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Got SIGIRL, dying...). 04:43:12 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:50:50 -!- atslash has joined. 04:52:46 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:54:28 -!- variable has joined. 04:55:27 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:57:09 -!- variable has quit (Client Quit). 04:58:57 -!- variable has joined. 05:04:05 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:04:21 -!- variable has quit (Quit: /dev/null is full). 05:05:52 -!- variable has joined. 05:16:29 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:46:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:47:27 -!- atslash has joined. 05:52:58 [[Schmuu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55308&oldid=55230 * Schmuui * (+0) /* List of types */ 05:53:08 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:58:22 -!- atslash has joined. 06:08:50 -!- xkapastel has joined. 06:32:09 -!- imode1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:43:29 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:46:56 -!- LKoen has joined. 07:08:52 -!- atslash has joined. 07:26:59 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:17:01 -!- arseniiv has joined. 08:28:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:42:47 -!- Naergon has joined. 08:58:47 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:05:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:30:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:31:20 -!- arseniiv has joined. 09:32:46 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:35:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:06:05 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 10:10:10 Argh, IRC is biting me in my back. I'm trying to find a bug report and patch from years ago, but there's no trace in emails, it's all been on some non-logged irc channel. 10:16:10 Ah good! I found the mail 10:24:26 -!- boily has joined. 10:29:55 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:30:08 -!- newsham has joined. 11:01:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WARM CHICKEN). 11:22:04 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 11:27:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:29:20 -!- nikgre has joined. 11:32:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:44:04 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:59:43 -!- nikgre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:07:27 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:45:15 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:16:12 `` ghci --version 14:16:13 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: ghci: command not found 15:01:06 so how do I do ghci -e 'import Data.List' -e 'interact (unlines . transpose . lines)' with ordinary command line tools? (this is a transpose; input abc \ def should become ad \ be \ cf ... it's okay if it only works for rectangular inputs) 15:13:23 -!- imode1 has joined. 15:22:02 -!- xkapastel has joined. 15:27:57 [[Tamalbolge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55309 * Kaa-kun * (+39) Redirected page to [[Totally Accurate Malbolge]] 16:18:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:58:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:18 [[Talk:The Insane Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55310&oldid=55290 * Plokmijnuhby * (+2891) Turing co 17:05:47 [[Talk:The Insane Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55311&oldid=55310 * Plokmijnuhby * (-56) 17:07:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:07:59 here's a problem that came up at work (twice, in different contexts): we're trying to effectively attach an extra field to an object in Java (in the sense that we want to store extra information that's specific to the object) 17:08:22 the obvious way to do that is to use a map from objects to field values, so you can store and retrieve the value via a set or get on the map 17:08:35 however, the garbage collection properties of this aren't the same 17:08:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:09:25 so what you actually do is use a weak map (e.g. WeakHashMap) and then, if the object becomes otherwise unused, the weak reference to it in the map key will break and the map will deallocate the value in response 17:09:46 but! this doesn't work 100% correctly in all cases, because if the value refers to the key, you'll get a memory leak as the weak reference in question will never break 17:10:06 the challenge is to find something that's 100% true to the original in terms of GC properties 17:10:23 this feels close enough to esoprogramming that I thought someone here might be able to help :-) 17:13:20 -!- tromp has joined. 17:16:03 Hmm 17:16:59 Weak map is also the thing I thought to use in JavaScript to add external private data to an object. 17:17:09 FWIW I suspect that this is impossible, but I really hope it's possible as it'd solve one minor problem and one major problem 17:17:18 zzo38: does JavaScript have weak references? 17:17:29 It has a WeakMap as of ES6 I believe 17:17:31 [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55312&oldid=55307 * Plokmijnuhby * (-3) Some slight bugfixes required, but mostly correct. 17:17:38 although in this case you probably /could/ just set a field on the object directly 17:17:49 [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55313&oldid=55312 * Plokmijnuhby * (-89) 17:18:01 sure, but that isn't safe in the general case for the obvious reasons :p 17:18:25 clearly you need some sort of language-implemented namespacing, then it could be safe 17:18:44 or even better, a way to generate fresh identifiers 17:18:53 that are unequal to any other identifier and can't be typed in the program 17:19:12 You kinda can these days, there's a Symbol type nowadays 17:19:37 you can still ask for all properties (both string and symbol keys) of an object, so you can still access it that way 17:19:47 so it isn't entirely transparent, but for practical purposes it works the way you want it to 17:20:03 ais523: Yes, the WeakMap object does that. And yes you can use Symbol too, to create your own public names. Both of these are useful for different purposes. 17:20:04 but hmm.. the Java problem is an interesting one 17:22:07 it feels like a chicken-and-egg problem, the ways I can come up with to do it all seem to involve being able to do it already :-( 17:23:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:23:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:23:49 come to think of it, this problem is equivalent to "given two objects A, B, create a relationship between them such that A cannot be freed before B is, without otherwise preventing GC operations on them" 17:25:03 It's a gnarly problem that I feel must've come up before in Java contexts and have had a lot of thought put to it 17:25:33 there is a statement in WeakHashMap's documentation specifically mentioning that this case doesn't work ;-) 17:25:45 so it must have been thought of before 17:25:52 but it's hard to find any potential solutions to it that may exist 17:26:03 ...but helpfully not providing any further hints of what *does* work, if anything.. 17:26:08 indeed 17:28:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:39:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 17:39:55 -!- arseniiv has joined. 17:41:07 aha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemeron 17:41:27 it's a GC primitive of its own, with a name 17:41:49 not mentioned in the Wikipedia article, but mentioned elsewhere, is that this can't be done in Java 17:44:02 Ah! interesting 17:46:01 Interesting how tables with weak keys in Lua automatically support ephemeron semantics 17:48:42 I suppose if your tables and the weakness of references in keys/values are primitive language features, it kind of makes sense to only trace the value if the corresponding key is found to be alive already 17:49:56 yes 17:54:54 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 17:56:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:03:14 -!- user24 has joined. 18:18:21 -!- Naergon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:25:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 18:31:03 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:31:38 did I just miss ais523, or did his client just disconnect temporarily? 18:33:01 oerjan: can you fix wisdom/wlcom , or delete it if it's unnecessary? 18:37:40 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:41:08 `? yes 18:41:09 yes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:16 -!- user24 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:41:27 . o O ( Yes is the answer to all tautological questions. ) 18:51:05 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:59:15 no yes is a program that outputs an affirmative response 18:59:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:04:17 `yes 19:04:18 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ 19:05:26 <\oren\> New new canonical way to express date and time is SMDH 19:06:06 <\oren\> `` date '+%s %m %d %h' 19:06:07 1526670367 05 18 May 19:06:14 <\oren\> `` date '+%S %m %d %h' 19:06:14 14 05 18 May 19:06:28 <\oren\> `` date '+%S %m %d %H' 19:06:29 29 05 18 19 19:06:53 <\oren\> `` date '+%S %M %m %d %y %H' 19:06:54 53 06 05 18 18 19 19:09:47 \oren\: meh, it's not much worse than the %a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Z %Y format that date uses by default 19:23:48 [[Andromeda]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55314 * ZM * (+3525) Created page with "'''Andromeda''' is a two-dimensional, queue-based programming language in which, apart from the usual direction-changing arrows (which also serve additional purposes), there i..." 19:24:09 hi 19:24:20 -!- ZM has joined. 19:24:43 Hi 19:24:57 hello 19:27:09 wob_jonas: how would you transpose a text file in a shell script? I.e., abc \ def should become ad \ be \ cf (I ended up with ghci -e 'import Data.List' -e 'interact (unlines . transpose . lines)') 19:27:50 err s/file// ... I wanted this as part of a pipe 19:29:02 Found an interesting behaviour with SPF: it breaks with mail forwarders like foo@users.sourceforge.net (why was I messing with my old sourceforge address? It was the password reset email for a very old account). 19:29:16 What happens is that if the origin host has a strict SPF policy, and the receiver verifies and enforces that, it will reject the forwarded mail 19:29:21 -!- user24 has joined. 19:29:27 That isn't all though: The reject mail that the MTA of sourceforge sends back to the sender also contains the email that SF tried to forward to, breaking the privacy setting of the user 19:29:41 whoops 19:31:48 lol sourceforge 19:32:02 Vorpal: so how many accounts have you stolen by now? 19:32:06 . o O ( awkward ) 19:32:15 XD 19:32:59 As a side note, I was sending test mails from the same email that I was forwarding to, leading to some really confusing errors messages, until I figured out what was going on. 19:33:46 but I managed to restore my access to that old old gmail account I used back in the day. Apparently I got about 4 emails to it after I last logged in in 2010 or so 19:34:05 none of them relevant 19:34:23 no spam? 19:34:46 but I guess that happens when it's hard to guess and never used in public 19:34:55 nah, well unless you count what google did trying to recruit FOSS developers a few years ago 19:35:38 and apparently I had registered a non-commercial intel compiler license on it too, since there were some stuff related to that too 19:36:13 int-e: re transpose, I don't know, but I believe there's a question on PPCG for that or something similar 19:36:22 these days I run my own mail server, and use a separate mail for each account, good thing too, the debian bug tracker leaks emails, so that one is aliased to /dev/null now 19:36:33 int-e: also, I think this year's IOCCC has a program that can do it 19:36:42 (it actually rotates, so you might have to throw in a tac) 19:36:47 I also run my own mail server and use a separate alias for each one 19:37:23 zzo38: does it have gopher based browser interface? XD 19:37:34 (note: mine doesn't, yet) 19:37:41 No; it uses only SMTP 19:37:59 what about accessing your email? no IMAP or POP? 19:38:46 The server is the same computer I mainly use, so it can be accessed directly. 19:38:48 /var/spool/mail? 19:38:54 ah 19:39:06 int-e: Maildir is the superior format 19:42:10 I am just using mbox format though, which is what Heirloom-mailx uses. 19:42:31 (And I programmed the status bar I use on my computer to display how many messages there are) 19:46:13 Maildir is much more well designed: no file locking issues, no issues with magic markers in the files 19:46:41 Well, I have not had a problem 19:47:39 How to do maildir format anyways? 19:51:38 -!- imode1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:57:04 [[Andromeda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55315&oldid=55314 * ZM * (+142) Categories 19:57:57 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55316&oldid=55159 * ZM * (+16) /* A */ 20:02:59 -!- atslash has joined. 20:04:25 -!- user24 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:04:50 -!- ZM has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:07:54 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:11:39 -!- atslash has joined. 20:17:45 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:28:47 -!- moony has joined. 20:30:10 -!- moony has quit (Client Quit). 21:45:07 -!- arseniiv has changed nick to Alisa_koshka. 21:45:15 -!- Alisa_koshka has changed nick to arseniiv. 21:45:24 -!- arseniiv has quit (Quit: gone completely :o). 22:06:04 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:15:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:18:29 Vorpal: They sort of have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticated_Received_Chain now to deal with SPF and forwarders. The tl;dr is that it's a way for the forwarder to sign a statement saying SPF validation for the original email passed, and then if the recipient trusts the forwarder they can accept it even if it wouldn't pass SPF. 22:21:49 Vorpal: I have an @iki.fi forwarding address (IKI ry being a Finnish non-profit to promote Internet use), and it's got similar SPF issues. Some of the people running it have very strong opinions about how SPF has broken the traditional email model. 22:23:03 Though the battle seems to be pretty much lost. :/ A lot of the email I send via my own zem.fi SMTP server (e.g. to Hotmail, Gmail) gets caught by spam filters, and I suspect that's because they just treat it as suspicious to get email from a domain/server that doesn't send much email. Certainly no other "check for problems" system has figured out anything else wrong with the messages. 22:24:02 (And that's with passing SPF and DKIM checks, and TLS enabled.) 23:58:07 I am not using SPF and DKIM, although I think I probably do not need it. (If I somehow do need it then I could add it, I suppose)