00:00:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:00:37 -!- heroux has joined. 00:02:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:04:04 @messages-foul 00:04:05 fizzie said 15h 53m 30s ago: Actually, I don't do HackEgo-related backups, just the wiki. Maybe I should. 00:04:08 aww 00:08:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:12:19 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:07 -!- heroux_ has joined. 00:18:20 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:18:35 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 00:20:21 Zarutian: Zarutellon. interrupts are slightly black magic for me, as far as I can recall >_>'... 00:21:29 boily: hmm... how much do you know of ISAs? 00:23:05 boily: well on canonical dual stack machines they are simple. Basically they are unanticipated call to the InteruptServiceRoutine. 00:23:26 * boily throws a smoke grenade 00:23:47 * Zarutian goes into full lecture mode 00:24:22 * boily listens 00:25:21 I take that you know the basic Fetch-Execute cycle all CPUs and MCU cpu-like cores implement 00:26:01 I do. 00:27:51 `` mv wisdom/magnu{,s} 00:28:03 No output. 00:28:37 so the cpu usually fetches an instruction from what ever address the Instruction Pointer register tells. 00:28:54 it does. 00:30:32 however when an interupt happens, some sort of signal (a steady logical HIgh or LoToHi transition) is fed into the contoler of the cpu, yes? 00:31:28 bood evenily 00:32:06 oerjan: god aften. 00:32:54 god aften Zarutian 00:33:09 `dowg magnu 00:33:15 2016-10-20 ` mv wisdom/magnu{,s} \ 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-04-17 learn Magnus is the ghost the Trunchbull killed. 00:33:15 `dowg magnus 00:33:20 2016-10-20 ` mv wisdom/magnu{,s} 00:33:38 not the magnus i expected. 00:33:55 oerjan: coi pa do .i pau xu do cu baupli la lojban ku .i 00:34:19 i no speak-a lojban 00:34:51 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:09 oerjan: men du forstuer hvad jeg har sagt på lojban, nei? 00:35:32 * Zarutian prods boily 00:35:53 Zarutian: *munch* *munch* *munch* 00:36:25 (eating, still following what's happening, even if parts are in Norsk or something that looks like it.) 00:37:27 boily: well the last was in an baster coboil of Norks and Dansk. 00:38:38 *munch*. 00:42:34 "forstuer" is probably the wrong term here hth 00:43:13 so, the cpu pushes the current Instruction Pointer register contents onto the (return)stack, puts the address of the start of the ISR into Instruction Pointer register, disables interrupts and fetches the next instruction as per above. 00:43:21 (it means "sprain" hth) 00:43:27 *sprains 00:43:43 oerjan: could have gone with Svensk fattar instead probably 00:44:11 i'm pretty sure you meant "forstår" 00:44:25 I always confuse them 00:45:08 hence I sometimes get deep oiled kittens instead of chickens. 00:45:22 heck of a killing there 00:45:24 google translate's lojban support is unfortunately rather nonexistent, so no deal. 00:45:46 well when I am trying to speak Dansk that is 00:46:21 oerjan: humm... hvernig höndlar þýðingarvél Google íslenskt ritmál þá? 00:46:56 . o O ( mais qu'est-ce qu'un þýðingarvél??? ) 00:47:23 incidentally "fatter" is a norwegian word, which means the same as swedish "fattar", except when it means Daddy instead. 00:47:48 (it's not the most common word for Daddy, though.) 00:49:10 there are few design choices of where the ISR address is gotten from. In some systems it is hardcoded. In others it is in an memory addressable register and in yet other you get vectored interrupts where the ISR address is choicen from an small array of register based on the type of the interrupt 00:49:14 Zarutian: better than lojban. also i can guess a little icelandic. 00:49:29 boily: translationmachine 00:49:52 `thanks Zarutian 00:49:57 Thanks, Zarutian. Tharutian. 00:51:08 boily: another example of an long Icelandic word is alþjóðafarverkamannastarfsgreinasambandið (and I bet oerjan cant guess this one) 00:51:37 boily: þýðingarvél seems to mean translator. þýðing has an obvious norwegian nynorsk cognate tyding (and a slightly less obvious bokmål betydning), both meaning meaning. not sure of the vél part. 00:51:55 mine eyes. they are not in a happy place. 00:51:56 oerjan: vélabrögð! 00:52:15 * boily comforts himself with sane French spelling 00:52:16 it seems to mean machine according to google. 00:52:43 boily: i think icelandic spelling is relatively sane. 00:52:52 oerjan: indeed, it was adopted to mean that but also meant certain kind of magic|spell 00:53:09 huh 00:53:34 i cannot guess all of that long word but sambandet is a norwegian word. 00:54:18 it might be a funny way of saying Internet, come to think of it. 00:54:36 let's google 00:54:57 `` sed -i 'streatréat' wisdom/montreal 00:55:02 No output. 00:55:13 oh hm 00:55:24 looking at the mess google creates of it... 00:55:40 i'm changing my guess to ILO, the International Labor Organization. 00:55:41 oerjan: nope the Internet is Alnetið, rather sane one that. 00:56:37 * Zarutian breaks it up for oerjan: alþjóða-far-verkamanna-starfsgreina-sambandið 00:57:58 i was getting that far 00:58:45 still the same guess, unless there's a different international worker's union 00:59:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Association looks promising 01:00:38 oerjan: well its an international umbrella organization for guild-like organizations of travelling workers. 01:00:54 "just" is #esoteric's version of TV Tropes' "egregious"... 01:01:37 Zarutian: doesn't sound quite the same. i guess there are too many labor organizations 01:01:56 boily: i haven't noticed "egregious" 01:02:22 boily: well an roadtrip faviourite is always: Hellisheiðarvegavinnuverkamannkaffiskúrslykklakippunaglhaus 01:02:48 oerjan: it was egregiouser in the past, but they removed many of them. 01:02:58 (it's still the canonical egregious word.) 01:03:22 * boily mapoles spaces into the Zarutianwords 01:03:45 I'm guessing "Hell" is not Hell, but just pale or white. 01:03:56 -!- Cale has joined. 01:03:58 nope 01:04:29 in Icelandic we have four declanations instead of the measly two of English 01:05:18 Hellisheiði is a named georgraphy in Iceland 01:05:32 Whiteshade? 01:05:45 Zarutian: do you mean cases 01:05:53 oerjan: cases yes 01:05:56 declinations count a different thing 01:06:33 my english vocabulary regarding grammar isnt much 01:07:07 boily: Cavern-Highland. 01:07:17 well english probably doesn't have declinations since its noun grammar is too regular. not sure about icelandic. 01:07:41 (basically a declination is a class of nouns that all inflect in a similar way) 01:08:06 declanations is where nouns get diffrent endings depending on stuff like the 'sex' of the word and such? 01:08:28 well those might count, however it's not the same. 01:08:54 e.g. in Latin some of the declinations contain words of different genders. 01:09:08 that is what I am talking about 01:09:53 no i mean, Julius and verbum are latin words both of the 2nd declination; the first is masculine and the second is neuter. 01:10:40 and the most common adjective inflection uses 1st declination for feminine and 2nd for masculine and neuter. 01:10:44 barn-ið, bók-in, hestur-inn. (Neuter, feminine, masculine, the ending is equiv to danish -en or english the) 01:11:04 Zarutian: danish as -et for neuter 01:11:06 *has 01:11:51 declination also refers to the entire inflection pattern of a noun though. 01:12:01 dont force me to remember the rules of what words are neuter and combined (both mascuiline and feminine) 01:12:28 well norwegian has 3 genders. barnet, boka, hesten. same as icelandic there. 01:13:24 un évier, une cuiller. perfectly logical. 01:14:18 (mind you, it's /evje/ and /kɥijɛʁ/.) 01:14:42 English has the *remnants* of a noun declination system, at least. I think purely in the pronouns, though. 01:18:37 `? oerjan 01:18:39 Your reverberated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:18:46 oh, it has become green now. 01:19:37 AAAAAAAAA MUST. SKIP. POLITICS. IN. LOGS. 01:19:50 oerjan: oh, is it a good politics? 01:20:02 wat 01:20:42 `slwd oerjan//s#oerjan#oerjan# 01:20:44 wisdom/oerjan//Your reverberated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:20:52 wut 01:21:16 or just the usual clownfi(gh|t)ting? 01:21:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:21:47 * boily *THWACKS* shachaf. "hey, I'm trying to format that!" 01:22:03 `revert 01:22:17 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:22:20 no reverting, oerjan is rainboerjaned. 01:23:08 `cat bin/rainboerjan 01:23:09 cat: bin/rainboerjan: No such file or directory 01:25:54 okay, I'm done with 'O'. you can tweak oerjan to your heart's content! 01:26:23 this wisdom has some race conditions. 01:26:51 `hoag bin/rainboerjan 01:26:51 oerjan: like at red severty or? 01:26:57 No output. 01:27:01 Zarutian: wat 01:27:12 oerjan: race condition red 01:27:23 i have no idea what that means. 01:27:58 afaik it appears to mix two unrelated concepts. 01:31:40 it was an attempt to reference http://everything2.com/user/The+Custodian/writeups/Race+Condition+Red 01:40:25 OKAY 01:41:18 oerjan: and also: oysters are filter feeders. 01:43:32 feeeel the zeeen frustration yet? 01:44:36 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:44:43 -!- b_jonas has joined. 01:51:53 mu. 02:04:32 mumumumumumumumu ♪ 02:08:46 @yow mumu? 02:08:47 I feel like a wet parking meter on Darvon! 02:25:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DEUTEROLOGICAL CHICKEN). 02:29:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:36:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:39:54 `? color 02:40:10 ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 02:40:19 `? colour 02:40:20 ​Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeud to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu. 02:40:44 `dowg colour 02:40:50 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-05-31 ` sed -i -e \'s/\\([a-z]\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)*[a-z]\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)*[a-z]\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)*\\)\\([a-z]\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)* \\)/\\1u\\5/g\' -e \'s/louur/lour/\' -e \'s/\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)*\\(\\x03[0-9][0-9]\\)/\\2/g\' wisdom/colo 02:42:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:07 <\oren\> coulour 02:47:25 <\oren\> cuouluour 02:47:39 coulour couloumb! 02:49:56 nout coul 02:53:17 Might any additional node types be useful for FreeUHS? If any are added, then hint files that use them won't be compatible with OpenUHS (unless someone adds those features into OpenUHS). One kind of node type I thought might be useful to add is password type; there are several other nodes locked by passwords and you can access them if you know the password. 