642711 287051 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly some government office for permanent passports, consulates for temporary passports, and a few more for special purpose stuff, but the biggest are government offices that issue thousands of passports so they need procedures and forms < 1568643219 464904 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Wob_jonas would work to get the same green as b_jonas < 1568643239 265787 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :you not same person? < 1568643281 108353 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the same person < 1568643291 550342 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i thought < 1568643365 672670 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would wib_jonas or bb_jonas < 1568643377 411162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :callforjudgement < 1568643380 742273 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1568643382 613407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :callforjudgement < 1568643395 441933 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1568643420 918723 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat NICK :SchrodingersCat < 1568643427 984319 :SchrodingersCat!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat NICK :Lykaina < 1568643548 477452 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather be a she-wolf than a semi-dead cat < 1568643776 176507 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the internet, nobody knows if you are a werewolf. < 1568643974 703928 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that note, I saw a very nice full moon a few days ago. Close to the horizon, sort of amber in colour. < 1568643999 652889 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :howoo! < 1568644012 427088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and due to a fairly well-known optical illusion, appearing larger than normal? < 1568644079 776064 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that seems possible, because the moon was full two days ago < 1568644160 762470 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd .. < 1568644163 43440 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1568644165 577841 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1568644172 932941 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cd .. < 1568644173 895858 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1568644214 319374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like writing (cd ..) in a shellscript < 1568644225 79261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running it in a subshell makes it pretty pointless < 1568644354 770358 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure. except in DOS, or to check that you have permissions to chdir there. < 1568644410 185806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm curious about whether there's any circumstance in which cd .. might fail due to a lack of permission < 1568644441 849964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it can fail if you're cd'ing to a filename (lack of permission, nonexistent, not a directory, probably other things I haven't thought of) < 1568644533 508489 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sure can change < 1568644535 622781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember what .. is internally; I think it's a hardlink, right? < 1568644536 723373 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure can fail < 1568644549 716610 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, .. is just handled by the file system code magicallyi < 1568644563 46736 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be represented by a hardlink on some file systems, but that barely matters now < 1568644589 61800 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel parses .. to mean the parent directory even if it's not stored as an explicit name in the file system < 1568644591 11013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link count of a directory still reflects .. as though it were a hardlink < 1568644604 510212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think its hardlinkness is being simulated even though it's obsolete < 1568644630 19347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I read through the possible failure modes of chdir(1) and none of them seem to apply to a chdir to .. apart from possibly ENOMEM and EIO < 1568644661 561051 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1568644695 708977 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that too is only on most filesystems; on some filesystems the link count of directories doesn't show anything useful < 1568644719 282581 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1568644735 239672 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1568644760 747797 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cd .. rarely fails to permissions because you can't read the .. directory entry if you don't have effective execute permissio to the parent directory? < 1568644766 96675 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1568644785 289887 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd .. would fail on the root dir, right? < 1568644794 151 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: not on unix, no < 1568644808 496263 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on unix, /.. is just the same as / < 1568644871 770578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I managed to make cd .. fail to permissions < 1568644882 634183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by chmodding the .. in question to 000 < 1568644896 665485 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1568644925 598103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, I could chmod it back without issues < 1568644930 800807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even by naming it as .. < 1568644990 150565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, I can chmod .. if I have write+search permission to the current directory, even if I have neither permission to either .. or ../.. < 1568644991 934779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feels like a bug < 1568645011 507271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may be part of the reason why hardlinking directories is banned < 1568645173 50713 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: chmod by using its absolute pass. you can't look up .. because you don't have search permissions for .. so you can't check if . exists and .. should fail if . doesn't exist < 1568645179 841848 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pass/path/ < 1568645217 625014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: the situation is that I'm currently in directory /a/b/c/, I have no permissions to a or b (because I removed them while chdir'd into c) but I do have permissions to c < 1568645243 436120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can chmod b by naming it as ".." even though I can't chmod it by naming it with its name < 1568645274 490109 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that makes sense < 1568645300 932310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? I just changed the metadata of a directory I have no permissions to, with no permissions to its parent directory either < 1568645301 606575 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the permissions to c won't be