block :P
< 1503160267 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(woah there went the afternoon.)
< 1503160889 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503161329 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503161538 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo
< 1503161667 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( note to self, what's an unsigned natural number, wouldn't that suggest that there are signed ones as well? )
< 1503161699 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned complex numbers
< 1503161777 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Concept: implicit CPS, which is made explicit to the callee. the callee receives a continuation as the final argument, and must call it to return - but the caller wouldn't pass it explicitly.
< 1503161861 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, you'll have call/cc everywhere
< 1503161872 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503161897 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the callee doesn't call the continuation, execution halts
< 1503161904 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more goto/cc
< 1503161923 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where's the fun in that
< 1503161985 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fun starts when you have several continutations to choose from. oh and of course when you use the same continuation more than once)
< 1503162004 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503162018 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "fun" I mean the kind that usually requires mind-altering drugs.
< 1503162049 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can force other functions to return to other continuations from further back in the call stack
< 1503162134 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say you have add(x, y15, return) that calls return with x+y. then you could have add5(x15, return) { add(x, 5, return); } rather than return(add(x, 5));
< 1503162233 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could also be multiple-continuation syntax like you said - e.g. if(condition) { cont1 } else { cont2 } cont3
< 1503162304 0 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-092-072-159-070.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503162357 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503162472 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503162886 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503163014 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503163333 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :imodee!!
< 1503163338 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :imodium
< 1503163352 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503163370 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuup.
< 1503163383 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuuuuuuuuuuup.
< 1503163384 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup.
< 1503163393 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sky is up
< 1503163436 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just found out that there's another of these big image editing libraries, called G'MIC, at http://gmic.eu/ , which is sort of like ImageMagick in that it goes for scriptability, but even more so, and also has GUI plugins for Gimp and Krita
< 1503163442 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely worth to know about
< 1503163445 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^
< 1503163685 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs stacks and heaps and call queues when you have the DATA SOUP?! :P
< 1503163778 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need trees, because they're more general
< 1503163952 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but soups can be reactive
< 1503163956 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen G'MIC
< 1503164018 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. I'd never heard of it until a few days ago for some reason
< 1503164692 0 :kuluma|2!~kvirc@85-76-164-97-nat.elisa-mobile.fi QUIT :Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/
< 1503165187 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add a Halt CLUT program inyo my Farbfeld Utilities (actually, two such programs; one makes the identity and one applies it)
< 1503165487 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what's a Halt CLUT?
< 1503165578 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLUT = 'color lookup table', but no clue about the "halt".
< 1503165638 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Halt CLUT/Hald CLUT/
< 1503165649 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/color_mods/#hald-clut
< 1503165667 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit too slow :P
< 1503165686 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503166449 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1503167238 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hereafter
< 1503167239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hereafter? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503167240 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hereunder
< 1503167241 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hereunder? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503167242 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thereof
< 1503167243 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thereof? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503167243 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? set forth
< 1503167244 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :set forth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503167263 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hereinafter
< 1503167264 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hereinafter? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503167490 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made the program, ff-apclut ff-idclut
< 1503168209 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 456
< 1503168210 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 456: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
< 1503170742 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503174264 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moo
< 1503174265 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo is the sound made by a cow as it freezes.
< 1503174277 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1? mud
< 1503174279 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mud
< 1503174280 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mud? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503174298 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mmo
< 1503174299 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503175388 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mud
< 1503175389 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mud? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503175401 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad
< 1503175402 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
< 1503175448 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody has any recommendations for a book about game design?
< 1503175842 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503175967 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a particular kind of game you're interested in?
< 1503176089 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-159-070.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503176099 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in a specific way. i like games with a high replay factor a lot
< 1503176109 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big fan of rogue likes n stuff
< 1503176147 0 :Melvar`!?@? NICK :Melvar
< 1503176157 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: is your target board/card games only, or video games only? games with mostly well-defined rules, or games requiring an imaginative game master who comes up with scenarios?
< 1503176182 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :primarily video games
< 1503176373 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503176490 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503176500 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the wiki go down again?
< 1503176528 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1503176534 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it
< 1503176536 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was up an hour ago
< 1503176541 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik
< 1503176653 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's just a temporary problem. fizzie?
< 1503176671 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: seems like it might be working now.
< 1503176694 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1503177014 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's down
< 1503177487 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk what to do
< 1503177724 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503177827 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503177853 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting someone else to talk
< 1503177854 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503178108 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki is up.
< 1503178128 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`is-wiki-up
< 1503178219 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I just delete every crappy shitty esolang I have?
< 1503178252 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones?
< 1503178274 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them excluding QWOP, HI9+, Rule and Mindscrew
< 1503178346 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: http://magiccards.info/mi/en/48.html
< 1503178438 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. esplangs are like spells so I want to uncast my shitty ones.
< 1503178476 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: the esolangs will still exist no matter what. that's why it's dangerous to even think of brainfuck-alikes.
< 1503178506 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how my brainfuck-alike is my best esolang yet, then
< 1503178536 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably disown esolangs though
< 1503178559 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to travel back in time and kill my past self before he even thinks of making shitty langs
< 1503178583 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "disavow" them, which sounds much fancier
< 1503178638 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503178646 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what do you think of a lang where every call is a call/cc? every function gets passed its continuation to it, and it has to call that continuation to return
< 1503178673 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better is you can explicitly call it with a different continuation and it'll return there instead
< 1503178688 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 'Assignless' is a nice language.
< 1503178700 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, maybe
< 1503178704 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never fleshed it out enough
< 1503178734 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could stick some of my better ideas together, but idk how assignlessness plus first-class continuations would work...well, actually it might work
< 1503178940 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think assignless and first-class continuations fit well together.
< 1503179003 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503179148 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :mayb
< 1503179149 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1503179610 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/zserik/280f3126e2141d7bad223c3c1e9a1b9d
< 1503179749 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1503180031 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1503180084 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google dykyabc
< 1503180086 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://disneykid08.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/dykyabc/
< 1503180264 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe (parameter1, parameter2, k) and have "self" as some hidden function-local variable?
< 1503180345 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503180350 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that there's a programming language called 'Self'?
< 1503180496 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wasn't Self a non-eso object-oriented programming language?
< 1503180523 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At one point a version of Smalltalk was implemented in Self."
< 1503180526 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Self was a dialect of Smalltalk"
< 1503180533 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. the. actual. lol :P
< 1503180567 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: prototype based, if you care about the difference; and it was basically a research language, so kind of esoteric
< 1503180587 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503180623 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is: should 'self' (or 'this'; as an variable) be implicit, and the continuation an explicit? That seems a little bit inconsistent.
< 1503180651 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIUC, the most significant influence was the Hotspot VM which borrowed techniques from Self's JIT compiler.
< 1503180665 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :'self' and 'continuation' are different concepts. I think a function should be able to call itself without too much in the way.
< 1503180703 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking the syntax could be "function (x, y, z) k { ... }" (where x, y and z are parameters and k is the continuation), just as syntactic sugar
< 1503180993 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, on the explicit/implicit end-of-function return, I think it should be explicitly required - otherwise the program will have nowhere to flow to and will hatl.
< 1503180995 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :halt*.
< 1503181261 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated.
< 1503181570 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503182909 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503183354 0 :zseri!5e86d25a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503184114 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503185130 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503185316 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503185811 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503185881 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503188358 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503188627 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503189086 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hily
< 1503189147 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :diais523 duit
< 1503189681 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan!
< 1503189694 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorcah!
< 1503189695 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf
< 1503189705 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf.
< 1503189935 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :こんぶわりは
< 1503190236 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :「ぶわり」って？変。
< 1503190268 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :「ブワリ」は自分です
< 1503190316 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You pronounce your name similar to "buwari" rather than "boirii"?
< 1503190322 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :変。
< 1503190465 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name's pronounced /bwali/ hth
< 1503190500 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not 変, just French :D
< 1503190521 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIC
< 1503190538 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, being French means it's weird ipso facto. :P
< 1503191129 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you haven't seen irish clearly
< 1503191360 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503191397 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503191475 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. You want weird, try transcribing "六百" as "rot̄uhi̊ȳaku".
< 1503191477 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503191515 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503191729 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :dheartháireacha
< 1503191757 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess. that one's pronounced throatwarbler-mangrove?
< 1503191761 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly!
< 1503191763 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means brothers
< 1503191817 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is post spelling reform even
< 1503191862 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's egregiously outrageous spelling.
< 1503191902 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pronounced something like yerarech
< 1503191912 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ch as in german)
< 1503191936 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ach-laut or ich-laut?
< 1503192030 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dearth%C3%A1ireacha
< 1503192078 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ach in this case
< 1503192149 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503192154 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how in fungot's name can you say [dʲɾʲ]???
< 1503192154 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: t-rex, i have big news the other! you can see, i've thought of the best story! oh goodness, i must have put that in your pipe and smoke it?
< 1503192169 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jellonas.
< 1503192184 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dheratháireacha"
< 1503192240 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: like [dɾ] but palatalized?
< 1503192275 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "i̊" even a thing? what does that accent do?
< 1503192433 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rot̄uhi̊ȳaku" seriously
< 1503192655 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: as in, ʲ is a modification of the previous sound, not a separate one.  it means that the middle of the tongue is lifted towards the palate, like in an english "y" sound.
< 1503192848 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's the [dɾ] sequence that baffles me :/
< 1503192851 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without necessarily  moving the main articulation of the letter
< 1503192856 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1503192921 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in this case i guess it's your r's that are the problem.
< 1503192938 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rs are perfectly fine :P
< 1503192954 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, very French rs.)
< 1503192976 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian has plenty of [dɾ]s, anyway.
< 1503193065 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dʁ] is saner.
< 1503193130 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would imply people from Bergen are sane, an absurdity!
< 1503193499 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't tell wob_jonas about today's wikipedia main page picture. oh woops.)
< 1503193533 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lundomys molitor?
< 1503193554 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the article, not the picture hth
< 1503193592 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :please scroll down a bit twh
< 1503193609 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thukkachi Abatsahayesvar temple???
< 1503193612 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confuzzled?

< 1503193620 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1503193625 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more scrolling.
< 1503193660 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you see that *reloads*
< 1503193686 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that section hadn't updated when i loaded last
< 1503194410 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503194490 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lightly mapoles fizzie

< 1503194609 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wiki is up
< 1503194769 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503195637 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :My monitoring says it was down for an hour.
< 1503195657 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably was enough to make HackEgo go down as well, though not sure why it didn't come back up automagically.
< 1503195710 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the socat process, but it's using 99.9% of CPU.
< 1503195714 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just confused.
< 1503195772 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just kill that one, I think the starter script has a loop around the socat.
< 1503195809 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503195812 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :See.
< 1503195814 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`botsnack
< 1503195815 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​>:-D
< 1503196032 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that was intresting. I just had half a dozen experienced linux users try and beat umlbox to the ground.
< 1503196175 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I don't think anyone's broken umlbox in this channel
< 1503196189 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo itself has been successfully broken a couple of times, but via HackEgo-specific exploits
< 1503196409 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same thing happened to my bot. Altho no breaks were serious, all were just mistakes in the code that caused it to crash :P
< 1503196445 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people managed to break HackEgo?
< 1503196456 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503196460 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:elliott//elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur. \ all the single objects//All the single objects / went to form a class / but then they got a unit test / which none of them did pass. \ mothball//Mothballs are the main ingred
< 1503196462 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ǹ
< 1503196464 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503196465 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ient of a traditional soup of Eastern European origin. \ overflow//Overflow is a phenomenon that occurs when too much water pours into the inner tanks of a hydraulic computer. \ nød//Nød is French for vertex.
< 1503196476 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long has hackego been around anyways?
< 1503196495 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a while now
< 1503196501 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally meant to be an egobot replacement
< 1503196505 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people didn't really use it for esolangs
< 1503196514 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :any estimate in years for hackego? :P
< 1503196515 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about 8 years
< 1503196535 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a sign of the decline of this channel :-(
< 1503196573 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I started college in 2009 and also joined irc, and I vaguely remember an egobot
< 1503196628 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot was basically our version of TIO, only it probably came first
< 1503196640 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO?
< 1503196641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload (test)S
< 1503196642 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1503196646 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: http://tio.run
< 1503196651 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, its been so many years since I dropped out
< 1503196657 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-06-20 for HackEgo, as far as my logs can tell.
< 1503196662 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally just esolangs, but it's added a bunch of practical languages since
< 1503196691 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-10-25 for EgoBot.
< 1503196712 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the other way round from what most people might expect)
< 1503196723 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503196730 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing this channel, thats perfectly normal
< 1503196756 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't seem to be associated with this channel at all
< 1503196769 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of its development was driven by PPCG on Stack Exchange
< 1503196873 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I helped out a bit, like getting INTERCAL running there
< 1503196928 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know how the version control system was set up? Im considering making something similar for my bot
< 1503196943 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version control system? hackego's?
< 1503196949 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea hackego's
< 1503196954 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the most fragile parts, and doesn't really work
< 1503196958 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't recommend copying it
< 1503196961 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk
< 1503196978 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it, some bugs have been fixed
< 1503196997 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't it give really weird results if you run a nondeterministic command?
< 1503197005 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the bots that store every persistent data version controlled, like buubot or wikiplia?
< 1503197017 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it runs it twice
< 1503197033 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :discarding the first run.
< 1503197059 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503197063 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what most people would expect
< 1503197088 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can certainly fool it into producing even more counterintuitive results
< 1503197100 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also that time when I permanently broke `revert…
< 1503197113 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically, it still works to do the reverting, just produces an error message every time)
< 1503197113 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's hard to do anything better. jevalbot is really stupid and just loses the result of whichever computation finishes first when you run two commands at the same time
< 1503197147 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's one of the bugs that are fixed hth
< 1503197154 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would be fun if you could run two conflicting commands at the same time
< 1503197158 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up with conflict markers in the file
< 1503197167 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more harmful than useful, but fun
< 1503197173 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that could break things a lot
< 1503197197 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1503197299 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got an arguably semi-reasonable thing for a half-completed bot, but it involves doing the filename-to-file mapping on your own.
< 1503197311 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall what buubot does. It allows multiple commands to run at the same time, and I think they just access the same (version controlled) persistent database, and only individual stores or loads are atomic and a command can do any number of those.
< 1503197315 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( reason tells me "are fixed" is correct but the rest of my brain isn't convinced. )
< 1503197320 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no locking primitives.
< 1503197443 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory you could make a bot that exposes you ways to lock parts or do atomic ops on the database
< 1503197530 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a buubot/wikiplia-like system
< 1503197541 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't have to version control everything for that
< 1503197561 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm… "the bugs are fixed", "one of the bugs is fixed", so what happens if you add "that"?
< 1503197579 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess logically you can only parenthesize it as the first case
< 1503197598 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the locking or atomic would be explicit in programs, and if you don't use them and something splinches, you get to keep the pieces
< 1503197599 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of ((the bugs) that are fixed)
< 1503198028 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503198418 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PROGRESSIVE CHICKEN
< 1503198782 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503198961 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503199314 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
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< 1503199467 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Width14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52879 5* 03Stestoltz 5* (+427) 10Created page with "'''Width''' is an esoteric stack-based language created by [[User:Stestoltz|Stephen S]]. All characters except letters are ignored. For more information, see the Github link...."
< 1503200358 0 :wob_jonas!b03f187d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.125 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503201649 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503206545 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503207942 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the solar eclipse soon. One way to calculate when and where is by use of Swiss Ephemeris. Have you looked at or used Swiss Ephemeris at all?
< 1503207964 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you asking me?
< 1503207966 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1503207971 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't.
< 1503207978 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the eclipse?
< 1503207988 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it hasn't happened yet.
< 1503207997 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know that
< 1503208015 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to Oregon to see the eclipse properly?
< 1503208051 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swiss Ephemeris is reporting happening on 2017-08-21T18:13:14.199Z, at 36 N 58' 15", 87 W 39' 23". If it is wrong then I might have done something wrong
< 1503208077 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used https://eclipsemega.movie/simulator to check.
< 1503208103 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the use of the interface to use Swiss Ephemeris with JavaScript, now you can use with the Node.js REPL to figure it out, such as by entering: swe.fromJulian(swe.occult(swe.planet.Sun).time)
< 1503208174 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What did they tell you?
< 1503208196 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, no I am not going to Oregon to see the eclipse properly; I will remain here, and not see it properly
< 1503208207 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503208234 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told me 'You may seek it with thimbles— and seek it with care; You may hunt it with forks and hope; You may threaten its life with a railway-share; You may charm it with smiles and soap—'
< 1503208302 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not see how that helps, and how you can use thimbles to seek a solar eclipse or to charm it with soap?
< 1503208654 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of the functions of Swiss Ephemeris have been put in yet, although I have also put in some functions that are not in Swiss Ephemeris, such as converting between JavaScript Date objects and Julian day numbers, numeric formatting (for angles, such as ecliptic or equatorial coordinates, geographic coordinates, azimuth, astrological signs, etc), a few new house systems that I made up, and map projections.
< 1503208758 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also wrote my own implementation of converting to horizontal coordinates, since I found that the one included in Swiss Ephemeris cannot use hour angle as input.)
< 1503209064 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is also no reverse map projections yet, so if you want a interactive map that you can click on, it doesn't implement yet.)
< 1503211394 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to know how I could add artificial satellite positions and terminator lines
< 1503211833 0 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbhzedjebiiscxre QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1503212684 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52880&oldid=43201 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+234) 10
< 1503212947 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503213473 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] !
< 1503213927 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1503214603 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503215509 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri! yay!
< 1503215957 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503217169 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503218809 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503219981 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oerjan is totally out of phase again
< 1503221809 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503221947 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503221966 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503222144 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: why do you have a subpage Esolangs (User:Rdococ/Esolangs) on your profile which is less complete than the Esolangs list on the main profile page User:Rdococ
< 1503222997 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503223305 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:6dfa:16bd:df3d:3a4b JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503223324 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503223714 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:9d0c:f7e5:5331:bc8 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503223753 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503223857 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503224156 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: idk
< 1503224157 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], hi
< 1503224165 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503224424 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52881&oldid=52880 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+4) 10
< 1503224587 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503225317 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1503225355 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: what about a low level language where the main array type is a linked list?
< 1503226340 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like brainfuck, but you can drop the current cell or insert one (e.g. after the current cell)
< 1503226347 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice idea
< 1503226637 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1503226668 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! what if the cells started as all ones, and all you could do was insert a 0 cell after the current cell?
< 1503226903 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck minus - (and non-wrapping bits) seems to be TC; what if you had to insert the 1 cells?
< 1503227041 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503227216 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503227398 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503227410 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503228166 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of combining the continuation thing with http://esolangs.org/wiki/Upsilon
< 1503229431 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07YABC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52882&oldid=37129 5* 03Int-e 5* (+3744) 10from Brainfuck to YABC
< 1503230393 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/zserik/280f3126e2141d7bad223c3c1e9a1b9d (updated again)
< 1503230459 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets try creating a mash-up of Assignless, first-class continuations (implicit created and passed, usage explicit) and Upsilon.
< 1503230624 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503230677 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503232917 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503233222 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/660/
< 1503233408 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o
< 1503233474 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm working on an esolangs article for assignless + the continuation thing
< 1503233488 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Hitchhiker universe has ships driven by bad news
< 1503233506 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so the more esolangs I create, the more fuel it has?
< 1503233517 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're highly unpopular though)
< 1503233535 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "Bad news: ship ran out of fuel."
< 1503233637 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like "Bad news: the ship is running low on fuel."
< 1503233658 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives it more fuel
< 1503233684 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad news: The ship has too much fuel.
< 1503233689 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1503233706 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then at some point it stops being news
< 1503233711 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts just being *bad*
< 1503233711 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1503233718 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fuel will decrease again.
< 1503233744 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :does good news decrease it then?
< 1503233750 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1503233780 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to use it to create good news to make the world a better place, using the "Bad news: machine is running out of fuel." as fuel
< 1503233784 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I could see the ship not having "fuel" per se, but having to be driven by a constant stream of bad news
< 1503233788 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, instant utopia
< 1503233791 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse news = more thrust?
< 1503233797 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1503233815 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're actually only mentioned in passing
< 1503233849 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read Hitchhiker
< 1503233860 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda surprised I haven't done so yet honestly
< 1503233906 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. The Hingefreel people of Arkintoofle Minor did try to build spaceships that were powered by bad news but they didn't work particularly well and were so extremely unwelcome whenever they arrived anywhere that there wasn't really any point in being there."
< 1503233982 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad news travels faster than the speed of light?
< 1503233996 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean if you frame something as bad news
< 1503233999 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time traveling information
< 1503234014 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerful
< 1503234041 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: did you look at the xkcd link? The way I see it it's really based on that concept.
< 1503234083 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad news: information has to be passed at faster than light speeds again
< 1503234098 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does that qualify as bad?
< 1503234108 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bad news: the magical yay machine is working again"
< 1503234110 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the objective qualification of bad news
< 1503234120 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's subjective to your reference frame
< 1503234121 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503234281 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503234590 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bioly
< 1503234895 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloily!
< 1503234964 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh
< 1503234967 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good moilyng?
< 1503234986 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, boilogy
< 1503234990 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? boily
< 1503234992 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
< 1503235010 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1503235155 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom
< 1503235156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
< 1503235182 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( wisdom is often born out of boredom
< 1503235184 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1503235203 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsellori, rdochelloc, TieSelloul, int-ello, HellockEgo!
< 1503235212 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ø
< 1503235213 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ø is not going anywhere.
< 1503235235 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that settles that
< 1503235271 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Heh, I forgot that I talked about boredom on https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Int-e )
< 1503235388 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdome
< 1503235390 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:TieSoul14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52883&oldid=40229 5* 03TieSoul 5* (-426) 10Replaced content with "I made [[Befunk]] I guess"
< 1503235390 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere".
< 1503235394 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me
< 1503235397 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's better
< 1503235521 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1503235522 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503235522 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eol//EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately.
< 1503235537 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twas brillig
< 1503235657 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The Boredome is a dangerous place swarming with woodpeckers, dentists, and bookworms.
< 1503235660 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'boredome': The Boredome is a dangerous place swarming with woodpeckers, dentists, and bookworms.
< 1503235692 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dentist
< 1503235693 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dentist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503235706 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a master bore
< 1503235740 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is forming dents on various surfaces."
< 1503235777 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503235795 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Dentist Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is creating dents on various surfaces.
< 1503235797 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'dentist': Dentist Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is creating dents on various surfaces.
< 1503235805 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le//rn Dentist//Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is creating dents on various surfaces.
< 1503235807 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'dentist': Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is creating dents on various surfaces.
< 1503235825 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dentist Dentists
< 1503235860 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dentists who are discriminatory to dents
< 1503235867 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bookworms are a species of worm known for thriving in books, feeding from the cellulose in the paper."
< 1503235903 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le//rn bookworm//Bookworms are a species of worm known for thriving in books. They are known to be unusually intelligent.
< 1503235906 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'bookworm': Bookworms are a species of worm known for thriving in books. They are known to be unusually intelligent.
< 1503235923 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Woodpeckers are a class of wooden sculptures, depicting a 'peck' or kiss."
< 1503235939 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop now, before someone calls me out for adding bad wisdom entries.
< 1503236186 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: FWIW, there's auto-pluralization handling -- you can "`learn Dentists are such and such." and it will learn 'dentist'.
< 1503236210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm aware of that but I am more comfortable with //.
< 1503236220 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if a word ends in s
< 1503236234 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: Then you need to use the alternatives.
< 1503236239 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503236247 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't work for nonstandard plurals.
< 1503236258 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1503236288 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonstandard plurals would require more or less encoding a partial dictionary
< 1503236295 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is too much effort for a slight convenience
< 1503236334 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503236396 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, the Telegraph magazine has made me a lot less excited about 4G and 5G, since apparently their speeds top up at 1 and 10 megabits, respectively: https://zem.fi/tmp/telegraph.png
< 1503236448 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure makes it look good with that bar graph though
< 1503236487 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that can't be right
< 1503236525 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah I'm pretty sure 4G is faster than 1Mb/s
< 1503236593 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten >1Mbit/s over 3G (well, one of the standards before LTE using 3G's infrastructure) at least and >20 over LTE
< 1503236618 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1503236620 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they were just ulling arbitrary numbers
< 1503236625 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulling*
< 1503236632 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yeah, the 384 kbit/s is from the original UMTS spec, they've dropped the HSPA steps.
< 1503236651 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before 4G, I seemed to get better results with what my phone OS called "H" connection than with 3G
< 1503236652 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 300 Mbit/s would be the conventional figure for LTE, though I think they've gotten their "1000" from gigabit LTE news.
< 1503236685 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is off by three orders of magnitude then
< 1503236687 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1503236717 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing they just switched from kbit/s to Mbit/s halfway through their chart.
< 1503236728 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: that'd be HSPA or HSPA+ then
< 1503236752 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503236753 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "3.5G" and "3.7G" according to Maemo 5 IIRC
< 1503236765 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool
< 1503236789 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a bit convenient of them to squeeze everything in a genertions scale
< 1503236799 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though using fractional "G"s is unwieldy
< 1503236816 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I think HSPA+ is quite often referred to as "3.75G", but that doesn't fit in a status bar as well.
< 1503236828 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1503236830 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should get rounded to 3.8G then
< 1503236874 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I suppose that'd be slightly misleading
< 1503236937 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the fraction is pretty arbitrary
< 1503236945 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true
< 1503236952 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Maemo used 2.5G for EDGE as well.
< 1503236954 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easier to tell that 3.5 > 3 than "H" > "3G"
< 1503236962 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1503236966 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I believe it did
< 1503236986 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Android phone does G, E, 3G, H, 4G, I think.
< 1503237005 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine uses 3G, H, H+, and 4G. I don't think I've dipped below that.
< 1503237021 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my current phone that is
< 1503237035 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only recall eeing 2G, 3G and 4G on Sailfish I think
< 1503237060 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it uses 2G for both GSM and EDGE etc
< 1503237073 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense I guess
< 1503237089 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to see the easy to compare numbers than to memorize the abbreviations
< 1503237450 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how 5G development is coming along
< 1503237456 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a 5G test rig a couple years ago
< 1503237546 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure exactly what technology, but whatever they were working on at uni two years ago I guess
< 1503237575 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article that bogus graph was from is about UK 5G spectrum auctions, and how a few lawsuits are going to slow them down.
< 1503237578 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/19/bts-mobile-unit-wades-5g-battle-against-three/
< 1503237612 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1503237633 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503237686 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, according to wikipedia, "LTE Advanced Pro (LTE-A Pro, also known as 4.5G, 4.5G Pro, 4.9G, Pre-5G, 5G Project, and so on)"
< 1503237699 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems they're getting progressively more optimistic about LTE-A Pro
< 1503237712 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503237724 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait until 7G
< 1503237847 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: for the longest time LTE was also considered "not quite 4G" until it became defacto 4G
< 1503237863 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, apparently my country is ranked 5th in LTE coverage
< 1503237872 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega-G, anyone?
< 1503237872 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbered generations are as much for marketing as the fractional in-between generations are really
< 1503237883 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I figured fire
< 1503237904 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1503237920 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :LTE coverage is pretty good here, but I dunno how well it ranks on an area-of-country-covered basis
< 1503237928 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :since northern sweden is.. pretty rural
< 1503237934 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like epsilon-zero G, rdococ
< 1503237944 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon-epsilon-one-G
< 1503237952 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I had LTE coverage whilst hiking last week in the mountains, so that's cool :P
< 1503237961 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name for epsilon-epsilon-epsilon-...?
< 1503237962 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland was very low in G's.
< 1503237980 0 :lord_EarlGray1!~slawek@static-dwasiedem-dwapiec0.echostar.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503238033 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :4G - Normalhastighet 10 - 40 Mbit/s
< 1503238033 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :4G+ - Normalhastighet 20 - 60 Mbit/s
< 1503238035 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503238044 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that'sa different technology or if both are just LTE
< 1503238081 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspect they are both LTE
< 1503238085 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speeds are close
< 1503239113 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503239410 0 :lord_EarlGray1!~slawek@static-dwasiedem-dwapiec0.echostar.pl PART #esoteric :
< 1503240273 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503240495 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moony the moony moon!
< 1503240578 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo
< 1503241783 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503242069 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503242383 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :neh
< 1503242477 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuh?
< 1503242527 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hn
< 1503242573 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfbable
< 1503242586 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :honk
< 1503242772 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503244332 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503244364 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1503244529 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zseri
< 1503244633 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503244641 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather sounds nice btw
< 1503244741 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503244852 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: what motivated you to say something like /that/ just after I joined? :-D
< 1503244870 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I've been growing more Feather-resistant over time, I'm starting to come to terms with it a bit more
< 1503244902 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really ticklish
< 1503244932 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if standard user turnover in #esoteric will eventually result in nobody knowing what Feather is except that it's a meme
< 1503245016 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503245041 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503245105 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503245160 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503245190 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Feather clearly comes from a Bird :P
< 1503245593 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've added a translation from Brainfuck to YABC
< 1503245743 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which might be interesting in how it handles skipping of loops... that was my primary inspiration)
< 1503245774 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503245803 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 😎
< 1503245805 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES]
< 1503246050 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee
< 1503246093 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: you should use the whole chicken for the best experience.
< 1503246099 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feather is future-proof.
< 1503246121 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: very much so
< 1503246140 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503246146 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric :"HOLISITC CHICKEN"
< 1503246146 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503246151 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Future.
< 1503246153 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503246155 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 😎
< 1503246156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES]
< 1503246156 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503246176 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how does that handle nested loops?
< 1503246179 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really wishes he could stumble on an original idea for once.

< 1503246190 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by moving further to the left.
< 1503246346 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the pointer is somewhere in the 41 -37 ... 41 -37 part, pointing to a 41 if scanning to the left or to a -37 if scanning to the right; the further nested the loops, the further left the pointer will be in that part.
< 1503246402 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you're using the position of the data pointer to track the nesting level, not the position of the instruction pointer
< 1503246407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1503246409 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how I'd expected it'd be done
< 1503246438 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows me to have a very uniform (if inefficient) trranslation.
< 1503246473 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503246483 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 😎
< 1503246484 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES]
< 1503246492 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will not get better over Time.
< 1503246493 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503246506 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 😎
< 1503246508 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES]
< 1503246511 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs

< 1503246528 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: I don't see the actual character and there are many smileyds
< 1503246539 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should switch to privmsg, perhaps
< 1503246556 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: originality is an itch. you can't strike it, just scratch it. find what irks you. what are your wishes? what are your "man, it'd be so nice to have..."?
< 1503246715 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: come to think of it, there's probably a construction which uses the value of a tape element
< 1503246744 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put the nesting level directly on the tape, and use it as a value to branch on to see if you've gon far enough yet
< 1503246746 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I don't have much of an idea, to be honest. Sometimes, something looks like an appealing idea to me, and then it loses its subjective value over time.
< 1503246819 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started writing a small Rust program to learn the language
< 1503246835 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and already ended up doing heavy amounts of type-level metaprogramming and had an idea for a new language feature and a new optimisation
< 1503246951 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503246959 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: True.
< 1503246971 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea that functions could be manipulated by a program as a linked list of statements, with expressions that could be modified on the fly
< 1503246980 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type-Safety ♥
< 1503246988 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example, say we have a function f. f[1] is the first statement, f[2] second, etc.
< 1503246988 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ♥
< 1503246989 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2665 BLACK HEART SUIT]
< 1503246995 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah
< 1503247003 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old 4-Letter-Codes.  😎
< 1503247024 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :say f[5] was an if conditional - then f[5].condition would be the condition, f[5].ifblock would be another list of statements, f[5].elseblock, and then f[6] after it.
< 1503247059 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, explain what feather is
< 1503247083 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather
< 1503247088 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I can't; the wiki page may help
< 1503247102 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a very rough approximation, it's an esolang I started to write, couldn't pin down the details
< 1503247116 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then got really upset because not only did nobody else understand my esolang, I didn't understand it either
< 1503247139 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: explore the idea. build a working prototype. draft sketches on random pieces of paper. doodle. have a feel for it. where shall it lead?
< 1503247151 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually misread „moony“ as „money“, lol.

< 1503247162 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: a working prototype? I can't even do that.
< 1503247163 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes insane thinking about feather

< 1503247168 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very maddening because looking at individual parts of it, it feels like it /should/ work, and yet I can't grasp the whole, and even when just focusing on individual parts, there's always complications which means you can't pin down exactly how they work
< 1503247193 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, if you'd let us look at individual parts, we could help
< 1503247197 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do it like i do it: implement and test each little bit at a time, with little/no order lol
< 1503247210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, I don't want to go mad either :P
< 1503247214 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I don't understand any of them either :-(
< 1503247225 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have worked out the correct order in which to approach them, I think
< 1503247228 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i volunteer my brain
< 1503247236 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yes you can.
< 1503247242 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so i can figure out what it is
< 1503247242 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: you can?
< 1503247245 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my Feather-related work has been on what must be the first step: to work out a language that it's theoretically possible to implement Feather in
< 1503247260 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1503247268 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( aka, Feather? )
< 1503247270 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than Feather itself, that is
< 1503247282 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need to get started somehow
< 1503247282 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503247293 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony talks, People listen.
< 1503247301 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah but how do you know it won't be precursors to Feather all the way down...
< 1503247305 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1503247313 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the looks of the unfinished article, it does sound like a cool concept
< 1503247318 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503247323 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have a working proto-Feather interpreter (i.e. one that implements Feather but doesn't fulfil all the provenance restrictions needed to be a Feather interpreter), you can then retroactively change it to have been written in Feather itself
< 1503247330 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good morning to you
< 1503247345 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another of the steps where I think I know how it works but I don't have a working set of precise details
< 1503247347 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well first, we need to build a time machine and put a computer inside it with a link to the time machine
< 1503247385 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what, I'm going to borrow Feather's specification from the future, brb.
< 1503247387 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we need to solve the halting problem so ais523's brain wont asplode
< 1503247388 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: good afternoon
< 1503247399 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :done we made feather
< 1503247407 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :halting problem is easy to solve - use Banana Scheme
< 1503247412 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the language in which the proto-Feather interpreter is written needs the following properties: functional with minimal side effects (nothing beyond what you need to communicate with the user, and ideally not even that); a working call/cc; an eigenratio of 1, ideally for all idiomatic interpreters rather than just one of them; a syntax simple enough that self-interpreting is easy
< 1503247424 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :eigenratio?
< 1503247424 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb rewriting ais523 in banana scheme
< 1503247431 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and ideally it wouldn't go into an infinite loop just because the program mentioned one
< 1503247438 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait how do i write things in banana scheme
< 1503247444 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: imagine running a program through a large stack of self-interpreters
< 1503247466 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional and call/cc is easy
< 1503247471 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, minimal side effects? hmm. you may have to make a entire new language for that
< 1503247480 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the eigenratio, and the infinite loop thing - maybe not :P
< 1503247480 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eigenratio is the amount of slowdown you get by adding another interpreter to the stack, expressed as a ratio between the execution times
< 1503247497 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. why don't you want it to speed up?
< 1503247509 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other words, eigenvalue < 1)
< 1503247517 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/eigenvalue/eigenratio/
< 1503247521 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: it's clearly impossible to get an eigenratio < 1, because that means that the more self-interpreters you had in the stack, the faster it would get
< 1503247533 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you could create an arbitrarily fast impl via stacking an arbitrary number of interps
< 1503247551 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and necessarily outpacing the "programming speed of light" for the computer you were running on
< 1503247556 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@pool-173-61-30-116.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503247560 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, go make a fork of the rust compiler. i think (tm) it has a eignratio of 1
< 1503247570 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eigenratio = 1 is possible if each level of self-interpreters only adds a constant time
< 1503247570 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler is written to be compiled by itself
< 1503247577 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: most compilers have eigenratio 1 :-P
< 1503247605 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the most promising approach to writing an eigenratio-1 interpreter is to have it work as a compiler + eval
< 1503247606 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a self-interpreter that writes the code to be interpreted to the current file, and then restarts the file.
< 1503247624 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like Lua's load().
< 1503247644 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, go ask in #xkcd. they're esoteric enough to help maybe? :P
< 1503247659 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if the compiler is being freshly compiled, doesn't that give it eigenratio > 1?
< 1503247662 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just claiming this now: inb4 brainfuck but with more instructions
< 1503247663 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I think a simple eval() would do
< 1503247697 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: the point is that if you repeatedly compile the compiler with itself, then eventually run a different program with the final compiler in the chain
< 1503247700 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program doesn't run any slower
< 1503247704 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ohh ok
< 1503247711 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you were including the time to compile the compilers
< 1503247717 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each layer of compiler didn't give you a slowdown of a factor, but a slowdown of a constant amount of time, which doesn't show up on the ratio
< 1503247811 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is memory usage counted as a side effect?
< 1503247852 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: hmm, I guess for this to work it needs to avoid using notable extra memory for each level of self-interps, too
< 1503247877 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's probably OK to have a Feather interpreter that crashes due to memory loss, or gets very slow after a while, at least to start with
< 1503247882 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, well your 'functional with minimal side effects' requirement seems to be fulfilled by unlambda.
< 1503247885 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could perhaps optimize it later? maybe even retroactively?
< 1503247904 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Unlambda actually does very well in a number of categories as a language in which to write Feather
< 1503247910 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its main drawback is being almost impossible to write in
< 1503247926 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not make a abstraction of unlambda?
< 1503247931 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, actually, it's not that hard to write but is hard to do anything else with)
< 1503247939 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, let me see how that could be done... hrm.
< 1503248010 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so user output as only side effect? leme think
< 1503248014 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat unlambda as an asm it's not that bad
< 1503248036 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I think I've figured out how to do I/O in a pure functional language without making evaluation order visible
< 1503248055 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the general issue of doing I/O in Feather is a pretty awkward one, especially output
< 1503248060 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, ...Damn, you got me into a feather problem
< 1503248066 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after you've output something, you can retroactively change things so that you didn't output it
< 1503248076 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: really, I recommend not thinking about it
< 1503248091 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the problem actually is unsolvable!
< 1503248102 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, talking through this here has helped, because it's making Feather seem less possible rather than more
< 1503248109 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who knows. if it is this could be a issue with modern mathematics......
< 1503248122 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't worry, I'm already mad, I think I might be able to solve it (after trying everything else first :P)
< 1503248122 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not feather, but our form of mathematics and logic
< 1503248154 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we can use anger to disguse our thoughts so the universe doesnt notice us thinking about feather.
< 1503248187 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1503248208 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, hey, its worth trying.
< 1503248227 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sorry, but anger has the opposite effect hth
< 1503248279 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hth
< 1503248280 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
< 1503248285 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhelpful as usual
< 1503248296 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hambiguitous
< 1503248296 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right 'hope that helps'
< 1503248297 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
< 1503248378 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503248382 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, would a feeling of calm help? Cats make calmness. *prepares to flood chatroom with kittens*
< 1503248386 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Boobies
< 1503248387 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boobies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503248390 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :🙌
< 1503248490 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52884&oldid=52881 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-238) 10You failed to discuss this in the right place hth
< 1503248548 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably discussed it on the discord server :-P
< 1503248565 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, a "discord server" isn't actually a server, it's more like a channel
< 1503248596 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: probably
< 1503248973 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i figured out this: Feather is likely a purely functional language that is self interperting with minimal/no side effects
< 1503248996 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and throwing the word "retroactively" around a lot
< 1503249008 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. "	in Feather, you create objects by cloning+modification, and if you retroactively change the parent object, that changes all its decendants, so it comes to the same thing"
< 1503249017 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually sounds coo.
< 1503249018 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :l
< 1503249056 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if it wasn't a cool language I don't think I'd have spent this much mental effort on it
< 1503249081 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Feather itself (as opposed to the language in which it's originally implemented) sort-of has side effects because a retroactive change is similar to an assignment in that sense
< 1503249082 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have any more feather info? :P lets see if we can try and piece it together. Communal brainpower only thinking about PARTS cant be as bad as thinking about the WHOLE
< 1503249110 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: or let me think about the WHOLE, because I'm already INSANE :P
< 1503249112 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one big problem is "how do you encapsulate things well enough that a retroactive change doesn't create an infinite loop"
< 1503249116 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I retroactively change something to itself
< 1503249126 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather does that by going back in time to the point at which it was created, changing nothing
< 1503249127 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this retroactive change, first of all?
< 1503249131 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then running hte program from there
< 1503249160 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: you can define the core operation pretty easily; when an object is "created" it gets a handle (which is probably just a continuation) that describes the object
< 1503249175 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can retroactively change the object via using the handle; it replaces what the object was at the time it was created
< 1503249178 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, object continuations?
< 1503249181 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically what call/cc already does
< 1503249190 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1503249210 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so the idea is you have a continuation on an object, but you implement that via call/cc at the time the object's created
< 1503249239 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i assume once its done it goes back in time to program start and gives output immediately?
< 1503249240 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you later want to change what the object was, you use the continuation to rewind back to the time it was created
< 1503249247 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put a different object (taken from the future) there instead
< 1503249259 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: not necessarily, although that's an interesting idea
< 1503249287 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just use up the needed compute time, or even cut program execution out of the timeline entirely, making it have no side effects (in essence)
< 1503249300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is basically a "chunkstream" that works like Easy; it's a program followed by input to it, but the program is meant to be a self-interpreter (or approximately so) so it recognises the input as more code to run
< 1503249324 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1503249336 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole notion of retroactively replacing the whole program execution with the output does actually solve most of the major problems with the output, though
< 1503249424 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, your welcome :)
< 1503249455 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :im happy to not erase that moment frm the timeline and keep it to myself as long as you dont do the same
< 1503249548 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: so I don't have an actual time machine
< 1503249553 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ideally, when you retroactively change something in Feather
< 1503249575 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's carefully crafted so that the change has no visible effect until the moment you tried to go back in time and change it
< 1503249592 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just keep a state tracker. Sure it'll eat memory like hell by keeping track of all timelines, but it'll do the job for a theoretical system
< 1503249616 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tracking state isn't a panacea here
< 1503249686 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, i swear i'll erase you from the timeline /s
< 1503249693 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be my guest ;)
< 1503249705 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if they realise this universe is a program on moonys computer

< 1503249714 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1503249728 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope they noticed.
< 1503249746 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares timeline wipe before remembering it only creates a new branch, he fucked this timeline up

< 1503249746 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Can moony use the program to give me lots of money?
< 1503249759 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, no
< 1503249762 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1503249777 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in 'i refuse to go through the effort of making a template'
< 1503249782 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can moony use the program to metaprogram, so he can generate code that gives me the ability to give myself lots of money?
< 1503249793 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, no
< 1503249803 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503249806 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to give you a shitty life hack
< 1503249807 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can moony prove that the universe is on his computer?
< 1503249822 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, sure. You now no longer exist in the branch of this timeline.
< 1503249828 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a branch tho
< 1503249831 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :YaaaaY!
< 1503249833 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you exist here because i cant undo it.
< 1503249835 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Phœnix-Feathers pwn. At least in the final Fantasies.  😎
< 1503249844 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Sad but true.
< 1503249859 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you remove APic from another branch in the timeline?
< 1503249863 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, done
< 1503249868 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :YaY!
< 1503249870 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: In my Dreams, probably.
< 1503249877 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i deleted everyone assosiated eith #esoteric in another timeline besides me.
< 1503249883 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Also, in other Branches, my Nick is actually „ACTPic“.
< 1503249889 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, can you force APic's current subconscious to enter the timeline in which he does not exist?
< 1503249899 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, i refuse
< 1503249899 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sub//
< 1503249903 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1503249907 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcuz its mean
< 1503249918 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, true.
< 1503249930 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: hmm, the translation used for the English versions of Final Fantasies is "Phoenix Down", but I know that several details, both major and minor, are different in different language versions
< 1503249938 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, i'll force APic from 10 seconds ago to branch off and then be shoved into the timeline where he doesnt exist
< 1503249941 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there may well be a language where they're phœnix feathers insetead
< 1503249971 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tip: your 'feather' language will be awesome according to this timeline over here, from 2 years ago.
< 1503249983 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Can you create a branch in the timeline which has developed the technology necessary to broadcast information across branches - even to branches which don't have the technology necessary to receive those messages?
< 1503250001 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: well, Feather's time-travel model is basically one in which retroactively changing something destroys your current timeline and recreates it via replaying from that point with the change
< 1503250006 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, that'd make the program crash. do you want that? (:
< 1503250008 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( At each time step, the universe is recreated from scratch. The trick is to make it appear smooth and efficient. )
< 1503250021 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Ooh! I want to know what it feels like to crash!
< 1503250021 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a timeloop if the retroactive change happens again in the new timeline, thus you need every change to somehow negate the fact it was made
< 1503250029 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, eeexxxaaaccctttllly
< 1503250039 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, it means you no longer exist. in every timeline. forever.
< 1503250051 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Is the crash local to me, or global?
< 1503250065 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :psst, someone kline him and scramble the DNS cache so he thinks i deleted freenode
< 1503250072 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1503250104 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moony, I'll still have these logs.
< 1503250107 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not dumb.
< 1503250123 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, oh right. Oh well.
< 1503250133 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am pretty stupid.
< 1503250138 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are italics standard on IRC nowadays?
< 1503250142 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if onyl i could disable the auto timeline split safety feature.
< 1503250146 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client interprets tab as toggle-italics, but I thought most didn't
< 1503250158 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure they are. altho tab italics is NOT standard
< 1503250169 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client uses ctrl+i for italics
< 1503250175 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client doesnt even let me enter a tab
< 1503250181 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does mine
< 1503250195 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: control-I /is/ a tab
< 1503250196 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even sure where it tabs to
< 1503250213 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh. ok it is standard then.
< 1503250214 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't, they are two distinct characters
< 1503250216 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I just realized that thing int-e keeps doing is a thought bubble
< 1503250219 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like control-J is a newline, control-M is a carriage return, control-[ is escape, etc.
< 1503250221 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...can't believe I didn't see that earlier
< 1503250230 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul, wonder what took you so long
< 1503250236 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :	I copied and pasted tabs from a text editor. see? not italic.	
< 1503250243 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know right
< 1503250260 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type italics with ctrl-i too
< 1503250275 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :bolditalicunderline4color
< 1503250288 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: it used to be that copy-pasted tabs would italicise on this client
< 1503250295 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh
< 1503250333 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways back to feather
< 1503250337 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any known syntax?
< 1503250370 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I can't remember the details, but the intention was that it should be similar to Smalltalk but work for different reasons
< 1503250404 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a b" would normally call method b on a, but if a was "unboxed" it'd provide b as an argument to a
< 1503250425 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some method you could call on things to get an unboxed version of them, but I can't remember whether it was ^ or #
< 1503250430 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever one you'd use in that situation in Smalltalk
< 1503250461 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe ^ is return in Smalltalk
< 1503250464 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the method name for the low-level retroactive change was <<=
< 1503250475 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, you guys are lucky. this is timeline '0' persay
< 1503250497 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branchporting pwnd in the NetHacks.
< 1503250533 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We had the Phönixfeders in the Germanies, at least so i believe.
< 1503250536 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: so did you create timeline 0 with everyone in it, or...?
< 1503250545 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if so, why do I exist here
< 1503250564 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, how do you think it started? Im not going to spend milleniums handcrafting a universe. i let it do its thing.
< 1503250604 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: if you think it's such a bad idea to spend millenia hand-crafting a universe, maybe you should tell the kinds of people who hand-craft universes for fun!
< 1503250635 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, its not a bad idea. i just dont wanna spend it. even if i DO live several billion years.
< 1503250645 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503250684 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric
< 1503250686 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
< 1503250690 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall some universe that had a world on the back of a giant turtle that had 3-4 elephants on it... I also remember leaking it into this world by mistake
< 1503250700 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might wanna revise that. its so much more now.
< 1503250705 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I've fallen into the wrong #esoteric by mistake :-P
< 1503250715 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lol
< 1503250715 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: discworld?
< 1503250723 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, i refuse to say
< 1503250730 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: OOP language where methods themselves are objects
< 1503250732 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I preferred it when it was mostly about programming
< 1503250733 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now back on topic before i blow you to bits
< 1503250739 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah.
< 1503250745 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the offtopic discussion is much less objectionable than it was a couple of decades ago
< 1503250754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, more like 1½
< 1503250754 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, theoreticals are fun too! 
< 1503250777 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up leaving #esoteric for long periods of time because I just wasn't interested in the topics it normally discussed
< 1503250785 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1503250796 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats normal. #xkcd is better anyways :P
< 1503250838 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion of every kind there. from the comic to space-time 
< 1503250874 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and hppa lurks there. hasnt been here in a while has he
< 1503250890 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not lurks, really, he's a active talker)
< 1503250900 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw him yesterday, i think
< 1503250921 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, joining.
< 1503251145 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :A housemate taught me a cool way to represent scenes for graphicsy stuff yesterday
< 1503251157 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :As functions from points to the distance to the closest surface
< 1503251169 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can take the union of two scenes with, like, liftA2 min
< 1503251184 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, signed distance functions
< 1503251192 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're neat
< 1503251208 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah!
< 1503251213 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, i have a suspicion: are you named after the show/movie/book/whateveritis
< 1503251229 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: no
< 1503251234 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :common misconseption
< 1503251235 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed FireFly was an aquatic insect
< 1503251238 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :misconception too
< 1503251245 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://iquilezles.org/www/articles/distfunctions/distfunctions.htm
< 1503251246 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o
< 1503251272 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a nice collections of primitives and tricks for sdf's
< 1503251282 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :raymarching is fun :)
< 1503251346 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if you take the derivative of the signed norm function at a surface point, you get the surface's normal
< 1503251400 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so you can use an approximation of the gradient (like central difference) to get the normal
< 1503251405 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :handy for light computations
< 1503251486 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been working on something that uses automatic differentiation for that today
< 1503251544 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me
< 1503251589 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I find Sundays difficult because I tend to forget to drink
< 1503251606 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: just hold your breath
< 1503251623 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that doesn't work
< 1503251654 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: well the underlying theory is sound.
< 1503251675 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway...
< 1503251685 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: why sundays in particular?
< 1503251719 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I learned about the idea of automatic differentiation a while ago, it seems like it'd be really handy for that, yeah
< 1503251742 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, my office has a sink that I can see from my desk, so I remember to drink Mondays through Fridays
< 1503251743 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cases when the distance function is possible to express neatly
< 1503251748 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1503251751 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : what's the name for epsilon-epsilon-epsilon-...? <-- phi_2(0) iiuc.
< 1503251786 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503251810 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that certainly sounds like it could be it
< 1503251815 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_function although it's pretty dense.
< 1503251835 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I'm a bit crap at looking after myself today tbh :(
< 1503251841 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, in fact
< 1503251877 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1503251885 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think you're right
< 1503251892 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1zEo7DD8w  ← this from Revision earlier this year is pretty cool, LJ (to the right) is livecoding a scene expressed as an sdf and rendering it with raymarching in half an hour
< 1503252023 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(leave it to demosceners to do crazy stuff like that in half an hour :P)
< 1503252083 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the housemate who told me about this is into demoscene
< 1503252103 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503252127 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played a bit with raymarching and distance fields, but not enough..
< 1503252705 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I'm thinking about it I'm going to get a drink
< 1503252710 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1503252724 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an OO language where even the methods are objects?
< 1503252775 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-80-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503252776 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you could try keeping a bottle of water by the desk
< 1503252783 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could try getting addicted to tea, I find that works pretty well too
< 1503252788 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ais523 has me trapped trying to figure out how to make a precursor functional language feather could be implemented in
< 1503252813 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to; feel free to stop thinking about it if you like!
< 1503252822 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. never
< 1503252862 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I really don't like the taste of tea
< 1503252891 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503252894 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the bottle suggestion might work
< 1503253537 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION explodes

< 1503253799 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploding moons are so last century
< 1503254159 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i don't recall ais523 ever explaining, is what's supposed to happen if you replace an object with something that _contains_ the original, but isn't identical to it.
< 1503254183 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might wanna explain that... could be a issue. dont want to crash the universe do we?
< 1503254185 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can smuggle back objects from previous timelines like that
< 1503254192 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the new-timeline object contains the old-timeline object
< 1503254208 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from before the retroactive replacement
< 1503254211 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old-timeline object would be modified in the old timeline right?
< 1503254221 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old timeline no longer exists
< 1503254242 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you make a retroactive change, that /always/ ends the current timeline, and starts from a new timeline that branched off from the previously current timeline at the point at which the object was created
< 1503254249 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what happens if you write to the old timeline object which supposedly should be gone
< 1503254255 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's only one timeline at a time
< 1503254290 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: there is a consistent answer to this, but I'm not 100% sure offhand what it is
< 1503254300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, think of it in terms of call/cc
< 1503254303 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best conversation to happen here in months
< 1503254312 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikr
< 1503254337 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you create an object, you do so within a call/cc function, the function that's called/cc takes the continuation and adds it to a field of the object, then returns the object
< 1503254377 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that means that if you have a smuggled object then you also have its timeline, through its continuation.
< 1503254379 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to retroactively change the object, you take the continuation (which you can access because it's in a field of the object), and give it the new object as an argument (thus effectively rerunning the program from the point at which the object was created)
< 1503254408 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, this is indeed correct, although you only have the timeline at the point the object was created
< 1503254416 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess there's only one active timeline at a time, but you can have plenty of dormant timelines
< 1503254419 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh, how would a self referencing object behave?
< 1503254434 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I don't believe it's possible to create a self-referencing object in Feather
< 1503254446 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk
< 1503254457 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have any way to change the current value of a field, only retroactively change the object's value at creation time
< 1503254487 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the equivalent of "an object reference" is "an object's continuation", as that's the only thing that differs between an object and a clone of an object; but an object has its own continuation available already
< 1503254511 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, I don't think you can reasonably get mad at me for not knowing how Feather works :-P
< 1503254515 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant you just go back in time, put the object inside its own field, and have a recursive object?
< 1503254536 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: no, then the object has a copy of itself from the /previous/ timeline
< 1503254541 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not an exact copy of itself
< 1503254550 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503254556 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, if you follow the chain of objects, it'll bottom out because you'll reach a timeline in which the object didn't self-reference
< 1503254565 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think not being reasonable is one of the characteristic features of going mad.
< 1503254576 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however! you can have an object that tracks the number of nesting levels you want
< 1503254590 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use accessor functions for the nested copies which, if they don't find a nested copy, retroactively increase the number of nesting levels
< 1503254592 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they can give you one
< 1503254617 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this allows you to have an object that's observationally indistinguishable from one with an infinite number of nested copies of itself from previous timelines
< 1503254651 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have a logical system to express this in?
< 1503254659 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can also (probably? as usual, I'm unsure as to the details) do this with Feather interpreters, allowing you to have a Feather interpreter that's written in Feather and which runs using a chain of interpreters that's observationally indistinguishable from infinitely large
< 1503254665 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: no
< 1503254695 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives you really powerful introspection properties, as if you need a new debug feature, you can just retroactively add it to the interpreter and the feature is now there
< 1503254769 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503254782 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have a hard time finding pieces of history to discard though, which is a bit ironic for something that wants to be a light-weight smalltalk
< 1503254836 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, "how is it possible to make all of this not incredibly inefficient and getting slower as the program runs" is a major problem
< 1503254853 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I guess it can be lightweight in syntax and language features required to be sufficiently powerful, and yet still almost impossible to run in practice?
< 1503254884 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ...wow, i just got trapped in a logical paradox: If i were to be erased permanantly from the timeline, would i notice? Intersects heavily with the 'where does the brain go after death if anywhere' problem
< 1503254891 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels to me like having a formal logic might be a useful stepping stone, though making a self-modifying logic may be no easier I guess
< 1503254892 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503254894 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503254927 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: from my point of view, the time travel mechanics are the /least/ confusing part, I just use the call/cc-based definition
< 1503254935 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh, fair
< 1503254946 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :😎
< 1503254949 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, call/cc is fairly confusing as operations go, but once you understand it everything else is fairly straightforward
< 1503254957 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :,o0(Call Collect.)
< 1503254973 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :0800-333-42 42 here in the Germanies.
< 1503254977 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1503254979 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, there's a fairly simple definition in terms of fork(1) and blocking I/O operations that's clearly insane from an efficiency point of view but is very simple to understand)
< 1503254982 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe another 42 at the End.
< 1503254983 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno.
< 1503255000 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1503255005 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: huh, free-to-call phone numbers are 0800 in Germany too? I'm a bit surprised, because that's also the prefix for them in the UK
< 1503255019 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's a EU norm
< 1503255023 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To dial in the united Kingdom for free, we would need 00800.
< 1503255023 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be 0130
< 1503255027 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: True.
< 1503255059 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure when that was phased out, 15 or so years ago?)
< 1503255078 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot…   remember…     the…     Past…
< 1503255085 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :,o0(Must not.)
< 1503255162 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :End of 2000, lucky guess.
< 1503255165 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK is shit
< 1503255202 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1503255211 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not quite like that they separated from the EU again.

< 1503255220 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we haven't yet
< 1503255221 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the UK is shit
< 1503255223 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :With their Pounds and Stuff…
< 1503255226 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1503255227 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 48% of Brits don't like it either
< 1503255231 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thanks for Telling.
< 1503255233 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a very close referendum
< 1503255233 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is news to me.
< 1503255234 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :🙌
< 1503255238 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/new/New/
< 1503255257 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to what will soon become corporate hell if Theresa May gets her way (heh, rhyme)
< 1503255295 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503255306 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Theresa May is only prime minister because nobody else both a) actually wants the job and b) has the support of enough MPs that they wouldn't immediately be removed if they became Prime Minister
< 1503255340 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :,o0(Mana-Points…)
< 1503255341 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what about the Labour party?
< 1503255371 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be part b)?
< 1503255377 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503255381 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: they fail b), there are enough MPs in parties who strongly dislike Labour that they would be able to vote out any Prime Minister from that party
< 1503255413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the fundamental rules of being the prime minister is that you need the confidence of at least half the MPs
< 1503255415 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but none of them trust the Tories anymore
< 1503255426 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: most of them /are/ the Tories
< 1503255437 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I agree that many Tories don't trust each other
< 1503255471 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and let's not forget that DUP thing
< 1503255502 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup, dup.
< 1503255526 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote democrats
< 1503255528 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1503255530 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote democratic
< 1503255531 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :701)  Why does CL get called functional?   it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic.
< 1503255544 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote election
< 1503255544 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :529)  Hulu's movie selection is like MST3K without the MST3K characters. \ 944) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election   ais523, the lib dems
< 1503255581 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean by lost.
< 1503255614 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that quote is older than the most recent election, i think.
< 1503255620 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503255660 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coalition government was actually the best government we've had for a while IMO
< 1503255666 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag quotes | grep 'challenges the americans'
< 1503255669 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seriously think so?
< 1503255673 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2267:2013-02-26  addquote * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election   ais523, the lib dems
< 1503255706 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :tories seem to really like privatization - or at least the tories that currently control the party do
< 1503255713 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: they didn't screw a whole load up (and most of what they did was the conservatives backstabbing the lib dems to make them less popular)
< 1503255728 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro-privatization is a standard Conservative position, I think
< 1503255784 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :privatization helps to perpetuate the rich-poor divid
< 1503255785 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1503255794 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least what we've seen of it
< 1503255848 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( privatization is for when you want to have things run to the ground, not when you want to conserve them )
< 1503255890 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :privatization paves the way for cyberpunk
< 1503255891 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I don't think there's ever been a political party who's name's been accurate for more than a century or so
< 1503255994 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main argument in favour of privitization is that history has shown that the British government is fairly bad at running sections of the economy itself
< 1503255997 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 241
< 1503255997 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :241)  shit would make great currency, because everyone would have it and you could literally be filthy rich
< 1503256016 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 941
< 1503256016 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :941)  I stand by the argument that fungot is the one making the most sense in this channel.
< 1503256037 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wouldn't leave it to for-profit organizations either
< 1503256038 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pats fungot

< 1503256039 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so, hey, it was our table! if he's interested, he'll push it back to your side. the salt shaker over to their side, this means that, for all intents and purposes
< 1503256053 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs fungot

< 1503256053 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: but in a metaphorical sense. what metaphor would that be, exactly? presents dino never coexisted! your interaction could have dire repercussions. it could tear you apart, and the person in a book, and what's more, it's a book about a tugboat that employs superseded scientific theories for locomotion!
< 1503256071 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does fungot generate malformed lines like that?
< 1503256071 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: in this fallacy, t-rex? i am so happy! it's impossible, utahraptor." then, hey presto, you're a muslim!
< 1503256080 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit
< 1503256097 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` tail -n1 <(cat -n quote)
< 1503256098 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: quote: No such file or directory
< 1503256102 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` tail -n1 <(cat -n quotes)
< 1503256103 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​  1313	 IMO, the best thing to do with wisdom is ignore it
< 1503256118 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: fungot's sentences only locally make sense, it basically aims for each stretch of n words (where n would typically be around 3) to make sense individually and has no idea of where the sentence as a whole is going
< 1503256118 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you you're going trick-or-treating this year, a balloon! the balloon goes up some of the way, we can consider the real question, which is a good thing! stupid problems? that is hilarious right
< 1503256132 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503256150 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1503256150 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1503256151 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to change n?
< 1503256166 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1503256166 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1503256169 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, that'd be very tricky I imagine
< 1503256180 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with how Markov chains are implemented?
< 1503256191 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: well the whole model is kind of static; fizzie is tuning the knobs which probably involves picking n.
< 1503256212 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503256220 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.. I forgot aboutt this esolang. (its one i made, and can only be computed by solving the halting problem)
< 1503256221 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/HBL
< 1503256232 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :models come out of variKN, IIRC: https://github.com/vsiivola/variKN
< 1503256318 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea of incorporating floats into brainfuck using some command.
< 1503256323 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think n might be slightly variable, too?
< 1503256352 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a / command to take the left branch in the surreal number tree?
< 1503256506 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think mindscrew could do with an additional feature like non-integers?
< 1503256553 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, it's hard to know what features should and shouldn't be in BF derivatives
< 1503256579 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, atm mindscrew is a derivative of pbrain with its own procedure tape and procedure pointer
< 1503256859 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1503257541 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503257688 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503257775 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the idea is that there would be two new commands: / and *. / would take the left branch in the surreal number tree, * the right branch. (if it's at the top, it just adds one). here -> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Surreal_number_tree.svg
< 1503257794 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so +/ results in one half, ++/ results in one and a half, etc.
< 1503257818 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :+/* is 3/4, +/*/ would be 5/8
< 1503257820 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have ways to undo that, too?
< 1503257827 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1503257827 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you do one and undo another
< 1503257839 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'd probably be one to go up the tree
< 1503257842 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that the only way to read a value in BF in a way that affects control flow is to bring it back to zero
< 1503257848 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have two downs and one up, then the two downs are equivalent
< 1503257884 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ to branch left, * to branch right, and ^ to branch up, maybe?
< 1503257914 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, what if we used those as the only commands, disregarding + and -?
< 1503257921 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so if you have two downs and one up, then the two downs are equivalent
< 1503257934 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "down"?
< 1503257946 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about going the left branch, the right branch, and up
< 1503258008 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :having one up operation also means a [^] loop will always set the cell to 0, which is interesting
< 1503258012 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 is at the top of the tree)
< 1503258037 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :left and right are both opposites of up, thus down
< 1503258047 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that / and * are observationally equivalent
< 1503258051 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503258055 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to distinguish between them from within the language
< 1503258060 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah.
< 1503258068 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only way to get an [] loop to exit would be to ^ enough to take it back to zero
< 1503258081 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum.
< 1503258223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503258684 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover.
< 1503258690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo
< 1503258716 0 :zseri!5e86d9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.217.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503258894 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ẙåẘẙ
< 1503258895 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1E99 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH RING ABOVE] [U+00E5 LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE] [U+1E98 LATIN SMALL LETTER W WITH RING ABOVE] [U+1E99 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH RING ABOVE]
< 1503258961 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503259444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503259654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503259654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host
< 1503259654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503259844 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode h̄ů
< 1503259844 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0304 COMBINING MACRON] [U+016F LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH RING ABOVE]
< 1503259871 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo
< 1503260259 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :YaY
< 1503261131 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503261160 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:5502:45fb:bd0d:b9a2 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503261471 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi imode
< 1503262062 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rdococ.
< 1503262444 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented editable floating point format.
< 1503262518 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is stored by 40-bits, consisting of a unsigned 34-bit integer, a sign bit, and a 5-bit number of decimal places (0=no decimal places but the dot is still included, 1-29=that many decimal places, 30=divide by zero, 31=no decimal places and no dot)
< 1503262523 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1503262728 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimal places?
< 1503262748 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503262757 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in decimal
< 1503262774 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The integer part is stored in binary though)
< 1503262846 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, the intention is that it will be converted to IEEE format when you are doing calculations with it; the editable format is only for editing, and there are multiple ways of representing the same number)
< 1503263006 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have a specific option to divide by zero?
< 1503263027 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To represent positive and negative infinity, and NaN.
< 1503263045 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1503263083 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to change it so that almost all of those patterns are NaN, other than a specific pattern each for +∞ and -∞
< 1503263380 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could, although the way I have it now just seem simpler to convert to IEEE format, since the "number of decimal places" field can index a table of what to divide by.
< 1503263537 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The sign bit can also be taken together with the number of decimal places field to index such a table, if wanted)
< 1503264347 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1503265684 0 :MDead!?@? NICK :MDude
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< 1503273621 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503274736 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503275017 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did u know, that in addition to being a mathematician, mandelbrot is also a delicious almond flavoured cookie?
< 1503275229 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :benoit was an entity of many talents
< 1503275444 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastries are fundamentally mathematical
< 1503275493 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i did, since i somewhat understand german
< 1503275523 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also since the norwegian cognate is mandelbrød)
< 1503275537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i may not have known it was a cookie specifically.
< 1503275644 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and going from the google hits, the norwegian word doesn't refer to that.
< 1503275725 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll have to summarize that as "no".
< 1503278900 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily helloerjan hichaf
< 1503278906 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloren
< 1503279171 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintophia
< 1503279522 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now has the rust compiler enviornment working in his linux sandbox bot for the users to use)

< 1503279629 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonythedwarf, lol better be a good sandbox
< 1503279658 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. Using same sandbox as HackEgo over there
< 1503279729 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503280021 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503280094 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503280102 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsoœøırjan, QUINTHELLOPIA, mhelloonythellodwarf, ^hellov.
< 1503280270 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bhelloily
< 1503282141 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503282264 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same oren
< 1503282354 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/
< 1503282393 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have said "nope, must be a different oren" on the other server.
< 1503282470 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1503282738 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will only perceive different orens depending on your clearance level. unauthorized access entails class A amnestics.
< 1503282836 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually only one oren, and that oren is only connected to one server, but it's possible to "see" oren on multiple different servers due to optical effects.
< 1503282848 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know. Internet refraction and all that.
< 1503282877 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, I'm only connected to my website's server, and then the irc program is running on that.
< 1503282897 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? \oren\
< 1503282898 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... unenthickenable, eh?
< 1503282904 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet refraction?
< 1503282942 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd \oren\//s/attempt/optical attempt/
< 1503282943 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\oren\//\oren\ is an optical attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... unenthickenable, eh?
< 1503283000 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hezzo38. swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
< 1503283532 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moony
< 1503283533 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503283539 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moonythedwarf
< 1503283540 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonythedwarf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503283543 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moonheart08
< 1503283544 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonheart08? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503283550 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant even find my own entry
< 1503283557 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic.
< 1503283581 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to make a glob alias (if thats possible) that turns itself into a list of my usernames
< 1503283692 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:6414:3940:2681:9390 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503283963 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:6414:3940:2681:9390 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503284433 0 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503284553 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be yourself first, not the persons who are you. a strong identity by itself is its own personal self.
< 1503284677 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is not relevant to that?
< 1503284746 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503285167 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FIREWORK CHICKEN
< 1503285725 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom moon
< 1503285727 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
< 1503285780 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grwp -l moon
< 1503285789 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​☾_ \ ciol \ #esoteric \ moon \ pluto
< 1503285800 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ciol
< 1503285801 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciol is a language designed by moon_, it started as a scheme to annoy colleagues by making a programming language that has insults as commands.
< 1503287116 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503287222 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503290634 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1503291901 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503292131 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503292202 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503292522 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503297418 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503298876 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1503301141 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503301466 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1503302166 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503302727 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503303305 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503303964 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503304153 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503304864 0 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503305169 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503305915 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503306041 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503306323 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503307352 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503307405 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503308338 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo?
< 1503309309 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503309343 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503309604 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503311340 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52885&oldid=52769 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+203) 10
< 1503311475 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be lying if I didn't find that esolang name really susceptible to many kinds of badly made puns.
< 1503311569 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap, the user list is what, 90% spambots?!
< 1503311585 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503311613 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503311761 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503312547 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnotherTest.
< 1503312579 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/329/
< 1503315229 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503315924 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily.
< 1503316233 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52886&oldid=52870 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1) 10Removed a [[Typespam]] duplicate from "Non-alphabetic", added mindscrew.
< 1503316257 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503316294 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdochelloc.
< 1503316314 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily.
< 1503316368 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :concept: brainfuck on a stack
< 1503316423 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503316641 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: what's your instruction set?
< 1503316656 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brainfuck on a stack, or mindscrew?
< 1503316732 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your brainfuck on a stick.
< 1503316746 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, stick
< 1503316773 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, it was just a random thing (that has already been created multiple times by the looks of the stack-based category)
< 1503316811 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there may be some historical precedent...
< 1503316843 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a swap instruction that, when first called, swaps the top element of the stack with the tail of the stack, and the second time it's called, reverses that action? (then third time does it again, etc.)
< 1503316886 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, on the nth time it is called, if n is odd then it swaps the head of the stack with the tail of the stack, but if it's odd then it swaps the bottom element in the stack to the top.
< 1503316914 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's having a register.
< 1503316944 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.
< 1503316954 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't sound too bad of an idea, actually.
< 1503316981 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws a ninja smoke bomb. be back tonight.

< 1503316985 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: STRIP CHICKEN
< 1503317572 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats a chicken

< 1503319193 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503319775 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Antoxyde.
< 1503321448 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rdocco
< 1503321451 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdocco? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503321553 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le//rn rdocco//Rdocco Coffee is a well-known brand of coffee in Universe M-7, and does not contain a highly lethal substance engineered to cause bullet time and addiction.
< 1503321555 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'rdocco': Rdocco Coffee is a well-known brand of coffee in Universe M-7, and does not contain a highly lethal substance engineered to cause bullet time and addiction.
< 1503321955 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503322161 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zseri.
< 1503322164 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? feather
< 1503322165 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal.
< 1503322174 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Feather
< 1503322175 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal.
< 1503322180 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503322186 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? osmium
< 1503322187 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :osmium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503324012 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503324027 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503326167 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still thinking on how Brainfuck with floats could work.

< 1503326197 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe / should divide the value by 2, and * should multiply it? It'd be like dec/increasing the exponent.
< 1503326453 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503327217 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1503327380 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503327621 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503327652 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric bignums.
< 1503327876 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: using unevaluated expressions as anonymous functions
< 1503328787 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a896:1df1:8d97:e228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503329486 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: Bit operations that work on bignums.
< 1503329496 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would assume an infinite number of bits.
< 1503329523 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. value >> shift would be  math.floor(value / 2^shift)
< 1503329703 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1503329730 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503330989 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503331362 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@185.159.156.6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503331487 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi humans. hi TieSoul.
< 1503331505 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503331515 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a896:1df1:8d97:e228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying I'm not a human?
< 1503332060 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're a Soul.
< 1503332587 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a896:1df1:8d97:e228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1503333871 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503334090 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503334380 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503334668 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My extension to the MMIX simulation has been added into the webpage for MMIX extensions.
< 1503334727 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next on the todo list is creating an extension for the webpage for MMIX extensions.
< 1503335270 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503336572 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503337356 0 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503337500 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503337520 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503337658 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EEEEEECCCCLIIIPSSSEE TODAY
< 1503337763 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know
< 1503338559 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a896:1df1:8d97:e228 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503338683 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. I wont really get to see it ):
< 1503338692 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in person
< 1503339127 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503339254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503339940 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503339980 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503339987 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503340003 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome zseri 
< 1503340005 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02zseri: 06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13EFnet 04or 07DALnet.)
< 1503340369 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503341486 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503341754 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it looks like someone took a bite out of the sun
< 1503342608 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting
< 1503343039 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503343346 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/ncZlg6u
< 1503343367 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pools of light thru my grapevine are crescent shaped!
< 1503344099 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! I'm not the only one!
< 1503344622 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay!
< 1503344659 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yay
< 1503344660 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yay: not found
< 1503344669 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a `yay command right now.
< 1503345376 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503346367 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`nay
< 1503346368 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nay: not found
< 1503346389 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pay
< 1503346390 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pay: not found
< 1503346401 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`may
< 1503346402 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: may: not found
< 1503347891 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was reallly cool
< 1503347910 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503347920 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the birds flew to their sleeping tree and then two minutes later they fleww out again
< 1503347940 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sealions barked more at eachother
< 1503347961 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey get out of my sun" "no you get out of my sun"
< 1503348210 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03OliverB 5*  10New user account
< 1503349095 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503349327 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503349345 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503349361 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@76.14.249.98 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503349733 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503349783 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503350001 0 :zseri!5e86d216@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.210.22 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1503350508 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503350599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Your password must be at least 8 characters long, cannot be the same as your login name, must have lowercase and uppercase letters and at least two digits, and it can't contain the "@" character.”  Stop with these random different arbitrary restrictions on password formats already!
< 1503350631 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can't contain @"
< 1503350632 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1503350633 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1503350639 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1503350642 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote @
< 1503350643 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :80)   fungot!*@* added to ignore list.   AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 226)  lol @ closed character set standard   "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows." \ 446)  sllide: @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour \ 494)  monqy: help how do I us
< 1503350644 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that restriction make any semblance of sense
< 1503350670 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps passwords with @ break the system, and the system is just horribly implemented
< 1503350693 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's at least better if they tell that in advance than if I get a random error message with no explanation for why it doesn't like your password
< 1503350703 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1503350721 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a screenshot recently where "Your password is already taken."
< 1503350739 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably don't break the system because they check that the character isn't there and fail early. It's probably backslashes or apostrophes that break their system, if anything.
< 1503350784 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it also says the password cannot contain accented letters.
< 1503350791 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that part.
< 1503350797 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure love arbitrary password restrictions
< 1503350800 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it contain emoji?
< 1503350815 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: no idea
< 1503350835 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still upset over the fact that "£" is not in ASCII.
< 1503350844 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the only restrictions in there that make sense are "at least 8 characters long and not identical to username"
< 1503350883 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the euro sign in ASCII? don't think so right
< 1503350892 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1503350894 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not
< 1503350906 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the euro even exist when ASCII was made
< 1503350946 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here planning to go to ICFP this year?
< 1503350946 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't
< 1503350955 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ICFP?
< 1503350965 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1503351005 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, especially considering I just learned about ICFP, no.
< 1503351014 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not planning to
< 1503351028 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, fair enough :)
< 1503351032 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: you can look this up if you don't know ASCII by heart.  The printable ASCII characters are exactly  !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
< 1503351063 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I deduced it from the fact that the Euro didn't even exist when ASCII was created
< 1503351106 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason £ isn't ASCII is the A stands for American
< 1503351107 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even the Euro
< 1503351110 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I mean the 'A' of ASCII is probably-- yeah
< 1503351113 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's british pound
< 1503351117 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1503351131 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about the pound sign at all
< 1503351144 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bigger mystery is why £ is not on my keyboard layout
< 1503351150 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the euro thing was just an aside
< 1503351163 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: that's not really an argument. The characters ^`~\ also barely existed when ASCII was created, the first three of them exist as overprint characters you put into printer heads so you can add accents to characters by backspacing, the fourth one is basically just invented, although it's a simple enough shape that you can find prior uses if y
< 1503351163 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ou really want to
< 1503351205 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while @ existed, it was sort of barely used before ASCII, and gained popularity because of ascii, together with those four characters
< 1503351257 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ in its current use is kind of weird since it's an abbreviation of a two-letter word, and not very useful
< 1503351264 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I believe it was originally something else
< 1503351284 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once these were in ascii and a lot of ASCII printers were made, people started using them for all sorts of computing things
< 1503351285 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at a rate of" originally
< 1503351316 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, makes sense
< 1503351316 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, 10 bananas @ 50p = £5
< 1503351342 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: wait what? that was _after_ decimization?
< 1503351366 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be a stretch to argue that € could be in ASCII because "they made it up before the euro existed"
< 1503351369 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, no, I made that example up
< 1503351603 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:eda7:8619:872c:ab32 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503351746 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, completely offtopic here, but trump decided he'd look at the eclipse without protection. https://twitter.com/stefanmymind/status/899704177437421568
< 1503351789 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503352105 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting, apparently there's several ideas proposed as to how ‘@’ developed, and not at all clear-cut
< 1503352110 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign#Theories_of_origin
< 1503352145 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: maybe, but in any case it did exist before ASCII
< 1503352394 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how diverse different languages' vocabulary for @ is
< 1503352448 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the # sign is even worse. nobody knows how to call it, not even by a long name.
< 1503352458 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe
< 1503352470 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ‘hash sign’ is neutral/widespread enough
< 1503352471 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also some trouble with \ and | characters, but less.)
< 1503352491 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wafer!
< 1503352708 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pound sign, number sign, octothorpe, sharp...
< 1503352709 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :In swedish I'd use "galler" (lit. bars/grid/fence/…), but "brädgård" (lumber yard) is pretty common too
< 1503352784 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :for @ there's a lot of options… the most common one would be "snabel-a" (elephant's-trunk a), but "kanelbulle" (cinnamon bun) is pretty common too
< 1503352788 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just an english "at"
< 1503354162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are you saying swedes actually call a # a lumberyard
< 1503354193 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hebrew word for # is "sulamit"
< 1503354199 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means something like "small ladder"
< 1503354315 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Hungarian, the # character used to be called "andráskereszt" for some reason, even though that name makes no sense. These days it's usually called "kereszt", which is not much better, because × is also called "kereszt". There are informal names like fence or wafer which actually work better but are rarely used.
< 1503354331 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also it's often called "kettőskereszt" which is actually a good name.
< 1503354860 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least I always thought that was the etymology
< 1503354901 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Sulamit "Sulamit" is a Finnish and Swedish name with a different Hebrew etymology.
< 1503355274 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503355828 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503356031 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making tea. Who wants tea?
< 1503356075 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-159-070.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1503356407 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
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< 1503356946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1503359999 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503360048 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://icfpcontest2017.github.io/post/lightning-one/ -- status update about judging the ICFP contest 2017, somewhat disappointing because they're still very early in the process
< 1503360283 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CHARGED CHICKEN
< 1503360300 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has quit (Quit: TASTY CHICKEN)

