00:02:02 -!- imode has joined. 00:02:38 -!- Hoolootwo has changed nick to Hooloovo0. 00:14:51 -!- nfd9001 has joined. 00:24:57 olsner: Funky. 00:35:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 00:45:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:04:13 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:05:00 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:12:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:02:25 -!- imode has joined. 02:46:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:47:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:52:46 -!- doesthiswork1 has joined. 02:52:46 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:47 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:03:20 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: No route to host). 03:09:43 -!- Essadon has quit (Quit: Qutting). 03:20:47 -!- S_Gautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:25:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:25:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 03:25:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 03:25:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 04:00:36 -!- MDude has joined. 04:58:52 -!- nchambers has joined. 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:12:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:21:31 -!- nchambers has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2). 06:12:02 One variant of Scrabble that I read is that you are allowed to exchange your letters with ones already on the board, one at a time, as long as the new letter still causes it to form a valid word. You can do this multiple times per turn, but only one letter is changed at a time. 06:19:01 -!- imode has joined. 06:49:07 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:51:31 -!- MDude has joined. 06:57:27 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:06:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:06:53 -!- tromp has joined. 07:06:55 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:17:54 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:47:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:47:47 -!- tromp has joined. 07:52:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:53:03 -!- tromp has joined. 08:10:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:10:52 -!- tromp has joined. 08:26:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:53:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:01:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:07:14 -!- S_Gautam has joined. 09:08:42 -!- b_jonas has joined. 09:09:16 zzo38: I don't like the idea for that Scrabble variant. I think it would lead to slow play. 09:09:58 zzo38: What you could do is to allow only blank tiles to be replaced, even with a different letter than the blank originally designated. 09:10:19 And possibly add two more blank tiles. 09:24:38 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:02:26 maybe a rule where you can add letters into existing words, expanding them? 10:07:50 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Salpynx * uploaded "[[File:Hello World! in He110! with other automata rules.png]]" 10:08:43 -!- arseniiv has joined. 10:39:19 [[He110!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58735&oldid=58731 * Salpynx * (+642) /* Further development */ encode other automata edge rules 11:05:56 [[He110!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58736&oldid=58735 * Salpynx * (+1087) /* Examples */ other automata example 12:25:43 [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58737&oldid=53257 * FTcode * (-228) 12:32:41 -!- S_Gautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:33:57 [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58738&oldid=58737 * FTcode * (+186) 12:51:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:53:21 @metar ENVA 12:53:21 ENVA 151250Z 10006KT CAVOK M13/M16 Q1028 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15013KT 12:54:09 my cold seems to have got worse again (although without the sneezing), so i'm staying inside for the day 12:54:23 which then makes my _back_ complain. 12:55:20 @metar lowi 12:55:21 LOWI 151250Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW030 M03/M09 Q1022 NOSIG 12:55:23 old man oerjan 12:55:31 or rather, my back chose to complain today and a walk outside is the usual way i get that better :( 12:57:02 ♫ I am 48, going on 49... ♫ 12:57:10 you can walk up and down your room 12:57:40 i do 12:57:42 soon to be square 12:57:58 i'll be so hip 12:58:16 (unless i need a hip replacement. not quite there yet...) 12:59:35 `? tofu 12:59:37 tofu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:59:49 (I just stumbled across "Trust on First Use (TOFU)") 13:01:08 `grWp carbon 13:01:10 No output. 13:01:15 `quote carbon 13:01:15 28) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 13:02:46 salpynx's he110 makes me wonder if anyone's tried to make something like a hello, world in rule 110 itself ... something that starts from something else and then looks like it for a bit 13:02:51 fungot`: say something? 13:02:51 int-e: i may have figured it out already) was that it 13:03:18 ^style europarl 13:03:18 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 13:03:42 fungot`: pontificate? 