< 1541030771 792241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is most forgettable. < 1541030773 718841 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is most forgettable. < 1541030793 811996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg password < 1541030795 282455 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11646:2018-11-01 learn The password of the month is most forgettable. \ 11622:2018-10-02 learn The password of the month is wearing shorts despite the weather \ 11619:2018-09-05 learn The password of the month is ripe for picking \ 11587:2018-08-03 learn The password of the month is alphanumer1c. \ 11584:2018-07-20 learn The password of the month will be short-lived. \ 11570:2018-06-03 learn Th < 1541030813 352828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, you live in the future. < 1541031101 386885 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541031384 363452 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541031492 585310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541032235 877758 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541032936 355812 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541033753 75966 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541037430 116614 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541037465 580725 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541039728 753474 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541044187 367174 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1541044612 965847 :moonythevampire!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moonythedustpile < 1541046908 623754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read somewhere that DEC VT300 can emulate a Tektronix terminal. Is that why xterm does, too? < 1541047589 453339 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :happpy halloween. < 1541047622 955870 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonythedustpile: happy sunrise? < 1541049562 46595 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541050419 808979 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mad that my language doesn't have lambdas. < 1541050556 583591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is that? If you are mad of such thing, can you add it? < 1541050803 481344 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lmao I'm the author of it. < 1541050871 929770 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's gonna take some work. < 1541050962 941889 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/_xfe/text < 1541050997 966353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that code actually works. my tests include `map (add 1) (evens (s (s (s 1))))` < 1541051080 508355 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I can't reduce it fully due to the way I perform evaluation. so I have to define a function that does it for me. unless I whip up some lambdas. < 1541051103 644460 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can do, I just don't know how to do it _well_. currently my interpreter is 236 lines of python code and I haven't had to touch it save for a couple of lines. < 1541051190 174454 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeling kind of hopeless tbh. < 1541051325 278570 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't wanna add any new features. this just works via term rewriting and pretty dumb subtree matching for variables. < 1541051343 50594 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do plan on porting my interpreter to C, then assembly, then to verilog or VHDL. < 1541051456 917388 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wanna make sure I have my design right. < 1541051578 735964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I adhered to UTC < 1541052357 394244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up a scheme card of Magic: the Gathering that is based on the Scheme programming language. < 1541052415 85005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have a thing that takes a block argument that can early-exit, what sort of thing can it be? < 1541052445 86120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A macro, maybe, I don't know? < 1541052449 131968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like an answer other than "macro" and other than "continuation", if it exists. < 1541052468 637662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I don't know that answer. < 1541052474 863218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A block isn't a function because it can early-exit. < 1541052511 795367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that < 1541052519 96229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that you know that < 1541052554 16937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a block can be given a type. < 1541052558 895077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can even have input and output types. < 1541053733 227424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what it is called in Magic: the Gathering when you do stuff in order to affect whether or not there is priority during the cleanup step? < 1541054154 438622 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: branch? < 1541056002 815153 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:1452:56a3:2faf:4cc9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541057218 765408 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved my problem using a more idiomatic solution: just unpack the damn arguments. < 1541058070 651085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ? < 1541061319 63873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: whoa, you're mentioned in https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.cwi.nl/~paulv/papers/average.ps < 1541061540 140761 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, both authors were my supervisor, so no surprise there < 1541062148 909240 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1541062150 976361 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/glanderco/status/1024103665265770496 < 1541063193 241254 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 3 months old < 1541066612 769729 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly NICK :FireFly < 1541067181 310683 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541068275 443568 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let coerce = id Data.Profunctor.Unsafe..# undefined in appEndo (coerce (succ :: Int -> Int)) 1 :: Int < 1541068277 932610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1541068439 506293 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: maybe but it still scaryyy > 1541068662 912310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Madbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58167&oldid=58166 5* 03Gamer 5* (+24) 10/* Example */ > 1541068881 440496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Madbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58168&oldid=58167 5* 03Gamer 5* (+450) 10 > 1541068991 813387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Madbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58169&oldid=58168 5* 03Gamer 5* (-159) 10/* Hello World! */ > 1541069018 414787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Madbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58170&oldid=58169 5* 03Gamer 5* (+159) 10/* Hello World! */ < 1541069550 324514 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541070436 526538 :Spooktober!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Spooktober is over. < 1541070470 880360 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1541072011 365357 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541072167 855590 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.223.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541072167 987537 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.223.16 QUIT :Changing host < 1541072167 987583 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1541074007 201641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AsciiDots14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58171&oldid=58151 5* 03Gamer 5* (-3) 10/* Samples */ < 1541075517 108192 :BowserFromThe80s!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator NICK :Bowserinator < 1541075747 480904 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 600 seconds < 1541079647 994887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541079685 893306 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541080764 563510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07IRP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58172&oldid=58157 5* 03Gamer 5* (+162) 10/* Examples */ < 1541082336 351309 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541082911 484687 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541083316 382267 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541083741 728143 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541086414 814955 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1541086435 601162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LOLZ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58173&oldid=55612 5* 03Gamer 5* (-20) 10 < 1541086798 125958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541086826 363988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541087056 408736 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1541087295 462314 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541088074 598909 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541088227 235128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1541089385 13313 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541091492 475814 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541091957 843207 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541095057 583103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1541095296 419578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58174&oldid=58158 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+2) 10ginorst > 1541095372 470040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58175&oldid=58174 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-9) 10Policy < 1541097025 766581 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1541097330 962796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541097802 877279 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1541100636 798153 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:1452:56a3:2faf:4cc9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541107793 652708 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1541109099 719597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1541109177 55226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58176&oldid=58175 5* 03ZM 5* (-2) 10Undo revision 58174 by [[Special:Contributions/Oerjan|Oerjan]] ([[User talk:Oerjan|talk]]) L00P: those are, in fact, zeros < 1541109287 772806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1541109287 902546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1541109287 902597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541109802 203636 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1541111228 383097 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1541111235 444131 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541112091 582988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541112991 391630 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541113812 894391 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541113885 119325 :moonythedustpile!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541113956 673351 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541113977 751500 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541114021 915992 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541114797 669643 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1541114808 70315 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1541115097 442795 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.217.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541115270 787758 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541115272 456042 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.217.27 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541115280 719207 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.27 QUIT :Changing host < 1541115280 719317 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541118125 300360 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541118179 383186 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541119223 45778 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541119308 353213 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1541119593 93361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58177&oldid=58176 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+2) 10Undo revision 58176 by [[Special:Contributions/ZM|ZM]] ([[User talk:ZM|talk]]) (No fair undoing *all* the moves. Also, we have a tradition to sort some "1337" names as if they were spelled normally, but maybe not consistently.) < 1541119710 707392 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541121455 219913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541121979 381404 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1541121984 964397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541122807 539188 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a emulator for the MC88110. Someone please slap me. < 1541123479 959664 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap moony < 1541123480 89810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves moony , so no slapping < 1541123491 389743 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't work < 1541123547 440939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541123574 686204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541123595 815407 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to uncook Magic: the Gathering puzzles? < 1541124058 340640 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541124259 461427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541124788 350449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541125775 220267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1541126166 141311 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfjatvxpkyaqfixz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541131201 926333 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1541131653 479045 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541131821 747477 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541131828 479510 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1541136552 370648 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541137488 326438 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541137547 859234 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1541138689 373377 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmevfhggbkgmonzq JOIN :#esoteric < 1541144087 42778 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541144099 783723 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541151871 308454 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmevfhggbkgmonzq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541161701 759406 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wyimnwmruiopstmc JOIN :#esoteric < 1541165597 350450 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541166323 276897 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171362 311491 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171371 99520 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD has an assembler for the MC88100. yaaaay < 1541171382 930749 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i have a reference point that I can use to crosscheck everything now < 1541171420 862959 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/syuu1228/openbsd-src/tree/ca0d3073d059b7237a1392dde772265698465272/sys/arch/m88k <<< Reference point! :D < 1541171892 326157 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171899 951002 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hello. what do you mean by uncook? < 1541171945 923087 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi wob_jonas < 1541171998 458758 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi moony_. why are you writing an emulator, and are you at least making it very efficient and microoptimized? < 1541172065 136371 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on it, yes < 1541172077 335911 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1541172091 11819 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also have to make it accurate as possible, because otherwise it'd be a crappy emulator of an obscure system, and no-one else would be there to make a good one < 1541172108 371054 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you also putting on some impractical constraints that make the micro-optimization hard to do and a waste of your time? < 1541172137 774570 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no. Cache emulation in this case, for example, is actually easy and fast (Only 128 lines), so a modern CPU can easily pull it off. < 1541172161 795891 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the entire 88k cache, with it's status info, easily fits into a modern CPU's cache < 1541172204 701404 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, emulating 192 different registers with only 16 registers is kinda hard :P (two sets of 64 control registers, 32 GPR, and 32 80-bit FPR) < 1541172242 717947 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU only runs at 50MHZ, but it runs 2 instructions per cycle optimally, so I have to be careful anyways < 1541172247 979477 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to run at full speed accurately < 1541172288 849075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :w-b_jonas: I mean to make the altered version of the puzzle which avoids the cook, which should keep the proper solution or pretty close, and should also try to retain the theme if possible < 1541172309 73090 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if you're curious, here's the MC88K serie's manuals: http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000 < 1541172349 699650 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: do you have any programs that run on that MC88110 that you'll be able to run with this emulator? < 1541172370 404955 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, de-cheese the puzzle. I see. < 1541172456 232884 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541172487 292089 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: do you have any programs that run on that MC88110 that you'll be able to run with this emulator? < 1541172496 956708 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OpenBSD, duh < 1541172503 34512 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD has a port, hence why i noted it < 1541172506 634632 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1541172510 167097 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use it as my testcase < 1541172531 595163 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has an assembler and GCC port avaliable, but i'm rolling my own anyways because i can < 1541172567 254421 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541172583 888914 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: you have checked that Bellard doesn't happen to have an accurate emulator for this system, right? < 1541172596 762207 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked everywhere :P < 1541172610 624588 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, if it runs openbsd, then it has to have a gcc port < 1541172646 191112 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbsd is implemented mostly in C < 1541172655 607702 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1541172662 46210 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean that it's a well-maintained recent gcc port of course < 1541172675 163450 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some gcc port that could more or less compile some stuff at some point < 1541172693 517518 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a wizard knew how to invoke it < 1541172694 113625 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main difficulty with the 88k is that it supports multicore, but the way it does it is unusual these days: Each "core" is a seperate physical chip < 1541172711 35162 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not that unusual really < 1541172723 260915 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we only had to put them on the same chip because clock frequencies got faster, < 1541172729 464206 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1541172748 453704 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm showing my age < 1541172763 983228 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in highschool, so maybe you are. < 1541172785 462729 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean sure, these days in mobile phones you put everything in one chip, memory and all < 1541172824 915358 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that didn't make sense back when I was young, because individual chip designs cost a lot to start to make, and once they started they could make as many as they wanted for cheap, it's making the design that was hard < 1541172863 236201 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also why ROMs were a bit expensive, so video games could only be produced in large numbers, and there were no large enough volatile memories yet < 1541172873 861771 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so casettes and disks were eventually used as a workaround < 1541172894 456213 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by disks I mean floppy disks, and eventually CDs < 1541172922 368598 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for the famicom < 1541172955 821301 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldest thing we have in my house is a gamecube < 1541172957 609342 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541172979 991563 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a famicom or other old hardware either < 1541172995 883379 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not as a physical system at least, I can run emulated old systems obviously < 1541173012 846386 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a floppy drive anymore, I got rid of it < 1541173028 265948 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, this computer I'm sitting at is old, but it's nowhere near that old < 1541173073 316533 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only like 8 years old or something < 1541173093 266597 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a great top quality computer back when I got it < 1541173098 152101 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's very obsolete < 1541173122 679080 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish i remembered my XBOX Live password for my 360 < 1541173137 112934 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my account has Marble Blast Ultra installed, and guess what: Ultra is no longer for sale anywhere < 1541173143 8187 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1541173165 276122 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a copy in an illegal way then, if you're sure you've already bought it legally < 1541173179 959820 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use their customer service to reset the password of your account < 1541173204 437741 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally don't know anything related to the account anymore < 1541173208 7400 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the email used < 1541173209 164775 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably only need to know your name and password and ask them on phone on workdays during business times < 1541173209 253549 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1541173215 395697 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1541173226 224670 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/name and password/name and birth date/ < 1541173230 168886 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that how it works? < 1541173237 137822 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idk, I'll check when i get home < 1541173342 462699 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but getting an illegal copy of the software from the internets might still be simpler < 1541173362 554698 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1541173391 965498 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, you'd better ask someone who actually knows something about nintendo or game systems, rather than me < 1541173407 471766 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nintendo/microsoft/ < 1541173412 74166 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1541173414 14061 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter much anyways < 1541173422 531197 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only own a nintendo game boy, no other game system < 1541173443 735946 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, at home I only play video games on a PC < 1541173445 613364 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marble It Up!, a spiritual successor to the Marble Blast series (Gold and Ultra), is coming out for PC soon < 1541173455 399285 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've played quite a lot on other people's game systems of all brands < 1541173458 316563 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's enough for me < 1541173482 411075 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all brands < 1541173501 987592 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played on nintendo, sega, and sony, but not on microsoft ones IIRC < 1541173526 675937 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"spiritual successor" is ... somewhat broad. < 1541173574 107417 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the game has the same concept and design as the original Marble Blast games, even people from the original dev team helped < 1541173581 36561 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say it's similar to what Sonic Mania is for sonic. < 1541173727 168828 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a TRUE successor only because GarageGames, the company that owns Marble Blast, doesn't seem to want a new Marble Blast game, probably because of the now small market < 1541173733 415372 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541173774 769791 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1541173777 468587 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? keenlist < 1541173778 366791 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast < 1541173801 933276 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the owner of the brand isn't selling the rights, despite that they have no use for it < 1541173811 443010 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1541173832 191010 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of one good officially sanctioned games, there are only a lot of fan-made games < 1541173876 80656 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of them made by such a game developer genius as Tom Hall < 1541173912 507952 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the good ones are just modifications of the original games with new graphics and levels < 1541173936 101622 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is certainly not what Tom Hall would do if he was allowed to make a new game < 1541173951 596873 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, they can still be good games < 1541173956 902672 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not the same thing < 1541174493 77309 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: at some point, please publish this emulator thing somewhere public, and tell this channel about it too < 1541174504 548129 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on it < 1541174534 289067 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my silly ideas was to try and make it connect to this channel and let you run stuff on it :P < 1541174572 116858 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. I've done that once, but I haven't written the emulator, I only wrote the connection, and I ran it on a side channel because it was too noisy < 1541174582 298475 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. that DOS bot :P < 1541174600 892096 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was so curious i made a lot of said noise :P < 1541174610 459106 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to point to schmorp's two crazy projects each one emulating an old system with a cpu: http://blog.schmorp.de/2015-06-08-emulating-linux-mips-in-perl-1.html http://blog.schmorp.de/2015-11-10-emulating-vt102-hardware-in-perl-1.html < 1541174689 257611 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad i learned perl recently < 1541174694 16329 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like perl now. Send help) < 1541174696 799766 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to this year's IOCCC winner by Christopher Mills http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2018_mills < 1541174711 469464 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: I can't really. I hate perl, but I can't stop using it < 1541174723 549232 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely look at ioccc/2018/mills if you haven't, it's very crazy < 1541174730 580123 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 has a lot of nice things < 1541174741 597367 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6? ok, now you need help < 1541174752 943886 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 is bad for you, stop. < 1541174767 751340 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1541174768 246908 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1541174773 536377 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 is slow < 1541174783 986962 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use it for quick tasks, like i would with perl < 1541174785 798394 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you tied in a room and is someone focing you to type "Perl 6 has a lot of nice things" under duress? can you give an address? < 1541174809 604836 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well i'm an insane codegolfer. Sorry, i'm sitting in a study hall typing that, no duress here < 1541174811 487318 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least a country < 1541174828 927597 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find writing x86-64 fun. < 1541174840 952204 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there are charity organizations offering help for addiction issues available in your country < 1541174853 654284 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is literally prototyping the cache lookup function at this second < 1541174859 380846 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION in x86-64 < 1541174864 322899 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no problem with writing x86_64, that can be fun < 1541174873 989814 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing it can be awful < 1541174875 36632 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541174879 489017 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only what you said about perl 6 that scares me < 1541174889 119649 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1541174905 696098 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, me too, and I'm seeing a psychologist about all the issues I have < 1541174917 48468 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, to prove my insanity: The main reason i'm writing this massive emulator project is so i can do codegolf with it < 1541174934 526345 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you want an _accurate_ emulator. that's a good reason < 1541174944 111928 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541174965 20811 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and a real MVMe board, or designing my own board, would cost a fortune. So real hardware is out of the question < 1541174980 645136 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone gifts me one haha (Like that would ever happen) < 1541175036 907001 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure! I'm a software guy, I think writing custom software on very powerful PCs is the solution to everything, and often consider custom hardware projects crazy when it seems like they could be replaced by a five line perl script < 1541175051 734541 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, i plan on learning how to make custom hardware anyways < 1541175061 378022 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not perl, whatever, a software solution on a PC they already have < 1541175065 401327 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe someday i COULD make a real system using the 88k if i want to < 1541175077 200580 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, a 88110 only goes for $20 on ebay, because no-one wants them < 1541175078 966349 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm tolerant, just because I think they're crazy I won't try to stop them < 1541175088 596513 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's their free time and they choose to spend it however they like < 1541175111 626063 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a useful hobby to get into hardware and later design actually useful big hardware, one that does something that you can't just do with a simple program on a PC < 1541175114 945631 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what happened to #asm < 1541175119 350700 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's become invite only < 1541175126 392003 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to check if cmp was slower than test < 1541175142 966443 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: it's forwarded to ##asm < 1541175153 366880 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1541175162 853721 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ##asm says i'm banned. I blame freenode mask. < 1541175165 101981 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1541175179 114788 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1541175223 749578 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see which ban mask you match < 1541175236 132387 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1541175252 924691 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: ":card.freenode.net 367 nc_jonas ##asm *__*!*@* card.freenode.net 1535082016" < 1541175261 733633 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1541175262 703068 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: renick yourself < 1541175272 276088 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 NICK :moony2 < 1541175301 661259 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that help? < 1541175333 25681 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541175412 673838 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that usually IRC allows you to query the ban list even if you're banned from the channel < 1541175426 312602 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you meet this sort of thing you can check this yourself too < 1541175431 938904 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I don't want to help, just saying < 1541175457 120577 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541175529 297703 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, no, I don't know how to de-cheese M:tG puzzles. you can try to ask ais523 < 1541175621 773720 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, I should continue doing the Oracle dump thingy < 1541175627 228662 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541176045 972260 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541176479 222899 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541176666 623465 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541178551 190818 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541178717 504492 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1541178889 517826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Temporal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58178&oldid=58076 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (-265) 10On second thoughts, I'm making it more like Underload. < 1541179229 57027 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541180239 881779 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541180264 863123 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1541180287 407710 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541182516 896836 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1541184538 305327 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541184568 562114 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1541187752 884826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541188023 455614 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a time-travelling language < 1541188109 91960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it seems at least a part of these should be equivalent to languages abusing amb or other such nondeterministic retcon stuff < 1541188209 654424 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I occasionally unforgot about Riemann surfaces: these time-travelling programs could essentially run not on a linear time but some more exotic like two interdependent universes < 1541188267 488045 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1541188288 309991 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’m going to the past to give myself an idea < 1541188350 363766 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1541188350 454801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1541188657 43995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lambdabot oh dear / it’s such a thing unclear / to me if you time-travel / or not; I hit the gravel < 1541188745 102906 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice and all / if you could send me something / from future times to now / because I’ve lost the rhyme < 1541189479 807071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some television shows have popup messages. Can you get rid of them by recording from multiple channels and then some computer program can be used to fix them? < 1541189788 316902 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541190433 318664 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541190495 902645 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought myself a frame for eyeglasses! I had my doubts, but I think I chose right. Unless this one is unsuitable somehow, I shall have a fancy new pair of eyeglasses ready by christmas 2018 the latest. < 1541190661 654598 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541194350 422060 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, i have a good idea of what i do need and what i don't for a fairly accurate emulator (Mostly™ cycle accurate). But first, nostalgia trip. < 1541194538 403560 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: what peripherials are you planning to support? < 1541194564 694440 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial, SCSI drive, and maybe a display. < 1541194570 988880 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really just adding stuff as needed < 1541194572 317796 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541194586 537818 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow nice < 1541194601 173566 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no floppy or casette? or the floppy or casette is on SCSI? < 1541194618 971875 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MC88100, like it's cousin (the M68k), uses memory mapped peripherals, so i can just put less accurate peripheral emulation in another thread and call it a day < 1541194631 293701 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCSI drive <<< yes < 1541194631 888112 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can have a SCSI floppy drive, and you probably don't even need to make the implementation for that yourself. < 1541194669 131521 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory mapped peripherials still need some magic by the emulator for controlling the memory mapping < 1541194712 407976 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, but the emulator otherwise doesn't care much about what the peripheral IS < 1541194792 827618 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1541194807 215024 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily the peripherial and the OS do most of the work < 1541194815 283282 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541194843 624065 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, serial line is definitely practical, it's easy to get working and a good way to interact with the program running in your emulated box < 1541194854 628885 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I used serial console for termbot too < 1541194882 218576 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why you couldn't use the many DOS programs that insist on communicating directly through keyboard and display < 1541194901 734388 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most DOS programs are optimized for that, they don't do both because that would cost resources < 1541194939 905827 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, compared to the time needed to look up memory mapping info and emulate the cache, saying "ok forward this to a async buffer on a IO device" is cheap as hell < 1541194966 73090 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these programs I ran were written in the PC era, when a working display (CGA or monochrome) and PC-like keyboard was standard for computers < 1541194971 434474 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for DOS computers that is) < 1541195002 257417 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the display and keyboard (and mouse) is just more versatile than a serial console < 1541195007 707577 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast too < 1541195017 853842 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure < 1541195066 772092 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: so have you found good enough technical documentation about the CPU and motherboard that you can use for writing this emulator without having to guess too much? < 1541195085 365867 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CPU's own manual is great. :P < 1541195098 73151 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a paperback copy of the MC88100 manual in my possession. < 1541195112 999198 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1541195124 67237 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the motherboard, including memory and IO connections? < 1541195134 271668 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVMe boards will be a lot harder. I'll probably have to guess at it using what openbsd has in code < 1541195161 344756 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of memory management does this cpu have? < 1541195174 614658 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Block management and Page management are both supported < 1541195185 52641 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be interchanged < 1541195214 828771 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fast switch between user and system mode or between processes with different page tables? < 1541195222 177722 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, memory interface is where difficulty no 1 comes in: the CPU can swap between big and little endian at runtime with a single instruction < 1541195233 265778 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, you can change the page table address < 1541195248 712360 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how large are the virtual address space and the physical memory address space? < 1541195266 412493 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical is 32bit. < 1541195283 438335 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual is also 32bit. Entire system is 32bit besides the ""GPU"" and FPU :P < 1541195304 244664 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1541195332 559179 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, FPU? < 1541195353 580981 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPU supports 80-bit precision. (That means i have to use x87 instructions, ewwww.) < 1541195372 644272 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the FPU required? can't you just omit it and have the software or OS emulate it? < 1541195384 279810 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and run mostly software that doesn't need it) < 1541195386 994050 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's built onto the chip < 1541195397 998471 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's required < 1541195401 647524 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1541195404 988314 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's off by default tho < 1541195423 995909 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can pretend it doesn't exist for a very short amount of time :P < 1541195430 661322 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't technically _have_ to use x87 instructions, unless you want fast emulation for the FPU. you might choose to run programs that don't use the FPU much, in which case you can just do something slow. < 1541195448 297111 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna try and make the FPU fast. :P < 1541195455 49535 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1541195456 503377 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably ignore it early on tho < 1541195464 710260 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be difficult or easy, depending on what the FPU is like < 1541195479 54693 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its stupid arcane details too, the ones that rarely come up < 1541195495 601585 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still make an accurate emulation (whether in software or hardware) a pain in the ass < 1541195517 208725 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on emulating the MC88110, because suprisingly enough it's *easier* to emulate than it's predecessor. You can pick out details about it here: http://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000/MC88110UM_88110_Users_Manual_1991.pdf < 1541195538 667480 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's predecessor doesn't have the ""GPU"", but it has *more* annoying to emulate quirks < 1541195616 153376 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have that middle age feature where there's a mandatory delay so the result of an instruction can't be read by the next instruction, does it? < 1541195622 403595 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because i have to care a lot more about processing order on the MC88100, because the FPU and the integer unit both share the same register file for some bizzare reason. < 1541195649 358034 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, no. It has pipelining that handles that cleanly < 1541195684 734667 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FPU and integer unit sharing a register file isn't a big problem. that's what new x86_64 cpus do too with its SSE registers < 1541195747 585969 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a problem when there's only one "slot" to use on said file. It's an exclusive or, either use the integer unit or the fpu, OR you can just have lots of pipeline stalls and lose CPU time < 1541195749 366493 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SSE register ops are still mostly in different execution units, but it's the same register file and sheduling and decoding pipeline and memory/cache interface < 1541195776 559718 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the instruction set viewpoint it's different registers, but they're effectively handled by the same register file now in newer cpus < 1541195805 763383 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, SSE instructions can offset the loss by their vastly greater throughput < 1541195824 17090 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't use to be that way in older x86_64, there used to be two or three register files, separate for index registers, integer vector registers, and float vector registers, but they got away from that in later archs < 1541195845 596433 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: not just greater throughput, but also in some areas better choice of instructions too these days < 1541195857 915666 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also go look at the MC88100's bus < 1541195882 844528 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has two buses, the P and C bus. Each bus has to have it's own external MC88200 MMU in order to interface with the same data bus/ < 1541195884 611878 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're effectively the new general purpose registers, and the RBX etc series of 16 64-bit registers are the index registesr < 1541195925 304147 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not completely like that yet, there's still advantage to using the index registers for some general purpose computations because of the instruction encoding sometimes, but it's tending more towards the vectors < 1541195982 822012 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, in some rare cases you even want to use the vector registers to spill data into them from the index registers when you run out of the 16 index registers, because it's often handled more efficiently than the L1 cache or stack cache < 1541196035 530048 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when intel/amd gives us dedicated instructions to spill indexes into vectors, i'll be happy < 1541196035 801226 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are even very rare pathological cases when it's worth to spill data into the MMX registers in some crazy loops, though you probably specifically have to engineer the right kind of problem for that to come up < 1541196059 968737 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: they do have specific move and insert and uninsert instructions already, with sometimes short encodings < 1541196070 449830 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doublechecks < 1541196085 118601 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont remember x86-64 by the back of my hand, so i'm a derp sometimes :P < 1541196088 923562 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1541196097 892222 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look at new enough documentation, not ancient stuff < 1541196104 271532 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps < 1541196110 572093 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong here too < 1541196115 904603 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/ < 1541196119 585314 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are such instructions, but I can be wrong about the details < 1541196136 670229 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I look at the official Intel docs and Agner Fog's docs < 1541196147 253369 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to look at AMD's docs too, but these days prefer the Intel doc < 1541196151 455204 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :felix's are literally just autogenned from intel docs < 1541196160 421189 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with nicer formatting < 1541196183 9911 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, you were correct. http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/PINSRB:PINSRD:PINSRQ.html < 1541196183 753541 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure, but is it recent enough? does it at least show AVX2, even if not AVX512 yet? < 1541196202 953093 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently based on the may 2018 edition of intel's docs < 1541196204 655843 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes :P < 1541196219 222562 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: those too, but also look at the 64-bit move between index and XMM instructions < 1541196244 807775 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll look at this felixcloutier docs, or at least bookmark it and look at it later < 1541196262 573017 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, it's more of an instruction reference < 1541196274 657675 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really freaking handy, much easier than sifting through a massive PDF :P < 1541196321 297190 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PDF is not ideal, but together with other sources (like Agner Fog's manuals) it's good enough, and it's at least accurate and right from the mouth of those who make the CPU < 1541196341 878995 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Intel PDF has at least one typo, I even wrote an email to their support that they'll probably ignore < 1541196446 407372 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: the other relevant ones are http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/MOVD:MOVQ.html , which move between an index register and XMM register, zero-extending, < 1541196542 359023 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just for note wob_jonas, the < 1541196563 393608 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :88k's FPU is quite similar to x86's < 1541196573 905244 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so emulation will be easier < 1541196590 482173 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, also PINSRQ and PEXTRQ < 1541196630 376276 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonyt: to the 387, or to the 8087? there's a stupid crucial difference that can like triple your speed if it's the former. < 1541196646 624855 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quite similar" is not enough if you want accurate emulation < 1541196665 183449 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1541196710 130392 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats said difference? < 1541196736 451914 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly that the relay 8087 handles the sign of infinities in a stupid way < 1541196751 119509 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some other minor ones too but they don't matter that much < 1541196762 249935 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it's more similar to the 387 < 1541196766 702862 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 387 can actually emulate the 8087 behavior, but only if you set some crazy flag that no sane software will set < 1541196848 999354 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the 387 actually has the sanest floating point behavior with respect to NaN representation that I've seen among CPUs. I wish other cpus had the same semantics for NaNs (but not other things, eg. I don't want a register stack or all that stupid state change and 80 bit variables and relative lack of non-floating-point instructions), < 1541196878 371162 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'd like the 88k's FPU < 1541196890 335767 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000/MC88110UM_88110_Users_Manual_1991.pdf section 04 < 1541196894 230163 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alas no, every 'cking architecture has to invent its own NaN representation behavior that's incompatible with everything else, so there's at least four different relatively sane behaviours out there, and that's not counting the ones that just throw their hands up and don't even try to handle NaNs < 1541196911 965381 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because of compatibility, none of them can just change the behavior of course < 1541196971 818269 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I probably won't look at that right now, though I may bookmark it, but in any case I'd like the best behavior in modern fast CPUs that run in my computer, not in some old thing. I can emulate the right behavior too if I can afford some speed loss, I don't need a 88000 for that. < 1541197001 82765 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mc88110 just fires an exception when a source operand is a NaN, which i think is fairly sane < 1541197030 824461 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly diffs between nonsignalling and signalling, as well. (Signalling NaNs can have a usermode handler) < 1541197035 571030 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: yes, but can the software mask the instruction? < 1541197039 171958 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1541197041 448211 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mask the exception? < 1541197046 885122 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because usually that's what you want < 1541197051 873354 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just check for NaN at the end < 1541197058 726676 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually using the exception is a rare case < 1541197060 111961 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doublechecks < 1541197070 559639 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most CPUs, you can < 1541197104 232207 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the CPU has defnite behavior of the result of the operation, sometimes even different result depending on whether the exception is masked or not < 1541197155 899423 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCFP masks the NaN exception. (TCFP stands for Time Critical Floating Point) < 1541197159 197702 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. for an overflow exception, the result is infinity of correct sign from outside the exception, but the correct value with a constant added to the exponent for the exception handler (they get the result in different ways so there's no ambiguity) < 1541197207 258376 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can mask the NaN exception normally as well < 1541197207 392124 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x87, SSE, and MMIX all have individually maskable optional floating-point exceptions, they just differ in what NaN representation rules they have and some other details < 1541197220 31516 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCFP mode just disables all but 2 exceptions < 1541197237 217158 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't recall what AMR does, I looked at it very little, and mostly at the non-floating-point parts) < 1541197253 652231 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: right, that's the usual thing they do < 1541197271 42503 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, all FP exceptions are maskable besides 2 < 1541197295 818213 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two being things that only trigger when truly invalid behavior, like a unimplemented floating point instruction, is requested < 1541197322 530377 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE2 also has two flags for not handling denormal values (a flag for reading a denormal as zero, and a flag for giving a zero result instead of a denormal), and a speed hit when it actually has to handle denormals < 1541197339 266027 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or SSE or whatever < 1541197348 363977 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC88110 has a similar thing, but i dont see any notes about denormals having a speed it. < 1541197350 67484 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hit < 1541197352 303954 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care when it was introduced between those < 1541197378 901712 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: if there's a flag then there's probably some sort of speed hit, or was in older versions of the CPU with a compatible instruction set < 1541197388 547110 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't introduce a flag otherwise < 1541197401 828559 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to not have the speed hit but keep the flag for compatibility of course < 1541197446 596711 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nvm no flag < 1541197448 947207 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just misread < 1541197456 446069 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even support denormals :p < 1541197469 851919 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it DOES fire an exception when they're encountered so software can handle it tho < 1541197540 874358 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1541197576 481008 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of its long history, x86_64 has a lot of historical features that you no longer need to use if your code only runs on newer cpus, but that the cpus must support for compatibility because they made sense on older cpus < 1541197606 533958 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ at least motorola was nice enough to write the handler for you, they provide it in a software package that is no longer on planet earth haha < 1541197645 575792 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. there are pairs of equivalent SSE2 instructions for bitwise operations on XMM registers that differ in speed depending on whether they're between integer or floating-point vector instructions, the cpu needed to transparently transfer the value to another register file if you used the wrong one, but there's no longer a separate register file < 1541197662 363034 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.212.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541197662 542876 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.212.42 QUIT :Changing host < 1541197662 542912 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541198159 472633 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: that's a pity, but no denormal handling in hardware is a compromise that I can understand < 1541198256 686722 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :motorola wanted cheap chips, with the technology back then, it made sense < 1541198289 489124 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in chips today where I want the best behavior, because we could afford it if it weren't for historical compatibility issues < 1541199025 918681 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1541199040 341257 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the most annoying limitation of x86_64 is because of historical compatibility: we can't have more than 128 kilobytes of L1 data cache, because more than 8-way cache would have too much latency, and we can't dispatch cache by more than modulo 4 kilobytes of address space, because we have to be historically compatible with 4 kilobyte sized < 1541199040 431612 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric : pages. < 1541199102 201489 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger page size would be more efficient, but we can't get rid of supporting the smaller pages until some existing software depends on it, and it would be too impractical to have two entirely different L1 caches together, you'd probably have to duplicate the rest of the CPU with it < 1541199124 567881 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we won't have a larger L1 cache until we throw away the entire x86 historical compatibility < 1541199232 877804 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is harder to replace than the instruction set. x86_64 managed to get rid of at least some parts of the instruction set in true 64-bit mode, and you could get rid of more, but you can't get rid of the paging without throwing away all the compatibility < 1541199325 343430 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the good news is, that will probably happen within my lifetime, the way how fast these computer architectures change < 1541199348 941977 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be happy to learn about the details of a better architecture used in everyday consumer PCs < 1541199369 265366 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some computers use ARM, admittedly, but even that is rather old) < 1541199393 50282 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and x86_64 is used in the highest performance ones, which is the ones that matter for this) < 1541199493 212687 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541200086 261175 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541200216 778492 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541200413 44519 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541200436 105324 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201508 228056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541201631 329770 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201727 356662 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541201727 534519 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.76 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541201727 792366 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.104.76 QUIT :Changing host < 1541201727 792412 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201758 6242 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541202075 419167 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202126 303592 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541202164 862595 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you happen to know where I can find good reviews of current non-smart mobile phone user interfaces? I want to find the right phone to buy for myself. I have some candidates, but want to find reviews by people who care about similar interface sutff as me. < 1541202197 261667 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cheaper and faster than to buy a phone and find out that it sucks after a few days of playing with it, like it happened with these stupid nokias. < 1541202231 648911 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks like I can't find any good reviews. < 1541202283 405453 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202283 657396 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.235 QUIT :Changing host < 1541202283 657441 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202288 281454 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might My current candidate is the CAT B30 dual sim. It is one of these stupid rubber-padded hard to break things with a small display, but if that's the extra I have to pay for to get a sane interface, it's OK. < 1541202419 887513 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other candidates are the Myphone 6310 and the Myphone 3310. < 1541202502 968316 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the 3310 is named such that the number is the same as a very popular new nokia phone (which is named of an older nokia phone, this is really stupid), so it's harder to search for it < 1541202619 666277 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541202634 424480 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541202678 663108 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally can't find reviews, so unless someone here can pipe in with some useful info, I'll probably just buy a CAT B30 and try it. < 1541202691 781888 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202701 525196 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely not perfect, but I can't get a perfect phone, I know that. < 1541202711 982163 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need one that's not too annoying. < 1541202720 391396 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541203528 51408 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541203578 876243 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541203612 798306 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1541203621 437984 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1541203627 358335 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1541203628 528837 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1541203999 870686 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541204407 20908 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541204442 791622 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541205057 681404 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541205406 714679 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541205677 620889 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I'm looking at the 88110 manual PDF that you linked. It says that the result of adding or subtracting two NaNs is a certain fixed positive NaN (although that NaN isn't the same indeterminate NaN that x87 and SSE use, it's a different one, but a fixed one. < 1541205695 192826 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. < 1541205704 987265 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is yet another behavior, definitely different from the x87, SSE, and MMIX behaviors, although I'll have to double-check what the heck ARM does. < 1541205726 50724 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P No-one can agree on how floating point even works < 1541205754 447875 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though this is different, it's at least a reasonably sane behavior on its own actually, saner than the SSE or MMIX behaviors when taken alone. < 1541205780 324130 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1541205783 870609 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was probably cheaper to implement than the x87 NaN behavior < 1541205806 245495 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :still means i have to put a check around every floating point subtract haha < 1541205861 430391 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the MC88110 has a fairly clean execution model, which makes it easier to emulate < 1541205887 180102 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also returns this different NaN if you subtract infinities or divide zeros. < 1541205888 95524 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus all instructions are the same size, which means that less info has to be passed around when performing JIT to keep track of the IP < 1541205934 867636 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: no, you don't have to. the NaNs are propagated further, you only have to check at the end of the calculation or at certain branches, though you can probably write most branches in such a way that it Just Works doing the right thing. < 1541205977 301915 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the graphics instructions are similar enough to the SSE ones that i can just use SSE for some of them < 1541205987 543400 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :altho the pmul instruction will be very problematic < 1541206010 86811 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It allows values in one spot to overflow into the other, a very strange behavior) < 1541206050 872058 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, can you think of a good way to make a optimized sequence for executing the PMUL instruction? :P < 1541206081 625788 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I actually like their idea that this special NaN value is binary 0 11111111 1100000 00000000 00000000, again unless for compatibility that's better than the x87 or SSE one, which is the one with the smallest mantissa, 0 11111111 1000000 00000000 00000000, < 1541206125 476142 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the difference doesn't matter too much actually < 1541206129 887935 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, the 88k is a nice processor, it's kinda a shame it flopped lol < 1541206161 853828 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: huh what? what PMUL instruction what? I don't get the context < 1541206208 445271 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See section 5: Graphics Unit Implementation < 1541206343 485764 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: wow, this one looks arcane < 1541206361 128683 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yea < 1541206365 91769 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pmul will be a tough one < 1541206379 697979 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's common in graphics code, so making it fast is a must if i implement a display peripheral < 1541206410 749380 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: wait, I'm trying to figure out how that instruction actually works < 1541206465 225256 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "The contents of register pair rS1:rS1+1 are multiplied by the contents of the register rS2 as if they were full 64- and 32-bit numbers, respectively" < 1541206469 740976 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound too bad < 1541206484 9691 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1541206489 445585 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remembered it diffirently haha < 1541206516 431221 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i remembered it, it could overflow ALL boundaries, not just a halfword. < 1541206517 928729 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION derps < 1541206548 494864 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they were quite clever when they made the 88k's bitfield instructions < 1541206565 741336 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be used to replace what would be like x86's shl/shr instructions < 1541206584 241913 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as such, said equivalent instructions don't exist, because they're unneeded :D < 1541206861 698747 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement it on x86 with a 64-bit index register MUL instruction if you free up RDX and RAX, or with a 64-bit index register MULX instruction on new x86_64 cpus, or < 1541206903 128173 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pure XMM registers by two separate multipliers and like two to four extra instructions depending on the cpu I think. < 1541206912 95898 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAX through RSI are liekly going to be free in my design < 1541206916 293510 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean two separate multiply instructions, because there's no single wide enough one. < 1541206919 929084 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/liek/like/ < 1541206945 15589 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're so common, so keeping them as scratch makes sense < 1541206952 788980 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure, but you also need to transfer one operand to RAX and get the result from RAX < 1541206967 200963 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's extra moves < 1541206975 835455 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1541207045 533309 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also as i use an AMD cpu, i'm going to follow along with there recommendations and avoid overusing the SSE registers in code that doesn't gain much from them. (Speculative execution on the CPU uses the registers when they're not being used (0'd out) by the currently running code) < 1541207067 161755 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will this be a pure interpreter, or are you planning to JIT-compile some instruction sequences to pure x86_64 later, or something in between (compiling to an intermediate representation that is)? < 1541207082 384993 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT. JIT's a must < 1541207085 738668 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: read intel's optimization manuals < 1541207109 388707 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there's separate x86_64 optimization manuals for different generations of the processor cores < 1541207115 764722 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1541207139 733524 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I also recommend Agner Fog's manuals, they tell a lot about optimizations, probably more than you already know < 1541207150 662827 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.agner.org/optimize/ < 1541207181 604466 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously get the latest version of the x86_64 architecture manual, of the optimization manual, and of Agner Fog's manual, since you have an internet connection < 1541207246 919805 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: wow. but you'll make it work without JIT to debug out the errors at first, right? and throw in the JIT later < 1541207254 389515 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541207259 516466 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good < 1541207268 158884 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining the two is actually the best choice < 1541207276 5959 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be interested to see what you get, and probably other people too < 1541207283 383174 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well certainly < 1541207285 561761 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the 88k itself is capable of JIT, and constantly recompiling JITed code with a JIT is stupid < 1541207330 971384 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT is something people tend to overuse, and I don't think you'll fall into that trap < 1541207346 425354 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1541207355 741483 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i often walk about blindly on a new moon < 1541207402 196885 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :threading and GPU computations too, and for threading in particular IMO the problem is that people try to put code to parallel threads at too low level, when generally it would be better to make much larger chunks of computation to parallel threads, such as entire processes or something, in most of the cases they meet < 1541207443 114341 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Powder Toy is a case where neither of those have been used and they're urgently needed haha < 1541207464 44996 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire game runs on one thread, maybe a second to run gravity sim in parallel but thats about it < 1541207475 872433 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most notable case was when I was encoding a dozen video files at the same time, on a machine with a dozen cpu cores and two-way NUMA, and at first I didn't notice that the video encoder assumed I'd only encode one or two and tried to do each encoding in a dozen parallel threads because that's how many cores there were < 1541207496 235073 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only noticed because the memory usage was so high that it ran out of memory, which was lucky < 1541207502 652502 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd have had trouble figuring out what's wrong < 1541207548 385739 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily the encoder does have an option to not do that, and use only one thread for all the main work < 1541207607 598525 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very annoyed when people try to demand threads or GPU or JIT as silver bullets even in cases when they don't help < 1541207634 347971 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is part of why I'm interested in x86_64 and efficient computation, especially in the single-threaded cpu case < 1541207646 91922 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the case when I don't do threading or GPU computations or JIT < 1541207675 218346 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also try to know how to use threading or processes the right way though < 1541207700 941990 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TPT could genuinely benefit from it tho :p It also needs a lot of optimization in general, but laziness and mario kart reigns supreme < 1541207715 573609 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could take a crack at it < 1541207716 355882 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1541207757 627471 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh no, I'll do it with my own hobby project, or work I'm payed for < 1541207794 28277 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could also probably do with rewriting the game's graphics to NOT be a freaking software renderer, but again we're all lazy < 1541207816 647107 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shoddy software renderer at that 🤔 < 1541207832 273309 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "we"? < 1541207853 620246 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Powder Toy is a multiple person open source project. I'm just some random contributer :P < 1541207863 431510 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1541208110 22264 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541208133 977381 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Ørjan < 1541208334 503456 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening moony < 1541208377 249843 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1541208440 168108 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :œrjan™ < 1541208792 351907 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541209647 959109 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541211994 373818 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541212286 92732 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats enough procrastination for me. time to actually begin work on the emulator < 1541214776 438800 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Thanks for all the advice :) < 1541219553 852382 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541219660 945938 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1541221464 700958 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541222663 195970 :TellsTogo!3ecd6084@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.96.