00:00:52 anyway he's on the unoffical discord 00:00:54 [[User:Xanman12321]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55530&oldid=55459 * Xanman12321 * (+17) 00:01:43 [[User:Xanman12321]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55531&oldid=55530 * Galaxtone * (-14) 00:11:25 and I think I just figured out how to make Roie turing-complete 00:13:07 ais523 00:13:19 whats the smallest TC fungeoid? 00:13:23 do you know? 00:13:26 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nopfunge 00:13:58 woah thats turing complete? 00:13:59 or, well, there's more than one way to define "smallest" but Nopfunge wins on most metrics! 00:14:19 well I don't know if I did it 00:14:25 wait no 00:14:27 I think it's the same 00:14:28 there's a demonstration on how it's TC towards the bottom of the page 00:14:33 I made a fungeoid that also has four instructions 00:14:49 the main thing about Nopfunge is that you need part but not all the program to be repeating, which is a bit nontrivial 00:14:53 and It can simulate NAND and move data condtional so it should be TC 00:15:10 https://esolangs.org/wiki/1L and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Black may be worth looking at if what you care about is instruction count rather than conceptual simplicity 00:15:25 i still don't know how four directions can be TC 00:15:42 so the minimum data storage you need for TCness is one queue or two counters, right? 00:15:52 in Nopfunge, the x and y coordinates of the IP effectively form the two counters 00:15:58 uh for some reason your 1L link redirects to non existant page 1Land 00:16:05 but when I go into my address bar and delete "and" 00:16:06 to get 1L 00:16:11 it loads the page 00:16:16 ok wiki stop being broken 00:16:17 I blame your IRC client 00:16:25 ok 00:16:25 there's a space there between "1L" and "and" in my original comment 00:16:32 ok icechat stop being broken 00:16:52 ... 00:16:55 Languages 00:16:57 Implemented 00:16:59 Unimplemented 00:17:02 ... 00:17:05 nice catgories 00:17:15 that's very common on a page about a language family 00:17:23 where some members but not all are implemented 00:17:31 oh it's a family? 00:17:48 whats the smallest instruction count they got? 00:19:55 [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55532&oldid=53846 * Ais523 * (+254) /* Black implementations */ Link to the Golly implementation 00:20:20 1L langauges are defined by being a 2D language with only NOP and "not NOP" as instructions 00:20:27 *languages 00:20:31 dang 00:20:33 2 instructions 00:20:40 most of them cheat by having instructions do things if you merely pass near them, in addition to doing things if you hit them directly 00:20:42 well nobody can top that 00:20:56 e.g. Black will turn away from an instruction next to the path, and move an instruction in its path along a grid 00:20:58 unless you count an instruction like "x" 00:21:02 being "one instruction" 00:21:11 and making it do different things based on position 00:21:18 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Unary 00:21:25 although at this point it is /definitely/ cheating :-D 00:22:40 ok but thats 1d 00:22:49 it's more zero-dimensional 00:23:25 although with some languages, you can effectively say "it's a 2D language, just there's no way to turn the IP so it wraps round and round the first line forever" 00:23:57 the https://esolangs.org/wiki/I/D_machine is a TC two-command language that doesn't cheat in any way, and the program wraps round and round forever 00:24:04 but I meant fungeoids 00:24:07 so I guess you could see it as a "1D slice of a 2D language" 00:24:27 if you want an actual fungeoid, though, you're going to need more instructions simply so that you can move the pointer around 00:24:33 or you don't get very funge-like behaviour 00:24:57 would I, D and R work? 00:24:59 where R was turn right 00:25:39 yep, although you're not gaining anything from the 2Dness of the language 00:25:43 as the control flow is always the same 00:26:02 since its turing complete 00:26:06 if you put in two commands 00:26:10 input and output 00:26:20 you could theoretically do what a brainfuck can do? 00:26:30 well, the I/D machine has no control flow so you have to be a bit careful with how you do your I/O 00:26:32 (two more commands*) 00:26:37 the normal way would be to use memory-mapping 00:27:01 say "when the pointer goes to such and such an address, a value gets input to that address", probably a bit at a time as it's a very low-powered language 00:27:05 likewise for output 00:28:27 [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55533&oldid=54111 * Ais523 * (+208) /* "A good GUI interpreter for Black" */ a rather late reply 00:28:35 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55534&oldid=55503 * Digital Hunter * (+117) added ... CATEGORIES!!! :) 00:29:25 damn it 00:29:27 beat us to it 00:29:31 WOOPS 00:29:36 forgive me :pray: 00:30:07 wait that is the creator of surtic xd 00:31:24 forgive mah. 00:32:20 [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55535&oldid=55534 * Galaxtone * (+0) 00:45:21 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:59:58 -!- MDude has joined. 01:00:46 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55536&oldid=55535 * Digital Hunter * (+41) 01:14:42 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:16:07 -!- brandonson has joined. 01:20:40 [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55537&oldid=55526 * Saka * (+918) /* Examples */ hello, world! 01:22:35 [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55538&oldid=55537 * Saka * (+165) /* Instructions */ stuff 01:22:52 [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55539&oldid=55538 * Saka * (+8) /* Instructions */ 01:41:54 [[Consequential]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55540&oldid=55482 * Xanman12321 * (+440) Re-added removed BF commands. 01:50:24 [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55541&oldid=55539 * Saka * (+305) /* Examples */ cat 01:56:13 [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55542&oldid=55541 * Saka * (+3577) yay I made an interpreter 02:00:45 [[User:Saka]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55543&oldid=55435 * Saka * (+169) 02:06:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:07:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:39:41 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55544&oldid=55443 * Saka * (+242) 02:49:43 [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55545&oldid=55542 * Saka * (+25) category 04:08:55 with an explicit destructor and placement new call <-- hm, I guess you are right. 04:35:56 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:40:53 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:40:59 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:19:16 [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55546&oldid=55536 * Galaxtone * (+45) Yah that's not correct 06:22:16 -!- atslash has joined. 06:24:07 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55547&oldid=55546 * Galaxtone * (+113) Added an example program. 06:24:33 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55548&oldid=55544 * Galaxtone * (+106) Added surtic example program over here aswell. 06:24:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 06:27:11 -!- xkapastel has joined. 06:38:35 hmm... 06:38:37 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Surtic 06:38:42 Computional class unkouwn 06:38:53 well there are infinite cells 06:39:20 and each cell seems unbounded 06:39:47 and loops are possible 06:41:55 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:41 [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55549&oldid=55547 * Galaxtone * (+0) Strings start at 1 not 0 06:55:22 [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55550&oldid=55549 * Galaxtone * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ 07:21:20 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:57:10 -!- arseniiv has joined. 08:15:38 -!- Naergon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:21:04 -!- atslash has joined. 09:03:14 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:15:58 -!- Galaxtone has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:25:45 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55551&oldid=55548 * Keymaker * (+487) Made one in Black. 10:35:28 [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55552&oldid=55532 * Keymaker * (+260) Linked the truth-machine as an another example. 10:38:30 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55553&oldid=55551 * Keymaker * (+3) Changed "I/O extension" in the comment to "output extension". My bad. 11:17:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:27:13 [[Black]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55554&oldid=55552 * ZM * (+0) Correcting my name 11:30:27 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:32:11 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55555&oldid=55553 * ZM * (+83) /* Implementations */ 11:53:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:31:06 [[Longplayer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55556&oldid=55510 * Plokmijnuhby * (+148) 12:55:51 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:00:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:18:05 [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55557&oldid=55545 * Saka * (+440) /* Instructions */ More! 13:19:32 [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55558&oldid=55557 * Saka * (-3445) /* Python */ Make it go to my GitHub page 13:22:33 [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55559&oldid=55558 * Saka * (-206) /* CAT Program */ GET 13:29:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:15:04 `dowg password 14:15:07 11570:2018-06-03 learn The password of the month is illegal in six US states and Saudi Arabia \ 11544:2018-05-05 learn The password of the month is . \ 11509:2018-04-14 slwd password//s,.$,, \ 11508:2018-04-14 learn The password of the month is way too late to fool anyone. \ 11444:2018-03-07 learn The password of the month is Schizophrenic Lagomorph \ 11345:2018-02-15 learn The passw 14:19:44 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55560&oldid=55550 * Digital Hunter * (+92) /* How it works */ 14:20:47 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55561&oldid=55560 * Digital Hunter * (-41) /* 99 bottles of beer */ 14:24:12 `cwlprits password 14:24:14 oerjän int-̈e oerjän oerjän oerjän int-̈e int-̈e oerjän oerjän shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän int-̈e shachäf shachäf oerjän boil̈y oerjän int-̈e int-̈e oerjän shachäf shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän gameman̈j int-̈e oerjän int-̈e oerjän mromän oerjän oerjän oerjän mroman̈_ 14:24:55 hmm, what was the variant of culprits that counts? 14:27:45 Vorpal: note that it may actually not be more efficient to use placement new 14:27:52 and even insert_or_assign uses assignment 14:31:55 `paste bin/culprits 14:31:56 https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/culprits 14:33:11 `culprits-c wisdom/password 14:33:13 ​ 27 oerjän 8 int-̈e 5 shachäf 1 mroman̈_ 1 mromän 1 gameman̈j 1 boil̈y 14:33:27 seems a bit biased 14:40:35 [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55562&oldid=55559 * Saka * (-32) /* Interpreters */ 14:45:33 -!- constant has quit (Quit: /dev/null is full). 15:12:06 -!- xkapastel has joined. 15:36:19 and even insert_or_assign uses assignment <-- yes I noticed that 15:37:04 Vorpal: note that it may actually not be more efficient to use placement new <-- would heavily depend on the type and other things 15:37:33 if there are any secondary allocations due to data on heap for example it would definitely reduce the benefits 16:29:00 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:44:04 -!- MDude has joined. 16:56:46 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:02:00 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:03:32 -!- MDude has joined. 17:05:40 -!- erkin has joined. 17:15:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:26:25 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:41:36 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:55:49 fizzie: does HackEso have the channel logs mapped somewhere on the fs of the sandbox? 17:56:15 or are they on different machines? I can't follow what's on what machine now after the changes. 18:05:22 It's not mapped, but it's physically the same machine. There's the UML sandbox and a Linux container (systemd-machined) around the HackEso part, but no network separation. 18:05:47 -!- imode has joined. 18:06:40 fizzie: wait what? no network separation? hackeso did have network separation. this increases hackeso's power a lot, as well as how much it can be abused 18:07:54 I mean "no network separation" in the sense that a network connection would be needed between the logs and HackEso. 18:08:13 isn't that just "no network"? 18:08:23 I guess. 18:08:48 I was thinking it wouldn't go through the network, just a file system mapped read-only, although a network could be useful for other services, 18:09:22 fizzie: does the UML sandbox map a part of the linux fs where you could bind mount the logs? (not saying you should, just wondering whether it would work... actually from what I remember of umlbox, it could do the bind mount itself?) 18:10:06 I haven't set up any outgoing networking from the UML sandbox. The container has it's own network namespace with a point-to-point virtual interface that can access the host system, with pretty strict firewall rules. 18:10:52 int-e: I would need to first bind-mount the logs into the container, after which UML hostfs could expose them in the sandbox. But it's doable. 18:11:16 just make sure it's read-only 18:11:23 we don't want the logs accidentally deleted or worse 18:11:27 That said, I have some WIP code for the web logs frontend to offer a (trigram indexed regex) search facility, and my plans involved just exposing that (over HTTP) into the sandbox. 18:11:42 fizzie: ah right, the outer container layer is new 18:11:54 fizzie: still it sounds easier than making a network connection 18:12:24 oh 18:12:28 it's a database, right? 18:12:31 hmpf 18:12:41 what kind oif database? 18:13:00 It's not really a database, but it's not plaintext either. 18:13:35 It's length-delimited protobufs, one file per day, Brotli-compressed. 18:14:12 wob_jonas: the IRC logs that fizzie keeps... I recalled that http://esolangs.org/logs/2018-05-raw.txt aren't actually files but generated on the fly; the rest was assumptions 18:14:33 fizzie: approximately how big are the logs? I wonder if it's easier to download them (at least the last ten years or so) 18:14:56 as in, me having a local copy that I can search 18:15:02 (I wish they were files so that wget -c could work :P) 18:15:21 basically for the same reason 18:15:28 Let me get to a computer and I'll tell you. Pawing on the phone is getting a bit limiting. 18:15:41 thanks 18:15:47 this isn't urgent 18:15:59 I'm just wondering for long term 18:18:27 So. 18:21:00 int-e: It might be possible to make wget -c work, depending on how easy civetweb makes supporting range requests. 18:21:35 I guess you could cache the formatted versions of the last few days, and serve them directly 18:23:06 -!- MDude has joined. 18:24:23 I thought I also set up an (undocumented) URL pattern that let you download the raw protos, but I can't seem to see that anywhere in the code, so maybe I was dreaming. 18:25:09 fizzie: are there redirects that always go to yesterday's log and today's log respectively, regardless the date? 18:25:46 No. The closest to that is the stalker mode page, which returns the *contents* of yesterday's and today's logs. 18:26:02 (The HTML version also uses a websocket protocol to stream live data.) 18:26:41 (Stalker mode has the same .txt and -raw.txt formats available.) 18:27:47 I see 18:28:18 The compressed protos (well, the last few days aren't actually compressed; it's a separate step that runs by cron and does all but the last few days) take up about 120 mebibytes. I don't remember how much the -raw.txt format takes. 18:28:40 [[Parent the Sizing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55563 * Digital Hunter * (+0) Created blank page 18:28:43 thanks 18:29:03 the raw text won't be much bigger either than 18:29:13 I mean, perhaps only twice or three times as big 18:29:23 They do compress pretty well. But not more than an order of magnitude. 18:29:45 I'm pretty sure I have a copy somewhere of the codu.org logs, since that's where I backfilled the data from (mostly). 18:30:21 ah! I was wondering how you got the old logs 18:30:42 Ah, there we go. 488 mebibytes, for logs up to 2016-04-03-raw.txt. 18:31:00 thanks 18:31:15 The gap from there to the start of the 'esowiki' bot comes from my personal logs, which you can actually tell if you look at the raw files because all the microsecond timestamps are 0. 18:31:54 and I can skip the early weeks if I want 18:32:03 s/weeks/years 18:44:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:36 `ysaclist 76 18:58:37 ysaclist 76: boily shachaf 19:13:09 -!- heroux has joined. 19:21:42 -!- Naergon has joined. 19:42:22 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:52:59 [[Turing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55564 * Joshop * (+901) Created page with "Turing is [[Turing complete]]. It simulates a Turing machine. == Specifying the machine == Turing uses a binary format. First you must specify how many symbols you are using...." 20:01:15 question. for a variation of BASIC that supports both 32-bit integer and bigint types, what sigils would you use for those types, and what names would you use for the equivalents of the DEFINT and CINT functions? 20:03:44 or if it has both 32-bit and 64-bit ints. 16-bit ints are such a past thing. 20:08:32 <\oren\> 🍁🍁Patriots buy only genuine Canadian maple syrup. 🍁 20:09:41 <\oren\> wob_jonas: sigil + for integer, # (number sign) for bignum 20:10:28 -!- heroux has joined. 20:10:32 -!- heroux_ has joined. 20:12:17 \oren\: wouldn't that be syntactically ambiguous? as in, does F+(3) could mean indexing the variable F+ with 3, or adding 3 to the variable F 20:12:33 also, # usually means "double-precision float", although not necessarily IEEE double-precision float 20:13:31 the normal sigils are % for 16-bit integer, ! for single float, # for double float, & for 32-bit integer, and $ for string 20:19:41 -!- atslash has joined. 20:25:08 <\oren\> wob_jonas: well the + operator is unecessary anyway. x--y works fine for x+y 20:27:26 \oren\: not for 32-bit integers, since basic errors on an overflow 20:27:35 <\oren\> although maybe there are better candidates that aren't used in basic 20:27:45 <\oren\> like perhaps \? 20:27:48 also, this hypothetical version wants to at least somewhat resemble BASIC 20:28:01 \ is tricky, some BASICs use it as integer division, and I sort of like that 20:28:14 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...). 20:28:37 you can use @, which some basics use as a sigil, or lots of other characters 20:28:54 although @ does have other uses, I think they don't conflict a sigil 20:31:02 <\oren\> `tell oerjan how do you rate Ai-chan's swedish? 20:31:03 I think you mean "@tell oerjan how do you rate Ai-chan's swedish? " instead? 20:31:04 you could use certain characters that are unused by most basics, except perhaps as extra identifier characters with an iso646-based character set, namely []~{} 20:31:08 <\oren\> @tell oerjan how do you rate Ai-chan's swedish? 20:31:08 Consider it noted. 20:31:40 or you could use some characters that don't conflict with being a sigil, like ? 20:31:47 oh, also ` is free in all basics I know 20:32:12 | might be the best actually, because you can say it's an arbitrarily long line, representing an arbitrarily bit integer 20:32:41 you could also use double sigils, like %% && %& &% %# but that gets ugly 20:35:15 -!- Guest31035 has quit. 20:35:29 <\oren\> wob_jonas: worked for perl? or did it 20:35:48 -!- lynn has joined. 20:36:00 -!- lynn has changed nick to Guest36240. 20:37:00 <\oren\> it seems like everyone prefers the -> notation in perl 20:37:46 \oren\: I don't 20:38:01 but that's mostly irrelevant here 20:38:26 -!- Guest36240 has quit (Changing host). 20:38:26 -!- Guest36240 has joined. 20:38:26 -!- Guest36240 has quit (Changing host). 20:38:26 -!- Guest36240 has joined. 20:38:42 -!- Guest36240 has changed nick to lynn. 20:52:55 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:03:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:03:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:38:57 -!- heroux_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:57 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:39:24 -!- heroux has joined. 21:39:27 -!- heroux_ has joined. 22:13:23 -!- boily has joined. 22:32:36 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:36:56 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:50:50 -!- moei has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 22:52:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:03:29 -!- variable has joined. 23:38:30 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:42:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:46:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:56:04 -!- moei has joined.