02:53:58 zzo38: UHS stands for what in this context? 02:54:10 Universal Hint System 02:54:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:54:34 FreeUHS and OpenUHS are free implementations of that. 02:55:08 and what are Universal Hint Systems? 02:55:56 oh, these are hints for stuff like MIT annual riddle competition? 02:56:19 Wikipedia has some information. You can also see http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freeuhs.ui/ for FreeUHS. 02:56:31 They are files that have menu of hints generally for computer games 02:56:44 it's spelled TRAAAAAINS hth <-- as they ZOOOOM by? 02:56:53 As far as I know, there aren't any for MIT annual riddle competition, but with FreeUHS you can write such a file if you want to do! 02:57:16 (InvisiClues is also a bit similar system to UHS) 02:57:45 oerjan: you've welcome to find out in the other channel hth 02:57:58 . o O ( zero knowledge hint protocol ) 02:58:11 hi zzo38 02:58:22 neat. 02:58:24 Is there a JavaScript implementation of UHS? 02:58:34 No one uses programs that don't run in web browsers anymore. 02:58:34 shachaf: Yes; FreeUHS is a JavaScript implementation. 02:58:38 Aha. 02:58:39 OK. 02:59:16 @tell boily who's or what's a Jander? <-- a robot from asimov's robot series iirc (and i looked it up because of the wisdom) 02:59:16 Consider it noted. 02:59:19 But I thought it was for hints of already solved riddle contests. My confusion. 02:59:35 oerjan: oh, THAT Jander 02:59:53 `? jander 02:59:54 Jander was murdered, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask. 03:00:17 it's one of b_jonas's ones 03:00:18 I was wondering why I found the name somewhat familiar 03:00:52 What I intend to add to FreeUHS later is one file for making printouts of UHS, with optional support for invisible ink or scratch-off layers. 03:03:02 You can also tell me any other feature requests or bug reports or whatever else too. 03:03:10 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1gux6jeTR8 03:09:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:20:11 What is the proper way for a HTTP client to check if it is redirecting from WAN to LAN? 03:20:44 I want to make the FreeUHS catalog program to refuse to redirect in such a case 03:22:14 -!- godel has joined. 03:27:22 zzo38: what do you mean by 'redirecting from WAN to LAN'? the webserver returned an status code that the resource had moved and specifies an LAN hosted server? 03:28:00 Yes 03:28:28 But only if the original connection isn't LAN 03:29:41 "We call a special Frobenius monoid that also obeys this extra law extra-special." 03:31:25 zzo38: well such knowledge requires knowing the IP address of the web server being redirected to. And if it falls into the usual LAN (or local) only IP addresses 03:38:02 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 04:24:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:45:18 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:47:28 [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/brainfcuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50024&oldid=46992 * Elronnd * (-287) 04:58:29 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T00-c_6yvMk 05:00:04 [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/brainfcuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50025&oldid=50024 * Elronnd * (+279) 05:00:13 -!- Elronnd has joined. 05:04:21 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:05:26 i've got a hundred million reasons to walk away, but baby i just need one good one to stay 05:08:05 okay 05:10:45 in freefall, clippy needs to work on his metaphors 05:15:15 in girl genius, it appears that wearing purple does not prevent you from being a redshirt. 05:16:15 don't be shirtist 05:16:28 well actually the whole comic seems purple today. 05:17:49 <\oren\> clearly they need to make a depurplizer 05:17:51 No guarantees of survival unless you're part of the core cast 05:18:08 There is one in Zork: Grand Inquisitor 05:18:31 http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/pcZz/ZGIms.htm 05:18:35 See IGRAM 05:18:55 You can do all sorts of great things with that spell. 05:18:56 also, the foglios are not very serious about conlanging. 05:19:11 For example, there's a place labelled "infinite corridor" in purple. 05:19:28 You can turn it into "corridor" or "infinite" or nothing. 05:20:43 Why does it even make an invisible fence visible 05:20:52 That game was too good. 05:21:26 -!- Elronnd has left. 05:32:14 <\oren\> oerjan: I'm not sure whether conlanging is needed for Girl Genius. It takes place mostly in alternate-germany anyway 05:33:06 <\oren\> and partly in other parts of alternate-europe 05:35:51 \oren\: you didn't look at today's comic, did you? 05:36:55 Well, right now they are in Paris 05:36:56 <\oren\> Oh. the spider rider language. ' 05:37:18 it's pretty bad :P 05:37:22 <\oren\> DEM! 05:37:48 I assume sparks just naturally learn languages really easily or something =P 05:37:54 Or for some reason all of europa uses one language 05:38:25 <\oren\> Most of the text that isn't english that I've seen has been german 05:38:35 FreeFull: i think it's canonical that the parts they usually spend time in use german and romanian 05:38:37 <\oren\> I mean on signs and suck 05:38:54 Romanian? Weird 05:39:14 <\oren\> The wulfenbach empire enforces the "Pax Transylvania" 05:39:24 FreeFull: the story starts in _transylvania_ polygnostic university, after all 05:39:29 \oren\: Did you mean Latin? 05:39:35 Oh 05:39:41 <\oren\> So I think they actually originate there 05:39:43 I guess it would be Romanian 05:40:24 <\oren\> (even if their capital is a giant airship) 05:40:35 i noticed they've not been terribly serious about using french writing in paris either. 05:42:22 Yeah, it's mostly been in English 05:42:31 I assume for the benefit of the readership, or out of laziness 05:51:13 `? oerjan 05:51:17 Your reverberated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 05:51:24 That wisdom entry is too long but I don't know what to delete. 05:51:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:51:47 What happens nowadays when you try to remember a word? 05:52:17 The only way to make a proper horror game, I believe, is to revert to tbrpg-mode 05:53:13 Fancy graphics will subvert the point, because you'll be too busy saying 'damn, that monster looks good' to say "AAAAAAAAAGHHH" 05:53:27 (Contingency: This is mostly just for Lovecraftian horror) 05:54:35 text will dominate all! 05:54:51 bow to the power of your own imaginations! 05:55:42 shachaf: i get pissed off and write "amortized" instead out of spite hth 05:56:19 `wisdom oerjan 05:56:21 oerjan//Your reverberated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 05:56:28 shachaf: it fits hth 05:57:18 `? ais523 05:57:20 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 05:57:42 ...OK 05:57:45 ? 05:57:51 `` cat wisdom/ais523 05:57:53 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 05:57:57 OK then 06:11:26 is there a point where a hash table is expected to give memory back to the system? 06:12:07 if i delete 90% of the entries, should the table resize itself to a smaller size? 06:15:25 Depends on the hash table, TBH. 06:16:01 care to elaborate? 06:16:30 It's nicer to do that, but can be more complicated and expensive. 06:17:46 * izalove checks what sparsehash does 06:18:51 it needs a way to detect if i'm on a delete streak or if i just reserved some extra space... 06:19:13 ok no resizing 06:19:14 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:25 The obvious way to avoid really, really bad grow/resize patterns is to only grow by factors of 2 and shrink by factors of 1/4th (or similar)... 06:22:20 yeah but maybe i just created a large table for future needs 06:30:13 while() { ; break; } is a really good replacement for if. 06:31:12 wonder how the compiler would treat that. 06:31:21 Brainfucking much? 06:31:36 I know, I'll examine it! 06:33:38 imode: "really good" is a bit of a stretch 06:34:57 that's.. funny. 06:35:26 the while() { ; break; } version ends... up with less code. 06:37:23 weird, when left to the default flags, the if version ends up with less code.. there's two nops in the while( version. 06:37:41 cute. 06:42:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:45:09 imode: How could it possibly end up with less code? 06:45:47 Unless, like, it has some subtly different semantics that are only true when the value is quantum during bitdecay or something 06:45:54 s/true/relevant/ 06:46:26 hppavilion[1]: fun2 has a nopw at the end. 06:46:56 imode: ...wat? 06:47:06 http://pastebin.com/LPejPR7U 06:47:35 give me a moment and I'll grab you the source. 06:47:50 http://pastebin.com/Atx4WEGB 06:53:37 I can really get behind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbaL6qt6_c 06:57:59 https://www.reddit.com/r/DonaldandHobbes/ 06:59:45 I love powers of two. my language now has 32 commands after deciding to be base-agnostic. 06:59:52 * imode squees. 07:00:56 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:01:21 `? civilization 07:01:22 civilization? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:01:58 imode: 33 is also a powe of two, = 2^5.044394119358453[digits omitted]. hth 07:02:04 power* 07:02:40 `le/rn Civilization/ It is rumoured that Taneb invented civilization, but this is false. It was actually invented by Sid Meier, who also invented cities. 07:02:45 Learned 'civilization': It is rumoured that Taneb invented civilization, but this is false. It was actually invented by Sid Meier, who also invented cities. 07:02:55 lifthrasiir: okay, _natural_ powers of two. :P 07:03:21 1 might or might not be a natural power of two :D 07:03:26 shhhhh. : 07:03:28 *:P 07:13:56 `? Sid Meier 07:13:57 Sid Meier? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:15:41 ? `le/rn Sid Meier/Sid Meier was invented by Taneb_Omega, who was invented by Taneb_(Omega-1), who was invented by Taneb_(Omega-2) who was invented by ... who was invented by Taneb_2, who was invented by Taneb_1, who was invented by Taneb_0, aka Taneb. 07:16:10 `? civilization 07:16:13 ​ It is rumoured that Taneb invented civilization, but this is false. It was actually invented by Sid Meier, who also invented cities. 07:16:38 what. 07:16:43 hppavilion[1]: so Taneb transitively invented civilization? 07:16:46 Sid Meier is not a recursive Taneb-vention! 07:17:04 lifthrasiir: We've established that invention is not transitive. Apparently. 07:17:17 yup thus an additional adverb 07:17:22 alercah: Of course not; he's an invention from the bottom of an infinite tower of Tanebs 07:19:42 imode: 33 is also a natural log of 2; 2**ln(155.15026817143126[digits omitted]). hth. 07:20:30 s/log/power/ 07:20:37 being natural is irrational 07:21:05 lifthrasiir: But it's integral to my way of life! 07:21:14 Trying to break it is too complex! 