13:03:43 int-e: as i explained earlier, and goes on until 17 april. i am in favour of sensible management and control system needs to be consistency. for example, i see a confirmation of the highly adverse impact of illegal immigration with all its weaknesses and its encouraging signs, i would like to seek your support for my opinion which it voted upon and adopted unanimously. it is still necessary, and regionalisation, which i would a 13:04:19 ^style 13:04:19 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:04:28 ^style agora 13:04:28 Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) 13:04:40 fungot 13:04:40 int-e: whenever a player randomly from among all the properties named to the public 13:07:44 -!- S_Gautam has joined. 13:12:31 fizzie: these days there should be a ukparl style 13:13:28 (that thing looks more and more like a big game of chicken) 13:15:54 are there transcripts of the debates? 13:16:04 hmm, +public 13:18:01 i wanted to pun tofu with meatless, but cannot find any confirmation that the latter has the metaphoric meaning i imagine 13:19:31 "The single largest strength of any TOFU-style model is that a human being must initially validate every interaction." "The largest weakness of any TOFU-style model is that a human being must initially validate every interaction," 13:25:54 secure communication between people would be so easy without the people 13:26:25 that would be quotable if it weren't too obvious 13:26:50 secure communication between people would be so easy without the human factor 13:26:51 :P 13:27:20 -!- Essadon has joined. 13:27:55 also https://xkcd.com/703/ 13:44:38 -!- derpy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:00:25 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:00:05 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:03:04 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:03:35 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 15:25:25 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 15:26:40 -!- derpy has joined. 15:26:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:26:54 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 15:26:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 15:26:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:32:06 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:34:10 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 15:35:56 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:36:08 -!- tromp has joined. 15:41:45 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:43:38 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 15:46:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:47:19 -!- tromp has joined. 15:53:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:53:20 -!- tromp has joined. 15:54:48 int-e: "This Hansard corpus (or collection of texts) contains nearly every speech given in the British Parliament from 1803-2005, and it allows you to search these speeches (including semantically-based searches) in ways that are not possible with any other resource." 15:55:03 Unfortunately, 2005 is a little too far in the past to reflect the... recent events. 15:55:29 Still, could be worth to include. I haven't added any corpora in a while. 15:56:59 Except it looks like the data isn't freely available there, it's just a search engine. Maybe. But perhaps it's available somewhere else. 15:58:15 Good, there's a CC-BY-licensed corpus of "British parliamentary debates from 1998 to 2015" at Ortolang. 15:58:22 Still a bit dated for this particular use though. 15:58:38 aww 15:59:15 I'm sure in a decade or two we'll (a) all look back on this and laugh (b) have it available. 16:22:41 -!- S_Gautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:25:59 oerjan: I opened the newest of the files at random, and they're talking about brexit. 16:32:50 Ooh, TheyWorkForYou publishes a rsyncable database that is actually up to date. 16:33:48 When was that damnable referendum again? Maybe I'll train from that day up to present. 16:35:34 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:07 -!- tromp has joined. 16:36:14 yay 16:36:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 16:41:31 -!- imode has joined. 16:47:22 -!- grumble has changed nick to \x01VERSION\x01. 16:50:17 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:34 -!- tromp has joined. 16:57:46 "Finished reading 25663587 words." 17:01:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:05:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:19:02 A mahjong rule variant: If someone makes a closed kan while you have riichi, if the one they make kan is the only possible card that could complete your hand, then you win; it counts as tsumo rather than ron. 17:24:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:34:31 -!- b_jonas has joined. 17:49:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 17:50:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:50:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 17:50:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:56:05 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:56:24 -!- tromp has joined. 18:04:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 18:06:07 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:07:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:08:30 -!- tromp has joined. 18:21:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:50 -!- tromp has joined. 18:34:11 anybody wanna contest that sets are computationally elusive. 18:38:46 imode: that sounds a bit too vague for my liking 18:40:51 core reasoning: there is no convenient way to store a set as a single data structure that is simply unordered and unique. any computational primitives you use must have additional logic added to their operations to preserve uniqueness and a lack of ordering. 18:41:01 A precise statement along these lines is that the set of computable (or recursively enumerable) sets of natural numbers is countable, for example, so there are uncountably many other sets that cannot be computed (recursivly enumerated). 18:41:34 you can use lists with a uniqueness predicate and ignore ordering, but there's an ordering there, and you're just using lists. 18:41:57 you can use any manner of other discrete structure but ordering is going to be there. 18:43:37 on that level, for finite sets, lists and just equality is enough to represent sets... you just won't have a unique representation. 18:44:21 Which btw means that finite sets of computable reals are tricky because computable reals don't have a decidable equality. 18:44:26 kind of what I'm saying. ordering and non-uniqueness kind of eliminates sets as a basic structure. 18:44:27 You may call that elusive. 18:44:43 because ordering and non-uniqueness are fundamental 18:45:03 not how set are defined 18:45:23 a set is defined as a collection of unordered unique elements. 18:45:33 that may be arbitrarily nested. 18:45:34 axiom of extensionality: A = B if x in A if and only if x in B for all x. 18:46:01 sets aren't ordered even in set theory 18:46:43 you aren't getting what I'm saying, so let me be more clear: there is no such thing as an unordered unique collection in computing. 18:46:57 there are ordered collections with a uniqueness predicate. 18:47:37 but I can't build a "set structured memory", for instance. 18:47:58 I can fake it by ignoring order. 18:48:08 and I can fake it by adding a uniqueness check to every insertion. 18:48:14 meh it's really a matter of defining an interface for your data structure 18:48:49 basically all data structures have extraneous information. For example, two equal big integers may have different addresses. 18:50:37 So I'd disagree. Working with quotients (representations modulo some congruence relation) is everywhere in programming, and while it's possible to peek inside and destroy the illusion, it's generally not useful. 18:50:59 assume for a moment that you wanted to build a "computational foundation for mathematics", which basically means taking a model of computation and trying to define a bunch of useful math within it. we already have ZFC, so why not try modeling ZFC within that model of computation so the operations line up. 18:51:01 So as long as we have equality tests for the elements, we can represent finite sets, no issue at all. 18:51:18 much like we tried almost a century ago. 18:51:57 there is no model of computation that exists that can define/formulate sets without that illusion _unless_ sets are taken as a computational primitive. 18:51:59 much like in SETL. 18:53:14 my question is is the statement above true, noting that the only reason it can be considered true is that every model of computation not presupposing unordered unique collections admits only ordered non-unique collections. 18:53:22 imode: meh, I've done some refinement in Isabelle/HOL. For finite sets, typically one refines to lists there are two choices. a) equality only, refining to lists with unique elements. Whenever one folds (iterates) over a set, one has to use an associative, commutative operation. b) refine to ordered lists, which solve the unique representation problem. 18:53:29 but a) is a perfectly viable approach. 18:54:18 c) is a proper container like red-black-trees, which refine ordered lists and do away with unique representations again. 18:55:17 right. but that's kind of my point: you always have to suppose, to work properly, an ordered, non-unique collection in order to derive unordered unique collections. 18:55:35 yes, but we're dealing with it. 18:55:38 :P 18:56:02 and as I said, the unordered view on a list is actually viable. 18:56:09 if mathematics is to be considered algorithmic, this is a non-zero unit cost to dealing with sets. enumeration, folding, any operation really incurs an extra step compared to starting with ordered collections. 18:56:25 it's uncommon because usually orders are easy to define and give significant performance benefits. 18:56:49 an additional question would be: what would the "list" or "tree" equivalent of ZFC be. 18:57:02 hell I'll take non-well founded theories. 18:59:22 I get that you can "deal with it", but it's just a philosophical take. 18:59:41 Embedding data types into sets tends to be tedious. You can carve out lists from partial functions from naturals to your element type, but that's rather ad hoc. In Isabelle/HOL there's some heavy machinery reasoning about cardinals that does that for a large class of least fixed points of various functors (and a bit more to allow codata). 18:59:43 what's more "fundamental" in structuring something? does structure imply some order? 19:01:12 And that may be considered cheating at the foundations because Isabelle/HOL isn't ZFC, it's a Hindley-Milner typed set theory. 19:02:23 But in any case, you can embed data type constructions into ZFC. You can also take the attitude that since you can embed Turing Machines into ZFC, and those cover everything computable, you don't need to bother with programming language types at all. 19:02:32 * int-e shrugs. 19:02:53 * int-e wonders where this is going... 19:03:16 int-e: sure, but in theory you could mechanically translate that Hindley-Milner stuff to an underlying untyped representation, right? 19:03:37 the type system is certainly useful, to avoid mistakes, but it's not some theoretical problem I think 19:03:42 I don't think it counts as cheating 19:03:49 But I think the main disagreement is still that I'm saying that quotients are everywhere and so standard that they are hardly worth discussing, and imode disagrees. 19:04:08 I parse your agument int-e as "it doesn't matter". 19:05:13 imode: A point I haven't made: quotients are even present in mathematics, everywhere. Constructing rationals from integers, constructing reals from rationals... in the typical approaches, you have some representation of your new object, but it's not unique, so you take a quotiont. 19:05:31 not sure what quotient means in this context. 19:07:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotient_algebra 19:07:48 I think we have to consider the different properties of the things we build the "primitives" of math out of, and if math is to be taken as algorithmic (not necessarily turing computable, but algorithmic), then the properties of those things need to be neccessarily algorithmic as well. 19:08:50 which just made me think about some foundational stuff like ZF and ZFC. 19:09:12 1/3 is a representation of a rational number; it can also be represented as (-1)/(-3), 2/6, (-2)/(-6), ... 19:09:16 like "can you represent sets computationally", "how would you represent sets in arbitrary models of computation". 19:10:08 so I guess I'm just searching for a counterexample. like, what model of computation doesn't presuppose sets and doesn't have that illusion. where are the models where we don't have to "deal with it" or spend some time or space complexity. 19:10:47 I don't think that sets are fundamental in the outside sense, as in, that we use ZFC in praticular as the standard axiom system is more or less an accident of history, and we could use many equivalent systems with data structures other than sets. 19:10:50 so when defining Q, a common approach is to first look at pairs (a, b) with b != 0 (and value a/b), and then say that a/b = c/d if a*d = b*c, which defines a congruence relation (it's an equivalence relation which is compatible with addition and multiplication), and then take the quotient modulo that congruence relation. 19:11:05 right, and that presupposes ordered pairs. 19:11:26 And then for computing with elements of Q, we routinely go back to representatives a/b, rather than writing out complete congruence classes. 19:11:27 But I also don't think there's anything wrong with sets. They're simple and convenient enough, not very artificial, so this is a good choice. 19:12:21 And yes, we can usually use representatives, but it's not essential that we can use them, and in some general contexts a choice of representative elements need not exist. 19:12:21 well, I think that ordered collections are natural from a philosophical standpoint. show me something without order, and I'll show you that it's not a preferred order, but it _is_ an order. 19:12:30 algorithmically I take that stance as well. 19:12:36 Taking the whole equivalence class usually works as a fallback. 19:13:19 It gets ugly when that equivalence class is not a set, because it makes proofs more complicated to write, but there's no real theoretical difficulty. 19:13:24 imode: so that's an example of a quotient, which basically exhibits the same phenomenon you're worrying about for sets: the same rational number has several representations. A difference is that we have decided which representative is canonical, for every rational number (a/b with b > 0 and a and b coprime... but you can actually work with rational numbers without ever doing that). 19:14:48 that's actually pretty interesting. I actually wonder if there might be some foundation in something like a nondeterministic TM which enumerates a given set. 19:15:16 i.e "here's a bunch of potential orderings, pick the one you want, or pick at random." 19:15:51 some algorithm that enumerates/generates a set but does not presuppose a given order. 19:20:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:21:12 so that means you'd need to presuppose nondeterminism.. hm. 19:21:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:22:33 imode: I'm sorry, I should not have been quite so dismissive. The issue you're describing is real. It's just that it's well-known and quite universal, we deal with it all the time, when programming, and also in mathematics itself. 19:23:28 it's alright! just trying to reconcile it with my personal sense of aesthetics. I have a programming environment that I'm building that already has a language, so I'm considering how I'd approach some foundations of that language. 19:23:46 "yes, the program said [42,1,666,23], but let's just pretend that the order has no significance, because we know it's printing a set." 19:23:53 . o O ( what's the categorical definition of non-canonicity ) 19:24:09 oerjan: dym canonical? 19:24:29 s//al/ 19:25:08 the interplay between deterministic computation and nondeterministic computation leads you going in circles. deterministic MoCs can simulate nondeterministic MoCs by enumerating all branches, while nondeterministic MoCs take deterministic MoCs as special cases. 19:27:13 . o O ( also any set that contains both 42 and 666 is trying too hard ) 19:27:39 so if we say that you need a nondeterministic MoC to "properly" represent unordered, unique collections.. well, there's that problem of uniqueness. 19:28:09 nondeterminism gets you unordered collections, but you still have a non-zero algorithmic cost to determine uniqueness. 19:28:36 as in, "I need to check my with my collection every time I do something that may endanger the fact that the elements are unique." 19:29:00 that may give some credence towards multisets. 19:29:32 . o O ( snowflake-based computing ) 19:30:41 quantum sorting: shuffle your list based on the outcome of reading a qubit; destroy the universe if the list is not sorted. 19:31:36 destroying the universe is not in BQP hth 19:31:46 this is, of course, a slightly more radical version of quantum suicide. 19:32:05 (except for solipsists) 19:35:00 . o O ( noone pointed out that I better use at least ceil(log_2(n!)) qubits ) 19:37:05 ;) 19:45:39 so multisets may actually be a perfectly sound foundation. they only require a lack of ordering. 19:47:17 nah, multisets are useless 19:47:27 shots fired. :P 19:50:09 b_jonas: I have plenty of uses for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiset_ordering 19:52:41 so ordered, non-unique: lists/trees, etc. unordered, non-unique: multisets. ordered, unique: ???. unordered, unique: sets. 19:55:02 (though it may be kind of telling that both definitions come from term rewriting people (though Oppen may have been (or is?) more of a first-order theorem proving person)) 19:57:07 I guess I'm also biased towards ordered collections as a basis as well because in our universe, there always exists a "canonical ordering" for at least one thing. 19:57:31 time kinda ensures that. 19:59:30 like I can say "I don't have an ordering for this", but to do anything, you need an ordering. 20:00:24 you can construct an ordering, just like you can construct an ordered pair from sets. 20:06:53 be back soon. ttyl. o/ 20:11:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:14:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:30:42 From training logs: "New: communist-manufactured pen" 20:31:13 "As [Gorbachev] went to sign into effect the dissolution of the Soviet Union, his communist-manufactured pen did not work, and he had to borrow a working pen from the CNN camera crew who were filming the event." 20:31:21 fizzie: that's like the urban legand about the million dollar pen that can write in a zero-gravity environment? 20:31:29 developed by NASA 20:31:38 ah 20:31:40 that's even better 20:32:20 "Alongside St John Paul II, President Reagan and our own Margaret Thatcher, we were instrumental in resisting totalitarianism and inspiring the captive peoples of Europe to stand up against their communist overlords. At the same time, the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Home Secretary were going on motorbike tours of East Germany." 20:33:06 (Unfortunately the models I've gotten out of this so far haven't sounded very good.) 20:33:21 are you training fungot or some new thing? 20:33:21 b_jonas: particular currency. each office, the assessor in the scorekeepor's announcement, that is not prohibited or regulated by a 20:33:40 Training a complementary "ukparl" style for fungot, yes. 20:33:40 fizzie: ( -o) when, during agora's birthday is defined in the number of rules is decided by the 20:33:48 nice 20:34:10 do you want to train a bibul style? 20:35:38 I've tried some bible variants, I don't think I put any online. 20:37:06 `bibul 20:37:07 ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bibul: not found 20:37:11 `? bibul 20:37:11 hmm 20:37:12 bibul? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:37:21 wasn't there someting in hackego for that? 20:45:38 -!- fungot` has changed nick to fungot. 20:45:39 fungot`: can you say something about resilience? 20:45:40 int-e: srfi-67 seems to be working 20:45:52 ^style 20:45:52 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube 20:45:54 ^style ukparl 20:45:54 Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) 20:46:02 fungot: How about that brexit then? 20:46:02 fizzie: and of any information capable of being viewed as important, the groceries code statutory? under the current uk system at the same in the hon. and learned friend the member for nottingham north ( mr allen) and the hon. and learned friend the member for west dorset, to many colleagues, the schools. 20:46:24 Surprisingly, there are other topics. 20:46:37 fungot: fnord? 20:46:37 int-e: that, of the fnord fr fnord, or kfw, sits, that what the hon. member, one surveyor, and my fnord, the hon. and learned friend, in the sense of a government lurching from one crisis to another: the nuclear deal, the billions to the uk over the us, the arab world, and the work of the house. 20:46:46 .. 20:46:52 That wasn't planned. 20:47:08 * int-e is feeling lucky. 20:48:00 the hon. and learned friend the member fungot makes more meaningful statements than some hon. and learn friend members of the parliament 20:48:00 b_jonas: the european union 20:48:02 (but not lucky enough to try that again) 20:48:04 The Perl script I have can take a pre-set initial context, which is nice if you'd like fungot to make a statement on a particular topic. 20:48:04 fizzie: is the hon. member of this house, including any concerns. from the time, 20:48:27 "the challenge for brexit is a wee step behind, as i very much want that unintended consequence?" 20:48:43 good one 20:48:57 but a tad too honest, I'd say 20:49:08 fungot: teeth? 20:49:08 int-e: my hon. and learned friend, particularly for the very youngest. i predict, and to those of the many fnord journalists, of parliamentarians. 20:49:36 fungot: seriously, no brexit at all? 20:49:37 int-e: i was a member, for the opportunity to get 20:50:00 fungot: will you be more successful than Theresa May in convincing Ireland to quit the EU? 20:50:00 b_jonas: at the time, given the minister a very specific issue, and that over 500 other firms, the third party, the sale of fnord to fnord alone, and would be the same government that schools, and sports organisations 20:50:03 fungot: well I suppose there are other topics 20:50:03 int-e: to fnord part of the uk, through the media, the radio, the importance of an independent uk trade policy. it is the time for the government to continuing the discussion with the fnord stakeholders. 20:50:30 that is right, hon. and learned friend 20:50:42 fizzie: is there a way for you to check whether "brexit" made it into the word list? 20:50:56 the sale of... yeah 20:52:35 int-e: It must've been, otherwise the script for that brexit statement would've complained. 20:53:19 ah, sorry. I missed the point of that quote. 20:53:20 On the sorted unigram list, it's somewhere around rank 240, between "doing" and "home". 20:53:39 not bad 20:56:09 Top 500 most common tokens: https://zem.fi/tmp/top500.txt 20:56:21 what is the opinion of my hon. and learened friedn fungot ofabout brexit? 20:56:21 b_jonas: in that case, the hon. member, yet that is the only data that includes additional high-value investment, specifically the right point 20:58:06 fizzie: so there are more closing parentheses than opening parentheses? fun.... 20:58:39 int-e: sure. unmatched opening parenthesis aren't very useful, but unmatched closing parenthesis can be used like 20:58:44 #define F G( 20:59:07 #define G(0) 0,F 20:59:10 no wait 20:59:12 dunno 20:59:27 there's some C preprocessor magic that uses lists separated by closing parenthesis anyway 21:00:07 b_jonas: and how does that connect with transcripts from the UK parliament? 21:00:22 not at all probably 21:00:45 int-e: There might be some preprocessing issues there. 21:01:58 Just counting '(' and ')' in the source XML files, there are 78166 (s and 78170 )s. 21:02:01 hmm, number one: 324 -3.60044 1 -0.601376 21:02:28 well that seems close enough :) 21:02:48 Some of those parentheses may have gotten attached to words, I think there's some known issues about consecutive punctuation. 21:03:04 unlikely that "their" and "who" are both squeezed between these two numbers. 21:03:26 (oh...) 21:03:39 we should start addressing people on esoteric "my hon. and learned friend" 21:03:51 wow, "church" didn't make the list 21:04:03 `welcome b_jonas 21:04:06 b_jonas: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 21:04:22 b_jonas: there's a chance for you to do that :P 21:06:42 but it sounds condescending to me... so if I get a vote on this I'm against it. 21:08:54 ok 21:14:32 -!- MDude has joined. 21:14:56 oh 21:25:31 fungot: so what you're saying is that for those two years, the hon. friends carefully avoided discussing the mess? 21:25:31 oerjan: is the hon. member of this house, and the pay of the chief executive, but consequently her working years shows the success, or seeking to transfer the european law, 21:26:45 i have this feeling there may be a bit heavy line breaking 21:28:30 is this based on transcriptions from the house of commons? 21:28:35 ^style 21:28:35 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube 21:29:04 ^style ukparl 21:29:04 Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) 21:29:58 good question, hmm, I'd hope that this includes both houses? 21:30:29 probably 21:30:41 but the house of commons is the one with the more lively discussions I think 21:30:53 fungot: so how do you feel about a no-deal brexit 21:30:53 Luciole: government should agree to and put to the people in a vote. he was never told he is pursuing his interest, to the rightful role 21:31:47 Luciole: http://parser.theyworkforyou.com/hansard.html seems to be what fizzie used, and it mentions both houses. 21:31:50 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:31:57 ah 21:33:55 fungot: yeah, my hon. and learned friend, that part is easy, but what shall the question of the vote be? depending on the question, we'll get entirely complimentary outcomes 21:33:55 b_jonas: i, for one, and i have to be frank, the last 12 years. the canadian fnord food, given the secretary of fnord members, and to our way of life, 21:35:04 well, at least you are frank, my hon. and learned friend 21:35:23 int-e: do you also object against calling fungot my hon. and learned friend? 21:35:23 b_jonas: this was the first time, the hon. member. a damaged and disrupted fnord by lone fathers, and should try to ensure, and to all the people. 21:35:39 yes. it's always the first time. good excuse. 21:35:45 you go scott free just this one time. 21:36:27 b_jonas: I don't mind addressing fungot in a condescending way 21:36:27 int-e: there is, to a degree, the nursing and midwifery council, the coroners and justice act 2009 21:36:36 b_jonas: I think it has done quite enough to deserve it ;) 21:37:04 `? fungot 21:37:04 int-e: we, of course, of the north-east. it is my great pleasure to have the opportunity. 21:37:05 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 21:40:54 Luciole: It's from Commons, I think. 21:41:15 Or, no, maybe both. 21:41:32 http://parser.theyworkforyou.com/hansard.html "Debates (Commons), Debates (Lords), Westminster Hall" 21:42:30 I trained on the scrapedxml/debates/debates*.xml files, from 2016 June to present day. 21:43:08 oh no! I think she's a witch! 21:43:34 I think that's "Commons main chamber debates" only. 21:46:43 I think for Lords I would've needed to look in the lordspages/daylord*.xml files. 21:50:26 oerjan: By the way, the lines ending in a comma are likely because the transcripts put all quotes in their own separate

element. 21:50:34

Hyde also said that as a housing provider, it needed to

21:50:37

“make efficient use of its income to ensure we are able to prioritise building more homes to help address the housing crisis”,

21:50:41

which meant it had to make difficult choices about what additional services it continued to fund and what it stopped.

21:51:28 Other than that treatment of quotes, the

element seemed like a logical unit for fungotting. The full elements (which is whenever the speaker changes) are pretty long. 21:51:28 fizzie: as a new member, and i can only conclude, therefore, the government have 22:07:23 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:10:32 hmm, I wish DeepMind would stop saying things like "AlphaZero learned Chess in 9 hours"... and rather say "Alpha Zero learned chess using 20MWh of electricity" 22:11:04 they said it once 22:11:42 (not sure what the real number is, but it should be in that ballpark) 22:12:01 (then arranged for every reader to repeat it a billion times) 22:12:16 I try to figure out how to best implement the batch notification in my Netsubscribe implementation. I thought to use a SQL table to keep track of what to do (so that if it fails once, you can try again later, by remembering where you left off) 22:12:38 -!- imode has joined. 22:12:38 LKoen: they have two whitepapers stating this and a number of press releases... so the number is larger than one. 22:13:17 Do you have some ideas? 22:13:50 I am not sure exactly what to put in this table; I tried to figure out but then decided it might not do and try to think of something else. Or is there a better way? 22:14:07 oh no! I think she's a witch! <-- wat 22:14:37 yeet. 22:16:58 fun related number: The human brain consumes about 175kWh a year (assuming 20W, which estimate is backed by the Internet (tm)). 22:20:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:21:50 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:22:02 oerjan: well, she floats on water 22:22:08 sorry no 22:22:13 I don't want to start quoting Monty Python 22:22:17 that rarely leads to anything good 22:23:00 I'm actually just listening to Hansel und Gretel, the opera, and it's about witches 22:25:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:32:02 . o O ( grand surprise ) 22:32:18 though, actually, plural? 22:33:14 my hon. and learned friend fungot, Ki tett itt csontból, húsból törvényt? 22:33:15 b_jonas: on the hon. and learned friend the member for manchester, gorton, and also, i have to some of the people i have been seeing the build-up. seven of the new state pension, the member keeps it uppermost in the prime of our life, and the government and the government of the uk that the government avoid the failings of the uk energy. more have come to the house to do the same is not the will, respect the 62% who were to ben 22:33:18 of course there's the movie... Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters 22:35:31 I see you like the government a lot 22:44:56 my hon. and learned friend fungot, Kopasszák le fejüket a hegyek, / s tegyék lábadhoz most nyírt erdeik? / Folyását a folyó fordítsa meg? / Borítsa búza vadon vidékeid? 22:44:56 b_jonas: a new one, might feel that the title, the new uk government funding, the challenge, and the public, 22:45:06 it is a challenge, yes 23:20:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:28:48 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:30:57 -!- nchambers has joined.