00:00:00 <oerjan> that was certainly random
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00:00:12 <fizzie> Happy new year, finally.
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00:00:46 <int-e> ( The sad thing is that I'm putting the space there to make cut&paste easier, not to confuse idris-bot.)
00:00:47 <idris-bot> 1 | The sad thing is that I'm putting the space there to make cut&paste easier, not to confuse idris-bot.)
00:01:53 <fizzie> They've got the big ben doing the bongs specifically for new years. (It's being renovated and normally not doing the bongs.)
00:02:19 <boily> fizziellista uutta vuotta!
00:02:51 <alercah> fizzie: I heard about that, but I'm unfortunately out of range
00:02:54 <int-e> fizzie: Welcome to the 3.017th millenium, glad you could make it!
00:03:00 <shachaf> fizzie: see https://youtube.com/watch?v=gUWyTUmS8Bw#t=1m hth
00:03:26 <fizzie> alercah: I'm just watching the BBC show.
00:04:40 <fizzie> (In London, but there's too many people at the actual place.)
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00:07:11 <shachaf> Took me so long to find the video on my phone
00:07:57 <int-e> (I just checked, lambdabot's on UTC)
00:08:48 <lambdabot> I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time?
00:11:06 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Dec 31 16:11:03 2017
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00:22:17 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international millennium for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
00:29:24 <boily> int-e: what's a -----<3<3?
00:30:00 <fizzie> I took it to be a special kind of swatter.
00:30:13 <int-e> it's a special kind of swatter
00:30:24 <shachaf> all is fair in love and swats
00:31:54 <boily> is it a birch bough to stimulate blood flow and sudation?
00:32:14 <int-e> it's full of love as shachaf already mentioned
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01:04:16 <int-e> ooph, Duet's nightly challenge was hard
01:04:47 <shachaf> The game with the spinning dots?
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02:11:08 <boily> happy not quite new year but soon to be!
02:12:12 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Dec 31 18:12:09 2017
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02:45:02 <lambdabot> CYQB 010200Z 25014KT 15SM SKC M23/M29 A3017 RMK SLP228
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03:00:30 <\oren\_> ftr, clrc, wzrd, thief, pldn, brbrn, lark, ilsnt, druid, alcmt, rngr
03:03:21 <\oren\_> they can't display a string longer than 5 charaters?
03:06:50 <zzo38> How can you in Firefox program how to determine the preference of which video file to play when there is more than one that is compatible?
03:10:59 <zzo38> \oren\_: What is displaying that?
03:37:05 <\oren\_> zzo38: the NES game Ultima Exodus
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03:37:44 <zzo38> O, OK. Yes a longer word might not fit if you want to display many thing at once.
03:38:10 <zzo38> NES picture is only 32x30 tiles, and some of them are likely to be in an overscan area
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05:23:29 <boily> IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
05:23:48 <boily> new year to vous autres and happiness and all!
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10:55:45 <int-e> illusionist, given that list
10:56:33 <int-e> but a quite impossible question out of context :)
11:01:32 <shachaf> OK, so say you want to go from handwritten `rm a b c` to scripted `rm ${arr[@]}`
11:01:46 <shachaf> An element of arr might contain whitespace.
11:01:58 <shachaf> An element of arr might start with -
11:02:55 <shachaf> (Is `rm -f -- "${arr[@]}"` correct in all cases?)
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11:27:58 <int-e> none of that will work on a Posix system (shell (no arrays) and rm (no --))
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12:01:23 <wob_jonas> arrived home from visiting my brother for a week
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15:31:57 <boily> fungot: happy nostril!
15:31:58 <fungot> boily: maybe i should go and see, if you keep forgetting the fnord no change in input stream, wouldn't the bot be more like " wow, this coyotos stuff is pretty current. :d
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16:52:45 <int-e> fungot: yes please keep forgetting that
16:52:45 <fungot> int-e: must be this nick, " the concept of images obvious to even code fnord...) error: connection refused
16:53:02 <fungot> int-e: i'd like to play with, so no
16:56:36 <boily> int-ello. remember the fnord.
17:21:56 <esowiki> [[ABC (compiler)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53727 * B jonas * (+1223) Created page with "'''ABC''' is a compiler to an esoteric language by Tom Murphy VII (tom7), published on 2017-03 for the SIGBOVIK 2017 eso-conference. The compiler outputs such DOS EXE execu..."
17:22:46 <esowiki> [[ABC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53728&oldid=41431 * B jonas * (+56)
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17:36:11 <fungot> ATMunn: there are 5 buses. tampere might have, but that was over a year ago already
17:36:17 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
17:42:09 <esowiki> [[ABC (compiler)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53729&oldid=53727 * B jonas * (+336)
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17:51:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/trisecting the angle
17:53:03 <boily> `? trisecting the angle
17:53:05 <HackEgo> Angle Trisection is an open problem that you should /definitely/ try to solve! For glory and honor!
17:53:46 <int-e> . o O ( Ironically, producing trisected angles is almost trivial. )
17:55:31 <boily> geometric trapdoor?
17:58:54 <wob_jonas> `learn Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for two thousand years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth kind of vitreous humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet
17:58:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'aristotle': Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for two thousand years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth kind of vitreous humor, vitamin C, because the
17:59:01 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for two thousand years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth kind of vitreous humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet
18:00:07 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<","wisdom/aristotle";$_=<$i>; print substr$_,300;
18:00:08 <HackEgo> umor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet
18:00:50 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<","wisdom/aristotle";$_=<$i>; s/(alphabet).*/$1 doesn't have the letter C.\n/; print substr$_,300;
18:00:51 <HackEgo> umor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:01:38 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/(alphabet).*/$1 doesn't have the letter C.\n/ or die; open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; print substr$_,300;
18:01:40 <HackEgo> umor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:01:44 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for two thousand years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth kind of vitreous humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn'
18:02:36 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/(fifth) kind of vitreous/$1/ or die; if (0) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,300;
18:02:37 <HackEgo> because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:02:45 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/(fifth) kind of vitreous/$1/ or die; if (0) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,200;
18:02:46 <HackEgo> 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:03:01 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/(fifth) kind of vitreous/$1/ or die; if (1) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,200;
18:03:03 <HackEgo> 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:03:06 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for two thousand years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter
18:03:33 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/two thousand/2000/ or die; if (0) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,200;
18:03:34 <HackEgo> tury that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:03:43 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/two thousand/2000/ or die; if (0) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,0;
18:03:44 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:03:48 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/two thousand/2000/ or die; if (1) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,0;
18:03:50 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:04:27 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/find fifth/find the fifth/ or die; if (1) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,0;
18:04:29 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:04:31 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years, even though people still died of illnesses. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:07:00 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/, even though.*\. / without checking. / or die; if (0) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,0;
18:07:00 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years without checking. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:07:18 <wob_jonas> `perl -eopen$i,"<",($f="wisdom/aristotle");$_=<$i>; s/, even though.*\. / without checking. / or die; if (1) { open$o,">",$f; print$o $_ or die; } print substr$_,0;
18:07:20 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years without checking. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
18:07:24 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years without checking. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
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18:59:01 <boily> Significant advances in Vitamin C studies were made during the latter part of the twentieth century, with the Appolo program. Antique Greek civilizations collected all available vitamins, except the mythical vitamin C. Greek cosmology told that it was found on the moon in abundance, and called it the “lunate vitamin”.
18:59:49 <boily> By pure chance this is true, as found by American astronauts. Modern scientists have kept the Greek appelation, derived from the lunate sigma letter.
19:10:31 <wob_jonas> boily: actually I think the ancients only got the A, B, E, K vitamins, except for B_1, and modern times got C and D and B_1.
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20:34:38 <\oren\_> sd4g mq53 siqh w652 hmbb kcnr aaui frgb
20:39:54 <\oren\_> lkdo iiqz uzas mjm5 oycd fb2c calq kdnc
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00:29:05 <zzo38> Was it deliberate that they made the same # to mean directives in C and comments in shell-scripts? I doubt that was the reason, but I don't know (that ability is useful, though).
00:41:15 <doesthiswork> Bertand Russel announces ambitious attempt to ground all of logic in logic
00:43:16 <Slereah> I'm guessing there's just a finite amount of symbols with no obvious meaning
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00:43:33 <Slereah> And those are the ones you use for everything that doesn't have an obvious symbol for it
00:44:38 <fizzie> It doesn't answer that question, but there's a little bit about the preprocessor in Ritchie's "The Development of the C Language" article.
00:44:42 <fizzie> "Many other changes occurred around 1972-3, but the most important was the introduction of the preprocessor, partly at the urging of Alan Snyder [Snyder 74], but also in recognition of the utility of the the file-inclusion mechanisms available in BCPL and PL/I. Its original version was exceedingly simple, and provided only included files and simple string replacements: #include and #define of
00:44:48 <fizzie> parameterless macros. Soon thereafter, it was extended, mostly by Mike Lesk and then by John Reiser, to incorporate macros with arguments and conditional compilation. The preprocessor was originally considered an optional adjunct to the language itself. Indeed, for some years, it was not even invoked unless the source program contained a special signal at its beginning. This attitude persisted, and
00:44:54 <fizzie> explains both the incomplete integration of the syntax of the preprocessor with the rest of the language and the imprecision of its description in early reference manuals."
00:45:11 <fizzie> http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/docs/chistory.html
00:48:01 <Slereah> If you look at an ASCII table, there aren't that many other symbols C could have used back then
00:48:26 <oerjan> <int-e> illusionist, given that list <-- in that case, what is lark?
00:49:00 <Slereah> Symbols that don't have a common meaning are just like !#$%@|\
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00:57:03 <fizzie> "There is a choice between 11 classes: Fighter, Paladin, Cleric, Wizard, Ranger, Thief, Barbarian, Lark, Illusionist, Druid, and Alchemist."
00:58:19 <fizzie> It's kind of like a bard, I believe.
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01:30:59 <zzo38> Someone told me if using Chromium on Raspberry Pi, the mouse cursor isn't hidden until it is moved, even if the CSS tells it to hide. Will using XWarpPointer() with all arguments (except the display) zero to make it to hide in that case? I don't have the stuff to test it, but I wrote such a program and at least xterm believes the mouse has been moved in that case (it unhides te mouse cursor).
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02:41:37 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years without checking. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
02:43:28 <shachaf> i have a vitamin D deficiency apparently tdnh
02:45:06 <boily> helloochaf. not enough sun?
02:45:37 <shachaf> that's what the oracle told me
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03:09:58 <oerjan> viewing wikipedia diffs where someone switches between '' and " is confusing
03:10:34 <oerjan> (they're not easily distinguishable in proportional font)
03:31:24 <zzo38> Add a custom CSS rule if you want, then.
03:31:47 <zzo38> You can then change it to a more suitable font.
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07:24:45 <zzo38> Do you know Minsky's circle algorithm? It is: for(;;) { x-=epsilon*y; y+=epsilon*x; plot(x,y); } where epsilon should be a fraction less than one.
07:25:46 <zzo38> If it is a power of two then you do not need multiplication and division instructions; bit shift is good enough. But I also think that if you are using 8-bit registers, you may even be able to avoid bit shifting if epsilon is 1/256.
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08:55:05 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53730&oldid=53717 * YuvalM * (+158) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */ -> Added another algorithm (shorter than before)
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09:02:35 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53731&oldid=53730 * YuvalM * (+144) /* z = x and y (boolean, logical) */
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09:31:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: ah yes, that's the sort of thing you'd use only in an old CPU, but you have to be very careful to get it right, it's too easy to mess up
09:32:42 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, that's why we use mediawiki templates for formatting citations, like {{cite journal |title=Foo |journal=Bar |... }} instead of "Foo", ''Bar'' ...
09:33:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: when you write it yourself, you can always just use <i>...</i> instead of course
09:34:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: does that matter? I think shell comments are later than that, because in the old days they just used a : command (alias for true) instead of sharp-comments
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10:13:56 <b_jonas> ais523 or anyone else: do you also think that tom7 referencing that linear logic thingy in his proof is a horrible overkill?
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10:32:42 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53732&oldid=53731 * YuvalM * (-1) /* z = x and y (boolean, logical) */ removed an extra '['
10:35:16 <esowiki> [[User:YuvalM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53733 * YuvalM * (+249) Created page with "==Hi!== My name is Yuval Meshorer and I'm 16 years old. I discovered Brainfuck and since then I've been fascinated by it. I've added several things to the Brainfuck algorit..."
10:38:42 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53734&oldid=53732 * YuvalM * (-27) /* x = x or y (boolean, logical) */ Improved my algortithm.
10:49:14 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53735&oldid=53734 * YuvalM * (+0) /* z = x xor y (boolean, logcial) */ added 'z[-]' to reset the 'z' value
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11:25:07 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53736&oldid=53735 * YuvalM * (+133) /* x = x or y (boolean, logical) */ added another algorithm
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12:12:25 <lambdabot> LOWI 021150Z 26011KT 9999 FEW010 BKN065 05/00 Q1015 R08/19//95 TEMPO 3000 -SHSN BKN012
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15:26:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:whatchamacallit//A whatchamacallit is like a thwackamacallit, but less painful. \ golf//Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. \ sparse matrix algorithm//Sparse matrix algorithms are a trivial special case of non-sparse matrix algorithms, by conjugating with the sparsification operatio
15:26:29 <HackEgo> 2/2:n. \ inory//Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite. \ chthonic//Chthonic lithping can be vethy dithturbing to lithten to.
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16:16:08 <b_jonas> What's the hackego special command to paste a file to a webpage?
16:16:15 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/starwars
16:16:55 <b_jonas> I have to update that to include some of the main characters of Jedi Reloaded, including Admiral Honda
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16:22:43 <oerjan> b_jonas: you can also try `edit
16:24:37 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/starwars
16:36:15 <b_jonas> In fact it's missing some important characters already in The Force Awakens
16:37:49 <HackEgo> 10521:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/|Sith Lord Jar Jar|/|/\' bin/starwars \ 10520:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8"/f-8)"/\' bin/starwars \ 10519:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8)/f-8"/\' bin/starwars \ 10518:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/binmode/;binmode/\' bin/starwars \ 10517:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed
16:51:38 <b_jonas> also, one of the character names is incorrect
16:51:54 <b_jonas> Luke's adoptive aunt is called Beru Lars, not Benu Lars
16:52:41 <int-e> Hmm, how does one adopt an aunt.
16:53:18 <int-e> (I think that would be quite popular if legally possible.)
17:01:07 <HackEgo> 10521:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/|Sith Lord Jar Jar|/|/\' bin/starwars \ 10520:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8"/f-8)"/\' bin/starwars \ 10519:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8)/f-8"/\' bin/starwars \ 10518:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/binmode/;binmode/\' bin/starwars \ 10517:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed
17:01:15 <b_jonas> I don't think I managed to save
17:01:43 <b_jonas> `fetch bin/starwars https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/starwars
17:01:47 <HackEgo> 2018-01-02 17:00:31 URL:https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/starwars [1201/1201] -> "bin/starwars" [1]
17:01:58 <HackEgo> Finn \ Admiral Crix Madine \ Orson Krennic \ Nute Gunray \ Darth Maul \ Chewbacca \ Sabé \ Darth Vader \ Nien Nunb \ C-3PO \ Owen Lars \ Darth Plagueis \ BB-9E \ DJ \ Boss Nass \ Conan Antonio Motti \ Greedo \ Ortugg \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Rey
17:02:00 <HackEgo> 11299:2018-01-02 <b_jonäs> fetch bin/starwars https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/starwars \ 10521:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/|Sith Lord Jar Jar|/|/\' bin/starwars \ 10520:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8"/f-8)"/\' bin/starwars \ 10519:2017-03-26 <wob_jonäs> `` sed -i \'s/f-8)/f-8"/\' bin/starwars \ 10518:2017-03-26 <wob_
17:02:29 <b_jonas> added a lot of characters, now has about 89 total
17:02:55 <HackEgo> hg: unknown command 'log -v bin/starwars' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ d
17:02:59 <b_jonas> ``` hg log -v bin/starwars
17:03:00 <HackEgo> changeset: 11299:0fefbdece7f0 \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Tue Jan 02 17:00:32 2018 +0000 \ files: bin/starwars \ description: \ <b_jonas> fetch bin/starwars https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/starwars \ \ \ changeset: 10521:65621e821c02 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Mar 26 02:13:44 2017 +0000 \
17:04:09 <int-e> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/rev/0fefbdece7f0 and https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/log/0fefbdece7f0/bin/starwars may be more helpful
17:04:12 <b_jonas> also, now easily allows to list multiple characters, just give a number as command-line argument
17:04:48 <b_jonas> int-e: I thought I'd make it print a diff, but then I realized that since all the characetrs are listed in one line, that won't be too useful
17:05:45 <int-e> you could adapt the *list idea
17:06:23 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/olist
17:06:31 <b_jonas> how do I make mercurial cat a given revision of the file?
17:06:47 <b_jonas> like svn cat -r120 bin/starwars
17:07:55 <HackEgo> 0fefbdece7f0: no such file in rev 0fefbdece7f0
17:08:02 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat 0fefbdece7f0 bin/starwars
17:08:03 <HackEgo> 0fefbdece7f0: no such file in rev 0fefbdece7f0 \ #!/usr/bin/perl \ @c=split/\|/,"Admiral Crix Madine|Admiral Firmus Piett|Anakin Skywalker|BB-8|BB-9E|Bail Organa|Baze Malbus|Beru Lars|Bib Fortuna|Biggs Darklighter|Boba Fett|Bodhi Rook|Boss Nass|C-3PO|Captain Panaka|Captain Phasma|Cassian Andor|Chancellor Valorum|Chewbacca|Chief Jawa|Chirrut \x{ce}m
17:08:25 <int-e> `` hg cat -r 0fefbdece7f0 bin/starwars
17:08:26 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ @c=split/\|/,"Admiral Crix Madine|Admiral Firmus Piett|Anakin Skywalker|BB-8|BB-9E|Bail Organa|Baze Malbus|Beru Lars|Bib Fortuna|Biggs Darklighter|Boba Fett|Bodhi Rook|Boss Nass|C-3PO|Captain Panaka|Captain Phasma|Cassian Andor|Chancellor Valorum|Chewbacca|Chief Jawa|Chirrut \x{ce}mwe|Cliegg Lars|Conan Antonio Motti|DJ|Darth Ba
17:08:31 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | diff bin/starwars
17:08:32 <HackEgo> diff: missing operand after 'bin/starwars' \ diff: Try 'diff --help' for more information.
17:08:49 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n | diff - <(tr \| \\n < bin/starwars)
17:08:50 <HackEgo> 65621e821c02: no such file in rev 0fefbdece7f0
17:09:03 <int-e> b_jonas: you're still missing the -r
17:09:08 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n | diff - <(tr \| \\n < bin/starwars)
17:09:09 <HackEgo> 65621e821c02: no such file in rev 0fefbdece7f0
17:09:12 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n | diff - <(tr \| \\n < bin/starwars)
17:09:23 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n
17:09:24 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ @c=split/\ \ /,"Admiral Crix Madine \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Anakin Skywalker \ Bail Organa \ Baze Malbus \ Benu Lars \ Bib Fortuna \ Boba Fett \ Bodhi Rook \ Boss Nass \ C-3PO \ Captain Phasma \ Cassian Andor \ Chancellor Valorum \ Chewbacca \ Chief Jawa \ Chirrut \x{ce}mwe \ Cliegg Lars \ Conan Antonio Motti \ Darth Maul \ Da
17:10:01 <b_jonas> ``` <bin/starwars tr \| \\n
17:10:01 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ @c=split/\ \ /,"Admiral Crix Madine \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Anakin Skywalker \ BB-8 \ BB-9E \ Bail Organa \ Baze Malbus \ Beru Lars \ Bib Fortuna \ Biggs Darklighter \ Boba Fett \ Bodhi Rook \ Boss Nass \ C-3PO \ Captain Panaka \ Captain Phasma \ Cassian Andor \ Chancellor Valorum \ Chewbacca \ Chief Jawa \ Chirrut \x{ce}mwe \
17:10:20 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n | diff -s - <(tr \| \\n < bin/starwars)
17:10:46 <b_jonas> ``` diff -s /dev/null bin/starwars
17:10:46 <HackEgo> 0a1,2 \ > #!/usr/bin/perl \ > @c=split/\|/,"Admiral Crix Madine|Admiral Firmus Piett|Anakin Skywalker|BB-8|BB-9E|Bail Organa|Baze Malbus|Beru Lars|Bib Fortuna|Biggs Darklighter|Boba Fett|Bodhi Rook|Boss Nass|C-3PO|Captain Panaka|Captain Phasma|Cassian Andor|Chancellor Valorum|Chewbacca|Chief Jawa|Chirrut \x{ce}mwe|Cliegg Lars|Conan Antonio Motti|DJ
17:11:13 <b_jonas> ``` cat <(tr \| \\n < bin/starwars)
17:11:19 <b_jonas> ``` r \| \\n < bin/starwars
17:11:20 <HackEgo> bash: r: command not found
17:11:22 <b_jonas> ``` tr \| \\n < bin/starwars
17:11:22 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ @c=split/\ \ /,"Admiral Crix Madine \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Anakin Skywalker \ BB-8 \ BB-9E \ Bail Organa \ Baze Malbus \ Beru Lars \ Bib Fortuna \ Biggs Darklighter \ Boba Fett \ Bodhi Rook \ Boss Nass \ C-3PO \ Captain Panaka \ Captain Phasma \ Cassian Andor \ Chancellor Valorum \ Chewbacca \ Chief Jawa \ Chirrut \x{ce}mwe \
17:12:15 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n > /tmp/a0; tr \| \\n < bin/starwars > /tmp/a1; diff -s /tmp/a{0,1}
17:12:16 <HackEgo> 5a6,7 \ > BB-8 \ > BB-9E \ 8c10 \ < Benu Lars \ --- \ > Beru Lars \ 9a12 \ > Biggs Darklighter \ 13a17 \ > Captain Panaka \ 21a26,27 \ > DJ \ > Darth Bane \ 22a29 \ > Darth Plagueis \ 24c31,32 \ < Dooku \ --- \ > Doctor Cornelius Evazan \ > Count Dooku \ 27a36 \ > General Armitage Hux \ 43a53 \ > Lor San Tekka \ 48a59 \ > Nien Nunb \ 56a68 \ > Pond
17:12:48 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n > /tmp/a0; tr \| \\n < bin/starwars > /tmp/a1; diff -sU0 /tmp/a{0,1}
17:12:49 <HackEgo> --- /tmp/a02018-01-02 17:11:34.706011000 +0000 \ +++ /tmp/a12018-01-02 17:11:34.706011000 +0000 \ @@ -5,0 +6,2 @@ \ +BB-8 \ +BB-9E \ @@ -8 +10 @@ \ -Benu Lars \ +Beru Lars \ @@ -9,0 +12 @@ \ +Biggs Darklighter \ @@ -13,0 +17 @@ \ +Captain Panaka \ @@ -21,0 +26,2 @@ \ +DJ \ +Darth Bane \ @@ -22,0 +29 @@ \ +Darth Plagueis \ @@ -24 +31,2 @@ \ -Do
17:13:07 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \| \\n > /tmp/a0; tr \| \\n < bin/starwars > /tmp/a1; comm -3 /tmp/a{0,1}
17:13:08 <HackEgo> comm: file 2 is not in sorted order \ BB-8 \ BB-9E \ Benu Lars \ Beru Lars \ Biggs Darklighter \ Captain Panaka \ DJ \ Darth Bane \ Darth Plagueis \ Doctor Cornelius Evazan \ Count Dooku \ Dooku \ General Armitage Hux \ Lor San Tekka \ Nien Nunb \ Ponda Baba \ Rose Tico \ Sab\x{e9} \ Unkar Plutt \ Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo \ the
17:14:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Banana * New user account
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17:18:20 <b_jonas> int-e: have you seen tom7's video that he claims tries to explain some proof to beginners, but actually it doesn't? if so, do you also think that involving that linear logic thing is a huge overkill?
17:18:47 <int-e> `` echo $(grep '^[+-][^+-]' <(diff -U0 <(< bin/starwars tr \|\"\ \\n\\n_ ) <(hg cat -r 65621e821c02 bin/starwars | tr \|\"\ \\n\\n_ )))
17:18:48 <HackEgo> -BB-8 -BB-9E -Beru_Lars +Benu_Lars -Biggs_Darklighter -Captain_Panaka -DJ -Darth_Bane -Darth_Plagueis -Doctor_Cornelius_Evazan -Count_Dooku +Dooku -General_Armitage_Hux -Lor_San_Tekka -Nien_Nunb -Ponda_Baba -Rose_Tico -Sab\x{e9} -Unkar_Plutt -Vice_Admiral_Amilyn_Holdo -the_Reek -or_die;for(1..($ARGV[0] -1)){print_splice(@c,rand@c,1), +or_die;pri
17:19:36 <int-e> oh, I guess that wasn't the right order. but anyway
17:28:04 <int-e> b_jonas: so how about http://sprunge.us/ZNHK
17:31:31 <b_jonas> int-e: can work, sure, as long as you're careful about not accidentally having an extra empty line.
17:31:42 <b_jonas> feel free to replace the command impl
17:31:45 <int-e> `` seq 3 | sed '/^2/a2.5'
17:32:21 <int-e> And something like that could solve the maintanence problem if you want to keep it sorted.
17:32:29 <b_jonas> also, I wonder how the command should handle people with two names, like Emperor Palpatine vs Darth Sidious
17:32:46 <b_jonas> int-e: I originally sorted it to find dupes quickly
17:32:55 <b_jonas> no need to keep it sorted really
17:33:06 <b_jonas> computers are good at sorting small files on the fly to find dups
17:33:18 <int-e> anyway basically I had to remind myself how this embedded data worked in Perl
17:33:37 <int-e> I'm not a stakeholder in bin/starwars so I won't mess with it
17:33:39 <b_jonas> int-e: you don't really need *DATA just to have newlines
17:33:55 <int-e> I wanted it to be at the end of the file as well
17:33:58 <b_jonas> you could just have them in a quoted string with newlines in it instead of verticalbars, and then split/^/
17:34:40 <b_jonas> int-e: also, you can just chomp@c; instead of map chomp,@c
17:35:01 <b_jonas> int-e: or like chomp(@c=<DATA>)
17:35:28 <b_jonas> not that the chomping is very useful when you just re-add the newline at printing
17:35:41 <int-e> maybe you forget the final newline ;-)
17:35:55 <int-e> anyway, as I said, I've had my bit of fun
17:35:56 <b_jonas> int-e: or maybe you add an extra one, and then you get a dummy character
18:25:51 <lambdabot> CYQB 021800Z 24004KT 8SM -SN FEW007 SCT017 BKN030 OVC080 M21/M25 A3014 RMK SF1SC3SC3AC2 SF TR VIS NW QUAD 4 SLP218
18:27:19 <lambdabot> EGLL 021820Z AUTO 21009KT 6000 -RA //////TCU 10/08 Q1000 NOSIG
18:27:41 <fizzie> There's YELLOW WARNING OF WIND for the next 24 hours or so.
18:28:52 <fizzie> It's not, but maybe it should.
18:29:11 <boily> fizziello. slashy weather much?
18:29:37 <fizzie> U+1F343 LEAF FLUTTERING IN WIND is probably the closest Unicode gets.
18:30:44 <fizzie> It's a named storm (Eleanor) that's coming, apparently.
18:48:45 <int-e> shachaf: cauldrons are weird
18:53:32 <int-e> fizzie: best of luck with that
18:54:13 <int-e> fungot: what do you think of power outages?
18:54:13 <fungot> int-e: eating crunchy vegetables is good for language a, and returns another function, the control is guided a priority queue that doesn't copy with constant time insertion and removal?
18:54:40 <int-e> fungot: I was hoping for a more filtered braindump :)
18:54:41 <fungot> int-e: i write kludgy code for our cookbook, so on lunch tommarow, i'll browse through it now. out of work
18:55:34 <int-e> Well at least it's not a f***d
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18:58:22 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm, yes, I should go back to that world
18:59:04 <shachaf> int-e: Green exits too me a little while to make intuitive sense of, but it was straightforward once I made a programming analogy
18:59:17 <int-e> and so far I've managed to avoid the "dream within a dream" achievement
18:59:41 <int-e> (basically because I try to keep track of the stack myself and get confused when it gets too deep)
18:59:45 <int-e> the 20 levels of nesting
19:00:30 <int-e> and when I do get confused I tend to restart :P
19:00:54 <shachaf> Presumably it's easy to get artificially?
19:01:33 <int-e> there are plenty of rooms with a box leading back to the same room again
19:01:37 <shachaf> Often with the green chest levels I jump into the same chest several times just in case
19:04:51 <int-e> I understand even though it's not always a good strategy :P
19:05:53 <shachaf> Why not, if you remember how many levels of meeting?
19:06:01 <shachaf> I guess you could accidentally Yeager a patient
19:06:37 <int-e> I guess it's fine if you can remember well enough.
19:07:30 <int-e> and in any case I do something similar when I find a factory
19:07:49 <int-e> (a box from which one can repeatedly extract the same item)
19:09:12 <int-e> `learn Recursed is a game of surprising depth.
19:09:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'recursed': Recursed is a game of surprising depth.
19:11:00 <shachaf> int-e: I mean, accidentally trigger a paradox
19:11:20 <int-e> shachaf: Yeah, that was what I had in mind.
19:22:42 <shachaf> int-e: Did you do, uh, I don't remember what that one level is called
19:22:49 <shachaf> I think it's in the last set
19:24:18 <int-e> the void? I have only solved the first level there
19:24:35 <int-e> (and I don't have the game running right now)
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21:50:50 <zzo38> Probably the HTML DOM JavaScript function I use most often is document.evaluate(), and to use .getAttribute() and .setAttribute() on the resulting items.
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22:51:44 <lambdabot> EGLL 022220Z AUTO 21017G27KT 5000 -RA BKN009 BKN017 OVC026TCU 12/11 Q0990 TEMPO 3000 +RA BKN008
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22:51:56 <fizzie> Guess it's windier, but not really windy yet.
22:53:29 <lambdabot> KOAK 022153Z 30005KT 8SM FEW065 BKN150 OVC250 13/09 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP205 T01330089 $
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23:00:42 <fizzie> (Our interwebs are being a little flaky, hence the fungot-hopping.)
23:00:42 <fungot> fizzie: i'm having a religious experience right now!!!
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01:13:48 <HackEgo> ysaclist 70: boily shachaf
01:26:52 <int-e> shachaf: okay I solved Escalate
01:27:19 <shachaf> Oh, I don't think I solved that one.
01:27:35 <shachaf> (I guess redacting that is pretty useless.)
01:27:45 <shachaf> I should get this game running again.
01:30:18 * int-e is only after the normal crystals right now anyway, no diamonds, no rubies (I don't even know how to get the latter)
01:30:38 <int-e> according to the available achievements.
01:31:00 <shachaf> I played through most of the game before realizing that a level could have both a diamond and an amethyst.
01:31:14 <shachaf> Whenever I ran into a paradox I thought it was the only solution to a level.
01:38:34 <zzo38> Is it possible to fix bash so that when using wild cards, if any matching filenames have a minus sign at first it will list those files at the end instead of at the beginning? That way it can reduce interference with programs that use a minus sign to indicate a switch, if they are implemented so that switches must come before filenames.
01:40:38 <shachaf> zzo38: That doesn't seem like a good idea because it doesn't work if every file starts with a minus sign.
01:41:13 <zzo38> Yes, of course, there is that; I did think of that. Still, it is one thing.
01:41:14 <shachaf> If it can't be foolproof, it's probably a bad idea to hide that.
01:41:34 <zzo38> But, I suppose you can also write ./* and that also helps
01:41:50 <zzo38> Maybe you are correct, though.
01:43:58 <shachaf> Another thing is that command line argument handling is very different between command, and I don't like putting that kind of special logic in the shell.
01:45:35 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose you are right. Many program I write has the syntax that it cannot be confused in this way (although, some programs work differently).
01:46:14 <shachaf> I would prefer command line arguments to be more structured than a list of strings.
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03:16:24 <zzo38> Now I got a 500 error when trying to send to sprunge
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06:44:32 <zzo38> I thought how to make a better simple printing protocol
06:44:46 <zzo38> aaronduino: I don't know.
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08:46:11 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53737&oldid=53736 * YuvalM * (+110) /* x = x != y */ added another algorithm
08:47:05 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53738&oldid=53737 * YuvalM * (+11) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */ made temp0 start as 0
08:48:05 <esowiki> [[User talk:YuvalM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53739 * YuvalM * (+0) Created blank page
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12:15:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: re bash and accidental hyphens from wildcards, old versions used to store the indexes of arguments that come from wildcard extension, and then glibc's getopt magically knew that those arguments weren't options. but that was the wrong solution IMO, and can blow up into your face with programs that don't respect that. just use a ./ prefix, or a -- argument.
12:15:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: also, "list those files at the end" won't work with glibc's getopt_long, which accepts options after ordinary arguments, unlike the bsd utilities.
12:16:18 <b_jonas> and some shell scripts rely on the wildcard expansion results being sorted, which is documented.
12:21:59 <b_jonas> Oh, and one problem with the environment variable solution is that environment vars are usually inherited by subprocesses.
12:22:35 <b_jonas> Although perhaps glibc, which implements execv, could make that one non-inheriting
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16:23:59 <garit> https://i.imgur.com/nGGI77r.png - raytracing 1mln rays from a point above the screen. I expected to see a circle of light but i see square. whos guilty? prng, line-to-plane intersection algorithm, something else?
16:26:01 <int-e> garit: that list seems pretty comprehensive
16:26:46 <int-e> but meh if I had to guess the ray direction is sampled from a cube
16:26:47 <garit> Okay, will check this list =)
16:27:23 <garit> Ray direction is a fixed point (0;0;0) and linear congruential generator making 3 more coordinates for a second point
16:27:58 <int-e> that's what I had in mind
16:28:52 <int-e> if you pick a point uniformly from [-1,1]^3 then the directions towards the corners are overrepresented (density is proportional to the distance of the cube's boundary to the center)
16:29:11 <garit> Ahhh, i see, didnt think of this
16:29:19 <int-e> (so corners are a factor of sqrt(3) more dense than the centers of the cube)
16:29:43 <int-e> a possible solution is to discard samples outside of the unit sphere.
16:30:06 <int-e> centers of the cube faces, I meant to write
16:30:16 <int-e> before my mind wondered off and... shiny!
16:30:48 <garit> I see, i agree it will work but its expensive (to do a distance check for every ray)
16:37:18 <int-e> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SpherePointPicking.html has some other suggestions (none of them look *very* cheap)
16:38:54 <int-e> (I think the distance check isn't all that bad really; three squarings, two additions, one comparison, success rate 0.523)
16:55:57 <garit> I forgot about that i can square the distance too, was expecting sqrt
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17:00:18 <garit> https://imgur.com/gallery/dGj8Q yay! It works
17:01:12 <garit> int-e: thank you =) i wouldnt find this detail by myself for a long time, its so specific
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17:15:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mr Meems * New user account
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18:26:53 <\oren\> wait so most of the servers across the entire planet need to reboot?
18:27:25 <\oren\> and most of the cloud is going to lose 30% of its capacity
18:27:41 <\oren\> I'm glad I bought server time in advance
18:29:57 <shachaf> Don't servers reboot all the time?
18:31:01 <\oren\> 18:35:53 up 128 days, 18:03, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
18:31:54 <shachaf> Well, anything at any significant scale.
18:34:27 <\oren\> I have instanced reserved until 2019 paid up fornt
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20:03:58 <wob_jonas> So I injured my ankle on New Year when coming down the steep stairs with a bag. I was at the doctor today, and he says the status effect probably times out in four to six weeks.
20:08:48 <wob_jonas> Luckily the more annoying primary effect, which reduced my movement speed, was gone in one and a half day, so now I'm just dealing with minor restrictions of movement of my foot, plus I have to be very careful not to get injured again.
20:12:11 <wob_jonas> The social security in this country doesn't pay for magical cures, so I have to wait the timeout.
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21:21:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53740&oldid=53726 * Mr Meems * (+343) /* Introductions */
21:21:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53741&oldid=53740 * Mr Meems * (+85) /* Introductions */
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22:02:03 <esowiki> [[User:Mr Meems]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53742 * Mr Meems * (+239) First text
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22:22:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Unt * New user account
22:23:12 <int-e> fungot: what do you think?
22:23:12 <fungot> int-e: might be easier to just fail and stop trying to be too painful to explore
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22:30:37 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53743&oldid=53741 * Unt * (+271) /* Introductions */
22:32:33 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53744&oldid=24235 * Unt * (+10) Corrected bug
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22:43:44 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53745&oldid=53744 * Unt * (-4) Yet another bug.
22:52:03 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53746&oldid=53745 * Unt * (+28) What about that "if the current cell is marked"? Otherwise, there's no way to read from the tape, so no turing-completeness!
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23:04:31 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53747&oldid=53746 * Unt * (+292) And finally some way to initialize the tape, which is the only way to give the program any input.
23:05:10 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53748&oldid=53747 * Unt * (+11) Sorry for that...
23:05:34 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53749&oldid=53748 * Unt * (+4) And for that...
23:24:23 <int-e> shachaf: I earned a ruby... I didn't mean to.
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23:27:23 <shachaf> Would it be a big spoiler to say how?
23:28:23 <int-e> It has to do with cauldrons, but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
23:29:20 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't do too much in that world
23:30:48 <int-e> What I'm really trying to do is collect all normal crystals... I have them for the standard levels and Oobleck Conundrum.
23:36:29 <int-e> well, no... not really.
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01:46:48 <\oren\> GOD THIS EXPLOIT IS SO SIMPLE
01:48:23 <\oren\> "access a one of 256 memory pages based on a byte of kerbal memory. although the access will throw an exception, that page will be in cache and the others won't, which is detectable."
01:49:42 <\oren\> this is a basically all computers newer than an Amiga
01:52:27 <\oren\> and their code is bascially
01:53:25 <\oren\> char *addr=KERNEL_ADDR;
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01:54:36 <\oren\> Oh they have a loop too
01:55:33 <\oren\> int x=0;do x=a[*addr<<12];while(!x);
02:11:50 <int-e> okay, this confirms previous speculation that they made https://cyber.wtf/2017/07/28/negative-result-reading-kernel-memory-from-user-mode/ work
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02:27:32 <boily> also, he\\オレン＼. could you enthicken the radical of 砲 please?
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02:29:46 <quintopia> @ask boilyif you had to choose between living somewhere the temp is always below freezing or always above 35C, which would you pick
02:33:58 <ais523> definitely <0 for me, even 25°C is really painful to cope with and <0 is, if not normal here, frequent enough that I'm used to it
02:35:50 <shachaf> i'm sure boilyif will have a good insight on this hth
02:46:28 <oerjan> quintopia: poor boilyif will be so confused
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02:48:29 <quintopia> @ask boily if you had to choose between living somewhere the temp is always below freezing or always above 35C, which would you pick
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02:53:49 <moony> We need to make a esoteric language based on speculative execution. Only way to get work done is to make it speculatively execute up to 10 bytes of code
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05:10:19 <shachaf> oerjan: do you have anything to do with http://www.hthworldwide.net/ twh
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05:23:02 <variable> shachaf: you're in other channels I'm in :-)
05:23:22 <variable> the only reasonable explanation: you're stalking me
05:24:00 <shachaf> but i was here first, and you already knew i was here
05:27:33 <variable> shachaf: but, but, what about my persecution complex?
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05:54:29 <oerjan> variable: rest assured that we only persecute people who deserve it, like the paranoid hth
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12:02:44 <lambdabot> quintopia asked 9h 14m 15s ago: if you had to choose between living somewhere the temp is always below freezing or always above 35C, which would you pick
12:03:29 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! above. I won't be confortable, but it's more colourful.
12:03:45 <boily> the horror... 21 best temp!
12:05:48 <lambdabot> LOWI 041150Z 27005KT 230V300 4000 RASN FEW002 SCT010 BKN017 00/00 Q1006 R08/29//95 TEMPO SNRA SCT010 BKN013
12:17:01 <lambdabot> CYUL 041200Z 02008KT 8SM -SN BKN045 OVC065 M12/M15 A2991 RMK SC7SC1 PRESFR SLP135
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12:19:06 <int-e> . o O ( IT'S A WRAP! )
12:26:10 <garit> Always above +35*C (even at night) is deadly for high humidity - body cant cool down. While below 0*C is easy - just some insulation/clothes will fix it
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13:13:48 <b_jonas> always above +20 during the night already sucks. always above +25 during the day only could work in theory, but if you have always above +30 during the day, then in two or three weeks, the nights will be above +20 too, and even always above +25 during the day has some risk with that.
13:14:08 <b_jonas> I can't sleep well when the nights are too hot for more than a few days.
13:22:08 <b_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20180103.html
13:22:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found
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20:43:31 <int-e> I want something like +10 during nights, +20 during days.
20:47:05 <garit2> int-e: now you are surrounded by indians/africans who came there too because of the good climate. Whats your next step?
20:47:45 <int-e> garit2: I don't understand the question.
20:48:21 <int-e> (I carry on with my life.)
20:48:38 <\oren\> the pointer always has lowest 3 bits 0
20:48:41 <\oren\> so he figures, why not use those to store some metadata
20:48:50 <\oren\> thus ruining everything forever
20:48:51 <int-e> So how much did Bannon pay Trump for the advertisment?
20:48:52 <garit2> 'I want x temp' -> 'i would move to a place with x temp' -> 'i would have to deal with other people who live there' -> 'dealing with people who used to live in a good climate is hard(crime level is higher)'
20:52:12 <int-e> I don't like where this discussion is heading. But anyway, I strongly believe that this connection is overstated.
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21:34:18 <zzo38> This is a simple printing protocol I made up now: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/simple_print Please to review this and write whatever question/comment/complaint you have.
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22:16:28 <zzo38> They said that if you go to the hotel and try to print a file from your computer, they only accept Microsoft Word files. But, you might not be using Microsoft Word. So, with support for this new protocol will be better (in addition, they should also have an internal fax line, as an alternative way to print). This does not mean they should remove what they already have.
22:19:20 <ais523> can't you just use an .odt file? most word processors should be able to produce one of those, and Microsoft Word can read it
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22:21:55 <zzo38> I suppose yes you could (you could even use .txt which Microsoft Word can also read I think), but still it might not be what you wanted; for example, you might be using TeX. This new protocol it doesn't care what program you are using
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22:28:12 <zzo38> The existence of the MFM record is not meant to imply that you are necessarily using METAFONT.
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22:28:40 <zzo38> Did you read this document?
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23:14:04 <wob_jonas> ais523: have you seen tom7's video that he claims tries to explain some proof to beginners, but actually it doesn't? if so, do you also think that involving that linear logic thing is a huge overkill?
23:14:30 <ais523> linear logic is interesting, whether it's overkill or not depends on what the proof is about
23:14:41 <ais523> but "full" linear logic is fairly ridiculous and I don't really enjoy it
23:14:46 <ais523> fragments tend to work much better
23:15:14 <wob_jonas> wtf, how come nobody (on this chan apparently) looks at his content?
23:15:34 <shachaf> But I haven't seen that particular video.
23:15:44 <wob_jonas> ais523: this is a fragment. but it's still an overkill for what he's doing there I think.
23:17:59 <wob_jonas> what he's proving is that there's an algorithm (no runtime bounds claimed) for some problem. he's reducing it to a recent result that there's an algorithm solving satisfyability on some particular fragment of linear logic. but the problem is so simple he could just do a couple of multiplications to produce an upper bound, then a graph traversal to
23:17:59 <wob_jonas> see if there's a path between two points.
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23:19:21 <ais523> "graph traversal to see if there's a path between two points" is actually the defining problem of a particular complexity class
23:20:01 <wob_jonas> The problem is basically that the input gives natural number n, two vectors of natural numbers a and b of length n, and a set of vectors of integers S of length n; then
23:20:50 <wob_jonas> you consider the infinite symmetric graph whose nodes are the n-vectors of natural numbers (nonnegative is important), and there's an edge between two nodes if their difference is in S, then the problem asks if there's a path between a and b.
23:21:45 <wob_jonas> You solve this by multiplying everything to give a bound above which the nonnegativity condition is unimportant, and then searching a path on the finite subset of the graph cut there.
23:21:46 <ais523> that's equivalent to asking "can you repeatedly add/subtract elements of S in order to convert a into b", isn't it?
23:22:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, but going through only all nonnegative states.
23:22:26 <ais523> oh, and elements of S can be negative?
23:22:30 <wob_jonas> The simple algorithm is like double-exponential or triple-exponential, but who cares.
23:22:41 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, elements of S can have mixed signs
23:22:57 <wob_jonas> actually I defined the problem slightly wrong
23:23:18 <wob_jonas> but not too much I think, a simple algorithm still works
23:23:44 <wob_jonas> it's still just some traversal of some huge periodic symmetric graph
23:24:10 <wob_jonas> that's not, like, turing-complete because of fractran, is it?
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23:25:00 <ais523> wob_jonas: it becomes a problem of computing a basis of a vector space once you get rid of the problem with negatives
23:25:26 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, but you can't ignore the negatives
23:26:35 <wob_jonas> hmm... now I'm no longer sure. maybe the simple algorithm only works if n=1, and he definitely wants the n>1 case
23:27:32 <wob_jonas> but I still think this graph is simple enough that you can compute an upper bound, even for n>1
23:27:41 <wob_jonas> I'll have to try to make a definite proof and ask tom7
23:27:48 <wob_jonas> it's just some stupid number theory
23:28:41 <ais523> wob_jonas: let's see, I see two distinct cases here
23:29:05 <wob_jonas> I don't think there's a polynomial algorithm btw, but that wasn't the question
23:29:39 <ais523> a) finitely many elements are reachable from a, b) infinitely many elements are reachable from a
23:30:06 <ais523> b) implies you can reach some vector with every element ≥ the corresponding element of a
23:30:14 <ais523> and a) can be determined by brute force
23:31:17 <ais523> so the only interesting case here from a computability point of view is the boundary case where you have b) but cannot have it with a strict equality (i.e. you can't reach a vector where every element is > the corresponding element of a)
23:31:34 <ais523> and even then, it's probably possible to have a hybrid between the two cases somehow
23:31:51 <wob_jonas> wait, did you say "computing a basis of a vector space"? that doesn't sound right
23:32:13 <wob_jonas> this needs lattice basises, not vector space basises
23:32:52 <ais523> wob_jonas: if you can reach a vector where every element is > the corresponding element of the original
23:33:08 <ais523> then you can use a vector space basis as you can just do the same sequence over and over again to make the elements as high as you like, then reverse it later
23:33:16 <ais523> err, you need to be able to do this for both a and b
23:33:21 <wob_jonas> what vector space is there even here?
23:33:40 <wob_jonas> this is all integers in the vectors
23:34:08 <ais523> although, hmm, a basis with multiplying by integers may be distinct from one which allows rationals/reals
23:34:28 <ais523> you might want to read up on integer programming
23:35:14 <ais523> I was looking at this a while back because I wanted to write a program that deduced the constants of an unknown LCRNG from its sequence
23:35:15 <wob_jonas> darn, I'll definitely need to think about this and write a full proof
23:35:20 <ais523> this is actually really difficult, I think it might be NP-complete
23:35:49 <ais523> and the existing algorithms for getting a good performance in the common case are really complex and I kind-of broke down halfway through trying to implement them
23:35:56 <ais523> and I'm not even sure if this case hits the common case
23:36:27 <wob_jonas> I don't see why it's even in NP. But we don't want an efficient algorithm, just an algorithm.
23:36:39 <wob_jonas> I don't even want a single-exponential one.
23:37:01 <ais523> note: the assumption I'm making is that the LCRNG is updated as x_(n+1) = (x_n * a + b) mod c, but we can only observe y_n = floor(x_n / d) mod e
23:37:27 <ais523> we don't know any of a/b/c/d/e, but the value of e is normally obvious anyway, just look at the range of values we see
23:37:41 <ais523> I think I found a way to encode subset sum into this
23:37:48 <ais523> but I can't remember the details now
23:42:57 <int-e> oh, it takes input on stdin
23:43:13 <int-e> `` morse-decode <<<'...-- ....- -.-. ...--'
23:44:07 <HackEgo> 4683:2014-07-03 <FireFl̈y> ` gcc -x c -o bin/morse-decode - <<<\'c, v = 1; main() { while (c = getchar(), ~c) v = c < 33? putchar("& etianmsurwdkgohvf.l.pjbxcyzq..54.3.;!2).+...,16=/:..(.7.?_8.9o\\"...$...@...\'\\\'\'..-"[v < 64? (v != 40)*v : v % 51 + 33]), 1 : v * 2 + c % 2; }\'
23:49:42 <int-e> `` mv {bin,lib}/morse-decode; echo '#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input /hackenv/lib/morse-decode' > bin/morse-decode; chmod +x bin/morse-decode
23:50:26 <int-e> `morse-decode ... --- ...
23:50:35 <int-e> `` morse-decode <<<'... --- ...'
23:53:44 <int-e> FireFly: I'm watching the infrastructure review. :P
23:54:22 <int-e> https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8911-34c3_infrastructure_review
23:55:02 * FireFly only attended a few sessions, should watch the talks that seemed interesting now
23:55:43 <int-e> hours and hours of fun and I wasn't even there.
23:56:23 <FireFly> it was a really nice environment
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00:12:16 <wob_jonas> fungot, have you seen tom7's recent long video?
00:12:16 <fungot> wob_jonas: try manually creating the fsdbm db first,
00:12:57 <int-e> wob_jonas: did you ever link to it?
00:13:51 <wob_jonas> int-e: no. it's https://youtu.be/8_npHZbe3qM linked from most recent entry in http://radar.spacebar.org/ (damned thing doesn't have anchors for posts)
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00:16:20 <int-e> wob_jonas: I may have a look, maybe next week.
00:20:11 <int-e> > let pal xs = reverse xs == xs in pal "stats"
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00:29:51 <int-e> TIL about retpolines. Ugly stuff.
00:30:53 <shachaf> > let pal xs = reverse xs == xs in pal "Ørjan Johansen"
00:33:03 <lambdabot> *** "pal" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:33:03 <lambdabot> n 1: a close friend who accompanies his buddies in their
00:33:03 <lambdabot> activities [syn: {buddy}, {brother}, {chum}, {crony},
00:33:05 <lambdabot> v 1: become friends; act friendly towards [syn: {pal}, {pal up},
00:33:26 <HackEgo> bø:Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway. And not just three, but at least _four_ farms. Ah ah ah ah ah! \ fisherman's friend:Fisherman's Friend is the friend of the palate that is more sore than discerning. \ ghast:A ghast is a palette-swapped higher level copycat of ghoul. \ gray:Gray is e common misspalling of grey. \ ii:Ii is
00:33:58 <int-e> Yeah, I got it. I was checking the names for pals... but there don't seem to be any.
00:34:16 <int-e> iovoid is a close miss
00:35:10 <fizzie> I'm a pal if you increment me by one.
00:43:02 <oerjan> <int-e> `` mv {bin,lib}/morse-decode; echo '#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input /hackenv/lib/morse-decode' > bin/morse-decode; chmod +x bin/morse-decode <-- wait, that works?
00:43:22 <oerjan> `cat bin/shebang_args_or_input
00:43:23 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ interp="$1"; script="$2"; shift 2; if [ "$#" -eq 1 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$1"; elif [ "$#" -eq 0 ]; then cat; fi | { shift; $interp "$script" "$@"; }
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00:43:57 <oerjan> it's not the intended use case, but i guess it works when /hackenv/lib/morse-decode ignores its arguments
00:48:58 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f -iname '*vention*'
00:48:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention \ wisdom/invention \ wisdom/tanebvention \ wisdom/tanebventions: math \ wisdom/tanebventions: food
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00:49:16 <int-e> oerjan: it was inspired by rainwords (sp?)
00:49:48 <HackEgo> #!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w)
00:50:27 <oerjan> int-e: yes, although it's intended for adjusting shebang scripts
00:50:55 <oerjan> `cat bin/print_args_or_input
00:50:56 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi
00:51:05 <oerjan> this one is for shell scripts
00:51:23 <oerjan> and is what i've used in at least one similar case.
00:51:54 <int-e> yeah, I would've used that if I had found it first
00:53:10 <oerjan> `` grep -l -r args_or_input bin/
00:53:18 <HackEgo> bin/h \ bin/noping \ bin/rainwords \ bin/unhex \ bin/morse-decode \ bin/aaaaaaaaa \ bin/döts \ bin/orenbow \ bin/ordu \ bin/rainbow \ bin/lowercase \ bin/scriptadd \ bin/shmify \ bin/sanetemp \ bin/ümläüt \ bin/dedot \ bin/ord \ bin/poulet \ bin/rainbow.old \ bin/zalgo \ bin/rot13 \ bin/insanetemp \ bin/complain
00:53:20 <int-e> ... `` cd bin; grep -rl shebang_args_or_input .
00:53:36 <HackEgo> Culinary tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, weetoflakes, mushrooms, nutella, and cognac.
00:53:52 <HackEgo> cat: nutella: Is a directory
00:54:23 <int-e> `` cd bin; grep -rl shebang_args_or_input .
00:54:24 <HackEgo> ./h \ ./rainwords \ ./morse-decode \ ./rainbow.old \ ./zalgo \ ./rot13
00:54:38 <int-e> (actually I just realized that I was looking for something slightly different)
00:54:58 <HackEgo> nutella/nutetlla? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:55:06 <HackEgo> 11279:2017-12-19 <oerjän> learn nutella//Nutella is a nutty substance. Taneb invented it for use in his automatic squirrel feeders.
00:55:07 <HackEgo> nutella//Nutella is a nutty substance. Taneb invented it for use in his automatic squirrel feeders.
00:55:41 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/nutella/nutella
00:56:07 <oerjan> `learn Nutella is a nutty substance. Taneb invented it for use in his automatic squirrel feeders.
00:56:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'nutella': Nutella is a nutty substance. Taneb invented it for use in his automatic squirrel feeders.
00:56:18 <int-e> `` echo '#! /bin/bash' > bin/morse-decode; echo 'args_or_input | /hackenv/lib/morse-decode' >> bin/morse-decode # for sanity
00:56:42 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/morse-decode: line 2: args_or_input: command not found
00:56:46 <shachaf> oerjan: `learn should detect // in the key twh
00:57:17 <oerjan> . o O ( He sometimes pranks without noticing it. )
00:58:25 <int-e> `sled bin/morse-decode//s=^a=print_a=
00:58:27 <HackEgo> bin/morse-decode//#! /bin/bash \ print_args_or_input | /hackenv/lib/morse-decode
00:59:13 <int-e> `sled bin/morse-decode//s=^p[^ ]*=& "$@"=
00:59:15 <HackEgo> bin/morse-decode//#! /bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | /hackenv/lib/morse-decode
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01:02:53 <int-e> `` cp bin/slwd bin/slbd; sed -i 's=wisdom=bin=;s=wb=bb=' bin/slbd; cat bin/slbd
01:02:55 <HackEgo> bin/slbd//cd bin; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Rosbbud!/' \ cd bin; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Rosbbud!/'
01:05:59 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi
01:07:07 <oerjan> i did that to get sled output for people insisting on using sed -i instead.
01:07:23 <oerjan> (mainly boily at the time)
01:07:55 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
01:08:05 <int-e> "We have decided to power cycle the building. That's easier than resetting each remote device individually."
01:12:20 <int-e> Pity, no Seidenstraße report this year, those were entertaining the last few times.
01:14:12 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
01:14:31 <int-e> (Seidenstraße is the codename for a pneumatic tube network that they have had at the last couple of C3s)
01:17:06 <fizzie> They should have more pneumatic tube networks in general.
01:17:33 <int-e> ah but they do have a (sub)wiki https://events.ccc.de/congress/2017/wiki/index.php/Projects:Seidenstrasse
01:18:03 <oerjan> german for silk road, eh
01:20:14 <int-e> I didn't translate it because it could be confused for that drug marketplace.
01:21:08 <int-e> https://twitter.com/c3seidenstrasse?lang=en has a few pictures.
01:25:24 <fizzie> Some large Finnish grocery stores use those.
01:25:42 <fizzie> The image on http://www.pneumatictubesystems.in/cash_pneumatic_tube_systems.htm is from a Prisma supermarket in Helsinki.
01:27:31 <int-e> I like the safe with the pre-drilled hole :P http://www.pneumatictubesystems.in/IsoKa1.GIF
01:29:00 <fizzie> Actually I thought they use those for the cigarette-buying machine they have at the checkouts. Finnish law says you can't market smoking paraphernalia (including having them displayed for sale), so usually there's a nondescript grid of number buttons (like 1 .. 80), and you need to know the mapping; when you press one, a few seconds later the product drops on the belt.
01:30:07 <fizzie> https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_tupakkalaki#/media/File:Tupakka-automaatti.jpg
01:30:21 <shachaf> fizzie: does fizzif have anything to do with Tanea twh
01:31:03 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't really use "fizzif" for anything hth
01:33:15 <shachaf> sounds suspiciously similar to Tanea so far tdh
01:33:19 <HackEgo> Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd.
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01:35:03 <fizzie> I guess there's variants like that of everyone, then.
01:35:23 <shachaf> but how many of them are pals
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02:29:48 <Sgeo> Just received and signed the Magic Arena NDA
02:29:58 <Sgeo> Two more weeks until I'm in?
02:31:07 <Sgeo> New Magic: the Gathering online game
02:31:34 <Sgeo> https://magic.wizards.com/en/mtgarena
02:31:41 <shachaf> Is it going to replace MODO?
02:33:42 <Sgeo> Not for now. Currently only Standard. Future unclear.
02:34:02 <shachaf> If it's only Standard then clearly it doesn't have Future Sight.
02:55:52 * boily lightly mapoles shachaf. 0.83 FP.
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04:46:52 <zzo38> I had previously written a program "har" for Hamster archiver, but now I also wrote a new program "harex", which executes a shell command for each lump of input. (The lump name is placed in an environment variable so that shell expansion does not interfere with it.)
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07:56:10 <Sgeo> shachaf, Add X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is your life total.
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08:03:15 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/7o3q2b/rix_azors_gateway_sanctum_of_the_sun/
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11:29:06 <b_jonas> `eheroeslist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2550285/im-keeping-my-ion-you/
11:29:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eheroeslist: not found
11:29:28 <b_jonas> after more than half a year of a break, he posted another page
11:29:32 <b_jonas> he's had long breaks before
11:32:34 <b_jonas> int-e: look at the bottom of http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/archive/
11:32:51 <b_jonas> int-e: one page in 2016, six in 2017
11:33:12 <HackEgo> The word "bimonthly" has at least two meanings, although this wisdom only gives about half of one. No matter which expert you follow, you're 50% likely to misinterpret it, or doubly so, depending on the phase of the moon.
11:34:10 <b_jonas> int-e: mind you, I can't complain because I wasn't very productive either this year, and I don't have the excuse of my wife having died recently
11:34:57 <b_jonas> (I mean 2017. 2016 was decent.)
11:35:03 <int-e> `learn biweekly/The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly".
11:35:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'biweekly/the': biweekly/The word "biweekly" is half synonymous with the word --> "bimonthly".
11:37:56 <int-e> (Better ideas welcome, my main objective here was to have a better chance of discovering the "bimonthly" entry)
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13:30:00 <int-e> wtf, firefox automatically reloads modified local files, in a new tab?!
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13:50:23 <b_jonas> I'm still thinking of this tom7 thing and whether there's a simpler proof that there's an algorithm.
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13:51:30 <b_jonas> In fancy terms (you know, wisdom/monad style), his problem is the word problem on commutative monoids presented with a finite set of relations.
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13:54:32 <int-e> Okay, it wasn't the firefox, it was emacs, somehow...
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15:54:02 <int-e> I've completed my Moebius transformation based shader: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/moebius.html
16:00:40 <int-e> the underlying texture is far more boring: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/moebius.png
16:02:52 <APic> int-e: It crashes my System ☹
16:02:57 <APic> Or hangs it completely, at least
16:04:00 <int-e> APic: uh, that wasn't expected or intended... bad graphics drivers perhaps (it's a webgl thing)
16:04:30 <APic> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF119 [GeForce GT 520] (rev a1)
16:04:31 <fizzie> int-e: Now I'm suspicious you put in some Spectre/Meltdown code in there.
16:04:33 <APic> It is darn old
16:05:31 <ais523> fizzie: it's going to take time to have a useful POC that works from JS, I think
16:05:33 <int-e> APic: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/moebius_shot.png
16:06:02 <APic> Graphics-Driver seems to be „nouveau“
16:06:04 <ais523> combining the two exploits would probably work best?
16:06:10 <fizzie> ais523: https://www.react-etc.net/entry/exploiting-speculative-execution-meltdown-spectre-via-javascript
16:06:40 <APic> int-e: Yes, it produces two or three Frames or so here too before it locks up
16:06:45 <ais523> you could use spectre to break the speculative executor out of the JS sandbox via JITting some code that's protected only by a bounds check
16:07:12 <int-e> APic: that's even more unexpected... am I doing something wrong with binding/unbinding stuff, I wonder...
16:07:26 <int-e> APic: but regardless, it shouldn't crash :)
16:07:51 <fizzie> FWIW, Chrome security announcements implied the site isolation feature would mitigate at least some hypothetical things.
16:08:34 <int-e> maybe 2018 is the year where timing properties finally make it into processor specifications...
16:09:00 <ais523> int-e: huh, they always /used/ to be part of the specification
16:09:02 <int-e> (beyond maximal interrupt service times for embedded processors)
16:09:15 <ais523> if you look at, say, a 6502 manual it'll give the exact timing properties of every instruction
16:09:22 <ais523> and these were often exploited in practice for precise delays
16:10:10 <APic> My Kernel Syslog shows a _Lot_ of „nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fifo: INTR 00010000: 00000002“ before the Hang
16:10:20 <APic> Maybe it just spams the dmesg
16:10:21 <int-e> ais523: the latest processor where I've seen exact timing descriptions like that in the intel world was the 486. Everything beyond had cycle counts for the best possible case, i.e. everything cached.
16:11:10 <APic> Seems to be several Hundreds of that Message per Second
16:12:08 <int-e> Basically what happens is that timings for accesses outside the first level cache are unspecified, but people figure out how to extract information from those unspecified timings. That's been going on for several years already, but meltdown/spectre have made it very clear that this isn't just of theoretical interest.
16:13:58 <ais523> that general sort of issue has been around for ages
16:14:05 <ais523> this is more interesting, especially spectre variant 2
16:14:18 <ais523> which basically runs arbitrary code in the speculator via chaining together gadgets using hash collisions in the branch predictor
16:15:14 <int-e> But it's still a timing sidechannel at its core.
16:15:48 <ais523> the timing sidechannel is basically just used to get output from the code as it can't output the usual way
16:15:54 <ais523> I'm not even sure it's the only such sidechannel
16:16:29 <fizzie> "The Speculator" sounds like a superhero/villain name.
16:19:16 <APic> Jan 5 16:59:39 Zarniwoop kernel: [ 173.713097] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fifo: SCHED_ERROR 0a [CTXSW_TIMEOUT]
16:19:19 <APic> Jan 5 16:59:39 Zarniwoop kernel: [ 173.713106] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fifo: gr engine fault on channel 5, recovering...
16:19:23 <APic> Jan 5 16:59:39 Zarniwoop kernel: [ 173.713852] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fifo: INTR 00800000
16:19:26 <APic> Jan 5 16:59:39 Zarniwoop kernel: [ 173.714007] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fifo: INTR 00010000: 00000002
16:19:29 <APic> Then it goes on spamming the last Message endlessly
16:20:02 <ais523> looks like the code was too complex for the GPU but there's a bug in the codepath that would recover from that
16:20:33 <int-e> ais523: I'm under the impression that it is the only one that purely depends on the CPU. Hardware that snoops busses may see interesting stuff as well.
16:21:32 <ais523> performance counters, perhaps?
16:24:45 <int-e> (and they do share the property of being woefully underspecified)
16:24:56 <b_jonas> random link http://www.gwern.net/Turing-complete
16:25:53 <ais523> I can also see the possibility of tying up an execution unit and then determining the fact that that's happened by seeing how a race condition resolves
16:26:08 <ais523> which is not technically the same thing as timing
16:28:25 <b_jonas> ais523: right. you can sort of do timing by quickly increasing a counter in memory from one cpu thread and reading it from another cpu thread. not very reliable unless hyperthreading is enabled and you choose two cpu threads that share their L1 cache, but still works.
16:28:46 <b_jonas> that's abusing multi-thread memory access nondeterminism
16:29:55 <b_jonas> and there are other cpu-dependent ways to detect if something is in some level of cache, without timing or race conditions, like when some instruction sets have an instruction to throw away a cache line without writing it back to the slower cache or ram
16:30:52 <ais523> maybe you could do something similar with self-modifying code
16:31:25 <b_jonas> ais523: hmm... that would be harder in practice IMO
16:33:59 <b_jonas> ais523: you could also abuse the x86 transactional memory instructions, which make some internal details observable (though generally you're supposed to write code in a way that those details cancel out in the end)
16:34:12 <b_jonas> obviously that only works on new enough cpus that have them
16:34:42 <b_jonas> and yes, performance counters are obviously the easiest way
16:34:54 <b_jonas> intel cpus have a rich set of them
16:37:15 <b_jonas> but generally only the people who work on optimizing low-level stuff use them
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17:41:12 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53750&oldid=53749 * Unt * (-3) The interpolation algorithm was incorrect. Also, it's spelled "interpolate".
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18:22:49 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53751&oldid=53750 * Unt * (+28) Well, this is no good for programs with lots of decimal places, but otherwise floating-point precision error would mess up with everything. Note also that int(x) truncates floats towards 0.
18:25:26 <int-e> another variant: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/moebius8.html
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19:53:02 <HackEgo> H4!b5at+kWls-8yh4Guq? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:53:18 <ais523> somehow I'm not surrpised there were no results for that
19:53:44 <shachaf> Even though HackEgo is case-insensitive?
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20:54:40 <HackEgo> markdown//The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
20:58:56 <zzo38> Is there a way to emit messages to the "dmesg" in user mode in Linux?
21:01:21 <ais523> zzo38: look at the man page syslog(3)
21:01:51 <ais523> that should explain how it works
21:03:03 <ais523> huh, this thing has a parameter value specfically for use by Usenet servers
21:04:19 <ais523> however I don't think dmesg specifically reads syslog output; it might be the other way round, e.g. dmesg is one of the inputs to syslog
21:06:23 <zzo38> I would think Usenet would have a separate log file
21:06:45 <ais523> right, actually syslog(3) is probably responsible for writing mail.log
21:06:54 <ais523> which explains how all the email-related programs can write to the same file
21:10:05 <zzo38> It says dmesg is for kernel ring buffer. Is it possible for user programs to write to that?
21:14:19 <zzo38> What is a good way to run a NNTP server? I would want to find a suitable one, and run a Unusenet server (I could run Usenet as well, although as far as I know, I am not authorized to do that).
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22:03:03 <zzo38> Do some computer programs that use punch cards to allow later columns of the card to override earlier columns in order that you can alter the data without needing a fresh card until it is full?
22:04:41 <int-e> flash card technology
22:05:18 <ais523> zzo38: they normally use a different method: if you punch every hole in a column then the column is treated as not existing, then you can put more data on the rest of the card to override it
22:07:31 <zzo38> Ah, OK. (Still, some programs may require specific columns to be used, in which case that doesn't help so much)
22:08:21 <ais523> this is why ASCII has a DEL character with code 127
22:08:22 <zzo38> (And MIX does not even have the mechanism you mentioned)
22:08:40 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, I have read before, that is why ASCII has that. (Still, punch cards don't normally use ASCII, though)
22:08:51 <ais523> right, ASCII was more for tape than card
22:13:04 <zzo38> The calendar program I write for MIX, allows you to override the year number (and only the year number) by punching additional holes into more columns; you do not need to repunch the entire columns previously used for the year (which may damage the structure of the cards maybe; but even if it doesn't, the computer is not necessarily compatible with punching an entire column, since MIX doesn't require that to work)
22:16:14 <zzo38> Actually you can do this for the text as well, just due to how it is working; later text on the same line of the same day will override previous texts, so it does do that too (without any special logic to deal with this).
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22:52:08 <lambdabot> CYUL 052200Z 26020G30KT 1 3/4SM -SN BLSN BKN018 OVC030 M20/M24 A2969 RMK SF5SC3 SLP058
22:54:08 <lambdabot> CYVR 052239Z 08007KT 7SM -RA FEW008 SCT014 BKN018 OVC025 08/08 A2993 RMK SC1SC2SC4SC1 SLP138
22:54:43 <zzo38> Please tell me if you think anything important I may have missed in my printer protocol document
22:55:13 <boily> hezzo38. probably nothing?
22:59:34 <zzo38> Do you know if Microsoft Word will pay attention to page-break CSS properties when importing a HTML file?
23:08:17 <zzo38> The protocol I made up is a simple protocol, which could be used in many places including at a hotel to allow people who stay at a hotel to print from their computer on the hotel's internal network. (I can also recommend having an internal fax line, which is an alternative protocol that can also be used for printing.)
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00:09:35 <boily> zzo38: I... think so? but I don't know.
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00:25:44 <oerjan> . o O ( the chickens are restless )
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00:41:47 <int-e> Ah, there goes the predictable VM reboot.
01:03:27 <oerjan> so, i assume today's xkcd is pretty much right that we're doomed.
01:05:24 <zzo38> That is the problem with these design they design the computer too much complicated
01:06:21 <ais523> that analogy isn't quite right, but it's a good one
01:06:50 <ais523> it's more like the phantom trolley only goes one way, but you can direct where it goes by flapping butterflies at it
01:09:17 <zzo38> Can't you make simpler computer designs that do not have these problems?
01:10:35 <ais523> zzo38: yes but they don't run very fast
01:10:51 <ais523> although rowhammer is not really a problem of simplicity but size
01:11:09 <ais523> in fact it's normally fixed by making the memory more complex, to detect rowhammered bits and put them back to normal
01:12:16 <zzo38> Does SRAM have that problem too?
01:13:12 <ais523> I think so, it might be more resistant to it though because the voltage levels for the bits are further apart
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01:14:51 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I dunno, but I think the problem with SRAM is that if you want a lot of it (like for gigabyte sized main rams) then it needs a ten times bigger chip than DRAM. so SRAM is used only for smaller pieces of memory.
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01:16:50 <zzo38> Well, I still think it is going to be simpler than DRAM, it look like, to me.
01:17:10 <zzo38> (Since DRAM require refresh timings and so on, and if it is not the same as the instruction timing then it won't work.)
01:18:46 <wob_jonas> Just imagine needing a ten times bigger RAM card than your PC has now.
01:19:26 <int-e> great, lb is coming back
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01:22:50 <wob_jonas> ais523: I have to admit, tom7's word problem question turns out to be more complicated than I thought. I tried to think about it, and I couldn't really figure out a simple solution yet.
01:23:02 <wob_jonas> I still think he's using too big a gun, but still
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05:14:36 <esowiki> [[Neg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53752 * HereToAnnoy * (+5846) Created page "Neg" about a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad language. Ooooh, just like all my other languages!
05:15:58 <esowiki> [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53753&oldid=53223 * HereToAnnoy * (+145) Added link to Neg
05:22:08 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53754&oldid=53090 * HereToAnnoy * (-112) soon? probably not soon... + "professionalism"
06:00:31 <esowiki> [[Neg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53755&oldid=53752 * HereToAnnoy * (+36) Derp - entered wrong functions by mistake
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11:43:33 <HackEgo> 1/1:metaturing//This wisdom entry was crushed by a falling anvil. \ precious//precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ hexham//Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico. \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯//¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°_o)/¯ of urbandictionary \ zzo38mtg.php//http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php
11:43:35 <HackEgo> 1/1:metaturing//This wisdom entry was crushed by a falling anvil. \ precious//precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ hexham//Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico. \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯//¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°_o)/¯ of urbandictionary \ zzo38mtg.php//http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php
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14:42:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 061437Z 25020G29KT 1 1/2SM R24L/5500VP6000FT/N -SN BLSN OVC035 M23/M28 A3003 RMK SC8 SLP176
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14:47:18 <quintopia> also urbandictionary is misspelled in that shruggie entry
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15:01:52 <boily> cooking cookies, then off to girlfriend!
15:27:15 <quintopia> but i already made some pastry pie crust this morning
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16:52:16 <boily> hello hello hello ♪
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16:59:44 <variable> I don't think people liked boily's musci
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17:14:31 <wob_jonas> Wait wait wait. This one is actually important.
17:14:44 <wob_jonas> http://www.ioccc.org/index.html "The 25th IOCCC will be open from 2017-Dec-29 05:38:51 UTC to 2018-Feb-28 05:29:15 UTC."
17:21:00 <wob_jonas> It seems like it hasn't been ioccclisted yet.
17:21:07 <wob_jonas> `ioccclist http://www.ioccc.org/index.html "The 25th IOCCC will be open from 2017-Dec-29 05:38:51 UTC to 2018-Feb-28 05:29:15 UTC."
17:21:09 <HackEgo> ioccclist http://www.ioccc.org/index.html "The 25th IOCCC will be open from 2017-Dec-29 05:38:51 UTC to 2018-Feb-28 05:29:15 UTC.": b_jonas
17:21:48 <int-e> https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/forums/news/announcements/132642-epic-services-stability-update <-- I guess game servers are a workload with lots of system call *and* significant memory use.
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19:52:05 <asdfbot> SyntaxError: Unexpected identifier
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20:23:28 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53756&oldid=53751 * Unt * (+644) Rewritten with no floating-point arithmetic. All numbers are expressed as s*10**e, and operations are arranged so that they always give integer results.
20:28:03 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53757&oldid=53756 * Unt * (+5) Grammar
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20:56:57 <esowiki> [[Obfuscated Tiny C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53758&oldid=46966 * B jonas * (+90)
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21:01:20 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53759&oldid=53738 * YuvalM * (+558) Added another algorithm, z =MUX(a, x, y)
21:01:50 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53760&oldid=53759 * YuvalM * (-10) /* z = MUX(a, x, y) (boolean, logical) */
21:03:57 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53761&oldid=53760 * YuvalM * (+0) /* z = MUX(a, x, y) (boolean, logical) */ trying to find the correct colspan, urgh
21:09:06 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53762&oldid=53761 * YuvalM * (+136) /* z = MUX(a, x, y) (boolean, logical) */ elaborted a bit, added an example.
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22:25:40 <fizzie> Aw. They added nftables 0.8 as a backport for Debian stretch, but even though the nftables docs hyped the "you only have to update the userspace tools to enjoy new features" properties, it definitely looks like the thing I'm trying to do doesn't work on stretch.
22:31:39 <moony> does HackEgo have a Intel CPU on the server?
22:31:55 <moony> `cat /proc/sysinfo
22:31:56 <HackEgo> cat: /proc/sysinfo: No such file or directory
22:32:04 <HackEgo> 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms \ kcore \ kmsg \ kpageco
22:32:16 <HackEgo> Architecture: x86_64 \ CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit \ Byte Order: Little Endian \ CPU(s): 1 \ On-line CPU(s) list: 0 \ Thread(s) per core: 1 \ Core(s) per socket: 1 \ Socket(s): 1 \ Vendor ID: User Mode Linux \ Model name: UML \ BogoMIPS: 1895.62 \ Hyperviso
22:32:38 <moony> hypervisor. Has HackEgo been updated to patch Meltdown yet? :P
22:32:57 <fizzie> int-e: WDYT, are CloudAtSevereCost going to be real active in getting their infrastructure patched?
22:33:06 <int-e> `` lscpu | sed 's= *= '
22:33:08 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 7: unterminated `s' command
22:33:17 <int-e> `` lscpu | sed 's= *= ='
22:33:18 <HackEgo> Architecture: x86_64 \ CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit \ Byte Order: Little Endian \ CPU(s): 1 \ On-line CPU(s) list: 0 \ Thread(s) per core: 1 \ Core(s) per socket: 1 \ Socket(s): 1 \ Vendor ID: User Mode Linux \ Model name: UML \ BogoMIPS: 1875.96 \ Hypervisor vendor: VMware \ Virtualization type: ful
22:33:31 <int-e> `` lscpu | sed 's= *= =g'
22:33:32 <HackEgo> Architecture: x86_64 \ CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit \ Byte Order: Little Endian \ CPU(s): 1 \ On-line CPU(s) list: 0 \ Thread(s) per core: 1 \ Core(s) per socket: 1 \ Socket(s): 1 \ Vendor ID: User Mode Linux \ Model name: UML \ BogoMIPS: 1895.62 \ Hypervisor vendor: VMware \ Virtualization type: full
22:34:04 <int-e> fizzie: I don't know, there's a chance that they'll be amazing and get around to it some time this year?
22:34:59 * int-e is assembling Minsky machines in Isabelle, fun.
22:35:10 <int-e> Completely free of side channels.
22:35:55 <fizzie> I should probably reboot the wiki host, actually, since the Debian KPTI patch is out.
22:36:38 <moony> Probably should :P
22:36:42 <fizzie> Will be interesting to see if the wiki-to-IRC gateway comes back up right.
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22:39:07 <fizzie> Well, what do you know, I didn't even have to do anything.
22:39:30 <fizzie> Missed three lines from the logs though. :/
22:39:45 <fizzie> (Four if you count the quit.)
22:39:53 <int-e> fizzie: hmm, so 4.9.0-5 would contain the mitigation?
22:40:25 <fizzie> int-e: That's what the changelog sounded like.
22:40:27 <moony> i wonder, is the patch backported far enough to fix hackego, or you want to try getting 4.14 to work? (I got 4.12 to work a while ago under UMLBox)
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22:41:38 <moony> or do you want to let us ruin HackEgo from inside out using Meltdown and Spectre? :P
22:42:46 <int-e> Does the uml even contain any worthwhile secrets?
22:44:16 <fizzie> No, but I wouldn't be surprised if (a) the KPTI mitigation wouldn't really apply to UML, and (b) you could read the real kernel memory.
22:45:31 <int-e> I mean all that leaking information isn't going to escalate your privileges. You should be able, in principle, to dump the kernel and find something to exploit to get the rights of the running user...
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22:46:01 <int-e> ...which I'd hope is another sandbox (at least a chroot).
22:48:28 <fizzie> I assume you could discover email addresses and hashed passwords of wiki users. I should probably look into cleaning up anything sensitive from there.
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00:00:14 <zzo38> Now I managed to write a program that can read RPG Maker XYZ picture files. Since I do not use RPG Maker, the only file I have found is, I found a copy of RPG_RT.EXE, and then extract the file ".rsrc/XYZ/LOGO1" from it using 7-Zip; that is the only one I have.
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00:11:38 <fungot> boily: that's really all chez's modules are, interesting. how do you do that? and as i understand, sicp is at http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/
00:14:05 <zzo38> This program uses LodePNG even though it isn't PNG; LodePNG also includes a zlib decoder. The format is simple: Starts by "XYZ1" and then small-endian 16-bit width and then height, and then a zlib stream, when decompressed results in the 256 colours palette (three bytes per entry, RGB), and then the raster data.
00:14:50 <zzo38> I have a Christmas tree one of the birds is missing; the other bird is too big for that small Christmas tree.
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00:36:32 <fungot> ATMunn: formicidae is the entirety of the command to put before the output.
00:36:40 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
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01:21:34 <lambdabot> a * a * (a * a) * (a * a * (a * a)) * (a * a * (a * a) * (a * a * (a * a))) ...
01:21:45 <lambdabot> a * a * (a * a) * (a * a * (a * a)) * (a * a * (a * a) * (a * a * (a * a))) ...
01:22:47 <int-e> > foldr f a [b,c,d]
01:23:30 <int-e> (In particular, Expr has a Num instance that isn't quite law-abiding)
01:25:40 <int-e> boily: this isn't entirely pointless; similar type class tricks allow automated differentiation
01:27:18 <shachaf> int-e: I'm reading Concrete Mathematics and it talks about Rayleigh's theorem
01:28:40 <int-e> @google Rayleigh's theorem
01:28:40 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parseval%27s_theorem
01:29:17 <shachaf> What's this theorem called?
01:29:23 <ATMunn> can someone here explain to me fingerprint semantics in funge-98? the official documentation thing is a bit confusing to me
01:30:05 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatty_sequence
01:30:36 <int-e> I remember that one
01:31:38 <int-e> And it makes much more sense to have that theorem in this particular book than the DFT one.
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01:31:49 <shachaf> It calls these sequences "spectra"
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01:32:05 <shachaf> Or rather it calls the multisets that
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01:33:07 <int-e> Is the spectral test nearby?
01:34:38 <fizzie> ATMunn: Which bit is unclear?
01:35:23 <ATMunn> the main thing that confuses me is what a semantic actually is
01:35:52 <fizzie> Approximately "the thing that an instruction will do".
01:36:17 <ATMunn> when it says that ( pushes "the new fingerprint" onto the stack on a successful load
01:36:25 <fizzie> (I think the use of the term is likely Forth-inspired.)
01:37:03 <ATMunn> what does it mean there by "the new fingerprint"? just like, the number of the fingerprint?
01:37:08 <fizzie> ATMunn: If you mean the bit that goes "the new fingerprint, then a 1, are pushed onto the stack", that means the number, yes.
01:37:29 <ATMunn> yeah thats what i was referring to
01:37:58 <ATMunn> i was looking at the fungot source
01:37:58 <fungot> ATMunn: http://research.microsoft.com/ users/ simonpj/ papers/ fnord
01:38:11 <ATMunn> i noticed it using the FING fingerprint
01:38:20 <ATMunn> but i don't quite understand what that does
01:38:46 <fizzie> It's used for having multiple fingerprint that have otherwise conflicting assignments conveniently available at the same time.
01:39:02 <fizzie> For example, both STRN and FILE define semantics for instructions G and P.
01:39:21 <fizzie> So fungot uses the FING fingerprint to remap the G and P of one of them to K and B instead.
01:39:22 <fungot> fizzie: i'm glad they broke with the format of token stream? ick!)
01:40:02 <fizzie> That's the 'G'KZ'P'BZ'L'IZ sequence before it loads FILE.
01:41:05 <fizzie> It also flat out drops the A and L instructions from SOCK, so that the instructions from STRN that were "below" them in the per-instruction binding stack become visible.
01:41:20 <fizzie> (With 'AY'LY after loading SOCK.)
01:42:37 <fizzie> The fun fact about fingerprint unloading in Funge-98 is that, per the spec, unloading something like STRN will just blindly pop off one binding from each instruction specified in STRN, even if those bindings weren't currently those *set* by STRN in the first place.
01:46:35 <zzo38> Are creatures that drink blood allowed to drink water too or not?
01:53:42 <fizzie> ATMunn: Now that I read the spec, I guess it might not actually specify the stacks used by "save"/"restore" are per instruction. But that's how everyone interprets it.
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01:59:09 <fizzie> (Wonder if Mycology tests for that.)
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03:13:06 <zzo38> Are creatures that drink blood allowed to drink water too or not?
03:21:15 <fizzie> I believe blood is more than half water, so I'd think so? But not an expert.
03:21:41 <zzo38> That is what I thought too, but I am also not an expert and therefore wouldn't know, that is why I ask.
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03:25:16 <zzo38> Do you know any expert?
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03:51:59 <oerjan> <int-e> (In particular, Expr has a Num instance that isn't quite law-abiding) <-- i don't think Num has laws hth
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04:09:01 <lambdabot> ENVA 070350Z 24011KT 9999 VCSH FEW049 BKN064 M01/M06 Q1014 RMK WIND 670FT 22015KT
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04:11:48 <HackEgo> Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database.
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07:47:06 <shachaf> Cale: generating functions are p. neat
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11:37:45 <fizzie> There's a book about generating functions with a great name: Generatingfunctionology.
11:38:02 <fizzie> (Was a course book on a math course once.)
11:39:27 <fizzie> Even in lowercase on the cover: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Generatingfunctionology.html
11:39:58 <fizzie> Oh, I trimmed that URL too much. :/
11:40:19 <fizzie> https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Generatingfunctionology.html?id=bVFuBwAAQBAJ
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12:11:41 <wob_jonas> Everyone: two important pieces of news. The 25th IOCCC is open from 2017-Dec-29 05:38:51 UTC to 2018-Feb-28 05:29:15 UTC, see http://www.ioccc.org
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12:15:06 <wob_jonas> Sorry, I think that's just one, not two.
12:42:29 <fizzie> @tell shachaf You'll be happy to know that the sources for the logs and wiki-to-IRC stuff can now be found at https://github.com/fis/esolangs
13:08:30 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you'll have to ask someone who knows dnethack. that game has the ability to drink water, and vampire as a playable race.
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13:27:19 <int-e> ... I'm almost surfing at the speed of light! ...
13:29:02 <int-e> let ?M = "{(1, Dec v2 1 2), (2, Dec v3 2 3), (3, Dec v1 4 0), (4, Inc v2 5), (5, Inc v3 3)}" -- so readable!
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13:43:31 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53763&oldid=53757 * Unt * (+8) 2 bugs solved
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13:59:51 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53764&oldid=53763 * Unt * (+1) Another bug
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14:57:42 <lambdabot> fizzie said 2h 15m 12s ago: You'll be happy to know that the sources for the logs and wiki-to-IRC stuff can now be found at https://github.com/fis/esolangs
14:58:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Did I ask for the sources? I don't remember.
15:26:06 <fizzie> shachaf: I thought you did, but I can't find the comment.
15:26:15 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53765&oldid=53764 * Unt * (+0) Some optimization
15:28:41 <int-e> in any case it's fulfilling a promise that has been on the website since its inception (it was there when I first saw it)
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16:03:56 <wob_jonas> ``` echo wisdom/{wor,cow,come,lau}*
16:03:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/word wisdom/word salad detector wisdom/works for me wisdom/cow wisdom/comedogenic wisdom/laughed
16:04:12 <HackEgo> Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering and yes I said yes I will Yes.
16:04:12 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
16:04:14 <HackEgo> Error: unable to read wisdom database. try again later.
16:04:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
16:04:21 <HackEgo> comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic motion.
16:04:23 <HackEgo> They laughed when I said I wanted to be a comedian. They're not laughing now!
16:05:28 <wob_jonas> What's better? Legions of doom or legions of terror?
16:05:52 <wob_jonas> For an evil lord who wants to rule the world that is.
16:05:53 <int-e> "When I told my family how I wanted to be a comedian when I grew up, they all laughed at me. Well I showed them; nobody's laughing now!"
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16:07:52 <wob_jonas> http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html only considers Legions of Terror
16:08:09 <int-e> hmm, still mangled. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/29/arts.artsnews1 has the original
16:10:04 <wob_jonas> that says "When I first said I wanted to be a comedian, everybody laughed. They're not laughing now."
16:10:13 <wob_jonas> are you all planning to submit a program for the IOCCC?
16:10:20 <HackEgo> The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
16:12:51 <boily> wellob_jonas. legions of doom hth
16:19:48 <fizzie> shachaf: https://esolangs.org/logs/2017-12-12.html#lgc I think I took that as an implicit request.
16:20:04 <wob_jonas> And should the population tremble in fear when the evil overlord takes over, or should they instead cower in fear?
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16:28:47 <boily> wob_jonas: tremble htah
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16:33:28 <boily> you want to maximize agony and cognitive dissonance. you want your people to show up, if only because alternatives are worst, by only a slight margin.
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16:52:04 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53766&oldid=35944 * Unt * (+1849) Proven that Numberwang is Turing-complete.
16:57:50 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53767&oldid=53766 * Unt * (-15) Changed categories to reflect Turing-completeness proof
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17:16:20 <wob_jonas> ais523: have you noticed that an IOCCC contest has started near the start of this year?
17:17:02 <ais523> until February, that might be enough time to come up with something
17:17:39 <wob_jonas> ais523: well, the IOCCC rules are constant enough that you can just come up with something at any time and later adjust it to the IOCCC rules
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17:24:37 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if I can fit an Incident interpreter into the IOCCC size limit
17:24:41 <ais523> that's pretty obfuscated in its own right :-)
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17:25:57 <wob_jonas> even if you can, I don't see why that would be a good task an entry program would want to do
17:26:19 <wob_jonas> but that's just my take, the IOCCC judges might think otherwise
17:27:29 <ais523> wob_jonas: because it lets you write a C/Incident polyglot and have it read itself by default, which is basically impossible to figure out if you don't know the language
17:28:26 <wob_jonas> at least if the incident does something more useful than just a nop
17:28:31 <wob_jonas> an incident nop is not that hard to write
17:29:12 <wob_jonas> but incident is a very verbose language, so you can't fit too much useful things in 4 kilobytes of source code
17:31:45 <ais523> maybe it'd work better with some esolang that has a really weird paradigm
17:31:56 <ais523> I wonder if anyone's submitted a prolog interpreter to the IOCCC
17:32:18 <wob_jonas> and you know what the guideline says: "People who are considering to just use some complex mathematical function or state machine to spell out something such as "hello, world!" really really, and we do mean really, do need to be more creative.
17:32:29 <ais523> apparently none have won, at least
17:32:39 <wob_jonas> ais523: hmm, that could be possible
17:33:15 <wob_jonas> obviously you won't have a full library, but you could get a decently usable interpreter
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17:58:20 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53768&oldid=53767 * Unt * (+44) Made explanation less ambiguous.
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18:14:40 <HackEgo> AGDQ is Awesome Games Done Quick, an annual video games speedrunning event for charity every winter, see http://gamesdonequick.com and https://gamesdonequick.com/tracker/events/
18:15:26 <HackEgo> SGDQ is Summer Games Done Quick, an annual video games speedrunning event for charity ever summer, see http://gamesdonequick.com and https://gamesdonequick.com/tracker/events/
18:15:46 <FireFly> that should read 'every', but I forget how slwd works
18:15:53 <HackEgo> `slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
18:16:17 <HackEgo> sgdq//SGDQ is Summer Games Done Quick, an annual video games speedrunning event for charity every summer, see http://gamesdonequick.com and https://gamesdonequick.com/tracker/events/
19:03:15 <\oren\> guten morgen, for a given meaning of "morgen"
19:07:29 <\oren\> I recently got back to adding characters to my font
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20:22:20 <esowiki> [[Dogescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53769&oldid=51830 * Camto * (+134) Fixed broken links and added link to homepage.
20:23:11 <esowiki> [[Dogescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53770&oldid=53769 * Camto * (-86) Removed dead link.
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21:05:18 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53771&oldid=53768 * Taneb * (+110) Clarification
21:25:37 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53772&oldid=53771 * Unt * (-110) Undo revision 53771 by [[Special:Contributions/Taneb|Taneb]] ([[User talk:Taneb|talk]])
21:25:49 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53773&oldid=53772 * Unt * (+110) Undo revision 53772 by [[Special:Contributions/Unt|Unt]] ([[User talk:Unt|talk]])
21:26:24 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53774&oldid=53773 * Unt * (-44) Undo revision 53768 by [[Special:Contributions/Unt|Unt]] ([[User talk:Unt|talk]])
21:26:37 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53775&oldid=53774 * Unt * (+15) Undo revision 53767 by [[Special:Contributions/Unt|Unt]] ([[User talk:Unt|talk]])
21:26:46 <esowiki> [[Numberwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53776&oldid=53775 * Unt * (-1849) Undo revision 53766 by [[Special:Contributions/Unt|Unt]] ([[User talk:Unt|talk]])
21:31:44 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53777&oldid=53765 * Unt * (+17) This should conform to the standard.
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22:25:24 <lambdabot> CYUL 072219Z 15010KT 3SM -SN FEW008 OVC020 M14/M18 A3019 RMK SF1SC8 SF TR PRESFR SLP228
22:30:20 <lambdabot> LOWI 072220Z AUTO 26004KT 210V300 9999 FEW170 SCT180 BKN190 02/01 Q1021
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22:31:21 <int-e> ^8ball Is this goal provable?
22:31:52 <int-e> ^8ball Will I figure out how?
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22:52:56 <int-e> fungot: well turns out it wasn't provable
22:52:57 <fungot> int-e: first step into a greater world. but if you use a macro??? can you provide any examples of code that can help
22:53:28 <int-e> fungot: I'm afraid you're no help at all
22:53:29 <fungot> int-e: looks more " logical" to me...
23:09:17 <boily> fungot is logical. He Knows All.
23:09:18 <fungot> boily: god is known as " but sometimes, i just almost-never use it.
23:17:34 <int-e> Okay, maybe it's provable now but it will have to wait for another day.
23:18:54 <int-e> (I'm trying to prove something primitive. More precisely, I'm trying to show that Minsky machines are powerful enough to do primitive recursion, on the way to proving that they are TC.)
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23:25:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: three-counter, or in general with the number of counters chosen by the translation?
23:27:21 <wob_jonas> int-e: I think the proof for turing-completeness simulates a machine with multiple stacks, with elements from a finite alphabet stored of each, represented by a bignum in some radix.
23:27:53 <wob_jonas> But I'm not sure what you mean when you want just primitive recursion first.
23:30:22 <int-e> Right, I shouldn't be so sloppy. I really want some undecidability stuff and there's an existing Isabelle formalization of Rice' theorem for recursive functions.
23:30:33 <int-e> So that's my target, not Turing machines.
23:30:56 <int-e> But anyway, that's my Minsky machine definition: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/xsuC8D36
23:31:49 <int-e> (in addition to deterministic, they are also assumed to be finite)
23:32:36 <int-e> But later... good night.
23:41:59 <zzo38> Are any other file formats and/or special effects I should add into Farbfeld Utilities?
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23:53:32 <boily> hej hej hemskt mickerjan hej.
23:54:18 <wob_jonas> probably some sort of norwegian porthello for oerjan
23:57:07 <boily> hezzo38. https://youtu.be/-b4-h9-s2g8
23:57:35 <boily> wellob_jonas. it's norwegian, and his fault for having shown me that damned earworm many years ago.
23:58:21 <wob_jonas> I mean, it's not hard to guess that it's norwegian from "hej hej"
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00:00:33 <zzo38> See if you like this http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+9 and also what complaint you have of it please.
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00:05:59 <oerjan> wob_jonas: boily: i think you mean swedish hth
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00:08:42 <wob_jonas> oerjan: swedish or norwegian are hard to distinguish for me, especially from such a small sample.
00:09:58 <oerjan> it's actually fairly easy: norwegian generally writes "ei" instead of "ej".
00:09:59 <wob_jonas> oerjan: if you said "vatn" or "vann" or "senter" I might know it's norwegian, otherwise not much chance
00:10:57 <oerjan> "mycket" is also a clue, norwegian doesn't use "ck" much
00:11:11 <wob_jonas> so you're saying norwegian doesn't use "hei" as the spelling? intersting
00:11:19 <wob_jonas> obviously that's a word I hear more than see written
00:12:06 <oerjan> also "hemskt" is not norwegian either, but that's probably harder to discern just from general spelling.
00:12:46 <oerjan> well, norwegian words in -sk don't take the final -t in neuter, so there _is_ a general rule there
00:13:19 <oerjan> although "hemsk" isn't very norwegian either
00:13:39 <wob_jonas> not that it's too important for me to learn to distinguish swedish from norwegian. distinguishing languages is useful to know who to ask to translate something I don't understand, but in the case of swedish vs norwegian it doesn't matter that much
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00:14:31 <wob_jonas> as opposed to, say, distinguishing persian from arabic
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00:19:29 <zzo38> (It is written in English, not in Swedish. You can translate it if you wish, but probably there is not much point.)
00:21:39 <zzo38> The file I linked above
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00:22:15 <oerjan> when i watched boily's link, youtube suggested this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1lvMJ-l0_A
00:23:21 <boily> no. no no no NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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00:27:36 <oerjan> (also, it's the books' fault)
00:28:08 <zzo38> wob_jonas: O. Well, I think maybe you should read that file, in order to make a comment/complaint/question/whatever about it please.
00:34:18 <oerjan> boily: i completely misunderstood the title of that
00:34:32 <oerjan> (norwegian false friend)
00:34:46 <oerjan> it actually means "it's the gays' fault"
00:35:02 <boily> there are false friends between swedish and norwegian?
00:35:05 <oerjan> now it makes much more sense
00:37:13 <wob_jonas> zzo38: this seems to be a different game than the long one you've written so much about
00:38:25 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, it is a different one.
00:38:41 <zzo38> This one is GURPS; the other one is Dungeons&Dragons
00:39:13 <oerjan> sv:pula med means something like "dabble with", while no:pule med means "fuck"
00:40:02 <wob_jonas> oerjan: meh, lots of words become meaning "fuck" in languages, because of euphemisms
00:40:20 <zzo38> Now I play GURPS; I prefer it over Dungeons&Dragons
00:41:54 <oerjan> hm apparently it can mean "fuck" in swedish too
00:42:32 <oerjan> no:koselig = cozy, sv:kuslig = eerie
00:48:09 <boily> fr_FR:gosses = children, fr_CA:gosses = testicles...
00:49:13 <wob_jonas> boily: hehe. same principle though. that's one of those things that gather a lot of synonyms that start out as euphemisms
00:50:58 <wob_jonas> boily: "pants" in English is one of the more confusing false friends by the way
00:51:50 <wob_jonas> luckily English has too much words, so usually for any false friend you can use a synonym instead
00:52:21 <wob_jonas> espeically so for a false friend, becuase there's almost certainly a synonym for what it doesn't mean, and that's usually less ambiguous
00:55:09 -!- oerjan has set topic: The 25th IOCCC is open until 2018-Feb-28 05:29:15 UTC | Welcome to the international millennium for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
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00:58:10 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: error: parse error on input ‘?’
00:58:46 <oerjan> hm strange place to err out
00:59:37 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: error: parse error on input ‘?’
01:00:55 <oerjan> > let ?m="test" in ? m
01:00:59 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:18: error: parse error on input ‘?’
01:04:01 <oerjan> this is pretty on topic for this channel https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/152406/
01:06:50 <oerjan> (halting problem thwarter in brainfuck)
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01:18:25 <esowiki> [[Dogescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53778&oldid=53770 * Oerjan * (+111) Undo and use wayback
02:04:01 <boily> fungot: are you one, or are you legion?
02:04:01 <fungot> boily: well i got summer holidays now so :)
02:18:28 <oerjan> fungot: um i think you're hemispherically confused
02:18:28 <fungot> oerjan: i like it. i was thinking about implementing a turing-complete language to have? message-passing/ multimethods? with or without
02:18:45 <fungot> oerjan: but i'm not set upon them." " take the plunge, to enter with a keyboard and go play with my implementation, but: are you interesting?
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13:53:06 <b_jonas> In the traditional name "vmlinuz" of linux kernel images, what did the "vm" originally stand for?
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14:11:09 <fizzie> b_jonas: I was Googling that not long ago, actually. Wikipedia claims it's the usual, "virtual memory".
14:11:24 <fizzie> "Traditionally, UNIX platforms called the kernel image /unix. With the development of virtual memory, kernels that supported this feature were given the vm- prefix to differentiate them. The name vmlinux is a mutation of vmunix, while in vmlinuz the letter z at the end denotes that it is compressed (for example gzipped)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vmlinux#Etymology
14:14:59 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, the "z" part makes sense
14:15:05 <b_jonas> fizzie: but the "virtual memory" doesn't
14:15:25 <b_jonas> so you're saying that older linuxes didn't support virtual memory?
14:15:31 <b_jonas> that sounds rather strange
14:15:52 <b_jonas> unix has had virtual memory from the very start
14:16:10 <b_jonas> and linux started out on 386, so it would be able to use paging
14:20:54 <Deewiant> From 1993: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.folklore.computers/QKFqK4AbjUk
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14:24:29 <fizzie> b_jonas: The Wikipedia text is not claiming older Linux versions didn't support virtual memory, it's claiming older Unix systems didn't (and thus had a "unix"/"vmunix" distinction), and Linux just derived "vmlinux" from "vmunix".
14:25:10 <fizzie> s/older Unix systems/*some* &/ I guess.
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15:23:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah. even then it's strange.
15:24:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: I mean, unix started out as a time-sharing system that swapped out the entire address space of the process to disk each time it switched to another process
15:25:06 <b_jonas> I know there's such things as minix, but still.
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15:50:26 <int-e> > unwords . transpose . words $ "twm hoi rrx ede esd"
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18:56:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Simplemaker * New user account
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19:37:41 <int-e> b_jonas: so Tom's "anagraph problem" is really the standard word problem for finitely presented monoids... and after 5 minutes I'm at the point where I resent the fact that it's hard to skim videos.
19:39:24 <int-e> err, the kerning problem is that; the anagraph problem is a bidirectional variant of petri nets
19:41:25 <int-e> (The word problem in a finitely presented commutative monoid, but that doesn't help with decidability; the Petri net angle does.)
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20:16:03 <int-e> And simplifying further, there's a connection to Gröbner bases and Buchberger's algorithm. Yay.
20:17:32 <int-e> b_jonas: So I agree that the appeal to linear logic is overkill. But if you have that hammer...
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20:27:32 <wob_jonas> int-e: the anagraph problem is for *commutative* monoids. the kerning problem is for monoids.
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20:27:53 <int-e> wob_jonas: I corrected myself already
20:29:00 <int-e> Petri net states can be thought of as multisets of locations; each transition takes a multiset to another one (so it's a directed equation).
20:29:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: for the non-commutative case, the kerning problem, I was wondering if you could reduce the word problem on finitely presented groups to it to prove it's not algorithmically solvable. that way you'd get the exact variant, not the infix variant tom7 baited to.
20:29:21 <wob_jonas> I think it's possible, but I'm not sure.
20:29:21 <int-e> And reachability for Petri nets is decidable.
20:30:32 <wob_jonas> int-e: hammer is one thing, but he starts the video by saying he's trying to present this stuff to people without much background, so it's really a cop-out.
20:31:30 <int-e> you need extra equations for dealing with all the inverses and the unit, e.g. 1a = a = a1, 1 = a(a^-1) = (a^-1)a, where a^-1 is a new symbol for each letter a.
20:31:42 <int-e> but then you can use Matiseyevitchs'
20:32:01 <int-e> ... I wanted to google, not press return
20:33:44 <int-e> (because I know that I keep mixing up people)
20:35:33 <wob_jonas> int-e: the ones for the inverses are easy. you don't need anything special for the units. it's the free conjugation that you need for a group that needs more tricky rules thouhg.
20:36:02 <int-e> Matiyasevich is the name, but apparently he's just the one who used the fewest relations so far (namely, 3) for a semigroup with undecidable word problem. http://www.wolframscience.com/nks/notes-12-8--word-problems/
20:37:06 <wob_jonas> As in, the word has to be treated as if it was cyclic, you have to be able to move a letter from front to back.
20:37:36 * int-e isn't sure whether Tom allows empty strings (so talking of monoids isn't accurate, they're just semigroups)
20:38:16 <int-e> I didn't look at the first video. The linear logic construction will have trouble with empty strings.
20:38:46 <wob_jonas> Besides, he's a mathematician (just not a good maths educator), of course he allows empty strings.
20:38:50 <int-e> a --o [what goes here?]
20:39:30 <int-e> that's not a thing in linear logic? or is it just something that he mentioned and that I missed?
20:39:47 * int-e admittedly wasn't very attentive.
20:40:05 <wob_jonas> int-e: ah, you mean linear logic, and the --o is a lollipop? I thought it was an abbreviated long option, gnu style
20:40:24 <int-e> yes, it was meant to be a lollipop
20:41:14 <int-e> `learn Communication is hard if it involves more than one person.
20:41:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'communication': Communication is hard if it involves more than one person.
20:44:14 * int-e notes that Matiyasevich's example *is* a semigroup already, so inverses won't cause problems at all.
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22:12:58 <wob_jonas> Wow! Finally a webpage where the language links don't just take you to the top level page in a different language, but to the translation of the same page you are viewing. What a nice relief after all the stupid webpages that don't do that. http://www.nationalparksofsweden.se
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23:35:53 <int-e> Yay, Minsky machines *can* do primitive recursion.
23:36:19 <\oren\> the population of earth in 1950 was only about 2.5 billion!?!?!?!?
23:36:46 <boily> int-ello. isn't that the same as a for loop?
23:37:11 <boily> ヘ＼＼オレン＼. superexponential growth!
23:38:10 <int-e> boily: well, yes, but the details are cumbersome. http://downthetypehole.de/paste/So5kdG0C
23:40:36 <int-e> (In total I have 600 lines of Isabelle theory now...)
23:41:07 <int-e> (Building on top of an existing formalization of primitive recursive (and recursive) functions.)
23:44:45 <int-e> boily: Would you believe that I'm doing this mostly for fun right now?
23:46:17 <int-e> boily: at least the underlying definition isn't so bad: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/xsuC8D36
23:47:56 <int-e> (That's Minsky machine + semantics, i.e., the corresponding state transitions. They can be non-deterministic, but I only talk about deterministic ones.)
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00:26:14 <oerjan> @tell boily currently eating my last nutella ball hth
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01:27:45 <oerjan> @tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> As in, the word has to be treated as if it was cyclic, you have to be able to move a letter from front to back. <-- if you mean what i think, that follows from the inverses: abc = 1 => ab = abc c^-1 = c^-1 => cab = c c^-1 = 1
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01:51:56 <JayCampbell> https://esolangs.org/wiki/What_the_fuck_is_the_Internet%3F
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09:12:06 <zzo38> Today I found "Moser-de Bruijn sequence" in Wikipedia.
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11:00:21 <wob_jonas> oerjan: in groups, yes. but the kerning problem, as defined by tom7, doesn't know that (it's on monoids), so you have to add extra rules
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12:12:22 <Taneb> `learn friend is a portmaneau of fritter and rend
12:12:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'friend': friend is a portmaneau of fritter and rend
12:13:51 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11h 47m 37s ago: currently eating my last nutella ball hth
12:14:22 <boily> @ask oerjan hellørjan. are you getting more?
12:15:52 <Taneb> Not quite sure how that portmanthello is working
12:22:48 <boily> it is porthelly, so it works ^^
12:23:41 <Taneb> porthellish more like
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12:45:34 <esowiki> [[EncryptFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53779&oldid=42353 * Antoxyde * (+20)
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17:57:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Fizzie * moved [[User:GermanyBoy]] to [[User:Fergusq]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "[[User:GermanyBoy|GermanyBoy]]" to "[[User:Fergusq|Fergusq]]"
17:57:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/renameuser]] renameuser * Fizzie * Fizzie renamed user [[User:GermanyBoy]] (202 edits) to [[User:Fergusq]]: User request: switching to more widely used name.
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18:42:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Fergusq * moved [[Onecode (GermanyBoy)]] to [[Onecode (Fergusq)]]
18:43:17 <esowiki> [[Onecode (Fergusq)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53784&oldid=53782 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
18:43:50 <esowiki> [[Forobj]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53785&oldid=40368 * Fergusq * (-6) rename
18:44:25 <esowiki> [[PHL 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53786&oldid=44578 * Fergusq * (-6) rename
18:44:55 <esowiki> [[Goldfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53787&oldid=50499 * Fergusq * (-9) rename
18:45:43 <esowiki> [[Twocode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53788&oldid=42660 * Fergusq * (-15) rename
18:46:02 <esowiki> [[Onecode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53789&oldid=39766 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
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18:46:27 <esowiki> [[Lii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53790&oldid=40098 * Fergusq * (-6) rename
18:47:25 <esowiki> [[SYCPOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53791&oldid=40421 * Fergusq * (-18) rename
18:47:47 <esowiki> [[Goldfish/Implementation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53792&oldid=40144 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
18:48:05 <esowiki> [[Twocode/Doublecode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53793&oldid=40157 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
18:48:25 <esowiki> [[Fortob]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53794&oldid=42664 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
18:48:41 <esowiki> [[Iexp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53795&oldid=41917 * Fergusq * (-3) rename
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18:52:23 <quintopia> so...esolangs now has Onecode, Twocode, Redcode, but /no/ Bluecode. Time for a mashup lang
18:59:46 <HackEgo> olist 1109: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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19:46:03 <fungot> int-e: compared to lesbians on tv." hmm? nothing happens... but... dunno... i should be able to
19:46:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:47:49 <int-e> > text . reverse $ "tognuf"
19:48:16 <fungot> int-e: the nearest " local university library? i've been using chicken ( where cps is faster than o(n) access?)
19:48:46 <int-e> fungot: do you know all the chatty bots?
19:48:47 <fungot> int-e: good point. i'll fix it and get back to work. finally 1 channels in the phone, so we don't even need
19:53:41 <int-e> . o O ( kind of tempted to make a funsssslist for funny ssss pages... :P )
19:53:44 <HackEgo> SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic.
19:53:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bot: not found
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20:58:27 <fizzie> int-e: It's a manually maintained list.
20:58:30 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot)!
20:58:38 <fizzie> Some of those are very obsolete.
21:00:04 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot|j-bot|esowiki)!
21:01:06 <int-e> Oh, Fungot has a wiki page, good catch.
21:02:33 <fizzie> I'm thinking of also adding `zemhill_*`.
21:02:50 <fizzie> A little bit academic though.
21:03:06 <fizzie> Except if people start making lots of fungot tribute programs.
21:03:06 <fungot> fizzie: tea is best." " so long, thanks for the help, riastradh, but i've never tried to copy the work.
21:04:36 <int-e> fungot: can you make a hot beverage that tastes almost, but not completely, entirely unlike tea?
21:04:36 <fungot> int-e: that is) will be a web app, i guess).
21:07:54 <fizzie> I used to have a machine with the hostname 'nutrimatic'.
21:08:14 <fizzie> No recollection what its function was. I tried to make them somehow meaningful.
21:08:47 <fizzie> Maybe it was a MythTV DVB box? In the "serving entertainment" sense.
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22:11:50 <fungot> wob_jonas: when i know the
22:11:50 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 0 [ fungot
22:12:21 <fungot> wob_jonas: what order should i do to get the real thing you want in your context. this is used, evoli. ( for those of you who have used it to port fnord to bigloo than d-r-t* :)
22:15:22 <wob_jonas> fizzie, int-e: yeah, I used to have such a manually maintained list in jevalbot, although now it's very obsolate too
22:16:41 <wob_jonas> in theory, bots could agree on a protocol to talk this out among themselves, like a channel where potential bots may join, and then if a bot sees that someone is joined on that channel, it asks them if they should be ignored by some specific message
22:16:56 <wob_jonas> but it would be hard to make most bot authors agree
22:17:11 <wob_jonas> which is why we should just use NOTICE, which was designed for this in first place
22:18:58 <fizzie> But it looks so bad. :/
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22:25:54 <int-e> Which was the client that first produced popups for NOTICE? Does that predate mIRC?
22:26:43 <wob_jonas> int-e: popups? dunno, I hadn't heard of that
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22:59:09 <wob_jonas> well, technically it's not bcd. it's binary-coded babylonian.
22:59:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53796&oldid=35256 * Mr Meems * (+437) /* New Category of Languages */ new section
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23:32:39 <\oren\> Linus Torvalds' dad is running for president of finland?!?!
23:34:12 <fizzie> Yes, but he's not going to win.
23:35:05 <fizzie> As a candidate of the party for the Swedish-speaking Finns.
23:36:51 <fizzie> He's been a MEP for several years, so it's not like he's new to politics.
23:42:22 <shachaf> Should I vote in this election?
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23:47:44 <HackEgo> linus torvalds? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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23:53:27 <fizzie> shachaf: It's your civic duty, isn't it?
23:54:00 <fizzie> It's not going to make any difference, but at least it feels like serious business.
23:56:41 <oerjan> `le/rn civic duty//Civic duty is your duty to keep your Honda in tip top shape.
23:56:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'civic duty': Civic duty is your duty to keep your Honda in tip top shape.
23:57:56 <oerjan> `slwd civic duty//s,p t,p-t,
23:57:58 <HackEgo> civic duty//Civic duty is your duty to keep your Honda in tip-top shape.
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00:00:39 <lambdabot> boily asked 11h 46m 17s ago: hellørjan. are you getting more?
00:01:06 <oerjan> boily: no, but i've bought an extra box of coffee-flavored chocolate beans
00:03:18 <oerjan> aka https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e15/14712378_363636503979945_8154970686859771904_n.jpg
00:04:14 <oerjan> (although the packaging was different this time, they're having this thing where they're recycling old versions for their anniversary)
00:04:47 <int-e> boily: yay I think I have figured out how to abstract from that longish proof I showed you yesterday :)
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00:05:37 <int-e> boily: (but it means that I have to redo large parts of the formalization)
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00:06:33 <oerjan> ah https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokkab%C3%B8nner has a picture of several of them at the bottom, mine is fourth from right
00:07:44 <boily> int-ello! that scary proof?
00:08:16 <int-e> boily: that scary proof: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/So5kdG0C
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00:12:08 <int-e> boily: you may recall that you said "isn't that just a loop" and now I know how to abstract from that concept.
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00:29:05 <boily> int-e: that's what I said. is the abstraction effective?
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00:59:46 <oerjan> @tell wob_jonas I'm saying that the only rules you need are a^-1 a = a a^-1 = 1, from which abc = 1 <=> bca = 1 follows for monoids.
01:02:53 <oerjan> @tell wob_jonas Unless, I guess, the formalism doesn't support reasoning fully with monoid equations.
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01:04:44 <HackEgo> 11311:2018-01-09 <Tanëb> learn friend is a portmaneau of fritter and rend \ 5596:2015-06-16 <shachäf> rm wisdom/friend \ 3622:2013-09-03 <oerjän> mv wisdom/friend{s,}
01:05:00 <oerjan> . o O ( reminder to self: never ask Taneb to friend me )
01:05:21 <oerjan> `slwd friend//s,mane,mante,
01:05:23 <HackEgo> friend//friend is a portmanteau of fritter and rend
01:06:11 <HackEgo> 3622:2013-09-03 <oerjän> mv wisdom/friend{s,} \ 5596:2015-06-16 <shachäf> rm wisdom/friend \ 11311:2018-01-09 <Tanëb> learn friend is a portmaneau of fritter and rend \ 11314:2018-01-10 <oerjän> slwd friend//s,mane,mante,
01:06:40 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 0 wisdom/friends
01:06:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/friends: no such file in rev e037173e0012
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01:06:59 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 3622 wisdom/friend
01:07:00 <HackEgo> Friends make graphs together / La la la la
01:07:49 <oerjan> . o O ( There's probably a reference I'm not getting )
01:08:17 <shachaf> But it's scow so whatever.
01:08:58 <HackEgo> 1/3:absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break maths. \ dwfo//DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra, <http://thedwfo.org>. \ tanebventions: food//Culinary tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, weet
01:09:21 <HackEgo> 2/3:oflakes, mushrooms, nutella, and cognac. \ code//[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... \
01:09:28 <oerjan> i cannot even google the lyrics, it seems
01:09:28 <HackEgo> 3/3:metasepia//metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
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01:35:27 <esowiki> [[Talk:List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53797&oldid=53796 * Oerjan * (+295) unsigned + other example
01:39:39 <oerjan> boily: you'll be happy to know that i got an earworm from the link i gave you yesterday hth
01:40:02 <HackEgo> extreme irony//Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
01:40:26 <oerjan> i hope the earworm doesn't get _that_ bad.
01:46:15 <boily> mwah ah ah. MWAH AH AH!
01:47:35 <boily> you can cleanse the worm by using that: https://youtu.be/I0JVRcJLea8 hth
01:56:48 <boily> helloochaf! you're in tokyo!?!?!??!!
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01:57:29 <boily> you should visit ueno.
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01:59:50 <boily> a buncha other things I forgot...
02:03:15 <oerjan> boily: i'm not sure that cleansed anything, but we'll see. (of course now youtube is going to suggest japanese music to me...)
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02:19:02 <boily> oerjan: slow acting ecoresponsible cleansing. don't worry, everything will be fine. and disco.
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02:22:57 <oerjan> . o O ( disco might work better )
02:23:02 <HackEgo> 549) <oerjan> i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist.
02:23:49 <oerjan> if this were a wisdom instead of a quote, i might recently be adding theodorakis.
02:25:58 <shachaf> `le/rn oerjan's musical taste/disappointingly, oerjan's musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion.
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03:06:07 <int-e> yay, much better: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/KXtOefuy instead of http://downthetypehole.de/paste/So5kdG0C
03:07:04 <int-e> 1 file changed, 200 insertions(+), 404 deletions(-)
03:08:14 <int-e> (now 396 total, so that's a significant decrease)
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03:55:41 <ais523> wow, someone added Ursala to the polygloy
03:56:34 <ais523> I think Ursala is one of my favourite languages at the practical/esolang boundary
03:56:41 <ais523> although it seems that the author has by now given up and admitted it's an esolang
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05:43:36 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjQ4xxYQyIo
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07:20:24 <\oren\> `unidecode ̶̤̦̯͖͚͓̮͓̣̤̰͇́̕ ̴͜͏͈̭̦͙̦̯̟̗̜̼̠̦͘ ̶̶̡̢̲̱̜̹̰̻̘̪̳̫͕̙̕ ̡҉͎̦̙̰̻͉̜̝̺͚̻͇̞̺̦͓́ ̨̘̤̜̞͍̩̠̱̦̫͔̹̩͍͇̜͈́̕͞ͅͅ ̴̴̧̣͍̘̰̗̮̜̰̲̣̙̲̝͚̩̦̭̀͡ ̧̗͚̱͓̥̖͍͕̀ ̫̪͇̗̲̭̤͖̫̣͇͔͘ ͕͚͎̦͓̺̤̳̙̝͟ͅ ̸͉̫̘̩͙͖̼̣̞̞̰̼̞͕̀ ̶̗͓͎͓̦̙̭̳̻̫̥̯̱͚̦͔͍͙͟ ̶͜҉͏̞̺̙̥̦̪͇̯̳͍̬̱̰̘̺̠̀ ̀͞
07:20:34 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
07:20:51 <\oren\> `unicode ̶̤̦̯͖͚͓̮͓̣̤̰͇́̕ ̴͜͏͈̭̦͙̦̯̟̗̜̼̠̦͘ ̶̶̡̢̲̱̜̹̰̻̘̪̳̫͕̙̕ ̡҉͎̦̙̰̻͉̜̝̺͚̻͇̞̺̦͓́ ̨̘̤̜̞͍̩̠̱̦̫͔̹̩͍͇̜͈́̕͞ͅͅ ̴̴̧̣͍̘̰̗̮̜̰̲̣̙̲̝͚̩̦̭̀͡ ̧̗͚̱͓̥̖͍͕̀ ̫̪͇̗̲̭̤͖̫̣͇͔͘ ͕͚͎̦͓̺̤̳̙̝͟ͅ ̸͉̫̘̩͙͖̼̣̞̞̰̼̞͕̀ ̶̗͓͎͓̦̙̭̳̻̫̥̯̱͚̦͔͍͙͟ ̶͜҉͏̞̺̙̥̦̪͇̯̳͍̬̱̰̘̺̠̀ ̀̀͞
07:20:55 <HackEgo> Sequence ' \xcc\xb6\xcc\x95\xcd\x81\xcc\xa4\xcc\xa6\xcc\xaf\xcd\x96\xcd\x9a\xcd\x93\xcc\xae\xcd\x93\xcc\xa3\xcc\xa4\xcc\xb0\xcd\x87 \xcd\x9c\xcc\xb4\xcd\x8f\xcd\x98\xcd\x88\xcc\xad\xcc\xa6\xcd\x99\xcc\xa6\xcc\xaf\xcc\x9f\xcc\x97\xcc\x9c\xcc\xbc\xcc\xa0\xcc\xa6 \xcc\xa1\xcc\xb6\xcc\xa2\xcc\xb6\xcc\x95\xcc\xb2\xcc\xb1\xcc\x9c\xcc\xb9\xcc\xb0\xcc\xbb\
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15:45:16 <fizzie> Not exactly on-topic but at least there's maybe a nonzero component in the right direction...
15:45:19 <fizzie> What do people use for doing declarative 2D diagrams? I can think of straight-up SVG or PS (little too low-level), TikZ (nice in a (La)TeX doc, maybe less convenient standalone), the pic language (much retro), OpenSCAD (too 3D), Metapost and Asymptote (don't know enough to comment on). What else is there, and what's good?
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18:41:25 <int-e> fungot: how many npm packages do you depend one?
18:41:25 <fungot> int-e:... what's the point?) hardware... some day i'd like to have a point
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19:40:51 <\oren\> falcon heavy static firing tomorrow
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20:31:37 <\oren\> (to the extent that a tesla roadster is a "spacecraft")
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20:42:29 <Slereah> you could throw it in space
20:42:38 <Slereah> it would not be a very airtight spacecraft
20:44:40 <\oren\> I still can't believe the madman is actually gonna do it. but i mean there are photos of it being loaded. so there is actually a car on top of a rocket, on the Apollo launch pad, right now.
20:45:09 <\oren\> static fire tomorrow...
20:45:56 <\oren\> launch at the end of the month. one of the first privately-funded interplanetary spacecraft is just a stock, road-legal car.
20:46:35 <\oren\> Slereah: apparently, if Nasa is letting them use their launch pad
21:08:10 <ais523> I hope they at least have some sort of sensors on it
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21:38:51 <FireFly> fizzie: I like TikZ when I want something visually pleasing, or if not I'm more likely to just do unicode art with box-drawing characters in vim honestly
21:38:57 <FireFly> which is probably a bit of a non-answer
21:39:14 <FireFly> (and I guess not really declarative)
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21:40:03 <fizzie> I wonder if there's a convenient way of doing standalone TikZ.
21:40:31 <fizzie> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/32127/standalone-tikz-pictures suggests there isn't too much boilerplate.
21:40:47 <fizzie> Started fiddling with pic anyway though, might just go ahead with that.
21:41:50 <FireFly> mmm.. pic would be interesting to toy with a bit
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22:06:09 <fizzie> Having some trouble with figuring out how to define a macro that styles an arbitrary line. `define foo { line $1; }` worked fine for simple `foo(from X to Y);` stuff, but not for more complicated things, I think it's taking the , to be argument separator.
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22:24:43 <fizzie> ...and seems that pic2plot doesn't do colors (except for the global pen color). This would've been nice to know beforehand.
22:28:34 <fizzie> Maybe I should've gone with Asymptote instead.
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22:57:34 <boily> the do does well. do you also do?
23:00:30 <boily> maybe 1900, but I'll try.
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23:21:27 <boily> meanwhile, subtly broke a buncha packages.
23:21:40 <boily> remove ubuntu-desktop and just about everythin? eh, why not! what could go wrong...
23:23:16 <quintopia> i stayed up all night watching my favorite streamer play ddlc
23:23:28 <boily> I tried to forcefully ram a newer version of okular by “dpkg -i”ing my way through dependencies.
23:23:36 <quintopia> a bot joined the stream pretending to be monika
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23:25:27 <quintopia> and linked this twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/sayori_chr_
23:29:06 <boily> meanwhile, repaired the fungot out of my system. all systems go!
23:29:06 <fungot> boily: or maybe it is best for beginners i think
23:29:35 <boily> fungot: well, beginners may want up to date apps sometimes. ubuntu and their antediluvian policies...
23:29:36 <fungot> boily: the closest i could get my dad to ask him what his programming background is.
23:29:52 <quintopia> thats working together as a space team!
23:30:06 <boily> fungot: I don't think dad ever programmed. now if you ask mom...
23:30:12 <boily> fungot: no, more like APL.
23:30:12 <fungot> boily: _that_ would be ugly. :) i'm trying to strike a balance between the gates
23:30:23 <boily> fungot: APL is ugly indeed.
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23:45:27 <fizzie> FireFly: Just to provide some closure here, decided to fall back to TikZ, at least I know a little about how to use it.
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00:55:31 <boily> I hate Adobe with the force of a thousand mammoths.
00:55:45 <boily> bonsœirjan. are you on a caffeine high?
01:23:14 <oerjan> i _do_ seem to have a craving for eating more chocolate beans.
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02:01:59 <boily> dist upgrade done.
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02:24:42 <boilyphone> I may have slightly broke my system...
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03:13:14 <HackEgo> 8/8/8/8/8/8/8/8 is an empty chess board in FEN.
03:13:51 <oerjan> hm did i reset dns after the last time i had to use 8.8.8.8
03:13:59 <boilyphone> Manual editing of resolv conf works for now.
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03:15:01 <boily> time to sleep now. will fix that eventually.
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03:15:47 <oerjan> argh windows has removed it from the menu i use to get to it from
03:16:23 <oerjan> oh there was a link inside the thing it shows instead
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13:29:12 <b_jonas> Pre-decimalizatoin measures really suck
13:30:48 <b_jonas> A great example is in Verne's "Voyage au centre de la terre", when Axel is lost and is talking to his uncle Lidenbrock through magical echos (that magic is later reused in Mathias Sandorf),
13:32:28 <b_jonas> they measure the ping time, find that it's 40 second, and from that they conclude that since the speed of sound is 1020 feet per second, they must be one and a half and an eighth leagues apart.
13:33:16 <b_jonas> I'm so glad I don't have to deal with any of that nonsense, we have decimal units for everything and logarithms.
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13:42:25 <fizzie> b_jonas: Decimal units for larger-than-second intervals of time as well?
13:55:25 <b_jonas> fizzie: we use those when we want to synchronize something to the cycle of days or weeks or months or years, eg. I go to work every weekday morning, get my wages every month, go skiing usually once a year, etc.
13:55:53 <b_jonas> But when that is not necessary, then I can just use seconds for any measurement.
13:56:07 <b_jonas> And yes, this isn't perfect.
13:57:09 <b_jonas> I'm still reading science stuff that talks about geology and biology stuff that happened a million years ago, and sometimes
13:58:04 <b_jonas> even things about whether the universe is 12 billion years old or twice as much, despite that the solar system and earth's rotation didn't even exist back then.
13:58:09 <b_jonas> We should use seconds for that.
13:58:33 <b_jonas> Still, this is much better than what people had many years ago.
13:58:48 <fizzie> The fact that km/h and m/s are both widely used and have a non-power-of-10 conversion factor is annoying.
13:59:23 <b_jonas> fizzie: and I'm charged for electricity in kilowatthours
14:00:06 <b_jonas> and my blood pressure is measured in millimeters of mercury
14:00:18 <fizzie> I can only really grok "travel speed" in km/h and "wind speed" in m/s (as in, what's fast and what's not), since those are the customary units for them in Finland.
14:00:40 <b_jonas> and food stuff in kilocalories, which is like 4.2 kilojoules or something
14:00:47 <fizzie> (Of course here wind speeds are either in knots or miles/hour...)
14:01:26 <fizzie> (More often the latter.)
14:03:16 <b_jonas> Wind speed is given for laypeople in km/h here when they give a number: http://www.met.hu/idojaras/elorejelzes/magyarorszagi_telepulesek/index.php
14:03:35 <b_jonas> but more often they use the non-numeric categories for the wind speed instead
14:05:35 <b_jonas> let me try to find a list of those
14:06:01 <b_jonas> oh, and air pressure is in hectopascal
14:09:41 <b_jonas> https://www.met.hu/ismertetok/viharjelzesi_fokozatok.pdf lists them. it's called Beaufort-scale
14:10:10 <b_jonas> https://www.met.hu/ismertetok/Beaufort-skala.pdf too
14:10:24 <b_jonas> the latter is more relevant
14:10:53 <b_jonas> gives the terms and the corresponding wind speeds in three different units of measurement
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14:52:56 <HackEgo> Salvage \ G \ Sorcery \ Put target card from your graveyard on top of your library. \ P2-C \ \ Salvage Drone \ U \ Creature -- Eldrazi Drone \ 1/1 \ Devoid (This card has no color.) \ Ingest (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player exiles the top card of his or her library.) \ When Salvage Drone dies, you may draw a car
14:54:09 <HackEgo> Remedy \ 1W \ Instant \ Prevent the next 5 damage that would be dealt this turn to any number of target creatures and/or players, divided as you choose. \ VI-C, 6E-C
14:56:34 <b_jonas> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/klorp -- this one is totally real. there are advertisments here about a mineral and trace element supplement pill with two different variants, one for men and one for women.
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18:23:16 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Intrepion * New user account
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18:57:06 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53798&oldid=53743 * Intrepion * (+224)
18:57:19 <esowiki> [[BranFlakes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53799 * Intrepion * (+23) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck]]
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18:57:51 <esowiki> [[Branflakes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53800 * Intrepion * (+23) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck]]
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19:15:40 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53801&oldid=53680 * Intrepion * (+13)
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19:26:58 <fizzie> I've never heard it called "BranFlakes".
19:28:35 <fizzie> Looks like there's a few cases on the webs though.
19:28:47 <fizzie> (And also an implementation by that name, but that's maybe not surprising.)
19:29:17 <fizzie> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/137821653/ for example.
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20:49:18 <\oren\> imagine if you defined every variable as auto, every function as template <typename X> and used tuples everywhere
20:49:40 <\oren\> you would then have a barbarian dialect of C++ without any types
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01:23:47 <esowiki> [[PL/MIX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53802 * B jonas * (+1065) Created page with "'''PL/MIX''' would have been a programming language that runs on the [[MIX (Knuth)|MIX]] computer. Donald Knuth would have described and implemented PL/MIX in The Art of Comp..."
01:24:17 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53803&oldid=53659 * B jonas * (+13)
01:24:54 <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth
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01:26:46 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't think you can make it.
01:28:00 <ais523> well, describe, at least
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01:39:44 <zzo38> I would still want to see PL/MIX.
01:40:31 <wob_jonas> We can also "describe" the ideal ancient C-like language that was the divine inspiration for prophets K&R, which got a bit distorted in their transcription. It would be rather similar to C, but the bitwise binary operators would probably have a higher precedence than the comparison operators.
01:40:42 <wob_jonas> That probably isn't the only difference.
01:41:23 <ais523> wob_jonas: the compound assignment operators had the = first
01:41:34 <ais523> (note that in present C, that + would be a unary +)
01:41:43 <ais523> I assume it was changed due to being ambiguous
01:42:05 <wob_jonas> but the ideal language probably uses += because =+ is ambiguous
01:42:06 <ais523> although as it's an abbreviation for a = a + b, abbreviating to =+ makes sense
01:42:19 <wob_jonas> I think the original pre-ansi C didn't have a monadic +
01:42:20 <ais523> oh, I see, I thought you were just talking about pre-standardisation C
01:42:53 <wob_jonas> I consider K&R prophets who didn't invent the language, but described the language God thought of
01:43:12 <wob_jonas> only they aren't perfect prophets, so they made some mistakes where they misunderstood the language God described to them in their prophetic visions
01:43:38 <wob_jonas> and the precedence of bitwise vs comparison is one of those mistakes, but it's too late to change now
01:44:08 <ais523> C is a pretty awkward language anyway
01:44:18 <ais523> it's meant to be close to the processor except processors don't work like that nowadays
01:44:39 <wob_jonas> the goal of that language is more or less the same as the goal of C, that is, being a simple then-high-level language that is easy to compile to any computer of that time, but allows writing portable programs among them
01:44:53 <wob_jonas> it was close to processors at that time
01:45:14 <ais523> that said, modern CPUs aren't even close to Checkout (which is fairly close to modern /G/PUs)
01:45:15 <wob_jonas> was still quite close to 386 actually, in both 16-bit and 32-bit mode
01:45:46 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout
01:46:15 <wob_jonas> right, that's supposed to be close to GPUs, not to CPUs
01:46:45 <wob_jonas> that's not close to CPUs by design
01:46:55 <ais523> well modern CPUs are more like Checkout than they are like C
01:46:58 <ais523> but they aren't that close to either
01:47:08 <zzo38> I would want to see a implementation of Checkout that can run on GPUs
01:47:55 <ais523> it probably compiles into both Cuda and OpenCL fairly directly
01:49:52 <zzo38> (Adding sine, cosine, and arctangent, and perhaps vector ops, and conditional set; do a few thing like ARB assembly language (although ARB assembly language is missing a arctangent function).)
01:50:25 <ais523> zzo38: Checkout effectively has vector operations
01:50:49 <ais523> just do a level 1 command inside a parloop
01:51:32 <zzo38> O, that's how you do it. But then if you need to combine with dot products?
01:53:41 <ais523> zzo38: level 1 has more than one word of memory (although it only has a few), there's enough space to do dot products there on most GPUs
01:54:12 <ais523> if not, say, you're trying to sum a vector whose elements were calculated in parallel, you use checkout/2 to shift the memory around and do a sort of binary tree sum
01:54:26 <ais523> s/say, you're/say you're/
01:54:39 <wob_jonas> zzo38: sine, cosine, and arctangent really aren't low-level commands appropriate for a language like checkout, I think. they're more like something you could implement as various library functions.
01:55:12 <wob_jonas> that's also true for modern CPUs by the way, and there are lots of library implementations
01:55:16 <ais523> wob_jonas: I wouldn't be surprised if modern GPUs had built-in trig lookups
01:55:17 <zzo38> The wiki article does say that it may include trigonometric functions and exponents, but not yet
01:55:42 <wob_jonas> ais523: they might have built-in ops that help, but not a full precise sine for every possible input I think
01:56:05 <ais523> wob_jonas: the built-in impl is probably something along the lines of fast inverse square root
01:56:12 <wob_jonas> there are probably various library implementations of course
01:56:17 <ais523> except it's faster if you do it in hardware and have a lookup to help
01:56:43 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, but inverse square root (and even square root) is totally so much easier to compute than sine or arctangent
01:57:47 <wob_jonas> at least if you compute the inverse square root and square root with hardware help, which is what you do these days
01:59:16 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth
01:59:18 <HackEgo> 1318) <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth
01:59:57 <zzo38> I don't know much about GPU either, but Checkout look like it can be good.
02:01:22 <zzo38> I have done programs in ARB assembly language, but found a few things I thought should have been done differently, such as, I would have thought using SSA would be better than what it currently does; I also thought it was missing a arctangent function.
02:02:30 <zzo38> (Also there is no integer mode; due to this, some things are complicated to implement properly.)
02:10:59 <ais523> hmm, now I sort-of want to make an esolang whose purpose is to be vaporware
02:11:17 <ais523> have a logo, grand claims about what it does, lots of documentation about governance and coding style and the like
02:11:21 <ais523> but no actual specification or implementation
02:12:00 <ais523> the great thing about this language is that as soon as anyone comes up with the concept of it, it by definition exists, because if it's ever completed it's completed and if it isn't completed it's vaporware, thus fulfils its own definition
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02:14:18 <ais523> wow, I just played the BF Derivatives Game for the first time in years, and scored only 2 (which is a very good score)
02:14:38 <ais523> I think the average quality of the wiki is improving :-D
02:14:56 <ais523> (PPCG even complained that we didn't have enough BF substitutions, although admittedly they were just looking for easy adds to the polyglot)
02:14:57 <oerjan> the PPCG people are helping
02:15:26 <ais523> oerjan: did you see that Ursala got added?
02:15:31 <ais523> IMO the polyglot is now redeemed
02:15:52 <ais523> also, the current Ursala docs make it fairly clear that the author has come to terms with the fact that it's actually an esolang
02:16:01 <oerjan> i upvote nearly every addition to that one.
02:16:24 <boily> is ursala an esolang or not.
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02:17:19 <ais523> boily: it was originally a borderline case but I think the author has finally admitted it's an esolang
02:17:34 <ais523> even originally it was described as being very experimental syntax-wise
02:18:45 <boily> thoerjan, thais523.
02:19:40 <boily> it looks like über-compressed golfing imho.
02:20:50 <ais523> boily: it's like a cross between two languages
02:21:00 <ais523> a pointer language, which looks like golflangs but is actually much more inefficient than that
02:21:10 <ais523> and a more general language around it, which looks more like perl 6
02:22:00 <shachaf> Experimental and esoteric are pretty orthogonal, aren't they?
02:22:24 <ais523> writing experimental languages is my day job
02:22:37 <ais523> and I often try to make them as non-eso as possible to not scare people off
02:22:48 <ais523> but my esoprogramming skills are helpful in actually writing programs in the languages I create
02:22:58 <boily> helloochaf. I would've thought they're p. much parallel, no?
02:43:07 <oerjan> . o O ( general position )
02:47:20 <ais523> anyway, a challenge I've been thinking a lot about recently: design an esolang so that the size of programs in the language, plus the size of the interpreter, is in general as small as possible
02:47:52 <shachaf> The interpreter in what language?
02:47:56 <ais523> this is intended for programs that are fairly large on modern systems as typical executables, in the hundreds of megabytes range
02:48:14 <ais523> shachaf: arbitrary languages, i.e. the interpreter is small compared to the size of the programs and easy to port
02:48:23 <ais523> most likely various dialects of machine code though
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06:10:29 <izabera> did you know that this is a thing
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06:11:36 <HackEgo> [U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND]
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06:57:11 <oerjan> . o O ( ah the bitcoin symbol )
07:00:31 <HackEgo> U+1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 b9 UTF-16BE: d83ddcb9 Decimal: 💹 \ 💹 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND \ UTF-8: f0 9f 93 88 UTF-16BE: d83ddcc8 Decimal: 📈 \ 📈 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F4C9
07:01:33 <oerjan> `` unicode CHART | grep CHART
07:01:35 <HackEgo> U+1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN \ U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND \ U+1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND \ U+1F4CA BAR CHART \ U+1F5E0 STOCK CHART
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08:36:25 <zzo38> If you live close enough to Knuth can you ask him about PL/MIX and XMIX?
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08:39:04 <doesthiswork> just tell him you're correcting a mistake in the book
08:40:59 <shachaf> zzo38: Why don't you send him mail?
08:41:36 <doesthiswork> However if you aren't careful he'll write another book about it
08:43:08 <zzo38> shachaf: I tried once and have not received a reply for several years. (But I know his secretary received it because the man who delivered it said so.)
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09:10:49 <shachaf> I got responses to emails via his secretary
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09:22:57 <esowiki> [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53804&oldid=47226 * Zzo38 * (+104) Some additions and corrections
09:33:12 <esowiki> [[Two]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53805&oldid=40308 * Zzo38 * (+49) Add categories
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11:58:14 <b_jonas> ais523: if Ursala turned out to be an esolang, then should the wiki get a page on it?
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12:09:18 <lambdabot> CYUL 121200Z 15015KT 8SM -RA SCT040 BKN075 OVC100 07/06 A2972 RMK SC4AC2AC2 SLP068
12:14:03 <int-e> boily: I have replaced http://downthetypehole.de/paste/So5kdG0C by http://downthetypehole.de/paste/nokKZ5De which even has some suggestive comments that are readable :)
12:15:42 <boily> comments! readability! ^^
12:22:49 <b_jonas> Obviously we have to be careful, or else we'll go on the slippery slope and add an entry for every programming language because someone considers it esoteric. It would start with APL-likes and perl, then prolog, cobol, php, awk, bash, haskell, common lisp, and eventually we'd get to even the saner languages like java and C and fortran.
12:24:49 <int-e> . o O ( Category: Nonesoteric )
12:28:52 <boily> php is esoteric? D:
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12:30:31 <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language
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12:48:09 <b_jonas> whereas perl started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, but it never became a programming language
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13:23:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/procrasti wisdom/procrastination
13:23:59 <HackEgo> The Procrasti were an ancient people whose nation would have been a great empire if they'd ever got around to it.
13:24:02 <HackEgo> The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
13:24:40 <b_jonas> "New Year's Resolution: do all my procrastination right now — don't keep putting it off." -- John Baez at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/diary/january_2018.html
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14:27:59 <b_jonas> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/make-love -- ah yes. a comic about the openssl changes that aren't source-compatible and retroactively introduce bugs in existing applications unless the maintainer very carefully re-reads the entire fucking manual at the major version bump. if you don't want to re-read it, you can never upgrade the major version of openssl, but the old version isn't maintained anymore.
14:33:58 <b_jonas> https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/rivals-ixalan-update-bulletin-2018-01-11 M:tG, Rivals of Ixalan Update Bulletin
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20:19:58 <lambdabot> It is necessary for me to establish a winner image. Therefore, I have to beat somebody.
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20:37:32 <esowiki> [[3switchBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53806&oldid=40847 * Mr Meems * (-1) Proofing
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23:57:27 <lambdabot> int-e said 11h 26m 55s ago: arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language
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00:15:12 <oerjan> bohejly! did you know you can easily segue between that familiar jazz tune and Bear Necessities hth
00:18:49 <shachaf> that song is obviously called "Bear Necessities" hth
00:25:08 <oerjan> shachaf: obviously, but apparently "Bare" is the official form
00:26:19 <oerjan> `addquote <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language
00:26:21 <HackEgo> 1319) <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language
00:26:28 <oerjan> quotabilities been picking up recently
00:27:44 <shachaf> oerjan: sometimes the official lyrics are wrong
00:29:30 <boily> it's obviously bear.
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00:49:27 <oerjan> . o O ( anything else would be unbearable )
00:55:33 * boily *THWACKS* oerjan. 0.26 FP.
00:56:11 <boily> 0.26 imperial, so 0.39 metric.
01:01:35 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/make-love -- ah yes. a comic about the openssl changes [...] <-- have you considered that you sometimes read too much into stuff tdnh hth
01:04:05 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas or alternatively, write too far out of it
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01:45:14 <oerjan> . o O ( this is when it would be nice if i personally logged the channel )
01:48:47 <oerjan> well, if i had personal logs, i'd have realized that.
01:50:45 * oerjan brings up the new fancy whole-month logs
01:51:03 <oerjan> this _was_ the first time you talked this month.
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02:04:26 <fizzie> oerjan: I was thinking of doing a search facility, but it's maybe a little much.
02:04:58 <Phantom_Hoover> we used to have that back when glogbot logged into the hackego filesystem
02:05:46 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Sure, but it wasn't fancy.
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02:06:10 <Phantom_Hoover> boily, someone who has been lurking in this channel for 17 years and has never, ever spoken in that time
02:06:46 <boily> 17 years? I doubt this channel's that old.
02:07:08 <fizzie> boily: We just turned 15 or so.
02:07:34 <oerjan> fizzie: are you _sure_ aloril wasn't mysteriously already there when it was created
02:07:43 <fizzie> oerjan: By some other name, maybe.
02:07:48 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway they're present within the first year or two of the clog logs
02:10:10 <fungot> oerjan: mehh the buses are very " special"
02:10:39 <oerjan> fungot: do they at least keep on the roads?
02:10:39 <fungot> oerjan: i know that i would somehow call the second filter
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02:49:32 <oerjan> the Drive comic has some annoying Scifi Writers have No Sense of Scale problems. :(
02:50:43 <oerjan> like, if you're traveling the galaxy, and _not_ incredibly close, then your sensor sensitivity isn't going to help you detect a lightspeed signal in a reasonable time
02:51:53 <oerjan> (that's re the latest comic)
02:58:45 <ais523> that seems like a comparable problem to lasers that emit light sideways
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03:03:29 <ais523> oerjan: because in real life you can't see the light from a laser unless it's pointed at you, so you're somehow detecting something that's far too far away despite it not broadcasting in your direction
03:03:42 <ais523> and yet lasers are universally visible from the side in scifi
03:04:31 <ais523> (the exception is if you have some sort of dusty or moist environment that's attenuating the laser, the attenuated light ends up radiating in all directions and makes the laser visible, that's how light shows work)
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03:11:49 <fizzie> I've been (re)reading the Lensman books, they're from the 50s and it shows.
03:11:52 <fizzie> A "computer" is a person calculating things.
03:11:58 <fizzie> When they're arranging a conference of scientists, it involves passing punch cards through a sorting machine to find the best ones.
03:12:03 <fizzie> "Then for hours bale after bale of cards went through the machine; thousands of records per minute. Occasionally one card would flip out into a rack, rejected."
03:12:14 <fizzie> Yet they have so-much-faster-than-light travel and the whole Lensman Arms Race going on.
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03:13:16 <fizzie> (Or I guess they're maybe from the 30s-40s if you look at original publication time, I don't know how much they were reworked when collected in books.)
03:16:21 <fizzie> "For eight hours two hundred Rigellians stood at whining calculators, each solving course-and-distance problems at the rate of ten per minute."
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08:45:47 <zzo38> They say 2600 gets more payphone pictures for every issue than anything else. (It is published quarterly, and each issue includes eight payphone pictures.)
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13:31:32 <esowiki> [[User:Minin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53807&oldid=53586 * Minin * (+1)
13:34:34 <esowiki> [[User:Minin/modern.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53808 * Minin * (+60) Created page with "#mw_content { background-color: #000; color: #aaa; }"
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13:53:17 <lambdabot> CYUL 131333Z 31013KT 3/8SM R06L/3000FT/N R06R/3000FT/N SN BLSN VV002 M12/M14 A2998 RMK SN8 PRESRR SLP155
13:57:32 <esowiki> [[Groinfrick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53820 * Minin * (+927) Created page with "== groinfrick == totally not a [[Brainfuck]] clone === Commands === {| class="wikitable sortable" |- ! ^ !! Set current pointer to corrosponding argument point |- | ? || Echo..."
13:58:07 <esowiki> [[Groinfrick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53821&oldid=53820 * Minin * (-13)
14:02:49 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53822&oldid=53803 * Minin * (+17) /* G */
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03:42:20 <zzo38> Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who are out try to get the team who is in to be out, and then the team who was previously out can be in. Whoever earn more points wins.
03:42:49 <zzo38> (Unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins.)
03:44:53 <shachaf> For many years I thought cricket was the same as croquet.
03:44:57 <zzo38> Let's see if it will fit
03:45:04 <zzo38> Well, it isn't the same; they are two different thing.
03:46:03 <zzo38> `slashlearn cricket//Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who are out try to get the team who is in to be out, and then the team who was previously out can be in. Whoever earn more points wins, unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins.
03:46:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'cricket': Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who are out try to get the team who is in to be out, and then the team who was previously out can be in. Whoever earn more points wins, unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins.
03:46:16 <zzo38> (If it isn't good, please alter it.)
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04:17:15 <\oren\> https://www.twitch.tv/zzorenZZ can u check this and tell me what kinda framerate u get?
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04:46:18 <oerjan> . o O ( is it too late to point out i was thinking about the insect )
04:50:00 <oerjan> `slwd cricket//s,are,is,;s,try,tries,;s,earn,&s,
04:50:02 <HackEgo> cricket//Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who is out tries to get the team who is in to be out, and then the team who was previously out can be in. Whoever earns more points wins, unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins.
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04:56:22 <zzo38> It isn't late; write about that too (although maybe the message is too long; or make it a disambiguation file if you want to)
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06:46:04 <zzo38> Where does Transmission store the files? I told it to store in ~/torrent and it created that directory although it is empty.
06:46:57 <zzo38> The list of files says some files are complete.
06:47:28 <zzo38> (Including several files I did not ask it to download)
06:49:09 <zzo38> Ah, now it works. I don't know why it didn't work before?
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17:36:52 <variable> "Which number does this Befunge code output: "
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17:44:05 <esowiki> [[TOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53823&oldid=43212 * Null * (+191) add jp
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22:52:41 <zseri> https://github.com/zserik/zsdbp5/tree/develop
22:55:14 <zseri> a hierarchic database library
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02:57:16 <\oren\> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485312084
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03:47:59 <zzo38> zseri: Perhaps explain it a bit?
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05:36:54 <oerjan> . o O ( please be more constant )
05:56:57 <\oren\> the british had to make a law saying don't release hydrochloric acid into the air. but they named it the alkali act
06:05:38 <oerjan> one could say they were ... off base
06:06:38 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Eek" oerjan the shifty loud poet is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
06:06:48 <oerjan> shachaf: i noticed this hth
06:07:59 <shachaf> also why are you awake hth
06:08:16 <oerjan> because i have an insane sleeping cycle hth
06:08:39 <shachaf> do you really call it a cycle twh
06:17:54 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Eek" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
06:21:22 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
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07:29:45 <esowiki> [[Talk:PL/MIX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53824 * Zzo38 * (+246) Created page with "Nevertheless I would be interested in such thing, at least. I don't know if, you can ask Knuth and then other people can write it in case Knuth does not want to do so. --~~~~"
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08:43:50 <lambdabot> ENVA 150820Z 17018G36KT 130V200 CAVOK 01/M07 Q0999 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 16030G48KT RMK WIND 670FT 18039G59KT
08:53:32 <zzo38> I corrected a mistake in my "rgbff" program now
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12:17:35 <lambdabot> LOWI 151150Z 26007KT CAVOK 02/M07 Q1018 NOSIG
12:17:49 <int-e> Very boring weather. I like it.
12:20:25 <lambdabot> CYUL 151200Z 02010KT 4SM BR FEW004 OVC220 M23/M26 A3085 RMK SF1CI8 SF TR SLP452
12:20:53 <boily> int-e. I want your weather.
12:25:11 <int-e> "Brume" meaning mist
12:25:38 <boily> I was close, but I mist it.
12:26:20 <int-e> and wtf, pressure in mmHg?
12:26:48 <int-e> I won't even try deciphering the RMK
12:28:31 <boily> pressure calibrated for the airport is in inHg (30.85), and sea level pressure is in hPa (1004.52).
12:29:02 <boily> (1045.2? I forget again.)
12:29:59 <boily> SF1CI8 matches clouds, meaning there's a few stratofractus at 400’, and cirrus overcast at 22,000’.
12:30:01 <int-e> the latter makes more sense
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12:31:36 <int-e> "In our case, we end up translating SLP127 to 1012.7 hPa or mbar."
12:32:06 <int-e> "It helps to know that the standard sea level pressure is 1013.2 hPa; for practical purposes 950-1049 is a reasonable range for this value. [The highest pressure ever recorded was 1085.7 and the lowest was 870, so that’s not absolutely true; the 870 was recorded in the eye of a typhoon and the high in winter in Mongolia in extreme cold, so not normal conditions]"
12:34:54 <int-e> http://www.wingsbywerntz.com/520-metar-slp-sea-level-pressure has more good information as well
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12:36:59 <lambdabot> EGLL 151220Z AUTO 22013KT 9999 -RA SCT010 SCT016 BKN030 11/09 Q0993 TEMPO SHRA SCT010
12:38:32 <fizzie> RMK is short for "root mean kube", analogously to root mean square. (It's not.)
12:39:39 <b_jonas> ""Brume" meaning mist" => or it's a BRight sunny day with just a slight BReeze
12:48:18 <int-e> bragging brainy brats ask for bruises?
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13:56:04 <zseri> hi. still working on ttps://github.com/zserik/zsdbp5
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14:10:52 <HackEgo> \ Title: DEEP TARTMETSON USO \ Categories: Desserts, Main dish, Meats, Ceideburg 2 \ Yield: 4 Servings \ \ 1 lb Chopped onion \ 6 oz Mayonnaise peeled, finely chopped \ 5 Eggs \ 8 Chicken broth \ 1 cn Milk \ 1/2 c Sugar \ 2 lb Beef chopped fresh \ Salt and pepper \ Scallions (chopped) \ Salt \ Salt \ Pepper; cut into \ -choppe
14:11:20 <b_jonas> Mayonnaise peeled and chopped?
14:11:58 <b_jonas> 1 cn... how do these crazy measurements work again?
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14:21:52 <zseri> The advantage of zsdbp5 in comparision with zsdatab is that zsdbp5 has almost always sorted links and can use binary search to find a node, while zsdatab has to go through the table sequencially.
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16:01:16 <esowiki> [[Groinfrick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53825&oldid=53821 * Zseri * (+1) fix first table
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16:48:09 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font
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21:45:26 <esowiki> [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53826&oldid=53439 * HereToAnnoy * (-320) minor edits
21:48:02 <int-e> . o O ( Can the tables be turned though? )
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22:27:41 <FireFly> `slwd fonts//s;$; , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ \& https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984;
22:27:55 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font
22:28:49 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
22:29:44 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
22:30:54 <FireFly> I don't *think* the ampersand would have to be doubly-escaped..
22:31:27 <FireFly> and semicolon as separator should be a-ok
22:31:34 <FireFly> `slwd fonts//s;$; , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ \\& https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984;
22:33:26 <FireFly> `` echo "$(cat wisdom/fonts) , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984" >/tmp/a && cp /tmp/a wisdom/fonts && cat wisdom/fonts
22:33:27 <int-e> I suspect it's "font", not "fonts"
22:33:28 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/fonts: No such file or directory \ , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984
22:33:54 <FireFly> `slwd font//s;$; , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ \& https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984;
22:33:57 <HackEgo> font//#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's f
22:34:20 <int-e> `` mv wisdom/font{,s}
22:34:24 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's font
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23:00:34 <lambdabot> CYUL 152200Z 05010KT 15SM SCT240 M17/M21 A3069 RMK CI4 SLP400
23:01:53 <int-e> fungot: what's new today?
23:01:53 <fungot> int-e: anybody knows where to find them :))
23:02:01 <fungot> int-e: at least the guy's beliefs aren't destructive or malicious.
23:02:19 <int-e> fungot: I was wrong, *that* was creepy
23:02:19 <fungot> int-e: g!mm(_o)o!"no you fnord it's gorgeous: http://upload.wikimedia.org/ wikipedia/ commons/ fnord
23:03:09 <int-e> must be a weird corner of the language model.
23:05:15 <fizzie> fungot: Get back to your incoherent self.
23:05:16 <fungot> fizzie: the pickle protocol can only store an approximation. but 5 evaluates to itself. ( 0xfe there is -2.) but in between i need to
23:06:44 <int-e> `` tail -n1 quotes
23:06:45 <HackEgo> <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language
23:09:07 <zzo38> PHP does not seem quite the best kind of programming language, although, it is a programming language, and the IRC client I am using is written in PHP. One thing I would like to have though is a way to be able to call PHP functions from JavaScript.
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23:10:21 <int-e> (if I had known that this was the most recent quote I would've used a direct privmsg)
23:12:05 <zzo38> But if you know what one it is, why you need to check them at all?
23:12:59 <HackEgo> 70) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
23:13:18 <int-e> zzo38: I was going to lament that there are no new quotes.
23:13:32 <zzo38> New quotes compared to what?
23:13:39 <int-e> But it didn't work.
23:14:16 <zzo38> There are many quotes and they are new compared to some time ago, or else it is old.
23:14:23 <boily> int-ello, fizziello, hezzo38!
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23:15:39 <int-e> zzo38: I was hoping for months instead of a day or two :P
23:18:59 <zzo38> Ah. Well, now you know.
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23:24:24 <HackEgo> 69) <ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.?
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23:41:11 <\oren\> I don't know what asshole email program these ppl are using but it does this
23:41:28 <\oren\> ^ ^ ^ these are NOT normal spaces
23:42:59 <HackEgo> 69) <ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.?
23:43:52 <HackEgo> [U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE]
23:44:08 <fizzie> I'm sure there's some way that makes sense.
23:44:35 <HackEgo> [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES] [U+0062 LATIN SMALL LETTER B]
23:45:09 <\oren\> int-e: This is why my font displays all non-normal spaces with visible glyphs
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23:45:28 <fizzie> `quote invisible times
23:45:29 <HackEgo> 996) <fizzie> "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.)
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23:45:45 <\oren\> In tiny writing I see "INV MUL"
23:47:10 <int-e> <-- see how much I care.
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23:51:10 <int-e> shachaf: http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2018/01/15/855-these-are-the-jokes/ has some fun puns
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01:11:27 <oerjan> <int-e> must be a weird corner of the language model. <-- i think there was some Glass in there.
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01:33:13 <oerjan> <fizzie> I'm sure there's some way that makes sense. <-- presumably they didn't want their spaces to break.
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01:45:54 <fizzie> oerjan: Half of them might still break, though.
01:46:04 <fizzie> (I'm guessing something about whitespace coalescing.)
01:49:38 <oerjan> fizzie: i think you cannot have a break between an nbsp and an ordinary space, so you only need half
01:49:57 <oerjan> (well, i'm also half guessing)
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02:59:36 <oerjan> today's mezzacotta has a certain elegance.
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11:27:12 <b_jonas> int-e: but there are. there's one from just a week ago, I think.
11:27:20 <HackEgo> 1318) <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth
11:29:03 <b_jonas> \oren\: that's usually how people quote multiple spaces when targetting HTML. in older browsers, adding non-breaking spaces was practically the only consistent way to write multiple spaces, unless you put the whole thing in pre tags.
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12:28:05 <esowiki> [[Tampio]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53827 * B jonas * (+274) Created page with "'''Tampio''' is a programming language whose syntax tries to resemble Finnish language. == Links == [https://github.com/fergusq/tampio Github page with description of lang..."
12:28:27 <esowiki> [[Perligata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53828&oldid=8683 * B jonas * (+24)
12:29:02 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53829&oldid=53822 * B jonas * (+13)
12:29:35 <b_jonas> Why does the esowiki main page says "the complete list of languages"? That's an outright lie.
12:34:20 <fizzie> Should it be "the best-effort list of languages"?
12:34:37 <b_jonas> fizzie: maybe "our list of languages"
12:35:34 <fizzie> I did some statistics the other year on how many languages are in Category:Languages, Language list or both.
12:35:44 <fizzie> (Can't really count how many are on neither.)
12:37:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: what did you get? I just added one to the category when it was already in the list
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13:12:50 <HackEgo> 574) <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED \ 1160) <zzo38> I think it is allowed to be both sane and insane simultaneously.
13:12:51 <fizzie> I don't remember the results. Probably the majority were on both, but there are quite many exceptions. I'll check again some day.
13:13:23 <int-e> fungot: wish me luck?
13:13:23 <fungot> int-e: actually siperia was located in tampere, where one of them
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13:13:59 <fizzie> Don't take geography lessons from fungot.
13:13:59 <fungot> fizzie: i just thought it did. :p
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16:04:35 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's font
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18:26:45 <int-e> b_jonas: are you searching for the font of wisdom?
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18:36:13 <esowiki> [[User talk:Moon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53830&oldid=53089 * HereToAnnoy * (-395)
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19:27:59 <wob_jonas> I'm making tea from teabags labeled "Fresh Orange". What the heck is "Fresh" supposed to mean in that?
19:28:44 <ais523> wob_jonas: it's one of the words that people put on food to make it sound better
19:29:02 <ais523> I guess it has a meaning, technically? but I don't think advertisers care about what it is, most of the time
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20:19:01 <wob_jonas> there should be one of those that has Turing-complete loops
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20:44:32 <\oren\> FIFTY YEARS OF BUGGY CODE DUE TO THIS
20:44:37 <\oren\> "Important semantic issues remained unresolved in the 1967 manual, for example the actual meaning of the LOGAND and LOGOR operators. The compiler in 1967 distinguished between & | used in `truth-value' contexts and ordinary value contexts; in the first context they were handled as sequential tests, in the second as bit operations. The manual doesn't talk about this."
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20:54:53 <wob_jonas> matlab has some horrible crazy semantic stuff like that
20:55:09 <wob_jonas> one for how it interprets those operators, and one for which arrays count as true
21:02:24 <\oren\> the predecessor to C, and this fact caused the bitwise operator precedence fiasco
21:03:08 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah, but matlab is more horrible
21:03:59 <\oren\> also how to troll haskell speakers
21:04:24 <\oren\> "Haskell is, much like perl, unreadable to those who don't write it."
21:05:25 <\oren\> it isn't, but this statement came up in a discussion
21:06:15 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
21:07:17 <\oren\> also, apparently I can't even find a precedence table for haskell
21:09:05 <wob_jonas> \oren\: it's hard to make a complete one, because just like prolog, libraries can define new operators with the precedence of their choice
21:09:14 <wob_jonas> but I think I saw a table with the operators in the standard somewhere
21:15:06 <wob_jonas> \oren\: ah yes, here: https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch4.html#x10-820004.4.2
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21:43:13 <esowiki> [[User talk:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53831&oldid=53197 * HereToAnnoy * (-123) Blanked the page
21:44:28 <esowiki> [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53832&oldid=53753 * HereToAnnoy * (+32)
21:45:29 <\oren\> What I don't understand is why haskell only supports imperative syntax for IO
21:49:59 <esowiki> [[TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53833&oldid=53214 * HereToAnnoy * (+102) /* Cat program (EOF=FF) */ derp
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21:58:58 <fizzie> Why doesn't anyone make 20"-ish 1920x1440 4:3 monitors?
21:59:04 <fizzie> I have a very nice 25" 2560x1440 screen as a "primary" monitor, paired with an old 20" 1600x1200 screen that makes a hiss when turned on and also turns off randomly every now and then. Sooner or later it's going to give up the ghost entirely, and then I'd like to replace it with a same-height same-DPI 4:3 monitor.
21:59:19 <fizzie> Except I can't, because there are none.
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22:17:29 <esowiki> [[TwoFiftyFive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53834&oldid=53833 * HereToAnnoy * (+789)
22:23:50 <esowiki> [[Talk:TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53835&oldid=53230 * HereToAnnoy * (+315)
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22:32:50 <esowiki> [[TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53836&oldid=53834 * HereToAnnoy * (-120)
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22:36:38 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53837&oldid=53829 * HereToAnnoy * (+10) /* N */ added language "Neg"
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23:19:11 <esowiki> [[Arrows]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53838&oldid=53202 * HereToAnnoy * (+1404) Started adding actual functionality to the language. Should've done this a long time ago.
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23:32:44 <HackEgo> 1/3:cookie//Hackego wants a cookie! *hangs* \ substructural typing//Not to be confused with structural subtyping. \ computer//Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the characters '1' and '0'. \ time cube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie &
23:32:50 <HackEgo> 2/3:Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. \ cocoa//A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not
23:32:53 <HackEgo> 3/3: understanding things on top of letters.
23:33:24 <boily> `` wc -c wisdom/time\ cube
23:33:34 <boily> `` wc -c wisdom/oerjan
23:33:40 <boily> `` wc -c wisdom/boily
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23:55:19 <\oren\> the kemlin is in moskwo, the capital of urssia
23:57:23 <fizzie> `` find wisdom/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 wc -c | sort -nr | grep -v total | head -n 5
23:57:25 <HackEgo> 604 wisdom/ance \ 568 wisdom/o \ 557 wisdom/zarutian \ 477 wisdom/brilliant \ 438 wisdom/font
23:57:48 <fizzie> Those are unarguably too long.
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00:30:01 <\oren\> `learn The PLARF is the People's Liberation Army Rocket Force.
00:30:03 <HackEgo> Learned 'plarf': The PLARF is the People's Liberation Army Rocket Force.
00:34:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ance: not found
00:34:15 <HackEgo> Spelling of -ance/-ence words: advance, science, conference, experience, finance, insurance, licence, performance, reference, assistance, balance, defence, difference, distance, evidence, acceptance, appliance, audience, compliance, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, preference, presence, sentence, sequence, substance, viol
00:34:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?ence: not found
00:35:14 <HackEgo> o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world,
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00:49:17 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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00:55:19 <hppavilion[1]> If love and lust were physical quantities, and one (feel free to choose) was a base quantity, how would the other be defined?
00:55:28 <hppavilion[1]> (alternatively, you may choose some third quantity as the base and define both in terms of it)
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02:33:02 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53839&oldid=53837 * Oerjan * (-61) Aehnort aery, aehnort aaabeehiilnoprttz.
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11:56:34 <lambdabot> LOWI 171150Z 27009KT 210V340 3000 SN SCT007 SCT020 BKN060 00/M01 Q1004 R08/29//95 NOSIG
11:58:30 <int-e> grading, it would be E for effort... barely freezing :P
11:59:07 <fizzie> "M01" is the conventional Finnish informal greeting.
11:59:16 <lambdabot> EGLL 171150Z AUTO 28019G31KT 9999 NCD 07/M01 Q1008 NOSIG
11:59:46 <fizzie> Nice day for voting. (Advance voting for Finnish presidential elections has started.)
11:59:54 <lambdabot> EGSC 171150Z 27018KT 9999 FEW026 06/M00 Q1005
12:02:19 <Taneb> This is the closest I've ever lived to an airport
12:07:02 <Taneb> I'm now in Cambridge, quite close to the airport
12:07:11 <Taneb> Which would be great if it had any scheduled flights
12:10:21 <fizzie> "Cambridge International Airport" sounds impressive.
12:10:40 <fizzie> http://www.cambridgeairport.com/announcements/ looks a little less impressive, though.
12:11:01 <shachaf> Can you fly your own airplanes there?
12:11:20 <Taneb> I presume so! I often see small planes overhead
12:12:47 <Taneb> I flew a glider once
12:17:17 <lambdabot> CYUL 171200Z 21004KT 6SM BR BKN007 OVC050 M11/M13 A3037 RMK ST7SC1 FROIN SLP289
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12:25:00 <int-e> (I'm sure we've done this before, but somebody mentioned gliders)
12:25:19 <shachaf> I flew a walkalong glider once.
12:26:19 * int-e is trying to mix the portis up a little.
12:31:44 <shachaf> Rather than a porti, which is portmanteau involving the word "hi" followed by a name, you should try a thi -- "terminal hi" -- where the word "hi" comes at the end.
12:35:39 <b_jonas> I wonder if the unpronouncable journalistic term "kéksisakosok" was invented by print journalists, to screw with television, where the newscasters had difficulties pronouncing that word.
12:44:06 <int-e> shachaf: I think I like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKyOaDh5USI whatever that may say about me
12:53:25 <int-e> no. just creepy in a way that appeals to me
12:55:03 <int-e> I was an accidental find, I was really looking for Darcy Lynne :P
12:56:22 <int-e> oh maybe shachaf meant b_jonas.
12:57:13 <shachaf> Maybe oerjan will swat me in the morning.
12:57:49 <int-e> I'm sure you deserve it.
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15:13:31 <fizzie> Hm. Been a big increase in "Subject: hi" emails since about two days ago. Wonder if that's a global campaign or something.
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15:29:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's a nice default general title, suitable for spam, because some real people actually write emails with such stupid subjects, so the people who has bosses who write important emails like that will have to look at more of the spam than just the title
15:29:24 <b_jonas> spam with empty subject is even better though
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15:47:38 <shachaf> fizzie: boily is mounting an attack hth
15:47:43 <shachaf> or is it monqy? probably monqy
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15:51:41 <int-e> Hmm, no Hi spam for me. But this one says "Dear Student Recruiter", that's a role I was blissfully unaware of.
15:53:12 <int-e> @google "ontology engineering"
15:53:13 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_engineering
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16:10:27 <shachaf> Is that a recruiter who's a student or a recruiter who recruits students?
16:23:51 <Taneb> It could be someone studying to become a recruiter
16:24:00 <Taneb> Like an apprentice blacksmith
16:24:43 <shachaf> Right, that's what I meant by the first case.
16:25:00 <shachaf> I suppose you could say that an apprentice blacksmith is not a blacksmith.
16:27:38 <Taneb> Oh, I thought you meant a student who is also a recruiter
16:27:45 <fizzie> I guess that depends on whether you can replace a blacksmith with an apprentice blacksmith.
16:28:46 <fizzie> Wonder if "strict blacksmith" would be a good term for the thing an apprentice blacksmith is not.
16:29:16 <Taneb> Does the set of strict blacksmiths include journeymen blacksmiths
16:29:28 <Taneb> Or is it just master blacksmiths
16:32:02 <fizzie> I don't know. I guess there's more to blacksmithing.
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17:03:35 <b_jonas> fizzie: wouldn't you call them a "master blacksmith"?
17:05:32 <Taneb> b_jonas, not if you count journeymen
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20:56:24 <wob_jonas> fizzie: that's a very good question. the monitor I have is a 25.5 inch one with 16:10 ratio and 1920x1200 resolution, unlike the typical 16:9 ratio. And that might be hard to replace if I ever want to, although I think this will last for a while.
20:57:08 <wob_jonas> I too would like if tall monitors were available.
20:58:46 <wob_jonas> fizzie: wow, I think I made only one of those top five
20:58:58 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's font
20:59:22 <wob_jonas> we could remove the second link to lifthrasiir's font
21:00:31 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<","wisdom/font";local$/;$_=<$h>;s/ \S+sample\.png//; print
21:00:32 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twit
21:00:54 <FireFly> you could remove the ' & ' and everything past that, too
21:01:33 <HackEgo> font//#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's f
21:01:44 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>;s/ \S+sample\.png// or die; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o$_; print; }
21:01:45 <HackEgo> Scalar found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "$o$_" \ (Missing operator before $_?)
21:01:59 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>;s/ \S+sample\.png// or die; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print;
21:01:59 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twit
21:02:08 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>;s/ \S+sample\.png// or die; if (1) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print;
21:02:10 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twit
21:02:16 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twit
21:02:33 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>;s/ \S+sample\.png// or die; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print substr $_,200;
21:02:34 <HackEgo> Died at -e line 1, <$h> chunk 1.
21:02:43 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; ; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print substr $_,200;
21:02:44 <HackEgo> board20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984
21:03:31 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; s"\S+/twitter\.com/""; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print substr $_,200;
21:03:32 <HackEgo> board20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & FireyFly/status/899965577481129984
21:03:53 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; s"& \S+/twitter\.com/\S+""; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print substr $_,200;
21:03:54 <HackEgo> board20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
21:04:05 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; s"& \S+/twitter\.com/\S+""; if (1) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print substr $_,200;
21:04:06 <HackEgo> board20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
21:04:08 <HackEgo> , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984
21:04:16 <FireFly> well, except for the $_,200 bit
21:04:26 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ & https://twit
21:04:35 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; s"& \S+/twitter\.com/\S+""; if (0) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print;
21:04:36 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
21:04:55 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; s"& \S+/twitter\.com/\S+""; if (1) { open $o,">",$f;print$o $_; } print;
21:04:57 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
21:05:00 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
21:05:26 <wob_jonas> `perl -e open$h,"<",($f="wisdom/font");local$/;$_=<$h>; print substr$_,250;
21:05:26 <HackEgo> m/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
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23:23:50 <fungot> boily: yup. bigloo is a scheme plugin for irssi. :)
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00:53:09 <lifthrasiir> so that's why I've mentioned multiple times.
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01:10:12 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Thu Jan 18 02:10:11 2018
01:11:03 <shachaf> lambdabot needs a plugin that tells you the time in ØST
01:16:54 <oerjan> the timezone is correct hth
01:18:59 <shachaf> ØST would take your actual sleep schedule into account hth
01:20:10 <fizzie> fungot: Have you started tracking time in GST twnh?
01:20:10 <fungot> fizzie: yay for packaging s48-refman! ( list-vector lst) n x))
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01:26:07 <boily> . o O ( does oerjan sleep? is it sleep? is he a mystical seer who can enter a trancelike state and cast nutella balls to see the Future? )
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02:14:03 <shachaf> is oerjan going to swat me for my stretch of a pun twh
02:23:17 <oerjan> shachaf: we apologize for the delay, logreading will resume shortly.
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03:09:32 <oerjan> well, just as soon as i get something to eat, anyway.
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03:48:11 <HackEgo> This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though.
03:49:35 * oerjan applies a terminal saucepan to shachaf ===\__/
03:50:53 <oerjan> `swrjan s/twice/thrice/
03:50:55 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it.
03:51:02 <oerjan> i didn't notice that hth
03:52:44 <oerjan> (what are the rules for noticeless puns, anyway)
04:09:17 * oerjan has half a mind to ban b_jonas until he stops editing wisdoms with perl -e
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05:18:13 <shachaf> oerjan: p. sure if you notice it immediately it counts as noticing
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07:08:12 <shachaf> oerjan: The thing is, if you pun without noticing it, and then you notice it, it doesn't count
07:08:36 <shachaf> But if you don't notice it, everyone else thinks it was on purpose
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07:39:09 <oerjan> that's OKAY I CAN CORRECT THEM
07:40:06 <Taneb> I consistently procrastinate alighting bed please advise
07:40:07 <shachaf> this is why swatting was invented hth
07:40:35 <oerjan> Taneb: i suggest not putting your bed alight hth
07:41:01 <Taneb> But then how else will I get out of it
07:42:06 <Taneb> At this time of year??
07:42:11 <Taneb> Maybe in a couple of months
07:42:56 <shachaf> but more than once, one swallow doesn't bring the spring
07:44:01 <oerjan> african or european swallowing?
07:46:26 <Taneb> I'm in Britain after all
07:48:31 <Taneb> And we're not going to be leaving Europe until next year at least
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08:17:22 <shachaf> Taneb is Dutch anyway, right?
08:17:59 <Taneb> Like, genuinely, I don't know if I'm eligible for Dutch citizenship or not
08:26:11 <shachaf> Oh man, just a few years ago your were intending to intend to try to try
08:27:55 <Taneb> Trying to do something is monadic
08:28:04 <Taneb> If you can do something, you can try to do it
08:28:14 <Taneb> If you can try to try to do something, you can try to do it
08:28:59 <Taneb> And if when you can do something it means you can do something else, if you can try to do the first thing you can try to do the second
08:29:53 <shachaf> I think it's a modal operator
08:30:15 <shachaf> What's the dual? Not trying not to do something
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15:49:23 <int-e> @google coinfluence
15:49:25 <lambdabot> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coinfluence
15:49:49 <HackEgo> nevisitcoin (coin ambdacoin rewcoin stre-calcoin autcoin ortcoin daskercoin picoin omgrusecoin cobombillcoin novelcoin autucoin formacoin tingcoin digicoin ilosimulacoin singcoin autucoin deltaphycoin
15:50:04 <int-e> fungot: do you have any singcoin?
15:50:05 <fungot> int-e: opening a fnord thingie now, so need only decide when to truncate decimals that are irrational?
15:50:19 <int-e> fungot: I'll take that as a yes.
15:50:19 <fungot> int-e: old code that unfortunately hasn't been maintained in about a day
15:51:01 <int-e> fungot: that's an awfully quick deprecation cycle
15:51:01 <fungot> int-e: parse error near token " work".) be arbitrarily big? because then continuations are free ( in the us, and those two programs would not be hard to find
16:01:54 <fizzie> int-e: Sounds very much like the way things go here at work.
16:02:12 <fizzie> The standard joke is that there's always two ways to do anything: the one that's deprecated, and the one that's not ready yet.
16:02:28 <fizzie> Sometimes there's a third way that's not ready yet, but also deprecated.
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19:25:08 <esowiki> [[Black Turing-completeness proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53840 * Keymaker * (+34136) Black Turing-completeness proof via translation.
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19:34:08 <esowiki> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53841&oldid=49856 * Keymaker * (-260) /* Computational class */
19:35:23 <esowiki> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53842&oldid=53841 * Keymaker * (+16) Categories.
19:37:59 <esowiki> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53843&oldid=53842 * Keymaker * (+132) Interpreter.
19:41:02 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Keymaker * uploaded "[[File:MMtoBlack23123.png]]": A Minsky Machine program translated into Black, execution at step 23123.
19:45:31 <esowiki> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53845&oldid=53843 * Keymaker * (+94) Added image of a translated program running.
19:48:26 <esowiki> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53846&oldid=53845 * Keymaker * (+2) Fixed image layout.
19:50:27 <esowiki> [[User:Keymaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53847&oldid=53613 * Keymaker * (+38) Linked Black proof.
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20:15:40 <HackEgo> 879) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight> what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight> but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter> I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight> dar
20:16:11 <HackEgo> 512) <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of a monadic human centipede. \ 1247) <oren> I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea
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20:37:00 <\oren\> I really want to destroy catholicism before 900. anyone know an easy wy to get a claim on Latium?
20:45:10 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, Latium is supposed to be quite expensive because it's rare and can't be replicated. so I don't think there's an easy way.
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20:53:06 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
20:54:44 <shachaf> @ask boily why are mapoles measured in inHg and not mmHg tdnh
20:55:28 <int-e> shachaf: it's to avoid big numbers, duh
21:03:07 <olsner> 0.5inHg is about 0.0000127kmHg, which is even bigger
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22:11:33 <HackEgo> olist 1110: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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23:08:52 <Phantom_Hoover> and the following line of code: double base_max_thrust = GetPowerThrustModifier() * GetHeatThrustModifier() * AttachedReactor.MaximumPower / _maxISP / PluginHelper.GravityConstant * GetHeatExchangerThrustDivisor();
23:09:17 <Phantom_Hoover> is base_max_thrust going to be directly or inversely proportional to the result of GetHeatExchangerThrustDivisor()?
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23:14:34 <alercah> that looks like a recipe for numerical instability though
23:16:45 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm reading this code in the first place because i'm v. suspicious of its results
23:18:12 <Phantom_Hoover> it's for a KSP mod that lets you attach a thermal rocket nozzle to a nuclear reactor and what i've observed is that for nozzles much smaller than the reactor the thrust output is insanely large
23:18:42 <Phantom_Hoover> this is the source of the actual function https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/blob/8ef9bd112e899bc74ff6a2df9933aabf4de458fe/FNPlugin/Propulsion/ThermalNozzleController.cs#L1518
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23:32:24 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't know what the actual fuck is up with the normalizeFraction function directly below though
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23:37:53 <alercah> half, with slightly different rounding
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23:40:57 <alercah> Phantom_Hoover: I'd seriously look for instability though
23:42:31 <Phantom_Hoover> instability should only matter if the quantities involved are either very small or the computation is iterative though, surely?
23:45:32 <alercah> and that includes intermediate quantities
23:45:41 <alercah> you have a lot of multiplications and divisions going on
23:45:50 <alercah> it's possible for instability to come out of getting too big or too small on any intermediate value
23:46:06 <alercah> also working with quantities of different magnitudes can lead to instability as well
23:46:18 <alercah> though that's more with addition/subtraction
23:50:44 <Phantom_Hoover> it's because the reactor radius variable is actually constant for a given model even if you change its size
23:51:11 <Phantom_Hoover> i can never tell which parts are rocket science i don't understand, which parts are half-finished features and which parts are total bugs
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01:58:46 <ais523> a concept that I just found out about today: "streaming compiler"
01:59:05 <ais523> it's a compiler that compiles code while you're still downloading it, the compile is basically finished at the same time as the download
01:59:13 <ais523> (it's in the news because Mozilla wrote one)
01:59:28 <ais523> that's one of the more interesting arguments for one-pass compilation that I've seen
02:01:37 <alercah> that is neat and makes a lot of sense
02:03:21 <ais523> yes, and it's not an idea I'd expect to have had, but it's obvious in retrospect
02:03:40 <ais523> in addition to the obvious uses on the web, it could make sense for something like gentoo
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09:30:34 <esowiki> [[ANItka]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53848&oldid=47074 * Rjozefowicz * (-5) author's name changed
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15:02:24 <int-e> is that a hyperbolical version of the arg function?
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15:08:15 <int-e> it really should be :P
15:08:37 <b_jonas> it's my reaction to having to try to create a branch and check it out in MS team foundation version control using visual studio
15:11:04 <HackEgo> stat: cannot stat ‘bin/arhg’: No such file or directory
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15:13:44 <shachaf> How come there are no good version control systems?
15:14:05 <b_jonas> so far I ended up with a mysteriously disappeared branch (it's not just deleted, I know how to list deleted entries)
15:14:18 <b_jonas> but with a mapping still existing to that disappeared branch
15:14:43 <int-e> shachaf: maybe version control is hard
15:14:52 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's really hard to write a good one
15:15:09 <shachaf> But people don't even try anymore.
15:15:11 <b_jonas> I've been thinking about it again recently
15:15:19 <shachaf> It's all git's fault, putting version control on the blockchain.
15:15:39 <int-e> tbqh git is pretty good. mercurial too, though it rubs me the wrong way.
15:16:07 <Taneb> I'd recommend not rubbing anything mercury based on your skin
15:16:08 <b_jonas> the TFS isn't my attempt at using a good vcs though. I just want to enter the things I tracked in my local version control onto this abomination some people in the company use these days
15:16:16 <shachaf> git is OKish but there's lots of room for improvement.
15:16:19 <int-e> I believe that a lot of the problems that you will encounter are social, not technical.
15:16:44 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, but I need good tools to deal with those social problems
15:17:18 <int-e> b_jonas: if you call your fellow programmers tools that may be a problem (ignore me, sorry, simply couldn't resist)
15:18:14 <b_jonas> so I was again thinking of this stupid hypothetical version control system I want, and it's difficult. the best plan might be to hope that ais writes one.
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15:18:36 <b_jonas> so I was thinking of my fallback plan, which is still quite difficult
15:19:44 <int-e> I suspect the ideal version control system is comparable to Feather in terms of proximity to an actual implementation.
15:23:09 <shachaf> I don't need an ideal version control system.
15:23:29 <shachaf> There are some pretty clear problems with e.g. git that I'd like a system not to have.
15:24:52 <int-e> There are some pretty clear problems with pretty much anything that I'd like not to have.
15:24:54 <Taneb> It's name is a rather rude thing to call someone
15:27:48 <shachaf> Calling someone a git isn't required to use git.
15:28:05 <shachaf> Also it's only rude in UK English, I believe.
15:28:27 <Taneb> Which sadly is my native tongue
15:31:09 <int-e> . o O ( can you say "jolly unfortunate"? )
15:34:19 <int-e> `rot13 cha-cha-cha
15:34:57 <int-e> The puns they are a-dancing!
15:36:01 <Taneb> That's my ancestral tongue
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15:48:56 <zseri> I recently added a shell to my hierarchical database library (zp5sh) https://github.com/zserik/zsdbp5 (src/p5sh.cxx)
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16:45:05 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lenguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53849&oldid=53088 * Rottytooth * (+162)
16:45:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lenguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53850&oldid=53849 * Rottytooth * (+2)
16:47:35 <esowiki> [[User talk:Pietu1998]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53851 * Rottytooth * (+272) Created page with "Pietu1998: I'm a fan of your Lenguage, which I wrote about here: http://danieltemkin.com/Esolangs/Lenguage Would love to talk to you about it, my contact info is on my user pa..."
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18:58:39 <int-e> `unidecode 𝕥𝕖𝕤𝕥𝕚𝕟𝕘
18:58:40 <HackEgo> [U+1D565 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL T] [U+1D556 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL E] [U+1D564 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL S] [U+1D565 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL T] [U+1D55A MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL I] [U+1D55F MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL N] [U+1D558 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK SMALL G]
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19:01:11 <\oren\> why is there no fcrd() function
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20:25:49 <zzo38> I have partially figured out the file format of Hero Mesh.
20:26:38 <zzo38> Here is what I have so far: https://arin.ga/9rhslV
20:29:24 <zzo38> For some reason picture sizes are stored in the header, even though the picture sizes are always the same (they are 18, 24, and 32, always; it allows for up to eight picture sizes, but there are always only three).
20:32:55 <zzo38> Do you have any comment about this please?
20:34:57 <zzo38> After all of the file format is figure out then a free version of Hero Mesh can be made up, too.
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22:28:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53852 * Ais523 * (+1205) seeing this proof gives me an idea for a simpler, but less efficient, proof via TAFMl2
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00:39:59 <esowiki> [[Blub]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53853&oldid=40102 * Armok628 * (+5) /* External resources */ The translator is down, so I wrote a new script to link here
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07:48:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:BackFlip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53854&oldid=51645 * Zzo38 * (+119)
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07:55:50 <esowiki> [[Talk:BackFlip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53855&oldid=53854 * Zzo38 * (+82)
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09:40:55 <mac10holy> the battle continues for a free market in 2018!!!
09:40:56 <mac10holy> ladies and gents, I give to you the largest music exchange on the planet
09:41:16 <mac10holy> I've just returned from the future
09:41:25 <mac10holy> and boy I can tell you this shit is hot
09:41:33 <mac10holy> the largest music exchange on the planet and your finding out about it early on
09:41:51 <mac10holy> the south korea turmoil in regards to authorities shutting down crypto exchanges has caused a huge correction to happen for all cryptocurrencies on the market
09:42:10 <mac10holy> now is the time to strike as everything is on sale at a huge discount right now
09:42:13 <mac10holy> livecoin.net - best service, intuitive interface, trustworthy, secure
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11:02:11 <shachaf> int-e: don't you want to get in on the ground floor of this cryptopportunity
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11:17:50 <int-e> they lost me at "free market"
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11:20:28 <shachaf> you don't like freedom, huh
11:20:49 <int-e> I like personal freedom. Free markets, not so much.
11:21:01 <int-e> They tend to optimize for the wrong thing.
11:21:46 <shachaf> Hmm, I think markets are pretty good.
11:22:32 <int-e> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/dude-you-broke-the-future.html look for "paperclip maximizer"
11:23:26 <shachaf> Well, I think markets should be regulated and account for externalities.
11:23:43 <shachaf> And even then I don't think they're perfect. But they're often better than alternatives people come up with.
11:24:19 <int-e> Also, paraphrasing D.Adams, "This planet has, or rather had, a problem. Most of the people living on it were unhappy for most of the time. Many solutions were proposed for this problem, though most of them involved moving around little green pieces of paper, which is odd, because it wasn't the green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
11:24:48 * int-e is paraphrasing because he's too lazy to look up the literal quote.
11:26:51 <shachaf> Well, if you have that girl's solution, I'd be happy to hear it.
11:27:41 <int-e> Anyway, the whole keynote was quite good. But the part where he bashes Musk was the best to my mind.
11:31:05 <int-e> (I've linked to the video before: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-9270-dude_you_broke_the_future )
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12:05:47 <esowiki> [[Hexagony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53856&oldid=53544 * Martin Ender * (-3) /* Source code */ "centred" is not a typo, it's just BrE like the rest of the article.
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13:23:37 <fizzie> For anyone interested in them channel logs and/or wiki integration features, vote and/or propose what we could have: https://goo.gl/forms/L0DjJ2C2FpftJE572
13:37:23 <fizzie> It's about https://esolangs.org/logs/ (which I probably should've mentioned on the form itself, come to think of it).
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16:09:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DominoPivot * New user account
16:18:15 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53857&oldid=53798 * DominoPivot * (+249) /* Introductions */
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16:56:35 <int-e> Oh what happened to the idea of inviting Sigyn here?
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18:10:10 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53858 * DominoPivot * (+825) Language creation, basic idea.
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19:04:59 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53859&oldid=53858 * DominoPivot * (+1846) Numbers and strings + categories
19:06:22 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53860&oldid=53859 * DominoPivot * (+0) typos
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20:36:09 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53861&oldid=53860 * DominoPivot * (+1690) Switch to Python-comparisons and add sample programs
20:37:35 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53862&oldid=53861 * DominoPivot * (+0) /* Hello,_world! */ remove visible underscore from link
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22:51:24 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 2d 1h 56m 39s ago: why are mapoles measured in inHg and not mmHg tdnh
22:52:15 <boily> helloochaf. a mapole is supposed to be manifest to the painful English and French heritage it is the bastard of.
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22:57:56 <boily> grilf and I went through too many sushi ^^
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23:20:09 <quintopia> i went to the atlanta cask ale tasting to sample a billion beers
23:21:11 <boily> > (60 - 32) * 5 / 9
23:21:40 <boily> yay for tacos and a great day!
23:31:05 <quintopia> its time for shooting things in the face right?
23:32:13 <boily> in the face, in the body, in the legs, in the claptrap...
23:58:58 <boily> @tell oerjan hellœrjan. maybe this will earworm you: https://youtu.be/42l-Aj5F7Dw
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00:13:13 <HackEgo> 1/3:zed//Zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear. \ copyright//Copyright is the right of an upload or a copy to exists, that is is not to be terminated by the whim of the original. \ photograph//A photograph is a device for creating ph
00:13:15 <HackEgo> 2/3:otograms. \ usb3//USB3 hosts are packaged with a full independent implementation of the older USB/USB2, going through separate pins in the same socket. It is similar to DVI, except you need a separate passive converter stub to plug VGA monitor to DVI socket, but you don't need one to plug a USB client to an USB3 host. \ costume//Costumes ar
00:13:16 <HackEgo> 3/3:e used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
00:13:56 <boily> . o O ( I wonder if I'd look dashingly handsome in a Sailor Moon costume... )
00:15:30 <zzo38> Did you read my report about the Hero Mesh file format?
00:25:43 <boily> hezzo38. no I didn't. care to link again please?
00:26:10 <zzo38> boily: https://arin.ga/9rhslV (it isn't quite complete yet)
00:28:17 <boily> that's quite the deep format.
00:29:11 <boily> and you can buy it! http://www.kaser.com/mesh.html
00:30:49 <zzo38> I intend to figure out completely in order to write a free clone of Hero Mesh
00:30:57 <zzo38> That way, it can be used on Linux, too.
00:41:46 <zzo38> They only sell the version for Windows and Macintosh. If I write version for Linux then you can buy the Windows or Macintosh version and use the same puzzle set files (and then you can also use the user contributed files, without needing to buy them at all).
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01:03:01 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 4m 2s ago: hellœrjan. maybe this will earworm you: https://youtu.be/42l-Aj5F7Dw
01:03:16 <oerjan> boily: but but i got rid of the previous one D:
01:04:09 <zzo38> The picture sizes in a Hero Mesh file are always the same three sizes, but they are included in the header anyways (perhaps for compatibility purposes).
01:07:52 <oerjan> helloily. i find that unlikely to give me more than ringing hth
01:08:03 <oerjan> (which it already did)
01:09:05 <oerjan> well i _could_ be wrong.
01:09:26 <zzo38> Now I made up a program to extract pictures from a Hero Mesh puzzle set file. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/raw/mbff.c?name=f8b527ab8084f373abaf58c4fff6006607e8fefd
01:10:48 <oerjan> but for the most part, i find japanese music profoundly boring.
01:11:07 <oerjan> (well the one people have linked me here, anyway)
01:11:46 * oerjan wonders exactly what boily is screaming for.
01:13:33 <oerjan> suddenly half the additions to ais523's polyglot challenge are extension variations of haskell
01:14:00 <zzo38> boily: The hex code at the top is just the palette anyways; the actual program is below.
01:14:01 <oerjan> and one of the contributors is bribing the other to keep it from dying
01:15:31 <oerjan> zzo38: in this channel, one can never be sure if someone is programming directly in hex
01:16:12 <boily> maybe zzo38 is a witch...
01:16:12 <zzo38> oerjan: I suppose you may be correct, but it clearly says that it is the palette, isn't it?
01:16:34 <boily> it does specify it's the palette. it nicely filled my screen.
01:16:42 <boily> oerjan: what kind of bribe?
01:16:56 <oerjan> boily: stackexchange bounties
01:18:12 <oerjan> one of my old golf answers got 4 upvotes, must have been linked somewhere...
01:18:48 <oerjan> in fact i think that was my first
01:20:33 <oerjan> oh hm maybe it got nominated for the yearlies
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01:50:00 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HactarCE * New user account
01:53:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53863&oldid=53857 * HactarCE * (+218) /* Introductions */
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02:34:31 <\oren\> ROME IS MINE MUHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
02:37:26 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53864&oldid=53839 * DominoPivot * (+15) /* W */ Added wordless
02:39:17 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53865&oldid=53862 * DominoPivot * (+11) /* String literal */ Replace backtick with code tag.
02:40:41 <esowiki> [[Wordless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53866&oldid=53865 * DominoPivot * (-7) /* String literal */ Fix repeated words
02:50:05 <lambdabot> ENVA 210150Z 11006KT CAVOK M09/M13 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 14011KT
02:50:37 <lambdabot> EGBB 210220Z 17002KT 2400 BR OVC006 01/01 Q1013
02:50:45 <oerjan> \oren\: itym ROMA MEA EST MVAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
02:51:25 <lambdabot> CYUL 210233Z 28005KT 15SM BKN032 BKN050 02/M01 A2989 RMK SC5SC2 SLP125
02:51:31 <oerjan> ais523: the state of your polyglot is weird lately, one of the contributors is bribing another to keep it moving
02:51:47 <oerjan> also, the other one is posting only haskell extension variants
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02:52:34 <oerjan> istr zzo38 had a program that distinguished a heap of those
02:53:40 <ais523> oerjan: they sent me an email asking to be allowed to post twice in a row, I replied saying that it wasn't my decision any more as I'm diassociated from the post
02:53:47 <ais523> I was supportive, though, that was partly a concession to PPCG rules
02:55:06 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes I did have one. Let me to see if I could find, and then I will post it again on here
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02:57:43 <zzo38> https://arin.ga/nYyMwR
02:57:45 <oerjan> also i got a nomination for best of PPCG for my very first post
02:58:17 <ais523> add a language to a polyglot was one of my first posts
02:58:30 <ais523> [tag:answer-chaining] was basically the reason I joined PPCG
02:58:36 <ais523> that said, I'm a bit surprised the polyglot's been going this logn
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03:15:08 <esowiki> [[User:HactarCE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53867 * HactarCE * (+125) Created page with "Hi, I'm HactarCE! I'm the creator of [[Metatape]] and its [[https://github.com/HactarCE/Metatape|reference implementation]]."
03:15:29 * oerjan eats his last chocolate beans
03:15:35 <esowiki> [[User:HactarCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53868&oldid=53867 * HactarCE * (-2)
03:32:43 <boily> oerjan: will you buy more?
03:36:32 <ais523> oerjan: which post was that?
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04:08:35 <oerjan> @tell ais523 https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/111351/letter-number-symbol-space-repeat/111600#111600
04:17:36 <oerjan> int-e: apparently my pull request to lambdabot will never be merged. oh well.
04:20:00 * oerjan refuses to compile lambdabot himself.
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04:57:40 <oerjan> @tell ais523 Oh, I just realized (from adding a comment to an old post of eirs) that WheatWizard has also closed eir PPCG account. That'd explain part of why the polyglot is stalling...
04:59:38 <oerjan> @tell ais523 oh wait, i may be confused, e just renamed again... so e _is_ still the other contributor.
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06:20:14 <aeyxa> I hate c++ why am I trying to write my language in it :(
06:24:24 <oerjan> because you haven't learned haskell yet hth
06:26:13 <aeyxa> well you're not wrong
06:41:00 <zzo38> Still, C++ and Haskell is not the only possibility; you can also program in C.
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06:49:38 <aeyxa> I've never really tried C tbh, I probably should, though I'm not sure I would be alleviated from the issues I face from lack of understanding
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07:33:19 <\oren\> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/929299366840009843/8E95FE816E5967E528351895063622E2DB9CD8DE/
07:49:55 <oerjan> \oren\: that messages seems a little optimistic
07:50:53 <oerjan> with all those sunnis and tengris running around
07:52:31 <\oren\> oerjan: yeah, well a few more holy wars and I'll drive the muslims out of italia
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08:36:57 <\oren\> When basillissa Eirene first inherited, I wanted to skip over her and play as her uncle. but she's turned out to be the strongest character I've ever played
08:38:27 <Taneb> I should play more CK2
08:49:32 <\oren\> Taneb: yeah it's fun. they have a bunch of new expansions too
08:49:48 <\oren\> but some I turn off because they're annoying
09:16:18 <Taneb> \oren\, I have all the expansions, but I've been playing mostly EU4 lately
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10:30:36 <int-e> oerjan: if you complain about that next weekend you might actually earn some sympathy... right now I have no time whatsoever.
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17:54:57 <esowiki> [[Metatape]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53869 * HactarCE * (+7582) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Metatape |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:HactarCE]] |year=[[:Category:2017|2017]] |typesys= |memsys=cell-based |class=:Category:Turing complete..."
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18:02:05 <esowiki> [[Metatape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53870&oldid=53869 * HactarCE * (+0) Decapitalized headers
18:11:32 <esowiki> [[Metatape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53871&oldid=53870 * HactarCE * (+634)
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19:14:38 <esowiki> [[Metatape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53872&oldid=53871 * HactarCE * (-42) /* Instructions */
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21:10:13 <esowiki> [[ShadyAsFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53873&oldid=44696 * CatIsFluffy * (+34)
21:22:24 <zzo38> In order to make the Free Hero Mesh, I should try to avoid some of the problems in the commercial version, and it should have to be done in a way that it can remain compatible (a few really strange puzzles might no longer work, but they are ones that aren't supposed to work, I should think).
21:24:07 <zzo38> An example is I made up two puzzles which are not supposed to work, both using only standard pieces (while I have made up new pieces, these two puzzles don't use them). One depends on the game options: the puzzle is only solvable if the "popup explanation of death" option is disabled. Another depends on a bug in the game engine.
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21:30:42 <zzo38> One thing is to handle animation. When it isn't busy, animation can queue a MSG_LASTIMAGE event; it is executed immediately but the changes aren't made visible until the animation ends (unless the user disables animation). This handles destruction of Fire and turning a Blue Heart into a Red Heart, although code for Roller animation probably needs to be rewritten entirely.
21:33:08 <zzo38> Another thing is for object IDs to no longer be pointers; rather just serial numbers are used. This avoids the pseudorandom addresses that they are given, as well as avoids a potential security problem.
21:33:24 <zzo38> Finally, there is IgnoreKey(). I am not sure yet how this should be handled. Do you have any idea?
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00:16:58 <zzo38> Maybe the following is suitable for implementing IgnoreKey(): It is an error if any changes are made before it is called (although sounds are OK); afterward, only sounds, messages, pictures, and loss of game can be done, and such messages and pictures are marked as "visual only" to not affect the rest of the game. Pushing a key to clear the message therefore is not recorded in the move list.
00:18:27 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChristopherPeart * New user account
00:19:15 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53874&oldid=53863 * ChristopherPeart * (+144)
00:21:04 <boily> is there a modern way to trigger a bell on a remote machine?
00:21:22 <zzo38> On what remote machine?
00:21:50 <boily> well, if it'd happen on a quintopia machine it would be quite useful ^^
00:22:24 <esowiki> [[CHIQRSX9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53875&oldid=53683 * ChristopherPeart * (+194)
00:23:15 <boily> I don't need a physical bell, just something that fits the *BEEEEEEEEP* pattern with joyful decibels.
00:23:52 <zzo38> If they are terminal connected to you, a ASCII control code is doing, but, that is not the case, so there is no way to do so. It depend how they have it configured.
00:37:08 <boily> oh well. technology issues...
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04:23:10 <variable> idea: esolang that relies on CPU bugs
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05:33:31 <zzo38> Is CHIQRSX9+ supposed to be Turing-complete, or not Turing-complete but it has a command to make it Turing-complete?
05:34:10 <Taneb> The latter, I think
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05:56:05 <zzo38> Then the new implementation is wrong, isn't it?
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13:27:10 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53876&oldid=53681 * Flok * (+82) /* Optimizing implementations */
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21:34:00 <int-e> "Of course, if you have only two names, that's fine too." -- Donald *Ervin* Knuth
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21:49:00 <zzo38> What is Donald Knuth's middle name? [A] Allen [B] Kevin [C] Smith (it is a quiz I put into a computer game)
21:55:14 <Naergon> nostrodamus in me tells that this game will be not very popular
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22:00:52 <int-e> Slereah: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/435.html ?
22:01:21 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
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22:25:56 <zzo38> It is a Hero Heart puzzle, so when I port it to Linux then you can play game on Linux too. (Unlike how most people add Quizzes into Hero Heart puzzles, when I do, they are rarely proper questions; they are always tricks, whether with no correct answer (such as in this case), or some other kind of trick (such as the direction being wrong, regardless of how you answer), or a Quiz in the middle of nowhere that nevertheless has a use, etc)
22:37:17 <zzo38> Is there any similar stuff to Hero Mesh which is open source programs? Stuff I have seen isn't very good, for whatever reasons.
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23:40:50 <lambdabot> CYUL 222333Z 04019G30KT 1SM R06L/4000VP6000FT/U R06R/3500V5000FT/U -SN BLSN SCT007 OVC018 M07/M09 A3017 RMK SN2SF1SC5 SLP219
23:41:20 <boily> fungot: should I poutine tonight?
23:41:20 <fungot> boily: sometimes i wonder what that means, but my lines are not evaluating. once you're happy with my approach?
23:41:57 <boily> fungot: it's a mix of cheese curds, french fries and poutine sauce. I enjoy mine with chicken and green peas.
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00:27:35 <quintopia> @tell boily i totally forgot yesterday. and was probably too tired anyway. sry. how's 4?
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04:30:10 <esowiki> [[CHIQRSX9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53877&oldid=53875 * Oerjan * (-34) fix some errors
04:31:47 <esowiki> [[CHIQRSX9+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53878&oldid=53877 * Oerjan * (-1) /* External resources */ What is that * doing there
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07:26:22 <int-e> fungot: is there a law that forbids mentioning ice cream to robots?
07:26:22 <fungot> int-e: by the way, i can't remember for sure, space-efficient i don't know whether to kick agrajag to boot it too, as long as formatter expression are concerned?
07:29:45 <variable> tcsh looks dead: tracker, website, etc.
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08:22:13 <int-e> ^8ball will there be?
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10:01:11 <HackEgo> can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staff task vast
10:21:46 <oerjan> b_jonas: did you see DMM's list of words that rhyme with "loo"
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11:23:57 <fizzie> Sometimes with OCR'd books, you get this thing where they've scanned an entire two-page spread, and the lines have joined across the pages, and it's pretty amusing.
11:24:00 <fizzie> "Well, well, young man," said the thirty-six holes, with the secretary of secretary, "what is it that you wish? I un-agriculture this afternoon."
11:27:22 <b_jonas> fizzie: I haven't seen that yet with two pages.
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11:53:54 <oerjan> b_jonas: it was in the prisoner of monty hall section
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11:55:34 <b_jonas> oerjan: huh? but that's not even DMM's comic
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16:39:24 <oerjan> b_jonas: the forum section, not the comic itself (although the latest comic inspired it)
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18:27:46 <esowiki> [[Headache]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53879&oldid=50017 * LucasMW * (+104)
18:31:15 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53880 * LucasMW * (+1060) Created page with "The Headache programming language is a Turing Complete language for generating brainfuck programs. It borrows most of its syntax from C. Headache was designed to be the most..."
18:35:17 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53881&oldid=53880 * LucasMW * (+171)
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18:41:52 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53882&oldid=53881 * LucasMW * (+149)
18:50:28 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53883&oldid=53882 * LucasMW * (+48)
18:57:01 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53884&oldid=53883 * LucasMW * (+58)
18:58:17 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53885&oldid=53884 * LucasMW * (+7)
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19:02:20 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53886&oldid=53885 * LucasMW * (+296)
19:06:48 * Taneb is at a programming meetup talking about implementing a logic programming language
19:06:50 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53887&oldid=53886 * LucasMW * (+487)
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19:09:55 <esowiki> [[Headache (Lang that compiles to brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53888&oldid=53887 * LucasMW * (+36)
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19:24:26 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53889&oldid=46356 * LucasMW * (+758)
19:35:20 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53890&oldid=53876 * LucasMW * (+106)
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21:22:08 <quintopia> "lang that compiles to brainfuck" lol
21:22:41 <quintopia> we should add that to every lang on the wiki
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22:26:52 <myname> https://github.com/brain-lang/brain/
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23:40:54 <fungot> boily: puppies and fnord flowers and rainbows. that's what i know so much about something that seems subjective. but some of the best dynamic webdesign or anything... typing... compilation/ interpretation: would you do if you want to
23:40:57 <lambdabot> quintopia said 23h 13m 21s ago: i totally forgot yesterday. and was probably too tired anyway. sry. how's 4?
23:41:36 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA! no worries! for your punition, go binge on some AGDQ!
23:41:41 <boily> 4 sounds cromulent.
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00:16:48 <quintopia> boily: im about half done with the 2018 ones i wanted to see
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00:41:28 <fizzie> Aw. I was wondering how irssi's /upgrade (the thing that allows it to exec a new version of the binary without disconnecting) works for TLS connections, but apparently the answer is "it doesn't".
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09:39:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Noner Kao * New user account
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09:50:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53891&oldid=53874 * Noner Kao * (+387) /* Introductions */
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15:31:53 <HackEgo> r cooking spray. \ \ : Cook and beat until stiff peaks form. Heat oven to 350F. Pour over chicken and cut into cheese. \ Combine sugar, olive oil, salt. Bring to boil. Add remaining \ egg water, cocoa and egg whites. Spread lightly to coat chicken. \ Blend butter and set aside. \ \ 4. Sift together flour, baking soda and potatoes. Bring to
15:33:38 <b_jonas> Cooking spray? Is that like a screw loosening spray? You no longer need need an expensive set of screwdrivers and wrenches, just take this bottle of WD-40 to loosen the bolt and this bottle of glue to get it stuck.
15:34:10 <b_jonas> Cooking spray is probably the same, just spray it on the raw meat and you get a ready-made cooked meal.
15:34:19 <HackEgo> Gnarlwood Dryad \ G \ Creature -- Dryad Horror \ 1/1 \ Deathtouch \ Delirium -- Gnarlwood Dryad gets +2/+2 as long as there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard. \ EMN-U
15:34:22 <HackEgo> Grievous \ Captain Phasma \ Lor San Tekka \ Luke Skywalker
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17:54:37 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53892&oldid=53852 * Keymaker * (+1555) Reply.
17:55:51 <esowiki> [[The Amnesiac From Minsk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53893&oldid=45748 * Keymaker * (+0) Typo fix.
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23:02:14 <fungot> boily: it needs more work.
23:02:19 <boily> fungot: more nostril.
23:02:19 <fungot> boily: i have epiphany installed here too, i think
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23:08:04 <chal_> I asked this question on PPCG and the result was inconclusive: Consider a BF dialect with 2 different while loop types (let's call them <> and []) that function exactly the same but can be interleaved (you can have [{]}) but cannot be nested inside another loop of the same type (you cannot have [[]], [<[]>], <[>[<]>], etc). Is this TC?
23:08:30 <chal_> ^ sorry I typed [{]} but meant [<]>.
23:10:12 <boily> chal_: chello_. are those the only instructions, or do you have the other regular BF instructions?
23:11:20 <chal_> You have other instructions, of course.
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23:12:01 <chal_> If not, what is the minimum number of different loop types necessary? There must be a finite upper bound of whatever the BF self-interpreters have
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23:20:34 <alercah> my intuition is that you'd need arbitrarily many
23:20:42 <alercah> but I'm quite possibly wrong :)
23:21:16 <boily> isn't BF by itself already TC?
23:21:16 <chal_> No, you don't need arbitrarily many because there are BF self-interpreters that only need a finite amount
23:21:36 <chal_> Yes, but this is more restrictions: [[]] is banned
23:21:46 <chal_> You can do [<>], but not [<[]>]
23:21:59 <chal_> So at most you can only nest once
23:22:08 <alercah> I suspect you could do it with no nested loops
23:24:27 <chal_> Maybe you could translate BCT programs into BF with triply-nested loops
23:24:42 <chal_> Or rather doubly-nested.
23:24:49 <chal_> I still don't know about singly-nested
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23:25:30 <alercah> I don't think singly nested works; I think you need one loop to keep the thing going and one for conditionals
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23:28:00 <wob_jonas> chal_: I think we don't know how many levels of properly nested loops brainfuck needs to be Turing-complete. Your question is different though, because it allows improper nesting.
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23:29:48 <wob_jonas> The properly nested one is a question that I think comes up sometimes in the channel.
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03:30:08 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53894 * Noner Kao * (+160) Create personal page
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04:58:34 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53895&oldid=53894 * Noner Kao * (+9) /*Projects*/ Add reference
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06:53:18 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJYcZUR2OA
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12:18:46 <HackEgo> 1/2:at//At is a daemon for procrastinating commands. \ hmph//His Master's Phonetic Hmph \ hppavilion1//higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ trantor//Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. I
12:18:47 <HackEgo> 2/2:t is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ itidus20//itidus20's entry has been censored.
12:19:30 <boily> `` grep -FIi 'library' wisdom/*
12:19:32 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/8: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/biweekly: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the h
12:20:07 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f | xargs grep -FIi 'library'
12:20:08 <HackEgo> xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ grep: wisdom/6: No such file or directory \ grep: random: No such file or directory \ grep: numbers: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/¯(°_o)/¯: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/post-industrial: No such file or directory \ grep: se
12:20:22 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f | xargs grep -FIi library
12:20:24 <HackEgo> xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ grep: wisdom/6: No such file or directory \ grep: random: No such file or directory \ grep: numbers: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/¯(°_o)/¯: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/post-industrial: No such file or directory \ grep: se
12:20:29 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAARHGIEORGHEIROGHERIGOH.
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12:26:02 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -FIi library
12:26:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ wisdom/trantor:Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
12:26:43 <int-e> `` grep -rFIi library wisdom
12:26:44 <HackEgo> wisdom/coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ wisdom/trantor:Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
12:37:44 <b_jonas> boily: try find -exec instead of xargs
12:38:28 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type f -exec grep -hi library {} \;
12:38:52 <HackEgo> Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
12:39:00 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type f -exec grep -Hi library {} \;
12:39:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ wisdom/trantor:Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
12:39:50 <b_jonas> xargs is usually not worth the pain
12:40:01 <b_jonas> it's an obsolete ancient tool
12:40:03 <fizzie> I always just do `find -print0 | xargs -0 grep ...` because I can never remember the grep flag to print file names.
12:40:38 <fizzie> (Also doesn't find -exec run it separately for each file?)
12:41:22 <fizzie> Maybe doesn't matter for grep so much, but I'm sure I remember at least one case where the process start-up cost was relevant.
12:41:48 <fizzie> (Oh, I see int-e did the -0 already.)
12:44:33 <fizzie> Looks like at least GNU find has a workaround for that, though:
12:44:34 <fizzie> `` find wisdom -type f -exec grep -i library '{}' +
12:44:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ wisdom/trantor:Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
12:44:55 <fizzie> Also avoids having to remember the grep flags. Unfortunately, I'd have to remember the workaround then.
12:45:45 <fizzie> ("This variant of the -exec action runs the specified command on the selected files, but the command line is built by appending each selected file name at the end; the total number of invocations of the command will be much less than the number of matched files.")
12:46:16 <fizzie> (Huh, in POSIX find as well.)
12:46:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: this is why I have a short --help message in my cgrep program, which mentions only some of the options, not all the ones it has
14:42:12 <int-e> 1. introduce variables for the number of pies in each shop at the beginning. 2. turn the two given constraints into linear equations. 3. solve.
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20:44:31 <wob_jonas> am I blind, or does this fricking news article not show the date anywhere? http://www.ferencvaros.hu/index0.php?name=hir_170226_malenkij_robot
20:44:57 <wob_jonas> I'm used to news articles hiding the date in hard to see places, but I can't find the date ANYWHERE in that one
20:48:50 <wob_jonas> that's what the date should be, but I don't see it anywhere
20:48:52 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it's right under Emlékmű-avatás Ferencvárosban
20:49:15 <int-e> wob_jonas: at the top
20:49:38 <wob_jonas> I don't see the title either. must be some css problem
20:50:09 <\oren\> "2017. február 26. | Kommunizmus Áldozatainak Emléknapja, dr. Bácskai János, dr. Vas Imre, Málenkij Robot, emlékmű, átadás, Ferencvárosi vasútállomás, Balog Zoltán, EMMI, Rétvári Bence, Párkányi Raab Péter, Gulág, Szalay-Bobrovniczky Alexandra, Eötvös Péter, Berghoffer Róbert, túlélő "
20:50:39 <wob_jonas> that's not even in the HTML source
20:52:48 <wob_jonas> ok, what happens if you go to http://www.ferencvaros.hu/index0_search.php?search_term=m%C3%A1lenkij+robot and click on the dashed underlined "Málenkij Robot" link? I get a version of the page, same url, that doesn't have the title
20:53:17 <wob_jonas> and with the search terms highlighted
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21:12:07 <int-e> wob_jonas: fancy. and it's not a referrer hack either
21:13:14 <int-e> or maybe I did it wrong
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21:16:32 <int-e> actually no, links misled me, it *is* a referrer hack
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21:46:24 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAjbz8Hdvo4
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22:40:24 <HackEgo> rring occasionally. Divide to covered until golden brown. Remove from \ the heat to low and add to the cornstarch to the egg has cooking. Ladle the flour, \ peas, combine the tomatoes, water, and pepper in a large bowl. \ Add the bay the potatoes, and bran in bowl. Cook, then \ stiring well. Add beans in a weight keeps to set aside. Cover fryer
22:40:27 <HackEgo> Madcap Experiment \ 3R \ Sorcery \ Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an artifact card. Put that card onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. Madcap Experiment deals damage to you equal to the number of cards revealed this way. \ KLD-R
22:40:32 <HackEgo> 1107) <Sgeo> I have kill rights on someone I want to sell
22:41:09 <wob_jonas> hehe, "Remove from the heat to low". Typical fungot style markov-chaining.
22:41:10 <fungot> wob_jonas: it's just one command line would be a pair of parentheses has a very complete mzscheme binding, right?
22:41:25 <HackEgo> 1137) <Sgeo> I don't like having an infinitely large close button on my browser \ 964) <zzo38> If you cannot type, then you should learn to type if you want to operate your computer
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22:42:28 <int-e> I thought that worked
22:42:35 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
22:42:57 <HackEgo> 419) <itidus20> Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. <itidus20> Nash failed to create a "video game theory"
22:43:04 <int-e> (that's a ridiculously nice wc output)
22:44:57 <HackEgo> wc -l share/Complaints.mp3
22:45:09 <shachaf> That was nicer back when the complaints file was called "complaints".
22:45:33 <HackEgo> 3649:2013-09-05 <Rouj̈o> mv complaints bin \ 3650:2013-09-05 <Rouj̈o> mv bin/complaints bin/complain \ 3665:2013-09-06 <shachäf> echo \'wc -l complaints\' > bin/complaints; chmod +x bin/complaints \ 5453:2015-06-07 <zzo3̈8> `` echo \'wc -l Complaints\' > bin/complaints; chmod +x bin/complain; chmod +x bin/complaints \ 6339:2015-11-28 <oerjän
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23:13:28 <wob_jonas> "Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games." => yeah. for analyzing video games, you need impostor sociology as in https://www.xkcd.com/451/
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23:30:33 <Sgeo> `cat bin/random-card
23:30:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' -- "$1"
23:30:44 <Sgeo> How often is allsets.txt updated?
23:31:29 <Sgeo> `grep Orazca share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:31:34 <boily> `` tail -n1 share/mtg/allsets.txt
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23:35:09 <Sgeo> `grep Counterspell share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:35:54 <wob_jonas> Sgeo: it's downloaded from https://yawgatog.com/resources/ and only decompressed from the zip, no change
23:36:10 <HackEgo> Counterspell \ UU \ Instant \ Counter target spell. \ A-U, B-U, U-U, RV-U, 4E-U, IA-C, 5E-C, TE-C, 6E-C, S99-U, MM-C, S00-C, 7E-C, EMA-C, MPS_AKH-S, VMA-C, DD2-C, ME2-U, ME4-C
23:36:21 <HackEgo> Disappearing Act \ 1UU \ Instant \ As an additional cost to cast Disappearing Act, return a permanent you control to its owner's hand. \ Counter target spell. \ KLD-U
23:37:16 <Sgeo> `random-card Orazca
23:37:17 <HackEgo> Spires of Orazca \ Land \ (Transforms from Thaumatic Compass.) \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {T}: Untap target attacking creature an opponent controls and remove it from combat. \ [Back face. Transforms into Thaumatic Compass.] \ XLN-R
23:37:44 <Sgeo> `random-card RIX
23:37:44 <HackEgo> Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace \ Land \ {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. \ {1}{B}{R}, {T}: Each player discards a card. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery. \ DIS-U
23:37:54 <wob_jonas> If you want a more easy to use interface for searching M:tG cards, then I recommend https://scryfall.com/advanced or http://magiccards.info/search.html
23:38:28 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 22 Oct 4 11:36 share/mtg/allsets.txt -> allsets-2017-09-20.txt
23:39:48 <wob_jonas> if you want to update it to Rise of Ixalan, just download the latest file from yawgatog, unzip it, put it to share/mtg/ and make allsets.txt a link to it
23:40:09 <wob_jonas> I'm lazy to do that right now, sorry
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02:00:56 <HackEgo> 1/2:oasys//You are next to an oasis, with high dunes of sand surrounding it. You are likely to be eaten by a camel. \ palate//Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink. \ b_jonas//b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. \ cuisine//Cuisine is the posh cousin of cooking.
02:00:58 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ just//Just is just a just adverb.
02:02:14 <shachaf> `` \? "$(grWp -lP '(is|are) just' | shuf -n1)"
02:11:24 <boily> private transient volatile static final Wind WIND;
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02:32:30 <fizzie> `` find wisdom -type f -exec grep -h ' is just ' '{}' + > /tmp/just; /usr/bin/paste -d' ' <(shuf -n 5 /tmp/just | sed -e 's/ is just .*//') <(yes 'is just' | head -n 5) <(shuf -n 5 /tmp/just | sed -e 's/.* is just //')
02:32:31 <HackEgo> Frozen water is just an epimorphism in the opposite category. \ jargon is just a small thin skeletal category. \ The 1 is just a store comonad coalgebra. \ Equal temperament is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons. \ Codensity is just a classical watch extended with a certain amount of mustard in the mechanism.
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04:45:11 <esowiki> [[Brainwang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53896&oldid=53282 * Challenger5 * (+35)
04:47:05 <esowiki> [[K-on Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53897&oldid=43914 * Challenger5 * (+36) Added category
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08:09:59 <zzo38> I thought of a way to make a simple kind of database file where it has fixed size pages, and then each record has a 32-bit number as the key, and then the index specifies which page each record by key begins on and they then either link to the next page or to give the length of the remaining data on this page if it is the last one. Maybe there is already such a thing I don't know
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08:23:04 <oerjan> there isn't really any common part to those
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08:35:20 <zzo38> Do you know the answer of my question?
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08:51:38 <HackEgo> `5//`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1, `4 and `spam. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
08:53:17 * oerjan noted some painful non-use of `grwp in the logs the other day
08:54:04 <int-e> all I saw was a painful misuse of find/xargs :P
08:54:32 <int-e> the fact that it was the wisdom subdirectory didn't really register with me.
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08:54:56 <fungot> int-e: i have a good tutorial on continuations?
08:55:16 <int-e> fungot: please continue...
08:55:17 <fungot> int-e: i don't see why you want c's switch, but it's just another argument to the result
08:55:48 <int-e> fungot: let's not have this argument now
08:55:48 <fungot> int-e: there's some of the loops in your compiler. i'll just
08:55:55 <fungot> int-e: so you might look into enhancing the type analysis.
08:56:14 <int-e> oh I fell out of its good graces :(
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09:06:05 <oerjan> fungot: your continuations are too delimited tdnh
09:06:06 <fungot> oerjan: xor linking is bad. if you had such semimutable pairs, you can either specifically state variable location or let the compiler tell me how to dial " ci`r`.!`.d`.l`.r`.o`.w`. `.,`.o`.l`.l`.e`.h`c``sc``sc``sc`ki prints hello, world!
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10:01:29 <oerjan> gil seems to be looking better lately
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12:55:31 <int-e> it's true, he seems to finally be getting some sleep
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15:30:21 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2018-D21.esosc
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15:41:04 <mroman> (and http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2018-D20.esosc of course)
15:52:38 <int-e> "tell me how to dial " ci`r`.!`.d`.l`.r`.o`.w`. `.,`.o`.l`.l`.e`.h`c``sc``sc``sc`ki" is brilliant
15:55:18 <b_jonas> inr-e: um... shouldn't that start with a backtick or something?
15:55:49 <int-e> missing two backticks, I guess.
15:55:50 <fungot> b_jonas: toki pona was created by plt scheme, what do you mean? :p. ugh i need to figure out how
15:56:27 <int-e> but indeed, the brilliant part is that it came from fungot
15:56:28 <fungot> int-e: even riastradh couldn't convince me to become a good programmer if you can't see anything in swindle pertaining to an ffi...
15:57:01 <int-e> (also, if Unlambda took a slice from INTERCAL, " would mean ``)
15:57:39 <int-e> (the INTERCAL thing is that ! is a '. ligature, IIRC)
15:57:56 <b_jonas> um.... no, a double quote doesn't mean two backticks in intercal. it's like in python or perl or ruby, a double quote is just another kind of single quote, you have to use one or the other paired with itself
15:58:10 <b_jonas> oh, the ! ligature. right, I forgot that one.
15:58:35 <b_jonas> although I think it was supposed to be an overstruck apostrophe and dot on the punch card originally, not a true exclamation mark
16:04:12 <mroman> Is nortti still alive?
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17:00:24 <HackEgo> dth//dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
17:02:03 <mroman> How's the traffic on the blsq shell?
17:02:45 -!- sleffy has joined.
17:08:05 <int-e> (I have no access logs)
17:08:22 <int-e> (maybe I should have some? hmm)
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17:12:20 <int-e> I'm curious though, so I have access logs starting from now.
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18:43:17 <mroman> @tell nortti you still alive?
18:44:07 <int-e> mroman: I has logs now.
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18:44:41 <int-e> with *one* access to the burlesque shell (myself, testing the logs)
19:07:21 <zzo38> Many telephones and other stuff with similar keypads will use that telephone system to enter text, such as having to push more than once the same number, etc. An alternative would be to use a system based on punched card codes; push 0 and 2 together to make "S", for example.
19:11:22 -!- nortti has joined.
19:11:40 <nortti> hm, how did the bot work
19:12:17 <nortti> mroman: yeah, I just drifted elsewhere on IRC and left this place after I no longer really followed the conversations here
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19:13:20 <mroman> zzo38: and that would be significantly easier?
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19:13:32 <mroman> and how do you write this on the keypad so newbies know what to press?
19:20:52 <zzo38> mroman: Well, it would be faster; the existing system is too slow.
19:24:02 <zzo38> If you have the bottom row keys "-" and "0" and "&" then the "1" key could be marked "J/A" to indicate which letters would be typed by those combinations.
19:25:16 <zzo38> (You still need separate buttons for space, backspace, send, etc)
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19:27:53 <mroman> also you'd need more than one finger.
19:28:08 -!- nortti has left ("Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky. —The creation of Éa").
19:29:24 <zzo38> Yes, but still I think it is faster; I have tried such experiment and it seems faster to me.
19:37:28 <mroman> I'll get back to you once you have a peer-reviewed study about keypads :D
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19:48:01 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose, it will help. Unfortunately, I have no such thing.
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19:58:45 <int-e> I'm so glad I have this access log now. "HEAD /phpmyadmin/scripts/setup.php HTTP/1.0"
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19:59:33 <int-e> (I guess that is kind of boring)
19:59:57 <mroman> zzo38: you could write an esosc draft for such a keypad.
20:01:08 <int-e> meh I need a channel to offload all the funny requests that anyone who's running a http server probably knows already
20:01:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
20:01:44 <zzo38> mroman: What is esosc draft, and how to write such thing?
20:02:08 <int-e> mroman: anyway, see logs (see topic)
20:04:14 <zzo38> I got the request "SSH-2.0-Go" on my HTTP server. (The same address sent a proper HTTP request two minutes later.)
20:04:19 <mroman> It's a semi-serious semi-legit esoteric totally invented standards body
20:04:35 <HackEgo> esosc is esoteric song contest (also Esoteric Standard Committee)
20:05:04 <mroman> But hey! We have two approved standards!
20:05:29 <int-e> for example, I didn't know that there is a DuckDuckGo-Favicons-Bot
20:06:59 <zzo38> (I also got a IRC command on the HTTP server. The same address made a proper HTTP request a few seconds later. A few seconds before the IRC command was a request consisting of binary data.)
20:07:44 <int-e> makes sense. people run all sorts of services on port 80
20:07:55 <int-e> because that's the one that most firewalls don't filter
20:09:03 <int-e> (this applies to port 443 as well, I guess)
20:09:08 <mroman> The original idea was to fight the poor quality of esowiki articles and focus on quality specs rather than quantity.
20:09:14 <zzo38> I suppose it can work, since the commands are going to be different; you could easily have HTTP, IRC, and gopher, all together on the same port. Still I would put them on different ports
20:09:37 <int-e> not necessarily all on the same host :P
20:10:52 <mroman> As in esosc specs would have had some reasonable quality requirements for esolang specs.
20:12:01 <mroman> Contrary to esowiki articles
20:12:05 <zzo38> mroman: OK. But is a keypad such a thing?
20:14:07 <mroman> If it's esoteric and related to computer science it probably fits.
20:15:22 <mroman> Not that esosc has any legal validity or support from any industry 😅
20:17:09 <mroman> It's just for fun mostly
20:19:16 <mroman> http://esosc.mroman.ch/ESOSC-2014-A1.TXT
20:19:35 <mroman> It says 'esolang related works' tho
20:20:11 <mroman> Not sure if esoteric human-computer interfaces count as related.
20:22:22 <zzo38> But according to that document, I am apparently not allowed to write esosc drafts?
20:22:27 <Taneb> What are we asking me?
20:22:51 <mroman> You can submit drafts.
20:23:30 <mroman> Well 'proposal' but a proposal is just a draft.
20:23:48 <Taneb> mroman, I think a proposal is a pre-draft
20:24:36 <Taneb> It doen't get a number until one of us officially submits it
20:25:01 <mroman> Hm. Well the idea is that people can 'draft' stuff submit it as a proposal then it becomes an official draft?
20:25:13 <Taneb> Something like that
20:26:51 <zzo38> There seem another thing, since there is many members, you will have to agree what EUIN number to use, otherwise it will conflict. It can be avoided by assigning each member a block of numbers to use for their own drafts. (There are a few other things I also don't like about EUIN, but that is different)
20:27:16 <mroman> Obviously the idea wasn't to exclude people but to ensure better quality
20:28:06 <mroman> Numbers are usually just monotonically increasing?
20:28:37 <mroman> Yep, says so in the A1
20:29:35 <mroman> 23 would be the next free number currently
20:30:36 <mroman> 22 is referenced from 21.
20:30:58 <mroman> Also you can apply to become member of course.
20:32:44 <mroman> If you start a draft it becomes an upcoming draft
20:33:30 <mroman> If it has reached almost ready to be submitted it becomes a working draft.
20:34:12 <mroman> So you just allocate a number by making it an upcomming draft.
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20:39:04 <mroman> What else do you not like abou EUIN?
20:40:47 <zzo38> A different format would be: It has three or four parts with - in between. First part is "ESOSC". Second part is AD year number. Third part is a document number, which is any number in the submitter's block unique per year, and the fourth part is optional and is the version number. If the version number is omitted then it is an alias for the latest approved version. You need not change EUINs for status changes.
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20:44:40 <mroman_> well I guess we can add that to A1
20:44:50 <mroman_> that no revision number -> latest version
20:45:37 <mroman_> if there's a reference like `See ESOSC-2014-A3` and then you make a revision
20:45:41 <zzo38> It already says revision numbers shall be avoided for approved standards
20:45:41 <mroman_> then the old reference would be invalid
20:46:05 <zzo38> I am just saying that revision numbers are optional rather than prohibited for approved standards.
20:46:16 <zzo38> Documents that require a specific referense should always include version numbers.
20:46:54 <zzo38> (Or maybe I misunderstood the document; I don't know)
20:47:19 <mroman_> I think it was intended to be able to create revisions of approved standards
20:47:56 <mroman_> > A new revision of an approved standard is put into the draft state and requires the usual approval process taking place.
20:48:00 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: error: parse error on input ‘of’
20:48:20 <zzo38> O, yes, it says that.
20:49:02 <mroman_> can't really remember what the criteria for Revision vs obsoletion was :D
20:49:08 <mroman_> maybe we didn't even think this far.
20:49:51 <mroman_> or maybe it was meant for updates?
20:50:28 <mroman_> like you have a language, then later decide to extend it with a useful new feature
20:51:28 <mroman_> O is basically for "don't use this anymore"
20:52:30 <mroman_> I think that 'shall' is a typo
20:53:49 <mroman_> also maybe it should be that ESOSC-XXXX-AY refers to the latest version
20:53:58 <mroman_> and ESOSC-XXXX-AY-R1 refers to the newest version
20:54:10 <mroman_> ESOSC-XXXX-AY-R2 to the second.
20:55:16 <mroman_> but good feedback. We probably should clarify a few things in A1
20:55:22 <mroman_> also whether to round 2/3 upwards or downwards :D
20:55:51 <mroman_> if there are 4 members do you need 2 votes or 3 votes?
20:56:12 <mroman_> or rounded to the nearest number.
20:56:52 <zzo38> Similar to (although the letters "A" and "R" are omitted, and omitting the number is an alias (not the canonical code) for the latest accepted version; not necessarily the latest version). It omits the status since if it does, you need to update the number when it is made obsolete. One thing that can be done is an optional fifth part, which is the status; if omitted, it refers to the same document anyways.
20:57:32 <mroman_> I'd also ditch the year actually
20:57:35 <mroman_> the year isn't really useful imo
20:58:13 <mroman_> and it's not the year of the latest revision
20:58:16 <mroman_> but the year of first issue :D
20:58:24 <mroman_> so it doesn't even tell you how old this really is.
20:59:00 <zzo38> I think it is useful, if using the submitter block numbers I mention. If each block has 366 numbers, then each member can submit up to 366 new drafts per year.
21:00:18 <mroman_> you'd start at zero again in 2018?
21:02:05 <zzo38> That is just an example; the block size can be different.
21:02:39 <mroman_> numbers don't really need to mean anything to humans anyway :D
21:02:50 <mroman_> humans will refer to it using the title.
21:04:05 <zzo38> Which numbers the submitter uses is their own choice and need not be in order, but it does have to belong to the submitter's block and be unique, and the version numbers have to be monotonic, and year numbers should be correct.
21:05:43 <zzo38> But yes, you can generally refer to it using the title. Still it helps to have the numbers; my own recommendation is to not use aliases when refering to a specific document (aliases are more useful when you refer to a specific programming language or whatever, rather than to a document).
21:07:04 <mroman_> so you'd have 2018-1-1-DRAFT
21:07:18 <mroman_> which is revision 1 of '1' and it's in DRAFT Status.
21:08:30 <mroman_> although the last part could be optional yes
21:08:34 <zzo38> Yes, like that. (Although the final "-D" is optional; if omitted, it is guaranteed to refer to the same document. It is put there only for convenience to those who see the number to know if it is a draft)
21:08:38 <mroman_> otherwise you have to update everything.
21:08:48 <mroman_> if you reference ESOSC-2014-A33 and it becomes ESOSC-2014-O33
21:08:55 <mroman_> then the reference ESOSC-2014-A33 would look weird.
21:10:00 <zzo38> Yes, that is why I say, it is optional.
21:14:43 <zzo38> The document ESOSC-2014-A1 also includes a non-ASCII character. My recommendation is that it is recommended (not required; there are valid reasons to use non-ASCII characters) that documents use only ASCII characters.
21:18:31 <mroman_> there's a non-ascii character?
21:19:23 <mroman_> probably a non-printable one?
21:21:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ESOSC': not found
21:21:08 <zzo38> One line says "standard to ensure uniqueness. The EUIN doesn<E2><80><99>t change except for the prefix"
21:21:52 <zzo38> It includes the non-ASCII character <E2><80><99>.
21:23:14 <int-e> `unidecode doesn’t
21:23:15 <HackEgo> [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T]
21:24:14 <int-e> firefox treats ' and ’ as the same in its search, wtf.
21:25:28 <zzo38> int-e: I think that is reasonable in case-insensitive mode. In case-sensitive mode they should not be treated the same.
21:26:36 <zzo38> (Still, you should be allowed to customize it even in case-insensitive mode, I think)
21:26:37 <int-e> zzo38: you're right, switching on "Match Case" makes a difference
21:48:36 <mroman_> do we need to add a paragraph about patents and liability and shit :D?
21:48:52 <mroman_> I'm starting to think that such a document certainly has some 'legal stuff' to it.
21:49:02 <mroman_> since this probably constitutes an 'organization' of some sort.
21:51:42 <zzo38> Maybe. Add the specification that it is patent-free (which means either it isn't patented, the patent has expired, or it is unrevocably licensed for anyone to use for any reason in any circumstances).
21:52:46 <mroman_> I mean... we can't guarantee that standards we write aren't patented by someone else
21:53:19 <zzo38> Yes, I know, it is not guarantee. But, it is at least the intention to be patent-free
21:57:41 <zzo38> Another idea is to have full members and half members. A half member is assigned a block of document numbers and may submit drafts but can't approve new members or new documents, and are not counted when considering two thirds, and only one full member needs to approve of a new half member; to become a full member the usual rules must apply to approve them.
21:58:42 <mroman_> actually we could say that the ESOSC *merely* validates the quality of stuff
21:58:46 <mroman_> but doesn't really endorse anything
21:59:03 <zzo38> Yes, OK, say that.
22:01:36 <int-e> ESOSC DOES NOT ENDORSE LEGAL SHIT.
22:01:41 <int-e> (EXPRESS OR IMPLIED)
22:04:11 <int-e> (ESOSC standards aim to be patent nonsense, but not patented nonsense.)
22:05:25 <int-e> . o O ( `learn Patents are patent nonsense with disproportionate legal ramifications. )
22:08:04 <zzo38> I think also it should say: For a new member to become a full member, in addition to a 2/3 vote, the new member must also agree to be a full member; if he does not agree then he is a half member instead.
22:08:48 <zzo38> (This avoids a problem with having new members who are not going to vote who is a new member.)
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22:30:04 <mroman_> http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-1-2.esosc
22:30:08 <mroman_> I guess that should do the trick.
22:30:26 <mroman_> Makes it pretty clear that we're not a serious organization :D
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22:34:53 <mroman_> hm. also if you change the rules
22:35:01 <mroman_> member should have to re-confirm their member status
22:35:04 <mroman_> they might want to leave the esosc.
22:35:26 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb).
22:37:04 <mroman_> nah. just state that one can leave at any point obviously.
22:40:48 <zzo38> What does a "P" suffix mean?
22:41:46 <zzo38> Other than that it looks good to me.
22:43:06 <mroman_> Can you @tell multiple persons?
22:43:25 <mroman_> @tell mroman_, lambdabot Waddup?
22:44:14 <mroman_> @tell Taneb please have a look at http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-1-2.esosc and let me know what you think of it.
22:44:26 <mroman_> @tell nortti please have a look at http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-1-2.esosc and let me know what you think of it.
22:44:58 <mroman_> aw crap now the psychiatrist line is gone.
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23:16:41 <HackEgo> olist 1111: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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23:47:39 <Sgeo_> Why am I suddenly interested in Pokemon TCG?
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23:51:08 <HackEgo> Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
23:51:49 <HackEgo> 2079:2013-02-09 <Tanëb> learn sgeolang currently is either J or Io. \ 5581:2015-06-15 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/ei\\|or/n&/g\' wisdom/sgeolang \ 5586:2015-06-16 <oerjän> learn Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM. \ 8088:2016-05-20 <oerjän> learn Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
00:03:50 <shachaf> are you sure sgeolang isn't Pokemon TCG twh
00:13:28 <fizzie> shachaf: I added some Prometheus metrics for the esowiki bot.
00:14:04 <fizzie> No, it would've felt a bit too much like exposing yourself.
00:14:13 <fizzie> They're not very exciting metrics, anyway.
00:14:17 <shachaf> I saw a server that exposed a Prometheus endpoint on purpose.
00:14:17 <fizzie> You're not missing much.
00:14:24 <shachaf> I was a bit surprised but it probably isn't that bad?
00:15:01 <fizzie> I think that could be reasonable? I've opted for just TLS and basic auth via the nginx that's already there for the wiki, though.
00:15:18 <shachaf> if i'm not missing much then why are you telling me twh
00:16:08 <shachaf> maybe you should add a monarch thing instead hth
00:17:09 <fizzie> Maybe our SRE team should take over from me twrh
00:17:47 <fizzie> I fiddled together a silly homegrown config push system (not just for the wiki, for everything) too.
00:19:50 <fizzie> It's got a git repository with the untouched Debian dist files in one branch and the current edited ones in another, so whenever apt asks me that impossible "which one of these two incorrect files you want?" question, I can just copy the new dist file in the dist branch and merge from there to master.
00:21:14 <shachaf> you gotta use the secret "merge these two files together into something reasonable" option
00:21:20 <shachaf> isn't that why google is working on ai hth
00:22:34 <fizzie> I think that's a lot easier when the third file's there as well.
00:23:59 <fizzie> Also I added a ridiculously overengineered skeleton for the "static" part of stalker mode (i.e., the page that just contains N most recent messages).
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03:06:46 <esowiki> [[Focus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53898&oldid=53206 * HereToAnnoy * (+15) minor edits to a bad language
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04:13:58 <zzo38> By use of my "mbff" program, I can determine that apparently the order that new Hero Defiant pieces were added is: blue Directional Blocks, Lasers, Lava, Mirrors, pieces being gradually damaged by Lasers, Floor Switch, Smiley, another wall, Pushers, more walls, another field, Block Spacer, red Directional Blocks, Pullers, more walls, Rotators, another wall, Non-Diagonal Fields, ...
04:15:54 <zzo38> ... auto-reverse Rotators, another Lava animation frame, another Field (and corresponding non-diagonal version), Lava expanding by dropping Rocks in, Bridges extending over Lava (and getting damaged in the process), Sliding Doors, another Smiley animation frame, Gift Box, Lava bubble animations, Water Balloon, Green Heart, animation tracing the path of Green Heart, ...
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04:16:43 <zzo38> ... Bomb, Fire Wood, Fuse (which was never implemented), Grenade, Joystick, Match, Missile, Shield, Quiz, Stealth Potion, different numbers of Stealth Potions, stealthy Smiley.
04:21:37 <zzo38> (It is only the guess)
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06:25:01 <zzo38> How to prevent webpage document scripts from scrolling the document?
06:27:27 <zzo38> Nevermind I figured out.
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06:30:00 <zzo38> ProProfs does not allow you to scroll for some reason (and it doesn't work at all if scripting is disabled). This is fixed by a simple GreaseMonkey script: "use strict"; delete unsafeWindow.Element.prototype.scrollTop;
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07:03:06 <aeyxa> hahah what the hell is that pdf
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08:09:53 <zzo38> I read about the liar chess game. Before each move, you may rewrite one of your previous moves; if you do, the entire sequence must still be a valid FIDE game with proper notation.
08:11:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Riking * New user account
08:13:06 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53899&oldid=53891 * Riking * (+218) /* Introductions */
08:14:30 <Hooloovo0> wow, liars chess sounds like a ridiculously complicated game
08:21:11 <esowiki> [[AWO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53900&oldid=49041 * Riking * (-35) I don't see how this is a BF equivalent
08:22:07 <esowiki> [[ASCII art-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53901&oldid=43011 * Riking * (+35) Added Category:Brainfuck equivalents
08:22:58 <esowiki> [[ASCII art]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53902&oldid=15375 * Riking * (-1) Changed from BF equivalent to derivative - this uses an innovative program writing method
08:23:51 <esowiki> [[ASCII art]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53903&oldid=53902 * Riking * (+1) typo: forgot s on category name
08:26:01 <esowiki> [[BFFB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53904&oldid=40346 * Riking * (+12) refine categorization to BF equivalent
08:32:47 <aeyxa> you mean like, you make 1 move, then they make a move, then you want to remake your first move, it must be valid in the current scenario and the previous one?
08:35:04 <Hooloovo0> so no extraneous checks, and whatnot
08:37:19 <zzo38> aeyxa: Yes, I think so. (There is many other restrictions that also result from this, as far as I can tell, such as, if you played a4 and opponent played Rxa4, you can't change your move to b4 because then Rxa4 is not a proper move (it says it is a capture, but there is nothing to capture), and you can't change it to make another move ambiguous, or remove the ambiguity, etc)
08:40:59 <aeyxa> just made me think that even a rule like "each player can make two moves x many times per game" can completely change things
08:41:16 <aeyxa> because you have to always wonder if this is the move they'll move twice, lol
08:48:39 <zzo38> One such game (but more restrictive than that) is: Once per game you can make two moves with the same piece. The first move cannot be a promotion nor give check, but you may move into check on your first move if you remove the check by the end of your turn.
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10:17:25 <esowiki> [[ASCII art]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53905&oldid=53903 * Oerjan * (+0) Still equivalent IMO
10:20:05 <int-e> fungot: what is the big question?
10:20:05 <fungot> int-e: i'm grading quizzes and chipping away at my respect for shivers just shot up a few too many ones just earlier. but is there a way to
10:20:37 <int-e> fungot: respect for shivers, got it. but you didn't finish the question...
10:20:37 <fungot> int-e: i see a command in the most idiomatically schemely way" often to be able to tinker at the repl.
10:21:11 <HackEgo> 503) <itidus20> indirect addressing is a facile and inebrious kind of instruction which should be whomped away by languages \ 413) <elliott> in the title of the page it says "Well-Typed - The Haskell Consultants" but i want to know who are the haskell conraisins?
10:39:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nsultan: not found
10:40:35 <int-e> Hmm, raisin' cons...
10:49:32 <mroman> A consultant is a person too scared of doing things by themselves and thus instructs other people to do it for them.
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14:35:30 <mroman> maybe we should use markdown for esosc
15:24:05 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troff
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15:41:55 <int-e> wait, the burlesque shell comes with a style.css?
15:44:28 <int-e> I guess it's not really needed.
15:51:19 <mroman> yeh but it's not needed :D
15:52:19 <mroman> it's needed if you want syntax highlighting.
15:52:43 <mroman> it outputs <span class="int">6</span> etc.
15:52:57 <mroman> but it's not really required for the functionality of the shell, no.
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16:18:17 <int-e> fungot: what do you think of extreme modelling?
16:18:17 <fungot> int-e: the key value is the empty list
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17:38:12 <mroman_> Is there an encoding similar to base64 but that leaves ascii intact?
17:39:07 <ais523> if ASCII encodes to itself, and thus decodes to itself, you need to use non-ASCII characters to encode everything else
17:39:42 <mroman_> no I mean like... base64 isn't human readable anymore
17:39:49 <mroman_> there's urlencode for example
17:39:56 <mroman_> but then you have a % for each non-asci char
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19:32:17 <mroman> fungot: name the symptoms of Meig's syndrome.
19:32:18 <fungot> mroman: non-goth addict? :p. ugh i need to update the value
19:32:56 <fungot> mroman: my fine friends... friendship should occur naturally. the exp taylor series converges fast. learning an emacs command to reverse a brainfuck program
19:33:39 <mroman> fungot: you're a smart fungus aren't ya?
19:33:39 <fungot> mroman: the developer is ready, and the destructuring on that list takes a month to agree upon then... somehow you can claim it is the way to other languages
19:34:10 <int-e> fungot: do you want to be funge?
19:34:10 <fungot> int-e: hm well, can't you?
19:34:30 <ais523> Keymaker has helped me to understand the difference between TAFM levels 1 and 2
19:34:31 <mroman> Did you guys improve fungot's speech?
19:34:31 <fungot> mroman: how about ( f y x
19:34:41 <ais523> suppose your fundamental operations on counters are increment, decrement, check
19:34:55 <ais523> level 1 groups these as (increment), (check and decrement if nonzero)
19:35:06 <ais523> whereas level 2 groups these as (increment), (decrement then check for zero)
19:35:12 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Amnesiac_From_Minsk
19:35:42 <ais523> it's rapidly becoming the best language for proving TCness, I think
19:36:53 <ais523> arguably Bitwise Cyclic Tag still holds that title, but the two are useful in different contexts so they make good complements to each other
19:37:07 <ais523> I think TAFM is pretty universal, though, because pretty much any language that can store data can count things
19:37:13 <ais523> (challenge: write a language that can't!)
19:37:31 <ais523> and the reason it beats out minsky machines is that the control flow is much simpler
19:42:13 <mroman> A language that can't count?
19:42:58 <APic> Have the Minsky-Machines been classified by Marvin Minksy?
19:43:49 <int-e> . o O ( SKI *obviosuly* can't count. :-P )
19:44:56 <ais523> I just looked it up, apparently Minsky formalized that particular version of counter machine
19:45:10 <ais523> and yes, Marvin Minsky
19:45:14 <int-e> (The trouble is that we accept that TC-ness implies that we can implement recursive functions on natural numbers, so we have /some/ representation of natural numbers which we can use to count. We don't mind all that much that those representations often look very artificial.)
19:46:21 <ais523> yes, clearly a TC language is capable of counting somehow
19:46:30 <ais523> I'm thinking more in terms of low-level representation and/or sub-TC languages
19:47:30 <APic> Good old MIT-Pioneers. 😎
19:48:00 <int-e> And it's unclear where to draw the line. I mean, even DFAs can count a bit.
19:48:41 <ais523> counting seems to me to be the most fundamental way of storing data
19:48:50 <ais523> because if you have any data stored at all, that implies that some amount is stored
19:48:58 <ais523> and counting is if you just care about the amount and disregard the actual data
19:49:53 <int-e> So... https://esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9%2B ... does the inclusion of + mean that it can count?
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19:51:09 * int-e should finish his recursive functions in Minsky machines formalization. Hmm.
19:51:36 <ais523> int-e: it's arguable what HQ9+ is doing at all, seeing as it has no control flow
19:51:56 <ais523> can + be said to be counting if you could simply work out the final value of the accumulator by counting the +s in the program at compile time?
19:52:15 <ais523> I guess HQ9+ can be seen as a special case of a finite state machine which only has one state
19:52:15 <int-e> the thing is, I can still argue both sides
19:52:26 <int-e> even though I totally agree that this isn't even a programming language.
19:52:36 <mroman> What about a language with inc and jmp?
19:52:39 <ais523> yes, the best assessment of HQ9+ is that it isn't a programming language
19:52:50 <mroman> But no conditional jumps
19:53:55 <int-e> mroman: it depends... might be fun if the increment can overflow into the program counter ;-)
19:55:06 <int-e> (this is inspired by, but different from, the infinite loop in the "Story of Mel")
19:55:29 <ais523> it's entirely possible to have a programming language with no conditional jumps, but data needs to be able to have some effect on something
19:55:31 <ais523> even if it's just other data
19:56:10 <mroman> What if jmp jumps to code[counter/2] if counter is even and code[counter*2] if it is odd.
19:57:31 <ais523> the even/odd differentiation there doesn't even really help
19:57:54 <ais523> that sort of approach is a finite state machine if the addresses don't wrap, or they wrap round the code in the conventional manner
19:58:28 <ais523> you could do something like jumping to the fractional part of the square root of the counter, though (as a proportion into the program), that at least has infinite storage although I'm not convinced you can access it
19:59:07 <mroman> Your program would have to be a fractional
19:59:54 <mroman> One where you can zoom into the space between two instructions and get new instructions somehow?
20:01:17 <ais523> you just run forwards until reaching the next valid instruction
20:01:23 <mroman> Didn't i create a language where space is allocated by increasing values in cells.
20:03:07 <int-e> ais523: That idea is a bit trajical ;-).
20:03:08 <zzo38> Possibly, the amount of increment of instruction pointer will be the rational number, then you can execute instructions between any instructions by get the new instruction but I don't know which get new instruction it is.
20:04:02 <mroman> Aren't there 1D fractionals?
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20:04:51 <int-e> There are things like Cantor sets.
20:05:13 <mroman> Or any bounded function could work
20:05:38 <ais523> cantor sets could be interesting
20:05:58 <mroman> The program is a function f(eip) = instruction
20:06:13 <ais523> your counters could be in ternary, and your operations could be "increment" and "contains a 1 digit?"
20:06:40 <mroman> I.e. sin(x) and you'd map -1,0,1 to specific instructions
20:07:15 <mroman> And eip is a real number
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20:13:50 <esowiki> [[Talk:Nil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53906&oldid=50354 * Ais523 * (+374) /* Dead link */ new section
20:15:16 <int-e> It would be an RPC, a *real* program counter.
20:16:51 * int-e mutters about UI design
20:18:08 <int-e> this dialog has a button in the lower right corner... usually these things are stuff like Ok/Cancel/Close that get rid of the windo in one way or another... this one is a Help button.
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20:42:24 <mroman> Intel uses esoteric instruction pointer (eip)
20:43:24 <int-e> unfortunately I know that the e is for "extended".
20:43:57 <int-e> However the r in rip eludes me, I suspect it's just "register".
20:45:39 <ais523> int-e: yes, "register"
20:46:07 <ais523> after r9 and friends were added, AMD decided to use the same prefix for the original registers too to show that it was the 64-bit verison
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21:24:28 <mroman> Is the prevalence of obesity in prison wards elevated?
21:24:54 <mroman> I'm watching this undercover in jail documentary
21:26:11 <mroman> And so far it seems that a surprising amount of wards and inmates are obese...
21:26:49 <int-e> I don't know but it's easy to come up with an explanation.
21:27:40 <int-e> first google hit, not the most reliable source: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4429407/prison-obesity-fears-inmates-overweight-lags/
21:33:49 <int-e> anyway, it looks like people believe that this is a problem and are investigating, but there isn't enough data yet to be conclusive (never mind actually identifying causes)
21:34:56 <mroman> Maybe it's just the prevalence of obesity in the US
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21:35:33 <int-e> (there is some redundancy in the title)
21:35:39 <mroman> also it feels like here in EU foreigners are more obese for some reason
21:37:14 <int-e> mroman: theories: - food quality (and amount; one abstract I just read suggested that women may be becoming obese in prison simply because they receive the same amount of food as males); lack of exercise; prison trauma (which food helps getting over)
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21:39:40 <mroman> Prevalence of obesity in foreigners is in fact higher according to statistics.
21:41:12 <int-e> (one factor that I haven't seen discussed is whether prevalence of obesity in criminals differs from the general population (let's say before first incarceration))
21:42:02 <mroman> Diabetes is twice as prevalent in foreigners than locals.
21:42:20 <mroman> Yeah. Maybe it just mimicks the general prevalence.
21:43:26 <mroman> What's the prevalence of obesity by country
21:44:20 <mroman> I know it's highest for island tribes
21:44:43 <mroman> They seem to not be used to modern western food
21:47:43 <mroman> Also how many of them are on psych meds
21:48:03 <mroman> They are notorious for weight gain
21:52:48 <lambdabot> -269653970229347386159395778618353710042696546841345985910145121736599013708...
21:53:19 <oerjan> that does look a bit arbitrary
21:53:59 <lambdabot> -269653970229347386159395778618353710042696546841345985910145121736599013708...
21:54:21 <int-e> > floor(0/0) == -3 * 2^1023
21:54:49 <int-e> (it *is* arbitrary to some degree... NaNs have many representations)
21:55:39 <int-e> floor (0/0) < floor (-1/0)
21:55:42 <int-e> > floor (0/0) < floor (-1/0)
21:56:02 <int-e> below minus infinity
21:56:32 <int-e> > (-1/0) < fromIntegral (floor (-1/0))
21:56:55 <lambdabot> -179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805...
21:56:57 <Taneb> My instinct is that floor(0/0) should be an error
21:57:19 <mroman> > ceiling(-1/0) == ceiling (-2/0)
21:57:36 <int-e> Taneb: it's been a point of contention in the Haskell community :P
21:57:50 <mroman> This might be useful for golfing.
21:58:19 <Taneb> int-e, I think I remember it being discussed somewhere a couple of months ago
21:59:06 <lambdabot> error: Data constructor not in scope: NaNerror:
21:59:06 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope: Infinity
21:59:06 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant variable ‘infinity’ (imported from Data.Number.Natural)
22:00:27 <int-e> The whole Num hierarchy isn't exactly loved; in fact I think we can get to agree a majority of Haskell folks that it is awful. But I think the same folks will never agree on a better successor.
22:00:58 <int-e> hmm, something word order with went wrong there
22:01:26 <mroman> Numbers aren't real anyway. They were invented by psychiatrists.
22:01:40 <HackEgo> yoda:Yoda object-verb dialogue adopts.
22:02:24 <int-e> Okay, I might agree that numbers are imaginary friends. :P
22:03:02 <int-e> But you're really giving psychiatrists too much credit.
22:03:14 <HackEgo> Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
22:03:23 <mroman> fungot: are you an imaginary friend?
22:03:23 <fungot> mroman: maybe the w is flipped actually
22:03:37 <int-e> ^8ball are we all imaginary friends?
22:03:50 <int-e> ^8ball are you always this negative?
22:03:59 <mroman> fungot: could you pass a turing test?
22:04:00 <fungot> mroman: the specifiers aren't really that funny, you're not a schweinpenis," you are assumed to have some kind of command, do so
22:04:22 <int-e> wtf, where did it learn that wordf
22:04:32 * boily thwacks the fungot
22:04:33 <fungot> boily: not good either.
22:04:56 * int-e ruffles boily's feathers
22:05:14 <int-e> (or FEATHERS? the CHICKEN tends to be ALL CAPS)
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22:07:26 <int-e> In other news I really like the Catch-22 nature of Puidgemont's situation right now. Heller, and possibly also Kafka, would have been proud.
22:08:36 <Taneb> I need to finish reading Catch-22
22:15:58 <Slereah> Is there a circumstance that makes it so that you can't read catch-22 without having read it first
22:25:41 <ais523> <oerjan> > floor(0/0) ← now I'm curious as to whether that number is finitely or infinitely long
22:26:17 <ais523> I guess finitely long? it seems bizarre to know what the /first/ digit of NaN is
22:27:16 <int-e> I think I answered that question
22:27:18 <int-e> > floor(0/0) == -3 * 2^1023
22:28:46 <oerjan> > ceiling(0/0) == floor(0/0)
22:30:27 <oerjan> ais523: people have started making simplified versions of your levenquine challenge
22:30:33 <int-e> > ceiling (0/0 :: Float) == ceiling (0/0 :: Double)
22:30:51 <oerjan> (which remains unanswered)
22:31:03 <ais523> the original is definitely doable, the problem is golfing it at the same time
22:32:30 <int-e> so... not possible in brainfuck?
22:32:58 <oerjan> brainfuck might be a _teeny_ bit hard.
22:34:00 <int-e> actually this seems to rule out quite a few programming languages... hrm
22:34:01 <oerjan> seeing as all members of the chain need to use . even the simplified versions won't work.
22:35:03 <oerjan> int-e: i _think_ it is possible in haskell, but it requires some sneaky syntax loopholes.
22:35:27 <zzo38> I want to make the database program I mentioned before. Public domain, uses fixed page sizes, with an index using 32-bit numbers as the key to specify which record you want (a record may itself be an index for a "subdirectory", and the keys need not be consecutive; it can be "sparse"). But, I should need to know what to call it. Do you know?
22:35:38 <int-e> ugh, really? I mean ... how do you avoid main= ?
22:35:48 <oerjan> int-e: it doesn't require a full progrma
22:36:09 <oerjan> a function is permitted
22:39:12 <int-e> I guess one of the simplified challenges is to make a quine pair with disjoint character sets?
22:39:38 <int-e> (I made up the term "quine pair", feel free to let me know if there's an established term...)
22:39:54 <oerjan> yep. "mutually exclusive quines" is the name of that
22:40:11 <oerjan> well, the one invented for the challenge
22:41:41 <oerjan> and there's an intermediate challenge which both fit in, where the goal is to minimize the maximal levenshtein distance
22:42:39 <int-e> hrm, wouldn't that just be won by an ordinary quine?
22:42:52 <oerjan> int-e: no, you still need two disjoint ones
22:44:45 <oerjan> a distance of 2 may be a lot easier than 1, because it allows you to quickly move quote marks
22:50:56 <oerjan> on a first look, the challenge doesn't allow you to edit inside comments, which makes those hard to use.
22:53:57 <oerjan> on a second look, there's a ridiculous possible loophole in that
22:55:02 <oerjan> on a third look, that loophole gets somewhat ruined because it requires having a specific character available.
22:58:15 <oerjan> the loophole isn't needed though, and if used to its full extent would almost certainly be considered a new way of cheating... but it takes this specific kind of challenge to make it useful.
22:58:54 <zzo38> I want to make the database program I mentioned before. Public domain, uses fixed page sizes, with an index using 32-bit numbers as the key to specify which record you want (a record may itself be an index for a "subdirectory", and the keys need not be consecutive; it can be "sparse"). But, I should need to know what to call it. Do you know?
22:59:22 * oerjan all mysterious and handwavy hth hth
22:59:33 <oerjan> oops forgot the script ignores /me
22:59:41 <zzo38> (It doesn't actually use a sparse file; pages are allocated only for existing keys though, and free pages if gaps are made by deletion and they haven't been filled up yet)
23:10:22 <int-e> oerjan: hah, does rot13 count as a programming language ;-)
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23:13:45 <zseri> zzo38: Is there a documentation?
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23:18:16 <oerjan> int-e: not by PPCG standards
23:18:18 <zzo38> zseri: No. (When I write them, then it will be, though.)
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23:22:24 <oerjan> int-e: that also arguably breaks the PPCG quine rules
23:22:44 <zzo38> I would need to figure out what to name in order to write them, but, I don't know, do you have the idea about it?
23:23:10 <oerjan> although it's a bit fishy how to apply them, it's clear that the a only encodes itself after a cycle
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23:55:09 <zseri> https://gist.github.com/zserik/fbfdc6ccf4e61e5dfa9a26804c35c0d9
00:07:11 <int-e> @tell oerjan well, dc is capable of a disjoint quine pair at least: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/foo.dc
00:10:42 <zzo38> I can describe what ideas I had for file format though: The header includes a link to the first page of the root index, a link to the first free page, and the log2 of the page size. Each page begins with a indicator byte, and then a 32-bit number which is either a link to the next page or the length of the remaining data on this page, whether it is the last page.
00:11:56 <zzo38> The index then consists of eight bytes per entry, being the key and link, for each. The indicator byte specifies whether or not this index is sorted.
00:14:15 <int-e> okay, *now* that quine pair is actually disjoint... I missed that there's an 'i' in '/bin'.
00:14:52 <zzo38> Yes, but, do you have idea how such a format can be called?
00:15:19 <zseri> zzo38: what does the database if an entry doesn't fit in one page?
00:16:53 <zzo38> zseri: Continue on multiple pages. One bit of the indicator byte specifies whether or not it is the last page of the entry.
00:17:14 <zseri> ok. Name: I don't know. zpxdbase?
00:18:32 <zzo38> OK, but how do you come up with such a name, where is the letter from? Is it an abbreviation which can be expanded into full words?
00:18:39 <zzo38> But, yes, I can use that.
00:19:29 <zseri> Z Paged indeX Data Base (pxdbase is already used as a name)
00:21:48 <zseri> I think that a page with a "next-page-link" should also have the ability to contain more data.
00:23:26 <zzo38> In such a case the rest of the page is filled with the data (after the five byte header of that page; all pages other than the global header page have the same five byte header)
00:24:04 <zzo38> Or is there some other thing not understanding perhaps?
00:26:14 <zseri> ok, that in such a case the length is implicit equal to ({page size} - 5 bytes)
00:28:35 <zseri> I think the maximum page size is 2^33, because if it's larger, a 32bit length wouldn't be enough
00:30:18 <zseri> The header could contain a indicator byte which contains flags like 'are the lengths and links 32bit or 64bit uints'
00:31:02 <zzo38> Yes, it is; although, yes that is another idea too. Even if I do not implement it in the first version, the next version might, maybe. Thank you for the suggestions, at least.
00:42:32 <zseri> Question: Does one index entry occupy 8 bytes and key and link use 4 bytes each or does one index entry occupy 16 bytes and key and link use 8 bytes each?
00:42:47 <zzo38> The key and link use 4 bytes each.
00:46:18 <zseri> Thus 2^32 - 1 keys are allowed and thus the maximum file size should be (10 + 32 * (8 + 2^33))
00:46:52 <zseri> 10 for header; 8 * 32 for index; 32 * 2^33 for pages
00:48:15 <zseri> or, when the index is saved in the pages; then (10 + 32 * 2^33)
00:52:05 <zseri> Does this match? https://gist.github.com/zserik/2d65d7025ae1d6a66454a657a3bbf2c9
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01:02:54 <zseri> I don't know if there should be an option to split the file into multiple parts; It would also be cool to have a tool to defrag the database.
01:04:21 <zseri> In the development of zsdbp5 I tried multiple designs and found that it could be complex and memory-intensive to save large content or to defragment content
01:05:02 <zseri> There should be a flag to indicate if a page is used or not.
01:11:33 <zseri> What functions should the database have? (get @key, set @key, for each @key, insert as subentry @key, ...)
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01:13:38 <zseri> Is the key some sort of hash or a free-form 4 character string?
01:22:08 <zseri> Should there be some sort of reference count per entry/content?
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02:12:58 <zzo38> I did intend to add the ability to defrag the database, yes. And yes there is a flag (it is part of the indicator byte, which also indicates whether it is index or data) if the page is used or not. There is only one reference to each page, so no reference count is needed. The key is just an arbitrary 32-bit number; you can use for whatever purpose you want.
02:14:00 <zzo38> (If you defragment it then pages can be put together that are part of the same data. This can be a separate program to do this, perhaps.)
02:16:08 <zzo38> "Subdirectories" are possible (although not always used); you can use this if you want longer keys, although the intention of this is mainly for when you do not need longer keys, it is at least an option.
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03:15:00 <esowiki> [[Memescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53909&oldid=53908 * MD XF * (+30)
03:15:40 <esowiki> [[Memescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53910&oldid=53909 * MD XF * (+2)
03:16:18 <esowiki> [[Memescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53911&oldid=53910 * MD XF * (-6)
03:17:17 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * MD XF * uploaded "[[File:Meme.jpg]]"
03:17:31 <esowiki> [[Memescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53913&oldid=53911 * MD XF * (-172)
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04:23:02 <Sgeo_> pikhq, how obsessed with viagra should a cat be?
04:29:22 <izabera> what about old cats that can't get an erection
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08:48:55 <zseri> zzo38: I think there could be a problem. Defrag will be overly complex, because there isn't an index for the mapping content_id -> link; That makes it complex to find the beginning of each entry/content
08:52:17 <zseri> Also, why is the key in the original concept of constant length 4 bytes, which isn't enough to held something more useful, but would likely fit in 8 bytes, like a hash snippet or a 64bit ID
08:58:45 <zseri> ok, specification updated https://gist.github.com/zserik/2d65d7025ae1d6a66454a657a3bbf2c9
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09:42:57 <lambdabot> int-e said 9h 35m 46s ago: well, dc is capable of a disjoint quine pair at least: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/foo.dc
10:13:59 <int-e> it's an ugly challenge... the most likely target for me to get it to work would be x86 machine code (DOS .com file)
10:14:17 <int-e> simply because that has plenty of aliases and full inspection of the running code
10:18:54 <int-e> and of course the quine rules consider that approach to be cheating
10:19:05 <int-e> (at a cursory glance)
10:19:43 <oerjan> int-e: i'm still working on a haskell version hth
10:19:50 <int-e> (not really sure... what's the "source code" when you produce machine code directly?)
10:20:16 <int-e> oerjan: I'd rather keep my sanity ;-)
10:20:38 <oerjan> well it's much saner than the full levenquine challenge
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10:25:54 <oerjan> and yeah reading the code is forbidden, although there are a bunch of quine answers that skirt around that in languages (like javascript) that include code in the printed version of functions.
10:26:11 <int-e> but at least the pair has a sort of generic approach: 1. find a way to print an arbitrary string using as few as possible, as rare as possible, characters in the language's character set. 2) write a quine and code that generates type a 1) program from the resulting string.
10:26:50 <oerjan> hm that _does_ fit my haskell approach.
10:27:21 <oerjan> although i am trying to let (1) also handle some of the duplication.
10:27:25 <int-e> (it fits my dc approach as well; I found the loophole that A and B can be used as binary digits to encode sufficiently arbitrary numbers)
10:27:57 <int-e> (I then snuck a 'p' in there, because dc also has 'n', to save some work)
10:29:36 <oerjan> dc is more compact for this, at least.
10:29:50 <int-e> and I resorted to invoking an external program because I don't think that dc can print P from a program that doesn't contain a literal P.
10:29:57 <oerjan> there are a couple of answers to the challenge on PPCG already.
10:30:17 <oerjan> one in an esolang, the other in forth
10:34:47 <mroman> also what's a disjoint quine pair?
10:34:56 <int-e> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/153948/mutually-exclusive-quines
10:35:00 <mroman> A outputs B and B outputs A?
10:36:30 * int-e has a dc solution at http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/foo.dc
10:37:06 <int-e> at 1059 combined size, mm
10:38:22 <int-e> But I won't join stackexchange. I would have to give up another distraction for that, like IRC.
10:42:02 <oerjan> mroman: then look at https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/116189/cyclic-levenquine hth
10:42:22 <oerjan> (ais523 made that challenge. no one has managed to answer it yet.)
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11:11:15 <mroman> Can I invent permutation quines :D
11:11:33 <mroman> A program must output a permutation of its source code
11:11:46 <mroman> and then that permutation must output a new permutation of its source code
11:12:02 <mroman> it's over once it doesn't output a permutation or a permutation it already produced
11:12:31 <mroman> the winner is the one who can produce the longest sequence of such cycles
11:13:28 <mroman> although I suspect you can do that by adding useless chunk characters to something.
11:13:48 <oerjan> if you have arbitrary length, seems pretty trivial to make as long as you wish
11:14:17 <mroman> you could just have a long variable name
11:14:21 <mroman> and use the regular quine approach
11:14:33 <mroman> put then output a random permutation as the new variable name
11:14:56 <mroman> yep, this isn't too difficult.
11:15:04 <int-e> or just embed a string constant that you modify
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11:19:37 <oerjan> > (\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))("(\\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))",[1,2,3])
11:19:39 <lambdabot> (\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))("(\\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init ...
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11:25:11 <HackEgo> rdococ//rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
11:26:21 <oerjan> > (\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))("(\\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))",[1,2,3])
11:26:22 <aeyxa> I went to go write some unit tests for my lexer
11:26:24 <lambdabot> (\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init t))("(\\(s,t)->var$s++show(s,last t:init ...
11:26:40 <oerjan> sadly gets cut off just before the permuted part
11:26:49 <aeyxa> wasted 3 hours making this instead https://pastebin.com/raw/uHgsv6Fr
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11:38:20 <mroman> Programs that are quines and are still quines when gzipped
11:48:44 <mroman> Brainfuckprograms that ouput the number of cycles they took to terminate.
11:49:25 <mroman> That should be fairly trivial though
11:50:06 <int-e> yeah. you can always pad with >< and >
11:50:15 <mroman> Finding the shortest BF program that outputs the number of cycles it takes to complete.
11:50:29 <mroman> That oughta be more challenging.
11:50:51 <mroman> (As ascii digits of course)
11:51:40 <int-e> how many cycles do [-], +[-], and ++[-] take to complete? (it's not entirely clear how to count the [])
11:53:50 <int-e> @bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..
11:55:18 <mroman> ++[-] would be ++ [ -]-] so 7?
11:55:33 <mroman> The first [ counts and each ]
11:56:05 <mroman> The ] jumps past the [ so the [ doesn't count then
11:56:22 <int-e> it's a possibility. when I implemented this, one of the [ or ] would be an unconditional jump to its counterpart
11:56:57 <int-e> (cycle counting tends to expose implementation details)
11:58:15 <mroman> The first [ counts because it checks whether to jump forward
11:58:50 <mroman> But the ] checks and jumps to the instruction after it's matching [
11:59:25 <mroman> So the [ isn't 'executed' then
12:03:03 <mroman> [ is a jiz and ] a jnz
12:04:45 <mroman> Or a jiz and ] is a jmp to the jiz but that's less efficient
12:05:07 <int-e> or the [ is a jmp and the ] is a jnz
12:05:49 <int-e> and then you have a tiny overhead per loop rather than per loop iteration
12:07:11 <mroman> Are you saying there needs to be a standardized cycle count?
12:08:04 <mroman> That would've been a legit case for ESOSC :(
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12:09:48 <mroman_> Then you could have defined different ways of cycle counting and assign them names for easier communications.
12:10:00 <mroman_> and then you could better compare cycle counts from different programs :D
12:10:45 <oerjan> i'm having trouble testing my mutual quine because something downgrades character 160 to an ordinary space. :(
12:10:50 <mroman_> if ] jumps back to [ and you count [ too then ++[-] would be ++[-][-] so 8 cycles.
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12:12:05 <mroman_> how dous bfjoust count cycles?
12:14:33 <int-e> I think it counts the way you suggested
12:15:56 <int-e> so [ is counted when the loop is entered or skipped; ] is counted each time the loop body completes
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12:20:39 <wob_jonas> oerjan: re https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/153948/6691 I think I can make a simple perl answer for that, although I won't try to golf it too heavily
12:23:38 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I'll just have the second program contain the entire first one but with the high bit turned on. that needs very few characters, the printing is the only tricky part, it can turn on the high bits with like ^'ÇÇÇÇÇÇÇÇÇÇÇ' only imagine literal \x80s there
12:23:59 <wob_jonas> if I make it a subroutine like sub{} then I won't even need printing
12:24:43 <wob_jonas> the other can have any quine logic and print logic and then set high bits with y/\x00-\xff/\x01-\xff/ for 0..255
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12:30:43 <wob_jonas> I may have to use q-quoting in the second one though
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12:41:27 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53914&oldid=53895 * Noner Kao * (+29) /* Projects */ rename the new language
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13:05:07 <wob_jonas> darn, that doesn't work. I need different kind of quoting.
13:05:44 <wob_jonas> I might need sub{"ÇÇÇÇÇ...ÇÇ"^<<""}
13:10:02 <wob_jonas> it would be nicely readable if I could just use xor-space encoding, but that can't work because I need curlies in one half and square brackets in the other side
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14:39:08 <HackEgo> [U+00C7 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA]
14:39:43 <HackEgo> [U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G]
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14:41:54 <wob_jonas> ok, I think I figured out how to do it, although it will be very ungolfed.
14:54:22 <mroman> Why can't you nest () in bfjoust?
14:55:10 <mroman> Expanding to +++--+++--+++--+++--?
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15:59:17 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoku]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53915 * Noner Kao * (+3789) Update some contents
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16:16:18 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53916&oldid=53517 * Camto * (+32) Basically a turing machine
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16:37:20 <mroman> Romans weren't to fond of NaNs?
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16:45:46 <wob_jonas> oerjan: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/154259/6691
16:46:33 <wob_jonas> @tell oerjan https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/153948/mutually-exclusive-quines/154259#154259
16:46:42 <wob_jonas> mroman: I wrote fromroman and toroman
16:46:54 <wob_jonas> mroman: the code is based on an old golf solution I wrote
16:47:17 <wob_jonas> mroman: it's not broken, but it only works for valid inputs
16:47:42 <wob_jonas> toroman only works for integers from 1 to 4999 inclusive
16:48:00 <wob_jonas> and fromroman only works for the single valid roman number encoding of those numbers
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16:48:21 <wob_jonas> for any other input, the result is undefined
16:48:35 <wob_jonas> but it won't erase your files or anything
16:48:57 <wob_jonas> just print garbage in the case of toroman, and likely print nothing in the case of fromroman with some exceptions
16:49:49 <wob_jonas> there's no error handling, which is a bug. if you want to fix it, feel free.
16:50:32 <int-e> see, there ain't no such thing
16:51:49 <int-e> . o O ( `` cd wisdom; ln -s feature bug; ln -s bug feature )
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17:08:34 <mroman> Probably results in an error when accessing it
17:09:58 <int-e> Kein grober Unfug, sondern feiner Fug?
17:10:51 <mroman> Jemand der nicht Unfug betreib treibt Fug.
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17:12:17 <mroman> `learn Fug is the opposite of Unfug (german: un-fug).
17:12:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'fug': Fug is the opposite of Unfug (german: un-fug).
17:13:10 <mroman> Also there's the verb befugen
17:13:33 <mroman> Somebody who's befugt has the right to do Fug.
17:14:30 <mroman> I have a list of fake german words
17:14:51 <HackEgo> Unknown option: g \ Unknown option: e \ Unknown option: r \ Unknown option: m \ Unknown option: a \ Unknown option: n
17:14:59 <mroman> Behüten means to put a hat on top of something.
17:15:01 <HackEgo> foedarbermigereale reibezifizir vnikel schenwaffenherz schlacasquertum her neoiretanbräumlan wahlungsprozenen schengendtag gers hegaturskörper stischischart kalkapple nathornbli glyphorquan ant bares abbachveren ngentfchc brechtwebegrat
17:15:30 <wob_jonas> mroman: "crown" means that in english, because english has a word for everything
17:15:44 <mroman> Verhüten is the act of ruining something with hats.
17:16:08 * int-e was going to suggest that "FUG" could be the "Funge Users Group"
17:17:25 <mroman> Usually it's used in sexual contexts when hats ruin sex.
17:18:06 <mroman> Abhüten means to take your hat off.
17:18:32 <wob_jonas> mroman: is that a cognate of abdicate
17:18:53 <mroman> They aren't actual german words.
17:19:41 <wob_jonas> how about lifting your hat as a gesture of respect?
17:20:28 <mroman> Versagen means to say something wrong.
17:20:59 <wob_jonas> mroman: do you have entire fake german sentences too?
17:21:38 <int-e> . o O ( "Ich bin ein Berliner" is a famous one :P )
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17:29:40 <mroman> Ich bin ein Berliner means you're a sweet lump of bread cowered in powdered sugar and filled with marmelade.
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17:46:59 <int-e> Now what if Kennedy had given such a speech in Vienna...
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19:02:34 <mroman__> http://cheap.int-e.eu/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=fancy%0D%0A++def+main%3A%0D%0A++++5%0D%0A++end%0D%0Aend
19:02:42 <mroman__> I forget how fancy mode worked
19:09:07 <mroman__> int-e: when did you last update it?
19:09:43 <mroman__> fancy def add: \?+ end add(5,4) end works on my local machine
19:09:48 <mroman__> but it doesn't work in the online shell
19:10:01 <mroman__> http://cheap.int-e.eu/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=fancy+def+add%3A+%5C%3F%2B+end+add%285%2C4%29+end
19:12:34 <mroman__> fancy mode is ineffecient af though :D
19:14:08 <int-e> it's actually february last year, I think.
19:14:25 <int-e> probably c2c638ee67af4da2ac8dea50789056bc74ff3260
19:15:47 <int-e> so it's not including the cleverly named "* moo* commit
19:16:09 <int-e> which does stuff like +parseFancyDef :: Parser BlsqExp
19:17:03 <mroman__> yeah so no fancy mode in the online shell then
19:17:07 <mroman__> no "* most ugliest hack in history of programming. "
19:17:44 <mroman__> but it seems to do some ridiculous scope handing :D
19:20:32 <mroman__> SOMEHOW I've managed to implement local function scopes?
19:20:47 <esowiki> [[Noid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53917&oldid=53056 * Zayne * (+52) /* Examples */
19:21:23 <mroman__> it uses the secondary stack for scops :D
19:21:34 <mroman__> if there's a map on the secondary stack it assumes this is the scope
19:22:21 <mroman__> depends on your definition of crazy vs. genius.
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19:22:52 <int-e> there is some overlap between the two
19:22:59 <int-e> oerjan_: long day?
19:23:43 <mroman__> it also means you can perform a swap on the secondary stack to switch to the local scope of the callee.
19:24:17 <mroman__> I could even implement stacktraces
19:24:27 <mroman__> by adding a "__NAME__" value to each scope
19:26:23 <mroman__> also I was planning on implementing a lisp mode.
19:27:38 <mroman__> so li is free as a prefix for a lisp mode.
19:29:26 <oerjan_> why isn't lambdabot pinging me about b_jonas's message
19:30:31 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan.
19:30:40 <oerjan> someone had tried to snatch it
19:32:03 <zzo38> zseri: That isn't quite right either, but when you see what I have (once I post it; I have started writing it, but not finish yet) then you will see.
19:32:11 <lambdabot> wob_jonas said 2h 45m 37s ago: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/153948/mutually-exclusive-quines/154259#154259
19:32:51 <oerjan> b_jonas: my haskell version is now working, although it's at 1216 score so some golfing is needed...
19:33:17 <int-e> mroman__: you should add a .cabal file
19:34:18 <oerjan> don't know if i can get it down as much as that perl.
19:38:47 <int-e> so anyway I updated the thing
19:39:01 <int-e> mroman__: it's tedious to install the dependencies manually
19:39:24 <mroman__> did you have to install new stuff?
19:39:56 <int-e> especially since the list in the README doesn't even cover all the depedencies of the cgi: utf8-string and cgi are missing (or is the former a dependency of the latter... didn't check)
19:40:25 <mroman__> weird. I didn't add new imports did i?
19:40:43 <int-e> they've always been missing
19:40:48 <int-e> I just haven't complained before
19:41:49 <zseri> zzo38: where are the most differences?
19:42:10 <int-e> mroman__: regardless, you *should* have ssh access (or did you lose the key?) so you can update the thing yourself
19:42:34 <mroman__> probably forget that longtime ago
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19:45:22 <mroman__> readme probably only covers how to compile main.hs :D
19:45:39 <int-e> fingerprint: 4096 SHA256:rpx/EgfJ1VIJwHOJEFvrSM0TBgDVkW766xELa89y8jg me@<redacted> (RSA)
19:46:05 <zzo38> zseri: Well, this is what I have for the file format description: https://arin.ga/tCJ5QC
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19:56:50 <mroman> The 4096 looks familiar
19:59:18 <mroman> Too bad HKDF aren't that popular.
19:59:57 <oerjan> down to 1120, but what this mostly needs is a more efficient way to clear the 8th bits of a String when you have no digits.
20:00:32 <oerjan> currently i'm using map(flip(foldr$pure pred)$(pure(show())`mapM`show(():pure())))
20:04:45 <oerjan> no need to use flip when the argument is right there
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20:20:16 <wob_jonas> oerjan: you're writing a Haskell solution for the same thing?
20:23:52 <int-e> sure. "I need an arbitrary string of length 7... oh, let's just use show(():pure())"
20:24:29 <wob_jonas> "b_jonas: my haskell version is now working, although it's at 1216 score so some golfing is needed..."
20:27:51 <wob_jonas> the perl version has like twenty bytes of practically free improvement if you don't care about readability. you can remove most of the newlines, and shorten the tr/// patterns
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20:30:46 <lambdabot> Source not found. Are you typing with your feet?
20:35:22 <wob_jonas> > and you don't have uppercases either?
20:35:26 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
20:44:59 <oerjan> 1053 now, so beating the forth
20:45:31 <oerjan> int-e: i changed the length 7 string to show(Just()) :P
20:46:48 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/foo.dc clocks in at 655 now
20:47:32 <int-e> using ternary and digits DEF
20:48:06 <int-e> `` dc <<<zzzziFDEDFFEDEEFEEDFFEDEFFFEDDFDEEFDEEEDDFFDFDDFEEDFFFDEDEEDEDFFFEFDEFEFFEDDFFFEDDEDEEDDEEFFDDDFDDEEEEDEDFEFEEFEFEFDEEFFEFFDDDDDEDFFDDEFEFFFDFEFDDDDFFFDFDDDDFDFDDFEDEDDEFDFFEFEFEEFDEDDFFFFDFFFDFFDFDDFEEFEDDFDFDEFEDDFFDEFDEFFDFDDEDFDFEDEDFEDDEDFFEFDEFEDDDEEFDFEDFFEDFFDEEDEEDDFDFFDDFFEFEDFFEDEEDFDFFEEDFEFFDDEEFDFEDFFDDFDEDEDEEDFFDFDEDEDEDDEEDDDEEDDDEEDEEEEFFEEFEDFEFEEDDDDDDDEEEFFFDFFDDFEEFpP
20:48:07 <HackEgo> 354758199062468831342373110870127442854422789293566841724784280569165\ \ 009804899383233356478813259809473621590837667199140185893201941820118\ \ 63941021218364081299295059601563721145577907978 \ !echo -n '\172\172\172\172\151' \ 16o[13-3~13+rd15<xn]dsxxn!echo -n '\160\120'
20:48:41 <int-e> `` DC_LINE_LENGTH=10000 dc <<<zzzziFDEDFFEDEEFEEDFFEDEFFFEDDFDEEFDEEEDDFFDFDDFEEDFFFDEDEEDEDFFFEFDEFEFFEDDFFFEDDEDEEDDEEFFDDDFDDEEEEDEDFEFEEFEFEFDEEFFEFFDDDDDEDFFDDEFEFFFDFEFDDDDFFFDFDDDDFDFDDFEDEDDEFDFFEFEFEEFDEDDFFFFDFFFDFFDFDDFEEFEDDFDFDEFEDDFFDEFDEFFDFDDEDFDFEDEDFEDDEDFFEFDEFEDDDEEFDFEDFFEDFFDEEDEEDDFDFFDDFFEFEDFFEDEEDFDFFEEDFEFFDDEEFDFEDFFDDFDEDEDEEDFFDFDEDEDEDDEEDDDEEDDDEEDEEEEFFEEFEDFEFEE...
20:48:47 <int-e> ...DDDDDDDEEEFFFDFFDDFEEFpP
20:49:32 <HackEgo> cat: bin/dc: No such file or directory
20:50:28 <oerjan> we have not yet corrupted that particular program
20:51:04 <oerjan> to speed up the process, use it to edit wisdoms hth
20:51:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mkbin: not found
20:51:20 <HackEgo> `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
20:51:41 <wob_jonas> int-e: will you submit that eventually?
20:52:00 <int-e> `mkx bin/dc//DC_LINE_LENGTH=10000 /usr/bin/dc "$@"
20:52:18 <int-e> `` dc <<<zzzziFDEDFFEDEEFEEDFFEDEFFFEDDFDEEFDEEEDDFFDFDDFEEDFFFDEDEEDEDFFFEFDEFEFFEDDFFFEDDEDEEDDEEFFDDDFDDEEEEDEDFEFEEFEFEFDEEFFEFFDDDDDEDFFDDEFEFFFDFEFDDDDFFFDFDDDDFDFDDFEDEDDEFDFFEFEFEEFDEDDFFFFDFFFDFFDFDDFEEFEDDFDFDEFEDDFFDEFDEFFDFDDEDFDFEDEDFEDDEDFFEFDEFEDDDEEFDFEDFFEDFFDEEDEEDDFDFFDDFFEFEDFFEDEEDFDFFEEDFEFFDDEEFDFEDFFDDFDEDEDEEDFFDFDEDEDEDDEEDDDEEDDDEEDEEEEFFEEFEDFEFEEDDDDDDDEEEFFFDFFDDFEEFpP
20:52:19 <HackEgo> 35475819906246883134237311087012744285442278929356684172478428056916500980489938323335647881325980947362159083766719914018589320194182011863941021218364081299295059601563721145577907978 \ !echo -n '\172\172\172\172\151' \ 16o[13-3~13+rd15<xn]dsxxn!echo -n '\160\120'
20:52:58 <int-e> (now what was that magical args-or-stdin thing
20:53:47 <int-e> wob_jonas: no, I'm staying away from stackexchange
20:54:46 <wob_jonas> dc is hard because it can't easily work with strings
20:55:04 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/*stdin*: No such file or directory
20:55:19 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/shebang_args_or_input
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20:56:34 <int-e> `mkx bin/dc//print_args_or_input "$@" | DC_LINE_LENGTH=10000 /usr/bin/dc
20:57:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /bin/dc: No such file or directory
20:57:42 <wob_jonas> you're doing a lot of setup for omitting -e
20:58:29 <int-e> anyway, I wanted that to continue to work
20:58:34 <HackEgo> dc: stack empty \ dc: 'e' (0145) unimplemented \ 42
20:59:02 <int-e> feel free to `revert
20:59:28 <wob_jonas> I have actual obfus that use that feature
21:00:28 <wob_jonas> ``` /usr/bin/dc dc -e1d[pdsd+ldrlxx]dsxx
21:00:29 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031
21:00:31 <wob_jonas> ``` /usr/bin/dc -e1d[pdsd+ldrlxx]dsxx
21:00:32 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031
21:00:47 <HackEgo> dc: stack empty \ dc: 'e' (0145) unimplemented \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 1655801
21:01:13 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031
21:01:15 <oerjan> <mroman> Why can't you nest () in bfjoust? <-- you can, but each part must have matched [] brackets
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21:07:39 <int-e> that Iv trick (which replaces zzzz) makes it 239+355 = 594
21:07:42 <mroman_> https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2028/what-are-programming-languages/2073#2073
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21:08:16 <mroman_> 1. can add numbers 2. can answer is prime
21:08:35 <mroman_> that was your best shot at defining what a language is o_O?
21:12:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: right, I could just use A instead of I
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21:13:07 <mroman_> and i still think the idea of allowing any language for golfing kinda defeats the purpose of golfing.
21:13:26 <mroman_> competition _between_ language is useless, competition _within_ language is what matters.
21:13:39 <wob_jonas> mroman_: sure, if you care strictly for lowest byte count
21:14:10 <mroman_> well there's also cleverness
21:14:15 <mroman_> but you can't rate that objectively :D
21:31:04 <oerjan> mroman_: everyone who doesn't use a golfing language treats it as within languages anyway
21:31:19 <oerjan> in other news my 128 length list is now a$a$a$a$a$a$show()
21:31:38 <oerjan> (with a defined to be show)
21:31:49 <oerjan> (the last one doesn't convert because of type)
21:38:50 <oerjan> oh that trick got me down to 988
21:39:07 <wob_jonas> > oerjan: can you use apostrophes?
21:39:10 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
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21:39:35 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no, they're used for char literals in the other program
21:40:32 <oerjan> alternatively, i'm already using " quotes, but they need code to place them
21:40:35 <int-e> meh, stupid shells and their different ideas of echo.
21:41:11 <oerjan> so show() is the shortest way i've found to get a length 2 string. hm..
21:42:50 <oerjan> also, procrastinating eating again ->
21:44:42 <int-e> so I'm back to using env echo instead of just echo, and that means that I cannot use v to get base 3.
21:45:08 <int-e> --> 438 + 294 = 732
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22:00:56 <greysondn> Anyway, question since assumably you lot would be the best community to ask
22:01:07 <greysondn> Are there any languages which - like Piet - have source code that doubles as an image?
22:01:22 <greysondn> ASCII Art does not count. Sorry, brainf*ck.
22:03:05 <wob_jonas> and you can make images that are also source code in ordinary languages
22:03:06 <greysondn> Oh? Language reference links? I've never seen them.
22:03:21 <wob_jonas> I made one that's a BMP and a perl source once, because that's easy enouhg
22:03:22 <greysondn> And that point, also, is interesting.
22:04:33 <greysondn> Piet++ - no reference interpreters, but at least the language is ... lolnope "This is a work in progress, and is still in development."
22:04:45 <greysondn> I bet it could be used as-is if someone really wanted to, though.
22:08:05 <zseri> zzo38: the index and key format is missing from https://arin.ga/tCJ5QC
22:12:09 <int-e> b_jonas: okay. using AAZ now, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/foo.dc, 681 total.
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22:12:34 <int-e> I think that's where I'll stop
22:13:03 <int-e> b_jonas: wob_jonas: heh you're both here.
22:13:31 <wob_jonas> it's pretty common that we're both here, yes
22:14:47 <int-e> `` dc <<<AAZiCCABACCCBCAACBCCABBCBCCCCACCCCABBBBABACCBBBAACABCAABCAABABCBBACCACBBAABCBCBAABBACBCCCCCACACCACCAAABCCCCBBCCBCABBBBABCABBCBABBACBAAABCACCCBBBBAAACBBABABCCCABCBCBBCBAACBCBAACBBBCCBCABBBCACACCCAABCCCBCAABACBBBAACBCCBBAAACBBBBBCBACBCABCBAABCBACABCBCCCCAACCCCCCBBBCABBBBBCBACAACACCAAACBCBBCCCBCCBCBACBCAACBAACACCBCAAAABABBCACACBCBBCBCACACAABCCACBCCACACCABCBBCCCACABAABCBACBCCABCCCBAABCBCCBB...
22:14:53 <int-e> ...CABAAACBAABBCBAApP
22:15:03 <int-e> ah right, it grew.
22:15:59 <int-e> `` dc <<<AAZiCCABACCCBCAACBCCABBCBCCCCACCCCABBBBABACCBBBAACABCAABCAABABCBBACCACBBAABCBCBAABBACBCCCCCACACCACCAAABCCCCBBCCBCABBBBABCABBCBABBACBAAABCACCCBBBBAAACBBABABCCCABCBCBBCBAACBCBAACBBBCCBCABBBCACACCCAABCCCBCAABACBBBAACBCCBBAAACBBBBBCBACBCABCBAABCBACABCBCCCCAACCCCCCBBBCABBBBBCBACAACACCAAACBCBBCCCBCCBCBACBCAACBAACACCBCAAAABABBCACACBCBBCBCACACAABCCACBCCACACCABCBBCCCACABAABCBACBCCABCCCBAABCBCCBBCABAAACBAABBCBAApP
22:15:59 <HackEgo> 1249867311456297728387960972348495142474463915096892194287334566420180005111187276970370834783840884675510357165215228078141090252786047354531385978279481333741640036613277888577644516261113895 \ F!env echo -ne '\101\101\132\151' \ o[10-3~10+rdF<xn]dsxxn!env echo -ne '\160\120'
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22:35:06 <wob_jonas> are you boycotting pcgse like ais?
22:36:02 <int-e> I'm not on SE at all
22:37:08 <int-e> And I still managed to waste the better part of the day on a puzzle that originated there.
22:37:39 <int-e> But at least this way that won't happen every day.
22:38:51 <zzo38> Yes, the index and key format is missing; I will fix that in my source code now
22:39:18 <wob_jonas> there's probably a much shorter perl solution, but then you'd have to divide useful characters more carefully, rather than using only seven of them in one of the programs
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23:08:52 <hppavilion[1]> Does anyone know of any decent algorithm for plotting arbitrary loci? Or is that the sort of thing one has to roll-one's-own?
23:09:27 <oerjan> i'm trying to calculate the length of a string in my head and failed several times
23:11:03 <oerjan> wob_jonas: well i got it at last, 182
23:11:24 <oerjan> (i swap out 128 for that because i have an easy way to generate it)
23:14:08 <oerjan> and there i finally beat you, 930
23:14:33 <oerjan> (but you've said you could golf about that much)
23:15:28 <wob_jonas> oerjan: more in fact. removing 6 newlines is free, and saves 3*6
23:16:03 <wob_jonas> you can make tr|\x00-\x7F|\x80-\xFF| much shorter too, and that counts six times
23:17:41 <oerjan> oh well, beating perl on this kind of stuff is hard.
23:17:44 <wob_jonas> probably like tr|j\x02-\x7F|\x81-\xFE| but writing all four of those escapes as literals instead, or something like that
23:17:55 <wob_jonas> yes, 930 in *Haskell* is quite impressive
23:18:01 <wob_jonas> Haskell is long for tasks like this
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23:21:49 <wob_jonas> oh, and the last semicolon can be removed too, and that also counts 6 times
23:22:59 <wob_jonas> and you could replace @f[0..6] with @f for four additional characters in the list of character codes, so that's 4*6 more
23:23:29 <wob_jonas> 48 definitely free even without modifying the tr
23:25:43 <wob_jonas> the best way to save a lot would be if I could put the replication into the second obfu.
23:26:05 <wob_jonas> but that's hard because it would need omitting two or three digits
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00:49:43 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53918&oldid=53914 * Noner Kao * (+16) /* Projects */ Add reference
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02:22:51 <oerjan> posted https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/154282/
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02:54:25 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoku]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53919&oldid=53915 * Noner Kao * (+275) Add info box
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04:01:13 <zzo38> I had many idea of new Magic: the Gathering cards: {?} Instant ;; The next time a nontoken Aura dies this turn, you may cast it. {?} Creature - ? (1/1) ;; When ~ enters the battlefield, move all counters from all objects and players onto ~. {0} Instant ;; Target.
04:01:19 <zzo38> What opinions/comment/question/complaint/whatever do you have about this please?
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05:56:30 <Sgeo_> When ~ enters the battlefield, move all counters from all objects and players onto ~.
05:56:35 <Sgeo_> The ultimate anti-Planeswalker tech
05:57:18 <Sgeo_> Also mix with decks that have creatures that have -1/-1 tokens as some kind of cost
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06:02:54 <zzo38> Yes, it is the ultimate anti-planeswalker tech. I have not thought of that, but yes, you are correct; that is one of the things it will do. And, yes, -1/-1 as some kind of cost is another thing; there is a lot more things it does too, such as get rid of poison, reset cumulative upkeep, allow creatures with persist or undying to survive a second time, cast suspended cards, etc
06:15:03 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53920&oldid=53918 * Noner Kao * (+16) /* Projects */ add reference
06:19:30 <Sgeo_> Hmm, R&D hates getting rid of poison. Maro called Leeches a mistake.
06:20:40 <shachaf> Sgeo_: does it move counterspells from the stack onto ~ twh
06:21:18 <Sgeo_> Yes, and it also makes spells where all its targets are invalid valid again. Through magic.
06:21:33 <Sgeo_> (Fizzling counts as countering iirc)
06:21:46 <zzo38> Sgeo_: I know, and I do not really agree with them
06:22:46 <shachaf> I particularly don't like when a spell lets you choose any number of targets, including zero, and you choose one, and then it goes away, and the spell fizzles.
06:23:30 <Sgeo_> shachaf, are you in MtG Arena?
06:24:48 <shachaf> When is it coming out of beta?
06:25:57 <Sgeo_> Don't know, hopefully this year?
06:26:05 <FireFly> shachaf: the ambigram? or the orange one? or a different one?
06:26:12 <Sgeo_> I'm having fun but hoping for precon decks or draft sooner rather than later
06:26:39 <shachaf> Sgeo_: are you in Prismatarena?
06:26:53 <shachaf> I haven't Prismatad in a long time so I'm pretty rusty.
06:27:27 <Sgeo_> I haven't played in a while. Let me know when there's a full single player campaign so I can learn to be less terrible.
06:27:31 <Sgeo_> Also I should be asleep soon.
06:27:53 <shachaf> So should I, so we can make it a quick one.
06:28:10 <shachaf> I learned to be exactly as terrible as I am without a campaign.
06:28:55 <Sgeo_> Sorry, not right now
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09:06:35 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53921&oldid=53920 * Noner Kao * (+36) /* Projects */ kind of disclaimers
09:07:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Noner Kao * moved [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoku]] to [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]: Fixing spell
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10:26:03 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53924&oldid=53922 * Noner Kao * (+1166) Add more information and ready to go public
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14:06:55 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53925&oldid=53921 * Noner Kao * (+1)
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15:12:51 <wob_jonas> zzo38: on removing counters: I support that. My opinion is that counters should usually make the object they are on better, Dark Depths should never have been made and it should be banned, the Vampire Hexmage might be a bit undercosted for acting on all permanents but shouldn't be blamed for the Dark Depths trouble, Aether Snap is definitely ok, an
15:12:51 <wob_jonas> d the Hatchlings are ok but should be costed carefully.
15:13:23 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53926&oldid=53924 * Noner Kao * (+230) /* Terms */ refine the writing
15:13:53 <wob_jonas> And there should be cards like Aether Snap so that you can deal with Helix Pinnacle directly.
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15:18:39 <wob_jonas> Mind you, Helix Pinnacle is really underpowered and doesn't need specific counters in practice, but still, M:tG should provide the crazy tools.
15:20:56 <wob_jonas> zzo38: that aura one is scary, it allows you to cast other player's cards. that isn't utterly forbidden in Magic, but you have to be very careful with it.
15:21:25 <wob_jonas> I also don't like the phrasing. Is it trying to say you may cast the aura card from the graveyard immediately?
15:21:52 <wob_jonas> Maybe the phrasing is fine, but I don't see why you want this ability.
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15:25:33 <izabera> https://hackaday.io/project/18599-brainfuck-relay-computer
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15:34:51 <mroman_> and what does 8bit mode do?
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15:59:10 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53927&oldid=53926 * Noner Kao * (+881) /* Execution Cycle */ Show the pseudo code
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17:11:07 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I was wrong. in my perl code, you can't easily save 6*2 bytes by removing the '[0..6]' subscript and adjusting the numbers. I think you can still save some by removing the subscript, adjusting the numbers, and moving the statement earlier. I'll try.
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17:30:16 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I've got the code down to 893 bytes total, without touching the tr patterns. Then I headdesked.
17:30:47 <wob_jonas> Perl allows me to use the ~ operator to bytewise complement a string. I don't have to use ^ at all.
17:31:58 <wob_jonas> So now I have to figure out how to do that with the rest of the characters available, which shouldn't be too hard, and that will cut the length of this obfu by a lot.
17:33:46 <wob_jonas> I can't unpack (unless I convert the second obfu to a subroutine, but I really don't want that) or split or =~, but I can at least ord and chr
17:34:33 <wob_jonas> And I also can't dollar sign in this version. That can be changed if I really want to, but it's a bit costly.
17:35:33 <wob_jonas> I could just ^"\x255"x99 of course
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19:48:19 <int-e> though not always... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ARM_microarchitectures
19:50:58 <int-e> Funny, I have not seen the term MPU before. (By the looks of it it protects memory regions but does no address translation.)
19:51:55 <int-e> so you should get process isolation but no virtual memory.
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19:59:38 <mroman_> If you had opcodes with 1 bit/2bit to encode register
19:59:58 <mroman_> would you use 1bit for destination and 2bits for source, or 2bits for destination and 1bit for source?
20:08:06 <int-e> you can mix it up... 8 different combinations.
20:11:54 <int-e> just at random: A,C A,D B,C B,D C,A C,B D,A D,B
20:12:10 <int-e> (okay, I lied, it's not completely random... I just don't know whether it's any good)
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20:44:26 <mroman_> http://codepad.org/DKPPWPQZ is what I have so far
20:52:31 <mroman_> but I might need three byte instructions as well :(
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21:16:14 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes I mean you can cast it from the graveyard immediately (whether or not you own that card). You still need to pay the cost.
21:21:16 <zzo38> (I disagree about Dark Depths though. Like most things, whether it is helpful to have counters or not depends on circumstances. Even the same counter on the same object, adding or removing one counter can both mess up your plan, and you have to now compensate. Furthermore, with Dark Depths, while Aether Snap can remove the counters, responding with Fork can remove the token as well. However, Dark Depths apparently is banned.)
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21:31:08 <wob_jonas> zzo38: what's this about Fork? I don't think Fork helps against Dark Depths.
21:43:28 <zzo38> wob_jonas: You can Fork the Aether Snap.
21:43:49 <zzo38> (Of course, Dark Depths is not itself a valid target.)
21:44:15 <wob_jonas> but people use Vampire Hexmage, right?
21:45:21 <zzo38> Well, that can help too. But I don't know what decks are common.
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21:53:05 <mroman_> I just realized burlasque's fc isn't lazy
21:54:56 <mroman_> (BlsqBlock $ map (BlsqInt) . nub . sort $ factors' a a)
21:55:05 <mroman_> why do I need to sort and nub factors
21:55:54 <int-e> so why do you need to sort, is the real question :)
21:56:30 <mroman_> yeah, that's a good question.
21:56:53 <mroman_> because when it computes the factors of let's say 12
21:57:02 <mroman_> it'l see whether 12 % 3 == 0
21:57:30 <mroman_> so it produces 1,12,2,6,3,4
21:59:34 <mroman_> nub is so that 16 won't have two 4s in it
21:59:42 <wob_jonas> why does blsq even have lazyness? is it so you can work with infinite lists better?
21:59:51 <int-e> mroman_: that's a bit sad :)
22:00:19 <wob_jonas> Is there a sort-nub primitive together?
22:01:21 <mroman_> but it seems to be doing something else
22:02:59 <mroman_> no idea why that was added
22:03:19 <mroman_> seems useful in some cases :D
22:03:35 <wob_jonas> it's for when you want to find unique sets
22:03:41 <mroman_> add builtins, ask question laters
22:03:45 <mroman_> it probably was for unique sets yes
22:05:34 <mroman_> guess it's time to add that :D
22:05:49 <mroman_> although now with the introduction of Prelude.blsq
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22:05:59 <mroman_> I don't even need to change the haskell code to do that.
22:07:12 <mroman_> i always wanted to add support for proper matrices too
22:07:21 <mroman_> but haven't found a good haskell package for that probably
22:07:33 <mroman_> also it's got support for concurrent stuff now btw
22:07:40 <mroman_> you can fork and have chans.
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22:08:42 <mroman_> that reminds me the moonpage is still far from complete
22:09:35 <mroman_> doesn't really have complex numbers yet
22:09:40 <mroman_> and I think it has no trigonometrie yet?
22:10:00 <int-e> > let factor n = let go d | d*d > n = go' (d-1) | d*d >= n = go' d | n `mod` d == 0 = d:go (d+1) | True = go (d+1); go' 0 = []; go' d | n `mod` d == 0 = n `div` d : go' (d-1) | True = go' (d-1) in go 1 in (factor 12, factor 16) -- silly, inefficient, but lazy
22:10:04 <lambdabot> ([1,2,3,4,6,12],[1,2,4,8,16])
22:11:15 <mroman_> and I need to figure out whether I can put parsec into burlesque
22:12:00 <mroman_> I was thinking of somehow being able to expose various IO stuff as chans
22:12:08 <mroman_> for example udp/tcp or files
22:12:18 <mroman_> that you can all access as chans
22:12:27 <mroman_> (so I don't have to create blsq types for sockets, files and everything)
22:12:46 <mroman_> also probably going to add encryption
22:12:50 <mroman_> my todo list is still huge.
22:13:13 <mroman_> and it's got mysql support
22:13:21 <mroman_> doesn't really support all data types
22:13:40 <mroman_> so I was thinking about doing that through chans as well
22:13:44 <mroman_> you write a query to a chan
22:13:50 <mroman_> you get the result back on another chan
22:14:38 <mroman_> the whole point of blsq was to just cram as much stuff into it as possible
22:18:18 <mroman_> also somebody could make burlesque notebooks
22:20:13 <mroman_> int-e: that looks bloated.
22:21:30 <mroman_> also there needs to be a builtin to translate two's complements
22:24:26 <mroman_> and fancy mode could use while loops and ifs
22:24:33 <mroman_> yep. still a lot of work to do.
22:27:48 <zzo38> I tried "lsusb -v" and now it is stuck; how to stop it? "kill -9" doesn't work.
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23:23:46 <fungot> boily: the finance industry probably would be.)
23:27:56 <fizzie> Our internet did a blip.
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00:18:57 <\oren\> if the mining of slime takes place under a chlorine atmosphere then the dupes won't get any germs on them
00:19:19 <\oren\> eureka, I'll pipe chlorine into the swamp to disinfect it
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00:25:42 <fizzie> Added an experimental stalker mode. It's not terribly likely to work out right.
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01:03:35 <esowiki> [[Category:2018]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53928 * Oerjan * (+11) Create
01:05:34 <esowiki> [[Template:Yearcats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53929&oldid=50616 * Oerjan * (+26) Add 2018
01:09:15 <oerjan> this is the longest delay before adding the new year since the template was created.
01:21:33 <HackEgo> 11291:2017-12-31 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is early. \ 11251:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs (but not time zones) \ 11250:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs \ 11236:2017-11-04 <shachäf> learn The password of the month i
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01:41:38 <oerjan> shachaf: that was, obviously, the shortest delay.
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04:12:31 <wob_jonas> oerjan: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/154259/6691 388. I thought this rewrite would go down to only like 550 bytes or something.
04:12:37 <wob_jonas> it came out unexpectedly short for what I changed.
04:13:53 <wob_jonas> I only rewrote it because being longer than a haskell solution for this problem that should obviously favor perl was too shameful.
04:14:28 <wob_jonas> especially as the solutions are so similar, they both have a long string literal and transliterate its characters
04:25:25 <wob_jonas> but maybe with the too long original submission I inspired you to write that haskell solution, which would be a good thing
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04:33:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:fomething//Fomething denotes the obsolescence of clinical insanity. \ phantom___hoover//Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. \ hmph//His Master's Phonetic Hmph \ victoria//Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest. \ `4//`4 <cmd> is equivalent to `5 <cmd>, exc
04:34:27 <HackEgo> 2/2:ept that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5.
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05:03:53 * oerjan found a golfing improvement to someone else's answer by thinking completely wrongly and the result working anyway
05:05:43 <oerjan> i was trying to apply a standard haskell golfing trick to choose between two options, but i somehow ended up including _both_ in one case.
05:06:19 <trout> what's the standard trick?
05:08:54 <oerjan> anyway the original is a recursive function to find the maximum of a list. gg((xx:xxx:xxxx)) | ((xx>>xx)) < ((xxx>>xx)) = gg $ xxx:xxxx|xx==xx = gg((xx:xxxx))
05:09:23 <oerjan> (it looks strange because there's a goal to not have certain substrings
05:09:51 <oerjan> you remove the smallest of the two first elements, then recurse.
05:10:28 <oerjan> but i swapped them instead, when the second was larger
05:10:51 <oerjan> turns out that works because the right element gets removed at the next step.
05:12:23 <oerjan> without that brain fart, my adjustment wouldn't have saved bytes, but now i could rewrite it further and save almost 20 bytes
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05:14:31 <oerjan> oh it's not just maximum, it's a maximal _length_
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05:27:44 <oerjan> also still forgetting to eat, or go to sleep for that matter
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07:16:57 <mroman> @tell wob_jonas it's lazy so you can work with infinite lists yes
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19:25:14 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/gcJamBp copied to imgur in case they fix this
19:26:22 <\oren\> why they shouldn't make the news headlines so short
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20:46:53 * int-e is relieved to see that this is not ##feline after all.
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21:29:02 <mroman> there's a ##feline channel?
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21:35:54 <int-e> I'd assume it's like ##english but for cats and other felines speakers.
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22:37:25 <HackEgo> 1019) <Sgeo> So. In general. Fuck ... actually, I'm not really annoyed at anything right now
22:37:43 <HackEgo> harp knife. Measure 2 cups of the chocolate mixture along with \ the oil and let it stand and add the all the well over topping. Spread \ into beef baking dish, place a seem and broth. Turn out \ until well blended and adding at least over. It about 3 hours or \ for about 30 minutes. \ \ Recipe By : The Meal-Master format courtesy \ for you
22:43:22 <wob_jonas> about 3 hours or for about 30 minutes
22:43:50 <wob_jonas> fungot: 3 hours or 30 minutes, which one do you prefer?
22:43:50 <fungot> wob_jonas: yeah but i keep getting chicken.h: not a datatype. i don't know any of the other
22:44:15 <wob_jonas> fungot: yes, this isn't Java, one file isn't one class.
22:44:15 <fungot> wob_jonas: i don't even know what most of sun's current jvm is based on
22:44:36 <wob_jonas> fungot: yeah, hard to follow all that new tech
22:44:37 <fungot> wob_jonas: inside ive tried fnord, but they honestly couldn't take more than a list?
22:44:49 <wob_jonas> fungot: everything is a list actually under the hood
22:44:50 <fungot> wob_jonas: the bean factory is sucking my soul away! :) but chicken is nicer, i seem to have
22:45:12 <wob_jonas> fungot: maybe try to measure 2 cups of chocolate mixture along with the oil. it will make you feel better.
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23:35:54 <Sgeo> I... don't think I ever actually said that.
23:48:47 <fizzie> Sgeo: https://esolangs.org/logs/2013-05-08.html#lF
23:49:57 <fizzie> ...also, those 10 preceding "?unknown? has joined" messages are probably not right.
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23:51:31 <fizzie> Hmm, looks like my log backfilling has not properly marked those as "outgoing" messages.
23:53:10 <fizzie> Oh, of course: b'>' != '>'.
23:53:17 <fizzie> (The backfill was done with a Python script.)
23:54:16 <Sgeo> I don't remember context of that.
23:57:47 <HackEgo> minutes. Add the beer, garlic, garlic, chile paste, and the \ cornstarch with salt and pepper. Bake in a 350oFFLO. Add the tomatoes \ and melted sugar in a bowl. Cool and place with the garlic and add taste \ grated liqueur together. Roll out the dough and label the dough. Use a \ liquid, sugar steaks. Turn off any flour; stir in \ beans, cook
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00:38:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ysacbell: not found
00:38:26 <boily> `ysaclist # dammit
00:38:27 <HackEgo> ysaclist # dammit: boily shachaf
00:40:29 <\oren\> boily: masterfully minced
00:45:27 <boily> ヘ＼＼オレン＼！ whangjangled like a chef.
00:48:09 <wob_jonas> Sgeo: maybe it was someone else using the same nick
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00:59:48 <\oren\> boily: 6 days to falcon heavy launch
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01:54:46 <oerjan> <\oren\> why they shouldn't make the news headlines so short <-- i don't get what the headline is _supposed_ to mean...
01:55:30 <oerjan> unless there's some movie "child porn" that i haven't heard of
01:56:44 * oerjan doesn't actually recognize the person pictured
01:57:44 <oerjan> so many celebrities i don't know how they look, since i don't watch tv...
01:57:58 <oerjan> (or movies for that matter)
02:00:45 <boily> hellørjan. do you watch things at all?
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02:49:06 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> hellørjan. do you watch things at all? <-- nope, not even irc channels it seems
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03:37:49 <\oren\> oerjan: he;s a star in the show "Glee" who got convictedof child porn then killed himself
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09:24:29 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53930&oldid=53892 * Ais523 * (+990) more on the TAFM connection
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11:50:54 <int-e> @tell oerjan Oh GG... could it be love?
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13:57:24 <Taneb> `? commutative monoid
13:57:25 <HackEgo> commutative monoid? ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:05:10 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53931 * DMC * (+400) Created page with "'''Esoteric Programming Languages that I'm working on, and will uploaded here eventually:''' * Grawlix - brainfuck with some enhancements * NoRAL - assembly style language ba..."
14:12:06 <zemhill_> david_werecat.jackal: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-37)
14:12:32 <zemhill_> david_werecat.jackal2: points 12.88, score 35.48, rank 4/47
14:13:43 <ais523> ooh, that's a pretty good score
14:20:19 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53932&oldid=53931 * DMC * (+0)
14:26:51 <Taneb> Monoids are monoid objects in the category Set
14:27:21 <Taneb> Commutative monoids are monoid objects in the category Mon, which is the category of monoid objects in Set or Mon_Set
14:27:39 <Taneb> Does the category of commutative monoids have interesting monoid objects?
14:47:02 <Taneb> Hmm, the category of commutative monoids is a full subcategory of the category of monoids, because if f is a monoid homomorphism A -> B and A is commutative, then f(a)f(b) = f(ab) = f(ba) = f(b)f(a)
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16:10:56 <zseri> zzo38: are there any news?
16:16:25 <zseri> http://ezscheile.bplaced.net/SZENE.pdf#subsection.7.0.4
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19:38:56 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/dril/status/760997832237129729
20:05:24 <int-e> Well some exposure to #esoteric is suggested by this tweet.
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21:04:21 <zemhill_> david_werecat.atom: points 0.33, score 20.24, rank 17/47 (+11)
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22:34:17 <zemhill_> fizzie: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
22:34:51 <fizzie> @tell ais523 For some reason, it's just set up to answer to plain "!help".
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23:01:22 <lambdabot> CYUL 312248Z 08010KT 1 1/4SM -SN VV006 M10/M13 A2986 RMK SN8 SLP118
23:01:39 <boily> VV006? smells like shovel.
23:02:40 <lambdabot> oerjan said 20h 13m 33s ago: <boily> hellørjan. do you watch things at all? <-- nope, not even irc channels it seems
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23:06:55 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53933&oldid=53932 * DMC * (-2)
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