< 1548979680 957412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried rotating it 4 times in 24 hours hth < 1548979999 358611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's just https://twitter.com/fungot < 1548979999 566221 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he fnord unable, and in any event the government were more often the man, and understandably, brexit. < 1548980004 574589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last tweet from 2012. < 1548980322 19177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-105.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1548980408 622112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1548980427 955562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error while checkign syntax automatically: (irony-server-error "irony-server is broken! Cannot open load file: No such file or directory, lisp-mnt") < 1548980440 954292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing ever works right if you don't keep using it. :/ < 1548982390 580420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp. Now there are no logs. :/ < 1548982443 175282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My deploy.sh is based on building at home and rsync'ing the binaries to the server. Turns out there's too much version shift between the systems now for that to work: < 1548982450 746289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/esowiki/esologs: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.28' not found (required by /home/esowiki/esologs) < 1548982501 120702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least I found this out by trying to restart the server component, so *collecting* logs should keep working. < 1548982520 432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can just build it on the server it needs to go to then. < 1548982575 50966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-105.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1548982609 505380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course it doesn't have any of the necessary dependencies for building things.) < 1548984114 3486 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htaoknsxqajukwfa QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1548985117 468598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and of course the GCC 6.x available on the server's Debian version is too old to support ... < 1548985812 467362 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be < 1548989601 120090 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1548989627 712005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it is. < 1548989645 102022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also managed to work around it by producing a statically linked binary. < 1548989667 344911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the usual "Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking" warnings, but seems like it was good enough. < 1548989801 133587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe by the next time this becomes an issue, buster has become the new stable. < 1548989924 319458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, there's no , so...) < 1548991260 745620 :dauie_!~dauie@64.62.224.29 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1548992299 906468 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1548998097 520346 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1548999226 847008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59662&oldid=59497 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2398) 10answering my own question < 1549000169 245987 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1549000315 510976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:EsoScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59663 5* 03Cortex 5* (+130) 10Created page with "== ... == This is literally just MediaWiki syntax. ~~~~" < 1549002380 964027 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@mobile-166-176-186-12.mycingular.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549002683 949638 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@mobile-166-176-186-12.mycingular.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549002695 514885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59664&oldid=59662 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+534) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ < 1549008887 110060 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549011640 908682 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549011671 168227 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549011896 800165 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549012197 276903 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549012826 465385 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jxmpyediyrlabnej QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549012888 106026 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-tkjeugmbuermrpam JOIN :#esoteric < 1549013936 944285 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549016520 274623 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549016530 441902 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you trying to install something to the server that runs HackEso? < 1549019351 403895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to update the bit that runs esolangs.org/logs, though it's the same server, sure. < 1549019555 978683 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549019565 685338 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it at least doesn't have to run inside the hackeso sandbox < 1549019608 255412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Although that does share userland with... well, the intermediate layer of sandboxing. < 1549019778 417774 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, a large part of the file system is shared read only < 1549019848 176282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso really goes at least three levels deep -- there's the (I think KVM-based) Bytemark VPS, which runs a systemd-nspawn namespace-container-style "chroot on steroids" thing, which then has HackEso's UML kernel. < 1549019904 339995 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549019912 701870 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's why it said < 1549019931 799675 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat /proc/cpuinfo < 1549019932 842881 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :processor : 0 \ vendor_id : User Mode Linux \ model name : UML \ mode : skas \ host : Linux dysnomia.zem.fi 4.9.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 (2018-01-04) x86_64 \ bogomips : 5134.74 < 1549019941 585626 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even tell what instruction set it supports anywhere < 1549019961 670919 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, you can still find that out the intel way < 1549019967 898025 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just funny how sparse that cpuinfo is < 1549019977 25652 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean instruction set extensions < 1549019985 79413 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does say x86_64 as the base cpu arch < 1549020045 969638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The middle level shares a kernel with the top level, while the bottom level shares the userland. Although those are both just Debian stable installations, so they're more or less identical. < 1549020141 623552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shares the userland/& with the middle level/ < 1549020162 11616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also why it says "dysnomia.zem.fi" -- that's the hostname in the container, though it has no presence in the public DNS since it's not directly reachable. The VPS itself is called something else. < 1549020172 433505 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the top level also running on a virtual machine by a hosting provider? < 1549020176 144579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1549020184 741347 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like four level deep at leat < 1549020184 952508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top level from my perspective, I guess. < 1549020204 296493 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what level does the chat log script and chat http server run? < 1549020216 128564 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the irc client < 1549020237 3388 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fetch HTTP client < 1549020302 501841 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the network of the middle layer already restricted by namespaces, with holes only to tunnel the irc connection, the http interface for the version control contents, and fetch? < 1549020322 242529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "esobot" (the IRC client and log-writer) and "esologs" (the esolangs.org/logs web server) binaries both run on the top level together with MediaWiki, though not for any particular reason. < 1549020349 758192 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549020353 322214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso's own machinery (so multibot, hackbot, the `fetch command and so) run on the middle one, and the `commands on the bottom one. < 1549020389 616172 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549020470 393428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, the container networking is namespaced. Outgoing, it allows TCP to ports 80, 443 and 6665 to any host (for `fetch and the IRC connection) and UDP 53 to the VPS provider's DNS servers. < 1549020483 590299 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1549020493 182107 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not tunneled, those are just passed through < 1549020507 726438 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were connected to an external fetch server < 1549020530 634708 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an external http server for the version control interface < 1549020557 178401 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the hg repository lives in the middle level? < 1549020684 354700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a virtual ethernet interface that's a point-to-point link between interfaces 'host0' in the container, and 've-dysnomia' in the top level, and there's iptables NAT rules. So not really tunneled, no. < 1549020718 276686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no networking out of the UML, but historically on HackEgo (when it was still working) that was based on a tunnel to a proxy server. < 1549020789 240114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, the hg repository is on the middle level (and mounted read-only to the bottom), although the filesystem hierarchy of the middle level is accessible from the top. < 1549020804 606631 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so you can back it up from the top > 1549020813 25358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072/9 of an esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59665&oldid=59526 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1) 10 < 1549020820 959943 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much of this was inherited from hackego? < 1549020860 549586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I think I might have the hgweb server running on the top level directly, though that's also for no special reason. < 1549020941 282187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo was broadly similar, but in place of the container setup it just had a conventional chroot. < 1549020960 171455 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549021016 201083 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pcb < 1549021017 122999 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcb? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549021245 404802 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549021347 320126 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549021385 673603 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549021737 905185 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`datei < 1549021738 529884 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-02-01 11:48:58.062828658 +0000 UTC February 1 Friday 2019-W05-5 < 1549024443 111861 :PaddyF!~PaddyF@p200300DEF718134188B366B603712D54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549026613 409182 :PaddyF!~PaddyF@p200300DEF718134188B366B603712D54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART #esoteric :"bbl" < 1549028049 464397 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-172-212-236.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549028381 714290 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvsvssoaymzktftf JOIN :#esoteric < 1549029807 403709 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549030050 776498 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549030433 663576 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549030462 246940 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549032599 628875 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549033336 286677 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? viking < 1549033337 341332 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :viking? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549034407 820865 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549034582 954257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549035659 549440 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1549037742 892290 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 604 seconds < 1549038924 886476 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549043122 906522 :dre!~andre@ip56-53-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1549043166 119452 :dre!~andre@ip56-53-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549046545 758126 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549046624 567024 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international cloning factory for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1549047029 993013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame other languages don't really have a Hoogle/Hayoo-like thing, at least as far as I know. Maybe it wouldn't work so well, but in Go I'm not so familiar with the standard(/quasistandard) libs and could easily look up some functions by type signature. < 1549047090 577858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much "deployment" do we really do? < 1549047274 987448 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well fungot is arguably a "deployed" befunge progam < 1549047275 315560 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: we are in the process of what i suppose the minister can, preferably, the termination, of his now even more counterproductive fiscal rule, but < 1549047306 733741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549047711 485180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Not much. Back when the cloud at cost system was still running, I was considering using it as a staging server for MediaWiki upgrades. < 1549047958 973768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that, I have a homegrown configuration pusher I use for all my systems (a git repo for configs, plus a bunch of Python to SSH in, verify that the live file matches the last-pushed revision and replace that with the latest) that also takes care of updating all the config files on both the top and middle levels. It's got a special case to use machinectl/nsenter to inject itself into the < 1549047964 986033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :container, so the container doesn't need to be SSH-reachable. < 1549047981 674801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The mounts are visible outside, but the UID/GID lookup is easier inside the container.) < 1549048076 501104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It basically runs "ssh ... sudo [nsenter ...] python3 -" and feeds in a program that contains both the config file payload and the logic to insert it in place. < 1549048211 807503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For code changes to esologs/esobot, there's just a shell script to do "bazel build -c opt //esologs //esobot" + rsync to put the binaries and the static files (.css, .js) in the right place. Didn't feel right putting those in the config pusher. < 1549048284 742931 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1549048288 893588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's about it. I'm always a little bit nervous when it comes time to update MediaWiki (it probably actually is way past time) because even though it's backed up, I haven't really ran any disaster recovery tests, and don't have a test environment to try on. < 1549048370 219684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the esologs/esobot binaries I can run them locally. There's actually a dozen lines of code in the esologs web server that if it's built without NDEBUG, it can serve the CSS/JS files for local testing. Normally that's done by nginx and it answers only for the dynamic parts. < 1549048948 310534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: yeah < 1549049023 397967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1549049243 899334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: has IOCCC ended, since you removed it from the topic? < 1549049728 659396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn < 1549049731 930475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it hasn't ended < 1549049732 102376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should ask doctor rakethorn why he keeps not wearing shirts - although my obvious guess is that he's got orders to try to seduce agatha, but he could be a bit more subtle about it especially if he wants others not to interfere < 1549049741 675046 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu TOPIC #esoteric :2019 IOCCC ends March 15th -- http://www.ioccc.org/2019/rules.txt | Welcome to the international cloning factory for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1549049748 24338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1549049759 950650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549049759 994188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549049760 33640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549050512 136118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "guess", i think his conversation with wooster pretty much implied it. < 1549050947 808503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? liver < 1549050948 878765 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :liver? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549050949 687023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? livery < 1549050950 846515 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :livery? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549051043 541570 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549052845 771188 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1549053263 675230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59666&oldid=59664 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+416) 10Not that simple < 1549054656 808479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549054773 877172 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart JOIN :#esoteric < 1549054937 242388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549054937 331027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549054937 331072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549055003 325071 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549055039 558833 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549055315 576453 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: kernel update < 1549055366 351789 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549055411 281855 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549055877 930395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1549055879 653201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 012050Z 09009KT CAVOK M04/M10 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 12009KT < 1549056721 810544 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1549057049 788985 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart JOIN :#esoteric < 1549057639 776117 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1549057887 422009 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549057887 504997 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549058368 107579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1549058368 614901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 012150Z AUTO 36007KT 320V030 5000 -RASN BKN010 OVC029 02/01 Q0995 < 1549058371 803695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wet. < 1549058503 90197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1549058503 673367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 012153Z 14016KT 10SM SCT046 BKN055 OVC100 15/09 A2978 RMK AO2 RAB2058E19 SLP084 P0000 T01500089 < 1549058638 51859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I can't claim much better on that :P < 1549058645 324862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wong wrindow < 1549060019 636780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-47.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549060791 984377 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i was cool enough to be able to read metar < 1549060951 310722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of these numbers means 'fucking cold' < 1549061010 397401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The temperature (in celsius) is the first half of the M04/M10, 02/01, 15/09 pair. < 1549061061 912541 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's 2°C at EGLL and 15°C at KOAK? < 1549061082 397126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And -4°C at ENVA. < 1549061090 689551 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, M = minus < 1549061095 273347 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1549061105 874378 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the second number? < 1549061116 445985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the dew point. < 1549061125 210586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's M00/M00, that's called "cow temperatures". < 1549061131 788304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's how a cow goes. < 1549061148 29068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not official METAR jargon.) < 1549061153 48518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or swims, in that case < 1549061189 808804 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1549061196 355670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more like gets stuck in ice, i guess < 1549061218 510965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 012153Z part is a partial timestamp in DDHHMMZ format, so the report was 21:53 UTC on the 1st day of some unspecified month. < 1549061314 335356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the 14016KT is wind direction 140°, 16 knots. Sometimes it has extra stuff, like "...10G20KT" is 10 knots, gusts of 20, or "VRB" in place of a direction. < 1549061528 324491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :10SM and 5000 are visibilities, in statute miles and metres respectively. SCT046, BKN055 OVC100 are cloud covers (scattered, broken, overcast) with heights in 100s of feet. A2987 and Q0995 are the air pressure in some units (mmHg and hPa?), and that's pretty much all I remember. < 1549061530 862350 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart JOIN :#esoteric < 1549061560 308345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and precipitation is various codes, so -RASN is weak (-) rain (RA) and snow (SN). < 1549061633 70867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've only seen DZ, RA, SN, GR, BR, FG and HZ (drizzle, rain, snow, hail, mist, fog, haze), but there's a lot more. < 1549061787 946932 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1549062070 84816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about FU < 1549062083 685819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely had that one here tdnh < 1549062343 922643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smoke, apparently. Haven't seen that here. < 1549062347 524489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also no code for drones. < 1549062478 758560 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might have to add one soon < 1549062504 408727 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else would UK airports report the condition at the runway accurately... < 1549062523 56863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGPH < 1549062523 615491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGPH 012250Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW022 BKN038 01/00 Q1002 < 1549062538 245769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even freezing < 1549062597 518730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the "PH" there mean Phantom_Hoover? Is it your own airport? < 1549062603 787058 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1549062615 636185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally yes < 1549062618 721058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's edinburgh airport < 1549062932 372638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao EGPH < 1549062933 141722 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edinburgh (EDI, EGPH) < 1549063006 942575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually live in edinburgh any more but i don't know the icao for glasgow airport < 1549063016 671226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... anywhere except edinburgh really < 1549063017 913399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`airport glasgow < 1549063018 642746 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glasgow (GLA, EGPF) \ Wokal Field Glasgow International Airport (GGW, KGGW) \ Glasgow Railway Station (?, ?) \ Glasgow Buchanan Bus Station (?, ?) \ Glasgow City Heliport (?, EGEG) \ Glasgow Industrial (?, 07MT) < 1549063024 737255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :khaf and ksfo i suppose < 1549063028 269629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very close, lexicographically. < 1549063035 345277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar egeg < 1549063035 980211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No result. < 1549063040 221714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1549063045 957546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar egpf < 1549063046 515249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGPF 012250Z AUTO 28007KT 9999 NCD 01/M03 Q1004 < 1549063083 369881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLC < 1549063083 763356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLC 012250Z AUTO 34005KT 280V010 8000 -RA SCT010 BKN018 OVC024 02/01 Q0995 < 1549063096 202088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I flew from that place the other day for the first time. < 1549063104 789920 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart JOIN :#esoteric < 1549063112 169719 :leonheart!~leonheart@gateway/tor-sasl/leonheart QUIT :Client Quit < 1549063141 3980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao eglc < 1549063141 755214 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :City (LCY, EGLC) < 1549063152 998879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :just city lol < 1549063328 367164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch share/airports.dat https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jpatokal/openflights/master/data/airports-extended.dat < 1549063329 613338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-02-01 23:22:09 URL:https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jpatokal/openflights/master/data/airports-extended.dat [1632638/1632638] -> "share/airports.dat" [1] < 1549063334 267440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao eglc < 1549063335 65871 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :London City Airport (LCY, EGLC) < 1549063338 636698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bette. < 1549063344 835676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...r. < 1549063374 178852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(airports-extended.dat is the one with also train stations and ferry terminals, so maybe the plain airports.dat would've been better.) < 1549064305 936521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549064496 271048 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549064578 433046 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549064582 394420 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao ksfo < 1549064583 259949 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :San Francisco International Airport (SFO, KSFO) < 1549064608 473435 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :usa gets the best icao codes cause we're the best < 1549064621 867421 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why our phone country code is 1 < 1549064637 368922 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549064681 429235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada has the same deal when it comes to ICAO codes, it's just XXX <-> CXXX. < 1549064720 685085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And aren't they in the +1 area too? < 1549064723 843136 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549064728 168385 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but their 3 letter codes are gibberish < 1549064730 569019 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :YYZ, give me a break < 1549064906 938073 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549064942 252734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao CYYZ < 1549064943 271548 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lester B. Pearson International Airport (YYZ, CYYZ) < 1549064973 610438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that should print the city as well. < 1549064984 646894 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's not a substring of the airport name, say. < 1549065005 279413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep CYYZ share/airports.dat < 1549065007 34421 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :193,"Lester B. Pearson International Airport","Toronto","Canada","YYZ","CYYZ",43.6772003174,-79.63059997559999,569,-5,"A","America/Toronto","airport","OurAirports" < 1549065083 543862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has train stations too? how does that work? < 1549065113 670880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just what they said on the download page. < 1549065136 696973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep Euston.Railway share/airports.dat < 1549065137 434708 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7393,"London Euston Railway Station","London","United Kingdom",\N,\N,51.5284,-0.1331,0,0,"U","Europe/London","station","User" < 1549065156 320558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nulls (with the \N CSV encoding) on the ICAO and IATA columns, I guess. < 1549065196 432130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think it has more than a small fraction of railway stations.) < 1549065203 500829 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some US train stations have codes < 1549065207 685087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao kzfv < 1549065208 521442 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549065216 112744 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata zfv < 1549065216 840298 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philadelphia 30th St Station (ZFV, ?) < 1549065247 531002 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata zep < 1549065248 277748 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549065280 235962 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata zyp < 1549065281 48082 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Penn Station (ZYP, ?) < 1549065298 583692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata LON < 1549065299 317925 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Airports (LON, ?) < 1549065304 824973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best name. < 1549065328 978867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet alleges that there's actually an ICAO code ("EGGO") for the London Metropolitan Area. < 1549065395 667166 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some airlines in the US will sell you a ticket which includes a rail connection < 1549067761 396540 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549068670 23478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549069264 402744 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata nyc < 1549069265 332550 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Airports (NYC, ?) < 1549071122 772303 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1549072890 430351 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvsvssoaymzktftf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549073906 725209 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549074632 705212 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549074706 866179 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549076219 461646 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549078911 775384 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549086514 139669 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3DB0C00A0AF33F19F169A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549086846 343538 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549086969 661541 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549087447 226240 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549090735 226613 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549096922 554099 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549096931 225608 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1549099394 880509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59667 5* 03A 5* (+1332) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} [[golfuck]] is an extension of [[brainfuck]]. It is created in order to write short programs. In addition to brainfuck, golfuck adds a stack. =Commands added= 1549099879 355854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59668&oldid=59667 5* 03A 5* (+263) 10 > 1549099927 366941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59669&oldid=59668 5* 03A 5* (+26) 10 > 1549099973 87479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59670&oldid=59669 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Quine(Directly translated from Golfscript) */ < 1549100284 72472 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549100308 257705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549100379 448475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59671&oldid=59670 5* 03A 5* (+650) 10 > 1549100446 190746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59672&oldid=59671 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* Implementation in C++ */ > 1549100692 562041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59673&oldid=59672 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549100734 348592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59674&oldid=59673 5* 03A 5* (-8) 10/* Commands added */ > 1549100752 503657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59675&oldid=59674 5* 03A 5* (-38) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549100782 820649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59676&oldid=59675 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10/* Cat program(string version, hexdump) */ < 1549100888 462855 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549100947 391820 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1549101071 380975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59677&oldid=59676 5* 03A 5* (+72) 10 > 1549101196 32662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59678&oldid=59630 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10/* GolfScript */ > 1549101217 179605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59679&oldid=59678 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10whoops > 1549101306 467140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of quines14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59680&oldid=59592 5* 03A 5* (+26) 10/* Glass */ > 1549101412 543532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59681&oldid=59577 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10/* Goldfish */ > 1549101514 930742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59682&oldid=59677 5* 03A 5* (-862) 10Too lazy to write an interpreter > 1549101573 634252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59683&oldid=59666 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2805) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ my mistake on input matching, but open-node identity preserving is not that restrictive > 1549101578 270420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59684&oldid=59682 5* 03A 5* (+862) 10Undo revision 59682 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) < 1549101850 376315 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1549101908 397408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59685&oldid=59684 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10fix a problem < 1549102797 244730 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549103521 531208 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549104484 435505 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3DB0C00A0AF33F19F169A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549105013 942361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59686&oldid=59683 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+948) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ stating my argument for the Eodermdrome command superset calculation < 1549107674 390249 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549107836 559749 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549107840 310401 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549108170 402762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1549108171 236447 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :268) I use LiGNUXFCE+apps That's pronounced by saying "Linux" and then vomiting, btw. \ 48) both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? > 1549108557 671761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59687&oldid=59685 5* 03A 5* (+281) 10/* Partial implementation in C */ > 1549109054 612841 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59688&oldid=59687 5* 03A 5* (+70) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549109207 71168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59689&oldid=59688 5* 03A 5* (+113) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109234 389212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59690&oldid=59689 5* 03A 5* (-85) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109265 64160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59691&oldid=59690 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109781 385941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59692&oldid=59691 5* 03A 5* (-39) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109881 934618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59693&oldid=59692 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ < 1549109996 530258 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1549110042 504713 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59694&oldid=59693 5* 03A 5* (+226) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ < 1549110125 107925 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549110151 841641 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549110692 165355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59695&oldid=59694 5* 03A 5* (-25) 10/* Cat program(string version, hexdump) */ > 1549110712 970793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59696&oldid=59695 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Computational class */ < 1549110927 301996 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549111000 225556 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549111196 169646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549113255 153336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a comedian the same as a median? > 1549114198 277358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59697&oldid=59696 5* 03A 5* (+193) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549114369 752737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59698&oldid=59697 5* 03A 5* (+46) 10Fix nested parenthases < 1549114645 455117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549114705 216767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1549114705 607454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1549114741 711315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar egbb < 1549114743 389993 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGBB 021320Z 35013KT 9999 FEW024 04/M02 Q1010 < 1549114846 310412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in object-oriented languages, it's often hard to know what's a method versus a function versus a builder < 1549114855 683771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a hoogle-alike would either have to check all possibilities or require the user to do so < 1549114864 853250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the problem is often working out what object to use, not what method to use) < 1549114898 527658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, in languages like C, there often aren't /enough/ types to narrow the results down, and very few higher-order functions anyway (which is where hoogle works best) < 1549114943 887146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: re esolang deployment, I'd say TIO is probably the leader in that at the moment < 1549115516 643894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 24184 25008 2720 < 1549115517 551208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1549115524 594366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does OEIS not find this? < 1549115541 768730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1549115577 686065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that seems likely. is TIO associated with freenode/#esoteric in some way? < 1549115638 735500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? TIO < 1549115639 861624 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549115651 310133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it has a chat room on chat.stackexchange.com < 1549115695 480409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1549115697 582830 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'tio': TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1549115705 441499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 5 < 1549115711 910538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://oeis.org/A001511 The ruler function: 2^a(n) divides 2n. Or, a(n) = 2... < 1549115712 115317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2... < 1549115808 454116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perlbot used to have an oeis search primitive built in too, but it's bitrotten since < 1549116070 294586 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you accent “abacaba”? I seem to gravitate to the third syllable < 1549116161 403663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix((1:).(>>=(:[1]).succ)) < 1549116163 675634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2... < 1549116247 539138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :,aba'caba < 1549116381 44481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the pattern continues like this: ,aba'caba,aba"daba,aba'caba < 1549116421 583770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe the next step is a short pause... ,aba'caba,aba daba,aba'caba) < 1549116898 268366 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549116922 667539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there’s something wrong, no two adjacent letters should be the same < 1549117093 471101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 i.#:}:i.2^8 < 1549117094 211305 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 < 1549117094 250775 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 < 1549117094 250841 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 < 1549117094 250873 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 < 1549117094 250901 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 < 1549117094 319731 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 < 1549117094 359190 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 < 1549117095 275318 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 < 1549117095 431541 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ... < 1549117096 920770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1549117098 247968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1549117265 106652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah I realized that a minute later but didn't bother to fix it. < 1549117304 688120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 i.~"1|."1 #:}.i.2^8 < 1549117305 375165 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 6 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 7 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 6 ... < 1549117320 440569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ a.{~97+1 i.~"1|."1 #:}.i.2^8 < 1549117321 81745 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacaba < 1549117373 287049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(('a':).(>>=(:['a']).succ)) < 1549117375 576817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117382 439298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jabba] < 1549117418 141376 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I have a shorter nick so I get two extra characters for golfing ;-) < 1549117442 676220 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw in a (var) to remove the double quote :-) < 1549117443 404910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$('a':).(>>=(:['a']).succ) < 1549117445 597760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117453 338188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does var not work for infinite strings? < 1549117484 935581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to oerjan, `var` works for infinite strings whereas `text` does not. < 1549117503 53418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1549117509 438005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$('a':).(>>=(:"a").succ) < 1549117511 697048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117512 38562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run var (cycle "long string ") < 1549117514 222195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : long string long string long string long string long string long string long... < 1549117532 799892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it turns out that lambdabot gives a much longer result in private message < 1549117571 111578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you only have yourself to blame if it spams you privately... < 1549117583 708566 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549117664 250119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ a.{~97+([:,0,"0>:)^:9]0 < 1549117664 986397 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549117737 957371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you want to golf, < 1549117739 116776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ u:97+,@(0,.>:)^:9]0 < 1549117739 817824 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549117767 22506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J doesn't handle infinite expressions, so this output is only 512 bytes long < 1549117772 390418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549117776 254472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean infinite lists < 1549118073 287563 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1549118090 786470 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we should invent an esolang with infinite expressions < 1549118110 503118 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as if it wasn’t invented yet… I bet it was) < 1549118142 652680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :many programming languages already have an interactive repl, which can evaluate partial programs up to the first top-level semicolon or similar < 1549118155 51345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some esolangs have such a thing too < 1549118166 769702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( hm, could I golf abacaba in C# in a reasonable amount of code ) < 1549118246 126940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even among esolangs that aren't brainfuck-alikes < 1549119251 31286 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 'a' < 1549119253 411103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 97 < 1549119609 760324 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 'j' < 1549119612 352289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 106 < 1549119647 681030 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’m not a golfer at all, so the result is this long: < 1549119650 909922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :class A{static void Main(){B(106);}static void B(int c){if(c>96){B(c-1);System.Console.Write((char)c);B(c-1);}}} < 1549119674 861115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "class A{static void Main(){B(106);}static void B(int c){if(c>96){B(c-1);System.Console.Write((char)c);B(c-1);}}}" < 1549119676 890548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 112 < 1549119732 516299 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry, TIO shows the length in plain sight < 1549119997 533837 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks nice < 1549120032 714607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would that be shorter in J than the one I showed above? let me see < 1549120208 802577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (],,)/a.{~105-i.9 < 1549120209 487874 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120220 983863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (],,)/u:105-i.9 < 1549120221 629689 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120225 688040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's shorter < 1549120235 798249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ u:97+,@(0,.>:)^:9]0 < 1549120236 497690 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120290 29073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you're right, writing it that way is shorter if you don't have infinite lists < 1549120304 507103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1549120311 772225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite lists might not be the discriminator < 1549120335 836104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long a Haskell this would translate to. < 1549120351 796153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be some fold or another < 1549120521 73559 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..'j'] < 1549120523 173247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120526 989902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr(ap(++).(:))[]"jihgfedcba" < 1549120529 126934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120575 352240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..'j'] < 1549120577 421324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120588 603394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1549120672 844536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..] -- probably too slow < 1549120679 109370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1549120687 503768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y->x++y:x < 1549120687 914241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (.) (++) (flip (:)) < 1549120691 856614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \y x->x++y:x < 1549120692 258351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (++) . (:) < 1549120712 704160 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "too slow" heh < 1549120730 993193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['a'..] < 1549120733 284626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114015 < 1549120746 250038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a finite list, just a pretty long one. < 1549120750 268012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr(ap(++).(:))[]"gfedcba" < 1549120752 608301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120764 752848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549120788 835001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the fold would be two to that power long, which is greater than 2**256 so it never terminates < 1549120809 771238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... theoretically I disagree :) < 1549120889 334674 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice it will run out of memory in a reasonable amount of time. < 1549120919 648195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm thinking about cryptography heuristics, like how attacks can use up to about 2**128 bits of memory and about 2**128 runtime and 2**256 total computation < 1549120930 274331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it will also print a few million characters because of laziness) < 1549120989 627982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah both these numbers seem to be reasonably safe upper bounds. :) < 1549121034 324063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we need reasonably safe because we want to add some luck, eg. we don't want to design cryptosystems for which the strongest attack works with exactly 1/2 probability < 1549121056 580474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want the crypto to be unbreakable even if Eve is somewhat lucky < 1549121066 366817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549121238 419421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we use 512-bit keys if we're certain that the trap function has no vulnerability but you can do a square root speed and fourth root memory attack, such as for digests where we don't want collisions even if the attacker can choose a plaintext, and 256 bit keys when the trap function has no vulnerability and we're certain that no such square root attack is feasable with only cube root memory, < 1549121272 595679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the heuristic gets harder for public key crypto because we can't use just trap functions to implement them < 1549121307 381539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I’m glad my long code helped you shorten the J one :) < 1549121321 566796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's not long. it fits in an irc line. < 1549121325 468362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :comfortably. < 1549121365 352522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still fit in an irc line if you translated it to java. < 1549121405 108626 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549121428 117232 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought it should be as small as possible < 1549121472 205401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even tried to write some cleverness like "using C = System.Console", but it proved to be longer < 1549121506 428037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that doesn't help if you only have one reference to System.Console in the code < 1549121513 980500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as small as possible/smaller than I think it’s really possible < 1549121553 140931 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: exactly < 1549121644 579332 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ASAP < 1549121646 465476 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASAP? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549121740 522366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm maybe not millions... it was up to 24GB after printing 451 characters. < 1549121752 251495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ASAP, in code golf, means as small as possible < 1549121754 399251 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'asap': ASAP, in code golf, means as small as possible < 1549121780 87556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no good mental model for how this should grow over time. < 1549121983 465193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x.(y:).x)id['a'..][] < 1549121986 570414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549122476 595762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map(\x->chr$97+popCount(x.&.(-x)-1))[1..] < 1549122478 702587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549122486 203912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ how do you golf this one? < 1549122565 152313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the libraries that lambdabot import have a count trailing zeroes function somewhere, so that we don't have to write it in terms of popcount? < 1549122688 95717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount(x.&.(-x)-1))[1..] < 1549122688 477259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . subtract 1 . ap (.&.) negate) [1..] < 1549123047 614415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount(-1-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123047 958785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . negate . (-) 1 . negate . join (.|.)) [1..] < 1549123068 222418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1549123083 423538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x-> -1-x < 1549123083 792136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 6): < 1549123083 952667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549123083 952709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting lambda abstraction or expression < 1549123090 600136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl -1-x < 1549123091 52535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1549123091 92069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549123091 247177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1549123148 614784 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1-5) < 1549123150 765013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -6 < 1549123151 240998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1-5) < 1549123151 586778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1549123158 133364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a bug? < 1549123400 338777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map(\x->chr$97+popCount((-1)-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123402 524608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549123404 990566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount((-1)-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123405 479590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . (-) -1 . negate . join (.|.)) [1..] < 1549123407 986066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :workaround < 1549123432 210968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1549123455 671487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still doesn't quite look right < 1549123489 371999 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is < 1549123613 759336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (- 1-5) < 1549123616 40844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -6 < 1549123639 760678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, @pl being buggy is not exactly a new thing. < 1549123698 595262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (- 1-5) < 1549123699 1067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1549123720 977446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking clearly or I would not even have tried that. < 1549123728 786145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -(1-5) < 1549123731 60180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1549123836 532626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, with haskell you never know < 1549123864 669686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in ruby the spaces can matter in some expression involving unary negation < 1549123989 69119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, (f -2) is a method call (f(-2)), but (f-2) is a subtraction (f.-2) < 1549124042 599980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the simplest case < 1549124046 21608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby syntax is complicated < 1549124088 520971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also (f - 2) and (f- 2) are also subtraction < 1549124165 469098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the way, (-x) desugars to the method call (x.-@) < 1549124185 436722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl div 4 5 < 1549124185 866464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1549124198 225363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1`mod`2) < 1549124198 641853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 < 1549124205 997396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1`mod`2 < 1549124208 137268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1549124212 754751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1549124227 74989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549124245 182196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with different numbers, for (-(1`mod`2)) and ((-1)`mod`2) are equal < 1549124252 230410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are not < 1549124261 110188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1)`mod`2 < 1549124263 409442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1549124272 913937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1)`rem`2 < 1549124275 271231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1549124280 1211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe that's one of the other mod operations < 1549124305 808086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like seven or so of them, even if you don't count the behavior for overflow or division by zero < 1549124314 552514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl -1==2 < 1549124314 845974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1549124314 885488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549124314 885566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1549124338 573004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1)==2 < 1549124338 895497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1549124375 718130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1==2) < 1549124376 146160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate False < 1549124386 367434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1==2 < 1549124388 747966 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1549124390 806963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1==2) < 1549124393 84716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1549124395 339286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> negate False < 1549124397 571780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1549124397 571845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Num Bool) arising from a use of ‘negate’ < 1549124397 720557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In the expression: negate False < 1549124581 748920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, to parse unary - correctly one needs to be aware of the precedence level of nearby infix oerators... and @pl's parser is not. So things are broken, and it's not obvious how to do it correctly on top of http://hackage.haskell.org/package/parsec-3.1.13.0/docs/Text-ParserCombinators-Parsec-Expr.html. < 1549124594 527927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which the @pl parser is using) < 1549124608 168302 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably it should use haskell-src-exts instead. < 1549124695 399830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549124815 508651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- TODO, use Language.Haskell < 1549124863 711526 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549124880 155173 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549125032 574179 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1549125040 805549 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1549126492 171235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, strange. apparently Knuth uses the notation "sec" in chapter 7.1.3, and doesn't define it anywhere, not even in appendix B. he's using it in a context where it's possible to reverse engineer what he means, but still, it's strange. < 1549126580 568197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y z -> ((x z) (y z)) < 1549126581 17076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1549127267 254534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well that narrows it down to 69 pages. < 1549127317 412612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: vol 4A page 168 < 1549127406 806636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I see. So it is the standard trigonometric function. < 1549127420 672888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "standard" < 1549127636 777729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I think they are standard. Programming languages make a bad measuring stick for what constitutes a standard function in mathematics. < 1549128023 255760 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :first it’s a secant, and then there are haversines all over the place < 1549128337 942748 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549128687 342251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hoversine < 1549128688 562327 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoversine? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549128691 601403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hovercraft < 1549128692 668852 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner. < 1549128707 659045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? havercraft < 1549128708 744523 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :havercraft? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549128710 34410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? haversine < 1549128711 209388 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haversine? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549128808 111350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I have to admit, Abramowitz & Stegun defines it on http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/Reference/AMS55.asp?Res=150&Page=72 , which is close to making it a standard notation < 1549128858 680909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's carried on to https://dlmf.nist.gov/4.14 ) < 1549128956 251613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there definitions for ver-hyperbolic functions? < 1549129350 477885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there any relation to were-creatures? < 1549130891 131532 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcdyqqhxorbzuwyn JOIN :#esoteric < 1549131734 131826 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549132924 350627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :versinh doesn't make much sense because sinh isn't bounded < 1549132966 128117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a vertan for the same reason < 1549133022 811578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's an extan, but sure < 1549133038 862205 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1549133042 683605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only an exsec < 1549133050 707998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549133125 807944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I usually just use sin, cos, tan, sinh, cosh, tanh for formulas, or exp(i*x). I don't know how the other stuff work. < 1549133287 463370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1549133298 403061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical of defining too many special-case names. < 1549133323 710217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it made sense back in the day when people had tables of all these functions. < 1549133324 391910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549134266 467156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you think sin or cos is more fundamental? < 1549134282 418467 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cos but i forgot why < 1549134287 970389 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff with fourier series comes out nicer? < 1549134661 624328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the main reason to use versine is because of rounding errors, if you happen to need (1 - cos x) and the resulting value is near 0 you can't calculate that from cos x, because values near 1 have far fewer significant figures < 1549134709 36631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modern computers can calculate it as 2((sin(x/2))²) without losing much accuracy, so having it as a separate primitive is less important < 1549134786 508316 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know the thing about RF mixing and trig identities and nonlinear devices and taylor series? < 1549134793 869716 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically describes how all modern radios work < 1549134813 699941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very < 1549134821 105239 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will tell you whether you like it or not! < 1549134833 740538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is some Cool Math < 1549134923 313447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a radio which can tune frequencies over a wide range < 1549134967 872578 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various engineering reasons, you often want to shift the signals of interest into a fixed frequency range < 1549135021 817314 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one is that it's easier to build circuits which perform well on a fixed range; another is that you might want to sample the signal digitally and it's easier when you reduce the frequency first) < 1549135074 366522 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do this you use a local oscillator to generate a frequency near the frequencies of interest < 1549135078 161939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason is that high-frequency circuitry is a pain to design and shield correctly, all sorts of weird things happen at high frequencies < 1549135097 941901 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then multiply that time-varying signal by the RF input to generate an "intermediate frequency" (IF) signal < 1549135100 630981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to reduce the input to intermediate frequency as quickly as possible < 1549135140 898448 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the RF signal has frequency w_0 and the LO has frequency w_1 then you get IF at w_0 - w_1, plus another at w_0 + w_1 which is ignored < 1549135160 389569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos(w_0 * t) * cos(w_1 * t) = (cos((w_0 + w_1) *t) + cos((w_0 - w_1)*t))/2 < 1549135164 491307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a trig identity < 1549135170 191257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not so much ignored as filtered out < 1549135186 214387 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549135192 841220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sum frequency is so high that your IF circuitry likely can't transmit it at all, and even if it could you'd just stick a low-pass filter on it < 1549135208 395230 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're sampling then you always need to LPF an ADC input or else you get aliasing < 1549135211 397096 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1549135216 552843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :filtering out RF (the sum frequency) from IF (the difference frequency) is trivial < 1549135218 565222 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: with me so far? < 1549135305 928319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1549135365 164936 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next question is how to multiply two analog signals, and this seemed mysterious to me for a long time < 1549135379 166538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can actually use any nonlinear component < 1549135383 279725 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example a diode < 1549135406 879055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a diode has an exponential current vs. voltage response < 1549135417 278104 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has an x^2 term in its taylor series < 1549135428 189417 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course (a + b)^2 = a^2 + b^2 + 2ab < 1549135449 748969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1549135553 560119 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the last thing is, by shifting the spectrum around w_1 down to be centered at 0, you now have both positive and negative frequencies in your IF signal < 1549135563 24276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course cos(x) = cos(-x) so those will alias < 1549135570 105122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is "quadrature sampling" < 1549135606 86350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mix the signal with cos(w_1 * t), and a separate copy with sin(w_1*t) (or cos(w_1*t + pi/2) if you prefer) < 1549135622 76369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is called I/Q sampling (in-phase vs. quadrature) < 1549135639 890250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those values are conveniently represented as complex numbers < 1549135664 76961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, while the RF signal is real-valued, the IF signal is complex-valued < 1549135688 462037 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can fourier transform complex-valued signal just fine < 1549135707 415351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's how a superheterodyne radio works, and the stuff about digital sampling describes how a software-defined radio works < 1549135719 120858 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was mostly talking in terms of receiving there but the same idea applies in reverse for transmission < 1549135858 119303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1549135915 132650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. fancy < 1549135915 551650 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549135965 59247 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1549135966 621680 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you like < 1549136373 401212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: all that sounds like it both needs a lot of simple electronic components, and that it's probably impossible to actually implement from components that exist in the real world rather then theoretical idealized components < 1549136396 443623 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice we know that it's not so, because people have built radios and televisions when electronics was primitive < 1549136403 357490 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is how most modern radios work < 1549136405 399405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not impossible < 1549136411 924798 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are a ton of details in going from theory to practice < 1549136435 107254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: modern radios can use modern electronics, which have a lot of components in a single chip, so that's sort of different < 1549136447 427584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :old radios did not work this way < 1549136453 552051 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the superhet was invented in 1918 < 1549136463 974893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, all you need for a mixer is a diode < 1549136470 148059 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all you need for filters is inductors and capacitors < 1549136496 280648 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all you need for an amplifier or a local oscillator is a few vacuum tubes and some other simpler components < 1549136507 7120 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course radios back then were not doing digital sampling < 1549136514 896758 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were doing analog demodulation of AM or FM < 1549136518 151694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's also not too hard < 1549136519 810664 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially AM < 1549136583 854948 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal radios seem to be god damn magic to people. < 1549136599 315527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build an AM radio with passives and a single diode < 1549136608 800282 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no external power besides the incoming signal < 1549136638 348646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's been old radios built from just vacuum tubes, with no semiconductor < 1549136638 843793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and solid state diodes existed long before the modern semiconductor era < 1549136685 853932 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a diode with a small wire contacting a lead sulfide crystal, or a graphite contact on a specially treated razor blade < 1549136700 524896 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up foxhole radios < 1549136702 433175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no external power? isn't that only possible with near field, which is limited to a few ten meters from an AM antenna? < 1549136716 167655 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are semiconductors, but not in the modern fabricated doped silicon sense < 1549136728 327788 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exhibit semiconducting physics but are made out of simple readily available materials < 1549136738 56923 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, any EM wave has power by definition < 1549136750 416272 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, you can pick up AM signals pretty far away provided you have a reasonable antenna. < 1549136767 239646 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a far field AM broadcast doesn't have much power but it has enough to power high-impedance earpiece < 1549136770 243772 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(faintly) < 1549136774 435995 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a crystal set kit as a kid < 1549136775 936060 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1549136799 286534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you clarify what "pretty far away" and "reasonable antenna" mean? < 1549136810 490188 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable antenna = few meters long wire < 1549136846 879024 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the placement matters < 1549136849 37261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the near field for AM radios extends to about a kilometer, so "few ten meters" was an underestimate < 1549136850 245944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably above any obstructions < 1549136850 748629 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :positioned at a reasonably high elevation or in the path of a broadcast, which usually means "be in the giant bubble of reception". < 1549136899 546471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM stations put out tens of thousands of watts < 1549136903 852122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's a problem for us hams < 1549136919 692841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they create interference on other nearby bands < 1549136933 808923 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it requires an extremely small amount of power to make audible noise in a headphone stuck into your ear < 1549136957 982604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a passive filter on my SDR which blocks AM broadcast band before it goes into the other circuitry (which could create intermodulation products) < 1549136961 304015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, but there aren't many such bands. I think there's only one AM radio station remaining that's broadcast from Hungary. < 1549136975 170928 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? there's AM radio all over the USA < 1549136979 895876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is here to stay probably, at 540 kHz, to serve stuff abroad < 1549136982 147297 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey j4cbo fancy seeing you here < 1549136987 913350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you thinking of longwave specifically? < 1549136989 983969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is *all over* Hungary and more < 1549136994 389547 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1549137006 816667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think so. I think it's called middle wave < 1549137010 547840 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :540 is the very bottom of the MW (normal broadcast AM) range < 1549137012 784571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :540 kHz frequency < 1549137014 915664 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, yes < 1549137027 171471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :longwave is older < 1549137036 464823 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd believe that hungary only has one station b/c it's a small country < 1549137044 620647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it used to have more < 1549137054 803349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two about a decade ago, and more before < 1549137090 453825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got rid of them because FM radio, digital television, satellite, and internet superceded it < 1549137152 294393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think terrestrial analog television broadcasts in Hungary used AM sound, and lived slightly longer than any but that one AM radio station < 1549137177 846140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not really sure, I think most of them actually used FM sound < 1549137181 387279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how that works < 1549137216 872881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be multiple television bands, and one of them used FM sound between the two FM radio frequency ranges, but I'm not sure if that was the most common analog television band < 1549137291 406602 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still hundreds of AM stations in the USA though < 1549137309 427329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 540 kHz radio broadcast is kept mostly because it serves neighboring countries where it may be difficult to buy FM radio bands < 1549137315 18400 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly sports, religious, and talk radio (predominantly right wing assholes) < 1549137332 768995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in what frequency range are those hundreds? < 1549137335 255194 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :also traffic alerts and the like < 1549137346 805956 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah there are low power local stations when you like approach a bridge or w/e < 1549137349 132445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: and at most how many are there receivable in any one location? < 1549137377 700062 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 540-1600 < 1549137388 391249 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: depends on location obviously, in a big city maybe 10 < 1549137393 710818 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle o' nowhere one or two < 1549137411 609094 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the music's on FM of course < 1549137424 157753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549137436 951272 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hungary uses DVB-T so audio and video are digital < 1549137440 350782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the internet says that there are more than one active AM radio stations in Hungary < 1549137441 208528 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the legacy analog TV was PAL < 1549137445 262714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the others are less powerful < 1549137474 625150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, they stopped the analog television broadcasts several days ago, to free up frequencies especially for digital television < 1549137504 681665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :analog radio is still used, but it's mostly on the western FM frequencies < 1549137527 66269 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://www.theradiosource.com/images/fas6000-icon2018.png < 1549137541 712842 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is failing me but I'm guessing PAL sound is FM on a subcarrier, like NTSC < 1549137546 763482 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :my car doesn't even have an AM radio < 1549137573 463908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's tricky, they modulate the mono sound and the stereo term differently < 1549137583 657471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the same is done for FM broadcast audio < 1549137585 979528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1549137593 56697 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you send the sum of the channels, and then the difference on a subcarrier < 1549137597 427129 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a mono receiver gets the sum < 1549137602 745274 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of AM/FM radios can also tune TV audio < 1549137603 893217 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1549137607 310361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's mentioned shortwave yet! < 1549137610 262079 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortwave isn't dead! < 1549137616 956906 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've received all kinds of fun stuff at my house < 1549137625 666810 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :including cuban numbers stations from the other side of the continent < 1549137632 919489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how long ago? < 1549137639 666247 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also public broadcast programs from asia < 1549137646 230881 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: pretty much every time i've tried in the past year < 1549137657 581561 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a cheap SDR setup? < 1549137659 411155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a cheap SDR setup < 1549137663 424400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :received is certainly true, I've received radio on short wave and long wave within my life < 1549137670 897138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using consumer radio equipment < 1549137690 135548 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am licensed to transmit 1,500 watts on the nearby ham HF frequencies < 1549137691 751133 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549137701 359992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and analog television too < 1549137742 129769 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hams transmit TV sometimes, but you can only do full motion tV on the higher frequncy bands due to bandwidth limits < 1549137752 41725 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mostly "slow scan TV" which is really sending still images, slowly < 1549137823 789327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for single diode, there are anecdotes that there have been messed up metal amalgam tooth fillings or braces or something that accidentally worked as a near field AM radio if the wearer went close enough to the high powered 540 kHz radio tower near Solt, but I don't know if this is true < 1549137893 792877 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1549137894 928258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, and some hobby quadcopter people send analog television from a camera on their small flying machines to the ground < 1549137895 714549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it < 1549137905 192498 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah! FPV quadcopter < 1549137907 666477 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds super fun < 1549137913 142389 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usually on 2.4 or 5 GHz < 1549137916 718566 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :range is limited < 1549137982 361901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works because you can get pretty close to the Solt radio tower on a paved road < 1549138019 667286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a very high broadcast power, especially in the day < 1549138019 863494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have any shortwave bands radio but do have AM and FM. I sometimes listen to the CBC radio (including today), on 690 kHz AM radio. < 1549138021 842457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1549138032 700652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they decreased it some years ago, but it's still relatively high < 1549138043 678341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I see < 1549138091 224477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to listen to the 540 kHz Kossuth back long ago, but these days it has better FM broadcasts so it's no longer necessary unless you're receiving from outside Hungary < 1549138115 334721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also listen to it on internet, but that doesn't make the AM broadcast redundant) < 1549138181 258679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :poland for a long time operated a longwave station for the polish community abroad < 1549138224 521875 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the warsaw radio mast was the tallest structure in the world 1974 - 1991 < 1549138225 938542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, https://www.ahrt.hu/hu/100-mhz-es-kozephullam confirms that there are multiple AM broadcasts done by Antenna Hungária alone. AH doesn't handle all FM broadcasts, so there might be more, but there probably aren't. < 1549138227 429533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it collapsed :( < 1549138248 985584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortwave can reach further than longwave, but not reliably as it's dependent on ionospheric conditions < 1549138263 674667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they also have digital radio broadcasts, but I've never seen a digital radio receiver that wasn't built into a television < 1549138282 599289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an 11 year sunspot cycle which affects that, and is currently at a minimum < 1549138291 919765 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right now long distance ham stuff is harder than it will be in a few years < 1549138297 43155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: my car receives digital radio < 1549138304 1515 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have multiple broadcasts per ferquency < 1549138308 902191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and muchbetter quality < 1549138312 315647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the digital radio broadcast is still sort of experimental < 1549138316 679376 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily hear when it switches from analog to digital < 1549138318 298288 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1549138341 622784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. if you wanna see something really weird, it is possible to build a diode and even a triode using FIRE http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/flame-amp/flameamp.htm < 1549138350 55544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's like a vacuum tube, without the vacuum or the tube < 1549138389 629493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FM radio is very well spread because these days they put it in many mobile phones < 1549138417 83665 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549138417 793680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they can do because you need only a very small antenna and a small chip < 1549138422 517660 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :im' not sure how many people use that < 1549138429 623928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use it < 1549138429 747264 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they typically use the headphone cable as an antenna? < 1549138437 662826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually, but not exclusively < 1549138459 497356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still possible without a headphone, but most mobile phones don't support that < 1549138462 873090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so it seems < 1549138482 425964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works with any headphone cable, no need for any fancy addition in it < 1549138488 905609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so third party headphones work too < 1549138496 803444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wired ones obviously < 1549138500 840618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bluetooth ones < 1549138520 45532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549138520 921862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1549138527 158973 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need any different headphone cable though < 1549138527 909273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use it because I always carry a mobile phone anyway, so this lets me receive radio easily < 1549138537 561378 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a wire < 1549138546 202249 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a few wires wired together, but you can deal with that easily enough < 1549138552 91006 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never used it tho < 1549138556 676305 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should install the app < 1549138558 101054 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for emergencies < 1549138565 779939 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my portable ham radio could receive FM broadcast :( < 1549138573 979734 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old one did, but the new one is better in a lot of ways, but can't do that :( < 1549138591 975698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549138596 497161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can receive weather radio tho < 1549138599 70022 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can also buy a separate tiny FM radio that doesn't include a mobile phone < 1549138604 351326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cheaper than a mobile phone < 1549138627 743302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't use much battery either < 1549138636 623273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used those before they put them in mobile phones < 1549138663 488178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want a portable radio that can receive AM too, not only FM. And preferably also other bands < 1549138676 89453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: AM is harder because it needs a larger antenna < 1549138689 665572 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah but i carry the ham radio every day and don't want to carry another radio < 1549138695 347675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wife's parents are here, bbl < 1549138706 705363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how tiny is your ham radio? < 1549138727 454833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a yaesu ft-60r < 1549138729 797085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, with the lower frequency it would, I suppose, but you can have a antenna that you can extend when needed and collapse when it is not in use. < 1549138730 288035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal walkie talkie size < 1549138755 116885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: right, and FM radios are significantly smaller than that, so you could attach the two and get a device that does both < 1549138841 813753 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they? < 1549138864 946071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure, but I think you need a wire coil over a decimeter in diameter with both ends connected to the radio to get an AM antenna: that fit easily in old portable radios, but you can't really fit them in a mobile phone < 1549138894 142916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, if you allow for the headphone wire as an antenna as with a mobile phone < 1549138902 534806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is fine; I don't have a mobile phone < 1549138913 487639 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: link? < 1549138934 666717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me try to find one on ebay < 1549138951 715177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to own one before ebay existed, but I can't link to that < 1549139075 182536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently these days they're built together with music players that play from either a micro-SD card or a soldered-on solid state memory, and they have a small battery charged by USB < 1549139133 615834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find one that includes a clear picture to show its size < 1549139151 510998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is a comedian the same as a median? <-- hm yes it would appear so < 1549139394 397482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.ebay.com/itm/121963260758 at least includes a picture clearly showing the USB A port connector on it < 1549139465 812897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is not ideal, because it probably has a rather short battery life, but ones with a non-rechargable button battery and a longer life used to exist < 1549139797 423590 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/173405038518 is battery-powered, is of size 0.09x0.04, and does AM middle wave too, which sort of proves me wrong about the large coil < 1549139803 352863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ < 1549139814 419577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable radio that receives AM < 1549139820 833655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1549139823 619327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses headphone, doesn't include speaker < 1549139856 544231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a bit larger if you include the size of a headphone and cable < 1549140317 669201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/170850268747 is a rather small FM one that can be powered from non-rechargable batteries < 1549140339 256114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how to find one with a small non-rechargable battery though < 1549140344 841077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I think those used to exist < 1549140550 996669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263754834261 is a smaller AM/FM one < 1549140557 594353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more expensive < 1549140708 917405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/183264250655 is an AM/FM one that's both small and cheap < 1549140801 202040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably exist one somewhere that doesn't include a built-in battery or battery holder but takes only external power, which is what you'd want for combining in an existing HAM radio, and it's possible that you can get one from one of the consumer ones sold on ebay by forcibly cutting off the battery compartment < 1549140827 459843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly by cutting off the battery compartment and attaching an antenna < 1549140852 275354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily the ones I linked above, there are more variations of these on ebay < 1549141598 937943 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549141946 776181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some variant of rule of Scrabble. One is that the next letter to be drawn is exposed to both players (even if it is not your turn), but if you have to draw more than one letter still only one is exposed. < 1549142585 649609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm. IIRC that works differently from M:tG, because in M:tG if there's a static effect that reveals the top of a library, and its owner draws multiple cards from it, then each of them will be revealed on the library < 1549142822 319406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't come up often, because those static effects don't occurr on common cards, and there are very few uncommons that use it < 1549142871 252921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Goblin Spy < 1549142872 49540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goblin Spy \ R \ Creature -- Goblin Rogue \ 1/1 \ Play with the top card of your library revealed. \ IN-U \ \ Goblin Spymaster \ 2R \ Creature -- Goblin Rogue \ 2/1 \ First strike \ At the beginning of each opponent's end step, that player creates a 1/1 red Goblin creature token with "Creatures you control attack each combat if able." \ C16-R < 1549142885 813173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Lantern of Insight < 1549142886 533673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lantern of Insight \ 1 \ Artifact \ Players play with the top card of their libraries revealed. \ {T}, Sacrifice Lantern of Insight: Target player shuffles their library. \ 5DN-U < 1549143070 600522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think there's any simple effect that makes just your opponent play with the top card of their library revealed < 1549143145 21849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549143327 541597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what an enchantment with just "Opponents play with their hand and the top card of their library revealed." would cost. It would probably cost something between U and 1UUU, but I don't know how much. < 1549144155 601827 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d96a:5981:90e:b839 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549144784 108153 :Bob!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549144854 746785 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:701f:b8bf:f1aa:da6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549144938 606932 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:3928:f4a:8814:b90f JOIN :#esoteric < 1549145033 558824 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:701f:b8bf:f1aa:da6 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1549145062 555787 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549145754 8260 :wumpus1!~Thunderbi@2604:3d09:137f:d400:40a1:64ab:4d35:9670 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549149176 546459 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549151053 415247 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549151116 748450 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1549152626 832351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59699&oldid=59686 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+471) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ Talking past each other? > 1549152765 571050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59700&oldid=59699 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+3) 10sub- < 1549153187 101098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395 the game of life perl code is probably the obfuscated code I'm the most proud of < 1549153256 397094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear, there are a few other good ones I wrote < 1549153258 48357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's close < 1549153552 35702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :others include https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=813859 catalan numbers with regexen, https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=863110 GF(128) < 1549153689 703652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, this one is evil. I barely remembered it. https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1032776 < 1549154411 421924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549155483 529926 :wumpus1!~Thunderbi@2604:3d09:137f:d400:40a1:64ab:4d35:9670 QUIT :Quit: wumpus1 < 1549156769 264906 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549156807 426916 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549156814 122664 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.218.48 NICK :MDude < 1549156924 586760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549160871 530991 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcdyqqhxorbzuwyn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549161164 736971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sin has the property that sin(x) ~ x for small x, which is pg < 1549161554 839492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it doesn't have a "co" in front of its name, is more evidence that it's the fundamental one. < 1549161568 205245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one is more fundamental, products or coproducts? < 1549161996 418656 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the f decided the “kilogram” was a base unit < 1549162005 601430 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a prefix! < 1549162056 822662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you'd prefer to use the millikilogram? < 1549162408 538608 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used to see micromicrofarads on schematics < 1549162490 535352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since mass = energy = distance = time, what unit should we use to measure all of them? < 1549162589 774005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planck units < 1549162621 488305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1549163621 546368 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ytwqhawbpxfmxyhw JOIN :#esoteric > 1549164429 121364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex/test114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59701 5* 03Cortex 5* (+31) 10Redirected page to [[User:Cortex/test2]] > 1549164450 351044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex/test214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59702 5* 03Cortex 5* (+31) 10Redirected page to [[User:Cortex/test1]] > 1549165159 289654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59703&oldid=59698 5* 03A 5* (+321) 10 < 1549165221 543934 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: c = 1 < 1549165242 993577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1549165304 373393 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units < 1549165321 172489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's why you get one unit for all of those. < 1549165324 449434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is which one. < 1549165336 327684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess Planck length or whatever is as good as anything. > 1549165622 334436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59704&oldid=59703 5* 03A 5* (-13) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program, where CR stands for the carriage return character */ > 1549165749 852104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59705&oldid=59704 5* 03A 5* (+189) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549165781 696578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59706&oldid=59705 5* 03A 5* (-51) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program, where CR stands for the carriage return character */ > 1549165987 646729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59707&oldid=59706 5* 03A 5* (+64) 10 < 1549167728 346287 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549167928 273398 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549179847 280578 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549184547 567349 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ytwqhawbpxfmxyhw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549189561 399962 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1549191936 726792 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1549191949 447478 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about data compression < 1549191965 833395 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most compression formats are designed to compress data reasonably well and do it efficiently < 1549192009 317248 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if there's a (non lossy) compression technique which you can basically leave it arbitrarily long and it will compress better and better (of course this will have diminishing returns) < 1549192640 557812 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549194068 534046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549194084 91518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: you need to distinguish between compression /formats/ and compression /encoders/ < 1549194120 436573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any format will have some maximally dense representation of the input, but for suffiiciently complex formats (and sufficiently complex is not very complex), typical encoders won't be able to find it < 1549194136 165071 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Kolmogorov complexity ) < 1549194138 436551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you're looking for is an encoder that puts in extra effort looking for particularly short representations of the input, but can be stopped at any time < 1549194208 60690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extreme is when the compression format is TC, in which case it'll be within a linear transformation of any other format in efficiency (and within a constant-sized offset if it can read literals encoded using the entire alphabet of the character set with no escaping) < 1549194225 360489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what Kolmogorov complexity measures, i.e. the shortest possible program that generates the output you want < 1549194235 92006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finding /that/ is likely to be impossible in the general case < 1549194264 867064 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549194265 557681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm "likely"? < 1549194352 430226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the Church-Turing thesis turns out to be false, it could be possible < 1549194358 538330 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rice's theorem should give you an impossibility result... < 1549194368 775463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I didn't consider that angle. True. < 1549194372 264456 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549194541 936739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549194637 363808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the TC encoding gives you something recursively enumerable (the program+data that you provide is supposed to terminate with the decompressed data as output) so it does fit into rain1's description... you can enumerate basically forever, finding better and better encodings along the way, until eventually you reach a best one. You never know when to stop, of course. < 1549194678 264313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's completely infeasible. < 1549194714 447307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you don't really need anything near TC to meet the distinction. Even when you're compressing large real world images to PNG, you have a choice to compress slower but get a smaller file, or compress faster but get a larger file. I've experienced that all too much at my previous job, when working with images. < 1549194744 505683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549194781 990881 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, brotli was a good demonstration of that phenomenon. < 1549194785 213403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same happens when you're compressing stuff with a sane modern compressor like 7z -- not really when you're compressing with the ancient gzip format, we have encoders that are good and as fast as you go with gzip. < 1549194839 958762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use 7z a -mx=3 foo.7z to compress fast, or 7z a -mx=5 foo.7z to compress normally (-mx=5 is actually the default for 7z output), or 7z a -mx=0 to not compress at all. < 1549194846 9854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hmm, or which was the zlib compatible compressor that traded compression speed for size? I may be mixing those up.) < 1549194870 679827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, admittedly with gzip you still have an option to not compress at all, and that is faster < 1549194890 999457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nope, you get 7z which compresses gzip both slightly better and slightly faster < 1549194917 21553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zopfli is it < 1549194917 537198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the problem with gzip is that it's really old, the tradeoff built into it is that you could compress worse if you have very little RAM, but these days nobody has that little RAM < 1549194935 633627 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other Swiss bakery product) < 1549194989 251928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Under default settings, the output of Zopfli is typically 3–8% smaller than zlib's maximum compression, but takes around 80 times longer." < 1549195070 142204 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe PNG was the main target, as you basically wrote.) < 1549195145 995558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah I had not heard of Guetzli. < 1549195257 878548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What does "little RAM" mean nowadays... a 256MB VPS? < 1549195316 80702 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(up from, I guess, less than 64kb when zlib was developed) < 1549195686 258351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found 128MB VPS offers, and talk about 64MB VPS offers but no live specimens... < 1549195964 401975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: PNG is a bit more complicated, it has both a zlib layer, and a transformation layer before it, but suret < 1549196206 269734 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549196439 902455 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549199231 801316 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549199239 384006 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549199318 324178 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549199334 386646 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit < 1549199334 743514 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549199337 866892 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit < 1549199358 412050 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549202071 45432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen. < 1549202073 233489 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen. < 1549202747 799179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 83{.'eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen.0123456789' < 1549202748 445404 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen < 1549202789 221469 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done < 1549203207 864166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1549203212 775192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190203.html < 1549203213 636246 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190203.html: b_jonas < 1549204167 416298 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549204206 292754 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549204358 736712 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-isqvgvkslqaeypri JOIN :#esoteric < 1549204485 831281 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549204511 273120 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549205522 364510 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549207902 247412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-93.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549208551 404071 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you consider an integral part of df-likes < 1549210150 258432 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549210591 627165 :Mediphira!~Mediphira@136.0.0.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549210597 501659 :Mediphira!~Mediphira@136.0.0.107 PART :#esoteric < 1549211067 910608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :df = swarf fortress? < 1549211086 660736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s/d/ < 1549211111 723237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :` df / < 1549211112 366041 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1549211121 45539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`df / < 1549211121 678741 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 0 0 0 - / < 1549211324 966393 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1549211364 15642 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what comes to my mind is high level of simulation and a macro-managing spectator < 1549211374 713697 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do find that pretty vague < 1549211391 635685 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas i do have quite some points for roguelikes < 1549216004 235278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549216396 854810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549216975 767179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's a little odd. < 1549217000 954787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per df, on HackEso there's nothing mounted at /, just in specific subdirectories. < 1549217036 226395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which probably just follows from /proc/mounts. But it's still a bit odd. < 1549217064 538895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $(cut -d\ -f2 /proc/mounts) < 1549217065 401316 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin /usr /dev /lib /sbin /lib64 /hackenv /hackenv/.hg /etc/alternatives /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib /tmp /proc /sys < 1549217089 231930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` df /bin < 1549217090 28326 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ none 24733776 10662056 12802216 46% /bin < 1549217125 912173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reflecting the filesystem where it's actually coming from. < 1549217137 399002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls / < 1549217138 319178 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ sbin \ srv \ sys \ tmp \ usr < 1549217143 394493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he I didn't expect /etc/alternatives < 1549217157 951062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect it to be a /mount point/ < 1549217160 312327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call umlbox with --base-mounts --mount lib --translate-write /hackenv ... --translate /hackenv/.hg ... --cwd /hackenv. < 1549217166 699945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably that makes it writable when most of /etc is read-only? < 1549217173 600915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's read-only still. < 1549217183 261882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mount points have to be over existent directories, anyway? < 1549217186 558334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so you'd need /something/ at / < 1549217186 597836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's mounted because some commands in /usr go through symlink in /etc/alternatives. < 1549217191 813466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. that's what I meant. but it makes sense if you aim to borrow as much as possible from a surrounding system < 1549217192 417841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you mount on top of a nonexistent directory? < 1549217206 211233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` update-alternatives --config editor < 1549217207 22910 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for editor < 1549217235 750731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso has no installed editors? < 1549217237 473083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full conents of etc: https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.24182 < 1549217319 1759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for mounts, yes, it needs to be into an existing directory, umlbox creates the target directory (recursively) when it mounts somthing. < 1549217330 905857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a root file system, apparently it's just too special to show up in /proc/mounts. < 1549217358 497769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's an initrd read from a cpio archive on kernel boot.) < 1549217387 521723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it makes some sense, it's not like there's really a device node for that. < 1549217392 106023 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a bit weird... if you have a chroot like container, / may not be a mount point according to /proc/mounts. < 1549217411 463123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because the root filesystem is /below/ / < 1549217414 317327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus you can't see the mount point < 1549217437 322084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is different, though: the command isn't running in a chroot. < 1549217449 859550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a container? < 1549217460 290646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, the program is running under the UML kernel. < 1549217470 921729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From that perspective, there are no containers involved, there's nothing below /. < 1549217479 362867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm reminded of when you have a shell running in a directory all of whose names have been deleted < 1549217482 894535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell can get rather confused < 1549217511 200284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, simply deleting the name for the directory that the shell knows could be enough) < 1549217520 490656 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So UML is lying about its root file system. Yay :) < 1549217522 451401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole VFS abstraction is that of the UML kernel, and it starts from / which is an initrd, on top of which have been mounted stuff from the host system under the special "hostfs" thing. < 1549217555 365933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that's how initrd always works. On normal systems / usually gets pivoted into some real filesystem on a block device. < 1549217634 851500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you rarely get to actually experience the initrd environment. < 1549217720 782612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that experience recently... but no working keyboard, so I didn't get the chance to actually explore... < 1549217801 264348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I later realized that I do still have a PS/2 keyboard which would have worked... but by then I had resolved my problem, which was udev not initializing the host controller or something similarly desastrous.) < 1549217831 506494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no host controller -> no USB, no SATA, no root device... no system boot.) < 1549217901 503791 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1549218070 442957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the container (using systemd-nspawn) where the UML kernel runs, seems like there's an entry in /proc/mounts that says /dev/vda2 is mounted as /, even though that's really just the /var/lib/machines/dysnomia directory of that filesystem. But it's a separate mount namespace, which I think is a little different from a chroot. < 1549218094 674825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount namespaces are more thorough than chroots < 1549222477 474143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549223510 668912 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1549223659 479866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sollyucko 5* 10New user account < 1549225347 82490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1549226420 849137 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone recommend an OSS project I might enjoy contributing to that has a predominantly non-US user/contributor/maintainerbase? < 1549226439 710861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549226660 437616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : who the f decided the “kilogram” was a base unit <-- iirc it was done because if you use the gram, a lot of the derived units get very inconvenient size scales - so it was either adding a kilo- to that one, or other prefixes to a lot of others. < 1549226694 119859 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or using the centimeter as a base unit. < 1549226713 165797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, there was that < 1549226747 677893 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though honestly many of those derived units were inconvenient. < 1549226753 365900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have given a new name to the kilogram. like, call it a "ton" or a "pound" or an "ounce" or something. < 1549226777 305464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a "euro", that word was still free back then, they'd have priority < 1549226777 851925 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgs! < 1549226783 980037 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used cgs in undergrad E&M < 1549226788 911170 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little wacky < 1549226799 218658 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously then we'd end up having to have a currency with a bad name, like "european union kilogram" or something < 1549226804 432313 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the units don't directly correspond to SI because the physical constants are folded in differently < 1549226811 549084 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit tricky though, since the derived units only started getting used much by the time the kilogram was already well-established. < 1549226814 140011 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilogrexit < 1549226825 278867 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring back micromicrofarads < 1549226875 154782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, I know. they have units with square root of meter times square root of second in them < 1549226895 876695 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an important measure in EE which is like dB / sqrt(Hz) < 1549226911 432147 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it V / sqrt(Hz) < 1549226914 527478 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for noise < 1549226969 206684 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ohms per square” is a good one < 1549227116 849368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but CGS is internally consistent, so it's at least better than measuring blood pressure in micrometers of mercury, car speed in kilometers per hour, electricity bill in kilowatt hour, airplane height in feet, airplane distance in miles, < 1549227137 932788 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nautical miles < 1549227155 482711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549227185 653543 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes aviation uses statute miles < 1549227215 311898 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes it uses feet < 1549227219 202885 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reasons < 1549227242 407787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes meters or kilometers < 1549227321 622833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :blood hormone levels are measured in units like pg/mL and ng/dL < 1549227321 849417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we have food energy in kilocalories, astronomical distances within the solar system in astronomical units, outside the solar system in light years, < 1549227349 668348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think kWh was stupid, and especially kWh/day, but they are very convenient in practice < 1549227355 958584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with Wh vs J < 1549227395 831040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the phone bill counts call lengths in minutes < 1549227398 479196 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kWh/day is nice because it implies that it’s an average instead of instantaneous < 1549227440 943756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't know what kind of project you would enjoy to contributing to. And by non-US what country you may mean? Some projects (such as my own) currently have only myself as contribution/maintenance and I am Canadian. But I don't know if that is what you want or not. Nor am I sure how to find out. < 1549227453 243128 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking larger projects < 1549227455 855707 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: yeah < 1549227524 297909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much of larger projects about if it is predominantly non-US or not. (Unless you can read/write in languages other than English, in which case you might more easily find some) < 1549227627 819201 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words "ton", "pound", "ounce" mean different units than kilogram. However, there is another word for kilogram is "grave" < 1549227670 360085 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a metric ton is the same as a Mg < 1549227692 674095 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, although I don't like the term "metric ton" or "tonne". I prefer to call that a "megagram" < 1549227701 722556 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what unit's really annoying? "mil" i.e. 1/1000 in < 1549227713 190483 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used in electronics and locksmithing and some other fields < 1549227722 6758 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i prefer "thou" to avoid confusiong with mm < 1549227796 193869 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that’s a weird one < 1549227819 794662 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 mil trace, 6 mil plastic sheeting, 6 thou tolerance < 1549227852 67361 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :also “tenth” apparently means 0.0001in < 1549227862 840121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It should be obvious to know what "megagram" means even if you have not seen it before. I used "megagram" before I have seen it used, too. This is contrary to "tonne" which I don't like.) < 1549227893 101595 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess puts it in the same group as “fifth” and “eighth” of fractional words that have a specific meaning c.c < 1549227914 66968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you care if the OSS project is predominantly non-US? < 1549227935 245404 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story < 1549227941 43452 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so never mind that < 1549227943 839431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1549230570 1953 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automata are not a good model for general turing complete computation because they require infinite space. network automata/communicating automata are, however, because they only require unbounded queues. < 1549230668 160662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, I've heard of those US units. < 1549230724 86910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: what's the important difference? you can easily emulate a TM with an unbounded queue < 1549230727 59238 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or two stacks, but not one) < 1549230745 413621 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any point in time only a finite number of TM / CA cells are non-blank < 1549230751 326110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as only a finite number of elements exist in the queue < 1549230770 886951 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do network automata work < 1549230901 147355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a rule that would set all CA cells to something non-blank. But it'd still be a finite amount of information. < 1549231016 688125 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's my point. imagine you were to simulate a cellular automata with infinite space. you'd need to start at the "top left" of the world (assuming a 2D CA), and you'd need to traverse to the "bottom right", but in order for you to encode a turing machine within a CA, it needs to have the ability to propagate to the bottom-right, right? < 1549231041 247328 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, blank cells have the potential to become non-blank cells, which means we need to traverse every cell naively. < 1549231062 884722 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means a single update, again naively, of a CA with infinite space... never completes. < 1549231083 714674 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that's the most naive algorithm < 1549231094 672284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no top left of an infinite grid, so you can't start there < 1549231106 462661 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can easily keep track of a bound on the non-blank region of each timestep < 1549231115 104719 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and expand it by the window size on each iteration < 1549231126 953792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make it infinite only in one direction then there can be one top left < 1549231130 939562 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I take the turing machine model. turing originally specified that his tape was left-bounded, right-unbounded. < 1549231139 370037 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :same applies to a theoretical turing-complete CA < 1549231154 601696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I missed the first half of the conversation < 1549231163 350325 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: right. you could totally do that. but that implies some extra information than _just_ the things you need to simulate the CA. < 1549231185 184610 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you're saying that queue automata are slightly easier to implement than TMs / CAs < 1549231188 186638 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I guess I agree < 1549231191 478744 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't seem very important < 1549231194 18414 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you need to keep track of how much of that space you realistically need to cover. < 1549231210 307898 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: were you trying to explain HashLife sometime? < 1549231222 594269 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how it works < 1549231232 564898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably? Hashlife is TG < 1549231234 779946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( he made a hash out of it ) < 1549231262 495884 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :network automata are essentially CAs (if you see CAs as networks of finite state machines that can read neighboring people's states), but the difference is each cell has a queue (or a pair of queues) sitting between it and its neighboring cells. < 1549231263 560595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-out < 1549231275 408339 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smoke hashlife erryday < 1549231283 576105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't explain it on this scow phone keyboard, though < 1549231288 992154 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can say that the distance (or queue length) needs to be unbounded to simulate a TM, so we can make due with a finite amount of cells. < 1549231387 969685 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :network automata as informally defined above represent a generalization of both queue automata and cellular automata: you can imagine two sliders for queue length and number/topology of cells, and depending on the slider position (say, queue length 1, lattice topology, infinite cells) you either get CAs, or regular queue automata (unbounded queue, single queue, single node). < 1549231443 278046 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular queue automata with just a single queue and a single "processing node"/FSM/cell/whatever hooked up to it are an extreme case. FSMs linked in a lattice or some other topology, i.e a CA, represent another extreme case. < 1549231559 411726 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549231617 532223 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549231644 482766 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549231681 336497 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549231774 162941 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549232257 2894 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549232281 784227 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549233078 290177 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549233205 279179 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1549233554 529927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549233554 613027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549233554 613099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549234013 101033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hashlife is easier to understand with a 1D automaton, I think. < 1549234100 704996 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549234119 30914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 64-2*28 < 1549234119 630208 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 8 < 1549234198 482778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549234692 27336 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1549234777 696572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1549234778 821962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen. < 1549234783 974502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*twitch* < 1549234785 459065 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh? < 1549235460 449714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't me this time, I swear < 1549235473 278674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set last month's password, not this month's < 1549235938 778592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1{::p. 1 0 _1 _1 < 1549235939 434778 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: _0.877439j0.744862 _0.877439j_0.744862 0.754878 < 1549236141 532653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1{::p. _1 _1 0 1 < 1549236141 631553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1549236142 167906 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1.32472 _0.662359j0.56228 _0.662359j_0.56228 < 1549236148 240627 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549236184 581375 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu NICK :b_jonas < 1549236189 489659 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1{::p. _1 _1 0 1 < 1549236190 140595 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1.32472 _0.662359j0.56228 _0.662359j_0.56228 < 1549236323 61088 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549236340 742601 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549236462 133521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So say you have a 1D automaton, where every tick, every cell updates based on its state and its two neighbors. < 1549236517 401877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can store a chunk of size 2^n as a complete binary tree, where the left and right children point to chunks of size 2^(n-1) < 1549236532 965837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you just have 1 and 0 cells for the 2^0 case. < 1549236631 528956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashlife calls that a "macro cell". < 1549236677 716433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These things are immutable, so you can make it a graph instead of a tree with sharing. That's the "hash" in "hashlife". < 1549236732 935292 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called a "macro cell" because it's a bit like a big cell. In particular, it has two neighbors, and its state after one tick depends only on its own state and the state of its two neighbors. < 1549236836 842912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the nice thing about macro cells is that after a small number of ticks, most of the internal cells don't depend on the state of the neighboring cells, because information can only propagate at the "speed of light". < 1549236850 552264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? trillion < 1549236851 549202 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :trillion? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549236889 497198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can compute part of the future of a macro cell in isolation, regardless of its environment. (This is useful because macro cells are shared, so they might exist in multiple environments.) < 1549236908 662440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that part make sense? < 1549237143 89009 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? organ < 1549237144 113367 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :organ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549237157 601436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549237360 78227 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: uh-oh. < 1549237427 795235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg password < 1549237429 362930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11708:2019-02-03 learn The password of the month is eigthy-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen. \ 11684:2019-01-01 learn The password of the month is "overreachtorridbittenmandible". \ 11653:2018-12-01 learn The password of the month is "SCALNATUAS". \ 11646:2018-11-01 learn The password of the month is most forgettable. \ 11622:2018-10-02 learn The password of th < 1549237553 432038 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549237688 836612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: *you should be scared* < 1549237711 626779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although i fear you haven't even noticed why) < 1549237722 747860 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549237732 321332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't noticed why either. < 1549237737 922868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "." isn't part of the password, is it? < 1549237743 693935 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah so it's hash as in hash consing < 1549237748 169580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1549237753 905690 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lazy eval < 1549237770 12409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no laziness so far. < 1549237771 265270 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the idea of in place updates for data that is potentially shared < 1549237774 450468 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1549237788 502486 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1549237790 429509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some more possible variant for Scrabble can be alternate geometry, such as hex or cylinder. Some more possibilities include other kind of multipliers on squares. In addition to letter multipliers and word multipliers, can also have turn multipliers. Also, the multipliers could also be negative and/or fractions. A variation I recommend is memoryless wildcards. < 1549237790 826494 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, go on < 1549237807 725571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like memoryless wildcards variant? < 1549237816 235975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can compute some extra data for these nodes and easily compute it for the entire graph. < 1549237828 452114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example you can put a count on each node which is the sum of the counts of the left and right nodes. < 1549237841 69821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if you have 2^100 cells or something you can compute it pretty quickly. < 1549237853 438673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well the . isn't what i'm twitching at, anyway < 1549237879 814367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see it. < 1549237882 256321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the eigthy? < 1549237902 657656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1549237915 608480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's a clever trick to mitigate against dictionary attacks. < 1549237924 439105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1549237931 378648 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: count of what? < 1549237941 769856 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is there a good pseudocode of this algorithm? < 1549237951 330459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The number of active cells, sorry. < 1549237957 591111 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549237960 404087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why does that help? < 1549237982 153068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess count doesn't help but the point is that you can annotate these things with extra data based on their children. < 1549237994 791686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and another variation is that wildcards can be reclaimed if you spend a turn to replace it with the same letter tile from your hand. plus there's a scrabble-like game that requires a different hardware, < 1549238002 310813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about pseudocode. I think it's best explained by drawing. < 1549238038 442350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can stack a tile over another tile, only the letters written on the top tile on each square must valid words in every segment, and the scoring is changed. < 1549238043 644279 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: next month make one of these hth https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19003644 < 1549238057 552793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, I have read about the variation with reclaiming. You can even combine that with memoryless wildcards < 1549238097 817000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So if you have a macro-cell, say of size 8, [abcdefgh] < 1549238099 553706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here played bananagrams? < 1549238104 612457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have hth < 1549238108 353790 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like scrabble but with no board and also not very much like scrabble < 1549238116 342738 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think writing an AI for it would be pretty hard. I've thought about it some < 1549238130 872060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can think of uncertainty coming in from the sides tick by tick: < 1549238143 793619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdefgh < 1549238147 978693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?bcdefg? < 1549238148 354733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1549238151 601786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :??cdef?? < 1549238153 262668 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, which kind of memoryless wildcard? the one where you can count the wildcard tile as any letter of your choice after each move you make, or the one where in addition you can make it count as different letters horizontally and vertically? < 1549238153 692551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1549238173 791047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but yes, reclaiming the joker works better with memoryless joker < 1549238259 420207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The rule I was thinking of (I made up, although others may have made it up independently) is: It has to represent the same letter horizontally and vertically, but you can change what letter it is during your turn as long as it still forms a valid word. If you extend the word, the same letter must be valid in both the old and new words. < 1549238395 803806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, that's even more restricted than what I thought of < 1549238427 427124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What are the exact rules of what you thought? < 1549238469 104045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd choose the new letter each wildcard represents simultaneously with placing letters on the board, and valid words are only checked after the whole thing is done < 1549238515 217388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :each wildcard on the board that is < 1549238591 405851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I forgot to mention, with my rule, you can still change both wildcards simultaneously (so you do not need to remember what letter was originally assigned, which is the point of this rule). < 1549238625 342433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549239125 947761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I had not noticed... it's definitely not intentional. < 1549239190 335912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1549239197 433937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: cute, but not overly impressive < 1549239215 160316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wait, he hasn't gotten to the end yet < 1549239233 323537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Sure, there's not too much you can do. < 1549239247 383952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i http://bada55.cr.yp.to/ < 1549239399 464672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so... is it okay to update the potm to fix a typo? < 1549239470 327518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooch of the month?! < 1549239768 564926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :phase of the moon < 1549241490 157047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it may have been done previously < 1549241504 650145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl wisdom/password < 1549241505 457615 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password < 1549241680 311357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been corrections, although i'm not sure any of them count as typos in the password itself... < 1549241690 447088 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1549241742 374932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the "more" button no longer works for me < 1549241755 530106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*link < 1549241764 318212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's neither < 1549243904 635291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549244264 737863 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-isqvgvkslqaeypri QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549244620 426189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-17.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549245085 381377 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549245099 82427 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549252853 333627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549256363 962539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549257540 783641 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549262204 841373 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a queue's no-op operation is not immediately obvious unless your queue automata supports no-op transitions. < 1549264682 945793 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1549264683 29042 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1549264683 29093 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1549266774 392248 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-172-212-236.range86-172.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: http://corewar.co.uk < 1549267936 870389 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szjjltyvhfytyojl JOIN :#esoteric < 1549268740 213097 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549270793 953934 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549271870 465886 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549271895 728165 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549275646 452654 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szjjltyvhfytyojl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549277606 926940 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqtwuskbwdwavvsp JOIN :#esoteric < 1549278590 591931 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549278616 748122 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549280671 605321 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549280828 862010 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549280831 200923 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549282460 570488 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549282487 252495 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549291388 380875 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqtwuskbwdwavvsp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549291727 418118 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549293013 389747 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549293521 541235 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549293799 498076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549294069 505973 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549294085 415161 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549294167 40161 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd password//s=...-=hty-= < 1549294168 990361 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :password//The password of the month is eighty-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen. < 1549294197 910424 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1549295319 597261 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549296240 694295 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1549296263 714970 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549297442 295293 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-5.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549297489 983251 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549298603 661317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1549301091 874434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03FLeckami 5* 10New user account < 1549301421 211215 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like, in the absence of a 'keep' operation for queue automata, you need to expand the alphabet or 'simulated' alphabet by at least one symbol, one that indicates a 'useless' or 'marker' symbol that you seek to. < 1549303425 151082 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzwntqgsjhltmrst JOIN :#esoteric < 1549305636 836774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549306026 23147 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose that `ary' is an operator that changes the arity of the given function < 1549306051 734650 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. `ary 2 f x y' applies f to x and y < 1549306148 274321 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can `ary' replace parentheses in all cases? < 1549306333 766079 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :further, what default behaviours might be useful with this syntax < 1549306514 450304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is f just the standard arithmetic functions? actually how does that work with division then? < 1549307362 230712 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549307366 557589 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549307484 689583 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549308301 694590 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1549310194 818815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: you could probably do that with one of these crazy haskell syntax hacks, but I don't think it's a good idea because it sort of abuses the existing syntax, in the same way as the almost BASIC interpreter where you put the almost BASIC code directly as haskell code with some prelude does < 1549310571 944853 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was more envisioning it as a lisp hack < 1549310590 981160 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the parentheses out of lisp < 1549310612 854198 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing them essentially with Hollerith-Expressions < 1549311207 503923 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzwntqgsjhltmrst QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549311584 93654 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid english i mean it's got a fucking "qu" at the start can we at least pronounce that in a consistent manner? NO APPARENLY NOT, it is pronounces "kyoo" < 1549311727 310195 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549312545 343374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: "deque" is even worse < 1549314930 674755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( did you ever run out of memory when playing with a full deque... ) < 1549315033 929173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few cards short of a full deque < 1549315439 322498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know visual c++'s deque implementation uses 16-byte chunks? < 1549315456 730267 :Cale_!~cale@72.139.200.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549315678 54649 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549315680 958366 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? cache shit? < 1549315892 77713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-5.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549315919 674250 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549316255 912675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1549316278 113897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did you know p. much all of the c++ stl is scow < 1549316511 287251 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1549316513 43281 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did know that < 1549316543 763865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has a lot of properties (especially exceptions) which make it necessary to heap-allocate when you might not think you should need to < 1549316566 57013 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :making an exception safe sum type class template is really hard :/ < 1549316571 330301 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :without allocating < 1549316599 853833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that std::vector resize has to call the copy constructor on every element, then the destructor on every old element < 1549316608 676853 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if there's a noexcept move constructor it can use that) < 1549316616 341073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rust the resize is just a memcpy < 1549316714 891893 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::variant went through a LOT of iteration around that < 1549316790 622996 :Cale_!