←2017-05-05 2017-05-06 2017-05-07→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:02:40 <zzo38> I don't like the new rule 115.2e of Magic: the Gathering, which look a bit klugy to me. I think it would be clearer if the Oracle text of the card just said that it was a special action. ("You may discard ~ any time as a special action.")
00:02:41 <int-e> `? up
00:02:42 <HackEgo> up? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:02:57 <int-e> `learn Up is a direction away from the center of gravity of a celestial object.
00:03:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'up': Up is a direction away from the center of gravity of a celestial object.
00:03:29 <alercah> zzo38: that requires explaining to people what a special action is
00:07:39 <zzo38> Yes, but if you play Magic: the Gathering then you can learn.
00:11:47 <alercah> you can but should not have do
00:11:54 <alercah> most players never need to hear the words "special action"
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01:10:28 <boily> `? mahjong
01:10:29 <HackEgo> mahjong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:10:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Danieljabailey * New user account
01:17:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51860&oldid=51851 * Danieljabailey * (+100) Introduced myself, Dan
01:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51861&oldid=51859 * Taneb * (+106) Put some <code> tags in
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01:19:03 * boily signs the motteke sailor fuku ♪
01:19:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51862 * Danieljabailey * (+347) Add thing about delete past end of file
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01:19:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51863&oldid=51862 * Danieljabailey * (+16) oops, fix code format
01:21:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51864&oldid=51863 * Taneb * (+158) /* Range beyond end of file behaviour */
01:22:13 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think that's just a clarifying rule. The ability on Circling Vultures, as written in the current Oracle text, already sounds like it's giving you a special action.
01:23:23 <wob_jonas> What I don't understand though is why they didn't just errata it to an activated ability active when in your hand with the discard as a cost. On such old cards, from before sixth edition, they often make such errata.
01:24:32 <wob_jonas> There are lots of cards from that time that have an ability that used to be activated but now isn't, or backwards. Since it was before the sixth ed, they don't stick to the printed templating closely. On modern cards they rarely do such a change (though it does happen, like they recently changed how madness works).
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01:28:24 <zzo38> wob_jonas: OK it may be clarifying rule, but it seem to me to be more clear if it says "as a special action"; the cards I designed that do similar stuff do say "as a special action" if it is a special action.
01:28:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: and there's a good reason why 115.2c already covers most special actions, because most of the other delayed things they can just implement as activated abilities or triggered abilities or delayed triggers or other normal stuff.
01:29:36 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I take that back. It's not a clarifying rule, because 115.2c doesn't cover it. 115.2c only covers delayed special abilities, which are the activated version of delayed triggers, but they aren't triggers because you can pay for them, and might enable you to activate mana abilities first.
01:29:58 <wob_jonas> But all that tech's not required for simple things like the Vulture.
01:30:30 <zzo38> OK maybe, but it still seem klugy to me the way they did it, instead of just writing on the card text, "as a special action"
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01:30:46 <wob_jonas> It should be a fricking activated ability.
01:30:48 <wob_jonas> Seriously.
01:31:08 <wob_jonas> Yes, I know it's not the same rules-wise, because then you can respond to it and it's an object on the stack you can counter,
01:31:13 <wob_jonas> but that's how it SHOULD work.
01:32:16 <zzo38> Or just "Discard ~: No effect." could be another possibility, I suppose.
01:32:36 <wob_jonas> If it was printed two years later, it'd just say cycling {0}
01:32:58 <wob_jonas> zzo38: hmm wait, they actually added a phrasing for "No effect" these days... what was it
01:33:10 <zzo38> I don't know?
01:33:17 <wob_jonas> it appears in some replacement effects, possibly self-replacement
01:36:47 <wob_jonas> nope, sorry, they didn't add a phrasing that appears in oracle yet
01:37:06 <wob_jonas> "do nothing" appears in comp rules once, but they always avoid saying that in oracle texts or cards
01:37:22 <wob_jonas> because they're not writing the cards for algebraists or programmers, apparently
01:38:19 <wob_jonas> at least they sometimes have {0} as a noop cost of activated abilities and mana cost of spells, though it's less common these days, it's more because of gameplay problems such abilities cause, not because of templating problems
01:38:34 <zzo38> They should write the cards for algebraists and programmers, because that would make the text more clearly.
