00:06:10 fizzie: I'm speechless 00:06:32 hi speechless! 00:07:07 I like it. Have you worn this in public?! I hope so 00:08:08 fizzie: gorgeous 00:08:22 something summoned a demon with my terminal while i was afk http://i.imgur.com/9YxarEH.png 00:08:23 For the last few weeks it's actually been waiting for me to take that photo; now it's going to the wash, and *then* I'll be wearing it in public. 00:09:10 itmakes me want to make something big in an esolang to print it on a shirt 00:10:31 I thought about the flowchart version of fungot, but it wouldn't've been readable, unlike this snippet. 00:10:31 fizzie: and unless you sleep the disk during most of holidays and weekends, zurich during weekdays. :) there were some differences with structs at least 00:13:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:15:09 hi lynn 00:15:50 fizzie can tell when people are speechless 00:16:16 it's part of speech recognition 00:17:07 what's the flowchart cersion? 00:19:06 myname: https://users.ics.aalto.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png (or remove "small" for a 5x larger version where you can actually read the labels) 00:19:06 fizzie: i love the internets. 00:19:12 fungot: I know, right. 00:19:13 fizzie: configure.ac is *not* up-to-date in cvs. what you say 00:19:40 so... what should i write with which language to put it on a shirt? 00:20:02 (I'm pleasantly surprised that thing still exists; my user account died long ago, and I couldn't find a local copy anywhere.) 00:20:09 fizzie: I take it the shirt isn't all of fungot, just a representative sample? 00:20:09 ais523: are you asking stupid things about option one is if you had 0, your input wouldn't work, it'd have waited until now :) thanks 00:20:26 ais523: It's only the babble generation part, right. 00:20:43 minus the actual babble dictionaries 00:21:01 although I see an "ELIF" which is probably a fingerprint load 00:21:01 Yes, those are separate files. 00:21:12 so I guess it's loading them from files 00:21:38 If you can call it "loading". It's actually mostly just seeking around the files, reading a few bytes here and there. 00:21:50 I didn't want to get the memory bloat of loading them all to fungespace. 00:22:57 (The "irc" style is 195659600 bytes of n-gram trees and 1042812 bytes of a token-index-to-string map.) 00:23:32 The lower part is a binary search, I think. 00:23:41 I don't exactly remember what it is a binary search *of*. 00:24:30 (But the "cur>" and "cur<" and "match" comments do suggest it's looking for something.) 00:26:48 http://esolangs.org/w/images/2/25/Ziim_%E2%80%94_Add.png rotated 90 degrees would be an interesting motive 00:27:23 clearly we need an mmap fingerprint 00:29:54 What should my botprefix be? 00:29:56 ^prefixes 00:29:56 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . 00:30:25 -!- boily has joined. 00:30:29 It appears metasepia isn't on atm. Is e pretty much gone? 00:30:33 ahoily. I'm making a bot! 00:31:02 (Lambdabot hogs prefixes so much... it's kind of annoying 00:31:05 ) 00:32:00 ~test 00:32:07 OK, I'll go with ~ then 00:32:18 metasepia isn't here right now 00:32:50 Last seen 2014-09-10 in my logs. 00:32:56 That's a while ago already. 00:33:11 hppavellon[1]! I ought to revive it >_>'... 00:33:17 boily: NO 00:33:25 his523. I know the hiatus is long. sorry. 00:33:30 boily: If you do, I have dibs on the ~ prefix. 00:33:32 fizziello. that's about right v_v 00:33:49 @metar EGLL 00:33:50 EGLL 232320Z AUTO 04004KT 9999 NCD 10/06 Q1011 NOSIG 00:33:52 * boily *THWACKS* hppavilion[1] away from the prefix 00:34:14 boily: Soon, you will be able to thwack people via my bot and have it be meaningful. 00:34:49 as long as you use something else than ~. afaik, nobody has & yet. 00:35:03 or you can use ˝ if you want. 00:35:34 (although I believe it'd be fittinger if b_jonas used it. the wob_jonas bot, the wobbot.) 00:35:48 wasn't there a language named tube or something similar? 00:36:00 @metar CYUL 00:36:01 CYUL 232300Z 26015G26KT 15SM FEW250 09/M03 A2963 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP037 00:37:03 ah, tubes 00:37:10 the search function is stupid 00:37:58 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:40:19 <\oren\> we've always been at war with Eastasia 00:40:33 he\\oren\. no we haven't. 00:40:41 -!- advbot has joined. 00:40:41 H3110! 00:40:49 ~test 00:40:50 -!- advbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:52 Damn 00:41:17 Oh, simple ordering error 00:41:26 too bad, tubes is underspecified 00:41:48 \oren\: Oh? 00:41:51 wait, it's not 00:41:53 <\oren\> shut up oldthinker. you must bellyfeel ingsoc 00:41:57 \oren\: My bot is supposed to have realname OceanaJones 00:42:04 * boily looks at hppavilion[1]. very intently looks. feel yourself being looked at. 00:42:36 I called a method of the argument on the object, rather than the reverse 00:43:51 -!- advbot has joined. 00:43:51 AdventureBot Joined! 00:43:58 ~test 00:43:58 hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net: Message acknowledged 00:44:01 Yay! 00:44:24 \oren\: I'm not wearing any ingsocks, and my bellyfeel is full of phở. Eurasia is our ally. 00:44:41 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:45:22 * boily is still glaring at hppavilion[1]. "'tis my prefix, you vile heathen! I shall virtually shake my fist at you! In your approximate direction!" 00:45:37 <\oren\> have the walloons accepted our trade agreement yet? 00:46:12 I don't think so... 00:46:54 «Le Canada et l'Union européenne ont donné à la Belgique jusqu'à lundi soir pour dire si elle soutient ou non l'accord de libre-échange, sinon la cérémonie de signature sera annulée, selon une source de l'agence Reuters.» ← It won't happen until tomorrow night. 00:56:11 `wisdom 00:56:20 unréliable//unréliable is French for «peu fiable». 00:56:34 sooo... what can you program with like 3 different characters to output 00:56:53 i thought about game of life, but i don't know if this isn't lver the top 00:59:19 boily: If you can propose an unterrible prefix, I will accept it. Note that & is bad because it's overused. 01:00:10 boily: Multi-symbol prefixes are acceptable- will metasepia trigger on '~~'? 01:01:09 hppavilion[1]: ¤, ±, ¶, §, ¢ are all interesting. 01:01:16 maybe. it's been a long time... 01:01:31 boily: Perhaps, but I want something that can be done on a normal keyboard. 01:02:53 I didn't suggest ⅞ nor Ω. 01:03:15 ⅞ 01:03:22 perfectly standard keyboard here 01:03:28 I don't know how to type that capital omega though 01:03:39 Sure, I can type ¢, ¤, €, §, ±, ∓, ≥, ≤, ¿, ⸮, ‽, ⸘, ⟦, ⟧, ∨, |, ¦, ⦃, ⦄, ≈, ×, ⁂, ¡, ‰, ‱, ∧, 〔, 〕, 〈, and 〉on command from my keyboard 01:03:41 But most people can't 01:03:52 fizzie: So I heard there's a new Linux privilege escalation bug. What do you think of using it in HackEgo? 01:03:54 (≥ would be a fun prefix though...) 01:03:56 ≥test 01:04:07 ais523: Canadien Multilingue Standard. it's very standard and sane! 01:04:08 ...OK, I'm going with ≥ for fun 01:04:16 Unless there's some weird unicode thing 01:04:29 ais523: ISO Level 5 + Shift + Q for the “Ω” hth 01:04:36 -!- advbot has joined. 01:04:36 AdventureBot Joined! 01:04:49 I'm going to remove the joinalert... 01:04:52 ≥Hi 01:04:52 hppavilion[1]: Message acknowledged 01:05:05 :) 01:05:11 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:05:38 § is a great idea 01:06:38 shachaf: I'm hoping it wouldn't account to much, because I don't think the root user is supposed to be able to do much in umlbox that a normal user can't. 01:06:55 I thought root access in UML was approximately the same as user access to the host? 01:07:28 Mmmaybe. I don't think it's supposed to be, but it's possible it's porous enough to be that. 01:07:51 Can't a root user install arbitrary kernel modules etc. in UML? 01:08:36 <\oren\> I have ❄ as the prefix for my bot 01:08:38 It's got CONFIG_MODULES=n. 01:08:48 Nobody can install arbitrary modules on *that*. 01:09:12 well, the escalation bug allowed you to write to arbitrary cache pages 01:09:26 the usual exploit is to get a copy of /usr/bin/su cached in memory, then overwrite it to do something else and execute it 01:09:37 but maybe there's some exploit that escalates a different way 01:09:39 \oren\: did it snow in Ontario today? 01:09:57 <\oren\> yes, at least up where my grandparents live 01:10:06 <\oren\> not here in toronto tho 01:10:56 <\oren\> trying to fill up more gaps in my font now 01:11:18 fizzie: OK, so can we enable root access to HackEgo? twh 01:11:39 <\oren\> `? twh 01:11:41 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 01:11:56 <\oren\> `? hand 01:11:58 \oren\: are you planning on supporting brahmic scripts? 01:11:59 A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 01:12:36 <\oren\> boily: maybe someday. I have Devanagari and Thai working already though 01:13:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIvDVhN5Lv4 01:14:09 shachaf: I guess the bug already did that? hth 01:16:43 <\oren\> ttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2742/index.htm <-- WTFFFFFF 01:17:10 <\oren\> in what universe is that a CIRCLED OPEN CENTRE EIGHT POINTED STAR 01:17:39 <\oren\> it's a cluster of 13 circles of various size! 01:19:05 That's not what it looks like in the actual Unicode code chart. 01:19:36 Looks like they have the wrong default image 01:19:42 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2742/browsertest.htm 01:19:51 Some weird font maybe 01:19:56 <\oren\> yeah, luckily i cross reference this stuff 01:20:19 Arial Unicode MS is the font with the weird symbol 01:24:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:27:08 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDq2xeed40 01:27:32 @messages- 01:27:33 fizzie said 10h 13m 19s ago: The revert-file-additions thing was more subtle than I thought. 01:27:33 fizzie said 10h 12m 53s ago: Turns out "hg revert" *does* remove (tracked) files that did not exist in the revision to revert to. The problem is that it *removes* them instead of *deleting* them. 01:27:33 fizzie said 10h 12m 39s ago: Mercurial has both "deleted" (doesn't exist but is still tracked) and "removed" (doesn't exist and is no longer tracked) states for a file. 01:27:33 fizzie said 10h 12m 15s ago: As far as I can tell, the transact code wasn't expecting anything to be "removed" (because commands in the sandbox can't), so it only checked for deleted file in the 01:27:33 status and never made a commit if the only change was files having been "removed" (like after a `revert of adding a file). 