00:18:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:21:38 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50741&oldid=50738 * Oerjan * (+0) Order! 00:21:51 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:32:33 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:34:30 @messages-blood 00:34:30 int-e said 7h 45m 40s ago: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170106 http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170116 ... am I the only one who's expecting that "Queen of the 00:34:30 Dawn" to stab Martellus any moment now? 00:35:36 @tell int-e hm i hadn't thought of that, i was assuming she'd try to wasp him or whatever she's done to control the northern sparks 00:35:36 Consider it noted. 00:47:50 Helm, the wiki doesn't support SVG 00:48:29 I made an svg of K_5- that I can't find a place to put, and I thought of going for the wiki (it'd probably have use elsewhere as well), but the wiki doesn't seem to support svg 00:49:40 * oerjan points at fizzie 00:49:59 anyone else probably can't fix it. 00:50:12 Wait, it's a derivative of a Wikipedia one, so it can't go on the wiki, can it... 00:50:12 (well technically Gregor could) 00:50:21 that's true. 00:50:42 Fuck. 00:51:45 I have access, but I didn't set it up and know nothing about its setup/configuration/etc. 00:51:59 thus "technically" 00:52:08 Indeed. 00:52:23 I just migrated it over, and know next to nothing about MediaWiki, but I'm a bit surprised at not having SVG support. Maybe it needs a thing. 00:52:51 Apparently it still needs to be explicitly enabled. 00:53:02 (And the SVG converter selected.) 00:54:51 i'd have thought someone would have used SVG already - there are all kinds of pictures on the wiki these days. 00:55:19 (or so i hear) 00:56:06 oerjan: same idea, stabbing just sounds more dramatic ;) 00:56:57 oerjan: Yes, but they're all jeipegs, pengs or jiffs. 00:57:07 Possibly because we haven't enabled SVG support. 00:57:44 fizzie: are you trying to give people pronunciation aneurysms, it won't work on me though 00:58:34 use tiff, the pronouncible image format! 00:59:19 *ea 01:00:23 (I think that's about the only positive thing that can be said about tiff, unless you count flexibility as an advantage) 01:00:52 you know, the "union of N standards" kind of flexibiity. 01:01:25 I believe it's still somehow the high-bit-depth image format everyone uses. 01:05:08 Das tiffste Format 01:05:40 hmm, why am I playing gplanarity... 01:05:43 I believe 16-bits-per-channel PNGs were a thing all the way from PNG 1.0, and still people put that stuff in tiffs. 01:06:31 There's a planarity game in the sgtatham puzzle collection. 01:06:56 I play it on my phone sometimes. 01:08:20 but gplanarity has the twist that many levels are actually based on crossing numbers 01:09:32 fizzie: Yeah, I saw that 01:09:33 I think I played gplanarity as well. It's definitely more elaborate. 01:09:46 so you get "Objective: 3 intersections" or "Objective: fewer than 7 intersections" 01:09:58 fizzie: It needs to be turned on, but it doesn't appear to need an extension or anything crazy 01:10:59 Well, it does need a converter for rendering. Though the (un-recommended) ImageMagick is probably on already. 01:11:14 (and you get bonus points for lower numbers of intersections, argh) 01:33:34 -!- otherbot has joined. 01:34:34 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:55 -!- otherbot has joined. 01:37:43 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:38:00 -!- otherbot has joined. 01:50:26 -!- propumpkin has joined. 01:53:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:21:51 `? hppavilion1 02:22:07 higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed 02:22:13 Oh, I dropped my []s D: 02:22:18 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 02:22:45 much better 02:25:43 `wisdom hppa 02:25:45 hppavilion1//higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed 02:29:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:31:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:59 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:34:16 -!- otherbot has joined. 03:02:56 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 03:16:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:21:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:34:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 03:44:44 `? oerjan 03:44:50 Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:44:59 WHERE ARE YOUR []S 03:45:19 izabera: AAAAGH 03:46:55 oerjan: Do you ever say 'Uff da' (sometimes also spelled huffda, uff-da, uffda, uff-dah, oofda, ufda, ufdah, oofta, or uf daa) 03:48:10 nowhere near as commonly as the minnesotan stereotype, i hear 03:48:30 also i would say "uff då" in my dialect. 03:49:52 oerjan: Nyorsk or Bokmål? 03:50:10 nynorsk and bokmål aren't dialects hth 03:50:26 although it's accidentally identical to the nynorsk spelling, i think 03:50:35 Oh 03:51:29 * hppavilion1 is 1000000000 ppb Norwegian on his father's side 03:52:12 Oh, maybe not 03:52:16 i speak a northern norwegian dialect. we tend to chop off suffixes on things... 