2017-07-01: 00:11:32 [wiki] [[Magic-1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52357 * B jonas * (+4121) Created page with "'''Magic-1''' is a unique home-built microcomputer with a custom CPU. It was designed and developped mainly by Bill Buzbee. The hardware was built between 2005 and 2006, the..." 00:12:04 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:13:47 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 00:14:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 00:14:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 00:14:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 00:14:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 00:14:28 <__kerbal__> Ok, Integbot is running 00:15:41 <__kerbal__> ;integ 8096373705231173873515698288105814457559349996780213465927102169635143836763371455511239714251901656919412172053510347251766358525837584663686083361012968763343440510359069137201087033274943221529093137894442823663461959335745044107344)](125)](40)](41)](40)~(?({(@()))(1)())(}(+(1)(@()))(/({(@()))(10)))~(?(@())(1)())(_(@())](+(48)(%({(@()))(10))))~(](+(37)(%({())(90)))/(1)(}()(/({())(90))))() 00:15:58 <__kerbal__> sorry, wrong channel 00:19:08 <__kerbal__> int-e: I couldn't get your Integ quine to work for some reason. Maybe I have the wrong link 00:20:04 <__kerbal__> Did you do it in the standalone interpreter? If so, a glitch may be preventing it from working 00:20:21 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:32:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:34:30 `olist 1078 00:34:31 olist 1078: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 00:35:07 Good day. New OOTS + understanding Rust well enough to do a thing I've wanted to do for years in Rust 00:41:14 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52358&oldid=52320 * Kerbal * (+81) 00:41:35 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52359&oldid=52358 * Kerbal * (+0) 00:42:05 [wiki] [[Integ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52360&oldid=52359 * Kerbal * (+0) 00:44:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:57:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:59:02 <__kerbal__> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." 00:59:06 <__kerbal__> I prefer "n00b" 00:59:32 `addquote <__kerbal> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." 00:59:34 1313) <__kerbal> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." 00:59:38 `revert 00:59:39 Done. 00:59:45 `addquote <__kerbal> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." <__kerbal__> I prefer "n00b" 00:59:47 1313) <__kerbal> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." <__kerbal__> I prefer "n00b" 01:05:56 `sled quotes//1313s,l,l__, 01:05:59 quotes// EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ GKennethR: he shou 01:06:07 `quote 1313 01:06:08 1313) <__kerbal__> oerjan: I object to being called a "newbie." <__kerbal__> I prefer "n00b" 01:06:56 __kerbal__: i don't generally use that style of spelling hth 01:13:20 <__kerbal__> you should 01:14:46 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:25:04 i also have principles against claims expressed with "should" hth 01:26:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:26:12 oerjan: see http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/epistemologicalNightmare.html hth 01:28:25 THAT'S IRRELEPHANT 01:28:48 there's a discussion of the word "should" around halfway through hth 01:28:58 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 01:30:52 my haziness prevents me from reading that far, especially since i've already read (at least some of) that before and find it grating. 01:35:25 <__kerbal__> That's not confusing at all 01:37:23 <__kerbal__> " Really? It doesn't even seem that it seems red to me? It sure seems like it seems like it seems red to me!" 01:38:57 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:41:44 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 01:50:45 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 01:50:50 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Client Quit). 01:53:11 oerjan: do you have the same aversion to "shouldn't"? 01:57:39 ER 01:58:05 obviously. 02:01:22 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:30 Just so you know, the upcoming fungot outage is due to a planned maintenance window. 02:08:31 fizzie: you get too far as i could, but we need to get that " video games, but 02:08:42 -!- fungot has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 02:09:17 (And the quit message is because it's running through a bouncer to work around the "can't reconnect automatically" misfeature.) 02:12:42 same bouncer that Gregor uses, it seems. 02:13:02 -!- fungot has joined. 02:13:31 fungot: Are you feeling okay? 02:13:31 fizzie: fnord i've always had a studly soundcard ( gus?) or something. :p)) 02:13:37 I guess as okay as always. 02:15:09 We had a company summer party thing, two people asked about the fungot shirt again. 02:15:10 fizzie: also lisp in general). they were the start of the isr to the right? i.e. is the eip value? 02:15:53 What does fungot need a soundcard for, let alone a studly one? 02:15:53 shachaf: it would get bigger in time and attach a debugger and hack it a bit 02:16:00 fair enough 02:18:03 <__kerbal__> Where do you get fungot shirts? 02:18:03 __kerbal__: it contains several esolang puzzles in it this year! 02:18:21 <__kerbal__> That didn't answer my question, by ok 02:18:24 <__kerbal__> but 02:18:28 I would buy one 02:18:33 you can't normally expect fungot to meaningfully answer your question 02:18:33 ais523: your mind suddenly finds your dumb mistakes. i've never used scheme for software development and therefore know nothing about astronomy? 02:18:45 <__kerbal__> ais523: I know 02:18:52 <__kerbal__> One wishes 02:19:03 <__kerbal__> But, in all seriousness, where would you get one? 02:19:20 there are companies who'll make arbitrary T-shirts for you, I'm sure they'd be willing to make a fungot shirt 02:19:20 ais523: tough to find wooden shoes in portland, oregon. 02:20:00 <__kerbal__> true 02:20:02 <__kerbal__> fungot 02:20:02 __kerbal__: you haven't seen it. i've done quite a lot of stupid in learning, the wheat/ chaff split is being able to load that. page. :p 02:21:21 __kerbal__: ais523: I got a free "print your own T-shirt" coupon from a thing for one of those companies, and used them. 02:23:29 <__kerbal__> ah 02:24:03 <__kerbal__> What algorithm does fungot use? 02:24:03 __kerbal__: i only occasionally glance at c.l.s to remind myself of how they all work fine. 02:24:51 __kerbal__: markov chains 02:25:06 It's got https://zem.fi/tmp/fungot_shirt_front.png printed on it, except in theory the black part is transparent, on a naturally black shirt. 02:25:06 fizzie: hmmm... a minikanren talk but no presentations by oleg? s pages first. eh.) period when 50 of the fnord swastika and the zen ss" 02:26:48 Couldn't fit all of it in and keep it readable, so it's just the babbling bit. 02:27:01 hmm, I've seen that before, what is that code? 02:27:13 It's just fungot. 02:27:13 fizzie: the c you can read the logs first 02:27:44 oh, I see 02:28:30 <__kerbal__> That's actually a really neat design 02:30:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:34:31 I can definitely recommand https://rapanuiclothing.com/custom-printed-mens-t-shirts/ if you need a custom-printed shirt, the print quality was pretty nice. The process they use doesn't result in super-sharp lines, but it also doesn't look/feel like it's a sticker on top of the fabric. 02:40:15 if I did, I'd go local 02:42:07 Sure, that's maybe a more relevant recommendation for the other UKers. 02:42:30 why does a UK company have a web page ending .com? :-( 02:44:09 Hwy, BBC's website redirected me to a .bbc.com URL today. 02:44:24 s/Hwy/Hey/ 02:45:49 Normally it sticks to bbc.co.uk but for some settings it took me to account.bbc.com or some such. 02:46:35 (Thought I'd do that account setup since iPlayer keeps reminding me they'll make it mandatory sooner or later.) 02:50:04 you can have any TLD you want, if the TLD allows it 02:53:01 I like the conventional .ac.uk names, they're often delightfully short. 02:53:24 ox.ac.uk, cam.ac.uk, shef.ac.uk and so on. 02:54:39 I had a coauthor with a @dcs.shef.ac.uk email. Very retro. 02:54:41 my workplace was bham.ac.uk for ages 02:54:50 but they decided to change to birmingham.ac.uk for some reason 02:54:56 email is still bham.ac.uk, though, thankfully 02:57:03 Ours changed from hut.fi to tkk.fi (from the English to the Finnish abbreviation), and then to aalto.fi for the merging/rebranding. Maybe that's fair, can't really meaningfully shorten "aalto". 02:57:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:34 . o O ( they were the same for ages, and then *BHAM* they changed ) 03:01:27 we used to have uiuc.edu but now we have illinois.edu which is annoying 03:02:52 -!- augur has joined. 03:03:01 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:13:53 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:14:35 Sacrifice a permanent that is attached to ~: ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to converted mana cost of sacrificed permanent. 03:21:26 It is the idea. Possibly also: You control all permanents that are attached to ~. 03:27:29 zzo38: now I'm wondering how that second ability interacts with a Control Magic effect 03:28:05 like, if I control a creature "You control all permanents that are attached to ~", and you cast an aura "You control enchanted creature" on it, who ends up controlling what? 03:30:40 It is a layer 2 effect. The effect with the earliest timestamp applies first. I think that the Aura will now be controlled by the same controller as "You control all permanents that are attached to ~" because the Aura has a later timestamp. (I don't know if there is a way using existing cards and this new one to reverse the order of the timestamps) 03:45:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:05:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:35:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:50:45 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:35:20 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:25:49 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:09:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:17:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:27:18 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52361&oldid=52360 * Int-e * (+480) /* Quine */ 09:29:26 @tell __kerbal__ I've added the quine to the Integ page; the thing you tried was a mispaste of a 474 character quine (missing the first 80 characters) that turned out to be too long for IRC after all. 09:29:26 Consider it noted. 09:41:28 [wiki] [[User:Zayne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52362&oldid=52354 * Zayne * (+118) 09:41:39 [wiki] [[User:Zayne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52363&oldid=52362 * Zayne * (+12) /* Interpreters Made */ 09:42:46 . o O ( you can't be Zayne, that's boily's job ) 09:44:40 that's inzayne 09:45:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 09:45:47 noitdoesntello 09:48:22 [wiki] [[2017]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52364 * Zayne * (+767) Created page with "2017 is a programming language created by [[User:Zayne|Zayne]], loosely based off of 2014, it was made only to be used in the year 2017. If the year isn't 2017 then it will er..." 09:48:36 [wiki] [[2014]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52365&oldid=41562 * Zayne * (+23) 09:48:51 `2017 09:48:58 Hello, world! 09:49:45 [wiki] [[2017]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52366&oldid=52364 * Zayne * (+6) 09:50:14 [wiki] [[User:Zayne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52367&oldid=52363 * Zayne * (+60) 09:50:40 [wiki] [[2017]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52368&oldid=52366 * Zayne * (+2) 09:51:05 [wiki] [[2017]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52369&oldid=52368 * Zayne * (+0) /* See Also */ 09:51:23 [wiki] [[2014]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52370&oldid=52365 * Zayne * (+2) /* See Also */ 09:54:25 I wonder, am I the only one who finds this wikipedia UI element confusing? http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/active_tab%3f.png 09:58:05 heh 09:58:37 i do sometimes use that to go to the current revision from an old one. 09:58:57 int-e: It's weird when you consider it alongside the other tabstrip to the right 09:59:07 or from an edit page, or the like 10:00:21 I do use it to get to the current page, but it takes me a conscious effort to recall that even though it looks like the rider of the currently displayed "tab", it really isn't. 10:19:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 10:25:39 [wiki] [[Hardfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52371 * Zayne * (+4354) Created page with "'''Hardfuck''' is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative created by [[User:Zayne|Zayne]] (why am I not surprised) and as the name suggests it is supposed to be harder than Brainfuck. == C..." 10:26:01 [wiki] [[User:Zayne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52372&oldid=52367 * Zayne * (+17) /* My Esolangs (including jokes) */ 10:46:09 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 10:47:41 -!- augur has joined. 10:54:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:13:32 -!- erkin has joined. 11:22:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:22:36 -!- augur has joined. 11:23:29 -!- Mayoi has joined. 11:26:41 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:27:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:29:44 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin. 11:44:06 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:47:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:02:22 -!- augur has joined. 12:05:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:08:10 -!- augur has joined. 12:28:14 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 12:28:24 -!- sdhand has joined. 12:28:47 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest46480. 12:32:53 -!- Guest46480 has quit (Changing host). 12:32:53 -!- Guest46480 has joined. 12:32:53 -!- Guest46480 has changed nick to sdhand. 12:35:45 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:43:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:44:04 -!- augur has joined. 12:48:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:38:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:53:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:59:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:15:18 -!- led has joined. 14:24:12 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 14:30:13 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:30:32 -!- Remavas has quit (Client Quit). 14:31:43 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:35:37 -!- Remavas has quit (Client Quit). 14:41:42 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:43:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:08:50 -!- Remavas has joined. 15:09:05 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 15:12:58 <__kerbal__> int-e: What version of the interpreter are you testing the quine with? 15:13:33 <__kerbal__> int-e: Let me try again 15:14:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:17:36 <__kerbal__> Wait... I see. It's chopping off the end of the quine. Let me try the offline version 15:22:17 <__kerbal__> int-e: Ok, it works now. 15:25:43 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 15:41:14 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:06:40 -!- led has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:07:39 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 16:08:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:15:03 What is the address of the "2017 server"? I made up a implementation of joke program language "2017", but it should need to specify the "2017 server"; currently it just uses localhost but it should be changed to the proper address of the server. 16:15:54 obviously, it has ipv4 address 2017 16:16:31 Doesn't work. 16:16:52 2.0.1.7 is a valid IPv4 address, but I have no idea who owns it 16:17:25 I just tried 2017, although now I tried 2.0.1.7 and that doesn't work either. 16:17:40 too bad 16:17:56 perhaps there isn't such a server tey? 16:17:58 *yet 16:18:01 -!- led has joined. 16:18:07 just pick any server that returns the date and time 16:18:17 some NIST server maybe 16:19:24 What is the address of the NIST server? 16:20:25 129.6.15.30 16:20:56 Thank you, it work 16:21:48 its far away from you geographically, but i think the extra time wasted is in the spirit of the language 16:22:23 OK 16:22:28 <__kerbal__> Are you referring to https://esolangs.org/wiki/2017 ? 16:23:20 wow that page is horribly formatted 16:23:23 give me a moment 16:23:29 [wiki] [[2017]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52373&oldid=52369 * Zzo38 * (+768) Make implementation 16:23:43 __kerbal__: Yes 16:23:51 <__kerbal__> ah 16:25:10 [wiki] [[2017]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52374&oldid=52373 * Ais523 * (+28) clean up the formatting a bit 16:27:45 wow, that was an automatically resolved edit conflict 16:27:51 how often does /that/ happen on esolangs.org? 16:28:50 I don't know? 16:30:10 my guess is almost never 16:30:14 there's a chance this was the first time ever 16:30:35 -!- kapil___ has joined. 16:31:59 -!- kapil___ has quit (Client Quit). 16:59:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:59:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:33:34 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 17:37:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:40:10 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:40:33 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 17:40:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:43:13 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:13:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:15:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:19:05 <__kerbal__> Integ's getting a package system. I'm testing it over at #esoteric-blah 18:19:57 <__kerbal__> if anyone is interested 18:24:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:38:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:50:36 <__kerbal__> fungot 18:50:36 __kerbal__: or something like that, that's an 8-bit character encoding 19:09:02 <\oren\> Happy Canada Day Everyone 19:17:39 Can you answer these quiz of Canada Day: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/canada.day 19:25:01 -!- erkin has joined. 19:28:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:44:56 -!- augur has joined. 19:48:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:50:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:01:35 [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52375 * Kerbal * (+246) Created page with "I think that a subset of hardf*** (the subset not including @ and \) is almost exactly equivalent to brainf***. Therefore, hardf*** is almost undoubtedly Turing-complete. ~~~~" 20:02:01 [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52376&oldid=52375 * Kerbal * (+0) 20:03:04 [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52377&oldid=52376 * Kerbal * (+19) 20:05:15 something about bricks and brains 20:15:58 -!- __kerbal__mobile has joined. 20:24:49 -!- __kerbal__mobile has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:26:32 -!- led has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:27:19 seriously, hardfuck? 20:34:00 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52378&oldid=52349 * B jonas * (+29) 20:34:23 [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52379&oldid=52351 * B jonas * (-61) 20:36:17 Do you know these questions? 20:37:49 I am not Canada. 20:38:52 . o O ( not glorious nor free ) 20:39:11 "i'm gonna make bf harder by giving it more shortcut commands!"? 20:49:04 -!- madgoat has joined. 20:49:44 -!- madgoat has left. 20:57:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:05:33 -!- led has joined. 21:17:37 hyumans 21:17:42 `? hooman 21:17:45 hooman? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:20:22 Before / after: https://zem.fi/tmp/cover.jpg 21:20:26 (Went for a walk.) 21:28:22 is that a flying pig... 21:29:34 Yes. 21:29:40 An inflatable one. 21:32:20 seems that only two of the chimneys were in use? 21:43:15 -!- Kerbal has joined. 21:47:39 -!- Kerbal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:10:01 -!- augur has joined. 22:23:39 fizzie, is that Battersea? 22:26:48 Taneb: Yep. 22:41:38 In case it wasn't clear, the left side is the cover of the Pink Floyd album Animals. 22:45:12 Now I wrote the specification for Unusenet. 23:19:38 -!- sftp has quit (Excess Flood). 23:20:04 -!- sftp has joined. 23:24:14 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:28:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:29:17 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52380&oldid=52361 * Kerbal * (-20) 23:32:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:59:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 2017-07-02: 00:29:03 <__kerbal__> yeah, I wasn't impressed by hardf*** 00:29:09 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:30:22 <__kerbal__> It's literally just bf with renamed commands, maybe a slightly altered input thing and 2 extra commands 00:31:06 <__kerbal__> I think it may be easier 00:31:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:07 <__kerbal__> not harder 00:32:59 <__kerbal__> Has Zayne ever come on #esoteric? 00:35:50 Have to do another scheduled fungot maintenance, sorry. 00:35:50 fizzie: i can't really give you the ' declare' stuff in 30 seconds ( this is the 00:35:53 -!- augur has joined. 00:36:08 -!- fungot has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 00:36:48 -!- led has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:42:59 -!- fungot has joined. 00:43:14 fungot: All done, I hope. 00:43:15 fizzie: ( which is an instruction for being a bad idea anyway :) recursive descent parsing 00:46:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:59:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:06:31 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 01:08:35 ^style 01:08:35 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:08:39 figures 01:08:58 ^style europarl 01:08:58 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 01:09:11 Good evening, mr. fungot 01:09:13 FireFly: mr president, we want to make it clear that saddam hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak and will weaken your commission’s power as a deputy within this chamber, that we should wait for the council minutes specify that the commission will inform parliament at the moment, it is better to refrain from using it. the commission will see to it that the framework agreement because it will be difficult or even impo 01:09:41 That looks like a pretty direct quote 01:09:52 to a large part 01:10:13 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:10:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:20:41 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 01:22:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:23:43 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:26:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:31:17 fungot: Should the ECJ be responsible for watching over the rights of EU nationals in the UK in the future? 01:31:18 fizzie: i welcome the fact that if we allow this committee to adopt? will its meetings be public, as the honourable member now speaking; namely, the new work which we have not asked you not to do this we must have an accurate idea of the extent to which private interests are opposed to this project. 01:33:13 FireFly: I don't really have a tool to decompose these, but it is at least somewhat a composite. For example, the "saddam hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak" bit is from two different places. 01:33:36 Admittedly both were talking about Saddam Hussein. 01:33:36 ah, nice 01:34:04 "Saddam Hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator, a real threat to peace." & "Saddam Hussein has not been so weak for ten years or so. He is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak and who is now incapable of attacking other countries." 01:35:23 Followed by a switch to something else altogether: -- your candidate is weak and will weaken your Commission’s power as a whole. 01:35:46 it worked out surprisingly well, heh 01:40:41 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:40:52 Europarl has a decent hit rate. I don't know if that's some sort of a comment about politics. 01:41:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:41:45 fungot: So what about that generous proposal, huh? 01:41:46 fizzie: i am very concerned that pensioners and elderly people lived through the second part, however, is the subject of forests in the mediterranean 01:42:04 <__kerbal__> fungot: How did you feel about Brexit? 01:42:06 __kerbal__: mr president, commissioner, do you not think that it is a step towards establishing the future european police college will be taken to put an end to the bloodshed. we believe crime must be done without any complexes of an ideological or any other european institution, should be developed in this country, there are three points but i mainly want to mention that we were deeply disappointed that it did not prove possi 01:42:28 <__kerbal__> so... fungot is pro-Brexit or pro-crime? 01:42:29 __kerbal__: i would like to ask whether he perhaps needs an aspirin c. i should like to highlight an incident of a completely uniform system. if, however, unable to allow this, whilst shipowners who can purchase ships at far below their cost price come out on top. 01:43:00 Pro-ships. 01:43:27 <__kerbal__> What other styles does fungot have? 01:43:28 __kerbal__: mr president, in the clearest terms from the commission, although any such external affairs commissioner should of course have delayed our rescue operation as we would have promised and agreed things which cannot be achieved already through regional conferences. i referred earlier, during my visit to london, there was not enough to replace those of the european union 01:43:33 ^style 01:43:33 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:43:47 Not all of them work particularly well. 01:43:52 <__kerbal__> Can I try one? 01:44:46 Sure, there's strong precedent in letting that particular bot spam the channel. (You can do it in privmsg, but you'll hit the at-most-four-replies-in-a-row limit pretty fast.) 01:44:58 <__kerbal__> ^style youtube 01:44:58 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 01:45:04 <__kerbal__> How are you, fungot? 01:45:04 __kerbal__: meh shes not what you'd expect! turning a game? and how much has happened over the last clips there werent hardly any people...its fake? 01:45:10 <__kerbal__> oh, wow 01:45:21 <__kerbal__> okay... 01:45:46 * __kerbal__ sees the dark side of YouTube embodied 01:46:04 That one is like from a total of 3 videos (the data was collected by someone else, and crawled manually), so it can be a little samey. 01:46:13 At least one of them was a plane crash. 01:46:22 fungot: Those pilots did a great job though, right? 01:46:22 fizzie: you asshole i was 19 when this came on!!! lol i dribbled might will be a model. first, i wouldn't even care that you actually spoke when not authorized? stfu yourself slam-mules-ass. 01:46:32 Well, that's very YouTube. 01:46:39 <__kerbal__> it is 01:46:45 <__kerbal__> ^style alice 01:46:45 Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll) 01:46:49 <__kerbal__> oh, no 01:46:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:46:59 <__kerbal__> fungot, what is a jabberwocky? 01:46:59 __kerbal__: " but what's the good of having six legs, my dear, i turned cold to the very moment that she picked them? even real scented rushes, you know, they hadn't any feet. 01:47:41 source texts does FUNGOT use? 01:48:00 s//What 01:48:04 There's no canonical list. A bunch are from Project Gutenberg. 01:48:48 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 01:48:58 Europarl, Enron and sms are freely available corpora. 'fisher' I sneaked out of my former university. 01:49:29 enron has a corpus? 01:49:42 It's the Enron email leak. 01:49:48 <__kerbal__> ^style enron 01:49:48 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 01:50:12 excellent choice 01:50:18 Sorry, not really a "leak", it became public as part of that one investigation. 01:50:35 Many of the styles didn't get enough cleaning-up and unformatting done, so they can be pretty messy. 01:50:43 fungot: Are you engaged in any suspicious business practices? 01:50:44 fizzie: the value of the free world thank goodness we don?t have. swd joe richards, and above mentioned questions on the espeak site 01:50:54 do you think you could add nixen's tapes as well? 01:52:12 'ct' and 'ff7' are fan-made trascripts of the corresponding games, 'nethack' is from NetHack data files, 'wp' is from the Wikipedia XML dump (1% talk page sample), the webcomics are I think mostly crawled from their wikia wikis. 01:52:17 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:52:38 which webcomics? 01:52:58 homestuck, iwcs, pa, qwantz. 01:53:30 Oh, and oots. 01:55:31 google says that this is the only place irregular web comics strips gets abbreviated to iwcs 01:56:36 It's actually IWC-S, to distinguish it from IWC-[something else], but the other one didn't really work at all so I never installed it. 01:56:51 Where 'S' stands from 'script', possibly. 01:56:59 The 'ct' style has generated some memorable quotes, though it lost some of its personality when I fixed a bug that was biasing the probabilities and leading it to get stuck in a loop often. 01:57:11 ^style ct 01:57:11 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 01:57:13 fungot: Can that sword alone stop it? 01:57:13 fizzie: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 01:57:32 fungot: Yeah, it's quite a sight. But can it stop it? 01:57:32 fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...! 01:57:47 nice 01:57:51 (It's still pretty repetitive, there's not that much content.) 01:58:08 <__kerbal__> ^style sms 01:58:08 Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) 01:58:14 <__kerbal__> fungot, how are you? 01:58:15 __kerbal__: da i hav clas), just giveme the total value. create a contact on indyarocks.com 01:58:25 <__kerbal__> oh wow 01:58:29 There's a lot of SMS shorthand in that one. 01:58:34 fungot: how r u? 01:58:34 fizzie: if i start sending blackberry... c u at nyt... 01:58:50 <__kerbal__> fungot is stupid 01:58:51 __kerbal__: just in time to rehearse for the bestpresentation demo. i only ask abt dat piano class 2rw... bt girisha.) 01:59:03 <__kerbal__> It didn't react as harshly as I hoped 01:59:13 <__kerbal__> (I was just trying to get a rise out of it) 01:59:27 <__kerbal__> it's actually really cool 01:59:29 fungot wtf 01:59:30 doesthiswork: hey in arasur:-) 2) 3) pass this to people including me. a blessing. fr. japan is say only 01:59:56 fungot pokemon sucks 01:59:56 doesthiswork: i want to sent mesages. but u'l talk to ya. mery dant rahi? erik needs it 02:00:26 <__kerbal__> fungot bye 02:00:27 __kerbal__: in a party in tarpon springs cuts at chap 2 lor! thank you star i see tonight second show:-) 02:00:37 <__kerbal__> That actually made some sense 02:00:42 <__kerbal__> fungot good morning 02:00:42 __kerbal__: sorry i am in practice. be there in a minute. i go toilet first... where u? starting to become an issue... maybe i stay in xinrou house hibernate.outside wet just for me. happy to help anytime :) 02:01:00 <__kerbal__> "i go toilet first" 02:02:03 I don't think the majority of the people who donated to that corpus were native English speakers. 02:02:27 ^style 02:02:28 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms* speeches ss wp youtube 02:02:36 ^style qwantz 02:02:36 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 02:02:49 fungot: now that's how you speak english 02:02:49 shachaf: at a speed of over eight hundred thousand things to save the city, and the skyline is dominated by billboards, ads like that burn my biscuits, pal, or go to an early gravy! wait, what the heck's going on? 02:03:30 (surely iwc must be crawled from the site itself, it has most meticulous transcripts) 02:03:52 oerjan: Yeah, it probably is. 02:04:04 And I think the same is true for homestuck. 02:04:40 I don't even have the source materials for many of these styles, since I trained a bunch of the models at the university. 02:05:18 I got a segmentation fault when using valgrind. Is it supposed to do that? 02:05:39 A segementation fault can mean a lot of things. 02:05:43 <__kerbal__> ^style iwcs 02:05:43 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 02:05:55 <__kerbal__> fungot: No, I am your mother 02:05:55 __kerbal__: how do you keep doing that?! pointing to the skeletal in some depictions, this transition can take place anywhere, and a killer taipan 02:06:05 <__kerbal__> (no D&D) 02:06:10 <__kerbal__> I guess 02:06:37 Probably not. 02:06:53 <__kerbal__> what is nethack? 02:07:23 what is Google™ Search™? 02:07:26 ^style nethack 02:07:26 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 02:07:27 fungot: Are cockatrices good to eat? 02:07:27 fizzie: pelias: conan cried out sharply and recoiled, thrusting his companion uneasily. " its outer surface will be very pleased if you thought the wizard will give you a gentleman? 02:07:41 what is a grouch? 02:07:43 a game where you play a hacker trying to create a botnet 02:08:05 fungot: Should I zap myself with a random wand? 02:08:05 fizzie: they say that some potions contain a ghost inside! i'm being held prisoner in a linear combination has no really scaring effect whatsoever, ( chapter epsilon), and the lord rose and went forth halting; but there were five tall figures: two standing on the peels. 02:08:26 Being held prisoner in a linear combination sounds plenty scary to me. 02:08:40 Probably something to do with the matrix of whateveritwas. 02:10:06 `? matrix of solidity 02:10:07 matrix of solidity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:10:12 where does linear combination appear in the corpus? 02:10:13 <__kerbal__> fizzie: is it in R2 or R3? I think I'd be ok with the latter... 02:11:05 doesthiswork: data.base, "s*d*g*r* cat". 02:11:22 "To the outside observer, the cat is indeed in a linear combination of being alive and dead, --" 02:11:31 ah 02:11:34 fizzie: https://cmubash.org/?1491 hth 02:12:05 [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52381&oldid=52377 * Zzo38 * (+216) 02:13:41 The "held prisoner" part came from the fortune cookie that says "Help! I'm being held prisoner in a fortune cookie factory!", which incidentally is technically counted as a false rumour. 02:14:25 how do we know that it is false 02:15:15 The five tall figures are Nazgûl, though in the original source material two of them weren't, in fact, standing on banana peels. 02:17:37 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:20:58 . o O ( what about the other 3 ) 02:21:40 [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52382&oldid=52381 * Kerbal * (+444) 02:30:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:41:01 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:55:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:04:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:17:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kerbal * uploaded "[[File:Integ-Logo.JPEG]]" 03:18:02 `5 w 03:18:08 1/2:hppavilion_m//hppavilion_m is the hppavilions modulo m \ compiler//A compiler (lit. “with-piler”) is one who builds piles together with someone else. \ schaf//"Schaf" is german for "sheep". There is absolutely no relation to shachaf. \ phantom_hoover//Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ Я/ 03:18:26 `n 03:18:27 2/2:/Я is the 9th letter of the hsilgnE alphabet 03:20:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:24:22 -!- Akaibu has joined. 03:34:00 <\oren\> in japan cats say "nyan" and meow means you look good 03:34:38 `? cats 03:34:39 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 03:34:41 true 03:49:30 `5 w 03:49:36 1/3:heffalump//A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. \ qdb//qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat \ colour//Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeu 03:49:40 `n 03:49:41 2/3:d to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu. \ wumpus//Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that 03:49:42 `n 03:49:43 3/3: are guided by a nefarious AI. \ protocoal//Protocoal is a bit of a wooden pun. 03:50:05 `? rules of wisdom 03:50:06 unless essential for the entry‘s humor, should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation 03:50:24 oerjan: I guess colour doesn't break the rules! 03:50:38 `` \? color; echo a 03:50:39 ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. \ a 03:57:11 `slwd color//s,$,, 03:57:13 color//Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:57:17 `slwd colour//s,$,, 03:57:19 colour//Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeud to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu. 03:58:18 `` \? color; echo a 03:58:20 ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. \ a 03:58:50 `` grwp -l '.*[^]$' 03:59:00 brilliant \ logs \ piet \ tip \ tmp 03:59:23 `` \? brilliant; echo a 03:59:24 ​B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ̺͌c̑͡h 03:59:33 :D 04:00:04 `` \? logs; echo a 04:00:06 ​I think you might mean !logs \ a 04:00:19 `1 \? logs; echo a 04:00:21 1/1:I think you might mean !logs \ a 04:00:26 `slwd logs//s,$,, 04:00:29 logs//I think you might mean !logs 04:00:49 `` \? piet; echo a 04:00:50 ​Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ a 04:00:54 <\oren\> why is hackego suddenly all colorful 04:01:14 \oren\: because we're checking for wisdoms that start color without ending it 04:01:24 which messes up listing several in a row 04:01:38 <\oren\> ic 04:01:55 `` \? tip; echo a 04:01:57 A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese. \ a 04:02:06 I think you should please get rid of the colours, with the possible exception of the entry for "color" and "colour" 04:02:10 `` \? tmp; echo a 04:02:11 tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command. \ a 04:02:33 not enough 04:02:33 zzo38: they're essential for tip and tmp 04:02:50 and piet, i think. 04:03:17 brilliant is _supposed_ to look annoying. 04:03:25 but i guess logs could drop them. 04:03:34 !logs 04:03:43 it's an obsolete wisdom anyhow 04:04:24 Yes, keep it for piet and if brilliant is supposed to look annoying that too. Remove for the others, including tip and tmp 04:04:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:05:08 it's in tmp to mark a warning. tip would be entirely meaningless without the colors. 04:05:49 ok maybe not _entirely_, but much less visual. 04:06:15 Are tips a common thing in the UK? 04:06:23 I was under the impression that they're much less expected. 04:06:31 `learn Logs: see channel topic. 04:06:34 Relearned 'log': Logs: see channel topic. 04:06:36 oops 04:06:43 `before 04:06:52 wisdom/log//I think you might mean !logs 04:07:01 oh it was right 04:07:23 `? logs 04:07:24 ​I think you might mean !logs 04:07:31 `? log 04:07:33 Logs: see channel topic. 04:07:36 `forget logs 04:07:38 Forget what? 04:09:48 `` grwp -l '[^]*$' 04:09:50 brilliant \ tip 04:09:58 hm 04:10:10 `` cat -v wisdom/tip 04:10:11 A tip is ^C0,3[ $ ]^C if you're American, ^C12[ M-BM-# ]^C if you're British, and if you're Japanese. 04:11:06 `slwd tip//s, if, if, 04:11:07 tip//A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese. 04:11:16 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:11:47 `slwd brilliant//s,$,, 04:11:49 brilliant//B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ͌ 04:12:10 it doesn't matter because it's obviously too long, but that makes the grwp clean. 04:12:16 `` grwp -l '[^]*$' 04:12:17 tip 04:12:37 oh 04:12:41 missed /g 04:12:52 `slwd tip//s, if, if,g 04:12:54 tip//A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese. 04:12:59 `` grwp -l '[^]*$' 04:13:00 No output. 04:13:03 THAR 04:13:32 shachaf: now all wisdoms are `5 compliant hth 04:14:13 `wisdom ngevd 04:14:14 ngevd//ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also t​swett‼ 04:15:23 that seems tricky to "fix" 04:15:56 (as in, can't spout an infinite file either) 04:25:10 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:10:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:14:57 `5 w 05:15:03 1/2:marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. \ erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability. \ mips//MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store 05:15:15 `n 05:15:16 2/2:a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ log//Logs: see channel topic. 05:16:11 `cwlprits erlang 05:16:19 oerjän Sgëo 05:16:44 `dowg mips 05:16:51 4034:2013-11-20 learn MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ 4033:2013-11-20 learn MIPS Is Popular In Schools. 05:17:26 `slwd mips//sSchoolsSingaporeS 05:17:28 mips//MIPS Is Popular in Singapore. 05:26:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:50:37 `slwd mips//sPopularProhibitedP 05:50:39 mips//MIPS Is Prohibited in Singapore. 06:08:03 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:16:38 Cale: Did you invent your fancy better-than-SQL query language yet? 06:16:56 shachaf: not yet, no 06:17:10 What do you think it would be like? 06:17:15 shachaf: Though Ryan's been working on some cool stuff, and I'm excited to see how that turns out 06:17:30 Based on relations or something else? 06:17:46 He's using Conal's constrained categories stuff to translate nearly arbitrary Haskell code into SQL queries 06:18:27 SQL is simultaneously remarkably expressive and frustratingly unexpressive. 06:18:59 With the hope being that we can avoid our current issue of needing to write everything twice: once in Haskell to filter a bunch of Maps and once in SQL to pull stuff out of the DB 06:19:24 That's good, but I care about query languages in a cross-language way. 06:19:40 I don't think all code should be in Haskell. 06:19:59 I only think almost all code should be in Haskell 06:20:44 Cale: Maybe you should go work for Target with conal and all the Haskell people there. 06:21:01 Maybe, but Obsidian is pretty nice too 06:50:52 Cale, what do Obsidian do? Unless you're, like, working in an Elder Scrolls game, which is cool too I guess 06:54:36 Taneb: Obsidian Systems -- we build web and mobile applications for various clients, entirely in Haskell, and using Reflex and Reflex-DOM. 06:57:44 Taneb: maybe you should work at target hth 07:02:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Alas.). 07:03:06 shachaf, does Target write any Haskell in Europe 07:03:25 Cale, that sounds pretty cool! 07:03:31 I think they have various remote employees using Haskell, including one in India? 07:04:05 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:06:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:12:29 . o O ( is shikhin that employee ) 07:25:40 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:43:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:08:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:53:36 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:08:22 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:14:05 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 09:47:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:32:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:34:51 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 10:34:55 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:37:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 10:41:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:42:43 -!- augur has joined. 10:47:03 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:52:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 11:07:21 -!- augur has joined. 11:10:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:10:56 -!- augur has joined. 11:31:22 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:31:56 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 11:33:24 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:33:52 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:36:17 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 11:36:29 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 12:02:02 -!- erkin has joined. 12:13:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:16:51 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:20:41 -!- __kerbal___ has joined. 12:22:39 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:36:49 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:42:46 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:43:10 -!- __kerbal___ has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:43:38 <__kerbal__> hi 12:49:44 -!- boily has joined. 12:49:59 `w 12:50:00 potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit. 12:56:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:00:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:07:21 helloily 13:07:46 did you have a good canadia day 13:07:57 quinthellopia! 13:09:08 long live the Queen, our PM (Photogenic Minister), mapoles, and plein d'affaires de même! 13:10:51 that idiom seems hard to translate 13:11:29 “and lots of things like that”. 13:12:14 oh. Canada! 13:12:21 <__kerbal__> it sounds like "lots of the affairs of memes." I didn't know that memes had things to do 13:13:04 google translated it as "same business" 13:13:23 __kerbello__. 13:13:41 <__kerbal__> bo-hi-ly 13:14:12 did u have fireworks? 13:14:33 it was quite rainy. there may have been fireworks somewhere? 13:14:40 <__kerbal__> In the US, actually 13:14:41 sesquicentennially? 13:14:50 <__kerbal__> We had fireworks yesterday 13:15:00 <__kerbal__> for our independence day 13:15:12 well good for you 13:15:21 <__kerbal__> but also apparently for canada day 13:16:09 <__kerbal__> Maybe the fireworks planners were evil Canadians trying to take over the municipal government 13:16:20 we ain't evil, eh. 13:16:28 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 13:16:51 <__kerbal__> poutine seems like a diabolical attempt to make people obese, from what I hear 13:17:21 I am the very model of a photogenic minister, / I've information ominous, mysterious, and sinister, 13:18:14 __kerbal__: it's tasty, makes you happy, and best enjoyed at 3am! 13:18:17 helloochaf ♪ 13:18:50 <__kerbal__> I've actually never tried it. 13:19:26 I don't know enough about Canadian politics to make a good Trudeau song. 13:19:59 `? limerick 13:20:00 limerick? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:20:32 But you can make a rhyme with "administer", and maybe also use "sinister" to refer to his political leanings. 13:23:16 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:23:23 -!- Trpger has joined. 13:27:04 and fenester to describe one possible method of assassination 13:28:11 -!- Trpger has quit (Quit: Pal Bot,¶ÀÓеÄƵµÀ±£ïÚ¹¦ÄÜÈÃÄã¹ý×ãÀÏ´óñ«). 13:38:43 <__kerbal__> As part of the upcoming Integ 1.3 release, Integ now features a standard library! 13:40:44 As a poetry form, you must know it; / You're nearly a limerick poet. / But if you are a cheater, / and don't fit the meter, / You're gonna blow it. 13:44:09 I guess s/you are/you're/ 13:44:22 int-e: y/n 13:58:35 Could use some touch ups. 13:58:39 But I'm going to sleep. 14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:11:47 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:13:40 -!- erkin has joined. 14:35:39 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:54:22 -!- erkin has joined. 15:12:22 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:23:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PICK CHICKEN). 15:27:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:30:29 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kerbal * uploaded "[[File:Integ-Logo1.jpeg]]" 15:31:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:31:32 -!- Remavas-3 has joined. 15:32:48 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:37:45 -!- Remavas-3 has changed nick to Remavas. 15:46:18 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52385&oldid=52380 * Kerbal * (+27) 16:45:42 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:03:37 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:08:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:30:26 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 17:32:01 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:44:16 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:48:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 18:26:24 < oerjan> [02:12:29] . o O ( is shikhin that employee ) <- /me blinks. 18:31:58 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:39:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:41:00 <* Taneb> is in Cambridge 18:41:56 * alercah is in London 18:43:07 That's closer to me than has previously been the case! 18:43:49 yes! 18:44:23 only briefly though 19:02:37 [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52386&oldid=52215 * Enoua5 * (+2285) Added FFB examples 19:08:30 Do you like my design of Unusenet? 19:11:11 What kind of NNTP server softwares can you suggest using? 19:12:15 (It is possible for a NNTP server to implement both Usenet and Unusenet, because there are no namespace collisions.) 19:19:01 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:22:24 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:27:49 <__kerbal__> wob_jonas: Integbot is on. If you want, I can should you op definitions and the new package system 19:27:55 <__kerbal__> show 19:42:46 -!- erkin has joined. 19:44:46 ) - 19:56:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:48 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:18:07 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 20:20:52 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:23:07 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Kerbal * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Integ-Logo1.jpeg]]": Smaller 20:25:04 Cale: hey, I thought I was the one creating the fancy better-than-SQL query language. :D 20:25:13 I don't care who creates it; I just care that it be created. 20:25:46 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:25:54 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52388&oldid=52385 * Kerbal * (+11) 20:26:45 <__kerbal__> What do you think about the logo? 20:27:30 Btw, the week of July 3 is an odd week. 20:31:37 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 20:40:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:41:47 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52389&oldid=52388 * Kerbal * (+1869) Added info for 1.3 20:52:37 <\oren\> Germany scorexd 20:53:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:54:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:12:19 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:16:35 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:20:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:29:53 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:34:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:43:45 Warrigal: I'm not actually working on it actively, but it is something on my mind 21:45:40 Warrigal: One of the main things I want is that it should be able to handle sum types nicely (especially sums of other tables in the DB). 21:46:34 Warrigal: i.e. I want to be able to have a column which refers to a record of table A, B, or C, and we know which, and the query language should let me pattern match / case on that. 21:47:12 Cale: Or do you want arbitrary ADTs in your database? 21:47:58 Arbitrary algebraic data types would be nice, but I can live without recursion if it's too hard to do efficiently. 21:48:54 and if you can do sum types like that, then doing the non-recursive part of ADTs is doable 21:49:39 Do you just want least fixed points or also greatest fixed points? 21:49:57 least 21:50:37 Actually, if you want to go crazy, a really nice idea I had was a database whose rows were dependent telescopes 21:50:55 So the type of each subsequent column can depend on the values of the preceding columns 21:51:03 But that's probably not easy 21:51:16 As an arbitrary function of the preceding columns? 21:51:35 Well, that's to be determined 21:55:28 Warrigal: The other thing I really want is for applications to register a collection of queries with the DB, and whenever a transaction commits which would affect the result of a registered query, the application will receive an update with the changes. 21:56:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:56:22 Ideally, the DB would do a bunch of stuff as the queries were registered to optimise the task of figuring out which registered queries are affected by a given commit. 21:58:13 But the reason I want that is that then we could use an FRP system to deal with querying the database and propagating the changes that come back to everything they influence. It would clean up our application backends a lot. 21:58:46 What is your application again? 21:58:57 Several different web and mobile applications 21:58:59 "Software solutions custom-built to suit your needs." 21:59:23 One is a sort of competitor to slack with a bunch of additional features 21:59:24 Cale: You should tell whoever is in charge of https://obsidian.systems/ that autoplaying a sound when I go on your web page is really annoying. 22:01:41 Well, I'll tell them myself. 22:02:18 Cale: I want to make a web application. 22:02:22 Should I do it in Haskell? 22:03:50 I thought a web application should be done in HTML? 22:04:42 I mean the server side of it. 22:04:54 But it might also involve JavaScript, or a language that compiles to JavaScript. 22:06:07 shachaf: Sure. 22:06:21 I also highly recommend checking out reflex-dom :) 22:07:46 O, well, there is many possibilities, including C, PHP, JavaScript, SQL, Perl, Haskell, etc. For client-side should need HTML, possibly with CSS and/or JavaScript also used if needed for this application. However, I think many thing should not need web application at all, in my opinion 22:07:56 With reflex-dom, you don't actually need HTML :) 22:08:32 Well, at least, not more than a stub which loads the JS code 22:08:48 Your application (which is written in Haskell and compiled to Javascript) controls the contents of the DOM 22:09:28 You still use HTML tags and such, but you don't necessarily render any HTML to be parsed by the browser. 22:10:15 There is a mode of operation for that though -- so that you can render static stuff on the backend (in native code) and deliver it to the frontend to be used before the JS gets loaded. 