~cale@72.139.200.15 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549317291 378907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know unordered_map/set more or less specifies that hash tables have to use linked lists instead of open addressing? < 1549317324 671036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :exceptions are scow, i'm p. sure < 1549317337 757865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe destructors are scow too?? < 1549317343 867526 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549317347 903344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :re exceptions < 1549317353 512862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructors are necessary for RAII, which is great < 1549317359 376511 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think they're a necessary evil < 1549317360 429691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure RAII is great. < 1549317365 564715 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're wrong < 1549317368 441395 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :change_my_mind.jpg < 1549317374 72199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I think RAII might be the wrong thing. < 1549317391 304533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thing that runs some code at the end of a scope is great. But that doesn't mean it needs to be associated with an object. < 1549317393 902493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAII is defiitely the right thing for a systems language < 1549317403 423754 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't have to be, but it works out very nicely when it is < 1549317417 375353 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a variation on "make invalid states impossible to represent" < 1549317430 9997 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often the RAII guards have some value level content < 1549317440 414332 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Rust, the only way to access the contents of a mutex is through a raii lock object < 1549317449 193883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be more pro-RAII than I am now. I'm not sure about it. < 1549317450 665946 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus which, you can use raii with non lexical scope just as well < 1549317496 897530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also destructors are scow with arenas (?) < 1549317508 82577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arenas should be used more. But they're kind of scow in Rust. < 1549317728 911589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the objects-with-destructors-composed-of-smaller-objects-with-destructors thing is great anyway < 1549317738 204960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to write good software < 1549317760 464332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you gotta statically allocate everything < 1549318009 570511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know the C++ bug where instead ofe "{ WithLock unused_nam(lock); ... }" you write "{ WithLock(lock); ... }"? < 1549318018 77194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good bug. < 1549318051 295858 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549318070 338834 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same happens in rust < 1549318079 693558 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with either "x.lock();" or "let _ = x.lock();" < 1549318085 538255 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "let _foo = x.lock();" is fine < 1549318095 854296 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the compiler will error on the first two < 1549318097 351020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or warn < 1549318141 55621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RAII lock object is not a real object, it's a control structure. < 1549318157 853824 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't i think of it as a real object? < 1549318162 890523 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has methods, it has capabilities < 1549318170 7225 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it has extent in memory is an implementation detail < 1549318185 108628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rust it's a smart pointer, and smart pointers are definitely objects < 1549318188 946258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's the OO thing, thinking about everything as a real object. < 1549318225 313457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are its methods? < 1549318233 385336 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549318247 592053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Python you'd write "with lock: ..." or something and it would be pretty clear what's going on, with no object. < 1549318300 530259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you'd write "with foo() as x: ..." if you need an object inside the scope to do things with it. < 1549318412 405903 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i don't want to talk about this any further at the moment < 1549318466 847917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plausible < 1549318505 827934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to figure out better things for a while, it's not just criticism. < 1549319380 788812 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdkwgyxooldtygan JOIN :#esoteric < 1549319484 396365 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1549320099 813217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549323878 953507 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549324046 736850 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549324100 697346 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549327400 600320 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1549328608 80311 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdkwgyxooldtygan QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549331467 239892 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549334594 464289 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks.. < 1549334625 69891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a rare occurrence.) < 1549335754 311527 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your queue automata have states formatted like this: (state, symbol) -> (new state, [enqueue symbol/dequeue]) < 1549335788 684082 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :without 'keep', you have to add new symbols to your alphabet or new states in order to encode 'keep'. < 1549335852 778984 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can enqueue a throwaway symbol, swap to a state that seeks to that throwaway symbol, dequeue it and swap to a new state after the desired 'keep' operation. < 1549335981 718611 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :states for your queue automata still have to be a 5-tuple, too. < 1549336083 301508 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(state, symbol, new state, new symbol, enqueue/dequeue). < 1549336356 13815 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you encode them as seperate instructions... (state, symbol, new state, [enqueue 0/enqueue 1/dequeue]) < 1549336375 762802 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty standard. < 1549336424 841091 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does the automaton find out the result from dequeue < 1549336432 234621 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have (state, symbol, new state, [enqueue 0/enqueue 1/enqueue blank/dequeue]). < 1549336436 50181 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1549336463 339589 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the 'new symbol' field < 1549336479 940267 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :dequeue just throws away the top item in the queue. you already know what the item is because in order to execute the dequeue, you have to look at the top of the queue and your current state. < 1549336489 310624 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1549336497 437276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1549336616 272184 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding a 'no-op' wouldn't be too terrible either. just roll the queue until you recognize the sequence, enqueue a blank, then seek to the blank, dequeue, and you're back where you were in a new state. < 1549336627 653418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks... < 1549336979 802824 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549337117 853383 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/ON3X/text something like this. < 1549337169 860875 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whup, line 11 is wrong. that first lone `1` should be replaced with a B. < 1549340408 568875 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks... < 1549340647 882324 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still pre-occupied with the idea of the most aesthetically pleasing model of computation. I've been oscillating between queue automata and stock turing machines. < 1549340708 229571 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are essentially labeled transition systems with finite states. < 1549340724 358592 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus can be composed and stitched together fairly easily. > 1549343751 312722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59708&oldid=58023 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10Simplified my implementation > 1549353246 263564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Sifoobar 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Snigl logo.png10]]" > 1549353295 140127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59710&oldid=58475 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-48) 10 < 1549357772 959773 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549360632 922682 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. i am reading a flight booking confirmation and stumble across this diamond: "Special Services: OXYGEN" < 1549360692 428459 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: as much as possible I like to make sure when I fly I have oxygen < 1549360749 319138 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there also is "AIRLINE SUPPLIED OXYGEN - pending" < 1549362493 725234 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549364729 340222 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549364739 709987 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549366747 543617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549367207 776973 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549367376 793200 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549368374 466758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recommend extensions as you browse"... WTF, Firefox? < 1549368418 770191 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is getting too close to "display relevant ads as you browse". < 1549368781 316682 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549368973 107502 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when software tries to become too smart < 1549368974 845938 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549369010 603516 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, MUAs tend to scan your mails for mentions of attachments and warns you if you don't have any < 1549369366 806230 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to like that, but then i got to work on debuggers, and warning for 'attach' became much less useful < 1549369514 124061 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate that almost as much as i hate messengers that make sent code unreadable by automatically converting text into emojis < 1549369543 107027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been saved by the attachment feature often enough that I don't particularly mind it. < 1549369556 145492 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is a borderline case. < 1549369649 79028 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just re-send it if it really matters < 1549369667 4854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing in favor of this feature is that it's not really smart (it's just looking for a fixed set of keywords) and it's not trying to get me to download or buy anything. < 1549369732 957376 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that particular symptom is not that bad, yeah, but somehow it ended up being my goto example < 1549369776 737256 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also hate spell checkers < 1549369788 618442 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid pieces of shit < 1549369811 461314 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more fundamentally, I don't have the impression that it's trying to make decisions on my behalf. This is in stark contrast to... suggesting extensions... ads... search suggestions... etc. < 1549371442 731754 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549371458 64669 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549374236 406124 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1549374893 849370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analogia14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59711 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+4983) 10about time I defined this and put it onto the wiki > 1549374911 55165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59712&oldid=59359 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+14) 10+[[Analogia]] > 1549374928 907472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59713&oldid=59525 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+15) 10/* A */ +[[Analogia]] < 1549376167 968718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1549376590 511766 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07David Madore14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59714&oldid=57645 5* 03B jonas 5* (+120) 10 < 1549378369 206178 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how Slack isn't plaintext < 1549378419 410182 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a messenging system designed for real work shouldn't require ``` ``` around code < 1549378515 614860 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried discord, slack, and hipchat, and all of them are inferior to IRC < 1549378864 479556 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about writing an irssi-like libpurple client to better work with slack < 1549379147 167824 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i need some meta-tabs, man < 1549379183 668834 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to use slack more often, but i absolutely cannot let it flood me with like a dozen channels per group < 1549379293 68321 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even, why not have a toggle switch between "send this message plaintext" and "replace :pizza: with a picture of the ninja turtles or some shit" < 1549379438 984145 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am more okay with that way of replacing than the way msn/icq/skype/whatever other bastards do that < 1549379491 235897 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you cannot write i<8 without having an ice cream cone on the receiving end which might yield to something completely different than <8 if he copy&pastes it < 1549379510 706063 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slack replaces <3 with heart < 1549379634 791000 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you copypaste that, you get :heart: < 1549379667 475416 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the actual heart emoji < 1549379975 713852 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sveopnqzjspigoxk JOIN :#esoteric > 1549380229 386397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SORTA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59715&oldid=8568 5* 03B jonas 5* (+98) 10 < 1549380524 724193 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549380600 937640 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: oh nice, I haven't seen that yet. I've seen :p and :D getting replaced by smilies, and anything with an @ sign in it getting replaced by (e-mail address obscured for your protection), both of which are great to mess up code. the first one is from mibbit web-irc, the second is from gnu.org's mailing list archives web interface. < 1549380691 855083 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there was that web-based form thing that evaluates a line of J on the server for you, but if the line has a less than sign followed by a letter anywhere, then it gives an error complaining something about how it stopped a cross-site html injectino or something < 1549381620 479710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dry < 1549381622 617369 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dry? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549383576 738829 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549384019 936800 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate C++ queue::pop < 1549384044 97927 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be named "drop", since it doesn't return the removed element < 1549384084 686775 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1549384156 443024 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: there's a reason why it doesn't return the removed element, a C++-specific one; and it shouldn't be called drop, pop is fine because it pops just the one topmost element, just like how std::deque::pop_front and std::deque::pop_back pops just the one front or back element resp. < 1549384190 166867 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop would do something with the whole stack, probably drop it to the floor so the elements end up getting all mixed up and you can't reconstruct the original order, like in that IOCCC submission < 1549384238 844268 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2001_westley that is < 1549384265 663167 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't "pop" anything < 1549384271 913120 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it drops the removed element < 1549384287 927270 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to return it for it to be a "pop" < 1549384299 775111 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549384308 957452 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pop because the top element is removed from the stack < 1549384339 949859 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a toaster that ejects the toast with such velocity that you can't catch it still counts as popping the toast, even if you don't get your toast nicely on your plate, but landing on the floor instead < 1549384359 275369 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those toasters might only exist in cartoons, but still) < 1549384394 727713 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even with a deck of cards a magician might pop the deck by making the top card fly away to the floor, and not catch it on a sword if that's not required for the trick < 1549384397 749652 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still popping < 1549384409 965417 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s usage of the word "pop" is inconsistent with every other language's native "pop" methods < 1549384434 247918 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: what every other language, and how many of those methods even existed before early forms of C++ containers? < 1549384494 526205 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use pop in the sense of discarding the top element at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Blindfolded_Arithmetic , but let me try to find a more independent source < 1549384511 388436 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for starters Lisp < 1549384521 590007 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does lisp have a pop method? < 1549384555 377720 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jtra.cz/stuff/lisp/sclr/pop.html < 1549384560 404279 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a car function to return the top element, and a cdr function for non-destructively discard the top element < 1549384589 929482 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop works on a cell < 1549384660 887263 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that macro in the HUGE cltl library https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node149.html is admittedly possibly older than C++ containers < 1549384680 440694 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look up TAOCP ch. 2 for how it uses pop < 1549384765 830863 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean forth uses DROP to mean, remove an element from the stack and discard it < 1549384777 671986 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is definitely older than C++ < 1549384793 676879 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? it doesn't use "pop" in a different sense, does it? < 1549384801 841459 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the PDP-6 in 1964 had PUSH and POP instructions < 1549384817 175335 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :where POP specifically transfers a value to a register < 1549384817 464065 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: ok, now that's a better example < 1549384830 807241 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does 8086 admittedly < 1549384835 471784 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ARM < 1549384860 908657 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 gets closed but I think the pop instructions are called PL, where does that come from incidentally? < 1549384863 879972 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mnemonic < 1549384880 37903 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :PULL? < 1549384893 599300 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probaby pull < 1549384939 618542 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pull? wow < 1549384976 166127 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be having a four-character instruction name lol < 1549384979 449153 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure about the ARM by the way, I don't recall its mnemonics) < 1549384988 257612 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: sure, but it could be PP or PO or something instead < 1549384999 973598 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH is good enough for push < 1549385151 752640 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually what they could have done to avoid the entire issue with copy cost and stuff is < 1549385154 665961 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth 2.2 is inconclusive, from a quick glance < 1549385181 919530 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have queue::pop() be remove an element < 1549385207 744454 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have queue::pop(&x) be remove and store it into x < 1549385232 397784 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than return < 1549385303 642349 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be totally consistent with assembly language usage of pop < 1549385334 577983 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also exception safe < 1549385427 776785 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: http://www.ioccc.org/1991/brnstnd.hint DJB's entry implements a stack-based esolang, the description says "d: drop (pop) top of i stack", as in the command "d" discards the top element < 1549385454 195024 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least some respectable people use "pop" that way too < 1549385471 409981 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :respectable people other than whoever made that part of the C++ stdlib that is < 1549385524 443311 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the description at https://esolangs.org/wiki/GolfScript also describes a command as "Pop, discard" > 1549385556 859789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analogia14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59716&oldid=59711 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10Surprisingly not policy < 1549385581 849241 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "pop" is just used both ways < 1549385923 643915 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549386278 136035 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549387193 737597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Befunge-93 spec uses "pop" as the name of the $ "discard topmost element of stack" instruction. < 1549387197 632715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're in good company. < 1549387206 316385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, personally I've always called that instruction "drop". < 1549387265 864648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Funge-98 as well.) < 1549387276 870322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "as well" means pop.) < 1549387326 68536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Once you pop, you can't stop > 1549388420 600503 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analogia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59717&oldid=59716 5* 03Ais523 5* (+180) 10we can have circularity of the term being integrated, but not the term it's integrated with respect to (at least, as long as we want the language to stay deterministic and avoid values that never change because they have no reason to) < 1549388451 6053 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549388659 387790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and many x87 FPU instructions have a "...P" variants that say they "pop" the register stack, meaning discarding the top element. > 1549390116 750859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59718&oldid=59498 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+357) 10 < 1549390159 19565 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sveopnqzjspigoxk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549390662 233721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549391345 714603 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dynpzaxkndaouzfn JOIN :#esoteric < 1549391678 18958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( programming is understanding negations. :P ) < 1549391871 808334 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549391899 683834 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549393809 356315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Analogia14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59719 5* 03Ais523 5* (+583) 10/* Did I use the right derivative symbol? */ new section < 1549400672 224515 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549400672 305145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549400672 305220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1549400694 671361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59720&oldid=51758 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10 < 1549402885 23285 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's something I could ask here < 1549402918 281080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently google is finally starting a site in Hungary with developers. there were plans for this like ten years ago already, but eventually they cancelled it. < 1549402943 651214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are some people on this channel who work in google. can you comment on this thing? < 1549402994 14947 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1549402994 697160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect fizzie cannot comment on this thing. < 1549403060 38283 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe someone else on the channel can < 1549403078 688693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are, I think, three or four people working at google here, I just don't recall who exactly < 1549403114 538870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I suspect that people working at Google cannot comment on that kind of thing publicly. < 1549403125 809986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549403137 961219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see < 1549403486 440450 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to work at google < 1549403503 984118 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :commenting on things was generally a big no-no < 1549403509 650673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: I see < 1549403517 353390 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the team whose job it is to do so < 1549403536 242014 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :(commenting on things publicly, that is) < 1549403610 759576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i the team whose job it is to do the big no-nos < 1549403627 642563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that team is the marketing team? < 1549403732 445913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's teams with names like communications or public relations or investor relations or something. And I guess also marketing, but I doubt they'd talk about offices. < 1549403764 150433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"investor relations"? I'm not an investor, but sure < 1549403767 42896 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :press, also < 1549403773 751941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also used to work at Google but I don't really know any specifics about these things other than that they exist. < 1549403786 631357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of divisions by the way < 1549403809 664152 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall being told many times that a reporter asks you to talk about anything, decline to comment and direct them to press@google.com < 1549403820 98542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549403822 137799 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know you’re not a reporter either, but) < 1549404025 602434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You could be an investor if you wanted to. < 1549404058 691789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some small amount of exposure to GOOG, I guess, though I don't own any directly. < 1549404109 116735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's true, I could be an investor indirectly by buying funds backed by the stock market < 1549404521 174437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I wouldn't be supposed to comment, if I knew anything, which I don't. < 1549404538 968755 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549404545 165201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so since you don't know anything, you can comment? < 1549404560 271379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not knowing anything is in fact a comment. < 1549404567 645559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549404583 518539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a bit of a comment. < 1549404603 562612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was probably supposed to say that I can neither confirm nor deny, which would be equally true. < 1549404640 531949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i I can neither confirm nor deny, nor not confirm nor deny. < 1549404673 459748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one reason why I shouldn't comment is that it would be material nonpublic information, and telling it to anyone could constitute tipping. (I had the occasion to read our insider trading policy recently.) < 1549404696 865974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, insider trading laws in Europe are pretty different from in the US. < 1549404703 239782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're probably bound by both. < 1549404741 552574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've no clue how insider trading laws work at all, anywhere < 1549404757 937235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta read Money Stuff < 1549404759 86452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. The existence of an Insider Trading Policy is public, by the way -- it's section 3 of https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ < 1549404785 656416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are some laws for insider trading: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-08-12/the-10-laws-of-insider-trading < 1549404814 86832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Law #1, don't do it, is probably the most important one to know, but the others are pretty relevant too. < 1549404849 911963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you didn’t insider trade, don’t forget and accidentally confess to insider trading." < 1549404857 275383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty reasonable. < 1549404865 887814 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :best thing about leaving google: no more blackout windows < 1549404922 490909 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the existence of which is also public, buried in the above insider trading policy) < 1549404948 714806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blackout windows are useful when you want to sleep during the daytime. < 1549404966 92377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: presumably those can be seen from public streets < 1549404981 320613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1549404983 766372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lack of them was the #1 complaint from university visitors in the summertime in Finland. < 1549404985 784457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a blackout window mean? < 1549404991 830418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (A blackout window is a time period that you're not allowed to trade Google stock during.) < 1549405004 925623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an awkward sentence. < 1549405005 462737 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1549405009 40689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's different < 1549405026 711159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I mean Alphabet. < 1549405029 539862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case they probably can't be seen from public streets, despite that other windows usually can < 1549405054 214036 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s not a google (or alphabet) specific term < 1549405226 518058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and other blackouts usually can) < 1549406388 701351 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1549407513 168346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sad about sourcereal going down so I'm rehosting it at http://sour-cereal.com/ < 1549407698 594932 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1549407885 704536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: great! < 1549407910 181155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should download more valuable websites to potentially be able to do this -- not necessarily host them, but also give the backup to someone else who hosts it < 1549407923 731158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I have too few downloaded, and most of them are out of date too > 1549407928 384517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59721&oldid=58697 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+33) 10 < 1549407933 431166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of candidates for what to download < 1549407936 146666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1549407947 790742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a few that I should download and reformat and host or distribute in a saner format < 1549407964 28777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded someone's website recently after he died. :-( < 1549407974 630501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm keeping a copy just in case, because it's full of interesting things. < 1549407986 384021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far it's still up. < 1549408640 790883 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549409562 765379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549410169 907398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549410454 235874 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549410560 910277 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549410589 936004 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549411533 273564 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549411602 294569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( putting a hyphen in sourcereal is a bit scow, but i guess better than nonexistence. ) < 1549412551 520097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1549412560 901335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like this is better than going with a .org or something. < 1549412577 545159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a better domain I can use that instead. < 1549414737 108350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549415958 867125 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dynpzaxkndaouzfn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549419316 779570 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549421239 28772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59722&oldid=59720 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ > 1549421312 523789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59723&oldid=59722 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ > 1549422012 626504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59724&oldid=59723 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Instructions */ < 1549423483 597452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.reddit.com/r/QuantumComputing/comments/anawy4/alpha_testers_needed_for_quantum_computing_for/ > 1549423542 747168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59725&oldid=59724 5* 03Orby 5* (+131) 10 > 1549423611 574570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59726&oldid=59725 5* 03Orby 5* (-3) 10/* See Also */ > 1549423626 243897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59727&oldid=59726 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* See Also */ > 1549423677 135923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59728&oldid=59727 5* 03Orby 5* (-41) 10/* See Also */ < 1549425136 621953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :skeptical of this so far < 1549425208 672134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom quantum < 1549425209 369356 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1549425214 427545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1549425255 106136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn quantum leap//A quantum leap is a very small leap. See dragons. < 1549425257 253358 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'quantum leap': A quantum leap is a very small leap. See dragons. < 1549425378 705210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sam has a point < 1549425778 651536 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549426993 739558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549427508 265015 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549428178 264196 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549428418 300798 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549431116 359025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59729&oldid=59700 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+963) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ oops, I now see what you mean, thanks for clarifying! < 1549432680 912441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o > 1549434876 711613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59730&oldid=59585 5* 03A 5* (+272) 10/* TeXnicard */ > 1549434975 410747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59731&oldid=59730 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* This=That */ < 1549435301 436280 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549436860 936850 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more edits i see from that A, the more i wish he needed to be here at least once < 1549436881 157394 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom dragons < 1549436882 463191 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1549436895 786191 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am disappointed > 1549443589 271322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Print Function Deluxe14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59732 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1496) 10Created page with "'''Print Function Deluxe''' is an esolang made by [[User:Cortex|]] designed to have very small code and many useful commands, but the only way to see what it actually did thro..." < 1549443725 951529 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549443765 542275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59733&oldid=59679 5* 03Cortex 5* (+65) 10 > 1549444321 930749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59734&oldid=59713 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+22) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ (Rna) < 1549445718 598185 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1549447655 76361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59735&oldid=59022 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+216) 10/* Commands */ fill in missing commands (based on Buslubn, istil formula code) > 1549448141 468833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59736&oldid=59735 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+25) 10/* Commands */ < 1549448753 309889 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549451439 770039 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549451560 523284 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb invented the fulgurator, an explosive with such destructive power that any military who knew its secret could single-handedly rule the world. Taneb tried to sell the super-weapon to several governments, but the representatives all said no. They called Taneb mad, they laughed at him. < 1549451625 868756 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Taneb would show them, he'd show them all. Even if he had to sell the weapon to the shadiest criminal through the underground, the fulgurator would be produced and its dominance over traditional weapons would rule the world. The government representatives won't be laughing then! < 1549451650 815804 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549451671 693431 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549451712 523353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: meh, A1 one is at least more interesting and partially specified to a higher degree than some of A's other languages. I mean, come on, he's even wrote a page about a brainfuck derivative. < 1549451753 1560 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speaking relatively here, mind you. < 1549451775 347131 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't mean A1 in particular < 1549451804 207588 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1549451818 592016 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed you didn't specifically mention A1 < 1549451835 848202 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like he makes trivial substitutes of anything obscure he can find < 1549452050 843337 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, but his edits don't seem significantly different than that of the boring newcomers that the wiki sometimes gets, A just edits in a higher quantity < 1549452221 79394 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he certainly does not lack motivation, but imho he could do much better if he'd get direct feedback from here < 1549452410 265933 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fulgurator < 1549452411 303723 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fulgurator? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549452441 777156 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?gu[rl]" wisdom < 1549452443 908949 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549452452 8548 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?gu" wisdom < 1549452453 32333 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549452455 811303 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?g" wisdom < 1549452456 931577 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/fugal:Fugals are fictitious flower parts. \ wisdom/fug:Fug is the opposite of Unfug (german: un-fug). < 1549452475 816282 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the fug one < 1549452493 942172 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is true, though < 1549452497 789534 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1549452649 480083 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, has Taneb invented the fulgurator? < 1549452650 7641 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what is the minister going to the press, and to be in, the hospital in copeland, that the conservatives. he slightly missed to give us the best possible support, compared to a national average of just 1.5 prosecutions per council. < 1549452664 177007 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copeland? < 1549452682 681789 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 prosecutions per council? < 1549452707 667381 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom < 1549452708 871135 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/marmite:Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. \ wisdom/deewiant:Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. \ wisdom/children:Children are a fungible commodity. \ wisdom/mycology:mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ \ wisdom/füngöt:Füngöt is the German pronunciation of fungo < 1549452733 78031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+5 < 1549452734 224613 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/füngöt:Füngöt is the German pronunciation of fungot. \ wisdom/zzo38:zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. \ wisdom/pietbot:Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. \ wisdom/prefixes:Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . \ wisdom/fnordcore:Fnordcore is fungot's favorite music genre. \ wisdom/fungot:fungot is our beloved ch < 1549452753 737431 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+10 < 1549452754 723710 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/fungot:fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. \ wisdom/befunge:In the Beginning was Befunge. And Befunge begot Fungot. And Fungot got Taneb. And Taneb tanebvented All the Things. Fnord. \ wisdom/page:The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it. \ wisdom/word salad detector:Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinen < 1549452780 873052 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+13 < 1549452782 8241 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/word salad detector:Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering and yes I said yes I will Yes. < 1549453773 480421 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549453896 694778 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549453904 683109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549454205 668520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549454277 465005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549454348 468235 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1549454435 308958 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know very little of ordinary differential equations, probably less than what was required to get the passing grade on the mandatory course on them back lots of years ago. those fundamental theorems about existance and uniqueness and smoothness of ODE solutions, what do they say about the system you can write in Analogia? < 1549454490 919086 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how are the input and output functions supposed to work? < 1549454584 846618 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way how Analogia allows you to put any variable on the right hand side of the differential operator makes this system real strange, I don't think I can even define what they're supposed to mean < 1549454610 71056 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus they look incorrect without a parenthesis around those sums, but that's a different matter) < 1549454922 348075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if they always said dt, that would be nice and simpler < 1549455315 246770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to put anything on the RHS is the main advantage that mechanical analog computers have < 1549455329 762291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too hard to understand if you think about it in terms of rates of change < 1549455358 139902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given integrator, the sum tells you how fast the value of the integrator changes in response to a change in the differential variable < 1549455392 998983 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how mechanical analog computers worked, and I don't even really like the idea of mechanical analog computers. computers should be electronical. < 1549455398 482803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mechanical integrator is basically a varying-ratio gear, there's a gear-like system set up between the differential variable and the integrator's value, and the value being integrated sets the ratio < 1549455453 952467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think viewing Analogia as a differential equation is a bit of a red herring, it's much easier to understand using integrals than derivatives < 1549455468 477236 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but there's the problem that the stuff after the dee can turn back (have a zero derivative) in which case the simple implementation runs into a division by zero < 1549455489 110990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, electronic analog computers require dt in all their integrators, but I think you lose a lot of computational power doing that and have to add it back using extra primitives; however, electronic analog computers can easily implement derivatives, which mechanical analog computers can't) < 1549455525 877426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: nah, while the thing after the d isn't changing, the value of the integrator doesn't change either, and when it's running backwards, the integrator runs backwards < 1549455580 537333 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549455583 501843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like a definite integral, integral(0 to 2)(y dx) is basically saying "x changes from 0 to 2"; so if x changes from 0 to 2 and back to 0 there's no real conceptual problem, you'll end up back where you started unless y also changes in an asymmetrical way < 1549456030 191954 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have a whole system of multiple equations that influence each other < 1549456034 49947 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in crazy ways < 1549456047 343638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's all continuous, this is the whole reason analog computers work < 1549456099 38513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing the value of an integrator never affect anything /right now/ apart from integrators that it's the differential of (which is why Analogia requires no cycles in the differential term) < 1549456105 447326 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is... what you hope. maybe it is, but I don't know those theorems properly. < 1549456108 535194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is change the rate of change, which is something that only affects the future, not the present < 1549456154 745625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you can think of Analogia as a really complex machine for changing its own future evolution < 1549456160 494839 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they guarantee that they work in an open environment of 0 for certain conditions. I don't know what the conditions are, there's like a dozen different versions of the theorem < 1549456162 281866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any given present state is easy to understand < 1549456193 470762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you stop thinking about it as a system of differential equations the language is much simpler (although solving the differential equations is probably the easiest way to bring a program into "closed form") < 1549456250 188377 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need a closed form, and certainly those usually don't exist except for some very special programs < 1549456279 164979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an optimizer would likely try to closed-form as much as possible < 1549456317 131071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. integrating x+x dx means that the output of the integrator will be the square of the input of the integrator, you'd want to optimize that into just using x² directly < 1549456323 106845 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, and a programmer will write interesting programs, not simple linear ones where all the dee variables are t < 1549456382 501336 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549456403 898826 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the functions can't even turn back, at least for 0 [p] -> Doc and tried feeding it a list of Docs) < 1549457409 358609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how useful are Void-producing monad actions? < 1549457444 226840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may still have an effect in a monad transformer < 1549457465 196834 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring laziness that means that Void values actually exist) < 1549457701 394463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps not so useful in Haskell; you can document the intent that subsequent actions will never be performed, but it's not enforced. < 1549457722 554125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t System.Exit.exitSuccess < 1549457723 979811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO a < 1549457730 889870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... right. < 1549457763 513942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can think of that as having "absurd" already built in) < 1549458363 574425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it's similar to ! in Rust, which makes sense < 1549458382 942063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads give sequencing so "nothing ever happens after this in sequence" is a useful thing to be able to say > 1549459209 126430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59737 5* 03A 5* (+210) 10Created page with "[[Csub]] is a "subset" of C. ==Syntax== ==Implementation== [https://github.com/Btup/C-Subset Official compiler to C] ==Turing-completeness== [[Category:Turing-complete]] Cat..." > 1549459365 684146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59738&oldid=59737 5* 03A 5* (+250) 10 > 1549459395 529671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59739&oldid=59738 5* 03A 5* (+640) 10 > 1549459481 955256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59740&oldid=59739 5* 03A 5* (+100) 10/* Syntax */ < 1549459516 947349 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1549459734 953754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59741&oldid=59740 5* 03A 5* (+167) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1549459747 316049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59742&oldid=59741 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Hello, world! Program */ > 1549459822 193683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59743&oldid=59742 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10 > 1549459904 2567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59744&oldid=59743 5* 03A 5* (+73) 10 < 1549460296 407585 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549460646 815364 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is that the github profile of A or does he just link to other peoples languages? > 1549462123 978671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59745&oldid=59744 5* 03A 5* (-336) 10 < 1549462187 795441 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549466366 579640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549468307 594788 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rffwxxvpfpxxhjbp JOIN :#esoteric > 1549468889 489708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Superiumentarius 5* 10New user account < 1549470080 222846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549470784 980581 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really learn how to properly touchtype < 1549470925 918622 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/First_Image_from_Mariner_4_-_GPN-2003-00060.jpg < 1549470953 223284 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ employee of Nasa hand-decoding image from Mars < 1549474452 927244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1549474453 728813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :246) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS. \ 114) Oh I get it you guys just use this space to do nothing ? < 1549475216 846838 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051682b065b7937de.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549475512 383454 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051682b065b7937de.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549476091 752050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rffwxxvpfpxxhjbp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549476747 723593 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrzpapoyvozzexng JOIN :#esoteric < 1549477421 246415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549477421 329148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549477421 329228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549479042 595051 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d5a98ea2a78b51e2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549481567 901942 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d5a98ea2a78b51e2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549482770 813557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549484491 826537 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrzpapoyvozzexng QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549484783 782143 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkelstqqzetloejq JOIN :#esoteric < 1549487005 218657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1549487183 27773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59746&oldid=59721 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+107) 10 > 1549490421 72128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59747&oldid=59524 5* 03Cortex 5* (+28) 10/* Languages I made */ > 1549490485 404129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59748&oldid=59734 5* 03Cortex 5* (+28) 10 < 1549490768 419256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language that makes generating code the primary thing, rather than a special case like a preprocessor? < 1549490783 625938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like quite a lot of code would be better generated than handwritten, if a language made it convenient. < 1549490812 461039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also most metaprogramming mechanisms people use, like CPP and C++ templates and so on, are quite bad. < 1549490848 651585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates are ridiculously bad for what people use them for. < 1549490917 334151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for the relatively limited original use. Maybe.) < 1549491117 140628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp? < 1549491139 991358 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows C++ is a hot mess < 1549491263 435993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway metaprogramming is bad, fexprs are the future < 1549491264 665211 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1549491348 123434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1549491356 217024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp doesn't really have a notion of compile-time < 1549491377 419969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it? I don't know. I want a language for C-level things. < 1549491387 325208 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fexprs is one of those awful things i never understand why people care bout, like shen and wisp < 1549491422 153745 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-172-212-236.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549491450 987345 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're neat and wrote a long blog post about them http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/04/scheme-without-special-forms.html < 1549491456 139077 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they probably aren't practical < 1549491478 849633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most metaprogramming schemes are victims of the esolang disease. < 1549491494 589712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone adds some feature, like C++ templates or Haskell type classes, or whatever, for a pretty limited purpose. < 1549491515 196601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then people start using them for other purposes, because metaprogramming is TG, even though the particular mechanism is a pretty bad one. < 1549491537 723226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then language designers see people use the mechanism for these things, and extend it in all sorts of ways that make it moderately easier to do things. < 1549491549 520445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the problem is that it's hard to design a good one < 1549491553 205948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's all quite a bad system for achieving the end goal, compared to a regular programming language. < 1549491558 631485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rust guys are still trying, but still < 1549491565 706396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hard to make it work well < 1549491571 285161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have so much fun writing scheme < 1549491588 796254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be a lot of fun writing in these accidental esolangs. < 1549491592 862766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not actually good. < 1549491601 276697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, Scheme is less in this category than a lot of other things, probably.) < 1549491622 722142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering trying to make an esolang that's just meta-programming all the way down, as in, the main effect your program does is make another program of the same language but at a lower level, and all the levels are equivalent and there's one for every rational number or something < 1549491628 417465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't yet figure out how to do it well < 1549491643 704403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ideas but they don't really work < 1549491651 457182 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow that code is really elegant, i like qoppa quite a lot < 1549491736 797440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's not eso but actually useful though < 1549491738 555118 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks rain1 < 1549491741 965920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :offtopic? < 1549491774 355974 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fun how the bootstrap code is like an evolution from qoppa to scheme < 1549491818 161822 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should have an esolangs wiki page < 1549491887 355726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, maybe this operative thing is similar to the block thing I've been trying to figure out. < 1549491917 747274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :block thing? > 1549491942 434018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kmc 5* 10New user account < 1549491954 210025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make one < 1549492054 502733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's not quite an esolang but i think it's in the same general spirit < 1549492057 386493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a tarpit of sorts < 1549492086 994789 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "lambda tarpit" a thing < 1549492091 318980 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare it to be a thing < 1549492166 391053 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1549492172 463338 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda is the king there then < 1549492182 639653 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe combinator ones too < 1549492184 411502 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blc < 1549492184 826503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think I discussed it before. < 1549492188 83690 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a few that fit in that set < 1549492202 757256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably. this channel had a lot of things going on. < 1549492204 105149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like, what should a {} block be, as a pseudo-first-class thing. < 1549492221 20915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "argument" to if/for/etc. < 1549492224 357610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that really depends on the language < 1549492235 198325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One answer is that those things are just macros. < 1549492243 199507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought there would be a nicer answer. < 1549492255 488727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a block is in underload and consumer society, and what it is in postscript, < 1549492283 799880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages (like perl) they're more or less anonymous closure bodies < 1549492305 493282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how you define functions in perl that take a block, although they don't quite work the same as the built-in stuff that takes a block, but still < 1549492313 640019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a control structure like if < 1549492315 857332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for a language with, let's say, no runtime notion of closure. < 1549492321 81800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you take the condition in a block, you can also define a while < 1549492325 572873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to compile to efficient code. < 1549492348 73353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the primary use was supposed to be things that take "the rest of the block" as an argument, which I think I've discussed here before. < 1549492354 106570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they still work if they're closures that are only allowed to capture the stack frame as a reference < 1549492357 562399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't be leaked < 1549492359 426993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know there are multiple implementations of qoppa https://github.com/timfel/qoppy < 1549492364 39204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those compile to efficient code < 1549492369 832278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more efficient than normal anyway < 1549492386 803511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk and ruby take the closure thing even further than perl of course < 1549492390 528001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, but I want it to compile to efficient code, not things with indirect jumps and whatever. < 1549492426 66234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't know many languages that have closures implemented in terms of a stack frame pointer. < 1549492429 69772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only D. < 1549492429 489151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there are no indirect jumps in this. there might be dereferences though, which is bad. < 1549492435 514905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it ended up in an ACM published paper?? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306013530_Multi-level_Debugging_for_Interpreter_Developers < 1549492438 520352 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1549492441 24682 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :life is funny < 1549492445 5891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no indirect jumps because the closure type is known exactly < 1549492453 705891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1549492461 4703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is while/if/whatever inlined? < 1549492476 861348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... when or where? < 1549492487 894675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like in smalltalk or ruby? < 1549492501 614358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherever you said there are no indirect jumps. < 1549492504 697344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl and ruby actually has built-in if and while statements that don't actually work with a closure < 1549492515 552317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, that's always true if you put this in a strongly typed compiled language < 1549492524 976550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "if" etc. is inlined? < 1549492526 524395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what? < 1549492543 144270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean the if function itself < 1549492546 864768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would have to be inlined < 1549492559 122340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be because I assume a strongly typed language, and if would be a generic < 1549492563 978930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a C++ template or rust generic < 1549492572 203853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be instantiated for the specific closure type < 1549492579 209709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it will certainly be inlined < 1549492581 901075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing is that you might have a thing take a block as an argument and change its scope. < 1549492612 941176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have something like "using namespace foo { ... }", things inside the block would implicitly have name resolution in foo::. < 1549492619 733143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly a compile-time thing, not a closure. < 1549492628 967090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, perl does that < 1549492663 252838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it compiles code, each part of the code that needs it remembers the active package, the enabled warnings, and certain pragmas, from compile time < 1549492683 430728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant values either modify compilation, or are tracked somewhere in the compiled code so that the runtime can access it < 1549492698 47288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the active package is needed when you access a global variable or sub by name without qualification < 1549492721 607166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if $foo isn't a local and you reference $foo, then it will mean $foo in the active package, which is fixed at compile time for any mention of $foo < 1549492880 679025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Perl's separation between compiletime and runtime is as clear as I'd like, though maybe I can still get some ideas from it. < 1549492889 464364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely not clear < 1549492900 348266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run any runtime code at compile time, or compile anything at runtime < 1549492906 148127 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested to any number of levels < 1549492913 339998 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549493101 596147 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549493724 969833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1549493786 913728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59749&oldid=59501 5* 03Kmc 5* (+187) 10 > 1549493796 923889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoppa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59750 5* 03Kmc 5* (+1121) 10Create page < 1549494587 392504 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :namspace template < 1549494612 122771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think templated namespaces would be reasonable in C++ < 1549494621 235221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :template namespace N { ... } < 1549494621 562915 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :declared like namespace foo { .... < 1549494639 611368 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1549494697 60084 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they would be useful in my current project since I need to be able to easily compile the same stuff with two different backends < 1549494726 446545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :use cpp hth < 1549494739 665973 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm using a #define but still < 1549494766 206818 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be more ceeplusplussy to use templates? < 1549494795 625099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more ceeplusplussy is more badder < 1549495069 844972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1549495295 518922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549495767 18789 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's wrong < 1549495770 290503 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates all the way < 1549495790 21538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the details of course < 1549495844 499886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFINAE all the way < 1549495851 619446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i sfinmk < 1549496884 348474 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1549496919 462083 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549497077 693060 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549497078 810713 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549497091 855417 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkelstqqzetloejq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549498121 246247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549499018 774722 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wgibfbhsgijqelrw JOIN :#esoteric < 1549500288 888305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Oh for... tmux is broken again < 1549500334 968921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549500653 623268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd quantum leap//s,dragons,dragon, < 1549500655 393176 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum leap//A quantum leap is a very small leap. See dragon. < 1549500662 698037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: try again hth < 1549500693 130609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe `wisdom should strip plural endings, although it feels a bridge too far. < 1549500721 775131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dragon < 1549500724 866070 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels. < 1549500742 524590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought spiders live inside string diagrams. < 1549501330 630785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they jumped into the open niche left by the dragons, then < 1549501378 725992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqGpNl9X4AAZaSR.jpg:large < 1549502001 879373 :Cullran!~Cullran@136.0.0.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549502002 879471 :Cullran!~Cullran@136.0.0.107 PART :#esoteric < 1549505491 382872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :deques are just rebadged tapes. > 1549506748 574503 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59751&oldid=59731 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+71) 10/* This=That */ Fix fatal bug < 1549507383 545146 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1549508904 690010 :ingrens!~ingrens@103.25.59.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549508905 979631 :ingrens!~ingrens@103.25.59.94 PART :#esoteric < 1549509091 872689 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wgibfbhsgijqelrw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549509655 236016 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@213.232.192.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549509862 214487 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549509885 242085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549509885 850001 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@213.232.192.3 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549510554 975254 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549510766 705495 :ghalnuls!~ghalnuls@103.25.59.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549510767 588064 :ghalnuls!~ghalnuls@103.25.59.86 PART :#esoteric < 1549510909 866407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549511186 320349 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549511253 377589 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549513189 143235 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(before you freak out, monadic here is of the Mathematics definition, and not the Haskell variant ) < 1549513189 307712 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1549513401 795203 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo_ < 1549513408 815756 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi kmc < 1549513412 759455 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading an APL tutorial < 1549513439 513050 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so they mean arity 1 < 1549513779 328663 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to learn J a few times, I think most of the knowledge left my head. But apparently APL doesn't support J's pointfree stuff? < 1549513903 178550 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1549513910 646000 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn APL < 1549516493 226808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: just read https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Incunabulum hth < 1549516740 21096 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of reading APL stuff, I am now reading J stuff again < 1549518480 702885 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549519166 789988 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549520066 153890 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549520092 584728 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549520465 743314 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I think Dyalog supports a lot of the tacit/pointsfree things < 1549520548 174062 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but historially APL hasn't (I think IPSA's APL introduced them in the 90s, and it carried over into J < 1549522105 290096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, http://terralang.org/ might be similar to the kind of thing I was talking about. < 1549522166 971566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not really the same < 1549523429 442619 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549523622 679878 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-172-212-236.range86-172.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: http://corewar.co.uk < 1549524901 769837 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549525453 266131 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549527019 78298 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549528628 825448 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549529365 532155 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549529631 639857 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1549530789 801992 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I tried to learn APL < 1549530809 73943 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find a tutorial that began "Plug in your telephone to your typewriter and dial the number for your computer" < 1549530824 579956 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decided I should maybe try something a little more modern < 1549531424 721102 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1549531465 807431 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that AVX512 introduced some opcodes on bits that distinctly remind me of 60s APL < 1549531533 871265 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure out how to plug in my smartphone into my mechanical typewriter < 1549531649 868064 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be an insanely awesome piece of tech for someone to hack up, though < 1549531653 973098 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0038b2bd4eb65d9b90.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549531774 607921 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tad above my ability :( < 1549532171 567459 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549532996 476501 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549534029 240726 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549534056 541542 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/scorchy/ < 1549534057 443381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/scorchy/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale < 1549534233 989262 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190206.html < 1549534234 728310 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190206.html: b_jonas < 1549534306 132691 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, either that comic is unrealistic or I grew up with a lie. I told that when a ladder breaks, you get two ten-foot poles. < 1549534330 557314 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it breaks badly you get two five-foot ladders < 1549534411 947142 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's the problem here < 1549540110 562814 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549540293 787450 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549540293 951307 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549542056 535295 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549542464 334921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happens when you use a ladder as a bridge < 1549543195 292838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn A ladder is just a vertical bridge. < 1549543197 443237 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'ladder': A ladder is just a vertical bridge. < 1549543679 526175 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a bit more complicated than that. a ladder is a bridge that goes *up*. if it goes down, then we call it a snake instead of a ladder. < 1549543852 830933 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? snake < 1549543853 915928 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :snake? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549543854 837985 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bridge < 1549543856 118758 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bridge? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549543856 732468 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sneak < 1549543857 882356 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sneak? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549543867 670120 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? serpent < 1549543868 792148 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :serpent? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549544132 85549 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfpuxaiitzxwbdjf JOIN :#esoteric < 1549544472 725640 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549544791 414514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd ladder//s/vertical bridge/directed & in the positive orientation/ < 1549544793 333495 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladder//A ladder is just a directed vertical bridge in the positive orientation. > 1549546866 223338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59752&oldid=59745 5* 03A 5* (+178) 10 > 1549547460 861474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59753&oldid=59752 5* 03A 5* (+1380) 10/* Example programs */ > 1549548222 245926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59754&oldid=59753 5* 03A 5* (+346) 10/* DIV(division) function */ > 1549548696 715846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59755&oldid=59754 5* 03A 5* (+446) 10/* Example programs */ > 1549548706 182635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59756&oldid=59755 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* =Fibonacci sequence */ > 1549549269 809779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59757&oldid=59756 5* 03A 5* (+840) 10/* Fibonacci sequence */ > 1549549497 694545 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59758&oldid=59757 5* 03A 5* (+289) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ < 1549552943 878327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549553114 854611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(before you freak out, monadic here is of the Mathematics definition, and not the Haskell variant ) <-- how amortized < 1549553129 475684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION couldn't think of the actual word he wanted hth hth < 1549553144 33995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something about poor deluded fools < 1549553149 11374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1549553150 84417 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you turn off the thing that means you need to say hth twice to say it once < 1549553162 636213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but i forget it doesn't trigger on /me < 1549553179 183164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forgot < 1549553187 281912 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1549553193 779359 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh < 1549553205 377273 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: J has a lot of unique terminology, different from earlier APLs. the normal term is "unary". < 1549553226 365391 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IJ went out of his way to find obscure words < 1549553261 276181 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RH may have taken some part, but I think it was mostly KI < 1549553264 183519 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/IJ/KI < 1549553265 936314 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I thought APL used the monadic/dyadic thing? < 1549553272 235508 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't know < 1549553272 909238 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, those names < 1549553291 262639 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that APL calls "operators" what J calls "verbs" < 1549553300 771945 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check some other APL manuals < 1549553302 132240 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess KI was around for APL too < 1549553332 52943 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KI invented APL and J < 1549553436 158812 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you may be right < 1549553522 62580 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1549553533 169034 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL has been using "monadic" and "dyadic" for a long time < 1549553536 564165 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was plain wrong < 1549553550 73072 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not one of the terms KI has invented specifically for J < 1549553574 574132 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think the correct initials are KEI < 1549553827 890284 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm wrong about "operator" too. APL calls "functions" what J calls "verbs" < 1549555526 118809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't think wob_jonas was entirely serious about the snakes hth < 1549555543 832339 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a log entry < 1549555545 351051 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549555546 695841 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom entry < 1549555547 450276 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1549555553 401281 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have qwertyal aphasia < 1549555618 655072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you suggesting wisdom entries are not supposed to be accurate tdnh < 1549555672 172304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm pretty sure it's possible to descend ladders, at least if you don't look down first. < 1549555675 440329 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accurate doesn't have to do with this. we're talking about serious vs frivolous (whatever that latter one is spelleD)\ < 1549555701 594796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :remarkably, i think that spelling's correct < 1549556840 866086 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL also uses monad/dyad terminolgy < 1549556887 277946 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terms that are new in J are mainly the linguistically inspired ones I think < 1549556948 57319 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if he went for that originally, the *-adic terms might've been valency (univalent etc) instead, I think < 1549556972 932131 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Univalent foundations to J theory < 1549556987 453783 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valency_(linguistics) < 1549557282 821256 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern common terminolgy is a bit of a mix of origins anyway: you typically say unary, but also variadic < 1549557291 832726 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in programming.. < 1549557627 139935 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549557879 938096 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfpuxaiitzxwbdjf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549558235 544166 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549558391 818140 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549558566 734538 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549558783 334946 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549559426 826008 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549560035 677345 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549560748 664296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1549560821 304556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about a möbius ladder twh < 1549560830 113747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I was scrolled up < 1549561676 483885 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you mean from that Escher picture with the ants? < 1549561852 16837 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549563211 917045 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0038b2bd4eb65d9b90.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549563851 86987 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :deque automata are really just turing machines under a different projection. it looks like you can map the operations of a turing machine _directly_ onto that of a deque automaton. < 1549563949 441757 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reasoning: a regular queue automaton is just a right-moving circular TM tape. a deque automaton is thus a queue automaton that can move in either direction with a circular tape. < 1549563990 970648 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how offline are you right now? < 1549564039 827501 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqxvynbplebnnenw JOIN :#esoteric < 1549564132 3385 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: not so < 1549565658 851664 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081ef1ebd4b8bab51.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549567097 199420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549567181 727725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, the xkcd Randal published another book? what's this with every webcomic author publishing books other than comic books? (qwantz and smbc are previous examples) < 1549567234 143841 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081ef1ebd4b8bab51.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, authors publishing books, bleh, what an idea < 1549567248 346865 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549567362 476912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more strangely, https://xkcd.com/how-to/ uses a bad map projection < 1549570240 881914 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with it is $$$ < 1549570248 636084 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the comic has sucked for a long time < 1549570273 137233 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to be very much a member of the xkcd haters club < 1549570281 832966 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's not everywhere all the time so i just don't care either way < 1549570301 713347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you're more a member of the xkcd fan club haters club < 1549570308 780166 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess < 1549570313 853595 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fandom is always worse than the work < 1549570322 691477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm p. sympathetic to that, it's a scow fan club < 1549570327 843713 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's xkcd, rick and morty, nietzsche, jesus < 1549570365 894614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho i don't think R&M is that good of a show either < 1549570373 660234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the kind of person who always links to xkcd every time someone talks about sql injection or whatever < 1549570376 874325 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe if I would watch more I would like it < 1549570385 935684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a scow behavior < 1549570390 763794 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549570424 794795 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked rick and morty way less after watching venture bros < 1549570483 376411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do keep linking to webcomics, but not about SQL injection in particular < 1549570517 396588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, linking to webcomics is fine. < 1549570527 88663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about linking to SMSM? < 1549570542 514257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to Ozy and Millie? < 1549570544 20173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know SMSM < 1549570559 385036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reminds me < 1549570560 220057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes do that, but not always, because I don't have a transcript for either of them, and it's hard to find the right strip < 1549570567 15912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://stickman.qntm.org/index.php < 1549570572 563681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 493 < 1549570573 265824 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 493: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1549570593 882688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just people who always try to tie any possible topic to xkcd just because it was brought up once that's annoying < 1549570606 267572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 492 < 1549570607 26983 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 492: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1549570616 22335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I see < 1549574095 682643 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549574954 804043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549574972 242257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549576744 168860 :^vandall^!~sadus@79.118.83.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549576815 992569 :^vandall^!~sadus@79.118.83.127 PART :#esoteric < 1549577257 232223 :^vandall^1!~sadus@79.118.83.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549577273 650957 :^vandall^1!~sadus@79.118.83.127 PART :#esoteric < 1549577502 608653 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081ef1ebd4b8bab51.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1549580220 324892 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549580396 554300 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549580924 786435 :^vandall^1!~sadus@79.118.83.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549580961 746808 :^vandall^1!~sadus@79.118.83.127 PART :#esoteric < 1549581021 239065 :^vandall^!~sadus@79.118.83.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549581198 471304 :^vandall^!~sadus@79.118.83.127 PART :#esoteric < 1549581626 536243 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549581869 603206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549582358 852979 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549582900 771750 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549583028 654568 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549583305 706561 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549583472 730686 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549583486 569730 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549583486 898697 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549584145 713020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549584182 500028 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549586899 904100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1549586902 27722 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:flabberghast//Flabberghast is the recurring hunting one gets after too indulgent feast where one partook too liberaly \ chicken//Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them. \ rainbow//Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar. \ degenerate//Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The subjects of this sui degeneris program include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, < 1549586903 140626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1549586903 894583 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:and watches without mustard. \ amiga//Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. < 1549587508 711335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd chicken//s;leaves them;used to leave them, then he left; < 1549587510 756747 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken//Chicken have capital words. boily used to leave them, then he left. < 1549587555 679320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg flabberghast < 1549587557 310433 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10050:2016-12-31 learn Flabberghast is the recurring hunting one gets after too indulgent feast where one partook too liberaly < 1549587579 648499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a reference i don't get < 1549587767 212738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The flabberghast is the most confusing type of undead. < 1549587769 186387 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'flabberghast': The flabberghast is the most confusing type of undead. < 1549588112 809610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell imode A deque automaton viewed that way is more efficient than a turing machine: it can easily insert new cells between cells. < 1549588113 259391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1549588209 850648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell imode (or delete) < 1549588210 164916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1549588337 577647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : the fandom is always worse than the work <-- . o O ( there has to be an exception to that somewhere. ) < 1549588368 69361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( that thought bubble was a bit redundant ) < 1549588469 374251 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps very obscure works with very tiny fandoms < 1549588725 378495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps sourcereal < 1549588913 376618 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( . o O ( are we thinking thoughts? ) ) < 1549588956 188359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are thought bubbles a monad? < 1549588972 419506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the mathematical sense, not the APL sense hth < 1549589055 83681 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking of thinking a thought is not the same as thinking a thought < 1549589069 619510 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1549589074 753459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also simpsons did it < 1549589075 105240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list of lists of things is not the same as a list of things hth < 1549589087 180733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about dreams? can you collapse nested dreams? < 1549589119 572618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode has both THOUGHT BUBBLEs and a THOUGHT BALLOON < 1549589145 75488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever have imaginary conversation with people < 1549589167 709953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, do you sometimes inform those people that they aren't the real person but only the imaginary person create for the purposes of conversation < 1549589170 678652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do hth < 1549589238 896617 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) yes but b) no < 1549589241 229907 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should < 1549589244 550821 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they usually react? < 1549589253 717414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the person < 1549589259 714159 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would i react? > 1549589261 73011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck minus -14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59759&oldid=57020 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+32) 10Add See also to similar language < 1549589263 478293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be difficult to keep the simulation running in the face of absurdity < 1549589286 544624 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I told you, you'd pretty much shrug it off < 1549589303 586478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I wouldn't believe you? < 1549589315 682404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm just an offshrugger in general? < 1549589320 915933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1549589347 71164 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it doesn't actually give you any information even if i'm telling the truth < 1549589351 918370 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what is being real, etc < 1549589361 263963 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might tip you off that the simulation is of poor quality > 1549589365 26213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59760&oldid=54922 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+22) 10Add See also to Brainfuck minus - and fix sections case < 1549589401 383142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I might not have a coherent definition of real but I still have a sense for it. < 1549589415 585763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i know it when i see it" < 1549589431 436726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it fells more like a modality than a functor to me... so the question is whether it's transitive (◇◇P ⟹ ◇P, usually written ◻P ⟹ ◻◻P) < 1549589439 583476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feels* < 1549589450 940281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are modalities not monadic? < 1549589461 681438 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I used to have a problem where I would often argue with people in my head, and they'd be more of a jerk in my head than in actuality, and then i'd be mad at that person for absolutely no actual reason < 1549589462 607376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it might be a functor in some sense, but not in an internal sense. < 1549589467 696127 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it happens much anymore? < 1549589478 688361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs2y6O6N9Ks < 1549589504 808172 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not someone to shoehorn everything into a categorical setting. < 1549589520 207422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a categorical imperative < 1549589547 192341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1549589555 779330 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that show is tg < 1549589566 488595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1549589569 643732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you watched it all < 1549589580 552007 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been in some Places of late, because how you meant that is not how I read it. < 1549589580 860453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1549589594 726184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't you asking for shows to watch the other day? < 1549589601 420168 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1549589604 332939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo start with the known-tg ones < 1549589604 990499 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think of this one tho < 1549589607 906504 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now i have :) < 1549589639 407087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hikhq < 1549589654 741801 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1549589671 441909 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to nested dreams i have also had nested sex fantasies < 1549589688 855014 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effort required to maintain that makes it somewhat hard to enjoy < 1549589695 788988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds a little wholesome < 1549589700 622158 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549589746 521461 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1549589851 592184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/24f1/b508d93c7b06f2af713b14078c8b25b90586.pdf is ontopic for both modal logic and wholesomeness < 1549589865 669830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :("A non-judgmental reconstruction of drunken logic") < 1549589969 752107 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, I clicked "Random page" a few times on the esolang wiki and came across https://esolangs.org/wiki/PUBERTY < 1549589980 64378 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is definitely wholesome < 1549590030 260255 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds like a SIGBOVIK paper < 1549590042 183134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1549590055 596304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1549590060 273055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As Bovik has famously noted in [2], nowhere outside of undergraduate lectures are scholars are more prone to sweeping generalizations than at the bar." < 1549590089 419154 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a SIGBOVIK paper ever been cited by a "serious" paper? < 1549590154 240180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, though I don't remember the specific case. < 1549590162 727237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an NP-completeness proof or something? > 1549591102 998021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59761&oldid=59758 5* 03A 5* (+672) 10/* Implementing other operators */ > 1549591142 670520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59762&oldid=59761 5* 03A 5* (+59) 10/* Syntax */ > 1549592549 729402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59763&oldid=59762 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* =continue */ > 1549592622 521140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59764&oldid=59763 5* 03A 5* (+111) 10/* Syntax */ < 1549593180 649851 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 256 core brainfuck machine has me thinking. < 1549593280 84005 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqxvynbplebnnenw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549593300 77446 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just got your message... that's interesting, actually. making me think. < 1549593429 883061 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deque automata is equivalent, at that point, to a TM with an "insert" operation to create new tape cells. < 1549593442 137811 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1549596636 577139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59765&oldid=59764 5* 03A 5* (+33) 10/* continue */ > 1549597814 604642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59766&oldid=59765 5* 03A 5* (-5) 10/* Syntax */ > 1549597877 875180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59767&oldid=59766 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Example programs */ > 1549598058 192619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59768&oldid=59767 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Implementing other operators */ > 1549598717 27109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59769&oldid=59768 5* 03A 5* (-18) 10 > 1549598733 272065 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59770&oldid=59769 5* 03A 5* (-84) 10/* Syntax */ > 1549599290 278841 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WII2D14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59771 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1331) 10Created page with "'''WII2D''' is a 2D esolang created by [[User:Cortex|]]. Its name stands for "'''W'''hy '''I'''s '''I'''t '''2D'''?" It was clearly inspired by [[Befunge]]. It is probably eve..." > 1549599300 687817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WII2D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59772&oldid=59771 5* 03Cortex 5* (-6) 10/* Hello, World! */ > 1549599859 17950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59773&oldid=59770 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Syntax */ > 1549599872 318899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59774&oldid=59773 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ > 1549599884 557186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59775&oldid=59774 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10/* NOT function */ > 1549599942 385442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59776&oldid=59775 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10/* Turing-completeness */ < 1549603019 747981 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549603203 292168 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549603521 122132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549604870 856707 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549604947 369644 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549610889 680783 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549611397 229415 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549612950 462467 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549613161 129315 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cxunurkrevrpocox JOIN :#esoteric < 1549613218 379714 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549613296 817379 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549613497 970463 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1549613860 466243 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549615425 713568 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549615499 489112 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549615748 389165 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549618486 529183 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549619661 250682 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549619928 268378 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549621542 543263 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cxunurkrevrpocox QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549622298 692086 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549622335 473382 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549624268 644547 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549625001 519776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549625265 479193 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549626725 692664 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549626826 565170 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549627240 773771 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549632772 595265 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-169-226-30.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549637326 988919 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549637456 249257 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549637524 774130 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-169-226-30.range86-169.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: http://corewar.co.uk < 1549639698 720922 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549640050 569460 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shinh.skr.jp/elvm/8cc.js.html < 1549641139 973934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549644125 651110 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1549644717 828291 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krczxqsljabuqigi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549644807 244887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549645786 611276 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549646047 652919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549646745 694502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1549648570 723300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Amcgregor 5* 10New user account < 1549649440 936599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1549650354 674437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59777&oldid=59746 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (-14) 10Tested and fixed code > 1549650532 909839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59778&oldid=59777 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (-9) 10 < 1549650875 44847 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever mentioned the idea of a space that you couldn't encode TC computations in, thanks. that idea about circular tapes and not being able to go "back" led me to some interesting results about ring networks. > 1549651251 196821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Silly Emplosions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59779&oldid=45843 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+149) 10 < 1549651697 236344 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549652492 50457 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krczxqsljabuqigi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549654717 515149 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: go on? < 1549654941 516408 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: just about how ring networks are really nice when dealing with network partitions because they represent the simplest case. the 256-core brainfuck chip used an on-chip ring network. < 1549655026 352217 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a single node in a network faults, you don't end up with a partition, you end up with a smaller ring. if your faults then just occur on the edges of that ring, your ring just shrinks. partitions, however, result in multiple sub-rings and can "mesh" together again when the links between those sub-rings are restored. < 1549655566 51869 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you define "ring network"? < 1549655583 831630 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, a network of nodes arranged in a ring topology. < 1549656512 905819 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one node faults < 1549656517 656380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you have a line and not a smaller ring? < 1549656521 197803 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a self healing ring < 1549656531 461845 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm confused < 1549656541 779128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a self-healing ring. < 1549656554 307428 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because between two nodes, there's a bidirectional communication link. < 1549656580 824470 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of a node forwarding communications to its successive neighbors, it just echoes it back to the neighbor it can reach. < 1549662226 950040 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549662810 886014 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1549663499 744429 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549663886 353044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? macron < 1549663887 414421 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ā macron is what you put ōver ā long vowel in order to mark it as ā long vowel. Macrons will bēcome mandatory in English on Octōber 14, 2016. < 1549663888 635640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brevis < 1549663889 761165 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :brevis? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549663890 399742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? breve < 1549663891 545003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :breve? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549664019 76423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` perl -pi -e "s/will\b/have/;print STDERR $_" wisdom/macron < 1549664020 769698 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash < 1549664027 357470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1549664030 629215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? macron < 1549664031 742887 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ā macron is what you put ōver ā long vowel in order to mark it as ā long vowel. Macrons have bēcome mandatory in English on Octōber 14, 2016. < 1549664051 626657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, double quote, not single quote < 1549664055 637123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1549664637 257933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( 1̅4̅ ) < 1549664661 792694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macrons seem to be in the wrong places in that sentence though < 1549664691 606524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nah, on digits you put overbars, meaning negation or complement or something, not macrons < 1549664694 607325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally different thing < 1549664758 269046 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was thinking about claiming that the '1' is pronounced 'teen' :P < 1549665471 803594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1549667486 531476 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549669231 959252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549669716 869566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1549669718 488524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 082320Z 12009KT CAVOK M01/M03 Q0988 RMK WIND 670FT 11012KT < 1549669730 181187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how reasonable. < 1549669782 466504 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549669976 553862 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549669976 656115 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549671553 371061 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549671745 342263 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549673809 953298 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549674221 952272 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549674559 725781 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549675054 180306 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549675440 413598 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549676554 652730 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549676736 836686 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549677102 787273 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549677378 653919 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549678789 316054 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :on-chip ring networks of processors could actually be really, really nice. if you use a space-filling curve, you could compact a bunch of nodes in a very small space. < 1549678844 584331 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need one that loops, though. < 1549678850 456156 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a moore curve. < 1549680114 893213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549680359 897775 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549680371 737860 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549680664 894659 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549681918 703436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549683106 398427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549683364 213979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549683590 795608 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549683890 654132 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549684263 615560 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549684805 930821 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1549684853 413693 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549684862 205270 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549687317 531346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549687334 945669 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549687706 530181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1549688177 281384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59780 5* 03Cortex 5* (+596) 10Created page with "'''Vague''' is an esolang. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Character !! What it does |- | + || Add |- | - || Decrement |- | !..." > 1549688197 859259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59781&oldid=59747 5* 03Cortex 5* (+12) 10 > 1549688273 393271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59782&oldid=59459 5* 03Cortex 5* (+28) 10 < 1549690082 235921 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549690336 232713 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549691012 963246 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549691243 817603 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549691987 997582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1549694658 256652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue-Mirr14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59783 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+545) 10Created page with "[[Category:Languages]][[Category:2019]] Thue-Mirr is a 2D programming language with the following commands: * \ / - Mirrors * x - Output X coordinate of til..." > 1549695488 327053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue-Mirr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59784&oldid=59783 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+57) 10 < 1549696570 376360 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549696827 269518 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549698283 728095 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549699624 460473 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549700513 536259 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549711137 389258 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549711517 241467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the sequel of XYZABCDE.ZZT game can be made as a text adventure game instead; I don't know? < 1549711536 210672 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried XYZABCDE < 1549711566 203969 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/ZZT/xyzabcde.zip < 1549711609 635590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that one. If you have ZZT in your computer then you can try to play game. < 1549711697 967395 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe also a sequel may be a different operetta too (I think someone on this IRC suggested something like that, maybe) < 1549713206 556544 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549713259 701722 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549713446 773840 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abahvepjnutqhwsi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549714297 389246 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549715871 490473 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549716967 296594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549720237 599159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a book like Warren's Hacker's Delight, only updated to more modern to tell about how to do things well on actual modern cpus and the kind of vector instructions they have < 1549720280 975552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth doesn't fill that hole, probably because the specifics are moving too quickly and may have to be rewritten every eight years. < 1549720983 287505 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549721230 80638 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abahvepjnutqhwsi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549724237 23266 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549727138 822194 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549733648 714657 :feeb!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkkkmpafqclcmtnf JOIN :#esoteric < 1549733900 839591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to do best might depend what kind of instruction set; x86 is difference from ARM, and ARM is difference from RISC-V, and so on. < 1549733909 599645 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549735830 172403 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, that's a cool book < 1549736380 720865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549736478 694579 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: [who left] indeed < 1549736486 181880 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good reason to use compiler intrinsics for bitops < 1549736503 854721 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will either have some arch-specific trick, or a pretty good generic impl < 1549736513 835319 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 and ARM have some fancy bit ops < 1549736521 14419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas RISC-V is very simple < 1549736569 329613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the mill is where it's at hth < 1549736575 455268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should watch the mill videos < 1549736585 456184 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has xor, or, and, logical and arithmetic shifts < 1549736587 938617 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's about it < 1549736612 88292 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no negation (I suppose you xor with 0xFFFF...FFFF) < 1549736678 22955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC-V also has no condition flags. there are instructions to branch on the contents of a register, and comparisons which set a register to 0/1 < 1549736695 827454 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose this makes out of order execution easier. no need to track the flags register as another implicit dependency < 1549737064 818343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549737251 855137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it certainly depends a bit, but we still need good books on it < 1549737272 479851 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, different instruction sets applies to the actual Warren book and Knuth too, but they're still very useful < 1549737617 667385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like the multiple OR and multiple XOR instructions? < 1549737656 724168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the MOR and MXOR instructions in MMIX is good. < 1549737827 973930 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although MOR seems to be generally more useful than MXOR, but MXOR can be useful too sometimes.) < 1549738062 570339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as you can swap endian (including PDP-endian). < 1549738547 415008 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do those work? < 1549738633 378371 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549738690 734884 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://mmix.cs.hm.edu/doc/instructions-en.html#MOR < 1549739131 670288 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549739531 263923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1549740487 895034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Trance14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59785 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+6077) 10Added Bitwise Trance < 1549740539 562349 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody an idea for a good thesis topic about zkp? > 1549740624 185376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59786&oldid=59748 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+21) 10Added "Bitwise Trance" to the language list < 1549741106 943145 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549741135 543975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Trance14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59787&oldid=59785 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10/* First example */ > 1549741189 919776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Trance14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59788&oldid=59787 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+6) 10/* First example */ < 1549743782 925299 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzorscvvdxbzhmye JOIN :#esoteric < 1549744866 836931 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549748135 601138 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:3928:f4a:8814:b90f QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549748925 315356 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d16d:b525:38cd:1856 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549749549 890779 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do spaceships occur at random in game of life < 1549749813 293161 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549750259 936994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting from an empty board, 0% of the time < 1549750262 2350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Did you try implementing it to see how often (approximately)? < 1549750324 310801 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't implement it < 1549751139 757896 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1549751275 728641 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1549751299 392230 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549751369 736536 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549752139 890472 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549752193 358671 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549752247 681016 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1549752746 529444 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549755757 527446 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a turing machine without states still turing complete? i.e instead of (state, symbol, newstate, newsymbol, direction), you have (symbol, newsymbol, direction)? doesn't seem like it would be. < 1549756434 93053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call that a single state TM. And as you suspect, those are not TC; the halting problem is decidable for single state TMs. < 1549756770 891453 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549756867 912169 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured as much. iirc two states with some fenangling makes you TC. < 1549756887 313706 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thaaaaanks~ < 1549756897 223100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, two states and sufficiently many symbols... hmm < 1549756899 489152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but see ais523's language https://esolangs.org/wiki/StackFlow for when you have multiple tapes, and you choose which one to read from in the next step in each step < 1549756925 153891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. that's interesting. < 1549756957 668356 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if a two-tape one-state TM could be TC... < 1549756961 602911 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzorscvvdxbzhmye QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549756975 540281 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is involved in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfram%27s_2-state_3-symbol_Turing_machine :P < 1549756990 581496 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :naively you could store your current state in that alternate tape. < 1549757004 459461 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait really? lmao. < 1549757011 783744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: in that case you can certainly use one tape to store the state of an ordinary TM. < 1549757021 194704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1549757022 331440 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1549757032 53006 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful information. < 1549757049 55650 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more useful than you may think... the "Smith" is accurate. < 1549757112 725442 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that two-tape one-state idea has me thinking about rewrite languages and CAs now.. < 1549757143 434016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of a good reason to have two active stacks for coroutines/asynchronous code. Is there ever a reason to have more than two? < 1549757172 784693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... define "active" < 1549757201 948840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean something like, you pass two stack pointers to procedures in two registers, and it's part of the calling convention or something. < 1549757211 185882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really a precise word. < 1549757220 399353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use one tape as a buffer to hold the CA state along with markers around the start end end of the state... and you could swap between them based on whether or not you read the marker. < 1549757236 20710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have coroutines more than two of those may be involved in any particular computation and they may each want to do their own recursive stuff < 1549757261 307833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's the kind of thing I was trying to avoid with the vague word "active". < 1549757293 556330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the compiler/calling only ever has to know about two stacks, and the switching between them would be done in user code or something. < 1549757294 32557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :generator ( | transducer )* | consumer < 1549757319 174097 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you read X from tape A, write Y to tape B, move head A right.", "If you read X from tape B, write Y to tape A, move head B right." < 1549757326 3249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also does anyone actually implement coroutines using two stacks? < 1549757349 30327 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to prefer cooperative multitasking and use state machines. < 1549757373 450654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about cooperative multitasking, and about ways of expressing these state machines nicely. < 1549757391 280022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're not finite state machines, because there's a stack. But you could bound the size of the stack and prohibit recursion. < 1549757402 266179 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why *two*? < 1549757433 357887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the usual implementation technique for coroutines involves only one stack. Right? < 1549757434 191029 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :each coroutine should have its own stack, in principle... < 1549757442 542214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the context switch switches to a new stack. < 1549757461 857090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you want to use two. < 1549757476 27941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then various things are stored in the coroutine stack that could just go on the main stack because they never yield. < 1549757502 576709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means you get a lot of unnecessary cache misses, and also the stacks need to be bigger for no real reason. < 1549757550 124048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also get things like https://marcan.st/2017/12/debugging-an-evil-go-runtime-bug/ < 1549757569 519481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you like, Haskell does that... the "main" stack is almost exclusively for FFI; all the coroutine stacks are managed on the heap. < 1549757590 391968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but if you're using Haskell you've already given up on performance. < 1549757631 343466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not really. I've given up a factor of 3-10, depending on what I'm doing. Less when working with big integers. < 1549757655 731953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think about the "optimal" way of writing an asynchronous task, it probably involves giving the task some fixed-size block of memory, and doing regular computation in the regular stack. < 1549757697 869243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to approach something like that but with nicer code. < 1549757721 504199 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to work on a small-scale network of automata that can communicate. < 1549757760 811568 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative multitasking with round-robin scheduling is pretty much my go-to. instead of trying to cram code into an automata framework, I'd rather just use automata. < 1549757793 758454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automata can be awkward to write. < 1549757811 517040 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but so can assembly. < 1549757830 993585 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that automata are composable. state tables can be arbitrarily wired up. < 1549757853 936609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I want something which is neither automata nor assembly. < 1549757864 8278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build simple machines from smaller state tables. < 1549757871 358638 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then more complex machines from those simple machines. < 1549757912 752758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So compile to state machines. I suspect that this is something people actually do in this context (for tightly coupled coroutines. not threads.) < 1549757938 886624 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly my thought. I'm planning on not breaking that thread of modeling, though. LSL from Second Life does some similar stuff. < 1549757959 642951 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning, every script is a state machine with some internal stuff. you have to model things in terms of states. < 1549758059 135059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I actually think that the principle of the Haskell analogy is sound, that is, to manage a coroutine local stack on a heap, possibly as a linked list. In many cases where you care about performance this will degenerate into doing a single allocation of a block that stores all the state for the whole lifetime of the coroutine invocation. < 1549758145 739410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, the thing GHC does is more or less reasonable at a high level. < 1549758147 737612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :To my mind the stack switching approach is mainly attractive because it doesn't require much (if any) compiler support. < 1549758164 41396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had compiler support and also cared about performance, what would you do? < 1549758198 370793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the answer would look a lot like having two stacks. Though maybe you should care about performance even more, prohibit recursion, and statically bound the size of the stack. < 1549758323 255476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9tlJAqMV7U was inspiring in this context. < 1549758346 589261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the new C++ thing? < 1549758369 43804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's more about the power of static analysis < 1549758380 16132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be in the right direction though I haven't looked at the details. < 1549758402 726266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM has a coroutine thing that looked reasonable at a high level though the details might've been a bit weird. I don't remember anymore. < 1549758793 221390 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549758884 94650 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh he gives a lot of talks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fu0gx-xseY may be the one that I actually watched? I don't recall precisely. < 1549758925 818810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't watch a talk right now but I'll look later. < 1549758936 880104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a spoiler for why the overhead is negative? < 1549759048 238591 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549759061 657215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vague idea was that the compiler gets more information from statically analysing the coroutines than it did from analysing a hand-written state machine. And it did its own state-machine, while preserving the improved static analysis information. < 1549759147 207679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't think that the talk fully explained it. It does make for an amazing punchline though. ("We wrote high-level code, and the compiled result was better than our hand-optimized low-level (but still C++) code.") < 1549759246 162473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I recall, this falls into the category where the coroutines are tightly coupled, and only need finite state. < 1549759369 63899 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kind of wondering whether this kind of thing can be implemented well as a pretty straightforward macro, but I think the answer is no, you want compiler support to do it well. < 1549759437 744671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this one collection of language ideas I've been trying to figure out, stack memory allocation for variables is explicit, alloca-style. < 1549759446 740782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, just "a pretty straightforward macro" is where all the downwards spirals to crazy preprocessing magic starts with < 1549759468 965837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, that's not straightforward anymore, is it hth < 1549759475 924951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( just a simple recursively defined template ) < 1549759498 980585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "x := Var(int)", where x is a (const) pointer to a stack-allocated memory location. < 1549759511 23806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "x := Var(0)" or whatever < 1549759605 301235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a thing like that isn't enough. < 1549759683 989319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549759761 757725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.afjarvis.staff.shef.ac.uk/sudoku/sudoku2.cc features a template static inline void search(); < 1549759802 476364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which inspired the "just a simple recursively defined template" thought. < 1549759812 121336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005, so long ago... < 1549759830 662827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish C++ had a way to pass an argument either at compile-time or at runtime. < 1549759879 870228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason C++ people love to do complicated recursive things with templates. < 1549759885 507715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just, y'know, a for loop < 1549759963 793254 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549760000 798225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that particular thing generates up to 81 nested for loops. < 1549760033 889325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure I would do it quite that way anymore. Probably not :) < 1549760077 924190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i,i for (int i = 0; i < 81; i++) { printf("for (int i%d = 0; i%d < k; i%d++) {\n", i, i, i); } < 1549760096 559903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1549760180 486560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is good at doing things like that? Plus isn't lisp. < 1549760205 263907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd happily use Haskell to generate C code. < 1549760218 430696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean something slightly nicer than string generation. < 1549760230 146080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like quasiquoting, I guess? < 1549760240 478588 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quasiquoting but not lisp? i don't know any < 1549760243 111115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But statically typed with a reasonable idea of eventually generating a compiled program. < 1549760253 830785 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose metaocaml < 1549760258 652033 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549760377 892490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c maybe? < 1549760401 82100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's the same language as the language you're generating code for. < 1549760435 722240 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkbhkahaiepddfnw JOIN :#esoteric < 1549760508 375316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Template Haskell isn't all that bad. But it would defeat the purpose of generating nested loops for sudoku enumeration in the first place, which was performance. :P < 1549760530 248283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterpoint: template haskell is all that bad < 1549760538 224986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-src-meta < 1549760542 880254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ignoring performance < 1549760594 980724 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1549760633 415140 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549760641 569063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1549760680 990738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you used the fancy variadic templates in C++11? < 1549762384 669440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess more widespread coroutines might be useful for other uses. < 1549762408 479504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly nicer than using callbacks for a lot of things? < 1549762425 529824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, a function that wants to request more memory from the caller mid-execution. Do people do things like that? < 1549762581 310748 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1549763293 571556 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549763474 767666 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: either it just returns an error telling how much memory it needs, like snprintf, or it calls an allocator callback < 1549763500 570231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're asking about coroutine < 1549763504 402338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549763531 811400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-117.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549765406 260571 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549765653 252808 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549768218 337202 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkbhkahaiepddfnw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549768384 960722 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549768538 983084 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a generalized version of finite automata would have transitions labeled with try/assett statements. < 1549768559 169754 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/assett/assert < 1549768577 18048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a kind of scow generalization tdnh < 1549768592 322810 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :scow? :P < 1549768602 563320 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :..boat? < 1549768637 944563 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549768712 70144 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme elaborate: any given entry for a state table would look like `in if then and go to ` < 1549768739 655766 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think someone's come up with that... abstract state machines or something. < 1549769271 212289 :biscayne!c6366dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.54.109.234 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549769682 369611 :biscayne!c6366dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.54.109.234 PART :#esoteric > 1549769903 769129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Trance14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59789&oldid=59788 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-9) 10 < 1549770580 122090 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of one chess variant can be Thue-Morse chess, similar to Marseillais chess but you don't always get a extra turn. < 1549770589 786484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how well it is work) < 1549770630 474478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you play this kind of chess? > 1549771964 315985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59790&oldid=59751 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-6) 10Colon include syntax in glasm < 1549772608 229371 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549774151 847007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Vague <-- i think Cortex may be parodying certain other users... < 1549774215 202926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh man, this is tg < 1549774856 256849 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549775128 274101 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1549775367 133399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59791&oldid=59782 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10abcelmrs > 1549775813 654341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hurgusburgus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59792&oldid=58667 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (-197) 10It's really a deque, I will continue tomorrow, don't touch < 1549777484 611265 :ashirase_!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549777748 876795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Watching the video now. Compared to this std::future lambda code, sure, I can see that coroutines would be faster. < 1549777771 114751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he's writing it as a state machine, never mind. < 1549778143 476079 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549778405 531890 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549779608 149988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I bet if you were comparing to C code rather than C++ code it would go the other way. < 1549779689 837430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549783334 460785 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549783596 388529 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549783838 763496 :liuqingyao!~liuqingya@183.213.160.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549784179 143401 :liuqingyao!~liuqingya@183.213.160.96 QUIT : < 1549785954 703757 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549790304 834477 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-tkjeugmbuermrpam QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549790353 778103 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gowymjruswjihgsu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549790581 870598 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549791650 566952 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549791836 276354 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549792114 330210 :Arsal!~Arsal@175.107.216.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549792925 357911 :Arsal1!~Arsal@42.201.130.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549793077 815402 :ashirase_!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549793128 252525 :Arsal!~Arsal@175.107.216.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549793607 677082 :ashirase!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1549794236 161993 :Arsal1!