03:52:51 especially the infinitive. 03:54:55 i suppose i would use "uff då" more if i was the kind of person to try hard not to swear... 03:55:14 it's really sort of a very weak euphemism. 03:55:59 * \oren\ is ~10% irish but doesn't knwo any irish 03:56:43 <\oren\> I barely know any french either. 04:04:06 -!- augur has joined. 04:06:59 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50742&oldid=50741 * Dpleshkov * (+86) /* Introductions */ 04:07:11 [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50743 * Dpleshkov * (+538) A two-command esoteric language 04:08:53 [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50744&oldid=50743 * Dpleshkov * (-9) 04:10:39 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50745&oldid=50688 * Dpleshkov * (+18) /* M */ 04:22:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:29:29 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50746&oldid=50742 * Oerjan * (+0) ORDER, i said 04:30:09 suddenly there are two in a day who put it at the beginning. 04:37:03 -!- augur has joined. 04:38:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:47:27 -!- augur has joined. 04:58:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:02:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:05:33 -!- propumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:15:10 Huh. Norway might be the easiest country to immigrate to, legally speaking, period. 06:19:25 * oerjan surprised 06:22:22 i haven't really been paying attention though 06:24:28 If you don't mind being Svalbard, the requirements to move to Norway are: afford a plane ticket. 06:24:38 oh svalbard 06:24:48 *being in Svalbard. 06:24:48 yeah, of course. 06:25:21 just be aware that you're then not included in the general norwegian welfare system. 06:25:26 True. 06:25:40 But, 7 years later you can apply for citizenship. 06:25:55 Which, granted, seems like *more* than sufficient payment in exchange for living there. :P 06:26:01 heh 06:30:18 Of course, I imagine it's a bit tricky being *employed* in Svalbard. 06:33:47 i vaguely think there are various research facilities. 06:33:52 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 06:34:34 -!- hppavilion2 has joined. 06:35:00 Yes, I was more referring to the fact that it's sparsely populated. 06:35:01 Testing 06:35:08 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 06:35:18 2,600 people "sparse". 06:35:25 pikhq: TESTING 06:35:30 hppavilion[1]: Pong 06:35:31 @massages-lud 06:35:31 boily said 3d 18h 21m 29s ago: hppavellon[1]. please peruse the unbracketed message. 06:35:50 Dammit, hppavilion1 is not a registered nickname 06:35:53 So I can't ghost it 06:36:11 Helm, my computer says I have no internet 06:36:13 But I'm here 06:36:14 So 06:37:08 hppavilion1 should time out aaaaaanyyyy second now 06:37:26 it's connecting from the same ip you are, there ought to be _some_ way for you to kill it :P 06:37:32 oerjan: I know 06:37:33 But 06:37:42 I only have one instance of HexChat open 06:37:52 Of course, *sparsely* populated is different from "literally no population": there are in fact real, permanent jobs in Svalbard, and if you really wanted to you certainly could move there and live there as long as you felt like. 06:37:54 * hppavilion[1] notes that e needs to readd his CTCP replies 06:38:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:38:15 YEEEEESSSS 06:38:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to hppavilion1. 06:38:22 THERE CAN BE ONLY n 06:38:27 (please solve for n) 06:38:30 @massages-lud 06:38:30 You don't have any messages 06:38:32 ... 06:38:36 *sigh* 06:38:48 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion2. 06:38:51 Test 06:38:57 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 06:38:58 -_- 06:39:12 pikhq: I REALLY WANT TO 06:40:05 hppavilion[1]: Well, as I was previously discussing, here is how you move to Svalbard: get a job there. Move. 06:40:20 pikhq: Interesting strategy... 06:40:24 You, yes you, have the legal right to permanently live in Svalbard. 06:43:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:43:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:43:57 *sigh* 06:55:46 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:55:59 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:15:56 so svalbard is like the bay area, then? 07:51:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:33:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:33:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:41:07 -!- augur has joined. 08:57:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:09:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:09:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:55:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:03:43 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 10:03:50 -!- ^v has joined. 11:00:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:27:39 -!- Akaibu has joined. 11:33:49 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3592.html heh heh heh heh heh 11:33:57 smitten 11:42:00 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:44:57 -!