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541222868 557778 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wyimnwmruiopstmc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541223737 244657 :TellsTogo!3ecd6084@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.96.132 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541224409 854922 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nplyhutdvxzgbqkz JOIN :#esoteric > 1541228502 63881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58179&oldid=58020 5* 03Gamer 5* (+80) 10/* General Ideas */ > 1541228573 953734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58180&oldid=58179 5* 03Gamer 5* (+58) 10/* General Ideas */ < 1541232060 272102 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541232076 331175 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541234453 347027 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541236225 999622 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1541236247 838354 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541238468 565891 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nplyhutdvxzgbqkz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541240275 834689 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1541241893 472371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58181&oldid=58118 5* 03Gamer 5* (+14) 10/* D */ > 1541242008 439207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58182&oldid=58107 5* 03Gamer 5* (+85) 10/* General languages */ > 1541242861 579760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9funge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58183&oldid=57886 5* 03Gamer 5* (+72) 10 < 1541244163 717521 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1541244235 155882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58184 5* 03Gamer 5* (+1190) 10Created page with "'''TPLHBPTBOTEW''', which is an acronym for '''This Programming Language Has Been Proven To Be On The Esolangs Wiki''', is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by Us..." > 1541244355 641457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Gamer 5* 10moved [[02TPLHBPTBOTEW10]] to [[```` ` ` `]]: i accidentally created the page < 1541244843 324742 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541245487 454783 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541245636 362573 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.209.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541245636 503141 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.209.135 QUIT :Changing host < 1541245636 503185 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541246323 230864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541246569 503709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: amb is quite different from time travel, a) you can reliably simulate it on a classical computer, b) it's impossible to create a paradox with it < 1541246584 538768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is just that it's inefficient < 1541246687 188771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a vaguely related subject to that of CPU emulators: there's something I'd like to do and I don't know how easy or difficult it is < 1541246751 104926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to get a decent proportion of Debian running under WebAssembler (ideally compiling the packages from source), with a custom kernel (i.e. not Linux) that just handles the system calls that are meaningful in that context < 1541246786 495372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining that the filesystems would be a) a read-only filesystem that downloads the files from the Internet, b) a read-write filesystem that's just in-memory and disappears when you close the browser tab < 1541247502 644021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541247575 923164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541248944 118085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks, yes, amb alone seems inequivalent < 1541249181 969219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is different, but related: are you aware of https://bellard.org/jslinux/ ? < 1541250425 997244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1541250440 422095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I believe it emulates the entire CPU, and thus is likely fairly inefficient > 1541250457 549392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07```` ` ` `14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58187&oldid=58185 5* 03Gamer 5* (+3287) 10 < 1541250489 746681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it does, which is why I wrote that it's different from what you suggested. < 1541250554 799887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the technical description mentioins emscripten which apparently can deal with translating C to Javascript; it could be interesting to investigate its limitations. < 1541250582 172751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to run emscripten for the last 10 minutes < 1541250586 603481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version packaged in Ubuntu seems to be buggy > 1541250713 592980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9funge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58188&oldid=58183 5* 03Gamer 5* (+5) 10 > 1541250818 960028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07```` ` ` `14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58189&oldid=58187 5* 03Gamer 5* (+216) 10 > 1541250890 62004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03Gamer 5* 10moved [[02```` ` ` `10]] to [[TPLHBPTBOTEW]] over redirect > 1541250890 68927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03Gamer 5* 10Gamer deleted redirect [[02TPLHBPTBOTEW10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[```` ` ` `]]" > 1541250949 977739 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07```` ` ` `14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58192&oldid=58191 5* 03Gamer 5* (-26) 10Blanked the page < 1541250954 765154 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541251030 840214 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so all the user level packages would be directly compiled to webassembly (or a combination of webassembly and javascript and interpreters), and nothing would emulate a cpu? < 1541251070 866949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that's the idea < 1541251074 651834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how hard or easy this would be < 1541251093 717569 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much of debian would you want this to run? would you want programs connecting to an X11 that runs in the same browser somehow? > 1541251111 530340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02```` ` ` `10]]": Author request: apparently created by mistake < 1541251137 709371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'd initially be happy as a single-user system with a command line < 1541251162 952677 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: writing a suitable kernel is probably possible, because people have ran simpler unix programs on many very different kernels already < 1541251200 513748 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about compiling packages to the browser, because I'm not familiar at all with modern web client-side scripting, and don't intend to learn it either. < 1541251219 980344 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may use a little client-side scripting in webpages, but it's all so simple that I don't need modern tech for it. < 1541251258 169034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, webassembly is the obvious thing to use < 1541251267 519446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to find information about the toolchain < 1541251281 579776 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of modern CSS and MathML features I do want to learn a little though. Especially how you can sanely put MathML and fallback HTML code on the same webpage in a sane way such that browsers will show the Right One of the two automatically, ideally even if javascript isn't ran. < 1541251456 852989 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask the rust guys on irc server irc.mozilla.org channel #rust for pointers about webassembly, they know a lot about it because they make a webassembly backend for rustc (the compiler) < 1541251469 125030 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might know about the toolchain < 1541251484 233172 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly ask in channel #rust-offtopic in the same place if you only care about non-rust toolchain < 1541251513 888376 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also try asking in ##workingset on freenode, but that channel is small < 1541252085 585367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, some web searches imply that the Debian/Ubuntu emcc is a) very old, b) has a trigger which causes it to not work correctly (the current leading theory is having clang installed, which I do, but it may be unconditional) < 1541252437 999833 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvlxzilzuzpgzjuk JOIN :#esoteric < 1541252596 787327 :wob_jonas!b03f18ed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.237 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541255597 668005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1541258477 634393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58193&oldid=58190 5* 03Gamer 5* (+2285) 10 > 1541258516 999888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58194&oldid=58193 5* 03Gamer 5* (+4) 10/* Commands */ > 1541258680 887650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58195&oldid=58194 5* 03Gamer 5* (+163) 10/* Language Overview */ > 1541259055 796530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58196&oldid=58195 5* 03Gamer 5* (+27) 10/* Commands */ > 1541259089 503857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58197&oldid=58196 5* 03Gamer 5* (+5) 10/* Concept */ > 1541259118 466750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58198&oldid=58197 5* 03Gamer 5* (-4) 10/* Computational class */ > 1541259273 183533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58199&oldid=58198 5* 03Gamer 5* (+30) 10/* Concept */ > 1541259288 329425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58200&oldid=58199 5* 03Gamer 5* (+2) 10/* Concept */ > 1541259330 598866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58201&oldid=58200 5* 03Gamer 5* (-4) 10/* Concept */ > 1541259625 100335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58202&oldid=58201 5* 03Gamer 5* (+84) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1541259805 981649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TPLHBPTBOTEW14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58203&oldid=58202 5* 03Gamer 5* (+2) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1541262045 682946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58204&oldid=58181 5* 03Gamer 5* (+19) 10/* T */ < 1541262821 581256 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541262855 360350 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541262952 855721 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541262964 427472 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541263999 115833 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1541266325 36997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58205&oldid=58182 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10q cemos beefor u < 1541266540 531077 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( math papers don't look that way. ) < 1541267871 89843 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541267935 342212 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I bought a CAT B30 dual sim mobile phone. I'm setting it up and will test it. So far I think its user interface is better designed than the Nokia's, not that there aren't downsides, but I'll try to tell more when I tested it. < 1541267988 75342 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I'll adopt it immediately, that depends on how well it fits in my current belt loop mobile phone holder bag. < 1541268014 873812 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm not sure if I'll adopt it as my main phone immediately. < 1541268039 302799 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I also have to buy a screen protection foil, but I won't delay using the phone to when that one arrives. < 1541268139 687092 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly it sometimes seem to lag noticably, in that there's a delay of deciseconds until it reacts to a button press. That sucks. < 1541268216 229115 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: is this from the company that made the grandmaphone that impressed you? < 1541268238 623864 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, that company is MyPhone < 1541268246 177883 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1541268273 445220 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a phone that is protected against water and mechanical shocks, from a company that makes such phones. < 1541268319 574882 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that also comes with having a sane interface, because the people who buy that kind of phone don't care that much about a fancy modern but unusable interface. < 1541268362 745153 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because of the protection, it has a smaller display, and it costs a bit more, but it's still relatively cheap. < 1541268403 220511 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I looked a bit at the Myphone non-grandma feature phone, but it seemed to be worse < 1541268447 344134 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one seems to have an even more terrible Hungarian UI translation, though I've only seen a very small sample of translated messages before I changed the UI language to English. < 1541268742 500306 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541269017 283594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to see a library and API to execute WebAssembly programs from a native C code. < 1541271043 862728 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1541272111 913077 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541272178 516540 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with this mobile phone is that I don't seem to find a way to make the calendar display change to show weeks with Monday as their first day. That will make the calendar rather error-prone for me to use. < 1541273403 140892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should need one that you can reprogram with your own program instead of the one included in there already. > 1541273798 734439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Timwi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58206&oldid=47169 5* 03Timwi 5* (+22) 10 > 1541273820 16679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Timwi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58207&oldid=58206 5* 03Timwi 5* (-54) 10 < 1541274083 879174 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : {?} Enchantment - Saga ;; I, II, III--Create a 1/1 white Bird creature token with flying and banding. ;; IV--Target permanent gains protection from a color of your choice until end of turn. < 1541274092 315854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you would think of them? < 1541274130 410857 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: at what cost? < 1541274185 711286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what cost < 1541274239 332180 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check the comp rules for how Sagas work... they're too new, and didn't seem useful, so I don't remember. < 1541274429 909155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abilities with roman numbers are triggered abilities, that trigger when a counter is added that increases it to that many or more. A turn-based action during your precombat main phase adds a counter. It starts with one counter, which triggers ability I. State-based actions get rid of it if it has as many or more counters as the last one if its abilities are not on the stack. < 1541274541 502153 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. I read the rules. they're strange < 1541274543 634984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This turn-based action is after setting a scheme in motion, if any. I don't know if this is your question, but before the rules were released this was my first question about it.) < 1541274590 2169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the rule that the Saga is sacrificed as a state-based action, and think it should have been done it simply dies. < 1541274656 802179 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not my question, but sure. < 1541274816 24456 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, in order to be more consistent with the rules for schemes and phenomena, that state-based action should consider any triggered ability rather than only chapter abilities, I should think; it seem strange that they do not match) < 1541274956 795250 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that might be deliberate, because a saga is an enchantment so it's possible to have it gain all sorts of triggered abilities by using other cards, while they probably won't have other triggered abilities in their oracle text, while a plane often has other triggered abilities in the oracle text and it's hard to make it gain an ability because < 1541274956 935526 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's not a permanent < 1541274978 279638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, maybe that is why. < 1541275011 64324 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For schemes this might not matter, I don't know. < 1541276102 290280 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name aura flux < 1541276105 757280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aura Flux \ 2U \ Enchantment \ Other enchantments have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this enchantment unless you pay {2}." \ UL-C < 1541276994 813444 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541277424 1140 :wob_jonas!b03f1887@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.135 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541279264 402938 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541279283 375280 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541280140 840023 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541280278 327416 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541281454 801994 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541281600 339254 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541287743 289946 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541288031 378777 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541288610 501954 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.177.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541288751 335077 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541288751 604915 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.177.83 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541288751 979415 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.83 QUIT :Changing host < 1541288751 979465 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541290737 402941 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541290765 495872 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541293188 543652 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvlxzilzuzpgzjuk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541294361 206650 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541295521 19109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is the oldest telephone number still in use? 2600 suggested that it is the telephone number of Hotel Pennsylvania (which is "Pennsylvania 5000", in the 212 area code), but do you know of any others? (This was in reply to a letter they received asking this question; the asker had something but it wasn't old enough.) < 1541295605 707518 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more than likely the oldest assigned in NYC, though granted it's hard to be certain. < 1541295721 473355 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEnnsylvania 6-5000 would've been assigned circa 1930 though? < 1541295924 152128 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's few other alternative possibilities: systemic numbering schemes were only rolled out on a larger scale later, and NYC's local scheme only fit in because it happened to already have the 3-4 digit scheme that was put in place in the rest of the US. < 1541296011 929392 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a few other populous cities did the same. < 1541296058 127799 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'd *guess* that if PEnnsylvania 6-5000 isn't the oldest continuously assigned phone number, it's at least the oldest in the US? < 1541296808 56669 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541297314 164170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe that is what it is < 1541301187 493667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a (currently untested) SQLite remote virtual table module. I am now writing documentation of the protocol. < 1541301199 426513 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? > 1541303179 784500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58208 5* 03Cortex 5* (+20) 10Created page with "Mainly just a reader" < 1541305428 596063 :esowiki!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541305468 704070 :esowiki!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric > 1541307082 294810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58209 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1463) 10Created page with "(this article is under construction) TEPCS (Tilde, Exclamation Point, Caret, Semicolon) is an incomplete programming language created by [[User:Cortex]] at around midnight, N..." < 1541307861 979430 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1541310235 888612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58210&oldid=58209 5* 03Cortex 5* (+79) 10 > 1541310268 764560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58211&oldid=58210 5* 03Cortex 5* (-2) 10 > 1541313157 864010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58212&oldid=58211 5* 03Cortex 5* (-30) 10 > 1541313675 713037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58213&oldid=58212 5* 03Cortex 5* (+64) 10 < 1541314955 695818 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pffxwqcnuhwdqwvb JOIN :#esoteric > 1541316615 334048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58214 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+10011) 10Created page with "= Keg (Ke)yboard (G)olfed = ''Keg'' is a stack-based esolang with condensability as well as simplicity and readability in mind. Its main purpose is to be used for golf..." > 1541316669 259303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58215&oldid=58214 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+95) 10Added categories > 1541316779 67128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58216&oldid=58204 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+10) 10Added keg > 1541317374 863259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58217&oldid=58215 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+30) 10 > 1541317625 247423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58218 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1361) 10Created page with "W is a programming language with various unnecessary, redundant, and useless commands. If the compiler encounters an error, the source code is encrypted into the SHA1 hashing..." < 1541318386 202104 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541318550 165347 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541320870 946935 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjbtbwzlyoyyhdgb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541321945 252654 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541322526 712166 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1541324094 522271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58219&oldid=58208 5* 03Cortex 5* (+7) 10 < 1541325163 423465 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pffxwqcnuhwdqwvb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1541325174 293214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58220&oldid=58216 5* 03Cortex 5* (+12) 10 < 1541325550 199611 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1541325774 358395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58221&oldid=58213 5* 03Cortex 5* (+0) 10 < 1541326325 985367 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541326948 121019 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541326995 729916 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1541327078 670928 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 QUIT :Client Quit > 1541328997 351111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58222&oldid=58218 5* 03Cortex 5* (+471) 10 > 1541329157 540582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58223&oldid=58221 5* 03Cortex 5* (+42) 10 < 1541329889 369422 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541329893 302542 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how old is that one? < 1541331928 548210 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541332078 699670 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541332078 892268 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.215 QUIT :Changing host < 1541332078 938871 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541332129 137580 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: re Russian cursive in your video. I think I already mentioned how one of the tricks used that was non-obvious to me is that the letters л and м start with a peak close to the baseline, unless they're at the start of a word, which is how м clearly differs from и. < 1541332145 146358 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is non-obvious to me because Hungarian cursive never uses low peaks. < 1541332251 503784 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: But I have a different question. At the start of the letters и, г, ь (and probably others), what decides whether you start the letter with a high frowny mouth going into the down straight line, or with a high peak going into a down straight line instead? < 1541332326 820356 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't understand how the heck ъ works, but I think if I knew the answer to the previous question, that would become more obvious. < 1541334671 699074 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541335097 126912 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hm hm let me think… < 1541335209 115861 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This probably applies to more letters, like у, ш, ч etc, it's jsut и that's the most common and ь that's the most confusing to me. < 1541335255 20707 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I understand the question, I thought these two cases are the same and maybe I just wrote them unclearly < 1541335428 148149 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Hungarian cursive, the normal way for letters that start with a downstroke like u, i, n, m, j, p, v, w is to connect with a high peak if the previous letter ends low, or with a high smile going into a peak if the previous letter ends high. A high frown instead of the peak could be used instead, and is seen in some styles, but I don't really like < 1541335428 236125 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that because it makes writing more ambiguous in some cases. < 1541335504 688269 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbgcfsfoohckzysk JOIN :#esoteric < 1541335512 463085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like that applies here too < 1541335614 335886 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some styles, the letter s and r also starts with a peak with possibly a high smile before, but the style I learned uses an alternate r which actually starts with a high frown going into a straight line down, and for a top connection from before, such as "or", that becomes a high wave (flipped tilde). The letter z also starts with a high frown in < 1541335614 455813 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric : some styles. < 1541335694 208121 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: maybe you use a high smile for и at the start of a word to make it more distinct from an м ? < 1541335773 927807 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start I’d begin и straight with a downstroke, as there’s nothing before it < 1541335796 696798 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that works too < 1541335841 29529 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I said something helpful :D < 1541335852 504688 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still... I should check the video to find cases when you start и or г etc with a high frown. That seemed to occur several times, and didn't seem to be random sloppyness. < 1541335901 902959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I’ll try to analyse these if you find them < 1541335978 364431 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe I’ll write something static on paper and scan it, if you’d have some suggestions < 1541336006 244591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be easier and also clearer < 1541336027 395291 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll also look for instances of ф because it's just too rare and I don't understand how it works, but that's less important because ф is distinctive enough that it's easy to recognize in any context. < 1541336103 985649 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't understand why you wrote the uppercase Т in two different stroke orders, but that doesn't seem important. < 1541336137 318262 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care much about the uppercase letters, writing them in this fancy cursive style seems excessive anyway, I don't really do that even for Hungarian cursive. < 1541336178 815857 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cursive is just not designed to accomodate uppercase letters in the fancy style people invented for it, half of the uppercase letters in Hungarian cursive don't even work. < 1541336263 748795 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: in the В page, you write ьг with a high frown connecting the г < 1541336293 930825 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sorry, in the Б page < 1541336357 236663 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Г page, the standalone г is like that too < 1541336375 374997 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter for a standalone letter of course < 1541336558 748761 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I also don't understand why you wrote the uppercase Т in two different stroke orders, but that doesn't seem important. => usually I don’t write Т in cursive style, so I’m undiscipled in this case < 1541336608 977450 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, makes sense. Most uppercase letters just look stupid in this sort of cursive. They're just inherited simplified from back when people wrote more fancy cursives. < 1541336629 166790 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing them in this fancy cursive style seems excessive anyway, I don't really do that even for Hungarian cursive. => yes, the same for me, maybe except some letters that are simpler to write than sans-serify variants < 1541336646 480567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love to agree < 1541336647 874691 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, "A" specifically < 1541336667 777617 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uppercase "A" is quite common in Hungarian because of the articles < 1541336684 113534 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it happens to work out decent in two different cursive ways < 1541336687 31359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now I’ll watch that part < 1541336771 466924 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some other uppercase letters work out because they happen to be just the lowercase letter grown up AND have a low connection. The ones with a high connection like "O" or "V" don't work well because you can't connect the next letter to the uppercase high connection. < 1541336796 117693 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"R" also works out fine, the same as "A". < 1541336876 142654 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in the video, the И page is not so clear, but it looks like you're trying to write the г with a high frown. < 1541336924 704169 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Й page also definitely has a г with a frown < 1541337013 508455 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means I have to look for a г with a peak, because maybe г normally starts with a frown. < 1541337040 726365 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think so < 1541337096 991618 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’ll be back several hours later I think < 1541337459 8235 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Щ page has frowning г too < 1541337564 335941 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see! you definitely have to write ьг with a frowning г, because otherwise it would look like ы < 1541337712 463041 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I just realised I had misread “frowning” as “smiling”, hm < 1541337764 461027 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have confused them somwhere too < 1541338099 627768 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no more letter г, so it looks like you always wrote it frowning. Though now I wonder how you'd write ог < 1541338821 717265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that: https://i.postimg.cc/4ytgjWhV/Screenshot-1607.png < 1541339307 831073 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1541339885 560728 :wob_jonas!b03f1858@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.88 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541348059 397168 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541348866 378231 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541349001 225409 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541349626 123216 :TellsTogo!d458f9f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.249.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541351373 767250 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxkzhckhddbgencw JOIN :#esoteric < 1541354507 390066 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541354598 845773 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541354615 949436 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas you watching the logs? < 1541354640 187100 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the tradeoff of 4 YMM registers be worth it to keep all 32 GPR accessable at a moment's notice? < 1541354681 664814 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Aka so i don't have to worry about the GPR falling out of cache) < 1541354807 141249 :TellsTogo!d458f9f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.249.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541355222 660012 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541355256 875046 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My remote virtual table extension currently does not support encrypted connections, nor supporting authentication. Now I try to figure out, how should I fix this? Should a proxy be used? < 1541357003 762746 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541357201 646756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541360922 181537 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1541362696 114562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58224&oldid=58223 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1) 10 < 1541363508 392241 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541363511 999071 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: ping < 1541363517 313156 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2hi < 1541363720 896193 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re remote virtual table, I recommend to allow two things: for the same computer (but different process), use a PF_INET named socket, which you can put in an access-controlled directory, or use the sendmsg/recvmsg SO_PASSCRED to check the uid and gid of the other side of the connection. For remote connections, < 1541363845 212990 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an optional SSL/TLS connection through a tcp socket, and expose the connection handle of the underlying SSL/TLS library (there's more than one option for that) to the user process so they can configure whatever options, including a sending a client certificate, and verifying from server/client side that the other side has one of a set of allowe < 1541363845 307233 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d client/server certificates. < 1541363979 383162 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I can't really tell, this depends on (1) the architecture of that CPU you're emulating, (2) the host cpu you require, (3) how exactly your emulator works, how much it needs other registers, how often does it need to free registers to call a non-emulated function, etc. < 1541364038 34228 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I don't know enough of that cpu you're emulating and the programs running on it to even guess. < 1541364051 312448 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1541364057 110055 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541364060 503743 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try it, maybe. < 1541364100 895688 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reserving entire YMMs is very hard, because the calling conventions say that the top half of all YMM registers are caller-saved, so every function you call will modify them < 1541364130 324818 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really need many XMMs at all < 1541364149 221462 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it literally would not hurt one bit to use 8 of the XMM registers for storage < 1541364151 307238 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: yes, but you don't have enough caller-saved XMM registers either, do you? < 1541364157 375608 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1541364166 50095 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: it's not you, it's all functions you call from libraries < 1541364191 527032 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM using a nonstandard CC, which helps a bit. A lot of the library functions i'm going to use adhere to said custom CC < 1541364203 449394 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me check how the calling convention goes exactly (in Agner's docs; there's other official docs out there like the 64-bit ELF docs that explain this, but it's nigh-unreadable) < 1541364211 569059 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the ones that dont, they arn't called very often, and wrapping them with saving isn't hard. < 1541364282 631846 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541364377 199100 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541364377 288104 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: this isn't on windows, right? on x86_64 unix, every XMM register is scratch, so the caller has to save it < 1541364412 703445 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: this isn't on windows, right? on x86_64 unix, every XMM register is scratch, so the caller has to save it. < 1541364418 889211 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1541364429 226407 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, i'm on linux < 1541364432 788927 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows smells < 1541364443 491210 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't have a windows machine to dev on anyways even if i wanted to < 1541364622 906384 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: you'll probably have to have the JIT track which of those four YMM registers (if you decide to use YMM for this that is, I'm not sure that's a good idea) are swapped in to registers, and which are in RAM (presumably usually L1 cache) at which point. < 1541364652 128911 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and load them into register if you need it more than once, then swap it out to memory when you have to call external code. < 1541364697 480326 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets ugly, whether it's worth may depend on how long stretches of compiled code you expect to be able to run without interruption < 1541364702 772548 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1541364858 268076 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you expect to be able to compile jumps safely? is self-modifying code rare on this arch, and is code and writable data generally separated to different 4k pages, so you can detect writes to code by setting the pages containing code that you have compiled to read-only and trapping the fault? < 1541364899 719659 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you said you have to run complex code for memory accesses because you're emulating the cache, right? < 1541364908 197150 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case that won't be necessary, luckily. < 1541364916 188447 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just have your memory emulation handle it. < 1541364921 448423 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want a slow and a fast mode. < 1541365063 269096 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1541365410 819101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58225&oldid=58224 5* 03Cortex 5* (+60) 10 < 1541365432 220618 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541365503 731253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a PF_INET named socket work and how is SO_PASSCRED work? < 1541365540 313522 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, for local connections I mean a PF_UNIX named socket < 1541365553 476973 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1541365558 640104 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how that works at least? < 1541365588 11863 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the man page explains it < 1541365589 847614 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sendmsg/recvmsg is ugly, it has a somewhat inconvenient API, although it's one you'll probably like < 1541365617 910086 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bad part is only the rare case you'll almost never meet, which is reading multiple control messages at the same time, that's hard < 1541365693 359451 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically with setsockopt thingies you can subscribe to various control or debug information about a socket, and then recvmsg gets as many of them as fit in the buffer, so if you get more than one type, you need some very stupid alignment calculation because they were too lazy to put a next link pointer in the messages < 1541365751 787459 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for AF_LOCAL sockets, probably only two kinds of control messages make sense: < 1541365783 27618 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOL_RIGHTS and SOL_CREDENTIALS, and you only need the latter here < 1541365977 250718 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The relevant docs are http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/setsockopt.2.html , http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/recvmsg.2.html , http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sendmsg.2.html , http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/unix.7.html , and perhaps also socket(7), socket(2), bind(2), listen(2), connect(2), accept(2), etc. < 1541366012 794835 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a parallel set of docs in http://man.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi which are organized differently, the interface you need is the same, but you can choose which docs you prefer. < 1541366082 851643 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not all interfaces are the same, but they don't differe in unexpected ways, it's just that certain obscure APIs are present in only some operating systems or versions, but they'll nicely give compile error or runtime error from the calls when you call them. < 1541366092 192525 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any differing interfaces are relevant here.) < 1541366104 951255 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read the the documents socket(2), bind(2), listen(2), connect(2), and accept(2) (I have them on my computer, so do not need to access those webpages), although this SQLite extension uses socket() and connect(); it is only the client and not the server. < 1541366125 709939 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I can just link to the pages on the web more easily than what's on your computer < 1541366148 684673 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... but you'll have to write a server too to try it, right? < 1541366162 746236 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I did write a test server program in JavaScript to test it < 1541366200 122172 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, as for SSL/TLS, I haven't worked with any SSL/TLS library directly, and there are like five different ones, at least three of which are still supported, and I don't know enough about them to be able to help < 1541366232 70676 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's GnuTLS, NaCL, and two incompatible major versions of OpenSSL I think < 1541366239 401422 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probalby more that I don't know about < 1541366264 858365 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international cornucopia for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1541366276 112173 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international cornucopia for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1541366320 766902 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I write "the international pharmacopœia" instead? < 1541366339 203004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you should write that or not < 1541366449 107263 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly "cornucopœia" is apparently not a word > 1541366576 416474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Only Onion 5* 10New user account < 1541367188 629457 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I assumed you'd just write a server that exposes a set of tables from an sqlite database read-only in a way that your remote virtual table client can connect to it. < 1541367260 34044 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And perhaps saves some log or debug information. < 1541367280 934507 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I could do that (and it could be useful to do), although at first I just wrote a simple testing program. < 1541367293 525475 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1541367386 377778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This remote virtual table protocol does support writable tables too (as long as the primary key is no more than one column), although of course the server may wish to provide read-only data anyways. < 1541367429 714014 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, but I'm more interested in read-only. < 1541367505 943496 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is this extension somewhere on your server? can I get an URL? < 1541367569 929960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. All of my SQLite extensions are in one ZIP file: http://zzo38computer.org/sql/sqlext.zip The file "sqlext_remote.c" implements the client, and "sqlext_remote.doc" is the documentation (including the description of the protocol). < 1541367581 323697 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's in a zip file. ok. < 1541367606 158119 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not in /textfiles < 1541367608 462046 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1541367610 459108 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in /textfile < 1541367827 42157 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sql/ directory isn't even in the gopher < 1541367839 413156 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's well hidden > 1541367902 488742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58226&oldid=58110 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+227) 10 < 1541367910 916915 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means there are at least three roots for this forest on your server: the gopher root (which leads to textfile/ and quizmenu/ ), "http://zzo38computer.org/sql/" , and "http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/" < 1541367913 579901 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These extensions are mentioned in the topic message for the #sqlite channel in Freenode IRC. < 1541368295 820206 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have thought to look there, but ok > 1541368581 45028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surreal FOREVER loop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58227&oldid=46223 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+25) 10Linked Zeno, as its main feature is essentially this. > 1541368704 264375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zeno14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58228&oldid=51801 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+41) 10Linked a page that seems to describe the same concept as the zeno loop. < 1541368804 825210 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, well, it's probably going to be necessary. the most efficient and fastest way to handle a JIT'd memory block being modified while it's executing is to let the block continue until a check comes along, and then discard whatever it did when it hits the check < 1541368824 948207 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means that i'll need a duplicate of the GPR and XR anyways > 1541368895 102351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58229&oldid=58217 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (-33) 10 < 1541368922 645451 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure, but only if the programs you have are modern and actually rarely write pages with code, and here pages means pages on the host OS, which will probably be 8k size < 1541368963 227244 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could waste some of the memory by leaving gaps in the emulated machine's memory as you map it to the host memory, but that's ugly < 1541369224 130922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the document of the protocol? Did you see if it is good? < 1541369277 816895 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1541369282 997039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541369286 965969 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... > 1541369605 270733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surreal FOREVER loop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58230&oldid=58227 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+2) 10 > 1541369618 376296 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zeno14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58231&oldid=58228 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+2) 10 < 1541369677 343119 :wob_jonas!b03f18f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.241 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1541369764 525353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58232 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+11233) 10getting these thoughts down in some form > 1541369765 704446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58233&oldid=58222 5* 03Cortex 5* (+198) 10 > 1541370267 286757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58234&oldid=58229 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+1) 10 < 1541370351 200710 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1541370724 233755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58235&oldid=58232 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+249) 10/* Quines */ link to Unary Quine > 1541371889 885264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58236&oldid=58180 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+19) 10/* Mathematics */ Brainfoctal is Gdel numbering > 1541373572 968041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58237&oldid=58235 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+212) 10Polyglots > 1541373620 949502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58238&oldid=58237 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1) 10/* Polyglots */ > 1541374171 66073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58239&oldid=58234 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+3) 10 > 1541374357 891317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58240&oldid=58239 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+95) 10 < 1541374530 789552 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1541374602 268039 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541374784 957125 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541374927 756826 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541375055 693198 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.217.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541375281 779355 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541375282 141388 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.217.128 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541375282 602080 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.128 QUIT :Changing host < 1541375282 602131 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541375543 398288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1541375657 590704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58241&oldid=58240 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+74) 10 < 1541376004 204184 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in < 1541376020 163712 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1541376032 112730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58242&oldid=58241 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (-2) 10 < 1541376233 979557 :wob_jonas!b03f18af@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541376236 742845 :wob_jonas!b03f18af@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1541376237 754262 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1541376242 966472 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting > 1541377194 979860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58243&oldid=58242 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+7) 10/* External Resources */ < 1541377262 269071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will play GURPS game tomorrow morning so if you bet what will be done then I can tell you tomorrow if it is good or not. > 1541377719 975052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58244&oldid=58236 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+35) 10 < 1541379299 268227 :wob_jonas!b03f18af@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.175 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1541380496 362283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58245&oldid=58244 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+108) 10 < 1541380759 964816 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541381602 219813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541384007 723461 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* alpine gets really annoyingly nagging when the imap server goes down for a few minutes... < 1541384037 740525 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only option i found for turning it off _also_ turns off pinging on new mail, which i want < 1541388342 764528 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541388855 970938 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541389027 709404 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541390392 786800 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: quiet, isn't it? < 1541390393 247243 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ( which is based on the same location < 1541390411 472244 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i'm not sure of that < 1541390412 130335 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorting misc. stuff is code that loops over each ip.... no? objects have some tags so returned value of ( dec 4) 5) fnord < 1541390440 734571 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: maybe. < 1541390441 445568 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are the odds?) worked on his system handles the reduction and multiplication of units in strings which is defined as a list ( list ' define... ( namedlet-body exp)) < 1541390472 874390 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 3:88 < 1541390473 840548 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: classes are c++, it's c/ c++ are used commercially, have a kitten." oh boy, now i can't leave until 1800 hours, and it's conceptually nice given that semantics for > 1541391685 306719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58246&oldid=58225 5* 03Cortex 5* (-29) 10 < 1541391744 267212 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1541396052 452756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58247&oldid=58219 5* 03Cortex 5* (+31) 10 < 1541396953 225867 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541396959 432892 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1541400577 906776 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541402972 791882 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1541407314 92891 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1541407351 561107 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1541408631 483802 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbgcfsfoohckzysk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541413106 678434 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541416970 198101 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541418460 790163 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541418513 684664 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541418513 936378 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.70 QUIT :Changing host < 1541418513 936415 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541419781 583431 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541419922 689704 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlfkerrifbqvvvrz JOIN :#esoteric < 1541423742 117050 :TellsTogo!3ecd5c2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.92.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541424405 128514 :TellsTogo!3ecd5c2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.92.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541424679 680148 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541425977 531279 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541426043 888806 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1541426473 989377 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541426626 884700 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1541427361 482535 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism. < 1541427519 484569 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541427937 172010 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541431023 305132 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541434280 247692 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541438527 135905 :Xor256!~Jabu@dyg4j3f9fghdjgy1wp3nt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1541438564 459011 :Xor256!~Jabu@dyg4j3f9fghdjgy1wp3nt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, I'm new < 1541438648 726301 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1541438786 509125 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Quit: This page is intentionally left blank. < 1541438849 449134 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mmcmgolnbfgtxasz QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1541438942 160878 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1541439729 768782 :Xor256!~Jabu@dyg4j3f9fghdjgy1wp3nt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language where a vector moves on surface which is answer to a polynomial expression < 1541439741 487528 :Xor256!~Jabu@dyg4j3f9fghdjgy1wp3nt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can alter variables on that expression < 1541441119 436662 :Xor256!~Jabu@dyg4j3f9fghdjgy1wp3nt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541441377 91644 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :laconic < 1541442874 749418 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541443679 758203 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541445022 222423 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541445076 123886 :josh5tone!~user@ip68-227-131-71.br.br.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1541445366 760959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Nulljester 5* 10New user account < 1541445396 303878 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1541445621 442611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58248&oldid=58226 5* 03Nulljester 5* (+169) 10 > 1541446848 346077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TBurnip 5* 10New user account > 1541447007 344349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58249&oldid=58248 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+205) 10 > 1541448953 873373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58250 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+1384) 10First Edition of the page good luck and god speed > 1541448977 881160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58251&oldid=58250 5* 03TBurnip 5* (-5) 10 > 1541449165 291743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58252&oldid=58251 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+4) 10 > 1541449264 94313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58253&oldid=58252 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+517) 10 > 1541449294 623969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58254&oldid=58253 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+20) 10/* Design Aims Proof Code */ > 1541449308 668663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58255&oldid=58254 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+5) 10/* This proves that our design aims are meet */ > 1541449371 68569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58256&oldid=58255 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+12) 10 < 1541449424 634225 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 > 1541449448 853976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58257&oldid=58256 5* 03TBurnip 5* (-4) 10/* Control Operator */ > 1541449480 851833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58258&oldid=58257 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+14) 10 < 1541451480 725109 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541452164 249473 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541452424 721687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1541452424 812056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1541452424 812103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1541454581 533354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58259&oldid=58243 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+112) 10 > 1541454622 632120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58260&oldid=58259 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (-32) 10 < 1541454743 677095 :wob_jonas!b03f1853@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541456201 231490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o > 1541456602 543442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58261&oldid=57952 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4300) 10add notes on computational class (believed TC) , and give more powerful examples < 1541456976 223297 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1541457965 98994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58262&oldid=58081 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+218) 10Add variant  < 1541459118 711831 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541459464 924255 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541460710 306462 :postno!postno@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-molbesspeeszzzrb JOIN :#esoteric < 1541460750 411042 :postno!postno@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-molbesspeeszzzrb PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1541461287 545069 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541461494 297446 :wob_jonas!b03f1853@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.83 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541461527 779830 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.127.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541461645 590931 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541461750 880390 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541461751 28736 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.127.135 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541461751 249771 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.127.135 QUIT :Changing host < 1541461751 249823 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541461830 907907 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541461960 776265 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541462285 812300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541463351 407830 :wob_jonas!b03f1853@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541463352 272727 :wob_jonas!b03f1853@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.83 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20181105.html < 1541463353 108557 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found < 1541463358 600836 :wob_jonas!b03f1853@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.83 QUIT :Client Quit < 1541464071 461782 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de PART :#esoteric < 1541464510 203520 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541464546 236354 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541464905 768902 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541465349 582036 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1541466517 999564 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting > 1541468215 770468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Anguish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58263&oldid=47065 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+61) 10Added categories. > 1541468466 124454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Anguish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58264&oldid=58263 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+0) 10 < 1541469184 418210 :postno!postno@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-molbesspeeszzzrb PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1541469910 558811 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541470000 748465 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541470621 240605 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-etwbpqvvdokthmtn QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541470643 744504 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-omormhipzbtvcmwg QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541470812 184892 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541470919 281737 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541472479 972845 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rgzvidikprxpncvh JOIN :#esoteric < 1541472542 537465 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vzxkrtkrmqkqceef JOIN :#esoteric < 1541473431 687330 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlfkerrifbqvvvrz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541474035 270631 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541475565 179997 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rgzvidikprxpncvh QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541475582 724180 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vzxkrtkrmqkqceef QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541478853 361797 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cfnxdjpirmcsxzwk JOIN :#esoteric < 1541478885 369823 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-valucxdudnlymyae JOIN :#esoteric > 1541479919 821370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58265&oldid=58261 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+0) 10 > 1541479986 341267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58266&oldid=58265 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Theme */ < 1541480827 304853 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541481791 610309 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-valucxdudnlymyae QUIT :Changing host < 1541481791 610361 :siraben!sirabenmat@unaffiliated/siraben JOIN :#esoteric < 1541481791 700032 :siraben!sirabenmat@unaffiliated/siraben QUIT :Changing host < 1541481791 700095 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-valucxdudnlymyae JOIN :#esoteric > 1541481810 794276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58267&oldid=58249 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+117) 10/* Introductions */ < 1541482432 511012 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541482821 881353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ahead14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58268 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+1240) 10Creating page > 1541482851 182246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ahead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58269&oldid=58268 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (-6) 10/* Overview */ > 1541482941 576023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58270&oldid=58220 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+12) 10/* A */ Add Ahead > 1541483052 941205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ahead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58271&oldid=58269 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+97) 10added categories > 1541483084 483421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ahead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58272&oldid=58271 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (-40) 10 < 1541483112 481381 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541483229 99621 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541483350 49572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ahead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58273&oldid=58272 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+62) 10categories < 1541492195 735251 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541492211 818851 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541497564 604592 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541497922 155315 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541497949 800728 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbqzauzbeajlhvge JOIN :#esoteric < 1541497960 379400 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541498842 222311 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541498870 723063 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541498885 861560 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541500583 590918 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 > 1541502214 906575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Twoee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58274&oldid=58258 5* 03TBurnip 5* (+590) 10 < 1541502390 747552 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541502490 89245 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think this is the first time at work when I met a case when SQL would actually be helpful to solve a problem, and it's on data that isn't yet in an SQL table. That is, it's not a persistent database that would be helpful, but some SQL statements for merging data between too many tables at the same time in several different ugly ways to fin < 1541502490 240462 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d all sorts of inconsistencies between three datasets. < 1541502605 98882 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting one dataset from a very ad hoc excel table with random data format where I can only find the ranges I need by hand, plus another datasets of a more consistent format but several tables and not in SQL format, and I have to look for inconsistencies in just the second dataset in various ways, and between the first and second dataset togeth < 1541502605 256297 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1541502640 711533 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second dataset already has parts of the first dataset merged in, but badly, so I can't trust them matching. < 1541504479 435478 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541504835 124369 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541505019 878735 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.109.