07:22:32 (Come on, respond to my pun) 07:23:08 hppavilion[1]: I've chosen to differentiate myself from that style 07:23:16 *phew* 07:23:25 lifthrasiir: Wait, was that a calculus pun? 07:23:31 I thought we were just doing types of numbers 07:23:45 ('integral' as in integer-related, not as in squiggly) 07:24:02 ah, I thought it is related to the relationship between infinite integral and logarithm 07:24:10 went too far! 07:24:10 No. It was not. 07:24:21 We're just making number puns right now. 07:24:41 Join in or be quat. 07:24:47 (-ernion) 07:25:12 hppavilion[1]: that's so surreal. 07:25:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:25:21 Ooooh, nice one 07:25:46 lifthrasiir: And really, how natural is one's life? It cannot be broken down into a mere boolean. 07:25:56 (wait, I don't think that was actually a pun...) 07:26:01 none of this is making any rational sense. 07:26:28 okay, I'm running out of pun then :p 07:26:48 * lifthrasiir has thought of punning with p-adic numbers 07:26:55 * imode wonders what a base-agnostic "bit shift" would look like.. perhaps a digit shift? 07:27:02 lifthrasiir: Only by rejecting the orders of our cardinals can we fulfill are dual nature and achieve transcendence 07:27:08 so 123 << 2 would end up as 300... 07:27:17 that's not how ordinals work and it's overdoing it anyway 07:27:18 (and realized that pedantic does not match against p-adic) 07:27:28 `revert 07:27:41 shachaf: I didn't actually add it hth 07:27:42 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 07:27:45 oops 07:27:48 shachaf: I just proposed it 07:27:54 `revert 07:27:54 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 07:28:13 `before 07:28:26 you always overdo it, that's the thing 07:28:37 wisdom/civilization// It is rumoured that Taneb invented civilization, but this is false. It was actually invented by Sid Meier, who also invented cities. 07:29:02 `slwd civilization//s/^ // 07:29:05 Roswbud! 07:29:11 ...wait, what? 07:29:29 `now 07:29:32 wisdom/civilization//cat: wisdom/civilization: No such file or directory 07:29:54 hm 07:30:00 shachaf: Can we get back to our numberpuns now? 07:30:21 am i too mean [y/y] 07:30:32 lifthrasiir: I have created the ultimate new-agey-sounding joke about something completely different 07:31:21 Acknowledge me as your goddess (which would be weird, because /me is male (p < 0.05)... but eh, that's the kind of power you get when you're a goddess) 07:31:54 question on api design 07:31:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:32:10 i wrote a function that frees some resource 07:32:24 s* s_free(s*); <- prototype looks like this 07:32:31 it returns its argument 07:33:00 i also have a function that copies stuff from one resource to another and allocates space for it if needed 07:33:10 lifthrasiir: With the amount of pun I bestowed on you, we can never be even. 07:33:11 s* s_dup(s* dest, const s* src); 07:33:39 which means you can do something like this s_dup(s_free(h->values[pos]), value); 07:33:52 I don't follow. 07:33:53 this looks handy 07:33:55 is this bad design? 07:34:03 What does s_free() do? 07:34:25 it frees up the space used by its argument 07:34:42 But then its argument is still valid? 07:35:02 What is s? 07:35:03 that argument is more like a char** 07:35:55 s is a union that contains a pointer to heap allocated memory 07:36:37 so s* looks like a char** 07:36:53 OK, so that's similar to free(*h->values[pos]); *h->values[pos] = alloc(); copy(*h->values[pos], value);? 07:37:10 yeah something like that 07:37:41 but i'm doing it like dup(free(oldvalue), newvalue) 07:37:54 does that look terrible? 07:39:05 basically all my functions return their first argument to allow that kind of chaining 07:39:16 I should have said copy(*h->values[pos], *value); 07:39:39 yes sorry 07:39:52 * izalove didn't notice the missing * 07:40:16 This seems like a slightly odd thing to do. 07:40:43 memcpy memset strcpy... 07:40:52 stpcpy etc 07:41:52 I mean your free API. 07:42:11 because free is supposed to be void? 07:42:33 one can also use function(something)->field = value 07:45:34 Well, free puts its argument in an odd semi-valid state. 07:46:08 oh no it's completely valid 07:46:31 let me show you some code 07:46:44 https://github.com/izabera/s 07:47:18 Ah, that's what s is. 07:47:31 yeah 07:47:34 "s* s_newlen(s *x" 07:47:35 help 07:47:50 what's the problem? 07:47:54 Oh, you're just inconsistent within the file. 07:48:02 where? 07:48:13 I thought it was some odd scheme where things outside the function arguments are spaced differently from function arguments. 07:48:38 I just found out what a polecat (hov http://xkcd.com/1032/) is 07:48:44 * hppavilion[1] is disappoint 07:48:59 shachaf: actually that's it 07:49:23 but i'll fix that <.< 07:49:33 But then you write "s* s_cat(s* a" 07:49:41 Anyway, not important. 07:50:04 i haven't really decided where the * should go 07:50:35 the right answer is "t *x" hth 07:50:39 ok 07:50:48 (But as long as you're consistent I don't really care.) 07:50:49 willfix 07:51:28 Anyway, I'm still not sure whether this is a good API. 07:52:47 Why do you restrict capacity to powers of 2? 07:53:05 to store it in 6 bits 07:53:32 and because i'm a computer person so powers of 2 are the way to go 07:53:38 Do you think the same use cases require 2^54-byte strings and also compact 15-byte strings? 07:53:42 the latter reason is valid. 07:53:42 :P 07:54:09 anyway have you read e.g. https://github.com/facebook/folly/blob/master/folly/docs/FBVector.md 07:54:43 "it can be mathematically proven that a growth factor of 2 is rigorously the worst possible because it never allows the vector to reuse any of its previously-allocated memory" 07:55:18 * shachaf shudders at "if (...) ... else { ... }" 07:55:25 I shouldn't complain about your formatting. 07:55:29 izalove: oh, I've read it up and it's a bit clever 07:55:39 But you should really just run it through clang-format or something. 07:55:54 I'm aware of SSO-23 and thought how can it be possible to have 16-byte-long structure without a capacity 07:56:10 the capacity was... encoded in 6 bits :) 07:56:48 shachaf: thanks for the link 07:57:04 Anyway none of this is answering your question. 07:57:13 lifthrasiir: sso23 is 24 bytes 07:57:13 what was the question? 07:57:20 "is this good design?" 07:57:48 as per to the API? 07:58:38 yeah, functions that return their first argument for chaining purposes 07:59:37 I think for free in particular it's pretty odd. 08:00:08 lifthrasiir: Are you just never going to acknowledge my pun? 08:00:11 (s) 08:00:45 `? pun 08:00:47 Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings. 08:01:12 hppavilion[1]: sorry, was confused on what parts are intended to be pun 08:01:31 lifthrasiir: The line with the cardinals 08:01:39 that went too far 08:02:11 lifthrasiir: went to far with the pun or it's out of scrollback? 08:02:13 don't worry, I'm sure it was punintentional. 08:02:16 both 08:02:24 * imode bolts it. 08:02:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:02:55 izalove: I wonder if that style of API will survive future expansion of convenience APIs, like sprintf 08:03:24 I like s_cat 08:03:31 for one data point 08:03:48 sprintf typically returns an int but s knows its size so it could just return its first arg 08:03:56 lifthrasiir: It was "Only by rejecting the orders of our cardinals can we fulfill are dual nature and achieve transcendence" 08:04:21 hppavilion[1]: yeah I think that pun is being uncountable 08:04:36 (...I don't get it) 08:04:42 izalove: s_sprintf_cat? :p 08:04:56 append-formatting is surprisingly common 08:05:07 yeah sds has something like that 08:05:23 hppavilion[1]: pun in non-native language is daunting, please bear with me 08:05:32 Ah 08:05:42 punning* 08:05:53 https://github.com/antirez/sds#formatting-strings 08:06:07 I have no problem in _reading_ pun... except that I might not understand that immediately :p 08:06:18 (How have wen't said "Prime" yet?) 08:06:32 `? fibonacci 08:06:33 fibonacci? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:07:00 `? Fibonacci numbers 08:07:01 Fibonacci numbers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:07:12 `` grep 'fibonacci' wisdom/ 08:07:13 grep: wisdom/: Is a directory 08:07:20 grep -r 08:07:20 `` grep -rl 'fibonacci' wisdom/ 08:07:22 grep: wisdom/: No such file or directory 08:07:26 Dammit 08:07:34 `` grep -rl 'fibonacci' wisdom/ 08:07:43 No output. 08:07:48 Weird. 08:07:49 izalove: I personally hope to see an equivalent to std::string_view in C 08:08:00 unsure about the API though 08:08:04 that's called char* 08:08:16 char* and size. 08:08:30 greatly easy to omit size. 08:08:47 who needs a size when you've got a null terminator 08:08:52 Even in C++11 one is tempted to use char * instead of string_view 08:08:58 And do all sorts of arithmetic. 08:09:13 Fortunately you just have to be smart and never get it wrong, so it works fine. 08:09:22 ez 08:10:53 izalove: so we've got a stupidity like strtok, haven't we? 08:11:25 i have yet to write it for s 08:11:41 you will eventually need to write that 08:13:13 izalove: on the capacity: I think it is clever, but doubling every time is not optimal for larger strings 08:13:34 I've once had 64KB cut in my C string library; sds seems to have 1MB cut 08:13:57 beyond that point the amount of additional allocation is limited 08:14:39 e.g. with 1MB cut, appending two bytes to a string with len=32767 cap=32768 will yield one with len=32769 cap=65536 08:15:07 but doing the same to a string with len=2^24-1 cap=2^24 will yield one with len=2^24+1 cap=2^24+2^20 08:15:50 allocation request basically strains the allocator, so excess allocation should be limited to some threshold 08:17:01 shameless plug: https://gist.github.com/lifthrasiir/4422136 08:17:18 not exactly a string, though (I forgot that :p) 08:18:27 my gut feeling is that large strings are more likely to be appended large amounts of data 08:18:56 so once you're past 100mb it makes little sense to grow by 1mb at a time 08:18:56 my assumption is that it's bimodal 08:19:23 izalove: any incremental building can result in such a behavior 08:19:38 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:19:59 yeah but what if you resize by decreasing increments 08:20:09 like, a 16byte string gets resized by 2x 08:20:16 32 byte gets resized by 1.9x 08:20:27 ... 100 mb gets resized by 1.5x 08:20:51 something that decreases logarithmically 08:22:25 yeah, but copying 32 byte string is quick; copying 100 MB string is not 08:23:30 that doesn't seem to be a point against what i said 08:24:16 ah 08:25:01 that might somehow work, but I guess 1.5x is still a bit large 08:28:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:29:47 I have some other idea of effects of Magic: the Gathering cards. One such idea is: Put a +0/+1 counter on target creature. That creature fights itself. 