- ^v has joined. 11:45:36 the part I'm wondering is if legally living in Svalbard counts toward getting a permit for living in Norway 11:48:02 "Generally, it is possible to naturalise as a Norwegian citizen after residing in Norway seven years over the last ten years, if the applicant qualifies for permanent residence and does not have a criminal record.[citation needed]" 12:06:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:07:25 -!- ^v has joined. 12:11:35 -!- Morph1 has joined. 12:12:48 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:14:27 -!- ^v has joined. 12:39:50 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:40:32 -!- ^v has joined. 13:06:51 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:09:51 -!- ^v has joined. 13:24:47 Hello greetings to all 13:27:49 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:28:35 -!- augur has joined. 13:29:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:30:06 wait, I don't get this. 13:30:11 this may be the first time I've used the underscore in months or even years? 13:30:35 @seen ais523_ 13:30:35 AI$523_ 13:30:40 ? 13:30:47 does Aether Revolt (the latest expert M:tG expansion set) have two different Ajani Planeswalkers, none of which are reprints? and why? 13:30:56 b_jonas: sort of 13:31:10 one of them is from an introductory set called Aether Revolt: Planeswalker Decks 13:31:14 Neither of them are double-faced or flip or anything, right? 13:31:23 the cards in it are intentionally underpowered in order to prevent anyone but new players wanting htem 13:31:25 *them 13:31:41 but they like to include a planeswalker in the decks because planeswalkers are splashy and new players like owning them 13:31:48 ais523: ah yes, planeswalker decks, that thing that replaces core sets 13:31:51 so it's an intentionally powered-down planeswalker for the purpose of the product 13:31:59 it's Standard-legal but won't appear in boosters 13:32:04 that would explain it 13:32:30 no wait 13:32:37 that's "Welcome Decks" 13:32:40 now I'm confused 13:32:55 well, the explanation makes sense to me at the most superficial level 13:32:58 all these stupid products they're doing 13:33:05 however it's an indicator of deeper decisions that may be harder to explain 13:33:24 planeswalker decks are the replacement for duel decks I think 13:34:02 I concluded that Welcome Decks are basically the continuation of core sets, only they don't come with boosters 13:34:21 they're very different from core sets 13:34:38 core sets used to be where they printed basic effects like Lightning Strike in order to ensure that they stayed in Standard 13:35:05 welcome decks are basically just a small selection of cards to act as a teaser for new players to get them excited, they're given away for free 13:35:25 planeswalker decks are the entrance-level paid product, but are very weak 13:35:29 ais523_: and? don't Welcome Decks contain such basic effects too? they're standard and modern legal for a while. 13:35:45 not at any level of power 13:36:09 this has indirectly lead to removal becoming very weak recently, which might indirectly have lead to the bannings 13:37:21 I see... 13:38:10 incidentally, I predicted a while ago that there'd be standard bannings while Kaladesh block was in Standard, but I didn't realise they'd come so soon 13:38:43 and it's at least partly a side effect of BFZ block being terrible and SOI block being balanced incorrectly, rather than of Kaladesh block itself 13:40:29 * ais523_ wonders why Java has a UnicastRemoteObject but no other sorts of RemoteObject, the "Unicast" qualifier looks a lot like it's disambiguating something but it apparently has nothing to disambiguate? 13:45:06 ais: Magic 2015 and Origins have extra cards that don't occur in boosters but only in precon decks, are all reprints, are standard (and modern) legal for as long as the core set is, and are printed with the expansion symbol of the core set. they're not cards most players want. I assume that Welcome Deck is a continuation of the same thing, because it's also all precon decks, no boosters, all reprints, standard legal for a rotation, they just don't have a 13:45:14 \ I assume that Welcome Deck is a continuation of the same thing, because it's also all precon decks, no boosters, all reprints, standard legal for a rotation, they just don't have an associated core set. 13:46:43 Welcome Deck 2016 is that product, I assume it'll be a series of products because it has a number, it's published about a year after Origins. 13:47:46 Welcome Deck 2016 apparently has 5 decks of 30 cards each, although I couldn't find decklists of them, but 30 cards is ridiculous if it was really intended to be played as precon decks, after they specifically made core sets starting from M2010 (IIRC) have 60 card precon decks rather than 40 card ones so that players can play them immediately. 13:48:39 As for the Planeswalker Decks, I don't understand what they are, so I'm fine believing they're like duel decks, some of which also had planeswalkers. 