< 1499991160 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, [...] <-- sorry, didn't pay that much attention before deleting. < 1499991331 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499991356 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for that trick where traverse a linked list and keep track of where you are by each time you move to a child you make it point back to its parent so you can go back < 1499991396 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a name for that trick I shoudl use it for this commit messge < 1499991409 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zipper? < 1499991430 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1499991530 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"made this not stack over flow by using a zipper technique instead of just recursing" < 1499991544 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1499991738 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i think the "Sort of" is pretty big there. < 1499991763 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah noone reads my code anyway < 1499991775 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: What does the program do? < 1499991784 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should post the code. < 1499991791 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr this being used for gc way before zippers were invented. < 1499991799 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't really zipper anyway. < 1499991802 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's related? < 1499991821 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use an xor doubly linked list hth < 1499991822 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads some crap in, parses it into a tree but the tree is too big to traverse < 1499991846 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need to use this stupid zippery technique to avoid stack overflows < 1499991858 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then outputs some other crap < 1499991887 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo post a simplified version twh < 1499991947 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I've heard of that trick, and I don't know how generally it can be done. I wonder if it could be used for a garbage collector following conses with arbitrary cyclical links, possibly combined with an xor trick. < 1499991954 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it had a name. < 1499992007 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that garbage collector use is where i've seen it. < 1499992065 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably have to look in Knuth chapters 2 and 6 to see if it has a name < 1499992078 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to talk by Knuth once that talked about something similar to a zipper. < 1499992089 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok hold on < 1499992095 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the way he had of drawing/thinking about it. < 1499992135 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a big fan of Knuth's books. They're so awesome. < 1499992163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW3vgJYYIok < 1499992173 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read his books. < 1499992244 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/sJEGNtjQ < 1499992353 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine that do_leaf is also doing the same thing < 1499992366 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah... < 1499992510 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't eliminate recursions, it just reduces the amount of recursion to manageable level < 1499992621 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm certain I've seen this technique before but I don't know what it is called < 1499992789 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloren, helloerjan, wellob_jellonas, sholacholaf < 1499992993 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now i rmember! this is basically like a tree rotation! < 1499993014 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of? < 1499993079 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a tree rotation but the tree isn't sorted by anything and we're just doing it as a stupid trick < 1499993298 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course normally you could jsut use tail recursion in this case, but unfortunately we want things outputted in the right order < 1499993514 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, the same order as if it had been a recursive function where do_tree(node) { if(tag is 1) do_leaf(c0); else {do_tree(c0); do_leaf(c1);} } < 1499993672 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say, the behaviour caused by the way the original perl code was written is now the spec for the new c++ code < 1499993736 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want exactly the same output but faster and using less memiore < 1499994119 0 :hppavilion[0]!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1499994179 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quhintopia < 1499994705 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1499994725 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i missed the last two weeks? < 1499995153 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia < 1499995226 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well the wiki/HackEgo server was gone for a couple days < 1499995314 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499996272 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1499996432 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1499996568 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It felt like a long time, but actually it was just about 2 days, 4 hours. < 1499996781 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499997146 0 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1499997492 0 :Remavas!?@? NICK :Rem|Sleep < 1499998749 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1499998779 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.113 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1499998863 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500000418 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500000573 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500000687 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500004999 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Comefrom0x1014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52421 5* 03Julfers 5* (+6415) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Comefrom0x10 |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:Julfers]] |year=[[:Category:2016|2016]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |majori..." < 1500005109 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Julfers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52422&oldid=52417 5* 03Julfers 5* (+29) 10 < 1500005181 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52423&oldid=52408 5* 03Julfers 5* (+19) 10 < 1500005441 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Comefrom0x1014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52424&oldid=52421 5* 03Julfers 5* (+0) 10 < 1500005508 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500006012 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Comefrom0x1014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52425 5* 03Julfers 5* (+580) 10Created page with "==Turing completeness== I listed this as Turing complete because it probably is and I wrote a [https://comefrom0x10.readthedocs.io/en/latest/examples.html#brainfuck-interpret..." < 1500006017 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1500006022 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.) \ manglophobia//Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. \ pluto//Pluto i < 1500006023 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1500006023 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:s an ex-planet that moonlights as a dog in Disney cartoons. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ amnesium//An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test. < 1500007445 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500008733 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1500009003 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:e0d6:97d6:dfb0:b446 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500012184 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:e0d6:97d6:dfb0:b446 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500012399 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hi\n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52426&oldid=50177 5* 03Xavo 5* (-1563) 10Blanked the page < 1500012562 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03ChromaticiT 5* 10New user account < 1500012836 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :contrapumpkin: whoa whoa whoa, you're doing Rust? < 1500012892 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:85f6:b055:e124:9e3a JOIN :#esoteric < 1500012997 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1500015707 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1500016040 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Excess Flood < 1500016049 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1500016072 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest45222 < 1500017591 0 :Guest45222!