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01:56:13 <moony> I can now type Ørjan's name properly.
02:19:18 <moony> `unidecode ⬚
02:19:19 <HackEso> ​[U+2B1A DOTTED SQUARE]
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03:04:42 <zzo38> I thought to implement a NNTP server program using SQLite database to store the data, although, it seem problem to me that the protocol is not Y2K compliant, isn't it?
03:08:03 <zzo38> How can we deal with this?
03:43:27 <Sgeo> What do currently existing NNTP server programs do today? They still exist, right?
03:46:47 <zzo38> I don't know, unfortunately. Correcting the protocol seems easily enough, but if you want to work with existing clients I do not know what to do about that.
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06:34:13 <zzo38> Can you encode Fermat's Last Theorem into Magic: the Gathering?
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10:51:46 <int-e> . ø Ø ( møøny )
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14:12:25 <moony_> mooooo
14:13:48 <moony_> out of curiosity, does Ørjan ping him?
14:13:57 <oerjan> hellø møøny
14:14:06 <moony_> hi
14:14:15 <oerjan> not in irc, but in logreading i grep for rjan
14:14:21 <moony_> I'll take that as a yəß
14:14:22 <oerjan> *in the client
14:14:33 <moony_> oh ok
14:14:45 * moony_ goes back to composing keys
14:14:48 <oerjan> so i was just seeing your earlier comment
14:14:58 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
14:14:59 <lambdabot> ENVA 291350Z 13010KT CAVOK 02/M07 Q1029 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15014KT
14:15:11 <oerjan> winter is coming
14:15:15 <moony_> yes
14:15:16 <moony_> luckily
14:15:17 <oerjan> or is here, rather
14:15:25 <oerjan> except without snow so far
14:15:27 * moony_ is in texas, and is finally no longer boiling alive
14:16:55 <oerjan> we rarely have this problem in norway.
14:20:09 <oerjan> `insanetemp 35.6
14:20:10 <HackEso> 96.0
14:20:25 <oerjan> that's the highest temperature ever registered in norway
14:20:30 <moony_> lol
14:21:08 <oerjan> that was in 1970. just 8 days before i was born, incidentally
14:22:41 <myname> i like that it's called insanetemp
14:22:56 <oerjan> the city of trondheim (where i am) apparently had 35.0 once, in 1901.
14:23:00 <moony_> Texas reached 120F in 1994.
14:23:17 <oerjan> `sanetemp 120
14:23:17 <HackEso> 48.8
14:23:23 <myname> out pathfinder party always refers to foot as "retard"
14:24:05 <oerjan> (he was six retards tall)
14:24:16 <moony_> myname: retard units. Sounds good to me. 
14:24:31 <moony_> Feet suck anyways. SI > all
14:24:59 <oerjan> technically HackEso may also have f2c and c2f defined, i think someone added those who didn't know about the older ones.
14:25:12 <moony_> what happened to HackEgo, anyways?
14:25:17 <oerjan> there's also frink, although does that work after the move...
14:25:29 <oerjan> `frink 2 m -> feet
14:25:29 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/lib/frink: error while loading shared libraries: libgcj.so.12: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
14:25:33 <oerjan> nope.
14:25:38 * Taneb is slightly over 6 light-nanoseconds tall
14:25:42 <oerjan> fizzie: :(
14:25:59 <moony_> Taneb: please invent the perfect unit of measurement
14:26:31 <oerjan> moony_: the cloud-at-cost server hosting it crashed and didn't come up again
14:26:47 <moony_> oh. RIP.
14:26:56 <oerjan> given that isp's reputation, it survived surprisingly many years before it happened.
