< 1510617978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510619318 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1510619476 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510619835 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2620:101:80fb:232:64c1:3980:c173:d8d6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1510619872 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1510620749 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510620775 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1510621642 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1510621938 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510622230 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1510623218 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1510623405 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1510624087 0 :webchat191!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510624112 0 :webchat191!?@? NICK :Downgoat < 1510624170 0 :Downgoat_!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510624189 0 :Downgoat_!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1510624333 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510624345 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Downgoat, Downgoat_ < 1510624350 0 :Downgoat_!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1510624360 0 :Downgoat_!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I IRCd incorrcetly which is why they are two downgoat :| < 1510624367 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from connecting twice you seem to have done everything correctly < 1510624383 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other one's a ghost by the look of things, it'll probably time out in a couple of minutes < 1510624389 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi Downgoat_ < 1510624389 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Downgoat_. Howngoat_. < 1510624410 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downgoat's a regular at PPCG, they're apparently discussing making a new golfing site too and are much further on than we are < 1510624421 0 :Downgoat_!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are most people here on PPCG? < 1510624429 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510624435 0 :Downgoat_!?@? NICK :Downgoat < 1510624441 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, only a few of us are < 1510624447 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not on PPCG but I like code golf. < 1510624464 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :code golf is fairly popular here because there's a lot of overlap, but few people here actually golf regularly < 1510624473 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1510624484 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I look at PPCG and have a go at a question if it looks sufficiently interesting, but (after deleting my account) I've only posted once < 1510624491 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well our current code is hosted on GH here: https://github.com/Mego/PPCG-v2 < 1510624498 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the site works so much better when it's not trying to force you to get rep < 1510624508 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for those who use stackexchange we have a chat here: https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/68212/ppcg-v2 < 1510624524 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have auth, posts, markdown rendering, and we're working on other stuff < 1510624544 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't really have a plan on what things we actually want so that's still for desciding < 1510624563 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some sort of automatic program runner/verifier is one of the features that a) golf sites most benefit from and b) PPCG doesn't have, although you can't use it in all contexts < 1510624590 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. if we're all familar with TIO, we're planning on using that heavily < 1510624596 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you think a golf site should address nondeterminism like $$? < 1510624609 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagolf's latest solution fixes that pretty neatly < 1510624611 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean in markdown? < 1510624624 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow anyone to re-mark the program, it gets removed from the leaderboards if it's "magically" stopped working < 1510624642 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the program has to work consistently. < 1510624648 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also means that in questions where your program is meant to work for all inputs, you can use the recheck request to submit a counterexample; that doesn't work in anagolf because it has a fairly primitive marking system < 1510624663 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder whether people have used programs that rely on the current date. < 1510624678 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :under PPCG rules your program would have to work consistently too (because requiring a particular $$ would count as an illegal form of input) < 1510624711 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a program that only works in the 21st century? < 1510624717 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: on the original code golfing site, which predated anagolf and collapsed due to not having questions very often, someone used time() as a magic number once < 1510624763 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you're going to write a program in http://esolangs.org/wiki/2014 or something like that, having the recheck link not work is not really a huge issue < 1510624787 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2014 < 1510624787 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi < 1510624792 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's what that's about. < 1510624794 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think having something like a "disputed" or even "invalid" tag that people can vote onto or off the post would be worthwhile, in cases where it's unclear whether the program complies with the rules < 1510624849 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, I see a big loophole in that implementation < 1510624855 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have just hardcoded the "2014" < 1510624898 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2015 < 1510624898 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi < 1510624904 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l bin/201{4,5} < 1510624905 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 79 Oct 28 2016 bin/2014 \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 80 Oct 28 2016 bin/2015 < 1510624909 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1510624917 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl 'system "bin/2014" "2017"' < 1510624918 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "'system "bin/2014" "2017"'": No such file or directory < 1510624924 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e 'system "bin/2014" "2017"' < 1510624925 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510624928 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e system "bin/2014" "2017" < 1510624929 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :String found where operator expected at -e line 1, near ""bin/2014" "2017"" \ (Missing operator before "2017"?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near ""bin/2014" "2017"" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1510624931 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/2014 < 1510624937 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5227:2015-01-02 sed -i \'s/2014/$(basename "$0")/\' bin/2014 \ 5219:2014-12-31 ` chmod +x bin/2014 \ 5218:2014-12-31 ` echo "fi" >> bin/2014 \ 5217:2014-12-31 ` echo "then echo \\"Hello, world!\\"" >> bin/2014 \ 5216:2014-12-31 ` echo "if [ \\$(date +%Y) = \\"2014\\" ]" >> bin/2014 \ 5215:2014-12-3 < 1510624942 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/2015 < 1510624943 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't even know we were discussing making a golfing site. < 1510624948 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6472:2015-12-31 revert \ 6471:2015-12-31 ` sed -i s/!