< 1561854846 981465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1561855240 969251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1561855242 345752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 300020Z 09003KT 9999 FEW001 BKN022 11/11 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 25007KT < 1561855259 403258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1561855259 600172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 300020Z AUTO VRB01KT 9999 NSC 18/13 Q1020 < 1561855270 892044 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a bit humid, perhaps < 1561855291 926754 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it matters at that temperature, especially when one's inside. < 1561855443 877186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1561855444 989403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 292353Z 27010KT 10SM FEW011 BKN200 21/11 A3003 RMK AO2 SLP170 T02060111 10211 20178 58007 < 1561855475 175255 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If making a DOS program that uses EGA, it could be required that if DOSBOX is used then it must be set to EGA mode, if it uses the interrupt for vertical retrace. < 1561855527 40307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fyi, virtual swatting is positive reinforcement :P < 1561855737 192304 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think static arrays are not moved around at runtime in QuickBASIC, so maybe an interrupt routine could be stored in there (although it will be necessary to be careful to unset it when the program terminates, even in case of error, I think). < 1561855882 426725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp swat < 1561855883 301236 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bdsmreclist:* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ swatter:The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles. \ userweps:boily has the mapole, oerjan has the swatter < 1561855915 861590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it indeed doesn't feel that humid inside < 1561855965 724851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: fyi, virtual swatting is positive reinforcement :P <-- scandalous! < 1561856094 872497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A blockchain probably doesn't solve the security problems you think it solves. The security problems it solves are probably not the ones you have." - Schneier on blockchains :) < 1561856112 297584 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In February... so a while ago.) < 1561856193 405055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. blockchains are mostly used to solve marketing problems these days, not tech problems < 1561857168 51851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A heffalump or woozle / Is very / Confusil < 1561857188 380086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles obligingly
< 1561857196 897268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1561858420 871455 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1561858471 604475 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561859137 949400 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpwuvghbzavfpjty QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1561859148 672776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Applesauce 5* 10New user account < 1561859579 318130 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561859756 399946 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1561859935 570993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561860003 299082 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561862007 597119 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561862207 608685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1561862222 598437 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561863103 749157 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1561865888 108318 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1561868628 174427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How (if any) will the phase of the moon affect your height and your back pain? Is it significant or only minor? < 1561868659 362481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had some back pain recently, and today also a headache. < 1561868675 737783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The moon is currently in phase 8. There must be a connection. < 1561868755 23907 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "pom" command says: The Moon is Waning Crescent (9% of Full). I also have a calendar with the phase of the moon, too. < 1561868797 302640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it can affect gravity, I thought it might do such thing, but I don't know how much. < 1561869041 536763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phase < 1561869042 584017 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :phase? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1561869085 240679 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561869133 598133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION catched up to email
< 1561869262 218919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION skips and jumps the wiki
< 1561869290 555957 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561869330 335245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should clean up everything left after the binge. > 1561870639 85384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Don't14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63810 5* 03Cortex 5* (+564) 10Created page with "'''Don't''' was a very powerful esolang by [[|User:Cortex]] that had only three commands == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! What it did |- | H |..." < 1561873686 52478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1561878427 171432 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1561883827 66503 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561884340 246423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: excuse me but that seems suspicious < 1561884345 124230 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1561884357 326237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is right, new moon is two days from now < 1561884362 31328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, moon phases are confusing < 1561884585 160908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1561887072 584348 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1561887640 267537 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snwfwmuibobqolpo JOIN :#esoteric < 1561889552 238575 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561889593 219301 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1561889645 775259 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561889802 74221 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561889817 355593 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561890042 737854 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561893192 568936 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561900164 242294 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1561900215 296807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if the moon had any significant effect we wouldn't be allowed to use spring-based balances in trade. < 1561900279 861695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now explain tides) < 1561900282 919262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves logic.
