00:01:07 __kerbal__: Both, I believe. It was a while ago that I wrote this. I can barely understand my own prose. 00:01:11 * hppavilion[1] should learn PERL 00:04:05 <__kerbal__> Um... how does that work, exactly? Is it a quantum thing? 00:04:59 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:05:13 \oren\: but maybe if it _were_ on fire, you might finally get rid of the build system! 00:08:55 <\oren\> literally everything is broken 00:09:46 <\oren\> email, ssh, and even hipchat are all fucking dead 00:13:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:05 Sounds like a Cloud At Cost server to me. 00:15:47 <\oren\> has california just been annihilated by nuclear attack? 00:15:53 oerjan: why do you keep bugging \oren\ about the build system 00:19:30 i was just trying to raise his hopes hth 00:20:11 also, i thought you were the one previously doing that. 00:20:22 looks like it's not necessary anymore tdh 00:20:49 i accidentally saw a photograph of \oren\ the other day 00:20:59 was it shocking? 00:21:01 photographs are scow 00:21:07 it was mildly shocking 00:21:23 \oren\: i think not, unless shachaf is a ghost 00:21:29 how did that happen? 00:21:55 I was trying to remember whether it was SoundHound that he worked at. 00:22:03 oh man 00:22:07 "I have experience using both the Waterfall methodology and Agile/XP methodologies." 00:22:14 so many methodologies 00:22:59 <\oren\> yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process 00:23:16 isn't "waterfall" a straw man that people use to sell scrum 00:23:24 <\oren\> pretty much 00:23:32 yup 00:23:36 16:00 I read some passwords from https://www.isi.edu/natural-language/people/poem/poem.php and now I can't stop thinking in iambic tetrameter. 00:23:51 the hydrological cycle methodology 00:23:54 <\oren\> next time I update linkedin I shoudl delete that line 00:24:15 Are you going to keep working at this company? 00:24:35 They can't even get my humming right. 00:25:05 <\oren\> assuming working conditions remain ok, and they keep paying me, why not? 00:25:33 Well, the servers are on fire, and you hate your build system. 00:25:48 Why not work at a company that pays you twice as much? 00:25:58 . o O ( someone should invent the scram methodology ) 00:26:26 <\oren\> hey, they're back online! 00:26:35 oerjan: https://68.media.tumblr.com/74d95a31741535ce4661efb0c710d8ac/tumblr_inline_mhyiwy6aAE1qz4rgp.png 00:26:38 <\oren\> I wonder hwy everything broke suddenly 00:27:12 -!- digitalcold has joined. 00:27:21 <\oren\> shachaf: i've had offers but they all involved moving to the usa 00:27:31 <\oren\> and well... fuck that 00:27:39 Why don't you like the USA? 00:28:12 <\oren\> dangerous 00:29:01 I feel like I did the iambic tetrameter thing in here before. 00:29:04 Or at least somewhere in IRC. 00:29:31 shachaf: hm i remember that from last you told me about those, i think. (but not what they were called.) 00:30:00 http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/16.06.07 00:30:05 22:39:20 oerjan: placenta-based homology? / i owe you an apology 00:30:12 That's right. 00:30:50 shachaf: not the tetrameters, the scrams 00:30:57 <\oren\> the usa is a dangerous place, a lot of the places require owning (and learning to drive) a car, and I like my free healthcare 00:31:04 Oh. 00:31:16 oerjan: They're called knids in English, apparently. 00:31:23 I didn't read the book in English, I don't think. 00:31:47 \oren\: Well, you can move somewhere that doesn't require a car. 00:32:27 How much are you willing to pay for free healthcare? 00:34:02 <\oren\> it's... free 00:34:54 I thought you were saying you had offers to be paid twice as much to move to the USA. 00:35:56 oerjan: I think the iambic tetrameter I was thinking of may have been Kubla Khan. 00:36:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:43:22 "yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process" => wait, I thought "waterfall" was management-speak for "we don't know what the program we want to create has to do, but just create 90% of it anyway without a spec, then near the end we'll tell what it should have done and you'll just change it to do tha 00:43:22 t instead in a week." 00:45:30 <\oren\> lol 00:46:16 I admit I know little about all this methodology andpattern thing. 00:46:58 We have a software team with buzzword-oriented development though, you could ask them. 00:52:20 They're competent, mind you, but they have all these complicated procedures and meetings and task tracking docs. 00:56:46 restarting my browser when i have 3 youtube tabs open is somewhat noisy. 00:57:57 a man who seldom speaks his mind / can cause behavior undefined 00:58:01 [wiki] [[Getchl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52413&oldid=45294 * Kerbal * (+8849) Added the info from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing 00:58:35 <__kerbal__> hppavilion[1]: Here you go 00:58:45 <__kerbal__> not perfect, but a start 00:58:45 __kerbal__: Yay 01:11:52 -!- imode has joined. 