< 1549067761 396540 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549068670 23478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549069264 402744 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iata nyc < 1549069265 332550 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Airports (NYC, ?) < 1549071122 772303 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1549072890 430351 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvsvssoaymzktftf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549073906 725209 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1549074632 705212 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549074706 866179 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549076219 461646 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549078911 775384 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1549086514 139669 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3DB0C00A0AF33F19F169A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549086846 343538 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549086969 661541 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549087447 226240 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549090735 226613 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549096922 554099 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549096931 225608 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1549099394 880509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59667 5* 03A 5* (+1332) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} [[golfuck]] is an extension of [[brainfuck]]. It is created in order to write short programs. In addition to brainfuck, golfuck adds a stack. =Commands added= 1549099879 355854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59668&oldid=59667 5* 03A 5* (+263) 10 > 1549099927 366941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59669&oldid=59668 5* 03A 5* (+26) 10 > 1549099973 87479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59670&oldid=59669 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Quine(Directly translated from Golfscript) */ < 1549100284 72472 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549100308 257705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549100379 448475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59671&oldid=59670 5* 03A 5* (+650) 10 > 1549100446 190746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59672&oldid=59671 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* Implementation in C++ */ > 1549100692 562041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59673&oldid=59672 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549100734 348592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59674&oldid=59673 5* 03A 5* (-8) 10/* Commands added */ > 1549100752 503657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59675&oldid=59674 5* 03A 5* (-38) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549100782 820649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59676&oldid=59675 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10/* Cat program(string version, hexdump) */ < 1549100888 462855 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549100947 391820 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1549101071 380975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59677&oldid=59676 5* 03A 5* (+72) 10 > 1549101196 32662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59678&oldid=59630 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10/* GolfScript */ > 1549101217 179605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59679&oldid=59678 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10whoops > 1549101306 467140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of quines14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59680&oldid=59592 5* 03A 5* (+26) 10/* Glass */ > 1549101412 543532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59681&oldid=59577 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10/* Goldfish */ > 1549101514 930742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59682&oldid=59677 5* 03A 5* (-862) 10Too lazy to write an interpreter > 1549101573 634252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59683&oldid=59666 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2805) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ my mistake on input matching, but open-node identity preserving is not that restrictive > 1549101578 270420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59684&oldid=59682 5* 03A 5* (+862) 10Undo revision 59682 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) < 1549101850 376315 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1549101908 397408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59685&oldid=59684 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10fix a problem < 1549102797 244730 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549103521 531208 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549104484 435505 :user24!~user24@p200300ECD3DB0C00A0AF33F19F169A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1549105013 942361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59686&oldid=59683 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+948) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ stating my argument for the Eodermdrome command superset calculation < 1549107674 390249 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549107836 559749 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549107840 310401 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549108170 402762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1549108171 236447 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :268) I use LiGNUXFCE+apps That's pronounced by saying "Linux" and then vomiting, btw. \ 48) both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? > 1549108557 671761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59687&oldid=59685 5* 03A 5* (+281) 10/* Partial implementation in C */ > 1549109054 612841 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59688&oldid=59687 5* 03A 5* (+70) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549109207 71168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59689&oldid=59688 5* 03A 5* (+113) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109234 389212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59690&oldid=59689 5* 03A 5* (-85) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109265 64160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59691&oldid=59690 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109781 385941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59692&oldid=59691 5* 03A 5* (-39) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ > 1549109881 934618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59693&oldid=59692 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* Commands added(still extending) */ < 1549109996 530258 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1549110042 504713 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59694&oldid=59693 5* 03A 5* (+226) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ < 1549110125 107925 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549110151 841641 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549110692 165355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59695&oldid=59694 5* 03A 5* (-25) 10/* Cat program(string version, hexdump) */ > 1549110712 970793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59696&oldid=59695 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Computational class */ < 1549110927 301996 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549111000 225556 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549111196 169646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1549113255 153336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a comedian the same as a median? > 1549114198 277358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59697&oldid=59696 5* 03A 5* (+193) 10/* Partial implementation in C++ */ > 1549114369 752737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59698&oldid=59697 5* 03A 5* (+46) 10Fix nested parenthases < 1549114645 455117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549114705 216767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1549114705 607454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1549114741 711315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar egbb < 1549114743 389993 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGBB 021320Z 35013KT 9999 FEW024 04/M02 Q1010 < 1549114846 310412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in object-oriented languages, it's often hard to know what's a method versus a function versus a builder < 1549114855 683771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a hoogle-alike would either have to check all possibilities or require the user to do so < 1549114864 853250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the problem is often working out what object to use, not what