< 1494201669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1494201694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494201694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1494201694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494201849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1494201872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494201873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1494201873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494202029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1494202052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494202053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1494202053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494202149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1494202172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494202172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1494202172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494202331 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1494202332 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :te sting//This is horrible? < 1494203284 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494203548 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1494203692 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494204087 0 :DHeadshot_!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494204112 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494204182 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494204195 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, boily, I play Go < 1494204208 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1494204276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1494204615 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow it seems that some pictures will be compressed better with PNG if a small window size is used, and some work better with larger window sizes. Do you know why? < 1494205333 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494205716 0 :Guest12099!~IRIX@spiritofcontradiction.eu QUIT :Changing host < 1494205716 0 :Guest12099!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber JOIN :#esoteric < 1494205718 0 :Guest12099!?@? NICK :JX7P < 1494205886 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY! NEW GAME +! I love when games have new game + < 1494205988 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish more games would have new game + tho < 1494206002 0 :DHeadshot_!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494206084 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although is not something that interests me much. < 1494206133 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just prefer to have different options that can be set. < 1494207017 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494208495 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1494208496 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey//cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. < 1494208524 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg cpressey < 1494208531 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3512:2013-08-28 sed -i \'s/mouse/mousse/\' wisdom/cpressey \ 2973:2013-05-29 learn cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mouse. \ 2967:2013-05-28 learn cpressey has invented more esolangs than you can shake a stick at. Also he\'s older than the universe hth. < 1494208624 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`4 w < 1494208629 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. It sometimes pretends to be a human. \ asternology//Asternology is the art of predicting what happened in the past. \ impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database. \ heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. < 1494208640 0 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1494208677 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dingo dango dongo ♪ < 1494208716 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. you've been more warrigaling than tswetting lately. back to your roots? < 1494208773 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read _Mathematics Made Difficult_? < 1494209097 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/b7i3u/mathematics_made_difficult_pdf/ < 1494209113 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that one. < 1494209123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think there's file smaller than 20MB with the same content. < 1494209502 0 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: sump'm like that. < 1494209517 0 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I've temporarily switched to a different client. < 1494209885 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slbkbs.org/math-diff-2-4.txt < 1494209896 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book is too good. < 1494209967 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494209993 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494210282 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( I wonder if 'https' should be given a shorter alias- such as 'htts' or 'htps'- so that link shorteners like it more ) < 1494210901 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :httppavellon[0]. < 1494210943 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about using httpseverywhere < 1494211031 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "https" is fine; it is not too long. < 1494211061 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they wanted to write "httpsecure" then it would be too long, though) < 1494211124 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "hypertexttransferprotocolsecure:"? < 1494211307 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SecuredHyperDocumentElementTransferProtocolBuilderFactoryAdapter < 1494211605 0 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.245.222 QUIT :Quit: MICHELIN CHICKEN < 1494211960 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494212170 0 :spiette!~spiette@216-246-240-74.cpe.distributel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494212226 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494212334 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494213009 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494213306 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494213747 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1494213897 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1494213900 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07mibicoin 08calcoin 09creptimisplcoin 02redclcoin 06bfinjaquatingcoin 13gencoin 04mulacoin 07trindcoin 08cablystackmildcoin 09bookcoin 02unland.nexpcoin 06kolmonozcoin 13dracoin 04nubinocoin 07stocoin 08pograissigcoin 09arbazcoin 02autobencecoin 06tfriecoin 13eatcoin < 1494213901 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ☝ < 1494213940 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fried chicken coin < 1494213942 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coin-of-the-woods < 1494213989 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, unicode has been jammed up < 1494213995 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🖢 < 1494214003 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🖠 < 1494214007 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many jams < 1494214062 0 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-52-10-77-75.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay coins < 1494214063 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494214091 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🍄 < 1494214869 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494215300 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494216191 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494216313 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494217468 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1494218793 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up list of several new GURPS spells such as Red Shift, Blue Shift, Heavy Gravity, Seek Air, Seek Fire, Write, Smite Mages, False Aura, Delay Spell, Berserk, Vampire Transfer, Mirror Link, Feign Death, and others. Do you like this? < 1494218825 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do *you* like it? < 1494218868 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, kind of. I will have to see if it is good enough. < 1494219997 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote about some perks and options to allow linking spells to body part other than hands, such as bite, feet, striker, and spines. For Missile spells there is also the perks for additional options being breath attacks and gaze attacks. < 1494220003 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also spells that complement each other (such as Red Shift and Blue Shift); each defaults to the other at -5. < 1494220299 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494221893 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write the new spell too if you have the good idea please. < 1494222959 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that farbfeld is simpler than Netpbm and that Hamster archive simpler than tape archive. Isn't it? < 1494223050 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a common complaint about netpbm < 1494223054 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too complex < 1494223087 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, looking to me too. That is why Hunhold invented farbfeld, and why I use it. < 1494223532 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming you also fancy their beautifully designed video format that can store a whole 113s in 100gb < 1494223537 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no audio tho < 1494223582 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see