01:39:25 <wob_jonas> zzo38: it's not so bad. at least they did dare to make level up cards start from level 1
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01:53:40 <sdhand> I am convinced Taneb's esolang isn't powerful enough to do much
01:53:55 <sdhand> there's no easy way of updating the ranges in some of the expressions
01:54:14 <sdhand> which is needed for any looping structure
01:54:22 <LKoen> what's Taneb's esolang?
01:55:14 <sdhand> well Taneb's and danieljabailey's
01:55:24 <boily> what's a danieljabaley?
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01:56:08 <sdhand> they were designing it and distracting me from my board game, clearly why I lost....
01:56:09 <sdhand> https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Taneb/Sacramento_Wormhole
01:57:07 <sdhand> Dan and I attempted to come up with a fizzbuzz implementation but it seems impossible
01:57:14 <sdhand> obviously I haven't proven this
01:59:17 <LKoen> try to come up with a truth-machine implementation
01:59:25 <LKoen> it should be less tedious than fizzbuzz
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02:15:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cheese3660 * New user account
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02:33:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51865&oldid=51860 * Cheese3660 * (+290) Introduced myself
02:34:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51866&oldid=50771 * Cheese3660 * (+147) Added an interpreter
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03:05:37 <zzo38> Now I am writing a program to make the tensor product of two pictures.
03:13:21 <zzo38> Now I made it.
03:13:27 <zzo38> Do you like this?
03:18:38 <shachaf> I like this.
03:18:43 <shachaf> But I haven't seen it yet.
03:20:29 <zzo38> Then, you should look at first before you can see if you like this or not, I shoud think
03:20:57 <shachaf> But how can I look at it?
03:21:45 <zzo38> You can see http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/ it is all of the Farbfeld Utilities.
03:22:10 <zzo38> I also made a list of all of the programs with short descriptions
03:22:52 <shachaf> Unfortunately I can't do it from my phone.
03:24:11 <zzo38> O, I did not know that you are doing from your phone.
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04:31:01 <pikhq> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0&feature=youtu.be Pachelbel's Canon in D, or as it was originally titled, "Canon and Gigue for Three Violins and Basso Continuo", is apparently a lot more interesting if you... play it at the original tempo.
04:33:35 <Cale> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
04:34:23 <pikhq> I'm rather amused that part of it is typically played at something like a fourth of the intended speed.
04:34:37 <pikhq> (the gigue section)
04:50:04 <zzo38> I did not know that.
04:51:12 <pikhq> For those that don't know: a "gigue" was a baroque *dance tune*.
04:51:23 <pikhq> That's how lively the piece is intended to be.
04:52:20 <zzo38> Yes I know what gigue is. I did not know that that music had another title though
05:01:11 <doesthiswork> I thought that was the usual speed to play it, at least it was when I was in orchestra
05:08:51 <zzo38> What sound cards are capable of a sample rate high enough for colour television?
05:09:18 <zzo38> Is there such a thing?
05:16:06 <zzo38> Computing tensor product of pictures is not something I have seen in any other program (or collection of programs) to deal with pictures.
05:16:11 <zzo38> Have you seen any such thing?
05:17:41 <zzo38> Some of the stuff in my Farbfeld Utilities is stuff I have seen in other programs (common in some cases, rare in others), while others are stuff I have never seen anywhere else. But you can correct me if you have seen some of this stuff even though I have not seen!
05:19:40 <zzo38> (Also, some of them are stuff I have seen as parts of other functions in other programs, but not by themself.)