01:24:23 <__kerbal__> An idea... what if the only storage in a program was the title thing that displays above a program window in Windows? Or some other bizarre component normally used for something else? 01:24:55 <__kerbal__> Would be a weird language 01:32:58 __kerbal__: Huh, perhaps. But it sounds more like a hack than an inherently-weird feature 01:33:13 <__kerbal__> True... 01:33:40 <__kerbal__> You've a point 01:42:58 <__kerbal__> I still am thinking about building a framework for executing multiple tape-based languages on the same tape. That could be a useful, very esoteric way to leverage the benefits of multiple languages. You could download and share images between programs by combining Graphical BF and Netf***, and implement threading with Weave or a similar language. 01:43:26 <__kerbal__> I know that all the languages I mentioned are BF variants, but you could use others as well, like my esolang 01:48:37 <__kerbal__> You'd have a readable, simple language (I'm calling it TapeLang right now) holding everything together. Perhaps (although this may or may not actually happen) the language would treat other programs as first-class citizens 02:01:00 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:06:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:06:43 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:09:06 -!- augur has joined. 02:13:05 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:17:01 -!- ineiros has joined. 02:19:36 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:24:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:46:52 -!- jaboja has joined. 02:49:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:51:42 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:53:12 -!- augur has joined. 03:01:02 `5 w 03:01:06 1/2:lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ mousse//A mousse is a sharp rodent. "A mousse once bit my sister." \ monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, 03:01:08 `n 03:01:09 2/2: if you find him. \ code//[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... 03:01:15 `cwlprits code 03:01:21 tsweẗt int-̈e 03:01:49 `dowg code 03:01:55 5674:2015-06-24 echo \'[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...\' > wisdom/code \ 5658: 03:02:00 `2 dowg code 03:02:07 2/2:658:2015-06-23 le/rn code/5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 03:02:32 int-e, Warrigal: what's all this then? 03:12:08 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:23:38 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 03:27:53 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:31:14 -!- ineiros has joined. 03:34:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:43:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:26:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:29:26 -!- augur has joined. 04:42:54 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:10:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:10:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:11:47 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:18:43 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:35:49 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:36:57 [wiki] [[XRF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52414&oldid=41670 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link 05:37:40 [wiki] [[Slim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52415&oldid=45218 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link 05:42:25 <\oren\> Hmm, I think what I need is to write a preprocessor for kerboscript programs. I will write said preprocessor itself in kerboscript. 05:47:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:09:41 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:59:22 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:03:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:25:59 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:31:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 07:43:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:55:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:58:52 `? password 07:58:53 The password of the month is out of date tdnh 08:00:30 shachaf: mine was contextual; Randomly generated error message: 13:37:54: `run echo $ 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 08:01:08 ... 15:09:28: data darn, preceding the complete path 08:01:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:03:28 `learn The password of the month is blowin' in the wind. 08:03:30 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is blowin' in the wind. 08:10:43 `dowg password 08:10:49 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595: 08:12:10 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:42:22 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:52:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:08:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:29:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 09:37:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:30:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:00 -!- augur has joined. 11:06:02 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:07:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:24:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:34:35 -!- boily has joined. 12:21:43 -!- augur has joined. 12:23:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FLAVOUR CHICKEN). 