this document I wrote http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffpng it list all of the options of the PNG encoder. I added some since last time too. < 1494223693 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the NetPBM features are rather *odd* for an image format, and also really easy to not implement. < 1494223704 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the header can have comments. < 1494223708 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, I know is odd < 1494223717 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, a single file can have multiple images in it! < 1494223736 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds easy to implement if you use a c compiler hth < 1494223746 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1494223750 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of a different format. < 1494223770 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xbm < 1494223770 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can have multiple pages. I have written dvipbm which does that though; you can use it to rasterize all of the pages and then send to printer driver in order to print. < 1494223795 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you just have to ignore everything from # to \n < 1494223799 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard can that be < 1494223828 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf TOPIC #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1494223883 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did write my own rasterizer program to make a print out, because I did not find the ones that come with the computer to be suitable. Do you like this?) < 1494224226 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the express mode of ffpng compresses better than some other PNG encoders, although not always. An option to copy chunks from another PNG file is still missing though. < 1494224342 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if any picture compression format has options to store the picture rotated or flipped in case that would improve the compression? < 1494224471 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG does sometimes compress better when the picture is rotated or flipped or mirrored. < 1494224501 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document of FLIF seem not completed so I cannot see if it has any such feature or not. < 1494224580 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I've not heard of such a thing. < 1494224589 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could just be ignorance, but still. < 1494224957 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494225016 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494225072 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Mr2001 < 1494225073 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13Mr2001: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.) < 1494225255 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yellow looks pretty bad in Freenode webchat. < 1494225262 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1494225271 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to remember to avoid relcome for those cases. < 1494225314 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1494225319 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` quote zzo38 | shuf -n1 < 1494225320 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :177) Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. < 1494225403 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a text-based adventure game recently. < 1494225410 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, I was just thinking about playing one. < 1494225425 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I played one or two games that involved clicking on words and were pretty linear. < 1494225472 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played VA-11 Hall-A yet? it invoves clicking on words < 1494225526 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1494225527 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up some text adventure game using TAVERN. The standard adventure include file is not yet completed (and is hardly done) but hopefully can be done without entirely doing by myself only. < 1494225532 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a fan of clicking. < 1494225561 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it also involves mixing drinks < 1494225583 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of text adventures and esolangs, do you like this: http://inky.org/if/snap/index.html < 1494225758 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is HQ9+ for interactive fiction? < 1494225777 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also for running HQ9+ programs. < 1494225791 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1494225923 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already written several excellent games. < 1494225929 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait to find out what they're about. < 1494225941 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really does make programming a snap! < 1494225974 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a wiki page about it on esolangs.org < 1494225997 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem very interesting as a language, though. < 1494226007 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1494226030 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe I haven't explored it enough yet. < 1494226043 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a joke language < 1494226058 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured that much. < 1494226068 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIL is more interesting but probably doesn't fit the definition of esoteric < 1494226072 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it's a joke with multiple levels. < 1494226156 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Inform 6 once. < 1494226160 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIL seem like good. I don't know any programming in ZIL, but I do know ZAP. < 1494226166 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I tried Inform 7 and didn't like it. < 1494226179 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was more than a decade ago, so who knows. < 1494226186 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new VM is TAVERN, see if you like that one? < 1494226220 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inform 7 is pretty sweet. if you didn't like it then, you probably won't like it now, though. < 1494226230 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't text outdated? < 1494226236 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like read only programming languages such as Inform 7 < 1494226243 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video is where it's at, if you want to maximize user engagement. < 1494226246 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video and photographs. < 1494226253 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing people notice most about it is that it looks like English, but IMO what makes it interesting is that it introduces new concepts that work well in the domain. < 1494226259 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pictures with text overlaid in Impact font. < 1494226288 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of concepts? < 1494226301 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, I did play a text-based adventure game recently! < 1494226310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what it was called. It was very short, and it had a ghost. < 1494226314 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relations, object description expressions, scenes, rulebooks < 1494226319 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an entry to a competition. < 1494226338 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a few Z-machine implementations including ZORKMID and JSZM, and started writing one for Famicom. However, there are probably some things I should rewrite, such as maybe the instruction dispatch loop should be put into the zero page to use self-modifying codes. < 1494226346 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you know the one I mean? < 1494226349 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This implementation for Famicom is called Famizork) < 1494226355 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any Famicom programming? < 1494226356 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Famicom? < 1494226361 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1494226436 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr2001: I only recently realized about Spider and Web that gur ernfba lbh pna'g fnl "gnatb" hagvy gur evtug zbzrag vf gung gur ibvpr zbqhyr vfa'g ba gur gnoyr hagvy gung zbzrag. < 1494226443 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should have been obvious in retrospect. < 1494226456 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't read if you haven't played the game, I guess.) < 1494226457 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might see a statement like "if an evil man (called the villain) carries a weapon (called the sidearm) that contains at least 6 unused bullets, ...", which searches the world model for such a set of related objects and captures them in variables < 1494226516 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think these abstractions merit a new language? < 1494226518 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might. < 1494226548 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the goal was to make writing IF more like writing a story and less like writing a program < 1494226558 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I've