< 1501718538 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bugs me so much < 1501718539 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fungot it's pouring like crazy... < 1501718539 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: sometimes i wonder if it keeps it the jury people so close for weapons and everything changes so quick that eight years ago)) < 1501718545 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1501718545 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 022200Z 22006KT 15SM FEW040TCU BKN240 29/17 A2993 RMK TCU2CI4 SLP138 DENSITY ALT 1800FT < 1501718555 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar PAMR < 1501718555 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAMR 022253Z 01004KT 10SM FEW049 OVC060 16/12 A3019 RMK AO2 SLP225 T01610117 < 1501718787 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501720008 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1501722124 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501722690 0 :http_GK1wmSU!~deep-book@119.81.230.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501722692 0 :http_GK1wmSU!~deep-book@119.81.230.146 PART #esoteric : < 1501723051 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1501723056 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:dy//dx = y \ htdh//HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. \ gonad//gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture. \ golf//Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. \ < 1501723057 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1501723058 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:category-helpdesk//category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it. < 1501723262 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501723662 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501724345 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :mo < 1501724962 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mapoles rdococ into complete words
< 1501724967 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1810@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.16 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1501724985 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501725224 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rdococ < 1501725225 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. < 1501725259 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? imode < 1501725260 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501725264 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1501725310 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IMODE - Innovative Multicomponent Drug Design" < 1501725315 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: are you innovative? < 1501725324 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: are you componentised? < 1501725326 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imellode, ybdellon! < 1501725330 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: do you design drugs? < 1501725341 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :belloily! < 1501725370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hybden < 1501725371 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: do you have a severe (or not so severe) case of the UPPERs? < 1501725391 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaif < 1501725400 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501725403 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn imode//imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs. < 1501725404 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: if you do could you suggest a replacement for amphetamines that doesn't increase my heart rate? < 1501725405 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may design drugs. < 1501725405 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'imode': imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs. < 1501725424 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ybden < 1501725425 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ybden daintily hides in her den, fostering dark machinations on warfare cutlery. < 1501725426 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ybden: http://kmcallister.github.io/complexity.html < 1501725433 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1501725456 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest94226 < 1501725495 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To-day I have learned that I should be careful around drugs, lest I mistake them for complexity classes < 1501725537 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: EXECUTIVE CHICKEN < 1501725610 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask yourself "what would Erdős do?" < 1501725922 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? UPPERs < 1501725923 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPPERs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501726097 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a new SpecGram out http://specgram.com/CLXXIX.3/00.contents.html < 1501727780 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1501727876 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear i just heard jaku say bjonas in a video < 1501728065 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?Qien es jaku? < 1501728065 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1501728348 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qgpdqmrzxncccoou QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1501730218 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501731757 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1501731762 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:hertz//hertz (German for heart) is an SI unit equal to the frequency of an average heartbeat. \ nih//NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb. \ rntz//rntz is a classically-trained logician known for his constructive criticism. \ fact//Facts are lies. They are not there. Go away! \ infidel//An infidel is someone who doesn't support the great former lead < 1501731764 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1501731765 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:er. Socialismo o muerte! < 1501732798 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501734511 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dicotomías de rechazo < 1501734523 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Socialismo Y muerte! < 1501735516 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1501735517 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:411) 99% OF USES OF STRDUP ARE ILLEGAL! \ 785) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday \ 1285) I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of. \ 746) i once had a dream when i was told to look after some kittens but they were made of chocolate and i ate them :( \ 878) the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it [...] and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions [...] That's true, you can read e.g. boo < 1501735525 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1501735525 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:ks. < 1501735538 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the context of 411? < 1501735557 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag quotes | grep STRDUP < 1501735563 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1501735581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg cat -r 1 quotes | grep STRDUP < 1501735583 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 99% OF USES OF STRDUP ARE ILLEGAL! < 1501735586 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures < 1501735600 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know too. < 1501735645 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders an alternate tree indexing scheme.
< 1501735665 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The context is 2011-07-22 < 1501737132 0 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501737221 0 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501742192 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501743369 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501743594 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1501743676 0 :Guest94226!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1501743692 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Changing host < 1501743692 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1501745197 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501745231 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501745499 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1501748372 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Excess Flood < 1501748385 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1501748408 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest79676 < 1501749092 0 :Guest79676!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Changing host < 1501749092 0 :Guest79676!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1501749092 0 :Guest79676!