01:27:35 fizzie said 10h 11m 50s ago: So after a `revert of a file addition, the repository was left in an inconsistent state, and the next command that caused a commit inadvertently restored the removed 01:27:37 file when it cleaned up the state for the second run. 01:27:39 fizzie said 10h 10m 53s ago: I think it doesn't hurt to just include removed files in the "commit or not?" check as well, so I'll propose that. 01:27:41 boily said 10h 8m 3s ago: that's a lot of @tell oerjans! 01:27:43 fizzie said 8h 51m 51s ago: btw fyi https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-requests/5 hth hand 01:27:54 if only one could check these messages in query 01:28:37 i hate it when lambdabot annoys me in query for messages i already read somehow else 01:28:51 maybe this was a bad idea. 01:29:04 @tell boily yep! 01:29:04 Consider it noted. 01:29:22 * izalove grabs popcorn 01:29:44 @tell izalove please send pooch pics twh 01:29:45 Consider it noted. 01:30:48 https://rs391.pbsrc.com/albums/oo357/autobono/angrydog.jpg~c200 01:35:32 fizzie: that was indeed subtle. 01:37:25 @massages 01:38:06 helpoochaf. 01:39:37 What part of the IRC protocol to I use to check that a user is logged in? 01:39:43 (in the nickserv sense) 01:39:53 hppavilion[1]: to check that you're logged in or that someone else is? 01:40:03 hppavilion[1]: WHOIS gives that info 01:40:04 ais523: Someone else 01:40:05 OK 01:40:17 also note that nickserv is an extension to IRC, not an actual part of IRC, so it doesn't work the same way on every server 01:40:25 on most servers, though, it's either whois or mode 01:40:29 may not be the least verbose method, since it gives much other info too 01:41:01 some servers change the username, in which case /who would work 01:41:29 hm is the change of /whois to /whowas for a recently logged out user something the server does, or the client? 01:41:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 01:41:38 client 01:41:44 good 01:41:55 at the protocol level, you repeat the name to do a whowas 01:41:55 -!- HackEgo has joined. 01:42:01 WHO BROKE HACKEGO 01:42:07 eg WHOIS HackEgo HackEgo 01:42:08 * oerjan hopes it was Gregor 01:42:17 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 01:42:26 `welcome atehwa_ 01:42:28 atehwa_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:42:44 alercah: oh? that does something else too ... gives idle time 01:42:48 (if logged in) 01:43:05 what happens if you give a second argument that doesn't match the first? 01:43:38 -!- atehwa has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 01:43:38 -!- iovoid has quit (Excess Flood). 01:43:40 oh it's back already 01:43:47 ais523: then it's a server name 01:44:09 (assuming the raw protocol is the same as irssi's /whois there) 01:44:35 * oerjan has /wii aliased to that repetition. it may have been preset. 01:45:00 it may have been contributed by nintendo 01:45:43 `? nintendo 01:45:44 nintendo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:34 ais523: That reminds me of a conversation yesterday about second derivatives : (U ⊗ U -> V). Apparently people always pass in the same argument twice? 01:47:43 there are fewer practical uses for differentiating by two different variables 01:48:05 -!- iovoid- has joined. 01:48:12 I still don't know what it means for it to be a bilinear map. What happens if you vary just one argument? 01:49:33 shachaf: If you vary just one argument, it behaves linearly 01:52:21 -!- iovoid- has changed nick to iovoid. 01:52:28 -!- Yurume|q_ has joined. 01:52:48 -!- ski_ has joined. 01:53:12 -!- Yurume|q has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:53:12 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:54:44 shachaf: and that's the actual definition of bilinear hth 01:54:54 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 01:55:09 -!- advbot has joined. 01:55:16 oerjan: ? 01:55:41 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:58 what FreeFull said. sheesh. 01:56:29 Oh. 01:58:20 I know that. But what does it actually do? 01:59:22 Wait, when did it join? 01:59:24 Weird... 02:01:05 -!- advbot has joined. 02:01:17 ±admin 02:01:55 Hm. 02:02:50 Weird 02:02:53 ≥hi 02:03:03 It isn't receiving messages... 02:03:44 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:04:50 -!- advbot has joined. 02:04:53 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 02:04:56 ≥test 02:04:56 hppavilion[1]: Message acknowledged 02:04:59 ±admin 02:06:10 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:24 Apparently matrix multiplication is an example of a bilinear map 02:07:35 it better be. 02:07:55 <\oren\> `unicode HOURGLASS 02:07:57 ​⌛ 02:08:03 <\oren\> `unicode HOURGLASS* 02:08:06 `unicode SCYTHE 02:08:09 U+231B HOURGLASS \ UTF-8: e2 8c 9b UTF-16BE: 231b Decimal: ⌛ \ ⌛ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+23F3 HOURGLASS WITH FLOWING SAND \ UTF-8: e2 8f b3 UTF-16BE: 23f3 Decimal: ⏳ \ ⏳ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+29D6 WHITE HOURGLASS \ UTF-8: e2 a7 96 UTF-16BE: 29 02:08:12 No output. 02:08:28 `unicode oren 02:08:28 `unicode DEATH 02:08:35 -!- advbot has joined. 02:08:37 No output. 02:08:37 U+2E9E CJK RADICAL DEATH \ UTF-8: e2 ba 9e UTF-16BE: 2e9e Decimal: ⺞ \ ⺞ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2F4D KANGXI RADICAL DEATH \ UTF-8: e2 bd 8d UTF-16BE: 2f4d Decimal: ⽍ \ ⽍ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Decomposition: 6B79 02:08:42 Radical death 02:08:45 ±admin 02:08:58 Hm, weird... 02:09:06 what happened to #esoteric-blah 02:10:27 FreeFull: very common in china back in the 60s hth 02:10:57 Weird... 02:10:57 <\oren\> OOOH 02:11:11 shachaf: It was working more and I came to demonstrate it; changing the channel back now 02:11:19 \oren\ has an epiphany. we're doomed. 02:11:45 <\oren\> oerjan: nah I just realized my font doesn't cover 02:12:00 <\oren\> ANY of the kangzi radical characters 02:12:11 Oh, the process was terminated without disconnecting... 02:12:13 Whoops... 02:12:19 sho xing 02:12:37 oerjan: unionized radical death, no doubt 02:12:47 <\oren\> oerjan: in pinyin x is sort of a sh sound hth 02:13:11 `quote 02:13:13 `quote 02:13:13 713) I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL 02:13:13 `quote 02:13:14 `quote 02:13:16 795) it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 02:13:17 `quote 02:13:25 -!- advbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:13:29 144) ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic 02:13:29 432) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. 02:13:29 931) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 02:13:59 they're all fine tdnh 02:14:32 Apparently, the process just didn't terminate 02:14:48 \oren\: yes. but not the same sound as sh. 02:14:48 \oren\: Pretty sure 'x' in pinyin is 'zh' in english 02:15:02 (Which isn't helpful because we almost never use 'zh'- but it's voiced 'sh') 02:15:11 <\oren\> so is it confirmed that exo mars has bcome more endo-mars? 02:16:34 The latin transcription of Chinese has always bugged me 02:16:34 <\oren\> `quote 02:16:35 1058) Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? either that or it means "welcome" in finnish 02:16:41 At what time of day are Muslim call of prayer supposed to be? 02:17:09 Chinese uses entirely symbolic writing, with no influence from Rome 02:17:25 hppavilion[1]: i believe x in pinyin is not voiced and neither is sh hth 02:17:53 So why aren't the symbols used in transcription the symbols that MAKE those noises? 02:18:15 Who decided "OK, so when they make the [tʃ] sound, we'll write a 'Q'" 02:18:25 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_times 02:19:14 <\oren\> dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset, midnight 02:20:57 \oren\: But it has to be on UTC hth 02:21:18 So in UTC+3, for example, you do everything 3 hours early. 02:21:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: they were just like "well, we don't need this crappy rounded k sound, so thets use it for a more different ch." 02:22:27 -!- Cale has joined. 02:22:29 -!- augur has joined. 02:23:11 <\oren\> and "we never have a stupid ks consonant cluster, so we can just use x for something else" 02:24:30 Though, Sunnis use UTC1 whereas the more orthodox Shias use UTC0, so prayer times vary due to leap seconds. 02:24:55 http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/phonemes 02:25:01 Latest smbc comic, surprisingly relevant 02:25:38 FreeFull: That's awesome 02:26:46 "WHOIS foo foo" is not the same thing as WHOWAS at all. The WHOIS syntax is "WHOIS [] [,...]" and "WHOIS foo foo" is just a WHOIS command that's sent to a specific server. There is an entirely separate WHOWAS message. (RFC 2812, sections 3.6.2 and 3.6.3.) 02:26:55 * hppavilion[1] wishes that the prayer UTC divide was a real thing 02:27:18 Is there a way to make more Wiki Captchas to test? 02:27:53 The Golden Age of Islam, which is when they discovered a shitton of math and such, was (this is true, not a joke) driven by them trying to figure out what goddamn direction it is to Mecca 02:28:19 (The optional part is also a server; clients just turn "/whois foo foo" into "WHOIS foo", because sending the WHOIS to the server foo is directly connected to returns more information.) 02:29:18 One can only imagine a man in a turban in the desert with a camel getting a stick and scrawling non-euclidean geometry, vector calculus, and a proof that P ⊃ NP 02:29:21 Yes, and in my opinion that is a silly way to continue such tradition. If the tradition doesn't work you can ignore it 02:30:07 It is good to figure out various math, but that reason doesn't make much sense 02:30:30 hppavilion[1]: chinese has two parallel series of sh-like sounds. one of the series is written as sh, zh, ch. the other has to use some other representation, and they happened to choose x, j, q. not sure if i remembered the order right. 02:30:32 Especially in space, where apparently people have come up with two different systems to do 02:30:36 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:31:02 -!