< 1528935877 490980 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1528937298 660813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.183.142.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1528937803 203078 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1528937944 661741 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1528940679 293372 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric > 1528943299 584658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GetWhen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55709 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+5370) 10created page about a horrible weirdlang > 1528943330 312549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:HereToAnnoy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55710&oldid=55648 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+41) 10blah blah blah horrible weirdlang < 1528943501 3695 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528943804 623540 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1528943804 698219 :zemhill___!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1528944228 812080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55711&oldid=55682 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+111) 10/* Examples */ > 1528944257 791718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55712&oldid=55711 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+2) 10/* Turing-Completeness */ < 1528944735 725418 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1528945089 593155 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1528945120 391393 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1528945251 594881 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric > 1528946074 651998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55713&oldid=55712 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+99) 10/* Commands */ > 1528948210 857806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55714&oldid=55713 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+2) 10/* Commands */ > 1528948224 619373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55715&oldid=55714 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+1) 10/* Commands */ > 1528948793 808410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55716&oldid=55715 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+4) 10/* Commands */ < 1528949401 408830 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1528951347 5384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55717&oldid=54867 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+32) 10/* Survey */ > 1528951419 542000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55718&oldid=55717 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+29) 10/* Survey */ < 1528951444 196850 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mruioccrkpfkjloh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1528951983 434596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55719 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+1366) 10Created page with "[[$]] ==Explanation== There is only 1 command, $. A place only has numbers. If anything is assigned to cell number 0, print the ASCII value out. Like: 2313132 A number has "+..." > 1528952013 926909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55720&oldid=55707 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+8) 10 > 1528952046 108140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55721&oldid=55718 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+53) 10/* Survey */ > 1528952090 121220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55722&oldid=55720 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+17) 10/* F */ > 1528952104 727121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55723&oldid=55722 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (-17) 10/* F */ > 1528954144 6760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55724&oldid=55688 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+169) 10/* Iamcalledbob's attempt */ < 1528954911 301662 :fractal_!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1528955278 414448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55725&oldid=55702 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+31) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1528955315 946197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55726&oldid=55725 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (-1) 10/* Turing-completeness */ < 1528958244 293529 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528958762 167366 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xnnqzjvyiahitefu JOIN :#esoteric > 1528960230 139014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55727 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+157) 10Created page with "I discovered that the Befunge program 9482350042>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@ 's output turns out to be 105260548 . My password is :12345678 My username is : Iamcalledbob" > 1528960262 580359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55728&oldid=55727 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+10) 10 > 1528960394 780854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55729&oldid=55724 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (-1) 10/* Iamcalledbob's attempt */ > 1528960752 558653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55730&oldid=55728 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+1035) 10 > 1528960783 684877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55731&oldid=55730 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+12) 10 > 1528960874 368414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55732&oldid=55731 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+92) 10 > 1528960985 143653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55733&oldid=55732 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+137) 10 < 1528961107 545271 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1528961271 255654 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1528961360 760277 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1528961440 292721 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1528961449 692332 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1528961482 21162 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric > 1528961492 239333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Iamcalledbob14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55734&oldid=55733 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+146) 10 < 1528961562 680119 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1528961965 36774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55735 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+394) 10Created page with "==(== ===( is a deprivative of $ that only works when the current user is dead.=== ===This makes it impossible to use.=== ==Computability(Halting problem)== ===If the user is..." > 1528962022 26020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55736&oldid=55686 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+69) 10 < 1528966410 385544 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xnnqzjvyiahitefu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1528968823 876514 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55737&oldid=53509 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-19) 10Using Wayback for this purpose seems slightly wasteful or misguided or something > 1528969487 359322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55738 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+436) 10Created page with "==ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE== ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Alphabet numbers !! controls | 1 || input a string and push it onto the stack |- | 2 || clear the next..." > 1528969551 34563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55739&oldid=55723 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+36) 10/* O */ > 1528969589 360310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55740&oldid=55738 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+28) 10 > 1528969641 557386 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55741&oldid=55740 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+11) 10 > 1528969672 406707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55742&oldid=55741 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+17) 10/* Hello,world */ > 1528969708 87956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55743&oldid=55742 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+11) 10/* Hello,world */ > 1528970430 196204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainpocalypse14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55744 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+2211) 10Some thoughts. > 1528970646 606962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55745&oldid=55743 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+221) 10/* Commands */ < 1528971179 669951 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.183.142.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1528972151 632335 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1528972457 956321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subtractpocalypse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55746&oldid=55515 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+1951) 10Added Sub to MM translation example. > 1528973400 338609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category talk:201814]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55747 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+252) 10There appears to be a eird technical issue with this category page? > 1528973555 888168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072D-BCT14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55748 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+2149) 10Created page with "==2D-BCT== I want to design a language that includes all the purposes of an esolang. ==BCT== A '''BCT program''' is any finite string of bits (commands), executed as follows:..." > 1528973582 979721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric programming language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55749&oldid=55700 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+4) 10/* Brevity */ > 1528973801 148802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric programming language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55750&oldid=55749 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+0) 10/* Brevity */ > 1528973814 604215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric programming language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55751&oldid=55750 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+0) 10/* Brevity */ > 1528973831 722715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric programming language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55752&oldid=55751 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (-4) 10/* Brevity */ < 1528973860 789469 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FEELING CHICKEN < 1528975753 767525 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric > 1528976358 538150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Expload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55753&oldid=34973 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1852) 10Thoughts from re-reading this article < 1528976877 646177 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric > 1528977558 658103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Waterfall Model14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55754&oldid=54312 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-2) 10The article includes an implementation, so, move from Unimplemented to Implemented category > 1528979154 151816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55755&oldid=55754 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+181) 10Add summary that hopefully makes it clear what a zeroing trigger actually does. > 1528979839 568372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brianfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55756 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+2051) 10Created page with "==Brianfuck== ==Brainfuck Info== Brainfuck operates on an array of memory cells, also referred to as the [[tape]], each initially set to zero. There is a [[pointer]], initiall..." > 1528979862 403009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brianfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55757&oldid=55756 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+0) 10/* In all of the questions, Brianfuck has only 1 byte, but Flogscript has a lot. */ > 1528979905 994534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brianfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55758&oldid=55757 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+31) 10 > 1528980011 671979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55759&oldid=54320 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+548) 10Wondering if I've missed something re the declared undefined behaviour < 1528980184 999800 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528980198 147253 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys, I have two questions < 1528980201 937512 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one actual, and one esoteric < 1528980469 816886 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows, the taskbar buttons used to have a different background color for minimized windows than for restored windows. but apparently for windows 10, or at least this windows 10 machine, that isn't the case. < 1528980591 272735 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very annoying, and I don't know how to change it. I've set the option "settings / personalization / colors / more options / show accent color on the following surfaces / start, taskbar, and action center", which recolors the taskbar buttons from black to colored, but that doesn't fix this. < 1528980664 39627 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some of the taskbar buttons have a slightly lighter backround, but I can't figure out what that means > 1528980733 595644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55760&oldid=55759 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+738) 10 > 1528980887 227607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55761&oldid=55760 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+238) 10 < 1528981231 699600 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric > 1528981410 306426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55762&oldid=55736 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+0) 10/* General languages */ < 1528981732 243269 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:e056:7a64:499a:b38f JOIN :#esoteric < 1528981857 416251 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1528981974 252543 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1528982394 292149 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528982895 213040 :MDead!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1528983011 365112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Equipage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55763&oldid=55625 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+3997) 10Import some description from its README (which I wrote and which is also in the public domain anyway.) Remove 'stub' macro. < 1528983021 270669 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1528983029 935188 :MDead!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1528983078 18289 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" in "our" world, strings are terms built exclusively from unary function symbols (and one constant for the empty string)." => exactly, in my world too. strings are inconvenient, and for a long time I didn't understand why everyone in mathematics didn't just work with tree-like terms, < 1528983094 57365 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the string representation being mostly irrelevant and a job for computer stuff. but later I realized why: < 1528983162 767884 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the strings themselves for bootstrapping of Godel numbering if you want to prove that there are undecidable *arithmetic* statements using the natural numbers and addition and multiplication and equality and first-order logic < 1528983227 464535 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even that way (and even if you enable to power operation), translating loops to first-order statements on arithmetic is the hard part, and looping on a string you can just barely manage and stay in delta-zero or whatever that thing is, < 1528983236 13248 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looping on a tree would be impossible directly. < 1528983258 971874 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... I don't know the details, I don't have them swapped in my head right now, but the point is, < 1528983268 4899 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a good reason why sometimes you have to consider strings, < 1528983279 64802 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though normally you prefer a term to mean tree-like stuff < 1528983644 865539 :xificurC!c3628305@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.98.131.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528983739 718256 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-002-203-077-053.