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Changing host < 1500017591 0 :Guest45222!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1500017591 0 :Guest45222!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1500017770 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:85f6:b055:e124:9e3a QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500018410 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500019363 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjbrhlvoikedjymx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1500020580 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500020959 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500024879 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500029195 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500032079 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500032653 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1500032655 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lion//Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world. They get eaten by poets in stone dens. < 1500032855 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500035213 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ZERO CHICKEN < 1500036031 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c9a6:ed52:49f:76b2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500037180 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500037231 0 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1500037266 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-101-252.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1500037350 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-062-101-252.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1500040389 0 :Rem|Sleep!?@? NICK :Remavas < 1500040488 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500040830 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500041408 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500041889 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500041959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500042189 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c9a6:ed52:49f:76b2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500042267 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500043234 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1500044037 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1500044165 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500044337 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500045005 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500047886 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500048339 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500048916 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise. < 1500049206 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a joke, hmm. < 1500049543 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500049550 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1500049552 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's break a few VMs... < 1500049684 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500049922 0 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1500049969 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not really. I have a server for one. Do not want it to break :P Though it isn't ubuntu. Ubuntu tends to be far buggier on upgrade between LTSes < 1500049978 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500050023 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes probably going to dump the server VM, do a offline dry run upgrade, make sure it works and then either do the real upgrade or sync it back < 1500050161 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1500050481 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500050537 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1500050585 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that seems to have worked just fine. < 1500050646 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Quit: stretch goal... < 1500050954 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1500050991 0 :izabera!?@? NICK :queenofseki < 1500051002 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the thing is, Debian is ultra-stable to the point where I'm running the "unstable" distribution on my home computer. (I do keep to the stable release for VMs) < 1500051033 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500051123 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway I can now report two successful in situ upgrades to stretch... booted without a hitch and all services that I remember are still running. < 1500051145 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what about a complicated setup with LVM2 and cryptsetup-luks though ;P < 1500051157 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not for my VM, but for my desktop < 1500051268 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be more fun, but if it's luks then I wouldn't expect problems. Might be a good idea to keep something like Knoppix around though (which I expect has enough software on board to allow accessing the data) < 1500051316 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I use http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/ for that type of purpose < 1500051332 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it to be really good < 1500051372 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :website looks really dated though < 1500051386 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knoppix has a browser to pass the time while the tools are working ;) < 1500051426 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I believe there is a basic browser on that CD too, it has LXDE at least < 1500051431 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe dillo or something like that? < 1500051493 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the question then is, does knoppix have all the specialized tools that system rescue CD does as well? < 1500051522 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it appears there is full on firefox on there < 1500051602 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl going to make food. Just need to go out and pick some fresh herbs first. < 1500051671 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have not yet missed anything. http://www.wp-schulz.de/images/download/knoppix_77/kn-vsn.lst < 1500051687 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but mostly I just needed gparted and debootstrap) < 1500051816 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Basically when you make a 7.7GB image you have room for a lot of stuff ;) < 1500052092 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500052760 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500052882 0 :queenofseki!?@? NICK :izabera < 1500053107 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500053299 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does it have the complete TeXLive? < 1500053318 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1500053342 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what about qgis? < 1500053355 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, not complete... but a good chunk of texlive is in there. < 1500053413 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it also doesn't include the whole small groups database of gap < 1500053484 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :texlive-fonts-extra isn't in there, so it won't be enough to build the wisdom.pdf < 1500053502 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've upgraded three systems from jessie to stretch now without issues. < 1500053566 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only change that was sort of relevant from an administrationary point of view is the new network interface naming they've switched to. < 1500053618 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's sort of opt-in if you're upgrading, but on by default on new installs.) < 1500053641 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.) < 1500053948 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500054425 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500054454 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500054803 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( so how do I get the apt-listchanges output again... ) < 1500055464 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I'm just happy I always get those emailed. < 1500055631 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500055822 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500056032 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1500056285 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah apparently I never made that part work < 1500056422 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1500056604 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500056674 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500056705 0 :Melvar`!?