< 1503360557 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503363250 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1503363426 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@185.159.156.6 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1503364108 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503364881 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503367089 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07(0)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52887 5* 03B jonas 5* (+6867) 10Created page with "'''(0)''' is a family of programming languages by [[David Madore]] defined in the 2017-08 blog entry [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2017-08-18.2460.html Un peu de prog..."
< 1503367210 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52888&oldid=52886 5* 03B jonas 5* (+10) 10Add (0), also fix some of the asciibetisation
< 1503367275 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07David Madore14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52889&oldid=52878 5* 03B jonas 5* (-73) 10
< 1503367320 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a super nomicy act: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06l21?search=leap#BK0
< 1503367336 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If a provision conferring power on a person or entity to make a regulation is amended, or repealed and replaced, so as to confer the power or substantially the same power on a different person or entity, the second person or entity has power to revoke, amend or replace the regulation made by the first one. "
< 1503367436 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was this enacted after an ex-president complaining to the new one "dude, stop undoing what I did"
< 1503367503 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1503367512 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503367555 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this time I didn't accidentally create an esolang that's substantially different from the one David described. That was an embarrassing although interesting error.
< 1503367638 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1832@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.50 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503367705 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
< 1503367735 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ICFP contest is, like, over.
< 1503369817 0 :moonythedwarf!?@? NICK :sidy
< 1503369905 0 :sidy!?@? NICK :moony
< 1503370002 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5*  10New user account
< 1503370263 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52890&oldid=52837 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+181) 10/* Introductions */
< 1503370430 0 :moony!?@? NICK :sidy
< 1503370449 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How come no olist today?
< 1503370449 0 :sidy!?@? NICK :moony
< 1503370827 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503370829 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the olist has been eclipsed hth
< 1503370943 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :another totally human new user, i see
< 1503371664 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503371721 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rdocco
< 1503371723 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rdocco Coffee is a well-known brand of coffee in Universe M-7, and does not contain a highly lethal substance engineered to cause bullet time and addiction.
< 1503371734 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget rdocco
< 1503371735 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what?
< 1503371772 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503372182 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell TieSoul  how does that restriction make any semblance of sense <-- random guess: they want to make sure people don't use their email as password.
< 1503372182 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503372533 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl
< 1503372533 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/
< 1503375902 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52891 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+4263) 10Created page with "==B1NARY== *No Hello world program available* B1nary is a language developed while UtilityHotbar was attempting to create a tally/prediction machine for use as an example intr..."
< 1503376005 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52892&oldid=52891 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+40) 10
< 1503376080 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52893&oldid=52892 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+48) 10
< 1503376081 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kerbal
< 1503376082 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerbal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503376095 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? space
< 1503376096 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans come from space. In particular, the part of space that has Earth in it.
< 1503376178 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52894&oldid=52893 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+86) 10
< 1503376277 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52895&oldid=52894 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+35) 10
< 1503376306 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52896&oldid=52895 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+9) 10/* Introduction */
< 1503376331 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52897&oldid=52896 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (-34) 10/* B1NARY */
< 1503376351 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52898&oldid=52897 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+1) 10/* Introduction */
< 1503376402 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52899&oldid=52898 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+2) 10/* Output */
< 1503376434 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52900&oldid=52888 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+13) 10/* B */
< 1503376505 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? program
< 1503376506 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program is an image created by means of prography.
< 1503376513 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52901&oldid=52899 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+2) 10/* B1NARY */
< 1503376552 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52902&oldid=52901 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+9) 10/* Introduction */
< 1503376586 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52903&oldid=52902 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+48) 10/* B1NARY */
< 1503376648 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52904&oldid=52903 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+16) 10/* Output */
< 1503376780 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52905&oldid=52904 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+254) 10/* Counter manipulation and the trash function */
< 1503376798 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52906&oldid=52905 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+3) 10/* Counter manipulation and the trash function */
< 1503376981 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52907&oldid=52906 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+10) 10/* == */
< 1503377029 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52908&oldid=52907 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+44) 10/* Basic commands: */
< 1503377044 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52909&oldid=52908 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+4) 10/* Conditions */
< 1503377107 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52910&oldid=52909 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+17) 10/* Syntax and Commands */
< 1503377714 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52911&oldid=52910 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+9631) 10
< 1503377761 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52912&oldid=52911 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (-32) 10/* Interpreters: */
< 1503377889 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52913&oldid=52912 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (-75) 10/* Interpreters: */
< 1503378104 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52914&oldid=52913 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+0) 10/* Interpreters: */
< 1503378343 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503378403 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1503378404 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnipheasant back principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it.
< 1503378408 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What was the third pun?
< 1503378419 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password
< 1503378420 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask boily
< 1503378420 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the word is unacceptably delayed
< 1503378427 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1503378435 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg password
< 1503378442 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11155:2017-08-16  learn The password of the word is unacceptably delayed \ 11081:2017-07-11  learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02  revert \ 10980:2017-06-02  revert \ 10979:2017-06-02  learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14  [[B1nary]]"
< 1503378562 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubng11-54f948-150.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503380065 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52916&oldid=52914 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+17) 10/* Counter manipulation and the trash function */
< 1503380250 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52917&oldid=52890 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+218) 10/* Introductions */
< 1503380344 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503380566 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503381354 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubng11-54f948-150.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503381722 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503381840 0 :Guest13707!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503381840 0 :Guest13707!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503383410 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503383926 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503384241 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503384270 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503384322 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503384618 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503385300 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1503389009 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503389290 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503392735 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503393098 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503393546 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503395644 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503395647 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503395802 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, I have created this program (https://github.com/DragonComputer/Swarm/blob/master/swarm.py) which is an interpreter for an esoteric language that I designed to be able to support random program generation.
< 1503395896 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language's state is currently draft and it consists of 360 (which can be change in the future) atomic instructions.
< 1503395966 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This file contains a self-replicating program (https://github.com/DragonComputer/Swarm/blob/master/replicate.code)
< 1503396130 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My purpose was designing a logic to provide evolutionary improvements over the generated programs. But I'm failing to get a successful result. There are two main problems here;
< 1503396190 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503396205 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 - Generated random programs are too random and useless that it seems like they will never be able to reach to a useful state.
< 1503396395 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 - I was planing the use threading to provide a competitive ecosystem for the programs that the goal is the program with the most system resource consumption is the program that be able to replicate itself most.
< 1503396480 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seems like operating system's max thread limit is an issue and the logic of my program for generating a competitive environment is failing.
< 1503396600 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could someone desire to collaborate in such an idea like combining automatic program generation and evolutionary algorithms? Because I desperately need help :/
< 1503396763 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/nrx1ufya
< 1503396764 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahahah!
< 1503396855 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503396858 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try to use it by `python swarm.py` command it will generate random programs on the same directory.
< 1503396892 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503397079 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/p96yiH4x
< 1503397084 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now nobody can out bfderivative me
< 1503397147 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503397481 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Fd2NsMyX
< 1503397692 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's a bug
< 1503398624 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/kANZH82k
< 1503398630 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now cellptr ops in it
< 1503399206 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mertyildiran: I tried to do what you're doing
< 1503399208 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem is
< 1503399220 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"local optima"
< 1503399238 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example let's say you want to write a program that can NOT a binary digit 1 -> 0, 0 -> 1
< 1503399248 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that produces 0 for all inputs will be "fairly" good
< 1503399253 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it's not even optimizing a little bit. Its state is far from machine learning.
< 1503399276 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every change to the const 0 program will temporarily make it worse
< 1503399284 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll never end up with a better program through random mutations alone
< 1503399291 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: did you run the swarm.py file?
< 1503399296 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1503399312 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving that creationists were correct in saying the eye is too complex to have evolved .
< 1503399314 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1503399317 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK try to run then you will see the result on your terminal.
< 1503399380 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it even do?
< 1503399405 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: creates random programs and run them.
< 1503399414 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the point in that?
< 1503399423 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you have a linux based system right?
< 1503399426 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503399434 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: OK then you can try.
< 1503399457 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the point is creating a general purpose program generation.
< 1503399486 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what?
< 1503399498 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: there is no practical purpose
< 1503399541 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503399567 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: look there are 2 main problems. I have a solution for the first one.
< 1503399663 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I will create a statistical data from top 10 best Python projects to find out the frequency distribution of the Python keywords and standard libraries.
< 1503399724 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: and generate instructions according to that distribution data. For example print 0.08, if 0.05, while 0.03 etc.
< 1503399750 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so that the program will not be too random.
< 1503399762 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: but for second problem I have no solution.
< 1503399776 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I'm simply unable to create a competitive environment.
< 1503399797 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: operating system and some low level implementations are blocking my way.
< 1503399837 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: also the overall logic is not certain in my mind.
< 1503399975 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I mean how we can define success and failure for a computer program? I tried to use "if there is an error in the program then it's a failure and don't replicate itself" but the error rate is too high that no program is able to survive.
< 1503400516 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503401248 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, fellow members of homo sapiens! I have not been abducted and replaced with an exact replica of myself whose job is to act, look, and even think like me while being under the control of evil aliens!......wait.
< 1503401291 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: as long as you act and think the same, nobody's gonna care.
< 1503401339 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, because that means the non-existent aliens will not be unable to carry out their plan of enslaving humanity! not mw not ha not ha!
< 1503401487 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: hi, my name is John Titor and I'm not a time traveller just an ordinary person. Nice meet with a non-alien person.
< 1503401505 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nice to meet...
< 1503401547 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503401617 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: a goto system that supports implicit longjmp without having to declare that you want to jump longly
< 1503401626 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sort of like continuations, I guess?
< 1503401665 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503401670 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily.
< 1503401697 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, the way I could see something like that working is a construct that declares a global variable set to the continuation of a block, and then executes that block
< 1503401715 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. { stuffBeforeLabel } label abc; stuffAfterLabel;
< 1503401726 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc would be defined as the continuation as stuffBeforeLabel.
< 1503401765 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would, coincidentally, transfer control flow to the beginning of stuffAfterLabel.
< 1503402072 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody has Capgras?
< 1503402336 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1503402400 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdochelloc, mrelloman.
< 1503402700 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.
< 1503402703 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heya
< 1503402707 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily detected.
< 1503402763 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :concept: functions which have access to not only their continuations, but... well... it's hard to explain, but it's the opposite of a continuation :P
< 1503402793 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have access to their continuation (continues execution) and their, well, history...?
< 1503402904 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i DID IT
< 1503402905 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1503402909 0 :mertyildiran!a5e38125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.227.129.37 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503402933 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Vxk0UKmP <- this oughta work to emulate a 4bit flip flop
< 1503402936 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1503402943 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4x 1 bit flip flops
< 1503402951 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are addressable
< 1503403043 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fuck
< 1503403043 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1503403051 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah forget it
< 1503403059 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just allows you to store cell[adr] = adr
< 1503403148 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503403248 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503403248 0 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503403257 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503403312 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-108-154.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503403457 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503403506 0 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503403566 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1503403611 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-108-154.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503403909 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503404561 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503404603 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone write an answer to my questions?
< 1503404935 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one?
< 1503404999 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: COMPACT CHICKEN
< 1503405090 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :success or failure of a program
< 1503405096 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an expected output?
< 1503405104 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you calculate the derivation from the output
< 1503405187 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503405198 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for random programs...
< 1503405199 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1503405204 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them might not even terminate
< 1503405204 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1503405213 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you never know whether they will terminate or run forever
< 1503405223 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that depends on what you consider success
< 1503405394 0 :mroman!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503405669 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, forking a lot of threads will fuck up the OS scheduling
< 1503405670 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and resources
< 1503405709 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also python internal threads are only useful for I/O heavy things afaik
< 1503405720 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because executing python byte code takes a global lock
< 1503405740 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unless you have threads waiting for I/O there's pretty much no benifit in having multiple threads afaik
< 1503405828 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: in nature lack of resources cause the elimination. Organism with better DNA survives. Computers have also limited resources. How do we implement the same logic with nature's?
< 1503405922 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm...
< 1503405926 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the rules of operating system is the main problem here.
< 1503405937 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to "create" "animals"
< 1503405944 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need to have some environment
< 1503405948 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you put programs in
< 1503405952 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which they can move around and gather food
< 1503405954 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise
< 1503405957 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point?
< 1503405987 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :organism with better DNA survives because they are fitter for a purpose
< 1503405993 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is YOUR purpose?
< 1503405998 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure CPython is not a good choice for parallelism but I was looking a completely error free language.
< 1503406013 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program that runs long? Then while 1: is the best program anyway
< 1503406031 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :---> very boring
< 1503406064 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be interested in CoreWars
< 1503406066 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BF Joust
< 1503406074 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs compete against each other
< 1503406094 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you can evolve programs by letting them fight against each other and take the winner
< 1503406103 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutate the winner into 10 new programs and then see if one of thes performs even better
< 1503406122 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need a heuristic function to determine which program is better than another
< 1503406136 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which in core wars is how many other programs it can beat)
< 1503406159 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you want to find the fastest brainfuck program to compute 100
< 1503406197 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your heuristic function will depend on the amount of cycles it used and how far it is of off producing the number 100
< 1503406218 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you create 10 random initial programs, mutate each into 10, run them each and then pick the top 10 of those and repeat
< 1503406230 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you use a more genetic approach where you "combine" programs into each other
< 1503406288 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. instead of creating 100 random version of the top 10 you "breed" these top 10 among each other and then run those
< 1503406333 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially something like while j < len(...): new_dna = dna_parent_a[j] if rand(0,1) == 0 else dna_parent_b[j]
< 1503406356 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the new dna is a mix of the two parents dna
< 1503406366 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very sufficient
< 1503406372 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clever
< 1503406385 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice i think they slice whole regions and also cut/add/extend dna
< 1503406397 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftxt_gen
< 1503406400 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1503406400 0 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
< 1503406403 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503406407 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1503406407 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1503406415 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1503406415 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1503406418 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have too many bots
< 1503406428 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /
< 1503406432 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr
< 1503406435 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /bin
< 1503406436 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chacl \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ getfacl \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ jo
< 1503406448 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls opt
< 1503406448 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access opt: No such file or directory
< 1503406453 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /opt /usr/bin
< 1503406458 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/opt: \  \ /usr/bin: \ [ \ 2to3 \ 2to3-2.6 \ 2to3-2.7 \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ aot-compile \ appletviewer \ apropos \ apt \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ ar \ ar
< 1503406470 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503406508 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`genbf moo
< 1503406509 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold: invalid number of columns: ‘moo’
< 1503406513 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`genbf 10
< 1503406514 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​,<+,.,>-+>
< 1503406523 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503406580 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`döts brainfuck
< 1503406581 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bräïnfück
< 1503406587 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1503406599 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: yeah that's also a good question, an endless loop is the most resource heavy thing. Isn't a window driven program's root level code an endless loop?
< 1503406638 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the architecture.
< 1503406648 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you poll events then yes
< 1503406670 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use some kind of ipc signaling
< 1503406672 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then not necessarily
< 1503406702 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an endless busy loop is
< 1503406719 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an endless while 1: sleep(100101001980901010191801) is not that resource heavy
< 1503406736 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: there is no clear goal in biological evolution so we should define a rule that governs all kind of programs.
< 1503406749 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a clear rule
< 1503406754 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reproducing and surviving
< 1503406760 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "clear"
< 1503406779 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to create programs that replicate themselves?
< 1503406814 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gotta catch the train
< 1503406815 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya
< 1503406828 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503406862 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: reproducing and surviving is not defining the DNA's goal. Environment decides who will survive.
< 1503406888 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: yes I'm talking about self-replicating programs. The script I show is also self replicating.
< 1503407109 0 :mroman_!a055e8b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503407381 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: what I mean an endless loop with a break in some point is the best kind of program possible so that's not a problem. We can implement max execution time for a program like 1 hour to prevent any true endless loop. The problem is what would be the logic of watchful eye for the evolution...
< 1503407479 0 :mertyildiran!58feef42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.254.239.66 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1503407879 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d6b:13e8:888c:1e3c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503409111 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c066:187b:d740:19f9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503410430 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503410860 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503411787 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ü
< 1503411789 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+00FC LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS]
< 1503412607 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503412622 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503412694 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`genbf 50
< 1503412696 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[,.-,-[>-[<.-,<-[>,-]-],.]<-.[.-.+.,]>]-.--<-<>+,-
< 1503412758 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid code
< 1503412811 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least it shouldn't do -,
< 1503412822 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :or end in -
< 1503412825 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :or <>
< 1503412857 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we have a better generator plz?
< 1503413231 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does genbf do?
< 1503413385 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cooks pizzas
< 1503413460 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c066:187b:d740:19f9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`genbf 100
< 1503413462 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​>.<>[+><[+>-.,<,<-<+++]--,<,>[,.,,<<+.[>++,+,.,..[].[]->]-+<>-,[<>><]+,][<+>,--<>+>-,,.-->,+,.<>+]+]
< 1503413483 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on,  [].[]
< 1503413546 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :-+<> and -<>+
< 1503413551 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not impressed

< 1503413634 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c066:187b:d740:19f9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best part is that the program will just output one null character
< 1503413660 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c066:187b:d740:19f9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then stop
< 1503414247 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503414779 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1503414796 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea for `genbf: make it detect and remove redundancies like that
< 1503414873 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. replace <> and +- with nothing.
< 1503414887 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1503414910 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replace -<>+ with nothing too, along with other redundancies like <-+>
< 1503414924 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503414957 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, better yet, simulate each piece of potentially redundant code to see how redundant it is
< 1503414974 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :, and . are definitely not redundant, but <+-+--+>+-+--+<> is
< 1503415001 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that might not work with while loops
< 1503415185 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503415475 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` type genbf
< 1503415477 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :genbf is /hackenv/bin/genbf
< 1503415480 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` pwd
< 1503415481 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv
< 1503415488 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file bin/genbf
< 1503415490 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/genbf: ASCII text
< 1503415497 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste bin/genbf
< 1503415498 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/genbf
< 1503415510 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew
< 1503415679 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -n '.... /foo/b;p;q'   ->   sed '.... /foo/d;q'
< 1503415690 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1503415704 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the odds that a random 50 char string is valid brainfuck?
< 1503415956 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503416240 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503417184 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503418039 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c066:187b:d740:19f9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1503418905 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Nil14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52918&oldid=37987 5* 03AJF 5* (+43) 10/* External resources */
< 1503419145 0 :pelegreno______!~cinch@107.170.175.57 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503419219 0 :pelegreno!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503419601 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503419983 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07(0)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52919&oldid=52887 5* 03B jonas 5* (+133) 10
< 1503420190 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503420269 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0_0)
< 1503420626 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503420886 0 :Sgeoweb!a689f451@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.137.244.81 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503420892 0 :Sgeoweb!a689f451@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.137.244.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/hikari_no_yume/status/900013177026609152
< 1503421962 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha
< 1503421974 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503422030 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moony!
< 1503422034 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there *are* interpreters
< 1503422034 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the universe doing today?
< 1503422062 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( still bathing in ~4K background radiation )
< 1503422087 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no, it's 2.7K
< 1503422150 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, depends on what part.
< 1503422167 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the Andromeda Galaxy okay?
< 1503422199 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some of the... Damn i cant even give a prononciation of the species name, are having a all-out war. 
< 1503422210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1503423016 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9910:c2c9:a658:aff6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503423128 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503423529 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I think to be valid, just the brackets have to match? Other than that, any unrecognized character is OK but ignored.
< 1503423561 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cam up with some numbers that work but I don't know why...
< 1503423607 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the people who make self-driving cars work in a less haphazerd way
< 1503423657 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't
< 1503423727 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boost jam can eat a bag of dicks
< 1503423753 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, i was asking about the odds of balanced brackets
< 1503423771 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't better than our build system, it just has different problems
< 1503424443 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I think you're talking about the K'thlh'an and the Þ'eßđ'tħŋen species?
< 1503424945 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, no... maybe.
< 1503425545 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503425777 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. how are the P'þan'eæß ðø's getting along?
< 1503425789 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ Insert Sudden Microwave Ping! ]
< 1503425789 0 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Insert (Sudden Microwave Ping ! ])
< 1503425810 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop! Looks like my universe has compiled! I'll see you soon.
< 1503425834 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs the universe.......and immediately runs into runtime errors. "...Shit."

< 1503426206 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1093
< 1503426206 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1093: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1503426436 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recompiles the universe, but then runs into compile-time errors.

< 1503426459 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to fix the errors, but then gets pre-compiletime-errors.

< 1503426480 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you recompile yourself into another channel or something
< 1503426626 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do u think of neural networks
< 1503426649 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Neurons are pretty neat. I don't really know much about them.
< 1503426656 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains are very complicated.
< 1503426674 0 :Sgeoweb!a689f451@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.137.244.81 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503427138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503427138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host
< 1503427138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503427313 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503427328 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hello
< 1503427335 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome kurolox 
< 1503427336 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08kurolox: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02EFnet 06or 13DALnet.)
< 1503427378 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but someone else pointed me here. I have a python bot that runs arbitrary code, and I was looking into a way to sandboxing it to make it relatively safe to use. I've been pointed to UMLBox, but I'm having some issues trying to set it up.
< 1503427466 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome kurolox
< 1503427467 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1503427476 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`version
< 1503427476 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: version: not found
< 1503427484 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname -a
< 1503427485 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
< 1503427539 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: unfortunately I have no first-hand experience with this. Gregor is the author of umlbox but usually busy with professing and family. fizzie may be your best bet.
< 1503427661 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand. I'll throw him a private chat and see if he can help me. Unfortunately there's not a lot of documentation out there about UMLBox setup. Thanks!
< 1503427684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor has a family?
< 1503427811 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH I don't know :P
< 1503427821 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what else would he spend all this time on?
< 1503427836 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people have families.
< 1503427844 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's required in order to be born.
< 1503427845 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not updating UMLBox, thats for certain
< 1503428337 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fizzie doesn't seem to be around so I'll leave my specific question here. I'm trying to use linux 3.16.46, so besides extracting that kernel in a folder with the same name inside umlbox files, and editing the makefile to match the version, do I need to do anything else before doing make and install?
< 1503428358 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like I'm doing something wrong because after that UMLBox complains about the lack of a UML kernel
< 1503428915 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurray! i made linux 4.12.8 work as UMLBox-kernel
< 1503429091 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503429349 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503429402 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503429459 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503430487 0 :moony_!~moony@2a05:dfc7:dfc7:c1::7da4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503430514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503430588 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503430600 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503430600 0 :moony_!?@? NICK :moony
< 1503430629 0 :moony!?@? NICK :Guest76625
< 1503430736 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503430796 0 :Guest76625!?@? NICK :moonythedwarf
< 1503430822 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@2a05:dfc7:dfc7:c1::7da4 QUIT :Changing host
< 1503430822 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503431826 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503432372 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503432626 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503433454 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503433624 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-189.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503433982 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the untitled.js framework. it's 0 bytes minified
< 1503434715 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1503435064 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my sj.deltitnu framework is -11 bytes minimized.
< 1503435078 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/minimized/minified
< 1503435146 0 :moonythedwarf!?@? NICK :moonmoon
< 1503435153 0 :moonmoon!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1503435175 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503435384 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that?
< 1503435951 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: It's been a while since I set it up. The "umlbox" script is just Python, so it's relatively easy to figure out which paths it checks for the kernel. I think the umlbox Makefile might not have worked out for me, I think I did it semi-manually (make ARCH=um in the kernel directory, and then copied the result to "umlbox-linux"), though on paper just "make && make install" in the umlbox directory 
< 1503435957 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :*should* do the trick.
< 1503436227 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9910:c2c9:a658:aff6 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503437104 0 :zseri!5e86c1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.193.216 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503437231 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Fizzle
< 1503437234 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the answer
< 1503437285 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately doing make and make install give me some errors due to umlbox-mudem
< 1503437318 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503437352 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503437365 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, hexchat crashed
< 1503437374 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, here's the output of make, with the errors I get
< 1503437376 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/992wk
< 1503437461 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I'll do it like you said
< 1503437476 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: In the file mudem/tcp4.c, add the line   #define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 201112L /* for getaddrinfo */   after the existing line   #define _POSIX_SOURCE /* for strtok_r */
< 1503437493 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least that's what "hg diff" says I've changed in my local copy.)
< 1503437565 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might fix the error Make barfs on. You'll probably also need to install cpio for the command on line 34 of the output to work.
< 1503437581 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, now it builds
< 1503437594 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of
< 1503437617 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did more than the last time, that's for sure, but now there's another error with the kernel it seems
< 1503437641 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/xfhap
< 1503437714 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's because of the version of the kernel I'm trying to use?
< 1503437744 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague notion I might have had to use an older version of GCC to build a 3.x kernel (again, hg diff says I've changed the Makefile to pass "CC=gcc-4.9" to the kernel build step. But I've no idea if the errors you're seeing could be that.
< 1503437761 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503437781 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, should I just use a 4.x kernel?
< 1503437812 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly I was using 3.16.46 because moony told me that nobody got 4.x to work, but it seems like he did it a few hours ago
< 1503437832 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran into some *other* problems with a modern kernel, but based on his report it's doable.
< 1503437838 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, thanks for the help. I haven't thanked you for it.
< 1503437847 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW the errors you're seeing are probably https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=778157
< 1503437856 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Found in version user-mode-linux/3.16-1um-0.1" "Fixed in version user-mode-linux/4.0-1um-0.1"
< 1503437867 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, maybe try 4.x.
< 1503437875 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's painless, maybe I could even update HackEgo one of these days.
< 1503437903 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering, which kind of issues have you found in 4.x?
< 1503437944 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try with 4.12.8, which is the one that moony is using
< 1503437949 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 4.12.8 worked painlessly for me
< 1503437973 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, make also worked painlessly for you
< 1503437998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoonyTheDwarf
< 1503437998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3778
< 1503437998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :botnet
< 1503437998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search
< 1503437998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOAD MORE MESSAGES
< 1503437999 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[6:13 PM] Kurolox: hm
< 1503438002 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[6:13 PM] MoonyTheDwarf: thats a issue for a kernel hacker(edited)
< 1503438005 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1503438006 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1503438008 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :discord
< 1503438010 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :y u
< 1503438012 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1503438021 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was amusing
< 1503438026 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to copy *one* line
< 1503438032 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead it cpies the entire chat history
< 1503438042 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric : [8:38 PM] BOTlinbut: @MoonyTheDwarf,
< 1503438042 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric : Linux umlbox 4.12.8-umlbox #1 Tue Aug 22 14:03:49 EDT 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
< 1503438074 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's building with 4.12.8
< 1503438078 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it went further than before
< 1503438087 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what problems I have with a 4.x kernel, but it was also a year ago. Maybe the current version just happened to be a bad one for UML.
< 1503438093 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/have/had/
< 1503438108 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a niche thing.
< 1503438123 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, UML is
< 1503438125 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I find anything I'll try to report it here
< 1503438154 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, more than 10 seconds passed and it haven't stopped yet so I'm calling it a sucess for now
< 1503438181 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bug moony regarding umlbox usage though, so don't worry about me asking stupid questions here
< 1503438187 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk
< 1503438223 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox, as its going to be a lang sandbox, you wont need a writeable dir. just do 'umlbox -B '
< 1503438265 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp will function as a temporary writable dir inside the sandbox
< 1503438271 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default
< 1503438279 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, but the script I want to sandbox creates files in a specific path
< 1503438292 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could change it so it writes them to the writable dir though
< 1503438325 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox, dont put the script inside the sandbox, instead, have it call the sandbox
< 1503438337 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-B will mount all base mounts, so python will be avaliable
< 1503438566 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzle
< 1503438577 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that thing I told you about not asking you stupid questions because I had moony?
< 1503438581 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't last even 5 minutes
< 1503438588 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503438598 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel panic i dont understand. :P
< 1503438599 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running anything with UMLBox gives me a kernel panic
< 1503438603 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/kneej
< 1503438628 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503438939 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503438940 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1093
< 1503438941 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1093: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1503438954 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: already listed hth
< 1503438989 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503439046 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? I thought I checked the logs. sorry.
< 1503439535 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503439731 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie how does UMLBox calls the kernel? It seems like there might be a problem with "ubda" or something like that with me
< 1503439755 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least according to http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/problems.html
< 1503439940 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503440048 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503440145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503440145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host
< 1503440145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503440243 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of to make a new kind of XLFD (for use with making up X version 12). You can still use uld XLFD on the same system, and fonts can have multiple names that refer to the same font.
< 1503440400 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new format is ":foundry:name:style:spacing:width:height:charset:subsets"
< 1503440401 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like NeWS?
< 1503440409 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think X is better
< 1503440454 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1503440551 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually we can omit the "spacing" field, I think)
< 1503440641 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The foundry is optional and can be blank. The style is two characters, the first 0 to 3 indicating bold (1 for normal, 2 for bold, 3 for extra-bold), second is "r" or "i" or "o" for slanting, and either or both of them can be "-" instead if unspecified. The width and height are the character cell width/height, and can be blank if they are variable. The charset is a character set name, such as "ascii", "iso8859-1", "iso10646", etc.
< 1503440705 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The subsets is a list of subsets of the character set that is implemented, which must be in alphabetical order; each one consists of a dot followed by the name followed by another dot (so there are two dots between each pair), and is a single dot by itself if this field is unused.
< 1503440719 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what does X even have to do with this? aren't we all using user-space fonts rendered as graphics in user space to memory buffers which may or may not be direct mappings of video card memory and the rendering may involve graphics card help?
< 1503440775 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fonts are resolved by user-space libraries like the combination of pango, fontconfig, freetype, or other user-space libraries like those
< 1503440792 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need X, and is actually independent of it, although it can still be used with the font loading mechanism of X.
< 1503440822 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those libraries can even transparently use the same bdf fonts that X used to use
< 1503440861 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pcf fonts. whichever is the compiled version.
< 1503440920 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, another feature which actually would be part of my version of X 12, that when loading a font you can optionally specify two flags: EnableLigatures, which permits the server to ignore the requirement that a string of multiple characters is the same as all of those character put together, and EnableAntialiasing, which permits the server to ignore the requirement that the character only consists of on/off pixels in the bounding box.
< 1503440978 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The EnableLigatures flag is also needed in order to render astral Unicode characters, since they don't fit in 16-bits.)
< 1503441335 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the protocol request to set the font path is now gone (although some implementations may support a ExtensionControl request to control them), and there is no requirement as to how exactly the server loads and implements the fonts; it is not required to implement EnableLigatures and EnableAntialiasing (and if it doesn't, those flags are just ignored). There is no requirement of storing font names either, so an implementation could make up f
< 1503441749 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is still recommended that at least .pcf is supported, although it is not strictly a requirement anymore.)
< 1503441757 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503441764 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1503442941 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503443153 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503444109 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503444982 0 :wob_jonas!b03f180f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.15 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503445496 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: I don't think there's really a one-line answer to that. But it does use an "ubda=..." argument to pass in a "configuration" file (what setup to do and what commands to run) as a virtual block device. The init binary reads the config from there and does what it's told to do.
< 1503445613 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the people other than myself try to think of how to make a (large) computer program that can work even if the cards that the program is punched on are shuffled, for a loading mechanism such as the MIX "Go button" loading mechanism?
< 1503445755 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d6b:13e8:888c:1e3c QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1503445771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503445817 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503446388 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did some tests. 4.12.8 works without issues for me. I'll be waiting for hackego to get upgraded.
< 1503446429 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /
< 1503446430 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr
< 1503446568 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /home
< 1503446569 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot
< 1503446586 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /opt
< 1503446587 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1503447163 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen test
< 1503447171 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :54 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+. [237]
< 1503447245 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman  !bftxt_gen <-- EgoBot is dead, use `! bf_txtgen for HackEgo's version
< 1503447245 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503447259 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf  +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+.
< 1503447259 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1503447359 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie don't worry
< 1503447376 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've spent the last hour and a half disassembling my old laptop so I can make a server with it
< 1503447380 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try in a fresh install there
< 1503447383 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm lucky
< 1503447422 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Don't hold your breath.
< 1503449210 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503449234 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503449337 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503451007 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503451139 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503451566 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh, no, it's 2.7K <-- . o O ( int-e reveals his age )
< 1503451671 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503451730 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, some of the... Damn i cant even give a prononciation of the species name, are having a all-out war. <-- obviously, since they don't speak with sound hth
< 1503451748 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, duh, right.
< 1503451765 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :linbut shall prevail.  moony: Linux umlbox 4.12.8-umlbox #1 Tue Aug 22 14:03:49 EDT 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
< 1503451789 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use this handy ultraviolet lamp and paper figures
< 1503451833 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this going to be the but of many jokes?
< 1503451989 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<\oren\> also boost jam can eat a bag of dicks <-- that's a pretty disturbing skill to have.
< 1503452339 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever had cow cod soup? It's an easy skill to have
< 1503452434 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ... hope not.
< 1503452503 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( also cows don't have dicks hth )
< 1503452528 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cow is a hyponym of cow
< 1503452609 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I you prefer to drink a jar of dicks you can have deer dick wine
< 1503452634 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(banned from the 2009 olympics)
< 1503452642 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008
< 1503452671 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother swapped some keys on  my keyboard which causes trouble when I look at it
< 1503453271 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503453448 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503453549 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ech`olist
< 1503454079 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503454101 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should put the keys back into the proper places
< 1503456200 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a brilliant idea
< 1503456210 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it requires effort and gumption
< 1503456386 0 :Warrigal_!?@? NICK :tswett
< 1503456613 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( and i'm all out of gumption )
< 1503456637 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't know how one would kick ass and have gumption anyway
< 1503457286 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503459027 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had idea make up the mahjong with pokemon; before play game you will decide how many generations. There is also wild card, which is by elements, and can only substitute for any card of that element, but no more than one per set (including pair), and cannot make ambiguous chii calling with wild cards. Two kind of sequences are possible, which is numeric sequences and evolution sequences, and some sequences can be both.
< 1503459251 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503459808 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503459948 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If only one generation, then all evolution sequences are also numeric sequences (since a sequence is always three cards), but with more than one generation you can have evolution sequences that aren't numeric sequences.) Also your pair (and only pair) can substitute Ditto for any other card, but only if neither are wild cards.
< 1503459951 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1503460298 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503460321 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I need an ais.
< 1503460329 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell
< 1503460329 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who should I tell?
< 1503460372 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts on ais mask

< 1503460405 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Do you happen to know about the paradoxical construction where you have a program with arrays, and you simulate it without arrays by recursive calls to the main program whenever you want to read an array element? Is that construction possible and can you point to some writeup about it?
< 1503460405 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503460431 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never heard of such a thing.
< 1503460501 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can simulate a read-only array with a function, but that's not recursion.
< 1503460658 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems paradoxical because you're simulating a RAM machine by a stack machine, which is supposed to be impossible. You're not just stacking a whole array into a single bignum, you only have individual array elements on the stack or registers.
< 1503460681 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you can give the main program an extra parameter that says "keep track of this element of this array, and return what's in it at this point in time"
< 1503460691 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some extra parameters
< 1503460718 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't actually contradict the theory because you need a timer variable to know when to break out of each recursive simulation, that timer variable has to have at least as many values as many times the simulated program reads array elements, and you have such time variables on the stack.
< 1503460739 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runtime may blow up exponentially, and the stack may blow up to as big as the simulated runtime.
< 1503460825 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, in each level of the simulation, you keep track of the array index, the time when you have to stop, the arguments of the main function, and the current time. Only the last one changes within a simulation level, but you can have lots of nested simulations.
< 1503460860 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the current time growing exponentially, so you need a bignum for it.
< 1503460864 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time means how many times you have read array elements during the simulated program (although it can be more refined than that).
< 1503460881 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, you only keep track of the time of the original program, it only blows up as much as the runtime of that one.
< 1503460909 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok if you assume the runtime of that cannot be too high...
< 1503460911 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runtime of the simulation can blow up exponentially, but a time variable only stores the time in the runtime of the original program.
< 1503460986 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can have at most as many levels of simulation as the original runtime, the new stack can have as many frames as the old stack times the number of nested simulation levels, and there's a constant number of timer variables in each level of the new stack.
< 1503461031 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each new stack frame stores only a constant number of array elements (the one corresponding to the index you're interested about), but together the stack may hold a whole array.
< 1503461085 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know either why the whole construction fails, or a reference to existing documentation of this construction, and I hope ais523 can provide it.
< 1503461096 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1503461163 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but yes, in the original program you might only need integers as large as the size of arrays (you can imagine this as 16-bit or 32-bit integers if you wish), while the timers may need larger integers (if runtime is more than about 2**16 or 2**32).
< 1503461188 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runtime can be exponential in the amount of memory the program uses of course.
< 1503461204 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did any of this make sense?
< 1503461382 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if the runtime is really about as big as the number of possible memory states, then the timer has to be as big as the number of possible memory states too. But you rarely see such a long runtime in practice.
< 1503461454 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So practical programs with short runtimes can be simulated with a short enough time variable, but then the simulation isn't practical because it can still take time exponential in the original runtime, and it will do so if the original uses random access in an essential way.
< 1503461504 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1503461554 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Guess why the whole thing came up now.)
< 1503461812 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503461898 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503463605 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1503464913 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1503466033 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503466322 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now in vim I tried ":spl /dev/null" and surely enough it does work just as well as I expected it to do.
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< 1503467750 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
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< 1503472030 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
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< 1503472689 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1503473757 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1503476001 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBLEQ 
< 1503476007 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gerigeri.uw.hu/DawnOS/index.html
< 1503476020 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. Is this literally an OS for a CPU that only supports the SUBLEQ instruction?
< 1503476150 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503477757 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503477943 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1503477973 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the exact same kernel panic in this laptop in a fresh install too
< 1503478021 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of hardware failure?
< 1503478038 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, it happens in two completely different systems
< 1503478060 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about UMLBox by the way
< 1503478306 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503478436 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why is it shipped as a bunch of binaries
< 1503478474 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like static linking?
< 1503479610 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie, are you around here?
< 1503480275 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503482398 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I imagine Google has a single sparse 2^47 byte image, directly mapped to all the servers that contains all the software :-P
< 1503482413 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which would then be statically linked)
< 1503482418 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really)
< 1503482538 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: h8r
< 1503482544 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monorepos are the best
< 1503482827 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: I wasn't, then.
< 1503482844 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^47
< 1503482846 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 140737488355328
< 1503482859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^47/1e6
< 1503482861 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.40737488355328e8
< 1503482867 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1503482941 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an entirely random number; 2^48 bytes tends to be the effective virtual memory space these days (which is limited by the page table hierarchy), though I've seen it go up to 2^52 somewhere.
< 1503482964 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I left some space for more volatile data
< 1503482997 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: If you're getting an "can't execute init" kernel panic, check that the umlbox-linux and init binaries have the same arch (e.g. via "file umlbox-linux", "file init").
< 1503483026 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting a "can't mount /" panic though
< 1503483042 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's probably different then.
< 1503483057 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(98,0)
< 1503483070 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the exact same issue in two different computers, so I think that is not a hardware issue
< 1503483108 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown-block sounds like a device driver (for uml's virtual block device?) is missing
< 1503483127 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the full log
< 1503483149 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/sogvd
< 1503483164 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $(cat /proc/devices)
< 1503483165 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Character devices: 1 mem 2 pty 3 ttyp 4 tty 4 ttyS 5 /dev/tty 5 /dev/console 5 /dev/ptmx 10 misc 128 ptm 136 pts Block devices: 1 ramdisk 259 blkext 7 loop 98 ubd
< 1503483170 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Did the umlbox-initrd.gz get built correctly? If you do "zcat umlbox-initrd.gz | cpio -t", does it print out "init"? 
< 1503483171 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ubd one
< 1503483178 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's not supposed to be using ubd for root.
< 1503483183 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, everything got built correctly
< 1503483183 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503483192 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: There's an initrd image, and the init never remounts root to anything else.
< 1503483205 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Well, do that cpio check anyway.
< 1503483236 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio: premature end of archive
< 1503483247 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not right then.
< 1503483258 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm umlbox-initrd.gz && make umlbox-initrd.gz ?
< 1503483303 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1503483311 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now running zcat says
< 1503483315 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :init
< 1503483317 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1495 blocks
< 1503483322 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds better.
< 1503483328 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I build again?
< 1503483334 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't need to.
< 1503483341 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try running again and seeing what happens.
< 1503483356 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503483382 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might need to make install, if you're using it "installed".
< 1503483397 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I've ran the executable at the build dir to test
< 1503483404 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good news is that there's no kernel panic anymore
< 1503483417 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bad news is that I lied. There's still a kernel panic, now there's a different one though
< 1503483424 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it complain about the init? 
< 1503483428 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503483431 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:09  kurolox: If you're getting an "can't execute init" kernel panic, check that the umlbox-linux and init binaries have the same arch (e.g. via "file umlbox-linux", "file init").
< 1503483435 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! exitcode=0x00000100
< 1503483460 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, will do
< 1503483471 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's slightly different than what I'd expect from the "mismatched architectures" problem.
< 1503483471 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, this may not be the most helpful behavior. "rootfs image is not initramfs (junk in compressed archive); looks like an initrd"
< 1503483500 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you've progressed beyond this anyway)
< 1503483507 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the log again, I feel like it's not an init problem
< 1503483521 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/bk3uu
< 1503483533 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it clearly did manage to run init.
< 1503483545 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what prints the "UMLBox starting" line.)
< 1503483587 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think the kernel panic is just because that's how umlbox stops when it encounters problems.
< 1503483603 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "mount(source, rtarget, type, 0, data): Device or resource busy" thing might be more relevant, but I'm not sure what's up with that.
< 1503483628 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it looks like a missing root fs? I mean, "/bin/sh could not be executed"
< 1503483664 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's not supposed to have that on the root fs, actually. :) 
< 1503483702 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"init" is the only file that's supposed to be on /, the rest it gets by read-only-mounting the host's /bin et al. using UML's hostfs.
< 1503483747 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more exactly, it mounts the directories out of ["/usr", "/bin", "/sbin", "/lib", "/lib32", "/lib64", "/etc/alternatives", "/dev"] that exist on the host.
< 1503483770 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said, it should still have a /bin/sh that way.
< 1503483786 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it mounting proc,sys,tmp twice?
< 1503483797 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1503483799 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's my fault
< 1503483803 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't use the -B flag
< 1503483832 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it doesn't panic, but it seems like there are still problems
< 1503483851 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it just takes a while to load
< 1503483865 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's mounting them twice because the mount lines are there several times in the configuration file, but I don't know why *that* is.
< 1503483887 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Read configuration" section dumps out what it's got, and it looks like it's repeated three times, which doesn't sound normal.
< 1503483934 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/rwuw9
< 1503483938 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox is stuck like this
< 1503483943 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that it should give me a bash prompt
< 1503483985 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might not be able to get interactive use out of the stdin/stdout thing.
< 1503483992 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried typing in commands anyway? 
< 1503484023 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also try something like  umlbox -v -B /bin/echo foo  to check if a non-interactive command works out right.
< 1503484024 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I can't see anything
< 1503484052 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I can't stop the process with ctrl+c, I have to kill it
< 1503484200 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503484221 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: for me, "umlbox -B echo foo" outputs just "foo" as expected, but "umlbox -v -B echo foo" (verbose mode) manages to leave terminal echo disabled.
< 1503484282 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I do get a working interactive bash prompt out of "umlbox -B bash". Wasn't expecting that.
< 1503484333 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503484348 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry
< 1503484349 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to reboot
< 1503484360 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Heh, this is a new one for me: "cat: -: Resource temporarily unavailable"
< 1503484380 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about the echo foo
< 1503484399 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work, but I think that is because of how I had to kill the last process
< 1503484419 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/hkd5s
< 1503484505 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: There's something odd going on with the configuration file reading with your kernel, I don't know what.
< 1503484576 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you compare the "Configuration" dump from line 3 onwards with the "Read configuration" one from line 90 on, the latter seems to oddly repeat the beginning half of the config.
< 1503484645 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The length of the "Read configuration" dump for you is exactly 512 bytes, as well. I wonder if, in later kernels, the ubd implementation has changed to e.g. pad files up to a block boundary.
< 1503484657 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, about the lenght of the read
< 1503484659 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed something
< 1503484676 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried running the commaand in my other computer, and it seems like it just gets cut
< 1503484703 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/pkqet
< 1503484709 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ moun
< 1503484709 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unrecognized command moun
< 1503484728 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was mount before
< 1503484752 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should end at the "run user ..." line, like it does in the outside-UML configuration dump.
< 1503484785 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :On your other box it probably truncates at "moun" instead of "mount" because the gid is 100 in one, 1000 in the other, and 1000 takes up one character more of space.
< 1503484837 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so any idea? Should i try an older kernel?
< 1503484873 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's what I think it is, you might be able to fix it by padding the config file with 0s up to a block boundary.
< 1503484923 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe try changing the line in "umlbox" that says  conff.write(confs)  to something like  conff.write(confs + "\0" * (512 - len(confs) % 512))
< 1503485019 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I'm a little puzzled moony didn't encounter this issue, if it's some change in udb semantics in later kernels.)
< 1503485087 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1503485089 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did something
< 1503485151 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/op8u3
< 1503485160 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see the echo anywhere, but there are no errors
< 1503485210 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you check what happens if you try without the "-v" flag? The verbose mode terminal handling is kind of... odd.
< 1503485226 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course you don't get any logs so chances are it'll just print nothing.)
< 1503485230 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no output
< 1503485253 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I should mention that umlbox always mess up the console formatting
< 1503485271 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :after running umlbox through ssh for example, the cursor is static and nothing I write will be visible
< 1503485285 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that for me as well, though only with -v.
< 1503485287 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my desktop everything I type seems to be tabbed over and over
< 1503485294 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running "reset" seems to fix it.
< 1503485305 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, good to know
< 1503485312 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/NJRC is what I get out.
< 1503485337 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty similar except I have an extra "ttyraw" in the generated config.
< 1503485366 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so this is weird
< 1503485374 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to run bash again
< 1503485396 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the cursor is static and everything is invisible, but it seems to recognize what I'm doing
< 1503485417 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can't see any "echo" or anything, but typing "exit" closes umlbox properly
< 1503485432 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it's working but I can't see it, I don't know
< 1503485435 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm guessing this is all something to do with the consoles.
< 1503485450 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's because I'm doing it through ssh
< 1503485454 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check in my desktop
< 1503485457 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of curiosity, what do you get if you try "umlbox -B echo foo | cat" (so that the output's not a tty)? 
< 1503485494 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1503485589 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's no difference in my desktop. Same stuff happens.
< 1503485715 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm somewhat stumped. I do think it's highly likely it's got something to do with either the UML console configuration, or umlbox-mudem.
< 1503485722 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll have to head to work now.
< 1503485745 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing. Thanks for all the help fizzie, I hope that I can get this solved eventually.
< 1503486184 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd talk, but I'm honestly kind of scared to.
< 1503486393 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503486499 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/ :-P
< 1503487237 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503487369 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric ::c
< 1503488209 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503488518 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503488681 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503491301 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PULP CHICKEN
< 1503492450 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2994:c3de:2134:fd24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503492621 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moin
< 1503493653 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you see that MS agrees that git is better than hg
< 1503493933 0 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1503495411 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503496860 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:79c5:4d28:5145:9a42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503497994 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503499007 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2994:c3de:2134:fd24 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503499042 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503499929 0 :zseri!5e86c2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.194.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503500780 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503501639 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503501888 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503502963 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503506420 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503507579 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:79c5:4d28:5145:9a42 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503507589 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I wonder what happened to that Nomic game we planned.
< 1503507626 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( You couldn't agree on the rules? )
< 1503507641 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should we try again?
< 1503507696 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( What we really need is a website specifically for holding rules for Nomic games. )
< 1503507945 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: would you be interested in attempting to restart it?
< 1503508137 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503508173 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503508460 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503509704 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503510002 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503510320 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503510370 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about building one with lua as a rule-language and a basic rpg thingie underlying
< 1503510804 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a channel named #esoteric-nomic for possible future nomic games.
< 1503510907 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least the one I'm planning, anyway.
< 1503511123 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503511486 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503511514 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi imode. I'm starting a new game of nomic in #esoteric-nomic if you're interested.
< 1503511567 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Agrees with whom?
< 1503511569 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see.
< 1503511621 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/899691358889234432
< 1503511675 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, earlier, https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/bharry/2017/05/24/the-largest-git-repo-on-the-planet/ (hmm, should I read that)
< 1503511957 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(indeed I should. just as the other companies aren't using vanilla hg, this isn't vanilla git either. not a surprise, really.)
< 1503512228 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rdococ.
< 1503512236 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish I could but I've got work. :P
< 1503512853 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503513408 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503513725 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a5d4:789e:37a4:3b27 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503515944 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503517269 0 :rdococ!?@? NICK :beacoc
< 1503517285 0 :beacoc!?@? NICK :beakoc
< 1503517566 0 :ATMunn!?@? NICK :atbeak
< 1503517673 0 :atbeak!?@? NICK :beakymunn
< 1503517708 0 :beakoc!?@? NICK :baeky
< 1503517864 0 :beakymunn!?@? NICK :ATMunn
< 1503517951 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03BlackCap 5*  10New user account
< 1503518222 0 :baeky!?@? NICK :rdococ
< 1503518854 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52920&oldid=52917 5* 03BlackCap 5* (+246) 10
< 1503518965 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503519000 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1503519050 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503519550 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503519561 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello
< 1503519578 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find you. I want to ask something.
< 1503519625 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: huh, I was wondering why I hadn't seen you online for a while
< 1503519626 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503519672 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was up a bit irregularly. I'll be up more from September
< 1503519708 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re your lambdabot question, you can do a lot of functional tricks to simulate arrays, but recursively calling main isn't enough by itself because you only get one stack
< 1503519730 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why it's paradoxical
< 1503519735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503519736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you're limited to PDA levels of power
< 1503519736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503519746 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503519749 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one stack isn't enough if the stack symbols are from a fixed size alphabet
< 1503519813 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have no temporaries, it IIRC isn't enough even if you have an infinitely large alphabet, unless the set of operations you allow on top-of-stack is Turing-complete even on just a single number
< 1503519831 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the easiest way around is to encode a whole array into a bignum. this construction doesn't do that, it's more sneaky, but it still needs numbers as large as the runtime of the original (simulated) program, which in turn can be exponentially large in the memory size of the original program in worst case
< 1503519847 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I think a bignum stack, increment, decrement, push, pop, conditional goto is not Turing-complete
< 1503519882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a functional language, you can implement an array as a function from the index to the element
< 1503519890 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assign to the array by wrapping it with more functions
< 1503519897 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different construction, but a fairly fun one
< 1503519915 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written down the construction more technically in http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2017-08.html%23d.2017-08-18.2460#comment-23792 , where it applies to the uncomputable esolang (1) and (3), but you can take just the Turing case
< 1503519942 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't just use increment and decrement, but also equal-compare of bignums
< 1503519952 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copying of bignums
< 1503519958 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the natural number cases of (0) and (1) are just bloop and floop respectively, aren't they?
< 1503519971 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0) is definitely bloop
< 1503519975 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what are you comparing or copying them too?
< 1503519976 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, how does floop work again?
< 1503519988 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like bloop except it has infinite loops with break
< 1503519991 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're copying a bignum from one stack entry (near the top) to another stack entry (near the top)
< 1503519993 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;) { … break … }
< 1503520008 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you're equal-comparing two bignums in two stack entries near the top
< 1503520031 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: ah right, which is clearly TC as you can use the top two stack entries as a minsky machine
< 1503520033 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still need increment and constants
< 1503520044 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point, how you simulate things is just a matter of programming
< 1503520064 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but "just a matter of programming" is somewhat vague
< 1503520083 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503520093 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is more a question about programming techniques than about what's possible?
< 1503520118 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have these operations, then you can also implement arithmetic (in exponential time) and store a whole array in a bignum, which is how the minsky construction works (if you have at least three bignums)
< 1503520120 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it'd be interesting to try to constrain a language in such a way that you have to program it like that
< 1503520145 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the minsky construction works with two bignums by using one of them to store a simulated tuple of three bignums
< 1503520149 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really slow, but oh well :-)
< 1503520161 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm still asking about this specific construction, which is a bit strange, because you really don't need integers larger than the runtime of the original program in the particular case simulated
< 1503520165 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to put my half-finished toy neural net thing on Github: https://github.com/Taneb/net/blob/master/Main.hs
< 1503520198 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you might need a write up of exactly how the construction works, then, because I haven't seen it
< 1503520217 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, how many languages do we have which are TC only because they can use the call stack as one stack and an explicit data stack as another?
< 1503520227 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a construction which feels like it should be more common than it actually is
< 1503520230 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in this case David describes in the original blog article that the straightforward construction where you encode an array in a bignum does work in a finite case,
< 1503520251 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also that it doesn't work in the infinite case, and how simulating arrays in the infinite case is VERY difficult
< 1503520259 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in general)
< 1503520324 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TC only because they can use the call stack as one stack and an explicit data stack as another" => I don't recall any such language
< 1503520360 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, Underload is one
< 1503520374 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no, Underload has complex stack elements
< 1503520377 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it rarely comes up, because you'd either need an actual infinite stack for TC-ness, or if you want a practical language, then just two stacks are very impractical for general purpose programming
< 1503520380 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you have more than two stacks
< 1503520388 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh! I misunderstood the construction used
< 1503520393 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of it as a language in which the stacks are made out of other stacks
< 1503520397 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1503520413 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that language I have imagined but haven't yet documented might be like this,
< 1503520424 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least two stacks is the only way I can prove TC-ness,
< 1503520484 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though there's a much better practical construction for random access of vast but possibly not infinite memory, where the accessible memory size grows at least double exponential in the code size, probably even faster than that
< 1503520498 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't really need the two stacks construction for TCness
< 1503520519 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you have to use the stacks at least a little for temporary values)
< 1503520539 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to eventually document that language
< 1503520633 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a data stack, a control stack, and a heap, you may get a G machine.
< 1503520661 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1503520671 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503520692 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503520715 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of my attempt to write a language that's theoretically Turing-incomplete but can access so much storage that that basically never comes up except in programs that bruteforce for counterexamples
< 1503520722 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I've obviously never looked at the original G machine paper. It was intended to be an actual hardware design by the looks of it.
< 1503520766 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, 1985.
< 1503520941 0 :augur!~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503521073 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503521241 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503521245 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you have an ordinary computer with a CPU with a 48-bit physical address space, and have a disk interface that gets commands from a memory-mapped variable sized control block, and the sector address and sector size and count of sectors are in that command block, does that work for this?
< 1503521261 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can access something like 2**2**48 bytes of memory, give or take a few
< 1503521273 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if that's all you have, it's clearly sub-TC
< 1503521285 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a finite (even if very large) amount of memory
< 1503521300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language was going to make heavy use of the Ackermann function, so it could access way more memory than that
< 1503521312 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but still a finite amount for any given program)
< 1503521396 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well you can stack the construction. Use half of each address space for data, and the other half for some MMIO interface to the next level in the hierarchy
< 1503521404 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't sub-TC what you asked for? "theoretically Turing-incomplete"
< 1503521422 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: and then you get something that may be TC.
< 1503521436 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fiendishly difficult to implement ;-)
< 1503521453 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes
< 1503521459 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wanted to be closer to TC than that
< 1503521460 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you want much more than 2**2**48 bytes?
< 1503521462 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503521475 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the language scaled with the size of the problem
< 1503521498 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of the hope was to be able to express any number that humans are capable of describing without resorting to diagonalization tricks, and know for a fact exists
< 1503521546 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of number which can't be calculated by most Turing-incomplete languages is "the first counterexample to the Riemann hypothesis" (you can't set an appropriate memory limit in advance because you don't know how large it is) but we don't know for certain it exists
< 1503521588 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ResPlicate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52921&oldid=45669 5* 03BlackCap 5* (+713) 10
< 1503521630 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that case my language *might* actually work, if you restrict the size of one of the two stacks. I think an ackermann construction for accessing memory in many hierarchies might be possible to implement, but I'm not sure yet, I'm only sure of at least double exponential. But I also can't prove that it can't still random-access infinite me
< 1503521631 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mory with a fixed code.
< 1503521665 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean double exponential or ackermann in the code size.)
< 1503521673 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Calculus of Construction should get you quite far.
< 1503521680 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the largest numbers we can describe are basically modifications of the "the smallest number not nameable in…" trick, only programmatically rigorous
< 1503521725 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"express any number that humans are capable of describing without resorting to diagonalization tricks" => wait, which humans? if you take the right humans, that's a very very very very very large number, much larger than I can imagine
< 1503521789 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ResPlicate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52922&oldid=52921 5* 03BlackCap 5* (+107) 10
< 1503521798 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there are some pretty insane humans out there :-)
< 1503521808 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was thinking more of the set of humans that actually exist and name numbers
< 1503521823 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the set of all hypothetical humans who might want to name large numbers
< 1503521829 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this reminds me of http://djm.cc/bignum-results.txt
< 1503521943 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean if you take numbers whose descriptions only like ten mathematicians in the world understand, then you get numbers much larger than the numbers I can describe, even with a no-diagonization restriction
< 1503521991 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers I can actually imagine using go to only tetration size like 2***(2**512) or something, but I can describe bigger ones
< 1503522033 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you take numbers that a million humans can describe, those aren't so big that I can't imagine them
< 1503522043 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's a similar thread on PPCG but the rules are really screwed up
< 1503522047 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these about humans who live today
< 1503522051 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are debates on whether the rules should be fixed or not
< 1503522079 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fixed as in you freeze those rules and start a separate thread with better rules?
< 1503522202 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are debates on how to fix it, too
< 1503522214 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you might be interested about the non-computable (0) language family that David described, he mentions a lot of interesting details
< 1503522217 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, start a new thread, change the rules of the existing thread, or something else?
< 1503522241 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( diagonalize over the thread )
< 1503522375 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that other contest has a rule for exactly that, it says a new guess counts as better than an older guess only if the number it names is significantly bigger than that older guess. so just adding one to a previous guess isn't enough, and "significantly bigger" is very loose.
< 1503522399 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to use very different techniques than any previous answer to get the biggest number so far
< 1503522405 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean to get the best answer so far
< 1503522494 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: looks like it's still broken: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/18028/largest-number-printable
< 1503522523 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ban on multiplication, in particular, is highly arbitrary
< 1503522526 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503522585 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ban on multiplication? so then posting a max size answer saying "1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+"... is the only thing you can do?
< 1503522636 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no, there are a ton of things that aren't banned
< 1503522645 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication isn't really important, you can implement it using nested loops if you need it
< 1503522674 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503522678 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's broken
< 1503522722 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your printed number will be divided by the cube of the number of bytes you used for your solution." seems useless
< 1503522761 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: definitely
< 1503522767 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many useless rules like that
< 1503522777 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503522788 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it works as a bignum competition because the rules don't significantly change the results you can get, but it doesn't work because the rules are so arbitrary
< 1503522804 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by stack exchange rules you can't post a duplicate with better rules…
< 1503522879 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> floor $ 1/0
< 1503522882 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1797693134862315907729305190789024733617976978942306572734300811577326758055...
< 1503522902 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it doesn't print the whole thing
< 1503522929 0 :zseri!5e86c2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.194.241 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1503522941 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that comes from the "largest number in 10 bytes of code" thread on PPCG; it's certainly not as large as it could be, but the fact that floor(infinity) is a specific, finite integer in Haskell is fairly amazing)
< 1503522952 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503522965 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503523141 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much score would that give you if you find a programming language where the empty code prints a positive number?
< 1503523170 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such languages exist, e.g. Retina
< 1503523175 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which prints 1 upon running the empty program
< 1503523218 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, it prints the number of characters in stdin + 1, but PPCG normally assumes that stdin is empty)
< 1503523310 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commodore 64 boots to saying "    **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 ****\n\n 64K RAM SYSTEM  38911 BYTES FREE\n\nREADY.\n" does that count as printing 38911 as the largest number? or even 65536 because the 64K clearly stands for that in that context?
< 1503523379 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have told you once, I think? but now I'm happier not needing PPCG rules memorised :-)
< 1503523393 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, away for a bit, I need to go buy food before the shops shut
< 1503523397 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know, it doesn't really matter
< 1503523582 0 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcbdinq5hqv20b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503523664 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503523664 0 :AnotherTest_!?@? NICK :AnotherTest
< 1503523872 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed doesn't work, it prints the size of its input file if you give the filename as the command-line argument. I had to install ed for this. Damn you, debian. I had specifically installed bc and dc before, but I missed ed.
< 1503523888 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I know I don't use it often, but it's also a very small program.
< 1503523958 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they didn't choose to not install it in base because of some stupid security problem, like how it can execute arbitrary things if you give untrusted input as ed commands.
< 1503523976 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/stupid/stupid alleged/
< 1503523992 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, the kind of things some people complain about
< 1503524059 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this is a unix distribution, not a padded mental institute cell with your shoelaces removed
< 1503524078 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they probably just removed it because it's not really essential and nobody was using it
< 1503524105 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1503524109 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic error message
< 1503524201 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, help me google a thing
< 1503524211 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :months ago i found a paper on arxiv
< 1503524219 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/dying-wish => wait, just one season?
< 1503524229 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about a new theoretic model that was more cache aware
< 1503524247 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: oh, that already sounds easier than what I asked. the paper you're looking for probably exists, the one I asked might not.
< 1503524277 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :several algorithms have a different runtime in that model, for instance heap sort is O(n log^2 n)
< 1503524316 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I've gone 10 months since installation and no ed.
< 1503524323 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as cache-aware as a six-tape Turing machine, right?
< 1503524350 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ask somewhere else
< 1503524498 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is log^2 n supposed to mean log(n)^2 or log(log(n))?
< 1503524505 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's the former, but that's pretty confusing.
< 1503524526 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (log n)^2
< 1503524615 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the former
< 1503524648 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very rare to write log log n as log^2 n, because that would be too confusing. people rather write up to four iterations of log explicitly, and use other notations when they really need to write positive number of iterations
< 1503524659 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you rarely need more than four iterations of log
< 1503524680 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're in log* n territory
< 1503524704 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just log log log log does appear in that stupidly specific limit distribution theorem)
< 1503524713 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps you're saying that it'll be essentially constant anyway...
< 1503524730 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like that \alpha from Tarjan's analysis of disjoint set forests
< 1503524777 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when you have an algorithm that takes inverse busy beaver time.
< 1503524837 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1503524849 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be fun
< 1503524911 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I really don't see how that would happen
< 1503525555 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back, but not for long
< 1503525561 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be properly back in a few hours (not sure yet)
< 1503525580 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503525594 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503525616 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, something that came up in one of the NetHack channels and I thought "b_jonas might know this": is there a mythological or famous fictional creature that's noted for being afraid of the dark?
< 1503525644 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afraid of the dark... hmm let me think
< 1503525747 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, humans are sometimes portrayed as being afraid of darkness
< 1503525781 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... how dark do you want or for how long? there's a few ridiculous photosynthetizing humanoids that know they can't live in the dark for more than a few days
< 1503525830 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503525832 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: we basically (for gameplay reasons) wanted a powerful monster that wouldn't enter corridors, and I thought being afraid of the dark would be a good way to explain that (corridors are normally unlit, so "won't enter dark squares" and "won't enter corridors" have sufficient gameplay similiarity)
< 1503525858 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's something about shades or shadows, but that probably wasn't being afraid as such
< 1503525869 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could have a monster that's powered by light somehow? it seems like the sort of thing that Doctor Who would have, although I can't offhand think of a monster from there that actually is
< 1503525890 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't enter corridors... you can just have monsters that are too big or afraid of narrow tunnels or afraid of being surrounded for strategic reasons
< 1503525920 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too big" is an obvious thought but it doesn' really work in NetHack, which has single-square dragons
< 1503525938 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd better go, thought I'd just throw this out there first in case it inspired you to think of something "in the background"
< 1503525961 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone
< 1503525964 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that behaves like a human child intellectually could be afraid of the dark, but that works better for an ally than for a normally hostile creature
< 1503525978 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: bye
< 1503526071 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps an animal that was once captured in a cage and REALLY didn't like that might be afraid of tight spaces so much that he usually remains far from even walls
< 1503526097 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course nh already have stationary monsters that aren't generated in corridors
< 1503526242 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the olist monster in the dark is afraid of the dark.
< 1503526367 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big isn't impossible in nethack, it's just either hard to implement (a long worm like creature that takes up say four tiles forming a square) or hard to flavor (a one-tile monster bigger than even krakens and elder dragons)
< 1503526682 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can implement four-tile creatures, then you could change some dragons to elder dragons. you can then turn the quest dragons to be that large, they both have a suitable map.
< 1503526693 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(krakens could also be big, but they already don't go to corridors)
< 1503526725 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also find other very big creatures in mythology and fiction
< 1503526931 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503527365 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, besides fizzie and gregor nobody here knows about UMLBox, right?
< 1503527385 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503527579 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much black magic did you put into UMLBox? 'umlbox -B -v echo DEADBEEF' doesnt work with the error of https://ptpb.pw/Evrs, yet my bot's sandbox works as if nothing is wrong.
< 1503527640 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a5d4:789e:37a4:3b27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do see it echo DEADBEEF halfway through
< 1503527740 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so it seems like moony kernel panic happens after the sandbox program sucessfully runs
< 1503527744 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might explain why it works
< 1503528410 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fizzie, I'm quite sure the conff issue you helped me with before isn't related to my actual issue of stuff not running on UMLBox, since moony does have the same conff issue, but it happens afters he runs the command sucessfully.
< 1503528433 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I'm sharing the fix you gave me before with him to see if there's any difference with his stuff
< 1503528496 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to make it a bit tidy for when you see this, this is the output of 'umlbox -B -v echo DEADBEEF' for me and moony
< 1503528533 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me: https://ghostbin.com/paste/as6r3
< 1503528547 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: https://ptpb.pw/Evrs
< 1503528633 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: Looks like you're getting the same "configuration repeats" thing we saw when debugging.
< 1503528637 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as above.
< 1503528656 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that'd explain why the bot takes forever to process
< 1503528658 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it wouldn't really stop it from running the command, it'd just do some odd things afterwards.
< 1503528676 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure why it doesn't work for me
< 1503528706 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed that when moony runs something it seems like " | cat" is added to the command
< 1503528712 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my output doesn't do that
< 1503528723 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it does when it thinks the output isn't a tty.
< 1503528736 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay.
< 1503528738 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, in the case of my bot, it isnt.
< 1503528769 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. *makes connection* rdococ has been in ##werewolf all along and i never noticed. how.
< 1503528779 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:P
< 1503528789 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice.
< 1503528830 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the | cat is added to make the command that gets run inside the UML kernel to similarly see a non-tty output. Because otherwise it sees the UML console, which always is a tty as seen from the inside, even if the output fd it's redirected to isn't.
< 1503529328 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to try something out, maybe (temporarily) change the umlbox script's line   "con1=" + childStdin + ",fd:" + str(childStdout),   to instead be   "con1=" + childStdin + ",fd:" + stdoutws,   (and keep using the -v flag)
< 1503529374 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1503529387 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. People figured out how to make dpkg work in linbut lol
< 1503529631 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I get an error.
< 1503529647 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/cc4g5
< 1503529657 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ input ../tty1
< 1503529657 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :open(rfile, O_RDONLY): No such device or address
< 1503529684 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, that should've been:   "con1=" + childStdin + "," + stdoutws,
< 1503529699 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you ended up with the argument 'con1=fd:0,fd:fd:1' which is one "fd:" too many.
< 1503529778 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/tkxnn
< 1503529846 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The error changed, fizzie. Now the device is busy.
< 1503529876 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's probably because it's using stdoutws (aka fd:1) also for that other console spec.
< 1503529919 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could definitely try to work around that as well, but I'm just puzzled as to why it's not working in the first place.
< 1503530140 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to use jenkins to talk to another jenkins
< 1503530166 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? jenkins
< 1503530210 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jenkins? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503530281 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503530301 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503530328 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a shame that there's no way to know what's wrong with it
< 1503530354 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to get UMLBox working, but I guess that's enough trying for today
< 1503530427 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm.
< 1503530453 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to strace the kernel execution, but it might be doing a bit too much for that to be readable.
< 1503530480 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's definitely something odd when it comes to the terminal handling. For me, umlbox works fine, but running it once somehow manages to break the stdin of subsequent commands, which I don't even understand how that's possible. I mean, look at this: http://sprunge.us/NKbS
< 1503530496 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a lot of weird stuff happens too
< 1503530520 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to run sudo, I'm completely unable to input the password in the same terminal where I ran umlbox before
< 1503530582 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really that great for interactive use, it might be best to stick with having some other program call umlbox for you, the way it works on HackEgo.
< 1503530594 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows, it's even borderline possible it would work in that context.
< 1503530598 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in order to check if the issue is if there's no output or if there's no visible, I should use umlbox to make a permanent change (ie touch a file or make a dir), which folder is writtable by umlbox?
< 1503530671 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing on the host is writable by default. You can pass in an extra argument like   -fw /some/dir   which will mount /some/dir from the host to the guest in read-write mode.
< 1503530754 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like it runs the command
< 1503530758 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no output at all
< 1503530784 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried with umlbox -B -v -fw /test touch /test/didit
< 1503530790 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing in /test
< 1503530799 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503530811 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does /test exist, and do you have write permissions in it as the user you run umlbox as? 
< 1503530824 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also what do the logs look like?)
< 1503530828 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and I ran umlbox as sudo
< 1503530852 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the output: https://ghostbin.com/paste/8xyvf
< 1503530922 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder if that might have something to do with permissions *inside* the UML. Try adding -s as well? 
< 1503530933 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It runs the command as root inside the UML.)
< 1503530951 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1503530953 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1503530959 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of trying to run umlbox with sudo
< 1503530972 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made myself owner of /test and tried again without sudo
< 1503530975 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time it worked
< 1503531082 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be because the umlbox init doesn't really expect UML to be executed as root.
< 1503531118 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses uid/gid 0 to mean "unset" for the uid/gid it runs the command as, and when they're unset it picks random uid/gid.
< 1503531141 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox, get in ##werewolf
< 1503531144 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess in general there shouldn't be any reason to try running umlbox as root.)
< 1503531150 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1503531160 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least now I know that the stuff runs in umlbox even if I can't see it
< 1503531162 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:a5d4:789e:37a4:3b27 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503531172 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/dlA01qW.png
< 1503531183 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're back at the issues with console output
< 1503531188 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox, ##werewolf
< 1503531194 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay
< 1503531308 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Out of curiosity, what happens if you try something like this: http://sprunge.us/dTBG
< 1503531321 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503531495 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://ghostbin.com/paste/dvb8c
< 1503531505 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1503531523 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're still affected by whatever mysterious output redirection problems you're having.
< 1503531529 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :So odd, though.
< 1503531543 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe redirecting the output to a file?
< 1503531564 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, that should *work*, but it's more than a little clumsy.
< 1503531608 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are stuff that I'm not sure about though
< 1503531717 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you *are* seeing the init's output (and therefore clearly getting *something* out), if you really just want to hack it to make it work, chances are you could just fiddle with the conX= and subprocess.call arguments in the umlbox script until you hit a combination that works.
< 1503531799 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And/or the "output ..." stanza it writes to the config file.)
< 1503531814 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure if it really works though
< 1503531829 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try building a current kernel and see how that goes for me.
< 1503531850 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, when I try something with umlbox that shouldn't end inmediately (ie: the bot I'm trying to run) still ends inmediately
< 1503531856 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1503531859 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be interesting
< 1503531864 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's output after the run
< 1503531874 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing relevant, but there's something
< 1503531889 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/2jhto
< 1503531904 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcbdinq5hqv20b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503531914 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that can help identifying the issue?
< 1503532121 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie if it's useful for what you want to do, I'm running 4.12.8 in the host, and also 4.12.8 as the uml kernel
< 1503532136 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503532145 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1503532185 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like "uninitialized urandom read" is a kernel message, which probably explains why you're seeing it.
< 1503532197 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd go to the same console all those debugging lines do.
< 1503532249 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay
< 1503532270 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually fizzie, if you feel like replicating the issues I'm having, doing a fresh arch linux install should do the trick
< 1503532301 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what I've done in my laptop, I installed it fresh yesterday and it's having the exact same issues I'm having with my desktop, so chances are you will have them too
< 1503532305 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a hacky trick to try, locate the lines in the umlbox script that do the   input ../tty1   and   output ../tty1   and change them to   input /console   and   output /console   instead. (/console is a file the umlbox init makes and uses for its own output.)
< 1503532318 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1503532324 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's a funny thing: http://sprunge.us/NKbS
< 1503532388 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that second cat running inside or outside umlbox?
< 1503532396 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Outside.
< 1503532415 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It leaves the terminal in that state, and I don't know of a way to undo it.
< 1503532434 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so that error message is EAGAIN
< 1503532439 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no such file or directory
< 1503532459 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/kvpg5
< 1503532485 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you find out which system call is erroring out? "strace cat" would normally be enough, you might need to redirect the output to a file though (strace has an -o option to write to a file)
< 1503532500 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Oh, sorry, make that "../console" instead. Looks like init prepends "/host/" to it.
< 1503532506 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that one of the standard file descriptors has somehow been set to non-blocking mode, that'd be an easy way to cause spurious EAGAINs
< 1503532527 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ooh, nonblocking, that sounds plausible.
< 1503532549 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY
< 1503532552 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GET OUTPUT NOW
< 1503532572 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I see why the bot wasn't working, I wasn't mounting /mnt so it couldn't read the bot file
< 1503532596 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love you fizzie, I can't thank you for all the help you've been offering me the last days
< 1503532652 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't?
< 1503532659 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something a bit weird though, fizzie
< 1503532684 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like I can see the output by running stuff with -v, but nothing without it
< 1503532695 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah -- read(0, 0x7f086c62c000, 131072) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable) -- and: http://sprunge.us/FCWe
< 1503532721 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/6pffa
< 1503532739 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like a mistake in the shell somehow? it shouldn't be letting applications it runs permanently change the mode of its file descriptors
< 1503532807 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: That's not too surprising. The script closes the place it puts /console to by default, since normally the command output goes via tty1.
< 1503532833 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: You could use the --debug flag (in place of -v), I think that might leave it open but not print any extra stuff.
< 1503532872 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, debug gives me the same as -v
< 1503532885 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I should be fine with running it with -v for now
< 1503532916 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I need to make the script call umlbox, it should be fine if I run the bot with umlbox
< 1503532937 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that any subprocess created by something with umlbox will be sandboxed too, right?
< 1503533035 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume that it'd be running within the same umlbox process, although I'm not sure
< 1503533055 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, though if you put the bot inside umlbox, it's hard to make the bot have access to any sort of modifiable thing that you don't want the commands it executes to have access to.
< 1503533060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503533073 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're okay with an entirely stateless thing, then that's maybe not really an issue.
< 1503533166 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bots are typically stateless
< 1503533169 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot is, for example
< 1503533417 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the bot complains about the lack of a module
< 1503533421 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Kind of a fun fact: on recent kernels, UML's virtual block device (ubd), if you point it at a file smaller than the block size (512 bytes), seems to wrap around in the source file when you try to read past the end.
< 1503533427 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It kind of reminds me of what game consoles and other memory mapped things do "naturally" when you have a fixed amount of address space bits connected to something with less physical address lines.
< 1503533431 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except this one isn't restricted to powers of two for the size of the thing it repeats.)
< 1503533468 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie Do you know if I can make the umlbox script I'm running with python virtualenvs?
< 1503533478 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any way to get the module working with umlbox
< 1503533491 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, this has been known to cause problems when games are moved to consoles with more memory (likewise for DOS programs running on a newer processor)
< 1503533501 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's quite easy to write a program to accidentally make use of addresses past the end of memory
< 1503533510 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they wrap rather than crashing, you won't notice until you move to a system with more memory
< 1503533650 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: In theory you should be able to run the venv activation script inside UML, assuming you've got the necessary directories mirrored from the host.
< 1503533688 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503533693 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any trivial way to "inherit" the virtualenv from outside, since there's no mechanism to pass environment variables in.
< 1503533725 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do it? In order to activate it I would have to cd to the directory first, and as far as I know umlbox won't keep that cwd
< 1503533793 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run something like 'bash -c "cd /blah; source bin/activate; command --you=want"' instead of just command --you=want.
< 1503533814 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That reminds me of https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHj4WQ_UAAAHg8v.jpg which I saw the other day.
< 1503533845 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or you can have a shell script that activates the virtualenv and runs the thing you want to run, and then run *that* with umlbox.)
< 1503533871 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I vaguely remember compiler/OS combinations that put something meaningful at address 0 to catch that sort of issue
< 1503533876 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS is that screenshot from?
< 1503533921 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503533969 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1503533986 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that the bot needs internet in order to communicate with the servers, so I can't sandbox the whole bot
< 1503534004 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I would have to sandbox the part of the code where it runs arbitrary code, and for that I would need umlbox to work without -v
< 1503534109 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any idea fizzie?
< 1503534134 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the worst case scenario I could probably make it work with -v and filtering out the output of umlbox
< 1503534313 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm kinda tired so I'll ask you tomorrow. Thanks again for all the help fizzie!
< 1503534315 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Well, I mean, you should definitely be able to hack it to make it work. For example, you can easily make init silent (just edit in init.c the lines  i = open("/console", O_RDONLY);  and  o = open("/console", O_WRONLY);  to open /dev/null instead), and add in umlbox script a kernel command line argument "console=tty1" to the end of the 'cmd' array to make the kernel messages go elsewhere too.
< 1503534342 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: if the bot's just connecting to IRC, you can normally just have the internet connection in a separate process and connecting to umlbox's stdin and stdout with pipes
< 1503534362 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the answers
< 1503534384 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umlbox has a TCP and Unix domain socket forwarding mechanism as well, incidentally.
< 1503534399 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on multiplexing them over a single virtual tty.)
< 1503534413 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a piece of code running both inside and outside.)
< 1503534417 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot is actually for discord, but I could do that. However I was thinking that it would be a better idea to run the main bot outside of the sandbox and then make the bot run the code in a subprocess with popen, that launches umlbox
< 1503534434 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably the more conventional way.
< 1503534434 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way any code run from the bot can't edit the bot itself since I could make it read only
< 1503534446 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, the reason you'd do it that way would be to make it impossible for the bot to connect anywhere it wasn't supposed to
< 1503534471 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, see you tomorrow guys
< 1503534491 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if nesting UML kernels works. They were doing something moderately tricky about address spaces at some point in the past.
< 1503534542 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nesting valgrind works, IIRC, but has some special hacks to make it work
< 1503534590 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with all these sorts of programs is that they tend to be written in a way that handles common cases, but really weird stuff can be much harder to handle
< 1503534594 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet the program does really weird things itself
< 1503534607 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, well, it didn't work out of the box (no pun intended).
< 1503534610 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to get registers from stub, errno = 3
< 1503534610 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait_stub_done : failed to wait for SIGTRAP, pid = 357, n = 357, errno = 0, status = 0x9
< 1503534616 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :web of lies is very unlikely to be nestable, for example; the program I'm working on at work also isn't sanely nestable
< 1503534707 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently at least at some point, you can do it, but the kernel you run inside UML needs to have been built with CONFIG_NEST_LEVEL=1.
< 1503534722 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a single binary isn't nestable, but you can build UML kernels for specific nesting levels.
< 1503534738 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503534772 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since this page says "the outer UML must be at least 2.4.18-22, which is not released at this writing, but will be soon", I'm not terribly confident this is true any more.)
< 1503535192 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guessing Amiga Unix from the bit at the end?
< 1503535221 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503535370 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503535386 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. \ dentist//Dentists are professional workers whose main line of work is creating dents on various surfaces. \ \//\ was initially popular as a replacement for the solidus, but inevitably there was a backslash. \ anagol//anagol is A
< 1503535428 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that backslash one is fairly funny
< 1503535436 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503535437 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:narchy Golf, code golf server at http://golf.shinh.org/ \ intercal//INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
< 1503535452 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his523.
< 1503535454 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I don't think this wisdom database has much to do with what the channel's originally meant to be about
< 1503535472 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, there's still enough ontopic dicussion to make the channel worthwhile, at least from time to time
< 1503535864 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel alienated here, like I'm not meant to be on this channel, talking.
< 1503535929 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd define the general on-topicality of this subject as being about programming languages and techniques that aren't typically needed or useful in serious programs
< 1503535935 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and umlbox is in that sphere at the moment
< 1503535945 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with esolangs is that if an esolang gets popular enough, it stops being esoteric
< 1503535950 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this may arguably have happened with Prolog)
< 1503535955 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdochelloc.
< 1503535959 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox?
< 1503535970 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the sandbox that hackego uses
< 1503535984 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on user mode linux
< 1503535985 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A language can be popular and not serious.
< 1503535990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esolang
< 1503535991 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503535994 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, wisdom database.
< 1503536008 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: examples? I'm not sure I agree, at least for the usual definitions of "popular"
< 1503536081 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. umlbox was explained to me multiple times already >_>'...
< 1503536093 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's brain defaults to UML diagrams. I've been tainted

< 1503536107 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:31b3:4a20:bbe5:9901 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503536121 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: UML diagrams are the bane of everyone who tries to search the internet for User Mode Linux -related material.
< 1503536153 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML is really weird as concepts go
< 1503536171 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea, of having a consistent syntax for allowing people to explain object oriented concepts to each other as diagrams, makes sense
< 1503536195 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then if you have something like 8 types of diagram and some organizations try to write programs in UML first and then rewrite them in a language that can actually be run…
< 1503536245 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also way to highly dependent on concepts that don't actually apply in all languages
< 1503536248 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too
< 1503536273 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf, fizziello, hellorcah.
< 1503536292 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML “works” for Java and C++, and that's about it.
< 1503536330 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for making shiny figures for ISO certification.
< 1503536472 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Java, C++ and C# together form a very large proportion of the actual programming job market, though
< 1503536540 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any language designed to interoperate with Java or C# will be able to support the concepts UML discusses, even if they aren't idiomatic
< 1503536657 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.
< 1503537081 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going by what you said, but maybe I didn't read it precisely.
< 1503537809 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1503538130 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503538360 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi imode
< 1503538424 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rdococ.
< 1503539304 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:31b3:4a20:bbe5:9901 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
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< 1503541062 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is such a thing in GURPS as a switchable advantage that has no effect?
< 1503541236 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503541268 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:53 / 31:03
< 1503541268 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did a search. https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/117785/4918 Wizard of Oz: “The Witch was too much afraid of the dark to dare go in Dorothy's room at night to take the shoes, and her dread of water was greater than her fear of the dark, so she never came near when Dorothy was bathing.”
< 1503541297 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, interesting
< 1503541300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably not widely known
< 1503541391 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did know the witch doesn't like water, just like many undead, I even have a ticket on the old tracker for it, but I didn't remember he's afraid of the dark.
< 1503541399 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an actual quote according to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz/Chapter_12 by the way
< 1503541584 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make that if you want to make them not go into dark but also not going into the water, I suppose?
< 1503541663 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I had a proposal to make most of the undead not go into water, although that really depends on which legend about undead you look at
< 1503541692 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the undead in the Arany János ballad “A hamis tanú” specifically goes only in the river
< 1503541752 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also corporeal (unlike, say, Moaning Myrtle's ghost) and not of some water-based creature type like the skeleton fish in super mario
< 1503542342 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, they're just normal fish I chewed alive because they're so tasty when fresh
< 1503542392 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that doesn't explain why they're immune to fire unlike most fish in some of the mario games
< 1503542455 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're bone
< 1503542455 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1503542481 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're in water
< 1503542514 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think it's because an evil wizard placed a voodoo curse on a shark to force the skelefish to become immune to fire.
< 1503543091 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think the most common legend related to the undead and water is that vampires can't cross running water under their own power
< 1503543102 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's possible for someone else to carry the vampire across)
< 1503543181 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The undead are weak to everything these days. Water, fire, ice...
< 1503543196 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightning - though, sometimes that's how they're created in the first place...
< 1503543196 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any stories with some kind of vampire carrying service?
< 1503543214 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the typical niche that undead play in stories, when they're just an enemy, is that they're very hard to stop unless you exploit a specific weakness
< 1503543229 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but there are similar legends about some undead other than water too
< 1503543235 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means that they need a lot of weaknesses for the stories to work correctly
< 1503543239 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Discworld has that legend about zombies
< 1503543255 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :A specific weakness such as the weakness that exists in two thirds of all human beings?
< 1503543286 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is played for laugh when someone wants to use it as a test for zombies but misinterprets "undead can't pass over water" as "undead can't pass water" (as in pee)
< 1503543305 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: it's more that they're resistant to almost everything, so anything that they aren't resistant to counts as a weakness by comparison
< 1503543368 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't that mean the water would have to be damaging in the first place to even affect them?
< 1503543369 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and there's all the modern myths about water test used in medieval witch hunt, in which the people throw someone to the river, and if they don't drown because the pure water hates them so much it expels them, they're a witch
< 1503543408 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tests are exaggerated, but it is based on an authentic legend about witches and pure water. the actual tests were probably more gentle and stopped before drowning
< 1503543432 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TRICK CHICKEN
< 1503543432 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, people like to exaggerate ancient witch tests because it's funny to think "if the test doesn't kill them, we execute them"
< 1503543438 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "it's more that they're resistant to almost everything, so anything that they aren't resistant to counts as a weakness by comparison" => yes, I have one like that:
< 1503543439 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the flaw in such a test would become obvious very quickly
< 1503543645 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vampires are immortal, which means the only way to kill them is… [choose one] {A silver bullet, A stake through their heart, Bright light, Garlic, Holy water, Holy wafers sewn in their mouth, A chainsaw, Cutting their supply of blood, The crow of a rooster, Water, Fire, Magic, In their bat form, By accident, Killing their elders first, Making them 
< 1503543645 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop culture icons}
< 1503543685 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other sorts of undead have so many resistances that they seem to be unkillable too, including werewolves, zombies, and ghosts.
< 1503543690 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503543754 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and although it's funny that witches can float on water because the water hates them, and seems more like a strength than a weakness, it does actually make more sense that the more modern legends
< 1503543758 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :werewolves aren't a sort of undead?
< 1503543791 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the undead in “A hamis tanú” actually probably also works in that way, with the water and everything else hating its body
< 1503543878 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that in modern times, a humanoid that can float on water was no longer too strange, and for an undead that normally flies or floats above ground it's even more irrelevant (mind you, in D&D, even for living people it's harder to magically fly over water than to magically fly over land, for some reason)
< 1503543884 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they changed the myth
< 1503543898 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in some legends about werewolves, it is an undead, yes. the nethack werewolf isn't.
< 1503543918 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Harry Potter werewolf is also not an undead
< 1503543925 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of any legends where werewolves are undead (in the sense of "monster mostly formed of the corpse or spirit of a dead human")
< 1503543964 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me search
< 1503543969 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: in Battle for Wesnoth, spirits get a reduced flying movement rate over water (although they don't get a dodge penalty, like walking through water gives you); I think it might be for balance reasons
< 1503543993 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably rarer than undead vampires, which is the norm
< 1503544002 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and undead witches, which is an authentic legend
< 1503544047 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that the body or part of the body of witches is supposed to be cold, which made sense as a secret hard to test feature back before thermometers
< 1503544106 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :undead werewolf might actually be a modern legend, but then the whole general category of undead is probably modern too
< 1503544190 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong
< 1503544198 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently werewolves are never truly undead
< 1503544213 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just gained a few vampire traits that make them seem a little like undead
< 1503544216 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are living actually
< 1503544266 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm a fool
< 1503544301 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one fictional creature that is unquestionable afraid of the dark in first place, as opposed to damaged by the dark quickly or slowly or avoiding dark or anything like that
< 1503544319 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are esoteric non-programming things ontopic in here?
< 1503544372 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: esotericism almost certainly isn't; things that aren't directly related to programming but are weird enough to be interesting would probably not be objected to even though they aren't technically on topic
< 1503544388 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the intelligent people of Lagash/Kaglash in the Asimov story “Nightfall” and its novellization with the same title
< 1503544395 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, esoteric financial instruments?
< 1503544403 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a channel like this, you have three bands, I think: "on topic", "off topic but tolerated/enjoyed by the community", "off topic and you're told to stop"
< 1503544411 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're afraid of the dark for psychological reasons, even though they're not actually directly damaged by the darkness
< 1503544419 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible that most people here just don't care about financial instruments
< 1503544421 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a proposal that all finanical instruments should be written in Python in order to make them unambiguous
< 1503544425 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe they are a subset of programming :-D
< 1503544427 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they go to a dark place for more than a few minutes, they get really scared and may start to panic
< 1503544437 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python? No thanks
< 1503544448 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, my reaction was "why Python?"
< 1503544450 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this needs strong darkness, not just under the trees at dusk
< 1503544456 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's fairly easy to read for somoene who doesn't know it?
< 1503544475 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously they should use a JavaScript derivative
< 1503544487 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the APL family of languages (including things like Jelly), which are famously hard to read if you don't know them
< 1503544501 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Ethereum, or whatever that thing is
< 1503544509 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's called Solidity
< 1503544510 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even joking
< 1503544518 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1503544522 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was hilarious in the context of our site…
< 1503544523 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes it ontopic
< 1503544528 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're unlikely to appear on Earth, partly because they don't do spacefaring, partly because they fear the dark and the Earth has dark parts, and partly because this plays "a long long time ago, in a galaxy far away", and they might also be incompatible with Earth's chemical environment or gravity
< 1503544549 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, Solidity would almost certainly be considered an esolang if not for perhaps being too widly used
< 1503544560 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other programming languages have semantics where using them inherently requires spending money?
< 1503544562 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not completely impossible to find them on Earth, especially not in a nethack dungeon that already has the widest variety of creatures that you wouldn't really suppose to find there
< 1503544581 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, seriously, Green-elves? Green elves are elves who live in a *forest* by definition.)
< 1503544597 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is solidity the opposite of liquidity?
< 1503544622 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's probably easy to read, but you can also find summaries of it because it's a good and popular enough book, and the summaries are probably enough for adding them to nethack
< 1503544622 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liquidity is a fascinating subject in finance. I should learn more about it.
< 1503544714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general concept is simple enough
< 1503544728 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you probably need to know a bit more than what I told about them
< 1503544737 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have money but can't spend it, are you actually rich?
< 1503544747 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty philosophically interesting though when you put it like that
< 1503544769 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they live on a planet with five or six suns in a strange orbit where you never have all of them under the horizon at the same time anywhere on the planet
< 1503544781 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why they are not used to darkness
< 1503544795 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you measure liquidity?
< 1503544818 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they call it "night" when the big sun is not in the sky
< 1503544821 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: normally the amount of money that you could theoretically spend on short notice
< 1503544834 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to invent a financial instrument that can let a name assign a price to expected liquidity
< 1503544842 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including via selling things if you can sell them quickly
< 1503544852 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard because liquidity is a multidimensional thing.
< 1503544856 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they like to always have at least a little lamp lit in their houses, but that's mostly symbolic, because even if that lamp goes off, they get enough light through the windows
< 1503544903 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the story is about a certain even that happens once every two thousand years, when a significant part of the planet goes totally dark because the only sun is eclipsed by a moon
< 1503544924 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how block (I.e
< 1503544947 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the civilization doesn't expect this because don't know about the moon because it's normally invisible because of the sun glare,
< 1503544954 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :large) trades are made? That's a big part of the liquidity story, I suppose.
< 1503544973 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no
< 1503544979 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have just enough astronomy to predict the movement of the suns but not enough to figure out the moon from its gravity effects
< 1503545001 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's only an ancient legend about that total darkness and many people don't believe that legend
< 1503545013 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that there are companies who are willing to trade capital for liquidity (i.e. they'll buy things that are hard to sell, at less than the full price that could be gotten for a trade negotiated over a long time)
< 1503545020 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when the total darkness happens, they see the stars for the first time,
< 1503545045 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there's a company advertising on television in the UK, and the adverts state that they'll buy cars from you for less than they're worth but with a very quick turnaround
< 1503545050 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a great effect on them just like how the discovery of a large universe had a great effect on the Krikket people in HHGG
< 1503545059 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess capital-for-liquidity trades are available to the general public too, at least in one direction
< 1503545088 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of starting a war against the rest of the world, they go crazy and start to burn their own world to create light from the temporary flames,
< 1503545095 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and destroy much of their own civilization
< 1503545135 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the short story is good so you might want to read it anyway even after I spoiled most of it
< 1503545144 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't spoil everything, but still)
< 1503545151 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I got pretty close)
< 1503545226 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1503545253 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read the past few pages of text in much detail because I was using my phone.
< 1503545257 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: who was that directed at?
< 1503545262 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which story.
< 1503545317 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pretty much every trade you ever make involves trading capaital for liquidity to some degree.
< 1503545341 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and this service is also offered to the population for gold and silver (jewlery but also scrap gold), but in the form of quickly buying the gold or silver at half price, and in the form of quickly giving a short term loan of say a tenth of the price of the gold but a loan that you aren't required to pay off if you don't want the gold b
< 1503545341 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack
< 1503545343 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crossing networks are interesting. Do people use them?
< 1503545385 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they can do this with good rates because it's easy to quickly test for gold content, much more so than quickly testing the value of a used car
< 1503545422 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also done for some other sorts of valuables that are easy to test and people often have it, but gold and silver are the most important
< 1503545425 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of the exact definition of "liquidity" in general use, but I use it with the rough meaning "ability to trade"
< 1503545459 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ability to trade is almost always valuable, so someone almost always pays for it, though the way they pay for it might not be obvious.
< 1503545496 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so anyway, if you want a nh monster that can wander around in a lit room but doesn't go in dark corridors, then I think a person from Lagash would work
< 1503545511 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many different ways that you might want to trade, so there are many different types of liquidity. But they're usually related.
< 1503545541 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're easy to add because we know so little about them, such as their body and physical capabilities, that you can invent close to anything you need for game reasons
< 1503545601 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you usually find out very little about the physical characteristics of characters in Asimov's books, but most of them are at least humans or humanoid robots, while the Lagash people have no reason to be close to that
< 1503545639 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? solidity
< 1503545640 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solidity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503545750 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're restricted very little about the nh character. they have to be intelligent and motile, but they could have any size, shape of body, almost any item use capabilities except they're certainly not zero carrying cap, a wide choice in attacks and resistances
< 1503545757 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(definitely not fire resistant)
< 1503545787 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and definitely not blind.
< 1503545793 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably don't like to be blinded
< 1503545796 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really don't like
< 1503545843 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you blind them, I expect they go into a rage of panic, although they may have resistance against blinding by bright light and may be able to wipe off cream pies and perhaps even ravens can't blind them
< 1503545868 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect if you want to make a nethack monster
< 1503545932 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the race has a well-known name, but Lagashian would probably work if you explain it in the 'cyclopedia
< 1503545962 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Solidity is an esolang for writing contracts. It has good support for secure linear algebra.
< 1503545966 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'solidity': Solidity is an esolang for writing contracts. It has good support for secure linear algebra.
< 1503545967 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please improve twh
< 1503545983 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that help?
< 1503546012 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: perhaps; I'm not sure if this would work directly but it's given me some thoughts
< 1503546043 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know your gameplay mechanical motivations, so they might fail for that reason
< 1503546044 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your input, anyway
< 1503546160 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also a story about humans collectively panicking when darkness falls, but they weren't afraid as such, it's just that the Sun unexpectedly went out at some point and stayed dark for several days)
< 1503546171 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's definitely not what you want)
< 1503546210 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why it would induce panic, though
< 1503546218 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503546281 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and it was mostly the sensible kind of panic, when everyone tried to rob stockpiles of food
< 1503546298 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prepare for an inevitable war
< 1503546312 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it relit again at some point?
< 1503546327 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503546358 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which didn't *completely* calm people down, because after that, you expect another similar event, but yeah
< 1503547038 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: are you thinking Nightfall?
< 1503549580 0 :mpm!1812da50@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.218.80 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503549809 0 :mpm!1812da50@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.218.80 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503549889 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503550187 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503551765 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally unplayable http://imgur.com/6ByIhNT
< 1503551937 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"21th century"
< 1503552180 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503555214 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: whoa, the chicken chicken chicken paper is by dougz
< 1503555278 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is.
< 1503555424 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I knew that at one point.
< 1503555450 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This picture is TG: https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21014227_1567793873283268_4987278837085860246_o.jpg?oh=414f17cce92053674421e37ed33642e1&oe=5A613408
< 1503555456 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the topic of chickens.
< 1503555552 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, chicken of the woods.
< 1503555871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone won the chicken lottery.
< 1503555879 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like mushrooms?
< 1503556486 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503556536 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Motekye 5*  10New user account
< 1503556542 0 :zseri!5e86df4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.223.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503556631 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503556795 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503556970 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52923&oldid=52920 5* 03Motekye 5* (+252) 10/* Introductions */
< 1503557224 0 :zseri!5e86df4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.223.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503557516 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52924&oldid=52916 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+1) 10/* Output */
< 1503557563 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52925&oldid=52924 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+98) 10/* Loops: */
< 1503557695 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07B1nary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52926&oldid=52925 5* 03UtilityHotbar 5* (+46) 10/* Interpreters: */
< 1503558018 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/abusefilter14]]4 modify10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10modified [[02Special:AbuseFilter/510]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/5/diff/prev/59]])
< 1503558040 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hmcvunqcuunlcvel JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503558041 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific strain of spambots that was stopping don't seem to be around, and it was hitting false positives
< 1503558361 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1503558868 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1503559841 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mypalmike 5*  10New user account
< 1503560240 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52927&oldid=52923 5* 03Mypalmike 5* (+323) 10Hi there.
< 1503561105 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503561123 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Mypalmike 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Add1.ska.png.png10]]"
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< 1503561925 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Skastic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52929 5* 03Mypalmike 5* (+622) 10Initial description
< 1503562007 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52930&oldid=52900 5* 03Mypalmike 5* (+14) 10add skastic
< 1503562050 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Skastic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52931&oldid=52929 5* 03Mypalmike 5* (-30) 10
< 1503562207 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Skastic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52932&oldid=52931 5* 03Mypalmike 5* (-3) 10
< 1503562982 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
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< 1503564914 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1503565279 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: yes, I did specifically say Nightfall above
< 1503565318 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alerchah: um wait, I mean Nightfall is the first story, it's not the second one
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< 1503566297 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Did you play the Magnet game?
< 1503566310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnets
< 1503570624 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503571362 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look nearly as awful as CLOP.
< 1503571441 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning!
< 1503571869 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie, do you think that you could help me with those hacks you mentioned yesterday? I've tried changing the init.c to /dev/null like you said, but I don't see any difference in the output. Besides that, umlbox works perfectly for what I've seen.
< 1503572421 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you re-make umlbox-initrd.gz? 
< 1503572528 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503572729 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no. I did a make all and a make install, but considering that for some reason that file seems to not work with that, I'll make it individually again
< 1503572783 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503572797 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Oh, right, it's not that, it's because /dev isn't mounted by that time. Well, then the change will be a little more complicated: http://sprunge.us/hKaK
< 1503572827 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'll still need mknod /console for the command output to go to.)
< 1503572861 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, will any of the fixes you've made go to umlbox in the future?
< 1503572944 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with that a part of the messages went again
< 1503572962 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of sending a bitbucket pull request for at least the config file padding and the mudem compilation issue.
< 1503572986 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/t3ajv
< 1503573008 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked moony to test the file padding fix, but he never told me if it worked or if he tried it
< 1503573023 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use --debug instead of -v, you should get rid of lines 2-23.
< 1503573062 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, there are still some stuff left
< 1503573068 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by the way, I built 4.12.8, and had the same config file wrapping thing, but not the "output isn't shown" one.
< 1503573084 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be cursed then
< 1503573094 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's an arch issue?
< 1503573100 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that moony is using it too
< 1503573114 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's very odd.
< 1503573124 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/rhhep
< 1503573170 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's left is the kernel logs, and that "UMLBox starting" note. I've been trying to figure out the proper kernel command line parameter to put those somewhere else, so far without luck.
< 1503573218 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it occurs to me that an easier way could've been just swapping "con" and "con1" in the umlbox script.
< 1503573221 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hmcvunqcuunlcvel QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503573250 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that then
< 1503573290 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, go from   "con1=" + childStdin + ",fd:" + str(childStdout), "con=null," + stdoutws   to   "con1=null," + stdoutws, "con=" + childStdin + ",fd:" + str(childStdout)
< 1503573449 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we modified that yesterday while trying to get output
< 1503573500 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like "con1=" + childStdin + ",fd" + str(childStdout), to me
< 1503573511 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, ",fd:"
< 1503573554 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that the same as what I said? 
< 1503573579 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry. I was confused because I wasn't seeing con2 there, and con2 is between con1 and con=null
< 1503573617 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, con2 shouldn't really matter. It's the tty for umlbox-mudem, which isn't used unless you want to forward network ports.
< 1503573685 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the output is shorter, but it doesn't work
< 1503573711 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the order matter? I only renamed con to con1 and vice versa
< 1503573728 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope it doesn't.
< 1503573738 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll probably still have to keep using --debug to keep the stdout open, and you'll likely have to undo the "input ../console" and "output ../console" back to "input ../tty1" and "output ../tty1" to see the command output again.
< 1503573745 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/7eety
< 1503573763 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503573767 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry
< 1503573772 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used -v again due to being used to it
< 1503573853 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I changed it back
< 1503573857 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what I get
< 1503573871 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/amn2n
< 1503573873 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost there
< 1503573937 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The "UMLBox starting" line you could probably just comment out of init.c, and re-make.
< 1503574001 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503574043 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that works
< 1503574047 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only a few lines left
< 1503574201 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, unfortunately I'm not sure what to do about them. They're produced by printf calls from arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c, arch/um/os-Linux/mem.c and arch/um/kernel/um_arch.c.
< 1503574215 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you really feel like it, you can comment them out *there* and rebuild the kernel.
< 1503574281 0 :S1!~s1feha@p200300886B4214895A946BFFFED92B20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503574321 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more reasonable way would be to do what the umlbox script is *normally* doing, but that's exactly the thing that for some weird reason isn't working for you.
< 1503574333 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about things not working for me
< 1503574346 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like if the bot uses umlbox it doesn't work
< 1503574360 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/MgndDub.png
< 1503574388 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was working before we did any of the changes
< 1503574403 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some change must've broke it for the bot
< 1503574473 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was what the bot was trying to print before any of the changes, you can see that in the line 142 the command worked (the cwd was /horus) https://ghostbin.com/paste/5n6eo
< 1503574525 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503574575 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm a little out of ideas, seeing as we've spent the last half an hour explicitly trying to disable all debugging output. Also have to get to work again. But I guess you can try undoing things and seeing what happens.
< 1503574597 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp bell
< 1503574603 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not the most efficient thing, but I can try to filter the stuff with regex
< 1503574607 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dingas:The sound of a Baltic bell. It chimes like potatoes. \ obell:The obell is what we ring each time a new strip of the o webcomic is published. \ precious:precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ shachaf:Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He does
< 1503574609 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing all python side
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< 1503576828 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1503577198 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: NITRATE CHICKEN
< 1503577522 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:3907:4d7b:980f:2bb3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503578591 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503579837 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503580331 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503580449 0 :callum_!d4a10454@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.161.4.84 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503580588 0 :callum_!d4a10454@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.161.4.84 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503581350 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503582335 0 :S1!~s1feha@p200300886B4214895A946BFFFED92B20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503583230 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503583688 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503583960 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503584006 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503585538 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503585587 0 :zseri!5e86df4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.223.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503585634 0 :zseri!5e86df4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.223.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503586006 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503586465 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1503586556 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: a language whose programs are a binary tree
< 1503586579 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like iota?
< 1503586588 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1503586618 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any of those combinator languages
< 1503586752 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo
< 1503586882 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoOOOOOOOOOOoooooooou.
< 1503587544 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503588943 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcbdinq5hqv20b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503591170 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503592847 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503593097 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie since I believe that arch might be causing the issues, I've installed debian on my laptop/server. I'm trying to install umlbox on it, applying most of the fixes you gave me (I've got it to build properly), but I'm getting this when trying umlbox
< 1503593133 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ghostbin.com/paste/ep4uc
< 1503593554 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind fizzie, it was a typo I made when applying fixes. Sorry.
< 1503593591 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie in debian umlbox works properly, so the issue is caused by Arch most likely
< 1503593747 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a concept for a BF derivative which works on a queue.
< 1503593786 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that means it's already obviously TC... well, if I include looping instructions
< 1503593792 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will I? mw ha ha ha :P
< 1503594087 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503594165 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH! I think my ISP is causing routing problems again
< 1503594176 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :imodium
< 1503594182 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or DNS problems
< 1503594201 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs wob_jonas

< 1503594212 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503594225 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull.
< 1503594233 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ:
< 1503594239 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ExpensiveEmpty:
< 1503594248 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah
< 1503594265 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :CheapHalfFull:
< 1503594271 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNS problems apparently
< 1503594278 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :PricelessBottomlessAbyss:
< 1503594523 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: ah reading fail
< 1503594609 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's possible that the problem isn't on my side this time
< 1503594629 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that it isn't on the side of my ISP this time
< 1503594671 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isup.me is sometimes giving timeouts for me, which is scary
< 1503594708 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yello.
< 1503594757 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fizzie, if anything it seems like it breaks with virtualenvs
< 1503594824 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/qHm2eb0.png
< 1503595128 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't tell on which side the error is
< 1503595408 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503596493 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a thought.
< 1503596520 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are many brainfuck derivatives, but let's just be shocked, surprised, and eternally grateful that no languages have been based on ut yet.
< 1503596987 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503597028 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, where was fungot tested?
< 1503597028 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: hey, t-rex, i've a long road ahead of me, it would be flattering. they'd failed to deliver it to the king of all that i survey! i am a good friend, t-rex, but, uh,
< 1503597857 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[073D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52933&oldid=19990 5* 03Programmer5000 5* (-19) 10
< 1503598558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503598729 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503598876 0 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1503598939 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503598950 0 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503599656 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503599919 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503600498 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503600634 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503600755 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503601790 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fizzie, I feel like I should show you the result of all the help you've offered to me the last days
< 1503601854 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503601929 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/jCYgJNw.png
< 1503602181 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c8d3:28a1:d491:a0ab JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503603021 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c8d3:28a1:d491:a0ab QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503603930 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: values which can either be 3 or 2 - as in, "x == (3 or 2)" will return true whether x == 3 or x == 2
< 1503604147 0 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503604308 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would a dialect of BF in which the angled brackets must be balanced be TC?
< 1503604333 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. >< is valid, but >> isn't. >[<] wouldn't be valid, either, but >+<[>-<] would be (if a bit redundant :P)
< 1503604333 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced together with square brackets or separately?
< 1503604337 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if together, it's not TC
< 1503604350 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean.
< 1503604361 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is [>]< valid?
< 1503604366 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1503604372 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah.
< 1503604411 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if separately, then surely it's not a serious limitation, you just put a zillion > to the start of the program and a zillion < to the end of the program and that fixes all the balance
< 1503604445 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1503604453 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a proof that balancing them together isn't TC?
< 1503604469 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it yourself, I don't want to spoil it early
< 1503604471 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard
< 1503604504 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503604545 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you know that I'm an idiot?
< 1503604602 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you couldn't move the cell you were checking in a while loop.
< 1503604622 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that the number of cell spaces you can move would be limited to the number of >s.
< 1503604634 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then, with unbounded cells...
< 1503604940 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b001:8f1b:51b8:8d5 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503605022 0 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503605169 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503605569 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503605587 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503606564 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503606584 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503606960 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b001:8f1b:51b8:8d5 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503606966 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
< 1503606988 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you foooooools! SUNDAY IS THE LAST DAY OF THE WEEK, NOT THE FIRST
< 1503607025 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was the first day of the week, then the weekend would be friday and saturday, and you would work sunday to thurday!
< 1503607034 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Sunday is definitely the first day of the week.
< 1503607055 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, sunday is part of the weekend!
< 1503607070 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore the week begins on monay
< 1503607082 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2556:3c62:a960:fdfb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503607090 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weekend is a vague blob around the boundary between weeks
< 1503607111 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weekend id  the last two days of the week, saturday and sunday
< 1503607123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the week goes Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, ...
< 1503607132 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, as they're called in Hebrew, Firstday, Secondday, Thirdday, ...
< 1503607144 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hebrew is wrong then
< 1503607147 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In German, Wednesday is called "midweek"
< 1503607153 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's in the middle of the week.
< 1503607159 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the week starts on Sunday.
< 1503607173 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in germany, the week starts on monday
< 1503607193 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wednesday is the mid of the week, because saturday and sunday is the weekend :p
< 1503607204 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not called "midworkweek"
< 1503607206 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: numbers for week days is great, and several languages uses it for at least some of the days, but it's a bad choice because some languages use sunday=0 and some use sunday=1
< 1503607209 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you report to work each sunday in Israel?
< 1503607225 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard choice these days is sunday=0 or sunday=7, but we don't change the names based on them
< 1503607231 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the weekend in Israel is Friday-Saturday
< 1503607252 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, names originating from midweek are also used for both thursday and wednesday
< 1503607283 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It's not called "midworkweek"" => that wouldn't even make sense. the concept of only five workdays per week is much newer than the names in almost any languages
< 1503607322 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Right, so Wednesday being the middle of the Mon-Fri week doesn't make sense.
< 1503607410 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally like the classical alchemical association of days of week with the antique metals and panets. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals_of_antiquity#Symbolism for a table.
< 1503607535 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the problem with trying to decide whether the week starts with sunday or monday has the problem that not only the choice is very much culturally ingrained in many places and changing it would be confusing because people would misread calendars, but also that both choices have a religious motivation that people could be sensitive about.
< 1503607644 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the metal association is great, because most languages already have distinctive words for the seven classical metals, so it's easy to make up names for the days of week based on them
< 1503607686 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, can you believe religion is so popular?
< 1503607689 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so bizarre.
< 1503607781 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the religion doesn't even really matter. some of the religious culture remains even without the religion, i.e. in people who don't believe in the religion, and that can still matter here
< 1503607788 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tradition and stuff
< 1503607818 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some of the languages already use the classical planet association for naming some of the days
< 1503607881 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just one slight problem: apparently traditional Chinese medicine associates gold with Venus instead of with the Sun, which could be confusing
< 1503607933 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://kate.io/blog/2017/08/22/weird-python-integers/
< 1503607953 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slavic languages implicitly number Monday as day number one"
< 1503608199 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2556:3c62:a960:fdfb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503608252 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: woah
< 1503608277 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave me alone
< 1503608492 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, wait. Was that "leave me alone" because my message didn't have enough information in it, or just because you hold a grudge? I'm not trying to be rude, I sincerely want to know because I just want to be friends.
< 1503608547 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Granted that "<shachaf18> It's so bizarre." only has slightly more information in it, but that's besides the point.)
< 1503608823 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I hold a grudge.
< 1503608924 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to be your friend, I want you to leave me alone. You can't expect everything you say to be taken independently of everything else.
< 1503609029 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :itc: awkward people having awkward conversations.
< 1503609191 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I even do to you?
< 1503609560 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I am also confused
< 1503609581 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had always thought that shachaf hated me for a reason...
< 1503609583 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:3907:4d7b:980f:2bb3 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503609604 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered on how I could improve on that, hopefully becoming a better person myself... but now I'm just... speechless.
< 1503609616 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not literally speechless, I can still type words here, but you know what I mean.
< 1503609671 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :A while back I decided that I would try to increase the length of every message I sent here - I thought the reason shachaf hated me was because they sore what I was typing as spammish, so I resolved to attempt to reduce that.
< 1503609700 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... is it even worth trying anymore?
< 1503609704 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that doesn't seem strange to me, because ruby integers work similarly, except that there every integer up to like 2**30 or 2**62 (depending on pointer size) is a small integer. I think even some schemes work like that too, with the eq? operator.
< 1503609777 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: But those aren't heap objects that can be mutated, are they?
< 1503609797 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, those aren't
< 1503609863 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, in ruby, true and false and nil are also handled specially as not pointing to real objects, even though there doesn't seem to be a reason for that. I think it would be easier to handle them as singleton statically allocated objects.
< 1503609870 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... but why are integers heap objects anyway? would it not be faster to keep them mutable?
< 1503609887 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, do whatever you want.
< 1503609897 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: large integers have to be heap objects because they're bignums and can't be stored in a word
< 1503609916 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but why would small integers be heap objects
< 1503609937 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, all of this is about ruby 1.8, there's been internals changes since then that I didn't follow much
< 1503609940 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there an specific address whre the number 7 is stored
< 1503609967 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the way it stores code has been replaced by some much more insane mechanism, and I don't understand why. apparently they bought into the "bytecode" buzzword or something.
< 1503609990 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god did they roll their own bytecode
< 1503610003 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: for sparing memory and cache. there are often many copies of the number 7 alive, and creating a new object for it every time would be wasteful
< 1503610009 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python that is
< 1503610021 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby small integers aren't pointing to any object
< 1503610029 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: but all teh pointers to 7 are 64 bits anyway
< 1503610070 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm unlesss
< 1503610076 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby, the objects are either pointers (16-aligned) to a real object, or small values for a few special objects like nil, false, true, and a few more, or odd numbers for representing a small integer, or numbers that are IIRC 15 mod 16 for symbol objects
< 1503610099 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: sure, the pointers themselves are, but you don't need separate copies of what it points to
< 1503610131 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the pointers themselves that get smaller, but the pointed objects. those still take up memory and cache and malloc time
< 1503610134 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly cache
< 1503610151 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why is 7 a pointed-to object?
< 1503610166 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 should be stored directly not pointed somewhere
< 1503610191 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: because this way you need fewer conditionals when you dereference an object pointer
< 1503610210 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to check for ten special cases before dereferencing it like ruby does
< 1503610229 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually it has to check only for two conditions, but still)
< 1503610241 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(small values and 16-bit alignment)
< 1503610245 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but you end up checking its type after dereferencing anyway....
< 1503610258 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503610275 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you end up checking its methods and class and all sorts of stuff like that, not always the one "type" thing
< 1503610289 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an OO language
< 1503610291 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all objects are similar
< 1503610315 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't just 30 differently typed objects all with unrelated behavior like in scheme
< 1503610330 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby and python there's a lot of things common in all or almost all objects, includign integers
< 1503610336 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some objects have direct support at CPU level for their operations 
< 1503610336 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all objects have a class and methods
< 1503610346 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but not all operations are like that
< 1503610359 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to do the check for all non-integer objects too
< 1503610380 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of code that rarely manipulates integers, but it would have to pay for the integer check every time it accesses any object
< 1503610391 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since almost any object could just happen to be an integer
< 1503610422 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby works like that, it has to check for integers/symbols and for special low-address objects all the time, even if you never use those objects
< 1503610432 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though never using the low address objects is very unlikely)
< 1503610446 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some of them are used a lot)
< 1503610451 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even internally)
< 1503610488 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of what a branch predictor does could realistically be replaced with a tracing JIT?
< 1503610527 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is, ruby 1.8 doesn't care that much about heavy performance optimizations anyway
< 1503610555 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want performance, it's up to the programmer to identify the inner loops and optimize them, possibly by calling to non-ruby code
< 1503610569 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still manages to be quite a fast language without such tricks
< 1503610579 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually faster than perl 5, despite its reputation that it's slow
< 1503610585 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 5 is horrible
< 1503610595 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perl 5 is hard to change because
< 1503610606 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... I'm now wondering where C, compiled with tcc -run, ends up in the set of interpreted languages
< 1503610620 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has published its bad API so early that there's too much code using it and all the stupid internal details are fixed now
< 1503610650 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: it always depends on what kind of code you're running
< 1503610682 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how much optimization you're willing to do when writing the code
< 1503610695 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people who optimize perl5 code, even code that would be easier to write in C
< 1503611176 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for esoteric reasons)
< 1503611567 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATMunn: hi.
< 1503611572 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi
< 1503611604 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were referring to something recent
< 1503611633 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was recent, but don't mention it here
< 1503611831 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503611844 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it
< 1503611851 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wont mention tho as you said
< 1503612288 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52934&oldid=46163 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+169) 10
< 1503612545 0 :propumpkin!?@? NICK :contrapumpkin
< 1503613084 0 :zseri!5e86df4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.223.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503613926 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503615158 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503615212 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503615261 0 :ATMunn!?@? NICK :wall
< 1503615268 0 :wall!?@? NICK :ATMunn
< 1503615301 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcbdinq5hqv20b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1503616512 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should introduce a new element system because I'm not satisfied with either the Aristotelean nor the classical chinese system. My five elements would be stone, metal, plastic, cellulose, and protein.
< 1503616655 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the concept of a two-level system where things could become their "oxidized" forms
< 1503616667 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say dirt, water and air -> ash, salt and smoke
< 1503616680 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should shut up now before the grudge for no reason kicks in
< 1503616709 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone encompasses all mineral, gemstone, lime, sand, clay, concrete, plaster, and also all glass, pearl, seashell. Metal encompasses all the metals and semi-metals like aluminum. Plastic has all polymers including rubber, vinyl, pet. Cellulose includes wood and cotton and linen. Protein includes wool, horn, unicorn horn, nails.
< 1503616741 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liquids and gases and foodstuff would be outside the element system.
< 1503616764 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the protein element only includes the non-edible forms like I listed above.
< 1503616768 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is aluminum a semi-metal? Is aluminium a full metal?
< 1503616772 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically those are edible, but still)
< 1503616790 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's a question of terminology. It's a metal in this elemental system.
< 1503616810 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some chemical terminology counts it as a semi-metal.
< 1503616979 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a cyclic dominance order between these. Obviously because of rock-paper-scissors, stone beats metal, metal beats cellulose, and cellulose beats stone.
< 1503617059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503617188 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503617321 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are lots of game elemental systems, but their goal isn't classifying solids or materials, but classifying damage types. Nethack has a strange pot-pourri, where the elements include fire, cold, poison, shock (lightning or electricity), magic, draining, and sleep.
< 1503617357 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is an element? :P
< 1503617364 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503617377 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are arrows dealing sleep damage too
< 1503617387 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in nethack, but in other fiction
< 1503617393 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this came up recently
< 1503617399 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION activates his sleep magic

< 1503617419 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, magic is different. sleep isn't magic.
< 1503617435 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yea
< 1503617446 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are magic arrows or magic bullets too
< 1503617590 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503617600 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic missile is always magical, force damage counts as magical in some games, and the magic bullets in Der Freischütz probably deal magic damage too
< 1503617671 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think of magic as manipulating the elements, not as an element itself
< 1503617696 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: element in this sense is a damage type
< 1503617702 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1503617705 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fire, cold, lighting, etc
< 1503617716 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but magic isn't among those in all such systems
< 1503617725 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some game, magic vs nonmagic is a separate dimension from the element type
< 1503617781 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case there's normal fire and magical fire, normal bludgeoning and magical force, normal cold weather and magical cold that freezes you from inside no matter what clothing you wera
< 1503617789 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1503617801 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also ordinary sleep and magical sleep
< 1503617818 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack isn't like that
< 1503617877 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some game I forget the name of they had just blunt, sharp, and fire damage
< 1503617915 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :blunt, sharp and fire makes sense
< 1503617930 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1503617941 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a startegy game
< 1503617950 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :startegy
< 1503617994 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, M:tG doesn't have a proper elemental system, there's no fire damage or cold damage or blunt or edged or pierce weapons,
< 1503618027 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything that tries to distingiush damage has to care about (1) properties of the damage source, esp zone and color and type, (2) combat damage vs noncombat damage, and (3) properties of the damage target, esp player vs creature, and (4) amount of damage (damage comes in discrete damage events that can have any nonnegative integer amount)
< 1503618135 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a few abilities of the source automatically modify the effect of the damage, these are lifelink, deathtouch, infect, wither.
< 1503618219 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those apply to all damage dealt by the source, no matter why
< 1503618511 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503618528 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future, I'll have to find a random person and start holding a grudge against them for no reason
< 1503618582 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Age of Empires 3, there is "melee", "range" and "seige" attack
< 1503618590 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hold a grudge against you for the reasons you talked about, among others
< 1503618622 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: wait, only those? doesn't it have more?
< 1503618631 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you expect that you can be annoying for months and have each subsequent thing you say considered independently of everything before it.
< 1503618717 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yeah, it doesn't distinguish between hack, pierce, and crush damage the way age of mythology does
< 1503618753 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You mean when I'm trying my very hardest not to be annoying just so that you don't completely hate me anymore?
< 1503618782 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I can be annoying, I readily admit that and try to stop it. But when I'm trying to stop it, I don't expect people to ignore that.
< 1503618795 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't completely hate you.
< 1503618815 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how much hate do you feel?
< 1503618823 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hate.
< 1503618832 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have a grudge against me?
< 1503618843 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was your word, but sure.
< 1503618875 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: just drop it. if shachaf doesn't want to listen to you, just ignore that. it's not like he got you banned from the channel or harasses you or any other such harm
< 1503618894 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: No, because I want to be friends with people. What's wrong with trying to mend fences?
< 1503618909 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you hold a grudge, doesn't that imply some level of hate?
< 1503619132 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Your friend making strategy sucks. )
< 1503619215 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just leave. I always seem to be worthless where-ever I go, and every time I try to change that, it fails. Why am I still alive, again?
< 1503619217 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1503619265 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1503619328 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rdococ is worthless, but I don't enjoy interacting with them.
< 1503619439 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I do?
< 1503620407 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sausage
< 1503620408 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sausage? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503620606 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Sausage is the ground remains of a pig after the valuable parts (meat, liver) and the part that will form sausage skin are removed.
< 1503620609 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'sausage': Sausage is the ground remains of a pig after the valuable parts (meat, liver) and the part that will form sausage skin are removed.
< 1503621143 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503621965 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503622094 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503622856 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503623228 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503623278 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503623331 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503623376 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503623532 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503623857 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503624042 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503624507 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503624532 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503624611 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Did you play the Magnet game? <-- i'm on Pearl now (slowly cycling alphabetically)
< 1503624844 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game is that?
< 1503626338 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503626409 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503626413 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud
< 1503626413 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 22h 21m 5s ago: to /quit CHICKEN OF THE WOODS
< 1503626415 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:vwwwl//Vwwwls wrw w swgn wf wnswffwcwwnt wwsdwm. \ precession//Precession is the opposite of succession. It is the joy of children and the curse of first year physics students. \ blsqbot//blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'. \ wegian//A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland)
< 1503626428 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503626429 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from. \ or//Or is an Intercal unary operator.
< 1503626705 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all my days I have never had the chance to mess with ruby. looks like I get to now.
< 1503626732 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: uh why?
< 1503626740 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: work.
< 1503626783 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imellode! what's your opinion on ruby so far?
< 1503626800 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :have never touched it before. looks nice. going to be pairing it with Sinatra.
< 1503626805 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helløœirjan, wobonsoir_jonas.
< 1503626820 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinatra is that ultra-lightweight Web framework?
< 1503626826 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup!
< 1503626900 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice!
< 1503626931 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: from tatham's puzzle collection
< 1503626932 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503626944 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were previously working with Python and Flask, but we figured we'd have a go at a similar framework in a similar language to compare the two.
< 1503626985 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503627032 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heboilloy
< 1503627075 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: then you should try Java and Spark!
< 1503627094 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in the hell did that take 100% of my CPU.
< 1503627106 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just... documentation. o_o
< 1503627108 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, the magnets i play. no idea if that's what shachaf was referring to.
< 1503627125 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: everything is normal and sane.
< 1503627128 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :docpumentation.
< 1503627137 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to confuse.
< 1503627151 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION *THWACKS* oerjan. 0.59 FP.