13:49:52 Welcome Decks are purely intended for new players to get an idea of what the game is like, I think they're only meant to be played against other Welcome Decks 13:49:58 Planeswalker decks are 60 card decks with slightly fancy packaging, so that's quite possible. 13:51:17 "only meant to be played against other Welcome Decks" => that sounds sort of strange. I mean, if you want to give new players a feel of what the game is like, then a deck they can customize by replacing cards and still play sounds like it would be a better idea (even if they aren't actually _good_ at deckbuilding yet) 13:52:05 they want people to spend money at that point :-P 13:52:13 the point is that the Welcome Decks are given away for free 13:52:39 http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/ramp-approval-2016-05-16 says "The cards in [Welcome Decks] are Standard-legal and you can combine any two sample decks to make a deck legal at a Standard tournament." 13:56:43 "Java has a UnicastRemoteObject but no other sorts of RemoteObject, the "Unicast" qualifier looks a lot like it's disambiguating something but it apparently has nothing to disambiguate?" => could be a disambiguation against potential future additions? 13:57:17 it's possible, I guess 13:57:40 I'm not even sure what a MulticastRemoteObject or BroadcastRemoteObject would be semantically, thoguh 13:57:43 *though 13:58:53 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:59:50 ais523_: as an example, the C++14 standard has classes mutex, timed_mutex, and shared_timed_mutex. timed means you can do a timed wait on it, which isn't the default because it gives overhead even if you don't use that feature; shared means it's a read-write lock. 14:00:27 there's no shared_mutex in that standard, but they opted to put "timed" into shared_timed_mutex because they decided maybe in the future they'd add a non-timed shared_mutex. 14:00:47 and shared_mutex is indeed planned for the future C++17 standard. 14:15:45 The first M:tG product I bought was the blue-black theme deck of Coldsnap, called "Snowscape". This one includes 23 snow-covered basic lands, and they're really needed too, because a lot of cards care about snow mana or snow permanents, Rimewind Taskmage the most importantly. 14:17:27 huh, you started only just after me, then (I started with 9th edition, which is 4 sets earlier) 14:17:41 but I gave up early during Lorwyn and haven't continued since 14:17:41 The snow lands are the most expensive part of the deck, costing more than the rares. No wonder, since they're almost always better than basic lands, which is something Wizards rarely dares to do, and they aren't legendary. 14:18:14 basically because I got my cards via booster packs and I didn't see anything to inspire me in the first few Lorwyn boosters I opened 14:18:33 I didn't say I _started_ then. It's the first product I owned, not the first one I played. I started one earlier, during Dissension. 14:18:43 oh, even closer then 14:19:28 I admit I rather like Coldsnap, even if most people consider it to have been a bad idea 14:19:48 cards like Martyr of Sands and Rite of Flame are both really interesting (although Rite of Flame ended up getting banned in Modern...) 14:20:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:21:50 (I know it's Dissension, not earlier in the Ravnica block, becuase Sky Hussar was in the first decks I played with.) 14:23:30 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: system upgrade). 14:23:56 I also think the snow lands are sort of a bad idea. Think about it: you need 23 to build your deck, this applies to a lot of decks, because even in decks that have less of a snow theme than this precon, they're almost surely better than ordinary basic lands, but they're distributed only as commons. It's the same mistake as early core sets made by distributing basic lands only as commons, 14:24:49 except by the time of Coldsnap they should have known about this problem. 14:26:07 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:28:17 It's worse than when they printed tribal themes that require you to get 30 elves or 30 clerics or 30 soldiers for your deck, because there's only five snow-covered basic lands (there are other snow mana producers but they aren't nearly as good as basics), whereas there are tons of different elves and soldiers and clerics in lots of previous sets. 14:28:43 when snow lands were originally printed, there were a bunch of snow land hosers printed at the same time 14:28:48 to make it a decision whether you wanted them or not 14:28:58 by Coldsnap, though, they decided that was a bad iae 14:29:01 *idea 14:29:25 anyway, one of the issues I have with Magic is that the average quality of a playable land appears to be higher than that of a basic land 14:29:31 in most formats, people hardly use basics 14:29:49 maybe one or two to allow for enemy nonbasic hosers 14:30:25 also, I think Boreal Druid and Scrying Sheets are probably the best nonbasic snow mana producers 14:31:41 there are a few snow land hosers, sure, but not many 14:34:53 and the problem isn't only snow mana producers, but also Snow permanents and Snow lands, because this theme deck has a lot of cards caring about that: Rimewind Taskmage (of which the precon has 3 but you want 4 really), Balduvian Frostwaker, Rimefeather Owl, Heidar etc. 14:35:08 anyway, the snow lands are fairly balanced, in that they have a notable opportunity cost (you can't run nonbasics instead) 14:35:38 but this is more an issue with nonbasics being broken than with snow lands being nonbroken 14:36:21 High Tide plays a bunch of blue-fetching lands even though it has nothing but Islands to fetch, for example (mostly for the free shuffle) 14:36:31 and they have a lot of functionality on top of that! 14:37:42 "the average quality of a playable land appears to be higher than that of a basic land" => isn't that in a large part because of ravnica rare dual lands, which also raise the value of the one and half search land cycles? 14:38:12 I think the fetch lands are better even in the abstract than the shock lands 14:38:26 -!- Morph1 has left. 14:38:31 however, filter lands are also considered very good (it's just that fetch, shock, and Alpha duals are better) 14:39:18 It's true that even if you only buy cheap cards like me, nonbasic lands are often worth in many decks, 14:39:21 and fastlands (the ones that come into play tapped if you already have too many other lands) are playable in Modern as well 14:39:34 both because they're flexible, as in, I can buy a nonbasic once and put it to many different decks, 14:40:51 and because some really seem almost better than basic lands in some decks (I've used Ancient Ziggurat even though I'm not even building sliver decks). 14:42:22 `card-by-name Ancient Ziggurat 14:42:38 Ancient Ziggurat \ Land \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a creature spell. \ CON-U, H09-U 14:42:48 that doesn't seem very sliver-related 14:42:58 although I guess sliver decks tend to have a higher proportion of creatures than most 14:43:02 (I also used Terramorphic Expanse for color fixing and free shuffle, but I haven't manged to make that deck work well YET, so it doesn't count.) 14:43:26 what set is H09, anyway? I'm guessing CON is Conspiracy 1? 14:43:45 CON is Conflux (in the Alara block) 14:43:52 ah right 14:44:20 I guess a syllable duplication would be inevitable by now 14:44:36 cough Legends Legions cough 14:44:53 that's not a duplicated syllable, just a duplicated first three characters :-P 14:45:13 It's true that sliver decks have a lot of creatures, but that's also true to many other tribal decks like elf decks; but also Sliver decks are often multicolor (there are two-color, three-color, and five-color versions), and they're very easy to build powerful in casual constructed. 14:47:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:47:54 Two-color ones might not need anything special apart from the Gemhide/Manaweft sliver you almost certainly put in any sliver decks, but three-color sliver decks want a lot of color fixing, and the Ziggurat and Cavern of Souls help a lot there. 14:48:23 the best deck I own is a five-colour sliver deck that's base green 14:48:31 it fixes just fine on /just/ Gemhides 14:48:43 and a fairly random assortment of lands, and a couple of Coalition Relics 14:48:55 (Manaweft Sliver hadn't been printed at the time) 14:49:00 And the Ziggurat is cheap because it got printed as uncommon, unlike many of the more powerful color fixers. (Ravnica has the karoos and the signets as a big exception.) 14:49:02 (although it's better in basically every case) 14:50:26 And the deal is, sliver decks were already good in casual before Time Spiral, and they've printed more slivers in the Time Spiral block and M14 and M15 since, which made them better. 14:52:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:52:45 ais523_: how much does that five-color sliver deck need many colors early? 14:53:01 most of its early plays are gemhide sliver and virulent sliver 14:53:13 the red and white cards are mostly toolbox cards 14:53:36 it's mostly aiming to play dormant sliver and then go into an infinite loop (the virulent slivers are to force the opponent to spend their removal early) 14:53:48 I see 14:54:00 I might consider adding Beck to the deck if I ever updated it to a Modern version 14:54:36 because the basic idea is that if you have gemhide + basal sliver, plus a sliver that gives haste 14:54:41 plus dormant sliver 14:54:50 each sliver you play gives you back 2 black mana + 1 of any colour 14:54:54 plus a card 14:54:59 so you can pretty much just churn through your deck 14:55:28 (the more slivers you have in hand and the more lands on the battlefield you have, the less likely it is to fizzle out) 14:55:45 it also plays Wild Pair, which is fairly easy to find because you're churning through the deck so far 14:55:59 and basically immediately wins when you play it, unless the opponent can beat you or destroy the enchantment before your next turn 14:57:09 Beck => interesting idea. I used Distant Melody and Ideas Unbound to churn through a deck quickly. These work even as a splash in a deck that's not very blue, because you play them late. 14:57:29 the deck generates so much mana that it could probably cast Beck//Call on occasion too 14:57:53 (Thoughtcast and perhaps Keep Watch could also help for this.) 14:58:47 But Beck and Dormant Sliver are better because you can repeat it by bouncing permanents. Just like the Soul sisters. 