< 1493770166 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493770388 0 :sdhand!~sdhandtmp@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening #esoteric < 1493770393 0 :sdhand!~sdhandtmp@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically morning < 1493770395 0 :sdhand!~sdhandtmp@unaffiliated/kyubiko PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's good? < 1493770441 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1493770443 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdhellond. there's a Great Debate at the office about Java 9. < 1493770447 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-94-147.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493770462 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1493770472 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what office? I don't follow who works where < 1493770499 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the debate about? < 1493770515 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my job. we were discussing if it's gonna be worth it to upgrade stuff to the next version, breakage, javafx, maven... < 1493770525 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Rust involved too? < 1493770536 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, we're not hip enough for that :/ < 1493770541 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1493770557 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: scrap maven, use bazel hth < 1493770567 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have some Java guys over at the software room < 1493770595 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wish, but I like maven and we use it. < 1493770607 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1493770610 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is maven good? < 1493770619 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we only have C++ and C# and python and lots more < 1493770647 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what they like in C# though < 1493770654 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite pretty good, I say. a bit inscrutable and verbose at times, but everything is very predictable. < 1493770689 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a maven? is that like a raven? < 1493770707 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that says nevemmome? < 1493770812 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# is the exact same as Java, but more. < 1493770832 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more in what sense? < 1493770863 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has True Generic Types Without [EXPLÉTIF] Type Erasure, for once. < 1493770875 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you should probably use bazel for all those languages hth < 1493770883 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really hates type erasure
< 1493770909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1493770924 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :type erasure is the best < 1493770930 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh did someone say Rust? Did someone say Rust? < 1493770931 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sensed Rust < 1493770933 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said Rust < 1493770941 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1493770955 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1493770969 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: do you mean generics where you can prove the compiler that your code is typesafe? < 1493770983 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: yes, I'm interested in rust < 1493771001 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: You know what's scow? Covariant mutable arrays. < 1493771019 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, then why aren't you on MozNet/#rust? D: < 1493771056 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: I'm on mozilla/#rust-beginner sometimes < 1493771068 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also rust-offtopic < 1493771071 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, and that all information available at compile time is also available at runtime. as far as the JVM knows, there is absolutely no difference between eg. List and List and List, which drives me nuts. < 1493771094 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: very scow. < 1493771100 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I see < 1493771114 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eiffel is arguably even more scow than that. < 1493771123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has covariant function arguments, doesn't it? < 1493771143 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scow (noun): a wide-beamed sailing dinghy." < 1493771228 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: JVM doesn't matter. what does the java *compiler* know about those types? I mean, you can write crazy type proofs in haskell, even with phantom types, and most of the info disappears by the time the compiler outputs stuff. < 1493771381 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, curiosity: why do you care what type information is available at runtime? < 1493771486 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: compiling will make a difference between List and List, but everything between < and > disappear at runtime. it is very annoying when you write a class with templates, as the actual concrete type disappears at runtime, and you can't do stuff like 'new T();' inside a method declared in 'class Something'. < 1493771534 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like a complaint about language semantics that doesn't have much to do with runtime. < 1493771542 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so C# is different in that? < 1493771558 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C# retains the whole thing. < 1493771612 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: you can write code that abstracts over the contents of a structure (List), but not code that abstracts over the structure itself (F). or you may, but it becomes unwieldy, smells bad, and isn't aligned with feng shui. < 1493771638 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, so you're complaining about a lack of higher-kinded types? I don't understand how that maps to type erasure. < 1493771765 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find a hole in sleffy's argument
< 1493771806 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1493772745 0 :Ir0nYmon!?@? NICK :IronY < 1493773025 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1493773063 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493773132 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493774037 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493774135 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accept that I effected a bucco-pedal manœuvre there... will have to rethink my argument and position over that. < 1493774145 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493774147 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inory//Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite. < 1493774161 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bucco-pedal? < 1493774174 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like a backpedal? < 1493774177 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, https://archive.org/stream/biostor-97775/biostor-97775_djvu.txt < 1493774182 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be a genus of something or other < 1493774188 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits inory < 1493774200 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈] < 1493774233 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: foot in mouth hth < 1493774234 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg inory < 1493774243 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7183:2016-03-10 ` sed -i \'s/Moron./Someone who does this is an inorite./\' wisdom/inory \ 7182:2016-03-10 le/rn inory/Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn\'t. Moron. \ 7181:2016-03-10 le/rn inory/Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn\'t < 1493774282 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? inory < 1493774284 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite. < 1493774287 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ionry < 1493774289 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ionry? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1493774302 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ion refinary < 1493774303 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion refinary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1493774304 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? camtim < 1493774306 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :camtim? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1493774316 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :camtim? < 1493774348 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: a HHGG thingy < 1493774441 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh. < 1493774481 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I realized the language spoken in this channel is esoteric in and of itself < 1493774520 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: yeah, communities tend to have injokes and other jargon they use < 1493774524 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be hard to understand < 1493774863 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you believe it? hppavilion[1] made a scow and rude wisdom entry, and oerjan made it good. < 1493774871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except only the last sentence of it is good. < 1493774904 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: if it gets too obscure, feel free to ask, and then we'll laugh at you < 1493774933 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, of course. I would hate to break tradition < 1493774942 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't laugh at you for asking. < 1493774945 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scow < 1493774946 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. < 1493774952 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1493774964 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the scow of X" means something like "the worst speciment of X" < 1493774972 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can also be used as an adjective and so on. < 1493774977 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The etymology is "garbage scow". < 1493774990 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1493775706 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys the solution is to just use go < 1493775710 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has no generics of any kind < 1493775712 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493775715 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the most requested feature! < 1493775785 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: it has all-runtime dynamic typing though < 1493776324 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :genericity! genericity! genericity! < 1493776875 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what no < 1493776883 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has static typing < 1493776918 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: it has these typeclass thingies, called interfaces, resolved at runtime, like java stuff < 1493776924 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dynamic typing < 1493777336 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1493777361 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493777385 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Client Quit < 1493777443 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. not the dynamic typing < 1493777464 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of human evolution has led to this greatness < 1493777466 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pcgamer.com/eve-onlines-latest-war-is-being-fought-over-anime/ < 1493777624 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I am attempting to make a special preprocessor for C that add features, like watfor did for fortran < 1493777912 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Armok628 5* 10New user account < 1493777917 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\. that is glorious. < 1493777928 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to moosh LISP and PROLOG into one VM. < 1493777934 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not going well. < 1493778388 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: HYDROSTATIC CHICKEN < 1493779088 0 :xfix!~konrad@unaffiliated/xfix QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493779218 0 :xfix!~konrad@unaffiliated/xfix JOIN :#esoteric < 1493779697 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Can eigenvectors be generalized to other categories? < 1493779702 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like we may have talked about this before. < 1493780823 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493782000 0 :bibibi!~bibibi@unaffiliated/bibibi JOIN :#esoteric < 1493782460 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51836&oldid=51831 5* 03Armok628 5* (+286) 10/* Introductions */ < 1493782492 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51837&oldid=51829 5* 03Armok628 5* (+564) 10Added simple Common Lisp implementation < 1493783464 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Silberjoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51838&oldid=50828 5* 03Quintopia 5* (-2) 10/* Syntax */ proper bullets < 1493783523 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:CatIsFluffy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51839 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+120) 10/* Question */ new section < 1493785068 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1493786634 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493787797 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493788225 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1493789111 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493789146 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493789331 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493789344 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493789567 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493789606 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493789665 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493790100 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493790413 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493791428 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493791438 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:JHM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51840 5* 03JHM 5* (+17) 10Created page with "Hi, I'm JungHwan." < 1493791519 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51841&oldid=50876 5* 03JHM 5* (+287) 10/* x = 0 */ < 1493791677 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493792538 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1493792988 0 :Guest14972!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493794380 0 :Guest14972!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493794946 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1493794983 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493795041 0 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@md-188-69-213-194.omni.lt JOIN :#esoteric < 1493795094 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493795159 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-199-56.omni.lt QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493795347 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493795436 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1493796517 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493797259 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493799183 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcqtwkgeuworns.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1493799240 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He once put a satellite in geosynchronous orbit... around Mars" (the most interesting man in the world) < 1493800476 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1493801899 0 :hppavilion[1]!?@? NICK :dell < 1493801905 0 :dell!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1493802287 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493802561 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1493802778 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive, seeing as there are no geosynchronous orbits around mars < 1493802781 0 :hppavilion[1]!?@? NICK :thenewguy < 1493802835 0 :thenewguy!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: /that's the joke/ < 1493803087 0 :thenewguy!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1493803218 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/impressive/that's funny/ < 1493807011 0 :betaveros!~betaveros@mint-square.mit.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493807151 0 :betaveros!