< 1561766504 991593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be convenient for bind statistics file to mention how long a period of time those statistics cover. I guess it might be the same as the process start time -- but then again, maybe not. < 1561766591 944807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which discs are better, +R or -R discs? I have -R discs, but I don't know what is better (and in what way). < 1561766649 185246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it seem that Parted Magic does not have a "umount" command, or, at least I tried it and it doesn't work. How do you unmount in Parted Magic? < 1561766774 548444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1561766843 521187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found apparently, +R and +RW discs allow resuming interrupted recordings with high accuracy. < 1561767051 125166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what I have read is that DVD+RW discs apparently have a different kind of menus than ordinary DVD menus; the VCR/DVD combo I have says it can record DVD+RW menus but does not have the ability to play back DVD+RW menus (although the recorded video can still be played back). < 1561767051 525685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: these days it no longer matters whether you use -R or +R disks. it used to matter for old drives or drivers that were somewhat buggy, but that was like a decade ago. < 1561767100 954440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1561767297 586072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, my computer is pretty old, and the DVD writer is like the most reliable piece of it < 1561767347 649595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could keep it for the new computer I'll buy because it has served me so well, but alas, I can't, because it's an ATA one, and these days motherboards only have SATA and ESATA and USB connectors < 1561767363 522673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when I buy the new computer, I'll have to buy a cheap DVD writer < 1561767443 186600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motherboard is buggy, the RAM and cpu are not powerful enough, the CPU fan is terrible < 1561767486 122897 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you get a SATA to ATA bridge? < 1561767495 445250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a USB to ATA bridge < 1561767505 277975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: probably not for as cheap as a DVD writer these days < 1561767521 203441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be fancy new technology, but now it's just commonplace, so cheap they put it everywhere < 1561767560 951995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just get an USB DVD writer < 1561767633 262643 :user24!~user24@p2E50C34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1561767986 372596 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1561768001 704248 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought there was some reason you wanted to keep this drive in particular < 1561768027 562927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just nostalgy < 1561768034 869450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the first DVD drive that worked really well, that wasn't buggy < 1561768050 187934 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days new ones work well too < 1561768081 374815 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1561768085 994289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I first got a DVD writer < 1561768087 865692 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was hot shit < 1561768096 544241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561768132 906235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you even do with a DVD writer, DVDs are so small. < 1561768185 374462 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had about 100 GB total of hard drive space and I downloaded a lot of movies / TV shows < 1561768206 893632 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not much these days < 1561768208 384521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was pretty great to get a 25 pack of DVD-R's and double that < 1561768215 733890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but every CD reader is a DVD writer now < 1561768222 940668 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :every new one that is < 1561768229 778960 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was early 00s < 1561768238 905212 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Blu-Ray disc that has a film I'd like to watch. < 1561768242 259758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have a reader. < 1561768259 539011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a present? < 1561768267 917376 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a Perl script to find approximate knapsack problem solutions so I could fit more pirated stuff onto a given number of DVDs < 1561768270 917749 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1561768292 518908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a DVD of Jim Knopf (supposedly with English subtitles) that I ordered from Germany. < 1561768303 971248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a Blu-Ray. < 1561768308 830780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find it in any other format. < 1561768337 816827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: can you find someone else who has a blu-ray reader and copy it? < 1561768345 646246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my plan. < 1561768354 749089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked several people and none of them seem to have one. < 1561768364 294678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And why would they? Optical media is passé.) < 1561768404 125264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's this photo scanning company that makes a living of reading video casettes and lots of other old kinds of media in professional quality and digitizing them < 1561768413 949916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also scanning large amounts of paper documents into usable forms < 1561768415 979023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in a big hurry to watch it. < 1561768429 162252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day someone will come along with a Blu-Ray reader. < 1561768448 755405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know a bunch of things about SAT solvers < 1561768452 36958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they tg? imo yes < 1561768479 164357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://memorescue.co.uk/ , I've no clue if they read blue-ray, but they probably do < 1561768513 703094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I payed them to scan a few of the best paper positive family photos we had, including like two dozen of my parents' wedding pics < 1561768529 432246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those ones we have multiple copies of positives, but no negatives < 1561768565 336931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other photos of which the negatives may be available somewhere in the attic, or at least so my mother claims but I don't completely trust her on that < 1561768593 833325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to send those folks my disc. < 1561768648 273687 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're headquartered here, so for me it wasn't really sending as walking into their shop < 1561768847 606540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what else is tg < 1561768851 430711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting excited about things < 1561768874 155067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what things < 1561768907 780402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever things < 1561769006 291131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an enjoyable feeling, some kind of anti-cynicism thing < 1561769662 602706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought an external USB DVD reader/writer just recently. < 1561769701 3420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01878ZQ8W/ if you want to get one someone else has. < 1561769707 264257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're all pretty much the same. < 1561769729 513827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that addressed to me? < 1561769729 968335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with two of those fancy M-DISCs. < 1561769738 792582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to b_jonas. < 1561769751 106915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : . o O ( We need a fancy Greek translation of "brainfuck" so that we can append -phobia and have some fun. ) <-- a bit of cobbling together of terms gives me encephalobinema, except βίνημα means something innocent in modern greek < 1561769753 869856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I missed those messages. < 1561769768 920457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a DVD reader/writer. I thought it could do Blu-Ray but it turned out not. < 1561769787 649778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is attested to be rude in ancient grafitti, it seems. < 1561769805 66169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about brickbrain twh < 1561769857 864697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: arseniiv already said something close to that < 1561769872 321617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1561769897 305407 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Punctree: my stack organization is awful, I was implementing it for hours and yet it’s not done < 1561769901 244048 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1561769925 674173 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I was changing implementations a couple of times < 1561769928 237798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: plinthencephalos hth < 1561769938 452772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was salpynx actually < 1561769941 455616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) < 1561769944 550820 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-06-28.html#lA < 1561769946 248230 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, trees are nice < 1561769962 94894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1561770025 245020 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: don’t confuse me with salpynx, our names have a different letter count! :D < 1561770033 761527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i was trying hard to make the bine- have a suffix to make it a proper noun, i'm not sure salpynx did that. < 1561770033 815849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay bye < 1561770054 815618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proper as in appropriate) < 1561770089 618476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I miss all the fun again < 1561770097 26106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bineo is a verb, which would seem awkward as i don't think greek confuses nouns and verbs like english do. < 1561770149 55499 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you need a translation that's less literal? < 1561770175 453117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have this DVD drive: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Portable-External-SE-218CB-RSBS/dp/B00DBV28TG < 1561770188 892101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no special comments on it. It seems to work. < 1561770238 209363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i need a translation that is grammatically correct *twitch* < 1561770246 6841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? manglophobia < 1561770248 594091 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. < 1561770259 280728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1561770283 994219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see why it has to be greek anyway < 1561770290 240472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg manglophobia < 1561770291 868580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9652:2016-11-09 learn Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. < 1561770293 814211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i don't know ancient greek enough to be _sure_ i got the compounding right. < 1561770303 73517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so it fits with -phobia < 1561770318 461017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: use some other word instead of phobia < 1561770321 942794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "fear" or something < 1561770368 538821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's supposed to be a medical term and english pretty much _never_ uses germanic stems for those (unless it's an old disease name) < 1561770376 596065 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1561770385 230544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could be latin then? < 1561770389 100605 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1561770391 585634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it a medical term anyway < 1561770403 966097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's a joke medical term. < 1561770406 594053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it like an esolang term < 1561770427 402012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fear of brainfuck", if it were a recognized disease < 1561770459 100001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1561770472 379856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you use "P'" instead of "brainfuck"? maybe it's easier to translate < 1561770501 973975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, it's called P'' < 1561770505 706522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/P%E2%80%B2%E2%80%B2 < 1561770547 120362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i took the point of this exercise to be finding out what it would be called if someone invented a "greek" medical term for it. < 1561770652 870721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :P'' seems to consist entirely of characters that are not greek tdnh < 1561770658 449346 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561770753 75052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if we go with -binema, the -ma needs to grow a -t- in compounds so it would be encephalobinematophobia. just rolls off the tongue. < 1561770865 768066 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561771012 561076 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1561771514 566664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: Nothing wrong with multiplying a weight by a height. If you divide by a Times Square, you get a new ton. <-- *SWAT* -----### < 1561771823 839429 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561771927 99397 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561771927 229449 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1561773951 55293 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbkivqjmnrvmmnjr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1561775439 995876 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:6925:2439:dc2b:a7ba QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1561779097 219888 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.156.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561779902 960890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come i never get swatted < 1561781603 901649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you only make fun puns and not horrible ones hth < 1561783314 565454 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561783853 384506 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was deliberately keeping to the verb form because I couldn't think of a noun formed from a thematic verb, other than a participle, which seemed wrong. < 1561783867 198947 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of bf as claiming to be 'encephalobinetic', (cf εμεω and emetic) and phobias seem to apply generally to 'that sort of thing' < 1561783911 760350 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should have suggested 'encephalobinetophobia' < 1561784006 218470 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about βινημα. εμεω (now that I've looked) has εμετος (m) as a noun for sickness or vomiting < 1561784289 703524 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :miso- is the prefix for hate, and when combined with a vowel becomes misenecephalo-. The mis- for doing it badly is Germanic I believe, so wouldn't be attached to Greek roots. The -ea I added in misencephalobinea was euphonic and I didn't think about it too much. < 1561784558 147792 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You mentioned 𝒫 ″ earlier, I thought of suggesting that to you as a way to avoid bf with your Consumer Society application. Is that still too close? < 1561784721 451947 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used 𝒫 ″ for a TC proof in a Gödel numbering language (based on Lenguage) I'm working on to cheekily avoid referencing bf. < 1561784866 317449 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like using bf for Gödel numbering because it is so convenient. Recent discussions have got me thinking of using Iota -> Jot -> Zot to create a Brainfoctal like system for working with Gödel numbering and avoid the bf cliche. < 1561785824 137539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my google search also threw up βῖνος (both in https://lsj.gr/wiki/coito ) < 1561785838 147835 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aristophanes uses βινειν in a coarse sense which seems like the best translation. I can't find βινημα anywhere that isn't the result of bad OCR for πινημα or something else < 1561785876 621610 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, good link, thanks < 1561786145 288672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've obviously studied greek more than me, anyway < 1561786313 125453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just looking stuff up in wiktionary and analogizing the transformation ἀθλέω → ἄθλημα to βινέω < 1561786367 267329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then found some hit. although googling again now i cannot find the grafitti mention i saw earlier < 1561786434 372338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's on the same site i linked, when clicking on the word < 1561786630 64924 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source for the βινημα and βινος seems to be a Spanish dictionary, my vocab comes from LSJ (English) lexicon. I'll dig a bit more to see if I can find the sources < 1561786643 186910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is everything terrible if you want to be a cheapskate? I've been looking for a free secondary DNS provider (after the current one went paid), and they're all broken. < 1561786672 382265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, he.net says "validation successful" but just doesn't load (forum chatter suggests because they find current DNSSEC algorithm types invalid), ClouDNS weirdly makes secondary/slave DNS a paid feature, DNS4.pro just says "Registration closed" on the sign-up form, BuddyNS has a too low limit of 300k requests/month, 1984hosting says absolutely nowhere what to whitelist for zone transfers. < 1561786679 204907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And pretty much all these problems are discoverable only after making an account.) < 1561786718 861462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use the esolangs.org server as a secondary, but that'd only work for esolangs.org, I don't feel right using it for any other because it's kind of a charity thing. < 1561787026 668888 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, here's a paper that explicitly remarks that LSJ is not a good source for words like that. Use a continental dictionary, not an English one https://www.jstor.org/stable/639023 > 1561787065 247117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOBELA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63792&oldid=32434 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+132) 10/* Implementations */ < 1561788062 912018 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a first C graffito from Stabia, "... to obtain a βεινημα". This is the first and only occurrence of the nomen actionis derived from βινω." according to that paper I linked to above (p.59). < 1561788119 91909 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning a lot, mainly about how inadequate my beloved LSJ is > 1561788367 739247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOBELA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63793&oldid=63792 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+4153) 10/* Hello! */ < 1561788588 734849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1561788695 866029 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`𝒫 ″ < 1561788696 571818 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 𝒫: not found < 1561789619 85278 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𝒫 ″ < 1561789619 913965 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1D4AB MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL P] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+2033 DOUBLE PRIME] < 1561789841 718909 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my attempt at the name of C. Böhm's language. The script capital P is a slightly different form in the original paper (which I cannot find a digital readable version of anywhere, because information isn't free yet), but someone has scanned the characters and made that available. < 1561790023 508361 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone here worked with Iota / Jot / Zot? There doesn < 1561790057 419777 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t seem to be even a basic Hello World. > 1561790299 438981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63794&oldid=46289 