< 1546905765 694213 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1546908614 923190 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1546909557 77818 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1546909826 149983 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1546910302 785546 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1546910578 715911 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1546911147 146740 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1546911549 865104 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.79.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1546911803 724044 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1546911803 811888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1546911836 608472 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut, I distinctly was in the query window... < 1546911841 26647 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1546911919 20760 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I found the smaller modulus 1,4,0 (mod 15). Pondering some proper searching... < 1546911919 107434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1546911946 288963 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1546911968 727941 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slightly disturbed how mathematicians and programmers have two contradictory referents for the word "modulus" < 1546912374 259134 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulus has many suggestions < 1546912594 978983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Modulus_tectum.shell_001.jpg is actually quite pretty < 1546913247 63023 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1546913571 445692 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn I thought I'd found a tiny modulus in my search but I'd simply forgotten to apply mod :P < 1546913634 912036 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious bad luck: The smallest it found now was 13. < 1546913645 945262 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,4,0 (mod 13)) < 1546913649 88750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest modulus for what? < 1546913681 136976 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the scheme to adjust ais523's simpler 2-bracket construction to avoid non-negative cells < 1546913718 59256 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2 bracket pair < 1546913835 294132 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Searching say 1,4,0 (mod 13) < 1546913835 383934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1546914150 829628 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txzzekjyknxqcjtx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1546914525 744188 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I found an assumption to relax; make that 1,5,0 (mod 12) < 1546914525 891954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1546914530 985364 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad luck averted! < 1546914639 378889 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm curiously I think that's the one I thought of in bed this morning but thought didn't work. < 1546914695 470829 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has the nice property that x/y == y/x (mod 12) which made it easier to think of all cases by head) < 1546914765 440164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language that has things that are something like inlined functions, but that can do things that regular functions can't, since they're always inlined? < 1546914766 3688 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that makes x and y symmetrical up to a constant multiple < 1546914801 890637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, you maybe you could pass a goto label to them, even if goto labels don't exist as a first-class thing at runtime. < 1546914814 305491 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: CPP hth < 1546914826 428411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh < 1546914834 619289 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1546914870 611431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth-tdnh-shocking is the standard oerjan three-way handshake < 1546914884 914990 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1546914969 630823 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other macros like lisp's might work too < 1546915358 44757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macros are an answer, sure. < 1546915365 25073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd like something more structured, I guess? < 1546915628 185211 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried another relaxed assumption and now it tries to suggest 1,4,0 (mod 5) again < 1546915673 437215 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I dunno. < 1546915851 510117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do constexpr functions in C++ (and future rust) count? they can be invoked in places where the result must be known in compile time, mostly in template parameters and array bounds. < 1546915865 902600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, they don't give you any new capabilities over regular functions. < 1546915881 229619 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but they're still not macros, and in runtime, they behave practically the same as ordinary functions, except with a few implicit annotations that you could just put on a regular function. < 1546915882 814839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Template functions might count a bit. < 1546915926 583836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and you don't mean full macros, such as metafont macros or povray macros, right? < 1546915964 189074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, you don't. < 1546915976 830561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you want something more structured than lisp-like macros, and metafont macros are _less_ structured < 1546915992 618080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1546916084 570938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how about functions in a stack-based language like postscript or s-lang or underload, where some functions can access an unbounded and unpredictable number of args on the stack? < 1546916101 846820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it all to be resolved at compile-time. < 1546916113 930555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1546916134 531880 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1546916196 662810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, maybe something like those macro assemblers, where you could pass the name of a cpu register as argument to a macro you invoke < 1546916217 721957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gcc asm statements < 1546916308 427447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you do mean functions that a programmer can define, right? not just builtins that look like a function but do something normally impossible for a function, and the programmer can't even define a function that behaves exactly the same even if he can use the builtin in the impl, right? < 1546916333 613278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1546916361 479650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm imagining there are a bunch of things that you could pass to one of these functions. < 1546916370 195705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I think consider that macro assembler thing, only perhaps imagine a hypothetical more structured language that is designed to output machine code < 1546916379 36856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example goto labels or early exit labels, and block of code. < 1546916412 743042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the functions can take the name of a register as a parameter, or even an operand that can be either a gp register or a memory address with indexing as an argument, < 1546916436 717279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the function definition can put that parameter as operand into a machine instruction that can be emitted with those as operand, < 1546916458 643081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is only possible at compile time, since you can't really name those things or pass them as arguments to functinos at runtime < 1546916464 434950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that make sense? < 1546916470 628901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can also take a label < 1546916481 674425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc asm sort of works like that < 1546916483 358200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quite < 1546916497 268589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can imagine something like that, but I'm imagining it at a higher level. < 1546916497 531696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any language that actually works like this, but this is possible, right? < 1546916502 24705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a low level language < 1546916503 7515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1546916509 785834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not? < 1546916510 864088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want at higher level? dunno then < 1546916520 560711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at higher level there's the lisp macros and the metafont macros < 1546916528 324616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want higher-level compile-time objects than names of registers. < 1546916552 993774 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not something as macro-argument-like as identifiers or expressions? < 1546916573 36478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor even expressions of a particular syntactic precedence level or something? < 1546916575 457832 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1546916593 616757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, maybe sufficiently hygienic macros would do it. < 1546916600 427948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about C macros that take parts of identifiers? non-hygienic? < 1546916607 560775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. I don't know. < 1546916617 878931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly it can always be done with a macro, but it doesn't seem that great. < 1546916664 323243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could do this with a high-level language that compiles into a low-level language, but not machine code, and lets you write your choice of entirely high level code, or low-level code precise to what bytecode or whatever it is to emit < 1546916676 77273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those exist, but most of them are borderline esolangs < 1546916690 733787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1546916702 397802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really your _choice_ of high-level or low-level code < 1546916738 187896 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like your choice of how you imagine it, because the high-level code is actually treated like the low-level code with lots of compile-time abstractions over it by the compiler, but it's a good enough facade that you can ignore it most of the time < 1546916754 293932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Controlling which registers things go in seems like a very niche thing to me. < 1546916776 589695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some forth-alike could work < 1546916800 325058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that compiles down to a code made of sequences of words that are interpreted, and lets you emit words into the code < 1546916813 636311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't forth do that? < 1546916872 810787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it lets you call compile-time functions which can emit code into the caller, and in the simplest case, when they don't do any compile-time computations, they're just ordinary inline functions or macros, but in general they could do more < 1546916888 608537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused about what you're talking about. < 1546916896 162518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1546916898 523100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1546916916 642074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is a b_jonasism < 1546916926 57116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know perl, right? consider a BEGIN{...} block inside a function < 1546916976 553436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the block contents are implemented while compiling, and it can do ... interesting things, like modifying $^H and $^W, which influence compilation in that a cow-reference to the current value of $^W at compile time is saved to many opcodes < 1546916983 840070 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something close to that < 1546917000 135308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code in the BEGIN can even modify the parser, or modify the opcodes emitted if it really wants to < 1546917005 459589 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I think that by making the fallback cells enough closer to each other than to the other cells, and maybe removing one other cell, 1, -1, 0 (mod 5) can be made to work. < 1546917005 543854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1546917038 625092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are use declarations that are implicitly calling a function at compile time, so it's like compile-time functions < 1546917061 103103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forth thing is similar, I think, but with the compiler more accessible, so the compile-time functions can manipulate it more easily < 1546917091 157480 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, g'nite < 1546917092 296940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-220.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1546917390 142868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hell6914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59005&oldid=59001 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+949) 10 > 1546917435 209902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hell6914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59006&oldid=59005 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+20) 10/* Hello World Program */ > 1546917532 493700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59007&oldid=58970 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+51) 10 < 1546918743 134269 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urpqrhqrxjxdcqfw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1546919352 806402 :newbie!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1546919555 79523 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1546919653 515256 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1546920143 884990 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1546922109 339341 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1546923852 492951 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1546924963 541904 :oerjan!bc715ce1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.113.92.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I think a working cell placement should be: 5g(0)+1,5g(1)-1,5g(2),...,5g(c+1) where g(0) 1546965422 86399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ummm...14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59008&oldid=58850 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10 < 1546965482 853506 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1546965489 74813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dunke!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59009&oldid=58859 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10 > 1546965501 864994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* 10moved [[02Dunke!10]] to [[Dunka!]]: stuff > 1546965571 723522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59012&oldid=58995 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10/* D */ > 1546965723 658922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59013&oldid=58965 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10 < 1546965981 39975 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1546966890 849931 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1546967151 277659 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1546967516 534465 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1546968162 551558 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1546968410 640924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07J--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59014&oldid=44822 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-8) 10 < 1546970679 653051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1546971345 309581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NEGATOR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59015 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+882) 10Created page with "[[NEGATOR]] is a language where you can only decrement a value. It was made by [[Areallycoolusername]]. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! NEGATOR Command !! Function..." > 1546971378 981088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NEGATOR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59016&oldid=59015 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+6) 10 < 1546971466 741375 :kolontaev!~kolontaev@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1546971865 268861 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1546973014 136461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1546973014 223868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1546973014 223917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1546973536 767586 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -le 'print join("",map({chr(33+rand 93)}1..40));' < 1546973543 787744 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how insecure is this < 1546974112 315932 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :about perl < 1546974178 487874 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this considered to do? < 1546974355 994227 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as a guess, it's intended to create crumbtographically secure random IDs. < 1546974388 965805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the sort of ID that, on a cursory inspection, is not distinguistable from a cryptographically secure one.) < 1546974462 958719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: it's possible that someone else is doing the same thing, giving the risk of a collision if you both start in the same second (I think Perl probably seeds with current time, not sure though) < 1546974474 589514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-140.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1546974483 221642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, generating 40 characters is pointless as you only have 32 bits of collision resistance (again assuming a 32-bit RNG seed) < 1546974514 478329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-140.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the glibc rand actually has a bit larger seed than that, I think, but still it's a bad idea < 1546974541 413399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced Perl is using libc rand either < 1546974546 830040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-140.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather silly of perl to map its rand builtin to the libc rand function really < 1546974554 828946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-140.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: last I checked, some years ago, it was < 1546974569 159427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an explicit frowning-on in the rand perldoc, FWIW. < 1546974571 515677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-140.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reinvents all the good parts of libc, but uses the bad parts, including rand < 1546974587 287960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :""rand" is not cryptographically secure. You should not rely on it in security-sensitive situations. As of this writing, a number of third-party CPAN modules offer random number generators intended by their authors to be cryptographically secure, including: Data::Entropy, Crypt::Random, Math::Random::Secure, and Math::TrulyRandom." < 1546974590 378430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation implies that it uses libc rand in some sort of nonstandard wrapper < 1546974592 762040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even in bold type. < 1546974596 978731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because it doesn't trust the reported version of RAND_MAX < 1546974612 582254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reported value < 1546974693 722342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan it'd be possible for only one of the fallback cells to decrement the waterclocks (so the only decrements are fallbacks of each other, and one fallback of the waterclocks); that seems like it might make the modular math easier < 1546974693 797826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1546974737 874909 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1546974958 764982 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1546975107 860072 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1546976640 715050 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1546976662 66379 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1546976898 178336 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hnawvwsuuygebqzy QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1546976908 167222 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ginrgjknvnzudsal JOIN :#esoteric < 1546979263 171534 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1546981660 533083 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1546982781 562084 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1546982968 2166 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1546983737 543410 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1546983792 742607 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1546984717 39529 :kolontaev!~kolontaev@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1546987972 831497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1546988046 163375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1546988180 790083 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1546989141 803451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1546989205 499399 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1546991008 972107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hell6914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59017&oldid=59006 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+71) 10/* Instructions */ > 1546991623 963727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hell6914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59018&oldid=59017 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+81) 10/* Hello World Program */ > 1546991714 648461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hell6914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59019&oldid=59018 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+8) 10/* Hello World Program */