~betaveros@mint-square.mit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1493807159 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Excess Flood < 1493807161 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493807200 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1493807339 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493807469 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493807555 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1493809281 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1493811242 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493811591 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493811594 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :postorder//Postorder is the same as Polish notation, since Post was Polish. Not to be confused with reverse Polish notation, which is postfix. < 1493811879 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish is a hard language to learn for non-native speakers, and Post had trouble communicating with his peers. < 1493812178 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps post should have used correspondence, then < 1493813524 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b863:4f30:b210:5e6f JOIN :#esoteric < 1493814165 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493814166 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanec//Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous! < 1493814177 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493814179 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who taneb is not//elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto. < 1493814202 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493814203 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomgmodules//ZOMGMODULES is both a small blonde veterinarian and just modules over the ring of ZOMGs. < 1493814207 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493814209 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admn//admn is the curse of people with cdop. < 1493814215 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1493814217 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf < 1493814252 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cdop < 1493814254 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. < 1493814258 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafellot, he\\oren\. < 1493814492 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: GALLERY CHICKEN < 1493814788 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1493817756 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493817822 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we have a fudged dice command here? You know, one that lets you roll a dice or draw lots from a set of choices, and normally appears to be fair, with a clear source code, but there's a separate command you can give in private message in advance to make it give the choice you want and then clean up the source code afterwards? < 1493818207 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493819948 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493821601 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-198-189.omni.lt JOIN :#esoteric < 1493821730 0 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@md-188-69-213-194.omni.lt QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1493822428 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1493822577 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b863:4f30:b210:5e6f QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1493824241 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1493826877 0 :SlashWW3!~slash@105.12.223.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493826928 0 :SlashWW3!~slash@105.12.223.206 PART #esoteric : < 1493827622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493827622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1493827622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1493827846 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1493828288 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tell < 1493828289 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mean "@tell " instead? < 1493828293 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help tell < 1493828293 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell . When shows activity, tell them . < 1493828306 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell LKoen I think you don't even learn to think anymore. < 1493828306 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1493828325 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell LKoen It was taken from the curriculum and replaced with boring stuff. < 1493828325 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1493829362 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493829458 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493830481 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493830808 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493830813 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1493831226 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1493833423 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1493833506 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74.114.87.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493833891 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1493833932 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1493834442 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74.114.87.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493834542 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493834582 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1493835014 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is all your fault < 1493835038 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1493835039 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I bought another humble bundle :-P) < 1493835061 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, SSR? < 1493835086 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that. < 1493835230 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe 11 sausages are enough for a start < 1493835300 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that past the first area? < 1493835306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it probably isn't. < 1493835505 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, everything I've done still fits on the screen http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png < 1493835568 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough to get a taste of the game. < 1493835736 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png <-- oh nein, ich habe schon wieder ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. (aber nicht zum Vollpreis, gibt grad ein humble bundle) < 1493835763 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong channel? < 1493835779 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1493835787 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nein < 1493835801 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ein Hipster-Spiel < 1493835815 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was intended for a much smaller audience < 1493835826 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it's fine here as well :P < 1493835859 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a hipster game is the only thing that can explain its price :-P < 1493835875 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should the price be low? < 1493835930 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why indeed if people still buy it < 1493835944 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, clearly they don't. < 1493835961 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1493835963 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They wait until it's part of ein humble bundle. < 1493835999 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eins Zwei Polizei < 1493836000 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do < 1493836386 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I did not, actually, expect to find that game in a humble bundle any time soon. < 1493836594 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1493836608 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were waiting until the price goes down, and willing to wait indefinitely. < 1493836737 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite right < 1493836982 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1493836984 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. < 1493837095 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn_append int-e/Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1493837096 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1493837108 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le//rn_append int-e//Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1493837111 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'int-e': int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1493837124 