< 1511309333 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1511309352 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like i have no work tmrw < 1511309376 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :last minute cancellations < 1511309493 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1511309501 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck :/ < 1511309555 0 :iovoid!?@? NICK :iovoid_ < 1511309562 0 :iovoid_!?@? NICK :iovoid < 1511309980 0 :sawyerschumacher!~sschumac@216.38.142.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511310157 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about you? < 1511310597 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1511310669 0 :sawyerschumacher!~sschumac@216.38.142.14 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1511310862 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1511310862 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 212350Z 10011KT CAVOK M10/M14 Q1011 RMK WIND 670FT 11007KT < 1511310865 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brrr < 1511310910 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1511310911 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... well, I understand the 'WIND' bit. And maybe the '670FT' bit. < 1511310919 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloerjan. < 1511310928 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellørjan. < 1511310940 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 212350Z bit is date and time < 1511310951 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Z=UTC) < 1511310992 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :M10/ is temperature, /M14 is dew point temperature (afaiu if they're close it's humid.) < 1511311005 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is pretty vague to me as well. < 1511311019 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1511311021 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(herroger9) < 1511311046 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ooh, nice one) < 1511311061 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan! < 1511311063 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relloger9! < 1511311085 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I am worked. I hate bureaucracy :D < 1511311105 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bureaucracy < 1511311107 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bureaucracy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1511311180 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a political system in which squirrels rule the nation, and burrow (aka bureau) their nuts. < 1511311334 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1511311349 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1511311434 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`# Stolen from Roger9//`learn Bureaucracy (from French bureau, "burrow") is a political system in which squirrels rule the nation, and burrow their nuts. < 1511311437 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'bureaucracy': Bureaucracy (from French bureau, "burrow") is a political system in which squirrels rule the nation, and burrow their nuts. < 1511311459 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol. < 1511311857 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1511311858 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 220000Z 15005KT 15SM SCT160 BKN240 05/M02 A2978 RMK AC4CI2 SLP087 < 1511311863 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely warm today. < 1511311947 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger9: where is your nearest airport? < 1511312152 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I have no idea. < 1511312282 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no airports at all where you live? < 1511312290 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or too many? < 1511312955 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not that into airports to be honest. < 1511313098 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1511313317 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1511313317 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 220050Z AUTO 23015KT 9999 BKN019 14/10 Q1004 < 1511313332 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said something about strangely warm? < 1511313348 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're saying it's going to be 16 tomorrow. < 1511313365 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then it'll go back to normal.) < 1511313613 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it's about -10 now but will go up to nearly +10 in a couple days < 1511313803 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1511313803 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 220053Z 31005KT 10SM FEW100 BKN180 17/13 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP186 T01670133 < 1511314119 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :im at wi < 1511314140 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :work and demoli is streaming :( < 1511314368 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf. you and your tropical weather :P < 1511314376 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what's a demoli? < 1511314392 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ksan < 1511314392 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSAN 220051Z 33004KT 10SM FEW200 FEW250 24/04 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP162 T02390044 $ < 1511314400 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar llbg < 1511314401 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLBG 220120Z 27013KT 9999 BKN045 17/07 Q1015 TEMPO -RA BKN030 < 1511314447 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you do you saint tropez? < 1511314447 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i guess, but you probably get banned for behaving like an asshole, and not for anything else < 1511314633 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Stop being coherent, it's weird. < 1511314633 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bindings from other programs? i have fnord) gold. :) < 1511314639 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's much better. < 1511314770 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :9😸 < 1511314772 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord > 9* < 1511314882 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziello, APHic. < 1511314909 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gesundheit. < 1511315236 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrbqdhkrrwqbjkwy JOIN :#esoteric < 1511316792 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :demoli is the best psychonauts speedrunner < 1511316874 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1511316878 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what sort of non-asshole behaviour would typically be considered banworthy < 1511316896 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Psychonauts speed runs interesting? < 1511316909 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they get all the figments? < 1511316923 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they do sometimes. < 1511317181 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511317465 0 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :banworthy from where? < 1511317542 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ban doesthiswork1 What a stupid question < 1511317958 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% does < 1511317966 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork1: places in general < 1511317967 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any% is awesome < 1511317975 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any% no flying < 1511317988 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, this is what 100% speedruns are normally for < 1511317991 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? < 1511317993 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making sure you collect everything collectable < 1511317999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any% lets you collect any proportion of it < 1511318001 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently for Psychonauts it's 101% speed runs. < 1511318018 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in some games that's 0% but in many games, collecting some proportion allows you to go faster) < 1511318027 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call it 100% or rank 101 < 1511318044 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This trick requires levitation. While in midair, press and hold 'Float' (default: Shift) to begin floating. Now, while still holding Float, rapidly alternate pressing 'Jump' (default: Spacebar) and the psi power key that you assigned levitate to (typically this is the 3rd slot). If you alternate fast enough, Raz will begin to rise slowly. This can be repeated indefinetly to reach any height, and skip ma < 1511318044 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are even a few games where any% = 100%, typically because the reward for collecting everything is so good it makes the rest of the game considerably faster < 1511318050 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ny parts of the game. If you alter your cadence, you can also use it to cover horizontal distance quickly." < 1511318053 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scow. < 1511318077 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is Psychonauts 2 coming out? < 1511318081 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it doesnt work on xbox or with vsync on < 1511318089 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :late 2018 < 1511318097 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really believe that? < 1511318126 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would bet against it. < 1511318254 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah? < 1511318268 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that legal in the US? < 1511318298 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have been meeting all their milestones so far. i think wed know in advance if it werent going to happen < 1511318822 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SONG CHICKEN < 1511318930 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1511318986 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would you pay for a contract that paid $100 if they release it on or before Dec 2019? < 1511320200 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511324350 0 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much are you offering for the option to purchase that contract for $50 on Jan 2020? < 1511324442 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds needlessly complicated. < 1511324496 0 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its under $49 I'll buy it < 1511325876 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pwphjypmudkxbcbi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1511326220 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds a bit derivative < 1511326792 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jcsbeoutgyymtfot JOIN :#esoteric < 1511329440 0 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1511331274 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511332363 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511333109 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net PART #esoteric : < 1511333136 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511333141 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net PART #esoteric : < 1511333261 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1511333945 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511334714 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1511334911 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1511336321 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511338517 0 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1511338548 0 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511340379 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is going on with all the /me? < 1511340426 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1511340442 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why did this show up in here * Sigyn sets modes [#freenode +qz $~a] < 1511340451 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my IRC client is bugging out and mixing up channels??? < 1511340467 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like it. < 1511340493 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well znc or hexchat might be messing up < 1511340542 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm something is very broken. Nothing happens on /join or /part of various channels < 1511340611 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1511340644 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarted the IRC client, lets see if it helps < 1511343266 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1511343321 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1511343387 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:496c:9af4:1022:ad79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511343402 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrbqdhkrrwqbjkwy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1511344859 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1511344937 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Zzo38/Untitled 114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53395&oldid=53388 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-16) 10Now the name is given. Will move < 1511344964 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Zzo38 5* 10moved [[02User:Zzo38/Untitled 110]] to [[Crement]]: Named by [[User:Ais523]] < 1511344965 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Zzo38 5* 10moved [[02User talk:Zzo38/Untitled 110]] to [[Talk:Crement]]: Named by [[User:Ais523]] < 1511346071 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511346204 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:496c:9af4:1022:ad79 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511347690 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:51dc:bcee:7d4c:5a3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511350044 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:51dc:bcee:7d4c:5a3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511354451 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1511355684 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511356388 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In M:tG, is the name of the "By Gnome Means" card https://media.wizards.com/2017/ust/en_xqPx77FNyw.png supposed to be something like Gnome Ann https://www.xkcd.com/1704/ ? < 1511359232 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511361343 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511361364 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1511363759 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1511364624 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XTW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53400&oldid=53391 5* 03Zseri 5* (+251) 10+local variables < 1511365160 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:ae29:3aff:fee8:b414 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511365161 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:ae29:3aff:fee8:b414 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511365167 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:a42f:3245:58cd:8b2a JOIN :#esoteric < 1511365831 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:a42f:3245:58cd:8b2a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511366890 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added support for local variables to XTW, because it was too complex to simulate them using nested objects. < 1511366902 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stacks. < 1511367020 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which are simulated using nested objects and local vars are then simulated using objects which save the state of every local var, which is complex, error-prone and confusing) < 1511368026 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: A concept I had in mind was 'first-class scopes': a scope would have a parent, map variable names to variable values, and the code would currently be running in the 'current scope'. < 1511368329 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :This first-class implementation would make supporting closures much easier. A function would have a parent scope (that refers to the current scope when the function was created), a list of parameters, and a block of code. The code would be run in a new scope, whose parent would be the function's creator scope, and would match the parameters to their arguments (along with maybe a return keyword to match to the caller's continuation). < 1511368354 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closures would simply be functions which access variables in their creator scope. < 1511368546 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511369149 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice idea < 1511369323 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could integrate this concept in XTW by mapping ::l::__ to the parent scope and so on like ::l::__::.. < 1511369410 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to keep track of special variables in the interpreter (in the symbol table, which maps variable name to numbers and uses them at runtime) < 1511369859 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1511369884 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511369888 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1511372060 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fekfqfzhzovvdkbv JOIN :#esoteric < 1511372338 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that one level (::l::__::var) is enough < 1511373358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511373358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host < 1511373358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511373465 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511373511 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511373544 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511373677 0 :sebbu2!?@? NICK :sebbu < 1511374137 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511374420 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511374644 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I resolve parent namespaces recursively < 1511374715 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE : I don't implement first-class scopes, but emulate that with dynamic resolved namespaces. < 1511374839 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1511375042 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511375146 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511375506 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :done. https://github.com/zserik/zxtw/blob/master/examples/lclparent.xtw (output: before: 1\nafter: 2\n) < 1511375795 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to emulate first-class scopes with dynamic namespace with resolving them partly at startup-time (before the interpreter builds the bytecode) and the rest done at runtime (could be done at startup-time too, I would just need to cache how many scopes to skip) < 1511375905 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of emulating first-class scopes with compose at scope-push and decompose at scope-pop (with dereferencing) < 1511375970 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespaces, as the man said, are one honking great idea < 1511376767 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :One disadvantage of the interpreter is that it suppports functions only at global scope (not inside a namespace) but a function name prefixed with a namespace. It supports namespace at global scope and inside functions < 1511378012 0 :Cale_!~cale@CPEd8eb97edd8f0-CM0026f39a59ad.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1511378061 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:9c21:c44b:240c:ed3 QUIT :Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel < 1511378300 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d174:b99a:2ef2:31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511378303 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d174:b99a:2ef2:31 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511381991 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511382019 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511383373 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1511383375 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D9D5.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1511383402 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511383764 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511383837 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511383908 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Ello, ais523. Having trouble with your connection or somethin'? < 1511383933 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically always have trouble with my connection < 1511383942 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why my default quit message apologises for it < 1511383949 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the rare cases where it's actually working, I override it manually) < 1511383961 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1511383971 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) < 1511384198 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511384271 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511384667 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger9: the weather here tonight is terrible (some amount of rain, and a huge amount of wind); that might have something to do with the connection's unreliability < 1511384679 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1511384827 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty bad even normally though < 1511385241 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511385263 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1511385684 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1511387741 0 :Cale_!~cale@CPEd8eb97edd8f0-CM0026f39a59ad.