00:04:21 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:07:21 <\oren\> What the hell is Six sigma, it sounds like a very nasty pyramid scheme 00:09:24 <\oren\> and why am I getting spam about it and how did they get my work email 00:13:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:15 What's your work email? 00:15:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:15:35 Oh, I think I guessed it. 00:18:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:25:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:25:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:27:06 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:16 спам по-русски 00:33:18 or should that be русский спам 00:33:53 `5 w 00:34:05 Hmm, `5 w should print 5 random welcomes. 00:34:15 ER 00:34:19 1/2:uaneb//Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. \ piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ redundancy//Since redundancy 00:34:40 -!- staffehn has joined. 00:34:43 shachaf: you could make it take an extra argument 00:34:59 `spam 00:35:02 2/2: exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it. 00:35:32 `dowt uaneb 00:35:49 9153:2016-10-05 learn Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. 00:35:58 `slwd piet//s/$// 00:36:06 piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. 00:36:16 or wait 00:36:18 good one 00:36:37 `slwd piet//s/..$/./ 00:36:40 piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. 00:37:03 or is that better with a colored period 00:37:15 language. 00:38:01 `? york 00:38:05 York used to be known as Amsterdam. 00:38:14 `? zork 00:38:15 Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it. 00:38:35 `` wisdom piet; wisdom אrjan 00:38:37 piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. 00:38:55 wat 00:39:43 that got messed up by the rtl stuff 00:40:14 ...but there's no way to fix that without changing the key, is there 00:40:29 `wisdom אrjan 00:40:30 ​אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. 00:41:06 it only happens when irssi wraps the א onto the beginning of the line, it seems :P 00:41:41 Makes sense. 00:42:06 `icode ℵ 00:42:09 ​[U+2135 ALEF SYMBOL] 00:42:10 `icode א 00:42:12 ​[U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF] 00:42:23 If you want, you can use ALEF SYMBOL instead of HEBREW LETTTER ALEF. 00:42:34 It won't force rtl. 00:43:40 `which q 00:43:42 ​/hackenv/bin/q 00:43:54 shachaf: oh, that may be better 00:44:08 `uniencode ALEF SYMBOL 00:44:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found 00:44:17 `unicode ALEF SYMBOL 00:44:19 ​ℵ 00:44:31 ...my terminal doesn't show that :( 00:44:37 Ah. 00:44:38 Mine does. 00:44:51 `unicode ALEF 00:44:59 U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF \ UTF-8: d7 90 UTF-16BE: 05d0 Decimal: א \ א \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: R (Right-to-Left) \ \ U+0616 ARABIC SMALL HIGH LIGATURE ALEF WITH LAM WITH YEH \ UTF-8: d8 96 UTF-16BE: 0616 Decimal: ؖ \ ؖ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \ 00:45:44 never mind, it's just a small random occurrence. 00:45:47 `cat bin/5 00:45:49 cmd=quote; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport 00:46:24 `type w 00:46:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found 00:46:32 `which w 00:46:34 ​/usr/bin/w 00:46:42 ...what's that. 00:46:43 `w 00:46:44 ​ 00:45:57 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT 00:46:47 oh right. 00:47:04 oh well, how often do we need that... 00:47:21 `` ln -s wisdom bin/w 00:47:26 No output. 00:50:43 ``whoami 00:50:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `whoami: not found 00:50:51 hm 00:50:52 ok 00:51:45 ``sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/ 00:51:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `sled: not found 00:51:52 `sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/ 00:51:56 bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport 00:52:02 argh 00:52:05 `revert 00:52:06 sled? 00:52:43 `sled bin/5//s/.*dom/cmd="${1-quote}"/ 00:52:59 *sigh* 00:53:19 DID SOMEONE DO SOMETHING TO HACKEGO 00:53:23 -!- computing has joined. 00:53:24 `echo hi 00:53:48 * oerjan looks at xa0 suspiciously 00:54:05 <\oren\> my font has both alephs and they are distinguihable 00:54:24 wasnme. 00:54:24 hi 00:54:26 bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport 00:54:27 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:54:39 lol 00:55:00 <\oren\> it always says that canary thing 00:55:48 <\oren\> `ls canary 00:55:52 canary 00:56:04 <\oren\> `file canary 00:56:07 canary: empty 00:56:09 oh wait, did things get done in the wrong order... 00:56:10 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:56:12 `before 00:56:26 bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport 00:56:33 `revert 00:56:35 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:56:46 `cat bin/5 00:56:47 cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport 00:58:13 `cat bin/` 00:58:15 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl 00:58:44 `sled bin/5//s/do/do eval --/ 00:58:47 bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport 00:58:52 `5 w 00:59:00 1/2:mockingbird//mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. \ burlesque//Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) \ galaxy//A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. \ alpha//Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the D 00:59:08 `5 w welcome 00:59:14 1/5:welcome.de//Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: . (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) \ welcome.eo//Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno 00:59:53 `mkx//bin/w//wisdom "$@" 00:59:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/mkx//bin/w//wisdom: No such file or directory 01:00:00 `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" 01:00:06 bin/w 01:00:15 a wonder i ever manage to type anything correctly 01:00:21 `5 w 01:01:35 seems like the repo browser is also slow 01:02:01 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:02:13 OKAY 01:03:04 `w 01:03:40 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:04:03 @tell fizzie HackEgo keeps locking up and seems to be having some trouble with forking... 01:04:03 Consider it noted. 01:04:31 Hum. 01:04:36 I was about to go to sleep. 01:05:15 There's an unimaginable number of "[python] "s in there. 01:05:28 Not sure if that's relevant. 01:05:53 I think I remember something about a missing wait. 01:06:28 ├─hackbot.freenod───socat───multibot───763*[python] 01:06:49 `ping 01:06:51 pong 01:06:59 Now there's one more. 01:07:55 I wouldn't expect that to be enough to cause problems though. 01:08:50 well the repo browser was also pretty slow 01:08:58 There's also again a bunch of "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#0 stuck for 38s!"s, which I hadn't seen in a bit. 01:09:11 `w 01:09:36 763 is unimaginable? 01:09:46 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:09:53 `wisdom 01:10:09 shachaf: Look, it seemed like a lot in a 'ps'. 01:10:31 No output. 01:10:39 that must have timed out 01:10:53 i guess it may be just pooch slow 01:11:00 do you guys know about a (somewhat old) game about making magic spells by adding a syllable every turn? 01:11:20 I read about that a few years ago on some nomic-related site 01:11:34 . o O ( you know shachaf's pooches are getting to you when you substitute dog yourself just to keep him from doing it ) 01:12:36 fizzie: Didn't they teach you at your job to be slightly mocking of numbers that seem large to others? 01:12:56 shachaf: Yeah, I just didn't check the actual number before I said anything. 01:13:10 Anyway, it's not like HackEgo's running on our infrastructure. 01:14:38 The multibot process does have a less-than-overall-system rlimit of 7971 processes from somewhere. 01:14:56 Maybe I should just stop and restart it. 01:15:22 fizzie: You could always move it to Google Cloud. 01:15:42 I've thought about that once or thrice. But it's not really my bot. 01:18:03 <\oren\> it always says that canary thing <-- fizzie has sent a pull request to Gregor, but it hasn't been merged 01:18:45 oerjan: I had a plan of just pulling the commits I made into the running copy from my bitbucket repository, in the hopes that it wouldn't mess things up too badly if Gregor were ever to merge them. 01:18:55 I may attempt that at some point. 01:19:38 In the meanwhile, I think the bot's wired in such a way that I can kill the multibot process, and it will restart. 01:19:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:59 -!- HackEgo has joined. 01:20:08 `w 01:20:35 I can see it running. 01:20:44 No output. 01:21:05 Well, it looked like it was attempting to start the umlbox thing. 01:21:15 `w 01:21:31 Hmm, it's starting a huge number of those instead. 01:21:43 135 right now. 01:21:46 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:21:51 I don't remember seeing that before. 01:22:16 It's not exactly the most debuggable of programs. 01:22:26 `rm bin/w 01:22:30 No output. 01:22:34 `cat bin/w 01:22:35 cat: bin/w: No such file or directory 01:22:38 `w 01:22:39 ​ 01:21:52 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT 01:22:43 `wisdom 01:23:10 i just wanted to check if it was _somehow_ adding bin/w that broke things. 01:23:14 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:23:19 alas, no. 01:23:27 `revert 01:23:38 This thing should have an error log, I think. 01:23:44 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:23:48 `cat bin/w 01:23:50 wisdom "$@" 01:24:11 `quote 01:24:11 1009) ... I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. octave:1> fact(20) Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. I don't think that's 20!. 01:24:25 it seems like the overhead of wisdom is too big for it 01:24:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:24:35 `cat bin/wisdom 01:24:36 wisdom "$@" 01:24:41 ARGH 01:24:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:24:56 * oerjan swats himself -----### 01:24:57 Oh, well, that makes some amount of sense. 01:25:00 fizzie: NEVER MIND 01:25:11 `doag bin/wisdom 01:25:18 9971:2016-12-15 mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" \ 9770:2016-11-24 sled bin/wisdom//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom, \ 9048:2016-09-16 sled bin/wisdom//s/that/That/;s/wise/wise./ \ 9047:2016-09-16 ` sed -i -e \'s/{/if [ -n "$f" ]; then/;s/} |/else echo "that\'\\\'\'s not wise"; fi |/\' bin/wisdom \ 8655:20 01:25:40 `undo 9971 01:25:51 patching file bin/wisdom 01:26:04 `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" 01:26:07 bin/w 01:26:10 `5 w 01:26:41 ...damn 01:26:47 ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes 01:26:53 `` ls -ld bin/w 01:26:54 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 15 01:22 bin/w -> wisdom 01:27:00 Right-o. 01:27:07 I think mkx is following symlinks. 01:27:12 *sigh 01:27:26 `undo 9971 01:27:33 patching file bin/wisdom 01:27:38 `rm bin/w 01:27:40 No output. 01:27:46 `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" 01:27:48 bin/w 01:27:53 `5 w 01:27:59 1/1: //The final frontier. \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ myndzi//myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. \ duck typing//Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people. 01:28:02 whew 01:28:15 Crisis averted, so I'll resume going to sleep. 01:28:16 fizzie: also, undo restored the symlink without saying so. 01:28:25 good night, and sorry 01:31:58 shachaf: now `5 can be used for general commands as well 01:32:21 `cat bin/5 01:32:22 cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport 01:32:35 `5 break 01:32:38 1/0: 01:32:45 heh 01:33:08 eval is a bit scow, why not bash -c? 01:33:10 or ` 01:33:24 i thought we were forking enough here 01:33:25 Or better yet, a HackEgo-style evaluator. 01:33:36 Which splits on the first space. 