// bin/2015 \ 5231:2015-01-02 ` cp bin/201{4,5}; sed -i \'s/=/!=/\' bin/2015 \ 5230:2015-01-02 rm bin/2015 \ 5229:2015-01-02 ` ln bin/2014 bin/2015 \ 5228:2015-01-02 rm bin/2015 \ 5226:2015-01-02 ` cp bin/201{4,5}; sed < 1510624955 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we did a couple of times, I'm not sure if you were there at the time < 1510624962 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think we were mostly discussing how we wouldn't do it. < 1510624969 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shachaf said. < 1510624977 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You participated saying you wouldn't do it, if I remember correctly. < 1510624988 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though I don't think ais523 was here at *that* time. < 1510625022 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e system {"bin/2014"} "2017" < 1510625023 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625032 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your code golf site going to support multiple metrics to optimize? < 1510625035 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I finally got the right syntax, but it still doesn't work? probably the path is wrong < 1510625042 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e system {"bin/2014"} "2017" or die $@ < 1510625043 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Died at -e line 1. < 1510625046 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e system {"bin/2014"} "2017" or die $! < 1510625047 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Died at -e line 1. < 1510625056 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e system {"bin/2014"} "2017" or die $? < 1510625056 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can measure things other than program length. < 1510625057 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 at -e line 1. < 1510625066 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Perl, now you're just screwing with me < 1510625075 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e print system {"bin/2014"} "2017" < 1510625076 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1510625107 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` basename "2017" < 1510625108 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2017 < 1510625125 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is normally the point at which I'd attach a debugger but that's kind-of hard in HackEgo < 1510625184 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc execl("bin/2014", "2017", NULL); < 1510625185 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625197 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e print system {"bin/nonexistent-executable"} "2017" < 1510625198 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1 < 1510625210 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it is finding the executable < 1510625215 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e print system {"bin/2014"} "bin/2017" < 1510625216 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1510625238 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $'#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nprint sys.argv\n' > tmp/args && chmod +x tmp/args < 1510625239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625246 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc execl("tmp/args", "2017", NULL); < 1510625247 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625252 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc execl("/hackenv/tmp/args", "2017", NULL); < 1510625253 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625266 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tmp/args abc < 1510625267 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['/hackenv/tmp/args', 'abc'] < 1510625295 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e print system {"pwd"} "pwd" < 1510625295 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv \ 0 < 1510625303 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet nitpicking opportunity: that should be (char *)NULL. < 1510625320 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx tdh < 1510625325 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :niwh < 1510625334 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I misread "Pet" as "Perl", and tried to figure out how that could possibly hep < 1510625335 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? niwh < 1510625336 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :niwh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1510625336 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*help < 1510625340 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't helpful < 1510625341 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1510625353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downgoat: as you can see, this channel tends to get sidetracked fairly easily < 1510625381 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc execl("/bin/ls", "/bin/ls", (char *)NULL); < 1510625382 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625382 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The intention was "no, it wouldn't help", I think. < 1510625407 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe you can use your C lawyer skills to figure out what's going wrong there? < 1510625430 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idk I lost track like 10 minutes ago < 1510625438 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no automatic main wrapping or any other fancitude with `runc. < 1510625445 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1510625454 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be thinking of another command or another bot. < 1510625456 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc #include \n int main(void) execl("/bin/ls", "/bin/ls", (char *)NULL); } < 1510625457 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625459 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1510625464 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I missed a {. < 1510625469 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc #include \n int main(void) { execl("/bin/ls", "/bin/ls", (char *)NULL); } < 1510625472 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom < 1510625477 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to carry on. < 1510625493 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc #include \n int main(void) { execl("bin/2014", "2017", (char *)NULL); } < 1510625494 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625503 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc #include \n int main(void) { execl("tmp/args", "2017", (char *)NULL); } < 1510625503 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['tmp/args'] < 1510625519 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the current bin/2014 wouldn't work even in 2014? < 1510625526 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`date +%Y < 1510625527 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2017 < 1510625550 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2015 < 1510625551 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1510625559 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that implies it's probably working < 1510625563 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's because it's Python, isn't it. < 1510625595 0 :bridger!~water@2405:204:51a2:890c:791a:9563:1920:6cf9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510625629 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1510625646 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the Python interpreter is doing something to mess up argv[0] < 1510625671 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $'#include \nint main(int argc, char **argv) { while (*argv) { puts(*argv++); } }\n' > /tmp/args.c && gcc -o tmp/args /tmp/args.c < 1510625672 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510625687 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc #include \n int main(void) { execl("tmp/args", "2017", (char *)NULL); } < 1510625687 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2017 < 1510625691 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better. < 1510625715 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/2014 < 1510625715 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi < 1510625723 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If bash is invoked with a file of commands, $0 is set to the name of that file." < 1510625735 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I was about to make a shell script to test that behavior. < 1510625743 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aha < 1510625747 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might apply also if it's invoked "with a file of commands" via "#!". < 1510625752 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it would I thiink < 1510625754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1510625797 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What would be interesting to optimize other than byte count? < 1510625807 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed and memory usage are a bit passé < 1510625849 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the most interesting non-pure-golf problems are either optimizing some property of the source related but not identical to bytecount (number of unique characters is a common one, typically won by Unary or Lenguage) < 1510625881 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and challenges where your program has to work in as many ways as possible (e.g. run in as many languages as possible), often with a size limit or hybrid scoring < 1510625886 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :radiation-hardening is fun too but kind-of niche < 1510625888 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I expected you to say "optimising" < 1510625905 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've completely given up on -ise versus -ize < 1510625914 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radiation-hardening sounds like fun. < 1510625921 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I don't know which one's meant to be British English and which one's meant to be American English < 1510625925 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they're both both, or what < 1510625931 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody seems to know or care any more < 1510625941 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's mostly only a problem when it comes to naming identifiers, because you have to be consistent < 1510626386 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510626952 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I just realised that I can hear my spam filter working < 1510626971 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard some sounds from the hard disk and thought "huh, I must have received an email" < 1510626976 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the notification popped up a few seconds later < 1510627072 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your hard disk still makes sounds? < 1510627078 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how quaint < 1510627115 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about rotational hard drives is that you can get a huge amount of storage for a small price < 1510627977 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510628201 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I was reading HMRC guidance, and it seems to me that esolangs.org would fall under the "charitable purposes" category. < 1510628240 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510628254 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The thing about HMRC-recognised charities is, donations to them are eligible for a thing called Gift Aid.) < 1510628278 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it has to be explicitly registered as a charity, IIRC < 1510628287 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably comes with a number of legal requirements < 1510628312 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could probably make the case that it's a charity, but the legal overhead for actually setting it up might well be too great < 1510628338 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about your employer's donation matching? < 1510628375 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to register with the Commission unless the yearly income of the charity exceeds £5000, or it's structured as a company. < 1510628386 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think gift aid would only be helpful from brits < 1510628407 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would need to apply for recognition from HMRC, but that seemed more lightweight. < 1510628411 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the point is that you're donating part of your income to charity, so the government "matches" that with the tax revenue from the same amount of income < 1510628428 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that implies that the income had british tax paid on it in the first place < 1510628500 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I was mostly thinking about my own donations. < 1510628570 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To be a charitable aim for the public benefit, education must be capable of being ‘advanced’. This means to promote, sustain and increase individual and collective knowledge and understanding of specific areas of study, skills and expertise. -- The types of charities that are capable of advancing education include: information media such as the internet, --" < 1510628701 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some bit about how it shouldn't benefit a "narrow group" (but I don't think that was meant to rule out things most people simply aren't interested in), and a bunch of restrictions of what a charity can do. < 1510629268 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.gov.uk/setting-up-charity/structures -- the last two don't have a corporate structure (so can't e.g. employ people or enter contracts, and the trustees keep personal responsibility), but as far as I can tell are still eligible for HMRC recognition. < 1510629456 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1510629550 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to be fair, while the wiki might qualify, fitting something like HackEgo under the "charitable purposes" label would be a bit of a stretch. < 1510629686 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: For that, I would need to nominate the organisation first. < 1510629743 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it would be eligible per the guidelines.) < 1510629818 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, another thing I've not been able to find out is the minimum number of trustees. (They need to be "fit and proper", to boot.) < 1510630256 0 :bridger!~water@2405:204:51a2:890c:791a:9563:1920:6cf9 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1510630458 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to choose a name for the organization. fhtagn makes an excellent acronym < 1510630494 0 :watered!~water@157.49.5.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510630633 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510631325 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would voting on posts/questions be a good idea? < 1510631372 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downgoat: well some questions are better than others, but the voting tends not to work out that well at PPCG < 1510631390 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally questions get upvoted if they're easy, and although that's a popular type of question, it's not one that's universally liked < 1510631399 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it'd be better to have voting on categories rather than a single vote < 1510631419 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, maybe you upvote a tag really high on a question if you think the question is really interesting to people who like that tag < 1510631576 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of my two highest-upvoted questions, one is really good, the other fairly dubious, and I can't remember offhand which is higher < 1510631618 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one's at 171, bad one at 89 < 1510631624 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least the votes worked in that case < 1510631627 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took a while, though! < 1510631707 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw do you have any reccomendations on how question could be categorized beyond tags < 1510631713 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have read somewhere (I don't know if I remembered correctly?) that "-ize" is American (and I think also Canadian), while both "-ise" and "-ize" is British. I am not sure though. < 1510631732 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen it advertized < 1510631733 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downgoat: ideally it'd help people find the sort of questions they wanted, which is based on solution techniques < 1510631759 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that can be very hard to figure out in advance < 1510631762 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there might not be a good solution < 1510631789 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can often guess in advance whether a winning solution is more algorithmic, more declarative, or more about microgolfing, though < 1510631805 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe like 'bookmark' or 'star' posts you personally want to reference < 1510631815 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also [kolmogorov-complexity] which is very different from the rest of golfing, but it's already self-contained enough as it is) < 1510631826 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SE has a starring feature already, I (surprisingly!) have no problem with it < 1510631835 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only on Qs though < 1510631837 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is kolmogolf different from other golf? < 1510631847 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "advertise" is "-ise" everywhere I think. I just looked it up in Wiktionary; it says "advertize" is archaic. < 1510631917 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: having long constant strings as an important part of the solution is normally looked down on in golfing as the question becomes about optimizing those rather than about the rest of the question < 1510631935 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compression in that form can require some highly specialised techniques and things outside the normal goal of the language < 1510631948 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you're trying to spot and exploit patterns, rather than work out a clever algorithm < 1510631969 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't all golfing about Kolmogorov complexity? < 1510631986 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, sort of, but kolmogolf is specifically about when you have a fixed output to produce < 1510631999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the output chosen is normally ascii-art or the like, something with a repetitive but not uniform structure < 1510632015 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could think of regular golf being about writing functions, which run with no exceptions < 1510632022 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kolmogolf about encoding the exceptions < 1510632133 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a huge fan of kolmogolf < 1510632144 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1510632159 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often is the most efficient algorithm implemented as eval + kolmogolf? < 1510632169 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like reverse-kolmogolf but got disillusioned with it because I normally took much longer to write my answers than everyone else so didn't get upvotes even though they were IMO way more interesting (and shorter) than the other answers < 1510632178 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it mostly only happens in PHP for some reason < 1510632195 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on PPCG, because PHP isn't that popular there and because people don't often think of it < 1510632201 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the time on anagolf < 1510632282 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example of reverse-kolmogolf (full disclosure: this is one of my questions): https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/105303 < 1510632442 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-186-251.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1510632442 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-186-251.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1510632442 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1510632529 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have to recognise a large number of large inputs, but you know the input will be one of those, so you only have to focus on the differences and don't have to recognise the whole thing < 1510632560 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that you deleted your account, you no longer post referral links, which I like. < 1510632566 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stand stackexchange referral links. < 1510632613 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I got massively downvoted for complaining about some badges being seen by some people as a negative < 1510632638 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember. < 1510632641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned the badge for people visiting your referral links as an example of that, thinking about you when I did < 1510632664 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, if you can get the badge for yourself, you can just as easily inflict it on someone else by editing the link, as there's no authentication on it < 1510632665 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badge of shame. < 1510632671 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the badge is all it does < 1510632688 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have any badges of shame? < 1510632811 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the badges are really counterproductive in many ways, though, for example the fact that you got a badge for filling out your profile incentivised me to not do it < 1510632823 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I could always choose to do it later but I could never get rid of the badge < 1510632830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, gamification is scow < 1510632843 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowification < 1510632864 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I'd be OK for it for something that was actually a game < 1510632867 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wasn't, the incentives are all wrong < 1510633254 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1510633461 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1510633497 0 :watered!~water@157.49.5.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510633514 0 :bridger!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510634245 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510634288 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510634401 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510634561 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510634893 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510635340 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510637324 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1510637488 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510638350 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510638563 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510639026 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1510639567 0 :bridger!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1510639610 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510639984 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510640671 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510642834 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1510642909 0 :Downgoat!49bd34df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.52.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510644085 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to store a PC text screen (or anything that is close enough) with variable width and height, one format to use would be MZM, I think is work for such purpose. < 1510644156 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format is same like PC video memory but with a header that specifies the width and height. < 1510644178 0 :augur_!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510644267 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510644619 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: linky? < 1510644629 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :google doesn't show anything :\ < 1510644723 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a description that I wrote myself: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/mzm.form < 1510644763 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MegaZeux is capable of reading and writing this format, although it supports a superset of what I described. The subset I described is a subset which can be suitable for programs other than MegaZeux too. < 1510644802 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1510644829 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelated: I've long wanted to write my own video *container* format - though certainly not an encoding < 1510644841 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of features I want that nothing seems to provide < 1510644843 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1510644887 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1510644957 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it you wanted? I also made up such a container format, based on Ogg, but it is a bit different in order to avoid some of the problems of Ogg without adding the problems of other formats too, and without adding too much complexity. < 1510645001 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing I want is layers < 1510645037 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you perhaps elaborate on that? < 1510645040 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, sending a video, and an overlay with say bounding boxes, etc < 1510645045 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will, in one moment) < 1510645060 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second thing I want is transformations-in-container as a layer < 1510645079 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so, lets say I have a standard video, but I want to be able to block out parts of it as a user-selectable action < 1510645086 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I want to insert shapes on top < 1510645112 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or enable "high contrast mode" or "distorted mode" or whatever the change the underlying video is < 1510645119 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., I want composable videos < 1510645134 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although that seem then the layer codec may be need to add on. < 1510645147 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my design: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/glogg < 1510645160 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens
< 1510645254 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510645267 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relation fields in the control block could be used to specify relations between different streams (whether with same or different codecs) if needed, so you could make the relation to the overlay with the video, or whatever. < 1510645379 0 :augur_!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510646147 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510646168 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510646183 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody remember something about a lang with a really weird type system? < 1510646221 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, there were like 1-2 builtins that were so polymorphic they functioned as the standard library < 1510646530 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1510646726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:ModanShogi14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53363 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+469) 10Created page with "The example program is not a valid sequence of moves in a shogi game (whether the pieces start in the normal starting position for the game or otherwise). Both players have a..." < 1510647751 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510648614 0 :Challenger5!43bc7f28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.188.127.40 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510649750 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4520:baf5:f49d:26bf:cba:efc3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510649790 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4520:baf5:f49d:26bf:cba:efc3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510649824 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4520:baf5:dc44:d114:d591:9d3b JOIN :#esoteric < 1510649944 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1510650074 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zokajcloxxbaxbwr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1510650526 0 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:4535:1db1:d84b:d7eb:da4b:78e9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510650636 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4520:baf5:dc44:d114:d591:9d3b QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1510650936 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1510651361 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510652508 0 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:4535:1db1:d84b:d7eb:da4b:78e9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510652631 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510652963 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510653122 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1510655714 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510656831 0 :__20h___!~some_one@r-36.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1510656860 0 :__20h__!~some_one@r-36.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510657384 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510657595 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510658392 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fc5c:86e3:3132:7241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510659329 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510662523 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1510664321 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1510664920 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510667960 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510668859 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1510669033 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1510669048 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1510670463 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510670963 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510671788 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510671839 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510671976 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1510672066 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1510676673 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510676689 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1510677022 0 :david3x3x3!3425a618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.52.37.166.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510679487 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510679546 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510680504 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510680539 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I ordered a new mobile phone. But when choosing it, I found that Nokia is no longer making mobile phones like they used to, so < 1510680616 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though my approx. seven years old Nokia mobile phone has non-flat keypad, flash for the camera, and a camera resolution greater than 640x480, I absolutely can't buy a new Nokia mobile phone satisfying those three criteria at the same time. < 1510680755 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nokia 216 has non-flat keypad, camera flash, but (two) 640x480 pixel cameras. < 1510680809 0 :david3x3x3!3425a618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.52.37.166.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, cell phone form factors lack a lot of variety recently < 1510680823 0 :david3x3x3!3425a618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.52.37.166.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost impossible to find a good qwerty phone these days < 1510680832 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nokia 230 has large resolution main camera and camera flash, but a flat keypad. < 1510680896 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nokia 130 apparently doesn't have a camera, or at least they're hiding it well. < 1510681040 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nokia 3310 has non-flat keypad, high-res camera, camera flash, ... wait, why didn't I buy that one? < 1510681068 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just looks bad in genera < 1510681074 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1510681281 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510681515 0 :sebbu2!?@? NICK :sebbu < 1510681916 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1510681947 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510682257 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510682948 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1510682965 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1510682985 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1510683179 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510683282 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1510683315 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510683323 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510683326 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bescrzjcrahdylzw JOIN :#esoteric < 1510683431 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit < 1510683808 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510684521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510684521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host < 1510684521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510685671 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A function that returns the current continuation. When this continuation is invoked, an array of the arguments passed will be substituted and returned by the function instead." Is there a function like this already (well, has someone thought of it yet)? I can seem to remember reading about it, but IDK. < 1510685885 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510686013 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is "law of excluded middle" continuation; is it similar to what you intended? < 1510686365 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to check, but yes, that is what I remember reading about. < 1510686490 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger9: um, I don't understand your question. is that just an ordinar call-cc with a trivial wrapper around it, like (lambda (f) (let-values ((a (call/cc f))) a))) in scheme? < 1510686521 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vararg wrapper that is < 1510686590 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1510686595 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... not sure. < 1510686621 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger9: um, try to give an example to clarify your definition then? < 1510686648 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510686657 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no, the above code doesn't wrok < 1510686669 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1510686681 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck did call/cc work in scheme, let me try to understand this < 1510686720 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it works, I dunno < 1510686847 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (call/cc (lambda (e) (f (lambda a (apply e a)))))) might be cleaner < 1510686862 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that's wrong < 1510686887 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (call/cc (lambda (e) (f (lambda a (e a)))))) might be cleaner, ignore the previous one < 1510687003 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this Haskell code I wrote from before: lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)); The other way around define also is possible: callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x; < 1510687016 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.ubuntu.com/25962691/ < 1510687051 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what would be the corresponding way in Scheme) < 1510687231 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510687296 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510687329 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the way I interpreted the question involves a vararg function, so it probably doesn't relate to that Haskell thing you typed above < 1510687362 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't understand what that Haskell thing you typed does < 1510687650 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)) < 1510687652 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (Either a (a -> m c)) < 1510687868 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510687927 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a law of excluded middle continuation. < 1510689685 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 110 < 1510689687 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :110.00°F = 43.33°C < 1510691655 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1510691727 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1510692245 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510692316 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510692321 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1510693115 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510694237 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510694422 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510694606 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510695760 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1510695790 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1510695966 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fc5c:86e3:3132:7241 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1510699287 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510699351 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510699858 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510700034 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1510700933 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510702231 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1510702878 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510702962 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1510702967 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:adopted//"Oh lord, we've adopted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 \ fugal//Fugals are fictitious flower parts. \ lachine//Lachine is an unholy portal to China, closely guarded from Ëvil by Roujo. \ fish//Come and dance and love the fis < 1510702972 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1510702973 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:h! Mister Disco summoned it. \ space//Humans come from space. In particular, the part of space that has Earth in it. < 1510703082 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510703141 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510703187 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1510703201 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510703722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection