< 1519862401 604395 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in songs, which is strange < 1519862442 347638 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is also the question of how much a literary corpus stabilizes the language < 1519862482 565993 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do we know whther english language change has slowed down since the rise of literacy? < 1519862534 162315 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :french is still wirtten the way frech was spoken a long time ago right? < 1519862568 730879 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its possible it can't drift beyond a certain distance from the wirtten form < 1519862625 545817 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with modern telecoms and internet, languages are drifting closer together. < 1519862631 484318 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yes, but it's not just drifting randomly, it's a filter layer of systematic simple changes over the written form < 1519862643 226763 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :written French is completely different from spoken French. < 1519862663 788410 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: of course it is. spoken french is horrible and hard to understand. < 1519862697 844953 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :saint, sain, sains, saints, sein, seins < 1519862699 621391 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have enough clues to be able to tell where the words end or what speakers are even saying < 1519862716 443886 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write, right, rite, wright < 1519862762 934001 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seau, sceau, sot, saut... < 1519862765 8694 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wr-r merger is over a pretty rare sound though? < 1519862804 80385 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most common problem I see with english orthography is the ough < 1519862815 451067 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just deleted that wisdom entry, but the list is: write, wrong, wrist, wrap, wreck, wrest, wrestle, wriggle, wrinkle, wrath, wraith, wreath, wrangle, wren, wright, wrought, wring, writ, writhe, wry < 1519862827 501597 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of words starting with wr < 1519862855 714840 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and most don't have conterparts in r- < 1519862865 280474 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most? let me see < 1519862948 866845 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rite, rap, rec, rest, right, rot, ring, rye < 1519862976 198826 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8/20 < 1519863048 553280 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kn is rarer though < 1519863091 242256 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1519863094 805880 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the ones that have are probably write/right/rite/wright, wrap/rap, wrest/rest, wring/ring, wry/rye, *wrought/rote only if you speak in a Hungarian accent that can't distinguish between the two long o sounds < 1519863125 457774 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, "rot" if you speak that sort of English accent < 1519863135 931527 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yeah < 1519863137 600997 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rec"... ok < 1519863148 490090 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek, the rec room < 1519863218 995570 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gonqviwdjyvjobjs JOIN :#esoteric < 1519863239 913785 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kn list is: know, knife, knock, knee, knight, knob, knot, knit, knack, knout, knuckle < 1519863278 702041 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the gn words have homophones too: gnaw, gnash, gnome, gnu, gnat < 1519863284 761386 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :knave, < 1519863302 361967 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, why is knave not on my list? < 1519863306 669960 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :knelt < 1519863326 898775 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"knelt" as in the past tense of "kneel"? < 1519863339 240817 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i wonder if kneel is related to knee < 1519863346 574045 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it does < 1519863414 660891 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add "knave" to the list now < 1519863534 379657 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently old english also had a "mn" sound that merged into "m" < 1519863594 1200 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: really? I assumed it wasn't really much of a sound in old English, it just appears in that one greek loanword and the lazy English don't bother pronouncing it, same as with the six or so ps- words < 1519863654 584846 :alercah_!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah NICK :alercah < 1519863708 942236 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's also "sw" < 1519863746 65725 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? but isn't sw just pronounced as both consonants one after the other? < 1519863751 144412 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in words like "swift" < 1519863754 452491 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in sword < 1519863781 44867 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that one stupid word. but that's not for this list, because it's not the initial consonant that's dropped < 1519863787 721839 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1519863802 718291 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an inconvenient consonant in the middle, that's much less strange to me than dropping the very first sound < 1519863811 258381 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also answer < 1519863819 316436 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ansr < 1519863852 14600 :augur!~augur@2600:380:857f:7443:4405:6dbd:59be:9af8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519863858 915016 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: dunno, I can't pronounce "w" properly anyway, so I'm just happy with words where I don't have to pronounce it < 1519863926 169891 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Hungarian, so few words have the "w" sound that teachers are in a denial that it even exists, and the spelling doesn't reveal when you're supposed to pronounce one, sort of like in french, only in french it's very common, but in hungarian we only get it in words of greek origin < 1519863995 168575 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so crazy I'm sometimes even wondering if I should start to use a nonstandard spelling for those words < 1519864052 557694 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english people often try to spell words and spell a different word that sounds similar < 1519864071 397440 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like defiantly versus definitely < 1519864094 12808 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if that became a fully general trend < 1519864115 84557 :wob_jonas!b03f0d5f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.13.95 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1519864124 381411 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519864126 838859 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a class of errors that native speakers commit more frequently < 1519864149 761465 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since other people are more likely to remember the written form < 1519864156 445386 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sign" vs "sine" is an example < 1519864175 878653 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"know" vs "no" even more so probably < 1519864192 710284 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1519864210 979368 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look up what was the error of possibly this kind that I recently made < 1519864342 239219 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it. damn < 1519864353 871428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Westlake's "Dortmunder" books use "could of" instead of "could have" in dialogue, though I'm pretty sure that's intentional. < 1519864447 188487 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's another very common one < 1519864467 723485 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519864667 463743 :wob_jonas!b03f192b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.43 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1519864793 960079 :Cale_!~cale@static-108-30-103-216.