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1501749829 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501751750 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501753406 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52637&oldid=52634 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+9501) 10Add Fingerprints blurb and table < 1501753629 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those links are incorrect since rcsfingers.html is only for the RCS-defined ones < 1501753666 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. NCRS is not from there < 1501753730 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if this Btiffin2017 is on this channel though. < 1501754379 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52638&oldid=52637 5* 03Deewiant 5* (+141) 10Link original docs for jvh fingerprints < 1501754661 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please link the original ext_SOCK.txt from GLfunge98, I don't think it's up at http://glfunge98.sourceforge.net directly < 1501754823 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52639&oldid=52638 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+6) 10/* Example of fingerprint loading */ < 1501755064 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52640&oldid=52639 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (-38) 10/* Some well known fingerprints */ < 1501755083 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501755112 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52641&oldid=52640 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+38) 10Undo revision 52640 by [[Special:Contributions/Btiffin2017|Btiffin2017]] ([[User talk:Btiffin2017|talk]]) < 1501755196 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501755250 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry Deewiant, I undid one of your fixes as I thought I made a mistake on the origin. Undid my erroneous edit. ;-) < 1501755951 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52642&oldid=52641 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+613) 10/* Stack Stack */ < 1501756711 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52643&oldid=52642 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+764) 10/* Concurrency */ < 1501757177 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge < 1501757178 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasty < 1501757662 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :salty < 1501757862 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :btiffin: The link for SCKE is still wrong, but I'm not sure if the original doc is available online directly. It should be in the tarballs at http://glfunge98.sourceforge.net but it's less than ideal to link to those... I already asked fizzie about it. < 1501758084 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: thanks for the updates. Page needs a good History section and some nice credits in the Implementation part. Will try and track down and gather up some blurbs worthy of the page. And will appreciate corrections to the guaranteed mistakes that will be made. < 1501758376 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't built CCBI yet, but your mycology kit has really upped the game for the implementations it seems. Grand work, Deewiant, it's nice being able to play and not have things jump and catch fire. < 1501758426 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, and yeah, didn't really expect it or Funge-98 to become so popular < 1501758514 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need some good luck building CCBI these days... D 1.0 hasn't been supported in ages, hopefully at least some of the tools still work < 1501758523 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consistent and reliable toys makes for good toys, worthy of some time in. < 1501758622 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a 1.0 D, but that machine gave up the ghost a while back, might have the archive in a state that can be restored (but, a backup untested is usually borked, right? Just because) ;-) < 1501758665 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my projects for years has been to build a new interpreter in C, starting with a solid Funge-Space library... which has been a work in progress since 2011 and has seen almost no work since 2013 or so. (These days I might go for Rust for the interpreter itself though.) < 1501758745 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coïncidentally, 2013 is when I graduated from university. < 1501758789 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only been funging for a week on and off, but NEED libfunge for embedding in COBOL. ;-) libfunge, someone needs to treat Funge like a Lua and take over the world from within. < 1501758792 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how badly having a full-time job eats your free time, as opposed to school/uni < 1501758871 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I turn 54 in a few days, I still have a final year to complete (my ID started with 82). Might not make it to grad. ;-) < 1501759099 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I don't think the universities around here let people do that kind of thing any more :-) < 1501759420 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do miss Waterloo. I started the day they dragged the last card punch machine out of the Pit and into a museum. I kinda don't miss the 8K machines of the time though, them be good old days only in the sense of, "really? they were good? those old days?" < 1501759727 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :bechocolatefudge < 1501759744 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501759809 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A computer without Funge is a like a piece of chocolate cake without mustard and ketchup < 1501759894 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... good? < 1501759919 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best < 1501759940 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs fresh concepts
< 1501759946 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEAST ON CONCEPTS!!! < 1501760085 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501760086 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :btiffin: About Mycology, gotta credit Vorpal as well in the game-upping, for doing cfunge and actively discussing issues that came up. In a way there's some luck involved in that he did it when I was still available for doing my part in the discussions and whatnot, but still. < 1501760114 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try inventing something with the elegance of Forth with the human friendly syntax of algebra (not reverse polish). REBOL Red come close, but the editor and file system access needs to be part of the language so there is zero brain swapping during development. < 1501760184 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'll likely pester the IRC room when writing up a history blurb and try and pack it with names that deserve recognition. < 1501760207 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1501760383 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My go to implementations are cfunge and rcfunge at the moment. Too much fun. These are all fairly amazing pieces of work, but I'm still leaning to mycology being a root cause of the robustness. < 1501760476 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that rcfunge still had some quirks, cfunge should be solid though < 1501760666 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :fudge! < 1501760704 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main selling point of CCBI these days is probably the interactive debugger, I'm not sure if anybody else implemented something like that < 1501760708 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, rcfunge BOOL unload isn't correct; easy fix (umm, I think - it looked straight forward, but maybe I'm too new); but I want to play with the Tardis so rcfunge will get a workout. cfunge is the default funge here. < 1501760753 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: mustard funge < 1501760920 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will strive to get CCBI built shortly. It would be nice to be able to point to one as the "reference" implementation; FBBI just advertises as 'early, not reference'. < 1501761180 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FBBI is the closest you can get to a reference since it's by the same guy as the spec. Too bad it contradicts the spec (or at least used to) so much... < 1501761222 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way CCBI was used as a reference since at least Vorpal admitted to sometimes just checking its source for how to do things when Mycology spat out an error. :-P < 1501761235 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1501761429 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :libfunge, the world needs a libfunge, something with an init, a go, and a let me at the resulting stack(s) and funge space, simple API < 1501761614 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably write one that works by shelling out to CCBI's debugger ;-) < 1501761702 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately "simple API" may turn out to be not so simple with funny Funge-Spaces and abstraction-breaking fingerprints < 1501761723 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1501761831 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what you want out of it, of course. < 1501761937 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess simple in this case would be low number of function entry points for a make it work mode. And then side functions for deeper mining. Like Tcl, only more mustard-ey. A ten line C file to embed a funge and then 80 meg of API docs for figuring out what else you can do. < 1501761982 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, init and go should be simple enough. < 1501762002 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "let me at it" part where things get tricky. < 1501762029 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS for instance. < 1501762140 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then read stack to get results, and a way to peek into final Funge space. Details on access to running programs would be part of the 80 megs of API. < 1501762205 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still reading up on TRDS before attempting a script, but looking forward. < 1501762405 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, only the final state. Yeah, that should be simpler. Still there's some funky stuff about the stack, e.g. MODE, and Funge-Space is basically a sparse 2^N * 2^N square (or cube or worse) (with N = 32 or N = 64 typically) so I'm not sure what kind of API would be suited for anything beyond "read from x,y" style operations < 1501762428 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a GnuCOBOL perspective it would be nice as CALL "funge" USING script RETURNING answer; default easy mode just returns top of stack cell. "funge-stack" could provide more and "funge-space" just does a get on a vector after the run. < 1501762791 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or range, similar to i and o, and that would make a toy people could brag about; and then you know ignore, except for the odd fan that flames the admiration. < 1501763038 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I added i-like display of an area to the CCBI debugger, was quite useful at times < 1501763058 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all there, just hook it up ;-) < 1501763161 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TRAP CHICKEN < 1501763383 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work with GNU, and asked the mailing list if I could get an alias for brainfuck in the Guile binding. Most of the dev group hadn't heard about it, and thought I was just swearing at them. The goal was to add documentation to the GnuCOBOL FAQ without swearing. Richard Stallman gave me a small talking down to until someone else posted the wikipedia link and saved my rep. End of the day,... < 1501763385 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I folded (and agree), brainfuck is simply not mentioned as one of the possible integrations to GnuCOBOL in any manuals. Funge would be something that could be written down with the expectation that wouldn't offend anyone like an IBM president or Church Lady. < 1501763521 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1501764323 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501764338 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some neat way to get dx, dy in a grid system for a given radius 3 < 1501764344 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only want the outermost fields < 1501764361 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not for(dx=-r;dx<=r;dx++) for(dy=-r;dy<=r;dy++) < 1501764369 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as this will also give pixels that don't exactly have a distance of r < 1501764432 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*radius r < 1501764590 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant; hope to chat again, time to call it a day, and once again, thanks for the updates. < 1501764608 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries, talk to you later. < 1501764667 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [SeaMonkey 2.46/20170120202656] < 1501765746 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I feel like you can use some trig functions for that < 1501765757 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have forgotten how maths works though < 1501765808 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/nPcmCam2 <- something along the lines of this < 1501765812 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is really inconvenient. < 1501767219 0 :mroman!a055e8e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.230 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501768832 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501770993 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501770993 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501771039 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1501771364 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501772241 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501772326 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1501772721 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501773461 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gnu mindset is interesting indeed < 1501773540 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU ease.js is a classical object-oriented framework for JavaScript, intended to eliminate boilerplate code and ease the transition to JavaScript from other object-oriented languages. < 1501773567 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Java Training wheels provides a less steep learning curve for learning to program in Java. The system is powered by a preprocessor that adds features to Java such as a superfor macro and a file inclusion system much like the C language's preprocessor. < 1501773693 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :"superfor"? < 1501773699 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why would you want a C preprocessor in Java < 1501774412 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501774418 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp is not actually that bad < 1501775212 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :|test| < 1501775224 0 :|test|!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1501775412 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :addhns < 1501775497 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :file inclusion is < 1501775521 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way that C/C++ don't have a better way to include libraries, at least until C++ modules < 1501776254 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: http://www.ioccc.org/2005/chia/chia.c < 1501776801 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1501779098 0 :augur!~augur@162.245.20.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501781277 0 :addhns!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1501781992 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1501782051 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : btiffin: About Mycology, gotta credit Vorpal as well in the game-upping, for doing cfunge and actively discussing issues that came up. In a way there's some luck involved in that he did it when I was still available for doing my part in the discussions and whatnot, but still. <-- hm, don't have time to read the context of this highlight, is it something I need to get involved in? < 1501782083 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Only been funging for a week on and off, but NEED libfunge for embedding in COBOL. ;-) libfunge, someone needs to treat Funge like a Lua and take over the world from within. <-- it is/was possible to hook up C-INTERCAL and cfunge with each other < 1501782097 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :All credit for that really goes to ais523 < 1501782115 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : I seem to recall that rcfunge still had some quirks, cfunge should be solid though <-- thanks < 1501782186 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : In a way CCBI was used as a reference since at least Vorpal admitted to sometimes just checking its source for how to do things when Mycology spat out an error. :-P <-- yep, 1) I was a teenager at the time, not as good at programming 2) mycology errors could be really obscure. More often just locking up or sending the instruction pointer out to nowhere instead of giving a useful error < 1501782270 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ah, only the final state. Yeah, that should be simpler. Still there's some funky stuff about the stack, e.g. MODE, and Funge-Space is basically a sparse 2^N * 2^N square (or cube or worse) (with N = 32 or N = 64 typically) so I'm not sure what kind of API would be suited for anything beyond "read from x,y" style operations <-- "give me all non-zeros"? < 1501782313 0 :augur!~augur@162.245.20.162 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501782441 0 :augur!~augur@162.245.20.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501782716 0 :augur!~augur@162.245.20.