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511388199 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511388217 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511388233 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1511388325 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi wob_jonas < 1511388330 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looks like neither git nor mercurial currently supports partial checkouts, as in cloning parts of a large repository selected by pathnames without having to store the rest of the data on my disk or transfering it through hard disk. Svn supports this, although there are some limitations. < 1511388338 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a very important feature to me. < 1511388343 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it turns out Half-Squirrel Half-Pony actually got errata < 1511388363 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you happen to know that git or mercurial has gained ability to do this since I heard these info, then PLEASE tell me. < 1511388368 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't think the git/mercurial storage model is intended for repositories where that feature would be useful < 1511388391 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little about how a git repo works, and I'm quite sure that it should be possible to support this, it's just that the commands don't currently implement it. < 1511388393 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it happens I'm currently working on a new VCS (scapegoat-inspired but less innovative and thus more likely to be useful/used in practice) < 1511388406 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no, there'd be no way to create a new commit < 1511388413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the hash of that commit would involve the hash of all the files in other directories < 1511388423 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't have because you didn't check it out < 1511388444 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the hash of a tree is computed from just the hash of tree and file objects it contains < 1511388487 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I have a tree where some children aren't stored locally, their *hashes* would still be stored locally, so I can create a new version of that tree by copying those hashes (and names), and recompute the new hash for it < 1511388495 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is for git, I don't know about mercurial < 1511388497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the big idea behind scapegoat anyway < 1511388512 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511388528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't care about vcs at all back when it was a thing but i've learned git since < 1511388554 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: basically, the /original/ big idea was that each line would have a record of where it came from, meaning that merges could be implemented safely with less context in the files themselves < 1511388556 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still think it is likely possible to extend svn to a distributed vcs, and this would have some advantages: (1) it could be compatible with existing svn servers and repositories, that is, I could pull from a remote repo without that repo knowing anything about the distributed extension, < 1511388558 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and likewise, unsafe merges could easily be detected) < 1511388575 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: how would you handle commit numbers? < 1511388583 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) svn already handles the storage of objects and delta compression for you, which you can definitely reuse, and you can probably resuse its diff and merge tools as well < 1511388643 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought svn was famously bad at merging? or was that a different VCS? < 1511388673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was older versions of svn < 1511388673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: versions before 1.5 or 1.6 or something < 1511388673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they solved it since < 1511388680 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1511388736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the problem I've come up across, which is leading me to think a new VCS is really needed < 1511388748 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a scenario where two related forks of a project exist that want to share some code, but not all of it < 1511388760 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically I'd have branches in the local repo that track the remote repo, and you can't commit into them directly, just like in git. the extension would pull into them, and store the correspondence with remote objects (with path and version number in remote repo), technically stored in svn properties < 1511388764 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is obviously the case in the whole NetHack variants situation, but I can't imagine that's the only place where it happens) < 1511388784 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so you're basically trying to use svn branches like git branches, which are like git remotes? < 1511388793 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem completely nonviable < 1511388842 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: svn already lets you have a read-only mirror or a dump-restore of a repository with only parts of the repo included, and can omit commits that don't modify the parts kept, thus skewing commit numbers. it has tools for this. what it can't do is pushing back, which I admit is a MUCH harder problem. < 1511388848 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1511388910 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… in the VCS I'm working on, you could check out a single directory but only if no commits had been made to that directory and to a file outside that directory at the same time < 1511388923 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. the idea behind that is that this way you can use such a branch for any read-only operation that svn already supports, such as childing or merging from it. the extension would have to map parents and mergeinfo in a tricky way. < 1511388926 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that interact with your usecase for checking out a single directory? < 1511388931 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what is the reason, incidentally?) < 1511388942 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1511388942 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 222150Z AUTO 20020KT 9999 SCT026 BKN031 15/10 Q0990 TEMPO RA < 1511388956 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGBB < 1511388956 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGBB 222150Z 20020G34KT 160V220 9999 SCT023 SCT043 14/10 Q0983 < 1511388974 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't understand your question < 1511388987 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're having some "G"s as well, even if it's not listed. < 1511388989 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, you want to check out a single directory from a repo < 1511389006 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking why, because that influences what implementation techniques a VCS could use for that < 1511389133 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if a VCS supported checking out a single directory but had limitations, would the limitations affect you? < 1511389201 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, they'd affect me. more like I want to clone and fetch a single directory, or more generally any set of objects, from a remote repo, and I want to be able to unfetch (delete local copy) any object, fetch new objects, and modify what will be fetched later (set paths to automatically fetch new children or not). < 1511389209 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know that supporting this in full generality is difficult: < 1511389245 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm still interested in what's in this repository? < 1511389258 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's especially difficult if I want to fetch an object that is the parent of an object that was already fetched, because to do that with the svn representation, I have to recreate the local version of all the descendant objects as new vanilla svn objects. < 1511389263 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still possible, but difficult. < 1511389301 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by parent/child here? < 1511389376 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in git, every commit has usually one but generally any number of parents, which are earlier versions of the commit. in svn, commits don't have that, but each directory/file version has one (or sometimes zero) parent which is the immediate previous version of that object, and can be at any path as long as it's in an earlier commit, < 1511389411 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zero or more additional objects marked as extra ancestors merged into it. (there's also the restriction that directory and non-directory objects can't be mixed in parental relationship) < 1511389438 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so svn tracks moves or copies of individual files or directories. < 1511389443 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "earlier versions of the commit" isn't a way to describe it, really < 1511389446 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know what parent are in git < 1511389462 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wasn't sure that was the terminology you were using < 1511389516 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an svn working tree (checkout) can already be partial, it has local copy of usually just the latest versions of objects, but it can mix-match any local path in the checkout with any path-version in the remote repo, and stores pristine copies of each of those files < 1511389572 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can switch any local path to point to any path-version of the remote repo, set them to automatically check out new files in a checked out directory or not, and update paths to later versions of the same path easily < 1511389616 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's some limitations, some obvious because only directories can have files or directories in them, some apparently just limitation of the programs about what you can modify, and some limitation about subrepositories which are like git modules) < 1511389673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so anyway, about your main question about why partial checkouts are useful for me < 1511389729 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as long as you're always connected to a single writable central svn server (there can be any number of read-only mirrors, but no read-write ones), you can conveniently use svn to store big files or big directory trees. < 1511389766 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these aren't source code, but dependencies (possibly binary) that you often want to check out together with the rest of the project to build the project, or data, or whatever < 1511389772 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also store multiple projects together < 1511389783 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn partial checkouts make this easy < 1511389793 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1511389797 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing multiple projects together is in general a bad idea because there's no obvious advantage over doing it separately < 1511389816 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, what I'm working on /would/ be able to handle that if nobody ever committed to both projects in the same commit < 1511389821 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can replace an entire binary dependency with a new version, such that their difference doesn't compress well, and only the server will have to store older versions < 1511389838 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for binary dependencies, would it be OK to store the hashes of all those dependencies? just not download the dependencies themselves? < 1511389857 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to store multiple projects together because one project can want to pull part of the code of another project, without making full dependency, and then want to merge bugfixes from them < 1511389863 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it would be, because the number of files involved is still manageable, it's just the files themselves that are too large < 1511389892 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: often you want to download the big binary dependency, but not all previous versions of that dependency. < 1511389901 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes you only want to download some of the dependencies, because they're big. < 1511389904 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most VCSes can do that already, including git < 1511389912 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, download only the most recent version < 1511389930 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think git can do that only on a full repo. you could try to store deps in git submodules < 1511389930 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I've not read the context here, but we have this thing called https://bitbucket.org/Google/narrowhg that sounded like plausibly relevant. < 1511389959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, git needs the most recent version of each file < 1511389969 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not just that < 1511389991 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but also you can't get full history of some files, but only latest version of other files, within the same git repo < 1511389997 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible, but isn't with current tools < 1511390010 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's just a UI problem I think? < 1511390020 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the UI doesn't give any easy way to do that < 1511390029 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, which is why I'm asking if git has solved this since < 1511390038 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they've already solved multiple worktrees (checkouts) with only one object storage < 1511390053 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another thing though is that even without partial checkouts, I would want a distributed version of svn < 1511390069 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way to go in terms of implementing this would be a lazy repository in which objects are retrieved only when their content is requested, and only directly to the filesystem < 1511390071 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to work online < 1511390079 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it means that no more would be downloaded than actually necessary < 1511390097 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: two things you could do with a distributed version are (a) maintaining a forked project of a project where I never push back because they don't like me, but I can pull newer versions of that original project and merge into mine < 1511390127 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (b) committing revisions locally while I don't have access to the central writable server because no network connection or something < 1511390142 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even committing local branches that I don't want to share until I clean them up < 1511390157 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do all these things in git, < 1511390207 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want svn in particular for that? because the people-who-don't-like-you happen to be using svn and you can't persuade them to change? < 1511390209 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: For your case (a), I was using a thing where I had git and SVN share a checkout. < 1511390209 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't incompatible with pulling from a central server, and in (b) you can push some or all of your commits to the central server later, while each repo has an immutable history < 1511390231 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but git-svn works very well for both those cases < 1511390326 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I understand correctly, in git-svn the local branches and commits are git branches and commits. I like svn and the way it handles files and renames and stuff, and don't want to lose that. but yes, that's a good point, git-svn may help with some of the model, especially if you already like git < 1511390377 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what git-svn basically does is to create a git remote that mirrors a given branch of an svn repository, I think < 1511390387 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can also commit to the branch < 1511390393 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you have a linear history < 1511390418 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the git-svn equivalent of git pull is git svn rebase, in order to ensure that the history stays linear; it pulls the remote changes then rebases your local changes on top) < 1511390445 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and it's the commit back part with proper tracking of ancestry and merges that's hard. we already have tools to read-only mirror part of a remote svn repository to a local svn repo. < 1511390577 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the moment you want to push back, you have to figure out how to set all the parent and mergeinfo for the new objects in the remote repo. < 1511390578 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the earlier discussion fork, narrowhg lets you have a shallow copy of all files and a deep history (optionally up to N revisions) of some specific subset of files, though (IIUC) you can't have different depths for the not-entirely-shallow files. < 1511390614 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: let me look at that. can you also have no versions at all of some paths? < 1511390694 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to briefly mention other version control systems. (1) cvs can do partial checkouts, but I think svn can already do anything that cvs can do, and cvs hasn't gained new features for like a decade, so it's safe to discard it except for compatibility, < 1511390702 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I forgot. Maybe it was actually more limited than that, and you actually could only get either files (up to depth N) or no files at all, but not shallow copies of everything. < 1511390748 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what about rcs? :-P < 1511390757 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) darcs is like developped by some alien race and I didn't understand anything they say about how their vcs works, and (3) fossil now lets you create forks of a read-only repository and merge to it from the remote, sort of like private branches, but I believe it doesn't do partial checkouts, < 1511390763 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has probably been done before, but I'm messing around with a hypothetical language that compiles into BF. < 1511390765 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4) I didn't look at bazaar at all. < 1511390811 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in RCS you're supposed to work directly on the machine holding the repository, the "check out" operation is more like a locking operation) < 1511390817 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think rcs is something that used to count as a "version control system" back when it was created, but doesn't count as one in the modern sense. or something. < 1511390828 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it's a non-concurrent VCS < 1511390837 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, something like that. < 1511390851 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does control versions, it just doesn't control access in any but the crudest way < 1511390869 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have one repo per file, checking out the repo locks the file, then checking the repo back in will unlock the file and record a commit) < 1511390879 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this is probably where the terms checkout/checkin come from < 1511390889 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they make no sense in the context of something like cvs or git < 1511390976 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and "commit" is cleverly chosen so that the "cvs ci" abbreviated command would sound like either "commit" or "checkin", depending on whether you're a new cvs user or someone used to rcs < 1511390996 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because cvs was originally designed as a better rcs, but later got important in itself, < 1511391025 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like how svn was originally a better cvs, but these days it develops on its own without regard to cvs, < 1511391046 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both rcs and cvs are probably not developed further with new features, and cvs hasn't even had a new release for several years < 1511391096 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, no new release for several years is fine for a mature tool if there aren't important bugs, I had no problem with no how the 7z compressor utility with windows GUI hasn't had a new release for like six years < 1511391165 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so wait, you said you're developing a new version control system that isn't scapegoat. do you wish to tell a bit more about this? < 1511391195 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you only say you're planning this new system? < 1511391218 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently at the stage of a) planning, b) learning enough git internals to be able to write an importer < 1511391239 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to use git as the backend in order to get a lot of functionality for free and take advantage of things like public git hosting sitse < 1511391241 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sites < 1511391252 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because git was intended to be a VCS backend rather than a VCS itself < 1511391301 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Half-Squirrel Half-Pony actually got errata" wait what? I haven't read the setFAQ yet < 1511391330 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really disappointed in it < 1511391352 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because with many cards, how they're meant to work, and how the FAQ says they work, is different from what you'd assume based on the wording of the card < 1511391368 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a big departure from the "cards mean what they say" that you normally get on black-bordered cards < 1511391389 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the templating team ran away from the set < 1511391436 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my take on that is that MaRo is really bad at rules, he should never have been allowed to be even the un-rules manager, and we should just ignore everything he says about un-rulings and make up our own rules that make sense < 1511391460 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1511391473 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even for unhinged, many of his rulings make no sense. for unstable, there's much more cards that would work in black-bordered, and he's publishing a lot of rulings about them. < 1511391477 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says something that the half-squirrel half-pony errata was done by eli shiffrin (i.e. the /real/ rules manager) < 1511391486 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll read them for flavor, but I'll not try to take them as meaningful rulings. < 1511391504 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says he was really surprised that the errata actually works in black border, because it inspects a property of the card that no current card inspects < 1511391540 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where's this errata? is it in MaRo's FAQ? < 1511391551 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere else? < 1511391553 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, but the metadiscussion about it happened on the Reddit thread about the FAQ < 1511391565 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly about the erratum itself < 1511391588 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, the discussion for future errata used to happen in the old-style web forum that wizards maintained, until they closed it < 1511391593 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even one comp rules modification that I promoted < 1511391599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/promoted/prompted/ < 1511391698 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511391794 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reading article) WHAT? that's not even what the card says. < 1511391916 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: which card in particular? < 1511391931 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! So those red creatures on the packaging are beebles! < 1511391956 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't recognize them. Beebles used to be of a more rounded shape and less red. < 1511391967 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Better The One < 1511392000 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ordered a supervillian laptop < 1511392042 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloren\ < 1511392052 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a supervillian laptop mean? < 1511392073 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP9175.html < 1511392112 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :means it will probably double as a haridryer < 1511392115 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hmm, which part of Better Than One surprised you? the fact that you have a shared life total? < 1511392141 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the fact that you get attacked as a team, probably < 1511392144 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that, and that it uses the rules for two-headed giant in general, not the default rules < 1511392150 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the card makes it look more like traditional multiplayer than 2HG < 1511392198 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: mind you, I ordered a new copy of my heavy clicky keyboard (after ruining mine by spilling tea on it), and it's branded "Demon King". not quite a "supervillian", but still an antagonist. < 1511392235 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1511392274 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the augment and especially the contraption rules are also a bit strange, but at least there there's clearly a new keyword or supertype where the rules have to be decided, not just a plain card where you don't expect strange rules < 1511392302 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functional reprints of black-bordered cards are also surprising < 1511392311 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the card costing 4GG with trample and no other abilities < 1511392333 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a card like that need a silver border? < 1511392353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, it doesn't have any silly stuff on its typeline or the like, either) < 1511392576 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wob_jonas that keyboard doesn't glow < 1511392589 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I don't want a glowing one < 1511392599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the point of a glowing keyboard < 1511392635 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: You can indicate the status of different things (like passing builds) by differently glowing keys. < 1511392654 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Sager == Clevo, right? < 1511392657 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the whole set released now? < 1511392670 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have a monitor for indicating things < 1511392693 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the most obvious reason for glowing keys for me would be to easily place my hands on the keyboard when I'm working in near-total darkness < 1511392696 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm looking at the monitor a lot, but not much at the keyboard < 1511392698 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems the whole set is revealed now < 1511392705 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look at what it says < 1511392715 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are indents on the F and J (and numpad 5) on most keyboards but they're often very subtle and hard to find < 1511392753 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so normally I either switch to a window with a white background, getting more illumination from the screen, or else move to a text boxt that accepts input and experimentally type a few letters to determine where my hands are < 1511392764 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want to work in near-total darkness, because it hurts my eyes to look at a screen when the environment is too dark. I know there are people who this doesn't bother. < 1511392769 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an illuminated keyboard would be a more direct fix to the problem < 1511392785 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: eyestrains caused by looking at something that's dimmer / harder to make out than the surrounding environment < 1511392798 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: both < 1511392801 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so darkness around the computer should in theory be the optimum for avoiding eyestrain < 1511392816 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eyes are also hurt by focusing continuously at the same range for a long period of time < 1511392821 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that's not true. the problem is that if the environment is dark, your pupils extend too much < 1511392833 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the only thing you can see is your nearby screen, you have problems with that < 1511392838 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, I try to make the screen very dark too < 1511392845 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimum brightness and black backgrounds almost everywhere < 1511392998 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. Eager Beaver? how does green get an untap ability that works on any type of permanent? that doesn't make sense color-wise. < 1511393019 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue or rarely white can get that ability, green shouldn't < 1511393037 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :green always used to be able to untap, I think? < 1511393042 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1511393047 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is able to untap lands < 1511393047 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in old Magic < 1511393055 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they moved away from that into just untapping lands < 1511393055 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is already hard to balance, mind you) < 1511393061 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :example? < 1511393061 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :white can untap creatures, can it untap anything else? < 1511393076 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably only creatures, I think < 1511393078 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: can't remember any offhand < 1511393090 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cards which mess around with mass untapping tend to be UG nowadays < 1511393096 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the blue high flier a reprint? < 1511393120 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I don't remember seeing it in the list of functional reprints but I didn't memorise the list in detail < 1511393124 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UG would be fine. but beaver is pure green. < 1511393128 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1511393145 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll search < 1511393187 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dimensions: 16.46" (w) x 11.63" (d) x 1.61" (h) < 1511393190 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1511393205 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it even make sense to say which dimension is which? < 1511393218 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, isn't which dimension is which determined by their relative sizes rather than vice versa? < 1511393234 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well it's certainly inferrable < 1511393234 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can make sense for some types of objects < 1511393254 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones that have fixed elements on a certain side < 1511393269 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even a hypothetical laptop could well have d > w. < 1511393283 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/even/ < 1511393285 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.6 lbs (3.9 kg) < 1511393287 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like a washing machine would have its door on either the front, or the top and open backwards, so it helps to know which is the depth and which is the width < 1511393296 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: similarly with an oven < 1511393303 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/ \/\// < 1511393311 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're assuming that the hinge is on the boundary between the wide and high sides < 1511393325 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's any more valid an assumption than that the wide side is longer than the deep side < 1511393341 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think I'm assuming that. < 1511393343 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the distinction between wide and deep here is the orientation of the keyboard, though? < 1511393357 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming width is the axis the spacebar is congruent to. < 1511393363 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1511393380 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a laptop could have a portrait display < 1511393400 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of such thing, but it could... < 1511393400 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the hinge doesn't have to be close to the edge. older laptops have a screen narrower than the base part, and a large battery part behind the hinge in the base part. < 1511393414 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least one much-advertised laptop has no hinge at all < 1511393427 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen component is entirely separate from the keyboard component < 1511393448 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that helps prevent it breaking, the hinge tends to be the most fragile part of a laptop… < 1511393496 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm going to see if anywhere round here sells water at 11:30pm < 1511393500 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1511393506 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I'd be home this late, but the water supply is under maintenance < 1511393507 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now we know what the mythic vanilla is. tricky. < 1511393525 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, what if you had a cube-shaped computer where the top of the cube hinges up to become a square screen < 1511393527 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm at work, and am not sure how easy it'll be to get something to drink < 1511393533 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye for now < 1511393535 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1511393548 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that even count as a 'laptop' < 1511393568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511393574 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. bye, ais523 < 1511393658 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or wait. suppose instead you just have a cube with a display on one side and a keyboard that slides out of the space under the screen < 1511393675 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that isn't a laptop < 1511393712 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: no sliding, but very old "portable" computers in the 80s were mostly big cubes, with most of the space being taken up by a CRT, and there's a keyboard plus floppy drive that extends from below the CRT part < 1511393737 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, before even laptops got LCDs < 1511393783 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think rarely really literally cubical, more rectangular cuboids. < 1511393795 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_Portable_PC_5155_-_Retrosystems_2010.jpg < 1511393803 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this one actually has an ordinary keyboard connected by cable < 1511393817 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and some of them have the front side slanted < 1511393867 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ibm5100_(2297950254).jpg this I think has a hinged keyboard in fact < 1511393923 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and we've done a full circle, because apparently many people nowadays are agent content to work with such tiny screens, it's just that the rest of the computer got lighter) < 1511393931 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: whoa APL < 1511394069 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. why are Prowling Pangolin and the new Bumbling Pangolin subtyped Beast? isn't wizards using that only for mythical animals, not cards based on real animals? < 1511394174 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :prowling pangolin--the mobile version of Ubuntu 12.04? < 1511394206 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit less precise, but it gets around more < 1511394364 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, still M:tG < 1511394371 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1511394601 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they made a second card whose name starts with a quotation mark < 1511394978 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1511395075 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nice! < 1511395086 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knight of the Kitchen Sink is an actually nice silver-bordered card < 1511395102 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one you couldn't do in black border, but also has clean rules