01:33:48 `cat bin/1 01:33:49 ​\` "$@" |& sport 01:34:08 i guess it could at least be `1 compatible 01:34:36 but `1 doesn't split on first space only 01:35:33 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:35:39 1 is meant to be `-compatible. 01:36:04 `sled bin/5//s/eval --/\\`/ 01:36:08 bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport 01:36:18 yay i got the \s right 01:36:24 `5 break 01:36:26 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /ha 01:39:00 `q 01:39:00 const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509 01:39:12 `ls quines 01:39:12 c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ ruby \ slashes 01:39:17 `quines/c 01:39:17 ​#include \ int main(){char*s="#include %cint main(){char*s=%c%s%c;printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}%c";printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);} 01:39:23 hm 01:40:02 `` q > /tmp/q.c; gcc -o /tmp/q /tmp/q.c; /tmp/q | diff /tmp/q.c - 01:40:10 No output. 01:40:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:40:51 `file bin/q 01:40:52 bin/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x30b0a269173e4993500f3457b95364783b36be31, not stripped 01:41:09 `doag bin/q 01:41:13 2691:2013-04-14 mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\ 01:42:15 `doag q 01:42:19 3138:2013-06-16 mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242 01:42:21 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:15 `1 doag bin/q 01:43:20 1/4:2691:2013-04-14 mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\ 01:43:22 `n 01:43:23 2/4:(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisdom/$topic"\' > bin/q \ 1764:2013-01-25 echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ "$topic" = "ngevd" -a -e wisdom/ngevd ] && cat /dev/urandom; exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisd 01:43:30 argh 01:43:38 `1 doag q 01:43:40 1/4:3138:2013-06-16 mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261 01:43:41 `n 01:43:42 2/4:490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,};\' >q.c && gcc q.c -o q && rm q.c \ 2698:2013-04-14 rm q.c q \ 2697:2013-04-14 gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2691:2013-04-14 mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 2687:2013-04-14 gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2565:2013-03 01:44:38 `n 01:44:38 3/4:-31 rm q \ 2564:2013-03-31 touch q; echo hi \ 1829:2013-01-25 rm q{,.1,.2} \ 1827:2013-01-25 fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q \ 1826:2013-01-25 mv q bin/\'?\' \ 1825:2013-01-25 cat q.2 >q \ 1822:2013-01-25 cat q.1 >q \ 1820:2013-01-25 chmod a+x q \ 01:47:01 -!- heroux has joined. 01:47:52 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 01:48:01 `` q > quines/q2; rm bin/q 01:48:05 No output. 01:48:12 or wait 01:48:17 `revert 01:48:18 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:48:27 helloerjan 01:48:28 `` mv bin/q quines/q2 01:48:31 No output. 01:48:32 whatr you doing? :P 01:48:35 helloony 01:48:49 moonheart08: moving a quine into quines/ 01:49:01 is quines/ on the path? :P 01:49:06 `file quines/* 01:49:22 quines/*: ERROR: cannot open `quines/*' (No such file or directory) 01:49:22 no 01:49:22 `` file quines/* 01:49:22 quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ quines/q: E 01:49:22 `./quines/q2 01:49:22 const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509 01:49:42 `2 file quines/* 01:49:43 2/3:nes/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x9fe31dd00eda1cd05cc0ece7cc7d314dd7a4a4de, not stripped \ quines/q2: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildI 01:49:57 `cat bin/2 01:49:58 ​\` "$@" |& sport '' 2 01:50:03 `cat bin/sport 01:50:04 distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}" 01:50:10 `cat bin/spore 01:50:10 cat "${1:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${2-1}" 01:50:11 ??? 01:50:22 `cat bin/distort 01:50:22 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N] 01:50:48 `` cat "moo" > /dev/stdout 01:50:49 cat: moo: No such file or directory 01:50:57 `` echo "moo" > /dev/stdout 01:50:58 moo 01:51:54 `` echo "-echo `` echo "moo" >/dev/stdout" > /dev/stdout 01:51:55 ​-echo echo moo >/dev/stdout 01:52:02 moonheart08: `2 is a convenient command for when you want to see the rest of output of a long one 01:52:30 ah 01:52:36 nice to know 01:53:20 (if there are more lines, use `n) 01:54:02 mind you, it needs to be deterministic, since it's rerun. otherwise the original is lost. 01:54:22 you could put the output in a file and then cat it in `n for the output :P 01:54:33 *points out the obvious* 01:54:40 moonheart08: that's what it does internally 01:55:03 the tmp/spout file 01:55:13 `cat tmp/spout 01:55:14 quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ qui \ nes/q: 01:55:20 oh neat 01:55:42 `pad print 1+! 01:55:43 No output. 01:55:47 damn 01:55:51 forgot how i made that one work 01:55:56 `cat bin/pad 01:55:57 pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" 01:56:27 `cat tmp/pad.print 01:56:27 cat: tmp/pad.print: No such file or directory 01:56:28 `cat tmp/pad.* 01:56:29 cat: tmp/pad.*: No such file or directory 01:56:34 `` cat tmp/pad. 01:56:35 cat: tmp/pad.: No such file or directory 01:56:37 `` cat tmp/pad.* 01:56:38 No output. 01:56:49 `cat tmp.pad.print 1+! 01:56:51 cat: tmp.pad.print 1+!: No such file or directory 01:57:09 `pad 1 print 1+! 01:57:09 No output. 01:57:12 `ls tmp 01:57:13 pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout 01:57:25 lol 01:57:28 a derp indeed 01:57:58 oh i typoed / as . 01:58:59 `` sed bin/pad s/shift/shift 1/ 01:59:00 ​/bin/sed: can't find label for jump to `in/pad' 01:59:10 `` sed s/shift/shift 1/ bin/pad 01:59:11 ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 13: unterminated `s' command 01:59:15 `` sed 's/shift/shift 1/' bin/pad 01:59:23 pad="$1"; shift 1; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" 01:59:23 `` sed 's/shift/shift 1/' bin/pad > bin/pad 01:59:24 No output. 01:59:29 `pad 1 print 1+! 