12:32:29 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:33:25 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 14:00:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:16:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:33:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:33:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:44:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:51:28 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:05:58 -!- imode has joined. 15:09:59 I'm looking for some good spam so I can pretend to be a bot on a webforum 15:10:22 does anyone know an abandoned forum that I can mine for material? 15:11:00 doesthiswork: https://esolangs.org/forum/ hth 15:11:32 perfect, thank you 15:11:34 the spam isn't very fresh though, since it's also readonly. 15:15:13 stale is fine, quantity is what I needed 15:15:15 we had a forum? wow... 15:16:19 And wow, selling box sets of DVDs. How quaint. No Game of Thrones either. 15:17:25 (what a difference 6 years can make) 15:40:01 --- part: lord_EarlGray left #esoteric <-- i guess we weren't his cup of tea. 15:43:52 There were even a few non-spam posts in the forum. 15:43:54 Not many though. 16:03:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:38:11 word-addressible or byte-addressible? 16:38:30 s/sible/sable 16:41:16 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:42:14 -!- atslash has joined. 16:43:23 -!- atslash has quit (Client Quit). 16:51:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:54:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:16:41 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:22:42 `dowg password 17:22:48 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595: 17:23:58 deja vu. 17:24:48 so it was. 17:25:03 i was surprised it had really been a month. 17:25:12 `? time flies 17:25:12 time flies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:25:19 bzzz! 17:25:26 `` grwp -i time flies 17:25:27 grep: flies: No such file or directory \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ `4:`4 is equivalent to `5 , except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5. \ `5:`5 is equivalent to repeating `` 17:25:37 `` grwp -i 'time flies' 17:25:39 No output. 17:25:59 `? arrow 17:26:00 Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. 17:26:01 . o O ( time flies are buzzing around the clock ) 17:28:53 `learn_append arrow Time flies are attracted to them. 17:28:55 Learned 'arrow': Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. Time flies are attracted to them. 17:29:01 oops 17:29:03 `revert 17:29:04 Done. 17:29:35 oh wait 17:29:38 `revert 17:29:39 Done. 17:29:52 `? hand 17:29:52 * oerjan got confused by the absence of "Relearned" 17:29:53 A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 17:31:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:36:22 that's what she says 17:40:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:51:32 -!- imode has joined. 17:56:13 <\oren\> hey. what if you have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole words 18:05:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:06 -!- augur has joined. 18:06:50 . o O ( what if I have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole cache lines, except for memory regions marked specially to indicate that they are used for memory mapped IO? ) 18:09:02 why on Earth would anyone send an email with Reply-To == To ? 18:09:23 because it's fun? 18:09:55 (It *was* an email that people might want to reply to. Maybe it's a way to fend off automatic replies like the notorious out of office emails.) 18:16:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:16:47 Just send it to Steve Morshead 18:18:32 cute 18:18:49 but apparently they closed the account 18:19:05 oh, are closing, I see 18:22:15 -!- augur has joined. 18:31:59 Actually the notice was sent in June. So it may be gone, unless the public shaming had any effect. 18:32:27 Why don't you email and ask? 18:32:35 See if you get a reply. 18:32:39 `5 w 18:32:44 1/1:brevity//syn. "shortness" \ macedonia//Macedonia is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Taiwan is. \ bird//The Bird is Cruel! \ pastry//A pastry is a sugary confectionery that is customarily eaten after writing an essay. \ bdsm//BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. 18:33:13 and I'm done talking to shachaf. 18:33:25 :-( 18:37:33 `cwlprits bird 18:37:39 shachäf Phantom_Hoovër nortẗi Phantom_Hoovër 18:37:44 `dowg bird 18:37:51 10471:2017-03-21 learn The Bird is Cruel! \ 2180:2013-02-19 learn bird bird bird bird \ 2179:2013-02-19 learn bird is a dinosaur \ 2178:2013-02-19 learn bird bird bird bird 18:37:55 `forget bird 18:37:56 Forget what? 18:38:01 `? canary 18:38:02 A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up. 18:38:04 bird! what's the matter with you? 18:38:17 `cat canary 18:38:18 cat: canary: Permission denied 18:38:41 Remember when we figured out how to delete canary? 18:38:44 It broke everything. 18:38:48 It was great. 18:38:50 I remember 18:38:58 I'm surprised this unreadable one doesn't do the same thing 18:39:03 `stat canary 18:39:03 ​ File: ‘canary’ \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 657446 Links: 1 \ Access: (0000/----------) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2017-05-15 14:57:34.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2017-04-17 19:17:05.