14:58:58 the deck had one Whitemane Lion in it 14:59:02 there are probably better choices for that nowadays 14:59:06 ih 14:59:31 I've even played against an entire white deck that tries to have a lot of bounces (including Norin) and lot of triggers for when a permanent etb (not only the Sould Sisters). 15:00:17 Um... that doesn't square. Probably not a _white_ deck then, if it includes Norin. 15:01:10 you're thinking of Norin Soul Sisters 15:01:17 it is a primarily white deck, it splashes red for Norin 15:01:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:04:12 It's not only Soul Sisters, it has some other cards to trigger stuff. 15:05:08 The Soul sisters are the least surprising card really: those cards are just too good in casual because they work in many different decks, and lifegain is worth more in casual constructed than in competitive formats probably. 15:05:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:05:36 (Congregate is a bit similar.) 15:06:10 lifegain is really good against aggro, that's what normally causes it to be played competitively 15:06:25 as a method of surviving the early onslaught of aggro decks and burn decks 15:08:15 ais523_: there's also that casual games last for more turns than competitive ones, have many creatures in play more often because less board sweep, multiplayer casual games last especially longer, and the soul sisters and congregate like when other players use creatures too, which happens more in casual and even more in multiplayer. 15:08:58 oh, everyone uses lots of creatures in Standard nowadays 15:09:11 because they're so powerful compared to the other card types (except arguably planeswalkesr) 15:10:05 Don't they also use board sweepers (as in Day of Judgment) in standard, as opposed to casual? 15:10:25 no, there are no good board sweepers in standard 15:10:47 I remember back in the old days before the soul sisters came out, we even used the Angel's Feather cycle for lifegain, which is similarly better in multiplayer. 15:11:02 ihh 15:11:18 rdococ: are you complaining that the conversation's offtopic? 15:12:11 no, I'm reversing hi and duplicating the h 15:12:31 fair enough 15:12:44 I actually have ideas for a dupdog/xigxag-alike at the moment 15:12:48 but haven't worked out the exact rules 15:13:42 _325siaa 15:14:37 ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]>.!rdococ 15:14:37 cocodrr 15:17:11 ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]>.! 15:17:12 tognuff 15:17:26 dnahdss 15:19:46 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:25:43 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:26:18 -!- augur has joined. 15:26:48 -!- ^v has joined. 15:30:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:32:54 In the C++ standard library, how come std::mutex is 40 bytes long but std::once_flag is only 4 or 8 bytes long? I thought under they hood they'd be pretty much the same thing. 15:35:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:39:51 b_jonas: http://refspecs.linuxbase.org/LSB_3.1.1/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/libpthread-ddefs.html 15:40:08 (quick research showed that mutex is a wrapper around pthread_mutex_t on most posix platforms) 15:40:13 alercah: thanks, I'll look 15:42:29 "quick research showed that mutex is a wrapper around pthread_mutex_t on most posix platforms" => that would explain why it's big: pthread_mutex has to support timed waits, recursive mutexes, and error checking, whereas std::mutex needn't support those, and at least timed wait probably adds overhead even in the normal case 15:42:29 That sounds bad though. I don't want to pay for the overhead for timed mutexes when I make ordinary mutexes. 15:45:17 That's considered a QOI issue 15:45:19 That page doesn't reveal me how once_init works though 15:46:02 alercah: yes, and even though it's important, I think it's hard to fix without breaking ABI compatibility 15:47:22 b_jonas: https://llvm.org/svn/llvm-project/libcxx/trunk/include/mutex 15:47:23 b_jonas: https://llvm.org/svn/llvm-project/libcxx/trunk/include/mutex 15:47:26 oops, sorry 15:49:02 Though I guess the library might already be using the pthread_mutex in some way that isn't supported for posix where you don't pay the time penalty for the potential timed wait or error checking or recursive, but only a minor space penalty. 15:49:44 a quick peek into call_once shows that it has a global mutex 15:50:49 and a conditional variable... this code looks suspect to me actually 15:50:53 but I don't have time to investigate 15:56:38 alercah: thanks for the help anyway. I might try to look at implementations later. 