< 1503627154 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: java and sane.. two words I haven't seen together in a long time. :P
< 1503627172 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expecte that.
< 1503627174 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+d
< 1503627193 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write sane Java any time. it even comes with lambdas*!
< 1503627202 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does python and ruby. :P
< 1503627227 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry. I teach so I'll be doing plenty of java on the 18th.
< 1503627442 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah that's even worse
< 1503627456 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will you be teaching with java?
< 1503627500 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a transfer course to a state university.
< 1503627503 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :design patterns, SOLID principles, unit tests...
< 1503627511 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :introductory java.
< 1503627526 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. that's EVEN worse.
< 1503627531 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503627540 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. they walk away with some intuition.
< 1503627563 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you sneakily teach good stuff, not only the curriculum?
< 1503627564 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1503627580 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. that's kind of my thing. :P
< 1503627597 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when are you going to play The Witness hth
< 1503627687 0 :boily_!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503627755 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably never.
< 1503627793 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503627835 0 :boily_!?@? NICK :boily
< 1503628063 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think of it as a tatham puzzle game hth
< 1503628412 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: WOOD CHICKEN
< 1503628789 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:JWinslow2314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52935&oldid=37537 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (-283) 10Replaced content with "Heya."
< 1503630042 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503630489 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell rdococ  Even then, with unbounded cells... <-- see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function#Reduction_to_3-cell_brainfuck
< 1503630489 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503630681 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503630697 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell rdococ That balances the loops, for the top I guess you need an extra << at the end.
< 1503630697 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503631445 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503631489 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503631730 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503631747 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may take a while for him to read that
< 1503631888 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@bowserinator.tk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503631911 0 :Bowserinator!?@? NICK :Guest35524
< 1503632375 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-80-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503633550 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503633793 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.170 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503633862 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503634827 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503636670 0 :Guest35524!?@? NICK :Bowserinator
< 1503636671 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@bowserinator.tk QUIT :Changing host
< 1503636671 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503637018 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-80-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503637122 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503638646 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. I uh. I see why people like ruby. o_o
< 1503638797 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503639845 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503640835 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503641156 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503642167 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503642321 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503643325 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is like 150% syntax sugar
< 1503643592 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll happily rot my fingers off with it.
< 1503644763 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1503645447 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503647999 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503650020 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503650341 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning
< 1503650353 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you here?
< 1503650927 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503651211 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503651229 0 :kurolox!~kurolox@236.red-176-83-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503651243 0 :kurolox!~kurolox@236.red-176-83-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I had to change the computer
< 1503651255 0 :kurolox!~kurolox@236.red-176-83-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you here, fizzie?
< 1503651900 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503652141 0 :kurolox!~kurolox@236.red-176-83-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503653577 0 :stalker!bcd8fa99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.216.250.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503653588 0 :stalker!bcd8fa99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.216.250.153 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503654055 0 :silly`!~silly@ip98-178-171-213.tu.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503654192 0 :silly`!~silly@ip98-178-171-213.tu.ok.cox.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503654232 0 :silly`!~silly@ip98-178-171-213.tu.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503654243 0 :silly`!~silly@ip98-178-171-213.tu.ok.cox.net PART #esoteric :
< 1503655927 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503656123 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503656178 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503656304 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503661750 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503661991 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503661998 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503666001 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:696a:f3e9:4ac7:a6c7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503666845 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9dd9:ac17:1bde:28d8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503667945 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503667965 0 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667966 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667966 0 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667966 0 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667966 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667966 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1503667978 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503667978 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503667980 0 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503667986 0 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503668007 0 :shikhin!shikhin@heddw.ch JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503668029 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so this might not be the right channel, but have you ever noticed how fucking rare it is for anyone to copyright license anything in such a way that it's free to distribute only in the future, not right now?
< 1503668031 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :Guest68623
< 1503668065 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people complain about how copyright terms are too long and how people almost always get the most income from copyright on anything in the first few years
< 1503668122 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet everybody either simply releases something under a free license right now, or (rarely) releases something they did in the past under a free license as an afterthought, or never releases the work under a free license.
< 1503668176 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only ever seen ONE case when someone declared that a work will be public domain in the future but isn't now, and in that case it was already released under a no-derivatives free license and the future time was their death, not just a few years later
< 1503668182 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so strange
< 1503668189 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some legal difficulty in a timed release?
< 1503668210 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a psychological difficulty?
< 1503668346 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in cases of "we want to retain copyright for now but will release it freely later", it's usually accomplished by just keeping it proprietary until the point where it'll be released freely
< 1503668360 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then licensing it under a free-immediately license at that point
< 1503668383 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more flexible in that the copyright holder doesn't have to commit to a specific date or time ahead-of-time
< 1503668437 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess licensing it under a "these terms apply after $date" condition doesn't really come to mind to people, and also since it hasn't really been done much I guess there's little in way of legal precedent too?
< 1503668468 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to just releasing it under MIT or GPL or whatever at that future date instead
< 1503668582 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: it might be more flexible for a copyright holder but less convenient for everyone else
< 1503668607 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I know something will be released from copyright later, I can already start working on derivative versions that I'll release at that time
< 1503668638 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes (say for software that has an immediate use) I might even buy that thing now more (unlike in the case of a fiction book, when I might just wait)
< 1503668646 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but since it's up to the copyright holder to license it, I guess the flexibility for the copyright holder trumps that of others :p
< 1503668668 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this already happens for expiring copyrights (for books of course, there's no software with an expired copyright in most places of the world yet)
< 1503668673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1503668728 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reminds me a bit of how frictional games said they'd release the source code to Penumbra if the Humble Indie Bundle (the first one) exceeded some value in payment
< 1503668735 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and did so once it did)
< 1503668743 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the topic of timed releases in general
< 1503668753 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I hadn't heard of that
< 1503668774 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically they sell a public license in a mass way
< 1503669022 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much
< 1503669033 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you got the binary form of the game either way
< 1503669045 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assets weren't included in the source release
< 1503669299 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by assets?
< 1503669485 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :They released the source code under a permissive license (I think MIT or something) after they met that criteria in purchases, but that doesn't cover art, music, models, maps, etc
< 1503669492 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather just the code/engine itself
< 1503669518 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503669964 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503670220 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503670833 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503671094 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9dd9:ac17:1bde:28d8 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503671777 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:696a:f3e9:4ac7:a6c7 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1503674262 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9020:28e7:10ab:9dd5 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503674318 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503674515 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.230 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503678049 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503679024 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503679266 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503679285 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:9020:28e7:10ab:9dd5 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503680017 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503680041 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503680930 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503684409 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503684687 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503684872 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503684926 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that programming language where program source code was in the form of everyday physical objects stacked into various towers, and so an interpreter is be very hard to write because it would need lots of recognition capabilities?
< 1503685015 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure, but that sounds really cool
< 1503685498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503686096 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503686196 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503688456 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503690159 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1503691185 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503691721 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503691970 0 :first_user!~first_use@217.72.212.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503691980 0 :first_user!~first_use@217.72.212.56 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503692934 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503695048 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503695465 0 :Guest68623!?@? NICK :shikhin
< 1503695494 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :Guest12038
< 1503695523 0 :Guest12038!?@? NICK :shikhin_
< 1503695530 0 :shikhin_!shikhin@heddw.ch QUIT :Changing host
< 1503695530 0 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503695543 0 :shikhin_!?@? NICK :shikhin
< 1503696302 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503697957 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503698541 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahaha! This is one of those cases when I can laugh at the more developed countries for thinking they are so cool when here in Hungary we've invented the same thing ages ago.
< 1503698583 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last time I felt this was in 2012, when London announced that you can now use mobile phones in their tube network, while we've had mobile coverage in the metro lines for years by that time.
< 1503698622 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time the Americans think they are cool for traveling to view a total solar eclipse, when we've already organized a total solar eclipse in 1999 with similar great tourist hype. I've seen it myself.
< 1503698734 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU HIPCHAT YOU INCOMPETENTLY DESIGNED SHITBOX
< 1503698746 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch what fucking happens if you copypaste a string from hipchat
< 1503698752 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*       soft  memlock   unlimited
< 1503698779 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOSE ARE NOT THE RIGHT KIND OF SPACES
< 1503698812 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503698875 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that double-utf-8?
< 1503698967 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're U+2002 EN SPACE
< 1503698997 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: right, but shown as double-utf-8
< 1503699018 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't... think so?
< 1503699043 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a with hat in the line you pasted here
< 1503699066 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get when you take an en-space encoded as utf-8 and show it as cp1252 or similar instead
< 1503699132 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not even well-formed utf-8? FUCK
< 1503699160 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*       soft  memlock   unlimited
< 1503699199 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIPCHAT IS FUCKING SHIT
< 1503699453 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what? it's probably well-formed utf-8 when they send it to you, they just don't tell you it's utf-8. that, or they already double-utf-8 encode it in their servers, but that's unlikely.
< 1503699463 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it got messed up when you pasted it here or something
< 1503699500 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno really
< 1503701187 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :weechat or die.
< 1503701262 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503701693 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503701797 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi!
< 1503703643 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503704202 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503705181 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503705440 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503705928 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503706074 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503709179 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503709702 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503710805 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503712586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503714217 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas https://esolangs.org/wiki/Efghij
< 1503714217 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503716289 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503719335 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503720343 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503723834 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503723934 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503725109 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com
< 1503727561 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503728591 0 :S1!~s1feha@p200300886B421421249958D5D3F07090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503730974 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Tri14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52936 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+177) 10Created page with "Has this been implemented? I might make an interpreter for my own personal use if not. ~~~~"
< 1503731414 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas You still can't use mobile phones in the London Underground. It will "start getting" coverage "by 2019". And yes, Finland has had that as well as long as I remember.
< 1503731414 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503731847 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas http://tech.newstatesman.com/news/4g-tube-mobile-coverage-underground
< 1503731847 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503731898 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently there's wifi *at stations*, which is almost but not quite useless.
< 1503733657 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503734230 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it at stations is important for tracking people; inside the train cars, not so much :P
< 1503735330 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even uses the internet anymore
< 1503735341 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do actual work, I very rarely need it
< 1503735846 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503737551 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH
< 1503738876 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503740508 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503741466 0 :S1!~s1feha@p200300886B421421249958D5D3F07090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503741484 0 :S1!~s1feha@p200300886B421421249958D5D3F07090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503741487 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503741507 0 :S1!?@? NICK :Guest3913
< 1503742051 0 :Guest3913!~s1feha@p200300886B421421249958D5D3F07090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1503744245 0 :s1feha__!~s1feha@p200300886B42144275DACFA014D9A71F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503744430 0 :Guest3913!~s1feha@p200300886B421421249958D5D3F07090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1503744715 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1503745604 0 :s1feha__!~s1feha@p200300886B42144275DACFA014D9A71F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1503748872 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503749071 0 :s1feha__!~s1feha@p200300886B42144275DACFA014D9A71F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1503749707 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503750665 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:ac96:e97b:1505:44ff JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503757297 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503757339 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503758152 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503759818 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503760447 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503760462 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:cut elimination//The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator. \ flu shot//Flu shots are usually available from some time in the first half of November. \ monomorphism//A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category. \ moo//Moo is the sou
< 1503760531 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503760532 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:nd made by a cow as it freezes. \ treant//Treants are genericized ents for intellectual property reasons.
< 1503760567 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`howg flu shot
< 1503760576 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ slwd flu shot//s/$/./;s/f/F/ \  slashlearn flu shot/flu shots are usually available from some time in the first half of November
< 1503760608 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that October and I'm in.
< 1503761114 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( boily is getting shot in October? )
< 1503762092 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503762122 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :winter comes early in these here parts.
< 1503762141 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, getting shot before it gets mainstream is important.
< 1503762768 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503763025 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503763971 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503764005 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I forgot to kill myself.
< 1503764095 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm here again to be a lonely, stupid idiot.
< 1503764550 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdochellidioc!
< 1503764564 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :har.
< 1503764567 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503764699 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of agree... the best place to be lonely is a crowd of people
< 1503764749 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, you still end up lonely if you're a stupid idiot.
< 1503764793 0 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c00d:bbf8:1f6f:8bc9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503764811 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like it even matters. I'm going back to hell soon anyway.
< 1503764825 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or worse, Wisconsin?
< 1503764851 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no. The hell I go to is much worse than Wisconsin. In fact, it's worse than Malbolge.
< 1503765022 0 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:ac96:e97b:1505:44ff QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1503765040 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bethany: Were they sent to Hell? / Metatron: Worse. Wisconsin. For the entire span of human history.)
< 1503765045 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SMALL CHICKEN
< 1503765189 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Wisconsin is worse than Malbolge.
< 1503766167 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503766189 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503767135 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503767475 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503767610 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503768261 0 :nc_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-25-27.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503768271 0 :nc_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-25-27.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1094
< 1503768272 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1094: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1503768358 0 :nc_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-25-27.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503768405 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should die.
< 1503768421 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a poor plan
< 1503768421 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a stupid fucking idiot. I'm always just that annoying nuisance who keeps making shitty esolangs.
< 1503768427 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not dead yet? Kill me.
< 1503768762 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you grow up.
< 1503768785 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody fucking cares. stop beating yourself up publically for attention.
< 1503768797 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :grow a fucking spine and get over yourself.
< 1503768855 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mood swings are a product of either an adolescent mind or some desperate need for validation by people. either way, go jack off in a corner. nobody's going to give you that, so you might as well give it to yourself.
< 1503768915 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, that's not ok
< 1503768920 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all calm down
< 1503768946 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: honestly, he needs tough love. he's been saying the same thing over and over and over.
< 1503768956 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not tough love
< 1503768960 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is tough love.
< 1503768996 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1503769019 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I've been meaning to try to actually kill myself, so people will realize it's not a show "for attention".
< 1503769026 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fucking do it.
< 1503769055 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a cry for help, seek therapy. your constant moaning is not theraputic.
< 1503769057 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I wonder: "why would anyone hate someone for wanting attention? doesn't everyone want attention?"
< 1503769087 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of dumb, when you think about it. If someone simply wants some TLC (not your shitty crap you call "tough love"), then GIVE SOME FOR ONCE YOU JERK!
< 1503769107 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. because you've been saying that you're some kind of horrible piece of shit for about a week now in here.
< 1503769120 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically every time I tab over you're expecting some kind of validating "oh no it's okay" response.
< 1503769128 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect any response.
< 1503769135 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why the fuck do you say it in here?
< 1503769144 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :go blog about it.
< 1503769145 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want to warn people.
< 1503769179 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :about _what_?
< 1503769205 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :your own self harm? are you going to hold a knife to your throat and yell at people on IRC?
< 1503769221 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need help. professional help.
< 1503769227 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1503769244 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503769249 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus. I hate doing that.
< 1503769292 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only so many times you can say "oh no you're great just do your own thing" before it becomes obvious he's begging.
< 1503769596 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503769618 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1503769693 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the thing you linked to seems to only say the underground is planned to get 4G mobile coverage by 2019. That sounds like it already has slower coverage.
< 1503770336 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503773663 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503774014 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503774036 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503774216 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@185.159.156.6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503774341 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503774517 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503774566 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503774609 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi boily.
< 1503774719 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in D&D if you find cursed loot of gold and it weighs less than 3 pounds, then the cost of the gold isn't enough to pay for the spell to remove the curse.
< 1503774726 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it weighs at least 3 pounds, then any number of different curses aren't enough to protect the loot, because a single casting of the Remove Curse spell is enough to remove all curses.
< 1503774739 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This explains why the Holy Crown of Hungary is guarded so much. Even without the other associated relics, the crown alone contains more than three pounds of gold, so although it's almost certainly cursed now, a thief would just have to take it to a non-lawful temple to get it uncursed and has value remaining.
< 1503774763 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thank you! that's the one
< 1503774787 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to 'cut the knot' and gives wob_jonas 8 pounds of fool's gold instead.

< 1503774796 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of f/of cursed f/
< 1503774799 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503775091 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdochelloc.
< 1503775094 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellob_jonas.
< 1503775101 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily
< 1503775309 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503775488 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp
< 1503775499 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION (blah@blah/blah) has joined