re-checked if you access it through cd or a file handle, so what I said above makes no sense < 1568645316 265836 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also don't forget that the shell does some magic for cd < 1568645318 643082 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` help cd < 1568645320 399733 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd: cd [-L|[-P [-e]] [-@]] [dir] \ Change the shell working directory. \ \ Change the current directory to DIR. The default DIR is the value of the \ HOME shell variable. \ \ The variable CDPATH defines the search path for the directory containing \ DIR. Alternative directory names in CDPATH are separated by a colon (:). \ A null directory name is the same as the current directory. If DIR begins \ with a slash (/), < 1568645321 741973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the permissions to c that matter, it's the permissions to b < 1568645325 370507 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which involves interpreting .. specially < 1568645335 184206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although magic is involved in cd, this is not a cd command, it's a chmod command < 1568645351 36173 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if you cd to a symlink, .. goes back to where the symlink were, because the shell pretends that that's how it works, even if that's not the kernel's idea < 1568645394 640618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have no permission to . either, then I can't chmod either . or .. < 1568645436 518093 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` help cd | tail -n+16 < 1568645438 656048 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Options: \ -L force symbolic links to be followed: resolve symbolic \ links in DIR after processing instances of `..' \ -P use the physical directory structure without following \ symbolic links: resolve symbolic links in DIR before \ processing instances of `..' \ -e if the -P option is supplied, and the current working \ directory cannot be determined successfully, exit with \ a non-zero status \ < 1568645439 963367 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cd -P < 1568645450 979717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my problem is with the apparent situation that .. is treated as being contained in the current directory and thus I can edit its metadata if I have write permission to the current directory < 1568645464 889006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lob_jonas: this is nothing to do with cd < 1568645474 986391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd doesn't change into directories where you're missing search permission < 1568645485 309358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation can arise without using cd at all < 1568645509 209646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other than the fact that your current directory needs to somehow be a few directories away from the root) < 1568645539 626751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that chmod, and presumably other metadata-changing commands, are allowed on .. as long as you have write permission to the current directory, even if you don't have write permission to it or its parent directory < 1568645623 346542 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1568645635 33944 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but isn't that because you own .. ? < 1568645667 152735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me set up a test for this < 1568645737 611063 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/chmod.2.html suggests that to be able to chmod a file, when the set?id bits are not involved, what you need is to either own the file or be root < 1568645748 939795 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, you own the directory, so that permission check succeeds < 1568645757 357362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, chmod is specified to allow chmodding if a) you own the file, and b) you have +x permission to all components in the path you use other than the last < 1568645776 157760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the weirdness in this case is that I can specify the directory's name despite it being in a -x directory < 1568645780 135251 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the latter is needed for the path lookup to succeed < 1568645822 866779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the permission is related to the lookup, rather than the directory itself, so if I'm already inside the directory I don't need the lookup and chmod lets me change the directory permissions because I own it < 1568645841 554213 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started to do some tests on hackeso, but the way it runs my commands twice complicates that < 1568645957 985453 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and if you have a deep hierarchy of directories, you can traverse them with either pwd or file descriptors pointing to the directories and *at functions, and the kernel doesn't need to do any checks on the whole deep path from the root to your file < 1568645988 436880 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like how read/write doesn't try to do permission checks once you have a file open < 1568645993 690651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the *at API works so much better than the cwd API < 1568646009 530545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "let's just use absolute paths everywhere" API, which is massively subject to race conditions < 1568646051 788909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that WASM decided to use the *at API as the only filesystem API (this is both for allowing the program to secure itself against races, and for allowing the surrounding environment to secure itself against the program) < 1568646087 206515 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that because pwd doesn't work well with multithreading, and people want multithreaded programs with WASM in a threaD? < 1568646101 150505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwd is basically a global variable API < 1568646120 255491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those always seem to turn out to be a bad idea in retrospect (often when written, too!) < 1568646155 408318 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's sort of like an implicit file descriptor that you usually can't access as a normal file descriptor, except in specific *at calls < 1568646243 22487 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even go between the two, open(".",O_PATH,0) to get a file descriptor from the pwd, fchdir to get the pwd from a file descriptor < 1568646397 285949 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1180 < 1568646399 156346 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1180: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1568646430 402841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1568646433 154846 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is ninjaed. < 1568646454 39497 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :`open the pod bay door < 1568646455 749394 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: open: not found < 1568646479 86232 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the o comic is on a separate server, you can access the published strips without the password. in fact, we