< 1505520698 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505524131 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1505524207 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505525628 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505525873 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1505525874 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505527157 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505528382 0 :SoniEx2!?@? NICK :Soni < 1505528957 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@172.56.38.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505530941 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1505530973 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/ < 1505531378 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505531502 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1505531655 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505531722 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1505533026 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505533035 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1505533061 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505533301 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505533941 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505534230 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505536055 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1505537201 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@172.56.38.227 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505537382 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1505537553 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the calculation by computer to figure out when a deceptive attack is better in GURPS, and to figure out whether a improved defense or double defense is better; in most cases improved defense is better, but not always. This does not consider all needing considerations though (including not knowing your opponent's attacking/defending scores, as well as other things too). < 1505539296 0 :diginet_!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505539318 0 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505539354 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505539354 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505539354 0 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505539355 0 :diginet_!?@? NICK :diginet < 1505539362 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1505539666 0 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1505539686 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505540198 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One possible possible thing that could be done with the punch card programs loading with MIX could be for all of the cards other than the first and last card to be punched "0" in the first character position (for the first and last cards it will be blank), so that if the cards are mixed up, you can easily recover them by using a thin stick in the first zero position < 1505540222 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two cards it won't go through are then the first and last card, which it should be easily to tell apart. The other cards can be placed in any order and the program will still work. < 1505540238 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1505540248 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1505540749 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This will not work if the program includes additional cards of data after the end of the program, although it may be possible to use different colours of cards (if you have different colours of cards available) to help that a bit) < 1505541263 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505541299 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505541564 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505541760 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505542633 0 :betaveros!~betaveros@mint-square.mit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1505543334 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505543633 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1505543739 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505543804 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505546189 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you launched Russell's teapot yet? < 1505546583 0 :lezsakdomi!~led@1F2ECCD0.catv.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1505548421 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1505548497 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505548521 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1505551814 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cale: Why are contravariant functors so popular? <-- people like being contrarian hth < 1505551965 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1505551976 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1505551980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand baseball twh < 1505552445 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hth < 1505552466 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( understanding baseball is not cricket ) < 1505552517 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the "cricket is not croquet" thing < 1505552522 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one was p. advanced for me < 1505552523 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505552558 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505552578 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did at one time understand croquet enough to play it. < 1505552604 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :with flamingos? < 1505552612 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly only with clubs < 1505552634 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a member of any fan clubs < 1505552651 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1505552653 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example the Andrej Bauer fan club? < 1505552667 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even remember who that is, even if it rings a bell < 1505552674 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1505552697 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because you've mentioned him before < 1505552708 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i googled him < 1505552712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you've encountered him elsewise. < 1505552721 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then promptly forgot what he was. < 1505552791 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Andrej Bauer (rojen 11. maj 1971) je profesor računalniške matematike na Fakulteti za matematiko in fiziko Univerze v Ljubljani v Sloveniji." < 1505552811 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the only wikipedia hit on the front page) < 1505552826 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:6dff:1c12:e8ea:3f75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes think it would be interesting to see pros play certain variants of baseball, for example, if each base were worth a run (or some varying number of runs), making bunts much more valuable. < 1505552854 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505552873 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:6dff:1c12:e8ea:3f75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should vary the rules more, it would be interesting < 1505552893 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( are bunts the same as wickets ) < 1505552933 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1505552939 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:6dff:1c12:e8ea:3f75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunting is where you hold the bat with both hands and hit the ball a short distance to make the opposing team run forward to get it < 1505552987 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm food -> < 1505553026 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale obviously understands this game much better than I do. < 1505553117 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1505553598 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1505553810 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1505554613 0 :lezsakdomi!~led@1F2ECCD0.catv.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1505554874 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505555121 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505555373 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505555516 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505555940 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505557441 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505557458 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1505557731 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505557917 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1505560235 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505560355 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C965.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1505560408 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1505560924 0 :S1!~S1@ip4d16fe59.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1505561814 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505561888 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1505562796 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505564247 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505564729 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1505564885 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505564939 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1505565365 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505565639 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505566694 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505566862 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:6dff:1c12:e8ea:3f75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1505566872 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505567004 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1505567020 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1505567599 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1505567652 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:a94e:f413:69d8:ef7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1505567715 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1505569922 0 :J_Arcane!sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rggwezyoupgijgbv QUIT : < 1505570443 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505571116 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505571214 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1505571245 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505572120 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505572433 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1505572480 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505572687 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1505573634 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505574379 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what Wireworld would look like with a von neumann neighborhood.
< 1505574469 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1505574582 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1505574649 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1505574763 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505577148 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505577152 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1505578785 0 :S1!~S1@ip4d16fe59.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1505581222 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1505581721 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505581798 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505583963 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1505584442 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505585027 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C965.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1505589652 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1505590703 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505591355 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1505591645 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1505592231 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505592257 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re MIX programs, I don't think it's true that you can permute cards of the program other than the first and last card around to any order. < 1505592310 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in fact I think even in a typical program the assembler will often emit cards that rewrite a word that was written by a previous card, when you define a backreference that a far earlier part of the program has referred to. < 1505592352 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505592364 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this is when the MIXAL assembler runs on a MIX machine, which usually has only as much memory as the program will run on. it might not apply to your assembler, which can emit cards differently and uses more RAM. < 1505592443 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: note that MMIX is trickier because its loader xors values when multiple values are loaded to the same memory word. you could do something like that in MIX too, by adding values. You have to be careful with overflows, but that doesn't cause many problems with just backreferences, < 1505592519 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and at least the overflow behavior is well-defined and deterministic even if you do tricks with ORG. However, this would require zeroing the entire memory first, which takes a few more instructions in the loader, and is not as natural as in MMIX, where you zero the memory anyway to protect from other processes' secrets. < 1505593210 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C965.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1505593401 0 :Pazzaz!97b10e21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.177.14.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1505594403 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1505594608 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1929@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.41 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1505596197 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think you are right about MIXAL, yes, but my own assembler is different and outputs the entire program at the end after two passes. < 1505596245 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes it does depend on the assembler and on the computer running it. < 1505597104 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1505599435 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1505599605 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:48a1:857:475:daee QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1505601946 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using ais523 teminology, would LoL have more headroom than Dota2? < 1505603049 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the golf course have dragons? < 1505603057 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:a94e:f413:69d8:ef7a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you mean by headroom? < 1505603171 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack4.org/blog/strategy-headroom.html < 1505603185 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to make suboptimal decisions without necessarily instantly failing < 1505603202 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are two possible extremes for the scale here. One is "no matter who you are or which choice you make, it won't affect your odds of winning the game". There are two ways to look at this situation. One is that the game is "perfectly balanced" with respect to character creation. The other is that the choice is entirely meaningless; if nobody gains an advantage from either choice, then either success or failure has nothing to do with the < 1505603202 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :skill of the player, or else the various options play so similarly that the choice is entirely cosmetic. This situation has a very high headroom; the player can mess around with their strategy at will without any risk of the game limiting their experimentation. < 1505603202 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other extreme is "one of these choices will guarantee you victory; the other will guarantee you are defeated". This is definitely a meaningful choice, now! However, it can be seen as unsatisfactory for other reasons: the choice is meaningful, but it's a false choice, in that only one option is reasonable to take. An unspoiled player may pick the wrong one, and lose, if the choice is not well-signposted. Or a player might want to pick one < 1505603207 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :choice (because it fits in more with how they want to play the game, for instance), but be forced to take the other in order to have a chance of success. This situation has zero headroom; a player must follow the path that the game dictates for them in order to have any chance of survival." < 1505603208 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:a94e:f413:69d8:ef7a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ah, I think that's somewhat true. < 1505603253 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C965.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1505603300 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:6f5:a94e:f413:69d8:ef7a PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played either game extensively, but I have watched a bunch of both, and it seems that in Dota2, the abilities tend to have much sharper effects. It doesn't necessarily mean the game is overall more challenging, but locally the play seems much more unforgiving. < 1505603404 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd like LoL but the business model bothers me < 1505603431 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can also be the challenge game. And, for the character creation, you can try to win with every combination, some may be more difficult than the others < 1505603980 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that idea of the headroom though it can help I suppose. The game design can be consider such thing, although for character definition at start of game and also with challenge game, there is the other aspect of that too. < 1505604636 0 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1505604667 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.52.24.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1505606177 0 :Pazzaz!97b10e21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.177.14.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dota 2 has an All Hero Challenge where the goal is to win atleast one game with every character. It's a pretty nice way to add some variety to your games < 1505606181 0 :Pazzaz!97b10e21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.177.14.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dota2.gamepedia.com/All-Hero_Challenge