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07:35:41 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: whoa whoa whoa, do you know about non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs
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09:54:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51867&oldid=49732 * Primo * (+99) /* 160 */
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11:00:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51868&oldid=51867 * Primo * (+60) /* 45306 */
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11:25:00 <\oren\> Oh god this game just casually mentions that in the future chinchillas are extinct... poor chinchillas
11:25:05 <\oren\> I hope we can save the chinchillas
11:26:18 <myname> "there are no more elephants" "there is no more unethical treatment of elephants either. the world is a much better place"
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11:26:40 <myname> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcFHvEpP7A
11:30:37 <int-e> yeah just imagine how much better the world will be when we got rid of the people
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11:31:21 <myname> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG3uea-Hvy4
11:32:37 <\oren\> and eliminate the fucking mosquitoes
11:33:04 <\oren\> can we make species extinct on purpose in the future instead of by accident
11:33:15 <myname> those don't really bother me
11:33:25 <myname> i get rarely stung
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11:33:33 <izabera> \oren\: what about bisons
11:33:36 <izabera> or dodos
11:33:39 <myname> like, not at all in the last year
11:33:41 <int-e> the mosquitos are part of the solution
11:34:11 <int-e> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_3n9tU1_Q
11:34:38 <int-e> (btw I'm not clicking your links, I'm not really expecting you to click mine)
11:34:56 <myname> :D
11:35:33 <izabera> related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign mao's campain to eliminate mosquitoes resulted in loss of whole harvests and widespread famine
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11:39:06 <\oren\> izabera: well that was because they didn't know the sparrows were eating the locusts
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11:42:59 <\oren\> from what I can see on wikipedia there aren't any obvious problems with eliminating the mosquitoes that spread malaria and sleeping sickness
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13:15:18 <boily> `hellørjan.
13:15:18 <\oren\> I like this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_QOOHAlFEA
13:15:19 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hellørjan.: not found
13:15:59 <oerjan> helloily.
13:30:11 <\oren\> Oh god, a reference to yuru yuri. This game was made by people whose tastes are creepily similar to mine
13:31:50 <oerjan> . o O ( what is \oren\ smurfing about in the logs )
13:35:07 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/J9gDfuQaubI?t=1m30s this?
13:37:16 <oerjan> the joy of seeing someone need 9 tries to get past the wiki introduction...
13:39:47 <boily> he\\oriiiii~n\!
13:39:53 <boily> smurfing?
13:42:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51869&oldid=51864 * Oerjan * (+134) Missing the obvious
13:44:05 <oerjan> <\oren\> now net at this net, that I just net. when I net net, be ready to net. net! net it at him not me! ugh, let's net something else.
13:44:47 <\oren\> yeah it's a version of we are number one where all verbs are replaced with net
13:45:34 <\oren\> we net number one
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14:02:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51870&oldid=51869 * Oerjan * (+351) /* PDA */
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14:25:08 <moony> Empty :P
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14:29:16 <boily> mhelloony.
14:32:28 <moony> hi.
14:32:40 <moony> I got around to porting _js to asdfbot (otherbot's successor)
14:33:07 <moony> works well, just need to trim the output so it doesnt go on indefinitly if you abuse it :P
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14:39:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51871&oldid=51870 * Taneb * (+249) /* PDA */
14:41:05 <boily> `relcome handicraftsman
14:41:06 <HackEgo> handicraftsman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:42:52 <moony> boily, he just followed the channel name when i brought in asdfbot (I know him)
14:42:54 <moony> +
14:43:15 <myname> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-R5wm0UQAADBng.jpg go.
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14:44:29 <moony> eww
14:44:30 <handicraftsman> WHAT
14:44:38 <myname> quality language
14:44:49 <handicraftsman> That was just `_runat #esoteric runas moоny ping`
14:44:54 <handicraftsman> >_>
14:46:10 <moony> handicraftsman, it couldnt identify the U perms. Please dont do that, you know what chaining runa* commands does :P
14:46:31 <handicraftsman> moony, lol
14:46:35 <handicraftsman> My one is better a bit
14:46:37 <handicraftsman> But still shitty
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14:46:51 <moony> dont bring it he- EEE
14:47:03 <moony> Seriously, they dont like sudden bot swarms. This is not ##lazy-valoran
14:47:05 <boily> myname: mynamello. that is vile!
14:47:21 <moony> handicraftsman, make protonbot leave.
14:47:23 <boily> I like swarms. good practice for mapoling ^^
14:47:33 <handicraftsman> \part
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14:47:50 <int-e> boily: swatting seems more appropriate
14:48:05 <int-e> . o O ( A mapole couldn't hurt a fly ;-) )
14:48:50 <int-e> (it's not actually true, but swatters make it much easier)
14:49:21 <handicraftsman> _part
14:49:24 <handicraftsman> _part #esoteric
14:49:27 <handicraftsman> Oh
14:49:28 <handicraftsman> Not here
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14:50:14 <int-e> _?
