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00:25:11 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lartu * New user account
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00:27:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53594&oldid=53590 * Lartu * (+266) Hi! I'm Lartu
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00:42:09 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53595 * Lartu * (+580) Created page with "A '''Disan Count''' is a program designed to test whether a programming language can execute loops, conditionals, I/O and basic arithmetic operations successfully. === Algori..."
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00:50:37 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53596&oldid=53595 * Lartu * (+312)
00:51:29 <fizzie> Uh, I don't think that's right.
00:51:34 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53597&oldid=53596 * Lartu * (+6)
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00:52:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:Disan Count]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53598 * Ais523 * (+660) some problems with this idea
00:54:59 <ais523> fizzie: I wonder if Lartu will read my comments on the talk page
00:57:53 <fizzie> I wonder about that too. It's not entirely obvious that there are comments to an article.
00:58:47 <fizzie> Especially since the "Discussion" page link stays red if you're not logged in. (Though presumably they're logged in for now.)
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01:09:23 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53599&oldid=53597 * Lartu * (+509)
01:11:59 <fizzie> I think the answer's trending towards "no". Hmm.
01:12:32 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53600&oldid=53599 * Lartu * (-1)
01:12:48 <ais523> I'm tempted to add an example of a disan count in a non-TC language
01:12:54 <ais523> but most of them don't have proper I/O
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01:21:29 <fizzie> I wonder if this is part of some sort of weird disinformation campaign. Google finds no (relevant) hits for "disan count", and mostly just a footballer with the name. (Okay, there's one Twitter account that might be relevant.)
01:22:13 <ais523> I thought it was something made up by Lartu
01:22:21 <ais523> rather than something that's standard
01:23:22 <fizzie> Guess so. But saying "proposed by late 2016" makes it sound like A Thing.
01:23:39 <ais523> I was actually surprised that it didn't say 2017
01:24:20 <fizzie> Ah, that could be a typo, of course.
01:24:51 <ais523> which reminds me, are we going to make an esolang that acts differently in 2018?
01:24:57 <ais523> or are there no good ideas for that left?
01:28:16 <boily> fungot: any ideas?
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01:28:49 <fizzie> Are there others than 2014 and 2017 so far?
01:30:20 <fizzie> In the wiki, at least.
01:30:23 <ais523> IIRC there's a language which works in all years but one, maybe 2015?
01:30:32 <HackEgo> bin/2014 \ bin/2015 \ bin/2016 \ bin/2017
01:30:53 <ais523> hmm, 2017 was released early IMO
01:30:56 <shachaf> I think the ones in HackEgo don't work in any years because they're buggy.
01:31:00 <ais523> also is not an interesting enough variant
01:31:04 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
01:33:21 <fizzie> HackEgo's 2015 is the one that works like you said (all other years), but https://esolangs.org/wiki/2015 doesn't match that description.
01:33:45 <boily> is there a pantheon of the Most Bestest Esolangs Ever Like They Rock The Fungot?
01:34:00 <fizzie> `` for y in 201{4,5,6,7}; do echo -n "$y: "; $y; done
01:34:01 <HackEgo> 2014: 2015: Hello, world! \ 2016: 2017: Hello, world!
01:34:29 <fizzie> That seems all right. Though I vaguely remember there was some issue there.
01:35:07 <fizzie> boily: The list of featured languages?-) At least eventually, like in a century or so.
01:36:00 <boily> fizziello. indeed tdh
01:36:11 * boily also balances fizzie's parentheses (
01:40:45 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53601&oldid=53600 * Lartu * (+0) /* Algorithm */
01:44:01 <ais523> haha, I didn't even realise the program was bugged
01:44:34 <shachaf> I thought you were the one who pointed it out?
01:44:58 <ais523> no, I pointed out that the /concept/ is bugge
01:45:30 <fizzie> It's also missing a newline, so the output is "0 is even!2 is even!4 is even!..."
01:46:10 <fizzie> If C++ iostreams follow C rules, it might not output anything, since stdout is a text stream and there's no terminating newline.
01:46:33 <fizzie> But I agree that the conceptual problems are the more relevant ones.
01:52:57 <shachaf> Oh, never mind, you were talking about the wiki edit.
02:09:20 <\oren\_> fizzie: it's a Disanformation campaign
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02:13:12 <quintopia> iwant a language where every ) has to be balanced by a later ( rather than vice versan
02:13:39 <doesthiswork> you can do a brainfuck derivitive that swaps them
02:14:14 <shachaf> In the Hebrew keyboard layout, shift-9 produces ) and shift-0 produces (.
02:19:36 <Hooloovo0> write all your programs in hebrew hth
02:20:16 <doesthiswork> I didn't recognize you with that shiny new name
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02:24:11 <shachaf> \oren\_: How would you do it?
02:24:30 <\oren\_> is 0 also to the left of 1 instead of to the right of 0
02:25:36 <\oren\_> or arfe the numbers entirely reversed in order
02:26:18 <shachaf> It looks like http://www.fentek-ind.com/lHebrewBlackUSB.jpg
02:28:19 <\oren\_> shachaf: uh, but those numbers are shift 9 is (, not )
02:32:11 <\oren\_> did u know that pizza pizza has better nuggs and fries than mcdonalds
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02:36:17 <\oren\_> really tho I want those numbers to be locked shifted, since I always use the numpad when I'm typing a number
02:36:34 <\oren\_> that row's unshifted state should be !@#$%^&*()
02:37:48 <\oren\_> and numpad-less keyboards will be fed to nidhoggr
02:39:13 <\oren\_> macbooks don't have numpad so you have to use that top row
02:40:08 <garit> Is there any way to construct associative function f() from a non associative one g()? Example f(1,f(2,x))=f(2,f(1,x)=g(g(g(x)))
02:41:20 <garit> Thismis example is very slow, O(n), any smallest improvement would be a good thing
02:42:11 <\oren\_> garit: have you tried memoizing it
02:42:53 <garit> i don't know what do you mean by this
02:43:20 <\oren\_> well what language are you writing in?
02:43:37 <garit> Ah, cache,reading wiki
02:44:15 <garit> this will allow to make future calc faster, but the construction of this cache will still be O(n)
02:45:16 <garit> And if input\seed changes, (g), i need to rebuild it
02:49:39 <fizzie> There's enough numpadless keyboards for there to be a term ("tenkeyless", "TKL") specifically for them.
02:50:21 <fizzie> I looked at a few when last switching keyboards, but couldn't find a suitable one.
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02:51:55 <fizzie> (Well, http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/ were customizable enough, but that would've meant importing from US.)
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02:55:13 <\oren\_> I don't see why I should have to press hift in order to type a $
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03:26:05 <esowiki> [[Talk:Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53602&oldid=53598 * Lartu * (+539)
03:28:59 <esowiki> [[Talk:Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53603&oldid=53602 * Lartu * (+4)
03:34:08 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53604&oldid=53601 * Lartu * (+256)
03:35:50 <HackEgo> 1/2:k//K K K Ken \ boredom//A boredom is like a kingdom, except ruled by a bore. They don't tend to last very long before people revolt. \ synergy//Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. \ peer//Peer Gynt is a famous Norweg
03:35:53 <HackEgo> 2/2:ian troll. His reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections and torrenting his own files. \ brexit//brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
03:36:03 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53605&oldid=53604 * Lartu * (-3)
03:38:50 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53606&oldid=53605 * Lartu * (+18)
03:46:53 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53607&oldid=53606 * Lartu * (+8) /* Algorithm */
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07:36:44 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53608&oldid=53593 * Minin * (+0) move kappa
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11:38:14 <HackEgo> 1/2:atrocity//Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire. \ ascii//Ascii is the plural of ascius, "of or pertaining to southern countries, near the equator". \ tg//TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or
11:38:17 <HackEgo> 2/2: not. \ ip//Your IP address is the address of the pointer to the current instruction. \ radiohead//Radiohead is "rock music".
11:48:48 <fnodeuser> what are the messages that you're sending in here?
11:49:32 <shachaf> I asked HackEgo for 5 wisdom entries.
11:49:46 <shachaf> And those didn't fit on one line, so I asked for the next line.
11:49:59 <shachaf> (Actually I don't think n stands for next, but close enough.)
11:50:15 <fizzie> shachaf: It stands for "nore".
11:50:26 <shachaf> n stands for the number n, becuase it gives you the nth line of output
11:50:42 <shachaf> But with no arguments it just gives you the next line
11:50:46 <shachaf> It was originally called spam
11:51:12 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
11:52:30 <boily> fnodeuser: could you please mention fungot?
11:54:00 <boily> yes, and his name is?
11:54:15 <fizzie> boily: Isn't it "the bot who shall not be named"?
11:54:39 <boily> I'll find another unsuspecting victim!
11:54:43 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
11:54:56 <shachaf> Another thing not to say is `list
11:55:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: turing: not found
11:55:27 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think about this whole kerfuffle?
11:55:27 <fungot> fizzie: i still look forward to you plt port. might be an invalid expression ().
11:56:02 <boily> fungot: good morning!
11:56:02 <fungot> boily: there's nothing threatening about **********s.... you're kidding.it is?
11:56:30 <boily> fungot: yes, little snowflakes are threatening. very cold.
11:56:31 <fungot> boily: that's even easier then elements-until :p would be easier to save each character to a specific format) any ideas on how to learn scheme
11:56:35 <lambdabot> CYUL 141100Z 25013KT 15SM FEW020 SCT180 BKN210 M18/M23 A2961 RMK CU1AC3CI3 CU TR SLP032
11:56:47 <shachaf> you're overdoing it, boily
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12:08:18 <HackEgo> onëliner//onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance.
12:08:24 <b_jonas> who made this put formatting in the output?
12:12:37 <fizzie> If you mean the boldness, I seem to recall it was the 'chaf. It *was* a little difficult to distinguish boundaries in the `5 w output.
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12:26:59 <esowiki> [[Disan Count]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53609&oldid=53607 * Lartu * (+1)
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12:35:26 <esowiki> [[Popular problem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53610&oldid=53247 * Lartu * (+112)
12:36:56 <fnodeuser> fizzie: 'officially. fizzie, un.', what does un stand for? unofficial?
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13:45:52 <b_jonas> fizzie: *was* difficult to distinguish boundaries, until you fixed all my entries to end with a newline. now there's only "wisdom/rules of wisdom" and almost no other than doesn't have a newline terminator
13:47:08 <b_jonas> `perl -e $/=(); for $n (glob"wisdom/*") { open $f,"<",$n; if (<$f> !~ /\n\z/) { print "$n\n" } }
13:47:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/¯\(°_o) \ wisdom/¯\(°_o) \ wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_ \ wisdom/le \ wisdom/nak \ wisdom/output \ wisdom/rules of wisdom
13:47:31 <b_jonas> oh right, some of those are directories
13:47:41 <b_jonas> `perl -e $/=(); for $n (glob"wisdom/*") { if (open $f,"<",$n and <$f> !~ /\n\z/) { print "$n\n" } }
13:47:42 <HackEgo> wisdom/¯\(°_o) \ wisdom/¯\(°_o) \ wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_ \ wisdom/le \ wisdom/nak \ wisdom/output \ wisdom/rules of wisdom
13:52:40 <fizzie> b_jonas: Even with the " \ " in-between, I think it's still a little difficulter than with the formatting.
13:54:37 <b_jonas> `perl -e $/=(); for $n (glob"wisdom/*") { if (!-d $f and open $f,"<",$n and <$f> !~ /\n\z/) { print "$n\n" } }
13:55:30 <b_jonas> fizzie: can we fork the command then, so eg. bin/wisdom formats them but bin/wisdom doesn't? or something?
13:56:05 <b_jonas> `perl -e $/=(); for $n (glob"wisdom/*") { if (!-d $f and open($f,"<",$n) and <$f> !~ /\n\z/) { print "$n\n" } }
13:56:22 <b_jonas> `perl -e $/=(); for $n (glob"wisdom/*") { if (!-d $n and open($f,"<",$n) and <$f> !~ /\n\z/) { print "$n\n" } }
13:56:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/nak \ wisdom/output \ wisdom/rules of wisdom
13:56:44 <b_jonas> ``` ls -ld wisdom/nak wisdom/output
13:56:45 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Oct 28 2016 wisdom/nak \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Oct 28 2016 wisdom/output
13:57:08 <b_jonas> are those created by mistake?
13:57:23 <HackEgo> 5378:2015-05-31 <oerjän> ` cat /dev/null >wisdom/nak
13:57:28 <HackEgo> 5880:2015-08-02 <oerjän> revert \ 5879:2015-08-02 <oerjän> rm wisdom/output \ 3516:2013-08-28 <olsnër> touch wisdom/output
13:58:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: what are those for?
14:02:51 <fizzie> I think `? output - no output is a joke of sorts.
14:03:05 <fizzie> Not sure about "nak" though.
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14:04:47 <fizzie> Oh, that reminds me, I need to implement the "link to individual row" feature.
14:05:14 <fizzie> But http://esolangs.org/logs/2015-05-31.html 14:10:08 except it doesn't really make it any clearer.
14:05:41 <fizzie> It's about the ACK/NAK pair, but...
14:05:56 <b_jonas> fizzie: you mean, adding an id attribute to each irc line, plus a class for each nick so that people can ignore or highlight users by stylish
14:08:01 <fizzie> b_jonas: I didn't mean the latter, but I guess that would be possible. The former I did mean. Plus at least codu.org makes it so clicking on a nick adds the required #id in the current location.
14:08:39 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, I should eventually implement a feature where every .sclink-ar2 entry in my link collection has a stable id I can link to in my link collection pages http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/blu etc
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14:10:01 <b_jonas> fizzie: "makes it so clicking on a nick adds the required #id in the current location" => ah, the magic of relative hyperlinks. so <a id="p5I1SjDpPSY9XefcckmDCyW6mr3RTMAP0JbnvlVBFYhx" href="#p5I1SjDpPSY9XefcckmDCyW6mr3RTMAP0JbnvlVBFYhx">someNick</a>
14:10:32 <b_jonas> where p5I1SjDpPSY9XefcckmDCyW6mr3RTMAP0JbnvlVBFYhx is some stable unique ID that you generate from your archives somehow, I don't know how you're storing the logs so I don't know what the most convenient way is
14:10:49 <fizzie> The logs are fortunately strictly append-at-the-end-only, so a simple stable ID would just be (file, index) pair.
14:11:02 <b_jonas> could be cylinder-sector-head-byteoffset on your disk :-)
14:11:10 <fizzie> Or, rather, just the index, since the file is already part of the URL.
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14:11:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: would that work if you offer monthly or biweekly catenated pages too?
14:12:47 <fizzie> Think so. I mean, the index would just be from start of the catenated page, then. I don't think there are any circumstances I'd need to look up in which subfile it falls to, which would be a little awkward in that case.
14:12:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: note though that id values must begin with an ascii letter
14:13:09 <fizzie> Or just a prefix letter.
14:13:17 <b_jonas> it can be a letter followed by a number in decimal or hex
14:13:26 <b_jonas> https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-name
14:13:32 <fizzie> <a href="#foo"> is how I was thinking of trying to implement that clickability, but that's not what codu.org logs do.
14:13:51 <b_jonas> even base64 is possible because there are 66 available bytes
14:17:04 <fizzie> The codu logs use javascript to highlight the line matching the current hash (and also the clicking). I think that's doable with the :target pseudo-class nowadays.
14:21:07 <b_jonas> fizzie: thank you for working on the logs
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14:25:46 <fizzie> Full disclosure: mostly doing it because it's fun.
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20:29:35 * oerjan sighs at 15-year olds not knowing lexicographical ordering
20:30:02 <oerjan> (aka the Language list)
20:32:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international club for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
20:33:18 * oerjan snickers metaphorically
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21:29:47 <oerjan> fizzie: your logs don't seem to support /me
21:53:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/output: very short file (no magic)
22:05:08 <HackEgo> Usage: file [-bcEhikLlNnprsvz0] [--apple] [--mime-encoding] [--mime-type] \ [-e testname] [-F separator] [-f namefile] [-m magicfiles] file ... \ file -C [-m magicfiles] \ file [--help]
22:05:10 <int-e> `` echo a | file -
22:05:18 <int-e> `` echo ä | file -
22:05:19 <HackEgo> /dev/stdin: UTF-8 Unicode text
22:05:29 <int-e> `` echo -n ä | file -
22:05:30 <HackEgo> /dev/stdin: UTF-8 Unicode text, with no line terminators
22:05:41 <fungot> int-e: the simulator then slowly removes the mark, i might start on some other room and escape the noise?
22:05:55 <int-e> this is an excellent idea
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22:13:02 <fizzie> oerjan: I thought I did it, but I guess not.
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23:06:55 <lambdabot> CYUL 142200Z 25015G23KT 15SM FEW030 M15/M21 A2984 RMK CF1 CF TR SLP110
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23:27:21 <fizzie> oerjan: Added actions.
23:27:40 <fizzie> (And also combined full-month logs.)
23:32:22 <lambdabot> ENVA 142250Z 10008KT 9999 BKN023 M12/M14 Q0990 RMK WIND 670FT VRB02KT
23:32:37 <lambdabot> EGLL 142320Z AUTO 28009KT 9999 NCD 02/01 Q0990 NOSIG
23:33:12 <boily> hellørjan, fizziello.
23:33:17 <fizzie> They're predicting highs of +11 next wednesday.
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23:42:06 <boily> fizzie: that's disturbing.
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23:58:12 <fizzie> boily: Actually, +13, according to tabloid headlines.