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00:55:43 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Can Sgeolang be ALGOL 68?
00:55:50 <shachaf> That language was so good.
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01:52:29 <shachaf> @metar koak
01:52:29 <lambdabot> KOAK 070053Z 30013KT 10SM FEW009 BKN180 20/13 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP123 T02000133
02:41:19 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65321&oldid=65319 * A * (+139) 
02:45:09 <fizzie> @metar KSFO
02:45:10 <lambdabot> KSFO 070156Z 27015KT 10SM FEW007 SCT180 19/12 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP123 T01890122
02:45:42 <fizzie> The US codes are so easy.
02:45:48 <fizzie> Just add K.
02:49:18 <kmc> yes
02:49:38 <kmc> @metar KSJC
02:49:39 <lambdabot> KSJC 070153Z 33014KT 10SM FEW050 SCT100 BKN160 23/16 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP117 T02280161 $
03:23:36 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65322&oldid=65296 * Areallycoolusername * (+237) 
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04:15:39 <zzo38> If you spit poison will it last? I would think it might lose its potency after enough time has passed, especially if the floor might absorb it and if it is exposed to the wind.
04:21:55 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65323&oldid=65321 * A * (+16) 
04:26:14 <kmc> it would depend on the poison, I suppose
04:30:16 <Hooloovo0> and, presumably the floor and wind speed
04:35:27 <zzo38> Yes, OK, I suppose so.
04:35:54 <zzo38> What else do you think might affect it?
04:40:08 <Hooloovo0> vapor pressure, temperature, phase of the moon
04:45:02 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65324&oldid=65323 * A * (+120) 
04:45:17 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65325&oldid=65324 * A * (-36) /* Set-manipulational instructions */
04:48:57 <zzo38> OK
05:02:31 <Sgeo_> I wish ShaderToy would do a little bit of server-side rendering so it would be possible to browse the list without melting my GPU
05:04:36 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65326&oldid=65325 * A * (+443) 
05:07:44 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65327&oldid=65326 * A * (-35) 
05:16:15 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65328&oldid=65327 * A * (-77) /* Output its own golf score */
05:22:03 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65329&oldid=65328 * A * (+49) 
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06:24:22 <salpynx> I'm trying to track down a copy of the original P-double-prime (𝓟″) paper from 1964, pp.187-194 vol. 3 of the ICC Bulletin. It seems like a digital copy is non-existent. Has anyone here ever seen one?
06:24:39 <salpynx> I'm contemplating making a copy (8 pages) from a physical library https://www.worldcat.org/title/icc-bulletin/oclc/2222680 but it'll be a bit of a long-term mission.
06:26:33 <salpynx> There's a 1979 paper which mentions 𝓟′ which is the original language that 𝓟″ is a context-free improvement on. Also a 𝓟‴ lang (P-triple-prime!) by D. Skordev (1976) is briefly described, and a further development, 𝓟⁰ by the author, Solomon Passy.
06:27:48 <salpynx> I did find copies of Bohm and Jacopini's paper on Flow Diagrams which talks about both 𝓟′ & 𝓟″, and Bohm's 1954 thesis in original French and 2016 English translation, which predates those languages, but relates to digital computing.
06:28:07 <salpynx> The 1964 paper does not appear to be online ... yet
06:31:16 <salpynx> The 1979 paper that describes the extended 𝓟 languages is available https://documents.pub/document/structured-programs-for-turing-machines.html
06:38:58 <shachaf> You could try asking User:R.e.s.
06:40:20 <int-e> Solomon Passy... never heard of him...
06:45:02 <int-e> Ah, but Böhm is famous of course.
06:46:27 <int-e> If it's the right Böhm that is, hmm.
06:46:54 <int-e> but that seems to be the case... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hm_tree
06:47:19 <int-e> (*not* the garbage collector person)
06:51:35 <salpynx> yup, Corado Böhm is the creator of 𝓟″
06:52:50 <int-e> wow. https://doi.org/10.2307/2270680 ... that's a 3 line review (fully visible in the screenshot) that they offer to let you buy for 30 Euros...