22:10:34 You shouldn't do that; the server should generate all of the HTML content and sent directly to the client. This is only for content that is static to the client though; for some cases you will need dynamic content, in which case you should use a script to generate it instead. For most things though you should provide static content if possible (for some applications this won't work though). 22:10:38 Still, you don't actually have to write HTML yourself then :) 22:10:55 Cale: Well, I want the content to be indexed by search engines, of course. 22:10:57 However, you may wish to provide not only HTML interface but also perhaps JSON interface, in order if you want to write your own front-end. 22:11:08 Well, most of our applications are single page applications which mostly communicate with a backend via websockets. 22:11:10 It's not quite that much of an application that it doesn't have text to be searched. 22:11:22 Yeah 22:12:02 So reflex-dom uses ghcjs? 22:12:05 yeah 22:12:15 I suspect the current state of ghcjs introduces unacceptable overhead. 22:12:27 https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform is a good way to try it 22:12:28 Though maybe it's gotten better since I last used it. 22:12:44 Well, depends on what you consider to be unacceptable of course 22:13:04 Defining a protocol with JSON or whatever (even raw TCP connections if applicable) can be better that you can also to use other custom front end programs, even if there is also a HTML-based front-end built-in too. 22:13:37 (Or just use the URL for that purpose, so that you can easily access with curl) 22:13:37 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 22:14:03 zzo38: We mostly let template Haskell generate the JSON protocol to be used from our types -- we haven't yet really had to deal with the problem of versioning our protocols though. 22:14:49 It *is* really nice to not have to worry about the JSON encoding and decoding being correct though. 22:15:24 For the most part, as far as I have to care about, there are just Haskell datastructures on either side of the wire. 22:16:30 We could just as well be using a binary format for communication, but sometimes it's nice to be able to see what was sent in Chrome's inspector -- and it hides binary websocket frames from you. 22:17:37 But then it makes it difficult to document the JSON being used 22:19:36 I suppose we could write another tool which took the types in question and generated documentation for the JSON rather than an encoder and decoder. 22:20:25 But mostly this communication is internal, and while we assume people could interfere with it, we don't really care about making that easy for stuff that's not using the generated JSON encoder. 22:30:50 shachaf: btw, I... don't hear anything when I go to obsidian.systems. 22:31:13 Try it in an incognito window? 22:31:17 shachaf: Oh, maybe it's when intercom sends that initial message 22:31:17 I think it's only the first time. 22:31:20 yeah 22:31:21 Yes. 22:32:27 I think there's a plan to replace this site soon enough anyway, but -- that'll probably involve some intercom integration too, so I'll be sure to mention your concern :) 22:34:59 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:38:22 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:47:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:03:58 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:05:38 Aw man. I just thought of a sweet mathematical property that isn't actually true. 23:07:00 For each positive integer n, the sets A = {1..n} and B = {n+1..2n} can be put in a one-to-one correspondence such that each element of B is divisible by its corresponding element of A. 23:08:33 Seems like it might be true. After all, the product of B is always divisible by the product of A. 23:08:43 But in any case, the smallest counterexample is n = 4. 23:09:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:09:31 Come to think of it, maybe there are only finitely many n for which it *is* true. 23:10:19 n = 1: (1,2). n = 2: (1,3), (2,4). n = 3: (1,5), (2,4), (3,6). n = 5: (1,7), (2,6), (3,9), (4,8), (5,10). 23:10:44 I think from n = 6 on, B always contains more than one prime number. 23:14:52 i doubt it is correct for anything big 23:15:02 between n and 2n, there is always a prime number 23:15:12 for which you HAVE to pick 1 23:15:23 the moment you get a second prime, you are screwed 23:15:42 oh, you went there, too 23:15:48 should've read first 23:16:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:23:09 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:18 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:29:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:31:06 Oh, something that was a little funny -- in Edinburgh there was a man camped in front of a fancy Apple store, on a folding chair, with a sign advertising "Cheaper Apple Repairs". 23:31:14 https://zem.fi/tmp/apple-repairs.jpg 23:38:57 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:40:27 fizzie, yeah that's a great move 23:46:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:59:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 2017-07-03: 00:02:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 00:34:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:54:00 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 01:12:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:17:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:38:41 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:40:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:43:30 -!- boily has joined. 01:47:57 `w 01:47:59 monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him. 01:48:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 01:54:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:05:40 bhellongtimenoseely 02:06:05 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:56 <__kerbal__> So, I've been wondering something. Who hosts the wiki now? 02:10:17 bonsoœçafaitunboutterjan! 02:11:43 __kerbal__: Gregor hosts it and fizzie maintains it 02:12:18 it's on the same server as HackEgo (which is why we get the wiki announcements) 02:12:22 <__kerbal__> ah, ok. I knew who hosted it a few years ago but never found who hosted it now 02:12:29 <__kerbal__> Interesting 02:12:57 <__kerbal__> What became of Graue and ehird? 02:13:44 they stopped coming here. 02:14:33 <__kerbal__> ah 02:15:56 a dark basement likely ate them. 02:16:02 I guess that "why" is technically true in that being on the same server was the motivation for the announcements, but they would work across hosts with just a configuration change. 02:17:14 i sort of suspected that 02:18:29 (Making them work in a way that wouldn't permit anyone from spamming the channel by spoofing the source address would be slightly more involved.) 02:18:49 * oerjan cannot find out what "boutt*" means 02:20:22 «ça fait un boutte», with the infamous «-tte» québécois spelling. «ça fait un bout» → ”it's been a while”. 02:20:52 while fr:bout can mean en:end, en:extremity, it can also mean en:“a length”. 02:21:07 <__kerbal__> I also heard that there was a forum at one point... I guess that, from what I've read of esolang wiki history, that (A) The forum was redundant and (B) it was clunky to use? 02:21:11 boily: there's some evidence they're still alive. 02:21:24 or were recently, anyway. 02:21:37 __kerbal__: It was also spammy. 02:21:43 <__kerbal__> Ok, I see 02:22:06 oerjan: I don't know who Graue is. 02:22:20 There's still a read-only copy around, isn't there? 02:22:24 boily: person who originally founded the wiki 02:22:25 <__kerbal__> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Graue 02:22:34 the forum wasn't terrible to use, just nobody did, so nobody had an incentive to 02:23:00 IIRC it used the same software 4chan did (or at least, something in the same style), which was an interesting choice 02:23:06 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal has a link to the archive. 02:23:57 <__kerbal__> You got a LOT of DVD spam 02:25:34 <__kerbal__> The history of the esolang community is really neat. I find category:shameful really amusing 02:26:00 heh :D 02:26:09 The mailing list(s) got real use, and were the direct predecessor of this channel. 02:27:29 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:29:09 <__kerbal__> Avast is flagging some kind of threat in one of the mailing list archives 02:29:15 <__kerbal__> (the most recent one) 02:30:26 There may be some spam in there as well, especially for the last years. 02:30:55 <__kerbal__> There's a LOT in the most recent one 02:31:20 2001/2002 are better. 02:32:03 Maybe we should have a 15-year celebration of some sort for #esoteric this coming December. 02:33:04 <__kerbal__> I've read about various abortive esolang design contests... I would participate in one, personally 02:33:13 maybe oerjan could meet Taneb? 02:33:16 <__kerbal__> an idea 02:33:57 boily: what 02:35:41 Maybe oerjan could meet Taneb in Greenland. 02:35:45 `quote greenland 02:35:46 932) The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree 02:36:13 `2 quote greenland 02:36:15 2/2:Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?) 02:39:33 shachaf: I'm in MTV again in August, though just for a week. 02:40:13 tg 02:41:31 @metar BGSF 02:41:32 BGSF 030050Z AUTO 31014KT 9999NDV SCT060/// 04/M04 Q1010 02:41:37 Sounds cold. 02:41:39 @metar KOAK 02:41:40 KOAK 030053Z 29012KT 10SM FEW008 FEW012 19/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP143 T01940128 02:41:41 @metar KSJC 02:41:42 KSJC 030053Z 30010KT 10SM FEW024 23/14 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02330144 02:42:53 @metar CYUL 02:42:53 CYUL 030100Z 25003KT 220V290 15SM FEW040TCU FEW080 20/18 A2983 RMK TCU1AC1 SLP104 DENSITY ALT 800FT 02:50:29 What's the "TCU" in "FEW040TCU FEW080”? (Total Cost of... U-something?) 02:51:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_congestus_cloud apparently? 02:51:47 Oh, it's the kind of cloud. 02:52:31 Towering Cumulus. 02:52:36 FEW040FLUFFY 02:53:18 it's a very humid summer so far. my plants are happy. 02:53:53 My plantdroid dried out while I was in Scotland. :/ 02:54:05 I keep pens in it now. 02:57:55 time for me to slumber post-modernly in an hyper-slow-motion interpretative deconstructivist expression of the inanimate self, transcending linen boundaries and reappropriation of unsuspecting pillows. 02:58:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AIRPORT CHICKEN). 03:02:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:02:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:15:14 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:18:06 . o O ( what's a plantdroid ) 03:31:52 -!- Zarutian has joined. 04:00:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:05:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:15:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 04:41:25 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:47:56 https://www.akalin.com/bfpp 05:01:52 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:08:50 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:30:41 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:58:29 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:04:04 @metar lowi 06:04:04 LOWI 030450Z 06004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT015 BKN025 14/13 Q1024 NOSIG 06:29:26 To make up the new kind of forum with Unusenet perhaps. I wrote the document for it, so in order to do so, is only necessary to do what is written on there; it does not require notifying anyone at all about it. 06:30:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:41 -!- augur has joined. 06:30:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:32:31 Did you read this document? Then you can tell me in case of anything wrong with it please. 06:37:34 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52390&oldid=52347 * Qwertyu63 * (-34) 06:37:48 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:38:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:50:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:53:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:53:33 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52391&oldid=52390 * Qwertyu63 * (+72) 06:56:12 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52392&oldid=52391 * Qwertyu63 * (-4) 06:56:45 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52393&oldid=52392 * Qwertyu63 * (+0) 07:02:01 -!- augur has joined. 07:05:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:16 -!- augur has joined. 07:18:29 is there a name for this? a tree where each node can be either white, black or grey 07:18:31 and where a white node only has white children, and a black node only has black children 07:18:56 apartheid hth 07:20:03 I don't know? 07:20:16 (wait, y'all are too young for this...) 07:23:08 i liked it 07:23:37 the joke, that is 07:23:55 Why is that sort of tree interesting? 07:24:03 yay 07:24:49 . o O ( oerjan's feeling his age! ) 07:25:37 oerjan: I think apartheid known even to youngsters. 07:25:44 shocking 07:26:00 shachaf: i use a bitmap to keep track of allocated areas, and this is faster than a linear scan 07:26:20 oh that kind of tree 07:26:21 because if free == white, you don't have to descend into black nodes to find a free block 07:26:52 this "free == white" thing is not helping your case hth 07:26:59 word. 07:27:01 lol 07:27:07 :D 07:27:23 let's s/white/blue/g, s/black/yellow/g, s/grey/green/g 07:27:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quad_tree_bitmap.svg ... I think they have no particular name and are described by their branching factor instead. (You could to the binary space partitioning as well) 07:28:00 yeah that's the same thing but in 1d instead of 2d 07:28:40 2^k trees are tg 07:28:47 tg? 07:28:49 too good 07:29:02 also, generically, it's a kind of sparse array 07:29:14 i guess 07:29:41 Do you like hashlife? 07:29:59 How would you make these sorts of diagrams? http://slbkbs.org/h/1.svg 07:30:08 izabera: anyway if you find an established name please let us know 07:30:17 shachaf: yeah hashlife is great, especially its practical applications 07:30:30 What are its practical applications? 07:30:45 thatsthejoke.gif 07:31:13 Is the joke that it has no practical applications? 07:31:20 what's up with those imaginary gif images 07:32:07 Imaginary gif is better than actual gif 07:32:17 Larger color palette. 07:32:51 I mean, what does "thatsthejoke.gif" convey that isn't conveyed by "that's the joke"? 07:33:04 There's a picture from the Simpsons that it's supposed to conjure, I think. 07:33:23 I watched the video that the picture comes from. It uses "that's the joke" in a completely different sense. It's not very funny. 07:33:27 Maybe that's the joke? 07:34:23 Oh, so what you're actually saying about this tree is that you only store the internal node rather than the entire subtree. 07:34:33 yep 07:34:54 Why not just call it a tree where the leaves are black or white? 07:35:13 ok 07:35:32 You can call them black white tree. 07:35:32 I'm confused. 07:37:20 what's confusing? 07:44:58 :t confusiing 07:45:00 error: 07:45:00 • Variable not in scope: confusiing 07:45:00 • Perhaps you meant ‘confusing’ (imported from Control.Lens) 07:45:03 ugh 07:45:04 :t confusing 07:45:06 Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b 08:04:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:22:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:25:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:26:50 I have played GURPS game four times already, and not once has my character ever been damaged. My character's shield got hit a few times but also has never gotten damaged. 08:52:48 What about your character's shield's shield? 08:55:36 -!- augur has joined. 09:10:24 shachaf, zzo38 goes through four of them a minute 09:12:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:15:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:26:11 -!- erkin has joined. 09:29:32 @quote stab 09:29:32 byorgey says: @type (^.) s -> Getting a s t a b -> a I would not like to be getting a stab, thank you 09:29:51 `wisdom 09:29:55 emoticon//emoticon: ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:36:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:59:40 -!- augur has joined. 10:06:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:06 -!- sleffy has joined. 10:16:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:28:48 * oerjan realizes he's been backscrolled fo 3 hours without noticing 10:31:50 :t confusing <-- now i'm wondering what the infamous ... i m a s t a b u function was. 10:33:42 @quote i.m.a.s 10:33:42 ddarius says: Someone made a completely non-idiomatic library/redefinings to make the code look more like ruby because, I'm assuming, they suffer from brain damage. 10:33:50 @quote i.m.a.s.t 10:33:50 No quotes match. Sorry. 10:33:54 darn 10:34:11 @quote stab 10:34:12 pjdelport says: [on qwe1234:] It must be a drag, being the sole beacon of sanity in a field where all the established researchers are unanimously insane. 10:34:27 @quote \ sioraiocht says: if you made a type class the same name as a type, I'd stab you in the face 10:35:05 i think you cannot do that, without different modules. 10:35:22 *+r 10:48:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:33:50 -!- boily has joined. 11:56:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:04:11 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:07:22 -!- augur has joined. 12:11:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:23:45 -!- erkin has joined. 12:24:25 -!- trn has joined. 12:27:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WATCH CHICKEN). 12:28:11 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 12:28:23 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:28:44 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 12:41:34 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:48:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:59:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:59:46 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: *). 13:08:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:12:09 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 13:18:19 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:51:17 -!- sftp has joined. 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:37:56 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:38:34 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:43:46 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:48:49 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:07:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:12:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:41:42 [wiki] [[Talk:Triple Threat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52394 * Kerbal * (+197) Created page with "You say that there are "There are a total of 11 valid commands in TT." Isn't that number actually 12, as 00 is a command? ~~~~" 16:46:06 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:47:24 oerjan: There was no such function. 16:47:58 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Client Quit). 17:16:10 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:20:02 -!- nullcone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:18 -!- sftp has joined. 17:25:17 -!- nullcone has joined. 17:28:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:40:31 -!- testuser has joined. 17:41:22 hello. is someone here ? 17:42:01 -!- testuser has left. 17:43:59 welp 17:49:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:57:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:58:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:04:27 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 18:14:41 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:31:42 -!- augur has joined. 18:54:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: restart). 18:55:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:58:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:02:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:08:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:27:34 the hell 19:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:49:18 -!- johndoe021 has joined. 19:59:33 -!- erkin has joined. 20:06:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:16:22 `quote solidity 20:16:23 240) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 20:16:38 http://u.solidity.cc/ 20:17:10 Did you know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidity ? 20:17:22 Please to see it gopher://zzo38computer.org/0textfile/miscellaneous/unusenet tell me any comment you have of it. 20:17:31 treederwright was a true prophet 20:29:55 -!- Mew_ has joined. 20:30:06 Hello. 20:30:24 `welcome Mew_ 20:30:25 Mew_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:38:27 G'evening 20:43:22 Did you read this document? 20:49:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:50:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:56:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:22:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:25:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:30:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:47:36 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 21:53:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:56:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:01:47 How long have you guys been programming? 22:02:14 and how did you get into it? 22:02:29 About 7 or 8 years, from David Morgan Mar's esolangs 22:02:34 (especially Piet) 22:03:39 I started to program in dos when I was 9, though didn't learn c++ until just this year. C# has served me well 22:04:47 batch, that is 22:04:49 I learnt Haskell shortly after finding this channel circa 2011 and I've just got a job using it \o/ 22:05:17 Hope to be able to find a developer job after I finish UNI 22:05:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:05:53 `? rdococ 22:05:54 My advice is have a niche skill and lots of public examples of your programming 22:05:54 rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:06:48 `learn rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:06:51 Relearned 'rdococ': rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:08:17 `cwlprits rdococ 22:08:24 rdococ, anywhere near the bit of airstrip one I've just moved to? 22:08:25 rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän oerjän oerjän rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän rdocöc rdocöc oerjän 22:08:37 what a surprise imo 22:08:48 Taneb, idk for sure. 22:11:00 `? Taneb 22:11:01 Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions). 22:11:17 Taneb, may I ask you why you moved to Airstrip One? you must be nuts. 22:19:40 rdococ, some of us have the ill fortune to be born here 22:21:26 I've just moved to Cambridge, however 22:22:20 Taneb, ah. I misread what you said. 22:22:31 I was born here too. miracle we can still use the internet. 22:23:06 Quite, indeed 22:23:07 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:23:20 where is airstrip one? 22:23:24 I live in pirateland #1 22:23:39 Mew_, Penzance?? 22:23:48 It's located above the left-most regions of Eurasia. 22:23:53 and by that I mean digital pirateland #1 22:23:54 ais523, Britain a la 1984 22:24:02 Mew_, ...Penzance??? 22:24:10 Sweden boi 22:24:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:24:35 So, not Penzance 22:24:36 You'll have trouble finding someone here who hasnt pirated a movie or game 22:24:48 no, not Penzance 22:24:52 but that's a nice place 22:24:59 I'm trying not to pirate things :P 22:25:20 Same, I actually only pirate to check if its worth buying xd 22:26:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:29:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:29:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:31:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:33:45 [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52395&oldid=52100 * Wheatwizard * (-2) Even shorter sum of inputs 22:35:14 I seem to recall talking about Befunge a significant fraction of one interview, and think I got an offer. 22:35:23 Not sure which company this was though. 22:36:04 make sure it isn't in airstrip one 22:37:06 Logs of this channel suggest it was Nokia, where I think I mostly got the (summer) job for knowing Perl. 22:37:32 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPji43Hqyrg 22:37:34 <\oren\> ^ when u aren't allowed to play anymore minecraft today 22:44:41 Here's a fun UK fact: living here for two and a half years isn't long enough to turn a pay-as-you-go SIM into a monthly (£15/mo) plan SIM, at least with Three. They need three years of UK residential addresses before they can even think about considering such a risk. 22:46:28 o.o 22:47:40 No one is answering my question about "Rice's theorem for computable reals": https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/77487/decidable-properties-of-computable-reals 22:47:45 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 22:48:08 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:58 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Is there a web viewer for gopher? 22:50:13 <__kerbal__> Do you have to download something to read pages in that protocol? 22:50:30 gopher predates the web and has a similar format 22:50:37 *a similar purpose 22:50:52 Firefox used to have a gopher viewer as well as an http viewer, I'm not sure if it still does 22:51:21 __kerbal__: Yes, although an alternative, if you do not wish to do that, is to just change "gopher://" to "http://" and remove the 0, and then the same file is accessible over HTTP 22:51:21 <__kerbal__> Is there an online viewer? 22:51:27 <__kerbal__> oh, ok 22:51:36 <__kerbal__> thanks 22:53:18 shachaf: ooh, that's a good one. 22:55:21 <__kerbal__> zzo38: why would an airport need newsgroups? 22:55:30 <__kerbal__> Or private telephone numbers? 22:55:39 ais523: I think it was dropped already before they embarked on the big version numbers. 22:55:43 <__kerbal__> (It's a fascinatingly esoteric idea, by the way) 22:56:25 I can easily imagine an airport benefitting from private telephone numbers, most big organizations do 22:56:44 <__kerbal__> Well, yes... THAT's true 22:56:57 <__kerbal__> Why would a private telephone number need a newgroup? 22:57:12 <__kerbal__> newsgroup 22:58:43 -!- boily has joined. 22:58:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:58:52 The telephone numbers are not necessarily going to be private; they could have public access, and that is the point of the un0.tel.* hierarchy, in case it is necessary that that newsgroup has a central server which is accessible by telephone instead of internet. Note that Unusenet does not actually require internet, although internet will probably be the most common case anyways. 22:58:56 OK, clearly I took the less insane reading of the ambiguous sentence by default, and given that this is #esoteric I shouldn't have done 22:59:18 If there is anything unclear, notify me so that I may correct it. 22:59:58 <__kerbal__> oh, so the clients would connect by telephone? 23:00:06 <__kerbal__> that's a neat idea 23:01:24 __kerbal__: Potentially, although they do not have to. There could be an echo on a server accessible over the internet too, although such a name is specifying that that newsgroup has a central server and that the specified way of accessing it is by telephone. 23:02:06 <__kerbal__> So, would un0.icao.* connect by airplane mail, and un0.icbm.* connect by intercontinental ballistic missile? 23:02:24 <__kerbal__> I wouldn't want to host a server using the latter protocol if so 23:02:25 No. In those cases, no central server is specified. 23:02:29 <__kerbal__> ok 23:03:00 <__kerbal__> Seriously, though, is icbm intended to be the location of the server? 23:03:08 <__kerbal__> physically? 23:04:35 <__kerbal__> is it just a location for the point of it? 23:04:46 __kerbal__: the missiles wouldn't need a warhead 23:04:51 you could just put USB sticks on them or something 23:04:59 hezzo38, his523, __kerbello__. 23:05:10 <__kerbal__> helloily 23:05:38 https://gyazo.com/4433433d420bd66d5014589959bf81f9 23:05:40 It is just a location for the point of it when it is defined, although the server may be physically located there, and you may use disks to transfer messages to/from that server if necessary, although none of these things are required; the location when defined is mainly for uniqueness. 23:05:44 <__kerbal__> ais523: Still, you're LAUNCHING ICBM'S AT SOMEONE! 23:06:04 <__kerbal__> I hope there are parachutes involved 23:06:06 it actually strikes me as a fairly secure method of communication 23:06:18 nobody's going to try to recover those things intact if they don't already know they're for sending data 23:06:24 and an interception of the message is pretty obvious 23:06:27 <__kerbal__> I think they actually tried something similar 23:06:42 <__kerbal__> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail 23:06:58 damn, need to figure out how to loop through a, well loop and get the value at the end of the loop and stick it into a variable 23:07:27 <__kerbal__> Would be really cool, just slightly dangerous 23:07:37 ais523: Well, yes you can do that; it is not prohibited by the specification of Unusenet (even though that isn't the intention of the un0.icbm.* hierarchy, the protocol won't stop you from doing this anyways). 23:07:39 <__kerbal__> if the parachute failed 23:08:12 I'm actually imagining aiming at a lake or the like 23:08:19 then you just scoop the missile out of the lake after it lands 23:08:23 Practicalities, dangerous like that, cost, etc, may stop you, but the protocol of Unusenet does not stop you. 23:08:38 <__kerbal__> ais523: That might be safer 23:08:42 or send it under the radar, and noone will know 23:08:47 you need no security then 23:08:51 <__kerbal__> Mew_: That works 23:09:35 But you cannot send a missile to that address anyways, because the address points to the past, not the future. 23:11:04 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Can't you just omit the time part in programming your missile? 23:11:23 just change it relative to earth rotation and shit 23:12:12 __kerbal__: I suppose so. 23:12:37 <__kerbal__> (I really like this idea. I'm heading to NORAD and seeing if they can loan me a test ICBM) 23:12:58 can I come with you? but you have to ring the doorbell. 23:13:03 I am to scared 23:14:16 <__kerbal__> Maybe we can organize a delegation to head over to NORAD and ask for missiles in the name of the esolang community 23:14:29 <__kerbal__> for the good of all of us except the ones who are dead 23:15:02 The name "un0.icbm.*" only indicates that it is the "missile address" hierarchy though, not necessarily that you are using actual missiles. 23:15:13 <__kerbal__> zzo38: killjoy 23:15:42 But like I said, the Unusenet protocol does not prohibit you from using actual missiles, either. 23:15:50 <__kerbal__> hooray! 23:16:34 <__kerbal__> Mew_: So what's your esolang? 23:17:52 Its brainfuck, but instead of the pointer position being saved between writes, it resets. and then you move pointer through a 80 character alphabet with + and -, it also includes a kind of ACC function that exists in asm 23:17:59 but its not really working properly 23:18:06 only the basic stuff 23:18:12 need to figure the looping out 23:18:35 <__kerbal__> What are the pointer commands? 23:18:51 +, - and . 23:19:19 + adds to the position of the pointer and - subtracts, then . writes the current character to a stream 23:19:26 and ; creates a new line 23:19:30 <__kerbal__> How do you move the data pointer if it resets itself? 23:20:05 well, lets say you want to write "ABC" then you would have this "+.++.+++." 23:20:27 <__kerbal__> ah 23:20:43 instead of what brainfuck would have 23:20:46 <__kerbal__> so + and - are increment and decrement commands 23:20:50 yep 23:20:56 does this actually have a tape? or are you just incrementing a single value? 23:21:06 <__kerbal__> ais523: That's exactly what I'm wondering 23:21:17 yes, it does 23:21:25 and adding or subtracting scrolls the tape 23:21:45 <__kerbal__> so, what would the tape look like after the ABC code? 23:22:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:23:37 Well, ok so it doesnt really have a tape, but for that specific character it does. so after you have written (lets say e) which is "+++++." then it would reset, so if you want an F now you would have to do "++++++." 23:24:08 I am not really sure what you mean by tape, new here. But I read the esolang article 23:24:20 <__kerbal__> Are you familiar with the C array? 23:24:39 I'm very new to C/C++ 23:24:45 so, vaguele 23:24:48 so, vaguely* 23:25:02 <__kerbal__> The C# array is very similar 23:25:09 <__kerbal__> I see you use C#? 23:25:11 Ye 23:25:13 yep 23:25:31 <__kerbal__> Ok, so basically a tape is like an array that stores integers. 23:25:59 <__kerbal__> Tapes can be arbitrary length in some langs, though\ 23:26:02 <__kerbal__> though 23:26:58 It doesn't store the last character that you wrote if that is what you mean. I want to implement that by the loop, so if you want something that you previously wrote, you need to access the saved variable in acc. 23:27:34 and to add store a value in acc I want to add the loop [ code ] so that the value at ] would be stored 23:27:40 <__kerbal__> I believe the acc you are talking about may be a stack or a queue (maybe even a deque) 23:27:52 yeah 23:28:52 <__kerbal__> stacks and queues are like tapes, but you access them from the ends instead of from within 23:29:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:30:02 ah, I see 23:31:35 <__kerbal__> You might be able to use c# arrays to simulate a tape 23:31:51 <__kerbal__> or stack 23:31:59 <__kerbal__> for a stack, a list would be better 23:31:59 That is interesting, because I didnt think of that when I started this evening 23:32:12 but now I think that is the way I should take 23:33:45 <__kerbal__> By the way, if you are having trouble with the C# implementation, Python might be easier 23:34:03 ACC is a registry that stores a value in op codes, and so when you call SUB or ADD it will subtract or add to the ACC registry, that was the way I was planning to go 23:34:40 Ah, see now. I learned Python after I had just learned batch as a kid, but C# kind of took over and suppressed it 23:34:57 but I remember batch clear as day 23:36:25 <__kerbal__> So, without a tape, would your language have an ACC and another accumulator that you have been using already? 23:39:01 <__kerbal__> (The one that +, -, and . have been operating on) 23:39:03 Yep, so it could do subtraction, addition, multiplication and division 23:39:49 <__kerbal__> Interesting; see the bottom of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stack 23:40:03 <__kerbal__> wait, never mind 23:40:06 <__kerbal__> That's about stacks 23:40:12 <__kerbal__> You need accumulators 23:40:39 <__kerbal__> I think you need a tape or a stack or something like that for a TC language 23:40:43 <__kerbal__> unbounded memory 23:40:59 <__kerbal__> with only 2 accumulators, you'd only have two variables 23:41:07 <__kerbal__> crudely speaking 23:41:07 yep, thats the plan 23:41:15 extremely hard to write code for 23:41:20 like brainfuck 23:41:24 but more brainfucky 23:42:35 <__kerbal__> BF has unbounded memory, and is TC. That means that it can execute almost any algorithm you throw at it, even if it is hard 23:42:57 <__kerbal__> I highly recommend that you implement a tape to take advantage of Turing-Completeness 23:43:11 I like how BF is turing complete but C isnt 23:43:50 Ill see what I can do. It'd be pretty cool to be able to say that I have made a turing complete language 23:44:35 <__kerbal__> About C: Some people say that it isn't TC, but in practice it is basically as TC as any other language 23:44:45 <__kerbal__> in a real-world sense 23:44:49 not quite 23:45:15 <__kerbal__> man, my explanation was nearly flawless. What'd I get wrong? 23:45:21 there's a critical distinction, in that a standards-compliant C implementation must have finite memory 23:45:27 even if you have infinite physical memory available 23:45:40 whereas BF has a theoretically infinite tape 23:46:28 "A programming language that is Turing complete is theoretically capable of expressing all tasks accomplishable by computers; nearly all programming languages are Turing complete if the limitations of finite memory are ignored." According to wikipedia 23:46:32 <__kerbal__> is it because of the size_t thing? 23:46:53 <__kerbal__> Mew_: No, what he's saying is that the language itself puts a limit on memory 23:46:57 __kerbal__: and finite pointer size 23:47:00 *she 23:47:19 <__kerbal__> No, I'm a he 23:47:27 but I'm not and you were talking about me 23:47:34 <__kerbal__> oh, very sorry 23:47:46 np 23:48:04 the standard requires there to be finitely many pointer values, and every object needs a distinct address 23:48:53 Insert the standard #esoteric discussion about how an implementation may allow infinite files to get around that problem. 23:49:20 <__kerbal__> fizzie: Can you do that? 23:49:43 <__kerbal__> or will we be inserting the discussion by asking that question? 23:49:43 it's a hotly contested subject 23:49:47 yes 23:49:50 <__kerbal__> ah 23:51:01 It does require files where you can seek around with a relative offset, but not (necessarily) get/set an absolute one. 23:51:21 but fseek() has to return the current offset 23:52:04 err, ftell() 23:52:51 Arguably it doesn't need to work for all files. 23:53:04 Well, good night. I have to magically fall asleep and wake up in the next 5 hours. Work 23:53:06 Ctya 23:53:09 Cya 23:53:21 <__kerbal__> bye 23:53:40 Also thanks __kerbal__ :) 23:53:50 <__kerbal__> de nada 23:53:56 -!- Mew_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:54:16 <__kerbal__> hope he finishes his language. 23:54:20 <__kerbal__> Or she 23:54:37 <__kerbal__> I keep doing that :( 23:55:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:21 that's what singular they is for 23:55:30 <__kerbal__> I hate singular they, personally 23:55:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:55:44 <__kerbal__> from now on, I should just use the nicks, I guess 23:55:44 fair, to each their own 23:55:47 (well err) 23:55:55 (I just realised the irony of using singular they in that line) 23:56:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:56:30 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:56:43 it's safe to assume people are themselves, up to isomorphism. 23:56:54 <__kerbal__> It looked like Mew_ created a new character set 23:57:11 <__kerbal__> for whatever that language was named 23:57:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TREFOIL CHICKEN). 23:57:34 <__kerbal__> Rerail, it was called 23:58:16 <__kerbal__> space was right before A 2017-07-04: 00:03:53 -!- olsner has joined. 00:04:56 hmm I want to make a language where the only available integer constants are weird 00:05:05 but you need to not be able to know they are coprime or it's easy 00:06:31 In case someone else had missed it too (and there's precedent discussing it on-channel), SGDQ 2017 is happening. 00:08:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:09:18 <__kerbal__> alercah: by weird do you mean non-coprime? 00:09:25 __kerbal__: no like 00:09:47 available constants include: the number of bytes in the source file, the current day of the month, numberwang 00:10:00 Ah 00:10:13 <__kerbal__> neat 00:10:32 <__kerbal__> this could have interesting ramifications for quines 00:10:49 numberwang is a constant for any run of the program but changes each run 00:11:16 Presumably you need to restrict what can be done with those constants, otherwise (X/X)+(X/X)+(X/X)+... is an unary way to represent any number, for a constant X. 00:11:32 yeah 00:11:50 <__kerbal__> so, for truly portable code you'd have to work around integer constants entirely or exploit a loophole 00:12:13 <__kerbal__> unless you use something like the number of bytes in the source 00:12:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:12:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:12:49 <__kerbal__> Still, how do you prevent someone from rebuilding the set of integer numbers from a single number and arithmetic? 00:13:05 you make it hard to find 1 00:14:00 <__kerbal__> so arithmetic will be restricted if it generates 1? 00:15:14 <__kerbal__> This is neat territory 00:15:20 well no, if you get 1, you win 00:15:35 although it might be helpful to include intercal-style arithmetic 00:15:41 where you don't get your usual operations 00:15:51 <__kerbal__> to prevent fizzie's scenario? 00:16:02 well that and just to make it more entertaining 00:16:08 <__kerbal__> true :) 00:17:37 <__kerbal__> what about a rotation operator? It would rotate the line to the complex number x y degrees 00:17:45 <__kerbal__> (if you want complex numbers) 00:19:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:19:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:21:29 yeah that's an option 00:21:47 putting max or min in (but not both, that's too easy) would be good 00:21:52 maybe round to nearest multiple of 7 00:21:53 <__kerbal__> if you don't, what about an operator a such that, for 2 integer numbers x and y, as y or x approaches infinity or negative infinity, x a y is 2 or negative 2 or something like that? Something that evokes the 1/x curve 00:21:59 I am trying to install a package that uses a dependency which is not available on the distribution I am using; it is libstdc++6 (>= 4.8) which I do not have. How to fix it? 00:22:14 <__kerbal__> max and min would be helpful 00:22:48 <__kerbal__> by negative 2, I mean 0: Some integer thing that approaches 1 for infinite operands 00:23:20 <__kerbal__> asymptotically approaches 1, I guess I am trying to say 00:23:23 that really requires floating poing to be productive 00:23:32 ooh, should maybe use a non-IEEE floating point for all numbers too 00:23:36 <__kerbal__> you could round, I guess, but that would make little sense 00:23:40 <__kerbal__> with integers 00:23:59 <__kerbal__> Yeah, that's best with floats 00:25:23 have the exponent be powers of 3 00:25:35 and don't bother normalizing the mantissa 00:26:05 <__kerbal__> you could even do base 3 arithmetic 00:26:20 that's not really meaningful 00:26:25 <__kerbal__> true 00:27:04 actually I think the floating point math would get weirder with bigger exponent base? 00:27:07 like if I did base 101 00:27:15 <__kerbal__> that'd be cool 00:27:46 <__kerbal__> and confusing, but that's the idea 00:27:49 "Important: libstdc++6 is an important system library that many different packages depend on. Upgrading this package to a newer release might be dangerous and might lead to system stability issues." Is it possible to tell only one program to use the new version? 00:28:19 no 00:28:29 you can only have one library with a given SONAME 00:28:41 well 00:28:45 within your package manager you can't 00:29:05 you could if you downloaded the program separately and wrapped it with a script to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH 00:29:32 zzo38: imo statically link everything hth 00:31:49 And, how to do that? 00:32:36 Apparently it's not easy to statically link libstdc++ 00:36:44 lol nope 00:37:17 computers are scow 00:38:01 <__kerbal__> Someone should make an esolang where the only storage is really a tape but is interfaced as and called an accumulator vector, just to make people think 00:38:40 <__kerbal__> Multiple accumulator vectors in a language would have some neat mathematical properties 00:38:52 <__kerbal__> because they'd basically be tapes that'd interact 00:39:21 <__kerbal__> through arithmetic operations and the like 00:39:30 <__kerbal__> or would that simply be a language called R? 00:41:11 <__kerbal__> actually, a language where you would treat stacks and tapes and everything else as single, interactable structures with arithmetic capabilities would be really cool. 00:41:41 <__kerbal__> and now I'm ranting 00:44:33 Is it possible for a ELF program to specify a different filename or different directory or whatever and to modify the ELF program to do that without causing a problem? I can add a wrapper script if necessary but I don't even know how would be adding the separate library and how to program to make it to do that? 00:50:02 How do I download version 4.8 of libstdc++6 anyways? 00:52:00 Also, what do I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to? What is the man page for LD_LIBRARY_PATH? 00:53:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:55:09 Nevermind I found the information about LD_LIBRARY_PATH. 00:55:32 However, that does not tell me how to download libstdc++6 01:06:08 <__kerbal__> are you on linux? if so, wouldn't apt-get install work? 01:07:24 But that version of that package is not available. 01:08:25 I tried to use "dpkg --dry-run" with the .deb for Node.js version 8, but it says error it needs the action option. 01:10:13 <__kerbal__> So, the package is a newer release? 01:10:26 Yes 01:11:12 I want to download the file for libstdc++6 version 4.8 and then tell this program to use the newer one even though the other program does not. 01:11:41 I could write a shell script that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH but first the file need to installed. 01:12:21 <__kerbal__> Would this help at all? I bet you've already tried this https://packages.debian.org/jessie/libstdc++6 01:14:22 I don't know if it might conflict with other programs that use the existing libstdc++6, such as Ubuntu system files 01:22:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:23:50 <__kerbal__> fungot: what is your name? 01:23:50 __kerbal__: they say that real hackers always are controlled. there, among other things, the stone struck the spider lay dead beside him, and even birds, got out, long snout upraised like a blank scroll is the ultimate shape changer. 01:24:22 <__kerbal__> Ironically, I suspect that fungot was never trained on the word fungot, so he can't say it 01:24:22 __kerbal__: they say that most monsters prefer minced meat. that's why they are capable of attacking twice with weapons and with a +5 shovel. 01:25:33 <__kerbal__> implicitly avoiding bot loops 01:25:44 <__kerbal__> with 1 bot, himself 01:25:58 <__kerbal__> fungot IS a he, right? 01:25:58 __kerbal__: they say that venus sprang from the oligocene of asia, which fought on its lowest level. 01:30:50 fungot: appropriate 01:30:50 Warrigal_: blind io had got his name because, where his eye. but the sword. ( the light but warm silken stuff that the priesthood are specially favored by the puritans and in the sky who plagued the allied pilots in their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms of silver; in their fate, full share had the dead. 01:30:57 fungot: appropriate 01:30:57 Warrigal_: they say that some eggs could hatch in your .newsrc!" 01:31:10 fungot: around 01:31:10 Warrigal_: sake: japanese rice wine. human(oid) of the english language) 01:31:14 fungot: around 01:31:14 Warrigal_: the wizard of yendor and stay away from onslaught. he is believed to have assumed mortal form and inhabited the dungeon residents who, naturally, often carrying diseases. " after dinner, you see invisible things. 01:31:29 Trying to figure out if fungot tries to use a word that's in the prompt message. 01:32:22 <__kerbal__> fungot: a 01:32:22 __kerbal__: disenchanter: ask not, as shown by all accounts.' ( the tough guide to the lion kills and eats, and he looked at rikki-tikki with the atlatl, which means old god, goddess: goddesses and gods, godlets rather, in the following year condemned to be leading the souls who pass to afterlife, but never to touch naked persons: they don't harm them. 01:32:33 <__kerbal__> fungot: the 01:32:33 __kerbal__: old hackers never sleep near invisible ring wraiths. yeats). they were not trolls but giant orcs; but the goblins called it simply biter. they called them gremlins, he enjoys visiting the earth elemental, the shokaku bo were small plates, sometimes triangular but more commonly rectangular in shape. because the front projected so far as the ears, and can spread a quickly fatal illness to his feet. 01:32:44 <__kerbal__> the answer is yes, technically 01:32:50 <__kerbal__> for at least some words 01:33:00 Anyway, I feel an esolang coming on. 01:54:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:05:24 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:06:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:14:18 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 02:15:33 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 02:23:00 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:29:41 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:51:38 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:58:31 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:02:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:02:25 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 03:05:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:07:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:08:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:14:27 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 03:28:25 X is much better than Wayland I think. However, a lot of stupid junk has been added into X, too. 03:37:23 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:39:04 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:50:45 -!- johndoe021 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:01:20 <\oren\> maybe linkin park is just music for people who are failures at life 04:02:44 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:06:36 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:38:21 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:56:10 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:01:47 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:07:02 -!- ski has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:47:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:52:49 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:00:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:10:35 zzo38: Do you like NeWS? 06:32:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:40:29 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 06:44:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:07:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:09:20 -!- augur has joined. 07:13:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:14:20 -!- augur has joined. 07:15:07 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:33:08 oerjan: There was no such function. <-- well it was not _implemented_... or are you saying edwardk is a _liar_? 07:35:43 or even worse, people are faking edwardk quotes 07:37:02 edwardk is sometimes an exaggarator 07:37:14 *GASP* 07:39:37 `5 w 07:39:42 1/2:misle//misle v. tr. "I was misled about morphology." \ ursala//~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, \ tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its spee 07:39:47 `n 07:39:48 2/2:d. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up. \ frozen water//Frozen water is just ice. \ man//Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a minor island. 07:52:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:07:28 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:07:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:35:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:51:57 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 09:16:10 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 09:17:48 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:29:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:31:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:48:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:05:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:33:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:35:10 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:38:23 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 10:39:04 " Aw man. I just thought of a sweet mathematical property that isn't actually true." => wait, I'll tell another one that would be nice if it were true 10:40:30 Let F and G be integers, a_0=0, a_1=1, and for every natural number k, a_{k+1}=Fa_{k-1}+Ga_k. It would be nice if for every natural numbers k and l, gcd(a_k,a_l)=a_{gcd(k,l)} 10:40:49 This actually works for F=G=1 and many other choices, but it fails for some others. 10:40:57 Even if you put magnitude bars in. 10:42:41 " Maybe we should have a 15-year celebration of some sort for #esoteric this coming December." => wow, now I feel like a newbie here 10:44:38 " oerjan: I think apartheid known even to youngsters." => this, yes. you can't avoid shameful 20th century history if you live in present day Europe, with all the memorials around 10:47:54 fungot, when you fry then cook beef slices, how do you prepare the meat? 10:47:55 wob_jonas: ashikaga takauji was a pretty fair shot with a bag.... but none have found him and his sword-blade was stained black. somehow the killing of the moon and wisdom, thoth is the same colour as the originator and guardian deity of horse races. his most distinctive features are the devil's work. 10:49:26 -!- augur has joined. 10:55:16 "<__kerbal__> oh, so the clients would connect by telephone? <__kerbal__> that's a neat idea" => ok, great, now I no longer feel like a newbie 10:56:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 10:57:40 ais523: I'm not sure the intercontinental rockets for secure comms are a good idea. countries sometimes get very annoyed when unidentified rockets are shot through their airspace. if you communicate a lot that way, you might accidentally start a war. 11:02:33 " available constants include: the number of bytes in the source file" => there's something like that used in that dc signature program that breaks if you try to debug it by adding printfs, because it takes the length of certain macros and accesses them as integer constants 11:04:29 " How do I download version 4.8 of libstdc++6 anyways?" => install a new enough gcc from source 11:04:41 " Also, what do I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to? What is the man page for LD_LIBRARY_PATH?" => the manpage is ld.so 11:04:58 That last question I did figure out myself already at least 11:05:02 (about LD_LIBRARY_PATH) 11:05:36 " Warrigal_: blind io had got his name because, where his eye. but the sword. ( the light but warm silken stuff that the priesthood are specially favored by the puritans and in the sky who plagued the allied pilots in their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms 11:05:36 wob_jonas: multi-player nethack is your turn", as near as might be a doppelganger sent to inflict pain or cause injury. suddenly, a realist in action and a wonderfully beautiful bull.... but all the gods to listen easily. 