00:03:00 <olsner> I think esolangs will live on across all the human planets
00:03:50 <olsner> I ignored most of the end of that question, but it was about esolangs, right?
00:11:41 <hppavilion[1]> (All it can do is determine whether someone has the title of "admin" and handle inventories, which are only allowed to give people meaningless items)
00:24:56 <myname> also, lojban is way more awesome than esperanto
00:28:38 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But Esperanto is more common and Google Translate supports it
00:29:19 <myname> i thought about making a translation program from german to lojban
00:35:01 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
00:37:13 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:37:52 <Taneb> Help, I am helping other people with maths assignments to procrastinate doing my maths assignment
00:38:18 <shachaf> which math is your assignment about
00:38:22 <myname> is the assigment you are helping with easy?
00:38:24 -!- ski has joined.
00:38:40 <Taneb> myname, it's more obvious to me than mine is
00:38:48 <hppavilion[1]> Listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhk-DiPqhr8 on loop, I guess.
00:38:57 <myname> Taneb: i can relate than
00:39:14 <myname> hppavilion[1]: why do you ask
00:39:17 <hppavilion[1]> Took me 5 fucking years to get that the meaning of "You're the last thing on my mind" is different at the beginning vs. the end
00:39:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Because you want to translated German to Lojban
00:39:37 <hppavilion[1]> myname: You want to translate German into *anything*
00:39:48 <hppavilion[1]> How do you even tell where the word boundaries are‽
00:40:38 <hppavilion[1]> myname: What about e.g. "ringstellung" or "schneeballschlacht"
00:41:14 <hppavilion[1]> (ringstellung I already knew from implementing Enigma)
00:41:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Oh, the first snow here was over the weekend, which is why we learned shneeular words)
00:41:34 <myname> hppavilion[1]: well, that may be a problem for actual vocabulary, my current translation thingie does not do this
00:41:47 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Oh! You mean you're just translating fixed words?
00:41:49 <myname> also, english is not that easier there
00:42:06 <myname> what i do is something like
00:42:11 <fizzie> myname: Wir gehen entgegen, wir haben entgegengegangen.
00:42:19 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I mean translating *known* words, so compound words that aren't on file can't be translated
00:42:36 <myname> "he likes a dog" to "exists X: dog(X) and likes(he, X)"
00:42:58 <myname> fizzie: "wir haben entgegengegangen" does not make sense
00:43:09 <myname> hppavilion[1]: order of appearance
00:43:25 <myname> fizzie: my favorite: "ich werde gefahren worden sein wollen"
00:43:32 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:34 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:35 -!- jeffl35 has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:35 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:36 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:38 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:40 -!- BooK has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:41 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split).
00:43:43 <myname> anythong but "ich" is the verb in that,sentence
00:43:43 <hppavilion[1]> myname: So "in the UK, a woman gives birth every 15 seconds" would parse as...?
00:44:11 <fizzie> Anyway, I like 'entgegengegangen' purely because of the way it looks like when written by hand.
00:44:24 <myname> the wrong thing, but i don't care about that
00:44:29 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], someone help that poor woman
00:44:37 -!- FreeFull has joined.
00:44:37 -!- olsner has joined.
00:44:37 -!- jeffl35 has joined.
00:44:37 -!- fungot has joined.
00:44:37 -!- heroux has joined.
00:44:37 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
00:44:37 -!- BooK has joined.
00:44:37 -!- trn has joined.
00:45:11 <myname> fizzie: first of all, it would be sein instead of haben as auxiliary verb, second it needs an object
00:46:19 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds).
00:46:20 <hppavilion[1]> `learn Masochism (where the <ch> is pronounced as [x]) is when somebody voluntarily does natural language processing for German. Taneb did not invent it, according to clerical records.
00:46:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'masochism': Masochism (where the <ch> is pronounced as [x]) is when somebody voluntarily does natural language processing for German. Taneb did not invent it, according to clerical records.
00:46:24 <olsner> fungot: wollen Sie haben sein?
00:46:24 <fungot> olsner: i think we can just as well be a bunch of
00:47:40 <myname> "ich werde gefahren worden sein wollen" means something like "some time in the future, there will be a point at where i would have wanted to be driven"
00:47:41 <HackEgo> This sentence is just. Taneb invented it.
00:49:31 <HackEgo> grep: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
00:49:48 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/_46bit \ wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder \ wisdom/bbc \ wisdom/bdsm \ wisdom/bogosort \ wisdom/boxmodel \ wisdom/chu space \ wisdom/ci \ wisdom/civilization \ wisdom/costume \ wisdo
00:51:52 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
00:53:09 <hppavilion[1]> `` grep -l --exclude=wisdom/*/* "Taneb" wisdom/* | sed 's#.*/##g' | sed 's#\n##g'
00:53:11 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ _46bit \ automatic squirrel feeder \ bbc \ bdsm \ bogosort \ boxmodel \ chu space \ ci \ civilization \ costume \ curry's paradox \ deniability \ denial \ d-module \ ehird \ eliot \ eyebrow
00:53:26 <HackEgo> Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing machines. Taneb may have invented it.
00:53:45 <HackEgo> boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
00:54:40 <fizzie> I didn't know example.com is actually serving a thing.
00:57:42 <hppavilion[1]> `` grep -l --exclude=wisdom/*/* "Taneb" wisdom/* | sed 's/grep: .*//' | sed 's#.*/##g' | sed 's#\n##g'
00:57:44 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ _46bit \ automatic squirrel feeder \ bbc \ bdsm \ bogosort \ boxmodel \ chu space \ ci \ civilization \ costume \ curry's paradox \ deniability \ denial \ d-module \ ehird \ eliot \ eyebrow
00:58:09 <HackEgo> The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
00:58:23 <myname> is [x] the loch-sound?