14:27:02 <FaerieFly> Taneb: hmm, same
14:27:26 <Taneb> (a light nanosecond is a smidge under a foot)
14:27:40 <Taneb> Hmm, smidge is a good name for the perfect unit of measurement
14:27:47 <moony_> what's the definition of a smidg- ok
14:28:26 <oerjan> moony_: HackEso has the same hg repository as HackEgo did (possibly missing some days), but the surrounding linux system doesn't have the same installed programs so some things have broken
14:28:36 <moony_> rip
14:28:37 <Taneb> moony_: 1 smidge is the distance light travels in a vacuum during a single period of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom
14:28:49 <moony_> Taneb: so the new SI units
14:28:50 <moony_> ok
14:28:58 <Taneb> It's about 2 inches
14:29:12 <Taneb> 1.28 inches, apparently
14:29:22 <Taneb> 3.26cm
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14:44:03 <moony__> oerjan: dumb question of the day: Is MediaWiki markup turing complete
14:44:48 <FaerieFly> I want to say this has been brought up before
14:44:56 <fizzie> Aw.
14:45:21 <int-e> oerjan: I think I may have come up with the perfect thought bubble for you, with moony's assistance, of course.
14:45:35 <FaerieFly> https://web.archive.org/web/20131027001211/http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/wikimedia-proves-greenspuns-tenth-law
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14:46:46 <fizzie> I can install the libgcj package, but it'll be named libgcj.so.12, so if that frink binary is referring directly to libgcj.so.12, it's not going to work.
14:47:06 <fizzie> `` ldd -v lib/frink | paste
14:47:07 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.26915
14:47:15 <ais523> moony: MediaWiki has no way to write an infinite loop (unless you use Lua); this is intentional and blocks the TCness. However, if you add a looping construct, it's TC: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag
14:47:16 <oerjan> . ø Ø ( ØKAY )
14:47:37 <moony__> ais523: wow
14:47:39 <moony__> neat
14:48:18 <oerjan> moony__: as FaerieFly says, although i don't know it enough to say for sure, although isn't there some loop prevention in templates that might ruin it?
14:48:38 <moony__> oerjan: loop prevention is toggleable last i checked.
14:48:41 <fizzie> ...Chrome wants to translate the repository browser from Welsh to English...
14:48:42 <moony__> and previously didn't exist
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14:49:17 <moony__> ais523: YOU HAVE BEEN JUDGED.
14:49:24 * moony__ smites
14:49:46 * moony__ hopes ais523 isn't wearing reflective armor
14:50:02 <ais523> CFJ is me, though, and I wouldn't smite myself
14:50:52 <ais523> anyway, recursive template substitution isn't enough for TCness simply because it isn't actually recursive, MediaWiki detects recursion and blocks it
14:52:25 <ais523> if you allow it then you directly have untyped lambda calculus, which is obviously TC
14:52:40 <ais523> or, actually no
14:52:48 <ais523> as you don't have closures
14:52:57 <moony__> template calculus
14:53:01 <ais523> the "apply A to B" operation only works when A is a litieral
14:53:03 <ais523> *literal
14:53:37 <oerjan> fizzie: fwncy
14:54:44 <ais523> hmm, back in 2006 I was more literal about specifically how I was showing something TC
14:55:31 -!- moony__ has changed nick to ynoom.
14:55:36 <ais523> nowadays I often just say things like "this language embeds Thue" in the hope that everyone reading it who cares will know what I mean
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14:57:52 * int-e wants an `xkcdlist because the updates are so unpredictable (where is the Monday comic?!).
14:59:59 <ais523> oh, I thought I'd misremembered the schedule
15:00:09 <ais523> presumably if it's late, that means it's taking longer to make than most
15:09:47 <fizzie> ...
15:09:49 <fizzie> `frink 2 m -> feet
15:09:50 <HackEso> ​ \ (.:53): Gtk-[1;33mWARNING[0m **: cannot open display:
15:09:56 <fizzie> That's as far as I got.
15:10:10 <fizzie> Maybe there's some GCJ flag to compile it right that I'm missing.
15:10:52 <ais523> that looks to me like it's trying to open a GUI
15:11:01 <ynoom> ^
15:12:07 <fizzie> I think maybe it needs a custom main class to act as a command-line thing.
15:12:17 <fizzie> The one specified in the jar's manifest is frink.gui.SwingInteractivePanel, which does sound pretty GUI-y.
15:12:31 <fizzie> (I was assuming it'd just run headless when given the "-e ..." arg.)
15:15:35 <oerjan> aww
15:15:39 <fizzie> "To run the jar file in text mode (only), use: 
15:15:41 <fizzie> java -cp frink.jar frink.parser.Frink"
15:15:44 <fizzie> That looks promising
15:16:59 <fizzie> `frink 2 m -> feet
15:17:01 <HackEso> 2500/381 (approx. 6.561679790026247)
15:17:42 <int-e> what's this, a portmanteau of fringe and brink?
15:18:18 <int-e> (but it looks more like yet another `units' program)
15:18:28 <ynoom> `units
15:19:13 <int-e> ynoom: http://paste.debian.net/1049580/
15:19:36 <int-e> `` units 2m ft # does this work?
15:19:36 <HackEso> ​* 6.5616798 \ / 0.1524
15:19:42 <int-e> yay.
15:19:48 <fizzie> int-e: It's https://frinklang.org/ and I think it's pretty dead these days.
15:20:10 <ynoom> `perl6
15:20:10 <int-e> `` units 2psi hPa
15:20:10 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl6: not found
15:20:11 <HackEso> ​* 137.89515 \ / 0.0072518869
15:20:14 <ynoom> awwwwww
15:20:30 <ynoom> fizzie: could you install rakudo-star or something? The default timelimits are too short for me to install it i think.
15:20:32 <HackEso> 2527 units, 72 prefixes, 56 nonlinear units \  \ You have:
15:20:51 <int-e> oh, wow, that took a while.
15:20:58 <int-e> ah
15:21:02 <ynoom> ..yea time limit is too short
15:21:11 <ynoom> no linux binaries avaliable, have to build from source
15:21:16 <int-e> because it's interactive, so it's killed by the timeout.
15:21:34 <ynoom> what HackEso is worst at: compiling things
15:21:37 <int-e> 2 minutes, wow
15:21:48 <ynoom> `fetch https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz
15:21:51 <HackEso> 2018-10-29 15:21:49 URL:https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz [15825981/15825981] -> "rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz" [1]
15:21:53 * ynoom tries anyways
15:22:10 <ynoom> `` tar xfz rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz
15:22:20 <fizzie> ....
15:22:22 <HackEso> No output.
15:22:25 <fizzie> Please do that sort of thing in tmp/
15:22:31 <ynoom> mk
15:22:38 <ynoom> `` ls
15:22:38 <HackEso> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
15:22:52 <ynoom> `` mv rakudo-star-2018.06 tmp/
15:22:58 <HackEso> mv: cannot move 'rakudo-star-2018.06' to 'tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06': Directory not empty
15:22:58 <ynoom> `` ls tmp
15:22:59 <HackEso> paste \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ UnicodeData.txt
15:23:02 <int-e> `revert
15:23:07 * ynoom derps
15:23:08 <HackEso> Done.
15:23:16 <int-e> I hope that undid the tar xfz
15:23:20 <ynoom> you'd think i'd be good with the terminal now, i've used linux for nearly a year
15:23:39 <fizzie> tmp/ is a little unintuitive at the best of times.
15:23:48 <ynoom> `` ls
15:23:49 <HackEso> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ rakudo-star-2018.06.tar.gz \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
15:24:04 * ynoom goes to remember how to use tar
15:24:29 <fizzie> `` ls tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06
15:24:30 <HackEso> build_msi.bat \ Configure.pl \ docs \ LICENSE \ MANIFEST \ MoarVM \ modules \ nqp \ patches \ ports \ rakudo \ README \ tools
15:24:34 <fizzie> It's uncompressed in there now.
15:24:37 <ynoom> oh ok
15:24:38 <int-e> `url quotes
15:24:39 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/quotes
15:24:41 <ais523> ynoom: x to extract / c to create, f to use a file as the tarball (rather than a tape drive)
15:24:44 <fizzie> (From your mv.)
15:24:59 <ais523> you can add a letter to specify what sort of compression's in use but when extracting, it's typically autodetected anyway
15:25:09 <ais523> and you can add v to show the progress by printing out filenames
15:25:13 <ynoom> `` cd tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06; perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --make-install --prefix ~/bin/rakudo
15:25:15 <HackEso> ERROR \  \     Can't compile simple C program. \     Failing command: gcc  -o try.o -c try.c 2>&1 \     Error: No such file or directory \  \ Cannot continue after this error. \ On linux, maybe you need something like 'sudo apt-get install build-essential'. \ On macOS, maybe you need to install XCode and accept the XCode EULA. \ Command failed (status 512): /usr/bin/perl Configure.pl --optimize --prefix=/tmp/bin/rakudo --make-install \  \ Configuring and b
15:25:17 <ais523> that's about it in terms of common uses of tar
15:25:24 <ynoom> ow
15:25:40 <ais523> so normally it'd be "tar xf tarball.tgz" or "tar czf tarball.tgz file1.c file2.c"
15:25:50 <ynoom> `` gcc
15:25:50 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: gcc: command not found
15:25:54 <ynoom> aaAAAAA
15:25:57 <int-e> fizzie: if you want to prune the repo, you still have a chance.
15:26:05 <ynoom> `` clang
15:26:06 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: clang: command not found
15:26:10 <int-e> `culprits bin/frink
15:26:12 <HackEso> nitïa
15:26:19 <ynoom> `gcc
15:26:20 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gcc: not found
15:26:22 * ynoom pokes fizzie 
15:26:23 <int-e> `culprits lib/frink
15:26:24 <HackEso> ompil r anuall nitïa
15:28:03 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, I sort of expected that to break.
15:28:30 <int-e> it's okay, nitia has been pretty lonely :)
15:28:38 <int-e> now they have three new friends
15:29:42 <fizzie> int-e: I updated the checked-out copy to the revision before the fetch, which I *think* will make it forget those commits after that.
15:29:43 <fizzie> Whoops, I'll need to run to a meeting now.
15:29:51 <fizzie> Don't break everything while I'm gone.
15:30:07 * ynoom 0's out everything's permissions 
15:30:42 <int-e> we've been there, it was a mess
15:30:53 <int-e> as I believe you already know
15:31:03 <ynoom> :p
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15:38:35 <moony_> `gcc
15:38:36 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gcc: not found
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15:42:26 <oren> https://i.redd.it/x9triplll1v11.jpg
15:42:31 <oren> sub stalinSort {my$x=$_[0];map$x>$_?():($x=$_),@_}
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15:43:57 <ais523> oren: I think that's more commonly called dropsort
15:44:16 <ais523> I implemented it in 5 bytes in two different languages recently: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61808/lossy-sorting-implement-dropsort/170910#170910
15:48:41 <int-e> > foldr (\x -> (x:) . filter (x <=)) [] [1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4]
15:48:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:48:44 <lambdabot>  [1,1,2,2,3,3,4]
15:48:55 -!- tromp has joined.
15:49:56 <int-e> > nubBy (>) [1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4]
15:49:58 <lambdabot>  [1,1,2,2,3,3,4]
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17:17:19 <oerjan> <int-e> TIL that ghc does fixity resolution after splicing template haskell expressions... how do I unsee that mess :) <-- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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18:57:18 <moony_> `gcc
18:57:19 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gcc: not found
18:57:22 * moony_ prods fizzie 
18:57:24 <moony_> no C compiler
18:57:34 <moony_> `cc
18:57:35 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/cc: 2: /hackenv/bin/cc: gcc: not found
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18:59:21 * moony_ doesn't recognize ineiros 
18:59:27 <moony_> `relcome ineiros 
18:59:28 <HackEso> ​ineiros: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
18:59:31 <moony_> just in case :P
19:02:21 <fizzie> They've been lurking here for ages.
19:02:29 <fizzie> But of course there's no wrong use of relcome.
19:04:56 <fizzie> `` gcc --version
19:04:57 <HackEso> gcc (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1) 6.3.0 20170516 \ Copyright (C) 2016 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
19:05:43 <moony_> `` ls tmp
19:05:43 <HackEso> paste \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ UnicodeData.txt
19:06:04 <moony_> `` cd tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06; perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --make-install --prefix ~/bin/rakudo
19:06:21 <moony_> will it time out? No-body knows until up to 2 minutes from now
19:06:34 <HackEso> No output.
19:06:47 <moony_> `` ls bin/rakudo
19:06:48 <HackEso> ls: cannot access 'bin/rakudo': No such file or directory
19:06:53 <moony_> ..mm?
19:07:09 <moony_> `` ls 
19:07:09 <HackEso> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
19:07:14 <moony_> `` ls tmp
19:07:15 <HackEso> paste \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ UnicodeData.txt
19:07:21 <moony_> `` echo ~
19:07:22 <HackEso> ​/tmp
19:07:32 <moony_> :p
19:07:40 <moony_> `` cd tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06; perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --make-install --prefix /bin/rakudo
19:08:01 <moony_> `? gcc
19:08:06 <HackEso> gcc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:08:10 <HackEso> No output.
19:08:11 <moony_> `? C
19:08:12 <HackEso> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
19:08:20 <moony_> `` ls /bin/rakudo
19:08:21 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '/bin/rakudo': No such file or directory
19:08:28 <moony_> `` ls tmp
19:08:29 <HackEso> paste \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ UnicodeData.txt
19:08:33 * moony_ is confused
19:08:40 * moony_ sighs
19:08:46 * moony_ moves to PM
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19:10:09 <zzo38> ``` sqlite3 -version
19:10:10 <HackEso> bash: sqlite3: command not found
19:10:26 <zzo38> You should add the latest version of SQLite into HackEso, I think.
19:10:50 <zzo38> (It should be easy to install, since it is only one file.)
19:11:51 <zzo38> (You should also put gcc, which seem to be missing, but probably should be on)
19:11:59 <moony_> zzo38: gcc was added
19:12:01 <moony_> `gcc
19:12:02 <HackEso> ​[01m[Kgcc:[m[K [01;31m[Kfatal error: [m[Kno input files \ compilation terminated.
19:12:46 <moony_> `perl6
19:12:47 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl6: not found
19:12:49 * moony_ sighs
19:13:03 <shachaf> What a difference an underscore makes.
19:14:34 <zzo38> OK, it work, good
19:15:50 <fizzie> moony_: If the Debian package rakudo (2016.12-1) is good enough for your purposes, I could install that from apt. This is Debian stable, though, so it's a little old.
19:16:03 <fizzie> `` sqlite3 --version
19:16:05 <HackEso> 3.16.2 2017-01-06 16:32:41 a65a62893ca8319e89e48b8a38cf8a59c69a8209
19:16:18 <zzo38> That is a old version of SQLite.
19:16:31 <moony_> fizzie: i don't think perl 6 can be installed the way i'm trying to do. Either that or i'm fucking it up horribly. You mind doing it? https://perl6.org/downloads/. Also, latest perl6 is generally best
19:16:33 <zzo38> The latest version is 3.25.2
19:17:00 <moony_> (Seriously, old perl 6 is slow haha)
19:19:42 <moony_> https://nxadm.github.io/rakudo-pkg/ is also an option, it provides more up to date prebuilt binaries
19:21:40 <fizzie> I can give building it a go, but if it doesn't go cleanly, I'm not going to spend time poking at it.
19:22:03 <moony_> mk
19:22:19 <moony_> rakudo-pkg shuld be up to date tho
19:22:35 <moony_> so it'll work, i just forgot about it. (Can't do it myself tho, it has to be added to your package repo list)
19:36:37 <moony_> fizzie: did it work, or am i being impatient
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19:38:20 <wob_jonas> ``` /bin/cat bin/insanetemp
19:38:23 <HackEso> ​#!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | dc -e "1k0 1?*9*5/32+p"
19:38:23 <wob_jonas> ``` /bin/cat bin/ctof
19:38:26 <HackEso> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $c=0+$ARGV[0]; printf"%.2f°C = %.2f°F",$c,$c*9/5+32;
19:38:26 <wob_jonas> ``` /bin/cat bin/ftoc
19:38:28 <HackEso> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $f=0+$ARGV[0]; printf"%.2f°F = %.2f°C",$f,($f-32)*5/9;
19:38:38 <fizzie> Runs out of memory while building.
19:38:38 <fizzie> Won't have time for more right now, at work.
19:38:57 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I added ftoc and ctof
19:39:04 <wob_jonas> `ctof 20
19:39:05 <HackEso> 20.00°C = 68.00°F
19:39:10 <wob_jonas> `ftoc 20 50
19:39:10 <HackEso> 20.00°F = -6.67°C
19:39:14 <wob_jonas> `ftoc 50
19:39:15 <HackEso> 50.00°F = 10.00°C
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19:42:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: xkcd still posts every monday, wednesday, and friday, it just usually posts very late in those days, whereas years ago it used to post early
19:42:23 <wob_jonas> also, the comics got mostly pretty boring, so who cares
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19:46:43 <wob_jonas> "ynoom: x to extract / c to create, f to use a file as the tarball" (and two more lines of tar help) => I'd add that if you're running tar as root, then (--no-same-permissions --no-same-owner) stops tar from trying to restore owner and mode; and that (--no-recursion --null -T "$listfile") lets you explicitly give a list of files to compress, nul-te
19:46:43 <wob_jonas> rminated.
19:46:57 <wob_jonas> I've used options other than those, but the rest are pretty crazy
19:48:07 <wob_jonas> also t instead of x to print filenames, tv to print filenames and attributes in ls format
19:48:43 <wob_jonas> I tried to install 7za onto HackEgo once, but failed
19:48:58 <moony_> I'll compile a copy of perl6 for HackEso directly myself then
19:49:01 <wob_jonas> I wanted it for fetching an archive and decompressing it
19:49:23 <wob_jonas> oh, and I used the -C option often
19:49:25 <zzo38> I used the options x c t --ignore-failed-read --numeric-owner -S (the last three only for making backups, though)
19:49:50 <moony_> hm
19:49:53 <moony_> `fetch https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases/download/v2018.10/rakudo-pkg-Debian9_2018.10-01_amd64.deb
19:49:57 <HackEso> 2018-10-29 19:49:56 URL:https://github-production-release-asset-2e65be.s3.amazonaws.com/66966577/4a6af880-db93-11e8-8126-0d480a815d0c?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWNJYAX4CSVEH53A%2F20181029%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20181029T194954Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=f654365ac26c786cb4b276e3f5ecc201f59fbbac96b64868bb2c302578cb4b0d&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&actor_id=0&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20file
19:50:03 <wob_jonas> to cd before reading files to add or writing extracted files, but after opening the archive given for the -f argument
19:50:06 <moony_> fizzie: That should work, actually. Try installing that. 
19:52:52 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I see
19:57:04 <wob_jonas> zzo38: do you compress the tarball then?
19:57:19 <zzo38> Yes, I did then compress it, and store the compressed file on a DVD.
19:58:19 <zzo38> (That is, for the backups)
19:58:45 <zzo38> And actually for the backups I used three DVDs, one for /var, one for /home, and one for everything else.
20:06:02 <zzo38> What do you suggest for setting up my own NNTP server for Unusenet?
20:06:20 <wob_jonas> I've no idea, I never used usenet.
20:06:38 <wob_jonas> Like, here I am on IRC, but usenet is alien past technology to me.
20:06:58 <moony_> wob_jonas: google has a public usenet interface built into google+
20:07:23 <wob_jonas> moony_: the same google+ that they're discontinuing about now?
20:07:29 <moony_> any usenet url, for example rec.games
20:07:31 <moony_> err
20:07:33 <moony_> not google+
20:07:35 <moony_> google groups
20:07:47 <wob_jonas> yeah, that makes more sense
20:08:30 <moony_> esoteric stuff might hide out somewhere in comp.*
20:08:52 <wob_jonas> moony_: and there are other web mirrors, and some two-way mailing list gateways too I think
20:09:21 <wob_jonas> I've used those, I guess, just not usenet directly
20:10:24 <zzo38> NNTP also is not Y2K compliant. Correcting the protocol is easy enough to do, although I don't know if it needs to deal with non-Y2K-compliant clients somehow. Maybe, if the server is only Unusenet and not Usenet, since Unusenet was invented after AD 2000, and it is still early in the century, it may be unimportant to do that.
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20:13:34 <zzo38> It could treat two digit years as being after NNTP was invented, so that existing clients would work, I guess. Maybe some clients might improperly specify "118" for the year, but it is easily enough to deal with that too
20:14:38 <wob_jonas> what if people have copied archives of pre-usenet messages to usenet with the original date?
20:15:27 <zzo38> The "Date" MIME header is Y2K compliant, although date ranges in the NNTP protocol aren't.
20:15:38 <zzo38> So, I think it isn't relevant.
20:15:45 <wob_jonas> ah
20:19:45 <zzo38> Is there NNTP server software that uses a SQLite database? Should I write such a software?
20:23:16 <zzo38> Will you set up a NNTP server at esolangs.org?
20:30:02 <fizzie> I don't know. I have a feeling the audience might be a little limited. The web forum never got any traffic to speak of, and the mailing list died too.
20:30:22 <fizzie> I used to run Leafnode at home. I think I might also have experimented with INN, though of course not connected to Usenet.
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20:31:53 <zzo38> What did you do with INN?
20:32:38 <oren> I always get confused between the acronyms ICYMI and IASIP
20:33:41 <fizzie> zzo38: If I remember right, I hosted a set of groups for a group of friends. I don't remember what they were *about*, though.
20:33:51 <fizzie> I think it might've been for a fake standardization organization? 
20:34:31 <wob_jonas> zzo38: just to make sure, in M:tG you haven't downloaded the oracle database from the New Gatherer or Scryfall or anywhere else yet, right?
20:35:11 <zzo38> wob_jonas: That is correct, although I might do some time, maybe.
20:35:18 <zzo38> (I have downloaded all of the rules though)
20:35:19 <wob_jonas> yeah, me too
20:35:52 <fizzie> Yeah, I think we called it IOCTA, but I don't remember what it stood for. Grepping through old logs finds just one line (from 2003) where I mention that I don't remember what it stands for.
20:36:51 <zzo38> fizzie: Unusenet is a way to define standardized hierarchies and enables mirroring of non-Usenet newsgroups.
20:37:21 <fizzie> Well, the IOCTA newsgroups (if that's what I used INN for) are long defunct, unfortunately.
20:38:00 <zzo38> They were probably compliant with neither Usenet nor Unusenet anyways, I think?
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20:38:24 <fizzie> Yes, very likely.
20:39:12 <wob_jonas> I think I'll have to try to download their data even if I don't process them, just so I have an archive of the current state for reference.
20:39:25 <zzo38> Yes, that may be good
20:39:34 <fizzie> My former university had a relatively lively non-Usenet (and non-Unusenet) newsgroup hierarchy, but I think those have been turned down.
20:48:52 <wob_jonas> zzo38: argh! New Gatherer is terrible. they still can't make their software handle flip/split/transform/meld cards properly. Even if I download just the whole list of c. 190 pages with 100 cards per pages in the standard format, then it probably won't tell which cards transform to what, it only shows faces.
20:49:17 <wob_jonas> The individual card pages do tell, but I don't want to download all 19000 of those.
20:50:02 <wob_jonas> So that data will have to be reconstructed after the fact, hoping that it will be very rare that the name or transform pairing of a card changes.
20:50:28 <wob_jonas> There's a lot of heuristics you can use to check, but still.
20:51:05 <wob_jonas> I'll try download anyway, but I'll have to check scryfall later too.
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21:02:38 <zzo38> If they do somehow change the name, the multiverse ID number still should be same, hopefully
21:03:19 <zzo38> (Although there will be a multiverse ID number for each printing of the card)
21:04:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no, the multiverse ID number seems to be adjacent
21:04:21 <wob_jonas> oh, you mean if they change the name of the card?
21:04:33 <wob_jonas> dunno, I wouldn't rely on that, since they can scrub that by simply making a New New Oracle
21:04:44 <wob_jonas> the card names are more stable than their fucking websites
21:04:50 <wob_jonas> they only changed names like three times
21:04:57 <wob_jonas> and their oracle list twice
21:05:52 <zzo38> Yes, if they change the name, the multiverse ID number probably won't change I expect. If they do change it, it might no longer be called "multiverse ID", since I think it was based on software previously called Multiverse but they changed it, so if they change the ID numbers they will change that too I guess (but of course I do not actually know)
21:06:28 <wob_jonas> the name changes were, let's see, all cards with Æ recently, Ærathi Berserker before written history, and I can't think of any other but there might be one
21:06:56 <wob_jonas> there were probably changes for how they displayed flip/split cards, and the visible name in the Oracle may have changed at that point
21:08:00 <zzo38> (Changing the ID numbers would also break many links on other webpages)
21:08:24 <wob_jonas> um so? it's not like Wizards cares about that
21:08:38 <wob_jonas> they took off an entire fucking discussion forum that was full of useful M:tG stuff
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21:11:41 <zzo38> Yes, but I still expect if they do change it, the old links will link to an error message rather than the wrong card.
21:12:09 <wob_jonas> sure
21:14:08 <wob_jonas> hmm... I'll have to check the last page before and after the download to make sure that they haven't added any new cards during my download
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21:20:17 <rdococ> experimenting with hypothetical reified "memory addresses", in the form of "memory" objects that you can write to, access the value at and "add" "offsets" in the form of other objects to
21:21:24 <rdococ> e.g. "v" is a unique "memory", "v ← expr" assigns the value of the expression to "v", and "$v" reads the value at that memory
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21:28:29 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I'm starting a download of those c. 190 pages of New Gatherer now. I won't do Scryfall today.
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21:30:29 <wob_jonas> I'll try to do some basic parsing, just to reduce the data, but I won't do any complicated processing like identifying errors or messing with split/flip/transform/meld cards
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22:37:47 <moony> fizzie, did you try the dpkg? (Sorry for consistently bothering you)
23:07:53 <shachaf> `olist 1145
23:07:54 <HackEso> olist 1145: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
23:16:31 <Sgeo> tyoony
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23:33:11 <moony> Sgeo, ty for what?
23:33:12 <moony> `perl6
23:33:12 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl6: not found
23:33:12 <moony> `perl6 --version
23:33:13 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl6: not found
23:33:45 <Sgeo> moony, I apparently misread shachaf's line as coming from you
23:33:48 <Sgeo> tyachaf
23:33:53 <moony> lol
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23:56:02 <wob_jonas> zzo38: oh great. so the New Gatherer html output starts with '<?xml ' but is not in fact valid XML. I'll have to use a HTML parser.
23:56:09 <wob_jonas> why did I even believe them?
23:58:15 <wob_jonas> good thing I know how to use an HTML parser, I've done it several times