14:50:32 <handicraftsman> _list
14:50:32 <asdfbot> handicraftsman: Command groups (use list <group>): chanop fun main general
14:51:19 <boily> _selfdestruct
14:51:47 <handicraftsman> Actually m00ny made bot join first time
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14:54:11 <moony> handicraftsman, i know. last i checked, otherbot didnt bother them as long as bot spam did not occur :P
14:54:51 <handicraftsman> Parabolols?
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15:22:07 <boily> `w
15:22:09 <HackEgo> emac//emacs is the weird brother of nano.
15:23:14 <myname> haha
15:23:24 <boily> emacs is everything mashed, amalgamated, conflagrated and stringed together in an unholy mess of weird key combinations.
15:23:45 <myname> and lisp
15:23:50 <shachaf> `` mv wisdom/emac{,s}
15:23:52 <HackEgo> No output.
15:24:50 <shachaf> `le//rn emac//The eMac, released in 2002, was the first model of Macintosh computer to use electricity.
15:24:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'emac': The eMac, released in 2002, was the first model of Macintosh computer to use electricity.
15:25:10 <myname> `? vim
15:25:11 <HackEgo> vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
15:25:43 <myname> huh, how can it differ by 2?
15:26:02 <myname> ah
15:33:25 <moony> Im working on emulating a filesystem inside of _js
15:34:11 <myname> oh dear
15:34:38 <moony> so far i have the base design for how, say, null devices will emulate
15:34:58 <moony> s/null//
15:35:24 <moony> devices in general actually :P
15:36:14 <moony> alongside files.
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16:47:30 <rdococ> YaY
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16:53:53 <rdococ> hi
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17:53:30 <zzo38> Do you think this document is good? http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffbit If something in unclear or wrong or incomplete to please either to make the suggestion or you can fix it yourself
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18:02:25 <boily> hezzo38. looks great! is it possible to restructure it to be more like a man page?
18:09:23 <zzo38> It could; in such a case, such a restructuring can be written as a man page so that it can be used with man.
18:09:37 <zzo38> (and then can also be used with troff and whatever, to make printouts too)
18:10:27 <int-e> adding a man-style synopsis and perhaps two examples would probably be helpful
18:11:30 <int-e> (I don't think that boily is really concerned about the format)
18:11:38 <zzo38> These wiki articles are not really meant to be man pages (they may later even have various stuff added that would not go on a man page), although that does not mean we cannot have man pages too.
18:11:50 <zzo38> int-e: Yes, examples probably will help.
18:12:39 <zzo38> If you can think of what might be good example, we can add them. This is anyone-writing wiki, and we can add links and examples and whatever other information, including stuff you might not want in a man page.
18:15:26 <boily> int-ello. that is indeed what I meant.
18:15:32 <boily> (meanwhile, “Josephine the human zombie”. mwah ah ah.)
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18:18:37 <int-e> hmm
18:19:26 <boily> hmm?
18:19:37 <int-e> @google "josephine the human zombie"
18:19:39 <lambdabot> No Result Found.
18:20:35 <int-e> boily: "hmm" as in "I'm curious but not sure whether I really want to know what that is about".
18:22:12 <int-e> well it turned up http://www.uwindsor.ca/conference/zombies/309/josephine-richards
18:22:36 <zzo38> You can also tell me if there are other kind of headerless bitwise formats that you think could be fit into this program but that are not yet included, if you know of some other that may be in use.
18:24:01 <boily> int-e: playing DCSS, nothing unusual ^^
18:24:33 <int-e> ah.
18:24:43 <int-e> @google dcss
18:24:44 <lambdabot> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/
18:24:44 <lambdabot> Title: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
18:24:56 <int-e> wow... that wasn't the first hit *here*.
18:25:02 <int-e> @botsnack
18:25:03 <lambdabot> :)
18:25:28 <int-e> Here I got "California Department of Child Support Services"
18:26:15 <int-e> `? dcss
18:26:16 <HackEgo> dcss? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:26:24 <int-e> . o O ( Dungean Content Scrambling System )
18:26:30 <int-e> *dungeon
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18:52:31 <zzo38> I found a description of "Aamber Pegasus" computer; the ROM has four programming languages (BASIC, Pascal, Forth, and assembler), as well as three games, and a word processor, as well as the BIOS; additional software could be loaded from cassettes. Also it does video by executing NOPs on the CPU and using its instruction counter; this is another kind of cheap video.
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19:10:54 <boily> `w
19:10:55 <HackEgo> partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category.