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501782927 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52644&oldid=52643 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+0) 10/* Some well known fingerprints */ Fix some links. < 1501782940 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cats eye links are broken < 1501782965 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least that one points to the right name now (PERL was pointing to ORTH and such) < 1501783164 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52645&oldid=52644 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+10) 10/* Some well known fingerprints */ Fix links to catseye fingerprints < 1501783208 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you never made any fingerprint yourself right? I guess I did one, in efunge < 1501783371 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52646&oldid=52645 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+182) 10/* Resources */ Add efunge < 1501784021 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Excess Flood < 1501784029 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1501784053 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest67954 < 1501785147 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1206:45b8:4a31:fe:7861:5ed:8fe6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501785945 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can download MIXPC: http://zzo38computer.org/prog/mixpc.zip < 1501786193 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was planning some, but only as vague ideas. < 1501786228 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And no need to get involved in anything, just discussing Funge-98 history. < 1501786416 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: okay < 1501786492 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if he comes back, since he talked about embedding funge into something (COBOL?), cfunge is embeddable to some degree (assuming license compatibility and so on), since ais523 managed to do it for C-INTERCAL < 1501786685 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501786789 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1206:45b8:4a31:fe:7861:5ed:8fe6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501786860 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: True that, I forgot about that. And yes, he was talking about embedding into COBOL. < 1501786924 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lambdabot's here so I guess you can @message him or whatever. < 1501786930 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1501786987 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell btiffin You talked about embedding funge into COBOL, cfunge is embeddable to some degree (assuming license compatibility and so on), since ais523 managed to do it for C-INTERCAL. If I rememeber correctly funge and INTERCAL ran as co-routines almost < 1501786987 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1501787023 0 :Guest67954!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1501787033 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Changing host < 1501787033 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1501787526 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1501787545 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501787707 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52647&oldid=52494 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+1523) 10MIXPC < 1501788002 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have DOS then you can see if MIXPC is working and tell me if anything wrong with it please (including the document). < 1501788101 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52648&oldid=52647 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+43) 10 < 1501788184 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a implementation of MIX in MMIX exist yet? < 1501788602 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501788732 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I have a software licensing question. How is it possible that the boost multiprecision library is distributed under the boost license, yet it can optionally link to the gnu multiprecision library, which is under the Gnu GPL? < 1501788821 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmp is dual-licensed, GPLv2 or LGPLv3; presumably the latter allows this < 1501788884 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wait what? since when is itdual-licensed? < 1501788897 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since version 6, GMP is distributed under the dual licenses, GNU LGPL v3 and GNU GPL v2." < 1501788928 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lgpl allows it, but how can they apply that license? doesn't GMP have too many contributors to change? < 1501789019 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, even with GPL, wouldn't you still ba able to use that option with code that you're not distributing... I guess that's untested legal territory. < 1501789052 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you could choose to not distribute, but boost multiprecision is clearly distributed openly < 1501789188 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501789200 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gmplib.org/manual/Contributors.html#Contributors lists tons of contributors. how the shit did they get permissions from all of them? < 1501789263 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone just randomly pull the license off his without having permission? < 1501789284 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm confused. gmp 4.2.1 (that's somewhere in 2007) was LGPL 2.1+ < 1501789296 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1501789303 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2.2 switched to the current GPLv2+LGPLv3 < 1501789322 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, I checked a few times and I seem to remember it was GPL, not LGPL < 1501789415 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to remember wrong :) < 1501789427 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible < 1501789474 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was always LGPL licensed, that would explain everything < 1501789599 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right about version 1.3.2 (GPLv2+), but version 2.0 was LGPLv2+ < 1501789633 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thank you < 1501789781 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501789828 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems that therer were about 5 contributors when the relicensing happened... sounds doable :) < 1501790002 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fork MPIR ("http://mpir.org/") is also LGPL-licensed < 1501790023 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an API-compatible fork) < 1501790081 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so are MPFR and MPC. good. < 1501790112 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: In any case, there's a legal theory that says that if you optionally use an API then that doesn't make your software fall under the GPL even if therer is only a GPL implementation. It has sort of held up for the Linux kernel afaiui, which led them to make their wishes more explicit by storing a license in the kernel modules and marking many new APIs as GPL only. < 1501790203 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm. maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. < 1501790220 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that that's how law works. < 1501790425 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1088 < 1501790427 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1088: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1501790439 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes... nobody can predict what a court would decide. < 1501790499 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501791322 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo. < 1501792505 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Now MIXPC is available; do you like this? Also, does a implementation of MIX in MMIX exist yet? < 1501792562 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's probably an implementation of MIX in C that you could compile to MMIX successfully < 1501792662 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where is it available? have you tested it with some of the larger programs in Knuth vols 1 to 3, and what assembler did you use? < 1501792707 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello wob_jonas < 1501792708 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is http://zzo38computer.org/prog/mixpc.zip but so far I have not tested with the larger programs (since the books were from the library and I no longer have them) < 1501792720 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else could try to test them though, who does have. < 1501792739 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like to watch jaku? < 1501793028 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ecjcrbqyxzjlubqj JOIN :#esoteric < 1501793401 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a puzzle I got from kmc: https://twitter.com/shachaf/status/892956611576082432 < 1501793411 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can paste it. < 1501793415 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puzzle (amd64 Linux): int main() { printf("data: "); if (fwrite((void *) 0xffffffffff600000, 1, 4096, stdout) != 4096) perror("fwrite"); } < 1501793425 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That program prints some data to stdout. But if you remove the printf, fwrite fails with EFAULT. Why? < 1501793478 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with device readiness. < 1501793514 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, I presume it prints "data: " to stdout because the fwrite has a long enough size that it would overflow the buffer so it flushes what the printf writes first? < 1501793541 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fwrite must fail with EFAULT in any case because you're writing from kernel memory < 1501793553 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What does that address correspond to anyways? < 1501793571 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess it could fail with segfault instead, if fwrite chooses to copy the data < 1501793580 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fwrite's choice really < 1501793581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: If fwrite fails with EFAULT, why doesn't it fail when you add the printf? < 1501793588 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't segfault. < 1501793594 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: MIXPC loads the program from cards rather than binary like GNU MIX does, although converting is possible (if you tell MIXPC to use base 64 instead of the default base 100). I don't know what binary format GNU MIX is using though, so I don't know if MIXPC can read them directly (as a tape perhaps). < 1501793595 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It successfully prints out some data. < 1501793607 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If you have an amd64 Linux machine you can find out for yourself. < 1501793632 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well it can successfully print the "data: " part, right? but it doesn't fail after in any way? like some other error return or signal? < 1501793639 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do, but I don't have a document explaning the addressing < 1501793662 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :search the address on google. < 1501793667 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: No, it prints some actual data read from that address. < 1501793673 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Try tail -n1 /proc/self/maps < 1501793683 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1501793684 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, but what does it do after printing the data? does it scucessfully return? < 1501793697 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does what successfully return? < 1501793702 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fwrite call < 1501793707 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1501793711 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1501793734 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "vsyscall", and it does seem to be the correct size < 1501793753 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH < 1501793770 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lwn.net/Articles/446528/ <-- zzo38 < 1501793779 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some magic segment that is mapped by default for users, in the kernel address space? strange < 1501793786 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will clarify many thing. < 1501793788 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :*many things. < 1501793838 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will read it < 1501793877 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: That's an incomplete description of vsyscall, I think. < 1501793883 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52649&oldid=52646 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+2138) 10/* Implementations, incomplete table to start */ < 1501793982 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason why it fails with an error is that the previous call to printf sets up the vsyscall segment in such a way that the next fwrite call grabs stuff from the segment and throw it out. < 1501794000 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that, it doesn't exist. I think. < 1501794011 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vsyscall segment exists immediately, right after exec. < 1501794073 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: sure, the difference is whether libc is directly writing from there or copying from it. if it's writing, the kernel will see it's in kernel address space and won't read it. if it's copying, the user space can access it. < 1501794099 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part I'm still a bit surprised about is just that there's a mapping in the kernel address region < 1501794099 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's copying in this case. if I read that tweet from the back of a moving car correctly. < 1501794140 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah. vsyscall basically exists iirc to speed up frequent syscalls. that's been passed down from the kernel ABI. < 1501794186 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd imagine that when doing printf, a syscall or two gets dumped in there. < 1501794205 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ok. I don't quite understand why that's needed, but it's plausible enough that there's a good reason < 1501794207 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but attempting to read from it prior generates a fault for.. some reason. < 1501794212 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least was a good reason when it was added < 1501794218 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501794228 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well if you can always guarantee that a syscall + its required data is always in the same place, that's less overhead. < 1501794237 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons that.. honestly I don't care to look up. :P < 1501794334 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an experiment: does a regular fwrite before the one reading from vsyscall still result in the same data? < 1501794339 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: yeah, but it could be mapped in a user-space mapping you create with a fancy syscall or mmapping a device, instead of getting mapped into kernel address region < 1501794428 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52650&oldid=52649 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+0) 10/* Rock Scissors Paper, on 3 */ < 1501794467 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52651&oldid=52650 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (+0) 10Undo revision 52650 by [[Special:Contributions/Btiffin2017|Btiffin2017]] ([[User talk:Btiffin2017|talk]]) < 1501794480 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh. it works. < 1501794489 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :same data and everything until it hits a bad address. < 1501794730 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501794731 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huuuh. curious. a regular call to write means fwrite stops immediately. < 1501794758 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Funge-9814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52652&oldid=52651 5* 03Btiffin2017 5* (-3) 10typo < 1501794761 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps fwrite preallocates a buffer. < 1501794937 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay. change 4096 to 2047. then change it to 2048. we're hitting an uninitialized buffer. < 1501794977 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't include the first call to printf, which uses fwrite, that buffer never gets mapped. < 1501795377 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIXPC and GNU MIX are both including some features that the other lacks (based on my reading of the documentation of GNU MIX), such as, MIXPC currently has no support for breakpoints (although you can still add a HLT instruction into your program to do something similar), and GNU MIX does not support changing the byte size and also does not implement the standard loading mechanism of MIX programs from cards. < 1501795753 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait what? how can you not support loading programs from cards? loading programs from cards basically just executes the four instructions "IN 0(16); JOV *+1; JBUS *(16); JSJ 0" (except technically rJ is set to 0, but nobody actually depends on that), < 1501795777 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just put those four instructions near the end of the memory in the debugger, insert the cards to the reader, and jump to the first instruction, couldn't you? < 1501795815 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can bootstrap to that from basically any startup method their program already provides < 1501795839 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the init mechanism is specified that way, it can be implemented easily in any MIX machine < 1501795874 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, although MIXPC does support loading programs from cards; as far as I can tell from the GNU MIX documentation, GNU MIX does not and instead loads a binary program (which includes a link to the source file, and a symbol table, presumably). < 1501795947 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then you could just write a short binary program that runs these few instructions (just be careful that they don't overlap with the first 16 words) < 1501795964 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose so < 1501795986 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write "START BUTTON" to the disk of that program in a sharpie < 1501796155 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1501796336 0 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501796355 0 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1501796437 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1501796619 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you able to run MIXPC on your computer? If so, then you could try to see if there is anything wrong that I have missed. < 1501796696 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not too interested to do that. I'd have to get an assembler working, get some sort of BASIC that supports TYPE, and in the end I don't care that much about MIX < 1501796717 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you already have written an assembler together with it < 1501796723 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then < 1501796728 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't care