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sv:Hen har köpt ett hipsterspel. < 1493837136 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough "ge" tdnh < 1493837146 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's better in the original German < 1493837161 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why the wisdom is in swedish < 1493837197 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I suspect it's because of the word "inte" in the first sentence. < 1493837210 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1493837221 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he wants a limerick written about him. < 1493837226 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be Swedish for that. < 1493837264 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you wouldn't want the inte since that makes it say he's not Swedish < 1493837295 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it doesn't say he's into Swedes? < 1493837307 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1493837363 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1493837367 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please write a Swedish-language limerick about int-e. < 1493837431 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ꙮ < 1493837433 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1134) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." < 1493837446 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote edible < 1493837447 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1311) an #esoteric-dwelling swede / was mistaken for edible feed / “with you,” said a sicko / “our lanttulaatikko / would be very tasty indeed!” < 1493837738 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it involves swedes and rutabagas too, punny < 1493837928 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Are you playing SSR as well? < 1493837938 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's SSR? < 1493837976 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have played some small-screen rendering, but presto browsers are rare these days < 1493837980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen's Sausage Roll < 1493837993 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Selective Serotonin Reuptake? < 1493838055 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, isn't it rather the inhibition that's selective, than the serotonin reuptake? < 1493838074 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it the serotonin that's selective? < 1493838210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yæy < 1493838230 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can just stop it, rdococ. < 1493838265 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I did was say "hi" and "yæy", and it was in the span of 20 minutes. Give me a break, shachaf. < 1493838275 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1493838288 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculous. < 1493838941 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1493839842 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1493839887 0 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer JOIN :#esoteric < 1493840065 0 :augur!~augur@c-67-160-198-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493840319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people here who play mtg right < 1493840332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone check for me when a particular card was first released? < 1493840508 0 :augur_!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493840574 0 :rasman_net!~kodachi@185.183.97.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493840596 0 :augur!~augur@c-67-160-198-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1493840857 0 :rasman_net!~kodachi@185.183.97.98 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1493840880 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Gatherer tell you that? < 1493841863 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:694:cc33:fe5:2193:3a2b PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can scalar multiplication be generalised to other categories? < 1493842038 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: was für ein Spiel ist das? < 1493842070 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I don't know! Can it? < 1493842087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a natural transformation of some sort? < 1493842094 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ask shachaf :P < 1493842109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, not that i saw but who knows < 1493842148 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there are several people here who could check that for you. < 1493842209 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: was für ein Spiel ist SSR? < 1493842287 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Selektive Serotonin-Wiederaufnahme hth < 1493842298 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiederaufnahmespiel < 1493842312 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:694:cc33:fe5:2193:3a2b PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, it definitely makes sense to talk about eigenvalues/eigenvectors for module homomorphisms < 1493842333 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:694:cc33:fe5:2193:3a2b PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: More generally, you can probably do something relevant in any Abelian category. < 1493842337 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eigenvectors are a generalization of fixed points. < 1493842358 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that they aren't exactly a fixed point but they are up to scalar multiplication. < 1493842370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another notion of "fixed point up to [simple operation]"? < 1493842586 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: SSR ist Stephen's Sausage Roll hdhg < 1493842600 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isee < 1493842610 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ich nicht sprachen deutsche < 1493842653 0 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1493842758 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet mapscii.me < 1493842791 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSR? Soviet socialist republic < 1493842799 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good point. < 1493842837 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ССР < 1493842896 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :USSR is therefore ambiguous between ukrainian and union < 1493842918 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in russian it is totally biguous < 1493842940 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about in Ukrainian? < 1493843024 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's still biguous < 1493843178 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main difference I'm aware of between russian and ukrainian is that Г is pronounced more like H and not like G < 1493843197 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence russian Lugansk is ukrainian Luhansk < 1493843237 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how the georgian ssr is affected < 1493843300 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Грузинская Советская Социалистическая Республика < 1493843351 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however საქართველოს საბჭოთა სოციალისტური რესპუბლიკა is entirely different < 1493843479 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ukrainian < 1493843482 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Грузинська Радянська Соціалістична Республіка < 1493843587 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sotsialistichna instead of sotsialisticheskaya < 1493843645 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and radyanska instead of sovetskaya < 1493844023 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1493844040 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess in ukrainian it's the SRSR, < 1493844077 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or CPCP < 1493844354 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493844480 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493844500 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3473 -- unlike Arcadia, Faye is probably telling the truth here < 1493844521 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowcontent < 1493844694 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, I play M:tG (sort of). please ask your question. < 1493844724 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are many people here to who like Magic: The Gathering but don't play. < 1493844770 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb neither likes nor plays, but soon he'll be visiting California and I'll give him a bunch of free cards. < 1493844842 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huhwhat? < 1493844845 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the M:tG Turing machine is quite a strong selling point. < 1493844859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1493844865 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't like M:tG but you're giving him free cards? why? < 1493844868 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing completeness, as I've said recently, is scow. < 1493844883 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would like to suggest that the rules of a game are unnecessarily complex for achieving TC-ness. :P < 1493844893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Well, what else can I do with them? I don't have a wood stove. < 1493844909 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we need an M:tG tarpit. < 1493844926 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: One of the rules of the game says that if you get into an infinite loop, it ends in a draw. < 1493844928 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: give them to someone who likes M:tG? < 1493844936 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the game is actually undecidable. < 1493844957 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Taneb would start to like it if he had cards. < 1493844969 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway he's not really coming to California as far as I know. So there's no hurry. < 1493844974 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so that gives anyone an excuse for not playing it rationally < 1493844993 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Travelling a third of the way across the world does cost a fair bit of money, after all < 1493845002 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have given me them last time I was in California < 1493845006 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my thoughts were meandering along the shores of rationality and undecidability last night, somehow) < 1493845023 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: send them to him by post? that's cheaper than having him travel to California in person. < 1493845023 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a long time ago, I think. < 1493845038 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean "rationality" in the game theoretic "rational agent" sense. < 1493845042 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Do you want me to send you some Magic: the Gathering cards by post? < 1493845047 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some basic lands? < 1493845052 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few commons? < 1493845062 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care, if I'm being honest < 1493845087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much my cards are worth. < 1493845104 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some cards that went for ~$50 back when they were in Standard, but they rotated out long ago. < 1493845227 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play M:tG rationally, but the infinite loop rule doesn't have much to do that. < 1493845292 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, this is old news... wtf?! http://www.geek.com/games/black-lotus-magic-the-gatherings-most-famous-card-sells-for-27302-1577939/ < 1493845322 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1493845368 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1493845432 0 :augur_!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493845560 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I knew that this now-useless card was highly sought after. Well, I had no idea. < 1493845562 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well it's an Alpha Black Lotus. It's not something you need even if you're playing Vintage, because an Unlimited Black Lotus, of which there are much more out there, works just as well. It's a collectible item. < 1493845590 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how is that now-useless? it's the most useful card ever. it goes to basically every Vintage deck, no matter how it tries to win. < 1493845619 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black Lotus was always the most expensive M:tG card. < 1493845668 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9764 is funnier < 1493845686 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is vintage played much... < 1493845692 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs, not really caring.
< 1493845700 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, it's not played much, because it's a very expensive format < 1493845711 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have many people who can buy the necessary cards for it < 1493845718 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a Black Lotus and lots of other expensive cards < 1493845767 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's sort of unfun, because the power level is basically unchecked < 1493845781 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will always be played with only very broken decks < 1493845786 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: useful? it only gives you three karma and then you have to sacrifice it! < 1493845805 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds scow to me < 1493845819 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/then // , to be more accurate < 1493845831 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the format where no cards are banned for power level if they were originally released by Wizards and intended to be tournament legal (a few cards are banned for reasons other than power) < 1493845849 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/14031/20141015/this-is-the-reason-the-black-lotus-is-worth-30000-and-why-that-magic-the-gathering-youtuber-is-right-to-be-excited.htm explains a 4 card combo to win on the first term < 1493845868 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not likely to materialise but having 4 mana on the first turn is a lot) < 1493845875 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black Lotus is so good that even Lion's Eye Diamond is a good card. < 1493845901 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it gives you three mana for free, even in turn 1. that gives so much speed advantage it would decide many games even in a slower environment, and definitely does in Vintage which is a very fast environment, since you can just put the most broken cards in your deck, ones that don't need many mana. < 1493845927 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: nonsense, it's not free, you have to sacrifice your best card for it < 1493845973 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's not a good argument that the card is not good because you have to use the best card of your deck to use it < 1493846007 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best card of your deck, it'd be circular to argue that it's bad because it's your best card < 1493846025 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sacrificing your best permanent is obviously a bad idea < 1493846031 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying that the Moon is better than the Sun because the Moon gives light in the night when it's dark so you need the light much more < 1493846032 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not called a permanent for nothing < 1493846046 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very good point. < 1493846050 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The moon is much more useful. < 1493846101 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, any time you play an instant... I can have a card-searching ability on the stack and then get three (mono-)colored mana? < 1493846116 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't play it as a mana ability < 1493846128 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: huh what's the context? < 1493846132 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at the Lion's Eye Diamond