method to use) < 1549114898 527658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, in languages like C, there often aren't /enough/ types to narrow the results down, and very few higher-order functions anyway (which is where hoogle works best) < 1549114943 887146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: re esolang deployment, I'd say TIO is probably the leader in that at the moment < 1549115516 643894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 24184 25008 2720 < 1549115517 551208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1549115524 594366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does OEIS not find this? < 1549115541 768730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1549115577 686065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that seems likely. is TIO associated with freenode/#esoteric in some way? < 1549115638 735500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? TIO < 1549115639 861624 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549115651 310133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it has a chat room on chat.stackexchange.com < 1549115695 480409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1549115697 582830 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'tio': TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs < 1549115705 441499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 5 < 1549115711 910538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://oeis.org/A001511 The ruler function: 2^a(n) divides 2n. Or, a(n) = 2... < 1549115712 115317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2... < 1549115808 454116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perlbot used to have an oeis search primitive built in too, but it's bitrotten since < 1549116070 294586 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you accent “abacaba”? I seem to gravitate to the third syllable < 1549116161 403663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix((1:).(>>=(:[1]).succ)) < 1549116163 675634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2... < 1549116247 539138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :,aba'caba < 1549116381 44481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the pattern continues like this: ,aba'caba,aba"daba,aba'caba < 1549116421 583770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe the next step is a short pause... ,aba'caba,aba daba,aba'caba) < 1549116898 268366 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549116922 667539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there’s something wrong, no two adjacent letters should be the same < 1549117093 471101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 i.#:}:i.2^8 < 1549117094 211305 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 < 1549117094 250775 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 < 1549117094 250841 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 < 1549117094 250873 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 < 1549117094 250901 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 < 1549117094 319731 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 < 1549117094 359190 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 < 1549117095 275318 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 < 1549117095 431541 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ... < 1549117096 920770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1549117098 247968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1549117265 106652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah I realized that a minute later but didn't bother to fix it. < 1549117304 688120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 i.~"1|."1 #:}.i.2^8 < 1549117305 375165 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 6 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 7 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 4 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 6 ... < 1549117320 440569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ a.{~97+1 i.~"1|."1 #:}.i.2^8 < 1549117321 81745 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacaba < 1549117373 287049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(('a':).(>>=(:['a']).succ)) < 1549117375 576817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117382 439298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jabba] < 1549117418 141376 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I have a shorter nick so I get two extra characters for golfing ;-) < 1549117442 676220 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw in a (var) to remove the double quote :-) < 1549117443 404910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$('a':).(>>=(:['a']).succ) < 1549117445 597760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117453 338188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does var not work for infinite strings? < 1549117484 935581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to oerjan, `var` works for infinite strings whereas `text` does not. < 1549117503 53418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1549117509 438005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$('a':).(>>=(:"a").succ) < 1549117511 697048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549117512 38562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run var (cycle "long string ") < 1549117514 222195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : long string long string long string long string long string long string long... < 1549117532 799892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it turns out that lambdabot gives a much longer result in private message < 1549117571 111578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you only have yourself to blame if it spams you privately... < 1549117583 708566 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549117664 250119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ a.{~97+([:,0,"0>:)^:9]0 < 1549117664 986397 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549117737 957371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you want to golf, < 1549117739 116776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ u:97+,@(0,.>:)^:9]0 < 1549117739 817824 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549117767 22506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J doesn't handle infinite expressions, so this output is only 512 bytes long < 1549117772 390418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549117776 254472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean infinite lists < 1549118073 287563 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1549118090 786470 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we should invent an esolang with infinite expressions < 1549118110 503118 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as if it wasn’t invented yet… I bet it was) < 1549118142 652680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :many programming languages already have an interactive repl, which can evaluate partial programs up to the first top-level semicolon or similar < 1549118155 51345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some esolangs have such a thing too < 1549118166 769702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( hm, could I golf abacaba in C# in a reasonable amount of code ) < 1549118246 126940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even among esolangs that aren't brainfuck-alikes < 1549119251 31286 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 'a' < 1549119253 411103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 97 < 1549119609 760324 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 'j' < 1549119612 352289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 106 < 1549119647 681030 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’m not a golfer at all, so the result is this long: < 1549119650 909922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :class A{static void Main(){B(106);}static void B(int c){if(c>96){B(c-1);System.Console.Write((char)c);B(c-1);}}} < 1549119674 861115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "class A{static void Main(){B(106);}static void B(int c){if(c>96){B(c-1);System.Console.Write((char)c);B(c-1);}}}" < 1549119676 890548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 112 < 1549119732 516299 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry, TIO shows the length in plain sight < 1549119997 533837 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks nice < 1549120032 714607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would that be shorter in J than the one I showed above? let me see < 1549120208 802577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (],,)/a.{~105-i.9 < 1549120209 487874 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120220 983863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (],,)/u:105-i.9 < 1549120221 629689 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120225 688040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's shorter < 1549120235 798249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ u:97+,@(0,.