00:09:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:13:19 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to tibdit. 00:17:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:50 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 00:30:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:32:12 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 00:53:35 -!- Essadon has quit (Quit: Qutting). 01:13:33 orin: c strings are kind of scow, don't you think 01:15:54 -!- Remavas has joined. 01:17:32 very 01:17:35 also hi shachaf 01:18:42 higan mchelloister 01:19:28 yep 01:22:58 shachaf: well yeah 01:23:29 shachaf: I forget how fortran handles strings 01:23:47 shachaf: but i vaguly recall them being better 01:24:29 does fortran even have strings? 01:26:07 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:26:24 ais523: yes 01:27:43 From what I recall, it's usually fixed-maximum-length things. 01:27:43 ais523: they are bounds checked 01:27:48 [[Talk:Interfrac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60364&oldid=60356 * Ais523 * (+677) mention our computational class conclusions 01:28:30 now I'm wondering if COBOL has strings 01:28:40 presumably it does for things like employee names 01:29:05 COBOL is basically SQL except it's trying to be a complete programming language and isn't as declarative 01:31:02 Pascal strings are the famous kind, with a prefix byte for length. 01:31:46 I think later that's called a ShortString. 01:32:29 I think ideal prefix size is a 24 bit integer 01:32:50 too bad modern processors don't have support for those 01:33:29 what's the correct alignment for one of those, anyway? first byte falls on a 32-byte boundary? 01:33:58 I mean, 24 bits = 3 bytes 01:33:58 if so, it's one of the best arguments for little-endian storage that I've heard (as that would then let you do all computations on 24-bit integers, other than writing them to memory, using 32-bit primitives) 01:34:17 allegedly some C compilers use the name "short long int" for a 24-bit integer 01:34:38 well i mean on a 6502, you do any length integer by using ADC 01:34:47 6502 is an 8-bit processor 01:34:51 x86 has adc too, I think 01:35:02 Well, who would know. 01:35:04 although it's rarely used because normally your integers aren't large enough to need to split them up over separate instructions 01:35:08 The manual is fcking huge 01:35:25 RISC ftw 01:36:03 if x86 has adc then that is the best way to do bigint 01:36:19 C strings are used even in stuff other than C 01:36:24 Incidentally, recently came across a blog post that had some microbenchmarks suggesting on recent x86-64 processors (let's say anything Sandy Bridge onwards), unaligned memory access no longer has a performance penalty. 01:36:57 At least for sequential access. 01:37:08 Does x86-64 have fast endianness conversion? (What I know is that MMIX does, but I don't know if x86 does.) 01:37:22 (For random access, presumably it still makes it more likely to straddle two cache lines.) 01:37:28 (I also don't know if RISC-V has) 01:37:41 wow x86-64 DOES havs an adc instruction 01:37:50 (I guess that's technically "infinitely more likely", since aligned access never will.) 01:37:53 Of course it has an adc. 01:37:59 ADC r64, r/m64 01:38:03 `` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' 01:38:07 f: \ pushq%rbp \ movq%rsp, %rbp \ pushq%rbx \ movq%rdi, %rax \ movq%rsi, %r8 \ movq%rax, %rsi \ movq%rdx, %rdi \ movq%r8, %rdi \ movq%rsi, -32(%rbp) \ movq%rdi, -24(%rbp) \ movq%rdx, -48(%rbp) \ movq%rcx, -40(%rbp) \ movq-32(%rbp), %rcx \ movq-24(%rbp), %rbx \ movq-48(%rbp), %rax \ movq-40(%rbp), %rdx \ addq%rcx, %rax \ adcq%rbx, %rdx \ popq%rbx \ popq%rbp \ ret 01:38:32 nicet 01:38:34 compilers even generate it 01:38:42 (although all the spilling going on there is /really/ suspicious) 01:38:45 Come on, stick some optimization flags in there. 01:38:48 oh, I forgot to use optimization flags 01:39:02 `` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' 01:39:03 f: \ movq%rdi, %r9 \ movq%rsi, %r10 \ addq%rdx, %r9 \ adcq%rcx, %r10 \ movq%r9, %rax \ movq%r10, %rdx \ ret 01:39:07 that's better 01:39:27 It would be even better if this IRC client formatted it without inverse-I tabs. 01:39:50 `` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' | perl -pe 's/\s+/ /g' 01:39:51 f: movq %rdi, %r9 movq %rsi, %r10 addq %rdx, %r9 adcq %rcx, %r10 movq %r9, %rax movq %r10, %rdx ret 01:40:06 surely it's possible in five? 01:40:20 actually, no, I see 01:40:39 %rdx is the LSD of the input, but the MSD of the output 01:40:46 so you do need six instructions 01:41:06 presumably gcc is using %r9 and %r10 as temporaries because they're caller-saved 01:42:14 By the way, GCC accepts - for /dev/std{in,out}. 01:42:31 oh, clang can do it in four 01:42:38 by overwriting the input arguments, I should have thought of that 01:43:09 `` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | clang -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' 01:43:10 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: clang: command not found 01:43:22 Haven't installed it there. 01:43:34 `cat bin/` 01:43:35 ​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooodl 01:43:39 (Clang is okay with dashes as well.) 01:43:42 `cat bin/`` 01:43:43 ​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl 01:44:04 Those are nicely divergent. 01:44:12 what does rnooodl do, anyway 01:44:29 `` echo "noodl" 01:44:30 noodl 01:44:32 `` echo "noodl" 01:44:32 noodl 01:44:36 `` echo "nooooodl" 01:44:37 nooooodl 01:44:39 Randomizes the number of "o"s in that nick, I think? 01:44:41 Something silly like that. 01:44:43 `` echo "nooo0oodl" 01:44:44 nooo0oodl 01:44:51 `` echo "nooodl" 01:44:52 nooooooooodl 01:44:55 `` echo "nooodl" 01:44:56 noooooooodl 01:45:00 yeah 01:45:37 so the fundamental difference is that ``` uses a subshell, `` uses an eval 01:45:59 I'm not sure offhand why this difference would matter, though 01:46:10 ais523: There is a few other difference too, such as ``` specifying the C locale, and `` specifying a different timer format 01:46:19 yes, but those aren't fundamental 01:46:30 `` echo $LANG 01:46:31 en_NZ.UTF-8 01:46:40 (I put in ``` (without rnooodl) in order that it would set the C locale.) 01:46:42 -!- Remavas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:46:47 ah, I see 01:47:15 en_NZ.UTF-8 is an oddly specific choice. 01:47:26 I think it was there to serve as a talking point? 01:47:28 As with everything on that bot, it's a kind of joke. 01:47:42 I've propagated it forward from Gregor. 01:47:45 Okay granted, it _is_ HackEgo. 01:47:57 how many strings even differ in en_NZ? 01:48:18 the vast majority of packages that even bother to give different spellings for English variants tend to concentrate on en_US and en_GB 01:48:26 `` time 01:48:27 real: 0m0.001s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s 01:48:33 `` date 01:48:34 Sun Mar 10 01:48:34 UTC 2019 01:48:41 ``` time sleep 1 01:48:43 ​ \ real0m1.027s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.020s 01:49:04 `` time sleep 10 01:49:27 I'd expect 99% of the time it's just falling back to C. 01:49:40 no, it'll fall back within the en family 01:49:47 LANG=C has some very distinctive messages 01:49:50 I think the TIMEFORMAT is there to avoid hard tabs in the output. 01:49:59 `` ls /nonexistent 01:50:00 ls: cannot access '/nonexistent': No such file or directory 01:50:04 ``` ls /nonexistent 01:50:09 ls: cannot access '/nonexistent': No such file or directory 01:50:14 real: 1m8.856s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.020s 01:50:30 Oh, is glibc doing silly things with its C locale messages? 01:50:30 That's an odd result from sleep 10. 01:50:32 hmm, LANG=C has become more verbose since last time I looked 01:50:35 fizzie: indeed 01:50:46 would't it be better to just have an filter that tgranslates all tabs to something 01:51:01 you could translate them to → 01:51:03 There's no particular reason to have its strings distinct from en_US -- the specific contents of the strings in the C locale aren't specified. 01:51:24 ␉ 01:52:02 the unicode control char symbols are 01:52:03 The number formatting is specified, some details of its charset are specified, etc. but the strings are not. 01:52:07 ␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏ 01:52:07 ␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟ 01:52:25 we could have a filter that does all of them 01:52:32 Heck, it'd be valid (if silly) for the errno strings to just be the errno macro. 01:52:46 I'm well aware of the Unicode control char symbols, I've written enough programs with nonprintables in on PPCG 01:53:00 But using en_US is probably the saner choice. 01:53:14 pikhq: ideally they should be specified, the main purpose of the C locale should be to be machine-readable 01:53:25 (as humans will prefer a different locale for human-readable messages, but machines like consistency) 01:53:39 Maybe, but POSIX underspecifies a lot of things. 01:54:05 even "error 2" would be more useful than just stealing a message from English 01:54:51 -!- Remavas has joined. 01:55:07 Like how cal(1) has to handle the switch from Julian to Gregorian happening in 1752, but doesn't bother even saying _what the output should look like_. 01:55:16 the tab sybol on keyboards is ↹ 01:55:38 vertical tab is ⭿ 01:55:46 #ais523: Pidgin has en_NZ specific messages on my system, though looks like the only thing in there is "Authorize" → "Authorise". 01:55:56 (Where did that # come from?) 01:56:08 #hashtag #ais523 01:56:38 ais523: Shit, POSIX doesn't even make real requirements about what error messages should be output by utilities at all. 01:57:30 I do not think ls is actually required to output a message when it errors out. 01:57:57 Oh, wait: "If the file specified is not found, a diagnostic message shall be output on standard error." 01:58:01 It does have to output an error. 01:58:17 Past that though, nah. 01:59:29 And there's also en_NZ/LC_MESSAGES/avahi.mo, where the changes are "Initializing..." → "Initialising..." and "Canceled." → "Cancelled." 01:59:52 `` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <$'\n\t\b\r\e' 01:59:52 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: \ 02:00:11 I wonder if NZ users actually set LANGUAGE=en_NZ:en_GB:en. 02:00:23 Does that even work? 02:00:37 `` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<$'\n\t\b\r\e' 02:00:38 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: warning: here-document at line 5 delimited by end-of-file (wanted ` \ 02:00:44 For GNU gettext and LANGUAGE, I think it should. 02:00:44 Oh, yes, it does. 02:00:45 `` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' 02:00:45 ​ₐ 02:00:51 crap 02:00:59 It's only the LANG and LC_* environment variables that don't do that sort of thing. 02:00:59 LANGUAGE is a GNU gettext thing, not a C locale thing. Okay. 02:01:19 * pikhq wonders if musl gettext handles that case 02:01:37 Might be other tools than just gettext that also respect it. 02:01:40 where did that a come from 02:03:14 `` perl -mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' 02:03:15 ​ₐ 02:03:23 damn 02:03:48 `` perl -Mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' 02:03:49 Wide character in print at -e line 1, <> line 1. \ Wide character in print at -e line 1, <> line 2. \ ␊␉␈␍␛␊ 02:03:56 great 02:07:07 You're probably looking for the -C7 option. But it doesn't work with that either, for some reason. 02:07:28 `` perl -CS -Mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' 02:07:28 fizzie: apparently "#ais523" pings me 02:07:29 ​␊␉␈␍␛␊ 02:07:33 there 02:07:45 although that may be because I have my pings set up to ping me on "ais523" even when I'm using a different nick 02:16:13 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 02:16:22 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:16:28 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 02:19:28 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 02:19:40 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:19:44 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 02:38:57 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60365&oldid=60347 * A * (+720) /* Implementation */ 02:40:27 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60366&oldid=60365 * A * (+21) 02:43:23 If making the compiler that can compile a C code into a Glulx code, there is a few thing being noted, including that Glk functions that require C strings as input, in Glulx are required to start with a type byte. However, as far as I can tell all of the Glk functions that can use a string can also use a address and length instead, so the calls could be converted. 02:43:37 The only exception seems to be glk_fileref_create_by_name(). 02:52:13 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:52:52 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60367&oldid=60366 * A * (+851) /* Examples in the "standard" derivative:(3,4) */ 02:53:35 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60368&oldid=60367 * A * (-5) /* Hello World! program in Bucket in integers (derivative (1,119)) */ 02:54:50 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60369&oldid=60087 * A * (+834) /* BSoD */ 02:57:32 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60370&oldid=60368 * A * (-19) /* Implementation */ 03:02:15 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60371&oldid=60370 * A * (+173) /* Implementation */ 03:02:23 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60372&oldid=60371 * A * (-31) /* Implementation */ 03:12:10 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60373&oldid=60350 * A * (+439) I have more ideas based on dc. 03:16:58 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60374&oldid=60373 * A * (+611) /* Commands */ 03:19:44 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60375&oldid=60374 * A * (+148) /* Commands */ 03:22:30 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60376&oldid=60375 * A * (+218) /* Commands */ 03:23:42 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60377&oldid=60376 * A * (+0) Overlapping commands 03:24:14 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60378&oldid=60377 * A * (+0) /* Commands */ 03:25:47 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60379&oldid=60378 * A * (+88) /* Commands */ 03:27:45 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60380&oldid=60379 * A * (+106) /* Commands */ 03:28:49 [[Talk:Toadskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60381&oldid=34112 * Camto * (+194) TC with unbounded cells? 03:29:17 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60382&oldid=60380 * A * (+39) /* Commands */ 03:29:34 [[User:Camto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60383&oldid=58316 * Camto * (-50) 03:30:20 [[User:Camto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60384&oldid=60383 * Camto * (+1) Heh 03:31:05 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60385&oldid=60382 * A * (+55) /* Commands */ 03:32:21 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60386&oldid=60385 * A * (+1538) /* Commands */ 03:33:13 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60387&oldid=60386 * A * (-1538) Messed up with the table 03:33:45 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60388&oldid=60387 * A * (-130) /* Commands */ 03:34:29 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60389&oldid=60388 * A * (+0) /* Commands */ 03:37:47 [[Talk:Toadskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60390&oldid=60381 * Camto * (+159) Fix 03:39:35 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60391&oldid=60389 * A * (+454) /* Commands */ 03:40:38 [[3 cell Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60392 * Camto * (+60) Page redirect for TC proof of 3 unbounded cells in BF. 03:41:27 [[Talk:Toadskin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60393&oldid=60390 * Camto * (-99) Use redirect page 03:43:23 [[Talk:Toadskin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60394&oldid=60393 * Camto * (+88) Accidental deletion. 03:45:53 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60395&oldid=60391 * A * (+78) /* Commands */ 03:49:00 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60396&oldid=60395 * A * (+187) /* Commands */ 03:50:28 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:01:59 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60397&oldid=60396 * A * (+363) /* Commands */ 04:02:02 [[User:Camto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60398&oldid=60384 * Camto * (+144) Add Underload. 04:04:47 If some titles use roman numbers, what sort keys will you use? It might sort in alphabetical order by itself, but once you reach nine or if you have fractions, then alphabetical order won't work. 04:05:49 A 04:05:50 A 04:05:50 A 04:06:48 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60399&oldid=60372 * A * (+115) 04:07:05 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60400&oldid=60399 * A * (+3) /* Compugtational Class */ 04:07:14 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60401&oldid=60400 * A * (+0) /* Computational Class */ 04:09:55 -!- salpynx has joined. 04:15:35 zzo38: how do roman fractions work? 04:15:37 hi shachaf 04:15:59 kmc: A dot represents one twelvth and "S" represents one half. 04:16:08 (Subtractive notation is not used with fractions.) 04:18:42 if we are betting on user accounts by the same person, I'm voting A == Cortex, and A != areallycoolusername. Evidence in favour: "(for lack of a better term) Unicode/ASCII" text in ALLSCII and Hexomnia, by different users, and a general confusion of the standards by 'both' users. Also, I seem to occasionally get areallycoolusername's humour, but not the others, they feel different. 04:21:42 A's nomination of Bitch feels in good faith though, pretty confident they are very different users. I can't make sense of the TC proof, it shouldn't be to hard to prove either way. Unbounded value in the accumulator is almost like a tape, but the shifting complicates quite a bit. The original creator wrote "Probably not TC" I believe. 04:22:32 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60402&oldid=60401 * A * (+85) /* Implementation */ 04:26:26 [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60403&oldid=60402 * A * (+82) 04:27:40 [[SWhoopieenddns]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60404 * Camto * (+849) The spec so far. 04:28:48 -!- tromp has joined. 04:31:26 [[SWhoopieenddns]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60405&oldid=60404 * Camto * (-2) 04:33:00 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60406&oldid=60397 * A * (+316) /* Commands */ 04:33:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:35:26 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60407&oldid=60406 * A * (+53) /* Commands */ 04:36:57 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60408&oldid=60407 * A * (+203) /* Commands */ 04:40:41 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60409&oldid=60408 * A * (+231) /* Commands */ 04:46:11 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60410&oldid=60409 * A * (+70) /* Commands */ 04:52:29 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60411&oldid=60410 * A * (-33) /* Commands */ 04:53:23 [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60412&oldid=60411 * A * (+45) /* Commands */ 05:26:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:16:53 -!