~Arsal@42.201.130.203 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549795654 530926 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549795782 753842 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'll make no bets. What I see is a potential to do better lifetime analysis of variables when starting out with coroutines (if you loop over { A; yield x; B; yield y; } then you know exactly which variables need to be preserved over the course of the first and second yield respectively. A C compiler would have to basically recover the coroutines to do that. That is, given a state... < 1549795788 744345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...machine, it has to figure out that after the basic block A, it will never reach A again without first reaching B. That's doable in theory, sure, but I doubt it's done. < 1549797396 545864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549797584 456351 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549797900 340304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I still think that any version that adds extra turns without serious limitations to chess probably makes it less interesting. In fact, the creators of chess knew this, yet wanted to speed up the early game, < 1549797938 591409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they didn't just add unlimited extra turns, but a restricted variant where you can move the same pawn forward twice from the starting position. < 1549798005 697495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problems include that pieces often attack too much of the board if you can take two moves with them; and that if you have two moves and the opponent then has one, then it's very easy to set up a double attack that the opponent can't defend. < 1549802858 411197 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1549803118 151300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitwise Trance14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59793 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+709) 10Created page with "== Turing completeness == I'm not sure this really is a Turing complete language. Sure, it works fine as an FSM, but you run into problems when you start storing data. You wil..." > 1549803657 538921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Trance14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59794&oldid=59789 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+109) 10/* Empty program */ < 1549803850 843730 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549803876 256009 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549804325 859340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitwise Trance14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59795&oldid=59793 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+183) 10/* Turing completeness */ < 1549804362 343427 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549804962 901652 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549809776 774191 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iddqfnvefrtnzcgn JOIN :#esoteric > 1549811517 804408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitwise Trance14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59796&oldid=59795 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1610) 10bignum arithmetic seems impossible to directly implement; however you could probably get a program to copy itself in memory and expand the addresses in the process, despite not being able to address things much larger than itself < 1549814620 250606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the scifi future, when people won't have fridges and freezers that cool food, but will instead simply have a stasis box that sends food forwards in time to the next time the door is opened, < 1549814625 548117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :will ice cubes in drinks turn from something ordinary that people make at home to something you only have in restaurants and bars? < 1549814676 206129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or will people once again buy ice (or get it delivered to them in some futuristic way, whatever) and put it into the stasis box so it doesn't melt? < 1549815730 982801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1549816435 4760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hurgusburgus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59797&oldid=59792 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (-14) 10Done < 1549818468 747700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe people buying ice cubes might be less common then but some people might still have a use for it < 1549818761 341437 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iddqfnvefrtnzcgn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549820236 615286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could certainly add restrictions into a chess variant that adds extra turns, and there are different ways to add how many extra turns < 1549820316 196940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe extra turns are overpowered in every well-designed multiplayer tabletop game, because if they weren't, then it would have been designed with more moves allowed per turn to make it more fluid < 1549820652 863252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :YYes, it may be < 1549820861 486514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wanted to use Esolang:Sandbox, and suddenly realizes it is not linked from any menus < 1549821137 792981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also just to enter the name directly (or add it to some menu if you prefer that) < 1549821631 410118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if I should modify the *list commands to know which strips have been listed, and refuse to list a strip again if it's been listed already < 1549821672 413783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/CreeepyJoe/status/1094656141173305344 < 1549821719 62369 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Compilers already do the thing you're describing, don't they? < 1549821743 139572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not for coroutines but for regular stack usage. < 1549821788 131316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd change olist to do like echo -n "http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots$1.html"; if ! test "$1" || ! grep -qxFe "$1" var/list-ids/olist; then echo -n ": "; tail -n+3 "$0" ; else echo " was already listed"; exit 1; fi < 1549821804 419369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I'd test the shell script and fix all the errors < 1549821819 302117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it also has to say echo "$1" > var/list-ids/olist somewhere < 1549821849 733649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would like save the strip numbers to a file in the version control, and not ping people unless the strip is new < 1549821866 22407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I wouldn't have to check the channel logs to tell if a strip has already been listed < 1549821872 883612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this applies not only to olist, but also pbflist < 1549821876 961520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others < 1549821896 311915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does my honorable and learned friend fungot think about that idea? < 1549821896 769699 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this has not been very good, and i am? with putin! the european union at the time that is not without a cost, and the fact of the matter is of course is the best security that the nation is the party of not planning. may i, in the nicest. < 1549822029 547184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1549822030 375577 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::#,_@ \ a.out \ bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom < 1549822071 305896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like a commit on every list < 1549822087 87682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, y'know, `list, where it's unavoidable < 1549822199 339931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe like that but keep the state in unversioned storage. < 1549822223 688344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1549822375 609608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered doing that before. < 1549822449 374366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it could be on just certain lists < 1549822457 789406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like olists and pbflists < 1549822464 847977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only on successful ones with an argument < 1549822472 305182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to commit for a failed or a no-arg one < 1549822482 251939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean a three-way if but so what < 1549822515 892764 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1549822549 197846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does unversioned state work these days? is it just persistent, but doesn't get reverted when the bot redoes a stateful command? < 1549822568 135315 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lost whenever hackego is migrated to a new owner? < 1549822572 235439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, by the way < 1549822604 486717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other possibility, using Netsubscribe, storing the state by adding objects into a Netsubscribe database; if the object ID is telling what is being notified then you can easily check for duplicates < 1549822609 136818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a list that's triggered whenever the previous host or maintainer of hackego gives up and the next one reincarnates it from a backup with a slightly different name? < 1549822625 792567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um, how would you put that in hackeso? < 1549822685 653375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think hackeso has that capability, although it would be possible to use with IRC. < 1549822712 133100 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But about hackeso, if you need to copy any unversioned files then I suppose you can do so before moving it < 1549822724 365059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you have enough advance notice) < 1549822736 29566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's just a directory. It doesn't participate in the redo in any special way (so "mv" out from it is unsafe), and will be lost if you have to migrate without access to the previous instance. < 1549822823 674904 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549823047 603855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally you could maintain independent backups in "wget -m" style (in parallel with cloning https://hack.esolangs.org/repo) but I had to turn off nginx "autoindex" option to avoid an information leak -- there's no way to turn off following symlinks for the generated index page, so it could be used to get sizes of files outside the directory. < 1549823644 435855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but wouldn't that mean that if I tried to store this status there, and the *list command is re-ran, then it would falsely assume that the strip has been listed already, and we'd lose pings? < 1549823686 787843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in theory, the bot could have a directory that is reverted when a command is redone, but that isn't version-controlled. I don't know if we'd want that though. < 1549823720 567107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might abuse it, in exactly the ways that the version repo is supposed to prevent < 1549823740 951368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me < 1549823762 78281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if I put a file in hgignore, would it also behave just like a file in /tmp ? < 1549823925 589206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, if someone, uh, "accidentally" moved everything from /hackenv to /tmp in one command, then moved everything back but also set everything to be hgignored in the next command, in order to break version control, how quickly would people notice that? < 1549823938 440361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, say, someone did that in private message < 1549824333 738295 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1549824376 926765 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pyqztiqjptktsqne JOIN :#esoteric > 1549824494 93996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fractran14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59798&oldid=57538 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1324) 10Something I thought of when pondering [[Echo Tag]]: Squeezing fraction size < 1549824899 340610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: In the normal case a *list command wouldn't ever re-run, because the only modifications it would do would be in tmp/, so there would be nothing to commit. There might be some race conditions though; with concurrent commands you might indeed lose some pings. < 1549824905 783123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: And .hgignore is read-only now. Or, rather, automatically reverted to its pristine state right before any commit, since it couldn't really be made read-only, since it's not a directory. < 1549825036 952138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I was looking for an option to disable .hgignore and instead configure tmp/ in .hg/hgrc instead, but didn't find one.) < 1549825092 709148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the non-versioned persistent storage is tmp/ aka /hackenv/tmp/, plain /tmp is not persistent across commands.) < 1549825158 261892 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549825491 579944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1549825504 408084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's automatically reverted? nice < 1549825528 844158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hg doesn't have that? doesn't it have a way to, like, tell what the name of that file is? Istr git had some such config < 1549825582 427044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a way to set up additional ignore files. < 1549825602 453024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the documentation, it didn't seem like there was a way to disable the default .hgignore though. < 1549825606 421016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549825607 587430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't actually try this. < 1549825618 393365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know hg really < 1549825644 13689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackeso is where I used it the most, plus I've used it to clone a few other repos from the internet where people distribute some files only that way < 1549825674 758195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under the [ui] section, there's a config key 'ignore': "A file to read per-user ignore patterns from. This file should be in the same format as a repository-wide .hgignore file. Filenames are relative to the repository root. This option supports hook syntax, so if you want to specify multiple ignore files, you can do so by setting something like ignore.other = ~/.hgignore2." < 1549825693 343162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "as a repository-wide .hgignore file" sounded like it meant that's always there. < 1549825726 955845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's possible setting ui.ignore in the per-repository .hgrc would actually control that. < 1549825731 284594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but does hg at least not allow .hgignore files in any directory? < 1549825740 473417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at the repo top, right? < 1549825742 381050 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one per repo < 1549825787 661397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, only at the repository root. If you want to put a .hgignore in a subdirectory, the documentation recommends "subinclude"ing it in the root .hgignore. < 1549825799 158402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549825833 867314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, reverting the .hgignore file is a bit messy, it needs to manually remove it first if someone replaces it with a directory tree. < 1549825835 276468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense, I guess. that you can put one anywhere is mostly useful for repos where you often do partial checkouts, eg. in cvs and svn < 1549825891 477946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, recursively (chmod then remove) < 1549826037 379001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happened if someone made tmp a symlink to . < 1549826106 54780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That kind of questions are exactly why we can't have nice things.) < 1549826129 432377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would do anything really < 1549826134 774788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg wouldn't even notice where it points < 1549826268 299395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know, I've ran bots too, but I think me just asking won't make it worse < 1549826687 948869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, it's still on the TODO list (though not up top) to allow (whitelisted, proxied) HTTP requests out of HackEso. It was possible at HackEgo at some point, though not for the last years. < 1549826798 935317 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may wish to later add other protocols too, although that would also need whitelisted too. < 1549826989 194364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is hackeso intended to be a bot strictly for this channel, or is it on the todo list to allow it to join other channels where it's invited? < 1549827081 325083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It's pretty channel-agnostic, I know HackEgo was on more than one channel. < 1549827102 477374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feels like it should be only on channels I'm on, though, just to keep an eye on it. < 1549827120 661907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course the repo and such are under the .esolangs.org domain. < 1549827133 365950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the answer is probably "don't know". < 1549827140 523761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549827162 162936 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess technically I could just make a proxy bot that forwards between a channel and HackEso private message both ways < 1549828168 429591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point I was writing a "z80bot", which was to be a somewhat hackbot-style thing, except using an (emulated) Z80 core, with a system call API to a versioned filesystem (read/write-style, but also to map "ROM" pages from), and internet, and whatever else wouldn't be practical to implement internally. < 1549828218 77392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got that about three-quarters done, with the (homegrown) Z80 emulator, the filesystem bits, and yet another IRC client library done, before abandoing it. < 1549828269 944491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think very many people would've spent time using it though. It's a bit bigger barrier to entry than with hackbot. < 1549828285 760277 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun < 1549828290 195443 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it run CP/M? < 1549828326 172523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, how much RAM? < 1549828346 552956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might not matter since it has access to a file system < 1549828351 382764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or TI-OS? < 1549828367 925939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some porting would be necessary, since it wouldn't have any of the expected hardware by those systems. < 1549828376 339019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part with these bots is always figuring out what it's allowed to do on IRC by users' commands < 1549828426 630241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was intending it to have just the directly addressable 64k of RAM, with the top one quarter (C000..FFFF) mappable as a ROM page from the filesystem. < 1549828449 259393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549828460 557702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :z80 has a separate IO address space, right < 1549828493 886617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what kind of interface would it use for accessing the filesystem? a "modern" unix/dos2 one with open, close, read, write calls? < 1549828509 612083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, it has a separate I/O space, though only with 8 bits of addressing. < 1549828531 575481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dos2/dos3/ < 1549828560 847501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syscall API had the usual read/write/seek calls, so you could access large files with (relative) ease. < 1549828584 327667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With both 16- and 32-bit variants for seek/tell.) < 1549828615 862459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 64-bit variants? < 1549828635 607087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. I would've had some sort of quota for it. < 1549828636 570476 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549828743 254970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would hit you back ten years later when most of the utilities developed up to that time can only deal with 32-bit files, and there's no sane way to recompile them to handle 64-bit files. like what's happend in unix. < 1549828781 631572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then again when 2038 is nearing and you still have programs storing expoch second timestamps in int32_t < 1549828787 411388 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549828806 513055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem < 1549828807 191143 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :robots will kill us all before then < 1549828812 173583 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549828820 193044 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like we need robots for doing that < 1549828843 699538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the robots using the bot will curse you for having made such a stupid design < 1549828846 142214 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1549828850 162429 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think I have read is that 64-bit Linux uses 64-bit timestamps, but, the filesystem does not support 64-bit timestamps. < 1549828877 714251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that's more or less the current state, but it used to be worse < 1549828895 602464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we're mostly past the 32 bit file offset problem too < 1549828898 968657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I had a quick look at the LLVM optimization passes overview at https://llvm.org/docs/Passes.html and none of that sounds like it would be able to reconstruct the coroutine basic blocks (and their sequencing, which would then enable liveness analysis on that level) from a state machine. < 1549828909 808136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both of them caused a lot of trouble some time ago < 1549828928 196219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's never anything as simple as "unix uses ... timestamps" < 1549828937 597829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like a hundred different ways things on unix use timestamps < 1549828943 551632 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :different apis and stuff < 1549828947 56927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to upgrade the filesystem to one that does support 64-bit timestamps? I do not need it right now, but maybe in eighteen years, will help < 1549828958 657144 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICBMs with nuclear warheads are on the doomsday menu again. < 1549828964 714744 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :again? < 1549828966 148203 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they always were < 1549828984 604901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the file system, I'm more afraid of when the FAT timestamps run out. there still seems to be no plan to fix that, and there's no obvious way to fix it < 1549828990 307187 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally do not understand how anyone who works on nuclear weapons lives with themself < 1549828992 500001 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sure but they were not advertised as such :P < 1549828999 899486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to ask the chef. < 1549829006 359450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do the FAT timestamps run out? < 1549829007 343812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because windows 95 OSR2 was so reckless as to use up all bytes in the 32 byte directory entries, so there's no place to extend them now < 1549829016 147564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 2028-01-01 I think < 1549829019 467776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in local time < 1549829027 344136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the mtime, but nobody cares about the other two timestamps < 1549829029 771512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that goes double for things like Project Pluto which were explicitly designed to kill as many civilians as possible and poison the earth < 1549829072 56718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it started as a 7-bit year field within a 16-bit date field, and that 7-bit year field stores the date as an integer giving a two digit year < 1549829087 586053 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about ntfs < 1549829119 598147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were the FAT timestamps those with the odd (or, rather, even) two-second accuracy? < 1549829139 116046 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we can change all the fs drivers to treat them rolling over, so 0 would get interpreted as 2028 instead of 1900 < 1549829154 43863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, because the time of day is also a 16-bit field < 1549829165 726223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's more than 65536 seconds in a day < 1549829183 908193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they made it 5 bits for the hour, 6 bits for the minute, 5 bits for half of the second < 1549829247 439410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimized for speed on the 8088 obviously < 1549829334 84157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it might be DOS 2 after all, not DOS 3, that started to have unix-like read/write calls after all < 1549830916 627712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: No, not from a state machine, I mean that optimization already exists for stack allocation in non-coroutine code. < 1549830932 273536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you can do it by hand if you really cared, though, instead of using a struct. < 1549830943 327414 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did file IO work before that < 1549831008 442545 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes that exists but I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in a mechanism that would help a compiler starting from coroutines compared to a compiler that is facing a manually crafted corresponding state machine. < 1549831021 194175 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think old DOS uses file control blocks for file I/O < 1549831039 959272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure. < 1549831072 702409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I think you can still craft a state machine manually that would be as good. < 1549831095 772069 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :iopl < 1549831135 735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each state could have its own memory layout and you'd do the liveness analysis and so on yourself. Or something. < 1549831210 214163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: DOS1 had inherited the kind of IO from CP/M where (1) there's no close, the file descriptor is a fixed size structure, and more importantly, (2) read and write work in fixed size blocks, you can't choose how many bytes to read and write, (3) file size is tracked by the fs in block granularity, not byte granularity < 1549831243 967143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's on a floppy disk, so it's less strange than the tape IO, which has variable sized blocks < 1549831258 767788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends < 1549831265 76019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can have fixed sized blocks on tape too < 1549831290 568015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there were no directories, or rather, only one per drive < 1549831297 373538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549831346 180639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why text files in DOS used to have an extra "EOF" byte at the end, so they can be read by very old programs that use the CP/M calls and wouldn't know how many characters there are in the last sector < 1549831353 986638 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a computer that ran what I think was an old version of DOS, or similar < 1549831357 189406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TRS-80 Model 100 < 1549831363 929166 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which has nothing to do with the other trash-80s) < 1549831368 323524 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a cool machine < 1549831446 254081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ^Z < 1549831447 743814 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Z? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549831504 502585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one more difference < 1549831526 410925 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a laptop from 1983 that's *actually portable*, all solid state storage, indestructable, instant boot, 16 hours battery life < 1549831555 757451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the unix-like interface, DOS introduced the unix idea of how programs can use the console device with the same read/write calls as you use for disk files < 1549831559 829047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and printers as well < 1549831576 608960 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a good keyboard < 1549831579 235520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the serial console < 1549831595 161564 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, in terms of CPU and RAM it was quite underpowered compared to desktops of the day and the luggables < 1549831606 125347 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't run real business software < 1549831619 773026 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still very good at certain niches, such as traveling journalists < 1549831636 366380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a traveling journalist need a computer? < 1549831663 438878 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write text with the built in word processor and then send it back to the home office at 300 baud, using an acoustic coupler in your hotel room :P < 1549831670 3654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1549831708 867823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that makes sense < 1549831743 98140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah "luggable" < 1549831756 816310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( better bring a cart? :) ) < 1549831759 569245 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a basic BASIC too, you could do cool things like scripting the terminal program to log you in automatically, etc < 1549831782 733073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess they envisioned it for portable POS use b/c it has a barcode reader, you could make your own POS software in BASIC i suppose < 1549831801 815970 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it had expansion ROMs for other programs < 1549831843 349866 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it did have PEEK and POKE, so you could probably have additional native code programs in RAM, and load them from the tape port with a BASIC stub < 1549831864 484604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the RAM is limited and is also the only built-in 'nonvolatile' storage (via backup battery) < 1549831877 351841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it had instant on, like a graphing calculator < 1549831917 4755 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was already obsolete by the time I was born, but I had a hand-me-down and got many hours of fun out of it < 1549831922 649395 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can still remember how the leather case smelled < 1549831934 23733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how smells stay with you for life. < 1549831967 38968 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I loaded / saved programs into the Windows 95 sound recorder program, using the tape cable < 1549831986 268409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1549831992 640879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds wasteful < 1549832000 130997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes sense < 1549832015 244938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you have a proper casette recorder? < 1549832021 313449 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, less wasteful than a real casette recorder < 1549832027 231218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1549832027 432086 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that'd be more authentic < 1549832034 713488 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i didn't have to buy tapes :P < 1549832036 436775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it less wasteful? < 1549832040 478704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might have been able to do it on my dad's boombox < 1549832044 796178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stores the wave forms uncompressed < 1549832048 416393 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a bunch of transistors you have sitting around anyway is not really waste < 1549832049 205417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't store much on a disk that way < 1549832051 418993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true < 1549832060 449377 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i didn't have that many programs < 1549832060 557793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few casettes would store more < 1549832064 717827 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each one was < 30 seconds of audio < 1549832067 368085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just one < 1549832070 509431 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I bet you could dither them to 8 bits < 1549832072 397778 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't try tho < 1549832078 210723 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even back then I had a 1 GB hard drive < 1549832097 259656 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the cable, my dad took me to radio shack -- this would have been mid to late 90s -- and they were shocked that someone was there to buy an accessory for a 15 year old computer, and even more shocked that they actually had one in the back room, in decaying packaging < 1549832099 320238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but even with one gigabyte of hard drive < 1549832103 16918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a program that can convert the sound files to/from a more compact recording of the programs? < 1549832106 336518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( did it come on a truck? ) < 1549832106 647171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not more than a few recordable tapes < 1549832112 564683 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, but it would probably be pretty easy to make < 1549832113 909513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can only record an hour or two on that < 1549832123 935707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had more recordable casettes than that when I was a child < 1549832135 952478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mid to late 90s... fine < 1549832178 679410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i did much more BASIC programming on TI calcs < 1549832179 967761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC around that time HDD sizes doubled every two years. < 1549832200 451513 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I could easily take it to school, and mess around in math class while pretending to work on the material I'd already finished :P < 1549832203 441388 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'd believe it < 1549832211 267319 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TI calculators were also more capable in many ways < 1549832219 497802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah < 1549832747 871953 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pyqztiqjptktsqne QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549832779 708053 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-legmbsazkncousky JOIN :#esoteric < 1549834516 712786 :ashirase!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549835726 532490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549836273 411798 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1549836368 47828 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1549837713 229707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$F,">tmp/perm10"; @a=0..9;for$s(1..3628800){ print$F"@a\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; warn "done" < 1549837714 358694 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :String found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "$F"@a\n"" \ (Missing operator before "@a\n"?) \ File size limit exceeded < 1549837720 344376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$F,">tmp/perm10"; @a=0..9;for$s(1..3628800){ print$F "@a\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; warn "done" < 1549837721 532450 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :File size limit exceeded < 1549837725 578727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1549837735 965136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$F,">tmp/perm10"; @a=0..9;for$s(1..3628800){ print$F join("",@a),"\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; warn "done" < 1549837737 511005 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :File size limit exceeded < 1549837755 572183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ulimit -f < 1549837756 279871 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10240 < 1549837778 742671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that ten megabytes or five megabytes? < 1549837790 461362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549837796 982730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it's too small for this < 1549837799 749582 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1549837813 150564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 I guess < 1549837874 397398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAOCP 7.2.1 says "No sensible person would want to make a list of the 10! = 3,628,800 permutations of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9} by printing them out on thousands of sheets of paper, nor even by writing them all in a computer file." < 1549837891 902289 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the sort of thing #esoteric would want to do then < 1549837911 794516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the 5 megabyte limit makes it impossible < 1549837915 893920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on hackeso that is < 1549837918 898777 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so < 1549838011 911674 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ permutations [0..9] >>= (++ "\n") . (>>= show) < 1549838018 101330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1549838025 775557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ permutations [1..9] >>= (++ "\n") . (>>= show) < 1549838028 695908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3628800 < 1549838037 679411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$F,"|wc"; @a=0..9;for$s(1..3628800){ print$F "@a\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; warn "done" < 1549838044 571012 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :done at -e line 1. \ 3628800 36288000 72576000 < 1549838060 396340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$F,"|wc"; @a=0..9;for$s(1..3628800){ print$F join("",@a),"\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; warn "done" < 1549838064 836308 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :done at -e line 1. \ 3628800 3628800 39916800 < 1549838106 143920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should also consider the age of TAoCP. < 1549838124 858278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: volume 4 isn't old < 1549838137 175521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't say that it can't be done, it says it's not worth < 1549838173 929086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that it's not what you usually want when you're asking for generating all permutations < 1549838177 537446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does make for a fun compression benchmark < 1549838186 43792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vol 4 handles some pretty big tasks < 1549838192 812218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :4A really < 1549838359 532235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip -9: 1620145, bzip2 -9: 1150986, xz -9: 48068 ... wow?! < 1549838385 649817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: which order of permutations is that? the one I gave, or the one you gave? < 1549838392 744005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you gave < 1549838408 442575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with spaces and newlines < 1549838415 508485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549838446 469567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e@a=0..5;for$s(1..999){ print join("",@a),"\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; < 1549838447 164152 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :012345 \ 102345 \ 201345 \ 021345 \ 120345 \ 210345 \ 310245 \ 130245 \ 031245 \ 301245 \ 103245 \ 013245 \ 213045 \ 123045 \ 321045 \ 231045 \ 132045 \ 312045 \ 012345 \ 102345 \ 201345 \ 021345 \ 120345 \ 210345 \ 410325 \ 140325 \ 041325 \ 401325 \ 104325 \ 014325 \ 314025 \ 134025 \ 431025 \ 341025 \ 143025 \ 413025 \ 013425 \ 103425 \ 301425 \ 031425 \ 130425 \ 310425 \ 410325 \ 140325 \ 041325 \ 401325 \ 104325 \ 014325 \ 214305 \ 124305 \ 421305 \ 2 < 1549838472 501512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e@a=0..4;for$s(1..120){ print join("",@a),"\n";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; < 1549838473 171148 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01234 \ 10234 \ 20134 \ 02134 \ 12034 \ 21034 \ 31024 \ 13024 \ 03124 \ 30124 \ 10324 \ 01324 \ 21304 \ 12304 \ 32104 \ 23104 \ 13204 \ 31204 \ 01234 \ 10234 \ 20134 \ 02134 \ 12034 \ 21034 \ 41032 \ 14032 \ 04132 \ 40132 \ 10432 \ 01432 \ 31402 \ 13402 \ 43102 \ 34102 \ 14302 \ 41302 \ 01342 \ 10342 \ 30142 \ 03142 \ 13042 \ 31042 \ 41032 \ 14032 \ 04132 \ 40132 \ 10432 \ 01432 \ 21430 \ 12430 \ 42130 \ 24130 \ 14230 \ 41230 \ 31240 \ 13240 \ 23140 \ 3214 < 1549838488 837908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e@a=0..4;for$s(1..120){ print join("",@a)," ";$k=$s;$m=2;$k/=$m++until$k%$m;@a[0,$m-1]=@a[$m-1,0]; }; < 1549838489 467345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01234 10234 20134 02134 12034 21034 31024 13024 03124 30124 10324 01324 21304 12304 32104 23104 13204 31204 01234 10234 20134 02134 12034 21034 41032 14032 04132 40132 10432 01432 31402 13402 43102 34102 14302 41302 01342 10342 30142 03142 13042 31042 41032 14032 04132 40132 10432 01432 21430 12430 42130 24130 14230 41230 31240 13240 23140 32140 12340 21340 41320 14320 34120 43120 13420 31420 21430 12430 42130 24130 14230 41230 01234 10234 20134 02134 1203 < 1549838506 501051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even all permutations < 1549838509 694834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has repetitions < 1549838512 823552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're cheating < 1549838519 606073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I'm cheating < 1549838556 554255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I was going to check that... and that does explain the good compression, I guess. < 1549838672 926017 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the Haskell thing (newline, no spaces), gzip -9: 7913058; bzip2 -9: 9620381; xz -9: 1562180. < 1549838790 240073 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with spaces: gzip -9: 9525275; bzip2 -9: 9846341; xz -9: 2242728. < 1549838808 128500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about with (7z a -mx=9 -sia kts-Ae6seFQj.7z; cat kts-Ae6seFQj.7z) ? < 1549838841 80647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(7z won't compress to a pipe, so I'm using a temporary file here) < 1549838867 527240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you're saying gzip -9 rather than gzip -c9 so I don't have to cat it < 1549838891 529401 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm piping into it. < 1549838914 107720 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :piping into it is fine, it can take the uncompressed input in a pipe < 1549838926 350501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just can't put or take the compressed file from a pipie < 1549838945 892410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for compressing, it can read from a pipe, for decompressing it can write to a pipe < 1549838954 550999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive size: 1759018 bytes (1718 KiB) < 1549838973 477946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! so it does sometimes win over xz < 1549839394 450490 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549840154 929878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I wonder whether there's a test program to run benchmarks with. < 1549840556 535549 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549841236 840073 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549841386 876492 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549841442 970697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's 10 megabytes; bash ulimit -f is in 1024 byte units, except when in Posix mode. < 1549841446 914047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ulimit -f; sh -c "ulimit -f" < 1549841447 681598 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10240 \ 20480 < 1549841453 203958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checks out. < 1549841521 400666 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmpf < 1549841524 858725 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549841560 690674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what's sh there? < 1549841563 27292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l $(which sh) < 1549841563 934123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Jan 24 2017 /bin/sh -> dash < 1549841599 218955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Debian thing. < 1549841736 71523 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat /bin/sh < 1549841736 838766 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF............>.....�7......@.......�..........@.8. .@.........@.......@.......@.......�.......�....................8......8......8...........................................................��......��........ ............��......��!.....��!.....�......�>........ ...........h�......h�!.....h�!.....�.......�....................T......T......T......D.......D..............P�td...f......f......f......�......�.............Q < 1549841764 456226 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1549841773 286845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you gotta cat that < 1549841879 306498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cat < 1549841880 438114 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats are cool, but should be illegal. < 1549841885 887697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1549841890 940978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1549841891 687652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree < 1549841893 179829 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:precision//78.75211317% of the time precision is totally overrated. \ gene ray//Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA. \ web access//Sorry, Ha < 1549841898 725366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1549841899 456903 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ckEgo's sandbox currently has no web access. However, see `? `fetch \ type system//type system = kitten \ bugbear//A bugbear is a teddy bear that you can explain your bugs to. < 1549841935 509957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `fetch < 1549841936 627543 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch [] downloads files, and is the only web access currently available in HackEgo. It is a special builtin that cannot be called from other commands. See also `edit. < 1549842071 712368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grwp -l HackEgo < 1549842072 682589 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! \ `# \ `fetch \ guarantee \ hackego \ hackeso \ `help \ `hoag \ list \ med \ print_args_or_input \ ruddy \ `run \ source \ test \ tmp \ web access \ zarutian < 1549842077 926021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than I thought. < 1549842092 435147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah thanks < 1549842107 295957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549842123 764031 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zarutian < 1549842125 820945 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers. He is also known for making rather long HackEgo wisdom entries. Take for instance this entry. It < 1549842161 603645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `pwste zarutian ) < 1549842171 512064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste wisdom/zarutian < 1549842172 405133 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/wisdom/zarutian < 1549842180 777530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 ? zarutian < 1549842182 270467 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: It has a whole subentry just on Icelandic unnerver. Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own. < 1549842200 203798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also can't remember the proper repository URL command < 1549842207 279836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's `url. < 1549842218 847597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering if there was a `wrl. < 1549842291 700897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl zarutian < 1549842292 386405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, you can type seven characters < 1549842305 59125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... useful. < 1549842316 398756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg bin/hwrl < 1549842319 149423 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549842323 168815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/hwrl < 1549842324 781450 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9814:2016-12-02 mkx bin/hwrl//echo \'come on, you can type seven characters\' < 1549842346 659263 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a horrible, opinionated character < 1549842388 156995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1549842390 14890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also wonders about the difference between `url and `hurl < 1549842397 435428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that. Maybe it was an impostor. < 1549842400 25033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also horrible: there are entirely independent scripts bin/url and bin/hurl, where the only difference is that only the former supports tmp. < 1549842411 229008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hurl < 1549842411 906706 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ else: \ print ("https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/" + \ urllib.quote(f)) < 1549842419 78617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg hurl < 1549842420 600460 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11469:2018-04-08 sled bin/hurl//s,hackego.esolangs.org/fshg,hack.esolangs.org/repo,g;s,/index\\.cgi,, \ 10395:2017-03-11 sled bin/hurl//s,http,https,g \ 10316:2017-02-18 sled bin/hurl//s,codu.org/projects/hackbot,hackego.esolangs.org, \ 9142:2016-10-02 ` cp bin/{,h}url; sed -i \'11s/file/log/\' bin/hurl < 1549842425 961972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cblprits hurl < 1549842426 674876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cblprits: not found < 1549842429 552939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1549842439 972917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/hurl < 1549842441 461548 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzïe oerjän fizzïe oerjän < 1549842451 167785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/url < 1549842452 746059 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzïe fizzïe oerjän fizzïe oerjän fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän nitïa < 1549842462 962801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah, nobody else to blame. < 1549842476 178968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/url < 1549842477 13878 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/url < 1549842502 73737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I even fixed the paths in both url and hurl 10 months ago. < 1549842511 295072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So these aren't totally separate, they're almost identical. < 1549842550 350323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can argue that because of the "h" in "hurl", it should only work for repository contents, while "url" is okay to support tmp as well. < 1549842570 68146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, these aren't independent. < 1549842574 989212 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is for the history of a file. < 1549842583 873415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh. < 1549842598 906902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx hwrl//hurl "wisdom/$1" < 1549842600 477746 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwrl < 1549842606 545671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes sense. < 1549842608 838937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl zarutian < 1549842609 686101 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, you can type seven characters < 1549842624 19071 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` mv hwrl bin < 1549842625 672590 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549842629 331121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl zarutian < 1549842630 119735 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/zarutian < 1549842639 789385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/wrl//url "wisdom/$1" < 1549842641 365247 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wrl < 1549842646 52712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wrl zarutian < 1549842646 793546 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/wisdom/zarutian < 1549842647 424945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess hurl can't support tmp. Oh well. < 1549842663 936954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it makes sense, I just didn't realize what it was for. < 1549842688 168872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I was puzzled by the 'h' as well. So I learned something... useless. Yay. < 1549842743 259968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you didn't know what hurl was, why were you hwrling? < 1549842759 283667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I looked at /bin in the repo browser < 1549842775 456533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1549842781 367672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin < 1549842782 219952 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin < 1549842800 511451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is bin so full of nonsense? < 1549842816 971173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the people. That is, us. :P < 1549842823 297179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/shachaf1sum < 1549842823 912664 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ sha1sum "$@" | tr a-z n-za-m < 1549842830 916674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg shachaf1sum < 1549842832 460131 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2666:2013-04-14 printf \'#!/bin/bash\\nsha1sum "$@" | tr a-z n-za-m\' > bin/shachaf1sum && chmod +x bin/shachaf1sum < 1549842860 199567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: SMILING CAT FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES < 1549842873 260002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/ < 1549842874 908825 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1549842878 891316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: binaries of the people, by the people, for the people. < 1549842880 465082 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549842889 538046 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/ < 1549842890 230187 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Stop taking everything literally! < 1549842899 82706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's still a DNS entry for hackego.esolangs.org < 1549842899 584133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1549842900 7757 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1549842907 278874 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1549842907 322368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was confusing when I tried to hg pull a little while ago. < 1549842914 968806 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549842941 399454 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549842957 14171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess it doesn't look too likely the Cloud at Cost host is coming back... < 1549842960 550992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shaventions < 1549842963 816840 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, {s,p}led/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet. < 1549842973 479482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one ever uses things like before/now/lastfiles < 1549843011 552148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think edit is a fizzievention by now < 1549843028 879883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/No < 1549843029 526129 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1549843045 892881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think that's for ruining an error quote. < 1549843063 231284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg No < 1549843064 779789 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. < 1549843065 493300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something along those lines. < 1549843075 667259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1549843076 727221 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1549843106 49911 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why the BBC < 1549843123 270110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Nitia < 1549843127 285272 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1549843165 434452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/whoops < 1549843166 27269 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "«${NEW}» already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "«${OLD}» -> «${NEW}»" < 1549843174 362997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg whoops < 1549843175 938982 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9714:2016-11-17 whoop ../bin/whoop \ 9713:2016-11-17 ` mv bin/whoop{s,} \ 9710:2016-11-17 ` mv bin/whoops{s,} \ 9709:2016-11-17 whoops \ 9708:2016-11-17 mkx bin/whoops//OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "\xc2\xab${NEW}\xc2\xbb already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "\xc2\xab${OLD}\xc2\xbb -> \xc2\xab${NEW}\xc2\xbb" \ 5338:2015 < 1549843192 666868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, tg < 1549843202 956534 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1549843240 204812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wlcmr int-e < 1549843241 447009 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1549843262 357439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg wlcmr < 1549843263 834381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm < 1549843287 830492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wlcm FireFly < 1549843289 3021 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FrFly: Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: . (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n EFnt r DALnt.) < 1549843297 262328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :apologint-e < 1549843341 257106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up checking whether it's colorful... it wasn't. < 1549843352 735252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd made it. < 1549843363 313114 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember creating that < 1549843386 111567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's only because of the confusing thing in the fshg browser where it shows the last commit message at the top, instead of the message of the last commit that affected the file you clicked on. < 1549843410 890497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, -ir ?! < 1549843421 40040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/wlcmr < 1549843422 476198 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549843434 922189 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it be -ir? < 1549843451 723617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you make a backup rather than just use -i ? < 1549843470 674481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get it. < 1549843473 561179 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r is how GNU sed spells -E < 1549843477 858689 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "use ERE" < 1549843480 695903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: then use -ri < 1549843482 839892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -ir is not sed -i -r hth < 1549843484 967048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/preprocess-mtg # one less now < 1549843486 505683 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/preprocess-mtg' < 1549843486 587418 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1549843501 520444 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosp < 1549843510 722161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -ir' < 1549843511 559252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/7z bin/7za # I added these, but they never worked < 1549843517 793220 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm < 1549843518 646338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/7z' \ removed 'bin/7za' < 1549843530 519217 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well I didn't even remember creating that to begin with < 1549843539 471299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: nowadays you'd just use sled hth < 1549843552 968076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549843570 810716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's a plausible mistake. It took me a moment to realize why the file was there at all :) < 1549843576 431905 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1549843674 632231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created bin/8-ball but then other people modified it in ways I don't approve with, and I would have used the original but now I can't trust it < 1549843699 694789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently created wrlist, just in case the "we are robots" webcomic resurrects < 1549843712 682442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the rest, what I can do is use them so there aren't so many unused ones < 1549843727 47788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the lists that are for events that haven't happened of course, I won't use them < 1549843730 423073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? keenlist < 1549843731 706186 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast < 1549843745 543145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{desc}\0{file_adds}\n" bin/* | perl -ne '/^<[^>]*jonas.*\0(.+)/ and print "$1\n";' | sport < 1549843749 782092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this a list < 1549843766 420475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because if it happens, I'd like to notice, so it pings me < 1549843769 432876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:bin/bobadventureslist \ bin/starwars \ bin/scheme \ bin/calesyta2016list \ bin/welkom \ bin/velkomin \ bin/velkommen \ bin/välkommen \ bin/hello \ bin/random-card \ bin/card-by-name \ bin/recipe \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/keenlist wisdom/keenlist \ bin/ioccclist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/revert \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/aglist \ bin/listlist \ bin/wrlist \ bin/dateu \ bin/sqli \ bin/datei \ bin/culprits-c \ bin/Welcome \ bin/velcome \ bin/cto < 1549843771 204199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as with olist < 1549843771 797958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1549843772 580001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:f \ bin/ftoc \ bin/toroman \ bin/fromroman \ bin/8-ball \ bin/8ball < 1549843773 859887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/keenlist < 1549843774 483485 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ b_jonas < 1549843778 799178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`starwars 10 < 1549843779 527295 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supreme Leader Snoke \ R2-D2 \ Moff Jerjerrod \ Galen Erso \ Qui-Gon Jinn \ Padmé Amidala \ Cassian Andor \ Ric Olié \ Doctor Cornelius Evazan \ C-3PO < 1549843781 710897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're the only one on the list. < 1549843791 192728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so far yes, but anyone can echo >> it < 1549843803 35416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't just add other people < 1549843818 419879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you create a list, do you add anyone but yourself? < 1549843845 346310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the starwars should perhaps be updated to add characters from Solo < 1549843867 855767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are those already in there? < 1549843903 363789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but the main way people learn about lists is from seeing them being listed. < 1549843918 397811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1549843925 796099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scheme < 1549843926 599338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plots That Span Centuries < 1549843928 474918 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calesyta2016list never happened < 1549843929 155663 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calesyta2016list never happened: b_jonas < 1549843934 279867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1549843967 546036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastwisdoms < 1549843969 66003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/2019-02-08/ macron // flabberghast // chicken // /2019-02-07/ ladder // quantum leap // /2019-02-04/ password // /2019-02-02/ asap // tio // /2019-01-30/ prefixes // /2019-01-29/ shannon // /2019-01-26/ fnord // /2019-01-01/ this ftp site // /2018-12-29/ standard // /2018-12-22/ ground water // /2018-12-11/ italian // grace period // tanebvention // /2018-12-09/ oren // /2018-12-07/ mꙮnqy // /2018-12-06/ oerjan // /2018-12-01/ `hello // tense formati < 1549843991 882076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits-c wisdom/password < 1549843993 600381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 29 oerjän 14 int-̈e 5 shachäf 1 mroman̈_ 1 mromän 1 gameman̈j 1 boil̈y 1 b_jonäs < 1549844015 953091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... what's bin/revert ? < 1549844036 640608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sqli SELECT 2+4 < 1549844037 361320 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1549844038 559260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sqli SELECT 2/0 < 1549844039 165149 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549844060 534576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` git log < 1549844061 353316 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: Not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point /hackenv) \ Stopping at filesystem boundary (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set). < 1549844105 455752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you made it though < 1549844114 755894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that's the problem < 1549844123 546197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I listed the entries in bin that I made and that still exist < 1549844126 133597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :above < 1549844145 810435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego wasn't using git either, right? < 1549844184 724556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : let's create a fake bin/revert ! < 1549844195 364655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1549844197 206773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego was using hg and now hackeso is using hs < 1549844203 199240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm bin/revert < 1549844204 854577 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549844207 326829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was discussion about how `revert is a builtin and not a real command. < 1549844213 838753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549844220 334970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could have created a real one < 1549844223 644641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/run < 1549844224 463742 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo run run run < 1549844224 997869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1549844227 366354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1549844253 426550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not an entirely real one < 1549844255 263822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whether it would be possible to make an actual non-builtin version of `revert, which sounds like it should be more or less possible. < 1549844277 110242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/undo < 1549844277 928674 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R < 1549844281 179037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: why are you using git commands, HackEgo is mercury / oerjan: it's a fake command, so it doesn't matter, right? / OKAY < 1549844288 487157 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I don't know mercurial < 1549844297 160219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549844297 458661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`before < 1549844299 595262 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/revert//#!/bin/sh \ exec git checkout HEAD^ . < 1549844300 440922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might have been me < 1549844311 988567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? `before is useful! < 1549844535 370343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`after < 1549844535 935284 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: after: not found < 1549844539 165706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`now < 1549844540 134506 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/revert//cat: bin/revert: No such file or directory < 1549844549 637769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1549844551 265269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't do much for deletions. < 1549844576 281954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1549844577 66149 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approach of the Second Sun \ 6W \ Sorcery \ If Approach of the Second Sun was cast from your hand and you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game, you win the game. Otherwise, put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life. \ AKH-R < 1549844577 805734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card flying < 1549844578 619771 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivory Gargoyle \ 4W \ Creature -- Gargoyle \ 2/2 \ Flying \ When Ivory Gargoyle dies, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step and you skip your next draw step. \ {4}{W}: Exile Ivory Gargoyle. \ AI-R, ME2-R < 1549844587 29060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card eldrazi < 1549844587 779901 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emrakul, the Promised End \ 13 \ Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi \ 13/13 \ This spell costs {1} less to cast for each card type among cards in your graveyard. \ When you cast this spell, you gain control of target opponent during that player's next turn. After that turn, that player takes an extra turn. \ Flying, trample, protection from instants \ EMN-M < 1549844605 586576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pft. no annihilator? < 1549844621 377035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card joker < 1549844622 105987 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No card found. < 1549844628 638525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card spade < 1549844629 387008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No card found. < 1549844631 964061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card annihilator < 1549844633 47753 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hand of Emrakul \ 9 \ Creature -- Eldrazi \ 7/7 \ You may sacrifice four Eldrazi Spawn rather than pay this spell's mana cost. \ Annihilator 1 (Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices a permanent.) \ ROE-C < 1549844636 630076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card club < 1549844637 400733 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prakhata Club Security \ 3B \ Creature -- Aetherborn Warrior \ 3/4 \ KLD-C < 1549844646 999080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`owrjan < 1549844648 140062 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1549844670 829928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/evil/eldrazi/ < 1549844670 984125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`stat bin/slwrjan < 1549844672 795932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stat: cannot stat 'bin/slwrjan': No such file or directory < 1549844673 335473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? that's a command? < 1549844673 738103 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1549844685 279137 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549844707 494890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culrpits-c wisdom/oerjan < 1549844708 166580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culrpits-c: not found < 1549844714 794687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits-c wisdom/oerjan < 1549844716 376454 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 122 shachäf 53 oerjän 11 boil̈y 5 noloveinwaikik̈i 2 Jafët 2 int-̈e 1 nitïa 1 hppavilion[1̈] < 1549844720 886961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1549844722 633554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1549844737 994030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia! < 1549844740 213949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1549844741 295765 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1549844752 441001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1549844753 515200 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1549844757 647215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1549844758 766387 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. < 1549844772 252285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all true < 1549844784 493147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get the bell peppers thing. < 1549844796 969228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like bell peppers. < 1549844799 881693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's not to get? < 1549844808 769735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the other bits are much harder to get, really. < 1549844822 374844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: noloveinwaikiki was one of hagb4rd's nicks, as i recall < 1549844846 499104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I still don't get some of the wisdom entry about me < 1549844854 528134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? b_jonas < 1549844855 423447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've never tried to decipher the first sentence, and I know all about the last one ;-) < 1549844855 582159 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. < 1549844896 759175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's going on with the last one? < 1549844964 546509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I added that after being subjected to the shachafian inquisition one day. I have to admit that I did forget the topic of that discussion. < 1549844974 15998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 's okay i only get the first three words and the second last. < 1549844987 380859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1549844994 46437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought oerjan added that, though. < 1549844995 306277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i thought i added it... < 1549844997 96997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg shachaf < 1549844998 736974 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9872:2016-12-05 slwd shachaf//s/^/Queen / \ 9869:2016-12-05 learn_append shachaf He doesn\'t know when to stop asking questions. \ 9116:2016-09-29 slwd shachaf//s# T.*## \ 8814:2016-07-14 slwd shachaf//s#^shachaf#Shachaf of the Dawn# \ 8553:2016-06-21 ` hg cat -r 8343 wisdom/shachaf > wisdom/shachaf \ 8345:2016-06-05 learn shachaf is a wise little gentleman. \ 8344:2016-06-05 le < 1549845005 757177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549845011 633342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I at least suggest it? > 1549845020 661364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59799&oldid=59780 5* 03Cortex 5* (+142) 10 < 1549845025 61703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I asked oerjan too many questions. < 1549845047 418275 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I just quote it on one occasion. < 1549845064 757846 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory is what it used to be. All unreliable and forgetful :) > 1549845067 844001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59800&oldid=59799 5* 03Cortex 5* (-27) 10 < 1549845086 552656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory is like a functor. < 1549845090 747640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1549845092 616721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMI < 1549845126 178297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe it's one of those berenstoin things < 1549845176 684866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :faithful, forgetful, adjoint... < 1549845231 974606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks hackeso < 1549845232 693235 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, hackeso. Thackeso. < 1549845233 579385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory can be especially forgetful after adjoint < 1549845246 802249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----### < 1549845292 569414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google berenstoin < 1549845293 903626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://me.me/i/no-normies-allowed-stan-jan-berenstoin-%3Cp%3Ememe-insiders-make-stance-22266978 < 1549845334 351667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I have regrets. < 1549845484 969910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf even is that. < 1549845528 288695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not clicking that link. < 1549845540 414122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many people incorrectly remember the name of the series as the "Berenstein Bears". This confusion has generated multiple theories to explain the memories, including an unannounced name change, time travel, or parallel universes and has been described as an instance of the Mandela effect." < 1549845559 913527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that what you're alluding to? < 1549845653 854666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to do static linking on Linux and also use OpenGL? < 1549845715 787081 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1549845737 585628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? this < 1549845738 691008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. < 1549845805 362490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e may or may not be fan < 1549845843 398982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote indifference < 1549845844 718558 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1320) int-e does not like this [...] shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P Higher than your usual? who cares? < 1549845853 52023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can statically link to whatever libraries you want but I don't think you can statically link to a single OpenGL library.. < 1549845916 299205 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably not a reasonable way, because part of the graphics driver is a shared library < 1549845941 674181 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might be able to statically link the software only Mesa renderer < 1549845981 270726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shared library that links against libc which means I have to use libc and everything too, presumably. < 1549846062 478308 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549846176 187058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat -r 8821 wisdom/tg < 1549846176 962268 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: invalid option -- 'r' \ Try 'cat --help' for more information. < 1549846180 67227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg cat -r 8821 wisdom/tg < 1549846181 143023 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp. < 1549846294 780923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @ < 1549846295 849191 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. < 1549846357 387423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549846374 643750 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a blast from the past. < 1549846563 172379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i oblast from the past < 1549846744 841623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1549847078 708200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-69.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549847162 787819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( And your final question for the $1,000,000 prize is: What's the Russian word for "province"? Oh, blast! ) < 1549847552 501257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it confusing if I use the number of bytes instead of the number of bits for my numeric types? < 1549847564 262545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So U1/U2/U4/U8 instead of U8/U16/U32/U64 < 1549847611 982431 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because how many bits to a byte? < 1549847635 487536 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is conventional, but there are other byte sizes. < 1549847651 539286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do I care about architectures where bytes aren't octets? < 1549847747 882046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-legmbsazkncousky QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549848053 78490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's your call. < 1549848066 161663 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have no way to specify a 4-bit type or a 2-bit type. < 1549848072 489447 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a 7-bit type or something. < 1549848120 206917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But on the other hand "8" is the same length as "1". < 1549848141 445924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Maybe I should stick to bits because everyone else does. < 1549848154 216081 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1549848184 965382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I tried writing code with this style and I kept getting confused and using U8 instead of U1. < 1549848340 306025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi j4cbo < 1549848340 994015 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi j4cbo. Ho. < 1549848352 473782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think maybe that should be adjusted. < 1549848395 320206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use 8/16/32/64, you can use 1 for a boolean type. That's what LLVM does. < 1549848416 613024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also true. < 1549848519 778553 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know of any non-8-bit-byte architectures that are relevant these days, but bits still seem more fundamental < 1549848537 452030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also true. < 1549848564 418966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is there any meaning to fractional qubits twh < 1549848627 650737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hi < 1549848628 237171 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Hi $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/H/; } else { s/^./H/; } print "$_."; < 1549848651 586210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI's still making TMS320C55x chips for low-power applications, and their C compiler for those has a CHAR_BIT == 16 setup. < 1549848668 685875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/hi//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848670 298710 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/hi//#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Hi $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/H/; } else { s/^./H/; } print "$_."; < 1549848671 960894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi j4cbo < 1549848672 578361 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi j4cbo. H4cbo. < 1549848675 940077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1549848716 424594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAVERN uses 16-bit memory cells (although if TAVERN32 or TAVERN64 is made, it might use 8-bit cells instead). < 1549848735 669127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of memory cell does TAVERN8 use < 1549848736 858484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sled bin/thanks//s/OUY/OUY0134/g # for consistency < 1549848738 663989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/thanks//#!/usr/bin/perl -CSDA \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; < 1549848746 821851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks j4cbo < 1549848747 462146 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, j4cbo. Th4cbo. < 1549848748 440976 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There is no TAVERN8 < 1549848759 864073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should bug someone else. < 1549848782 12829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks f1zz13 < 1549848782 412137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no one else uses digits that way. < 1549848782 700636 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, f1zz13. Th1zz13. < 1549848797 724275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you can run this on a name that isn't a nick present in the channel. I forgot. < 1549848856 448319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rgrep -l aeiou bin < 1549848857 263090 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/h! \ bin/?h \ bin/thanks \ bin/hyphenate.fi \ bin/hi \ bin/blessyou \ bin/unh \ bin/?hh \ bin/shmify \ bin/h < 1549848858 814044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I was thinking of exporting $NICK in the HackEso environment as the person who requested the thing to be done. < 1549848863 606524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/blessyou < 1549848864 207123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Bless you, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Bl/; } else { s/^./B/; } print "$_."; < 1549848876 237924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sled bin/blessyou//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848879 694329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/blessyou//s/OUY/OUY0134/g < 1549848881 323557 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/blessyou//#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Bless you, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY0134]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY0134]*/Bl/; } else { s/^./B/; } print "$_."; < 1549848886 163846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`blessyou f1zz13 < 1549848886 820841 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bless you, f1zz13. Bl1zz13. < 1549848903 740031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`h f1zz13 < 1549848904 541939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f1zz13 < 1549848911 866491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. That might be going too far. < 1549848942 854940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wehlcohme fizzie < 1549848944 143331 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fihzzie: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: . (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.) < 1549849266 686807 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there probably is in quantum information theory, which I know nothing about < 1549849310 196877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849313 124932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))).encode(locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))/\' bin/loudly \ 5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr -d ae < 1549849315 549493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`blessyou keegan < 1549849316 174483 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bless you, keegan. Bleegan. < 1549849342 539772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/dog < 1549849343 158675 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/dog: No such file or directory < 1549849349 580809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised `dog doesn't exist. < 1549849358 498709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i unless cat is lying to us < 1549849412 988668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/lowercase2e < 1549849413 717371 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/lowercase2e < 1549849418 285946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1549849431 907297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/lowercase2e < 1549849433 528228 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 < 1549849440 968946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/lowercase2e < 1549849444 822405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549849468 766582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/loudlye < 1549849470 289570 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10294:2017-02-16 rm bin/loudlye \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6491:2016-01-03 revert 6483 \ 6489:2016-01-03 revert 6486 \ 6488:2016-01-03 revert 6483 \ 6486:2016-01-03 revert \ 6485:2016-01-03 revert \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/ < 1549849483 820727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 doag | grep 'sed -i [^ ]' < 1549849487 6882 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/169:e\'s font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font|" wisdom/font \ 11200:2017-09-26 ` sed -i \'$s=sha[c]haf=shach\x0faf=\' quotes > /dev/null \ 11198:2017-09-26 ` sed -i \'$s=shachaf=sha\x0fchaf=\' quotes \ 11150:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e "s/head.*/grep \'^U+\'/" bin/singlecode \ 11149:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e \'1i\\#!/bin/bash\' bin/singlecode \ 11148:2017-08-08 ` sed -i -e \'s/multicode/singl < 1549849494 192491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1549849496 800780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849500 315661 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/6:d aeoiu/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 5183:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/.$/g&/\' bin/wlcm; cat bin/wlcm \ 2257:2013-02-26 sed -i... -e \'s/grep/timeout 25 grep/\' bin/pastelog \ 2196:2013-02-21 sed -ie "s/ shachaf//" bin/list \ 2157:2013-02-17 sed -ie "s/ shachaf//" bin/list \ 1891:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-32,UTF-16LE,\' bin/\\? \ 1890:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-16,UTF-32,\' bin/\\? \ 18 < 1549849560 747700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find any others with for f in bin/*e; do if [ -e "${f%e}" ]; then echo $f; fi; done if that was even right. < 1549849640 796167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it should've been.) < 1549849692 209668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/pasteloge < 1549849693 741851 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549849699 96928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of sed -ie in the lgs, I wonder why none of those files were created. < 1549849702 491169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1549849706 806433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/pastelog... < 1549849708 434360 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2260:2013-02-26 rm bin/pastelog... \ 2257:2013-02-26 sed -i... -e \'s/grep/timeout 25 grep/\' bin/pastelog < 1549849767 349525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/?e < 1549849769 108590 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1890:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,UTF-16,UTF-32,\' bin/\\? \ 1889:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | cat$,;,\' bin/\\? \ 1888:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,urandom,urandom | cat,\' bin/\\? \ 1887:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'2 s,$, | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//"),\' bin/\\? \ 1886:2013-01-27 revert \ 1885:2013-01-27 revert \ 1884:2013-01-27 revert \ 1883:2013 < 1549849789 7744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/?e < 1549849789 749165 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: 'bin/?e': No such file or directory < 1549849862 874891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`3 doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' < 1549849870 922211 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/18:10398:2017-03-11 ` sed -ie "s,\\\\n,\\n," bin/lowercase2 \ 6500:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6484:2016-01-03 ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))).encode(locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET))/\' bin/loudly \ 5184:2014-12-09 ` sed -ir \'s/sed.*/tr < 1549849872 765613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/3 < 1549849873 422224 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval "$(shuf -n 1 <<'END' \ \` "$@" |& sport 3 \ cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 3 "$cmd" \ END \ )" < 1549849881 228584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan got lucky today < 1549849906 633056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1549849924 790415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits ../bin/3 < 1549849926 602003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1549849935 75069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/n < 1549849935 667563 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line /hackenv/tmp/spline < 1549850017 874183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2 < 1549850018 664093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\` "$@" |& sport 2 < 1549850055 734792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/^ < 1549850056 343531 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: 'bin/^': No such file or directory < 1549850067 274899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh i thought that existed < 1549850078 539779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/`^ < 1549850079 243628 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport < 1549850191 526435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 3 < 1549850194 649780 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/6:89:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | cat$,;,\' bin/\\? \ 1888:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,urandom,urandom | cat,\' bin/\\? \ 1887:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'2 s,$, | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//"),\' bin/\\? \ 1882:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s, | tr.*,,\' bin/\\? \ 1881:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,tr -d .*,iconv -f UTF-16 -t UTF-8 -c /dev/urandom | tr -d "\\\\r",\' bin/\\? \ 1878:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,-c;,-c | head -c 1000;, < 1549850284 648158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 4 < 1549850288 327490 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/6:\' bin/\\? \ 1877:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,-f UTF-8,-f UTF-16,\' bin/\\? \ 1876:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,/dev/urandom,/dev/urandom | iconv -f UTF-8 -t UTF-8 -c,\' bin/\\? \ 1875:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,\\[:print:\\],[:print:]\\\\r,\' bin/\\? \ 1874:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s,cat /dev/urandom,tr -d "[:print:]" sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc < 1549850312 477677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 5 < 1549850315 836076 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5/6:-l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l sed -ie \'s/ monqy//\' bin/list \ 1865:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'s/$/ monqy/\' bin/list \ 1850:2013-01-26 sed -ie \'s/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./\' wisdom/narutoverse \ 1592:2013-01-22 sed -is \'s/grep/grep -P -i/\' bin/seen \ 1250:2013-01-04 sed -ie \'s#-ne .print uc($_).#-pe \'\\\'\'$_ = uc\'\\\'\'#\' b < 1549850342 446584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg delquote < 1549850343 999511 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1873:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof*%s" "/' bin/delquote \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. < 1549850378 603260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg narutoversee < 1549850380 190973 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4210:2013-12-19 rm wisdom/narutoversee \ 1850:2013-01-26 sed -ie \'s/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./\' wisdom/narutoverse < 1549850401 258292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg seens < 1549850406 227984 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1549850406 951040 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1592:2013-01-22 sed -is \'s/grep/grep -P -i/\' bin/seen < 1549850431 430951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep ' rm.*e$' < 1549850434 447698 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11728:2019-02-11 rm bin/lowercase2e \ 10360:2017-03-07 rm lele lele \ 10295:2017-02-16 rm bin/disce \ 10294:2017-02-16 rm bin/loudlye \ 9083:2016-09-26 rm candide \ 8625:2016-06-27 rm quine \ 8540:2016-06-20 rm bin/e \ 8019:2016-05-11 rm wisdom/raspberrie \ 6001:2015-09-16 rm wisdom/toe \ 5813:2015-07-09 rm wisdom/he \ 5753:2015-06-25 rm < 1549850447 429493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/seens < 1549850449 56405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549850504 420791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 6 < 1549850507 690046 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6/6:in/WELCOME \ 1212:2012-12-28 sed -ie \'889 s/hard drive/hard drive /\' quotes \ 783:2012-10-06 run sed -ie 's/echo/echo -e/' bin/runc \ 752:2012-10-04 run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof*%s" "/' bin/delquote \ 744:2012-10-04 run cp bin/addquote bin/addquote_; sed -ie 's/echo/printf "%d) %s"/;s/") / "/' bin/addquote; cat bin/addquote < 1549850535 213237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg WELCOMEe < 1549850536 660365 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1282:2013-01-07 rm bin/WELCOMEe \ 1250:2013-01-04 sed -ie \'s#-ne .print uc($_).#-pe \'\\\'\'$_ = uc\'\\\'\'#\' bin/WELCOME < 1549850557 229498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that quite a lot. < 1549850598 645642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately we invented sled < 1549850608 706511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately sled still doesn't have a preview option. :-( ) < 1549850661 189684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dobg runce; dobg delquotee; dobg addquotee < 1549850664 543962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2111:2013-02-13 rm bin/runce \ 783:2012-10-06 run sed -ie 's/echo/echo -e/' bin/runc \ 1906:2013-01-30 hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 \ 1873:2013-01-27 sed -ie \'3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\\&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l rm bin/delquotee \ 752:2012-10-04 run sed -ie 's/echo "\*poof\*/printf "*poof < 1549850713 811845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg addquotee < 1549850715 339497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :993:2012-12-09 rm bin/addquotee \ 744:2012-10-04 run cp bin/addquote bin/addquote_; sed -ie 's/echo/printf "%d) %s"/;s/") / "/' bin/addquote; cat bin/addquote < 1549850737 58539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep 'sed -i[^ ]' |& sport 7 < 1549850740 378455 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7/6: < 1549850743 854055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549850772 401983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess we got most of the *e ones before < 1549852525 393515 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549852767 280776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549852851 832385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549853613 249680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any operetta house near Mornington Crescent? In the XYZABCDE.ZZT game there is, but I don't know if actually there is or if only it is the computer game. < 1549855809 382626 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549856058 394600 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549857600 743538 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1549857649 736665 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549857688 379950 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1549859031 962715 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549859294 943431 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549860400 73436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea of Magic: the Gathering is an effect that will double all counters on all objects and players (once). < 1549860639 545925 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any interesting esolang applications of M:tG? I mean, I know it's TC < 1549860644 513629 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what else can be said / done with it < 1549860742 259632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be interested in an esolang suitable for describing cards in a MtG-style game < 1549860759 291735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not obvious at all how to do it well, since the game can be self-modifying in all sorts of subtle ways < 1549860769 435837 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Pokémon card game TC? < 1549860799 330123 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, it is much simpler, but i haven't played these things in almost 20 years < 1549860808 143764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( how did I get so fucking old? ) < 1549861297 797448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I wanted such thing too. I did have some ideas about it though < 1549861326 807816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if Pokemon card is TC, but, probably there is not enough memory; it has limited memory while Magic: the Gathering has unlimited memory. < 1549861496 264189 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of unbounded counters? < 1549861534 269554 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an automaton with 1 unbounded counter (and appropriate operations) is TC, right? because you can Gödel-encode a whole tape < 1549861550 586896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need two counters, I think. < 1549861556 117819 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549861557 682721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it depends on your operations. < 1549861572 355915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's incremenet/decrement/etc. you need a scratch counter. < 1549861577 36944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with two counters you can do basically the two-stack-machine thing < 1549861581 994173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549861634 788726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can encode a stack with two counters, and four counters with two counters < 1549861644 626253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_machine#Two-counter_machines_are_Turing_equivalent_(with_a_caveat) < 1549861773 236387 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549862282 382574 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549862527 279716 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549863921 202372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549864888 856752 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549866303 164538 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you need to add to the mcculloch and pitts model of neurons to make it turing complete? an infinite supply of neurons? < 1549867046 247887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is mcculloch and pitts model, therefore I don't know < 1549868741 249696 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549869003 258823 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549869417 662473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of making the program for cards of Magic: the Gathering using either Lisp-based or RDF-based; an example in the RDF-based format (I mentioned before) is [:counter [:target :spell]] for "counter target spell". < 1549869676 404247 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure about some other kind of effects, but one possibility might be [:edit [:target [:or :spell, :permanent]]; :match [:choice :color]; :replace [:choice :color]] or something like that, for Sleight of Mind < 1549872083 829143 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549872368 671297 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549873293 831278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549874151 858359 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549874213 271060 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549874238 393891 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549874343 786675 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549874378 415067 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549876999 102211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549877029 701873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: number of bytes instead of the number of bits for numeric types => I don't know, but I did that once in the names of library types in a small C++ library I wrote < 1549877174 834498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think either the number of bytes or the number of bits is better than some kind of word sequence like "char, short, long, uh... long long?" or "byte, short, int, long" or "byte, word, doubleword, quadword" or "byte, halfword, word, doubleword". even "byte, wyde, tetra, octa" gets stuck once you want to name larger sizes. < 1549877227 396597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x86 architecture has instructions with "quadruple quadword" in their name < 1549877230 412226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets ugly < 1549877378 869009 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549877393 411591 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because the letters can collide: "S" in the mnemonic is used for "signed", "single", "scalar" and "string" < 1549877426 138540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D" is always "double", but it can be the "double" of a doubleword (4 bytes), a double quadword (16 bytes), or a double-precision float (8 bytes) < 1549877460 630361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it up to octuple quadword with AVX-512? < 1549877493 335217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Intel convention of calling 16 bit values "words" is very annoying. < 1549877598 936317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but they gave up trying to give new names, and the only way such large data are manipulated is when you move a whole register worth of data, so the MOVDQA instruction can move not only 16 byte XMM registers, but also full 32 byte or 64 byte registers < 1549877605 455640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DQ stands for double quadword < 1549877634 337752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the instruction name in the manual is "Move aligned packed integer values", which doesn't even mention "double quadwords" anymore < 1549877639 425728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they realized it's getting ridiculous < 1549877782 189963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that, plus there's an unaligned version MOVDQUA and the strange SSE4_1 legacy instruction MOVNTDQA, and those can move 32 and 64 byte too now and in the future respectively < 1549878037 749914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the MOVNTDQ instruction too < 1549878092 262331 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moven't < 1549878208 309405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd be interested in an esolang suitable for describing cards in a MtG-style game" => zzo38 wants a non-eso lang for that, since using it to model M:tG would be a useful thing and thus make the language non-eso < 1549878250 636722 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549878266 214525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for doubling counters, you know there's a card in Ravnica Allg that doubles counters on one object, right? < 1549878323 216187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://scryfall.com/card/rna/123/biogenic-upgrade < 1549878340 521665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really useful for programming though < 1549878723 313792 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549879054 928782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190210.html < 1549879055 860093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190210.html: b_jonas < 1549879077 679489 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is is possible to have a sequence of consecutive semiprimes of arbitrary length < 1549879095 231974 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the sequence 21=3*7, 22=2*11 is a sequence of consecutive semiprimes of length 2) < 1549879166 738989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no < 1549879189 228016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you can't have one longer than 5 < 1549879272 246066 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: can you explain why not? < 1549879310 519886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: try to figure it out yourself first < 1549879320 603797 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1549879372 194947 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have it < 1549879402 166420 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way a multiple of 6 can be semiprime is if it's 6 < 1549879409 908830 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a multiple of 6 every six numbers < 1549879563 756026 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the longest you can do is of length 3, because that argument works for 4 as well < 1549879582 445452 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I found one of length 3, 33=3*11, 34=2*17, 35=5*7 < 1549880389 954744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you can say something stronger than that < 1549880397 467988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which multiples of 4 are semiprimes? < 1549880407 939979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you already said that < 1549880420 615501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't read all the way down < 1549880549 294425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-196.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549883338 940049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549885587 395925 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549886112 154876 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so fascinated by the fact that we know there are infinitely many prime paires with a distance of k, but we don't know k yet < 1549886120 669308 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot grasp how to prove that < 1549886153 436305 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549886158 841499 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: honestly a lot of what we know about prime distribution just seems magic to me < 1549886176 619136 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read "Introduction to the theory of numbers" in a little more depth < 1549886186 871331 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, that too < 1549886196 259389 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549887147 937612 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549887171 690529 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the question about Mornington Crescent, see under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Opera_houses_in_the_United_Kingdom and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Opera_houses_in_England . < 1549887426 613312 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or do a category-intersection to find all opera houses in London with https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=en&project=wikipedia&depth=6&categories=Opera%20houses%20in%20England%0D%0ATheatres%20in%20London&ns%5B0%5D=1&ns%5B14%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=en&active_tab=&doit= < 1549887484 446388 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll probably need to check the location, whether it still exists, and whether it counts as an operetta house < 1549887535 745414 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893114 8655 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549893585 713917 :monkeystance!~monkeysta@27-32-150-35.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893656 854650 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549893730 357390 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :self < 1549893736 960043 :self!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1549893795 155426 :monkeystance!~monkeysta@27-32-150-35.tpgi.com.au PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1549895729 281722 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549899348 254886 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpxnchbuggmgwmuq JOIN :#esoteric < 1549899899 149706 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1155 < 1549899899 942041 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1155: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1549900793 534240 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1549902702 742066 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549904298 831831 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549905119 224059 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1549906044 583596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59801&oldid=59718 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1084) 10 < 1549906111 768998 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1549906129 448681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59802&oldid=59801 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+42) 10/* Hello World Program */ < 1549906603 62901 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: :q < 1549906932 210376 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1549907480 756531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59803&oldid=59802 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-42) 10/* Hello World Program */ > 1549907834 801855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59804&oldid=59803 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+555) 10/* Implementations */ < 1549908246 848090 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1549908526 376947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ElemScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59805&oldid=59804 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+26) 10 < 1549911384 904032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549912868 727205 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549913105 239415 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549914331 835536 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpxnchbuggmgwmuq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549914587 277928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Well, anyways the operetta house in XYZABCDE.ZZT game is just called "Operetta House of ZZT", so it isn't an actual operetta house anyways. < 1549914825 725354 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cetctcgelvhbwdpe JOIN :#esoteric < 1549915150 79646 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fastest possible invertible float -> string function < 1549915195 269519 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "string" is a asciz char array) < 1549915247 539874 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably something that offers some kind of lookup table. < 1549915271 362507 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe equivalent to "fastest function from an array of bytes that may be zero to a larger array of bytes that are NOT zero" < 1549915328 497043 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically an escaping question < 1549915334 744812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If zeros are rare, escaping them (and the escape character) isn't half bad, though variable-length. < 1549915390 442688 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't care how slow reading this back is, just how fast I can dump this to stdout < 1549915439 811500 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing is avoiding zero, so that I can use zero to separate things < 1549915477 318950 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or escaping zero I guess < 1549915511 92954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, find the least common byte, make it an escape character < 1549915512 115112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you don't need to have a zero in the escape sequence of zero. < 1549915569 7424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we do some nice prefix coding instead of zero termination? < 1549915581 112379 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: prefix like what < 1549915589 142780 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh including the length? < 1549915597 204729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... length byte. data. or type tag. data. < 1549915602 547544 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :riight htat makes more sense < 1549915623 27036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed from the question the context didn't allow for that. < 1549915656 106827 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well I assumed it was probably slower to dump the length for some reason < 1549915660 892921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yes, but then orin wrote about dumping to stdout and not caring how long it takes to decode... which suggests a larger degree of freedom < 1549915705 715012 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a debug output where it will be mixed with other output < 1549915774 695628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think adding the length should not take long at all < 1549915774 736044 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized it might be faster to do printf("here is the output Oren cares about %d\n",len); then write() ; < 1549915777 68 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for floats < 1549915798 739289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: doubtful, the itoa algorithm will take some time < 1549915810 329367 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however, it may beat write() for the unrelated reason of stdio buffering) < 1549915834 938186 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tag/len/body is the way to go < 1549915843 114374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also nest them to log tree-shaped datastructures < 1549915952 971967 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a library (I'm sure not the first implementation of this idea) where you could do printf-like logging calls, but it would actually just write the arguments in raw form, along with the address of the format string < 1549915978 66072 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... ctully I think it has to be exactly one call to wrtie(), because otherwise ouput from other threads will mix in < 1549916005 559748 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a log viewer which would read the log and the executable used to generate it, and perform the formatting < 1549916015 947472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the assumption that only string literals are used as format strings < 1549916037 522527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm what about ASLR? < 1549916049 615429 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering about that :) < 1549916057 164621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably a solvable problem, but did you deal with it?) < 1549916062 815141 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a long time ago, we were on RHEL 4, I don't think there was any ASLR < 1549916067 62099 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are relatively many zeros in popular floats (like 1.0), so if you did want an escape-based solution, it may be best to pick *two* least common bytes (say a, b), and use the mapping {0 -> a, a -> ba, b -> bb, any other x -> x}. < 1549916085 562254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if all else fails you can start your log file by putting in a copy /proc/self/maps < 1549916086 642449 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I would probably do is just dump the base address of the .data section < 1549916089 794460 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549916114 501350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming Linux, kind of. But other OSs should provide similar facilities.) < 1549916134 856546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern unsigned char data_section[] __attribute__((section(".data"))); < 1549916136 778289 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm does anyone know if write() is atomic < 1549916168 973933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that would create a load time relocation < 1549916187 312331 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could dump &data_section < 1549916191 988359 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I just fkd if I want to output anything into a stdout that is shared with other threads all spewing garbage < 1549916196 668025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think there are automatically generated symbols for section begin/end < 1549916206 878015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I believe cstdio has locking by default < 1549916210 660891 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fwrite() would be atomic < 1549916216 552053 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't recall for sure so look it up < 1549916254 165502 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be implementation defined < 1549916262 158083 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems likely, as the C spec doesn't even have threads (until C11) < 1549916277 395716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On POSIX for write I think that depends on what you're writing to. For example for a pipe "Write requests of {PIPE_BUF} bytes or less shall not be interleaved with data from other processes doing writes on the same pipe". < 1549916286 447889 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX requires stdio to be thread-safe, which is quite unfortunate since it kills performance and since there's no practical way to operate on the same FILE from multiple threads (data will come out hopelessly interleaved; atomicity is only at the character level)." < 1549916291 11058 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549916300 973518 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can also implement your own locking. < 1549916327 97361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or send the messages to a single logger thread somehow < 1549916337 440364 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one way would be datagram sockets) < 1549916408 968543 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I guess I'll just open a new file from MY thread < 1549916423 127396 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 __attribute__((section())) < 1549916426 436766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect fwrite() to be better overall, unless there are many threads; in the latter case I would think of splitting the log files into one per thread. < 1549916463 900088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see https://github.com/mortehu/xflags ? < 1549916465 35253 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a lot of threads writing things, but only one of them writing something I care about < 1549916470 580675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not really sure that her particular section() trick works < 1549916514 256208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for constant strings it should be .rodata I suppose < 1549916521 626824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fancy command line flag library that puts the metadata in a section rather than using a bunch of C++ constructors like gflags. < 1549916621 103352 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O (a library to generate images of flags) < 1549916640 148816 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah yeah < 1549916653 701039 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you'd be boned if you're using -fdata-sections < 1549916655 935607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549916663 662763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long time since i really thought about these things :/ < 1549916667 370563 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw "xflags" and assumed it was like part of X11 < 1549916674 922388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use a linker script to export a start-of-section symbol, and I think something like that might exist by default, but I don't think you can do it with just an extern declaration. < 1549916676 583545 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek xtank and studd < 1549916692 686015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to figure out something to do with her life < 1549916704 190691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I assumed for a long time that pdftk was a gui program using the Tk toolkit < 1549916759 318697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for the purpose at hand, *any* know .rodata symbol should suffice; it doesn't have to be at the start of the section. < 1549916760 627663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, it's not < 1549916776 147346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*known < 1549916821 912985 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: true < 1549916866 118503 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xflags --blazon "Azure, three fleurs-de-lis Or" < 1549916884 690712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1549916886 401769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 112020Z 06007KT 030V100 9999 -SHSN FEW015 SCT030 BKN050 01/M01 Q1024 R08/29//95 NOSIG < 1549917031 563955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ASLR worth the trouble? < 1549917063 35306 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :questions < 1549917092 130311 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense? < 1549917104 603493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it not even that effective < 1549917107 473100 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYYZ < 1549917108 254277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 112000Z 09015KT 15SM SCT024 BKN260 M04/M09 A3033 RMK SC4CI2 SLP281 < 1549917139 154754 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you had to find a needle in a haystack. if the location of the needle was only in a small set of locations, you can find it very easily no matter the haystack you're searching in. < 1549917153 963261 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, if the haystack is small, you can just sift through it in a very small amount of time. < 1549917159 570179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this an analogy to finding an address in an address space? < 1549917162 189501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1549917175 285354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like maybe you can just say "address" and "address space" < 1549917185 718434 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :people seem to do well with physical analogies. < 1549917208 590190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i already know what aslr is < 1549917212 890076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, there are ways around it, but they impose other difficulties on attackers < 1549917217 437863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :american sign language recognition < 1549917223 498171 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul. < 1549917224 468886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :way tougher than speech recognition imo < 1549917229 522311 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a good knowledge of the current landscape on ASLR and ASLR bypass < 1549917243 388814 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, windows ASLR is not as good < 1549917249 104084 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that may have been fixed, but it was true for a long time < 1549917252 485353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your address space is able to be entirely traversed in a very small amount of time, ASLR won't fix it. < 1549917261 239812 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b/c each DLL gets loaded, when possible, at the same address in every process < 1549917263 823100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my limited understanding, with ASLR, you can't do ROP blindly; you need some information leakage to figure out which addresses to jump to first. < 1549917274 886523 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1549917276 874521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or blind guessing < 1549917278 217140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So exploits get quite a bit harder. < 1549917286 366149 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 64 bits gives enough randomization to make blind guessing pretty hard < 1549917299 715927 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, and that's why it's reasonably effective. < 1549917332 663534 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example is if you're in a tool shop, and you wanna build something, but you're blindfolded and don't know where all the tools are, the shop has to be really small for you to do it in a suitable amount of time, or reasonably well-organized. < 1549917343 130834 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on 32 bit x86 you have less than 20 bits of randomness) < 1549917344 456642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like that analogy isn't physical enough < 1549917349 751089 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get physical < 1549917351 829941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe give me something in terms of electrons and photons < 1549917372 599822 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wavefunction of the addresses you want never collapses. < 1549917375 210023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1549917382 597580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :∿ < 1549917393 744889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612887/how-quantum-terrorists-could-bring-down-the-future-internet/ < 1549917402 682873 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :∿~- < 1549917410 146421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :04q08u09a11n12t13u04m 08t09e11r12r13o04r08i09s11t12s < 1549917412 600467 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1549917413 260263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1549917413 405271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This has been bugging me since yesterday.) < 1549917432 958285 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a finite amount of terrorists, or the terrorists are in a finite amount of states? < 1549917435 354581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know you have colors turned off, so I feel obligated to inform you that the above is in rainbow color. < 1549917457 595169 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: much obliged. but please don't do it again. < 1549917462 211854 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do the terrorists have a number of quantized energy levels. < 1549917482 372886 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"terrorizing", "kinda tired", "super tired", "sleeping" < 1549917490 942966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Also that page blocks incognito mode so I'm not going to read it. < 1549917495 662175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can appreciate the title. < 1549917524 555426 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that has been bugging me most is actually that people are considering to build a quantum internet. Or at least applying for and receiving research grants on that topic. < 1549917552 90199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh, but it works without javascript?! < 1549917564 961996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apparently it has JavaScript that detects incognito mode and hides the content. < 1549917569 229390 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :academia can get funding for anything that has buzzwords in it. < 1549917585 970155 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is both a blessing and a curse depending on the intent of people using that funding. < 1549917588 522140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so switch off javascript as well :P < 1549917599 844457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's the poing of incognito mode if you leave javascript enabled?) < 1549917612 748783 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool black borders. < 1549917654 447446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, which browser is this anyway. I have "private browsing". < 1549917669 410004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :google chrome < 1549917673 317464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you could also go to https://arxiv.org/abs/1901.08873 < 1549917700 724848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I didn't, so I don't know how accessible that paper is) < 1549917715 678573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\rainbow{Quantum Terrorism}: Collective Vulnerability of Global Quantum Systems < 1549917717 658607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the point is everything is logged out, random sites can't access your facebook account < 1549917717 816565 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's on arxiv. < 1549917725 479820 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can see non-customized results for things < 1549917734 496485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: my what now? < 1549917742 643483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The major imminent investments in quantum technologies will bring concepts like a \rainbow{global quantum Internet} and \rainbow{quantum Internet-of-Things}, closer to reality. < 1549917756 356124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do these words mean? < 1549917769 257045 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: But I know what you're saying. < 1549917771 430919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum internet of things. jesus christ. < 1549917786 391066 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean. < 1549917792 351546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon your toaster will contain a helium dilution fridge with superconducting chips inside < 1549917797 741874 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can quantumly monitor your toastt < 1549917804 382520 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :function nnfi { nano ` find . -name "$1" ` } < 1549917805 794638 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean at least it doubles as a fridge. < 1549917823 59970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It means that there's smoke from burning VC money. < 1549917827 139111 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw remembering where any of these source files are < 1549917841 214710 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: let's put a billboard on 101 that says "FINALLY, the quantum AI cloud for IoT blockchain" < 1549917842 392658 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagged file system! < 1549917898 568602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "finally tagless filesystem" < 1549917899 676270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1549917902 90681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1549917906 28972 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1549917911 354258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "finally tagless file system" < 1549917912 364585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1549917915 958975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How much do 101 billboards cost? < 1549917941 783653 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1549917952 851918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got bored after about 30 seconds trying to figure that out just now < 1549917967 322795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-billboard-cost-on-101-in-San-Francisco < 1549917970 611617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Creating a Mobile Application where Billboard Customer and Advertisers can work on booking billboard spaces Will be Approx 12000 - 15,000 USD." < 1549917976 595490 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Client Quit < 1549917986 308019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can this person pay me Approx 12000 - 15,000 USD for wasting my time so hard with that answer < 1549918029 534262 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a shitty answer to the wrong question < 1549918064 907731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demand for a billboard along Highway 101 between San Francisco and San Jose, which billboard sellers refer to as the “gold coast,” is so high that some companies are on a six-month waiting list." < 1549918066 96534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top answer there says you can get something for $500 < 1549918074 905086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems low < 1549918084 516147 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just one of many reasons why 280 is better than 101 < 1549918089 79184 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no startup billboards < 1549918096 588926 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe it was stuck behind the pillar of a bridge :P < 1549918110 898169 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :are turing machines mealy machines? I think turing machines are mealy machines. < 1549918111 449335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't get why there's a waiting list instead of an auction. < 1549918148 255806 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Billboard-ads-booming-in-Silicon-Valley-5921690.php is what I'm looking at and it quotes a range of $14,000 to $40,000 a month. < 1549918176 458952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: split it? < 1549918193 604143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo let's just get a billboard in iowa < 1549918255 455928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: in the sense that the symbol written may depend on the current tape symbol... yes. < 1549918276 861438 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quantum ai cloud for IoT corn < 1549918286 642326 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hire a graffiti guy on silkroad to spray paint your startup name over teh bilboards < 1549918298 299651 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549918304 680084 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right but your machine reacts immediately instead of reacting based on the state that's entered. < 1549918321 319628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i get my billboard allocation on the \rainbow{blockchain} twh < 1549918330 793176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we care about Mealy and Moore machines? I do recall having to learn this for a computer architecture course but I never saw a motivation (and I can no longer remember which one is which) < 1549918335 63126 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1549918397 875135 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's mainly "how can input affect output". moore machines are typically more stable because their response is based on the current state rather than the current transition, so small "glitches" in input don't accidentally trigger outputs. < 1549918425 509572 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems like all automata are mealy machines, not moore ones. < 1549918503 126517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp harvard < 1549918504 2758 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549918516 952975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp neumann < 1549918517 982540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549918539 498371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a great prank this channel is. < 1549918555 433692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got people typing strings like "`grWp" non-ironically. < 1549918580 297901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's UsEfUl. < 1549918606 664591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like unix but even more ridiculous < 1549918636 802676 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549918640 150205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using the word "useful" in a very limited sense here, obviously; the usefulness does not extend beyond #esoteric.) < 1549918653 81928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #esoteric < 1549918654 167970 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone. < 1549918689 401223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is the AEZ below water? < 1549918731 244915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you understand windows SEH twh < 1549918737 48687 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549918740 305036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo why are windows things so complicated < 1549918748 998681 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are posix things so complicated < 1549918755 918958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also true < 1549918761 68708 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix is a shit-show < 1549918770 861356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1549918785 874651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but win32 is quite a mess itself < 1549918869 304992 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sorry for the MSFT engineers who had to reimplement all the wacky linux syscalls and flags etc < 1549918876 886733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to have done a really good job < 1549918912 484902 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing i tried in WSL that broke was gnu screen < 1549918918 812532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm going to blame screen for that by default < 1549918929 520767 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh does wine work in WSL? :P < 1549918939 704699 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is an enormous pile of cruft that is probably doing all kinds of terrible things < 1549918948 743276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and POSIX terminal stuff is crazy < 1549918983 705484 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you'd need to add an X server as that's not part of WSL < 1549919000 655094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux system call ABI is much more reasonable than all of POSIX. < 1549919019 115019 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1549919026 635678 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many ioctls they implemented < 1549919033 429466 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some for terminal stuff at least < 1549919039 442817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ioctl < 1549919040 437960 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1549919058 378177 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctls are bad < 1549919058 971365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something with HP Lovecraft, maybe? < 1549919123 423495 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wish I had a system call for... but I'd have to design a proper API and convince 10 million people... let's put in an ioctl instead." < 1549919130 376905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919188 40338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows approach of having regular functions for syscall services seems p. reasonable. < 1549919197 867282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they do all sorts of odd things. < 1549919205 971683 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1549919246 887584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way you make a window in Win32 is you pass it a window callback and it can call it whenever it feels like. < 1549919258 796190 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1549919267 646413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though you also need to get window events, it can call it outside your event loop. < 1549919275 338620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times imo < 1549919401 811422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a syscall ABI would probably not do things like that. < 1549919407 721979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for signals, I guess, so who knows. < 1549919535 752411 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919551 107808 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix signals are bad too < 1549919553 539450 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is bad < 1549919564 830528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are good < 1549919566 744532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything should be a fd < 1549919567 386537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cats < 1549919589 112290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalfd is pg < 1549919601 550476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows is full of handles IIRC < 1549919605 4554 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1549919620 486260 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: should i learn winapi sometime < 1549919623 832037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1549919631 372094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :signals are a mixed bag. some things really need to be so async that they should be handled by signals, so then you use signals. for some things like SIGPIPE the signal is only there for historical compatibility, and you just use the sane interface instead. < 1549919677 81474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the rest, when you don't need async but there's no specific non-signal interface, like SIGCLD, you use signalfd on linux, or have the signal wake up your event loop otherwise, for which there are event libraries like schmorp's libev. < 1549919681 302324 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced signals are the way to go < 1549919688 620996 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps it should be an option, yeah < 1549919690 503392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for unix. I don't know about win32 api. < 1549919697 533168 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think signalfd is a nicer way to do signals in many cases < 1549919710 73688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: like I said, sometimes you need them, and sometimes you don't, in any case we can't get rid of signals now < 1549919742 783700 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549919774 826716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows SEH is the analog of signals, I think? < 1549919789 21020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does all sorts of complicated things like stack unwinding. < 1549919813 511635 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack unwinding is complicated < 1549919819 166708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes SIGPIPE is useful for terminating the process without having to program it yourself (you can tell it to ignore SIGPIPE if you do not want that; custom signal handlers are probably not so useful for SIGPIPE though), but unfortunately you cannot tell which file descriptors to use SIGPIPE and which don't (except for sockets), which can be a problem if writing a library rather than a standalone program. < 1549919826 95348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the elf stack unwinding bytecode turing complete < 1549919881 246032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would think normally you would want SIGPIPE only for file descriptor 1 anyways, but nevertheless it is used for all file descriptors.) < 1549919950 137739 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o < 1549919983 835419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that openbsd implements pselect() as a userspace wrapper for select() < 1549919988 857167 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thereby defeating the entire purpose < 1549919997 171583 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and breaking posix compatibility < 1549920009 335010 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it was so at one point < 1549920013 671945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549920094 866963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1549920094 962857 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube < 1549920098 749913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1549920098 814812 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1549920105 567483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why can't we have nice software? < 1549920105 852245 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: today's revenge of the nerds is called? iirc, you're not using emacs. < 1549920114 591472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix is pretty esoteric < 1549920118 97703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think SIGPIPE is too useful even for fd 1, because the programs that want to terminate on SIGPIPE also want to terminate when they get any unexpected error from write, not just EPIPE. < 1549920123 227640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... worked better than expected < 1549920154 216367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, that is a valid point. < 1549920202 317665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think EPIPE comes from the times when memory was so tight that some programs didn't include the error handling code that they should have, just to gain a little space < 1549920332 182774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo invent a good system call api instead twh < 1549920370 364564 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, i've thought about it < 1549920382 896597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few things i think would be important < 1549920423 55533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 is a uniform way to refer to kernel objects < 1549920427 668955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a capability < 1549920450 904463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would prevent many issues in posix such as the race condition on PIDs, which are just integers and not fds < 1549920468 767725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: don't we already mostly have that, with file descriptor-like objects, fds on unix, and whatever their fancy windows equivalent is called on win32? < 1549920474 333972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some uppercase thing < 1549920485 728248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has some generic way to get sent to a spawned process too < 1549920488 510829 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that is the kind of thing i mean, but they aren't uniformly used in posix < 1549920494 957835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except lots of things aren't fds. < 1549920500 667680 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many other ways to refer to kernel objects which have various issues < 1549920515 28179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even designed better on win32 than on unix, though they have the advantage of less historical baggage < 1549920521 642516 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, you can fork() to create a child process, then the process dies and the PID is reused, now you will be sending signals to some random other process < 1549920525 201561 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if everything was a 64 bit UUID < 1549920529 603328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fork() even a good api < 1549920532 597573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it worth the trouble < 1549920536 229809 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably not, but it's fun < 1549920542 277303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, that one is a known problem that's still not solved < 1549920548 916069 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement a limited form of call/cc with fork < 1549920556 587513 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was p. happy with myself when i got that to work < 1549920563 244102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: 64 bits is not v. universal hth < 1549920567 102327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :naming processes < 1549920583 168587 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fork() and exec() should be combined into a single thing < 1549920583 638132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of something too, there is some similarity like Plan9 that you can use files for most stuff, so maybe if it is call Plan10. You can use file descriptors for many object including processes like you mention (although process IDs exist too, which are used to find a running process in the file system). If your program does not define Plan10Main() then the default implementation sets up POSIX compatibility and then calls main() < 1549920585 685378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the namespace is even just 15 bits large, so it gets reused very quickly < 1549920598 444640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The default implementation of Plan10Main() is added by the C compiler) < 1549920602 88852 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah sending fds or equivalent between processes is important < 1549920618 861420 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one of the good things in posix, even if the API for it is really shitty < 1549920627 928013 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :creds too < 1549920640 974491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think creds could be consumed by that sort of fd-as-capability, but i'm not sure < 1549920648 17378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, the sending part is fine, and both unix and win32 has that. the hard part is not sending on unix, again because of really old historical reasons < 1549920649 741362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know bitcoin does 2^65 hashes per second < 1549920659 69650 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1549920664 239902 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot < 1549920702 983300 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's too many, we need to shut down bitcoin < 1549920712 631694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I also think it's important to have a uniform way for userspace and kernelspace to exchange structured data < 1549920726 215836 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought of fork(), I thought that sometimes fork() is helpful although another variant that can often be better, which can be called cfork(), which shares all memory and all registers even including the program counter and stack pointer, and suspends the parent process; once the child terminates or executes another program instead then the parent continues from there; exec() returns 0 if successful in this case. < 1549920747 193506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than pointers to C structs? < 1549920771 976525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way, you can program many things before calling the other program. < 1549920780 562730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that just vfork? < 1549920786 962813 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be a) documented in a machine readable way, with b) autogenerated bindings for popular languages, c) typed, d) fast < 1549920789 709614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, it's slightly different from vfork < 1549920802 444575 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need vfork() anymore, because cfork() is better) < 1549920804 143276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one don't see the point to introduce that now, since we do have a working vfork < 1549920807 89023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1549920807 940737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, there are some problems with the ways structs are used in posix < 1549920813 821214 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find them pretty cumbersome < 1549920819 307453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, there are so many of them < 1549920827 773744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not quite; it is a bit different. < 1549920832 320706 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, at some point it might be good for OSes to be built on something other than raw binary data < 1549920833 36603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you designed it all over from the scratch it may have been better, < 1549920837 670763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see much point < 1549920843 619456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it would save much resources < 1549920847 975581 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a typed FS could be very interesting too < 1549920851 738348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :strongly typed shell pipelines < 1549920875 624367 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: PowerShell does that IIRC < 1549920883 880681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't PowerShell have typed pipelines? < 1549920891 860731 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: as it happens, Cap'n Proto satisfies all of those criteria, plus it has a capability system, plus compatibility between different protocol versions < 1549920944 993163 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another obvious thing to do with a capabilities based OS is to add some cryptography so that capabilities can be signed and serialized and shipped around the world < 1549920961 130995 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but windows is still built on top of raw CPU stuff rather than on top of the CLI < 1549920998 454902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cap'n Proto for system calls? I'm a bit skeptical. < 1549921003 998160 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you could have a strongly typed language as the layer below most of the operating system < 1549921008 9055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, it's just an aside < 1549921044 482101 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can send capabilites then you can also implement sockets that way < 1549921046 219299 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably cost some speed but increase safety < 1549921054 23429 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening a connection is done by sending a capability < 1549921071 849679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will also give you some transport layer security < 1549921084 623290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending a capability to whom? < 1549921094 831492 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. kernel capabilities and structured/typed data. < 1549921097 411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: most of those probably needn't involve the kernel, they can be done as a wrapper on user side, with a demon that handles the cryptography stuff < 1549921107 539930 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1549921115 54560 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree about structured data < 1549921118 376349 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sending it to a process on that machine which handles new connections, i guess < 1549921123 614970 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not sure about typed data or caps < 1549921124 171581 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with that is the vast amount of software already rlying at some point on the unsafety of the computer it runs on < 1549921150 4490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: speaking of all these things, have you seen the mill yet < 1549921165 288466 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>___< < 1549921168 341964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo watch the first few videos at 2x speed < 1549921171 66803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that vfork() does not share registers and does not guarantee sharing memory or suspending the parent process; my proposal changes those things. < 1549921217 913156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you like or dislike the thing where you have c structs which start with a tag and length field < 1549921228 444328 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can cast between different types > 1549921232 142348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59806&oldid=59781 5* 03Cortex 5* (+12) 10 < 1549921233 363899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes. and I still don't see why what you propose would be so useful it's worth kernel support < 1549921251 968395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that thing? < 1549921269 623011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: vfork suspends the parent process < 1549921290 975582 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like, you can have different versions of a struct but they all start with the information necessary to determine its type and length < 1549921296 650494 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk, seems like it could be good for api compatibility < 1549921305 143188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of a version with the length. < 1549921307 175266 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add fields w/o breaking anything < 1549921311 982685 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549921318 170019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the same function can accept multiple versions of a struct as long as you increase the length each time. < 1549921318 950951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but it doesn't _guarantee_ that, on account that Linus said like twenty-five years ago that if people abuse vfork for things that aren't just an optimization over fork, then he'll change it to act as fork < 1549921322 96540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said Windows does that? < 1549921326 500837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it. < 1549921334 517841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ksplice did some silly things to add fields to structs < 1549921343 917190 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes storing it in padding or an unused field < 1549921354 710432 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in a hash table keyed by the struct's address < 1549921412 656439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfork() isn't very pointful on modern virtual memory machines < 1549921448 711870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know there are some architectures without virtual memory where linux has vfork but not fork < 1549921452 588710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh are we discussing Linux or POSIX? The manpage says that POSIX deprecated vfork. < 1549921455 209373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it sure is, if you're like git and spawn a thousand child processes < 1549921468 242126 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that makes sense < 1549921478 438286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: As b_jonas said, it is not guaranteed. Also, it does not share the program counter with the parent process, and might not share variables that are stored in registers, as far as as I know. < 1549921574 308180 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you think it's good to have a syscall like clone() that lets you individually decide which things to share or not share? < 1549921587 465255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1549921599 530974 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549921605 463098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of windows system calls can take a process handle as an argument < 1549921614 586591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the mmap equivalent can allocate in another process's address space and so on < 1549921619 125776 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat < 1549921626 803495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems much nicer than ptrace for debuggers for instance < 1549921629 657004 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember UML doing some nasty hacks for that < 1549921636 804945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML? < 1549921639 965315 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :user mode linux < 1549921644 653771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1549921644 931756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :` uname -a < 1549921645 506299 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1549921646 653554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname -a < 1549921647 509001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1549921654 807000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1549921680 606201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that did mention UML at some point. < 1549921690 304115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat /proc/cpuinfo | sed -n 2p < 1549921691 27044 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vendor_id : User Mode Linux < 1549921692 358592 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same bot that was here forever ago < 1549921693 15343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ < 1549921709 658852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a reincarnation, the one that was here forever ago was called HackEgo < 1549921715 553888 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549921720 898173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same codebase? < 1549921731 175702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the userspace contents was inherited from a backup of HackEgo < 1549921738 836298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the codebase, fizzie knows < 1549921743 476950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he made some substantial changes < 1549921745 586491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember poking at UML for a while trying to find an exploit for the bot < 1549921746 892779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of it are probably kept < 1549921754 733647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I believe so, since Gregor made it public. < 1549921774 673634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that yes, yes, it's the same codebase) < 1549921777 305055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the keeper of the bot now < 1549921789 857583 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hackeso < 1549921790 952643 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso is almost but not quite unlike HackEgo. < 1549921839 19532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that missing a "completely"... < 1549921865 332006 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 'entirely' < 1549921873 453354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it would be false. < 1549921880 566918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: maybe you should work on the mill team < 1549921887 274652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some sweet equity < 1549921895 208048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ah yes, it's "entirely". < 1549921903 919311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot is also sort of such a reincarnation. I gave away the code but I no longer support it. < 1549921912 796397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use it though < 1549921921 800587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ |.'lufesu' < 1549921922 497688 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: useful < 1549921933 723597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it written in J? < 1549921935 215798 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :did tangentstorm succeed after you, or was there someone in-between? < 1549921938 433738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's essentially the same codebase, I've made a few tweaks but I made those when it was still HackEgo. < 1549921939 336856 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in ruby < 1549921941 690945 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, worse. ruby 1.8. < 1549921956 1629 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't speak ruby, so I just host it in a mostly-working state) < 1549921976 651217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got ported to ruby 1.9, and you have to correct syntax errors and then fix some references to String methods to port it over to any ruby that's still supported, which is like 2.1 now < 1549921982 294860 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: where's boily? < 1549921982 726481 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i see what you mean? if so, we can use more bits in local loops. it definitely uses _lots_ of tail calls is guaranteed to make venom bleed out of your nose < 1549921985 665800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2.3 or something < 1549921989 424544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe a few tweaks since then too. But still. < 1549921990 907464 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I might've done that maybe < 1549921999 997224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzie < 1549922000 907216 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall having to do some minor edits to get it running < 1549922020 42327 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby --version is apparently 2.5.0 < 1549922021 49145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might still have < 1549922029 259062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot source: < 1549922029 527390 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, jevalbot source is http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/jevalbot.tgz < 1549922030 789584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that command < 1549922032 775874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549922040 119504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that points to where I gave away the code < 1549922086 462067 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I should put the changes I made locally on https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot < 1549922095 490592 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then maybe update that command to point there instead.. < 1549922099 212320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549922103 25722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of opinion of some interactive fiction VMs such as Z-machine, Glulx, TAVERN, OASYS, etc? (Maybe in future might also be TAVERN32, to make a 32-bit VM to combine good ideas from Glulx with TAVERN.) < 1549922196 396366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: should 64-bit computers use a single address space < 1549922204 998804 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1549922207 699453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the advantage? < 1549922241 805271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX has positive (virtual) addresses, and negative (physical) addresses. < 1549922249 266417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the mill videos talks about it < 1549922256 876602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tlb, for one < 1549922272 591714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it's not on a hot path for every l1 access < 1549922384 884307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tricky... how do you do process isolation, and shared memory? < 1549922428 245689 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :channels~ < 1549922433 952306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the Mill people do it they have protection separate from translation. < 1549922440 938334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these work against each other but I imagine one would end up with something TLB-like that keeps track of ownership/permissions anyway, and you will have that in the path to L1, or incur the wrath of the spectre.) < 1549922755 414023 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, and it looks like I didn't declare you admin in the config file--I guess I could change that if you'd like < 1549922765 392455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't think it matters < 1549922780 190997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the admin thingy is not very useful, especially since it goes only by nick < 1549922780 661638 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I'll keep it as it is then < 1549922788 290274 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *nod* < 1549922795 466769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't allow anything to admins that you don't want to allow to everyone < 1549922797 219684 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it doesn't let an admin do too much < 1549922802 521425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you change that code entirely < 1549922811 209555 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :As mentioned, I don't really speak ruby :p < 1549922822 243341 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my modifications have been minimal < 1549922834 917343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to allow more administration stuff, you probably have to add a local control interface that doesn't go through IRC. it's possible through irc, but not very useful < 1549922870 122545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: from memory, it allows to quit the entire bot, to join or leave channels, to enable or disable the short invocation on channels, < 1549922875 531037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to ignore or unignore people < 1549922878 257676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicks < 1549922896 743419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you query whether a nick is registered on nickserv? < 1549922900 680110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i mean < 1549922909 61946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can. it's a bit complicated < 1549922915 980142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's three IRC extensions that you have to use for it < 1549922918 617658 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean nowadays you can request a capability for it < 1549922918 746726 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have it check that the nick being used is registered to the right account < 1549922921 766537 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1549922944 460479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for this, it's not really worth IMO < 1549922949 201589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be worth for other IRC stuff < 1549922955 364951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell the details if you really care < 1549922962 69238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to implement it that is < 1549922995 582711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured it out at some point, with the help of #freenode, for potentially the other IRC bot < 1549923001 901636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never really considered it for jevalbot < 1549923013 654948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can check for the client's address. < 1549923034 845913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the entire address for authentication instead of only the nickname. < 1549923042 809635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes you can, if you want anyone on the wifi behind the NAT to control the bot < 1549923056 560467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that's a well-spread security model in some companies, but I don't really like it < 1549923088 744212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can be problem if you have Wi-Fi. But even then you could use cloaking; Freenode has that < 1549923113 474557 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the model where you need the login password of one of 20 random people working at the company to access every private data of the company isn't a model I like < 1549923134 327833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: even without wifi it's a bad idea, most local networks are just not controlled enough < 1549923186 741372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and yes, you could use cloaking, that's a bit better, but then you could also use an invite-only channel, or just control the bot locally without going over IRC < 1549923217 170505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, it can work if it is controlled enough. But, yes, invite might also do, if you need to do with IRC. Local administration is probably best though in most cases < 1549923247 687918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also send a password with each command in PM < 1549923268 583172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, but if it's a cleartext password, then you need a way to tell that the bot is really what it claims it to be < 1549923273 991977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which you need a channel < 1549923275 149013 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549923277 230194 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549923282 553198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets uglier than the bot telling who you are < 1549923285 468490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I thought of that too, but you will need to identify them like b_jonas mention < 1549923293 727640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a channel or memoserv actually) < 1549923312 713007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid that by using cryptography < 1549923375 218430 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a little cumbersome to sign every message, but you could have an IRC client do it I suppose < 1549923410 93206 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://github.com/FireyFly/jevalbot/commit/e715b6d0bc1d4a8578d5c7e8d803b0cb069c71f6 the diff is a bit messy, I guess I also removed some trailing whitespace at some point < 1549923438 120389 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently with the version check commented out and mostly like.. changing some regexps to use RegExp.new, it seems to work < 1549923505 625552 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I guess I didn't care much for the nickserv bits.. < 1549923527 95567 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, I switched to identifying to nickserv account via PASS instead < 1549923927 821675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mill also does implement fork using a special kind of translation < 1549923946 694383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swapped a CDful of randomness with a friend once with the intention of using it for one-time padding our /query. < 1549923951 647595 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never unfortunately happened. < 1549924048 115118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fungot's admin privilege is enabled by matching the message prefix to a preset nick!user@host (because it was easier than any wildcarding), which I guess should be as difficult to circumvent as getting an arbitrary cloak on Freenode is. < 1549924048 416171 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the germanic subset is fnord, even to non-customers: a few people :) and no confirmed time travelers < 1549924241 393826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Remember that one-time authentication scheme we talked about once? < 1549924257 807269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how it worked but it was TG that it was possible < 1549924354 488018 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1549924395 901489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The counterpart of one-time pads for authentication < 1549924505 963049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, it's kind of scow that OTP is so malleable < 1549924511 876084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do better twh < 1549924564 393324 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure... add authentication < 1549924574 832683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that < 1549924583 154928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a feature < 1549924607 234465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cipher modes are less malleable than others < 1549924633 279574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't use stream ciphers for disk encryption for various reasons probably including this one < 1549925174 411276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah disk encryption is weird < 1549925255 414684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not actually this reason but related reasons that also apply to OTP < 1549925259 749308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... where do you put the MAC :) (I learned that "enterprise" drives support sector sizes a bit over a power of two for that purpose.) < 1549925342 670816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, do you know the trick for using arbitrary memory as a zero-initialized array without explicitly initializing it? < 1549925354 922586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a good trick but it was kind of surprising that it was possible. < 1549925363 156133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/good/practical/ < 1549925514 130547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549925529 144603 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1549925580 316138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need two extra arrays of the same length. < 1549925732 25133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is, you have three arrays, T data[N], int valid[N], int confirmation[N], and an index, c, where confirmation[0:c] is considered initialized. < 1549925754 293820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid has indices into confimration, and confirmation has indices into valid < 1549925767 731979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[i] is valid if valid[i] < c, and confirmation[valid[i]] == i < 1549925774 403685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knew < 1549925799 524003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's useful for sparse arrays if you have tons of memory? < 1549925839 114839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each time you see an invalid index you add it to confirmation and increment c. < 1549925842 170680 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wager there's no practical use for it. < 1549925853 620870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if T is huge itself. < 1549925931 651843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted you could have one bit vector indicating which elements of your data array are valid. < 1549925937 877214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see uses for that. < 1549925959 584112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sounds more sensible. < 1549925988 649882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop saying "vector" to mean "array" < 1549925990 450273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from a theoretical perspective this is brilliant :) < 1549926017 112679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this trick for the whoa, dude value < 1549926031 128156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any more whoa, dude algorithm tricks for me twh < 1549926035 117170 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and start using "matrix" to mean "heap"? < 1549926048 701761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1549926053 534439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :x += y; y = x - y; x -= y; < 1549926083 90906 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector is a c++ism anyway < 1549926109 137658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i https://twitter.com/johnregehr/status/1093948316948168704 < 1549926114 841895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the ^ swap trick for rings that don't have characteristic 2.) < 1549926181 631707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1549926204 594753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What algorithms should go in my list of clever and simple algorithms? < 1549926238 621688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1549926240 202542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashlife < 1549926240 597959 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort I guess? < 1549926246 739072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pollard's rho hash collisions < 1549926269 111308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :questions. < 1549926271 372341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :exhaustive search of compact infinite spaces ("seemingly impossible functional programs") < 1549926292 796117 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, mergesort is IMO the simplest efficient sort < 1549926315 872653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mergesort is a bit too well known. < 1549926378 529357 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although I'm not actually sure what makes me percieve it as simpler than quicksort < 1549926391 965623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :quacksort < 1549926417 721211 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because there's no question of arbitrarily picking a pivot < 1549926438 336136 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore no weird inputs that can screw it up < 1549926486 279739 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah htat's why mergesort is simpler to implement < 1549926528 983386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: related to the collisions: rainbow tables < 1549926538 463756 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need heap sort to combine the advantages < 1549926560 759098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That uninitialized memory trick seems very close to the other uninitialized memory trick, https://research.swtch.com/sparse < 1549926574 407358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Rainbow tables are kind of close to Pollard's Rho, right? < 1549926596 164563 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but heapsort is hard to remember the details of, even more than quicksort < 1549926670 334645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't that the same trick? < 1549926679 417764 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they solve a different problem (preimages) and they have the distinguished subset trick for that. Which also comes in handy when parallelizing the search for hash collisions. < 1549926685 304852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is-member(i): return sparse[i] < n && dense[sparse[i]] == i" is the thing I said, anyway < 1549926714 298116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Your trick had an extra T data[N], this is just a set of integers. But I guess it's essentially the same trick. < 1549926734 120713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just use void as T, I think. < 1549926761 868892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming sizeof (void data[N]) == 0 < 1549926771 766731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also assuming that's not a syntax error. < 1549926772 263908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. So it's an (allegedly) practical use for the trick, then. < 1549926807 596377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a syntax error. `sizeof (void[N])` would have been a constraint violation but not a syntax error. < 1549926822 268299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although on GCC it would've been just N. < 1549926873 385370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing. At least it allows pointer arithmetic on a `void *` assuming an element size of 1. For consistency's sake, you'd expect sizeof (void) == 1.) < 1549926884 575829 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, consistency < 1549926897 238595 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so, basically, I think the distinguished subset trick, while related, is worth having its own entry on the list of clever ideas < 1549926900 258248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In GNU C, addition and subtraction operations are supported on pointers to void and on pointers to functions. This is done by treating the size of a void or of a function as 1. < 1549926903 271304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A consequence of this is that sizeof is also allowed on void and on function types, and returns 1." < 1549926906 299481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, consistency. < 1549926916 809152 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1549926919 153637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could also put a generation ID for each element and increase it by 1 to reset. < 1549926964 266488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Come to think of it, it might still not allow arrays of void even if void has a size.) < 1549926970 954809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the sizeof an uninhabited type < 1549926979 171390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it -∞ < 1549926980 643336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1549926990 860873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has COMBINING INFINITY᪲ < 1549926994 508653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no one ever told me < 1549927002 712126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW < 1549927043 753398 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :modular smileys? < 1549927062 28776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining left-eyed monocle < 1549927072 574268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :°͜° < 1549927108 362258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH LIGHT CENTRALIZATION STROKE" (and the same for U) is the longest-named combining character. < 1549927125 173177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH DOUBLE MIDDLE TILDE as the runner-up. < 1549927149 818938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMBINING HORN is the shortest. < 1549927157 96362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH LIGHT CENTRALIZATION STROKE matches it < 1549927157 889214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's also a magical artifact? < 1549927167 913368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's "the same for U". < 1549927173 515361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1549927178 728450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't expect me to read inside parentheses! < 1549927189 646506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: disjoint set forests are probably my favorite data structure < 1549927196 722434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Union-find? < 1549927198 859015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1549927205 380916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that data structure is tg < 1549927240 869882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add to my question that I mean data structures and algorithms that aren't in a typical undergraduate CS curriculum or something. < 1549927314 20906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is reading Unicode character names so much fun anyway? I can't stop imagining the warning signs about COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW. < 1549927323 719175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the shortest code point name < 1549927334 10791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like U+1F402 OX < 1549927337 242349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1549927349 180843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM is still the longest. < 1549927410 764756 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the syntax ```namespace {``` mean? < 1549927413 340825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't this channel going to adopt a code point together < 1549927419 579258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: It's an unnamed namespace. < 1549927423 628124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: unnamed namespace, or unnamespace for short hth < 1549927431 384668 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it < 1549927461 407320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the namespace that can be spoken of < 1549927461 715961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: You can use it to make symbols externally invisible. < 1549927465 361460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the eternal namespace < 1549927469 848933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its members have potential scope from their point of declaration to the end of the translation unit, and have internal linkage." < 1549927481 492107 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need them to be externally visible agian god damn it < 1549927485 508053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be thankful they didn't use the keyword "static" for it. < 1549927497 68050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :static namespace { < 1549927498 380012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"static namespace { ... }" has a nice ring. < 1549927507 583616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you hear that one about the hyphenated keywords? < 1549927530 37748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While one might think such things are too ridiculous to consider, note that we received serious-seeming suggestions during JEP 325 to use `new switch` to describe a switch with different semantics. Presumably to be followed by `new new switch` in ten years." < 1549927534 380689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/amber-spec-experts/2019-January/000945.html < 1549927538 587981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was for Java.) < 1549927578 23957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you gotta change the vowel < 1549927587 714949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tl;dr is a suggestion to allow - and - constructions to be used as keywords. < 1549927588 122023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch swatch swetch swotch swutch < 1549927634 128465 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I'm temporarily nameing the previously unnamed namespace as "namespace goddamnit {" < 1549927636 119689 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'static namespace' would be p. reasonable < 1549927646 501138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespace[static 4] < 1549927654 437393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I've usually used "namespace internal {" if I've needed an unnamed namespace that's named. < 1549927678 977944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then 'using internal;'? < 1549927682 250639 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it only needs to be named until I find the bug < 1549927684 48307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use using at file scope? < 1549927696 963847 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that the Unicode red heart emoji is actually HEAVY BLACK HEART < 1549927699 945775 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only just learned this < 1549927713 142704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a change imo < 1549927720 581170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I know that trick (of using uninitialized memory), but I think that's one of those things that are almost never practical in the real world < 1549927725 781528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use "using namespace /name/;" at file scope. < 1549927744 243614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I tried to make a HEAVY BLACK HEART with COMBINING INFINITY but it looks terrible :/ < 1549927753 366608 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, right < 1549927765 418607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i like this trick for the whoa, dude value" => yeah, that's a good summary < 1549927780 960890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That one seems to be rendering as a black heart here? < 1549927800 703122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://emojipedia.org/heavy-black-heart/ < 1549927804 307104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of actual colored hearts. < 1549927819 397986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is it. < 1549927837 746268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my Android keyboard has two different smiley faces that look similar. One of them has a smile that's a little bit wider. < 1549927841 532269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which one to use. < 1549927860 412883 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1549927869 488278 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to determine the codepoint numbers of them? < 1549927875 253405 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549927879 70360 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do that then you can figure out which one should be used. < 1549927879 796379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I don't feel like bothering. < 1549927889 598571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the other one is the SLIGHTLY SMILING FACE. < 1549927898 493019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so complicated to transfer text from my computer to my phone? < 1549927907 691721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, that sounds plausible. < 1549927922 709459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if I want a full smile I gotta give up on SLIGHTLY SMILING FACE. < 1549927928 740652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WSL terminal doesn't support emoji and stuff :( < 1549927933 960470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (The new Hangouts Chat experience shows the names in the suggestobox when you type a : on the computer.) < 1549927937 468339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: transfer to your phone for what goal? < 1549927951 54188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But Hangouts Chat isn't available for consumers, right? < 1549927955 544167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have internet access on your phone? can you pastebin the text? < 1549927964 342796 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's only available to G Suite customers, yes. < 1549927968 31826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's the hassley way. < 1549928267 644849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use a temporary Google Keep note for that. < 1549928279 39453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's also what I do! < 1549928295 290002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it involves many steps. < 1549928301 9546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I've been thinking it's not the right way to use Keep, but two people can't be wrong. < 1549928312 336108 :zemhill______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928315 123396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably have a special-purpose Keep note for it so I can select all. < 1549928315 187719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does involve that, yes. And the syncing isn't super seamless. < 1549928315 423534 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928320 778858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I have other junk in the same note. < 1549928325 787786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill______: You're getting a little ridiculous with the underscores. < 1549928388 876412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should finish migrating the BF Joust hill to esolangs.org and the esowiki bot, then I could retire that thing.) < 1549928675 596606 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549928707 442983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what's that now. < 1549928722 282573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot` < 1549928722 417191 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i did just now is instead of storing the data in. < 1549928733 302908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that explains it < 1549928742 123092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the other one dropped off. < 1549928748 796662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1549928749 97885 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the only thing that guy knows how to quote " within fnord in forth? all other postscript operator names ( re stack, anyway, try the lot and see what it looks like < 1549928764 452158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't actually know what it's own nick is.) < 1549928793 174393 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928793 720928 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928793 720984 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 360502 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vowwzubkvuqusyig QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 636465 :neanias!sid218528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ixiabwokfocrecue QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 807872 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928794 847272 :zemhill_____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1549928861 625923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Now Unicode also has a BLACK HEART which is actually rendered black < 1549928895 597864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :♪ I see a red heart and I want it painted black ♪ < 1549928901 125350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1549928942 904377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the old Android hearts? They were nonsense. < 1549928948 135640 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1549928962 852380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was YELLOW HEART https://emojipedia.org/google/android-4.4/yellow-heart/ < 1549928972 991468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549928973 817151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And https://emojipedia.org/google/android-4.4/green-heart/ and so on < 1549929079 226722 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :J? < 1549929107 914860 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ intended for ctrl-f search, saw a glimpse of "J?" in the scrollup < 1549929141 45097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey! that might be the one rare example when my honorable and learned friend fungot put a space after an open quotation mark correctly < 1549929141 229684 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: null date, null char, null int, null double, null etc). what good is functional programming" < 1549929197 242107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are you sure? isn't it just rendered solid, when normally heart suit and diamond suit would be rendered as an outline? < 1549929222 804897 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1549929231 986946 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929241 776895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has both BLACK HEART SUIT ♥ and WHITE HEART SUIT ♡ < 1549929264 339611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HEAVY BLACK HEART ❤ and BLACK HEART 🖤 < 1549929279 518326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um yes, so I say those are solid and outlined respectively, whereas the original heart suit is ambiguous < 1549929296 462328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like how the ascii minus and ascii hyphen are ambiguous too < 1549929354 789382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929394 980121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549929400 230647 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549929403 170856 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549929413 239649 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but they later biguated them in unicode but kept the ambiguous one too < 1549929459 336532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any "original heart suit", all three of HEAVY BLACK HEART, BLACK HEART SUIT and WHITE HEART SUIT are from Unicode 3.2. < 1549929499 924688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMILING HEART WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES < 1549929509 686857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCOWMAN WITHOUT SCOW < 1549929515 853380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the cat w/ heart eyes < 1549929527 592543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats are tg < 1549929539 836513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can #esoteric be the esolang + cat channel < 1549929541 923629 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss when emojis were tiny inline .gif files < 1549929551 236809 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on forums and stuff? < 1549929554 349764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA had some good ones < 1549929556 43772 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549929572 813847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo why doesn't unicode have combining characters to control animation < 1549929574 505190 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on AIM < 1549929580 335133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: "biguated"? what does that mean? < 1549929581 353721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In Chat, I keep a catbot window open because it doesn't have any "no chat visible" mode (that I can find) and it feels arbitrary to keep a specific chat window open. < 1549929596 257751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Chat being Hangouts Chat? < 1549929608 641905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, the thing you can't have. But still. < 1549929611 234255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the deal with programs not having a "no chat visible" mode, anyway? So annoying. < 1549929624 666543 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: biguate: to make something biguous, or less ambiguous < 1549929626 634490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In plain Hangouts I think you could have a "no chat visible" mode. < 1549929639 345767 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I use Slack -- which I try not to -- I keep having to type "C-k sla" to switch to Slackbot, as a semi-neutral thing. < 1549929652 703068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Pidgin I gave up and I just leave focus on the first tab. < 1549929660 715831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there has to be an original heart suit, doesn't there? there's a heart suit character in both cp437 and in windows Symbol font < 1549929678 275432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are encodings they've encoded in unicode < 1549929679 834420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so annoying. < 1549929685 783858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: ah < 1549929716 340104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I thought that's called "disambiguating", or "dambing" for short in Wikipedia jargon < 1549929723 691857 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1549929746 504990 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that "disam" seems like two negative prefixes in a row < 1549929751 971496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That does't mean it needs to have an ambiguous "original heart suit". I think the CP437 heart suit character is just translated to the BLACK HEART SUIT. < 1549929774 878354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, it's possible that one or more of those characters is the original one < 1549929775 466509 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"noninflammable" < 1549929816 647553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or both of the Commodore PET/64 charsets also have a heart suit < 1549929817 622698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"am" is a negative prefix? < 1549929848 712901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, but "a" is, and taking just one letter off from a word that isn't actually prefixed would be misunderstandible < 1549929858 195054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "an" is a negative prefix, and "am" is close < 1549929912 532815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the Unicode official CP437 table -- https://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/PC/CP437.TXT -- doesn't actually translate the <' ' characters to their graphical equivalents, but to the corresponding control characters. < 1549929922 390747 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.dictionary.com/browse/an- < 1549929934 78240 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1549929940 952333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm ok < 1549929956 125209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how about the translation tables from symbol and petscii? < 1549929968 286456 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many bytes and codepoints wasted on never used ascii control characters :( < 1549929985 118727 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's why I often go out of my way to use them < 1549930015 726835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they aren't never used. they were used as control characters in terminal/console keyboard input. < 1549930023 261813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the low ascii ones < 1549930030 797459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're very rarely used today < 1549930034 470762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the high controls not that much < 1549930034 680114 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C1 control characters even less so < 1549930050 636534 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can send ECMA-48 codes using them, but people mainly use the low escapes instead < 1549930074 904356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: these days we aren't stuck with a font of 128 characters burnt into ram, so there's no such thing as "wasted" characters really < 1549930108 689742 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, one can avoid many problems by using \37 as your separator in CSV files < 1549930125 256833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you could have shorter UTF-8 strings if some of the two byte characters were representable in one byte < 1549930138 900397 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead those bytes are practically unused < 1549930174 735357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: yes, I currently use \x1F as a sort of separator in a text file I write from one program and read from another program, where I have to save text that can in theory contain arbitrary unicode characters, though rarely does < 1549930191 287436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I found the "IBM PC memory-mapped video graphics to Unicode" table -- https://unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MISC/IBMGRAPH.TXT -- and that one maps the 03 to 2665 BLACK HEART SUIT, so that's arguably the original. < 1549930228 389342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use \x10 as an escape prefix for certain control characters, plus \x11 to represent a crlf in the original < 1549930245 581758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have code to read the \x10 escapes by the way, because they've never come up yet < 1549930250 200325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have code to write it < 1549930255 652972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this new emoji people are using is SHOCKED FACE WITH EXPLODING HEAD 🤯 < 1549930258 643942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the \x11 comes up, because some of the strings have crlf < 1549930266 802717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549930286 191144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I think I actually use \x0B to represent a crlf < 1549930287 575092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not \x11 < 1549930298 362659 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :test _ < 1549930323 995334 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, \37 is underline in IRC < 1549930339 718970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, HEAVY BLACK HEART clearly hasn't been intended to be related to any of that, it's in the "Punctuation ornaments" subsection of the "Dingbats" with the FLORAL HEART and HEAVY HEART EXCLAMATION MARK ORNAMENT and ROTATED HEAVY BLACK HEART BULLET and suchlike. < 1549930357 676119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's very unfortunate that it got co-opted to be the standard red heart on systems.) < 1549930414 266826 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that seems weird to me < 1549930445 324000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing nobody was willing to wait for the actual emoji stuff? < 1549930447 491128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The black and white heart suits are part of Miscellaneous Symbols / Playing card symbols.) < 1549930933 93405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The specific use case of a sparse set that needs efficient iteration is a good one, I guess. < 1549930949 950083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'd want something like the dense array anyway. < 1549933141 754441 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933183 737281 :neanias!sid218528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arxjcafvxtqqivcm JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933186 417376 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-polzogpvdiocutwl JOIN :#esoteric < 1549933909 101346 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I use a C++17 if with an init-statement, I get the feeling I'm actually writing Go instead. < 1549933944 780405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you know you can declare variables in the middle statement of a for loop? < 1549933947 684114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned that today. < 1549934041 857947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that. < 1549934288 871805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you always been able to do that? Apparently at least from C++11 onwards, and also in the condition part of while and if. < 1549934373 232138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you always have. Or at least from C++03, which is far enough. < 1549934384 176041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. In C you definitely can't. < 1549934435 854916 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Yeah, and it was kinda new you could do it in the first statement of a for loop. < 1549934454 640998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not quite as useful as the init-statement if/while, but could still be useful. < 1549934479 238190 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The init statement if/while is pretty useful. < 1549934498 202259 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it's not C. < 1549934506 698189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's as useful as doing it in a while, which I did know C++ allowed. < 1549934524 991518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it allows the Go-style init-statement in a while. < 1549934532 118318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's not the same. < 1549934539 681515 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no reason it couldn't be in C that I know of, for that matter) < 1549934781 995855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The init statement makes this more useful with iterators. For pointers you could've done `if (auto p = find(x)) use(p);` even before, but now you can also `if (auto it = x.find(y); it != x.end()) use(it);` < 1549934881 519512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they add statement expressions ever < 1549934986 260815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my until-end-of-block if statement, you don't need initialization statements as a special feature. < 1549935006 656551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write "if (x := y; z) { ... }" as "{ x := y; if(z); ... }" < 1549935331 810881 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cetctcgelvhbwdpe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549935832 448132 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20070829102324/http://www.ccs3.lanl.gov/mega-math/infinity.map <3 < 1549935989 687102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-74.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549936105 293025 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549936226 535458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549936375 103209 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549937181 95556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the god of snow? > 1549937493 628305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59807&oldid=59657 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10 > 1549937517 535558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59808&oldid=59807 5* 03A 5* (+56) 10 > 1549937542 775177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59809&oldid=59808 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10 > 1549937633 470240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59810&oldid=59809 5* 03A 5* (+15) 10 > 1549937652 83945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59811&oldid=59810 5* 03A 5* (-17) 10 > 1549937681 404025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59812&oldid=59811 5* 03A 5* (+78) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549937720 224915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59813&oldid=57455 5* 03A 5* (-4602) 10Blanked the page > 1549937736 315526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59814&oldid=59812 5* 03A 5* (+51) 10 > 1549937868 320229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59815&oldid=59814 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10 > 1549937886 237248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59816&oldid=59815 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549938081 380832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59817&oldid=59816 5* 03A 5* (+101) 10/* Custom links */ > 1549938704 372255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59818&oldid=59817 5* 03A 5* (+814) 10 > 1549938753 777851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59819&oldid=59818 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Redirected page to [[User:A]] < 1549938800 959903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.132.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549938869 751362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59820&oldid=59819 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10 > 1549938920 294720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59821&oldid=59820 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10 > 1549939353 310688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59822&oldid=59821 5* 03A 5* (+456) 10 > 1549939378 316732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59823&oldid=59822 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549939531 842832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59824&oldid=59823 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549939989 467533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59825&oldid=59824 5* 03A 5* (-56) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549940129 257738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59826&oldid=59825 5* 03A 5* (+57) 10 > 1549940325 249247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59827&oldid=59826 5* 03A 5* (+120) 10 > 1549940372 28866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59828&oldid=59827 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* How to cook your delicious computer */ > 1549940429 510701 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59829&oldid=59828 5* 03A 5* (-79) 10 > 1549940455 963417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59830&oldid=59829 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10 < 1549946540 679925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A A A < 1549946997 439639 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549948472 509639 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549948772 922874 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59831&oldid=59830 5* 03A 5* (+468) 10 > 1549948852 629195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59832&oldid=59831 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Function innovation */ < 1549949035 676569 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549949253 908951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59833&oldid=59832 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10 > 1549949280 272059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59834&oldid=59833 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950166 190771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59835&oldid=59834 5* 03A 5* (+299) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950252 617201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59836&oldid=59835 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950374 497055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59837&oldid=59836 5* 03A 5* (+201) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950420 113761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59838&oldid=59837 5* 03A 5* (-14) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950439 11599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59839&oldid=59838 5* 03A 5* (-17) 10/* Impossible to describe function? */ > 1549950603 190208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59840&oldid=59839 5* 03A 5* (-1906) 10 > 1549950686 728784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59841&oldid=59840 5* 03A 5* (+49) 10 > 1549950844 164789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59842&oldid=59841 5* 03A 5* (+155) 10 > 1549950953 106067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59843&oldid=59842 5* 03A 5* (+89) 10 > 1549951044 874824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59844&oldid=59843 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10 > 1549951062 843015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59845&oldid=59844 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10 < 1549951082 694319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what he's on about. < 1549951097 960562 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't seem to know much if anything. < 1549951116 900764 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made a two-variable factorial function. > 1549951478 881499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59846&oldid=59845 5* 03A 5* (-11) 10 < 1549951507 2164 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549951588 828863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59847&oldid=59846 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10 < 1549952075 436920 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549953237 953051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549953584 918739 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1549961351 237038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hizzie < 1549961362 474113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I download IRC logs with wget -c < 1549961382 539794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something about the configuration of the HTTP server makes it so it tries to redownload a fully-downloaded file? < 1549961409 374393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2019-01.txt doesn't have a Content-Length < 1549961448 944821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe these are generated from a database or something instead of being real files. < 1549961600 328734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: those aren't files; they are generated from a database on the spot < 1549961614 184349 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confirming what you wrote) < 1549961885 836177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I supposed to download IRC logs, anyway? < 1549961894 175514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do now is make a list of files and wget -ci it < 1549961907 744713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I add newer files at the top < 1549962368 878030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know. < 1549962415 633358 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549964441 257204 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549964703 261339 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549964764 946759 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549965882 722835 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549965943 468615 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549966005 115963 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549966031 416652 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549967152 687446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Luqui 5* 10New user account > 1549967883 894773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59848&oldid=59749 5* 03Luqui 5* (+190) 10/* Introductions */ > 1549967896 525817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59849&oldid=59813 5* 03Luqui 5* (+193) 10/* Impossible */ new section > 1549967910 898102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59850&oldid=59849 5* 03Luqui 5* (-17) 10 > 1549967921 360030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59851&oldid=59850 5* 03Luqui 5* (+1) 10/* Impossible */ > 1549968397 89028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59852&oldid=59851 5* 03Luqui 5* (+195) 10/* Impossible */ > 1549968460 210957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59853&oldid=59852 5* 03Luqui 5* (+19) 10 < 1549968857 240567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549969076 307820 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549969076 389040 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549969151 65323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, it's tricky. The "real" files are essentially the daily -raw.txt ones, except in https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/log.proto form and with the past (immutable) days Brotli-compressed. < 1549969169 448267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I could easily expose those real files, but maybe you don't want to download them in that form. < 1549969297 424650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Supporting Content-Length to the formatted monthly files would involve either scanning all the logs twice, or buffering it all in memory, and that'd be sad to do when not absolutely necessary. < 1549969719 683348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I *could* send a Last-Modified header with the files, and support the If-Modified-Since request header, which would at least allow you to use "wget -Ni" to not download the files that haven't changed, although it would still redownload the unmodified prefix that you already had of the most recent month every time. < 1549970027 278652 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970027 361169 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549970214 344679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I might also consider supporting Range requests, but it would be a bit more work, and for that to be useful you'd need to wget to work in some sort of "append mode" where it just sends "Range: bytes N-" where N is the size of the local file it has. < 1549970227 885929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to wget/to convince wget/ < 1549970260 725857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be doing that with -c, I don't know. < 1549970315 306668 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970403 236090 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.23.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549970403 283723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, doing that would still need me to essentially compute Content-Length, because while the Content-Range header can say something like "bytes N-M/*" to indicate the instance length is unknown, it must still provide concrete numbers M and N before streaming the response body. < 1549970529 759877 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549970729 455491 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549971191 485001 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ...or maybe you could just make your download script do something like (where $f is the "2019-02.txt" or equivalent): if [[ $(date -r $f +%Y-%m.txt) > $f ]]; then true; else wget https://esolangs.org/logs/$f; fi < 1549971382 485969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think that should only download files one extra time after the titular month is complete. Feel free to use ! in the condition instead of the "then true; else" nonsense, I'm always too afraid of Bash conditional expressions to. < 1549971975 305060 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549972148 872296 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549972505 987772 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549972671 259072 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549973066 938788 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549973196 201353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the handy reference chart at http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html claims that the god of snow is Hoder. < 1549973283 242165 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: although according to Age of Mythology it's Skadi https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Skadi < 1549975825 779089 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-01.html#l2mb , you know there are these nouns and adjectives associated with operations: "addition, additive" for plus, "subtraction, subtractive" for minus, "multiplication, multiplicative" for times, "conjunction, conjunctive" for and, "disjuction, disjuctive" for or. Is there such a fancy name for xor? Or do we < 1549975825 861338 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just called that "exclusive disjuction, exclusive disjunctive"? < 1549976296 425796 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549976478 356968 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549976506 223734 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "implication, implicative" for logical le, but the normal term for logical xnor is "equivalence", which doesn't end in "ation" so it dosen't help us. I think there was an obscure synonym "biimplication" though, so for xor we could use the term "inbiimplication, inbiimplicative", only that sounds horrible < 1549976563 281993 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_connective mentions "bi-implication" and "biconditional". < 1549976737 423872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might just be that "exclusive disjunction". < 1549976752 145924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I fully support all efforts to add new obscure terms. < 1549977549 462615 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549977820 451258 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, "bitwise exclusive disjunctive" is obscure enough I think < 1549977919 881362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about min and max, are there such terms for those operations too? < 1549977941 655901 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maximization" is already taken for something else < 1549977987 590139 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gcd and lcm :-) < 1549978037 293781 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that would be "greatest common division, greatest common divisive" and "least common multiplication, least common multiplicative" < 1549978198 351836 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to read what Knuth and Iverson use for these, they might give good ideas for words < 1549978387 16493 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we use something like "masonry" and "carpentry" for min and max respectively, given that Iverson associates them with floor and ceiling? are there adjective forms of "mason" and "carpenter"? < 1549978605 521966 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe some terms associated with heaven and hell. < 1549978672 560656 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "descension, descensive" and "ascension, ascensive"? < 1549978705 394891 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1549978815 231439 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! apparently the term for xor is "exclusion, exclusive" < 1549978821 135353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like that < 1549978829 690501 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foundation, foundative for "floor"? < 1549978829 732597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to mess with "exclusive disjunctive" < 1549978855 428540 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'd like a matching pair, naming min and max in a related way < 1549979000 461419 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549979053 316799 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "demonization, demonizative" and "angelization, angelizative" works. < 1549979083 78497 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be something about hills and valleys < 1549979262 622344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggizing, biggisive; smallizing, smallisive. < 1549979444 205583 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "inflation" and "deflation" < 1549979469 983154 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :economists use lots of fancy jargons, we could ask them what they call something that causes inflation and deflation resp < 1549979497 959726 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or doctors for what they call something that causes growth (or welling) and shrinking resp < 1549979528 308477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that whole bull/bear/hawk/dove thing that I can never keep straight. < 1549979530 70429 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must have fancy latin terms for these < 1549979540 422799 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have to go < 1549979547 433861 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what bull/bear/hawk/dove < 1549979550 799509 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549979557 471704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The markets thing. < 1549979566 656250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.binaryoptions.co.uk/trading-terms for a random up-the-top Google link. < 1549979571 789187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions not endorsed. < 1549979657 372916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "have to go" as in right now. < 1549979688 170937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02-12.html#lOd < 1549979688 522028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1549979804 246689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"binary options" in the domain? that's not inspiring any confidence. < 1549979834 289739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a nice wavy rainbow logo, that has to count for something. < 1549979937 157490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "I've bought a binary option at the horse races." ) < 1549979978 438242 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549979985 792880 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost went for a lottery ticket but those tend to have multiple payout options. < 1549980009 532241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which makes them non-binary. < 1549980274 855082 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 NICK :arseniiv < 1549981047 157173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1549982808 383632 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549985568 603078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I usually thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of her statement, but it was handed to me just as I left my office to come down here, so I can only assume she entrusted the Transport Secretrary to deliver it to me." -- Corbyn made a joke :) < 1549988465 108108 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alovmsucilpdgipm JOIN :#esoteric < 1549991103 308193 :poq!~null@skidstain.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549991128 98574 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION love ion and elliot < 1549991136 398122 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pours out drink for them. < 1549991138 910758 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :5¯29\8_9(11ツ6)13_27/5¯ < 1549991147 870746 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PART :#esoteric < 1549991937 965021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992115 403734 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992176 8984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549992295 563576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "contraction", "extension", and a second sort-of pair "compaction", "expansion" < 1549992315 72934 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even say "contractive" and "extensive" too if you want adjectives < 1549993187 527943 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549993411 448685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's "position, positive" and "negation, negative" for some reason < 1549993524 721299 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :stateful automata really do form the backbone of any given model of computation. stitching states together, you can yield any control flow construct you'd like. this differs from things like assembly, where the state structure is implicit and line/address/label-oriented. < 1549993775 40524 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should embrace automata-based programming. < 1549993858 669191 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inherently visual and textual, lends itself well to composition and algebraic manipulation of code, and the underlying concepts are simple and relatively commonplace. < 1549994509 777524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think it's worth putting very much effort in at all. When I wrote that without realizing the whole database situation. < 1549994591 540995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The reason I do it by hand is probably that I used to download IRC logs for a channel where they were pretty haphazard, sometimes collected from multiple sources etc., so there were many files with non-canonical names. That's not particularly relevant here. < 1549994655 156889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're sort of haphazard here too, in the sense that there are two or three different collections of irc logs that you may have to download < 1549994779 8090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolangs.org logs are an attempt to merge the existing collections. Though I should really look into redundancy about gaps since it started recording "natively". < 1549994818 412682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what do you have against binary options twh < 1549994839 180840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you mean like collect logs on multiple machines, to cover the time when one machine loses connection to the internet server? < 1549994853 437937 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to donate server time on imode.tech for that. < 1549994858 942647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even auto-connect to different halves of the irc network in case of netsplits :-) < 1549994891 80693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly right now I don't have a usable server of mine set up, one that's connected to the internet continuously. I should pay for one eventually. < 1549994899 225614 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs. < 1549994910 669213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. Not going to be on top of the priority list either, though. < 1549994912 294530 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode.tech is up 24/7. < 1549994964 187950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there has been more downtime for freenode reasons than for the current esolangs.org server reasons. < 1549994993 89463 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a droplet that's hosting some hobby projects, but it has a public IP and a short domain name. I'm not sure how you handle logs but I wouldn't be remiss at least being a forwarder for redundancy. < 1549995049 65263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but the servers where I ran stuff so far had more runtime for non-freenode reasons. and the ISP at home here is terrible, it cuts off for hours some nights. < 1549995074 791503 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have a ruby script sitting idle and scraping this channel from multiple parts of the network, dumping to disk and forwarding on to another server in batches if you guys want. < 1549995094 832216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: sorry, the multiple parts of the network was just a joke, don't take it seriously < 1549995102 61919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. :P < 1549995108 798063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplits are reeeeeal. < 1549995122 71184 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you can try to collect logs on a disk if you want, and manage the sharing later < 1549995164 609802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the way I handle logs isn't really set up for merging streams. Not that it couldn't be done, just I don't think I'll be attempting to do it in the very near future. < 1549995184 968320 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you store compressed logs? < 1549995242 310674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store length-delimited https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/log.proto messages (without the event_id field, it's implicit) in a "one file per day" scheme with past days Brotli-compressed. < 1549995245 333891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could set up a system where we have a series of buffers that hold incoming log information from multiple sites, and we do N-way merges based on line count and then store the deltas. < 1549995268 549351 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat! < 1549995342 560248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think merging multiple streams recorded from different freenode servers needs a little bit of heuristics, because there's no canonical order of messages. < 1549995360 863020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1549995362 244443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard < 1549995386 248874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was that really infamous netsplit when there was twenty minutes of lag between some servers or something < 1549995556 219632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could get it mostly correct. But I'd definitely archive all the original sequences losslessly, and only use the merged version for serving. Just so it's possible to backfill if things go wrong. Anyway, this is really not in scope right now. < 1549995594 301358 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea: multiple bots hosted on a single server, each DMing eachother and timing the response times. a single bot is designated as the primary scraper, and the primary scraper is based on response times. if the primary can't communicate to the other bots, a different bot with the smallest average response time to the others is selected as the primary scraper. < 1549995628 921057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the problem is that if they run on a single server, then they'll all cut off when that server loses net connection < 1549995634 47149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when that server goes down < 1549995650 438537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to be on different servers, ideally by very different internet service providers < 1549995651 628836 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, but that server is monitoring a single channel. < 1549995677 894360 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also in a datacenter under monitor. < 1549995696 337124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in that indefinite future when I host a proper server, I'll make irc logs of my own, and share the ones for publically logged channels < 1549995709 259136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that indefinite future is always years in the future no matter when you ask < 1549995717 244893 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do this right now. < 1549995721 241340 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks. < 1549995724 291610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: feel free < 1549995770 994199 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby makes this pretty easy. let me see what I can do. < 1549995786 63482 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549995793 529972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should do the stuff that doesn't require an always on server, just downloading stuff and processing < 1549995799 973674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and storing on my disk for later use < 1549996587 246778 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996597 259069 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996605 39124 :ibot2!~ibot2@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996611 860532 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996611 860603 :ibot2!~ibot2@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996612 212000 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1549996624 199196 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. that was a start. < 1549996664 457870 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all said hi to eachother and all died. < 1549996849 650674 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996850 93724 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549996883 973678 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder how far apart I should space communication between them. < 1549996981 897227 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have a producer/consumer process for logs: toss a local timestamp + the message to something like RabbitMQ and have something else pick it up. < 1549997009 150693 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549997117 40524 :ibot1!~ibot1@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1549997132 789007 :ibot0!~ibot0@c-98-247-66-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549997590 24048 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549997814 646380 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1549997830 301589 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Client Quit < 1549997902 459659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: #esoteric-blah is for testing bots, by the way. < 1549997906 148948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think. < 1549997911 282532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was some suffix, anyway. < 1549997919 263946 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry! I'll keep that in mind. < 1549998085 166153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's fine, it's just that testing can easily get out of hand. :) < 1549998087 475488 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998114 538202 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998166 811531 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998263 985341 :Bob-!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998275 704428 :zemhill______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 792578 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 889637 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998275 995104 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998276 488227 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998276 536433 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 185007 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 323199 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 399582 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549998277 681597 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1549998301 392925 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998307 75643 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998333 759205 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998335 672425 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1549998353 915942 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1549998635 176812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CubixThree 5* 10New user account > 1549998918 156447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59854&oldid=59848 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+280) 10/* Introductions */ < 1550000416 28845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #esoteric-blah < 1550000417 155488 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! < 1550001521 530662 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550001521 723123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550002925 708737 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1550002947 524156 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550002963 378556 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble > 1550004359 299531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59855&oldid=59853 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+230) 10 < 1550005380 250665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550005570 228608 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550007068 940543 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1550007068 940583 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550008458 990166 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1550010281 632649 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Glulx, the "ushiftr" instruction makes an unsigned shift right. The shift amount is treated as unsigned, and anything more than 32 will make the result to be zero (all bits are shifted out). So, to change 0 to 1 and all other numbers to 0, I used shifting right 1 by the input number. < 1550010469 34855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://twitter.com/lunasorcery/status/1095446373812658179 < 1550010471 227932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that tg < 1550010495 742830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is the best < 1550010517 295404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you should have a compiler warning on non-explicit constructors, unless they're explicitly non-explicit? < 1550010642 820327 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's terrible < 1550010651 852133 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is the best < 1550010687 620968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg = truly ghastly < 1550010714 517048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :grotesque? < 1550011177 40481 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum color { Red, Green, Blue }; void f(char* param); f(Red) < 1550011189 489090 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiles in C, maybe C++ too < 1550011200 558629 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Red is 0 is null < 1550011212 179352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: that actually depends on the version of C++ < 1550011229 419485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the version of C, I'm not sure which < 1550011239 287004 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so these days it will no longer compile < 1550011252 550503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they restricted the rules for what counts as a null pointer expression < 1550011269 425931 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1550011283 911152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mind you, that's the theory < 1550011287 66662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work in C, assuming no requirements beyond the standard ones. < 1550011296 360081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc actually accepted expressions that even the old rules said shouldn't be allowed < 1550011307 329964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has way too much implicit behavior < 1550011326 997982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An integer constant expression with the value 0 -- is called a /null pointer constant/." "An /integer constant expression/ shall have itneger type, and shall only have operands that are -- enumeration constants, --" < 1550011333 850682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, gcc used to allow { int x = 8; f(x-x); } because it figured that x-x had the value 0 < 1550011341 476985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the standard never accepted that, because it's not a constant expression < 1550011346 694587 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1550011349 811168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but enum constant values are integer constant expressions. < 1550011351 529064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old rule was that any integer-valued constant expression with the value 0 worked < 1550011353 825164 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the things that pisses me off is that the committee is so unwilling to make changes for fear of breaking existing code < 1550011363 539954 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, sometimes they break existing code anyway < 1550011374 34694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new rule basically only allows a simple integer literal, of any type, perhaps with parenthesis too, I'm not sure about the details < 1550011383 754323 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have personally had my code break because of a poorly thought out DR < 1550011390 692750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Then it rejects conforming code. < 1550011404 511759 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can actually detect the difference with overloading < 1550011407 67225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you're talking about C. < 1550011420 480277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with overloading in C++ that is < 1550011436 819544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, it used to accept non-conforming code < 1550011457 234052 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't it great that there are contexts where "return x;" is fine but "return (x);" is UB? < 1550011458 75361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x-x) is non-comforming because x-x is just a plain integer expression, so it can't be implicitly cast to a pointer (in C++) < 1550011473 710133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: WHAT? < 1550011476 404954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Sure, I was talking from the C perspective. < 1550011481 237076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my favorite "fuck you" in C++ < 1550011495 565011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is tg < 1550011501 859049 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it has to do with the rules for decltype(auto) < 1550011513 737222 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are different for an identifier vs. an expression < 1550011522 147208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what the heck < 1550011529 476418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1550011534 451231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :every programming language is terrible < 1550011539 963089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have their crazy quirks < 1550011562 927066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore they are literally all equal < 1550011586 784636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well write everything in whitespace < 1550011587 243976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, some of them are much worse < 1550011594 708416 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.llvm.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23812 < 1550011599 287689 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so mad about this < 1550011610 376868 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: when it's an expression, it tries to make a reference < 1550011641 470042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Looks like (again talking still only about C) GCC has no qualms about using an enum constant as a null pointer constant, but Clang has added a -Wnon-literal-null-conversion flag. < 1550011668 229266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which just says "expression which evaluates to zero treated as a null pointer constant".) < 1550011687 79766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also, I found out that there are some cases when glibc fscanf explicitly works slightly differently from what the standard allows, in how many bytes it consumes when it fails to read certain inputs as a number, and the glibc maintainers know that but claim it's a problem with the standard < 1550011700 716536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bug ticket about it < 1550011711 764552 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550011754 731815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem is C-style strings, anyway < 1550011763 121749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are scow < 1550011793 386493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that doesn't even seem to mention return < 1550011857 938527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/rKLxrZ < 1550011921 35682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ah, it's in a function with the return type given as decltype(auto) < 1550011929 707768 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550011959 484605 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this pathological example is given in _Effective Modern C++_ by Scott Meyers < 1550011964 152995 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that book is tg < 1550011986 70956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what? but isn't that book older than decltype(auto) as function return type? < 1550011993 548092 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contents are very good and also the bird on the cover is top notch < 1550012001 280981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird < 1550012003 212374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it covers C++14 < 1550012003 251745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bird < 1550012004 468441 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550012018 633584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm. I thought it was older. < 1550012031 122150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deduced function return type newer < 1550012032 528280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those > 1550012036 740110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Glutton14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59856 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+4373) 10Created page with "Glutton is an object-based stack-based language created by [[User:CubixThree|CubixThree]]. In it, you prepare dishes made with ingredients, similar to [[Chef]], however with o..." < 1550012056 93918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :often it presents the C++11 way, explains the drawbacks and then how C++14 improves it < 1550012079 243930 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 14 is more about fixing awkward stuff in 11, as opposed to a conceptual overhaul like 03 -> 11 < 1550012116 353968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what case is fscanf working differently? < 1550012214 786466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure of the exact example, but it's one of those cases when you need a bit of lookahead, like when with format "%g" you try to scan "3.00E-scow", or with format "%i" you try to scan "0xscow" < 1550012256 602145 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550012256 918786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, those are actually cases when the read of the number succeeds... I dunno < 1550012260 834132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something related to that < 1550012446 839033 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that C++14 has polymorphic lambdas < 1550012448 523827 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty fancy < 1550012500 956386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12701 I think this is it < 1550012531 720126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1550012537 497563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of fanciness is the reason i wasn't using c++ < 1550012666 808765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh man, i just indexed into "counts[256]" with a char which turned out to be signed < 1550012669 836066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :your favorite bug < 1550012683 683944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that one < 1550012687 2139 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you doing? < 1550012705 164705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to look for strings matching a particular pattern < 1550012709 528483 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550012712 663783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in c for some reason < 1550012747 823931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have avoided those problem by always using a & operator if a char value is used in that way, such as x&255 or some other number < 1550012779 523736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is avoiding the problem by thinking about the problem. < 1550012791 182609 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should be part of the C spec which specifies stronger guarantees on things where the only reason for crazy behavior is compatibility with ancient machines < 1550012794 838984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem was that I didn't think about it. If I had I'd've taken care of it. < 1550012814 490793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then compilers can support this as a language variant < 1550012839 787134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc at least warns on indexing w/ signed char < 1550012859 917421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you trying to write a program without thinking of the program? < 1550012862 330565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine didn't. < 1550012878 254905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should've used -Wall for this 20-line throwaway program. < 1550012885 445485 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wall always < 1550012890 234775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the program, just not of this particular edge case with char. < 1550012923 403869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Weffc++ < 1550012930 751328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i add -Weffc++ when compiling in c mode < 1550012942 832672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make it clear why i'm compiling in c mode < 1550012975 63740 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -Whatthe -fuck < 1550013002 822530 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -funroll-me-harder < 1550013040 735456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-wholesome < 1550013146 493462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I used to think the thing about C++ being an esolang was a joke, but now I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. < 1550013159 861359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the entire language but a pretty large part of it. < 1550013173 80302 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550013179 397948 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it is a joke < 1550013183 285463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because it's true < 1550013201 500694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a hot mess < 1550013215 695734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing fancy template code appeals to the same twisted part of your mind that writing esolang code appeals to < 1550013217 615036 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550013243 431310 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550013271 92718 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang skills have actual uses < 1550013290 850799 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have often described writing exploits as weaponized esoprogramming < 1550013292 272361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, rop is also an esolang, but that's a legitimate reason < 1550013294 664250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least sometimes < 1550013295 859262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1550013311 835900 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird machines < 1550013327 704936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're a non-eso language designer, requiring your users to esolang seems like a scow move. < 1550013345 699933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550013361 58614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well templates are the quintessential feature that grew far beyond its original purpose < 1550013401 461406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more specifically, SFINAE < 1550013414 565353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinok < 1550013427 525231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinmk < 1550013463 824071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "SFINAE" means? < 1550013475 140068 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Substitution Failure Is Not An Error" < 1550013506 864736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :substituion failure is naughty and exciting < 1550013508 811307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means, if C++ tries to instantiate a template function and there is some error (type mismatch, missing method etc) then it will go on to the next overload rather than aborting compilation < 1550013552 770738 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550013553 561961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was intended simply so that unrelated template functions of the same name would not interfere < 1550013564 881395 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out to add a lot of power to template metaprogramming < 1550013595 240175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a version of gcc where substitution failure deletes your source file < 1550013599 3791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll teach people < 1550013630 312491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example it makes type traits and conditional overloads possible < 1550013631 511557 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://shaharmike.com/cpp/sfinae/ < 1550013646 231877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the go people had the right idea < 1550013649 960971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just codegen everything < 1550013652 61973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm < 1550013721 929597 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this substitution failure is not error is make sense, if there is a next overload (otherwise all of the accumulated errors should be displayed, since presumably it is unable to continue in such a case, if there isn't any to continue) < 1550013725 804951 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there is so much complexity in C++ from the fact that references aren't first class :( < 1550013737 428131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah < 1550013739 698230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you think a language without lvalues makes sense < 1550013743 499333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you only have pointers < 1550013750 19357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo maybe < 1550013750 362369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1550013755 889691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the advantages < 1550013771 760013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvalues and pointers are almost the same thing but different < 1550013795 833176 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550013804 292398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sorts of complexity from that, which c++ tries to address with references? < 1550013818 406985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think BLISS does not use lvalues like C and BASIC, but rather it is the pointer, and to read it you must add the operator to read it. (Forth also needs explicit operators for read or write, although Forth is more flexible so you can make it possible to hide if you want to do.) < 1550013822 734885 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Templates are kinda fascinating. In that they were _designed_ for very simple use cases, but to make them fit in they managed to make them far more complex and general than is needed. < 1550013824 567517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in a language like c, there's a distinction between a value and a memory location that contains that value < 1550013835 865026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :c muddles it up a lot but it's there < 1550013849 54755 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep < 1550013867 378337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know, the "memory read" operation in c is the implicit coercion from lvalue to rvalue < 1550013870 544104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not * or whatever < 1550013906 573609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, BLISS does that. < 1550013909 898073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ALGOL 68. < 1550013910 137716 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that view in mind (and I don't think it's a bad one), what's * anyways? < 1550013913 755018 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A type conversion? < 1550013929 801514 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :converts a pointer rvalue to a lvalue, I suppose < 1550013931 425127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :* takes an rvalue-of-pointer-to-T to lvalue-of-T < 1550013949 309016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pointer is a location of a thing in memory. An lvalue is a thing that has a location in memory. < 1550013972 318791 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, it kinda is a type conversion. < 1550013977 862565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also http://slbkbs.org/ski-mercury.txt < 1550013981 984298 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though with an rvalue to lvalue conversion in there too. < 1550014015 88361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, given "struct A { int x, y; };", "e.y" has a different meaning depending on whether e is an lvalue or an rvalue. < 1550014029 843755 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinaeimk < 1550014032 523016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame the TGCEEC contest died out. < 1550014069 644679 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's funny people act as though C is a low-level language in some absolute sense, isn't it? < 1550014079 789337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfimkinae < 1550014091 178282 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or for that matter, that "low vs. high level" has any absolute meaning) < 1550014097 245173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The incomplete round had a one-shot entry (-fmax-errors=1) of <= 256 bytes of source that generated 1.5 gigabytes of error. < 1550014097 460996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a lower-level language than most languages people use? < 1550014111 847242 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but that's a relative statement. < 1550014141 937435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pft, with 256 bytes I want at least Ackermann levels of error. < 1550014203 717379 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A high-level assembler is higher level than raw machine code, yet lower than C. < 1550014229 689350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but "high-level" and "low-level" aren't really precise terms anyway. < 1550014259 370282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfinmkimk < 1550014286 331396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also different kind of assembly language for different computers (and VMs), and also different assemblers have different features for macros and so on. < 1550014315 574862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which assemblers do you like? < 1550014326 279312 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fair < 1550014354 886784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, do you prefer Intel or AT&T syntax? < 1550014371 959169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have used MMIXAL, and otherwise mainly assemblers I either wrote myself (e.g. the MIXPC assembler, and Glasm) or modified for my use (e.g. MagicKit) < 1550014397 529023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 syntax, obviously, hth < 1550014398 549315 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: got a link to that? I'm gonna be AFK but I'd love to see it. < 1550014412 892530 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Knowing zzo38, the answer is "neither" whenever you present two common choices. < 1550014464 55530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a single-use halting oracle, what would you ask it? < 1550014534 609593 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a way to use a single-use halting oracle to get a more general solution. < 1550014554 771146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was my first idea too < 1550014556 505112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: https://tgceec.tumblr.com/ was the site. < 1550014759 332166 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550015199 2506 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550015223 155833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have opinion of XYZABCDE.ZZT game and possibly the sequel (and possibly sequel of the sequel)? At the end of the first one the main character's wing is fixed, but the operetta house has been destroyed by Giant Who Hate Liberty Bell March. The sequel might not be ZZT; in that case, perhaps any magic diamonds you have had by the end of the first one, are now worthless < 1550015340 88368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I would recommend yasm if you want an assembler for x86 < 1550015371 78341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes'm < 1550015400 525126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not used modern x86 assembly language < 1550015428 524911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like the Mill? < 1550015452 567807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been unable to find much information about Mill last time I checked < 1550015487 604154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately most information is in videos. < 1550015574 487727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever seen an electrocardiograph machine that had a built-in CRT display? < 1550015587 436622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like MMIX < 1550015730 93005 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550015857 234631 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550015867 365685 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550016343 916446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot to log out hm < 1550016599 713275 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550016731 378639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considered just reading the backscroll but figured the logs are more convenient when this long < 1550017169 177651 :Zexxo!181c57b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.28.87.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550017540 59936 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550017837 593447 :Zexxo!181c57b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.28.87.181 NICK :Guest52555 < 1550017840 81966 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 259 seconds < 1550018944 64956 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550019520 475611 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550019552 708413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WII2D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59857&oldid=59772 5* 03Cortex 5* (+15) 10 < 1550019771 390934 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550020534 831929 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-198-108.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550022799 257387 :Guest52555!181c57b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.28.87.181 QUIT :Quit: Page closed > 1550023266 549657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59858&oldid=59855 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+47) 10Unsigned < 1550025781 320791 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550026028 258623 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550027397 224036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-183.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550029587 390540 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550030370 683664 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550030609 945854 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550030724 564018 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550030864 969409 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550031309 451695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Glulx, 0 is also a valid lvalue, meaning don't write the value. (Other numbers are not a valid lvalue though) < 1550032562 689144 :FoxyBoxes!~vivi@2601:548:4201:6b71::381f JOIN :#esoteric < 1550035240 722534 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.122.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550037101 328304 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550037353 263619 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550038042 156963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550039253 593220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oddly enough, Compose < 3 generates a ♥ BLACK HEART SUIT < 1550042041 247663 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550042551 314808 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550042803 258419 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550044245 871389 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alovmsucilpdgipm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550045563 433707 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550046883 415582 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550048042 865548 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550048137 388703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550048284 527544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1550048291 56252 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550048803 705434 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550049416 392172 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550050162 18938 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550050356 58570 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550051475 812514 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550058995 458656 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550059102 99891 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550059132 109918 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550063148 825701 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.122.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550067440 308354 :FoxyBoxes!~vivi@2601:548:4201:6b71::381f QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550071125 442042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550071151 694008 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.122.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550071166 904777 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.122.57 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550071267 303943 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550072557 69558 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550074787 217380 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkgflecjohbqffpr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550074810 651441 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1550075349 176944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59859&oldid=59786 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+51) 10/* E */ < 1550076041 83932 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550076293 168404 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550078027 423080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550078290 779939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/12/current_gps_epoch_ends/ come up here? < 1550078303 937179 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550078408 530649 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about 30 bits for "time in seconds from epoch" < 1550079134 534250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i don't why you'd need the week to find position, isn't it based on fractions of seconds in difference? < 1550079164 786108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the device use it to set an actual clock, that'd be a different matter. < 1550079174 396621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uses < 1550079198 156733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they probably do, since it's easy. < 1550079212 974742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, should not affect navigation. < 1550079268 409444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it'd think downloaded maps had wrong time stamps from the future. < 1550079284 998749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+see > 1550079546 741090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59860 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1257) 10Created page with "[[EZ]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. It's the easiest language in the world. It's also made for code golf...." > 1550079750 610591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59861&oldid=59860 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+57) 10/* Specifics */ < 1550079875 56661 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00c41e9742b104e7da.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1550080654 196005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59862&oldid=59861 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+606) 10/* Implementations */ > 1550080683 602686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59863&oldid=59862 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-23) 10/* Specifics */ > 1550080859 282512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59864&oldid=59863 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-17) 10/* Implementations */ > 1550080920 48627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59865&oldid=59864 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+24) 10 < 1550082082 92455 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550082388 84608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the BIOS and BASIC interpreters from old computers be released as open source? < 1550083057 832662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1550083567 285504 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550083957 957145 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550084969 639793 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkgflecjohbqffpr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550085748 210457 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what google calendar uses 32 bit datetimes < 1550085761 657324 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't set a reminder for 2060 < 1550085778 122366 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00c41e9742b104e7da.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550086595 600844 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1550086831 117641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can set an event for 2060. < 1550087974 919805 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1550088028 265054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550088161 955601 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550088897 55199 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdkobcpvktyuyjqq JOIN :#esoteric > 1550089889 947799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analog Synth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59866&oldid=58753 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+72) 10Interpreter, use strict sigmas for ixqus symbols where possible < 1550090581 750496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1550091427 754135 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550091494 240885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550091527 482622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190212.html < 1550091528 303744 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190212.html: b_jonas < 1550091705 307461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought an indoor-outdoor thermometer for home. Now if the wire doesn't break from it being led out a window, then I'll be able to tell the outdoor temperature without opening a window. < 1550091716 396387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It currently says 4°C outdoor. < 1550091762 620544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Just get a nearby airport and use @metar ) < 1550091769 50791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? metasepia < 1550091770 192703 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. < 1550091868 927293 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar YYZ < 1550091879 952926 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYYZ < 1550091881 421620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 132000Z 25026G33KT 5SM R23/4000VP6000FT/U BLSN SCT040 BKN110 BKN250 M04/M08 A2957 RMK CU3AC2CI1 SLP024 < 1550092012 261427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CZBB < 1550092012 585067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No result. < 1550092017 639185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, I can already look up the weather in the internet. It says 2°C, which matches, because it's 1 or 2 kelvin warmer in the city measured near the wall of a house than at the airport measured in the way meteorologists like to measure. < 1550092029 157435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they still not have METAR? < 1550092045 278140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYVR < 1550092045 536253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYVR 132100Z VRB02KT 15SM FEW008 FEW015 FEW070 01/M03 A2967 RMK CU1SC1AC1 SC TR AC TR SLP050 < 1550092078 731535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is they? < 1550092111 552703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LHBP < 1550092112 85453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHBP 132100Z 22006KT 8000 NSC 02/02 Q1033 NOSIG < 1550092117 896312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says 2°C too < 1550092135 342290 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :METAR encoding (and aviation weather in general) is the stupidest thing < 1550092148 428174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: why? < 1550092151 898575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's stupid in it? < 1550092163 588701 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :all designed back in the telex days to fit as much information as possible into as few characters as possible < 1550092169 82238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the varying units of measure? nobody could get the americans to use it in any other way < 1550092196 564253 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :winds aloft forecasts encode speeds above 99 by adding 50 to the heading section < 1550092199 455417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: eh no, it's not _that_ compressed, and at least this way it's somewhat parseable. my only big complaint is that it doesn't have a full date. < 1550092212 491219 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other crazy stuff like that < 1550092230 155031 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I appreciate it in a #esoteric sort of way :P < 1550092269 444285 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: oh, I didn't know they did that with winds < 1550092306 854902 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in winds/temps aloft forecasts < 1550092314 368287 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in METARs < 1550092316 653111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1550092351 137188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'd be able to test that, because winds with speed 100 knots or higher are very rare here < 1550092377 258876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :living in a basin with no strong winds and no strong earthquakes has some advantages < 1550092556 639666 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like they just add a digit for metars < 1550092567 902569 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :280100G117KT < 1550092611 481669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: um... how does that decode? < 1550092619 34503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :280 degrees heading, but then what? < 1550092635 695058 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 knots with gusts to 117 < 1550092665 432245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1550092754 593137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1550092754 828064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 132053Z 14017KT 8SM -RA BKN027 OVC032 14/12 A2955 RMK AO2 SLP007 P0005 60038 T01390117 58024 < 1550092811 588994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :metar isn't particularly good at either shortness or human-readability, but it's OK for the combination. < 1550092832 740216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I sometimes pretend to understand it but mostly I just look at the temperature. < 1550092878 993625 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KMSO < 1550092879 227664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KMSO 132118Z 33006KT 1 1/4SM -SN BKN018 OVC041 01/M03 A2944 RMK AO2 P0001 T00061028 < 1550092908 511468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm remarks < 1550092917 63294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550092929 647878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icao KMSO < 1550092930 583831 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missoula International Airport (MSO, KMSO) < 1550092962 719273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of airports, EGBB has a big "Hello world" sign above its main entrance < 1550092967 650641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGBB < 1550092967 912952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGBB 132050Z 14004KT CAVOK 04/03 Q1030 < 1550092969 721400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1550092970 805898 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1550092979 652524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e broke the cycle :'( < 1550092985 595506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1550092987 748540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 132100Z CCA 22016G22KT 15SM DRSN FEW040 SCT065 OVC080 M00/M05 A2950 RMK CF1SC3AC5 CF TR SLP993 \ ENVA 132120Z 09008KT 8000 BKN043 01/00 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 18009KT \ ESSB 132050Z 31007KT < 1550092987 800437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAVOK 05/M01 Q1019 \ KOAK 132053Z 14017KT 8SM -RA BKN027 OVC032 14/12 A2955 RMK AO2 SLP007 P0005 60038 T01390117 58024 \ PAMR 132053Z VRB05KT 10SM SCT041 BKN090 M07/M14 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP106 I3001 < 1550092987 839881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :T10671139 53015 < 1550092995 779945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that was a good idea. < 1550093031 3523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there's a surprising lack of weather in Birmingham at the moment < 1550093037 968011 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAVOK, nice < 1550093071 944129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wreak cavok < 1550093190 179473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when's the last time we had a proper botloop in here? < 1550093200 945599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several years ago, they used to happen pretty much all the time < 1550093212 739639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the bot operators got wise and started adding protections against them < 1550093230 955017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "bot loop" redundant hth < 1550093268 119193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the redundant part? not the "loop", because bots can do things that aren't loops, so it must be the "bot" < 1550093278 272070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem impossible that the loop could involve a human, though < 1550093289 229318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bad joke about ⊥ < 1550093345 928364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error "bot" < 1550093347 656887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: bot < 1550093363 209213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I've taken to using "nonterminates" as a verb, though it's a bit awkward. < 1550093365 323149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (error . ("loop" ++")) < 1550093366 891513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:27: error: < 1550093366 930950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end of input < 1550093371 230401 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (error . ("loop" ++)) < 1550093372 65841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something else I should say? < 1550093372 840707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception:... < 1550093381 357893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "diverges". < 1550093385 36822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t error < 1550093385 930334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> a < 1550093412 301373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the output of fix error end up in quotes? < 1550093416 23449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error "test" < 1550093417 874504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: test < 1550093428 999357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The '"' is printed because it's showing a string, before the error thunk is forced. < 1550093431 588502 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has structured bottoms. They probably come from all the sitting around (it's lazy). < 1550093443 279475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (error "test") : String < 1550093445 61523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1550093445 100992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Data constructor not in scope: String :: [a] < 1550093445 101034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1550093453 693987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (error "test") : [Char] < 1550093455 457744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1550093455 506216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Data constructor not in scope: Char < 1550093455 506260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1550093464 370128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (error "test") :: [Char] < 1550093465 974424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: test < 1550093468 319019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1550093487 151552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id :: [Char] < 1550093489 519717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: <> < 1550093525 331353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the output of «"*Exception: *Exception:» … confused me because I thought it was stringifying the exceptions somehow < 1550093545 450873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't, it's trying to print a string and then double-faulting repeatedly < 1550093555 422987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This confused me when I first saw it too. < 1550093556 907715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder why Haskell doesn't have protection against double faults < 1550093574 679559 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: String < 1550093575 782027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple faults should reboot the machine lambdabot is on < 1550093576 435504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1550093600 259548 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: () < 1550093601 961965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1550093610 239831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I need to use that idea next time I write a non-serious non-constrained esolang < 1550093631 332831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: Void < 1550093632 991054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1550093636 29876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is a p. serious esolang < 1550093671 780001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft had a serious competitive advantage for a whlie by being the first people to figure out that intentional triple-faults were useful as a way to get from protected mode back into real mode < 1550093680 96640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, triple faults are useful, they get you out of protected mode! < 1550093690 40187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... timing < 1550093728 757373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM's solution to that problem was pretty esoteric (it sent a command to the keyboard controller to get it to send a reboot input to the motherboard) < 1550093758 549984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way Windows used illegal instructions to switch to kernel mode back in the day. < 1550093765 295575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we still have an A20 gate? < 1550093768 868356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? a20 < 1550093770 101543 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a20? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550093819 49663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais532: yeah, lambdabot is careful, putting some prefix to its message contents often; I can't use jevalbot for a loop because I wrote it so that would be cheating; that leaves fungot and lambdabot, and I don't think it's possible to loop the two of them < 1550093819 154821 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: can anyone help me with < 1550093835 939188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/lambdabot is/HackEso is/ < 1550093839 225776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "fungot" < 1550093839 397217 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what is the business? how are modifications synchronized between agents? :) < 1550093840 921435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "fungot" < 1550093844 969933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1550093859 788982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's possible that some loops happen entirely in private messages < 1550093875 411742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me check if perlbot is willing to private message anyone these days < 1550093905 900409 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh does lambdabot have to ignore fungot as well... < 1550093906 77454 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you could also sell them as " plain svg" instead of forty-two. < 1550093921 249213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, I think buubot3 doesn't have that anymore < 1550093927 578162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that used to be in buubot1 or buubot2 or something < 1550093935 335681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the message uses NOTICE then that can also avoid it presumably < 1550093969 910020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: AFAIUI mirc destroyed NOTICE. < 1550093987 814983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by deciding to produce popups for them. < 1550094015 351718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean in 80286? < 1550094030 484622 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu NOTICE #esoteric :even in irssi notices to channels tend to look ugly. < 1550094044 549568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I looked it up; apparently the A20 gate was part of the motherboard until the 486, at which point it became part of the processor controlled via a processor pin; then with Nehalem, it was changed to a hardware feature that was controlled over a bus rather than via a pin; then with Haswell it was removed entirely < 1550094051 977477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, that was for 80286 < 1550094060 662878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps DOSbox has an ability to emulate it in software < 1550094091 73707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulating the A20 gate with paging sounds trivial. < 1550094132 880322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not your fault that your users are using a IRC client that does not work properly. < 1550094141 571219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks. I just had not checked on the fate of the A20 gate in the past 5 or so years. < 1550094155 526921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it is, and back before x86_64, all the programs that emulated real mode programs with the cpu's v86 feature did use paging that way < 1550094160 911335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: even things that aren't your fault have to be worked around sometimes :-( < 1550094174 862838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 took away that ability because the speed of emulating real mode no longer matters < 1550094185 863373 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: unfortunately, suffering for the mistakes of others is the norm rather than the exception. < 1550094208 278530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just emulate DOS all in software because all the remaining real mode DOS games run fast enough that way, every DOS game that needs more performance switches to protected mode anyway < 1550094277 963535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people (including myself) still write real mode DOS programs, although often it is designed so that it can work on DOSBOX anyways (except 8088MPH) < 1550094287 813705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least bots tend to be pretty consistent in recognizing prefixes or invocations only at the very start of the line, so the workaround of putting a space or something at the start of your message to escape the potential invocation seem to be a good alternative < 1550094294 168282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like HackEgo does < 1550094332 202819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, you can do it, it's just that you don't mind if the emulation is slowed down a bit, because if you wanted a high performance program, you wouldn't use real mode anyway < 1550094361 703539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fungot recognises its name anywhere < 1550094361 952238 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i looked at were inadequate. the implementation of the fingerprint handling, all of which have emacs, which i think should appear real soon now < 1550094368 896469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1550094377 904344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's not obvious that real mode has bad performance < 1550094381 19739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I wondered if it could be looped with a bot < 1550094393 824655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that generally answers fungot's reply < 1550094394 8744 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 11932: holy cow. < 1550094396 245740 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like jevalbot < 1550094398 318416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in unreal mode (which is where you switch to protected mode to change the memory architecture from segmented to flat, then switch back) < 1550094475 553186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso doesn't respond to its name, and I don't think lambdabot does either < 1550094487 158791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: run 3+5 < 1550094492 422878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @run 3+6 < 1550094494 165769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1550094498 446651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that way < 1550094507 377769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it needs the at sign, which you won't get often from fungot < 1550094507 649536 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, but you should at least have a chunk of memory and gc interfered with the benchmarks < 1550094511 933216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both are limited to one line of answer < 1550094537 200282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a canonical way to generate some number of characters uniformly from an alphabet given a seed (like the output of a hash function)? < 1550094560 754317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run var "`echo BBdNkmBhaMAA" < 1550094562 375292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : `echo BBdNkmBhaMAA < 1550094568 543700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, lambdabot puts a space < 1550094576 438385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only fungot will listen to it < 1550094576 635678 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i just hit the damn thing to clear the record for keeping up a stream of the elements < 1550094624 574481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (0AkSRBa6C9j2) < 1550094643 984644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still possible to loop two lambdabots together as far as I know. < 1550094654 811518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^underload (0QYpVNOItPmd) < 1550094678 585319 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you ask my learned and honorable friend to evaluate underload? < 1550094696 70925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably did it correctly, that progroduces no output though < 1550094704 772094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (0AkSRBa6C9j2)S < 1550094704 811604 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0AkSRBa6C9j2 < 1550094708 317739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : @run uAKZqUpmXqRl < 1550094710 798741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right! < 1550094711 770494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program produces < 1550094728 866458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (`echo MkUxrfqr-Kto)S < 1550094728 949069 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo MkUxrfqr-Kto < 1550094729 666507 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MkUxrfqr-Kto < 1550094729 724943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1550094729 854360 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: write a mode for that in the forked side never returns? < 1550094731 19669 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1550094738 517987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550094760 336991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094760 377336 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094773 976799 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094774 16332 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094788 139127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094788 178776 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094788 913340 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1550094797 417990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot doesn't listen to hackeso, though < 1550094797 825064 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the semantics of a loop return expression are not quite right, since ( iirc), 1.5 ( fnord) < 1550094802 390171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the loop won't continue < 1550094811 193794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (`echo ^ul (VFmvbAmpx0T0)S)S < 1550094811 233543 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ^ul (VFmvbAmpx0T0)S < 1550094811 963815 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (VFmvbAmpx0T0)S < 1550094814 289090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550094820 32638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's a surprisingly relevant comment it just made < 1550094820 960950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably because HackEso puts a prefix < 1550094827 799555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ul P59gDSMW0n6Y < 1550094850 38665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my honorable and learned friend, correctly, doesn't listen when there's a prefix before the hat < 1550094876 107195 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the shortest way to implement the function (x&&y?1:0) in Glulx? < 1550094890 127073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Glulx is < 1550094918 415266 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/glulx-spec.html < 1550094974 961944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run var "^ul (89U+Z6Ma7Mvi)" < 1550094976 634745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ul (89U+Z6Ma7Mvi) < 1550094988 767059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is there any restriction on how large a and b can be? < 1550095006 624639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other bot we have that we could loop then? < 1550095013 271652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're limited to 16 bits, it's probably mul followed by jz < 1550095024 627791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Up to 32-bits, signed. < 1550095030 591906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they could use 32 bits, I can't see a shorter way than using two jumps < 1550095054 959199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? prefixes < 1550095056 47001 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . < 1550095105 789142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that (x?0:1) is implemented using "ushiftr 1,x,$" (due to how Glulx bit shifts work, this will always work) < 1550095126 613088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is still in there? hmm < 1550095154 493634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thutubot < 1550095155 583824 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550095157 277748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? metasepia < 1550095158 382363 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. < 1550095209 5364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550095254 666944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fortunately the function (x&&y?1:0) is rarely needed, because it can usually be optimized out when converting from OASYS.) < 1550095256 932102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot had a bug that caused it to repeat everything that lambdabot said < 1550095265 725553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul: (FJrQubL0MUgI)S < 1550095266 547578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we stopped taking it into this channel when lambdabot got widely used here < 1550095287 9263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul-: (vt2cuUBtOmLi)S < 1550095307 13221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you getting those random strings from? they don't look like keyboard mashing < 1550095328 482809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: random generator, base64 but with the two extra characters being + and - < 1550095390 124522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 27 seconds. < 1550095397 156146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` openssl rand -base64 10 | perl -ne 'y,/,-,;/(.{12})/ and print$1' # this basically, but I pipe it to xclip < 1550095398 66513 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7oLGxIulnXcU < 1550095437 813864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does lambdabot listen to? prefix at or question mark or ":t" right? < 1550095439 680462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foo < 1550095440 639761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: < 1550095440 683077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Variable not in scope: foo < 1550095440 722494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable) < 1550095452 67592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: :t 2 < 1550095465 266959 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @run 2 < 1550095466 443254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Monad < 1550095466 953025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1550095467 276356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* -> *) -> Constraint < 1550095476 72501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think it's @ or ? or : or > < 1550095490 102620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all strings starting with those are valid commands < 1550095500 150971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it accepts its name before that < 1550095505 736366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it much easier < 1550095514 113156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could perhaps make other bots say its name < 1550095517 584224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or backwards < 1550095523 459326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550095863 404997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if I were to use jevalbot, which I shouldn't, I don't think something like [ 10$,:'fungot' would loop < 1550095863 555556 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why would that be irrelavent here it is with undefined order. < 1550095919 231644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ^ul (vhcfvGaClerQ)S < 1550095919 407756 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: neither one do i learn lambda calculus? i think its hansen though, i don't < 1550095949 839047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my honorable and learned friend won't recognize a hat command with its name before it < 1550095960 300045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, I've been thinking of reclaiming the ! prefix for esowiki (and maybe renaming it to "esolangs") if I stick the BF Joust commands on it, because conventionally those have started with !. Probably not exclusively, but at least !bfjoust and !bftest (provisional name) and *potentially* !help. Because it isn't likely EgoBot is going to come back, and that thing has somewhat of a semi-official status. < 1550095986 802642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure < 1550095997 844285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fungot` still has a tick. < 1550095998 20752 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fnord you're in israel though). :) i second jensa's question, though. i can't currently spout something like... < 1550096006 754300 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 NICK :fungot < 1550096013 647395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: would those control zemhill or egojoust? < 1550096022 250708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ^ul (gbnc-HivUrYQ)S < 1550096022 609315 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ' wuss' is pretty weird :) < 1550096026 392843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then < 1550096031 762415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he won't work with the prefix < 1550096035 577060 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1550096040 811010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he won't run the underload command < 1550096057 382160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @help run < 1550096057 425225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :run . You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts! < 1550096074 149436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bf joust is mostly dead nowadays, I think it's finally gotten close to solved (I've been wrong about this in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong this time) < 1550096079 670124 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple faults are out, CATERR# is in < 1550096113 951115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They'd control something I'd put under (probably) https://esolangs.org/bfjoust or https://bfjoust.esolangs.org/ that would get all of the state and history from zemhill (which I would retire). < 1550096173 422895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why don't you just call it zemhill then? < 1550096173 504874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1550096173 544844 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. < 1550096198 366919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's fine if it's dead, less pressure for me to finish the migration. I'd just sort of like to stop running "zemhill"; not that it has any maintenance needs to speak of, just for general principles. < 1550096198 855151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does someone else has that name? < 1550096230 704135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just called zemhill because it was hosted in a zem.fi URL, if I migrate it to be "officially" under esolangs.org the name no longer fits so much. < 1550096254 585512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1550096266 171148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if people feel it should still be called zemhill, that's fine. I can retain the zjoust/ztest commands too. Don't really have any preference one way or another. < 1550096287 758815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also zemhill collects underscores the same way others collect... uh, some collectable thing. < 1550096310 740279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemons? < 1550096327 421991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. < 1550096348 254606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering how you IV-optimise underscores for competitive battling < 1550096358 465843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although then it shouldn't have more than six in its nick, it would have to store them in that computer terminal thingy < 1550096359 55019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's using the "Cinch" Ruby IRC bot framework, I'm blaming that for the nick behaviour.) < 1550096607 610339 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdkobcpvktyuyjqq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550096742 347883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1550096754 39268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot and perlbot could probably be looped in private message < 1550096786 955016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because perlbot prints anything in private message, and also accepts commands with a preceding space < 1550096867 78067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to *start* such a bot loop < 1550096898 560074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to do it when one of the bots are disconnected, predicting when it will reconnect, taking its nick temporarily, I think < 1550096976 123037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be easier if we found a channel they share < 1550097080 101317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot plus geordi might be doable too. do we know a channel those too share? < 1550097118 486555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1550097124 971169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work, geordi cares about the spaces < 1550097182 85361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550097242 471651 :trn!~trn@prone.ws QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550097254 425977 :trn!~trn@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1550097772 717778 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550098027 724301 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0039f7a36a01121019.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550099931 379283 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-35.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550101710 706016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you like how the mill has two instruction pointers, one going forward and one going backward < 1550101721 878376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they divide the instruction stream into two parts and jump into the middle < 1550102248 693677 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550102328 529320 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550102391 574691 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550103055 251891 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550104952 980397 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550105057 671419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550105951 598054 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550106724 184623 :ashirase_!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1550106846 517977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1550106915 487333 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I didn't know about that so no, I didn't like it, but maybe I do now? < 1550109217 632018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550109276 500363 :Vilivikhorith!~vivi@2601:548:4201:6b71::381f JOIN :#esoteric < 1550109909 91288 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550111091 25425 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0039f7a36a01121019.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1550111208 12258 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550112287 238428 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550112386 939049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.161.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550112712 375427 :moonythedwarf!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1550112715 960492 :moonythedwarf!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode Ｎ < 1550112716 747015 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+FF2E FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N] > 1550113397 781353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59867&oldid=59847 5* 03A 5* (-1292) 10Blanked the page > 1550113421 709405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59868&oldid=59858 5* 03A 5* (-668) 10Blanked the page > 1550113601 690264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59869&oldid=59867 5* 03A 5* (+1292) 10I can use it as an example. > 1550113684 529620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59870&oldid=59869 5* 03A 5* (-951) 10Aha. > 1550113713 249859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59871&oldid=59868 5* 03A 5* (+668) 10Revert the edits > 1550113763 390590 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59872&oldid=59871 5* 03A 5* (+94) 10/* Impossible */ < 1550113771 754745 :moonythedwarf!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550113815 916657 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: switching to PuTTY so I can see more Unicode characters < 1550113821 838426 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit me w/ some emoji < 1550113884 276071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :💛 > 1550113981 737535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59873&oldid=59870 5* 03A 5* (+765) 10 > 1550114061 281213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59874&oldid=59873 5* 03A 5* (-37) 10 < 1550114187 474917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :😻 > 1550114219 676048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59875&oldid=59872 5* 03A 5* (-762) 10Blanked the page < 1550114236 178488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🥰 < 1550114258 113489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: got any fresh emoji from the latest unicode release < 1550115933 410766 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550116187 412649 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550118604 995668 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550118856 825863 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550119126 724348 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550121570 876067 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550121768 963386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program to compile OASYS into Glulx, although there may be a few bugs, and some further optimizations may be possible. How should it be done optimizing a branch based on a AND or OR condition? In OASYS, a AND and OR conditions are not short circuit, and also it is necessary to ensure the stack effect is correct. However, unlike OASYS, in Glulx it is OK to leave junk on the stack when a function returns; it will be discarded automatically < 1550122121 252307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In OASYS it is not allowed to leave junk on the stack when returning from a function.) < 1550122126 278707 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550122378 296218 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550122492 915488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: 🤯 < 1550122503 595027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only found out what that thing is recently. < 1550125340 67756 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550125367 86012 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550125596 776069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550125618 88210 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550126105 916021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550126749 738900 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550126952 100144 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550127887 306956 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550128052 177948 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1550128948 772139 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550129222 662209 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550129268 322320 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550129520 708828 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1550131253 144861 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550132345 57402 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00319e5fc532e6591f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550132625 155062 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1550133231 125254 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550133409 265145 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550133447 714786 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550133607 289029 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550134015 54539 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001576eca53f76809d.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550134220 90936 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00319e5fc532e6591f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 257 seconds < 1550134954 733821 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e1e9e6d4020e33d9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550135186 122785 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001576eca53f76809d.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550135506 705097 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550136666 56198 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00fd29718c05fb8ff3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550136739 268375 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjvmrzxacjwszfyh JOIN :#esoteric < 1550136843 719150 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e1e9e6d4020e33d9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550137530 69411 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d824c1b20eef061e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550137716 63423 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00fd29718c05fb8ff3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 257 seconds < 1550138652 462872 :ashirase_!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550138996 67798 :ashirase!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1550142218 732529 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00adaa1bc76997a1f3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550142408 59800 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d824c1b20eef061e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550144407 726933 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00017fe8e2cbd736ee.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550144565 714952 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00adaa1bc76997a1f3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550145119 418488 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjvmrzxacjwszfyh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550145465 681552 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550145657 338270 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550146068 763054 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00017fe8e2cbd736ee.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550146562 983413 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009cea4dfd500d3dca.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550147725 41274 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550148379 638885 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009cea4dfd500d3dca.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550149226 101454 :ashirase!~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550149532 73163 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e48392ceaf5edf77.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550151692 215319 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpaagrlfbftbxrpp JOIN :#esoteric < 1550153741 713940 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00248b285ab101f3d4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550153954 75039 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e48392ceaf5edf77.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550154503 121845 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a stupid way to get data out of a multithreaded program < 1550154527 300779 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the other threads output anything above \177 in practice < 1550154715 651393 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, void eputsup(char*s){while(*s){*s+=0200;fputc(*s,stderr);s++;}} < 1550154858 442931 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can use tr to filter out your output and fix it < 1550155114 313233 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at least multithreading can't result in mixing individual bits of output between threads < 1550155224 132442 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oron: < 1550155242 761665 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: couldn't you just write to a separate output file instead? < 1550155903 747984 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550156027 633407 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? biweekly/the < 1550156028 851166 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :biweekly/The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly". < 1550156046 169529 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with this wisdom entry? < 1550156096 67099 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{desc}\n" wisdom/biweekly/the # ah < 1550156097 202067 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : learn biweekly/The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly". < 1550156115 722098 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00248b285ab101f3d4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550156148 714607 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550156335 637305 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is that some kind of deliberate joke, or is that an accidental use of learn instead of slashlearn? < 1550156394 626613 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550156418 335108 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550156715 951616 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C0AA0080CE1703774F086B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1550156763 166536 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that looks like an accident < 1550156920 176138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what Taneb said < 1550156938 131634 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, let's fix it < 1550156946 566908 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget biweekly/the < 1550156948 438033 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1550156965 277004 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn biweekly//The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly". < 1550156967 529388 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'biweekly': The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly". < 1550156971 521528 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? biweekly < 1550156972 664292 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly". < 1550156976 309161 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? biweekly/the < 1550156977 306272 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :biweekly/the? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550156986 945647 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have to admit < 1550157004 922047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learning is hard < 1550157007 563792 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the horribly complicated extra code in forget that does the rmdir wasn't _entirely_ a waste < 1550157011 933139 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had to fix that once) < 1550157117 16888 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bracket < 1550157118 263446 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bracket? ¯\[°_o]/¯ < 1550157180 305875 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kanada < 1550157181 763722 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug < 1550157198 515487 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, a typo. < 1550157233 317553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd kanada//s/nut/nurt/ < 1550157236 410939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanada//Your bankers' vain plazas never nurtured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug < 1550157550 345963 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @messages-loud < 1550157551 402375 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold < 1550158197 42329 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tio < 1550158198 241129 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1550158204 172280 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rules of wisdom < 1550158207 200941 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation < 1550158233 518723 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg -T "{rev}:{date|shortdate}:{desc}\n" rules of wisdom < 1550158234 808998 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg: option -T not recognized \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff diff repository (or selected files) \ export dump the header and diffs for one or more changesets \ f < 1550158245 813190 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev}:{date|shortdate}:{desc}\n" "wisdom/rules of wisdom" < 1550158246 959430 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11268:2017-12-13: slwd rules of wisdom//s/should/they &/ \ 10991:2017-06-02: perl -e {$f="wisdom/rules of wisdom";open$i,"<",$f or die;local$/;$s=<$i>;$s=~s/with no space at the end/and end in a newline with no space before that/ or die;$s=~s/\\n\\z// or die;print$s;open$o,">",$f;print$o $s or die;} \ 10982:2017-06-02: undo 10978 \ 10977:2017-05-31: slwd rules of wisdom//s,\',\xe2\x80\x98, \ 10975:2017-05-31: slw < 1550158264 265038 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev}:{date|shortdate}:{desc}\n" "wisdom/tio" < 1550158265 606685 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11706:2019-02-02: learn TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1550158315 308770 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amazed TIO has Fueue, and uses my interpreter for it to boot < 1550158325 473197 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd actually lost the source for that < 1550158487 26379 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a bancstar interpreter? < 1550158507 480248 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the lack of the period essential for the homor of wisdom/tio ? < 1550158637 323680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: FWIW, you might consider the "standard" commands over raw hg, for two more or less reasonable reasons: they escape the nicknames to avoid extra pings, and they have a built-in blacklist for mass reverts (though that doesn't apply to your example). < 1550158642 271313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg rules of wisdom < 1550158644 426082 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11268:2017-12-13 slwd rules of wisdom//s/should/they &/ \ 10991:2017-06-02 perl -e {$f="wisdom/rules of wisdom";open$i,"<",$f or die;local$/;$s=<$i>;$s=~s/with no space at the end/and end in a newline with no space before that/ or die;$s=~s/\\n\\z// or die;print$s;open$o,">",$f;print$o $s or die;} \ 10982:2017-06-02 undo 10978 \ 10978:2017-06-02 whoops \ 10977:2017-05-31 slwd rules of wisdom//s,\', < 1550158690 837387 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when I want to ask why an entry is written the way it is, then pinging the user who wrote it is the Right Thing < 1550158713 726822 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking "wisdom/rules of wisdom" itself was just stupid < 1550158803 163326 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinging all the users involved in its entire history may not be the Right Thing, especially if some of them are just people reverting mass breakages. < 1550158848 281215 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizze: sure, though in some of these cases I've ran commands in private message first < 1550158878 727227 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I should probably show just one revision, with -r 999 explicitly < 1550158930 290956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's some sort of more hg-y way to flag revisions to hide, compared to /hackenv/share/scowrevs. < 1550158952 170168 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want them hidden < 1550158956 82152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the evolve extension has obsolescence marking, but that's for a very different use case. < 1550158975 129564 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you could rewrite history, creating a new branch without those revisions perhaps < 1550158992 765480 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with all the file history and descriptions copied over < 1550159008 458213 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :git has commands to help with that < 1550159011 910797 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably hg too < 1550159013 688446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's that. Not sure how that would play with people who've cloned the repository though. < 1550159031 810616 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to ask those people I guess < 1550159182 545476 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the spam though < 1550159241 223477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not a big enough problem to worry too much about it. But it might be a reasonable default behavior to have some way to mark specific revisions as "cleanup" and not show them in file history except when a flag is given. < 1550159277 547322 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, those revisions never really bothered me < 1550159289 675387 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... the cold never bothered me anyway < 1550159291 218121 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cold < 1550159292 349756 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550159296 635843 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bothered < 1550159297 886008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bothered? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550159303 951431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also useful for repo-wide mass changes like whitespace/formatting fixes, which otherwise break 'blame' completely. < 1550159311 864908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not so much in the HackEso context. < 1550159380 432287 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but this isn't like the repositories I've seen in my job, with large C++ source files that sometimes have crlf and sometimes lf, sometimes spaces and sometimes tabs, and sometimes someone runs an automatic code reformatter which breaks the existing good formatting and adds bad formatting < 1550159479 504849 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb JOIN :#esoteric < 1550159615 132896 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wonder if it's canonically called "annotate" instead of "blame" (still available as an alias) in hg just to promote positive rather than negative feelings. < 1550159655 627165 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a triple alias: blame is the negative, annotate is the neutral, and praise is the positive < 1550159697 275111 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.ref.svn.c.blame.html < 1550159735 869124 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official help also says "blame (praise, annotate, ann): Show when each line of a file was last (or next) changed" < 1550159821 811450 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems "annotate" is the canon name for cvs < 1550159830 524424 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't checked the histories for how old each of these names are < 1550159877 581552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "praise" in Mercurial. < 1550159895 480843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, "git annotate" and "git blame" have different output formats. < 1550159943 992780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only difference between this command [git-annotate] and git-blame(1) is that they use slightly different output formats, and this command exists only for backward compatibility to support existing scripts, and provide a more familiar command name for people coming from other SCM systems." < 1550159965 120183 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I could output it to a different file but that requires some thought and wisdom < 1550160054 708595 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not "git whowrote" < 1550160072 266168 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or who-wrote < 1550160077 88023 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpaagrlfbftbxrpp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550160121 857316 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in git who-wrote ThisClass.cpp -lines 60-83 < 1550160167 225115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :git whodunit. < 1550160205 60634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's like git blame, except for MURDER.) < 1550160238 817740 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's -L not --lines < 1550160448 55393 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there should be a way to show the last TWO people to edit a line < 1550160500 430462 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sometimes the last person was just a poopyhead with an auto-indenting macro < 1550160943 785213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"git whodunit" might be some sort of "show recently deleted code blocks" view, since those don't show up in blame/annotate. < 1550161027 624106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: What if you need 3 history entries? (I tend to jump backward in time with git annotate -- ^) < 1550161039 966898 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is picked from a previous annotation < 1550161121 507736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the -- is there because otherwise git checks whether the file exists in the working directory... which it may not if the file has been moved or renamed) < 1550161310 259164 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550162022 53699 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzyehfhxwwiagayi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550162049 238001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550162073 63624 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f101359d5c0a759c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550162670 561719 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard brainlet https://mobile.twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1096074205731401728 < 1550162869 826699 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550163049 699646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Now everyone will be surprised about biweekly because it doesn't read like a b_jonasdom. < 1550163086 222042 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, true < 1550163092 580369 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add a comment there] < 1550163592 131189 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: who added kanada < 1550163596 409776 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wondering if it was me < 1550163675 801139 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{desc}\n" -r 4467 # dunno < 1550163676 927719 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf "Your bankers\' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug" > wisdom/kanada < 1550163696 42675 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550163698 506736 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1550163716 683496 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I remembered the fancy hacke[gs]o things < 1550163723 454445 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've lived a thousand years... < 1550164392 908423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/wiseguys//hlnp -T '{desc}\n' wisdom | cut -d' ' -f1 | sort | uniq -c | sed -e 's/^ *//' | sort -nr | head -n ${1:-10} < 1550164394 535508 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wiseguys < 1550164396 636078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wiseguys < 1550164398 825962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1683 \ 678 \ 300 \ 280 \ 223 \ 158 \ 142 \ 126 \ 98 \ 72 < 1550164414 640852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the life of me I couldn't figure out a gender-neutral equivalent of "wiseguys". Sorry.) < 1550164563 375964 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1550164838 516573 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad they aren't performing anymore < 1550165927 395718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg kanada < 1550165929 60261 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11732:2019-02-14 slwd kanada//s/nut/nurt/ \ 10538:2017-03-28 ` printf "\\n" >>wisdom/kanada \ 4467:2014-02-19 printf "Your bankers\' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug" > wisdom/kanada < 1550166868 676756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wiseasses :P (wisepeople?) < 1550166978 117939 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiseacres, as well < 1550167015 6962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also homo sapiens ;-) < 1550167038 651799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but what's the proper plural of that?) < 1550167079 39903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas overtook boily < 1550167085 563827 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb PRIVMSG #esoteric :homines sapientes < 1550167116 450448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you include his wob version) < 1550167182 246562 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f101359d5c0a759c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550167390 334752 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KSFO < 1550167391 606297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSFO 141756Z 23011G17KT 3SM -RA SCT019 BKN029 OVC050 12/08 A2951 RMK AO2 SLP991 P0018 60024 T01220083 10167 20111 51024 < 1550168612 632032 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550169242 500993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://weatherishappening.com/ < 1550169271 71353 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550169331 769534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTV collaborators have been complaining about the weather lately. < 1550169341 754126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While over here it's been unseasonably nice. < 1550169344 388949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1550169344 634451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 141820Z AUTO 14007KT 9999 NCD 09/04 Q1030 NOSIG < 1550169596 64085 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a002c70c125df89a1ec.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1550169675 648829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59876&oldid=59865 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-15) 10/* Specifics */ > 1550169706 957065 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59877&oldid=59876 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+6) 10/* Implementations */ > 1550169792 273541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59878&oldid=58975 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-72) 10/* Strengths */ < 1550169803 922806 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzyehfhxwwiagayi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550170839 527135 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550171069 505752 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a002c70c125df89a1ec.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1550171072 62724 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550171517 778933 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:3177:936a:acf2:68fd JOIN :#esoteric < 1550171616 704919 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550171959 108648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1550171961 307697 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:translater//A translater is one who transes a long time after the fact. \ isomorphism//Isomorphism is isomorphic to Phantom_Hoover up to isomorphism. \ t̵ͦiͭme͡//t̵ͦiͭme͡ S͖̀l̘̿͟o̯ͥwl̀͠y̮ ̥g̅eṱ̉҉ţi͊͡n̅ğ̨̺ ͫw͖ͭor͡s̯ęͣ \ alumni//Alumni is a compromise spelling suggested to solve the aluminum vs aluminium debate that never really caught on, except in a few big colleges. \ esowiki//Esowiki is our resident < 1550171964 20239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1550171964 712499 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:issue tracker. < 1550171988 645080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg translater < 1550171990 210284 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5826:2015-07-11 learn A translater is one who transes a long time after the fact. < 1550172345 376803 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550172503 287415 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550172644 65263 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:3177:936a:acf2:68fd QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1550172678 306895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wee there's a wob_wisdom that I like. < 1550172723 113663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the one you wrote? < 1550172771 791468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the alumni one. < 1550172806 568609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg alumni < 1550172808 251673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11181:2017-09-02 learn Alumni is a compromise spelling suggested to solve the aluminum vs aluminium debate that never really caught on, except in a few big colleges. < 1550172813 346092 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biweekly one is probably only good twice per month. < 1550172825 896218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or per week. Who knows. < 1550172880 796960 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550174090 722187 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550174304 976485 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something in this channel has fucked my terminal bad < 1550174353 938820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrap windows hth < 1550174364 810380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? t̵ͦiͭme͡ < 1550174365 947458 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :t̵ͦiͭme͡ S͖̀l̘̿͟o̯ͥwl̀͠y̮ ̥g̅eṱ̉҉ţi͊͡n̅ğ̨̺ ͫw͖ͭor͡s̯ęͣ < 1550174370 655480 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's this :P < 1550174377 539631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg time < 1550174379 308724 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550174388 242957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg t̵ͦiͭme͡ < 1550174389 810718 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3194:2013-06-20 learn t\xcd\xa6\xcc\xb5i\xcd\xadme\xcd\xa1 S\xcd\x96\xcd\x80l\xcc\xbf\xcc\x98\xcd\x9fo\xcd\xa5\xcc\xafwl\xcc\x80\xcd\xa0y\xcc\xae \xcc\xa5g\xcc\x85et\xcc\x89\xcc\xad\xd2\x89t\xcc\xa7i\xcd\x8a\xcd\xa1n\xcc\x85g\xcc\x86\xcc\xba\xcc\xa8 \xcd\xabw\xcd\xad\xcd\x96or\xcd\xa1s\xcc\xafe\xcd\xa3\xcc\xa8 < 1550174400 353975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1550174404 878859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag | grep zalgo < 1550174409 54437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1550174410 590254 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550174413 313112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep zalgo < 1550174416 787835 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9087:2016-09-26 ` le/rn brilliant/"`echo \'BRILLIANT is like the BEST word in the universe and it will change your life FOREVER!\' | zalgo | rainwords`" \ 9086:2016-09-26 ` le/rn brilliant/"`echo \'BRILLIANT is like the BEST word in the universe and it will change your life FOREVER!\' | rainwords | zalgo`" \ 8687:2016-07-03 sled bin/zalgo//1c#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ 3269:2013-07-03 gccrun F < 1550174427 57744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brilliant < 1550174428 119426 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :04B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ 07̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ 08̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ 09͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ 02͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ 06̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ 13͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ 04̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ 07̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ 08͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ 09̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ 02̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ 06̺͌c̑͡h̽̀âͮn̩̈́g̫ͣe͉͒ 13ͦ̓y̙͕o̔͒u̷ͬr͂͐ 04̓͝l͙͐ȉ͕f̹́ẹ̲ 07̤̹F̌ͅÒ͗R͚̼Ẽ̠V < 1550174439 438536 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550174450 154672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that it gets cut off in the end. < 1550174478 760711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does that count as a brilliant combination, as in chess? < 1550174707 306832 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550175159 732494 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550175436 513891 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck y'all < 1550175547 546728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u hth < 1550175551 383819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix your terminal < 1550175583 568743 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I wonder what that would do to a vt420 < 1550175619 127658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume kmc is using a vt420 < 1550175732 406772 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550176697 322608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550176834 532552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" b_jonas overtook boily" => that must have been when I deleted a lot of bad b_jonas wisdoms that were in < 1550176846 86190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still some remaining, but much less than there used to be < 1550177081 292693 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550177134 194469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a vt420 as my under-the-table terminal for quite a while. < 1550177165 388758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a local calculator app thing. < 1550177190 764855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you fed it leftovers under the table like to a dog? < 1550177218 459706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was just the terminal to use if you were on the floor for some reason. < 1550177288 469765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can paste the calculator results as terminal input, it's v. fancy. < 1550177306 64409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then the smoke got out.) < 1550177328 258600 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550177356 10231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so are you going to use this new openai bot as fungot v2 twh < 1550177356 255079 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm... i reckon vhdl is actually a real word, since it doesn't have a battery, but i doubt it. < 1550177384 318081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww: http://paste.debian.net/1067878/ < 1550177419 108642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, every terminal can do that. you just flip the switch to copy the terminal output to the paper tape, then do the calculation, then edit the tape with scissors, then feed it back to the card reader to enter it as terminal input < 1550177484 992509 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is the top-bench terminal (different from the bench-top terminal and the vaxtop terminal) < 1550177648 126981 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, never used the vt420's calculator, that looks really useful < 1550177700 410814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 420+1 NB. remote calculator < 1550177701 74664 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 421 < 1550178646 244830 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yollxoudcbgonlie JOIN :#esoteric < 1550178711 346876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi and clang are down. did someone botloop them with lambdabot after yesterday's discussion? < 1550180825 226751 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550180834 969850 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550180890 38653 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am amazed at how many of those modifyer characters my font still doesn't seem to support < 1550181095 674941 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :juice ssh is handling it better than wsl < 1550181099 463463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not perfect < 1550181131 71910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can use WSL through the PuTTY terminal < 1550181141 808469 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :S̰ͤ ňͤ < 1550181160 464523 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my font handles one of the e's but not the other why? < 1550181172 151883 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode S̰ͤ < 1550181173 395681 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0053 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S \ UTF-8: 53 UTF-16BE: 0053 Decimal: S \ S (s) \ Lowercase: U+0073 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0330 COMBINING TILDE BELOW \ UTF-8: cc b0 UTF-16BE: 0330 Decimal: ̰ \ ̰ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 220 (Below) \ \ U+0364 COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER E \ UTF-8: cd a4 UTF-16BE: 0364 Decimal: ͤ \ ͤ \ Category: Mn (Mark, < 1550181185 999580 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ňͤ < 1550181186 975024 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N \ UTF-8: 6e UTF-16BE: 006e Decimal: n \ n (N) \ Uppercase: U+004E \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+030C COMBINING CARON \ UTF-8: cc 8c UTF-16BE: 030c Decimal: ̌ \ ̌ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \ U+0364 COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER E \ UTF-8: cd a4 UTF-16BE: 0364 Decimal: ͤ \ ͤ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Sp < 1550181267 969749 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's because of the tilde below, if my font doesn't work with a combining mark it will fall back for both that and any later ones < 1550181338 55723 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to improve my font some more < 1550181358 505812 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1550181415 300476 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550181466 172185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ᛨᚳ < 1550181467 259769 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᛨᚳ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550181481 545018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that go away, or was it called something else? < 1550181505 984787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev}:{files_deleted}\n" wisdom/ᛨᚳ < 1550181507 77987 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550181523 192968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi ᛨ wisdom < 1550181524 238935 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550181527 368424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1550181592 738367 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :⸙ᚠᚡᚢᚣᚤᚥᚦᚧᚨᚩᚪᚫᚬᚭᚮᚯᚰᚱᚲᚳᚴᚵᚶᚷᚸᚹᚺᚻᚼᚽᚾᚿ < 1550181595 772602 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᛀᛁᛂᛃᛄᛅᛆᛇᛈᛉᛊᛋᛌᛍᛎᛏᛐᛑᛒᛓᛔᛕᛖᛗᛘᛙᛚᛛᛜᛝᛞᛟ < 1550181598 815755 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᛠᛡᛢᛣᛤᛥᛦᛧᛨᛩᛪ᛫᛬᛭ᛮᛯᛰᛱᛲᛳᛴᛵᛶᛷᛸ < 1550181604 739823 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait one of those isn't a rune < 1550181635 318917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you coming back to california twh < 1550181928 478288 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550182802 86405 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gowymjruswjihgsu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550182811 674431 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pfxrxsvwskfpldsv JOIN :#esoteric < 1550182828 838975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? peace witch < 1550182830 47601 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They're in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom to building material. < 1550183627 113376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550183722 114944 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2034: "President Logan Paul declares national emergency over epidemic of bubonic plague" < 1550184414 10616 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550184811 451604 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brilliant < 1550184812 587234 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :04B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ 07̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ 08̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ 09͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ 02͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ 06̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ 13͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ 04̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ 07̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ 08͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ 09̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ 02̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ 06̺͌c̑͡h̽̀âͮn̩̈́g̫ͣe͉͒ 13ͦ̓y̙͕o̔͒u̷ͬr͂͐ 04̓͝l͙͐ȉ͕f̹́ẹ̲ 07̤̹F̌ͅÒ͗R͚̼Ẽ̠V < 1550184948 299992 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1550185008 778273 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that really screwed up my vt320 < 1550185210 872312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Only if it's written in some form of Befunge twh < 1550185267 151954 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brillant < 1550185268 198930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :brillant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550185280 474812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it hth < 1550185315 127883 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Bean < 1550186416 380036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So french. < 1550186428 183891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also german.) < 1550188336 516843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550188523 63653 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550188787 304555 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550188849 500745 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550190351 939873 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C0AA0080CE1703774F086B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1550191100 982936 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C06A0080CE1703774F086B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1550191484 954803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tio < 1550191486 31329 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1550191498 17516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd tio//s,$,., < 1550191499 827884 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tio//TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs. < 1550191531 91026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he even looked at `? rules of wisdom right after < 1550191639 749044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg tio < 1550191641 263851 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11734:2019-02-15 slwd tio//s,$,., \ 11706:2019-02-02 learn TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1550191676 918181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas seriously needs to learn `dowg < 1550191745 424316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if dowg had a better name hth < 1550193559 169735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can now finally remember the doag/dowg/hoag/howg set, though I still don't know where they come from. Presumably the 'd' refers to date, and the 'w' to wisdom, but that's all I've guessed. < 1550194371 811111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hog < 1550194372 479166 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlnp --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" < 1550194376 795516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hog = hg log, I think? < 1550194396 109192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hoag < 1550194396 794726 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlnp --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" < 1550194435 819638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoag = hog but also show revisions where files were removed < 1550194462 955684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's named after the story by Heinlein, _The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag_, though I'm not sure. < 1550194472 338505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/doag < 1550194473 24715 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlnp --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@" < 1550194476 38750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doag = hoag with date < 1550194525 363429 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1550194555 456536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :himc < 1550194827 834878 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yollxoudcbgonlie QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550195200 251009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hoag < 1550195201 491007 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`[hd]o[aw][gt] [] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first. < 1550195249 20767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a stands for "all", but then later we started censoring scow revisions < 1550195261 151897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's possible? < 1550196505 969507 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C06A0080CE1703774F086B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550198211 602052 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:3177:936a:acf2:68fd JOIN :#esoteric < 1550198218 252044 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:3177:936a:acf2:68fd PART :#esoteric < 1550198272 133630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/[hd]o[aw][gt] < 1550198273 108310 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/doag \ bin/doat \ bin/dowg \ bin/dowt \ bin/hoag \ bin/hoat \ bin/howg \ bin/howt < 1550198288 560836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wanted to check there's the full set. < 1550198290 822878 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go < 1550198292 804231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/mintty/wsltty < 1550198298 188765 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounced "weasel titty", I assume < 1550198386 595316 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it can handle the runes and zalgo and whatever the fuck you perverts were pasting here earlier < 1550198448 607763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc < 1550198449 656083 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013. < 1550198463 523570 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1550198464 608298 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. < 1550198481 690751 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are some words < 1550199300 681047 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550199769 392848 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1550201561 166435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :freefall's fourth wall seems to be creaking in the seams today < 1550201591 884542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at < 1550202929 574360 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550203356 531693 :Vilivikhorith!~vivi@2601:548:4201:6b71::381f QUIT :Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients < 1550203803 380905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that every game in the series of XYZABCDE may be a different VM. The first one is ZZT, and then maybe others may be Glulx, Z-machine, MegaZeux, Famicom, TAVERN, TAVERN32, etc. < 1550204875 895204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least, that is one possibility.) < 1550206597 516980 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Alas. < 1550206604 950497 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1550206651 538789 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1550206651 578231 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550217189 372576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550217894 106156 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550219746 399952 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550219846 517810 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1550221827 772807 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1550221842 755547 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed around with ZZT a bit but i didn't get started on XYZABCDE yet, except just going to the right and dying < 1550222230 82280 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you made any game with ZZT? < 1550222241 2196 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550222248 160844 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550222251 391371 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only found about ZZT through you actually < 1550222385 183567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played other ZZT worlds? < 1550222418 93762 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, just the default set and your other one < 1550222427 80423 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent completed any yet < 1550222476 849932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :XYZABCDE is difficult, although there are cheats if you don't mind to use that. < 1550222668 426023 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pfxrxsvwskfpldsv QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550222685 980361 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-fvydeuxbjqmxgikp JOIN :#esoteric < 1550222769 86440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also answer questions that you have, in case you have questions about ZZT or about XYZABCDE.ZZT specifically. < 1550223016 580842 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1550223037 156707 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not a very dedicated gamer so i just play around a bit, i probably wont get too far < 1550223071 997540 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmrnmasmrwriegbv JOIN :#esoteric < 1550224841 893680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550225052 460681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o < 1550225366 66399 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550226206 890194 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550226229 48792 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C06A0025809B694BC99B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1550226231 984497 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550231948 216889 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550232050 22246 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmrnmasmrwriegbv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550232053 429685 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550232086 690095 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550233592 722917 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550233673 99756 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: melt the wax statuette in the sauna. the statuette itself is worthless, but there's a gemstone inside it. the game gives absolutely no clue that you're supposed to do that. also try taking the bone to the blacklight room and "look" at it there. < 1550233745 974595 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make frequent saves, because it's easy to mess something up, and these days it's quick to make saves and you can have a lot on your disk, it's not like when you had to save to magnetic casette. < 1550235518 66774 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and in the maze of twisty passages, all alike, drop items so you can distinguish rooms, then pick them up after you've figured out the way out. < 1550235550 919995 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least drop one item in the starting room of the maze. < 1550235573 504028 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since some of these mazes are designed such that all doors except one in each room lead to the starting room. < 1550244360 723085 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550247271 870782 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1550249150 596483 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfhktsslwzqygwhr JOIN :#esoteric > 1550249188 63509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NEGATOR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59879&oldid=59026 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+20) 10 < 1550250010 505645 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1550251397 699143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59880&oldid=59013 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+117) 10 > 1550251478 703663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59881&oldid=59880 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1) 10 > 1550251508 55506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59882&oldid=59881 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 > 1550251515 705730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59883&oldid=59882 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-1) 10 < 1550254960 238634 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1550258211 782951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59884&oldid=58633 5* 03Gamer 5* (+1) 10/* Concept */ > 1550258310 944877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59885&oldid=59884 5* 03Gamer 5* (+13) 10/* Concept */ < 1550259893 66261 :Cale_!~cale@205.209.26.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550260297 521004 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-fvydeuxbjqmxgikp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550260328 804204 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zcukvradsqoccvfy JOIN :#esoteric < 1550262190 183836 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550263047 270667 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550263414 647600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1550263414 728953 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1550263414 729000 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1550264903 854276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: What game do you mean? < 1550265186 836127 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3C06A0025809B694BC99B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550266747 114023 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550266770 679025 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550268821 767045 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that the most efficient way to run a Fractran program is probably not "translate it into sed" < 1550268851 88243 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as I'm now doing all the maths in unary with regexes < 1550268959 197881 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550269260 633429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it starting from the end and working backwards < 1550269283 594437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550269285 510522 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1331) ...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550269530 140632 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfhktsslwzqygwhr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550269954 993995 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550272249 942380 :Cale_!~cale@205.209.26.14 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550272657 99716 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 257 seconds < 1550274842 52468 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550275187 773247 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550275366 955235 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550275606 126496 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550275881 951684 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-waytqqtbxykiuemr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550281381 442186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anything be made with "Thue-Mirr" esolang? < 1550281390 509351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550281646 64038 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550284424 594904 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550285125 840329 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey people would you want to connect this channel with the esolangs discord server? < 1550285159 293321 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know other channels have connected to their respective dicord server. < 1550285272 814352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have to ask the channel operators I should think, although maybe that will work I don't know. I would think is needing some bridge but if it is a single client then they come from the same client so will need to specify the name in the message < 1550285410 824265 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we *have* ops? < 1550285434 569535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, although it is managed by ChanServ rather than being directly. < 1550285464 488130 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-waytqqtbxykiuemr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550285465 606333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Use the CS ACCESS LIST command for the ChanServ managed operators) < 1550285513 308995 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no owner, I see < 1550285701 711522 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuk discord and slack < 1550285712 422456 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck em < 1550285716 898588 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1550285724 901605 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care enough to get into it rn < 1550285741 404680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Discord and Slack either, so, I don't use them. IRC is much better. < 1550285742 475636 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a bridge can't really hurt can it? < 1550285782 955408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm anti-bridge. < 1550285790 662056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think people already run a Slack bridge here? < 1550285807 900162 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProgrammingLanguages has had great success with theirs. < 1550285816 318485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slbkbs.org/dontclick.txt < 1550285822 337981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, Slackbot < 1550285849 925883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just me < 1550285861 235474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so resistant to temptation < 1550285887 333255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe there were others) < 1550285912 821033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the question is what success is. < 1550285930 456323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly maximizing the number of users oughtn't be a goal of any IRC channel, because all the big channels are scow. < 1550285957 477927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting more on topic chat < 1550285995 456576 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really just to have more conversation. < 1550286064 844449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Camto < 1550286066 288814 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :06Camto: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1550286076 520445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot can generate unlimited conversation < 1550286076 600316 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i write like that how should i do < 1550286097 598628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: just like that. you did good. < 1550286097 832603 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well oklotalk does not it is at least. on ubuntu and debian o.o fnord :( < 1550286254 973997 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeez that is so rainbow. < 1550286256 929547 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1550286268 41880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the r is for < 1550286319 922155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/helcome < 1550286320 572369 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/helcome: No such file or directory < 1550286321 205440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1550286330 336904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more fire and brimstone < 1550286400 469122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sidles away < 1550286426 115489 :LyricLy!7345a465@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.69.164.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550286450 69018 :LyricLy!7345a465@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.69.164.101 QUIT :Client Quit < 1550287593 668750 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1550290398 756938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best kind of parser for a text adventure game, do you think? < 1550290805 914865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people said Discord is better because it has logging (on the server) and IRC doesn't have, but actually such thing is independent of the protocol, and such a thing is possible in IRC too (I know, because once, I modified a IRC server software to implement this) < 1550291090 44608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not independent of the protocol because someone who joins a Discord channel sees messages that were sent before they joined. < 1550291113 146985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That feature isn't, but simply that it has logs is independent. < 1550292391 910752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295377 87541 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295380 243869 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295384 694994 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295524 704836 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295647 338152 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295652 735668 :mynery!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295669 725788 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550295669 766247 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550295678 164587 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 448610 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 597554 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 721946 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 811789 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 898386 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 952936 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295678 997906 :Bob-!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550295753 818631 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295756 105194 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me QUIT :Changing host < 1550295756 105236 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1550295830 494817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550296000 346080 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550296811 426704 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric > 1550298577 758662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59886&oldid=59736 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+5) 10/* Commands */ correct Younger Futhark/Unicode name of < 1550299598 943738 :mynery!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com NICK :myname < 1550304251 791498 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not any time soon sadly < 1550304616 872983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: imo why not < 1550304816 81350 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already used up too much paid leave for this year < 1550305113 431088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to that one lecture in cambridge < 1550305125 378571 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed that < 1550305127 305024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe it's part of a thing < 1550305138 670473 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's another one lecture in cambridge < 1550305149 939028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jdh.hamkins.org/forcing-as-a-computational-process-cambridge-februrary-2019/ < 1550305160 517961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is... today? < 1550305187 881333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you understand forcing < 1550305267 826098 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1550307418 453813 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550310836 345320 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand forcing! < 1550310881 40077 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :too short of a notice tho < 1550311124 823863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain forcing twh < 1550311353 926929 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550311547 267555 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1550311549 960734 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1550311559 628130 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :"last night my partner forced his way into my throat" < 1550311582 503563 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wrong kinda forcing < 1550312188 969063 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550315644 64304 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550315660 884835 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550315751 461385 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric > 1550315847 944051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59887 5* 03Kamish 5* (+3215) 10Created page with "

Shishkirism

'''Shishkirism''' - esoteric programming language, created as a joke by the [[User:Kamish]]

Commands

Consists of 13 commands: {|..." > 1550315864 592825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59888&oldid=59887 5* 03Kamish 5* (-26) 10 > 1550315990 902360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59889&oldid=59791 5* 03Kamish 5* (+37) 10/* General languages */ > 1550316078 576777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Kamish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59890&oldid=57122 5* 03Kamish 5* (+20) 10 > 1550316153 641902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59891&oldid=59888 5* 03Kamish 5* (-1) 10 > 1550316339 199130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Kamish 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Colorpascal.png10]]": Pascal color codes > 1550316737 445826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Kamish 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Colorpascal.png10]]" > 1550316911 711775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59894&oldid=59891 5* 03Kamish 5* (+1904) 10 < 1550317553 95874 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: bring black roses for the wicked one < 1550317568 496095 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1550317908 231306 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1550318075 920549 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550318289 373117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think more on-topic conversation would be amiss, though I'm a little suspicious of bridgey stuffs and how well they integrate with the IRC experience. > 1550318302 162550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59895&oldid=59894 5* 03Kamish 5* (-77) 10 < 1550318427 321767 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550318523 301664 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550318526 222685 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1550318597 752880 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550318646 498714 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a esoteric programming discord? < 1550321537 855004 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550322075 789038 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e < 1550322776 473037 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550326882 598647 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mimtkyfvpycybjhi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550330019 471307 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv > 1550330080 673369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59896&oldid=59895 5* 03Kamish 5* (-7) 10 > 1550330605 500534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59897&oldid=59896 5* 03Kamish 5* (+90) 10 < 1550333670 870582 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550334331 711178 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1550334354 939114 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550334666 631102 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mimtkyfvpycybjhi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550336255 315789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59898&oldid=59897 5* 03Kamish 5* (+35) 10 < 1550336285 988168 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550336670 855196 :77FABM7QO!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550337740 951695 :77FABM7QO!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1550338539 110881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59899&oldid=59898 5* 03Kamish 5* (+6) 10 < 1550338851 41867 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550339544 880056 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550340197 356437 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550342644 10036 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550344026 64197 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550347001 793890 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550347152 661686 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550347199 860120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550347765 461221 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550347833 745020 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Client Quit < 1550347923 868068 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tililylaytirjqit JOIN :#esoteric < 1550348763 513606 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP BRUNO GANZ < 1550352135 979160 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d16d:b525:38cd:1856 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1550352905 7987 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:435:a1dc:b290:d10c JOIN :#esoteric < 1550354514 214001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550354725 413273 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550356767 100504 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1550358641 173220 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550359907 205343 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tililylaytirjqit QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550360473 562228 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550361319 327424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550361413 943423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550361459 952246 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1550361612 563948 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550361677 944448 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550361786 558058 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550363711 833363 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550364018 859354 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1550364924 434424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vague14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59900&oldid=59800 5* 03Cortex 5* (-33) 10 > 1550365145 551405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hexomnia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59901&oldid=59356 5* 03Cortex 5* (+35) 10 < 1550365699 675341 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550365886 401512 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550366940 482593 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550367219 471554 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550368901 811869 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas-Hex[AFK] < 1550368937 261059 :Remavas-Hex[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas- < 1550369023 730743 :Remavas-!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550372823 226368 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550373220 472276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to tell Firefox to disable kerning for editable fields? < 1550373383 960329 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550373647 938401 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550373831 921889 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550373856 320678 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550374678 8497 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550376975 793551 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 4-tuple model of a turing machine is the most natural. < 1550378476 886213 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so, and compared to what? < 1550378520 772959 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the 5-tuple model. instead of having (current state, old symbol, new symbol, direction, new state), you have (current state, old smbol, command, new state). < 1550378545 396723 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 4-tuple model is generalizable to not even include symbols, but 'conditions', which can be defined as boolean functions. < 1550378585 135711 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general form of an automaton, moving from the 4-tuple model, looks like (current state, condition, next state, command). < 1550378684 171393 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550378766 200017 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were to try to generalize the 5-tuple model to include more actions, the number of states you'd need to accomplish a "no-op" blows up like mad, and in some cases, may not even be possible. < 1550379841 51244 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550380136 44612 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550381443 336973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550382746 515497 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550383079 842945 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550383256 285066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think with the Amycus numbers, length is popcount and head is ctz, isn't it? < 1550383337 839742 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550385037 91363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550386285 256355 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550386553 267730 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550388255 839156 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550389014 211458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59902&oldid=59899 5* 03Kamish 5* (+1814) 10 < 1550390972 949567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550391271 163579 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Taneb prime memory 3 < 1550391272 371375 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550391280 814215 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote before reaching 3 < 1550391281 543438 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550391310 32123 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you know yesterday I had a program which lists primes which ran out of memory before reaching 3? < 1550391321 624721 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made some changes and now it can reach at least 131 < 1550391365 118592 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a Fractran -> Sed compiler-ish thing < 1550391383 854871 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550391394 41240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RELATIONS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59903 5* 03Kamish 5* (+718) 10Created page with "

'''RELATIONS''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Kamish|Kamish]]

This language is absolutely useless and '''has 8 commands:'''

{| class="wik..." < 1550391396 568091 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550391408 945790 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550391448 592255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Kamish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59904&oldid=59890 5* 03Kamish 5* (+18) 10 > 1550391538 458982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59905&oldid=59889 5* 03Kamish 5* (+54) 10 > 1550392308 58832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kate14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59906 5* 03Kamish 5* (+647) 10Created page with "

'''Kate''' - esoteric programming language created by [[User:Kamish|Kamish]]

The language consists of only one command - Kate

{| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !..." < 1550392311 894096 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550392490 725018 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1550392527 889706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59907&oldid=59905 5* 03Kamish 5* (+34) 10 > 1550392560 210689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Kamish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59908&oldid=59904 5* 03Kamish 5* (+13) 10 < 1550394152 282999 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550394479 958829 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550394650 233193 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550394844 950452 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550394983 451216 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550395011 256741 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550395222 64731 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550396006 93511 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550396319 851380 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550396689 764912 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome Taneb!! > 1550402026 122065 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Alikberoff 5* 10New user account < 1550402912 880583 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550402972 860698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550403076 236572 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550403076 496365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re Amicus number representation, yes < 1550403096 670469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: lol < 1550403109 450065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we quote that? < 1550403111 61771 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukwdihzznilzgwhx JOIN :#esoteric < 1550403195 305352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventures http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190216.html < 1550403196 20435 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventures: not found > 1550404479 562186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59909&oldid=59854 5* 03Alikberoff 5* (+115) 10/* Introductions */ > 1550404491 986540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Generic 2D Befunge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59910 5* 03Alikberoff 5* (+1788) 10~~~~ < 1550404832 948297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550404921 477460 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1550404990 441656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Generic 2D Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59911&oldid=59910 5* 03Alikberov 5* (+89) 10 < 1550404991 850008 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550405059 661861 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550408151 957960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550412875 857216 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550412885 846277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550414536 611323 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550414654 451326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help quote < 1550414656 76426 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. < 1550414657 4188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help addquote < 1550414658 140223 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550414662 82824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help qdb < 1550414663 314314 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat < 1550414664 384696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help quote format < 1550414665 606986 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote format? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550414698 188558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quoteformat < 1550414699 245267 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoteformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two. < 1550414724 424219 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550414732 806805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` addquote ' Anyway, you know yesterday I had a program which lists primes which ran out of memory before reaching 3?' #https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02-17.html#lT < 1550414734 644604 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1332) Anyway, you know yesterday I had a program which lists primes which ran out of memory before reaching 3? < 1550415696 821595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1550415704 133865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck, English < 1550415821 938804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not only do they have sign /saIn/, signal /"sIgn@l/, but also resign /rI"zaIn/, resignation /rezIg"neIS@n/ < 1550415826 594304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1550415837 698541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sign < 1550415838 747867 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550418693 183943 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukwdihzznilzgwhx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550418766 321976 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1550419233 723192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TheJebForge 5* 10New user account > 1550419399 549187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59912&oldid=59909 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+234) 10 > 1550419500 669392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Glutton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59913&oldid=59856 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+561) 10Made some more progress finishing this up. > 1550419562 854794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TheJebForge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59914 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+212) 10Created page with "I'm TheJebForge, a hobbyist programmer and I know most of the popular programming languages. Favorite languages are C++ and Lua. Joined this community to showcase a language I..." > 1550419772 64088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59915&oldid=59859 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+13) 10 > 1550420014 854297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59916 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+553) 10Created page with "== minaac == Minaac (Minaac Is Not An Assembler Clone) is a run-time interpreted programming language capable of recreating Turing Machine making it a turing-complete languag..." > 1550420342 153522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59917&oldid=59916 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+120) 10 > 1550420366 69918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59918&oldid=59917 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+21) 10/* Minaac */ > 1550420510 718204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59919&oldid=59918 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+49) 10 > 1550420538 48338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59920&oldid=59919 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+4) 10/* External resources */ > 1550420574 266942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59921&oldid=59920 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+23) 10 < 1550420661 121879 :TheJebForge!576e6588@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.110.101.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550420667 999384 :TheJebForge!576e6588@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.110.101.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello :D < 1550420893 135194 :TheJebForge!576e6588@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.110.101.136 QUIT :Client Quit > 1550421097 517030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59922&oldid=59921 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+1) 10 < 1550422245 724916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 30*50 < 1550422246 294088 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1500 > 1550424246 222785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric data structure14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59923&oldid=44362 5* 03Cortex 5* (+22) 10 > 1550426526 446314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59924&oldid=59258 5* 03Cortex 5* (+43) 10 > 1550426601 817237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59925&oldid=59806 5* 03Cortex 5* (+21) 10 > 1550426694 925259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59926 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1577) 10Created page with "Coming soon: Usefulness {{WIP}} '''Pizza Delivery''' is yet another esolang by [[User:Cortex|]] designed to be similar to the logic of other Cortex languages, but more concise..." < 1550427175 290198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dmishin.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-single-rotation-rule-remarkably.html < 1550428480 822788 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550429297 39132 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's interesting < 1550429563 931400 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550429789 691884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TheJebForge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59927&oldid=59914 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+4) 10 > 1550429816 412510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59928&oldid=59922 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+2) 10/* Example code */ > 1550430339 626875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59929&oldid=59928 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+239) 10/* Minaac */ > 1550430352 560642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minaac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59930&oldid=59929 5* 03TheJebForge 5* (+1) 10/* Minaac */ < 1550431807 341915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thank you! < 1550432117 232541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? east port < 1550432118 454107 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :east port? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550433030 265008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550433030 344965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1550433030 345033 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550433836 999962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gray < 1550433838 62477 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gray is e common misspalling of grey. < 1550433856 151112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits gray < 1550433858 922 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1550433865 157941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? grey < 1550433866 205433 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grey? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550434486 33311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Let's not make an entry on Grey codes. ) < 1550434494 94701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fuchsia < 1550434495 126335 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuchsia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550434502 703459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` < 1550434503 451149 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: option requires an argument < 1550434530 657096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` for c in sc cs csh sch sh ch; do \? fu"$c"ia; done < 1550434533 817078 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuscia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ fucsia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ fucshia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ fuschia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ fushia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ fuchia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550434557 484227 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wrl < 1550434558 105453 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/wisdom < 1550434604 186414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits pokemon red < 1550434605 785090 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdocöc < 1550434693 61085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was the person who was against cwlprits and dowg and grWp and all those things? < 1550434704 522811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like there was one (other than b_jonas) but now everyone's using them. < 1550434904 389621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have troulbe with the etymology of things like `doag. < 1550434942 74043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have troulbe with spelling, apparently. < 1550434954 911422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not specifically against them < 1550434972 770536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like everyone should be allowed to use whatever tools they want, and judged by their results regardless of their tools < 1550435000 785191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should apply for programming languages too: if you write useful stuff in java or php, that's fine, it's your problem if you have to wrestle with the language during, not mine as a user < 1550435031 401638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I prefer Mediawiki over other wikis, even if Mediawiki is the one using php < 1550435035 293449 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you use javascript and burden me with electron then I will complain. < 1550435037 373987 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1550435134 470777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for editors and even IDEs < 1550435537 392965 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think there's a limit to this idea. < 1550435559 828007 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like... given a network facing C program, I expect it to have a 100% chance of having latent undiscovered memory unsafety, of a type that is potentially exploitable < 1550435588 90455 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tools can well be inapproprate in ways the user cares about < 1550435593 461987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550435607 341523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1550435607 386153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1550435643 142480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Do you want to rename these things? < 1550435655 403715 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some way to tell the "uuid" program to use a different MAC address? < 1550435665 166418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe there could be a better system than encoding subsets of behaviors people care about in the command name. < 1550435668 179237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no! < 1550435692 623868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't rename these, please < 1550435718 563000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll just cause even more confusion < 1550435720 178611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a few years. People are too used to the existing names. < 1550435779 813635 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3 < 1550435831 776343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose it isn't difficult to just edit the resulting UUID to put in a different MAC address) < 1550435908 840648 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550435910 373732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550435929 515408 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1550436059 528369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais < 1550436108 13779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I found out that there are like eight M:tG cards, even not counting the silver-bordered ones, that make other players make choices while you're casting a spell < 1550436182 287237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're old, but have some reprings < 1550436228 329927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` card-by-name Arena # is one of them < 1550436229 73915 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arena \ Land \ {3}, {T}: Tap target creature you control and target creature of an opponent's choice they control. Those creatures fight each other. (Each deals damage equal to its power to the other.) \ PROMO-S, TSP-S \ \ Arena Athlete \ 1R \ Creature -- Human \ 2/1 \ Heroic -- Whenever you cast a spell that targets Arena Athlete, target creature an opponent controls can't block this turn. \ THS-U \ \ Arena of the Ancients \ 3 \ Artifact \ Legendary cre < 1550436298 173596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` card-by-name Evangelize # is a new one in TSP < 1550436298 920107 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evangelize \ 4W \ Sorcery \ Buyback {2}{W}{W} (You may pay an additional {2}{W}{W} as you cast this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.) \ Gain control of target creature of an opponent's choice they control. \ TSP-R < 1550436493 796275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I don't know how casting spells work, and have to read the comp rules < 1550436514 462297 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how it work; I have read the rules < 1550436686 633040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :First modes are chosen, and then targets, and then the cost is determine, and then the mana step if applicable, and then the cost is paid. < 1550436868 595234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1550436877 125483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can the opponent's choice of targets, or any choices by other players during the mana abilities part, change whether the caster can pay the costs of the spell? < 1550436913 823031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mean without silver-bordered cards < 1550436928 354067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with Gleemax that could happen, but let's exclude Gleemax now as it's silver-bordered < 1550436960 583922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some cards with effects that might do that (even not counting silver bordered) (although I do not quite remember all of the cards) < 1550436977 310417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't seem any more broken than Selvala < 1550437010 27776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you'd just have to rewrite if an opponent chose a target which meant you couldn't afford to pay the costs of the spell < 1550437014 564061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rewind < 1550437039 552394 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think some cards increase the cost for targeting them) < 1550437049 538689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550437061 970501 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not remember which ones.) < 1550437089 783991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Selvala, Explorer Returned < 1550437090 659371 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selvala, Explorer Returned \ 1GW \ Legendary Creature -- Elf Scout \ 2/4 \ Parley -- {T}: Each player reveals the top card of their library. For each nonland card revealed this way, add {G} and you gain 1 life. Then each player draws a card. \ CNS-R, C16-R, VMA-R < 1550437095 387340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tricky, some cards like that counter the spell unless a cost is paid, rather than actually increasing the cost < 1550437106 979458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the great thing is, that's a mana ability < 1550437120 692828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1550437137 958802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can attempt to use it to pay for a spell, and then discover you don't have enough mana < 1550437139 44472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is a mana ability which reveals cards from a library < 1550437150 528307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't we have rules managers that can rein Wizards in when they have such ideas? < 1550437151 525870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't rewind because the cards from the library have already been seen < 1550437153 951318 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And conditionally adds mana based on that < 1550437166 395659 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't even work < 1550437184 12955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clearly doesn't work but the rules managers have been reluctant to change it < 1550437213 722915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a rule that if something would reveal hidden cards while casting a spell, they're instead revealed only later, after casting the spell? or is that only for _drawing_ cards specifically? < 1550437226 492349 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think only for drawing cards < 1550437243 665785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you draw them face down < 1550437250 715660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't help with Selvala because they're explicitly revealed < 1550437258 603048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1550437275 781083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should really just have put "play this ability only any time you could play an instant" on there < 1550437279 3292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.7 < 1550437284 334942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least day-1-errata'd it to that < 1550437288 694956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for mysterious reasons, they didn't < 1550437292 423205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that would help < 1550437306 341349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a morph of an opponent dies during the mana ability part of casting a spell, you'll just learn what it is immediately, even if casting the spell may have to be rewound? < 1550437330 687645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that can happen, although I can't think of a way to do it offhand < 1550437364 83577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could have stolen it, and sacrificed it to Phyrexian Altar, but then you'd legally be allowed to look at it so it'd only matter in multiplayer < 1550437405 637529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just copy a Wild Cantor on it < 1550437414 718596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1550437418 602116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be your own morph then < 1550437421 608237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1550437435 754527 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my puzzle? < 1550437450 609520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing an opponent's creature at mana ability speed is hard because you can't use triggered abilities < 1550437455 859540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550437468 763623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are there any global toughness boosts in the game? I think there are, right? < 1550437473 898719 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: worse still, you can't even use toughness reduction because SBAs won't kick in < 1550437479 956724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, SBAs < 1550437491 22931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to kill directly < 1550437530 340312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seeing a Panglacial Wurm there worries me < 1550437544 253602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, this was easier when I could just search for "pool" to find every mana ability < 1550437585 859723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "add" used in other contexts? < 1550437598 481594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you newfangled youths with your intuitive "dies" and "create [token]" and "add [mana]" phrasing, back when I was young we had to write rules text uphill both ways in the snow < 1550437601 478467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1550437611 110632 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card \badd\b < 1550437611 982217 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shefet Dunes \ Land -- Desert \ {T}: Add {C}. \ {T}, Pay 1 life: Add {W}. \ {2}{W}{W}, {T}, Sacrifice a Desert: Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery. \ HOU-U < 1550437616 255114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not that < 1550437629 502817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550437701 188246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you might be right, maybe it doesn't occur elsewhere < 1550437713 267403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be better than "pool" because "pool" occurs in some card names < 1550437766 421907 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "add" is used in other contexts, they would presumably say where to add it to, and you would be adding something other than mana, anyways < 1550437916 221498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: with your puzzle, can't you just win by discarding a card to Skirge Familiar and attacking with everything? < 1550437922 21271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT the opponent can't block and you do 4 damage < 1550437948 638464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and Simian Spirit Guide makes it very easy to have cases where you start casting a spell without being able to pay its costs but the opponent doesn't know that for sure < 1550437995 859088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe, although it is not intention. I will look to see if it is or not < 1550437995 947640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that in general it's possible to always be able for an opponent to know in advance how much mana you can generate < 1550438001 544715 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can be fixed if necessary) < 1550438183 553455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think you can win like that? You can do only 3 damage, isn't it? < 1550438208 824104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: lhurgoyf does one for the discarded instant/sorcery in your graveyard, skirge familiar does 3 < 1550438223 629274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anafenza only prevents creature cards going to the graveyard and has no impact on instants and sorceries < 1550438236 393025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, does lhurgoyf only count creatures? < 1550438255 457809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, only counts creatures < 1550438266 356408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Metalworker < 1550438267 121620 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metalworker \ 3 \ Artifact Creature -- Construct \ 1/2 \ {T}: Reveal any number of artifact cards in your hand. Add {C}{C} for each card revealed this way. \ UD-R < 1550438305 775736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Lhurgoyf only counts creatures. < 1550438364 307246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the panglacial wurm is a red herring as none of your cards appear to search, it's probably just there to be an arbitrary creature < 1550438387 866788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me look < 1550438508 373136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would zzo38 really do that in a puzzle? adding such an irrelevant element? < 1550438557 631590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1550438557 713471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he would < 1550438569 12954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different puzzle setters have different styles but I don't know what zzo38's is < 1550438571 791452 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it doesn't look like anything searches there. not even a search land. < 1550438621 981031 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550438782 115628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think zzo38's puzzle is solvable as you can't get rid of the anafenza or the lab maniac, and can't cast the panglacial wurm even after drawing it, thus you can't get more than 3 power on the field and can't win by any alternate win condition, also there's no way to stop the opponent winning next turn < 1550438785 566065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I might have missed something < 1550438866 338840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once someone found the intended solution but was unsure if it was valid or not, and they are a judge of Magic: the Gathering. < 1550438976 238791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, chromatic sphere draws a card at mana ability speed, and I'm pretty sure that's part of the solution < 1550438989 337807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1550439037 303373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the intended solution is something along the lines of "cast panglacial wurm from your library, but draw it while you're casting it so that it isn't there, and something goes wrong during the rewind" < 1550439050 136711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see a way to do the first step as none of the cards you have search your library < 1550439095 30553 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that isn't it < 1550439123 844912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not have to rewind. < 1550439190 44364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :panglacial wurm isn't castable as it has GG in its cost and you can only generate one green mana < 1550439225 661782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1550439238 662176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does the intended solution involve attempting to cast panglacial wurm while casting opt? because that isn't legal < 1550439239 712874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw it while you're casting it? < 1550439242 267155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that even work? < 1550439250 187123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it doesn't involve that < 1550439261 512604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it does not involve rewinding < 1550439264 456931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, at what point does a card go to the stack while you're casting it? probably before you pay costs < 1550439274 631063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it on the stack and no longer in your library while you're casting it? < 1550439279 191408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very early < 1550439320 922898 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see rule 601.2a < 1550439346 741800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, my problem here is that you can trivially draw panglacial wurm, but I don't think you can do anything else with it < 1550439358 544060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting it on the stack is the first step before deciding modes. < 1550439366 680659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can discard it into exile, but that doesn't seem to help either < 1550439387 191128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep '^601\.2a' share/mtg/rules.txt < 1550439387 845258 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :601.2a To propose the casting of a spell, a player first moves that card (or that copy of a card) from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its controller. The spell remains on the stack until it's countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere. < 1550439429 922836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused at the way you quoted the . there < 1550439435 308085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes the grep run fasteR? < 1550439455 573213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do it to make gerp run faster < 1550439462 794560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :false positives seem unlikely < 1550439476 702545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep ^601.2a share/mtg/rules.txt < 1550439477 503102 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :601.2a To propose the casting of a spell, a player first moves that card (or that copy of a card) from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its controller. The spell remains on the stack until it's countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere. < 1550439477 597460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the running speed is insignificant because the network lag is bigger < 1550439482 925199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it dirty to not quote it < 1550439511 40094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need a caret or it will find an earlier line, so I can't just -F it, and -w or -x doesn't help < 1550439600 382948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have an alias to do a recursive search for a particular string at the start of a line, but it doesn't quote it < 1550439618 164899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it does some other things, though, like opening the found result in less) < 1550439636 973269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to quickly jump to a function in code that uses an indentation style which places newlines before function names in their definintions < 1550439694 756778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't be too strange to have an alias in HackEso that displays a particular rule < 1550439701 412002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by number < 1550439710 140187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the Yawgatog bot has that feature < 1550439716 774542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my most commonly used alias, though, is one called "l" which does ls on directories, ls on . if given no arguments, and less on regular files < 1550439724 188904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part is that some rules really don't fit in an irc line < 1550439741 522197 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if dwarf fortress w as an anime < 1550439760 166684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you should fix so that the cards do not have reminder text. This solves two problems, one is it makes searching better to omit reminder text, and other is that it is less likely to go over the maximum length of the IRC text if the reminder text is omitted. < 1550439763 569778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding it hard to visualise what an anime dwarf would look like < 1550439797 719200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Elven Fortress < 1550439798 428648 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elven Fortress \ G \ Enchantment \ {1}{G}: Target blocking creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn. \ FE-C < 1550439844 542462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I told you already, fix that yourself if you want < 1550439879 939557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: O, OK. < 1550439894 849660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name duh < 1550439895 668688 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh \ B \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with reminder text. (Reminder text is any italicized text in parentheses that explains rules you already know.) \ UNH-C < 1550439919 721038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :detecting reminder text might be quite hard < 1550439923 774716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one like the reminder text, because I can't remember all 136 keyword abilities < 1550439932 484351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps opening paren followed by capital letter is a reliable way to detect it? < 1550439945 258932 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? are there other parenthesis in the rules text part? < 1550439957 957415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, not sure though < 1550439963 670909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know the parentheses are not used for anything else other than reminder text < 1550439972 985055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/card-by-name < 1550439973 753381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e 'open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}' "$1" < 1550439993 957188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that looks ugly < 1550440010 281872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's \A? start of a line? < 1550440015 687904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: start of the string < 1550440029 24014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in this case is more than a line < 1550440030 245524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the while already splits it into lines < 1550440031 335087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a whole card < 1550440037 533913 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it splits it to paragraphs < 1550440044 95420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's one paragraph per card < 1550440046 736298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ideally) < 1550440054 508580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I missed the override of $/ < 1550440121 485310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep '([a-z]' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt < 1550440122 248690 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3(r/p)(r/p) \ ({(r/p)} can be paid with either {R} or 2 life.) \ When Aether Chaser enters the battlefield, you get {E}{E} (two energy counters). \ When Aether Herder enters the battlefield, you get {E}{E} (two energy counters). \ When Aether Hub enters the battlefield, you get {E} (an energy counter). \ When Aether Inspector enters the battlefield, you get {E}{E} (two energy counters). \ When Aether Meltdown enters the battlefield, you get {E}{E} (two ene < 1550440132 9925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1550440137 925371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's in a mana cost < 1550440144 121505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to find one in a rule text < 1550440149 675031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's close enough < 1550440157 970697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we count the energy counter counting text as reminder text? < 1550440163 733455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the yawgatog allsets dump, it's not even trivial to find which lines are mana costs < 1550440193 643288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name graven cairns < 1550440194 348253 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graven Cairns \ Land \ {T}: Add {C}. \ {(b/r)}, {T}: Add {B}{B}, {B}{R}, or {R}{R}. \ FUT-R, SHM-R, EXP-M, IMA-R < 1550440200 731142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1550440206 950094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. it's printed with parens in italic on the card, so it's reminder text. < 1550440228 842289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep '([a-z]' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt | grep -v energy < 1550440229 636688 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3(r/p)(r/p) \ ({(r/p)} can be paid with either {R} or 2 life.) \ 3(w/u) \ Whenever Alesha, Who Smiles at Death attacks, you may pay {(w/b)}{(w/b)}. If you do, return target creature card with power 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped and attacking. \ Your opponents can't cast spells with the chosen name (as long as this creature is on the battlefield). \ 1(w/p) \ ({(w/p)} can be paid with either {W} or 2 life.) \ Cycling {(u/b)} ({(u/b) < 1550440247 492676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep '([a-z]' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt | grep -v energy | grep -v '([a-z]/[a-z])' < 1550440248 314628 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your opponents can't cast spells with the chosen name (as long as this creature is on the battlefield). \ Pursuant to subsection 3.1(4) of Richard's Rules of Order, at the beginning of the upkeep of each participant in this game of the Magic: The Gathering(R) trading card game (hereafter known as "PLAYER"), that PLAYER performs all actions in the sequence of previously added actions (hereafter known as "ACTION QUEUE"), in the order those actions were added < 1550440259 235962 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote before finding 3 < 1550440259 963988 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1331) ...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550440276 718990 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote before reaching 3 < 1550440277 509335 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1332) Anyway, you know yesterday I had a program which lists primes which ran out of memory before reaching 3? < 1550440281 386285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first hit there is reminder text, the secondd surely has to be an uncard (and isn't reminder text) < 1550440289 320176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn < 1550440295 782720 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure both of these are necessary < 1550440303 581920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the latter one < 1550440328 497912 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shachaf added the first one < 1550440334 977966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? delquote < 1550440336 194225 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :delquote? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550440336 438389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rmquote < 1550440337 627342 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmquote? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550440337 777665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quote < 1550440339 17368 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. < 1550440342 65348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ddb < 1550440343 205396 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddb? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550440344 199955 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? qdb < 1550440345 394148 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat < 1550440350 689588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 1332 < 1550440352 537571 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* Anyway, you know yesterday I had a program which lists primes which ran out of memory before reaching 3? < 1550440623 332462 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a lot of fun with that dumb idea < 1550440644 189656 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow I'll try to finish my previous dumb idea, a brainfuck interpreter written in jq < 1550440753 647282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's jq? < 1550440863 514909 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, a command line tool to query json. < 1550441029 652880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this one of those "accidentally Turing-complete" situations? < 1550441067 204131 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550441350 997540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. dumb question. if I'm mindslaving my opponent, and I'm casting Evangelize (through Vedalken Orrery), then am I required to choose Standard Bearer as the target for the Evangelize? < 1550441429 519972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :601.2c doesn't even mention the case of spells like Arena or Evangelize that I was talking earlier, which make another player than the caster choose targets during casting a spell < 1550441442 301037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; you're making decisions for your opponent, and your opponent wouldn't be constrained in making them < 1550441445 452325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an interesting semantic point < 1550441478 97356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Standard Bearer < 1550441478 780669 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard Bearer \ 1W \ Creature -- Human Flagbearer \ 1/1 \ While choosing targets as part of casting a spell or activating an ability, your opponents must choose at least one Flagbearer on the battlefield if able. \ AP-C < 1550441513 59451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1550441521 712405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the current oracle text < 1550441530 881698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current rules text is: While an opponent is choosing targets as part of casting a spell they control or activating an ability they control, that player must choose at least one Flagbearer on the battlefield if able. < 1550441556 127486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it got oracled to solve the problem < 1550441561 135890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550441570 992596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading that current oracle text and asked the question after that < 1550441573 563172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a problem < 1550441593 571716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have realized I shouldn't ask card-by-name for this, because I knew this got lots of erratas < 1550441603 493404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, evangelize is a spell you control < 1550441624 787648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and the opponent controls the flagbearer in this situation < 1550441756 640575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M:tG's rules probably don't work < 1550441773 345741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they work well enough when people aren't intentionally setting up ridiculous situations < 1550441777 520289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Dominating Licid < 1550441778 206008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dominating Licid \ 1UU \ Creature -- Licid \ 1/1 \ {1}{U}{U}, {T}: Dominating Licid loses this ability and becomes an Aura enchantment with enchant creature. Attach it to target creature. You may pay {U} to end this effect. \ You control enchanted creature. \ EX-R < 1550441806 761124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that card didn't work at all for quite a while (due to layers issues), there was something of a community protest asking for errata or rules changes to make it work again < 1550441810 215849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not only that, I think you can make houserules that make them work and that are close enough to M:tG rules that the difference won't come up in real games < 1550441824 886186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually it happened, before then there were ruling saying that it worked but not explaining why < 1550441881 975286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how linked abilities work, there are several reasonable ways they could be fixed, and I should probably ask the knowledgable people (judges) on scryfall how they work < 1550441938 225809 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: jq has enough in it that it's almost certainly TC < 1550442022 518806 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like, not by half measures < 1550442046 923122 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something Underload-like would probably be easier to implement in it than BF < 1550442132 197475 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I ought to sleep < 1550442132 884909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do Cyclic Tag or The Waterfall Model, we have easier languages than BF nowadays :-) < 1550442228 500186 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they're harder to show off to people outside this channel < 1550442235 576902 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION away < 1550442323 947941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want achievements that you can put on your cv? < 1550442330 403314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and I go to all this trouble writing a tutorial and interactive interpreter and optimizing interpreter for The Waterfall Model precisely so that I can show it off to people outside the channel… < 1550442812 229564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1550442835 112214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -n '^601\.2d' share/mtg/rules.txt < 1550442835 805215 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2069:601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division. Each of these targets must receive at least one of whatever is being divided. < 1550442893 110925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still a rule in un-land? You can't The Ultimate Nightmare half a damage into a creature? < 1550443009 559074 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1550443082 246644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, that applies only to spells. afaik there's no such rule for combat damage, a Gorgon can kill blocked creatures with half a damage each < 1550444165 65108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even so sure the Un-cards rules are all as well defined anyways, but I might assume that rule 601.2d still applies with a minimum of 1 (but that unlike normal game you can still do one and a half) < 1550444182 708896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that, yes for combat damage rule 601.2d is not applicable < 1550444478 333379 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550444676 10417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the rules for some un-cards are definitely not well-defined. but the un-rule that doesn't require any cards, which allows half-integers as numbers, I think that one is definable, and there are also a lot of un-cards that are easy to support because they don't do anything really rule-breaking < 1550444714 668611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean supportable comp-rules-wise obviously, not that they should be allowed in a tournament or make a pleasant game < 1550444731 76871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1550444736 182032 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdsflwwjzquatnuc JOIN :#esoteric < 1550444748 909133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are some problems with the half-integer rule too < 1550444769 158262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few places where you're required to round to an integer, and that definitely mustn't be done the way MaRo says it should be done < 1550444774 258353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :his un-rules are just bullshit < 1550444783 582044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's not the rules manager, he's only the un-rules manager < 1550444854 821121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree with those stuff < 1550444867 614614 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct about those stuff < 1550444882 662170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there has to be a house rule that you round down in those cases < 1550444949 652656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Disciple of the Phenax < 1550444950 363705 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550444976 617676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Disciple of Phenax < 1550444977 310034 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disciple of Phenax \ 2BB \ Creature -- Human Cleric \ 1/3 \ When Disciple of Phenax enters the battlefield, target player reveals a number of cards from their hand equal to your devotion to black. You choose one of them. That player discards that card. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to black.) \ THS-C < 1550444994 797185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of my Un-cards won't work for some reason, too. < 1550445123 453008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. if you have a Little Girl, you can have a non-integer devotion to white; then if you play Disciple of Phenax with Sleight of Mind to change "black" to "white" in it, you'll have to round that devotion to an integer < 1550445174 867566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a more convincing example somewhere, since Little Girl is silver-bordered, and it's not even clear how devotion is defined < 1550445199 979763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it still counts the symbol for half a mana as one mana symbol < 1550445201 966940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that. But, in that case you have to reveal half of a card < 1550445222 60290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how a hybrid or phyrexian mana symbol still counts as one < 1550445246 559283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, although those are a full mana of that color, not only half of a mana < 1550445281 879005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Grisly Spectacle < 1550445282 629067 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grisly Spectacle \ 2BB \ Instant \ Destroy target nonartifact creature. Its controller puts a number of cards equal to that creature's power from the top of their library into their graveyard. \ GTC-C, MM3-C, IMA-C, DDM-C < 1550445312 808152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's a bit better, though we still have to find a way to give a creature non-integer power with the un-rule but without a silver-bordered card < 1550445335 47991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure that's possible < 1550445448 940311 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe with X spells it might be? < 1550445488 317494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, cast Mind Spring with X set to half < 1550445514 608456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a nice enough example for some reason < 1550445557 402249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be deliberately doing that, and while there could be good reasons, e.g. because some counterspells care about the cmc of the spell and for an X spell the chosen value of X changes that, it's still a bit artificial < 1550445604 703237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dealing with a fractional number of cards is difficult, but dealing with a fractional number of counters seems like more possible to implement. < 1550445633 528801 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550445667 184861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1550445677 381216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cars-by-name Consume Spirit < 1550445677 963540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cars-by-name: not found < 1550445680 323546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1550445700 469051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Damnable Pact < 1550445701 276083 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnable Pact \ XBB \ Sorcery \ Target player draws X cards and loses X life. \ DTK-R, C17-R < 1550445740 423288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ you may want the opponent lose half a life, since there are other cases when you deal a non-integer amount of damage to them, e.g. when you attack with a deathtouch trample creature < 1550445757 202823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to round down the number of cards they draw < 1550445791 349514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd have to spend the other half mana to another X spell < 1550445799 336343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too likely to come up, but it's convincing enough for me < 1550445821 113705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, that's more tricky, you have to think whether you want to allow half a +1/+1 counter or half a poison counter < 1550445845 997182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think half of a +1/+1 counter or half of a poison counter will work fine if the rules allow it. < 1550445879 683619 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with infect and wither being out there < 1550445947 100640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1550445953 420889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name swans of bryn argoll < 1550445954 81817 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swans of Bryn Argoll \ 2(w/u)(w/u) \ Creature -- Bird Spirit \ 4/3 \ Flying \ If a source would deal damage to Swans of Bryn Argoll, prevent that damage. The source's controller draws cards equal to the damage prevented this way. \ SHM-R, MM2-R < 1550445963 433063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't have forgotten about that one < 1550445970 126002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most obvious way when this can come pu < 1550445984 349669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have a gorgon deal half a damage to a blocking Swan < 1550446006 755077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the remaining half, after it deals half to a creature that doesn't prevent it, that is < 1550446049 817001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of my Un-cards use numbers other than integers and one half, such as "Math Wizard") < 1550446105 44129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Math Wizard? < 1550446109 533409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your un-cards < 1550446113 757715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1550446216 99539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Infinity Elemental, an un-card from Unstable, also uses a number other than half-integers < 1550446225 165728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rules have some trouble supporting that one < 1550446248 767981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one don't know how to suppor that consistently, and just chalk it down to an un-card that would never really work with the rules < 1550446322 448886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, some Un-cards won't work so well (and some of mine work even less well than that, although some can work) < 1550446445 289350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some technically can work, although are unlikely to do much. But, Archaic Tome works as badly like R&D's Secret Lair, I think. < 1550446572 569620 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them work differently now (or no longer work) due to rule changes (Homarid Confusion Chamber) or Un-cards rules changes (Death Smith). < 1550446636 340793 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550446709 902500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheel of Hand-cutting works, although the reminder text is wrong (but can be ignored). < 1550446870 847194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Unhinged, the best un-set, has cards that work just fine with the comp-rules without any modification, they're just un-cards for reasons other than that. examples are Johnny, Combo Player; Mise; Togglodyte; Utabi Kong. Even Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug could work fine if its text was errataed to say what it wants to say. Who would be easy to fix. < 1550446876 153079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :drat < 1550446947 467069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true some are work with ordinary rules < 1550447035 66042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drat was that the bulb in the ceiling lamp burned out. and that realized what I wanted to ask ais < 1550447088 299484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Irrational Zappers (another of my Un-cards) also uses numbers other than integers and half) < 1550447188 998699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02.html#l2lb < 1550447311 250045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, last time we talked about words like "divisor" and "quotient" and "factor" and "product", so now I was asking about what words there are like "addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, conjunction, disjunction" < 1550447336 771235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in particular how you'd call a min or max operation < 1550447399 142787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tried to come up with possible new terms like "contraction, extension" for min and max, "masonry, carpentry" for floor and ceil. < 1550447428 445193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: for min, I sometimes use "cap" / "cap at" / "capping" < 1550447437 793662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's what it does if you see it as asymmetrical < 1550447438 998809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that could work, yes < 1550447454 32839 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... some things called min are assymetrical, yes < 1550447466 872705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the symmetrical ones, but programming languages and cpus prefer the assymetrical ones < 1550447477 15381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, + and × are being seen as asymmetrical with this terminology < 1550447481 821899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really consider NaN behaviour to be relevant < 1550447487 837089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other asymmetrical cases for min/max? < 1550447504 264329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but you have to be careful what you mean by nan behavior < 1550447513 369104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with min/max, it's not just what nan representation you get as the result < 1550447533 445103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whether you get the NaN at all or the other operand < 1550447534 26099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that in some cases min(nan, 2.0) is 2.0 but min(2.0, nan) is nan < 1550447551 290236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or backwards < 1550447556 641316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consistent behaviour would be to output the NaN you were given as argument, when you were given exactly one NaN, but that's inefficient < 1550447565 642675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of assymetry is painful, but it's specifically what some of the definitions require or what cpus implement < 1550447599 76087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you could have more than one nice behavior, and one of them is that of the C fmin/fmax functions, which returns the other argument if one of them is a nan < 1550447602 84734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most definitions of min don't take into account the possibility that !(a < b) and !(a > b) don't necessarily together imply a == b < 1550447624 247866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does <=> do with NaN? < 1550447647 702532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, they're assymetric for that too, min(0.0, -0.0) can be different from min(-0.0, 0.0) < 1550447658 237388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact will be different in the cpu operation < 1550447662 605861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fuck you sse < 1550447682 879762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot about -0 < 1550447685 987785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, -0 == 0 < 1550447692 495699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, they are equal < 1550447696 522333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not the /same/, despite being equal < 1550447698 583006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you get an assymetric operation < 1550447705 397135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-commutative one that is < 1550447719 880094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is -(0.0) actually negative zero? or is it positive zero? < 1550447728 68848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that depends on the programming language actually < 1550447740 839196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc in perl it's positive zero, in C it's negative zero, or something like that < 1550447747 720859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I know the full ruels < 1550447754 760867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not the point here < 1550447763 970246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a negative zero in other ways < 1550447774 458136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without copysign < 1550447775 169392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I was just complaining at the -0.0 notation :-) < 1550447789 873636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, copysign is bizarre as a primitive < 1550447802 761069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few other functions would take a boolean input using the sign bit of a flota < 1550447804 826111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*float < 1550447808 564203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and negative zeroes matter because when you divide one by them, the sign becomes apparent < 1550447814 842443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless copysign is capable of copying signs other than negative and positive? < 1550447819 495366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? that's not true < 1550447842 91214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :several x86 vector operations specifically dispatch by the top bit of each part of the register < 1550447846 865798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that do conditional stuff < 1550447849 832986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript has a Object.is() function to compare negative with positive zero < 1550447855 646666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Perl does. < 1550447856 333238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that top bit is also the sign of the float < 1550447865 822690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is it possible to have multiple different positive zeroes in JavaScript? < 1550447881 430334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem with perl is that it's older than people have figured out that they want ieee floats, so it doesn't really suppor them properly < 1550447889 87906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like old programming langugaes < 1550447895 866439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Object.is(new Number(0), new Number(0)) < 1550447896 754789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can have positive zero as a bigint, but other than that I think not. < 1550447897 335190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1550447897 580379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1550447897 656343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘Object.is’ < 1550447897 656383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : No module named ‘Object’ is imported. < 1550447912 750895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you have an integer versus a float zero? < 1550447918 754677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That creates two separate objects representing the number zero, not the number value itself. < 1550447928 731370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my new Number(0) objects don't even compare equal via == < 1550447938 178882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do appear to do arithmetic correctly < 1550447939 8408 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes. An integer zero is 0n, but a float zero is just 0 < 1550447959 112947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time I think I'm beginning to understand JavaScript, it turns out I'm wrong < 1550447965 31624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :khehe < 1550447967 926291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, because you are comparing objects; when comparing objects == checks if it is the same object same like === < 1550447985 317377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this channel has some other people who think they understand javascript, are they of any help? < 1550448002 953638 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1550448012 767088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am I think I understand JavaScript, I think < 1550448044 373177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I had to learn how JavaScript OO worked to write the The Waterfall Model interpreter < 1550448045 854779 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550448053 203027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1550448062 413253 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1550448067 632819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to understand when you realise that x.prototype does not, despite appearances, give you access to the prototype of x < 1550448071 59443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just avoid the eso parts of javascript when you wrote code? < 1550448078 669725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to do it properly < 1550448084 435840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1550448087 491026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was the sort of project where OO was helpful anyway < 1550448088 331656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1550448097 328995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of in the same situation about ruby < 1550448101 164958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up trying to understand it now < 1550448110 132542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.prototype accesses the prototype of new objects constructed using the function x. To get the prototype of x itself, you must use Object.getPrototypeOf(x) instead. < 1550448114 97362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550448120 965542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby 1.8 has the advantage that it has a very easy to read only implementation < 1550448129 414003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that language is crazy < 1550448142 823234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if it's crazier than javascript or not, because I know too little about javascript < 1550448145 953694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's crazy enough < 1550448163 138845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript is more hurried than crazy < 1550448184 207704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's crazy because of the object model too, the basis it's built over, not just because of something in the library < 1550448184 939316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally written in a ridiculously short space of time to meet a deaddline < 1550448191 307068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For C: "An implementation may give zero -- a sign, or may leave [it] unsigned. Wherever such values are unsigned, any requirements -- to retrieve the sign shall produce an unspecified sign, and any requirement to set the sign shall be ignored." "On implementations that represent a signed zero but do not treat negative zero consistently in arithmetic operations, the `copysign` functions regard the sign of < 1550448197 270339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero as positive." < 1550448204 121556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS's object model is unusual but not unforgivable, although it would do with better terminology < 1550448222 531604 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550448223 935812 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550448228 250693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess copysign has two purposes: to extract a sign, and to set a sign < 1550448228 457556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but these days we have ieee floats almost everywhere < 1550448233 545006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both got merged into a single function < 1550448238 513121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wanted to ask < 1550448260 770636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did smalltalk originally call methods "method", or did the "method" name got popularized later, like with java or something? < 1550448279 699163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering because of the "subprogram, procedure, subroutine, function, method" synonym thing < 1550448307 822100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I should be able to answer that myself < 1550448322 964295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the scanned original smalltalk book on my hard drive < 1550448329 235236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(got it from the internet) < 1550448335 599856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't Smalltallk generally use the word "message"? < 1550448352 471384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been learning Smalltalk again recently for work, because I wanted a mathematical model of OO languages < 1550448373 496592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been basically developing a semantics of Smalltalk, because in every case where Java doesn't work like Smalltalk, I wish (for the purpose of proving things about it) it did < 1550448396 418601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might also use the word "method" as well, in the sense that a method is the thing that is activated when an object gets a message. < 1550448408 211462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I still think that merging the program and interpreter was an incredibly bad move and is the reason that Smalltalk never caught on < 1550448419 240962 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least OASYS calls all of the functions "methods", although all of them (other than the init method) must be called on an object, but it doesn't care what class of the object; the same methods are used for all classes. So, it look like unusual that they call it "method" if it is the same for all objects, to me. < 1550448458 402509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C got the "message" word from Smalltalk, I think. < 1550448462 56146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think that having no compile-time type checking is a mistake < 1550448465 590931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it's the obvious word to use < 1550448481 257489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: apparently they're called both "method" and "message", < 1550448487 903955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the prototype inheritance in JavaScript is good, even though, some people don't like it < 1550448491 650620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"method" on the side of the class that defines them, "message" when you call them < 1550448502 819467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like how some people use "parameter" vs "argument" < 1550448535 619918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but my question was more about the history, not what the terminology is now < 1550448553 232017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait what? < 1550448563 932110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you're not, like, making feather for work, are you? < 1550448571 728459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't worry < 1550448576 900446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good] < 1550448590 460531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's correct, yes < 1550448598 479596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've put up with the weirdnesses of Java for this long, the points over Smalltalk that make it worse than Feather don't really bother me in comparison < 1550448643 949355 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: merging the program and interpreter => do you mean merging the interpreter with the integrated development environment? because APL did that and got popular. admittedly that was in the dark ages. < 1550448670 309406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C standard uses the parameter/argument words that way, though also has "actual parameter" as a deprecated synonym for "argument", i.e., an "expression in the comma-separated list bounded by the parentheses in a function call expression" (or the equivalent for a function-like macro). < 1550448698 459533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, in most Smalltalk interpretations, you start with a running interpreter/IDE that's basically set up to be a debugger on itself, and you write the program by editing it in-place < 1550448708 836040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Likewise, "formal argument" is mentioned as a deprecated synonym for "parameter", the other thing.) < 1550448712 895077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C have a word for the K&R style parameter type declarations? < 1550448723 401742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :k&r style is tg < 1550448738 352595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right. but isn't that sort of an optional part of smalltalk, in that you can have a modern implementation that doesn't do that? < 1550448742 566837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, if you stuck to writing things that were clearly separable from the existing interpreter, you coul distinguish them < 1550448757 720177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the designers of Smalltalk apparently don't think so; I hope they are incorrect, though < 1550448769 249304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you do want to have an interactive debugger, then it would become part of the program, like it does with perl or lua or ruby, < 1550448779 52819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1550448798 868065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to choose to not have an interactive debugger at all < 1550448834 845857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The whole set of them is called "a declaration list", though that's obviously meaningful only if you already have a function definition as the context. < 1550448838 470247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that kind of build in APL or smalltalk stopped spreading when the unix philosophy of files and toolboxes took over < 1550448856 90988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's obviously some inertia, but still < 1550448868 454848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the declarator includes an identifier list [i.e., the list of parameters without types], the types of the parameters shall be declared in a following declaration list." < 1550448917 959136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what actually happened, AFAICT, is that Smalltalk continued to be spread like that but ended up dying out as a result < 1550448936 766997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people rightfully rejected the approach < 1550448968 872557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one example in the C99 rationale of a function that can only be defined in the K&R style: `int f(arr, len) size_t len; int arr[len]; { ... }` < 1550448990 141439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but in that case we have to consider why APL didn't die out, and perhaps also prolog < 1550449035 247173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, I think even lisp counts < 1550449037 655974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't write `int f(int arr[len], size_t len) { ... }` because `len` isn't in scope for the variable-length array. Or... well, in *that* case it could be declared just as a pointer. So maybe it was `int (*arr)[len]` instead in the example. < 1550449040 959842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most major Prologs nowadays work by having a program that's used to initialise an interactive interpreter with definitions < 1550449043 948808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then before unix and operating systems, every programming language was like that < 1550449064 641349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you develop a Prolog program within the interpreter rather than outside, you can do a simple `listing.` and get an output showing you the program that you wrote < 1550449081 691274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a gcc extension that lets you do that, I think < 1550449101 708670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe `int f(size_t len; int arr[len], size_t len) { … }` < 1550449106 887581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not because APLs changed: J is still sort of old style in that the interpreter tries to be primarily an intercative development environment, though at least it reads and writes OS files, including scripts from them < 1550449141 207658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the example was: `void f(double a[*][*], int n); void f(a, n) int n; double a[n][n]; { /* ... */ }` < 1550449156 816219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, matlab and maple and mathematica also primarily want to work that way, and I think mathematica got popular late enough that it can't even use history as an excuse < 1550449174 545169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch < 1550449200 73390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's actually a gcc extension for that sort of function < 1550449204 455897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was < 1550449244 594217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There was considerable debate about whether to maintain the current lexical ordering rules for variable length array parameters in function definitions. -- The possibility of allowing the scope of parameter `n` to extend to the beginning of the parameter-type-list was explored (relaxed lexical ordering), which would allow the size of parameter `a` to be defined in terms of parameter `n`, and could help < 1550449250 585056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert a Fortran library routine into a C function. Such a change to the lexical ordering rules is not considered to be in the 'Spirit of C,' however. This is an unforeseen side effect of Standard C prototype syntax." < 1550449291 305640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've uppercased "Spirit" in the original, which makes me think of it as some sort of conscious personification thing. < 1550449291 352374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i void f(int a[static 2], int b[a[0]][a[1]]) < 1550449492 69949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, the thing I wrote is valid C < 1550449528 903848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's valid even without the static. < 1550449555 114570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot you could have arbitrary expressions in there. < 1550449557 613598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean "accepted by my compiler" valid, or proper valid? Because I don't think it is. < 1550449559 581632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the i,i a syntax error? < 1550449576 378257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it is. < 1550449576 604564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i was metasyntax < 1550449582 421508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonky, though. < 1550449592 106774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's accepted by a compiler but I also think it's valid. < 1550449602 626700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it not be? < 1550449608 331912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I didn't think far enough. < 1550449616 45854 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in that case, are you planning to implement a new OO language that takes the good ideas from smalltalk, but not the ditstribution model? < 1550449631 276870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some but not all of the forth interpreters are distributed in that bad way I think < 1550449638 844782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right now I can't do that for the same reason I don't work on ayacc < 1550449639 898787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `a[0]` part is just documentative, but sure. < 1550449647 993791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the a[1] part? < 1550449657 231352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that part's actually meaningful. < 1550449663 425393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? can't you just make such a language for work? < 1550449665 230418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have it backwards? < 1550449666 803073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's equivalent to `int (*b)[a[1]]`. < 1550449698 522026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you said you learned the semantics of smalltalk for work < 1550449716 251055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I can't type "smalltalk". my fingers keep typing "smallk" and then I have to backspace) < 1550449764 405058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever get to do that, I hope it won't turn to ruby < 1550449795 43760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, it's not something that I've been asked to do, but it's obviously connected, so work would end up owning the copyright to it despite likely not having much use for it < 1550449804 32075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the resulting languages would be somewhat wasted, probably < 1550449807 365103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see] < 1550449819 388362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe not directly, I could probably buy the rights for it off them, but it'd be way more bother than it's worth) < 1550449834 394101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, right. < 1550449858 280063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So all the sizes except the *first* one are used. < 1550449866 744274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, rust seems to reflect a few of the things that I don't like in ruby, like how the name resolution rules are sometimes really weird just to make the syntax seem a bit nicer for the common cases < 1550449871 867820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I thought it was the last one. < 1550449872 361713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is much worse though, mind you < 1550449882 864737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: didn't Rust change the name resolution rules recently? < 1550449891 619126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if you dislike the old ones or the new ones or both < 1550449891 886107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there was a little change, yes < 1550449906 385606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the remark applies both before and after < 1550450665 787024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550451013 53020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` allquotes | tail -2 < 1550451013 810325 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1330) I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayacc harder to sue \ 1331) ...this is the first prime number finder I've ever written which ran out of memory before finding 3 < 1550451040 839670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it was removed again < 1550451553 221781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550451606 381003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1550451613 965314 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:stume//A stume cowears and goatears you. That is the main reason why the often look so ackward. \ me//Me is a proud member of the tEaM. \ rum//The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat \ accusative//Only evil people use the accusative. \ swedish//Swedish is the language of fine cuisine. < 1550451637 982757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget rum < 1550451639 493618 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1550451649 630370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: rum hth < 1550451924 946025 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550451957 643685 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550451979 480449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I removed the quote I added < 1550451998 992863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1550452000 674194 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:422) cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. \ 1109) zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: I need the stats for the small leech, not the big one. So, if you write it on here while I am gone then when I return I will check.] \ 822) my current laptop basically works though it can even play 8 < 1550452001 802623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1550452002 570809 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game \ 647) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. \ 240) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1550453646 670641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I remember this one http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/ccache.png < 1550453666 312282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a fun lesson about computer architecture < 1550454041 914375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Prolog or some other logic language express recursion in terms of unification somehow? < 1550454115 65965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I tried «A = f(A)» in GNU Prolog, it apparently constructed the resulting infinite term correctly but was unable to print it < 1550454197 982489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm wondering about writing recursive rules without explicit recursion using this kind of trick. < 1550454222 922223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't there a specific library function that can print such things? hmm, let me check < 1550454240 136256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, to do that you'd have to /assert/ such a term, let me try that < 1550454267 360030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently attempting to do so sent the Prolog interpreter into an infinite loop < 1550454349 493384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1550454354 862702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have to assert such a term? < 1550454368 983294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just A = f(A), write_foo(A) < 1550454386 836206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in order to do a recursive calculation < 1550454389 863531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be such a library function though < 1550454394 750409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in gnu prolog < 1550454402 936661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use a non-recursive predicate to inspect more than a finite number of nesting levels of a term < 1550454418 719213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's looking for a way to lift the recursive term to a recursive computation < 1550454436 217642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way I could think of to do that was to assert one, but GNU Prolog doesn't seem to like that. < 1550454441 355003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1550454479 257967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here it is < 1550454524 683830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in SWI prolog, http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=termrw says that write_term(A, [cycles(true)]) should write it in a finite representation < 1550454567 396915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that write_term(A, [max_depth(10)]) will print a truncated representation < 1550454598 999780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a simple word for "all except the first", e.g. in the context of iterations of a loop? I guess maybe "subsequent" sort of works. < 1550454647 232664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think "subsequent" during any particular iteration would mean all the rest, but before the first iteration it could be ambiguous. < 1550454650 168193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"subsequent" works if you used "first" earlier < 1550454682 926723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious about the context of this because I was trying to figure out a style of loop a while ago. < 1550454725 239554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, are you sure in that thing? < 1550454726 821880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550454774 788166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A = A + 1, B is A." got me a segfault < 1550454788 150883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg < 1550454790 648219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess isn't particularly surprising < 1550454792 261006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that should happen < 1550454798 305780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you're doing something right when you segfault the interpreter. < 1550454801 884155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1550454805 616282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is in fact a recursive calculation done entirely using unifications, though < 1550454806 404860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an out of memory < 1550454808 420102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be fine < 1550454813 691726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a stack overflow < 1550454821 548944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550454872 542792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's possible to translate untyped lambda calculus with just common prolog stuff and copy_term, so can't you use that to write recusion using a Y combinator? < 1550454876 198906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbounded recursion should probably be illegal. < 1550454883 356405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's cheating, though, because 'is' is recursive internally < 1550454913 152093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have one of those range-based for loops, and I needed to do something at the start of all but the first iteration, so I was contemplating doing something like http://ix.io/1Bll/cpp for it. < 1550454915 247270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is why when I'm emperor I'll ban both Java and recursion So all stack traces will be short < 1550454916 590610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how do you translate \x.x(1)? < 1550454940 561567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you able to do it at all but the last iteration instead? < 1550454948 893203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you need a special case for when the range has zero elements? for that sort of thing, you normally do < 1550454951 714657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me look up the docs of olvashato, that's where I figured out the translation (actually slightly before I made olvashato, but I used it there and documented it) < 1550454953 532012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should say why I'm asking. < 1550454967 517041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a very common pattern which is awkward to express in most languages. < 1550454983 149460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you're iterating over an array, say, but you want to do something for each index and each element. < 1550454988 369492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but the special case is entirely different, so I just have that as an if (thing.empty()) before. < 1550454996 437392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the most common place this comes up for me is when you're trying to implement "join" (i.e. join one string using another string) with iterative code < 1550455006 456612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An n-element array has n+1 indices, so it's awkward. < 1550455019 727561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to add the separator either before every element but the first, or after every element but the last < 1550455046 213491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's a little different because you don't want to do either the first or the last. But it's related. < 1550455092 953466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a non-array: How would you write code to insert into a prefix tree? < 1550455095 740657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :example < 1550455129 963822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally when working with trees I use recursion < 1550455141 283009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you have struct Node { struct Node *next[256]; bool end; };, and you want to write insert: void insert_node(struct Node **n, const unsigned char *s); < 1550455151 799784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion runs into the same-ish issue. < 1550455163 468348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually wrote this code for NH4 a while back < 1550455166 179837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tail recursion anyway so it's kind of silly. < 1550455185 830980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (\x.