00:58:33 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
00:58:40 <olsner> Taneb: you should invent the CIs before they invent you
00:59:16 <hppavilion[1]> `slwd automatic squirrel feeder//s/$/ hppavilion[1] uninvented them./
00:59:18 <HackEgo> wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder//Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. hppavilion[1] uninvented them.
01:04:13 <fizzie> `` grep -l -d skip "Taneb" wisdom/* | sed -e 's|wisdom/||' | tr '\n' ' ' # hppavilion[1]: grep has a "-d skip" if you just wanted to avoid directories
01:04:14 <HackEgo> _46bit automatic squirrel feeder bbc bdsm bogosort boxmodel chu space ci civilization costume curry's paradox deniability denial d-module ehird eliot eyebrow facebook fundamental theorem of taneb go histogram it klein bottle lambek's lemma locale masochism matrix metar metronome necessity nih noooooooodle nvd persistence progres real redundancy ref
01:04:42 <tswett> An abelian group is just a group in the category of abelians.
01:04:42 <fizzie> Unfortunately there's too much Taneb to fit, even if you remove the newlines.
01:04:46 <tswett> (NB: not actually true.)
01:05:16 <tswett> Ice cream is just cream in the category of ice.
01:05:24 <tswett> Barack Obama is just Obama in the category of Barack.
01:05:26 <Taneb> tswett, it's just an object in the category of abelian groups
01:05:41 <myname> i always wondered what NB stands for
01:05:58 <tswett> The "N" means "note" and the "B" means "well", hth.
01:06:33 <olsner> the b stands for bene, as in bene gesserit
01:09:50 -!- ratpuke has joined.
01:11:19 -!- ratpuke has left.
01:33:29 <hppavilion[1]> Not what it stands for, but what it actually indicates
01:36:28 <HackEgo> _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
01:36:29 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: it pretty much just means "note", "take notice".
01:41:01 <hppavilion[1]> (from an Esolang standpoint, at least. From an actual-use standpoint, yeah, it's pretty shit)
01:48:34 <MoonyTheDwarf> Wow. They ported Dont Starve to android ^_^. Thanks klei!
01:50:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:52:56 <tswett> Fuzzy types, you say? Would those be related to fuzzy logic?
01:54:56 -!- ratpuke has joined.
01:55:15 -!- ratpuke has quit (Client Quit).
01:55:27 -!- Perrenelle has joined.
01:56:10 -!- Perrenelle has quit (Client Quit).
01:56:22 -!- Perenelle has joined.
01:58:04 <myname> MoonyTheDwarf: wooooooot
01:58:07 -!- augur has joined.
01:58:26 <myname> geez, so many great games
01:59:30 <myname> i bought mini metro recently
02:00:10 <MoonyTheDwarf> myname: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kleientertainment.doNotStarvePocket
02:00:49 <myname> nooo, it's not compatible
02:01:52 <myname> ah, it _is_ compatible with my phone
02:02:07 <myname> maybe android on my tablet is too old
02:03:10 <MoonyTheDwarf> dont worry, the interface works good on phones, they even have it in lo-def for you :P (jk, but it should work good)
02:03:14 <myname> i still use 4.4 on my tablet because of multiwindow stuff
02:03:38 <myname> i will update to nougat as soon as xposed for nougat is out
02:06:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:06:55 -!- augur has joined.
02:08:01 <myname> i am still unsure wether or not don't starve is a game for me
02:08:13 <myname> it looks way less casual than other games like it
02:08:27 <myname> like, younactually have to play if you play
02:09:31 <MoonyTheDwarf> but no, not always casual, sometimes is sometimes its not. Just be happy your not getting the $20 PC version :P (complete with extensive modibility)
02:09:59 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Quit: Bye).
02:10:13 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
02:10:13 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Changing host).
02:10:13 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
02:11:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:11:30 <myname> i watched a lets play and was like "you fucking idiot, why are you doing this shit"
02:11:39 <myname> but i knew more about it than he did
02:11:46 <myname> like, why there are tree spirits
02:23:14 -!- moony has joined.
02:26:37 <tswett> > sort "sphinx of black quartz judge my vow"
02:33:56 <myname> > sort "heizölrückstoßabdämpfung"
02:33:58 <lambdabot> "abcdefghiklmnoprstuz\223\228\246\252"
02:41:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
02:42:31 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Page closed).
02:51:48 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:54:46 -!- godel has joined.
02:55:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
02:55:36 -!- Cale has joined.
02:57:38 <myname> i should bake cookies again
03:09:13 -!- Perenelle has quit (Quit: Bye).
03:17:46 -!- augur has joined.
03:27:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:31:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:32:47 <Sgeo_> `slist mspaofficial on snapchat
03:32:51 <HackEgo> slist mspaofficial on snapchat: Taneb atriq Ngevd nvd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
04:10:57 -!- snootypoot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
04:17:00 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
04:35:17 -!- `^_^v has joined.
05:07:36 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:08:46 -!- Cale has joined.
05:10:20 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:19:22 -!- Tiktalik has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:26:33 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:35:48 -!- Akaibu has joined.
05:45:36 -!- quintopia has joined.
05:46:40 <quintopia> what is a relatively simple function on 2 integers that is zero if and only if x=1 and y!=0, or x=-1 and y=0?
05:46:51 -!- godel has joined.
05:48:29 <quintopia> sorry, not 2 integers. x can only be 1 or -1, y can be any integer
05:49:01 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
05:50:05 <shachaf> f x y | (x == 1 && y /= 0) || (x == (-1) && y == 0) = 0 | otherwise = 1
05:50:47 <quintopia> shachaf: you call that relatively simple?
05:51:41 <quintopia> let me clarify: here "simple" means "doesn't include any conditionals"
05:51:43 <shachaf> I guess there are some measures of complexity by which it's very complex.