06:53:58 <salpynx> int-e: yes, that kept turning up. It took me a while to realise that the 3 line review was actually the full content for that DOI!
06:56:27 <salpynx> The best info I could find from others who went looking is here https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/14983/how-to-prove-the-structured-program-theorem but it's not clear that they got to see it.
06:57:05 <salpynx> oh, wow, that's User:R.e.s that shachaf just mentioned?
07:01:11 <int-e> Anyway I agree that the paper doesn't appear to be available online.
07:06:20 <esowiki> [[MUSYS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65330&oldid=63184 * Salpynx * (+69) /* References */  add DOI for the original MUSYS paper
07:08:11 <salpynx> I have found the original paper for this MUSYS language from 1973 which I had been searching for for some time, so I might try to add some more details to the wiki.
07:08:12 <shachaf> I was talking about the esowiki and Wikipedia user.
07:14:18 <salpynx> shacaf: looks like a SE user too, since that username appears on the page I linked to as well
07:19:19 <salpynx> and Solomon Passy seems to be active and more well known in Bulgarian politics, ... and USB charging?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Passy
07:44:36 <int-e> Oh, that was a worthy and successful initiative indeed. (But I didn't know who was behind it.)
07:45:37 <int-e> Downside: mobile phones no longer come with chargers. Upside: you can buy mobile phone chargers, and nobody will ask you what mobile phone you have.
07:46:46 <shachaf> Neither of those matches my experience?
07:47:35 <int-e> (Well they messed it up because while chargers are USB based you still need to know the kind of plug... :P)
07:48:49 <int-e> And tbh this is all theory to me. I don't have a smartphone.
07:48:49 <shachaf> At least there are USB type-C and Apple Lightning.
07:49:01 <shachaf> And probably still MicroUSB.
07:49:52 <int-e> In any case I do believe that the situation is far less messy than it was 10 years ago.
07:50:08 <shachaf> I have one charger that charges both my laptop computer and mobile phone.
07:50:12 <shachaf> Very convenient.
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07:51:22 <int-e> until you want to charge them both at the same time? hmm
07:51:32 <int-e> maybe you can plug the phone into the laptop for that
07:52:04 <shachaf> I'd need a second cable.
07:55:01 <int-e> Yes, sure, and the laptop USB charging/electricity distribution (hmm let's say motherboard) has to be up for it as well.
07:55:25 <int-e> (I don't really know enough to be more specific than "motherboard" which is bascially all of the computer :P)
07:58:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Dtuser1337 *  New user account
08:06:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65331&oldid=65316 * Dtuser1337 * (+326) ;)
08:10:33 <esowiki> [[DDR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65332&oldid=64007 * Dtuser1337 * (+60) adding new category
08:11:12 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/String]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65333&oldid=65329 * A * (-222) 
08:15:26 <esowiki> [[User:Dtuser]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65334 * Dtuser1337 * (+39) moved to my new user. (plz dont banish me because i cannot use this (my old) accounts.)
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08:35:49 <esowiki> [[Stlisp]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65335&oldid=42087 * Dtuser1337 * (+18) 
09:01:24 <int-e> So I just heard the phrase "the philosophy of bullshit" and my immediate reaction was that this seems redundant...
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09:33:44 <shachaf> That seems unfair.
09:40:10 <rain2> name one good philosohpy
09:45:43 <shachaf> x
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09:50:20 <int-e> shachaf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ommr0Te4A was the context.
09:52:12 <int-e> shachaf: The thing is, it's really hard to tell philosophy and philosophical bullshit apart. I often can't. Also the categorization will differ from person to person.
10:10:55 <cpressey> At minimum you would seem to need to hold a philosophy in which a distinction can be made between the two, in order to distinguish between the two.
10:11:32 <cpressey> Annoyingly, you can't make someone else also hold such a philosophy.
10:12:11 <cpressey> Additionally, some people just like to argue.
10:13:47 <int-e> cpressey: I find that last statement offensive.
10:14:18 <shachaf> I find most philosophers very grating.
10:15:02 <shachaf> I mean writings by famous philosophers, not specific humans.
10:15:56 <shachaf> I tend to like philosophy books by Raymond Smullyan, such as _The Tao is Silent_
10:16:00 <shachaf> Is that a philosophy book?
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11:23:53 <esowiki> [[Pointfree programming]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65336&oldid=57643 * B jonas * (+14) 
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12:19:46 <wob_jonas> `ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2836328/ready-set-not/
12:19:47 <HackEso> ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2836328/ready-set-not/: b_jonas
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14:23:31 <esowiki> [[Tacit programming]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65337 * A * (+35) Redirect for synonyms
14:24:05 <esowiki> [[Point-free programming]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65338 * A * (+35) Redirect for synonyms
14:29:13 <esowiki> [[Pointfree programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65339&oldid=65336 * A * (+183) Mention some tacit languages not mentioned here yet.
14:31:25 <esowiki> [[Pointfree programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65340&oldid=65339 * A * (-8) Whoops
14:51:30 <esowiki> [[Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65341&oldid=40772 * A * (+63) 
14:51:58 <esowiki> [[Advanced Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65342&oldid=54735 * A * (+76) 
14:53:01 <esowiki> [[Aeon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65343&oldid=39332 * A * (+75) 
14:54:06 <esowiki> [[Al Dente]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65344&oldid=62990 * A * (+72) 
14:55:23 <esowiki> [[Al Dente]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65345&oldid=65344 * A * (-31) Give up on categorizing
14:55:58 <esowiki> [[Big Man Computer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65346&oldid=39039 * A * (+64) 
14:57:30 <esowiki> [[Chafa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65347&oldid=36608 * A * (+63) The zalgo creates a mess
14:58:07 <esowiki> [[Got a match?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65348&oldid=63384 * A * (+45) 
14:58:36 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65349&oldid=58839 * A * (+69) 
14:59:27 <esowiki> [[The Genius from Kiev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65350&oldid=61360 * A * (+63) 
15:00:13 <esowiki> [[Brain:D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65351&oldid=58854 * A * (+76) 
15:01:35 <esowiki> [[DukkTap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65352&oldid=58864 * A * (+65) 
15:02:10 <esowiki> [[BOREDOM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65353&oldid=60546 * A * (+69) 
15:03:07 <esowiki> [[Caeos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65354&oldid=60195 * A * (+68) 
15:04:04 <esowiki> [[NEGATOR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65355&oldid=59879 * A * (+65) 
15:04:44 <esowiki> [[EZ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65356&oldid=59877 * A * (+72) 
15:05:29 <esowiki> [[ElemScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65357&oldid=59805 * A * (+88) 
15:06:00 <esowiki> [[HuffPuff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65358&oldid=59255 * A * (+76) 
15:07:17 <esowiki> [[Quite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65359&oldid=59209 * A * (+79) 
15:07:50 <esowiki> [[Ummm...]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65360&oldid=64878 * A * (+79) 
15:08:25 <esowiki> [[EZ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65361&oldid=65356 * A * (-1) 
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15:20:40 <Vorpal> Hi
15:21:47 <cpressey> Hi Vorpal 
15:21:50 <wob_jonas> hi
15:28:19 <cpressey> wob_jonas: re Lambda: The Gathering, in the concatenative thing I'm working on, I don't "apply from the left" or "apply from the right", but I do "compose before" and "compose after", so that's something I suppose
15:29:31 <wob_jonas> cpressey: yeah, but like I said, the way LTG cheats is that you get mutable variable slots into which you can store or load functions
15:48:05 <wob_jonas> "wool" vs "fleece". English is confusing.
15:58:08 <Taneb> Those... are fairly different things, right?
15:59:03 <wob_jonas> I think they both mean the material used to make textile that originates from sheep or other ungulates.
15:59:22 <Taneb> In different forms
15:59:38 <Taneb> (you can also have wool originating from certain breeds of rabbits)
15:59:39 <wob_jonas> Can you be more specific? What different forms?
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16:00:31 <wob_jonas> Ok, maybe from any mammal. As opposed to most textiles, that come from cotton, linen, hemp, various parts of other plants, plastics, or a mixture of plastic with cotton.
16:01:02 <Taneb> Wool as a material is assembled from cords of wool, whereas fleece isn't visibly
16:04:03 <wob_jonas> Taneb: do you mean to say that wool is what you get not from spinning the mammal hairs into thick strands called a yarn or thread and then knitting them into a textile, whereas fleece is the same as felt, which is what you get from just pressing all the hairs together as a flat pane without order until they stick?
16:04:21 <Taneb> Something along those lines
16:04:39 <Taneb> I don't think fleece is the same thing as felt, but it's a lot closer to felt than to wool (the material)
16:04:45 <wob_jonas> hmm
16:05:05 <Taneb> I'm specifying wool the material because wool is also what I call the hair of sheep and certain other animals
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17:38:23 <esowiki> [[Braincells]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65362 * HereToAnnoy * (+82) Created page with "'''Braincells''' is just another [[Brainfuck]] derivative by [[User:HereToAnnoy]]."
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17:47:36 <b_jonas> hi ais523
17:48:05 <ais523> hi b_jonas
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17:54:24 <esowiki> [[Braincells]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65363&oldid=65362 * HereToAnnoy * (+1154) unfinished, brb
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19:07:09 <esowiki> [[Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65364&oldid=65341 * Salpynx * (-63) Undo revision 65341 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) This is not a language.
19:23:26 <esowiki> [[Aeon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65365&oldid=65343 * Salpynx * (-23) Fix typo in category and some formatting
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19:32:16 <esowiki> [[BOREDOM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65366&oldid=65353 * Salpynx * (-23) One language category is probably enough here
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19:35:06 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65367&oldid=65349 * Salpynx * (-23) 1
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20:15:09 <tswett[m]> So, how would you build a computer out of the "Star Wars" cellular automaton?
20:15:23 <tswett[m]> It seems perfect for computing. It has stationary elements and it also has spaceships that move at the speed of light.
20:15:42 <tswett[m]> It's very easy to construct guns in Star Wars.
20:15:45 <Hooloovo0> hasn't somebody built gates for it already?
20:15:55 <tswett[m]> I dunno, I would hope so?
20:16:53 <tswett[m]> But I haven't been able to find any information about that.
20:17:27 <tswett[m]> So I decided to try to start from scratch.
20:18:33 <Hooloovo0> http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=283
20:18:45 <Hooloovo0> also http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=507
20:19:19 <tswett[m]> But so far it ain't going too hot.
20:19:36 <Hooloovo0> I think I've seen discussion about it elsewhere but that may have been a similar generations rule
20:20:54 <Hooloovo0> I'm interested in how to go from the gates to the computer
20:21:08 <tswett[m]> The simplest and most common spaceship in Star Wars is the "bullet." It's just a pair of young cells with a trail of old cells.
20:21:09 <tswett[m]> Oh shoot, lemme check that out. Thanks!
20:23:51 <tswett[m]> I already know that. :D
20:26:06 <Hooloovo0> I think it would be cool to go from verilog to logic in CGOL/star wars... it'd be cool if yosys could be hacked to do it
20:26:21 <tswett[m]> Okay, let's see. I already know that one bullet can destroy another bullet. If they hit each other at a right angle with the right timing, they'll both be destroyed.
20:26:23 <tswett[m]> That SR latch pattern also has a signal turner, as well as a duplicating signal turner.
20:26:25 <tswett[m]> It has guns, of course.
20:27:05 <Hooloovo0> I'm still reading the 507 topic
20:27:18 <tswett[m]> You're also likely to need a way to delay a signal by an odd number of time steps.
20:27:24 <tswett[m]> And... that's it, that's all you need to build a computer.
20:27:25 <Hooloovo0> someone made an AND gate
20:28:01 <tswett[m]> Signal duplication, a destructive collision gate, and arbitrary routing gets you a computer.
20:28:13 <Hooloovo0> why do you need to delay by an odd number of steps? why not just work with even periods?
20:30:20 <tswett[m]> I don't know if you need that or not.
20:30:59 <tswett[m]> But you might have a situation where, say, bullets can only interact usefully if they're of opposite phases.
20:31:40 <tswett[m]> Either you need to be able to work entirely with even-phase bullets, or you need some way to transfer information between even-phase bullets and odd-phase bullets.
20:34:56 <b_jonas> "say, bullets can only interact usefully if they're of opposite phases" => then you let a gun bullet interact with your signal, and either you get an opposite parity bullet, or you get one after you commute which way the two react
20:36:32 <b_jonas> though that could still fail if you can only swap the parity together with negating the signal
20:36:53 <b_jonas> I don't know what you can actually do easily in this cellular thingy
20:38:06 <b_jonas> I don't even know how those cellular automata work of which I wrote on the wiki
20:38:30 <b_jonas> I do know the game of life rule because I wrote a fun golf program to compute it
20:38:48 <Hooloovo0> how did you find star wars? the rule table repository?
20:39:17 <b_jonas> nah, that's reverse causation, I knew about game of life way before I started writing such esoteric programs
20:39:21 <kmc> I made a HighLife program that runs on this LED display I found at a hackerspace at MIT and reverse-engineered
20:39:34 <kmc> it's been running for 9 years now!
20:39:58 <kmc> the sign contains an embedded DOS PC and a huge custom ISA card
20:40:37 <kmc> in order to keep things interesting, it will occasionally spawn a glider at a random location and orientation
20:40:47 <kmc> this seems to create a good mix of high- and low-activity times
20:41:03 <kmc> also, the edges wrap around but reversed
20:41:28 <kmc> so e.g (0,5) is adjacent to (w-1, h-6)
20:41:41 <kmc> this creates (approximately) the geometry of a projective plane
20:42:05 <kmc> and the system doesn't lose entropy as fast as it would with empty-cell boundary conditions
20:42:38 <Hooloovo0> is it only one edge that's flipped, or is it both?
20:45:36 <kmc> both
20:45:47 <kmc> hm
20:46:27 <kmc> yeah, both. if it was one edge flipped and one wrapping w/o flip then it would be a Klein bottle
20:46:30 <kmc> which would probably also work
20:46:32 <kmc> as would a torus
20:46:36 <kmc> I just wanted to be fancy
20:46:47 <kmc> and I think I'd been playing with projective plane in fractal video feedback loops around the same time
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21:02:04 <b_jonas> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/3434/ specifically says torus, so I didn't have a choice in that, but it doesn't say that the direction of the torus has to be parallel to the cell grid, so I abuse that to make the program shorter
21:03:11 <b_jonas> I'm proud of that code
21:03:26 <kmc> haha
21:03:31 <kmc> what's the direction of the torus?
21:05:22 <b_jonas> kmc: my answer tells that explicitly
21:05:49 <b_jonas> "The game board is hard-coded to size 79x23. It is wrapped in a torus: if you leave the board on the bottom, you end up at the top; if you leave on the right side, you end up at the left side but shifted one row down."
21:05:56 <kmc> ah
21:06:13 <b_jonas> that's the easiest to implement
21:06:55 <b_jonas> the original version is a cylinder, wrapping around almost horizontally but zeroing above the top and below the bottom, variable size field
21:07:01 <b_jonas> the golf version got fixed size because it's golf
21:09:38 <Hooloovo0> I love how TI-BASIC is competitive in code golf competitions like this
21:10:24 <kmc> why is it
21:11:11 <tswett[m]> Hooloovo0: How did *I* find Star Wars? I downloaded Mirek's Cellebration way back when.
21:11:12 <Hooloovo0> mostly because all the primitives are tokens and there's a lot of built-in math operators
21:11:36 <Hooloovo0> which are almost all two bytes each
21:13:43 <kmc> oh, you're allowed to treat it as the binary representation
21:13:44 <kmc> i see
22:19:28 <salpynx> is there a way to measure entropy , or 'potential energy' in CA configurations? I just watched on of those Star Wars configurations (the one in the large bounding box) waiting for it to settle down. It did at around T=55000
22:20:03 <kmc> a perfect measure of entropy would be kolmogorov complexity, which is uncomputable
22:20:10 <kmc> i'm sure there are many heuristic measures that are useful
22:20:22 <salpynx> it felt like you should be able to make some probabilistic statements based on cell density and the kinds of patterns, obviously depending on the particular ruleset
22:20:54 <kmc> for example you could look for repeats in the history of each cell
22:21:03 <kmc> count the number of cells that haven't repeated in the past n generations
22:21:09 <kmc> or if you're doing hashlife, count whole regions
22:23:26 <shachaf> hashlife is tg
22:23:58 <salpynx> some patterns seemed to be more likely 'absorb' energy, and other to 'release' complex patterns... if regions could be classified as one or the other, and the density of the whole thing would influence the likeyhood of one region affecting the other
22:27:20 <Hooloovo0> I'm not aware of any off the top of my head, and I've trolled around conwaylife for a while
22:27:26 <Hooloovo0> err s/trolled/lurked/
22:27:55 <salpynx> Now I'm thinking about studying CA like gasses, making statements about aggregate behaviour using statistics 
22:30:33 <Hooloovo0> there has been some study of simulating gases with CA (search for HPP latice gasses, I think golly has one in its included patterns)
22:30:43 <Hooloovo0> but a lot of CA don't really act like gases at all
22:31:37 <kmc> yeah most gases don't spontaneously generate wild critters
22:31:41 <kmc> though I guess hydrogen does
22:31:48 <kmc> if you have enough mass and time and non-homogeneity
22:32:04 <b_jonas> ...
22:32:16 <Hooloovo0> lol
22:32:28 <shachaf> livin' the hash life
22:32:40 <shachaf> i didn't choose the hash life
22:33:37 <kmc> SHA-420
22:34:20 <shachaf> the 20-round version of SHA-4 should be called SHA-4/20
22:34:22 <shachaf> make it happen
22:34:55 <b_jonas> shachaf: and int-e says he didn't choose to be not swedish, and zzo38 says the letters in their name don't mean anything, but all that negativity and denial sounds supicious to me
22:35:14 <b_jonas> if you want to convince people that your nick doesn't mean something, I think the best way is to come up with an explanation of what it does mean
22:35:24 <salpynx> but putting a match to hydrogen vs. putting a match to argon ... like you can tell some CA rules will be very inert..
22:35:45 <Hooloovo0> it's actually surprisingly difficult to tell just by the rule string
22:35:56 <salpynx> Rule 0
22:36:13 <shachaf> b_jonas: Hmm? I never claimed my nick doesn't mean anything.
22:36:21 <shachaf> It's obviously the rot13 of "fun puns".
22:36:31 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, it's zzo who claimed their nick doesn't mean anything
22:36:44 <shachaf> Oh, zzo38 is also the rot13 of "fun puns".
22:36:44 <b_jonas> you just claim you didn't choose it to mean a hash thingy 
22:37:09 <shachaf> No, I was only joking about the algorithm called "hashlife".
22:37:44 <shachaf> I never said anything about my nick.
22:37:53 <b_jonas> what... you and zzo38 are _both_ the rot13 of funpuns?
22:38:32 <b_jonas> I mean, some of the hackeso commands are a bit rigged, so I could imagine if the rot13 command claimed that zzo38 was the rot13 of funpuns
22:38:35 <b_jonas> but _both_?
22:38:43 <kmc> `` echo shachaf | tr a-z n-za-m
22:38:44 <HackEso> funpuns
22:38:53 <b_jonas> ``` rot13 <<<'fun puns'
22:38:54 <HackEso> sha chaf
22:38:55 <kmc> `` echo zzo38 | tr a-z n-za-m
22:38:56 <HackEso> mmb38
22:39:08 <kmc> ``cat $(which ```)
22:39:08 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
22:39:15 <kmc> `` cat $(which ```)
22:39:15 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file
22:39:19 <kmc> `` cat $(which '```')
22:39:27 <kmc> gr
22:39:37 <shachaf> `cat bin/```
22:39:38 <HackEso> cat: 'bin/```': No such file or directory
22:39:40 <shachaf> `cat bin/``
22:39:41 <HackEso> ​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
22:39:49 <HackEso> No output.
22:40:48 <b_jonas> the first how many primes did you say? 27?
22:41:03 <b_jonas> first 27 primes, ok
22:41:03 <kmc> `factor 42069
22:41:20 <HackEso> 42069: 3 37 379
22:41:23 <kmc> `factor 42069247365
22:41:24 <HackEso> 42069247365: 3 5 2804616491
22:41:39 <salpynx> Hooloovo0: I haven't checked, but I imagine at the extremes there will be 'bad' CA rules that cannot exhibit interesting behaviour, like the trivial "all cells go to 0", and it's in some kind of balanced range where interesting interactions can take over.
22:42:33 <shachaf> is prop 13 a 'bad' CA rule
22:43:10 <shachaf> I guess "all cells go to 0" would be an even worse rule.
22:43:20 <salpynx> Studying trivially rubbish CA's is less interesting than what got me thinking about entropy in Star Wars :)
22:43:30 <Hooloovo0> right, there's been classifications of rules into categories like "dying", "exploding", "expanding" etc, and there's ways to guess what certain rule strings can do
22:43:59 <Hooloovo0> but there's a range where it's pretty unpredictable what adding one death/birth rule will do
22:45:56 <Hooloovo0> https://mathematrec.wordpress.com/2016/09/08/changing-the-rules-part-3/
23:09:38 <b_jonas> [ p:11111128263413556049728126571976941130032759962428
23:09:38 <j-bot> b_jonas: |limit error
23:09:38 <j-bot> b_jonas: |       p:1.11111e49
23:09:41 <b_jonas> [ p:11111128263413556049728126571976941130032759962428x
23:09:41 <j-bot> b_jonas: |limit error
23:09:41 <j-bot> b_jonas: |       p:11111128263413556049728126571976941130032759962428
23:09:46 <b_jonas> [ q:11111128263413556049728126571976941130032759962428x
23:09:47 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2 2 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 17 17 17 17 23 23 23 23 23
23:10:09 <b_jonas> int-e: ^ this is a simple first guess, I'm running a longer search
23:11:28 <kmc> that's a lot of numbers
23:12:15 <b_jonas> [ q:11111112020943532694674878126746501120000000000000
23:12:16 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 171193786852609
23:12:22 <b_jonas> no
23:12:23 <b_jonas> [ q:11111112020943532694674878126746501120000000000000x
23:12:24 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11
23:12:27 <b_jonas> better
23:16:43 <b_jonas> [ q:11111111900997990188240163285841258014887116800000x
23:16:44 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 5 5 5 5 5 7 7 19 19 23
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23:52:26 <b_jonas> wait, this is silly, there's a way to make this search much more efficient
23:52:44 <b_jonas> [ q:11111111239428571047989046031440000000000000000000x NB. it printed this in the meantime
23:52:45 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 11 11 11 11 13 13 19
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