< 1493846159 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it says "Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant." < 1493846172 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, that's because without that clause, it would be a mana ability < 1493846184 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can activate mana abilities in times other than when you get priority, < 1493846186 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I just said < 1493846204 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically when you have to pay the cost for a spell, or when an effect asks you to pay an optional cost < 1493846219 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a tough restriction in that context < 1493846223 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be way overpowered without that < 1493846226 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "lion's eye diamond" super great combo that wins the game real good < 1493846227 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/181840-led-griselbrand-a-more-resilient-turn-1-combo-deck < 1493846227 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: LED Griselbrand - A more resilient turn 1 combo deck - Developing (Legacy) - ... < 1493846228 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still overpowered this way < 1493846246 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you can still spend that mana on activated abilities of permanents, and lots of other things < 1493846273 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even with such a serious restriction, three mana NOW for a card is too good < 1493846478 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, flashback. < 1493846538 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is aparently a gogle docs worm now < 1493846559 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats google, you're now as secure as microsoft outlook < 1493846579 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: flashback turns the discarded cards into a benefit. I had a small chance of seeing this. < 1493846600 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's one way of using it too < 1493846616 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the best < 1493846629 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depending on the format and environment) < 1493846740 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Does this mean my grandpa's got the most secure email system, because he still uses Pegasus and no virus-writer can be bothered with it? < 1493846754 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probly < 1493846758 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use alpine < 1493846816 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the HTC thing on my 'phone, plus the gmail app it has which was last updated in 2011... < 1493846830 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: does alpine try to open an attachment with a preferred viewer application chosen from a large table of file types if you press a key on an attachment, without asking your permission to use a particular application? < 1493846870 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's an easy way an email program or browser can be insecure, if it lets you open files with a hundred other applications that are supposedly secure but inevitably some of them will be insecure < 1493847395 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to press a key for confimation after it tells you what program it's going to use < 1493847435 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I have it set to just save attachment < 1493847446 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I see < 1493847972 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1493848083 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1493848537 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1493848785 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493848859 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcqtwkgeuworns.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1493849273 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493850004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, well the question was when hanweir, the writhing township came out, though the question's not so important now < 1493850066 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1493850092 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom: that one is a meld card, so it definitely came out for the Eldritch Moon set, which was released in 2016-07. < 1493850116 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meld cards didn't exist before that set, so it's not a reprint of anything < 1493850126 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493850181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it seemed recent from the dates of the rulings < 1493850205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there wasn't a date for the actual card < 1493850622 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Hanweir, the Writhing < 1493850625 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hanweir, the Writhing Township \ Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi Ooze \ 7/4 \ Trample, haste \ Whenever Hanweir, the Writhing Township attacks, create two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror creature tokens that are tapped and attacking. \ [Melds from Hanweir Battlements and Hanweir Garrison.] \ EMN-R < 1493851065 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@96-68-128-250-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493851463 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493852587 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493852602 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of a programming language with an NP-complete lexer? < 1493852628 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on one which I think might be able to solve /both/ 3SAT and subset sum, in different parts of the lexer < 1493852713 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think I know such a language. < 1493852731 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, PPCG has really helped my esolanging < 1493852735 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to view parsers as unimportant < 1493852741 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're such an untapped vein for esoprogramming < 1493852746 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it would be rather unlikely to get exactly NP-complete. I mean, if you make a lexer that doesn't try to be efficient, then what stops it at NP? < 1493852761 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ability to lex the program by brute force < 1493852828 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language itself may possibly be uncomputable, not sure on that yet < 1493852854 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also meant to be practically useful < 1493852870 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the sense that you can write a language with a halting detector command, and have the implementation fail or infinite loop in some cases) < 1493852883 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yet the halting detector is still useful in the cases where it works) < 1493852943 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :halting detector => sure, M:tG does that < 1493852962 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like halting detectors don't exist < 1493852965 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just fail in some cases < 1493853019 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, you can probably make a language with an NP-complete lexer that doesn't seem too strained < 1493853048 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if the input isn't text < 1493853115 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the input is two strings, and is lexed to a sequence of tokens where each token corresponds to a pair of infixes from those two strings, but with different lengths < 1493853153 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infixes are ordered in both strings but you can't easily match the two strings to one another because they're variable length < 1493853189 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493853197 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. you have a sound file and a transcript (or a kanji string and a kana string), both somewhat ambiguous separately and parsed together. < 1493853207 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make sense? < 1493853212 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1493853220 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493853223 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:f433:aa5:1aa7:f9c6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493853228 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can make it NP-complete by allowing a large enough Post correspondence problem for it < 1493853237 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded of Post correspondence, which is TC, but that'd be the task of finding a sound file and transcript that correpsonded to each other but were the same file < 1493853247 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1493853262 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems hard because the sound file would be so much larger < 1493853266 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet they have to be the same size < 1493853273 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's realistic because in practical cases it may be difficult to pair them, but only for practical implementation reasons, not for P vs NP reasons < 1493853290 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? they don't have to be the same size < 1493853318 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you need someone who talks really fast < 1493853353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: in post correspondence, aren't you splitting up the same string two different ways? < 1493853357 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about languages without a well-defined lexing phase? < 1493853372 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, your example can solve subset sum without these silly requirements, either < 1493853378 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have tokens consisting of varying lengths of silence < 1493853388 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tokens would be like when you hear 'lead' in the sound file and see "lead" in the text, or 'led' in the sound file and "lead" in the text, or 'led' in the sound file and "led" in the text, or 'worshire' in the sound file and "worchestershire" in the text, or 'doubleyou' in the sound file and "w" in the text < 1493853402 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I guess those would tend to be self-modifying languages < 1493853406 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same string two different ways? no < 1493853410 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, C++ is one < 1493853416 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, let me get an exact definition from my shelf < 1493853447 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: with respect to the >> token? < 1493853463 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL's another example where the lexing depends on the parsing < 1493853467 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in C-INTERCAL < 1493853501 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think >> itself is NP-hard, but normal identifier disambiguation might be < 1493853531 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: oh, I thought you were talking about lexing not being a defined phase < 1493853533 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's normally considered not part of lexing < 1493853538 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the problem I'm thinking of, which may not be PCP, the output is a token string, the problem has for each possible token from the token alphabet has a single corresponding variable length upper string and lower string, and has an upper string and a lower string, < 1493853546 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know, C++'s uncomputable parse is a parsing issue, not a lexing issue < 1493853556 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the output is correct if when you replace the output with upper or lower strings resp, you get the upper and lower string from the input respectively. < 1493853579 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each token (word) has a pronunciation and a spelling, and the input has a catenated pronunciation string and a catenated spelling string that you have to splity < 1493853603 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCP is about producing one string using two different sets of words, in such a way that you always choose the corresponding words from each set < 1493853622 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCP's also TC rather than being NP-complete < 1493853632 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume you're thinking of something different in a different complexity class < 1493853642 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pcp < 1493853644 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illogical in many places, but research has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem. < 1493853646 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see. Post correspondence problem is page 226 in Rónyai–Ivanyos–Szabó. (reads) < 1493853665 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp correspondence < 1493853701 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're right. what I was thinking of isn't Post's correspondence problem < 1493853705 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1493853721 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one I was thinking of isn't even NP-hard. it's actually polynomially solvable. < 1493853722 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp correspondence < 1493853724 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter:An interpreter (Latin "inter-", Old French "prestre") is unofficial correspondence between ordained members of the Church. < 1493853734 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1493853734 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thwackego < 1493853735 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thwackego: not found < 1493853751 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-198-189.omni.lt PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pcr < 1493853752 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pcr: not found < 1493853757 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to make an NP-complete one then? < 1493853758 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@md-188-69-198-189.omni.lt PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pcr < 1493853759 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1493853813 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem says "Not to be confused with the other Post's problem on the existence of incomparable r.e. Turing degrees." < 1493853824 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's the same Post! Shouldn't it say "Post's other problem"? < 1493853872 0 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1493853900 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, hmm; suppose you have a language where there's no whitespace between tokens < 1493853909 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and variable names can be declared, becoming tokens < 1493853933 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and? < 1493853938 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say you have a curried function call syntax, so a bunch of variable names in a row is entirely reasonable < 1493853955 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone could define a bunch of variables made entirely out of a single letter < 1493853963 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now parsing a long row of that letter is the subset sum problem < 1493853998 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, you can use the same variable twice, not sure if that makes a difference (my guess is no) < 1493854002 0 :fungot`!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1493854018 0 :Riviera__!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1493854034 0 :scoofy_!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1493854048 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh subset sum isn't NP-complete in unary < 1493854069 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(irrelevant: for making multiple variable names in a row valid, curried function call syntax isn't the only good reason: you can have implicit commas like lisp/scheme, or implicit subscript like in metafont) < 1493854077 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: subset sum is base-independent < 1493854125 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493854128 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493854135 0 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493854136 0 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1493854139 0 :zemhill___!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1493854146 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, incoming netsplit? < 1493854146 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, Jafet has a valid point there. it's not NP-complete to break your sequence of letter x to given tokens made of given numbers of letter x, because you write the sum in unary then < 1493854163 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, the problem here is about defining n < 1493854170 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than about the actual difficulty of the problem < 1493854191 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in unary, thus it takes 2**n characters to write the problem down < 1493854202 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that gives you the exponential time you need to solve it < 1493854211 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1493854230 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the time to solve is only quadratic in the length of the problem, if you write the problem down in unary < 1493854251 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1493854257 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, I'm saying that "the length of the problem" is artifically increased by writing the numbers in unary < 1493854274 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :^raw NICK fungot < 1493854275 0 :fungot`!?@? NICK :fungot < 1493854282 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that the complexity class is "lower" because n is exponentially larger < 1493854294 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, there's no way to remove underscores from zemhill. :/ < 1493854305 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so we're back at the original question. how to make a natural-sounding language where lexing is NP-complete. < 1493854316 0 :Riviera__!?@? NICK :Riviera < 1493854320 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it so that when you write a joustbot, the . commands get echoed to IRC? < 1493854356 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in what order? < 1493854368 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution order, I guess? I wasn't being serious though < 1493854378 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what order among multiple games? < 1493854405 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the written characters depend on what the other player is (and on polarty) < 1493854424 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, writing all the . commands would be excessive given how bfjoust works < 1493854467 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1493855102 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1493855183 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if you can write tokens in any order, the lexer has to find the order of the tokens, and it has to find a Hamilton path in a general digraph, because the tokens somehow constrain which token can follow which other token, but in a general enough way that you can encode basically any digraph. < 1493855219 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1493855235 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems difficult to pull off < 1493855269 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. the input is a set of poem lines, each on one punch card, dropped on the floor, each line of the poem must share a word with the previous line, and the lexer has to reconstruct the poem < 1493855274 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "two adjacent tokens must have at least one character in common" would possibly work? I think you can encode arbitrary graphs (not digraphs) like that < 1493855288 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that works, at least if you have enough characters < 1493855295 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with just 26 characters or so < 1493855306 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too easy to solve that way < 1493855318 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I'd say words instead < 1493855329 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell if it counts as a "lexer" then < 1493855347 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1493855377 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each statement sharing a word with the previous one isn't such an unnatural requirement for programming, since that word can often be a variable used as input for one and output for the other < 1493855441 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the obvious implication < 1493855445 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what do the other words do? < 1493855469 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other inputs to function called? < 1493855473 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, dunno < 1493855475 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really work < 1493855544 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why don't they connect together/ < 1493855566 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't connect together? < 1493855568 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :this relates to an old idea I had for a haskell extension, where you could write anything you wanted without brackets as long as there was exactly one well-typed combination < 1493855598 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the common words in non-adjacent commands < 1493855605 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I like that < 1493855607 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a lexer would use syntactic rather than type constraints < 1493855613 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever implement it, or was it just an idea? < 1493855639 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Hmm, this means that adding a new instance can make a program invalid. < 1493855641 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think implementing it is trivial, even in haskell2010 < 1493855672 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in Haskell 2010 you can't infer all types. < 1493855679 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is the kind of thing you invent when you get tired of having to align all your code < 1493855686 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jafet: Hmm, this means that adding a new instance can make a program invalid. ← there are plenty of languages where that's true < 1493855702 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But Haskell goes to a lot of trouble to make it not true. < 1493855711 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have vague plans for a syntax that lets you write most (not all) combinations of function calls without parenthesis or other punctuation, but that one is different, it is easy in a computational sense to parse, there's no ambiguity, not even a local one that's resolved later. < 1493855739 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a generalization of the postscript/forth/logo syntax where the parser knows how many argument each function has < 1493855752 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, how's that called, of RPN syntax < 1493855765 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix < 1493855770 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1493855772 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix or prefix < 1493855791 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPN is a bit ambiguous, it can either refer to postfix notation or to concatenative stack based languages < 1493855797 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix and prefix would be good vocabulary to use about bug fixes. < 1493855802 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the latter aren't strictly postfix because you can screw with the stack) < 1493855812 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1493855819 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can make a prefix stack language, but maybe you can? < 1493855830 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the operands would have to pop operators from the stack rather than the other way round < 1493855832 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wonder if a lexer is already NP-complete if keywords can overlap each other (to a greater extent than, say, > and >> tokens overlap in C) < 1493855841 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is < 1493855853 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the interpreter can just read the tokens from right to left < 1493855866 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean, in a way that stack manipulation is reasonable < 1493855876 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ : 2 3 4, where : is duplicate, should result in 9 < 1493855886 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does + 2 : 3 4 do? < 1493855938 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see; clearly + 2 produces an "add 2" value < 1493855949 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: a number of internal formats (for things like video game scenarios) use lists of comma-separated tokens, which are parsed this way < 1493855956 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and giving it another argument pops two operators from the stack (the add 2 and the operator below) and gives 2 + the argument to the operator below < 1493855985 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so + : 2 3 4 → + + 2 3 4 → + +2 3 4 → +5 4 → (give 9 to the operator below) < 1493855990 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally, some of those formats use only decimal numbers as tokens, which makes the code impossible to read