05:51:49 -!- Cale has joined.
05:52:04 <shachaf> well, functions don't include conditionals, just a graph. hth
05:52:52 <shachaf> A function is just a set of pairs or something.
05:52:53 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
05:54:14 <quintopia> well, the unspecified referent of "doesn't include any conditionals" is "the description of the function in your programming language of choice" not "the function"
05:55:31 <alercah> f 1 0 = 1; f 1 _ = 0; f (-1) 0 = 0; f _ _ = 1; hth
05:55:40 <shachaf> That certainly includes conditionals.
05:55:54 <alercah> no it doesn't, it includes pattern matching!
05:56:00 <quintopia> also, i don't think haskell includes a hth command
05:56:15 <shachaf> It includes pattern matching on booleans.
05:56:21 <shachaf> That's as conditional as one can hope.
05:56:29 <shachaf> But of course any sort of pattern matching is conditional.
05:57:26 <alercah> but only for some definitions of "conditional"
05:57:44 -!- Vorpal has joined.
05:57:44 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host).
05:57:44 -!- Vorpal has joined.
06:05:46 <quintopia> and that thing doesn't work anyway *thinks*
06:14:06 <quintopia> tested working: (0**(x+1)+0**y**2)%2
06:17:07 <HackEgo> slist UPDATE: Taneb atriq Ngevd nvd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:21:06 <HackEgo> smlist 450: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
06:21:29 <shachaf> Wait, maybe this one isn't new?
06:27:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
06:59:53 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
07:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, is randint(0, randint(0, x)) the same as randint(0, x)?
07:03:13 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, but there's only 1 case in which you can get x, and its probability is 1/x
07:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> There are 2 cases where you can get x-1, one with probability 1/x (occurring 1/x times) and the other probability 1/(x-1) (occurring 1/x times- all inner randoms are equal, so I think they factor out)
07:05:39 <hppavilion[1]> So the total probability of x-1 is 1/x+1/(x-1) = (x-1)/(x^2-x) + x/(x^2-x) = (2x-1)/(x^2-1)
07:07:05 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure (2x-1)/(x^2-x) is not necessarily equal to 1/x, so therefor it's not the same
07:29:19 <myname> what do you want for an answer?
07:29:41 <myname> koh, 5 is not the same as 59, i wonder how they name that"
07:32:09 <hppavilion[1]> What are the odds of a given value n (where n : int, 0 ≤ n ≤ x) being returned by randint(0, randint(0, x))?
07:33:25 <myname> write a program and you will get a pretty close approximation
07:40:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50036&oldid=46560 * Quintopia * (+31) assuming the ! doesn't have a special meaning in SMBF and usual implementations of BF I/O
07:46:52 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
07:47:01 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: You may know what happens when you assume...
07:49:27 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think it's 1/(x+1)*\sum_{i=n}^x (1/i) which involves a harmonic series and i don't think they've got "closed form" expressions.
07:52:45 <oerjan> (this may be one of the cases where starting counting at 0 is evil)
07:53:41 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
07:53:53 <izalove> what other cases are there?
08:23:08 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:24:01 -!- Cale has joined.
08:28:10 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn Beethoven's Ninth Symphony/Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files.
08:28:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'beethoven's ninth symphony': Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files.
08:29:31 <myname> Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files
08:37:13 <hppavilion[1]> Instead of subsequent notes scaling by root(2, 12), they scale by root(phi, 16)
08:37:52 <hppavilion[1]> The notes are, cleverly, called a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p
08:37:54 <myname> that's one of your better ideas
08:38:30 <hppavilion[1]> (Hm, if I went to 26 I could write my name in music...)
08:38:50 <myname> you need a starting point for your scale though
08:40:58 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I went with a=440 Hz, as it's standard and makes everything synch up in at least one place
08:41:55 <myname> but for the 26th root, maybe we need a bigger starting value?
08:45:48 <hppavilion[1]> In Hertz on the e:26 scale, my name is 725.44 440.0 913.74 575.94 440.0 725.44 913.74 846.09 753.88 725.44 725.44 513.18 879.26
08:46:17 <hppavilion[1]> (Real-world. Nobody start d0xxing me with logarithms)
08:47:48 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I've already played it directly and it's OK
08:48:20 <hppavilion[1]> (music is written in an ad hoc notation I hacked together in .txt files)
08:48:21 <myname> proposal: doubling a letter means extending how long you play, for the same note more than once you seperate using '
08:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> myname: In the existing format, you write n:k to play a note n for k beats, and dropping ":k" defaults to k=4
08:49:57 <myname> well okay, it does make playing text a bit more boring though
08:50:48 <hppavilion[1]> And you can write note names in any way you want (as defined by the Scale object being used, which for the moment is hard-coded)
08:51:23 <hppavilion[1]> n_p (note n, value p) means to take n and scale it up by p <whatever-your-separation-is>
08:52:24 -!- augur has joined.
08:52:25 <hppavilion[1]> So on an e-cycle scale where a=base=440 Hz, a_3 = (440*e^3) Hz (which is probably beyond typical human hearing, but still in range)
08:52:59 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Oh, for playing text you have to get creative. For the moment, I just write the name as a series of notes and play it directly.
08:53:23 <myname> so you could express anything normal with a_sqrt...
08:54:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think human hearing goes up a bit more than that hth
08:54:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, but you don't usually hear anything in that range
08:54:47 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, and finally, if you write H<float> (instead of n or n_p), it plays that float value literally
08:57:14 <myname> well, you could play each column of a text file at the same time
08:57:26 <oerjan> > 12*logBase 2 (exp (1/26))
08:57:33 <hppavilion[1]> myname: That's one idea, but I already have it setup where newlines are just skipped
08:57:49 <oerjan> hm that's pretty close to 2/3 of an ordinary half-note
08:57:59 <oerjan> you might actually be able to play nicely
08:58:17 <hppavilion[1]> (...and I have no clue what syntax I'll wind up using. All the nice ones (e.g. a chord of a,b,c written [a b c] or something) can't be implemented with my current setup)
08:58:29 <HackEgo> 314) <zzo38> I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand.
08:59:43 <hppavilion[1]> Someone should've `addquoted shachaf's thing about Niezs... nietsch... fuck it, he's Neetzhah from now on...
09:00:24 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: 18 letters distance is very close to an ordinary octave
09:04:28 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], this is going to annoy anyone with perfect pitch
09:05:20 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: If they believe that the notes used on a piano are the only 12 notes that exist, they're in for a rather rude awakening
09:05:28 <shachaf> Taneb: what about a person with perfect pooch
09:05:40 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], it's more the ratios between them
09:06:05 <hppavilion[1]> Perfect pitch is when you can identify a note given only that note
09:06:39 <hppavilion[1]> Relative pitch is when you get two notes a and b, they tell you 'a is a C' and you can say what b is
09:06:43 <Taneb> It's still going to sound annoyingly dissonant to people with sensitive hearing
09:07:00 <hppavilion[1]> (god, giving notes algebraic names is really fucking annoying)
09:07:35 <shachaf> Taneb: equal temperament is the best
09:07:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: however, afaict neither a third, a fourth or a fifth ordinary interval is a whole number of letters apart :P
09:08:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um i used e
09:08:58 <Taneb> > 26 * logBase ((sqrt 5 + 1) / 2) 2
09:11:25 * hppavilion[1] waits for someone to point out the flaws with a -2 cycle
09:12:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnite).
09:12:18 <HackEgo> Your venerated itymologist knite gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
09:12:34 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your venerated itymologist gnite gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
09:12:56 <HackEgo> gan hart timat wangler schurm seudiek mir nortlein see worswy
09:13:56 <Taneb> At least two, possibly 5 of those are words!
09:14:33 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms.
09:14:47 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. hppavilion[1] uninvented them.
09:15:26 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s#the reals#string diagrams, &#
09:15:30 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms.
09:15:44 <shachaf> Taneb: Oh, you invented string diagrams?
09:15:55 <shachaf> Can you answer questions about them?
09:16:22 <Taneb> shachaf, I can give it a shot, but I'm a bit distracted right now
09:16:41 <Taneb> A 1961 paper on equivalence relations
09:18:24 <Taneb> "An Algorithm for Equivalence Declarations", by Arden, Galler, and Graham
09:20:18 <shachaf> is this paper even online twh
09:20:49 <Taneb> I hope it is, otherwise I am hallucinating quite badly
09:22:40 <Taneb> I've got it through ACM's digital library
09:23:42 <shachaf> That reminds me of my question the other day: Is there a good online algorithm for strongly connected components?
09:31:08 -!- LKoen has joined.
09:40:17 <Cale> shachaf: I can sort of imagine one which partitions the graph and keeps around a tree of the results for subparts so that when you remove an edge, you haven't lost all the previously completed work
09:44:26 <shachaf> Well, there's a great answer for undirected graphs.
09:49:29 <shachaf> I can't think of a way to do something similar for directed graphs, though.
09:53:15 <HackEgo> sweden//Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize.
09:53:19 <lifthrasiir> I cannot concentrate because of everything happening in my country
09:53:22 <HackEgo> algebraic chess notation//Algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess.
09:53:34 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: which country?
09:53:49 <lifthrasiir> well, Koera sounds like a name of some animal
09:54:15 <Taneb> lifthrasiir, what is happening?
09:54:45 <lifthrasiir> I cannot coherently describe all the matter, so I will refer to /r/korea comment https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/593x2a/eli5_can_someone_explain_the_whole_corruption/
09:55:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:56:32 <Taneb> Major corruption scandal?
09:57:53 <\oren\> what, another one, this time in Korea? is there not a single honest politician on the planet left?
09:57:59 <lifthrasiir> Taneb: it turned out that the current president (PGH) was related to an external personnel, who received and backed virtually everything about the country
09:58:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:58:49 <lifthrasiir> there were tons of rumors about that personnel for a long time but now it is nearly confirmed, even partially by the president herself
09:59:30 -!- LKoen has joined.
09:59:58 -!- Frooxius has joined.
10:00:11 <lifthrasiir> PGH was already known for her incoherent speeches and strange endeavors but no one was sure why she does so, until this incident
10:01:04 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: one even calls the current gov't as shamanism gov't, because the personnel was related to the new religion movement as well
10:01:58 <lifthrasiir> well, not even proper NRM because it was closer to the shamanism indeed
10:02:05 <\oren\> uh-oh, that sounds even worse than your normal, old fashioned corporate corruption
10:03:46 <lifthrasiir> I've come to appreciate the robustness of bureaucracy, the country was able to survive this amount of absurdness for past 4 years
10:06:40 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: the personnel was living in Germany, communicating with PGH (or closest persons) via a personal email, and ran out shortly before the reporters tried to contact her; the compelling evidences was found in a computer around other wastes
10:07:22 <lifthrasiir> so it's essentially country-level confidence information found in a dumping ground
10:13:21 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: hahahaha, my reporter friend sent me this tweet https://twitter.com/allyjung/status/790831548308205568
10:13:54 <lifthrasiir> this IS pretty much close to the truth (wrt current evidences)
10:16:04 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:21:58 -!- LKoen has joined.
10:22:39 <HackEgo> Algebraic chess? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:22:44 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:26:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:26:32 -!- augur has joined.