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541505020 14102 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.109.179 QUIT :Changing host < 1541505020 14146 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541505233 782867 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541508246 525249 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541510020 599052 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541510035 438231 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541511828 84698 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541513290 771129 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541514310 162805 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541514873 82570 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541516378 451613 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541517047 67529 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541517410 178362 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541517696 19749 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541517718 806711 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1541518398 73327 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1541519407 448966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphabet Stew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58275&oldid=57488 5* 03DMC 5* (-11) 10/* Concept */ < 1541519850 676401 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541519895 909257 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541520258 532624 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541520594 655785 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1541520938 235512 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :write an eval quine < 1541520989 402714 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a statement in your favourite language that looks like eval foo bar baz and that will evaluate to eval foo bar baz < 1541520997 34117 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinitely recurse < 1541523052 304012 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541524492 963328 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541525783 249612 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joobeqyigovhepej JOIN :#esoteric < 1541527790 468300 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1541528328 143628 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541528354 889203 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My work must be cut out for me. I forgot the Errata sheets existed for the MC88100, and now i can't find them. < 1541528375 598741 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently there are a few major bugs in the originals that probably need to be emulated < 1541528410 920451 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541528437 238056 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the .usr bug, which from what i can tell requires padding of some sort to be added around any reads to user space from supervisor or else something stupid happens < 1541528455 358043 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ Gregor, how's it going?w < 1541528604 593381 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541528637 776140 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541530001 365100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hat < 1541530002 226202 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo < 1541530013 493204 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? high hat < 1541530014 474776 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A high hat is the same as a top hat, not the same as a hi-hat, just like how a top quark is not the same as an up quark. < 1541530209 325702 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION complains about how the MC88100 and the MC88110 have very different supervisor designs, but identical usermodes < 1541530268 453479 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally the only control registers the two share are fcr0, fcr62, fcr63, cr0, cr1, and cr2 < 1541530522 270735 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably only emulate the mc88110. the 88100 sucks anyways :p < 1541531214 597165 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541532017 863007 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541532372 855906 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541532588 750672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541532675 846464 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541532794 240434 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standards are so great! My old Nokia 6502 phone, the current Nokia that I'm not satisfied with, and the new CAT B30 phone each use a different variant of the vcard file format to export contacts. So I'll have to look at the backup of the contacts this one makes, and try to write a converter that can emit something it can read. < 1541532867 571046 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that for the Nokia 6502, I tried to write the kind of file it needs (a zip file with individual files for each contact in vcard format), but failed to produce one that it would import. For the new Nokia I succeeded, and I think I'll be able to make something for this too, < 1541532919 124859 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the CAT B30 could sort of read the vcard file that the Nokia exported (after I renamed its extension to ".vcf" instead of ".dat", which the in-phone file browser absolutely refuses to do, despite that it allows to rename the basename of the file, yay for protecting the user), < 1541532934 341705 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only it read most of the names wrong, because apparently it doesn't like mime equals sign quoted names. < 1541533170 503730 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lucky me, the Luna88K (Which seems to be the only system OpenBSD supports, or at least i can't find the MVMe stuff) only runs at 33MHz, not 50MHz, so the CPU is running at 66MIPS not 100MIPS < 1541533174 551262 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means i have more leeway :D < 1541533214 484369 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the luna's memory model needing a lookup table for physical addresses, that's a very welcome thing. < 1541533237 502450 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, technically two, but having two is an optimization of all things) < 1541533341 192068 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have absolutely no idea what TRI_PORT_RAM is. I know it's RAM (It's in the name), but i have zero idea what it does or how it works. < 1541533411 973632 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least there's no system specific expansion busses on it. It only has a PC-98 and a VME < 1541533454 185120 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony2: re errata sheet -- ah right, it's an old CPU, "errata" doesn't mean that there's a new cpu ROM (microcode) update that fixes the bugs and the sheet tells what bugs it fixed, it means those bugs are there forever < 1541533463 622420 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541533475 995611 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i kinda need that damn sheet, but it's no-where to be found :< < 1541533482 245846 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even how to work around the bugs from kernel code, like in cpus in between < 1541533537 711158 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD's 88k setup has a bunch of stuff for some bug related to ld/st instructions with .usr applied < 1541533554 215808 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all uses of ld or st isntructions with .usr are surrounded by NOPs < 1541533565 881105 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have zero clue as to why :P < 1541533577 241462 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony2: ouch < 1541533596 518605 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1541533607 932806 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that NOP surround is gated behind a compiler flag for the bug < 1541533612 996685 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i know the reason is a bug < 1541533635 743041 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's this .usr thing? < 1541533657 101757 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows STore and LoaD instructions executed in supervisor mode to pretend to be reading in user mode < 1541533670 737566 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/reading/executing/ < 1541533675 121007 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1541533713 680491 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this is all well documented < 1541533718 528084 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which helps immensely < 1541533727 484943 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet the errata with .usr might be described somewhere < 1541533735 76551 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is this something you have to emulate? < 1541533758 146082 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. But emulating it == bonus points :p < 1541533794 104715 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, you want to write golf for the cpu, so you may want to be able to check that the golfed program doesn't run into the bug. < 1541533812 257522 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't just want to emulate OpenBSD, you want to write programs directly for the cpu. < 1541533834 62441 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope to make OpenBSD run tho, just for fun < 1541533835 3415 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, of course, you might be writing only usermode programs < 1541533853 938071 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part will be decoding how the display works < 1541533882 28578 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of display? < 1541533888 105321 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bluerise/openbsd/blob/463a59d491885c59f2eef9c9dfa0a5c14b1115be/sys/arch/luna88k/include/board.h#L152 < 1541533891 528552 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a CRT < 1541533906 328581 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea what these "bitmap functions" it talks about are < 1541533922 876240 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the display's driver can execute some form of code, i'm in for a real tough one < 1541533968 764189 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drawing* the display is the easy part, the hard part is getting the emulation right < 1541533978 354081 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could hope that no program depends on the display itself... < 1541533989 961445 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll start with a serial console anyway < 1541534000 656531 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD's kernel depends on the display. :V < 1541534019 391806 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1541534027 185170 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you recompile? < 1541534047 621978 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it. Still having trouble finding the def for "putchar" tho < 1541534063 497609 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Linux can be compiled without the console part, so you don't get either a text display or a keyboard on the text console, but you still get to use serial console. < 1541534074 449658 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really rare to use Linux that way, but it's possible. < 1541534094 382251 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think you don't have to actually recompile, just tell it to use the serial console at boot, the display will fail to initialize, but the system will run. < 1541534095 160502 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably just dumb < 1541534103 613277 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set up getty to use the serial console too obviously. < 1541534113 179451 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In inittab that is. < 1541534121 907791 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that init spawns getty on the serial console < 1541534122 431999 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1541534152 849819 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could ask the OpenBSD people about how to set this up on OpenBSD exactly < 1541534173 535429 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is all sorts of docs online, and people too. < 1541534184 2073 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably much more than ones who know this cpu. < 1541534202 389084 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if that fails, then run NetBSD instead.) < 1541534395 115224 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541535385 490245 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success, I think! < 1541535576 714780 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except now I'll have to modify the names that start with Á or É or Ö, because the new Nokia sorted those half-sanely, but the old Nokia and the CAT B30 sorts them to the back of the phonebook. No problem. < 1541537550 117757 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541538357 478956 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joobeqyigovhepej QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541538417 885165 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1541539461 120282 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541540891 550167 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541541767 482686 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541542132 94075 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1541543450 856765 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1225327 Migrate phone numbers from Nokia 6303c to Nokia 216 then to CAT B30, or the quest for a sane phone < 1541543479 649731 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ repeats some of my triades against the Nokia 216, and tells what I bought instead. < 1541543568 401066 :josh5tone!~user@ip68-227-131-71.br.br.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541543737 99238 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't tell all the details about how the Nokia 216 sucks, and I don't think it adds too much to what I already said, but just incase. < 1541543935 68541 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drat. < 1541543969 662777 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541544331 566433 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't put my regular SIM card into the new phone yet, because it needs a smaller SIM card, and my regular SIM card is so old that it doesn't have the perforations for easily removing the part that makes it bigger. < 1541544660 840725 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541545590 83321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541546333 186633 :wob_jonas!b03f1944@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.68 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541546670 819700 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541547147 175573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541547699 646154 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1541547967 216830 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.224.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541548191 943872 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541548192 329052 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.224.85 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541548193 586303 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.224.85 QUIT :Changing host < 1541548193 586354 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541548468 282768 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541548607 397784 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541550179 972032 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541556183 983292 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541562133 771185 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbqzauzbeajlhvge QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541567049 213775 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzwjfhsuhxwbkejx JOIN :#esoteric < 1541567453 75081 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541567607 292046 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541571988 103913 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541572037 582462 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1541572046 52125 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up < 1541572048 989183 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1541573335 544599 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541575118 791137 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541575265 613467 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541576286 981838 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kgclpknrrayaqala JOIN :#esoteric < 1541577967 653104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :atslash: it's EARLY < 1541577981 234870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time int-e < 1541577981 633938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for int-e is Wed Nov 7 09:06:21 2018 < 1541577999 221799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1541578017 149686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1541578020 362076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for shachaf is Wed Nov 7 00:06:57 2018 < 1541578023 281591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually set my alarm clock around this time < 1541578043 14870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed all the excitement < 1541578045 742580 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, there's a seminar in 10 minutes... *yawn* < 1541578078 22910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw @realDonaldTrump celebrating his success of getting more than 9 senate seats out of 35. < 1541578096 55630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No commment on the House of Representatives. < 1541578118 457775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's hardly a surprise. < 1541578240 696495 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just Trump... exaggerate your successes, don't talk about your losses; rather, call out the people who discuss the losses for lying. > 1541579030 457365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TeslaX9314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58276 5* 03TeslaX93 5* (+52) 10Created page with "Creator of [[RTFM]], [[VeriBasic]] and [[TapeFuck]]." < 1541582238 786241 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541583684 853119 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541584136 277272 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541584464 792541 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that the new phone has 3G capability on the first SIM card, but not on the second SIM card. That's an interesting design choice. < 1541586585 616048 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541589144 422160 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzwjfhsuhxwbkejx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541589578 187091 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541590818 488378 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541591376 880662 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1541591463 837334 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.128.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541591464 32027 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.128.56 QUIT :Changing host < 1541591464 32065 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541595212 349088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541595234 501427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1541595234 565311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1541596199 808230 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1541597237 72579 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541598622 782307 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541598687 482225 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I bought myself a new phone on the weekend. < 1541598708 628257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I still don't have a phone < 1541598902 154965 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I looked at a Myphone phone in a shop, but in a quick test, I didn't like its interface much, so instead I bought a CAT B30. < 1541598921 976922 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one also isn't perfect, but I think it'll be least better than the terrible Nokia 216. < 1541598940 766609 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started to use it as a main phone today, but don't yet know how good it is, I didn't use it enough yet. < 1541598951 751660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably the wrong person to talk to about phone interfaces < 1541598954 892503 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already seen some problems, but they are hopefully smaller than what the 216 had. < 1541598968 178031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1541599018 645404 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I figured out how to copy the contacts from the 216 to the B30, and wrote it up in https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1225327 just in case it helps someone else < 1541599038 828421 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not likely that anyone wants to copy between those two particular phones, but it may still help someone if they're using one of them < 1541599166 140634 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541599182 834806 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god. The latest openbsd release still supports the 88110 < 1541599249 650034 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony2: good. does it also support not having a graphics card? < 1541599254 252134 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541599265 761306 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, then I'd recommend trying netbsd < 1541599280 318500 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541599326 344811 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the arch name? http://netbsd.org/ports/#ports-by-cpu doesn't seem to list it under some obvious way < 1541599434 502754 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.openbsd.org/plat.html says it's a discontinued platform in OpenBSD actually < 1541599439 961105 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony2: ^ < 1541599461 717563 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541599471 133440 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541599607 280382 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541600769 960943 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541600803 330776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541600998 135675 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541601031 576441 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541601036 667017 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea, it does. Depends on the DIP switches on the Luna88k+'s front panel < 1541601047 895330 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This thing uses a bunch of front panel switches to control boot haha) < 1541601195 956886 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: that makes sense. those old machines didn't have non-volatile memory, so it makes sense to have the settings in switches or jumpers. < 1541601215 967596 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the Luna has a NVRAM < 1541601221 858451 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also don't have extra circuitry for autodetecting hardware < 1541601240 656357 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: um, ok. maybe it still uses switches because that's easy to configure and already established? < 1541601246 265029 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1541601257 616257 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it also controls hardware < 1541601287 992624 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the graphics card is one of the few things that you might want to initialize (to text more or something) before even trying to read the NVRAM < 1541601333 905590 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PROM is my current issue < 1541601347 323881 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the ROM the system boots from, and it has some sort of prompt and everything < 1541601352 883268 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a mini GRUB for the 88110 < 1541601385 143545 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: doesn't openbsd come with a bootloader for that platform? < 1541601415 335820 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. the PROM comes before everything, and handles booting OpenBSD < 1541601424 455278 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.4/luna88k/INSTALL.luna88k < 1541601434 678557 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1541601440 230185 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a bootloader, but the PROM comes before it < 1541601569 319195 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1541601615 932344 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bbl < 1541601619 968859 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1541602590 435899 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541602720 780276 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541602845 106161 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541603296 906082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1541604534 235732 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541604833 128134 :error404notmoony!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541604989 464319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541606154 391111 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541607312 565221 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541607903 125306 :error404notmoony!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541608632 48979 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541609540 994520 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541610746 848279 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1541611568 207087 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541613146 204091 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541613736 817301 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541614272 429782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Seh 5* 10New user account < 1541614407 236663 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1541614637 881640 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58277&oldid=58267 5* 03Seh 5* (+224) 10 > 1541615536 713868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NARchy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58278 5* 03Seh 5* (+454) 10Created page with "Source code: http://github.com/automenta/narchy [https://bitbucket.org/seh/narchy/ https://bitbucket.org/seh/narchy/ (mirror)] ==Introduction== TODO ==Syntax== TODO ==Rules..." > 1541616088 630784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eul14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58279 5* 03Backspace 5* (+1020) 10Created page with "=Welcome to Eul= Eul is an esoteric programming language. It has been desinged to be short and percise. It is a stack-based language. =Naming= Eul's name comes from words "eu..." > 1541616166 19823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58280&oldid=58279 5* 03Backspace 5* (-2) 10 < 1541616230 79279 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1541616244 86663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58281&oldid=58280 5* 03Backspace 5* (-9) 10 < 1541616311 127065 :error404notmoony!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541616316 732416 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541617661 194776 :error404notmoony!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541617672 790541 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541618508 948591 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541621256 277418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1541623645 702333 :lynn!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ollzdqfyxysmhduc QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541623663 120931 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541623667 211263 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jsdokadxyomsqheq QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541623672 51433 :lynn!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkhkfvwkjmxikwsd JOIN :#esoteric < 1541623680 707233 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykwofmoenlcsnpmi JOIN :#esoteric < 1541623798 147174 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1541623800 246919 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541623866 137397 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541624874 975906 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1541625376 2578 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541625617 205140 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541626607 714666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1541626707 127949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58282&oldid=58260 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+102) 10/* Special Bits */ > 1541627110 161683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58283&oldid=58282 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+777) 10/* For Loops */ > 1541627150 98765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58284&oldid=58283 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (-1) 10/* Cat Program */ > 1541627206 948561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58285&oldid=58284 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+95) 10/* For Loops */ < 1541627497 885050 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1541627862 243705 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1541630136 100206 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541631608 787593 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541632586 69885 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1541633414 828953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541634505 337382 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.196.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541634653 924345 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1541634662 592683 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.196.18 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541634679 383283 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.196.18 QUIT :Changing host < 1541634679 383329 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541636601 362386 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541639785 974783 :Storkman_!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541639793 44621 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1541641059 201878 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541641087 976839 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541642409 562463 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xdfqooqjkqdmbmow JOIN :#esoteric < 1541642581 210085 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541643280 259932 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1541644222 664885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541644284 394671 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541646042 40463 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541647073 300135 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kgclpknrrayaqala QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541650914 6458 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't done this in a while, but I'm trying to zsync the wiki. I'm getting an error: < 1541650916 124702 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed to retrieve from https://esolangs.org/dump/esolang.xml.gz < 1541650918 457629 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aborting, download available in esolang.xml.part < 1541650929 694276 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any idea? I've tried thrice, it fails ~58% complete. < 1541650941 898541 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, heading to sleep but I'm on screen. Will check back tomorrow. < 1541651084 560149 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541652356 753641 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541652712 654772 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ < 1541656171 519226 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541658912 139288 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541661539 39841 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bpqscfkpvjvhyzqr JOIN :#esoteric > 1541663853 765399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58286&oldid=58238 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2310) 10hopefully more informative description > 1541664274 548668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58287&oldid=58286 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2485) 10/* Example Hello World generation */ > 1541664427 357969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58288&oldid=58287 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Example Hello World generation */ > 1541665267 87670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58289&oldid=58288 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-37) 10/* Example Hello World generation */ fix code and tidy names > 1541665748 776009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58290&oldid=58289 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+3) 10/* Example Hello World generation */ < 1541666586 320898 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541666767 796476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541667192 845146 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541671717 118903 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bpqscfkpvjvhyzqr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541672340 31377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, cute title: Rush Hour is PSPACE-complete, or “Why you should generously tip parking lot attendants” < 1541672807 428638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why you should take the train" < 1541672955 527029 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541673144 613573 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxwhmsehyfuddotx JOIN :#esoteric < 1541677679 443877 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541677867 409947 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541677867 672570 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.52 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541677868 75504 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.208.52 QUIT :Changing host < 1541677868 75570 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541681305 445024 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541681676 868687 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541683007 876904 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oahdrutbjknwocdf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685722 88412 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685722 463187 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685722 559940 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685722 954935 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685723 315018 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685723 315065 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685723 315073 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1541685739 492147 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685754 463873 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685755 822331 :Storkman!~Storkman@185.24.219.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685757 314337 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685759 248387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541685924 406884 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1541686027 225228 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1541687486 34520 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541688781 208444 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541689023 4455 :ski_!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1541689414 960399 :ski_!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se NICK :ski < 1541689990 243065 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541690470 240753 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another question: recommended books about esoteric languages/programming, and/or subjects like code golf? I'm working through Toledo Nanochess. < 1541690660 814 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541690884 758645 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1541690885 770854 :sleepnap1!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541691269 891170 :sleepnap1!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541691559 419736 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541691984 473647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541692286 373977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541692359 816765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541692899 423828 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541692911 947420 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541693176 721378 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1541693688 930230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mowag 5* 10New user account > 1541693944 949130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58291&oldid=58277 5* 03Mowag 5* (+161) 10Hi > 1541693949 311170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chef14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58292&oldid=37017 5* 03Mowag 5* (-87) 10Added a link to a (slightly) better python interpreter < 1541695585 437171 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541696328 422639 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541699689 872313 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541700253 792302 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541702010 792194 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541702247 204202 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1541703826 763365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1541703826 846979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1541703826 847030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541705421 665484 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541708217 556866 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541708317 101815 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxwhmsehyfuddotx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541708318 232655 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541708635 819479 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541709408 975690 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxkzhckhddbgencw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541709884 802420 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds > 1541710257 112863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58293&oldid=58290 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-10) 10 > 1541710343 459229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cupid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58294&oldid=39774 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+395) 10Add interpreter. I kinda like this TBS < 1541710534 446906 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541710560 419612 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541710623 528195 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvyxrwiwgfnqxcxf JOIN :#esoteric > 1541711869 216352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58295&oldid=54972 5* 03Robertpmorton39 5* (-14) 10Fixed ambiguity in precedences and changed wording in built-in macros. < 1541712945 707863 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1541713065 777400 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I use nc to create a UNIX socket and then try to connect to it, the listening process segfaults. What is doing wrong with this? < 1541713456 2843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out why; it is a bug, that it tries to use the port number, but there isn't any. Specifying a port number anyways will avoid this bug and allow it to work. < 1541717074 142938 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541717203 853233 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've poked the guy who maintains the OpenBSD port for the Luna88K to see if he can give me a copy of the device's PROM and Mask ROM. Hopefully he can < 1541717283 353622 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541717413 399967 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541719003 255584 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1541719883 741660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'm not sure why the zsync thing doesn't work. Though it's always been a little bit of a mystery to me anyway. It's not very good with error messages. < 1541719968 731805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can say is that the files are generated with "(thing that produces the XML dump) | zsyncmake -z -f esolang.xml -u https://esolangs.org/dump/esolang.xml.gz", and that results in two output files esolang.xml.gz and esolang.xml.zsync, which are then based in that dump/ directory and seem to be be fetchable just fine. < 1541720017 794587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poking around a little, though, I think it might be that zsync just doesn't support https. < 1541720336 558775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that seems to be the case. That's kind of unfortunate. < 1541720475 585811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any competing incremental download technologies? < 1541720498 335172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I wasn't able to get a working zsync backup last time I tried < 1541720514 276913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's rsync, but that's awkward to serve. < 1541720538 540895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise it diffed at the file level < 1541720547 692856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone seems to have made a "zsync-curl" project which replaces the HTTP client parts of zsync with libcurl, making it work over HTTPS. But at least Debian doesn't package that. < 1541720576 690539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, something like git could work, couldn't it? although I'm not sure it actually sends updates as file-level diffs < 1541720637 734745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also just remove the -u parameter from the zsyncmake command, in which case you should be able to download it over HTTP with conventional zsync, and HTTPS if you have a suitable client for that. < 1541720654 190612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case I should probably also store a checksum that could be fetched over HTTPS to validate. < 1541721102 447556 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541721119 248840 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541721119 421112 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.135 QUIT :Changing host < 1541721119 421139 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1541721881 529971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Wiki dumps14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58296&oldid=53557 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+859) 10Update dump instructions re HTTPS (or lack of it) < 1541721911 704822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep trying to write markdown instead of wiki-markup. < 1541722618 128748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541722705 219212 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541722723 477260 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541725135 408794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed at markdown taking over the world because so many versions of it have obvious shortcomings < 1541725169 75573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original version is decent enough for its stated purpose, but I don't like markdown being used as a sandboxing method, because the syntax is awkwardly inexpressive when you don't have the escape to HTML < 1541725650 568838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like the MediaWiki format, which has support for templates. (I have used the templates feature to make databases, although a block containing SQL codes might be better for this.) < 1541728107 501330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one thing Markdown really got right was `…` for code formattinig < 1541728124 645260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quickly becoming standard even outside Markdown < 1541728591 619800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like Markdown. < 1541728595 611905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I use instead? < 1541728620 871917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mediawiki seems a lot more complicated than I want probably. < 1541729034 128180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In e.g. C++, ; isn't associative, because of destructors: { { A; B; }; C; } ≠ { A; { B; C; }; }. What sort of meaning does {} have? Is it something like the "reset" operator for delimited continuations? < 1541729371 643139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: {} introduces a scope < 1541729379 979458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and destructors are tied to the end of a scope < 1541729412 247917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also Fossil Wiki format < 1541729416 205602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1541729427 850748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what purpose do you want this markdown-like language for? < 1541729446 692602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe writing some things to put on my website. < 1541729449 954118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe other things. < 1541729453 640183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been considering writing my own, but there are three jobs that a markdown-like language has to do and I'd be optimising for one of them specifically, which probably isn't the one you'd want < 1541729503 484697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) making it easy to write formatted text quickly; b) being easy to read the resulting text without a specialised viewer; c) being able to represent everything you might want to write accurately, without special cases or other mishaps < 1541729518 642665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markdown isn't so bad at a); I use it for my own blog for that reason < 1541729545 672251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like all three, with a preference of a over b < 1541729554 500342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no < 1541729557 784964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A preference of b over a < 1541729563 595871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1541729568 753400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language I had in mind was optimizing for b, c secondary, a not really at all < 1541729571 503468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, these aren't the things I thought about at all. < 1541729579 784756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for writing your own personal website or the like, b is irrelevant < 1541729599 86357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were your considerations? < 1541729647 721393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know anymore. < 1541729654 236402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement a "defer" statement in C++ such that "A; { B; defer Z; C; }; D;" = A; B; C; Z; D < 1541729719 815167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you prevent Z being evaluated immediately? or is it a representation of a thunk or the like? < 1541729722 933466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this sense "defer" captures things up to the nearest {} < 1541729727 155134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how you'd evaluate it at the end of the scope < 1541729738 576660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should say "defer { Z }" < 1541729799 219160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it's something like #define defer Thing blah##__LINE__ = ()[&] < 1541729833 645283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1541729898 805897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering what exactly a scope is, or should be. < 1541729924 777526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that this defer is implemented with a destructor is kind of irrelevant. As is often the case for RAII objects. < 1541729950 366556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the normal definition of a scope is that variable names inside it shadow variable names outside it and aren't available outside it < 1541729957 170439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the destructor runs at the end of the scope < 1541729982 915371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interesting way to think about it is based on INTERCAL's STASH/RETRIEVE operations, which basically allow you to implement scopes that don't nest in the normal manner < 1541729996 224525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you explicitly shadow a variable (STASH) and revert to the old variable (RETRIEVE) < 1541730046 567683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sense in which a thing like defer gets a sort of continuation as an argument, but it's bounded up to the enclosing scope. < 1541730059 107582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that something like dynamic scope? < 1541730095 962948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the difference between dynamic scope (`local` in Perl), and lexical scope (`my` in Perl), is kind-of complex < 1541730107 787925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with what happens with things that already have a reference to the shadowed variable < 1541730113 620371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1541730135 642668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e $c=4; $d=\$c; {my $c=6; print $c, " ", $$d;} < 1541730136 498879 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 4 < 1541730141 900858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e $c=4; $d=\$c; {local $c=6; print $c, " ", $$d;} < 1541730142 374865 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 4 < 1541730146 640220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1541730153 898946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the result I expected < 1541730161 475083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering what I did wrong < 1541730220 81953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does $$ resolve variables by string name in the current scope or something? < 1541730223 244105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Perl. < 1541730242 893976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read that PHP does that. < 1541730249 639377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ dereferences a reference < 1541730256 224552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1541730262 907714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to use a variable name as a reference it does what PHP does, that's insane though < 1541730272 419261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case $d is a proper reference to $c < 1541730274 927839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic scope mostly seems like scow, but recently I've been wondering whether some things are effectively dynamically scoped and I haven't noticed. < 1541730309 167663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular are "break"/"continue"/"return" effectively dynamically scoped? < 1541730319 321575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This question doesn't quite make sense in any language I know of unfortunately. < 1541730462 426856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e $c=4; sub rc {return $c;} {my $c=6; print rc();} < 1541730462 968187 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1541730467 4850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e $c=4; sub rc {return $c;} {local $c=6; print rc();} < 1541730467 563883 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1541730471 786276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, /that/'s the difference < 1541730481 922927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even more confusing than I thought it was < 1541730504 148129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. < 1541730609 615067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Haskell has dynamic scope < 1541730613 351664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let { ?c = 4 } in let { f x = x + ?c } in let { ?c = 40 } in f 5 < 1541730615 512258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 45 < 1541730616 547258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let { c = 4 } in let { f x = x + c } in let { c = 40 } in f 5 < 1541730618 605055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1541731183 715823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess `local` isn't changing the value of the variable temporarily; it's actually changing the variable itself temporarily < 1541731185 369044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how Perl < 1541731203 285913 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1541731262 751448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I as wondering whether you can make a monad thing for this. < 1541731280 283469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. do { A; bracket $ do { B; defer Z; C; }; D } -> do { A; B; C; Z; D; } < 1541731295 337158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bracket $ do { ret <- getCC; A; bracket $ do { B; defer Z; C; ret 0; D; }; E } -> do { A; B; C; Z; return 0; } < 1541731313 582575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be pretty easy, I think? at least the first example < 1541731324 647817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have a state monad with a list inside the state, that counts up all the arguments to `defer` < 1541731329 567058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have `bracket` run them all < 1541731390 250535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think bracket+defer on its own is pretty doable < 1541731411 420758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though defer isn't the only kind of effect I'd want. It's more like an arbitrary effect that can operate on the continuation up to the enclosing bracket. < 1541731444 105099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in #haskell implemented it, actually: https://gist.github.com/Lysxia/8a5c8d20f6c7c1332481190fb6f1c8b7 < 1541731449 927416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not quite right, I think. < 1541731459 717871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"operate on the rest of the continuation" is pretty much literally what a monad /is/ < 1541731467 903587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess we're trying to make a dynamic monad? a monad that gets defined at runtime? < 1541731486 738676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, except e.g. C++'s {}/; don't obey the associativity monad law. < 1541731501 247912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally there's a law that (a >> b) >> c = a >> (b >> c) < 1541731515 127905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's true that monads and continuations closely related. < 1541731529 619562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1541731533 66510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ; is still associative, just that {} are not () < 1541731555 502020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's fair. < 1541731568 827126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++ "A; B; C" means "A; { B; C; }" < 1541731585 449974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With destructors running in reverse order and so on. < 1541731627 913413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you see A; as being "A, and run the identity function on the rest of the block", that implies the same associativity here too < 1541731648 571295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads in general don't have an equivalent of bracket < 1541731656 915955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would it look like? < 1541731695 296361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One extra thing is that e.g. C++ supports early-exit outside of the enclosing block. < 1541731732 251844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo() { A; { B; if (p) return; }; C; } < 1541731735 466796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bracket takes a monad action as argument, and returns another monad action < 1541731744 427369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's very common among monads < 1541731763 888644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it's doing in between is basically running the monad actoins inside it, and bundling the result up into another monad action < 1541731795 376016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :early exit should be easy to implement like this, anyway; just don't run the rest of the block < 1541731826 168701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you want to run the appropriate defers, and whatever else, on the way up. < 1541731859 432190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think things that operate on actions are very uncommon. < 1541731885 786874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they return a value, though, not another action < 1541731933 165502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t local -- this is in the spirit of what you're talking about, I think < 1541731934 535248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadReader r m => (r -> r) -> m a -> m a < 1541731935 968610 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541731968 956318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Both for dynamic scope and for monad action actions.) < 1541732023 886049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>=) < 1541732024 984439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1541732045 386442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course (>>=) and fmap and so on also qualify < 1541732072 848354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we effectively want here is a monad where each action defines its own >>= < 1541732076 375024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out what type that has < 1541732119 834519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GenericMonad a = forall b.(a -> GenericMonad b) -> GenericMonad b < 1541732121 165993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1541732189 856920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like a fixed point of Codensity or something < 1541732248 508168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have "return a atmb = atmb a", and "(>>=) ma atmb = ma atmb" < 1541732274 520810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a->(a->b)->b < 1541732274 929715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1541732275 18 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($!) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1541732275 41878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1541732293 194896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there really isn't a flip ($) in the standard library? < 1541732301 490989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, looks like return is flip ($), and >>= is % < 1541732301 661140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (&) < 1541732302 824709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> (a -> b) -> b < 1541732303 964209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is $ < 1541732306 526059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1541732315 270687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind-of makes sense given how generic the monad is < 1541732352 67489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like this should obey the monad laws, it's 3am though and I'm lazy so I'm not going to try to work that out right now < 1541732411 527763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand it but it seems like it might not be associative based on what you were trying to do? < 1541732525 914639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, let's try to work through this anyway < 1541732538 208339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can figure out what you mean. < 1541732578 747272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :return a >>= f → return a f → f a, as required < 1541732658 188254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m >>= return → m return → -- OK, I don't think this one holds without an extra condition on what monad actions we allow < 1541732704 83806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, associativity doesn't hold without a side-condition either < 1541732758 783846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1541732775 352304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use the Codensity monad instance for this, which I think would have to make the laws hold? < 1541732817 599571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :m >>= k = (\c -> m (\a -> k a c)) < 1541732844 68505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It enforces associativity by reassociating everything to the right. < 1541732862 613752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't get the desired effect anymore, I guess. < 1541732904 604899 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Codensity f) does form a monad regardless of what (f) is. It is possible to defer; I have managed to do that with a Codensity monad. < 1541732946 966828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: This monad is like the fixed point of Codensity (?) < 1541732969 401115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it looks like Codensity has the same monad definition and "return" as what I wrote above < 1541732973 531692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but >>= is different < 1541732985 521657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's the same (>>=) as Cont. < 1541733079 959565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reassociating everything to the right is correct, I think; you'd need a separate monad action → monad action function to add explicit rebracketing < 1541733104 65115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, otherwise you can make things that are bracketing-aware. < 1541733256 494481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define a similar thing for monoids and run into the same thing, I guess? < 1541733275 274659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see one in the Codensity docs, but maybe I'm just missing it, or maybe it's a special case of something that's already there < 1541733310 873990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it exists for arbitrary Codensity but only over some specific monads? < 1541733328 983655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be < 1541733403 699116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a "monoid" that has an element x where, in x*(abc), x gets to make some decision based on abc < 1541733477 979696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not compatible with associativity. You could right-reassociate everything à la difference lists, but then you kind of lose the point. You could add explicit brackets to recognize that you're really representing a tree. < 1541733514 299968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, if you have the fixed point of Codensity, then bracket (runCodensity k) = k return < 1541733518 172494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least < 1541733551 110169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also someone suggested that Cont/runCont do the appropriate operations. I should figure that out. < 1541733558 288763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in the right state of mind for working throuhg this < 1541733568 484822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml talks about it in terms of reset/shift at the end < 1541733589 736075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thanks for your help, I'll think about this thing. < 1541733705 832402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about this same subject myself, incidentally < 1541733711 119491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it really seems like an important primitive < 1541733715 901468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "monad that can be anything") < 1541733823 140422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the mother of all monads" < 1541733828 422683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the answer is Codensity. < 1541734136 452107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other kind of monads such as Free and CodensityAsk, as well as Codensity. < 1541734186 572017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can lift them all to Codensity < 1541734270 391061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although still it is a different monad; (Codensity Maybe) is difference from just Maybe. < 1541734332 866100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. > 1541735152 694513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58297&oldid=58285 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+565) 10/* Example Programs */ -- Added 99 bottles of beer program > 1541735196 959929 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58298&oldid=58297 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+62) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1541735488 900754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Messyscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58299&oldid=56035 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+57) 10Is a TBF < 1541736232 820371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1541736936 891102 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/perl-e < 1541736937 303188 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ perl -e "$@" < 1541737718 703697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541738262 501429 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ appears to have a pun that only a norwegian would understand. < 1541738294 477586 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and editor manyhills isn't norwegian afaiu) < 1541738372 562649 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he probably thought it was only a surreal submission (well, it's that too) < 1541738912 673914 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, dmm must have fixed my registration problem from way back... < 1541738926 972401 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although i didn't get an email back) < 1541740489 342389 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :fjord pun? < 1541740592 966925 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oahdrutbjknwocdf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541741323 442307 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoolootwo: no, https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusur < 1541744640 844608 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541745587 37267 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1541748365 743999 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I implemented a QOTD server (TCP only; the UDP one is subject to attacks so it is not implemented) < 1541748428 887457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1541750626 668078 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaphdrzwghhoenfd JOIN :#esoteric < 1541751757 336309 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0 > 1541752948 190558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58300&oldid=57993 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+243) 10/* Working on */ > 1541753009 435159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58301&oldid=58300 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+10) 10/* Interested in */ > 1541754832 808479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58302&oldid=58301 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+19) 10/* Interested in */ < 1541757224 688263 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541761152 859142 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541763693 323916 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541764323 692366 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.219.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541764347 430761 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541764450 212423 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.219.31 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541764496 641659 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.219.31 QUIT :Changing host < 1541764496 641729 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541764604 553988 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541764664 618659 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, markdown format sucks. yes, file-level diff downloading is a hard problem that is possible in theory but no good practical solutions exist, so we use workarounds like splitting to smaller files, append-only logs, or (the old solution) sequences of patches. < 1541764775 917014 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a format, to be able to accurately represent complicated things, I'd prefer to just allow most HTML codes in the formatted text even if there are other shortcuts, though of course if you have untrusted input, then you have to filter the HTML. < 1541764816 348591 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I for one thing that every non-common extra feature should just use HTML-like syntax, rather than all other sort of ad-hoc syntax like magic templates, and non-HTML syntax only reserved for very common formatting < 1541764852 552277 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might eventually try to implement such a formatting language, with multiple versions, as in one for trusted input and one for untrusted input, and specifically the features I need < 1541764917 719121 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't promise anything, but if I do get something like this done, I will mention it in this channel if possible < 1541764977 432832 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back lots of years ago I already improved perlmonks' HTML-based markup language a bit, in particular I proposed adding the ... shortcut for the very common ... tags. < 1541764996 805988 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that in Perlmonks markup, ... is magical, it's not the plain HTML tag. < 1541765039 321752 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text between it is interpreted as plain text (sort of like in a CDATA), with & and < not being special < 1541766164 246566 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa! "Subversion 1.11 is the first of the new 6-month regular releases with an emphasis on introducing new features more quickly and a shorter support See Subversion 1.11 is a Regular Release below." < 1541766187 900688 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did get surprised, because the minor release 1.10 was released this year. < 1541766234 884856 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541766803 801441 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaphdrzwghhoenfd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541768524 687114 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541769370 276559 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: however, I believe you can use subversion for serving updates with in-file deltas over the internet, as long as the server stores old versions of the file and the client has one of those versions. < 1541769389 893093 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that may work as incremental downloading for your purposes < 1541769856 793489 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subversion also stores the versions of files on disk in a compressed format that takes the similarity of different version to account and also compresses ordinary obvious low-entropy stuff, so storing lots of versions isn't too expensive < 1541774807 82663 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541775794 482024 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541776331 680385 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541777790 570189 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541780631 45271 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541780667 575308 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541782383 469092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fossil wiki supports stuff like so that even if the text contains it can still work. < 1541788660 829252 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fchbdtyxoiwyhqcg JOIN :#esoteric < 1541789765 429069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Heirloom-mailx be made to work with NNTP? > 1541794512 960845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainfuckX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58303&oldid=46431 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+27) 10formatting < 1541794519 69607 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added into my "sqlext_remote" program, the possibility to use UNIX domain sockets. > 1541796388 790573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pluso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58304&oldid=39848 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+89) 10Golf!? < 1541796512 146494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC 1288 says that the finger protocol can be used with vending machines. Are there vending machines that implement it? < 1541796968 628764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose you might use it in a local network in a building, but it is not so useful for internet) < 1541797169 825246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says there were a few (and they were connected to the internet, even though they admitted it is not useful for internet), but I don't know if there are any now. < 1541797442 771026 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The account looks like it still exists, although it just says "No Plan" now. < 1541798317 715977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1541798501 885278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MilkyWay90 5* 10New user account > 1541798668 623611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58305&oldid=58291 5* 03MilkyWay90 5* (+138) 10 > 1541798684 873799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Maxsteele214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58306&oldid=43118 5* 03MilkyWay90 5* (+100) 10 < 1541803634 566232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1541804341 528366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58307&oldid=58298 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+1) 10/* Command Glossary */ > 1541804428 771713 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58308&oldid=58307 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+263) 10/* Example Programs */ < 1541804797 636057 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541806998 897558 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-059-251.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1541807375 158766 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.127.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541807574 495741 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-059-251.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541807589 706733 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541807590 9665 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.127.153 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541807590 331323 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.127.153 QUIT :Changing host < 1541807590 331363 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1541813334 508579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Java sharp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58309 5* 03Only Onion 5* (+234) 10Created page with "== Delete? == This page has been empty for over a year. I would think if its creator wanted to do something with it, they would have already. ~~~~" < 1541813535 448641 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541813568 968254 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541814133 405639 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-059-251.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541814831 850520 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541816203 865182 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-016-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541817159 519169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Maxsteele214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58310&oldid=58306 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+68) 10/* Hey... */ unsigned and new section > 1541817213 337787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02Java sharp10]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "as" > 1541817330 417414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Java sharp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58311&oldid=58309 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+177) 10Done < 1541824261 249199 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541824465 330594 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541829925 577381 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deprecated the complicated stuff about control messages in Unusenet and wrote a simpler specification, which is a subset of that used by Usenet, although with a few different considerations due to the fact that namespaces and federation are different on Unusenet. < 1541829959 346496 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fchbdtyxoiwyhqcg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541832392 931379 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541834035 201687 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa JOIN :#esoteric > 1541835956 78932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wishmaster14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58312&oldid=55192 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (-13) 10fixed typos, clarified text < 1541842651 730424 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1541844684 726366 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541847042 624395 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541849503 899435 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdmxqqfevjxdojce JOIN :#esoteric < 1541850682 424446 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541850879 690520 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.126.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541850879 876580 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.126.199 QUIT :Changing host < 1541850879 876633 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541857528 435653 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1541859219 161368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Factorial14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58313 5* 03Camto 5* (+136) 10Created page with "There should be a list of factorials per lang like there is the list of hello worlds. ~~~~" > 1541859276 793451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58314&oldid=58124 5* 03Camto 5* (+10) 10Why not. < 1541860136 127374 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541862073 187780 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541862101 626078 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541865088 894684 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541865207 532326 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541871277 514679 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Need to reconnect so here's a random tip: The command "xrandr --output HDMI1 --set 'Broadcast RGB' Full" (you might need to replace HDMI1 with your monitor output name) might significantly improve contrast on external monitors. s/Full/Automatic/ to reset < 1541871405 420115 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric > 1541873056 710915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Entfedern14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58315&oldid=57322 5* 03Camto 5* (-118) 10 > 1541873965 528911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58316&oldid=58314 5* 03Camto 5* (+127) 10 < 1541875503 650946 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541875534 378879 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1146 < 1541875535 169049 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1146: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1541877025 652775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Political parties and ridings don't mix well, I think. > 1541879099 853376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07\ () /14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58317&oldid=57768 5* 03Randairox 5* (-133) 10actualize js state < 1541880013 524738 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541880036 737697 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541881498 690237 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541882327 323940 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541883150 898738 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541883962 165891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://git.imode.tech/?p=git/python/prime;a=summary < 1541883980 392577 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, old link. https://git.imode.tech/?p=python/prime;a=summary < 1541884017 16321 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :public REPL is up on imode.tech, port 1337. `telnet imode.tech 1337`. < 1541884047 570343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connection refused. < 1541884087 418993 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to start the server lol. try now. < 1541884104 476860 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sum (evens (~4))` gives you the sum of the first 4 even numbers. < 1541884104 622657 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it works now. < 1541884104 931842 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum: '(evens (~4))` gives you the sum of the first 4 even numbers.': No such file or directory < 1541884118 945532 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, forgot that was for the bot. < 1541884244 426951 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the built-in ruleset is grossly incomplete. it's just a test to see what I can make with it. the language supports generic pattern matching over linear sequences of tokens. anything with parentheses around it is treated as a single token. < 1541884256 178308 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works. The server does not explain the ~ command but I tried it as you suggested and it works. < 1541884290 486100 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. there's no built-in arithmetic or numbers or anything save for the rewriting logic. if you prefix a number with ~, it'll expand that number into its unary form. < 1541884294 732743 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cheap hack. < 1541884314 374892 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so numbers are of the form (~x), where x is a positive integer. < 1541884323 62961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although perhaps I did not look at the webpage you linked; maybe that explains more about it, and I didn't know because I didn't look at that) < 1541884336 140118 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it doesn't explain it. not yet. a writeup is coming. < 1541884344 638837 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just been working on my site and setting up public git access. < 1541884363 996377 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. > 1541884367 294907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sifoobar 5* 10New user account < 1541884427 392046 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a REPL on port 1338 without the prelude. < 1541884482 808575 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining new rules is done via `def`. you just type `def`, it'll prompt you for the lhs of the rule, and then the rhs of the rule. < 1541884534 867193 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define any kind of pattern you'd like. for example, type `def`, hit enter, type `?x !`, hit enter, type `factorial ?x`, hit enter, type `(~4)!`, hit enter, and you'll get 24 in unary. < 1541884592 466156 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to break it. < 1541884615 144660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although I do not want to right now. < 1541884632 814154 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is up on git.imode.tech. it's the only project, and the prelude is located under that project, right here: https://git.imode.tech/?p=python/prime;a=blob;f=prelude.prime;h=b2b2f0ab80f4c47a38d16eb8e945a022d4678532;hb=refs/heads/master < 1541884654 585875 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks good at least what I saw and what you explain so far > 1541884662 21233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58318&oldid=58305 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+82) 10 < 1541884666 933469 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1541884681 261396 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some interest from other people so I figured I'd start sharing it in the places I lurk. > 1541884697 523681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58319&oldid=58270 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+12) 10/* S */ > 1541884767 20504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58320 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+439) 10Created page with "[https://gitlab.com/sifoo/snigl Snigl] is an interpreted scripting language designed for embedded use that aims to strike a compromise between the simplicity of C and Forth an..." > 1541884807 376723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58321&oldid=58320 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+80) 10 > 1541884829 476022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58322&oldid=58321 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+4) 10 > 1541884948 295914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58323&oldid=58322 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-2) 10 > 1541885223 256610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58324&oldid=58323 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+35) 10 > 1541885246 923010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58325&oldid=58324 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+0) 10 > 1541885264 309564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58326&oldid=58325 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+2) 10 > 1541885316 523748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58327&oldid=58326 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-12) 10 < 1541885371 250555 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541885373 266709 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/harlots-web/ < 1541885373 763787 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/harlots-web/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale < 1541885378 318800 :wob_jonas!b03f18fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.253 QUIT :Client Quit > 1541885477 246702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Sifoobar 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Snigl logo.png10]]" > 1541885502 847776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58329&oldid=58327 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+34) 10 > 1541885515 176358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58330&oldid=58329 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+1) 10 < 1541885984 63173 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541885999 960602 :rain2!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541887451 632977 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541887644 123989 :hmmmmm!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541888166 747112 :hmmmmm!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1541888788 39849 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1541892783 736842 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541893934 773771 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.129.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541894058 889703 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541894062 931745 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.129.136 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541894106 926416 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.129.136 QUIT :Changing host < 1541894106 926462 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541894383 702048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: The way of doing comments does not seem like so good < 1541895350 150692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/sigfpe/status/1061408937558196225 < 1541895393 907932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do a Magic: The Gathering quine with less nonstandard text? < 1541895590 754467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that card isn't a quine, it merely generates a quine. < 1541895686 788500 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-016-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541895713 439552 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-016-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1541896411 803064 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdmxqqfevjxdojce QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541899127 362105 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there the possibility with Apache for changing the log format depending on the DNT header? < 1541900292 969390 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541901300 93768 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541901348 998570 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njtkkmbqlebchjgb JOIN :#esoteric < 1541902096 390224 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541909611 831093 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njtkkmbqlebchjgb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541911452 964781 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kpibanldvgnranwk JOIN :#esoteric < 1541912567 135429 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now configured my HTTP server so that if DNT:1 is specified then it only logs the date/time, response code, data length, and time taken to serve the request. (In case of DNT:0 or no DNT header, it also logs client IP address, first line of the request, and user-agent.) Do you think this is good? < 1541912712 985176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to also program the error log due to such thing? < 1541913873 836788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the document it can set the error log format but not conditionally. < 1541915718 248991 :Chittle!~sam@69.61.172.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541917035 311025 :Chittle!~sam@69.61.172.33 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1541917154 379166 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541917445 984915 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1541917445 984963 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1541917446 92272 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1541917473 199294 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1541917493 516180 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1541917701 500922 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541920634 206585 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1541920673 871616 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541921222 967889 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1541921223 100037 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1541921223 146704 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1541921242 724384 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1541921265 267334 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1541921471 774931 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1541922184 540833 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1541922293 482914 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541924993 268848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.09553 < 1541925610 332100 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541925811 909673 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kpibanldvgnranwk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541927247 285062 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541927383 118015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Just reading the short description, Penrose mentioned a similar thing in a footnote and I also tried too, with the same result of Penrose. < 1541927577 316849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That the common notation for second derivatives is no good, so, this document suggests a revised notation hopefully will be better. < 1541927595 232024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've suggested the same notation in this channel in the past? < 1541927606 564729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. I was trying to figure it out, at any rate. < 1541927611 698414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe oerjan remembers. < 1541927850 701972 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think someone else on this channel also was trying to figure out, not only me. < 1541927883 254947 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember who, but I was one who had figured it out. Maybe you were the other one; I do not remember. < 1541928045 21404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was also on Wikipedia or something. < 1541928073 73154 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe. There may also be others (outside of this IRC) who have figured similar stuff. < 1541929667 704216 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541931828 198866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1541932355 181106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfoctal14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58331 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+234) 10/* Numbering system */ new section < 1541932526 597779 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-woumszfnwntqeicu JOIN :#esoteric > 1541935853 886791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58332&oldid=58293 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+555) 10Oh yes, Ruby uses bignums. < 1541937176 836205 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1541937386 760708 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541937387 18560 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.194 QUIT :Changing host < 1541937387 18612 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541937449 825004 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C1FE.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1541937805 650353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck derivatives with nontrivial computational class proofs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58333&oldid=46767 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+29) 10Link TBFS page < 1541937900 724471 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C1FE.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541939509 40723 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1541940480 827274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi there < 1541940481 509706 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/ bfm.tar.bz2 new tarball up.) i look forward to it. i prefer the top-level binding, since it only uses bash built-ins < 1541942559 669008 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwjuqnmrklgpqzpe JOIN :#esoteric > 1541945341 607986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07English14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58334&oldid=57971 5* 03Gamer 5* (+28) 10 > 1541945626 804979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Developers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58335&oldid=43327 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+552) 10TBFS interpreter < 1541946628 699722 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you are in a good mood today eh? < 1541946629 471778 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i first though i'd make real-time tone creating possible in the general case, also consider using mzscheme ( the command line. < 1541946644 883771 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541946669 328169 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541946671 620096 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: thanks it could be useful some day. Though I’m fearful of some schemes < 1541946672 241514 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: seen jao? < 1541946725 251312 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly < 1541946764 811179 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be glad fungot doesn’t asks about Nora’s Hair Salon Disaster Download Something Something < 1541946765 247185 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: so if the list contains a certain element of the list < 1541946799 626923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it’s called nonempty < 1541946800 111303 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i got 2 functions, each of which can be " extended" inside of " blocks" < 1541946816 530475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, you won < 1541946847 546266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is like tetris, it wins each time < 1541946866 34829 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I called them < 1541949221 729779 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541949300 341987 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: re M:tG stuff, that works, but it's sort of an overkill, an ability on a card can copy that ability just fine, just see the tech on Unstable Shapeshifter or Cryptoplasm, you could copy the token creation ability to a token that way too. < 1541949741 612670 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re apache HTTP server config question, try http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#if , I think that can be conditional on a header in the HTTP request, together with http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/mod_log_config.html#logformat < 1541950174 735797 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1541951419 739664 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541951447 261489 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541952247 272749 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541952356 797572 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541952608 844763 :wob_jonas!b03f18a3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.163 QUIT :Client Quit > 1541952612 493360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58336 5* 03Cortex 5* (+2319) 10Created page with "'''A''' is a language created by [[User:Cortex]] which is designed to be extremely difficult to read and write code in. The command names are often either 1 letter or gibberis..." > 1541952656 359138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58337&oldid=58247 5* 03Cortex 5* (+8) 10 > 1541952736 947137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58338&oldid=58319 5* 03Cortex 5* (+64) 10 < 1541954306 362638 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1541955187 842190 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541955376 199986 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.226.255.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1541957918 302315 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1541961203 487944 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, knob and tube wiring has almost been removed! < 1541961232 209746 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also our extremely illegal carter system swicth < 1541962450 340940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to install Apache 2.4, but somehow it didn't install so I am using 2.2 < 1541967980 99138 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541968003 219708 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541968072 200211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541969108 339659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541969280 880877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric > 1541970262 315958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58339&oldid=58047 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+648) 10 < 1541970352 388991 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add a JFILL pseudo-op into the MIXPC assembler to program the default target of a jump table. < 1541970456 377160 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possible option to add is a option to punch "0" in the first character position of all program cards except the first and last card. If you are using actual cards, it may then make it easier to sort the cards if they are mixed up. < 1541972105 284053 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-woumszfnwntqeicu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541973831 272808 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 NICK :arseniiv < 1541974245 880040 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1541975886 533648 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1541979436 732279 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541980179 873178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541980323 269978 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.121.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541980534 807615 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1541980534 904765 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.121.74 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541980535 136462 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.74 QUIT :Changing host < 1541980535 182813 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541980820 327378 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541981210 797053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541981224 988228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1541981225 291096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1541981237 477701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :his523 < 1541981257 146711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1541981278 896317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any progress on the fixed point of Codensity? < 1541981293 869976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to ask you the same thing. < 1541981303 844949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't think about that type much since last time. < 1541981349 492047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not satisfying the monad associativity law might not be so bad. < 1541981356 225077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't call your thing a monad. < 1541981461 88386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alternative is to explicitly make your code into a tree with "bracket $ do { ... }" calls. I think bracket is quite similar to reset from delimited continuations. < 1541981580 546954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I said earlier that C mutable types were similar to e.g. refs in SML, but there's an important difference: If you have a ref containing a pair, you can't in general get a ref to each of its components. < 1541981591 424481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language with explicit refs that does allow that? < 1541981654 881486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the "how do you contrast elements of the pair with the pair itself" question is really, really complex < 1541981670 888785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conflating them is one of the most common mistakes made in theoretical computer science < 1541981676 70103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to write quite a bit in my thesis about it < 1541981692 182823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The situation in C is more complicated than I would've thought. < 1541981696 155808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, this /specific/ question isn't one of the ones I have a ready-made answer to, and I don't want to throw out an answer quickly because experience shows that any simple answer here will probably be wrong < 1541981710 13751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has two "." operators for field access, one for lvalues and one for rvalues. < 1541981774 688776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If read : LValue a -> RValue a, then read(lval.x) = read(lval).x, so it's easy to confuse them. < 1541981809 656860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic issue wrt pairs can be seen by trying to access both halves of the pair; is that a) a single operation that decomposes a pair into its two halves, or b) two operations, each of which reads one half of a pair? < 1541981841 835346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew a good language that doesn't have lvalues. < 1541981847 530343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're counting how many accesses are made to something (in my thesis, this came up wrt affine typing, but `volatile` is a more familiar example), the distinction is really important < 1541981855 4440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but does have mutable variables? < 1541981866 924171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know BLISS? < 1541981868 158095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just pointers/references. < 1541981879 483307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: BLISS and ALGOL 68 are the two answers I know to this question. < 1541981894 863342 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1541981901 429161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, a reference to an immutable value is normally very hard to distinguish from the value itself < 1541981936 996862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"volatile" seems like a weird thing to have as a property of a variable. < 1541981938 220364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference is that if the value is deallocated, the reference becomes invalid, but deallocation is effectively a form of mutation < 1541981949 716791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems much more like it should be a property of the read/write operation on the variable. < 1541981967 156771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, from a mathematical point of view, it's simplest to initially treat everything as volatile and then potentially allow for optimisations that change the number of reads on something < 1541981988 878970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see an argument to have a volatile version of lvalue and of rvalue dereferencing, though < 1541982002 281186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… half the complexity of lvalues would be simplified if they /couldn't/ be read < 1541982012 756191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be a pretty weird language, though < 1541982017 969242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :read, read_volatile : Ptr a -> a < 1541982037 944187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int X {get; set}; setX(4); setX(getX()+1); < 1541982087 318200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any particular reason why this style of programming wouldn't work, and it's a lot clearer than many others (and it's more or less how object-oriented program treats exposed variables, although probably for a different reason) < 1541982115 792517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now pass-by-reference is accomplished via passing the setX or getX /function/ by value < 1541982116 957218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe C++ was making a change like that? < 1541982129 493656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's most likely for class fields < 1541982133 986568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone treats /local/ variables like this < 1541982140 595275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I stole the syntax from C#) < 1541982165 839610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, it's Rust: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/ptr/fn.read_volatile.html < 1541982195 661323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about the thing I said. I'm not sure what you mean by passing the function by value. < 1541982214 250756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to ask "why is that unsafe" and then saw it works on `*` pointers, which would be a good reason < 1541982251 966893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: passing the function by value, I mean you could pass the return value of getX() (i.e. pass by value), or you could pass the getX function itself so that the callee could then call it itself (i.e. pass by reference) < 1541982271 762325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the difference between passing x and passing (int const *)&x in C < 1541982272 21195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where getX is a closure or something? < 1541982281 903735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getX is something like a closure, I think < 1541982294 62333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that the variable X can't be directly referenced at all < 1541982311 429227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you have is its lvalue part setX and rvalue part getX, which correspond to the operations of assigning to it and reading it < 1541982362 291720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to separate it into the covariant part and contravariant part, I guess. < 1541982406 97215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1541982456 745674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, most languages treat variables like products of their lvalue and rvalue; a product's a type of pair where the pair itself acts as a unit, any operation on the pair can say "do this on the LHS" or "do this on the RHS" but the two parts aren't separable (unless you copy out of half of the pair individually) < 1541982496 345586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this version of things treats variables like tensors of their lvalue and rvalue; a tensor's a type of pair which is basically just a wrapper for two halves, with the wrapper having no properties of its own, rather each half has its own independent behaviour < 1541982542 387325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically speaking you have to copy a product to act on both halves of it (e.g. in a stack-based language, you'd do dup, then get hold of one half, operate on it, then get hold of the other half using the copy of the pair you made earlier) < 1541982556 721981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I follow. < 1541982568 770332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with a tensor, the operation you use to act on the tensor drops it into two halves of its own accord, so if you only act on one you need to explicitly pop the other one < 1541982596 593595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is a really confusing subject in general and I'm not all that great at understanding it < 1541982600 281021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at explaining it < 1541982634 310992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost feels like the tensor/product distinction is the same sort of thing as monads, i.e. people use it all the time when writing in more mathematical languages but often only poorly understand it, except that it isn't well-known that it even is a problem < 1541982663 273509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski wrote about this a little while ago at http://slbkbs.org/ski-mercury.txt < 1541982667 89856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it basically comes down to what happens when a language has some sort of metadata you can attach to a value (which is very common) < 1541982736 520905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a language that makes all this very clear, most languages muddle it up or don't support talking about it at all. < 1541982760 650488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: lvalue versus rvalue, OCaml is 100% explicit on the matter < 1541982799 326719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using := as lvalue dereference (producing a setter) and ! as rvalue dereference (which should produce a getter, although it actually executes the getter immediately; that's something of a mathematical flaw, I guess) < 1541982801 161559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you get a ref to a part of a product inside another ref? < 1541982827 258406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't; that's because OCaml products are products < 1541982834 525467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than tensors < 1541982845 517808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, there's a distinction < 1541982848 570754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have OCaml in hackego? < 1541982853 525193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` which ocaml < 1541982853 705802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1541982854 776237 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1541982858 119430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1541982871 933575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in OCaml you can't get a ref to anything unless it was declared via the ref keyword < 1541982885 637929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ref (1, 1) has a different type from (ref 1, ref 1) < 1541982891 485625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1541982907 977802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what most of the explicit-about-refs languages do. < 1541982926 479567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in languages that help you talk about memory layout and so on. < 1541982940 29786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you declare a struct or union in C, what information exactly are you declaring? < 1541982962 305588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've asked that question before but I'm still not sure I have an answer. < 1541982965 895052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the very early days of C, declaring a struct just gave you a list of constants representing memory offsets < 1541982980 102371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In lvalue-land, you're declaring things like: A sizeof, an alignment, an offset for each field. < 1541982984 887108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you wrote struct a {int b; int c}, that was more or less equivalent to "const int b = 0; const int c = 4;" < 1541983012 967542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the exception that struct a would be reported as having size 8 for the rest of the program, affecting things like sizeof, allocation of auto variables, and the like) < 1541983015 345996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In rvalue-land, you're declaring something like, "this is the information that this struct consists of" < 1541983035 336874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing in lvalue-land is effectively a memory encoding of the thing in rvalue-land. < 1541983042 792262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like it's within the spirit of C for struct fields to not be rvalues at all < 1541983054 916507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you pass something by value to a function, the calling convention doesn't use the lvalue-land memory layout, it uses something more efficient. < 1541983057 357129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I think they actually are in practice < 1541983076 503452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"f().c" is an rvalue < 1541983081 829647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as is 2+2 < 1541983098 947258 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541983109 588809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions returning structs is something of a weird case in C; it doesn't feel like it "should" be possible, and in fact many compilers need special cases for it < 1541983125 772351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems pretty reasonable to me. < 1541983150 633572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c /dev/stdin <<< 'int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}'; ./a.out < 1541983153 763358 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: \ /dev/stdin:1:17: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘puts’ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration] \ int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;} \ ^~~~ \ Hello, world! < 1541983174 214212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c /dev/stdin <<< 'int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}' | cat; ./a.out < 1541983175 158989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: \ /dev/stdin:1:17: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘puts’ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration] \ int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;} \ ^~~~ \ Hello, world! < 1541983185 104776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's up with all the terminal control codes < 1541983190 61540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I gave f().c as an example is that it shows that a.b doesn't always mean a thing like *(&a + b_offset). < 1541983209 839670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -fdiagnostics-color=never -x c /dev/stdin <<< 'int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}'; ./a.out < 1541983210 722873 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: \ /dev/stdin:1:17: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘puts’ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration] \ int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;} \ ^~~~ \ Hello, world! < 1541983238 113690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -fnodiagnostics-show-caret -fdiagnostics-color=never -x c /dev/stdin <<< 'int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}'; ./a.out < 1541983238 811729 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: error: unrecognized command line option ‘-fnodiagnostics-show-caret’; did you mean ‘-fno-diagnostics-show-caret’? \ Hello, world! < 1541983243 532966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -fno-diagnostics-show-caret -fdiagnostics-color=never -x c /dev/stdin <<< 'int main(void) {puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}'; ./a.out < 1541983244 497530 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: \ /dev/stdin:1:17: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘puts’ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration] \ Hello, world! < 1541983269 419020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc int main() { puts("hi"); return 0; } < 1541983270 338152 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1541983277 386974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I agree that C currently works like this; however, I believe that all the cases that force structs to be treated as rvalues are weird special cases that /shouldn't/ have been in C < 1541983285 300909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also LLVM, but does not have macros though < 1541983303 870897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you also think struct assignments shouldn't be allowed? < 1541983310 38991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1541983324 765072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. They seem pretty reasonable to me. < 1541983340 725660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a related question which is something that I've been really interested in over the past few months in general, and past few days more earnestly < 1541983341 99527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about passing structs as arguments by value? < 1541983362 885533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that languages seem to often use the same sort of language feature for a) large, complex values, and b) stateful objects < 1541983371 961989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should be treated entirely differently < 1541983382 909094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things in class a) shouldn't be mutable, things in class b) shouldn't be passable by value < 1541983414 835582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few languages are skirting round the edges of this idea but I don't think any has gone the whole way < 1541983539 90857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would languages be different if they made that distinction? < 1541983798 596012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think of a way to make "user primitives" for JavaScript that can implement (a) < 1541983891 57597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well for example, you'd never need a value/reference distinction < 1541983895 355415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the actual syntax < 1541983920 134980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something is a value, it's always a value; if something's an object, it isn't a value at all, it can only be manipulated via references to it (and those references are values) < 1541983937 705795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the code itself sees only values < 1541983944 250875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(objects are manipulated via methods/accessor functions) < 1541983970 475706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more controversially, I /also/ think it would be beneficial if objects just persisted forever if they weren't explicitly deallocated, /but/ you could search for objects with particular properties < 1541983995 454986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only argument in favour of this is that for something like the last 10 programs I've tried to seriously write, they'd be more easily written in that style than in a style that tries to maintain indexes manually < 1541984031 31421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search for? < 1541984097 962450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage collection works for unsearchable objects < 1541984135 432435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like, there's a function that returns a reference to "the object whose x property is y" < 1541984184 954029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know that garbage collection works, however I think that garbage collection of reference-like objects is normally a bad idea, because if a programmer knows what they're doing they typically know the points at which they're supposed to become no longer useful anyway < 1541984226 373823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so sure that is true < 1541984234 483569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only objects that act like values that really benefit from garbage collection; this is because reference+garabage collect is a more efficient way of implementing the semantics you normally want (which is to replace referencing by copying, and freeing copies that go out of scope) > 1541987111 486484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WHY14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58340&oldid=58103 5* 03Camto 5* (+54) 10Add them categories. < 1541990118 969157 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541990516 646167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boker toevjan < 1541990611 22828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? < 1541990792 736429 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects hebrew < 1541990817 596219 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was right < 1541990828 587069 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heichaf < 1541990869 289710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :erev toevjan < 1541990891 432127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, it's slightly irritating that "morning" and "evenign" are singular in hebrew, but e.g. "noon" is plural < 1541991041 313809 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe oerjan remembers. <-- AAAAAAAAAAA < 1541991897 627547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it that oerjan remembers? i've forgotten hth < 1541992451 566502 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1541992458 60258 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh thx < 1541992517 950345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the thing with differentials. < 1541993014 529555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote a document for a internet protocol called Netsubscribe, which I invented, you can read and please to question, complaint, or other comments about it. < 1541993826 283849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/netsubscribe Do you like this? > 1541994122 395434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58341&oldid=58339 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+399) 10Include the bootstrap card for MIXPC assembler < 1541994174 225224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541994186 899890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541994238 884289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think the specification could be organised a bit more clearly; for example, I would separate the normative description of the protocol itself from suggestions about how to implement it, and I would move any detailed description of competing protocols and protocols that you plan to replace to a separate section near the end < 1541994286 772957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might also be helpful to separate the description of what data the protocol operates on from the way that those data are represented within the protocol, but I might be wrong about that < 1541994404 247741 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, I deleted some of the stuff from the introduction, such as the stuff about other protocols (which was there in order to try to make it more clearly), although one reason I put that there was to clarify it, although ideally it should be clear without. < 1541994425 940099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of error codes you have is much smaller than in most protocols; I think most protocols eventually discovered that they needed to use a system of error numbers, in which the number encoded some information about the error (so that clients knew how to handle unknown errors) but also just a code describing the cause of the error < 1541994443 649939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that sort of information isn't necessarily useless, but people want to know the information in importance order < 1541994458 112176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to read less important information to get to more important information it's easy to get confused < 1541994505 596488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe there should be an error code for a permission error, and for a temporary error. < 1541994527 89801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make other kind of suggestions about what kind of error you think needs to be mentioned. < 1541994555 676533 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541994562 340495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I could add stuff about relation to other protocols in a section at the end, I will try to do that. < 1541994671 474217 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how I should organize the suggestions how to implement it as you describe though, and I am not sure about separating the description of what data the protocol operates on from the way that those data are represented within the protocol (you say yourself you may be wrong about that, though) < 1541994739 546731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, in RFCs, advice like "don't use gets()" and similar advice about how to implement the protocol securely is often placed in a section called "security implications" at the end < 1541994920 821827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deleted the part about gets() and fgets(). And you could use fgets() anyways, as long as you check for the presence of the line break so I was wrong about that anyways. < 1541995082 258764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I will add a section of security implications. < 1541995200 690402 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1541995289 624006 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541995297 255524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you think there are any security implications that I may have missed? < 1541995513 51331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to get all the security implications first time with a new protocol; so I'd expect anyone to miss some the first time < 1541995524 77568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1541995527 21268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not really used to this protocol so I'd be even more likely to miss them < 1541995605 78082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that is also why I ask; even if I might miss some that someone else doesn't, even if it is likely to miss them, there is also the possibility that there is one you don't miss, I suppose.) < 1542000056 966162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1542000742 18712 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwjuqnmrklgpqzpe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542004302 806097 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa JOIN :#esoteric < 1542004516 205003 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542004735 754388 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542004933 2494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 I've forgotten your idea involving generalizing Rust's ?, is it written somewhere? < 1542004933 157429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542011547 197764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 I vaguely remember seeing a Haskell proposal that would translate something like do { f (<- a) (<- b) } into do { x <- a; y <- b; f x y } and so on. Do you remember something like that? < 1542011547 345453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542011555 483472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or oerjan or Taneb or whoever < 1542012035 667631 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvrezdvfumnqwalh JOIN :#esoteric < 1542014146 846189 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542016272 285856 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1542017396 163752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58342&oldid=58331 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1401) 10/* Numbering system */ great suggestion, thank you!! < 1542017437 563827 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa JOIN :#esoteric < 1542017923 237475 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542021016 475718 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvrezdvfumnqwalh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542021642 452979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Ah, it's https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/64 < 1542021642 635364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542021707 303371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Oh, and http://docs.idris-lang.org/en/latest/tutorial/interfaces.html#notation is even closer < 1542021707 451931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542023635 245701 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542023780 703146 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.127.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542023780 794257 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.127.217 QUIT :Changing host < 1542023780 794302 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542024210 871468 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542024733 816152 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1542024757 550152 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dateu < 1542024758 929673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2018-11-12 12:12:38.052784510+00:00 < 1542025554 537499 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:7575:fc76:2c9f:4afa QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1542026408 735791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Falsebrain9Q+Fishload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58343&oldid=57914 5* 03Joshop 5* (+6) 10 < 1542029014 268130 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542031765 242836 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542032232 636445 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host81-136-80-199.range81-136.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542033838 236669 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542034361 731302 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542034991 467431 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : "The reason I gave f().c as an example is that it shows that a.b doesn't always mean a thing like *(&a + b_offset)." -- hm, i suppose that goes into the difference between "persistent" vs. "transient" values (objects ?). cf. the C++ kerfuffle with "rvalue references" in relation to "move semantics" (and "perfect forwarding") < 1542034996 466682 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : "ais523 : I've forgotten your idea involving generalizing Rust's ?, is it written somewhere?" -- hm, i vaguely remember thinking and talking about something like that, on another channel < 1542035016 524580 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(partly in relation to my "reflective syntax" idea) < 1542035110 129737 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : fwiw, did you add some follow-up comments or questions after that (paste) snippet ? i think i intended to look and continue that conversation, but i got busy and then forgot, and now it's out of my scrollback < 1542035895 680505 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542036007 526750 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542036051 198926 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542036072 714545 :MDead_!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542036155 403053 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542036315 990814 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542038343 999588 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542039319 201197 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bplzoeqjinejszwh JOIN :#esoteric < 1542041592 792352 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542042720 256073 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542045839 595984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542045847 408698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1542045847 545215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 11h 21m 54s ago: I've forgotten your idea involving generalizing Rust's ?, is it written somewhere? < 1542045847 545256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 9h 31m 40s ago: I vaguely remember seeing a Haskell proposal that would translate something like do { f (<- a) (<- b) } into do { x <- a; y <- b; f x y } and so on. Do you remember < 1542045847 545265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that? < 1542045847 545273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 6h 43m 24s ago: Ah, it's https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/64 < 1542045847 545280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 6h 42m 19s ago: Oh, and http://docs.idris-lang.org/en/latest/tutorial/interfaces.html#notation is even closer < 1542045888 2167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think I posted my generalized-? idea anywhere but IRC, and it isn't fleshed out into a formal specification or anything like that < 1542046017 875669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we should try to express it in Haskell notation or something like that < 1542046048 57560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is that x? converts the rest of the block into a function and gives it as an argument to x < 1542046056 186157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can run it once, or not run it, or run it repeatedly < 1542046085 910936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the f (<- a) (<- b) idea that you mention would be necessary so that code like f(a?)(b?) would be sensible < 1542046162 275800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idris ! may be equivalent, although it's weird seeing it around presumably nullary terms like "print" < 1542046177 228942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not nullary, but returning a monad that contains unit < 1542046236 988783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that works even in Rust < 1542046293 768519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason why you couldn't have a Result where the "non-error" case contained no data < 1542046294 356893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (print x)? would mean "print x, and return on failure, otherwise continue" < 1542046300 933261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a common idiom in Rust already, come to think of it < 1542046316 412043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1542046328 824425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542046746 487413 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/returning a monad that contains unit/returning a monadic action whose result is unit/) < 1542046817 943912 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf : "ais523 : I've forgotten your idea involving generalizing Rust's ?, is it written somewhere?" -- hm, i vaguely remember thinking and talking about something like that, on another channel (partly in relation to my "reflective syntax" idea) < 1542046949 673686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm mostly thinking about this ? proposal for less heavily functional languages < 1542046983 559329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell have anything resembling a promise library? or does it not need one, because the language is lazy anyway? < 1542047025 368835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…actually, the problem with Haskell wouldn't be blocking until the result arrives, but starting to ask for the result before you need it < 1542047036 885868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's there when you do < 1542047059 519511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that was discussed on a previous work project of mine, but not implemented, was "parallel call by need evaulation" < 1542047063 958462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evaluation < 1542047068 312162 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bplzoeqjinejszwh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542047102 112204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that when you see code "f x", you start evaluating x in the background while calling f; if f turns out to return without actually needing the value of x, you halt/discard the background evaluation < 1542047110 903694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously, this only really works in a pure language) < 1542047130 76059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that style would make promises entirely irrelevant < 1542047284 524860 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the Rust `?' thing was (originally ?) about operations returning a result of option type ? < 1542047293 108502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, re the "monad that contains" thing, I apologise for the sloppy language (but think "monadic action whose result is" is misleading; it's not really like a result at all, more like an argument) < 1542047335 127502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust's ? was probably first used with Result (the equivalent of Haskell's Either) as that's the type which most commonly needs it in practice < 1542047348 133625 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, i just like to emphasize that a monad is not a run-time value, really. a value of monadic type is something else < 1542047382 627855 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :your description of `x?' above seemed related to CPS ? < 1542047407 898937 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like "monad that contains" or "monadic action whose result is". Some monads neither contain such a value nor perform an action having a result < 1542047424 706265 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :example ? < 1542047435 578517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sk; < 1542047443 346278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simplest example is probably the void monad < 1542047446 614285 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i agree about not "containing" a value) < 1542047455 477900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, actually, no, that doesn't support return < 1542047468 554155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there is stuff that can contain a value of that type but might not, such as Maybe and [] < 1542047472 293638 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what you have in mind by that term < 1542047475 664675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't intuitively see why a monad should < 1542047494 316395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: "Maybe except it always contains Nothing", for example < 1542047502 887498 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Maybe' expresses the possibility of not ending up with a result < 1542047503 359708 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Maybe': not found < 1542047513 100437 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the effect that the `Maybe' monad expresses < 1542047543 607993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the difference in thought between me and everyone else is that I see monad actions as not necessarily belonging to any particular monad type < 1542047551 692510 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, one could say that all behaviour of an action of some monad, apart from simply "yielding" a single result, is an effect < 1542047566 324048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskellers think in terms of "Maybe Integer", whereas I think more in terms of "Nothing" or "Just 6" < 1542047580 617409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as being of type (Monad x) => x Integer < 1542047580 718112 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for `Maybe' an effect is not giving a result value. for list, an effect is not giving a result value, or giving multiple result values < 1542047602 161118 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for state, an effect is depending on, and possibly changing, the implicit state < 1542047617 406468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: why are you treating the case where one result value is available as a special case? < 1542047637 699541 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, can you compose types like "SuchThat f Integer"? < 1542047641 679408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what "pure"/"return" does, and thus it isn't an effect by definition? < 1542047654 84989 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well, `Nothing' is of type `Maybe Integer', not of type `Monad x => x Integer', afaiac -- i'm not following your line of thought here, elaborate ? < 1542047656 100657 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. an integer such that f returns true on it? < 1542047705 948314 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : "why are you treating the case where one result value is available as a special case?" because that's the non-effectful ("pure") case, which is what the `return'/"unit" monadic operation (not that greatly named in Haskell) gives you < 1542047736 779928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I know, it isn't of type Monad x => x Integer; it's more that for me, the important thing about Nothing and Just 6 is that (Nothing (>>=)) and ((Just 6) (>>=)) are funcitons that take (Integer -> a) arguments < 1542047748 665223 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren : in dependent typing, you can < 1542047768 251927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…actually, I think I've realised what's up with my understanding; I think of monads as being /just/ the >>= < 1542047774 841047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without caring about the "return"/"pure" part of the mat all < 1542047789 126695 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, both are important < 1542047798 424695 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :while admittedly, one is more interesting than the other < 1542047820 149941 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when branching, you want the ability/choice to not do anything interesting in one branch < 1542047904 422598 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, thinking of `(Nothing >>=)' and `(Just 6 >>=)' again to me suggests thinking about continuations (CPS, or in this case, the Codensity monad, which is a kind of optimization that you sometimes want to apply) < 1542047914 984764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and thinking about this even more: the behaviour of ">>=" is effectively part of the monad /action/, whereas the behaviour of "return"/"pure" isn't, it's only part of the monad /type/ < 1542047921 273011 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542047939 624920 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in a sense, both are trivial < 1542047949 408674 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are about *sequencing* some kind of interesting *effects* < 1542047952 715865 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1542047958 312397 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither of them actually expresses an interesting effect < 1542047965 528725 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you can have a SuchThat f Integer then you can instead of hacing a function return a Maybe Integer it can *take* a SuchThat f Integer < 1542047990 278228 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you *only* have `return' and `(>>=)' operations of a monad to work with, that's (close to) useless, you can't do much useful stuff < 1542047995 963590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suppose we have code like (Haskell) do {a1 <- a; b1 <- b; return (a+b)} < 1542048011 824986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to make something like that work when a and b belong to /different/ monads? my guess is no < 1542048022 705833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1542048025 94717 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, with higher-order operations, you can do some useful things. but only as library operations that eventually will have to be applied in a particular situation, with a particular monad with more operations available) < 1542048027 813272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do {a1 <- a; b1 <- b; return (a1+b1)} < 1542048045 310826 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"monad" is like an abstract data type interface, like "priority queue" < 1542048057 350633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1542048079 292429 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, knowing that you have a priority queue, but not being given any additional, implementation-specific operations, for it, you can still do useful things < 1542048084 503361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, and b have two different types, and each such class belongs to the typeclass Monad < 1542048085 148664 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a monad, not so much < 1542048121 33479 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically, you want to have some extra operations, like state operations, non-deterministic operations, exception operations, parsing, concurrency-related, continuation stuff, &c. < 1542048151 591460 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is it possible to make something like that work when a and b belong to /different/ monads? my guess is no" -- in general, no -- in some particular cases, it may be possible < 1542048159 318864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think I know what goes wrong in Haskell; you'd need /two/ returns, the inner one creating a value that's pure with respect to b's effects, the outer one creating a value that's pure with respect to a's effects < 1542048189 298829 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that can also be useful, in certain situations < 1542048193 777810 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that's a different thing) < 1542048194 67398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1542048220 384601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest you can get to what I want in Haskell is do {a1 <- a; return do {b1 <- b; return (a1+b1)}} < 1542048220 773233 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren : yep < 1542048274 596895 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say `a' in the state monad (`State t', say, `t' being the type of the state which the computation depends on, and may change) < 1542048287 419470 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and `b' in the environment/input/reader monad (`Reader t') < 1542048324 414093 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you're not interested in the final value of the state, and so you want to avoid bothering getting back the final state result from the "rightmost-leaning branch" in your computation tree < 1542048374 980167 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, here we'd have a variant of `(>>=)', of type `m a -> (a -> n b) -> n b', where `m' here would be `State t', and `n' would be `Reader t' < 1542048516 772409 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we also have a conversion of type `m a -> n a', which here just discards the final state, and `n a -> m a', which copies over the input state. the former operation is a post-inverse to the latter, but not the other way around. then there's some laws of interaction between these two conversions, and the `(>>=)' above, and the usual monadic operations) < 1542048543 127088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I don't remember what I wrote after that conversation, I didn't log it or anything. < 1542048564 335010 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another example would be a version of lists, where we only care about the final number of solutions. so then `m = []' and `n = Const Integer' or somesuch) < 1542048570 925162 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : fair enough < 1542048662 826492 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : hm, so perhaps you could elaborate on "…and thinking about this even more: the behaviour of \">>=\" is effectively part of the monad /action/, whereas the behaviour of \"return\"/\"pure\" isn't, it's only part of the monad /type/" ? < 1542048724 440286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe you mean (Monad x *> x Integer) instead of (Monad x => x Integer)? < 1542048827 874056 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs about presuppositions < 1542048881 924134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542048899 922492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542048908 3035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: well, the only "general-purpose" thing you can do with a monad action is to use its >>= (producing another monad action of the same type) < 1542048983 255399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in a sense, the monad action "is" its >>=, because anything else you could do with it is a special case < 1542048983 344049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542048995 497389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542049007 679577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : meanwhile, "return"/"pure" doesn't take a monad action as argument at all, it's a constructor for monad actions < 1542049018 614855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the monad action you construct doesn't actually have anything to do with the monad it belongs to < 1542049030 996276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all return values from "return"/"pure" have the /same/ >>= < 1542049069 70954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically, "(>>=) (return x)" = "(\f -> return (f x))") < 1542049090 41835 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have access to other monadic operations, for some monad `m', than `return' and `(>>=)', then you can only build actions like e.g. `return x >>= \y -> return (f y)' which (by monad law) is equal to `return (f x)' < 1542049110 411389 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, every action of type `m a' you can build will then be equal to `return x', for some `x' < 1542049115 811914 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not terribly exciting < 1542049135 469920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I guess I'm assuming I have access to some constructors that return impure monad actions < 1542049159 194265 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can do a little more interesting stuff if you take monadic callback arguments, and express patterns of compsing them in particular ways, possibly while simutaneously traversing a data structure, or somesuch) < 1542049197 914837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…actually, I guess that what I'm doing is not wanting to draw a distinction between any instance of "return 4" < 1542049199 628747 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I don't think you can. there's the monad associativity law that says that can't be more interesting. < 1542049217 431238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the thing Oleg mentioned about how you can write dne :: (forall m. Monad m => (a -> m Void) -> m Void) -> a < 1542049230 536253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason why "Just 4" and "[4]" should be considered different values < 1542049239 890687 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas : (simple) examples of such "slightly more interesting" operations i have in mind is `sequence' and `mapM' < 1542049271 18496 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the associativity law says that the "bracketing/grouping" doesn't matter, only the order (may) matter) < 1542049271 236103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/lem.html which is now a 404? Oh no < 1542049317 75982 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : the reason i was "singling out" `Just 4' and `[4]' above was that they can be expressed as `return x', for some `x' < 1542049332 665906 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and `return' is *the* way to express an "efectfully trivial" action < 1542049332 941542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Did I talk mention my weird "rest of block" programming language idea to you? < 1542049340 131976 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : i don't think so < 1542049376 994777 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : i agree this is a bit like singling out the integer zero from all the other integers ("because adding it to something doesn't change the result", so to speak) < 1542049389 842454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: right < 1542049424 580730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess from my point of view, I don't consider "Just 4" and "[4]" to be special in a different sense: the two values are indistinguishable using monad operations, even in an impure language < 1542049450 79787 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my POV, monads are for capturing/expressing "effects". `return' is used when the interface (the type) allows the possibility of an effect, but in this particular case, we don't want one < 1542049468 684016 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but if we never want one, then we don't need to use a monad there) < 1542049474 563790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you imagine an impure language that has monads, you can do things like "x >>= \y.(unsafePerformIO (putStrLN (show y)))" < 1542049492 859434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that lets you distinguish between different monadic actions in x, but you can't distinguish between the various sorts of return 4 < 1542049509 239857 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, not sure what you have in mind by "the two values are indistinguishable using monad operations, even in an impure language" < 1542049545 900099 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : hm, what is the monad used for `(>>=)', there ? < 1542049574 984653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, «(return 4) >>= (\y.(unsafePerformIO (putStrLn (show y)))» is, by monad laws, equivalent to «unsafePerformIO (putStrLn "4")»; and it doesn't matter what the monad you use is < 1542049594 628264 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely [4] and (Just 4) can't be completely interchangable if show can distinguish them < 1542049599 73408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, in the original example, I'm assuming we don't know what type x has, just that it has type (Monad m) => m Integer < 1542049610 631470 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks to me like the type of the latter would be `()'/`unit'/`void', or however you spell it < 1542049626 177176 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't seem to fit the pattern `m a', of a monad `m' applied to a "monadic result type" `a' < 1542049641 791053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: sorry, I forgot a "return" < 1542049645 611305 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1542049669 368571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«x >>= \y.(return (unsafePerformIO (putStrLn (show y))))» < 1542049681 910781 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes ais523 means : just that is has type `m Integer', for some monad `m' (iow for some `m' satisfying `Monad m') < 1542049689 96467 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like show is magical or breaks monad laws or purity or anything there < 1542049694 195325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: yes < 1542049716 456885 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's why i sighed about presuppositions before. i see this sort of confusion in #haskell all the time) < 1542049717 887991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe you're thinking in terms of continuations, and how "return x" always calls its continuation exactly once, or something? < 1542049735 950973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh, I'm assuming that our monad action x has an unknown type other than being a monad action which takes functions that take integers in its >>=, so we can't give it directly as an argument to show because we don't know it implements Show < 1542049737 39609 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : anyway, i'm still now sure where you're going with this "indistinguishable" business < 1542049791 952757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I guess I'm imagining a language with a weaker type regime than Haskell (possibly even untyped), in which case all possible return values from "return 4" are the same value, given that you have no way to distinguish between them < 1542049816 179901 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, it seems to me that's already the case in Haskell < 1542049819 804165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we want a value that's "Maybe Integer" we have two possibilities: a) "return n" for any Integer n; or b) "Nothing" < 1542049836 148930 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1542049941 652776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Maybe and [] are maybe misleading, especially since Maybe is just an affine special case of []. < 1542049947 981341 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so like a... language with a different type system, and Monad defined such that return isn't a method, but a function that doesn't depend on the monad tycon? < 1542049949 302626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say "m" is (e ->) or something. < 1542049973 219395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: which monad is that? Reader? < 1542049984 700097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1542049986 560127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right < 1542050011 943829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I guess I might see what you're getting at < 1542050051 968828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so with Reader, you have "return 4" being "\x.4", and you can likewise perform operations on that without knowing what x is < 1542050055 916997 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then what would the signature of whatever becomes of the (>>=) method in that different Monad be like? < 1542050083 712151 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't even sure what we're currently discussing, anymore < 1542050087 609335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think the >>=(\y.unsafePerformIO (putStrLn (show y))) thing makes sense, though < 1542050090 978884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: same as for any monad < 1542050099 804973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>=) < 1542050101 345013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1542050113 641622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why not? < 1542050152 789422 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then how could that work on both monads created by return and monads created in other ways? < 1542050164 379279 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1542050202 296491 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/monads/monadic actions/, sorry to bother) < 1542050231 223946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which value would that call the continuation with? < 1542050246 546355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's look at it this way: suppose we have an operator, let's call it (>>='), which has type (Monad m1, Monad m2) => m1 a -> (a -> m2 b) -> ? b, where ? is some monad < 1542050260 245443 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, have fun. i have to leave presently. will perhaps check in later) < 1542050262 985168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, what type should ? have? < 1542050282 970870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the answer is "in general you can't answer this, but for many specific cases there's a reasonable answer" < 1542050297 525269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if either m1 or m2 is Identity, then you can make ? work as the other of the two monads < 1542050313 56537 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did we even get here from places in structure fields? < 1542050317 266211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if m1 = m2, then the unknown monad at the end is the same thing < 1542050323 255988 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, um, how did you get here while I was not looking? < 1542050339 648723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, this sort of topic is something that shachaf and I have been discussing on and off for weeks < 1542050393 189576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: This is an orthogonal discussion to the one about structs and lvalues, I think. < 1542050405 136537 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1542050414 128025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if we consistently use >>=' rather than >>=, then a) all existing Haskell code works because m1 and m2 will always have the same type, b) we can consistently define (return a) using the return from Identity, rather than using the original monad, and things will still work < 1542050543 244905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…so I guess what I want is a world in which all monads are associative in the sense that Monad1 (Monad2 x) and Monad2 (Monad1 x) are the same type < 1542050568 966230 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but isn't that impossible? < 1542050575 235468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try to write a concrete language like this and see where it goes wrong < 1542050582 10222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it depends on how many monads you support < 1542050592 53186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certianly possible if you have only a small whitelist of monads < 1542050594 781345 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, if you only have Identity and nothing else that it could work < 1542050622 43161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, we could combine Maybe and List by deleting Nothiing-valued list elements < 1542050677 496807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_law_between_monads < 1542050689 424939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember something about a system that used this? But I don't remember the details < 1542050864 21700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, an even better way to think about this is to think about the mathematical definition of monads (which uses two operations, one of type (x → m x), one of type (m m x → m x)); the ideal would be for the (m m x → m x) to work with two /different/ ms on the LHS < 1542050898 551748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell, at the moment, it's common to use monad transformers for that sort of thing < 1542050924 209196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it's easy enough to write a function (Reader (IO x)) → ((ReaderT IO) x) < 1542050941 781442 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542050967 846789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…do monad /transformers/ always commute with each other? my guess is "not always, but they often do" < 1542050990 284467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1542051000 329230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad transformers are kind of ad-hoc < 1542051014 52167 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't commute < 1542051022 681101 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndtowjjxdbhvhvvl JOIN :#esoteric < 1542051536 109456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: So the idea is that you have a bunch of control flow things that affect "the rest of the block" < 1542051553 817431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Like { if(p); ... } for what's normally written as if (p) { ... } < 1542051567 295020 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host81-136-80-199.range81-136.