wondered about is what a language that could be used on cards in a game like Magic: The Gathering would be like. < 1494226575 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of stuff about Magic: the Gathering like that too. < 1494226588 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about it being like English -- in fact I'd prefer not, though you can generate English text from it -- but it would need to be a very odd language to support the sorts of things Magic: The Gathering cards do. < 1494226595 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any card can change pretty much anything. < 1494226609 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rulebooks are pretty good for that < 1494226612 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I thought is to use a AST that might look something like: [:counter [:target :spell]] < 1494226617 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started porting Fluxx to I7 once < 1494226631 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't have to be exactly that game -- I think you can simplify it significantly if you're willing to break backwards compatibility and have less complicated but still interesting interactions.) < 1494226720 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I thought of is to invent a new literate programming language for writing the rules, and then write the rules using that in a mathematically precise way. < 1494226722 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rulebook is basically an array of functions that are sorted through some complex and overrideable logic at compile time, that can each have conditions that check whether they apply to the current situation, and can change the state for future rules or exit the rulebook with some outcome < 1494226779 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1494226792 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is the use of literate programming; you can now make a book to write the rules of the game, which is the same book as the program which is the implementation, which make rules more clearly.) < 1494226794 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1494226864 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for MtG, you might have a rulebook for each phase of the turn (or probably some finer grain), and the definition of each card could contribute rules to various rulebooks and define any ordering relationships < 1494226919 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played that game in a while. I'm not up to date on all the latest innovations. < 1494226965 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had other ideas about rewriting rules of Magic: the Gathering though anyways, including concept of "persistent properties", which include initial text, owner, and kind. Text is meaning the AST. < 1494226988 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1494226993 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:freefull//FreeFull the Unpronounceable is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ syntax//Syntax is just a subset of grammar. \ yorick//We know nothing about yorick, alas. \ welp//welp is humid kelp, and not at all related to toes, their hairs, and generic requests for TWHes and TDHes. \ ol//OL stands for Origina < 1494226997 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1494226998 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:l Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList. < 1494227007 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr2001: Do you know any Famicom programming? < 1494227009 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits ol < 1494227017 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachäf < 1494227020 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope < 1494227021 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1494227035 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Famicom is approximately NES, right? < 1494227046 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, it uses the same chipset. < 1494227050 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget ol < 1494227052 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1494227060 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1494227065 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:glados//Hello, and again, welcome to the Aperture Science Computer Aided Internet Relay Chat & Enrichment Center. Please enjoy your stay at #esoteric, because you will never leave. \ piet//6Piet 4is 7a 8really 9colourful 2programming 13language. \ of//Of this incident we shall never speak again. \ tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so plea < 1494227068 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1494227069 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:se stop using them. That would help. \ rntz//rntz is a classically-trained logician known for his constructive criticism. < 1494227096 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ it is a copy of the official rules of Magic: the Gathering; they also have on there all of the changes to the rules since Ravnica. < 1494227106 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can see what has been changed each time. < 1494227117 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't play in Ravnica. I first started playing in Return to Ravnica. < 1494227135 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since some time ago, I have looked at every change. < 1494227137 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ravnica < 1494227138 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name. < 1494227141 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They have that too. < 1494227188 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see on http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/rules-changes/ the lists of all changes between any version and the previous version. < 1494227211 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this is pretty good. < 1494227217 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once upon a time I knew the rules of this game reasonably well. < 1494227227 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a Rules Advisor certification. < 1494227228 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They also link to the official explanations from Wizards of the Coast, in the cases where this is available.) < 1494227233 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I didn't renew it. < 1494227240 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it looks like it's been discocntinued. < 1494227305 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not actually played Magic: the Gathering in many years, but have still kept track of all of the rule changes. < 1494227313 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr2001: Did you play Factorio? < 1494227338 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That game is TG < 1494227372 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1494227377 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3://08ev14eryone: Welcome to the international 12hub for esoteric14 pro03grammin11g 05l08anguage design and depl02oy06ment! F12or mor11e info14rmat12ion, 05check out 09our wiki: h03ttp04://eso12langs.org/07w02iki/Mai09n_Pag06e.14 (For the other k08ind of esoterica, tr05y #e07soteric 05on irc06.dal.net.) \ a < 1494227393 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1494227394 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:tm//An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info. \ palate//Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink. \ hand injury//Hand injuries are surprisingly common among webcomic writers, see eg. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2314 or http:// < 1494227406 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`xxd wisdom/spout < 1494227407 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxd: wisdom/spout: No such file or directory < 1494227411 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1494227415 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`xxd tmp/spout < 1494227416 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000: 032f 2f03 3038 6576 0331 3465 7279 6f6e .//.08ev.14eryon \ 0000010: 653a 2057 656c 636f 6d65 2074 6f20 7468 e: Welcome to th \ 0000020: 6520 696e 7465 726e 6174 696f 6e61 6c20 e international \ 0000030: 0331 3268 7562 2066 6f72 2065 736f 7465 .12hub for esote \ 0000040: 7269 6303 3134 2070 726f 0330 3367 7261 ric.14 pro.03gra \ 00000 < 1494227432 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '' | xxd < 1494227432 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000: 030a .. < 1494227443 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits  < 1494227450 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rouj̈o Rouj̈o < 1494227457 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1494227465 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare this too confusing. < 1494227467 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget  < 1494227469 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1494227511 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1494227512 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯//¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary < 1494227520 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also invented many of my own Magic: the Gathering cards, including both proper and Un-cards < 1494227592 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you make up some of such thing too please? < 1494227612 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1494227621 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you invent any planeswalker cards? < 1494227652 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had some ideas but not been able to make anything that seems reasonable. < 1494227684 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had ideas including even Aura planeswalkers and planeswalker lands.) < 1494227704 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a planeswalker with plainswalk? < 1494227741 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not done, although it could be, if it were a planeswalker creature. (If is not a creature then plainswalk is not so helpful) < 1494227764 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, another card might make it into a creature. < 1494227779 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that too. < 1494227826 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can make the list http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php?do=list of the card I made up (although I also had many additional ideas not listed on there), and also the Un-cards game is http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/uncards.txt too. < 1494227840 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a long time I thought the way you cast a spell in Magic: The Gathering was to put karma into your karma pool, and then cast the spell with it. < 1494227890 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is how you thought. OK < 1494227907 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was wrong. < 1494227931 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make up some cards that, to be used, require people to learn obscure rules. < 1494227963 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they already exist, so there's precedent. :) < 1494227984 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have sometimes come up with such ideas, although not really for that reason; it just happens to turn out obscurely! < 1494227986 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, by design. < 1494228022 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is what you mean. That does not seems the things to base the design on to me, I think? < 1494228026 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you make up a card that requires the player to know this rule? < 1494228037 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can do it as an interaction of a few cards. < 1494228062 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it turns out obscurely though I don't really care so much I think it is OK. < 1494228133 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like any of this custom cards? Maybe you can make up a new one too. < 1494228158 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should use Hack instead of PHP for your custom card website. < 1494228230 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeux Agem? < 1494228233 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is already PHP though. I wanted to use SQL, but, it doesn't do as a CGI so instead is a PHP code that includes some SQL codes. This SQL database can be downloaded too though if you want to download it and query it by your own SQL commands. < 1494228234 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potion of Confusing?! < 1494228354 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is that a question? It does not look like a very good question to me. < 1494228361 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If it is any player's birthday today, that player wins the game." < 1494228376 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if it's the birthday of more than one player? < 1494228403 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then all of those player are win the game. < 1494228440 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wins the ante in that case? < 1494228514 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rule would be probably that you end in a draw, and so the owners of ante is not affected in that case I would think. < 1494228588 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494228602 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although rules about ante is another rule I wanted to change anyways; the current rule has many kinds of problems. I have seen one suggestion where the ante zone is shared across subgames, and I like that idea, although it does not fix everything, I still like that idea; someone even explained a way to use that feature to make a puzzle!) < 1494228614 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "Everybody is the Winner!", though? < 1494228666 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose there is no answer. Or perhaps those objects are then having multiple owners. < 1494228727 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the Un-cards are just unanswerable. < 1494228768 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if you played an Un-card enchantment that said "All Un-cards are answerable."? < 1494228836 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you would have to make up a strange answer, I suppose. I don't know! < 1494228861 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1494228978 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-210-115.omni.lt JOIN :#esoteric < 1494229029 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-210-115.omni.lt QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494229290 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no proper rule in Un-cards, only improper rules. But, many people have tried to argue how R&D's Secret Lair affects many things. There is something I thought of with using with the old Lightning Bolt, that it seem nobody on Gatherer has ever considered, which is to use it to damage all nontoken permanents that are creatures or planeswalkers. < 1494229371 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I said a function was a "proper injection", would you know what I meant? < 1494229444 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, at least not yet. < 1494229458 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a function which is an injection but not a bijection. < 1494229460 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In context it might be clear though. < 1494229484 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think of that, but still I did not know for sure. < 1494229525 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I said "proper monomorphism"? < 1494229572 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again I am not sure, but would try to think of something similar. < 1494229620 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I said "proper subobject"? < 1494229624 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In context it may become clear though; I think if you used "proper injection" in a context like that it would be clear what it is meaning. < 1494229651 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know quite all of the mathematics, and I don't know what "subobject" is being < 1494229656 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But, I can look it up) < 1494229662 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494229675 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/subobject < 1494229682 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, it does not matter so much that I will not know.) < 1494229699 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually think a subobject is a monomorphism. But it's actually an equivalence class of monomorphisms. Why is that? < 1494229710 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean an isomorphism class. < 1494229835 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it, and I do not know the answer of your question. < 1494229852 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like subobjects? < 1494229864 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially now that I am a bit tired, I don't know. I don't know that one either right now.) < 1494229934 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like quotient objects? < 1494229975 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These questions are I just don't know at this time; I am a bit tired now, it is late time now. < 1494229998 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1494230080 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did get recently a book from library, which is The Art of Computer Programming volume 7 fascicle 0. I like this book. < 1494230105 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find any errors? < 1494230122 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find errors, you can get a check from the author. < 1494230127 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got one once. < 1494230129 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. < 1494230144 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do know about that payment for errors. < 1494230154 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine wasn't for an error, though. < 1494230170 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :He thought it wasn't an error, and then he called up Ken Thompson and he agreed that it wasn't an error. < 1494230185 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then he put in a «"rant"», and I got a check for that. < 1494230232 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should fuzz TeX with afl and see whether you can get a check < 1494230295 0 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-52-10-77-75.