(x 1)) translates to fun(X, R, (copy_term(X, fun(1, R, B)), B)) < 1550455199 856318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go: http://nethack4.org/latest/nethack4/libnethack_common/src/trietable.c < 1550455214 817414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Olvashat%C3%B3#Prolog_output < 1550455215 435197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An empty tree is represented as a null pointer, by the way. < 1550455217 776474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't appear to be any special case < 1550455251 652339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I guess the "if (key == 0)" case is the special case you're thinking of? < 1550455260 510749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so. < 1550455276 718417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wrote it iteratively instead of recursively it would be clearer. < 1550455346 8625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :void insert_node(struct Node **n, const unsigned char *s) { for (; ; s++) { if (!*n) *n = new_node; if (!*s) break; n = &(*n)->next[*s]; } (*n)->end = true; } < 1550455388 129066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.olv compiled to http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.pl is actually an example that does recursion that way: the implementation of the loop function doesn't name the loop function itself < 1550455397 58928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to run the thing before the break n+1 times and the thing after the break n times. < 1550455414 729486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, so what you're doing is using a single predicate that holds the implementation of all the lambdas? < 1550455426 105871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1550455441 338105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the implementation of the lambda is in the term that represents the lambda itself < 1550455446 647672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can call it from any predicate < 1550455479 769610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a different example, prefix sum: < 1550455480 793345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vec prefix_sum(vec a) { vec b; int sum = 0; for (auto it = a.begin(); ; ++it) { b.push_back(sum); if (it == a.end()) break; sum += *it; } return b; } < 1550455481 507413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a non-ground term < 1550455496 522238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a little too awkward for IRC one-liners, I think. < 1550455528 593686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, I see, you have unbound variables sitting by themselves in predicate implementations < 1550455535 949776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the step that I didn't realise was possible < 1550455542 176145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm still not sure that's possible < 1550455545 893809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and I never bind them, I only bind copies made with copy_term < 1550455567 168035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A = write(6), A. < 1550455568 783852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1550455570 287602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1550455587 128387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's logical that that works, but I didn't expect it to < 1550455598 173613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am not quite sure, but I think historical prolog required you to write call(A) instead of A there < 1550455607 919010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all present prolog implementations seem to allow just A < 1550455624 671440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try A = write(6), call(A) if you prefer < 1550455637 51259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm happy when you include the eval statement < 1550455645 318367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have that I'm not surprised that lambda calculus exists < 1550455649 948903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this sort of "implicit eval" that bothers me < 1550455682 444341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out the general connection between trace(d monoidal categories) and fixed points, is the context of this Prolog thing. < 1550455686 818427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but prolog has several other builtins that take code predicates < 1550455737 736507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if maplist can be implemented without library functions < 1550455748 848039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing no, you need at least copy_term (or something else that can be used to simulate it) < 1550455840 541948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. (A,B) and (A;B) and (A->B;C) and once(A) and apply(A,L) and \+A and findall(P,A,L) each try to call A at least once < 1550455889 6194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ',' is really fundamental, isn't it? < 1550455919 936393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :';' can be implemented using two definitions for the same predicate < 1550455925 185938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, it might be because of its interaction with !, but without that I think it can be implemented < 1550455942 638521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can implement a new function that behaves just like , < 1550455947 560459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps some sort of continuation passing style would be possible to be able to do without ',', but you'd then need to rewrite every predicate to take a continuation argument < 1550455953 35572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in begin(A,B) :- A,B. < 1550455961 188436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, but that requires using ',' for the implementation < 1550455962 588526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can write begin(A,B) instead of (A,B) in programs < 1550455963 64487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are binary trees every a good idea, anyway? < 1550455973 130983 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can probably implement it using some other library function < 1550455973 507915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think they can be < 1550455990 867725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be an inefficient eso-implementation < 1550455996 463611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might break programs with ! < 1550455999 983679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you care about performance. < 1550456004 986321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got halfway through writing a generic tree library in Rust that can be used to implement arbitrary sorts of self-balancing (or not-so-self-balancing) trees < 1550456022 566235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh! I'm interested in that < 1550456027 988659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think some such structure is often going to be the best possibility for performance and a generic structure makes it easy to swap them out < 1550456034 912108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in that case, I'll let you know if I finish < 1550456042 159148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even remember why I stopped halfway through < 1550456044 279714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you almost always want a bigger branching factor than 2, don't you? < 1550456060 132255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only vaguely remember the original reason, which I think was to write a fast But Is It Art? interpreter < 1550456066 536198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, 2 is probably too small < 1550456069 854501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will it have both non-keyed trees, haskell Seq style, and keyed trees, Map style? < 1550456103 85713 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550456113 226086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's the notion of an "index" and elements in trees are always stored in index order, but it's possible that when you add a new element, all the existing indexes move to make room for it < 1550456129 216564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Map-style tree, the indexes are just the keys < 1550456139 743574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Seq-style tree, they could be, e.g., the equivalent of array indexes < 1550456162 586058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need different interfaces for the two cases, although a lot of code can be shared < 1550456170 874864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So comparison sorts may not be that great, because you usually have more information about your data than binary comparisons. < 1550456186 633392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is binary search similarly not that great? What are the alternatives? < 1550456235 298306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: things like Newton-Rahpson (I might have misspelled that) < 1550456290 6394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want something more general than array indexes, but sure < 1550456291 998707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you look at a small locality of the data, make a prediction about what function the data represents based on that, and then go directly to the entry that should contain the result if your prediction is correct < 1550456293 868539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds good < 1550456298 479967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, more general < 1550456304 206710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I meant for discrete, not a function, but that's an interesting analogy. < 1550456322 494658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know, a discrete example would presumably use similar techniques though < 1550456345 187717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of things like radix sort, which is a different kind of structure. < 1550456351 473008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and will this support both trees with in-place mutation, and pure functional trees with cow nodes Haskell style? < 1550456352 261792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, your prediction normally isn't 100% correct but the idea is to get closer to your target than a binary search would, and also /realise/ you're closer to the target (so that you don't move massively far away with the next check) < 1550456359 772547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of differentiable structure can you put on typical data? < 1550456372 436915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: definitely < 1550456375 111980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1550456376 6888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's that "learned index structure" paper. < 1550456378 497252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting working copy-on-write was part of my motivation for this < 1550456402 966262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you be using some Haskell libraries as a reference to get the implementation right? < 1550456406 633229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that book < 1550456421 679918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, I'm using some academic papers, and a core structure that's hopefully simple enough that it's obviously correct < 1550456425 178563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Okasaki book < 1550456442 539828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the Okasaki book is close enough to an academic paper, but sure < 1550456458 371518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one found that it's the one that explained how red-black trees work the best < 1550456472 383378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are fully persistent data structures even good twh < 1550456514 205578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for some things, yes. < 1550456526 125363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. you might want to store all intermediate states of a computer game < 1550456538 489318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want to store intermediate states you don't need full persistence. < 1550456554 81493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm planning to implement it as 2-3-4 rather than red-black because they're equivalent and 2-3-4 fits into the general structure better < 1550456555 2215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need it if you want to be able to fork a past state, or something. < 1550456556 179779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to store them shared, rather than writing a full copy in each step < 1550456571 853490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might end up slower, though, despite being identically shaped < 1550456579 654783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want this if you want to step both backwards and forwards when reviewing the game < 1550456585 664143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only want to step forwards, then it's easier < 1550456591 954139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for BIIA? I'll presumably be forking a lot < 1550456592 878902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I expect 2-3-4 trees to be faster than red-black trees? < 1550456612 816385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is BIIA? < 1550456615 761703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, is a 2-3-4 tree like a B tree? < 1550456625 430335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%3F < 1550456644 998707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's basically a tree where nodes are binary or have 3 or 4 children, nodes can change dynamically < 1550456651 872062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: If you just want fast snapshots you don't need to have a fully persistent structure. < 1550456655 778669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you want this, backtracking for a BIIA implementation < 1550456657 645618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just put a timestamp on each thing or something. < 1550456662 26271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though why you want a BIIA implementation is unclear to me < 1550456687 700741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so yes, it's literally a sort of B-tree < 1550456699 931066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why /wouldn't/ I want a BIIA? implementation? < 1550456717 207141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's an existing one, but it's hard to be confident that it works < 1550456718 648741 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdsflwwjzquatnuc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550456723 644635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I do more or less understand how B-trees work, though there's quite some freedom in them, they can be implemented in different ways < 1550456744 727017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red-black trees are a binary encoding of 2-4 B-trees. < 1550456754 267078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The red–black tree is then structurally equivalent to a B-tree of order 4, with a minimum fill factor of 33% of values per cluster with a maximum capacity of 3 values. < 1550456763 119778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary trees are scow. You gotta at least fill a cache line. < 1550456828 923730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have values on the nodes (which you should do, otherwise how else will you know which side of the tree to look in for the comparison), they might fill the cache line if the values are large enough < 1550456851 251733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, though often the values are just pointers. < 1550456930 605526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I had a fun realisation: the basic structure of a generalised search tree is that each node contains some number of values for use as comparison pivots, plus some number of pointers to child nodes; and the set of comparison pivots is itself a structure you wish to search in < 1550456956 209839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this being Rust, with zero-cost abstractions and all, you can simply use the search tree interface you're working on to be generic over how the set of pivots is implemented < 1550456986 174114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc it probably wouldn't in practice be another tree, but I see no reason to rule that possibility out; I'm putting the same interface on things like sorted vectors anyway < 1550457009 603612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a similar (?) realization recently. < 1550457024 968503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each level of a B+ tree is an index for searching the next level. < 1550457048 123135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, if you have a sorted array, you can make a B+-style index for the first few levels, which are small. < 1550457163 737101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you want a nice testcase for backtracking? https://www.komal.hu/forum?a=to&tid=76&st=50&dr=1&sp=77#17868 on the chessboard, you want to put as few walls, each between two side-adjacent squares, to make it so there's exactly one way to pave the board with four-square L-tetrominos < 1550457188 260126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that problem sounds painful to solve < 1550457190 700239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy version is to prove that the solution with the four walls shown on that image is correct, harder version is to find that solution < 1550457202 319246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sort of is, yes < 1550457211 865262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how backtracking would help to verify that a potential answer was correct (if perhaps not minimal) < 1550457214 196005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved the easy version with prolog once < 1550457238 580161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I need to remember to not attempt to read Hungarian when I see it < 1550457248 623761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person who found the solution said he wrote a program to test every four-wall solution < 1550457253 792391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of the words there appear to be loanwords so it's not totally fruitless < 1550457280 800030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can read them, the only spoilers are that (1) there's a four wall solution, which I told you, and (2) the image showing that solution, which is an image < 1550457296 480290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I can get an idea of the sense by looking for words that are similar to words I already know < 1550457298 640165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are also some worse solutions earlier, but I don't think they're not spoilers < 1550457317 847859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that works better in a well-written text than in an informal web forum < 1550457321 240813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, not because of spoilers, just because Hungarian's vocabulary doesn't have much in common with that of the European languages I know < 1550457353 495250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so trying to read it won't lead to much understanding < 1550457379 65229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if I see text in, say, Spanish or Italian, I can often make a decent guess at what it's saying despite not knowing the languages < 1550457382 126108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says though that the program ran too slow to test every four-wall solution < 1550457393 491565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he found a solution among the ones he tested < 1550457411 100063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprising to me that you only need four < 1550457422 619094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was surprising to us too < 1550457427 313823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess the walls are being brute-forced and backtracking is only being used for the wall placement < 1550457428 695542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to me at elast < 1550457434 805820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this seems like the sort of program on which you use a constraint solver < 1550457441 786354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a backtracking algorithm < 1550457469 84193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how we solved Polarium over on tasvideos.org, in the end; simply convert it into a boolean satisfaction problem and run it through a SAT solver < 1550457484 497860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the walls are brute-forced except you should use the symmetry of the board, and yes, I wrote it using a constraint solver, it seems to help, but it's probably still possible with a clever backtracking solver without constraint < 1550457495 127461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had the leading solution before that, based on first proving things about the problem, then using a backtracking algorithm through the possibilities that hadn't been proved impossible) < 1550457568 782583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarium... that's not the Game Boy puzzle game with the rotating gates and with blocks of various shapes pushed into holes, right? < 1550457577 608615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look up what it is < 1550457587 604473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's a DS puzzle game < 1550457594 90549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that one < 1550457619 693532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are as follows: you have a board made of squares, most are white or black, although there's a grey border around the edges; you may treat grey tiles as white or black, whichever works for your solution < 1550457642 17150 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550457657 93063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must draw a path made of squares, starting and ending anywhere on the board, which only moves orthogonally from one square to the next, and which doesn't use the same square twice < 1550457679 551773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for each horizontal line of squares, the path must either go through all the white squares on that line and no black squares, or else all the black squares on that line and no white squares < 1550457696 59963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550457781 871468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting late though, so good night < 1550457795 470268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-141.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550458134 814082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1550458729 836978 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am playing a roguelike game called "We are Hejickle", for NES/Famicom < 1550458850 98646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are runes that you cannot step on, but that your opponents can step on. There are also statues that you can see past but that nobody can step on. You cannot move diagonally but other people can. < 1550460782 259632 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imode.tech/projects/modal.html < 1550461944 89850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Callbacks are annoying for several reasons. One of them is that you can't early-exit from them. < 1550461956 56827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I shouldn't fizzie: that, I just saw my tab with the Subsequent code. < 1550461999 987917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still looking for the programming language thing akin to a lambda/block but that can't be stored and supports more operations. < 1550462012 373382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of hope the answer isn't "macro". < 1550462471 963284 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550463908 795512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by can't be stored? what sorts of operations? < 1550464231 295065 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550464595 351320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Early exit is the most obvious one. < 1550464621 133988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could still sort of implement that as setjmp/continuations/exceptions/whatever. < 1550464637 884252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly operations that don't make sense at runtime at all, like changing the things that are in scope for a block. < 1550464666 982422 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by the last one < 1550464772 415377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is something like, if "if"/"while"/etc. were user-defined, such that you'd want them to generate the same code they do in C or whatever, what would the type of their arguments be? < 1550464784 569382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, something like "using namespace", for instance. < 1550464810 566501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"using(foo) { BODY }", where everything in BODY automatically does lookups in the namespace foo. < 1550464821 944690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also other things that affect what's in scope. < 1550466733 374825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have also want that "if", "while", etc are implemented as macros actually; maybe even something else < 1550466771 768793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if not entirely defined as a macros, supporting a block code too somehow < 1550468635 99955 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550468903 469923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm those theorems for that single rotation CA actually do have simple proofs < 1550468962 261515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wasn't clear from the page whether e'd proved them logically or just enumerated all possibiliies. well at least the spaceship + single cell one.) < 1550469076 883144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu.*a < 1550469077 732935 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469083 81721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*a < 1550469083 798706 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fugal//Fugals are fictitious flower parts. < 1550469096 611136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*ia < 1550469097 454534 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469109 865782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom fu*a$ < 1550469110 632930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550469113 547281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1550469117 173986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1550469143 605745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be regex < 1550469197 149965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can people send commits to fshg directly instead of using HackEso twh < 1550469212 587534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a little contrary to the spirit of the thing. < 1550472244 482838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550474219 494870 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550474537 237391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like to put candles on the cake, but I prefer instead put the candles around it, and not making holes in it. But, many people like to make numbers, either put that many or use shapes of numbers. But, I thought another way can be, even if you have only straight candles, try to use roman numbers (although you might not know which way is forward, then, if placed on top of the cake instead of around) < 1550474546 400924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you will also need to get it to stand diagonally) < 1550474567 183586 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or horizontally, if it is forty or more) < 1550474863 445735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some kind of Magic: the Gathering: Counter target spell if it was not cast by an opponent. < 1550474992 924005 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about having 40 cakes < 1550475012 231613 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my birthday this week < 1550475018 919351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I have 31 cupcakes < 1550475120 177867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have forty small cakes, or enough storage room, then perhaps it might do (especially if not everyone want the same cake, you might have more than one kind) < 1550475167 407061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gregor < 1550475168 421383 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1550475171 168062 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I baked a chocolate cake on Saturday < 1550475176 278847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like "Manifest target spell" and/or "Counter target spell if it was not cast by an opponent"? < 1550475193 202131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think I will eat a bit more right now < 1550475203 610704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to manifest a spell < 1550475205 31496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo can i have some cake twh < 1550475216 901728 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1550475253 472047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Put it face-down in the battlefield. If it would be a creature when face-up, then it can be used like morph with their mana cost. < 1550475288 968237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you can get to SF before we eat it all < 1550475317 749076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all about baking now < 1550475401 320863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you all about baking before < 1550475440 43763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I can do two kinds of baking at the same time < 1550475454 476987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bake not lest ye be baked < 1550475504 31675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cathy made the frosting on this cake < 1550475509 268125 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Alyssa helped us eat it < 1550475513 751849 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was a team effort < 1550476853 184821 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550477020 91354 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550477480 325484 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550477639 991108 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550478436 635593 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550479797 694831 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 633 seconds < 1550480872 318552 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550480912 904817 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550481740 568137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550481806 759939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: roman numerals from straight candles => could work, but a drawback is that when you light the candles, the molten wax would definitely drop straight onto the cake. < 1550481868 750741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for that M:tG thing, the card Nix is somewhat close to that < 1550482063 218300 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious and standard way to make numbers out of candles is unary < 1550482080 532438 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with roman numerals is they aren't rotation invariant < 1550482100 571616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1550482126 973189 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would want a rotation invariant number system, perhaps a core regular polygon in the middle (triangle = 3, square = 4, ..) then some outer attachments < 1550482198 351191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: lottery balls and UNO cards are printed numbers in a rotation-invariant system, where the digit 6 is underlined < 1550482248 2442 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wuold be possible to use polygons as digits in a line, with the point upwards to indicate the direction < 1550482267 638916 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so triangle triangle square might mean 334 and it could be done in base 7 < 1550482309 693483 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or base 5 < 1550482489 36121 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if they're nested rather than arrayed in a line < 1550483187 229917 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483218 637433 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550483360 157829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know of Nix, and I also invented Phyrexian Nix. However, what I mentioned above is a bit more general < 1550483567 978369 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483669 818295 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550483771 757921 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550484503 384587 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550484751 635940 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550484909 671954 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550485016 352043 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550486380 428102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-30.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550487746 834227 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550490351 731795 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550490649 305137 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forty" is the only English name for a number whose letters are sorted alphabetically. < 1550491327 827693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550491472 834773 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550491472 916915 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550492249 729716 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550492717 941564 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550493739 62429 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drphdkkdzouvojbn JOIN :#esoteric < 1550494003 372085 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550494825 572561 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: are there other languages with a unique number with the corresponding property? < 1550494917 243460 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't know < 1550494960 876008 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "deux" in French < 1550494973 959905 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "cinq" is also in alphabetical order < 1550494995 104663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: do you want to be a ghost biopsy adept? < 1550495000 221947 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not unique < 1550495027 514767 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I don't think that'd be the right profession for me < 1550495055 78014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map sort ["ghost","biopsy","adept"] -- it felt right though < 1550495056 708553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ghost","biopsy","adept"] < 1550495118 627258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :German has three, as far as I can see. (eins, acht, elf) < 1550495125 127250 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you used "adept" < 1550495160 795028 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( almost below forty ) < 1550495334 363113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could be a loopy hippy(sic!). "knotty" is nice too. < 1550495368 305142 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map sort ["clobber", "disappear", "busted", "amylase"] -- let's just check that map sort works < 1550495370 61335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["bbcelor","aadeipprs","bdestu","aaelmsy"] < 1550495641 675048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dirty effort < 1550495666 745220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, that vocabulary doesn't look big enough for writing a novel :) < 1550495873 625468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls /usr/share/dict < 1550495874 287609 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550496228 938075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, you can't use "the" < 1550496350 252476 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A billowy abbess bhors my accent < 1550496561 752458 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dictionary says < 1550496563 197796 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :be am been is an in do for him it not as at by got go his know or 'em all best my no now any first how most begin city lost lot ably act add ago air allow almost art bit boy buy cos cost door foot guy hit low accept bill box cell cry deep effort fill film fit floor fly hi hot loss < 1550496571 226406 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :An almost empty bin < 1550496578 849948 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :access adopt ah aah aim below bet blow cent cop copy deny dry egg empty fix flow hill hmm hm host nor TV ad ally beer beg bell belt bent boot boss bow chill chip chop dirt dirty forty ghost hip ill joy < 1550496589 273366 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accent annoy ass ay bee beef belly boost chin cow deem deer dim dip dot ego fist fry glory glow hint hop inn knot loop opt ace ant apt aw ax berry buzz cosy defy den eh envy ex flu fort fox hiss < 1550496604 216974 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbey adept ail app beep beet bellow biopsy boo chilly clot coop cot DJ deft deity dent e.g. flop flux gin gloss glossy hippy hoop IQ ivy loot lorry moor mop mow MP oops pry abet abort abs affix aft airy allot alloy amp billow bin blot booty cello chi chimp coo co-opt coy CPU demo dew dill din eel elm err fin fir floppy GI hoot jot moot moss op ow < 1550496604 350926 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ox < 1550496625 165401 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those lists aren't truncated, they just look like that because words starting with letters late in the alphabet are very rare in them < 1550496634 635817 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ammo fills my chit < 1550496638 951131 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbot abhor accost ado aegis afoot ammo beefy befit bio biz bop bossy bot boxy cert choppy crux filly fizz floss foxy fuzz gill gilt gist git goo gory hilly hilt HQ imp loo mossy nosy tux abuzz adder aglow alms arty bevy bitty boor Celt chino chintz chow cloy coot dewy dint dis ditty divvy emu knotty loopy lop moo < 1550496646 991814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbess achy billowy chit choosy clop dory dotty filmy fop goop lox mot mu sty adz beery chippy dippy eff emo gimp gimpy glop guv abbe bey deist dhow ditz finny gloppy bloop blowy < 1550496782 350039 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"buy art for low cost now" < 1550496981 84251 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I add the list of such words up to TV to a wisdom? nah, probably no < 1550496981 435104 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :aegilops < 1550496994 724190 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have wisdom/ance and wisdom/can't for such lists < 1550497009 918620 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aegilops" would be a good name for an esolang < 1550497101 204840 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should figure out what the best collation order of the English alphabet is to get a nice vocabulary < 1550497169 5688 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 26! possible orderings < 1550497187 222476 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming we want to do this letterwise < 1550497192 738043 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [1..26] < 1550497194 494569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 403291461126605635584000000 < 1550497201 267839 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fairly sizeable number < 1550497227 107532 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sure < 1550497230 606040 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we can immediately rule out any word with a non-consecutibe repeated letter < 1550497403 556824 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: English mostly has short words, so those aren't too common: < 1550497405 55835 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :were that did hath knowingly known these canning better liking oneness otherness there thinking thought timeless wellness which willful willfully because before downed even evenly giving here lifeless lifelike little lesser manliness meanness needed needless needlessly newness people stillness tellingly through useful usefully usefulness useless wh < 1550497405 200955 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ere again against although though always American anything away become became < 1550497444 166585 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some plurals and other infections < 1550497455 455719 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that" sucks of course < 1550497556 259810 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't even the odds < 1550499600 760401 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure to get yclept in there < 1550500265 975124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofTechnique: unlikely to happen because 'y' is just too attractive to put near the end of the order. < 1550500332 807235 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's not that clear. it depends on whether you want to use "you". < 1550500387 866526 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you can't have all three of "they", "you", and "those" < 1550500406 62106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou shan't < 1550501523 305357 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drphdkkdzouvojbn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550502386 276237 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a tetris game for the Game Boy that shows the full 20 rows or more, either by showing more than one row in a tile, or by making you rotate the screen? < 1550502480 982973 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x7 pixel squares should be doable, I think. the graphics would be terrible, but still. < 1550504383 797097 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esologs/writer.cc sockets of SOCK_SEQPACKET type, wow. that's something you don't see often. > 1550504566 591021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59931&oldid=59658 5* 03Helen 5* (+16) 10/* Bitwise Instructions */ Added stuff about functionality < 1550505950 61516 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the distribution of phonemes in English less zipfy or more zipfy than the distribution of letters? < 1550505995 669269 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550506095 747969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the distribution of letters is particularly Zipfian. < 1550506102 80674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The distribution of *words* is.) < 1550506391 502725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I still had my university account, I'd crunch some phoneme frequencies out of one of our English ASR training sets. < 1550506543 430570 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550507358 375097 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550507953 396912 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zcukvradsqoccvfy QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550508414 790633 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550508698 766288 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550508856 707948 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550509066 246865 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550510357 199804 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550510609 537119 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1550511950 984315 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512143 751836 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512154 832050 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550512297 550750 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550512321 814361 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512352 945239 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550512588 953979 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550512856 943571 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550512944 461536 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550513130 733338 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550514036 282071 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550514473 941785 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550514577 239293 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550515270 526714 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550515440 136879 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550515925 787505 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550516251 750122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1550517893 475321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59932 5* 03Orby 5* (+2165) 10Created initial page > 1550517910 43343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59933&oldid=59932 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10Removing extraneous whitespace > 1550518054 951372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59934&oldid=59933 5* 03Orby 5* (+459) 10 > 1550518113 272859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59935&oldid=59934 5* 03Orby 5* (+46) 10/* See also */ > 1550518146 563814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59936&oldid=59935 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Introduction */ > 1550518312 288909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59937&oldid=51743 5* 03Orby 5* (+152) 10 > 1550518333 472178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59938&oldid=59937 5* 03Orby 5* (+11) 10 > 1550518355 82450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59939&oldid=59938 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10 < 1550519493 993773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1550519745 882700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59940&oldid=59936 5* 03Orby 5* (+3) 10 > 1550519879 521478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59941&oldid=59940 5* 03Orby 5* (-20) 10/* See also */ > 1550519947 466235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59942&oldid=59941 5* 03Orby 5* (-4) 10/* Branching */ > 1550519975 986555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59943&oldid=59942 5* 03Orby 5* (+5) 10/* Branching */ < 1550520110 879594 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igfvvlbzmucmbjll JOIN :#esoteric < 1550520309 33838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re 2-3-4 tree, so you are using a low arity because you primarily care about persistant (cow) nodes? that makes sense, but for the non-persistent case a larger arity could be better > 1550520547 461078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59944&oldid=59907 5* 03Orby 5* (+18) 10/* Brainfuck derivatives */ < 1550520645 319182 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fwbsfhvwuvefkneq QUIT :Quit: removing from IRC because user idle on matrix for 30+ days < 1550520852 173364 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: fire's < 1550521047 744474 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550521249 503053 :grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric > 1550521699 682584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59945&oldid=59943 5* 03Orby 5* (+71) 10 > 1550521730 102361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59946&oldid=59945 5* 03Orby 5* (+8) 10/* Specification */ < 1550522178 315797 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1550522529 457669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59947&oldid=59946 5* 03Orby 5* (+52) 10/* Examples */ > 1550522638 683651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59948&oldid=59947 5* 03Orby 5* (+106) 10/* Specification */ > 1550522731 48231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59949&oldid=59926 5* 03Cortex 5* (+0) 10 < 1550522783 147759 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550522795 728225 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all! < 1550522896 187170 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone interested in working on a collection of quines in esolangs whose commands are English words (e.g. Ook!) to submit for National Novel Generation Month. The code that generates the book would be the book itself :) I don't think it's been done. < 1550522990 189679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but, you can try, I suppose < 1550523022 109785 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm planning on doing it. Just wondering if anyone was interested in collaborating or contributing. < 1550523068 673480 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50,000 commands worth of quines is a lot of code for one person to write < 1550523215 84586 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi most of the novels generated for national novel generation month are nonsensical, so I'm not worried about it actually being readable < 1550523233 355750 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50,000 words of readable quines is probably a lifetime project, not a one month project < 1550523234 840905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: you could write just one quine with a 49000 word long novel as its payload < 1550523279 129970 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, that's the cop out I'll do if I don't have time to do more than one quine < 1550523347 121176 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be cool to do a little book of poem / quines < 1550523418 34889 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and highlight some different interesting esolangs < 1550523519 108259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: also, there was a project somewhere repeated once each year for several years that's a special case of NaNoWriMo, where the goal is to write a program that writes an 50000 word novel < 1550523537 37366 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah NaNoGenMo, national novel generation month > 1550523548 215031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:1st-Worst14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59950 5* 03Cortex 5* (+162) 10/* . */ new section < 1550523548 458459 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's what I plan on submitting it to < 1550523565 771813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good < 1550523611 991075 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised nobody has done a book of quines in languages whose commands are natural language before for nanogenmo < 1550523639 888318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: wait, how do you know? there were lots of programs submitted < 1550523650 878512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try to run each of them? < 1550523665 58254 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say, "I'd be surprised" < 1550523699 336219 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone could have accidentally generated a quine in some language I suppose < 1550523726 396283 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a cursory google search doesn't reveal anything < 1550523804 659877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ in some languages, it is not too hard to write a quine < 1550523805 318573 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in some languages , it is not too hard to write a quine < 1550523828 973502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even our honorable and learned friend fungot could do so < 1550523829 121969 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: and the look and feel :) and which one doesn't? < 1550523865 219909 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's true, but in the spirit of nanogenmo the output should look something like readable english and not many languages look like readable english < 1550523893 927456 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to start working on an esolangs list of languages whose source code looks like english < 1550523918 464753 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as candidate languages for quines < 1550523927 380825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: it's trickier than that. it's not just "whose source code looks like english" < 1550523937 234779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages, you can write programs that look like english, and ones that don't < 1550523955 612093 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some obfuscated programs in perl that try to look somewhat like english text < 1550523959 669597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't know of any such quines < 1550523988 835971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there are programs where most of the source code is english, but there's a small decoder around it < 1550524000 98996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a program can be written in many languages that have easy string literals < 1550524008 747734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-line ones < 1550524040 351964 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I'd like to restrict the characters used to make it more interesting. Like every string of letters should be a word and the only non-letter characters allowed should be common punctuation marks used in plausible ways. < 1550524068 824195 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! is perfectly in the spirit of what I mean < 1550524102 254986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: in perl you can write programs with only letters and spaces. many people have done that, including me. again I don't know of such a quine, but it can probably be done. < 1550524108 650861 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have been working on a language for the purpose called Semordnilap for the same purpose < 1550524122 447935 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: a perl quine that is only composed of english words would be mindblowingly amazing < 1550524144 567868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I didn't say that < 1550524153 764768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said only letters and spaces < 1550524166 888229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only english words is much harder, because then you can't use "q" or "qq" or anything of that sort < 1550524168 913382 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, I gather that using actual words would be another level of challenge < 1550524180 297485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me point to some such obfus < 1550524253 192224 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool cool > 1550524292 18970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59951&oldid=59948 5* 03Orby 5* (+22) 10/* Introduction */ > 1550524379 151428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59952&oldid=59951 5* 03Orby 5* (-4) 10/* Branching */ < 1550524475 829187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=290607 https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=338686 https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=453519 look in replies too < 1550524521 685149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=877696 is a steganography one, where I take a nearly arbitrary text, and hide unrelated text in it, plus add a small decoder. this won't lead to a quine since the hidden text is much shorter. < 1550524531 324648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1550524539 365232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could actually lead to a quine if you only hid the decoder in there < 1550524550 603153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and printed the funged text itself verbatim < 1550524583 68094 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very cool. Doing a quine in this format seems like it would be quite challenging. < 1550524602 788645 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550524626 933882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the non-alphanumeric subset of JavaScript, but I don't think it's doable the other way around. < 1550524637 445083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do a Lingua::Romana::Perligata quine maybe? < 1550524662 184781 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not familiar with that, is that an esolang? < 1550524676 137870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: the wiki has a page on it < 1550524676 708895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a Perl module to write code in Latin-ish. < 1550524679 453821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://metacpan.org/pod/Lingua::Romana::Perligata < 1550524689 889643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Perligata < 1550524694 370178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's a stub < 1550524699 181576 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ecbkjtjwimwsnpdq JOIN :#esoteric < 1550524722 816206 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is very cool too. Thanks for the link. > 1550524726 76737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lingua::Romana::Perligata14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59953 5* 03B jonas 5* (+23) 10Redirected page to [[Perligata]] < 1550525157 616535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pseudonatural category, but I doubt it's very complete. < 1550525219 527269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ORK, though I doubt I'd manage to participate in anything. < 1550525454 408084 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550525491 132870 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Awesome, pseudonatural is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ORK indeed looks awesome. < 1550525652 789036 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROFL, best hello world ever http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/#SECTION00091000000000000000 < 1550525738 48851 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the Thesaurus Perligatus < 1550525747 377677 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDIN vestibulo "an entrance" < 1550525747 523461 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDOUT egresso "an exit" < 1550525748 50520 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :STDERR oraculo "a place where doom is pronounced" < 1550525753 967416 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550525784 613750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59954&oldid=59952 5* 03Orby 5* (+58) 10 < 1550525833 738352 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a place where doom is pronounced XD > 1550526777 962979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59955&oldid=59954 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550526806 452274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ook!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59956&oldid=41892 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 > 1550527617 864236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07German14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59957&oldid=41722 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550527742 186647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59958&oldid=34532 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 < 1550527893 517727 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igfvvlbzmucmbjll QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550527902 869515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gorispace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59959&oldid=19062 5* 03Orby 5* (+28) 10 > 1550528058 113576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59960&oldid=51619 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 < 1550528094 173489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: just to be sure, you know Chef the esolang, right? < 1550528110 672859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already mentioned Shakespeare, right? < 1550528111 159787 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nope! checking it out now > 1550528142 552692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chef14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59961&oldid=58292 5* 03Orby 5* (+27) 10 < 1550528193 910572 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome :) < 1550528213 202624 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yep, I'm cataloging some of the better examples under the pseudonatural category < 1550528279 303463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because of reasons(tm), you'll need to be logged in for the category page to get updated. < 1550528293 910942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks MediaWiki file cache < 1550528294 977661 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, MediaWiki file cache. ThediaWiki file cache. > 1550528331 485499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59962&oldid=59955 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ < 1550528344 584056 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the bot didn't annouce minor edits... < 1550528348 106765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: as in http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm ? < 1550528367 784993 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: as in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pseudonatural < 1550528383 158512 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "resembling natural language" < 1550528402 894801 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nice d&d reference :) < 1550528442 895775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: Depending on your IRC client you may be able to suppress all mentions of edits (I did it) < 1550528459 157574 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't mind it, I just don't want to spam everyone else < 1550528484 612913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then everyone else can program such a feature in their IRC client and you do not have to do. < 1550528512 888288 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess that's always an option :) < 1550528574 571624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It puts a "M" in there for minor edits, in case someone's interested in filtering those out specifically. I think generally people don't mind them, though I think some do ignore them. < 1550528608 391716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in ignoring minor edits anyway. that attitude just leads to having to debug "but I didn't change anything" problems. < 1550528622 745773 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550528653 542883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not hide minor edits (or any other edits) in the recent changes list in the wiki, only I hide it in the IRC < 1550530299 996830 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550531995 769458 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550532650 156547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :```` quote; wisdom < 1550532650 800726 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```: not found < 1550532650 840256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :```` quote; wisdom < 1550532651 525071 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```: not found < 1550532654 307709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; wisdom < 1550532654 873174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; wisdom < 1550532655 247580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :853) There is Haskell program "pandoc" to convert formats, so I make "panchess" which is the similar thing but for chess. \ it'//It's written with an apostrophe. < 1550532655 921534 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1073) I AM AN INVADING NECROPOLIS... ALL BOW BEFORE MY... erm... WALLS?... NECROBUILDINGS? \ the question//The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master. < 1550532681 739449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` wisdom; quote < 1550532682 617909 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress//Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ 785) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday < 1550532685 487076 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; quote < 1550532686 314229 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :594) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? \ 361) adding quotes by yourself is strictly prohibited and will lead to you being banned < 1550532751 477645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` starwars 2; scheme; random-card < 1550532752 582199 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finn \ Mace Windu \ I Bask in Your Silent Awe \ Miasmic Mummy \ 1B \ Creature -- Zombie Jackal \ 2/2 \ When Miasmic Mummy enters the battlefield, each player discards a card. \ AKH-C < 1550532776 805271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1550532777 460429 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ix the eggs, filling all ingredients. Add the water and nuts, then add the \ water and salt in a large skillet; add the eggs, mix \ well and set aside. Remove the chilline for one out of the apple mashed. \ Sprinkle the parsley and flour and set aside. Fry the chops to a \ boil, and simmer for about 30 minutes, or until the mixture is \ coated and all the beef dispalles are done. \ \ 2. In a large bowl mix beans, and salt in skillet over medium hig < 1550532837 11618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fry the chops to a boil? hmm. < 1550532845 856695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is reasonably readable though < 1550532855 849221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still is obsessed with skillets < 1550532963 438984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-155.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550534557 651528 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550534586 807816 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550534726 801736 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550534727 576926 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1550535332 792205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59963&oldid=59931 5* 03Helen 5* (+2768) 10/* Turing-completeness */ Continuation of [[User:A]]'s attempt at proving Turing-completeness > 1550535530 55320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59964&oldid=59963 5* 03Helen 5* (-134) 10/* Implementation */ Added v4.3 jar < 1550536895 658950 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550539510 878092 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550539556 791906 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550543327 306679 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550545321 523224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Glulx, the Huffman tree is stored in a inefficient way, which is nine bytes per branch node, two bytes per node to emit a single character, and there are other nodes too < 1550546629 468434 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1550546630 847048 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : is absorbed. Store in a \ high flavors of the meat mixture, and cover with a size of the \ egg mixture. Serve the sugar canned cheese with salt and pepper. Place \ the flour and cornstarch in a large bowl. Stir the \ beef into the center cups. Bake at high heat and stir over soup and replace 3 \ tablespoons of the bowl. Let cool for at least 4 minutes. Sprinkle the beans, then \ stirring frequently. When the meat is dissolved. Store to medium-sid > 1550547310 225417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59965&oldid=57437 5* 03Orby 5* (+1665) 10 < 1550547451 515298 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an algorithm for developing quines is obvious, but I just figured it out :) < 1550547461 725422 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned something today. > 1550547869 422860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59966&oldid=59965 5* 03Orby 5* (+52) 10 > 1550547984 63579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59967&oldid=59966 5* 03Orby 5* (+1) 10Fixing minor typo < 1550548509 974966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1550548638 563353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59968&oldid=59967 5* 03Orby 5* (+209) 10 < 1550549170 146509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : wob_jonas: are there other languages with a unique number with the corresponding property? <-- hm norwegian seems to be, 1 = "ett" (or "en", "ei" if gendered) is the only one i can find < 1550549520 372725 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550550184 961653 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1550550185 654560 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1550550339 451715 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550550358 414516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550553384 982243 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550553400 742114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550554366 818991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lovecraftianmadness 5* 10New user account < 1550554548 211055 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1550554630 344083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59969&oldid=59912 5* 03Lovecraftianmadness 5* (+382) 10/* Introductions */ > 1550554836 339204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Computational class14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59970&oldid=23616 5* 03Lovecraftianmadness 5* (+234) 10 < 1550557436 107924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550561443 261431 :hlv!~hlv@173.230.18.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550561487 875018 :hlv!~hlv@173.230.18.195 NICK :Hooloovax > 1550563899 236086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Computational class14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59971&oldid=59970 5* 03Ais523 5* (+253) 10it's a partial preorder > 1550563934 284964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Computational class14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59972&oldid=59971 5* 03Ais523 5* (+21) 10fix {{unsigned}} > 1550563991 263440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Computational class14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59973&oldid=35522 5* 03Ais523 5* (+6) 10partial preorder, not partial order < 1550565452 778038 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550566732 51832 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550567271 987447 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550568229 769577 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550568354 331210 :Hooloovax!~hlv@173.230.18.195 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550568429 808341 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550568590 948703 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550570434 443357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550570443 774876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: and http://www.omniglot.com/language/numbers/index.htm may be a starting point for finding out more < 1550570452 738310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pbflist or something < 1550570489 802180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/grandpas-couch-hot-paper-comics/ < 1550570490 843666 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/grandpas-couch-hot-paper-comics/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale < 1550570682 987881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-179.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Client Quit > 1550577039 465247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59974 5* 03A 5* (+3001) 10Created page with "[[Assembly language]] is a minimal Harvard-architectured conputer. It has all the basic features of a modern computer. There is an array with indexes from 00 to FF. Index 00..." > 1550577058 884348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59975&oldid=59974 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Commands */ > 1550577310 763221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59976&oldid=59975 5* 03A 5* (+18) 10/* Machine code interpreter */ > 1550577355 920585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59977&oldid=59976 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10 > 1550577464 247761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59978&oldid=59977 5* 03A 5* (+184) 10Add specification. < 1550577887 743075 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550577980 765492 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550577981 260594 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1550578126 817796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59979&oldid=59964 5* 03A 5* (-82) 10Not ''close'', some operations are implemented below. < 1550578629 982152 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric > 1550578716 94863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59980&oldid=59979 5* 03A 5* (+338) 10Multiplication/Division idea. I don't know if this can be implemented. > 1550578952 770439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59981&oldid=59874 5* 03A 5* (-1069) 10Blanked the page > 1550578991 565533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59982&oldid=59981 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10Redirected page to [[User talk:A]] > 1550579017 615080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59983&oldid=59875 5* 03A 5* (+20) 10Redirected page to [[User:A]] > 1550580113 559291 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59984&oldid=59980 5* 03A 5* (-125) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ < 1550580995 57781 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550581152 709423 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celebrate Chaoflux! < 1550582287 738409 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550583150 774091 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aplcfqitdbyjzfqc JOIN :#esoteric > 1550583718 797371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59985&oldid=59978 5* 03A 5* (+180) 10 > 1550583911 759363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59986&oldid=59985 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Components (Very trivial) */ > 1550583951 64237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59987&oldid=59986 5* 03A 5* (+53) 10 > 1550584008 100296 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59988&oldid=59987 5* 03A 5* (-123) 10/* Machine code interpreter */ < 1550584481 744890 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550585669 729366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59989&oldid=59988 5* 03A 5* (+302) 10 > 1550585761 21718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59990&oldid=59681 5* 03A 5* (+305) 10/* asdf */ > 1550585950 264374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59991&oldid=59733 5* 03A 5* (+154) 10/* AsciiDots */ > 1550587262 656553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59992&oldid=59989 5* 03A 5* (+192) 10/* Examples */ < 1550588296 725949 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550589058 347500 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1550590935 758592 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aplcfqitdbyjzfqc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550591482 388267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59993&oldid=59983 5* 03Ais523 5* (-20) 10rm #REDIRECT from user talk page; the user talk page has a technical status in that it's needed to send people messages, and redirecting it breaks that < 1550591859 585045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1156 < 1550591860 486925 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1156: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1550591885 986813 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550591966 986600 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550592047 738148 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550592071 915897 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o! < 1550592173 945899 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550592238 405609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of the List < 1550592447 446749 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... > 1550593860 607377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lanmonster 5* 10New user account < 1550593887 921365 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1550594166 116595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59994&oldid=59969 5* 03Lanmonster 5* (+186) 10/* Introductions */ > 1550595559 934577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59995&oldid=56977 5* 03Lanmonster 5* (+147) 10/* Implementation */ > 1550596124 957565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chimera14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59996&oldid=53137 5* 03Lanmonster 5* (+1) 10/* Object Expansion */ < 1550596415 127925 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550596454 872933 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550596478 134471 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550596479 9781 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550596704 449100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59997&oldid=59902 5* 03Kamish 5* (+11599) 10 > 1550596761 340595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59998&oldid=59997 5* 03Kamish 5* (+5) 10 > 1550596774 142754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59999&oldid=59998 5* 03Kamish 5* (+5) 10 > 1550596828 996634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60000&oldid=59999 5* 03Kamish 5* (-5) 10 < 1550596914 938487 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550597266 163819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550597704 842181 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1550597932 876666 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ciiswldpqjwdefrl JOIN :#esoteric < 1550598614 814438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Oots! is a Ook! clone designed to annoy 99% of the #esoteric denizens... ) < 1550599199 20961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :99%? < 1550599215 928103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't even 100 people in this channel < 1550599297 254282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: people can read the log file < 1550599315 910900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus not all denizens are connected all the time < 1550599330 567133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Ook! but only for historical nostalgic reasons < 1550599336 62436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the earlier esolangs I've met < 1550599340 366247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still hate Brainfuck < 1550599356 67916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that does cause me a bit of cognitive dissonance < 1550599699 111555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 1 down, 81 to go ;-) < 1550599750 483349 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Ook! gave us Piet, in a way. < 1550599809 301981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck should also be seen in its historical perspective. Also I think it's the first esoteric programming language I've ever encountered? Or was INTERCAL first? < 1550599827 556766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. < 1550599875 636747 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I expect oerjan to complain about the "a". :) < 1550600740 287975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a"? < 1550600958 387949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's a consonant, but an vowel. Or how did that rule work again? < 1550600962 145631 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550602401 833566 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550603224 499350 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :consonant/vowel sound, rather than letter < 1550603404 310437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being rhetorical. Or perhaps facetious. < 1550603443 132097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? firefly < 1550603444 130921 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. < 1550603458 44000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so factual < 1550603550 462744 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the fancy command to list contributors to a command, hmm < 1550603561 476968 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a factoid in this case < 1550603570 135856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dowg? cwlprits? < 1550603577 859693 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg firefly < 1550603579 711552 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2854:2013-05-05 learn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. < 1550603582 956549 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1550603593 66528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Tanea < 1550603594 8300 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd. < 1550603612 968414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Tanec < 1550603614 9503 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous! < 1550603622 868562 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits Tanec < 1550603624 348820 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550603626 523008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits tanec < 1550603628 31288 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1550603650 513189 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1550603651 638948 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1550603673 548582 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1550603689 523664 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't blow up the sun < 1550603707 538494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the context for that. Again. < 1550603717 467422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl int-e < 1550603718 100871 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/int-e < 1550603779 474164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, escalation. https://esolangs.org/logs/2016-03-14.html#lgn < 1550603897 866938 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hipster-Spiel < 1550603923 277254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was Braid. < 1550603934 840456 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: iirc Tanea was me when someone incremented me < 1550603936 523230 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braid is too good < 1550603937 391205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly Stephen's Sausage Roll. < 1550603954 291125 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was Braid because I vaguely recall that conversation, and I don't think it was a game I'd heard of or played :p < 1550603984 990518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSR it is then. Which is another game I've never finished < 1550603997 480276 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I'm good at not finishing games < 1550604008 416375 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550604012 568940 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finally completed all tasks in TIS-100. < 1550604023 974008 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did that.. < 1550604029 640063 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished most of them < 1550604035 655932 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hyper-optimised a few < 1550604059 76843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm missing one of the second chunk of them? Was there a second chunk? < 1550604071 697 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there was, and I didn't really look at those at all < 1550604100 868478 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when the second batch of levels were released, I had kind of gotten past the initial excitement burst < 1550604110 870716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: there was the TIS-net chunk, yes < 1550604120 5616 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I also need to finish the last bits of Exapunks at some point < 1550604129 261677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was missing 4 of those until yesterday < 1550604148 202078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because... at some point it got tedious. < 1550604259 323278 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never bought SHENZHEN I/O though. < 1550604300 388132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas SSR got hard at the point where puzzles became about strategically loosing your fork. < 1550604303 538153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*losing < 1550604404 197729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHENZHEN I/O also has a second level set... I'm stuck on the clock because apparently the logic does not fit nicely into one or two of the programmable circuits. < 1550604425 682677 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550604539 70158 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's Infinifactory which has 4 level sets, and I thought the tasks in the 4th were just too big. < 1550604631 329276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even hear about Exapunks, Opus Magnum was the last game I had heard of. < 1550604683 476351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinifactory also has quite a different flavour since you're not writing any code. < 1550604701 400991 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exapunks has a pretty neat cyberpunk-esque setting to it < 1550604738 39410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otoh the Human Resource Machine was easy. I have not bought Opus Magnum, and Exapunks sounds too time intensive (and I'm saying that having sunk days into those other games) < 1550604758 1695 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1550604768 760718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else was there... SpaceChem. Never got very far. < 1550604795 636162 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got Exapunks last year, but intentionally delayed getting it til I had a two-week vacation, so I could at least spend some of the obligatory intensive addiction/focus on it on the train < 1550604810 387209 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay trains < 1550604815 966045 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really liked SpaceChem much for whatever reason < 1550604825 391219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, a train of thought! < 1550604831 19808 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay trains indeed, that reminds me that I need to order a new interrail pass < 1550604839 853213 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIS-100 went from easy to very hard quickly < 1550604842 100801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spacechem exhibited a nasty lack of symmetry quite soon < 1550604852 310781 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :trains? < 1550604859 112471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: SSI should finish SSR < 1550604862 149146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's TG < 1550604868 779451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSI? < 1550604868 965311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/SS/ < 1550604874 113891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1550604874 722526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1550604907 652744 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: means of transport that works reasonably well in Europe < 1550604923 552558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yeah, I live there < 1550604935 212606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to understand how the cauldrons in Recursed really work. < 1550604936 109246 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1550604936 923714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even ventured to the parts of Europe where trains work better than here < 1550604952 932784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel geschrieben. < 1550604972 627836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Oh, I remember Recursed. That's Ein Hipster-Spiel < 1550604980 289875 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hehe, Sweden's trains aren't the best either < 1550604997 420941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/E/e/ < 1550605001 815534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just a mess today < 1550605022 293404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursed was mostly on the easy/slow side but it had some neat levels. < 1550605024 831568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I think I mentioned that that's where I first sat on a two-storey train < 1550605038 663633 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( That's a rare moment of clarity... most of the time, shachaf doesn't notice he's a mess. ) < 1550605054 359254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have some kind of a tricky system where there's multiple types of transport trains, with different tickets for them < 1550605062 289060 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really follow how that works < 1550605071 523967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you play the two DLC level sets and did you get all the diamonds? < 1550605088 457976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some of the diamonds and some of the DLC < 1550605088 984672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and rubies, if you've seen those) < 1550605093 777559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe all the diamonds? I don't remember. < 1550605166 47258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember the cauldrons being complicated. < 1550605214 459755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the main Recursed levels are not too hard, though the logistics can get quite tricky. But I do lack a proper mental model for those cauldrons, so I'm kind of lost in the final part of the last DLC set. < 1550605271 52438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it's simple. we only have three types of passenger trains: normal trains, metro, and HÉV. metro and HÉV are suburban trains that run on tracks separated from normal trains, there's no toilet on them, and if they have multiple carriages then you can't pass between them without getting off, and they're ran by BKV so you have to buy tickets from them. metro, in addition, doesn't have road crossings. < 1550605282 457814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: take it to #trains hth < 1550605304 366802 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat canary < 1550605304 922036 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550605319 358102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's #openttd on oftc < 1550605331 882184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1550605336 465721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right channel < 1550605338 468354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not #trains < 1550605358 373269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you talking about OpenTTD? I thought you were talking about trains. < 1550605374 198135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about trains < 1550605383 948537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why is #trains not the right channel? < 1550605428 259670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550605686 569156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52326956_808073166219023_5828373343404818432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=25f5c7263ac39fa5c8f01aa83b38db63&oe=5CEA6B1C < 1550605691 372675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems vaguely #esoteric somehow < 1550605750 867139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck 🦆 < 1550606411 649004 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550606634 856851 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quacks < 1550606709 509957 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I still haven't beaten most of the cauldron levels < 1550606727 405345 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm too proud to look at the guides < 1550606850 525507 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my understanding is that a cauldron forms a link to a room in a spefic state incl objects in it < 1550606890 66242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "template void ellipsis(Ts......);" < 1550606895 285093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg, huh < 1550606907 696142 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1550606918 157049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ varargs followed by C varargs < 1550606928 92854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo good...... < 1550606928 250768 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550606945 54461 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree to disagree < 1550606986 807196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the problem is that you're viewing c++ as a serious language rather than as a joke hth < 1550607013 855539 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a joke that went too far < 1550607039 807584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an esolang wiki article about C++ < 1550607107 625549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no. we try not to start on the slippery slope where we eventually write articles about every non-eso language. < 1550607116 940211 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :killjoy < 1550607131 806501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the slippery slope here < 1550607139 930452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :write an article about C++ and then stop < 1550607141 552910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no slope < 1550607142 224772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1550607158 82813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we don't write articles about perl, php, ruby, C, C++, fortran, java, C#, javascript, ... < 1550607177 916556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor about dc < 1550607202 807896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :among all those languages only one is C++ < 1550607287 560856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also mediawiki doesn't allow us to put pluses in the language name < 1550607306 718477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so C, C++, C# would have to share an article < 1550607325 919969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of those languages, actually three of them is C++ as far as mediawiki understands < 1550607347 155104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc C/C < 1550607347 200846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: I enjoy it when people write "C/C++" on their resume as if it were one language... so "F#/FORTRAN/Forth", "Perl/Python/Pascal", "Ruby/REBOL/R" < 1550608006 900502 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL/PHP/PL/I < 1550608022 673611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is PERL? < 1550608026 337588 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL/PHP/PL/I//// < 1550608041 532134 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How plausible would it be to use genetic algorithms to discover source code in esolangs that follow some specification, like printing digits 1 to 10 or outputting hello world? < 1550608065 815995 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL is the Practical Extration and Reporting Language < 1550608100 838522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I think it goes Perl/Python/Ruby/PHP, and you shouldn't do all four, but any three is acceptible. PL/I is sort of related, but pretty old. < 1550608119 949206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :galaxie: people tried that for malbolge < 1550608128 674258 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: And the results? < 1550608134 523086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed < 1550608141 414014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, find it on the internet < 1550608144 635491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall the details < 1550608180 626107 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly awhile ago I took a serious look at PL/I and was annoyed that more languages didn't follow it < 1550608198 746878 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of a less difficult language to try this with though, so I guess the results would be better if I tried it with some other esolang? < 1550608244 45553 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550608751 345427 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: This looks promising, albeit not necessarily for my idea: http://stoke.stanford.edu/ < 1550608769 185093 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how so many old languages had a < 1550608792 857045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a what? < 1550608797 810062 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO i = 1 TO length < 1550608808 568679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that's Fortran's influence < 1550608812 274376 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :statement but C and so on don't < 1550608842 974732 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the for( idiom requires you to give the loop variable 3 times < 1550608922 550803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: there are macros around that, and in C++ you could even do that with the range-for and a library function range. but people are reluctant to do either of that, mostly because we all remember that our prophets K&R have specifically said that the for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) is the Right Way to write an arithmetic loop. < 1550609031 818114 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Here's what I was looking for: https://github.com/primaryobjects/AI-Programmer/ < 1550609070 165386 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550609144 837314 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C has way too many precedence levels, and languages taking after C inherit them and sometimes add more, < 1550609199 694349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: the too many precedence levels is a good thing. the questionable thing is that & has a lower precedence than ==, but at this point it's languages that don't do that, like rust, that confuse me < 1550609222 158715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :again because K&R have decreed that & has the lower precedence level < 1550609281 409745 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I think there should be like 5 precedence levels at most < 1550609294 215835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1550609296 329642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely no < 1550609310 155086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't you ever programmed BASIC and had to write redundant parenthesis? < 1550609322 261665 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, and, =, +, * < 1550609324 627650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even pascal or metafont or whatever < 1550609339 332451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fewer precedence levels is the wrong goal < 1550609351 326935 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise | at same level of +, bitwise & at same level as * < 1550609369 990434 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those shouldn't be mixed without parens anyway < 1550609591 550215 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I think the most complex statement you should make without parens would be something like < 1550609664 934121 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x * 2 + 1 > y and a_flag or b_flag then < 1550609737 417238 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C thie equivalent would be < 1550609887 538754 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550609903 191367 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ( R = x * 2 + 1 << 1 > 4 == y & a | b && A || B ) < 1550609925 70758 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something, I'm probably missing a couple levels < 1550609940 234863 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 QUIT :Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.6 -- Are we there yet? < 1550610040 451943 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some languages do away with precedence entirely, I think that's going too far, but I think the number of levels should be far fewer < 1550610112 977079 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could fix some of the need for parentheses by having a few more operators < 1550610612 546923 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a language with horizontal whitespace for precedence < 1550610618 496225 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostensibly non esoteric < 1550610619 326302 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example bitwise ~& and logical nand < 1550610627 845798 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2+3 * 4 is (2+3)*4 < 1550610636 43330 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 2 + 3*4 is 2+(3*4) < 1550610639 499457 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550610640 408074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: that's ruby < 1550610647 984240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1550610651 209673 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Rust, boolean and bitwise negation are both ~ < 1550610651 639923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's ruby < 1550610652 675196 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1550610654 530821 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both ! < 1550610667 120155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust has strong typing for integers so there is no implicit conversion between bools and ints < 1550610667 305508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 3+4 * 5+6 < 1550610675 855308 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~ was once in use for another since removed language construct < 1550610697 31811 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've actually done that in my own notes before (whitespace for precedence) < 1550610726 796764 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but ruby still has a jillion precedence levels inherited from C < 1550610753 920255 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more < 1550610756 495951 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for fractions I found it to be a bit handy, since it could reduce noise a bit < 1550610780 543167 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A || B and C in ruby is (A || B) and C < 1550610785 419615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce fraction friction < 1550610817 907470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 494 < 1550610818 596122 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 494: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1550610895 45432 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550611079 43582 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550611443 122436 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1550612275 699233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60001&oldid=59962 5* 03Orby 5* (+46) 10Adding output < 1550615108 411859 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550615714 938330 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550615838 857824 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550616589 63764 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550616671 336819 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550616690 92087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: whoa, did you know Python 3.6 supports Perl-style string interpolation? < 1550616702 884469 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dongs = 69; f'{dongs}' < 1550616709 256812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550616723 41563 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL NOW YOU DO < 1550616726 929477 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1550616727 26310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550616746 61823 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but nobody uses python 3 in real life < 1550616789 663401 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because there's no such thing as real life < 1550616807 145541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc wins this one < 1550617117 80783 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ciiswldpqjwdefrl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550617612 630129 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sad but I forgot what about :( < 1550617614 385817 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the worst < 1550617622 174291 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :better get high and then I'll forget that I'm sad as well < 1550617652 276117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sad about josephine the cat < 1550617653 245026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1550617665 108031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe proposing random things for you to be sad about isn't a good strategy < 1550617693 757815 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1550617699 394647 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cat really sparked joy :( < 1550617729 344154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like cats < 1550617730 968429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and joy > 1550617956 211151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60002&oldid=59984 5* 03Helen 5* (+175) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ Added implementation of addition algorithm > 1550618143 865847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60003&oldid=60001 5* 03Orby 5* (+854) 10 < 1550618249 448226 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550618489 464110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ode to cats > 1550618658 372609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60004&oldid=59991 5* 03Helen 5* (+34) 10Added bitch < 1550619773 264618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a cat wall at the office. < 1550619788 585068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's just a wall you can put a picture of your cat(s) on.) < 1550619898 206031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know: glibc memcmp on ARM used to switch into big endian mode < 1550619907 645045 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550619908 298708 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550619912 959459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1550619919 192721 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why'd they stop < 1550619954 857649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/rsaxvc/arm-mem/commit/b836e465c2fd0bb006b428abce99e31607072834 < 1550619979 712249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this isn't glibc? whatever < 1550619991 8705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it broke valgrind, for one < 1550620295 250892 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1550620307 183099 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cortex-m support bi-endianness? < 1550620340 439024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it supports either but you can't switch < 1550620343 598052 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1550620408 959569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550620451 40853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there languages that have different calling conventions per function, specifying which registers need to be saved and so on? < 1550620613 65085 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :differing according to what < 1550620650 522444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the compiler can figure it out when it compiles the function < 1550620829 823531 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, anything that can't be called outside the compilation unit can be optimized arbitrarily < 1550620850 209323 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you wouldn't need to save caller-save registers around a call to a function that happens to not use those registers < 1550620858 733467 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's assuming the function isn't inlined anyway) < 1550621092 742363 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550621240 760711 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1550621240 854247 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550621243 323337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2750792/how-to-defeat-a-hero/ < 1550621244 615876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2750792/how-to-defeat-a-hero/: b_jonas < 1550621403 817028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I mean putting things like clobbered registers and maximum stack size in the "type" of a function. < 1550621431 852588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also do C compilers actually change the calling convention for static non-inline functions? < 1550621454 391665 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might < 1550621474 947644 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Rust the calling convettion is part of the type < 1550621483 374762 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't pass a fn as an extern "C" fn < 1550621496 260200 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. But there are a few fixed conventions. < 1550621582 93149 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean < 1550621593 122570 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying you should be able to define your own conventions? < 1550621811 716935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying you can have a convention per function depending on how many registers it needs and so on. < 1550621840 953636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550621994 884929 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These seem like things you can do in general. If you have a DAG of functions it's easy, and if you have a cycle I guess you can just go with the conservative option (unlimited stack, standard calling convention). > 1550622027 406633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60005&oldid=59958 5* 03BMO 5* (+4094) 10 < 1550622051 627151 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550622096 363770 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550622099 697461 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550624043 957375 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550625992 137967 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550629353 285714 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550629694 207128 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric > 1550630853 433398 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60006&oldid=59939 5* 03Orby 5* (-30) 10 < 1550631628 424930 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550631753 344114 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550633558 973085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550634430 323279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? saneb < 1550634431 439280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saneb is too normal to invent things, but he likes to watch SV and play Vorld of Varcraft. < 1550634701 735964 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550635300 143728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: also mediawiki doesn't allow us to put pluses in the language name <-- . o O ( i'm starting to worry about b_jonas - this and claiming helium in zeppelin's explode... ) < 1550635307 80628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-' < 1550635307 391460 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550635314 367987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1550635323 907478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also about my own gramar and spling < 1550635403 823567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there are definitely pluses in language names on the wiki. < 1550635693 61069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i'm worried hth < 1550635904 587934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh < 1550635907 634277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twacftc < 1550637730 809043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twacftc < 1550637731 970657 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :twacftc? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550638620 320295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't remember < 1550638632 656120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "that was actually clear from the context" or something along those lines < 1550639402 227087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1550640144 687865 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550641826 569331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh they've rewritten the dialogue of the third last girl genius comic. seems like they remembered tarvek had already met the castle fragment < 1550642126 528244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's a comment edit below < 1550642553 683473 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550643063 753496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second monster statue from the right looks a bit like the one over mechanicsburg < 1550643471 513737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140611 for that one) < 1550644629 107003 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: should there be more cat emojis in the Unicode, y/y < 1550644677 716297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: will you adopt a cat and/or a cat emoji < 1550644889 705753 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550645237 689596 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550646588 87874 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550646865 86483 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550648785 828255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550651342 83522 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550651461 482865 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550651477 826776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550652039 496221 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be adding anymore emoji to my font since windows refuses to display them in my font < 1550652075 503917 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will hoever, be getting back to adding more characters regularly < 1550652125 420119 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1550653021 462043 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also remember how killing pulseaudio was common solution for ubuntu problems a few years ago? < 1550653042 766649 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well today I ahve a problem with my mouse freezing up on windows 10 < 1550653064 122439 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says the solution is to kill the Realtek Audio Manager < 1550653096 395139 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pulseaudio < 1550653096 521358 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at uni we have an issue with debian where the cursor sometimes is invisible for a few minuts after login < 1550653097 495993 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550654269 8619 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550655408 250859 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550655426 234739 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550656731 122491 :orbitaldecay!49ac708d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.112.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550658059 267213 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to see that bdf2ttf.c is still working < 1550658074 180444 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://orenwatson.be/bdf2ttf.htm < 1550660661 66321 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vvutafqsbcthpaee JOIN :#esoteric > 1550660781 578400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60007&oldid=60002 5* 03Helen 5* (-257) 10Updated impossible popular problems entry > 1550661271 347573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60008&oldid=60007 5* 03Helen 5* (+1005) 10Added a section for common algorithms < 1550662048 218138 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550662335 701014 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550662640 790437 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᕫᕬᕭᕮᕯᕰᕱᕲᕳᕴᕵᕶᕷᕸᕹᕺᕻᕼᕽ᷂᷊᷀᷁᷃᷄᷅᷆᷇᷈᷉⨌⨍⨎⨏⨐㌀㌁兩硝硫硬碁碑磨礁礎秀租秩称稚稲稼稽稿穂穏穫突窃窒窟窮窯竜端符筒箇箋箸範篤簿籍籠粋粒粗粘粛粧糧糾紋紛紡索紫累紳紹絞絡継維綱網綻緊緒締緩緯緻縁縄縛縝繁繊繕繭繰罰罵罷羞羨翁翻翼耐耗聘聵肌肖肘肝股肢肩肪肯胆胎胞胴脂脅脇脊脚脱腎 < 1550662726 986197 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you're testing a font there < 1550662752 537813 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yah these are the new characters in the newest version of my font < 1550662782 819674 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that going? < 1550662810 953252 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got back into it yesterday and have been adding characters again < 1550662814 898700 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1550663257 281807 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refactored my ttf parser < 1550663303 624031 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://orenwatson.be/ttfinvread.htm < 1550663375 669611 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and wrote a program to compare the character inventories of two files < 1550663379 71305 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://orenwatson.be/invcmp.htm < 1550663463 375967 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allowed me to more easily get a list of which characters exist in a new ttf as opposed to the old one < 1550664353 726971 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550664714 446026 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1550665868 857488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60009&oldid=59992 5* 03A 5* (+458) 10 > 1550665921 579651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60010&oldid=60009 5* 03A 5* (-18) 10/* Examples */ > 1550666660 63055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60011&oldid=60008 5* 03Helen 5* (+31) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ Corrected myself on my statement about a subtraction algorithm < 1550667610 118450 :Meme19!d036539f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.83.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550668155 119756 :Meme19!d036539f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.83.159 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1550668224 80058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60012&oldid=60010 5* 03A 5* (-63) 10/* Examples */ > 1550668249 648592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60013&oldid=60012 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* Machine code interpreter */ > 1550668523 626344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60014&oldid=60011 5* 03A 5* (-96) 10Division would be unneccesary, since subtraction is not yet implemented. > 1550668550 865416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60015&oldid=60014 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ < 1550669130 728283 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550673464 593713 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is there an efficient way to verify that there are no characters that look exaclty the same? < 1550673631 332721 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I loaded all chars into memry at same time it would be uhh < 1550673695 442251 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort them graphically in some way? < 1550673749 937168 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah < 1550673775 8820 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the characters are represented as 18x16 bitmaps < 1550673783 474829 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are definitely sorting algorithms designed so you don't load everything at once < 1550673825 935489 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could just output those as strigs somehow < 1550673838 12237 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or numbers < 1550673838 63309 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use gnu sort? < 1550673891 5627 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 divides 6 evenly so each pixel row could be 3 base64 digits < 1550673929 935444 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gnu sort use a mergesort on large files? < 1550674058 617399 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, never mind the data isn't *that* large, only 2 megabytes < 1550674067 987670 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use qsort < 1550674099 689393 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n = 2 * 2^20 in n * log n < 1550674101 462209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.052633491611866e7 < 1550674138 265474 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take a bit < 1550674182 139684 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do integer sorting in n * sqrt(log log n) < 1550674215 74731 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's right < 1550674224 170362 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exactly what something like radix sort is good for < 1550674403 231699 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550674408 366178 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah. If I keep splitting the dataset based on each bit then when I'm at the last one, I'll have verified whether there are any repeats < 1550674443 603505 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ 16*18 < 1550674445 357999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1179648 < 1550674456 682314 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ (16*18) < 1550674458 363169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4973232364097866421553822481468208401004561507973477174404639768931594970125... < 1550674474 354910 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's certainly a lot of possible characters... < 1550674656 856424 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but most of those possibilities look like white noise < 1550674695 914194 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the goals of my font is to as much as possible keep characters looking distinct from each other < 1550674702 456885 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm < 1550674787 277224 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I'll do is make two buffers < 1550674800 860658 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each containing pointers to bitmaps < 1550674824 844807 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a loop split the buffer by one bit < 1550674854 667951 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also make a giant hashmap with a reasonable hash function for each character < 1550674884 52360 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm or maybe double buffering is overkill < 1550674921 523296 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many recursion levels can tpyical C environment handle < 1550674941 157855 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>16*18 < 1550674948 785563 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 16 * 18 < 1550674950 640823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 288 < 1550675001 799747 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think I'll do the loop instead even if I have to be clever < 1550675084 163257 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused < 1550675102 268553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['\0'..] * 18*2 -- bytes < 1550675104 643708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 40108032 < 1550675138 893411 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last ['\0'..] < 1550675140 536452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\1114111' < 1550675184 190493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure orin has fewer glyphs than that. :) < 1550675195 64015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sorting them all to find duplicates shouldn't be a big deal, really. < 1550675214 49246 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I've got 21130 < 1550675337 314019 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550675346 643326 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, catching up is hard. " I'll use qsort" < 1550675392 858654 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's fun to overthink things < 1550675420 48369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( overthinking, what does that even mean? ) < 1550675447 111268 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's more problematic is that there will be duplicates < 1550675486 41940 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's what I'm trying to find < 1550675500 433254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode oоο < 1550675501 171288 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] [U+03BF GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON] < 1550675502 246445 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are duplicates I want to knwo what they are < 1550675516 42562 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thsoe all look different in my font < 1550675538 411816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems awkward. :) < 1550675554 720036 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyrillic о is more squarish and greek ο is shorter < 1550675601 993510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ΕЕE HНΗ < 1550675612 203162 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still different. < 1550675627 594651 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried about the math symbols and such < 1550675693 474327 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know... " " < 1550675704 845618 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all different < 1550675743 137994 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :em space is shown with little letters saing "EMSP" < 1550675785 3240 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some environments stubbornly refuse to show any glyph for space characters < 1550675786 821775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :⛐⛐⛐ < 1550675804 112265 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I don't even < 1550675811 482113 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ⛐ < 1550675812 668167 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+26D0 CAR SLIDING \ UTF-8: e2 9b 90 UTF-16BE: 26d0 Decimal: ⛐ \ ⛐ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1550675815 513397 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550675816 995801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1550675825 868227 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't draw that one yet < 1550675857 925 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm < 1550675924 943798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"⠀ " < 1550675931 9230 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about invisible plus vs invisible minus? < 1550675972 441897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: dym times, rather than minus? < 1550676072 135723 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to update my cjkwidth function, some charactrs are being whown the wrong width < 1550676133 466787 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of these need to be redrawn becuase they became emoji and thus became wide < 1550676139 925893 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. ♋ < 1550676204 208125 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm or maybe it's better to leave them... I'll think about it < 1550676256 59598 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a 69 emoji? that will be so misused < 1550676298 730872 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it's the Cancer astrological sign lol < 1550676312 256230 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference :D < 1550676329 140727 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree emojis have become a cancer < 1550676410 667582 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550676429 241645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: there are emoji modifiers as well < 1550676474 642141 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i've yet to find a terminal, or terminal-oriented program, that handles those things correctly or at all really < 1550676507 476948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` unidecode $(unicode 1F9B0) < 1550676508 676868 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+1F9B0 - No such unicode character name in database] < 1550676546 609858 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode Character 'EMOJI COMPONENT RED HAIR' (U+1F9B0) < 1550676592 186068 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm secretly waiting for the emoji part of Unicode to become TC. < 1550676774 670632 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my font includes some emoji but browsers and even some terminals simply refuse to display them in my font < 1550676786 734108 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :😓 < 1550676814 500579 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm focusing on non-emojis < 1550676887 272774 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :emojis can be handled by some other lunatic, this lunatic is working on pixelating every possible mathematic operator and all the most common kanji < 1550679852 863668 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow google is pushing ahead with crippling ad blockers < 1550679868 201630 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they are, ads are their main source of income < 1550679915 910103 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they gave a press release that superficially appears to back down but actually doesn't < 1550680240 441821 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot newspapers are reporting that google won't block ad blockers < 1550680278 202560 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another clarification is that the webRequest API is not going to be fully removed as part of Manifest V3. In particular, there are currently no planned changes to the observational capabilities of webRequest (i.e., anything that does not modify the request)." < 1550680320 615110 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ meanwhile, in reality, the post confirms that ublock and other ad blockers will no longer be allowed to use the existing API to filter content < 1550680342 886242 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only "observe" it < 1550680356 823114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"would have blocked 10/11 requests" < 1550680380 943650 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/chromium-extensions/WcZ42Iqon_M < 1550680392 450570 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the full post < 1550680408 481863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/20/google_nest_secret_microphone/ is nicely written < 1550680421 236946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unrelated, except it's also about Google) < 1550680441 288333 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I never switched to chrome in the first place < 1550680504 824690 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dynamic Rule Support: We agree that this is valuable in creating sophisticated content blocking extensions, and will be adding support for declarative rules that can be added or removed at runtime to the declarativeNetRequest API." ... uh, right, that's not what we mean by dynamic blocking. < 1550680572 600046 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe such weasel. much handwave. wow < 1550680802 115947 :Hydra_!adad1c29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.173.28.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550680966 3112 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they are aware that people can tell whether ads are being blocked? < 1550681004 568653 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how this won't lead to a large exodus of adblock users to other browsers < 1550681006 617564 :Hydra_!adad1c29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.173.28.41 QUIT :Client Quit < 1550681082 458836 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as long as they won't sync with your bookmarks and passwords, that may be hard < 1550681097 116733 :Erika!adad1c29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.173.28.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550681107 542375 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobile devices < 1550681112 836766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1550681141 841614 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that < 1550681146 86031 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple devices as well < 1550681149 547506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though there the trend seems to be not to have a website but a custom app) < 1550681151 929194 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I use firefox on mobile < 1550681158 452505 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google did forbid chromium forks to sync < 1550681160 853686 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use any website-apps < 1550681174 204742 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobile browsers all suck < 1550681181 676166 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the duet mode in chrome dev is nice < 1550681186 56490 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox munges chromium bookmarks < 1550681190 629019 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about passwords < 1550681229 148190 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the timing of these changes is also interesting < 1550681239 968093 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1550681253 981037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is happening shortly after MS announced they're discontinuing Edge... https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/4/18125238/microsoft-chrome-browser-windows-10-edge-chromium < 1550681262 492261 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a website and an app I always use the website. having so few apps means my phone battery lasts much longer than my dad's < 1550681308 131285 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's sus < 1550681378 404979 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on what you do imho < 1550681567 742555 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: well my dad has all these apps he rarely uses constantly loading new messeges and content whereas my phone only does this when I visit a website < 1550681576 132031 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550681612 684510 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone therefore does less work when I'm not using it < 1550681632 697187 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result only needs charging every 4 or 5 days < 1550681646 100609 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's crap. but there are services where an app does provide additional features < 1550681677 712445 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i will always take the youtube app over the website < 1550681695 860836 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't block ads in the youtube app < 1550681701 688229 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has less features < 1550681722 934612 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wastes data < 1550681743 692896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can't block ads in the youtube app" is the main reason for all those apps, I'm afraid < 1550681762 626040 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. firefox mobile with ublock origin < 1550681907 897866 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can watch youtube on mibile with no ads, and look at another website while it plays < 1550681923 138645 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all features that the youtube app deliberately does not have < 1550681959 122784 :Erika!adad1c29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.173.28.41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550681973 38435 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :billionaires hate him! this 1 cool trick < 1550682116 274860 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1550682228 774245 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: maybe _you_ can't < 1550682289 915097 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can watch a video while doing whatever you want < 1550682290 158260 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: oh are you paying for redtube, er, youtube red, er, youtube premium? < 1550682316 455849 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: http://vanced.app < 1550682353 645361 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, that's an extra app < 1550682371 644929 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't go for these extra apps < 1550682391 766356 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1550682414 11044 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the rooted way just replaces it < 1550682456 214678 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use firefox < 1550682487 635999 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1550682504 539597 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchlist handling is horrible in browser < 1550682534 479703 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchlist? < 1550682537 942058 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1550682660 743796 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just hit "request desktop site" if your phone has high DPI < 1550682760 689879 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website lacks features the app has < 1550682873 993932 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really go for watchlists as much as super long videos < 1550682884 305370 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX2-yTicXs0 liek this < 1550683074 543173 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I hate the slight lag betweeen longs in playlists < 1550683079 90597 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :songs < 1550683154 852206 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely use youtube for music < 1550683193 663196 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely use youtube for anything except music < 1550683605 430673 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550685583 200922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitBounce14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60016 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+12154) 10Publish BitBounce > 1550685645 468939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60017&oldid=59915 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10Add BitBounce to the list < 1550687386 372942 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nike shoes "bricked" by android app < 1550687400 917717 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intenet of shit < 1550687575 376344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550687930 983002 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird fact: 0x64 == 0144 == 100 < 1550687967 830380 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is weird because all of those are squares in decimal < 1550689433 308064 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :U-FF60 to U-FF9F can augment ascii to form a base-128 system. this has the advantage of looking like the matrix raining code < 1550689555 745402 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore the computers in the matrix must have used 7-bit groupings < 1550690336 156081 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, in this version fo base 128, the number ｲｪpK is 57681234 in dec < 1550691147 310167 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1550693460 53900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550694588 374597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-width kana? < 1550694614 112318 :tswett!405596a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.85.150.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550694644 782769 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1550694676 829228 :tswett!405596a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.85.150.167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey everyone. < 1550694715 324473 :tswett!405596a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.85.150.167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to get kinda desperate for work. If anyone's got stuff that needs doing, let me know. < 1550694952 418613 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550695391 900340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: gcc allows a little bit of control over function calling conventions, but not as much as you're asking for. https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.2.0/gcc/x86-Function-Attributes.html#x86-Function-Attributes < 1550695402 426130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tha's for C and C++) < 1550695525 124127 :tswett!405596a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.85.150.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550695532 568094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tswett < 1550695680 624553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think it's very practical in a language like C or C++ > 1550695705 429236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60018&oldid=59949 5* 03Cortex 5* (+725) 10 > 1550696374 571959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60019&oldid=60018 5* 03Cortex 5* (+21) 10 < 1550697671 619824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190219.html < 1550697672 654105 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190219.html: b_jonas < 1550700254 791521 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550700624 422080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^metar LHBU < 1550700627 494532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^metar LHBP < 1550700630 842991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LHBP < 1550700631 128342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHBP 202200Z VRB01KT CAVOK M02/M02 Q1025 NOSIG < 1550700695 667475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550701444 692259 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vvutafqsbcthpaee QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550701508 400565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitBounce14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60020&oldid=60016 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10fixed typo < 1550701508 768473 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550701523 671959 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1550702298 774944 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmymlhaawszrrbpi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550704839 945218 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550705636 668256 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550705966 313167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: imo what if snprintf was a coroutine that you could resume with a new buffer if it runs out of space? < 1550706025 107405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocoa coated co-cones < 1550706667 41334 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550706856 18937 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1550706969 116257 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550707453 978959 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550707512 998065 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550707621 999914 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550707714 424846 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550707714 532800 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550709306 712157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550709647 995554 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ecbkjtjwimwsnpdq QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550709694 471567 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pwmpzsduiwxwlngb JOIN :#esoteric < 1550709983 400473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-113.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550710289 926831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550713445 922905 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmymlhaawszrrbpi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550714411 331966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell orin this is weird because all of those are squares in decimal <-- it's not as random as you think, because 100 and 144 are square in _all_ bases. < 1550714411 412952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550714449 966928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, big enough to have them) < 1550714496 598119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what about 64 < 1550714511 306128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [6*n+4 | n <- [1..16]] < 1550714513 196154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [10,16,22,28,34,40,46,52,58,64,70,76,82,88,94,100] < 1550714530 472344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does seem more coincidental < 1550714584 855946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 2,10,16 only < 1550714709 448088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm n needs to be even, and then it's 3*(n/2) + 1 < 1550714821 460119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the squares of odd numbers * 2 < 1550714841 255022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1550714951 577594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't that right < 1550714989 688637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's the square of numbers not divisible by 3, * 2 < 1550715123 901714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(3*n+i)^2 | n<-[0..], i<-[1,2]] < 1550715125 732789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,4,16,25,49,64,100,121,169,196,256,289,361,400,484,529,625,676,784,841,961... < 1550715130 152602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1550715141 172837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(3*n+i)^2*4 | n<-[0..], i<-[1,2]] < 1550715143 1389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,16,64,100,196,256,400,484,676,784,1024,1156,1444,1600,1936,2116,2500,2704... < 1550716347 707705 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that 100 is square in all bases is pretty obvious < 1550716360 84198 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally 1*b² < 1550716458 961105 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550716510 84045 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 121 will be square in all bases too < 1550716643 8439 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550716724 947883 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550717154 626708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? imo < 1550717155 583008 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550717538 242656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 169 < 1550717552 649346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others, but then it's too big for base 10 < 1550717592 637993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 1 hth < 1550717598 405034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1550717602 487177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 and 9 < 1550717606 421408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 10000 < 1550717628 190317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now prove that they all have odd length < 1550717637 708100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( i think? ) < 1550717661 651728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or disprove, if you disagree < 1550717710 572187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :length 2 is pretty obviously impossible < 1550717840 706783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure about the larger even ones, just a hunch < 1550717888 798754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it can be seen as a polynomial problem < 1550717948 810673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe evens can work even if they cannot be a square of a polynomial < 1550718217 368678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not. http://www.isibang.ac.in/~sury/polys.pdf Section 3. (via https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1157780/polynomials-such-that-pk-ql-for-all-integer-k/1157825#1157825) < 1550718810 12522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the proof of Lemma 3.2 has a gap, this isn't a direct application of Lemma 3.1... I guess the trick is to use P_1'(x)P_2(x)...P_r(x) in the proof of lemma 3.2, instead of just P_1'(x)? < 1550718822 873900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when using Bezout) < 1550718883 383829 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last 3.2 should be 3.1 < 1550719297 311297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh this really is less miraculous than it may seem at first... 100 in base n is 144 in base (n-2), for all n > 6. < 1550719339 239259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the 64 is still an accident :) < 1550720937 273272 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550721252 706254 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any deep reason why 10^0.3 is so close to 2 < 1550721265 49792 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this just a very convenient coïncidence for engineers? < 1550721395 386834 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who pretty much assume 3 dB = factor of 2 < 1550721435 997726 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also means 2^10 = 30 dB = 1000 < 1550721466 419502 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is amusingly the same probably as kB vs KiB < 1550721473 30988 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I think dB should be used for more things < 1550721509 625039 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. probability < 1550721528 630539 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can bayes rule with only addition < 1550721536 400703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure, whether 0 dB should be 1 or 0.5 or what < 1550721626 80860 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 dB = 1 seems most natural to me, but this lesswrong article uses 0.5 https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/GDLP8MjvyhK3wx6hc/the-quick-bayes-table < 1550721640 855112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if there's anyone I trust to massively overthink this sort of thing, it's the Rationalists < 1550721692 745108 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend lives in a Rationalist group house and they have whiteboards all over the walls with prediction markets for various events, ranging from personal to worldwide < 1550721734 701073 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550721812 341056 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems a touch silly. < 1550721828 231194 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last part? < 1550721839 923398 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1550721852 459525 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i agree < 1550721857 210643 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think anyone takes it that seriously < 1550721867 216620 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they play for fake points iirc < 1550721896 923829 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually sounds about right really. < 1550721914 913606 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could say it's practice for honing one's probability estimating skills < 1550721947 72566 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationalism is... interesting < 1550721959 68358 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite a doomsday sex cult, but it's not entirely NOT a doomsday sex cult < 1550721981 240558 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get me wrong though, I'm all about a sex cult. :P < 1550722025 692915 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550722121 76575 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would be more appealing if not for various stories I've heard about people behaving badly < 1550722140 188117 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaah, that sort of thing can go wrong pretty easily. < 1550722160 195502 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm exactly the sort of person that's easily susceptible to that, so < 1550722237 384514 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm friends with some self-identified rationalists, and dating one, but I don't have any desire to get closer than that. it enriches my life in small doses < 1550722244 423026 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :their solstice service was lovely < 1550722305 814266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to a few MIRI workshops and I'm going to another one next month. < 1550722320 450775 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they got you < 1550722328 985619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they? < 1550722336 432917 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: have you run into edwardk now that he works at MIRI? < 1550722348 934875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he's been at the workshops. < 1550722352 646609 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1550722405 774339 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edfuamgiipmksahk JOIN :#esoteric < 1550722464 506709 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such Bay Area. < 1550722480 582522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hikhq < 1550722485 875621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when are you moving back to the bay are twh < 1550722487 526756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1550722491 927288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( should MIRI worry about time-travelling Terminators ) < 1550722513 20198 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my current job gives me a 100% raise, I might consider it. < 1550722521 424467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1550722524 898262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you done studenting < 1550722544 559205 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I started as an SRE at a company in Denver last month. < 1550722555 156564 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have a BS in applied math now. < 1550722614 347334 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lemme tell you, 6 figure income goes a lot further when your rent is under $1k. < 1550722681 825831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rent when i worked at google was $500 or something < 1550722701 337557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was a small windowless room, which i don't think is quite legal < 1550722710 167005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i was woken up by a burglar in the room < 1550722719 829825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times < 1550722722 597149 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is for a whole apartment < 1550722734 245494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1550722744 663494 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I doubt that room is $500 now. :) < 1550722756 288346 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's out in, like, Gilroy, too. < 1550722763 816832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was east palo alto < 1550722767 407123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1550722795 205852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have you considered moving to the bay area and also getting a 100% raise < 1550722826 116821 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that getting both is possible, and also I honestly like Colorado. < 1550722865 770569 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for that matter, my current job < 1550723005 434975 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i moved from the Castro to the Sunset to Montana < 1550723035 407784 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooot interested in going back to the bay area < 1550723046 626559 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May also help to know Colorado is my _home_, so < 1550723072 848584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :home is where your cat is < 1550723092 766469 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Da nyaa? < 1550723656 457185 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't move to the bay area < 1550723665 598816 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people i know here want to leave < 1550723675 597894 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :our most likely plan is to move to the Denver area < 1550723688 578917 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime within the next year or two < 1550723688 974680 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to Colorado, we have weather < 1550723689 326533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still very much up in the air < 1550723694 334616 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1550723696 175695 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Colorado < 1550723716 845534 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shares one of the main things I love about here (lots of awesome natural areas nearby) < 1550723728 878530 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and weed < 1550723780 242676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: one time you said that if you moved to sf you'd eat burritos every day < 1550723782 607584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true/false < 1550723795 229688 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I? < 1550723808 152216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so? < 1550723835 734404 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our burritos are perhaps inferior, but they are at least quite readily available. < 1550723855 170933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how come you aren't in any unlogged offtopic channels that i'm in tdnh < 1550723866 492392 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1550723880 458570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the one you made < 1550723881 299851 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorado is probably a better fit for me politically too < 1550723902 910214 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liberal, but not actively disfunctional? < 1550723913 995070 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1550723926 784100 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :socially liberal, but with a libertarian streak < 1550723948 459918 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like most Montana cities < 1550723974 873557 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside the cities it’s v red :( < 1550723982 864820 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the state level laws for LGBT people (for example) suck in MT < 1550724000 519174 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a bit of a dealbreaker for me. < 1550724001 823228 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HRC puts MT in their lowest category and CO in the highest < 1550724069 489093 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the urban vs. rural divide is sharp in almost every state < 1550724076 880917 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big cities go blue even in the reddest of states < 1550724130 409098 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that anywhere in MT counts as a _big_ city. < 1550724209 814964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1550724295 127919 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah < 1550724330 384949 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone asked me what the nearby “big city” was (I’m in Missoula) < 1550724337 372051 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like... this is it < 1550724384 680468 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1550724420 291492 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my hometown of Des Moines is substantially bigger than missoula (or billings) < 1550724420 602665 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By their definition of "big", pretty sure the "nearby" one would probably be something like Seattle, Salt Lake, or Denver. < 1550724436 690907 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of which are all that close. < 1550724445 832014 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, or maybe Spokane (3 hours) < 1550724465 48074 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, Spokane. < 1550724485 978074 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go there for Trader Joe’s < 1550724504 289345 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also not really a big one, but it'd probably at least register as a city with them. < 1550724566 80422 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you drive 3 hours to get to trader joe's? < 1550724582 511385 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, TJ's is pretty awesome but that seems excessive < 1550724610 984892 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you live in more rural parts of the country you just get used to much longer travel times. < 1550724620 273309 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1550724639 995627 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mom for a while had a 2 hour *commute*. < 1550724644 380961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is your brain on carz < 1550724667 893978 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a few times a year < 1550724686 205919 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my wife has a 3 hour per day commute :( < 1550724690 23001 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but she's on a bus with wifi and such < 1550724700 229933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: fair enough < 1550724705 425375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2 hours each way? < 1550724707 716071 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I visit places 3 hours away at least a few times a year < 1550724744 395545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo that's a lot of hours < 1550724750 614343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you draw me a commutative diagram < 1550724766 581960 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes < 1550724814 551452 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About... 