01:59:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success 01:59:45 `ls tmp 01:59:46 pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout 01:59:53 `pad 12 print 1+! 01:59:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success 01:59:58 `ls tmp 01:59:59 pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout 02:00:08 oerjan, isnt that odd? 02:00:54 i've never seen it say 'success' before 02:01:50 `pad 12 print 1+!; quit() 02:01:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success 02:02:13 Why is this channel being spammed? 02:02:17 oh 02:02:18 sorry 02:02:28 I look away for five minutes and someone is making a big mess. 02:03:22 oerjan: Do you mean c2? 02:04:54 shachaf: what? 02:04:58 `cat bin/pad 02:04:59 No output. 02:05:11 `ls quines 02:05:12 c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ q2 \ ruby \ slashes 02:05:15 moonheart08: you cannot pipe into a file you're reading from, with most commands 02:05:19 `cat quines/q 02:05:20 ​ELF............>.....°@.....@.......Ð..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À................. ...........@......@............................................@.......@.....¬......¬........ ............°......°`.....°`.................... ...........Ø......Ø`.....Ø`..... ....... .............. .. 02:05:21 oh 02:05:22 RIP 02:05:24 Oh. 02:05:26 `quines/q 02:05:27 const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,}; 02:05:31 `quines/q2 02:05:31 const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509 02:05:35 I see. 02:05:39 `doag bin/pad 02:05:41 `doat quines/q 02:05:48 9983:2016-12-15 ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//echo $"$(echo $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfil 02:05:50 3138:2013-06-16 mv q quines 02:05:54 `undo 9983 02:06:00 patching file bin/pad 02:06:58 moonheart08: shift is equivalent to shift 1, that's not your problem 02:07:26 your problem is that when invoked as `pad, it only gets one argument 02:07:34 oh 02:07:34 lol 02:08:07 `` echo 'pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"' > bin/pad 02:08:08 No output. 02:08:16 ``pad 1 print 1+1 02:08:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `pad: not found 02:08:21 `` pad 1 print 1+1 02:08:21 No output. 02:08:26 `ls tmp 02:08:27 pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout 02:08:32 oerjan, i am a derp 02:09:42 What is this pad thing about? 02:09:51 Why is everything cluttering up things? 02:10:33 just a mini multiline in a box. was an experiment 02:10:38 i'll remove it if you want 02:13:38 `doag bin/pad 02:13:41 9984:2016-12-15 undo 9983 \ 9983:2016-12-15 ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 mkx bin/pad//echo $" 02:13:47 `quines/cat 02:13:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success 02:13:56 moonheart08: i had already repaired the file, that's what the undo was for 02:14:10 oh 02:14:12 didnt notice 02:14:13 lol 02:14:50 we've got a lot of weird commands. 02:15:00 `` stat -c%A quines/cat && cat quines/cat 02:15:00 ​-rwxr-xr-x 02:15:20 `` doag quines/cat 02:15:24 1569:2013-01-18 chmod +x quines/cat \ 1568:2013-01-18 touch quines/cat 02:15:24 Jafet: some of those files need to be run with an interpreter 02:15:28 `cat quines/cat 02:15:29 No output. 02:15:35 see? perfect quine. 02:15:48 `perl quines/perl 02:15:49 No output. 02:15:51 lol 02:16:21 the zero char quine 2000 02:16:29 `bash quines/cat 02:16:30 No output. 02:16:39 `quines/cat 02:16:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success 02:17:07 alas hackego is a little noisy, so it doesn't really work to make that +x 02:17:19 `` chmod -x quines/{cat,python,ruby,perl} 02:17:21 No output. 02:17:24 (even though it's a bash quine too) 02:17:26 -!- moonheart08 has changed nick to evilmoon. 02:17:37 -!- doesthiswork1 has changed nick to doesthiswork. 02:18:41 `cat bin/python 02:18:43 cat: bin/python: No such file or directory 02:18:50 `cat quines/python 02:18:51 No output. 02:18:56 `cat quines/ruby 02:18:57 No output. 02:19:17 `` echo 'No output.' > quines/cat 02:19:19 No output. 02:19:22 `quines/cat 02:19:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/quines/cat: cannot execute: Permission denied 02:19:34 `cat quines/cat 02:19:35 No output. 02:19:36 ... 02:19:58 cat is ideal for writing quines 02:20:32 `` echo '#!/bin/cat' >quines/cat && chmod +x quines/cat 02:20:34 No output. 02:20:38 `quines/cat 02:20:39 ​#!/bin/cat 02:45:28 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 02:47:57 -!- evilmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:52:36 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:52:50 -!- heroux has joined. 02:55:04 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:41:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:52 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:43:49 -!- heroux has joined. 04:12:16 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:25:55 -!- bibibi has quit (Excess Flood). 04:26:05 -!- bibibi has joined. 04:34:24 -!- bibibi has quit (Excess Flood). 04:34:41 -!- bibibi has joined. 04:37:36 -!- LKoen_ has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 05:28:04 `? english 05:28:21 English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself. 05:29:32 `unidecode Π 05:29:36 ​[U+03A0 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PI] 05:30:01 `unidecode П 05:30:03 ​[U+041F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER PE] 05:31:13 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:46:55 Do you know how to code review http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=6156d70564da7cdfced7aa6cc25350dac895ea1b (except the dispatch, which is incompleted)? 05:47:23 And this document (it is related to it) http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/wiki?name=Parser 05:47:24 -!- benderB747 has joined. 05:49:53 <\oren\> I have bold and italic letters in my font but I'm adding bold-italic ones 05:51:25 <\oren\> so far I have C𝐂𝐶𝖢ℂℭ𝕮 and 𝒞 05:52:12 <\oren\> but I need to add 𝑪𝙲 and some others 05:57:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:08:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:16:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:45 <\oren\> did you know that you can track how much urine is in the urine tank on the space station in real time? 06:31:03 \oren\: Uh, yeah. 06:32:12 \oren\: (I didn't actually. Thanks I guess?) 06:32:19 Is it possible to calculate the length of the arc of a unit circle from (1, 0) to some known (x, y) on the circle without using triggy stuff? 06:35:48 <\oren\> you could use complex numbers 06:36:52 hppavilion[1]: not really. the length is after all arccos(x). 06:37:04 and also arcsin(y). 06:37:30 and y = sqrt(1-x^2) 06:37:42 <\oren\> θ = log(x/i+y) 06:37:44 (in the first quadrant) 06:38:06 so no matter what you do, you get the trig back. 06:38:31 oerjan: Darn. 06:38:37 <\oren\> but if your log function supports that then you probaby already have support for trig anywya 06:38:47 using complex numbers is just a roundabout way of using trig, or an alternate way of calculating trig. 06:39:35 <\oren\> oerjan: specifically, on many platforms it's a way of doing trig without worrying about quadrants 06:40:07 perhaps. there's also atan2 :) 06:40:46 > atan2 0 1 06:40:48 0.0 06:40:52 > atan2 1 0 06:40:55 1.5707963267948966 06:41:56 which is exactly the function asked for, really 06:42:16 > atan2 (-1) 0 06:42:18 -1.5707963267948966 06:42:30 > atan2 0 (-1) 06:42:32 3.141592653589793 06:47:20 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that's you anser then 06:48:46 <\oren\> https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/3639 07:15:40 -!- augur has joined. 07:17:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:20:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:50:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:51:38 -!- augur has joined. 07:55:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:13:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:37:41 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 08:45:32 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:11:15 -!- benderB747 has quit (Changing host). 09:11:15 -!- benderB747 has joined. 09:21:36 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 09:24:30 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:45:38 -!- benderB747 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:46:33 -!- The_Prospector|2 has joined. 09:49:37 -!- The_Prospector has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:34:46 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 10:38:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:42:04 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:51:35 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:55:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:57:43 -!- The_Prospector has joined. 11:00:41 -!- The_Prospector|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:12:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:17:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:35:13 -!- boily has joined. 11:41:32 @massages-loud 11:41:32 You don't have any messages 11:42:57 Ham, does quantity calculus ever use log? >:D 11:44:22 * boily lightly thwack hppavilion[1] for not making sense in the morning 11:44:41 boily: What? 11:53:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:08:11 -!- xa0 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:13:09 -!- xa0 has joined. 12:30:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AURAL CHICKEN). 12:48:55 [wiki] [[S and K Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50517&oldid=46030 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Example */ 13:00:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:21:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:46:02 -!- otherbot has joined. 13:49:28 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:55:26 zzaew/.lkjhgbvnmkjgfcvbhgfcvbhjklkm cxsertwsdfvbnmkoiuytrewdvwedfvcdwddsdswdwsdc /w 13:55:36 err 13:55:38 derp 14:00:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:09:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 14:10:41 `quote 14:11:06 811) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 14:12:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:18:58 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 14:22:54 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:23:01 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:41:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:43:23 moo 14:45:42 nythedwarf 14:45:48 hi Taneb! 14:45:49 :D 14:45:56 Hi! 14:48:27 `quote starcraft 14:48:36 811) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 14:50:06 lol 14:51:21 -!- benderB747 has joined. 14:59:08 -!- benderB747 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:59:17 it's damn hard to predict which programs will run with wine and which ones won't. 14:59:46 -!- benderB747 has joined. 15:02:26 -!- super_bender has joined. 15:04:13 -!- benderB747 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:10:16 int-e, agreed 15:12:29 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Changing host). 15:12:29 -!- wlp1s1 has joined. 15:13:35 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Changing host). 15:13:35 -!- wlp1s1 has joined. 15:20:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:24:35 -!- benderB747 has joined. 15:25:37 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:56:21 -!- MDude has joined. 16:02:38 today's second mezzacotta character has awesome blog readers, i see 16:24:06 "This is the first time we've found dinosaur material preserved in amber," co-author Ryan McKellar, of the Royal Saskatchewan Museum in Canada, told the BBC News website. 16:25:07 -!- benderB747 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:25:22 * oerjan is a bit late to this 16:34:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:36 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:05:09 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:08:26 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:14:03 * oerjan disappointed the bbc article had no jurassic park reference 17:24:37 `wisdo 17:24:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdo: not found 17:24:45 `wisdom 17:24:50 wegian//A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from. 17:25:39 hm didn't we have someone irish here at some point 17:25:57 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:26:19 fungot, are you irish? 17:26:19 b_jonas: as well, could you create a nifty new package in which to load source in the world on occasion. that being said, r5rs is rather slim, so implementations can ( and do) very widely on how they use the fnord 17:26:24 -!- fractal has joined. 17:29:27 <\oren\> I'm approximately 10% irish 17:30:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:30:41 <\oren\> and apparently that's enough to put some red in my hair 17:30:52 <\oren\> genetics is weird 17:32:02 <\oren\> especially the thing where traits can skip generations 17:36:13 \oren\: yes, genetics is strange. I just read that a Half-Green-Dragon Green Dragon has weaker attacks but stronger attacks than an ordinary Green Dragon of the same age category, because that's what he inherits from his Green Dragon ancestor. 17:36:31 s/weaker attacks but stronger attacks/weaker attacks but stronger defense/ 17:40:38 <\oren\> wait what 17:41:05 <\oren\> i was thinking that the concept made sense and then I reread it 17:41:45 fungot: slim and trim, you said? 17:41:45 int-e: if n 0) or ( ( a b) ( a 17:41:57 <\oren\> half dragons are supposed to be the offspring of polymorhed dragons right 17:42:00 fungot: I have to admit that's rather elegant 17:42:00 int-e: not in reference to her attempts at getting a marine biology degree: halusin ostaa tai saada fnord cd- fnord tää on tosi fnord. 17:43:07 fungot: I think you lost me at "marine" 17:43:07 int-e: what does it do with the association fnord associate french with fnord cuisine and fnord arts is very good 17:44:31 <\oren\> so a half green dragon green dragon is the ofspring of a green dragon that polymorphed emself into a... green dragon and then mated with another green dragon? 17:45:22 `grwp drosophila 17:45:45 Binary file reflection matches 17:48:06 -!- alakra has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4). 17:55:49 I hear that biologists are drosophiles 17:57:55 \oren\: I don't see why the parent has to be polymorphed. 17:58:12 half-dragons are descendants of dragons, but I don't think polymorph has to be involved 18:03:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 18:04:44 <\oren\> well there has to be some sort of starngeness otheriwse all green dragons would be half green dragosn 18:07:20 <\oren\> oh, the canadian goverment will ban asbestos 18:12:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:41:04 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:48:50 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:49:44 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:49:54 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:00:23 -!- otherbot_ has joined. 19:02:50 -!- otherbot has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:02:52 -!- otherbot_ has changed nick to otherbot. 19:04:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 19:06:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:09:01 -!- augur has joined. 19:14:56 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 19:16:34 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:17:04 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 19:17:28 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to Guest22209. 19:29:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:45 -!- augur has joined. 19:30:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:30:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:34:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:37:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:49 -!- Guest22209 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:47:36 -!- augur has joined. 19:55:25 @check \f -> f True || f False 19:55:29 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests): 19:55:29 Bool> 20:03:48 Is there a way to directly look at the logic in quantum computing with a variation on more classical predicate logic?? 20:09:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:22:13 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:23:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:25:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:27:38 Quantum computing relies on vectors. The field these vectors are over is, of course, the fields from Quantum Field Theory :P 20:28:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 20:40:10 -!- moony has joined. 20:40:37 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:53:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:02:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:15:55 Cale: I don't remember whether we talked about this, but Leibniz's infinitesimals aren't nilpotent, are they? 21:17:18 I don't actually know what "Leibniz's infinitesimals" refers to in a precise enough way to say :) 21:17:49 Neither do I. 21:18:12 But dx^2 is in general not 0, right? 21:23:39 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:24:01 In the thing I was discussing a while back with you, it wouldn't generally be 0, simply because dx was meant to be a real variable, and the only case where its square would be 0 would be the unusual case that it was as well. 21:24:30 However, in the case of exterior algebra, dx /\ dx will be 0, because /\ is antisymmetric 21:26:28 Well, I still don't understand Leibniz notation. 21:26:41 But there's the version where you parameterize everything in terms of another variable. 21:27:33 Or it can even be one of the d's 21:27:38 right? 21:27:46 ? 21:28:03 What can? 21:28:14 that "another variable" you mentioned 21:28:40 Like, it works out just fine to say we're going to write dy = f'(x) dx and consider dy to be a function of x and dx 21:29:40 Maybe that works fine? I'm not sure. 21:29:51 What does d(dy/dx)/dx work out to in that case? 21:29:53 Well, depends on what you want to do 21:30:42 I think the right answer is d(dy/dx)/dx = d^2y/dx^2 + dy/dx d^2x/dx^2 21:30:45 heh, sort of -- though the implicit parameter usage is insane 21:31:06 -!- The_Prospector has quit (Quit: when in doubt, kernel panic). 21:31:59 -!- The_Prospector has joined. 21:33:15 We only think that because we don't understand it. 21:35:06 I don't think I understand the version you were talking about, actually. 21:35:12 And what's wrong with the implicit parameter? 21:36:29 Oh, well, it's sort of okay to take the dx to be the same there, but you're really dealing with a new thing, so you're sort of throwing away a free choice that you would have otherwise had 21:36:50 I don't know if that statement I just made is clear enough to mean anything to you :) 21:37:54 I'm not sure that it is. 21:38:00 So, okay, dy/dx is being regarded there as a new function, of just x, since presumably you're not hiding the fact that the outer /dx was really a /\partial x 21:38:04 Is it related to how the second derivative is a bilinear function? 21:38:11 yeah 21:39:01 Sure, dy/dx is a new thing in terms of x. 21:39:11 If y=x^3, then dy/dx = 3x^2 21:39:33 Maybe I see what you mean. 21:39:56 oerjan has made the same objection before, but I think it turned out to be irrelevant in his case or something? 21:40:16 Well, it's fairly irrelevant because everything is 1-dimensional here 21:40:46 I see. 21:40:55 The vector space of linear maps R -> R is canonically isomorphic to R itself, and the space of bilinear maps R x R -> R is again 21:41:04 Right. 21:41:33 So can we make this notation work in a multidimensional case? 21:41:37 I mean total derivatives, not partial derivatives. 21:42:31 yeah 21:42:45 The definition you probably want is the one due to Fréchet. 21:43:31 In fact, the Wikipedia presentation goes a bit farther than just multiple dimensions, and generalises to Banach spaces 21:44:19 Which one? 21:44:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9chet_derivative 21:44:25 [Fréchet derivative - Wikipedia] 21:45:06 Hasn't this bot been requested not to do that in the past? 21:45:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:46:35 The idea is that if we have some function f: U -> V between some Banach spaces, then the derivative of f at some point x is supposed to be the best possible linear approximation to the manner in which f varies near the point x 21:46:48 Isn't this just the standard definition of a derivative in the multidimensional case? 21:46:54 yeah 21:47:25 Well, there are a bunch of other things you can do in order to talk about e.g. directional derivatives and such. 21:47:44 But anyway... 21:48:30 this means that the derivative of f as a whole is going to be a map from U to the space L(U,V) of linear maps from U to V 21:48:41 -!- augur has joined. 21:49:31 and so we can iterate this, the second derivative is going to be a map U -> L(U,L(U,V)) 21:50:04 Say we have the 2-sphere x^2+y^2+z^2=1. We can talk about its derivative, which is a tangent plane at each point. 21:50:11 Maybe that's not called a derivative but something else. I'm not sure. 21:50:33 Is that a sufficiently multidimensional case for this? 21:51:17 Perhaps we should just discuss a function such as f(x,y,z) = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 1 21:52:14 So, its derivative at some point (x,y,z) in R is going to be some linear functional R^3 -> R 21:52:28 We can do that, and then talk about the function's zero set and its derivative's zero set. 21:52:40 So in order to express what that linear functional is, we'll introduce some new variables, dx, dy and dz 21:53:37 With (x,y,z) fixed, it's the linear functional (dx,dy,dz) |--> 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz, right? 21:53:52 Sure. 21:54:59 So that, I think, is the easiest way to make some kind of sense of the Leibniz notation -- we're implicitly discussing these functions which are the linear functionals (or whatever) which our total derivative gives us. 21:55:31 With fancy implicit notation, we can "d" both sides and write 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, and therefore dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dz 21:55:48 Er, dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx 21:56:00 If you do funny things like iterating it, then all of a sudden, you might introduce "dx" multiple times, when really you should perhaps have picked some new variable name 21:56:18 But in the 1D case, it *really* doesn't matter 21:57:49 I see what you mean by "function of x and dx", at least. 21:57:52 (particularly when you're dividing through by dx) 21:57:54 yeah 21:58:20 But the statement "dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx" is accurate, isn't it? 21:58:37 And the other five that you can write. 22:01:53 yes 22:02:26 Assuming that 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, that's a valid conclusion to draw 22:03:28 But what are dx, dy, dz? 22:03:42 What's the second derivative of the 2-sphere? 22:03:45 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 22:03:49 my god 22:03:51 Well, wait 22:03:56 moonheart08: Is otherbot your bot? 22:04:04 after a few months of being lost, i got SFML + visual studios to work 22:04:11 shachaf, its a bot i HELP with, wlp1s1 owns it 22:04:20 i can modify things if i need to 22:04:24 what do you need? ^_^ 22:04:33 Haven't people requested before that it stop showing URL titles? 22:04:38 I think that's a channel requirement. 22:04:40 is it still doing it? 22:04:45 i thought i killed that... 22:04:47 Personally I would prefer that it not be in here at all. 22:04:50 (due to incompat) 22:04:52 But if it is, it shouldn't spam. 22:04:59 www.google.com 22:05:00 [Google] 22:05:00 test 22:05:03 err 22:05:06 who reenabled it >_< 22:05:14 Also do your testing somewhere else please. 22:05:16 Only HackEgo is allowed to spam ;) 22:05:18 hahaha 22:05:21 Cale, lol 22:05:32 shachaf, killing it again :P someone must've reenabeld it 22:05:34 HackEgo's spam is on-topic. 22:06:07 Well, to be an acceptable fix, you need to provide evidence that it won't accidentally get turned on again in the future. 22:06:08 huh 22:06:10 its off.... 22:06:14 its commented out 22:06:19 wtf is it workign then? 22:06:29 wlp1s1, iovoid, Bowserinator what did you do >_< 22:06:38 ? 22:06:39 Maybe the code you are editing is not the code which is running? 22:06:56 moonheart08: ? 22:07:03 it seems not 22:07:06 ugh 22:07:12 Maybe you could take the bot spam to #esoteric-blah. 22:07:15 brb, yelling at wlp1s1 for moving it again 22:07:22 Anyway, I didn't want a full page of spam in here. 22:07:35 -part for now 22:07:39 -part #esoteric bye 22:07:40 -!- otherbot has left ("bye"). 22:08:40 Anyway. 22:09:51 ok, i am going to kill wlp1s1 >_> 22:11:22 shachaf, im sorry about the issue, its wlp1s1 fault this time actually :P 22:11:48 Fault is irrelevant. 22:12:30 true enough 22:12:55 what happened 22:13:55 a jeffool happened :P 22:21:07 -!- moonheart08 has changed nick to m`o-o`nheart08. 22:21:26 -!- m`o-o`nheart08 has left ("I'm being a nuisance, am I not? Oh well. Bye. DERP"). 22:38:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:46:15 |ℕ| is sometimes called ω; is there a nice name for |ℝ| and for |2^ℝ|? 22:46:54 I don't follow. What is |? 22:47:31 shachaf: |S| is Cardinality of S. 22:47:36 Sorry, thought that was the standard notation 22:47:43 But ω is an ordinal. 22:48:04 ...oh? 22:48:24 The cardinality of the naturals is usually called aleph zero. 22:51:54 -!- Zarutian has left. 23:01:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:03:58 @tell hppavilion[1] ℶ₁ hth 23:03:58 Consider it noted. 23:04:47 hizzie 23:05:30 Cale: I've waited, but I still don'tknow the second derivative of the 2-sphere. 23:05:37 @tell hppavilion[1] And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.) 23:05:37 Consider it noted. 23:05:38 Maybe I should think instead. 23:05:43 shichaf. 23:05:57 `? shachaf 23:06:00 `? fizzie 23:06:24 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg 23:06:25 Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. 23:06:27 fizzie: Did you see that photorealistic image synthesis thing? 23:06:29 p. impressive 23:06:39 Probably not, if it's some new thing. 23:06:46 https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.03242 23:07:45 Yes, but why is the #1 'News'-corpora result for that a Daily Mail article. :( 23:09:26 Oh, the Daily Mail article is even about an earlier paper from partially the same folks, about faces. 23:09:46 Oh, not even same folks. I just can't read. 23:10:12 shachaf: oh, sorry, I got dragged away by work 23:10:42 V. fancy. 23:13:11 shachaf: So, you want the derivative of that function R -> L(R, R^3)? 23:13:18 er, sorry 23:13:21 that's backward :) 23:13:29 R^3 -> L(R^3, R) 23:16:12 Cale: I guess, though I'm not sure I have a definition for that. 23:16:41 L(U,V) being the space of linear maps U -> V 23:17:07 Right, but what's a derivative of a function with that codomain? 23:18:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:21:23 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Raddish0 * New user account 23:21:23 Well, the Fréchet derivative applies, though for computational purposes perhaps using the definition directly is a bit annoying 23:22:09 It turns out that you can express the bilinear map which is the second derivative using what's called the Hessian matrix -- it's just the matrix of all possible second partial derivatives 23:22:09 Oh, I see, it applies in this case. 23:22:32 The thing it's taking the limit of is in the domain, not the codomain. So it still makes sense. 23:22:40 right 23:22:45 The Hessian matrix has the wrong variance when treated as a matrix. 23:22:52 yeah 23:22:55 I think we talked about that before. 23:23:11 It's just, more convenient to write it in a square shape than have a really long line 23:23:13 Anyway this doesn't work in the more general R^n->R^m case. 23:23:24 Well, none of this notation really does 23:23:32 That's what I was wondering about. 23:23:40 But the Fréchet derivative works 23:24:11 Well, and you can always split things up into components 23:24:35 If you have a function R^m -> R^n it's like having n functions R^m -> R 23:25:08 and you can just differentiate those component functions individually 23:34:00 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:42:59 -!- boily has joined. 23:45:34 @metar CYUL 23:45:34 CYUL 152342Z 31017G30KT 15SM IC DRSN FEW025 SCT040 M18/M26 A2996 RMK CF1SC3 CF TR PRESRR SLP150 23:49:52 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 23:50:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting for nvidia update). 23:51:23 <\oren\> Countor used the cardinal 𝔠 for the cardinal of the Reals apparently 23:51:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:52:32 He sure knew how to count. 23:52:43 Ah ah ah ah ah! 23:53:25 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: the cardinal of the naturals is called ℵ₀ 23:53:38 \oren\: ...oh? 23:53:47 @massages-proud 23:53:47 Unknown command, try @list 23:53:53 @massages-shout 23:53:53 Unknown command, try @list 23:53:57 @massages-lud 23:53:57 fizzie said 49m 58s ago: ℶ₁ hth 23:53:57 fizzie said 48m 19s ago: And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.) 23:53:58 ;-; 23:54:00 <\oren\> the cardinal of the reals is called ℶ₁ or 𝔠 23:54:07 he\\oren, hppavellon, lambdabellot. 23:54:36 * boily thwacks shachaf one time. ah ah ah. thwack two times. ah ah ahachaf. 23:56:47 <\oren\> I wonder what ℷ means in math 23:58:09 It's said that primitive cultures don't have different words for infinities; they just go 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., then everything bigger is "∞" 23:59:09 \oren\: function hth 23:59:30 the gimel calculus. ℷx.ℷy.y x