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1528983779 298386 :xificurC!c3628305@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.98.131.5 PART :#esoteric > 1528983842 934531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PLEASE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55764 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+1103) 10Created page with "[[$]] ==Explanation== There is only 1 command, assign. A place only has numbers. If anything is assigned to cell number 0, print the ASCII value out. Like: 2313132 A number h..." > 1528983880 575761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PLEASE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55765&oldid=55764 5* 03Iamcalledbob 5* (+14) 10/* Turing-Completeness */ > 1528984131 400366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brianfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55766 5* 03ZM 5* (+276) 10Created page with "==Duplicate title== Small hint: when creating a page, it is unnecessary to include a header with the page name at the beginning as this is included automatically by MediaWiki..." > 1528984377 486214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55767&oldid=55761 5* 03B jonas 5* (+664) 10/* Waterclocks over the reals */ < 1528984581 291402 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1528984758 247727 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Equipage => I think this one is probably Turing-complete. You can probably translate Underload to this. < 1528984779 516891 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait no < 1528984785 178969 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was thinking of won't work < 1528984804 107937 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some tricky way to build quoted functions < 1528984851 607636 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably with a number of fixed functions on the top of the stack all the time < 1528984864 253370 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how you'd bootstrap some trees or something < 1528984887 84810 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528984949 72619 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, I think I have an idea for that one, but I'd have to reduce a very small subset of Consumer Society into it < 1528984971 805741 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could only simulate a turing machine with one tape that way < 1528984976 675824 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see how I could do better than that < 1528985011 786911 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should instead try a negative proof < 1528985029 628835 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving that there are certain interesting things that the language can't do but that you expect such a language to do < 1528985450 75421 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1528985789 274112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55768&oldid=55767 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+674) 10 < 1528986234 699313 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528986612 488639 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1528987247 392093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55769&oldid=55768 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+224) 10 > 1528987592 544916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55770&oldid=55721 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10/* Survey */ typo > 1528987872 922428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55771&oldid=55769 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+85) 10parenthetical addendum < 1528987883 345219 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no second question by the way, I solved it by searching the internet for the right terms < 1528987896 881333 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't solved the first one, about the windows taskbar > 1528987909 167266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55772&oldid=55771 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-4) 10 > 1528988063 572603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55773&oldid=55772 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-1) 10 > 1528988392 935759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55774&oldid=55773 5* 03B jonas 5* (+470) 10/* Waterclocks over the reals */ > 1528988443 129010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55775&oldid=55774 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+235) 10 > 1528988614 83564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:201814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55776&oldid=53928 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10Dummy edit to bump cache > 1528988703 547587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category talk:201814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55777&oldid=55747 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+346) 10Known bug < 1528990461 583041 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just made a string rewriting interpreter that supports comments. going to have it support variable delimiters too. < 1528990532 933899 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: do you mean an interpreter that interprets a string-rewriting language, or an interpreter implemented in a string-rewriting language? < 1528990544 42379 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter that interprets a string rewriting language. < 1528990558 880838 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's easier < 1528990562 997998 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is. :P < 1528990614 850478 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface of my spare phone is so counter-intuitive, I already hate it, and I've barely used it < 1528990637 572023 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look for a better phone < 1528990648 394167 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments are just lines that don't contain the delimiter, and I'm thinking of having the top two lines define the delimiter for each of the rules and the end of the rules. < 1528990839 115183 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1528990981 813635 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they even do proper user interface testing for this, where a good software tester guy uses this phone in practice for weeks and writes down everything that should be changed? < 1528990996 203805 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't make phones the way they used to anymore < 1528991334 414031 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1528991468 127622 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you need some tricky way to build quoted functions <-- indeed, the functions seem to be mostly of the form "push X to", but no way to iterate it. < 1528991547 790367 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to stack > 1528991569 321375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainpocalypse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55778&oldid=55706 5* 03Ais523 5* (+271) 10/* Commands and syntax */ explain halt behaviour explicitly < 1528991606 803113 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I'll be able to construct a proof. I have an idea. but I have to get back to that later, I'm busy with other stuff now. < 1528991612 634756 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but having all of them permanently in a know position on the stack might get around it like you said. < 1528991616 260250 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*known < 1528991742 696677 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and pick can pick from bottom, that helps < 1528991793 649432 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so you can put your fixed functions there instead of at the top < 1528992477 450866 :Elronnd\srn!elronnd@slashem.me QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1528992708 778709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainpocalypse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55779&oldid=55744 5* 03Ais523 5* (+3164) 10r to Keymaker < 1528992831 223006 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it can pick from the bottom of the stack for negative values? that makes it way too easy < 1528992832 920957 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1528992838 477562 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice that < 1528992858 90705 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a solution for picking from the top only though < 1528992888 176088 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not really sure it works > 1528992898 547925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category talk:201814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55780&oldid=55777 5* 03Ais523 5* (+355) 10https vs. http < 1528992919 629210 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1528992972 753216 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the instructions -%\ aren't even necessary < 1528993006 473578 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need !:.~ for everything, and 1+ to make numbers for ~ < 1528993022 406792 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and $ is useful too, because we often need to discard < 1528993039 241362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's an ugly model to work with < 1528993059 167556 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll be able to do more than a tape < 1528993144 500255 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1528993493 765614 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55781&oldid=55775 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1997) 10/* Undefined behavior */ explain > 1528993772 706673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55782&oldid=55781 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+501) 10 > 1528993818 519329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55783&oldid=55782 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1044) 10/* Waterclocks over the reals */ (ec) replies > 1528994433 625458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chronofuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55784 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (+1427) 10created the page < 1528994530 931656 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/UZpd/python https://ptpb.pw/g_93/text < 1528994544 621552 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter and a sample program. not quite thue, but good enough. > 1528994545 747541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chronofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55785&oldid=55784 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (+87) 10 < 1528994780 869330 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next thing to do is work on getting a minimal state machine working, then I can translate line-numbers to states. < 1528994867 217521 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, I want certain rules to apply when we're in a certain state. the problem is that I want to take any given set of rules (within a reasonable range) and be able to either prefix or postfix or do some simple modification to them to make them run sequentially based on conditions. < 1528994949 498232 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd like to translate this whole thing to a queue problem so I don't have to continually start over in my pattern search, but I'm having a hard time getting it to halt, considering the result for "no pattern matched" is to dequeue and requeue a symbol, rather than fail. < 1528994971 17742 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I can do it by just using a marker on the queue, but the signalling involved gets weird. < 1528995653 703770 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1528997517 707494 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1528998366 787373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55786&oldid=55555 5* 03Truttle1 5* (+55) 10Added AsciiDots < 1528998398 537011 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:e056:7a64:499a:b38f QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1528998443 58268 :Kai_Bruneji!~kvirc@62.33.194.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528998713 223488 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1528998755 802910 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528998877 711080 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1528999117 362190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PUBERTY14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55787&oldid=55654 5* 03Izumariu 5* (+453) 10Added truth machine example and added wiki links to the examples < 1528999300 711555 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1528999331 732319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds > 1528999855 197644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Neg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55788&oldid=53755 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+48) 10fsm i hate all of my languages < 1529000718 263281 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1529001670 140922 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 JOIN :#esoteric > 1529001732 897385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GetWhen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55789&oldid=55709 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+1239) 10Added line number system (creating superpositions, yay). Hopefully this makes the language just a bit esoteric from the when function. < 1529001749 2878 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DARN IT! < 1529001755 962741 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this phone is so annoying I have to rant about it < 1529001793 929620 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still experimenting with it, so there's a lot I don't know, but there's a lot of annoying things I found already that I must rant to you now < 1529001847 345458 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd tell you what phone it is, but I'm not sure, because I forgot and the fucking type number isn't written anywhere on it, not even on the label under the battery, nor in the UI < 1529001868 694773 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a Nokia non-smartphone but I don't know the number < 1529001874 11207 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway > 1529001909 856598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55790&oldid=55739 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+14) 10/* G */ < 1529001944 40767 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, I still haven't discovered a safe button sequence without timeouts that takes me to the home screen from most states, including when the phone is locked. < 1529001995 38117 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the R button seems safe anywhere (except during a call that it hangs up), and it's a good start, but it can take you to one of *four* states, one of which decay into a fifth state by timeout, and I'm not sure how to proceed from that < 1529002010 357718 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to make a table of the state automaton to figure this one out < 1529002017 685372 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too complicated to solve in my head < 1529002038 315689 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and one of the four states decays into one other of the fourth state by timeout) < 1529002063 73810 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a short sequence, but prefer one that includes optional timeouts between most button presses in it, so I can take a pause during in most places < 1529002096 164866 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't take a pause anywhere, and for a good reason, becuase from the locked state you can't get into the unlocked state with single presses with pauses between, which is good design) < 1529002107 583684 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd like a sequence with no mandatory timeouts < 1529002152 852044 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not obvious, because one of the states is the home screen, which has almost every button bound to do something, only the P button goes back to the home screen < 1529002166 405439 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1529002168 931486 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the P button < 1529002174 580116 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the home screen, EVERY button does something < 1529002186 445884 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, goes to some other state < 1529002210 118249 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily something harmful, but goes to some state that I have to consider < 1529002223 428773 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely need a state map < 1529002241 159811 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll get back to this when I mapped all the states, but for now, other stuff < 1529002253 184866 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. the music player < 1529002271 191613 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected to find a functional music player in this phone. the description when I bought said it had one. < 1529002295 681364 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can play the mp3s from my SD card, but the media player is so messed up it's completely unusable for me < 1529002297 832303 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you why < 1529002317 926205 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst part is that it won't play albums in order < 1529002357 145943 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it apparently ignores the album and track number metadata in the file entirely, which is a good thing because some of the files I have on it aren't encoded by me and don't have it filled correctly < 1529002379 75279 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead it lists music by directory, in some tree order on the file system < 1529002380 670397 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good < 1529002385 219028 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that puts albums together < 1529002402 423258 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THE ORDER OF THE TRACKS IN A DIRECTORY seems to follow no logic I can discover < 1529002417 240535 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some directories it's in order, in some there are ordered parts, in some it's completely jumbled < 1529002423 983556 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I have good filenames < 1529002452 956809 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some directories, the filenames actually only differ in three digits, and you'd just have to sort by those. there's no way to mess up sorting in that directory if you sort by filename. < 1529002501 297193 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files in that directory show up in the correct order if I view them in the file browser of the phone, but I can't play music from there: actually you sort of can, but it only plays one file and won't continue to other files in any way if you do that < 1529002515 418462 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the music player app, the files in that directory show up in some apparently random order < 1529002533 985391 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also not the track number, because I created these files myself and filled the track number and other metadata well < 1529002549 692757 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't create playlists or reorder the playlist or anything as far as I can tell < 1529002561 474230 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's just no absolutely no way to play a fucking album in order < 1529002608 530513 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other problem is that you can't easily play music in the background, while doing something else < 1529002666 327195 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sort of almost can, but it messes up the home screen, hijacking seven of the important buttons as media player controls, which makes the phone almost impossible to use < 1529002747 681596 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I haven't even considered those states in the automaton in my head, darn it. that complicates the states even more. < 1529002779 935042 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's at least two more states that the R key can take you, I think < 1529002786 132904 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. SMS < 1529002805 896891 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played much with this, but there's one thing I discovered < 1529002923 634884 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start to write an SMS, accidentally put a single digit in the To field (which is supposed to have the phone number top send to), then in the Content field, you accidentally press G or E, which would normally send the message, then the phone tries to send the message and fails because the recipient is invalid. so far this sounds ok. < 1529002960 613239 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when the message is failed to be sent, it goes into a libo state where I can view the first pageful or delete, but as far as I can see, there's no way to continue editing or view the rest of the text or anything. < 1529003012 903295 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the messages application main screen has a list of conversations (grouped by phone number) with all sorts mixed (sent, draft, incoming), < 1529003068 586457 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you choose one of those, you get into this horrible bubble view where you see each SMS (whether sent, incoming, or draft) in the conversation as this speech bubble thing, and when you select one, you have to press E to view its full text and metadata, < 1529003101 776260 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for messages that were failed to send, E resends the message, which fails again, and there's nothing else you can do to recover from that state other then delete the message. < 1529003146 999041 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, one wrong button press in the To field (you obviously don't enter a valid recipient there, because then you can accidentally send the message early) and then one wrong buttonn press while typing the message, and you're screwed. > 1529003218 239160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GetWhen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55791&oldid=55789 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+78) 10typos & minor tweaks < 1529003219 760282 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if you actually leave the To field empty, then when you accidentally try to send (with E or G in the content field while composing), it actually just shows an error message and lets you continue editing < 1529003246 679062 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mind you, that error message takes your cursor to the To field which you'll then accidentally fill with a digit < 1529003262 121362 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not even hard to carelessly enter the limbo state < 1529003268 872662 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you < 1529003302 49971 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these people even know how ui testing works? just give the phone to a power user for two weeks and he'll tell you half of this < 1529003332 521513 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more but I haven't discovered everything yet < 1529003342 748681 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are just the highlights < 1529003494 172351 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand why the type number isn't written anywhere, not even under the battery as it normally is with sane phones < 1529003499 143051 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't want people to write bad reviews < 1529003509 128465 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't really if you can't tell what phone it is you're reviewing < 1529003535 94680 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's a Nokia 216, but I can't swear on that. I've bought it 7 months ago just to have a spare and thrown away the box.) > 1529003577 206731 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55792&oldid=55786 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+504) 10added GetWhen < 1529003587 233157 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1529003589 406902 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1529003590 55148 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1529003598 675669 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. time setting < 1529003689 975389 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the menu for setting the current time and date, there's an entry saying "Auto-update time". if you turn it on, it hides all the other settings in that menu, so you can't set the clock. I don't know why. < 1529003718 930597 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's trying to get the time from the internet, but I don't have an internet connection enabled or something, and it doesn't actually get the correct time without or anything. < 1529003756 11349 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, it even hides the option for 12 hour versus 24 hour and the time zone, I have no idea why. < 1529003759 524885 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I turn that option off. < 1529003768 67010 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to set the time < 1529003772 31755 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu entries are: < 1529003776 847438 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Auto-update time < 1529003781 170805 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. time zone < 1529003783 504891 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. time < 1529003788 695807 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. time format (24 hour) < 1529003792 751501 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 date < 1529003802 45562 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6. show date and time < 1529003807 977271 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 and 5 works, I can set the time and date < 1529003883 660556 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is strange, it might be working or it might not: it displays some list of timezones, including "GMT +1 Paris", "GMT +2 Cairo", "GMT +2 Athens" etc < 1529003896 242696 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowhere is the daylight saving mentioned < 1529003910 614409 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't tell anywhere that I'm supposed to be in +0200 now if I set to "GMT +1 Paris" < 1529003917 644065 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tell UTC time anywhere < 1529003927 55635 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what timezone it uses and whether it will adjust DST < 1529003957 281007 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it even has all timezones (with dst settings) that it should, but has redundant timezones < 1529004077 37894 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it does have all timezones < 1529004082 91814 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with really strange names I can't recognize < 1529004147 114730 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Reykyavik timezone (always +0000) is called "GMT Casablanca", the London timezone is "GMT London", the Paris timezone is "GMT +1 Paris" and "GMT +1 Rome" and GMT +1 Warsaw" and "GMT +1 Berlin" (aren't those all the same now?) < 1529004220 998401 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the Bucharest timezone is "GMT +2 Helsinki", that's fine < 1529004341 986922 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's "GMT +2 Cairo" < 1529004357 987848 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I think it has all big timezones, but it doesn't seem to have a way to turn off DST changing for some offsets < 1529004381 445325 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only three -0500 base offset timezones, and all three have DST < 1529004467 211562 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it actually doesn't have the timezone for -0500 no DST, which is used in Jamaica < 1529004474 542074 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I want to travel there, but strange timezone list < 1529004543 492275 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the one in Bolivia, which has a DST. the three -5 timezones listed are "GMT -5 Washington D.C.", "GMT -5 Toronto", "GMT -5 New York", < 1529004602 128895 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are all three the same timezones, the New York one < 1529004613 874961 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if this phone even does DST adjustments < 1529004624 462532 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it doesn't, then why is there even a "time zone" setting? < 1529004631 844704 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't display the time zone or UTC time anywhere, < 1529004649 352035 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since my SD card uses the FAT file system, by custom it stores only local times < 1529004659 860150 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have no idea how it will behave at the DST change date < 1529004890 225527 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time setting is annoying by the way, because you can only set the clock to a specific minute, but if you wait a minute on that screen in this phone, it darkens the screen and the first button press won't accept the time setting, so you're screwed if you don't keep pressing buttons < 1529004898 813148 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not specific to this phone, it happens on many devices < 1529004937 760111 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just met it too many times because the phone is still new and I've been removing the battery several times and have to set the clock every time after it < 1529004965 413753 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if the battery is removed even for a second, then the internal clock no longer keep the time, it stops < 1529004969 770876 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you < 1529004985 490884 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zeb2rj73gye3ft.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1529004986 630577 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that one is hard to fix < 1529004995 20339 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrically < 1529005249 491170 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zeb2rj73gye3ft.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1529005642 404466 :choochter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-zzvopyntvtiamrde QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1529005653 272737 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. on the plus side, this one charges from that type of USB connector that most phones do these days < 1529005669 692688 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can get rid of one more special charger type < 1529005674 91470 :choochter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-oxadrewxjmuobnzd JOIN :#esoteric < 1529005685 506853 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my previous phone used a cylindrical charger plug < 1529005694 867933 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I only have four types of chargers: < 1529005724 987405 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normal USB stuff for this phone and the bluetooth microphone (and probably future small devices too, like a better phone), < 1529005734 163063 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other USB stuff for my camera < 1529005739 738501 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know the names of these) < 1529005754 399639 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a special one for the electric toothbrush and a special one for the shaver < 1529005767 314629 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the latter two have serious waterproofing requirements < 1529005782 943190 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the both allow charging while wet < 1529005805 854192 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't use normal plugs < 1529006799 725899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1529007327 994479 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1529007334 771880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1529007353 296093 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ranted about the UI of my new phone, and I haven't even discovered most of it. you can logread if you want, but it's a rant, hard to read < 1529007356 335431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any feedback on my M:tG stuff so far? < 1529007365 695647 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, did you give me a link? < 1529007369 110150 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read what you've written < 1529007379 325356 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I supposed to have found the link to the M:tG stuff? < 1529007380 512012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, let me try to find it in the logs so that I can relink it < 1529007392 142452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or I tried to send it but it didn't go through for some reason < 1529007394 399864 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could link it from the esowiki somewhere at least < 1529007407 251320 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was only in irc, I might have missed it < 1529007422 657245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wednesday, 13 June 2018] [14:36:28 BST] wob_jonas: nethack4.org/pastebin/b31dfab1-de3c-4c61-8402-07738b794487-maindeck.html.txt nethack4.org/pastebin/b31dfab1-de3c-4c61-8402-07738b794487-setup.html.txt (these are temporary links that won't stay up that long, and these are not the final versions of the files) < 1529007432 448265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to be linking to temporary versions on the esowiki < 1529007441 95932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a work in progress and I don't want people advertising it everywhere until it's done < 1529007492 650612 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529007532 902512 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have missed that, I didn't read the logs of #esoteric carefully in a few days because I was very busy < 1529007539 454960 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still am, but whatever < 1529007840 214614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1529007852 474388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1529007895 643493 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I will look at these two < 1529007988 329271 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it means that you can't pull this off in a tournament (where the opponent is unlikely to have the deck you need or to cooperate in setting the gamestate up), which in turn means that you can't mess around with the Tournament Rules (which contain things like infinite loop handling, and thus are very relevant for this sort of work)." < 1529007997 491453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK for a bit < 1529008020 116726 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite like this game sentence in the introduction. I know what you mean but only because of earlier context from our discussions. < 1529008033 853653 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that these are two different things that this statement doesn't explain. < 1529008078 824959 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. you can't pull this off in a tournament. ok, but at this point (and for very long in the text) as a reader I won't believe that there's any such setup that you can pull off in a tournament, so it's not obvious what contrast you're talking here, < 1529008088 795205 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you're trying to explain, but you'r conflating it with < 1529008096 534487 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. you can't mess around with the Tournament Rules < 1529008107 278809 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's a reasonable implication or equivalence < 1529008130 460122 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the the Tournament rules anywhere < 1529008151 924228 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a reasonable base even for unsanctioned tournaments, for which you just ignore the sections about DCI number and whatever < 1529008170 485117 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a good framework so you might use some of its rules even at home or something < 1529008184 481644 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be relevant or not, but that's a separate question < 1529008189 982390 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't put them in the same sentence < 1529008311 375410 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mention "you can't pull this off in a tournament", but that's a big deal that's normally obvious, you can normally never pull off these sorts of things in a tournament < 1529008331 235164 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to challenge that assumption, but you have to write that in a clear positive sentence at first, not in this long mess < 1529008349 402723 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not together with the Tournament rules < 1529008452 51007 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, our only changes are to the sideboard: our sixty maindeck cards are exactly the same." wow < 1529008473 212772 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I've heard of this project, I think that wasn't yet the case. you had a few customizations in the main deck < 1529008567 319032 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH I'm stuck in stack mode, with too many things I start and can't finish anything < 1529008577 70296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1529008579 181450 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm stuck reading this interesting M:tG document < 1529008600 114555 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The core of Omni-Tell" this heading section is nice well written < 1529008613 25966 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "About Omni-Tell" heading section too < 1529008687 296959 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1529008727 857104 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The maindeck has no way to generate mana except via using its lands, and needs three mana [...] This requires a minimum of two lands" < 1529008758 727209 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is absolutely true and the next part explains it, but totally alien for me, because in formats other than legacy and vintage, lands that produce two mana early just aren't a thing < 1529008765 232253 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzfaeydycvwqvrlc JOIN :#esoteric < 1529008772 863138 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are storage lands, but you won't use them early in a practical deck < 1529008794 845530 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a double-colourless source like Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors" clears it up right away though < 1529008799 237157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529008816 648171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lands that produce {2} mostly only show up in Legacy combo decks < 1529008835 108826 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are aiming for such a double-take, you might want to mention double lands before that sentence < 1529008837 841917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and the urzatron but it's a special case < 1529008854 604826 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but I'm thinking of early turns < 1529008867 399267 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :urzatron and storage lands are fine, but if you only have lands, you won't pull that off early < 1529008880 288031 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sentence seems to imply that this is in the early turns < 1529008913 950882 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you won't have early Llanowar Elves or Arbor Elves or any of that stuff I use < 1529008942 997241 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor one of the few one mana cost artifacts that give a third mana in second turn < 1529008948 855660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Modern players out there are probably doing a double-take upon seeing a basic Island :-) < 1529008948 873827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1529008960 738281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1529009057 756300 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, I play basic lands, and I think there are some standard formats with no lands with Island or Plains etc type other than those, but some lands or spells that search for a basic land type (or search for a basic land), in which case people include just a few in their deck < 1529009068 476710 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or doesn't standard sometimes work like that? < 1529009084 489190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :effects that search for basics specifically are rare < 1529009094 589206 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in tournaments < 1529009095 772054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :effects that search for basic land types are common but there are plenty of good nonbasic lands which have the types < 1529009112 306509 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, "search for a Forest" or "search for a Plains" < 1529009134 292838 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few good ones, but are they reprinted often enough to always be in the standard? < 1529009134 483702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds a Temple Garden