ring the o-bell when one of the strips becomes accessible without a password. < 1568646486 416941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I'm afraid I can't let you do that, [single-syllable version of Lykaina]. < 1568646487 852817 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whatis open < 1568646492 212444 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :open(2) - open and possibly create a file \ open(3p) - open file relative to directory file descriptor \ open(3glibc) - Opening and Closing Files < 1568646590 340744 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Lyka, but it's two syllables < 1568646752 241481 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lyka = lee-kah < 1568646774 386105 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina = Lee-keh-nah < 1568646881 721442 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that's how i pronounce them < 1568648424 366529 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interesting name :) < 1568648758 796519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1568649157 19480 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1568649190 442924 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hedpvaylxfmgmdwt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1568649734 300233 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all have a nice day or night < 1568649745 968124 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we get to choose? < 1568649777 396422 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it’s ⅋ < 1568649877 921787 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568649887 26046 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww :( < 1568649896 897588 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we refuse to have a day or night at all? < 1568649902 173073 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:50ab:e163:13f1:e19f JOIN :#esoteric < 1568649951 905704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no; though there is a speciall offer for the first to use it to replace their copy of ⅋ with ⊕ < 1568649975 734331 :lob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568649982 632531 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decline < 1568649995 690916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I didn’t know linear logic jokes are that fun < 1568650343 771157 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg < 1568650368 118296 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1568650448 436263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello arseniiv < 1568650479 136088 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmcello! < 1568650630 84149 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have a stupid question. I see several people and bots have something like “unaffiliated” in theirs /WHOIS info (that “is connecting from” part of output). I don’t know the proper terminology so I don’t even know what to google to know if I can change that thing myself < 1568650667 167384 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's called a cloak < 1568650705 495930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/cloaks < 1568650742 93073 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: fizzie: oh, thank you! < 1568650766 122407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you think we should apply for an "unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot" cloak for you? < 1568650766 428055 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: who uses it apart from graphics primitives. if built correctly it actually takes less typing for bigger stuff. :) hehe... to task switch, it just the hw you're intrested in motorola fnord :) < 1568650781 825829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if that's yes or no. < 1568650789 930818 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a no < 1568650798 870344 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses cloaks, apart from graphics primitives? < 1568650803 521480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it wasn't a very enthusiastic yes. < 1568650821 971269 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wizards? or is that more of a robe than a cloak < 1568650830 620585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: We will respect your right to self-determination and not do that, then. < 1568650830 729809 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what unholy magic is this :o fnord hours left < 1568650863 363048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard assassins and spies have both a cloak and a dagger. < 1568650891 64022 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these days those are more ceremonial, awarded at the graduation ceremony < 1568650891 966745 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are there cloak categories < 1568651030 138616 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( on a graduation ceremony, a party of people threw their ceremonial daggers skywards. What is the probability of each dagger striking the wrong person ) < 1568651048 970594 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, landing on < 1568651068 380307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :striking is a striking typo < 1568651119 476680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more information < 1568651167 261568 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/n I think, assuming all the unreasonable assumptions I am making < 1568651401 888666 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Is there a God? Will there be a God after They've been struck by n knives? Are they a person, and if so, are they right or wrong? < 1568651441 816926 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm thinking about this too realistically, I think... in which case most knives will land between people rather than on them. < 1568651467 204361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least one person will die in a freak accident unrelated to the knives. < 1568651550 433353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Making some unreasonable assumptions myself I get (1-1/n)^n ~ 1/e, or 1/0! - 1/1! + 1/2! - + ... +/- 1/n! ~= 1/e. < 1568651607 782737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/n would be the probability of getting a permutation with a single cycle of length n, but there are many more derangements than that. < 1568651699 449201 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1568651873 29793 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568652108 78279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmmm < 1568652129 494642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they is a personal pronoun, not a person < 1568652136 359057 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I’ll show myself out) < 1568652216 939764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now I understand why are there God-related questions < 1568652265 346115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :let’s assume They are insubstantial if existent so can’t be striken by anything but cosmic grief < 1568652304 814574 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : But I'm thinking about this too realistically, I think... in which case most knives will land between people rather than on them. => even if people are packed tight? < 1568652341 189495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if considering asymptotic behavior, this should be the case) < 1568652391 688795 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1568652399 197345 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :≈ 1/e is the classic and right answer in the limit, yes < 1568652431 775899 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/e is the answer to everpthing < 1568652457 174883 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a classic problem with many names and formulations so I made my own) < 1568652465 668343 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: not e? < 1568652477 244035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends whether the answer should be less than or greater than one < 1568652490 88078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and what about 42, certainly 42 ≠ e) < 1568652493 755157 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ah! < 1568652564 427997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :e makes a lousy probability < 1568652586 94122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Presumably 42 = e in base 1/4(e-2). < 1568652634 165038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :one cen find e positive enswer to enything with eny nonzero precision by summing powers of e < 1568652643 335945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course -80538738812075974^3 + 80435758145817515^3 + 12602123297335631^3 isn't a good probability either. < 1568652668 451111 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I heard that! < 1568652795 751717 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Note that cloaks are a privilege, and staff have the right to deny that privilege to users if they deem necessary. < 1568652797 826982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:33: error: parse error on input ‘,’ < 1568652800 81848 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1568652807 818296 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry lambdabot < 1568652812 325571 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1568652812 572214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1568652826 89731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lambdabot is used to abuse. < 1568652826 205751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1568653363 607112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m bit afraid to write them. Now I don’t know if it’s feasible < 1568655343 977048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1568655381 129696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what. I just got dead-tree spam about scientology. this may be a first, but of course I'm not really sure because I don't read or forget spam really quickly. < 1568655415 847303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even succeeded to make it look different enough from normal spam that I payed attention for enough time to read that it's about scientology < 1568655469 507782 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1568655476 301073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a scientology office just up the street from me < 1568655486 377944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I see them in public areas (subway stations and plazas) pretty offten < 1568655504 459652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I see the Jehova's Witnesses more < 1568655525 849855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know they have some presence here, but I don't follow the details < 1568655527 488112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on Sundays there will be a guy down in the hispanic neighborhood wearing a suit yelling into a megaphone about Jesus in spanish < 1568655804 72845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of religious evangelist groups on the street here, both polite ones and annoying ones < 1568655855 389661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a big group of polite ones who stand in underpasses with some booklets, they never bother anyone and don't try to talk to people on their own initiative, their signs are attention-catching enough < 1568655940 711443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a really annoying group shouting and singing about how Jesus is the only way to salvation every Wednesday evening when I return from the swimming pool, they're standing in such a huge circle in the Barross tér underpass that you can't avoid them if you have to go from the Thököly side to the Kerepesi side, you have to pass between them twice as you intersect the circle twice < 1568655946 770621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very loud too < 1568656010 956916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a big circle is quite a feat, because that underpass is huge and partly open, and the circle is sparse enough that they're clearly doing it deliberately < 1568656049 997700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Spanish ones of course, but I have met a polite guy in the Blaha underpass many years ago who was explaining to me about the grace of God in English < 1568656485 960074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1568659735 720129 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF1C58758123BC4A13642160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568659756 662885 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF1C58758123BC4A13642160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1568659907 836982 :user24_!~user24@p2E50C4B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1568660079 969660 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF1C58758123BC4A13642160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1568661727 230816 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1568662725 596659 :user24_!~user24@p2E50C4B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1568663019 892238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! < 1568663039 260688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` date "+%^08%" < 1568663041 64228 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000% < 1568663066 341854 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu libc's strftime accepts width and modifiers to the %% format specifier < 1568663121 861282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to find the start of format specifiers in a strftime format. I thought at first it would be as easy as finding all percent signs that are preceded by exactly an event number of percent signs. no. you have to parse the modifiers in full. < 1568663170 516456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` date "+(%08i)" # it even accepts width for invalid format specifiers, seriously < 1568663173 103710 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(0000%08i) < 1568663201 102144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"%i" would be passed through, but "%08i" pads "%08i" to 8 wide with zeroes < 1568663211 543304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` date "+%^i" < 1568663213 602424 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​%^I < 1568663224 456805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that one uppercases the passed through invalid sequence < 1568663431 966528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me that it would be sensible for invalid format specifiers to be an error. Width and modifiers for %% format specifier look like OK, though, even though it seems strange and not so useful, it still makes sense that it will work. < 1568663513 