- tromp has joined. 06:17:25 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60413 * A * (+724) Created page with "[[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] is heavily influenced by the UNIX utility "Desktop Calculator". The only difference is that it adds input to make more programs possible..." 06:18:12 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60414&oldid=60413 * A * (+13671) 06:19:37 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60415&oldid=60414 * A * (+43) 06:21:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:21:41 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60416&oldid=60415 * A * (-1) /* Examples */ 06:23:28 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60417&oldid=60416 * A * (+170) /* Examples */ 06:42:03 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60418&oldid=60417 * A * (+34) /* Examples */ 06:42:15 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60419&oldid=60418 * A * (-7) /* Examples */ 06:42:23 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60420&oldid=60419 * A * (-1) /* Increment by 1 */ 06:50:03 [[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60421&oldid=60420 * A * (-80) 06:51:31 When will IBM release the PC BIOS as free software? The source code can already be found in a book, at least. 06:57:57 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 06:57:57 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split). 06:57:58 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split). 06:57:58 -!- j4cbo has quit (*.net *.split). 07:06:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 07:23:44 [[Bitwise Scanner]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60422 * A * (+736) Created page with "[[Bitwise Scanner]] is a bitwise language created by [[User:A]]. It is based on scanning a bitwise array. =What happens when binary numbers are incremented= 
 000->001 001..."
07:24:18  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60423&oldid=60422 * A * (-151) /* What happens when binary numbers are incremented */
07:26:42  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60424&oldid=60423 * A * (+93) 
07:28:48  " Heck, it'd be valid (if silly) for the errno strings to just be the errno macro." => it wouldn't be silly. it would actually be useful. it's difficult to figure out what errno code localized strerror messages stand for.
07:29:48  Even for English messages it's not so obvious. I even have an old list http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/errno to be able to search the C locale messages from glibc
07:29:53  It gets worse on windows.
07:30:21  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60425&oldid=60424 * A * (+394) /* What happens when binary numbers are incremented */
07:32:24  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60426&oldid=60425 * A * (+57) /* What happens when binary numbers are decremented */
07:33:06  multiple fallback locales in LANGUAGE => oh nice! I wanted something like that for TERM back a decade ago when older systems didn't have the rxvt-unicode terminfo installed, or only had it installed in my homedir so setuid programs couldn't use it.
07:34:36  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60427&oldid=60426 * A * (+59) /* What happens when binary numbers are decremented */
07:35:42  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60428&oldid=60427 * A * (+164) 
07:38:52  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60429&oldid=60428 * A * (+233) 
07:39:19  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60430&oldid=60429 * A * (-73) /* Computational Class */
07:40:08  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60431&oldid=60430 * A * (+58) /* Computational Class */
07:41:41  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60432&oldid=60431 * A * (-1) 
07:42:16  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60433&oldid=60432 * A * (+41) 
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08:00:35  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60434&oldid=60433 * A * (-50) 
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08:08:08  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60435&oldid=60434 * A * (+14) /* Commands */
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08:27:03  I'm trying to read arbitrary character input in Fueue
08:27:08  Let 'a' be a code snippet, 'b' be the result of that snippet after 1 iteration, 'c' be after 2 iterations, etc.
