00:00:03 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in). 00:00:22 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:25:05 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:26:26 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:41:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:45:15 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:53:08 -!- LKoen has joined. 01:57:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:40:15 -!- Canaimero-ram has joined. 02:41:01 -!- Canaimero-ram has left. 02:52:41 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:11:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:19:48 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:20:04 -!- tromp has joined. 03:22:16 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:22:49 -!- tromp has joined. 03:23:25 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:26:18 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:27:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:44:51 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:57:17 -!- tromp has joined. 04:01:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:39:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:49:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:12:50 -!- tromp has joined. 05:17:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:30:02 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:36:57 -!- APic has joined. 05:57:09 [[Talk:The Waterfall Model]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54287 * Oerjan * (+1891) Full Minsky machine 06:07:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:19:47 -!- augur has joined. 06:24:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:24:23 -!- tromp has joined. 06:28:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:46:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:57:13 -!- Guest6451 has joined. 06:59:05 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:02:21 -!- tromp has joined. 07:06:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:35:32 -!- tromp has joined. 07:50:01 -!- LKoen has joined. 08:09:48 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:30:32 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 08:31:15 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:36:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:51 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 08:49:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:10:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:13:03 OMG 09:13:06 we need a blockchain language 09:13:13 and a cryptocurrency language 09:13:19 time to design something based on a merkle tree 09:13:22 * variable has idea 09:36:14 OK 09:36:19 You can try 09:48:33 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:48:50 -!- Guest6451 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:48:57 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest49955. 09:57:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 12:04:57 brainchain incomming 12:05:58 while on our operating system course, two students and i thought about making IPC in our OS via blockchain, because why the fuck not 12:08:24 i am quite unsure wether brainchain or blockfuck would be a better name for a blockchained brainfuck 12:39:54 -!- excalibas has joined. 12:41:03 -!- excalibas has left ("Ex-Chat"). 12:52:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:57:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:02:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:08:44 myname: you may be interested in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 13:10:12 well, that's why i'm here 13:11:02 Oh, I thought this was a different channel. 13:11:03 My bad. 13:21:23 still looking for ideas for a master thesis, though 14:08:56 -!- Naergon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:11:42 -!- Naergon has joined. 14:56:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:57:12 -!- mniip has quit (Quit: This page is intentionally left blank.). 14:57:35 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:57:37 -!- vertrex has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:57:37 -!- joast has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:57:39 -!- vertrex- has joined. 14:57:41 -!- mniip has joined. 14:57:59 -!- ocharles has joined. 15:03:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:31:20 -!- joast has joined. 15:36:44 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:50:14 -!- erkin has joined. 16:02:05 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 16:02:27 I made a repository of the files for Free Hero Mesh so far it is http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui/dir?ci=tip It is not yet completed, but is there in case someone may wish to make comments/complaints of it please. 16:37:14 -!- vertrex- has changed nick to vertrex. 16:52:40 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:57:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:03:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:06:56 -!- augur has joined. 18:33:58 -!- Cale_ has joined. 18:46:48 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:56:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:00:04 b_jonas: so I think we can't use Wild Cantor as there's no way to bring its toughness up to 3 without changing its creature type (the problem is that in order to trigger a Hungry Lynx to put +1/+1 counters on it, we'd need to sacrifice another creature, but we only have one Wild Cantor and we can't make a token of it because the opponent could just sacrifie the token) 19:00:25 however there are other similar creatures with higher toughness, e.g. Composite Golem, which we can use instead 19:00:28 `card-by-name Composite Golem 19:00:29 Composite Golem \ 6 \ Artifact Creature -- Golem \ 4/4 \ Sacrifice Composite Golem: Add {W}{U}{B}{R}{G} to your mana pool. \ 5DN-U, 10E-U 19:02:46 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:02:48 -!- Cale_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:03:17 ais523: that makes sense (replace Wild Cantor with larger toughness creature) 19:03:20 9 cards:‎ CREATURE/TRIBAL: Hungry Lynx, Rotlung Reanimator, Noxious Ghoul, (Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite), Composite Golem, Shields of Velis Vel, INSTANT: Artificial Evolution, SORCERY: Fractured Identity, Coax from the Blind Eternities 19:03:29 right 19:03:51 and the change shouldn't affect anything else other than it now doesn't die to -2/-2 effects 19:04:00 (which we need to kill the token that's serving as the clock) 19:05:28 actually, noxious ghoul is an etb trigger, not death trigger, so in theory we could trigger it with a different creature to get the +1/+1 counters on the Cantor, but just switching to something with ≥3 toughness is so much simpler 19:05:34 and yes, Composite Golem is a bit unusual. I've seen that creature because it's in tenth ed, but I wouldn't have been able to list any mana-producing creature with toughness over 2, because they're impractical 19:06:14 (Except Joraga Treespeaker, but that doesn't work) 19:06:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:06:55 yes, but that doesn't help, you wanted a mana ability so you can start the loop while a split second spell is on the stack 19:06:59 `card-by-name carven caryatid 19:07:01 Carven Caryatid \ 1GG \ Creature -- Spirit \ 2/5 \ Defender (This creature can't attack.) \ When Carven Caryatid enters the battlefield, draw a card. \ RAV-U 19:07:09 wati, not that one 19:07:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:07:17 there was some well-known expensive mana elf with high toughness 19:07:23 but it doesn't sacrifice, like the Golem does 19:07:28 but not just 2 toughness? 19:07:36 I know several with 2 toughness, they just don't get much play 19:08:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 19:08:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:09:53 I haven't had any ideas for saving a further card from the combo 19:10:58 that doesn't bother me as much as that we still don't know if there's a small enough Amnesiac machine for turing-completeness 19:11:17 there probably is, but actually finding one will be hard 19:11:38 just an encoding of the Collatz problem or similar would probably fit 19:12:09 and that's what you'd want in the tournament setting, because it's simpler than explaining ten levels of reduction for why your crazy machine is Turing-complete 19:12:26 but I'd like a Turing-completeness proof for outside the tournament setting 19:12:58 -!- augur has joined. 19:12:59 and I think if you try to transform that fractran machine with the easy reductions, it will get too large 19:14:17 Collatz actually doesn't work 19:14:20 oh right, I'm stupid 19:14:23 you can't brute-force it 19:14:33 because it'd lead to an infinite loop whether the result is true or false 19:14:52 I'm currently favouring the Lychrel conjecture (probably in base 3 rather than base 10) 19:14:55 ais523: yes, it's not Sigma-1. but you can still make a version that nobody can answer 19:15:21 because unlike with the Collatz conjecture (where every number that's been checked is known to not be a counterexample) 19:15:52 the Lychrel conjecture has small numbers that are believed to be counterexamples (196 in base 10; 10201₃ = 100₁₀ in base 10) 19:15:59 *the Lychrel conjecture has small numbers that are believed to be counterexamples (196 in base 10; 10201₃ = 100₁₀ in base 3) 19:16:13 and Minsky machines are actually really good at reversing the digits in numbers 19:17:30 hmm no.. that doesn't work. I was wondering if Basal Sliver worked, to give another creature a sacrifice mana ability, since we already have other large creatures. but it doesn't work because, like you say, the opponent could sacrifice a creature then. 19:18:13 yep 19:18:22 it's really hard to prevent your opponent activating mana abilities 19:19:42 and we need specifically a sacrificing one, on a creature or tribal, or else a bigger combo that results in sacrifice, and those are much fewer. we can't just use Manaweft Sliver or Paradise Mantle 19:20:50 let me look up this Lychrel conjecture 19:22:25 ais523: ok, but do you have evidence that in base 3 it's a hard problem? 19:22:40 no, but there is evidence that it's a problem that's both known and unsolved 19:22:58 it doesn't need to be hard, so much as something that mathematicians have failed to solve 19:23:05 and would it encode smaller than the Goldbach conjecture? 19:26:30 I suspect so 19:26:36 a primality tester is going to be quite large 19:27:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:28:25 ais523: since y'all don't seem to have noticed yet, let me point at my simplified direct-from-minsky construction on the wiki. 19:28:54 * oerjan is just passing by 19:30:29 oerjan: is it just simplified, or does it provide a more golfed output? I've read ais's simple Minsky to Amnesiac and Amnesiac to Waterfall constructions, and he was right, they are not only simple but provide a small enough output, especially if you remove useless variables 19:30:47 oerjan: also, do you have a link? 19:31:15 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:The_Waterfall_Model ? 19:32:15 oerjan: I noticed 19:32:18 just didn't reply 19:32:36 it is simpler than the construction that goes via TAFM, though 19:32:56 because it scales linearly off the number of decrements rather than quadratically off the number of increments 19:33:23 I'll look then 19:33:54 I think going directly to TAFM helps if you have actions that result in large chains of increments on multiple variables 19:34:27 but even from Minsky machines, that's sort of an optimziation step, because the Minsky doesn't directly store such a chain 19:34:47 And this is a real world issue, because such chains are how a Minsky machine can copy a value 19:37:22 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:38:12 the construction _sort_ of assumes all large chains of unconditionals can be collapsed by inlining if you want. 19:38:46 because addition is really a single step, not just increment. 19:39:34 oh and you can do several in parallel. 19:39:53 -!- erkin has joined. 19:40:09 oerjan: yes 19:41:49 as for proving TC-ness with a small number of clocks, i think BCT shouldn't be too large if you store the program as a hardcoded binary or ternary number. 19:42:09 a queue is annoyingly hard to do in a minsky machine 19:42:15 I think you'd need the two-stacks construction 19:43:15 indeed, which made we wonder: is BCT still TC if you use two stacks instead of the data queue, and just swap them when they run out? 19:43:41 (the program is not a problem because you can just reinstate the hardcoded constant) 19:45:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 19:45:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:46:31 in Waterfall, how cheaply can you divide with a literal and get both the reminder and the divisor 19:46:37 ? 19:46:41 because that's what you need for a stack 19:47:25 you can destructively replace a clock with a divmod-by-constant using a clock to store remainder, a clock to store the quotient, a clock for control, and the original 19:47:29 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:48:09 although I think the remainder clock ends up inverted (i.e. it contains divisor-remainder, not the remainder directly) 19:48:17 I don't mind two (or more) stacks, I think that's more natural than a tape where you can't cut and paste elements in the middle. People just started using a tape because it corresponds much more to realistic hardware, and this was almost always true, the sole exception being mercury delay lines 19:49:13 however you need both a multiply and a divide to make a stack work 19:49:34 meaning that you'll probably need to store it in two clocks (which always have almost the same value) rather than one, allowing you to customize what happens when it hits zero 19:49:56 ais523: yes, but I want division by constant not only for stacks, but also for these number theoretic problems like the Lychrel conjecture 19:50:22 or for decoding a large constant that we put in the starting state 19:50:34 like, you know, those big constants in quines 19:50:56 yes 19:51:16 divmod isn't really too hard, you have a "slow clock" that resets to the divisor whenever it hits 0, and adds 1 to the quotient each time it does so 19:51:32 and also keeps a copy of its own value in another clock, that stores the remainder 19:51:46 then when the value you're divmodding hits 0, you're done 19:51:56 and as for multiplication, I think multiplication by a *compile-time constant* is quite cheap in Waterfall 19:52:02 (the slow clock that's controlling the process also bumps all the clocks you aren't using) 19:52:10 (so that their value stays approximately constant) 19:52:21 (cheap in the number of clocks) 19:53:28 right, a clock can do that for itself, so you just need a clock to serve as the output 19:53:42 (also remembering that if you want to be able to use one clock for multiple purposes, you need to duplicate it) 19:54:07 actually, no it can't, I'm confused 19:54:10 you need an extra control clock 19:54:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 19:56:39 -!- xkapastel has joined. 20:03:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:08:35 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 20:25:14 -!- jaboja64 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:27:54 in M:tG, why are there no parenthesis in the text boxof this token-thingy printed by WotC: https://media.wizards.com/2018/a25/en_ak0QBpuIOt.png 20:29:41 [[Wierd Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54288&oldid=54270 * Singingbanana * (+1) 20:30:15 [[Wierd Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54289&oldid=54288 * Singingbanana * (+1) 20:42:12 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...). 20:54:46 [[Wierd Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54290&oldid=54289 * Singingbanana * (+0) 20:57:43 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54291&oldid=54272 * Singingbanana * (+0) 21:06:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:42:56 <\oren\_> I think there is some sort of unwritten rule that says fake milk like almond and stuff can't come in bags 21:59:14 \oren\: huh what? and what does "bags" mean? 22:01:29 -!- boily has joined. 22:05:23 fungot: nostril. 22:05:24 boily: neil fnord ( a b): ' u' are the same and act the same in scsh? or did it all himself 22:06:20 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:08:55 -!- augur_ has joined. 22:11:58 `? nostril 22:11:59 nostril? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:12:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:13:14 `? k 22:13:15 K K K Ken 22:13:23 ``` echo wisdom/? 22:13:24 wisdom/ wisdom/! wisdom/* wisdom/1 wisdom/7 wisdom/8 wisdom/9 wisdom/? wisdom/@ wisdom/\ wisdom/^ wisdom/` wisdom/a wisdom/b wisdom/c wisdom/d wisdom/e wisdom/i wisdom/k wisdom/l wisdom/o wisdom/p wisdom/q wisdom/s wisdom/w wisdom/y 22:13:30 hmm 22:13:38 `? 22:13:40 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:13:50 ``` \? \ 22:13:51 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:13:57 what's that first one? 22:14:03 ``` echo wisdom/? | cat -A 22:14:04 wisdom/ wisdom/! wisdom/* wisdom/1 wisdom/7 wisdom/8 wisdom/9 wisdom/? wisdom/@ wisdom/\ wisdom/^ wisdom/` wisdom/a wisdom/b wisdom/c wisdom/d wisdom/e wisdom/i wisdom/k wisdom/l wisdom/o wisdom/p wisdom/q wisdom/s wisdom/w wisdom/y$ 22:14:35 ``` head -v wisdom/\ 22:14:36 head: error reading 'wisdom/': Is a directory \ ==> wisdom/ <== 22:14:42 what the 22:14:56 ``` ls -aF wisdom/\ 22:14:57 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 22:15:09 ``` /bin/ls -aF wisdom/\ 22:15:10 ​ \ ! \ #esoteric \ #esoteric-blah \ #programming \ * \ ./ \ ../ \ .doorstop \ 1 \ 1*1 \ 10 \ 1337 \ 21 \ 2600 \ 323 \ 42 \ 4chan \ 4rn4 \ 5318008 \ 6 random numbers \ 7 \ 8/ \ 9 \ =@ccc \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ @messages-loud \ XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR \ \ \ \oren\ \ ^ \ _46bit \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ 22:15:19 ``` /bin/ls -ld wisdom/\ 22:15:20 drwxr-xr-x 8 5000 0 40960 Mar 2 03:42 wisdom/ 22:15:27 I don't get it 22:15:30 ``` /bin/ls -ld wisdom/\ 22:15:32 drwxr-xr-x 8 5000 0 40960 Mar 2 03:42 wisdom/ 22:15:39 ``` /bin/ls -ld wisdom/\ # 22:15:40 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 20 Oct 28 2016 wisdom/ 22:15:52 `? ! 22:15:53 ​! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems. 22:16:02 heh 22:16:04 `? * 22:16:06 Twinkle, twinkle, little star! 22:16:08 `? 1 22:16:11 The 1 is just for disambiguation. 22:16:15 `? 7 22:16:16 7 is one third of the half of the answer. Also a somewhat popular reformed Borg drone. 22:16:24 `? 8 22:16:25 cat: 8: Is a directory 22:16:25 `? 9 22:16:26 9 is a free smalltalk. 22:16:41 `? ? 22:16:42 ​? is wisdom 22:16:42 `? @ 22:16:44 `? \ 22:16:45 ​@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. 22:16:46 `? ^ 22:16:46 ​\ was initially popular as a replacement for the solidus, but inevitably there was a backslash. 22:16:47 ​^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator. 22:16:48 `? ` 22:16:50 ​` is the prefix to greatness. 22:17:12 `? a 22:17:13 A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. 22:17:48 `1 for w in b c d e i k l o p q s w y; do \? "$w"; done 22:17:56 1/4:B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether. \ C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault \ D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language. \ e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player. \ I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM \ K 22:18:19 `dowg e 22:18:28 9176:2016-10-05 slwd e//s/E/e/ \ 9170:2016-10-05 slwd e//s/$/. E is not known to be an Agora player./ \ 9166:2016-10-05 learn e is a freenode admin \ 4234:2013-12-26 rm -rf wisdom/e \ 3958:2013-10-30 mkdir wisdom/e; ln -s wisdom/e/e wisdom/e; echo f >wisdom/e/f 22:18:32 `n 22:18:33 2/4: K K Ken \ L is far too short to be a village in Wales. \ o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of st 22:19:00 `n 22:19:01 3/4:umble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, essentially, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order, so they get their personal problems taken care of before the final battle. And it's a comedy. \ P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by red 22:19:07 `n 22:19:08 4/4:uction to NP. \ Q is a function Q : Vowel -> Phon that accepts a vowel V as its argument and yields [k] concatenated with the semivowel form of V \ Esses are confusing. \ A w is everything a cow isn't. \ Y is a commune in France. There's nothing funny about this. 22:21:09 There are SIX villages in Norway called Å? 22:24:27 `learn A is one of seven villages in Norway. The BBC invented them by not understanding things on top of letters. 22:24:29 Relearned 'i': A is one of seven villages in Norway. The BBC invented them by not understanding things on top of letters. 22:24:37 NO! 22:24:40 `revert 22:24:41 Done. 22:24:49 `slashlearn A//A is one of seven villages in Norway. The BBC invented them by not understanding things on top of letters. 22:24:52 Relearned 'a': A is one of seven villages in Norway. The BBC invented them by not understanding things on top of letters. 22:25:18 `? i 22:25:21 I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM 22:29:45 -!- AisRauli has joined. 22:32:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:33 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:36:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:47:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:55:30 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:04:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 23:06:59 `? b_jonas 23:07:00 b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. 23:07:26 something about not exploding the sun? 23:07:29 `? int-e 23:07:30 int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. 23:09:30 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:15:48 helloily 23:15:59 hows your last week of june? 23:18:07 QUINTHELLOP1A! 23:18:23 it is made of June? 23:35:35 boily: when is montriichi? 23:37:02 hellorcah! September, either 2nd or 3rd weekend. not definitive, but on the verge of. 23:37:26 also, riichester was nice! 26th place, but fun tournament! 23:41:47 https://twitter.com/edwinbrady/status/970796084544069633 23:44:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MARKED CHICKEN).