←2018-06-10 2018-06-11 2018-06-12→ ↑2018 ↑all
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02:03:45 <zzo38> I have made several hacks with ifMUD, such as a way for a JotaCode program to read your own current channel. This cannot be used on other users, nor can it be used if you use the "nounzone" option. If you are logged in at the time, then it also resets your idle time, displays error messages on your terminal, and cancels paste mode if you have it set. However, does work.
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05:38:12 <imode1> so, I wonder if there's a way of translating a prolog-like rewriting rule into a set of rules for Thue that doesn't involve you contorting yourself.
05:38:33 <imode1> so instead of doing just <lhs> ::= <rhs>, you can do <lhs1>, <lhs2>, <lhs3>, ..., <lhsN> ::= <rhs>
05:39:24 <imode1> meaning "if these ALL patterns match, rewrite them all to the rhs."
05:41:03 <imode1> but otherwise, skip the rule.
05:41:10 <imode1> you'd need some kind of flag system I think.
05:45:18 <imode1> I just wonder what the "primitive machines" are for languages like Thue. I know you can build up larger machines from smaller machines in other automata, but composition in Thue seems like a tough nut to crack.
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05:51:34 <wob_jonas> ok, I'm no longer sure about anything I said yesterday. maybe a three-tape turing machine can actually simulate a d-tape turing machine with just polylog factor slowdown.
05:55:21 <wob_jonas> "<imode-desktop> what I'm looking to do is stupid but I'm exploring translating traditional game models (like roguelikes, text adventures, anything that involves some abstract interaction between entities that may contain arbitrary codes) to different models of computation" => hmm, wasn't there an IOCCC entry that did that sort of thing on cellular
05:55:21 <wob_jonas> automata with a global input?
05:56:28 <wob_jonas> "<ais523> creating a new paradigm for games programming" => is that for automatic saving the state and replay?
06:00:06 <imode1> wob_jonas: a CA with global input would be funny to see. got a link?
06:00:28 <imode1> puts "injecting input" in a whole new light.
06:02:10 <wob_jonas> imode: I think it's http://www.ioccc.org/years-spoiler.html#1993_rince
06:06:43 <imode1> oh yeah. I recognize that.
06:07:07 <imode1> there have been several kinds of languages like that, but they all conform to a 2D grid.
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07:21:15 <shachaf> `smlist 467
07:21:15 <HackEso> smlist 467: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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08:27:24 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55609&oldid=55606 * Plokmijnuhby * (+36) I think I misinterpreted that instruction while checking the divide.
09:05:42 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55610&oldid=55609 * Plokmijnuhby * (-12) Improved 99 bottles
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09:56:35 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cevat * New user account
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11:10:53 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55611&oldid=55579 * Cevat * (+364) /* Introductions */
11:31:11 <esowiki> [[LOLZ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55612 * Cevat * (+707) Created page with "LOLZ is a language that ignores everything except the letters 'l', 'o,' and 'z'. Its main goal is to let users to write any program in one line. Also LOLZ is an error-free lan..."
11:36:14 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55613&oldid=55513 * Cevat * (+11) Added LOLZ
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13:37:49 <zseri> hi again
13:38:42 <ais523> hi
14:22:54 <APic> Yo
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19:13:00 <wob_jonas> Suppose you have a language like postscript or forth that has both a call stack and a data stack. If the environment provides some sort of calls to do IO (whether a general OS interface or access to the application this is embedded in as a scripting language),
19:14:15 <wob_jonas> then it's possible to define the IO library such that IO calls require that the data stack is empty (i.e. contain only what the environment put into it when your code is started), or the call stack is empty (contains only whatever returns the environment put in it at the start, in this case the IO call needs to call back a continuation function of
19:14:15 <wob_jonas> the user code), or even that both are empty.
19:14:30 <wob_jonas> This could be easy to very inconvenient depending on the details of the language.
19:15:33 <wob_jonas> You could sort of say that TeX requires the data stack to be empty for IO stuff and even for variable assignments, but we don't really consider it a data stack.
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19:21:12 <wob_jonas> Of course requiring both the data stack and call stack to be empty could only work in a language where you can store data somewhere else in some global state, unless perhaps the IO call required that you put a fixed number of objects to the data stack, such as just one continuation function, which I think could in theory work in Underload.
19:24:45 <wob_jonas> And in a language like underload that only stores data on the two stacks, it would be natural to have some such restriction.
19:39:08 <wob_jonas> `quote
19:39:08 <HackEso> 698) <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:11:38 <imode> I wonder how you'd do tree manipulation in Thue...
20:43:35 <int-e> Well, you can have a token jump over balanced parentheses... for example: S( -> (xR, R( -> (RR, x( -> (x, RR) -> )R, xR) -> )T, where x and R are auxiliary symbols, will transition from S([balanced parentheses]) to ([balanced parentheses])T (I'm writing -> where Thue uses ::=)
20:43:55 <int-e> oh I'm missing x) -> )x
20:44:31 <imode> I figured. you can also take an alternate approach and do something like huffman encoding.
20:44:51 <imode> where your tree is a series of left/right paths delimited by brackets, like [00101010][0100101001]...
20:45:57 <int-e> and obviously Thue can simulate a Turing machine... but this is actually a bit simpler in Thue than in a Turing machine, I'd say.
20:46:46 <imode> yeah.
20:47:56 <imode> the path-based representation would be beneficial, because then you have some context: you can specify a pattern that starts at the start of a particular path, or at the end, or at any point in between.
21:07:33 <wob_jonas> I'm always sort of annoyed by questions like "how do I represent a tree" or "how do I represent a graph", because it really depends on what kinds of operations you want to do on the tree or graph, and it's not possible to give a meaningful answer without.
21:15:09 <imode> yeah.. and you also have to consider your storage requirements.
21:17:22 <int-e> . o O ( "How do I represent a..." -- "I'm sure there's an Unicode symbol for that." )
21:18:28 <imode> lmfao. "With a suitably concise alphabet..."
21:19:04 <imode> graph rewriting in thue would be a little troubling. the two choices of graph representation are complex.
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22:48:24 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55614 * Kaa-kun * (+23) Created page with "{{Distinguish/{{{1}}}}}"
22:48:54 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish/Confusion]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55615 * Kaa-kun * (+38) Created page with "''Not to be confused with [[{{1}}]].''"
22:49:02 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish/Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55616&oldid=55615 * Kaa-kun * (+2)
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22:49:46 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish/For the]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55618 * Kaa-kun * (+29) Created page with "''For {{{1}}}, see {{{2}}}''."
22:49:56 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish/For the]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55619&oldid=55618 * Kaa-kun * (+4)
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22:53:03 <esowiki> [[Template:Distinguish/For the]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55622&oldid=55620 * Kaa-kun * (-7)
22:54:40 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55623&oldid=53776 * Kaa-kun * (+6)
22:56:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:OneFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55624&oldid=50260 * Galaxtone * (+188) /* Missing Specification Information */ new section
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←2018-06-10 2018-06-11 2018-06-12→ ↑2018 ↑all