08:27:12  Similarly, if 'A' is a code snippet, then 'B' is the next iteration.
08:27:16  The basic idea is that the construct [[*A])[a!]])$ will read an input (say 5)
08:27:22  and then evaluate to edcbaB, where the number of repetitions of 'a' is equal to the input
08:27:27  The question is, how do we pick values for 'A' and 'a' so that that we can turn `edcbaB` back into the input number?
08:27:31  (the '*' isn't important, by the way; it can be replaced with any item because it gets deleted immediately)
08:27:36  The only example given on the wiki page that uses input is the truth machine, but that only has to distinguish between 2 values
08:28:18  We want 'a' to be something that's relatively stable because we don't know how many times it's going to be evaluated
08:33:40  Sorry, no, the construct is [[*A])[a!])])$
08:33:49  there's an extra ')' in there
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09:40:09  [[Phone call]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60436 * A * (+155) Created page with "[[Phone call]] is a minimalist programming language that uses the character set possible to enter in a phone call. [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:2019]]"
09:40:55  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * A *  uploaded "[[File:Phone dial.JPG]]": This file is used as an example for a phone dial.
09:44:04  [[Phone call]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60438&oldid=60436 * A * (+128) 
09:48:23  [[Phone call]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60439&oldid=60438 * A * (+195) 
09:50:36  [[Phone call]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60440&oldid=60439 * A * (+75) /* Commands */
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09:54:48  [[Phone call]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60441&oldid=60440 * A * (+94) /* Commands */
10:09:09  should we put http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck to the http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_equivalents ?
10:16:50  yes
10:25:56  oh, ALLSCI is a Cortex language that A is finishing, so 'for lack of a better term' is all Cortex. It's too confusing. I still think neither of them are a reallycoolusername.
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11:15:15  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60442&oldid=60359 * Zesterer * (+16) Added Hanoifuck
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12:55:11  [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60443&oldid=60214 * Salpynx * (+25) /* External resources */  Wayback link to Safalra's Thue pages
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14:29:59  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60444&oldid=60435 * A * (+11) Simplify the syntax
14:30:25  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60445&oldid=60444 * A * (+32) /* Commands */
14:31:12  [[Bitwise Scanner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60446&oldid=60445 * A * (+19) /* Computational Class */
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14:35:30  [[Bucket]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60447&oldid=60403 * A * (-23) /* Commands */
14:35:57  [[Bucket]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60448&oldid=60447 * A * (-166) /* Implementation(s) */
14:36:14  [[Bucket]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60449&oldid=60448 * A * (-93) /* Computational class */
14:36:42  [[Bucket]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60450&oldid=60449 * A * (+9) 
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15:54:14  `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190310.html
15:54:15  bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190310.html: b_jonas
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18:15:29  I have idea if each command executed is erased, but the program is initially tiled into the infinite plane so that you will not run out.
19:18:50  [[User:BradensEsolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60451&oldid=59778 * BradensEsolangs * (+8) fixed
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20:03:54  kmc: Even though I don't have an antenna for that RTL-SDR stick, I managed to catch a beacon with it by plugging it to the TV aerial here: http://www.gb3vhf.co.uk/GB3UHFhome.html -- I guess the 70cm amateur radio band is pretty close to DVB-T broadcasts.
20:04:07  cool
20:04:29  I didn't know 70cm even has beacons
20:04:36  here I would listen to a repeater and wait for it to ident
20:05:08  meanwhile I'm trying to decode digital modes on HF using the little shortwave radio i bought yesterday at the flea market
20:12:14  [ 3e8%0.70 NB. 70 cm? what's that in frequency?
20:12:15  b_jonas: 4.28571e8
20:12:30  428 megahertz
20:15:40  b_jonas: the 70 cm ham band is 430-440 in the UK, and 420-450 in murca
20:15:47  (ITU regions 1 and 2 resp.)
20:15:49  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70-centimeter_band
20:16:00  http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%20-%2011X17%20Color.pdf
20:16:06  it's also known as UHF
20:16:30  very popular for local communication
20:16:52  those cheap baofeng handhelds everyone buys / complains about do 70 cm as well as 2 m (VHF, 144-147)
20:17:10  some also do 1.25 m (222-225) but that's much less popular
20:17:55  most areas have plenty of repeaters on 2m and 70cm
20:18:01  using a repeater you can easily go 100 miles
20:18:24  VHF/UHF depends a whole lot on location. line of sight is key
20:18:36  repeaters are on top of mountains which is why they're so effective (plus better antenna and hardware and more power)
20:19:12  if not using a repeater your range will vary from less than a mile, up to 50+ miles if you're both on top of tall hills
20:19:23  my wife and I made a 28 mile contact: https://i.imgur.com/eLhLWBJ.png
20:19:31  using a 5W handheld and a 50W mobile (car) radio
20:19:43  I was on top of a hill and as you can see, there were almost no obstructions
20:21:36  the consumer stuff like FRS, GMRS, and PMR446 are near the 70cm ham band
20:21:38  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]]": Copyright violation: page is mostly copied from a GPL source
20:21:39  MURS is near the 2m band
20:21:50  there are newer radios which use 900 MHz and digital modes
20:22:06  I guess you can get ok range with part 15 digital radio on 900
20:22:22  CB is much lower frequency, 27 MHz / 11 meters
20:22:29  sure, line of sight is part of why people use a large antenna 
20:22:31  as a result you need much longer antennas
20:22:45  so this is why it's mainly a vehicle as opposed to handheld thing
20:23:18  plus, the CB power limit is very low. many people use illegal amplifiers, which are generally of poor quality and cause all kinds of interference
20:23:36  tho CB is declining in popularity now that there's LTE coverage along pretty much the whole US interstate network
20:35:05  I have about 300 repeaters from all over northern California programmed into my handheld
20:35:24  how many of them are active, I don't know
20:35:32  a fair number
20:35:46  I don't talk much, but I listen, and it would be good to have in an emergency
20:37:34  b_jonas: you can also use a directional antenna to get better signal for the same radio power
20:37:50  I built a directional 2m antenna out of bits of tape measure
20:38:05  kmc: sure, people use that for all sorts of high bandwidth wireless digital internet connections
20:38:33  it's a good choice for direction finding http://theleggios.net/wb2hol/projects/rdf/tape_bm.htm
20:38:33  both long distance between two mountains or tall buildings, and short distance with a pair of directional wifi relays for a local network
20:38:41  which is a sport among hams
20:39:06  b_jonas: yeah, even with consumer grade wifi gear you can get impressive distance
20:39:21  of course with 2.4 GHz the line of sight matters even more
20:39:38  my favorite design is "Wi-Fry" or "Wok-Fi"
20:39:46  you take a steel wok 🏆
20:39:54  which approximates a parabolic dish
20:40:07  yes, with line of sight. my previous job used a pair of wifi routers to relay wifi between the two buildings where the company has offices, a few hundred meters apart. I can't call that high bandwidth though.
20:40:12  drill a hole, stick a USB wifi adapter through to the correct distance
20:40:28  done
20:40:50  the servers and all the tech people were in our building, only some managers and marketing guys worked in the other building, so they didn't need a fast conection to the servers of the local network
20:40:56  they had separate internet service of course
20:41:18  I used to have 300 mbps internet at my house, but that was with several commercial grade millimeter wave (60-80 GHz) links
20:41:26  now I have gigabit symmetrical fiber
20:41:58  our friendly local ISP MonkeyBrains runs a mesh of wireless links all over the city
20:42:14  unlike Comcast they are not douchebags
20:43:59  b_jonas: you can actually run wifi under amateur radio rules in the USA
20:44:05  with greater power
20:44:48  but you can't use encryption of any kind, you must identify (usually by putting callsign in SSID), and no commercial use
20:45:23  wait, it possible to use wifi with no encryption of any kind, not even weak one?
20:46:56  yes
20:47:09  Yeah, that's what open Wifi is.
20:47:13  no encryption also means no SSL, no SSH, etc
20:47:19  sure
20:47:44  the common interpretation of the rules is that you can encrypt passwords or use cryptographic authentication
20:47:55  since that isn't obscuring the content of a "message"
20:48:08  armchair lawyering is an important part of the hobby
20:48:14  kmc: um, what do you mean by "cryptogrtaphic authentication"?
20:48:27  oh
20:48:28  I see
20:48:29  ssh pubkey, ssl xlient certs
20:48:30  sorry
20:48:55  And the FCC mostly doesn't care unless you're causing problems for other licensed users.
20:48:59  but you would have to use a null cipher
20:49:10  pikhq: well, some hams are snitches
20:49:24  pikhq: or interference with other frequencies, not necessarily with HAM stuff, right?
20:49:31  it's self regulating and people want to keep that privilege
20:49:39  b_jonas: Other frequencies tend to have other licensed users on it.
20:49:40  b_jonas: yes
20:49:55  oh, you mean licensed in the broad meaning, not just HAM-licensed
20:50:01  Yes.
20:50:35  there are some bands where hams are secondary and must yield to other users
20:50:53  on the rest, any licensed amateur has equal right to use the band
20:50:54  although I think there are also frequencies reserved for earth-based radio-telescopy, and I don't think the stars broadcasting there got a license from FCC, for lightspeed limit reasons
20:51:28  a person can't "own" a frequency although there are voluntary agreements. general courtesy is the way
20:51:35  sure
20:52:07  there are also specific frequencies known for rule breaking
20:52:19  b_jonas: Yeah, that's some of the ISM bands.
20:52:21  you can never own them because they're only leased for long term
20:52:22  people let them be as long as it doesn't spill over to other freqs
20:53:57  and even then with specific restrictions
20:54:48  right
20:55:14  but my point is that for hams there's no exclusive right to use any frequency
20:55:21  yeah
20:55:52  the exclusive rights are for television, radio, and mobile telephony
20:55:57  and probalby some others
20:56:22  marine, land mobie radio, public safety, aviation, military
20:56:37  yeah, the UHF bands used by some public services
20:57:18  how does aviation count as exclusive? aren't most of those bands open for any aviation user?
20:57:46  at least partitioned by location that is
20:58:15  you need a license for that and the aviation authority controls that tightly, but still
20:58:22  it's not like it's exclusive to anyone
21:00:17  I'm guessing each ATC has a specific right for their frequency
21:00:22  Isn't there certain code words and stuff like that for aviation use? (Although I suppose anyone can learn what they are, though.)
21:00:52  zzo38: yes, and there's a license to pilot aviation, not only for the radio
21:03:09  but there's also a license and protocol for HAM
21:03:24  (I have been told there is FOWER and FIFE, which is supposed to be used for 4 and 5 but it is rarely used. NINER for 9 is common though)
21:04:05  b_jonas: Yes, and I think there is more than one kind of protocol for HAM, such as Morse code or RTTY or voice, and for pictures, slowscan and fastscan are used.
21:04:48  zzo38: sure, but I think that sort of redundant words are not really exclusive for aviation, it's used for any noisy voice channel, even without radio.
21:06:00  Yes, maybe it is
21:07:13  mind you, it's getting less common, because we don't have noisy analog phone lines anymore, so the noise comes more from the air environment rather than wires or radio
21:16:02  why does wifi over ham radio ban encryption...?
21:19:50  oh, all encrypted comms are banned over ham radio
21:19:57  Why is the range ARL TWENTY SEVEN up to ARL FORTY FIVE unused? (ARL FORTY EIGHT and ARL FORTY NINE also seems unused, even though ARL FORTY SIX and ARL FORTY SEVEN are defined.)
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22:15:18  zzo38: yeah, ham radio uses all kinds of abbreviations and codes. it's full of jargon for jargon's sake
22:15:24  but they are all well known, so they don't count as encryption
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22:22:06  Is Roblox basically BYOND for 3D games?
22:22:30  I used to love BYOND as a kid. These days I think people only care about BYOND for Space Station 13
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22:55:03  [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60452&oldid=60443 * Salpynx * (+25) /* External resources */ bf in Thue archived resource
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