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05:03:31 <esowiki> [[Keg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65471&oldid=65455 * A * (+36) /* Extended command glossary */ Invented shorter name
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13:44:45 <esowiki> [[Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65472&oldid=56982 * Gamer * (+32)
13:45:04 <esowiki> [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65473&oldid=65472 * Gamer * (+2) /* Interpreters */
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14:55:57 <Taneb> What is your new esolang.
14:56:02 <cpressey> https://gist.github.com/cpressey/2e0cc1b07b716a7793ba2d674fa8bee9
14:56:12 <cpressey> It's a second-order concatenative language.
14:56:40 <cpressey> It's probably not Turing-complete.
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15:03:14 <int-e> cpressey: so the type is ([Int] -> [Int]) -> ([Int] -> [Int])?
15:03:29 * int-e is trying to get the gist without reading the whole thing
15:04:31 <cpressey> int-e: That's correct (unbounded Int to be clear)
15:05:25 <int-e> > let i = (.) (1:); s = (.) (\(a:b:ss) -> (a-b):ss) in (s . s . i) id []
15:05:27 <lambdabot> *Exception: <interactive>:3:28-48: Non-exhaustive patterns in lambda
15:05:30 <int-e> > let i = (.) (1:); s = (.) (\(a:b:ss) -> (a-b):ss) in (s . i . i) id []
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15:16:17 <wob_jonas> cpressey: is this a release or merely an escape?
15:16:27 <int-e> cpressey: so... http://paste.debian.net/1095634/ ?
15:18:33 <wob_jonas> cpressey: I don't understand. why wouldn't second order functions be enough for turing-completeness? you can just have second order functions that implement a while loop.
15:19:47 <wob_jonas> oh, you want the second order to be a concatenative language too
15:21:04 <int-e> cpressey: same code, a few more type signatures: http://paste.debian.net/1095635/
15:21:26 <wob_jonas> cpressey: could you perhaps translate Blindfolded Arithmetic into such a thing? each ordinary instruction of Blindfolded arithmetic is a plain function that treats a fixed-size top part of the stack as the register file, and you need a single second order function to turn the whole thing into a loop
15:21:36 <wob_jonas> you'd have to change the exit condition, but that isn't much of a problem
15:22:37 <int-e> oh I missed the pop operation.
15:23:35 <cpressey> int-e: Your code looks not dissimilar to mine
15:23:58 <int-e> and I got the while wrong. Hmm.
15:24:36 <cpressey> wob_jonas: The last few paragraphs try to talk about why even that is difficult (how do you select the instruction, if all you have are strictly-singly-nested loops?)
15:24:41 <wob_jonas> and note that you don't even need the hard part of Blindfolded arithmetic, because you can just have built-in conditinoal functions
15:25:04 <int-e> cpressey: so here's another version: http://paste.debian.net/1095636/
15:25:10 <wob_jonas> cpressey: that's the part that doesn't matter here, because you can have value conditional (not code conditional) instructions built into your language as primitives
15:26:22 <wob_jonas> basically you translate an ordinary program to an explicit instruction pointer and a big loop that blindly loops around all instructions of the original program, but only stores the results of those instructions if the program counter points to that particular instruction
15:26:26 <int-e> cpressey: funny how much clearer that makes the language to my brain :P
15:26:50 <int-e> cpressey: (of course the point isn't so much the code itself as the exercise of writing it)
15:26:56 <wob_jonas> when the program counter points to somewhere else, you compute the result and ignore it. it's inefficient, but works.
15:28:43 <cpressey> Built-in conditionals might work, but seem a bit like cheating.
15:28:52 <cpressey> Alas, I must be off. A la prochaine.
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15:29:32 <wob_jonas> well, if you don't want built-in conditionals, then you have to look at how you can program Blindfolded arithmetic.
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17:48:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Redwolf10105 * New user account
17:50:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65474&oldid=65418 * Redwolf10105 * (+161) /* Introductions */
18:36:34 <esowiki> [[Bootstrapping]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65475 * Lucas * (+23) Redirecting to [[Bootstrap]]
18:40:36 <esowiki> [[Bootstrap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65476&oldid=61778 * Lucas * (+66) Link to [[Wikipedia:C (programming language)|C at Wikipedia]]
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18:49:50 <esowiki> [[Fusion Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65477&oldid=57100 * Lucas * (+4) Link to [[bootstrap]]
18:50:12 <esowiki> [[MUMON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65478&oldid=12083 * Lucas * (+4) Link to [[bootstrap]]
18:52:02 <esowiki> [[Pipe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65479 * Redwolf10105 * (+5141) Created page with "Pipe is a language designed by Programming Puzzles and Code-Golf user RedwolfPrograms. Nonnegative integers can be stored either in a stack or in a value known as the pipe. Pu..."
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19:20:05 <int-e> @tell cpressey http://paste.debian.net/1095661/ has an example of a tag system in Wagon. (This generalizes to arbitrary tag systems.) It uses two nested loops. It may be possible to get away with a single loop, actually.
19:35:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CrispyPin * New user account
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19:43:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65480&oldid=65474 * CrispyPin * (+293)
20:08:10 <HackEso> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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22:42:42 <int-e> @tell cpressey One more update for Wagon, now with an actual translation from tag systems and more comments: http://paste.debian.net/1095671/
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