- diginet has joined. 02:31:05 (also i just discovered i've somehow got their pronunciation difference about backwards.) 02:31:18 oerjan: ch is a consonant cluster hth 02:31:51 -!- scoofy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:31:51 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:31:52 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:32:14 hppavilion[1]: And it ended when they figured it out? 02:32:24 FreeFull: Presumably 02:32:28 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:32:29 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:32:29 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:32:40 I'm waiting for someone to comment on the last part of his frustrated scrawling 02:32:54 "Ok guys, the algebra says Mecca is this way" 02:32:55 -!- nortti has joined. 02:33:06 -!- scoofy_ has joined. 02:33:08 FreeFull: "Um, I think that's a bialgebra" 02:33:20 The word "algebra" does come from Arabic 02:33:21 -!- quintopia has joined. 02:33:31 * Somebody tries to find Gebra to ask him 02:33:44 The word "alcohol" does too, and Muslims aren't meant to drink it.. 02:33:45 zzo38: I think it's a name 02:33:52 -!- int-e has joined. 02:33:52 -!- olsner has joined. 02:33:56 FreeFull: I don't think alcohol is arabic... 02:34:10 (the word, not the class of chemicals) 02:34:38 I'm pretty sure it's greek, though they may be related I suppose... 02:35:53 I don't know what would "alcohol" be, but I think "algebra" is Arabic. 02:36:02 hppavilion[1]: It comes from Arabic 02:36:32 Although it got mutated along the way 02:36:43 Came in via alchemy 02:37:09 Wiktionary says from Arabic 02:38:05 Ah 02:38:05 FreeFull: Wait, but what about "chem" 02:38:05 As in "chemical" 02:38:22 Or did the greeks get the word, then decide it HAS to be greeky and inflecty? 02:38:32 zzo38: Algebra definitely is, and I'm pretty sure it comes from the authorship being "Al Gebra" and the transcriber mistaking that for (or thinking it sounded better than) the name given 02:39:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LLAMA CHICKEN). 02:39:05 hppavilion[1]: In the word "alchemy", the "al" part came from Arabic, and the "chemy" ultimately from Greek 02:39:39 Oh? 02:40:18 FreeFull: So... did the 'chem' go from greek to arabic, Arabic created 'al chemy', and the greeks adopted 'alchemy' and used it to make 'alcohol'? 02:40:35 zzo38: the muslims sometimes _do_ adjust tradition, but only as much as necessary. e.g. not to starve when ramadan falls in norwegian midsummer. 02:41:41 hppavilion[1]: greek -> arabic -> medieval latin -> old french 02:42:09 hppavilion[1]: That "Gebra" thing is not true."-- from Arabic al jabr ("in vulgar pronunciation, al-jebr" [Klein]) "reunion of broken parts," as in computation, used 9c. by Baghdad mathematician Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi as the title of his famous treatise on equations ("Kitab al-Jabr w'al-Muqabala" "Rules of Reintegration and Reduction") --" 02:42:25 hppavilion[1]: 'alcohol' was initially an alchemical term, before it became more widespread 02:42:28 (With this formula, I can turn the phoneme cluster [ɛmiː] into [oʊhɑːɫ]!) 02:42:35 Oh 02:42:40 oerjan: Yes, OK. It may also depend on denomination too I suppose; it also happens with Christian denominations and Jewish and Pagan and Wiccan denominations and so on as well though 02:43:05 (This may be the reason for UTC1 vs UTC0) 02:43:07 zzo38: What if my denomination is dollar bills? 02:43:43 FreeFull: So we were only a small change away from being taught Walmukob in schools? 02:44:08 shachaf: If they are US dollar bills (we don't use dollar bills in Canada) then it is done by the US laws for money I suppose 02:44:10 zzo38: ...you realize that was a joke, right? 02:44:27 Yes, but I wanted to answer anyways 02:44:28 I'm pretty sure the Sunnis and the Shias don't debate over what time standard to use 02:44:30 Oh 02:44:33 OK, good 02:44:57 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:45:05 hppavilion[1]: No, but the start of a month is variable from Arab country to Arab country. 02:45:11 zzo38: what, only dollar coins? that's a bit loonie hth 02:45:39 shachaf: Yes it is, and that is how it is supposed to be 02:46:07 Coins are inconvenient. You should use only bills. 02:46:18 And also they should all be exactly the same size and color. 02:46:42 Bills are inconvenient. You should only use bitcoins. 02:46:48 Easter also may be different based on the Catholic or Orthodox they do it differently 02:46:51 But for convenience everyone should use the same wallet. 02:47:09 it seems zzo38 has a similar reaction to jokes as me (to take them seriously in the hope of making the conversation more absurd) 02:47:30 ais523: Are you sure that's zzo38's motivation? 02:47:45 shachaf: maybe not the motivation, but the reaction is similar even if the motivation is different 02:47:52 zzo38: The humorous thing is, it's not quite the same as that. The months are different in each Arab country because a month only starts when a full moon is observed. In that country. At the official observatory for that country. 02:47:57 shachaf: I prefer to use coins, and in Canadian also to have bills of different colours so that you can easily to know the difference 02:48:07 zzo38: Not if you're blind. 02:48:13 If a cloud's in the way, it never gets observed so the month doesn't start. 02:48:14 oerjan: Now that you mention it, I wonder when anchorage's large muslim community eats in the summer... 02:48:18 (during ramadan) 02:48:26 Do you like string diagrams? 02:48:27 (We have the same 24-hour sunlight) 02:48:35 pikhq: Yes, and coins help better with blind 02:49:00 But shouldn't we have ephemerides by these days? 02:49:23 zzo38: *Some* Arab countries use those instead, yes. 02:49:29 zzo38: How much are the small blind and big blind in Canadian poker? 02:49:35 ais523: I myself am not so sure. 02:49:47 (of my motivation) 02:49:49 hppavilion[1]: btw unless you were _completely_ joking, you may be confusing algebra with algorithm. take another look at fizzie's explanation above... 02:50:18 shachaf: I don't know of any game called "Canadian poker". 02:50:22 oerjan: Oh! Right, it's that one, isn't it 02:50:33 hppavilion[1]: Looked it up, Holy crap, some crazy people actually fast from sunrise to sunset up there. 02:50:42 Even so they will probably vary like with other poker games 02:50:44 pikhq: Wow. 02:50:52 pikhq: Well, they did. 02:50:55 Now they're dead. 02:51:18 (Does IV count as fasting? What about at the hospital?) 02:51:28 (What happens to muslims who are in comas?) 02:51:35 hppavilion[1]: you can break fast if you're ill hth 02:51:43 oerjan: Oh. good hth. 02:51:48 Does optimizing a computer program count as fasting it? 02:51:50 it's one of the official exceptions. 02:51:55 (there are several.) 02:52:02 oerjan: Does that include if the muslim is rad (as in, "totally sick")? 02:52:15 hppavilion[1]: i think being rad may be haram hth 02:52:19 oerjan: Oh 02:52:38 Note that "sunrise" and "sunset" are timed based on being able to see the sun itself, not on seeing sunlight. And in Anchorage you don't ever get an actual lack of sunset. 02:52:44 oerjan: Can some of your virgins be revoked in extenuating circumstances? 02:52:57 Instead, you get sunlight 24 hour but the sun is below the horizon for part of the day. 02:53:03 pikhq: True, but it's hard to tell 02:53:32 What Muslim scholars suggest is, if following local time for Ramadan is impractical, use the time in Mecca. 02:53:48 Ooooh, that's actually pretty clever 02:54:04 Isn't that kind of like cheating? 02:54:23 `? this sentence 02:54:29 This sentence is just. Taneb invented it. 02:54:44 zzo38: I think there were some fairly famous statements about how if the rules are impossible to follow, you can substitute something similar 02:54:44 Do you "invent" sentences? 02:54:55 "wash yourself with sand" to someone complaining about the lack of water to wash with 02:54:58 I think you sentence people to things, but what do you do when you create the sentence itself? 02:55:17 pikhq: s/full moon/new moon/ way above, i think 02:55:45 shachaf: No, you assemble them hth 02:55:48 zzo38: Considering the alternative would probably mean nobody following Ramadan (per the fact that medical conditions are permitted exemptions)... not really? 02:55:57 (Sentences are like lego constructions) 02:56:00 I think you assemble contraptions. 02:56:06 shachaf: lol, your sentences were always there, you're just discovering them 02:56:18 Somebody may have done it before, perhaps several times, but you did it independently. 02:56:19 hi Cale 02:56:21 hi 02:56:23 What do you think of string diagrams? 02:56:37 sentences are crafted, I think 02:56:38 rather than invented 02:56:48 ais523: I'm talking about a judicial sentence. 02:56:50 pikhq: O, OK, I suppose it is better than nothing anyways. People should be allowed to follow their own religion themself, although it does help to have traditions and philosophy and so on and you can learn better from these things together with your own ideas 02:56:51 I like them, though I don't know how useful they are in very complicated situation. 02:56:51 s 02:56:53 Cale: But you can (theoretically) write a program that will iterate over all english sentences 02:57:11 shachaf: those are chosen, because there's typically only a small finite number of possibilities 02:57:15 ais523: No, crafting has to be uniform and rigid, something a machine can do without 10 years of AI research 02:57:16 Cale: Are there places where geometric intuition can go wrong? 02:57:20 hppavilion[1]: like "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." 02:57:23 ais523: "This sentence is just. Taneb chose it."? 02:57:38 It would be a little amusing if the way that settled is everyone fasted until it ceased to be healthy to do so, though. 02:57:40 shachaf: well Taneb inventing things is a #esoteric meme 02:57:41 ais523: I still think you assemble sentences 02:57:47 he can invent things that can't logically be invented 02:57:55 `? tanebventions: math 02:57:56 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 02:58:03 Which would be not very long, as the fast includes liquids. 02:58:06 `? lambek's lemma 02:58:07 Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. 02:58:13 boring 02:58:42 One thing to do is to try to figure out the intention, I think. And then, see if it is good or not to you. 02:58:51 The components already existed, the rules to determine if it's allowed are set in stone (well, it's talc), and it may have been used before; you just put together the parts that make that particular sentence 02:58:56 shachaf: I don't know about going wrong... but they're not terribly compact, and you end up wanting to express that one diagram is equal to another, which can be awkward if you have to do it a lot. 02:59:00 Blind faith is no good. 02:59:14 shachaf: But for like, examining how the basic laws look and stuff, it's really nice. 02:59:28 shachaf: You can't invent a sentence, but somebody did invent sentences in general, though likely accidentally hth 02:59:46 (The invention was changed over time to adjust the scope of permitted sentences) 02:59:52 (Whether you are Muslim, Chrisian, or atheist, either way is what I meant by my points made) 03:00:04 zzo38: Ah 03:00:14 Oh! It's a judicial sentence, I see 03:00:29 Did Taneb invent the very notion of inventing things? 03:00:34 "This [judicial] sentence is just[ified]" 03:00:41 `? tanebvention 03:00:42 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 03:00:43 shachaf: You administer sentences 03:01:00 Cale: No hth 03:01:15 Hmm, that entry used to say that Taneb invented Tanebventions. But not anymore. 03:01:30 Does the judge administer a sentence, or do people do that after the judge's sentencing? 03:01:34 shachaf: Problem: Taneb never invents anything involving sex, but humans can make ANYTHING sexual. 03:01:43 not true 03:01:55 shachaf: he invented the sentence that describes Tanebventions 03:01:55 It's Greenspun's Third Theological Problem (regarding hell) 03:02:22 ais523: No, he invented a sentence iterating over a finite subset of tanebventions. That's different 03:02:23 ais523: Are you sure "this sentence" doesn't refer to the wisdom entry "this sentence"? 03:02:30 `? this sentence 03:02:31 This sentence is just. Taneb invented it. 03:02:39 Ah, right 03:02:42 How much you know of theological problems anyways? 03:02:53 zzo38: I know Greenspun's Third theological problems 03:03:03 shachaf: I'm not 100% sure the entry actually refers to anything, given that it's mostly a joke entry 03:03:35 Do you know Greenspun's other theological problem? 03:04:03 And also the problem of evil (omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient -> ~evil anywhere), the problem of moving goalposts (god keeps getting farther away), and the obvious issue with God of the Gaps 03:04:41 isn't Greenspun famous for not using contiguous numbers for things like laws? 03:05:02 Change-of-basis matrices have nonzero determinant. Taneb inverted them. 03:05:11 zzo38: Greenspun's Third Theological Problem is like Greenspun's Tenth Rule 03:05:25 hppavilion[1]: my favourite description of the (fictional, probably) Computer from Paranoia is "it's omnipotent, but doesn't realise it; and it's not omniscient, but believes it is" 03:05:29 Except it wasn't even invented by Greenspun, I just made it up right now. 03:06:05 this is a pretty fun combintion of properties to have for a character in a fictional universe 03:06:09 Yes, and I have other ideas about those things anyways. Such as, God doesn't keep getting farther away it is just our point of view to do so (although this statement also oversimplifies it a bit perhaps). 03:06:15 and AFAICT doesn't contain any internal inconsistencies 03:07:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:50 OK, where does WHOIS's output come out protocol-wise? 03:13:51 Ah, I think I see... 03:31:29 are there any number-base-agnostic programming languages? 03:31:40 s/programming/estoeric 03:31:51 s/estoeric/esoteric 03:32:12 imode: does Radixal!!!! count? 03:32:24 dunno, I'll check. 03:32:28 I mean, there are plenty of languages that don't decompose numbers into digits at all, but I assume that's not what you meant 03:32:53 There are plenty of languages that don't have numbers. 03:32:56 Does that count? 03:33:03 brainfuck for example is like... kind of unary. 03:33:30 C has a way of specifying hexadecimal or decimal literals. 03:40:36 `` echo fibonacci | sed -e's/.*/. ./;x;s/.*/./p;x;:l' -e's/\(.*\) \(.*\)/\2 \1\2/;h;s/ .*//p;x;bl' | head -7 03:40:37 ​. \ . \ .. \ ... \ ..... \ ........ \ ............. 03:40:55 does that count as a language without numbers? 03:40:57 sed never fails to amaze me. 03:41:07 it's TC 03:41:12 I'm aware. 03:41:13 I wrote an interpreter for a TC language in it, I forget which offhand 03:41:21 * imode used to play sokoban in sed. 03:41:22 i wrote a bf interpreter in sed 03:41:33 * izalove is boring 03:41:43 * izalove only does bf stuff 03:42:20 bf is fun. 03:45:48 `` echo pow2 | sed -e's/.*/./;:a' -e'p;s/.*/&&/;ba' | head -7 03:45:49 ​. \ .. \ .... \ ........ \ ................ \ ................................ \ ................................................................ 03:50:45 -!- ratpuke has joined. 03:51:31 Oerjan is my dad 03:53:22 `welcome ratpuke 03:53:26 ratpuke: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 03:53:30 Thanks 03:54:34 I Have No Son HTH 03:55:23 Boi 03:55:35 You're old enough to have a daughter 03:57:42 that is true but i don't and it doesn't fit the meme hth 03:58:03 (technically i'm also old enough to have a granddaughter) 03:58:12 Used to be a programmer am now a doctor nurse practitioner 03:58:22 wait, great granddaugher. 03:58:26 I miss programming uwu 03:58:38 (the last one would require some creepiness) 03:58:56 Oerjan you are 45 - 48 ??? 03:59:00 yep 03:59:20 Good I remembered correctly 04:00:01 So how are you œrjan 04:00:35 oerjan is old enough to be his own grandpa 04:00:44 which he is, incidentally 04:01:27 i'm not my own grandpa. 04:02:04 my uncle is, however, iirc. 04:02:12 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:15 your uncle is your own grandpa? 04:02:22 no, his own hth 04:02:44 Jeeze 04:02:46 unless i messed this up 04:02:47 what does it mean to be someone's hth 04:02:54 Atleast shachaf isn't dead 04:03:02 who is ratpuke? 04:03:09 i may be dead. you are all illusions. 04:03:14 Old attendee 04:03:30 shachaf: i don't remember. 04:03:33 I changed my name and my house since I left 04:03:50 but you did not improve your manners? 04:04:26 changed your manor to another manor 04:04:37 Its hard to keep manners at my house seeing as I have to super professional at the clinic 04:05:03 To be* 04:06:02 Let me be your doctor shachaf 04:06:12 I don't know who you are. 04:06:20 Did I know you by another name? 04:06:22 -!- Cale has joined. 04:06:24 Actually no that's a conflict of interest scratch that forget I said that 04:06:51 I forgot what name I came on here with last hence the new account let me remember in a bit 04:07:37 Oerjan lest you wake up to find you were only ever a dream 04:08:00 To the I may be dead you are all illusions 04:08:35 -!- Cale has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 04:12:43 `? cut elimination 04:12:44 The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator. 04:13:45 `cwlprits cut elimination 04:13:47 fizzïe evilips̈e shachäf 04:15:05 `` ls /bin 04:15:06 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ 04:15:09 * oerjan wonders if that's somehow a special case of the real CET 04:15:20 -!- ratpuke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:15:21 `` echo > /bin/chgrp 04:15:22 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/chgrp: Read-only file system 04:15:42 `` ls / 04:15:43 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 04:15:46 breatharians vs flat earthers 04:15:50 pick your favorite 04:16:27 `mount 04:16:28 none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host 04:16:37 `` mount | grep rw 04:16:38 none on /hackenv type hostfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/) \ tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime) \ proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) \ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) 04:16:38 <\oren\> flat earthers do less damage to their children. therefore they are my favorit 04:17:44 that's debatable 04:18:45 `` ls -ld .hg 04:18:46 drwxr-xr-x 4 5000 5000 4096 Oct 23 21:01 .hg 04:18:52 `` touch .hg/abc 04:18:53 touch: cannot touch `.hg/abc': Read-only file system 04:19:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:20:14 -!- Cale has joined. 04:23:21 Should [θ] and [ð] be called the "Voic(ed/less) INTERdental fricative" rather than the "Voic(ed/less) dental fricative"? 04:23:52 <\oren\> YAY! the next version of my font will have a complete DINGBATS block 04:24:20 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2700 0x27ff 04:24:20 ​✀✁✂✃✄✅✆✇✈✉✊✋✌✍✎✏ \ ✐✑✒✓✔✕✖✗✘✙✚✛✜✝✞✟ \ ✠✡✢✣✤✥✦✧✨✩✪✫✬✭✮✯ \ ✰✱✲✳✴✵✶✷✸✹✺✻✼✽✾✿ \ ❀❁❂❃❄❅❆❇❈❉❊❋❌❍❎❏ \ ❐❑❒❓❔❕❖❗❘❙❚❛❜❝❞❟ \ ❠❡❢❣❤❥❦❧❨❩❪❫❬ 04:25:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: correct, typically those symbols are used for the interdentals 04:27:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:28:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:32:39 The voiceless glottal fricative (IPA [h], english ) is often used to modify consonants into... whatever 04:33:04 sh, zh, th, dh 04:34:27 <\oren\> yeah, I think we should use capital letters for that 04:34:36 \oren\: Why? 04:34:43 \oren\: For stress? 04:34:45 Note that if the leading symbol is the voiced version of another symbol that exists in this combination (e.g. z/s, d/t), you voice the combination (zh is voiced sh, dh is voiced th) 04:35:26 <\oren\> becuase 'Du' is better than 'the 04:35:41 Some languages, however, have a voiced glottal fricative (IPA [ɦ], let's say that if we used it in english it'd also be [ɦ]) 04:35:53 \oren\: Wait, what? 04:35:53 * hppavilion[1] is confused 04:36:03 <\oren\> u is like in "but" 04:36:07 \oren\: OK... 04:36:18 <\oren\> so 'the' is 'Du' 04:36:55 \oren\: Are we saying that capital letters and miniuscule letters will be different? Like in X-SAMPA? 04:38:02 <\oren\> yeah. /ðʌ/ is "modified d, short u" so 'Du' 04:38:46 \oren\: Oh, are you suggesting we use something similar to X-SAMPA for IRC? 04:39:18 <\oren\> yeah 04:39:28 (Also, ch is [tS], but we'll treat it as distinct and say the voiced version- gh- is [dZ] aka /j/) 04:39:41 (gh, henceforth, does not make [f], because that's stupid.) 04:39:46 <\oren\> ch is C 04:40:05 <\oren\> I had u Cat wiT yU 04:40:59 \oren\: No, ch is tS 04:41:09 <\oren\> gh would be more like the french r 04:41:26 \oren\: Can we make [j] like in pretty much every other language? 04:41:27 <\oren\> you know, you pronounce a french r by choking on snails 04:41:33 \oren\: No, gh is [dZ] 04:42:21 kh makes [x], qh (now, q:k::g:c) is [ɣ] which we write [G] apparently 04:42:38 (i'da gone with [Y], but it was presumably taken) 04:42:52 <\oren\> Y is a vowel 04:42:58 \oren\: Fine 04:43:14 \oren\: But what about in "yU"? 04:43:37 <\oren\> y glide followed by 'long U' 04:43:40 I'm completely off track 04:44:22 \oren\: But y is a vowel you said 04:44:55 <\oren\> Y is. y is a vowel glide 04:45:06 Oh 04:45:45 We have sh (aka S), zh (aka Z), th (aka T) with rare variant dh (aka D), ch (aka tS aka C), gh (aka dZ aka old english j), kh (aka K), and qh (aka Q) 04:46:02 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/speliG.htm heres my spelig reform proposal 04:46:17 Let's restrict to sh, zh, th, dh, and ch temporarily 04:46:30 <\oren\> but I take it this would be a system not only for english 04:46:56 https://i.imgur.com/JRnSQFI.jpg this is so cool 04:47:18 What sounds are sɦ, tɦ, zɦ, dɦ, and cɦ? 04:47:27 (ɦ is its own letter now) 04:49:28 <\oren\> you know, you pronounce a french r by choking on snails <-- actually, almost any mollusc will do hth 04:49:39 Question: If I want to write capital ɦ, what unicode do I use? 04:49:48 `unidecode ɦ 04:49:49 ​[U+0266 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH HOOK] 04:51:40 `uniencode U+0286 04:51:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found 04:52:22 ʆ, apparently 04:52:23 How that's an ezh I'm unclear 04:54:35 Hm, how DOES one initialize a name with a digraph? 04:55:24 Also, is there a name for the process that gave us [s] -> [S], [t] -> [T], [z] -> [D], and [d] -> [D]? 04:57:13 `? subtle 04:57:14 subtle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:57:21 `? segmentation 04:57:21 segmentation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:57:36 `? segmentation fault 04:57:37 The Segmentation Fault is just of the Silicon Valley and is known to produce various hiccups at the most inconvienent times. 04:57:39 `le/rn subtle/The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear 04:57:41 Learned 'subtle': The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear 04:58:02 `slwd subtle//s/$/.$/ 04:58:04 wisdom/subtle//The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear.$ 04:58:09 ...creap 04:58:13 *crap 04:58:29 `slwd subtle//s/\$// 04:58:31 wisdom/subtle//The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear. 04:59:34 it's certainly not supertle 05:07:16 OK, really, what is the rule that transforms _ into _h? 05:08:04 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it all started with latin 05:08:52 \oren\: o rly? 05:09:05 <\oren\> when romans imported greek words that had aspirated c (/k/), aspirated r, and aspirated p 05:09:14 <\oren\> they spelled them with an h 05:09:46 <\oren\> like phi, chi, rho, and theta 05:10:10 <\oren\> these were originally pronounced with simple aspiration 05:10:24 <\oren\> but over time the language changed 05:11:04 <\oren\> and now those sounds are not simply aspirated versions anymore 05:11:21 \oren\: I want to generalize the process though 05:11:28 I want to make an 'nh' sound to horrify people 05:11:51 <\oren\> in latin that would probably have been a devoiced n 05:12:24 <\oren\> whereas in gaelic it would maybe be a alveolar appriximant? 05:13:04 I also want mg... 05:13:21 <\oren\> most languages have pretty ad-hoc spellig systems 05:15:38 \oren\: Yes, and I want to make it uniform and non-ad-hoc, but in the opposite direction 05:15:58 (Rather than by changing the spelling, by changing the sounds) 05:16:38 There's no reason for spelling to correspond to sound. 05:16:46 Different dialects pronounce words different ways. 05:16:58 Maybe is the intradental nasal... 05:17:03 s/intra/inter/ 05:20:00 <\oren\> shachaf: right like your dialect pronounces 'ch' as /x/? 05:20:49 My dialect doesn't assign a single pronunciation to "ch". 05:20:55 And nor does any other dialect I know how. 05:20:57 Which is wrong, because [x] should clearly be written 05:20:57 know of 05:21:07 Wrath of Khan 05:22:13 Anyway, the "ch" in my name is IPA χ, not x. 05:22:49 <\oren\> shachaf: my dialect pronounces 'ch' as either /tſ/ or /k/ in all cases I know of 05:24:04 What about "loch"? 05:25:09 <\oren\> pronounced identiacl to lock by most people 05:25:22 <\oren\> or as lotch 05:25:24 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:25:33 "Bach"? 05:25:59 <\oren\> that's not even remotely an english word 05:26:23 \oren\: Your dialect is wrong hth 05:26:38 (So is mine, to be fair, but I'm working on it, OK?) 05:26:46 "chutzpah"? 05:27:22 "machine"? 05:27:56 <\oren\> "chutzpah" <-- yeah, I defiantly don't consider THAT an english owrd 05:28:11 Really? 05:28:18 <\oren\> machine is a good point though. 05:28:31 It has a different meaning in English than in Hebrew (and Yiddish, as far as I know). 05:29:10 <\oren\> but seriously most english speakers can't pronounce /x/ and approximate it with /k/ 05:29:11 -!- godel has joined. 05:29:35 "chanukah"? 05:29:40 <\oren\> or h 05:29:50 <\oren\> shachaf: itym hanukkah 05:30:05 itidn 05:30:14 \oren\: iaw \oren\. ydm hanukkah 05:30:17 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah 05:30:58 The string "Chanukah" is right on that page. 05:31:06 What should the hypothetical letter making [x] be called? 05:31:27 <\oren\> Bach for example I have heard many people pronounce as bak 05:31:33 hippothetical 05:31:48 [ɛx], probably? 05:32:04 (written ×, of course) 05:33:48 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Consonants <-- chart does not contain /x/ 05:34:05 Are you some sort of prescriptivists? 05:34:50 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:35:02 s/s\b// 05:35:19 Also, it does. 05:35:33 <\oren\> no, just pointing out it's a marginal sound only used by people familiar with it though knowledge of foriegn phonology 05:35:44 It's right to the left of h 05:36:54 <\oren\> shachaf: are you really looking at the same chart? 05:38:04 shachaf: No, you're just wrong 05:38:18 Oh, no, I was looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology#Consonants 05:38:31 Which is what I got by searching for "consonants" on that page and clicking the link. 05:39:09 <\oren\> https://s16.postimg.org/h4i3117ut/phonemes.png 05:39:25 Like, it's not prescriptivism to say someone is englishing wrong when they say "I have one dogs" 05:39:37 Yes it is? 05:39:47 shachaf: No, I'm pretty sure it's not 05:39:58 <\oren\> The voiceless velar fricative /x/ is mainly used in Scottish and Hiberno-English; words with /x/ in Scottish accents tend to be pronounced with /k/ in other dialects. The velar fricative sometimes appears in recent loanwords such as chutzpah. Many speakers of White South African English realize /x/ as uvular [χ].[4] 05:40:08 I mean, it's at least not 1 sigma above the standard prescriptivism levels. 05:40:28 (Really, it's below) 05:42:18 If someone speaks that way, it's not wrong. 05:43:12 Or, rather: If someone speaks that way, it's prescriptivism to tell them that they're wrong. 05:43:14 <\oren\> shachaf: but it is a low-status dialect 05:43:35 See e.g. https://web.stanford.edu/~zwicky/aave-is-not-se-with-mistakes.pdf 05:50:58 shachaf: AAVE is different 05:51:21 * hppavilion[1] immediately realizes shachaf's dialect could be AAVE 05:51:29 I just made a little program to correctly identify whether to use 'a' or 'an', but it's hacky 05:52:13 (In a string that is being randomly generated) 05:52:15 Certainly it's different. 05:53:39 I use 'a/n' (capitalized 'A/n') any time it's ambiguous. I have a master list of vowels, and I replace any occurrence of 'a/n' (or 'A/n') followed by a vowel or its upper case with an 05:55:32 For words that start with a consonant orthographically but a vowel in theory, an additional pseudo-vowel ^ is used where 'a/n ^' (or 'A/n ^') becomes 'an ' (or 'An ') 05:56:26 s%in theory%out loud, like 'hour'% 05:56:52 And for words that start with a vowel orthographically but not in speech (not sure if any exist though), the opposite ! is used which is the same but with 'a' or 'A' instead of 'an' or 'An' 05:56:53 s#%#℅#g 05:58:06 Then any remaining ^s are stripped, any remaining !s, and all remaining 'a/n's become 'a' and 'A/n's 'A' 05:58:11 Clunky, but it works 06:01:58 hppavilion[1]: "use" hth 06:02:11 oerjan: Ah, thank you 06:03:41 <\oren\> a nother 06:04:16 <\oren\> a whole nother problem 06:11:13 -!- godel has joined. 06:19:45 `unicode ℅ 06:19:48 U+2105 CARE OF \ UTF-8: e2 84 85 UTF-16BE: 2105 Decimal: ℅ \ ℅ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Decomposition: 0063 002F 006F 06:20:00 huh. 06:20:34 lifthrasiir: it's a really common typo on Android 06:20:50 because it's right next to % on the mobile keyboard 06:20:50 ais523: really? can it be typed normally? 06:20:54 oh lol 06:21:01 * lifthrasiir has never seen that symbol 06:21:08 and they look really similar so inattentive people frequently pick the wrong one 06:21:18 no idea why Android placed in on their default keyboard, but they did… 06:21:24 *it 06:21:32 also I was aware of it beforehand 06:21:51 it's used in addresses, when you send a piece of (physical) mail to one person, but it's intended for another person 06:21:52 so it is used for postal routing, TIL 06:22:22 e.g. if you're sending mail to someone who's on holiday, you can send mail to the guest ℅ the host, followed by the host's address 06:22:24 frankly speaking I never seen like that, I think I've seen (for example) ⅊ several times 06:22:35 actually it's quite similar to a bang path from very early email 06:22:42 "send the mail to this person, who will deliver it to that person" 06:22:49 yeah, that's what I reminded of 06:23:20 I've received mail routed like that in the past, but I can't remember why 06:24:17 quite why this would be useful on a mobile phone, I don't know, given that smartphones were invented well after postal mail mostly died out 06:24:37 ais523: in my country I have never seen such a thing probably because the recipient is probably not considered for the routing 06:25:10 only the address is significant to mail carriers 06:25:30 the name of the recipient is normally only relevant over here for resolving typos 06:25:56 if someone typos the house number then you can sometimes figure out where to deliver the letter from the recipient's name 06:26:07 especially in rural areas where everyone knows who lives where 06:26:20 that's a good point 06:26:44 I've seen this sort of thing happen in practice more than once 06:27:13 (modern) Korean addresses are relatively better standardized so such thing might not have been required 06:27:52 in the UK we have, or should have, two unique identifiers on each address: {house number, postcode} and {house number, address} 06:28:25 wait, no postcode required? 06:28:27 most of the time when you tell someone your address in person at a store or the like, they use one to input the value and the other as verification 06:28:50 the postcode isn't technically required but the post office will yell at you for not using it 06:28:56 they have little rubber stamps that say "please use the postcode" 06:28:58 they deliver it anyway though 06:29:06 that's generous :p 06:31:14 The US doesn't have said rubber stamps at all, but they will deliver without a ZIP code. 06:31:41 your zip codes are way more ambiguous than our postcodes, though 06:31:48 one postcode narrows things down to around ten houses 06:32:06 Yeah, the ZIP code typically narrows down to a post office. 06:32:08 and things are typically arranged so that they all have different numbers (typically they're all adjacent on the same road) 06:32:36 Except for a ZIP+4, which is substantially more specific. 06:32:43 but then, a postcode is {one or two letters}, {small integer}, digit, letter, letter 06:33:06 But it's generally only businesses with an automated system in place that will use a ZIP+4. 06:33:14 which is a pretty well-designed format because it can't run out (the "small integer"s value is "as small as necessary" but it can get quite large when the numbers would otherwise run out) 06:33:56 (A ZIP+4 will refine down to a city block, apartment complex, or an individual high-volume receiver of mail) 06:34:19 incidentally, the small integer in question is also placed on the street name road signs that exist on pretty much every street corner 06:34:34 in order to help you figure out where you are if you're lost and on a road with a commonly used name (e.g. "Church Road") 06:34:56 the assumption is that you know which town or city you're in, but not necessarily where you are within that town or city 06:35:12 Oh, yeah. *Part* of why nobody cares that much at the post office is we've got automated machines that read in an address and spray on the matching ZIP+4 and delivery point as a barcode. 06:35:13 and the "postcode areas" in question are shown on maps 06:35:42 I guess that's all mostly obsolete in the days of GPS, though 06:36:56 Also, the USPS has this weird thing that they will deliver mail anywhere where they can figure out WTF you *meant*. Weird pride thing, I think. 06:37:12 the Royal Mail is like that too 06:37:50 You've got pretty good odds of getting mail routed properly just by scrawling "Google" on an envelope and mailing it. 06:38:14 Granted, it'll probably take longer. 06:38:58 the market forces on mail over here are also somewhat weird 06:38:58 I have read they mailed various stuff to Robert Ripley even though strange addressing, but then eventually posted a notice saying they would no longer deliver it if it was addressed incorrectly. 06:39:10 as a result of email outcompeting it 06:39:28 we used to have two standards of mail delivery, first class which was next-day if posted before a certain time 06:39:38 and second-class which was a bit slower, typically a few days 06:39:52 anyway, second class was originally much cheaper, so people used it for most things 06:40:11 but nowadays second class is not only substantially slower than it used to be, but also it's only marginally cheaper than first class 06:40:28 meaning it's basically only ever used for junk mail 06:41:09 First-class mail here is any postcard, letter, large envelope, or package 13 oz or smaller. 06:41:35 i.e. you don't even really have the option of using second class for your letter. 06:42:21 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Are there any languages where [m] and [n] are allophones ) 06:42:47 Course, first-class mail here also doesn't have an attempt to be next-day. 06:43:10 I wonder if I could say that anything defined within [ and ] is always an anonymous, recursive function that's always evaluated when encountered.. 06:43:24 yeah, that's a fancy way of saying a while loop. 06:43:25 I believe the UK still has the next-day thing going but has relaxed the timings within the day 06:43:36 hppavilion[1]: Japanese? 06:43:38 i.e. you have to post early morning and it might arrive late afternoon the day after 06:44:20 pikhq: first-class mail is mail that you can send within another letter or embed it into text 06:44:24 ? 06:44:39 imode: it's not necessarily a while loop; it's more of a forever loop, but I don't see any reason it necessarily even has to be tail-recursive 06:44:39 Understandbly: first-class mail is required by law to be the same cost for *any address served by the USPS*, so for them to make that would imply a fairly expensive bit of postage. 06:44:46 it's more of a ({})%-1 06:45:08 ais523: in my language, [ and ] is just while(1){} 06:45:20 pikhq: because the US is so large and there's no restriction on which states you can send it to? 06:45:25 ais523: Bingo. 06:45:35 imode: I'm taking the definition of "anonymous recursive function that's always evaluated when encountered" 06:45:49 If you did it within, say, a 100 mile radius it'd probably be pretty reasonable. 06:45:50 hitting the timing restrictions in the UK used to be fairly hard 06:45:58 they had dedicated overnight train services for the longer-distance mail 06:46:07 Within your state would only be reasonable for some states. 06:46:35 probably that's why the timing restrictions were relaxed, come to think of it 06:46:49 More or less the only way to hit such a timing restriction for some states would be airmail. 06:47:47 now I'm wondering how fast those pneumatic tubes that some stores use to transfer cash around can go 06:48:58 You'd probably appreciate the (no longer operating) New York pneumatic tube mail system. 06:49:21 Hrm. Mail there went up to 35 mph. 06:52:17 Unfortunately that doesn't scale to long distances. 06:52:23 @google alameda-weehawken burrito tunnel 06:52:25 http://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm 06:52:25 Title: The Alameda-Weehawken Burrito Tunnel (Idle Words) 06:53:00 hmm… perhaps using the hyperloop for cargo would turn out to be more useful than using it for transporting humans 06:53:03 less danger if it goes wrong, for one thing 06:54:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:54:57 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:56:11 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: m and n are allophones in romaji japanese 06:57:12 \oren\: Only in some locations. 06:57:44 <\oren\> like you can represent ん as n in ほんと or m in せんぱい 06:57:51 "na" and "ma" are different sounds, but the n/m in "senpai" or "sempai" are the same phoneme. 06:57:53 Also, the USPS has this weird thing that they will deliver mail anywhere where they can figure out WTF you *meant*. Weird pride thing, I think. ← Reminds me of http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37233913 06:59:06 FireFly: that seems like a pretty precise way to describe a location 06:59:11 Though, in modified Hepburn they are never allophones. 06:59:58 (but few people actually write formally correct romaji in a single system) 07:00:25 ais523: sure, though very nonstandard 07:01:43 'The picture has prompted readers to share other miraculous postal stories; such as the tale of the Christmas card sent from Germany, which somehow arrived at the right place despite only being addressed to "England".' hmm 07:01:55 that sounds like an impressive feat 07:03:16 http://text-mode.tumblr.com/post/31409503070/russian-postmen-fix-an-error-caused-by-an is a canonical example of such a feat 07:03:46 Oh yeah 07:05:03 It's pretty impressive to be honest 07:06:31 Did they have to look at the message inside the envelope to figure it out? 07:07:49 For the mojibake one? Doubtful. TBH pretty much any Russian Internet user would be familiar with that sort of mojibake. 07:08:00 lifthrasiir: that doesn't seem that difficult, all you need to know is the existence of mojibake 07:08:12 I mean for only being addressed to "England" 07:08:37 it's basically the same as ordinary language except that all the letters have different shapes 07:08:39 Perhaps need some work to map it, but mojibake was pretty serious in Russia. 07:08:45 (The German post office should know to forward it to the English post office, but then the English post office has to figure it out) 07:08:49 ais523: I don't think so, since one also needs to guess the encoding 07:08:51 but it's still just a 1-to-1 translation, and one that can readily be looked up 07:09:01 Courtesy of there being several mutually incompatible encodings for Russian. 07:09:05 lifthrasiir: well yes, but there's a small finite number of possibilities there 07:09:24 I live in Canada. I once posted a piece of black string (with no writing or pictures or whatever) to see if it would get delivered correctly (somehow I thought that it would); it did not get delivered. 07:09:24 it might well be possible that the post office reached for external help 07:09:26 And they can easily be figured out because the wrong encodings will be gibberish. 07:10:15 Mojibake should be easy enough to figure out yes. That is different from writing only "England" or writing no address at all. 07:10:27 zzo38: could you decipher those black strings? 07:10:45 zzo38: The one directed to "England" almost certainly needed opening. 07:10:54 zzo38: did you have someone in mind as the intended recipient? 07:11:05 ais523: Yes; myself 07:11:18 I would anticipate the UK is much like the US in that the post office is legally allowed to open a letter if it's necessary to correctly deliver it. 07:11:24 (But that was when I was young and somehow thought of strange things like that) 07:11:34 pikhq: in this case they probably guessed fast that the first word was "Россия" 07:12:08 oerjan: That'd help. 07:12:36 btw, I tried to decode the icelandic map 07:12:48 purely based on satellite images and the landmarks shown on the map, you can narrow it down to about three farms 07:12:58 and one of them appears to farm crops rather than sheep 07:13:05 And the postman probably knew who was being talked about. 07:13:15 yes 07:15:07 If I worked in the post office in England and received the letter addressed only to "England", I would assume that it was addressed to the post office and open it anyways, and then can see if it is clearly for someone else then it can be forwarded. 07:15:47 (And if I worked in a post office somewhere else, I would have simply forwarded it to England without opening it.) 07:17:06 here's the letter addressed just "England": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-35174646 07:17:27 it was unopened, but believed that it had a more complete address at one point, which fell off en route 07:17:36 and by that point it was already in the correct city 07:18:30 so at that point it boils own to knowing who receives occasional mail from germany, I guess 07:19:27 Is there such thing as 3peg? 07:19:33 yes, they outright said that's how they solved it, by asking everyone in the area if they were expecting mail from germany 07:19:39 (jpeg for voxelular imagery) 07:20:05 hppavilion[1]: h.264 (mp4) 07:20:18 they might not be the three dimensions you were expecting but it still works 07:21:19 ais523: Is it like layering? 07:21:19 heh 07:22:58 Also, what's the vector equivalent of voxelling? 07:26:42 rasterizing? 07:30:03 I have some ideas about making up Magic: the Gathering cards see if you like or what comment of it please. One idea is if a card has "At the beginning of each combat damage step, you gain life equal to the amount of damage marked on ~." 07:30:54 (Maybe it should be a card with first strike also, or with another ability that can temporarily grant itself first strike) 07:32:14 (Since then you can earn life points more than once) 07:32:46 Actually, perhaps don't add first strike (rely on other cards having it), but maybe to put banding 07:33:22 perhaps it should have an ability like "1W: target creature gains first strike until end of turn" 07:33:24 (No, not first strike, maybe last strike!) 07:33:46 ais523: Yes, OK that can help better 07:34:02 that way you can create extra combat damage steps by giving it to another creature you control (while also helping in combat), or give a blocker first strike to get damage marked on it 07:34:03 I like your idea better 07:34:16 Yes, I did realize that when you said 07:40:32 Another idea to make a card: At the beginning of your draw step, put a charge counter on ~. ;; At the beginning of each opponent's draw step, that opponent exiles his hand and then puts the bottom X cards of his library into his hand, where X is twice the number of charge counters on ~. 07:43:09 that's sort of like a cross between midnight oil (in reverse) and forced fruition 07:43:14 what do you think of those cards? 07:44:30 `card-by-name Midnight Oil 07:44:31 No output. 07:44:36 `card-by-name Forced Fruition 07:44:37 Forced Fruition \ 4UU \ Enchantment \ Whenever an opponent casts a spell, that player draws seven cards. \ LRW-R 07:44:42 I guess this thing doesn't have Kaladesh yet 07:45:02 Then you should add Kaladesh 07:45:44 But, I looked on Gatherer so that I can see its working. 07:48:15 Forced Fruition certainly look to be very powerful (although you should probably play some counterspells too); can be even better if combined with Underworld Dreams. 07:49:17 Midnight Oil looks like it can be risky to use, but it may be good in the right circumstances. 07:50:02 `card-by-name Underworld Dreams 07:50:03 Underworld Dreams \ BBB \ Enchantment \ Whenever an opponent draws a card, Underworld Dreams deals 1 damage to him or her. \ LE-U, 8ED-R, 9ED-R, 10E-R, M10-R 07:50:25 hmm, that'd work well with Forced Fruition if the opponents were on low life 07:50:39 above that, though, you'd probably want to win via making them draw from an empty library 07:51:44 Yes, that is generally how you should win by Forced Fruition, but if you are playing black as well as blue then you might want to have both just in case 07:55:39 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:56:30 -!- Cale has joined. 07:57:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:20:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:22:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:43:39 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:43:53 -!- augur has joined. 08:45:35 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:46:06 -!- augur has joined. 08:48:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:00:22 Huh. 09:01:09 Apparently people have picked up on the fact that my company outfits truck exhaust with apiocides. 09:01:24 They're starting to get upset about the bees dying. 09:04:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:06:24 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:11:55 -!- Cale has joined. 09:12:43 No new xkcd 09:12:49 Getting worried 09:14:06 randall is dead! 09:14:09 ogawd! 09:22:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:24:17 ... oh xkcd hasn't updated. 09:27:31 int-e: Worrying, right? 09:27:53 I'm constantly refreshing the news to wait for reports of his death to stream in 09:30:02 hppavilion[1], it sometimes updates quite late 09:58:11 `? nite 09:58:12 nite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:01:34 @messages (I don't think I have any, but why not try) 10:01:35 You don't have any messages 10:07:10 `` dowg oerjan | grep -i nite 10:07:12 No output. 10:07:19 `? oerjan 10:07:20 Your venerated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 10:08:24 octoberlord? 10:12:11 `slwd oerjan//s#st#st knite# 10:12:12 wisdom/oerjan//Your venerated itymologist knite gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 10:12:24 Yes, oerjan is Lord of October. 10:15:46 `tanebventions 10:15:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tanebventions: not found 10:15:52 `? tanebventions 10:15:53 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 10:16:29 `? _46bit 10:16:31 _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. 10:16:43 `? go 10:16:44 Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. 10:17:08 Taneb, possibly the best Tanebventor 10:17:20 `? fueue 10:17:21 fueue? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:19:36 `? sand 10:19:36 Sand is what microprocessors are made of. Taneb invented it. 10:22:30 Taneb: Did you ever play Shade? 10:22:31 http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/shade/ 10:22:37 short game 10:22:47 shachaf, I have not 10:24:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:28:56 Under the standard model... there are 6 types of lepton, 6 types of quark, and 5 bosons 10:29:04 Why not 6 bosons? Why not consistency? 10:36:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_particles#Bosons lists six, with one unconfirmed 10:40:28 shachaf: Oh. That explains it. 10:45:27 -!- iaglium has quit (Quit: Bed Time). 10:53:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:56:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 10:57:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:58:09 -!- augur has joined. 11:02:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:04:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:30:08 `? lynn 11:30:09 lynn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:30:15 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:30:24 Perfect IMO. 11:31:48 -!- Cale has joined. 11:32:31 -!- boily has joined. 11:33:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:46:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:50:14 `wisdom 11:50:15 manometer//A manometer is a device for testing real men by putting them under pressure. 11:58:04 -!- iaglium has joined. 11:58:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:21:41 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:30:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COLLOIDAL CHICKEN). 12:50:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:56:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:00:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:15:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:33:48 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:43:56 -!- fizzie` has joined. 13:45:20 -!- iaglium has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:21 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:22 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:26 -!- paul2520_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:26 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:27 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 13:45:31 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 13:48:59 -!- Cale has joined. 13:49:44 -!- erdic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:50:50 -!- erdic has joined. 13:51:56 -!- paul2520_ has joined. 13:57:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:57:19 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:03:37 -!- otherbot has joined. 14:06:02 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:40:44 if you have an unsorted vector, you can pretend it's a linked list 14:41:11 to remove an element in the middle, move the last element to the middle position 14:41:19 then vect.pop_back() 14:42:49 ok i realize that you're all very smart but this was a nice trick imo <.< 14:45:44 -!- Froox has joined. 14:45:47 -!- ybden has changed nick to ybdett. 14:48:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:48:50 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:26:31 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:26:51 -!- otherbot has joined. 15:31:01 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit). 15:31:15 -!- otherbot has joined. 15:58:23 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:58:45 -!- Cale has joined. 16:07:45 izalove, that is a nice trick! 16:12:36 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x267A 0x267E 16:12:42 ​♺♻♼♽♾ 16:18:01 `olist 1056 16:18:02 olist 1056: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 16:18:04 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x26B9 0x26bf 16:18:05 ​⚹⚺⚻⚼⚽⚾⚿ 16:19:01 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2745 0x274c 16:19:02 ​❅❆❇❈❉❊❋❌ 16:19:31 Strange 16:19:54 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x293e 0x293f 16:19:56 ​⤾⤿ 16:20:37 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2741 0x2743 16:20:38 ​❁❂❃ 16:20:46 <\oren\> b_jonas: what's strange? 16:20:52 I seem to remember a rumour that the colon builtin in the bash-like shells was added in ancient times back when there were no shebang lines, to distinguish sh scripts from csh scripts, so that when csh saw it in the first line of a shell script, it invoked sh or something 16:21:10 or maybe backwards, sh invoked csh if it saw that 16:21:55 but now I did a web search, and http://unix.stackexchange.com/q/31673 indicates that its history is that it was used to mark labels, when the shell had a goto statement (currently only tcsh has that, bash doesn't) 16:22:13 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x27ad 0x27bf 16:22:13 ​➭➮➯ \ ➰➱➲➳➴➵➶➷➸➹➺➻➼➽➾➿ 16:23:20 (the dos cmd and the windows shell also uses a leading colon to make a label you can goto in a batch file) 16:26:40 maybe I should spread the rumour that the colon is for compatibility with the windows shell, so that you can write comments that work in both, since # is an ordinary character for the windows shell and ' doesn't work as a comment char in the unix shell 16:28:31 <\oren\> ♺♻♼♽♾⚹⚺⚻⚼⚽⚾⚿❅❆❇❈❉❊❋❌❁❂❃➭➮➯➰➱➲➳➴➵➶➷➸➹➺➻➼➽➾➿⚰⚱ aww that's not that many characters... 16:28:59 <\oren\> at least now I have all the dingbats 16:30:39 <\oren\> it was especially hard to draw like ten distinguishable asterisks and snowflakes 16:30:41 \oren\: do you have mail envelope and telephone dingbats too? 16:30:47 <\oren\> yep 16:31:19 ah, this ✆ is probably the telephone one 16:31:28 <\oren\> yes 16:36:49 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:37:15 And ✉ is the envelope 16:39:03 <\oren\> yes 16:39:22 <\oren\> those were easy to draw 16:41:00 <\oren\> I just had to spend quite some time experimenting to figure out how to draw all those damn snowflakes and asterisks different 16:44:08 <\oren\> sometimes the unicode consortium are meanies 16:47:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:48:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:58:17 \oren\: the snowflakes don't come from the unicode consortium, I think. it comes from those two and a half 256-character dingbat fonts from windows 16 before unicode, and now they had to encode all the characters in those so documents using them can be upgraded. 16:59:27 Goshdarn dingbats 16:59:42 ok, not really 256 character, I think they only have like 224 characters each or something, but they're fonts back when you just chose a different font when you wanted a different single-byte encoding. 17:01:55 <\oren\> wow, wallonia is still holding out 17:02:53 <\oren\> looks like the beginning of the end for globalbism 17:03:55 <\oren\> President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker has also urged the 28 member states to “fight against stupid populists.” 17:09:06 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 17:09:52 -!- iovoid has joined. 17:10:26 <\oren\> Chrystia freeland is the MP for my riding, but I didn't vote for her 17:12:27 <\oren\> I voted for Jennifer Hollett, because Chrystia didn't seem to care about local issues 17:15:58 <\oren\> I just wanted someone who would make the trains run on time 17:17:55 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:18:20 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:20:07 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:20:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:32:04 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:34:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:35:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:52:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:53:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 17:55:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:00:05 <\oren\> http://i.imgur.com/CznBOoj.jpg 18:00:11 <\oren\> Vlad the Inhaler 18:00:39 ☺ 18:07:23 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hnURox5G28 18:08:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:11:14 <\oren\> I wonder if peЯoco is supposed to be ペロコ or ペヤオコ 18:14:08 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:14:15 -!- Cale has joined. 18:22:28 `? day 18:22:29 day? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:29:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 18:32:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:37:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:39:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:45:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:50:30 Strictly speaking, even a rather small 64x64 image tells over 3000 words. 18:51:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:58:08 -!- deltab_ has changed nick to deltab. 19:14:59 Oh, good 19:15:02 Randall isn't dead 19:20:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:22:34 -!- wanderman has joined. 19:29:08 <\oren\> `unicode ə 19:29:10 U+0259 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCHWA \ UTF-8: c9 99 UTF-16BE: 0259 Decimal: ə \ ə (Ə) \ Uppercase: U+018F \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 19:31:01 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_alphabet 19:44:52 `unidecode 【=◈︿◈=】 19:44:53 ​[U+3010 LEFT BLACK LENTICULAR BRACKET] [U+FF1D FULLWIDTH EQUALS SIGN] [U+25C8 WHITE DIAMOND CONTAINING BLACK SMALL DIAMOND] [U+FE3F PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LEFT ANGLE BRACKET] [U+25C8 WHITE DIAMOND CONTAINING BLACK SMALL DIAMOND] [U+FF1D FULLWIDTH EQUALS SIGN] [U+3011 RIGHT BLACK LENTICULAR BRACKET] 19:49:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:51:27 -!- imode has joined. 19:51:27 -!- ybdett has changed nick to ybden. 19:58:48 Fun fact: Jesse's Girl (1) had brown eyes and (2) has a daughter named Stacy from a previous marriage 20:03:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:08:00 -!- godel has joined. 20:12:43 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:27:54 -!- augur has joined. 20:28:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:29:15 -!- augur has joined. 20:39:09 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:40:38 -!- jix has joined. 20:58:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:00:19 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:03:10 -!- Cale has joined. 21:16:41 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:23:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:53:35 what tools can parse grammars that require infinite lookahead? 21:56:23 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:56:25 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:58:44 -!- Cale has joined. 21:59:45 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 22:01:04 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:22:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:30:50 -!- wanderman has joined. 22:37:07 -!- imode has joined. 22:46:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:07:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:10:14 -!- boily has joined. 23:10:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:10:33 `wisdom 23:10:35 9//9 is a free smalltalk. 23:22:58 Well, that's handy: my mobile operator's "account balance" page has switched units from megabytes to gigabytes. 23:23:05 And they also don't do fractions. 23:24:52 So it's been showing "1" for the last 9 days, and I have no idea how much of the gigabyte is left. 23:25:44 fizzle: call them that there after you are only going to pay in kilopounds and only when the bill reaches that. 23:26:09 It's a pre-paid thing, so I don't think I can use that trick. 23:26:58 I'm still hoping they'll switch units once the remaining allowance goes under one full gigabyte. Extrapolating from historical trends, that should've already happened, but it's not entirely impossible it hasn't. 23:27:22 But quite possibly they're just rounding to nearest and it'll flip from "1" to "0" at half a gigabyte. 23:27:36 I thought telecoms only used bits as the units of data. 23:28:00 Bits are for speed, bytes are for volume. 23:28:12 bits per seconds are for speed 23:28:22 just bits are for volume. 23:28:28 Just bits aren't for anything. 23:29:01 Aaand we have a sign phrase for a protestor 23:29:02 Well, not exactly. Just bits are for bragging on your phone spec sheet. (64 instead of 32.) 23:29:58 well, I am off to bed 23:30:14 * Zarutian is unseen for the seen. 23:30:51 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:35:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:38:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vGjmZNbKGE 23:40:34 izellove. that is some sweet animation. 23:43:13 you're welcome boily 23:43:34 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:47:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:48:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:53:34 time to go clog my arteries with fat, grease, and greasy fat... 23:53:42 boily: Congratulations. 23:53:48 hppavilion[1]: POUTIIIIIIIIINE! 23:53:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FRIEND CHICKEN). 23:56:10 [generic question] If/when humans branch out to other planets (when it's been done for a while and we have the space infrastructure; not at the very beginning) how do you think we're likely to go about organizing? Will nations be united under a world super-nation (like the EU, but planet-wide), will nations tend to control entire planets, or will it just be a horrible mess of nation-splitting where countries are often split between 23:56:10 multiple planets, each of which tends to host multiple parts of countries? 23:58:01 It's going to just be colonialism IN SPACE hth hand 23:59:55 `? hand 23:59:56 A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.