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542051571 606902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And { x := for(xs); ... } for what's normally for (x : xs) { ... } or something < 1542051619 299488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now think that maybe this should be marked more explicitly, something like { if(p)`; ... }, where ` on a value means "pass the rest of the block as a continuation" < 1542051674 539623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is maybe similar to delimited continuations in a restricted form, with {} having a role similar to reset? < 1542051683 944723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And { A; B; C; } meaning { A; { B; C; } } < 1542051829 884638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of something like that? < 1542051859 798034 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you've asked about that earlier here, I think < 1542051879 862306 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think some time I wanted to have the possibility to have a macro in JavaScript that allows passing the rest of the function as a continuation. < 1542051893 134145 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's prolog's nondeterminism which you could think of as a special case of that < 1542052548 624021 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not delimited, it takes the whole rest of the run of the program, not just the rest of the "block" < 1542052708 372195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you have an alternative (based on ; or on a second definition of the same predicate) < 1542055067 983738 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now added two new responses to the Netsubscribe protocol, which are & (deferred processing) and T (timeout). > 1542055325 681020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58344&oldid=57018 5* 03Camto 5* (+69) 10Burlesque < 1542055481 430231 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542055500 237570 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542055504 481818 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 QUIT :Client Quit > 1542056716 453865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58345&oldid=58336 5* 03Cortex 5* (+23) 10 > 1542056780 814034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58346&oldid=58345 5* 03Cortex 5* (+0) 10/* Numbers from 1 to 10 */ > 1542057094 322930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58347&oldid=58346 5* 03Cortex 5* (+168) 10 > 1542057118 637717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58348&oldid=58347 5* 03Cortex 5* (+4) 10 > 1542058336 677822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Web framework list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58349&oldid=50039 5* 03Camto 5* (+21) 10Retrieved from Wayback Machine. < 1542059572 518919 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... > 1542062258 187513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58350&oldid=57956 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+76) 10 < 1542064497 123898 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1542065607 388998 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542065858 462915 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542065874 313409 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542066034 90405 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542066803 749217 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.20.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542066996 774145 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542066997 269050 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.20.124 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542066997 902615 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.20.124 QUIT :Changing host < 1542066997 902682 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542067468 421213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What port number should be in use for Netsubscribe protocol? < 1542067691 370531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if it ever becomes popular enough a number would likely be officially assigned; if not, people will use their own numbers, but I suggest you recommend a number that currently isn't in common use < 1542067709 332665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lists of port numbers in common use, I think, so you could find such a list and pick an arbitrary number that isn't on it < 1542067856 595657 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542067868 950177 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542067957 523426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's [[List of TCP and UDP port numbers]] is a pretty reasonable one, including both official and unofficial assignments. > 1542067961 513254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07High Rise14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58351 5* 03Ais523 5* (+9511) 10about time I wrote this up < 1542067974 355158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did find that > 1542067994 209600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58352&oldid=58338 5* 03Ais523 5* (+16) 10/* H */ +[[High Rise]] > 1542068022 78566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58353&oldid=58062 5* 03Ais523 5* (+15) 10+[[High Rise]] < 1542068060 472319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542068491 880635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure which one I should use, though. < 1542068822 370387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps should trying to figure out which ones are not officially assigned and that other software that uses them is unlikely to be running on the same computer. < 1542068922 984241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What number is your suggestion? < 1542069301 233805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not choose one at random (that's above 1024), and reroll until you find one that isn't in use? that's normally a good way to reduce the chances of collisions < 1542069429 723352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I suppose that could be used. < 1542069820 37671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA says that 9296 is currently unassigned, and Wikipedia does not list a use of that number either. < 1542069928 993378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542069948 865686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542070119 91611 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can read the new version of the protocol document, because I have made many changes. I will also try to start to implement < 1542070577 383782 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Excess Flood < 1542070600 363069 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1542071341 782238 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542071379 860777 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542071595 988513 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542072901 223578 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542073268 854389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1542074888 765639 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542075064 968232 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.224.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542075065 56096 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.224.130 QUIT :Changing host < 1542075065 56138 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542078487 126772 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1542078503 315587 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric > 1542078547 176923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Web framework list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58354&oldid=58349 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-18) 10/* Esoteric frameworks for ordinary languages */ Template < 1542079736 51766 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask shachaf regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet? < 1542079736 347319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542079782 4018 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misspelled both parts of the name before looking it up < 1542080290 473440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loer < 1542080290 560065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan asked 9m 14s ago: regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet? < 1542080307 305147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1542080464 438390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it? < 1542081773 591311 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://canonical.org/~kragen/raph-io.html < 1542081801 480906 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542081813 844894 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric > 1542081993 472436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58355&oldid=58233 5* 03Cortex 5* (+69) 10 > 1542082074 664220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TEPCS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58356&oldid=58246 5* 03Cortex 5* (+24) 10 > 1542082161 252683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58357&oldid=58348 5* 03Cortex 5* (+99) 10 < 1542082593 69137 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/Ganymede is an implementation < 1542083656 284405 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542083668 749410 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542083890 551676 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at the document of siginfo_t structure. I am not sure what use si_ptr is (since it is probably an address belonging to a different process), and I don't know why it does not include SIGPIPE. < 1542085183 176980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Io continuations delimited? < 1542085195 623770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find much information about it. Maybe I can find the paper. < 1542085323 828283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1542086014 812941 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no < 1542086069 351092 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not that i've seen. i think they're pretty minimalistic. < 1542086111 187698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether delimited continuations are more or less minimalistic than regular continuations. < 1542087269 801780 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean, they're pretty much just lambda expressions that have no result but always just call another one < 1542087300 429233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delimited continuations, regular continuations, or Io things? < 1542087311 367417 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :io things < 1542087320 327162 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language where everything is CPS < 1542087580 815902 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542087589 282757 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542088206 213448 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542095173 776448 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542096495 709197 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1542096935 980298 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542097978 708884 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542097994 699378 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542098068 453562 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndtowjjxdbhvhvvl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542098550 542768 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542098921 632454 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1542099475 22873 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542099509 670775 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542100230 410451 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542100243 569507 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542103884 689993 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542106125 846558 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542106202 37927 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" there are lists of port numbers in common use, I think, so you could find such a list and pick an arbitrary number that isn't on it" => Yeah, the problem is that there are only 65536 port numbers each for TCP and UDP (even in IPV6), and a large range of that is generally wanted for non-common port numbers as the other side of connections. < 1542106246 310119 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some tricky modern solution where there's a directory service per server where you can query the port number for a service based on some name that can be longer than two bytes, but I'm not sur how it works. < 1542106303 314488 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, for many protocols, you can just run multiple things on the same port and differentiate by content, such as on a HTTP or HTTPS port and differentiate by the URL, or different versions of the same protocol by some headers. < 1542106398 216156 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in this case for usenet, if you're designing a protocol that tries to replace an old one, you might want a mechanism where one side connects to whatever is the normal port for usenet, and by some handshake it can tell whether the other side supports the newer protocol, or it has to fall back to the older protocol instead. < 1542106461 952092 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't use port number 0, the unix socket interface is badly designed and doesn't easily allow you to bind to it. < 1542106495 904222 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The system calls interpret port number 0 in bind as letting the tcp/udp layer choose a port, which you can query with getsockname. < 1542106749 904570 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This dispatching on a single connection still works later if the client is set to just disconnect if the new protocol is not available. < 1542106845 143450 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sigaction.2.html about siginfo_t < 1542107382 548242 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am not sure what use si_ptr is (since it is probably an address belonging to a different process)" => it's an opaque value that the kernel doesn't care about, it doesn't need to be a real pointer although it could be, it's between the two processes to define its meaning. it's a pointer type to make sure it's wide enough. < 1542107421 407777 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have it be an opaque handler small integer, or a pointer into a shapred memory region, possibly relative to its base, or a file offset, or whatever. < 1542107597 894328 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re SIGPIPE, it's true that http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sigaction.2.html doesn't mention it, nor does http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/toc.htm . probably there's no special handling in SA_SIGINFO handlers for SIGPIPE, < 1542107620 947365 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you rarely want to handle SIGPIPE in any complicated way anyway, you just look for the EPIPE errno from syscalls instead. < 1542107677 727641 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a synchronious error, it was only a signal for historical compatibility reasons to provide a sane default for small programs that don't bother to handle write errors, but then programs need to do that anyway for other unexpected write errors too. < 1542107794 537527 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also like to mention that you shouldn't be confused by siginfo_t having so many fields. It can actually be a union with fields overlapping, the concrete definition on linux is https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/uapi/asm-generic/siginfo.h?h=v4.20-rc2 < 1542108463 191990 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542108798 132491 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to document Burlesque's syntax. < 1542108801 298657 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :F*ck me :( < 1542108813 336098 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be done without also documenting the exact order of how Burlesque tries to parse things. < 1542108824 875149 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what it does: it tries to apply a rule and if it doesn't match it tries the next rule. < 1542108869 404757 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Built-ins don't really have a syntax. < 1542109132 741091 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I gotta document blsq ) begin lisp (?+ (?* 3 2) 1) end lisp < 1542109133 902776 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1542109381 673496 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: good luck < 1542109434 896801 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1542109437 562358 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y``@|[(yabcdY)to]| YShpe < 1542109441 497356 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what this does. < 1542109494 992602 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y Y is a block quote < 1542109512 574277 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason you can actually quote more than one identifier. < 1542109529 27698 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why this is even possible < 1542109638 201061 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in case a built-in wants more than one identifier arguments. < 1542109969 980842 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I doubt anybody knew that @'a gives you an infinite list of 'a's < 1542110004 546696 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's documented though. < 1542111704 660840 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542112330 134497 :Unitan!58e69f65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.230.159.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542112345 492345 :Unitan!58e69f65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.230.159.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1542112391 635533 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo < 1542112512 970646 :Unitan!58e69f65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.230.159.101 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542112803 203857 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1542114612 493528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Unitan 5* 10New user account > 1542114801 598399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58358&oldid=58318 5* 03Unitan 5* (+155) 10 < 1542115070 396356 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542116142 718057 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1542116378 488654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58359 5* 03Unitan 5* (+1459) 10Created page with "[[Doreq]] is a [[OISC]] interpreter of the same named instruction. ==Basic== Each doreq instruction has 8 memory address operands. A B C X Y Z J K If the value at memory..." > 1542116614 830268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58360&oldid=58352 5* 03Unitan 5* (+12) 10/* Adding Doreq */ > 1542117177 946199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58361&oldid=58359 5* 03Unitan 5* (+733) 10Inserted a JS Interpreter < 1542117244 843735 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntowlymlqciejznz JOIN :#esoteric < 1542118134 944224 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542118159 914284 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.89 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542118160 27513 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.89 QUIT :Changing host < 1542118160 74304 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542121656 811649 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1542123039 699476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58362&oldid=58360 5* 03Backspace 5* (+10) 10added Eul < 1542123721 254848 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542124457 810768 :Storkman!~Storkman@185.24.219.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542125642 864799 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric > 1542127494 540740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58363&oldid=58361 5* 03Unitan 5* (-44) 10 < 1542128196 164615 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542128230 812499 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542128624 316991 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542128798 405505 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1542129502 172317 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542129518 674593 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542129607 309857 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542130078 220419 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542130346 583582 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, NNTP can still be used for Usenet, because Netsubscribe is a bit different use. (Even if it was, you couldn't then use both protocols together if the same port number is in use, whether for the same or for two different purposes) < 1542130511 671968 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542130571 82519 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1542131017 553404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58364&oldid=58363 5* 03Unitan 5* (+269) 10 < 1542131822 284400 :Storkman!~Storkman@185.24.219.33 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542140720 778776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03LLmd 5* 10New user account > 1542141470 717924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58365&oldid=58358 5* 03LLmd 5* (+216) 10/* Introductions */ < 1542142547 993791 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 > 1542143809 953363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliVode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58366 5* 03LLmd 5* (+694) 10Created page with "SimpliVode (Originally SimpleCodeV) is a one-instruction language that has no branching, operators or comparisons. It only has one command: mem 1542145029 900110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58367 5* 03LLmd 5* (+447) 10Created page with "SimplScript is a derivative of [[SimpliVode]], with one important difference: the addition of the rpt command. rpt {} rpt repeats the code in un..." > 1542145134 742378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58368&oldid=58367 5* 03LLmd 5* (-4) 10 > 1542145181 660375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58369&oldid=58368 5* 03LLmd 5* (+3) 10 > 1542145298 20089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58370&oldid=58369 5* 03LLmd 5* (+57) 10 < 1542145329 435227 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-bceeeb-225.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542145365 27545 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bceeeb-225.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric > 1542145664 83231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58371&oldid=58370 5* 03LLmd 5* (+172) 10 > 1542145693 631024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimpliScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58372&oldid=58371 5* 03LLmd 5* (-675) 10Blanked the page < 1542147620 861923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542147856 575844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1542148618 356218 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542148840 832651 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542150779 591161 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1542151411 63063 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542152658 659807 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542154029 516585 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542154063 736779 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542154170 469659 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntowlymlqciejznz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542154395 295792 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542154903 250313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542155797 828601 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1542155900 942572 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542158497 405062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1542159558 975863 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542161268 346117 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542161397 928999 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542161398 281456 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.17 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542161398 648033 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.104.17 QUIT :Changing host < 1542161398 648086 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542164430 669120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542164643 721484 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542164988 134833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echo Tag14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58373 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2489) 10anyone care to help me prove this one TC for small n? when n is small enough, it's probably easier/more concise to implement than cyclic tag or fusion tag > 1542165011 749515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58374&oldid=58362 5* 03Ais523 5* (+15) 10/* E */ +Echo Tag < 1542165028 269470 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1542165028 360094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. > 1542165032 269696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58375&oldid=58353 5* 03Ais523 5* (+14) 10+[[Echo Tag]] < 1542170973 757131 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542171669 788865 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542171693 293328 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542174144 71610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: whoa whoa whoa < 1542174775 39980 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542174787 413998 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542174801 864093 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542174863 388219 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungone < 1542176320 17321 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1542176611 160116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58376&oldid=58364 5* 03Unitan 5* (+714) 10Added the super woke super rekter interpreter. > 1542177042 560343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Doreq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58377&oldid=58376 5* 03Unitan 5* (+17) 10 < 1542177468 269013 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542177640 884572 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542177822 936631 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lord snackleford seems a bit sensitive < 1542177906 687878 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542178531 221545 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542181639 227636 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric > 1542181802 492601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58378&oldid=58342 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+441) 10 < 1542183592 66569 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542183607 790609 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542184389 231079 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542186228 496506 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1542186334 691912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58379&oldid=58245 5* 03Haael 5* (+137) 10/* Joke/Silly Ideas */ < 1542188422 862929 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fxssmzpasgwmlxcw JOIN :#esoteric < 1542192025 899289 :LissajousPattern!~Lissajous@unaffiliated/lissajouspattern JOIN :#esoteric < 1542195871 673502 :LissajousPattern!~Lissajous@unaffiliated/lissajouspattern QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1542198495 931845 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse "<><" < 1542198498 62273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "<><" < 1542198615 844880 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1542199410 223633 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542199528 300050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104692-belf11-2-0-cust725.2-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542199536 214809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104692-belf11-2-0-cust725.2-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1542199536 261382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542199735 854935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems fishy < 1542199742 50762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fish < 1542199743 462501 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. < 1542200236 201588 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542200387 241796 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1542201013 516183 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542202536 651406 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542203239 312404 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542204627 426294 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542204758 760716 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.56.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542204758 992471 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.56.160 QUIT :Changing host < 1542204758 992521 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542205342 864699 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542205419 662271 :jix!~jix@209.250.235.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542206357 880370 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542209067 299770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542211694 126007 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542211812 82757 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember kids: jJQ are identifiers and not specials while ,%@:) are specials and modifiers whereas #j #J #Q #q are identifiers but behave as modifiers and q is neither an identifier, nor a special nor a modifier but a syntax prefix. < 1542211853 448215 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in case there's a matching ( in which case the ) is parsed as the closing paren of the ( in which case it is not a special. < 1542211868 636431 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1542211924 282253 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also @ is the special @ and ``@ is the identifier @ so @ can also be a command as well. < 1542212009 133325 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m, f and r are syntax prefixes when followed by a { in which case the block turns into an auto-block. < 1542212023 220475 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-blocks are blocks that get evaluated before being pushed to the stack. < 1542212196 821018 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and %%=1 is not a syntax error because of the fail safe parsing which turns %%=1 into the special % < 1542212221 701381 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. % is actually not a modifier. < 1542212231 912114 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a special but not a modifier. < 1542212257 946537 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet. < 1542212530 354132 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the only way to actually get a special % is by screwing up the syntax for assignment < 1542212593 702318 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This certainly sounds very esoteric < 1542212614 144367 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you gotta be careful when screwing it up < 1542212617 980427 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :%%1 would parse as % % 1 < 1542212624 208431 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :%%=1 parses as % < 1542212656 859391 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542212682 705361 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of stuff is parsed using parsec's try < 1542212740 354010 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m{9} parses as an auto-block {9} and m{9 parses as the builtin m{ and 9 < 1542212861 126638 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :function level scope is achieved by having a variable __SCOPE__ in the global context. < 1542212884 750418 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can overwrite of course. < 1542212925 374202 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of old hacks. < 1542214774 700215 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542215184 876770 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542216070 785374 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542219282 197045 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1542222164 77354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Doreq14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58380 5* 03Nthern 5* (+284) 10Turing Complete? < 1542222393 300284 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fxssmzpasgwmlxcw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542223545 715230 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1542223682 121540 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542225569 192956 :Subject777!6d646e30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.100.110.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542225665 935688 :Subject777!6d646e30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.100.110.48 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542225862 339991 :MDead_!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1542226533 153698 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1542228488 339971 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1542228502 838195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542228969 249919 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542229119 433441 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there two Phantom_Hoovers? < 1542229212 856521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542229232 208784 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1542229707 317361 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542231276 942737 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542233946 796077 :MDead_!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542234062 705636 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542234591 32613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different number of _s < 1542236119 485080 :Camto!462d17f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.23.240 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1542236403 975323 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542236971 141181 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542237606 512967 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1542237866 787642 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542238187 869273 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542238328 313951 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542238382 838728 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542238485 866312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542238571 143465 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542238749 846919 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542238749 936575 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542238777 860888 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542238844 719612 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542238848 896774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542239098 398326 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542239291 875559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542239310 903876 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542240887 291281 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542241525 908518 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542241550 896474 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542241576 469693 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542242431 94125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1542243494 720048 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542245490 256443 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542245649 706464 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to compare writable digital media for backup and transfer. < 1542245806 92683 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 pieces of blank DVD-R or DVD+R disks of capacity 4.7 GB each cost 6470 HUF. 8 pieces of class 10 micro-SDHC cards of capacity 32 GB each cost 14721 HUF, which is 2.3 times the previous one. Both prices include slow shipping. < 1542245938 41739 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These two options have comparable total capacity, comparable read and write speeds in practice. both can be read and written by cheap high-speed USB drives. micro-SDHC cards are smaller and less sensitive to storing conditions. It's hard to tell how long they last because that depends on the brand and make and storing conditions, but we at least kn < 1542245938 212589 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow that DVDs fail gradually with some data recoverable cheaply at home, whereas SDHC cards fail catastrophically with data recoverable from a failed drive only by professional services. < 1542245968 470454 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will also have to look at rotation hard disks. < 1542246110 686151 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the most cost-effective size for rotation hard disks these days? < 1542246115 676179 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :capacity I mean < 1542246163 844654 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously in practice I also have to take in account that I've already bought some micro-SD cards and blank DVD, so I can use those, but still < 1542246636 166738 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so for SATA rotational hard disks, the most cost-effective capacity for home use seems to be 2 TB or 4 TB, costing around 21000 HUF and 41000 HUF resp. < 1542246903 304850 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542247000 378956 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542247100 997022 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542247167 766338 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These have a pretty high speed, much higher than the SD cards or DVDs, though the exact speed varies. If I use them externally with a hard disk rack connected through USB3, then the speed will be capped by the USB3 root hub to 625 MB/s and there's one USB3 root hub in most home computers. < 1542247301 962379 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In comparison, the medium price class 10 sd cards I was talking about above have speed between 10 MB/s and 45 MB/s; more expensive cards that I use for my digital camera where the wait time of saving a picture matters can go up to 90 MB/s < 1542247591 922795 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for bulk amounts of data, the DVDs are 2.7 times more expensive than the hard disk, and the SD cards are 5.6 times more expensive. < 1542247624 542382 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in practice, I'll rarely fill a 4 TB hard disk, so the practical price difference is lower. < 1542247665 854314 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542247684 533533 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard disks need a more expensive external SATA rack and cables, and are bulkier than SD cards but less bulky than DVDs. < 1542247825 446950 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.197.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542247831 643302 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice I'll definitely use a combination of hard disks and (SD cards or DVD) for backup and off-site backup; SD cards or DVD for transferring data to other people; and obviously SD cards for mobile phone and digital camera and similar devices, with the camera requiring slightly more expensive fast SD cards. < 1542247843 879135 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's best to see the current state cleanly to figure this out. < 1542247902 943310 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542247903 238450 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.197.26 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542247903 639172 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.197.26 QUIT :Changing host < 1542247903 639216 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542248077 450299 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542248649 858776 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@140.160.182.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542252152 724193 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542252184 770528 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542259148 692223 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542261565 863895 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aealsqdqrropesyl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542261626 330096 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542261643 215325 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qelamtszdqypnvnr JOIN :#esoteric < 1542261662 730287 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1542261761 352437 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1542261761 352496 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric > 1542263252 37391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An esoteric programming language (ess-oh-terr-ick), or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use.14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58381 5* 03Schmuui 5* (+716) 10I don't think this has ever happened before. < 1542263312 124456 :Schmuui!7cbfd9e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.217.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542263323 900771 :Schmuui!7cbfd9e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.217.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :henlo > 1542263552 994831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58382&oldid=58344 5* 03Schmuui 5* (+99) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1542263582 307127 :Schmuui!7cbfd9e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.217.231 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542264047 322813 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542266056 257347 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542266353 234710 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1542266748 442491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58383&oldid=58382 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-99) 10Undo revision 58382 by [[Special:Contributions/Schmuui|Schmuui]] ([[User talk:Schmuui|talk]]) (See sentence in bold above) > 1542267020 829750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10moved [[02A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.10]] to [[A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.]]: Someone changed it again > 1542267379 865734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Programming Language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58386 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+127) 10Time to save some work on the updating < 1542267434 739652 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait should it be linked... < 1542267444 47691 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it avoid it? > 1542267501 850705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58387&oldid=58386 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-4) 10Test something > 1542267635 160867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58388&oldid=58374 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-109) 10Yay it works > 1542267827 555968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rottytooth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58389&oldid=51007 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-104) 10Hope you don't mind me adding the template here > 1542267981 577470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.10]]": Clean up after an old name change > 1542268082 584321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58390&oldid=52537 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-109) 10Cross fingers that this works... > 1542268318 642275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58391&oldid=58390 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+99) 10Seems not. At least subst: might work. > 1542268368 475963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An esoteric programming language (ess-oh-terr-ick), or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58392&oldid=58381 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-351) 10Use new template > 1542268894 401605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58393&oldid=58384 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-363) 10Templatize for sanity < 1542268922 256750 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542268985 199861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.10]]": Finish (I hope) cleanup after renaming < 1542269357 859812 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542269370 297607 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542271547 622475 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542272852 758226 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1542276921 685452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VeriBasic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58394 5* 03TeslaX93 5* (+409) 10Created page with "VeriBasic is a programming language, inspired by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verilog Verilog] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP PHP]. == Examples == // "Hello, world!"..." > 1542276933 897567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VeriBasic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58395&oldid=58394 5* 03TeslaX93 5* (-1) 10 > 1542278265 698109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VeriBasic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58396&oldid=58395 5* 03TeslaX93 5* (+65) 10 > 1542278379 619891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58397 5* 03Ais523 5* (+4015) 10yet another new language > 1542278417 402609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58398&oldid=58388 5* 03Ais523 5* (+30) 10/* A */ +[[An Odd Rewriting System]] > 1542278451 519934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58399&oldid=58397 5* 03Ais523 5* (+131) 10/* Syntax */ clarify whitespace and comments > 1542278493 90905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58400&oldid=58375 5* 03Ais523 5* (+29) 10+[[An Odd Rewriting System]] > 1542278839 647708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58401&oldid=58399 5* 03Ais523 5* (+5) 10pipe year link < 1542281861 669798 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dywjzunbcsyffees JOIN :#esoteric < 1542282753 368548 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542283833 127175 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542285396 696952 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542285429 820858 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got my new eyeglasses! < 1542285468 201809 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1542285469 616979 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wearing it, but it will take at least weeks to decide how good it is, and more to find out how long-lasting it is. < 1542285561 172885 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think eyeglasses are plural. < 1542285585 135455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's a monocle. < 1542285661 279692 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For several years now I've been buying my eyeglasses on my own, as in from my own money without my parents' substantial help; but among those this is the first one where I brought the frame in a place other than the regular optician. < 1542285700 343624 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I bought the frame and the lens in different places, that has some risk, because there are some damages that won't be covered by warranty at either place because either of them can blame the other for the frame and lens being incompatible. < 1542285730 252927 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, my regular optics shop has had too little choice in frames for a while now, so I decided to take that risk. < 1542285798 794470 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the future, when I buy the frame separately, I should be more specific in saying what kind of lens I will use. < 1542289221 291975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542290971 272196 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.199.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542291068 434606 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542291068 539919 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.199.104 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542291068 815113 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.199.104 QUIT :Changing host < 1542291068 815156 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542292123 458342 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.82 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1542293493 628412 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542294526 259886 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542294975 168243 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1542295815 453244 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542295949 736409 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542297237 707162 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542297548 860964 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542297643 592305 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542298033 203620 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542299759 37638 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkknfdudnpivplan JOIN :#esoteric < 1542300422 161441 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542300465 360982 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542303126 815779 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542307346 178097 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542307471 138578 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the correct terminology for map f $ xs? < 1542307475 926827 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is mapped over xs? < 1542307478 838405 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is applied over xs? < 1542307622 862175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f applied to xs < 1542307691 57349 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but f $ xs is also f applied to xs < 1542308380 523163 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because ($) is the identity function < 1542308405 36057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ 3 == (succ $ 3) < 1542308407 879689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1542308468 602738 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh. < 1542308478 566501 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if map f xs applies f to xs and f xs applies f to xs < 1542308488 75894 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's weird because those are two completely different things. < 1542309161 377160 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news. < 1542309169 644761 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only about 300 built-ins left to document. < 1542309220 188100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (+1) (*2) < 1542309225 926229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+1) is mapped over (*2) < 1542309386 815408 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542309581 571152 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I document 5 a day I'll be done in two months :D < 1542309669 963899 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542309704 411768 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542311827 900112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542311909 354349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have weird conjecture: AORS a) is Turing-complete, but b) cannot simulate every Turing machine in polynomial time < 1542311913 246798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a weird conjecture < 1542311961 86852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I don't know that either half of this is correct for certain < 1542311979 356228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have lots of potential leads for implementing TC languages in AORS and all of them seem to involve an exponential slowdown… < 1542313330 239701 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542313505 81483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that's a funny one < 1542313543 817481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably have used x:even:odd for the syntax if I had thought of this < 1542313589 994698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or add some silliness and write x?odd:even; < 1542313628 186575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of x:even:odd first, but this syntax is intended to be extensible to variants of the language (and in particular, higher-level languages that compile into AORS but are compatible with it) < 1542313644 262628 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dywjzunbcsyffees QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542313786 722828 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542313810 274781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1542313822 782166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542314304 723077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542314378 254835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542316115 369990 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Well, would you look at the time. I've almost missed my ambiguous, non-existent appointment that I have scheduled just when I start to lose interest in my current conversation. < 1542316270 226821 :wob_jonas!b03f182b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542316281 46353 :wob_jonas!b03f182b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is AORS? < 1542316303 58154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/An_Odd_Rewriting_System < 1542316450 476990 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1542316494 489990 :wob_jonas!b03f182b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.43 QUIT :Client Quit > 1542316642 234158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AORS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58402 5* 03B jonas 5* (+37) 10Redirected page to [[An Odd Rewriting System]] < 1542319375 642457 :MDead_!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1542319396 742017 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542319506 936254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Do you know something about callCC with restricted lifetime for the continuation? < 1542319659 137345 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1542320498 638341 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542320678 274713 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.76.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542320727 711177 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkknfdudnpivplan QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542321075 289991 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542321965 896805 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1542322507 28514 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542322518 296592 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542324021 892729 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542324682 453604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1542329419 791806 :mig22!~mig@66.96.204.123 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542329485 426074 :mig22!~mig@66.96.204.123 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542329629 824697 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvqkmyzlmyudhvoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1542329750 421103 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542329788 404289 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542330660 93121 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542332036 971177 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542334300 796465 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.216.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542334351 267925 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542334428 713253 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.216.15 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542334474 916797 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.216.15 QUIT :Changing host < 1542334474 916857 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542340068 143046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Cortex 5* 10moved [[02A10]] to [[Apple Pie]] < 1542342202 663170 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvqkmyzlmyudhvoo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1542342272 992577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58405&oldid=58403 5* 03Cortex 5* (+99) 10 > 1542342423 333240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58406&oldid=58398 5* 03Cortex 5* (+8) 10 < 1542342698 953654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a kind of backgammon game with dice and cards. You have sixteen pieces, and the pieces have suits. Dice can move any one but cards only move pieces of the same suit. You must roll one dice and then play one card. You have two cards face-up and two cards are face-down so it cannot be seen by opponent. > 1542342871 928768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58407&oldid=58337 5* 03Cortex 5* (+76) 10 < 1542343585 812200 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqmiujcqaqndbibl JOIN :#esoteric > 1542344459 285676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02A10]]": content was: "#REDIRECT [[Apple Pie]]", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Cortex|Cortex]]" ([[User talk:Cortex|talk]]) < 1542346935 906954 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this changing of homlomium to homnomium intentional or an error by the foglios... < 1542347048 946623 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shortly after agatha finally got it right :P < 1542347625 714221 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the last comic makes me wonder, what if _guy mentioned there_ gets to drink lord bunstable's brew... < 1542347695 126465 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( this channel has got too quiet lately ) < 1542347730 576074 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do not know the answer of that question, so, I did not answer < 1542347738 418668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542347780 362410 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i mean, too many people no longer talk here, and few new ones are showing up < 1542347796 216807 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to blame that discord thing he hears about < 1542347798 493853 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542348075 414621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IRC is much better, although possibly the program can be made can be both a Discord client and IRC client to copy messages between them. < 1542348195 245908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought it was too quiet because you're never here! < 1542348225 266239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i've been esoing it up so don't blame me hth < 1542348241 662412 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1542353103 472688 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp soul < 1542353105 282167 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee:Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic. \ mosquito:Mosquitos are tiny vampires, sucking out your soul. < 1542353132 900646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( a soul-searching moment ) < 1542353283 992158 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542353553 966026 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542353854 464339 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542355737 733023 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542356871 249103 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542356884 808117 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542357306 915730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Rich Farmbrough 5* 10New user account > 1542357998 837172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58408&oldid=58365 5* 03Rich Farmbrough 5* (+150) 10Befunged? > 1542358056 418155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Rich Farmbrough14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58409 5* 03Rich Farmbrough 5* (+66) 10Created page with "This is my talk page. I'm unlikely to see anything written on it." > 1542358228 64467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rich Farmbrough14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58410 5* 03Rich Farmbrough 5* (+39) 10Redirected page to [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough]] < 1542358402 805911 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqmiujcqaqndbibl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1542358427 299632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Malbolge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58411&oldid=58108 5* 03Rich Farmbrough 5* (-1) 10/* Virtual machine description */ < 1542358570 793150 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1542361682 246982 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542361845 9343 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542361918 8615 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1542361923 772480 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542361943 206936 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542361960 880055 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542361997 800618 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542362013 222389 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.216.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542362013 742284 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.216.15 QUIT :Changing host < 1542362013 742333 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542366334 781980 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542366424 739632 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re "kind of backgammon game with dice and cards", do you know the Niagara board game "https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13308/niagara" ? I find it elegant how it has so little state information. < 1542366482 984500 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objectively it's not much less than some other board games that don't have shuffled decks of cards, but it still looks so simple that that somehow captures me. < 1542366505 504767 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly the physical implementation of the board is tricky. < 1542366651 731844 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, < 1542366653 794333 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2696849/mushy-stuff/ < 1542366654 233044 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ehlist: not found < 1542366659 259141 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should create those list files some day < 1542367921 737837 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542367942 873194 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542368460 386619 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 > 1542369808 893431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58412 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4559) 10Another ancient language themed esolang I'm trying to develop, using Linear A < 1542371456 922271 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542372903 282239 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542374483 696631 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542376775 813695 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542377388 695734 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.225.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542377616 233773 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542377616 744387 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@79.125.225.230 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542377617 110426 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.225.230 QUIT :Changing host < 1542377617 110470 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542377991 971250 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542378273 579630 :olsner_!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542378846 257843 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : hm, like `call/ec' and `call/cc1' in Scheme ? < 1542378984 537791 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542380793 790307 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542381170 200953 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542382999 861606 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axzqpstgtksvumgo JOIN :#esoteric < 1542384518 263211 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542384582 987304 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1542385408 916 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:7868:e1c5:329c:edc8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542385928 747038 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542386052 426856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542389930 443625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1542390307 187538 :olsner_!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se NICK :olsner < 1542392838 211683 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now SQLite has a better way to specify unusable query plans in a virtual table (not released yet). < 1542394136 202204 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542395797 769099 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542396785 790493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: What's call/cc1? > 1542404152 220273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LMBC14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58413 5* 03Cortex 5* (+4953) 10Created page with "'''LMBC''' (Language Made By Cortex) is a brainfuck equivalent made by [[User:Cortex]] which Cortex made. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Brainfuck !! LMBC (which was m..." < 1542404385 292981 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542404413 742899 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you, stupid phpBB for printing timestamps only as "Today" and "Yesterday" instead of a proper date < 1542404516 193509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that isn't very good. Can you fix it? < 1542404523 484785 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think usually (?) the ISO timestamp is available as an attribute on the timestamp tag (not sure about phpbb zpecifically, but on online forums in general) < 1542404558 554574 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away... < 1542404565 665452 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not running that instance. I'm not going to run any instance of that stupid forum, I'm just participating on several different around the web. < 1542404590 614452 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then perhaps you could add a Stylish or GreaseMonkey code to alter it < 1542404621 357007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should instead to use a NNTP server, I think < 1542404633 71995 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes, that's what StackExchange does in _most_ (but not all) cases of dates. PhpBB doesn't, I checked. It has a little note saying "(ISO 8601)" next to the date instead. Even when it's not. So very fucking useful. < 1542404654 523356 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: in fact, it literally says "Today, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)" < 1542404751 552869 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sigh... that reminds me to work, sadly. they have a computer that has very limited internet access through a strict external firewall, for security purposes, and it can't connect to the NTP server because of that, < 1542404761 831410 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds useless < 1542404769 997679 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know reddit and twitter both have the exact ISO timestamp at least < 1542404778 129373 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some reason I can't manually set the date either, because something on Windows resets it, and the time is 24 hours behind actual time, < 1542404789 470451 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's not often twitter is better than oldschool forums at something) < 1542404803 922602 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm sure will cause some troubles since the computer is logging data that will now have a very incorrect timestamp < 1542404806 768841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should complain that the date is incorrect. < 1542404833 547080 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to deal with the stupid boss of that company to bother his nonexisting sysadmin to fix the firewall or the machine < 1542404856 650841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably they should fix both < 1542404857 548170 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've complained. The problem is that I'll have to complain to another person instead, who won't fix it. Darn. < 1542404916 217484 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That computer isn't even in our company, it's a computer where we're installing custom software that we make, but the network is partly set up by their company, so it's only their side that could provide an NTP server. < 1542404950 578002 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody understands windows and nobody will pay a proper sysadmin who understands it, so they won't be able to fix the computer itself, whatever is causing to reset the time when I try to change it. < 1542405036 557209 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already hate how the city barely has any publically displayed clocks anymore, you can only find any on train station platforms, so if my mobile phone isn't working, I can't tell the time, like ever. < 1542405059 515533 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently everyone just assumes that everyone else has a working watch and they never need to adjust it. < 1542405082 597253 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decade ago we used to have clocks everywhere, because it's useful. And thermometers. < 1542405163 592610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The skytrain station near here has a display of the time, although it is a display that also displays other stuff and only briefly displays the time, during its cycle of everything else, so you have to wait for a while to see what time it is. < 1542405212 349519 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not sure who to complain to to tell them to fix it so that you can always see what time it is.) < 1542405235 81932 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Keleti Pályaudvar railway station building used to have a beutifully ugly but highly visible big clock face with glowing fluorescent tubes for the two hands. They removed that a decade ago when they renovated the building. < 1542405287 579327 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they have a clock there with black hands and the dial (face) lit from below, which is much harder to see during the night, and still hard to see during the day. < 1542405324 22027 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's still ugly, only in a different way. The whole point of a big clock there was that it's at the end of a long straight road segment, so you could see the clock from far away. But no, they had to ruin that. < 1542405351 189947 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they could have replaced the fluorescent tubes with led strips if that's easier to maintain, but no. < 1542405393 235379 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst is the swimming pool I'm using, because I definitely can't take a mobile phone in the pool, but want to know the time while swimming. < 1542405428 584392 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half of the time they don't have a working clock at all; the other half they have a clock that's not visible enough, at least for me because I also don't wear glasses or contacts in the pool. < 1542405436 463966 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the swimming pool I have seen near here, I can see through the window, that in the same room with the pool there is a large display on the wall that always displays the current date and time. < 1542405506 220787 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only swimming pool that had a proper clock display was in Dagály, but they ruined the whole Dagály a few years ago, so I can no longer go to that pool. < 1542405548 203475 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The date too? Nice! < 1542406453 315242 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542406535 466853 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542407934 443731 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542407970 547700 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... now not only qwantz, but Questionable Content is running a deal where you get to "See Tomorrow's Comic Today" if you're a supporter? < 1542408019 225745 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542408414 924956 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542408670 885158 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1542408744 84297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoEverything();14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58414 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1311) 10Created page with "'''doEverything();''' is an esolang by [[User:Cortex]] that can do anything and everything, including everything. Its syntax is very similar to JavaScript. ==Commands== {| cla..." < 1542408766 200826 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542410814 693777 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542412331 416357 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542414090 403062 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542414131 703414 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://medium.com/vantage/type-in-your-hand-512a5a6cbb98 Wow. Awesome printing museums, and you can watch the pictures and descriptions on the web without having to breathe in any of the lead fumes. < 1542414337 795548 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542414876 741887 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542415640 874918 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : one-shot (affine) continuation < 1542416533 803912 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1542418819 436564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoEverything();14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58415&oldid=58414 5* 03Cortex 5* (-163) 10 > 1542418899 584895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58416&oldid=58205 5* 03Cortex 5* (+73) 10 < 1542419224 971929 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542419502 534664 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ask shachaf regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet? < 1542419507 160733 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Io < 1542419507 294057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raphael L. Levien's language with continuations as fundamental structure, described in his paper "Io: a new programming notation" (1989-09-10) at and < 1542419507 340700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chapter 2 of Raphael A. Finkel's book `APLD', implementations `Amalthea',`Ganymede' - (perhaps you were looking for `@wiki Introduction to IO' ?) < 1542419515 492922 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where APLD < 1542419515 569720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Advanced Programming Language Design" by Raphael Finkel in 1996 at < 1542419797 144013 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well seems that last link is broken now, try . see chapter 2, section 3 for continuations in Io. also section 4 (power loops) is interesting) < 1542419801 275648 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Amalthea < 1542419801 322277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation made by Martin Sandin of the (continuation-based) `Io' language at < 1542419810 127650 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542419811 737901 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Ganymede < 1542419811 802888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation by BMeph of the (continuation-based) `Io' language at < 1542419849 964378 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this place dead or < 1542419860 793686 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : i hadn't seen the site before, ty < 1542419871 176610 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cortex : i don't think so < 1542419895 67377 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542420141 907653 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf ^ < 1542420713 353395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: But do you have a link to the paper? < 1542420727 709928 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.213.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542420838 158553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: So what I want is something like callCC (\k -> ...) such that you can use the k freely as long as the stack frame still exists, but not once callCC returns. < 1542420864 843373 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542420864 932159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the same as one-shot continuations. < 1542420864 978782 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.213.198 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542420865 480483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.213.198 QUIT :Changing host < 1542420865 480531 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542421015 57414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I mean isn't just the stack frame but the actual continuation. < 1542421042 286789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I literally mean that the continuation, as in the rest of the program, can't be copied. < 1542421100 657458 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the web archive seems to have amalthea's implementation, good (i've sorta got used to such files missing even if the website itself is archived) < 1542421153 166476 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Cortex isn't a very patient ircist ) < 1542421599 616836 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : hm, i suppose you want DNE, then ? < 1542421795 354241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess DNE is linear and callCC is affine < 1542421814 873737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it matters that much, though. I guess the affine version is fine. > 1542421931 280101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echo Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58417&oldid=58373 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+148) 10/* Specification */ Note something fairly obvious < 1542422007 931403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: So now I think I want an explicit syntax, e.g. { x := foo`; ... } ---> foo(&{\x; ... }) < 1542422036 768428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular you might have something like { while`(p); ... }, to have the expression re-evaluated on every iteration. < 1542422452 364605 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( "The anatomy of a loop: a story of scope and control" by Olin Shivers in 2005-09 at , ) < 1542422463 208906 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( oerjan thinks a lot ) > 1542422464 269407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58418&oldid=46495 5* 03SplatterWorthy 5* (-139) 10felt the move command was "un-piet" < 1542422880 984865 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( cauliflower ) < 1542422969 765123 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roof light is blinking (on the blink?) < 1542422980 174176 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now it got worse < 1542423210 833340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1542423211 781892 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1542423219 573387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1542423221 108172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 170250Z VRB03KT 9999 BKN018 07/06 Q1036 RMK WIND 670FT 22005KT < 1542423230 538891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1542423230 706446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 170153Z 35005KT 1 3/4SM HZ BKN016 BKN020 12/04 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP146 FU BKN016 FU BKN020 T01220044 < 1542423258 948554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who knows how to read metar tell me which part of that says the whole area is enveloped in smoke < 1542423330 658584 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses FU < 1542423440 808343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so it is < 1542423508 77365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/detar//echo "https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar/data?format=decoded&ids=$1" < 1542423509 540093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/detar < 1542423511 850335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`detar KOAK < 1542423512 326379 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar/data?format=decoded&ids=KOAK < 1542423582 502244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately their decoder seems incomplete? < 1542423642 471798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/detar//echo "https://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/north-america.php?icao=$1" < 1542423643 946340 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/detar < 1542423653 552243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this website is sufficiently 90s < 1542423979 979188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`detar KOAK < 1542423980 468254 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/north-america.php?icao=KOAK < 1542424040 323368 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used Haskell in so long, and I now have a project where I think Haskell might be the best fit < 1542424398 331743 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542424545 755638 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542428500 492422 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542429960 210479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58419&oldid=58412 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+149) 10/* Cat */ Linear A script version > 1542430217 927098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58420&oldid=58419 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+93) 10ttf font link > 1542430582 12955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58421&oldid=58420 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Cat */ needs U+3000 IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE to maintain alignment < 1542431936 818364 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542431937 320620 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542433560 535688 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542433593 305401 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542441667 2507 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542441708 504665 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone seen this before https://puu.sh/C3b0P/9940d2d3aa.png ? I thought it was Malbolge first but it was not < 1542441857 66574 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem of finding the best query plan is equivalent to finding a minimum-cost path through the graph that visits each node exactly once." Is that like a traveling salesmen problem? < 1542442025 622004 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542442038 420751 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542443224 155105 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542443260 251011 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542443518 524830 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542443845 386623 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542443859 868330 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542445402 818156 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axzqpstgtksvumgo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542445440 791248 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542446796 213004 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: later gator. < 1542452789 286309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542454564 13206 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542458366 392030 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542460858 367261 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone seen this before https://puu.sh/C3b0P/9940d2d3aa.png ? I thought it was Malbolge first but it was not < 1542463868 271739 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542464080 747413 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542464081 11433 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.27 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542464081 406325 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.208.27 QUIT :Changing host < 1542464081 406374 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542464672 165545 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yllcxmpfzmrvhkdv JOIN :#esoteric < 1542472528 849226 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542474442 714519 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542475844 812933 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542475885 247507 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542476425 439132 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542476547 310842 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542482419 459433 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542483870 662892 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542483874 202290 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542486185 94490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58422&oldid=58407 5* 03Cortex 5* (+21) 10 > 1542486517 894675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58423&oldid=58422 5* 03Cortex 5* (+9) 10 > 1542486646 741038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LMBC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58424&oldid=58413 5* 03Cortex 5* (+105) 10 > 1542487283 760642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58425&oldid=58416 5* 03Cortex 5* (+3) 10 < 1542487304 398868 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 > 1542487396 9795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58426&oldid=58425 5* 03Cortex 5* (+92) 10 < 1542487439 269935 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542487439 793456 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1542487472 924193 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542487474 359384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58427&oldid=58405 5* 03Cortex 5* (+25) 10 > 1542487677 127803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58428&oldid=58177 5* 03Cortex 5* (+23) 10 > 1542487724 887124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58429&oldid=58428 5* 03Cortex 5* (+2) 10 < 1542489133 648044 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host < 1542489133 648092 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492010 863551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542492126 967746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58430&oldid=58421 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+463) 10/* Examples */ truth-machine, and double sided tablet example < 1542492372 980304 :wob_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492382 674156 :wob_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Client Quit < 1542492431 960019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492517 850013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1542492552 302799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1542492872 545032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw seven firefighting vehicles obviously already on the site of some big trouble today, in Budapest 6, at 2018-11-17 18:20+01:00. From the news article by the MTI (government news agency), there were ten firefighting vehicles, < 1542492891 179505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a big fire in the roof and top floor of an office building. < 1542492932 354459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What took me like 20 minutes to realize is why the news says that the fifth storey of a four-storey house was building. But it's really obvious in retrospect. < 1542493004 672110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to guess the solution? < 1542493097 530410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clue is that the news entry refers to two different sources for "fifth storey" and "five-storey office building", the first was said by a person using an office there, the second by the firefighters. < 1542493136 616094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you may need some local knowledge for this that differs in some European countries, and I'm not sure how it works in the UK. < 1542493196 337553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was in the city center of Budapest, so it's entirely impossible that the firefighters found out about this so slowly that the top storey of the building has entirely disappeared without trace by then. < 1542493232 924223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have most likely heared of the fire within 30 seconds from when someone has seen the smoke and recognized it as coming from a fire. < 1542493246 915033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they probably got there in less than five minutes. < 1542493299 846539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the topic still says cornucopia. nobody changed that. strange. < 1542493440 771437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, https://youtu.be/qA67T7FPBME video of ceremonial vote on CIPM conference by representatives of delegates of member states accepting new definitions of SI kilogram, ampere, mole and kelvin < 1542493514 931751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a formal celebration that the definitions had de facto been accepted by that time < 1542493518 660605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most obvious reason to me for a "fifth storey"/"four-storey" discrepancy would be related to different numbering systems for storeys < 1542493525 460213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the typical off-by-one goes in the other direction < 1542493558 896908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard numbering system in the UK is "ground floor" for the floor with the entrance, "first floor" for the floor above < 1542493566 16549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that one is actually consistently wrong in Hungary, "four-storey" always means that the top storey is the "fourth storey" < 1542493579 223204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a difference in numbering, just not that < 1542493596 221613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what you're saying basically < 1542493613 560149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although given how hilly places like Birmingham are, frequently there are multiple ground floors, so you can have, e.g. "lower ground, upper ground, first floor"… < 1542493640 616757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :places with more than two ground floors tend to use an entirely artificial numbering system; those aren't standardised and often make no sense < 1542493652 590703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some buildings in here also are 1 for the floor above the ground floor < 1542493658 85076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some aren't. < 1542493687 81869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ordinary buildings with the entrance to a floor right above the ground, that floor is called groundfloor and numbered 0 consistently < 1542493695 620934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :places in the UK which get a lot of foreign visitors often number the ground floor as 0, which makes things clearer for the foreigners whilst not contradicting the standard UK numbering scheme < 1542493748 932307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, given the standard correspondence 0=first, 1=second, 2=third, if "four-storey house" means that the top storey is numbered 4, it would be the fifth storey, and that would fix the discrepancy < 1542493769 325583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many buildings have the entrance on a storey that's either half a storey below ground level, and in that case, that floor is sometimes numbered 0 and sometimes -1, and sometimes people don't even know how it's numbered or use it inconsistently < 1542493777 594187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the biggest mistakes in English is to derive words like "fourth" from "four" rather than from "three" < 1542493799 902813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, actually English has lots of much bigger mistakes because it's English, but that one really annoys me < 1542493818 172871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should just call the ground floor zero, since the level above the ground is zero, since it is at the ground. < 1542493826 254327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lived in such a building, with the entrance a meter below the ground. the storey with the entrance had the office of a small company and some common rooms, the three floors above had apartments < 1542493840 112202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here floors below the ground floor are normally just called "basement", although you see negative numbers sometimes, especially if there's more than one of httem < 1542493842 933465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1542493862 411960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the storey with the entrance in that building was variously numbered 0 and -1, even in some official papers < 1542493900 800852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in buildings with an elevator, there is usually a consistent numbering because the elevator buttons are numbered, but the firefighters need not know about that numbering when they go for a fire < 1542493961 794445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bigger buildings on sloped terrain, it happens that the same floor with an entrance is right above the ground on one face of the building, but below ground from the other face of the building. sometimes there's even entrances to two different levels on the different sides. < 1542493966 584013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK the vast majority of buildings, other than dwellings/houses, that have multiple floors will have a lift (en_US:elevator) < 1542493982 473877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the numbering from that will work < 1542493998 763518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good example for such a building is the building K of BME (university), a rather large building < 1542494000 642207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is basically because public buildings require disabled access to every floor < 1542494014 962501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lift is normally the only practical way to do that < 1542494028 365357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one has five entrances, one on the front face from the Danube's side that is one storey higher than the other four entries on the other three sides of the building < 1542494062 294662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the storeys of the building have actually been renumbered a few years ago, with an offset of 1 < 1542494062 387470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be enough to indicate two ground floors, I think, in the UK < 1542494124 551273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the building where I work the floors are numbered LG, UG, 1, 2, even though there's only one public entrance (on the upper ground floor); the lower ground floor has some fire exits at ground level (it's on a slope) < 1542494145 2166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a loading entrance, I think (i.e. for moving goods from lorries into the building) < 1542494168 603369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use 0 for the entrance I think is good < 1542494194 603511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ais523: yes, that's correct about the storeys. the problem with 1-based ordinals themselves isn't specific to English, nor does it originate there. ancient Latin has had 1-based ordinals, which is why they say that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, the third day after his death on Friday. < 1542494221 415430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Jesus resurrection thing actually confused me a great deal when I was young < 1542494297 226399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for naming the floors, if the floor half below the ground is numbered -1, then floor 0 is generally called either "magasföldszint" (elevated ground floor) or "félemelet" (half[th] storey). < 1542494409 655874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have the word "mezzanine", which is basically a floor constructed inside the vertical extent of another floor (e.g. you have a large ground floor on one side of the building, but on the other side it's split into two) < 1542494424 274513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's common to have no floor that matches ground level < 1542494466 683623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in some areas the ground floor is about 50cm above-ground so that the basement can extend slightly above ground, giving access to natural light and a fire escape, but it's still considered the basement) < 1542494467 336955 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's especially confusing, because the day after easter sunday is a government holiday in Hungary, and it is called easter monday, and I also knew that Easter was (at least according to christianty) the feast of the resurrection of Jesus, so it was natural to assume that Jesus was resurrected on Monday then, < 1542494549 615602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only then it wasn't clear why Sundays in general were considered sort of the equivalent of the Sabbath by christianty, with the biggest christian churches claiming that one of the tenth commandments is to be understood to refer to Sundays now (though some christian churches disagree, and claim it refers to Saturday or Friday) < 1542494580 125965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that happens too < 1542494634 865758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact the floor with the entrance being slightly above ground is probably more likely for an office building in that dense inner city area than a floor a little below ground < 1542494679 682765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly because then the storey below the entrance level gets some light through windows partly lowered below the sidewalk < 1542494695 618585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/partly lowered below/lowered partly below/ < 1542494718 680527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think some hotels also have raised ground floors because it lets them install an impressive-looking staircase going up to them < 1542494730 761137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'll typically have a ground-level side entrance for disabled access < 1542494772 341727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone else have this problem about Easter when they were young? or did you just get some organized education about christian culture and so could avert that? < 1542494807 277477 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: kernel update < 1542494847 890493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, being an algebrist type of mathematician, one who cares about notation, I totally agree that ordinals should have started with 0, like "first, second, twoth, threeth, fourth ...", and generally use 0-based indexes without using the ordinals in the grammar sense, < 1542494899 357554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I absolutely freaking hate how lua, a language that was decently designed and decently implemented, has a built-in # operator and a built-in optimized representation for dictionaries behaving as arrays, both of which only work well if you're using 1-based indexes for the arrays, < 1542494909 666031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also absolutely hate how GAP uses 1-based indexes < 1542495093 174950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this GAP http://www.gap-system.org/ , for the record < 1542495458 452060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you might want a array index starting with something other than zero, but usually zero is better. < 1542495498 395552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, the most common is wanting one starting with -1, but one starting with 1 or even 2 happens too < 1542495878 325999 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542495988 868168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542496073 70619 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1542497400 905653 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542497435 471725 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542498191 509531 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542498214 902734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have starting writing the implementation of Netsubscribe. Currently it reads configuration from /etc/netsubscribe.conf and I have implemented subcommands "analyze", "checkpoint", and "vacuum", and configuration options for various limits and some permissions. Eventually I can also add the subcommands to use the protocol (mainly to use with xinetd), to post a note, list messages, set tags, etc. < 1542498322 371882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also have a few questions, such as how should I do deferred operations that can be scheduled to do later and if it can't be done, to try again later until it is successful or gives up? < 1542499703 467795 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542499738 392968 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542502188 612614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: normally you should try deferred operations a few times with a long waiting period between them (e.g. try an hour, then a day, then a week), and notify someone (ideally the person who requested the operation) if it fails every time (then stop trying0 < 1542502196 635884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what email relays do, and this seems like a similar situation < 1542502309 349146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it is a similar situation I think < 1542502646 397770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A local user posted the message, although the subscriber will be a remote user and if that operation fails then likely the subscriber cannot be notified. < 1542502767 94824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would likely to need to eventually be done is to eventually remove the subscriber from the local subscription list. < 1542502785 394891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that one confused me back in the late 1990s when the internet was very new. I sent an email to a mailing list, and later got an automated response that it couldn't be delivered. The mail was delivered to the mailing list and most people on it, only it couldn't be delivered to one person joined to the list, and some intermediate server somewhere mailed me about that. < 1542502904 190469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mailing list is misconfigured, it should have asked for that sort of staus message to be sent to the list server < 1542502913 149985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that it can bounce the person in question off the list) < 1542502920 126199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it was probably misconfigured. but that happens. < 1542502950 583419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the notification probably told me who it couldn't deliver the mail to. < 1542503039 842997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hi. This is the qmail-send program at «domain». I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. < 1542503065 223923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't write error messages like that nowadays :-D < 1542503398 975639 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542503663 64629 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international corn cob for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1542503705 336675 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hth < 1542503745 901121 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm no space < 1542503754 632049 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international corncob for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1542504128 280539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542506008 666063 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm shtetl-optimized's certificate has expired < 1542507093 753152 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.59.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542507288 582368 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542507288 996256 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.59.199 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542507289 485349 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.59.199 QUIT :Changing host < 1542507289 531922 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542508658 726488 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542508666 348328 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1542509486 258189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Netsubscribe even if it fails, the message is still public so someone can still read it later even if their side is down. < 1542514137 787040 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: sprocklem < 1542514195 849738 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542515219 235599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542515291 311547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542519759 268661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542519833 519044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542521034 339510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542521107 399275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542521124 413585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542522245 991476 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yllcxmpfzmrvhkdv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542527607 428587 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542529320 737237 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542529614 37548 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542532005 76763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question though was about what method should be used to set up the future attempts. Consider that the system may shut down or power failure or whatever before then, too, and that the program is setuid and setgid (although not to root). < 1542532370 397243 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542532385 256037 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542535266 775133 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542535642 817921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1542536982 396898 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542536982 511048 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542537892 829759 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542537907 522695 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542538792 179678 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542541248 208370 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1542542214 220076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Micnap929b 5* 10New user account > 1542542572 431060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58431&oldid=58408 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+202) 10/* Introductions */ > 1542542837 256458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Micnap929b14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58432 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+6) 10Created page with "Hello!" < 1542543902 895638 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542547137 310251 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, someone played Submachine game series? (by Mateusz Skutnik). I played several, nice work < 1542550347 260429 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542550572 904858 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542550573 25589 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.177.22 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542550573 629163 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.22 QUIT :Changing host < 1542550573 629202 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542550701 385917 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asxlnuxbmxlezysg JOIN :#esoteric < 1542550827 428186 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542563224 724939 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1542563224 812447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1542563224 812510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1542564860 281147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58433 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+7999) 10Created page with "''~by [[User:Micnap929b|micnap929b]]''
== About == '''TAPEX''' is an esoteric programming language heavily inspired by [[Brainfuck|brainfuck]] (knowledge about it is advi..." > 1542564987 66304 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58434&oldid=58433 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+1) 10 > 1542565247 82699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58435&oldid=58406 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+12) 10Added TAPEX < 1542566233 953623 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asxlnuxbmxlezysg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1542566861 829464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58436&oldid=58430 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+11) 10/* Rules for allocating storage cells */ < 1542566964 619258 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542568179 820982 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwffsgfwwalsxtfp JOIN :#esoteric < 1542569025 986082 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.218.48 NICK :MDude < 1542570835 750136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream of a paradoxical statement, but when I woke up and reconstructed it, it of course wasn't paradoxical at all. < 1542570848 177897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to write it down though. < 1542571040 600612 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinators are the stuff of life. < 1542571105 424132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1542571109 415394 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1542571112 302473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're one way of life < 1542571114 808312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the only way < 1542571139 620259 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the way of life, man. every arbitrary transformation set reduces to a set of combinators lmao. < 1542571146 693502 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the source of that joke. "stuff of life". < 1542571151 948790 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e water < 1542571179 559174 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other building blocks and shit. < 1542572600 709980 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542572641 741101 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542574429 438362 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542579979 422484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58437&oldid=58332 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+304) 10more elegant Godel numbering thanks to Rdebath! > 1542581431 859959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58438&oldid=58437 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-187) 10 > 1542582365 917681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58439&oldid=58438 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+571) 10/* Interpreters and Converters */ bash, accepts bf8 in any standard base < 1542582615 737788 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542583305 358362 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb > 1542583336 964605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58440&oldid=58439 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+11) 10/* Left-padding */ < 1542583479 863712 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542583590 993675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I mentioned more specific of my question about setting future attempts for the Netsubscribe. Now do you know how to answer? < 1542584136 95840 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542585620 689674 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542585712 796897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542590238 717321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542591005 970056 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542593362 775735 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwffsgfwwalsxtfp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542593778 761710 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542593805 430242 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542593805 616344 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.14 QUIT :Changing host < 1542593805 616384 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542601262 15372 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today on mezzacotta: tips for creating a spring golem < 1542601277 381338 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=2018-11-18 < 1542605578 737418 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542605627 380823 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542606585 868887 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542606693 88898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the first page of the Free Hero Mesh wiki includes the links for the documentation of invoking, configuration, file formats, and license. Perhaps, you can look see if these documents look like to you to be OK so far. > 1542608058 152500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58441&oldid=56992 5* 03Cortex 5* (+243) 10 > 1542608634 570175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58442&oldid=58427 5* 03Cortex 5* (+117) 10 > 1542608908 812033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58443&oldid=58442 5* 03Cortex 5* (-1) 10 < 1542609021 452981 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542609054 741879 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542614023 752779 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542614059 310636 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542615365 871599 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542615380 300175 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542616188 540009 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542617253 448415 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhilcyydpuxjnsde JOIN :#esoteric > 1542618631 955843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grime MC14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58444 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+4441) 10mad ting < 1542619159 956927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1542619759 885612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you think goto is important if you have named-break? < 1542620714 776817 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542621026 494807 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1542626560 128185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58445&oldid=58281 5* 03Backspace 5* (+30) 10 > 1542626601 939031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58446&oldid=58445 5* 03Backspace 5* (-30) 10 > 1542627798 265544 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grime MC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58447&oldid=58444 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+20) 10/* Collatz (Eski-beat) Sequences */ < 1542631920 312553 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542632156 823535 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542633155 745577 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542633162 762885 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! these tools suck and I have to work around them! < 1542634157 294645 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542635731 801213 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1542635893 238311 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542636810 576335 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.221.183 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542636873 464541 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542636978 584483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542636983 939942 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.221.183 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542636991 260321 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.221.183 QUIT :Changing host < 1542636991 260373 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542637578 338506 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542637858 296718 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1542639520 112331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58448&oldid=58434 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+322) 10 > 1542639738 601248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58449&oldid=58448 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+3686) 10Added a JS interpreter > 1542639939 808498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58450&oldid=58449 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (-12008) 10Blanked the page > 1542640007 569771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58451&oldid=58435 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (-12) 10/* Deleted TAPEX */ > 1542640159 563235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPEX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58452&oldid=58450 5* 03Micnap929b 5* (+24) 10 < 1542643887 305113 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542645274 993781 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542646658 674649 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1542649888 659301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Omgrofl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58453&oldid=37167 5* 03Cortex 5* (+126) 10 < 1542651377 188981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I think goto is still important even if you have named break < 1542651772 364208 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I don't really like named break) < 1542651831 284598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-92.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542651837 531288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why not? < 1542652016 308622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might as well to just have a goto command, and you might want to specify targets that isn't just break from a loop anyways < 1542652268 781543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean break from loop, I mean break from arbitrary block. < 1542652460 571431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is clearer to use goto < 1542652483 218110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To specify exactly what label where it is < 1542652489 855517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542654606 725009 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542655807 435050 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542660060 861790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542660967 992242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542662892 873206 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1542664038 553235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-92.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1542664133 964105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`metar koak < 1542664135 323977 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @metar KOAK < 1542664144 514687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1542664155 892115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1542664156 177711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 192053Z 27004KT 2SM HZ FU FEW015 BKN055 BKN180 16/04 A3003 RMK AO2 TWR VIS 3 SLP168 FU FEW015 T01560044 58016 < 1542664919 965880 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542665910 297847 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... > 1542666715 613057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ODDBALL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58454&oldid=46661 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+13) 10/* External resources */ add link to archived resource < 1542667002 425351 :fungot`!~fungot@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542667151 386317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Iag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58455&oldid=53691 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-34) 10/* External resources */ Iag tutorial link is correctly archived AFAICT < 1542667187 193338 :fungot!~fungot@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542667187 713214 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542667188 85639 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542667188 85705 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542667188 411217 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542667273 410848 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542667377 883820 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542667383 205877 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542667383 300563 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1542667383 347391 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric > 1542667537 595852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58456&oldid=53163 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+14) 10/* External resources */ another link found on wayback > 1542667953 939349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quantum INTERCAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58457&oldid=46792 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+12) 10/* External resources */ wayback link > 1542667984 502243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quantum INTERCAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58458&oldid=58457 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ > 1542668563 803893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aheui14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58459&oldid=58456 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-1) 10/* External resources */ > 1542669818 956607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58460&oldid=58262 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+17) 10/* HTML / Javascript */ functioning archived js interpreter > 1542670095 728745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sansism Turing-completeness proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58461&oldid=30484 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+12) 10/* External resources */ archived resource < 1542670205 859574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542670938 828787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1542671288 942099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sansism14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58462&oldid=26088 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+107) 10/* External resources */ latest available archived versions < 1542671302 738698 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542671330 843870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sansism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58463&oldid=58462 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1) 10/* External resources */ < 1542671475 966590 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542674454 738833 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542677319 864617 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542677746 727263 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542677936 393847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is currently what I have for schema in my Netsubscribe implementation: < 1542677957 81272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : create table object(id text primary key, owner text, text blob, timestamp int) without rowid; create table target(object text not null, target text not null, direct int not null, timestamp int not null, subscribed int not null, primary key (object, target)) without rowid; create index reverse on target(target, timestamp, object, direct); < 1542678069 367211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, now I added NOT NULL constraints to the "owner" and "timestamp" fields of the "object" table. < 1542678076 155981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this look like good enough to you now? < 1542678163 227870 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542678744 968566 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542680208 579922 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542680437 774957 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.222.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542680437 939685 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.222.193 QUIT :Changing host < 1542680437 939732 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542681139 869709 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542682008 453822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I safely perform a DNS lookup with a timeout? > 1542682525 255538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grime MC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58464&oldid=58447 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-3) 10/* Hello World */ typo? < 1542684269 51577 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1542684269 473480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 200250Z 13005KT 9999 SCT007 BKN021 M02/M03 Q1037 RMK WIND 670FT 15005KT < 1542686764 364742 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode 🐭 < 1542686767 599770 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F42D MOUSE FACE] < 1542687017 145092 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1542687062 307958 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542687152 201811 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542687949 224334 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542688298 899510 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542690295 663016 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1542690403 846466 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542690449 204782 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:ad3b:c5be:4f16:3200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542690588 807534 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Client Quit < 1542690658 626150 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542690722 931752 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Magic: the Gathering Official Encyclopedia includes a "deckbuilder's index", and I had a idea to make a similar "composer's index", with many of the same things but also some new stuff, including cards having specific drawbacks, unusual effects, specific numbers, costs, etc, for pseudo-Vintage. > 1542692353 626698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfork14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58465&oldid=52412 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+176) 10/* External resources */ < 1542705035 678002 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542707688 476975 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542709401 715400 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542714812 7142 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghpinmtmcwpbounj JOIN :#esoteric < 1542715750 633316 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542716149 385872 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I would love to have right now is a language for expressing O(N) operations on JSON files < 1542716174 205349 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be swell, oren < 1542716306 291183 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if well implemented such a thing would be much faster then the hodgpodge of python I'm using right now < 1542716420 987041 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or some sort of streaming program that converts an JSON array of JSON objects into a csv file and back < 1542716649 241688 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is how do you make a language that can express sufficiently general operations on general datastructures but still guarantee the operations have a certain complexity < 1542717275 74546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :jq is a little bit like that. I mean, probably not with any complexity guarantees, but often a good replacement for JSON manipulations. < 1542718491 783991 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Un développeur du logiciel VLC et un hacker français nommés chevaliers de l'Ordre du Mérite" < 1542719999 417576 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542723452 767424 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542723557 733504 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.209.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542723557 904390 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.209.160 QUIT :Changing host < 1542723557 904432 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542726188 824797 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542727764 530524 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542729192 574609 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghpinmtmcwpbounj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542729390 65972 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542729567 278844 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://radio.garden/live/kapuskasing/ckgn-fm-89-7/ <- what is on the radio in the middle of the northern wastes. you'd think is would be country, but no < 1542730533 576453 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kptsxkectrqaztdi JOIN :#esoteric < 1542735837 446739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542737310 721926 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542738126 575948 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542740592 557000 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kptsxkectrqaztdi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1542744573 229750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lykrast 5* 10New user account > 1542744664 346633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58466&oldid=58431 5* 03Lykrast 5* (+205) 10/* Introductions */ > 1542746360 570631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Muriel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58467&oldid=53694 5* 03Lykrast 5* (+2821) 10Added spec as found in the links < 1542747441 340869 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542747458 809940 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542753660 369085 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542755665 513747 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542757120 285649 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542757442 486122 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1542757791 535129 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1542761262 769070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58468&oldid=57887 5* 03Pelirodri 5* (+1) 10 < 1542761807 905233 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542762518 544635 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1542764479 973234 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542766321 431455 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542766356 865063 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542766666 801483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542766717 702740 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.210.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542766717 931458 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.210.51 QUIT :Changing host < 1542766717 931506 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542769278 549487 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542769303 410916 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542769326 424867 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542769445 783149 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1542769852 265822 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542769989 727963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542771581 843145 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542771778 343443 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xdfqooqjkqdmbmow QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542772053 7368 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vxtnkkvistrxraeu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542772623 901392 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542772632 765411 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542773237 336837 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhilcyydpuxjnsde QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542777623 686016 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542777766 253317 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542778191 576455 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542778211 766573 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542784685 539268 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1542784779 846948 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1542788589 466521 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:7868:e1c5:329c:edc8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542789024 876554 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542789779 275932 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542789882 49474 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542790051 232277 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542790088 794372 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542791595 999052 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542791625 951702 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542791900 780695 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542792093 888201 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542796223 226010 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542798434 946108 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zcdwmswugnrtxkwy JOIN :#esoteric < 1542805537 820565 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542809755 308175 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542809882 784832 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542809981 758925 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.128.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542809982 43392 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.128.63 QUIT :Changing host < 1542809982 43441 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542817162 298148 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542818456 702356 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542819359 678679 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542819988 19332 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542819988 19393 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1542819988 128757 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542820116 761203 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1542821250 313664 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542821978 519599 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542822036 729592 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542822109 698697 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542822134 720317 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1542822165 869459 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator NICK :Bowserinator < 1542822407 442667 :probablymoony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1542824171 851219 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542824802 746401 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542825248 666592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1542825248 756010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1542825248 756049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1542830442 287524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pada14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58469&oldid=44709 5* 03Lykrast 5* (+129) 10Added interpreter by the guy that made the hello world (found in code golf) and a precision based on that interpreter > 1542831307 444791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pada14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58470&oldid=58469 5* 03Lykrast 5* (+71) 10/* Hello, World! */ Alternate answer from the code golf thread < 1542833814 199159 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542837766 350565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542838645 683906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the way debian sets up programmable completion in bash. It hurts more than it helps. But I just realized that I can kill it with a sweet blow of its own weapon: just type shopt -u prog < 1542838660 919909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha! vengeance < 1542838696 71209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, at least once I had to insert a fucking comment sign (hash mark) in the command line temporarily just so that bash's buildin readline would expand some filename for me < 1542838866 832983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think you are correct < 1542838921 15111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually shop-u prog also works, but the first tab in that doesn't require programmable completion < 1542838969 975648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good thing they didn't make programmable completion so smart that it won't expand "progcomp" because surely that's not the one you want to turn off, just like how it sometimes doesn't expand filenames < 1542839350 84291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! cold is probably coming next week < 1542839360 804886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ next/ the next/ < 1542842076 32874 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1542843265 242837 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542844484 41083 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542845298 664693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542846087 499615 :spiegelau!~spiegelau@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542847728 275189 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542847990 492813 :spiegelau!~spiegelau@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1542851078 366977 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542851229 685872 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542852423 354652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Netsubscribe? < 1542853204 828283 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542853220 915367 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.197.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542853221 29055 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@79.125.197.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1542853221 29097 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542853463 548091 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1542856601 823385 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zcdwmswugnrtxkwy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542857096 324441 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vxtnkkvistrxraeu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542857114 970722 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-oopqjqeficzfeqch JOIN :#esoteric < 1542857271 753118 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542857367 879994 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542858126 276685 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1542860824 997380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58471&oldid=58330 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+26) 10 > 1542860865 442725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58472&oldid=58471 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-231) 10 > 1542860890 974749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58473&oldid=58472 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-26) 10 > 1542860950 980455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58474&oldid=58473 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (+4) 10 > 1542861001 533793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snigl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58475&oldid=58474 5* 03Sifoobar 5* (-10) 10 < 1542861714 262930 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542862324 870619 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542862598 523717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542863883 791367 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542864290 182926 :probablymoony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moony < 1542868323 581646 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:ad3b:c5be:4f16:3200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542868526 225505 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:ad3b:c5be:4f16:3200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1542870529 386598 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqwgqtdjmycytznb JOIN :#esoteric < 1542871117 838982 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542871712 665945 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542874135 222934 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542876973 671229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-39.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1542879733 553133 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542884258 962972 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542884571 317753 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1542886722 530366 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542887951 247178 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1542889186 44856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Simplefunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58476&oldid=49812 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+0) 10categories, fix typo < 1542891453 285138 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542896373 251873 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542896439 935586 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542896440 65105 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.56 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542896440 294757 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.124.56 QUIT :Changing host < 1542896440 341543 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542900047 399380 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542900702 716068 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542902849 581991 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542902927 825447 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542906108 402572 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542908753 420660 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542917956 297591 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542918559 515329 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmnm, what if you represented an object as a linked list of key-value pairs? < 1542918577 173906 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object could have a prototype, then, by appending the prototype to the end of the object < 1542918848 744055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542918911 777523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that's the lisp way, but I don't see why the representation, such as a singly-linked list vs an abstract dictionary with a prototype pointer matters. < 1542919041 239509 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, it's _a_ lisp way < 1542919106 832395 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't quite mean a "representation" but a language in which everything is, explicitly, a pair < 1542919127 253787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yeah, but why is that good? < 1542919143 79265 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects would have a key-value pair as their head, and the "tail" of the object contains the rest of the key-value pairs < 1542919148 545384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than perhaps because it's easier to implement if you're only the guy writing the core language, but not the library < 1542919215 188511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yeah, and then you won't know how you should update a member of an object in place: add it to the head or update it in place in the list body where it may be owned by the prototype < 1542919276 307535 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you want to add a member to an object and the object has at least one member as its head, then you can insert the new member in the tail of the object, which ensures that it is not accidentally part of the prototype < 1542919294 655948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: in the _tail_? not in the head? < 1542919311 686712 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (("x", 3), proto), and if you want to add "y" = 4, you'd have (("x", 3), (("y", 4), proto)) < 1542919326 508232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: you can insert a new pair to the head, but then you'll grow the object endlessly because you keep inserting the same key many times instead of updating it in place < 1542919449 163539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless of course you want a language like haskell or standard ML or prolog, where you can never update ordinary members in place, only specially designated mutable slots or members of specially designated mutable vectors < 1542919516 723494 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(("x", 3), (("y", 4), ("proto", proto))) but then that's barely weird in any way, just a possibly inefficient way to store objects < 1542920046 145207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other thing to do is like characteristics with continuous effects in Magic: the Gathering. < 1542920814 201967 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1542920872 517436 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1542921548 856095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, now you're scaring me. for linked lists, at least I understand the rules. < 1542922346 19708 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1542922380 233441 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1542922433 202500 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Excess Flood < 1542922455 718116 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric > 1542924510 515153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58477 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2488) 10Gdel number self-interpreter < 1542925303 485739 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1542925329 660998 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1542926003 838947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542926311 422428 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542926437 690462 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542927404 174293 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1542927422 453390 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric > 1542927550 105364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58478&oldid=58477 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+53) 10Add known example < 1542927616 730299 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542927816 466310 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542928527 323560 :Storkman!~Storkman@185.24.219.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542928618 552711 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542929260 713080 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1542929967 855974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542930612 912497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542931745 233705 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-oopqjqeficzfeqch QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542932052 834205 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-fkziuovqvmzavzbl JOIN :#esoteric < 1542934505 673432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542935424 186711 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542936435 760255 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqwgqtdjmycytznb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542939582 914340 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.121.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542939676 253819 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542939676 368971 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.121.15 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542939676 504832 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.15 QUIT :Changing host < 1542939676 551532 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542941733 986524 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542942020 449346 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542942137 486362 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542942303 933610 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: apparently M-/ does completion only as filename < 1542943216 923897 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542943504 506654 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542944694 22879 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psjyfqnzgvsosefc JOIN :#esoteric < 1542944827 176058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that works (on my computer at least) < 1542953072 865989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well great. I still don't really get the point of programmable completion in bash. it sounds useful in abstract in readline, but that doesn't mean I want to use it in bash for anything. < 1542953124 615308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not after the horrible decision by gnu getopt_long to accept any unambiguous prefix of a long option < 1542953160 711286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they even did that, that just means that scripts using long options will randomly break in the future when new long options are added, which makes the whole point of long options as opposed to short options kind of useless < 1542953201 208341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, manually adding synonyms to long options, that I understand, but accepting any random prefix without a warning? < 1542953251 460651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should explicitly add synonyms like --no-perm and --no-same-perm and --no-permission and --no-permissions and --no-same-permission to the option --no-same-permissions in tar, and things like that < 1542953267 411403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542953321 950356 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody have any resources for evaluating the S and K combinator basis using queues? < 1542953341 148848 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my question is really "how can I evaluate unlambda using only a queue holding the initial input string." < 1542953390 757909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: look at how underload works. it uses two stacks. wait, queues? < 1542953396 414798 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542953406 609607 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a queue. < 1542953406 656386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, even for queues, you just use a suitable rewriting system. < 1542953423 198492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just be slow < 1542953426 555122 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/WVs8 < 1542953437 334842 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the problem statement I'm working with. < 1542953443 32142 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wrote it.) < 1542953480 624827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, hasn't someone already asked something about queues and how you can use them? < 1542953483 689034 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to formulate combinator application as a series of operations on multiple queues. < 1542953507 422098 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use parens, so I admit an application operator/combinator. < 1542953565 125887 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already doing friggin' term rewriting using a queue, I can't imagine CL could be that far off. < 1542953727 232755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes all of the letters for short options are used, that might be why they need the long options. Other than that I think short options are usually good enough < 1542953766 665803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you cheat by using integers, either in the queue, or in some registers? < 1542953809 195224 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. the queue must consist entirely of a sequence of those combinators I've defined: `, S and K. < 1542953815 453073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well sure, grep and tar have a lot of options, including for compatibility merging multiple different grep variants which is why grep -r and grep -R means the same < 1542953837 280418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi, b_jonas: https://git.imode.tech/?p=python/modal;a=blob;f=modal.py;h=fc26ebe7ae44f3220f5ad9b1267421ae38d61e2d;hb=refs/heads/master < 1542953849 122320 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet imode.tech 1337 < 1542953868 992559 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(factorial (5)) + (factorial (6)) < 1542953914 518007 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already doing term rewriting using queues and some additional data structures. what I want to show is a reduction from general term rewriting to a set of rewriting combinators. < 1542953924 541765 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then from there, to a queue automata. < 1542954043 891643 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top layer (the interpreter you see there) is called Modal. the middle layer is Mode. < 1542954285 783186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax for numbers is a bit confusing. The response and rules says "num 1" but that is what you have if you write "1". < 1542954330 585034 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, because all numbers get prefixed with their type. < 1542954344 312765 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all arithmetic rules then take something like `add (num ?left) (num ?right)` < 1542954354 201166 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :to extract the numeric value of a number. < 1542954368 280082 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why you need to do `add (10) (20)`, or `(10) + (20)`. < 1542954406 818726 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't parenthesize your numbers, it'd look like `add num 10 num 20`. which isn't good. < 1542954413 337045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write "num 1" then you get "num num 1". < 1542954427 834885 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. because `1` was transformed into `num 1`. < 1542954438 364033 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you say is sense, I am only saying the syntax is a bit confusing due to that < 1542954448 203788 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. :) < 1542954455 336072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have to go < 1542954456 801710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-228.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1542954644 902705 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what exactly is the tilde doing? Sometimes it adds spaces sometimes seems to do nothing, if it is a prefix to something < 1542954692 495312 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow. that's a bug. < 1542954781 244495 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, reconnect. that should not happen now. < 1542955287 935498 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542955595 292454 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK it work now < 1542956209 303334 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542956385 541629 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:ad3b:c5be:4f16:3200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542956421 422321 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542958035 895099 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psjyfqnzgvsosefc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542958551 975219 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :girl genius: ok, i did not expect _that_. < 1542958571 503583 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.4.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542958668 733710 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542958689 389585 :skizzy2!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542958839 513735 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1542958878 685698 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.4.190 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542958920 421753 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542959108 458203 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that bear's earrings seem a bit on and off < 1542959194 387192 :skizzy2!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542959724 480253 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542960585 656511 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542960610 609250 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542960687 514970 :skizzy!~skizzy@172.58.175.65 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542962602 585795 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542962616 56 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542963903 288145 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542965652 826507 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542966795 324644 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the discoloring effect on the eyes is kind of impressive :P < 1542966813 376496 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(andthe teeth as well) < 1542967094 932247 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there's a trope for it https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LatexPerfection < 1542967116 229697 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning: tvtropes will ruin your life hth) < 1542968941 776586 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542970484 501779 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542970796 611732 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1542971190 194185 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542971211 659474 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542972627 570899 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1542972645 258151 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1542973476 850977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan https://xkcd.com/609/ hth < 1542973476 940106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1542973496 812716 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542974506 422201 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542975019 287143 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1542975273 671101 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542976912 15651 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zofalixbtpupgccc JOIN :#esoteric < 1542977930 829967 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542979875 479477 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542979903 408591 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1542979930 991757 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542980433 821834 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542982932 949855 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542983007 716458 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.124.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542983007 862289 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.124.53 QUIT :Changing host < 1542983007 862346 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542984060 733419 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542984414 718831 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542985947 967134 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542987013 27768 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1542992411 986261 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542992727 236647 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542992727 744211 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542993513 138215 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1542994510 733346 :newbie!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542994713 986953 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542996365 658452 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542996614 684329 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542996738 399013 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1542997274 991358 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol Briton longbow spam is apparently, in 2017, still as impossible to counter as it was when I was like 12 < 1542997278 391299 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/7541iv/noob_question_countering_late_game_mass_longbows/do395ge < 1542998759 866183 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542999030 913841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542999635 688669 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543001986 789851 :newbie!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543002051 473210 :newbie!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543002296 638715 :newbie!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1543003250 483714 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543005836 341428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-46.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543006324 30410 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Changing host < 1543006324 30476 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1543006508 95375 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Changing host < 1543006508 95422 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1543008118 818569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-46.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2699873/nothing-out-of-the-ordinary/ < 1543008119 449329 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ehlist: not found > 1543011966 603068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58479&oldid=58401 5* 03Ais523 5* (+709) 10implemented; example < 1543012368 883593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543013403 837652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543016771 59822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-46.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1543016838 683608 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1543021536 883276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543023635 521355 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543026050 258777 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.214.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543026184 835167 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543026184 952023 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.214.63 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1543026185 261929 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.214.63 QUIT :Changing host < 1543026185 261981 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543029094 238804 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zofalixbtpupgccc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543030623 751432 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543034481 122455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I finished to write my Netsubscribe implementation, would you use it too? I will also run the server once I do; even if you do not run your own server too, you can still read messages, just not post or subscribe. (You can also write your own implementation if you do not want to use mine; as long as it follows the protocol it will be OK.) < 1543034867 249480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, protocol requests , v l r # q ? . are implemented, and subcommands "analyze", "checkpoint", "hostname", "init", "vacuum", and "version" are implemented (these subcommands are used at the command-line and are not part of the protocol). < 1543034984 436386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subcommands not yet implemented are "list", "note", "reply", "reverse", "subscribe", "tag", "unsubscribe". Does this design looks like OK so far at least? The program is setuid and setgid (but not to root), and the file /etc/netsubscribe.conf is for the configuration by the system administrator; there is also ~/.netsubscrc which is used for user configuration. < 1543043428 312195 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1543043570 969250 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543044889 515 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1543048281 335312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote about "edifloat" format, which is 40-bits, which has a unsigned 34-bit integer part, a sign bit, and 5-bits for where the dot is; 0-29 positions from the right, or 31 means there isn't any. If it is 30 then the integer part is divided by zero. < 1543051442 511117 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543051786 802207 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1543053636 529738 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvewwslirelbzokt JOIN :#esoteric < 1543056935 838771 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543060232 249922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543060502 725778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1543060812 879576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072C14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58480 5* 03Ais523 5* (+10874) 10new language; I basically just wrote this one because I needed it to prove AORS Turing-complete, but it might potentially be useful in other contexts too? > 1543060834 845094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072C14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58481&oldid=58480 5* 03Ais523 5* (+17) 10/* See also */ year < 1543060867 130137 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1543060889 530253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0701-2C14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58482 5* 03Ais523 5* (+22) 10section redirect > 1543062133 514312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58483&oldid=58479 5* 03Ais523 5* (+14078) 10/* Computational class */ TCness proof > 1543062177 190856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58484&oldid=58483 5* 03Ais523 5* (-12) 10TC category > 1543062381 80720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58485&oldid=58484 5* 03Ais523 5* (-1) 10/* Example */ whitespace fix < 1543062505 813077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543062523 788284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have opinions on the relative sort order of hyphens and underscores? < 1543062540 146959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan gets mad at people when they mis-sort the language list < 1543062553 269065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need to add 01-2C before or after 01_ < 1543063298 488050 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543063342 273741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543063417 780560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1543064602 397067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58486&oldid=58451 5* 03Ais523 5* (+21) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ +[[01-2C]], [[2C]]; oerjan, do you have any opinions on the relative ordering of hyphens versus underscores? > 1543064629 261731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58487&oldid=58400 5* 03Ais523 5* (+8) 10+[[2C]] < 1543068500 617343 :zemhill_____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1543068611 498075 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543069277 327442 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.125.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543069398 842715 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543069414 256281 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543069414 733999 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.125.207 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1543069415 111785 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.207 QUIT :Changing host < 1543069415 111837 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543071297 745869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill_____: you seem to have developed an underscore addiction > 1543071396 855639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072C14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58488&oldid=58481 5* 03Ais523 5* (-7) 10/* 01-2C */ use correct tag to format the name of the language < 1543072517 115711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it's a hangman game < 1543072674 882736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe I should implement and write in more of my esolangs < 1543072693 585662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so satisfying seeing the interpreter output lines line «CCccCCccCCccCCccwwwgṗēṙṗṖeṘṙṗṖṗṖeṘṙṘṙṗṖṗṖṗṖṗṖeṘṙṘṙṘṙṘṙboootdsssx» < 1543074051 725110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543075839 930509 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :love it ais523 < 1543076074 861016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543076112 226340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, are those characters from the Jelly characterset? < 1543076131 940447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ē isn't in Jelly's character set < 1543076152 435610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't commands, just arbitrary tokens; using Unicode made it a bit more readable because I could use consistent rules for what accents meant what < 1543076299 687728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1543076450 872265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, a real Jelly program would be unlikely to ever be that repetitive) < 1543076454 364298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyphens are before underscores I think. I mean, that's how ascii works < 1543076537 866845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but alphabetisation isn't asciibetisation < 1543076554 133540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that space and hyphen were probably equal in terms of sort order < 1543076555 829117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, it's not a Jelly , you said it was output. but another esolang could use the same set of characters, so that you don't need to make so many different custom teyetype balls < 1543076563 183781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, underscore and hyphen < 1543076741 269476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall when printed phonebooks explained their custom alphabetization rules (mostly needed for business names) in the preface < 1543076771 286035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including how they sort people with identical names < 1543076869 345901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, you know, they have a column of people called Kiss József or something, and you want to quickly find the right one by address < 1543077444 859839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543080064 740195 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1543080847 335989 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543081185 346566 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543081185 565457 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.207 QUIT :Changing host < 1543081185 565506 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543081628 471727 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543081762 971411 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543083758 900381 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543084418 463790 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543084500 871964 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543085132 201357 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.219.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543085135 488897 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.219.54 QUIT :Changing host < 1543085135 488946 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543086903 158119 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode Ⅎ < 1543086906 876446 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2132 TURNED CAPITAL F] < 1543086924 816991 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode Ю < 1543086925 386727 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+042E CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YU] < 1543086941 221593 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode 开 < 1543086941 789371 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+5F00 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5F00] < 1543086972 305892 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-cloudy < 1543086972 369361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 1d 7h 31m 35s ago: https://xkcd.com/609/ hth < 1543086977 801796 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh > 1543087310 726347 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58489&oldid=58486 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10Ginorst eimt < 1543087369 813990 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i usually fall back to unicode order for non-alphanumeric stuff < 1543087418 660354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you sorted some other answers at the same time < 1543087431 585330 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many in such a short time < 1543087436 12836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode order seems weird when it comes to things like letter/space mixes < 1543087451 368977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and digit-hyphen-underscore mixes didn't seem substantially different < 1543087451 959985 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also sort 1337 as leet, sometimes < 1543087469 158250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like I wrote a language called ē or anything like thaht < 1543087507 340426 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in the non-alphabetic section, where i usually count punctuation more than in the others < 1543087534 675251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it starts with a digit < 1543087551 967126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how would you categorise a language with a name like æ or ø? < 1543087558 263824 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew i shouldn't have said alphanumeric < 1543087561 68510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. alphabetic, just not in the /English/ alphabet < 1543087586 698839 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shhh don't give people ideas < 1543087600 763868 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i know the system _will_ break some day) < 1543087622 42758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had ideas purely designed to troll your sorting tendencies, but so far have not had a good opportunity to use them < 1543087631 57005 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1543087643 462905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp proper < 1543087644 98956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have to be a rottytooth-style language, I think < 1543087645 6352 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdop:CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. \ fueue:Fueue will be explained more properly once we've made another pass through all the other tanebventions. \ group:Groups are just loops with the property of associativity. \ halfling:Halflings are genericized hobbits for intellectual property reasons. \ hammurabi:From Hammurabi's law: If anyone creates a webpage that unexpectedly starts playing sounds, he shall be put to death. http:// < 1543087647 929800 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will sing the doom song now < 1543087661 166097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp proper\ order < 1543087661 878350 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1543087663 486211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a limit to how much of that you want in your wiki < 1543087665 509333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp proper order < 1543087666 236487 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1543087670 417366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1543087690 793130 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cdop < 1543087691 791148 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. < 1543087693 416737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1543087697 801377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not rottytooth-style languages specifically, but things that are there specifically to make life difficult for wiki admins < 1543087705 995125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about the emphasis. < 1543087710 712776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the languages named after spam pages and {{Programming Language}} < 1543087853 821810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go get food, anyway < 1543087860 883459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I actually got some esolanging done over the last few days… < 1543087863 489273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: food < 1543087936 493738 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how spam page names make things difficult... > 1543087963 616411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072C14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58490&oldid=58488 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1) 10/* Semantics */ fix mismatched paren < 1543087965 217213 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming Language will be easier now i templatized it. > 1543087996 215214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072C14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58491&oldid=58490 5* 03Ais523 5* (-5) 10/* Limited alphabet */ rm stray word < 1543088037 360605 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if people try to mess that up, i can just revert them on wikipedia :P < 1543088075 148635 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're clever enough to make it look like an improvement < 1543088104 420260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an esolang whose name starts with a non-scii alphabetic character? https://esolangs.org/wiki/%D0%AE%E1%93%82%EA%B3%A7%E2%8E%94 < 1543088331 831856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ais523 says "I'm typically the most active of Esolang's admins" and I don't think that's true anymore < 1543088365 806937 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there are some in greek already < 1543088366 135625 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... maybe it's true, if you count the wiki itself, not irc < 1543088379 757473 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's what you linked < 1543088424 899794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no. https://esolangs.org/wiki/%D0%AE%E1%93%82%EA%B3%A7%E2%8E%94 is a language that was named in 2004, and it wasn't specifically named for annoying wiki admins, though the name is deliberately strange < 1543088452 563520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: was the esolangs wiki started in 2005? < 1543088462 690414 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right it's cyrillic < 1543088494 420512 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've sorted that according to unicode, and there are no others in the same alphabet to confuse matters. < 1543088510 266659 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think so < 1543088593 588944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then it's practically proven that it wasn't named to annoy esolang wiki admins < 1543088762 188940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's harder to prove that https://esolangs.org/wiki/(0) wasn't named for such a reason < 1543088828 522351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me, < 1543088839 399677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems I haven't finished the edits on the articles for the Amicus language family > 1543088934 480442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03B jonas 5* 10moved [[02Hyperamycus10]] to [[Hyperamicus]] over redirect: the article was morphed to talk about the intended language, not the mangled version > 1543088934 508948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03B jonas 5* 10B jonas deleted redirect [[02Hyperamicus10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Hyperamycus]]" > 1543088967 779583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hyperamicus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58494&oldid=58492 5* 03B jonas 5* (+0) 10 < 1543089007 964663 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, mezzacotta comic isn't loading. > 1543089067 2426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Amycus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58495&oldid=57661 5* 03B jonas 5* (+7) 10 < 1543089078 687743 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1543089095 947272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? none of them < 1543089098 626524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1543089108 134918 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest, on the front page < 1543089112 628007 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loaded eventually < 1543089126 323990 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i'm the only one to look at it, so it's not cached yet < 1543089148 155093 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i was there earlier today, so... > 1543089176 298423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Amicus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58496&oldid=57640 5* 03B jonas 5* (-46) 10/* A more formal definition */ < 1543089179 718938 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm used to it not loading early < 1543089235 44907 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it tends to time out until someone succeeds at loading it, and then it loads fast from cache later > 1543089294 212972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58497&oldid=54928 5* 03B jonas 5* (-50) 10 < 1543089410 119929 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very coherent today, although it reminds me of the end of the Anglophysics sf story i read < 1543089483 448659 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot`: do you read mezzacotta? also what's with the backquote? < 1543089483 936199 :fungot`!~fungot@88.98.228.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imho the chicken scheme libraries with proper dependencies and ease of use > 1543090190 443877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Amicus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58498&oldid=58496 5* 03B jonas 5* (-3) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1543090275 887036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Amicus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58499&oldid=58498 5* 03B jonas 5* (-32) 10/* Amycus */ < 1543091048 729443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543091215 310190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I should figure out is if https://esolangs.org/wiki/Amycus#Abstraction_elimination_from_the_inside applies in some form to Amicus, but I'm too tired to do that now. TODO self. < 1543091425 672652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Amycus#Restricted_variants is probably nonsense, I have to check that. < 1543092051 610577 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1543093149 591036 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543095637 30876 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1543096585 268514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543096992 175821 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is going to be more difficult if some names start with homoglyphs, with private characters, or with non-Unicode characters. < 1543097038 555781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not necessarily starting with, but anywhere in the name where the sorting is relevant) < 1543097065 284303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in making a decision problem variant of the discrete logarithm problem < 1543097069 646786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst keeping it computationally hard < 1543097104 71265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of decisions would work? for example, is "the discrete logarithm of x mod p even" a computationally hard problem? does it depend on the values of x and p? < 1543097177 105902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even simpler, "is there a discrete logarithm of x mod p?" < 1543097195 168287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there are three variables < 1543097205 411462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is there a discrete logarithm of x mod p to base b?" < 1543097665 674886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "is the discrete logarithm of x mod p to base b less than some value v" is considered computationally hard, that could work < 1543097833 878869 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543097840 4586 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahoi mates < 1543097875 810287 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should hire somebody through these crowdjobplattforms to document Burlesque for me :D < 1543097931 60726 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem is... there's no way I could verify that somebody did a good job < 1543099409 676188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543099482 480291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543100680 764638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1543101727 130178 :mroman!b2c03cf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.192.60.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1543101858 773585 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543102441 787846 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543103580 862333 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543103928 673391 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:dc57:3000:7890:dad1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543105791 652708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543106175 465107 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543108350 845218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543108546 840115 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543108736 248491 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543109011 406618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How in C do I make a DNS lookup in order to compare the result with the result if a inet_aton() call? < 1543109021 869879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/result if a/result of a/ < 1543111780 461922 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1543111797 842499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543113208 923150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-73.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1543116737 876520 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Wouldn't you use gethostbyaddr? < 1543116769 239073 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, really, to be reasonably modern and not-obsolescent, getaddrinfo < 1543116834 647483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not trying to perform a reverse DNS lookup (since the reverse DNS might not match the name that the server wants to use anyways) < 1543116923 879122 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sorry, gethostbyname, but getaddrinfo < 1543116939 318951 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the type does not seem to match? < 1543117043 888579 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The struct sockaddr type is a generic type -- you're intended to look at ai_family to know which type to cast the pointer to. < 1543117126 825092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is compared the length sizeof(struct in_addr) will that work then? < 1543117131 35414 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1543117178 535782 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct sockaddr_in, the type for an IPv4 address-and-port, contains a struct in_addr. < 1543117190 780380 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/multi/sockaddr_inman.html is a halfway decent explanation < 1543117210 524562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1543117284 179940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently this program is only IPv4, although later I can fix it so that if the REMOTE_HOST environment variable specifies a IPv6 address then the DNS lookup will use IPv6 instead. < 1543117298 786213 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543117367 957013 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably have an easier time just trying to rewrite it to work entirely with getaddrinfo, since getaddrinfo handles it a bit more comprehensively and correctly than you're likely to yourself. < 1543117375 863814 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543117477 749380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but can the address be compared properly by use of getaddrinfo? The address to compare it to is the contents of the REMOTE_HOST environment variable (set by xinetd, and contains a numeric dotted quad address) < 1543117572 587118 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can get the struct in_addr or struct in6_addr out of the getaddrinfo results just fine. < 1543117659 811350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and then can do the comparison with that, will work I suppose, since it is only the IP address which needs to be compared. < 1543117807 840971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also getaddrinfo can return multiple addresses, and won't that waste memory? < 1543117828 631630 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does briefly -- this is why freeaddrinfo exists. < 1543117848 851352 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeaddrinfo will free *all* of the allocated memory. < 1543117910 670912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the limit to how much memory it can use? < 1543118282 718081 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The API as stated does not impose any real limits. However, because it makes a DNS query over UDP in practice, that imposes a limit of at most 48 struct addrinfos being allocated. < 1543118314 463235 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the actual memory usage is a function of the number of A and AAAA records for the queried host) < 1543118727 197128 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543118965 326530 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543119337 887063 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem it can be a problem if it can be caused to waste too much memory < 1543119693 869540 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a report of a security problem with these DNS resolving functions, although it seems to be applicable only to AAAA records. I do not have IPv6, so presumably it is OK < 1543122226 269425 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543124803 511861 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543124961 759268 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.216.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543124961 996617 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.216.78 QUIT :Changing host < 1543124961 996716 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543127379 284367 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvewwslirelbzokt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543127849 198476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I think I implemented it now (with getaddrinfo), now I can try to test < 1543128118 220293 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it look like it is work < 1543130478 719834 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543131903 251520 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543133922 971562 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543137762 408104 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543143475 863956 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1543144313 727642 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543147347 353717 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-016-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543148110 394064 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-049-190.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1543148875 654785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alchemist14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58500 5* 03BMO 5* (+3626) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=6 |paradigms=[[:Category:Nondeterministic|non-deterministic]] |author=[https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:BMO BMO] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |typesy..." > 1543149158 203853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BMO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58501&oldid=57097 5* 03BMO 5* (+141) 10 > 1543151058 451792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alchemist14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58502&oldid=58500 5* 03BMO 5* (+298) 10 < 1543151294 883917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543151356 225824 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543151418 483962 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543152270 427613 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543153597 387583 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wgnoglqnilsjcyxo JOIN :#esoteric < 1543153882 766965 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543153882 856156 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com QUIT :Changing host < 1543153882 856198 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543154023 747089 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543155225 859294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543155385 582506 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1543155413 864480 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543158841 255658 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543159251 838041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1543160445 398482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alchemist14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58503&oldid=58502 5* 03BMO 5* (+6) 10 < 1543161312 840666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543165127 410705 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543165235 434110 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543167579 680769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543167604 590577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I may be misunderstanding this, but I think getaddrinfo allocates a linked list, and you can use freeaddrinfo to free any tail of that list < 1543167655 398303 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543167834 413481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but sure, there are other DNS query libraries out there if that's what you want < 1543167840 328417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones that behave very different from libc < 1543167962 417754 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543168186 840255 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1543168187 265018 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.224 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1543168187 471164 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.124.224 QUIT :Changing host < 1543168187 517739 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543169124 721580 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543172637 960474 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543172931 49470 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@search jokes < 1543172931 140213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1543172943 792312 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, wrong channel! < 1543174076 338950 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543175158 408854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I am implementing the Netsubscribe program, and I have implemented the DNS verification that works (it frees the entire list after checking though, since only the first entry is used; the address from it is copied out anyways) < 1543176233 505422 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543177575 521538 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543180619 198724 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543181209 204932 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543183548 325429 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1543184061 414647 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543184187 316491 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543185066 199001 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1543186254 765176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1543186255 617164 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :872) GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe. \ 1248) I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something < 1543186260 477082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1543186261 67344 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​norway//Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. It's a warm, dry place, at least compared to Québec. < 1543186271 739242 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1543186272 368744 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ronald reagan//Ronald Reagan was an actor so great that he managed to convince the US that he was the President. Then he created the Star Wars project to destroy the Soviet Union. < 1543186546 176044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? star wars < 1543186547 115240 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Wars was a missile defence system invented by Ronald Reagan. With it, he managed to destroy the Soviet Union, then rode into the sunset. < 1543188384 954121 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1543190423 537736 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cfnxdjpirmcsxzwk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543190436 635867 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-valucxdudnlymyae QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1543190436 732048 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in < 1543190456 405930 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543190879 12113 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lrdpejkrhkmadznb JOIN :#esoteric < 1543191214 154019 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1543191347 442568 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543191455 407298 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543191568 16305 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wutyzlydjqpdyhcm JOIN :#esoteric < 1543191594 696890 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543193927 395330 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543194225 85506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-115.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1543196084 123405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? van doom < 1543196085 23359 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :van doom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1543198823 785950 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543199361 783047 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1543200976 645215 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wgnoglqnilsjcyxo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543201639 996907 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543202040 935130 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543202566 572821 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1543206844 762829 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543207016 971301 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543207187 765569 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1543211017 705983 :MACUMBA!midnighty@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-wynemfuupggvlbfj JOIN :#esoteric < 1543211224 693814 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543211328 454042 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543211420 371746 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543211420 508668 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.121.223 QUIT :Changing host < 1543211420 508714 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543211768 204191 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, in this mahjong game now I earned 68100 points so far (it is now the south 2 round) (usually I do not earn that much, but I got seven dora once; two red dora, four kan dora, and one ura dora) < 1543212892 846367 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, new bitcoin crash recently < 1543213287 883295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the new incarnation of Bitcoin Cash? < 1543214226 321894 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1543215129 464001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like mahjong game? < 1543215146 991894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this. < 1543215150 963081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this mahjong game? < 1543215199 728418 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is which one the mahjong game? < 1543216275 81983 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wutyzlydjqpdyhcm PART #esoteric :"Kicked by @appservice-irc:matrix.org : issued !quit command" < 1543216666 223974 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543216836 141795 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543217002 169986 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-efncgekuejzazbel JOIN :#esoteric < 1543219279 101382 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xnevvzzxixbpvlxp JOIN :#esoteric < 1543221864 412295 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543223574 17980 :EightRC!~acominze@109.132.151.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543223632 458847 :EightRC!~acominze@109.132.151.150 QUIT :Client Quit < 1543224314 97773 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lrdpejkrhkmadznb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1543224314 866857 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qelamtszdqypnvnr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1543224316 32983 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1543224336 738633 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-guhczgxqkxidoirc JOIN :#esoteric < 1543224657 430482 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijwfstakbkguuomu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543224795 402147 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543225130 877072 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url (programming language) < 1543225131 883318 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/%28programming%20language%29 < 1543225490 436564 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking HackEso seemed like the easiest way to get those parens escaped :) < 1543225538 114507 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally < 1543225765 802101 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i was trying to link this on reddit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Train_(programming_language) < 1543225961 873003 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't heard of Train before < 1543226054 352399 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone added it to wikipedia's esolang page recently, but failed to make an article < 1543226080 807369 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people on reddit were having a bit trouble finding any actual website < 1543226149 686021 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(r/esolangs) < 1543226260 711158 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can just escape the ) with a \ in reddit markdown links < 1543226281 942451 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use the [link label][1] and [1]: http://... format with the link verbatim < 1543226285 851355 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543226302 83049 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but urlencoding works too :p < 1543226303 861929 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that why people use that < 1543226311 51310 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit? < 1543226317 646516 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1]: ... < 1543226338 566680 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I mainly use it because I find it easier to read and stuff, but yes < 1543226421 766713 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay > 1543226808 909584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfoctal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58504&oldid=58440 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1) 10/* Example Hello World generation */ < 1543227941 267917 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1543229512 299762 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543229516 21259 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is the next olist? < 1543230572 803261 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543230597 265954 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543234388 660736 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1543237593 919161 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543237805 522290 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543237829 465840 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1543237855 559521 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543239206 296595 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543239367 209126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1543239368 892612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 261320Z VRB01KT 9999 FEW030 SCT045 OVC060 05/M00 Q1004 NOSIG < 1543239410 642678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `nolist ) < 1543239684 999841 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543239766 249724 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543240392 752412 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543243774 820883 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1543245407 910516 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1543245615 526860 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543248013 116016 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1543248021 287697 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's suprising < 1543248031 777082 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MC88100 and RISC-V are stupidly similar < 1543248723 348075 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543250278 274443 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543250341 165585 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1543250961 300543 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543252048 14225 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543252269 776095 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543252752 827350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543254441 377528 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.221.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543254603 519757 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543254603 960819 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.221.22 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1543254604 352294 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.221.22 QUIT :Changing host < 1543254604 352339 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543254770 707830 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543254881 345073 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543255104 724723 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1543256196 88017 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543256931 754418 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543256956 712416 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543257012 498806 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543257440 563270 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543257899 855130 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543257946 760110 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543258006 514943 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543258125 735372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543258406 285361 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543258456 454045 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543258813 151159 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543258885 440254 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543259194 895818 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543259266 849814 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543259627 805381 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543259759 357337 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543260152 513307 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543260250 667485 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543260630 709072 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543260641 304090 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543260949 432875 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543260954 911407 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543261269 709044 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543261342 69527 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543261586 243599 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543261588 764119 :sleepnap1!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543261722 783707 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543261794 424617 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543262052 178503 :sleepnap1!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543262208 969216 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543262281 7143 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543262609 721189 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543262654 10007 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543262903 283828 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543263032 746202 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543263099 825493 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543263348 693939 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543263420 260179 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543263728 412497 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543263733 976157 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543264068 678483 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543264088 938889 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543264470 675892 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543264501 338376 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543264891 986864 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543264901 110864 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543265248 825116 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543265321 113476 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543265437 342564 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xnevvzzxixbpvlxp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543265639 409898 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543265694 295200 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1543265751 446287 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babylang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58505&oldid=58008 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+439) 10TBFS interpreter > 1543266083 154852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58506&oldid=46838 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+228) 10Add some more trivial substitutions. < 1543266331 770161 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543266375 301727 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543266544 84701 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njmnlvnpqabrrowr JOIN :#esoteric < 1543266678 256389 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543266710 983402 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543266714 210728 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543267075 401689 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543267146 927435 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543267454 832996 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543267465 262964 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543267836 669359 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543267969 881048 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543268341 434133 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543268533 615614 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543268854 191676 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543268926 979751 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543269156 762569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: please increase the pace of olist updates twh < 1543269241 209418 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543269373 535289 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543269598 992365 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543269658 206602 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543269990 524486 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543270123 161158 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543270162 718335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543270290 173770 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543270290 369353 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543270627 510856 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543270677 395273 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543270707 35798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1147 < 1543270707 778083 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1147: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1543270710 346426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that's more like it tdh < 1543271096 957320 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543271163 649807 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543271538 669392 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543271610 859713 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543271961 746362 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543272033 165263 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543272054 30668 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543272341 997190 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543272353 575429 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543272721 199034 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543272763 719020 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543273101 432699 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543273132 80848 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543275124 187494 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543276739 183222 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1543278209 824441 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543282293 859994 :zzo38_!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543282308 529963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1543282310 756717 :zzo38_!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca NICK :zzo38 < 1543282631 728622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543283443 582336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543295402 98916 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543295497 989317 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543297366 959704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543297747 355115 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543297873 784423 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543297873 936139 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.218.23 QUIT :Changing host < 1543297873 936181 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543299639 813373 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543299651 264979 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543299847 687745 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what someone else wrote about Sirlin's chess variant: "PS. Like most people, I consider the name Sirlin chose for his chess variant--Chess2, the Sequel--to be full of hubris. Probably part of the reason never caught on with chess fans....." < 1543300337 322524 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1543300476 698845 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1543304435 421832 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njmnlvnpqabrrowr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543307988 4947 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543308056 209031 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1543310911 159327 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543311762 242630 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two kind of restricted double move chess variant can be "get out of the way" and "get in the way". < 1543311811 974021 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is "get out of the way" then you can play X and then Y, but only if Y by itself is not valid. If it is "get in the way" then you can play X and then Y, but only if Y by itself is valid but Y followed by X isn't valid. < 1543311827 501754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will you think of this? < 1543314017 15245 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi! < 1543314070 43998 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I’ll quote these to my friend who’s interested in these kinds of chess AFAIR. Maybe he’ll say something < 1543315383 458590 :heyoka!~soulez@unaffiliated/soulez JOIN :#esoteric < 1543315422 780807 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm if the outsiders' minds get wiped, does that include the three fiends? maybe _they_ don't know how bad the snarl is either... < 1543315485 672093 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543315511 503650 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally archive trawled to http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html where he thought of this < 1543315524 297321 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "get out of the way" still seems very powerful. you can usually move with the same piece twice in different directions. < 1543315565 738109 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what about the additional restriction that X and Y move different pieces? < 1543315573 330495 :heyoka!~soulez@unaffiliated/soulez PART :#esoteric < 1543315615 902802 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: dunno < 1543315633 690236 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I really haven't thought much about this, and I'm not that great at chess or chess variants) < 1543315807 294029 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-131-86.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543315807 384023 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-131-86.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1543315807 384086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1543317747 493959 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543321360 147675 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1543322576 92318 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mockunexmonqerdp JOIN :#esoteric < 1543322645 206299 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1543323136 841464 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543323137 15125 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543324105 61238 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543324108 791971 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543324130 470828 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543324581 877874 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543324717 433770 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1543327008 351775 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543327048 530773 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543328649 779527 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1543330459 481374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58507&oldid=57938 5* 03DMC 5* (+85) 10 < 1543330911 206366 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543331135 935829 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543331148 18754 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543336075 94754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I failed to mention (but should have done) that you have to move two different pieces < 1543336095 172127 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it can be two different pieces of the same kind) < 1543338206 226614 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543339009 839431 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543340952 623663 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a syntax where variables are marked for whether they are being read, written to, or both. < 1543341051 538022 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@z + $x $y; // read x, add y to it, then write to z < 1543341051 628192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1543341075 449773 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#x + $y; // add x to y and wrtie back into x < 1543341082 861801 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543341096 780590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: hi < 1543341120 269494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is related to a some things I was talking about recently. < 1543341194 806977 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.120.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543341194 922345 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.120.225 QUIT :Changing host < 1543341194 922383 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543341276 804362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm confused. < 1543341296 829691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What delimits what's written to the variable? < 1543341303 228634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's #x + #x? < 1543341498 360179 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would read x and add it to itself, writing back into x < 1543341842 230080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the same as #x + $x and $x + #x? < 1543342077 754781 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543344831 505485 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-efncgekuejzazbel QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543344843 409592 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijwfstakbkguuomu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543345053 4018 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543345528 909817 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess I havent really thought into the effect of order in this < 1543345591 626075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the delimiter a statement or what? < 1543345602 498551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's f(@x + 1)? < 1543345903 38039 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gghfgjpfmtkheqor JOIN :#esoteric < 1543346534 461593 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zlvcbtxbpssjnwzd JOIN :#esoteric < 1543346796 789714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543347051 45875 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543347149 872420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543347291 828859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543348068 537899 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543348598 217467 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gghfgjpfmtkheqor QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543348612 849376 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zlvcbtxbpssjnwzd QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543348853 987477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543348870 195158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-131-86.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543348870 285691 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-131-86.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1543348870 332555 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1543348988 433807 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kyuwaizmiupzmycc JOIN :#esoteric < 1543349621 807861 :siraben!sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wifwvpemkbaofyie JOIN :#esoteric < 1543350329 210024 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543350564 879743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543350608 677122 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so basically, my idea is that within a "phrase" the components are marked for their roles < 1543350645 733490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 > 1543350686 299144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58508&oldid=58506 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+813) 10Generic Interpreter Patterns < 1543350728 122993 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe the order of the components then, no longer matters < 1543350955 116118 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or matters in a different way < 1543351077 921630 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#w $x / $y $z; // multiply w by x, and divide by y*z, then put the result into w < 1543351240 647588 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#x f #y $z; // f called with x, y, and z as arguments, with x and y being called by reference, and z being copied < 1543351324 617383 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a)f(b,c); // a valid declaration of f < 1543351407 168718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I can borrow some part of that for my language idea < 1543351419 445176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like ". rw(x)` + 1" for "x += 1"? < 1543351436 155009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :. f(rw(x)`) // x = f(x) < 1543351448 993209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :. min(rw(x)`, y) // x = min(x, y) < 1543351528 618066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20181127.html < 1543351529 156496 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found < 1543353586 482952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543353605 678792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about it a bit more, "is there a discrete logarithm of x mod p to base b?" has to be computationally hard in the general case < 1543353623 204804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1543353647 744088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "just square b" but of course that doesn't change the problem at all < 1543353692 242770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are x, p, and b? < 1543353747 446337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is computationally hard, but I'm not entirely sure < 1543353782 85496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it might actually be. you may need to factor an integer for that. < 1543353790 317072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know really < 1543353793 324957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: anything, the question is whether we can solve this for arbitrary x/p/b < 1543353808 929854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original problem is "what is the discrete logarithm of x mod p to base b" with prime p < 1543353812 107059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but they're natural numbers? < 1543353814 817975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not attached to p being prime < 1543353819 881520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, natural numbers < 1543353830 538444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :logarithms in modular arithmetic are weird < 1543353848 805599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 2**3 mod 5 is 3, so log_2(3) mod 5 is 3 < 1543353870 536532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use "discrete logarithm" for that so that it doesn't get confused with the more normal sort of logarithm < 1543353944 29059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is related to the M:tG TCness proof, I'm trying to come up with a concrete program that can easily be written in The Waterfall Model and yet which is known to be beyond the world's ability to solve < 1543354002 952523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete logarithm is the underlying problem behind a decently large proportion of crypto, so if it were solvable in general the implications would be pretty far-reaching < 1543354021 958354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a single question, or can it be a uniform distribution of a few hundred questions, at least one of which is hard to solve? < 1543354023 239005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err, solvable in practice, I mean; it's clearly solvable in theory due to the possibility of brute-forcing it) < 1543354039 800205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I would like to have a single, concrete question that is hard to solve, i.e. I know what the specific quesiton is < 1543354042 454400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even half of them being hard to solve or something < 1543354053 639828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, so you want specific numbers. that's harder. < 1543354115 773381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this needs to be a decision problem, not a "return a number as the answer" problem, because you don't need to know what the resulting gamestate will be if you can predict who wins the game < 1543354119 795037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want a single question like the Goldbach conjecture or even the Riemann conjecture < 1543354172 904409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, we don't allow side channel outputs from the match, such as ante or Double Cross < 1543354199 656414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want this to be viable in a tournament, and the side-channels don't exist there < 1543354236 87905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldbach conjecture is possibly the easiest well-known unsolved problem to implement in The Waterfall Model, but the program would be unfortunately large, I think < 1543354244 338928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several nested loops and you need a prime generator < 1543354302 510387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, prime factorisation turns out to be strongly related to discrete square root (a fast solution to one would solve the other) but the decision versions of them work differently from the return-a-number versions < 1543355252 764866 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543356157 789639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, ante is not used anywhere, and Double Cross is not used in tournaments < 1543356229 517829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you could probably do a three-way output like win/draw/lose, but that doesn't help that much < 1543356297 395405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the other un side effects are tearing cards apart, and some physical dexterity feats < 1543356661 977592 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543356954 554937 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1543357158 975336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical dexterity isn't really a side effect, it doesn't have an effect beyond the game < 1543357165 952729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like an input than an output < 1543357271 812386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's mostly an input, yes, but it could have effects beyond the game I think < 1543357275 948965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rare, sure < 1543357327 371527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any effects that force physical dexterity behaviour from other people? < 1543357332 426576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just effects that give a consequence for it < 1543357341 227572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably necessary to avoid forcing people into situations they're uncomfortable with < 1543357423 785500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are if you use Mindslaver < 1543357431 453969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that, there aren't < 1543357434 356991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1543357439 269158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps barely < 1543357482 682642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Collector Protector is more similar to tearing up cards than the physical dexterity stuff < 1543357485 641164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suspect physical-dexterity, verbal-component, etc. cards are partial counters to Mindslaver < 1543357504 688885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that if you don't perform the action, the Mindslaver likely can't make you do it < 1543357514 828219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the Mindslaver user could do the action themself, not sure on that < 1543357518 617412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a ruling on the topic? < 1543357537 817681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's an un-ruling < 1543357542 547733 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Mindslaver and singing the song < 1543357549 367996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that they aren't counter < 1543357570 875033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use Mindslaver to make the opponent perform certain physical feats, the ones that appear in an activation cost, < 1543357584 652251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they can concede the game to avoid that < 1543357625 489030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are decks that try to tear up all the opponent's cards with Mindslaver and copy effects and some sort of loop < 1543357657 69588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually an interesting strategy, since it likely wins you the whole match, not just the game < 1543357675 761188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to pull off of course < 1543357712 999684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't prevent the opponent conceding < 1543357735 79889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a commonly-claimed combo that claims to prevent the opponent conceding but it's been ruled that it doesn't work, you can always concede regardless of what cards attempt to say) < 1543357735 888448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, and the opponent can concede in the match with the calculations too, even before the calculations finish < 1543357763 494652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: my counter to that is to set up the situation so that the two possible outcomes are a loss for the opponent, or the draw < 1543357779 24497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation before the calculations start is strictly better for them than the situation they'll get after conceding < 1543357818 964053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1543357821 522694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, of course, they might concede anyway, given that the deck is missing the usual kill card you could probably say "wait, I don't have the kill card in here, let me see if I can work something else out" to discourage the concession < 1543357833 927095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tearing up cards is similar < 1543357841 206067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it? < 1543357863 863306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not tearing up a card the opponent owns is a strictly better situation than tearing up a card they own < 1543357953 678680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can probably leak almost 60 bits by tearing up cards < 1543358018 298671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a few more if some cards are exiled or on the stack when you go off and you can't get them back, or if some cards are basic lands or other cards so cheap that nobody cares if they're torn up < 1543358018 490567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm pretty sure you can't tear up cards in an automated way anyway < 1543358031 433751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it'd require one of the players to make a choice to do so < 1543358036 250356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can, but again only in such a way that the opponent has an opportunity to concede < 1543358045 29916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not counting concessions < 1543358064 545209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there would be choices before they go off < 1543358072 601110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be playing a good deck and just win before you can do it < 1543358077 70746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name drain power < 1543358077 720857 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drain Power \ UU \ Sorcery \ Target player activates a mana ability of each land they control. Then that player loses all unspent mana and you add the mana lost this way. \ A-R, B-R, U-R, RV-R, 4E-R, 5E-R, ME4-R < 1543358082 666158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name blacker lotus < 1543358083 169324 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blacker Lotus \ 0 \ Artifact \ {T}: Tear Blacker Lotus into pieces. Add four mana of any one color. Remove the pieces from the game. \ UG-R < 1543358094 225474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, plus Mindslaver and Cytoshape < 1543358098 211623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make a card into a copy of blacker lotus, then make it into a land < 1543358109 245082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why make it into a land? < 1543358121 230988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that drain power works on it < 1543358123 534843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it a copy of Blacker Lotus or Chaos Confetti, and Mindslaver the oppoentn < 1543358135 686433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you also need to give one player shroud so that there's no choice in drain power's targeting) < 1543358139 332880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean Drain Power as an alternative to Mindslaver? < 1543358140 731016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1543358143 740878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, mindslaver means that you're making choices < 1543358156 787650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindslaver is useless as the output from a TCness construction < 1543358157 221742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1543358160 834537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just changes who makes the choices < 1543358166 183736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean choices in that way < 1543358170 295457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll have to think of that < 1543358193 814611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant only the card's owner making choices < 1543358199 121596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1543358205 945080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like that we've moved on from a combo that lets you rip up your opponent's cards to a combo that forces the opponent to conced unless they rip up their own cards, though < 1543358224 400053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was never the case < 1543358282 157016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could do it if your opponent didn't concede first (Blacker Lotus doesn't say "activate this ability only if you own this card") < 1543358298 780819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to gain control of a cytoshaped blacker lotus and activate it < 1543358324 169767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a combo that lets the opponent rip the card or concede, and a bit bigger combo that lets the opponent choose whether you tear up their card or they concede (you have to give yourself control of a permanent the opponent owns for that) < 1543358344 460002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's how you do it without Mindslaver < 1543358390 96264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but firstly, Mindslaver is easier to pull off, because it counters some things the opponent could do, and people consider forcing the opponent to tear up their cards a better outcome than tearing the opponent's cards up themselves < 1543358423 447926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Mindslaver < 1543358423 976698 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mindslaver \ 6 \ Legendary Artifact \ {4}, {T}, Sacrifice Mindslaver: You control target player during that player's next turn. (You see all cards that player could see and make all decisions for the player.) \ MRD-R, SOM-M < 1543358437 621170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I should continue processing that Oracle data I downloaded < 1543358443 57733 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day < 1543358444 740475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not today < 1543358520 700917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wasn't Mindslaver updated so that it couldn't see cards outside the game? < 1543358536 244680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it was, for tournament reasons < 1543358555 486512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't look at the sideboard of the player you control (unless it's yourself) < 1543358560 1780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the reminder text is a bit misleading, assuming it's still valid < 1543358566 526992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was `card-by-name last updated anyway? < 1543358574 705280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name conclave guildmage < 1543358575 369529 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1543358577 598643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a year ago or something < 1543358581 453974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^ from the most recent set) < 1543358585 370704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when Yawgatog stopped updating < 1543358590 318358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you don't count UMA) < 1543358596 17339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe before that < 1543358651 633372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` /bin/ls -dl share/mtg/allsets.txt < 1543358652 267288 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 22 Oct 5 15:43 share/mtg/allsets.txt -> allsets-2018-05-21.txt < 1543358707 808865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look, Yawgatog now has an announcement that it won't update the oracle list anymore < 1543358737 56506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this means we'll have to work on our backup plan: I've already downloaded an Oracle snapshot, but haven't parsed most of the card data out from it yet; < 1543358760 282368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should eventually automate downloading the Scryfall database, which ideally won't be too hard because it has some kind of nice api < 1543358770 918682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :donwload the text part of it that is, not all images < 1543358824 515227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :magiccards.info has died, so Wizard's stupid website and Scryfall are the only card databases out there < 1543358830 932950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the only up to date ones < 1543358869 27243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably I should make a version I can upload into HackEso too < 1543359143 971747 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543359233 164335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though on the other hand, < 1543359260 335385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://media.wizards.com/2018/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020181005.txt share/mtg/MagicCompRuels_20181005.txt < 1543359261 194122 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http:/media.wizards.com/2018/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020181005.txt: No such file or directory < 1543359289 87598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20181005.txt http://media.wizards.com/2018/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020181005.txt < 1543359290 188550 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2018-11-27 22:54:49 URL:http://media.wizards.com/2018/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020181005.txt [707789/707789] -> "share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20181005.txt" [1] < 1543359302 394649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tr -d \\r < share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20181005.txt > share/mtg/rules.txt < 1543359302 968215 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'tr --help' for more information. < 1543359306 685819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` tr -d \\r < share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20181005.txt > share/mtg/rules.txt < 1543359308 355901 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1543359313 873381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` head share/mtg/rules.txt < 1543359314 417723 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules \ \ These rules are effective as of October 5, 2018. \ \ Introduction \ \ This document is the ultimate authority for Magic: The Gathering competitive game play. It consists of a series of numbered rules followed by a glossary. Many of the numbered rules are divided into subrules, and each separate rule and subrule of the game has its own number. (Note that subrules skip the letters l and o due to potential < 1543359345 579439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: save a local copy if you haven't yet < 1543361068 667949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I made a copy < 1543361773 12703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want a SQLite database of Magic: the Gathering cards, and including one column that tells when it is last updated. I invented remote virtual table protocol so it is possible to make a remote service too (such a remote service ought to allow constraints on the last updated column for purpose of only downloading the changes when you make a copy; any constraints not understood by the server will be implemented by the client automatically) < 1543362388 751795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, I want to extract the data too and semi-automate it so I can extract it four times a year. not necessarily an SQLite database, but whatever, you can convert. < 1543362458 256564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I probably won't have time for that in December < 1543362461 839834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I have an oracle dump < 1543362476 189172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't parsed it yet < 1543362969 210215 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1543363105 960647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a different format can also do, since it can be converted < 1543363241 321689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found a Python program at https://github.com/shmup/mtgsqlive which is made for converting Magic: the Gathering card data from JSON to SQLite and vice versa < 1543363265 814328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old? does it work with the Scryfall format? < 1543363355 357956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says MTGJSON format, although maybe it might be possible to modify to work with Scryfall format < 1543364576 124582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543365167 302664 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-049-190.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543367695 800764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543367784 412938 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543368030 826548 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543368469 421010 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-107-036.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543368712 440518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I'm still not sure how that proposal works but I like it more now. < 1543369474 525554 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543369766 716098 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543370095 817900 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543370410 773806 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543371065 470987 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543372622 329568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1543372750 550455 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-107-036.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543372874 418248 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543377600 802958 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1543380766 283906 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-099-095.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543382793 608 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543383552 180051 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea about UNIX kernels is adding a new kind of kill() function that requires a timestamp, and if the target process started after the specified time then it is an error and no signal is sent. < 1543384352 1899 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mockunexmonqerdp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543387430 787226 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543392084 196112 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543393118 414401 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1543393916 557778 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1543393959 857607 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of making pid_t an always-increasing 64bit number < 1543393967 685658 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pid reuse ever occurs < 1543394424 290856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pids are scow < 1543394598 34963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to avoid the race < 1543394825 289160 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what race? < 1543394955 69674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between getting a pid and killing it < 1543395113 126197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. in Windows you get a handle to a process, which is more like a fd (I think?) < 1543395423 250783 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonreusable pids would totally avoid any race < 1543395593 952070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1543396283 237769 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pids are annoying because in the time it takes to do 'ps', read the pid you need, and 'kill' it, the process could potentially end, and the pid could be reused < 1543396437 250195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you potentially want to hold a pid for much longer than that. < 1543396452 723652 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1543396539 830752 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's possible to mistype a pid and kill the wrong process, which is why I think there should be a more interactive tool for looking at and killing processes < 1543396569 140259 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if 'top' had a way to select a process and kill it < 1543396663 131795 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1543396688 176617 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1543396790 327703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, I've actually been asked about something like that, outside of #esoteric, as in, how to use a pid (in kill or otherwise) without accidentally targeting the wrong process < 1543396887 874891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: sadly we can't just change pids to 64-bit, there are a lot of kernel-process abis that expect them to be 32-bit. the only thing we could do is add a second kind of pid and consistently call it a different name than pid. but there are like three dozen system calls and all of /proc that's based on pids, so that's not an easy change. < 1543396914 805237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or technically we could start a new architecture, but even then there'll be badly programs that use an int instead of a pid_t. < 1543396952 42454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix is scow anyway < 1543396953 678061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrap it < 1543396986 424562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: there's a little bit of protection top could do, but I don't know of a complete protection. let me check that old email where someone asked me this. < 1543397191 95013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, instead of a new pid, it might be easier to add new interfaces that allow you to do various process operations like kill, sigqueue, setpriority etc given a directory handle into /proc, sort of like the openat family of functions < 1543397876 336805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, we didn't find a good workaround < 1543397964 120032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we know some partial workarounds, but nothing that really guarantees to solve the problem in worst case when someone forks really quickly, the scheduler is against you, and you don't want potentially bad side effects < 1543398093 257811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is fork even a good API? Is it worth all the trouble? < 1543398103 382282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the benefit of it? < 1543398272 992665 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543399442 200140 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( sounds like a challenge, ms. ambrose ) < 1543400025 957826 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dehydrated space rations are soemthing I could well concieve a michelin-starred restaurant serving < 1543400580 113623 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just turn it into foam first < 1543400605 594892 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shave -> < 1543401362 679409 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543401389 813673 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543401491 46837 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IMO it's worth, though some of its design has led to hard to track down bugs. look at the complicated structures that the Win32 API has to use to define all the state that the new process gets. < 1543401517 200868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: bugs for fork include accidentally ignored signals inherited by subprocesses, file descriptors leaked by multithread race conditions, etc. < 1543401582 323009 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of those aren't a problem with fork. file descriptors should have started out not inheritable *on exec* by default (which is what Win32 does; inheriting through fork is fine) < 1543402052 469434 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543403128 431826 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543403477 9966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-80.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1543404441 871209 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last panel here is looking more and more like a chekhov's gun at this point http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20180326 < 1543404570 305582 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and today mezzacotta loaded instantly for once. < 1543405416 920949 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ithmfrpvmmpejjfx JOIN :#esoteric < 1543405792 241727 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1543412140 343970 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543412361 901806 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543417430 248486 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543417565 141183 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543418366 957620 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543421463 420606 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543422549 414740 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543424568 493643 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543424647 316124 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543424735 825521 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543425629 965487 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543426284 125236 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1543426563 368108 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu > 1543427266 619883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Abc123mewot 5* 10New user account < 1543428347 304239 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o > 1543428720 90431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Capuirequiem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58509&oldid=9562 5* 03Nthern 5* (+212) 10/* Implementation Source */ new section < 1543429117 960261 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543429390 804356 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543432271 856254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543432858 898022 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric > 1543434536 196880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58510&oldid=58507 5* 03DMC 5* (+101) 10 < 1543435690 961742 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543436071 703193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one way is to reserve one process ID number for a timestamp PID, and one function takes a timestamp and PID and always returns the timestamp PID number; any call in the same thread which is using timestamp PID will use the remembered timestamp and PID. < 1543436104 782795 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is not important for waitpid() which is only for child processes; it is used when you want to deal with processes other than child processes.) > 1543436294 987394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58511&oldid=58510 5* 03DMC 5* (-6) 10 > 1543436342 697559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58512&oldid=58511 5* 03DMC 5* (+10) 10 < 1543436346 969557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543436381 310415 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1543436445 755769 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543436713 293607 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1543436730 526570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think of using /proc too < 1543436805 302462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that is another possibility to do, using the functions like openat() and so on < 1543437205 813711 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you use that then you can check the timestamps) < 1543438960 245166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543439190 673562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fork also requires a complicated implementation with copy on write < 1543439200 255942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it precludes or nearly precludes having a single address space < 1543439252 186655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It seems to me that maybe better APIs for operating on other processes would be better than the fork approach? < 1543439265 390835 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.29.186.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543439265 499894 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.29.186.194 QUIT :Changing host < 1543439265 499951 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543439346 18720 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is vfork() but it is deprecated and the way of its working is different on different systems. < 1543439428 365711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so? we already need full copy on write for mmap MAP_PRIVATE, probably even for MAP_SHARED as an optimization, for loading a writable but initialized data segment of an executable, etc. The problem isn't the complicated, but that some people complain that forking can take a long time if the forking process has a lot of memory associated to it. < 1543439464 805355 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the answer to that is just "then don't do that". Prefork from a smaller parent process, not from the database server process that mmaps your hundred gigabyte database read-write and starts a hundred threads. < 1543439518 303524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fork is simply more general, because if you want, you can still make a spawn-like model by having a fork server process and serializing only the state you want the child to have to it from the controlling process through some controlling channel. < 1543439518 738808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of a silly answer, why shouldn't the database process be able to run programs? < 1543439525 964513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you couldn't do it the other way. < 1543439565 635827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the database server can, but not from the large process. if you have such a huge process, it doesn't cost much to have a smaller watcher process. that can do other things too, like log fatal failures of the big process or whatever. < 1543439597 696868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that you should always fork. By all means, use a single spawn server process with clean state if you want. < 1543439636 266579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that MAP_PRIVATE requires copy-on-write when you specifically request it doesn't mean that you should just give up and COW all the time everywhere. < 1543439669 682083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't expect the kernel itself to have a small and simple spawn function, because the kernel doesn't know what the "sane defaults" for the new process are, if there were sane defaults they'd be obsolete in three years, and there's not much point to have a huge spawn function that takes a hundred arguments to set all process state. < 1543439695 922557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying there should be one-size-fits-all defaults. < 1543439699 178400 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do that kind of prefork, it could be helpful < 1543439706 312211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a long way to go from that to fork. < 1543439720 100988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there are library wrappers over that, if you want. ones with and ones without pre-forking. < 1543439729 181139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: heck, I think they even added one to posix < 1543439749 633518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix_spawn? < 1543439750 362753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and if COW is really your problem, then cheat with vfork, but that's _hard_. < 1543439756 882979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: something like that, yes. < 1543439768 772617 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: posix_spawn is expected to use a vfork-analog, FWIW. < 1543439774 902433 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and on common systems, actually *does*) < 1543439778 622939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then good luck setting up whatever process state that particular spawn doesn't support. < 1543439815 832865 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, posix_spawn is definitely somewhat limited in the state it can set up. < 1543439833 766616 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it has enough to set up the state a POSIX shell would need to, but not much more. < 1543439837 574643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. and every spawn will be, unless it takes huge tables emulating every system call ever. < 1543439853 916028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the argument in favor of fork? That it's convenient to set up a particular process state after forking? < 1543439866 899472 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "easy" workaround is to use a helper binary to do more. < 1543439907 265846 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It was easy to implement back in the day, while obviously being sufficiently general to serve the task. < 1543439909 443583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that, and fork isn't hard to implement by the kernel once it already wants that and multithreading and general mmaps and shared memory < 1543439926 893922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still easy to implement now < 1543439944 925650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Win32 functions let you operate on a different process. For example VirtualAllocEx lets you allocate memory in another process's address space. < 1543439956 661934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Unix had that. < 1543439971 634866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For debuggers if nothing else. < 1543439972 164198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you complain about the speed, just look at how slow in practice it is to spawn a thousand simple small programs from a simple small program on win32, and on unix. unix still wins by like two orders of magnitudes. < 1543439991 20077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: linux has most of that, with a combination of /proc and ptrace < 1543439998 223276 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I were designing a thing now, I'd set it up so you could create a "zygote" process, use system calls on it to set the state, and then start the process. < 1543440009 182629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, that's what I was thinking. < 1543440013 478711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace and much of /proc are definitely for debugging only < 1543440014 598914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: How do you mmap in a child process? < 1543440016 923316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're very general < 1543440040 385319 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, to be honest, I wouldn't design a thing now. There's no fucking way it'd do anything more than be personally entertaining. < 1543440068 437149 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1543440087 679067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, yes, that in particular might be hard and it may be good if there was an interface for it. you'd probably have to take over a little spare space in the process to bootstrap that, save its contents and the registers, and run an mmap call in there. and catch all signals during. < 1543440110 990978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that process has no writable page, you're screwed. < 1543440124 65328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace can write to non-writable pages < 1543440133 22800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? no way < 1543440134 601314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It converts them from MAP_SHARED to MAP_PRIVATE if necessary < 1543440137 643185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Linux at least. < 1543440140 528287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1543440231 830614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: still, it can be hard to restore it to MAP_SHARED later if you can no longer acquire a handle to the underlying file or shared memory segment or bsd shared memory segment from /proc < 1543440249 738125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1543440250 295040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use ptrace for system call emulation and other stuff like that too and does not have to be only for debugging < 1543440262 513911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/or shared memory segment or bsd shared memory segment/or sysv shared memory segment or posix shared memory segment/ < 1543440304 545853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah! < 1543440320 511731 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no < 1543440325 359821 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.29.186.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543440325 540263 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.29.186.194 QUIT :Changing host < 1543440325 540294 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543440333 231315 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you still need a little bit of writable memory in the process address space for that < 1543440362 731090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're planning to debug, you can probably just arrange to set aside a little space for that < 1543440413 588145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the system call emulation is the opposite of what we want < 1543440478 913873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: system call emulation means that the traced process calls for a system call, but you ask linux not to perform that call, instead you do whatever you want and set then registers in the traced process to pretend whatever result you want from the system call and continue it. you could jump away to run other code for that if you want. < 1543440490 141259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing is heavy, you rarely want to do that, but it's possible < 1543440498 140766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually there are better ways for most special cases < 1543440524 253216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like replacing library functions or fuse < 1543440682 975372 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you might want to override some system calls, such as to change the time that the program knows, or to use a proxy server for all network connections if the program does not implement that, or to change things in a program that you do not have the source code to be able to recompile it, etc < 1543441423 124552 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ gore: < 1543441443 717804 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cout << "percent errors: "; < 1543441464 783594 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("%f\n", errors/entries); < 1543441506 55910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in an actual codebase. < 1543441511 709720 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is yes < 1543441514 337276 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross. < 1543441534 508536 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it isnt even a percent < 1543441549 925857 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL. < 1543441559 29363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perone errors < 1543441621 362269 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543441689 193038 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543441735 484736 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my brain insists that perone is pronounced as if it was an italian loanword < 1543441743 167893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perunit errors < 1543441872 496408 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/pɛroʊneɪ/ < 1543441919 62183 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed it to "" < 1543441930 735529 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody reads this output anyway < 1543442145 921926 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least, they shouldn't. they should be looking at the json < 1543442168 855138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiren < 1543442183 146207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a rumor structured logs and structured errors might be good. < 1543442187 476615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you do something like that? < 1543442283 22751 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1543442311 790357 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of code still has terminal outputs < 1543442317 607697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it like? < 1543442363 910095 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: annoying because I have to write a bunch of database code and manage an internal tool to display things nicely < 1543442380 760351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, why? < 1543442384 97077 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, since I'm the only one who understands that system < 1543442398 278488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it should be no worse than string logs because you can always just print it as a string < 1543442442 224091 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, the json is uploaded to an internal server which has a web tool on it that displays pretty graphs showing how much better we are today than last year < 1543442464 401600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Oh. < 1543442481 288885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems problematic if you can't just run the program hth < 1543442496 119515 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only other person who knows how that works just quit < 1543442515 376176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should ask for more money hth < 1543443418 156515 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1543444152 614092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I would make timestamps to work in version 12 of X window system protocol, is that you have 64-bit timestamps which must be nonzero and that it is guarantee all timestamps after some request or event are greater than all timestamps before that request or event, so that it is monotonic (but the timestamps do not necessarily correspond to any specific interval of time; this is implementation dependent). < 1543444488 923889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah. but, in particular, changing the time the program knows is really hard, because time is reflected in like a shitton of system calls, ones that put timestamps in various data structures, plus some /proc or /sys files may have to be rewritten too < 1543444522 473316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's one of the hardest things to do consistently without at least a full user-mode-linux or similar OS emulation or full system emulation < 1543444551 609804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those cases like invisibility in HHGG < 1543444566 482070 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 out of 100 times it's easier to actually change the system time and do with it < 1543444592 710927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: structured logs and structured errors => I say ask zzo38 < 1543444627 322219 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although it can be helpful when you need it. It should be a user library to deal with these things as needed and then programs that need it can use the user library, calling the kernel only to call ptrace() and do the other stuff in the user mode < 1543445628 158162 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1543447586 224143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, oerjan edited https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=La_Weá back. < 1543447650 362217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, stupid firefox < 1543447664 953371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/La_We%C3%A1 < 1543447676 969605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only copy-pastes the url properly if you select ALL of it < 1543447682 614504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this < 1543447703 368515 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a reasonably low-level language (lets you specify memory layout, no hidden allocations, etc.) that has single-argument functions where you just pass one struct by value for multiple arguments? < 1543447728 237794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe also has flexible struct literals to allow all kinds of things like keyword arguments, default arguments, varargs, etc. < 1543447744 202825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it should be possible and also nicer than most languages, but I'm not sure about the details. < 1543447747 190798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we talked about this at some point on #esoteric I think < 1543447768 582369 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. Though I've been wondering about this flexible struct literal thing more generally. < 1543447772 428756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be in the logs < 1543447842 44538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of languages have flexible integer literals, for example, right? < 1543447881 898041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where maybe integer types are 32-bit or 64-bit, but integer literals are unbounded, and you implicitly coerce a literal to a type with a runtime representation. < 1543447905 630169 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1543447941 934670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not that many languages that have that. That only works if the compiler can derive types. So rust and haskell does it, and perhaps SML, I'm not sure. < 1543447972 830013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some other languages like C and C++ just have some easy conversions of integers to other integer types, plus explicit notations for some types of integer literals. < 1543447972 986374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't do it. < 1543447985 468918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So rust and haskell does it, and perhaps SML" < 1543447993 868529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell and Haskell are the same language < 1543447997 691876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1543447999 76745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I've seen languages that do it though I don't remember which one. < 1543448002 117382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1543448002 845713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell in fact does even more < 1543448009 846954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said Haskell doesn't do it. < 1543448018 403809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1543448021 704003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1543448023 934148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell _doesn't_ do it? < 1543448025 575082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1543448043 268583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the literal "123" is a value with a runtime representation. < 1543448069 857821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular it's the value "fromInteger (123 :: Integer)" < 1543448086 215467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure. that works < 1543448094 39887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about literals that can exist only at compile-time. < 1543448121 699990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was one other language that does that, maybe golang or D, I dunno < 1543448151 326693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm thinking of extending a thing like that to struct literals. < 1543448162 103578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more than rust in fact, in the sense that expressions with certain simple arithmetic operations from integer literals are computed to full precision and are allowed to overflow the largest runtime integer type < 1543448173 316521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe you have "struct T { int x; char y; };" < 1543448192 309522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have the literal value "[x=5, y='a']", which doesn't have a runtime representation < 1543448212 267651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can write "T t = [x=5, y='a'];" < 1543448227 289342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not sure why the Haskell way is that much different from the Rust way. The main difference is that in Haskell, you can define new integer types, and that there's a library bigint type. < 1543448230 62005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543448267 988773 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543448297 601111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The point is that there's a runtime representation of these bigint values, so the whole "literal that only exists at compile-time" thing doesn't come up. < 1543448302 416677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there is one proposal for rust for something like that, but only for untagged structures, not for tagged ones < 1543448373 630703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have struct Args { int x; int y; char c = 'q'; };, and void f(Args args);, you could write something like f[x=5, y=8], or f[5, 8, 'z'], or so on < 1543448395 932017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that (x,y) is an untagged tuple-like structure, P(x,y) is a tagged tuple-like struct after a declaration like struct P(T0,T1); Q{a:x,b:y} is a tagged non-tuple-like struct, and they want non-tagged non-tuple-like structs, < 1543448418 214892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with named members, but no tag. would need some weird rules, but seems possible. < 1543448431 266711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where these things are just specified with regard to literal->struct conversion rules, not anything specific to function application. < 1543448459 455223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flexible struct literals seem useful anyway for all sorts of reasons. < 1543448465 270873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the proposal recommends that they can be implicitly converted to smaller untagged structs that miss some members, but such _implicit_ conversion (as opposed to an explicit cast) seems fishy to me < 1543448504 387857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would be flexible in the sense that you can use dot-dot notation to include members from another non-tagged struct, possibly adding new members or replacing existing members < 1543448509 355425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the constructor that is < 1543448534 469707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use default values of course, because there's no declaration of the tagged type that would define the default values < 1543448535 510299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it seem fishy? < 1543448557 242940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't a cast between types, to be clear. It's only a "cast" from literals to values. < 1543448585 733921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: dunno... doesn't seem very rust like. I'm not entirely sure, could work with a smart enough compiler that gives a warning for typical mistakes where you add an extra member that the function you are calling doesn't support. < 1543448587 157432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you have struct A { int x; }; and struct B { int x; };, you can't write A a; B b = a; < 1543448598 522097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly care about Rust? < 1543448608 113562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering about this kind of feature in general. < 1543448645 717072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you could call f({x:3,y:0,z:1}) but f actually takes an {x:i32,y:i32} argument so the z value will get ignored, silently or with a warning < 1543448662 321154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, that should be an error. < 1543448663 523406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you were the one who asked about any low-level language, sorry < 1543448681 686252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, that's what I think too. it should be possible to cast explicitly, perhaps with the as operator < 1543448707 175652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I dig up the RFC? < 1543448708 606010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but "this isn't compatible with language X" is a different claim from "this is a bad feature" < 1543448736 259369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I think it would be bad in any language, but perl is already like that < 1543448775 111212 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what's an example of a place where it would be bad or confusing? < 1543448776 309313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying "compatible", more like it's not in the kind of mindset that rust wants, catching as many errors in compile time as possible, sort of like Haskell < 1543448777 966889 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: perl5 has the option to declare arguments tho < 1543448824 607684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, I just said one. I said only the implicit upcast is what would be a bad feature, because f({x:3,y:0,z:1}) would silently throw away the z:1 member, when the caller might think the function does handle that argument < 1543448837 972314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you say "cast", what do you mean? < 1543448868 626586 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: an explicit conversion to a different type. like a C-style cast, but with a slightly more agreeable syntax than a C-style cast. < 1543448905 833787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's important that I'm only allowing implicit conversions from literals to values here. < 1543448907 306970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for struct values only, not references < 1543448927 316758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I understand, but doesn't {x:3,y:0,z:1} count as a literal? < 1543448927 700805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means everything can be checked at compile-time, because literals don't exist at runtime. < 1543448953 681641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I specified that that's an error. < 1543448958 188145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1543448977 783297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if this change gets accepted to rust (though it likely won't be), then they'll probably change that part < 1543448992 83504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that's my guess < 1543449012 21573 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait in what sense do literals only exist at compile time? < 1543449026 77725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said this would be a bad feature in every language, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Rust. < 1543449031 582349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering what makes it a bad feature. < 1543449045 763875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's only that implicit conversion that would be a bad feature < 1543449047 514218 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought of literals as nameless consts < 1543449067 225247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, but in the context I'm specifying this the implicit conversion is very important. < 1543449071 433104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not certain the rest of the proposal, that is, untagged (undeclared) structs with named members, would be a good or bad feature < 1543449074 608306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where would it be a bad feature? < 1543449099 36739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so what kind of implicit conversion do you want? a conversion to a tagged struct? < 1543449142 682535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conversion from a struct literal to any struct. < 1543449160 414199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it passes checks like the one I mentioned. < 1543449183 535021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was actually a plan, perhaps already landed in rust now, to make a struct constructor for tagged structs where you don't give the struct name (which is only the constructor name, like in Haskell), and it's only valid if the typechecker can figure out the struct type expected, otherwise it's an error < 1543449203 340710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the syntax was, it's a funny looking one but one that makes sense < 1543449208 900251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1543449319 508252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be asking my question badly because it seems like you have something in mind for why this would be bad but you keep talking about Rust instead < 1543449527 400159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know this isn't completely the same, but I might also be misunderstanding you because I'm tired < 1543449587 806461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said this would be bad in any language and I'm trying to figure out why. < 1543449605 539421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of some ways it might be confusing but did you have anything in particular in mind? < 1543449657 117634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no. I'm not saying that < 1543449733 130999 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only saying that an implicit conversion that throws away some members would be a bad idea in most strongly typed languages I can think of (perhaps not in a weakly typed language, and especially not in a golf language), even if you convert from a literal. I'm not saying any of the rest would be bad. < 1543449752 908678 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not saying it would be good, I just don't know < 1543449770 823723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I agree. So it should be an error to throw away members. < 1543450031 870934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I think the universe of things that can exist at compile-time is larger than things that have to have a memory representation and so on. < 1543450035 706228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you do so implicitly for unnamed structs. for an explicit cast it's ok, and for a subtype that is declared as a subtype (inheriting another type) it should be OK for casting a reference, and probably for casting a value too. < 1543450042 89642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ does the latter < 1543450068 268195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a point in C++-style inheritance. < 1543450073 211603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1543450080 483332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a matter of taste < 1543450092 643994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :its' good for some things, but is often abused, and it's not clear how useful it is really < 1543450110 13377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are better alternatives probably but that's a separate discussion. < 1543450154 52760 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do want C++-like inheritence, then I think you also want implicit cast of references towards supertypes, when unambiguously possible < 1543450175 142387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ does allow that < 1543450181 6542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, there might be cases where you want implicit casts. < 1543450203 960048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not the thing I'm talking about here. < 1543450223 448531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1543450225 859521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems much trickier and easy to make confusing. < 1543450501 963804 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543450539 319733 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543451056 251419 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543455779 185202 :user24!~user24@p200300886901CD006CF4EE9732908329.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543456373 946738 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543458529 771531 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543459223 771961 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1543459564 432529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-254-214-21.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543462901 550179 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ithmfrpvmmpejjfx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543466884 120819 :viccm!8a5e3971@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.94.57.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543466932 907200 :viccm!8a5e3971@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.94.57.113 PART :#esoteric < 1543468200 893993 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543470773 425278 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1543470993 422311 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.129.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543470993 594245 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.129.68 QUIT :Changing host < 1543470993 594320 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543477671 522158 :user24!~user24@p200300886901CD006CF4EE9732908329.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1543479564 691769 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543479576 799423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543481178 285614 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543483938 855821 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1543483938 944145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1543483938 944196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543484578 280403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-214.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1543484664 1046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwkgxtrtidxqfpkd JOIN :#esoteric < 1543488338 499664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543490772 949711 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543494799 947663 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543495028 580896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In M:tG, MaRo wrote a two-parter article about how the Arabian Nights plane and various other older planes are now completely closed off and M:tG won't return to them. Little does he know that he's already lost. Even if those planes have been closed off, Dominaria is by now infested with sea serpents, cloud efreets, djinns, air elementals, and best < 1543495028 700342 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric : of all, demons to sell my soul to. < 1543495174 966361 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sea monsters live on despite that M:tG tried to kill them off by not printing color-hoser cards, such as islandwalk and islandhome. Demons live on despite that Wizards once tried to kill them off because of cultural concerns on the east asian markets, and once tried to kill them off because of power level combinations. Dark Ritual and Sol Ring are < 1543495175 104241 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Modern-legal, yet Wizards keeps reprinting them. < 1543495308 217972 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the lower rank members of our air force, I'm joined 1/1 flying sprites for {B} and for {G}, and we even managed to corrupt the fairies of Lorwyn to join our cause. < 1543496729 155992 :jpag_!d498b372@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.152.179.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543496739 806967 :jpag_!d498b372@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.152.179.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1543496894 476150 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\{B\} and for \{G\}/$& and birds for {W}/ < 1543497074 624093 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome jpag_ < 1543497075 862350 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jpag_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1543497440 583603 :jpag_!d498b372@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.152.179.114 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1543500027 385949 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543503303 695559 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they fix youtube, or was it never in a state where you could get control-M to simultanously toggle the browser's mute tab switch and the youtube player's mute switch and they could be in opposite phases? < 1543504085 316273 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1543506537 524364 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1543507417 492846 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1543510649 769030 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543510723 738031 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543512369 569718 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1543512669 247756 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1543512945 690256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543514034 545431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543514086 467540 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543514100 526751 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.58.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543514100 715726 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.58.203 QUIT :Changing host < 1543514100 715766 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543515344 536251 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543515367 442125 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1543515385 799959 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543515889 847010 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543515925 787390 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543520827 975342 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543521387 495939 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host109-149-154-37.range109-149.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543523039 286670 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543524277 847896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check-in 684013cef6 of SQLite adds a feature (not released yet) that now in the xBestIndex method for virtual tables there is the possibility to specify that the constraints are unusable, without using the messy way that was previously used. < 1543525505 634742 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543525517 186194 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.58.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543525517 275906 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.58.203 QUIT :Changing host < 1543525517 275971 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543526115 756469 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Nthern complains on the wiki that the capuirequiem implementation link is dead < 1543526826 177467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: edit all your virtual table impls to do that conditionally in new versions then! > 1543527513 573350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Capuirequiem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58513&oldid=33861 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+31) 10Broken link < 1543527546 537008 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Once it is released, then I will make it to use that (at least for the virtual tables where this is applicable; in some cases, any set of constraints is usable) < 1543527592 642062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, it might be better to wait for a release < 1543527625 602003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before it is released anything could be changed anyways < 1543527646 519399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :code it now in a branch so you can push it out soon after the release :-) < 1543527783 97431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not really intend to; I will just wait until it is released to change my programs < 1543527796 714014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1543528230 404748 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1543529453 986946 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet another meeting spending the first half hour trying to resolve shitty meeting software < 1543529471 426485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in linear logic, you can go from a multiplicative connective to its respective additive connective? < 1543529480 452222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: hehe. is it videoconferencing? < 1543529525 65078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So from A ⊗ B to A ⅋ B, and from A ⊕ B to A & B < 1543529537 87005 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't know if it's google meet having a problem, or soemthing else, but I can't see anything or hear anything < 1543529557 611389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I'll rephrase. is it supposed to be videoconferencing? < 1543529634 251125 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is supposed to be, but there's no video, and no audio < 1543529665 710679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: how many people supposed to be on the meeting, and how many different sites? < 1543529957 899962 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hand meeting < 1543529969 329836 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone in like 5 different countries < 1543530033 70820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no, I mean from the conjunction to the disjunction. < 1543530564 282552 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar SNU < 1543531121 846221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1543531624 776426 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a9e-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1543531787 383608 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bceeeb-225.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1543533844 143473 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: meeting is over. I asked somebody else and apparently nothing important was said < 1543533871 834067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: so, normal meeting. ok. < 1543535081 867137 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543535095 978135 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543535180 653719 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1543535367 806493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS is now over 322000 sequences? wow! I remember the 100000 celebrations < 1543535383 358144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it keeps growing, the sequence numbers may yet overflow six digits < 1543536130 768091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1543537113 422288 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543537153 825745 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543537520 293558 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net NICK :sdhand_ < 1543537528 351816 :sdhand_!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net NICK :danieljabailey < 1543537609 308974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543537619 513885 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 QUIT :Changing host < 1543537619 513935 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric < 1543538368 973469 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543538384 905480 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543539989 152699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543540128 628645 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543540183 253549 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543540484 657818 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543541125 846777 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-134-81.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543541125 935998 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c213-103-134-81.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1543541125 936031 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1543543840 282097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-110.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1543544169 830402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o < 1543544181 301642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543544725 435903 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwkgxtrtidxqfpkd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543545673 228509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543545792 537944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543548755 233394 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xobltydrnujzvixe JOIN :#esoteric < 1543554648 917555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not the only one who has written comments to the SQLite mailing list about unreleased changes to SQLite; someone else did too, complaining about the internal name of a function in an extension. The name has been corrected. > 1543555470 630907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03ShareMan 5* 10New user account > 1543555710 804173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58514&oldid=58466 5* 03ShareMan 5* (+327) 10/* Introductions */ < 1543556906 51920 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543556990 939629 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543557467 696435 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543557485 973437 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543557486 37160 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.142 QUIT :Changing host < 1543557486 83789 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543557588 949911 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543557688 736600 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543557768 911226 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543559703 247139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543559757 384719 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543560114 657618 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xobltydrnujzvixe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543561830 731921 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543563202 140146 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543567100 654351 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543567742 31447 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1543567754 781770 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1543569023 149875 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oktnzdhoofkdlrwk JOIN :#esoteric > 1543569152 949899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* 10New user account > 1543569990 65054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58515&oldid=58514 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+261) 10/* Introductions */ > 1543570113 389063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58516&oldid=57920 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (-14) 10/* Quine */ < 1543570968 380741 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1543574874 815106 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543579580 999630 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543579915 253826 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1543579915 343885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1543579915 343918 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1543580946 4630 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543580966 435085 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543580966 579373 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.125.142 QUIT :Changing host < 1543580966 579420 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543581483 480249 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1543581522 403683 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1543586432 998683 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543587941 254453 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543589149 645454 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host109-149-154-37.range109-149.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: http://corewar.co.uk < 1543589406 995011 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric < 1543591714 249336 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.176.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543591728 251605 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.19.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1543592048 438355 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.176.99 NICK :arseniiv < 1543595021 526303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1543597680 842804 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : in the multiplicative case, i think not < 1543597716 976049 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : i think someone considered a rule called "mix" which allowed one direction, at least < 1543597744 806280 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was validated in some semantics, like coherence spaces or something) < 1543597754 384086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is different from the mix rule? < 1543597906 158678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm < 1543598078 339116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, this is just the mix rule. < 1543598087 916199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I confused it with something else. < 1543598290 917542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski++ < 1543598705 361794 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, if you think of tensor as producing results independently, and par as producing them in an interacting way, one might expect to be able to vacuously consider the former as a special case of the latter < 1543598731 589476 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recall how linear implication can be stated in terms of par) < 1543598811 537101 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tensor-continuation would consume the results in a dependent/interacting way (consider multiplication of say natural numbers, we combine information from both parts, together) < 1543598860 922359 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a par-continuation would consume the two interacting result, in an independent way (like one process communicating with one of the two results, and another process communicating with the other one) < 1543598903 86340 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the results really are interacting, we'd still get three processes which are connected to each other. if they're actually independent, it looks like we get disconnection .. < 1543599416 262214 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1543599913 6885 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1543599913 95876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1543600293 45411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Any idea about models of linear logic without mix? < 1543600548 14981 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i have much of anything useful to say there, no :/ < 1543600555 433924 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543600692 416328 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543600700 429492 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.124.40 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1543600709 973945 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.124.40 QUIT :Changing host < 1543600709 974041 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543601393 110349 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oktnzdhoofkdlrwk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1543603775 741025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aegxxkkkhlmmzqhu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543604531 274926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1543604542 977397 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1543605123 127606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1543605125 370586 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :182) ... come to think of it, \ 190) GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment < 1543605910 517643 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no -O4 < 1543606381 694749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does -O take any numbers < 1543606385 793129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all scow < 1543606558 852594 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O65536 < 1543606789 291701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -OOO < 1543606813 552039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has optimizations that you can't even turn on or off individually, only with -O < 1543606820 425187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a scam < 1543607778 422292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because -O is for when you want fast compilation, -O0 is never useful, -O2 is if you want a well-optimized output even at the cost of somewhat slow compilation for large programs, and -Og if you really hate printf debugging and want to step through everything in an interactive debugger < 1543607832 1791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and -Os is for the stage of the boot loader that has to fit in the space left in the hoot sector on a very old floppy with 256 byte sectors < 1543607933 489391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only -O and -O2 are useful really < 1543607989 687605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's 512 bytes < 1543607990 582516 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1543608049 380904 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I thought that part is written in assembly. Maybe I thought wrong.) < 1543608056 891288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's why I said a "very old floppy" < 1543608086 1439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on normal floppies and "double density" 720K floppies and all the ones you'll meet the sectors are 512 byte sized < 1543608097 816235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 256 byte sized sectors used to exist in older floppies < 1543608110 188424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Those would predate linux... what other OS kernel was compiled with gcc before Linux? < 1543608112 188098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, most of it is in assembly usually < 1543608125 14854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean a non-gcc compiler, hmm < 1543608149 32450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'm exaggerating here with the boot sector really, I don't know how they're really compiled (I've seen the source code for that in grub-l once, but that was ages ago, and I didn't look at the *akefile) < 1543608161 25950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mean gcc < 1543608189 195162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the kernel itself, but a boot loader, which I guess is silly, because Linux used to boot directly from a floppy back then without a boot loader < 1543608221 683062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are even a few bytes reserved in the boot sector as substitutes for important kernel boot arguments, like the ID of the root device, since there's no boot loader to pass such argument < 1543608228 775491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they removed that from Linux a few years ago < 1543608255 334297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats ... oh well. < 1543608266 980332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it requires a boot loader, but there are at least seven boot loaders that can load linux, and most of them work from a floppy, so that's not a problem < 1543608311 512709 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those has 319 byte sectors, cute. < 1543608363 300729 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.183.229.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1543608409 714019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you know how large physical sectors are on a CD? it's not a power of two, because the payload size is a power of two, and there's a lot of extra checksum that's less than half the size of the payload < 1543608425 988379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-244.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/checksum/error correcting code/ < 1543608445 186607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not by heart. < 1543608472 789545 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2352 < 1543608498 594516 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1543608526 226823 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.176.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1543608586 58245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not true either < 1543609081 284758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summarizing wikipedia, there's 2048 payload encoded into 2352 bytes of data (98 frames, 24 bytes payload each) 3234 (98 frames, 33 bytes on CD-ROM). > 1543611388 866941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58517&oldid=58515 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10 < 1543612704 551483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1543612767 741710 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543612767 788115 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.137 QUIT :Changing host < 1543612767 788183 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1543613452 530950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58518&oldid=55755 5* 03Ais523 5* (+170) 10/* Computational class */ link The Waterfall Model Online, because it's complete enough to be usable < 1543614588 153666 :user24!~user24@p200300886901F90019A8DB832BB148B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1543614612 497155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58519&oldid=57870 5* 03Cortex 5* (+855) 10 < 1543614736 338307 :MACUMBA!midnighty@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-wynemfuupggvlbfj QUIT :Quit: SuchZNC - Such ZNC, many free, w0w... -- https://suchznc.net < 1543615729 532914 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de PART :#esoteric < 1543617787 928832 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.183.229.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1543618419 553674 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1543618903 239995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1543619257 837078 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1543619412 953497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1543619546 388907 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543619546 487320 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.177.137 QUIT :Changing host < 1543619546 487376 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1543621609 945354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PGCC went up to -O6. < 1543621628 991747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldhome.schmorp.de/pgcc-faq.html#opts < 1543621691 488412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't a lot of optimizer things search problems that can take arbitrarily long? < 1543621704 683170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do compilers decide where to stop? < 1543621796 213547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they stop when they get bored. < 1543621808 441856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible for reproducible builds. < 1543621838 184692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, maybe I should be able to specify that sort of thing. < 1543621859 218777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the marginal gain of spending more time than whatever -O2 does is very small. < 1543621912 501937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can specify a lot of those things on GCC, with --param. < 1543621925 870669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a long long list at the end of https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Optimize-Options.html#Optimize-Options < 1543621984 239684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked there was code in GCC that literally checked if (optimization_level >= 2) { ... } < 1543622375 573793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you can suggest a correction to that, then