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19:45:20 <Cale> spooky
19:48:40 <\oren\> what if the hacking *claims* are a last minute lie by Mācrōn, to make people think Le Pen is a russian spy?
19:50:12 <Taneb> \oren\, that'd have a way too high chance of backfiring, especially when he's been leading the polls
19:51:01 <Zarutian> zzo38: how big was the rom and is there a dump of it somewhere online?
19:52:33 <zzo38> Zarutian: I don't know, although I read that it has multiple banks which you must switch between to use different programs.
19:53:30 <Zarutian> zzo38: that is not that unusual. If you think about it a bit, that is what modern memory does with CAS and RAS registers.
19:54:08 <zzo38> Yes, I know it is not unusual.
19:54:26 <zzo38> (Although a small ROM would not need bank switching)
19:55:08 <\oren\> most of the NES games used bank switching
19:56:00 <zzo38> Yes, other than the mapper 0 (NROM) cartridges
20:01:38 <\oren\> ImmutableTreeListᐸElementTᐳ
20:01:44 <\oren\> ImmutableTreeList<ElementT>
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20:17:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * H3amza * New user account
20:25:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51872&oldid=51865 * H3amza * (+97) /* Introductions */
20:52:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51873 * H3amza * (+185) added initial stub. more to follow
20:54:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51874&oldid=51852 * H3amza * (+10) /* R */ added rao to list
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21:29:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51875&oldid=51873 * H3amza * (+2025) added keyword list.
21:38:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51876&oldid=51875 * H3amza * (+369) added hello world example
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22:42:03 <Sgeo> https://twitter.com/bcrypt/status/860954121242681344
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23:15:39 <Taneb> ...can't seem to log in on the wiki
23:15:57 <Taneb> Oh, I wasn't using https
23:17:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffbit => I find this confusing. Either it doesn't do what I want with raw formats, or I don't understand the description.
23:18:52 <wob_jonas> I like imagemagick's handling of raw formats: you choose separately (1) the list and order of color channels, like gray, rgb, rgba, 0bgr (2) bit depth per color channel, like 8 or 16, and
23:19:58 <wob_jonas> (3) the interlacing, as in, the different channels for the same pixel are right after one another, or a single channel for a full row is listed before the next channel starts (rare), or a single channel of the whole image is listed before the next channel starts.
23:20:56 <wob_jonas> There are also ways to handle common headerless YUV formats (which are usually page-interlaced and can have color subsampling, as in, the UV channels can have less resolution than the Y), and headerless bayer.
23:21:39 <wob_jonas> There's also ffmpeg, which does it completely differently: it only has a single parameter for the colorspace of raw images, but that one is a large enum that covers all the commonly used formats.
23:21:42 <zzo38> wob_jonas: This program is only for bitwise paletted raw formats.
23:22:04 <wob_jonas> zzo38: oh, this only does paletted? it can't do rgb (true color) at all?
23:22:11 <zzo38> To support what you are looking for another program can be written for that purpose.
23:22:30 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes. To support RGB it can be another program to implement that.
23:22:50 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no, I'll probably just keep using imagemagick or ffmpeg for that. I don't think have to go through farbfeld utils for that.
23:23:28 <zzo38> Even if you do not use it yourself, I still think it could be helpful to add a program for headerless RGB formats too.
23:25:11 <zzo38> (This program does implement Hold-And-Modify though.)
23:26:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51877&oldid=51876 * H3amza * (+1304) added ascii characterization.
23:28:39 <wob_jonas> Anyway, if ffbit only writes paletted formats, I think you should mention that in that wiki page, in the first line where it says "various headerless bitwise formats"
23:28:51 <wob_jonas> now let me try to understand what this says again, knowing that
23:29:01 <zzo38> OK, fixed.
23:29:07 <wob_jonas> maybe it should say "various headerless uncompressed paletted formats"
23:29:43 <zzo38> OK, I fixed that too now.
23:30:49 <wob_jonas> so the fourth command-line argument is the palette?
23:31:02 <zzo38> The fourth and subsequent arguments are the palette.
23:31:19 <wob_jonas> oh, like one color per argument?
23:31:29 <zzo38> Yes. It does say "two or more colour specifications (as separate arguments)".
23:31:29 <wob_jonas> strange
23:31:36 <wob_jonas> ok
23:32:00 <wob_jonas> But then, I don't have much need for rare paletted formats.
23:32:04 <wob_jonas> um
23:32:10 <wob_jonas> for raw paletted formast
23:32:37 <zzo38> Examples could be made to clarify it a bit, I suppose.
23:32:51 <wob_jonas> I do use 8-bit paletted often, for writing png, because png is a very widely supported format, and due to the way it works, it compresses paletted way better than rgb for most pictures.
23:33:06 <wob_jonas> But that's not raw paletted, it's compressed.
23:33:24 <zzo38> LodePNG (which ffpng uses) will automatically do that when applicable.
23:33:28 <wob_jonas> And I sometimes use black and white, but I think of that as 1-bit grayscale rather than paletted.
23:34:35 <zzo38> LodePNG will also automatically know to use 8-bits-per-channel or 16-bits-per-channel, and whether or not to include the alpha channel.
23:35:25 <wob_jonas> Right, but the hard part is computing the palette and converting a true color image to paletted, in various ways.
23:36:06 <wob_jonas> as in http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/tktview?name=e5fa2ac6e9 is the first half, and ImageMagick is quite versatile in the second part
23:36:47 <wob_jonas> supports different color metric and dithering, and those options do matter, for different images or uses you want different settings
23:37:00 <wob_jonas> some dithering vs no dithering is the most important
23:37:04 <zzo38> Yes, and I partially wrote "ff-palette" program although the algorithm that is currently implemented is not very good; if you have better idea how to fix them then please to make the contributions too!
23:37:26 <wob_jonas> no dithering is the most common setting, but sometimes dithering is important
23:37:40 <zzo38> (I do intend that the feature request mentioned there will be implemented.)
23:37:42 <\oren\> Hmm, I think I'm having a caffiene overdose
23:38:03 <wob_jonas> you already have an ff-palette ? let me look
23:38:04 <\oren\> I drank too many experimental coffee drinks
23:38:07 <zzo38> Note that to reduce the picture to the specified palette, a different program (ff-reduce) is used; the program ff-palette is only deciding the palette.
23:38:16 <wob_jonas> sure
23:38:51 <zzo38> In addition to the things you specify (which are good), I would also want to be able to add into ff-palette the ability to support HAM and EHB modes too.
23:38:58 <wob_jonas> you can separate those steps in imagemagick too. (you can do it together too if you wish, but it lets you do both of them separately.
23:39:34 <wob_jonas> well, almost. the trick is that you don't give a palette as an input, just a set of colors for the palette. it is free to determine the order and remove dups and unused colors.)
23:40:50 <wob_jonas> pity there's so little docs for these farbfeld programs
23:41:27 <wob_jonas> let me see this ff-reduce first
23:41:54 <zzo38> Yes that is too bad; currently there is only this http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation and the "bit" converter is the only one whose link works on that documentation page. You are free to help to write the documentation if you want to though; it is anyone-writing wiki.
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23:52:49 <wob_jonas> wait what?
23:53:08 <zzo38> Do you have a better question?
23:53:34 <wob_jonas> does this parse_color thing, like, return an uninitialized Color if the input isn't a color string, and main can call parse_color that way?
23:54:06 <zzo38> Currently it does; perhaps it should be an error message instead. I can fix that now.
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23:54:08 <wob_jonas> that looks like a bad idea
23:54:30 <wob_jonas> even if no error message, it should at least return black or some other valid color
23:54:55 <wob_jonas> that's literally a three character fix
23:55:15 <wob_jonas> change Color c; to Color c={0};
23:55:18 <wob_jonas> ok, four character
23:55:22 <wob_jonas> I'm too much of a C++ person
23:56:18 <zzo38> OK, I fixed that.
23:56:23 <zzo38> Thank you for noting that
23:56:50 <wob_jonas> you could try using compiler warnings to catch this stuff
23:57:17 <zzo38> I could, although the compiler will also warn about many things that I do not want it to worn
23:57:27 <wob_jonas> I have some M:tG rules questions, and I wonder if I should ask them now when I'm tired and ais isn't here, or later.
23:57:38 <zzo38> You could do both!
23:57:49 <wob_jonas> zzo38: well sure, so disable all the warnings you don't want. that's what compiler switches are for.
23:59:48 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, and it is what I did (you can see at the top of the file). Still, there can be false-positives and false-negatives and so on
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