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2017-05-15 15:23:19.0000000 18:39:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:40:57 `5 w 18:41:03 1/2:despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ cofridge logic//Cofridge logic is the new HoTT stuff. \ c++//Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. \ victoria//Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest. \ identity function//The identity function 18:41:09 `n 18:41:09 2/2:is a mockingbird. 18:41:14 `cwlprits canary 18:41:20 boil̈y oerjän FireFl̈y FireFl̈y 18:43:21 `? canary 18:43:22 A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up. 18:43:38 CAVE CHICKEN 19:11:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:20:09 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 19:45:31 . o O ( What's the current maximal size of Russell's teapot, say, at 99% confidence? ) 19:54:53 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:05:27 -!- Remavas has joined. 20:23:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:32:07 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:11:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:20:24 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:23:25 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:23:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:31:17 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:04:22 -!- betaveros has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:19:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:20:18 fizzie: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/factory.jpg ... screenshot from a video game (Broken Sword 5, an okay click & point adventure game, better than parts 3 and 4 so far) 22:25:12 Heh. Well, it's iconic. 22:25:19 I played the one set in Paris. 22:25:32 ("Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars – Director's Cut", I think.) 22:27:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:25 "the one set in Paris" is kind of cute... I think they all have a part playing in Paris. 22:37:01 Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that one anyway. 22:39:40 -!- augur has joined. 22:44:24 (the main issue with parts 3 and 4 is the awkward 3D interface... part 5 is back to 2D graphics with painted scenes, and more traditional puzzles (parts 3 and 4 feature some scenes where you need to evade guards, and some sokoban style puzzles... at the same time skimping on the more traditional interactions) 22:44:38 `? ) 22:44:43 ​)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:45:01 . o O ( `learn ) is the missing closing parenthesis, provided here for balance. ) 22:48:37 -!- boily has joined. 22:50:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:00:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:06:20 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 23:08:59 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:09:30 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:10:31 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 23:12:15 `5 w 23:12:20 1/2:wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ hðh//hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photogra 23:13:01 `n 23:13:02 2/2:phs and drawings. \ html//HTML is short for "hope this mess loads". \ 21//21 is both half the answer and a cardgame. The latter is similiar to Bladder-Burst?. 23:13:35 I'm often confused when I read about food on the internet. I don't know enough about food in general, and also it comes with a lot of specialized vocabulary separately in English and Hungarian where I don't know translations nor meanings of lots of words in either language. 23:13:52 So I started to make some notes: first about the type of cereals at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Types_of_cereal 23:13:57 Next I should do the types of nuts/. 23:18:13 wellob_jonas! 23:19:04 helloily (oily like nuts.) 23:19:40 cooking is best done by ear; it has to sound right when doing it. 23:20:24 and imperial units all the way. none of that gram and decilitre shenanigans. 23:20:48 what? no way 23:20:56 metric is useful for cooking 23:21:13 imperial is for fantasy stuff like dungeon corridor widths and minifig sizes 23:21:35 and weights of items in your inventory 23:22:13 you measure foodstuff in metric, which is convenient because most of them are typically packaged in round amounts of metric units (kilograms or liters) 23:22:51 (some actually must be packaged in round amounts by law, some are just packaged that way by custom) 23:23:32 tablespoons, cups, pounds and fahrenheit! 23:24:48 you could perhaps make an argument for teaspoons and tablespoons of spice or salt, yeah, the previous argument doesn't apply to them because you use only small amount at a time 23:24:58 but why cups and pounds? 23:25:33 cups are tremendously useful. quarter, third, half and one cup. it's the same measure for all your ingredients. 23:26:26 pounds are just... anthropocentric? eg. ¼ lb for a meat patty. it's a nice number, easy to remember. 23:27:39 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 23:29:07 -!- yabuti has joined. 23:29:07 -!- yabuti has quit (Excess Flood). 23:29:32 dunno, I don't think it helps more than kilograms 23:30:47 -!- yabuti has joined. 23:30:47 -!- yabuti has quit (Excess Flood). 23:35:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:36:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:36:31 and of course the decimal system helps me make mental calculations, as opposed to the strange conversion ratios like {mile, yard, food, inch, 1/16 inch, 1/1000 inch}, {pound, ounce, grains}, {gallon, pint, fl ounce}, and the confusing multiple similarly named units (there are like four kinds of ounces still commonly in use) 23:37:43 Obviously it used to be even worse in the past, when they had a different measurement system in every region, but you can't blame people for that back when travel was difficult and technology less advanced. 23:38:09 yob_jonas 23:38:20 I think many units people use are backwards. 23:38:33 For example, speed should be measured in time/distance instead of distance/time 23:38:47 Bandwidth should be measured in time/bytes rather than bytes/time 23:40:08 It's not obvious which kind of "league" Jules Verne uses as measurement units in multiple of his books. Journey to the center of earth seems to use the 3898 meter long French league. 23:42:43 shachaf: bandwidth in information per time is reasonable imo because it's additive that way. the problem with bandwidth units is that people use too many units for information including bits, bytes, 512 byte blocks/sectors, kilobits, kilobytes, kibibits, kibibytes, megabits, megabytes, mebibytes, gigabits, gigabytes, gibibytes, terabytes. 23:43:01 And sometimes it's not clear whether someone means bits or bytes, and whether they mean decimal or binary. 23:43:22 If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X 23:43:45 You pay litres of petrol to get kilometres of distance, so you should use the unit litres/kilometre 23:44:19 It would make the abbreviations more clear if people started using octets instead of bytes even in English. 23:45:08 shachaf: as for fuel usage, that varies by country, some countries like Hungary use liters per hundred kilometer, some use kilometers per ten liter or something like that (I'm not sure about the exponent of 10 there), some use miles per gallons. 23:45:44 Never mind the constant factor. I meant l/100km 23:45:48 For prices, I've never seen the price in the divisor used for anything. 23:46:07 I considered saying "octet" above, but I said "byte" so that I'm ambiguous about the constant factor. 23:46:42 Hmm, interesting. 23:47:00 gallons per dollar? 23:47:10 No, you should use dollars per gallon. 23:47:17 sh: I'm fine with 8-bit only bytes, the problem is when on commercial labels "B" can stand for bits or bytes and you can't tell which. Some packagings even write "KG" for kilogram, which is terrible. 23:47:30 shachaf: Because you pay gallons to get dollars? 23:47:41 No, you pay dollars to get gallons. 23:47:47 So you should use $/gal 23:48:01 That's exactly opposite to the rule you said. 23:48:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:48:14 "If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X." 23:48:18 So it is. 23:48:31 And I spent such a long time thinking about it, too. Uselessly. 23:48:33 how much is a gallon anyway? /me looks it up 23:48:36 Let's see. 23:48:44 UK and US gallons are different, I think? 23:48:56 (Which makes "mpg" even worse.) 23:49:11 fizzie: yes, it's one of those multiple versions of units tied to "ounces" 23:49:21 wob_jonas: The convenient thing is that l/gal and NIS/USD are pretty close. 23:49:34 So you can compare .il and .us petrol prices directly, depending on the exchange rate. 23:49:38 huh? what's a NIS? 23:49:43 Israeli currency. 23:49:46 oh, Israeli shekel, right 23:49:54 OK, let's see. 23:50:19 I was trying to read up on this when renting a car and trying to guesstimate how often I'd need to fill it up. People just post unqualified "mpg" numbers. 23:50:29 gal/mile means you pay gallons to get miles 23:50:39 So if you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit X/Y 23:50:48 Which is waht I originally wanted to write. 23:50:52 oh N is for new 23:50:59 (is it still new?) 23:51:13 Apparently I should say ILS instead of NIS 23:51:24 I never remember which one to use. 23:51:34 "also known as simply the Israeli shekel and formerly known as the New Israeli Sheqel (NIS)," 23:51:44 I guess it's not new anymore. 23:51:53 It's been in use since before I was born. 23:53:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:53:33 Anyway. 23:53:46 You use $/gal because you pay $ to get gal 23:54:02 You use gal/mile because you pay gal to get mile 23:54:14 You can even multiply them together to figure out $/mile 23:54:22 shachaf: ILS is the ISO style international abbrev, similar to USD, CAD, GBP, EUR, HUF, etc. NIS is conventional domestic abbrev, similar to US$, CA$, £, €, Ft, which you use locally. 23:54:48 Is it? 23:55:25 when commerce gets international and people ordering stuff on Ebay in various foreign currencies, it's better to use the former 23:56:39 shachaf: the trick is that the three-letter currency codes usually start with the two-letter ISO country code (except EUR), which in turn usually agrees with top-level domain names (except .uk) 23:57:01 Why do you say NIS is conventional domestic abbrev? 23:57:21 they should have used DEE for the euro 23:59:02 It was only in the past couple of years that I realized why the symbol ₪ is used for NIS. 23:59:14 why is it used? 23:59:36 `unidecode ₪ 23:59:37 ​[U+20AA NEW SHEQEL SIGN] 23:59:45 It looks like the acronym ש"ח