10:31:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
11:13:14 <izalove> https://libreboot.org/gnu/
11:21:56 <hppavilion[1]> Whelp, now I have to spend the next several months awaiting MOAR ponies
11:22:23 <ybden> izalove: which bit in particular?
11:23:32 <izalove> the part where the fsf fired a transgender woman, the part where they claim that libreboot is still a gnu project against the maintainer's will...
11:30:40 <Jafet> the latter seems legally valid. the former seems like how most large nonprofits are run.
11:34:24 <ybden> Hm, howso (regarding the latter)? I'd have expected that they would be able to leave the larger GNU project if they wanted
11:34:52 -!- boily has joined.
11:37:29 <izalove> fsf requires you to transfer them the copyright on your code
11:37:50 <izalove> so it's legally valid but still a shitty move
11:41:49 <ybden> I forgot about that...
11:42:05 <ybden> Not great with morals
11:43:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
11:49:48 <HackEgo> cello//The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.
11:51:22 <izalove> what does that have to do with python or haskell?
11:52:16 * izalove has strong opinions on their garbage collector
11:56:35 <ybden> izalove: it is a c library...
11:57:00 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:57:36 <Taneb> I once forgot what bin men were called
11:57:58 <Taneb> Doing roughly 50% of a computer science degree, the only term I could think of was "garbage collector"
11:58:34 <hppavilion[1]> I want to play scrabble with Randall Munroe now...
11:59:16 <HackEgo> Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files.
12:01:00 <boily> you're on the wrong coast hth
12:02:28 <Taneb> That means it's lunchtime here!
12:05:31 <boily> I'm an Approximal Coördinatist.
12:07:46 <hppavilion[1]> It IS a bit ironic to criticize prescriptivists, isn't it...
12:10:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
12:23:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:24:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:30:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NEXT CHICKEN).
12:31:06 -!- godel has joined.
12:39:59 <int-e> böily lives a dangeroüs life
12:46:39 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
12:49:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants/Ordered]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50037 * Mroman * (+31697) constants ordered by cycles, length, cells.
13:13:50 -!- `^_^v has joined.
13:23:21 -!- LKoen has joined.
13:37:24 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
13:50:40 -!- Nithogg has joined.
14:05:14 -!- moony has joined.
14:07:25 <lynn> izalove: That libreboot thing is awful, the FSF creeps me out :(
14:12:33 -!- lynn has quit.
14:12:45 -!- lynn has joined.
14:29:33 -!- xkapastel has joined.
14:54:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
14:58:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:03:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
15:08:12 <quintopia> @tell boily aubergine/self-modifying BF mashup done
15:10:37 <ybden> izalove: you linked those parallel pastes in here, right?
15:11:39 <ybden> or was it elsewhere...
15:11:46 <ybden> no, you linked the libreboot thing in here
15:13:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:16:04 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
15:46:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
15:57:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
16:09:16 -!- otherbot has joined.
16:19:54 <b_jonas> --irreversible-delete is a funny option name
16:25:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:30:51 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:39:13 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:40:36 -!- Cale has joined.
16:44:09 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
16:46:20 -!- Frooxius has joined.
16:59:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:09:38 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:12:31 -!- Cale has joined.
17:22:14 <\oren\> Taneb, they call them the garbage men here in Canada, not "bin men"
17:24:23 <\oren\> also, we call it a "garbage can" not a "bin"
17:29:00 -!- Vorpal has changed nick to Vorpal_.
17:29:06 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal.
18:11:22 -!- aloril has joined.
18:19:13 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18:19:45 -!- Cale has joined.
18:29:42 -!- augur has joined.
18:31:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:31:04 -!- alercah has quit (Quit: leaving).
18:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> Linguistic prank: Create a cats-cats merger and teats it to your tsildren
18:32:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit).
18:33:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:36:56 <\oren\> yU mEn a cats - catC mRjR?
18:38:21 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: linguistic changes don't do swaps. chains of 3 or 4 are known though
18:38:42 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: It can't do swaps naturally. This is artificial
18:39:23 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Is it done by compounding mergers and splitters?
18:41:21 <\oren\> also chains that aren't closed, like Grimm's law
18:42:29 <\oren\> aspirated voiced stop -> voiced unaspirated stop -> unvoiced stop -> fricative
18:43:09 <\oren\> it's the sound law that made the Germanic family sound so different from the Romance family
18:43:41 <b_jonas> you can get somewhat close to a swap in multiple steps
18:45:11 <\oren\> izalove: I don't watch american tv much
18:45:15 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: you need two sounds that are distinguished in multiple dimensions, and a listener that cares more about some dimension different than the speaker, and the speaker changing the dimension the listener cares about a bit
18:45:36 <izalove> \oren\: that's your problem!
18:45:59 <izalove> they have no luke perry so no
18:46:07 <\oren\> Genre: Teen Drama, Soap Opera... oh dear
18:48:22 <hppavilion[1]> (Can't come up with a joke about the TV watching you though...)
18:48:44 <hppavilion[1]> Oceana TVs are made by a company called Abyss, Inc.
18:52:40 <\oren\> Bah. Oh. I see a 1991 NYT article that describes Luke Perry as a "heartthrob"
18:53:10 <\oren\> and I was -2 years old
18:54:00 <\oren\> hey that's an idea. negative ages!
18:55:12 -!- imode has joined.
18:55:54 <int-e> 'twas the year 2 b.o.
19:03:54 -!- alercah has joined.
19:04:54 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:04:55 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:05:53 <HackEgo> companion cube//There's cake inside it. Tear it apart, rip open your companion, and extract the delicious, delicious cake...
19:06:23 * Zarutian is hunted by Portal refererences.
19:08:17 -!- Zarutian has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:09:16 <int-e> Zarutian: but are you also haunted by your companion cube (euthanized)?