>:)^:9]0 < 1549120236 497690 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabahabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaiabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabah... < 1549120290 29073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you're right, writing it that way is shorter if you don't have infinite lists < 1549120304 507103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1549120311 772225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite lists might not be the discriminator < 1549120335 836104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long a Haskell this would translate to. < 1549120351 796153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be some fold or another < 1549120521 73559 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..'j'] < 1549120523 173247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120526 989902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr(ap(++).(:))[]"jihgfedcba" < 1549120529 126934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120575 352240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..'j'] < 1549120577 421324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120588 603394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1549120672 844536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x++y:x)[]['a'..] -- probably too slow < 1549120679 109370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1549120687 503768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y->x++y:x < 1549120687 914241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (.) (++) (flip (:)) < 1549120691 856614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \y x->x++y:x < 1549120692 258351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (++) . (:) < 1549120712 704160 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "too slow" heh < 1549120730 993193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['a'..] < 1549120733 284626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114015 < 1549120746 250038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a finite list, just a pretty long one. < 1549120750 268012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr(ap(++).(:))[]"gfedcba" < 1549120752 608301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549120764 752848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1549120788 835001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the fold would be two to that power long, which is greater than 2**256 so it never terminates < 1549120809 771238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... theoretically I disagree :) < 1549120889 334674 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice it will run out of memory in a reasonable amount of time. < 1549120919 648195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm thinking about cryptography heuristics, like how attacks can use up to about 2**128 bits of memory and about 2**128 runtime and 2**256 total computation < 1549120930 274331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it will also print a few million characters because of laziness) < 1549120989 627982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah both these numbers seem to be reasonably safe upper bounds. :) < 1549121034 324063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we need reasonably safe because we want to add some luck, eg. we don't want to design cryptosystems for which the strongest attack works with exactly 1/2 probability < 1549121056 580474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want the crypto to be unbreakable even if Eve is somewhat lucky < 1549121066 366817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549121238 419421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we use 512-bit keys if we're certain that the trap function has no vulnerability but you can do a square root speed and fourth root memory attack, such as for digests where we don't want collisions even if the attacker can choose a plaintext, and 256 bit keys when the trap function has no vulnerability and we're certain that no such square root attack is feasable with only cube root memory, < 1549121272 595679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the heuristic gets harder for public key crypto because we can't use just trap functions to implement them < 1549121307 381539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I’m glad my long code helped you shorten the J one :) < 1549121321 566796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's not long. it fits in an irc line. < 1549121325 468362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :comfortably. < 1549121365 352522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still fit in an irc line if you translated it to java. < 1549121405 108626 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549121428 117232 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought it should be as small as possible < 1549121472 205401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even tried to write some cleverness like "using C = System.Console", but it proved to be longer < 1549121506 428037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that doesn't help if you only have one reference to System.Console in the code < 1549121513 980500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as small as possible/smaller than I think it’s really possible < 1549121553 140931 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: exactly < 1549121644 579332 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ASAP < 1549121646 465476 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASAP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549121740 522366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm maybe not millions... it was up to 24GB after printing 451 characters. < 1549121752 251495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ASAP, in code golf, means as small as possible < 1549121754 399251 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'asap': ASAP, in code golf, means as small as possible < 1549121780 87556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no good mental model for how this should grow over time. < 1549121983 465193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl(\x y->x.(y:).x)id['a'..][] < 1549121986 570414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549122476 595762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map(\x->chr$97+popCount(x.&.(-x)-1))[1..] < 1549122478 702587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549122486 203912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ how do you golf this one? < 1549122565 152313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the libraries that lambdabot import have a count trailing zeroes function somewhere, so that we don't have to write it in terms of popcount? < 1549122688 95717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount(x.&.(-x)-1))[1..] < 1549122688 477259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . subtract 1 . ap (.&.) negate) [1..] < 1549123047 614415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount(-1-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123047 958785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . negate . (-) 1 . negate . join (.|.)) [1..] < 1549123068 222418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1549123083 423538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x-> -1-x < 1549123083 792136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 6): < 1549123083 952667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549123083 952709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting lambda abstraction or expression < 1549123090 600136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl -1-x < 1549123091 52535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1549123091 92069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549123091 247177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1549123148 614784 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1-5) < 1549123150 765013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -6 < 1549123151 240998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1-5) < 1549123151 586778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1549123158 133364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a bug? < 1549123400 338777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map(\x->chr$97+popCount((-1)-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123402 524608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabafabacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabagabacabadaba... < 1549123404 990566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map(\x->chr$97+popCount((-1)-(-x.|.x)))[1..] < 1549123405 479590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (chr . (97 +) . popCount . (-) -1 . negate . join (.|.)) [1..] < 1549123407 986066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :workaround < 1549123432 210968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1549123455 671487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still doesn't quite look right < 1549123489 371999 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is < 1549123613 759336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (- 1-5) < 1549123616 40844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -6 < 1549123639 760678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, @pl being buggy is not exactly a new thing. < 1549123698 595262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (- 1-5) < 1549123699 1067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1549123720 977446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking clearly or I would not even have tried that. < 1549123728 786145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -(1-5) < 1549123731 60180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1549123836 532626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, with haskell you never know < 1549123864 669686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in ruby the spaces can matter in some expression involving unary negation < 1549123989 69119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, (f -2) is a method call (f(-2)), but (f-2) is a subtraction (f.-2) < 1549124042 599980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the simplest case < 1549124046 21608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby syntax is complicated < 1549124088 520971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also (f - 2) and (f- 2) are also subtraction < 1549124165 469098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the way, (-x) desugars to the method call (x.-@) < 1549124185 436722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl div 4 5 < 1549124185 866464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1549124198 225363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1`mod`2) < 1549124198 641853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 < 1549124205 997396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1`mod`2 < 1549124208 137268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1549124212 754751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1549124227 74989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1549124245 182196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with different numbers, for (-(1`mod`2)) and ((-1)`mod`2) are equal < 1549124252 230410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are not < 1549124261 110188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1)`mod`2 < 1549124263 409442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1549124272 913937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1)`rem`2 < 1549124275 271231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1549124280 1211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe that's one of the other mod operations < 1549124305 808086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like seven or so of them, even if you don't count the behavior for overflow or division by zero < 1549124314 552514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl -1==2 < 1549124314 845974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1549124314 885488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "-" < 1549124314 885566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1549124338 573004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1)==2 < 1549124338 895497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1549124375 718130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-1==2) < 1549124376 146160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate False < 1549124386 367434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1==2 < 1549124388 747966 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1549124390 806963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1==2) < 1549124393 84716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1549124395 339286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> negate False < 1549124397 571780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1549124397 571845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Num Bool) arising from a use of ‘negate’ < 1549124397 720557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In the expression: negate False < 1549124581 748920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, to parse unary - correctly one needs to be aware of the precedence level of nearby infix oerators... and @pl's parser is not. So things are broken, and it's not obvious how to do it correctly on top of http://hackage.haskell.org/package/parsec-3.1.13.0/docs/Text-ParserCombinators-Parsec-Expr.html. < 1549124594 527927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which the @pl parser is using) < 1549124608 168302 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably it should use haskell-src-exts instead. < 1549124695 399830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549124815 508651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- TODO, use Language.Haskell < 1549124863 711526 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549124880 155173 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549125032 574179 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1549125040 805549 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1549126492 171235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, strange. apparently Knuth uses the notation "sec" in chapter 7.1.3, and doesn't define it anywhere, not even in appendix B. he's using it in a context where it's possible to reverse engineer what he means, but still, it's strange. < 1549126580 568197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y z -> ((x z) (y z)) < 1549126581 17076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1549127267 254534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well that narrows it down to 69 pages. < 1549127317 412612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: vol 4A page 168 < 1549127406 806636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I see. So it is the standard trigonometric function. < 1549127420 672888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "standard" < 1549127636 777729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I think they are standard. Programming languages make a bad measuring stick for what constitutes a standard function in mathematics. < 1549128023 255760 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :first it’s a secant, and then there are haversines all over the place < 1549128337 942748 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1549128687 342251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hoversine < 1549128688 562327 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoversine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549128691 601403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hovercraft < 1549128692 668852 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner. < 1549128707 659045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? havercraft < 1549128708 744523 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :havercraft? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549128710 34410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? haversine < 1549128711 209388 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haversine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549128808 111350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I have to admit, Abramowitz & Stegun defines it on http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/Reference/AMS55.asp?Res=150&Page=72 , which is close to making it a standard notation < 1549128858 680909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's carried on to https://dlmf.nist.gov/4.14 ) < 1549128956 251613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there definitions for ver-hyperbolic functions? < 1549129350 477885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there any relation to were-creatures? < 1549130891 131532 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcdyqqhxorbzuwyn JOIN :#esoteric < 1549131734 131826 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549132924 350627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :versinh doesn't make much sense because sinh isn't bounded < 1549132966 128117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a vertan for the same reason < 1549133022 811578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's an extan, but sure < 1549133038 862205 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1549133042 683605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only an exsec < 1549133050 707998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549133125 807944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I usually just use sin, cos, tan, sinh, cosh, tanh for formulas, or exp(i*x). I don't know how the other stuff work. < 1549133287 463370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1549133298 403061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical of defining too many special-case names. < 1549133323 710217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it made sense back in the day when people had tables of all these functions. < 1549133324 391910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549134266 467156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you think sin or cos is more fundamental? < 1549134282 418467 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cos but i forgot why < 1549134287 970389 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff with fourier series comes out nicer? < 1549134661 624328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the main reason to use versine is because of rounding errors, if you happen to need (1 - cos x) and the resulting value is near 0 you can't calculate that from cos x, because values near 1 have far fewer significant figures < 1549134709 36631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modern computers can calculate it as 2((sin(x/2))²) without losing much accuracy, so having it as a separate primitive is less important < 1549134786 508316 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know the thing about RF mixing and trig identities and nonlinear devices and taylor series? < 1549134793 869716 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically describes how all modern radios work < 1549134813 699941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very < 1549134821 105239 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will tell you whether you like it or not! < 1549134833 740538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is some Cool Math < 1549134923 313447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a radio which can tune frequencies over a wide range < 1549134967 872578 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various engineering reasons, you often want to shift the signals of interest into a fixed frequency range < 1549135021 817314 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one is that it's easier to build circuits which perform well on a fixed range; another is that you might want to sample the signal digitally and it's easier when you reduce the frequency first) < 1549135074 366522 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do this you use a local oscillator to generate a frequency near the frequencies of interest < 1549135078 161939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason is that high-frequency circuitry is a pain to design and shield correctly, all sorts of weird things happen at high frequencies < 1549135097 941901 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then multiply that time-varying signal by the RF input to generate an "intermediate frequency" (IF) signal < 1549135100 630981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to reduce the input to intermediate frequency as quickly as possible < 1549135140 898448 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the RF signal has frequency w_0 and the LO has frequency w_1 then you get IF at w_0 - w_1, plus another at w_0 + w_1 which is ignored < 1549135160 389569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos(w_0 * t) * cos(w_1 * t) = (cos((w_0 + w_1) *t) + cos((w_0 - w_1)*t))/2 < 1549135164 491307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a trig identity < 1549135170 191257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not so much ignored as filtered out < 1549135186 214387 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1549135192 841220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sum frequency is so high that your IF circuitry likely can't transmit it at all, and even if it could you'd just stick a low-pass filter on it < 1549135208 395230 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're sampling then you always need to LPF an ADC input or else you get aliasing < 1549135211 397096 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1549135216 552843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :filtering out RF (the sum frequency) from IF (the difference frequency) is trivial < 1549135218 565222 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: with me so far? < 1549135305 928319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1549135365 164936 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next question is how to multiply two analog signals, and this seemed mysterious to me for a long time < 1549135379 166538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can actually use any nonlinear component < 1549135383 279725 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example a diode < 1549135406 879055 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a diode has an exponential current vs. voltage response < 1549135417 278104 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has an x^2 term in its taylor series < 1549135428 189417 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course (a + b)^2 = a^2 + b^2 + 2ab < 1549135449 748969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1549135553 560119 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the last thing is, by shifting the spectrum around w_1 down to be centered at 0, you now have both positive and negative frequencies in your IF signal < 1549135563 24276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course cos(x) = cos(-x) so those will alias < 1549135570 105122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is "quadrature sampling" < 1549135606 86350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mix the signal with cos(w_1 * t), and a separate copy with sin(w_1*t) (or cos(w_1*t + pi/2) if you prefer) < 1549135622 76369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is called I/Q sampling (in-phase vs. quadrature) < 1549135639 890250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those values are conveniently represented as complex numbers < 1549135664 76961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, while the RF signal is real-valued, the IF signal is complex-valued < 1549135688 462037 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can fourier transform complex-valued signal just fine < 1549135707 415351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's how a superheterodyne radio works, and the stuff about digital sampling describes how a software-defined radio works < 1549135719 120858 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was mostly talking in terms of receiving there but the same idea applies in reverse for transmission < 1549135858 119303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1549135915 132650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. fancy < 1549135915 551650 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1549135965 59247 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1549135966 621680 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you like < 1549136373 401212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: all that sounds like it both needs a lot of simple electronic components, and that it's probably impossible to actually implement from components that exist in the real world rather then theoretical idealized components < 1549136396 443623 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice we know that it's not so, because people have built radios and televisions when electronics was primitive < 1549136403 357490 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is how most modern radios work < 1549136405 399405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not impossible < 1549136411 924798 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are a ton of details in going from theory to practice < 1549136435 107254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: modern radios can use modern electronics, which have a lot of components in a single chip, so that's sort of different < 1549136447 427584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :old radios did not work this way < 1549136453 552051 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the superhet was invented in 1918 < 1549136463 974893 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, all you need for a mixer is a diode < 1549136470 148059 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all you need for filters is inductors and capacitors < 1549136496 280648 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all you need for an amplifier or a local oscillator is a few vacuum tubes and some other simpler components < 1549136507 7120 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course radios back then were not doing digital sampling < 1549136514 896758 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were doing analog demodulation of AM or FM < 1549136518 151694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's also not too hard < 1549136519 810664 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially AM < 1549136583 854948 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal radios seem to be god damn magic to people. < 1549136599 315527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build an AM radio with passives and a single diode < 1549136608 800282 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no external power besides the incoming signal < 1549136638 348646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's been old radios built from just vacuum tubes, with no semiconductor < 1549136638 843793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and solid state diodes existed long before the modern semiconductor era < 1549136685 853932 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a diode with a small wire contacting a lead sulfide crystal, or a graphite contact on a specially treated razor blade < 1549136700 524896 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up foxhole radios < 1549136702 433175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no external power? isn't that only possible with near field, which is limited to a few ten meters from an AM antenna? < 1549136716 167655 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are semiconductors, but not in the modern fabricated doped silicon sense < 1549136728 327788 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exhibit semiconducting physics but are made out of simple readily available materials < 1549136738 56923 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, any EM wave has power by definition < 1549136750 416272 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, you can pick up AM signals pretty far away provided you have a reasonable antenna. < 1549136767 239646 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a far field AM broadcast doesn't have much power but it has enough to power high-impedance earpiece < 1549136770 243772 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(faintly) < 1549136774 435995 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a crystal set kit as a kid < 1549136775 936060 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1549136799 286534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you clarify what "pretty far away" and "reasonable antenna" mean? < 1549136810 490188 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable antenna = few meters long wire < 1549136846 879024 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the placement matters < 1549136849 37261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the near field for AM radios extends to about a kilometer, so "few ten meters" was an underestimate < 1549136850 245944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably above any obstructions < 1549136850 748629 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :positioned at a reasonably high elevation or in the path of a broadcast, which usually means "be in the giant bubble of reception". < 1549136899 546471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM stations put out tens of thousands of watts < 1549136903 852122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's a problem for us hams < 1549136919 692841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they create interference on other nearby bands < 1549136933 808923 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it requires an extremely small amount of power to make audible noise in a headphone stuck into your ear < 1549136957 982604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a passive filter on my SDR which blocks AM broadcast band before it goes into the other circuitry (which could create intermodulation products) < 1549136961 304015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, but there aren't many such bands. I think there's only one AM radio station remaining that's broadcast from Hungary. < 1549136975 170928 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? there's AM radio all over the USA < 1549136979 895876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is here to stay probably, at 540 kHz, to serve stuff abroad < 1549136982 147297 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey j4cbo fancy seeing you here < 1549136987 913350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you thinking of longwave specifically? < 1549136989 983969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is *all over* Hungary and more < 1549136994 389547 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1549137006 816667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think so. I think it's called middle wave < 1549137010 547840 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :540 is the very bottom of the MW (normal broadcast AM) range < 1549137012 784571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :540 kHz frequency < 1549137014 915664 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, yes < 1549137027 171471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :longwave is older < 1549137036 464823 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd believe that hungary only has one station b/c it's a small country < 1549137044 620647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it used to have more < 1549137054 803349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two about a decade ago, and more before < 1549137090 453825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got rid of them because FM radio, digital television, satellite, and internet superceded it < 1549137152 294393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think terrestrial analog television broadcasts in Hungary used AM sound, and lived slightly longer than any but that one AM radio station < 1549137177 846140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not really sure, I think most of them actually used FM sound < 1549137181 387279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how that works < 1549137216 872881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be multiple television bands, and one of them used FM sound between the two FM radio frequency ranges, but I'm not sure if that was the most common analog television band < 1549137291 406602 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still hundreds of AM stations in the USA though < 1549137309 427329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 540 kHz radio broadcast is kept mostly because it serves neighboring countries where it may be difficult to buy FM radio bands < 1549137315 18400 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly sports, religious, and talk radio (predominantly right wing assholes) < 1549137332 768995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in what frequency range are those hundreds? < 1549137335 255194 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :also traffic alerts and the like < 1549137346 805956 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah there are low power local stations when you like approach a bridge or w/e < 1549137349 132445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: and at most how many are there receivable in any one location? < 1549137377 700062 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 540-1600 < 1549137388 391249 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: depends on location obviously, in a big city maybe 10 < 1549137393 710818 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle o' nowhere one or two < 1549137411 609094 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the music's on FM of course < 1549137424 157753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549137436 951272 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hungary uses DVB-T so audio and video are digital < 1549137440 350782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the internet says that there are more than one active AM radio stations in Hungary < 1549137441 208528 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the legacy analog TV was PAL < 1549137445 262714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the others are less powerful < 1549137474 625150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, they stopped the analog television broadcasts several days ago, to free up frequencies especially for digital television < 1549137504 681665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :analog radio is still used, but it's mostly on the western FM frequencies < 1549137527 66269 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://www.theradiosource.com/images/fas6000-icon2018.png < 1549137541 712842 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is failing me but I'm guessing PAL sound is FM on a subcarrier, like NTSC < 1549137546 763482 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :my car doesn't even have an AM radio < 1549137573 463908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's tricky, they modulate the mono sound and the stereo term differently < 1549137583 657471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the same is done for FM broadcast audio < 1549137585 979528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1549137593 56697 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you send the sum of the channels, and then the difference on a subcarrier < 1549137597 427129 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a mono receiver gets the sum < 1549137602 745274 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of AM/FM radios can also tune TV audio < 1549137603 893217 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1549137607 310361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's mentioned shortwave yet! < 1549137610 262079 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortwave isn't dead! < 1549137616 956906 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've received all kinds of fun stuff at my house < 1549137625 666810 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :including cuban numbers stations from the other side of the continent < 1549137632 919489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how long ago? < 1549137639 666247 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also public broadcast programs from asia < 1549137646 230881 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: pretty much every time i've tried in the past year < 1549137657 581561 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a cheap SDR setup? < 1549137659 411155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a cheap SDR setup < 1549137663 424400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :received is certainly true, I've received radio on short wave and long wave within my life < 1549137670 897138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using consumer radio equipment < 1549137690 135548 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am licensed to transmit 1,500 watts on the nearby ham HF frequencies < 1549137691 751133 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1549137701 359992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and analog television too < 1549137742 129769 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hams transmit TV sometimes, but you can only do full motion tV on the higher frequncy bands due to bandwidth limits < 1549137752 41725 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mostly "slow scan TV" which is really sending still images, slowly < 1549137823 789327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for single diode, there are anecdotes that there have been messed up metal amalgam tooth fillings or braces or something that accidentally worked as a near field AM radio if the wearer went close enough to the high powered 540 kHz radio tower near Solt, but I don't know if this is true < 1549137893 792877 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1549137894 928258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, and some hobby quadcopter people send analog television from a camera on their small flying machines to the ground < 1549137895 714549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it < 1549137905 192498 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah! FPV quadcopter < 1549137907 666477 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds super fun < 1549137913 142389 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usually on 2.4 or 5 GHz < 1549137916 718566 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :range is limited < 1549137982 361901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works because you can get pretty close to the Solt radio tower on a paved road < 1549138019 667286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a very high broadcast power, especially in the day < 1549138019 863494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have any shortwave bands radio but do have AM and FM. I sometimes listen to the CBC radio (including today), on 690 kHz AM radio. < 1549138021 842457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1549138032 700652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they decreased it some years ago, but it's still relatively high < 1549138043 678341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I see < 1549138091 224477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to listen to the 540 kHz Kossuth back long ago, but these days it has better FM broadcasts so it's no longer necessary unless you're receiving from outside Hungary < 1549138115 334721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also listen to it on internet, but that doesn't make the AM broadcast redundant) < 1549138181 258679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :poland for a long time operated a longwave station for the polish community abroad < 1549138224 521875 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the warsaw radio mast was the tallest structure in the world 1974 - 1991 < 1549138225 938542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, https://www.ahrt.hu/hu/100-mhz-es-kozephullam confirms that there are multiple AM broadcasts done by Antenna Hungária alone. AH doesn't handle all FM broadcasts, so there might be more, but there probably aren't. < 1549138227 429533 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it collapsed :( < 1549138248 985584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortwave can reach further than longwave, but not reliably as it's dependent on ionospheric conditions < 1549138263 674667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they also have digital radio broadcasts, but I've never seen a digital radio receiver that wasn't built into a television < 1549138282 599289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an 11 year sunspot cycle which affects that, and is currently at a minimum < 1549138291 919765 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right now long distance ham stuff is harder than it will be in a few years < 1549138297 43155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: my car receives digital radio < 1549138304 1515 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have multiple broadcasts per ferquency < 1549138308 902191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and muchbetter quality < 1549138312 315647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the digital radio broadcast is still sort of experimental < 1549138316 679376 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily hear when it switches from analog to digital < 1549138318 298288 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1549138341 622784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. if you wanna see something really weird, it is possible to build a diode and even a triode using FIRE http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/flame-amp/flameamp.htm < 1549138350 55544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's like a vacuum tube, without the vacuum or the tube < 1549138389 629493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FM radio is very well spread because these days they put it in many mobile phones < 1549138417 83665 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1549138417 793680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they can do because you need only a very small antenna and a small chip < 1549138422 517660 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :im' not sure how many people use that < 1549138429 623928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use it < 1549138429 747264 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they typically use the headphone cable as an antenna? < 1549138437 662826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually, but not exclusively < 1549138459 497356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still possible without a headphone, but most mobile phones don't support that < 1549138462 873090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so it seems < 1549138482 425964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works with any headphone cable, no need for any fancy addition in it < 1549138488 905609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so third party headphones work too < 1549138496 803444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wired ones obviously < 1549138500 840618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bluetooth ones < 1549138520 45532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1549138520 921862 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1549138527 158973 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need any different headphone cable though < 1549138527 909273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use it because I always carry a mobile phone anyway, so this lets me receive radio easily < 1549138537 561378 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a wire < 1549138546 202249 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a few wires wired together, but you can deal with that easily enough < 1549138552 91006 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never used it tho < 1549138556 676305 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should install the app < 1549138558 101054 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for emergencies < 1549138565 779939 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my portable ham radio could receive FM broadcast :( < 1549138573 979734 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old one did, but the new one is better in a lot of ways, but can't do that :( < 1549138591 975698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1549138596 497161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can receive weather radio tho < 1549138599 70022 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can also buy a separate tiny FM radio that doesn't include a mobile phone < 1549138604 351326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cheaper than a mobile phone < 1549138627 743302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't use much battery either < 1549138636 623273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used those before they put them in mobile phones < 1549138663 488178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want a portable radio that can receive AM too, not only FM. And preferably also other bands < 1549138676 89453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: AM is harder because it needs a larger antenna < 1549138689 665572 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah but i carry the ham radio every day and don't want to carry another radio < 1549138695 347675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wife's parents are here, bbl < 1549138706 705363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how tiny is your ham radio? < 1549138727 454833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a yaesu ft-60r < 1549138729 797085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, with the lower frequency it would, I suppose, but you can have a antenna that you can extend when needed and collapse when it is not in use. < 1549138730 288035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal walkie talkie size < 1549138755 116885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: right, and FM radios are significantly smaller than that, so you could attach the two and get a device that does both < 1549138841 813753 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they? < 1549138864 946071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure, but I think you need a wire coil over a decimeter in diameter with both ends connected to the radio to get an AM antenna: that fit easily in old portable radios, but you can't really fit them in a mobile phone < 1549138894 142916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, if you allow for the headphone wire as an antenna as with a mobile phone < 1549138902 534806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is fine; I don't have a mobile phone < 1549138913 487639 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: link? < 1549138934 666717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me try to find one on ebay < 1549138951 715177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to own one before ebay existed, but I can't link to that < 1549139075 182536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently these days they're built together with music players that play from either a micro-SD card or a soldered-on solid state memory, and they have a small battery charged by USB < 1549139133 615834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find one that includes a clear picture to show its size < 1549139151 510998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is a comedian the same as a median? <-- hm yes it would appear so < 1549139394 397482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.ebay.com/itm/121963260758 at least includes a picture clearly showing the USB A port connector on it < 1549139465 812897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is not ideal, because it probably has a rather short battery life, but ones with a non-rechargable button battery and a longer life used to exist < 1549139797 423590 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/173405038518 is battery-powered, is of size 0.09x0.04, and does AM middle wave too, which sort of proves me wrong about the large coil < 1549139803 352863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ < 1549139814 419577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable radio that receives AM < 1549139820 833655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1549139823 619327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses headphone, doesn't include speaker < 1549139856 544231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a bit larger if you include the size of a headphone and cable < 1549140317 669201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/170850268747 is a rather small FM one that can be powered from non-rechargable batteries < 1549140339 256114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how to find one with a small non-rechargable battery though < 1549140344 841077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I think those used to exist < 1549140550 996669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263754834261 is a smaller AM/FM one < 1549140557 594353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more expensive < 1549140708 917405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ebay.com/itm/183264250655 is an AM/FM one that's both small and cheap < 1549140801 202040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably exist one somewhere that doesn't include a built-in battery or battery holder but takes only external power, which is what you'd want for combining in an existing HAM radio, and it's possible that you can get one from one of the consumer ones sold on ebay by forcibly cutting off the battery compartment < 1549140827 459843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly by cutting off the battery compartment and attaching an antenna < 1549140852 275354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily the ones I linked above, there are more variations of these on ebay < 1549141598 937943 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.127.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1549141946 776181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some variant of rule of Scrabble. One is that the next letter to be drawn is exposed to both players (even if it is not your turn), but if you have to draw more than one letter still only one is exposed. < 1549142585 649609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm. IIRC that works differently from M:tG, because in M:tG if there's a static effect that reveals the top of a library, and its owner draws multiple cards from it, then each of them will be revealed on the library < 1549142822 319406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't come up often, because those static effects don't occurr on common cards, and there are very few uncommons that use it < 1549142871 252921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Goblin Spy < 1549142872 49540 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goblin Spy \ R \ Creature -- Goblin Rogue \ 1/1 \ Play with the top card of your library revealed. \ IN-U \ \ Goblin Spymaster \ 2R \ Creature -- Goblin Rogue \ 2/1 \ First strike \ At the beginning of each opponent's end step, that player creates a 1/1 red Goblin creature token with "Creatures you control attack each combat if able." \ C16-R < 1549142885 813173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Lantern of Insight < 1549142886 533673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lantern of Insight \ 1 \ Artifact \ Players play with the top card of their libraries revealed. \ {T}, Sacrifice Lantern of Insight: Target player shuffles their library. \ 5DN-U < 1549143070 600522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think there's any simple effect that makes just your opponent play with the top card of their library revealed < 1549143145 21849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549143327 541597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-246.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what an enchantment with just "Opponents play with their hand and the top card of their library revealed." would cost. It would probably cost something between U and 1UUU, but I don't know how much. < 1549144155 601827 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d96a:5981:90e:b839 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549144784 108153 :Bob!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1549144854 746785 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:701f:b8bf:f1aa:da6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549144938 606932 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:3928:f4a:8814:b90f JOIN :#esoteric < 1549145033 558824 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:701f:b8bf:f1aa:da6 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1549145062 555787 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549145754 8260 :wumpus1!~Thunderbi@2604:3d09:137f:d400:40a1:64ab:4d35:9670 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549149176 546459 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549151053 415247 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549151116 748450 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric