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00:56:16 <esowiki> [[FALSE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58762&oldid=47263 * Voltage2007 * (-23) Fixed grammatical errors
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01:14:33 <oerjan> <int-e> . o O ( let's blame oerjan ) <-- i don't use the stalker logs hth
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13:08:43 <ais523_> @messages?
13:08:43 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
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13:09:35 <ais523> @messages?
13:09:35 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
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13:10:35 <Luciole> @messages?
13:10:35 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
13:27:01 <ais523_> six does seem like too many variables for Blindfolded Arithmetic
13:27:42 <ais523_> my own solution to the problem was a three-counter machine (basically due to the I/O encoding issue; a two-counter machine can't do the I/O encoding by itself so you'd need a separate system for that, a three-counter machine can)
13:28:04 <ais523_> more recently, I've been thinking that Fractran may be a good target language
13:28:14 <ais523_> we have basically all the primitives we need already
13:28:53 <ais523_> (a zero-test can be done via adding 1 and dividing into 1, and a modulus operation via divide, multiply, subtract)
13:29:23 <ais523_> let's see… we need one variable for the current working value, and two (probably) as temporaries
13:29:48 <ais523_> let's say a as the working value, b and c as the temporaries
13:31:23 <ais523_> a divisibility check by a constant k is b=a; b/=k; b*=k; b-=a; b-=a/a; c=a/a; c/=b;, now c is 1 if k divides a, 0 if k does not divide a
13:32:14 <ais523_> (Blindfolded Arithmetic doesn't have numerical constants but we can use c as a temporary to hold the value of k)
13:33:37 <ais523_> err, c is now -1 if k divides a, or 0 if k does not divide a, a distinction that's not massively important
13:34:30 <Luciole> What are the constraints in Blindfolded Arithmetic/where can I find more info about it?
13:35:04 <ais523_> Luciole: see https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/162531 for a specification
13:35:56 <ais523_> although when b_jonas and I discuss it in IRC we sometimes use shorthand, which follows the same rules as C
13:37:07 <ais523_> you can pretty much define the language in one line, though: "a bignum language which supports addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, assignment, but only one assignment and one arithmetic operation per line, no constants, no flow control, the entire program is one big loop"
13:37:23 <ais523_> what we're mostly focusing on is trying to reduce the number of variables you need for TCness as far as possible
13:38:10 <ais523_> oh, and division is integer division that trunactes towards 0
13:38:24 <ais523_> which is actually really exploitable
13:38:41 <ais523_> b_jonas has a theory that Blindfolded Arithmetic is very close to the language planned for the original Analytical Engine
13:40:11 <ais523_> anyway, we have our divisibility test, so the other thing we need for TCness is a conditional-multiply-by-ratio
13:41:12 <ais523_> and you can do that with b=a; b+=a; b+=a; … b+=a; b*=c; b+=a; b+=a; … b+=a; a=b (followed by calculating your denominator using b and c and dividing a by it)
13:41:54 <ais523_> once you do this you have a "cyclic" version of Fractran, which is TC because you can easily implement regular Fractran using one extra prime to see if you've already done a division this cycle
13:42:05 <ais523_> so it looks like three variables is enough for this without I/O
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13:43:30 <ais523_> @message b_jonas on the subject of Blindfolded Arithmetic, I think it and buzzard.1/0 are as different as bignum brainfuck and infinite-tape brainfuck
13:43:30 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages?
13:43:33 <ais523_> @tell b_jonas on the subject of Blindfolded Arithmetic, I think it and buzzard.1/0 are as different as bignum brainfuck and infinite-tape brainfuck
13:43:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:44:09 <ais523_> @tell b_jonas which is, very similar spec, but very different programming styles; as such, there is probably room for a page about both languages (obviously, with cross-links)
13:44:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:45:32 <ais523_> I/O encoding seems nightmarish in this, though, so you might need a fourth variable for that
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13:54:47 <Luciole> ais523_: ah
13:56:19 <ais523_> I guess I/O encoding will definitely require a loop, and the only place I can see to store the encoded value of the I/O is c
13:57:16 <ais523_> meaning that we have to dead-reckon c throughout the entire operation in order to store an extra piece of data in it, which will have interesting effects on a (but we might be able to control them)
13:57:35 <ais523_> anyway, I have a meeting
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15:23:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Leduyquang753 *  New user account
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18:05:38 <b_jonas> ais523: I believe five variables are enough for blindfolded arithmetic, and four may be, see channel logs yesterday
18:06:31 <b_jonas> ais523: sure they're different. you allow a = b / a which Babbage's doesn't allow, which might just give you a bit of an edge when it comes to the number of variables
18:07:09 <b_jonas> ais523: I'll try to write down a detailed and readable proof some time on how I can simulate two tapes with five variables, and, if I can make it work, with four variables
18:08:11 <b_jonas> "b_jonas has a theory that Blindfolded Arithmetic is very close to the language planned for the original Analytical Engine" => definitely not. I'm saying it's very similar to the machine that IOCCC entry talks about. its author was the one who compared it to Babbage's something or anohter,
18:08:22 <b_jonas> I don't think it has much to do with Babbage actually.
18:10:02 <b_jonas> ais523: you're saying three variables? dunno, might be possible, I don't claim it impossible.
18:13:50 <b_jonas> also, wth, ais523 around 12:30 Z?
18:46:27 <int-e> @metar EGKK
18:46:29 <lambdabot> EGKK 201820Z 21006KT 9999 BKN032 09/06 Q1008
18:46:39 <int-e> . o O ( what's the indicator for increased drone activity? )
18:58:16 <b_jonas> int-e: high temperature and buzzing
18:58:26 <b_jonas> also allergies
18:58:39 <int-e> different kind of drones
19:04:23 <b_jonas> try listening for microwave-based control signals 
19:06:29 <int-e> b_jonas: ah but I wanted a METAR acronym.
19:07:20 * int-e could have been more specific.
19:07:38 <int-e> @google egkk
19:07:39 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatwick_Airport
19:33:50 <fizzie> `icao EGKK
19:33:51 <HackEso> Gatwick (LGW, EGKK)
19:34:13 <fizzie> `airport gatwick
19:34:13 <HackEso> Gatwick (LGW, EGKK)
19:35:05 <fizzie> (Just checking.)
19:35:32 <int-e> I didn't know or forgot that we had those (probably the latter).
19:35:50 <fizzie> I remember them, I just can't remember the syntax.
19:36:22 <fizzie> It's a little ambiguous whether `icao is for converting from or to.
19:37:21 <b_jonas> is there a command that tells the timezone and current timezone offset for an airport?
19:38:42 <fizzie> Not that I know of, though the timezone is part of airports.dat.
19:39:07 <fizzie> `` grep Gatwick share/airports.dat
19:39:07 <HackEso> 502,"Gatwick","London","United Kingdom","LGW","EGKK",51.148056,-0.190278,202,0,"E","Europe/London"
19:39:45 <int-e> `` grep LOWI share/airports.dat
19:39:46 <HackEso> 1610,"Innsbruck","Innsbruck","Austria","INN","LOWI",47.260219,11.343964,1906,1,"E","Europe/Vienna"
19:39:53 <int-e> last entry, I see
19:40:31 <b_jonas> ``` grep Arizona share/airports.dat
19:40:32 <HackEso> No output.
19:41:13 <b_jonas> there's no international airport in Arizona?
19:41:22 <int-e> `` head -n1 share/airports.dat
19:41:22 <HackEso> 1,"Goroka","Goroka","Papua New Guinea","GKA","AYGA",-6.081689,145.391881,5282,10,"U","Pacific/Port_Moresby"
19:41:37 <int-e> no column description :/
19:42:35 <fizzie> `` grep KPHX share/airports.dat
19:42:36 <HackEso> 3462,"Phoenix Sky Harbor Intl","Phoenix","United States","PHX","KPHX",33.434278,-112.011583,1135,-7,"N","America/Phoenix"
19:42:46 <fizzie> There is, it just doesn't say "Arizona" anywhere in it.
19:43:36 <fizzie> int-e: The column description is at https://openflights.org/data.html
19:43:41 <int-e> hmm. 5282 is in m, 1906 is in ft?
19:43:45 <int-e> darn
19:43:50 <int-e> I meant to delete that, never mind.
19:44:13 <int-e> Google AYGA elevation is wrong :)
19:44:19 <fizzie> Except the "type" and "source" columns might be newer than in our copy.
19:46:19 <b_jonas> `? bacon tree
19:46:20 <HackEso> bacon tree? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:47:42 <int-e> `? drone
19:47:44 <HackEso> Drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times.
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19:49:00 <int-e> `grWp shrdlu
19:49:02 <HackEso> No output.
19:50:18 <b_jonas> `? pixel
19:50:19 <HackEso> pixel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:51:44 <b_jonas> `? voxel
19:51:45 <HackEso> voxel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:52:20 <b_jonas> `? bloxel
19:52:21 <HackEso> bloxel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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19:55:27 <b_jonas> `? Axel
19:55:28 <HackEso> Axel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:55:29 <b_jonas> `? axle
19:55:30 <HackEso> axle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:55:32 <b_jonas> `? excel
19:55:33 <HackEso> excel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:55:37 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded arithmetic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58763 * B jonas * (+776) Created page with "'''Blindfolded arithmetic''' is an esoteric language that [[User:ais523]] has published in 2018 on Code Golf Stack Exchange.  It is similar to a language called Babbage's Anal..."
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21:14:10 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded arithmetic]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58764&oldid=58763 * B jonas * (+876) 
21:18:03 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded arithmetic]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58765&oldid=58764 * B jonas * (+47) 
21:18:18 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded arithmetic]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58766&oldid=58765 * B jonas * (+0) 
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