19:10:45 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:11:22 -!- Zarutian has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:12:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
19:13:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:14:47 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:21:02 -!- otherbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
19:22:23 -!- otherbot has joined.
19:30:59 <HackEgo> gostak//The gostak distims the doshes.
19:33:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:34:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
19:43:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Eamanu * New user account
19:43:32 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:44:33 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:47:51 <\oren\> the tower of coffee cups on my desk is almost above the cubicle wall
19:50:53 <hppavilion[1]> God, there's this one region of my screen where the mouse doesn't detect anything for no apparent reason
19:51:02 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if there's a hidden overlay there or something
19:51:35 <hppavilion[1]> Which happens to be the region where Firefox's scrollbar is
19:52:14 <Zarutian> so, you cant go for a scroll, eh?
19:52:51 <hppavilion[1]> (If I click outside the region, it still holds, so the button is still registered as pressed- it's just that if I click there it doesn't catch it)
19:53:00 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: what other thinks are open?
19:53:54 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Windows I can see are Firefox, two Windows Explorers, Notepad++, two Bash instances, Hexchat, several PyCharm windows, and task manager
19:56:08 -!- Cale has joined.
19:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> Background stuff (or, well, whatever is handled at the lower right corner) is Lenovo Transition (which I just launched to see if that was part of the issue), Intel Rapid Storage, Webroot, Mercurial, Bluetooth, WD Quick View, and battery/volume/wifi
19:57:16 <hppavilion[1]> (It's possible it's something physical on the touchscreen, but I've thoroughly wiped down the affected region)
20:02:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
20:05:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:06:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:12:05 <Taneb> I am going to regret basically just eating bread today in the morning
20:13:22 -!- Zarutian has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:13:54 -!- Zarutian has joined.
20:15:00 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( `le/rn Existential Quantifier/The existential quantifier is what happens when you have an unstressed vowel at the beginning of a sentence )
20:15:39 -!- Reece` has joined.
20:19:56 -!- Reece` has left.
20:22:11 -!- LKoen has joined.
20:22:22 <HackEgo> grep: invalid argument ‘import’ for ‘--directories’ \ Valid arguments are: \ - ‘read’ \ - ‘recurse’ \ - ‘skip’ \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
20:22:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/umlaut
20:22:52 <HackEgo> Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico
20:23:40 <HackEgo> Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable.
20:23:53 <HackEgo> wisdom/indonesia \ wisdom/reflection
20:23:56 <HackEgo> Indonesia is a large island country in Asia and the world's most populous muslim country. Its major export is rayon textile from the Indonesian fnord.
20:25:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit).
20:28:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:35:12 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
20:38:38 <hppavilion[1]> I've been wondering for a while why parents can love an adopted child as much as a biological one given the lack of the child carrying their genes
20:39:52 <hppavilion[1]> (Note: I know for a fact that they CAN and DO love adopted children exactly the same- my sister is very adopted, and my father even has a joke where he says [to me] "Just because you're my biological child, doesn't mean I love you any less"- but I'm trying understand *why* it happens
20:41:31 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:42:00 <hppavilion[1]> And it just occurred to me that it makes perfect sense if you accept that there is *any* degree of Nurture in Nature vs. Nurture (which you have to; at this point, it's a debate of "Some mostly nurture but some nature vs. just nurture")
20:43:27 <hppavilion[1]> Because memetics- someone need not be your offspring to acquire your memes. While adopted children will not pass on your genes, they will carry and spread your memes, which need not be carried that way.
20:50:38 <HackEgo> U+201A SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK \ UTF-8: e2 80 9a UTF-16BE: 201a Decimal: ‚ \ ‚ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+002C COMMA \ UTF-8: 2c UTF-16BE: 002c Decimal: , \ , \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: CS (Common Number Separator)
20:51:56 <HackEgo> rainbow//Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
20:52:06 <HackEgo> 1268) <shachaf> pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it.
20:52:15 <HackEgo> 160) Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/
20:52:18 -!- Cale has joined.
20:52:23 <HackEgo> 458) <elliott> I MIGHT BECOME GHOST
20:52:28 <HackEgo> 1235) <Taneb> Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times [...] <Taneb> I was, in fact, not cosplaying
21:11:46 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:17:34 -!- FireFly has changed nick to FeerieFly.
21:17:52 -!- FeerieFly has changed nick to FearFly.
21:20:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:24:54 -!- Cale has joined.
21:34:43 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
21:37:37 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:38:06 <Taneb> That was a fun weekend
21:39:53 <Zarutian> Taneb: have you truely met her or only be in close personal proximity?
21:40:14 <Taneb> Zarutian, she stopped me in a corridor and said my fleece was nice
21:40:37 <Taneb> Zarutian, that was the extent of our interaction
21:41:21 <Taneb> So, somewhere between the tw
21:43:49 <HackEgo> 388) <oklopol> you know that thing in the movies where they put a pillow on someone's face and try to suffocate them <oklopol> that doesn't work. <oklopol> we tried that with my ex once, but we just couldn't kill each other that way
21:45:38 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
21:45:39 <Zarutian> „If you look long enough at something then you will see something.“ -Blantantly Obvious
21:45:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:45:53 <shachaf> Taneb is perhaps more of a goat.
21:46:16 <Taneb> shachaf, to my knowledge I am neither a goat nor a sheep
21:46:26 <shachaf> `? people who taneb is not
21:46:27 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
21:47:10 <shachaf> Taneb: Do you think the dairy industry is something I can continue to be complicit in?
21:47:27 <Taneb> shachaf, yeah, sure, go for it
21:47:35 <Taneb> I was considering getting a glass of milk myself
21:47:38 <Zarutian> shachat: only if you keep writing about your days with milk
21:48:58 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
21:50:14 -!- Cale has joined.
21:53:49 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
22:04:33 <HackEgo> Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
22:05:09 <lynn> Can someone make a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splay_tree dual joke so I don't have to
22:07:46 <hppavilion[1]> Given a the bag X = fact(x) representing the prime factorization of a nonzero natural number, calculate the prime bag of that number's successor (without just doing fact(product(X)+1))
22:08:06 <hppavilion[1]> Equivalently, how are the prime factorizations of consecutive nonzero naturals related?
22:09:34 <Taneb> Do I get a glass of orange juice or a glass of milk
22:09:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: As in it's an open problem or known to be unsolvable?
22:10:13 <hppavilion[1]> (Is this one of those things that seems simple enough, but solving it immediately leads to a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis?)
22:10:30 <shachaf> It's not stated well enough to be open or closed.
22:10:50 <wob_jonas> fungot, can you make a Splay tree dual joke so lynn doesn't have to?
22:10:50 <fungot> wob_jonas: i don't like country or whatever :) fnord
22:11:50 <Taneb> I guess orange juice it is
22:12:36 <hppavilion[1]> (A bag, bearing in mind, is essentially a set with counting; so fact(1500) = {2:2, 3:1, 5:3} (3:1 could just be written "3"))
22:13:21 <shachaf> A positive natural number is a bag of primes.
22:14:17 <Taneb> My favourite thing about that representation is you can extend it with multiple zeros
22:14:51 <\oren\> you can drink orange juice mixed with milk if you drink it fast
22:14:58 <Taneb> Well, zero is the supremum in the divisibility lattice
22:15:32 <Taneb> So if you treat a bag of primes as a function from prime to N \union {infinity}
22:15:53 <HackEgo> Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
22:16:12 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: Taneb: I normally use the notation [2,2,3,5,5,5]
22:16:29 <HackEgo> <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1 \ <evilips̈e> ` chmod 777 / -R \ <int-̈e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais52̈3> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <oerjän> revert \ <ellioẗt> revert 1 \ <Bik̈e> revert \ <FreeFul̈l> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <ellioẗt> revert 2416 \ <Sgëo> revert 2243 \ <Tanë
22:16:32 <shachaf> That looks more like a list.
22:16:37 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I prefer to use [] exclusively for order and {} exclusively for non-order
22:16:40 <ais523> not in a mathematical paper
22:16:47 <ais523> a list would be 2::2::3::5::5::5
22:16:54 <shachaf> ais523: You should use ⟅2,2,3,5,5,5⟆
22:17:14 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: [2, 2, 3, 5, 5, 5] means exactly the same thing it seems
22:17:14 <lynn> shachaf: Those bag brackets ♥
22:17:14 <ais523> but the notation somehow ended up as array notation in programming languages, rather than multiset like it is in mathematical papers
22:19:21 <\oren\> evil idea: revert every changw whose hash contains a f
22:21:44 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
22:21:44 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Changing host).
22:21:44 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
22:22:32 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Also, bear in mind that no matter what brackets you use, a v:c notation (optimally in conjunction with v v v ... [c]) is a more friendly notation if the multiplicities are any larger than 4 (so you have to actually count), large in general (so you spend 5 pages on 2s), or if you want to create multiplicity from a non-constant (e.g. saying that n^2 has factorization {val v: 2*(mul v) | v in fact(n)})
22:23:29 <wob_jonas> shouldn't bag brackets be something like c[ ... ] because the c is the handle of the bag?
22:23:44 <wob_jonas> but with the c touching the bracket
22:23:55 <\oren\> another idea: a programming language where the xompiler reads the change history of the file and modifies the assembly code for each change in the code
22:24:34 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:24:41 <hppavilion[1]> I have two conflicting ideas for what brackets to use in bags; on one hand, they're a different thing so we shouldn't use the same, but similar enough that it should be apparent they're related- so I like ⦃⦄
22:25:14 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
22:25:14 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Changing host).
22:25:14 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has joined.
22:25:22 <hppavilion[1]> But on the other hand, you could argue that a set is a bag where mul(v) = 0 or mul(v) = 1
22:26:15 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: the c should be moved closer to the [ so they touch. it's the handle of the bag.
22:27:22 <hppavilion[1]> Bags generalize the sets the same way rationals generalize integers, so why write it differently? If you only want sets, say "s in \bb{St}"
22:27:45 <hppavilion[1]> (Where St is the set of all sets, but isn't *really* because that leads to a contradiction pretty fast)
22:28:31 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: I kind of want to make it symmetrical though. And to make the brackets curved like parentheses so it still has an analogy to {}
22:29:44 <wob_jonas> wob_jonas: if you want it symmetric, then use a bag with two handles, like c[ ... ]ɔ
22:29:48 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking a nice, fancymath looking notation would be a parenthesis that has a small break at the midline with a handle curving around connecting on opposite sides of the break (far enough past that there's an overhang after the handle connects but before the break)
22:30:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:35:55 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn flu shot/flu shots are usually available from some time in the first half of November
22:35:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'flu shot': flu shots are usually available from some time in the first half of November
22:36:18 <wob_jonas> so I don't have to look it up next year when to start asking the pharmacies whether they have it yet
22:36:46 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: They apparently already have one for it
22:37:02 <wob_jonas> nah, it will be really bad in January
22:37:10 <wob_jonas> that's why the flu shot is available before that time
22:40:25 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Oh? How do they know it'll be bad in January?
22:40:39 <wob_jonas> hpp: it's bad in January and February every year
22:41:08 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, do you mean that the current strain of the flu's properties will add up to very badness in January weather?
22:41:16 -!- augur has joined.
