< 1542414090 403062 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542414131 703414 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://medium.com/vantage/type-in-your-hand-512a5a6cbb98 Wow. Awesome printing museums, and you can watch the pictures and descriptions on the web without having to breathe in any of the lead fumes. < 1542414337 795548 :wob_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-24-232.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542414876 741887 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542415640 874918 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : one-shot (affine) continuation < 1542416533 803912 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1542418819 436564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoEverything();14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58415&oldid=58414 5* 03Cortex 5* (-163) 10 > 1542418899 584895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58416&oldid=58205 5* 03Cortex 5* (+73) 10 < 1542419224 971929 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1542419502 534664 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ask shachaf regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet? < 1542419507 160733 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Io < 1542419507 294057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raphael L. Levien's language with continuations as fundamental structure, described in his paper "Io: a new programming notation" (1989-09-10) at and < 1542419507 340700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chapter 2 of Raphael A. Finkel's book `APLD', implementations `Amalthea',`Ganymede' - (perhaps you were looking for `@wiki Introduction to IO' ?) < 1542419515 492922 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where APLD < 1542419515 569720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Advanced Programming Language Design" by Raphael Finkel in 1996 at < 1542419797 144013 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well seems that last link is broken now, try . see chapter 2, section 3 for continuations in Io. also section 4 (power loops) is interesting) < 1542419801 275648 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Amalthea < 1542419801 322277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation made by Martin Sandin of the (continuation-based) `Io' language at < 1542419810 127650 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542419811 737901 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where Ganymede < 1542419811 802888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation by BMeph of the (continuation-based) `Io' language at < 1542419849 964378 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this place dead or < 1542419860 793686 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : i hadn't seen the site before, ty < 1542419871 176610 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cortex : i don't think so < 1542419895 67377 :Cortex!64066261@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.6.98.97 QUIT :Client Quit < 1542420141 907653 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf ^ < 1542420713 353395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: But do you have a link to the paper? < 1542420727 709928 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.213.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542420838 158553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: So what I want is something like callCC (\k -> ...) such that you can use the k freely as long as the stack frame still exists, but not once callCC returns. < 1542420864 843373 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542420864 932159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the same as one-shot continuations. < 1542420864 978782 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.213.198 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542420865 480483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.213.198 QUIT :Changing host < 1542420865 480531 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542421015 57414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I mean isn't just the stack frame but the actual continuation. < 1542421042 286789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I literally mean that the continuation, as in the rest of the program, can't be copied. < 1542421100 657458 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the web archive seems to have amalthea's implementation, good (i've sorta got used to such files missing even if the website itself is archived) < 1542421153 166476 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Cortex isn't a very patient ircist ) < 1542421599 616836 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : hm, i suppose you want DNE, then ? < 1542421795 354241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess DNE is linear and callCC is affine < 1542421814 873737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it matters that much, though. I guess the affine version is fine. > 1542421931 280101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echo Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58417&oldid=58373 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+148) 10/* Specification */ Note something fairly obvious < 1542422007 931403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: So now I think I want an explicit syntax, e.g. { x := foo`; ... } ---> foo(&{\x; ... }) < 1542422036 768428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular you might have something like { while`(p); ... }, to have the expression re-evaluated on every iteration. < 1542422452 364605 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( "The anatomy of a loop: a story of scope and control" by Olin Shivers in 2005-09 at , )
< 1542422463 208906 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( oerjan thinks a lot ) > 1542422464 269407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58418&oldid=46495 5* 03SplatterWorthy 5* (-139) 10felt the move command was "un-piet" < 1542422880 984865 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( cauliflower ) < 1542422969 765123 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roof light is blinking (on the blink?) < 1542422980 174176 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now it got worse < 1542423210 833340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1542423211 781892 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1542423219 573387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1542423221 108172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 170250Z VRB03KT 9999 BKN018 07/06 Q1036 RMK WIND 670FT 22005KT < 1542423230 538891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1542423230 706446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 170153Z 35005KT 1 3/4SM HZ BKN016 BKN020 12/04 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP146 FU BKN016 FU BKN020 T01220044 < 1542423258 948554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who knows how to read metar tell me which part of that says the whole area is enveloped in smoke < 1542423330 658584 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses FU
< 1542423440 808343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so it is < 1542423508 77365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/detar//echo "https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar/data?format=decoded&ids=$1" < 1542423509 540093 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/detar < 1542423511 850335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`detar KOAK < 1542423512 326379 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar/data?format=decoded&ids=KOAK < 1542423582 502244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately their decoder seems incomplete? < 1542423642 471798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/detar//echo "https://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/north-america.php?icao=$1" < 1542423643 946340 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/detar < 1542423653 552243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this website is sufficiently 90s < 1542423979 979188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`detar KOAK < 1542423980 468254 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/north-america.php?icao=KOAK < 1542424040 323368 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used Haskell in so long, and I now have a project where I think Haskell might be the best fit < 1542424398 331743 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542424545 755638 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1542428500 492422 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542429960 210479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58419&oldid=58412 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+149) 10/* Cat */ Linear A script version > 1542430217 927098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58420&oldid=58419 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+93) 10ttf font link > 1542430582 12955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58421&oldid=58420 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Cat */ needs U+3000 IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE to maintain alignment < 1542431936 818364 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1542431937 320620 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542433560 535688 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542433593 305401 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542441667 2507 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542441708 504665 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone seen this before https://puu.sh/C3b0P/9940d2d3aa.png ? I thought it was Malbolge first but it was not < 1542441857 66574 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem of finding the best query plan is equivalent to finding a minimum-cost path through the graph that visits each node exactly once." Is that like a traveling salesmen problem? < 1542442025 622004 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542442038 420751 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542443224 155105 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542443260 251011 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542443518 524830 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1542443845 386623 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1542443859 868330 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542445402 818156 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axzqpstgtksvumgo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1542445440 791248 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542446796 213004 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: later gator. < 1542452789 286309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.181.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1542454564 13206 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1542458366 392030 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1542460858 367261 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone seen this before https://puu.sh/C3b0P/9940d2d3aa.png ? I thought it was Malbolge first but it was not < 1542463868 271739 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542464080 747413 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1542464081 11433 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.208.27 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1542464081 406325 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.208.27 QUIT :Changing host < 1542464081 406374 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1542464672 165545 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yllcxmpfzmrvhkdv JOIN :#esoteric < 1542472528 849226 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1542474442 714519 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1542475844 812933 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1542475885 247507 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1542476425 439132 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542476547 310842 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1542482419 459433 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1542483870 662892 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542483874 202290 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542486185 94490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58422&oldid=58407 5* 03Cortex 5* (+21) 10 > 1542486517 894675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58423&oldid=58422 5* 03Cortex 5* (+9) 10 > 1542486646 741038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LMBC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58424&oldid=58413 5* 03Cortex 5* (+105) 10 > 1542487283 760642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58425&oldid=58416 5* 03Cortex 5* (+3) 10 < 1542487304 398868 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 > 1542487396 9795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58426&oldid=58425 5* 03Cortex 5* (+92) 10 < 1542487439 269935 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542487439 793456 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1542487472 924193 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1542487474 359384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apple Pie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58427&oldid=58405 5* 03Cortex 5* (+25) 10 > 1542487677 127803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58428&oldid=58177 5* 03Cortex 5* (+23) 10 > 1542487724 887124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58429&oldid=58428 5* 03Cortex 5* (+2) 10 < 1542489133 648044 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host < 1542489133 648092 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492010 863551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1542492126 967746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-DU14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58430&oldid=58421 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+463) 10/* Examples */ truth-machine, and double sided tablet example < 1542492372 980304 :wob_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492382 674156 :wob_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Client Quit < 1542492431 960019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1542492517 850013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1542492552 302799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1542492872 545032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw seven firefighting vehicles obviously already on the site of some big trouble today, in Budapest 6, at 2018-11-17 18:20+01:00. From the news article by the MTI (government news agency), there were ten firefighting vehicles, < 1542492891 179505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a big fire in the roof and top floor of an office building. < 1542492932 354459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What took me like 20 minutes to realize is why the news says that the fifth storey of a four-storey house was building. But it's really obvious in retrospect. < 1542493004 672110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to guess the solution? < 1542493097 530410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clue is that the news entry refers to two different sources for "fifth storey" and "five-storey office building", the first was said by a person using an office there, the second by the firefighters. < 1542493136 616094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you may need some local knowledge for this that differs in some European countries, and I'm not sure how it works in the UK. < 1542493196 337553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was in the city center of Budapest, so it's entirely impossible that the firefighters found out about this so slowly that the top storey of the building has entirely disappeared without trace by then. < 1542493232 924223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have most likely heared of the fire within 30 seconds from when someone has seen the smoke and recognized it as coming from a fire. < 1542493246 915033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they probably got there in less than five minutes. < 1542493299 846539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the topic still says cornucopia. nobody changed that. strange. < 1542493440 771437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, https://youtu.be/qA67T7FPBME video of ceremonial vote on CIPM conference by representatives of delegates of member states accepting new definitions of SI kilogram, ampere, mole and kelvin < 1542493514 931751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a formal celebration that the definitions had de facto been accepted by that time < 1542493518 660605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most obvious reason to me for a "fifth storey"/"four-storey" discrepancy would be related to different numbering systems for storeys < 1542493525 460213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the typical off-by-one goes in the other direction < 1542493558 896908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard numbering system in the UK is "ground floor" for the floor with the entrance, "first floor" for the floor above < 1542493566 16549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that one is actually consistently wrong in Hungary, "four-storey" always means that the top storey is the "fourth storey" < 1542493579 223204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a difference in numbering, just not that < 1542493596 221613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what you're saying basically < 1542493613 560149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although given how hilly places like Birmingham are, frequently there are multiple ground floors, so you can have, e.g. "lower ground, upper ground, first floor"… < 1542493640 616757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :places with more than two ground floors tend to use an entirely artificial numbering system; those aren't standardised and often make no sense < 1542493652 590703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some buildings in here also are 1 for the floor above the ground floor < 1542493658 85076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some aren't. < 1542493687 81869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ordinary buildings with the entrance to a floor right above the ground, that floor is called groundfloor and numbered 0 consistently < 1542493695 620934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :places in the UK which get a lot of foreign visitors often number the ground floor as 0, which makes things clearer for the foreigners whilst not contradicting the standard UK numbering scheme < 1542493748 932307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, given the standard correspondence 0=first, 1=second, 2=third, if "four-storey house" means that the top storey is numbered 4, it would be the fifth storey, and that would fix the discrepancy < 1542493769 325583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many buildings have the entrance on a storey that's either half a storey below ground level, and in that case, that floor is sometimes numbered 0 and sometimes -1, and sometimes people don't even know how it's numbered or use it inconsistently < 1542493777 594187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the biggest mistakes in English is to derive words like "fourth" from "four" rather than from "three" < 1542493799 902813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, actually English has lots of much bigger mistakes because it's English, but that one really annoys me < 1542493818 172871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should just call the ground floor zero, since the level above the ground is zero, since it is at the ground. < 1542493826 254327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lived in such a building, with the entrance a meter below the ground. the storey with the entrance had the office of a small company and some common rooms, the three floors above had apartments < 1542493840 112202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here floors below the ground floor are normally just called "basement", although you see negative numbers sometimes, especially if there's more than one of httem < 1542493842 933465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1542493862 411960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the storey with the entrance in that building was variously numbered 0 and -1, even in some official papers < 1542493900 800852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in buildings with an elevator, there is usually a consistent numbering because the elevator buttons are numbered, but the firefighters need not know about that numbering when they go for a fire < 1542493961 794445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bigger buildings on sloped terrain, it happens that the same floor with an entrance is right above the ground on one face of the building, but below ground from the other face of the building. sometimes there's even entrances to two different levels on the different sides. < 1542493966 584013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK the vast majority of buildings, other than dwellings/houses, that have multiple floors will have a lift (en_US:elevator) < 1542493982 473877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the numbering from that will work < 1542493998 763518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good example for such a building is the building K of BME (university), a rather large building < 1542494000 642207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is basically because public buildings require disabled access to every floor < 1542494014 962501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lift is normally the only practical way to do that < 1542494028 365357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one has five entrances, one on the front face from the Danube's side that is one storey higher than the other four entries on the other three sides of the building < 1542494062 294662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the storeys of the building have actually been renumbered a few years ago, with an offset of 1 < 1542494062 387470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be enough to indicate two ground floors, I think, in the UK < 1542494124 551273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the building where I work the floors are numbered LG, UG, 1, 2, even though there's only one public entrance (on the upper ground floor); the lower ground floor has some fire exits at ground level (it's on a slope) < 1542494145 2166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a loading entrance, I think (i.e. for moving goods from lorries into the building) < 1542494168 603369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use 0 for the entrance I think is good < 1542494194 603511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ais523: yes, that's correct about the storeys. the problem with 1-based ordinals themselves isn't specific to English, nor does it originate there. ancient Latin has had 1-based ordinals, which is why they say that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, the third day after his death on Friday. < 1542494221 415430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Jesus resurrection thing actually confused me a great deal when I was young < 1542494297 226399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for naming the floors, if the floor half below the ground is numbered -1, then floor 0 is generally called either "magasföldszint" (elevated ground floor) or "félemelet" (half[th] storey). < 1542494409 655874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have the word "mezzanine", which is basically a floor constructed inside the vertical extent of another floor (e.g. you have a large ground floor on one side of the building, but on the other side it's split into two) < 1542494424 274513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's common to have no floor that matches ground level < 1542494466 683623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in some areas the ground floor is about 50cm above-ground so that the basement can extend slightly above ground, giving access to natural light and a fire escape, but it's still considered the basement) < 1542494467 336955 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's especially confusing, because the day after easter sunday is a government holiday in Hungary, and it is called easter monday, and I also knew that Easter was (at least according to christianty) the feast of the resurrection of Jesus, so it was natural to assume that Jesus was resurrected on Monday then, < 1542494549 615602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only then it wasn't clear why Sundays in general were considered sort of the equivalent of the Sabbath by christianty, with the biggest christian churches claiming that one of the tenth commandments is to be understood to refer to Sundays now (though some christian churches disagree, and claim it refers to Saturday or Friday) < 1542494580 125965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that happens too < 1542494634 865758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact the floor with the entrance being slightly above ground is probably more likely for an office building in that dense inner city area than a floor a little below ground < 1542494679 682765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly because then the storey below the entrance level gets some light through windows partly lowered below the sidewalk < 1542494695 618585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/partly lowered below/lowered partly below/ < 1542494718 680527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think some hotels also have raised ground floors because it lets them install an impressive-looking staircase going up to them < 1542494730 761137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'll typically have a ground-level side entrance for disabled access < 1542494772 341727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone else have this problem about Easter when they were young? or did you just get some organized education about christian culture and so could avert that? < 1542494807 277477 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: kernel update < 1542494847 890493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, being an algebrist type of mathematician, one who cares about notation, I totally agree that ordinals should have started with 0, like "first, second, twoth, threeth, fourth ...", and generally use 0-based indexes without using the ordinals in the grammar sense, < 1542494899 357554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I absolutely freaking hate how lua, a language that was decently designed and decently implemented, has a built-in # operator and a built-in optimized representation for dictionaries behaving as arrays, both of which only work well if you're using 1-based indexes for the arrays, < 1542494909 666031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also absolutely hate how GAP uses 1-based indexes < 1542495093 174950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this GAP http://www.gap-system.org/ , for the record < 1542495458 452060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you might want a array index starting with something other than zero, but usually zero is better. < 1542495498 395552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-49.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, the most common is wanting one starting with -1, but one starting with 1 or even 2 happens too < 1542495878 325999 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1542495988 868168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1542496073 70619 :Zajt!~Zajt@c83-251-154-117.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1542497400 905653 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1542497435 471725 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1542498191 509531 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1542498214 902734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have starting writing the implementation of Netsubscribe. Currently it reads configuration from /etc/netsubscribe.conf and I have implemented subcommands "analyze", "checkpoint", and "vacuum", and configuration options for various limits and some permissions. Eventually I can also add the subcommands to use the protocol (mainly to use with xinetd), to post a note, list messages, set tags, etc. < 1542498322 371882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also have a few questions, such as how should I do deferred operations that can be scheduled to do later and if it can't be done, to try again later until it is successful or gives up?