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1494232309 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494232353 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494232612 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494234599 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:5052:30ce:dddf:ae8a JOIN :#esoteric < 1494234975 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494235248 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1494237606 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1494239446 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494239738 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1494242552 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494243631 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1494243631 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 081000Z 26008KT 30SM FEW015 FEW035 BKN200 02/M01 A2974 RMK CF1SC1CC5 CF TR SLP074 < 1494243660 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1494243660 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 081020Z 30011KT 9999 FEW045 BKN050 05/M05 Q1028 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 29011KT < 1494243671 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KATL < 1494243672 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KATL 080952Z 28004KT 10SM CLR 11/06 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T01110061 < 1494244650 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494245526 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1494246009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494246284 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: MITOCHONDRIAL CHICKEN < 1494246728 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494247022 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494247401 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:5052:30ce:dddf:ae8a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494247493 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1494247590 0 :Guest31866!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:5052:30ce:dddf:ae8a JOIN :#esoteric < 1494247854 0 :Guest31866!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:5052:30ce:dddf:ae8a QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1494248680 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's happening < 1494250816 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494252800 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1494254033 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1494254263 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1494254383 0 :ineiros_!ineiros@217.30.184.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494259912 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494259990 0 :jameseb!~jameseb_@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1494260042 0 :sdhand!~sdhandtmp@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494260098 0 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494260133 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1494260157 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest32206 < 1494260793 0 :Guest32206!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Changing host < 1494260793 0 :Guest32206!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1494260793 0 :Guest32206!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1494263306 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1494263440 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello rdococ < 1494263541 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494263597 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1494263772 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: ? < 1494263814 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1494264562 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1494264687 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Braingolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51881&oldid=51855 5* 03Mayube 5* (+1007) 10/* Operators */ < 1494264842 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1494264941 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Client Quit < 1494264953 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1494265087 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfai9enlkgez76.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1494265407 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1494265967 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1494265992 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my new kind of the VLQ? The new kind is like the ordinary VLQ but if the high bit is set then you must subtract 127 instead of subtract 128. < 1494266078 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1494266127 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some numbers can encode shorter and the redundancy of leading zeroes is avoided too. < 1494266152 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just talking to someone about some sort of encoding the other day. < 1494266171 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was this: https://github.com/mortehu/libcolumnfile/blob/master/src/columnfile.h < 1494266174 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1494266186 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look < 1494266281 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can be good for some kinds of data perhaps. < 1494266426 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has the redundant encoding though. < 1494267382 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494267766 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :127? why not 126? < 1494268039 0 :Mr2001!18071b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.7.27.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds equivalent to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-length_quantity#Removing_Redundancy < 1494268147 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it does. < 1494268254 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1494268672 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, it is < 1494268782 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wah, there's a level without a grill < 1494268900 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr-dead-end.jpg < 1494268921 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's not hidden behind the column or anything? < 1494268927 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I have half a dozen unsolved levels left on *that* island. < 1494268931 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not. < 1494268947 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get this running again. < 1494269013 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess those glowing pixels do something, I have not seen those anywhere before, I think. < 1494269358 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that half dozen is actually 9 or 10 < 1494269558 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494269869 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@24.7.67.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494269999 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494270133 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cat < 1494270134 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats are cool, but should be illegal. < 1494270260 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to design a programming language where the grammar can't be parsed to an Abstract Syntax Tree, but rather an Abstract Syntax Digraph < 1494270739 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494271109 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how that is going to work, although RDF does something a bit similar (although not quite). < 1494271766 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you could glue paper strips together < 1494271839 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Perhaps < 1494271862 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know how to represent it in a computer, the issue is just how to make a proper syntax :P < 1494272015 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494272220 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I looked up that puzzle because I'm not on that island yet and can't run the game in the near future, but now I'm disappointed that I looked it up because it's a good puzzle. < 1494272302 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea or two, but first I want to find out whether solving the remaining puzzles on the island changes anything... < 1494272318 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which I'll get around to eventually. < 1494272362 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1494272371 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thanks for the info that it is a puzzle < 1494272419 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sorry for tempting you to spoil it for you... < 1494272429 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...though I didn't intend that. < 1494273002 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1494273222 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494273723 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1494274289 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494274336 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494274870 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1494274892 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494276621 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494276706 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I summon you < 1494277173 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hhubtvequyjfonqg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1494277186 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lamggfbwspqowtjs JOIN :#esoteric < 1494277263 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I made a list of some of the composite modes in my Farbfeld Utilities program: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-composite (There are a lot more!) Do you think this is good? You can tell me if there is other stuff too that should be had, and see whether or not it is already implemented but not documented, or if it is not implemented either. < 1494277295 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: why would you do such a thing? < 1494277437 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the ability to treat the alpha channel as the depth buffer if you want to, as well. < 1494277459 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is another mode to treat each pixel as a quaternion. < 1494278082 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that docs, are these only the special modes that aren't composed from a way to handle alpha and a way to handle opacity? < 1494278293 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1494278362 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1494278439 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494278620 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494278842 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lamggfbwspqowtjs QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494278878 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1494279331 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1494279333 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome.bork//Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: . (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon IFnet oor DELnet.) < 1494279345 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work < 1494279352 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? yorick < 1494279353 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know nothing about yorick, alas. < 1494279360 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hilighted me today < 1494279369 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, that. < 1494279372 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`4 w < 1494279374 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: These are some of them, anyways. The other ones with numbers 64 and higher are composed of different options for handling opacity and handling colours and so on, and I have not listed any of those. < 1494279377 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:istr//istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc. \ eurovision//Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing. \ citation//Citation needed \ beethoven's ninth symphony//Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files. < 1494279410 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know how the document should be written for such thing, then you could add those modes. < 1494279440 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right. those ones are combined from a duff-porter mode that handles the transparency, and a composition mode that handles the color value < 1494279490 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes. Those ones you are talking about are all numbered 64 and higher. < 1494279552 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ykhfqxotpflbrnrk JOIN :#esoteric < 1494279660 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't quite get how those work. the low bits control the composition modes, that's clear, and those dense few lines in the definitions of F and FF somehow handle the duff-porter thing. < 1494279667 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But aren't there like 16 duff-porter modes? < 1494279672 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or only 8? < 1494279677 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me look this up. < 1494279706 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't only duff-porter modes; it includes many other kinds too. < 1494279729 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 12... wtf < 1494279833 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, there are 2*2*3 modes: one bit controls whether the places where the destination image is transparent should be transparent or get the color of the source image, one bit controls the places where the source image is transparent, < 1494279865 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one trit controls whether the places where both images are opaque becomes transparent, or get composed, or get composed in reverse. < 1494280014 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of these, the first two bits are controlled by bits 9 and 10 in the mode in ff-composite, < 1494280375 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you don't have a swapped composition mode; but if you clear bit 8 and set the low bits to 2, that should make it behave like the duff-porter modes that clear the intersection. < 1494280418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, explain nom to me pls < 1494280475 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I based it on the description that is used in the SVG documentation. < 1494280581 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as for the low bits, 0 and 1 are source and destination, 3 is saturating add (useful for composing an antialiased polygon mash to a black background if you know the polygons are pairwise non-intersecting), 23 and 28 are subtract, < 1494280656 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(low bits) is darken only, 7 is lighten only, 4 is multiply, 5 is screen, and there's more. < 1494280667 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1494280672 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should edit that linked wiki page if you think you know how to best describe them. < 1494280682 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg citation < 1494280689 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10799:2017-04-22 learn Citation needed \ 6816:2016-02-11 le/rn citation/needed < 1494280718 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not comfortable with reading your code and I'm lazy to test this stuff now. I'd probably make lots of errors. < 1494280743 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1494280760 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if mistakes are made it is not too bad since they can be fixed. < 1494281066 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1494281109 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which ff utility generates a picture with a uniform argb color, given the color and the size as inputs? < 1494281169 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use ff-gradient with the width, height, "h", and the color. < 1494281194 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use ff-chess with the color twice. There are other possibilities too. < 1494281199 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. That can be useful as a compositing background < 1494281232 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although if you want the usual kind of composition against a solid background, ff-back may be better. < 1494281324 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I want composition of multiple smaller images to a larger solid background, the background might be opaque of some color or transparent. < 1494281346 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff-back doesn't help, because it can't enlarge an image < 1494281357 0 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-52-10-77-75.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I haven't used nom, sorry < 1494281359 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case then yes, just using ff-gradient or ff-chess to make the background can help. < 1494281361 0 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-52-10-77-75.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using it for something? < 1494281394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started on that cs171 course for the sake of doing something < 1494281422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 10 seconds into writing an objfile parser i was overwhelmed with the thought that "surely this is why we invented general abstract parser nonsense" < 1494281457 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ff-bright is the one that does gamma correction. < 1494281497 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation has a list with short descriptions (not all of the individual documents per programs exist yet though, but some do). < 1494281503 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1494281541 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still mostly feel like I don't want to spend much on ff utils, because ImageMagick does almost everything with an interface that I find more convenient, and for the few things missing, I'd rather fix ImageMagick when I need it, since it already has lots of useful APIs. < 1494281559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my brief experience with rust the #1 problem is that there is the obvious way of doing it, and a shorter, cleaner, more robust way that you'll be able to figure out after reading just a few more docs < 1494281590 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ImageMagick can have things to be fixed too, so if you know how to contribute to that then you can do that too. < 1494281623 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't necessarily have to contribute (as in, send code back to the mainstream), just use their apis. < 1494281735 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. (Still, if there is something missing, it could help to mention to them at least. Same as true with my farbfeld programs; it could help to mention at least if something seem missing. One thing is that I think ImageMagick does not even support farbfeld, although it seem to me that for completeness it probably should.) < 1494281745 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while there are some stupid problems with ImageMagick, as in, sometimes their programs are buggy for no apparent reason, they're just not enough problems to override the convenience I get most of the time. < 1494281764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't imagemagick have some really ridiculous security hole < 1494281797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes https://imagetragick.com/ < 1494281804 