< 1529009153 90907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Standard you often have to look for basics < 1529009163 149679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the last time there were good land searching effects, there were good-enough dual lands too < 1529009170 164881 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only like six nonbasic cycles like that I think, not counting the Limited ones which will never be reprinted, and a few are bad for tournaments < 1529009187 983898 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so there aren't always good land searching effects? < 1529009206 537386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a bit of a mess, because there were lots of three-color cards (with an ally+two enemy pairs among the three colors), but the basic-land-type lands were ally-colored < 1529009220 874099 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for a tournament that is? < 1529009231 658505 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps no good ones if you don't play green? < 1529009253 976426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may have been intended to make them hard to use together, but what actually happened is that people ended up playing four colors because it worked better than three, so the top decks ended up largely identical, just playing all the best cards in four colors < 1529009266 16784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think land /searching/ is at all common in Standard at the moment < 1529009279 587789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the cards that get land out of your deck just look at the top few cards < 1529009295 418933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's technically a search < 1529009367 794742 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1529009373 605645 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1529009387 891643 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not familiar with standard or modern enough, so I never noticed that < 1529009400 494819 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there used to be good land searchers in some formats < 1529009425 94829 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought there'd be at least slightly less broken land searchers later < 1529009425 368237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Rampant Growth < 1529009426 154675 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rampant Growth \ 1G \ Sorcery \ Search your library for a basic land card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library. \ MI-C, TE-C, 6E-C, 7E-C, 8ED-C, 9ED-C, 10E-C, M10-C, HOP-C, M12-C, MM2-C, C15-C, C16-C, DDS-C < 1529009430 16814 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a stupid assumption < 1529009438 752118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rampant Growth is currently considered too good for Standard < 1529009440 800692 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why I said non-green deck < 1529009451 335337 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is good, and there's some weaker ones < 1529009453 88570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's allowed a power level boost for being green < 1529009477 558623 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Terramorphic Expanse < 1529009478 322381 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terramorphic Expanse \ Land \ {T}, Sacrifice Terramorphic Expanse: Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library. \ TSP-C, 10E-C, M10-C, HOP-C, ARC-C, M11-C, CMD-C, PC2-C, MMA-C, C13-C, C14-C, C15-C, C16-C, PCA-C, CMA-C, C17-C, DDE-C, DDH-C, DDN-C, H09-C < 1529009488 194944 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while that one is too bad for tournament? < 1529009489 576085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Evolving Wilds < 1529009490 362826 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolving Wilds \ Land \ {T}, Sacrifice Evolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library. \ ROE-C, CMD-C, DKA-C, M13-C, C13-C, M15-C, C14-C, DTK-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, BFZ-C, C15-C, CN2-C, C16-C, AKH-C, CMA-C, C17-C, DDH-C, DDK-C, DDN-C, DDO-C, DDP-C < 1529009491 505066 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they keep reprinting that < 1529009502 364609 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529009504 635744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I knew Evolving Wilds had been ridiculously reprinted < 1529009512 421500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Terramorphic too, though < 1529009529 35609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're used occasionally when the alternatives are really bad < 1529009535 365595 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, both < 1529009536 595713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not considered good cards < 1529009556 830025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what are the most recent cards in the bot? < 1529009560 941999 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what's the difference between those two? < 1529009563 968708 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1529009565 15344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one < 1529009581 963352 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are their current oracle text (not in the bot) different? < 1529009642 699156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, that is bizarre < 1529009666 794952 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MaGo! why did you ever leave? < 1529009667 1489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one has a full stop where the other has a comma, with grammar adjusted to fit < 1529009676 598073 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's the head rules manager now? I'm cursing them < 1529009691 471995 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they generally look for this sort of thing < 1529009707 799154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eli Shiffrin < 1529009713 670922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I've spelled that correctly?) < 1529009716 471140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was Matt Tabak for ages < 1529009727 626626 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, them < 1529009740 52279 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily they're doing good job in the background so most of the time I don't have to think of their names < 1529009807 702044 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, end tangent < 1529009824 247624 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so land searching, Terramorphic is not good enough for tournament? < 1529009839 530025 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect it isn't good enough < 1529009910 868578 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the kitchen table, it's good enough only for a very few decks, and even then it's not a very good card, just an acceptable one.) < 1529009918 924565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough for most decks if it's in your opening hand, but it's too slow if you draw it later in the game < 1529009929 772587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, tapped lands generally are, I mean < 1529009934 340213 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529009948 84382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terramorphic in particular has the additional problem that you often don't know what color you'll be missing when you draw it early < 1529010101 224940 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play with Kodama's Reach in a big ramp and it's quite good, but only if I already have four or more green one-mana accelerators in the deck so you can almost always cast it in turn 2, and I really want a ramp, and this strategy only works in a close to mono-green deck. > 1529010109 669099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55793&oldid=55783 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+376) 10/* Undefined behavior */ < 1529010133 375148 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :green has a lot of good one-mana accelerators, both for kitchen table and for tournament < 1529010142 231070 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the tournament versions of course < 1529010176 653945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Veteran Explorer < 1529010177 333465 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veteran Explorer \ G \ Creature -- Human Soldier Scout \ 1/1 \ When Veteran Explorer dies, each player may search his or her library for up to two basic land cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then each player who searched his or her library this way shuffles it. \ WL-U, CMD-U, C16-U < 1529010190 15666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is apparently the only one-mana accelerator that's good enough for Legacy < 1529010216 406997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count Lotus Petal < 1529010219 576421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that costs zero < 1529010237 208116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…I assume Sol Ring is banned? otherwise I can't see why people wouldn't use it < 1529010277 384772 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Llawnowar Elves, Arbor Elves, Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, are cheap cards I have, and the first two are really good < 1529010284 807769 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, Sol Ring is reprinted cheap too now < 1529010286 985423 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about that < 1529010346 193867 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Springleaf Drum but it's limited, it only works second turn if you can play a one-mana creature, any why would you play a one-mana creature that doesn't produce mana in turn 2 in a ramp deck? < 1529010365 210648 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's too slow < 1529010389 23351 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Abundant Growth < 1529010389 677593 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abundant Growth \ G \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant land \ When Abundant Growth enters the battlefield, draw a card. \ Enchanted land has "{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." \ AVR-C, EMA-C < 1529010408 92654 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this is the new improved version, because the old ones were good only in some decks, and not really for early < 1529010414 807091 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you almost always wanted the elves instead < 1529010436 147687 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zeb2rj73gye3ft.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1529010479 382534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that isn't ramp < 1529010481 142279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just fixing < 1529010511 164353 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1529010515 28660 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1529010691 279673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not 100% sure I've written about Omnitell correctly because I've never played it, but I have watched videos of other people playing it < 1529010702 146806 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zeb2rj73gye3ft.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1529010852 299945 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's the 3 or more variants of Llawnowar Elves, then Arbor Elves that I like but it only works for me because I do play lots of Forests in those decks, it won't work in tournament; then the Birds of Paradise which I think was tournament card but now rotated from standard; and off-color ones like Elves of Deep Shadow, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Noble H < 1529010852 364659 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ierarch, of which at least the last was used in tournaments I think < 1529010872 987455 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are green mana producers for playing in turn 1 and producing mana in turn 2 < 1529010880 48430 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every other turn < 1529010933 766146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbor Elves is frequently played in Standard when it's legal < 1529010944 815363 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529010948 203168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's played in Modern, too, but only in Elf tribal decks < 1529010951 165894 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the Llanowar Elves variants? < 1529010962 613842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are played too; Arbor Elf is slightly better though < 1529010969 845816 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're good for me, because they're fast and versatile, go in many different decks that have green < 1529010987 53538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have lots of green-producing non-Forests < 1529011024 499614 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is Arbor Elves good in Standard? oh right, you said they still have dual lands with land types < 1529011075 846486 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I play at least 12 basic lands among at least 22 lands in almost all constructed decks, but that's not what a trournament player would do < 1529011095 460015 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even in the kitchen table, I have played against many-colored decks with almost no basic lands < 1529011142 418385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :land hate is really bad at the moment, and has been for ages < 1529011168 978105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's basically no reason to play basics if you have an alternative < 1529011182 445718 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I do this because all the dual land card that often etb untapped are expensive, so I haven't bought most of them < 1529011182 528932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're trying to give the dual lands drawbacks instead but they're never large enough < 1529011203 265877 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few affordable ones now though, so I will buy when I return to M:tG, because they're versatile < 1529011214 718553 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still expensive, but they're versatile, go in many decks, so I'll probably buy some < 1529011238 984234 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm not limited to standard < 1529011280 584794 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc they recently printed one that etb untapped in multiplayer games, that seems almost like cheating < 1529011302 171541 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will print them < 1529011317 722708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Crumble to Dust < 1529011318 395286 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crumble to Dust \ 3R \ Sorcery \ Devoid (This card has no color.) \ Exile target nonbasic land. Search its controller's graveyard, hand, and library for any number of cards with the same name as that land and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library. \ BFZ-U < 1529011324 239258 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Battlebond < 1529011335 914554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only good anti-land card that's been Standard-legal any time recently, and I think it's rotated out < 1529011344 242746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not good enough to play except against decks that rely on a single powerful land < 1529011387 579977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that decks that are just playing nonbasic lands for fixing have nothing to worry about, the opponent doesn't have any viable ways to take advantage of that < 1529011394 878231 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bountiful Promenade etc < 1529011398 414336 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds too good to be true < 1529011405 808011 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they trying to break all non-trournament formats with that? < 1529011405 903607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1529011407 634405 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1529011407 921965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't the first though < 1529011411 11228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Command Tower < 1529011411 719075 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command Tower \ Land \ {T}: Add to your mana pool one mana of any color in your commander's color identity. \ CMD-C, C13-C, C15-C, C16-C, CMA-C, C17-C < 1529011454 142836 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but this is a full cycle of five so you'll have 8 in wedge 3 colored decks < 1529011461 180552 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1529011471 208100 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the ones they print for Modern have some moderation < 1529011471 319366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :command tower is basically a gold land with no drawback if you're playing Commander < 1529011480 341047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mana outside the color identity isn't useful anyway < 1529011489 130853 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not playing commander, but I am often playing multiplayer with four players < 1529011499 607407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529011507 85117 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can happen only in the very late game that there are only two players in play and the game hasn't ended < 1529011510 150848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this land is broken in format X" is still broken, though > 1529011513 883819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55794&oldid=55793 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+932) 10/* Waterclocks over the reals */ < 1529011518 443669 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point I don't care if my eighth land etb tapped < 1529011522 147334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name City of Ass < 1529011522 992840 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :City of Ass \ Land \ City of Ass comes into play tapped. \ {T}: Add one and one-half mana of any one color to your mana pool. \ UNH-R < 1529011528 513088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also completely broken :-( < 1529011539 405178 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have that sort of broken dual land for Modern or any recent Standard, right? < 1529011542 404136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even back when it made you mana burn for a half, it was broken < 1529011548 325447 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the Ravnica duals aren't that good < 1529011580 156631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most broken lands in Modern are the Khans fetchlands < 1529011647 756503 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, City of Ass is broken too, but... at least that has a silver border, and mentions half mana which you normally can only play with the strange un-rule that you can choose half numbers every time you have to choose a number, and that rule breaks the format even with only ordinary modern cards, eg. you can distribute half of deathtouch damage to < 1529011647 877709 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple blocked creatures < 1529011667 913169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I'm trying to remember a name of one of the cards in the cycle, and I keep remembering Zendikar fetchlands instead < 1529011680 622186 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even without any cards, the half numbers un-rules are brokenm < 1529011729 439161 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have been in every version of the rules I can remember, because all the versions of the combat damage rule had some exception at least for deathtouch, even if nothing else > 1529011791 900000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55795&oldid=55794 5* 03Ais523 5* (+487) 10/* Waterclocks over the reals */ computability < 1529011803 934899 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big a print will Battlebond have? it's not standard legal < 1529011821 617924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until people stop buying it, I think < 1529011824 438550 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if those rares will become cheap < 1529011833 121964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'll only print a fairly small quantity to begin with < 1529011836 554244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it depends on how successful it is < 1529011845 410348 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the market that is < 1529011857 874653 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most rare lands aren't, but this seems a special interest one < 1529011872 767811 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most good lands are expensive, which makes sense < 1529011918 40789 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I build mostly from cheap cards, and want to buy more cheap cards, < 1529011929 560763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eventually gives up and looks them up
< 1529011934 941787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name bloodstained mire < 1529011935 585338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloodstained Mire \ Land \ {T}, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Bloodstained Mire: Search your library for a Swamp or Mountain card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ ONS-R, KTK-R, EXP-M < 1529011937 199683 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1529011945 795938 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might buy some medium price dual lands or similar if they seem so versatile I can put them in many decks < 1529011951 751048 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I just use cheap lands for that too < 1529011967 256352 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fetchland < 1529011967 978020 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529011976 681597 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is good < 1529011999 852721 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in formats with decent lands with nonbasic types that is < 1529012010 236197 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nonbasic types/basic types/ < 1529012028 741903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good even if you're fetching basics < 1529012033 68216 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529012043 286104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, in Legacy, they're sometimes played even in monocolor decks < 1529012049 610872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the deck thinning + free shuffle < 1529012065 761419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is at least partly because most Legacy decks don't care about their opponent's life total) < 1529012084 119678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're trying to win quickly, winning from 12 and from 20 are approximately equally easy < 1529012090 588628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're playing Burn < 1529012100 805593 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what Terramorphic is good for too, and some more expensive (2 or 3 mana) green stuff, but it's only like one or two decks where I need the free shuffle < 1529012109 266032 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tournament deck needs that more < 1529012113 603352 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the deck thinning is useful too < 1529012131 851207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Terramorphic it's not free, it effectively costs {1} :-D < 1529012137 114758 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529012143 131139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's too much for a shuffle even if you aren't paying a card for it < 1529012144 582217 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the green spells cost mana too < 1529012170 505971 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or two or three mana up front, and you get back zero or one immediately < 1529012177 503931 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for searching a land < 1529012184 448279 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes still good enough < 1529012188 105500 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all decks < 1529012230 490725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're basically paying for three things: color fixing, ramp, and the shuffle < 1529012237 923462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cards that give only a subset of those effects have to be cheaper < 1529012260 171536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example, color fix + ramp + shuffle (all three) is Rampant Growth, which costs two mana and a card < 1529012267 322430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Rupture Spire < 1529012268 44923 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rupture Spire \ Land \ Rupture Spire enters the battlefield tapped. \ When Rupture Spire enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay {1}. \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. \ CON-C, CMD-C, PC2-C, C13-C, C16-C, PCA-C, CMA-C, DDH-C, H09-C < 1529012281 305065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perfect color fix through perfect turns costs an effective {2} < 1529012285 998408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*through future turns < 1529012299 932723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a "pick a color now" and a shuffle costs an effective {1}, that's Terramorphic < 1529012321 411004 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529012493 690200 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Modern have something like Krosan Wayfarer, which is "put a land card from your hand into play, right now" effect for {G} on a sorcery? < 1529012510 181997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did for a while < 1529012512 904438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Summer Bloom < 1529012513 560057 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer Bloom \ 1G \ Sorcery \ You may play up to three additional lands this turn. \ VI-U, P1-R, 6E-U, S99-R, 9ED-U < 1529012519 159628 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they have the same but the land tapped, but that's much weaker < 1529012520 236991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it ended up getting banned < 1529012530 891479 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1529012540 300940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably weaker versions of the same effect that are still legal < 1529012542 233906 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that helps with the fixing < 1529012553 540470 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Elvish Pioneer < 1529012554 276463 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elvish Pioneer \ G \ Creature -- Elf Druid \ 1/1 \ When Elvish Pioneer enters the battlefield, you may put a basic land card from your hand onto the battlefield tapped. \ ONS-C, 8ED-C < 1529012569 560859 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much weaker < 1529012571 962138 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't broken < 1529012581 601606 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's in modern < 1529012588 438699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 8th is in Modern < 1529012591 938121 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529012596 403644 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't such a broken effect < 1529012598 494401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer Bloom was abused with nonbasics though < 1529012598 722996 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "tapped" < 1529012609 923878 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Krosan Wayfarer doesn't say "tapped" < 1529012614 444462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, the "tapped" on Elvish Pioneer makes it stronger rather than weaker in that deck < 1529012615 827397 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Krosan Wayfarer < 1529012616 548296 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Krosan Wayfarer \ G \ Creature -- Human Druid \ 1/1 \ Sacrifice Krosan Wayfarer: You may put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield. \ JUD-C < 1529012622 620245 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1529012628 401004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Amulet of Vigor < 1529012629 162320 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amulet of Vigor \ 1 \ Artifact \ Whenever a permanent enters the battlefield tapped and under your control, untap it. \ WWK-R < 1529012629 306867 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want my land required tapped? < 1529012641 886009 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... what deck then? < 1529012646 980970 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnitell? < 1529012651 198865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that if you get multiple Amulet of Vigor triggers, you can tap the land in between… < 1529012657 556812 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1529012668 15075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deck was called Amulet Bloom (i.e. Amulet of Vigor and Summer Bloom) < 1529012669 415355 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's wierd < 1529012674 950374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it played them together with lands that bounce themselves < 1529012679 969972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Selesnya Sancturary < 1529012680 832350 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1529012686 595182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1529012700 463644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Dimir Aqueduct < 1529012701 154565 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dimir Aqueduct \ Land \ Dimir Aqueduct enters the battlefield tapped. \ When Dimir Aqueduct enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand. \ {T}: Add {U}{B} to your mana pool. \ RAV-C, CMD-C, PC2-C, MM2-U, C16-U, PCA-C, C17-U < 1529012717 910651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that (except green) < 1529012720 870831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1529012724 95510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Selesnya Sanctuary < 1529012724 729893 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selesnya Sanctuary \ Land \ Selesnya Sanctuary enters the battlefield tapped. \ When Selesnya Sanctuary enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand. \ {T}: Add {G}{W} to your mana pool. \ RAV-C, CMD-C, PC2-C, C13-C, MM2-U, C16-U, PCA-C, CMA-C, C17-C, DDG-C < 1529012726 310232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't spell < 1529012789 123931 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still not the same of course, because if I have Krosan Wayfarer, then I sometimes have to play it first turn if I don't have a Llanowar/etc, so I won't have a chance for an Amulet of Vigor yet, so Krosan Wayfarer is still better in eteranl I think < 1529012802 691459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so say you have Amulet of Vigor in play, you can play a Selesnya Sancturary, tap it for {G}{W} before it bounces itself, use that to cast Summer Bloom, then play the Selesnya Sancturary three more times < 1529012820 25584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you six mana on turn 2 (usually), which you can use to play Primeval Titan or some similar finisher < 1529012833 487933 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the rav common duals, I play those < 1529012838 782764 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are decent < 1529012859 119861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why they can't spell "sanctuary"
< 1529012865 795661 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reprinted enough, finally < 1529012876 395597 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1529012880 329178 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can't spell Sanctuary? < 1529012887 572543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, apparently < 1529012890 308696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep adding an extra r < 1529012890 728994 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1529012933 137879 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name summer bloom < 1529012933 840091 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer Bloom \ 1G \ Sorcery \ You may play up to three additional lands this turn. \ VI-U, P1-R, 6E-U, S99-R, 9ED-U < 1529012948 586950 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1529012962 374142 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, Amulet of Vigor is strange < 1529012983 297105 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the rav dual lands have their uses, but they're usually not that much broken < 1529012993 427112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Primeval Titan < 1529012994 160374 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primeval Titan \ 4GG \ Creature -- Giant \ 6/6 \ Trample \ Whenever Primeval Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, you may search your library for up to two land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library. \ M11-M, M12-M, MM2-M < 1529013018 368702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to search out a land that can give it haste :-) < 1529013023 706985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(remember that the Amulet will untap them) < 1529013031 668512 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that means only the Amulet is crazy, not all ten rav common dual lands < 1529013046 359085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Magic devs think that the rav common duals are too strong < 1529013051 714016 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1529013058 815558 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're strong too, but not tournament strong < 1529013061 475449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, not 100% sure on that < 1529013087 718405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically playing {1} to "search out a land" (the land you bounced) < 1529013106 602080 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just the rare duals or the Signets or something that they think are slightly too strong? < 1529013149 868242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"search your library for a basic land card, place it into your hand, shuffle your library, then draw a card" would be the approximate equivalent of that effect if it were a sorcery rather than a land < 1529013158 874788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that effect surely costs more than {1} < 1529013168 635323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than {1} and a card < 1529013175 67678 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they no longer print other lands that etb tapped and give two mana, they never printed versions that give RR or something, only the dual ones, and only that cycle < 1529013179 572080 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess they might think that < 1529013197 745029 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just thought there just aren't any reasonable versions they could invent other than this one cycle of ten < 1529013238 650808 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they didn't want to print mono-colored ones, because they rarely have non-basic land slots for that sort of luxury that doesn't fix mana, like only once in every two years or so < 1529013266 345578 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1529013295 276907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my attempt at designing that: "~ enters the battlefield tapped. If ~ would untap, instead you may pay {1}, if you do untap it. T: add GW to your mana pool." < 1529013311 170931 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? how is that equivalent? why are you even searching for basic lands? < 1529013323 210078 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common rav duals don't do any searching < 1529013327 29862 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it comparable? < 1529013328 147014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they bounce a land to your hand < 1529013336 744592 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but doesn't search for any color < 1529013339 72902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're one land up < 1529013342 681998 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just those two colors < 1529013350 937600 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your version fixes to any color < 1529013354 718890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that giving you two specific colors was similar to searching for one < 1529013363 72878 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1529013367 660277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not identical, they will be of similar strength in three-color decks < 1529013384 201 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fixing five colors is stronger than fixing two, and wizards seems to think so too, at least on dual lands < 1529013393 573060 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple lands and five-colored lands always seem weaker < 1529013416 347887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most 5c lands actually released are terrible, though < 1529013421 194011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Mana Confluence < 1529013421 800778 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1529013421 896691 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mana Confluence \ Land \ {T}, Pay 1 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. \ JOU-R, EXP-M < 1529013427 106890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Cavern of Souls < 1529013427 811614 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cavern of Souls \ Land \ As Cavern of Souls enters the battlefield, choose a creature type. \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a creature spell of the chosen type, and that spell can't be countered. \ AVR-R, MM3-M < 1529013433 428604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the only two that are commonly played < 1529013449 36055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although there's a nerfed version of Cavern now which also see play; Cavern is totally bonkers) < 1529013458 265801 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there's a better one, but deck-specific < 1529013480 73016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one that generates any color but it can only be used for creatures, ditto one like that for artifacts < 1529013485 982381 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Ancient Ziggurat < 1529013486 696075 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient Ziggurat \ Land \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a creature spell. \ CON-U, H09-U < 1529013488 111818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is sometimes played in exclusively-creatures decks < 1529013512 224870 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that < 1529013533 913000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to generate any color for artifacts isn't all that useful an effect ;-) < 1529013539 252753 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works even in decks with only 32 creatures, not 36 < 1529013553 755368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only some of them, you need to get mana for activated abilities from somewhere < 1529013571 433266 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I understand the point, it's worse late game if you aren't playing a deck where you want to cast a creature card every turn < 1529013594 576650 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, very situational < 1529013610 680246 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well in a few decks only < 1529013620 51254 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, Cavern of Souls is better in general < 1529013626 450849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the strongest decks I ever built wanted to play multiple creatures on most turns < 1529013631 434561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd love Ancient Ziggurat < 1529013632 80572 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen that one too < 1529013648 234486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a tribal deck, so Cavern of Souls would have been even better < 1529013650 925848 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have some such decks, and want to build some, and have played against such decks < 1529013654 80873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously it'd just play 4 of both though) < 1529013713 969584 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1529013787 705727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1529013901 585503 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in your text, "Mountain (the basic land for red)" -- wait, there are M:tG players who don't know that? even beginners? < 1529013948 714323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1529013960 865599 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove that parenthetical then, I think < 1529013978 158674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more focusing on why we pick that card < 1529013980 672826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want a red basic land < 1529013984 754497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Mountain happens to be a red basic < 1529013992 682741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we could use Snow-covered Mountain instead? :-D < 1529013992 943375 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, ok < 1529013997 467043 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1529014008 424291 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you could. but it's not cheap < 1529014015 749655 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1529014043 436274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is compared to most of the cards in that deck :-D < 1529014056 252008 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529014063 223717 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1529014077 662351 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1529014109 254899 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seems expensive compared to the plain Mountain I guess < 1529014142 500124 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying because of the rule that you can actually use more than 4 of them < 1529014156 996618 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could, but you'd have to buy them thenm < 1529014182 222668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was also a rule during Coldsnap (i.e. you can run as many as you like but you have to draft them) < 1529014195 860499 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1529014209 592099 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the rule in limited < 1529014261 674600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is imagining what it would be like if that was the rule in Constructed too
< 1529014283 161496 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thy also did that in BfZ, didn't they < 1529014285 202559 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra dumb < 1529014289 362685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would join Coldsnap drafts just to draft all the snow lands so that they could legally be played < 1529014302 258580 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now they printed a sixth such crazy basic land too, one that you could have more than four of, but you have to buy more than four < 1529014309 189902 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think there are like two creature too < 1529014324 871323 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529014346 860991 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, isn't that still the rule in constructed? < 1529014359 348860 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Modern that is < 1529014391 274557 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes < 1529014395 805256 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same price for those < 1529014419 875069 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have snow lands, but that's only because I have bought a Coldsnap theme deck, and you can only get 4 of the 5 colors that way < 1529014441 335829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Wastes < 1529014442 408764 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wastes \ Basic Land \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ OGW-C < 1529014451 61667 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have 11 snow swamps and 13 snow islands, which is the annoying number, 13 swamps and 11 islands would be so much better < 1529014467 963843 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of those is random, they give one random snow land in foil as a bonus card) < 1529014491 69620 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe always a foil snow island? I don't recall. the main deck has only 23 I think.) < 1529014502 50414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, Wastes is normally only played in Commander (where having basic lands can be important and some decks can't legally run any of the other five) < 1529014546 642309 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1529014550 323423 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, and some very strange constructed decks. and the two (?) basic creatures are even worse. < 1529014577 670996 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only play the creatures in decks that have like at least 20 of them, but possibly 100 < 1529014613 762117 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, decks with mostly two cards, one basic land and one basic creature < 1529014628 252122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked a database of tournament results, no deck containing Wastes has scored highly enough to be recorded in any tournament in any of the formats it records (Standard, Modern, Legacy) < 1529014631 55231 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the archetype from back before the 4 card limit < 1529014643 332281 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1529014679 200697 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but snow lands would actually be used, because they're almost always better than ordinary basics, so you'd play them in any deck instead of basics if you have even one card that cares about them < 1529014688 870011 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-73-101.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1529014688 931598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-73-101.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1529014688 931650 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1529014696 515229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it tracks a few other formats too (e.g. Vintage and Pauper) < 1529014713 437961 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see < 1529014732 890069 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but how many years back does it go? < 1529014740 680995 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that database that is < 1529014748 161562 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just current standard, right? < 1529014802 276481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since before Wastes was printed < 1529014825 660956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how far before but that doesn't really matter, as it can't have placed well in a tournament before it was printed < 1529014838 598547 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529014844 827255 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529014871 95271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of the snow-covered lands, they only appear to be good in two decks, one of which is red, one of which is blue/red < 1529014878 951517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only the island and mountain are played < 1529014911 102952 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, the island is the best < 1529014929 720535 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest are free < 1529014929 802797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the mountain be best on that theory? < 1529014940 139033 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, yes < 1529014952 789277 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed the island would be the best because blue has the best cards that care about snow < 1529014956 592252 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not < 1529014969 955188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Skred < 1529014970 676018 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skred \ R \ Instant \ Skred deals damage to target creature equal to the number of snow permanents you control. \ CSP-C < 1529014975 624468 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just don't know the red ones < 1529014981 520876 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1529014985 132035 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, red is the best < 1529014986 363136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only colored cares-about-snow that's tournament playable < 1529014996 160916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Scrying Sheets < 1529014996 946434 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrying Sheets \ Snow Land \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {1}{S}, {T}: Look at the top card of your library. If that card is snow, you may reveal it and put it into your hand. ({S} can be paid with one mana from a snow permanent.) \ CSP-R < 1529015010 118305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's playable if you're running a snow landbase < 1529015083 789691 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Viscerid Drone would be decent in limited, but not in constructed < 1529015170 579923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Mouth of Ronom < 1529015171 338280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouth of Ronom \ Snow Land \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {4}{S}, {T}, Sacrifice Mouth of Ronom: Mouth of Ronom deals 4 damage to target creature. ({S} can be paid with one mana from a snow permanent.) \ CSP-U < 1529015189 307980 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are a few more ones like that that would be good in limited, and give some extra if you have snow mana < 1529015190 910006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's run in the U/R/S deck because it happens to combo really well with the rest of the deck < 1529015218 156017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't be playable just for the card, it's only there because the deck is built around damage-to-creature effects and is running Skred because of that < 1529015264 612305 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, there are a few snow hosers, sort of like how there are non-basic-hosers for legacy < 1529015279 5179 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone playing snow basic lands wouldn't be stable anyway < 1529015313 75532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, nonbasic hosers are really common in Legacy < 1529015315 917013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Wasteland < 1529015316 569450 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasteland \ Land \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {T}, Sacrifice Wasteland: Destroy target nonbasic land. \ TE-U, EXP-M, EMA-R \ \ Wasteland Scorpion \ 2B \ Creature -- Scorpion \ 2/2 \ Deathtouch \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ AKH-C \ \ Wasteland Strangler \ 2B \ Creature -- Eldrazi Processor \ 3/2 \ Devoid (This card has no color.) \ When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield, you may put a card an opponent owns from exi < 1529015321 233769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Stifle < 1529015322 23892 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stifle \ U \ Instant \ Counter target activated or triggered ability. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.) \ SCG-R, CNS-R, MPS_AKH-S < 1529015331 590578 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529015333 690781 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1529015348 494718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly Stifle being a nonbasic hoser is a bit of a special case, as it doesn't do it directly; it destroys lands by countering abilities with a cost of "Sacrifice ~") < 1529015376 651390 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow hosers aren't, there's only like two or three that are any good, plus a few combos but all need cards from those two sets < 1529015385 899521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three < 1529015391 234897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice ace, alliances, coldsnap ;-) < 1529015396 376231 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529015402 551766 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what? < 1529015411 791568 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alliances doesn't have any cards mentioning snow, does it? < 1529015418 683319 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the block, but doesn't have cards < 1529015446 896420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name storm elemental < 1529015447 736365 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Storm Elemental \ 5U \ Creature -- Elemental \ 3/4 \ Flying \ {U}, Exile the top card of your library: Tap target creature with flying. \ {U}, Exile the top card of your library: If the exiled card is a snow land, Storm Elemental gets +1/+1 until end of turn. \ AI-U, ME2-U < 1529015452 203088 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it's two < 1529015466 759281 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1529015471 638470 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that was in alliances < 1529015472 977741 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529015478 476496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :homelands doesn't have any though < 1529015502 44520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :viscerid drone is also from alliances < 1529015551 76805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also gargantuan gorilla, and winter's night; the latter might or might not be a snow hoser < 1529015554 75730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name winter's night < 1529015554 719738 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winter's Night \ RGW \ World Enchantment \ Whenever a player taps a snow land for mana, that player adds one mana to his or her mana pool of any type that land produced. That land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. \ AI-R, ME2-R < 1529015558 261829 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :four alliances cards mention snow in fact < 1529015561 199384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a bizarre card < 1529015594 869806 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even seen two of them in the precon deck, only in the precon they're reprinted with coldsnap symbol and modern frame < 1529015623 800342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the precon reprints were given the set symbol from the original set but a modern frame < 1529015626 84615 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently I'm familiar with the cards but not with those old expansions and didn't realize that's where those two came froem < 1529015631 680005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dark ritual with a modern frame but an ice age set symbol < 1529015635 497436 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. ok < 1529015650 690441 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529015659 676679 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alliances exp symbol too < 1529015663 814133 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, I forgot < 1529015680 980534 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only two cards and I don't notice their exp symbol when I'm scanning through my cards? ok < 1529015687 220054 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I don't remember two bad cards < 1529015713 899594 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know what it is < 1529015731 718333 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alliances is one of the worse among the old sets, so I think I just don't recognize the mana symbol < 1529015734 424540 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exp symbol < 1529015818 475877 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are just too many exp symbols now, I can't keep them all in my head, and that one is one I never see because it's such a bad old block > 1529015828 435855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Undefined behavior14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55796&oldid=35566 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1113) 10expand > 1529015867 204207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-completeness14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55797 5* 03Ais523 5* (+29) 10Redirected page to [[Turing-complete]] < 1529015868 377391 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping they'd realize that and start to use either just one exp symbol per block and fewer distinct exp symbols for non-modern/non-standard products, or some systematic symbols for some series, but no < 1529015888 270486 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never did < 1529015897 129776 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except perhaps for the core sets for six years < 1529015903 819619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a row about the Dominaria expansion symbol < 1529015919 615473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in reverse video (on the commons) because Wizards were worried that it looked too much like the Darksteel set symbol < 1529015928 115493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now people are having problems distinguishing commons from uncommons < 1529015947 465998 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think a few of these new low power low number of copies intro set products < 1529015966 582560 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack < 1529015970 877171 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1529016007 421645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intro products share an expansion symbol with the most recent standard-legal set < 1529016018 205875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, at least the Planeswalker decks < 1529016022 798482 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they at least added a three-letter code that you can look up now, but there's still a random three-letter code for ever standard-legal expansion that you'd have to remember just like the mana symbol < 1529016022 816800 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbols are still thematically linked, aren't they? < 1529016026 354851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what expansion symbol the free packs use < 1529016033 210488 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Zendikar block's symbols < 1529016049 571520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: they got simpler over time, then they got more complex again < 1529016059 170947 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: in some blocks they were, but the thematic is different in every block, so that only helps if you actually remember any of the three symbols from that one block < 1529016062 787941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a symbol like Dragon's Maze is surprisingly detailed < 1529016072 109822 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but good luck with that after blocks < 1529016084 836658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some symbols are easy to remember, like Eldritch Moon < 1529016087 441426 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: even then it only worked for like every second or third blocks at random < 1529016096 167766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one's an exception < 1529016100 15521 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some symbols are easy to remember because I see them a lot < 1529016158 866804 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is the Eldritch Moon symbol special? < 1529016182 366266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell what the set's about just by looking at it < 1529016191 561588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it easy to work out what set it belongs to < 1529016196 583846 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's any that's easy to remember, those were the core set ones I think < 1529016204 168656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1529016211 671841 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain numbers or roman numbers from fifth to M2015 < 1529016213 965765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're reintroducing core sets (a new one coming out in a few weeks) < 1529016214 263273 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they stopped that < 1529016227 174067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M2019 is using the same symbol scheme as just before they stopped < 1529016231 499772 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1529016240 328791 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that one is good, except for the tiny numbers since M2010 < 1529016265 935991 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least they're really easy to remember < 1529016277 977675 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be one per year in standard, right? good < 1529016289 94013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as long as you remember that M2010 is 11th edition, despite the name < 1529016292 370988 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like between M10 and M15 < 1529016293 569250 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529016307 66352 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or the 12th if you count alpha and beta separately < 1529016315 795152 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they differ in like two cards technically < 1529016336 360007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other sets with similar issues that aren't counted as different sets < 1529016344 2858 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I never actually see anything older than Revised but still, if you want to number them < 1529016353 611599 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost never < 1529016358 373873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one set where only half the commons were available in any given pack… < 1529016372 435500 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have seen a few "cheap" Unlimited cards < 1529016391 809146 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1529016402 954880 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so we count Beta as the first core set? < 1529016407 343030 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Alpha is the messed up one? < 1529016411 681502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529016417 858755 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Alpha is still the most expensive set ever < 1529016419 569382 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529016421 950630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rather, Alpha is an erroneous print of Beta < 1529016424 537587 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is crazy numbering < 1529016433 366720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misprints are normally more valuable than the non-misprinted card… < 1529016441 199467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to being rarer) < 1529016452 201848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Alpha were more printed than Beta, then Beta would be more expensive < 1529016492 396976 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Alpha is no longer a core set, despite that it's the first ever set, and I thoguht the first products were only core sets (reprint only) and expansion sets, from before they even invented compilation sets and casual sets and stuff < 1529016499 673887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Alpha is part of Beta < 1529016506 427531 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529016508 882609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively called "Limited Edition" < 1529016516 666346 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1529016521 366335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell this because Beta cards have black borders, which at the time indicated that it was the first printing of the card < 1529016538 587584 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but don't Alpha cards have black borders too? < 1529016539 322946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzfaeydycvwqvrlc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1529016543 728749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529016555 866396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Alpha and Beta both contain "first edition" copies of the same card < 1529016559 46744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus must be the same edition < 1529016587 696742 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1529016599 613541 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did they first put reprints in black-bordered expansion sets? < 1529016611 533091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Unlimited has white borders, showing that the cards are reprints < 1529016626 282622 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it before tenth ed? < 1529016634 249737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complex, I think before tenth edition they always changed the art < 1529016640 215999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the card could be argued to be not technically a reprint? < 1529016644 336092 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529016655 43566 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wait < 1529016682 403804 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1529016682 954307 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529016705 914548 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think that was the rule < 1529016707 348458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there were definitely reprints in black-bordered sets before tenth, e.g. Birds of Paradise is in the original Ravnica (between 9th and 10th) < 1529016718 672674 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1529016745 634178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the whole border color thing became a mess fairly quickly < 1529016748 371103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why they got rid of it < 1529016770 969395 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529016772 415759 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing < 1529016787 641798 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also good thing they allow more reprints, and new cards in core sets since M10 < 1529016798 527553 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe that's a bad thing now < 1529016804 684410 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :means too many standard-legal cards < 1529016808 92319 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keep printing more per year < 1529016824 418708 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keep inventing new ways to cheat the quota every two yeras < 1529016851 596215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they intended Standard to rotate faster < 1529016855 865846 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the number of new cards keep increasing < 1529016873 88166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they thought that would improve the gameplay (and it'd also reduce the number of cards available) < 1529016874 394804 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without standard, just more new unique cards all the time < 1529016883 31949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people were unwilling to buy Standard cards if they wouldn't be legal for very long < 1529016893 69775 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they deny that, but actually keep increasing the numbers in various sneaky ways < 1529016940 559002 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of them aren't modern legal, they're almost all eternal legal and casual legal < 1529016948 395950 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to follow the card pool < 1529016988 258787 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are new cards in casual products, new cards in commander products every year, new cards in core sets, mythic rares mean 15 extra new cards per set since Alara or whatever it was, < 1529017012 666808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the addition of mythics actually reduced the set size < 1529017016 258733 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there will now be four expert expansions printed per year, not two, plus the core sets < 1529017021 913408 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will there be only three plus a core set now? < 1529017024 207265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sets are larger nowadays but it's because they increased the number of uncommons < 1529017065 957719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(each individual rare is more common now than before mythics were added, which greatly reduces the number of rares you need to make the probabilities add to 1) < 1529017080 117422 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, Origins is a core set too, right? that's basically M2016 with a funny name < 1529017090 312022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Origins is a core set < 1529017109 752959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it was in the core set "slot" and had a similar purpose < 1529017109 771106 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like core sets, I was sad when they abolished them, and was afraid of abolishing the block system because that would mean four new sets per year, < 1529017129 828850 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it be three standard-legal expoansions plus a core set now, or four plus a core sets? < 1529017144 698606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the abolishment of core sets demonstrated to me that Magic had a direction different from the one I wanted, but it was a symptom, not a cause < 1529017160 196748 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's always like two legacy-legal casual expansion per yera now, with new cards: yearly commander and one extra per year that keeps changing < 1529017168 80715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically my vision of Magic was as a game which rarely had major changes, just kept getting progressively improved < 1529017177 192786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Wizards see it as a game that relies on frequent shake-ups < 1529017180 35946 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? didn't you realize that way before they abolished core sets? < 1529017192 213771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1529017198 277008 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529017211 39066 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without major shakeups, they'll run out of design space, I think < 1529017216 66115 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess they announced that like a year before Origins or more < 1529017227 106373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major shakeups use up design space way faster than incremental improvements would < 1529017229 277933 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's one year earlier than I thought that you're talking about < 1529017230 187347 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1529017255 622349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the sort of person who'd like to see each set being 90% similar to the one before, with only balance changes < 1529017276 475398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt that'd make enough money to keep Wizards happy < 1529017277 390649 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and they're very bad for a casual player who has years when he doesn't even look at M:tG < 1529017293 604066 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you come back a year later and the whole system has changed, not just one new block and one core set now < 1529017295 413464 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every year < 1529017326 129579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Battle for Zendikar they changed a huge number of things all at once < 1529017327 68167 :Kai_Bruneji!~kvirc@62.33.194.66 QUIT :Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/ < 1529017331 874881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will make it hard to see which ones worked and which ones didn't < 1529017362 987472 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even when it isn't, they print like twice as many distinct cards a year as they used do, if you care about reprints changing the price and non-tournament-staple cheap cards too and want to look through them to find the common and uncommon gems < 1529017363 617234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help that that block was the worst block they've produced in years… < 1529017398 79600 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see < 1529017434 502036 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tenth ed and M2010 both changed a lot of things too at the same time < 1529017478 453697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then more recently they've had a rash of balance issues < 1529017496 758999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BfZ block's main issue was color balance, e.g. green was basically unplayable < 1529017504 23894 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as introducing modern, introducing yearly core sets (instead of one per two year) with new cards, a whole rewrite of the comp rules, a big change in the comp rules respectively < 1529017506 392587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least that doesn't ruin Standard < 1529017508 701579 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were two hectice years < 1529017533 518981 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that border thing and more reprints in standard-legal expansions I guess < 1529017546 753152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more recently they've had huge problems trying to prevent single decks or cards being dominant < 1529017559 573030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been so many card banned from standard over the past few sets… < 1529017562 75952 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, when did they start the more reprints in standard-legal sets? was it in zendikar? or later? < 1529017577 513403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was meant to be when they got rid of core sets < 1529017583 592578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they had to put the reprints somewhere < 1529017588 193439 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in what formats? < 1529017595 460877 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, standard < 1529017613 658514 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1529017618 233506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember all the standard bans recently < 1529017628 579347 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thikn it was earlier < 1529017649 209584 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1529017650 63530 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529017700 962192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are seven cards banned from Standard right now (with people calling for an eighth), and some of the cards that rotated out at the last rotation were banned at the time, too < 1529017734 810265 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually Coldsnap, one year before Tenth ed, when they decided they can get away with some new way to sneak print more cards every two years if they disguise it well somehow < 1529017740 692294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Timeline_of_DCI_bans_and_restrictions#2017 < 1529017746 333873 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :later they got so good in it that they're doing it every year, then more < 1529017800 804972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine total Standard bans since the start of 2017 < 1529017814 312546 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1529017837 748109 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first M2010 and yearly core sets with new cards to make up for the supposed "reduced set sizes" that they announced at Time Spiral (right after the huge but Tenth Ed which is reprint-only but standard-legal), then with casual expansions with eternal-legal cards, and often standard-legal extra stuff < 1529017856 581681 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Coldsnap was the first < 1529017877 125131 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's when they realized they can do this without being too obvious that it's something they repeat every year < 1529017899 781814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most recent Standard ban before that was two cards in 2011, before that was eight in 2005 (five of which were a cycle) and one in 2004, before that was eight in 1999 and two in 1998 < 1529017906 65138 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we have yearly Commander sets for eternal too < 1529017916 630730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the latest screwup balancing Standard is the worst since 1999… < 1529017921 534391 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of reprints of old casual cards to make them cheaper < 1529017935 962636 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes reprints of good eternal cards like Sol Ring too < 1529017978 963465 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the cycle is the artifact lands in Mirrodin? < 1529017984 657943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529018017 658186 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Skullclamp or that blade or sword thingy that often freely sacrifices itself or whatever < 1529018022 364532 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, mirrodin was strange < 1529018033 835376 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was in 2011? < 1529018084 563943 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, they had very few standard bans, often none for years, and also very few bans in limited or block-constructed < 1529018100 680879 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously they still avoid bans in limited, because they suck < 1529018117 815443 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they errata instead) < 1529018123 681900 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1529018125 433874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011 was the dominance of Caw-Blade < 1529018137 502253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the card banned from it were Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic < 1529018191 76843 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walking Atlas was an errata that was immediate, before the card was even released. that was very rare, and still is. at least that one isn't for power level. < 1529018220 442829 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't even have oracle texts the last time they'd need that, when they misprinted that mana symbol in some card back in some very old expansion < 1529018244 200293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Marath < 1529018245 330213 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marath, Will of the Wild \ RGW \ Legendary Creature -- Elemental Beast \ 0/0 \ Marath, Will of the Wild enters the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to the amount of mana spent to cast it. \ {X}, Remove X +1/+1 counters from Marath: Choose one -- \ � Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature. X can't be 0. \ � Marath deals X damage to target creature or player. X can't be 0. \ � Create an X/X green Elemental creature token. X can't be 0 < 1529018260 500983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "X can't be 0" was on-release errata < 1529018287 399113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third mode turned out to be pretty broken without that :-) < 1529018322 776721 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yes, Jace. he's the Twilight Sparkle of M:tG, gains a new major power every year. M:tG now has nine Jaces, highest count planeswalker ever, and a surprisingly high number of them were tournament-relevant < 1529018326 598520 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, three or more < 1529018351 234241 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like two so broken they dominate a format or is banned < 1529018387 287138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two Jaces so broken they dominated a format, but I think only JtMS got banned < 1529018394 456779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Jace, Vryn's Prodigy < 1529018395 157247 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jace, Vryn's Prodigy \ 1U \ Legendary Creature -- Human Wizard \ 0/2 \ {T}: Draw a card, then discard a card. If there are five or more cards in your graveyard, exile Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, then return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control. \ [Front face. Transforms into Jace, Telepath Unbound.] \ ORI-M < 1529018410 198755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one dominated a format too, but it never got banned AFAIR < 1529018417 823320 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also nine Chandras, but they don't get that powerful in tournaments, only in the story < 1529018434 299368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a running joke how many bad Chandras got printed < 1529018437 244295 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1529018440 636388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Wizards managed to print a tournament-viable one eventually < 1529018537 580998 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the bullet for choose one showing as a half-width katakana ki in IRC < 1529018547 477079 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1529018552 258531 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are seven Ajani, 6 Garruk, 6 Gideon, 7 Liliana, 8 Nissa (wtf, I didn't follow the story, when did she do that?), < 1529018566 554417 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because I have znc configured to parse as sjis if utf-8 fails < 1529018573 201181 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't HackEso sending UTF-8 < 1529018593 235499 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I distinctly remember when some people played with 8 Jaces (4 each of two different ones) in Standard < 1529018606 126133 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was early, in like the first three jaces < 1529018626 399361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what halfwidth characters does shift-jis have? ascii is halfwidth, and presumably it has all the katakana < 1529018633 827001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have hiragana too, or is that only fullwidth? < 1529018654 498219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that doesn't really count, though, Jace Beleren was only played to legend-rule the opponent's JtMS < 1529018667 54544 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1529018670 866344 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask oren or zzo38 about that, I don't know anything about shift-jis < 1529018673 264684 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do that with the original jace rather than new jace < 1529018675 747261 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well < 1529018680 36092 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :jace, the wallet sculpter < 1529018683 46088 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1529018687 19923 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1529018691 287970 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's broken < 1529018691 701571 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it a budget deck thing? < 1529018694 881550 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, really broken < 1529018701 553976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you were playing 8 Jaces, your own JtMS, and JB in order to legend-rule the opponent's < 1529018706 876779 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1529018721 954251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't want to legend-rule the opponent's with a JtMS if you could help it as you'd want to play the JtMS afterwards < 1529018732 405949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the legend rule has changed now (and the planeswalker equivalent of it, too) < 1529018741 37678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that sort of trick doesn't work any more < 1529018751 421602 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, playing wastelands to destroy any of 10 to 20 dual lands relevant in standard, that's fair game. but playing to kill one card? crazy < 1529018767 547326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how centralised the metagame was < 1529018774 573490 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1529018778 919300 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTG has a sideboard < 1529018780 744369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explains why JtMS and Stoneforge Mystic ended up getting banned < 1529018788 738991 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing to kill any artifact, or any red card, or any green card, or any enchantment, or any zero-mana spell, or any one-mana spell, etc, that's also fair < 1529018794 894424 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but playing to kill one card is crazy < 1529018804 489241 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1529018818 983281 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this standard? < 1529018821 969614 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes, but this was 8 jaces in main deck < 1529018822 77418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1529018823 503378 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in standard < 1529018836 713747 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all decks perhaps, but some tournament standard decks < 1529018845 737319 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also had 8 other planeswalkers iirc < 1529018853 845347 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not as strange as 8 jaces < 1529018858 386095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Creeping Tar Pit < 1529018859 120842 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creeping Tar Pit \ Land \ Creeping Tar Pit enters the battlefield tapped. \ {T}: Add {U} or {B} to your mana pool. \ {1}{U}{B}: Creeping Tar Pit becomes a 3/2 blue and black Elemental creature until end of turn and can't be blocked this turn. It's still a land. \ WWK-R < 1529018872 705945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ genuinely played in Legacy as a JtMS-specific counter < 1529018884 322349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it doesn't hurt your deck much if the opponent doesn't play JtMS < 1529018904 559892 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even 8 Llanowars wouldn't look that strange, and these days you could play them (I only have one of the other ones) < 1529018912 616023 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 8 Jaces that looks strange for some reason < 1529018920 525665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :llanowar elf, fyndhorn elf, elvish mystic < 1529018923 910529 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original Jace's still playable, isn't it? < 1529018935 457916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, Jace Beleren isn't a terrible card < 1529018943 878259 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, now there are three < 1529018953 127694 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in modern < 1529018984 774475 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have lots of Llanowar Elves and 1 Fyndhorn so far < 1529018986 869873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boreal druid, avacyn's pilgrim, noble hierarch < 1529018996 409527 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and Arbor Elves, yes < 1529019000 808777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(variants that produce other types of mana) < 1529019011 996193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elves of deep shadow, too, but that has a drawback < 1529019037 399810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deathrite shaman (not modern-legal but only because it was banned) < 1529019041 232330 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first deck involved 4x Plated Geopeed/4x Steppe Lynx/4x Adventuring Gear < 1529019042 395024 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess < 1529019044 351646 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar idea? < 1529019045 72306 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1529019128 441765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, we've got rather offtopic from discussing Omni-Tell < 1529019187 42944 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play Arbor elf a lot because it comes up for three reasons: (1) Imperiosaur, (2) I enchant land with auras, especially Elvish Guidance in the elf deck, and get double the lots of mana and go off, great finisher while still a Llanowar effectively, (3) If I can untap the Arbor Elves, I get an extra mana for free, that used to exist but only on card < 1529019187 135558 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s in 3 mana and up, Arbor Elves is the first at 1 mana and otherwise good card. < 1529019197 732477 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know. that's deliberate. < 1529019214 305952 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read Omni-Tell later, when we're not having a conversation, and I'm too tired to do anything useful < 1529019230 305626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really mean off-topic < 1529019233 673388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more that it had drifted a long way < 1529019240 139317 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529019263 418227 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you're always active on IRC when I'm not there or busy < 1529019276 285929 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm grabbing the opportunity < 1529019307 951007 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timezone problem or something, despite that you live in Europe < 1529019320 635247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Europe but mostly sleep on a US schedule < 1529019323 596248 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually sleep earlier than this weekdays, for work < 1529019334 397662 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be sleeping now actually, but meh < 1529019348 644901 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you are only in on weekdays evening US time, and even from that only late < 1529019378 626965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, IRC tends to distract me from work (as it is at the moment!) < 1529019382 869053 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1529019386 174163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing an OS update yesterday < 1529019405 136365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was pretty useful as it gave me a lot of esoinspiration (I can't do much but talk during those) < 1529019407 364107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't go too well, though < 1529019413 926127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things are still broken < 1529019466 538024 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you started at Zendikar? I see < 1529019481 295994 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :face is the place *nod nod* < 1529019482 430572 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that was a surprisingly good set, so that makes sense < 1529019493 959220 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have brought in new players < 1529019599 234951 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started at Coldsnap (actually played the first time at Dissension, which is one set before, but bought the first card of my own when Coldsnap was out) < 1529019608 238310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good sets tend to bring in new players for the set afte < 1529019609 821167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*after < 1529019619 983155 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that must have been it for me < 1529019629 668612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Avacyn Restored is considered a fairly bad set but was very popular < 1529019635 228665 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ravnica BLOCK was good, not just Dissension specifically < 1529019650 534246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I /finished/ at Coldsnap, pretty much < 1529019659 616515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abandoned Magic during Lorwyn as I wasn't enjoying it at all < 1529019770 991097 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I paused or stopped buying cards shortly before New Phyrexia (not because of that set, just at) < 1529019792 540063 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we could no longer play regularly, and always play so rarely that it's not worth my time to figure out which cards to buy < 1529019808 103320 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm considering to get back at some point, casually, and buy more cards > 1529019811 66323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GetWhen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55798&oldid=55791 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (-17) 10more typos/clarification < 1529019832 91803 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a casual way, not for tournaments < 1529019892 574991 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't help that New Phyrexia was when I was still in university, so relatively poor when it comes to my own money, with my parents and the state supporting my education but I don't want to spend *that* on M:tG > 1529019911 389540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Equipage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55799 5* 03Ais523 5* (+614) 10/* Minimized purely concatenative languages */ new section < 1529019938 821963 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to being not rich but at least having my own money I earn myself from a job, which means I can spend it on objectionable stuff, and M:tG is one of those < 1529020000 49969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to spend money on M:tG any more < 1529020002 590065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's being mismanagd < 1529020004 361810 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, zzo38: " what halfwidth characters does shift-jis have? ascii is halfwidth, and presumably it has all the katakana" < 1529020017 301461 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pinging them because they're the ones on this channel that I think might know this off-hand < 1529020020 923841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess I could just look it up < 1529020077 118724 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm good at this sort of stuff, for anything relevant on the west, but I don't know the oriental ones like shift-jis and kanjis and fullwidth graphics characters etc < 1529020078 957632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like half-width katakana and a few half-width punctuation marks < 1529020091 919289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it doesn't have all of ASCII < 1529020096 557965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing backslash and tilde < 1529020105 681691 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1529020109 935535 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tilde? < 1529020115 326930 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not underscore or caret? < 1529020122 909711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, tilde < 1529020128 883258 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1529020151 865491 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I guess makes sense, some of the ISO-646 replace it too, but only together with at least six others, not alone < 1529020176 435197 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :caret and underscore and backtick are the ones I thought you can lose alone or in pair without losing any other ascii < 1529020187 779288 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, backslash for the yen sign < 1529020199 110572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, it has the C0 control codes (including DEL), but doesn't obey Ecma-35 rules because it uses some of the C1 bytes as the leading byte of a two-byte sequence < 1529020221 406681 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that appeared even in some early 8-bit no-shift character set < 1529020276 149940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…after thinking about it, Ecma-35 is pretty ridiculous, isn't it? < 1529020281 509517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder terminal encoding is so difficult < 1529020294 72257 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, people gave up on that < 1529020301 7676 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only use ascii controls now < 1529020303 800364 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1529020318 138053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, C1s are commonly used, it's just that they're written with the 7-bit encoding < 1529020332 960817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they don't clash with a character encoding that uses the C1s for illict purposese < 1529020357 110733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESC [ is a 7-bit encoding of CSI, for example, that's really commonly used < 1529020361 833798 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, somehow today there are very few places that filter out \x00 or \x7f, and very few programs that consider it whitespace < 1529020391 743497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, CSI is in Unicode but terminals don't recognise it when it uses a multibyte encoding < 1529020407 127640 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1529020427 990000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode › < 1529020429 247454 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+009B ] < 1529020434 763023 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1529020440 626212 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESC [ always was there < 1529020441 155011 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it encodes to two bytes, and terminals usually have the VT-100 state machine not do any complex character decoding beforehand? < 1529020446 95257 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was always commonly used < 1529020449 730400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC should use that for color codes really :-P < 1529020453 385969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does? < 1529020458 192136 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1529020468 565355 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC has its own strange mirc color codes system that's horrible < 1529020469 934714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: ›1mbold›0m < 1529020469 953003 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1529020492 342677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could without any incompatibilities < 1529020507 357918 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that's not what's done. < 1529020509 374662 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really horrible, much more so than the VT-100 state machine, because it's small but has bad rules, can't encode certain combos because it's missing terminators < 1529020519 704861 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can't color a digit < 1529020534 550660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick a zero-width space in there < 1529020535 693652 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you color the character before that or put some other formatting on the digit too < 1529020540 374173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :044 < 1529020541 241322 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1529020559 990876 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that works now that everyone interprets every irc channel as utf-8 too < 1529020570 667201 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people started that only like 5 years ago < 1529020576 459629 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 10? < 1529020588 649443 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :[color]04[digit] works in the IRC scheme < 1529020591 508275 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 years ago it was less common, but still a thing. < 1529020610 202700 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, Hexchat's implementation < 1529020623 456446 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did the admins of freenode/#ubuntu-hu stop insisting that they're encoded iso-8859-2 and anyone who types utf-8 is warned and then quieted? < 1529020651 761470 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still remember that change, it was great, but not when it was < 1529020726 780536 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the last channel where anyone pretended that irc doesn't use utf-8 in typical channel messages < 1529020777 819763 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1529020784 844356 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's now a de-facto standard that messages to public are utf-8 by default, althoguh you can still encode any byte string except for three bytes in IRC messages internal between agreeing clients