22:42:20 <wob_jonas> hpp: not really the properties, it's that in January and February, many other people will have the flu, so it will be too easy to catch the flu yourself, unless you are vaccinated, in which case it's not so easy
22:47:58 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: But my father works in a hospital laboratory (where they handle bloodwork and urine analysis (which you just pronounce "urinalysis" or you get funny looks, appparently)), and he said (according to my mother) that the flu is particularly nasty this year
22:49:55 -!- boily has joined.
22:51:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: iwsdom: not found
22:51:23 <HackEgo> postorder//Postorder is the same as Polish notation, since Post was Polish. Not to be confused with reverse Polish notation, which is postfix.
22:51:29 <lambdabot> quintopia said 7h 43m 15s ago: aubergine/self-modifying BF mashup done
22:56:34 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has quit (Quit: Bye).
22:57:30 -!- Froox has joined.
22:57:53 <FearFly> you should don a seasonal nickname too
22:58:14 -!- boily has changed nick to booly.
22:58:32 <FearFly> that is almost unreasonably easy to pun
22:58:45 <FearFly> I think FearFly isn't all that good
22:58:48 -!- booly has changed nick to boily.
22:59:41 <boily> izellove. are you spooky?
22:59:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:01:21 -!- moony has quit (Disconnected by services).
23:01:44 -!- ubuntu1 has joined.
23:02:53 <HackEgo> ubuntu1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:03:15 <izalove> i need to teach weechat to highlight me on all the variations of my nickname
23:11:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:14:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com).
23:15:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:18:40 -!- wanderman has joined.
23:20:26 <boily> he\\oren\. spooked?
23:20:26 <\oren\> terminate called after throwing an instance of char *
23:21:13 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:22:30 <\oren\> why can't people just throw actual exceptions and not c strings!
23:23:08 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Ptc3X8WiA
23:23:11 <ais523> I remember that back when I was learning C++
23:23:18 <ais523> I threw an integer just to see what would happen
23:23:41 <ais523> hmm, what's your opinion on Java's rule of only allowing things to be thrown if they inherit from Throwable?
23:23:53 <wob_jonas> well, there's like three reasons why a throw can call terminate: uncaught exception, exception thrown out of a noexcept function, exception thrown during unrolling.
23:24:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit).
23:24:45 <ais523> huh, I didn't even think of the exception thrown during unrolling case
23:24:51 <\oren\> right but this message doesn't tell me what the char * was, where it was thrown from, or literally anything whatsoever
23:24:55 <ais523> does that end the program or just discard the first exception?
23:26:15 <wob_jonas> you can install a terminate handler that does something, but you can't return from that handler
23:26:35 <wob_jonas> and actually there's more than three ways
23:26:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:26:45 <wob_jonas> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/error/terminate lists all of the ways
23:26:48 <ais523> can you throw out of terminate?
23:27:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: probably no. I think the function calling the terminate handler is noexcept or something
23:27:34 -!- MoALTz has joined.
23:27:43 <ais523> what about using an actual longjmp? I imagine that'd make the C++ standards weep in pain
23:28:54 <wob_jonas> ais523: I'm not sure of the rules, but basically terminate is called in cases when the normal state of the program is screwed up so much that you can't continue it, so even if you could longjmp back to the normal stack, you would get undefined behavior
23:29:57 <wob_jonas> I haven't actually tried to understand the rules of what a custom terminate handler is allowed to do, because at that point you're screwed anyway so the default terminate handler which just aborts is always the right one
23:30:35 <wob_jonas> I don't even know why they have a new function for it instead of just calling abort rightaway
23:31:19 <wob_jonas> (abort can still be handled with a signal handler, but obviously you're not allowed to do much from there either)
23:31:51 <olsner> \oren\: reminds me of icecc (the distributed compile thing) which used 'int' for all exceptions
23:32:24 <olsner> they recently switched to exceptions with actual messages though
23:33:02 <fizzie> My former university's speech recognition system threw around char *s, I think.
23:33:30 <ais523> I wrote a Java program which throws an IntegerException at one point
23:33:32 <fizzie> No, actually they throw std::string's.
23:33:35 <ais523> which is just an Exception with an int field
23:33:40 <fizzie> I wonder if that's changed recently.
23:33:49 <ais523> but it's meant as a fairly literal translation from C, and that's how I translated a setjmp/longjmp pair
23:34:54 <fizzie> Seems to have been std::string always.
23:35:16 <ais523> can terminate stringify a std::string?
23:35:27 <ais523> I guess not, there's no consistent way to stringify things in C++
23:35:31 -!- moony has joined.
23:35:37 <ais523> and you can't locate stringification functions another way because a char * is not necessarily a string
23:36:21 <fizzie> Also there's a number of cases of throw str::fmt(128, "blah blah: %d", some_integer); where namespace str { std::string fmt(size_t size, const char *fmt, ...); }
23:36:51 <ais523> is anything catching these strings? and if so, does it just show them to the user?
23:36:54 <wob_jonas> Who needs error handling? I just call abort() for any error.
23:37:15 <ais523> incidentally, in Perl 5, throwing strings seems to be idiomatic
23:37:16 <fizzie> ais523: Yes and yes, though I only looked at actual command-line programs.
23:37:27 <ais523> some of the built-in functions do it
23:37:46 <ais523> wob_jonas: exit() is normally better if there's any possibility that it's user error rather than an internal logic error
23:37:57 <ais523> abort() is more like NetHack's panic()
23:40:00 <wob_jonas> ais523: I usually print an error message before aborting
23:43:23 <ais523> wob_jonas: well abort() dumps core and can lead to a bunch of internal debug information being dumped to the screen
23:45:03 -!- ubuntu1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:50:22 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:51:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:55:23 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, technically exit is usually better for a user error
23:55:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:59:10 <HackEgo> can't//can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staff task
23:59:43 <fungot> boily: i don't really talk about it.
23:59:53 <boily> \oren\: we don't really talk about it.