16:05:00 presumably mutex::native_handle returns the underlying pthreads mutex 16:08:26 I hate the native_handle functions. The library should have had different names for the accessor functions of different possible underlying implementations, so that you get a better error message when you use one that doesn't apply to your system. 16:25:09 That would require exhaustive listing though 16:48:30 you could use a template to examine the return type 16:50:05 -!- Melvar has joined. 16:53:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:55:27 -!- ^v has joined. 17:03:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:09:59 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 17:11:38 -!- Marcela_Gandara has changed nick to Marcela_-. 17:12:15 -!- Marcela_- has left. 17:13:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:41:30 <\oren\> holy crap they're arresting the heir to samsung? 17:42:22 <\oren\> that's like, arresting the head of half their economy 18:06:13 not the heir, the ceo 18:20:16 man, watching shakespeare plays is weird 18:20:19 they feel so anachronistic 18:24:27 Hmm? They fit quite well into their own time, didn't they... 18:26:00 Probably the most anachronistic of them are the histories. 18:52:46 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 18:54:16 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:57:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:33:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:41:04 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:48:09 <^v> what language did this section of come from: "=[=]()->T*{" 19:48:31 <^v> guess right and you get 1 19:49:00 ^v: C++ 19:49:11 <^v> ding ding 19:49:35 The [=] starts a lambda, () is the argument list, ->T* is return type, { starts the body, = at the start is an assignment operator 19:49:40 um no 19:50:00 = at start is more likely the punctuation for initializing a variable, but whatever 19:50:13 The [=] really gives it away 19:50:23 <^v> full code https://hastebin.com/uhoyamecis.cpp 19:53:45 You can tell because C++ has []() too before the braces for a lambda, rust has || before a the braces, golang sometimes has -> before a lambda but just a bare brace block works too, ruby and smalltalk usually don't have anything before a lambda if it's a function argument but do if it's standalone. 19:55:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:58:07 I don’t remember go having a -> on a lambda … maybe it changed since I looked. 19:59:01 Melvar: I don't really do golang, so I could be wrong. I think I might be confusing it with digitalmars D language in fact. 19:59:39 (I know about ruby and perl and C++ syntaxes and it's complicated.) 20:04:22 Yeah in go it’s func(…) { … } or func(…) returntype { … } or func(…) (…) { … } 20:04:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:06:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:07:29 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 20:10:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:27:40 f(x) = 1 if the decimal representation of pi contains x consecutive zeros, 0 otherwise 20:27:47 prove that f is computable 20:35:18 iza: my guess is that proving that is beyond the current state of mathematics 20:35:26 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 20:37:27 nope! 20:39:05 I'm serious 20:39:57 -!- Marcela_- has left. 20:45:35 izabera: why, do you have a proof? 20:47:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:47:11 I believe there is a proof that every sequence of compatible digits appears in every base expansion of pi. 20:47:19 if pi contains any sequence of zeros, f(x) = 1 is a correct algorithm. if there's a max N such that N consecutive zeros appear in pi, then f(x) = x < N is a correct algorithm 20:47:41 Melvar: I think that's only a conjecture, and we're very far from the proof 20:47:57 izabera: ARGH duh 20:47:59 you're right 20:48:57 you're asking only about sequences of zeros, so you can hard-code the answer 20:56:51 int-e: they did, but they seem anachronistic because they use many modern idioms that we got from shakespeare 20:57:07 so it is a mix of archaic language that is hard to understand and modern expressions 20:58:24 izabera: heh 20:58:29 izabera: if you want more fun, look into graph minors 20:58:39 for every minor-closed class, there is an algorithm to decide membership 20:58:50 but finding the algorithm is in some cases not decidable 21:00:25 Oh yes, I’ve heard an anecdote where some young person coming out of a movie version of some Shakespeare play complained how full of clichés it was. 21:04:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:09:43 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:10:59 <\oren\> I hate shakespeare just because he's propped up as a great writer and there are a lot of modern works that are far superior 21:13:21 <\oren\> also, for some reason they think learning to read ancient english dialect is something essential to learning english literature 21:13:50 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 21:14:19 -!- Marcela_- has left. 21:15:18 <\oren\> they should translate shakespeare into modern english 21:15:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:16:19 a pedant might point out that people classify shakespeare as "modern english" already hth 21:16:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 21:16:57 it's sort of the dividing line actually 21:17:21 (from a linguistics point of view, it's actually quite incredible that works as old as shakespeares are still intelligible) 21:17:39 \oren\: I think part of the issue comes from the old British view of the classics in education 21:17:53 similar to teaching math using Euclid's Elementsa 21:17:56 it's intelligable mostly, I believe, because it was written in the time period when english was standardized 21:18:12 alercah: works much older than shakespeare are intelligible hth 21:18:23 shachaf: that's even more incredible ;0 21:18:27 *;0 21:18:29 dammit 21:18:32 *;) 21:18:51 inconceivable 21:18:55 <\oren\> alercah: shakespeare wasn't intelligeble to me without footnotes 21:19:08 \oren\: it's better live, actually 21:19:27 At least in the school system I went through, it was specifically required to do one shakespeare play per year for several years 21:19:35 Why? because shakespeare! 21:20:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Illuminati Confirmed * New user account 21:22:04 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 21:22:14 <\oren\> illuminati /o\ 21:22:54 -!- Marcela_- has left. 21:22:57 <\oren\> illuminati /ô\ 21:28:21 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 21:28:59 -!- Marcela_- has left. 21:29:08 [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50747&oldid=50572 * Ferrosurgeon * (+310) added problems to fix 21:29:42 ais523: ping 21:30:13 [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50748&oldid=50747 * Ferrosurgeon * (+47) finish parenthetical 21:38:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:49:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:51:09 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:01:48 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:12:17 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50749&oldid=50746 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+297) /* Introductions */ 22:12:28 [wiki] [[Faggit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50750 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+3975) Created page with "'''Faggit''' is a new special unuseful programming language. The main goal of '''Faggit''' is to say a random amount of times the world "Faggit" to the output. Dont try to use..." 22:14:44 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50751&oldid=50750 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+99) /* (Un)Useful specifications */ 22:15:58 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50752&oldid=50751 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+62) /* Wrinting a Faggit program */ 22:17:53 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50753&oldid=50752 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+82) /* Writing your awful unoptimized Faggit interpretor */ 22:18:09 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50754&oldid=50753 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+6) /* Conclusion */ 22:18:22 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50755&oldid=50754 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+6) /* Conclusion */ 22:19:21 oh lord 22:19:26 who're the wiki sysops? 22:23:02 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50756&oldid=50549 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+66) /* General languages */ 22:25:45 [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50757&oldid=50755 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+0) /* Faggit and the Illuminaties */ 22:36:42 tswett? 22:46:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:51:43 `olist 1063 22:52:06 olist 1063: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 22:54:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 22:55:15 -!- boily has joined. 22:57:55 `wisdom 22:59:03 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:02:19 uh. 23:02:33 Gregor: WHARGRHGHAHAHAHARGHGHGHGLARHGHGLLGLGLGLGLBLFLFLFLBLBLBLBLBL! 23:04:55 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:12:58 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:13:14 uh. 23:13:21 uh, not uh. `wisdom. 23:13:23 `wisdom 23:13:33 eyebrow//Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature. 23:13:37 `thanks Gregor 23:13:38 Thanks, Gregor. Thegor. 23:17:53 Literally did nothing. 23:18:51 a nothing that works is better than nothing. 23:29:38 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-Ye2L3ej8 23:30:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BROADWAY CHICKEN). 23:32:00 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 23:32:23 -!- Marcela_- has left. 23:51:34 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 23:52:35 -!- Marcela_- has left. 23:58:50 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.