< 1503775609 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Do you know what is supposed to happen on MIX if trying to access memory that a card is partially loaded?
< 1503775708 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: presumably on an older machine, you'd read the old value of the cell or the new value, depending on whether it's happened to be read yet, probably at word granularity, but this isn't guaranteed for future compatibility.
< 1503775714 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're asking this for golfing code on cards?
< 1503775719 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrap code especially?
< 1503775777 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although it could also help to speed up some other programs in some cases maybe
< 1503775816 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in general it's undefined behavior and you shouldn't do that, and you can recover from it only by resetting the machine and then rewriting the memory cells or something.
< 1503775860 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just read unknown data in the worse case?
< 1503775891 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a decimal machine where bytes are implemented as eight bcd-coded bits? I don't think so
< 1503775906 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it does read unknown data
< 1503775909 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who the heck knows
< 1503775937 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the memory is probably not accessed at the same time by the cpu and the IO device, in each cycle only one of them accesses each memory chip,
< 1503775961 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they read and write whole words with valid values provided the cards only have recognizable characters
< 1503775984 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see what the book actually says, though I don't think it goes into details
< 1503776077 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so a program must not refer to the information in memory until then." -- not much there
< 1503776124 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Doesn't this vary by exchange rate?
< 1503776179 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 1.4.4. "but the ensuing program must not refer to these memory cells until later."
< 1503776185 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503776219 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but then it does not say what things are allowed to happen if the program refers to it anyways.
< 1503776235 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think so. Gold is a base currency, all the money in D&D is based on gold, platinum, silver and copper, and they somehow have a fixed price compared to each other.
< 1503776246 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there might be modifiers on the price of the spell of course.
< 1503776290 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it doesn't seem to say. you'll have to refer to the manual of your specific MIX machine and its IO devices.
< 1503776335 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503776423 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503776551 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The money in D&D at least in 3.5 edition is weighs 1/50 pound I think, and is always decimal, although it weight more than the GURPS money which is 1/240 pound (I think the book says 1/250 pound, but I think that is a typographical error and it is supposed to say 1/240 pound). I think also some older version of AD&D has electrum money too, not only copper, silver, gold, and platinum.
< 1503776564 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern computers like recent unix machines or MMIX are different of course, they have memory protection and the OS uses it to limit privilage of user-space processes, so it has to guarantee that user-space programs can't do anything that breaks the protection, which means you read valid data even from areas that are currently inputting in the backg
< 1503776564 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruond
< 1503776592 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, a gold piece weighs 1/50 pound, and a remove curse spell costs 150 gold pieces
< 1503776621 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrum money => isn't that D&D 5 actually?
< 1503776665 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I mean the Holy Crown of Hungary.
< 1503776670 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in D&D 5 also; I have not read it
< 1503776679 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But AD&D also has electrum money
< 1503776698 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503776819 0 :Antoxyde__!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503776873 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! the D&D tables say that a musical instrument weighs 3 pounds. that explains why there are no falling piano traps.
< 1503776894 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, I know the default environment is like medieval so they didn't have pianos yet)
< 1503777002 0 :Antoxyde_!~Antoxyde@185.159.156.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503777166 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It does not have slower coverage.
< 1503777211 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, "Passengers on the London Underground will be able to make calls, send texts and browse the web from 2019" more or less implies they can't do those things now.
< 1503777262 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what about the crown? the crown is made of mostly gold. there's some extra stuff on it like gemstones and icons, but those take only a minority of the weight.
< 1503777291 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. but then what was the news all talking about at the preparations for the 2012 olympics?
< 1503777322 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They added the wifi on the stations for that, I believe.
< 1503777398 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they do that? who even had wifi devices in 2012?
< 1503777403 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable ones that is
< 1503777416 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/wifi-at-tube-stations-for-olympics-7570359.html "Tube passengers will have access to free WiFi during the Olympic Games. Platforms at 80 stations will have wireless coverage after Transport for London appointed Virgin Media to provide the service."
< 1503777467 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 2012, Apple reported its best quarterly earnings ever, with 53% of its revenue coming from the sale of 37 million iPhones --" at least those guys did.
< 1503777480 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503777554 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Himoo.
< 1503777592 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to search for news back then (which is made more difficult by the fact that the search feature of MTI doesn't have a fucking stemmer, aren't we in the 21st century now, guys?)
< 1503777632 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I've found some news that says the tube was very overcrowded during the olympics, so much that the traffic company asked people to work at home if possible (I'm not making this up)
< 1503777733 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, I remember when tram 6 was so overcrowded every morning in the rush hour. those were the years. these days we have it easy.
< 1503778079 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, a gallon of beer weighs 8 times as much but costs 50 times as much as a mug of beer. this is low even for D&D item tables.
< 1503778114 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I mean that in Hungary you probably pay in HUF instead of gold.
< 1503778147 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, not in the medieval times that those D&D price tables are trying to represent
< 1503778148 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless spells are still priced by their D&D values in terms of gold by weight.
< 1503778158 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just sell the gold for money fine
< 1503778175 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are priced in D&D in terms of gold pieces
< 1503778231 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gold pieces are not fiat currency, they're boullion or whatever the economists call those coins where the metal content itself gives the value, that's why gold pieces are accepted almost everywhere around the world, not only in one region
< 1503778236 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever get the feeling that you're is in an adamantium prison, unable to break out, and that you're slowly turning insane? I get that feeling often.
< 1503778294 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a soup-based currency.
< 1503778313 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you're is/you're/
< 1503778413 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: no. I have fear of closed spaces and very rarely go to rooms where I can't break out from. I was in a job interview once and the strongest reason why the place made negative impression on me is that workers used a swipe card or magnetic card or something to exit the door from the company's area to the area with toilets.
< 1503778421 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the D&D money heavier than a silver penny?
< 1503778474 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503778482 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep the keys in the door keyhole whenever I'm inside, half pulled out so it can also be opened from the outside with keys, and I have a spare set of door keys in a drawer.
< 1503778521 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: exactly because it's not just a token, the metal itself has to give it the value. it has to be heavy. the D&D 3.5 version probably is too heavy, but still.
< 1503778565 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it may be too heavy it seems
< 1503778576 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even avoid elevators most of the time, though only part of the reason is fear of closed spaces. (I still sometimes use an elevator in lots of circumstances, such as when carrying heavy items.)
< 1503778738 0 :TieSoul__!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503778853 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds relatively heavenly.
< 1503778853 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503778904 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not at the level of Mowgli who is unwilling to sleep indoors
< 1503778915 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a city person, I like being indoors
< 1503778954 0 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:c00d:bbf8:1f6f:8bc9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503780111 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503780464 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: NECKTIE CHICKEN
< 1503780995 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503781179 0 :wob_jonas!b03f191b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.27 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503781539 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503782127 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503782556 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone remember the name of that thing that's like you see something and then it's suddenly everywhere
< 1503782579 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like someone shows you something and you're like "that's cool" and then the next day someone else entirely shows you the same thing
< 1503782598 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :something going viral? memes?
< 1503782603 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really
< 1503782626 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :deja vu?
< 1503782641 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, not really
< 1503782646 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 128/(-1) :: Int8
< 1503782648 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error:
< 1503782648 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     • No instance for (Fractional Int8) arising from a use of ‘/’
< 1503782648 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     • In the expression: 128 / (- 1) :: Int8
< 1503782656 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 128 `div` (-1) :: Int8
< 1503782658 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: arithmetic overflow
< 1503782707 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I love the fact that it's the division it complains about here, not the fact that 128 becomes -128. )
< 1503783391 0 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:25a7:f960:b539:20e8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503783616 0 :TieSoul__!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503783754 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503783862 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503784914 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Synchronicity? 
< 1503785020 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A snarky answer would probably be "coincidence".)
< 1503785040 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Snorepion 5*  10New user account
< 1503785161 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52937&oldid=52927 5* 03Snorepion 5* (+302) 10Introduction
< 1503786318 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad idea: C++ recently introduces sum types called "variants", so we should call structs covariants
< 1503786981 0 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@2a02:a448:4a62:1:25a7:f960:b539:20e8 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503786999 0 :Antoxyde__!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-79-28.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503787968 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Jeeves14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52938 5* 03Snorepion 5* (+3856) 10Create page and add details
< 1503788044 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503788148 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52939&oldid=52850 5* 03Snorepion 5* (+87) 10Add Jeeves to list
< 1503788422 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello fizzie!
< 1503788433 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503788961 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503790717 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503795503 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan
< 1503795551 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloony
< 1503795643 0 :^arcade_droid!~arcade_dr@unaffiliated/arcade-droid/x-4286778 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503796668 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503798859 0 :^arcade_droid!?@? NICK :use_strategy_lol
< 1503798865 0 :use_strategy_lol!?@? NICK :^arcade_droid
< 1503798949 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503798954 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:xyzzy//Nothing happens. \ bitcoin//bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking. \ bride theory//Bride theory is a theory involving
< 1503798955 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503798956 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:a headhunter who dresses in yellow. \ tarafurnar//Tarafurnar is the event after which you'll be seen. \ acab//ACAB is short for "all codecs are broken".
< 1503798999 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits bitcoin
< 1503799007 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafët
< 1503799019 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a chain really break once it reaches 21 million coins?
< 1503799043 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :all cows are bovine
< 1503799215 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all chicken are boily.
< 1503799248 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: chicken of the woods is the best chicken hth
< 1503799253 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still convinced that bitcoin is part scam, part money laundering.
< 1503799294 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf. next time I'm in the vicinity of the Mycoboutique, I'll buy some.
< 1503799310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that your fancy french name for the woods
< 1503799313 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo just go to the woods hth
< 1503799319 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :""leave me alone""
< 1503799324 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503799326 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far from woods...
< 1503799363 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is http://www.mycoboutique.com/fr/ .
< 1503799575 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503799846 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503800271 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503801765 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PILOT CHICKEN
< 1503802901 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503805488 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "Turing-compIete" mean (as opposed to "Turing-complete")?
< 1503805659 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode I
< 1503805661 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I]
< 1503805662 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1503805694 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thanks, those looked so similar in my browser font that i didn't notice there _was_ a difference
< 1503805700 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is probably the point)
< 1503805716 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browser font?
< 1503805719 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly the mediawiki font
< 1503805740 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jeeves
< 1503805798 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1503805852 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym Why, good Dr. Oerjan, they do in fact look similar! hth
< 1503805862 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or evil, if you prefer that.)
< 1503805865 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Oerjan?
< 1503805871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Ørjan was the doctor?
< 1503805877 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ørjan
< 1503805878 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
< 1503805897 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grWp -l twin
< 1503805911 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* \ ☾_ \ c# \ myname \ orin \ örjan \ ørjan \ pico \ sewerjan \ twint-e \ typoerjan \ אrjan
< 1503805943 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes certain people in this channel take things a bit too far.
< 1503805968 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all doctors, except sewerjan who couldn't afford the student fee
< 1503805990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sewerjan
< 1503805992 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin.
< 1503806014 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you didn't say "we're all doctors"
< 1503806025 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? örjan
< 1503806027 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
< 1503806034 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? typoerjan
< 1503806035 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin.
< 1503806091 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503806122 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg sewerjan
< 1503806132 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10333:2017-02-22  learn sewerjan is oerjan\'s extremely poor twin.
< 1503806143 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin.
< 1503806146 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'boorjan': boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin.
< 1503806326 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503806381 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503806387 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:amiga//Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. \ pirate//Pirates are humourously nautical persons. Their grammar is friendly and plural. \ apt-get//apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. \ zork//Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it. \ lie bracket//Politicians try to stay within t
< 1503806391 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503806392 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:he lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them.
< 1503808497 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503808791 0 :fuzzybunny44!~HP_DC7900@67-42-233-79.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503809471 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503809743 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503812164 0 :fuzzybunny44!~HP_DC7900@67-42-233-79.ptld.qwest.net PART #esoteric :
< 1503812551 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503812574 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503812719 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503812975 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503815391 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503818208 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503818515 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503818523 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wgrep -i hz
< 1503818523 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wgrep: not found
< 1503818542 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -Ri hz wisdom
< 1503818543 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/sbus:SBus is the standard bus in many a Sun SPARC-based system, capable of coping with thirty-two (32) bits in parallel, at rates of around 16.67 to 25 MHz. There is a 96-pin connector, and the cards lay parallel to the motherboard, like toppings on a sandwich. \ wisdom/2600:2600 Hz is a tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. \ wisdom/john:J
< 1503818555 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 ``` grep -Ri hz wisdom
< 1503818556 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/1:
< 1503818573 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1 ``` grep -Ri hz wisdom
< 1503818574 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file
< 1503818586 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1503818599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -Ri hz wisdom | tail -n+3
< 1503818600 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/john:John is not Hziulquoigmnzhah of Cykranosh, the dread spawn of Cxaxukluth, according to http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4072
< 1503818710 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not that John.
< 1503818717 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that name wasn't even invented by SMBC. I thought it was.
< 1503818755 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess "john" has a double meaning that I didn't intend there.
< 1503819202 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503819221 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503819237 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503819436 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503819443 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503819892 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503820590 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503820631 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M:tG stuff: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2017/06/unstable-magic-the-gathering-spoilers-news-updates/ spoilers for the upcoming Unstable unset.
< 1503820872 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected they'd do more reprints from black-bordered world, but no, only one aside from basic lands.
< 1503821002 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and why is the green-white faction green-white too)
< 1503821214 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently that set still uses the fractions from unhinged
< 1503821580 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractions *are* broken numbers after all
< 1503821643 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know this puzzle: I think of a polynomial of any degree with natural coefficients. How many points do you need me to evaluate it at to figure out what it is?
< 1503821692 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that one is easy, but I recall there was some twisted harder version
< 1503821715 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's easy. What's the harder version?
< 1503821742 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember
< 1503821750 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, easy?
< 1503821787 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the solution is straightforward.
< 1503821791 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the easy, but impossible, version uses integer coefficients)
< 1503821819 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean it's easy because the answer is "it's impossible"?
< 1503821826 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503821834 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1503821837 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no
< 1503821846 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here the coefficients are natural numbers
< 1503821848 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to int-e.
< 1503821851 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes this possible
< 1503821858 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make a difference
< 1503821868 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still possible with integer coefficients
< 1503821877 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it is?
< 1503821887 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the degree is unknown, isn't it
< 1503821888 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems suspicious to me.
< 1503821893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, degree is unknown
< 1503821894 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the degree is unknown
< 1503821908 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's impossible with integer coefficients
< 1503821928 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way
< 1503821942 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to pick your favorite transcendent real number and evaluate it there
< 1503821947 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503821952 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uniquely designates the polynomial
< 1503821968 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result that is
< 1503821983 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I want to think a bit
< 1503821990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was thinking that the polynomial is evaluated at integer points as well.
< 1503822010 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is? that was the harder version, yes
< 1503822022 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in that case, two points for natural coeffs and impossible for integer coeffs I believe
< 1503822050 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was also assuming that. Using a transcendental number makes it... ugly.)
< 1503822093 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking it but didn't specify it.
< 1503822180 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, 2 is enough
< 1503822231 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe specifying that I had a computable algorithm in mind is enough.
< 1503822635 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it enough?
< 1503822671 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503822727 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I suspect that if you input something like sum 1/2^2^k then the answer will include all the information one needs.
< 1503823503 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact any computable transcendental number greater than 1 will work. The point is that if you use a number greater than 1, then the integer part of the result gives you an upper bound on the coefficients and the degree, so that when you reach the fractions, only finitely many candidate polynomials remain; you can evaluate all those at your number and eliminate those whose value does not equal...
< 1503823509 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the given one. Because the number is transcendental, and disequality of computable reals is semidecidable, only one polynomial will remain in the end.
< 1503823565 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is convolution with a kernel, the kind that people talk about in image processing, a special case of the usual convolution?
< 1503823568 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it must be, but the relationship isn't obvious.
< 1503823597 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a "nice" computable real like that sum 1/2^2^k one I suggested should make it much more efficient though :)
< 1503823614 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1503823654 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes
< 1503823793 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work?
< 1503823799 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obscure part to me is why it's called a kernel :/
< 1503823819 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an ordinary discrete, two-dimensional covolution, no magic at all?
< 1503823824 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*convolution
< 1503823849 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the functions being convolved?
< 1503823860 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image
< 1503823880 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the kernel, with the center at (0,0), and perhaps a switch from k(x,y) to k(-x,-y).
< 1503823903 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This works for a 1D image and 1D kernel, right?
< 1503823913 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 1D image is presumably a function : [n] -> R or something like that.
< 1503823922 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the 1D kernel?
< 1503823922 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[n]?
< 1503823930 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[n] meaning the set of naturals < n
< 1503823939 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually an interval [-k,k]
< 1503823952 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of integers)
< 1503823967 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and what's the convolution?
< 1503823976 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: works for 2D images too
< 1503823980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general I expect a convolution to look like this: (f * g)(x) = A_{i,j | b(i,j) = x} { c(f(i), g(j)) }
< 1503823983 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1503823988 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the image is one of the functions, and the kernel is the other one
< 1503824007 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f |-> \x -> sum_{i in Z} f(x-i)k(i)
< 1503824038 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there has to be a sum in there (unless you're a mathematical physicsist and using tensor notation)
< 1503824045 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you said k was only defined on the interval [-k,k]?
< 1503824051 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: A,b,c are operations
< 1503824061 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example A = Σ, b = + , c = ·
< 1503824068 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make it (f * g)(x) = Σ_{i,j | i + j = x} { f(i)g(j) }
< 1503824073 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x+i) k(i) which is probably how it's implemented, and corresponds to the switch from k(x) to k(-x) I suggested.
< 1503824078 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, that seems garbled
< 1503824084 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-ascii part that is
< 1503824088 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes
< 1503824102 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's supposed to be a capital sigma and a multiplication dot
< 1503824116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But A might be min, or maybe an integral or something.
< 1503824119 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you either assume the kernel and image are zero in the rest of the places, or you say the sum only goes when both i and j are in the respective domains
< 1503824130 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1503824139 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: f is the image; g is the kernel, possibly reflected, and one of the points is that g(j) is zero almost everywhere.
< 1503824170 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, redundancy is redundant.
< 1503824183 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? redundancy
< 1503824186 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it.
< 1503824192 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess I see.
< 1503824207 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: either that or it converges to zero exponentially fast as j goes to infinity and -infinity, and when computing we may approximate the small values with zeros
< 1503824224 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concretely convolution in the finite case where b = + usually corresponds the antidiagonals of some matrix, right?
< 1503824233 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well the question was about image processing :)
< 1503824240 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people often convolve images with bell curves, but since they don't need infinite precision, it's practically zero far enough
< 1503824264 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: for image processing still, people blur images with gaussians
< 1503824295 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, for 1d
< 1503824319 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the matrix here?
< 1503824354 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, but I believe they tend to do that by iterating rectangular filters like [1/3,1/3,1/3]
< 1503824355 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the matrix is the outer product of two vectors, the first vector is column vector of values of f, second vector is row vector of rosw of g
< 1503824377 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that or something similar, which is a good approximation
< 1503824388 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I have an image [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] and I convolve it with the kernel [a,b,c]
< 1503824393 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't always exactly use [1/3,1/3,1/3] but still
< 1503824407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, box filters was the main point
< 1503824415 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's does the matrix end up being there?
< 1503824419 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe that's what they are called)
< 1503824490 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there are these fast methods for computing such convolutions even if the image and kernel are both big, of which the most famous is called fast fourier transform, but there are other transform methods
< 1503824514 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: [1;2;3;4;5;6;7]*[a,b,c]
< 1503824519 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect [c, b+2c, a+2b+3c, 2a+3b+4c, ..., 5a+6b+7c, 6a+7c, 7a] in an actual implementation, and possibly truncated
< 1503824533 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's the convolution
< 1503824537 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual definition would swap a and c.
< 1503824540 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: But what are the antidiagonals of that?
< 1503824562 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: wasn't that the question?
< 1503824578 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one antidiagonal is [1*c, 2*b, 3*a]
< 1503824591 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or backwards maybe
< 1503824596 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever way you read it
< 1503824633 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: " What's does the matrix end up being there?"
< 1503824719 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if you want to have a trace in the definition
< 1503824733 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no
< 1503824737 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trace?
< 1503824759 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum of diagonal entries, in the case of matrices
< 1503824762 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Oh, I see.
< 1503824773 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just antidiagonals in a non-square matrix.
< 1503824870 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503825046 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does that work with the definition I gave above?
< 1503825059 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :img : [7] -> R
< 1503825074 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :krn : [3] -> R
< 1503825194 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(i,j) = i-j, c(x,y) = x*y, A = sum
< 1503825210 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure b should be +
< 1503825238 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is standard; - is what implementations tend to do
< 1503825240 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on which direction you convolve. some call the plus version convolution, some call it correlation and the minus version convolution.
< 1503825253 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a terminology difference.
< 1503825271 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like which direction of fourier transform is forward is also a terminology difference
< 1503825306 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to read documentation carefully to find out what conventions it uses for the formulas
< 1503825324 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit surprising that img/krn don't have the same domain.
< 1503825330 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to actually get a result of length 9, you should pad 'img' with two zeros to the left and to the right.
< 1503825337 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose you can extend them both to Z and define them aas 0 everywhere else.
< 1503825362 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does the 2D version work?
< 1503825374 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503825383 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same, but now i and j are pairs and b is pairwise addition
< 1503825395 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b((i1,i2),(j1,j2)) = (i1-j1,i2-j2)
< 1503825396 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or pairwise subtraction, whichever)
< 1503825401 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or addition
< 1503825402 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense.
< 1503825413 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtraction is so confusing.
< 1503825417 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to be commutative.
< 1503825481 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily implement one from the other by reversing one of the inputs
< 1503825489 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1503825492 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtraction corresponds to  r = 0; for (int i = 0; i < ker.length; i++) r += img[x+i]*ker[i]; res[x] = r;
< 1503825564 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like convolution in contexts where you don't have inverses so you can't even say f(i)g(x-i)
< 1503825643 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the whole thing is made cool by the fact that GPS devices do 1d convolution
< 1503825656 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503825664 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do?
< 1503825674 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's one of the most important technological uses
< 1503826120 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically GPS satellites can't be each assigned different frequencies like radio stations, so you can't pick their signals out with just simple electronics, their signal is really weak, and they aren't just round-robin broadcasting either, they just all talk at the same time,
< 1503826182 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to pick out the voice of one satellite from the others and all the other noise that's actually stronger than the signals, GPS clients digitize the signals they receive and convolve it with what the GPS is expected to say to find out when they received that signal, and they do the convolution in microchips digitally
< 1503826199 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite crazy
< 1503826745 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503826985 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503828364 0 :wob_jonas!b03f186b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.107 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503833396 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie probably went to work already, right?
< 1503835960 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, on a Sunday? 
< 1503835986 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that far gone yet.
< 1503837470 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503837479 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/5cZlR8am <- feedback/ideas?
< 1503837483 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 2d bot programming game.
< 1503837496 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with swarms of bots.
< 1503837570 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if a bot dies it'll respawn at the base)
< 1503837630 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe st/ld should be 16bit
< 1503837653 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it's probably possible to have scouting bots scan the whole field into team memory
< 1503837659 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be used for pathfinding then
< 1503838441 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can RET be used for computed gotos?
< 1503838687 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's no indirect addressing it seems
< 1503838883 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and bots might want to know how healthy, strong or eagle-eyed they are.
< 1503839457 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. true.
< 1503839462 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ret?
< 1503839463 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503839468 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just push a number and then use ret
< 1503839475 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/ret stack and data stack are the same
< 1503839675 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumps/calls are absolute
< 1503839680 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use ret.
< 1503839711 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's the business of interleaving all that concurrent activity.
< 1503839754 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well each bot executes one instruction
< 1503839756 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the next bot.
< 1503839782 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A1,B1,A2,B2,A3,B3 I guess.
< 1503839810 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although might be cool if bot can sleep
< 1503839816 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and forfeit their time slots for a few rounds.
< 1503839826 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you have the ball
< 1503839830 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the other bots sleep
< 1503839838 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the bot with the ball can move faster :D
< 1503839907 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/UvEQlm3l <- updated
< 1503839996 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and yeah. bots keep their power-ups
< 1503840014 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that taking them actually is of benefit.
< 1503840320 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you walk into an obstacle or other bot?
< 1503840475 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503840516 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that's a nop then.
< 1503840522 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't walk into non free space
< 1503840533 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(execept for picking stuff up or returning ball to base)
< 1503842407 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503842686 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503844623 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503845670 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503845926 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503846394 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503848077 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.82.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503848915 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503849195 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503849976 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ςσ
< 1503849977 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+03C2 GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA] [U+03C3 GREEK SMALL LETTER SIGMA]
< 1503850426 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.82.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503850550 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503850569 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503850589 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503850596 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503850869 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503851072 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503851078 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re
< 1503851497 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503851594 0 :n00blet!~n00blet@ppp108-178.static.internode.on.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503851878 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503852096 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the moment your df interpreter doesn't terminate
< 1503852101 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you KNOW you fucked up BIG
< 1503852104 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because df doesn't even have loops.
< 1503852148 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :df, hmm. dwarf fortress, probably not.
< 1503852174 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there was this deadfish thing
< 1503852197 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1503852202 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just horribly slow
< 1503852205 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK
< 1503852263 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what language stack did you write it in?
< 1503852649 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503852794 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :python :D
< 1503852832 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( perhaps it's a long-winded program )
< 1503852836 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isidsddsdiisddisiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiio
< 1503852840 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it works.
< 1503853426 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiidsiiiisddddddddddddo
< 1503853434 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is great :D
< 1503853533 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iissdddsddddddo
< 1503853536 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1503853578 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiisiiisiiiiiiiiiio
< 1503853584 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks optimal I'd say
< 1503853610 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. no.
< 1503854282 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1503854286 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I define a nice heuristic function
< 1503854291 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it optimizes also for length.
< 1503854374 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1503854375 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503854380 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iissdddsddddddddddddo
< 1503854383 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's optimal :D
< 1503854501 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiisiiiisddddddddddddo
< 1503854564 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for numbers >3, you can just start from the nearest square... except when that square is 256
< 1503854587 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1503854673 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there is a similar special case around 65536, of course)
< 1503854799 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... should  iissisdssss  print 0 in deadfish?
< 1503854970 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1503854989 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is why I believe genetic evolutionary algo stuff will never find certain solutions.
< 1503855006 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know :)
< 1503855009 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems not to be able to be able to find a solution for 257
< 1503855017 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a haskell program to generate the shortest dfconstants.
< 1503855023 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish/Constants)
< 1503855093 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 257 is awkward... iissisdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
< 1503855140 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503855367 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's never going to combine into that.
< 1503855376 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll reach 255 eventually
< 1503855378 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then
< 1503855380 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll stuck
< 1503855602 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iissisdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd'o
< 1503855614 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :259
< 1503855617 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok works :D
< 1503855618 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1503855667 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidssiisiisisdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
< 1503855673 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably needs some dead code elimination :D
< 1503855680 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidss is pretty useless at the front :D
< 1503856210 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503856493 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isi+s+dAdsidi+iAss/aA-aiaiad*d-s-+diii+i+iadd/diA+d+/d
< 1503856496 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will produce 257 :D
< 1503856499 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in extended deadfish :D
< 1503856705 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yey
< 1503857117 0 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503857550 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Bitmapper 5*  10New user account
< 1503858491 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503858797 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503858833 0 :zseri!5e86dad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.218.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503859605 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: how about this, iiisisdddddddsddsiiisddddddsdddddddsddsiiiisiiiii produces -2 on a 32 bit deadfish implementation
< 1503859714 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unlikely to be optimal, but this involves quite a bit of manual effort so I will stop there. Also, doing that for 64 bits seems to be out of reach for me right now)
< 1503859857 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some implementations may use decimal arithmetic, such as the one for Famicom and the one for MIX, and possibly some others too.
< 1503859882 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, feel free to come up with code for such implementations
< 1503860346 0 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503860465 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/mfiYr4C4
< 1503860479 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code is probably not the best to produce offspring anyway.
< 1503860483 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503860494 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always taking the ten best is probably not good.
< 1503860501 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the ten best tend to look pretty much alike in the end
< 1503860512 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll never really produce 257
< 1503860717 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503860965 0 :n00blet!?@? NICK :n00blet_
< 1503861052 0 :n00blet_!?@? NICK :o_0
< 1503861434 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creationists were right.
< 1503861450 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution is a lousy idea :)
< 1503861460 0 :o_0!?@? NICK :n00blet
< 1503861976 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much fun... "iiisisdssissdsiississdddsiissiiiisiiiii" produces -2 as well, and is optimal.
< 1503862033 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iissdddsiiiiiisisdsiisisdsiisiiiiii produces 255, and iissdsdssisiiiisiisssdddsddds produces 257, all assuming 32 bit deadfish
< 1503862297 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503862504 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, finally, a Hello, world! program (with final newline): iiisdsiiiiiiiiossssiiisisioiiiiiiiooiiioisssiiisddsdddddoddddddddddddosssiiisiisddoddddddddoiiioddddddoddddddddossssiisiisdddodsssiiisio
< 1503863298 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503863439 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys i created hardfish a much harder variant of deadfish
< 1503863480 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of s there's c
< 1503863486 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where c = one collatz step
< 1503863501 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 257 is iiicicciicdcdidcc
< 1503863549 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or iiiciciicicdcdcc 
< 1503863670 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: http://codepad.org/vL6jJHNg
< 1503863857 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this assumes wrap around though right?
< 1503863873 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503863902 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I mean by "32 bit deadfish", numbers wrap at 2^32.
< 1503864000 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1503864009 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all numbers reachable with just i and c
< 1503864049 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1503864060 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without any two i's in succession
< 1503864137 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes.
< 1503864402 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a sketch, assuming unbounded natural numbers, you can first make the number big (so that the +1 of the 3n+1 becomes negligible for the next phase), then adjust the log_2 to have the right fractional part (the precision required for that is bounded by the target number; if it's n, then you want the fractional part between the fractional parts of log_2(n-1) and log_2(n)), and then divide by 2...
< 1503864408 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...repeatedly to get the number you desire.
< 1503864610 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mroman2 5*  10New user account
< 1503865009 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the approach is stupid though; for example, 257 is produced by iciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciciccciciciccciciciccciciciciciccccicicciccicicicicicicicicccicciciciciciccccciciciccccicicccicicciccciccccccciciciccicicicc
< 1503865014 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52940&oldid=52937 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+108) 10
< 1503865025 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52941 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+698) 10hardfiiiiish
< 1503865069 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting.
< 1503865115 0 :n00blet!~n00blet@ppp108-178.static.internode.on.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503865179 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52942&oldid=52941 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+36) 10/* Some Constants */ starting c is a nop obviously.
< 1503865195 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd talk here more often, but I'd run the risk of self-contradicting people who at the same time don't harbor any hate for me at all, and have a grudge against me.
< 1503865254 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I wonder how the world would react if I was also an extremely unforgiving, confusing person.
< 1503865325 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are confusing
< 1503865362 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not unforgiving, though, and I don't contradict myself in the span of a few minutes.
< 1503865376 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4 mroman and everyone else thinks I do.
< 1503865392 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, that's all I ever seem to be.
< 1503865393 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1503865546 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503866039 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel
< 1503866199 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52943&oldid=52942 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+129) 10/* Some Constants */ more constants
< 1503866203 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: http://sprunge.us/WRFH -- hardfish constants :)
< 1503866237 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503866239 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1503866245 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1503866246 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1503866254 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have ii in your programs
< 1503866273 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you actually forbade that.
< 1503866279 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1503866290 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, easy to fix
< 1503866300 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. found 30. iccicccicccicciccicicci
< 1503866510 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52944&oldid=52943 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+173) 10/* Some Constants */ more constants
< 1503866533 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my evolver seems to be unable to find something for 38.
< 1503866542 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@104-50-90-48.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503866812 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52945&oldid=52944 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+55) 10/* Some Constants */
< 1503867141 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: http://sprunge.us/iKHK  then
< 1503867166 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a Hello, world!, assuming we add o: iciccicciciccioccicicccccccoicicciccicicciooccccccicccciciccioicciccoccccccccciccoicccccicioiccicicciciccioiciccccccccccicciocicicciccccioccccicccicocciccciccio
< 1503867377 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you brute force them?
< 1503867383 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use that log2 method?
< 1503867390 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's brute force
< 1503867404 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the log2 method would produce much longer solutions
< 1503867449 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not that hard :(
< 1503867451 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well..
< 1503867463 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, 255, 256, 257 would have code of length 643 1106 226, respectively
< 1503867490 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1503867493 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very effecient yes
< 1503867541 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you computed all 2^34 programs?
< 1503867545 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this short time?
< 1503867546 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O
< 1503867557 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it "only" grows as fast as the fibonacci numbers
< 1503867567 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1503867569 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really 2^32
< 1503867573 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (scanl(+)1.(0:)) !! 34
< 1503867575 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ii is not allowed
< 1503867576 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9227465
< 1503867588 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still quite managable, really
< 1503867683 0 :zseri!5e86dad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.218.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the line " 27 - cciccciccicicci" in [[Hardfish]], I think "cc" at the begin is a nop?
< 1503867697 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (scanl(+)1.(0:)) !! 37 -- actually
< 1503867700 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 39088169
< 1503867731 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: it was evolved
< 1503867826 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: but the program actually enumerates values, so if two prefixes produce the same value they only count as one
< 1503867846 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1503867848 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was EVOLVED
< 1503867849 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1503867854 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to do some changes to it.
< 1503867856 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too boring this way
< 1503867908 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: people have the same complaint about DNA, most of it is, as far as we can tell, redundant, though sometimes we find a purpose for parts that were previously thought to be unused
< 1503868009 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: and it turns out that *a lot* of values collapse. Here's a list of the intermediate set sizes: http://sprunge.us/IIjH  (there are two sets in each iteration, one for programs ending in 'c' and one for programs ending in 'i')
< 1503868187 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1503868239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52946&oldid=52945 5* 03Mroman2 5* (-89) 10/* hardfish */ change a lot to make it more intelesting.
< 1503868266 0 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgrsmoxbnehcgxfj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503868277 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52947&oldid=52946 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+5) 10* typo
< 1503868308 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pass, but 'r' is indeed interesting
< 1503868342 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52948&oldid=52947 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+136) 10+ let's support the o instruction as well.
< 1503868381 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it raises the question how to write Hello world with as few 'o' instructions as possible :)
< 1503868499 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's possible with a single 'o' if one can find a code segment that produces 72 from 0, and can also produce all the other necessary values... and that may be tough to put into practice.
< 1503868503 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1503868602 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, iriririr would produce 11?
< 1503868639 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14
< 1503868655 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1503868730 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1503869141 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qcrcrqirqrqic produces 11 according to my evolver :D
< 1503869174 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :icrcr is also 14
< 1503869200 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qiriri is 14 as well
< 1503869234 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iqrqcqiqrqiq is 257 :D
< 1503869315 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes... whether it's possible to have less o's than output characters is interesting
< 1503869346 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have a hunch that these programs are probably longer than the ones with more o's in them
< 1503869356 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... gotta go
< 1503869359 0 :mroman!b2c5eac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.234.196 QUIT :Quit: cu
< 1503869435 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I right in thinking that simply typed lambda calculus + a fixed point combinator is Turing complete?
< 1503870578 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: just to clarify, you'd have a fixed point combinator for each type?
< 1503870614 0 :zseri!5e86dad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.218.208 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503870705 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1503871170 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \n f z -> n (\g x -> f (g x)) (\x -> x) z
< 1503871171 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((t -> t5) -> t -> t4) -> (t1 -> t1) -> t3 -> t2) -> (t5 -> t4) -> t3 -> t2
< 1503872078 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503873886 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503873931 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503874547 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503875279 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503876673 0 :bouncingbuteo!~u0_a302@75-166-210-180.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503876756 0 :bouncingbuteo!~u0_a302@75-166-210-180.hlrn.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503877356 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Quit: *
< 1503877391 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503878402 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in
< 1503878420 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503879075 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503879906 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503880040 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503880139 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohily
< 1503880534 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsϿϿϿϿϿirjan
< 1503880861 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503882934 0 :ATMunn!?@? NICK :nnuMTA
< 1503882949 0 :moony!?@? NICK :ynoom
< 1503882956 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503882962 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:diagram//A diagram is just a functor. \ equal temperament//Equal temperament is just intonation that's evenly spaced. \ unlambda//``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci \ french//Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant! \ orodruin//The Orodruin is a mounta
< 1503882972 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503882973 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:in heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient.
< 1503883099 0 :nnuMTA!?@? NICK :ATMunn
< 1503883304 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503883527 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/w
< 1503883528 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom "$@"
< 1503883536 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/wisdom
< 1503883537 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
< 1503883708 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/wisdom//s/"\${/&/; s#//##
< 1503883710 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wisdom//f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
< 1503883712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503883717 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdomIt is now. \ zimbabweolsner's desk points zimbabwards. It is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. \ associativityAssociativity means that h(th) = (ht)h, if you're flexible about it. \ monoidal categoryMonoidal categories are just 2-categories with a single object. \ all the tropes
< 1503883723 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1503883724 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1503883726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1503883732 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/wisdom//s/"\${/&/; s#//#&#
< 1503883735 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wisdom//f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
< 1503883736 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503883741 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:tea//Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean. \ htdh//HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. \ e-module//E-modules
< 1503883742 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503883743 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: are modules over a web ring. Uaneb invented them. \ spork//A spork is something to be randomly held in front of penguins. \ quote//Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
< 1503883752 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1503883753 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1503883754 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1503883764 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/wisdom//s/"\${/&/; s#//#&#
< 1503883766 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wisdom//f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
< 1503883768 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503883773 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:stibia//Stibia is a spice that grows in your leg. \ `learn//`learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] [s][punctuation] [...] \ fternooner//fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is
< 1503883776 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52949&oldid=52885 5* 03LyricLy 5* (-88) 10
< 1503883777 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503883778 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:a screamingly delicious pastry. \ `help//`help [] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom. \ yorick//We know nothing about yorick, alas.
< 1503883784 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better.
< 1503883806 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you think 04c08o09l11o12r is too much twh
< 1503883891 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503883950 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :color is too much work for me to type in irc, anyway.
< 1503883967 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1503883984 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER MIND
< 1503884596 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52950&oldid=52949 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+95) 10
< 1503884875 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? coulor
< 1503884877 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coulor is the correct spelling.
< 1503885222 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503885313 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503885505 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503885721 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, AWS machine rebooted for the first time in like a year
< 1503885847 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Maybe you understand non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs?
< 1503885874 0 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure what that refers to
< 1503885957 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: INSISTENT CHICKEN
< 1503885986 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( he can only prove he does it in a blog post, not on irc )
< 1503886075 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503886207 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503886221 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503886234 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503886251 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503886461 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Maybe Later14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52951 5* 03TehFlaminTaco 5* (+4404) 10Initial Writeup.
< 1503886499 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Maybe Later14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52952&oldid=52951 5* 03TehFlaminTaco 5* (-25) 10Category Fixes
< 1503886519 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Maybe Later14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52953&oldid=52952 5* 03TehFlaminTaco 5* (+0) 10
< 1503886590 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52954&oldid=52930 5* 03TehFlaminTaco 5* (+18) 10Added Maybe Later to the list.
< 1503886769 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503887275 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Do you like the regular kind of zero-knowledge proofs?
< 1503887286 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably don't like the name because it's probabilistic.
< 1503888965 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503889282 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503889366 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503889396 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kerbybit 5*  10New user account
< 1503889405 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503889706 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52955&oldid=52940 5* 03Kerbybit 5* (+116) 10/* Introductions */
< 1503889711 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503890253 0 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I just have zero knowledge about them
< 1503890267 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good!
< 1503891303 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503891330 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503892443 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH
< 1503893413 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503893418 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:fternooner//fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry. \ promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is p. difficult. \ eventually//Eventually we'll have a better wisdom h
< 1503893426 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503893426 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:ere. \ despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ select//select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, condit
< 1503893428 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503893429 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:ional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more.
< 1503893652 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if i send you a copy of a jam would you jam it
< 1503893709 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i only eat genuine jams hth
< 1503893728 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean computer game.
< 1503893753 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely hth
< 1503893767 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not even sure what that means, but still unlikely.)
< 1503893985 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503894119 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503895139 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1503897261 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make poker with tarot?
< 1503898214 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a list of the kind of hand of poker with tarot, which has 32 kind of hand
< 1503898492 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503898511 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1503898997 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have the 2 and 4 and 6 of money, and the III and V of trumps, then it makes a impure straight flush.
< 1503899148 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually I made a mistake there isn't 32 kind of hand)
< 1503901546 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that Double Fanucci?
< 1503901596 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is poker with tarot cards
< 1503901610 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Double Fanucci is better.
< 1503901657 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have to figure out the ranking of the hands by the probability.
< 1503903198 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503903242 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there barely any easily reusable libraries that give you a balanced search tree with a C interface, and can you recommend one?
< 1503903273 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing exists with interfaces for a lot of other programming languages, but I've only seen one with a C interface, the one in GNU libc, and that library is highly nonportable.
< 1503903339 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, how come APR doesn't have one?
< 1503903671 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the interface in GNU libc sucks, it's limited)
< 1503904292 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.55 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1503905311 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1503906469 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503906475 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three accounts now
< 1503906480 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this against the policy :D
< 1503909514 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, who writes "computably enumerable" for "recursively enumerable"
< 1503909696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be a better name?
< 1503909735 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503909780 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late now
< 1503910079 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: anyway, yes, I believe a fixed point combinator makes the simply typed lambda calculus TC, but what I have in mind would work with Diophantine sets, so it's not exactly obvious. In particular, even with a fixed point combinator, I don't see a way of doing full primitive recursion directly.
< 1503910232 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, thank you
< 1503910270 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503910330 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503910590 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503910607 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The best part about that use of "computably enumerable" is the next sentence: 'The MRDP theorem states that a set of integers is Diophantine if and only if it is /computably/ enumerable. A set of integers S is /recursively/ enumerable [...]' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_set)
< 1503911146 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1503912719 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503912930 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the fixpoint combinatior this \x.xx thing?
< 1503912949 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have a type in simply typed lambda calculus though
< 1503913150 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, no, it's \f.(\x.f(x x)) (\x.f(x x)), I think it has the type (X -> X) -> X
< 1503913193 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it turns f into f (f (f (f (f (f ...
< 1503913235 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not that, because that doesn't type-check.
< 1503913241 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes
< 1503913274 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fixed point combinator in untyped lambda calculus, and a valid type for the whole thingy
< 1503913303 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has to be a black box to the type system
< 1503913308 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you probably need a family of fixed point combinations, I think int-e mentioned.
< 1503913375 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1503913438 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinators
< 1503913444 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what does "combinator" mean again?
< 1503913453 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should just be called a function.
< 1503913454 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's kind of an empty word to me
< 1503913480 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Err, I have a gap, since I cannot do subtraction. (I have a predecessor function for Church numerals, but it changes the type of the numeral, so it cannot be iterated). I'm not sure that this can be overcome.
< 1503913537 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Subtraction is more or less needed for testing equality; equality testing is needed for encoding Diophantine set)
< 1503913553 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, hmm, that is an obstacle
< 1503913562 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does STLC have a good representation of natural numbers?
< 1503913747 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church numerals is the only thing that I can see working; in particular all the nice ADT ideas seem to run into the problem that a type cannot contain itself.
< 1503913845 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do Church numerals work?
< 1503913881 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \n f x -> iterate f x !! n
< 1503913883 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
< 1503913891 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I mean in STLC
< 1503913900 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you just assign some particular type?
< 1503913902 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can instantiate (a -> a) -> a -> a 
< 1503913913 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nce you instantiate it you get other inhabitants.
< 1503913916 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1503913940 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really matter for TC considerations
< 1503914049 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1503914066 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a contract, outside of the type system, to only use actual Church numerals
< 1503914088 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question was meant more generally.
< 1503914189 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, without changing the type you can define a family of functions called extended polynomials. you have constants, addition, multiplication, and if-zero-then-else. not enough to get a predecessor
< 1503914261 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's without fixed point combinators; I don't really have a good handle on how much power they can actually add)
< 1503914317 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. lunch, work... laters
< 1503914324 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you represent naturals as unfolds instead of folds?
< 1503915764 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503916406 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503916457 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f.(\x.fxx)(\x.fxx)
< 1503916458 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one?
< 1503916505 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you call it with x this becomes (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
< 1503916643 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how fix can terminate in haskell.
< 1503916690 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. lazy evaluation will do it.
< 1503916736 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (\x.xx)(\x.xx) definitely doesn't have a type in ST LC.
< 1503917584 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503917809 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503917863 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman No, \f.(\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x))
< 1503917864 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503917899 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman this becomes \f.f ((\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x))
< 1503917899 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503917911 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Which is the same but applied to an f
< 1503917912 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503919347 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503919690 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1503920056 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503921525 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503921528 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`döts Hardfish
< 1503921531 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Ḧärdfïsḧ
< 1503921550 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud
< 1503921550 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 5d 11h 45m 5s ago:  !bftxt_gen <-- EgoBot is dead, use `! bf_txtgen for HackEgo's version
< 1503921550 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb said 1h 1m 26s ago: No, \f.(\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x))
< 1503921550 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb said 1h 51s ago: this becomes \f.f ((\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x))
< 1503922023 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Härdfïsh14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52956 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+895) 10Created page with "''Härdfïsh'' is a cross-over of [[Brainfuck]] and [[Hardfish]]. It introduces the , instruction from Brainfuck which is used to input a character (ASCII) wherea..."
< 1503922077 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52957&oldid=52948 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+53) 10
< 1503922604 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Härdfïsh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52958&oldid=52956 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+150) 10* algorithms
< 1503922611 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Härdfïsh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52959&oldid=52958 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+1) 10/* = Setting a cell to one */
< 1503922655 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Härdfïsh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52960&oldid=52959 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+102) 10/* Setting a cell to one */ moo :(
< 1503922748 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: MINIM CHICKEN
< 1503922833 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503923806 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52961&oldid=52957 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+125) 10/* Some Constants */
< 1503923919 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52962&oldid=52961 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+0) 10/* With r */
< 1503923943 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52963&oldid=52962 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+69) 10/* Some Constants */
< 1503924608 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell taneb https://mathoverflow.net/questions/261934/is-simply-typed-lambda-calculus-with-fixed-point-combinator-turing-complete
< 1503924608 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1503925278 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-249-126-249.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503925278 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-249-126-249.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1503925278 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503925634 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52964&oldid=52963 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+378) 10/* With r */
< 1503925678 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52965&oldid=52964 5* 03Mroman2 5* (-10) 10/* With r */ fucked up the spaces.
< 1503926168 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503926496 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52966&oldid=52965 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+5943) 10/* With r */ all constants with r (non optimal)
< 1503926580 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52967&oldid=52966 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+6821) 10/* Without r */ all constast without r (non optimal)
< 1503926614 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah shit.
< 1503926680 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52968&oldid=52967 5* 03Mroman2 5* (-5943) 10Undo revision 52966 by [[Special:Contributions/Mroman2|Mroman2]] ([[User talk:Mroman2|talk]])
< 1503927001 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hardfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52969&oldid=52968 5* 03Mroman2 5* (-3464) 10! this time it should be correct.
< 1503927612 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day walked past a forest planted by "the Kent Men of the Trees".
< 1503927614 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound like a tribe or a cult or something.
< 1503927733 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 QUIT :Quit: away
< 1503928302 0 :zseri!5e86cb81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.203.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503929405 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503929994 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503930768 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503931002 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503931051 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tfw even a guy from 10'000 BC could draw better animals than you
< 1503932827 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie, have you commited the fixes to UMLBox?
< 1503935055 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-80-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503935971 0 :ynoom!?@? NICK :moony
< 1503936109 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someday somebody will look at brainfuck programs
< 1503936114 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be like voynich manuscript
< 1503936119 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1503936139 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :experts will disagree on the time period
< 1503936142 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think it's a hoax
< 1503936166 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while others will say it's a cipher hiding important information about extinct plants.
< 1503936180 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :others agree that it was created by kids on cocaine
< 1503936211 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't know what cocaine was
< 1503936216 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been lost
< 1503936218 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just know it's some drug
< 1503936227 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe some of the brainfuck stuff contains instructions on how to create cocaine
< 1503936237 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea for a programming language that uses only sets. (Only type is a set. A set can contain a set. Sets can be combined, split by a reference set, have all matches in one set removed from another, and have all matches duplicated)
< 1503936261 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, i actually think it *might* be turing complete. Which is intresting.
< 1503936296 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, forgot to mention, sets can be compared, and either jmp if yes or just continue if no)
< 1503936405 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already know a pseudo-fibonnaci can be made (With the amount of sets in the set 'A' being the number)
< 1503936487 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo arthimetric and a jump-if-equal... Yea. Anyone else have a opinion on this? I think it should be possible to do 3-cell unbounded brainfuck.
< 1503936918 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact... Hmm, wow, i think it should be possible to make a turing complete language by using 3 of any datastructure that can contain itself. Bounded or not.
< 1503938376 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: Hadn't when you asked, but now sent them out: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/pull-requests/1
< 1503938570 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503938966 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool fizzie
< 1503938978 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't showed you what I've done with UMLBox, by the way
< 1503938988 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Kurolox/ArcoexBot
< 1503939090 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that screenshot, just a few hours late.
< 1503939092 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know anything about Discord though.
< 1503939186 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503939369 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, why would you repeat the fs contents  instead of padding with zeros
< 1503939414 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1503939430 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :That probably has something to do with „Ghost in the Shell“ from the 2017s.
< 1503939472 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't know, but that seems clearly to be what's happening. I haven't looked it up in the code.
< 1503939501 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't blame you, I wouldn't either.
< 1503939507 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is curious :)
< 1503939917 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I see where it happens in the code, but I don't really know the intention.
< 1503939976 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a read loop of the form   do { n = pread(...); ... } while ((n < len) && (n != 0)).
< 1503940024 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it used to use regular "read" at some point, in which case that'd repeatedly read until enough bytes had been read or an EOF occurred.
< 1503940036 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since read would advance the file offset.
< 1503940055 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then maybe later on it was changed to a pread call, which takes the offset as an argument, but the loop wasn't modified to increment that.
< 1503940064 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it's actually a bug.
< 1503940064 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503940079 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1503940094 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :,o0(git blame)
< 1503940155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503940172 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/8c6157b6b -- looks that way.
< 1503940229 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "bug" is arguable, I don't think the documentation specifies what *should* happen when the backing file isn't multiple-of-a-block sized.
< 1503940244 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But repeatedly reading from the same offset is at least a little odd.
< 1503940368 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (n < len) memset(&buf[n], 0, len - n); <-- so it was supposed to pad with zeros.
< 1503940403 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if it hit EOF. Of course now it won't ever do so.
< 1503940412 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does smell a little buggy.
< 1503940434 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes it's a bug... though I have a hard time imagining any actual problems... and that's despite having an actual example! :P
< 1503940472 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, if you emulate a block device, you shouldn't be returning partial blocks)
< 1503940488 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd post on the devel mailing list but that seems like too much work.
< 1503940652 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lkml is scary
< 1503940667 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd go to the uml one
< 1503940684 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hoping that there is one)
< 1503940706 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503940713 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ive been losing channels
< 1503940808 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, thanks for looking that up for me1
< 1503940822 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually a colleague found it for me :)
< 1503940824 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: There's a user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net that does seem to be still getting some traffic.
< 1503940844 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, thank your colleague for me, then
< 1503941017 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do
< 1503941563 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, i wonder if that could be used to write to kernel memory? *Totally understands*
< 1503941662 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1503942396 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503942819 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503945285 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503945298 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relcome to the finish hub 
< 1503946089 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any CSS media selector for monochrome? (This will be most useful in case of printers, although it can apply to monochrome displays as well)
< 1503946517 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-98-39.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503946917 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@media all and (monochrome)
< 1503946917 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1503946939 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what mozillas dev guide mention
< 1503946941 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :epaper?
< 1503946948 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://developer.mozilla.org/de/docs/Web/CSS/Media_Queries/Using_media_queries#monochrome
< 1503946964 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there *are* modern monochrome displays.
< 1503946987 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even @media tv and (scan: progressive) { ... }
< 1503947025 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a test for interlacing too?
< 1503947029 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Determines whether the output device is a grid device or a bitmap device.  If the device is grid-based (such as a TTY terminal or a phone display with only one font), the value is 1.  Otherwise it is zero.
< 1503947038 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's grid selector
< 1503947040 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting.
< 1503947061 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case lynx supports css3 or what?
< 1503947162 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONOHCROME
< 1503947163 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THIS
< 1503947171 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE 70s CALLED?
< 1503947205 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also min-monochrome
< 1503947208 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. for gameboys
< 1503947216 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have 4bit monochrome color
< 1503947304 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric : -moz-windows-theme Requires Gecko 2.0(Firefox 4 / Thunderbird 3.3 / SeaMonkey 2.1) 
< 1503947305 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1503947306 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1503947311 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's what phishers use
< 1503947313 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spammers
< 1503947330 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can present a fake overlay that looks like an actual windows window
< 1503947344 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just query the theme they use to present the most realistic fake window :D
< 1503947446 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's a test for handheld
< 1503947452 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if dot matrix printers count as handheld :D
< 1503947467 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a test for progressive/interlace yes
< 1503947524 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudo-BNF (for those of you that like that kind of thing)
< 1503947528 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bnf?
< 1503947537 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful nude females?
< 1503947546 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backus–Naur form.
< 1503947550 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :D
< 1503947565 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BraiNFuck
< 1503947595 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[,  ]
< 1503947606 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is a sink program then.
< 1503947712 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is htmlx still a thing?
< 1503947717 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what was it called
< 1503947724 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML? 
< 1503947735 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hta
< 1503947785 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this style is getting somewhat popular again
< 1503947796 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there's a XHTML syntax variant as part of HTML5.
< 1503947801 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-xhtml-syntax.html
< 1503947807 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that instead of running code in the browser you run it in a local node.js
< 1503947824 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_(software_framework)
< 1503947828 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- Atom is using that apparentely
< 1503947903 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate node.js 
< 1503947959 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hta was html+visual basic (executed by IE)
< 1503948074 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Mozilla's got their XUL as well.
< 1503948190 0 :archibald__!~archibald@128-73-165-210.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503948247 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think grid and monochrome make sense, although I am not sure why you need to test for progressive scan.
< 1503948364 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think handheld shouldn't be needed either (although tests for some of the features of handheld (individually) can make some more sense).
< 1503948556 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you hate Node.js then you need not use it, although, I use Node.js (but not Electron; I will usually make command-line programs or SDL).
< 1503948678 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate javascript as well ;)
< 1503948740 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that seem a good enough reason to hate Node.js if you hate JavaScript
< 1503948860 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some problems with JavaScript I think, such as a lack of macros and lack of goto, but usually they aren't much problematic
< 1503949050 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503949247 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, eww 'goto
< 1503949820 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1503949824 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good games out there?
< 1503949900 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose depend, what game you want?
< 1503950131 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1503950133 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the problem :D
< 1503950188 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1503950226 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A computer game, card game, or chess game?
< 1503950239 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games rock.
< 1503950246 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh I was assuming computer game, by default
< 1503950246 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ones that are more than one of this; that happens too)
< 1503950261 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really solve the problem since there are multitudes of them
< 1503950302 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shruhg*
< 1503950319 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/uhg/ug/
< 1503950353 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the halloween craze, it's not even september
< 1503950363 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is there another spooky event coming up?)
< 1503950390 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at https://www.humblebundle.com/spooky-horror-bundle

< 1503950407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but won't buy)
< 1503950411 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like the NES/Famicom game "Lunar Limit", which you may run on a NES/Famicom emulator or hardware.
< 1503950808 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh computer games
< 1503950817 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other games I'd need other people
< 1503950821 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't have 
< 1503950838 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't have
< 1503950841 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too sick for that
< 1503950949 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzle, adventure, role playing, jump&run, shooter, strategy, simulator, racing... this still seems rather unspecific so far :P
< 1503951031 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a huge fan of FPS.
< 1503951047 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's gotta by lightweight
< 1503951061 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should run on a ultralight notebook
< 1503951071 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without mouse
< 1503951071 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1503951073 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more racing/strategy
< 1503951138 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503951175 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm lightweight
< 1503951209 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1503951213 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta fight into my backpack
< 1503951218 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1503951220 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1503951225 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it gotta fit into my backpack
< 1503951239 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my brain write fit as fight
< 1503951299 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to go travel for a long time
< 1503951304 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but too sick all the time to actually do it.
< 1503951348 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I waited hoping it would get better eventually
< 1503951373 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I'm in the "fuck it. if it's not better within n weeks I'm gonna pack my things and travel the world" mood.
< 1503951410 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because arguably sitting ill at home somehow managing to go to work and not get fired everyday isn't really too much of a great life either.
< 1503951442 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the most lightweight games I'm currently enjoying are the wadjet eye games adventure games
< 1503951493 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're constantly asking yourself "what the fuck am I working for just so I can spend the time I'm not working in pain (and the time I'm working)"
< 1503951497 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's gotta work offline
< 1503951510 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not have internet everywhere
< 1503951649 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, gog lists spacechem under "strategy"
< 1503951660 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but also "puzzle")
< 1503951691 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, looking at the screenshots there may be a strategy component to it.
< 1503951896 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e is wise.
< 1503952079 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp mockery
< 1503952083 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1503952089 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote mockery
< 1503952090 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1503952204 0 :moony!?@? NICK :ICZEROSMELLS
< 1503952206 0 :ICZEROSMELLS!?@? NICK :moony
< 1503952229 0 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503952418 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spacechem looks nice
< 1503952650 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shenzhen I/O is nice too.
< 1503952851 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.78.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503953513 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TIS-100 in the middle.
< 1503953602 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the middle between nice and nice?
< 1503953649 0 :archibald__!~archibald@128-73-165-210.broadband.corbina.ru QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503953711 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503954094 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :released between the two?
< 1503954542 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503954883 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503954936 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.78.70 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503955208 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :S:I/O is more polished than TIS-100, but they're both neat games with different challenges
< 1503955245 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a standalone version of the konstruktor game
< 1503955318 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this one, http://www.zachtronics.com/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people/ )
< 1503955390 0 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1503955489 0 :mroman!b2c5e4a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.228.165 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1503955834 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... the entire machine goes catatonic everytime I run this
< 1503955880 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we turned off memory limits, so now it is just using up every byte of memory and the system is fucked
< 1503955950 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "this"
< 1503956006 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's a program that, apparently, tries to load everything into memory regardless of whether it fits
< 1503956428 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-98-39.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1503956433 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503956906 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I'd like a standalone Codex of Alchemical Engineering, I think that was the first Zachtronics game I played
< 1503957012 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called spacechem :P
< 1503957040 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah, Spacechem has a similar mechanic and conceit but a completely different aesthetic!
< 1503957058 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: actually it's not too difficult to just download the right files.
< 1503957079 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the one I wanted, perhaps that's also true for yours...)
< 1503957318 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: why the hell can hipchat insert a .gif file, but not a .txt file?
< 1503957347 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is hipchat so stuuupiiid
< 1503957447 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "hip" doesn't suggest "stupid"?
< 1503957484 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atlassian is a terrible company
< 1503957640 0 :zseri!5e86cb81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.203.129 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1503959082 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Did you *have* to post that link? I'm on vacation, I can't afford to get stuck by a flash game for the rest of it.
< 1503959292 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1503959351 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503959351 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1503959493 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1503959616 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can save it for later, when you're back at work
< 1503960238 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can.
< 1503960354 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503960986 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1503960993 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:sentience//sentience is the primary goal of wisdom. wisdom is the primary goal of sentience. \ companion cube//There's cake inside it. Tear it apart, rip open your companion, and extract the delicious, delicious cake... \ kitt//Kitt is the singular of kitten. \ physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in Eng
< 1503961179 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1503961180 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:lish. \ nightstar//The Nightstars are an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
< 1503961194 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentience is the primary goal of fungot. fungot shall not reach sentience.
< 1503961194 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the world of space, or maybe even most cases things are independent. the results of the previous roll has no bearing on the current roll!
< 1503961618 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503961620 0 :MDead!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503961907 0 :MDead!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1503962080 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503962085 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503962119 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503962383 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1503962948 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503963115 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503963140 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503963144 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Due to light pollution, the Milky Way is not visible to more than one-third of humanity, including 60% of Europeans and nearly 80% of North Americans."
< 1503963248 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I don't think I've ever seen it with my eyes unaided
< 1503963265 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/6/e1600377.full
< 1503963354 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In large cities, it never gets dark enough to actually count as nautical nighttime
< 1503963386 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the centre of a city, monochrome night-vision is never necessary 
< 1503963414 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spent all day at the hospital. Had an X-ray and a CT scan and all sorts of things.
< 1503963422 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like I'm OK.
< 1503963466 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503963792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503964187 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf. everything's fine?
< 1503964335 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1503964344 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503964409 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be.
< 1503964454 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503965678 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hrlist
< 1503965679 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hrlist: not found
< 1503965857 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503966322 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be an hsrlist
< 1503966323 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hsrlist
< 1503966324 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hsrlist: not found
< 1503966328 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1503966524 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503967004 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-100-233.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1503967319 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Quit: *
< 1503967368 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1503967807 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1503968754 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1503969404 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1503970003 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503970404 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503975755 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1503978821 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Maybe Later14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52970 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+910) 10Created page with "Hey, this is a very nice language. I actually had a very similar idea quite awhile ago and never perused it. Glad to see that someone has made this. Poking around with the lan..."
< 1503978872 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Maybe Later14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52971&oldid=52970 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+0) 10
< 1503983048 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52972&oldid=52950 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+111) 10
< 1503985347 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1503987166 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503990252 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1503992345 0 :* Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d: PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning
< 1503992648 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503993047 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503993183 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503993183 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503993196 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503993213 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ Taneb: Good (@time Taneb)
< 1503993213 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb: Good
< 1503993214 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Taneb is Tue Aug 29 07:53:33
< 1503993217 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah.
< 1503993241 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, good effort
< 1503993308 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: So now that you're working at your job, you'll have more opportunities to visit CA, right?
< 1503993405 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have more ability to visit CA! But probably less opportunity
< 1503993453 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is an opportunity, without ability?
< 1503993461 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: What is ability, without opportunity?
< 1503993470 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can visit for a conference.
< 1503993495 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice!
< 1503993506 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be at ICFP next week, that's a conference, but it's not in CA
< 1503993520 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :international california of functional programming
< 1503993618 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to ICFP.
< 1503993706 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be harder for me to go next year probably
< 1503993763 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cool idea for a text editor didn't work because of a bug in watch :(
< 1503993766 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it'll be in Missouri.
< 1503993790 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can get a job in Missouri between now and then.
< 1503993793 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'll be easy.
< 1503993805 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, I saw a baseball game last week.
< 1503993813 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was ed in one window and watch -ctd "source-highlight-esc.sh $FILE | nl" in another)
< 1503993821 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, did they base the balls?
< 1503993843 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so.
< 1503993849 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was very confused. I didn't know the rules.
< 1503993867 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with cricket?
< 1503993883 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of like cricket except completely different
< 1503993893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until recently I didn't realize cricket wasn't the same game as croquet.
< 1503993922 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure croquet is a third sport entirely
< 1503993956 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, one which I'd played some variant of.
< 1503993969 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When people talked about cricket I thought that was the game they were referring to.
< 1503994053 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, Alice played croquet.
< 1503994090 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each phase of play is called an innings"
< 1503994093 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this some sort of joke
< 1503994100 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the maths doesn't work out
< 1503994142 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so?
< 1503994160 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The equivalent thing in baseball is called an "inning".
< 1503994190 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like how Americans call maths "math"
< 1503994194 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the same thing
< 1503994203 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call each math a math.
< 1503994204 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short for inningematics
< 1503994228 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toplogy, set theory, D-modules, each of them a math
< 1503994238 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you learn several of them, you're studying maths
< 1503994252 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can agree with that
< 1503994272 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my alternate usage, a theorem is an example of a math
< 1503994300 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also agree with that
< 1503994304 0 :* Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d: PRIVMSG #esoteric :is in an agreeable mood
< 1503994361 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you agree to meet me in St. Louis?
< 1503994382 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot
< 1503994390 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know where St Louis is
< 1503994394 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lousiana?
< 1503994406 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's around ICFP 2018
< 1503994417 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you go, you can't miss it
< 1503994417 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see!
< 1503994437 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's a song called "Meet Me in St. Louis" which I'd never heard until just now.
< 1503994440 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I'll have enough money then for trips, I'm planning to go to Japan in April
< 1503994450 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me whether you read olist?
< 1503994460 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not
< 1503994470 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried a couple of times, couldn't get into it
< 1503994483 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned of the song from http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html
< 1503994781 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503994824 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503995093 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503995214 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503995221 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re
< 1503995477 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1503995513 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503995777 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1503995804 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503996143 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503996747 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503997256 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503997299 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1503997519 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1503999073 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1503999430 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1503999646 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1503999853 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^\o_O/^
< 1503999869 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\o_O/ "
< 1503999871 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I've found a weird bug in umlbox. I'm sure you'll have fun.
< 1503999873 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hutnuhtnaeu
< 1503999876 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hutnuhtnaeu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1503999894 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `\o_O/`
< 1503999897 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1503999917 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^döts mroman
< 1503999921 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`döts mroman
< 1503999922 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrömän
< 1503999946 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ň
< 1503999994 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ǎčďěǧȟǐǰǩľňǒřšťǔǚž
< 1504000019 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ǚü
< 1504000020 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1504000026 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so v is turned into a u when doing this
< 1504000063 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ãẽĩ
< 1504000097 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode lacks voynich symbols.
< 1504000657 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504000921 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurolox: What sort of? 
< 1504001059 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504001122 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Trying to run flask won't work, but only if you specify a timeout.
< 1504001160 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, not flask
< 1504001161 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elixir
< 1504001276 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if you try to run this: umlbox -B elixir -e 'IO.puts("Hello World")'
< 1504001285 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work, but if you specify a timeout, even a dumb one, like this
< 1504001300 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox -B -T 99999999 elixir -e 'IO.puts("Hello World")'
< 1504001302 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't work
< 1504001333 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the -v flag in both gives the same output
< 1504001628 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. But maybe not odd enough to start installing things to try out.
< 1504001632 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at what setting a timeout does, probably something about init's process manipulations.
< 1504002274 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504002561 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504003739 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504003778 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504004017 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504005087 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504006310 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504006449 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504006588 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504007246 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504008142 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1504008147 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:hagb4rd//hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. \ covfefe//Covfefe is how you speak when you've had *way* too much coffee. \ cello//4The 7high 8level 9structure 2of 13Cello 6projects 4is 7inspired 8by 9/Haskell/, 2while 13the 6syntax 4and 7semantics 8are 9inspired 2by 13/Python/ 6and 4/Obj-C/. \ mirth/
< 1504008148 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1504008149 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:/Mirths are juvenile moths. They giggle a lot. \ oklopol//oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid."
< 1504008871 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504009062 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504009156 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504009394 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CENTAUR CHICKEN
< 1504009910 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2153:45ae:1e69:b12a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504010323 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504010579 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504012151 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504012431 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504015391 0 :martinhez!~LEON@197.136.62.10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504015406 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504015553 0 :martinhez!~LEON@197.136.62.10 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1504015570 0 :martinhez!~LEON@197.136.62.10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504015680 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504016594 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504017160 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1504017957 0 :martinhez!~LEON@197.136.62.10 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504018698 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504018901 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504019118 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2153:45ae:1e69:b12a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504019709 0 :mig22!~mig@bb219-74-156-201.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504019720 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504019724 0 :mig22!~mig@bb219-74-156-201.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Client Quit
< 1504019790 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504020010 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504021300 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504021317 0 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1504021501 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504021615 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504021711 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504021899 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504022161 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504022319 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504022458 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504022701 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.85.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504023012 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.83.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504023358 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1504023379 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504023440 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a brainfuck version where cells are 1bit?
< 1504023446 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it turing complete?
< 1504023449 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd suspect so)
< 1504023578 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the size of the cells is relevant for turing-completeness
< 1504023583 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's larger than zero bits
< 1504028293 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolfuck
< 1504028315 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: ^
< 1504028409 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504028675 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504028942 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504029157 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504029226 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1504029492 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there compiler people? is SIMD SSEx instructions should be scheduled correctly? does modern CPUs has several ports to execute them?
< 1504029597 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.83.11 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504029601 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504029633 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1095
< 1504029634 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1095: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1504029751 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504030520 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504030595 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504030862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504031103 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504031322 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504031686 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504032015 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.76.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504033115 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504033125 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504033143 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504033153 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PinealGlandOptic: I think you need to rephrase that question.
< 1504033308 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504033368 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504033473 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504033762 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504033863 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.76.115 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504033933 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504033941 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With tropical storm harvey, Has anyone made a Houston we have a problem joke yet?
< 1504034307 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: OK, common x86 instructions need to be reordered for better scheduling. does the same applied to SIMD instructions?
< 1504034395 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504034500 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504034671 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504034927 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504035525 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504036797 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1504037038 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504037328 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504037371 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PinealGlandOptic: I don't know.
< 1504038146 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504038392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504039169 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1504039179 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504040051 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504040774 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504040952 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504041041 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504041069 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504042741 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504043199 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504043322 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1504043358 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esoOS could handle newlines weirdly: carriage return would reset the cursor to the beginning of the line without moving it down; while the newline character would just move it down
< 1504043374 0 :mroman!b2c5e249@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504043426 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. using arrows to demonstrate CR and LF, abc←def would show up as abc and def overlayed, but abc↓def would show up as abc followed by def shifted down
< 1504043454 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc←↓def would have what we know as a newline
< 1504043460 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504043615 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: actually terminals handle CR and LF like that already; Linux has a translation layer inside the kernel that translates newline to CRLF so that it will work with terminals, but you can turn it off or reconfigure it
< 1504043636 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esoOS shouldn't have such a translation layer, then
< 1504043761 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504043853 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504044266 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that annoy me: "int main() {return false;}" is a valid implementation of true
< 1504044270 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1504044275 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504044284 0 :zseri!5e86d12e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.209.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504044287 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further things that annoy me: brushing my touchpad and parting an IRC channel
< 1504044299 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1504044475 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1504044483 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :does carriage return in a terminal enable overlaying text?
< 1504045255 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504045409 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if it's a hardcopy terminal.
< 1504045498 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember some formatting language (maybe something-roff) having a syntax for bold that's, for bold "foo", "fBfoBooBo" where B is the backspace character.
< 1504045513 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that'd double-strike "foo".
< 1504045571 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1504045584 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual backspace character would be cool too
< 1504045732 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the INTERCAL operator list include one character you'd type as V, backspace, -? 
< 1504045784 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that same formatting language would have "fB_oB_oB_" for backspace
< 1504045790 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/backspace/underline/
< 1504045801 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504045989 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52973&oldid=52972 5* 03LyricLy 5* (-4) 10
< 1504046294 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1504046567 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a backspace character escape sequence that could do that might be cool in an esolang
< 1504046686 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504046732 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GNU less(1) does that, and man(1) uses it for its formatting
< 1504046739 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :try e.g.  printf $'f\x08fo\x08oo\x08o foo' | less
< 1504046769 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does underlining with _ as well, like what rdococ suggested
< 1504046826 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has a setting to make  act as an infix compose in insert-mode
< 1504046833 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested the command, and that does work
< 1504046841 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same as i_^K)
< 1504046887 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that there's also old APL charsets relying on backspace characters for overstriking (the APL charset is heavily oriented around overstriking)
< 1504046907 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it was originally designed around the restrictions of an IBM Selectric typeball)
< 1504046909 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504046937 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the first programming-language/digital version was. it was a mathematical notation before that, for paper/blackboard use, obviously not constrainted by typeballs)
< 1504046940 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :-)
< 1504046945 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly enough, the formatting above doesn't work with strikethrough using -
< 1504046965 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know of bold and underline being supported in less
< 1504046983 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd
< 1504046995 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoOS terminal should support any overlaying with that
< 1504046997 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe ALGOL variants used underline to distinguish between keywords (from symbols), and implemented that with overstrike.
< 1504047002 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a with ^ would be aB^
< 1504047031 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1504047036 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :strikethrough would be fB-oB-oB-
< 1504047061 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504047061 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 QUIT :Changing host
< 1504047061 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504047099 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read at some point that a lot of the punctuation of ASCII was intentionally designed to facilitate overstriking to produce diacritics… some of them are obvious (like c^ for ĉ), but other less so (like c, for ç)
< 1504047113 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and o" for ö
< 1504047170 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1504047197 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's neat/cute :P
< 1504047210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yay
< 1504047328 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to test whether compose-c-, still results by default in ç, but for some reason my compose key now just produces a ~.
< 1504047344 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ASCII code supports six different diacritics. These are: grave accent, tilde, acute accent (approximated by the apostrophe), diaeresis (double quote), cedilla (comma), and circumflex accent. Each is typed by typing the preceding character, then backspace, and then the 'related character', which is `, ~, ', ", , or ^, respectively for the above-mentioned accents."
< 1504047361 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overstrike)
< 1504047367 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :might've been where I read it
< 1504047386 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it does, FWIW, at least for me
< 1504047421 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterstrike
< 1504047423 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1504047425 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if compose key stopping working is synergy's fault. It seems to be doing something a little weird about caps lock as well.
< 1504047478 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/899965577481129984  ← this might be interesting to this channel, since bitmap fonts have been a topic before, and it's kind of in the spirit of esolangs/eso-computing (well, inasmuch as codegolf/demoscene/such stuff is)
< 1504047509 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the idea is just based on https://hackaday.com/2016/12/15/character-generation-in-144-bytes/ (which I credit in the twitter thread)
< 1504047612 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those tiles look sort-of-kind-of similar as how N-segment LED displays (where N > 7) do alphanumerics.
< 1504047629 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1504047654 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense
< 1504047889 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504048338 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504048786 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504048796 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504049048 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk QUIT :Client Quit
< 1504049066 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504050280 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504050500 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504050553 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hppavilion[1].
< 1504050559 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were discussing ASCII and overstrike.
< 1504050979 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...
< 1504051033 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a language where inserting lists into lists is equivalent to inserting each element at the corresponding position?
< 1504051041 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (1, 2, (3, 4)) == (1, 2, 3, 4)
< 1504051193 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Quit: *
< 1504051259 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504051481 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504051481 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: VOCAL CHICKEN
< 1504051500 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504051572 0 :[io]!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504051572 0 :[io]!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 QUIT :Changing host
< 1504051572 0 :[io]!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504051681 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504051761 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504051825 0 :[io]!?@? NICK :iovoi
< 1504051852 0 :iovoi!?@? NICK :iovoid
< 1504051862 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swedish chef goes bork bork bork
< 1504051882 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid program that eats all memory goes brk brk brk
< 1504051966 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rdococ eats both
< 1504052142 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo
< 1504052679 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I'm not aware of any languages, but a naive tree data structure will get you that
< 1504052691 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :re list insertion
< 1504053261 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1504053286 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pair is kinda like a binary tree if you think hard enough
< 1504053960 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: is there a program which enables overstrike?
< 1504053970 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/enables/allows/
< 1504054011 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab⌫⌫yay
< 1504054257 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I don't know if any font rendering really does it these days
< 1504054278 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw.
< 1504054454 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm far from certain there isn't
< 1504054461 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: does your font do combining characters?
< 1504054472 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I mean, you can do a lot with combining characters
< 1504054484 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even make regex parse html!
< 1504054511 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yey
< 1504054768 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how about an esolang with string formatting like that? e.g. "b\Bbo\Bol\Bld\Bd, u\B_n\B_d\B_e\B_r\B_l\B_i\B_n\B_e\B_, s\B-t\B-r\B-i\B-k\B-e\B-t\B-h\B-r\B-o\B-u\B-g\B-h\B-"
< 1504054768 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\B" could be replaced with something like "^H".
< 1504054768 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504054784 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1504054872 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1504054882 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that formatting system is kinda unwieldy :P
< 1504054909 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1504054952 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. how about \b for the special backspace, \r for carriage return, and \f for line feed?
< 1504054993 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good bro
< 1504055044 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1504055045 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504055050 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Lymia
< 1504055159 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1504055163 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. what if \CR was carriage return and \LF was line feed? then the overstriking backspace character would be \BS.
< 1504055201 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering ^M for carriage return
< 1504055270 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504055340 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other idea I had was having reserved variables for BS, CR and LF, and you would use a concatenation operator on them.
< 1504055365 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "abc" + CR + "___" would be an easy underlining method.
< 1504056332 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504057777 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still no italic, though.
< 1504057977 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504058225 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504058703 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1504059218 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504059473 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504059973 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1504061368 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504061617 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504062206 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1504063995 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit. I wish redis supported empty keys.
< 1504064002 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, empty lists and hashes.
< 1504064111 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504064180 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504064600 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504064732 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  int-e: Did you *have* to post that link? I'm on vacation, I can't afford to get stuck by a flash game for the rest of it.   fizzie: you can save it for later, when you're back at work
< 1504064736 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1314)  int-e: Did you *have* to post that link? I'm on vacation, I can't afford to get stuck by a flash game for the rest of it.   fizzie: you can save it for later, when you're back at work
< 1504064883 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504065058 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504065058 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@185.140.54.17 QUIT :Changing host
< 1504065058 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504065413 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? just intonation
< 1504065414 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation.
< 1504066777 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: printf 'h\bh_\bi\n' | less
< 1504066839 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :that style of formatting was used sometimes in fortune files
< 1504069418 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/d7ywqz/create-a-game-within-a-game-using-shenzhen-io
< 1504069929 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : is there a language where inserting lists into lists is equivalent to inserting each element at the corresponding position? <-- perl
< 1504069977 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e print 1,2,((3,4),5)
< 1504069978 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12345
< 1504070007 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1504070007 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1504070091 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504070109 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: ^
< 1504070215 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1504070431 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504070931 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a language where the keys in associative arrays can be any type, including other arrays, functions and whatnot?
< 1504071034 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lua can do that
< 1504071056 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wouldn't really work out because lua tables and stuff are kinda weird
< 1504071081 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504071375 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1504072500 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes scott aaronson would stop mixing math and politics in the same post.

< 1504072582 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the politics ruins the comment sections which are usually so good when there's just math
< 1504072605 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was the maths about
< 1504072630 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest P vs NP proof attempt by Blum
< 1504072686 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah!
< 1504072843 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw if you haven't spotted the latest astronomy rumor http://www.nature.com/news/rumours-swell-over-new-kind-of-gravitational-wave-sighting-1.22482
< 1504073175 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly, it may be that without neutron stars, we'd have neither gold nor nuclear bombs...
< 1504073626 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504073752 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504074364 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504074651 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504074814 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU GOOGLE YOU SHIT COMPANY WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS FUCKING UP YOUTUBE
< 1504074830 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fix youtube, it is fucked up
< 1504074907 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly there are only 4 youtube videos per row, next to abunch of empty space
< 1504074923 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that empty space for?
< 1504075047 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i get six
< 1504075123 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you haven't been selected for a "trial" of their new, fucked, layout
< 1504075207 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they included a "restore old youtube"  button
< 1504075216 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing that shit so fast
< 1504075234 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like screaming. To everybody.
< 1504075396 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1504075546 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is google's new motto "we must secure the existence of out ad revenue stream and a future of huge empty white spaces in graphic design"
< 1504075651 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is literally hitler
< 1504075727 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite obvious
< 1504075742 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be fair, \oren\, that's an insult to hitler
< 1504075747 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Huh? I haven't worked at Google since 2014.
< 1504075761 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504075764 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thankfully never worked on YouTube.
< 1504075769 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: damn it!
< 1504075782 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to complain to somone!
< 1504075811 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1504075813 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this new design was like satan barfed on my screen
< 1504075830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway you should see the -- you know, never mind.
< 1504075903 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: niconicodouga doesn't fuck up their layout every year
< 1504075966 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Solution: Go work at Google, and then you can complain internally.
< 1504076010 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought complaining at google leads to being branded a nazi and fired?
< 1504076056 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what
< 1504076082 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that happened to anyone I know.
< 1504076086 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as google is bad, I wouldn't quite compare them to hitler and the nazis
< 1504076099 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I knew lots of people at Google whose favorite activity was complaining.
< 1504076102 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoolootwo: have you seen the new colors on youtube?
< 1504076109 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you can probably make a lot more money.
< 1504076109 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch youtube
< 1504076127 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoolootwo: well they should be tried in the Hague
< 1504076137 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :my roommate's chromecast has an ad 00:01 permanantly stuck in the corner though
< 1504076211 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a personal goal of mine to get tried in the hague, but hopefully not for that
< 1504076273 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I only recently learned that the hague is a city, and not a building
< 1504076305 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear entry level engineer total compensation at Google is ~$180k/year nowadays.
< 1504076355 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether SV wages will keep going up or stay constant or pop.
< 1504076403 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504076432 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what is total yearly rent and car in silicon valley?
< 1504076458 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure.
< 1504076482 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Car costs aren't all that variable by location in the US, I think.
< 1504076552 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1504076569 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rent is pretty expensive, especially if you want to live by yourself, but I'm not up to date on the numbers.
< 1504076765 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not, I hear
< 1504076788 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is food, and last I was in california, I paid double for gas
< 1504076802 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petrol is so cheap in the US that even if you pay double it's fine.
< 1504076804 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in most parts, 1.5,
< 1504076879 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't fine if you're used to getting to work for 3$ on public transit
< 1504077005 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you work at one of the big silly valley companies you can get to work for free on the shuttle.
< 1504077061 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go to school on $0 in transit
< 1504077084 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with basically everything else
< 1504077095 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want to go home, it's $50 round trip at most
< 1504077128 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504077133 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently walk to work, 5 minute walk.
< 1504077265 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walk home every day. I should walk to work too, but I'm too lazy to walk both ways 
< 1504077793 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, over the past summer, it was 7 minutes from my apartment to the 4th floor office
< 1504077797 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my classes are faster
< 1504078291 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504079075 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504079082 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning
< 1504079184 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504079535 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504080016 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1504080570 0 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504080711 0 :shikhin!shikhin@heddw.ch JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504080734 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :Guest76900
< 1504080808 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1504081745 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504082517 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504082546 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Härdfïsh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52974&oldid=52960 5* 03Mroman2 5* (+48) 10
< 1504082640 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1504083924 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504083951 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504084087 0 :p-!~p@41.108.207.28 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1504086676 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504087153 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504088730 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504089574 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504090221 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504090230 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504092833 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504093045 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504093170 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH! what the fuck is the point of having the list of different parts of the webpage be links that only work if javascript is allowed? no, it's not even in one of those stupid javascript-based rolldown menus. no, it's not just highlighting the link background when it's hovered on that doesn't work.
< 1504093191 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fucking links only work if you click on them. They're not actual links you can select with keyboard. Not even with caret browsing. 
< 1504093257 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're some stupid li element that you can only follow through an onclick event, even though that event is just a javascript that loads another page.
< 1504093296 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not doing anything magical like replacing half the page and rendering it client side from queries or anything. Just plain mouse-only links, reinvented with a bad javascript implementation.
< 1504093300 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1504093902 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else do you ensure that your google analytics code is used properly :P
< 1504095336 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504095367 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: once
< 1504095470 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504096099 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SUBURBIAN CHICKEN
< 1504096360 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504096449 0 :Guest21903!~irinaaaa@host135.181-9-180.telecom.net.ar JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504096569 0 :Guest21903!~irinaaaa@host135.181-9-180.telecom.net.ar QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1504096654 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1504097122 0 :Guest76900!?@? NICK :shikhin_
< 1504097152 0 :shikhin_!?@? NICK :Guest66154
< 1504097168 0 :Guest66154!?@? NICK :shikhin`
< 1504097173 0 :shikhin`!shikhin@heddw.ch QUIT :Changing host
< 1504097173 0 :shikhin`!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504097183 0 :shikhin`!?@? NICK :shikhin
< 1504098421 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098421 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098421 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098421 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098421 0 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098421 0 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1504098453 0 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504098458 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504098492 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504098714 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, is https://unicode.org down?
< 1504098757 0 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504098759 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hehe. that page doesn't use google analytics though. it does use some facebook thing.
< 1504099221 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I suspect zzo38, he wants to finally establish his own character encoding
< 1504099263 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://www.unicode.org/ is down. I had to check archive.org's copy of the HTML-rendered unicode line break rules.
< 1504099287 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wait, what's that a reply to?
< 1504099310 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean he's the reason why unicode.org is down?
< 1504099311 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: unicode.org being down
< 1504099323 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504099323 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504099324 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's a reason
< 1504099325 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok
< 1504099332 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although zzo38 is a good idea, for a different reason.
< 1504099353 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: any reaction to MaRo's spoilers of Unstable (the future un-set)?
< 1504099467 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (Un-icode? )
< 1504102660 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/anonymous/464ba89ac19cab8fd573ab62c21bbb6b << I hate C. (this is my own code)
< 1504102769 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504103483 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1504106552 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck is the "role" HTML attribute? I can't find it in https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/attributes.html or http://w3c.github.io/html/fullindex.html#attributes-table or https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference
< 1504106581 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HTML4 standard, HTML5 draft, Mozilla developer docs HTML respectively)
< 1504106614 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found: https://www.w3.org/TR/role-attribute/
< 1504106934 0 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504107119 0 :zseri!5e86dc83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.220.131 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504107924 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504109999 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504112690 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504112957 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-108-154.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504113156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Avian 5*  10New user account
< 1504113181 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.83.11 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504114916 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504115361 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for translation icon images (used as an icon on webpages to show where you can change the interface or content to a different language) that have a letter A and an あ kana next to each other. Apparently there's another variant of these, which has a 文 hanzi and a letter A.
< 1504115388 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that variant yet. I think I prefer Aあ because that's more recognizable to me, but I'm not sure which one is better.
< 1504115441 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :文A might work better because that hanzi is common (and so recognizable) in both Chinese and Japanese apparently
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< 1504115900 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504116106 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-108-154.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504116282 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504116617 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52975&oldid=52955 5* 03Avian 5* (+158) 10/* Introductions */
< 1504116799 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07FiM++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52976&oldid=47240 5* 03Avian 5* (+106) 10
< 1504117176 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504117614 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish bash had some quoting style that lets you easily quote any URL. But alas, apostrophes doesn't work because the URL can contain apostrophe, and double quotes don't work because the URL can contain a dollar sign which is special inside double quotes.
< 1504117869 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504118235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504118599 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52977&oldid=52266 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+235) 10Added a Whitespace implementation (heavily golfed; pushing 0 with SSL instead of SSSSL, and a blank label name)
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< 1504119576 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1504120280 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.84.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504120356 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504121093 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit...
< 1504121261 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hirdococ, what's up?
< 1504121298 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1504121303 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sky
< 1504121369 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an unexpected pattern of behavior
< 1504121515 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet black holes don't really exist
< 1504122628 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :black holes suck
< 1504122972 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.84.33 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504123722 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504124401 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504125432 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504125636 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504125654 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504125749 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504126415 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504126528 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ, i assure you, they also blow.
< 1504126537 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1504126552 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i just realised how that sounds
< 1504126558 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504126560 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facekeyboards

< 1504126569 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION keyfacepals

< 1504127090 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Robert Mugabe denies he cast an ‘evil spell’ on the vice president of Zimbabwe" like, why would he need to deny that
< 1504128835 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: lol
< 1504129313 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504129328 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504129430 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So some of Autstralia has DST, but they use summer time only for approximately five months, not for approximately seven months like much of Europe and the U.S. does. Strange.
< 1504130157 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504130623 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504130786 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504130802 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504131030 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: do you mean six months instead of five?
< 1504131060 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Australia seems to switch on the first Sunday in April and October)
< 1504131073 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean five months instead of seven
< 1504131076 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately
< 1504131082 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an exact count of months
< 1504131135 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the first Sunday in October to the first Sunday of April is five months of summer time in Australia
< 1504131159 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's just some of Australia, some parts don't use DST at all, which makes sense because they're closer to the equator)
< 1504131160 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really isn't.
< 1504131178 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as close to 6 as you can get
< 1504131187 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(while switching on Sundays)
< 1504131192 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1504131261 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then those parts of Australia have six months. and much of Europe and America have seven.
< 1504131268 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's six months instead of seven.
< 1504131277 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much less of a difference, I can understand that.
< 1504131278 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well that last claim of mine wasn't accurate, but close enough for this discussion)
< 1504131294 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504131749 0 :zseri!5e86dc83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.220.131 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504131868 0 :rdococ!?@? NICK :RdOcOc
< 1504132244 0 :RdOcOc!?@? NICK :rdococ
< 1504132293 0 :rdococ!?@? NICK :RdOcOc
< 1504132345 0 :RdOcOc!?@? NICK :RdococX
< 1504132351 0 :RdococX!?@? NICK :rdococ
< 1504132489 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daylight savings time is crap anyway. they should jsut change work schedules based on season if light matters
< 1504132492 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504132527 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't have to bother office workers like me for whom the sun is largely irrelevant
< 1504132613 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: but it would be much harder to convince people to change work schedules based on season. For one, it would be more confusing because most clock faces wouldn't show the difference, so you wouldn't be able to tell which schedule you're supposed to follow. A lot of timetables and opening hours labels would have to be reprinted, including ones 
< 1504132613 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stickered in very big letters on a supermarket saying "OPEN EVERY SUNDAY 7-15" or something
< 1504132653 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: and it's supposed to be relevant for office workers too, because the advantages mostly present when you're NOT in the office during normal office hours, but at home or traveling
< 1504132661 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/traveling/commuting/
< 1504132718 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still other good arguments for saying DST is crap of course, but I don't think "change work schedules based on season" makes sense.
< 1504132765 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've convinced myself that DST is a good thing at least twice and that DST is a bad thing (in Hungary that is) at least twice at different times, so I'm not sure what to think anymore.
< 1504132809 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree; the 1 hour time shift in working schedule *is* the problem I associate with DST.
< 1504132828 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree with who?
< 1504132886 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the idea that if changing the work schedules instead of doing the DST switch is awful
< 1504132916 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it just wasn't clear if you said you agree with \oren\ or agree with me
< 1504132987 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it still makes sense to use UTC for times that aren't tied to a geographical location or shouldn't be tied to DST, but most human schedules are tied
< 1504133004 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1504133312 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that DST isn't worth the biannual hassle (and confusion about which countries switch when, if at all).
< 1504133402 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :daylight scow time
< 1504133437 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1504133656 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "which countries switch when" is not too much of a hassle usually, because different countries often use different time zones anyway, so you have to check timezones already, and most of Europe has DST switch at the same time (Iceland and Russia and Belarus and Turkey don't use DST)
< 1504133680 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It's a big hassle because the difference in time zones between countries isn't constant.
< 1504133702 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that you can't schedule something to happen at a given time in one time zone and have it happen at the same time in another.
< 1504133754 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1504133803 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you also can't do that when a region randomly decides to change the timezone from now on, which also happens sometimes, often because of political changes)
< 1504134033 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tourism, near the date line
< 1504134118 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: tourism near the date line already haves the problem that the timezones are different
< 1504134177 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what problem, it's by design; people get to do things like celebrate New Year's Eve twice.
< 1504134245 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1504134258 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would be neat to pass a bylaw that in my district, the time zone is officially Italy Time
< 1504134296 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore you would be able to drink after legal close time
< 1504134319 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I was thinking of passing a law that makes the timezone something like six hundred years before UTC for a medieval theme park
< 1504134341 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"drink after legal close time" there are other workarounds for that, but ok
< 1504134379 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would really mess with AoE deadlines.
< 1504134404 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most places we don't have rules that limit when you can drink, but rather possibly rules that limit when shops can sell alcoholic drinks
< 1504134407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the medieval variant)
< 1504134413 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the timezone at the store matters
< 1504134424 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what's an "AoE"?
< 1504134426 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: age of empires?
< 1504134449 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@googe aoe time zone
< 1504134451 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe
< 1504134512 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that reminds me, could you get around a legal statute of limitations by getting a region to use a timezone decades into the past, or around a copyright limitation by getting a region to use a timezone a decades into the future?
< 1504134599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or various exploits related to how old a person is, like opening a bar in a timezone that's a decade into the future so that younger people can drink because they're suddenly over the legal drinking age?
< 1504134610 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just be your own sovereign country outside of the Geneva copyright convention...
< 1504134616 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to mess with time zones
< 1504134653 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah but often individual cities can mess with time zones so it's easier
< 1504134672 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there are practically no such countries
< 1504134690 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: can they? I don't think states usually allow that to indidvidual cities
< 1504134806 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest might be to get some small pacific island nation that is already in a not too common timezone to switch to such a crazy timezone, but that doesn't help you with bars or shops where the point is not to travel far, or legal exploits that are tied to an existing country
< 1504135299 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think the solution to the original question about statute of limitation is that how you measure absolute times doesn't affect relative times like age (time since birth etc.)
< 1504135336 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, but does any law actually do that? especially laws about drinking age?
< 1504135347 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a local calendar (and that's essentially what you get if you pick a cracy time zone offset), you'll have to convert external dates to local ones or vice versa before doing the comparison.
< 1504135365 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I expect the laws to talk about age, not dates of birth.
< 1504135389 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Don't people wait until midnight to drink or something?
< 1504135418 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but they check age by checking the date of birth in your id documents and compare it with the current date. this actually matters because many people go to a bar to drink on their birthday when they reach legal age.
< 1504135419 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you're not talking about drinking age.
< 1504135462 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, drinking age, and similar age restrictions, like when you can buy alcohol and tobacco and lottery tickets and go into casinos
< 1504135528 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exploit doesn't easily work for driving though, at least in Europe, because the rules say even if you have a valid drivers' license from another country, the age restriction of the local country for the relevant category of vehicles limits you,
< 1504135543 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sozzlin' age
< 1504135552 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could only drive in the territory with strange timezone, which is useless.
< 1504135560 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, but the reason that this is the case is that nobody gives a damn about a few hours difference. in this matter.
< 1504135569 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But putting a bar or shop into a strange timezone is more practical.
< 1504135582 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting a casino is even better.
< 1504135596 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it simply won't work.
< 1504135609 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: a few hours, probably no, sure. but if there's at least months of difference, that might matter
< 1504135615 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504135621 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it does work, it won't be due to the timezone trickery.
< 1504135658 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather it'll be because your local law enforcement doesn't care about the legal drinking age.
< 1504135673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, for drinking and tobacco, there are already lots of workarounds like that
< 1504135678 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504135727 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Maybe I can withdraw money from my retirement accounts if you arrange for a time zone a few decades ahead.
< 1504135743 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why the US laws with regard to those are so complicated.
< 1504135770 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, that might work too
< 1504135831 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could avoid repaying loans and paying some bills by moving into a timezone where they're not due yet.
< 1504135872 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Oh, maybe you can write a clever financial contract based on the current date.
< 1504135879 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a much more interesting use.
< 1504135893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I was reading Matt Levine, https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-12-05/blackstone-made-money-on-credit-default-swaps-with-this-one-weird-trick
< 1504135981 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504136016 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lawyer died suddenly in his sleep and was very upset when he entered the Pearly Gates. "I am too young to die, that way," he protested. "Not at all, you are 87 years old." "There must be a mistake, I am only 35 years old." "Well, we checked the number of hours you have billed to your clients, you must be 87 years old.”
< 1504136039 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think this is similar territory as the time zone trick)
< 1504136046 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hehe
< 1504136052 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504136057 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the problem with billing multiple people for the same hour?
< 1504136193 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there isn't one until you die unexpectedly of old age.
< 1504136252 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't that fine only if they share the bill, eg. two people pay half and half of it because the lawyer did a job that benefits both of them?
< 1504136264 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1504136306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, billing someone for an hour indicates that you spent the full hour only in service of them, unless you specify otherwise?
< 1504136359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504136370 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is billing a whole hour for a fraction of it
< 1504136371 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1504136389 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 10-minute phone calls with 6 clients, each pay for one hour = jackpot
< 1504136420 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer: I don't actually know if lawyers do that
< 1504136474 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: hmm, something like that might work, although it is probably hard to do it in a way that is actually profitable (i.e. you don't pay for it with lots of downtime when you can't bill anyone)
< 1504136638 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that might work better in practice is being applied as a high-ranking professor in a university or even two and at the same time working in a research institute that isn't part of the university. It's hard to get more than 24 hours a day that way, but a nominal 16 hours a way is definitely possible, and 20 might perhaps be possible.
< 1504136682 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be hard to do in a profitable way?
< 1504136684 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a professor who works in two universities and one research institute, but it's hard to tell which one of those jobs is half time and which is full time.
< 1504136693 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 hours pays for more than a day
< 1504136743 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: dunno. maybe it isn't, I'm not a lawyer and don't know much about how lawyers work. I have a difficulty switching between projects when I have more than two simultanous projects in my job, and even switching between two rapidly.
< 1504136762 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people have trouble too swapping that way, although the amount of trouble differs a lot.
< 1504136798 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two projects and switching only a few times a week is somewhat managable for me usually.)
< 1504136814 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depends on the actual tasks of course)
< 1504136957 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504136964 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think such double work is possible for doctors two, when they work for a public hospital and private institute or private patients at the same times, sometimes even in a questionably legal way (when they handle private patients in the public hospital, within the public hospital job's work hours or using some cheaper resources of the hospital).
< 1504137011 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, good night now
< 1504137017 0 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1504137050 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: Lawyers usually bill in 6 minute increments, I believe.
< 1504137201 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk
< 1504137776 0 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Changing host
< 1504137776 0 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/utility-bot/pb2cpy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504137788 0 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/utility-bot/pb2cpy QUIT :Changing host
< 1504137788 0 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504138371 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily
< 1504138494 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA!
< 1504138592 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504138799 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504138956 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever wish you had more time?
< 1504139061 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where were you during the blizzard of 2007?
< 1504139273 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less, about yes.
< 1504139279 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a blizzard in 2007?
< 1504139390 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I remember it, there was quite a lot of snow in 2008, something around 18’.
< 1504139458 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that one then
< 1504139468 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with the huge blackout
< 1504139613 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008 the winter that never endedt
< 1504139695 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504139724 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :were there mounds and heaps and piles of snow on your end?
< 1504139762 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. it might have iced over one night
< 1504139775 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not the frozen north
< 1504139785 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it affect you?
< 1504139789 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1504139836 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... probably a little bit more shoveling? I was still living with my parents at that time, and I was on shovel duty.
< 1504139879 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it when it gets “Real Winter”. -25 °C is perfect; your moustache freezes over.
< 1504140257 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504140278 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although right now is just perfect right ~^^~
< 1504140282 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL
< 1504140282 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 302300Z 23009KT 15SM FEW150 22/13 A2987 RMK AC1 AC TR SLP116 DENSITY ALT 1000FT
< 1504140289 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mtear KOAK
< 1504140289 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 302253Z 28011KT 10SM CLR 20/13 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP116 T02000133
< 1504140563 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's colder in KOAK???
< 1504140794 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an odd day weather-wise in London today. Yesterday highs were +28 °C, today +14 °C.
< 1504140806 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL
< 1504140806 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 302320Z AUTO 26004KT 9999 NCD 13/10 Q1015
< 1504140893 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is the last time you played a video game forrilz boily
< 1504140911 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with you.
< 1504141251 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504141266 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1504141507 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1504141513 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:@//@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. \ emoticon//emoticon: ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ grace period//The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma. \ nooga//no. \ os//Os is the accusative plural of us. Alsø a village in Denmark. Ånd a Norwegian spirit.
< 1504141709 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504142934 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i dont get much time for gaming these days either
< 1504143933 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets out some spinach artichoke dip for the channel

< 1504144087 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brings artisanal tortilla chips

< 1504144908 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1504145006 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your thoughts on naked yoga?
< 1504145192 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is such a thing?
< 1504145218 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, of course it is such a thing. All the Things Are. Praise be unto their Inventor.
< 1504145249 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know? is it like, regular yoga with all the yoga positions you can expect, but you're naked?
< 1504147439 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504147646 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ACCEPTABLE CHICKEN
< 1504148501 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/
< 1504149381 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504152481 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504152945 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504153272 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504153360 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504154126 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504154262 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504154931 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504158552 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504159234 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins
< 1504159242 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02grcecoin 06evencoin 13beltocoin 04illarlecoin 07quarecoin 08stecoin 09gtvecoin 02glycoin 06serthesnecoin 13sheddycoin 04trofesostecoin 07tnntleuercoin 08kolmcoin 09colabiculecoin 02interbcoin 06lifyingcoin 13placoin 04hebagcoin 07herishcoin 08larcoin
< 1504159498 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should extend HackEgo to make an ICO website.
< 1504159518 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then suckers will send it money for no reason.
< 1504159794 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504162786 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1504163573 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9
< 1504163874 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504164514 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504165407 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504165414 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin
< 1504166206 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin
< 1504166417 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504166705 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504167610 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504168582 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504168907 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.83.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504169537 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504170060 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504170639 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504170927 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504171386 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504171856 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504171910 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504172717 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1504172768 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504173327 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Skype on win32 deliberately obfuscate its interface by hiding the "Quit Skype" command from the main menu, and by making the window close button silently keep skype running and visible only in the notification area? I think it does, they can't just be that stupid by accident.
< 1504173552 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504173745 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Next time I write a makefile (or similar) for deploying/installing a program on another server through ssh, I should explicitly specify the remote username in it, rather than rely on the defaults in my ssh config. This hasn't caused problems yet, but it's probably better to be cautious.
< 1504173818 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ssh/ssh and\/or rsync/
< 1504175106 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504175911 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504176020 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504176129 0 :mroman!a0556846@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.104.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504178621 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504178895 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504179398 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504179603 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504179852 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504182022 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: VOYAGE CHICKEN
< 1504183322 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504184024 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. I'm trying to override line break opportunities in a word document where word's automatic algorithm chooses them wrong. But calibri doesn't have the 0x2011 or 0x2060 characters in it (even though the first one should look identical to a hyphen and the second should display nothing and have no width) so all I can use is 0xFEFF. 
< 1504184102 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't they actually put characters into a fucking modern high-quality font when they're also easy to draw and implement?
< 1504184162 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe these fonts are too old for those characters or something.
< 1504184271 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calibri's design began in 2002 and U+2011 dates from Unicode 1.1, i.e. the year 1993
< 1504184284 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504184354 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504184366 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hmm. how about 0x2060?
< 1504184386 0 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: told
< 1504184388 0 :rumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504184393 0 :rumble!?@? NICK :grumble
< 1504184474 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: isn't there a soft hyphen in latin-1 somewhere?
< 1504184479 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode SOFT HYPHEN
< 1504184481 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​­
< 1504184490 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that doesn't look like a soft hyphen to me
< 1504184494 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Apparently Unicode 3.2, which came out in 2002, so it might not have been around when Calibri was started but it was definitely there before it was finished.
< 1504184498 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+00AD  Cf  .  SOFT HYPHEN
< 1504184501 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode  ​­
< 1504184502 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+00AD SOFT HYPHEN]
< 1504184510 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be latin-1, I think
< 1504184516 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, huh, it is a soft hyphen, as I discovered trying and failing to select it
< 1504184519 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok
< 1504184525 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, U+0000 to U+00FF is Latin-1
< 1504184541 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is there a reason you can't use U+00AD?
< 1504184585 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that has the wrong semantics. U+00AD is normaly invisible, and becomes a hyphen before a line break when you break the line there. that's for providing a hyphenation opportunity inside a word
< 1504184588 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(U+00AD is equally old as U+2011)
< 1504184601 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, I thought that's what you were trying to do
< 1504184606 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do instead?
< 1504184624 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, I'm massively confused as to why that soft hyphen is visible in my client, semantically it shouldn't be)
< 1504184629 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need a hyphen that's always present but where I don't want to allow a line break after it
< 1504184641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1504184641 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1504184654 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that this is a Word document, I believe there's some sort of "don't break here" formatting you can apply
< 1504184658 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you sue a ZWNBSP for that?
< 1504184660 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :use*
< 1504184660 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the soft hyphen can be visible in terminals or other programs that don't use a proper text-rendering engine
< 1504184668 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this is a GUI client though
< 1504184675 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it seems to be treating the soft hyphen as zero pixels wide
< 1504184678 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that I can see it
< 1504184692 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GUI might not necessarily mean it's written properly
< 1504184701 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc­def
< 1504184713 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, the soft hyphen is only visible if there are no characters after it
< 1504184741 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting choice but a defensible one, I think
< 1504184741 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the font might have a glyph for it that the text engine should render only when the hyphen is visible (when there's a line-break there, or when you show invisible characters explicitly for proof-reading a text)
< 1504184753 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah
< 1504184772 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes sense, the end of a text is always a line-break utility (though in some contexts it might not be treated as such)
< 1504184814 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1504184827 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/utility/opportunity/
< 1504185668 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHY LF is a pretty silly combination as it is
< 1504185673 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean?
< 1504185903 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it might be silly, but you can't really "ban" a character combination for general text. you just have to treat it in some fallback way
< 1504185926 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right
< 1504185937 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might get such a combination when you try to abbreviate some text for a shorter field or something
< 1504185938 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally Unicode would be normalized, with all combinations being meaningful
< 1504185945 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as it isn't, you need some semantics for meaningless sequences like that
< 1504185963 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most programs do sort of handle all combinations in some way
< 1504187275 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504188254 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1504188613 0 :kurolox!~Kurolox@81.red-88-4-114.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504189027 0 :zseri!5e86d6e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.214.228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504189459 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504189701 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504190098 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504190281 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504193410 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1504196195 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504197729 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504198753 0 :mroman!b2c5e14b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.225.75 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504198763 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504198775 0 :mroman!b2c5e14b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.225.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waddup
< 1504200874 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@128.93.83.11 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1504201095 0 :zseri!5e86d6e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.214.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1504202379 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504202390 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! why is the call failing
< 1504202394 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the undocumented stuff
< 1504202401 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a good reason, but I don't know why
< 1504202754 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :facepalm
< 1504202758 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you, gnu!
< 1504202759 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504202829 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a command that by default takes any number of arguments that it will exec, you shouldn't use gnu's stupid getopt that will reorder the command line. you need a getopt that only parses options before the first argument.
< 1504203370 0 :ATMunn!?@? NICK :nnuMTA
< 1504203588 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1504203687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504203764 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was trying to write a simple command that I run under my X session and changes to another virtual terminal. but it seems that this is not possible directly, because you only have permission for that ioctl if a real tty console is your controlling terminal, and it seems when icewm-session starts icewm, it calls setsid and so any process I start
< 1504203765 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric : from icewm can't have the original tty as the control terminal.
< 1504203778 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504203806 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but X11 itself can change to a virtual console if I press a key. is there some X11 call I can do from an X11 program to ask X11 to do that?
< 1504203815 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about X11 programming
< 1504204046 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504204170 0 :mroman!b2c5e14b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.225.75 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jm
< 1504204174 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504204195 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504204511 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504204567 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504204611 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504204813 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504205061 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504205310 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504205380 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1504205555 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-71-242-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504205565 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just use a workaround by starting a program on another virtual console withou X that will do this when I ask
< 1504206366 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.77.142 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504206421 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504207001 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, workaround done as two very simple shell scripts
< 1504207078 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the workaround
< 1504207211 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.77.142 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504207942 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.77.142 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504208413 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504208421 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1504208430 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504208431 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504208572 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bot
< 1504208573 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1504209151 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@188.189.77.142 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504210265 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504210744 0 :mroman!b2c5e14b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.225.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504210865 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504211428 0 :nnuMTA!?@? NICK :ATMunn
< 1504211919 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504211946 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504213674 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504213925 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504214429 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504215272 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1504216476 0 :zseri!5e86d6e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.214.228 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1504216616 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504217457 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1504217472 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504217507 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1504218031 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1504218249 0 :^arcade_droid!?@? NICK :aarcade_droid
< 1504218639 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03JanMakuwe 5*  10New user account
< 1504218662 0 :augur_!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504218790 0 :aarcade_droid!?@? NICK :^arcade_droid
< 1504218821 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504219333 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52978&oldid=52975 5* 03JanMakuwe 5* (+226) 10/* Introductions */
< 1504219380 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52979&oldid=52978 5* 03JanMakuwe 5* (-9) 10/* Introductions */
< 1504219564 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504219696 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? font
< 1504219698 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz
< 1504219734 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparenlty they fixed the new youtube to make it actually fill the whole screen with content
< 1504219810 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I should make my fonts available as bitmap font files
< 1504219878 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have BDF and ttf, but not PCF...
< 1504219906 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1504219920 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/ actually converts the fonts to BDF, I forgot about that
< 1504220091 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xen.firefly.nu/up/2017-08-31_231007.png  hmm.
< 1504220329 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international shrub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
< 1504220352 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1504221226 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504221395 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@104-50-90-48.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504221923 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1504222323 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504222553 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1504222685 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1504222936 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you have a huge underground lake that you heat by repeatedly detonation hydrogen bombs, then get steam power from that heat
< 1504222970 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it works
< 1504223037 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1504223100 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( is this KSP )
< 1504223474 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, just a funny idea i had for doing fusion power with current tech
< 1504223493 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hydrogen bombs are technically fusion power
< 1504223510 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need a way to extract energy from them
< 1504223808 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the explosion of hydrogen bomb would produce pressure wave that would not be absobed by water
< 1504223813 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, perhaps a large plenum filled with methane or ammonia gas would work