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00:11:49 <zzo38> The truncate optimization in SQLite does not work with virtual tables. In Free Hero Mesh I have a annihilate() function to delete all objects efficiently, which can be used in many cases internally, although a SQL statement such as DELETE FROM "OBJECTS"; cannot know to call annihilate(), and will have to delete each object individually instead.
00:11:51 <esowiki> [[Chaingate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56485&oldid=51177 * Ais523 * (+1255) /* Computational class */ relationship to TAFMl4 (I hadn't consciously realised until now how similar the languages are; the reference to TAFM in the see also makes me think I might have done so unconsciously, though)
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00:34:09 <esowiki> [[Fusion Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56486&oldid=56482 * Ais523 * (+61) /* Computational class */ clarify
00:41:40 <oerjan> my first few attempts at writing som fusion tag programs have all entered infinite loops without ever getting past the first ^
00:42:12 <oerjan> i suppose an empty queue error is also possible.
00:48:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:Fusion Tag]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56487 * Oerjan * (+408) /* Initialization */ new section
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02:50:34 <zzo38> I have been told they would add unbounded signed integers into JavaScript soon. I think that is good. They say you can't mix types of operands except with comparison operators, but I think that you should be allowed to mix types with the << and >> operators and only the type of the left operand is used as the type of the result value. What do you think?
02:51:44 <zzo38> (This would also help with many esolangs which use unbounded integers; some use signed and some use unsigned, but it doesn't matter)
02:52:08 <zzo38> (It can also help to make a proper SQLite binding, because then each SQL type has a corresponding type in JavaScript.)
02:55:15 <zzo38> I looked at Fusion Tag now, I try to think of it now
02:55:44 <Hooloovo0> yeah, <<, >> should be able to have smaller types as right-operands
02:56:29 <Hooloovo0> but I'd be careful of adding features to languages specifically to make them work well with another language like SQL
02:57:14 <Hooloovo0> JS is already off the deep end in terms of being pretty complicated and /weird/ and not being able to go back for legacy reasons
02:57:22 <zzo38> That isn't specifically the point; it is just one advantage I thought of.
03:01:03 <zzo38> One thing I wanted is 64-bit integers, and other thing is a goto command. This unbounded integers is a suitable substitute for 64-bit integers, though.
03:02:04 <zzo38> However, goto can be implemented with a preprocessor, at least.
03:02:11 <Hooloovo0> 64-bit ints should be standard for most things nowadays anyway
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03:36:34 <oerjan> zzo38: if my case analysis is correct, two 0s is not enough for a fusion tag program to get past the first ^ command.
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03:41:12 <oerjan> maybe i'll just paste that
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03:50:38 <esowiki> [[Talk:Fusion Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56488&oldid=56487 * Oerjan * (+675) /* Initialization */ Some analysis
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04:21:32 <zzo38> Another variant of a 2-tag system could be that instead of using only the first number and discarding the second one, you combine the first two numbers using some operation such as addition, bitwise OR, bitwise XOR, or subtraction. (Other than subtraction, these are commutative and I don't know how the commutativity affects the computational class of it)
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06:34:53 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56489&oldid=56478 * A * (+229) /* ZOMBIE */
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06:35:31 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56490&oldid=56489 * A * (+1) /* Brainfuck */
06:38:52 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56491&oldid=56490 * A * (-13) /* Cheating Versions */
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06:57:56 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56492&oldid=56491 * A * (-1) /* pbrain */
07:00:00 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56493&oldid=56492 * A * (-2) /* pbrain */
07:02:54 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56494&oldid=56493 * A * (+34) /* pbrain */
07:04:24 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56495&oldid=56494 * A * (+2) /* pbrain */
07:04:37 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56496&oldid=56495 * A * (-36) /* pbrain */
07:07:25 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56497&oldid=56496 * A * (+2) /* pbrain */
07:07:51 <Hooloovo0> can someone tell pbrain to use the damn edit button?
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09:41:23 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56498 * A * (+1826) Created page with "'''This=That''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:A]], and is made up entirely of variables. Each line is just a case-sensitive variable name, followed by <co..."
09:42:49 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56499&oldid=56498 * A * (+0)
09:45:17 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56500&oldid=56499 * A * (+1)
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10:06:31 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56501&oldid=56500 * A * (-9)
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10:20:21 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56502&oldid=56501 * A * (-1)
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11:15:32 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56503&oldid=56502 * A * (+1236) /* Example programs */
11:16:11 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56504&oldid=56503 * A * (+0) /* Endless Square Numbers Program */
11:17:55 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56505&oldid=56504 * A * (-40) /* Example programs */
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11:20:30 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56506&oldid=56505 * A * (-2) /* Endless Bottles of Beer Program */
11:26:28 <esowiki> [[~This=That]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56507&oldid=56506 * A * (+1) /* Cat Program (Until QUIT is inputted) */
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11:41:49 <esowiki> [[Var=Bar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56508 * A * (+1574) Created page with "'''Var=Bar''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:A]], and is made up entirely of variables. Each line is just a case-sensitive variable name, followed by <code..."
11:42:01 <esowiki> [[Var=Bar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56509&oldid=56508 * A * (+5) /* Example */
11:44:07 <esowiki> [[Var=Bar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56510&oldid=56509 * A * (-8)
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12:56:43 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56511&oldid=56497 * A * (+55) /* Urn */
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13:22:31 <esowiki> [[Far]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56512 * GibsonGeorge * (+2836) Create
13:24:17 <esowiki> [[Far]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56513&oldid=56512 * GibsonGeorge * (+122) Add link to specification
13:26:51 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56514&oldid=56483 * GibsonGeorge * (+10) Add link to Far
13:30:44 <esowiki> [[Turth-machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56515 * A * (+806) Created page with "'''Turth-machine''' is a simple pseudo-code programming language. ==Syntax== {| class="wikitable" |- | Ask for ''variable'' || input a variable |- | If the ''Something'' 'Con..."
13:32:01 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56516&oldid=56511 * A * (+135) /* Trigger */
13:32:08 <esowiki> [[Turth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56517&oldid=56515 * A * (-1)
13:32:38 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56518&oldid=56516 * A * (-1) /* Turth-machine */
13:32:41 <esowiki> [[Turth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56519&oldid=56517 * A * (-1)
13:35:50 <esowiki> [[Fake-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56520&oldid=56407 * A * (-40)
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13:52:06 <esowiki> [[Code pointer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56521 * A * (+279) Created page with "==Syntax== {| class="wikitable" |- | { || Enter loop if code pointer#2 does not reach the end of program. |- | . || Print what the code pointer#2 is pointing. |- | > || move c..."
13:53:11 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56522&oldid=54905 * A * (+30) /* Cheating Quines */
14:03:19 <esowiki> [[Code pointer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56523&oldid=56521 * A * (+133) /* Syntax */
14:04:17 <esowiki> [[Code pointer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56524&oldid=56523 * A * (+39) /* Quine */
14:04:35 <esowiki> [[Code pointer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56525&oldid=56524 * A * (+12) /* Syntax */
14:06:31 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56526&oldid=56522 * A * (+30) /* Capuirequiem */
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15:14:55 <esowiki> [[Annoying Alice 2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56527&oldid=55651 * BoutonIA * (+1) Fixed an error due to a missing space
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19:46:25 <wob_jonas> the four days of vacation were great. what did I miss here?
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19:50:26 <zzo38> I forgot, but you can look at the logs
19:51:38 <zzo38> Do you know any mahjong playing?
19:51:53 <wob_jonas> yeah. I've grepped the logs, and ais523 didn't answer my two questions about the omnitell writeup yet
19:52:16 <wob_jonas> uh, a friend tried to teach some mahjong to me once, but I gave up quickly. it's just not my style of game.
19:52:46 <zzo38> There are many different kind of mahjong game; I know the Japanese game
19:54:47 <wob_jonas> I've no clue which mahjong game this was. I didn't even get as far as knowing all the rules. I only ever played a few matches.
19:56:23 <wob_jonas> but it seemed like a version of rummy played with a different set of cards and with a more complicated scoring system
19:58:07 <zzo38> Yes, it is kind of like that (although that is true with nearly any mahjong game and is not specific to the Japanese game).
19:58:10 <wob_jonas> there are four players taking turns, each player always has a set of stones (which is what they call cards) whose number is fixed to 13 or something except you draw one at the start of your turn and discard one at its end, and your stones can be in your hand (hidden) or put down in combinations that you later can't easily modify (but you can add to
19:58:48 <wob_jonas> and there are some special rules about how you can end the game by emptying your hand
19:59:57 <wob_jonas> and if you put a combination of cards on the table, then other players can see it but they can never modify it, and players can sometimes use the stone that another player discards
20:00:58 <wob_jonas> it's similar to rummy in most of this this, except that rummy is played with a double deck of poker cards and the number of players isn't fixed to 4
20:01:18 <wob_jonas> but then rummy also has different variations
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20:03:19 <zzo38> All of that is true of any kind of mahjong (except "there are some special rules about how you can end the game by emptying your hand"; I am not sure what that means)
20:04:15 <zzo38> One feature specific to the Japanese mahjong is that one tile in the wall is flipped so that you can see it; if you have the number that is one more than that one and of the same suit, you earn extra points.
20:05:40 <wob_jonas> zzo38: that means three things: firstly you aren't always allowed to empty your hand, there are conditions depending on what combinations you'd have on the table for whether that's allowed or not; secondly I think there are options for whether you discard a stone in the turn you do that or not and one of those options is rare; and there's some spec
20:05:40 <wob_jonas> ial rule about using another player's discard differently if you're emptying your hand
20:07:53 <zzo38> If "emptying your hand" means you expose all of your tiles because you win, that is true in any mahjong game. You usually have to make a regular hand, there are also some irregular hands, and you never discard a stone on the turn you win (if self-drawn; if you win by someone's discard, you take that one and it completes your hand; a complete hand is always 14 tiles plus the number of four of a kind)
20:08:56 <wob_jonas> and yes, by emptying your hand I mean you put all your stones on the battlefield from your hand and end the game
20:11:07 <zzo38> In some versions there are other conditions that you need to win too, such as in Japanese game you need to have a yaku as well as forming a regular hand (irregular hands automatically have a yaku)
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20:25:16 <esowiki> [[Talk:Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56528&oldid=55166 * Galaxtone * (+25) /* Uhm, "program", It looks like a "programming language" to me */
20:27:10 <esowiki> [[The Insane Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56529&oldid=55481 * Galaxtone * (+30)
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22:15:23 <imode> https://ptpb.pw/MzvC/text well I made a quarter of an RPN calculator with unary...
22:26:11 <imode> I just don't see anything else you can do with string rewrite systems. maybe it's because I'm unoriginal, but it seems like you just end up reducing things to machine-like semantics anyway.
22:30:37 <imode> over traditional TMs, they just buy you extra context and the opportunity for concurrency/parallelism.
22:30:44 <imode> and nondeterminism.
22:31:28 <imode> but they don't buy you expressivity outside of that. there are no alternative ways of expressing things like the above other than machine descriptons.
22:33:33 <imode> I guess it's because I'm specifying semantics, rather than syntax.
22:34:13 <imode> rather, I'm _reducing_ semantics to rewrite operations, instead of solely specifying valid syntactical forms.
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22:45:51 <imode> I think the term used for what I'm doing would be operational semantics.
22:51:58 <imode> thing is I can't wrap my head around graph rewriting without some kind of variable binding scheme. you can't do graph rewriting without specifying subgraphs, so how do you specify the "shape" of a given part of the graph without resorting to variables representing nodes or edges.
22:52:46 <imode> maybe kolmogorov machines or their ilk provide some light on that but I didn't immediately see how to reduce general graph pattern matching + rewriting to them.
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