enough < 1501796755 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, imode: Yes, the vsyscall page is special in that it's user-readable but in kernel address space, and write() doesn't check the actual page mapping, just which half of the address space it's in. < 1501796786 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vsyscall page exists to use the SYSENTER instruction, I think. < 1501796798 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I understand that. I was just surprised on the first half. the second half is obvious, that's how they implement copy from user easily. < 1501796799 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYSENTER is a little odd in that it doesn't save RIP. < 1501796830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the kernel doesn't have an address to return to when it's done handling the system call. < 1501796864 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYSENTER is a Highlander instruction: there can be only one < 1501796905 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it maps a page at a known fixed address, and the system call ABI is to jump to that page. Then the kernel can always return to the same place. < 1501796925 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1206:45b8:4a31:fe:7861:5ed:8fe6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501796974 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's more of a "many may enter, but only one can leave" instruction. < 1501797025 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's hardly useful to have more than one, I think. < 1501797042 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501797060 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: was my guess correct though? we're reading past the end of a mapped area? if you read 2047 bytes, everything's good. < 1501797080 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the prior call to printf/fwrite.) < 1501797081 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Hmm? The smallest page size on x86 is 4096 bytes. < 1501797090 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that address is page-aligned.) < 1501797105 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: try to read 2047 bytes instead of 4096. < 1501797106 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I think the difference is whether fwrite chooses to write directly from that area, or copy it to a stream buffer first < 1501797116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's what wob_jonas said. < 1501797128 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you give fwrite a big enough buffer it might just write() it directly. < 1501797135 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9 < 1501797143 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501797146 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwrite can do either, or any combination of copies and writes < 1501797146 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode took that harshly. < 1501797155 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do whatever it wants. < 1501797168 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program also behaves differently when stdout is a file, and so on. < 1501797191 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1501797191 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1501797235 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because stdout is by default line buffered or block buffered depending on what type of file the underlying handle is... hmm wait, is it only when it isatty when it gets line buffered, or when it's any device, or when it's anything but a regular file? < 1501797243 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It does include the .EXE file now, although you will need DOS (or an emulator) to use that file. < 1501797245 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501797284 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, that's the other option, but that could be more difficult because then I have to transfer data into or out the dos emulator < 1501797295 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be easier to just run the basic source code on linux directly < 1501797312 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about basic interpreter impls < 1501797338 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have an assembler? I haven't looked in that zip yet < 1501797379 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is FreeBASIC, although the program probably will not work as is, and may need modification. I have also heard of QB64, but I don't know how well it will work with that either. < 1501797395 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no assembler yet. I have started to write one, but since is not finish yet, it is not included yet. < 1501797419 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, but how much modification? does it support TYPE, SUB, and passing typed structures to a SUB, or would you have to rewrite all that? < 1501797425 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is SYSENTER actually used... looks like SYSCALL here. < 1501797430 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it juts the DOS console output you have to change? < 1501797451 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which does save RIP to a register. (x86_64)) < 1501797499 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501797508 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I believe FreeBASIC does support TYPE and SUB and passing typed structures to SUB, but not SOUND, and POKE/PEEK may not work either (which it uses for the display). < 1501797512 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Well, I don't think Linux uses SYSENTER at all nowadays. Maybe it did once? < 1501797513 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501797537 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: But the vsyscall ABI is just jumping to a page. Or something. < 1501797547 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the SOUND is probably not important, unless you use it for timing or something like that < 1501797551 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need to ensure you are using PC character set, since MIXPC uses PC character set for I/O. (I believe FreeBASIC will automatically do this in graphical mode) < 1501797572 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It doesn't; it is used only for I/O unit 32, which is nonstandard anyways. < 1501797594 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEEK/POKE/SYSTEM/DEFUSR are obviously inherently nonportable, unless you only use them to change variables of which you get the VARPTR and VARSEG < 1501797620 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh SYSENTER was introduced for IA32. Well I'm not inclined to check. < 1501797645 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's complicated. there are like four generations of system call methods on x86 introduced at different times < 1501797646 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Then why does the vsyscall page exist at all for amd64? < 1501797648 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It uses them for reading/writing video memory < 1501797650 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very mysterious. < 1501797673 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, that can be a problem < 1501797674 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more modern version is the vdso, anyway. < 1501797698 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vdso38 < 1501797720 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know Windows used to use an illegal instruction to do system calls? < 1501797728 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it was faster than an interrupt. < 1501797735 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't see a vsyscall page mapped here. There's a vvar and a vdso (which unsurprisingly, contains syscall instructions). < 1501797740 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case indeed a DOS emulator would be easier < 1501797756 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'd have to enable console to see what the program says < 1501797776 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hmm, what's vvar? < 1501797778 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have heard about the illegal instruction thing, anecdotically. < 1501797787 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that when I was looking at the code that maps vsyscall. < 1501797790 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: on what generation of cpu was that? < 1501797802 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20041215-00/?p=37003 < 1501797822 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was around 1989. < 1501797823 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"faster than an interrupt" is a bit suspicious because (a) illegal instruction generates an interrupt, and (b) isn't the normal mechanism call gates rather than interrupts? < 1501797830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, before 1989 < 1501797857 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean faster than the interrupt instruction, I guess. I don't know. < 1501797878 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but was it also faster than calling to a gate? < 1501797889 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm still trying to find information, but I'd hope it's data the kernel shares with the process. it's read-only, at least < 1501797900 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the gross amount for handling system calls in general of course, not just that one instruction < 1501797920 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on z80, interrupts take a long time to trigger, since they have to push stuff to the stack, which requires an expensive 16-bit add < 1501797986 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one thing that's available there is the current jiffies value. < 1501797987 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoolootwo: um, the long time there i s < 1501797998 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like ten cycles or something, isn't it? < 1501798010 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess < 1501798042 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on interrupt mode, there's some extra fetches to the interrupt vector table too, not sure how those fit in < 1501798110 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the z80 can't do anything like using invalid instructions as interrupts because there is no distinction between valid and invalid instructions < 1501798137 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: code size may matter as well... an undefined instruction should be 2 bytes; a far call is 7 in 32 bit mode? < 1501798183 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC entering a call gate worked by doing a far call; the offset would be ignored, but the instruction demands it anyway) < 1501798203 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: code size can matter in general, but I don't think it matters in that case < 1501798215 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about the 8008 once and noticed that there were a few undocumented opcodes. < 1501798224 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember whether or not they did anything interesting. < 1501798242 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal_: yes, and some of them got retroactively documented later < 1501798242 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501798256 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there were only, like, 4 or something? < 1501798267 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501798273 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case that happened the wrong way, that is, intel turned them to documented instructions because people were using them and they didn't want to break compatibility; < 1501798292 0 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501798323 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckiliy some much later x86 extensions retroactively document instructions in the good way, when it comes from intel and the instructions can be used in new programs for some special purpose but with a fallback that automatically works in older programs < 1501798333 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salc is the best! (though the aam/aad with arbitrary argument were far more useful) < 1501798349 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :the z80 had similar things, like the half-index register commands, which are really nice if you're running out of registers < 1501798365 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what is salc? < 1501798369 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :set al to carry < 1501798379 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(al = 0xFF if C is set; 0 otherwise) < 1501798384 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... that one isn't documented officially, is it? < 1501798416 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is, they documented it quite late < 1501798430 0 :btiffin!~chatzilla@CPE0c473de9ff81-CM0c473de9ff80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [SeaMonkey 2.46/20170120202656] < 1501798433 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course all those nice instructions are gone in 64 bit mode anyway) < 1501798437 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1501798438 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's something like ld al, 0; sbc a internally, right? < 1501798465 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoolootwo: well, IIRC it doesn't modify any flags. < 1501798472 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, interesting < 1501798475 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a GOOD thing. the instruction encoding space was too crowded, they can reuse a lot of opcode bytes now. there were literally eight pairs of identical instructions there. < 1501798476 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a single byte instruction < 1501798536 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no instruction named SALC is documented in the intel docs. what's its encoding? I'll check what the encoding tables say < 1501798539 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm just complaining because I used to be a big fan of the cmp al,10; sbb al,0x6f; das sequence. < 1501798557 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501798574 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but are those decimal thingies still useful now that we have fast multiplication of 64-bit integers and stuff like that? < 1501798585 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :D6 < 1501798585 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see much utility in them < 1501798595 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the fast multiplication doesn't matter < 1501798621 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: they really were never very useful at all. < 1501798634 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's a lot of baggage the cpu has to support for compatibility. x87 floating point is still supported in 64-bit mode, sadly. supporting MMX can *sort of* make sense for obscure hacks, but why the floating point stuff? < 1501798659 0 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501798679 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, how else do you get those funny 80 bit floats? < 1501798694 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tables don't tell what 0xD6 encodes either. < 1501798716 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like intel documents it, unless it's changed very recently, and I'm lazy to check the AMD docs. < 1501798897 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, sorry, I'm wrong. not eight pairs. only z80 does something such silly. < 1501799058 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501799229 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, all the load m,m instructions for each value of m except (hl) are a bit overkill < 1501799239 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even counting nop < 1501799362 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I've actually seen an esoteric computer that has an encoding where two register numbers (naming one of 4 general registers) are in the opcode but the instruction often means something else if the two numbers are the same < 1501799578 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1206:45b8:4a31:fe:7861:5ed:8fe6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501799581 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: look at the encoding of the sxt, inv, abs instructionshttp://www.megaprocessor.com/architecture.html < 1501799662 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sure, I admit there are some strange uses of the x87 and the MMX, but they're just not pulling their weight, they cost a lot to maintain < 1501799670 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps when x86_64 was introduced, it was not yet time to retire them < 1501799755 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: here's the real story, it was about returning from v86 mode: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20041215-00/?p=37003 < 1501799847 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other related thing I found was about the L4 kernel which used `lock nop` to query the location of the mapped kernel page for syscalls: http://www.pagetable.com/?p=9 < 1501799850 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1501799952 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that makes sense because I bet that v86 wasn't envisioned to be a major, performance critical, mode of operation. < 1501800135 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, returning from v86 mode. that sounds much more believable. < 1501800306 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Quit: *dies of death* < 1501800320 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1501800337 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Changing host < 1501800337 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1501800376 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501800475 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1501800501 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1501800502 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 032100Z 24004KT 210V350 15SM FEW030TCU SCT210 OVC240 27/18 A3002 RMK TCU1CI2CI5 SLP169 DENSITY ALT 1500FT < 1501800510 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too warm. < 1501800516 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs his AC.
< 1501800656 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501800660 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501800804 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1501800804 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 032120Z AUTO 08004KT 360V150 9999 FEW120 23/17 Q1018 < 1501800854 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, too warm < 1501800875 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost midnight and it's still hot in here < 1501800897 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ESGG < 1501800897 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESGG 032150Z 22010KT 9999 FEW017 15/14 Q1001 < 1501800935 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESGG? < 1501800953 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 is okay... < 1501801002 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501801014 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar kgrr < 1501801014 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KGRR 032153Z 18011G20KT 2SM R26L/3000VP6000FT -TSRA BKN043CB BKN100 BKN220 23/20 A2991 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB50 TSB45 SLP124 OCNL LTGIC S TS S MOV NE P0003 T02330200 < 1501801026 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My METAR is bigger than your guys's. < 1501801045 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damned! < 1501801060 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ESGG is Göteborg < 1501801076 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellob_jonas. tdh. < 1501801100 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I don't know how to read these. < 1501801106 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, landvetter? < 1501801110 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wind from 180, 11 knots gusting to 20 knots? < 1501801111 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't either < 1501801133 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visibility 2 statute miles? < 1501801146 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell uses statute miles? < 1501801148 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you in Göteborg? < 1501801160 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runway 26L, 3000 Vice President... no, that's probably not right. < 1501801176 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ESSB < 1501801176 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESSB 032150Z AUTO 14004KT 9999 BKN047/// OVC061/// 15/14 Q1001 < 1501801180 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broken clouds at 4,300 feet with a citizens' band radio. < 1501801181 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read the nice layperson-readable descriptions < 1501801215 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: will go there tomorrow < 1501801235 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1501801255 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one tells me it will be too hot during the night < 1501801308 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it will still be too hot during the next three nights < 1501801322 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably also after that, but that isn't certain < 1501801526 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1501801533 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows life < 1501801548 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it, especially because the major libraries (which are nice cold stone buildings) are closed for summer < 1501801561 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! hot! < 1501801574 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the weather is too hot during the night for an extended time, then I have serious problems with sleeping < 1501801587 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard there are heatwavy places < 1501801590 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, nobody porthelleaued me. < 1501801594 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here tho < 1501801602 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar Katl < 1501801602 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KATL 032152Z 23006KT 10SM FEW025 SCT040 BKN080 OVC200 27/21 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP180 T02670211 < 1501801606 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine, this channel has too many porthellos already. < 1501801612 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1501801615 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PART #esoteric : < 1501801618 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have some of mine. < 1501801620 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tolerate a few days of heat when it's only hot during the day, but when weather is hot for weeks, then the nights are too hot and that makes me crazy < 1501801622 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :warrigallo! < 1501801638 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallopia. < 1501801658 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar 8d4 < 1501801663 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily. your high is the same as mine. < 1501801688 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont consider this very hot for the summer < 1501801697 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be heat sensitive < 1501801697 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: not even an error message? Just silence? < 1501801858 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 is perfect. 23 is too warm. < 1501801860 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was meant to be a metasepia substitute for when metasepia was absent... I didn't polish it < 1501801877 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to remetasepia... < 1501801893 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? metasepia < 1501801895 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. < 1501801915 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks? ddg search? < 1501801933 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not during the night < 1501801938 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddg. < 1501801946 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1501801948 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1501801950 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 032200Z 21007KT 15SM FEW040TCU BKN200 OVC240 27/19 A3003 RMK TCU1CI4CI3 SLP172 DENSITY ALT 1400FT \ ENVA 032150Z 08005KT CAVOK 16/10 Q1000 RMK WIND 670FT 13011KT \ ESSB 032150Z AUTO 14004KT < 1501801950 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :9999 BKN047/// OVC061/// 15/14 Q1001 \ KOAK 032153Z 31012KT 10SM BKN170 BKN200 22/14 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP145 T02170144 \ PAMR 032153Z 30009KT 10SM OVC016 14/13 A3029 RMK AO2 SLP257 T01440128 < 1501802063 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved how my #esoteric neural nets used to produce METARs from time to time. < 1501802084 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the phrase "neural net" should be banned. < 1501802091 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least when not preceded by "artificial". < 1501802106 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like every use of the word "neuron" in machine learning to go away. < 1501802139 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call them layered unit nets instead. < 1501802144 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what if it's a neural safety net woven out of axons? < 1501802162 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a layered unit net? < 1501802170 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes it a net? What are the units? < 1501802268 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501802394 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The units are little parameterized functions with inputs and outputs. < 1501802401 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're all connected into a big convoluted network. < 1501802533 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "layers" typically referred to vectors, not to maps between vectors. < 1501802695 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, I don't think so. < 1501802709 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got "dense layers" and "activation layers" and "convolutional layers" and various blah blah. < 1501803265 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501803469 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.195 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1501803629 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, I have a new layered unit net for #esoteric. :D < 1501803634 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see its first words... < 1501803656 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :29:48:31 the ardelilly the tree wot if denhs. zais on bit's mod treebde. < 1501803699 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well said. < 1501803789 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode is a cyborg? < 1501803807 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attempting to replace imode with an artificial substitute. < 1501803814 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1501803840 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: LESSON CHICKEN < 1501803946 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the net mentioned comex. < 1501803947 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT KNOWS. < 1501803949 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:57 `t (Rist rist-ronats (Quition comode: Comexed out ood sut dirg < 1501804371 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1501804388 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at his hands.
< 1501804392 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :am.. I.. metal? < 1501804513 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal_: are you gonna run the voight-kampff test on it. :P