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+23) 10/* External resources */ archived resource > 1561790518 402144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63795&oldid=51795 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ archived resource > 1561790747 827892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63796&oldid=63795 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+35) 10reference Iota > 1561791017 822169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63797&oldid=63796 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-35) 10/* External resources */ turns out the creator still has a current site. > 1561791109 548898 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63798&oldid=63794 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-36) 10direct link to current site > 1561791183 198074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chris Barker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63799&oldid=31885 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+3) 10/* External resources */ update personal website > 1561791371 85000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Iota14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63800&oldid=63601 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+34) 10/* External resources */ more relevant tutorial > 1561791622 982868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOBELA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63801&oldid=63793 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+0) 10Old code mixed the rule and reflections from walls, which made it obscure. New code shows the rule more purely. > 1561792032 419121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOBELA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63802&oldid=63801 5* 03Stasoid 5* (-939) 10/* Hello! */ < 1561792240 220107 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1561795824 915461 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.156.180 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1561799810 647835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1561801778 139801 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host < 1561801778 139875 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1561801968 749463 :^!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :uplime < 1561802119 882182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: doesn't matter now, because I have invented Consumer Society already, and it would do no good to uninvent it. I was thinking of brainfuck as an example back when I first thought of that syntax trick. < 1561802592 402457 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1561802944 413922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this channel is weird < 1561803336 391649 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1561804852 638129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63803&oldid=63776 5* 03A 5* (+501) 10/* Write some nonsense here */ < 1561805092 425096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561805836 969505 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, I thought you were holding back from publishing Consumer Society because some parts weren't polished, and choosing bf or something else was part of that. < 1561805870 438809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: oh, some parts aren't polished, that's true, but it doesn't have much to do with bf < 1561806023 207710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to write example program, factor parts of it to a reusable library, then write a reference interpreter, and write detailed documentation < 1561806081 268255 :user24!~user24@p2E50C34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1561807468 573137 :JonoCode9374!7811a0d5@120.17.160.213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561807771 566483 :JonoCode9374!7811a0d5@120.17.160.213 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1561807976 302310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sign14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63804 5* 03A 5* (+2875) 10The reason FORTRAN has a three-way branch IF (ABC) 1,2,3 is because the machine had a three-way branch, and that way they could generate that in a single instruction. > 1561808137 901874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sign14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63805&oldid=63804 5* 03A 5* (-316) 10 > 1561808183 813061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sign14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63806&oldid=63805 5* 03A 5* (-182) 10/* Syntax */ Uhh... < 1561808676 566860 :Jonocode9374!781138f0@120.17.56.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561808724 891030 :Jonocode9374!781138f0@120.17.56.240 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1561811348 568946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujxrimhvkkiqbryv JOIN :#esoteric < 1561811629 289957 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1561813230 536098 :user24!~user24@p2E50C34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1561815058 907159 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1561815201 378957 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1561815214 455815 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1561816375 706595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561818888 87420 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1561819631 841344 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561820669 144377 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujxrimhvkkiqbryv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1561820892 241988 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1561821225 229837 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1561821232 951862 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxedwleqsgjhqzri JOIN :#esoteric < 1561824136 285954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't understand that description. what is the < instruction supposed to do in punctree? < 1561824383 604369 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there are three constructions of a tree′: as _, as 2 tree′ tree and as 2 tree tree′, so < filters out the second (and accidently the first too, but it can be remedied by equality testing beforehand). In other words, if the hole is somewhere in the left branch, it returns the argument intact, and if it isn’t, it returns _ < 1561824545 989990 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a computer game on this computer titled "Bugs In Space", but the title doesn't seems to make so much sense. The documentation says it is a text-adventure game, like Rogue or Hack. However, it isn't a text-adventure game, and it isn't a roguelike game either. And, the playfield memory is stored in the visible part of video memory. > 1561824573 563011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Punctree14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63807&oldid=63755 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+102) 10clarify < < 1561824641 301801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: more mundanely, < checks whether the hole is to the left or to the right < 1561824659 591120 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_ being the hole) < 1561824678 608844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in still other words, it filters “zipper-ready” values < 1561824738 762016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description for an extra life is "Strong You, can't move (keep track of lives)", and the description for a food is "Food, 1 food point", although there are no "food points"; collecting it does nothing except remove the food from the screen (so that objects other than the player can now pass). < 1561824965 741125 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a strange game :D seems unfinished < 1561825041 750775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see! it checks which side of the root the hole is < 1561825047 494534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1561825062 54131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the choice of output looks a bit strange < 1561825222 851516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will you be implementing this language? with the zippers implemented as the tree being sliced all through the path from the root to the hole, and each level hanging off that stored in a banker queue, together with directions for which way the path turns, or something? < 1561827093 923830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1561827094 102958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 291620Z AUTO 15011KT 9999 NCD 32/12 Q1012 < 1561827562 632464 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, exactly my implementation < 1561827731 318254 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had written all ideal stuff like trees, though that’s all untested, and now I’ve yet to complete it with mundane things like IO and that stack. I was foolish to suggest treating bars as other values in the stack, it makes so much hassle < 1561827874 463806 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll writing it all currently in Jupyter and maybe then it will go into some Python module < 1561827890 503036 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I’ll/I’m < 1561828794 222803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: and then you'll be debugging it for about as long as implementing it took for the first place < 1561828813 842108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to read the docs to figure out how those stack operations with the bars work < 1561829031 649632 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah I was noticing several subtle bugs which would be a pain if left as is, by pure chance < 1561829151 524200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still some things I don't understand in this description < 1561829202 961629 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ^ / \ operations, how do they represent the pair of the tree and the holey tree? do they store them as the two top elements of the stack? < 1561829230 928739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are the elements of the stack supposed to be such pairs? < 1561829558 837670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't understand how the ? command is supposed to work. what's on the stack when you run the code blocks, and what happens with what they leave on the stack? < 1561829589 215279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just pop all three blocks at the start? < 1561830388 631150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some "ext4_mb_generate_buddy" errors on my computer. As far as I can tell, no data is lost. Is it anything serious? < 1561830607 268994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is it possible to make it to store file access times in RAM but not to write them to disk (in order to reduce disk I/O)? < 1561831258 878241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are there checksums for files in ext4? < 1561833542 802262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many different ranks of poker hands are there if you split each rank into its subranks? For example, I think there are ten subranks of a straight flush (from ace low to a royal flush) < 1561833575 966963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and including everything lower than a pair, too) < 1561833671 874054 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1561833689 755292 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 10 subranks of a regular straight as well < 1561833723 772014 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561833748 83595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1561833778 471058 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1561833793 903233 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :13*12 = 156 ranks of four-of-a-kind? < 1561833807 766726 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I thought, too. < 1561833897 111929 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the fifth card is actually irrelevant? because you can't have two hands which each have the same 4-of-a-kind < 1561833904 21130 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you can in games like hold 'em where some cards are shared < 1561833950 698102 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :full house would be 13*12 as well < 1561834003 141321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, sometimes there are shared cards, or maybe each player draws from a separate deck (not used in any form of poker I know, but potentially possible) < 1561834147 790465 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561834172 666311 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561834271 313689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Texas Hold'em no more than one player can have a royal flush unless everyone has a royal flush (if there are three players, it is not possible for only two players to have a royal flush), but you can have two players with the same four matching cards for four of a kind but one player might have a higher fifth card. < 1561834578 237985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't have six players have three or four of a kind in six different ranks, so how do you count the different fours of a kind and threes of a kind possible? I don't even understand what the question is supposed to be < 1561834677 198548 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think in some variants of poker, there are rules where if two players have hands that are close but not identical, they split the stakes of that round rather than determining which hand is better < 1561834713 46858 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the purpose of my question, assume there are an unlimited number of players and that each player draws from a separate deck (of 52 cards only; no jokers) and that standard ranking is in use. < 1561834756 904070 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You will not necessarily actually do this; it is just one way in which the conditions I intend of the question are in use.) < 1561834818 105028 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that case is the answer just the number of different hands possible, binomial(52,5)? < 1561834867 748103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 2598960 < 1561834944 309588 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, since some hands are tied with each other, such as the four royal flushes all tie with each other, and broadways tie with each other, and so on. < 1561834957 247703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1561835345 604258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what is the rule in Texas Hold'em if there are three players, each bets 111 and then one player folds, so now the pot has 333, and then the two remaining players tie, what happens? < 1561835548 282535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I'd presume both of those players would get half of the stakes, which is 166.5 < 1561835669 209102 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxedwleqsgjhqzri QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1561835686 688024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if the points are required to be integers? (Sometimes they must be a multiple of a larger number, but that is not relevant for freezeouts, in which you can just call the smallest unit 1) < 1561835749 833062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think they are required to be integers. stakes and raises are required to be multiples of the starting stake for the round, but the fractions still matter when someone goes all in, which they can do even if their remaining money isn't a multiple of what they're required to be < 1561835767 462172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other players can also hold the same amount if someone goes all in, provided they have the money < 1561835793 672872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you insist on integers, then I suggest you carry the remainder to the stake of the next round < 1561835829 258884 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although you can't split the chips into units smaller than the smallest units; if you are betting cash, then you can't split the cash smaller than one cent < 1561835941 822782 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was my idea too though, to carry any remainder to the next round < 1561837084 860838 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1561837211 638785 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-csjlkhtokspnlpgs JOIN :#esoteric < 1561837652 268078 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1561838650 701775 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : the ^ / \ operations, how do they represent the pair of the tree and the holey tree? do they store them as the two top elements of the stack? => ah, no, no. Earlier int-e asked about the same thing; I reprezent a zipper (t′ t) as a holey tree 2 t′ t, it’s a nice opportunity, it’s naturally a pair < 1561838749 226047 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you just pop all three blocks at the start? => yeah. I’ll add a comment that all command arguments are popped before it’s executed < 1561838835 76483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, when a block is runned, the stack is as it was before, but the evaluation of commands from the previous code is suspended while the block runs, then the stack again is not perturbed in any way and the previous code resumes to run < 1561838863 674732 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FALSE treats these blocks analogously, and some Forth variants which have them, too > 1561839071 474273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Punctree14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63808&oldid=63807 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+376) 10/* Syntax */ clarify < 1561839307 218166 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, both evaluation of blocks and evaluation of control-flow commands (all are popped beforehand) < 1561839350 558526 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I would cheat and wouldn’t convert code to trees (or back) if there is no necessity < 1561839390 333451 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it would give us a language with two data types and an implicit conversion, but… well… < 1561839428 798786 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :let’s treat as a secret interpreter optimization < 1561839775 966453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :document the pair thing too < 1561841171 302848 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s already elaborated after yesterday’s int-e question :) < 1561841182 879681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it too obscure still?.. < 1561842471 241153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1561842688 823814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Rook14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63809&oldid=63784 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+135) 10 < 1561843068 886472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Microsoft QuickBASIC compiler does not have very well optimization; for example, it reloads the segment register for each PEEK and POKE, even though it should not have to do that. < 1561843126 513335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, let me look < 1561843158 959721 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1561843217 436326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well... it might be better if it mentioned that at the list of statements, but whatever < 1561843250 411271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also clears the high half of the register when doing PEEK even in cases where the high half isn't used anyways.) < 1561843269 695141 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but it has functions to call into machine language routines, so you can just use those for the most important inner loops if you want < 1561843306 847254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VARPTR and VARSEG functions to get the address of variables, and a documented representation for strings, so you can bridge the basic data with the machine language data < 1561843359 688490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although on the DOS computer I do not have any other compiler that I can use with it, and do not know the file format for the files to do it by myself either. < 1561843372 240225 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.246.108.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1561843390 128897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the end, it's supposed to be a simple language for what then counted as high-level graphical programs, which is why it has some fancy graphical builtins, but not a very good high-performance programming language < 1561843391 646282 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know of VARPTR and VARSEG, and the string representation. < 1561843466 448092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you mean? there are native pascal and C compilers on DOS. they also don't optimize very well, but the C compilers are at least better then BASIC, and come with fewer overhead because they're careful with what they link in, < 1561843473 343911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they too can interface easily with machine language code < 1561843497 21787 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I have also used VARPTR$ to compare by-reference arguments) < 1561843529 304335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: But I do not have any of those, nor the assembler that can be linked with BASIC codes in this way. < 1561843586 684737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The BASIC compiler can output a assembly code dump, and some optimizations can be done using that, in case I will make my own optimizer for it, but I don't know how to compile the result into a .OBJ file) < 1561843638 134315 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you don't have a compiler, you may have to get one from the internet. it's pretty hard to buy them now. < 1561843653 740041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :termbot had those compilers < 1561843661 667421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an assembler too < 1561843673 973521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the assembler comes with the compiler < 1561843751 455444 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have a assembler and learn enough about the x86 code then I could use that. < 1561843840 164056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how can I do more precise timing in QuickBASIC? I have used SOUND for timing, but if you are using other sounds already then that won't work. < 1561843847 74572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for learning about the PC and DOS environment and x86, a good book is the one linked at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Y86#References < 1561843888 842830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has builtins for more precise timing. you might need to call machine code subroutines for that. < 1561844008 101647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What machine code subroutines, though? Using PEEK to read the system timer counter is not more precise than TIMER. < 1561844069 242921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, for that you'd have to read about the hardware stuff from that book or other books < 1561844126 268523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately I have a book describing the PC hardware < 1561844916 800242 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reprogramming the system timer might do butwould cause other problems, probably. < 1561845024 70266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can try using the video card, it has a timer to advance between scanlines < 1561845209 262762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the number of frames be counted? Also, will this work on DOSBOX as well? < 1561845230 130108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1561845238 330524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it counts frames < 1561845666 864413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how portable it is, but on some circumstances you might be able to use channel 1 of the PIT, without affecting the other uses (system timer interrupt generation, PC speaker). < 1561845682 215502 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1561845713 699008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the more modern HPET. < 1561845814 660293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on modern hardware (Pentium and later) there's always the TSC. < 1561845832 520908 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can use RDTSC[P] from real mode. < 1561845910 252135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manual sort of implies that probably. < 1561845936 829112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When in protected or virtual 8086 mode, the time stamp disable (TSD) flag in register CR4 restricts the use of the RDTSC instruction as follows." < 1561845976 866573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you could read to mean otherwise it's not restricted. < 1561846024 188067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for RDTSCP it even explicitly says that. "When in real-address mode, the RDTSCP instruction is always enabled." < 1561846272 967666 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1561846286 457680 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1561846403 559683 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to do the timing with the video card? < 1561846530 852750 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98455.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1561846532 570044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: read which scan line it is in using its IO register interface, that way you can track time as long as you read at least once per frame < 1561846556 175881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exposed so that you can update during vertical retrace < 1561846904 413908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also an interrupt you can enable at the start of the vertical retrace, which is apparently something introduced in EGA, supported on VGA but not properly working in DOSBox or included in many of the VGA programming references available on the interwebs. < 1561846914 276297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so says http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?62049-The-myth-of-the-vertical-retrace-interrupt-on-EGA-VGA < 1561846955 734665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will want to ensure that the program will work properly on DOSBOX, so, maybe it won't do. < 1561847602 58872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Poking at the DOSBox source, looks like it indeed only triggers the IRQ if the machine is set to EGA mode. And I don't know where in VGA registers the scan line is exposed. (There's a "vertical retrace is on" bit in the Input Status #1 Register, but that's just that bit. < 1561847653 713404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In case it helps, http://www.osdever.net/FreeVGA/home.htm is what I've always used to look up VGA programming materials.) < 1561847669 237528 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-csjlkhtokspnlpgs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1561847683 135160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm can the 8253 counter be read? That would give a 1.2 MHz resolution. < 1561847762 102586 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, doesn't the CGA expose a counter that has a longer cycle than one frame (or two frame for interlaced)? It must have some such timer internally for blinking the cursor < 1561847831 499107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently so: https://wiki.osdev.org/Programmable_Interval_Timer#Reading_The_Current_Count < 1561847911 180277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. You'd have to read it at least as often as the channel's counter is reset, though. < 1561847990 160273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this is the same chip that's driving the 18.2Hz timer interrupt which already increments a counter. < 1561848432 346358 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would still be messy to use. You can't just read the global timer counter and the current PIT counter; you also have to figure out whether there was an interrupt inbetween these two operations.) < 1561848512 324830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: or just disable interrupts between the two reads, because that's simpler < 1561848550 962735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1561848564 196872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the question is whether the PIT internal counter overflowed or not. < 1561848571 907162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-84.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1561848623 482637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if using the SOUND command was an option, so's probably busy-looping and looking at the counter often enough. < 1561850160 776735 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpwuvghbzavfpjty JOIN :#esoteric