@? NICK :Melvar < 1500056718 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.) <-- huh? < 1500056723 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I stand to gain from that < 1500056727 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1500056730 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the same backend isn't it? < 1500056765 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500056787 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway both debian boxes uses ufw. Though the server has some custom rules on top (for a HTTPS/SSH multiplexer, since port 443 may be accessible through some proxies where you can't reach port 22) < 1500056827 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Raspbian (where stretch has not yet been released anyway) has completely custom iptables rules because of various VPN and IPv6 tunnel routing mess < 1500056908 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ufw as my iptables frontend :-P < 1500057028 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1500057118 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do that for most systems. Just in two cases I do way more complicated stuff than it can handle < 1500057143 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm interested in why you'd need a firewall that complex < 1500057154 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one case I managed to deal with that in the /etc/ufw custom rules files. In the other it was too messy < 1500057169 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if fail2ban can be set up to block spam email < 1500057206 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I set it up to block on failed logins for dovecot at least < 1500057214 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did I < 1500057223 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit of a different scenario though < 1500057242 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people other than me to send me email < 1500057248 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no real legitimate reasons for people other than me to download my email < 1500057254 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ufw doesn't allow you to set up prerouting entries for one < 1500057290 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well postfix submission port can be blocked based on failed dovecot SASL logins too < 1500057303 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I set that up, don't quite remember < 1500057324 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often does someone try to hack into your email, and when it can't, try to send email pretending to be from you? < 1500057350 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can't see any reason not to block that < 1500057355 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I get quite a few connect try AUTH disconnect password guessing bots in the logs at least < 1500057358 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also wouldn't expect it to haev a lot of effect < 1500057367 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500057368 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get AUTH guessing bots a lot too < 1500057381 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually low rate though < 1500057404 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't expect them to move onto the submission port when they fail < 1500057411 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, think the stuff in the oven is ready maybe < 1500057413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, backwards < 1500057424 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect them to have guessed the dovecot password first < 1500057463 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope meringue was still not crisp < 1500057518 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as for why I don't use ufw on my pi, I set it up so I route all traffic for a specific UID through a VPN, but route other traffic normally. That was invasive enough to make me ditch ufw < 1500057522 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, someone's trying to bruteforce username/password pairs on NH4's play-a-game login interface < 1500057529 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably thinking it's a regular telnet interface < 1500057544 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll be pretty disappointed if they do manage to get into the account of the player called "root" :-P < 1500057559 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Re nftables, possibly not much, especially for simple scenarios. nftables has better support for (static or dynamic) sets/maps, which can give you less-than-O(n) lookups for many things where the iptables approach would be "list of rules". And the syntax is more concise. < 1500057560 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also setting up connection tracking helpers need some entries in the raw output table < 1500057570 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, ipset? < 1500057576 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that existed already < 1500057581 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has been going for ages, too < 1500057592 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fail2ban on it then < 1500057605 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't easily, nothing seems to be recording the IP < 1500057613 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems weird < 1500057621 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is rare enough (because it wouldn't actually work if it succeeded…) that I'd just ban the IP manually if I knew what it was < 1500057669 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess that would be nice for the Pi. I have a long list of ports to accept on for it < 1500057684 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you even know it is happening then? < 1500057689 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's some support for sets on the iptables side, nft's just a lot more extensive. You can use them in a lot of contexts, and also do key-value maps, including for things like mapping to an action. < 1500057691 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I get quite regular scans on port 23 < 1500057697 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nethack4 server is logging the attempts < 1500057712 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but not the ip? < 1500057713 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1500057714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sees the connections as coming from localhost, because people telnet in and it creates a client for them < 1500057720 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1500057725 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and nft lets you do a single ruleset for IPv4/IPv6 jointly, which is an improvement in convenience over plain iptables. Probably again not relevant if you're already using a frontend like ufw. < 1500057731 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you connect to NH4 by telnet, you get a client process with which to do your server interaction < 1500057745 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, I have different rules for ipv4 and ipv6 on the pi < 1500057788 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I, but they're *mostly* similar. < 1500057796 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the feature set a full on super-set of iptables? Last I looked (a year ago maybe) it wasn't yet < 1500057799 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1500057812 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few missing pieces, but it's not far. < 1500057821 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, disabling sha1 based DH key exchanges in sshd actually cuts down on the authentication attempts... funny < 1500057824 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: very different for me, since the pi act as a SixXS tunnel endpoint and share it to the network < 1500057836 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500057836 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer to this question is probably yes, but have there been any esolangs that don't have numbers of any kind built in? < 1500057839 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't *have* to do a joint table. < 1500057871 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some more theoretical benefits, like you might be able to get new features just by updating the userland tooling without needing a kernel extension, since the whole infrastructure is more BPF-style virtual machiney thing. < 1500057878 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: tons < 1500057899 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ip6tables-translate -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o eth3 -p udp -m multiport --dports 111,222 -j ACCEPT < 1500057899 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nft add rule ip6 filter FORWARD iifname eth0 oifname eth3 meta l4proto udp udp dport { 111,222} counter accept < 1500057900 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any "famous few"? < 1500057901 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is my favourite example; there's a conventional number representation but it's based on functions with specific behaviour < 1500057912 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that new commands seems rather more confusing than iptables to me < 1500057921 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just an example I found googling < 1500057923 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Is It Art? is my new favourite example for an esolang that doesn't have /any/ sort of conventional data structure < 1500057943 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Mill an esoarchitecture? < 1500057945 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"constraint-solving tarpit" now that's interesting. < 1500057953 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm guessing "meta l4proto udp" is just a translator artefact, it's not needed at all. < 1500057955 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will have to look at that < 1500057970 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose not. < 1500057994 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something in the style of the untyped lambda calculus. < 1500058005 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iota and jot came to mind but I was wondering if there were others. < 1500058008 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if there are functioning translation tools, it shouldn't be too bad to convert it < 1500058034 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Another semi-nice thing for complicated rulesets might be that you're not limited to a single action, which might cut down on the need for "utility chains". < 1500058071 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay yes that might be useful < 1500058076 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still a bunch of more or less niche match types that don't have a nftables equivalent, and anyway there's probably no hurry to migrate. < 1500058109 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I set up network printing and scanning the other day. Turns out sane is one of those nasty protocols that need a connection tracking helper, it is doing separate control and data channels < 1500058123 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ended up doing a utility chain for it < 1500058127 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen the SANE conntrack helper around, yes. < 1500058164 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'm blocked by the fact that the "tcpmss" match type is not in any release yet, though it (actually a generic "TCP options" thing) is implemented in the git, so presumably it will be coming. < 1500058202 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a little more than a year out of date, but: https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Supported_features_compared_to_xtables < 1500058219 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what do you need that for < 1500058230 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcpmss consider native interface <--? < 1500058245 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I never found out what that means. < 1500058254 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even after a lot of searching. < 1500058291 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm I think the ufw firewall for ipv6 use the HL (hoplimit?) thing, maybe < 1500058309 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I need it for my current port knock thing, which is based on setting a specific MSS value to act as a key. < 1500058335 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I found the IPs using lsof < 1500058338 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were actually three of them < 1500058502 0 :augur!~augur@67-207-118-226.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1500058540 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1500058738 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500058786 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I hate that Pulseaudio bug < 1500058791 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns off audible bell in the terminal < 1500058798 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly < 1500058815 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although you can restart it, it then isn't integrated with the OS, meaning that things like the volume control shortcut keys no longer work < 1500058823 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I normally just reboot unless I'm in the middle of something important < 1500058848 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500059578 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: >using pulseaudio < 1500059613 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo pkill -9 pulseaudio < 1500059711 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf ~/.pulse* < 1500059719 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I found the logs, apparently systemd is keeping them < 1500059722 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf ~/.config/pulse < 1500059723 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: then I wouldn't have sound < 1500059734 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get remove pulseaudio < 1500059739 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use also < 1500059740 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use alsa < 1500059747 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsa works fine < 1500059754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually find some of pulseaudio's features useful < 1500059760 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like independent volume controls per-program < 1500059775 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I'm more confident that these bans are justified < 1500060057 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jack is a better audio thing < 1500060074 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really alsa works fine anyway < 1500060092 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, how bizarre < 1500060104 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I telnet to nethack4.org the connection is logged as being over IPv6 < 1500060112 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet IPv6 testers say I don't have an IPv6 connection < 1500060127 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly <-- this sentence grammar? < 1500060134 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to parse it < 1500060142 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that sentence grammar < 1500060148 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "end" is a typo for "send" < 1500060153 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1500060161 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense if you put a transitive verb there :-) < 1500060198 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I tried "it's" but that failed too < 1500060206 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, why do I have IPv6 telnet if I don't have IPv6 http < 1500060258 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it is just bound to * and thus report clients as ipv6 mapped ipv4? < 1500060309 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I can telnet to the IPv6 address directly < 1500060316 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I tried sshing to it, and got a password prompt < 1500060326 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I tried sshing to my server over IPv4, and got a complaint from ssh < 1500060328 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now I'm really confused < 1500060435 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check ifconfig to see if you have ipv6? < 1500060442 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from link local I mean < 1500060658 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have IPv6 to the router but that's not surprising < 1500060725 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know what happened, and why I was so confused < 1500060730 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ssh'ed from my computer to the server < 1500060733 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then from the server to itself < 1500060736 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1500060748 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was connecting /from/ the wrong computer < 1500060753 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why nothing seemed to match up < 1500060767 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need differently coloured prompts or something < 1500060775 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so the server had ipv6 the whole time? < 1500060833 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1500060837 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my server has IPv6 < 1500060940 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500061311 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug < 1500061335 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1500061345 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500061349 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug < 1500061367 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right, I always turn off the bell in inputrc, so that removes the major source of it < 1500061378 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :might depend on the terminal emulator you use I guess < 1500061383 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use mate-terminal < 1500061413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it normally happens when scrolling in less < 1500061420 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :less beeps if you try to scroll past the end of the file < 1500061429 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I normally use the mouse wheel with less, so that can give a lot of inputs very quickly < 1500061463 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? doesn't beep for me < 1500061497 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it reads inputrc too and disables the bell based on that? < 1500061534 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the bell during tab completion so terrible I immediately disables it completely < 1500061764 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500062007 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500062076 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500062203 0 :augur!~augur@67-207-118-226.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500062732 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500062801 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500063579 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1500063668 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit < 1500063932 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1500064244 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500064247 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500064254 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: only informally :) < 1500064273 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome copumpkin < 1500064274 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07copumpkin: 08Welcome 09to 02the 06international 13hub 04for 07esoteric 08programming 09language 02design 06and 13deployment! 04For 07more 08information, 09check 02out 06our 13wiki: 04. 07(For 08the 09other 02kind 06of 13esoterica, 04try 07#esoteric 08on 09EFnet 02or 06DALnet.) < 1500065005 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressing backspace when there's no input to erase in xscreensaver's password input dialog is pretty much the only thing that produces a beep here. I don't know what exactly it's doing. < 1500065014 0 :Remavas-Hex!?@? NICK :Remavas < 1500065058 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(URxvt.visualBell: True in .Xresources, 'xset b off' in .xsession.) < 1500065261 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52427&oldid=52410 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+504) 10Character codes < 1500065856 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1500066869 0 :augur!~augur@c-76-103-28-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500067162 0 :augur!~augur@c-76-103-28-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1500067371 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500067622 0 :augur!~augur@c-76-103-28-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500068734 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1500069045 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500069053 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise." => oh great! < 1500069065 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for mentioning, I didn't notice it's come out yet < 1500069077 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely have to upgrade < 1500069085 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ < 1500069434 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How might we calculate which constellation a set of coordinates is in? One consideration will be that there are some polar constellations, Octans and Ursa Minor. The boundaries seem to be almost straight along the axis of right ascension or declination, but not quite; they are a bit off. < 1500069495 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I thought the boundaries are always polygons with latitude and longitude line boundaries < 1500069521 0 :augur!~augur@c-76-103-28-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500069601 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes they are always polygons, although the lines are not always aligned like that, it is slightly off, it seems from the data < 1500069622 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: really? < 1500069636 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all of them slightly off, or just some? < 1500069725 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all, but I have not checked all of them. Here is one: https://www.iau.org/static/public/constellations/txt/and.txt The first number is right ascension and the next number is declination, you can see they are nearly aligned but not quite < 1500069757 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is it possible that they're all aligned but in a different coordinate system that is rotated compared to the one this is described in? < 1500069798 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I haven't checked. < 1500069811 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what do those numbers mean in the text file you linked? < 1500069880 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned: the first column (before the first |) is the right ascension (in hours), and the second is the declination (in degrees), and the last part is the abbreviation for the constellation name. < 1500069910 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are J2000 equatorial coordinates. < 1500069965 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1500070516 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500070922 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500071716 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500073962 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1500074074 0 :Remavas!?@? NICK :Rem|Sleep < 1500074137 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500074597 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500074599 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1500074603 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:complete heyting algebra//A complete Heyting algebra is just a cartesian closed complete lattice. \ pipe//This is not a pipe. \ maths//Maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html \ portmanteau//«Portmanteau» is the French spelling of “port man to < 1500074611 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1500074611 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:e”. < 1500074985 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500075215 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500075613 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500075640 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500075653 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500075872 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500076085 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500076154 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1500076191 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500076326 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1500076413 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric