00:08:01 Taneb: fun, so why does... https://arin.ga/uEVn6I ... terminate? 00:12:50 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 00:49:40 -!- c0ntrapumpkin has changed nick to contrapumpkin. 00:56:30 -!- augur has joined. 01:23:38 -!- variable has joined. 01:47:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:06:39 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:12:56 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 02:15:41 -!- constant has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero). 02:34:36 -!- variable has joined. 03:07:21 -!- variable has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero). 03:13:57 -!- fnodeuser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:15:43 -!- fnodeuser has joined. 03:15:47 -!- fnodeuser has quit (Client Quit). 03:16:24 -!- fnodeuser has joined. 03:42:59 -!- hellomate2222 has joined. 04:17:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:39:21 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:53:21 -!- variable has joined. 05:11:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:03:31 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:06:56 -!- augur has joined. 06:16:44 -!- hellomate2222 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:24:07 -!- adu has joined. 06:27:30 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:43:48 -!- variable has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero). 07:07:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:08:22 -!- augur has joined. 07:30:21 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 07:31:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:36:51 -!- newsham has joined. 07:37:04 -!- newsham_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:40:10 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:45:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:12:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:18:09 -!- newsham_ has joined. 08:18:45 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:02:21 -!- newsham_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:02:37 -!- newsham has joined. 09:24:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:16:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:40:01 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:51:31 -!- sdfgsdfg23 has joined. 11:19:23 -!- TieSoul has joined. 11:34:00 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:51:54 Yay, there's a new generic source for malware in Germany, bealocalhost.de. 11:59:03 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:09:36 cant connect 12:09:54 sdfgsdfg23: it resolves to 127.0.0.1 :P 12:10:00 oh 12:10:04 silly me 12:11:43 Which is a mild curiosity by itself. It gets interesting when you learn that "bea" is short for "besonderes Anwaltspostfach", an electronic mailbox for lawyers that's supposed to become mandatory in January. 12:12:41 So why do they have that domain? Apparently, part of their client is a web service that runs locally. Which is something that browsers don't really like; you'll get lots of warnings. So they registered this domain. 12:13:54 And then it gets embarrassing because browsers warn when you're not using SSL. So there's an SSL certificate for that domain. And the private key is shipped with the client. And... surprise!... somebody revoked the certificate on the 21st or 22nd of December :) 12:15:28 int-e, I can't really prove that it terminates, but the recursive calls to pred and succ in the definition of succ are always to much smaller numbers 12:16:50 Taneb: Yes, I also believe that it terminates. However, I tried some automatic tools and they failed, and I don't have a complete paper proof either. 12:18:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:31:31 -!- zseri has joined. 12:39:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:02:03 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:11:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:13:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:13:43 * FireFly . o O ( be a localhost. yes, you too can now be a localhost! ) 13:15:50 FireFly: Yes, I liked that reading as well. 13:18:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 13:18:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:56 lawyers are assholes 13:22:00 generally 13:22:20 selfish 13:22:52 damn one of you will sue my ass now 13:23:26 unusual creatures 13:24:47 ? 13:25:28 sdfgsdfg23: I think you're overgeneralizing. 13:26:04 int-e: that "certificate for 127.0.0.1" thing is, unfortunately, not the stupidest use of certificates I'm aware of 13:26:07 although it's up there 13:26:48 ais523: it is really stupid when you use the same certificate everywhere and then it gets revoked :P 13:27:36 is "the private key became public" a sufficient reason for a CA to revoke unilaterally? 13:27:43 or do they need permission from the key's owner? 13:27:58 come to think of it, the private key might be enough on its own to create a revocation request 13:28:02 And there really isn't a good fix. (What they are trying to do, by the looks of it, is to get all the lawyers install a custom CA certificate, which, presumably, will then be used to sign the individual bealocalhost.de certificates. There's no way that this can end well.) 13:29:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:30:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:30:26 ‎[13:29] ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ now I'm wondering if 127.0.0.1 is inherently secure or if there's some way to inject packets to look like they come from there 13:30:27 ‎[13:29] ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ I think it's possible to send an IP packet with a forged source address, isn't it? just it tends not to be useful because you won't get a reply 13:32:07 well, properly configured routers and network stacks will not accept/forward such packages. 13:33:06 yes, if the address claims to be 127.0.0.1 most routers will be more than a little sceptical 13:33:07 But I believe that there's no guarantee that a packet with a forged 127.0.0.1 "from" address makes it to another host. 13:33:21 ...I'm missing a negation. 13:33:29 "huh, that packet's saying I sent it, that seems a little surprising" 13:38:01 Yes, I think best practices say that you shouldn't accept such packets. 13:39:09 <\oren\_> what is the quality of music that makes it sound christmasy? 13:39:20 <\oren\_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8IWkC7tT44 13:41:37 * int-e eyes \oren\_ suspiciously and doesn't click. 13:52:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVeWsxeG44U 14:03:43 <\oren\_> int-e: it's music from a game I've been playing, Xmas Shooting : Scramble! 14:42:13 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 14:43:22 ais523: as far as I see, the localhost trick works like this. win32 doesn't have sane AF_LOCAL sockets for some reason, so either you write a non-portable program that uses crazy win32-specific IPC and will never work on windows, or you write unsafe shit that uses localhost and will be secure only as long as there's only one user on your computer. 14:43:53 So now we got a lot of lazy programs that use localhost tcp communications and assume they're secure, despite that in most of them, any other user on the host can just make them misbehave. 14:44:14 Even on windows, it's sort of the easiest way to do IPC, which is why even non-portable programs do that. 14:44:45 wob_jonas: why would that need an SSL certificate, though? 14:44:59 ais523: to pacify browsers when there's a combination with an external site involved, I'd guess 14:45:32 ais523: it's even worse with browsers because when you view local pages, the browser just has to assume it's all secure, and can't distinguish between different things you download and view locally 14:47:48 wob_jonas: I mean, browsers don't use AF_LOCAL sockets either 14:47:57 no wait, the local files aren't relevant 14:48:03 you're saying the certificate is for localhost 14:48:27 then I guess it's a webpage served as a combination between localhost and some remote host 14:48:43 with some local program acting as a http server involved 14:48:49 and the browser wants the combination to be all https 15:29:45 -!- sdfgsdfg23 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:59:21 -!- moony has joined. 16:16:21 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 16:23:09 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:38:57 -!- garit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:40:36 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 16:42:35 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:52:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 16:52:57 debian now has vanilla ffmpeg, not just their avconv clone? nice 16:53:10 it's good to say these sorts of forks getting smoothed out 16:53:57 about the only other time this has happened was with eglibc, a fork that's ended now that they fixed their disputes with glibc and made one glibc that does what everyone wants 16:54:57 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 16:59:11 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:00:11 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 17:03:48 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:23:37 -!- variable has joined. 17:31:17 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:42:05 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:46:39 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 17:48:58 [[Decimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53656&oldid=52035 * MD XF * (+724) 17:53:15 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:55:22 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 17:56:53 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 17:58:30 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Changing host). 17:58:30 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 17:58:32 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Client Quit). 18:01:45 -!- constant has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero). 18:04:08 -!- dingbat has joined. 18:09:05 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:11:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 18:54:19 I have a book from library that mentions outguess stuff. They mention multiple choice test, and it seem maybe the people who design the test could use a computer to help to make it harder to guess. 18:54:44 They also mention falsified financial data; it also seem like you could write a computer program to help you to cheat at it. 18:56:54 They also mention Shannon's outguessing machine, and that he was the only person who could win. And then they described how we win, which is what I expected; he was able to carry out the program mentally, to know how the machine is working. 18:58:44 And in many of cases being mentioned, using dice might also be of some help. 18:59:33 -!- garit has joined. 18:59:33 -!- garit has quit (Changing host). 18:59:33 -!- garit has joined. 18:59:43 (Unless the government sells biased dice in order to more easily spy on people, but then the people can easily expose them doing so.) 19:12:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:34:08 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 19:35:03 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:46:16 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:48:39 -!- augur has joined. 19:52:52 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 20:15:57 -!- fnodeuser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:18:18 -!- fnodeuser has joined. 20:26:53 -!- moony has joined. 20:50:16 -!- variable has joined. 20:54:55 -!- garit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:57:47 -!- zseri has joined. 20:59:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:01:11 -!- FreeFull has quit. 21:11:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:23:09 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 21:23:11 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:23:57 -!- augur has joined. 21:24:20 -!- variable has quit (Quit: /dev/null is full). 21:24:27 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 21:31:55 -!- variable has joined. 21:35:24 -!- erkin has joined. 21:47:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:47:59 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:57 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:12:28 <\oren\_> what is the quality of music that makes it sound christmasy? <-- not being japanese is a start hth 22:14:18 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 22:24:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:34:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:36:12 . o O ( the trout is out there ) 22:36:20 oerjan: ? 22:36:42 ( no-one things this way ) O o . 22:37:10 Taneb: maybe japanese do 22:37:24 Perhaps! 22:37:55 In other news I finished the first chapter of the HoTT book just now 22:38:12 I'll find some paper and start the exercises tomorrow! 22:38:15 HoTT? 22:38:37 o 22:38:37 https://homotopytypetheory.org/book/ 22:38:43 Yeah, that is the one! 22:38:59 I got myself a physical copy (because paper is so nice) 22:40:13 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:43:47 I wonder how many book authors think about the abbreviating (and making sure they don't accidentally conflict with an existing book) when it comes to choosing the title. 22:46:11 Like my upcoming book, These Ants on Chess Pieces 22:48:09 (note: this is not actually a book I am writing or will be writing) 22:56:03 These Ants. Thants. 22:59:48 Taneb: Is it just macro lens photos of ants on chess pieces? 23:02:04 fizzie, possible 23:02:07 *possibly 23:11:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:15:31 The smoke just came out of my amplifier. :/ 23:15:48 There was a flash, a bang, and orange flames. 23:15:57 And a thin wisp of smoke. 23:16:27 Sad occasion. I liked that thing. 23:18:10 That smoke is sealed in there pretty well, but fire usually gets it out 23:21:07 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:32:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:35:11 -!- augur has joined. 23:50:45 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).