11:05:36 of silver; in their fate, full share had the dead." 11:05:39 nice 11:07:38 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:08:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:25:16 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:34:44 -!- boily has joined. 11:46:15 "his most distinctive features are the devil's work." 11:46:19 fungot: Never stop being you. 11:46:19 fizzie: dingo: a rock mole is a device that can reach the nether world, so what use is engraving in a long, jointed tail tapering to a shoe; a few things to say why. his expression quickly changed, and also a device used to describe the occasional village through which they passed, meant fever- ridden and tumbledown. twoflower was a flutter of wings at the price tags before buying anything. 11:46:53 TIL: a rock mole is a device that can reach the nether world. 11:53:33 fungot: feeling abyssal? 11:53:33 boily: money to invest? take it to imitate at this catastrophe, or consecration. thor used it to hatch. when carried, it was a time when rincewind had quite liked the iconoscope. he does not have heard of on the widdershin side of the slain, the goddess deprived her of her charms and changed to a very light snack. 11:59:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:59:58 <\oren\> linkin park make nice music but I can't relate to their lyrics at all 12:03:31 fungot, how do you treat insect bites? 12:03:31 wob_jonas: does your boss know what you're doing right now. while he was the world he shall surely be put to death by some quantum event. if you can't bribe soldier ants. 12:03:54 hehe 12:05:09 <\oren\> I usually use calamine since I wouldn't know what to bribe the ants with 12:06:28 you bribe them with gold pieces. gold is universally respected as a currency, see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html 12:12:37 `quote 12:12:37 926) Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? 12:12:37 HackEgo: one has to leave shops before closing time. 12:12:38 `wisdom 12:12:40 for further details for futher details.//See `? for further details for futher details. 12:13:09 `? further details 12:13:10 further details? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:13:11 `? for further details 12:13:12 who knows 12:13:12 at least in NetHack, bribing people with gold only works on a subset of humans 12:13:56 (plus a subset of demons, but only for people who don't play in easy mode) 12:14:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCiFO7qV54E 12:14:09 I once bribed one of the Castle soldiers to block a corridor for me to stop the rest interfering with me while I looted it 12:14:13 wob_jonas: oh right 12:14:23 I forgot about those as it's a completely different mechanic internally 12:17:00 (and leprechauns, sort of, but they return later) 12:17:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:23:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ALWAYS CHICKEN). 12:29:23 `scheme 12:29:24 The Fate of the Flammable 12:29:24 `star-wars 12:29:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: star-wars: not found 12:29:26 `recipe 12:29:27 pan, combine the milk, tomato, cinnamon, and eggs; mix well, and sides of \ fork and process until mixture is smooth. Top with a pasta, \ and roll up. (The seed sandwich in an individual long and cut \ in time of the tips.) In a bowl, mix the lemon juice, and \ onion, and cook. Stir in the cream and salt; pour into soup \ and flour mixture int 12:29:33 `starwars 12:29:35 Obi-Wan Kenobi 12:29:56 `5 starwars 12:29:58 1/1:Supreme Leader Snoke \ Finn \ Gial Ackbar \ Supreme Leader Snoke \ Sio Bibble 12:30:11 `5 scheme 12:30:14 1/1:Your Puny Minds Cannot Fathom \ The Pieces Are Coming Together \ Realms Befitting My Majesty \ Every Hope Shall Vanish \ May Civilization Collapse 12:31:32 -!- Remavas has joined. 12:34:14 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 13:27:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:28:08 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:39:22 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:41:06 -!- vifino has joined. 13:41:21 -!- erkin has joined. 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:19:18 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 14:19:22 * __kerbal__ narrows his eyes 14:19:45 <__kerbal__> wait... connecting to a server via telephone is basically just dialup, isn't it 14:19:46 <__kerbal__> ? 14:20:38 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 14:20:55 -!- nullcone has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:28:27 yes 14:29:21 <__kerbal__> You learn (or remember, or whatever), something new every day! 14:35:13 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:37:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:50:36 -!- nullcone has joined. 14:57:27 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:00:37 -!- nullcone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:01:43 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:04:35 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:05:33 -!- nullcone has joined. 15:15:42 -!- Fungusot has joined. 15:15:45 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack oreo 15:15:50 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack cookie 15:15:53 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack mint 15:15:59 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack waffle 15:16:03 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack other food 15:16:03 __kerbal__: STOP SPAMMING ME! I'LL EXECUTE YOUR REQUEST IN A SECOND! FOR NOW, I JUST WANT PEACE! 15:16:26 <__kerbal__> ;hi 15:16:27 __kerbal__: STOP SPAMMING ME! I'LL EXECUTE YOUR REQUEST IN A SECOND! FOR NOW, I JUST WANT PEACE! 15:17:55 -!- Fungusot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:18:24 <__kerbal__> Well, what do you think? 15:18:54 <__kerbal__> It's fungot's short-tempered cousin 15:18:54 __kerbal__: ishtar: ishtar ( the prisoner, by j.r.r. tolkien) of scaly lizards, especially the _chameleo vulgaris_ species, with broad girdles that held it glowed with a +5 shovel. ( after the blade itself gleamed like a lizard corpse is guaranteed to be clean enough. ( the lands beyond the world with human beings who not unnaturally showed intense gratitude for the feast of st. brigit. there is a translation of the twilight th 15:25:02 -!- Fungusot has joined. 15:44:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:45:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:05:48 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:12:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:30:09 -!- Remavas has joined. 16:59:14 -!- Mew_ has joined. 16:59:27 G'day 17:11:43 <__kerbal__> Hi 17:12:19 G'evening 17:34:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:35:15 Good day 17:48:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:54:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:00:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:11:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:14:33 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:15:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 18:25:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:32:15 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:40:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:44:18 <__kerbal__> One of my many ideas: You know how many esolangs (the esolangs wiki counts 237 languages that use a tape in some way. although probably not all of them exclusively use one tape for memory), no matter their syntatical differences, use a tape as their memory? 18:45:04 <__kerbal__> What about a framework where you could code in multiple tape-based esolangs within the same document, switching at will? You could start in BF and switch to Integ partway through 18:45:19 <__kerbal__> It'd be confusing but really cool 18:53:56 Cool idea 19:01:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:31:11 -!- Mew_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:33:09 -!- nullcone has left ("User left"). 19:42:20 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 19:49:59 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:57 <__kerbal__> You'd basically have a large program in, say, Tapelang, that executes commands by running subprograms in other languages. These subprograms might return a value to TapeLang, allowing TapeLang to have its own logical structures; ideally, however, the programs would interact with one another by modifying the shared tape. A Tellurium program might read a string to the tape, say, and then an Integ program would import a chatbot modu 20:13:45 <__kerbal__> rgb values of the geometric figure that it represents (like a square) and then a Graphical BF program would write the program to the screen. 20:15:03 <__kerbal__> TapeLang would be the glue that allows these languages to coexist in one program 20:15:53 <__kerbal__> (of course, Integ's not a great language for working with strings, but you get my point) 20:16:47 <__kerbal__> In the example I gave, you'd input the name of a shape (like "square") and the program would draw a square, using the combined capabilities of the languages used 20:18:51 <__kerbal__> It'd sort of resemble the .NET framework 20:19:05 <__kerbal__> except the programs are all interpreted 20:22:36 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:32:22 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 20:32:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 20:38:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:57:44 -!- erkin has joined. 21:35:21 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:54:57 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:15:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:38:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:39:44 -!- MDude has joined. 22:41:33 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:01:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:17:32 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:26:51 -!- boily has joined. 23:27:41 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 23:28:13 helloily 23:28:23 you should have come to sgdq 23:29:09 quintopia: are you there? do you run? 23:29:15 there are at least four people shuffling tiles at any time for at least 8 hours every day 23:29:30 yeah im here no i dont run 23:29:32 I know the guy responsible for that 23:29:35 sadly it's in the US 23:29:55 who is respons8ble 23:30:24 George Lu iirc 23:30:30 no wait 23:30:32 Liu-Krason 23:30:52 quinthellopia! hellorcah! 23:32:49 what you doing this weekend boily? 23:33:14 not playing mahjong in london with me 23:34:00 of course not. hes always busy 23:38:16 Québec City this weekend, for my dad's birthday ^^ 23:38:52 I shuffled last Sunday. nothing like the good old haneman. 6100 each. mwah ah ah. 23:40:51 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:41:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:48:14 boily: nice 23:48:19 boily: came close to a couple baimen 23:49:32 sweet! 23:49:48 (uhm... I doubt baimen is the correct plural, but it's cromulent...) 23:54:33 <\oren\> screw it I guess I'm gonna bingewatch spongebob now 23:54:39 <\oren\> I'm ready I'm ready I'm ready I'm ready 2017-07-05: 00:06:48 can anyone recommend a good linux curses hex editor 00:06:52 last one I tried can't delete bytes 00:07:25 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:07:41 can't use vim and xxd like usual because my problem is specifically that vim is being dumb with line endings 00:09:05 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 00:10:11 he\\oren\! 00:10:24 alercah: have you tried :set backspace=2 ? 00:11:13 hexcurse? 00:12:01 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:12:05 hexcurse seems good, ty 00:12:11 -!- augur has joined. 00:13:41 aurgh. can't delete :( 00:27:25 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas-ZzZzZzZz. 00:34:35 -!- Akaibu has joined. 00:36:32 dammit 00:40:48 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:45:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:48:31 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:49:15 Heh. Amazon said they'd be dispatching this order on July 4rd... and true enough, at 23:47 local time they did. 00:49:25 "4rd". 01:02:39 -!- relrod has quit (Quit: .). 01:04:28 -!- relrod has joined. 01:06:20 -!- relrod has quit (Changing host). 01:06:20 -!- relrod has joined. 01:08:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:13:28 -!- erkin has joined. 01:18:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:24:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:41:31 -!- ski has joined. 01:45:46 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 01:48:21 <__kerbal__> I am still thinking about building TapeLang... what languages should I include? 01:49:26 tapeworms 01:51:13 <__kerbal__> Is that the language with the INFECT command? 02:02:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NEGOTIATION CHICKEN). 02:02:34 -!- boily has joined. 02:03:24 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 02:13:19 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:14:13 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 02:15:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:17:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:12:45 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 03:14:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:17:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:18:31 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 03:22:24 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:25:10 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:25:41 oerjan: grooks are tg 03:28:17 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:33:59 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:49:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:34:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:48:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:06:09 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:12:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:16:21 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 06:29:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:36:53 `wisdom by?one 06:37:07 That's not wise. 06:37:19 `wisdom ? 06:37:21 of//Of this incident we shall never speak again. 06:38:43 oh that grook 06:43:34 -!- asie has joined. 06:43:47 I've been woken up from my not-being-here 06:43:58 just briefly, though 06:44:32 `welcome asie 06:44:32 * oerjan prepares the zombie spray 06:44:34 asie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 06:44:46 good idea oerjan 06:45:02 It's mostly because someone contacted me about DOBELA, and I'm said as I was 12 at the time and so remember nothing about my original intentions 06:45:08 I'm sad* 06:45:40 shocking 07:03:18 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:13:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:42:30 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:59:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:06:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:18:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:30:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:35:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:52:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:41:26 -!- augur has joined. 09:46:04 -!- erkin has joined. 10:07:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:22:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:59 oerjan: I was asking about sorting algorithms that can use three-valued comparison efficiently, or something like that, right? 10:23:06 Is quicksort a good example? 10:33:21 -!- augur has joined. 10:37:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:48:55 oerjan: Yep, there's a lot of people talking about how quicksort can be much better with three-way comparison. 10:58:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_national_flag_problem 11:35:25 -!- boily has joined. 11:41:17 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:50:02 `5 w 11:50:21 1/2:spämmer//Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product. \ resume//A resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment. \ epimorphism//An epimorphism is just a monomorphism in the opposite category. \ finland//Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of the 11:50:22 `n 11:50:23 2/2:m are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. \ rdocscovery//Rdocscoveries include footballs, how bored one person can get, and Budapest. 11:51:32 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 12:25:09 -!- Remavas-ZzZzZzZz has changed nick to Remavas. 12:28:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HUGE CHICKEN). 12:40:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:47:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:54:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:18:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:59:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:05:13 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:21:43 -!- Cale has joined. 14:35:29 -!- Mew_ has joined. 14:36:35 G'evening 14:44:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:11:58 https://gyazo.com/e4dc2193464b8cab5aecd2e3b0d4c4db 15:12:01 https://gyazo.com/8db3dad7aee86673922baa992acf9dc1 15:12:05 got variables working 15:12:20 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:13:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:25:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:34:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:38:23 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:48:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:51:15 -!- Mew_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:02:03 . o O ( please use a pastebin ) 16:12:47 "The ZeroClipboard library provides an easy way to copy text to the clipboard using an invisible Adobe Flash movie and a JavaScript interface." - I was happier not knowing this. 16:14:50 ew 16:18:16 How about this description. "A modern JavaScript utility library delivering modularity, performance & extras." 16:19:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:23:16 int-e: https://xkcd.com/763/ 16:24:08 you're right, I really shouldn't be looking at the gyazo source code. 16:27:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:32:45 "Promisification on steroids" http://bluebirdjs.com/docs/features.html 16:32:53 it's a whole new world of awfulness! 16:33:45 (bluebird may actually be a lesser of the evils... though I'm afraid to look under the hood0 16:33:48 ) 16:37:09 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 16:37:27 `olist 1079 16:37:43 olist 1079: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 16:38:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:56:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:58:53 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:01:33 <\oren\> github gists are a good pastebin if you plan on editing them 17:02:27 😎 17:05:21 -!- Fungusot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:10:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:31:00 <\oren\> is this fake news or did I just accidentally planeshift again 17:31:13 <\oren\> Microsoft founder Bill Gates has called on Europe to stop demonstrating generosity towards asylum seekers to avoid an overwhelming migrant influx. He also advises European states to make Africans’ way to the continent much more difficult 17:38:14 I think "fake news" is the name for real news, so that's probably not fake news but news that is fake 17:50:20 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 17:50:30 -!- sdhand has joined. 17:50:40 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 17:50:40 -!- sdhand has joined. 17:50:40 -!- Mew_ has joined. 17:51:02 \oren\: doesn't sound like Bill Gates 17:52:02 -!- augur has joined. 18:12:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:14:50 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:25:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:31:00 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 18:33:48 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:39:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:44:49 -!- Remavas has joined. 18:47:54 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:48:10 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:52:38 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 18:52:47 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:52:52 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 18:54:06 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:54:28 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:55:58 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:56:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:22:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:24:14 -!- ybden has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:25:14 -!- ybden has joined. 19:37:28 `5 w 19:37:34 1/1:kmc//kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013. \ reversal//lasrever \ rain//Rain is a natural bird repellent. Also chickens. \ blsq//See: Burlesque \ myname//myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. 19:52:01 -!- SOLEIL has joined. 19:52:06 -!- SOLEIL has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:23 <\oren\> brb installing CNN app so I can rate it 0 stars 20:14:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:17:12 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 20:17:55 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:15 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:19:54 -!- Remavas has joined. 20:23:13 -!- erkin has joined. 20:24:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:07:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:13:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:18:55 -!- Mew_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:24:41 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:38:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:43:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:14:00 Cale: in dystopian 2017, all math homework is multiple-choice 22:14:58 In Hebrew, multiple choice questions are colloquially called "American questions". 22:17:16 hahahhaa 22:34:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:37:01 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 22:38:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:39:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:46:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:52:54 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 22:53:35 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:53:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:57:24 hi ais523 22:57:35 hi 22:57:55 is there a good algorithm to filter signal from repetitious noise 23:00:23 I thought I had one a while ago, but after I actually implemented it it turned out not to work 23:00:29 either that or I screwed something up 23:01:41 my guess at a simple algorithm for doing that, though, would be to start off with a fourier transform of the whole thing, largest component is probably the frequency of the noise 23:01:41 then separate the input into sections equal to the period of the noise, take the average of each of those sections, that's going to be pretty close to the noise itself 23:01:41 and then subtract 23:01:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:02:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:02:24 what's the last you saw? my internet keeps getting disconnected 23:02:39 I already typed "spectral mean subtraction is a classic simple thing for stationary noise" and now you've pretty much obsoleted it. 23:03:10 OK, so " and then subtract" got through? 23:03:16 Yes, that was the last bit. 23:03:19 I have a suspicion that when the "disconnection" happens I can send but not receive 23:03:20 yes 23:03:30 There was also a proper quit from you. 23:03:33 come to think of it, the easiest way to tell is the nick I reconnect under 23:03:40 because if I reconnect under my own nick, the quit must have got through 23:03:46 -!- augur has joined. 23:04:18 so what if the stream is lines of english text, and each line is either signal or noise entirely 23:05:17 normally line noise is fairly easy to determine from English 23:05:23 a frequency analysis would be the most obvious way to tell 23:06:07 like, whether the character distribution is similar to average englush text? 23:06:21 right 23:06:26 The character distribution, or possibly the digram or trigram one if you want fancier. 23:06:32 admittedly, I do say things like ~h=∋ᵐ\cᵐ= in conversation occasionally 23:06:37 I've seen at least one paper on language detection that was just character trigrams. 23:06:37 seems doable 23:06:47 `words --finnish 20 23:06:49 käsi kyynistäisemmall kuoranasi artiseltä heittavakauempine rostava kassasi laudelmiksi keleväliseksee taus-konstrukti tapautomautteen rakeammetristun kelemmissa nahkiytyimmissa nessäätymiin vällääni ahaavallissani otelevistuvalle rasi kasaiseviltänne 23:06:55 but even then, the frequency distribution obviously violates a null hypothesis that all characters are equally probable 23:07:12 Obviously `words sort of "noise" would defeat that. 23:07:23 i think higher character variation could be a good sign of signal in this case 23:08:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:08:11 There's also the compressibility hack, though that might not be appropriate for something as short as a "line". 23:09:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:11:57 as in things are noise if they compress too well or not at all? 23:15:09 Well, depending really on what sort of noise you're expecting. Not at all for something like uniform random characters. Admittedly that's pretty easy to detect otherwise too. 23:23:38 random text doesn't compress at all, typically 23:23:50 obviously, due to the nature of randomness, it does sometimes, but that's very rare 23:29:07 If it's sampled from a non-uniform distribution, you can have a better encoding for it than a uniform length one. 23:29:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:31:06 ais523: I think I might've had something to say to you about Birmingham, but now I've completely forgotten what it was. 23:31:27 fizzie: oh well, it's unlikely I'll be able to produce a useful answer unless you remember the question and let me know what it is 23:31:55 Sorry, upon reflection it was probably York and Taneb instead. 23:32:11 And he's no longer in York either. 23:32:23 Or that's the impression I got anyway. 23:32:50 I'm still in Birmingham 23:39:05 . o O ( and despite all this moving around, no uk #esolangers have met yet that i recall ) 23:39:38 um * #esotericers 23:39:59 isn't there a theory that the Hexhamers met by accident but didn't recognise each other? 23:40:10 THAUSIBLE 23:40:11 Hexham's small enough that there's a decent possibility 23:45:25 Have you been to Hexham? 23:45:32 no 23:45:50 I haven't been significantly north of the Manchester/Sheffield line, unless you count being in a plane flying to/from Canada 23:46:13 Are you still in Birmingham? 23:46:18 yes 23:46:24 `? birmingham 23:46:26 Birmingham is a city in England. We're planning to turn it into a floating island so ais523 can get around a bit more. 23:46:44 Why doesn't ais523 want to leave Birmingham? 23:46:46 and birmingham is still where it used to be. for now. 23:47:06 shachaf: I leave it temporarily every now and then 23:47:21 but so far haven't had a good enough reason to move out permanently, and it's unlikely one will happen 23:47:30 I'm not very good at living away from home (even if it's just a holiday in a hotel) 23:47:42 Home is where your cat is. 23:48:17 Why is Birmingham home? 23:48:24 well I was born here 23:48:30 ais523 has a cat? 23:48:33 and have lived in the same house almost all my life 23:48:35 oerjan: no 23:49:03 that makes it my home pretty much by default 23:49:10 <__kerbal__> Is `w equivalent to `? 23:49:16 (the first few weeks of my life were spent in a hospital) 23:50:16 __kerbal__: no. `? looks up a particular wisdom, `w a random one. 23:50:31 `w ngevd 23:50:32 ngevd//ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also t​swett‼ 23:50:48 `? 23:50:49 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:50:55 shachaf: you cannot demonstrate that without ruining your terminal QED 23:50:56 OK, that's the difference 23:51:09 That's one of the differences. 23:51:14 `w oo 23:51:16 ​`whoops//`whoops is a repluralizer. 23:51:19 `w oo 23:51:20 cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. 23:51:39 Why do you want to continue living in the same house? 23:51:51 <__kerbal__> Thanks 23:51:55 is this a case of ? shachaf 23:52:09 shachaf: moving is very difficult, especially when you have decade's worth of accumulated things 23:52:27 shachaf: i've been tempted to `? shachaf for several minutes. 23:52:33 oerjan: I figured. 23:52:34 it's sort-of like a hash table, if I need something I'll know where it'll likely be, but accumulating eveyrthing I own would be much harder 23:52:43 `grwp oo 23:52:48 ​☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ `3:`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone. \ _46bit:_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. \ abnf:Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular 23:53:10 I've never lived in the same house or flat for a decade. 23:53:43 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:54:58 oerjan: We should fix `5 so that `1 is the obvious generalization of `4. 23:55:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:55:34 wat 23:55:40 `? `1 23:55:42 ​`1 is equivalent to `` , except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly almost the obvious generalization of `4. 23:55:54 I.e. not make it default to `5 q 23:56:15 ais523: How much is a decadesworth of accumulated things? 23:56:28 I mean, how much time would it take to rehash? 23:56:48 This is the reason I still don't have some furniture here. It seems like it would be difficult to move. 23:57:11 i have still not rehashed after i moved 4 years ago. no idea which bag most of my things are in. 23:57:47 Did you move from Trondheim to Trondheim? 23:57:51 yes 23:57:58 Should I leave the San Francisco Bay area? 23:58:02 It's pretty expensive. 23:59:33 `cat bin/1 23:59:34 ​\` "$@" |& sport 23:59:39 `cat bin/2 23:59:40 ​\` "$@" |& sport 2 23:59:45 `cat bin/3 23:59:46 eval "$(shuf -n 1 <<'END' \ \` "$@" |& sport 3 \ cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 3 "$cmd" \ END \ )" 23:59:52 `cat bin/4 23:59:52 cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 4 "$cmd" 23:59:59 `cat bin/5 2017-07-06: 00:00:00 cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd" 00:00:11 `cat bin/`^ 00:00:11 ​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport 00:00:51 Or maybe I should exploit the proletariat to become rich? 00:00:58 Or am I already doing that? 00:00:59 `cat bin/` 00:00:59 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl 00:02:06 shachaf: I don't know, but probably far too long 00:02:17 `slwd bin/`//s,[$]1,$cmd,;1acmd="${1-quote}" 00:02:17 Roswbud! 00:02:22 `sled bin/`//s,[$]1,$cmd,;1acmd="${1-quote}" 00:02:24 bin/`//#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooodl 00:02:34 `` echo hi 00:02:35 hi 00:02:36 `` 00:02:37 522) what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it 00:02:48 `1 00:02:49 1/1:1087) im not a doctor when it comes to muscles 00:03:13 oerjan: WRONG WAY tdnh 00:03:36 `slwd `1//s,almost ,, 00:03:38 ​`1//`1 is equivalent to `` , except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4. 00:03:56 DISAGREEMENT 00:05:28 `2 00:05:29 2/1: 00:05:40 `n 00:05:40 ``^ 2 00:05:41 1/1:909) Bike: the best acid? where is it? 00:05:41 HackEgo: they say that you can't break an amulet of yendor is a smart move. 00:05:41 Usage: /hackenv/bin/`^ n cmd 00:08:13 hm 00:08:23 `cat bin/`^ 00:08:23 ​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport 00:08:46 oh well 00:09:22 wait what 00:09:44 `` echo fungot 00:09:44 shachaf: they say that a gold doubloon is extremely vain. 00:09:45 fungot 00:09:45 HackEgo: they say that it's not what you eat. being required to do it, but, trusting his own authority. those children, because i knew this time i meant to scare, but of adjudicating in the _atiku_ festival in babylon, uruk and other quiet games of the fairies rather nasty people to make sense. 00:09:54 fizzie: fungot seems to no longer be ignoring HackEgo 00:09:54 oerjan: if you really can't. 00:10:40 ?where test 00:10:40 * lambdabot tests 00:10:47 > var "functor" 00:10:48 er 00:10:49 functor 00:10:51 > var "fungot" 00:10:51 shachaf: playing billiards pays when you cross it. 00:10:53 fungot 00:10:53 lambdabot: booksellers never read scrolls; they might not have fiery breath or deadly stings, but none looked aside from the fact that all his soldiers gnashed their teeth, creating a tremendous vice-like bite... piranhas are attracted to any other of the damned to hell. 00:11:10 ?where+ test ^style irc 00:11:10 It is stored. 00:11:11 ANARCHY 00:11:13 ?where test 00:11:13 ^style irc 00:11:13 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 00:13:02 ^show 00:13:02 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf 00:13:25 (just testing if any other data was wiped out) 00:13:46 ^botsnack 00:13:46 Oh nom nom nom! 00:14:43 ^ul (Test)S 00:14:43 Test 00:14:49 ^ul (?where test)S 00:14:49 ?where test 00:14:49 ^style irc 00:14:50 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 00:15:18 ?where+ test ^ul (?where test)S 00:15:18 Nice! 00:15:20 hth 00:16:10 ^ul (`1)S 00:16:10 `1 00:16:11 1/1:629) myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. 00:16:15 oh man 00:16:25 the whole thing is a shambles 00:18:58 ?where test 00:18:58 ^ul (?where test)S 00:18:58 ?where test 00:18:58 ^ul (?where test)S 00:18:58 ?where test 00:18:58 ^ul (?where test)S 00:18:59 ?where test 00:18:59 ^ul (?where test)S 00:18:59 ?where test 00:18:59 ^ul (?where test)S 00:18:59 ?where test 00:19:00 ^ul (?where test)S 00:19:00 ?where test 00:19:02 ^ul (?where test)S 00:19:02 ?where test 00:19:04 -!- lambdabot has left. 00:19:09 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:20:41 ?where+ test /me tests 00:20:41 Done. 00:22:04 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:26:14 oerjan: Good point. 00:26:55 fizzie: or lambdabot 00:26:57 Now it should. 00:27:18 > var "fungot" 00:27:18 oerjan: ( ( lambda ( ignored) fnord) 00:27:20 fungot 00:27:33 I had completely forgotten the ignore list isn't persisted automatically. 00:27:56 shocking 00:27:57 Normally I reset it when I tell it to join the channel, but after switching to the bouncer thing I don't need to do that after restarting it. 00:28:11 Should probably just save it in the state file too. 00:32:51 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:50:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:38:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:40:29 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 01:40:36 <__kerbal__> I'm confused (as I often am) 01:40:48 <__kerbal__> is fungot lambdabot now? 01:40:48 __kerbal__: where are you arcfide? 01:41:29 <__kerbal__> Or something bot loopy happened? 01:41:56 something loopy. 01:42:27 __kerbal__: fungot's bot ignore list had accidentally got cleared. 01:42:27 oerjan: thx for link to fnord?" 01:42:34 <__kerbal__> oh wow 01:43:07 <__kerbal__> fun 01:43:13 see explanation in logs. 01:43:18 fizzie: how easy is it to make updates to fungot? 01:43:19 ais523: godspeed you black emperor! the dead flag blues? trying to find out 01:43:36 like, can you remember what all the code does and where you'd need to change to change something 01:44:27 ^style 01:44:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:44:51 kmc_: fungot shares your taste in music hth 01:44:51 shachaf: by the way? 01:44:56 <__kerbal__> ^style europarl 01:44:56 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 01:45:22 <__kerbal__> fungot, who is Macron? 01:45:23 __kerbal__: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i should like to congratulate mr telkämper. on development issues he is one of the priorities of health, security and defence policy, which is that when the coal and steel treaty for instance that by the end of the colonial and post-colonial period, has become the basis for our sovereignty. common fisheries policy. 01:45:49 wow utf8 fail 01:45:52 <__kerbal__> maybe mr telkämper is his secretary 01:45:55 é 01:45:57 not even on my end 01:46:20 alercah: you don't have fallback charset? 01:46:47 oerjan: guess not? 01:47:59 alercah: i have recode_fallback = cp1252 as someone suggested on channel 01:48:47 what proportion of non-UTF-8 text that contains non-ASCII characters happens to be valid UTF-8? 01:49:45 Do you mean that contains bytes > 127? 01:50:56 ais523: what's your sampling methodology? 01:51:10 `? mojibake 01:51:12 _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ̦̻ͭͭͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ­_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌͨÌÌ´Í 01:51:14 alercah: I'm not sure 01:52:01 no one is answering my question about computable reals tdnh 01:52:07 p. sure the answer is yes 01:52:12 shachaf: I've given up on Stack Exchange 01:52:25 the incentives are all in favour of giving fast, incomplete answers to easy questions 01:52:44 Which incentives? 01:52:49 Internet points? 01:53:10 yes, although stack exchange places huge emphasis on them 01:53:25 I guess it's not just Internet points but also votes and green checkmarks and things. 01:53:37 but yes, they give you visibility too 01:53:44 The respect and adoration of friends, colleagues, and strangers. 01:53:54 Gotta keep churning out those answers. 01:53:57 and you can just pay 50 reputation to put a question onto a separate list to increase the chance that people see it, so you can convert internet points /into/ visibility 01:54:14 How would you fix Stack Exchange? 01:54:47 I've put a lot of thought into that but haven't come to firm conclusions 01:55:22 there are some obvious bugs that should just be fixed, like the way that if you make a short post (that gets caught in the low-quality posts filter), then you or anyone else edits it to make it better, it gets an unremovable downvote 01:55:23 -!- __kerbal___ has joined. 01:55:31 ais523: I know someone whose strategy was to answer as quick as possible 01:55:35 then refine with a series of edits 01:55:39 because of the importance of being first 01:55:43 alercah: you have to do that on some sites 01:55:57 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:56:00 if a question was new I got into the habit of posting the answer without explanation first 01:56:03 and then editing the explanation in afterwards 01:56:03 -!- __kerbal___ has changed nick to __kerbal__. 01:56:46 posting early is so important that even if the answer is wrong, it's likely to get more votes than a correct answer posted later, unless the question becomes very popular 01:56:59 exception: the answer does have to at least /look/ right, even if it isn't actually 01:58:38 I think one good fix would be to age upvotes, making it so that if a lot of answers get upvoted /over/ an answer (i.e. when both are posted), its score goes down 01:58:46 I think another good fix would be to ban voting when posts are sorted by votes 01:59:24 -!- augur has joined. 01:59:49 I'd also allow the OP of a question to downvote on it for free, regardless of their rep count, as a quick way of discouraging incorrect answers 02:00:03 (most OPs can't actually downvote on their own post due to having <125 rep) 02:00:51 I'd probably get rid of badges altogether, as they do more harm than good IMO 02:02:39 I think it might be reasonable to get rid of the new questions queue altogether (in preference to the active questions queue), increasing the chance that late answers get seen 02:05:11 * oerjan hugs his fanatic badges 02:07:12 one thing that occasionally irritates me on PPCG is that in very active periods, the active tab gets overfilled while i'm sleeping or out of the house. 02:07:38 (likelihood also depends on my current sleeping cycle) 02:08:57 it's small enough that losing information about new changes _shouldn't_ be necessary. 02:11:10 (i don't check every question, mind you.) 02:11:51 hot network questions is also probably broken, although whether it's broken or not depends rather on what its intended purpose is, which is unclear 02:12:06 Increasing engagement? 02:12:11 it tends to lower the quality of the sites it links to by rewarding trivial posts 02:12:44 and suffers badly from positive feedback (most of the possible interactions for a 101-reputation user with a post increase its HNQ score) 02:13:04 that reminds of some subreddits that explicitly asked _not_ to be on the reddit front page. 02:13:15 for essentially the same reason. 02:13:56 *+me 02:14:25 my grammar is leaving ... i can feel it ... 02:14:38 why would anyone want to be on the reddit front page 02:14:42 actually, the only interaction I can think of with a post that's possible at 101 reputation and can discourage a post from HNQ listing is flagging, and even then, only if a moderator decides to delete the post 02:15:04 shachaf: most communities, forums, etc. benefit from having more good users, that requires the potential good users to be aware of them 02:15:53 oh "going" 02:15:58 https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/130032 02:16:01 I don't understand this. 02:16:07 Does Actually use a nonstandard encoding? 02:16:33 probably, most golfing languages do because few standard encodings have 256 distinct printable characters for the 256 octets 02:16:39 Oh, yes. 02:16:47 It uses CP437. 02:16:48 Makes sense. 02:17:22 although all those characters are in the extended-CP437 variant which has a printable glyph over each control code too 02:18:52 <__kerbal__> Maybe someone should make a language where ALL the assigned characters in UTF-8 do something... 2,164,864 commands, here we come! 02:19:12 <__kerbal__> (assuming that every unicode character is assigned eventually) 02:19:19 someone tried that on Esolang, but they probably shouldn't have started by making blank pages for each Unicode range 02:19:30 listing all the characters and not-yet-assigned for the resulting assignment 02:19:53 admittedly, I do say things like ~h=∋ᵐ\cᵐ= in conversation occasionally <-- how do you pronounce it twh 02:19:55 from a golfing point of view, though, you don't actually want a very large command set because more commands means more bytes to represent each command 02:20:02 or at least, if you do, it should be Huffman coding 02:20:02 <__kerbal__> true. 02:20:08 oerjan: most of my conversations are done typed 02:20:11 <__kerbal__> But, they can be extremely specific 02:20:26 so often I don't know how a specific word and/or program is pronounced 02:21:19 but you'd probably expand command mnemonics into a description, so "unhead equal element each transpose concat each equal" 02:21:30 <__kerbal__> the "increment a by 1, print the value at b + 4, input 5 chars" command could be ޘ 02:22:10 <__kerbal__> assuming a and b and b + 4 are on a stack 02:22:33 <__kerbal__> (I guess b + 4 would be 5 elements down from a) 02:22:58 ais523: It's not *too* bad. I remember the big blocks, and there's even a few comments. It's not written in a particularly compact way, and the larger structures make functional sense. 02:23:25 So you basically have to just decode a dozen-or-so-lines subprogram in order to change things. 02:23:40 <__kerbal__> do you have a link to the esolang? 02:23:44 Also there's a list at the bottom as to what things are stored where in the fungespace. 02:24:04 (Though that documentation might not quite be up to date.) 02:24:29 __kerbal__: https://esolangs.org/wiki/UniCode is at least one of them; it's possible it's been attempted more than once though 02:25:29 ais523: that's the one that annoyed ehird, anyway. 02:25:49 <__kerbal__> Did some of the commands get removed? 02:27:56 __kerbal__: not sure what you mean by "assigned character in UTF-8", since the number of Unicode scalar values is only 1,112,064. 02:28:07 __kerbal__: i think it was mostly just the heaps of unassigned characters 02:29:12 <__kerbal__> Warrigal_: I'm not very familiar with Unicode, so I just pulled that number off of Google without doing enough research, admittedly 02:30:12 Must have come from this answer... https://stackoverflow.com/a/38488358/1108505 02:30:21 the maximum Unicode codepoint is 1114111, which is a very easy number to remember 02:30:22 > maxBound :: Char 02:30:24 '\1114111' 02:30:38 but many numbers in the 0..1114111 range aren't assigned, and some are officially never going to be assigned 02:30:44 The number of code points which UTF-8 *actually* supports is 1,112,064; they're exactly the Unicode scalar values. 02:30:47 <__kerbal__> It diެd! 02:31:01 the "these characters will never be assigned" values are sometimes not included in the total 02:31:02 <__kerbal__> Yeah, I was off 02:31:08 <__kerbal__> By a lot 02:31:36 The total number of Unicode code points is 1,114,112, and every Unicode code point has an "obvious" UTF-8 encoding, but 2,048 of them are prohibited. 02:31:36 (strangely, IIRC 1114111 itself is one of them, not 100% sure on that though) 02:31:58 Warrigal_: wait, /just/ surrogates? 02:32:02 what about things like the byte-flipped BOM? 02:32:12 that one is prohibited for an obvious reason :-D 02:32:15 I'm *pretty* sure that's legal to encode in UTF-8. 02:32:25 It's not a legal *character*, of course. 02:33:41 if that's legal, I don't see why the surrogates wouldn't be too 02:33:59 Lemme see if I can find the official word. 02:35:07 <__kerbal__> mޫޫyޫ bޫaޫd 02:35:19 <__kerbal__> combining characters are fun! 02:35:33 "The Unicode Standard supports three character encoding forms: UTF-32, UTF-16, and 02:35:33 UTF-8. Each encoding form maps the 02:35:33 Unicode code points U+0000..U+D7FF and 02:35:33 U+E000..U+10FFFF to unique code unit sequences." 02:35:40 Ugh, the whitespace. 02:36:14 what /is/ that whitespace made of? 02:36:32 <__kerbal__> What whitespace? 02:36:41 <__kerbal__> Oh, I see... 02:36:51 `unidecode 02:36:52 ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] 02:36:54 `unidecode [ | | ] 02:36:54 ​[U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+007C VERTICAL LINE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+007C VERTICAL LINE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET] 02:37:18 <__kerbal__> ⓞⓚ 02:37:22 hmm, it didn't really highlight like pairs of spaces, but I guess it is 02:38:04 Anyway, that's the official word. All Unicode scalar values are legal for encoding, and nothing else is. 02:38:09 <__kerbal__> ╔════╗ 02:38:19 <__kerbal__> ║ ║ 02:38:50 <__kerbal__> ╚════╝ 02:41:41 <__kerbal__> ╔════╗ 02:41:48 <__kerbal__> ║    ║ 02:41:54 <__kerbal__> ╚════╝ 02:42:31 All right, I'm trying to implement mathematics in Lua. 02:42:33 All of it. 02:42:48 Right now I'm writing the definition of a category. 02:43:16 I've got stuff such as: 02:43:17 add_eqn('_identity_domain', domain .. identity, object.id) 02:44:28 <__kerbal__> ╔════╗ 02:44:33 <__kerbal__> ╔══╗ 02:44:44 <__kerbal__> Ok, I need practice 02:44:50 Which means: "The axiom '_identity_domain' asserts that taking the domain of the identity morphism of an object is the same as performing the identity operation on that object." 02:44:57 Warrigal_: give a shout when you get around to inter-universal teichmüller theory twh 02:45:55 oerjan: roger. 02:46:38 Now, I want to be able to read and write axioms such as this one pointfully. 02:46:50 This axiom currently pretty-prints as: 02:46:51 _identity_domain : domain . identity = 1_object; 02:47:00 But I'd rather it pretty-print as, say: 02:47:15 _identity_domain : forall (x : object), domain(identity(x)) = x; 02:47:26 <__kerbal__> ╔════╗ 02:47:33 <__kerbal__> ║╔══╗║ 02:47:40 <__kerbal__> ║║╔╗║║ 02:47:49 <__kerbal__> ║║╚╝║║ 02:47:55 <__kerbal__> ║╚══╝║ 02:48:02 <__kerbal__> ╚════╝ 02:49:18 * oerjan aims an arrow >----> 02:49:27 *TWANG* 02:51:53 Good afternoerjan. 02:51:59 Did you see my comment about quicksort? 02:52:16 I was reading about quicksort and as far as I can tell every single implementation of it is misguided? 02:54:15 Nyow, how am I going to implement the pointfulness thing. 02:54:35 I guess I can start by implementing... expressions. 02:55:07 An expression has a context and blah blah blah blah blah. 02:58:04 shachaf: i hear it's not even O(n log n) 02:59:09 Hey, I thought of a question once. 02:59:11 -!- Warrigal_ has changed nick to t_swett. 02:59:15 And I thought it was an interesting question. 02:59:27 https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2071246/how-many-rounds-are-required-in-a-swiss-tournament-sorting-algorithm 03:00:25 oerjan: you're not even O(n log n) hth 03:00:28 "You're organizing a Swiss-style tournament with N players of a game. 03:00:34 "The game is a two-player game, and it results in one winner and one loser. The players are totally ordered by skill, and whenever two players play against each other, the more skilled player always wins. 03:00:39 "In each tournament round, each player can play only one game. Going into the tournament, nothing is known about the relative skill levels of the players. The pairings for each round are not decided until the previous round has finished, so you can use the results from previous rounds when you're deciding how to pair the players up. You are not required to follow any traditional pairing rules. 03:00:43 let { h = n; t = log } in hth 03:00:45 "Your goal is to completely determine the ranking of all N players. What is Swiss(N), the number of rounds required in the worst case?" 03:02:04 The answerer here stated that "asking for the number of tournaments Swiss(n) is the same as asking for the span of an optimal parallel sorting network." 03:02:41 Yep. 03:02:50 I think that's been discussed here before. 03:03:29 Ah, but you're saying it might be more flexible than a sorting network? 03:03:34 Yeah. 03:03:54 I don't see any reason why this couldn't give, say, a 95% speed up in the limit as N goes to infinity. 03:03:59 Doesn't seem like you can get much out of that, but I don't know. 03:04:01 ...I meant to say a 5% speed up. 03:04:10 A 95% speed up seems kind of extreme. 03:04:27 You should measure slowness, not speed. 03:04:30 It's a better unit. 03:04:59 Anyway, you should figure out how to write quicksort for me. 03:06:11 Everyone is passing the wrong argument: They pass 0,n-1 instead of 0,n 03:11:05 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:11:17 t_swett: you clearly need at least ceil(log_2(N)) to determine the winner, worst-case; so that gives a lower bound 03:11:28 however I don't think it's always possible to determine the places in between that quickly 03:13:17 ais523: yeah, I calculated that at least log2(N!)/⌊N/2⌋ rounds are required. 03:13:51 oh, because otherwise there are fewer unique resultsets than there are orders 03:14:36 > let swisslower n = log (product [1..n]) / log 2 / fromIntegral (div n 2) in map swisslower [2..] 03:14:38 error: 03:14:38 • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M869356298349... 03:14:38 prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved. 03:14:47 > let swisslower n = log (product [1..n]) / log 2 / fromIntegral (div n 2) in map swisslower [2..] :: [Double] 03:14:49 error: 03:14:49 • No instance for (Integral Double) 03:14:49 arising from a use of ‘swisslower’ 03:15:06 :t log 03:15:07 > let swisslower n = log (product [1..fromIntegral n]) / log 2 / fromIntegral (div n 2) in map swisslower [2..] :: [Double] 03:15:08 Floating a => a -> a 03:15:09 [1.0,2.584962500721156,2.2924812503605785,3.4534452978042594,3.1639510321098... 03:15:37 :t ceil 03:15:38 error: Variable not in scope: ceil 03:16:06 So for N = 2, 3, 4, we get lower bounds of 1, 3, 3, which I found are exact. 03:16:20 For N = 5 and 6, we get lower bounds of 4 and 4. 03:17:00 :t ceiling 03:17:01 (Integral b, RealFrac a) => a -> b 03:17:25 > let swisslower n = ceiling (log (product [1..fromIntegral n]) / log 2 / fromIntegral (div n 2)) in map swisslower [2..] :: [Int] 03:17:27 [1,3,3,4,4,5,4,5,5,6,5,6,6,6,6,7,6,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,8,7,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,9... 03:17:40 I like the dismonotonies, but they make sense 03:17:51 They're kind of cute. 03:18:13 Hmm, is it actually possible that Swiss isn't monotonic? 03:18:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:18:20 although the /actual/ value must be monotonic 03:18:26 imagine adding a dummy player who loses every game 03:18:28 then removing them at the end 03:18:39 Right, right. 03:18:58 I knew you could add a dummy player, but I wasn't immediately sure how that would actually affect stuff. 03:19:27 ...is that right? 03:19:33 That any strategy that works for 6 players also works for 5 players? 03:19:38 yep 03:19:39 Yeah, yeah. 03:19:56 Whenever we're supposed to pit someone against the dummy player, we instead just give that person a bye and assume that they won. 03:20:01 This _ is very confusing. 03:20:21 It is, in fact, possible to have a player who's worse than everyone else, so we're not losing anything here or whatever. 03:20:23 It makes you look like another person who has _ in their nick in the same place. 03:20:49 I know of no such person. 03:20:59 preusmably b_jonas is the other person 03:21:04 whose nick has a similar shape 03:21:06 No, c_wraith 03:21:17 Hmm. I agree or w/e. 03:21:20 -!- t_swett has changed nick to tswe_tt. 03:21:24 I didn't even think of b_jonas. 03:21:26 There, much better. 03:25:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:39:48 -!- Zarutian has joined. 03:45:20 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:51:30 -!- doesthiswork has changed nick to d_oesthiswork. 04:10:11 <\oren\> http://imgur.com/a/6TibM 04:13:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:20:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:21:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:27:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:30:12 copumpkin: hipumpkin 04:30:25 copumpkin: do you read irc or just twitter twh 05:03:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 05:10:00 -!- d_oesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 05:40:20 -!- Mayoi has joined. 05:40:27 -!- erkin has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:40:31 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin. 05:43:00 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 05:46:02 https://plus.google.com/+DanPiponi/posts/RpwQAD4jTrb 05:56:08 shachaf: rarely IRC nowadays except for a couple of channels a bit more often (but not very often still) :) 05:59:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 06:01:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:02:49 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:10:24 copumpkin: scow 06:10:56 -!