00:02:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:03:57 -!- imode has joined. 00:08:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:23:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:30:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:31:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:25 -!- imode has joined. 00:35:21 * boily slightly mapoles hppavilion[1] 00:35:24 -!- augur has joined. 00:36:49 * hppavilion[1] invokes Newton's Third Law and slightly mapoles boily with equal magnitude in the opposite direction 00:54:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:59:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 01:12:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:15:01 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:17:47 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53221&oldid=53217 * HereToAnnoy * (+1051) finished /* Tables */ 01:19:02 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:19:36 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53222&oldid=53213 * HereToAnnoy * (+39) /* T */ added Tables to language list 01:24:18 [wiki] [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53223&oldid=53209 * HereToAnnoy * (-15) i'm dumb 01:30:18 [wiki] [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53224&oldid=52797 * HereToAnnoy * (+443) /* Cheating Quines */ - added Tables example 01:31:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:31 Some people would go so far as to call it "a most ingenious paradox". <-- is this a quote from a relevant poem 01:31:40 oerjan: from a relevant play 01:31:45 aha 01:34:14 [wiki] [[Talk:Revolution 9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53225 * HereToAnnoy * (+199) Created page with "==STOP MAKING BRAINFUCK CLONES== Please stop making [[brainfuck]] clones.
Especially bad ones.
--~~~~" 01:39:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:40:00 -!- augur has joined. 01:47:30 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 01:48:20 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:57:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:25 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:09 But chances are I'll manage to forget about how I encrypted the new one I'm making, as well. <-- this might be a rare case where writing it down is the best option hth 02:08:58 damn. walls aren't passable in the labyrinth. 02:12:41 counter machines are beautiful. 02:14:49 imode: i remembered how to do the proof. how much math do you know? i can do it short with compactness, or more long-winded without 02:15:22 oerjan: your choice! long-winded would be nice as I could study it and prompt you with questions in bulk rather than bug you randomly. :P 02:15:58 um the "compactness" is a technical math term, just so you know. 02:16:03 I'm digging into equivalent models and I see that it's rooted in counter machines, inspired by Minsky, Melzak and Lambek. 02:17:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENFORCE CHICKEN). 02:17:22 shoot me the proof. 02:18:34 well ok first the common part. let's say you have a non-deterministic fractran program which simulates an ordinary one (so the result, and whether it halts, is unique). 02:19:08 right, and you could do that with extensive use of flag registers. 02:19:21 no, you cannot. that's what we're proving. 02:19:28 ah. continue. 02:20:44 now assume one instance of the computation runs through a sequence of numbers n_1, n_2, ... etc. 02:21:32 let p_1, p_2, ..., p_k be the primes used. split up each number n_i into a tuple of exponents, one coordinate for each prime. 02:22:01 so the computation is now a sequence of elements of N^k 02:22:24 alright, I follow. 02:23:24 the thing is, and this is what can be proved two ways: for any such sequence there must exist two indices i and j>i such that every coordinate of t_i is smaller than the corresponding coordinate of t_j. 02:24:08 that enforces an ordering, right? 02:24:09 um, _unless_ the sequence is finite. so from now on we're assuming the computation _doesn't_ halt. 02:24:22 yes, it's a partial ordering on tuples. 02:24:34 alright, I follow. 02:26:48 for now, assume this about number tuples. now because of how nondeterministic fractran works, once we've found i and j, we can modify what happens from point j to get a new computation that simply increases linearly every j-i steps. 02:27:18 (btw this partial order of tuples corresponds to the original number n_i dividing n_j) 02:28:27 but this means that we know how to solve the halting problem for nondeterministic fractran. thus it cannot be turing complete. 02:28:57 now, by nondeterministic fractran, you mean randomized rule application, right. 02:29:13 well not just randomized, freely chosen. 02:29:49 I figured. so, riddle me this. that made sense (though I'm still chewwing on it), but how can P systems claim to be turing complete then? 02:30:20 because things on different sides of membranes cannot react with each other, i presume. 02:30:41 right, but that's just a really fancy way of saying "I'm in this state so these rules apply, while the others don't." 02:30:48 which you can achieve by flag registers. 02:31:22 yes but you have a state for _each_ object, and there's no bound on the number of them, so you'd need infinitely many flags 02:31:53 hm wait 02:32:01 no what i'm saying isn't making sense. 02:32:12 let me go look up those P-systems. 02:32:19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system 02:32:28 membrane dissolution directly corresponds to a flag change. 02:33:22 in that if I have some register with the current state as an integer, I can always prepend a check for that register on each instruction to say "this will only fire if the current state is 3". 02:34:11 and a state transition is non-symmetrical, meaning we alter said register after we match on a given rule that says "go to the next state." 02:34:22 instead of just filling it back in with the previous value. 02:35:15 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:35:35 meaning a rule looks like state(1),... -> state(1),... when it's in one state, and on a transition, it looks like state(1),... -> state(2),... 02:36:27 to me that's what the membrane dissolution looks like. I can always know which state I'm in, and because of that I can enforce some sort of order on my computation without it having to be explicitly enforced by the rules of the P-system in question. 02:36:30 sans rule priority. 02:37:14 so that's really what's getting me. the fact that P-systems are very much like FRACTRAN but don't require any kind of explicit ordering in their rule set. 02:44:24 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:46:55 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:51:05 hm oh flags _might_ work in nondeterministic fractran, you just need two opposite ones. something is weird here. 02:51:46 the only odd thing is that you can't test for something like xor. 02:52:04 so the problem isn't flags, it's that you cannot test a number for being zero. 02:52:19 mhm. but you can get around that by simply using 1 and 2. :P 02:52:28 really simple, that. 02:52:29 not for your _real_ data 02:52:40 um no 02:52:51 you cannot test for <=1 either 02:53:47 no no, I mean... if I was using flags, instead of testing whether a flag was unset, I'd test if it was symbolically unset (i.e set to '1') or test if it was (i.e set to '2'). 02:54:08 that I can do. 02:54:20 ok, so membrane dissolution may work. what doesn't work is the "maximally parallel" rule. 02:54:42 if _that_ is essential for getting TC-ness without priorities. 02:55:33 these p-systems have too many variants, it seems, so the statement you don't need priorities is very vague on what you _do_ need instead. 02:55:47 probably a lot of membranes. 02:55:50 if I were to guess. 02:56:19 according to the abstract linked to, only 1 or 2 dependent on variants. 02:57:08 very curious. 02:57:39 i think of the things mentioned in the wikipedia article other than priorities, "maximally parallel" is what cannot be done in ND fractran. 02:58:30 how so? 02:58:34 well, or dividing membranes, but that seemed to be optional. 02:59:11 it's not too hard of a mental hurdle to delay the state change before you've gone through every possible rule. 02:59:36 that actually precludes every cellular automata, including 110. 03:00:54 though from experience most fractran programs would break. 03:03:25 imode: the problem is that to know when to stop delaying, you need to know when you have no more rules matching. 03:03:52 and you cannot do that because it's testing for absence of something 03:04:04 mmmm, I wouldn't say it is though. 03:04:29 it's less testing for the absence of something and more stopping if you have no more work to do. 03:04:44 "no more work to do" _is_ testing for absence. 03:04:51 converting a "test for negative" into a "continue if positive" is trivial. 03:05:05 because it is same as "we're out of input elements" 03:05:18 imode: no it's not. 03:05:38 the point is there is nothing _forcing_ you to continue. 03:06:03 I don't see your point. fractran's stopping point is "I can't find a rule to apply". 03:06:32 what's the difference here? "hand the unchanged state to all the rules, see what pops out, add together everything that pops out." 03:06:37 yes, but this is not a final program stopping point. it's a "go to next phase" stopping point. 03:07:27 and you don't have the means to disallow it randomly going to the next phase even if it _isn't_ finished. 03:07:30 say I have two states with 3 rules in them. one rule in the first state says to go to the second state (by triggering a flag register). 03:08:05 if I apply all 3 rules maximally, I'll have a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:08:26 if I apply all 6 rules maximally, I'll ahve a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:09:11 in fact, let me sketch this out and paste it. text diagrams on IRC suck. 03:12:07 https://ptpb.pw/u00g so we have two states, each of which has 3 rules. the first state has a transition to the second. regardless of what the specifics of any of these rules are, the current state register always regulates which set of rules is active. all the rules operate on the current state at once and get clumped together after they're done. 03:16:44 you're definitely answering the wrong question but now i need to think of a clearer example... 03:17:03 all ears. 03:21:40 ok this isn't quite satisfactory but how would you emulate the p-system rule "a -> aa" maximally parallely in ND fractran 03:22:08 just "a -> aa"? 03:22:19 yeah. 03:22:22 one sec. 03:22:51 note that it needs to exactly double the number of a's between some well-defined steps. 03:23:03 right, and it just involves one register. it's doubling a number. 03:23:29 and then it needs to do that again, indefinitely. 03:23:34 so.. I mean. 03:23:41 r1(1) -> r1(2). 03:23:58 2/4? 03:24:07 as the equivalent fractran program. 03:24:30 that would double the a's one at a time, not simultaneously. 03:24:43 or wait 03:24:53 steps are still there. 03:25:01 it's just that you don't find one rule then go back to the start. 03:25:14 you find all the rules that match, grab their left hand sides, and combine the whole set of states. 03:25:51 that's not how nondeterministic fractran works. you need to enforce it without having it a priori. 03:26:40 ND fractran does on rule at a time, P-systems as many as possible, and that may be the difference for TC-ness. 03:26:45 *one 03:26:59 hm. 03:27:19 not sure what your point was with the a -> aa rule. 03:27:33 well it's an example in the wiki page 03:27:42 because regardless of whether it's ND fractran or not, I'd still select a rule and apply it. 03:28:20 https://ptpb.pw/ua1Z 03:28:46 here's a.. I guess approximation of the rule set they presented. 03:29:16 i don't understand your notation 03:29:34 'state', 'a', 'c', 'd', 'e', etc. are just registers. 03:30:44 state(1),a(1) -> state(1),a(1),b(1) says "If the state register is >= 1 AND the 'a' register is => 1, subtract 1 from both and add 1 to the state register, the 'a' register, and the 'b' register." 03:30:58 because fractran simulates a register machine underneath. 03:33:15 hm, that could actually be modified into two rules for the first state. 03:33:39 gotta run for a few, but I'd like to continue this when I get back if possible oerjan! 03:34:03 that rule seems to be an infinite loop that can always trigger once it already has 03:34:50 oh i see. 03:39:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:45 -!- tromp has joined. 04:05:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:35:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:36:24 -!- imode has joined. 04:36:33 back. 04:37:08 i now have more useless knowledge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4 04:37:32 tell me your useless knowledge. 04:39:17 it was in that link hth 04:39:52 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:40:01 it did help. :P 04:41:27 also, that squaring P-system also uses maximal parallelism, i see. i'm pretty sure you'll have trouble converting it into a working ND fractran program. 04:42:37 i'm not sure NDF program even can multiply numbers 04:42:44 *programs 04:43:04 I think instead of talking about fractran, we should talk about counter machines in general. 04:43:25 because that's essentially all fractran is. 04:43:46 well yeah but ND fractran was what we started discussing, and that's weaker. 04:44:09 what exactly is ND fractran as you define it? free choice of rule application? 04:44:18 yep 04:45:08 so instead of "apply all the rules at once, then move on" it's "select a rule from the list at your own will. 04:45:15 "then move on." 04:46:17 I see why that could be difficult but I'm not convinced that it's not possible for a true conversion. 04:46:43 mainly because I could totally skip rules and go for the state transition first. 04:47:24 for counter machines, it corresponds, i think, to having any test have a chance of jumping as if a register is zero even if it isn't. 04:47:50 so instead of free choice you have some kind of chance mechanism. 04:48:16 that's pretty close. 04:48:18 i didn't really mean that. 04:48:37 although i suspect you cannot do everything with randomness either. 04:49:03 there was some literature on nondeterministic prolog programs, and if you wanna look at fractran as a really bizzaro prolog clone, that may be cool. :P 04:49:15 heh 04:50:53 https://ptpb.pw/uEFS so the only real issue I have with this system, if I was going to port it to ND fractran, is the rule with the asterisk next to it. 04:51:09 meaning if we're presented with any set of rules and one state transition, we can always choose the state transition as early as possible. 04:51:11 randomness might help, though, because you can then ignore a 0 probability of not halting. 04:52:40 imode: i think that rule is fine actually. the two previous ones are worse because how do you enforce that the first one doesn't fire alone? 04:53:15 yeah. you can go from the first to the third or repeatedly fire the first. 04:53:19 and totally ignore the second. 04:53:32 you could be dumb about it and break up every rule into its own state. 04:53:50 and form a mutual exclusion table.. thing. 05:00:07 I think you have to encode if-else combos if you're going to have "every rule is its own state". 05:00:30 meaning state(1),... -> state(2),...; state(2),... -> state(3),...; etc 05:00:41 trying to enforce some linear order. 05:01:34 "if you're in state N and your registers match these, go to state 1. else, go to state N+1." 05:03:01 I imagine there's some kind of way to encode that. if you could encode that you could write any set of fractran rules as ND fractran rules. 05:04:55 oerjan: do you know for sure that NDF is weaker than DF? 05:08:38 alercah: it is decidable whether it has to halt 05:08:46 see above 05:09:29 if it goes on long enough, you eventually _will_ reach a number divisible by a previous one. 05:09:44 and then you know it doesn't need to halt. 05:10:52 ah 05:12:54 about 3 hours ago 05:15:50 my question was whether NDF can evaluate all total recursive functions 05:16:11 i think there's also some way to upper bound the time until this happens, given the program and original input, and i suspect that the bound is primitive recursive. 05:16:24 so that's a no? 05:16:28 yeah 05:17:09 otoh i'm not entirely sure NDF can even multiply two numbers given in 2^m 3^n format. 05:17:19 so it might be even less. 05:18:09 I'd like to build a "skeleton" in an attempt to port DF programs to NDF. 05:18:21 what prevents it? 05:18:44 thought. :P 05:18:51 i meant for oerjan 05:18:56 why is multiplication hard 05:19:09 quintopia: i'm not _sure_ it's impossible, it's just that i don't see immediately how to do it either. 05:19:36 like everything else, it's about not being able to test for a "register" being smaller than a constant. 05:20:27 an approach might be to temporarily extend NDF to that kind of capability. 05:20:30 so you cannot really do it with nested for loops since you don't know how to break out of the inner one. 05:20:46 imode: but then it's a completely different task. 05:21:30 oh hm... 05:21:34 no. 05:21:47 https://cms.math.ca/10.4153/CMB-1961-031-9 Melzak's model is also completely equivalent to fractran, so this is interesting. 05:22:38 well, not completely equivalent. wrong words. the concept is the same (take N from here, put M here.) 05:24:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Melzak_model:_a_single_ternary_instruction_with_addition_and_proper_subtraction far more brief here. 05:24:41 the difference is that his model appears to deal with one register at a time, while conway's deals with multiple registers at a time. 05:24:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:27:44 but iirc he touches on something similar to conway's rule format. 05:31:17 imode: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Minsky.27s_model_of_a_partial_recursive_function_reduced_to_a_.22program.22_of_only_two_instructions 05:32:08 yeah, he encodes an else branch. 05:34:06 so, if every rule in NDF had an explicit action for else, then you could encode any sequence of DF commands. 05:34:27 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:37 that useless machine was invented by minsky btw 05:34:48 heh, really? 05:35:13 wow. 05:35:20 "Minsky's mentor at Bell Labs, information theory pioneer Claude Shannon (who later also became an MIT professor), made his own versions of the machine. He kept one on his desk, where science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke saw it. Clarke later wrote, "There is something unspeakably sinister about a machine that does nothing—absolutely nothing—except switch itself off", and he was fascinated by the 05:35:26 concept." 05:35:42 suicidal by design. :P 05:37:01 "Minsky also invented a "gravity machine" that would ring a bell if the gravitational constant were to change, a theoretical possibility that is not expected to occur in the foreseeable future." 05:38:22 shame he's now an icicle. 05:38:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:34 so if by some measure, you did manage to construct a kind of skeleton with an explicit else branch, you could port any DF program to NDF. but until you have that link, NDF is weaker. 05:44:43 it may be interesting to compare with prolog's style of nondeterminism. multiple matching rules but only one choice. 05:48:48 -!- tromp has joined. 05:53:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:54:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:09:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:39:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:43:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:47:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:48:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:28:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheFriendlyEnemy * New user account 07:32:40 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53226&oldid=53178 * TheFriendlyEnemy * (+196) 07:37:51 -!- tromp has joined. 07:42:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:45:12 -!- augur has joined. 07:47:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:49:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:50:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 07:50:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:50:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:52:03 -!- tromp has joined. 07:57:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:00:37 -!- augur has joined. 08:04:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:38 spämmi 08:31:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:37:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:38:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:51:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:18:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:40:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:15:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:31:00 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:32:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:37:19 -!- HackEgo has joined. 10:58:58 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:02:02 -!- aloril has joined. 11:03:08 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:16:47 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:16:53 -!- clog has joined. 11:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 11:30:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:35:01 -!- boily has joined. 12:07:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 12:15:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:18 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 12:21:58 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:20 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LAIR CHICKEN). 12:22:51 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 13:19:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:23:16 -!- pledis has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:31:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:00:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:20:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:21:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:26:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:00:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:04:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:55 -!- augur has joined. 15:20:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:41:48 -!- augur has joined. 16:43:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:04:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:04:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 17:17:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:17:44 I like today's SMBC. http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/smell-this 17:18:38 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:25:18 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:25:31 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:27:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:43:25 if only all SMBC comics were funny like this 17:44:21 what 17:44:32 most are funnier than this 17:45:05 they are fine but they tend to repeat jokes a lot 17:45:14 Joke format, anyway 17:47:39 I don't know. Most of them seem to be based on people being jerks quite deliberately. 17:47:58 you try drawing 7+ comics a week for years without repeating yourself. im impressed how even with such a rigorous schedule, its still funnier than xkcd on average 17:48:10 Well here's the idea 17:48:17 maybe don't draw one per day 17:48:27 quintopia: I wouldn't try :P 17:49:11 th 17:49:39 the oatmeal is funnier on average but updates far less often 17:50:28 also all the long form side projects zach produces are creative and hilarious as well 17:51:17 Slereah: they mostly just repeat jokes with xkcd. if you read both, you get many of the jokes twice. it's unclear which is first among the two, and hard to find otu. 17:51:39 I don't think any of them are first in most cases 17:51:45 quintopia: but from what I've read about comics and comedy, being consistently funny is a full time job, though there are tricks that help (read diversely, talk to people, free association games, and obviously expect to discard 90% of your ideas.). 17:51:45 Those are just general science type jokes 17:51:49 quintopia: yep, it has a very rigorous schedule, and he even managed to publish a book (with good reviews) on schedule 17:51:59 the type that other people have done before and after 17:52:08 Like Nearing Zero in the olden days 17:52:22 Slereah: what's "Nearing Zero"? 17:52:30 and I don't think it's just science, but ok 17:52:32 It was an old science webcomic 17:52:49 do you know an URL? 17:52:53 Also a lot of SMBC comics remind me a bit of "The Parking Lot is Full" 17:52:58 another old timey webcomic 17:53:05 again, do you know an url? 17:53:14 Nearing Zero isn't online anymore but here's an arhcive 17:53:16 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/26/the-best-of-nearing-zero-by-nick-kim/ 17:53:45 oops 17:53:49 not actually a lot of them 17:54:33 http://www.lab-initio.com/best.html 17:54:34 There they are 17:54:39 there's a rather long list at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?272481-Webcomic-List 17:54:47 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz015.jpg 17:54:48 and there was another comparable list somewhere but I can't remember wher 17:54:50 classic science joke 17:55:27 http://j.aufbix.org/plif/archive/archive.htm 17:55:34 and here's The Parking Lot is Full 17:55:41 http://imadudeyo.tumblr.com/ 17:55:44 thanks 17:56:16 . o O ( when we're done, lead poisoning will be the least of your worries ) 17:56:28 In the same kind of off-beat comics like that you had like 17:56:32 "Tom the dancing bug" 17:56:36 etc etc 17:56:53 No comics are really original, it is all just one long continuity 17:58:14 sure, and every joke is new to a newborn 17:58:15 all art is derivative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html 18:01:01 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz192.jpg 18:01:14 Possibly a reference to the nobel prize for the discovery of the CMB! 18:02:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:15:56 -!- erkin has joined. 18:27:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:25 -!- augur has joined. 18:32:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:33:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:43:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:45:57 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 19:01:53 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:47 -!- erkin has joined. 19:47:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:10:03 -!- imode has joined. 20:22:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:27:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:21 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:03:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:04:23 -!- augur has joined. 21:09:52 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:13:18 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:23:54 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:25:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:32:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:46:07 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:58:47 -!- Cale has joined. 22:04:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:16:41 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: grumble). 22:17:09 -!- grumble has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:54:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:58:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:04:42 -!- boily has joined. 23:45:11 I'm still not convinced NDF isn't turing complete. 23:48:03 NDF? 23:48:30 nondeterministic fractran. thue is nondeterministic and manages to be turing complete and the only difference is the idea that it supports ordered strings. 23:49:12 if you could show a thue program ported to NDF then you'd prove NDF is turing complete through thue. 23:49:38 the key is representing ordered strings.