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519865404 84568 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:90b9:85bc:8417:7ada JOIN :#esoteric < 1519866790 709067 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:90b9:85bc:8417:7ada QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519866849 69478 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:24a4:ba63:9a5f:c155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519867255 667866 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519867374 49543 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayynsvunpgevicen QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1519867676 670799 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1519867839 721150 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:24a4:ba63:9a5f:c155 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519868322 418885 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1519868803 766305 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1519868948 36601 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1519868955 868945 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:qdb//qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat \ music//The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. \ astronomy//Astronomy is the study of stars, such as Julia Child and Gordon Ramsay, typically through long-dista < 1519868957 10446 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1519868957 648219 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:nce viewing devices. Despite the name, it does not involve the study of the astrointestinal tract. \ lem//Stanisław Lem was a Polish logician who discovered the law of excluded middle. \ fish//Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. < 1519869010 592556 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION trout slaps fungot < 1519869011 6654 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i doubt it would make linguine insecure one just in case... the hd doesn't get warm in mine, meaning i have physical memory? :) taken me all night < 1519869295 118946 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:647a:a0ca:a4c9:9ffa JOIN :#esoteric < 1519869297 394829 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:647a:a0ca:a4c9:9ffa QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519871034 439848 :sleffy!~sleffy@184.250.63.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519871375 406684 :sleffy!~sleffy@184.250.63.235 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519871922 839584 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ACROBATIC CHICKEN < 1519873456 11493 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1519873623 68045 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519873640 668293 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-sctukdmxiugrmrqh QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1519874600 609951 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gonqviwdjyvjobjs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1519875473 5367 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519876063 77407 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519877371 438023 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1519877891 292063 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519878302 536399 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519879327 788348 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1519880194 19765 :augur!~augur@2600:380:453b:c5bc:c902:7743:a101:c647 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519883408 676307 :LeoLambda!~Leo@li263-173.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1519883808 141378 :LeoLambda!Leo@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe3e:12c3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519885702 944765 :augur!~augur@2600:380:453b:c5bc:c902:7743:a101:c647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1519885980 649924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Peril 5* 10New user account > 1519886354 478966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54256&oldid=54252 5* 03Peril 5* (+268) 10/* Introductions */ > 1519886992 637432 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54257&oldid=51207 5* 03Peril 5* (+520) 10There are probably way better ways of doing what I did, but I figured it out by myself in under a minute and I thought I ought to add it to the page. < 1519887823 120277 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1519887908 933876 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1519888028 649256 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1519888377 634335 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1519889633 105760 :mniip!mniip@haskell/developer/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519890033 122263 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519890642 98082 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1519891583 785742 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1519891847 261078 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1519893753 15575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519894593 767554 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-sllbxusrqdohhtvf JOIN :#esoteric < 1519895538 991148 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519895566 674202 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0 < 1519895626 380143 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1519895874 18610 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519896673 312410 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1519897415 48771 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1519898263 135808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1519898765 487047 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519903293 52959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519904003 968476 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1519904155 935522 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519904193 666149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#metar lowi < 1519904197 632641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1519904198 661197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 011120Z 26011KT 9999 BKN080 BKN300 01/M08 Q1003 WS R26 R08/19//94 NOSIG < 1519904236 448935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoilly < 1519904727 334926 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello! < 1519904729 395337 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :01! < 1519904740 789918 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1519904741 637612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive, isn't it < 1519904741 654507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 011100Z 21005KT 5SM BR FEW001 OVC048 01/00 A2992 RMK SF2SC6 SLP133 < 1519904777 233195 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, much more humid < 1519904977 480306 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very humid. < 1519904980 118917 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519907100 174889 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SPACESHIP CHICKEN < 1519908268 711758 :lldd!~n@129.79.117.91.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1519911426 872199 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519912193 45049 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519913254 885030 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1519914003 873447 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519914541 135599 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519914567 921407 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cpu cooling fan is making some ugly noise. < 1519914569 683684 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1519914686 99419 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a language aims to be the exact opposite of an esolang, does that make it esoteric in its own right? < 1519914698 931152 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :context: I'm trying to create a language that exists as the common subset semantically of most popular programming languages (with its own syntax) < 1519914705 916373 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compiles into all of them < 1519914732 48946 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that if you're not sure what language to write a program in, but it's relatively straightforward and imperative and doesn't depend on libraries < 1519914738 774209 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can start in this and then move into a different language later < 1519914743 676110 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 QUIT :Client Quit < 1519914766 208749 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519914783 486315 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really get around to writing the befunge compiler I designed < 1519914829 311826 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 or -98? < 1519914832 426270 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn it into a graph, merge sequences of movements around the graph, then do various splits and combines to translate it into a more normal looking program < 1519914838 197763 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some people have tried for -93 < 1519914842 350643 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1519914843 571640 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you had > x it'd just turn into x < 1519914850 531471 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you pretty much have to ban the p/g commands < 1519914863 752043 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and > x > y just turns into a single 'xy' command, etc < 1519914866 152211 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get my drift < 1519914904 457692 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd need to be possible to statically determine if any cell was reachable or not so you could form the correct graph, but I don't think there's anything stopping that < 1519914952 258864 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the main things stopping it are the ability to p over cells to change them into control flow commands < 1519914966 963663 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in befunge-98, things like k can cause problems too < 1519914968 547500 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might just be able to recompile < 1519914980 424189 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop into an interp after it happens and JIT it < 1519914982 53340 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Befunge JIT? that'd make some sort of sense < 1519914994 66949 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like the sort of idea that'd likely have been done already, but maybe not? < 1519915001 589086 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like the idea of a befunge compiler < 1519915009 444713 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nobody does anything crazy it can probably get native speeds < 1519915016 688498 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, because the whole intent was to be impossible to compile < 1519915027 942703 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you use the CPU stack as the Befunge value stack? < 1519915040 204666 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe not < 1519915043 369728 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't think of a better use for it because you don't have function calls) < 1519915049 327843 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you could just not use it at all < 1519915050 245841 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :might just reserve r14 as a base for the stack into a mmap region < 1519915058 257413 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get to pick the abi afterall < 1519915066 391486 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I hate modern x86_64 encoding < 1519915070 472274 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1519915072 951243 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many bytes for even simple operations < 1519915089 330402 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge doesn't have function calls, from memory, so maybe that could just be rsp < 1519915137 938124 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 doesn't < 1519915149 491986 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for -98, I don't think they're in the core commands but there's probably a fingerprint that does them < 1519915242 656637 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a SAT solver to do p and g without storing a grid in memory I feel < 1519915252 232594 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1519915310 704171 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so basically a Sufficiently Smart Compiler? < 1519915314 92073 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world doesn't have enough of those < 1519915314 163528 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1519915325 928214 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you compile p to some x,y as a mov to some register, and g x,y of the same gets it back, but you have the problem of knowing which g aligns to which p, so you'd ideally want it pre-solved so that it was just slotted < 1519915328 594876 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should work more on SSAPMMN some time < 1519915352 953579 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be an optimiser for Minsky machines that makes the programs run as fast as programs in more normal languages (ideally even faster) < 1519915359 745974 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't solve it you'd have to have the grid in memory < 1519915368 356763 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519915447 104278 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e for something like &&p or &&g < 1519915456 717218 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, as for that, see https://pts.50.hu/muzcat-mini-latest.tar.gz which is written in such a common subset and compiles to like ten different languages < 1519915458 696575 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is comparable to the much easier problem for Underload < 1519915458 945637 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you could collapse that grid to a hash table or something) < 1519915465 830089 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of working out which strings are data and which are code (and which are both!) < 1519915491 175559 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: is there a non-tarball link for this sort of thing? or should I just check it later when I'm not at work? < 1519915497 16056 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Olvashat%C3%B3 was sort of trying to be like that, only as a common subset of side-effect-free languages < 1519915499 768156 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an existing language like this would be useful < 1519915503 774269 :Wooble!~Wooble@unaffiliated/wooble JOIN :#esoteric < 1519915509 857372 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a non-tarball link < 1519915530 547546 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be something like github-import-gz button to click on the web somewhere < 1519915543 682434 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooble: job for you < 1519915549 126336 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a somewhat inefficient gzip decompressor, written as a C preprocessor file where certain preprocessor macros expand to different constructors for different languages, < 1519915560 285470 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there's a post-processing phase to handle the indentation in python < 1519915572 862660 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some docs about how the multi-language part works < 1519915581 160719 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds abhorrant, I love it < 1519915585 68411 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: come to think of it, something like that would be helpful for ayacc < 1519915590 139708 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not completely formalized < 1519915591 890803 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses a similar technique < 1519915602 724023 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally we'd have readable output in every language, though < 1519915613 408224 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some languages aren't very suited to imperative code < 1519915618 263033 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most abuse I did of a compiler this month was to write a script for blender to export 3D models as .c files, then compile them into my project < 1519915622 724559 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hardly even counts < 1519915623 396052 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some constructs that work the same in all languages used, such as the + - * infix arithmetic syntax, aren't hidden behind the preprocessor < 1519915624 313386 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to be pretty ugly in Prolog, for example < 1519915639 968529 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's the problem with prolog < 1519915652 568372 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is really unique < 1519915653 880560 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Olvasható didn't bother with mutable storage < 1519915655 373383 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will it support befunge < 1519915659 244546 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Brachylog changed the way I think about pogramming < 1519915660 56778 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only portable prolog < 1519915662 28936 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programming < 1519915687 227159 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you accept different code for all major prolog dialects, then in half of them you can compile ordinary imperative code with mutable cells < 1519915688 856463 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, OTOH, is normally pretty good for imperative programming except that storing variables is a pain < 1519915695 384178 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will still be a bit hard to read, mind you < 1519915708 160028 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you count assert/retract as mutable cells? < 1519915723 224891 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: assert/retract works, but sort of only for global variables < 1519915736 599552 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, it seems wrong to compile x += 1; into retract(x, X), X1 is X + 1, asserta(x, X1) < 1519915747 655839 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much rather use parameters < 1519915759 736541 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of like a state monad < 1519915772 798819 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets ugly if you want to represent local variables and algebraic structures (without loops or aliasing) with mutable cells in them, because then you need to create unique symbols and such things < 1519915789 454220 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most prologs have proper mutable cells, even if it's with an interface that isn't very prolog-like < 1519915823 301578 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones I'm familiar with don't < 1519915826 249899 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, so as of now, Olvasható doesn't have mutable cells (you could add them with the foreign interface) < 1519915838 749722 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me look this up about prologs then < 1519915847 508715 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the language I'm planning, you can have mutable scalars < 1519915875 265652 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aggregates have special rules (e.g. the scopes of all aggregates need to be well-nested, they're start append-only and can be changed to read-only so you can read them) < 1519915883 893246 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means you can handle any common memory management scheme < 1519915884 15389 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mutable globals, or mutable stack local variables with recursive functions too? < 1519915894 327272 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or also mutable heap-allocated variables? < 1519915898 402899 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, recursion < 1519915905 895123 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that'd be a useful feature to have < 1519915916 228789 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously, in the absence of recursion, there's no distinction between lexicals and globals) < 1519915933 706394 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have just globals of course, like in classical BASIC < 1519915954 892542 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just globals is, by the way, sort of the easiest model from which to compile to that language I'm trying to make < 1519915987 264370 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want lexicals syntactically < 1519916001 30159 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the absence of recursion you can just compile those to globals in languages with no lexicals, at no real loss of readability < 1519916051 839443 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only if you also don't have closures, not even closures that live only as long as their parent stack frame lives and point to the parent stack frame < 1519916065 621387 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, no way a language like this could have closures < 1519916076 870845 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is for the output to read the same as the input, just with different syntax < 1519916084 748693 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many languages don't have anything resembling a closure < 1519916093 36464 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to build one by hand, which would look very different < 1519916210 230634 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Sicstus prolog, the proprietary prolog implementation, has mutable cells, but it seems only ones that don't keep values through backtracking: https://sicstus.sics.se/sicstus/docs/latest4/html/sicstus.html/ref_002dlte_002dmut.html#ref_002dlte_002dmut . This doesn't sound efficient, but it's enough to compile imperative code with heap allocation i < 1519916210 376639 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nto it. < 1519916263 36554 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping values through backtracking would be even weirder < 1519916281 388941 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWI prolog has both sorts of mutables, backtracked and non-backtracked ones, but they're globals only, so the non-backtracked ones are just like assert in a disguise: http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=gvar < 1519916348 861177 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's something I can't find, because one of the prologs had a genuine way to mutate fields in terms, in a way that genuinely breaks every abstraction and invariant of prolog if you abuse it, but at least it's cheap < 1519916371 793929 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU prolog has non-backtrackable global variables http://www.gprolog.org/manual/html_node/gprolog045.html#g-assign%2F2 < 1519916433 749806 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a fourth brand of prolog interpreter I forgot, or am I just not looking for the right keywords in the manuals? < 1519916475 980547 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: weirder only if you think of backtracking the originally intended way. it's not as weird if you're an imperative guy and think of it as just a really strange control construct < 1519916478 603342 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was given a set of manuals for Borland Prolog once, but I've never actually used it < 1519916481 944552 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned Prolog from them, anyway < 1519916495 354332 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's weird because it's a compiled language and doesn't support rule-assertion at all < 1519916496 419225 :zsoc!~zsoc__@unaffiliated/zsoc JOIN :#esoteric < 1519916500 208773 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, being able to store values that survive backtracking lets you use backtracking to the fullest < 1519916538 880465 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise it's hard to have information escape from a branch that's eventually backtracked < 1519916548 380562 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current opinion on Prolog is that backtracking is a mistake and other methods of implementing nondeterminism are nearly always preferable < 1519916562 912951 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I dislike cut because its semantics are asymmetrical < 1519916580 553505 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x(X) :- X=a, !; X=b, ! < 1519916588 271667 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cares about which operand to ; is which < 1519916599 506415 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(while findall lets you get information from each branch if multiple branches succeed) < 1519916644 792707 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but they why do you want a prolog in first place? are you using term unification in some useful way? or do you just want to compile more ordinary code to prolog? < 1519916668 834672 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Olvasható, I don't use any of the special features of prolog, I'm just compiling a stateful functional language to it < 1519916713 171515 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I do use backtracking or unification, it's only because some built-ins require using them as their interface, eg. the numeric comparisons can fail < 1519916781 120886 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in your case, when you're compiling code to multiple languages, and at least one of them isn't prolog or whatever that one other prolog-like language is, that can be the right thing to do < 1519916841 901321 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what I really want is a declarative language which lets me specify constraints and solves them < 1519916855 276557 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is closer to this than most languages but still has notable differences from the ideal < 1519916856 21697 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is like the jokes I make about haskell embodied < 1519916868 656051 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess adding mutable globals to olvasható wouldn't be hard < 1519917055 145002 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I found it! < 1519917058 596718 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.gprolog.org/manual/html_node/gprolog028.html#sec90 < 1519917066 752711 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable cells breaking everything in gnu prolog < 1519917086 412485 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's quite the predicate < 1519917101 90083 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1519917104 693028 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like randomly adding an assignment operator to Haskell and hoping that things don't break :-) < 1519917204 20608 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it turns out that once I know what to search for, SWI has it too, with a slightly different syntax: < 1519917215 153612 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.swi-prolog.org/search?for=setarg < 1519917300 879715 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1519917306 479824 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering what the most semantics-destructive operation in any language is < 1519917315 473716 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have cast-and-dereference in C, and Obj.magic in OCaml < 1519917321 326864 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as far as I know, Sicstus doesn't have it < 1519917322 131746 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unsafeCoerce in Haskell < 1519917327 459249 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those seem fairly minor < 1519917339 443571 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cast to function pointer and call in C, as far as I'm aware < 1519917347 184551 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what operations pretty much completely violate the idea behind a languge? < 1519917350 400160 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OK, that's a pretty good one < 1519917363 652480 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, C is a fairly low level language < 1519917376 401093 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so seeing huge violations like that is less surprising in that context < 1519917381 278052 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days you often need some mprotect/mmap magic before you can use it, but still < 1519917391 508496 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, C wants to let you shoot you in the foot < 1519917406 946716 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do some forths < 1519917443 187118 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of these prologs and other high level languages allow you to call into native call, which can often do any sort of abstraction breaking, < 1519917457 273733 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that sometimes you don't have enough docs to affect the original language safely enough < 1519917458 937364 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1519917471 328496 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a completely different example I was thinking of recently < 1519917484 204952 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: replacing a much used method in ruby/smalltalk < 1519917527 580607 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often has undefined effects because you don't know what uses that method and what invariant it requires < 1519917604 925869 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can sort of get the same thing, toned down, by defining overloads std functions, or strange overloads to operators or well-known names, and then using template code that expects anything to behave sanely < 1519917607 398635 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Remind me at some point to write an x86 program which does a bunch of float computations then ()'s the result and has it magically do something fun < 1519917616 660769 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exact requirements are often poorly understood < 1519917679 539468 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if this is of the kind you were asking for, because it might not violate "the idea behind the language" < 1519917705 9078 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, Ruby programmers do that way too often < 1519917734 472024 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see adding methods (although I prefer Rust's way of doing that), but replacing them? < 1519917763 896879 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, a good way to break things in an undebuggable fashion is to call a native function that modifies some callee-saved registers < 1519917802 581876 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something I wanted to ask about the ruby-style dynamic method modifications < 1519917861 648783 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a language like ruby, where most function calls go through a dynamic lookup by name (semantically at least) < 1519917868 957899 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4713:2000:84e9:9936:e123:a780 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519917880 71016 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but suppose this is a language with multiple implementations, each of which might have different extensions < 1519917881 514353 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of C's best features, you can stick to the language but the environment might not be right and everything can still explode ;) < 1519917954 921165 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely considers the idea of compiled 90 < 1519917960 986332 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: calling native functions isn't really sticking to the language. you can still break a lot even if you stick to C though, by modifying memory you shouldn't touch through stray pointers or casted pointers or invalid array indexes, or by various other kinds of undefined behavior < 1519918031 26376 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right, in J too you can have, um, interesting effects if you make an operator that sometimes returns a value of the wrong word class, because the whole parsing is dynamic at runtime < 1519918051 630447 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: That's undefined though, breaking it while doing strictly defined things is more fun < 1519918106 978335 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beats the typical people I see, doing undefined things that infuriatingly seem to work regardless, until they don't) < 1519918118 728682 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and for more breaking constructs, there's also killing threads, great for breaking synchronization code < 1519918136 309700 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: huh, I assumed J would be less like Forth than that < 1519918138 575665 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it can cause nice deadlocks < 1519918531 564225 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, about what I want to ask in the ruby-like dynamic language < 1519918552 955547 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple implementations of the language < 1519918610 353554 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually someone figures out that frobs are a useful thing, and defines a standardized interface for frobs, which consists of two functions, frob (which produces a frob) and unfrob (which consumes a frob) plus a feature flag FROB that people can use to test if this extension is supported < 1519918629 450298 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the feature flag could be just the existence of the unfrob function in ruby, that's immaterial) < 1519918645 296975 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some implementations add the frob extension as a fast builtin implemented in native code < 1519918701 14135 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're writing portable code that needs frobs and wants to run on multiple implementations. so what you do is to check if the frob extension is supported, and if it's not, then use your own slower portable implementation < 1519918729 515330 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can load the implementation at runtime, since this is a dynamic language, and then set the feature flag, and if another library wants to use frobs, they'll then use your implementation < 1519918840 942248 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far that's nice. but how do you generally avoid the unlikely problem when your code loads your own portable frob implementation by first defining the frob function, then doing something else which involves loading another library, then defining the unfrob function and the feature flag, but < 1519918855 803343 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a later version of that other library decides it wants to use frobs itself, loads an incompatible frob implementation, and you end up with a frob function and an unfrob function that are incompatible with each other because they use different opaque representation for frobs. < 1519918926 153060 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a highly unlikely situation, but I wonder if there's some nice formalized standard convention that tells what you're allowed to do and what you aren't that avoids this problem, but still lets you have different implementations of frob with exactly one loaded so that different higher-level modules can pass frobs to each other. < 1519919022 44633 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It gets even worse if a later version of the language chooses to add multithreading.) < 1519919035 110959 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1519919036 386768 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1519919079 519722 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you need some sort of atomic registry of loaded libraries < 1519919090 422147 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows for multiple implementations of the same API < 1519919094 78871 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like Debian alternatives < 1519919106 364148 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but the feature flag is already atomic, it's just not atomic together with defining the functions < 1519919127 531672 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you want to put the functions in a module and load that atomically < 1519919156 559009 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then the code has to be very careful not to assume that your implementation will be the canonical one before it's fully loaded, and not leak any frobs before the module is fully loaded < 1519919343 933408 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In compiled languages we solve this by having the person who compiles the program required to be someone who understands such issues and sort it out when something blows up. < 1519919380 255863 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's wrong for each library to be individually responsible for making sure it doesn't clash with other libraries < 1519919389 899463 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that strikes me as the sort of thing that can be done in a centralised way < 1519919413 984011 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can certainly be at least a centralized feature registry < 1519919422 246354 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you could prevent multiple libraries defining the same identifier and have the users of the libraries search through the various frobnication implementations to see if any of them are loaded < 1519919449 954148 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking about this because the esolang I'm making is dynamically interpreted, and because I want to have two implementations of an arithmetic extension, a pure one, and a native sped up one. < 1519919494 522809 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the pure one for two reasons: to prove that the core language is powerful enough to define such things as addition of integers, < 1519919504 556876 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to prove that the particular interface I choose is the right one for the language. < 1519919782 787029 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :search through the various frobnicatio implementations => I'm not sure how that would work < 1519919808 856180 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preventing to define the same identifier, in an atomic way, could find the bug, but it wouldn't fix it < 1519919838 254303 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that only works if everything in your interface is identifiers < 1519919897 968160 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the other kind of conflict comes up much more often in real life, which is when multiple libraries try to access some system resource in incompatible way, and that system resource doesn't already have very standardized locking conventions < 1519919922 545091 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when a library in one thread opens a file descriptor, and another library in another thread forks < 1519920135 145797 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian alternatives... yeah, that one is nice in theory, until you realize how incompatible some of the alternatives really are with each other < 1519920230 478719 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! and I remember that bug I hunted for hours, when debian alternatives decided that true was an acceptable alternative for X if neither X.org or Xfree86 is installed, and so startx just stopped without a sensible error message < 1519920242 57365 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I accidentally uninstalled X.org somehow) < 1519920254 875039 :ais523_!93bcc344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1519920481 777048 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, I also saw a case when debian wasn't using alternatives, but really should have, and alternatives would have solved the problem properly: < 1519920534 942175 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely when debian decided that nc6 conflicted with traditional netcat, where nc6 installs the main executable to the same name in /usr/bin , knows how to handle ipv6, but somehow has a completely different syntax to start listener sockets. < 1519920577 10474 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :christ, this was solved on the api level decades ago < 1519920611 486115 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: not decades ago really. when I was young, getaddrinfo didn't exist yet. < 1519920619 140650 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AF_INET gives you 6 or 4 depending on system default, but you can override with AF_INET4 or AF_INET6, and getaddrinfo does all the translations < 1519920641 662385 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but like I said, getaddrinfo didn't exist back then < 1519920656 25560 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nc6 supports ipv6, presumably it's using that interface < 1519920673 968230 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just.. update nc to use getaddrinfo, add a -4 and a -6 switch to force INET4 and INET6, done < 1519920696 834562 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, only it's an independent reimplementation, and its command line interface is different from the traditional nc, so it won't work for how I'm trying to use it in command line for ipv4 < 1519920721 130429 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds silly < 1519920735 923 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that xkcd comic about stanards < 1519920758 22641 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I think the traditional nc did that later. it's just that some other scripts depend on nc6, and if alternatives are not in use because someone thought it was a drop-in replacement, then you can't have both installed at the same time < 1519920768 162080 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was some debian versions ago, I think they're handling all this better now < 1519920773 49862 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1519920777 447887 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days debian is much better < 1519920778 839493 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian is slow and silly, for the most part < 1519920796 134321 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had an issue where it was shipping a 12 year old version of a library < 1519920797 161726 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even solved the directory structure problems with installing x86_32 and x86_64 libraries at the same time < 1519920818 796713 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have any 32-bit program installed if it depends on libraries that 32-bit debian provides < 1519920830 686308 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea multiarch installs isn't a hard problem < 1519920840 705697 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just split all library and binary paths into two and you're done < 1519920843 172663 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they solved it at just the right time when finally everyone else has upgraded their programs to 64-bit so you no longer need 32-bit libraries on linux < 1519920858 766414 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have whatever wine needs < 1519920868 818697 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a hard problem in practice. you need to update ten thousand separate makefiles to use the right paths. < 1519920877 402190 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you did it right < 1519920882 838775 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :--prefix etc < 1519920901 503220 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the debian maintainers maintain like ten thousand packages, and many of those haven't done it right < 1519920903 984620 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything using autotools will work automatically as long as your original system was set up to give autotools decent info, etc < 1519920936 251973 :Wooble!~Wooble@unaffiliated/wooble PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 1.4" < 1519920938 85036 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always the sandbox hack, too < 1519920957 213752 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say hack, it isn't really much of one < 1519920988 731101 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you mean the one used on windows and android where every "application" can only access its own files? great way to ruin unix tools philosophy. now instead of a system with tools, you have a hundred systems with applications. < 1519920996 24078 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're packaging binaries you only need the final directory structure to be right, you don't /need/ the build scripts to be correct, it can be enough to just throw in a symlink from lib to lib32 when you build it, then package it, done < 1519921000 213379 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1519921024 21618 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that only works if the programs don't need to know the lib paths at runtime < 1519921029 612798 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo for example, builds everything inside a chroot, so it can create proper filesystem diffs etc < 1519921036 312077 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: ld.so covers that < 1519921042 968171 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they shouldn't need to know them at runtime < 1519921045 525517 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do, because programs have arch-specific files other than linked in ELF shared libraries in lib < 1519921055 929167 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have all sorts of files they need to access at runtime, and some of them are arch-dependent < 1519921059 625029 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fraction that do something THAT pants on head retarded must be near 0 < 1519921084 844993 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not retarded. do you want programs to embed every data in their binary like some defensive stuff do? < 1519921093 708911 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I want them to not include it < 1519921098 873036 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not require it, which almost all software doesn't < 1519921099 502211 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we have all that directory standards, so that programs can access files < 1519921110 204639 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have to tell insmod where /usr/lib/kernel is < 1519921116 389176 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time I run it < 1519921124 927029 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the kernel knows its own version number < 1519921130 686063 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld.so knows where your /usr/lib32/ i s < 1519921131 923395 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, insmod isn't an ordinary case < 1519921157 925010 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a rather strange special case < 1519921161 524180 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing an elf 'needs' is the name of ld.so, which relies on your system binutils knowing it, which requires debian to know it < 1519921171 458584 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it does, so everything is fine < 1519921256 593659 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even think how you'd construct a binary that failed to work with a funnily named /usr/lib unless you hardcoded it to fail < 1519921287 556661 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to ship it with a custom INTERP field in the elf section, with a custom .so loader, which failed to check your library path < 1519921398 609058 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves you only with the original problem: hardcoded makefiles targetting /usr/lib, which a sandbox or symlink on the build-host fixes < 1519922616 155726 :lldd!~n@129.79.117.91.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1519923130 296805 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-188-107-244-128.188.107.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1519923983 463986 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1519924821 32256 :lldd!~n@129.79.117.91.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1519924963 196537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1519924964 456685 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :90) you move on the tape and shit \ 835) i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function" < 1519925429 253386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait surely it's exactly as fast as any computable function < 1519925441 115942 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` wisdom # will return fewer bad wisdoms now, I hope < 1519925442 472828 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​a test word//another test word < 1519925443 828929 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1519925445 459671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​lord//The way of the Lord is not just. < 1519925445 508736 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1519925446 785005 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`edit//`edit gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel. < 1519925447 71928 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1519925448 417988 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​loudly//Did you mean: 04,09l09,04o04,09u09,04d04,09l09,04y < 1519925450 65681 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1519925451 361010 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1519925451 504175 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​algol//ALGOL stands for A Programming Language < 1519925452 445383 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 Servings \ \ 2/3 c Butter or margarine \ 2 tb Olive oil \ 4 c Brown sugar \ 1 ts Salt \ 1/2 ts Cinnamon \ 1/2 ts Baking soda \ \ Either lean spices, serve spicy baking sheets pale over crumbs. \ \ 5. Add tomato paste, cumin and salt. Mash sugar and sugar seeds. Sprinkle with salt, seasoned, \ reserved for a few minutes on the heat < 1519925490 661174 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spicy baking sheets < 1519925506 207850 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? roborosewater < 1519925507 374357 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater < 1519925942 606459 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1519925984 348923 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote arrow's < 1519925985 673961 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1519925990 544392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp arrow's < 1519925996 288808 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1519926108 242779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Kenneth Arrow is famous for his ill-fated attempt at becomeing dictator for life through an application of pure logic. ) < 1519926239 494978 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/welcöme < 1519926248 677810 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5350:2015-05-04 ` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\nwelcome "$@" | sed s/o/\xc3\xb6/g\' > bin/welc\xc3\xb6me && chmod a+x bin/welc\xc3\xb6me < 1519926259 354148 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/wellcome < 1519926267 52904 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5349:2015-05-04 ` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\nwelcome "$@" | sed s/l/ll/g\' > bin/wellcome && chmod a+x bin/wellcome \ 5348:2015-05-04 ` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\nwelcome "$@" | sed s/l/ll/g\' > bin/wellcome && chmod a+x bin/vellcome < 1519926282 551510 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, I looked at doag's source code. it has a blacklist of commits that are so botched up they'd trigger too much. < 1519926303 299562 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to take that into account if I write scripts that inspect the HackEgo hg repo < 1519926304 878372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1519926306 224788 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1519926335 9542 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/wellcome welcöme < 1519926337 157737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove 'welc\303\266me': No such file or directory \ removed 'bin/wellcome' < 1519926345 65717 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/welcöme < 1519926347 32206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/welc\303\266me' < 1519926531 922555 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v bin/en2sv < 1519926533 780596 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed 'bin/en2sv' < 1519926979 552242 :mniip!mniip@haskell/developer/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1519926996 245450 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519927422 976524 :zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net PART :#esoteric < 1519927852 680511 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2842:5e29:b95a:8438 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519928263 195212 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4713:2000:84e9:9936:e123:a780 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519928648 544686 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1519929970 601819 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519931745 133565 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball Is it too early to start procrastinating? < 1519931746 425403 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a doubt. < 1519931897 608573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1519931931 332283 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball should I leave important decisions to HackEgo? < 1519931932 513614 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concentrate and ask again. < 1519931951 855116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball *ahem* Should I leave important decisions to HackEgo? < 1519931953 497236 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook good. < 1519931985 839535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono, Outlook bad, unless you don't want to read email! < 1519932052 998309 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1519932065 451203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07IOTA-C014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54258 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+34539) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=IOTA-C0 |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:Enoua5]] |majorimpl=[https://github.com/enoua5/IOTA-C0 IOTA-C0 Suite] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |mems..." < 1519932097 834350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball Is there any point in asking again? < 1519932098 512316 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may rely on it. < 1519932135 844468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "proactive procrastination" < 1519932136 568553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=proactive%20procrastination > 1519932152 325798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54259&oldid=54150 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+14) 10 > 1519932314 917178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Enoua514]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54260&oldid=54241 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+61) 10/* Languages created */ < 1519933669 420345 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :garlic-scented throwing stars lol < 1519933807 649954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :4,8CUSTOMERS ARE ADVISED NOT TO TRAVEL WEST OF SALISBURY OR WEST OF BOURNEMOUTH. < 1519933823 436954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those areas are lost. Do not go there. < 1519933844 196728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/live-departures-and-arrivals ) < 1519935496 691343 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1519935503 276661 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? europe < 1519935504 200100 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo. < 1519935609 539470 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? europa < 1519935611 494398 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :europa? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1519935700 50783 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those worlds are yours except Europa. Attempt no landing there. < 1519936104 80138 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1519936153 856941 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remavas: dunno, the mysterious powerful alien overlords' sentinel didn't give a reason. we think it has to do with an experiment in breeding life on an ice planet. > 1519936518 626882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54261&oldid=54256 5* 03ZM 5* (+236) 10/* Introductions */ < 1519937611 857194 :lldd!~n@129.79.117.91.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1519937614 413385 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? worlds < 1519937616 79099 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worlds? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1519937617 772863 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? except < 1519937619 357597 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1519937831 869988 :enoua5!89be8ad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.190.138.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519937849 322479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1519938249 309767 :enoua5!89be8ad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.190.138.208 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1519938638 769072 :wob_jonas!b03f18c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mole < 1519938639 860971 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. < 1519939857 672751 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519942030 357359 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-saqyafrszpdbnzws JOIN :#esoteric < 1519942214 499218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole Trustico incident is hilarious < 1519942224 940366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the most amazing screwups I've ever seen < 1519942268 116483 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1519942289 116739 :laerling_!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1519942403 471118 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Client Quit < 1519943645 695010 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1519944332 434514 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1519944626 225598 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1519945417 950214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519945479 80533 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519945611 801180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have you been "ais513" at some point, and/or do you have a sibling ten units smaller? Random clicking around in YouTube led me to the SGDQ2016 TASBot video, which is described as: "This is a speedrun of TASBot plays Super Mario Bros 3 (RomHack) by ais513, total_, mitchflowerpower from Summer Games Done Quick 2016." < 1519946131 378533 :laerling_!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1519946149 2698 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2842:5e29:b95a:8438 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1519946970 279418 :constant!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1519947108 507610 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1519947770 429756 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1519947834 25550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that title is incorrect in multiple respects < 1519947853 393713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of which is my nick, another is that it isn't a romhack (it's the actual unmodified game) < 1519947926 179707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I need to go to be < 1519947927 668404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bed < 1519947929 748520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: bedtime < 1519948025 404900 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1519948562 660451 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds