< 1524788463 345382 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524788907 682496 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1524789166 115806 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I came up with a "softmedian" function to match the "softmax" and "softmin" functions
< 1524789277 59215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it?
< 1524789489 287753 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all elements x in the collection sum (e^(x-a) -1)/(e^(x-a)+1) with "a" such that the sum equal zero
< 1524789521 431224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is softmin?
< 1524789552 277866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was mixing up softmax and another thing.
< 1524789575 551623 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to solve for a to make this actually useful
< 1524789635 119756 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for collections of only two elements it simplifies down to the mean of the two elements
< 1524790306 95206 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@74-36-159-174.dr01.nwmd.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524790332 923384 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@74-36-159-174.dr01.nwmd.wi.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1524794140 505042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the maximum length of the real name field in IRC?
< 1524794415 863145 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RFC doesn't seem to have anything about specific maximums.
< 1524794419 713141 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it's up to the server.
< 1524794487 648191 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the maximum length of 510 for a single message
< 1524795865 249000 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524795947 485152 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1524795951 322279 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1524800635 338870 :newsham_!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net NICK :newsham
< 1524800734 555532 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :x86-64
< 1524801882 202605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: hewsham
< 1524801894 700839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1524801897 340985 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:ppntat//Pen Pineapple Nutmeg Tamarind Apple Tangerine \ mockingbird//mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. \ minsky//to Minsky on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a Minsky machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer. \ cricket//Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who is out tries to get the team who is in to be out, and then the tea
< 1524801903 134912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1524801904 91640 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:m who was previously out can be in. Whoever earns more points wins, unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins. \ dosh//The doshes are what the gostak distims.
< 1524802661 960335 :x86-64!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ shachaf 
> 1524805454 575994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Nobody14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54921&oldid=54847 5* 03Nobody 5* (-43) 10
> 1524805617 103014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck--14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54922&oldid=37901 5* 03Nobody 5* (+0) 10typo fixed
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< 1524813665 166966 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zg13gdod5nwpdf.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1524813722 279740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DevHammed 5*  10New user account
> 1524813958 312478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54923&oldid=54920 5* 03DevHammed 5* (+81) 10/* Introductions */
> 1524814333 324869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54924&oldid=54923 5* 03DevHammed 5* (+7) 10/* Introductions */
< 1524815337 583956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: So if I write a' = a, can indices of a be used for indexing a'?
< 1524815367 530368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I store indices of a somewhere where a isn't in scope, and use them later?
< 1524815572 234101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as a type of values that can only be used as arguments for a specific function?
< 1524816691 407058 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524816753 983666 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
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< 1524816757 521861 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest
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< 1524818294 294770 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1524818848 115816 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fdepends on the semantics of the language. They're different types, in something like C that could work but in Haskell you might need fromIntegral
< 1524818879 653139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could work?
< 1524818882 653735 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you wouldn't be able to store indices somewhere where the array isn't available
< 1524818929 660875 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think a type of values that can only be used as arguments for a specific function makes sense to me, as it prevents composition
< 1524818949 616406 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm answering your questions, starting from the one at 8:48 BST, in order
< 1524818987 44779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if a' is equal to a, I imagine an index of a should be usable for a'?
< 1524818998 735888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on whether you have a notion of object identity and what equality means.
< 1524819025 125331 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! I misunderstood!
< 1524819026 901066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But an array is just a function from indices to addresses.
< 1524819103 673925 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd imagine an index of a would be usable as an index of a' if a' is the same array
< 1524819110 86756 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly even if a' is a slice of a?
< 1524819146 913461 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1524819480 25479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: This is sounding like a complicated feature.
< 1524819498 896337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't you get a lot of the benefit from index types tied to array types but not to specific arrays?
< 1524819757 297926 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tohwtbtljmogcnfh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1524820369 754371 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't have prevented the error that inspired this
< 1524820374 814021 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do some thinking over the weekend
< 1524820378 211465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1524820424 549518 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I was indexing into an array of indexes
< 1524820757 301516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So if your array of indices and array of values had different types, it could've helped.
< 1524820886 39958 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1524825186 567277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54925&oldid=52755 5* 03Chronos 5* (+19) 10
> 1524825490 358375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54926&oldid=54925 5* 03Chronos 5* (+39) 10added Grawlix
< 1524826224 697726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524826245 235017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a standard formalization for computable partial functions?
< 1524826252 763903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. based on a Turing machine with some specific I/O mechanism?
< 1524826280 44273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have Turing machines as a formalism for halt/no-halt programs, and brainfuck as a formalism for interactive I/O
< 1524826287 61468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the case of non-interactive I/O is a bit less clear to me
< 1524826383 756307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are partial recursive functions...
< 1524826448 316900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the µ-recursive functions seem to be a standard definition of what I'm looking for
< 1524826460 510982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use Brainfuck without , with some fixed convention for reading the input to tape. (say, >[,>]<[<]> ... i.e., the input starts from the second tape position; the first byte is kept at 0)
< 1524826468 777388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's basically primitive recursive + a minimum operator)
< 1524826483 146650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm hoping for a mathematical definition really
< 1524826499 309769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'd use that one
< 1524826504 635617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a language that aims to be a "standard language for noninteractive I/O" which you implement to prove your language can do it
< 1524826519 848243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd like to prove my language equivalent to the mathematical definition
< 1524826666 848503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the formalization I've recently worked with cheated a bit... a partial recursive function is a partial function whose graph (modulo an encoding of pairs) is a recursively enumerable set; a set X is recursively enumerable if there is a function f such that x in X iff there is a y with f(x,y) = 0.
< 1524826716 32089 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is equivalent to adding a minimisation operator... thanks the the normal form theorem, essentially ... but the formalization doesn't prove that.)
< 1524826760 660997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection
< 1524826773 652040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1524826787 148540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54927&oldid=54926 5* 03Chronos 5* (+48) 10
< 1524827745 392485 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1524828645 327883 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524828669 863820 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<ais523> is there a standard formalization for computable partial functions?" => that language Amycus was intended to be before I made an error is a pretty good formulation for that
< 1524828697 702630 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions take integers as input and give integers as output, but lists and the code of the functions are also encoded as integers
< 1524828705 648763 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually natural numbers, not integers
< 1524828724 896082 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no interactive IO mechanism, just an input parameter and an output parameter
< 1524828763 501181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm learning from this is that the standard formalisations are much more complicated than my typical tarpit :-)
< 1524828781 530607 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!
< 1524828784 378665 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0) isn't complicated
< 1524828786 279460 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite simple
< 1524828790 923602 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1524828796 218357 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Amycus isn't complicated
< 1524828799 179587 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0) is, don't use that
< 1524828805 126650 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the language Amycus was meant to be
< 1524828848 361311 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has function calls, successor for integers, making pairs, constant zero, and comparison or whatever the primitives were
< 1524828850 376335 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check
< 1524829036 615966 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the primitives are: 0: identity function, 1: any constant, 2: successor, 3: tuple indexing, 4: equality, 5: composition, 6: eval
< 1524829042 701355 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, yes, that's not the simple language you want
< 1524829070 377529 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1524829071 977471 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 isn't eval
< 1524829086 39993 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's eval in my botched Amycus version
< 1524829089 160666 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck did this work
< 1524829113 838969 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something more natural in the original Amycus
< 1524829251 431262 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the mainstream places that use Turing-machines, they use multi-tape machines to define things like this, I think.
< 1524829264 476429 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, with separate tapes just for input and output
< 1524829358 917935 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... how the heck did the original Amycus work? I never really wrote it down properly
< 1524829441 240769 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1524829446 980476 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those weren't how the primitives worked
< 1524829493 882017 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that you have to consider everything as multi-argument functions, taking not a single integer, but a list of which it will access only the first few (constant number of) elements
< 1524829541 370721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's basically a syntax for µ-recursion at this point I think
< 1524829557 456920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, maybe not?
< 1524829619 293413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :µ-recursion has integer successor, +1, identity, composition/substitution, primitive recursion, minimisation
< 1524829646 181408 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 1 is constant, rule 2 is successor, rule 3 accesses an input argument (at a given constant index), rule 4 is equality conditional, rule 5 is composition, and rule 6 is sort of eval, but 5 and 6 together can be used to emulate the S from a lambda expression, that is, calling variable functions
< 1524829719 604396 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another thing you could do is lambda calculus where every value is either a function or a natural number, and if you try to call a natural number or do arithmetic on a function, you get a runtime error. this is somewhat similar to the original Amycus
< 1524829767 628083 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the original Amycus doesn't give runtime errors when you mix types, and also uses some de-Bruin or whatever encoding of the lambda terms
< 1524829936 94613 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syntax is common-lisp-like in that the ordinary syntax lets you call only constant functions, and you need a special primitive 6 to call the result of a computation
< 1524829965 339052 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need that for Turing-completeness, because just like in lambda-calculus, calling the result of a computation is the only way to loop
< 1524830123 194728 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, lambda calculus is probably not the easiest to simulate if you want to prove lots of languages T-c
< 1524830253 715917 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1524830294 435305 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the model I would prefer is pointer machines with read-only heap, no call stack only gotos. these can take input and give output in a register.
< 1524830320 32788 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's also not one you'd want to implement.
< 1524830325 207414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a read-only heap? do you mean that objects are read-only after construction?
< 1524830372 961679 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can create conses (or possibly other algebraic structures too, declared at compile time, but here let's stick to conses), you have registers, each value is either a null or a pointer to a cons,
< 1524830423 496892 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operations are determining if a register contains cons and conditional jumping (there's no comparison), taking the car or cdr of a register and putting it to another register, copying a register to another register (this is actually optional), and putting null to a register.
< 1524830467 512311 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also allocating a new cell on the heap by consing two registers and putting a pointer to the result in a register.
< 1524830483 995819 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each state of the program tells which of these are done, and one or two next states.
< 1524830490 373220 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the registers they're done on
< 1524830500 994865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you could almost do this using bignums and mingle from INTERCAL (together with a corresponding demingle)
< 1524830508 272346 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524830519 712287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, given how easy demingle is to write in INTERCAL, this is basically bignum INTERCAL full stop :-)
< 1524830630 736398 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps, but actually representing trees with integers is not very natural, they tend to grow exponentially
< 1524830651 612923 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's sort of what Amycus does, but with a different representation as integers that grows even worse
< 1524830668 852371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well these integers aren't really interpreted as integers
< 1524830671 215379 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in an implementation, you'll actually store lists, not integers
< 1524830679 919820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just a Gödel encoding of nested conses
< 1524830822 528214 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you want easy proof of T-c, then you don't even want to store trees,
< 1524830828 191853 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want some simpler language that works only with integers
< 1524830829 975104 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to emulate
< 1524830861 298419 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, like Minsky machines
< 1524830870 170620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on one now
< 1524830873 230959 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those could take input and output in a register, right?
< 1524830881 275957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to prove it /equivalent/ to the existing examples
< 1524830888 804042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, Minsky machines are non-interactive-IO complete with 3 counters
< 1524830898 491334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if there's a formal proof of that anywhere
< 1524830985 848252 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAOCP uses a string-replacement esolang (Chomsky style) to define computations in the abstract sense, but I'm not sure what IO that has
< 1524831000 940730 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we even have a wiki entry for that by the way?
< 1524831053 565191 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we don't. I'll have to create one
< 1524831264 290950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that's what I was working on :-)
< 1524831269 109945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably with slightly different semantics
< 1524831282 223255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define noninteractive I/O for it fairly easily
> 1524831316 964855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54928&oldid=53643 5* 03B jonas 5* (+218) 10
< 1524831570 610275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that we have a copy of _The Theory of Algorithms_ in our university somewhere
< 1524831574 188668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might look for it
< 1524831621 394062 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Knuth also lists a newer version
< 1524831639 131707 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be careful, there are so many different books named like that
< 1524831653 836116 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty popular title
< 1524831674 880326 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1524831684 679514 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the popular title was "Introduction to the theory of algorithms"
< 1524831693 92192 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1524831697 56324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I checked to make sure the author matched too
< 1524831703 694668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems that the original wasn't in English, this one is a translation
< 1524831719 299342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume it wouldn't have been translated to English if it was already in English)
< 1524832025 678376 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and Knuth gives a reference to a translation
< 1524832056 998026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had interesting experiences in the past with following citations
< 1524832062 913273 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, there's an interesting tradeoff here. I'm not talking about the one how Minsky machines are very easy to implement but not very powerful, but among the more powerful ones:
< 1524832092 13419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I discoverde that everyone was citing a particular book, but they actually just copied a citation from a well-known paper and the thing cited isn't actually there
< 1524832108 596711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not only that, but nobody else had checked at least at my University (it took them a while to find the book in question, and it hadn't been checked out for decades)
< 1524832113 87131 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer machines let you easily define the runtime of a program, at least up to a polylog factor, so you cal tell if an algorithm runs in O(n**(1+epsilon)) time or O(n**(2+epsilon)) time for input of length n;
< 1524832135 354965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that statement about pointer machines seems wrong
< 1524832138 648450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's circular
< 1524832150 691778 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas string replacement machines let you easily define the memory use of a program, but not so much the runtime.
< 1524832153 817997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying "it's easy to define the runtime" whereas what you mean is "it's easy to define the runtime /on a pointer machine/"
< 1524832168 720105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using pointer machines as the reference for runtime implicitly, because your computer is one of those
< 1524832191 951121 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course it is, but I mean it's a useful definition of runtime, as in, one that will correspond nicely (up to a polylog factor) to other more complicated realistic computable models,
< 1524832228 173056 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, pointer machines still aren't the best choice for this, but among the simpler models they are a pretty good choice I think
< 1524832306 581510 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could measure runtime on a Turing-machine or a string-replacement machine or a Minsky-machine, but that's a less useful thing to measure, because the best runtime you get is still too slow for reality
< 1524832344 545610 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing-machines let you measure the runtime up to polynomials, so you can define the class of polynomial runtime algorithms, as in P for decision problems
< 1524832667 235919 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the name of this esolang in Knuth 1.1?
< 1524832725 338500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suddenly realised that the most Knuth content I've read is when he sent me an email
< 1524832732 898697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably not a good thing
< 1524832742 724056 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1524832754 657046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted an updated version of the INTERCAL interpreter
< 1524832773 143295 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean how have you not read a lot of TAOCP or Concrete Mathematics?
< 1524832784 241951 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those books are thick, they're probably thicker than the email he sent you
< 1524832794 215261 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're popular and good
< 1524832797 402809 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should read them
< 1524832803 346930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a book being large doesn't necessarily mean I've read it
< 1524832806 204362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was a short email
< 1524832806 454806 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying they're cheap, but they're worth the money
< 1524832813 378512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "not a good thing" was about not having read TAOCP
< 1524832821 622403 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I don't expect that you've read all of it
< 1524832828 442046 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just expect that you've read some of it
< 1524832838 969761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how would I know which bits to read?
< 1524832858 421449 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a procedure described for that in the introductino of TAOCP
< 1524832867 144352 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for telling which part of TAOCP to read
< 1524832874 56283 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure for Concrete Mathematics
< 1524832901 152882 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/introductino/preface/
< 1524832932 761219 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually sort of a separate section after the preface, called "Procedure for Reading This Set of Books"
< 1524833052 85954 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you can, read the third edition of volume 1 and 2, and the second edition of volume 3, as opposed to older editions; except obviously read the ultimate edition instead when it is published like twenty years from now
< 1524833482 518979 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I'll have to try to understand how rusts's CoerceUnsized works, because currently it sounds like heavily compiler-supported black magic to me that shouldn't have a right to exist, but it probably isn't that
< 1524833797 572545 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? yak
< 1524833798 790630 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yak? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1524833900 804533 :wob_jonas!b03f183f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.63 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1524834034 405005 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524834070 610382 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524834078 229599 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit
< 1524834275 448170 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524835777 356939 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1524835894 156939 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524836638 293218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524836875 172523 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1524836900 685223 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1524838288 387153 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1524839592 335117 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524839901 306023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1524841002 285950 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524841119 883575 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1524841676 961057 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a known esolang based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C-recursive_function ? Got one with binary strings instead of naturals, tell me if you want the description!
< 1524841745 571525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s pretty old, I haven’t thought to dump it to the wiki and I hadn’t even known about this channel
< 1524842295 94368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting it on the wiki sounds like a good plan to me (provided you are okay with the CC0 license)
< 1524842363 617581 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally okay
< 1524842403 549405 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is something like MathJax/KaTeX supported there?
< 1524842584 723133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1524842592 466616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be useful, not sure how easy mathjax is to install
< 1524842602 179233 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhobmqpnotqemclf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524842803 354522 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what code has fungot for Befunge? I have stuck with the captcha :D
< 1524842803 705085 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: so it should be: ( format " fnord" on my site if you want, but it's usually preferred to not have a standard fingerprint implementation
< 1524842826 494482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^be 9386882626>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1524842835 939779 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf 9386882626>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1524842842 338322 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^b 9386882626>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1524842847 697092 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1524842859 419763 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly sure fungot cannot interpret befunge
< 1524842860 6388 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but we'll see. it's still the same as picking the regular search replace in editors. she worked for a contract was done with plt. pgsql or something like the system() function in that program, guess not
< 1524842875 525736 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ow((
< 1524842895 970496 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I’m going to read its page, it seems
> 1524843299 135565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Arseniiv 5*  10New user account
< 1524843322 22295 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha I found js interpreter
< 1524843350 655807 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at first I proceeded manually, but then I got that it would be a long story)
> 1524843958 510566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54929&oldid=54924 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+234) 10introduced myself
< 1524844240 50095 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1524844605 706561 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:3c98:7610:b859:8d98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524845618 330470 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524845780 953580 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524846107 311786 :x86-64!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :risc-v
< 1524846728 478874 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524847968 687160 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524849038 34504 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524850098 776182 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1524850381 869883 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhobmqpnotqemclf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1524850401 890392 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1524850801 409006 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524851582 874269 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kolfrfyudidpdgyu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524852334 158412 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge 9386882626>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1524852335 32587 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :271211889
< 1524852344 12538 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ^
< 1524852458 16294 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you!
< 1524852469 156670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it’s too late)
< 1524852472 553042 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackE{g,s}o was originally conceived to be an esolang interpreting bot like the old EgoBot, but more flexible. alas it got out of hand.
< 1524852494 694452 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help that the actual port of EgoBot's langs doesn't fit well into the rest.
< 1524852526 908238 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas it got out of hand.> aren’t they all? :D
< 1524852541 445404 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it got used for even sillier things instead.
< 1524852616 413099 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rethought the language I’m going to post, and its name will be YEOOIIOOIOA. Maybe someone can deduce what it means, while I’ll be writing the description!
< 1524852643 544449 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the reason fungot cannot interpret befunge despite being written in it is because the obvious way of doing it would allow you to take over the bot
< 1524852643 932687 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eiku joskus. sillon kun ei oo fnord toi on fnord
< 1524852656 16959 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only fizzie is allowed to run that command.
< 1524852659 420683 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that one with binary strings, not ugh… Nora)
< 1524852711 21154 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, fungot is written on Befunge?? :o :o
< 1524852711 432476 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: why? it would be a good idea; how else are you going to use an interpreter: interpreter program note: program can be the value of baz
< 1524852716 997727 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1524852717 118539 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
< 1524852767 394451 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<I have no words>
< 1524852781 226782 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh binary string...
< 1524852870 441555 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOIIOOIO could be L, or possibly 2.
< 1524852893 506382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll guess I’ll be writing the description for several hours, my own notes are quite sparse
< 1524852929 494124 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's 2, or more specifically "2", as there is a mechanism to interpret it as a number, and it will be 0x132
< 1524853391 568690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I format inline code by using <tt>...</tt> or some other thing?
< 1524853401 223358 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/am/do
< 1524853651 446168 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: <code>...</code> is the usual way
< 1524853724 120392 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t there a distinction between inline code and a block? ok
< 1524853740 905396 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, blocks can be done in two different ways
< 1524853764 650153 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :either indent all lines with 1 space, or use <pre>...</pre>
< 1524853818 209356 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<code> is inline, not a block
< 1524853880 324108 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it
< 1524854365 269485 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see Esolang:Help
< 1524854380 288064 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524854515 515342 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks!
< 1524854588 74640 :MildSpecter!~androirc@117.5.175.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524855070 711892 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: why did jay-z start selling ice cream?
< 1524855782 609575 :risc-v!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :firepaw
< 1524855790 321751 :firepaw!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :risc-v
< 1524855915 568822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I fixed ff-composite.c now, did anyone make tests?
< 1524856172 603348 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :semiconductor
< 1524856230 515125 :semiconductor!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1524856524 941516 :MildSpecter!~androirc@117.5.175.35 PART #esoteric :"Quit"
< 1524856613 34258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my idea of Scientific Role Playing System? There are difference from GURPS, such as in GURPS I think the points are too coarse, so SciRPS has less coarse. Also, instead of zero level being human level as in GURPS, the zero is nothing (although the human template is included in the book). There is powers and skills.
< 1524856728 237119 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skills will have both the potential level and the actual level, and some skills may be worth different number of points. Attributes are also skills. Powers can have modifiers with a "layer system"; there can be many different kind of powers, such as normal powers (vision, flying, claws, poison bite, walking, etc) and special powers (such as magical and psychic powers).
< 1524857075 456468 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1524857181 378885 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1524857316 662290 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:3c98:7610:b859:8d98 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1524857334 699882 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524857995 431529 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524858844 410317 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, ice cream is good
< 1524859475 424645 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1524859873 748505 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1524859983 49883 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kolfrfyudidpdgyu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1524860151 989016 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524860164 345533 :risc-v!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :x86-64
< 1524861244 203947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I’m now come to the heart of the issue and am writing about expression semantics
< 1524861276 120673 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have came*
< 1524862102 690928 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524863295 763138 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: he sells ice cream because he has 99 problems
< 1524863310 928380 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1524863638 568336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: happy vappu
< 1524863773 348638 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524863776 905871 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: great, I'll test it
< 1524863928 658339 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-190-54-129.range86-190.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1524864770 281484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Glada vappen.
< 1524864923 369016 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1524864950 188876 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
> 1524865003 31405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03E 5*  10New user account
< 1524865032 416389 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524865092 734764 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1524865139 276387 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524865455 400506 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why are ffpbm and pbmff not named ffpnm and pnmff instead?
< 1524866037 112238 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1524866241 503456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54930&oldid=54929 5* 03E 5* (+379) 10me
> 1524866270 650446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:E14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54931 5* 03E 5* (+5) 10Created page with "fnord"
< 1524866628 959752 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1524867025 163903 :wob_jonas!b03f18b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.178 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1524867212 760745 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't know; that is just what I did at first. Maybe ffpnm/pnmff might have been better, but I won't change it now.
< 1524867357 388162 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524867443 569971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly, because they called it Netpbm, even though there are other Netpbm formats too, is probably why I did that.)
< 1524867615 216468 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524868189 884668 :wob_jonas!b03f1892@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524868309 325036 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1524868470 885103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to answer your question
< 1524868540 522385 :wob_jonas!b03f1892@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1524868561 468631 :x86-64!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moony
< 1524868810 705195 :wob_jonas!b03f1892@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: gcc warns that the chan global variable is unused in ff-back.c and ff-matrix.c
< 1524868870 834731 :wob_jonas!b03f1892@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.146 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1524869056 952162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct; I removed that global variables
< 1524869147 839673 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suffers from today's alt texkcdt puns. ow.
< 1524869374 65804 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1524869533 912665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh cutting a pizza into a spiral sounds tedious
< 1524869604 764981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, perhaps, you use an industrial strength record player
< 1524869817 892974 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szddajcytmmitdxe JOIN :#esoteric
> 1524869986 502894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YEOOIIOOIOA14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54932 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+10156) 10at last
> 1524870097 13349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YEOOIIOOIOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54933&oldid=54932 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (-2) 10link to Wikipedia is now fixed
< 1524870178 878794 :sparr__!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 NICK :sparr
> 1524870700 468146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arseniiv14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54934 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+63) 10let there be a page
> 1524871418 37678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YEOOIIOOIOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54935&oldid=54933 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (-6) 10typos and minor things
< 1524871480 786086 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I add to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list or categorization is enough?
< 1524871893 211061 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1524872587 517963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions Unicode, although Unicode seems irrelevant to the specification, since they are just byte strings, whether they represent Unicode characters or something else, it seem like
< 1524872918 600177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it’s all byte strings, but for I/O I think it’s useful to treat them like UTF-8-encoded somethings
< 1524872981 672679 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ASCII-encoded; Hello, world example utilizes at least that
> 1524873075 5859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YEOOIIOOIOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54936&oldid=54935 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+1) 10there was ANSI instead of ASCII, what have I thought?
< 1524873125 396204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although you can leave the encoding up to the user; it might not even be text, but rather a picture (in farbfeld or Sixel format, perhaps), or audio, or non-Unicode text. If it is UTF-8 then of course it should not contain any invalid UTF-8 characters, but if it isn't, then it can be anything. Due to this, possibly also, an empty bit string becomes empty output, too.
< 1524873144 371862 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that ASCII is a subset of Unicode, so I am not counting it as "non-Unicode text" for the purpose of the above.)
< 1524873283 189102 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.172.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you’re right in that I overspecified what I/O there could be, I’ll edit