< 1561900429 215397 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1561900460 483345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "scales" is the better word. < 1561900833 624079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about approximately 1/250000 g. < 1561900985 211334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would be if Earth and Moon stould still. Which they don't. < 1561901198 639757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is what we really experience is the difference in "pull" between the surface of the Earth and its center? That would be even smaller, 1/17M g. < 1561901242 281403 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1561901333 943459 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1561901357 275375 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1561901374 308536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll see a larger effect from climbing up a mountain. (1/3k g from climbing 1km). < 1561901463 535148 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561901704 627610 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561901705 120255 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1561902113 365037 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1561902587 90011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Moon can’t reasonably change the height of someone human enough. If it were something really small, like possibly of a white-dwarf density or more, possibly one could be near enough to experience sufficient tidal force < 1561902875 385599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’m not sure about density. All I know small enough black holes have a sufficiently small event horizon for someone to be torn apart without going under it, and size of the horizon is the lower bound to the size of surface of anything not being a black hole, so if the black hole is big enough to not pull one apart above its horizon, then anything with that mass wouldn’t be able either < 1561902960 994444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stellar-mass black holes should have a sufficient mass AFAIR, and moreso the Moon, so the Moon is an open question before we send someone there to test if they return intact < 1561902974 581526 :user24!~user24@p2E50C34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1561902976 177988 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it was already done < 1561903040 603487 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I was carried away, I was already talking about hypothetical Moon-mass object, not the real one > 1561903257 440853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Don't14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63811&oldid=63810 5* 03A 5* (+320) 10Partial < 1561903506 779433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: humans are not a rigid body > 1561903531 835060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Don't14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63812&oldid=63811 5* 03A 5* (+760) 10/* Implementation */ < 1561903605 275294 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a known phenomenon that humans are larger in the morning when they get up, and shrink over the course of the day, mostly due to compression of spinal disks, I believe.) > 1561903681 997796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Don't14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63813&oldid=63812 5* 03A 5* (+257) 10/* Implementation */ < 1561903989 573800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pom < 1561903990 181483 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Moon is Waning Crescent (6% of Full) < 1561904287 779976 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561905688 123240 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played (or considered) poker with different betting limits during different betting rounds during the same hand? < 1561905695 449714 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: don’t need to be, why < 1561905731 805718 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : (it's a known phenomenon that humans are larger in the morning when they get up, and shrink over the course of the day, mostly due to compression of spinal disks, I believe.) => yeah, I heard about the spine too < 1561905779 736169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don’t know if this can be meddled with by hanging < 1561905825 79653 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this is possibly not the right word < 1561905908 926890 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1561906344 331448 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what will be the little-endian case when encoding binary number 110, L ∘ L ∘ R or R ∘ L ∘ L? < 1561906344 454792 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :L = 2 _ 0, R = 2 0 _, L ∘ L ∘ R = 2 (2 (2 0 _) 0) 0, R ∘ L ∘ L = 2 0 (2 (2 _ 0) 0) < 1561906537 60172 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am slightly confused and maybe one should invent another pair of words like “inner-/outer-significant” or something < 1561906640 234819 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though probably they already exist, this is partially a reason behind this question > 1561906786 239615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Punctree14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63814&oldid=63808 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (-23) 10/* IO */ lessen the straps < 1561907746 554051 :user24!~user24@p2E50C34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561908083 580993 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I thought is, in a role playing game such as Dungeons&Dragons or some other system, if you have magic spells to prepare, one idea I have is random by use of cards. < 1561908157 31173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume you have fifty-two spells, and using a standard deck of fifty-two cards. Pick up five cards, and then you can discard and draw once as in video poker. The spells you have available to cast are those five cards, and the kind of poker hand you have determines how much power you have available to spend. < 1561908320 590737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, more power is achieved if you make a straight flush, but then you also have all the same suit; maybe each suit will be one of the four classical elements, so then you are fixed to one element only.) < 1561908390 462813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: "don’t need to be, why" <-- it means you can change their height by non-relativistic means. < 1561908451 957340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'd put the LSB at the outermost position < 1561908493 299513 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's the R . L . L one, I guess < 1561908512 968783 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely a couple ten g’s are harmful to human functioning regardless of is they are rigid body enough < 1561908563 955252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I follow... a rigid body wouldn't mind < 1561908605 592947 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't leave much room for life as we know it either, of course. < 1561908623 962401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was exactly about that human would do mind < 1561908711 480382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's the R . L . L one, I guess => hm, no, the outermost here is R. So L . L . R then, thanks. It seems an implementation I’m writing treats endianness as you put it here, then! < 1561911252 465325 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to get many errors in dmesg like "usb 1-3: reset high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci_hcd" and "sd 8:0:0:0: [sdb] Asking for cache data failed" (I am not even using that drive though), but now it has stopped. Why is that? < 1561911276 206065 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1561911718 982329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but only in the sense that the betting rule is that if you raise stakes and don't go all in, you have to raise stakes by at least as much as the amount by which the stakes were last raised for that hand of cards, or by the starting stake if it wasn't raised yet < 1561912002 803343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of using spread limit before the flop, and pot limit after the flop, so that you will not bet so much before the other cards are seen < 1561912039 412152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This would be for Texas Hold'em; I am not sure about Seven Card Stud) < 1561912183 166126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I manually post a message to the list displayed by the "dmesg" command? < 1561912294 624066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind I figured out how < 1561912341 763773 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also don't know why sometimes I get messages about the CDROM is not ready, even when I am not trying to use the optical drive.) < 1561914377 76840 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561914437 652426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone knows: is there a simple way to do IO with stdin/stdout in Python bytewise? < 1561914505 46656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was something like sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'foo'). < 1561914532 37752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks, I’ll look at this! < 1561914545 178878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To write or read binary data from/to the standard streams, use the underlying binary buffer object. For example, to write bytes to stdout, use sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'abc')." < 1561914548 182885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html < 1561914698 189073 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed! :) I was reading that page but hadn’t read to this point < 1561914714 882826 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you again < 1561914894 178514 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561915044 106767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned before I had ideas about how to design a better program language than C, that can use all features of LLVM, and I thought one thing (which perhaps could be implemented by the use of macros, so doesn't need to be a built-in feature, perhaps), if you define a function then you might also define what its reverse is, in case you have a macro to automatically reverse any functions already used in case one of them is an error. < 1561915383 528241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how about C++ with the usual extensions on gcc? it has destructors, and I don't think those can be put into C, simply on account that they're the one defining feature of C++, and so if you tried to put them into C, people would feel it's just a limited C++ variant < 1561915459 553646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there's rust, which also has C++-like destructors < 1561915476 67927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I intend is neither C nor C++ nor Rust though < 1561915524 151177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even C++ with gcc extensions? < 1561915531 798483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, since you can call C functions from LLVM, and export functions in LLVM to call them in C, you would be able to use C functions with it too; also you could use in combination with Swift and Haskell, since LLVM supports calling conventions for Swift and Haskell too) < 1561915603 191364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc and rust also supports calling functions with C calling conventions, which is the typical way to connect haskell and rust with other languages < 1561915631 548133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C calling conventions are basically the common conventions that a lot of different languages try to support, which I think is a good idea < 1561915641 835005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at Zig documentation, speaking of vaguely C-style languages with an LLVM-based backend. < 1561915646 801636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are sometimes difficulties with the details, but the main idea is good < 1561915671 498044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in what I am dsecribing trying to make, you would be able to use any calling convention supported by LLVM < 1561915701 842149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran gets some excemptions because of traditions, so you instead have to use the more limited fortran calling conventions from C < 1561915917 869949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not because fortran couldn't be made to call into C, but more like because few people want to write new fortran code, but some do want to call into existing fortran programs, and it's really not that hard to support calling into < 1561916082 3205 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1561916105 597321 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1561916150 405533 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM documentation does not seems to list Fortran calling conventions as far as I can tell < 1561916467 286226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, rather than requiring its own standard library, I thought that the C standard library could just be used, although it would have its own standard macro library (which is also needed to make the program portable anyways), so the only other thing to link with is the C library, and only if you use it; if you can somehow avoid it then you don't need the C library either! < 1561918361 676149 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561919117 411528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a free QuickBASIC compiler that can make real-mode DOS programs and that can use the Microsoft QuickBASIC commands such as SOUND and PLAY and POKE and so on? < 1561919630 781811 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1561920749 261338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only QuickBASIC clones I've run across have been targeting other platforms. < 1561920752 175753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want to do in Linux is to read a file from the hard drive but ignoring all information about the data stored on the hard drive that is currently cached in RAM, except possibly the partition table. How can I do this on a system that is in use? < 1561920770 642648 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that is what I have seen too, and also seems to be missing some commands < 1561920940 611470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the O_DIRECT flag (on the block device) do what you want? I'm not sure what its exact definition is, but it's at least a little along those lines. < 1561921037 619955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe, but then presumably an implementation of the file system will be needed in order to find a particular file. < 1561921145 615172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that seems inherently to be part of "ignoring all cached information", including information about where the file's data is stored. < 1561922132 627993 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that... might be difficult, since there can be a race condition with Linux modifying metadata on the same file system, and if you want to ignore everything in the RAM, you can't avoid that race condition, and may read wrong data < 1561922200 583564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, what file system? you may want to look at the sources of boot loaders, such as grub-l, grub-2, and loadlin, because they have file system access (at least read only) that may be simpler than what Linux does < 1561922211 944207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ext4 file system < 1561922285 438382 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The files I want to read are those that are not in use, and I intend to do this only for testing purposes, so such a race condition may be irrelevant < 1561922308 212696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then perhaps look at the source of grub-2, it's the only thing that can read that < 1561922314 366501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I recall < 1561922343 921948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext4 never got added to grub-l, and I think loadlin got discontinued before ext4 came around < 1561922374 369821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can also try to run another copy of Linux for this, in such a way that it has read-only access to that disk or partition < 1561922375 928510 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1561922396 170609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a virtual machine for that, or possibly user-mode linux < 1561922463 604474 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561922519 560912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1561922541 351256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think you can use the programs in the package e2fsprogs, which include fsck.ext4 and similar < 1561922558 943364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of those may have a tool to read a file, or something close < 1561922567 359815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, that the file itself is not used doesn't seem enough guarantee to me < 1561922575 332921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more the other metadata that I'm worried about < 1561922601 142754 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the file itself is used (for writing), then of course you have a race condition, you would have even if you asked the kernel to read it, that's a different problem < 1561922665 474892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the debugfs program from that package may help < 1561922670 802268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know for sure if it does, read the docs < 1561922767 908947 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, of course trying to read the file over the head of the kernel is less dangerous than trying to write it. your program could get confused and give you total nonsense, but at least it won't confuse the kernel or damage the file system < 1561922859 905101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't want to write in this way, but only to read. < 1561922875 42087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try debugfs first < 1561922916 76676 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I tried that, and it works; thank you for that suggestion. < 1561922968 168829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses read-only mode by default, so it works OK < 1561923187 76872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems nice, for a unix tool < 1561923851 25539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yay, good to know that it works < 1561923999 402393 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561926477 248453 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.231.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561926658 217833 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1561927651 17262 :lizzie!~liz@unaffiliated/lizzie QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1561927699 741580 :lizzie!~liz@meowface.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1561927723 842701 :lizzie!~liz@meowface.org NICK :Guest17850 < 1561928756 793001 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1561929005 493168 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snwfwmuibobqolpo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1561929083 671199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When copying a variable argument list in C to call a function that requires a va_list (such as vprintf), how can you add additional arguments at the beginning or end of the variable argument list? < 1561929127 762892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is there a command to do that in C? If not in C, is there a way to do that in LLVM?) < 1561929746 972593 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think there's a standard way. you might be able to fake it with libffi, provided you can figure out the number and types of arguments you have to pass through < 1561929797 16365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think generally it's just best to make all the interfaces such that you never need to rely on varargs for more than convenience, eg. you can just do multiple printfs instead of construct a vararg list for printf, or use execvp instead of execlp < 1561929858 960813 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I do when I need it at all (I don't need it often), although I just wanted to know if it is possible to do, anyways. < 1561930138 863517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the better use of vararg, the functions that use it to take a variable _number_ of arguments. there's also the more pointless use, where it's only about an optional argument or an argument of variable type, like in open, fcntl, ioctl, some more obscure linux kernel interface stuff, curl_easy_setopt < 1561930185 446787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I believe enough in static typing and avoiding stupid errors in compile time that I think it would be better if such interfaces took a union of pointers, or at least a void pointer (in the open case like ioctl) < 1561930214 170067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course admittedly some of those interfaces have the excuse that the vararg made more sense when they were invented < 1561930483 420553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For open and suchlike, I wouldn't be surprised if the (pre-prototype) history was just that they were defined with three arguments, and just called with two sometimes; with the header declaration just using an empty parameter list. < 1561930601 446239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AFAIK open, the history is that it used to have just two arguments, because if you wanted to create a file, you called creat instead. later they added an O_CREAT flag to open, so it was too late to require the third argument. < 1561930623 519046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glibc definition of open lives in the header file, and uses __builtin_va_arg_pack_len to provide an error if called with the wrong number of arguments. < 1561930625 1088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I hope there's some gcc attribute magic to give a warning if you pass the wrong type of argument to open < 1561930639 907151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it also warn if you call it with the wrong type? < 1561930662 279283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see my fancy varargs thing http://slbkbs.org/tmp/fmt.txt ? < 1561930677 155152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to use a macro to add an extra sentinel argument at the end to make it work. < 1561930697 532184 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I haven't seen it < 1561930750 586841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be possible without the sentinel argument, but I have to use a macro to pass type information as well. < 1561930927 280032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any code in the header file to guard against a wrong type for the extra parameter, but maybe there's some extra magic elsewhere. Cutting off the __USE_FILE_OFFSET64 extra complications, it looks like http://ix.io/1Nmu/c < 1561931016 420825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, AIUI, always complains if open is called with 4 or more arguments, and additionally complains about the missing mode if the flags are compile-time constant and contain O_CREAT or O_TMPFILE. < 1561931880 160039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have seen that but not how fmt.h works. < 1561931916 465307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses C11 _Generic. < 1561932395 579428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1561932606 82299 :brett-soric!~brett@ppp203-122-220-93.static.internode.on.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561934202 957401 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1561935491 191230 :brett-soric!~brett@ppp203-122-220-93.static.internode.on.net PART :#esoteric < 1561938143 31038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer