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00:26:35 <esowiki> [[Boolet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55382&oldid=55381 * Joshop * (+42)
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00:52:17 <SoniEx2> like, with normal bct, 0 and 00 always delete the same data
00:52:27 <SoniEx2> with self bct, 0 and 00 actually produce 0 and 00, respectively
00:52:52 <SoniEx2> is there a self-bct that produces the same result as another self-bct?
01:07:21 <pikhq> Not that familiar with BCT, honestly. Maybe?
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01:58:58 <esowiki> [[@text]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55383&oldid=55352 * Oerjan * (-1) Removing newline that messes up Mediawiki's braindead diff
01:59:58 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55384&oldid=55335 * Digital Hunter * (+45)
02:25:27 <esowiki> [[Boolet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55385&oldid=55382 * Oerjan * (-25) Bold title, section headings
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02:44:36 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Perpetum Mobile]]": Misspelling
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04:18:19 <arseniiv> some esolang should definitely be called Σ:3
04:18:45 <shachaf> But there's already a person with that name.
04:19:32 <shachaf> I was wondering about that.
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06:25:27 <Vorpal> hm, why had my laptop suspended to RAM during the night, that isn't supposed to happen
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07:15:50 <Vorpal> arseniiv: extension idea: sub assemblies, that you can attach to letters and then insert them anywhere in the playing field (or other sub assemblies). Each sub-assembly can have 4 different connections (one per cardinal direction), that can be either a string, a wire or a particle
07:16:18 <Vorpal> sounds annoying to implement proper execution with respect to turn order for that though
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07:19:57 <Vorpal> should two instances of the same subassembly be copies or the same instance though?
07:20:31 <Vorpal> copies, and this is basically macros, same instance and it becomes very hard to ensure consistent behaviour
07:25:54 <Vorpal> arseniiv: what happens if a piston pushes a box off the conveyor?
07:26:04 <Vorpal> or a string pulls it off
07:30:36 <Vorpal> or a piston pushes a box off the end of a belt?
07:31:16 <Vorpal> because right now there is nothing a piston can't push, so what does two pistons simultaneously pushing each other do
07:48:16 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55386&oldid=55379 * Vorpal * (+154) /* Playing field elements */ Clarify and document undefined piston behaviour
07:53:50 <zzo38> In a sokoban game instead of drawing the figure of a man draw the figure of a kind of animal that could push the boxes but would not be able to pull or climb over or fly over the boxes.
07:56:57 <Vorpal> zzo38: or maybe the roof height is just too low to allow you to climb over? Or the blocks are too tall and slippery?
07:59:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Paradoctor * New user account
08:05:13 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55387&oldid=55369 * Paradoctor * (+134) /* Introductions */ +
08:05:51 <zzo38> Yes, that is the other way
08:12:45 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55388&oldid=55386 * Vorpal * (+1258) /* Sub assemblies (sub) */
08:13:31 <Vorpal> zzo38: or the guy is playing a game, with rules, and don't want to break them to avoid being disqualified?
08:18:03 <esowiki> [[User:Paradoctor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55389 * Paradoctor * (+87) info
08:18:27 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55390&oldid=55388 * Vorpal * (+91) /* Turn processing order */ Halting condition added
08:21:07 <Vorpal> I suspect that when I implement this language I will only implement the IO extension. At least to begin with
08:21:58 <zzo38> Of course that is already the case, regardless of the pictures.
08:23:39 <Vorpal> zzo38: yeah but I mean you are playing a guy who plays a game, as opposed to playing the game directly ;P
08:25:08 <zzo38> O, OK, if that is what you like
08:25:45 <Vorpal> i like meta stuff so, yeah
09:00:58 <esowiki> [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55391&oldid=54332 * Paradoctor * (-74) /* Computational model */ it's the other way around: Thue systems are symmetric semi-Thue systems
09:09:05 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55392&oldid=55390 * Plokmijnuhby * (+566)
09:13:21 <esowiki> [[User talk:Plokmijnuhby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55393&oldid=55274 * Vorpal * (+430) /* Perpetuum Mobile */ new section
09:16:53 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55394&oldid=55392 * Vorpal * (+226) /* Loops and splitting */ Added clarification on how energy (doesn't) split.
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09:38:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Plokmijnuhby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55395&oldid=55393 * Plokmijnuhby * (+517) /* Perpetuum Mobile */
09:58:36 <esowiki> [[User talk:Plokmijnuhby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55396&oldid=55395 * Vorpal * (+237) /* Perpetuum Mobile */
09:58:47 <esowiki> [[User talk:Plokmijnuhby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55397&oldid=55396 * Vorpal * (+1) /* Perpetuum Mobile */
10:00:25 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55398&oldid=55394 * Vorpal * (-88) /* Scaling down energy */ Remove misinformed example.
10:03:51 <Vorpal> is it possible to construct a mechanism that moves infinitely far? You can push with pistons, and pull with strings, but I still don't see a way to make a self contained "glider" as it were
10:18:22 <arseniiv> Vorpal: should two instances of the same subassembly be copies or the same instance though? => I think copies, it’s easier to reason about and implement. E. g. what to do if one instance is pulled from the west and another isn’t?
10:19:04 <arseniiv> oh, you’ve already observed that
10:19:26 <Vorpal> arseniiv: hm, right, also pulling will be messy there, since if won't pull if it has a string connection on that side
10:19:43 <Vorpal> instead transferring the force into the sub assembly
10:22:05 <arseniiv> what happens if a piston pushes a box off the conveyor? => originally I thought boxes should be unable to move from conveyors, but maybe it could just sit in place if pushed/pulled from. We can even initialize such a standalone box in code—it just shouldn’t touch any belt from their corresponding directions
10:24:08 <Vorpal> you could use pistons to push between two conveyors!
10:38:20 <Vorpal> trying to think of a clean way to implement the language now, it is not a clean language, so that makes it harder
10:39:04 <Vorpal> think having dispatch tables per interaction type, keyed on entity type might work
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11:30:41 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55399&oldid=55398 * Vorpal * (+90) /* Scaling down energy */ Actually doesn't work like I thought, since energy is specified as buffered
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11:51:14 <wob_jonas> "<zzo38> In a sokoban game [...] draw the figure of a kind of animal that could push the boxes but would not be able to pull or climb over or fly over the boxes." => that would be difficult, because you usually see domestic animals *pull* cargo with a harness on a cart or sled, or carry cargo on their back, rather then push cargo.
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12:13:04 <arseniiv> zzo38: wob_jonas: it may be a robot with perfectly spherical hands, so that it couldn’t grab anything but could push
12:13:33 <arseniiv> or it even could be spherical all by itself
12:14:42 <arseniiv> FTR there’s a game called Enigma utilizing mouse-controlled balls, and it has great many frustrating Sokoban-like levels
12:18:58 <arseniiv> IMO a perfect Enigma level (and a common one is pretty close to perfection here) combines need for extensive paper notes, impossible dexterity, an infinite table (mouse dances pretty far out there) and an ability to make/consult notes simultaneously with making crazy jigs with your mouse-wielding hand. IDK what kind of people are the game’s target audience
12:21:29 <int-e> sounds like a tool assistance target to me
12:28:41 <arseniiv> hm maybe those high-scorers are lent a robotic hand
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13:04:52 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: or the Monster in the Dark from ''The Order of the Stick'' (webcomic). He's better at pushing than pulling. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html
13:14:15 <Vorpal> Hm, I'm not convinced by Plokmijnuhby argument that Perpetuum Mobile is TC. I'm not sure you can actually usefully get at the bignum information.
13:15:43 <Vorpal> arseniiv: ooh, been years since I thought about that game (Enigma). Even longer since I played it
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13:21:10 <HackEso> 351) <ais523_> meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary <ais523_> so far, it has found four digits <ais523_> I hope it will find the fifth some time this week
13:21:15 <HackEso> 876) <ais523> btw, I finally discovered what a burrito was, recently <ais523> they're kind of nice to eat <ais523> but don't really resemble monads
13:21:18 <HackEso> zzo38mtg//http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
13:21:29 <HackEso> 1/2:464) <elliott_> I hope in the future people curse me for creating such a shitty protocol. \ 1252) <shachaf> What is an esolang? <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang \ 90) <oklopol> you move on the tape and shit \ 1084) <Bike> a dark day for all of humankind <zzo38> Bike: Wrong. Not all of humankind lives in the same timezone. <shachaf> a dark day for some of humankind <zzo38> OK \ 1053) <shachaf> Hmm, is an Electronic Signat
13:22:53 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55400&oldid=55399 * Vorpal * (+595) /* Sub assemblies (sub) */
13:23:41 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: e: not found
13:26:50 <wob_jonas> ``` for x in {1..255}; do type -p "$(perl -e 'print chr$ARGV[0]' $x)"; done
13:27:02 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/ \ /hackenv/bin/ \ /hackenv/bin/" \ /hackenv/bin/# \ /hackenv/bin/' \ /hackenv/bin/( \ /hackenv/bin/* \ /hackenv/bin/1 \ /hackenv/bin/2 \ /hackenv/bin/3 \ /hackenv/bin/4 \ /hackenv/bin/5 \ /hackenv/bin/? \ /hackenv/bin/@ \ /hackenv/bin/` \ /hackenv/bin/f \ /hackenv/bin/h \ /hackenv/bin/n \ /hackenv/bin/q \ /hackenv/bin/w
13:27:33 <HackEso> `# <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
13:29:43 <wob_jonas> aha. bin/h is what produces the whelcohme output
13:29:54 <wob_jonas> whatever the name is of that command
13:30:17 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55401&oldid=55400 * Vorpal * (+615) /* String behaviour */ Improve and extend examples
13:30:29 <Vorpal> wob_jonas: so, looked at my new fancy esolang yet?
13:30:59 <Vorpal> hopefully it is interesting and at least somewhat original
13:31:02 <HackEso> bin/добро-пожаловать \ bin/wElCoMe \ bin/elcome \ bin/velkommen \ bin/welcome \ bin/välkommen \ bin/jrypbzr \ bin/velkomin \ bin/Welcome \ bin/WeLcOmE \ bin/tervetuloa \ bin/willkommen \ bin/welcome \ bin/wlcm \ bin/welkom \ bin/ozcome \ bin/bienvenue \ bin/autowelcome \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/wlcmr \ bin/rwelcome \ bin/ουελκομε \ bin/benvenuto \ bin/emoclew \ bin/relcome \ bin/welcome \ bin/WELCOME \ bin/zalgre
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13:33:09 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55402&oldid=55401 * Vorpal * (+95) /* Extensions */
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13:35:30 <arseniiv> hehe => that was about Monster in the Dark
13:35:57 <esowiki> [[Perpetuum Mobile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55403&oldid=55402 * Vorpal * (+144) /* File format */
14:07:16 <Vorpal> I'm out for a while, see you all later
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16:51:08 <HackEso> screwsss: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:52:57 <HackEso> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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16:56:54 <HackEso> HackEso: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:57:15 <HackEso> tswett: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:57:18 <HackEso> Cale: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:57:22 <HackEso> GeekDude: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:57:26 <HackEso> joast: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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16:57:30 <HackEso> Lord_of_Life: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:58:16 <screwsss> well i can see a lots going on in here
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18:58:48 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Appinv * New user account
19:01:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55404&oldid=55387 * Appinv * (+161) /* Introductions */
19:05:51 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55405&oldid=55372 * Appinv * (+17) /* C */
19:20:14 <int-e> let's call it enthusiasm
19:21:47 <esowiki> [[Css Script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55406 * Appinv * (+410) Created page with "Css script is a language created by Appinv to draw css shapes. it created in an attempt to solve the monthly challenges of creative club commands : fill black rect 1..."
19:24:34 <esowiki> [[Css Script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55407&oldid=55406 * Appinv * (+76)
19:28:02 <esowiki> [[Css Script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55408&oldid=55407 * Appinv * (-27) /* external resources */
19:28:31 <esowiki> [[Css Script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55409&oldid=55408 * Appinv * (+1) /* external resources */
19:30:05 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55410&oldid=55405 * Appinv * (+17) /* G */
19:32:28 <esowiki> [[Css Script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55411&oldid=55409 * Appinv * (+49)
19:42:09 <esowiki> [[GreenBerry]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55412 * Appinv * (+482) Created page with "greenBerry is a one line statement language created by Abdur-rahmaan Janhangeer as an in-shell utility for python programs == commands == examples var x = 1 class Man..."
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20:02:44 <zzo38> When using 7-Zip to load a ELF executable file it has eight files numbered from 0 to 7. What does each of them mean? It says file 6 is empty, and file 2 is stored with a smaller size than the actual size (the rest use the actual size), what is that?
20:06:15 <Vorpal> zzo38: maybe they correspond to the sections listed by readelf -S
20:06:29 <Vorpal> though sampling some files on my system have way more than 8
20:06:55 <Vorpal> ah it could be the segments listed in readelf -l
20:07:02 <Vorpal> seem to have 8 of those
20:08:00 <Vorpal> don't think it is a particularly useful view that 7-zip gives you
20:08:31 <Vorpal> readelf and objdump are far superior tools for digging in ELF binaries
20:08:48 <Vorpal> there is also a nice ncurses-based hex editor/disassembler/code editor called "ht"
20:10:04 <int-e> hmm, here it gives me section names as "file names"
20:10:23 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1026828/
20:10:38 <int-e> (though tbh it would never have occurred to me to try that)
20:11:52 <zzo38> I would think that would be more useful, but on my computer it doesn't (it also displays "Characteristics = Executable file" instead of "Characteristics = Shared object file")
20:13:10 <int-e> /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, stripped
20:14:00 <zzo38> 7-Zip does list sections and resources for Windows executable files (although only 32-bit executables; it doesn't work with 16-bit Windows executables)
20:14:02 <int-e> anyway, what Vorpal said... it doesn't seem to be the right tool for digging into ELF files.
20:15:07 <Vorpal> zzo38: what about 64-bit ones?
20:15:10 <zzo38> Yes, I know, I just wanted to know why it does what it does.
20:15:23 <zzo38> Vorpal: I don't know; I don't have any 64-bit Windows programs on my computer.
20:15:39 <Vorpal> wow, that is quite an old computer then
20:18:02 <zzo38> I do have 64-bit Linux though
20:18:44 <Vorpal> good night for real now
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20:25:41 <esowiki> [[Boolet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55413&oldid=55385 * Joshop * (+28)
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