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: many programs that handle like hundreds of formats with various plugins from different sources have security holes. I don't know why people pick on IM in particular. < 1494281812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stand-out work in the wonderful medium of vuln branding < 1494281826 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the program does what you need to do then you can use that and it can work. However, I write program using farbfeld instead, and now it can be another alternative. < 1494281830 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can hate all the browsers or mail agents that let you open files from the internet with default-assigned applications instead. < 1494281873 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: And it can avoid that problem too because the programs to alter the pictures are different from the program to encode/decode, and each one only does one, so it avoids that, at least. < 1494281891 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, you only need to download and compile the stuff you need, instead of everything.) < 1494281895 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: also, in practice, I've seen ffmpeg misbehave in way more serious ways for untrusted input files than I've seen ImageMagick do so. < 1494281911 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may depend on how you use them of course. < 1494281960 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used ffmpeg so I don't know, although I also haven't tried using improper input files with ImageMagick either, so I don't know that either. < 1494281971 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IM can be configured easily for which plugins to use, and for each input, I can tell what format to expect, in which case it won't try another plugin. < 1494282020 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know it can be specified for ImageMagick what format to use. < 1494282043 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, it might be because I open video files only in ffmpeg (IM can open them with the ffmpeg plugin too, but only if the whole raw data fits in virtual memory, which is not a typical use case), whereas I open images in both, < 1494282095 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1494282102 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and video formats are more prone to problems because people never bother to use newer image formats than age old jpeg and png, but they do all sorts of new video formats with new more efficient hardware-optimized encoders and decoders all the time, so it's no surprise we get bugs in those. < 1494282150 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people distributed images in all sorts of rare formats and I tried to open those, then sure, I would get the same problems. But I only get images in rare formats when they're raw images straight from consumer cameras. < 1494282204 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like people to use newer image formats, but it's not easy to make people change what works. < 1494282238 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by "newer", I mean 15 year old formats as opposed to 30 year old ones) < 1494282253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there even any newer image formats < 1494282253 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least. ideally even develop newer ones.) < 1494282266 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: sure. a good one is JPEG2000. < 1494282281 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of FLIF, and have had some of my own ideas too for making a compressed pictures format too < 1494282304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems an obvious case where there's no serious pressure towards more efficient image transfer < 1494282315 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course there are all sorts of new image formats that aren't really intended for final distribution, but mainly for a single image editor, but those don't count here.) < 1494282361 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: this is mostly under control for the people who make browsers. if the major browsers decide to support a video format or an image format, then people will use it. < 1494282380 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is then also farbfeld, which also (in my opinion) aren't really intended for final distribution either, but not only for a single image editor but for all image editors! < 1494282406 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but currently they don't support anything but jpeg and png and gif and a few older ones that are obsoleted by those < 1494282432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose gifs were ubiquitous until a couple of years ago and are only slowly being displaced < 1494282440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so image stuff really does move slow < 1494282444 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure. IM has two formats intended for only IM too. gimp has its own save format, and so does corel's two image editors and adobe's two image editors and whatever. < 1494282473 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: gifs these days are mostly used as a sort of video replacement. people no longer use gifs for static images, because png is better for that. < 1494282486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1494282492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're terrible for encoding video < 1494282506 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although they are intended only for those programs; farbfeld can be use for hopefully any encoder/decoder/editors rather than only one. < 1494282620 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and obviously imagemagick and ffmpeg have plugins for lots of image format, and so does gimp and krita and the adobe and corel editors, to various extents, < 1494282667 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they certainly do. Someone even made a farbfeld plugin for use with GIMP, but I think is not very good because it can only read/write files and not pipes. < 1494282669 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they're missing plugins, then you chain two different programs with some raw format between them, only you sometimes have to handle metadata by hand in that case. < 1494282710 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the same thing happens with sound and video too. I've chained different image software, different video software, and different audio software at least once. < 1494282746 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WebP is a modern image format. < 1494282768 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, there's some truth in that < 1494282772 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the things I did intend to add in future into the PNG encoder is to be able to use metadata from another PNG file. < 1494282775 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good afternizzie < 1494282801 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me that FLIF is work better than WebP though, isn't it? < 1494282822 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that some video formats are modern image formats too. < 1494282887 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, WebP can do lossy as well. No idea how lossless WebP and FLIF compare. < 1494282888 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but webp isn't _yet_ supported by major browsers, right? it's just a good candidate that might be in the future < 1494282911 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all major browsers, no. < 1494282929 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think Mozilla may have abandoned their plans. < 1494282953 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there software yet that lets me compress images to webp in such a way that a small part (a few rectangular ranges) of the image is compressed in better quality than most? < 1494282996 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what I really want from an image format, but JPEG makes it really hard, because you can't just change the quantization matrix for just a rectangular region, and if you use a small quantization matrix for the whole image, then it doesn't compress well enough. < 1494283043 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that you could distribute an image as x264-encoded video like that, with special encoding software. < 1494283050 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers could display that. < 1494283058 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLIF is a lossless format, but the encoder also has a lossy mode. How might it be done to make lossy alterations into a picture to make it compress better as PNG? < 1494283101 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It would not be very good I think, since it is a video not a picture. However, such HTTP headers as Accept and so on could be used to make the server automatically know which format you want I suppose. < 1494283126 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with old formats is that even if they compress well, they aren't designed such that they are easy to encode and decode quickly on modern machines. They're designed to be easy to decode and encode on old machines. < 1494283216 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up the new HTTP header Accept-Soft-Limit to tell the server to try to limit to that many bytes if is reasonable to do so. < 1494283349 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Testing. < 1494283351 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1494283364 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion: pong < 1494283378 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: For some reason I can't talk in ##programming < 1494283406 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does emacs need ten megs to edit a file that is only 800 BYTES in size? < 1494283408 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be because I'm not identified; I just identified < 1494283413 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard stallman is a total moron < 1494283416 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: emacs < 1494283434 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1494283442 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit ten megabytes for each and every file my coworker has open < 1494283460 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone here knows wordsearches, I assume < 1494283482 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if, when generating a wordsearch, which of the following makes it more difficult: < 1494283516 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Filling in the random letters (those not involved in a searchable word) with equal probability- just as many z's and q's as t's and e's < 1494283562 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Filling in the random letters with the same distribution as the assumed language of the search (obviously, interlingual searches require either a weighted mean or just taking option (1)) < 1494283610 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in an English search with no words, there'd be (on average) substantially more e's and t's than q's and z's < 1494284210 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I think my tests will succeed now that I've politely asked my coworker to kill some of the 238 emacsen he had open < 1494284307 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :238 emacsen? < 1494284320 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't he have just a few emacsen, with multiple buffers in them? < 1494284337 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Why are you running your tests on the same machine as your editor? < 1494284347 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered fixing your build and test system? < 1494284372 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowhound < 1494284391 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfai9enlkgez76.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1494284408 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no he's not. his co-worker is running his editors on the production machine where the tests are supposed to be ran. that's obviously not oren's fault. < 1494284441 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also run my editors on the same machine < 1494284471 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running editors is ok, but 238 of them when they take 10 megabytes each is a lot. < 1494284472 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I use nano, which doesn't take a separate 10 megabytes process for each file that is open < 1494284485 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I open many files, I open them in just few editors. < 1494284490 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't use emacs though.) < 1494284531 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say this is all richard stallman's fault. < 1494284547 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yep. < 1494284575 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least your coworker fixed the problem when you asked. that's a good thing. < 1494284585 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494284593 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he wasn't even aware that so many were open < 1494284607 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of them were started months ago < 1494284630 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which raises bigger questions of course < 1494284639 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one little, two little, three little emacsen < 1494284649 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: you should fix your test and build infrastructure < 1494284702 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1494284795 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-71.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1494284801 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's got the population down to 30 < 1494284815 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1494284911 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, look at all this memory, how beautiful its empty expanse, like a sea beneath the stars < 1494284934 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494285081 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494285133 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Client Quit < 1494285152 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1494285180 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 PART #esoteric : < 1494285520 0 :boily_!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494285600 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1494285624 0 :boily_!?@? NICK :boily < 1494285819 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1494285820 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot//fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1494286068 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@test < 1494286069 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell list let leet < 1494286078 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`test < 1494286079 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1494286086 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, everything's fine. < 1494286099 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at his uncooperative modem < 1494286105 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1494286119 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: no, not fine. that command returned false exit code. < 1494286128 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/test < 1494286129 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/test: No such file or directory < 1494286137 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/test//kill -9 $$ < 1494286139 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't tell you the exit code, only the stdout < 1494286139 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/test < 1494286141 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`test < 1494286141 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed < 1494286148 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY! < 1494286150 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do taht < 1494286153 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1494286160 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it won't break anything. < 1494286165 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1494286166 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nœd//Nœd is Norwegian for distress. < 1494286170 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't create exes with name the same as common unix utilities, unless they're compatible. it's rude. < 1494286172 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/test//kill -9 $PPID < 1494286174 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/test < 1494286179 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1494286180 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete that < 1494286182 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rename < 1494286184 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf! ^^ < 1494286188 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1494286200 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is not supposed to be a reliable environment. < 1494286209 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but still, that's just rude < 1494286210 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to defy your expectations in subtle ways. < 1494286217 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could cause hard to debug problems < 1494286221 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! < 1494286231 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to defy expectations, make them in such a way that are easy to debug < 1494286234 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is extremely sturdy. it has, like +9 resistance. < 1494286257 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that doesn't protect from spells it casts on itself < 1494286371 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/test//[[ $((RANDOM % 5)) -eq 0 ]] && /bin/test "$@" || kill -9 $$ < 1494286373 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/test < 1494286380 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better? Now it's 80% reliable. < 1494286427 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 10 (0.2) < 1494286429 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.6989700043360187 < 1494286442 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only 7 dB of unreliability < 1494286977 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1494287061 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494287384 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp integral < 1494287386 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck:brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array \ jerk:Jerk is the integral of snap. < 1494287598 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CAPACITOR CHICKEN < 1494287717 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1494287880 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've never thought to ask: what's the derivative of the family of terrible esolangs? < 1494287885 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits brainfuck < 1494287893 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈] oerjän oerjän oerjän