08:32:35 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:48:07 -!- augur has joined. 09:30:22 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:51:33 -!- feliks has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:55:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:04:41 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:10:00 heh heh heh 10:10:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:15:07 I have just learned about "SMASH FACE ON KEYBOARD; POST RESULTS". 10:15:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:15:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 10:15:36 ...that was the result, apparently 10:15:38 Dammit, f4 10:27:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:27:56 Some computer games ask for you to type in your name in the high scores. I generally prefer to enter the current date instead; all of them are my score anyways. 10:28:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:15:14 zzo38: isn't that a tradition from the arcade machines, from when it was strange if only one person played the machine 11:16:29 also, that reminds me to http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060213 11:16:46 (ctrl+alt+del comic, Ethan proposes to Lilah 11:16:47 ) 11:32:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:36:09 -!- boily has joined. 11:42:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:53:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:57:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:02:10 @massages-loud 12:02:11 oerjan said 9h 2m 54s ago: who's or what's a Jander? <-- a robot from asimov's robot series iirc (and i looked it up because of the wisdom) 12:02:28 @tell oerjan hellørjan. tdh. t! 12:02:29 Consider it noted. 12:08:20 @metar CYUL 12:08:21 CYUL 211100Z 01019KT 8SM -RA BKN005 OVC009 10/09 A2981 RMK SF7SF1 SLP098 12:09:00 today's weather is simple. it's going to be that, all the way at least for the next 24 hours. no variation at all whatsoever. woohoo... 12:11:25 http://meteo.gc.ca/forecast/hourly/qc-147_metric_f.html and http://imgur.com/a/uZNQc for posterity. 12:18:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POACHED CHICKEN). 12:40:33 [wiki] [[THRAT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50026&oldid=46255 * YSomebody * (+0) 12:41:10 http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/77952/previous-company-name-is-isis-how-to-list-on-cv 13:02:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:30:15 -!- super_bender has joined. 13:31:01 -!- lleu has joined. 13:31:28 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:51:22 @tell boily in Asimov's robot series, only two humanoid robots were ever built; Jander was one of them, but is only seen in the past tense because he already was "dead" (i.e. permanently incapable of functioning) at the point at which he's introduced to the story 13:51:22 Consider it noted. 14:00:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:09:47 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:12:07 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:14:39 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:25:03 ais523: at least in the age of the Cities. later in the Empire the robots build a few more, and a few of them are significant characters. 14:25:37 b_jonas: IIRC that's intentionally ambiguous in the books 14:26:18 ais523: that depends on which characters you're talking about 14:28:38 ais523: SPOILER Stephen Byerley is definitely ambiguous, nobody will be able to tell whether he was a robot; Dors Venabili was definitely a robot, it's slightly ambiguous in Prelude to Foundation but clear in Forward the Foundation; 14:29:13 oh, I thought even Forward was intentionally ambiguous, but less so 14:29:19 wrt Dors 14:29:32 Byerley is clearly ambiguous (although I'm also unclear if that story is in the same continuity as the others) 14:30:26 in any case, even if Forward is ambiguous, there's the Foundation's Triumph trilogy which makes it clear that Dors is a robot and IIRC also introduces at least one more humanoid robots. 14:31:13 In addition, according to Foundation and Earth, Daneel has had more than one humanoid body, so I wonder if he should be counted with multiplicity. 14:32:17 technically speaking we only have his word for that, but there's not much reason to think he was lying 14:32:55 ais523: Byerley is definitely in the same continuity as the robot novels, at least as far as there's such a continuity: Byerley (from "Evidence") re-appears in "The Evitable Conflict", 14:33:23 b_jonas: I was more questioning if that was in the same continuity as, say, The Caves of Steel 14:33:39 I'm not sure if the Evidence continuity even features Susan Calvin (it might; I can't remember) 14:33:50 -!- Cale has joined. 14:35:39 The Evidence story has Susan Calvin in it. 14:36:05 I think they're sort of both the same continuity, the one where the spacers first wage war against Earth, as told in, uh which story is that about the war when Earth is defeated, anyway, that happens much after The Evitable Conflict and I think before Caves of Steel? 14:36:14 I'm not sure of the chronology here, I'd have to look it up 14:36:24 fizzie: that's correct 14:37:14 She provides the last bit about Byerley becoming the World Coordinator, foreshadowing The Evitable Conflict. 14:37:18 Also he's totes a robot. 14:37:55 In fact, it's The Bicentennial Man, which btw has another humanoid robot, which doesn't really seem to be integrated to the continuity with the spacers. 14:39:03 It's actually connected story-wise, because for a while Andrew works on the moon base where they're researching faster-than-light travel, and the story of that research is told in two or three of the other robot stories. It just doesn't feel like the same world to me for some reason. 14:40:02 And the short story version of The Bicentennial Man is anthologized in The Complete Robot, so it's definitely one of those robot stories. 14:40:03 It doesn't feel like the same world because all the other books are so strict about US Robotics robots never being allowed to move around freely on Earth, but Andrew does that and nobody as much as raises an eyebrow. 14:40:22 Well, maybe not "all the other books". 14:40:23 I'm pretty sure The Bicentennial Man is a different continuity from The Caves of Steel 14:40:33 But that's a plot point in many of the books. 14:40:37 s/books/stories/ 14:40:38 fizzie: I think that's chronology difference. The Bicentennial Man happens later. 14:40:41 even if it's a very similar universe 14:41:05 fwiw, although some of the original robot stories (I, Robot and the like) are clearly in the same continuity 14:41:11 I think that many of them are negative-continuity one-offs 14:41:15 ok wait, which one is the story about the war when the spacers attack Earth and blockade it? 14:41:21 (i.e. "the story is set in an established universe but makes no changes to it") 14:41:33 and when does that happen in relation to the Baley novels? 14:41:41 b_jonas: not sure; those events are mentioned as being in the past in The Caves of Steel 14:41:45 b_jonas: I remember all the details except the name. 14:41:46 but they might have happened more than once 14:42:07 the book gives the impression that they were a semi-regular occurence 14:42:11 fizzie: I *don't* remember the details, I never liked that story 14:43:00 It's clear that Robots and Empire happens after the three Baley novels 14:43:05 I keep getting some of the details mixed up with that other story with Altmayer. 14:43:11 In a Good Cause, I mean. 14:43:45 b_jonas: It's "Mother Earth". 14:43:51 `thanks grep 14:44:00 fizzie: thanks 14:44:02 ^thanks grep 14:44:02 Thanks, grep. Thep. 14:44:19 Mother Earth => http://www.asimovreviews.net/Stories/Story179.html 14:44:28 that definitely asys it's before The Caves of Steel 14:44:54 fizzie: is that one connected to the earlier robot stories (of The Complete Robot) somehow? 14:46:54 It doesn't talk very much about robots, so not sure. 14:47:10 There's at least one story that refers back to the Machines in The Evitable Conflict. 14:48:03 And that would be That Thou Art Mindful of Him, included in The Bicentennial Man. 14:48:23 for the Machines to be in the same continuity as the Cities and Empire, they'd have to have been fairly flawed, IMO 14:48:25 That's very much out of the continuity that leads to the spacers and all that, I think. 14:49:02 given that a major plot point is that they took certain actions specifically to prevent the situation that exists at the start of the City books happening 14:49:29 assuming I'm thinking of the right story 14:49:40 That Thou Art Mindful of Him is the one where they stop using human-level robots, turn to small robotic animals to something something ecology (that don't have the Three Laws), but it's all a plot by one of the robots to make sure they will be the superior beings later. 14:50:00 Ok wait, are the spacers mentioned before Mother Earth, chronologically, like in any of the Complete Robot stories? 14:51:00 well they clearly don't exist during the stories that talk about the invention of FTL travel 14:51:05 ais523: That Thou Art Mindful of Him have one version of how we get rid of the Machines, but like I said, I don't think that's on the way to Cities and Empire. 14:51:10 and IIRC those are fairly late in the Robot continuity 14:51:34 "Those Machines limited their action of their own accord. Once they had solved the ecological problems that had threatened human society, they phased themselves out. Their own continued existence would, they reasoned, have placed them in the role of a crutch to mankind and, since they felt this would harm human beings, they condemned themselves by the First Law." 14:52:03 (fwiw, I suspect that the invention-of-FTL stories /are/ in the Cities and Empire continuity; the FTL gets considerably improved in the meantime but still seems to have the same limitations) 14:52:16 One thing that ties stuff together is that Susan Calvin is mentioned as a legend in the Foundation, but you can still have a legend or robotics without all the early robot stories actually happening. 14:52:40 Calvin is also mentioned in the Cities stories 14:53:07 the Spacers are surprised that she came from Earth, even though nothing else would make logical sense 14:53:16 (she's dead at that point but still a respected historical figure, and not someone who's had a chance to fade into myth yet) 14:54:13 Is right 14:54:23 I think she's already dead at the time of Mother Earth 14:55:33 Ok, from this so far it seems like there's two continuities: 14:56:17 One with all the early robot stories, Susan Calvin, Byerley, the machines, and it ends with Andrew's death. 14:59:22 And a second with the spacers, that starts with Mother Earth and the spacers having left Earth, separating from humans, Fastolfe builds Daneel and Jander, Sarton uses Daneel and Baley to forward his political goals against Amadiro, 15:00:35 as told in the Baley trilogy and Robots and Empire, and then the humans leave Earth and Earth becomes radioactive from Amadiro's machinations, 15:03:34 b_jonas: Andrew works on the moon base on prosthetics, and nowhere does it say they're working on FTL; also, Hyper Base (where they did research FTL in the robot stories) is somewhere in the asteroid belt. 15:03:52 (which is Asimov's greatest retcon, erasing the nuclear wars from ''Pebble in the sky'': there's not many people who dare to remove entire nuclear wars from history, apart from the guys in Eternity and George Lucas) 15:04:16 fizzie: hmm 15:04:36 b_jonas: I'm not sure that Pebble in the Sky explains how the world became radioactive 15:05:06 ais523: isn't it Pebble in the Sky that says it was nuclear wars? maybe it was some other story, Foundation and Earth or something 15:05:13 I don't remember how that works 15:05:21 also I thought that the canon explanation for the radioactivity was that Giskard caused it to happen, and ended up killing himself in the process due to a First Law dilemma 15:05:24 I like the Robots and Empire version 15:06:12 ais523: yes, but Giskard was just choosing to stop Daneel from stopping Amadiro, and it was Amadiro who made the machine to make Earth radioactive, but Amadiro did it for evil reasons and lied about it 15:06:33 ah right 15:06:47 so it was more of a cooperative thing, both Amadiro and Giskard needed to make the decision for it to happen 15:07:06 or something like that, I'll have to reread Robots and Empire 15:07:29 I think Amadiro also had a lackey with him but I don't remember who, and possibly a different spelling of his name 15:08:12 Vasilia, perhaps? she's female but I know you have pronoun troubles so I'm not relying on the pronouns 15:08:20 no no, 15:08:27 oh 15:09:05 you mean the other character is Vasilia, reused from Robots of Dawn? 15:09:08 possible 15:09:15 that seems believable 15:09:26 let me check what http://asimovreviews.net/Books/Book328.html says 15:09:47 I just thought it was a newly introdced character 15:09:50 Amadiro orchestrated most of the events of Robots of Dawn, but it was Vasilia who was responsible for actually implementing many of them 15:11:20 "Amadiro orchestrated most of the events of Robots of Dawn" -- ah yes, no wonder Daneel remembers his friendship with Elijah as good times later in the Foundation. That was back when Daneel wasn't yet orchestrating all the events of human history. Oh to be young and careless and not have the troubles of the whole galaxy on your back! 15:11:48 The end of Robots and Empire is when he grows up. 15:12:38 yes, Daneel had an incredibly low amount of orchestration in Robots of Dawn 15:12:48 most of the events were orchestrated by Amadiro, and most of the rest by Baley 15:13:08 ais523: no no, Giskard took a large part 15:13:15 in Robots of Dawn especially 15:13:21 oh, yes, right 15:13:27 I'd forgotten that because he was so subtle about it 15:13:46 you can effectively treat Giskard and Baley as a single entity there, I guess 15:13:53 GG seriously needs red shirts so we know who's going to die ;-) 15:14:00 and Giskard dies in R and E and explicitly leaves the world in Daneel's care 15:16:10 huh, your review site seemed to like The End of Eternity 15:16:14 *seems to 15:16:23 I actually didn't really like that one, I didn't find the setting that compelling 15:16:45 (apparently it's part of continuity but given that it manages to retcon all its own events internally, it doesn't really matter whether it is or not) 15:16:54 ais523: it's not MY review site. it's Jenkins' Guide. 15:16:57 It's a famous one 15:17:26 well, it's the one you linked to 15:17:29 I didn't mean to imply you wrote it 15:18:21 -!- freebot has joined. 15:19:08 what sort of bot uses the web interface? 15:19:21 maybe it isn't a bot at all 15:19:23 hi freebot! 15:20:00 hi undefined 15:20:06 yeah, sorry 15:20:11 um 15:20:28 ais523: I dunno 15:20:29 oh gah, this is Hofstader's reverse-CAPTCHA situation all over again, isn't it? 15:20:47 (when you're unsure whether something is a computer pretending to be a human, or a human pretending to be a computer pretending to be a human) 15:21:03 it's actually a very difficult task 15:21:36 Which web interface is that? Let me check how the cloaks work again 15:22:33 -!- web_jonas has joined. 15:22:59 web_jonas: you seem to be identically cloaked to freebot, with the exception of having a different IP 15:23:10 (the username appears to be the IP in hexadecimal) 15:23:32 This one is qwebirc, the one that has the worse interface and requires for a captcha and is ran by freenode themselves 15:23:57 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:24:54 And this one is kiwiirc, which has better interface, doesn't ask for a captcha, and can connect to any irc server, even one it doesn't know, if you just give it the hostname of the server. 15:25:35 Ok, so the freenode qwebirc has a cloak with "gateway/web/freenode/", a generic name as if freenode was trying very hard to suggest it's THE only web interface, 15:26:04 and the kiwi one is cloaked "gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com" which clearly has kiwiirc.com in its name 15:26:08 ok 15:26:12 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 15:26:14 shutting down... 15:26:15 -!- web_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 15:26:20 -!- freebot has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:26:36 If it's THE only web interface ran by freenode themselves, having "gateway/web/freenode" as the name doesn't sound too generic. 15:28:53 huh, freebot appears to be connecting from a hosting company in Croatia 15:28:59 which increases the chance that it actually is a bot 15:29:50 ais523: huh why? 15:30:15 I got the impression that it was a VPS or web hosting company 15:30:17 rather than a consumer ISP 15:30:30 which implies that either a bouncer's being used or the connection comes from a server 15:31:03 additionally, I'm not aware of any Croatians in the channel, but using a hosting company from another country is not that rare 15:32:03 there are VPSes in croatia? 15:32:38 I mean 15:32:42 hosts of vpses 15:33:15 why wouldn't there be? 15:35:14 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 15:35:55 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:39:13 Oh by the way 15:39:18 stupid question 15:40:17 Windows these days lets you type (almost) any unicode character from the keyboard by holding alt and entering its code in decimal on the numpad prefixed by a zero on the numpad. 15:40:43 But this doesn't help me, because I only remember the character codes in hexadecimal, and don't want to do a radix conversion in my head. 15:41:19 So I usually start Word, enter the character code in hexadecimal, press alt-x, which enters the character there, then copy-paste the character. 15:41:34 Is there a saner way to type arbitrary unicode characters on Windows? 15:42:52 I don't know of one, but I'm not an expert on Windows 15:43:24 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:46:11 autohotkey script? 15:46:38 using autohotkey to fix flaws in Windows is like using m4 to fix flaws in C 15:47:03 ephemerally pragmatic? 15:47:33 I don't know what autohotkey is. Before you tell me what it is, I have one utterly biased question. 15:47:36 I suppose you could emulate compose sequences too 15:48:52 Is it one of those things that react to my keypresses with a delay, like the explorer file delete dialog that uses the trash only if you aren't pressing shift at the time when the confirmation dialog box pops up, regardless of whether you pressed delete or shift-delete to delete the file? Like, if I use autohotkey to type characters, will my character appear out of sequence wrt other characters? 15:49:18 If it's a delayed thing then I don't want to know what it is. If it's not delayed but something like a proper input method, then you may tell me what it is. 15:50:19 this looks promising => http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/08/17/three-ways-to-enter-unicode-characters-in-windows/ 15:51:34 it says there's a magic registry key you can set and then windows has a builtin way. It doesn't mention which version of windows it applies to, probably because it's one of these blogs that never expects you to read anything but the latest entry. 15:52:00 It's from 2008 and has a screenshot with... um, is that windows xp skin? 15:53:02 web searched the registry key name mentioned there, leads here => http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_programs/how-to-insert-unicode-characters-like-arrows-using/349b7749-f04b-4ac9-b4b4-ec8461c6f4e5 15:55:34 http://superuser.com/q/47420/267786 too 16:01:24 `wisdom 16:01:26 molum//molum is the inverse function of ybden. 16:05:07 `` grep -lR // bin 16:05:10 bin/ploki \ bin/udcli \ bin/google \ bin/raw-url \ bin/noooooooodl: \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/bienvenue \ bin/learn \ bin/sled \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/emmental \ bin/roll \ bin/sprunge \ bin/js \ bin/mk \ bin/jousturl \ bin/quine \ bin/rot256 \ bin/randbin \ bin/en2sv \ bin/dis86 \ bin/etymology \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/hi \ bin/mislearn \ bin/slashl 16:05:21 `? mislearn 16:05:22 mislearn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:05:28 `cat bin/mislearn 16:05:29 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"tmflry/$topic" \ echo "Was lied to about '$topic': $1" 16:05:36 `quine 16:05:49 ah, hmm, // is used as an s/// terminator when deleting something 16:05:55 in addition to the mkx syntax 16:06:06 ​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ ls: cannot access ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 16:06:07 ais523: and the defined-or operator. 16:06:17 ybden: the learndb is mostly full of jokes 16:06:18 and integer division in some languages 16:06:23 we have a second learndb intended for facts 16:06:30 but it's controlled by `mislearn, `tmflry, etc., as a joke 16:06:55 I see 16:07:04 `cat bin/learn 16:07:04 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" 16:07:20 `ls tmflry 16:07:20 ​@ \ brainfuck \ c++ \ C++ \ cat \ esolang \ esolangs \ #esoteric \ fs \ hth \ mapole \ `mislearn \ mycology \ ntitai \ random number \ tdnh \ the meaning of life \ tomfoolery \ wiki \ wisdom 16:07:23 tomfoolery? 16:07:29 `? tomfoolery 16:07:31 tomfoolery is always factually inaccurate. always. 16:07:36 I see. 16:07:44 `? wisdom 16:07:45 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø? 16:08:03 `?? wisdom 16:08:03 wisdom is tomfoolery 16:08:09 `?? tomfoolery 16:08:10 just to add confusion, the databases draw from each other (in at least one direction) when they don't have anything else to say 16:08:10 tomfoolery is wisdom 16:08:14 `? war 16:08:14 A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age. 16:08:17 `? freedom 16:08:18 freedom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:24 `? slavery 16:08:25 slavery? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:25 `? peace 16:08:26 peace? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:27 `? make 16:08:27 make? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:30 so it's hard to know whether the result is true or not 16:08:36 `< ybden> tomfoolery?` was directed at the fact wisdomdb dir 16:08:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: <: not found 16:08:52 `?? random number 16:08:52 31099 16:08:53 `dowg war 16:08:54 `?? random number 16:08:55 19110 16:08:55 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-05-12 le/rn war/A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age. 16:08:58 `? random number 16:08:59 random number? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:09:15 `cat bin/list 16:09:15 `??? wisdom 16:09:16 date > share/conscripts; culprits share/conscripts | xargs -n 1 | awk '!x[$0]++' | xargs 16:09:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ???: not found 16:09:19 `cat bin/tmflry/'random number' 16:09:20 cat: bin/tmflry/'random number': No such file or directory 16:09:24 `` cat bin/tmflry/'random number' 16:09:25 cat: bin/tmflry/random number: No such file or directory 16:09:31 ehh 16:09:40 Hmm, list is now diaeresised. 16:09:54 Is that by design? 16:10:00 what? 16:10:14 shachaf: it's to prevent accidental pngs I think 16:10:18 *pings 16:10:25 Right. 16:10:26 although part of the fun of the old list was preventing it pinging you 16:10:30 by not being on it 16:10:33 `lïst 16:10:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lïst: not found 16:10:43 it was rare for anyone to trigger it anyway 16:10:52 because if you did, you'd be pinged every time anyone else did 16:11:05 I'm reminded a bit of mutual assured destruction but it isn't really 16:11:15 it's more like a ponzi scheme in reverse 16:11:27 `trap 16:11:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: trap: not found 16:11:32 `? trap 16:11:33 trap? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:11:33 like, when you join, everyone else in the scheme pays you some money 16:11:41 you get a fortune so long as you're the last person to join 16:11:53 `? list 16:11:54 list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun! 16:13:15 Is there a script that replaces 8-ball with a script that (gives the specific answer you chose and then replaces 8-ball with the original version of 8-ball so that it's hard to trace the cheating)? 16:13:21 no wait 16:13:31 `8-ball Is there a script that replaces 8-ball with a script that (gives the specific answer you chose and then replaces 8-ball with the original version of 8-ball so that it's hard to trace the cheating)? 16:13:32 I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions. 16:13:52 `8-ball SERIOUSLY? I made you, brother. 16:13:53 Cannot predict now. 16:14:35 does that thing ever give a non-joke answer? 16:14:36 `8-ball You painted over the original traditional messages (from the commercial version of you) that I painstakenly etched on your icosahedronal surface? 16:14:36 Yes definitely. 16:15:10 ais523: when I created it, it had the original set of 20 answers, from the commercial product, where 10 answers are yes, 5 are no, and 5 are other. 16:15:15 But someone changed it 16:15:45 if it's icosahedral, why is it called an 8-ball? 16:16:31 ais523: look at Wikipedia 16:17:14 ais523: the small icosahedral dice is inside a rolling cup which as a gimmick looks like an 8-ball from billiard 16:17:48 it also confuses mathematicians, who think of it as a a 3-ball 16:17:48 it's an american novelty item, I never saw once in real life, but it's popular, there are multiple scripts on the web emulating it 16:17:56 and even one story referencing it 16:18:11 (a parody) 16:18:37 `whoag 8-ball 16:18:38 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: whoag: not found 16:18:43 `höag 8-ball 16:18:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: höag: not found 16:18:59 `hg log 8-ball 16:19:01 hg: unknown command 'log 8-ball' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff diff r 16:19:11 `hg log bin/8-ball 16:19:12 hg: unknown command 'log bin/8-ball' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff di 16:19:21 meh, whatever 16:20:33 `` hg log bin/8-ball 16:20:35 changeset: 5643:56dcce63901b \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Jun 21 02:47:59 2015 +0000 \ summary: revert \ \ changeset: 4566:1b161db44445 \ user: HackBot \ date: Tue Apr 15 10:28:33 2014 +0000 \ summary: mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e \'s/data/share/\' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going t 16:20:36 I'm failling to load the Wikipedia article 16:20:39 `perl -e@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don't count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print@t 16:20:39 It is certainIt is decidedly soWithout a doubtYes definitelyYou may rely on itAs I see it, yesMost likelyOutlook goodYesSigns point to yesReply hazy try againAsk again laterBetter not tell you nowCannot predict nowConcentrate and ask againDon't count on itMy reply is noMy sources say noOutlook not so goodVery doubtful 16:20:42 this connection is somewhat unreliable 16:20:48 `perl -e@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don't count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print0+@t 16:20:49 No output. 16:20:59 `perl -e@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don't count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print 0+@t 16:20:59 20 16:21:12 `perl -e@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don't count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t] 16:21:12 Yes definitely 16:23:57 #``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];' 16:24:59 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >s echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done 16:25:00 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `>' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >s echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you n 16:25:50 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >s echo -n $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/R'; done 16:25:51 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `>' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >s echo -n $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/R'; done ' 16:26:12 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo 'eply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done 16:26:13 Didn't we already have that, with data in a separate directory? 16:26:13 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `>>' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo 'eply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done ' 16:26:43 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo -n 'eply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlo'; done 16:26:44 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `>>' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo -n 'eply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlo'; done ' 16:27:05 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo 'ok not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done 16:27:06 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `>>' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for s in bin/8{-,}ball; >>s echo 'ok not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done ' 16:27:12 `url share/8ballreplies 16:27:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/8ballreplies 16:27:24 That looks like a reasonably good list. 16:27:27 ah, it's complaining about the missing do, not the missing done 16:27:33 fizzie: but it's not the original list 16:28:12 I would recommend modifying it, then. 16:28:15 Instead of being redundant. 16:28:28 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; do >s echo -n $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''@t=split"/","It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Bet'; done 16:28:30 No output. 16:29:21 ``` for s in bin/8{-,}ball; do >>s echo 'ter not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concentrate and ask again/Don\x27t count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful";print$t[rand@t];'; done 16:29:23 No output. 16:29:30 You're writing to "s". 16:29:34 ` 8-ball are you as good as new? 16:29:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 16:29:36 ah right 16:29:39 I can't bash today 16:29:41 ``` rm s 16:29:43 No output. 16:29:51 maybe it's best I'm not overwriting it if I'm so bad now 16:29:57 I'll have to retry later 16:30:15 the 8-ball may be a gimmick, but eric schmidt has been quoted saying “most people don't want Google to answer their questions. They want Google to tell them what they should be doing next.” 16:31:41 When you retry, please just modify share/8ballreplies, that's why it's there. 16:32:10 fizzie: yes, I think I created it that way because it's almost too long in one line 16:39:12 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:39:23 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:40:50 Jafet: I don't want either, I normally want search engines to find me a web page that discusses a particular subject 16:41:10 or even a particular page that I might or might not know of the existence of, but can guess the existence of 16:41:32 (e.g. the official database for postcodes in the UK is something that I thought was highly likely to exist, and it in fact does, even though I didn't know it existed in advance) 16:48:47 http://people.csail.mit.edu/wjun/papers/sigtbd16.pdf 16:54:27 -!- Cale has joined. 16:58:32 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:05:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:17:52 <\oren\> hmm... i was thinking about how busybox has a single executable for lots of commands 17:21:08 <\oren\> what if you made a language that did that for most tasks 17:22:21 \oren\: I have an unpublished joke language that basically works like this: you give it an anarchy golf problem number 17:22:27 that has revealed programs 17:22:39 then it tries all the programs in the problem number on the user input and gives you the majority output 17:22:59 <\oren\> nice 17:23:14 this makes it very good at solving simple well-known problems, unless they're /so/ well-known that the timeout was set to infinity and there are no programs to download 17:24:06 <\oren\> heh 17:24:59 the reason this language is unpublished is that it really needs an interpreter 17:25:04 Many anagol problems are underspecified. :-( 17:25:23 (possible enhancement: remove programs that are tagged as cheating, give extra weight to programs that are tagged as genuine) 17:25:34 <\oren\> argh, my meeting was just resceduled 17:25:38 shachaf: but they tend to be inversely specified by the actual answers 17:28:22 <\oren\> why does schedule have a h in it 17:28:42 you mean why does it have a c in it hth 17:29:22 <\oren\> it should be skejule 17:29:42 no, it's pronounced with a "sh" at the beginning 17:29:50 <\oren\> no it isnt! 17:29:57 I think that varies by accent 17:30:21 also "j" is IPA ʒ 17:30:21 in some accents it likely starts with an actual sch phoneme (which is more common in German than in English) 17:30:31 I've heard both pronunciations I think 17:30:33 if you mean "dj" you should write that 17:32:17 <\oren\> /skɛdʒuːl/ 17:32:19 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 17:33:30 <\oren\> or maybe /skɛdʒuwʊl/ 17:33:40 Both pronounce are correct in Canadian. 17:34:16 In British is correct with "sh" and in American is correct without, and in Canadian both ways correct. 17:34:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:44:40 are you saying skedjul is not the british pronunciation? 17:51:11 "sch" is pronouned very similarly to "sh", and quite differently from "sk" 17:51:28 I'm not quite convinced it's identical to an "sh" though 17:58:04 Russian has щ and ш 17:58:11 I can hardly hear the difference between them. 18:06:51 ss-shedule maybe? 18:08:18 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:08:42 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:09:15 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:29:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:29:34 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:33:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:36:02 -!- ^v has joined. 18:45:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:45:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:49:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:07:16 -!- Reece` has joined. 19:08:35 -!- Reece` has quit (Client Quit). 19:19:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:23:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:42:56 -!- imode has joined. 19:56:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:23:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:58:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:09:37 `? oerjan 21:09:38 Your reverberated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 21:09:57 `slwd oerjan//s#reverberated#venerated# 21:09:59 wisdom/oerjan//Your venerated itymologist gracious octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 21:10:20 wisdom seems to be steadily making less sense as time goes on 21:11:23 's cause hackego is getting older. 21:17:46 `` hg identify --num 21:17:48 9385 21:17:58 `mkx bin/age//hg identify --num 21:18:00 bin/age 21:18:04 `age 21:18:05 9386 21:19:41 -!- ybden has changed nick to \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\. 21:20:07 -!- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ has changed nick to ybden. 21:23:01 leaning to the left? 21:23:24 I think \ is legal in nicks but / isn't 21:24:03 yeah 21:24:07 ais523: I tried that 21:26:09 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAaAAAAAaaAAAAaaaaaaa DDOSSED 21:31:58 -!- imode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:56:05 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:01:58 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:05:09 -!- godel has joined. 22:05:47 [wiki] [[D2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50027 * TuxCrafting * (+151) Created page with "D2 is a Brainfuck-like language with a 2D right and down unbounded memory. Specs and interpreter can be found [https://github.com/tuxcrafting/d2 here]" 22:14:20 -!- imode has joined. 22:16:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:17:28 -!- godel has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:22:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:39:25 hey 22:39:50 i need a function that maps the integers 1-64 22:39:53 to reals from 1.5 to 2 22:39:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:40:00 and it must be decreasing 22:40:16 y = 2 - (x / 32) 22:40:34 unless you need to hit both endpoints, but that seems unlikely given the problem description 22:40:39 wait 22:40:42 let me finish 22:40:43 err, backwards 22:40:47 y = 2 - (x / 128) 22:40:55 lemme finish è_é 22:41:11 16 * f(1) * f(2) * ... * f(64) >= 2^48 22:41:49 finished yet? 22:41:54 no 22:42:16 it doesn't make much sense to talk about derivatives, but it must start decreasing slowly and then decrease faster and faster 22:42:18 -fin- 22:43:10 actually it could go from 1 to 2 22:47:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:50:09 <\oren\> y = 2 - 1/(2^x) 22:50:35 <\oren\> wait that's increasing 22:51:00 -!- augur has joined. 22:51:30 <\oren\> y = 1.5 + 1/(2^(64-x))? 22:51:39 <\oren\> or something 22:53:54 thanks for the idea 22:55:40 * izalove scales the values a little bit 23:02:10 <\oren\> `` tcc -lm -run - <<<'double pow(double,double);int main(){int i;for(i=1;i<=64;i++)printf("%g ",1.5+1/pow(2,i));}' 23:02:11 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: tcc: command not found 23:02:17 <\oren\> ARGH 23:02:28 -!- imode has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:02:48 -!- imode has joined. 23:03:05 <\oren\> that's what I get for writing oneliners with tcc instead of perl 23:03:30 `! c double pow(double,double);int main(){int i;for(i=1;i<=64;i++)printf("%g ",1.5+1/pow(2,i));} 23:03:38 No output. 23:03:45 hmm 23:04:05 `! c int main(void){printf("Hello, world!");} 23:04:06 Hello, world! 23:04:27 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'for$i(1..64){print (1.5+1/pow(2,$i))}' 23:04:27 Undefined subroutine &main::pow called at -e line 1. 23:04:31 `! c int main(void){foo();printf("Hello, world!");} 23:04:32 No output. 23:04:33 \oren\: ** 23:04:37 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'for$i(1..64){print (1.5+1/(2**$i))}' 23:04:38 21.751.6251.56251.531251.5156251.50781251.503906251.5019531251.50097656251.500488281251.5002441406251.50012207031251.500061035156251.500030517578121.500015258789061.500007629394531.500003814697271.500001907348631.500000953674321.500000476837161.500000238418581.500000119209291.500000059604641.500000029802321.500000014901161.500000007450581.500000003 23:04:45 I guess `! c gives no output in the case of a link error? 23:04:48 `! c int main(void){foo();printf("Hello, world!"); 23:04:49 Does not compile. 23:04:54 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'for$i(1..64){print (1.5+1/(2**$i)) . "\n"}' 23:04:54 21.751.6251.56251.531251.5156251.50781251.503906251.5019531251.50097656251.500488281251.5002441406251.50012207031251.500061035156251.500030517578121.500015258789061.500007629394531.500003814697271.500001907348631.500000953674321.500000476837161.500000238418581.500000119209291.500000059604641.500000029802321.500000014901161.500000007450581.500000003 23:04:56 yes, seems about right 23:04:59 and it's probably missing an -lm somewhere 23:05:03 `cat ibin/c 23:05:04 ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file "./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp c" 23:05:06 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'for$i(1..64){print (1.5+1/(2**$i))," "}' 23:05:07 21.751.6251.56251.531251.5156251.50781251.503906251.5019531251.50097656251.500488281251.5002441406251.50012207031251.500061035156251.500030517578121.500015258789061.500007629394531.500003814697271.500001907348631.500000953674321.500000476837161.500000238418581.500000119209291.500000059604641.500000029802321.500000014901161.500000007450581.500000003 23:05:21 `cat ibin/interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:05:21 cat: ibin/interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: No such file or directory 23:05:25 `cat interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:05:26 ​#!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ echo >>"$2" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c++) 23:05:31 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'for$i(1..64){print ((1.5+1/(2**$i))." ");}' 23:05:32 2 1.75 1.625 1.5625 1.53125 1.515625 1.5078125 1.50390625 1.501953125 1.5009765625 1.50048828125 1.500244140625 1.5001220703125 1.50006103515625 1.50003051757812 1.50001525878906 1.50000762939453 1.50000381469727 1.50000190734863 1.50000095367432 1.50000047683716 1.50000023841858 1.50000011920929 1.50000005960464 1.50000002980232 1.50000001490116 1 23:05:33 `paste interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:05:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:05:48 ais523: All the C-running commands are broken in various ways. 23:06:02 <\oren\> just install tcc and be done with it 23:06:32 <\oren\> tcc does the right thing 23:07:02 `` sed -e "s/FLAGS='-std/FLAGS='-lm -std/" interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:07:02 ​#!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ echo >>"$2" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-lm -std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c 23:07:13 `` sed -i -e "s/FLAGS='-std/FLAGS='-lm -std/" interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 23:07:15 No output. 23:07:20 `! c double pow(double,double);int main(){int i;for(i=1;i<=64;i++)printf("%g ",1.5+1/pow(2,i));} 23:07:21 2 1.75 1.625 1.5625 1.53125 1.51562 1.50781 1.50391 1.50195 1.50098 1.50049 1.50024 1.50012 1.50006 1.50003 1.50002 1.50001 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 23:07:26 Today I found out about a contravariant functor but I am too ill to remember which 23:07:33 Something about affine varieties and algebraic sets 23:07:51 `! c printf("Hello, world!\n"); 23:07:52 Does not compile. 23:08:06 That's the newline problem, I think. 23:08:13 `! c printf("Hello, world!\\n"); 23:08:15 Hello, world! 23:08:47 now I'm trying to figure out what's C-unescaping the input 23:08:57 Well, the thing is, for macros you really need it to. 23:09:07 #define FOO bar \n something(); can't end up on one line. 23:09:15 presumably the wrapper that goes around gcccomp 23:09:45 the `! c command doesn't seem that broken to me, especially now I added the -lm 23:09:57 <\oren\> fizzie: or we could use a convention where say four spaces or more becomes a newline? 23:10:32 ais523: It still doesn't output any errors. 23:11:01 <\oren\> or we could get tcc and have proper control 23:11:06 fizzie: that's because it compiles two programs to see which works 23:11:39 ais523: That's not a good enough reason. 23:11:54 right, but it's hard to figure out which set of errors you'd want to show 23:11:56 or whether to show both 23:12:14 Personally, I think it should just use simple heuristics to decide which one to compile. 23:12:42 <\oren\> if main appears as symbol in code, compile with main? 23:12:57 you need a parser to figure that out, at least a rudimentary one 23:13:05 <\oren\> s/app/does not app/ 23:13:09 also I think it's a legal local variable name 23:13:23 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:13:27 `! c char *main = "Hello, world!"; puts(main); 23:13:28 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 308 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:13:38 hmm 23:13:53 `! c char *m = "Hello, world!"; puts(m); 23:13:55 Hello, world! 23:13:56 <\oren\> ais523: that ends up trying to execute the machine code "Hello, world" 23:14:07 \oren\: oh right, it's legal both ways roudn 23:14:10 wait, no it isn't 23:14:19 <\oren\> because main doesn't have to be a function ebcause fuck fuck fuck fuck 23:14:20 a puts call can't appear outside a function 23:14:31 so that would get the int main() { … } wrapper 23:14:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:14:59 `! c #include \nint main(void) { char *main = "Hello, world!"; puts(main); return 0; } 23:15:00 No output. 23:15:10 `! c #include \nint main(void) { char *m = "Hello, world!"; puts(m); return 0; } 23:15:11 No output. 23:15:35 Yeah, a fine example of a non-broken thing. 23:15:40 `! c int main(void) { char *m = "Hello, world!"; puts(m); return 0; } 23:15:41 Hello, world! 23:16:01 `! c int main(void) { char *main = "Hello, world!"; puts(main); return 0; } 23:16:02 Hello, world! 23:16:05 there we go 23:16:22 <\oren\> fizzie: you made me cough up a lung form laughing 23:16:50 Besides, wasn't there some case where the two-program thing failed to work because of GCC's nested functions? I think there was. 23:17:25 <\oren\> `! c char *main = "Hello, world!" 23:17:26 No output. 23:17:40 <\oren\> `! c char *main = "Hello, world!"; 23:17:42 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 308 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:18:08 <\oren\> wut 23:18:23 <\oren\> `! c char *main = "Hello, world!\\n"; 23:18:24 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 308 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:18:28 <\oren\> `! c char *main = "Hello, world!\\n" 23:18:31 No output. 23:18:47 \oren\: the version with no semicolon isn't valid as a program in its own right 23:18:59 Incidentally, the program char *main = "Hello, world!"; would generally execute the pointer's value as machine code, not the string literal's contents. 23:19:05 the wrapper adds a semicolon at the end (which is harmless if you provided one because ; is a valid command) 23:19:09 You would need char main[] = "Hello, world!"; for that. 23:20:28 `` echo 'char *main = "x";' | gcc -Wall -x c - -o /dev/null # a well-known warning 23:20:29 ​:1:7: warning: ‘main’ is usually a function [-Wmain] 23:20:50 fizzie: there's a blog with that name, isn't there? 23:20:56 Yes. 23:21:09 <\oren\> `! c char main[]='\xC3' 23:21:10 Does not compile. 23:21:16 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="\xC3" 23:21:19 No output. 23:21:20 ais523, I think it was kmc's?? 23:21:21 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="\xC3"; 23:21:22 No output. 23:23:44 <\oren\> I had to look up the opcode for RET 23:26:06 `! c char main[]="\xEB\xFE"; 23:26:17 that should be an infinite loop 23:26:37 No output. 23:26:42 and thus provide a different, easily observable result 23:26:42 that seemed to work 23:27:36 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:28:25 `` uname -a 23:28:26 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 23:29:44 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="";\n#ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error\n#endif 23:29:45 Does not compile. 23:29:53 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="";\n#ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error hllo\n#endif 23:29:54 Does not compile. 23:30:15 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error hllo\n#endif 23:30:17 Does not compile. 23:30:31 The official UHS catalog http://www.uhs-hints.com/cgi-bin/update.cgi does not seem to use ETag or Last-Modified, so it can't cache the data. I don't know if any HTTP server supports feature tags. 23:30:37 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error hllo\n#endif int main(){return 0} 23:30:39 Does not compile. 23:30:41 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error hllo\n#endif int main(){return 0;} 23:30:42 Does not compile. 23:30:46 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n#error hllo\n#endif\n int main(){return 0;} 23:30:47 Does not compile. 23:31:09 <\oren\> `! c #define foo bar\n int main(){return 0;} 23:31:11 No output. 23:31:32 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif\n int main(){return 0;} 23:31:33 No output. 23:31:40 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif\n 23:31:41 Does not compile. 23:32:03 <\oren\> `! c #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif\n int main(){return 0;} 23:32:05 No output. 23:32:18 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="";\n #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif 23:32:19 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 308 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:32:25 <\oren\> there 23:33:06 <\oren\> basically, you can use #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif to prevent the one that wraps it from being done 23:33:19 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="\xC#";\n #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif 23:33:20 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 308 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:33:24 what does TMP_MAX do anyway? 23:33:26 <\oren\> `! c char main[]="\xC3";\n #ifdef TMP_MAX\n #error hllo\n #endif 23:33:28 No output. 23:33:33 The (currently unreleased) FreeUHS catalog utility though will pay attention to ETag and Last-Modified if those headers are present, will handle redirects, a 203 response, and the character set of the response. 23:33:47 <\oren\> ais523: dunno, but I know it's a macro defined in stdio.h 23:34:04 <\oren\> "This macro is the maximum number of unique filenames that the function tmpnam can generate. 23:34:23 <\oren\> what a useless number 23:35:30 <\oren\> `! c printf("%d\\n",TMP_MAX); 23:35:33 238328 23:35:42 <\oren\> what a random number! 23:35:47 <\oren\> `! c printf("%f\\n",TMP_MAX); 23:35:48 0.000000 23:36:14 <\oren\> ok so it is a integer 23:36:34 `factor 238328 23:36:34 238328: 2 2 2 31 31 31 23:36:38 it's not that random 23:37:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:38:37 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam()); 23:38:38 Does not compile. 23:38:45 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(nULL)); 23:38:46 Does not compile. 23:38:49 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(NULL)); 23:38:50 ​/tmp/fileO0NkhR 23:38:55 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(NULL)); 23:38:58 ​/tmp/filedPJRrU 23:39:00 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(NULL)); 23:39:02 ​/tmp/filenWlycS 23:39:04 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(NULL)); 23:39:06 ​/tmp/file4SHPZS 23:39:09 <\oren\> `! c printf("%s\\n",tmpnam(NULL)); 23:39:11 ​/tmp/file3iYeKn 23:39:24 `! c char main[] = "hhi!\\0@\xb7\x01""1\xd2\xb2\x03""1\xc0\xb0\1H\x89\xe6\x0f\x05X\xc3"; 23:39:26 hi! 23:39:52 <\oren\> so what it's 26 letters, in two cases, and 10 numbers 23:39:56 <\oren\> weak 23:40:21 <\oren\> they oughta use any byte that's usable in a filename 23:40:22 fizzie: how much trouble did you go to to write that? :-D 23:40:31 also we so need a `! shellcode 23:40:34 @messages-gold 23:40:35 boily said 11h 38m 6s ago: hellørjan. tdh. t! 23:40:46 although I'm not sure what format the shellcode would be in 23:40:48 ais523: However much trouble there can fit between the \xc3 one and that. :) 23:41:06 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: Fing). 23:41:11 I did run into a couple of things, like having to do \\0 instead of \0 because GCC doesn't like 0 bytes in string literals. 23:41:23 * oerjan thinks this is a day for quick log skimming 23:41:37 It was surprisingly game for all other kinds of control characters though. 23:41:55 (Assuming those are getting expanded by the same thing that does \n and \0.) 23:42:39 <\oren\> `! c printf("\\xc3"); 23:42:40 ​à 23:42:51 <\oren\> `! c printf("\xc3"); 23:42:53 ​à 23:42:56 <\oren\> yup 23:43:29 -!- ybden has joined. 23:43:30 Well, that's not exactly proof positive. If the expander left \xc3 untouched, the C compiler would've seen identical sources for those. 23:43:53 `! c printf("%zu", sizeof "\xc3"); 23:43:54 2 23:44:02 `! c printf("%zu", sizeof "\\xc3"); 23:44:03 2 23:44:07 <\oren\> `! c printf('\xc3'); 23:44:08 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 310 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 23:45:07 <\oren\> `! c printf("\x22); 23:45:08 Does not compile. 23:45:45 <\oren\> `! c printf("\x22"); 23:45:46 ​" 23:45:53 <\oren\> heh 23:45:54 Hm, that's a bit more convincing. 23:46:20 `! c printf("\042"); 23:46:20 -!- Cale has joined. 23:46:21 Does not compile. 23:46:26 `! c printf("foo\042); 23:46:27 foo 23:46:37 So no \x, but yes for octal escapes. 23:46:48 <\oren\> is \x a gnu extension? 23:47:08 no 23:47:30 -!- centrinia has joined. 23:47:34 <\oren\> hmm, maybe the expander is some ad hoc program then 23:47:49 <\oren\> `! c printf("\x22\"); 23:47:49 Not in C, but maybe in printf(1). 23:47:50 Does not compile. 23:48:03 At least I don't see it in POSIX. 23:48:16 it oculd also be echo -e 23:48:22 *could 23:48:26 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:48:29 I doubt it's printf(1) because % signs would screw that up 23:48:31 <\oren\> `` echo -e '\x22' 23:48:32 ​" 23:48:37 `! c printf("%s", "Hello, world!"); 23:48:38 Hello, world! 23:49:01 ais523: Well, I mean, printf "%b" "$@" or some such. 23:49:22 s/@/*/ 23:49:40 `` printf "%b" "n\nt\tx\x22o\042e" 23:49:41 n \ tx"o"e 23:49:56 printf %b seems to understand both hex and octal escapes 23:50:03 Not the POSIX one, though. 23:50:12 But yeah, HackEgo's does. 23:50:14 `` env POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 printf "%b" "n\nt\tx\x22o\042e" 23:50:15 n \ tx"o"e 23:50:20 hmm 23:50:33 "The interpretation of a followed by any other sequence of characters is unspecified", so it's arguably POSIXLY_CORRECT to do that. 23:51:27 huh, \c is a pretty weird escape 23:51:54 is it even possible to define what that would do in a C source file? I guess it'd just end the file right there, closing any balanced groups that need closing 23:53:20 <\oren\> `! c printf("\u0022"); 23:53:21 Does not compile. 23:53:43 <\oren\> `` printf '%b' '\u0022' 23:53:43 ​" 23:53:58 <\oren\> intresting 23:54:21 so, is printf(1) Turing-complete? I know printf(3) is 23:54:35 (you use %n exploits in order to get it to overwrite its own internal state)