470259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what kind of error? < 1568663559 530211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it makes sense for strftime to allow untrusted format strings as input, so that eg. a web form can let the user type any locale name and format string that they want to see timestamps formatted in < 1568663577 674151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what kind of error. < 1568663596 590613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make sense to not apply the modifiers to the passed through invalid format escapes I think < 1568663608 396137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to consider double percent with anything between invalid < 1568663630 158244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, even then it wouldn't be so simple < 1568663698 732573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally make the double precent invalid, but in a way where the second percent string starts a new format specifier, so even "%0%B" is turned to "%0" followed by the month name < 1568663842 237708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just make a half-solution that works on sane format strings, and gives garbage but doesn't segfault on general format strings < 1568663981 580908 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it should return 0 if an invalid format specifier is included, because that is what the man page says it otherwise does in case of an error. (But, it can also return 0 if it is empty. Still, it shouldn't be a problem, since it is easy to see if it is empty, and it is unlikely that you want %p by itself anyways; if you do, then you probably don't care why it is zero.) < 1568664120 831517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` date "+(%:z)(%8:z)(%:8z)" # oh, that's even funnier < 1568664126 686956 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(+00:00)(+0000:00)(%:8z) < 1568664139 277243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it is entered by a user and the program wants to check for an error but does not check that it is empty, then, depending on the application, the user might put in a space, or a Unicode zero width space (on a web form), etc) < 1568664143 19475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in case of an error"? what error? strftime can't give an error, can it? < 1568664197 454307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one error might be that it is too long and won't fit in the provided buffer; maybe there are other errors too I don't know < 1568664286 103450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you'er right, it returns 0 if the string is too long for the buffer < 1568664317 749390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose %5Y is good for the Long Now Foundation < 1568664454 311148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just parse by assuming each format escape is valid, in which case I can match them by /(%[-#0-9:EO^_]*[^-#0-9:EO^_])/ < 1568664471 990032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually < 1568664487 447208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that /(%[-#0-9:EO^_]*[^-#0-9:EO^_]?)/ so it matches truncated ones at the end < 1568664726 505312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should check what gnu coreutils date does, because it does add _one_ new format to strftime's repertoire, %N, which doesn't make sense for strftime < 1568669349 200682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LC_ALL=hu_HU.utf8 date -d "2019-10-05" "+%^B") prints "OKTóBER" with a lower case ó on my machine where that locale is installed. I think that's a bug. < 1568669371 445893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I trust the date formats of the hu_HU.utf8 locale anyway < 1568669377 231152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1568669392 702008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` locale -a # can't test it on HackEso, locales aren't installed < 1568669394 716282 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C \ C.UTF-8 \ POSIX \ en_GB.utf8 \ en_NZ.utf8 \ en_US.utf8 < 1568669445 221809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a C.UTF-8 locale? that's nice < 1568669577 652748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (LC_ALL=fi_FI.utf8 date -d "2019-06-05" "+%^B") prints "KESäKUU" with a lowercase ä on my machine, which is likely the same bug. < 1568669593 305148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good to know < 1568669601 627921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's on linux, right? < 1568669620 723620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on a conventional glibc Debian system. < 1568669673 900261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "kesäkuu" translates literally to "summer month", which is I guess evidence that whoever named the Finnish months wasn't too creative. < 1568669684 522727 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568669684 559060 :hppavilion[2]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568669699 667360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also syyskuu (September) translates to "autumn month". < 1568669708 832819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason there's no "spring month" or "winter month" though. < 1568669731 520044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungarian has at least two series of alternate month names, one where all of them are named of the four seasons, and one where they're named of saints < 1568669748 782487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides the normal latin-based month names < 1568669755 400401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and roman numerals < 1568669762 829996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say we should just use %m to name the months < 1568669770 589031 :hppavilion[2]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Client Quit < 1568669805 802354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and %Y-%m-%d for dates < 1568669848 637495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Finnish %b abbreviations are up to 6 letters, which I'm sure causes some formatting problems somewhere. < 1568669851 578979 :andrewtheircer!b2de11e6@178-222-17-230.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs JOIN :#esoteric < 1568669878 839716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: like buffer overflows on particular dates, depending on the phase of the moon? < 1568669890 116919 :andrewtheircer!b2de11e6@178-222-17-230.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1568669891 588262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, "%B" is always the same as "%bkuu". < 1568669912 965637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("kuu" being the Moon.) < 1568669945 391260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, tests misteriously failing on saturdays between 10 september and 31 september on full moon if the wind speed is over 100 km/h < 1568670012 7943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once submitted some code at work that got automagically blamed as a build-breaking change because it was the first change submitted after the time when a time-based unit test stopped working. < 1568670034 55313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is "misterious" a foggy version of "mysterious"? < 1568670054 177183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1568670072 356301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B3nap#Magyar_h%C3%B3napnevek lists _four_ series of alternate months names < 1568670084 339546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of those names don't even make sense < 1568670120 959247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sayss that columns 5 and 6 don't count, so only three series < 1568670146 261634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with the saints, one with the seasons, and a weird one < 1568670187 784201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot more month names than we've got. < 1568670516 864006 :andrewtheircer!b2de11e6@178-222-17-230.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568670536 434131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely know the normal latin-based month names anyway. I always keep forgetting which names are for month 08, 09, and 10. < 1568670607 385240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :calendars are supposed to track this, but half of them don't show both the month number and month name together < 1568670726 894611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` for m in 08 09 10; do date "+%m %B" -d "2019-$m"; done < 1568670730 887387 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :date: invalid date '2019-08' \ date: invalid date '2019-09' \ date: invalid date '2019-10' < 1568670735 681529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1568670739 915528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` for m in 08 09 10; do date "+%m %B" -d "2019-$m-01"; done < 1568670741 769635 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :08 August \ 09 September \ 10 October < 1568671373 682579 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that. < 1568671404 620598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`locale < 1568671406 330860 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ALL= < 1568671407 754028 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` locale < 1568671409 481522 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL= < 1568671416 576061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: C < 1568671425 164272 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1568671436 784606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` locale < 1568671438 627670 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ALL= < 1568671452 633356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two backticks gives New Zealand english locale, three backticks gives C locale < 1568671463 774216 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no I mean the `for m in 08 09 10; do date "+%m %B" -d "2019-$m-01"; done` < 1568671470 340304 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that just bash? < 1568671472 648091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` locale; for m in 08 09 10; do date "+%m %B" -d "2019-$m-01"; done < 1568671474 740919 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL= \ 08 August \ 09 September \ 10 October < 1568671475 295967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's bash < 1568671477 53013 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, shellscrip- yup, that is. < 1568671505 134209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $BASH $BASH_VERSION < 1568671508 32513 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash 4.4.12(1)-release < 1568671898 960852 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568672930 388249 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568672955 148340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skill Bite {XUR} Instant ;; Target creature you control deals X damage to another target creature; X can't be more than the first creature's power. If any damage is dealt in tihs way, the first creature gains copies of all of the second creature's activated abilities until end of turn. ;; Cycling {3} ;; Flashback {X2UR} < 1568673010 190181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Sunrise {2W} Instant ;; Skip the next main phase. < 1568673098 874640 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1568673107 540983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can write your comment/complaint of this please. < 1568673115 643850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that latter is sort of like a Silence, right? < 1568673163 364892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a little bit, but it is different. < 1568673181 765890 :rickbutton!~rickbutto@134.209.72.59 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+bionic0 - https://znc.in < 1568673194 213736 :rickbutton!~rickbutto@134.209.72.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568673258 339336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now I thought of what feature should be adding in TeXnicard, which is, something to help with the collaboration, maybe. < 1568673336 393495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure that first one works. what happens if you choose a too high value of X? you choose X before the targets. it should be phrased to restrict the first target I think. < 1568673362 408077 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1568673366 784995 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it does restrict the valid targets, even though the wording is like that. < 1568673379 354148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the cannibal abaility, that's ... weird, but might work, I dunno < 1568673400 470566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/abai/abi/ < 1568673451 829434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's especially funny when the damage is redirected < 1568673561 743736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when it steals loyalty abilities, and yes, I know that happens with other quicksilver abilities too < 1568674298 598514 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568674310 685966 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I ask a php related question? < 1568674326 940866 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my nick registration is pending < 1568674439 540450 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:2d15:65a8:c6dd:6c2d JOIN :#esoteric < 1568674612 603044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you can try < 1568674640 964915 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:50ab:e163:13f1:e19f QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1568674963 127451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :? php < 1568674969 392088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? php < 1568674972 54903 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :php is the PigeonHole Principle < 1568674991 601069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1568675017 168626 :cocof!402ab343@64.42.179.67 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568675630 754797 :rickbutton!~rickbutto@134.209.72.59 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+bionic0 - https://znc.in < 1568676379 911971 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568676727 595766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1568677216 359087 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1568677296 226511 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1568678231 357243 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye... (feeling too sick to stay connected) < 1568678244 438852 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving