←2018-09-24 2018-09-25 2018-09-26→ ↑2018 ↑all
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03:32:02 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> Everyone in Europe (except for Iceland, Turkey, Belarus, Russia), don't forget, time zone offset change is on the coming weekend. <-- [citation needed] or you're off by a month.
03:32:54 <oerjan> @tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> Everyone in Europe (except for Iceland, Turkey, Belarus, Russia), don't forget, time zone offset change is on the coming weekend. <-- [citation needed] or you're off by a month.
03:32:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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10:55:38 <esowiki> [[Chipish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57760&oldid=57724 * Galaxtone * (+12050) Put everything in tables, changes a few things, added timers and such.
11:04:07 <esowiki> [[Chipish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57761&oldid=57760 * Galaxtone * (+1) /* Timers */
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11:13:58 <\oren\> Stupid bjam, why did we need a fourth build system intertwined with perl scripts, shell scripts, and makefiles
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11:14:16 <\oren\> and it's the worst one of all
11:14:31 <\oren\> at least I can read perl
11:14:52 <esowiki> [[Chipish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57762&oldid=57761 * Galaxtone * (+1664) Added code tags for monospacing
11:15:03 <Taneb> How else are you going to build Forth programs
11:15:04 <\oren\> bjam has a confusing syntax and no documentation worth a damn
11:15:39 <int-e> Taneb: Is brute Forth an option?
11:16:02 <\oren\> Taneb: I would assume you'd build Forth programs with some sort of Reverse Polish Shell
11:16:09 <\oren\> repsh
11:16:32 <\oren\> no wait, porsh
11:17:14 <\oren\> rf- rm
11:17:37 <\oren\> / rf- rm sudo
11:19:33 <int-e> : ; { : | : } ( ) :
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13:01:03 <wob_jonas> oerjan: darn, you're right. no timezone offset change this weekend yet. Taneb: sorry, false alarm.
13:01:25 <wob_jonas> I'll have to make my own fucking calendar webpage, one that shows both month numbers and month names. I hate how I always have to convert them in my head.
13:02:11 <wob_jonas> Why can't everyone use month numbers in proper numerals, rather than all these stupid multilingual month names and month name abbreviations (and sometimes roman numerals for month numbers)
13:02:21 <wob_jonas> @messages
13:02:48 <wob_jonas> And why can't I just have a calendar that displays both the month number and the name without me having to make one?
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13:19:37 <Taneb> wob_jonas: oh, that's a relief
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13:56:12 <doesthiswork> It's not that complicated, for many months the number is right there in the name
13:58:32 <Taneb> doesthiswork: there's certainly *a* number right there in the name
14:02:49 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: It gets worse because I sometimes see month names in various different languages, plus month abbreviations, plus day of week names, plus day of week abbreviations, and there's multiple languages of each and sometimes there's more than one per language and sometimes they clash or the localization databases have long-standing errors tha
14:02:49 <wob_jonas> t you can't fix without upgrading libc and upgrading libc is very hard
14:02:54 <wob_jonas> so it all gets complicated
14:03:34 <wob_jonas> It would be so much simpler if everyone just stick to numbers and proper formatting
14:03:44 <wob_jonas> but we're slowly winning space in that area
14:05:10 <wob_jonas> the old generation with their fancy 12 hour clocks with IIII on them is disappearing, people use mobile phones that show proper %H:%M time
14:05:35 <int-e> "proper"
14:05:45 <doesthiswork> Vendémiaire is a name full of such rich associations that it would be a shame to swap it out for a plain boring number
14:06:41 <wob_jonas> sure, we still have the asctime function and funny defaults for the unix date and ls commands, which we can't replace for historical compatibility reasons, but we can just avoid using those defaults
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14:11:29 <wob_jonas> basically, ancient unix ran on one machine with one timezone and the clock covered only a few years, so they set the default format to like Tuesday, September 25 16:09:31 and then it was too late to change that part when they added a year number, the format for asctime became like Tuesday, September 25 16:09:31 2018 (with the date number space-padd
14:11:29 <wob_jonas> ed but the weekday name and month name variable length),
14:13:27 <wob_jonas> and then they thought they should add timezones too, and the format became like September 25 16:09:31 CEDT 2018 with a timezone abbreviation that is ambiguous,
14:14:50 <wob_jonas> the next step is adding an unambiguous timezone identifier, a DST flag, a timezone offset in case the receiving end has an older timezone database, and subsecond precision, but thrown them in at random places in those pieces of data so you get a jumbled mess
14:15:06 <\oren\> or we could just use metric time
14:16:25 <wob_jonas> September (Europe/Paris) 25 DST=1 16:09:31 CEDT 2018 .332922367 +0200
14:16:49 <wob_jonas> wait, I forgot the Tuesday
14:16:54 <\oren\> specifically, replace the day with the hectokilosecond and the week with the megasecond
14:17:04 <wob_jonas> Tuesday, September (Europe/Paris) 25 DST=1 16:09:31 CEDT 2018 .332922367 +0200
14:18:36 <wob_jonas> and all HTTP clients and mail/news readers and FTP clients have to read this sort of format, and while at least there's only one format used for HTTP, there's multiple used in mail/news headers
14:19:20 <wob_jonas> and the HTTP cache control all depends on stupid historical things like that
14:20:11 <wob_jonas> but when we don't have to be compatible with all protocols, but design new ones, then we can use sane formats at least
14:20:17 <\oren\> for protocols they should just be useing integers
14:20:31 <wob_jonas> \oren\: sure, newer protocols are saner
14:20:59 <wob_jonas> HTTP and mail/news are just old formats, and it's not worth to change this now, because everyone already implements that one format for HTTP so it would be just a new compatibility problem
14:22:03 <wob_jonas> `datei
14:22:04 <wob_jonas> `dateu
14:22:04 <HackEso> 2018-09-25 14:22:03.942171888+00:00
14:22:05 <HackEso> 2018-09-25 14:22:05.012416556+00:00
14:22:09 <wob_jonas> ^ these use saner formats
14:22:49 <wob_jonas> they don't have to be compatible with HTTP, they're for me to read
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14:51:59 <\oren\> Bowsette is a stupid name, at least call her Princess Bowser or something
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15:44:52 <\oren\> The main feature of svn over git is sequential commit numbers
15:45:46 <\oren\> there should be a way for git to renumber the commits to sequential numbers when they get sent to the server
15:46:12 <wob_jonas> \oren\: could you just use hg for that?
15:47:34 <wob_jonas> of course, the numbers are only consistent within one repository, just like in svn, and sometimes you clone or mirror a repository with modifications like throwing away some commits or unifying two repositories or whatever, and then the sequence numbers are rearranged
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15:51:13 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it's just much more convenient in email for example to say "I caused the build to fail in revision 25502" than "I caused the build to fail starting at j24hwtfbbq"
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15:52:46 <wob_jonas> \oren\: sure, and if you have a central server agreed on and that commit you're talking about is there, then that works and you can send such emails. that's why hg provides both sequential numbers and hash digests.
15:53:25 <wob_jonas> so if you have a centeral hg repository where you never change history, that works, after you commit into that.
15:55:12 <wob_jonas> note though that in that it might technically still need a branch name (unless you never commit to the same branch twice), and in git or svn or hg if you have a branch of which you never rewrite the history, you can use a timestamp to identify the commit, and all three have an easy way to find the latest commit before a date and a branch name
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16:00:30 <wob_jonas> ok, sadly it's not _that_ easy
16:04:42 <wob_jonas> if you use (-r "{2018-09-25T12:55:49}") as an argumen to svn for such a date, it will find the previous commit, because the commit is actually slightly after that time, at 2018-09-25T10:55:48.763811Z, but you mostly see it rounded down and in _your_ timezone.
16:05:01 <wob_jonas> So dates aren't such a good way to identify commits in emails after all
16:05:05 <wob_jonas> darn
16:06:14 <wob_jonas> if you say -r "{2018-09-25T10:55:48.763811Z}" that actually finds that commit, not the previous commit, interestingly
16:06:42 <wob_jonas> but giving a full precision date or manually rounding up is not very convenient for an email
16:07:35 <wob_jonas> in any case, you could probably implement some sort of sequential numbers in git that remain unchanged unless you rewrite the history
16:09:22 <wob_jonas> And just not committing anything that causes the build to fail isn't enough, because then you still have to write emails like "You caused the build to fail starting at <some version control thing>" when somebody else does that
16:09:55 <wob_jonas> Obviously you'd be more specific in the email, telling what kind of failure you get
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16:42:06 <esowiki> [[\ () /]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57763&oldid=57759 * Ais523 * (+31) {{DISPLAYTITLE}}
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17:51:50 <esowiki> [[BF-RLE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57764&oldid=57751 * ZM * (+14) /* Other bases */ stylistic improvement: grammar + ambiguous phrasing
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19:52:19 <\oren\> Princess Bowser "The Usurper" Koopanid, of the Mushroom Kingdom
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←2018-09-24 2018-09-25 2018-09-26→ ↑2018 ↑all