- _keemyb_ has joined. 06:11:37 -!- Lord_of_- has joined. 06:19:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:22:23 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:22:24 -!- keemyb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:22:24 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:22:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:23:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:23:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:26:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:28:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:29:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:46:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:57:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:59:10 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:01:08 -!- xa0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:03:13 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:03:41 -!- puckipedia has joined. 07:06:27 -!- xa0 has joined. 07:20:04 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:24:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:37:12 -!- erkin has joined. 07:49:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:01:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:14:12 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:15:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 08:17:34 -!- erkin has joined. 08:19:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:21:00 -!- Guest77422 has joined. 08:26:20 -!- Guest77422 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:27:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:30:13 -!- Mayoi has joined. 08:32:03 -!- erkin has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:32:05 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin. 08:51:31 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:52:20 -!- Mayoi has joined. 08:53:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:54:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:55:30 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:23:58 -!- augur has joined. 09:34:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:02:41 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 10:53:03 -!- augur has joined. 11:03:51 -!- Mayoi has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 11:27:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:33:55 -!- boily has joined. 11:34:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:38:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:38:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 12:16:46 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:24:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMMENT CHICKEN). 12:24:37 -!- augur has joined. 12:43:53 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:57:35 -!- __kerbal___ has joined. 12:57:39 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:57:48 -!- __kerbal___ has changed nick to __kerbal__. 12:59:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:08:06 <__kerbal__> ║ ║ ╔════ ╔════ ╔════╗ ═══╦═══ ╔════ ╔════╗ ═══╦═══ ╔════ 13:08:11 <__kerbal__> ══╬══╬══ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ 13:08:17 <__kerbal__> ║ ║ ╠════ ╚═══╗ ║ ║ ║ ╠════ ╠═╦══╝ ║ ║ 13:08:22 <__kerbal__> ══╬══╬══ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╚═╗ ║ ║ 13:08:27 <__kerbal__> ║ ║ ╚════ ════╝ ╚════╝ ║ ╚════ ║ ╚═ ═══╩═══ ╚════ 13:11:42 ugh. 13:13:30 * __kerbal__ wants to know why int-e is disgusted 13:17:00 well 5 lines are spam, especially when they become 10: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ugh.png 13:20:01 <__kerbal__> sorry 13:30:20 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:56:07 -!- augur has joined. 14:00:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:08:07 Uh-oh, the wiki seems to be down. 14:08:25 On the positive side, at least this time I got an alert email about it. 14:09:54 `ping 14:09:57 On the negative side, it's not answering to SSH and I don't have access to the CaC control panels, so it's not like there's anything I can do, except mention Gregor by name in case he can poke at it. 14:10:31 . o O ( Do not invoke the name of Gregor in vain. ) 14:10:37 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:11:20 . o O ( Okay, next time I should check whether HackEgo is present before trying `ping. ) 14:16:34 interesting, the 5 spam libes look horrible here 14:32:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:33:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:34:25 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 14:34:38 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 14:34:38 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 14:34:38 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 14:34:38 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 14:34:52 <__kerbal__> I guess that I should use a pastebin the next time I have an overwhelming urge to create character art 14:43:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:58:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:05:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:06:06 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:06:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 15:24:08 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:29:49 -!- augur has joined. 15:46:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:01:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:14:11 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: thunderstorm). 16:17:48 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:30:10 -!- augur has joined. 16:34:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:43:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:43:45 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:46:33 -!- erkin has joined. 16:47:29 -!- Melvar has joined. 16:52:25 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:28:08 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:32:43 -!- erkin has joined. 17:34:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:35:44 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:39:29 <\oren\> when the fog rolls in from the bog, there are frogs and logs in prague 17:40:05 are the logs light enough to be carried by the fog? 17:40:13 dubious 17:41:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:41:36 <\oren\> i dunno I was thinking there should be a children's book that teaches kids european jografy 17:43:00 <\oren\> because apparently even most adults don't know where prague is 17:47:55 -!- erkin has joined. 17:53:28 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:00:31 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 18:00:40 -!- sdhand has joined. 18:00:49 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 18:00:49 -!- sdhand has joined. 18:13:54 -!- erkin has joined. 18:17:33 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:18:16 If I make an esoteric language, it's ok if I write code that is less efficient but shows off the abstraction capabilities of the programming language better, right? 18:19:42 In particular, I want to implement arithmetic in the core language (to show that it's possible, even though it would be better to add fast arithmetic functions in the interpreter itself). The best way would be by various unrolled fixed size loops with large repetitive tables, 18:20:01 but instead I'll try to write short human-readable code that does arithmetic much slower. 18:20:19 I guess I should just note that in comments/. 18:20:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:24:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:24:53 I will have to implement integer division too 18:42:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:53:12 yeah, that's like "The evolution of a Haskell programmer" 18:56:39 " I have a suspicion that when the "disconnection" happens I can send but not receive" => that happens to me too 18:58:25 It used to happen to lambdabot too... now it's sending regular ping messages to detect the situation. 18:59:48 local or remote ping? 19:00:08 ok, sorry, stupid question 19:06:39 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:07:17 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 19:07:22 " I'm not very good at living away from home (even if it's just a holiday in a hotel) / and have lived in the same house almost all my life" => me neither. I just spent two and a half weeks away, which 19:08:30 , which? 19:08:47 is quite a long time as these things go, but it was easy mode because I was visiting my brother and stayed in his house. I moved out from my parents one and a half years ago, so this is the third house I live in permanently (but I have spent a significant amount of time in my parent's summer cottage too). 19:09:04 I'm just typing slow 19:09:18 you're 19:09:28 forgiven ;-) 19:11:23 " shachaf: moving is very difficult, especially when you have decade's worth of accumulated things" => indeed: a lot of my accumulated stuff (including books) is still in my parent's house. 19:14:39 also, I moved out in easy mode: to the same city and into an apartment where my brother has previously lived and they have restored it really well so I can trust the apartment 19:19:50 " what proportion of non-UTF-8 text that contains non-ASCII characters happens to be valid UTF-8?" - almost no text is accidentally valid utf-8 as far as I've seen, 19:20:25 but there's a certain text compression scheme whose compressed form is deliberately valid utf-8 19:20:43 (and possibly non-ascii) 19:21:53 " the incentives are all in favour of giving fast, incomplete answers to easy questions" - sure, but that's a general problem that happens a lot outside of SE too 19:23:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:28:32 " although all those characters are in the extended-CP437 variant which has a printable glyph over each control code too" => EXTENDED? that's the original version. cp437 is what the CGA and monochrome cards, the video cards always had all 256 characters in text mode, 19:29:41 * oerjan isn't sure that ais523 logreads. 19:29:43 although some printer control languages and some PC software use text formats that allow you to use only a subset, with teletype-like control codes (where at least carriage return is a control char) 19:30:58 My understanding is that "is this valid UTF-8" is more-or-less a perfect heuristic for detecting UTF-8 text. 19:31:10 Unlike most other encoding schemes. 19:32:20 pikhq: no, it does fail for some stuff with only ascii bytes 19:32:23 Among what other encodings? 19:32:30 but ais523 did ask for stuff with non-ascii bytes 19:32:35 Okay, okay, "is this valid UTF-8 and not ASCII". 19:32:37 It doesn't work for any other seven-bit encoding presumably. 19:32:58 pikhq: how's colorado twh 19:33:01 Though if it's all 7 bit, then frankly you can just assume it's US-ASCII and *probably* be right. 19:33:04 shachaf: Quite nice. 19:33:37 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:33:41 (I know there are many, many other 7 bit charsets, but who actually *uses* them outside of closed environments?) 19:34:04 Is there a non-US ASCII? 19:34:37 US-ASCII is the MIME preferred name, so that's what I use. 19:34:46 ASCII silly question, get a silly ANSI 19:34:47 shachaf: yes, it's called iso646 encodings 19:34:50 There are non-US ASCII-like charsets. 19:34:55 ISO-646. 19:34:55 lol 19:35:16 US-ASCII is the ISO-646 US encoding. 19:35:51 ASCII also has some fancy name with an X and a number in it 19:36:08 Rather a lot of countries have their own similar but not quite ASCII-compatible encodings. 19:36:51 *These*, incidentally, are actually the origin for C trigraphs. 19:37:06 The characters represented by trigraphs are not guaranteed to be invariant in ISO-646. 19:37:53 It just so happens that IBM's mainframes are the only actual users now, because IBM still *uses* charsets where they aren't guaranteed to exist, or can vary from charset to charset. 19:39:12 yes, although there's also the 7-bit SMS character set, which sort of looks like an iso-646 because the brackets are replaced, but it also puts printable characters to most of the control character codes 19:39:26 Though they do say that if you run C stuff without the charset being a CP 1047 compatible one, stuff breaks. 19:39:32 and gets lots of use 19:39:39 (CP 1047 19:40:05 's variants guarantee the ASCII set exists and is encoded identically. Those are used in the IBM mainframe POSIX environment, generally) 19:40:15 True, but that's the very definition of a closed system. 19:40:44 And you will never need a heuristic to detect the SMS charset in use; it's marked in the packet. 19:42:50 Oh, facepalm. 19:43:24 One of the options is "unspecified 8-bit charset". 19:43:28 Thanks, GSM. 19:52:00 `thanks GSM 19:52:13 oops 19:52:17 fizzie!!! 19:53:07 oerjan: See few hours back re the machine being down. 19:53:13 OKAY 19:54:43 I took the name of Gregor in not-vain on channel already, though "idle: 11 days 10 hours 47 mins 19 secs" does not fill me with confidence. 19:54:50 Here's a challenge. Without looking at Knuth's TAOCP, using only secondary resources instead, try to find evidence that in the MIX computer, the CMPA and CMP1 instructions with field specification compares the selected field of rA or rI1 resp, rather than the entire rA or rI1 resp. 19:55:41 I've googled for this, and the various informal descriptions of MIX out there on the internet always omit this curious detail. This came up because I'll try to write an entry on the esowiki for MIX. 19:58:06 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 20:02:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:04:45 <__kerbal__> Here's the box drawing I made earlier, but WITHOUT spamming the channel this time: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25033876/ 20:05:24 <__kerbal__> By box-drawing I mean box-drawing character drawing 20:11:53 "<\oren\> i dunno I was thinking there should be a children's book that teaches kids european jografy" => don't they do that in school? or do you mean to American kids or something? 20:14:56 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 20:14:57 reminsds me of http://sergiu.turcanu.net/wp-content/uploads/america.gif 20:18:49 hmm, the esowiki is down indeed 20:19:04 Gregor Gregor Gregor 20:19:15 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 20:19:19 Whatever is up with the server, I haven't the power to fix it right now. Kicking it did nothing. 20:19:32 <__kerbal__> Try pounding it with your fist. 20:19:43 Gregor: ouch. 20:19:46 :-/ 20:19:52 do you know who has the power to fix it? 20:19:54 thanks for trying anyway 20:20:05 I have the most power to fix it of anybody who gives a shit ;) 20:20:18 (i.e. anybody not CaC?) 20:20:27 You still use CaC? 20:20:27 But even the web control panel for CaC is barely functioning, so I assume they're aware. 20:20:34 thanks for the info 20:20:37 I thought someone in here had switched away from it. 20:20:57 It's kinda crud, so... 20:21:08 shachaf: I did, well, I canceled the toy CaC VM because it would continuously cost money. 20:21:12 @wn crud 20:21:13 *** "crud" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 20:21:13 crud 20:21:13 n 1: heavy wet snow that is unsuitable for skiing 20:21:13 2: any substance considered disgustingly foul or unpleasant 20:21:13 [syn: {filth}, {crud}, {skank}] 20:21:14 3: an ill-defined bodily ailment; "he said he had the crud and 20:21:16 needed a doctor" 20:21:25 Hmm, I don't see the nautical metaphor. 20:23:14 I don't know how many of these VMs Gregor has... might be worth the money even with their lousy service, assuming the VMs run at all. (The fee, I understood, is per account, not per server) 20:23:20 <__kerbal__> What is CaC? 20:23:33 `? CaC 20:24:01 http://www.cloudatacost.com/ ... oops, I mean http://www.cloudatcost.com/ (look at the former link though, it's a fun read) 20:24:40 I don't understand why it's called "at cost" and then charges you a one-time fee. 20:25:03 To be frank, you could probably get a better experience hanging a Pi off a cable modem. 20:25:21 int-e: Yeah, it's still SLIGHTLY worth it for me, but I have been slowly moving things away. 20:25:41 Is that supposed to be the full discounted cost? 20:25:54 Maybe you should move it all to Google Cloud. 20:26:02 Unlike fizzie you're permitted to use it. 20:26:03 shachaf: I always thought it was a pyramid scheme. 20:26:15 Well, Ponzi may be closer. But fraudulent anyway. 20:27:15 <__kerbal__> int-e: Thanks 20:28:03 <__kerbal__> So, they will give you a virtual server for a pittance? That sounds scammy 20:28:14 The trick to learning Chinese characters is that it's easy to remember them if you invent several new characters for each one you memorize. 20:28:19 It's a Hanzi scheme. 20:28:27 It's also a pittance of a virtual server. 20:28:55 <__kerbal__> They must have REALLY bad service, then 20:28:56 It's not really a scam, it just is really "you get what you pay for", particularly in terms of uptime and support. 20:29:05 <__kerbal__> I see 20:29:49 -!- MDude has joined. 20:30:19 More of a scow than a scam. 20:30:54 Moscow? 20:31:37 Moscow moproblems 20:32:43 . o O ( their order form includes scripts from fraudlabspro.com ... too funny in context ) 20:32:46 😎 20:34:50 `wisdom 20:34:57 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:35:34 but the part that I do consider fraudulent is that they don't mention the yearly fee anywhere in the order form, calling it "one time" payment (quotation marks are theirs, for what it's worth). You still have to read their terms of service up to point 9.18 to find out about them. Though 1.b.iii) should make you wary: "CloudatCost reserves the right to change fees or charges without notice to... 20:35:39 ...you. Your continued use of the Service after a change in fees shall constitute your acceptance of such change in fees." 20:35:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:36:07 <__kerbal__> HackEgo is also offline 20:36:16 same VM, I believe 20:36:24 (VPS, whatever) 20:37:35 <__kerbal__> Are wikia wiki's in the cloud? 20:37:55 <__kerbal__> (Of course, they are really slow to load from all the ads) 20:38:21 "cloud" is such a vague term. 20:38:59 <__kerbal__> It is 20:39:10 __kerbal__: not without javascript they aren't. 20:39:23 <__kerbal__> What do you mean? 20:39:27 Some people will call any VPS a cloud server. 20:40:06 <__kerbal__> int-e: I guess I mean hosted at a server local to none of the users 20:40:14 <__kerbal__> but local to Wikia itself 20:40:37 <__kerbal__> wob_jonas: What do you mean? 20:43:47 who knows where they actually are... they use the fastly CDN 20:44:12 <__kerbal__> ah 20:44:24 <__kerbal__> So much to learn 20:47:30 <__kerbal__> Has the wiki ever been backed up in the last few years? I know it did wiki-dumps at one point 20:49:52 -!- augur has joined. 20:51:06 But it seems that they are big enough that they should be running their own servers. Apparently they used to share wikimedia infrastructure. 20:51:17 (they = wikia) 20:51:26 fizzie supposedly takes backups. 20:51:30 I believe fizzie mentioned having backups 20:55:00 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:55:48 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:56:15 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 20:57:33 -!- erkin has joined. 20:59:15 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:59:19 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:05:58 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 21:06:03 <__kerbal__> fungot 21:06:03 __kerbal__: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i would firstly like to state this publicly. 21:06:19 <__kerbal__> I guess fungot is not on the affected server? 21:06:20 __kerbal__: mr president, for me, of a multilateral system; that, thanks, purely, to trade barriers, combined with maintaining the key principles behind our proposals for decoupling and modulation of direct aid by the member states and to give farmers a long-term political perspective. this amendment is admissible. the french proposal refers only to judges in the criminal law and criminal procedure. in cases where the offences 21:07:27 fungot is not cloudy at all 21:07:27 oerjan: mr president, i have no difficulty in accepting this, we should consider reducing the level of contamination. while some had a legitimate purpose to improve financial management. it now remains to be seen in this house. 21:07:58 <__kerbal__> What is the contamination, fungot? 21:07:58 __kerbal__: madam president, the commission underlined the fact that it would be sending out a completely negative signal and a sombre message. more attention to this deficiency, as i have said, the adoption of the framework for the european union 21:08:55 <__kerbal__> is the president a mr or a madam? Make up your mind, fungot 21:08:55 __kerbal__: mr president, it is something which will help control greenhouse gases in the european commission' s policy is not a priority. 21:09:43 <__kerbal__> Ok, so I guess that the contamination is "greenhouse gases in the european commission' s policy." Good to know 21:11:01 now we know what all that hot air really is 21:12:39 <__kerbal__> That explains so much! 21:13:35 are you talking about belching and farting? 21:14:48 <__kerbal__> Maybe the eurocommission is composed of cows 21:19:15 I think the esowiki only broke a few days ago though 21:20:15 <__kerbal__> I think it's been up until today 21:21:11 . o O ( `learn Calculus is mostly derivative. ) 21:22:00 <__kerbal__> `? calculus 21:22:23 it's not there. 21:22:24 <__kerbal__> Oh, right. HackEgo is integral to accessing wisdoms 21:22:41 .oO( https://www.xkcd.com/626/ ) 21:23:14 hackego timed out about 9 hours ago. 21:23:26 __kerbal__: to writing them. for reading them, there's a separately hosted pdf file. wisdom/pdf has the url of that file. 21:23:38 __kerbal__: "integral", nice. (even if accidental) 21:23:57 (it might also be in the topic) 21:24:37 <__kerbal__> int-e: I actually did intend to make that pun... 21:24:50 <__kerbal__> Man, we're on a weird tangent 21:25:18 You just had to use an ellipsis there. 21:26:24 <__kerbal__> Are you the determinant of my writing style? 21:26:32 <__kerbal__> (That linear algebra one was a bit forced) 21:26:53 I do have backups. Most recently from Tuesday. 21:27:43 I've used them to set up a temporary read-only copy on one of my own machines twice, when we've been having Problems. 21:29:16 @metar EGLL 21:29:17 EGLL 062020Z AUTO 29007KT 9999 NCD 27/15 Q1012 NOSIG 21:29:28 It's so hot these days. :/ 21:29:44 <__kerbal__> Permit me to make one more. 21:29:54 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 21:30:09 <__kerbal__> The wiki's eigenvalues are imaginary of control 21:30:25 I've also got a copy in a bank vault back in Finland, but that's not updated more than maybe once a year. 21:30:46 <__kerbal__> Ok, THAT made no sense whatsoever 21:31:04 <__kerbal__> I need to work on my math jokes 21:32:09 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:32:53 bank vault? 21:34:10 I don't know what the English term for it is for one of those little locker boxes you rent from a bank. 21:34:24 Safe-deposit box? 21:34:50 "A safe-deposit box lives within the vault of a federally insured bank or credit union." 21:34:53 That sounds like it. 21:35:29 yeah, but those cost a shitton to rent 21:35:40 Well, I've got one of them anyway. 21:35:53 I do have other things in there than just the Esolangs wiki backup. 21:36:19 (It's also something like... between 5-10 euros a month?) 21:37:13 I seem to recall from the logs that a few people do a periodic copy of the XML dump we publish, so the wiki *contents* are probably quite redundantly stored. But my copies are likely the only ones with user accounts included. 21:42:11 -!- Mayoi has joined. 21:42:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:45:21 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:53:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 21:59:57 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:07:21 -!- Mayoi has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 22:14:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:16:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:28:50 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:29:01 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:30 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:27 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:50:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:54:50 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:57:32 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:24:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:50:46 -!- erkin has joined. 23:51:44 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:51:55 -!- iovoid has joined. 23:51:56 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 23:51:56 -!- iovoid has joined. 23:55:20 -!- boily has joined. 23:55:23 `w 23:57:42 oh. 2017-07-07: 00:01:52 I set up the read-only backup copy, with two caveats. Firstly, I still hadn't changed the TTLs, so it will take up to a day for the DNS change to propagate. Secondly, the TLS certificate on it has expired, and I can't letsencrypt a new one until the DNS changes go through. 00:02:36 But you may be able to browse the wiki at http://esolangs.zem.fi/ 00:07:29 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:07:30 Now I need some sort of a way to notice when (if) it comes back up, so I know how to undo this. 00:12:16 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:41:35 works for me 01:20:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:22:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:34:46 -!- augur has joined. 01:37:15 It just occurred to me that I can probably kill Warrigal. 01:39:03 Oh, Warrigal isn't a registered nickname. 01:39:08 I can do this, however... 01:39:09 -!- tswe_tt has changed nick to tswett. 01:40:15 tswarrigello_tt. 01:40:22 meanwhile, MWAH AH AH AH AH. 01:40:30 firestarter. I *love* that artifact. 01:40:54 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 01:42:37 which game? 01:43:13 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:45:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:46:27 hellorcah. DCSS! 01:46:41 everything explodes everywhere! ludicrous flaming gibs! 01:46:50 MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!!! 02:03:20 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:22:27 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:23:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HYPOTHETIC CHICKEN). 02:25:15 -!- jaboja has joined. 02:26:59 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 02:32:03 -!- Warriga_l has joined. 02:33:16 ski: whoa whoa whoa 02:33:28 hi 02:34:54 hello shachaf 02:35:04 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:35:10 how'z jamz 02:35:17 long time no ski 02:37:14 atm i'm rather sleepy. about to head for bed 02:37:26 @time ski 02:37:27 Local time for ski is Fri Jul 7 03:37:26 2017 02:37:31 sgtm 02:37:40 say again ? 02:37:40 g'niski 02:43:44 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:45:15 bckw is more intuitive 02:48:57 ski is p. intuitive 02:52:57 -!- Warriga_l has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:55:19 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 02:57:12 -!- Warriga_l has joined. 03:00:44 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:01:37 -!- Warriga_l has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:01:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:03:13 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:05:19 -!- imode has joined. 03:05:35 is the wiki being hijacked? 03:07:17 -!- staffehn has joined. 03:08:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:09:05 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:22:37 it's down, I believe 03:22:49 http://esolangs.zem.fi/ is a mirror 03:23:00 not sure why it's down, though 03:23:49 I'm getting cert errors when trying to connect to it. 03:24:14 annnd it's back up. 03:24:44 I've put up a local, read-only copy. 03:25:08 00:01 I set up the read-only backup copy, with two caveats. Firstly, I still hadn't changed the TTLs, so it will take up to a day for the DNS change to propagate. Secondly, the TLS certificate on it has expired, and I can't letsencrypt a new one until the DNS changes go through. 03:25:23 Hence the certificate issues. 03:25:41 ah. 03:26:19 (The VPS it normally runs on is being unresponsive.) 03:27:41 https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudAtCost/comments/6llch0/all_servers_down_panelcloudatcostcom_not_available/ 03:31:22 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 03:33:20 well this looks like a scam.... 03:34:35 There's really nothing new about that, but we've been coasting by with what we've got. 03:35:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:35:11 Nothing new about it looking like a scam? 03:35:13 coastatcost 03:35:21 (Also I don't own the VPS, I just run the wiki on it. So I don't e.g. have access to that control panel, even if it was working.) 03:36:42 On the positive side, I managed to renew the certificate (the temporary DNS changes had propagated to whatever letsencrypt used for the domain validation), so if you're getting the non-broken address, https://esolangs.org/ should be working again. 03:40:10 I'd give CaC reasonable chances of still coming back from the dead. It was down for a few days a while back as well, but reappeared. 03:42:32 has it clawed its way back from the dead before 03:42:35 clawedatcost 03:49:23 I'd be a bit questionable, considering that all-of-a-sudden $9 service charge seems like *exactly* the sort of thing you do when your business model has failed utterly. 03:49:42 Along with reports that people have had trouble cancelling service. 03:50:21 -!- _keemyb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:51:30 what was their original plan for making money? 03:52:15 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 03:52:45 Charge people a bunch of money and then turn off the service after a while? 03:52:46 -!- keemyb has joined. 03:52:54 -!- ybden has joined. 03:52:57 Or scam them with a monthly fee that you add on without telling them. 03:53:12 Unclear. 03:54:05 As I understand it, they're corporationally part of something that does make money, or at least in partnership with. 03:54:18 http://ventures.fibernetics.ca/cloud-at-cost/ 03:54:20 That thing. 03:54:26 fizzie: Ah, so it's like most of Alphabet? 03:54:39 They might've assumed they could be able to get enough word of mouth that more regular-cost-structure services could take off later? 03:54:47 I don't know if their business model can be understood in isolation, but I also don't know how it would make sense in conjunction with Fibernetics either. 03:56:28 "It began as part of an internal side project aimed at rekindling the entrepreneurial spirit within an established 200-employee tech company. Less than a year later, Cloud at Cost – a hosting service with a $35 one-time fee and no monthly bill – has raked in $1 million without any marketing, and injected fresh energy into Fibernetics, --" 03:56:33 http://news.communitech.ca/columns/cloud-at-cost-injects-fibernetics-with-startup-energy 03:56:56 That was written when the "no monthly bill" part was more true. 03:57:50 Maybe their business model should be not to allow anyone in Europe to use their services. 03:58:58 "The 11,000-square-foot facility boasts a data centre filled with servers and related equipment Fibernetics was able to acquire at deep discounts, and a rooftop solar array that generates more power than the operation uses. The servers access the same network upon which Fibernetics’ Internet and phone business is based. -- “That really gave us the unfair advantage to go ahead against other [cloud] 03:59:04 companies that have to pay for space and power and Internet and all those things.”" 04:01:58 I wouldn't mind running the thing on something more reasonable, but that would involve paying money, and I've already gotten into discussions re fronting the bill for the domain. VPSes tend to be about an order of magnitude more expensive than domains. 04:03:28 All that said, it's entirely possible that all that's going on is they've had issues and the entire side project is a very low priority. 04:05:11 Anyhoo, time to go sweat^W sleep. 04:05:16 (It's 27 degrees indoors.) 04:09:20 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:29:40 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:42:46 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 04:53:16 how much data does it use? 04:54:14 I don't think I can currently volunteer to host it, maybe once I get a server into a colo somwhere 04:54:48 Hoolootwo: with MediaWiki the problem is mostly CPU power, not bandwidth 04:54:54 it's much more CPU-hungry than you might expect 04:55:03 oh, I didn't realize that 04:55:55 why does it use so much? 04:56:31 my guess is that it's fairly badly written, and in PHP at that (which is not the most optimized language) 04:58:05 Maybe they should switch to Hack. 05:21:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:21:11 has there ever been any practical two dimensional language? 05:21:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:21:27 or N-dimensional where N > 1 05:21:48 Practical or merely not intended to be esoteric? 05:22:01 heh, both I suppose. 05:22:07 Epigram 2 was going to have 2-dimensional syntax. 05:22:15 I'm not sure whether that really counts. 05:22:38 2D syntax huh? do you have some examples of it? 05:22:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_(programming_language) 05:22:54 Or maybe even Epigram 1 had it? 05:23:28 oh wow. so it actually has diagrams.. 05:23:52 And of course there's http://www.eelis.net/C++/analogliterals.xhtml 05:24:03 hah. of course. 05:26:18 I've just been wondering if there's any use for a language with syntax/a computational model that can be extended to multiple dimensions. 05:26:35 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:26:39 excel comes to mind. as does the TIS-100. 05:26:51 Both good examples. 05:27:03 but those only really showcase two dimensions. 05:28:00 something that springs to mind regarding 3D would be snapmap. 05:28:07 (in the recent Doom 2016.) 05:30:31 Do you count cellular automata as programming languages? 05:30:44 I suppose, but that's a little easy. 05:30:57 Aren't easy answers better than hard answers? 05:31:10 Are there any popular 3D cellular automata? 05:31:10 true, but often easy answers don't give way to deeper thought. :P 05:31:21 Also: Are there "automata" which are continuous? 05:31:26 apart from weird von-neumann-esq. CAs, not sure. 05:31:31 and yeah, smoothlife. 05:31:34 I think there are ones that have continuous cell states rather than a set number of colors. 05:31:40 But what about continuous cell boundaries? 05:31:52 I.e. a function or something rather than discrete cells. 05:31:53 here's another interesting question: code reuse, what happens in "space"? 05:32:13 I was thinking that there's nothing about Hashlife that particularly depends on discreteness. 05:32:19 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 05:32:28 And in fact it's almost more suitable to continuous spaces. 05:32:40 hm.. 05:33:01 yeah, you could use hashlife on smoothlife. 05:33:15 Actually Excel is more like 3-dimensional, not 2-dimensional, because it supports ranges spanning through worksheets, where the order of worksheets matter. 05:33:34 ah, I was curious if it supported that. 05:33:56 Oh, Smoothlife is not what I thought. 05:33:57 There's much more support for 2 dimensional stuff than for 3 dimensions, such as specific functions and operators, but still. 05:34:03 what happens to code reuse in higher-dimensional environments? 05:34:24 Does our universe, as far as we know, lend itself to Hashlife-style simulation? 05:34:51 The speed of light suggests that it might. 05:35:13 But quantum effects might not be compatible with locality. 05:35:56 But if so, they're incompatible in a very particular way. Maybe it's a way that can still be simulated efficiently? 05:43:42 what would be REALLY interesting is an N-dimensional language adapted to an arbitrary vector space. 05:43:56 control flow becomes transformations. 05:44:40 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 05:45:22 imode: That's... pretty much a quantum computer 05:45:28 :D 05:45:41 Not quite an arbitrary vector space there, but arbitrary dimension anyway 05:50:33 my problem with languages with a spatial syntax is that it's hard to include/replicate code. 05:51:00 I can only imagine the horrors of constructing CA-based programs. incredibly fragile things. 05:54:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:55:37 Constructing physics-based programs is also pretty tricky. 06:01:00 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 06:01:11 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 06:05:41 I could believe that you could turn any N-dimensional program into a traditional, textual program by the inclusion of coordinates/bounding boxes. 06:05:57 (x, y, z, ), ... 06:06:24 that way you could design the program and serialize it. 06:12:25 imode: just store it as a quadtree like hashlife hth 06:12:42 ayyyy. 06:47:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:01:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:22:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:25:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:25:55 -!- Deewiant_ has joined. 07:26:05 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:27:00 -!- vifino has joined. 07:31:21 -!- augur has joined. 07:35:19 -!- betaveros_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:49 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:37:43 -!- betaveros has joined. 07:38:35 -!- jjthrash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:39:05 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:39:46 -!- ineiros has joined. 07:43:36 -!- puckipedia has joined. 07:48:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:18:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:25:44 * imode still wonders how code re-use would work in a higher dimensional language. 08:27:26 with traditional programs you can just bolt multiple code segments together and give a couple entry points. 08:27:55 gluing together segments of a plane isn't as.. easy. you need to have some sort of isolation. 08:31:09 Isn't a similar thing true in a one-dimensional language like bf as well? 08:32:21 A traditional program is something like a graph, where you can make an edge pointing to any name. 08:32:41 I suppose you could have a 2D language that requires the graph to be planar. 08:32:53 you'd end up with something like wireworld. 08:33:08 maybe something like an N-dimensional excel. 08:33:43 where regions of space can be occupied by code with its own instruction pointer. 08:35:03 I remember seeing a "robust-first computing" video or something where the guy designed a filter out of small probabilistic particles... lemme get that. 08:40:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=helScS3coAE quite long, but an interesting take on "programming" with a virtual environment with inputs and outputs. 08:41:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:41:33 -!- augur has joined. 08:42:06 -!- Melvar` has joined. 08:43:38 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:43:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:46:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:58:12 -!- augur has joined. 09:02:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:15:34 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:21:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:39:07 -!- jjthrash has joined. 09:59:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:21:37 Hmm. Still no worky. 10:26:53 -!- oerjan has set topic: Backup wiki at http://esolangs.zem.fi/ | vampiric manatees | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah. 10:27:22 -!- oerjan has set topic: Backup wiki (readonly) at http://esolangs.zem.fi/ | vampiric manatees | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah. 10:28:24 -!- oerjan has set topic: Backup wiki (readonly) at http://esolangs.zem.fi/ | mermaid umpires | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah. 10:36:03 shachaf: "In the European Union and Russia, Google Cloud Platform services can be used only for business purposes." Hey, maybe Brexit means I can use it. 10:36:16 heh 10:47:28 -!- zemhill has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:47:37 -!- zemhill has joined. 10:57:45 -!- erkin has joined. 11:07:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 11:08:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:10:08 Speedrunning stuff: Summer Games Done Quick crew has already started to upload videos of the first games of SGDQ to youtube. After SGDQ, there are more speedrunning marathons this summer: 11:11:21 handheld heroes (gameboy games, on in second half of twitch.tv/speedgaming , no physical conference) starting 2017-07-15, then ESA (European Speedrun Assembly) in july in Vaxjö, then I hear there's something in august in america. 11:11:24 There have been bootleg copies of the SGDQ runs in YouTube for a while already. ;) 11:11:38 fizzie: sure, encodes of the twitch videos 11:11:55 but these are the first official encodes (I'm not sure if they're the final official encodes) 11:12:38 There's that thing which does them automatically, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfqRJEB9cDt4j_RqRXg0ABA/videos 11:12:54 TBH, watching them like that was preferrable to watching Twitch in real time, it was freezing for seconds all the time. At least when I tried. 11:14:04 twitch freezes less if you load the player.twitch.tv frame directly. the horrible part of twitch is the chat and other wobsite elements that often freeze your browser completely. 11:14:35 The official ones are in a playlist that has "Raw Stream" in the name... though on the other hand, that's the case for AGDQ 2017 as well. 11:15:10 at least in some older years, the final official encodes were on archive.org 11:31:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:33:54 -!- boily has joined. 11:36:42 @metar CYUL 11:36:43 CYUL 071029Z 23009KT 180V250 3/4SM R24R/P6000FT/U R24L/P6000FT/U +TSRA BKN009 OVC018CB 21/19 A2979 RMK SF5CB3 PRESRR SLP090 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 11:37:05 no TSRA here. it's gonna rain. 11:42:57 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 11:43:32 -!- joast has joined. 11:44:58 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 12:02:43 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 12:29:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MASTER CHICKEN). 12:34:27 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:34:35 <__kerbal__> The wiki's back! 12:34:37 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 12:34:37 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:34:37 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 12:34:37 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 12:35:18 <__kerbal__> And you made a backup mirror! 12:52:29 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:57:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:01:05 It's not really back. 13:01:10 What you see is the copy. 13:01:37 (You should get a sad message if you try to edit something.) 13:02:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:05:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:26:59 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 13:27:08 <__kerbal__> fizzie: so this is just the mirror? 13:27:20 yes, a read-only mirror 13:28:41 <__kerbal__> Strangely, typing in esolangs.org now gets me nowhere. I used to get the wiki. 13:28:49 <__kerbal__> (even if it was the read-only version) 13:29:00 <__kerbal__> I can access the mirror just fine 13:31:49 <__kerbal__> What does "mermaid umpires" mean? 13:32:24 <__kerbal__> There's also been "vampiric manatees" and something involving a hypercantata or something like that 13:37:09 kerbal: dunno, after the Rat Samurai of the Kamigawa block, I'm not so easy to surprise by unusual race role combinations. 13:49:25 __kerbal__: It will take a while for the DNS change (to make esolangs.org point at the copy) to reach everywhere, and until it does, you might get different results from the caches of different nameservers. 13:49:48 <__kerbal__> ah 13:54:37 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:56:24 <__kerbal__> Has anyone ever created an esoteric markup language? 14:07:32 tex 14:21:37 <__kerbal__> besides that 14:31:55 when I returned to the airport by train, at one point I was sitting in a small compartment of 8 seats with 4 other people, all 4 having a laptop in front of them 14:32:07 apparently everyone works on a laptop during traveling there 14:37:08 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:37:12 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:47:06 ais523: hi 14:47:18 hi 14:47:30 there was something I wanted to ask you about M:tG rules 14:47:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:06:30 <__kerbal__> The redirect to the wiki now works 15:06:40 <__kerbal__> for me, at least 15:08:22 ais523: In M:tG rules, basically I want to know how linked abilities work when a permanent gets them indirectly. Take the abilities of Synod Sanctum or Muse Vessel for example. Another permanent could get the abils indirectly through copy effects including cytoshape, or Quicksilver Elemental effects. 15:09:14 If I use the first ability to exile an object, then something happens with the indirect (possibly multiply indirect way) how this permanent gets its abilities, when can I still use the second ability to access the exiled card(s)? 15:11:17 For example, if you get the ability through Experiment Kraj, what happens if (a) the original Synod Sanctum loses all +1/+1 counters then regains them (b) the Sanctum phases out then phases in (c) the Sanctum dies then another Sanctum etb and gets a counter, 15:12:26 (d) the Sanctum gets Turned to Frog then back, (e) the Kraj gets Turned to Frog then back, ... and lots of other possibilities. 15:13:15 Simliarly, if a bear gets the Sanctum abilities through Cytoshape, the shape times out then in a later turn I Cytoshape the bear back to the same Sanctum, can I access the cards? 15:14:00 I'd like to know a general rule of when linked abilities can access the exiled card or similar when a permanent gets linked abilities indirectly. 15:22:39 <__kerbal__> Is War (the card game) guaranteed to halt? 15:23:23 <__kerbal__> If the cards given to each player at the start are non-random 15:24:10 <__kerbal__> (sorry, this M:tG thing got me thinking about the M:tG TC proof, which made me wonder about this) 15:34:41 -!- Melvar` has joined. 15:36:35 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:42:48 ais523: still here? 15:49:06 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 15:49:48 -!- danieljabailey has changed nick to DaNiElJaBaIlEy. 15:49:55 -!- DaNiElJaBaIlEy has changed nick to danieljabailey. 15:50:59 wob_jonas: yes, just don't really have anything to say 15:51:03 I'm not an expert in M:tG rules 15:51:18 ok 15:59:29 <__kerbal__> I think that a war game could be abstracted to a set of queues where every queue stores instructions 15:59:37 but then who's the M:tG rules expert on this channel then? 15:59:49 is it zzo38? 16:00:15 <__kerbal__> correction: every queue stores a set of integers 16:00:34 <__kerbal__> that are the inputs of the only instruction in War 16:03:09 <__kerbal__> this instruction basically takes a set of integers, where the position of the integer in the set corresponds to the queue (so the 1st integer is for the first queue) and writes the set to the queue corresponding to the largest integer in the set. 16:03:14 <__kerbal__> I think 16:04:13 -!- augur has joined. 16:04:29 <__kerbal__> Of course, to make War deterministic you must specify the order in which the set is written to the queue, which is not specified by some War rules I have seen 16:06:36 <__kerbal__> Assuming a 2 player game, you get two stacks 16:06:44 <__kerbal__> correction: queues 16:07:41 <__kerbal__> I think, then, that War is a OISC 16:07:53 <__kerbal__> with two stacks 16:08:33 <__kerbal__> the question is, then, will War (or a precisely defined variant thereof) halt? 16:08:50 <__kerbal__> (I mean queues above) 16:09:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:09:16 <__kerbal__> Where War is defined broadly as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_(card_game) 16:18:31 [1,4] vs [3,2]; [4,1,3] vs [2]; [1,3] vs [4,2]; [3,1,4] vs [2]; [1,4] vs [3,2]; repeat 16:18:42 admittedly this uses a fairly asymmetrical gather order (always player 1 above player 2) 16:26:06 <__kerbal__> ais523: Could you explain your queue notation? I'm a bit confused (my apologies) 16:26:15 __kerbal__: head of the queue is at the left end 16:27:15 <__kerbal__> If 3 won the battle against 1, why didn't the second player get 1? 16:28:42 <__kerbal__> Or are 3 and 1 not being compared? 16:30:22 __kerbal__: ais523 is a mathematician, not a card gamer, so lower number wins in his notation. 16:31:14 <__kerbal__> oh, ok. That threw me off 16:31:57 <__kerbal__> So it appears that, for some starting values, War will never halt 16:32:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:35:30 <__kerbal__> Is War TC? 16:36:25 no, finite storage 16:36:58 <__kerbal__> True. 16:38:02 <__kerbal__> What about a variant in which "war" events create an extra card, namely the lowest value in the facedown cards? 16:39:47 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:40:21 <__kerbal__> [1,3,5,7] vs [1,2,3,8]; 2 is generated and given to the winner 16:40:46 huhwhat 16:41:02 <__kerbal__> Basically, a way of getting around finite storage\ 16:41:07 <__kerbal__> by generating cards 16:41:18 this is starting to get into xigxag territory, now 16:41:23 i.e. probably not TC but it's going to be a pain to prove 16:42:43 <__kerbal__> So, we need a consistent notation first... 16:42:56 <__kerbal__> Do small or large numbers win? 16:43:10 small in my notation 16:43:11 ais523: like the Last ReSort? 16:43:27 wob_jonas: nah, I think Last ReSort probably /is/ TC but it's going to be a pain to prove 16:43:33 I might be wrong, though 16:43:39 in either case 16:43:49 oh, xigxag was that language that's like a tag system with two symbols or something 16:45:24 hmm, is there even a simple proof that iterated McCulloch's second machine isn't TC? 16:45:29 xigxag has two symbols, < and >, but it isn't like a tag system 16:45:49 each step, a < is replaced by a copy of everything to its left, a > is replaced by a copy of everything to its right 16:45:59 it's been proven that all nontrivial programs grow exponentially but that really doesn't state anything about TCness 16:55:14 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:56:22 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:04:07 does it have a universal generator g in the sense that every string of s occurs as a substring in some successor of g? 17:05:00 huh, interesting question 17:05:03 I'm not sure if that's been explored yet 17:13:35 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 17:14:09 <\oren\> a call to system() is O(n) in the size of the calling process!!!!!! 17:14:13 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 17:15:30 \oren\: you're on a UNIX-alike with a broken vfork? 17:16:36 \oren\: yes, in some large server programs forking can be a bottleneck, in which case you can prefork (and optionally exec) a separate small process whose job is to fork children. 17:16:52 Preforking has other advantages too, such as not having to worry about strange process state getting copied and accidentally causing hard to debug problems in the descendants. 17:18:15 <\oren\> wob_jonas: we are basically doeing that now 17:18:45 <\oren\> (except the "process whose job it is to fork children" is just a shell script) 17:19:12 \oren\: seriously, though, what OS are you on? 17:19:17 <\oren\> Linux 17:19:45 Linux has a bunch of forking optimizations, and doesn't need to copy the entire state of the program on a fork 17:20:05 vfork is just seen as a clue to the scheduler there, rather than to the MMU, because a regular fork is already efficient enough 17:20:12 however, I wonder if it nonetheless has to copy the page table? 17:20:23 that's way smaller than memory generally, but it's still O(n) in the size of the process, just about 17:20:29 I'd have expected the constant factor to be larger though 17:20:39 <\oren\> yeah and this process has a ton of mmapped files 17:21:18 <\oren\> and it was calling system() several times a second 17:22:33 \oren\: was it at least calling system for something useful that's hard to replace, or for something silly like system("clear")? 17:22:56 calling system() several times a second tends to be slow regardless of who's calling it 17:23:26 <\oren\> sprintf(s,"rm %s",filename);system(s); 17:23:48 <\oren\> ...yeeeak 17:24:19 <\oren\> never mind what will heppen if filename contains a space 17:24:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:25:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:25:27 <\oren\> luckily this code never runs in prod 17:25:33 <\oren\> only when testing 17:25:57 so glibc's system uses this to fork on linux: # define FORK() INLINE_SYSCALL (clone, 3, CLONE_PARENT_SETTID | SIGCHLD, 0, &pid) ... CLONE_VM is not set so yes it'll make a, more or less, copy of the page tables. 17:26:35 . o O ( hmm, that's from 2012. ) 17:26:43 * int-e goes find a current version 17:27:34 how does exec() interact with threads? 17:28:30 I'm more curious about vfork and threads 17:31:15 okay, current glibc still does the same thing. 17:31:36 int-e: I'd assume that on Linux at least, vfork just prevents other threads running until the exec/_exit 17:31:57 because on Linux, the only difference between fork and vfork is in how the scheduler reacts 17:32:05 BSD might be more interesting, though 17:32:11 although I assume it does threads quite differently from Linux 17:34:49 interestingly, posix_spawn seems to use vfork (CLONE_VM | CLONE_VFORK); but they go out of their way to set up a new stack. 17:35:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:36:01 (on linux; the generic posix implementation is based around fork()) 17:42:49 three steps further into the rabbit hole... is system() guaranteed to run atfork handlers? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112517 says no. 17:43:22 I wouldn't expect that guarantee to exist 17:44:02 you'd expect system to be implemented via posix_spawn nowadays 17:44:09 which has no reason to call an atfork 17:44:30 int-e: ah! atfork. good idea. 17:46:19 at one point I was wondering how in a multithread program when I fork-exec and want to have the children inherit a specific file handle, how I could make sure another thread doesn't system (or popen) at just the wrong time and inherit that handle. 17:46:29 This was on window, so fork wasn't actually involved sadly. 17:47:20 The implementation of popen itself makes sure the handles it creatures aren't inherited by other calls to popen by locking on a mutex, but that mutex isn't in the documented API so you can't reference them from user code. 17:48:59 An atfork handle would be ideal for locking on a similar mutex you create. 17:49:09 no wait, that wouldn't work 17:49:20 you have to lock the mutex before you fork and unlock after you fork 17:49:25 an atfork handler can't do that 17:49:34 or can it? 17:52:03 "The expected usage is that the prepare handler acquires all mutex locks and the other two fork handlers release them." http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/pthread_atfork.html 17:53:35 WTF that's not something I expected to hear: a game where they play the US version because the japanese version has longer dialog (on SGDQ) 17:54:19 mm, lazy localization? 17:54:44 I don't know 18:01:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:04:01 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:06:13 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:06:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:13:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:26:07 hi oerjan 18:34:43 <\oren\> int-e: I HATE LAZY TRANSLATORS 18:34:54 <\oren\> REEEEEE 18:35:54 @quote lazy 18:35:54 malig says: quantum mechanics actually strikes me as less wierd than lazy evaluation sometimes. at least it disallows time travel 18:36:45 fungot: do you hit people? 18:36:47 int-e: madam president, i thank the president-in-office for that answer, president-in-office. we would welcome coordination of the council's willingness to consider aid for research and innovation, which is based on an arsenal of sanctions which will have considerable social and environmental jobs; encouraging public and private research expenditure is continuing or picking up in the forthcoming session, which were not kept to. 18:40:11 int-e: but there's one way he can hit people 18:42:26 -!- imode has joined. 18:43:17 hi wob_jonas 18:44:27 <\oren\> ARGH 18:44:39 <\oren\> I need a #include_if_exists 18:44:54 \oren\: we have that these days in C 18:45:01 not spelled that way, but still 18:45:13 #ifdef __has_include or some such thing, I don't recall 18:45:22 most C compilers have it by now 18:45:40 they're even putting it to the c++ standard, though I don't really like that idea 18:45:52 <\oren\> oooh hooray! 18:46:21 wob_jonas: *into 18:46:24 <\oren\> yeah this is just to have a "defines_for_testing.h" folder 18:46:39 or possibly in 18:46:44 <\oren\> which will exist when I want to change some numbers for testing 18:46:55 WTF that's not something I expected to hear: a game where they play the US version because the japanese version has longer dialog (on SGDQ) ← huh, that's a new one 18:47:03 um, actually #if __has_include rather than ifdef 18:47:19 Although, at least in one case I've seen french or spanish be the quickest (although I'm not sure if that game had japanese localisation) 18:47:50 FireFly: that's GTA-3, but it's quicker for reasons other than just dialog length 18:47:57 ah 18:48:34 oh, I was thinking of another game FWIW, I was thinking of Guacamelee 18:49:08 or maybe GTA Vice City. iirc it's because the french version censors the rampange missions, and runs in some categories use that and replay bugs (of which the PC version has a shitton of crazy ones) to get something crazy by switching langugaes 18:49:09 I want to say at least one Zelda game was fastest in some european language too 18:49:21 although that could also be for non-dialogue-length version differences 18:49:40 FireFly: I'm not surprised if something is faster in English than in Japanese, I'm only surprised if it's because of dialog length 18:49:53 right 18:50:53 the reason why Japanese version is usually faster is the PAL vs NTSC difference, but that doesn't apply to either GTA on PC, nor to the portable console game that spawned my surprise this time 18:52:05 Well, or version differences such as bugs exclusive to one language 18:52:21 but I think say game boy pokemon red/blue are faster in japanese because of dialog length 18:52:24 I'm not quite sure 18:52:41 some zelda games too 18:53:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:54:05 Yeah, certainly… although I believe OoT is fastest in chinese (so, the iQue version) 18:54:07 For Japanese vs. English, PAL vs NTSC shouldn't be relevant basically ever. 18:54:22 Unless the game never got a US release. 18:54:22 Because US is also NTSC? 18:54:25 Yup. 18:54:29 oh right, that's confusing 18:54:45 NTSC is the American spec that Japan also adopted. 18:54:47 yeah, NTSC is in japan and america, PAL in western europe 18:54:58 (it's more complicated than that, but that's the main idea) 18:55:17 And for purposes of *most* video games, it's really a question of being 50 or 60 Hz. 18:55:48 With region coding being relevant for some consoles, but that doesn't really effect the performance of the game. 18:56:14 I think the 2600 was the one console where SECAM versions could justifiably be written differently than PAL? 18:56:24 and they have different display resolution, making it even harder to port games 18:56:40 PAL and NTSC have different resolution that is 18:56:48 2600 had a SECAM version? 18:56:49 nice 18:56:52 Yep! 18:57:02 I mean, the 2600 is before my time 18:57:13 Though many PAL releases just used the NTSC resolution and let there be a bunch of black pixels. 18:57:28 pikhq: on what console? 18:57:38 NES, particularly. 18:57:44 I see 18:57:58 Though, rather a *lot* of consoles did the same thing for PAL ports of NTSC games. 18:58:39 Especially for ones that'd run an NTSC ROM perfectly fine on PAL hardware, just slower. 18:59:09 These weren't exactly great PAL ports, but let's be real, a lot of companies just didn't give a shit. 18:59:57 The SECAM 2600 was actually kinda hilarious. 19:00:05 It had an 8 color pallete. 19:00:09 *palette 19:00:14 what 19:00:39 wouldn't that make it a much worse console than the 2600 then? 19:00:47 Well, yes. 19:02:05 Oh. The reason is they never produced a SECAM TIA chip at all. 19:02:17 what 19:02:22 how would it work then? 19:02:36 They just used a quick hack on the PAL TIA chip's luminance output to output color signals based on the luma value. 19:02:48 And *just* output the PAL luma signal with that hack color signal. 19:03:05 And the reason they didn't bother, is the market size didn't merit it. 19:03:17 Because at the time the SECAM market they thought possible was *just* France. 19:03:28 (selling to the Soviet Union, in the early 80s? LOL.) 19:03:32 that I can understand 19:03:32 * FireFly . o O ( PAL is used in western europe and australia… although Eurovision would have you believe that australia is part of europe, so…) 19:04:09 Also fun, apparently France didn't really get custom ROMs to deal with that. 19:04:33 Instead, the B&W switch was overloaded somewhat. 19:04:45 `? PAL 19:04:58 PAL releases were expected to output luma-only when it was set to black and white. 19:05:06 And French 2600s had an always-on black and white switch. 19:06:56 were there any flagship games that did get custom ROM? 19:07:06 Dunno. 19:08:56 -!- bit_lySLH2uSZHed has joined. 19:09:48 Pfft, and some of the early SECAM 2600s were made SECAM with just some wires added on the board. 19:10:06 And presumably a local RF modulator. 19:11:15 -!- bit_lySLH2uSZHed has left. 19:43:52 hmm, is there even a simple proof that iterated McCulloch's second machine isn't TC? <-- i never finished my analysis, it got complicated and i'd have to write a constraint solving program, but my _hunch_ is that the resulting "register machine" is too simple to be TC. 19:44:21 oerjan: ok 19:44:46 or put differently, it's not that simple, because it devolves into a register machine thing with ~6 registers. 19:45:08 integer registers? 19:45:26 natural numbers, they correspond to lengths of certain substrings. 19:45:34 ok 19:46:10 Is it possible to stream a recording to a DVD without needing to store it in RAM or a disk file? 19:46:12 or rather "number of subblocks" of certain substrings, i guess. 19:48:04 zzo38: um, where'd you put stuff if not in the ram? 19:48:30 On the DVD 19:49:13 The part that is currently recording may be stored in a buffer in RAM, but after that it shouldn't store everything and only a small part, to not take up too much RAM. 19:50:29 zzo38: and you want this with an ordinary DVD burner drive hardware, or custom drive? 19:51:06 With the ordinary DVD hardware 19:57:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:58:42 zzo38: So you'd e.g. permit like a 2 meg buffer or some such, but that's about it? 19:58:58 2 meg would be very small 19:59:01 I think that's possible, but dunno how easy it'd be to do. 19:59:20 Yes, something like that. 19:59:24 you can barely even fit a single frame of raw video in that 20:00:00 That's also nearly 2 seconds of output to a DVD burner at 1x speed. 20:00:01 you want lots more memory for compressing video 20:00:17 I was assuming that was the buffer from the encoder to the DVD burner. 20:00:43 That assumes that you are recording video onto the DVD; the data being recorded is not necessarily going to be video though 20:00:59 Though, do remember this is a *DVD*. 20:01:00 pikhq: oh, so 2 megs besides the hundreds of megs or something the video encoder itself uses? 20:01:33 A frame of *DVD* video raw doesn't take that much. 20:02:19 I was thinking that the data to record is not necessarily a video. 20:02:57 zzo38: ah 20:03:01 A full frame of DVD video at 4:2:2 is less than a meg. 20:03:03 Also, ah. 20:03:23 zzo38: and are you allowed to use a format on the dvd that requires a custom decoder software to read, as long as it doesn't have too much space overhead? 20:04:23 But yes, as far as I'm aware the only thing preventing you from writing a DVD *streaming* like you want is software, not hardware. 20:04:35 As far as the hardware's concerned it's burning bits out of a buffer. 20:04:45 I would have hope that you can just read it from /dev/dvdrom or whatever even if it isn't a filesystem 20:05:02 -!- augur has joined. 20:05:08 wob_jonas: I think UDF, the common filesystem for DVDs, is actually designed to let you output it streaming. 20:05:16 I don't know if it is necessary to reduce the speed of the disc spinning either 20:05:29 (while recording; not while reading) 20:05:47 zzo38: It should only be a function of how fast you can shove bits at the thing. 20:06:12 zzo38: ordinary dvd writing already allows you to slow down the dvd or cd rotation, and we often use that option because it might make the disk last longer 20:06:36 I've always written my dvds at 4x speed even though the drive and disk could do 16x 20:06:47 It's also necessary to match the speed to the disk to some extent. 20:06:54 The only thing will be, what if the speed of the streaming is unknown or variable? 20:07:27 IIRC present-day burners are able to straight-up stop mid-burn to allow their buffer to fill up. 20:08:00 pikhq: stopping is easy. continuing is the hard part. 20:08:42 I thought that in order to be able to stop and continue at any time may be necessary to make it spin more slowly? 20:09:43 (Maybe you will need some kind of mark to indicate the address?) 20:09:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:10:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:17:36 Is UDF design like that for use with DVD recorders that can record television shows? 20:40:36 <\oren\> http://imgur.com/a/akxyv 20:43:40 zzo38: Yes. 20:46:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:51:16 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:52:58 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:55:23 Sanyo has a trandmark ("BURN-Proof™") and a patent for doing that sort of stop/resume on CDs, I think that was reasonably widely supported. And already at least a decade old by now. 20:55:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:56:46 (Wikipedia claims that the DVD+R(W) formats have that as a standard thing.) 20:58:04 oh man 20:58:08 remember DVD-RAM? 20:59:08 <\oren\> yeah screencapped thru facebook for realism 20:59:09 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/QN8ivE.jpg 20:59:49 I do remember DVD-RAM, I think I might've gotten one disc alongside a "super multi" drive. 21:00:25 It didn't do the cartridge trick. 21:08:04 http://i.imgur.com/ywabaFb.gifv 21:12:59 <\oren\> APic: lol 21:16:51 😉 21:20:16 fizzie: Did you decrease the TTL on esolangs.org? 21:20:35 Looks like you did. 21:20:39 I set it to 5 minutes, yes. 21:21:17 I was inspired by such industry giants as the Google, which also uses 300 seconds. 21:21:32 whoa whoa whoa, are you sure that's not confidential information? 21:21:41 It's like "dig google.com a". 21:21:49 It's hard to be confidential about that. 21:22:00 That's your TTL, but maybe my TTL is different. 21:22:11 Maybe you're at work and you're revealing information about the internal TTL. 21:22:13 @time fizzie 21:22:13 Local time for fizzie is Fri Jul 7 21:22:13 2017 21:22:16 In fact, I couldn't remember what it was in a confidential way, so I did just that. 21:22:18 Maybe not. 21:22:53 What about HackEgo? 21:22:57 When's that one coming back? 21:23:29 That's a good question. I don't have super recent clone of the repository. 21:23:43 whoa whoa whoa 21:23:48 It's just gone? 21:23:55 No copy of the data or anything? 21:23:55 I tried that and do not see anything about TTL. Did I do something wrong? 21:24:07 I knew I should have set up a cron job to fetch the repository. 21:24:14 zzo38: Tried what, the dig command? 21:24:23 Yes 21:24:26 You probably saw a line like google.com. 174 IN A 172.217.6.78 21:24:33 174 is the TTL 21:24:45 It can be less than 300 if you get it from a server that had it cached. 21:25:07 O, OK, although I get a different number (64 instead of 174 or 300) and the IP address is also different 21:25:34 I guess technically I should've said something like dig @ns1.google.com google.com a 21:25:50 That one I get as a constant 300, since it's the authoritative reply. 21:26:11 zzo38: If you run the command multiple times you'll probably see that number decreasing every second. 21:26:21 fizzie: Yes that one works. 21:26:22 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:26:46 zzo38: maybe you should go work at the google hth 21:27:42 shachaf: To answer your question, I do have one copy, it's just very old. Anyway, I'm still sort of expecting the server to be back in some form eventually, at least enough for the big G (the other big G) to pull data out of it. 21:28:03 kmc_: higan 21:28:20 hi 21:28:56 maybe we should have a #esoteric IRC meetup when fizzie is in CA 21:29:14 who all is still in california around here 21:30:24 fizzie: Presumably the big G is pulling data out of it using HTTP. 21:32:25 Well, I was sort of speculating about the big G that has access to the control panel. Maybe they have some sort of a thing. I don't know, I'm not a CaC customer. 21:32:58 I meant the non-other big G. 21:33:07 Or the other other big G. 21:33:16 How many Gs are there, and which of them are big? 21:34:00 There's the gravitational constant, but that'd not so big. 21:34:23 Wikipedia also suggests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Gemini 21:34:46 In related news, I had done a Bad Thing about the monitoring: I had the node metrics configured using the role DNS name "esolangs.org", instead of a specific designator of the machine. 21:34:57 Now I won't be notified when/if it comes back up. :/ 21:35:00 classic mistake 21:35:37 Which monitoring system was this? 21:35:57 Prometheus on this side, prometheus-node-exporter and mtail on the other side. 21:36:39 Well, and also nginx on the other side to do HTTPS and basic auth. 21:37:58 (That last bit is the problematic one, because I could reconfigure the other bits, but the HTTPS connection will fail because the TLS certificate will have just esolangs.org and www.esolangs.org on it.) 21:41:12 I sure hope shaventions don't disappear. 21:41:34 We could reconstruct a lot of state from IRC logs. I guess this is a disadvantage of `edit 21:41:44 It might be someone else here has a more fresh thing. 21:42:08 I made a clone at one point. 21:42:11 But then I deleted it. 21:42:28 If it comes back, I'll set up a periodic thing. 21:43:00 hg log suggests the one I have in ~/tmp/hackego is from 2013, which was a little while ago. 21:43:18 Correct. 21:50:40 -!- erkin has joined. 22:10:31 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:13:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:14:05 that's so old it might even be pre-nitia 22:15:07 -!- erkin has joined. 22:15:56 that is, it might have history older than HackEgo itself 22:40:24 how do befunge interpreters traditionally store code? as just a big 2D array of cells? 22:43:35 oerjan: What was the reason for nitia, anyway? 22:43:40 Was the old history lost somehow? 22:43:46 Depends on the interpreter, probably. 22:44:26 shachaf: Gregor had a habit of deleting history occasionally. 22:44:27 for small programs it's not bad but for large, sparse programs I imagine it'd get complicated. 22:44:41 memory overhead especially. 22:48:45 * oerjan remembers discussing multicursor quadtree zippers with elliott at one point, and thinks that may have been a fungespace discussion gone way awry 22:49:35 I've also discussed 2D zippers with elliott, I think. 22:49:43 Though I don't remember figuring out a good solution? 22:49:45 anyway, quadtrees are a possibility. 22:50:02 Maybe they should store data Z-ordered. 22:51:24 a hashtable might work too, perhaps with regions. 22:53:54 Do you like this? 22:54:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:00 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 23:03:42 <__kerbal__> So, HackEgo's recent files aren't permanently wiped out, are they? It should be fine when or if the server goes back online 23:04:52 <__kerbal__> Right? 23:05:15 Yes, if. 23:05:54 I mean, if the Cloud At Cost people took the money and ran off to Bahamas, it may take quite a lot of time before anyone gets anything out of there. 23:06:10 Have they even managed to give Megaupload customers their files yet? 23:06:11 -!- augur has joined. 23:07:36 Somehow I don't think they were making embezzlement-worthy money from the service though. 23:08:28 Embezzlement is TG 23:08:39 I like the concept of "bezzle", money created through embezzlement. 23:09:30 <__kerbal__> Until you get arrested 23:09:45 * oerjan floods shachaf with barass 23:09:56 From a blog post: "However, with Cloud at Cost randomly shutting down servers, randomly deleting servers, taking forever to answer tickets and a host of other problems, I highly doubt any of their customers have gotten anywhere near three years of use out of their products." 23:10:00 I think we're a counterexample. 23:10:01 The discovery of embezzlement destroys money. 23:19:56 inode: i would use a dict with a (x,y) tuple as key. it's probably a bit slower, but saves memorye 23:20:24 quintopia: pretty much what I was thinking. 23:20:59 with the option to unpack into an array. 23:21:30 I think it'd be interesting to make something like a roguelike where the code 'exists' in the same place as the game it powers. 23:21:59 "befunge as a scripting language" is now a life goal. 23:23:20 <__kerbal__> Imode: Code in the same place as the game it powers sort of exists in Wreck It Ralph 23:23:39 <__kerbal__> Maybe that could be an influence 23:23:57 snapmap has something "like" that, where you use the game world as a sort of canvas for triggers, etc. 23:24:47 <__kerbal__> You could do some neat plot-related stuff with that idea 23:25:15 my biggest problem with that would be code re-use. if you were going to actually use the world as a befunge-like canvas, you'd have to figure out methods for procedures. 23:25:55 Hack'n'Slash has a little bit of that sort of thing. 23:25:57 and ways of controlling objects. 23:26:26 (There was another one but I'm having trouble locating it.) 23:26:45 like, you'd have to have an entire blank area for one object's code, with objects that you can interact with to move the "parent" in the cardinal directions and perform actions. 23:27:18 buttons, maybe? you could pull off a redstone-like system. 23:27:48 looking at Hack'n'Slash now. 23:27:54 <__kerbal__> imode: Or if the entire source code for the game was the world itself. You could literally alter the fabric of the game's universe 23:28:02 It's a lot more of a game than the thing you describe. 23:28:09 __kerbal__: that's kind of what I'm thinking. 23:28:58 wanna change how much health you have? warp to a certain point in the world, push a block and hit a button a certain number of times. 23:30:18 <__kerbal__> Want to explore the main menu with your character? Go to the relevant section of the code and alter a slice. 23:30:43 I can't decide whether the other game I'm thinking about actually existed, or if it was fictional, or if I just dreamed it. 23:30:54 the problem is making the programming model easy enough. 23:31:00 <__kerbal__> Hack n slice does similar stuff, from what I just read, though 23:32:22 <__kerbal__> Would it be source code in a fungeoidal language as I have been imagining? 23:32:27 yup. 23:32:39 code exists in the same space as the actual game. 23:33:21 <__kerbal__> That would be really cool, but so hard to edit without crashing everything unless it somehow was designed to be sufficiently easy 23:33:26 <__kerbal__> as you suggest 23:33:59 that's why you need something like entry points. or something. 23:34:14 <__kerbal__> A new language at bare minimum 23:34:27 yeah. 23:34:49 -!- __kerbal___ has joined. 23:35:02 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:35:09 -!- __kerbal___ has changed nick to __kerbal__. 23:35:44 There's also Heart.Break(), but that's still not the game I was thinking of. 23:35:51 Maybe it was fictional. 23:36:09 I don't like programming games that are just "here's javascript, go nuts". 23:36:13 much like hackmud.. 23:36:13 <__kerbal__> maybe something like this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton 23:36:26 <__kerbal__> but higher level 23:36:43 oerjan: Do you mean barrass? 23:36:43 so something like a schematic? 23:36:44 <__kerbal__> That way, you don't have to work with single char commands 23:36:48 <__kerbal__> yep 23:36:53 mm. 23:37:16 <__kerbal__> Otherwise, you get a version of befunge that uses all the Unicode chars or something ridiculous like that 23:37:38 <__kerbal__> well, not ALL the Unicode chars but you get my point 23:37:48 at that point you might as well do something like flow-based programming. 23:37:52 or factorio-style stuff. 23:38:46 <__kerbal__> you could have boxes as functions that served double duty as buildings... you could go inside 23:38:47 Factorio is TG 23:38:58 <__kerbal__> or get teleported to the function definition 23:39:28 Speaking of what I said the other day, when I first played Factorio I didn't know about the underground belts for a while. 23:39:38 So I tried to make everything planar. 23:39:41 hahaha. 23:39:41 shachaf: i don't know, ask muphry here 23:39:44 wire crossing problem. :P 23:39:58 __kerbal__: you could do something like excel! 23:40:40 but that'd be kinda weird. 23:40:53 oerjan: Do you like sqrt(2)? 23:40:57 <__kerbal__> Yeah, that wouldn't be overly fun 23:41:27 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:42:05 <__kerbal__> You might be able to do something graphical... but that would resemble a flowchart, be potentially complex and slow, etc... 23:42:11 zzo38: What name do you think an object-oriented language should use for the object whose method is being invoked? 23:42:14 zzo38: Do you like this? 23:42:37 <__kerbal__> Now, won't this whole game not exactly be fast? 23:42:38 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:42:54 depends, I suppose. 23:43:57 <__kerbal__> Also, couldn't you win extremely quickly with just the right hacks? 23:44:07 maybe you could take a more abstract approach and have some primitive objects that can move around and do some things in their general vicinity. 23:44:31 like you oculd form a "pipeline" by putting several carrier objects next to eachother and telling them to take the object from their left and put it on their right. 23:44:47 or two "mailbox" objects that transport things from one point on the "map" to another. 23:45:05 you could have compound objects that have their own "dimension" with controls exposed by sensory objects. 23:45:24 <__kerbal__> I think Wikipedia said Hack and Slash does that 23:45:51 I posted a video last night that detailed an approach similar to what I just described... hm. 23:48:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:48:58 it kind of favored two dimensions, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkSXERxucPc 23:49:27 2n^ 23:50:44 I wonder, though, if you could structure space as kind of a "MUD", where you have locations that objects can move between, and you get a gaggle of objects in a room and wire them together. 23:52:28 shachaf: Programming languages I know will call it "this", although some use others. OAA just uses a plus sign to retrieve the "this" object reference. 23:53:42 <__kerbal__> shachaf: Python convention uses self 23:59:34 oerjan didn't appreciate my pun tdnh 23:59:42 I think Mr2001 would appreciate it but he isn't here. 2017-07-08: 00:12:53 <__kerbal__> shachaf: That pun was just wrong 00:14:05 <__kerbal__> and a bit contrived 00:15:07 You may be missing some context. 00:16:26 <__kerbal__> I may be 00:16:39 <__kerbal__> sorry 00:17:13 <__kerbal__> does 2 ~ you? 00:17:43 <__kerbal__> and the square root function equal a screw? 00:18:00 <__kerbal__> Or did I completely misinterpret it? 00:18:09 What? 00:18:20 <__kerbal__> Yeah, I completely misinterpreted it 00:18:23 <__kerbal__> my badf 00:18:24 <__kerbal__> bad 00:18:28 Never mind the sqrt(2) thing. 00:18:36 <__kerbal__> sorry 00:19:35 <__kerbal__> That wasn't my call anyway 00:20:17 <__kerbal__> I'll just be going now 00:20:21 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:34:39 I remember in some speedruns of SMB2 there's a glitch area, in which mario has to navigate through memory without hitting blocks, then smash the one that brings him to the credits 00:36:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqjZCELEg5M 00:39:08 not that one, wait 00:40:02 JavaScript people sometimes use "self" when they have to stick "this" into a variable for reasons. 00:54:13 Hoolootwo: yeah, those glitched runs are fun to watch. Metroid 2, Fusion, Zero Mission and Super Metroid even have some of the same techniques. 00:54:59 I think if you were ever going to design a game where the code exists in the same space as your simulation, you have to be sort of space-agnostic, meaning you can't favor any particular arrangement of objects. 00:55:27 the techniques in the 2D metroid games are mostly only superficially similar 00:59:52 I can't seem to find the specific run that does the out-of-bounds thing 01:01:27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx85PyLFwUk 01:01:35 about 5 minutes in. 01:01:46 they're walking around in memory regions. 01:04:07 Arguably, you're always doing *that*, it's just not the memory regions you're intended to be walking around in. 01:04:16 well yeah. :P 01:04:20 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 01:06:56 Re game where the game world represents game rules: (1) I have a vague hunch that one of the tasks in ICFP 2006 was like that, (2) it can sort of happen in games liek game boy super mario land 2 where you go out of bounds and end up in a glitched place where the game is reading the ROM as a game map, 01:07:12 and although you can't change ROM values, you can change variables in the RAM that way with surprising effects, 01:07:24 the trick to what I'm thinking of is having areas that the user is _intended_ to be there in one form or another. 01:08:07 (3) imode has hit the nail with Excel, because Excel 3 macros might be the best example for something like this, since macros are represented in macro worksheets with one rule per cell, and those worksheets are very similar to ordinary worksheets 01:08:52 except cells in them don't get their values automatically recomputed all the time, instead their values are only computed when macro execution steps there, and so editing the formulas works the same way in a macro worksheet as in an ordinary one. 01:13:47 I guess editing the config file of your text editor with the same text editor is also sort of like that. 01:13:58 haha. 01:14:24 I guess you have to consider what the space of your game can be. limiting things to 2 dimensions is a little.. eeh. 01:14:48 Like I said yesterday, excel is 3 dimensional. 01:14:58 2 was just an example. 01:15:55 you could do a hunt the wumpus/trade wars kind of a thing where objects occupy abstract spaces like rooms. 01:16:25 hunt the wumpus is 2 dimensional 01:16:26 "fetch a character from the keyboard" really takes on a whole new meaning then. :P 01:17:13 hunt the wumpus is based on a dodecahedron, not necessarily two dimensional. 01:17:26 you could reduce it to a planar graph, yeah. 01:17:31 hmm... I guess hunt the wumpus has holes you can fall into and die, so you could sort of count that as a third dimension 01:17:55 but the "space" you play in is inherently a graph. 01:18:08 not a uniform grid. 01:18:11 and bats that carry you to different rooms too 01:28:12 I've played (a version of) hunt the wumpus on a complete graph before 01:31:59 Hoolootwo: with how many rooms, pits, and bats? 01:32:05 n 01:32:26 uh n rooms, I don't remember the exact details, let me grab them 01:36:23 https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12532&lang=en 01:36:32 not complete graphs, I realize that wouldn't make much sense 01:37:51 Hoolootwo: thanks 02:07:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:42:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:45:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:46:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:47:43 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 03:35:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:43:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:53:40 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:07:33 oerjan: Does the backup wiki link need to stay in the topic? 04:23:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:28:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:30:03 imode: wireworld is tg 04:30:13 I didn't look at it in much detail before. 04:45:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:45:44 tg? 04:45:50 too good 04:46:19 too good? :P 04:46:58 Yes. 04:47:01 It means "good". 04:47:15 not sure what you mean by "too good". too good for what. 04:47:32 I mean that I like it. 04:47:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:47:41 Do you like this? 04:47:44 oh. 05:04:54 Yeah, Wireworld is a great CA. 05:47:58 i agree 05:48:08 ouioui 07:33:57 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 07:35:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:07:45 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:15:16 -!- augur has joined. 09:03:40 uhm, google, why'd you put "shopping" where the image search used to be? That's evil, I say, evil. 09:04:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:08:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:15:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:31:00 oh, since 2008 we actually have speed of light communication in GoL ( http://www.gabrielnivasch.org/fun/life/lightspeed-signals ). 09:34:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:34:57 Yes. 09:36:58 but still no lightspeed wire based communication 09:37:21 Wire? 09:37:53 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Lightspeed_wire 09:39:51 GoL programming reminds me of how I felt when I first joined this channel 09:40:41 People doing impossible things that I barely understand 09:40:46 It's amazing 09:41:46 When was that? 09:42:17 ...2010 or 2011 I think? 09:49:43 I'll be pretty bummed out if we lose fshg 09:49:48 As they say. 09:54:16 `? fshg 09:54:26 Oh, no HackEgo 09:54:48 fshg is the HackEgo filesystem 09:54:53 Oh, I see! 09:54:55 That makes sense 09:55:08 Why would we lose it? 09:55:22 Other than HackEgo seems to have gotten lost 09:55:23 Because the server that was hosting HackEgo has disappeared. 09:56:38 Taneb: You should invent a good build system. 09:58:09 I've been learning abut nix at work, it seems pretty all right 09:58:29 Does it? 09:58:39 It doesn't actually do the work of the build system proper, I think. 09:58:55 It just uses Cabal or Cargo or whatever. Right? 09:59:05 imo you should learn about bazel twh 09:59:52 Yeah, that might be the case 10:00:02 Isn't bazel a city in Germany or Switzerland 10:00:14 Also the Nix language is very complicated. 10:00:27 And it doesn't seem to be sufficiently declarative in the usual case. 10:00:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazel seems to be in Belgium. 10:01:09 Population (2003): 4,967 10:01:21 There are many more than 5000 users of Bazel_(software) 10:07:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel 10:08:20 Oh, sure, Basel. 10:15:03 -!- augur has joined. 10:16:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:17:11 -!- augur has joined. 10:46:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:12 -!- augur has joined. 11:13:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:08:04 The reddit comments imply that at least for some people, they can create new servers on CaC, it's just the old ones that are not working. 12:09:43 Gregor: You might have some luck at power-cycling off / on from the console thingie now. (Or not. Probably not. But there's some success stories.) 12:11:08 @time Gregor 12:11:09 Local time for Gregor is Sat Jul 8 07:11:09 12:11:25 Maybe not the most bestest time to expect a response. 12:21:25 fizzie: do you have a backup of the fshg repo as well? 12:22:03 (shachaf was worrying about that) 12:24:06 I know, and no. 12:24:06 Well, I do have one from 2013. 12:24:17 (shachaf knows this) 12:24:26 ah. I didn't. 12:24:42 I'll set up something periodic if it comes back up, but the only thing that I had was for the wiki. 12:24:52 I do have a lot of IRC logs I can try replaying. ;) 12:25:54 crazy! 12:41:34 -!- S1 has joined. 12:42:43 -!- S1 has left. 13:00:48 Something I've never understood: since the Games Done Quick schedule page has that JavaScript to convert all the dates and times to your local time zone, why can't it add a marker to show the current time, or dehighlight (lowlight?) the ones that are in the past, or something. 13:13:51 -!- augur has joined. 13:18:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:19:19 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 13:19:50 Re HackEgo's state, replaying from the channel is not easy though, because sometimes I edit with multiple lines in private message then show the result here. 13:22:39 Sure, and there's also `fetch. 13:22:56 Might be interesting to try anyway, to see where it diverges and how badly it goes wrong. 13:22:56 and other nondeterminism 13:31:01 -!- erkin has joined. 13:55:26 -!- HackEgo has joined. 14:00:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:08:43 -!- Mayoi has joined. 14:12:28 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:20:55 -!- heroux has joined. 14:38:34 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 14:46:58 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:49:47 . o O ( For this magic trick you'll need: A piece of string, a deck of cards, an identical twin, and a shoe box. ) 14:57:43 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 15:01:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:07:08 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:13:50 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 15:13:58 -!- __kerbal__ has left. 15:39:10 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 15:58:40 Hey, it's back. I didn't even realize. 15:58:57 `ping 15:59:06 pong 15:59:12 Slow and steady wins the race. 15:59:35 Probably means I can re-point DNS things at the real deal. 15:59:39 oh! 15:59:41 is it the real thing? 15:59:41 `w 15:59:43 moth//Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs. 15:59:49 `scheme 15:59:49 Evil Comes to Fruition 15:59:50 `recipe 15:59:51 ​ not overcook. Seal and discard the meat \ with the chili powder and dust the lengthwise. \ \ Cover with fennel steak around the heat and beat in the cornstarch or water and soy sauce. \ Remove the broiler in a serving bowl. Stir together the olive oil, and \ salt together until mixture. Add the bread crumbs and heat well in a \ small bow 16:00:00 quick, someone save it before it disappears again 16:00:35 `` hg log -l 1 16:00:36 changeset: 11076:58a63c67dd0c \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 05 23:03:15 2017 +0000 \ summary: slwd `1//s,almost ,, 16:00:45 I'll do a clone of the repository. 16:00:54 fizzie: thanks 16:06:42 Also updated esolangs.org to point at the real thing, and thanks to the low TTL it should this time take only five minutes to propagate. 16:07:16 `perl -eprint 1+4+3+3+3+4+4+1 16:07:17 23 16:14:08 -!- augur has joined. 16:18:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:20:59 Cloned. Also added updating it to be part of the weekly esowiki backup. 16:21:17 -!- fizzie has set topic: mermaid umpires | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah. 16:21:18 -!- erkin has joined. 16:23:32 -!- Mayoi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:27:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:30:54 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:35:47 `? hungary 17:35:48 hungary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:36:05 `le//rn hungary//Hungary is the country where everyone is vary hungry. 17:36:07 Learned 'hungary': Hungary is the country where everyone is vary hungry. 17:41:29 Subject: [RESOLVED] host_down (esolangs.org) 17:43:14 I read the article about Amycus and in the part mentioninghow to make successor/predecessor of lists, I think the commas is supposed to be colons? 17:44:14 zzo38: wait, let me look up what you're talking about 17:46:12 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Amycus#Implementing 17:46:21 yes, you're probably right 17:48:37 I'm not sure the rules are right 17:52:28 [wiki] [[Amycus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52396&oldid=46671 * B jonas * (+7) /* Implementing */ 17:52:55 I hope they are 17:55:19 [wiki] [[Amycus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52397&oldid=52396 * B jonas * (+0) /* Implementing */ 17:56:07 HackEgo: are you real or an identical twin? 18:10:18 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 18:14:11 fizzie: I was worried about the existence of a backup, not specifically a copy you have. 18:17:06 [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52398&oldid=52389 * Kerbal * (-123) 18:18:03 `olist 1080 18:18:03 olist 1080: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 18:18:58 `hurl 18:18:58 https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/ 18:20:13 wob_jonas: This is one reason editing in /msg is discouraged. 18:20:49 -!- imode has joined. 18:22:48 I usually do sed in /msg, and then repeat the final thing with -i here. (I don't hold with these newfangled sleds and whatnot.) 18:23:22 -!- __kerbal___ has joined. 18:25:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:25:41 fizzie: That would be a good feature for sled. 18:25:54 I mean, a preview mode. 18:27:18 `revert 18:27:19 Done. 18:27:23 everything is back to normal 18:27:36 -!- __kerbal___ has changed nick to __kerbal__. 18:35:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:43:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:46:46 * oerjan hugs HackEgo 18:46:55 `botsnack 18:46:56 ​>:-D 18:48:21 -!- digitalcold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:49:41 @botsnake 18:49:41 :) 18:51:15 @botspank 18:51:15 :) 18:51:51 (let's see if we can get int-e to finally add channel-based levenshtein distances as he's threatened to) 18:51:53 -!- lambdabot has left. 18:51:59 aww 18:52:20 I believe I have found a simpler solution to the problem. 18:52:36 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:04:07 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:04 -!- Remavas has joined. 19:11:28 noo 19:11:33 I bet you disabled it 19:13:45 I didn't do a thing besides demonstrating the fact that having lambdabot on this channel is entirely optional. 19:14:48 ah 19:19:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:23:03 -!- augur has joined. 19:24:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:25:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:50 -!- augur has joined. 19:29:24 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:29:41 ais523: HackEgo and the esowiki are back 19:29:57 OK 19:30:07 I was aware that there were problems but trusted that they'd be sorted out 19:30:14 is it still on Cloud At Cost or has it migrated providers? 19:30:59 still on CaC 19:42:04 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:44:49 oerjan didn't appreciate my pun tdnh <-- i'd have to find it first twh 19:46:31 @google this C++ 19:46:33 http://www.geeksforgeeks.org/this-pointer-in-c/ 19:46:33 Title: 'this' pointer in C++ - GeeksforGeeks 19:47:00 `? this 19:47:01 this is a word 19:47:25 . o O ( this is me in C++ ) 19:48:20 int-e: C++ is TG 19:48:33 @quote int-e C++ 19:48:33 Plugin `quote' failed with: user error (parseRegex for Text.Regex.TDFA.String failed:"C++" (line 1, column 3): 19:48:33 unexpected '+' 19:48:33 expecting empty () or anchor ^ or $, an atom, "|" or end of input) 19:48:37 @quote int-e C\+\+ 19:48:37 int-e says: C++ does make a reasonably usable high-level assembler 19:49:15 C++ is nothing like assembler. It produces ridiculously inefficient code without an optimizer. 19:49:24 (I was generating deeply nested loops with templates at the time.) 19:49:28 So much recursive template expansion. 19:50:05 (So yes, I did effectively use it as a HLA, or perhaps HLC.) 19:50:06 * oerjan finally finds shachaf's pun -----### 19:51:10 I wonder why C++ doesn't allow this to be null? 19:51:12 shachaf: just stay away from objects and virtual methods and it'll be fine... except that compile time may be slow, and if you're unlucky your code won't fit into the cache. 19:52:32 it's so that compilers can optimize (this == NULL) checks away without violating the standard. 19:52:38 -!- MDude has joined. 19:52:44 Sure, it's a good language for producing efficient code. 19:53:04 (which may be the result of inlining a function that has such a check, but is invoked with `this` as its argument) 19:53:09 C++17 is TG 19:53:31 I think you're overusing "tg", hth. 19:54:28 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52399&oldid=52393 * Qwertyu63 * (+23) 19:54:49 1? TG 19:54:54 `? TG 19:54:54 TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. 19:55:17 hellobden 19:55:26 shichaf 19:56:14 Do you like LevelDB? 19:56:42 I can't say I'd ever heard of it before 19:56:44 shachaf: are you trying to become zzo38? 19:57:18 It's what I do. 19:57:19 Hm, it looks neat maybe 19:57:45 I was using "you" in the zzo38 sense, certainly. 20:01:29 oerjan: Does the backup wiki link need to stay in the topic? <-- i left it in because the DNS needs to propagate... 20:01:47 *needed 20:02:28 `? zzo38 20:02:29 zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. 20:02:34 `? shachaf 20:02:35 Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. 20:02:46 I'm still getting wiki requests on the backup machine, even though I had a TTL of 5 minutes in the temporary entry. 20:03:29 Well, okay, at the moment it seems to be only "AhrefsBot/5.2". 20:04:04 I should've configured to log the host name used to access it, maybe something already started crawling the address that formerly was in the topic. 20:05:17 where would they get that address though... 20:05:31 The channel logs, maybe. 20:06:25 "Ahrefsbot" sounds like something that follows Some sort of a SEO company. 20:08:28 encountered them before.. their crawler is fairly aggressive 20:08:40 -!- imode has joined. 20:11:47 Took a while to realize that Zucchini_cat.png probably refers to cat-the-program rather than cat-the-animal. 20:12:24 . o O ( index.php:if (strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'], 'AhrefsBot') !== false) { exit(0); } <-- leftover from a slow php frontend and a failure to set up a robots.txt protecting it. ) 20:13:04 Majestic's MJ12Bot was being pretty aggressive as well. 20:14:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:15:45 int-e: isn't it better to do that in a wobserver config file? 20:15:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:16:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:17:35 wob_jonas: maybe if you're the webserver admin :P 20:19:20 wob_jonas: Also, the robots.txt keeps this particular crawler away, but they only look at it for 24 hours. It was meant as a temporary workaround... but it never got removed. 20:19:40 -!- erkin has joined. 20:19:58 uhm, grammar. s/for/once every/ 20:20:51 robots.txt a day keeps the crawler away. 20:21:15 it also keeps the internet archive away. 20:21:34 You can put user-agent-qualified rules in there. 20:23:16 I added a disallow for "User-agent: SemrushBot" because their crawler was being *super* confused by MediaWiki's "URLs containing %3A get a 301 to the same URL with raw : instead" rule, trying to fetch the same thing over and over again, quite a few times per second. 20:24:05 I'm guessing they fetch, say, /foo%3Abar, get a 301 to /foo:bar, don't think that's a loop, then some piece of their infrastructure re-encodes that to /foo%3Abar for safety. 20:30:16 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:31:11 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheSquashyApple * New user account 20:40:07 fizzie: and it didn't give up after like 16 tries? 20:41:14 I don't think it gave up each page eventually, but there's no shortage of pages with :s if you crawl a MediaWiki page. 20:41:32 Er, I mean, I don't think it looped indefinitely, but did give up eventually. 20:42:31 I love these sites. http://esolangs.org.ourssite.com/ "Daily revenue: $829". 20:43:03 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52400&oldid=52352 * TheSquashyApple * (+248) 20:44:30 fizzie: would you sell the site for $302,688, assuming there was a buyer? 20:44:40 int-e: great, you're successfully keeping most of the site's revenue secret from tax auditors that use that site 20:44:44 [wiki] [[User:TheSquashyApple]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52401 * TheSquashyApple * (+56) Created page with "hi. i am some guy who likes apples and programming. bye." 20:44:48 also, do we really get 27 million unique visitors a year? 20:44:54 . 20:44:58 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:45:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:45:30 HexChat was acting stupid. 20:45:44 http://www.emojicode.org/ who would put this much effort in for an esolang?? 20:45:51 -!- TheSquashyApple has joined. 20:46:26 hi 20:46:34 hi TheSquashyApple 20:47:40 this is awkward :P 20:47:52 it's OK, lots of people just lurk on IRC 20:48:01 k 20:48:03 saying nothing until there's a conversation they're interested in 20:48:50 is there any way to actually get a l33t interpreter now? 20:48:57 . o O ( Applello! is a nice portmanteau, or should it have one 'l' less? ) 20:49:15 Emojicode has its own bytecode compiler and.. JIT I think 20:49:33 And I don't think it just translates emoji into keywords for another language or anything trivial like that 20:50:01 ais523: I don't feel like I own it, so possibly not. And I'm really sceptical about those visitor numbers. 20:50:06 TheSquashyApple: this one seems to have been archived in the Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20060620061727/http://chimpen.com:80/l33t/ 20:50:07 oerjan: you're the portmantexpert, would you prefer applello or applelo? 20:50:13 fizzie: so am I! 20:51:06 ais523: when i click run, it doesn't do anything... :| 20:51:21 it's a BF derivative so it should be easy enough to implement yourself 20:51:32 k 20:52:47 hmm, I wonder why its while loop is called if 20:54:28 ais523: We get less than that many *requests* per day, and a big chunk of those are crawlers of various kinds. 20:54:29 int-e: ThelloSquashyApple hth 20:54:53 Also their "Monthly Unique Visitors" is exactly 30 times "Daily Unique Visitors", which implies nobody ever comes back. 20:55:01 so hmm, does this mean that an above-average number of our viewers have Alexa opt-in spyware installed? 20:55:16 or right, that is a pretty suspicious relationship 20:55:20 and/or complete failure of maths 20:56:59 Heraclitus' SEO company: you cannot get the same visitor twice 20:57:56 I imagine they have a statistical model based on a sample of a dozen websites ... with factors like size of website, age, links coming in and out 20:58:16 alexa.com's similar page says the top 5 search keywords that send traffic to us are, in order, "wierd", "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa", "aaaaaaaaaaaaa", "weird" and "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa". 20:58:29 hah 20:58:52 The upstream sites (which sites visited before) list is at least pretty believable: google, ycombinator.com and stackexchange.com. 20:59:01 what's so special about 14 a's in a row 20:59:16 well one of them is an esolang 20:59:28 Thanks, google: "Searches related to aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" 20:59:59 one of them is "american association against acronym abuse", I wonder what they would say about this channel 21:01:03 AAAAAAAAAAAAAA, obviously. 21:01:21 Google's search console has a quite different list, and says the top query by far is "brainfuck", followed by "this=that programming language", "ook programming language", "brainfuck example" and "brain fuck". 21:01:44 This is all very brainfuck-heavy. 21:03:21 how do people make these languages!? 21:04:07 what's a this=that ? 21:04:33 I don't know what they were actually looking for, but http://esolangs.org/wiki/This=That is the #1 result. 21:05:40 That's an odd plot: https://zem.fi/tmp/esolangs-clicks.png 21:05:43 The bump is from May 24th to June 10th, during which time everyone wanted to know about brainfuck (and ook), it seems. 21:06:02 some contest, maybe? 21:06:08 Plausible. 21:07:40 fizzie: whoa ok 21:08:09 `? hungary 21:08:10 hungary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:08:25 `cwlprits hungary 21:08:32 shachäf rdocöc 21:09:15 or perhaps it was just https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/680huz/some_fun_with_brainfuck/ 21:09:50 I like this comment a lot: "We are looking for a passionate Brainfuck systems architect with 15 years experience for a social-media startup that's described like the Uber of bread-and-breakfast stays. The package includes shares, a common table tennis/swimming pool/bathroom space and your own bike parking lot." 21:13:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has left. 21:17:21 -!- augur has joined. 21:20:31 int-e: hehe 21:22:49 int-e: "Uber of bread-and-breakfast stays" is like https://www.xkcd.com/624/ 21:29:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:59 -!- S1 has joined. 21:32:37 -!- S1 has left. 22:16:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:41:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:50:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:55:19 -!- TheSquashyApple has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:56:58 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:23:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:32:41 I thought perhaps that the specification of Unusenet should include specification of "control channels"; no client, server, or echo is required to use them, however. I should need to think of how to do it, or maybe you have idea too 23:33:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:58:34 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 2017-07-09: 00:16:56 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jackojc * New user account 00:23:42 -!- boily has joined. 00:26:24 `w 00:26:25 supermarionation//Supermarionation is another name for the mushroom kingdom. 00:34:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: KERNAL CHICKEN). 00:37:12 -!- boily has joined. 00:37:45 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:14:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:14:19 `4 01:14:21 1/2:64) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. \ 131) < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon \ 1078) Even if the people who made that program is a murderer, the progra 01:14:23 oopse 01:14:24 `4 w 01:14:28 1/1:phantom_hoover//Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ not found//not found? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ metar//metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather. \ pietbot//Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 01:21:10 Is there a programming language that has string diagram syntax? 01:33:53 I don't know. If there is not, you could try to make it up 01:35:23 zzo38: Do you like string diagrams? 01:39:27 I am not sure 01:49:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:18:11 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:21:35 -!- APic has joined. 02:42:38 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:46:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BENDING CHICKEN). 02:58:51 shachaf: The proc-do-notation in Haskell is kind of like that... sort of. 03:20:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:59:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:09:57 Cale: Is it? 04:10:09 Maybe I should figure that syntax out one day. 04:10:16 What sort of structure do you need for string diagrams, in general? 04:35:42 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 04:45:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:45:36 shachaf: I mean, just vaguely, in that it's sort of also a notation for maps in a symmetric monoidal category 04:45:47 You need a weak 2-category 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:13:37 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:28:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:35:29 -!- martyrboy has quit. 06:05:58 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:38:08 -!- augur has joined. 07:17:04 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:44:07 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:45:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:44:08 -!- S1 has joined. 09:45:26 -!- S1 has left. 10:39:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Megaman * New user account 10:46:01 -!- augur has joined. 10:50:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:55:01 ^8ball are you wise? 10:55:01 No. 10:55:22 ^8ball let's make that best out of three? 10:55:22 No. 10:55:32 Oh well, you had your chance, fungot. 10:55:34 int-e: mr president, i should like to elucidate further, and the proposal takes holding companies into account it is in this respect, i want to thank mr beysen for his kind remarks about women's day, and when we have the question of co-determination. that was also mentioned by frau gebhardt that the cloning of humans. on the contrary, we need to have no bearing whatsoever on the subject, i regularly experience the deficiencies 10:55:41 ^style irc 10:55:41 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 10:58:33 ^style 10:58:33 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:58:53 "europarl" reads like newspeak to me. 11:06:06 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52402&oldid=52400 * Megaman * (+178) 11:06:20 [wiki] [[2xNeg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52403 * Megaman * (+829) Created page with "2xNeg is an esoteric programming language based on two types of negation. == Syntax == COMMAND : (NOPARCOMMAND|ONEPARCOMMAND|TWOPARCOMMAND) NOPARCOMMAND : ("v"|"{"|"..." 11:22:52 shachaf: well if you were forced to listen to fungot for an hour, but you could choose the style, which one would you choose? ;-) 11:22:52 int-e: fnord...?" asks someone in demi explained that ping? pong!' thing, but they tend to carry much more weight than technological ones. 11:23:32 (I guess europarl could be monotonic and soothing, in a way.) 11:24:09 and amazingly fnord-free. 11:35:24 It may not have had fnords enabled. 11:36:06 It probably also predates my use of variKN for model training. 11:41:36 The corpus is officially called "Europarl", by the way, it's not my own abbreviation. http://www.statmt.org/europarl/ 11:48:18 I know, I looked it up before making that comment. 12:12:57 [wiki] [[MMIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52404&oldid=52095 * B jonas * (+858) 12:15:58 ^style darwin 12:15:58 Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) 12:16:05 fungot 12:16:06 olsner: :( i see no evidence./ fuegians were probably compelled by other conquering hordes to settle in domestic and wild cats. 12:22:45 fungot: Why did Charles Darwin use so many emoticons in his works? 12:22:47 fizzie: geological observations on s. america."/ accompanying sketch, taken from different branches, may want specimens. but from long habit/ term :( unconscious selection, and were thus proved to be to many plants, which were attached to/ so-called fifteenth cervical vertebra occasionally becomes modified into a dorsal vertebra, and is sometimes constricted in parts. it seemed worth while to contradict single cases nor is it/ 12:24:10 could :( be the darwin fnord? 12:25:42 It's actually the Darwin "of". 12:25:48 And / is the Darwin "the". 12:36:42 -!- Remavas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:27:40 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 13:47:26 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:49:47 -!- staffehn has joined. 14:00:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:06:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:49:05 -!- Remavas has joined. 15:13:09 -!- boily has joined. 15:46:42 -!- juh9870 has joined. 15:46:53 Hi everyone 15:48:07 Is there any interpreters for ACRONYM? 16:05:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:05:58 Hi 16:17:29 juhello9870, hellørjan. 16:18:29 sounds like there aren't any. 16:20:14 Щр 16:20:20 Щр 16:20:21 hmm 16:20:28 Oh, 16:20:38 i will try to write one 16:31:01 helloily. 16:32:55 @metar ENVA 16:32:56 ENVA 091520Z 24007KT 9999 FEW042CB SCT110 17/12 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 31004KT 16:33:16 possible thunderstorm supposed to approach. 16:33:38 @metar lowi 16:33:38 LOWI 091520Z 11009KT 080V140 9999 -SHRA FEW008 FEW070CB SCT075 18/17 Q1016 BECMG NSW 16:33:55 ? 16:34:03 @metar CYUL 16:34:03 @help metar 16:34:03 CYUL 091500Z 24014KT 30SM FEW030 FEW120 SCT240 21/14 A2986 RMK CF1AC1CI2 CF TR SLP115 DENSITY ALT 900FT 16:34:03 metar 16:34:04 Look up METAR weather data for given airport. 16:34:16 @metar CYQB 16:34:16 CYQB 091500Z 23008G15KT 25SM FEW028 FEW048 BKN092 BKN200 20/15 A2977 RMK CF1CU2AC3CI2 CF TR SLP083 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 16:34:54 is there a word where you feel like you are slowly steamed alive at a low temperature? 16:35:03 humidity? 16:35:24 (humidliation?) 16:35:41 * boily feels humidlified 16:36:28 hmmm humiquified 16:37:17 no mention of thunder and lightning, hmm 16:37:32 hm where was that site again 16:39:03 your region definitely seems to have more than the trondheim area http://nb.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=10 16:39:27 (it seems they've added stupid localized urls) 16:41:36 it makes... noise?! 16:42:01 hm i don't hear any. there's a setting unless they've changed it. 16:42:25 there is a geigercounterlike noise. 16:42:35 what's a forsinkelse? 16:43:04 hm i actually hear no sound regardless of how i set it. 16:43:09 boily: delay 16:43:22 cute site otherwise 16:43:48 ok, so it's doubly stupid and doesn't redirect you to your own language if someone links you? 16:44:15 i'm pretty sure the sound used to work previously. 16:45:14 http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=10 <-- it's encoded in the host name 16:46:21 "it" being the language 16:46:28 well that was obvious. 16:46:47 (i suppose you have to know that nb = norwegian bokmål) 16:46:47 Can someone help? 16:46:50 It almost never hurts to clarify those things. 16:48:00 "-> and -" row turns into "3 1 0" 16:48:03 right? 16:48:58 blogspot's localized urls at least have the decency to redirect automatically, although it still messes up visited link coloring if you've seen a different language version before. 16:49:28 (so i define those as singly stupid.) 16:52:54 juh9870: right. 16:53:42 * oerjan feels some humidliation as well. 16:56:33 еыч 16:56:36 tsx 16:59:38 Russian much? 17:05:23 потрясающий 17:09:23 `grwp shocking 17:09:34 No output. 17:15:06 @metar EGLL 17:15:06 EGLL 091550Z AUTO 20007KT 140V250 9999 NCD 27/12 Q1011 NOSIG 17:16:16 @boily Ukranian 17:16:16 Unknown command, try @list 17:16:37 boily: Ukranian 17:18:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:18:38 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:19:39 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 17:19:48 -!- sdhand has joined. 17:20:11 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest18659. 17:33:11 -!- augur has joined. 17:40:50 this thunderstorm is disappointingly sunny. 17:41:28 hi, ii have aanother question about ACRONYM 17:41:54 iv i'm curently on second memory layer and execute { command i will be sent to first layer 17:42:35 bit if i'm currently on first layer and execute } command 17:42:47 should programm ends, or it just sends me back to 0'th layer? 17:47:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:58:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:06 "europarl" reads like newspeak to me. <-- parlez vous euro? 18:03:35 oh, after two hours of work i made some commands works: > and <, ^ and v, -> and -<, { and } 18:08:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:09:35 Yeah! 18:09:45 i made |^ and |v works 18:10:30 today i will make ~ works 18:11:00 tommorow i will fight against loops 18:11:43 Tslil Clingman, DO YOU HEAR ME??? I WILL HUNT AND KILL YOU!!!! 18:15:19 i done almost nothing 18:15:29 but it currently 245 lines 18:16:24 180 without including HTML code 18:19:09 lines don't matter. weightless code transcends space and memory. you will achieve unity when nothing will have ever been written. 18:19:36 `? zen 18:19:38 zen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:20:19 * boily hunts for some coffee 18:20:23 What is currently 245 lines, and 180 without including HTML code? 18:20:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FAR CHICKEN). 18:21:35 And, how can it be called almost nothing? The number of lines of codes needed depend what program 18:49:23 -!- Guest18659 has changed nick to sdhand. 18:49:32 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 18:49:32 -!- sdhand has joined. 18:52:00 `metar EGSC 18:52:02 lambdabot: @metar EGSC 18:52:02 EGSC 091650Z 20006KT 9999 SCT051TCU 26/14 Q1009 18:54:29 Hi 18:54:38 i made ~ command work 18:54:53 Hmm 18:55:14 now i'm think about start working on loops 19:02:29 Also i found an error in the wiki 19:02:47 Second code for printing "T" is incorrect 19:02:52 due to table of commans 19:03:37 instead of executing output command it executes input command 19:04:08 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:27:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:28:15 -!- juh9870 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:42:49 -!- imode has joined. 19:53:44 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 19:54:15 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:55:14 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 20:02:23 Do you see any type safe way to create objects with native data in N-API? http://nodejs.org/dist/latest-v8.x/docs/api/n-api.html I wanted to have a function to get the finalizer callback of an object, which would help with that, but there isn't one, but do you see any other way that I may have missed? 20:11:55 -!- j-bot has joined. 20:20:22 Just to know your opinion, would you have thought of doing it a different way than being able to retrieve the finalizer callback? 20:46:14 [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52405 * B jonas * (+14401) Created page with "'''MIX''' is a computer architecture created by Donald Knuth. Knuth is writing a grand monography ''The Art of Computer Programming'', and in older editions of that book, he..." 20:47:16 [wiki] [[MMIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52406&oldid=52404 * B jonas * (+16) 20:48:45 [wiki] [[MIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52407&oldid=13322 * B jonas * (+84) 20:48:57 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52408&oldid=52378 * B jonas * (+18) 20:50:07 [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52409&oldid=52379 * B jonas * (-14) 20:51:10 Is MIX the oldest computer instruction set? 20:51:35 It predates MMIX by 1000 years. 20:53:05 I don't know, but I think it doesn't 1000 years, just the number is 1000 less 20:57:42 But MMIX was standardized in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Nine. 21:00:43 `grwp roman 21:00:44 ance:Spelling of -ance/-ence words: advance, science, conference, experience, finance, insurance, licence, performance, reference, assistance, balance, defence, difference, distance, evidence, acceptance, appliance, audience, compliance, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, preference, presence, sentence, sequence, substance, 21:01:00 `grwp roman 21:01:01 mroman:mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. \ mroman_:mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW) \ superduperinteressantesanderson 21:01:18 `2 grwp roman 21:01:19 2/4:nce, violence, absence, accordance, alliance, appearance, assurance, attendance, circumstance, clearance, confidence, consequence, entrance, excellence, existence, fragrance, governance, guidance, independence, offence, refinance, residence, resistance, romance. \ blsqbot:blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'. \ burlesque:Burlesque is only t 21:01:33 `2 grwp 'roman ' 21:01:34 2/2:rsonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal:Superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal is where mroman lives. 21:01:59 `2 grwp 'Roman ' 21:02:01 2/1: 21:02:06 `grwp 'Roman ' 21:02:07 No output. 21:02:23 sheesh 21:04:32 `grwp lanfair 21:04:33 llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch:Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is a village in Wales. 21:10:17 `` cd wisdom; sed -i 's/./L/' llanfair* 21:10:18 llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch//Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is a village in Wales. 21:10:28 oh wait 21:10:37 misraed 21:15:15 "You can currently only use the internet in the UK and abroad." 21:15:28 The word "only" here is confusing me a little. 21:18:13 Maybe you can't use anything else 21:19:05 . o O ( probably excludes Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man ) 21:19:07 won't work on the moon or Mars? 21:20:21 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:20:50 hmm, that Korean missile launch is becoming a bit of a mystery; why does US Pacific Command say they tracked the missile for 37 minutes when Russia says it flew for 13 minutes, 44 seconds? 21:21:16 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:21:47 (sources, http://allthingsnuclear.org/dwright/north-korea-appears-to-launch-missile-with-6700-km-range and https://www.rt.com/news/395791-north-korea-russia-un/ ) 21:21:49 " Is MIX the oldest computer instruction set?" => no, the sand thingy from ICFP predates it 21:22:49 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 21:23:18 shachaf: OK, so in that case the number for the processor is the same as the year; that is not always the case though. 21:24:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:26:08 <\oren\> http://imgur.com/5wmbxRh 21:26:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:30:37 <\oren\> https://pastebin.com/VsafetmZ 21:31:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 21:32:09 <\oren\> kerboscript is awesome 21:53:59 Is there such thing as numeric ICAO codes? 21:54:19 (For use when a numeric code is needed and the alphabetic code is not suitable) 21:57:26 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 21:58:02 I assume you'd just take the alphabetic code and run it through a numeric encoding of the alphabet 22:00:11 Yes, and one way could be base26, I suppose. Numeric ICAO codes can be invented if they do not already exist. 22:06:14 [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52410&oldid=52405 * B jonas * (+1781) 22:20:03 zzo38: you could also use the ITA2 alphabet to get 5 bits per letter. 22:20:30 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:20:37 Yes, that is another way, and possibly in some cases it might be better 22:25:48 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:30:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:39:48 [wiki] [[@]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52411 * Gemdude46 * (+1747) Created page with "@ is a golfing language created and maintained by [[User:Gemdude46]]. It is still in its very early stages. An interpreter, vague documentation and some examples are available..." 22:53:07 -!- asie has left. 22:53:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:54:38 -!- augur has joined. 23:05:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:15:23 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 23:18:06 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:32:31 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:34:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:35:38 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 23:55:11 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 2017-07-10: 00:20:28 -!- imode has joined. 00:27:11 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:34:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:35:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:55 -!- FreeFull has joined. 00:37:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:37:47 <\oren\> https://pastebin.com/s2Ga8rRY 00:44:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:01:29 -!- iovoid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:47:01 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:53:37 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:23:18 I am in the process of making the interface to Swiss Ephemeris for use with JavaScript, by use of N-API. 02:29:15 -!- iovoid has joined. 02:31:16 -!- imode has joined. 02:36:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:36:55 There are some thing it does not do because Swiss Ephemeris does not have, such as house positions (and sidereal time) relative to planets (and also moon and sun) other than the Earth, calculation of moons of other planets, rotation of other planets, etc 02:43:18 How can I add these other thing that is missing? 02:46:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:58:40 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:18:24 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:20:26 -!- erkin has joined. 03:44:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:44:41 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:45:33 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 03:57:43 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:13:34 http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/35_pt/look_around_you.jpg 04:13:43 Look Aroud You's periodic table 04:13:47 It's too good. 04:13:56 Tg 04:13:59 2-gudium 04:38:26 -!- imode has joined. 04:46:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:49:33 segnomin (thomason's oil) 04:49:42 haha fAu 04:50:09 Ty - thankium 04:56:50 <\oren\> https://pastebin.com/nneEPW2g 04:57:55 You should annotate your KSP links. 05:01:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:02:20 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:07:01 <\oren\> shachaf: annote how? 05:07:43 Indicate that people who don't care about KSP don't need to click on them. 05:09:43 Just indicating that it is KSP should be good enough, I suppose 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:10:52 Yes, that's what I mean. 05:11:06 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:14:57 OK 05:24:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:50:31 I was interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangjie_input_method#Early_Cangjie_system for a long time 05:50:46 and found a demo and library for DOS 05:51:07 https://p.mearie.org/gOHG.png it works surprisingly well, given its size (approx <500KB combined) 05:57:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:01:00 -!- augur has joined. 06:04:23 -!- Deewiant_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:04:48 -!- Deewiant has joined. 06:07:59 If you know some thing about astronomy, how can you figure the signed phase angle? There is a picture here https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Phase_Angle_3.jpg but I will want the answer to be negative if the Earth is on the other side of the line (the angle will be the same though) 06:16:45 (Also, that picture is JPEG even though it can work better as PNG, if converted to pure black and white, and that stb_image is unable to load that JPEG file.) 06:19:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:28:25 -!- imode has joined. 06:30:43 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:48:20 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:50:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:50:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:00:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:02:01 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:06:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:15:21 -!- erkin has joined. 07:20:10 I think I figured it out (maybe) 07:28:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:30:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:48:49 -!- imode has joined. 07:53:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:56:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:08:51 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 08:09:50 -!- tromp has joined. 08:30:16 lifthrasiir: The other thing then is the Cangjie encoding. For Chinese texts it seem like might be good to have 08:30:45 zzo38: I was aware of it, but I didn't know about specifics (e.g. the exact encoding form, rendering strategy etc) 08:32:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:39:53 zzo38: if my analysis is correct, the bulk of data is actually the ideographic decomposition map (down to individual strokes or semi-strokes); the resulting instructions are rendered by the "font routine" which is a vector-drawing machine with some size-constrained hinting mechanism (I presume) 08:41:30 what I'm unsure is whether the decomposition map itself can be directly visualized or not 09:27:55 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:54:31 -!- augur has joined. 09:58:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:05:34 @quote monochrom IO 10:05:34 monochrom says: no, you're thinking imperatively. when thinking functionally, you just worry one element, and let recursion worry the rest 10:05:40 @quote monochrom IO.a 10:05:40 monochrom says: And so, I use formal logic all the time, and can still be very practical and speedy. This is contrary to most people's conventional wisdom. This is because they have only seen very 10:05:40 primitive formal logics, like if you have only seen assembly code, you think programming is undoable. 10:05:45 @quote monochrom IO\sa 10:05:45 No quotes match. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 10:05:48 @quote monochrom IO.a 10:05:49 monochrom says: Obession with operational semantics is a fundamental disease of imperative programmers (including imperative OO ones). 10:05:55 @quote monochrom extract 10:05:55 monochrom says: How do I extract the IO out of IO String? 10:05:57 Ah. 10:06:40 "if you have only seen assembly code, you think programming is undoable" 10:07:29 I think that's only true if your assembly code is for a reversible machine. 10:08:24 what's a reversible machine? 10:14:40 it's an enichma 10:15:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Kayak is closer to a serious answer 10:17:35 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing 10:22:33 wasn't there a language where programs built a group over concatenation? 10:26:35 ah, burro wa sit 11:23:25 \oren\: SoundHound has worked for me exactly once. 11:24:24 shachaf: how many times has it failed to work? 11:24:55 i,i CompleteHound 11:25:07 hm? 11:25:26 My point was, have you tried it more than a handful of times? 11:25:35 -!- S1 has joined. 11:25:47 I don't know. It showed me 20 searches in the history just now, but probably many of them were repeated attempts. 11:26:01 -!- S1 has left. 11:26:02 And I probably cleared the history and/or switched phones at least once. 11:26:02 ah 11:26:08 shachaf: From googling, it seems to be similar to TrackID? 11:26:17 Maybe a dozen attempts? 11:26:26 which is some Sony thing that came preinstalled on my Sony phone 11:26:46 which seems to only handle mainstream music 11:26:47 I always try it with music in my head, not music I hear. 11:26:57 hm? 11:27:05 what, humming the music? 11:27:08 It tells you to hum, whistle, or sing. 11:27:24 oh, yeah trackid doesn't even pretend to be able to do that 11:27:45 It's a tricky thing, to be fair. 11:28:35 -!- boily has joined. 11:28:36 anyway trackid kind of works, in low noise conditions, and if the music is popular enough. Good luck identifying obscure folk/world music 11:29:20 The song it identified was "Song from a Secret Garden", which is part of an album called "Songs from a Secret Garden", by a band called "Secret Garden". 11:29:26 I think this one is a bit famous? 11:30:25 Wait, maybe it identified this one from listening to a recording, not humming. 11:30:28 Now I'm not sure. 11:42:56 . o O ( "try whistling in tune" ) 11:43:52 What is "in tune"? 11:44:08 Do you mean approximately the same frequencies as the original, or just the same ratios? 11:44:42 Can I transpose everything up by a semitone? How about 4.5 semitones? I assume any good system should handle that. 11:44:45 I think it really means the former, and no I can't think of a good reason why the program wouldn't compensate for that. 11:45:01 Anyway, when I want to use this program, I barely know the tune in the first place. 11:45:14 I have a small fragment of it in my head that I can barely grasp onto. 11:48:45 Do you like kitsch? 11:52:17 it sounds as awful as the concept it embodies, does that make it onomatopoeia? 11:53:14 I liked this talk: http://www.ludix.com/moriarty/apology.html 11:53:36 It's by the same person as that talk in The Witness that you may or may not have heard. 11:54:14 the long one? 11:55:23 Yes. 11:56:09 I see, http://www.ludix.com/moriarty/psalm46.html 11:56:31 That was the one. 11:59:14 anyway I recall I spent that time cooking, in and out of the room (it's a small flat, I could listen from the kitchen in principle but of course there were distractions) 11:59:38 What would you do with fresh diced tomatoes? 12:00:05 bruschetta. 12:00:07 I diced some tomatoes to make salad, but then it turned out the other vegetables I planned to use were rotten. 12:00:17 So I needed to make quick use of diced fresh tomatoes. 12:00:34 shachaf: eat them? 12:00:41 As was? 12:00:50 the tomatoes that is, not the rotten food 12:00:58 (I ended up cooking them into a sort of sauce and jamming up rice with it.) 12:01:02 ah 12:01:13 shachaf: maybe oven baked tomatoes? 12:01:25 with some parmesan 12:01:55 Hmm, maybe. 12:02:31 yeah tomatoes, parmesan and some herbs (preferably fresh, but tried probably works too) 12:03:04 Even when diced? 12:03:06 maybe oregano? 12:03:09 not sure 12:03:15 I'll keep it in mind. 12:03:23 Do you pronounce the h in herbs? 12:03:39 shachaf: I say kryddor in Swedish instead. 12:04:02 but isn't the h thing a dialect thing? 12:04:18 It is probably "erbs" in RP 12:04:27 . o O ( herbe Enttäuschung ) 12:04:48 I thought the h was pronounced in British English in general. 12:04:51 and I'm not sure if I pronounce the h. Probably varies? 12:05:10 herbe dragons 12:05:10 From a Swedish point of view it would make more sense to pronounce it 12:05:27 Pretty sure I'd pronounce it as well. 12:05:29 shachaf: dragon is the Swedish name for tarragon 12:05:56 In the US, it's "an herb" 12:06:08 with the h pronounced or not? 12:06:22 Pronounced like "erb" 12:06:27 Is there a good way to dice tomatoes? 12:06:43 It's one of the most awkward kitchen activities. 12:06:49 well I'm going to settle for the compromise, and pronounce it slightly :P 12:07:00 . o O ( freeze and saw... no I don't think that's actually a good way ) 12:07:05 shachaf: plastic cutting board? 12:07:18 use less watery tomatoes? 12:07:26 sharp knife 12:07:30 there are many sub-species 12:07:39 yes sharp knifes are good 12:07:50 shachaf: do you pronounce the k in knife? 12:07:55 I would assume no 12:08:04 no 12:08:18 Vorpal: The trouble is that you need three axes of cutting. 12:08:19 English is weird with it's non-pronounced letters. Why not just spell it nife then? 12:08:28 Why not nayf? 12:08:43 Silent e is properly bizarre. 12:08:48 nif? 12:08:51 The funny thing about knot theory is that it's knot theory. 12:08:54 naif? 12:09:07 shachaf: don't agree with the y 12:09:24 I'd read "nif" as with /i:/ 12:09:27 only a naïf would spell it that way 12:09:32 @wn naïf 12:09:33 No match for "naïf". 12:09:35 @wn naif 12:09:36 *** "naif" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 12:09:36 naif 12:09:37 adj 1: marked by or showing unaffected simplicity and lack of 12:09:37 guile or worldly experience; "a teenager's naive 12:09:37 ignorance of life"; "the naive assumption that things can 12:09:38 [4 @more lines] 12:09:40 hm 12:09:41 @more 12:09:41 Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list 12:09:49 scambdabot 12:10:03 a naive person is a naif? Didn't know that word 12:10:07 that's.... interesting 12:10:16 @more 12:10:16 Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list 12:10:30 I suppose it has always done this 12:10:31 To my mind, i is a vowel and y is a consonant 12:10:38 well yes 12:10:45 And "knife" has a consonant 12:10:50 It shows off the maturity of Haskell as a programming language. 12:10:56 True, in English y is a consonant 12:11:19 way nat 12:11:27 this is making me angry! 12:11:32 (yay) 12:11:34 y is a vowel in Swedish though 12:11:36 What is? 12:11:43 The @more thing? 12:11:57 shachaf: "angry" is a word where "y" is not a consonant. 12:12:07 no, the @more thing doesn't really bother me. 12:12:16 I might fix it, but I feel no sense of urgency. 12:12:33 Oh, sure. ybden is probably angry. 12:12:43 aeyiuoåäö are vowels in Swedish 12:13:08 Funny, almost all the vowels are on the upper row of qwerty 12:13:16 Do you like mushrooms in Sweden? 12:13:18 in English, all of them apart from a? 12:13:40 shachaf: depends on what sort I guess? I prefer the edible ones that don't kill me :P 12:14:19 Do you like kantarells? 12:14:32 That's a popular mushroom. 12:14:51 yes, but I don't actively go out looking for them. Too much work, and I'm bad at spotting them 12:15:26 So *why* are the vowels predominately on the top row of qwerty? 12:15:46 It makes sense to group vowels together if they're rarely combined. 12:16:21 Not sure why not put them on the home row. 12:16:40 but wasn't qwerty designed for slow writing originally? To not break typewriters? 12:16:54 No, it was designed to not break typewrites. 12:16:55 r 12:17:09 aöä are the only vowels on the home row for me 12:17:13 Which means you don't want adjacent keys to be pressed immediately one after the other. 12:17:37 But putting common letter combinations far apart actually speeds you up because you can use both hands. 12:17:43 True 12:18:02 I don't know whether this is true but it makes more sense to me than "slows you down". 12:18:07 @time 12:18:10 Local time for shachaf is Mon Jul 10 04:18:07 2017 12:18:12 I'm going to sleep. 12:18:13 the adjacency relation is probably this: qazwsxedcrfvtgbyhnujmik,ol.p;/['] 12:18:16 @time 12:18:16 Local time for Vorpal is Mon Jul 10 13:18:16 12:18:20 Good luck with your mushroom hunting. 12:18:21 ah, CTCP TIME 12:18:31 shachaf: I don't go mushroom hunting 12:18:37 I don't find it enoyable :P 12:18:43 Then you'll need an awful lot of luck. 12:18:57 Maybe some morels will grow in your back yard? 12:19:03 do you like morels? 12:19:03 (rows are interleaved if I remember the workings of the mechanical typewriter that we got to play with as kids correctly) 12:19:07 int-e: oh? kind of vertically, right, makes some sense 12:19:29 shachaf: I don't have a backyard, I live in a apartment on the second floor 12:19:34 oh, digits go in there as well I suppose 12:19:52 well, a condo I guess the correct term is 12:20:03 Vorpal: Every statement you make suggests that you need *more* luck, not less. 12:20:08 So I wish you luck. 12:20:17 What's the difference between a condo and an apartment? 12:20:19 right :P 12:20:26 And a flat? 12:20:29 shachaf: I think the form of ownership? 12:20:31 maybe 12:20:49 shachaf: I own the apartment as opposed to rent it. 12:21:05 But you still pay some form of rent, right? 12:21:10 For the shared building expenses? 12:21:13 google translate says bostadsrätt -> condominium 12:21:29 What a bizarre chemical element. 12:21:39 shachaf: yes, there is that 12:21:41 indeed 12:22:17 shachaf: but I can renovate and do whatever I like with the interior 12:22:17 Should I buy an apartment? 12:22:39 I can't tell you that. You will have to decide based on your life situation if that makes sense for you or not 12:22:46 I suspect it doesn't. 12:23:12 Also the market is probably different in US than Sweden 12:23:41 Especially in this area of the US. 12:23:47 oh? 12:24:12 I think the price/rent ratio is much higher here than elsewhere in the country. 12:24:17 I need to buy some sour milk, almost out of it. 12:24:33 Can you wait for your regular milk to become sour? 12:25:08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmj%C3%B6lk ? 12:25:14 shachaf: will likely not be the proper bacterial culture and thus will be poisonous 12:25:18 yes filmjölk 12:25:24 A-fil specifically 12:25:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SERRATED CHICKEN). 12:25:49 Well, it's only most likely, not certain. 12:26:01 So you can get some of the excitement of mushroom hunting. 12:26:07 um 12:26:08 what 12:26:32 If you pick some random mushroom, it might be poisonous or delicious. 12:26:34 Or both. 12:26:37 ah right 12:26:52 shachaf: or possibly hallucinogenic 12:28:51 I may try your tomato trick. 12:29:06 Good night. 12:29:20 sleep well 12:30:04 The thing about tomatoes is that there's an amazing amount of variance in quality. 12:31:31 shachaf: especially home growns 12:31:42 they are better quality than shop bought ones 12:31:50 even better than organic ones 12:32:05 What is organic tomatoes? 12:32:22 Are vegetables labeled as "organic" a good idea to buy? 12:32:36 shachaf: organic food is food produced without using pesticides 12:32:45 Does organic farming produce vegetables that are more delicious or more healthy? 12:32:52 What? That doesn't sound right. 12:33:00 Do you mean without certain classes of pesticides? 12:33:27 nope, I meant what I said. 12:33:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food 12:33:41 "For instance, naturally occurring pesticides such as pyrethrin and rotenone are permitted, while synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are generally prohibited." 12:33:54 Oh, that's not your article, that's Organic_farming 12:34:14 well yeah it is the same. Some plants produce pesticides in and of themselves 12:34:51 Is organic farming sustainable? Does it waste resources? 12:35:01 "organic" means so many different things. 12:35:03 anyway I read a study a while ago that showed that the levels of various toxins in the body decreased dramatically after eating only organic food for about a week. 12:35:24 Sometimes, when referring to animal products, it can mean the animals are treated better. Or sometimes not. 12:35:32 shachaf: 1) maybe 2) not really, depends on your definition 12:35:48 shachaf: the Swedish terms are more precise I feel like 12:35:52 I didn't read that study. 12:35:59 no it was a Swedish study I think 12:36:16 not sure I could find it, was maybe 1-2 years ago 12:36:18 I sometimes get the impression that "organic" is primarily a marketing term designed to part rich people from their fAu. 12:36:35 Maybe the Swedish version is better. 12:36:47 shachaf: also, there are issues with pesticides killing off good insects as well. Like bees. 12:37:14 well, there is a standards organization with certification 12:37:20 KRAV 12:37:21 On the other hand I'm rich by some measures, so maybe I should buy organic food to be on the safe side. 12:37:44 not sure if US has anything like KRAV 12:37:56 It's not a matter of price but a matter of principle. 12:38:13 Anyway, it's way too late. 12:38:18 I'm going to try to sleep. 12:38:23 right 12:39:54 anyway, you will have to study the topic and make up your own mind about it. I buy exclusively organic food for any food where it is available. (I.e. there is no organic salt, probably because the definition wouldn't make any sense) 12:41:04 shachaf: Good organic cheese can be hard to find as well. Other than that, I would say Sweden is probably one of the countries in the world where it is easiest to find organic alternatives 13:20:46 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 13:20:55 -!- sdhand has joined. 13:21:18 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 13:21:18 -!- sdhand has joined. 13:25:58 shachaf: ahaha, I just noticed on the look around you periodic table, Music has the numbers 4 4, while Jazz has 5 4 13:49:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:41:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:42:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:43:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:55:06 -!- augur has joined. 14:59:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:01:09 shachaf: funny that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Moriarty should call that video an Easter egg. 15:09:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:23:38 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:36:17 -!- jix has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:36:32 -!- jix has joined. 15:38:52 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:51:14 -!- Cale has joined. 16:21:51 -!- augur has joined. 16:37:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:14:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:15:30 -!- S1 has joined. 17:15:57 -!- S1 has left. 17:25:50 -!- lord_EarlGray has joined. 17:27:39 hello 17:28:49 hello 17:30:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:38:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:46:21 -!- lord_EarlGray has left. 17:52:08 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 17:54:59 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 17:55:34 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:55:37 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:55:39 `olist 1081 17:55:40 olist 1081: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 17:55:45 yes, apparently just two days after 1080 17:57:04 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:00:31 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:02:26 Vorpal: I live in Berkeley, CA. I don't think it's very difficult to find things labeled "organic". 18:02:44 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 18:03:12 int-e: Funny indeed. Did they listen to the talk? 18:03:45 Why am I trying to use LaTeX to print labels for the back of binders... 18:04:15 shachaf: ironically one bit that I did not listen to was where he says what the topic of the lecture is :-P (I skimmed the transcript) 18:04:26 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 18:05:07 The uniformity and the exact typesettings were my original goals. Plus cutting guides and such. But getting LaTeX to actually place something at exact coordinates on a page and then make it line up across all pages is painful 18:06:55 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:07:04 `wisdom 18:07:05 russell's teapot//Russell's little Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show? 18:07:12 `quote 18:07:13 785) zzo38: i only like games whose names start with "mine" 18:07:26 `starwars 18:07:27 `scheme 18:07:27 Jocasta Nu 18:07:28 Tooth, Claw, and Tail 18:08:40 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:09:33 wow, unusual panel layout 18:09:33 I mean, on some binders I want one or more lines of subtitles (like 2014-2017). This tends to move the title up compared to other binders. Such that the titles don't line up across the different binders 18:09:48 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 18:10:34 I guess LaTeX just isn't great for when you *do* want to worry about the layout. In that case you need to make your own style file I guess. Which is way over my LaTeX skills currently. 18:11:18 wob_jonas: Don't standard healing spells work against the virus? 18:13:55 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:14:19 I just use Plain TeX (and have used it to make a label on the back of a binder once) 18:16:09 shachaf: that would need someone who can cast a level 3 cleric spell, and they'd probably have to do that for each creature on the airship at close to the same time. 18:16:45 shachaf: there has been in-comic discussion of how that works already 18:16:59 Where? 18:17:04 It's not a spell bards have access to. 18:17:05 -!- imode has joined. 18:17:19 shachaf: IIRC related to the control weather thing 18:17:23 I guess curing disease is distinct from curing wounds. 18:17:34 the vampire in Durkon's body uses control weather directly against a thunderstorm sent by Thor 18:17:48 ais523: Oh, sure, a discussion saying that they could indeed use standard healing spells. 18:17:56 and Thor has to let it succeed due to an agreement among the gods to allow each others' clerics to intervene 18:18:00 shachaf: yes, it can be done by the specific level 3 Cure Disease spell, or the level 6 Heal spell. 18:18:03 But I suppose they don't have convenient access to a cleric. 18:18:05 so standard healing spells should work here on the same reasoning 18:18:37 ais523: the problem is that #1081 says every creature on the airship is inflected. That's a lot of people and animals. 18:18:44 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeDisease.htm 18:18:53 in theory, Belkar could cast it if given a Wisdom boost 18:18:57 I think the odds of that happening are pretty low 18:19:21 zzo38: TeX without addons? Hm 18:19:32 however, the duration is long enough that it should be fixable after the current arc is over 18:19:45 ais523: even in that unlikely case, Belkar could only cast it a few times 18:19:46 zzo38: or is Plain TeX a specific addon to TeX? 18:20:38 they'd have a much higher chance to pay multiple clerics next time they stay in a town. but they just left a town and then a meeting of clerics. 18:20:44 Vorpal: Plain TeX is the default addon to TeX. 18:20:55 ah 18:21:31 Plain TeX is the canon default template file in the sense that it's one of the templates Knuth himself has made and it's the one the TeXbook describes 18:21:32 Why not boost Belkar's wisdom again? 18:21:37 yeah I'm googling for high level LaTeX solutions currently. There seem to be a few options. Not sure how well they will fit though. 18:22:35 or if they solve my specific problem of lining specific types of lines up across multiple pages/labels. I already found a solution to putting multiple small pages on a single standard A4 18:24:02 If you are making labels rather than a book, you might also use a different output routine than the default one. 18:24:06 shachaf: because (a) boosting his wisdom was a joke, it doesn't really work, (b) it's a level 3 spell, you'd have to boost his wisdom to at least 13, which is likely impossible as his base is probably too low and the standard wisdom boost spell only gives +4, 18:24:29 zzo38: different style? 18:24:39 or document class as it were 18:24:56 that is what I'm searching for at the moment 18:25:00 (c) even if they did that, he'd get at most two uses of a level 3 spell per day, and the Cure Disease spell only fixes one person, and that person can be reinfected. 18:25:14 https://ctan.org/pkg/labels and https://www.ctan.org/pkg/ticket both seems potentially relevant 18:26:25 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 18:27:37 (d) Owl's Wisdom can bring Belkar through the wisdom limit, but it doesn't count for the number of spells prepared, which I think will probably still be zero for Belkar because of his low base wisdom 18:28:13 (the spell is specified like this because regaining spells takes a rest of at least two hours, but Owl's Wisdom increases someone's wisdom only for a few minutes) 18:29:06 (d) was my largest objection to the plan 18:29:11 the others are pretty relevant too, though 18:29:17 (fwiw, I think (a) is caused by (d)) 18:29:31 wob_jonas: DnD? 18:30:07 seems like it based on context. Or it is MtG knowing this channel 18:30:25 ais523: yes, (a) is caused mostly by (d) and partly by (b) 18:30:56 Vorpal: D&D, related to what happens in the Order of the Stick strip #1081 18:31:05 ah 18:31:19 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:31:23 Vorpal: I tried to ask about M:tG rules too yesterday, but ais523 denied that he knew them 18:31:26 wob_jonas: I played a couple of systems, but never DnD itself. 18:31:42 I'm not an expert on them 18:32:07 So the last time his wisdom score was raised it was used for casting a scroll. 18:32:24 Savage World, Apocalypse World and a pretty good yet to be published Swedish system (I have a friend who is really into designing role playing systems) 18:33:10 ais523: wait wait, (a) can't be caused by (d). The joke use was for a scroll, the number of prepared spells doesn't matter for that, only a spell difficulty check does, right? 18:33:23 Actually it wasn't Apocalypse World, but Dungeon World iirc, same style of system, different theme though. 18:34:00 (I'm not an expert at this) 18:34:10 ais523: one thing that could work though is potions of Remove Disease. Those exist. 18:34:45 And we've recently seen that the OotS was lucky and found two or three cheap source of potions, besides the usual random drops and shops 18:37:38 And using potions is easy in general, even without a cleric the OotS would manage. 18:39:50 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:39:51 looks like the ticket package for LaTeX will be able to do what I want. Maybe or maybe not crop marks in light gray though. It can do crop marks certainly 18:45:51 . o O ( Newton is overrated. His work on calculus was very much derivative. ) 18:54:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:09:24 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:59 -!- Remavas has joined. 19:30:53 Vorpal: I did not mention different style, different document class, I said a different output routine. 19:32:56 I did write also a program to rasterize DVI files into PBM format, which can then be converted by use of foo2zjs or whatever, into the format needed for the printer. 19:33:43 wob_jonas: What M:tG rules you try to ask about please? 19:35:10 zzo38: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/17.07.07 use of linked abilities of a permanent when that permanent has got those abilities indirectly through either a copy effect or a quicksilver effect 19:35:28 I think I asked you too a few months ago, when ais wasn't here 19:37:04 I don't know either, unfortunately. 19:37:07 I'm primarily interested in a general rule, not rulings for specific cases. 19:37:28 Or at least a general rule when quicksilver effects aren't involved. 19:51:35 I would think that it can still remember, although it is entirely unclear. 19:54:02 607.5 is phrased unclearly. It does seem to claim at least that the ability on an object can't ever be linked with an ability on another object, so you can't eg. exile cards with one permanent and use them by activating the ability on another permanent. 19:54:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:55:04 But 607.1a seems to contradicts this. I think 607.1a tries to clarify how cards like Cho-Manno's Blessing or Ward Sliver work. 19:57:08 Yes, the rules are entirely unclear. My opinion is that a precise mathematically elegant and logical framework should be described by the rules, in order to make these things clear, because as it is, some things aren't so clear. 19:57:47 zzo38: sure, but developing and maintaining such a framework might not be economically worth for anyone 19:58:45 I would be willing to help work on such thing 20:05:22 I would have think better might be made by "AST graph linking", and the way I am thinking, they would still work, although in the case of Ward Sliver it is "instantiated parameterized keyword ability", although similar things can still be done with nonkeyword abilities too if needed. 20:06:47 There is all sort of stuff like that (and stuff somewhat similar, including stuff already exist but now I made up the name for it), such as "persistent property", "mana step", "kind", "initial text", etc. 20:07:35 What will you think of it? 20:11:23 -!- augur has joined. 20:15:11 zzo38: In fact, even instants like Blessed Breath may count. There are even more of those than auras Cho-Manno's Blessing. (I have several of both of these categories in my collection. At one point I decided granting protection was cool and bought a lot of them.) 20:17:08 I did write also a program to rasterize DVI files into PBM format, which can then be converted by use of foo2zjs or whatever, into the format needed for the printer. <-- not sure why that is relevant. The output routine would be like "pdftex" or "luatex"? 20:17:32 or what do you mean by that term 20:18:08 Vorpal: An output routine is something defined in the TeX file, by using the \output command. Once a page is completed, it calls that, which then adds headers and footers, and ships it out to the DVI file. 20:21:33 Permanents that grant protection or landwalk with a choosable parameter include: Cho-Manno's Blessing, Flickering Ward (costs W), Floating Shield, Pentarch Ward, Riders of Gavony, Runed Halo (strange one), Traveler's Cloak, Ward of Light, Ward Sliver. 20:21:53 zzo38: ah 20:22:30 however the ticket LaTeX package seems to be usable for my needs. 20:22:38 so no need to reinvent the wheel 20:23:08 Yes, although you don't really need a custom output routine to get specific positions. You can just adjust various distance parameters. 20:38:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:44:04 <\oren\> rrgh 20:44:29 <\oren\> while(1){ if(n == 0) break; n--; ... } 20:45:28 maybe they just want to make sure that the loop is entered at least once 20:45:52 <\oren\> but but why 20:46:25 programming is about more than just fill in the blanks 20:46:28 <\oren\> I'm replacing it with while(n--!=0) 20:46:34 its about freedom 20:48:29 <\oren\> the freedom to write three lines instead of 1? 20:50:30 exactly! real programmers aren't satisfied with the limiting abstractions 20:54:31 [wiki] [[Brainfork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52412&oldid=23594 * Zseri * (+134) /* Examples */ 20:56:10 while (1) { if(n == 0) break; n--; ... } and while (n--!=0) { ... } aren't the same thing if 'n' is used after the loop. 21:00:30 on a serious topic, ++, --, pop, and get seem similar because they use up a value off a sequence, are there common uses for ++,-- that don't fit into this? 21:00:49 it should at leas be while(--n!=0) 21:02:24 Well, that's pretty different as well, since it won't run the body as n == 0. 21:03:11 the solution for n--!=0 would be just to increment it after the loop 21:03:55 The use of ++ in something that builds a histogram as in for (...) h[i]++; doesn't sound like "use up a value off a sequence" to me. 21:03:58 unless there is more than one exit 21:04:51 fizze: I'll ignore all the cases where ++ is only used for its side effect 21:05:57 I'm sure there's an esolang implementation somewhere using *++p = x; for something tape-related. 21:07:41 ok, that is quite different from using up a value. 21:14:19 <\oren\> ++*p++ 21:14:53 <\oren\> ^ the above is, amazingly, NOT undefined behaviour 21:15:09 it makes perfect sense to me 21:15:26 <\oren\> it incements the value p points to and then increments p 21:15:59 \oren\: how is that not undefined... Where is the sequence point? 21:15:59 How would you write a loop that loops over both indices and elements of an array? 21:16:10 can you do --*++*p++ 21:16:25 An array has one more index than it has elements. 21:16:29 doesthiswork: you may need some parentheses? 21:16:40 <\oren\> Vorpal: there is none needed, since p is only modified once 21:16:54 <\oren\> and the vlaue p points to is only modified once 21:17:03 <\oren\> so no sequnce point problem 21:17:24 \oren\: what makes it increment the pointed to value before the pointer though? 21:17:28 Would you write: for (i = 0; ; i++) { ...i...; if (i == len) break; ...a[i]...; } 21:18:05 <\oren\> Vorpal: ++x returns the incremented vlaue. x++ returns the value, then increments it 21:18:17 ah, true 21:18:34 <\oren\> or (increments it, then returns the original value) 21:18:35 does ++prefix have higher operator precedence than suffix++? 21:18:54 I thought they had the same precedence 21:19:16 <\oren\> all suffixes attach more strongly than prefixes 21:19:31 well that explains it then 21:19:58 <\oren\> `*x++' <=> `*(x++)' 21:19:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: *x++': not found 21:20:10 it is not code that I write very often, (and if I ever saw that in a code review I would not accept it) 21:20:14 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:20:44 \oren\: anyway what doesthiswork suggested, could you do this multiple layers with something like int** p; ? 21:20:49 <\oren\> just like `*x[1]' <=> `*(x[1])' 21:20:59 and would you at that point need parentheses? 21:21:03 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:21:16 <\oren\> --*++*p++ would work fine 21:21:25 Did you know this is valid C99? int foo(int x, int y[f(x)]) { ... } 21:21:52 Did you know this is valid C99? int foo(int n, int m, int a[n][m]) { ... } 21:21:56 shachaf: the function call in the [] is valid? what does it do? 21:22:01 The value of n isn't used but the value of m is. 21:22:09 I thought it had to be a immediate constant 21:22:10 Vorpal: It's evaluated when the function is called. 21:22:15 Nope, any expression. 21:22:31 shachaf: yes, C99 specifies the optional dynamic sized arrays feature. it's a controversial topic: some people love it, and some people hate it. 21:22:32 <\oren\> shachaf: oh, and then you get the result by using sizeof? neat! 21:22:41 shachaf: so... that becomes available to the sizeof operator inside the function then? 21:22:41 I personally dislike C99 dynamic sized arrays. 21:23:23 It's used for multidimensiona array indexing. 21:23:34 I don't like dynamically sized stuff on the stack, but elsewhere I don't care. 21:23:34 l 21:23:57 \oren\: is the ++*p++ thing valid C++ as well hm 21:24:03 should test that 21:24:13 I assume it would be, but you can't be sure 21:24:57 C++ really did have *some* good ideas for how to improve C. Namespaces for example. Shame it had soooo many bad ideas. 21:29:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:30:41 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 21:31:02 Also templates could have been neat, had they NOT been turing complete. I had to write specialized functions for different data types before in C, that could have been auto generated in C++ with templates. Such is the world of inner loops of embedded software 21:33:51 <\oren\> operator overloading was amistake 21:35:28 <\oren\> specifically, the way operator overloading is used in the C++ standard library is a huuge mistake 21:35:50 such strong opinions 21:36:02 <\oren\> << and >> sould never have been used for io 21:36:43 we should be able to overload // and /* 21:36:59 <\oren\> iostream is a massive, globally-reaching fuckup 21:38:26 \oren\: I think operator overloading in C++ is fine in general. There are some minor problems connected to operator overloading, some of which are minor design mistakes (some of which could be fixed even now), some are overzelous operator overloading in certain third-party libraries. 21:39:21 <\oren\> and of course, string concatenation should never have been + 21:39:41 yes it should have been * like in julia 21:40:44 One thing I particularly hate is how the C++ standard doesn't support C99 builtin complex floating point types, but only the old std::complex class template with operator overloading. 21:41:07 What's the point? All sane compilers want to support C99 builtin complex floats, so why not just allow them in C++ too? 21:41:38 <\oren\> doesthiswork: that would be ok, but you know what would be better? 21:41:59 Gcc allows them fine, but it would be nice if certain details (like which macros are still defined in C++ when you load the header) should be standardized so that this could be used portably. 21:42:01 \oren\: overloaded whitespace 21:42:18 <\oren\> int-e: exactly! 21:42:23 ah like snobol 21:42:33 doesthiswork: you can overload the combination / * 21:42:35 does that count? 21:43:30 Anyway, personally I find the << >> iostream thing rather cute. 21:44:05 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 21:44:08 I don't like how awful formatting is, even with iomanip 21:45:11 shachaf: void (*foo)(void) = ...; void (*bar)(void) = **********foo; 21:45:38 I think C++ should support arbitrary operators rather than just the built-in ones. 21:45:54 hellolum 21:46:03 I was just talking about that the other day. 21:46:07 oh? 21:46:12 In another channel. 21:46:14 curious. 21:46:29 shachaf: it sort of does, but you have to use named functions for them and use ADL. Such ops use only slightly different rules than true punctuation operators. 21:46:51 How do you mean? 21:46:54 Isn't C a wonderful language 21:47:28 I should write my C code explicitly. 21:47:34 . o O ( A great source of vulnerabilities ) 21:47:37 One problem is that there are a few named functions (but not all) where the standard library and its standard specs is badly designed, so it's sometimes unclear how the user should specialize certain functions for which C++ provides a default impl but are often specialized. 21:47:39 So call every function by writing (&f)(...) instead of f(...) 21:48:15 shachaf: should I expand on this? 21:49:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:49:17 Maybe? I don't think I follow. 21:51:23 shachaf: there are certain operations that function templates often want to call generically on multiple types. there are two kinds of these: (A) ones for which there can't really be a generic implementation and have to be defined individually for each type, and (B) one for which there is a default implementation but you want to specialize them for 21:51:23 some types. 21:52:48 (A) include for example operator+(x,y) and operator<(x,y), but also some named functions like begin(x) and size(x) and abs(x) 21:54:28 In general, these are already handled easily in C++. You just define an overload for that function in an associated namespace, and then the rules of C++ will make everything work just fine. 21:54:48 For operators, the rules are slightly different, and you can sometimes define them as member functions, but the basic idea is the same. 21:55:59 The C++ stdlib defines operator+, operator<, size(x), abs(x) for several library types, and the latter two are also defined for some builtin types (arrays), the former two are essentially defined for some builtin types by the language (technically those are not true functions, but the difference hardly matters). 21:57:32 Category (B) is trickier. Named functions in these category include swap(x,y) and max(x,y). The library defines such generic templates for these that match most types, but you also want to specialize them for some types. 21:59:12 It appears that the proper way to call such a function is something like { using std::swap; swap(x,y); } or something like that, and that it's easy to call them wrong in which case you may get the generic implementation instead of the specialized one or get an error. 21:59:36 There's also a lot of confusion about how users should properly define specializations for these outside the stdlib. 22:00:31 What the stdlib could have done is to define two functions: one that users overload, and one that they call, and the one you call does the proper magic. That way there would be less confusion. 22:02:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:02:38 (There operators under (B) like copy constructors and move constructors and copy assignment and move assignment and destructor and operator,(x,y). These don't have a generic stdlib impl, but the language often auto-generates them for your type, and in that case there's no problem because the language rules are done well.) 22:03:57 -!- atslash has joined. 22:10:36 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:14:09 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:29:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:32:15 -!- oerjan has set topic: imperial marmots | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah. 22:47:50 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:53:17 -!- boily has joined. 22:59:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:01:01 `5 w 23:01:05 1/1:subtle//The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear. \ 2600//2600 Hz is a tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. \ yeeeeesh//See yeeeesh. \ ssss//SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic. \ structsubural type//Something Bike is into. Not to be confused with suburban destruction. 23:01:32 `forget yeeeeesh 23:01:35 Forget what? 23:02:16 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 23:08:54 "forget what?" is still funny 23:09:26 <__kerbal__> A question 23:09:52 <__kerbal__> I'm thinking about converting https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit to wikitext as mentioned at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Getchl 23:10:06 <__kerbal__> Do I have to obtain the permission of the creator? 23:10:19 <__kerbal__> I want to complete the article 23:11:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:11:21 helloily. i suspect yeeeeesh filled a much needed gap. 23:11:35 `grwp yeee 23:11:36 yeeeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeesh:See yeeeeesh. \ yeeeesh:See yeeesh. 23:14:25 `` cd wisdom; /bin/ls | grep -P '^ye+sh$' 23:14:27 yeeeeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeesh \ yeeeesh \ yeeesh 23:14:48 `dowg yeeeeesh 23:14:56 11079:2017-07-10 forget yeeeeesh \ 6200:2015-11-10 le/rn yeeeeesh/See yeeeesh. 23:15:14 `dowg yeeeeeeeeesh 23:15:21 10346:2017-03-04 forget yeeeeeeeeesh \ 6228:2015-11-19 le/rn yeeeeeeeeesh/See yeeeeeeeesh. 23:15:40 hellørjan. 23:15:43 oh hm. 23:15:45 `revert 23:15:46 Done. 23:15:47 __kerbal__: hm you _might_ say the "will later be converted to wikitext" gives implicit permission... 23:15:49 whoa whoa whoa 23:15:57 why not have them in fibonacci sequence? 23:15:59 what happened to the much needed gap 23:16:10 __kerbal__: however, hppavilion[1] is right here, so just ask. 23:16:27 well, he might be a little bit idle. 23:16:38 * boily mapoles hppavilion[1] 23:16:46 shachaf: it was filled again 23:17:02 oerjan: Oh, am I the creator? 23:17:16 Oh, yeah 23:17:23 oerjan: I was confused for a moment 23:17:28 __kerbal__: Yeah, go ahead. 23:20:58 shachaf: fortunately there's still a gap left. 23:21:14 `5 w 23:21:18 1/2:wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ nit//Nits are there to be picked. \ kinder surprise//Kinder Surprise is an addictive drug marketed for children so dangerous it's banned at the federal level. \ lie bracket//Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies 23:21:28 `n 23:21:29 2/2: that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. \ tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up. 23:26:46 -!- deep-book-gk_ has joined. 23:28:54 <__kerbal__> Thanks! 23:29:05 -!- deep-book-gk_ has left. 23:30:09 `? wissub 23:30:10 wissub? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:40:11 <__kerbal__> hppavilion[1]: Do you have any documents about WalrusOS? 23:41:06 hellorcah. wissub? 23:45:53 <__kerbal__> Also, are the tape and the accumulator separate? 23:48:28 __kerbal__: I don't think I have documents about WalrusOS 23:48:59 __kerbal__: And the accumulator is distinct, yes 23:49:09 <__kerbal__> ok, I just wanted to be sure 23:50:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FIDGET CHICKEN). 23:56:19 <__kerbal__> is the tape infinite in both directions or only one? 23:57:16 <\oren\> right now I'm hoping the dev server isn't literally on fire 2017-07-11: 00:01:07 __kerbal__: Both, I believe. It was a while ago that I wrote this. I can barely understand my own prose. 00:01:11 * hppavilion[1] should learn PERL 00:04:05 <__kerbal__> Um... how does that work, exactly? Is it a quantum thing? 00:04:59 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:05:13 \oren\: but maybe if it _were_ on fire, you might finally get rid of the build system! 00:08:55 <\oren\> literally everything is broken 00:09:46 <\oren\> email, ssh, and even hipchat are all fucking dead 00:13:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:05 Sounds like a Cloud At Cost server to me. 00:15:47 <\oren\> has california just been annihilated by nuclear attack? 00:15:53 oerjan: why do you keep bugging \oren\ about the build system 00:19:30 i was just trying to raise his hopes hth 00:20:11 also, i thought you were the one previously doing that. 00:20:22 looks like it's not necessary anymore tdh 00:20:49 i accidentally saw a photograph of \oren\ the other day 00:20:59 was it shocking? 00:21:01 photographs are scow 00:21:07 it was mildly shocking 00:21:23 \oren\: i think not, unless shachaf is a ghost 00:21:29 how did that happen? 00:21:55 I was trying to remember whether it was SoundHound that he worked at. 00:22:03 oh man 00:22:07 "I have experience using both the Waterfall methodology and Agile/XP methodologies." 00:22:14 so many methodologies 00:22:59 <\oren\> yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process 00:23:16 isn't "waterfall" a straw man that people use to sell scrum 00:23:24 <\oren\> pretty much 00:23:32 yup 00:23:36 16:00 I read some passwords from https://www.isi.edu/natural-language/people/poem/poem.php and now I can't stop thinking in iambic tetrameter. 00:23:51 the hydrological cycle methodology 00:23:54 <\oren\> next time I update linkedin I shoudl delete that line 00:24:15 Are you going to keep working at this company? 00:24:35 They can't even get my humming right. 00:25:05 <\oren\> assuming working conditions remain ok, and they keep paying me, why not? 00:25:33 Well, the servers are on fire, and you hate your build system. 00:25:48 Why not work at a company that pays you twice as much? 00:25:58 . o O ( someone should invent the scram methodology ) 00:26:26 <\oren\> hey, they're back online! 00:26:35 oerjan: https://68.media.tumblr.com/74d95a31741535ce4661efb0c710d8ac/tumblr_inline_mhyiwy6aAE1qz4rgp.png 00:26:38 <\oren\> I wonder hwy everything broke suddenly 00:27:12 -!- digitalcold has joined. 00:27:21 <\oren\> shachaf: i've had offers but they all involved moving to the usa 00:27:31 <\oren\> and well... fuck that 00:27:39 Why don't you like the USA? 00:28:12 <\oren\> dangerous 00:29:01 I feel like I did the iambic tetrameter thing in here before. 00:29:04 Or at least somewhere in IRC. 00:29:31 shachaf: hm i remember that from last you told me about those, i think. (but not what they were called.) 00:30:00 http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/16.06.07 00:30:05 22:39:20 oerjan: placenta-based homology? / i owe you an apology 00:30:12 That's right. 00:30:50 shachaf: not the tetrameters, the scrams 00:30:57 <\oren\> the usa is a dangerous place, a lot of the places require owning (and learning to drive) a car, and I like my free healthcare 00:31:04 Oh. 00:31:16 oerjan: They're called knids in English, apparently. 00:31:23 I didn't read the book in English, I don't think. 00:31:47 \oren\: Well, you can move somewhere that doesn't require a car. 00:32:27 How much are you willing to pay for free healthcare? 00:34:02 <\oren\> it's... free 00:34:54 I thought you were saying you had offers to be paid twice as much to move to the USA. 00:35:56 oerjan: I think the iambic tetrameter I was thinking of may have been Kubla Khan. 00:36:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:43:22 "yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process" => wait, I thought "waterfall" was management-speak for "we don't know what the program we want to create has to do, but just create 90% of it anyway without a spec, then near the end we'll tell what it should have done and you'll just change it to do tha 00:43:22 t instead in a week." 00:45:30 <\oren\> lol 00:46:16 I admit I know little about all this methodology andpattern thing. 00:46:58 We have a software team with buzzword-oriented development though, you could ask them. 00:52:20 They're competent, mind you, but they have all these complicated procedures and meetings and task tracking docs. 00:56:46 restarting my browser when i have 3 youtube tabs open is somewhat noisy. 00:57:57 a man who seldom speaks his mind / can cause behavior undefined 00:58:01 [wiki] [[Getchl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52413&oldid=45294 * Kerbal * (+8849) Added the info from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing 00:58:35 <__kerbal__> hppavilion[1]: Here you go 00:58:45 <__kerbal__> not perfect, but a start 00:58:45 __kerbal__: Yay 01:11:52 -!- imode has joined. 01:24:23 <__kerbal__> An idea... what if the only storage in a program was the title thing that displays above a program window in Windows? Or some other bizarre component normally used for something else? 01:24:55 <__kerbal__> Would be a weird language 01:32:58 __kerbal__: Huh, perhaps. But it sounds more like a hack than an inherently-weird feature 01:33:13 <__kerbal__> True... 01:33:40 <__kerbal__> You've a point 01:42:58 <__kerbal__> I still am thinking about building a framework for executing multiple tape-based languages on the same tape. That could be a useful, very esoteric way to leverage the benefits of multiple languages. You could download and share images between programs by combining Graphical BF and Netf***, and implement threading with Weave or a similar language. 01:43:26 <__kerbal__> I know that all the languages I mentioned are BF variants, but you could use others as well, like my esolang 01:48:37 <__kerbal__> You'd have a readable, simple language (I'm calling it TapeLang right now) holding everything together. Perhaps (although this may or may not actually happen) the language would treat other programs as first-class citizens 02:01:00 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:06:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:06:43 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:09:06 -!- augur has joined. 02:13:05 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:17:01 -!- ineiros has joined. 02:19:36 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:24:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:46:52 -!- jaboja has joined. 02:49:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:51:42 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:53:12 -!- augur has joined. 03:01:02 `5 w 03:01:06 1/2:lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ mousse//A mousse is a sharp rodent. "A mousse once bit my sister." \ monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, 03:01:08 `n 03:01:09 2/2: if you find him. \ code//[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... 03:01:15 `cwlprits code 03:01:21 tsweẗt int-̈e 03:01:49 `dowg code 03:01:55 5674:2015-06-24 echo \'[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...\' > wisdom/code \ 5658: 03:02:00 `2 dowg code 03:02:07 2/2:658:2015-06-23 le/rn code/5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 03:02:32 int-e, Warrigal: what's all this then? 03:12:08 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:23:38 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 03:27:53 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:31:14 -!- ineiros has joined. 03:34:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:43:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:26:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:29:26 -!- augur has joined. 04:42:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:10:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:10:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:11:47 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:18:43 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:35:49 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:36:57 [wiki] [[XRF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52414&oldid=41670 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link 05:37:40 [wiki] [[Slim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52415&oldid=45218 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link 05:42:25 <\oren\> Hmm, I think what I need is to write a preprocessor for kerboscript programs. I will write said preprocessor itself in kerboscript. 05:47:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:09:41 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:59:22 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:03:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:25:59 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:31:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 07:43:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:55:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:58:52 `? password 07:58:53 The password of the month is out of date tdnh 08:00:30 shachaf: mine was contextual; Randomly generated error message: 13:37:54: `run echo $ 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 08:01:08 ... 15:09:28: data darn, preceding the complete path 08:01:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:03:28 `learn The password of the month is blowin' in the wind. 08:03:30 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is blowin' in the wind. 08:10:43 `dowg password 08:10:49 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595: 08:12:10 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:42:22 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:52:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:08:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:29:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 09:37:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:30:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:00 -!- augur has joined. 11:06:02 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:07:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:24:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:34:35 -!- boily has joined. 12:21:43 -!- augur has joined. 12:23:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FLAVOUR CHICKEN). 12:32:29 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:33:25 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 14:00:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:16:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:33:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:33:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:44:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:51:28 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:05:58 -!- imode has joined. 15:09:59 I'm looking for some good spam so I can pretend to be a bot on a webforum 15:10:22 does anyone know an abandoned forum that I can mine for material? 15:11:00 doesthiswork: https://esolangs.org/forum/ hth 15:11:32 perfect, thank you 15:11:34 the spam isn't very fresh though, since it's also readonly. 15:15:13 stale is fine, quantity is what I needed 15:15:15 we had a forum? wow... 15:16:19 And wow, selling box sets of DVDs. How quaint. No Game of Thrones either. 15:17:25 (what a difference 6 years can make) 15:40:01 --- part: lord_EarlGray left #esoteric <-- i guess we weren't his cup of tea. 15:43:52 There were even a few non-spam posts in the forum. 15:43:54 Not many though. 16:03:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:38:11 word-addressible or byte-addressible? 16:38:30 s/sible/sable 16:41:16 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:42:14 -!- atslash has joined. 16:43:23 -!- atslash has quit (Client Quit). 16:51:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:54:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:16:41 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:22:42 `dowg password 17:22:48 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595: 17:23:58 deja vu. 17:24:48 so it was. 17:25:03 i was surprised it had really been a month. 17:25:12 `? time flies 17:25:12 time flies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:25:19 bzzz! 17:25:26 `` grwp -i time flies 17:25:27 grep: flies: No such file or directory \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ `4:`4 is equivalent to `5 , except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5. \ `5:`5 is equivalent to repeating `` 17:25:37 `` grwp -i 'time flies' 17:25:39 No output. 17:25:59 `? arrow 17:26:00 Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. 17:26:01 . o O ( time flies are buzzing around the clock ) 17:28:53 `learn_append arrow Time flies are attracted to them. 17:28:55 Learned 'arrow': Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. Time flies are attracted to them. 17:29:01 oops 17:29:03 `revert 17:29:04 Done. 17:29:35 oh wait 17:29:38 `revert 17:29:39 Done. 17:29:52 `? hand 17:29:52 * oerjan got confused by the absence of "Relearned" 17:29:53 A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 17:31:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:36:22 that's what she says 17:40:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:51:32 -!- imode has joined. 17:56:13 <\oren\> hey. what if you have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole words 18:05:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:06 -!- augur has joined. 18:06:50 . o O ( what if I have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole cache lines, except for memory regions marked specially to indicate that they are used for memory mapped IO? ) 18:09:02 why on Earth would anyone send an email with Reply-To == To ? 18:09:23 because it's fun? 18:09:55 (It *was* an email that people might want to reply to. Maybe it's a way to fend off automatic replies like the notorious out of office emails.) 18:16:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:16:47 Just send it to Steve Morshead 18:18:32 cute 18:18:49 but apparently they closed the account 18:19:05 oh, are closing, I see 18:22:15 -!- augur has joined. 18:31:59 Actually the notice was sent in June. So it may be gone, unless the public shaming had any effect. 18:32:27 Why don't you email and ask? 18:32:35 See if you get a reply. 18:32:39 `5 w 18:32:44 1/1:brevity//syn. "shortness" \ macedonia//Macedonia is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Taiwan is. \ bird//The Bird is Cruel! \ pastry//A pastry is a sugary confectionery that is customarily eaten after writing an essay. \ bdsm//BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. 18:33:13 and I'm done talking to shachaf. 18:33:25 :-( 18:37:33 `cwlprits bird 18:37:39 shachäf Phantom_Hoovër nortẗi Phantom_Hoovër 18:37:44 `dowg bird 18:37:51 10471:2017-03-21 learn The Bird is Cruel! \ 2180:2013-02-19 learn bird bird bird bird \ 2179:2013-02-19 learn bird is a dinosaur \ 2178:2013-02-19 learn bird bird bird bird 18:37:55 `forget bird 18:37:56 Forget what? 18:38:01 `? canary 18:38:02 A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up. 18:38:04 bird! what's the matter with you? 18:38:17 `cat canary 18:38:18 cat: canary: Permission denied 18:38:41 Remember when we figured out how to delete canary? 18:38:44 It broke everything. 18:38:48 It was great. 18:38:50 I remember 18:38:58 I'm surprised this unreadable one doesn't do the same thing 18:39:03 `stat canary 18:39:03 ​ File: ‘canary’ \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 657446 Links: 1 \ Access: (0000/----------) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2017-05-15 14:57:34.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2017-04-17 19:17:05.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2017-05-15 15:23:19.0000000 18:39:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:40:57 `5 w 18:41:03 1/2:despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ cofridge logic//Cofridge logic is the new HoTT stuff. \ c++//Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. \ victoria//Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest. \ identity function//The identity function 18:41:09 `n 18:41:09 2/2:is a mockingbird. 18:41:14 `cwlprits canary 18:41:20 boil̈y oerjän FireFl̈y FireFl̈y 18:43:21 `? canary 18:43:22 A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up. 18:43:38 CAVE CHICKEN 19:11:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:20:09 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 19:45:31 . o O ( What's the current maximal size of Russell's teapot, say, at 99% confidence? ) 19:54:53 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:05:27 -!- Remavas has joined. 20:23:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:32:07 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:11:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:20:24 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:23:25 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:23:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:31:17 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:04:22 -!- betaveros has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:19:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:20:18 fizzie: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/factory.jpg ... screenshot from a video game (Broken Sword 5, an okay click & point adventure game, better than parts 3 and 4 so far) 22:25:12 Heh. Well, it's iconic. 22:25:19 I played the one set in Paris. 22:25:32 ("Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars – Director's Cut", I think.) 22:27:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:25 "the one set in Paris" is kind of cute... I think they all have a part playing in Paris. 22:37:01 Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that one anyway. 22:39:40 -!- augur has joined. 22:44:24 (the main issue with parts 3 and 4 is the awkward 3D interface... part 5 is back to 2D graphics with painted scenes, and more traditional puzzles (parts 3 and 4 feature some scenes where you need to evade guards, and some sokoban style puzzles... at the same time skimping on the more traditional interactions) 22:44:38 `? ) 22:44:43 ​)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:45:01 . o O ( `learn ) is the missing closing parenthesis, provided here for balance. ) 22:48:37 -!- boily has joined. 22:50:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:00:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:06:20 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 23:08:59 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:09:30 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:10:31 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 23:12:15 `5 w 23:12:20 1/2:wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ hðh//hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photogra 23:13:01 `n 23:13:02 2/2:phs and drawings. \ html//HTML is short for "hope this mess loads". \ 21//21 is both half the answer and a cardgame. The latter is similiar to Bladder-Burst?. 23:13:35 I'm often confused when I read about food on the internet. I don't know enough about food in general, and also it comes with a lot of specialized vocabulary separately in English and Hungarian where I don't know translations nor meanings of lots of words in either language. 23:13:52 So I started to make some notes: first about the type of cereals at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Types_of_cereal 23:13:57 Next I should do the types of nuts/. 23:18:13 wellob_jonas! 23:19:04 helloily (oily like nuts.) 23:19:40 cooking is best done by ear; it has to sound right when doing it. 23:20:24 and imperial units all the way. none of that gram and decilitre shenanigans. 23:20:48 what? no way 23:20:56 metric is useful for cooking 23:21:13 imperial is for fantasy stuff like dungeon corridor widths and minifig sizes 23:21:35 and weights of items in your inventory 23:22:13 you measure foodstuff in metric, which is convenient because most of them are typically packaged in round amounts of metric units (kilograms or liters) 23:22:51 (some actually must be packaged in round amounts by law, some are just packaged that way by custom) 23:23:32 tablespoons, cups, pounds and fahrenheit! 23:24:48 you could perhaps make an argument for teaspoons and tablespoons of spice or salt, yeah, the previous argument doesn't apply to them because you use only small amount at a time 23:24:58 but why cups and pounds? 23:25:33 cups are tremendously useful. quarter, third, half and one cup. it's the same measure for all your ingredients. 23:26:26 pounds are just... anthropocentric? eg. ¼ lb for a meat patty. it's a nice number, easy to remember. 23:27:39 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 23:29:07 -!- yabuti has joined. 23:29:07 -!- yabuti has quit (Excess Flood). 23:29:32 dunno, I don't think it helps more than kilograms 23:30:47 -!- yabuti has joined. 23:30:47 -!- yabuti has quit (Excess Flood). 23:35:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:36:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:36:31 and of course the decimal system helps me make mental calculations, as opposed to the strange conversion ratios like {mile, yard, food, inch, 1/16 inch, 1/1000 inch}, {pound, ounce, grains}, {gallon, pint, fl ounce}, and the confusing multiple similarly named units (there are like four kinds of ounces still commonly in use) 23:37:43 Obviously it used to be even worse in the past, when they had a different measurement system in every region, but you can't blame people for that back when travel was difficult and technology less advanced. 23:38:09 yob_jonas 23:38:20 I think many units people use are backwards. 23:38:33 For example, speed should be measured in time/distance instead of distance/time 23:38:47 Bandwidth should be measured in time/bytes rather than bytes/time 23:40:08 It's not obvious which kind of "league" Jules Verne uses as measurement units in multiple of his books. Journey to the center of earth seems to use the 3898 meter long French league. 23:42:43 shachaf: bandwidth in information per time is reasonable imo because it's additive that way. the problem with bandwidth units is that people use too many units for information including bits, bytes, 512 byte blocks/sectors, kilobits, kilobytes, kibibits, kibibytes, megabits, megabytes, mebibytes, gigabits, gigabytes, gibibytes, terabytes. 23:43:01 And sometimes it's not clear whether someone means bits or bytes, and whether they mean decimal or binary. 23:43:22 If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X 23:43:45 You pay litres of petrol to get kilometres of distance, so you should use the unit litres/kilometre 23:44:19 It would make the abbreviations more clear if people started using octets instead of bytes even in English. 23:45:08 shachaf: as for fuel usage, that varies by country, some countries like Hungary use liters per hundred kilometer, some use kilometers per ten liter or something like that (I'm not sure about the exponent of 10 there), some use miles per gallons. 23:45:44 Never mind the constant factor. I meant l/100km 23:45:48 For prices, I've never seen the price in the divisor used for anything. 23:46:07 I considered saying "octet" above, but I said "byte" so that I'm ambiguous about the constant factor. 23:46:42 Hmm, interesting. 23:47:00 gallons per dollar? 23:47:10 No, you should use dollars per gallon. 23:47:17 sh: I'm fine with 8-bit only bytes, the problem is when on commercial labels "B" can stand for bits or bytes and you can't tell which. Some packagings even write "KG" for kilogram, which is terrible. 23:47:30 shachaf: Because you pay gallons to get dollars? 23:47:41 No, you pay dollars to get gallons. 23:47:47 So you should use $/gal 23:48:01 That's exactly opposite to the rule you said. 23:48:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:48:14 "If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X." 23:48:18 So it is. 23:48:31 And I spent such a long time thinking about it, too. Uselessly. 23:48:33 how much is a gallon anyway? /me looks it up 23:48:36 Let's see. 23:48:44 UK and US gallons are different, I think? 23:48:56 (Which makes "mpg" even worse.) 23:49:11 fizzie: yes, it's one of those multiple versions of units tied to "ounces" 23:49:21 wob_jonas: The convenient thing is that l/gal and NIS/USD are pretty close. 23:49:34 So you can compare .il and .us petrol prices directly, depending on the exchange rate. 23:49:38 huh? what's a NIS? 23:49:43 Israeli currency. 23:49:46 oh, Israeli shekel, right 23:49:54 OK, let's see. 23:50:19 I was trying to read up on this when renting a car and trying to guesstimate how often I'd need to fill it up. People just post unqualified "mpg" numbers. 23:50:29 gal/mile means you pay gallons to get miles 23:50:39 So if you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit X/Y 23:50:48 Which is waht I originally wanted to write. 23:50:52 oh N is for new 23:50:59 (is it still new?) 23:51:13 Apparently I should say ILS instead of NIS 23:51:24 I never remember which one to use. 23:51:34 "also known as simply the Israeli shekel and formerly known as the New Israeli Sheqel (NIS)," 23:51:44 I guess it's not new anymore. 23:51:53 It's been in use since before I was born. 23:53:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:53:33 Anyway. 23:53:46 You use $/gal because you pay $ to get gal 23:54:02 You use gal/mile because you pay gal to get mile 23:54:14 You can even multiply them together to figure out $/mile 23:54:22 shachaf: ILS is the ISO style international abbrev, similar to USD, CAD, GBP, EUR, HUF, etc. NIS is conventional domestic abbrev, similar to US$, CA$, £, €, Ft, which you use locally. 23:54:48 Is it? 23:55:25 when commerce gets international and people ordering stuff on Ebay in various foreign currencies, it's better to use the former 23:56:39 shachaf: the trick is that the three-letter currency codes usually start with the two-letter ISO country code (except EUR), which in turn usually agrees with top-level domain names (except .uk) 23:57:01 Why do you say NIS is conventional domestic abbrev? 23:57:21 they should have used DEE for the euro 23:59:02 It was only in the past couple of years that I realized why the symbol ₪ is used for NIS. 23:59:14 why is it used? 23:59:36 `unidecode ₪ 23:59:37 ​[U+20AA NEW SHEQEL SIGN] 23:59:45 It looks like the acronym ש"ח 2017-07-12: 00:00:10 In particular the ח put inside the ש 00:01:31 is that symbol printed on shekel banknotes? 00:02:41 I'm not sure. 00:02:50 I don't understand why there are custom symbols for so many currencies by the way. Why not use just some letter combo abbreviation like for other things? 00:03:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:08:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:08:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:09:39 Though I guess a few other measurement units use custom symbols too: the degree symbol is used for various units called degrees, and the prime and double prime are used for various stuff, and I think there was one or two more obscure symbols too. 00:10:32 ℥ is a nice symbol. 00:10:47 boily: oh right, I forgot that one because I don't see it getting used 00:11:06 `icode ℥ 00:11:07 ​[U+2125 OUNCE SIGN] 00:11:26 <\oren\> Hmm, I no longer consider it a coincidence. I am better at programming when I reduce my font size 00:11:38 he\\oren\. eh? 00:11:54 also, some people write ℓ instead of l for a liter (and some write L) 00:12:22 \oren\: with your good font, right? 00:12:30 wob_jonas: When I measure speeds, should I use Hz? 00:12:36 <\oren\> wob_jonas: yeah and this high dpi mintor 00:12:40 <\oren\> monitor 00:13:04 handwritten ℓ is useful to distinguish the unit from 1, l and other hambiguitous things. 00:13:04 2 MBHz 00:13:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:13:29 2 mega Bel per second? 00:13:53 Logarithmic units are TG 00:14:00 <\oren\> I was struggling to translate this perl script into C++. I reduced font size to get more of the code on my screen and suddenly I fixed all the segafults in half an hour and it now works. 00:14:05 shachaf: for speeds, use m/s, except when it's speed limit for motor vehicles, in which case use whichever one of km/h or mi/h is generally used for labels of the speedometer of the car 00:14:10 mHz 00:14:24 Measure acceleration in mHz/s 00:14:40 \oren\: nice 00:14:54 I don't like too small fonts, but that's partly because I'm myopic and don't have a perfect vision 00:15:50 well, I do have a perfect vision with glasses by the technical definition, as proven repeatedly in the optometrist examinations, but a worse vision still than some other programmers 00:16:30 <\oren\> I have bad vision at distances but up close I can handle very small font sizes 00:17:16 The other part I don't get is how some people can work with the sun glaring directly into the monitor, or with the sun shining in brightly through a window from right ahead of you from the same direction as the monitor, or in a very dark room with a bright monitor. 00:17:22 But I've seen people do each of those. 00:17:46 <\oren\> I much prefer a bright, bright monitor and no light apart from it 00:17:57 \oren\: yes, since I'm myopic, I also have a worse vision in a distance (unless I wear contacts, which I don't do these days) 00:18:17 20/20 vision, 20/10 with rice. 00:18:32 I prefer a rather dark monitor. I somewhat vary the darkness depending on whether it's the day or night, but it's dark in either case. 00:21:23 Ideally the daylight should come from the side and the window somewhat shaded so the light is scattered rather than glaring from one direction, but this is often not practical. 00:21:57 And of course neither the lighting nor the monitor should flicker, because that's really annoying. 00:22:07 \oren\: Did you fix your build system yet? 00:23:13 The monitor part has gotten easier these days: instead of old small CRTs, we got better CRTs then later TFT monitors; the lighting gets worse though, with all the fancy fluorescent lighting and leds instead of proper conventional and halogen bulbs. 00:24:17 <\oren\> shachaf: no, but luckily the build system wasn't involved here 00:24:45 <\oren\> it's just a perl script, and i translated it into a C++ program with just the standard liberry 00:24:51 Also bigger TFT monitors, which is nice. 00:28:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:28:41 \oren\: Hopefully your build system is involved with both Perl and C++ code? 00:30:22 <\oren\> no, this tool doesn't get used in the build system, neither does the build use it 00:30:49 <\oren\> it's totally separate, and is instead part of a system that will get built with bjam 00:30:51 OK, but you still build it. 00:31:12 oh no, is this boost 00:31:13 <\oren\> yeah I build it by saying g++ main.cpp 00:31:27 <\oren\> that's all 00:31:52 <\oren\> bjam will probably just do that 00:32:29 scrap it 00:32:40 <\oren\> hwats wrong with bjam 00:32:50 <\oren\> it's better than our inhouse thing 00:32:58 everything is bad 00:33:07 why don't you invent a new system which is good instead of bad 00:33:33 <\oren\> lol who has time to do that 00:33:40 shachaf: I think making a good build system is a REALLY hard problem 00:33:59 like, harder than making good versions of other programming support tools 00:35:08 Right, but \oren\ is "an excellent software developer", so he's well-suited for the task. 00:36:44 <\oren\> rather than mocking me for putting that, you hould go and put "an amazing software developer" on your linked in 00:36:59 I'm not mocking you. 00:37:37 It's gentle prodding at best. 00:37:41 Is that the right word? 00:37:46 <\oren\> yeah 00:37:53 Why should I do that? 00:38:02 Maybe I should delete my LinkedIn account instead 00:38:05 <\oren\> so people know haw awesome you are 00:38:26 What should I do with my life? 00:38:31 <\oren\> and great at writing progams 00:40:46 Am I? 00:40:59 I mean... I've shavented some pretty good HackEgo programs. 00:42:57 I guess I've shavented some other good software. 00:44:29 <\oren\> see? 元気を出して! 00:45:32 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:45:37 When are you moving to America? 00:46:07 So, is ZFC arithmetically sound? 00:46:21 I looked at healthcare costs for me. It looks like, with the ACA, I can put an upper bound at, say, $10k/year 00:46:33 Including insurance premia and other costs. 00:46:45 I figure the arithmetic soundness of ZFC is about on par with Goldbach's conjecture, as far as certainty goes. 00:50:40 @metar ENVA 00:50:40 ENVA 112320Z 32004KT 9999 FEW017 BKN053 12/10 Q1003 RMK WIND 670FT 33006KT 00:50:53 @metar KOAK 00:50:53 KOAK 112253Z 29012KT 10SM CLR 22/12 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP128 T02220117 $ 00:52:07 which part says that it's pouring down 00:52:47 it's not hth 00:52:50 @metar KSJC 00:52:50 KSJC 112253Z 31012KT 10SM CLR 28/13 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP116 T02830133 00:52:54 shavented? 00:52:56 @metar CYUL 00:52:57 CYUL 112300Z 22012KT 15SM FEW035 BKN130 BKN240 24/18 A2984 RMK CU1AC5CI2 CU TR SLP108 DENSITY ALT 1300FT 00:52:58 @metar EGLL 00:52:58 EGLL 112320Z VRB03KT 8000 -RA BKN004 15/15 Q1005 TEMPO RA 00:53:11 -RA TEMPO RA, I guess that's pretty close. 00:53:14 fizziello. 15/15. bletch. 00:53:35 I'm very happy about it, it's been like >27 inside for a week now. 00:53:43 Now it's at least down to 25. 00:54:33 In other news, I'm getting ticked off by this: http://sprunge.us/MNiZ 00:55:05 <\oren\> what about it? 00:55:11 The order? 00:55:19 The fact that there's so many of them. 00:55:24 Chromium downloads a new copy every time I start it. 00:55:32 https://www.nikhef.nl/~jo/quantum/qm/thermo/ just has one of them. 00:55:32 hth 00:55:33 <\oren\> ugh 00:55:40 shachaf: i meant here in ENVAland hth 00:55:44 I've tried to quit by closing each tab one by one, but it didn't help. 00:55:46 fizzie: You should set it to ask before saving. 00:56:06 I guess I should try disabling the saving thing. 00:57:09 `# boily: //`? shaventions 00:57:10 Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet. 00:58:22 Maybe we should ban `edit 00:58:41 then we'd have to ban `fetch too 00:58:48 `? tanebventions 00:58:49 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, mushrooms, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex. 00:59:08 `? cognac 00:59:08 cognac? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:59:16 oh man 00:59:19 i'm going to get it 00:59:30 `` dowg | grep cognac 00:59:36 10525:2017-03-27 slwd tanebvention//s/, pr/, cognac, pr/ 00:59:46 <\oren\> cog nac 01:00:01 false cognac 01:00:47 `learn Cognac is named for its strong cognitive effects. Taneb invented it, then somehow managed to keep it off the illegal drugs list. 01:00:49 Learned 'cognac': Cognac is named for its strong cognitive effects. Taneb invented it, then somehow managed to keep it off the illegal drugs list. 01:01:20 Does Taneb invent things involving drugs and crime? 01:02:07 well he invented mushrooms... 01:02:25 `? mushrooms 01:02:26 mushrooms? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:02:31 Hmm. 01:03:02 `? this sentence 01:03:03 This sentence is just. Taneb invented it. 01:03:17 `? the bbc 01:03:18 the bbc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:03:20 `? bbc 01:03:21 The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it. 01:03:40 `? tanebventions: math 01:03:41 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms. 01:03:46 Taneb: please invent some more maths twh 01:03:53 `? algebraic geometry 01:03:54 Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it. 01:04:08 `? necessity 01:04:09 If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it. 01:04:12 `? invention 01:04:13 invention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:04:46 `learn Invention is the daughter of necessity. 01:04:48 Learned 'invention': Invention is the daughter of necessity. 01:05:35 `? god 01:05:36 god? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:05:46 `gowd god 01:05:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gowd: not found 01:05:55 `dowg god 01:06:02 10533:2017-03-27 forget god \ 10532:2017-03-27 slwd god//s,$,., \ 7437:2016-04-17 learn GOD is GOD over djinn 01:06:11 thought so. 01:07:31 You can undo 10533 if you want to. 01:08:45 `? munch 01:08:46 munch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:10:40 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:24:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:42:51 -!- augur has joined. 01:54:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMMUNITY CHICKEN). 02:16:20 -!- Lord_of_- has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 02:16:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 02:16:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 02:16:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 02:16:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 02:21:50 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 02:38:37 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:50:11 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Bowsertest. 02:50:14 -!- Bowsertest has changed nick to Bowserinator. 02:51:58 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Bowsertest. 02:51:58 -!- Bowsertest has changed nick to Bowserinator. 03:03:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:12:24 -!- augur has joined. 04:14:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:16:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:16:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:18:20 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:19:46 -!- augur has joined. 04:39:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:54:00 -!- Alfie275 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:53:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:08:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:08:59 -!- augur has joined. 06:19:19 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:28:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 06:54:38 -!- Vorpal has joined. 06:54:38 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 06:54:38 -!- Vorpal has joined. 06:56:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:59:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:03:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:08:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:29:43 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:51:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:07:04 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 08:07:14 -!- sdhand has joined. 08:07:38 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest26144. 08:08:46 -!- Guest26144 has quit (Changing host). 08:08:46 -!- Guest26144 has joined. 08:08:46 -!- Guest26144 has changed nick to sdhand. 08:14:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:21:17 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:25:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:37:24 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:07:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:21 -!- ybden has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:16:45 -!- ybden has joined. 09:26:02 -!- augur has joined. 09:32:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:35:13 -!- augur has joined. 10:01:46 -!- erkin has joined. 10:06:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:13 -!- augur has joined. 10:27:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:37:05 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:39:11 -!- MDude has joined. 11:15:18 -!- Remavas has joined. 11:35:37 -!- boily has joined. 11:43:28 * boily sneakily mapolese hppavilion[1] 11:54:30 boily: I felt that. 11:54:45 but did you see who did it? 12:08:09 I fell that 12:17:43 -!- tromp has quit. 12:24:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: APACHE CHICKEN). 12:30:02 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 12:41:10 -!- tromp has joined. 13:09:46 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 13:09:55 -!- sdhand has joined. 13:10:13 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 13:10:13 -!- sdhand has joined. 13:12:37 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 13:12:46 -!- sdhand has joined. 13:13:09 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest97101. 13:40:29 -!- Cale_ has joined. 13:40:43 -!- Cale has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:40:47 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale. 13:41:22 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:41:23 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:41:23 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:41:44 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 13:47:35 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:47:41 -!- Guest97101 has quit (Changing host). 13:47:41 -!- Guest97101 has joined. 13:47:41 -!- Guest97101 has changed nick to sdhand. 14:00:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:11:34 -!- clog has joined. 14:41:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:07:33 -!- augur has joined. 15:11:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:51:07 just read this AlongPSEUDOrandomSENTENCEisAmoreSECUREkeyTHANrandomSHORTascii 15:51:35 someone was trying to explain the need for better passwords 15:51:56 what's the actual entropy of that? 15:52:55 english words in a sentence that makes sense, with an easy to remember pattern to capitalize some letters 15:55:00 probably better than a short password given the number of words, even if they're correlated 15:55:33 I seem to recall Shannon's classic number is something like 11 bits/word. 16:04:22 that google thing is scary good at predicting words 16:09:58 izabera: somewhat relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/936/ 16:10:50 Of course, the entropy of subsequent words in a grammatically correct or semantically meaningful sentence is significantly lower 16:11:40 http://i.imgur.com/cnbe0KQ.png 16:17:05 izabera: of course, those particular 4 words are famous now 16:25:07 -!- erkin has joined. 17:08:43 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: ybden). 17:09:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:09:51 -!- ybden has joined. 17:10:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:24:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:34:05 -!- augur has joined. 18:52:57 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:54:59 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:56:05 -!- TieSoul has quit (Client Quit). 18:58:19 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:17:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:24:35 `? method 19:24:36 A method is a tweaked out mothod. 19:26:50 `? mothod 19:26:51 mothod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:26:59 `? mother 19:27:00 A mother is a person who practices mothology. 19:27:04 `? mothoid 19:27:05 mothoid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:27:09 `? mothology 19:27:10 Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths. 19:27:13 `? moth 19:27:14 Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs. 19:27:45 why is this channel obsessed with moths twh 19:28:07 `? marmot 19:28:08 marmot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:28:10 `? marmoth 19:28:10 marmoth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:28:13 `? mammoth 19:28:14 mammoth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:28:34 😎 19:30:31 A mammoth is a moth which is also a mother. 19:32:08 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:33:39 heh 19:34:31 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:38:31 FireFly: you're a sort of moth, aren't you 19:39:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:40:50 -!- erkin has joined. 19:49:33 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 19:59:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:37 I leave the moth-ing to lynn 20:06:12 is lynn still in here 20:06:18 * lynn flutters 20:06:33 hi lynn 20:06:42 hi shachaf! 20:06:49 Watch out for oerjan's swatter. 20:07:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:08:38 Good tip, I've had bad experiences with that swatter 20:15:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:07:13 Why am I here? 21:07:41 What is this place o-o 21:08:28 oerjan asks himself the same question every day. 21:30:10 what question though? 22:13:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:34:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:57:27 olsner: that one. 22:57:41 Cale: Do you like this? 22:57:56 `? Cale 22:57:56 Cale? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:58:05 how come you don't have a wisdom entry tdnh 22:58:27 `? cale 22:58:28 cale? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:59:00 What do I do if my wisdom is continually being consumed by the void? hm 23:00:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:01:31 `? Do you like this? 23:01:32 Do you like this?? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:04:03 -!- heroux has joined. 23:15:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:21:18 `? dylt 23:21:19 dylt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:21:51 idnltsia 23:21:55 idnlgeah 23:28:22 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:28:48 `? fold 23:28:49 fold? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:28:49 `? foldl 23:28:50 foldl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:28:51 `? foldr 23:28:52 foldr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:29:50 -!- heroux has joined. 23:32:07 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 23:32:36 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:32:52 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 23:34:06 -!- ybden has joined. 2017-07-13: 00:11:11 -!- augur has joined. 00:22:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:23:57 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:33:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:00 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas-AFK. 01:01:41 -!- augur has joined. 01:13:37 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:20:29 `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:20:30 A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 01:20:51 `dowg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:20:59 5308:2015-04-11 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} 01:21:01 `howg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:21:07 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} 01:21:09 who uses howg? 01:21:13 we should scrap it 01:21:33 `howg zygohistomorphic 01:21:42 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} \ learn A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 01:21:42 it's mine, isn't it? 01:21:48 no 01:21:56 wow 01:37:12 Why would you howg instead of dowg? 01:57:18 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 01:59:32 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:00:06 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:17:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:36:34 I just learnt there is a irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#proglangdesign  channel 03:11:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Julfers * New user account 03:25:35 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52416&oldid=52402 * Julfers * (+148) 03:26:36 [wiki] [[User:Julfers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52417 * Julfers * (+31) Created page with "Josiah (Joe) Ulfers, programmer" 04:13:43 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DatBoi11841 * New user account 05:27:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:02:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:32:07 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:33:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:47:06 -!- tromp has joined. 07:05:04 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:07:20 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:23:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:46:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:52:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:53:06 -!- mroman has joined. 08:53:17 does visual basic have context-sensitive grammar? 08:53:31 as foo(bar) could either be a function call or an array access depending on what type foo is 08:54:23 Isn't the grammar for those the same though, just different semantics 08:55:15 Like I'd expect in both cases foo and bar are expressions, as is the result foo(bar) 08:55:38 so as far as parsing is concerned, it's one thing 08:57:00 Do you like the Mill? 08:57:39 but foo(bar, baz) would be illegal if foo is an array type 08:58:05 parsing might be the same though 08:58:14 but it's a semantic error 09:03:03 hm. yeah. 09:03:09 parsing rules are probably the same for both. 09:16:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:25:00 fungot you lil raskell 09:25:01 mroman: v. capacity calculated according to length :) skull, proportions :), in india, as i learn from admiral sir james sulivan) to be low, and would, i suspect that/ following circumstances. a minute crustaceous animal " cancer salinus) is said to be; and about mimosa sensitiva./ fnord is lost. very soon afterwards it decays. in/ preservation :) profitable modifications, each better and better, for educational purposes, than 09:30:05 ^style 09:30:05 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 09:30:14 ah 09:33:24 ^style europarl 09:33:24 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 09:33:36 fungot: Any opinions on G20? 09:33:37 mroman: mr president, a few days ago. mr davies has already said on a number of positive and negative. negative, firstly, countries should honour their pledges, namely make 0.7% of their gross national income. 09:33:58 fungot: And how does this relate to the violence? 09:33:59 mroman: mr president, before i give my explanation of vote against related to the system. then there was a great scandal in italy because a leak from the ministry for the fnord. finally, mr president, i received a specific question to the council and the president of finland, and i quote: ' whereby progressively only less favoured regions, one-fourth of community sheep production is undertaken in other areas loses its meaning. 09:34:55 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:35:49 ^style fisher 09:35:50 Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) 09:36:02 fungot: Who invented the telephone? 09:36:02 mroman: you know what a good network you know 09:36:11 fungot: I like good networks. 09:36:32 hm. 09:36:37 @messages 09:36:38 You don't have any messages 09:39:05 fungot: WHY DO YOU NEVER SEND ME ANY TEXTS?? 09:39:18 I SWIPED RIGHT ON YOU YOU KNOW. 11:20:24 [wiki] [[Ans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52418&oldid=32456 * Zseri * (+12) /* Interpreter */ dead link 11:33:17 -!- boily has joined. 12:23:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NEUTRAL CHICKEN). 13:47:13 -!- Remavas-AFK has changed nick to Remavas. 13:47:58 -!- deep-book-gk_ has joined. 13:49:41 -!- deep-book-gk_ has left. 14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:12:44 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:27:53 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:33:44 -!- Cale has joined. 14:36:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:48:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:50:42 [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52419&oldid=51774 * Jafetish * (+280) 15:02:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:11:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:26:49 spämmi! 15:26:56 i think it's been a while since the last one. 15:27:12 (in finnish, that is.) 15:30:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:54:09 oerjan asks himself the same question every day. <-- . o O ( shachaf knows too much... ) 16:28:32 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:46:40 what am I doing here? 16:51:59 oerjan: do you know what action one takes in order to know too much hth 16:54:55 one asks too many questions. 16:58:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:05:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:07:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:12:15 oerjan: yes, that's what i was getting at 17:12:20 Maybe what you were getting at too. 17:24:18 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:42 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:25:47 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:26:14 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:28:17 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:28:42 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:31:47 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:32:13 -!- Remavas has joined. 18:01:41 @tell oerjan At least it wasn't mämmi. 18:01:41 Consider it noted. 18:23:19 -!- erkin has joined. 18:34:36 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 19:00:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:21:16 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:23:13 -!- MDude has joined. 19:25:39 (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, because I just got a rare Finnish s[pc]am as well, and it was.) 19:25:55 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/eCiFO7qV54E 20:05:47 `olist 1082 20:05:48 olist 1082: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 20:24:41 fizzie: I only ever get spam about rayban sunglasses for incredibly low prices. 20:25:03 Or at least that is the only thing getting through to the gmail spam folder even 20:25:21 Are you vorpal@gmail.com? 20:25:59 nope 20:27:37 And I have not gotten any spam to my own email server. So I haven't even set up spam filtering there yet. Just some basic SPF verification thing 20:29:11 fizzie: I believe you run your own mail server, for the future and the inevitable day I get spam, what do you recommend for anti-spam? 20:30:40 I used to be involved in running mail servers. 20:30:52 Sort of. 20:31:07 shachaf: okay, any suggestions for that future? 20:31:17 I only know that SpamAssassin is a thing 20:31:36 We were using custom software. 20:31:51 ouch 20:32:22 Last SpamAssassin release was over 2 years ago hm 20:50:58 Vorpal: For spam, I use a postfwd configuration that checks two DNS blacklists (zen.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net). It's very rudimentary, but has been enough so far. 20:51:08 ah 20:51:09 There's a fair number of spam that goes through, but it's not been unmanageable. 20:51:57 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 20:52:53 I thought about doing greylisting, for whatever reason I hear that still is pretty effective. 20:54:41 fizzie: how does that work? 20:55:24 The tl;dr is that for any unknown sending mail server, your mail server returns a "temporarily unavailable, please retry" error code. 20:55:45 Apparently most of the botnets that spew out spam still don't do retries, while almost all real mail servers do. 20:56:20 It does add a little delay (from some minutes to hours, depending on sending mx behavior) to first new email from an unknown system. 20:56:47 Probably makes more sense for a system that receives an appreciable volume of email. 20:57:05 My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that. 20:57:23 ah 20:58:09 ah 20:58:12 oops 20:58:34 And the school where my father teaches does otherwise, because they greylist the periodic newsletters I send to family members. 20:59:43 So it's also kind of inherently biased against anyone using a "non-standard" email solution, since those will likely be classified as unknown. (The greylisting implementations expire the "known" status after some days/weeks.) 21:00:41 Yeah, it's happened to the most recent one I sent again. 21:00:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:01:48 "status=deferred (host [REDACTED] said: 451 4.7.1 <[REDACTED]>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisting in effect, please come back later (in reply to RCPT TO command))" 21:02:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:13:30 [wiki] [[Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52420&oldid=52293 * Manushand * (-4) /* Factorial */ 21:18:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:23 fizzie: looking at the logs I do get some connects from such hosts, but it seems they just disconnect without doing anything. Manually resolved a couple 21:29:11 fizzie: might be the SPF checking does it as well 21:29:59 There's a lot more connects in my Postfix logs than actual clients, I've never really bothered to investigate why they disconnect. 21:30:40 Some of them might be bruteforcing passwords, there's one case here with about 2k connect attempts over two hours or so. 21:31:33 hm maybe set up fail2ban on that? 21:31:48 Kind of tricky to find the right criteria for that I guess 21:32:07 I don't see anything about failed passwords in the postfix log at least 21:32:51 Guess they might be doing something else too. Like trying to spam without any "stop if failing" thing. 21:33:03 I use SASL, how does that work exactly? 21:33:13 smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot 21:33:13 smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth 21:33:32 Do postfix forward to it? Or do you login to dovecot first and that makes it work? 21:34:10 Postfix connects to that Dovecot socket to authenticate based on what comes in the SMTP connection, I believe. 21:34:14 (I have the same setup.) 21:34:19 Ah 21:35:44 was a while since I set it up, kind of confused now. What is an LMTP service and why do I use it? 21:36:26 LMTP is like SMTP except for local delivery, I think it's the recommended way to setup mail delivery into Dovecot. 21:36:59 Probably why I use it then 21:37:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:37:10 IIRC, the protocol's pretty much identical to SMTP, except maybe some minor variations and the fact that it normally runs over a Unix domain socket. 21:37:54 fizzie: hm that forwarding service you use, how does that work when forwarding mails from servers with SPF set up to a server that checks SPF? 21:38:06 s/use/run/ 21:42:10 They're opposed to SPF on ideological and practical grounds. And of course you can self decide where you forward to, and pick a friendly enough destination. I don't remember if they did anything else specifically. 21:42:51 fizzie: they? I got the impression you ran it. 21:43:07 No no, it's an organization. 21:43:20 "The Internet Users Forever IKI is a non-profit society which provides its members, private individuals in Finland, permanent iki.fi-addresses with e-mail and WWW forwarding." 21:43:51 okay, but you are involved in running it somehow or not? 21:44:19 I've been to their meetings back when I still lived in Finland (free cake), so I guess in a super-technical sense yes. But not in any practical way. 21:44:37 ah okay 21:45:01 My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that. <-- I misinterpreted the "my" there 21:45:16 Yeah, it was a little ambiguous. "My" as in "the one I use". 21:46:12 I don't think that many places are yet using SPF as a hard blocklist even with a -all policy on the source, it's just an extra signal to their filtering systems. I remember the IKI people's discussion places having some chatter about that and Gmail, but there's definitely people forwarding their iki.fi addresses to Gmail with success. 21:46:55 `? fizzie 21:46:56 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg 21:47:20 i'm voting fizzie for king in the next election 21:47:50 I guess unnamed former Gmail SREs might have better ideas about how it relates to SPF, but that's SO CONFIDENTIAL. 21:48:54 I did set up DKIM on my private mail server, in the hopes of it maybe giving a tiny positive nudge in spam scores of outgoing emails. 21:48:56 For what it's worth Delivery is a somewhat separate group from the rest of Gmail. 21:50:17 (One of my wife's relatives uses Hotmail/Outlook, and some of our messages went to their spam folder.) 21:53:03 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:55:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:57:15 -!- erkin has joined. 22:26:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:41:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:55:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:55:12 another olist? 22:58:21 Yes, but this olist was already announced. 22:58:25 We need an olistlist. 22:58:52 I know, I noticed it in the logs 22:58:57 that's why I didn't `olist it again 22:59:06 I'm just surprised because it's fast now 23:01:58 Well, he published his PDF thing. 23:02:03 So it's back to full-time olisting. 23:19:06 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:32:45 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 23:33:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:36:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:37:38 Maybe what you were getting at too. <-- THAUSIBLE 23:37:57 @messages-flood 23:37:57 fizzie said 5h 36m 15s ago: At least it wasn't mämmi. 23:46:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2017-07-14: 00:12:40 (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, [...] <-- sorry, didn't pay that much attention before deleting. 00:15:31 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:15:56 <\oren\> is there a name for that trick where traverse a linked list and keep track of where you are by each time you move to a child you make it point back to its parent so you can go back 00:16:36 <\oren\> if there is a name for that trick I shoudl use it for this commit messge 00:16:49 Zipper? 00:17:10 Sort of. 00:18:50 <\oren\> "made this not stack over flow by using a zipper technique instead of just recursing" 00:19:04 <\oren\> meh 00:22:18 \oren\: i think the "Sort of" is pretty big there. 00:22:43 <\oren\> bah noone reads my code anyway 00:22:55 \oren\: What does the program do? 00:23:04 You should post the code. 00:23:11 istr this being used for gc way before zippers were invented. 00:23:19 This isn't really zipper anyway. 00:23:22 But it's related? 00:23:41 just use an xor doubly linked list hth 00:23:42 <\oren\> reads some crap in, parses it into a tree but the tree is too big to traverse 00:24:06 <\oren\> so we need to use this stupid zippery technique to avoid stack overflows 00:24:18 <\oren\> and then outputs some other crap 00:24:47 imo post a simplified version twh 00:25:47 \oren\: I've heard of that trick, and I don't know how generally it can be done. I wonder if it could be used for a garbage collector following conses with arbitrary cyclical links, possibly combined with an xor trick. 00:25:54 I don't know if it had a name. 00:26:47 wob_jonas: that garbage collector use is where i've seen it. 00:27:45 you probably have to look in Knuth chapters 2 and 6 to see if it has a name 00:27:58 I went to talk by Knuth once that talked about something similar to a zipper. 00:28:09 <\oren\> ok hold on 00:28:15 I liked the way he had of drawing/thinking about it. 00:28:55 I'm a big fan of Knuth's books. They're so awesome. 00:29:23 It was this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW3vgJYYIok 00:29:33 I haven't read his books. 00:30:44 <\oren\> https://pastebin.com/sJEGNtjQ 00:32:33 <\oren\> now imagine that do_leaf is also doing the same thing 00:32:46 <\oren\> ...yeah... 00:35:10 <\oren\> it doesn't eliminate recursions, it just reduces the amount of recursion to manageable level 00:37:01 <\oren\> anyway, I'm certain I've seen this technique before but I don't know what it is called 00:39:49 helloren, helloerjan, wellob_jellonas, sholacholaf 00:43:13 <\oren\> oh now i rmember! this is basically like a tree rotation! 00:43:34 Sort of? 00:44:39 <\oren\> it's like a tree rotation but the tree isn't sorted by anything and we're just doing it as a stupid trick 00:48:18 <\oren\> of course normally you could jsut use tail recursion in this case, but unfortunately we want things outputted in the right order 00:51:54 <\oren\> that is to say, the same order as if it had been a recursive function where do_tree(node) { if(tag is 1) do_leaf(c0); else {do_tree(c0); do_leaf(c1);} } 00:54:32 <\oren\> which is to say, the behaviour caused by the way the original perl code was written is now the spec for the new c++ code 00:55:36 <\oren\> we want exactly the same output but faster and using less memiore 01:01:59 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 01:02:59 quhintopia 01:11:45 o/ 01:12:05 what have i missed the last two weeks? 01:19:13 hi quintopia 01:20:26 quintopia: well the wiki/HackEgo server was gone for a couple days 01:21:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:37:52 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:40:32 -!- Remavas has joined. 01:42:48 It felt like a long time, but actually it was just about 2 days, 4 hours. 01:46:21 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:26 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:58:12 -!- Remavas has changed nick to Rem|Sleep. 02:19:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:39 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:21:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:46:58 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 02:49:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:51:27 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:03:19 [wiki] [[Comefrom0x10]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52421 * Julfers * (+6415) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Comefrom0x10 |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:Julfers]] |year=[[:Category:2016|2016]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |majori..." 04:05:09 [wiki] [[User:Julfers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52422&oldid=52417 * Julfers * (+29) 04:06:21 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52423&oldid=52408 * Julfers * (+19) 04:10:41 [wiki] [[Comefrom0x10]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52424&oldid=52421 * Julfers * (+0) 04:11:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:20:12 [wiki] [[Talk:Comefrom0x10]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52425 * Julfers * (+580) Created page with "==Turing completeness== I listed this as Turing complete because it probably is and I wrote a [https://comefrom0x10.readthedocs.io/en/latest/examples.html#brainfuck-interpret..." 04:20:17 `5 w 04:20:22 1/2:welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.) \ manglophobia//Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. \ pluto//Pluto i 04:20:23 `n 04:20:23 2/2:s an ex-planet that moonlights as a dog in Disney cartoons. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ amnesium//An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test. 04:44:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:05:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:10:03 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:03:04 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:06:39 [wiki] [[Hi\n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52426&oldid=50177 * Xavo * (-1563) Blanked the page 06:09:22 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChromaticiT * New user account 06:13:56 contrapumpkin: whoa whoa whoa, you're doing Rust? 06:14:52 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:16:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:01:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:07:20 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 07:07:29 -!- sdhand has joined. 07:07:52 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest45222. 07:33:11 -!- Guest45222 has quit (Changing host). 07:33:11 -!- Guest45222 has joined. 07:33:11 -!- Guest45222 has changed nick to sdhand. 07:36:10 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:46:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:02:43 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:23:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:29:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:34:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:46:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:34:39 -!- boily has joined. 11:44:13 `w 11:44:15 lion//Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world. They get eaten by poets in stone dens. 11:47:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:26:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ZERO CHICKEN). 12:40:31 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:59:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:00:31 -!- Melvar` has joined. 13:01:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:02:30 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:53:09 -!- Rem|Sleep has changed nick to Remavas. 13:54:48 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:10:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:18:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:19:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:23:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:40:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:53:57 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:56:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:58:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:10:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:58:06 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:05:39 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:15:16 Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise. 16:20:06 is that a joke, hmm. 16:25:43 -!- Remavas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:50 -!- Remavas has joined. 16:25:52 let's break a few VMs... 16:28:04 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:32:02 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 16:32:49 int-e: not really. I have a server for one. Do not want it to break :P Though it isn't ubuntu. Ubuntu tends to be far buggier on upgrade between LTSes 16:32:58 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 16:33:43 but yes probably going to dump the server VM, do a offline dry run upgrade, make sure it works and then either do the real upgrade or sync it back 16:36:01 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:41:21 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:42:17 -!- int-e has joined. 16:43:05 well that seems to have worked just fine. 16:44:06 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: stretch goal...). 16:49:14 -!- lambdabot has joined. 16:49:51 -!- izabera has changed nick to queenofseki. 16:50:02 Vorpal: the thing is, Debian is ultra-stable to the point where I'm running the "unstable" distribution on my home computer. (I do keep to the stable release for VMs) 16:50:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:52:03 Vorpal: anyway I can now report two successful in situ upgrades to stretch... booted without a hitch and all services that I remember are still running. 16:52:25 int-e: what about a complicated setup with LVM2 and cryptsetup-luks though ;P 16:52:37 that is not for my VM, but for my desktop 16:54:28 That might be more fun, but if it's luks then I wouldn't expect problems. Might be a good idea to keep something like Knoppix around though (which I expect has enough software on board to allow accessing the data) 16:55:16 int-e: I use http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/ for that type of purpose 16:55:32 found it to be really good 16:56:12 website looks really dated though 16:56:26 Knoppix has a browser to pass the time while the tools are working ;) 16:57:06 int-e: I believe there is a basic browser on that CD too, it has LXDE at least 16:57:11 maybe dillo or something like that? 16:58:13 int-e: the question then is, does knoppix have all the specialized tools that system rescue CD does as well? 16:58:42 actually it appears there is full on firefox on there 17:00:02 bbl going to make food. Just need to go out and pick some fresh herbs first. 17:01:11 well, I have not yet missed anything. http://www.wp-schulz.de/images/download/knoppix_77/kn-vsn.lst 17:01:27 (but mostly I just needed gparted and debootstrap) 17:03:36 Vorpal: Basically when you make a 7.7GB image you have room for a lot of stuff ;) 17:08:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:19:20 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:21:22 -!- queenofseki has changed nick to izabera. 17:25:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:28:19 int-e: does it have the complete TeXLive? 17:28:38 good question 17:29:02 int-e: what about qgis? 17:29:15 well, no, not complete... but a good chunk of texlive is in there. 17:30:13 I bet it also doesn't include the whole small groups database of gap 17:31:24 texlive-fonts-extra isn't in there, so it won't be enough to build the wisdom.pdf 17:31:42 I've upgraded three systems from jessie to stretch now without issues. 17:32:46 I think the only change that was sort of relevant from an administrationary point of view is the new network interface naming they've switched to. 17:33:38 (It's sort of opt-in if you're upgrading, but on by default on new installs.) 17:34:01 (Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.) 17:39:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:53:23 . o O ( so how do I get the apt-listchanges output again... ) 18:04:24 I don't know, I'm just happy I always get those emailed. 18:07:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:10:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:13:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:18:05 yeah apparently I never made that part work 18:20:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:23:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:24:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:25:05 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 18:25:18 (Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.) <-- huh? 18:25:23 what do I stand to gain from that 18:25:27 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:25:30 it is the same backend isn't it? 18:26:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:26:27 Anyway both debian boxes uses ufw. Though the server has some custom rules on top (for a HTTPS/SSH multiplexer, since port 443 may be accessible through some proxies where you can't reach port 22) 18:27:07 my Raspbian (where stretch has not yet been released anyway) has completely custom iptables rules because of various VPN and IPv6 tunnel routing mess 18:28:28 I use ufw as my iptables frontend :-P 18:30:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:31:58 ais523: I do that for most systems. Just in two cases I do way more complicated stuff than it can handle 18:32:23 now I'm interested in why you'd need a firewall that complex 18:32:34 in one case I managed to deal with that in the /etc/ufw custom rules files. In the other it was too messy 18:32:49 hmm, I wonder if fail2ban can be set up to block spam email 18:33:26 ais523: I set it up to block on failed logins for dovecot at least 18:33:34 so did I 18:33:43 that's a bit of a different scenario though 18:34:02 because there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people other than me to send me email 18:34:08 but no real legitimate reasons for people other than me to download my email 18:34:14 ais523: ufw doesn't allow you to set up prerouting entries for one 18:34:50 ais523: well postfix submission port can be blocked based on failed dovecot SASL logins too 18:35:03 I believe I set that up, don't quite remember 18:35:24 how often does someone try to hack into your email, and when it can't, try to send email pretending to be from you? 18:35:50 I mean, I can't see any reason not to block that 18:35:55 ais523: I get quite a few connect try AUTH disconnect password guessing bots in the logs at least 18:35:58 but I also wouldn't expect it to haev a lot of effect 18:36:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:36:08 I get AUTH guessing bots a lot too 18:36:21 usually low rate though 18:36:44 but I don't expect them to move onto the submission port when they fail 18:36:51 brb, think the stuff in the oven is ready maybe 18:36:53 err, backwards 18:37:04 I don't expect them to have guessed the dovecot password first 18:37:43 nope meringue was still not crisp 18:38:38 ais523: as for why I don't use ufw on my pi, I set it up so I route all traffic for a specific UID through a VPN, but route other traffic normally. That was invasive enough to make me ditch ufw 18:38:42 huh, someone's trying to bruteforce username/password pairs on NH4's play-a-game login interface 18:38:49 presumably thinking it's a regular telnet interface 18:39:04 they'll be pretty disappointed if they do manage to get into the account of the player called "root" :-P 18:39:19 Vorpal: Re nftables, possibly not much, especially for simple scenarios. nftables has better support for (static or dynamic) sets/maps, which can give you less-than-O(n) lookups for many things where the iptables approach would be "list of rules". And the syntax is more concise. 18:39:20 also setting up connection tracking helpers need some entries in the raw output table 18:39:30 fizzie: oh, ipset? 18:39:36 thought that existed already 18:39:41 this has been going for ages, too 18:39:52 ais523: fail2ban on it then 18:40:05 I can't easily, nothing seems to be recording the IP 18:40:13 that seems weird 18:40:21 this is rare enough (because it wouldn't actually work if it succeeded…) that I'd just ban the IP manually if I knew what it was 18:41:09 fizzie: I guess that would be nice for the Pi. I have a long list of ports to accept on for it 18:41:24 ais523: how do you even know it is happening then? 18:41:29 Vorpal: There's some support for sets on the iptables side, nft's just a lot more extensive. You can use them in a lot of contexts, and also do key-value maps, including for things like mapping to an action. 18:41:31 also I get quite regular scans on port 23 18:41:37 Vorpal: nethack4 server is logging the attempts 18:41:52 ais523: but not the ip? 18:41:53 weird 18:41:54 but it sees the connections as coming from localhost, because people telnet in and it creates a client for them 18:42:00 ah 18:42:05 Vorpal: Oh, and nft lets you do a single ruleset for IPv4/IPv6 jointly, which is an improvement in convenience over plain iptables. Probably again not relevant if you're already using a frontend like ufw. 18:42:11 like, if you connect to NH4 by telnet, you get a client process with which to do your server interaction 18:42:25 fizzie: well, I have different rules for ipv4 and ipv6 on the pi 18:43:08 So do I, but they're *mostly* similar. 18:43:16 fizzie: is the feature set a full on super-set of iptables? Last I looked (a year ago maybe) it wasn't yet 18:43:19 -!- imode has joined. 18:43:32 There's a few missing pieces, but it's not far. 18:43:41 wow, disabling sha1 based DH key exchanges in sshd actually cuts down on the authentication attempts... funny 18:43:44 fizzie: very different for me, since the pi act as a SixXS tunnel endpoint and share it to the network 18:43:56 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:43:56 the answer to this question is probably yes, but have there been any esolangs that don't have numbers of any kind built in? 18:43:59 You don't *have* to do a joint table. 18:44:31 There's also some more theoretical benefits, like you might be able to get new features just by updating the userland tooling without needing a kernel extension, since the whole infrastructure is more BPF-style virtual machiney thing. 18:44:38 imode: tons 18:44:59 % ip6tables-translate -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o eth3 -p udp -m multiport --dports 111,222 -j ACCEPT 18:44:59 nft add rule ip6 filter FORWARD iifname eth0 oifname eth3 meta l4proto udp udp dport { 111,222} counter accept 18:45:00 ais523: any "famous few"? 18:45:01 Underload is my favourite example; there's a conventional number representation but it's based on functions with specific behaviour 18:45:12 that new commands seems rather more confusing than iptables to me 18:45:21 that was just an example I found googling 18:45:23 But Is It Art? is my new favourite example for an esolang that doesn't have /any/ sort of conventional data structure 18:45:43 Is the Mill an esoarchitecture? 18:45:45 "constraint-solving tarpit" now that's interesting. 18:45:53 Vorpal: I'm guessing "meta l4proto udp" is just a translator artefact, it's not needed at all. 18:45:55 ais523: will have to look at that 18:46:10 I suppose not. 18:46:34 I was thinking of something in the style of the untyped lambda calculus. 18:46:45 iota and jot came to mind but I was wondering if there were others. 18:46:48 well if there are functioning translation tools, it shouldn't be too bad to convert it 18:47:14 Vorpal: Another semi-nice thing for complicated rulesets might be that you're not limited to a single action, which might cut down on the need for "utility chains". 18:47:51 okay yes that might be useful 18:47:56 There's still a bunch of more or less niche match types that don't have a nftables equivalent, and anyway there's probably no hurry to migrate. 18:48:29 fizzie: I set up network printing and scanning the other day. Turns out sane is one of those nasty protocols that need a connection tracking helper, it is doing separate control and data channels 18:48:43 Ended up doing a utility chain for it 18:48:47 I've seen the SANE conntrack helper around, yes. 18:49:24 Personally I'm blocked by the fact that the "tcpmss" match type is not in any release yet, though it (actually a generic "TCP options" thing) is implemented in the git, so presumably it will be coming. 18:50:02 fizzie: a little more than a year out of date, but: https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Supported_features_compared_to_xtables 18:50:19 fizzie: what do you need that for 18:50:30 tcpmss consider native interface <--? 18:50:45 Yeah, I never found out what that means. 18:50:54 Even after a lot of searching. 18:51:31 fizzie: hm I think the ufw firewall for ipv6 use the HL (hoplimit?) thing, maybe 18:51:49 Anyway, I need it for my current port knock thing, which is based on setting a specific MSS value to act as a key. 18:52:15 OK, I found the IPs using lsof 18:52:18 there were actually three of them 18:55:02 -!- augur has joined. 18:55:40 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:58:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:59:46 ugh, I hate that Pulseaudio bug 18:59:51 * ais523 turns off audible bell in the terminal 18:59:58 it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly 19:00:15 and although you can restart it, it then isn't integrated with the OS, meaning that things like the volume control shortcut keys no longer work 19:00:23 so I normally just reboot unless I'm in the middle of something important 19:00:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:12:58 <\oren\> ais523: >using pulseaudio 19:13:33 <\oren\> sudo pkill -9 pulseaudio 19:15:11 <\oren\> rm -rf ~/.pulse* 19:15:19 ooh, I found the logs, apparently systemd is keeping them 19:15:22 <\oren\> rm -rf ~/.config/pulse 19:15:23 \oren\: then I wouldn't have sound 19:15:34 <\oren\> sudo apt-get remove pulseaudio 19:15:39 <\oren\> use also 19:15:40 <\oren\> use alsa 19:15:47 <\oren\> alsa works fine 19:15:54 I actually find some of pulseaudio's features useful 19:16:00 like independent volume controls per-program 19:16:15 OK, now I'm more confident that these bans are justified 19:20:57 <\oren\> jack is a better audio thing 19:21:14 <\oren\> but really alsa works fine anyway 19:21:32 huh, how bizarre 19:21:44 when I telnet to nethack4.org the connection is logged as being over IPv6 19:21:52 and yet IPv6 testers say I don't have an IPv6 connection 19:22:07 it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly <-- this sentence grammar? 19:22:14 I fail to parse it 19:22:22 I don't think that sentence grammar 19:22:28 Vorpal: "end" is a typo for "send" 19:22:33 aah 19:22:41 it makes more sense if you put a transitive verb there :-) 19:23:18 ais523: I tried "it's" but that failed too 19:23:26 huh, why do I have IPv6 telnet if I don't have IPv6 http 19:24:18 ais523: maybe it is just bound to * and thus report clients as ipv6 mapped ipv4? 19:25:09 nah, I can telnet to the IPv6 address directly 19:25:16 then I tried sshing to it, and got a password prompt 19:25:26 then I tried sshing to my server over IPv4, and got a complaint from ssh 19:25:28 so now I'm really confused 19:27:15 ais523: check ifconfig to see if you have ipv6? 19:27:22 apart from link local I mean 19:30:58 I have IPv6 to the router but that's not surprising 19:32:05 oh, I know what happened, and why I was so confused 19:32:10 I ssh'ed from my computer to the server 19:32:13 then from the server to itself 19:32:16 ah 19:32:28 so I was connecting /from/ the wrong computer 19:32:33 that's why nothing seemed to match up 19:32:47 I need differently coloured prompts or something 19:32:55 ais523: so the server had ipv6 the whole time? 19:33:53 Vorpal: yes 19:33:57 I know my server has IPv6 19:35:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:41:51 ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug 19:42:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:42:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:42:29 ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug 19:42:47 hm right, I always turn off the bell in inputrc, so that removes the major source of it 19:42:58 might depend on the terminal emulator you use I guess 19:43:03 I use mate-terminal 19:43:33 it normally happens when scrolling in less 19:43:40 less beeps if you try to scroll past the end of the file 19:43:49 and I normally use the mouse wheel with less, so that can give a lot of inputs very quickly 19:44:23 does it? doesn't beep for me 19:44:57 I guess it reads inputrc too and disables the bell based on that? 19:45:34 I find the bell during tab completion so terrible I immediately disables it completely 19:49:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:53:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:54:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:56:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:06:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:19:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:21:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Client Quit). 20:25:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:30:44 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:30:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:30:54 shachaf: only informally :) 20:31:13 `relcome copumpkin 20:31:14 ​copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:43:25 Pressing backspace when there's no input to erase in xscreensaver's password input dialog is pretty much the only thing that produces a beep here. I don't know what exactly it's doing. 20:43:34 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 20:44:18 (URxvt.visualBell: True in .Xresources, 'xset b off' in .xsession.) 20:47:41 [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52427&oldid=52410 * Zzo38 * (+504) Character codes 20:57:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:14:29 -!- augur has joined. 21:19:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:22:51 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:27:02 -!- augur has joined. 21:45:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:50:45 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:50:53 " Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise." => oh great! 21:51:05 thanks for mentioning, I didn't notice it's come out yet 21:51:17 I'll definitely have to upgrade 21:51:25 https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ 21:57:14 How might we calculate which constellation a set of coordinates is in? One consideration will be that there are some polar constellations, Octans and Ursa Minor. The boundaries seem to be almost straight along the axis of right ascension or declination, but not quite; they are a bit off. 21:58:15 zzo38: I thought the boundaries are always polygons with latitude and longitude line boundaries 21:58:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:01 wob_jonas: Yes they are always polygons, although the lines are not always aligned like that, it is slightly off, it seems from the data 22:00:22 zzo38: really? 22:00:36 are all of them slightly off, or just some? 22:02:05 I think all, but I have not checked all of them. Here is one: https://www.iau.org/static/public/constellations/txt/and.txt The first number is right ascension and the next number is declination, you can see they are nearly aligned but not quite 22:02:37 zzo38: is it possible that they're all aligned but in a different coordinate system that is rotated compared to the one this is described in? 22:03:18 I don't know; I haven't checked. 22:03:31 um, what do those numbers mean in the text file you linked? 22:04:40 I mentioned: the first column (before the first |) is the right ascension (in hours), and the second is the declination (in degrees), and the last part is the abbreviation for the constellation name. 22:05:10 The numbers are J2000 equatorial coordinates. 22:06:05 hmm 22:15:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:22:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:35:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:12:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:14:34 -!- Remavas has changed nick to Rem|Sleep. 23:15:37 -!- erkin has joined. 23:23:17 -!- boily has joined. 23:23:19 `5 w 23:23:23 1/2:complete heyting algebra//A complete Heyting algebra is just a cartesian closed complete lattice. \ pipe//This is not a pipe. \ maths//Maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html \ portmanteau//«Portmanteau» is the French spelling of “port man to 23:23:31 `n 23:23:31 2/2:e”. 23:29:45 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 23:33:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:40:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:40:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:32 -!- augur has joined. 23:48:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:49:14 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:49:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:52:06 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:53:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 2017-07-15: 00:06:16 -!- erkin has joined. 00:14:53 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 00:20:11 update: I've now configured the server to use the sort of garish coloured prompts that people turn on because they care more about showing off what their terminal looks like than actually using it 00:20:20 hopefully I'm unlikely to forget I'm using it then 00:21:02 I think you're reading into people's intent a little more than is reasonable there. 00:21:10 ais523: and the purpose for this is to make sure you don't accidentally type something to that prompt instead of the prompt for some other server? 00:21:53 wob_jonas: nah, it's to make sure that I don't type something on the server which I expect to be on my own laptop, which I'm connecting from 00:22:08 ais523: right 00:22:09 ok 00:22:10 it's hard to actually do damage that way (probably possible), but it can be very confusing 00:22:30 because things I expect to be there just aren't (like ssh keys and programs) 00:22:50 ais523: the easiest is to shut down. I actually set up custom aliases of the form "foohalt" and "fooreboot" that are like halt and reboot but only on the machine named foo 00:23:25 (well, sort of. they're not exactly equivalent to /sbin/halt but almost the same) 00:23:30 I've never had trouble with that because it would take very bizarre circumstances to shut down my own laptop from a graphical terminal 00:23:44 if it were an emergency, I'd be using the text terminal or REISUO; if it's a routine shutdown, I'd use the GUI 00:23:57 I see 00:24:18 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:24:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:25:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:38 -!- augur has joined. 00:47:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:38:33 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:38:33 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 01:41:17 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:51:08 is urbit a running gag now. 01:51:15 because if it isn't it should be. 01:55:03 -!- jaboja64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:57 -!- jaboja has joined. 02:06:15 -!- augur has joined. 02:15:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TORSADED CHICKEN). 02:40:18 @wn torsaded 02:40:19 No match for "torsaded". 02:51:30 `dowg manager 02:51:37 8208:2016-05-29 learn Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html 02:57:15 wob_jonas: Yes I think they are aligned in a different coordinate system; the constellations are defined for B1875 but the coordinates in those file are J2000. 03:03:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: bedtime). 03:06:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Niter). 04:15:31 -!- dos has joined. 04:19:19 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:20:57 -!- dos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:10:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:25:33 -!- dos has joined. 05:27:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:28:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:34:33 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:48:15 -!- augur has joined. 07:34:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:02:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:04:11 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:39:38 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:03:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:17:08 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:55:00 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:23:58 [wiki] [[Hi\n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52428&oldid=52426 * Destructible watermelon * (+1563) Undo revision 52426 by [[Special:Contributions/Xavo|Xavo]] ([[User talk:Xavo|talk]]) 10:40:52 -!- erkin has joined. 11:31:13 upgrading debian from jessie to stretch I saw a line saying "deconfiguring udev (broken by systemd)". Scary. 11:46:40 I switched to the systemd persistent network interface names on this box, though "eno1" still looks a little weird. 11:48:22 > [1..] 11:48:24 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 11:48:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:49:12 > fix$(0:).scanl(+)1 11:49:14 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... 11:54:30 fizzie: I have seen ens33 on some box for the first wired interface 11:54:37 using ubuntu 16.04 iirc 11:54:55 might have been a VM 11:58:29 It will do "enoX" for on-board (== getting an interface index from firmware), "ensX" for pcie hotplug slots (and I think some virtualized things as well), "enpXsY" for PCI device by location, "enpXsYuZuWuQ..." for a chain of USB ports. 11:59:25 Debian installed some stuff in /etc/systemd/network/ to disable the thing for my Xen guest, with some comments about there being some weirdness going on with virtual interfaces. 12:00:07 (And of course it was doubly moot since it also won't do anything if you still have matching /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules lines.) 12:02:17 Based on "udevadm info /sys/class/net/eth0" output, I think my VPS's network interface would call itself "ens3" if it wasn't for that. 12:12:06 hmmmm magic. 12:12:11 Much magic. 12:12:37 I don't have systemd and the interface is still called eth0. I'm not complaining, but why... 12:13:01 It would be more unexpected the other way around. 12:13:19 The names I mentioned were the systemd names, the kernel names are still the ethX they've long been. 12:14:44 ah, down there: E: INTERFACE=eth0 ... fine 12:16:20 . o O ( but why is this done by systemd rather than udev anyway ) 12:17:12 . o O ( I mean they could just teach udev to use ID_NET_NAME_PATH for the interface name. It would probably be a simple rule. ) 12:17:40 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52429&oldid=52010 * Primo * (+0) /* 100-149 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency 12:18:51 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52430&oldid=52429 * Primo * (+0) /* 150-199 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency 12:21:05 They might've had an argument for that, though I forget what it was. 12:21:17 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52431&oldid=52430 * Primo * (-229) /* 200-255 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency 12:21:21 Might be just that systemd/udev developers don't really like to think of them as separate things. 12:22:04 ... 12:24:30 (The sad thing is that you're probably right. But I hate it.) 12:25:48 https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ calls it "systemd/udev" a whole lot. 12:26:11 "With systemd 197 we have added native support for a number of different naming policies into systemd/udevd proper" "same on all distributions that adopted systemd/udev" and so on. 12:26:55 oh, because that's not udevd; they have their own 12:30:38 but that's not right either; my "systemd-less" VM is running /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon 12:31:42 I thought they merged them all into a single codebase. 12:32:05 yeah, it appears they did do that 12:32:27 I assume they'll incrementally make it harder and harder to use udev without the rest of systemd. 12:43:22 systemd is a cancer, it gets everywhere. I think that's the main reason I hate it. That and I have to relearn things with no (immediate) benefit to me. 12:44:24 (The core dump interception is perhaps the bit that has me bitten the hardest so far. It can be turned off, but first one has to figure out *why* the core dumps are no longer produced the way they used to be.) 12:45:27 I'm also no big fan of the system journal; I like perusing text files. 12:46:06 * int-e is an irrational being at heart :P 12:46:30 There's a lot of "something's happening, and I have no idea where it's configured" going on there. 12:47:57 (Oh right, builtin policies. I wanted to configure my laptop so that it wouldn't go to sleep when the lid is closed while it's in a docking station... I don't think I managed, but it's been a while since I really tried.) 12:48:23 (I *do* want it to sleep when the lid is closed while it's running on battery.) 12:54:37 fizzie: well, UEFI is bugged after upgrade. No boot device found 12:54:48 booting from USB stick now to fix it 12:54:58 -!- sdhand has quit (Excess Flood). 12:55:02 Huh, unlucky. 12:55:03 fun :-/ 12:55:07 -!- sdhand has joined. 12:55:17 "Worked fine for me." 12:55:30 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest28947. 12:56:03 great, I only get screen on the right monitor using this on this USB stick. Fuck nvidia maybe 12:56:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:58:10 -!- Guest28947 has quit (Changing host). 12:58:10 -!- Guest28947 has joined. 12:58:10 -!- Guest28947 has changed nick to sdhand. 12:59:06 okay unplugged that monitor, rebooted. Now I get an "incompatible input timing" message on my main monitor 12:59:07 oh well 12:59:45 -!- aloril has joined. 13:00:07 . o O ( No boot device found, is that coming from the BIOS or later? I've had trouble telling the BIOS about a new configuration from Linux; had to search for it in the BIOS setup itself. But I don't fully understand this ... basically I'm just glad I got it to work. ) 13:00:26 int-e: it is from the UEFI/BIOS 13:04:03 I guess what I'm saying is that going through the BIOS' boot setup *may* be necessary to get things to work, because that has happened to me. This is anecdotal, not scientific. 13:05:16 Computers: not an exact science. 13:05:40 since red hat sells training and consulting, it only makes sense for it to make systemd as complicated as possible 13:06:16 Well the output from efibootmgr is borked. Didn't list any EFI based debian 13:06:40 The other day I briefly unplugged one monitor, and after plugging it back (until the next reboot), xscreensaver's screen-blanking only blanked about 90% of the screen, leaving about one fifth of the left monitor's left edge showing whatever was there before locking the screen. 13:06:41 I guess what I'm saying is that going through the BIOS' boot setup *may* be necessary to get things to work, because that has happened to me. This is anecdotal, not scientific. <-- can't do it from there, have to do it from live USB 13:06:47 in my case 13:07:29 fizzie: well this display works normally, but from the stripped down system rescue CD apparently. 13:07:35 I blame nvidia 13:08:23 looks much better in efibootmgr now, hopefully the info is correct too 13:08:35 Also, when switching to the GLVND variant of the non-free nvidia driver, I had to install both libgl1-glvnd-nvidia-glx and libgl1-nvidia-glvnd-glx, which are two different packages. 13:10:52 fizzie: my nvidia card is too new to be supported by non-free drivers (at least for 3D acceleration) last I looked 13:11:01 err by the free I mean 13:11:17 fizzie: what is the glvnd thing? 13:11:49 https://github.com/NVIDIA/libglvnd -- they make two variants of their binary driver nowadays, with and without that. 13:12:01 jeez, ACP and LVM errors from super-early kernel/initramfs 13:12:27 oh neat 13:13:18 I don't know what it's good for, but an "nvidia-vulkan-common" upgrade (on Debian testing) was listed as conflicting with the non-GLVND variant. 13:16:06 ah 13:17:23 interesting, the new version of debian auto-mounted a data disk with NTFS as rw under /media// 13:17:36 not the system (C:) partition though 13:18:27 I use "udisksctl mount -b /dev/..." to mount removable media, and can never tell how it decides between /media/usb0 and /media//