133 miles. < 1550724833 980733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bay area commutes are really bad cause we can't build dense transit-oriented housing < 1550724908 791006 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love the environment soooooo much that we hold up transit and housing for decades in "environmental review" < 1550724976 825397 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead people spend hours and hours per day driving < 1550724979 827292 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :love that environment < 1550724986 49407 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, gotta consider the risks to the environment from getting rid of cars < 1550725082 193792 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.redd.it/gilx3e4wcsh21.jpg < 1550725160 93661 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :“environment” in California means “impact on nimbys” > 1550726881 144414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60021&oldid=60003 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+41) 10/* Examples */ The language demands this example < 1550726997 176762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose this is the other kind of esoteric > 1550727741 159487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60022&oldid=59968 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+73) 10/* How to write quines */ Add obvious technical requirement (and sweep a bit of prior discussion under the "freely" carpet) < 1550728137 371832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you see that paper about a compacting malloc < 1550728152 14589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.04738 < 1550728239 645136 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550728505 687087 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550729913 637238 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550730122 963923 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edfuamgiipmksahk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550731324 820159 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550734478 769481 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550734764 758412 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550734802 677682 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550734819 238382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550735371 220870 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydpqgrfsmcdxhdre JOIN :#esoteric < 1550736184 895185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550736954 59523 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550738501 64151 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550741167 41519 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550741990 640783 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550743323 915845 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydpqgrfsmcdxhdre QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550744011 405758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dev cat 5* 10New user account < 1550744871 328335 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550745023 475646 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550745749 853605 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550748107 645249 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550748799 123634 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550750768 248154 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550750955 13526 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550750955 336593 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550752281 684217 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550752382 530860 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1550752481 673483 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550754046 517809 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550754516 517381 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550760545 112091 :TellsTogo!d458fc09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.252.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550760807 133101 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550760874 686732 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550761034 951339 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550761445 717938 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550761626 657127 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550763172 63024 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wulsxmqaetnglxka JOIN :#esoteric < 1550763281 636553 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550763333 682001 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550763470 663959 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550763476 34605 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 NICK :MDude < 1550763507 400283 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550763513 669426 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550763903 657096 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550765912 672886 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550766332 635930 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550766904 312480 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550769016 232043 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550771654 634294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550772154 103783 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wulsxmqaetnglxka QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550773079 137077 :TellsTogo!d458fc09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.252.9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550773112 298786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550773171 764310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e i was too tired to look at the paper you linked yesterday, so i put it aside, and then before i looked back at it i'd found a simpler proof myself. < 1550773171 844978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550773232 146479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e well, beyond the first section that mentioned that you could multiply by n! to get integer coefficients, which is my first step (multiplying by (n!)^k) < 1550773232 205129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550773267 214960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e Second: if P(0) = a^k, replace P(x) by P(x+a) to get 0th coefficient 0. < 1550773267 307978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550773584 541530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Third: If a_i is the first non-zero coefficient of the polynomial, but i < k, and p is a prime, then p^i divides P(p), thus p^(i+1) | p^k | P(p), thus a_i p^i | p^(i+1) and a_i | p. But p was arbitrary so a_i = 0. < 1550773584 625000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550773720 823441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e Oops, wait, that P(x) to P(x+a) step is wrong isn't it. Darn. < 1550773720 904916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1550773747 635470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it. < 1550773847 15174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and _now_ my brain is tired again. < 1550773957 226604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1550774545 50197 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jyawystlxkefzqsj JOIN :#esoteric < 1550775608 225476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? code < 1550775615 441811 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... < 1550775730 826984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget link < 1550775731 991335 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove 'wisdom/link': No such file or directory < 1550775734 391965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget links < 1550775736 983341 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1550776041 235054 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550776045 682249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? e-module < 1550776046 819277 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E-modules are modules over a web ring. Uaneb invented them. < 1550776068 576853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zomgmodules < 1550776069 731771 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMGMODULES is both a small blonde veterinarian and just modules over the ring of ZOMGs. < 1550776101 753833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? d-module < 1550776102 934935 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. < 1550776671 503036 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?ring < 1550776672 86635 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?ring: not found < 1550776675 329364 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ring < 1550776676 579292 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. < 1550776695 837024 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550776697 967245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`last wisdom/links < 1550776698 425638 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :last: cannot open /var/log/wtmp: No such file or directory < 1550776715 836007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dontaskdonttelllist < 1550776716 403688 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia myname int-e < 1550776723 646193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^^ < 1550776726 723564 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1550776869 538405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg cat -r9527 wisdom/links # int-e: < 1550776870 603368 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. < 1550776897 514153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1550776906 602589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget code < 1550776908 208808 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1550776942 443523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC that was a fungot quote, so devoid of information :P) < 1550776942 718437 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and what of it? i couldn't find anything in the cl way. that's why we need hygienic quasiquote < 1550776965 295951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sounds exciting, carry on < 1550776965 582375 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: make it not heap allocated. i donŽt have any how to do with timing and velocity, basic ai routines, etc < 1550777016 187403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1550777109 896658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url < 1550777110 571938 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ < 1550777209 462740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cats # pfft. < 1550777209 986053 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/tail: option used in invalid context -- 1 < 1550777214 172108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cats # pfft. < 1550777214 742409 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meow meow meow meow < 1550777263 592613 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt cbt < 1550777264 266309 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat bin/"$1" < 1550777404 863542 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`main HackEso < 1550777406 421738 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: main: not found < 1550777411 133874 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`maim HackEso < 1550777412 517976 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso just froze off their fingers! < 1550777419 115514 :TellsTogo!3ecd5cf9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.92.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550777498 324264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/satan < 1550777499 715764 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550777593 152718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I thought there was a command for that (cat last version of deleted file) but I may be imagining things. (It certainly sounds like a command that we should have.) < 1550777649 183342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`¿ fungot < 1550777649 424063 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well that's stupid :p they'll send invitations soon to the people who ' /quit'? you'd never reach total fnord. oli tosin fnord fnord fnord < 1550777651 37459 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nosaer fo eciov dna tocsam lennahc devoleb ruo si tognuf < 1550777659 766873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`before wisdom/links < 1550777661 977786 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. < 1550777665 391734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah! < 1550777675 256969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks shachaf < 1550777675 887662 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, shachaf. Thachaf. < 1550777686 137358 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` thanks shachaf | shachaf1sum < 1550777686 790436 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6ro3on25ro57osq9s333s90o7r00s78501o4r165 - < 1550777745 489807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why are you on dadtl < 1550777829 694667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 95% of the time highlighting me here will work just fine. < 1550778138 491176 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dadtl < 1550778139 964930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dadtl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550778156 301388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: dontaskdonttelllist < 1550778171 163543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It took me a minute to figure that out, and I had the right context.) < 1550778188 133066 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550778189 324954 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tinking dad time line < 1550778233 901096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... whatever that may be. < 1550778413 890215 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4 < 1550778650 715194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hmm < 1550778651 735425 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550778657 301348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "hmm" is one of the most expressive words in the english language, which is very impressive indeed because it has no vowels at all! ) < 1550779169 101115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, one of the few bits of Finnish from fungot's IRC dataset there. < 1550779169 275033 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that seems to have separated from the srfi set.' < 1550779177 72313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("oli tosin fnord fnord fnord"). < 1550780423 381140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t tell . Endo . (:) < 1550780424 515194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadWriter (Endo [a]) m => a -> m () < 1550780806 240256 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550781055 215703 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550782878 330349 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550783448 408045 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550784084 616743 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550784368 622700 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550785294 593985 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should finish my terminal-based font editor so I don't have to use fontforge < 1550785357 864458 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT I built most of it except the save function < 1550785376 903019 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of the most important part of an editor lol < 1550785386 256708 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess right now it's a font viewer < 1550785492 556006 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/bdfedit.htm < 1550785566 690130 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently I didn't implement adding new characters either < 1550786179 395316 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, as a challenge I did it without using ncurses < 1550787631 112827 :TellsTogo!3ecd5cf9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.92.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550787933 960660 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550790130 121270 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550790878 862870 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550791203 314389 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550793192 717643 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550794015 658310 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550794190 764682 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550794191 234539 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550794245 853370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550794372 40016 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of font are you making orin < 1550794522 361240 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I am working on a terminal/pixel font, 16 pixels tall and 9 or 18 pixels wide, supporting lots of unicode characters < 1550794550 258534 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm < 1550794630 430400 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: currently supports european languages, korean, hebrew, arabic, and devanagari, as well as a lot of japanese but not all < 1550794640 143652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of characters < 1550794681 697106 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: 21130 so far < 1550794697 668916 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you drew each one? < 1550794714 151850 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I drew all of the non-hangul < 1550794731 157768 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which is 9958 in total < 1550794757 27065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: imo why do you have yiddish text there < 1550794757 309410 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hangul I drew the components and wrote a program to combine them < 1550794759 212637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :more ligatures? < 1550794824 739895 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes iirc. it's been a year since I worked on this < 1550794867 863413 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ideally I need a sample text with the hebrew dots to demonstrate it supports them < 1550794879 964734 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nikkudots? < 1550794905 755697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, a cross-language portmanteau < 1550795861 969070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550795974 626359 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550795974 729395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1550796000 869117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( He can never remember the dontaskdonttelllist, so he put it here for convenience. ) < 1550796043 603078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: don't you run lambdabot? make your own dontaskdonttelllist hth < 1550796187 715660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It sometimes happens that people ask lambabot related questions via @ask/@tell, for example because they are from a channel that I'm not in. So blocking @tells to me on the lambdabot side is not really feasible. < 1550796201 72440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help auto-reply < 1550796201 115567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-reply. Lets lambda-bot auto-reply if someone sends you a message < 1550796248 604504 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550796301 623887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny that this help message spells lambdabot with a hyphen. < 1550796332 802938 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> git grep lambda-bot < 1550796332 971741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot-social-plugins/src/Lambdabot/Plugin/Social/Tell.hs: { help = say "auto-reply. Lets lambda-bot auto-reply if someone sends you a message" < 1550796334 784698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1550796334 851580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Variable not in scope: git :: t0 -> t1 -> a < 1550796334 891084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1550796341 388737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1550796341 433128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1550796345 28060 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oops0 < 1550796346 836485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1550797653 112812 :TellsTogo!d458fc8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.252.140 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550798067 663711 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550799254 473356 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550799514 388717 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1550800203 936651 :TellsTogo!d458fc8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.252.140 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1550802726 481636 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jyawystlxkefzqsj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550805160 159309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CNatcharian 5* 10New user account > 1550805307 370027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60023&oldid=59994 5* 03CNatcharian 5* (+204) 10 < 1550805755 257030 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550806003 271692 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550806109 585980 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, save function is now working. need to optimize the BBX line tho < 1550806226 290923 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550806311 234444 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once that is done, I'll be ready to stop using the bloated fontforge to design my font < 1550808048 668405 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550809036 468703 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550809173 366745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Adamthekiwi 5* 10New user account > 1550809395 901374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60024&oldid=60023 5* 03Adamthekiwi 5* (+260) 10 < 1550809428 305839 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550809485 128358 :adamthekiwi!49719adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.113.154.223 JOIN :#esoteric > 1550810165 397928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Letterbox14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60025 5* 03CNatcharian 5* (+5476) 10Created the page < 1550810440 379481 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1550810609 819045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60026&oldid=60017 5* 03CNatcharian 5* (+16) 10/* L */ < 1550811022 571314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spots a flightless bird in the channel < 1550811805 114604 :adamthekiwi!49719adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.113.154.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550812081 567901 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550812938 989229 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1550812952 686728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :revelation! < 1550812962 932001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of what?) < 1550812967 140957 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have figured out how to correctly calculate the bounding box for a glyph in BDF format < 1550812980 904709 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output the coreect hex codes < 1550813035 150508 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whcih means soon I can say o revwar to fontforge in favor of bdfedit.c < 1550813122 60113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: but did you fix your build system yet twh < 1550813131 796434 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550813155 308566 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of my font revisions after this one will include fontforge's obnoxious < 1550813158 315264 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMENT "Generated by fontforge, http://fontforge.sourceforge.net" < 1550813165 295127 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the font file < 1550813195 990287 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with reference to sourceforge, the notorious malware site < 1550813289 153142 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I will be editing my font with a glorious C terminal program < 1550813964 317496 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://orenwatson.be/bdfedit.htm < 1550813972 314747 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still need to fully test it < 1550814161 883123 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 其 < 1550814163 115794 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+5176 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5176 \ UTF-8: e5 85 b6 UTF-16BE: 5176 Decimal: 其 \ 其 (其) \ Uppercase: U+5176 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) < 1550814457 295198 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/slDzqqc < 1550814470 894027 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ character now drawn using bdfedit.c < 1550814696 428808 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaded the bdf file to verify that it is valid and the character is in fact present < 1550814993 524292 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :converted to TTF using my bdf2ttf.c and vwala! it shows up in my font! < 1550815057 764105 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :end to end test is great success! < 1550815163 64936 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode .. < 1550815164 65143 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+002E FULL STOP \ UTF-8: 2e UTF-16BE: 002e Decimal: . \ . \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: CS (Common Number Separator) \ \ U+002E FULL STOP \ UTF-8: 2e UTF-16BE: 002e Decimal: . \ . \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: CS (Common Number Separator) < 1550815575 853906 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550815876 704753 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1550816173 734713 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 😍 < 1550816174 777470 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F60D SMILING FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES \ UTF-8: f0 9f 98 8d UTF-16BE: d83dde0d Decimal: 😍 \ 😍 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1550818565 132417 :adamthekiwi!49719adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.113.154.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550818574 197481 :adamthekiwi!49719adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.113.154.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy < 1550819034 457401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550819557 115241 :adamthekiwi!49719adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.113.154.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550823427 678531 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550824312 775880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc++ < 1550825255 591358 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550825332 825153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550825337 448096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fonts < 1550825338 817007 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ < 1550825345 320112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ^ orin's is among there < 1550825871 481683 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550827886 382056 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550828527 674338 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550829097 383652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1550829755 594054 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550830505 559572 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550830593 236442 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550830943 74334 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550831207 65969 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikyghjhgdsdwhbar JOIN :#esoteric < 1550831392 214792 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550832467 520075 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1550833691 217366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60027&oldid=59878 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+114) 10/* 99 Bottles */ better output > 1550833854 939012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60028&oldid=60027 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+22) 10/* External resources */ TC proof example link update and TC category < 1550834949 621940 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1550835274 911383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60029&oldid=60004 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+182) 10/* */ < 1550835938 15836 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode א < 1550835939 76192 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF \ UTF-8: d7 90 UTF-16BE: 05d0 Decimal: א \ א \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: R (Right-to-Left) > 1550835946 294430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60030&oldid=60029 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+587) 10/* The Waterfall Model */ < 1550837235 882647 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550837450 653832 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550837450 784147 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1550838153 394389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60031&oldid=58459 5* 03Puzzlet Chung 5* (-85) 10/* External resources */ < 1550839395 305034 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550839421 231704 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1550839445 745556 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1550841877 54418 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550845589 39901 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikyghjhgdsdwhbar QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550846970 958709 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550847486 776246 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-desetdooibsyzieo JOIN :#esoteric < 1550849613 553336 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric > 1550851807 936270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Onov14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60032 5* 03AIden 5* (+146) 10Created page with "This seems difficult to understand. Maybe you could add a picture? --~~~~" < 1550852343 319942 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hichaf < 1550854225 577164 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Quit: bye bye < 1550855430 529738 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1550856026 584837 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550856193 665545 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1550859389 46825 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-desetdooibsyzieo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550859490 124987 :CNatch!6b4d467c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.70.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550859614 198319 :CNatch!6b4d467c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.70.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\HELP < 1550859783 417274 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550859788 738590 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome CNatch < 1550859790 50631 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :07CNatch: 08Welcome 09to 02the 06international 13hub 04for 07esoteric 08programming 09language 02design 06and 13deployment! 04For 07more 08information, 09check 02out 06our 13wiki: 04. 07(For 08the 09other 02kind 06of 13esoterica, 04try 07#esoteric 08on 09EFnet 02or 06DALnet.) < 1550859881 118596 :CNatch!6b4d467c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.70.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550859991 960366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: higan < 1550860056 572430 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1550860058 348795 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh'ts new < 1550860091 953494 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550860094 762868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: new? < 1550860094 903732 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and hr definitely tells you something < 1550860122 254108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: since when do you relcome tdnh < 1550860183 142171 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've done that on occasion, when I'm not in the mood for `wElCoMe or `WeLcOmE < 1550860192 223389 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcom < 1550860192 736279 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcom: not found < 1550860202 238052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clearly an oversight < 1550860204 757059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`elcome < 1550860209 475213 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: . (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n Fnet r ALnet.) < 1550860245 618509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#soteric? < 1550860252 871010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt elcome < 1550860253 626870 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome "$@" | sed s/\\\<.//g < 1550860469 996419 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "two time pad" < 1550860470 687682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/2249/how-does-one-attack-a-two-time-pad-i-e-one-time-pad-with-key-reuse < 1550860521 301078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds unhygienic < 1550860533 473631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1550860541 441960 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also bad crypto < 1550860592 886376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something like OTP but less malleable? < 1550860696 980054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure... add a message authentication code. < 1550860986 242873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but some ways of encrypting things are malleable even without MACs. < 1550861024 130359 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+less? < 1550861055 771471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yes. < 1550861073 216206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, xor is pretty much a worst-case scenario. < 1550861082 941184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also use your favourite cipher to mix the bits thoroughly before using the OTP < 1550861116 789900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true. < 1550861138 516568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ciphers are passé. It's all about unkeyed permutations nowadays. < 1550861168 758657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bascially any nonlinear map, or possibly even a secret linear map (GCM seems to be using such a beast) < 1550861293 472754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gimli.cr.yp.to/ < 1550861393 265764 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1550861612 678418 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you attack it by adding them mod whatever < 1550861620 422667 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives you the modular sum of two plaintexts < 1550861626 996264 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can attack with frequency analysis or w/e < 1550862682 831838 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how does that work? is the key part of the plaintexT? < 1550862765 39053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: xor in itself isn't bad if you use it properly. and these days you don't have to carry long one-time pads either, because we have good methods to generate arbitrarily long crypto secure pseudo-random sequences and xor your things with it. < 1550862800 941687 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still have to make sure never to resuse the same part of the sequence, but that's still true even if you use something more complicated than xor, xor just might be slightly more trivial to attack if you do that than other schemes. < 1550862803 934464 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a stream cipher < 1550862805 708893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a nonce < 1550862812 161328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, exactly < 1550862852 435769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still have to be careful about following the protocols, and getting the key to the other party securely but never divulging it otherwise, and using proper secure random generators to get a key. < 1550862865 216842 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1550862960 284470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://gimli.cr.yp.to/gimli-20170627.pdf < 1550862967 320727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jules Verne's ''La Jangada'' is an example for what people did back when they didn't have such a nice crypto-secure key-extension scheme, so they just reused the same very short key repeated over and over in the same long message. < 1550862995 827078 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't have time to read a paper rn < 1550862996 38129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a bad way to do crypto, and in fact the outcome in the novel is that the crypto is eventually broken. < 1550863004 636124 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550863014 616647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, it wasn't so easy to use good crypto before computers. < 1550863042 520123 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think an electromechanical device like Enigma could be made nearly as secure as modern computer-based ciphers < 1550863050 365439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the theory to do so did not exist back then < 1550863059 412973 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it might have to be prohibitively expensive / large < 1550863060 900325 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1550863077 48057 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how to implement Salsa20 with gears and shit < 1550863078 910511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the Enigma wasn't secure, as history shows, and I don't think it was reasonably possible either back in the 19th century when Verne wrote those books < 1550863097 559211 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to try doing it by hand < 1550863116 450089 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know it wasn't secure, due to algorithmic design flaws < 1550863135 147287 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's fundamentally impossible to implement a secure cipher that way < 1550863140 321117 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also not thought about it in detail. < 1550863169 114952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't know if that'd be possible or not. I always think that crypto requires a bit more computation than you can do that way, but I'm not sure. < 1550863180 385045 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it wouldn't be particularly fast < 1550863184 4691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the operations can be simple < 1550863193 362993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Salsa20 you need 32-bit xor, 32-bit addition, and bitwise rotations < 1550863215 210869 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanical calculators existed, xor is even easier, rotations are trivial < 1550863227 922685 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could at the very least make a mechanical or electromechanical device that helps working Salsa20 by hand < 1550863233 607604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by implementing the basic ops < 1550863268 96583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that book has an unusually long message ciphered, it might be more practical to do something like that for very short messages, and those are still helpful in a war, like the original intent of the Enigma machines was < 1550863279 95491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550863286 389263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also made many operational mistakes with the enigma < 1550863348 947647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so long that I think the novel doesn't even quote the whole multi-page document, only the last paragraph. < 1550863358 894585 :grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :`-_-`grumble < 1550863380 138369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, there's the problem that you have to remember the secret key, but it's a war and you might be killed without having time to destroy physical evidence < 1550863386 223853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that can be a bit tricky < 1550863414 262322 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550863421 206821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be done if the soldiers using the machines were required to learn like a 160-bit secret key by heart, but it's not trivial < 1550863448 608835 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for salsa32 you also need a 512 bit storage < 1550863450 785081 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not trivial < 1550863473 889350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if they write temporary values on a sheet of paper, then they need to burn those sheets of papers properly < 1550863493 746692 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550863510 534279 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders lunch < 1550863677 325876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the only novel of Jules Verne that features cryptography. There are two more. < 1550863735 858733 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :''Mahtias Sandorf'' is another: in that one the crypto is broken because someone steals the physical copy of the key by a social engineering attack. < 1550863861 920438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, the first one is ''Voyage au centre de la Terre'', which uses even more insecure crypto than ''La Jangada'' < 1550863908 566892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that was admittedly a feature: A. S. wanted the message to be found and read in the future. < 1550863947 265449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just wanted to hide it a little because the inquisition was burning all his writings. < 1550864170 272574 :`-_-`grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble < 1550865798 779511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1550865882 667444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` welcome | perl -pe's/[a-z]\b//g' # int-e: let me try that < 1550865883 872606 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcom t th internationa hu fo esoteri programmin languag desig an deploymen! Fo mor informatio, chec ou ou wik: . (Fo th othe kin o esoteric, tr #esoteri o EFne o DALne.) < 1550865906 191669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what... that doesn't seem right < 1550865911 679380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1550865917 869583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually https and esolangs < 1550865927 409206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering why it didn't remove the p from the http and the g from the esolang < 1550866368 384331 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1550867057 30965 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on this ChaCha20-by-hand < 1550867095 16967 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I've made a table for 8 bit addition (with carry-out) < 1550867133 570423 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is to have a number of tables and worksheets so that you can do it fairly quickly w/o thinking very much < 1550867189 621165 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on 32 bit words as hex < 1550867192 732267 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is p. esoteric < 1550867214 671665 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition you can do with the grade school algorithm + a 4 or 8 bit addition table < 1550867225 694607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor is easy to do nibble-wise < 1550867382 432607 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550867482 719539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I know I can do addition and bitshift and all the other operations by hand, the question is more like how many of them you need for the crypto. < 1550867497 868783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know, I can do an addition by hand, but the computer can do a billion of them < 1550867501 863359 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotation is a bit harder, might need to convert to binary and back. I haven't thought about a clever way to do that < 1550867512 413030 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you knowledgable about the ChaCha20 algorithm? < 1550867521 269721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1550867565 249519 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each quarter-round has four additions, four XORs, and four rotations < 1550867583 884819 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and two of the rotations are multiples of 8, which makes things easier) < 1550867600 675722 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, usually I do additions and multiplications to only one and a half digit precision, but I know how to do them more precisely if I have to < 1550867608 123737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are 20 rounds < 1550867626 815892 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550867631 258586 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: four additions of what word length? < 1550867640 23082 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bits < 1550867647 418641 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all 32 bit math < 1550867657 331245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ok < 1550867801 138824 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's 960 32-bit operations per block, and each block gives you 512 bits < 1550867866 454679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimistically it could take 3 hours of nonstop work, which... okay, it's a lot < 1550867893 98514 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think it can really be parallelized, but you could have several people take turns < 1550867896 614860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that could be done, but there's not much point these days, because a small electronic device can do it too < 1550867906 29346 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :point? this is #esoteric < 1550867915 852100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1550867929 330702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do it with a mechanical computer < 1550867934 662477 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might! < 1550867941 267663 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use baudot code then 512 bits gives you about 100 characters, which is a pretty good size message < 1550867966 664401 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfmcnslhijdnzkfm JOIN :#esoteric < 1550867977 438051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that always reminds me of Mojo Jojo's speech, when he says "not with mechanical machines" and "with my own two hands" < 1550867986 960557 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm interested in secure communications after an EMP or other catastrophic event which renders most electronics unusable or difficult to find < 1550867992 261233 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a proof o concept < 1550867996 365572 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it could be done more efficiently < 1550868011 67169 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also simply use fewer rounds, if you don't expect a high capability attacker < 1550868039 551349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but I said *small* electronic device. even after an EMP some of those would survive. an older electronic calculator from the eighties. < 1550868049 258517 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1550868062 520177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or from the nineties < 1550868067 317703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultimately it is an arbitrary constrained problem for fun < 1550868071 902003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1550868093 601583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I have to rewatch that speech < 1550868107 984202 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1550868156 113348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in the Powerpuff Girls episode "Mr. Mojo's Rising", where Mojo Jojo does a strange victory speech on the particular way he's defeated the Powerpuff Girls < 1550868197 55550 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1550868197 796525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://powerpuffgirls.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Mojo%27s_Rising/Transcript has a transcript of the episode, the speech starts at "YES!! I have defeated the Powerpuff Girls!" < 1550868208 413409 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :episode title's a reference to a The Doors song :) < 1550868211 535634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's better with the actual audio and video < 1550868217 765382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can also find on the internet < 1550868267 293393 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC4 takes only 6ish byte operations per output byte < 1550868271 394406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but RC4 is pretty well broken < 1550868423 289069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's a second, shorter monologue at the end of the episode. Mojo Jojo is good in those. < 1550868476 30521 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmwfhangxvwstvbd JOIN :#esoteric < 1550868486 567902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he actually says "bare hands" rather than "two hands" < 1550868493 238097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic because he always wears gloves < 1550868585 728440 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550868672 186374 :aeyxa!2d3bd6aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.59.214.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550869506 136721 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550869742 67771 :aeyxa!2d3bd6aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.59.214.170 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1550870096 576918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever see this wooden adder? https://hackaday.com/2009/10/13/binary-adder-will-give-you-slivers/ < 1550870244 483128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's just a third-part article about Matthias Wandel's adder < 1550870277 460397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://woodgears.ca/marbleadd/ < 1550870345 107033 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmwfhangxvwstvbd QUIT : < 1550870356 550164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've also seen a water adder with no moving parts other than water and air in the pipes, but I'm not sure if it actually worked. it was exhibited in the Technisches Museum Wien, in a way that it didn't work, and it may have worked but the setup was a suspiciously plausibly deniable one < 1550870371 980508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which really looked like they rigged up to save face after they promised a water adder but couldn't get it work. < 1550870377 553448 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw water based gates as an old MIT project < 1550870416 29914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible to make such a thing work in principle, but they would have needed several more iterations of debugging and glassblowing, and just ran out of time. < 1550870471 182780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could add zero plus zero reliably though. < 1550870965 577845 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550871135 116991 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550871227 572177 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550871711 707061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC but that's quite different. < 1550871731 921668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first photo looks really familiar, but they say it's in New Zealand, and I haven't been there. < 1550871782 972273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess they could've had it do a tour in some other museum, though it doesn't look that portable.) < 1550871828 104474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, I don't think it's related < 1550871858 723898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they've built several. < 1550871858 945615 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550871868 771822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co64127/phillips-economic-computer-analog-computer is in the Science Museum here. < 1550871882 726396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/adder < 1550871905 110285 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's not a very good picture < 1550872620 150734 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550873020 591815 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550874825 95161 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550874847 515245 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550874905 575953 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Client Quit < 1550875224 657200 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550875475 974412 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550875500 362450 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550877198 953120 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550877350 44354 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550877528 253536 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550877613 11338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a idea of esolang that you can move a cursor and put black and white Go stones onto a infinite grid; if a stone is already there nothing happens, but otherwise you can attach a event code to the stone added and it is executed when that stone is captured. (I think you can make a tape out of this) < 1550877636 587445 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1550877887 889419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1550878074 394694 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60033&oldid=60031 5* 03Puzzlet Chung 5* (+13) 10/* External resources */ < 1550878081 132476 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550878537 326200 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550878751 126270 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550880479 881977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550880509 741449 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550880671 972038 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550880678 889253 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550881179 830589 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550882886 399229 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550883558 210867 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550883827 84594 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550884463 118299 :aeyxa!2d3bd6aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.59.214.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550884534 995635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/x86instructions/status/1099115314766401536 "JTNJ - Jump To Next JTNJ" < 1550885242 376146 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550885458 799235 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550885960 415706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --opcode 10 < 1550885961 188924 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :VFNMADDUP CLFLUSHF VFMADD132SD VPROL VCMPNE SCATTERNLOGD RDTSC VPCMPLT_OQPS VPXORW VCVTSS < 1550886067 293167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately I uppercased those for æsthetic reasons, which means they can't be meaningfully interpolated with any of the other `words which are all lowercase.) < 1550886126 378892 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550886224 252662 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1550886349 584897 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1550886350 944698 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elingth < 1550886463 32937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 10 < 1550886464 2851 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hansaittamassanoittele edustaamille lakseltansa raamme kuvittamallas hattomaa ohjaamaksentä afganisimmiltani korviltani myksemmetenkiehuville < 1550886479 783425 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1550886520 176214 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --polish 5 < 1550886521 104532 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zmetyczny nieokładowolutowa radiofalokorpcy eurowuję rozprę < 1550886541 779687 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550886679 691631 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like --opcode :D < 1550886688 236061 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --opcode 15 < 1550886689 24634 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSUBSB MOVUPS VGATHERDPD VCVTDQ VCMP CMOVQW MOVNZ KSHIFTRW VUNPCKLDQ KSHIFTRW VCMPGE VPSRAVD HINT VRCPPS SHADDB < 1550886707 485096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little too prone to actually generating existing opcodes. < 1550886715 230388 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550886718 215674 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like movups < 1550886737 582824 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or RDTSC before < 1550886738 550710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the data from the http://zem.fi/2014-04-05-opquiz thing. < 1550886738 764228 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RDTSC from the previous batch < 1550886772 12357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one has a 1:1 ratio of existing to nonexisting opcodes, assuming no bugs. < 1550886790 833649 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I got an acknowledgement < 1550886810 124254 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember making that suggestion but it sounds like the kind of thing I would say < 1550886825 231562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't remember you had anything to do with it either, but apparently so. < 1550886832 568809 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550886835 600221 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550886877 230172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2014-03-27.html#lAf < 1550886902 183014 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VFNMADD231SD is real o_O < 1550886904 852946 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smh < 1550886954 664640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a bunch of opcodes with variants named 132/213/231 depending on which operand means what. < 1550886963 618263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, I was wondering about that < 1550886968 360506 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPCLMULHQLQDQ is quite a mouthful as well < 1550887068 928102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x86 list is from NASM, https://www.nasm.us/doc/nasmdocb.html -- although I don't think they had such a nice list available before, I pulled it from the code. < 1550887103 622207 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550887773 994616 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB0_RESET. 0F3A. N/A. Reset the BLT Buffer 0 pointer to the base. - come again? < 1550887803 32788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Were you the person who suggested something like, there should be a kind of struct in C that can only exist as an lvalue, not an rvalue? < 1550887903 726216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :These Geode things are messy. < 1550887960 547640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? geode < 1550887961 640494 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :geode? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550887988 36639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing fizzie's quiz and this is the second Geode-only instruction that messes me up. < 1550888011 589053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1550888088 312605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct: 39/50... third attempt. I don't think I can do much better without an extraordinary amount of luck; I'm guessing about half of the time. < 1550888112 542763 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.75*50 < 1550888114 561673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 37.5 < 1550888268 852134 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's really more than half of the time... for most of the vector instructions I just try to find a plausible reading of the so-called mnemonic.) < 1550888424 392975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geode_(processor) - seems it's pretty much dead as well. < 1550888517 669570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ARM suffer from this, I wonder? Vendors adding their own instructions to accomodate custom functionality? < 1550889172 62152 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1550889231 472076 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1550889275 535562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60034&oldid=60013 5* 03A 5* (-35) 10/* Machine code interpreter */ > 1550889679 597401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60035&oldid=60034 5* 03A 5* (+239) 10/* Examples */ > 1550890045 786720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60036&oldid=60035 5* 03A 5* (+246) 10/* Examples */ > 1550890085 780032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60037&oldid=60036 5* 03A 5* (+37) 10/* Examples */ > 1550890430 225214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60038&oldid=60037 5* 03A 5* (+175) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program */ < 1550891066 471676 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting > 1550891704 639331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60039&oldid=60038 5* 03A 5* (+23) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program */ < 1550891948 947929 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550892861 131271 :aeyxa!2d3bd6aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.59.214.170 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550893313 82446 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550893577 66265 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1550895593 561374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OwoScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60040 5* 03Finianb1 5* (+5342) 10Add owoscript < 1550895837 117938 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550897418 538616 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ypwrmqfovahaxpeo JOIN :#esoteric > 1550898207 102612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoned-Go14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60041 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+2150) 10Created page with "[[Category:Languages]][[Category:2019]] [[Stoned-Go]] is a esoteric program language involving Go stones on a infinite grid, which is initially empty. In addition to the grid..." > 1550898231 112259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoned-Go14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60042&oldid=60041 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+19) 10 > 1550898325 268814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoned-Go14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60043&oldid=60042 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+255) 10 < 1550898358 251220 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the new article I added on esolang wiki good yet? < 1550898587 355518 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[list of lists that do not include themselves]] < 1550899790 578376 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550900063 593520 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550900307 141474 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550900349 286817 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfmcnslhijdnzkfm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550900375 118734 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550901631 265328 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1550902392 265014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a tape can easily be made up with [[Stoned-Go]], although making conditions and loops and stuff (other than the loop of the entire program) seem may be a bit more difficult to do (although maybe it is easy too, but I have not thought of it; I only say a tape is easily because I have already thought of it) > 1550902985 396568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OwoScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60044&oldid=60040 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+4) 10reduction to -> reduction from < 1550903220 37690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the last time i tried to correct such an error, it was i who got it wrong < 1550903253 179552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reduction out of hth < 1550903317 615011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use a confusing enough preposition no one will know what you mean so they'll just fill in the one that makes sense < 1550903609 687859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you're talking between < 1550903825 708823 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably between two walls < 1550904876 816553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely like talking notwithstanding the wall < 1550905198 769533 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ypwrmqfovahaxpeo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550906286 489840 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550906562 473668 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550907429 44240 :gurmble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1550907636 101038 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1550907636 180894 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Excess Flood < 1550907636 180958 :grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: fire's in your eyes, and this chaos, it defies imagination < 1550907667 706088 :gurmble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble < 1550907757 122560 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1550907872 264467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble grumble < 1550907872 345032 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gubelmr < 1550908274 132657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550908859 986580 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1550910224 563200 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550910224 563273 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1550911483 211862 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550913274 848448 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550913362 481577 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550914928 655597 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1550915156 373621 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1550916299 762029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kantoros1 5* 10New user account < 1550919038 623210 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1550919687 883903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60045&oldid=60024 5* 03Kantoros1 5* (+317) 10Introduced myself < 1550919898 693450 :LKoen!~LKoen@176-151-31-205.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1550923749 987698 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550923874 668225 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emctthsxfxdiwizk JOIN :#esoteric < 1550923948 746922 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1550923948 852780 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550924133 955904 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550931240 194139 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1550931649 412597 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emctthsxfxdiwizk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550931774 971475 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550931791 119948 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bimlfhscxhklmbxo JOIN :#esoteric < 1550931812 933573 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550932430 76413 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550933572 986899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550933740 195901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1550934256 802255 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550934527 728402 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1550934580 547685 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550936312 41464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble scramble < 1550936312 125084 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :srmlebac < 1550936318 683496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^srmlebac srmlebac < 1550936318 723113 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smeacblr < 1550936325 282337 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for that to be consistent. < 1550936370 946389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess it's just an alias.) < 1550936476 141072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^smeacblr scramble < 1550936678 386237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1550936678 469167 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf < 1550936688 78336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble ... < 1550936801 332563 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a79-249.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550937020 812071 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1550937441 298736 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550937604 628886 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1550937968 496319 :aloril__!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6ae3-54.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1550938178 733041 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a79-249.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550938346 669018 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1550938647 195619 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Kernel update < 1550938699 977187 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550939448 134324 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bimlfhscxhklmbxo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550940277 214516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550942050 360032 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550943202 228210 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550946099 670438 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-coplctjungcheelk JOIN :#esoteric > 1550946446 255546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoned-Go14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60046&oldid=60043 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+71) 10 < 1550947817 53540 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have added a command into Glasm for preventing the ROM size from shrinking after a specified phase; sometimes if this is not done then the addresses will not stabilize, and will result in a "too many phases" error. But, is there a better way, or is it inevitable? < 1550948659 911789 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550949847 855241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1550952097 395459 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added copy and paste commands to my font editor < 1550952120 958278 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ability to shift the bitmap in up down left and right < 1550953943 119131 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 JOIN :#esoteric > 1550954611 644828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60047&oldid=60019 5* 03Cortex 5* (+434) 10 < 1550954759 775181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that is good, then < 1550954841 174505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What font editor is that? What file format(s) can it use? Can .pcf be used? Can other formats be used? > 1550955195 273974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60048&oldid=60026 5* 03Cortex 5* (+21) 10 > 1550955549 67879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pizza Delivery14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60049&oldid=60047 5* 03Cortex 5* (+48) 10 < 1550956143 974193 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:435:a1dc:b290:d10c QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1550956695 529993 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550956734 867639 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550956738 442679 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-coplctjungcheelk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1550956838 962489 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550956840 252798 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 NICK :MDude < 1550956893 255665 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d12b:7194:ce8c:11a8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550957726 649383 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550957843 210306 :7GHAAAWSQ!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550960627 177402 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550962552 121343 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "Hello" < 1550962554 97493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hello" < 1550962568 436550 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took me way to long to realise why my sorting algorithm didn't seem to be doing anything < 1550962910 337690 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1550962938 618314 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for using proper capitalization < 1550963053 121072 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1550963688 498490 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550963720 160652 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-epkgmrettokxcpie JOIN :#esoteric < 1550963986 263398 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "olleH" < 1550963988 185861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hello" < 1550964268 393480 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 410 words in /usr/share/dict/words which are in ASCIIbetical order (after removing capitalized words) < 1550964349 877262 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering how many words are already sorted < 1550964405 659161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longest of which is 'billowy' < 1550964411 486354 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "ywollib" < 1550964413 368924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "billowy" < 1550964431 939109 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a bigger dictionary, and get "aegilops" < 1550964443 47579 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that word < 1550964469 535891 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shortest one is... 'a' < 1550964471 576711 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a kind of grass < 1550964529 678939 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think my bogobogosort implementation is broken, it's too slow < 1550964941 695534 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogobogosort? < 1550965043 409151 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/bogobogosort.html < 1550965161 967299 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arin.ga/NFZmWv is my code (in Haskell, for GHC 8.6 with vector and random libraries) < 1550965218 917629 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"run overnight, did not finish" < 1550966165 76753 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550966178 677885 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1550966335 109871 :aeyxa!4406bbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.187.222 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1550966696 219499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn aegilops < 1550966697 771943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "aegilops" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1550966697 911574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aegilops < 1550966698 62378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: goat grass [syn: {Aegilops}, {genus Aegilops}] < 1550966705 536483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wordnet puts that in uppercase. < 1550966939 559015 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550967125 927484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opportunistically combining two topics in one, the longest in-order x86 opcodes are 5 letters; there are several (addps, addss, cmovz, cmpps, cmpss, cmpsw, kmovw, knotw, loopz). < 1550967128 985252 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550967129 95166 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1550967268 452529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in fact it's the same length for all the architectures I had in the opcode quiz, unless you also count MMIX's "16addu".) < 1550967310 941401 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :opcode quiz? < 1550967327 768306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about it yesterday, http://zem.fi/2014-04-05-opquiz < 1550967348 880803 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat < 1550967427 233915 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good at this < 1550967446 97402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm generally not much better than chance. < 1550967471 821653 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worse than coin-flips < 1550967476 413956 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what this tells me < 1550967499 855820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p0593r3.html < 1550967510 370146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot more things are technically UB in C++ than I thought? < 1550967527 574682 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh yeah, basically everything < 1550967557 337967 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550967565 229972 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1550967625 521097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've thought that struct T { int a, b; }; T *p = (T *)malloc(sizeof (T)); p->a = 5; ... would be OK. < 1550967801 320551 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++, or as I like to call it, C plus UB < 1550967825 75833 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas-Hex[AFK] < 1550967879 684995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is C++'s deal < 1550969616 294436 :7GHAAAWSQ!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550970449 957905 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because you didn't check the malloc for null < 1550970467 529816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, even when malloc succeeds. < 1550970473 916366 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: supposedly malloc is allowed to return null I think < 1550970486 467231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wg21.link/p0593 < 1550970615 642821 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, so malloc-ing any complex type is UB in C++? I'm glad the g++ dev's aren't stupid enough to take advantage of that UB by removing the entire function when that is done < 1550970627 714377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't placement new it or something, apparently? < 1550970791 891948 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1550970809 812556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just give up on c++ hth < 1550970817 418648 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge amounts of technically undefined C++ code exist in my codebase < 1550970842 64104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, only its behavior is undefined < 1550970960 767937 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a lot of code relies on being able to mmap arrays of structs and then read them < 1550971383 997977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ironically that issue was raised, but apparently not addressed, in 2014... http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/cwg_defects.html#1116 ("Additional note, February, 2014") < 1550971418 739838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... that page is huge. < 1550971489 829153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so: scrap c++ and go back to c? < 1550971497 785246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a different language < 1550971500 397537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please advise < 1550971536 728498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try some avr assembly < 1550971559 406969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION could dust off his arduino... hmm... nah. < 1550971622 632114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just give up the illusion of ever writing portable C++ code. < 1550971638 952375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a language where the compiler+standard don't fight me < 1550971640 872026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh < 1550971834 853213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550971990 524704 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550972288 522979 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550973108 742572 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550973135 6067 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550973150 534999 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550973236 669301 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1550973325 548527 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550973396 735899 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1550973423 210805 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550973677 157683 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1550974250 17455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1550974521 117632 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1550974833 334778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try other assembly language too < 1550974845 818964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd like to write moderately portable programs, though. < 1550974854 241107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I know you don't really need anything except MMIX. < 1550974897 323326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, then you can use C, or you can write a program for a portable VM (Z-machine, Glulx, NES/Famicom emulators, etc) < 1550974942 498408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1550974953 3787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just write all my programs for NES/Famicom < 1550974961 601083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1550974968 184199 :Remavas-Hex[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1550974989 903381 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depend on the program. It is especially good for many kind of game programs, at least. < 1550975037 248519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the kind of game programs that do 3D rendering at 1920x1080 at 60fps? < 1550975144 993125 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550975149 339290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the resolution is too much for NES/Famicom. (Although also many game is having 3D rendering even without 3D game play geometry, which seems an unnecessary use of 3D rendering to me, in most cases) < 1550975177 249039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. 2D games are usually better. < 1550975195 156033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a game that has two space dimensions and one time dimension, visualized as a third space dimension. < 1550975198 51061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1550975269 763197 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to make up some kind of game that does that if you want to do, and then see if it is good or isn't. < 1550975300 569144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1550975513 411065 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Let's make CDB == "C with Defined Behaviour". just enumerate all types of undefined behaviour in C, and define it < 1550975540 49676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd love to say that no sane compiler would ever optimize code based on that kind of undefined behavior... but I would have said the same thing about the x + y < x test for overflows (where y is known to be nonnegative) :-( < 1550975541 61491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't someone do that < 1550975574 233857 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: gcc, quite infamously < 1550975585 857438 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e which is why both my company and the linux kernel use -fwrapv option < 1550975588 553104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the compiler writers didn't back down. < 1550975591 839919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um my response was to orin < 1550975599 812250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah sorry. < 1550975607 983747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think undefined signed overflow can be justified in some cases? < 1550975614 994764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not a great default, though. < 1550975617 836862 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for once I believe this was not inferrable from context :) < 1550975640 909109 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I mean the original justification was that some old computers used ones complement < 1550975677 294824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other justifications. < 1550975680 170126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it could be inferrable from the fact i don't type that fast hth htht < 1550975684 241513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopes < 1550975684 539750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I imagine it was meant to allow signaling overflows... < 1550975697 425971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like doing 64-bit arithmetic on a 32-bit integer or something? < 1550975700 865241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, look, C is a mess. < 1550975704 75300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gotta scrap it. < 1550975707 56121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can I use instead of C? < 1550975714 141042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe LLVM < 1550975724 554463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MAYBE < 1550975725 732676 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fortran 2003? < 1550975740 571706 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's object oriented < 1550975768 824890 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gcc supports it < 1550975818 606543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Java? < 1550975819 28376 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also Ada I guess? < 1550975844 814545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: object oriented automatically rules it out hth < 1550975849 576672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs . o O ( Over The Hills And Far Away ) < 1550975851 487015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM doesn't have macros though; one use of macros is to help writing portable programs, since otherwise the program might not be portable < 1550975885 836326 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well fortran objects are optional < 1550975888 439997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom abject < 1550975889 605494 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1550975895 720489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote abject < 1550975896 453235 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1550975898 661485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1550975908 351278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "abject lesson" < 1550975909 442506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://owlcation.com/humanities/abject-lesson-vs-object-lesson < 1550975954 286067 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that was much better than I hoped for. < 1550975980 625014 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think fortran is probably the smoothest drop-in replacement for C < 1550975990 967869 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? eggcorn < 1550975991 921150 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eggcorn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1550976024 461148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an unusually helpful cookie acceptance menu < 1550976101 509124 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but fortran has UB too, just not as much < 1550976109 936427 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... didn't enable Javascript. No menu. > 1550976183 710990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60050&oldid=60039 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10 < 1550976206 738877 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is rust, which prevents alot of runtime errors by creating lots of compile time errors < 1550976223 271037 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've tried to create a Truth-machine for Stoned Go (nice concept!): (+1[]?)+2[|+1()]-1()-2[]+2[]+2()-1+1()+0-4[]+0+2 then append [] black for input 0 , () white for input 1. Output to be read from the column below the last stone placed. I'm abusing / misunderstanding the loop | section, but I'm not sure how else to conditionally loop, unless I set up a naturally looping capture configuration, but then I believe there are Go < 1550976277 946238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: It is meant there is no conditional loop; only the entire program can be looped (although the initialization part only runs the first time) < 1550976407 987306 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was "innovating" and was hoping each code block inside brackets could have an init and loop portion [|] < 1550976426 542854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are other esolangs too, where the entire program runs in a loop; it is same here) < 1550976512 307838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks ants < 1550976513 93121 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, ants. Thants. < 1550976565 187608 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to get the same effect another way, but wanted to suggest it in case you thought it was a good idea (code blocks being full programs too) < 1550976592 238050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: i think your long message got cut off < 1550976601 83769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: That could be a variant, I suppose < 1550976622 251777 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550976665 600701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only knows how to fix that in irssi < 1550976683 833544 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, yes, thanks! "I believe there are Go rules to prevent that." < 1550976737 958638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules prohibiting repeated positions do not apply here. < 1550976742 324709 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps I should mention) < 1550976750 41242 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A stone may not be played so as to recreate a previous board position with the same player to play again". Not that stoned go has multiple players < 1550976792 177890 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably good to mention, I felt bound by it even though it was not mentioned as a restriction < 1550976880 236585 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1550977014 941776 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to enjoy writing Truth-machines for IO limited esolangs. > 1550977033 790505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stoned-Go14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60051&oldid=60046 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+681) 10 < 1550977169 432640 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zz038: thanks! Also for the / command. When I wrote my above code it didn't exist and I was using +0 for the same effect < 1550977372 673096 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried a while ago to write a truth-machine in Thue-Mirr but got frustrated making bigger and bigger layouts that didn't do what I wanted, then losing track of the positions. < 1550977440 238642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is even possible with Thue-Mirr; it seems to be chaotic to me < 1550977448 37615 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need an interpreter to make more progress, paper and pencil didn't get me anywhere < 1550977498 125270 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I thought just trying semi-random input and see what happens would be a good way to get a feel for what is possible > 1550978340 153175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60052&oldid=60050 5* 03A 5* (+372) 10 > 1550978405 869052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60053&oldid=60052 5* 03A 5* (+17) 10 > 1550978490 557121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60054&oldid=60053 5* 03A 5* (-17) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1550978512 710237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60055&oldid=60054 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10 > 1550978751 956472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60056&oldid=60055 5* 03A 5* (-89) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550978767 304783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60057&oldid=60056 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10 > 1550978781 66196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60058&oldid=60057 5* 03A 5* (-30) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ < 1550979300 859650 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-epkgmrettokxcpie QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1550979302 173614 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60059&oldid=60058 5* 03A 5* (+261) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550979694 957927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60060&oldid=60059 5* 03A 5* (+144) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550979898 995404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60061&oldid=60060 5* 03A 5* (+49) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550979964 962737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60062&oldid=60061 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550980428 123383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60063&oldid=60062 5* 03A 5* (+274) 10 > 1550980844 967156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60064&oldid=60063 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550981054 720962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60065&oldid=60064 5* 03A 5* (+85) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550981216 295377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60066&oldid=60065 5* 03A 5* (+76) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550981240 19272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60067&oldid=60066 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* 99 bottles of beer program (currently incomplete) */ > 1550981330 336654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lenguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60068&oldid=40885 5* 03Cortex 5* (+91) 10 < 1550982053 550066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!`le/rn philosophical zombie//Philosophical zombies are everyone in this channel except me. < 1550982053 632958 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn philosophical zombie//Philosophical zombies are everyone in this channel except me. < 1550982056 58925 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'philosophical zombie': Philosophical zombies are everyone in this channel except me. < 1550982134 166226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hoag | grep '^' < 1550982136 632321 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : le/rn philosophical zombie//Philosophical zombies are everyone in this channel except me. \ list `list < 1550982160 426151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hoag | grep '^' < 1550982162 801803 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : list \ run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop < 1550982228 765911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1 hoag | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn < 1550982231 511043 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/10: 3359 oerjän \ 1362 shachäf \ 609 ellioẗt \ 426 b_jonäs \ 396 boil̈y \ 357 hppavilion[1̈] \ 335 int-̈e \ 314 fizzïe \ 226 Jafët \ 222 tsweẗt \ 203 ais52̈3 \ 177 GreyKnigḧt \ 175 wob_jonäs \ 165 km̈c \ 162 rdocöc \ 148 Tanëb \ 144 zgrëp \ 138 Rouj̈o \ 113 mromän \ 107 moon̈_ \ 102 mroman̈_ \ 98 Phantom_Hoovër \ 97 Bik̈e \ < 1550982235 79640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :10?! < 1550982237 959322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1550982238 696034 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/10: 92 nortẗi \ 90 noood̈l \ 88 izaber̈a \ 85 FireFl̈y \ 74 coppr̈o \ 71 olsnër \ 68 Sgëo \ 64 mrhmous̈e \ 54 hagb4r̈d \ 52 monq̈y \ 52 Gregör \ 50 c00kiemon5tër \ 49 itidus2̈1 \ 48 Zarutiän \ 48 ThatOtherPersön \ 45 \oren̈\ \ 44 moon_̈_ \ 43 Moon̈_ \ 40 zzo3̈8 \ 38 guestböt \ 37 ran̈c \ 37 iön \ 36 FreeFul̈l \ < 1550982250 955304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1550982252 179264 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/10: 33 Elronn̈d \ 32 quintopïa \ 31 xfïx \ 30 moonythedwar̈f \ 30 hppavilion̈1 \ 27 mnoq̈y \ 27 Hjull̈e \ 23 __kerbal__̈_ \ 22 orën \ 22 Moon_̈_ \ 22 blottër \ 22 alercäh \ 18 Sgeö_ \ 18 pikḧq \ 17 ZombieChenëy \ 16 Dongër \ 15 Kaynaẗo \ 15 gameman̈j \ 14 oren̈_ \ 13 moon̈y \ 12 zui438̈s \ 12 prooftechniqüe \ 12 < 1550982494 63737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n 10 < 1550982494 693472 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10/10: 1 a`a`a`a`jo8äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo7äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo6äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo5äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo4äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo2äs \ 1 a`a`a`a`jo1äs \ 1 a`a`a`̈a \ 1 < 1550982502 49970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1550982519 720499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n 7 < 1550982520 450728 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7/10:ybdën \ 2 tswetẗ_ \ 2 Taneb|Hovercraf̈t \ 2 spiriẗy \ 2 sleff̈y \ 2 singingbanan̈a \ 2 salpyn̈x \ 2 oklopöl \ 2 noog̈a \ 2 mushroöm \ 2 Moon__̈- \ 2 monoton̈e \ 2 lezsakdom̈i \ 2 lexand̈e \ 2 lambdaböt \ 2 hppavilion1̈_ \ 2 greyooz̈e \ 2 fungöt \ 2 fcraẅl \ 2 carad̈o \ 2 a`a`a`a`jo3äs \ 1 Warrigal� < 1550982533 918371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, what happened to the encoding there? < 1550982539 872000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n 7 | xxd < 1550982540 299055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1550982540 569642 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 | xxd/10:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 3: unknown command: `|' < 1550982543 959131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` n 7 | xxd < 1550982544 633139 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: xxd: command not found < 1550982565 88153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the obvious thing happened < 1550982595 935701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got cut off mid-code-unit and so my IRC client interpreted that as ISO-8859-1 or whatever encoding it uses when a thing isn't valid UTF-8 < 1550982618 924944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks irc < 1550982619 957078 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, irc. Thirc. < 1550982643 448169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1550982660 595849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mine too) < 1550982679 905342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the de facto standard for how IRC encoding works. < 1550982686 598686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` n 7 | hexdump < 1550982687 472131 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 2f37 3031 793a 6462 cc65 6e88 5c20 2020 \ 0000010 2020 2020 3220 7420 7773 7465 cc74 5f88 \ 0000020 5c20 2020 2020 2020 3220 5420 6e61 6265 \ 0000030 487c 766f 7265 7263 6661 88cc 2074 205c \ 0000040 2020 2020 2020 2032 7073 7269 7469 88cc \ 0000050 2079 205c 2020 2020 2020 2032 6c73 6665 \ 0000060 cc66 7988 5c20 2020 2020 2020 3220 7320 \ 0000070 6e69 6967 676e 6162 616e cc6e 6188 5c20 \ 0000080 2020 2020 2020 3220 7320 6c61 7970 cc6e \ 0000090 78 < 1550982689 83571 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1550982797 33498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...endianness, tdnh < 1550982809 955626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I'm emperor I'm going to ban big endian. < 1550982815 628829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall handling this is a feature request i've previously refused < 1550982836 482787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you refusing feature requests on shaventions now < 1550982838 478994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh < 1550982851 253126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you rewrote the thing that breaks lines up or something? I don't remember. < 1550982852 623051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1550982857 659094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1550982891 76181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on my list of things to ban: Long stack traces. < 1550982893 142609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made it break more accurately, but it doesn't care about utf-8 sequences < 1550982902 636053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll take care of both Java and recursion. < 1550982911 883059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a plan < 1550982933 340635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can we send commits directly to HackEso instead of doing through IRC? < 1550982941 468724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just rewrite everything in C. It'll be great. < 1550982948 908440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1550983116 383614 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550983392 379147 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1550984270 107367 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1550985403 134517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60069 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+7346) 10Added new Esolang that I created recently. > 1550985857 120551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60070&oldid=60048 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+32) 10/* P */ added Pyhton [sic] to the list. < 1550986254 243426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think small endian is generally better, but do not intend that big endian will be banned < 1550986407 504731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Knuth seems to prefer big endian, as far as I can tell) < 1550986589 816561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1550986662 977017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean why Knuth prefer big endian? < 1550986724 89958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1550986747 844497 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1550986974 51451 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx is also big endian, and Z-machine is big endian (although version 3 Z-code can be big endian or small endian, but small endian was never used), and OASYS does not define endianness (OAI requires the endianness and int size to match the computer it is running on, although my own implementation of OASYS doesn't care), and TAVERN has no run-time endianness but the story file is small-endian except lump sizes are PDP-endian. < 1550987144 52461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Hero Mesh also has no runtime endianness, but binary files in a puzzle set use small endian (except lump sizes in a Hamster archive, which are PDP-endian) < 1550987169 951804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth's MIX seems to have no endianness, although MMIX uses big endian. < 1550988741 281339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes if aplay is interrupted when the audio is almost finished playing, I get a error message that says: Assertion 'pthread_mutex_destroy(&m->mutex) == 0' failed at pulsecore/mutex-posix.c:81, function pa_mutex_free(). Aborting. < 1550989144 412970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a feature hth < 1550989590 516070 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550989865 548040 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1550991928 958286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1550993632 67835 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifcrlcnuxoqmkaxr JOIN :#esoteric < 1550993922 67589 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1550995390 345118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I read 7.1.3 as not expecting a clear preference either way between little-endian and big-endian. < 1550997899 590540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, an opcode quiz. let me try that. thanks, fizzie. < 1550998008 144571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aeyxa, kmc: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02-18.html#ldi for list of words whose letters are sorted alphabetically < 1550998192 899638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that's hard < 1551000473 953278 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551001226 762452 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifcrlcnuxoqmkaxr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551001946 343578 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1551004307 941134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551004308 20976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1551004308 21046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551005216 321420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? this page < 1551005217 451932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This page is under construction. < 1551005380 265231 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a mastodon account that posts random screenshots of ZZT games, quite fun to see all sorts of random ones < 1551005397 313131 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://botsin.space/@worldsofzzt < 1551005488 424245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? manometer < 1551005489 472401 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A manometer is a device for testing real men by putting them under pressure. < 1551005652 900915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn o is a popular comedy fantasy webcomic. It's about a group called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence, and eventually stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order. < 1551005655 372816 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'o': o is a popular comedy fantasy webcomic. It's about a group called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence, and eventually stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order. < 1551008614 78518 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551008650 965191 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551010020 722585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? h4gb4rd < 1551010022 465310 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. < 1551010022 614700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hagb4rd < 1551010024 656497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. < 1551010026 669620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551010062 268304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just how many dups are there? < 1551010076 445688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` sha256sum wisdom/* | sort | uniq -D < 1551010077 484398 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha256sum: wisdom/8: Is a directory \ sha256sum: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ sha256sum: 'wisdom/'$'\302\257''\('$'\302\260''_o)': Is a directory \ sha256sum: 'wisdom/'$'\302\257''\('$'\302\260\342\200\213''_o)': Is a directory \ sha256sum: 'wisdom/'$'\302\257''\_('$'\343\203\204'')_': Is a directory < 1551010082 441448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gtf < 1551010169 655866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ls -ld wisdom/h?gb?rd < 1551010170 538065 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 7 Jul 8 2017 wisdom/h4gb4rd -> hagb4rd \ -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 51 Jul 8 2017 wisdom/hagb4rd < 1551010173 705379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a symlink! < 1551010294 411370 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551010382 679487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd wisdom; find -type l -printf "%p -> %l\n" < 1551010383 572961 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :./СССР -> ссср \ ./the usual suspect -> usual suspect \ ./perpetuum mobile -> perpetual motion machine \ ./r.i.p. -> rip \ ./☆ -> * \ ./h4gb4rd -> hagb4rd \ ./issue -> .doorstop \ ./the reals -> real \ ./off by two error -> off by two \ ./wolfram -> stephen wolfram < 1551010385 541029 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551010415 793310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? doorstop < 1551010416 956504 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :doorstop? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551010418 733357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? issue < 1551010419 818018 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. < 1551010424 392091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? .doorstop < 1551010425 464444 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. < 1551010434 421179 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551012009 801399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not sure if that's in the spirit of the thing. < 1551012304 655216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it "resemblance" or "resemblence"? wisdom/ance is truncated too short, it's not in there < 1551012344 872500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :resistance, resilience, < 1551012369 693339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :repungance, resemblance. there it is < 1551012974 354385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bent-bill knot-hatch < 1551012975 348546 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bent-bill knot-hatch? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551014114 310935 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? associate degree < 1551014115 384074 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :associate degree? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551014118 731406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ass. phd < 1551014119 931996 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass. phd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551014120 813138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551014337 511378 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551018548 210658 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551019211 431365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551019385 895085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? canaima < 1551019387 160072 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here. < 1551020029 68527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551021451 769254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: It is look like they are not making invisible walls to be invisible. < 1551026999 456761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, how have I missed out on hg histedit for all this time? It's basically the same as git rebase --interactive... and I've been missing that a lot. < 1551028034 812595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551028217 778309 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551029264 733073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you figure out a way to make it in the spirit? < 1551029554 586801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, maybe I could make a built-in command like `fetch, except `patch (to pull in a diff to apply from a URL) or `pull (to pull a commit from a hg repo). I'd like it to have the usual safeguards, like the .hgignore handling and stuff. < 1551029806 411672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just download the patch to tmp with a fetch, then apply it with a command. that's two lines, but that's not too big of a problem, right? < 1551029834 519263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses of fetch usually work like that < 1551029840 928257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't do much with just fetch < 1551030076 855018 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umehqyighwkhjnps JOIN :#esoteric < 1551030110 998943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the uses of `fetch I've seen have basically just updated a single "binary" or a data file. < 1551030139 774021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's true that you should be able to apply a patch via fetching to tmp. < 1551030155 124722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there was a directory you could edit in real-time < 1551030180 118457 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551030211 451893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I fetched a targz at least once < 1551030216 187176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think we have a working xz < 1551030231 495858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` xz --help < 1551030232 352297 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: xz [OPTION]... [FILE]... \ Compress or decompress FILEs in the .xz format. \ \ -z, --compress force compression \ -d, --decompress force decompression \ -t, --test test compressed file integrity \ -l, --list list information about .xz files \ -k, --keep keep (don't delete) input files \ -f, --force force overwrite of output file and (de)compress links \ -c, --stdout write to standard o < 1551030239 13504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could download a tarxz too < 1551030275 143252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I also fetched single files, like M:tG comp rules texts or yawgatog oracle dumps, for clarity of the commands < 1551030298 107838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you do have to provide your own URL though. It's not as convenient as just pushing a commit. < 1551030347 144258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you don't have to use fetch. you can also break up the patch in irc-line long chunks and tunnel it to hackeso < 1551030353 736877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not very convenient, and freenode might ban you < 1551030380 401661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also a web interface that let you http upload text I think < 1551030383 352798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use that < 1551030409 156110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there also a mail interface where you send commands and you receive the response? < 1551030413 327906 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other way to do would be listen to one port on the server that you can write a filename and then upload all of the data and then close the connection, and then on the IRC you can move the file from the temporary "incoming" directory to where you want it and give it the filename you want. < 1551030641 134543 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://twitter.com/x86instructions/status/1099115314766401536 "JTNJ - Jump To Next JTNJ" ← that's basically an ASM version of literate programming, isn't it? having a "toggle comment" marker is pretty much the hallmark of a literate programming language, and that's pretty much what JTNJ does in practice < 1551030702 10040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think that if the instruction is encoded then, you might not know what is another instruction or just some other data, unless it is defined as a macro. < 1551030807 324863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be even marginally useful, the instruction should jump to the instruction *following* the next JTNJ. < 1551030880 757835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't think it's the hallmark of a literate programming language. C has a toggle comment, /*/ , and I don't think that makes it literate programming. < 1551030890 410641 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Were you the person who suggested something like, there should be a kind of struct in C that can only exist as an lvalue, not an rvalue? ← I don't remember saying that, but it's the sort of thing I'm interested in so maybe I did < 1551030913 729061 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, that might be an interesting style for writing a C program in < 1551030928 129798 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, a language being literate isn't a property of the language, but of how it's used < 1551030932 121190 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "fault on first non-X-mapped page beyone RIP" ) < 1551030940 573878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*beyond < 1551030963 959780 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does RIP here mean "64-bit instruction pointer" or "rest in peace"? < 1551030973 256510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1551030985 980148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former was the intended meaning) < 1551031116 796765 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is the new article I added on esolang wiki good yet? ← you've defined the two possible current directions as "vertical" and "horizontal", then you have commands for moving in the current direction or the opposite of the current direction, but it matters whether the current direction is left or right, or up or down, due to the tiebreak for when a large group is captured < 1551031173 18657 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the syntax for the inner loop variant is just weird, as | affects the whole block that contains it but the location of the | within the block doesn't seem to matter < 1551031235 134976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sober space < 1551031236 256615 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them. < 1551031238 693690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? stoned space < 1551031239 874431 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stoned space? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551031241 865299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? stone space < 1551031242 721963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Ah, yes, but, negative numbers are the top left (perhaps should mention) for if multiple trigger programs are executed. Also, the | in the inner loop variant is supposed to still have the initialization part and loop part, although maybe it is not clear < 1551031242 852391 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax. < 1551031272 727842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Or maybe just some some structs shouldn't be assignable by value or something. < 1551031299 941954 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I was definitely suggesting something that played around in that space < 1551031302 567114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I think I thought it was kind of silly but now I'm more sympathetic to it. < 1551031361 954567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: rust has structs that aren't assignable by value these days, non-Sized ones < 1551031426 264424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also notionally have them in C, where you technically can copy the struct, but it's not really meaningful, because it's not the full struct, just a struct describing the header, and you can only meaningfully manipulate it through passing a pointer to it to library functions < 1551031430 280395 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I wanted a very clear difference between things which act like value types but are immutable, things that are mutable but persist and can't easily be copied or deallocated, and temporaries which are mutable but can't be used as anything but local variables and fields of other temporaries < 1551031435 225149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE is like that already < 1551031470 582224 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: non-Sized things aren't copiable by value only because Rust doesn't have enough information to generate the code that copies them, though, I think < 1551031478 937253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said this the other day: "People talk about const a lot, but the const/non-const distinction seems less important to me than the distinction between values and memory locations (in C terms, rvalues and lvalues). Most languages really muddle this distinction (although even C does make it)." < 1551031485 691977 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a philosophical objection to the by-value copy, that's what !Clone is for < 1551031526 861553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's not really "only". you use structs that are neither sized nor unsized if you don't want rust to move them. < 1551031532 15288 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I see this the opposite way round (which may be the contrapositive of your point of view?): if something is immutable, the distinction between value and memory location doesn't actually /matter/, and that's one of the big gains of immutability < 1551031543 81078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be because they're ones that have a pointer to themselves, or for other reasons < 1551031549 778910 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if something is mutable, it has an identity, and keeping track of that is very important < 1551031563 715778 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: isn't that what Pin is for? < 1551031582 101112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Pin can help too... hmm < 1551031605 31953 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I don't quite understand how Pin works < 1551031621 901166 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1551031633 791949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote Ooooh! < 1551031634 227760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjs says: I have to explain this shit to people. I mean, I start out right, "Hey, you know how you always have these bugs because what you thought was in the variable is not there?" And I get all of < 1551031634 366564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :these nods of agreement. "Well, I've found a new language that solves that problem." Audience: "Ooooh! How?" Me: "There's no variables!" And then they all start moving away from me slowly.... < 1551031661 551589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no lvalues! bliss!) < 1551031669 836437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :un... < 1551031691 262364 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "variable" there being used in the sense of "assignable variable" / "lvalue", or in the more general sense that also includes things like lambda bindings? < 1551031724 719478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the assignable thing. < 1551031733 259923 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1551031743 120357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe intermediate, so that global constants are still allowed? < 1551031743 580111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah mutable is the word. < 1551031750 495757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Well, "const T *x" in C doesn't even say that *x is immutable < 1551031763 361706 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: their are defined, not assigned < 1551031767 80853 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... they < 1551031788 565706 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work in a CS department, "variable" has the second meaning by default here, so "assignable variable" is the phrase we came up with to unambiguously describe the sort of variable that most programmers mean < 1551031798 257421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I'd still quite like a language that doesn't have lvalues at all, only pointers. < 1551031832 588817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's assign-once variables < 1551031834 168209 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other hazards of terminology include "while" being considered to be tail-recursion) < 1551031835 52141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really pretty odd that even pseudocode algorithms confuse a value with a memory location. < 1551031856 557652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the implicit operation of "the value stored in this location at this time" and people don't even notice it < 1551031876 156009 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: In the pure Haskell setting that's not part of the semantics; it's an implementation detail of lazy evaluation. < 1551031881 111074 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was very impressed by Algol 68, which gets the terminology right for the distinction (and then, unfortunately, went and invented a shorthand that caught on and caused all the terminological problems) < 1551031894 386715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'm more thinking of the prolog version of assign-once variables < 1551031909 921860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I was also impressed by some parts of Algol 68 < 1551031913 635584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the shorthand? < 1551031919 93927 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C code "int x; x = 6;" translates to Algol 68 "ref int x = loc x; x := 6;" < 1551031929 481838 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shorthand for that would be "int x := that < 1551031939 810131 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**"ref int x = loc int; x := 6;" < 1551031949 856343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. Right. < 1551031953 809998 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was shorthand like "ref int x := 6" < 1551031958 252570 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1551031962 998379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a shorthand is OK? < 1551031979 938517 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the Algol 68 is still wrong, I added a trailing semicolon by mistake (semicolon in algol is a separator, not a terminator) < 1551032001 424031 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shorthand's useful, at least < 1551032026 1502 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I really liked the concept of "variables are never named, only constants have names" < 1551032053 849275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was going to have a thing like "x := var(6)" < 1551032060 522438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in Forte, constants are never named, because the constants are variable too < 1551032069 971723 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for people reading this who don't already know, "ref int x = loc int" creates a new constant x which is the name of a stack slot, you can mutate the value within the stack slot) < 1551032088 708041 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, Forte is a joke, but it's a thought-provoking joke < 1551032090 682778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where var is an alloca-style thing that allocates memory for the rest of the block and also assigns a value to that memory. < 1551032106 73300 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 QUIT :Quit: brb < 1551032113 843750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: right. it's thought provoking because the variable line numbers behave like a computed come from < 1551032175 397083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: The thing I don't like is all the automatic coercions they needed to add to make code readable. It seems to make things very ambiguous. < 1551032267 641209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does often lead to interesting design is that if you have a resource that can be named, then you should also allow to allocate instances of it that aren't named but only referenced indirectly < 1551032824 181747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it can also lead to insane overuse and bad coding < 1551032850 118353 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551032864 68674 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1551032892 868776 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I also think the coercions were a mistake < 1551032957 242404 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my thesis I worked with Idealized Algol, which has no implicit coercions (it allows ! as an explicit ref x → x coercion, and is call by name so no explicit proc x → x coercion is needed) < 1551032979 921693 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, forcing a thunk in Idealized Algol is really difficult < 1551033003 297947 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can force an integer by assigning it to a variable, and force a boolean using an if or while statement, and that's about it; most other types can't be forced at all < 1551033067 779990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is that like haskell without seq, where you can force an algebraic data using case, or force an integer using <, or force a function by calling it? < 1551033124 290329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But code without the coercions seems to have way too much dereferencing. < 1551033130 508122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point of being hard to read. < 1551033201 507455 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the opcode quiz gave me "FS" and I wasn't sure what to say because I was unclear about the definition of an opcode; "FS:" is a segment override prefix, but a) does the colon matter, b) do prefixes count as opcodes? it could do with some clarification < 1551033211 129925 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes < 1551033234 987476 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in Idealized Algol, incrementing an integer-holding variable x is "x := !x + 1" < 1551033244 705972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's simple enough. < 1551033247 674823 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a bit of getting used to but it's not too bad to write in (and OCaml does it the same way) < 1551033258 899801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLISS does this too < 1551033268 229746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is that where SML got the names for the operators for mutable cell? < 1551033274 804251 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in the subset I implemented for my thesis, the only dereferencable things were integer-holding variables < 1551033279 24328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But slightly more complicated code has a lot more dereferencing. < 1551033286 50796 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I have no idea who borrowed from who < 1551033297 262627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it strange that ! is a reader in SML but a writer in forth < 1551033305 69318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say the array indexing operator, which presumably returns a pointer rather than a value (so it's morel ike + in C), right? < 1551033314 481841 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we're implementing this in hardware, thus any assignable referenceable thing is a set of bits in memory somewhere, thus is an integer by definition) < 1551033358 671007 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the newarray statement in Idealized Algol produces a function from integers to variables < 1551033367 877212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, just because it's in hardware doesn't really make it an integer. except perhaps as much as it only has finitely many values. < 1551033396 472043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the design of a language for programming computers, though. < 1551033401 908204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a sequence of bits which can be interpreted as and manipulated as a integer. < 1551033407 136207 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so writing an array element would be, e.g., a(6) := 7, reading an array element would be, e.g., !(a(6)), which can be written !a(6) due to careful choice of operator precedence < 1551033426 915980 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the choice is harmless because (!a)(6) would necessarily be a type error, given that in the subset we were using, ! always returns an integer) < 1551033460 291724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, and can you write multi-axis arrays? < 1551033491 220309 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there isn't a builtin for them, but you can create them using a curried wrapper function that linearizes the index < 1551033500 789195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551033511 349566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr[!i, !j] = min(!arr[!i, !j-1], !arr[!i-1, !j], !arr[!i-1, !j-1]) + 1 < 1551033531 580373 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like worrying about where to dereference is a big part of the work of writing that line < 1551033542 901520 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like let a = newarray a0(25) in \x.\y.a0(x+y*5) would work < 1551033585 566262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551033590 328503 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's fairly easy, every use of a variable name is dereferenced with either ! or := < 1551033601 302779 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first use of arr is dereferenced with :=, thus you need ! everywhere else < 1551033627 443142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's conceptually difficult, only distracting < 1551033647 333185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switching between a.x and a->x in C is already annoying. < 1551033686 736566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: come to the rust side. we have implicit dereferencing, and lots of other false exaggerations about how perfect the language is. < 1551033716 612706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust just has lvalues and rvalues, like C < 1551033731 72700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, it's a little unclear. The opcode list is from NASM, which allows "FS" as a standalone instruction, and as a rep-style prefix, in addition to the typical fs:... operand form: http://ix.io/1BWX < 1551033746 833731 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, is this still about not wanting lvalues? come to rust or scheme then. < 1551033749 855342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1551033753 440660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rust or/ruby or/ < 1551033755 512540 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it considered IIRC it considered FS to be fake < 1551033777 809354 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a surprisingly philosophical question for what you'd expect to be an objective quiz < 1551033779 493351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: This is about wanting a language to replace C. < 1551033802 225057 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fwiw, my thoughts on lvalues and rvalues were more about wanting a language to replace Java than to replace C < 1551033836 584254 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-like languages have a number of considerations of their own, e.g. abstracting away low-level details is not always desirable < 1551033862 847726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ALGOL 68 is garbage-collected. < 1551033876 543775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think that has much to do with any of these features. < 1551033972 805969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Right, the exact definition for "opcode" I've used there is really a NASM implementation detail, it's everything in the nasm_insn_names[] array. Apparently prefixes (even if they can be used as a standalone statement) are handled separately. < 1551033974 947227 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Algol 68 is GCed because people weren't sure there were alternative schemes to stack allocation and a GCed heap at the time < 1551033987 625363 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting would have been considered a form of GC, but a broken one < 1551034024 72158 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this reminds me of the problem I'm stuck on at work < 1551034040 523613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alternative scheme of manual memory management was presumably known? < 1551034114 846817 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to prove a GC algorithm correct; however, the way it deals with reference cycles is by delegating cases with suspected reference cyclesto a second GC algorithm, which means I need to somehow prove "this GC algorithm is correct given an oracle for breaking cycles" < 1551034145 308611 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not sure, manual deallocation feels like a more modern feature than GC/automatic deallocation < 1551034164 979530 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because memory leaks have become more survivable over time < 1551034185 842738 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rust does not consider memory leaks a correctness issue, for example) < 1551034199 208305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was GCed because they wanted to compile it to a web scripting language that would be ran on client side in browsers, and they didn't want webpages to leak memory in the browser < 1551034205 429222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, did you say 68 < 1551034231 618867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't want telex messages to leak memory in the receiving post office < 1551034242 506440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: What, you're saying garbage collection predated malloc/free? < 1551034268 486717 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me, at least in languages higher-level than assembly < 1551034281 336050 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is GC'ed, and a very old language < 1551034284 237366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it does feel more modern, yes, because lisp was traditionally garbage collected < 1551034288 301566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1551034293 707915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't smalltalk too? < 1551034294 236310 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other languages of a comparable age were typically statically allocated < 1551034301 399764 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, Smalltalk is GC'ed < 1551034343 763501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas some other languages just don't allow pointers, so everything is singly owned < 1551034369 931156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cons cells -- which I assumed were reference-counted in the original LISP for some reason, though I never checked -- are a much more specific thing than general GC < 1551034398 759474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or every variable is allocated once in the program and never freed, like in BASIC or FORTRAN < 1551034417 564158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure, the memory allocation and deallocation gets much simpler if every block is of the same size < 1551034421 888020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gc sweep itself not much < 1551034429 367698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the memory management does get much simpler < 1551034436 104597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easier to implement on small machines < 1551034507 137737 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the paper which is the first description of garbage collection (1959); it also talks about stack allocation as though it were a new/interesting innovation for the paper (maybe it was) < 1551034544 193777 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it used mark-and-sweep < 1551034556 610207 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stop-the-world mark-and-sweep, that is) < 1551034581 6121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if I understand correctly, it was sort of a new thing to store local variables on a stack to implement lexical scoped variables (without closures), which makes sense because you don't need that if you don't have recursive structs < 1551034586 452750 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does sort-of imply that malloc/free came earlier, or at least was considered to be obvious to people reading the paper < 1551034599 855758 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it was to implement recursive functions < 1551034600 831290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only have non-recursive structs, then you can give every local variable a static address < 1551034625 729421 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stack allocation is often more efficient than static allocation even in the absence of recursion < 1551034640 210677 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it lets more variables share with each other and thus uses less memory < 1551034661 122761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: exactly. I mean, look at the Knuth books, they don't take recursive functions granted, recursive functions are introduced in the future (not yet released) parts of vol 4, even though the normal MMIX calling convention puts locals on a stack < 1551034667 951417 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most programs that don't use recursion, there's no execution which would end up with every function running at the same time in one big long call chain < 1551034683 174531 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the program is very simple < 1551034697 361555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does technically mention recursive functions earlier, but doesn't go (sorry) deep into them < 1551034707 120071 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm starting to have an esolang idea < 1551034718 567333 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about a language where all the functions being in one big call chain is an essential part of the design < 1551034725 759731 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you do flow control by rearranging the call chain < 1551034746 253426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not really. if your call graph is known statically and acyclic (which is the most common case when you know there'll be no recursion) then you can maximally overlap variables so it's as efficient as a stack < 1551034757 590568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overlap them with a static address that is < 1551034759 822486 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551034768 711642 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I'm not sure < 1551034773 229023 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the set of overlaps always solvable? < 1551034788 135177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, just go either from inside to out, or from outside to in, in the graph < 1551034791 420594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in any partial order really < 1551034799 963886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assign variables to the lowest addres slot that wasn't used yet < 1551034810 503490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacks ware awful, they make it impossible to put the value of a variable into the immediate operand of an instruction ;-) < 1551034828 827364 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have three functions, a, b, c, a(false) calls b(true), b(false) calls c(true), c(false) calls a(true) < 1551034836 567205 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no < 1551034851 788581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I said the call graph, as in, the graph of possible calls, is known at compile time, and is acyclic < 1551034858 988917 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, each function can only call functions defined earlier in the code < 1551034871 552363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do have three functions like that, then yes, you can't allocate the variables statically < 1551034876 4528 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a(false) calls b(true), a(false) calls c(true), b(false) calls c(true) < 1551034878 993389 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's acyclic < 1551034918 660348 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still more efficient with a stack, because b's locals and c's locals need to share when called from a, but not when b is called directly < 1551035006 497717 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the difference here is that a→b→c is approximately a possible call chain but the full chain never actually happens in practice, thus you can implement it with only two functions' worth of stack space < 1551035013 915141 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the static analysis thinks it needs three < 1551035018 667371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1551035045 93657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the kind of design that ends up with deadlocks in the kernel between the file system driver and two other modules < 1551035050 560763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love it < 1551035093 534563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also about the opcode quiz: "TETRA" is a assembler directive in MMIX, but is not itself a instruction. Other things can apply to other instruction sets (although sometimes, it depend what assembler is in use). Also with 6502, which instruction are possible can also depend what variant of 6502, such as NMOS or CMOS or whatever. < 1551035135 156430 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Glulx, it is necessary to define the maximum amount of stack space needed, although the stack is not addressable in Glulx. < 1551035142 275645 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind-of assumed it wouldn't be using the unofficial instructions < 1551035156 537720 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though on the other hand, if a calls b and b calls c and c calls d, and b and d have 4 bytes of stack frame, and a and c have 8 bytes of stack frame that must be aligned to an 8 byte boundary, then you end up using 28 bytes of stack or 24 bytes of statically allocated variables < 1551035156 601442 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which don't even have consistent names < 1551035161 58788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not really know how to estimate though) < 1551035166 448792 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even functionalities, in some case < 1551035188 800244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Even if you do not use unofficial instructions, still some instruction are difference from NMOS or CMOS 6502. < 1551035205 273335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could also have separate versions of the x86 quiz for the intel notation and the at&t notation < 1551035206 488895 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are stable instructions like LAX, and unstable instructions which are deterministic on some 6502s, deterministic with diferent behaviour on other 6502s, and nondeterministic on still other 6502s; their behaviour often doesn't make much sense even when it's stable) < 1551035209 188050 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551035250 225409 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! My mind is blanking, I feel like I was on the esolang wiki or maybe WikiPedia but I think I remember another visual-based esolang that wasn't Piet or Piet++. Anyone have any idea what that might be? < 1551035255 54173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With LAX, there is actually a bug (even the bugs have bugs in 6502) with immediate operands < 1551035259 810085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course the x86 quiz is tricky because you would have to update it with new instruction names every year < 1551035268 547704 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :galaxie: No, but you can try looking in the categories in esolang wiki < 1551035293 693728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :galaxie: do you mean https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet%2B%2B < 1551035297 189088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551035300 933849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean it wasn't Piet++ < 1551035311 824430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what zzo38 says then, try https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Non-textual < 1551035315 980637 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :galaxie: there are quite a few image-based esolangs; the massive polyglot on Stack Exchange implements many of them at once < 1551035359 802802 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the Turing Tumble is listed in that category < 1551035394 447029 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspicious of the claims that it's TC, given that a) it doesn't have infinite memory and b) the most obvious means of giving it infinite memory (putting an infinite number of identical boards side by side) isn't obviously TC; it might be subtly TC though < 1551035396 405129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that category isn't only for image-based esolangs of course. it contains object-based ones like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Efghij < 1551035407 762231 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and music-based languages like Fugue < 1551035415 140859 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-texual, what didn't I see that.. < 1551035428 483076 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, now my Fugue hello world has got stuck in my head again < 1551035431 226630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't music-based in a different listing? < 1551035448 739629 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprisingly catchy for generated music; perhaps being based on a specific BF program gives it a sort of structure that generated code normally lacks < 1551035451 651610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of which are garbage incidentally, but then, which esolang category isn't) < 1551035488 396793 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to say "Category:Shameful", which is arguably supposed to be entirely garbage, but I have a soft spot for ESME < 1551035494 718391 :galaxie!~galaxie@97.112.67.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braincopter, that was it! Thanks! < 1551035510 63772 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to help < 1551035514 594048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1551035518 952594 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, my first thought was Brainloller < 1551035552 671614 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to define ESME as a terrible language because it's more performance art than language < 1551035575 605881 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like if TURKEY BOMB was defined by example rather than specification (I rather like TURKEY BOMB too) < 1551035581 771817 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*were defined by example < 1551035597 416426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the trick is that the first esolang with any schtick is often great, but it gets boring when a dozen other articles on the wiki copy it < 1551035617 480696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. Ook! has a place in my heart, but it wouldn't if it were invented now < 1551035644 501188 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably better than brainfuck for most of the things brainfuck is good at, except for code golf and the things where the two languages are identical < 1551035657 611292 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language benefits from having an entirely meaningless syntax < 1551035698 326514 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there have been some uses of it in education, to help people understand what is and isn't important in a language < 1551035797 911552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... showing that the syntax isn't important? dunno, grown up to meet both the original and the horrible Hungarian syntax versions of LOGO and Excel sort of shows that syntax in theory isn't important, but bad syntax can make you really hate the language < 1551035833 829910 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a hungarian notation version of LOGO? < 1551035836 282407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep the English FD BK LT RT PU PD thank you < 1551035865 58498 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Not only with x86 there will eventually adding new instructions, although you could perhaps specify a version number (does it even have version numbers?). Glulx has version numbers, although Glulx also has "push" and "pull" which are not themself opcodes but are abbreviations for other opcodes. There are also some extensions which are not part of the core specification. < 1551035873 967939 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I wrote The Waterfall Model Online in Hungarian notation because JavaScript is untyped, and it helped me catch at least one error < 1551035886 915565 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general it's pointless doing it when the compiler does it for you < 1551035887 335290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm not sure how much ... there's definitely a library of function definitions that give hungarian abbreviation synonyms to common commands < 1551035898 238131 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Hungarian the language, not the naming style < 1551035940 510683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the language. not the lpszFoo thing. < 1551035984 114279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, Z-machine is even more difficult. There are two sets of names for instructions (Infocom and Inform), and then different instructions per version (ZIP, EZIP, XZIP, YZIP), features which are Inform extensions, and features which are precluded by Inform extensions. < 1551036004 340383 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lpsz" seems broken as a type system, anyway; the zero-terminated string /is/ a pointer, under standard C conventions, thus a long pointer to it would be a char**, not a char* < 1551036035 272799 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Microsoft who used "lpsz" for this purpose? < 1551036037 447290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and x86 instructions that existed in certain old AMD cpus but are no longer in the latest ones < 1551036043 262429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the intel extensions won out < 1551036046 370731 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure they invented it but they're the most famous users of it < 1551036048 982731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, that too < 1551036061 487393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Microsoft is just the most popular ones who use it, they're not the first ones < 1551036076 862519 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: haven't even some Intel instructions died out? < 1551036079 771492 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like into < 1551036108 646240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think only some really strange ones that were never intended to be used in mainstream programs, but only to debug the processor or something < 1551036129 25592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: there are a lot that are not allowed in 64-bit mode, but still allowed in 32-bit code < 1551036140 954606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly done to free up some of the one-bit opcode space < 1551036151 211184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think x86 also has different instructions for 64-bits and 32-bits, and maybe also 16-bits I don't know < 1551036153 554044 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me, there was a bit of a row in some minor processor semi-recently (last several years), because it had an instruction to switch the processor into a mode with an entirely different set of opcodes < 1551036174 130396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Doesn't ARM do that? < 1551036176 730300 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it used a different security model, which in practice meant the feature was usable as a hardware backdoor even though that doesn't appear to have been the original intention < 1551036217 380923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, ARM has like three different opcode modes, plus like two or three different vector extensions ... but then, x86 also has three vector extensions now < 1551036240 903673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also some instructions "died out" in the sense that the cpu still supports them but there isn't a good reason to use them < 1551036267 20270 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: more interestingly, there are some duplicate instructions which fit into different naming schemes and have different encodings < 1551036283 311115 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the processor treats them identically, but you're supposed to use one for ints and one for floats in case future processors care about the distinction < 1551036285 675364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but MMIX does that to an extreme < 1551036299 191646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh yes, that was the vector instructions, that mattered for performance for a while < 1551036336 541665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they had pseudo-register that were closer to integer vector execution units and ones that were closer to float vector execution units, and the cpu had to transfer between them if you used the wrong bitwise vector instrs < 1551036339 164837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, MMIX has separate instructions for signed or unsigned 64-bit load/store, even though the function is same. < 1551036353 780917 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aligned and unaligned instructions that don't differ on new cpus unless you turn on some compatibility flag < 1551036357 482223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1551036359 502110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on wait < 1551036373 722236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they differ, but the unaligned ones no longer have a penalty, so you can always write them even for aligned operands < 1551036381 916422 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :movaps versus movups really does matter, IIRC < 1551036400 283180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not in the latest cpu iirc, but let me look it up in the opt'n manuals < 1551036473 605401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, let me look it up in Agner's manuals, that's simpler < 1551036489 420546 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some searches imply that movups is as fast as movaps at moving the data as of Nehalem if the data happens to be aligned < 1551036496 175632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose one possible reason using LDO and LDOU even though is same is for profiling; I have used unofficial 6502 opcodes with same meaning as official ones for profiling in NES/Famicom emulators, before.) < 1551036500 228000 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that the instruction decoder is apparently faster at decoding a movaps instruction < 1551036562 738102 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you use the duplicate NOPs, or are there duplicate instructions that have an actual effect? < 1551036619 75176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: There are both. Mostly it is the duplicate NOPs I used, although the others can also be used. < 1551036647 289901 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I have also used unofficial instructions that do not duplicate any official instructions, in places where those unofficial instructions are seeming like useful.) < 1551036694 562672 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAX seems like it would be useful quite frequently; many of the others are rather specific but (if stable) would still help in places where their functionality happens to be needed < 1551036741 970386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use the stable ones < 1551036744 672142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :chapter 13.9 of https://www.agner.org/optimize/optimizing_assembly.pdf seems to imply that on modern cpus the movdqa have no advantage over the movdqu anymore < 1551036770 267663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm wait, you ask about the single float load instructions instead? hmm < 1551036795 900089 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the difference really is in the instruction decoder, I could believe that movdqa equals movdqu but movaps decodes faster than movups < 1551036809 49533 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even instructions that are equivalent in effect will decode in different ways < 1551036809 929300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure then, maybe this is only for some instructions < 1551036842 942661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, they're really not the same, because movups is for four bytes, whereas movdqa is for a full 16 or 32 byte register < 1551036862 635599 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, movups is the whole register I think < 1551036865 525948 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the p means < 1551036900 443168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551036901 143086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1551036901 893362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1551036902 579514 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference in instruction naming is that movups is effectively treating the register as an array of scalars, whereas movdqu is treating it as one big number < 1551036905 995834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're full register < 1551036908 59670 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a copy that doesn't matter < 1551036919 11895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, I think the difference is that integer vs float like above < 1551036935 449549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to differ in older cpus, and you use the one that mathes the next instructions on that regiseter < 1551036956 689336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do float ops then you use the movups, if you do integer ops next then you use movdqu < 1551036981 14178 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, x86 is just a huge mess :-D < 1551037002 118636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not really the messy part < 1551037007 323182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, especially the modern x86. The original 8088 was not so messy as the modern one. < 1551037013 302441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a performance difference in some Core microarchitectures if you mix "domains" for SSE, the domains being integers vs. floats. < 1551037018 907784 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be considered messy, if not for the fact that it has the rest of x86 to compete with < 1551037043 202904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did you know that to compile 3 byte or longer nops for padding, you want to know which of the first eight integer registers have not been written for a while, because those nops have a false dependency? < 1551037051 928718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the compiler has to think even to just insert a fucking padding < 1551037074 56840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *can* use movdqa to move floats around, and movaps to move integers, but you should be using whatever matches the operations you're going to do with them next. < 1551037076 911730 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that on Intel or AMD or both? < 1551037088 904453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: intel, and possibly only some intel cpus < 1551037089 574077 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC AMD's advice for long NOPs is to just keep stacking operand size modifiers on a NOP < 1551037104 685260 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it goes NOP, WORD PTR NOP, WORD PTR WORD PTR NOP, etc. < 1551037105 449700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, that's also a sad part, you need different nop instructions for the different cpus < 1551037109 251660 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is at least easy to remember < 1551037115 54950 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel's advice is a lot more complex < 1551037117 425855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: amd's decoder handles that well, intel's decoder is slow in that < 1551037119 800846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know that, but yes it is a messy thing in x86, and x86 is also extremely messy in too many ways < 1551037124 73138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX is better. < 1551037129 515555 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: presumably this is why AMD advises it :-D < 1551037136 970669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, possibly < 1551037158 449339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is intel optimization manual chapter 3.5.1.10 < 1551037171 381773 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 has an unofficial two-byte NOP which is basically just NOP with an immediate argument < 1551037186 976505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "mixing SIMD data types" is right after, in 3.5.1.11. < 1551037187 171462 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a NOP version with a two-byte argument, making an unofficial three-byte NOP? < 1551037218 777485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, and it is faster than just one byte NOP twice. There is NOP with two byte argument, although it isn't actually no operation; it reads from the specified address and then does nothing with the result. < 1551037240 528582 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, OK, so that might actually do something with some mappers < 1551037246 588788 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they'll be able to observe the read even though the read value isn't used < 1551037254 254805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: intel recommends LEA with a mod-m/r byte and a one-byte displacement < 1551037268 56534 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which might be used if some addresses have side effects for reading, such as some PPU registers, and some mappers) < 1551037276 412259 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NES has some registers which have side effects when read < 1551037279 967813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange, because there _is_ a nop with a two-byte opcode and one byte of mod-m/r < 1551037283 564242 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: where is the address being loaded? < 1551037284 111652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently that's slower or something < 1551037296 801508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: back in the same register < 1551037310 539163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: like, loads the address 0[EAX] to EAX < 1551037314 950778 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even conviced that's a /false/ dependency at this point < 1551037318 501796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 0[ESI] to ESI < 1551037327 770489 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, I wouldn't expect "x = x;" to be a NOP < 1551037339 133275 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I wouldn't be surprised if it did nothing, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it did something < 1551037354 754025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but this isn't C, and the optimization manual explicitly says that it's a true nop < 1551037356 33055 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if x was being changed concurrently in another thread < 1551037371 155099 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess that as we're talking about a register here, it can't be shared with anything < 1551037379 973136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The other NOPs have no special hardware support. Their input and output registers are interpreted by the hardware. Therefore, a code generator should arrange to use the register containing the oldest value as input, so that the NOP will dispatch and release RS resources at the earliest possible opportunity." < 1551037397 398490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case I believe the optimization manual knows what it's talking about. I know it has typos, I've reported at least one, but usually it's right. < 1551037398 168140 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Other" meaning anything else than the "xchg eax, eax" one-byte NOP.) < 1551037417 587303 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the other cases of xchg even have their same meanings? < 1551037437 357200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what do you mean "their same meanings"? < 1551037457 66747 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, the code of xchg eax, eax was repurposed for nop < 1551037458 477074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the statement talks about other nop instructions they recommend, not about other cases of xchg < 1551037464 195462 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as on a 32-bit processor it's a true nop and was commonly used for that purpose < 1551037481 232930 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a 64-bit processor, an actual xchg eax, eax instruction would clear the top 32 bits of rax < 1551037494 651177 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xchg eax, eax would have had to be given a different encoding < 1551037519 938956 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if the xchg r, r instructions with different registers than eax twice still have the same encoding as on 32-bit x86, or whether those were also moved < 1551037534 40335 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the linux kernel has a header with n-byte nops for various n < 1551037540 287418 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on various microarchitectures < 1551037592 139147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm < 1551037593 230584 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551037594 147668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: The one-byte instruction has an implicit EAX as one operand. < 1551037600 229368 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, NES has some registers that have side effects when read. Some mappers also have, such as my Famizork mapper, where the bankswitching register doesn't care about read/write. It does care the value in the data bus though; the bankswitching register is mapped in many addresses including some over the mirrors of the console's RAM, so it switches to the bank specified by the value in RAM. < 1551037613 755931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It's 90+rd for "XCHG EAX, r32" (for the 32-bit size). < 1551037625 97547 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so instructions like xchg eax, ebx still keep their encodings? < 1551037634 374954 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder what the canoncial way to clear the top 32 bits of rax are < 1551037653 242542 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :movzx eax, rax, possibly < 1551037672 697221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know of any other mapper that maps stuff over stuff internal to the console, except that MMC5 spies on some of the PPU registers.) < 1551037677 772622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they use 87 /r for XCHG r/m32, r32. < 1551037703 161449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that is a good question, now I'm confused. lookging up how this works in the manual. you know by the way that XCHG EAX with a register has a special one-byte shortcut encoding, and that's the one byte nop, right? < 1551037721 614914 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551037724 57811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas eg. XCHG EDX, EDX is a different encoding with a normal mod-r/m byte < 1551037727 919156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't invalidate your question < 1551037814 633508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly this is the kind of info that is really hard to find in the intel manual < 1551037846 151323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Famizork also uses the smallest bank size than all other mappers: A bank is only a single byte long.) < 1551037887 335684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume "xchg eax, eax" encoded the long way (87 C0) would actually clear the top 32 bits, but I doubt that's the "canonical" way. < 1551037937 375088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: ndisasm decodes 90 to "nop" and 87 C0 to "xchg eax, eax", but assembles "xchg eax, eax" into a nop: http://ix.io/1BXb < 1551037945 930395 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading around this subject, I discovered that apparently "xor r10d, r10d" is a more efficient way to zero r10 than "xor r10, r10" is, even though you need a rex prefix either way < 1551037988 626853 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some processors only recognise the zero-extended 32-bit version as a special case (this is the case that matters for the first eight registers as those don't need the prefix) < 1551038064 383056 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a mess < 1551038073 506663 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why does it do tat? < 1551038107 112464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would guess they haven't specifically considered that case, and it just falls out of how it got implemented. < 1551038207 385569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU as, on the other hand, assembles "xchg %eax, %eax" into 87 C0. < 1551038227 983168 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, one processor architecture idea I had was to make the registers one bit wider than the memory that's intended to be read/written with them < 1551038239 644841 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then remove the flags, conditionals instead look at the values in a register < 1551038243 266206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...in 64-bit code. In 32-bit code it assembles it to a 90-nop.) < 1551038260 15972 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, e.g., jump-if-carry would jump if the top bit of a register were set < 1551038261 160485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess for proper comparison I should've said bits 64 to nasm too. < 1551038271 441582 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which makes a difference < 1551038278 557258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1551038283 72104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's reasonable enough. < 1551038297 931938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551038308 589309 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the AMD manual says that the 0x90 opcode, if it would exchange EAX with EAX (that isn't always the case because of REX prefix), has special handling to preserve the upper dword of RAX < 1551038343 257182 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a reasonable way to define the behaviour (although I think defining it as NOP would be even more reasonable!) < 1551038372 58714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it does say it's treated as a NOP < 1551038385 20443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also the intel manual also says that at the XCHG instruction's description < 1551038389 690013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just harder to fine < 1551038391 419871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :find < 1551038395 874264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless that is strange < 1551038420 631986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the AMD manual actually uses the phrase "true NOP" < 1551038427 732074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: NOP-e. < 1551038472 279935 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the intel uses the phrase "alias for NOP" (as in, there's a set of NOP instructions documented separately) < 1551038507 235771 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd have to invent a new one byte nop otherwise. And one byte opcodes are a very scarce resource. < 1551038543 152163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: as for zeroing the register, I think that also depends on the cpu and you'd best check what the optimization manual for the right processor series says or what agner's manual says < 1551038584 46354 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: zeroing an entire register, the consensus is that if you don't care about the flags, 32-bit xor is the best option regardless of the register < 1551038598 30202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still it look like strange if 0x90 opcode does not normally do that, then why it should do then? < 1551038606 713369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, I also thought of putting the carry on top of the register in such a way that only a few instructions access it, the others that write the register write an unspecified value in that bit, and the ones that read the register usually ignore that bit, except for special ones that read the carry < 1551038612 511045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is strange in Glulx is the "copys" and "copyb" instructions, which work differently from all other instructions. < 1551038620 416105 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in partial zeroes of the high byes (e.g. rax %= 256) < 1551038627 988409 :grumble!~iceicebab@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: grumble < 1551038630 907821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: What happens if you put in a REX prefix that doesn't have REX.W set in front of 90? < 1551038655 613335 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1551038666 668815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm quite sure the opt manual says things about that, both for index registers and vector registers < 1551038676 421913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ndisasm -b 64 decodes both "40 90" and "42 90" as plain nop, but not sure if I'd trust that.) < 1551038703 678175 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I had better go home, I think < 1551038714 413386 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone (I typoed that as "byte", maybe I should have left it?) < 1551038731 592732 :ais523_!93bcc34b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.75 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1551038904 971605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IIUC if you make it exchange EAX with R8L or R8L with R8L then it will clear the bits above bit 32 of all registers involved, but check the manuals before you want to depend on that < 1551038977 957389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I was just wondering what happens if you still make it "XCHG EAX, EAX" but just put in REX prefix, either just plain 40 or with the SIB index register extension bit (which doesn't affect anything) set. < 1551039179 23647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, interesting. the intel opt'n manual does talk about zeroing reigsters, but doesn't seem to say that to clear one of the high eight index reigsters with XOR or SUB, you should use 32-bit instead of 64-bit operands < 1551039214 576779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or I'm looking at the wrong place) < 1551039282 163183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you use the one-byte shortcut XCHG EAX,EAX with a REX prefix that does nothing, that will still be a nop < 1551039312 467645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if you use the normal non-shortcut encoding that has the mod-r/m byte < 1551039340 942910 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551039342 582961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think with the mod-r/m byte it will clear the top half of the registersso won't be a nop < 1551039381 635321 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the question is whether the REX prefix does something in this case... namely turn the nop into a "proper" xchg eax,eax. < 1551039509 352615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess it could also raise a #UD, wouldn't that be fun :) ) < 1551039597 870087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I told you it doesn't < 1551039605 927153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with the REX prefix, it would be a NOP < 1551039609 756630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I read the manual < 1551039623 604662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a less efficient NOP of course, but still a NOP < 1551040352 600179 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551040393 392325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :experimentally you're right < 1551041090 482498 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551041211 257718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0xC69B455dd809C270; asm(".byte 0x90" /* one-byte NOP */: "+a"(x)); printf("x=%016lX,\n", x); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551041212 531499 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=C69B455DD809C270, < 1551041215 260318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0xC69B455dd809C270; asm(".byte 0x87, 0xC0" /* ordinary XCHG EAX, EAX */: "+a"(x)); printf("x=%016lX,\n", x); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551041216 460244 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=00000000D809C270, < 1551041261 149210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x40 0x90 is what we were discussing < 1551041323 223509 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0xC69B455dd809C270; asm(".byte 0x40, 0x90" /* shortcut NOP with redundant REX prefix */: "+a"(x)); printf("x=%016lX,\n", x); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551041324 700054 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=C69B455DD809C270, < 1551041329 583276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yep < 1551041470 308385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I request specifically the R8 register in a gcc extended asm statement? < 1551042275 125085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0x0912A80D0A994D81; uint64_t y = 0xC8162E5AEE063460; asm("mov %1, %%r8\n\t.byte 0x45, 0x87, 0xC0\n\tmov %%r8, %1" /* XCHG R8D, R8D */: "+a"(x),"+r"(y):: "cc","r8"); printf("x=%016lX, y=%016lX,\n", x, y); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551042276 287850 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=0912A80D0A994D81, y=00000000EE063460, < 1551042280 166521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0x0912A80D0A994D81; uint64_t y = 0xC8162E5AEE063460; asm("mov %1, %%r8\n\t.byte 0x41, 0x90\n\tmov %%r8, %1" /* shortcut XCHG EAX, R8D */: "+a"(x),"+r"(y):: "cc","r8"); printf("x=%016lX, y=%016lX,\n", x, y); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551042281 244074 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=00000000EE063460, y=000000000A994D81, < 1551043985 871859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd tmp; >a.c echo $'#include \n#include \n''int main() { uint64_t x = 0x0912A80D0A994D81, z; register uint64_t y asm("%r8") = 0xC8162E5AEE063460; asm(".byte 0x41, 0x90" /* shortcut XCHG RAX, R8D */: "+a"(x),"+r"(y):: "cc"); z = y; printf("x=%016lX, y=%016lX,\n", x, z); return 0; }'; gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -Wall -O a.c; ./a.out < 1551043987 136269 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=00000000EE063460, y=000000000A994D81, < 1551044013 679007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's the official answer for how to get the value to the R8 register for the asm statement, per https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.3.0/gcc/Local-Register-Variables.html#Local-Register-Variables < 1551044656 310165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the required syntax is strange < 1551045063 118097 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umehqyighwkhjnps QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1551045433 662236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60071&oldid=60069 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+2) 10/* Hello World */ fixed a typo in the second program that made it output "Hhllo World!" instead of "Hello World!" < 1551045509 219875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could include the % in a local register variable, I've only seen it as `register uint64_t y asm("r8")`. < 1551045513 522992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both seem to work. < 1551045704 765605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the docs aren't specifically clear about this. I include the percent sign and hope that if I shouldn't include the percent then I'll get a warning or error. < 1551045802 780658 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inline asm expects at&t notation, so I expect I should name registers the way at&t notation names them < 1551045901 558880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reasonable, although so is the argument that % is just the sigil for a register in an assembly statement and not part of the register name. < 1551045932 975352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do get an error for invalid names, so since both %r8 and r8 don't error out, I'm guessing they're treated the same. < 1551046118 376961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know any sense in which it's not part of the register name, unless you're using intel syntax, which we clearly aren't using. the rust people argue that the name of the macro is `print` rather than `print!` and the `!` is a sigil to _invoke_ the macro, which makes sense because if you want to _define_ a macro, you don't use the bang. < 1551046136 186517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a context where you refer to the register without the percent sign < 1551046150 490412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C/C++ code with gcc or assembly code < 1551046361 353568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in a 'register' variable you can. :) < 1551046428 534202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More seriously, the GNU as manual says "AT&T register operands are preceded by ‘%’", which you can definitely read as saying the % part is not part of the register, but part of the syntax for referring to a register. < 1551046465 290962 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do intel syntax inline asm these days < 1551046489 749095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the canonical excample at https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.3.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html#Extended-Asm puts "rdx" in the clobber list without a % prefix. < 1551046523 954377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Look for "rdtsc" on the page.) > 1551046539 133763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60072&oldid=60071 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+1) 10/* Truth Machine */ Fixed some errors in the code here too. I probably shouldn't have tried to copy the code directly from another computer. < 1551046560 998092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what an "excample" is.) < 1551046563 809352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1551046575 823632 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, by assembling with yasm < 1551046592 530644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use Intel syntax with GCC as well. < 1551046608 409717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, good point about that example in the manual < 1551046631 603750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By switching with -masm=intel globally, or by adding the right ".intel_syntax noprefix" directives around an inline asm segment. < 1551046669 932692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I don't think there is a "resume whatever the previous syntax was" directive, so you can't make an inline asm segment that works both with -masm=intel and not.) < 1551046672 752382 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1551046709 977994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They should have a .pop_syntax.) < 1551046718 109928 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551046730 786856 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like scoped to labels < 1551046745 311321 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :.intel_syntax noprefix 1f; ... 1: < 1551046748 993640 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbered relative labels are tg < 1551046762 152411 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's popsection too < 1551046764 373575 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: youv'e seen the metadata table tricks that Linux does? < 1551046778 349562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not? < 1551046835 480104 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551046873 539440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v4.20/arch/arm/include/asm/assembler.h#L246-L251 < 1551046908 539560 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that macro inserts an instruction sequence x, and also writes an entry into a special section __ex_table. the linker is told with "a" to append all of these into that section < 1551046920 617583 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the entry refers to the address of the instruction sequence < 1551046930 236474 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is handled in object code using relocations in the usual way < 1551046936 877216 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux uses this trick for many things < 1551046951 286164 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular example, the goal is to annotate instructions which read from userspace memory < 1551046964 754541 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if they fault, the kernel can return -EFAULT or whatever, instead of panicing as with a usual kernel-mode fault < 1551046966 974627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Linux used to have many dirty tricks back when gcc didn't have all the features they needed. these days less and less of them are needed. < 1551046983 514727 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also use it for various sorts of self modifying code < 1551046996 518556 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the kernel has a table of every single LOCK prefix in the code < 1551047007 278827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1551047012 32139 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a SMP-capable kernel is booted on single-core machine, it can overwrite those LOCKs with NOPs < 1551047024 357423 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many forms of smc in the linux kernel < 1551047027 535231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's scary < 1551047039 998012 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do tracing, debugging, and to reoptimize the same binary kernel for different CPUs at boot time < 1551047042 965132 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's even better < 1551047045 776511 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hot(un)plug a CPU < 1551047050 258344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will rewrite them /at runtime/ < 1551047053 461739 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551047053 624307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there was probably an intermediate time betweenm the time when everyone had non-SMP machines and when everyone had SMP machines < 1551047066 340322 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1551047067 854033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wait, seriously? < 1551047078 164036 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know debian shipped a separate -smp kernel at one point, which would avoid the need for this < 1551047087 134671 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's useful in general to have a single kernel binary that works well on as many machines as possible < 1551047090 139020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I believe so < 1551047090 178722 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are machines with hotplugged cpus but only one core in a cpu? < 1551047094 519720 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1551047100 818339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, the separate smp makes sense because there are differences other than lock prefixes < 1551047106 277460 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551047118 369724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was back in x86_32 < 1551047121 900051 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course ksplice uses self modifying code too < 1551047126 178781 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how I know about thi sstuff < 1551047133 166533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it also has to play nice with the OTHER forms of smc < 1551047144 568006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most x86_64 cpus have more than one core, so the non-smp kernels became irrelevant < 1551047154 788906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1551047155 780950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1551047164 613154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might still want them in a virtualized environment < 1551047167 916675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smc tricks use stop_machine() which essentially gives one kernel thread full control of the machine (ignoring SMM and the other stuff that goes on below the OS layer) < 1551047177 246631 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think that's part of the justification, yeah < 1551047210 30427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people do run linux on underpowered arm machines < 1551047215 232602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those may still be single-cored < 1551047215 294804 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: the PowerBook Duo had a hot-plug FPU < 1551047222 199546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the dock < 1551047234 37717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these things are scary < 1551047243 584338 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it as a graphics workstation at your desk, then take it portable and run the same code, albeit slower, with soft FPU < 1551047247 647633 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really neat imo < 1551047257 522797 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the modern version is having a GPU on Thunderbolt or something < 1551047262 191067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :features that are only ever used in servers in banking industry that have to be super-reliable < 1551047267 44735 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551047281 818447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have a hot-plug motherboard too? < 1551047286 775568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how that would work < 1551047312 167849 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the powerbook? < 1551047317 223827 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPUs as discrete chips were common back then < 1551047330 180462 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to run some bus lines from the internal mobo to the doct through the dock connector < 1551047336 15065 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd probably need that for other things, anyway < 1551047359 290064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"run the same code, albeit slower, with soft FPU" => that was done a lot without hotplug too, on machines with optional cpus, such as the 386 and 486, where programs overwrite float operations at load time < 1551047361 168995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Lenovo has switched to Thunderbolt-based docks, and some of those do have external GPUs, like the https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/docking/universal-cable-docks-thunderbolt/Thunderbolt3-Graphics-DockUK/p/G0A10170UK < 1551047361 412918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dock is a thing you slide the whole laptop into, like it's a huge tape cartridge or something :D < 1551047366 83743 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right < 1551047391 565108 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think that was common on OS Classic because, even aside from this weird PowerBook, most macs didn't ship with a FPU, but many people would add one < 1551047392 723878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the first one and half bytes of the operation were either WAIT; ESC or INT < 1551047429 475058 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the 68LC040 has a hardware erratum which prevents kernel mode FPU emulation from working correctly :/ < 1551047439 95893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needn't even be a discrete chip or anything, as long as the same binary is distributed to clients with different machines < 1551047462 519066 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I discovered when trying to install Debian on a LC 475 back... gosh, almost 20 years ago < 1551047469 887279 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smh, i'm old now < 1551047475 667771 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I'm older than I've ever been < 1551047478 130063 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I'm older still < 1551047486 526838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it needn't even overwrite the individual calls in load time, so it doesn't need a symbol table, it can just have the emulation routines overwrite their caller < 1551047549 740985 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 68k mac linux bootloader is an ordinary OS Classic program which kexecs linux < 1551047572 672803 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies on macos to set up some of the hardware < 1551047583 367888 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides which the actual boot rom is only equipped to boot mac os < 1551047591 452241 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and maaaaybe A/UX) < 1551047658 115338 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551047676 701115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PPC Mac Linux I was using ran the kernel hosted on the Mach microkernel. < 1551047679 898034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux < 1551047740 2989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the bootloader was slightly odd too. < 1551047742 83027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551047746 293139 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that as well < 1551047780 235146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have no problem with that unless it slows down the boot process too much. doesn't windows do something like that too these days? < 1551047789 386360 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1551047803 906991 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I've noticed that every bootloader eventually grows to be an OS, which needs its own bootloader < 1551047816 698362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, sometimes I suspect that it pre-loads some parts of the default windows during the boot menu, at least the parts it can safely discard if you choose to boot a different OS < 1551047820 589074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think on the iBook I could run a more regular Linux? MkLinux was just on the Performa some-number-or-another.) < 1551047821 643040 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1551047825 651816 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows bootloader that is < 1551047835 764169 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, the G3+ OpenFirmware macs are easier to do linux < 1551047841 394263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran stock Debian on a toilet-seat iBook among others < 1551047852 812149 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OFW can load an ELF (or whatever) image kernel easily < 1551047858 723817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, yes, they did the OpenFirmware thing. < 1551047863 667010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"toilet-seat iBook"? what's that? < 1551047867 306027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: google it > 1551047876 926646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60073&oldid=60072 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+14) 10lowercased the title. < 1551047890 624109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about older apple hw, because they weren't too popular here < 1551047914 102749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern apple are more popular these days < 1551047928 244251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not as popular as in the US, I believe < 1551047935 255299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenFirmware has a Forth shell, it's the greatest thing. < 1551048004 756182 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1551048028 868306 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine spent a while writing a QR code decoder in OFW forth, for OLPC < 1551048073 732900 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a supported way to root the machines, but they ship locked down in order to deter theft. the idea is that you get the lock key out of band. and the easiest / cheapest way would be a qr code < 1551048082 607854 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think in the end it didn't work :/ < 1551048094 501102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used loadlin on DOS to load linux. DOS is less of an operating system than the stuff they cram into boot loaders these days. < 1551048120 318354 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1551048127 599010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BIOSes < 1551048165 434214 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use loadlin and then you could use other hacks to run your Linux root filesystem on FAT16 so they could coexist without partitioning < 1551048174 776200 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay uh, question, if I have a Python interpreter for the esolang I have recently made, would I be wanting to upload it on an external server somewhere or would I be uploading it to esolangs.org directly. < 1551048190 879063 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\LINUX < 1551048244 353988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: when i give up on all software should i write in c or should i make a new language first < 1551048246 323265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh < 1551048248 886991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, those too < 1551048268 439688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was making sure my SS5 was still at least somewhat working (before giving it away), it turned out the EEPROM chip had given up, and the only way I could make it boot was to say "1 0 mkp real-machine-type 1 mkp 8 2 mkp 0 3 mkp 20 4 mkp 87 5 mkp cc 6 mkp 1d 7 mkp c0 c mkp ff d mkp ee e mkp 0 f 0 do i idprom@ xor loop f mkp" in the OpenBoot prompt on every restart. < 1551048275 88818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is grub2 these days? < 1551048289 592002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it still fits a floppy at least < 1551048294 125890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551048297 528304 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a mouthful < 1551048307 886162 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: probably not including every single module < 1551048315 447921 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a minimal boot yeah < 1551048315 619898 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cna loadlin append-load a kernel that's stored on more than one floppy disk? < 1551048320 686660 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1551048327 569465 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1551048333 610281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because these days kernels don't fit floppies either < 1551048386 504185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomethingFawful: If it's of non-trivial size, it's probably a better bet to pick one of the code hosting sites (github, gitlab, bitbucket) and link to that. Or https://github.com/graue/esofiles if graue is actually still accepting pull requests. < 1551048403 53385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: huh, I never tried to have linux and dos coexist without partitioning, except in as much as storing the kernel on the DOS partition < 1551048424 158861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that you can use umsdos or whatever that thing is called to do that, but I don't think it's a particularly good idea < 1551048442 802998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait < 1551048447 326299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone came in with an on-topic question < 1551048457 77730 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes I did. < 1551048495 944031 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say at less than 5 KiB it's size is currently qualifiable as Trivial, but we'll see when I get those last 2 functions done. < 1551048537 873045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomethingFawful: if the interpreter isn't too large and you can and want to allow distributing it without license constraints per https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Copyrights , then you can put it on the wiki < 1551048552 978053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can link from an externally hosted copy no matter what < 1551048574 177105 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks < 1551048642 849887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think somewhere between two and ten screenfuls of text is the boundary what's still reasonable to embed in a wiki article. < 1551048660 534873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you can do as a file upload, I think the existing ones are almost exclusively pictures. < 1551048698 540164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To run DOS program and Linux on same computer I just use Linux, and then use a emulator to run the DOS programs. (There is still the use with DOS; it boots much faster than Linux or Windows, and if you use only DOS programs then it may work much better than other operating systems. Or if you want a sufficiently small operating system for some simple thing, DOS will do.) < 1551048699 977713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not "almost" but "entirely", per https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:MediaStatistics < 1551048749 611026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well sure, that is the reasonable thing to do _now_, when we have machines with tons of memory < 1551048751 125604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why does Bitz hello world2.jpg have application/photoshop as its MIME type, and no links?) < 1551048759 744519 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a powerful video card < 1551048803 967987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we're in esoteric-land. you could upload a polyglot that's both an image and an interpreter. < 1551048806 592343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but still if you have a machine with less memory or other video card, is another thing you might use DOS for, perhaps. < 1551048835 488986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: In this case, looks like someone has uploaded a .psd file with a .jpg extension. < 1551048840 706988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that's why back when I only had such machines, I dual-booted rather than used an emulator < 1551048848 740404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the emulator software was more buggy back then < 1551048880 228500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :psd? what's that? < 1551048891 11124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Photoshop's native file format. < 1551048892 4500 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop document < 1551048900 197499 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1551048909 714845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gimp can open it, that's why I know what's inside.) < 1551049478 239201 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mntolrezwyifxmfz JOIN :#esoteric > 1551050895 649858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60074&oldid=60073 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+108) 10added a link to the offical implementation. < 1551051149 954523 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551052071 755179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551052335 573650 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551052803 90943 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1551053504 530471 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551053628 393485 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551053628 505451 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551054182 810082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does DOS even have a "do not fragment" flag? Otherwise is it even possible to boot from a non-DOS kernel stored there, since the bootloader for the other operating system might not undertsand the DOS file system? < 1551054720 390862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551055049 471741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does. IIRC, the SYS command specifically ensures that the two files *DOS* needs to boot (MSDOS.SYS + IO.SYS) are stored contiguously and at the start of the data area. At least on some versions. < 1551055097 743313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't think it does have a "do not fragment" flag for files, that is. A lot of bootloaders know how to understand FAT, though. < 1551055686 270040 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: kernel update < 1551055757 491357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551056106 717052 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it would be possible with something like LOADLIN which runs as a DOS program < 1551056111 696896 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the LILO approach < 1551056121 216741 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LILO, iirc can boot a kernel off ext2 which is not contiguous < 1551056134 920054 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stashes the fragment addresses somewhere (MBR?) < 1551056588 745208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the sector map is in a file (/boot/map). Not sure how it finds that file though. < 1551056806 969925 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most likely its own sector address is in the MBR < 1551056812 447838 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's small enough to be guaranteed to be one chunk < 1551056814 73628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1551056830 422998 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember why /boot was traditionally separate anyway < 1551057100 278582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1551057102 46549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 250050Z 27021KT 9999 -SHRA SCT032 OVC047 07/02 Q1030 RMK WIND 670FT 28020G31KT < 1551057344 310941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Problems with accessing all the sectors of large disks via BIOS functions was at least one reason. < 1551057356 809192 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1551057369 935629 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days one has an EFI partition instead < 1551057392 779007 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty salty that they went with EFI rather than OpenFirmware for modern PC hardware < 1551057409 563285 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried coding for EFI, although I know it's not that difficult and you can even target it with Rust < 1551057420 248971 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses PE executables, and there's a large set of system calls available < 1551057428 289057 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think you could write nontrivial application software to run in EFI < 1551057438 95910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if you have access to multiple cores or other fanciness < 1551058649 978862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULTIOCULAR CAT FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES < 1551058662 643591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMILING SPIDER FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES < 1551058708 827530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1551058716 265257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one has adopted MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING? < 1551058809 214238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re do not fragment flag, if I understand correctly, the S attribute on files is or was interpreted by defragmenters as a sign to not move the file, as in, keep all clusters where it currently resides, and this was relied on by past bootloaders that are like lilo in that they load the system files from fixed locations, < 1551058821 483929 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BULLET WITH BUTTERFLY WINGS < 1551058888 534700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the boot loader of current versions of DOS actually parse the root directory and the FAT enough that this is no longer necessary, except possibly on ancient disks with sectors smaller than 512 bytes. < 1551058917 121146 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION implemented FAT12 once for a course project < 1551058919 14934 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not hard < 1551058941 558378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, but you also have to implement fat16 to boot from a hard disk < 1551058946 811633 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1551058971 169270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh you only have to implement the part that reads, not the part that writes, and you don't need to descend into directories, because the files needed at boot are in the root directory < 1551059035 572968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS can also boot from a compressed filesystem, in which case I believe the three system files will be marked such that they aren't compressed, but I don't know the details of this, because I never tried to set that up, I only made file systems other than the boot fs compressed < 1551059060 756178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also at least one third-party software that makes DOS support a custom file system and lets it boot from it < 1551059204 729091 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, which one? < 1551059217 649681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a separate /boot is practical for various reasons. I use a separate boot because I use grub-l, which doesn't understand ext4, but my root file system is ext4. one could use a separate /boot so that the boot loader doesn't have to understand RAID, or EFI partition tables, or even access the boot disk on hardware level at, or to boot from hard disk but use an nfs mount for most of the file system, etc < 1551059252 842711 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551059253 835305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to boot using loadlin, which uses the underlying DOS to read the kernel (and initrd), and DOS only reads FAT-12 and FAT-16 < 1551059265 592893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for RAID servers, I like to put the bootloader on a USB stick < 1551059304 293127 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a server with full disk encryption, and the USB stick had both the bootloader and the encryption key. so it was capable of unattended boot, but I could take the USB stick out and ship the rest of it cross-country without worrying about my data being read < 1551059338 77708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, at one point I even booted windows 95 from a floppy disk, to avoid having to set up and maintain a bootloader that can choose between booting DOS and Win95 and Linux on the same machine and hard disk. < 1551059364 768477 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1551059381 733333 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITD i used loadlin and my 'bootloader' menu was in AUTOEXEC.BAT < 1551059385 408892 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Win98/Linux < 1551059397 897183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 98 was tg < 1551059404 344193 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :later on I triple booted Win98/Win2k/Linux and used NTLDR as my first bootloader < 1551059412 103893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like you said above, boot loaders these days contain a whole operating system, so there are few things for which you'd need a separate /boot if you're willing to trust the boot loader < 1551059416 23018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🎿👢🥾 < 1551059423 42683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple boot < 1551059435 748139 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was surprisingly easy. you'd install LILO/GRUB into the non-master boot record, dd those 512 bytes onto the NT drive and you're ready < 1551059466 169264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: just Win98/Linux is fine. that's what all the Linux distributions were geared to support, to get people into Linux. I did triple boot among DOS, Linux, and Win95OSR2, and I didn't quite trust the Win95 enough, so its boot went on the floppy < 1551059491 915915 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember if she had any other weird boot setups < 1551059513 791640 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written my own MBR programs < 1551059515 974687 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bootloaders though < 1551059516 682345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when you used windows nt as your kernel with linux userspace < 1551059516 772597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :demos < 1551059517 34162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh! Win98/Win2k/Linux triple book. nice. < 1551059527 868998 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if by "when" you mean "now"? < 1551059530 552796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551059539 417169 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm literally talking to you through mosh in WSL < 1551059541 17796 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Win10 < 1551059548 260121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am aware < 1551059550 872880 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1551059558 955366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I tried too. I wrote one that just wrote a message on the screen. < 1551059580 538057 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched back to Windows last year after 15 years as a die-hard Linux user < 1551059589 516088 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shocked my friends much more than me changing gender < 1551059610 545398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if you had a single-use halting oracle what would you ask it twh < 1551059637 532287 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can entropy be reversed < 1551059672 613753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1551059690 606747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grub-l setup is hopelessly obsolete. I'd have to get rid of it if I used a boot hard disk larger than two terabytes, but that might not happen soon: even if I buy larger hard disks, the boot disk will probably be one of the two I have now. < 1551059698 241200 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's grub-l < 1551059712 505749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's the collective name for the grub versions with major version number 0 < 1551059719 90790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :any grub that isn't grub2 or grub4dos < 1551059737 715635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub with 1 in its version number counts as grub2 before it was released < 1551059738 29440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551059747 218130 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just old grub < 1551059752 411250 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551059791 92157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably want to switch to grub2 for my next computer even if grub-l could technically work though, as a way to introduce redundancy so that I can boot quickly if the boot hard disk dies. < 1551059850 426933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ugh, now my Fugue hello world has got stuck in my head again < 1551059852 89303 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1332) ugh, now my Fugue hello world has got stuck in my head again < 1551059895 910758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? module < 1551059896 964867 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field. < 1551059912 387833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits module < 1551059913 932540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän < 1551059923 262201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the joke twh < 1551059940 136236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg module < 1551059941 887985 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6169:2015-11-02 learn A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field. < 1551059987 3221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vector space < 1551059988 188078 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vector space is just a module over a field. < 1551059989 372021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1551060128 987533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lie bracket < 1551060131 382982 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. < 1551060141 306670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg lie bracket < 1551060142 924965 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6174:2015-11-02 le/rn lie bracket/Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. < 1551060150 986909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this entry outdated twh < 1551060265 203018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we could amend it s/Poli/Most poli/ < 1551060283 171544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't completely true in the past either, there were always some exceptions < 1551060300 297079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who pinged me? < 1551060311 127083 :SomethingFawful!63eb15ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.235.21.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551060339 575637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1551060348 390627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an olist and a pbflist < 1551060364 615604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how can entropy be reversed <-- i think shachaf is subtly hinting that the oracle only gives one bit of answer. < 1551060366 327098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about Ada, maybe you have a highlight on that? < 1551060467 434819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the olist was almost a week ago < 1551060490 788177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: what's the joke twh <-- hm i guess there isn't one. < 1551060542 26982 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Let's be honest, OS choice is _clearly_ more significant and invariant than gender, anyways < 1551060564 397352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm not surprised on anyone switching back to windows. windows has changed a lot, and hardware too. < 1551060574 495699 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are people who dual-boot gender < 1551060576 950180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There as one, see below. < 1551060579 656016 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: indeed < 1551060581 565952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of computer environment things changed. < 1551060586 119934 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: and linux has changed too, and not for the better < 1551060588 50623 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s y s t e m d < 1551060590 684194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1551060594 853701 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm still not free, because WSL runs systemd :( < 1551060604 41749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not changing to windows, but I can at least understand it better < 1551060606 490723 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another advantage of windos is that more of the weird ham radio software runs in windows < 1551060616 80773 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an easier switch than I thought < 1551060619 195111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all operating systems are bad < 1551060619 283894 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a slippery slope < 1551060623 576231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result of being software < 1551060628 899625 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a new laptop, thought "hm I'll poke around Win10 while I decide which distro to install" < 1551060632 952110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"might as well get chrome" < 1551060641 445274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was required to do a lot of things on windows for work, in my current job and my previous job too < 1551060643 449405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey this is actually usable. what, there's a tiling WM built in?" < 1551060654 105829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you could still use both windows and linux < 1551060656 654898 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wow it boots fast and the battery life is incredible" < 1551060663 551295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: There as one, see below. <-- i'm not convinced i considered it a joke when writing it. or now. < 1551060665 143042 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let's try out this WSL thing" < 1551060665 207690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like computers or disks are so expensive that you can't have both < 1551060668 913405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1551060675 143792 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have literally only needed actual Linux one time < 1551060677 390224 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I used a VM < 1551060684 173217 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even really need it then < 1551060692 498526 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just easier than figuring out how to install adb in Windows < 1551060704 350316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, they were added within two minutes of each other. > 1551060717 397586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex/draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60075&oldid=58971 5* 03Cortex 5* (-811) 10Blanked the page < 1551060741 37905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? d-module < 1551060742 292110 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. < 1551060788 181251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd wisdom; find -type l -printf "%p -> %l\n" # should all of these symlinks in wisdom exist? < 1551060788 937419 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :./СССР -> ссср \ ./the usual suspect -> usual suspect \ ./perpetuum mobile -> perpetual motion machine \ ./r.i.p. -> rip \ ./☆ -> * \ ./h4gb4rd -> hagb4rd \ ./issue -> .doorstop \ ./the reals -> real \ ./off by two error -> off by two \ ./wolfram -> stephen wolfram < 1551060798 478452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1551060839 768728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? * < 1551060840 911546 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twinkle, twinkle, little star! < 1551060898 644972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, neither is a joke. a vector space really _is_ just a module over a field. < 1551060928 943829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is a joke individually, the joke is the two definitions taken together. < 1551060936 197547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circular definitions. Is the joke. > 1551060954 217176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pyhton (sic)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60076&oldid=60074 5* 03Something Fawful 5* (+95) 10aded categories < 1551060990 587847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? applicative functor < 1551060991 740501 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1551061049 895495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: actually the module one is sort of a joke. just not a very good one. < 1551061050 346587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1551061117 914477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your jokes are good and you should feel good hth < 1551061130 880147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than mine at least < 1551061137 756655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1551061139 470524 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:1005) LIST OF ACRONYMS: List Integrating Some Terminology Of Fine Authentic Credibility Relating to Our New Year Media System \ 505) Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though? \ 481) game where you flip a coin but it's really really big \ 856) i like the idea that if you name your country a Soviet Republic you automatically get the right to call up Lenin on the telephone and complain about bathroom pranks < 1551061154 474074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1551061155 221410 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: \ 195) hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money < 1551061164 625782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-151.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I even have a good joke somewhere in there. maybe the vacuum tube one isn't good either. < 1551061169 795157 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie I like your remark < 1551061389 767099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Windows or Linux if you want (since many programs can run on both anyways), or dual-boot if you want, but I find Linux is mostly much better than Windows (although there is also stuff that both Linux and Windows do badly, as well as stuff that work better with Windows, but mostly Linux is much better). < 1551061412 453801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's a hungarian notation version of LOGO? <-- now i'm wondering what prefixes it uses. iirc Logo itself already uses : as a sigil < 1551061421 41780 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I've found is that running Linux on a laptop is just hell. < 1551061433 482987 :simeon28!~simeon@public-255-137.nat.utoronto.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1551061457 499929 :simeon28!~simeon@public-255-137.nat.utoronto.ca QUIT :Client Quit < 1551061465 868835 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might also prefer to purchase a computer with Linux already installed. (I purchased the computer I am using now it came with Linux already installed. Although, it is not a laptop computer, but they also sell laptop computers with Linux, too) < 1551061513 76666 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551061650 674007 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1551061673 976550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hlnp < 1551061674 601917 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/$\(^\| $[. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1551071272 692513 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've probably seen me on #haskell once or twice? < 1551071327 814111 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been a passive observer of esolangs before, written a location-based BF, and i have something like half a spec together for a language based on Linda < 1551071337 12894 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess just looks like a weird platonic Erlang < 1551071357 762309 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never was too active here though < 1551072528 708202 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: musl reveals a few bugs in it. > 1551072555 921681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Increment14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60077 5* 03Cortex 5* (+492) 10Created page with "'''Increment''' == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Character !! What it does |- | Any character except the ones listed below || Increment the accumulator by the charact..." < 1551072571 105084 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the main one I know is that it has the wrong x87 settings, and since musl's libm uses long doubles, it actually ends up showing that. < 1551072630 856388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfd9001: What is the half of the spec so far? < 1551072671 848066 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Screen has the wrong settings? in what sense < 1551072679 782632 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, it's handwritten, sec < 1551072690 408875 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, I mean WSL has this bug < 1551072695 475254 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551072701 189025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551072836 850672 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465424725146075136/549463743395004416/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465424725146075136/549463882922721311/unknown.png no discussion of syntax in here yet, but i can get to the general idea < 1551072914 633390 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, you should be imaging a Linda-like tuplespace on which abstract processes are trying to pull tuples that match patterns. Their output is just committing more tuples to the bag < 1551072986 336522 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ("word", x, y, z) -> (z, "otherword", x, x) could describe a machine that matches a tuple where x, y, and z are free variables, then sticks them into the pattern of its output on the right < 1551072999 710204 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it goes right back into the same bag < 1551073034 757446 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine an efficient compiler would try to inline work, and then it'd all be managed from "the bag" by a work-stealing scheduler < 1551073123 642014 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :side effects/atomic actions could be performed by passing tuples to "special machines" you pass arguments and a callback name < 1551073151 772504 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like (cat, a, b, callback) -> (callback, a+b) < 1551073242 743865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can see what you mean now < 1551073277 455604 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's far from a fully-baked idea < 1551073296 972617 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably could use some sort of a combinator < 1551073347 929156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1551073623 116721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly multiple tuples in either side of the definition (especially if machines are selected at random)? < 1551073648 431635 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no guaranteed order < 1551073700 900249 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or we could instead explicitly make curried machines, ie. matching on one machine creates another machine which does its work and then stops watching the bag < 1551073739 927859 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you could do that then if you want to do, I suppose < 1551073810 970756 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, I'd imagine that a machine can only wait on one tuple match at once, so as to avoid deadlock < 1551073851 131590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1551074133 251333 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or we can have some machine that can glom together two tuples < 1551074167 451802 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whichever way you slice it, it kind of hurts the platonic beauty of the thing. I can't really decide which way to go < 1551074185 196409 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ok with the idea of one machine outputting multiple tuples, conceptually. It'd make perfect sense in Linda < 1551074250 235385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you can try < 1551074292 122574 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd kiiiiiinda lean towards curried machines being the prettiest solution (maybe then offering uncurried machines as syntactical sugar) < 1551074307 617714 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems best that i write all that down before I start implementing, haha < 1551074355 694727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, write down before implementing, perhaps write it on the computer. Yes, curried could do < 1551074533 678899 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this still the F-algebra thing? < 1551074545 972872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo T-algebras are where it's at < 1551074549 412687 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, this is an older idea I had < 1551074609 755391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfd9001: shouldn't a language based on Linda be anything _but_ platonic hth < 1551074615 435091 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds fishy < 1551074621 639416 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it? haha < 1551074641 308592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tdnh < 1551074651 422026 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think i'll literally use a Linda implementation as a backend < 1551074664 981449 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1551074682 664692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's fishy? < 1551074693 209659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whoa, bellingham < 1551074746 261884 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T >=> T < 1551074768 784651 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hahah DO you know me? < 1551074780 302902 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf knows all < 1551074790 623173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a fish? < 1551074797 317940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Haskell? < 1551074799 868234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fish < 1551074800 85141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confusil < 1551074801 41533 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. < 1551074807 231695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits fish < 1551074808 860226 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsweẗt < 1551074810 248927 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell programmers pronounce Klesli composition "fish" < 1551074811 458265 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1551074843 35190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kleisli < 1551074843 428385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ray says: enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies < 1551074850 527230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1551074851 374197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kleisli < 1551074851 765125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ray says: enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies < 1551074859 297210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget ray enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies < 1551074859 733674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1551074862 188708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kleisli < 1551074862 553466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk says: i'm MUCH happier with a comonad that lives in the kleisli category of some monad, or a monad that lives in the cokleisli category of a comonad, than I am with a distributive law that < 1551074862 737035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it can do is ensure that things are 'maximally terrible' in terms of how much work you do < 1551074881 749824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote >=> < 1551074882 111555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: Then you just compose them Uh-oh, Tekmo is going to >=> using Kleisli composition < 1551074957 782760 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: where'd you come up with Bellingham? stalking my ip/hn/reddits/github/whatever? < 1551074972 267007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, trying to figure out if I know you. < 1551074979 175016 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like this nick isn't totally transparent < 1551074995 339073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1551075002 288487 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name's right on my github < 1551075027 230237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1551075043 743376 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fun, your name should be [redacted] < 1551075066 71771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ted Redac < 1551075075 74896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I shouldn't say personally identifying things in a public channel anyway, sorry. < 1551075093 902480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redac, Ted in publication lists < 1551075094 747742 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not everyone's okay with that < 1551075106 440665 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly one that's publicly logged < 1551075435 569746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hikhq < 1551075438 774943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's [redacted]? < 1551075524 675810 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going pretty well, really < 1551076106 413686 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551077181 227929 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue-Mirr14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60078&oldid=59784 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1) 10spacing < 1551078296 435602 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551078578 397039 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551078802 112596 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551079194 590934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60079&oldid=59925 5* 03Cortex 5* (+16) 10 > 1551079358 18802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60080&oldid=59944 5* 03Cortex 5* (+43) 10 > 1551079780 210870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Thue-Mirr14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60081 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2036) 10Hello World, and termination < 1551081316 197257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551081441 939539 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551083770 865568 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1551086156 860073 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tswpkugllycadjzs JOIN :#esoteric < 1551087749 824643 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551092518 323891 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided rather than figuring out which characters I need to display next to a placeholder ◌ < 1551092537 392377 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will display all characters next to a ◌ < 1551092542 210340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: how do the cool kids render text nowadays twh < 1551092553 262569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they use signed distance fields < 1551092567 956405 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: charcoal on wood < 1551092610 217049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? char < 1551092611 556225 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char is a prominent component of charcoal. < 1551092729 371786 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/w0VTpPD < 1551092773 373016 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bdf edit program is almost perfect < 1551092880 526399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bdf = boring distance fields? < 1551093013 931407 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitmap Distribution Font or something < 1551093021 604357 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a font format < 1551093070 696748 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyph_Bitmap_Distribution_Format < 1551093337 567487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard bézier curves are where it's at, though < 1551093358 486301 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to do in a low-resolution bitmap < 1551093387 754320 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hard to display in a terminal < 1551093426 731706 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the "hi res" version above the main editing field is cheating using braille < 1551093457 741697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you displaying in a terminal? < 1551093631 171395 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/BjY2I < 1551093644 845049 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so I can edit my font in a terminal < 1551093714 534744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1551093867 918562 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so that it can be the only font by terminals, for terminals < 1551094011 846642 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: will it work on my receipt printer? < 1551094131 36971 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: might work < 1551094171 32341 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what format recipt printers take their fonts in < 1551094206 522282 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I tbq < 1551094207 496549 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1551094416 285168 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would think 16x9 would be a pixel size they would support < 1551094770 4063 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tswpkugllycadjzs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551096713 663846 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551096893 468982 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551096893 903879 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551100980 698386 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opqvrnreqmtcyoul JOIN :#esoteric > 1551104317 745161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60082&oldid=60015 5* 03A 5* (+296) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ > 1551104510 915283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60083&oldid=60082 5* 03A 5* (+80) 10/* The attempt will not work, unfortunately */ > 1551104559 444012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60084&oldid=60083 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* The attempt will not work, unfortunately */ < 1551106110 76181 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551106113 476092 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190223.html < 1551106114 254257 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190223.html: b_jonas < 1551107043 483865 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551107917 616914 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551108762 561042 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opqvrnreqmtcyoul QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551109028 281512 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551109606 466143 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551112307 538205 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551114219 962946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iacahjopjnyxneiu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551115198 918050 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1551115550 438659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551115550 521139 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1551115550 521217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551117900 915729 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1551118122 566664 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551119013 144466 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-necthraxpzglljqy JOIN :#esoteric < 1551119340 69255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( iff and only iff ) < 1551119602 51150 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point I shoudl refactor my font processing tools so they are more generic < 1551119638 567983 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, not hardcoding the size of the font at 9 by 16 < 1551119681 447169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551119784 867101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should probably allow other sizes < 1551119808 129815 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it support 16-bit characters or only 8-bit characters? < 1551119841 232130 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: currently processes everything as 32-bit encoding numbers < 1551119884 393018 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is an arbitrary limit at 0x20000 in my editor < 1551119942 501589 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit shoudl probaby be something else < 1551119956 757648 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the maximum unicode code point < 1551119975 913877 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10FFFF < 1551119980 257028 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551120037 805574 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BDF format doesn't actually specify what the encoding is though < 1551120051 174389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although you might want to use some coding other than Unicode. The .pcf format supports 16-bit characters, and the X font system also does (although maybe .bdf allows any number of characters; I don't know) < 1551120090 710314 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bdf uses a text format with decimal numbers for code points so theoretically it could be any number < 1551120109 674119 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: Yes, and that is why 0x10FFFF is perhaps too low (although in order to support Unicode, it should be at least that high) < 1551120139 903060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still you may limit it to 32-bit numbers, even if the file format allows higher numbers. < 1551121237 53985 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.6 < 1551121430 404719 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551121676 578652 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Client Quit < 1551121797 428337 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551122002 308940 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iacahjopjnyxneiu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551122505 585189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a idea if in some roguelike game that you can fly, but, while flying, you cannot go through doors (even if open), pick up objects, make melee attacks against opponents on the ground, and maybe also you cannot cast some spells, but you can go faster and go over water and statues (but not walls), and it takes time to go up or to land. < 1551123037 782571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551123247 450498 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1551123452 187430 :aloril__!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6ae3-54.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551124003 357995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, in particular in a font you could assign a higher number to a glyphs that isn't the default glyph for any character, but is either a variant for a character, or a ligature. but practically, you probably can't encode those to a BDF/PCF font in a way that terminals will use it, so that only comes up in OTF and other fonts. < 1551124201 100890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. Mozart's ''Die Entführung aus dem Serail'' opera is very popular. "Pedrillo" is the name of a good guy in it. How come then that that name is virtually unused for anything else? Character names in popular fiction works usually get picked up and used as named for real people. < 1551124235 804425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not the only such name from Mozart's operas, but the one where it seems the most strange.) < 1551125566 757492 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551125593 941677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, another question. Is there a theatre play with no scenes, played entirely with the curtains closed? < 1551126639 127561 :bbb_!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551126640 350091 :bbb_!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hello < 1551126644 286102 :bbb_!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says hello < 1551126657 546114 :bbb_!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duolingo.com < 1551126675 738535 :bbb_!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :Guest16203 < 1551126685 517142 :Guest16203!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1551126687 989166 :Guest16203!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!?!?!?!?!? < 1551126697 258296 :Guest16203!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :ijkajskajkjkjkj < 1551126709 233563 :ijkajskajkjkjkj!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :Vala < 1551126721 83487 :Vala!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :vala_iksan < 1551126748 211474 :vala_iksan!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitti iksan! < 1551126797 520654 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Is that like the theatre equivalent of 4'33"? < 1551126830 550051 :vala_iksan!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "i am an idiot" < 1551126834 105849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, I don't think so < 1551126834 795057 :vala_iksan!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a fictional language < 1551126847 588052 :vala_iksan!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :me < 1551126850 175872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it doesn't have to be silent or lacking visuals. actors can come in front of the curtain, lit, < 1551126871 173864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actors can speak audibly in front of the curtain, or even behind the curtain, although the latter can be harder < 1551126876 692605 :me!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :Guest10559 < 1551126879 482930 :Guest10559!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :hello < 1551126885 340056 :hello!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :jhjchfseucfnher < 1551126890 87083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see, I interpreted "scenes" more broadly. < 1551126892 92458 :jhjchfseucfnher!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :iiiiiikkiiiiiii < 1551126896 619313 :iiiiiikkiiiiiii!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok done now what < 1551126902 91571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that all of it is done as if it were an introduction or transmission between scenes < 1551126931 424419 :iiiiiikkiiiiiii!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a default, general channel on this < 1551126950 509341 :iiiiiikkiiiiiii!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like not from a website or anything < 1551126960 627685 :iiiiiikkiiiiiii!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :iqi < 1551126973 151923 :iqi!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1551126981 699373 :iqi!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :q2 < 1551126984 979790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a possible equivalent of 4'33" would be a play or opera with no _acts_, where the audience doesn't even enter the theater hall, they only have conversations with other people on the corridors of the theater < 1551126994 48745 :q2!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1551127069 42896 :q2!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1551127098 654361 :q2!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 NICK :a35 < 1551127113 752005 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsqtguclyefkvqqe JOIN :#esoteric < 1551127126 207491 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rytsas! < 1551127134 687840 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been using duolingo lately < 1551127156 618583 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this idea < 1551127173 752889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling that the no act one has been done already < 1551127185 232636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry < 1551127189 495725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the no act one probably hasn't been done < 1551127195 456784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :charge for tickets, people come in wearing their fancy theater clothes, buy drinks, take their seats, lights go down, lights go right back up, intermission, repeat < 1551127198 32079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the no scene one probably has been done < 1551127200 313204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly several times < 1551127207 412021 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a good racket < 1551127221 405153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely theater plays with only one actor, I've even seen one < 1551127245 685223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's at least one opera with only two solo singers incidentally < 1551127341 505180 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxcxKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK < 1551127349 70623 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :outputs idk newlines < 1551127365 908872 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anybody is actually using esolangs.org here < 1551127590 157693 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your ↄ program fails to execute, what language is it? < 1551127670 220577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a35: we don't use that site, except for the channel logs. we pretty much keep it as a trashcan so that the people who want to write down their really bad ideas have some place to put it, rather than vandalizing wikipedia or some other important site. < 1551127724 489740 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep it in microsoft word < 1551127729 996997 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :them < 1551127738 346991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I think a few people use the bfjoust hill there < 1551127788 94372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ais declared that the hill is now pretty much optimized < 1551127792 296376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe not that either < 1551127833 644725 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, do you hear that < 1551127838 890946 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4'33" < 1551128025 361361 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551128115 333662 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[] < 1551128151 30473 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im gonna play nethack im getting bored < 1551128156 532054 :a35!cfb5d56d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.181.213.109 QUIT : < 1551128953 224527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's use abstractions < 1551128961 514273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make everything overly general < 1551129359 34865 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I need is a program that I can pipe things through that will put a timestamp on each line < 1551129380 615639 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551129387 529960 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreutils has that < 1551129389 963057 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called ts, iirc < 1551129393 151900 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a standard unix program that can do this or < 1551129399 897973 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool < 1551129423 18602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: perl -pe '$_=time()."\t".$_' < 1551129539 382414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets a bit uglier if you want to use fractions of a second or a specific date format though < 1551129557 182517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a great deal uglier < 1551132467 698254 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551132610 136551 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551132617 64287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551132635 66584 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1551132640 953934 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551133248 760652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice < 1551133267 142612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :temperature is predicted to be above zero for the next four days now. < 1551133284 771311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a little wind, but not too bad < 1551133973 935601 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551134884 143248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551135250 518499 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1551135263 482798 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551135268 33861 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1551136718 348688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-5.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1551136956 501922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Plugnburn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60085&oldid=36923 5* 03Plugnburn 5* (+113) 10Added EcmaByter reference > 1551137057 447486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytePusher14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60086&oldid=58086 5* 03Plugnburn 5* (+157) 10/* Machines */ added EcmaByter < 1551138068 851345 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551138439 644870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it was the warmest February day in the UK since ever. < 1551138467 354401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four of the met office measurement stations recorded >= 20°C. < 1551138508 221206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC has some nice "a year ago vs. today" picture pairs at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47360952 < 1551138827 278370 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551140054 466343 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551140127 235058 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551140127 361730 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551140502 411246 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551141728 258680 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551142520 415376 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551142556 763673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551142570 428900 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551142646 764926 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551143683 672633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60087&oldid=59990 5* 03Cortex 5* (+108) 10 < 1551144548 407065 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551145044 944118 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551145292 961478 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551146802 916612 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ts supports custom formats and output to microseconds < 1551147245 260392 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551147272 795639 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551147285 427158 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551147369 660566 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551147800 953189 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551148009 341052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should coroutines work if you wanted them to be really efficient? < 1551148017 703711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about it and the details are actually tricky. < 1551148023 345116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether anyone's done it properly. < 1551148096 50145 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsqtguclyefkvqqe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551148766 20382 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, in some cooperative RTOSes, you are only allowed to yield in main() < 1551148774 243552 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or some rule morally equivalent to that) < 1551148798 592684 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a tight bound on the per-coroutine stack size < 1551148813 378865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, can you elaborate? < 1551148926 310682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are a bunch of different use cases, but let's say we're talking about asynchronous I/O. < 1551148957 296303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to write a complicated thing that does asynchronous I/O, you can write a state machine by hand. < 1551148975 318043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can make small cooperative threads with full stacks of their own. < 1551148992 705469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is nice but kind of wasteful with respect to memory use and unnecessary cache misses and so on. < 1551149033 731194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have compiler support, you can maybe have it generate something like the state machine for you, and do liveness analysis and everything and make it nice. < 1551149040 772193 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551149043 702967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm wondering about the details of how it should work. < 1551149058 737121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when you have asynchronous things that call other asynchronous things and so on. < 1551149222 638058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coroutine state machine state is effectively a second stack, used only for async state < 1551149241 350941 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551149269 198012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is good because the stack is smaller and you only use it for things that really need to be saved (your regular stack is in cache so you don't want to switch stacks completely). < 1551149288 453463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question then is could you sensibly tell the compiler which things don't need to be saved < 1551149301 980285 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be a nightmare < 1551149337 761169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be able to figure it out? < 1551149362 220578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you tag your async functions then only their variables that are saved across yield calls need be saved. < 1551149649 962497 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551149841 975783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551149912 942966 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551150634 127329 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1551153972 42720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue-Mirr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60088&oldid=60078 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+236) 10I made an interpreter to test my "Stretching-the-Truth"-machine < 1551154079 620586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Man, this is trickier than I thought. < 1551154087 680148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have good ideas twh < 1551154229 502881 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1551154237 431800 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do good ideas < 1551154241 131319 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only bad ones < 1551154247 760727 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad advice for a price < 1551154306 639956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the price < 1551154389 213028 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :varies according to circumstance < 1551154431 73208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now < 1551154506 346112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it cake < 1551154529 838822 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1551155921 282327 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551156167 278154 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551157176 450434 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afblmliagqaxkntx JOIN :#esoteric < 1551158645 270171 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any cake > 1551161615 997244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Salpynx 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Pentagraph.png10]]" > 1551162263 634241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Thue-Mirr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60090&oldid=60081 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+869) 10Pentagraph program, graphing Thue-Mirr "chaos" < 1551162405 408591 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551162665 401267 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551162813 443423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551162841 768811 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551162855 415895 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551162956 758988 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551163935 283274 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551164815 777010 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551164957 99499 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afblmliagqaxkntx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551165185 675443 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551166229 940413 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551166929 796478 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551167348 754920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1551167820 577144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:BytePusher14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60091&oldid=52813 5* 03Plugnburn 5* (+171) 10/* (Virtual) Machines */ < 1551169057 715064 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551169105 392423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551169337 581147 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551169353 182264 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551173126 868395 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551173126 948920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551173246 198140 :trnv2!~trn@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1551173289 124986 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551173405 186644 :17WABYY79!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551173405 283539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551173405 334955 :17WABYY79!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551173405 610271 :trn!~trn@prone.ws QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551173460 900441 :trnv2!~trn@prone.ws NICK :trn < 1551173603 497669 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1551174397 380760 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551183179 556552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Edible Melon 5* 10New user account < 1551183237 422822 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551183401 439959 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551183406 554325 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551183925 732531 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184061 118398 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184224 30602 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551184224 718648 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pwmpzsduiwxwlngb QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551184229 409097 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551184229 581385 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551184229 685846 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551184230 167274 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551184231 93434 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1551184233 367585 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ptrfksmsipywjqyw JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184234 732569 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184247 961908 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reference, see https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-12.html#lYfc the previous discussion on how to implement coroutines < 1551184317 796287 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184346 683846 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184412 471993 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551184703 447803 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrvmgdbjurcaxotg JOIN :#esoteric < 1551185221 453524 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551185250 707784 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551186604 662032 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fvngaeosiejumqpp JOIN :#esoteric < 1551187620 57807 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 257 seconds < 1551188089 365762 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: in lieu of the innuendo in the end know my intent though < 1551188139 179135 :grumble!~~@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1551191700 407073 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551191777 256697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551192005 792070 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1551192114 12805 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551193052 75154 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551193603 421710 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551193660 480180 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1551193787 401759 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1551199787 930374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OdinSmodin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60092 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+26) 10Created page with "I lost this account. Heck." < 1551199788 46667 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fvngaeosiejumqpp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551203655 72300 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-givdacpceynyqwpd JOIN :#esoteric < 1551206022 413631 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551206022 497080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1551206022 497140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551206431 138642 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551206463 298496 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551207837 47370 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1551208771 521713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551209695 860479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow! < 1551209732 486576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just payed online with debit card through an online payment website that has a fallback to allow paying without javascript. I think this is a first. < 1551210279 780568 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551211471 993851 :59NAAJ5ZK!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551212360 816536 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551212415 184148 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1551212886 234658 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1551212901 306163 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551212985 154768 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone recommend me a new rubik's cube < 1551213195 101069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( get a megaminx ) < 1551213397 35285 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'm thinking something with an obvious isomorphism to the original < 1551213499 204160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, one can buy 17x17x17 cubes now? Crazy... < 1551213527 790449 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only EUR 1.3k) < 1551213581 913628 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I know too little. Stickerless is nice but that doesn't really narrow it down much. < 1551213686 687573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isomorphic, eh... there's the mirror cube variant (which I imagine would be really awkward to handle) < 1551213759 594362 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently that doesn't stop people from offering speed cubing variants of those... "Shengshou Mirror Speed Cube" < 1551213795 135514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/512Tno1siWL._AC_US218_.jpg ... I guess that's the standard checkerboard pattern < 1551213933 910807 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: basically I'm looking for a 3x3x3 cube that isn't a really stiff one I bought in a toy store whose stickers are coming off < 1551214983 398576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ask #rubik on this irc network, they can give good advice about that < 1551215065 74601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I bought two decent cubes last year, the one I prefer is "Quyi TheValk 3" < 1551215090 298339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that "3" is the version number, not size > 1551215098 456811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60093&oldid=60079 5* 03Cortex 5* (+323) 10 > 1551216573 896436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YesNoMaybeUnknown14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60094 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1365) 10Created page with "'''YesNoMaybeUnknown''' is an esolang created by [[User:Cortex|]] using quaternary digits (or quits). These 4 values are represented as: * ? (unknown) * 0 (no) * (maybe) *..." > 1551216600 652468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60095&oldid=60093 5* 03Cortex 5* (+24) 10 < 1551217142 442971 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i have a mirror cube! < 1551217146 825993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or had; I haven't seen it in a while) < 1551217162 439390 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is definitely more difficult to handle < 1551217166 533973 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks way cool < 1551217200 824272 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first encountered one while drunk at a New Year's party and it became an object of obsession for a little while < 1551217342 126871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I first encountered one at your house. < 1551217674 173599 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother's girlfriend got me a cube whose faces change colour depending on the light < 1551219370 758500 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's neat < 1551220082 94985 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrvmgdbjurcaxotg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551221050 135582 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551221866 335489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551222711 59037 :59NAAJ5ZK!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551223299 170613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-160.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551225083 243531 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551225331 218896 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551226445 434432 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551226528 50931 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551226549 864282 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551226618 901507 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1551226621 361803 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551231848 266982 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1551233425 703744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60096&oldid=57713 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+54) 10; > 1551233635 207266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60097&oldid=60096 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+88) 10C example for REPL > 1551240613 202289 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03N9netyn9ne 5* 10New user account < 1551240708 119519 :lllllllllwith10l!6b4dc520@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.197.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551240726 633335 :lllllllllwith10l!6b4dc520@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.197.32 QUIT :Client Quit < 1551241188 120182 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-givdacpceynyqwpd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551243889 767270 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any copies of the old esoteric Minecraft world exist? < 1551243912 243431 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551244168 219821 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551247944 243719 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1551250403 495888 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551250475 973422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551250688 484112 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551252530 646251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551253585 763803 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551255302 278260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So the nice thing about C lvalues is that you can syntactically see whether something is being copied. < 1551255311 162472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the thing I don't like about ALGOL 68 style coercions, I guess. < 1551257574 696246 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551257670 760471 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:71bc:5b45:e82c:2668 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551258138 95079 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:71bc:5b45:e82c:2668 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1551258157 365589 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551260873 60816 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551265825 644060 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (In the future, "crispy" will be a slur against genetically modified people, because of CRISPR) < 1551266036 917548 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :get crispy in here < 1551267041 140976 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551267236 757966 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1551269730 847172 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551269771 719036 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551269860 429800 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551269860 520088 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551269879 164618 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1551277452 720716 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msghinyvkfiioioo JOIN :#esoteric < 1551277637 891093 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551278216 389905 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551282046 638479 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551283807 443582 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tghurvpnmzzuemmm JOIN :#esoteric < 1551284093 241515 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551284362 216959 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551284784 315361 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551288280 508983 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't you love the options Notepad gives for character encoding https://i.imgur.com/rSB1x24.png < 1551288311 169850 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I guess the two "Unicode" options are UTF-16? < 1551288474 909425 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS-2 probably < 1551288503 475905 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :“fuck the astral planes” < 1551288656 255027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find out < 1551288708 191427 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creates a notepad document with one character, the poo emoji < 1551288743 663550 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ANSI" -> 3f 3f (literal "??") < 1551288754 312830 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unicode" -> ff fe 3d d8 a9 dc (BOM + UTF-16LE) < 1551288796 275910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unicode big endian" -> fe ff d8 3d dc a9 (BOM + UTF-16BE) < 1551288853 468796 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UTF-8" -> ef bb bf f0 9f 92 a9 (what the fuck, it has a BOM even in UTF-8) < 1551288854 803961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smdh < 1551288861 512180 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :windooooooows < 1551288913 703834 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :msft loves their utf8 boms < 1551288950 508959 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a D&D game, where a character has control of the astral plane, meaning they get powers related to each non-BMP character < 1551288955 101766 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be pretty powerful < 1551288971 685955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a bunch of hieroglyphs for egyptian gods and stuff < 1551289031 80853 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my airspy hf+ :( < 1551289035 836015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel, but whatever < 1551289838 832076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: it's on the slow boat from china < 1551289873 342135 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shipped 2.5 weeks ago) < 1551289878 539780 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually I think it has entered the US by this point < 1551289894 435055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the hands of USPS, so I may get it in another few days < 1551289930 250527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why "ANSI" gives ?? and not ?. my guess is it's because Windows works on UCS-2 internally, and the fallback-conversion routine isn't aware of surrogate pairs < 1551290405 519444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551292120 412137 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551293511 479397 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551293961 709540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can't quite blame microsoft for being utf-16 since they were early to the unicode thing < 1551293975 334103 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1551293986 291995 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tghurvpnmzzuemmm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551294023 844821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make fun of notepad anyway though < 1551294363 661092 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551294736 805810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Lenguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60098&oldid=53850 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1925) 10/* Practical problems trying to use Lenguage */ new section > 1551294763 387280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Lenguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60099&oldid=60098 5* 03Ais523 5* (+65) 10/* Practical problems trying to use Lenguage */ finish unfinished sentence < 1551295761 833574 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551296461 216501 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551296727 70426 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551297395 26379 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1551298319 417013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-64.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551298432 238457 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.3.137.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551300226 458794 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zehunlpzdgofknwo JOIN :#esoteric > 1551300247 231717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60100&oldid=60095 5* 03Cortex 5* (+0) 10/* Quine */ < 1551302431 640350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think at this point making fun of notepad is missing the point, you know what you're getting < 1551302976 827089 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551303244 760101 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551305692 929911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "BOM in UTF-8" thing is I think what it (or some other Windowsy thing) uses as a magic number for UTF-8 text files, and it's sort of semi-sanctioned by Unicode. < 1551305695 934837 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use of a BOM is neither required nor recommended for UTF-8, but may be encountered in contexts where -- the BOM is used as a UTF-8 signature." < 1551305796 677618 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is too good < 1551305817 483609 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem is (and this isn't UTF-8's fault) that so many of the single byte codes are taken by seldom used ASCII control characters :( < 1551306446 607819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is code page 437 < 1551307147 440769 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551308232 50620 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 259 seconds < 1551310536 52206 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551310741 602403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-64.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551310849 480093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551310887 453814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Arcorann 5* 10New user account < 1551312729 273054 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551312985 220081 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551313000 385350 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551313146 714342 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1551313149 100022 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551315520 121139 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551317001 56946 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zehunlpzdgofknwo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551318038 91015 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551318111 298305 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551318219 146994 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, the (old) standard on WIndows was to use a BOM to indicate a text file is UTF-8, rather than the "ANSI" codepage. < 1551318261 576232 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "old" because up-to-date Windows 10 now default saves text files as UTF-8 without BOM. < 1551318404 404685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32 is even getting UTF-8 functions! < 1551318850 720507 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1551319212 789823 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, really? < 1551319231 476081 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they're adding support for UTF-8 *as* the "ANSI" codepage, but < 1551319239 316669 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551319258 246694 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strictly speaking, add*ed* -- it's marked as beta, but you can just toggle it on on a Windows install now, and things just work) < 1551319508 300062 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1551319777 998832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:12Me2114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60101&oldid=47356 5* 0312Me21 5* (-246) 10 > 1551319795 819513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:12Me2114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60102&oldid=60101 5* 0312Me21 5* (-30) 10 < 1551319905 702248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551321146 875666 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1551321366 258696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60103&oldid=60030 5* 03Cortex 5* (+52) 10 < 1551325737 521909 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551325994 385752 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551326639 180857 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msghinyvkfiioioo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551327522 397978 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551327552 972226 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551327565 839928 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551327647 566113 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551329696 152130 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551329952 70417 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1551330084 553190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60104&oldid=60045 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+207) 10/* Introductions */ > 1551330401 92806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07K-on Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60105&oldid=53897 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+0) 10 < 1551331984 118390 :importnetminecra!49cb6dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.203.109.234 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551332027 818539 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551332699 583824 :importnetminecra!49cb6dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.203.109.234 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1551333311 283195 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.213.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551334952 923212 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean *U functions to go with *A and *W < 1551334958 128465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I heard, anyway < 1551334962 488830 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, holy damn < 1551335134 579017 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes my occasional plans for world domination, I mean, a saner Windows libc, a lot easier. < 1551335481 951714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I heard about it not long ago but now I can't find any reference to it < 1551335484 922008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who knows? < 1551335539 634374 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, my plans for world domination were to start by forcibly creating them as a wrapper for *W, so maybe that's what you're remembering? < 1551335542 639106 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDK < 1551335574 895042 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a project which I've not done mostly because I more want it to exist than I want to be the person who makes it exist) < 1551335600 62990 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot of work and I'm preoccupied just living thanks < 1551335634 34157 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :living is p. complicated < 1551335654 354474 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More so than many people would think. < 1551335675 845540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was people taking about some official Microsoft thing < 1551335704 675722 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, I only really know ex-MS devs. < 1551335714 600974 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I'd ask. < 1551336166 862448 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551336403 954366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't find any reference to it so who knows < 1551336420 749337 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551336490 162686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for halloween i'm going to be UNICODE BIG ENDIAN < 1551336503 685644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe utf-8 with a bom < 1551336504 544313 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1551338483 548217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode BIG ENDIAN < 1551338485 372091 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551338500 586715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode BIG ENDIAN < 1551338501 535300 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551338505 32231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1551338518 373731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come unicode has just EGG rather than a big endian and little endian egg < 1551338563 675980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode EGG < 1551338564 697036 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E \ UTF-8: 45 UTF-16BE: 0045 Decimal: E \ E (e) \ Lowercase: U+0065 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G \ UTF-8: 47 UTF-16BE: 0047 Decimal: G \ G (g) \ Lowercase: U+0067 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G \ UTF-8: 47 UTF-16BE: 0047 Decimal: G \ G (g) \ Lowercase: U+0067 \ Category: Lu (Letter < 1551338570 199168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1551338580 91825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode EGG < 1551338581 56018 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E \ UTF-8: 45 UTF-16BE: 0045 Decimal: E \ E (e) \ Lowercase: U+0065 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G \ UTF-8: 47 UTF-16BE: 0047 Decimal: G \ G (g) \ Lowercase: U+0067 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G \ UTF-8: 47 UTF-16BE: 0047 Decimal: G \ G (g) \ Lowercase: U+0067 \ Category: Lu (Letter < 1551338588 235365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this is not helping < 1551338680 174669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/*code* < 1551338681 139539 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/icode \ bin/morse-decode \ bin/multicode \ bin/singlecode \ bin/unicode \ bin/unidecode < 1551338689 800515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`singlecode EGG < 1551338690 935733 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E] [U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G] [U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G] < 1551338705 574609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1551338711 617852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode EGG < 1551338712 419610 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E] [U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G] [U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G] < 1551338725 773672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a design flaw here < 1551338747 453776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep EGG share/unic* < 1551338748 316872 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary file share/unic.txt matches < 1551338767 532366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url share/unic.txt < 1551338768 266627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i thought it was called < 1551338768 387459 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/share/unic.txt < 1551338781 588047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls share/unic* < 1551338782 441137 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :share/unic.txt < 1551338791 185088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls share/*data < 1551338792 87152 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access 'share/*data': No such file or directory < 1551338794 857471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag share/unic.txt < 1551338796 811693 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11025:2017-06-18 fetch share/unic.txt http://slbkbs.org/unic.txt < 1551338803 169601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1551338811 628885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls share/U* < 1551338812 537975 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :share/UnicodeData.txt < 1551338818 35349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1551338825 459324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep EGG share/Unic* < 1551338826 365299 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1C81;CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER LONG-LEGGED DE;Ll;0;L;;;;;N;;;0414;;0414 \ 1C85;CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER THREE-LEGGED TE;Ll;0;L;;;;;N;;;0422;;0422 \ 10467;SHAVIAN LETTER EGG;Lo;0;L;;;;;N;;;;; \ 1D183;MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO UP;So;0;L;;;;;N;;;;; \ 1D184;MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO DOWN;So;0;L;;;;;N;;;;; \ 1F95A;EGG;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; < 1551338838 508772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grep --text EGG share/unic.txt < 1551338839 126087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: unrecognized option '--text EGG share/unic.txt' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information. < 1551338840 314656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1551338842 819715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep --text EGG share/unic.txt < 1551338843 683874 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10467 SHAVIAN LETTER EGG [𐑧] \ 1D183 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO UP [𝆃] \ 1D184 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO DOWN [𝆄] < 1551338849 263354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that unic.txt is old < 1551338872 242094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's not the right file < 1551338890 541381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch share/unic.txt http://slbkbs.org/unic.txt.now < 1551338893 148473 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-02-28 07:28:12 URL:http://slbkbs.org/unic.txt.now [1437731/1437731] -> "share/unic.txt" [1] < 1551338894 789432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep --text EGG share/unic.txt < 1551338895 509240 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1C81 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER LONG-LEGGED DE [ᲁ] \ 1C85 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER THREE-LEGGED TE [ᲅ] \ 10467 SHAVIAN LETTER EGG [𐑧] \ 1D183 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO UP [𝆃] \ 1D184 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO DOWN [𝆄] \ 1F95A EGG [🥚] < 1551338899 157726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1551338906 334889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1551338924 126985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why have two different data files :( < 1551338952 825544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unic.txt is generated from UnicodeData.txt < 1551338973 494111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it follows the format of an old perl script written by larry wall < 1551338980 676343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably scrap it < 1551338993 299640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep --text EGG share/unic.txt | grep -v LEG < 1551338994 28201 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10467 SHAVIAN LETTER EGG [𐑧] \ 1D183 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO UP [𝆃] \ 1D184 MUSICAL SYMBOL ARPEGGIATO DOWN [𝆄] \ 1F95A EGG [🥚] < 1551339027 457984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1551339051 55458 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I search it in less or another program < 1551339059 349790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you don't need two EGG characters, as long as you have two KNIFE ones instead < 1551339109 130265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep --text KNIFE share/unic.txt < 1551339109 823766 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2E88 CJK RADICAL KNIFE ONE [⺈] \ 2E89 CJK RADICAL KNIFE TWO [⺉] \ 2F11 KANGXI RADICAL KNIFE [⼑] \ 1F374 FORK AND KNIFE [🍴] \ 1F37D FORK AND KNIFE WITH PLATE [🍽] \ 1F5E1 DAGGER KNIFE [🗡] < 1551339115 188329 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg is my new favorite ltter < 1551339209 152723 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :letter even < 1551339272 237177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's odd hth < 1551339281 984855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1551339290 473972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot read < 1551339306 388192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying that grep considers that file binary. < 1551340011 819941 :7YUAA4BLU!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551340522 268065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1551343442 876180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60106&oldid=58508 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+167) 10 < 1551344326 58777 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551345951 140412 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1551345969 724667 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551346222 725791 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551346786 272308 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551348731 673274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1551348733 396405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 280950Z 26003KT 160V290 CAVOK 10/00 Q1020 NOSIG < 1551349944 348250 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqwqrwzywjsnyrtv JOIN :#esoteric < 1551350904 116039 :Singingbanana_!5219e70d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.25.231.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551353690 269892 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1551353858 681362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60107&oldid=60084 5* 03A 5* (+246) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551353934 605037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60108&oldid=60107 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10/* Addition */ > 1551353951 331214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60109&oldid=60108 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* The attempt will not work, unfortunately */ > 1551354056 108797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60110&oldid=60109 5* 03A 5* (-165) 10Multiplication will not be neccesary. Implementing increment and zeroing is enough. > 1551354120 549710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60111&oldid=60110 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10Fix the unmatched bold tag > 1551354292 476890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60112&oldid=60111 5* 03A 5* (+181) 10Add section > 1551354317 867141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60113&oldid=60112 5* 03A 5* (-173) 10 < 1551354338 128586 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551354368 283072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60114&oldid=60113 5* 03A 5* (-386) 10Cited, so adding this is unneccesary > 1551354419 668415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60115&oldid=60114 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ < 1551354482 692993 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be really nice if the wiki had some sort of "preview" functionality to A could see if their edits were doing what they expected before saving the page, and allowing them to batch multiple edits into one go with the same sort of visual feedback > 1551354680 969763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60116&oldid=60115 5* 03A 5* (+343) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ > 1551355447 880862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60117&oldid=60116 5* 03A 5* (+152) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551355615 309450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60118&oldid=60117 5* 03A 5* (+162) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551355679 182461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60119&oldid=60118 5* 03A 5* (+47) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551355758 97998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60120&oldid=60119 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ < 1551356231 442430 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551356348 112907 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1551356348 383432 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1551357317 837233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60121&oldid=60120 5* 03A 5* (+104) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551357361 822066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60122&oldid=60121 5* 03A 5* (+83) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551357519 675574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60123&oldid=60122 5* 03A 5* (+47) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551357659 862866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03OttovonBismarck1871 5* 10New user account > 1551357849 454234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60124&oldid=60123 5* 03A 5* (+439) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551357860 959396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60125&oldid=60124 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551357915 889418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60126&oldid=60125 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551358021 103484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60127&oldid=60126 5* 03A 5* (-68) 10/* Zeroing */ > 1551358231 495442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60128&oldid=60127 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10 > 1551358281 795240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60129&oldid=60128 5* 03A 5* (-62) 10It actually can index the values in the middle. > 1551358386 787580 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60130&oldid=60129 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551358467 719409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60131&oldid=60130 5* 03A 5* (+74) 10Nope. I failed. > 1551358539 642995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60132&oldid=60131 5* 03A 5* (+101) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551358578 335401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60133&oldid=60132 5* 03A 5* (-9) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551358634 873989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60134&oldid=60133 5* 03A 5* (+51) 10Done. < 1551358678 884317 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gduetmklkfywrbpg JOIN :#esoteric > 1551359179 988595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60135&oldid=60134 5* 03A 5* (+31) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359225 571892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60136&oldid=60135 5* 03A 5* (+98) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359399 70012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60137&oldid=60136 5* 03A 5* (+79) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ > 1551359548 713396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60138&oldid=60137 5* 03A 5* (-173) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359571 32663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60139&oldid=60138 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359613 443837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60140&oldid=60139 5* 03A 5* (-24) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359687 295235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60141&oldid=60140 5* 03A 5* (+43) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359835 746314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60142&oldid=60141 5* 03A 5* (+133) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551359857 676494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60143&oldid=60142 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551362066 484836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60144&oldid=60143 5* 03A 5* (-33) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551362190 697850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60145&oldid=60144 5* 03A 5* (-30) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ < 1551363027 375010 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqwqrwzywjsnyrtv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1551363072 147650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60146&oldid=60145 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551363324 174735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60147&oldid=60146 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10Modify your continuation > 1551363616 343199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60148&oldid=59993 5* 03A 5* (+167) 10 > 1551363700 94164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60149&oldid=60148 5* 03A 5* (+50) 10 > 1551363835 69438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60150&oldid=60149 5* 03A 5* (+36) 10 > 1551363859 691168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60151&oldid=60150 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10 > 1551364481 75788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60152&oldid=60147 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Continuation of the above by User:A */ > 1551364606 826760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60153&oldid=60152 5* 03A 5* (+45) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:A */ > 1551364823 923123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60154&oldid=60153 5* 03A 5* (+35) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551364877 889886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60155&oldid=60154 5* 03A 5* (+46) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551365010 315671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60156&oldid=60155 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551365437 816772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60157&oldid=60156 5* 03A 5* (-20) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:A */ < 1551366127 121180 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551370740 827587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551370788 291918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1551373633 126852 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551373671 659184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Maskyy. 5* 10New user account > 1551373818 155055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60158&oldid=60104 5* 03Maskyy. 5* (+174) 10 < 1551374017 978360 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgnhfclqryycswjw JOIN :#esoteric > 1551376317 127223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Caeos14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60159 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2131) 10Created page with "Caeos, pronounced "Say oss", is an esoteric programming language that could produce anything at run time it was made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. This..." > 1551376420 398566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60160&oldid=60070 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+39) 10/* C */ > 1551376980 205640 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Caeos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60161&oldid=60159 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 < 1551377511 141323 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my font supports the whole shavian alphabet < 1551377609 284452 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I think it is simpler to use letters that already exist for a english spelling reform < 1551377841 864271 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bI YziG letRs Dat olredE ar on iGliS kEbords it is EzE to swiC to fNetik speliG < 1551377866 924727 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it makes it look like that spongebob meme < 1551377975 705953 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dat spunjbob mEm < 1551378064 771485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1551378069 712537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: help me unsee that? < 1551378070 80643 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: drscheme is a good book in my language. :p i could try. my experience with java has shaped my thoughts on the matter i'll do the next step < 1551378305 736394 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Du fYCR, spunjbob wil bE revErd as inventR of Du nY iGliS speliG sistM < 1551378888 724512 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551379264 222204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551379572 222020 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gduetmklkfywrbpg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551379880 587006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551380001 121570 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm or maybe s/nY/nU < 1551380112 767071 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependiG on dIalekt, "new" mIt bE prunWnst nU or nY < 1551380400 749356 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dis is Du mAn problem wiT iGliS speliG refOrm, Dat Der is nO standRd iGliS prunWnsEASN < 1551380562 770655 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EvN Du wRd refOrm, sum pEpL sAy as refOm and oDRs refOrm < 1551380658 891200 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not SR hW tU solv Dis < 1551380769 475891 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yOr nAm is stil fungot Du wA I sAy it < 1551380769 602047 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: ( you asked about it earlier. very funny. < 1551380816 377913 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sum pEpL mIt sAy funjot insted < 1551380953 567214 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wen I sAy abWt sum pEpL mIt hEr abUt < 1551381716 265772 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.213.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551382452 63566 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hA, mI erR rAt is betR nW! < 1551382467 526848 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hipip hurA < 1551382516 997893 :7YUAA4BLU!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551382872 453751 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ᶸ < 1551382873 649643 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1DB8 MODIFIER LETTER SMALL CAPITAL U \ UTF-8: e1 b6 b8 UTF-16BE: 1db8 Decimal: ᶸ \ ᶸ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 1D1C < 1551382906 177414 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ᵁ < 1551382907 298442 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D41 MODIFIER LETTER CAPITAL U \ UTF-8: e1 b5 81 UTF-16BE: 1d41 Decimal: ᵁ \ ᵁ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0055 < 1551382916 277344 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fak < 1551383143 280170 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ᵛ < 1551383144 228427 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D5B MODIFIER LETTER SMALL V \ UTF-8: e1 b5 9b UTF-16BE: 1d5b Decimal: ᵛ \ ᵛ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0076 < 1551383194 825015 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ᶜ < 1551383195 971904 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D9C MODIFIER LETTER SMALL C \ UTF-8: e1 b6 9c UTF-16BE: 1d9c Decimal: ᶜ \ ᶜ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0063 < 1551383266 302980 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ᶦᴵ < 1551383267 514301 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1DA6 MODIFIER LETTER SMALL CAPITAL I \ UTF-8: e1 b6 a6 UTF-16BE: 1da6 Decimal: ᶦ \ ᶦ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 026A \ \ U+1D35 MODIFIER LETTER CAPITAL I \ UTF-8: e1 b4 b5 UTF-16BE: 1d35 Decimal: ᴵ \ ᴵ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0049 < 1551383270 613743 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551383981 301097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nspirators < 1551383982 401141 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nspirators? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1551383989 685699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn nspirators is http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=517 < 1551384231 75269 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551384457 277334 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nncgokbifsumipky JOIN :#esoteric < 1551384523 63003 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1551387100 278811 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1551387366 968911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60162 5* 03Orby 5* (+2198) 10Created page with "Poolshark is a family of languages discovered by [[User:Orby]] during February of 2019. ==Introduction== The execution of a Poolshark program consists of a simulation of a po..." < 1551388550 839004 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551389866 821998 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551390136 791507 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551390392 527895 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551391009 239411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 495 < 1551391010 25574 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 495: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1551391756 806308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a good smlist. < 1551392152 455151 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1551392569 268084 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551393015 890549 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could they let bayerische motoren werke buy rolls royce? < 1551393031 111606 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a travesty > 1551393107 263480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EWagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60163&oldid=52236 5* 03Timtomtoaster 5* (-540) 10 > 1551393157 951911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EWagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60164&oldid=60163 5* 03Timtomtoaster 5* (+11) 10 > 1551393346 282977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Timtomtoaster14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60165&oldid=51996 5* 03Timtomtoaster 5* (-325) 10 < 1551393605 670199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: meh, those kinds of ownership changes happen all the time in the automotive industry < 1551393635 778041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: the first year when all the tiny Daewoos had the Chevrolet cross on their front, I was surprised too. I got used to it now. > 1551393818 796822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Orangeyy 5* 10New user account > 1551393869 788531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lenguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60166&oldid=60068 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+16) 10/* Reference implementation */ display double '' < 1551394043 581200 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nncgokbifsumipky QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551395925 135805 :Singingbanana_!5219e70d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.25.231.13 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551396060 140630 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551396341 126530 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551396360 718324 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551396385 361846 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all < 1551397546 878074 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting > 1551397631 69687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60167&oldid=60157 5* 03A 5* (+16) 10Declare that I wrote the zeroing operation. < 1551397702 247444 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rorexqikhediwnmt JOIN :#esoteric < 1551397882 112779 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric