2016-09-01: 00:02:12 I'm thinking about extending http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3920 with (a) a more consensus-based system (rather than a single anomalous objection preventing the marriage, the entire assemblage must agree- so even if one person is 5 sigma against this marriage, if the other people lean towards it more than average then it is canceled out because people anti-object) and (b) an additional "trust factor" that allows the couple to 00:02:12 acknowledge that the groom's alcoholic brother Jeff's opinions really don't matter to them as much as the Bride's [kindly old Mother who's bravely fighting a terminal liver cancer so she can see her daughter married]'s opinion 00:02:28 The system works like this 00:03:08 Each guest to the wedding is entered into a database and associated with one party (either the bride or the groom) 00:03:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:05:43 (+1s, by the way, are not permitted to object; people likely to go together are issued a "joint invitation" that serves essentially as 2 invitations without +1 capabilities OR as a single ticket with one permitted +1, rather than issuing one of them a standard invitation under the expectation that the other one will be their +1) 00:07:08 -!- powerOfTwo has joined. 00:08:21 Prior to the wedding, the bride and groom are taken into separate rooms and given a list of guests. For each guest, they assign that guest a trust rating (any nonnegative real number will do). Each party also has the option to mark guests associated with the other party as "null" or "mirror", which is basically saying "assign me at the same trust rating as my prospective spouse" 00:09:23 or, you know, they can just give a fuck about objections 00:09:38 myname: I'm humorously doing advanced statistics for weddings 00:09:44 ~advanced 00:11:12 (Let G be the set of all guests, G_B be the set of all guests associated with the bride, G_F be the set of all guests associated with the groom, T_B(g) be the bride's trust ratings (T_B : G -> R), and T_F(g) be the groom's trust ratings (id)) 00:12:24 (note here that we're assuming a heterosexual marriage; homosexual marriages follow the same process, but should likely use a separate database of past objections for the time being, given the stigma) 00:12:42 (group marriages, I have no idea what to do, but it'd likely be similar) 00:15:34 Next, T_B(g) and T_F(g) are normalized to 100 with a standard deviation of 15 00:16:35 (call these T'_B(g) and T'_F(g)) 00:17:09 Let T(g) = (T'_B(g)+T'_F(g))/2, which represents overall trust 00:18:38 T_mean is the mean of T(g) forall g in G 00:19:09 Then, at the part of the wedding ceremony where objections are given, each eligible guest submits an objection in the interval [0,1] 00:20:19 Call the objection of guest g O(g) 00:22:16 The standard wedding objection is calculated (take the output of this algorithm at all previous weddings, average them, subtract each individual wedding's result from the average, square these, divide by the total number of weddings, take the square root) 00:24:20 For each guest g, find T(g)*O(g)^2, sum these values, divide by T_mean*|G|, take the square root 00:24:40 Call this TO (Total Objection) 00:25:06 Submit TO to the server for consideration in future weddings 00:25:24 With the earlier-found Standard Wedding Objection SO 00:26:04 And the Wedding Objection Standard Deviation WOSD 00:26:09 See if TO-SO≥WOSD 00:26:31 And that's my badly-statisticated text wall 00:27:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 00:34:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:37:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:39:39 Kayryluu kerjanch! 00:40:22 coily! 00:41:24 QUINTHELLOPIA! 00:42:49 arghoily 00:43:43 I kept the "yr" theme from yesterday ^^ 00:43:55 ENOTHELPING 00:44:21 doesn't seem to have vowel harmony... 00:44:29 hint: transliterated. 00:44:47 from cyrillic? 00:44:54 yup. 00:45:30 hm but can y be a back vowel, otherwise i'd still say no vowel harmony. 00:45:32 is it one of those dying azerbaijani languages? 00:45:34 or wait 00:46:15 hm caucasian you mean? 00:46:33 i wouldn't know those, anyway :( 00:46:44 like Udi--only like 6600 recorded speakers 00:46:56 i'm just wondering if it could be a turkish language. 00:47:10 it is a Turkic language. 00:47:13 ooh 00:47:20 hoily 00:47:27 oohoily? 00:47:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:48:13 hm i can rattle off some names that i'm not sure whether are turkic or indo-aryan 00:48:24 hoily shit ;P 00:48:29 turkmen, uzbek or such 00:48:47 (i.e. those ex-cccp states) 00:48:59 not turkmen, not uzbek. 00:49:07 ooh or kazakh 00:49:33 * oerjan might not be spelling them correctly, anyway 00:50:43 not kazakh! 00:51:14 kazakh sounds like a hacking cough 00:51:41 azeri wasn't _officially_ mentioned yet, i think 00:52:21 not azeri. 00:52:38 i may be out of plausibly turkic language names :( 00:53:02 it's Kyrgyz. 00:53:08 dran 00:53:11 quintopia: it really sounds like a cough. /qɑˈzɑq/ 00:53:16 the one state i forgot :P 00:53:54 nah kazakh is all apples 00:56:51 boily: i'm pretty sure either the cyrillic or the transliteration on omniglot's page is misspelled 00:57:14 (the y and r are swapped) 00:57:17 ah fungot. 00:57:17 boily: sorry if i seem brusque, but it doesn't rank very high on the richter scale? :) maybe its a charity fnord" 00:57:34 fungot: t'es pas brusque, juste un fungot. 00:57:34 boily: how'd you do ( eval2...) with ( a c d) evaluate to zero when serialized)) 01:00:11 Wow, charity fnords 01:00:29 -!- Kaynato has joined. 01:03:13 How about first person narration, but using first-person plural pronouns ("we", "us") 01:03:47 * oerjan finds a kyrgyz word кайың on wiktionary, but its meaning is "birch" 01:04:33 Oh, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheVirginSuicides does that 01:04:52 hm кеч is evening 01:05:20 hppavilion[1]: have you ever read math papers those are like that hth 01:05:40 oerjan: Well yeah, but they're also anti-fiction 01:05:50 (as opposed to non-fiction or fiction) 01:06:38 (anti-fiction is purer than non-fiction in that anti-fiction is definitely, 100%, provably objectively true, whereas non-fiction is laced with opinions and point-of-view bias) 01:06:41 math is fictional. ask any mathematician hth 01:11:09 confirmed 01:11:50 but at least it's a fiction that's more consistent with humanity's perception of the behavior of the universe than any other fictions out there 01:12:08 i'll take "math says so" over "god says so" any day of the week 01:12:30 i find a claim that кайрылуу means "case", and that has more google hits than the original spelling. 01:12:53 boily: i'm starting to suspect that omniglot entry is nonsense :P 01:13:28 it has кеч! 01:13:40 indeed, but the other words seems dubious. 01:13:43 *-s 01:13:58 hm maybe i should google the whole phrase. 01:16:01 unswapped has 382 hits, swapped 8. 01:18:09 the first became 29 after flipping pages. 01:18:45 it's so few you could suspect them all to come from the same flawed source. 01:19:50 fungot: which languages do you speak? 01:19:51 boily: i think that syntactic environments are _much_ more easily expressed with one type of oo 01:19:58 oerjan: that wouldn't surprise me at all. 01:20:12 fungot: oo oo ooooooo ooo ō ooo? 01:20:12 boily: i could be wrong, but lisppaste is at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ display/ 4532 01:21:15 fungot: i'm pretty sure boily's line wasn't lisp. 01:21:16 oerjan: calamari's here. it's not the only barrier, if it somehow clears those two hw banging instructions, that bound instruction is likely to be that 01:22:42 fungot: oooh, calamari! calamari is delicious. 01:22:42 boily: no, sorry, heh :) well, i'm with jeffie there. ( irc limitations) 01:22:43 otoh the phrases in omniglot are provided by someone with an appropriate sounding name... 01:22:52 fungot: yes it is. 01:22:52 boily: might i ask what this is doing here 01:23:01 (Chyngyz Dzhumaliev) 01:23:03 fungot: it is doing being flavourful hth 01:23:04 boily: i'm also wondering whether perhaps other browsers are a bit less than males can get pregnant with some caos 01:23:07 -!- powerOfTwo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:23:11 oerjan: sounds legit. 01:23:57 boily: i don't calamari wants you to eat him, otoh he hasn't been here in a long while. 01:24:38 *don't think 01:24:57 * oerjan thinks the fnords are stealing his words 01:24:57 * boily tripped on oerjan's sentence. brain sprain. 01:25:15 boily: SOWWY 01:25:20 OKAY 01:27:18 fungot: haven't you ever wished to swap fnords and fjords, maybe just for a day? 01:27:18 boily: xhtml doesn't render portably. hence the slowness in modern machines is due to the choice to use c++ analogies) 01:27:21 I think we need to make Greece an independent country 01:27:46 hppavellon[1]. eh? 01:28:01 Wait, fuck 01:28:07 s/.*// 01:28:14 boily: wikitravel suggests the more logical (given the other entries in omniglot) Kutmanduu kechingiz menen. 01:28:29 I think we need to tell Greece that we're making Lesbos an independent country 01:30:15 boily: i think fnord should be inflected the same as icelandic fjord, anyway. 01:30:32 hppavilion[1]: i think they like to spell it Lesvos these days, for obvious reasons. 01:30:54 oerjan: Damn. 01:31:22 Well, time to find a dictionary genie 01:31:41 Lesvian (n): A female who is attracted to females 01:31:51 fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar... 01:31:54 `addquote I think we need to make Greece an independent country 01:31:56 1288) I think we need to make Greece an independent country 01:32:08 oerjan: Hey, I never said that 01:32:22 yes you did. 01:32:30 oerjan: No, I didn't 01:32:52 I am of the opinion that using s/// isn't just correct a mistake- it undoes it 01:33:06 Once s/// has been used, the mistake is erased from all of time and space 01:33:12 i am of the opposite opinion hth 01:33:18 shh... is okay now... you will be PDFed... 01:34:02 hppavilion[1]: anyway, you are now in the quotes in the proud tradition of itidus hth 01:34:08 `quote itidus 01:34:09 394) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 415) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 416) itidus20: i s 01:34:46 Wat? 01:34:57 Was itidus20 constantly stoned? 01:35:02 `quote matrix of solidity 01:35:02 240) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 01:35:09 hppavilion[1]: we have no disproof of that hth 01:37:08 fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar... <-- no, it's more glorious than that. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fj%C3%B6r%C3%B0ur 01:40:14 I couldn't have dreamt it better. 01:40:57 i know right? 01:44:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:46:49 -!- augur has joined. 01:50:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:58:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:02:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GENERATIONAL CHICKEN). 02:05:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:11:29 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:11:35 kmc linked to this: http://inutile.club/estatis/falso/ 02:13:01 the best thing about Falso is that it is consistent 02:18:42 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:19:33 How can it be consistent if everything is true? 02:20:56 zzo38, that's easy to prove, just use the axiom 02:25:02 -!- Ashura has joined. 02:25:31 Hello 02:25:53 Hi Ashura 02:27:48 `welcome Ashura 02:27:49 Ashura: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:28:58 Javascript quine: !function $(){console.log("!" + $ + "()")}() 02:30:12 It is work 02:30:22 nice 02:30:23 I don't know if a quine is possible in Bugmaker. 02:32:02 Instead of writing "SET X = 1 + 1", you'd have to write "DO SET THE VARIABLE NAMED X = EXACTLY 1 + 1 NOW". 02:35:55 Let's see if we can make a quine with the standard TAVERN compiler? (It is a program I wrote but I did not intend to make a quine out of it) 02:37:06 (To see if it can be done without having the program read its own source file at compile time) 02:37:42 <\oren\> `unicode STAR 02:37:42 U+0001 \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal:  \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0086 \ UTF-8: c2 86 UTF-16BE: 0086 Decimal: † \ † \ Category: Cc (Ot 02:43:02 Try to run THIS: ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++. 02:45:23 -!- Trey13 has joined. 02:49:38 -!- Trey13 has left. 02:51:56 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++. 02:52:01 Ash ...out of time! 02:52:06 oops 02:52:20 `! bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++. 02:52:51 Ash 02:52:55 Ashura: seems a bit heavy 02:53:10 is it supposed to write more than 3 letters 02:53:42 `echo hi 02:53:42 hi 02:54:35 `cat ibin/bf 02:54:36 ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$I_CMD" | sed 's/.*bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW 02:56:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:56:23 `` \! 'bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.' | ord 02:56:54 No output. 02:56:57 hmph 03:03:19 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:03:24 Ash ...out of time! 03:03:36 * oerjan has no idea why that would timeout. 03:04:08 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:04:09 Asheb1 03:04:20 hm curious 03:04:33 i think there's a bug, but it still shouldn't timeout. 03:04:49 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:05:38 now what. 03:05:43 where do we go from here 03:05:45 ^echo hi 03:06:08 i think fungot has trouble :( 03:06:58 Asheb1 03:06:58 hi hi 03:06:58 oerjan: ( fun with scope!), and the " include " prescheme.h"" line is not. 03:07:04 ah 03:07:17 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:07:17 Asheb1 03:08:11 `unidecode .[—>+<]> 03:08:12 ​[U+002E FULL STOP] [U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+2014 EM DASH] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+003C LESS-THAN SIGN] [U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] 03:08:32 EM DASH 03:08:40 Ashura: THAT'S EVIL 03:08:47 hm... 03:08:55 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[-->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:08:55 Ash1.• 03:09:04 ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[--->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++. 03:09:04 Ashura 03:09:07 there you go 03:09:53 Ashura: your --- got turned into an em dash by some too-clever editor, me thinks. 03:11:50 -!- Ashura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:12:29 ಠ_ಠ 03:13:50 my curse of bad timing hits again. now food -> 03:17:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:22:24 Is there an alt-left? 03:23:39 "Liberal conservatism is a political ideology combining conservative policies with liberal stances" 03:25:13 So... "The gays should be allowed to get married, and if President, I promise to get Congress to pass a law defining marriage as between one man, one woman, with additional taxes every year the mother isn't Pregnant or actively raising a child under the age of 4, and both must be virgins" 03:28:09 there is not an alt-left 03:29:38 "Traditionalist Liberalism" 03:30:00 alercah: Wait, what about the SJWs? 03:30:35 alt-right is a specific group of people who self-identify 03:30:47 it's not an "academic" (read: outside) term 03:31:07 Ah, yes 03:31:44 alercah: Well also, the "alt-right" is a branch of the Right with certain distinguishing characteristics 03:32:06 So the alt-left would be a part of the left with similar (or analogous) characteristics 03:32:18 such as racism? 03:32:34 <\oren\> alt-right used to be a tiny group of twitter trolls that grew out of gay nazis and gamergate 03:32:35 Yes 03:32:44 Bah1 03:32:47 *Bah! 03:32:54 I was more-or-less a fan of gamergate 03:33:02 (at least, the general gist of it) 03:33:24 <\oren\> now that hillary has mentioned them on a national stage, they are becoming a giant group that will influence american politics for yers to come 03:33:34 gamergate was kind of ok when it was about ethics in journalism 03:33:39 the moment it wasn't it should have died 03:33:49 (that is, the moment it was revealed it was false) 03:33:54 alercah: Yeah, pretty much 03:34:47 <\oren\> hillary mentioning "alt-right" on a national stage was giant blunder imo, because now the trump voters have a label that they can carry even if trump loses 03:36:05 <\oren\> it was equivalent to creating a viral meme against your own ideology 03:36:15 <\oren\> huge blunder 03:36:32 The alt-right is associated with white nationalism, white supremacism, antisemitism, right-wing populism, nativism, and the neoreactionary movement 03:36:47 <\oren\> and anti-feminism 03:37:09 Hey, I'm anti-feminist and I'm NOT alt-right 03:37:45 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: anyway, the alt right will grow to just mean people who voted for trump in this election 03:37:47 (assuming feminists in this context mean third wavers. Classical (first-wave, maybe second-wave) feminism is cool.) 03:38:21 So the alt-left would be overly multicultural/diversity-yay (not to the point of "yeah, diversity is cool", but more "if your thing isn't diverse enough you're a bad person"- affirmative action and such) 03:38:36 <\oren\> or maybe a raaction to that 03:39:00 White responsibilitism (or whatever), which is "today's whites are responsible for our ancestors oppressing today's blacks ancestors, and should have to pay reparation 03:39:03 " 03:39:34 antisemitism becomes... not sure, yelling "islamophobia" whenever someone criticizes Islam? 03:39:53 -!- FreeFull has quit. 03:40:26 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: keep in mind that alt-right isn't a more extreme version of right 03:40:37 right-wing populism into... I guess the "if you don't let people freely immigrate from the middle east you're a racist" 03:40:48 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it rejects many aspects of normal american right-wing 03:41:14 \oren\: It's the right, rotated 15 to 30 degrees clockwise, I think? 03:41:16 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: for example, the alt-right are pro-gay rights 03:41:22 Oh, really? 03:41:31 Wait, I thought they were trump supporters... 03:41:43 I thought this was libertarians... 03:41:58 <\oren\> yes, one of their main proponents is a certain gay reporter named milo yiannopoulos aka "@nero" 03:42:12 Ah, yes, milo yiannopoulos 03:42:37 Not entirely agreeable, but a lot of the people against him (going around and tearing down posters for his events) are worse 03:43:05 And I guess right-wing populism also becomes "the status quo is necessarily bad" 03:43:15 Preserving the status quo isn't a bad thing when you have a utopia 03:44:19 Nativism becomes... I guess "immigrants should have a favored status to native citizens", but I don't think even the SJWs have that... 03:45:55 Huh, yeah, I share about... 40% of conflicted opinions with him? 03:46:52 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bindel 03:46:53 Wow 03:47:13 She has an organization that "helps women who have been prosecuted for killing violent male partners." 03:47:20 I mean, sure, but what if the genders are inverted? 03:48:50 yeah abusive relationships are one of the few cases where there's actual legitimate sexism in favour of women 03:49:14 iirc they cut roughtly equally both ways 03:54:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:03:46 Yeah 04:04:24 I seem to remember hearing that the Violence Against Women Act established that law enforcement has to use a specific test to determine action in domestic abuse calls 04:04:33 And it assumes the guilt of a man, innocence of a woman 04:04:41 But I've never been able to find such a thing 04:05:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:05:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:22:45 "8) NONEXCLUSIVITY.—Nothing in this title shall be construed 04:22:46 to prohibit male victims of domestic violence, dating 04:22:46 violence, sexual assault, and stalking from receiving benefits 04:22:46 and services under this title. 04:22:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:08:29 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:38:28 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:41:22 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 05:51:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:09:05 Poe's law is kind of stupid 06:09:15 I mean, people can identify satire when they see it online 06:09:19 People aren't THAT stupid 06:09:43 it is 100% possible to troll so hard that nobody notices 06:12:17 I am not so sure of either 06:12:39 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:15:04 i'll just assume hppavilion[1] is applying poe's law to itself. 06:16:23 also, i thought the point was that it is 100% possible to have so crazy really opinions that everybody suspects you're doing satire. 06:16:30 *real 06:16:34 -!- lynn_ has joined. 06:17:16 yes, which is functionally very similar to having really crazy satire and everybody suspecting you have really crazy opinions 06:17:21 you know, i'm starting to tire of how irssi shows only part of the line i'm writing, so i keep making these garden path errors. 06:17:35 oerjan: Well, that's a possible Corollary to Poe's law, but it doesn't directly follow 06:17:56 hppavilion[1]: it's not a corollary, it's a lemma that's part of its proof hth 06:18:04 Is it? 06:18:09 I guess it could be 06:18:45 We must also assume that trolls are indistinguishable from genuine believers beyond content (so trolls don't just have linguistic flags or somesuch) 06:19:09 heh 06:19:17 that's not always the case 06:20:17 many people troll without enough depth of knowledge to be convincing. 06:21:04 What sufficiently advanced thing is indistinguishable from /dark/ magic? 06:21:24 light magic, duh 06:21:37 * Hoolootwo poofs 06:21:38 (Actuarial science?) 06:21:51 hppavilion[1]: grey goo hth 06:22:21 When I build world-eating nanobots, I will make sure they are hot pink 06:22:25 No one will ever see it coming 06:22:35 also, artificial black holes. 06:22:43 that's pretty dark. 06:25:59 except the people here will see it coming 06:26:04 you have to kill us first 06:27:57 just spread a virus that modifies color vision first 06:28:02 * hppavilion[1] reaches for his swatter, but then realized he is not oerjan 06:28:15 * hppavilion[1] prays he didn't mix up oerjan and \oren\ again 06:28:40 <\oren\> you didnt 06:28:49 * oerjan has no idea how people mix us up, anyway. 06:29:20 maybe you have nearly identically-pronounced names 06:29:39 as long as you don't speak english hth 06:29:54 <\oren\> ❄ping 06:29:54 <\oren\> pong 06:30:34 yeah 06:30:45 you mean as long as you _do_ speak english. 06:30:56 One is an oer*n and the other is an ore*n 06:31:50 No, "or-en" and "oh-er-jan (yan?)" are pretty different in English 06:31:59 But everone on this channel speaks english 06:32:05 (Well, except for the Venezuelans) 06:32:23 I pronounce internet people's names as if they're German and I have no idea why 06:32:35 my first language is english so that's super weird 06:32:39 Hoolootwo: I just don't read them out loud, and pronunciation stays in my head 06:32:47 Ah, that is pretty weird 06:33:30 yeah, that too, but I pronounce them in my head (or something?) 06:33:31 (people sometimes pronounce "hppavilion1" as "hap-pavilion one"; it should be pronounced "H. P. pavilion one" 06:34:22 you'd have to know about Hewlett-Packard to get it right on the first try 06:34:53 "This year there are no rules. There are, however, a whole bunch of brutal laws, traditions, commandments, and decrees, plus some rules." 06:35:06 Hoolootwo: Yeah, and no one will know about that soon 06:35:15 The business will die, and I'll swoop in and buy the trademark 06:36:19 hmm, I should buy their calculator division 06:36:26 apparently still a thing? 06:41:36 i'd recommend getting their addition and multiplication too 06:42:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:45:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:46:47 -!- augur has joined. 06:49:15 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:53:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:53:48 -!- augur has joined. 07:01:46 <\oren\> I wonder what will happen if I do this: 07:02:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:03:11 Apparently nothing 07:03:45 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276"' 07:03:46 ​￾ 07:03:49 (Never think about kid's TV too much. I tried to figure out how the name "Uncle Grandpa" works.) 07:04:39 (your parents would need to be an uncle/niece or aunt/nephew pair, with UG the sibling of one and the parent of the other) 07:04:43 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276\302\244"' 07:04:43 ​￾¤ 07:05:08 <\oren\> apparently irssi is unaware that FFFE isn't a valid character 07:05:45 <\oren\> So I will need a glyph for it in my font 07:07:37 it is a "non-character" but still valid 07:18:36 hppavilion[1]: my uncle once was married to my aunt's boyfriend's daughter, that _almost_ makes my aunt both aunt and grandma to some of my cousins hth 07:18:56 -!- Froox has joined. 07:20:43 oh and i guess her boyfriend was both uncle and grandpa, then. 07:21:00 (almost. i don't think they got married.) 07:21:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:21:33 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 07:21:33 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:22:00 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:22:13 -!- atehwa has joined. 07:22:22 -!- ineiros has joined. 07:27:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:28:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:37:40 writing a sort(1) is hard x.x 07:37:44 the key part 07:45:22 -!- keemyb has joined. 07:59:48 -!- carado has joined. 08:05:35 izabera: with tons of options? 08:05:39 or just the buffering scheme? 08:06:45 I believe GNU sort (and probably others) is using mergesort with a certain amount of data buffered for the potentially faster algorithm 08:08:01 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/sort.c ...and holy cow it's a lot of code 08:08:55 well, external sorting... perallel sorting... lots of code to support various key comparisons... it all adds up 08:09:09 (just looking at the manpage) 08:09:22 Oh god 08:09:26 I just learned about Democratic White House High School AU, 08:09:27 the annoying part is that each key can be sorted indipendently 08:09:34 why haven't I used sort -h 08:09:34 It looks like it was on Livejournal, and I can't access it 08:09:42 But the idea is amazing(ly funny) 08:09:48 like, you can sort key 1 numerically, then one alphabetically in reverse order, etc 08:09:49 It's the real world, but in a high school setting 08:10:29 and e.g. you can do -k1.4,1.7n 08:10:40 which sorts numerically on the first key from character 4 to 7 08:10:56 so you have a key description and an interpreter for it... perhaps 70 lines of code in addition to the basic comparisons? 08:10:58 (changing the idea a bit for more funny), typical politicians are students, the Media forms teachers ("Who do you have for FTFO?" "Mr. Stewart") 08:11:32 int-e: the rest of my sort is ~130 lines so adding 70 is a lot 08:12:20 (Teachers might be former presidents...) 08:12:26 US government in a high school. I would love that. 08:12:40 don't forget to sort according to the current locale 08:12:47 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I should join the school's student government. As Secretary of Defence. ) 08:14:47 hppavilion[1], my uni's SU once had a pirate president 08:15:21 what's an SU? 08:15:37 super user 08:17:01 special unitary group 08:17:56 Student Union 08:21:04 and the most boring answer award goes to... 08:23:12 The Soviet Union! 08:23:14 Taneb invented SU9N0 08:23:48 Er, SU(n) 08:25:54 -!- augur has joined. 08:27:20 izabera, it's not that boring, it used to have a pirate president 08:29:11 pirate as in installing photoshop or as in one piece? 08:30:21 Closer to the latter 08:31:11 maybe closer to eight pieces? 08:35:38 https://youtu.be/S3a7Q9GowoQ?t=27 08:43:01 Apparently he was fairly good as student union presidents go 08:46:08 their acting could use some improvements 08:51:03 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/keystroke_recog.html creepy 08:53:10 isn't everything on that blog creepy? 08:56:31 valid point 09:00:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:07:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:07:59 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:10:38 izabera: Soviet Union is USSR 09:10:45 In Soviet Russia, USSR is YOU 09:10:54 Oooh, perfect linesync. Yay. 09:11:01 Bah! So close to a triple! 09:14:32 -!- augur has joined. 09:15:17 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:16:00 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:19:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:39:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:47:22 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 09:51:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:54:57 -!- yorick_ has joined. 09:58:49 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:58:49 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 09:58:49 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split). 09:58:50 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 10:03:03 -!- idris-bot has joined. 10:03:03 -!- deltab has joined. 10:04:28 -!- Deewiant has joined. 10:19:03 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:20:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 10:27:26 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:33:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:43:22 fungot, can you ead MFT? 10:43:22 b_jonas: ( fnord object object message args)) would be the 10:43:58 fungot: it's not quite *that* simple 10:43:58 b_jonas: eval ( call-with-values ( lambda ( x) x 10:44:18 `wisdom 10:44:20 eurovision//Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing. 10:45:49 `bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man 10:45:49 bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man: b_jonas 10:46:42 nice! Savage Chickens is celebrating its 3000th strip 11:04:13 -!- gamemanj has joined. 11:18:37 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:24:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:36:08 -!- boily has joined. 12:28:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MACRO CHICKEN). 12:30:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:42:21 -!- Akaibu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:18 -!- Akaibu has joined. 13:20:15 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:35:51 `make 13:35:52 make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. 13:36:08 ``` make it stop 13:36:08 make: *** No rule to make target `it'. Stop. 13:40:31 I think make wants you to stop 13:40:38 could be wrong though 13:47:03 -!- APNG has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:49:40 `` make $'\bdead' 13:49:42 make: *** No rule to make target `dead'. Stop. 13:55:47 -!- lynn_ has changed nick to lynn. 13:56:06 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 13:56:06 -!- lynn has joined. 13:56:06 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 13:56:06 -!- lynn has joined. 13:57:56 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 14:06:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:14:56 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:15:59 -!- staffehn_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 14:16:25 -!- staffehn has joined. 14:18:58 https://gist.github.com/forairan/b1143f42883b3b0ee1237bc9bd0b7b2c 14:20:16 fungot, did you know I'm older than Linux? 14:20:16 b_jonas: presumably you read the sisc documentation doesn't seem to work together is to convince some pirate that acm actually stores porn. main difference being in the same running sisc process? 14:20:27 WHAT 14:20:44 b_jonas: nothing to brag. i am as old as perl! 14:21:47 myname: you can you tell? nobody knows how old perl is, because the history of perl before perl 1 is classified. 14:22:24 based on the release date noted on wikipedia 14:27:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:32:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:39:40 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:01:43 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:20:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:26:47 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 15:52:33 `card-by-name sigarda's 15:52:34 Sigarda's Aid \ W \ Enchantment \ You may cast Aura and Equipment spells as though they had flash. \ Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may attach it to target creature you control. \ EMN-R 16:17:04 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:31:52 <\oren\> Falcon 9 exploded on launchpad 16:32:18 <\oren\> payload lost, launch tower probably also lost 16:32:59 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:34:27 \oren\: an investigation will be launched 16:36:01 in happier news, FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A! 16:36:55 What are those numbers for? 16:37:08 <\oren\> `` xxd -rp <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" 16:37:09 ​...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................øô.åÿ€.ÿÀGZ 16:37:26 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" 16:37:26 ​ÿøô.åÿ€.ÿÀGZ 16:37:36 gamemanj: er what? 16:37:44 what's that mean? 16:37:48 Should I give a hint? 16:37:58 wait 16:38:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:38:44 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" >gunzip - 16:38:46 No output. 16:38:49 b_jonas: Do alert me when you want the hint. 16:38:51 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" |gunzip - 16:38:51 ​ \ gzip: stdin: not in gzip format 16:39:00 <\oren\> `revert 16:39:02 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 16:39:31 oren: Want the hint, or not? 16:39:40 gamemanj: that looks like an MPEG header 16:39:43 you can give the hint 16:39:50 So close with MPEG! 16:39:59 In fact, they explicitly did things to the sync code, 16:40:08 it's probably not a whole MPEG file (or some trivially empty one), it's too small for that 16:40:09 so that an MPEG decoder would NOT get it confused. 16:40:09 <\oren\> maybe it's jpeg? 16:40:14 Not JPEG, either. 16:40:40 Also note that this format usually has framing, but if you pass it to the decoder, it'll accept it anyway. 16:41:04 \oren\: not jpeg 16:41:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:41:58 gamemanj: is it a bug test case, as in, a file that gets some mpeg player or other program confused and crash or something? 16:42:02 Nope. 16:42:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:42:18 It's a totally legitimate file, if you discount the lack of header. 16:42:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:43:35 gamemanj: apparently it might be an audio-only file 16:43:41 Yep! It is! 16:43:45 My own computer says AAC (although I have no program to play such a file) 16:43:51 Nope, not AAC. 16:44:31 I don't have a speaker here, so I can't listen to it 16:44:39 Do you have Audacity? 16:44:51 but it does seem to start to play without errors 16:45:04 If you want to cheat, Audacity should open it, though if it'll recognize it without the right file extension... 16:45:15 apparently it's a very small audio file you can actually play 16:45:17 <\oren\> vlc says it's mp4a 16:45:19 smaller than I expected 16:45:31 Look, if it's 4.096 seconds, then you have the right format. 16:45:38 \oren\: no, it's flac 16:45:43 b_jonas wins! 16:45:51 but I don't know what it contains 16:46:05 SoX fails to determine the type. I do not have Audacity. 16:46:06 Well, I messed around until it sounded OK. 16:46:16 It kind of sounds like a radio being tuned or something. 16:46:17 gamemanj: but how can it be so small? 16:46:27 b_jonas: I manually tuned the LPC parameters! 16:46:34 And then looked at what comes out! 16:46:39 Also, I did say I omitted the header. 16:46:41 what's LPC 16:46:43 ? 16:46:53 I don't know. Something about "linear prediction". 16:47:02 yes, it's just flac without a container, but that's fine, I'm used to such media files 16:47:10 <\oren\> vlc doesn't play it with file extention flac 16:47:17 you need containers if you want to seek or have multiple streams or metadata or such things 16:47:30 You may need a container to play it with some media players 16:47:43 I can put it in a container if you want, it shouldn't be too hard to engineer one 16:47:48 gamemanj: some media players probably can't play it no matter what 16:47:56 I mean, some media players don't play FLAC at all 16:48:09 b_jonas: Well, that's no fun! 16:48:19 gamemanj: I could put it to a container too, but the wonderful part is how small it is, and that would be lost 16:48:34 I can play FLAC on my computer but I don't know if it might not play without the header? 16:48:43 zzo38: Audacity will load it, 16:48:53 I don't have Audacity 16:48:59 oh, and for some formats, you need a container to explicitly tell what the video framerate is, because the video format only stores a sequence of images without timestamps or framerate 16:49:08 Also: flac -d test.flac 16:49:11 That should work 16:49:19 zzo38: oh by the way, I wanted to ask, 16:49:20 What options do I need for SoX to load it? If I write -t flac then it says sampling rate was not specified 16:49:34 zzo38: Again, use flac -d, or prepend a header. 16:49:37 zzo38: could you figure out that css html multi-columns thing? 16:49:43 zzo38: should I give a hint about the sound file? 16:49:50 b_jonas: No I did not figure out the HTML multi-columns 16:50:15 OK give the hint; it seems SoX won't load it though 16:50:20 b_jonas: A hint about the sound file? It's FLAC. You all know that now :) 16:50:29 SoX probably wants a container. 16:50:29 gamemanj: about how to play or convert 16:50:31 zzo38: play with ffplay (of ffmpeg) 16:50:48 ffmpeg is generally the best to load strange or partly broken media files 16:50:55 it will open stuff other programs won't 16:51:00 and it has a nice visualization, too 16:51:03 you can also use ffmpeg to put it to a container probably 16:51:18 b_jonas: -c copy will do it without even losing the size 16:51:22 (I think) 16:51:48 Or... not. 16:51:58 gamemanj: you still need a container, any container must add to the size 16:52:18 Well, yeah, but it'll still remain smaller than if it was reencoded 16:52:31 I suppose I will have to install those programs if I want to be able to play such file. (Fortunately I can install them; they are included in the package manager) 16:52:31 At least if it wasn't failing because ffmpeg (unlike ffplay) doesn't like it... 16:55:32 <\oren\> successfully converted to mp3 16:56:06 I have found a problem with writing a header - it requires me to decode the file to get the MD5. 16:57:22 gamemanj: mind you, ffplay also thinks the sound is very short 16:57:31 b_jonas: How short? 16:57:43 b_jonas: 4.096 seconds is correct. 16:58:04 gamemanj: dunno, with -autoexit it exits in a blink (definitely under a second) 16:58:19 without -autoexit it plays past the end 16:58:24 Not a clue what's going on there then. 16:58:34 Maybe it just doesn't like the lack of a container (and thus a fixed size) 16:58:56 gamemanj: right, could guess wrong about something that should be in the container header 16:59:24 <\oren\> try naming the file x.flac 16:59:45 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:01:19 is it not easier to encode silence? 17:01:45 <\oren\> Jafet: that would depend on the format 17:02:30 flac has a model for silence 17:02:41 https://xiph.org/flac/format.html#prediction 17:02:47 <\oren\> I mean, in musical notation, silence and any given note take the same amount od space 17:02:58 what the heck? 17:03:12 are there two people in here who play with the details of the flac format? 17:03:14 what's this channel? 17:04:07 <\oren\> a channel for digital esotericism 17:04:17 does playing since two minutes ago count? 17:04:34 flac frame format: now playing 17:04:56 Jafet: it may be easier to encode silence, but that's less fun 17:05:30 I mean, there's a specific subframe type for "absolutely nothing but one sample for however long" 17:05:40 doesn't make it a good idea, though. 17:05:46 <\oren\> I guess this signal is the raw prediction out of one of the more advanced predictors? 17:06:06 it's used for encoding, well, actual digital silence 17:06:21 Jafet: exactly, so it's no fun 17:06:48 like between singles 17:07:09 \oren\: SUBFRAME_FIXED, order 3 (the missing -1 on _FIXED is NOT a documentation error), warmup 0x7FFF, 0x8000, 0x7FFF, no residual. 17:08:06 Well, I say "no residual", what I mean is, RICE-1, partition order 0, escape code, 0-bit. Apparently no residual is a rare enough case they had to make it take 15 bits to encode. 17:09:57 gamemanj: this might explain why the length isn't known and ffplay assumes it's very short 17:10:06 but keeps continuing to play 17:10:22 b_jonas: No, it has a length. 17:10:31 The length of it is described as the block size. 17:10:40 32768 samples. 17:10:42 the reason for that is probably because there is no flac metadata 17:11:20 gamemanj: ok 17:14:21 huh, adding the header and double-checking it's correct makes Audacity act differently (it's somehow making it 1-bit) 17:14:29 not sure what's going on there 17:14:35 ffplay is fine with it though 17:14:54 and VLC... 17:15:17 1 bit is p cool 17:16:15 Hmm, except I set the file to 16-bit. I think 8-bit is possible but I had some issues with it, so I just took the path of least resistance. 17:17:02 ok, what the... the sample dots aren't even showing up 17:17:09 it's like it amped it up too high 17:17:49 yep, Audacity amped it up too high 17:18:13 it's 1-bit due to clipping 17:19:57 Still, for anyone who wants to waste a bunch of extra bytes, 17:20:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: No route to host). 17:20:47 the header is... 17:20:52 my goodness, that is one long header 17:21:02 00: 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 17:21:10 10: 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38 17:21:19 20: bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1 17:21:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:21:32 and the actual frame: 17:21:54 2A: ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a 17:22:23 can you overlap the md5 entry with the frame itself 17:22:39 no 17:22:49 that's unfortunate 17:22:51 even if you had an MD5 that ended in FF F8 17:23:02 gamemanj: can you use some other container? 17:23:06 it looks like the metadata header is fixed-size 17:23:17 you can use vorbis, but that is going to be even bigger 17:23:32 vorbis is a totally different codec, and if you mean Ogg, that will be tons bigger 17:23:46 because you'll get the Ogg page headers, supplementary headers dragged in by FLAC 17:24:15 I just tested, the result was 202 bytes 17:24:24 Well, now SoX recognizes it as FLAC, but says error whilst decoding metadata 17:25:03 zzo38: working fine for me on SoX... 17:25:08 well, SoX "play", anyway 17:25:43 keep in mind the 00 / 10 / 20 / 2A are just address info 17:26:09 Yes I know that 17:26:17 Not a clue, then. 17:26:48 The header should be 42 bytes, the frame should be 17. 17:28:07 also I have apparently created an unpausable FLAC file, or at least in VLC anyway. Plus, the Ogg-container version won't load in VLC. 17:29:01 Replacing "xxd -r -p" with "utftovlq 48" has the same result and still doesn't work. 17:29:16 hehe 17:29:18 (I also tried both of these versions with hd, and the data is same as above in both cases.) 17:29:20 Maybe double-check the hexdump? 17:29:25 oh 17:29:29 huh, no clue then 17:30:20 it's fun to see webpages with between 500 and 30000 pages all numbered with continuous indexes in the url, and a table of contents that ALMOST covers a range of natural numbers for the indexes 17:30:20 here's it without any room for error, just in case I messed up: 17:30:26 00000000 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 |fLaC..."........| 17:30:26 00000010 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38 |.............L.8| 17:30:26 00000020 bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1 ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 |.Ga.3.ev........| 17:30:26 00000030 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a |.........GZ| 17:30:31 you can look at what the hidden pages missing from the table of contents are 17:31:38 That is exactly what I have. 17:31:49 * gamemanj has no clue what is wrong with the file 17:32:03 AH! "MD5 signature mismatch" 17:32:04 somehow 17:32:13 somehow I wrote the MD5 signature incorrectly into the file 17:33:39 so now I'm going to have to find some way of making absolutely sure I cut up this WAV file in exactly the right way, including endianness, 17:33:48 so that I get the right MD5 at the end of it 17:34:23 it would be nice if the "Other Uncompressed Files" option in Audacity wasn't making this harder by omitting important information. To SoX! 17:34:40 (via the "flac" command-line tool) 17:36:23 (some copying and pasting, especially of ",0x", later...) 17:37:03 ERROR: md5 signature mismatch. 17:37:55 Reversing the signature migh---ERROR: md5 signature mismatch. 17:38:12 wow, do players actually check the md5 digest 17:38:42 the "flac" command-line tool does, and goodness knows how far that mess has spread 17:38:57 after all, it's basically a self-test to ensure the decoder's working correctly 17:39:04 I guess libflac might 17:39:17 otherwise you could end up with *gasp* slightly modified audio data! 17:41:03 In this case, half of the hidden pages are broken, and half are apparently omitted because the code making the toc is broken 17:41:58 Well, that can't be good for research. 17:43:24 gamemanj: yes, it's a nice way to make automatic self-tests for unusual configurations (eg. strange operating systems or compilation options) 17:44:25 "A passing neutron hit their FLAC files, and modifying a VERBATIM segment, it became... not the true audio!" 17:44:54 (All scientific inaccuracies intentional.) 17:45:08 gamemanj: no, seriously, it's for detecting bugs that only come up when both the system is unusual and the file is. those bugs wouldn't normally be reported, because people would just assume the audio file they're playing is broken. 17:45:43 Fair enough, though if both the system and the file are unusual, fun may occur. 17:46:22 Now, if the system is unusual enough that something goes wrong in the decoder, it's pretty bad from a "completely, 100%, lossless" standpoint. 17:46:30 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 17:51:16 stop making fun of people who merely want bit-for-bit reproduction of their rick rubin albums 17:56:38 Idea of new Magic: the Gathering card: The next time a nontoken Aura dies this turn, you may cast it. 17:56:42 (I don't know what cost or name) 18:03:28 Jafet: I'm more concerned about signal processing, where there may be a good use case for lossless files. 18:08:06 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.156]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 18:10:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:18:10 <\oren\> gamemanj: right, video/music editing would produce very bad results if every operation involved decoding and reencoding with lossage 18:25:00 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/_BgJEXQkjNQ 18:25:32 <\oren\> it seems that the upper stage oxygen tank may have exploded, which caused the rest to fail 18:26:26 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:29:02 hey 18:29:05 i've got a problem 18:29:20 i found some non-gpl code with a comment "[...] copied from linux" 18:29:33 which in this case is likely to refer to glibc 18:29:49 but i don't know how old a version of glibc 18:30:03 what do 18:31:17 Where is this code, and why are you using it? 18:32:46 suppose i don't/can't show it 18:33:37 ok i found it 18:33:39 it was glibc 18:33:47 what should i do now? 18:34:20 Well... if it's under uncertain legal terms, why is it in the codebase? 18:43:16 it's complicated 18:43:44 Under this scenario, I'd probably excise it from the codebase if at all possible. 18:43:53 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:44:11 If it's a routine from glibc, though, it may be possible to simply refer to the routine. 18:44:16 If it's actually accessible... 18:44:17 izabera: is it in code that you intend to eventually distribute, as opposed to code you're just using in house? 18:44:35 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:44:35 it has already been distributed 18:44:57 *gulp* 18:45:05 izabera: try to contact its author or maintainer maybe? 18:45:25 Is it being distributed as source? 18:45:28 no 18:45:35 ick. 18:45:39 * gamemanj looks at wob_jonas 18:45:45 we will not speak of this. understood? 18:46:12 There. Problem solved. And now for a 100-verse scrawl on beer. 18:46:18 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall 18:46:23 izabera: maybe look at whether it's copied to glibc from some other source that is under a less restricted license? 18:46:30 uh what 18:46:35 or whether you can find a replacement code that does something similar 18:46:38 is that even a thing? 18:46:43 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall, and if one should happen, to accidentally fall.. 18:46:55 izabera: why not? you can try to look at comments in the file in glibc in case they tell that 18:47:59 I don't know if glibc has such pieces of code, but it certainly happens in other gpl-ed software 18:48:06 that's what the free software licenses are for 18:48:27 I personally would use a force-push to try and excise it's very existence, and then have it under a gentleperson's agreement that nobody says anything. Push the existence of the glibc code down the memory hole. 18:48:43 Or just cover it up. 18:48:47 But probably the first. 18:49:04 Seriously, though, if it's already in released builds, and it's actually GPL'd code, there is nothing you can do. 18:49:32 it's been in released builds for several years 18:49:42 That does not help matters. 18:50:06 Given you said there's no source distribution going on, it's probably already a violation of the GPL. 18:50:28 So you'll probably want to remove the code ASAP and pretend it never existed. 18:51:11 Because, you know, writing "Oh we were violating the GPL but we fixed that now" into a changelog is not a good idea. 18:52:10 gamemanj: why not? 18:52:15 i figured that 18:52:31 wob_jonas: I'm assuming izabera's priorities involve keeping a job. 18:55:16 Also, izabera, never tell us who you work for. Ever. 18:55:53 i didn't say that this is happening where i work 18:56:23 Huh, ok. It just seemed that way, given the whole "released binary only product going for several years" thing 19:01:41 izabera: great, you get this plausible deniability thing 19:01:53 <\oren\> nInE nIn botLs uv bEr on Du wol, nInE nIn botLs uv bEr. if wun uv Dos botLs Sud hapN tU fol, nInE At botLs uv bEr on Du wol 19:02:26 that sounds like a rather tipsy transcription 19:02:28 mind you, since you already said it's not distributed as a source, but you read a source comment, so there aren't that many possibilities remaining 19:02:47 <\oren\> Jafet: in what way? 19:04:20 -!- rodgort has joined. 19:04:38 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:05:01 <\oren\> oh, I guess some people pronounce ninety nIndE and not nInE 19:06:25 <\oren\> actually, since my dialect doesn't have t in botLs it should just be boLs 19:06:38 <\oren\> or perhaps bolLs 19:06:51 balls to the walls 19:07:15 <\oren\> bodLs perhaps? 19:07:31 <\oren\> yeah that's the closest approximation 19:12:56 <\oren\> I have no idea why but toronto english seems to slur the hell out of everything 19:14:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:15:17 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:15:49 <\oren\> slR Du hel Wt uv evrETiG 19:16:08 in less sane happier news, apparently warmup 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF creates random noise. 19:16:21 Somehow. 19:16:48 Except it's not quite random noise. 19:17:14 There's little circles here and there showing it was at some point meant to resemble sound. 19:17:28 <\oren\> is it somehow tricking the decoder into reading uninitialized memory 19:17:33 No. 19:17:35 <\oren\> hopefully not 19:17:39 At least, not as far as I know, anyway. 19:17:56 Should I just upload a screenshot of it in Audacity? 19:18:01 <\oren\> sure 19:18:04 I think it explains more than anything else what's going on... 19:18:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:18:46 <\oren\> Phelltom_Hellover 19:19:29 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: apparently 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF in a flac file creates random looking noise 19:19:46 very good? 19:19:54 <\oren\> gamemanj is investigating this 19:20:16 Well, not so much random looking 19:20:24 when you look at it it's clearly not random 19:20:46 <\oren\> random sounding then 19:21:15 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly.png 19:21:43 I'm pretty sure there's some overflows involved here. 19:21:44 No idea why. 19:22:57 Also it's not just those 8 bytes 19:23:10 Those are just the warmup constants I used, you have to have the stuff around them 19:23:30 The total FLAC frame is 18 bytes 19:24:01 FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 18 60 00 5F FF 60 00 5F FF 03 C0 FC 5C 19:24:42 It's interesting that it acts kind of like it has a "velocity" of some sort 19:25:02 and then the "velocity" gets so high that it just acts like a decrement instead of an increment 19:26:30 there's also a bit where it actually stops sounding like noise 19:26:43 it's at 2.048s 19:26:49 exactly half way in 19:26:56 and then it goes back to being noise again 19:27:21 course, it's only 0.01 long, so it's just a click before it gets back to being noise-like again 19:28:30 that's just the fractional part of a polynomial, isn't it 19:28:47 <\oren\> Jafet: not exaclty 19:29:05 Jafet: no, it's exponential, sort of like those quadratic recursion random generators 19:29:13 <\oren\> the thing has a cusp when its slope get high wnough 19:30:36 <\oren\> I bet it's something like x+=v;v+=a;x=x%1; 19:30:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:31:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:31:22 <\oren\> or x = x & 0xFFFF 19:31:25 <\oren\> most likely 19:31:40 <\oren\> v is some sort of wraparound int 19:31:59 <\oren\> that would explain why the value suddenly switches direction 19:33:06 <\oren\> in other news, for some reason, yesterday I decided to make a crappy calculator 19:38:21 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:38:28 surely this is fairly easy to work out by brute force 19:38:44 just track through how the flac algorithm decodes those bytes 19:38:56 more fun to theorize 19:39:02 I mean, you could just look at the code 19:39:10 the file doesn't even use complicated coefficients, 19:39:18 it's a SUBFRAME_FIXED 19:39:20 order 4 19:40:04 also the graph you posted is clearly a smooth curve modulo something 19:40:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:40:43 the weird thing is 19:40:49 there's something that looks like a sine wave in it 19:40:58 it's not a sine wave 19:41:11 at 1.873, len 0.009 19:41:16 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:41:27 gamemanj: there always is, in a periodic function 19:41:41 in any function really 19:41:52 according to Fourier 19:42:18 gamemanj, imo try lifting those samples you have to see the underlying curve 19:42:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:28 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:44:53 \oren\: what? 19:45:06 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:45:06 <\oren\> 4 4+ 19:45:14 <\oren\> testing this stupid calculator 19:45:29 <\oren\> it's not working 19:46:00 -!- APNG has joined. 19:46:12 oh btw anyone wanna try an IRC-based esolang? https://github.com/SoniEx2/CTCP-S/blob/master/ctcp-s.md#sub 19:46:12 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:46:15 yes but that was fairly clear after the first few failed attempts 19:46:29 it should be turing-complete, that is you should be able to write a brainfuck interpreter using CTCP-S SUB 19:46:35 <\oren\> it says "irssi: not enough parameters given" 19:46:40 *should* 19:47:05 <\oren\> and I don't know why 19:47:43 hello APNG. 19:48:12 (it's basically a C preprocessor derivative btw) 19:48:17 hi gamemanj 19:49:13 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+p 19:49:13 <\oren\> 8 19:49:23 ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:49:26 wob_jonas: yes, but these are very obvious sine waves: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly_detail.png 19:49:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:49:47 <\oren\> I think it's occurring in the line that prints the output 19:49:57 ❄ocal 4 3+= 19:50:10 *ocal 2 19+ 19:50:11 <\oren\> $server->command("msg $target ". botscript($message)); 19:50:19 %ocal 14 7- 19:50:29 ❄ocal 4 4+. 19:50:31 <\oren\> 19:50:38 ? 19:50:45 <\oren\> that's charapcter number 8 19:51:19 Ah! 19:51:21 <\oren\> oh, I see, irssi doesn't let me output nothing 19:51:38 why not? nothing is something 19:51:40 ❄ocal 4 48+. 19:51:40 <\oren\> 4 19:51:40 and something is nothin 19:51:44 *nothing 19:51:49 The IRC server won't let you to send a blank message, but you can send a message containing only places. 19:51:51 s/places/spaces/ 19:51:54 -!- augur has joined. 19:52:35 I can get oren banned by sending "❄ocal 4 3+."! 19:53:01 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+p 19:53:01 <\oren\> ☃ 8 19:53:14 <\oren\> there, a snowman before the actal output 19:53:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+ 19:53:22 <\oren\> ☃ 19:53:53 <\oren\> wob_jonas: the bot's trigger character is a snowflake 19:54:40 ❄ocal 2 19+ 19:54:40 <\oren\> ☃ 19:54:46 ❄ocal 2 9+ 19:54:47 <\oren\> ☃ 19:54:49 ❄ocal 2 4+ 19:54:50 <\oren\> ☃ 19:54:54 hmm 19:54:54 <\oren\> you neep p to output the anwser 19:55:02 <\oren\> it's kind of like dc 19:55:03 ❄ocal 2 19+p 19:55:04 <\oren\> ☃ 21 19:55:05 ah! 19:55:27 ❄ocal 999 7%p 19:55:27 <\oren\> ☃ -4 19:55:31 <\oren\> ❄ocal 077p 19:55:31 <\oren\> ☃ 63 19:55:47 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it operates on bytes 19:56:48 ❄ocal 8 4pp 19:56:48 <\oren\> ☃ 44 19:56:56 ❄ocal 8 4pskp 19:56:56 <\oren\> ☃ 44 19:57:19 <\oren\> ❄ocal 8 4 pdpd 19:57:19 <\oren\> ☃ 48 19:57:55 <\oren\> hmm maybe p shuld just be destructive 19:58:00 <\oren\> yeah 19:58:05 \oren\: no 19:58:10 it's not destructive in dc 19:58:18 very useful for debugging 19:58:32 it should print a newline after the number though 19:58:55 <\oren\> i added a space 19:59:07 ❄ocal 8 4pskp 19:59:07 <\oren\> ☃ 48 19:59:15 have you? 20:00:04 <\oren\> ❄ocal 8 4 pdp 20:00:04 <\oren\> ☃ 4 8 20:00:33 <\oren\> hmm I guess d should be dup. but then i dunno about drop 20:00:49 \oren\: add an s command, that's enough for dropping 20:01:13 \oren\, r for remove? 20:01:23 or y for yank 20:01:44 \oren\: or a ! command (as in underload) 20:01:54 \oren\: no, we want dc compatibility :-) 20:02:25 <\oren\> it's not going to be dc compatible if it acts on bytes 20:02:42 \oren\: yeah, just similar syntax so it's easy to learn 20:02:58 <\oren\> well for now, y will work 20:03:02 ❄ocal 3 9p # can I add comments? 20:03:02 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:03:14 <\oren\> hmm 20:03:51 <\oren\> ❄ocal 60 p # p 20:03:52 <\oren\> ☃ 60 20:03:53 ❄ocal 3 9p [maybe just use strings as comments]sk 20:03:53 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:04:02 <\oren\> it doesn't have strings 20:04:11 <\oren\> onyl bytes 20:05:04 <\oren\> ❄ocal 255 1 + p 20:05:04 <\oren\> ☃ 0 20:05:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:05:49 <\oren\> it has an @ command however 20:06:07 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 3 @ p 20:06:07 <\oren\> ☃ 4 20:06:16 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 2 @ p 20:06:16 <\oren\> ☃ 5 20:06:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 0 @ p 20:06:22 <\oren\> ☃ 0 20:07:20 <\oren\> anyway, the key feature I'm gonna add is the ability to switch the type the calculator acts on 20:07:33 ❄ocal _5 20:07:33 <\oren\> ☃ 20:07:40 <\oren\> so you could use the D command to switch to doubles 20:07:42 ❄ocal 251 20:07:42 <\oren\> ☃ 20:07:47 ❄ocal _5p 20:07:48 <\oren\> ☃ 5 20:07:50 ❄ocal 251p 20:07:51 <\oren\> ☃ -5 20:08:22 ❄ 9p 20:08:44 ❄ocal 105 73+p156 40+p45 187+p227 27+p109 33+p179 16+p241 61+p56 58+p5 89+p5 86+p168 148+p # expect -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 -67 -99 20:08:44 <\oren\> ☃ -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 60 20:09:49 ❄ocal 153 37-p156 109-p84 183-p166 147-p219 209-p234 189-p57 214-p157 149-p1 134-p27 220-p116 8-p93 255-p # expect 116 47 -99 19 10 45 99 8 123 63 108 94 20:09:49 <\oren\> ☃ -103 -100 84 -90 -37 -22 57 -99 1 27 116 93 20:09:55 hmm no 20:10:23 ❄ocal 9 2-p 20:10:24 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:10:28 what 20:10:35 ❄ocal 9 1-p 20:10:36 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:10:44 ❄ocal 9 1 -p 20:10:44 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:10:47 ❄ocal 9 3 -p 20:10:47 <\oren\> ☃ 9 20:10:51 ❄ocal 9 3 |p 20:10:51 <\oren\> ☃ 11 20:10:58 ❄ocal 9 4 |p 20:10:58 <\oren\> ☃ 13 20:11:02 what? 20:11:10 <\oren\> | is logical or 20:11:26 <\oren\> er isn't logical or 20:11:26 but what does - do? 20:11:46 <\oren\> ei(*c=='-'){s[0]=-s[0];} 20:12:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 3 - p 20:12:18 <\oren\> ☃ 0 20:12:24 <\oren\> huh? 20:12:42 The sandbox capability in Node.js isn't very good but I would suggest other way you can by making a JavaScript library for accessing a JavaScript implementation. (V8 is accessed from C++, but my suggestion is a way to make V8 accessible through JavaScript code too.) 20:13:12 <\oren\> ❄ocal 3 - p 20:13:13 <\oren\> ☃ -3 20:13:18 <\oren\> there we go 20:13:52 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 |p 20:13:52 <\oren\> ☃ -1 20:13:57 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 &p 20:13:57 <\oren\> ☃ 63 20:13:58 \oren\: what other operations do you have? 20:14:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 ^p 20:14:18 <\oren\> ☃ -64 20:14:48 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 1 = 2 3 = |p 20:14:48 <\oren\> ☃ 1 20:14:58 What would you think of what I wrote about isolated sandbox for JavaScript in JavaScript? 20:15:40 <\oren\> wob_jonas: not much atm, but I'll be adding various types first 20:15:40 zzo38: sandbox implemented in javascript, or a javascript api to the control sandbox? 20:16:45 wob_jonas: A JavaScript API to a JavaScript sandbox 20:17:15 (The API would probably be implemented in C++ because that is what V8 requires) 20:17:37 (And V8 would be used because that is what Node.js uses) 20:17:42 zzo38: isn't that already implemented in browsers basically, and essentially invokable some combination of frames and some other stuff? 20:18:13 or with plugins that let you control the browser from javascript but the pages also have javascript or something 20:18:15 Something like what is in browsers yes, but for Node.js instead of browsers and programmable through JavaScript on the outside too 20:18:35 (Firefox uses XPCOM but that has several problems) 20:19:16 \oren\: will you list the operations this supports somewhere? 20:19:57 <\oren\> hmm, I wonder which operations it should support. Maybe I'll just keep it with bytes but support a lot of byte stuff? 20:20:48 <\oren\> the u command will undrop 20:21:38 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ocal.c.htm 20:24:23 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 + u + u + p 20:24:23 <\oren\> ☃ 7 20:25:24 <\oren\> ❄ocal uu+p 20:25:24 <\oren\> ☃ 0 20:26:34 <\oren\> #define eg else goto 20:26:48 \oren\: well that code is evil 20:27:04 so can we hack into \oren\'s machine now 20:27:09 (I'm not looking) 20:27:19 <\oren\> probably not 20:27:24 int-e: probably no 20:27:46 <\oren\> i mean, it would let you look at anything in the ocal process's memory space 20:28:04 \oren\: why are you writing the number input routines in such a verbose way? 20:28:20 <\oren\> to avoid growing the stack 20:28:45 \oren\: um... but 20:29:09 \oren\: but why not fewer branches instead of repeated code? 20:29:09 <\oren\> i'm doing that char *s=((char*)(&c))+1000; thing again 20:29:59 <\oren\> wob_jonas: oh, because... uh, I dunno 20:30:26 like, instead of ei(*c=='1'){s[1]=1;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;}...ei(*c=='9'){s[1]=9;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;} just write something like ei('1'<=*c&&*c<='9'){s[1]=c-'0';s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;} 20:31:40 <\oren\> there 20:31:47 <\oren\> yeah, did that 20:32:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2+u+u+p 20:32:19 <\oren\> ☃ 7 20:32:25 <\oren\> ❄ocal 100p 20:32:25 <\oren\> ☃ 100 20:32:31 <\oren\> ❄ocal 077p 20:32:31 <\oren\> ☃ 63 20:32:40 <\oren\> yeh, works fine 20:36:13 <\oren\> also for some reason chrome thinks I wrote that program in norwegian 20:37:01 <\oren\> is eg and ei words in norwegian? 20:37:48 <\oren\> oh, I bet eg means like an egg 20:38:16 isn't it Ei that means an egg? 20:42:40 -!- byteflame has joined. 20:43:02 <\oren\> @ask oerjan are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg? 20:43:02 Consider it noted. 20:47:10 apparently ei is a female article (*one* female) and eg the first-person singular pronoun (I) 20:48:11 int-e: Ei still means an egg in German though, doesn't it? 20:48:18 yes it does 20:50:21 wob_jonas: wait, don't you speak German natively? I somehow thought you did. 20:50:46 must be one of my usual mixups. 20:50:52 I don't 20:50:58 <\oren\> I thought he's from Hungary? 20:51:08 correct 20:52:48 <\oren\> I have no idea why the english word egg has two g's though 20:53:14 <\oren\> eg and egs would work just as well 20:53:15 \oren\: because "eg." is already a word 20:54:10 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/egg#English ... seems to have two g's in many languages, actually 20:55:01 AFAICS "eg." does not exist. "e.g." and "eg" do. 20:56:41 electronic goblin 20:57:29 extraordinary gullibility 20:57:40 i am a german native speaker 20:59:10 i wonder what yahoo is planning that they've suddenly shut out all 3rd party apps from using the messenger network 20:59:26 not that anyone used it anyway, but ... did they have some reason to think people will? 21:04:26 bot infestation? 21:04:39 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:08:19 "eg and egs"...? when'd we move from linguistics to webcomics? Oh, look at the time...*falls asleep on desk* 21:09:20 oh god, I remember EGS 21:10:06 * gamemanj gets woken up by music 21:10:30 the "oh god" does not sound like a good thing" 21:10:39 why isn't there a european DVD version of The Expanse 21:12:31 -!- byteflame has joined. 21:14:29 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:17:13 it's alive! https://is.gd/HQfus8 barely... 21:17:14 gamemanj: it's one of those comics that I feel foolish about now, having grown up a little 21:36:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:15 'eg' for 'I' is nynorsk I believe 21:50:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:54:02 I can now add commands to it https://is.gd/PNZ1hc 21:55:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:56:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:08:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:10:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:13:28 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:17:45 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 22:18:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:20:59 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:24:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:31:04 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:53 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( The distance between a point and the origin in n-space divided by the square root of n is equal to the root-mean-square of the values in the point) 22:34:27 -!- carado has joined. 22:37:54 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:39:09 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:51:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:13 -!- augur has joined. 22:54:15 does anyone know a good math expression evalulator (thats a programming library or a program itself)? 23:01:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:03:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:07:28 -!- byteflame has joined. 23:09:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:15:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:20:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:20:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:38:26 Shouldn't be hard to write one... 23:42:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:44:41 @messages- 23:44:42 \oren\ asked 3h 1m 39s ago: are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg? 23:44:59 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:45:38 @tell \oren\ yes, yes (in nynorsk), neither (en:egg = no:egg) 23:45:39 Consider it noted. 23:45:57 @tell \oren\ in fact i vaguely recall english borrowed it from us hth 23:45:57 Consider it noted. 23:46:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:46:43 yep 23:46:56 Horror movies are dumb 23:47:04 Terror movies are MUCH more entertaining 23:47:22 Mirror movies are more reflective 23:48:51 oh the last two blocks i made are in the same range 23:50:47 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.152/29]] with an expiry time of 17:07, 1 September 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 23:55:36 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:31.184.238.0/24]] with an expiry time of 03:48, 29 August 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 23:57:01 i'd remove the redundant ones, but that seems spammy 23:59:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 2016-09-02: 00:01:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:02:05 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:08:27 Ugh 00:08:33 My laptop charger just crapped out on me 00:08:48 This is the second one to do so on this device, and this one is a different brand from the previous one 00:10:32 -!- byteflame has joined. 00:14:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:17:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:19:25 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:25:16 `` ls gu* 00:25:17 ls: cannot access gu*: No such file or directory 00:25:52 hmph 00:25:56 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49678&oldid=49650 * Tbodt * (+214) /* Introductions */ 00:26:03 ooh 00:26:11 `cat test 00:26:11 ho 00:26:19 `mk test//ha 00:26:22 test 00:26:27 `` ls gu* 00:26:28 gunzip 00:26:31 `rm gunzip 00:26:33 No output. 00:27:25 @tell \oren\ there's a bug so you cannot `revert a new file creation properly hth 00:27:25 Consider it noted. 00:31:23 * oerjan suddenly gets filled with sadness at having to work around stupid bugs. 00:31:44 on computers, and in real life. 00:31:56 computers have so many bugs 00:32:16 https://danluu.com/everything-is-broken/ 00:32:40 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:33:19 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:46:11 <\oren\> moonythedwarf_: try octave 00:53:06 <\oren\> ........ 00:58:28 he waxed, then he waned. 01:07:17 They make modern computer designs too complicated and too much stupid also. 01:12:09 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 01:16:27 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:19:36 <\oren\> actually, since my dialect doesn't have t in botLs it should just be boLs <-- sure there's not a glottal stop there? 01:26:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:30:26 -!- Kaynato has joined. 01:47:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:48:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:54:16 <\oren\> oerjan: I'm pretty sure there's no glottal stop. it's more like a d 01:54:21 <\oren\> bodLs 01:54:33 no, i didnt wane ): 01:56:39 moonythedwarf_: oh, didn't notice the nicks were different 01:57:24 -!- boily has joined. 01:57:42 \oren\: hm, there's got to be a name for that. lateral stop maybe? 01:59:27 * oerjan found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-stopped_consonant but isn't sure if that's right there 02:00:12 bonsœøirjan. 02:00:39 surs deily 02:01:26 surs? 02:02:25 transliterated 02:03:08 on another site, it's spelled sous 02:04:10 that's not an easy one... 02:04:17 Albanian? 02:04:20 nope 02:04:38 indeed, i'd never guess it myself *MWAHAHAHA* 02:05:09 (albanian is written with latin alphabet btw) 02:07:24 one never knows... 02:08:05 Marathi? 02:09:24 nope. at least you're getting onto the right continent. 02:10:37 Mongolian? 02:11:25 nope. you haven't got to the right family yet... 02:11:39 Malayalam? 02:11:51 (trying M- languages tonight...) 02:12:09 nope. 02:14:10 it's not indian, although it does have some influence. 02:15:01 ("influenced considerably by Sanskrit and Pali") 02:16:16 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:16:36 ... 02:16:42 ... Tocharian? 02:16:55 (is it influenced by Sanskrit?) 02:17:54 tocharian is indo-european, which i already implicitly excluded. 02:18:51 it probably was though, "The subject matter of the texts suggests that Tocharian A was more archaic and used as a Buddhist liturgical language" 02:19:42 this language is not extinct btw, it has appr. 16 million speakers. 02:19:57 Uyghur? 02:20:44 no, nor any other turkic language. 02:21:09 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 02:21:13 Hmong? 02:22:01 tswellot. heeeeeelp... 02:22:11 Quick, think of a rational number which is not of the form x^7 + 3 y^7, where x and y are rational numbers. 02:22:31 wat. 02:23:08 uh, uh, 5? 02:23:38 coily 02:23:49 heyoerjan 02:23:50 boily: no. best guess so far though. 02:23:51 quinthellopia! 02:24:02 oerjan: Burmese? 02:24:03 How do you write 5 in that form? 02:24:15 Oh, I misunderstood your referent. 02:24:44 nope. you still haven't hit the right family. 02:25:35 * boily is trying to remember all the families out there... Sino-Tibetan, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kadai, Vietic, Austronesian... 02:27:21 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:27:22 you almost got the right family listed except you chose a wrong subfamily instead. 02:27:30 aaaaurgh. 02:27:40 Cham? 02:28:30 no. that's austronesian, apparently. 02:29:06 Thaï? 02:29:18 no. you had Tai-Kadai there. 02:29:34 ... 02:30:00 * oerjan *MWAHAHAS* a bit. 02:30:26 btw it's the official language of a country hth 02:30:33 Nepali? 02:30:44 * boily is panicking 02:30:58 nope. that seems to be indo-aryan. 02:31:21 also moving in the wrong direction. 02:32:36 what are we guessing? 02:33:38 doesthiswork: boily is guessing the language of today's porthelloily hth 02:33:38 also oerjan: thanks for the boolean ring 02:33:52 you're welcome 02:34:47 Naxi? 02:34:57 (most definitely not influenced by Sanskrit, that one) 02:35:22 nope. that's sino-tibetan. 02:35:36 English? 02:35:40 (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!) 02:35:43 (rgh.) 02:35:46 that's indo-european hth 02:36:13 Oriya? 02:36:39 that's indo-aryan 02:36:45 not Dravidian? 02:36:57 -!- spockers has joined. 02:37:02 `relcome spockers 02:37:03 ​spockers: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:37:10 no, but we've already excluded that too (malayalam) 02:37:14 yeah. 02:37:27 maudit est pas facile celle-là à soir... 02:37:29 and i said it wasn't indian. 02:37:45 Maldivian? 02:38:05 indo-aryan hth 02:38:12 elamite? 02:38:16 wut? Maldivian is Indo-Aryan too? 02:38:23 doesthiswork: no hth 02:38:47 doesthiswork: i've already mentioned it's not extinct. 02:39:44 * pikhq notes that all Indo-Aryan languages are Indo-European... 02:39:52 Just like all birds are dinosaurs. :) 02:40:07 boily: of the languages you've mentioned, it's also listed as having been influencing/influenced by Thai and Cham hth 02:40:22 Khmer? 02:40:25 *DING* 02:40:30 bon! 02:40:45 I can't believe I circled that one for so long... 02:41:06 time to go brush my teeth and approach a pillow. 02:41:17 good night :) 02:41:19 boerjanne nuit! 02:41:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOTABLE CHICKEN). 02:46:23 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/HpSEgdQWaS0 03:19:30 * Sgeo was expecting Evillious Chronicals. I don't know what your link is 03:27:25 <\oren\> music 04:34:53 -!- primo has joined. 04:37:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:43:35 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:37:51 [wiki] [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49679&oldid=46761 * Oerjan * (-30) /* Documentation */ Add edit by [[User:Tbodt]] caught in filter 05:38:12 -!- spockers has quit (Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 06:02:49 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 06:06:02 -!- idris-bot has joined. 07:09:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:12:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:02:05 -!- augur has joined. 08:14:53 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 48.42 3874 nuke 08:14:53 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 4009.49978652771 08:23:48 -!- carado has joined. 09:20:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:23:11 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 09:37:49 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:11:51 -!- gamemanj has joined. 11:18:49 -!- boily has joined. 11:28:21 `wisdom 11:28:25 oren's font//\oren\'s font is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 12:07:31 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 12:07:31 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split). 12:09:53 -!- deltab has joined. 12:10:51 -!- Deewiant has joined. 12:30:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DEFENDER CHICKEN). 12:58:48 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 13:31:03 -!- augur has joined. 13:32:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:43:25 fungot, do you like long meetings? 13:43:25 b_jonas: p and i are in completely different places in the struct?' i could use a fnord and helpful way? 13:44:49 -!- Froox has joined. 13:51:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:07:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:16:14 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:18:47 -!- primo has left ("Leaving"). 14:24:04 -!- Nephenter_123 has joined. 14:24:14 hello 14:24:34 -!- Nephenter_123 has quit (Client Quit). 14:46:36 so let's say I'm making an esolang 14:46:41 which I am btw http://play.integer32.com/?gist=0c1b45a0a7f88b2efae29d266f9ccfe8&version=stable&backtrace=2 14:46:52 so let's say idk how the thing I'm making actually works 14:47:04 I know how to make an infinite loop, or loop twice 14:47:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:47:24 but how do I loop 3 times? 4 times? 10 times? 14:47:25 make an article, some of the hardcore nerds will figure stuff out 14:47:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:47:42 n times? not that the thing has any numbers... 14:57:52 ❄ocal 75 8* 14:57:52 <\oren\> ☃ 14:57:55 ❄ocal 75 8*p 14:57:55 <\oren\> ☃ 88 15:20:45 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:30:29 -!- Jafet has joined. 15:32:26 Ok, so Knuth has updated the prediction on his homepage, so volume 5 of TAOCP is now "Estimated to be ready in 2025." rather than in 2020 as he's predicted before. 15:32:53 According to the archive.org wayback machine, this change has happened between 2015-11 and 2016-01. 15:34:23 that sounds like one big revision 15:34:41 The page is http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html 15:34:49 wait, volume, so one big book 15:35:08 And it doesn't have any prediction on when the revised volumes 1' to 3' are going to be ready. 15:36:35 gamemanj: actually TAOCP is now sort of numbered wrong, since volume 4A is published, it's as thick as any of the first three volumes, but the topics professor Knuth originally wanted in volume 4 don't fit in it, 15:36:50 you know, I highly suspect we may need to invent immortality... 15:36:52 so he's splitting it to at least two volumes, so there'll be a volume 4B and possibly more. 15:37:06 ...we definitely need to invent immortality... 15:37:19 gamemanj: yes, or at least longevity. Knuth is definitely one of those people for whom it would be worth. 15:37:25 eventually volumes 6-7 will return to the original goal of describing compilers 15:37:52 -!- FireFly has changed nick to ffl. 15:37:56 like, if I get my hands on very few doses of an extremely rare longevity serum, professor Knuth would be high on the list for who to give it. 15:37:59 seriously. 15:38:07 Jafet: or more likely no 15:38:37 it's ok, we'll learn in nine years that DEK was a collective pseudonym 15:38:42 Jafet: Knuth's words on that is "And after Volumes 1--5 are done, God willing, I plan to publish Volume 6 (the theory of context-free languages) and Volume 7 (Compiler techniques), but only if the things I want to say about those topics are still relevant and still haven't been said. Volumes 1--5 represent the central core of computer programming for sequential machines; the subjects of Volumes 6 and 7 are important but more specialized." 15:38:51 Jafet: sadly no 15:39:10 he's a single genius mathematician 15:42:16 hmm, volume 5 will cover string algorithms 15:42:57 knuth may want to avoid unhealthy foods like pizza and chilli when writing that 15:43:31 Jafet: he has a wife 15:43:37 or he'll never finish it 15:44:43 -!- primo has joined. 15:52:12 -!- kline has changed nick to ayylmao. 15:56:50 Warning. Readers of the above b_jonas text may find a contradiction, but it's because of other meanings of the word "single". 15:57:13 Thus, any advisory on the contradiction does not apply. 15:57:22 (er, pizza and chili) 15:59:15 heh 16:16:26 the git book is 33 pages shorter than harry potter and the deathly hallows 16:20:03 -!- ffl has changed nick to FireFly. 16:20:06 -!- ayylmao has changed nick to kline. 16:33:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:35:51 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 16:47:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:53:56 * oerjan finds today's xkcd disturbing 16:56:00 <\oren\> gamemanj: your warning was helpful as I upscrolled 16:56:20 <\oren\> humansnack 16:56:29 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 48.42 3874 nuke <-- disappointingly nondestructive tdnh 16:56:42 "disappointingly nondestructive"? 16:56:50 ...are you working on mad science experiments? 16:56:59 <\oren\> oerjan: it refers to a nuclear thermal rocket in KSP 16:57:11 huh 16:57:55 . o O ( your attempts to predict ksp behavior are futile... ) 16:58:14 . o O ( KSP would make a good pseudo-random number generator ) 16:58:50 <\oren\> oerjan: specifically, I had a SSTO that was 48.42 tons in orbit, and had 3874 fuel to use, with its nuclear engines 16:59:41 <\oren\> basically that command is just an implementation of Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation 16:59:52 OKAY 17:02:23 -!- primo has left ("Leaving"). 17:02:50 "Operating Kerbals Are Yummy?" 17:03:04 thausible. 17:03:51 . o O ( one day i'll kick gamemanj in all caps. he'll never understand what happened. ) 17:06:00 "Karmic Integrators Concerning Kodak's Systems"? 17:06:14 as i said... 17:07:20 * gamemanj lightly TAPS oerjan on the head with a piece of cardboard. 17:08:09 The only reason I was de-mystifying OKAY was because it didn't seem like you were annoyed, but you were using caps. 17:08:17 OKAY 17:08:32 See, this is the kind of ambiguity I'm talking about... 17:08:47 i don't see what OKAY has to do with annoyance. 17:08:59 It's the caps. 17:09:16 IF YOU SAY SO 17:09:32 like, if I were to go on a long-ish lecture about ambiguity, and how it is a rather painful thing in the English language, 17:09:54 and how, for example, it would be great if someone were to somehow remove the ambiguity in the English language while still keeping it English, 17:10:20 or at least relatively so, then for example you could shout OKAY while I am busy typing this rant, however, you may not, 17:10:52 <\oren\> YAKO 17:11:02 ... 17:12:03 I was going to keep going until oerjan got annoyed and performed a perfect demonstration, but that works too. 17:12:06 <\oren\> DACCORD 17:12:18 i think you fail to get that i use capitals for sarcasm hth 17:12:31 yes, I think I do fail to get 17:12:35 <\oren\> that is one of like 10 words I know in french 17:12:53 \oren\: i think you need an apostrophe hth 17:13:03 <\oren\> D"ACCORD 17:13:12 It looks kind of apostrophe-needed-y. 17:13:21 <\oren\> there 17:13:23 ÖKAY 17:15:57 <\oren\> Ooh, there should be a command like metar but gives the weather in emoji 17:17:46 @@ @leet @metar ENVA 17:17:47 3NvA 021550z 31003x7 9999 phe\/\/026T(u scT050 8kn070 14/08 Q1008 n05i9 Rmk wInD 670ph7 vR801Kt 17:18:05 not aware of an emoji plugin, alas 17:33:49 @tell jafet (er, pizza and chili) <-- chilli seems to be an acceptable spelling hth 17:33:49 Consider it noted. 17:38:23 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:46.185.122.160]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 17:57:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:22:17 inetnum: 46.185.64.0 - 46.185.127.255 18:22:17 netname: KYIVSTAR-NET-9 18:22:17 descr: Kyivstar GSM 18:22:17 descr: Ukrainian mobile phone operator 18:22:47 i don't do range block until i see at least two ips from there... 18:23:07 also, the block log doesn't seem to allow searching for ranges :( 18:23:30 well, that range is probably too large, anyway. 18:23:34 yeah I was just suggesting that I wouldn't be very optimistic about that particular block 18:23:41 OKAY 18:24:12 int-e: today's girl genius is quite informative, especially to people with previous theories hth 18:25:47 i doubt i will be keeping up this reading through all the abuse filter log. the system needs some tweaking... 18:26:22 (of the kind only fizzie can do, i suspect) 18:27:09 I'm just confused. 18:27:20 about what 18:27:32 I have enough trouble keeping up with GG's present... never mind the past. 18:27:39 okay 18:28:30 also, workshops next week, three talks, kind of occupying my brain 18:32:34 int-e: everything i've seen so far fits very well with higgs being the "seventh" http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120516 18:35:02 especially after agatha met jenka recently. 18:35:26 the seventh, no, that didn't stick to my mind. 18:35:48 is Krosp stuck in Mechanicsburg as well? 18:36:38 no, he's out leading bears 18:36:49 ah right 18:37:27 (jenka not only mentioning the "spymaster", but also proving that jägers don't have to look like jägers) 18:42:27 . o O ( funny how i can remember things like this and yet forget stupid things like to brush my teeth... ) 18:43:22 . o O ( hm which i indeed haven't done yet... ) 18:45:19 oerjan: Short term, long term. 18:45:29 alas. 18:46:18 *ALAS 18:57:10 ALpaca Activity System 18:57:50 either that or Actively Learning Artificial System 18:58:55 http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2016/09/01/714-chef/ ... so awful puns ... cannot look away! 19:02:08 schlockmercenary is heading seems to aim for some spectacular fireworks on Sunday (again) 19:06:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:13:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:17:16 gamemanj, hey wanna see my bad code? 19:38:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:38:27 Oh no... 19:38:37 Nononononononono 19:39:13 Four people in the Minnesota have been found guilty of conspiring to travel to the Middle East and support ISIS 19:39:42 They're considering whether they can put them in programs to "deradicalize" them 19:40:47 yay conversion therapy ಠ_ಠ 19:41:47 in other news, `cargo install prexcl` to install a silly IR/IL thingy https://crates.io/crates/prexcl/ 19:42:08 it's very badly written https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/commits/0719a787a321f503fb0f93c85ba9d2ae33a4d2b2?at=master 19:49:51 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:50:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:50:24 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:21:37 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:23:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:54:00 -!- augur has joined. 21:03:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:41 -!- augur has joined. 21:07:21 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 21:20:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:21:26 I seem to remember reading about a cellular automaton that models how neighborhoods tend towards homogeneous race, even in a racism-free society 21:24:45 Something about how, even if you don't really care about race, if you're black and all of your neighbors are white or if you're white and all of your neighbors are black, you'll feel a bit out of place and be more likely to move away to a neighborhood with more people of the same race 21:25:16 And how that statistically results in self-segregated neighborhoods 21:25:22 But I can't remember the name of the model 21:26:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:27:07 Schelling? 21:31:31 Yep, looks like it 21:33:22 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:56:00 copumpkin: hipumpkin 21:57:44 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 21:57:58 -!- simpleirc has joined. 22:01:06 hi shachaf :) 22:02:49 ...huh 22:02:51 -!- simpleirc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:02:54 Time loop logic is interesting 22:03:08 It could be used to solve NP problems in polynomial time 22:04:03 Basically, "receive answer from future. Check answer. If correct, send to past at end of 5 minutes. If incorrect, send different answer (Successor of the answer, perhaps) 22:04:34 If stable time loops are possible (and self-contradicting time loops are impossible), then this guarantees that you will always receive the correct answer in polynomial time 22:04:54 yay! 22:05:18 hppavilion[1]: have a look at p/poly 22:05:29 debugging successful 22:05:32 that's basically what you described 22:05:44 (Really, any problem that can be checked in O(k) can be solved in O(k) using a stable time loop; in fact, I think that you receive the answer in O(1) time, but you still have to check) 22:05:48 without time constraints, though 22:06:07 also, the esolang twoducks is related 22:06:16 it can even solve the halting problem 22:06:20 Yep 22:06:28 myname: And thus is probably impossible 22:06:32 (but not necessarily) 22:07:11 Quantum Computers don't store quantumly on disk, do they? 22:07:12 Oh, gtg 22:08:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:09:26 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:14:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:21:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:22:59 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:31:06 copumpkin: did you order the book twh 22:32:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:57:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:58:39 -!- iaglium has quit (Quit: Bed Time). 23:02:22 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:03:10 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:07:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:14 -!- iaglium has joined. 23:18:17 [wiki] [[User:AshuraTheHedgehog]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49680&oldid=49093 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (+0) /* Instructions */ fixed 23:18:53 <\oren\> Jeremy Corbyn claims that having beers after work is sexist. How about beers DURING work? 23:20:31 he\\oren\. I had a beer during work today. it wasn't sexist. 23:22:52 <\oren\> As did I 23:32:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:37:06 -!- Zarutian has joined. 23:39:03 bohily. you're lucky to live in a country/province where that's acceptable, i suspect. 23:39:47 maadwoerjan! 23:40:04 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:16 i don't think there are many places in norway where it is. or sweden. stereotypically, denmark is different. 23:40:36 every Friday a pair of volunteers go to the dépanneur and grab two 12-packs. at 4:00pm, we drink a beer. very important tradition. 23:40:59 hm. 23:41:46 arabic? (but wouldn't that be salaam ...) 23:42:25 some other semitic or... hm, somali? 23:47:27 it's the squished version of "me ma wo adwoerjan" hth. 23:47:51 wat 23:48:48 well that looks mostly monosyllabic. chinese? 23:49:06 except adwo doesn't work. 23:49:29 far from any variation on Chinese. 23:49:45 Somali wasn't too too far. 23:50:01 eep 23:50:43 ethiopian (wait, is that even a language name) 23:51:07 * oerjan may be over his head today 23:51:13 eeeeh... maybe? 23:51:35 it's a group → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Semitic_languages 23:51:50 hm 23:51:59 think African west coast. 23:52:03 oh. 23:52:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:52:32 *sigh* 23:52:55 ghanese, is that something? 23:53:34 Pet Peeve: Using emoji as words in a sentence 23:53:51 hm what's that thing youssoun dor [sp] sings... 23:54:16 Ghana is where it's spoken. 23:54:23 my memory won't even remember that... 23:54:31 While I am a fan of (or at least ambivalent to) emoji, they are not meant to be used as words, they are meant to be used to convey emotions (and, to a lesser extent, high-level ideas) 23:54:35 They don't fit as words 23:55:01 Don't write "I'm too [scared emoji] to go in there" 23:55:03 . o O ( /cs quiet hppavilion[1] ) 23:55:13 Write "I'm too scared to go in there [scared emoji]" 23:55:15 *+ #esoteric 23:55:16 23:55:57 boily: i cannot remember... oh wait, wolof it was 23:56:12 if that's not it, then i'm out of names i think 23:56:35 hppavellon[🌵] 23:56:50 it's shorter than wolof, but it has a "w". 23:56:56 `unidecode 🌵 23:56:57 U+1F335 CACTUS \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8c b5 UTF-16BE: d83cdf35 Decimal: 🌵 \ 🌵 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 23:57:13 hm 23:57:29 wadi, or is that just an arabic word... 23:57:38 (which popped up for some reason) 23:57:41 . o O ( If there were (ocean (or space)) pirates today, what would their slang be like? ) 23:57:54 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:57:56 hppavilion[1]: somali hth 23:58:03 oerjan: English pirates 23:58:03 wadi is Arabic for "river" hth. 23:58:10 oerjan: do you want the solution? 23:58:32 (I've heard it said that "Internet pirates don't have ships". I happen to know someone who frequently pirates movies and owns a boat.) 23:59:33 boily: well the only other options are cheating or making up words, so... 2016-09-03: 00:00:11 hppavilion[1]: but does he pirate movies from his boat 00:00:33 oerjan: Twi. 00:00:33 boily: (that means yes) 00:00:36 oh. 00:00:37 oerjan: Not usually, no, but he would if he had WiFi on it 00:00:42 never heard of. 00:00:48 Oh, what's the riddle? 00:00:49 Twifi 00:01:03 TwiPie 00:01:09 hppavilion[1]: today's linguistic porthello hth 00:01:18 Ah, sure 00:01:34 (maadwoerjan) 00:02:08 scott aaronson finally posting again 00:02:26 apparently it has the [ɥ] phoneme. it's a good phoneme. 00:02:30 . o O ( Are there any bots here that could be made to play the "Who/what am I?" game? ) 00:02:34 who's scott aaronson? 00:02:41 hppavilion[1]: there are. 00:02:50 fungot: Am I alive? 00:02:51 hppavilion[1]: i printed and bound a copy of a networking book for fnord.. 00:03:04 boily: Oooh, which ones? 00:03:42 boily: mathematician doing things like studying quantum computation and blogging http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/ 00:03:54 hppavilion[1]: can't remember, but there are 20-questions-like bots out there. 00:04:13 hppavilion[1]: e.g. https://github.com/rawsonj/triviabot 00:04:18 Yeah, but it needs to be very #esoteric 00:04:31 "Am I the Riemann zeta function?" 00:04:42 fungot: do you have non-trivial zeroes? 00:04:42 boily: there might be small differences in " alla ska tala bra svenska", as i write the gui using qt and do the longjmp atomically. if you 00:05:30 hppavilion[1]: i recall old #initgame at EFNet had such a game, although it didn't use a bot. 00:05:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:41 not sure if it still exists 00:05:43 Ah, yes 00:05:50 (that was back in 1990s) 00:07:57 fungot: din svenska er riktigt bra tdh 00:07:57 oerjan: you always want to declare the equivalent of /dev/ hda is a different bot. 00:08:05 *är 00:08:09 better than mine, anyway 00:08:46 hm it must have been before 1996 00:08:47 fungot: c'est quoi un "alla ska tala bra svenska"? ça sonne louche. 00:08:47 boily: firebird has an extension to the reals must be isomorphic to peano numbers. to represent inexacts. 00:09:15 that's what i get for looking at a line of irc without looking at who wrote it 00:10:02 shachaf: wat 00:10:26 oerjan: i tried to make sense of fungotese tdnh 00:10:26 shachaf: see cluelessness in a lesser state: 00:10:30 exactly 00:10:37 indeed tdnh 00:11:45 "Hitler often doubted whether Czechs were Aryan or not" -- Wikipedia 00:12:04 "The question of whether Italians were Aryan enough was questioned by the Nazi racial theorists." 00:16:40 -!- keemyb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:18:48 -!- augur has joined. 00:37:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:33 -!- augur has joined. 00:51:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:58:21 -!- augur has joined. 00:58:42 I take as granted that people here have seen SmallTalk80|Squeak blocks, yes? 00:59:55 http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.html I look at this a bit (haven't read it entirely, yet), and actually even before looking at that document and hearing/reading the issues involved, I have thought of other ways. Such as, write a BASIC interpreter in C and a C compiler in BASIC; and possibly, make a program that does not actually produce an executable but instead something else such as writing the 01:00:46 zzo38: your message got cut off at: else such as writing the 01:01:12 nstead something else such as writing the file out backwards 01:02:47 Zarutian: at least ais523 must, since Feather is supposed to be based on smalltalk 01:03:29 zzo38: well another way is to do an Initial Program Load by hand and load in a Forth. Then use that to load a small C compiler written in Forth. Then use that C compiler to compile a bigger one. 01:03:37 oerjan: good afternoerjan 01:03:58 chaflom. 01:04:24 oerjan: I took me a while to notice that there were no control flow statements in that Smalltalk at all. 01:04:30 `wisdom 01:04:31 `wisdom 01:04:31 `wisdom 01:04:31 alpha//Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral. 01:04:32 `wisdom 01:04:33 tadpole//A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater. 01:04:33 studie//Studies show lots of things. Nobody reads them, though. Also: this study contradicts this other study. 01:04:33 `wisdom 01:04:33 drone//drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. 01:04:34 at//At is a daemon for procrastinating commands. 01:04:35 oerjan: Was that a kiflom? 01:04:43 prooftechnique: what? 01:04:58 I'm almost certain that a tadpole is just a shorter pole 01:05:09 oerjan: The chaflom 01:05:19 Zarutian: Yes, there is another, like that. 01:06:13 prooftechnique: i don't understand the question hth 01:06:57 They mention hardware stuff too in that document. I have actually thought of such things before, and try to think of if there are ways that compatible computer systems can be built out of parts by throwing dice to decide how to do it, somehow. 01:06:58 `slwd tadpole//s/.$/, and also a tad shorter./ 01:06:59 wisdom/tadpole//A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater, and also a tad shorter. 01:07:30 oerjan: Kiflom is a greeting and general exclamation used by fictional cultists in Grand Theft Auto. I was curious if your response to "good afternoerjan" was a reference to that. It seems that it wasn't, so now I'm left curious about it. 01:07:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:57 prooftechnique: i was just doing some obvious mangling of shachaf and shalom hth 01:07:59 With FPGAs, there is IceStorm for one thing, at least. 01:09:15 re the smalltalk blocks: structurally it is basically an sequence of invocations plus the arg vars defined between ||'s at the start of the block 01:09:23 Ah, that also makes sense. 01:10:09 (smalltalk blocks looked like [ | varA breyta2 | ble doIt: varA ; ble doIt: breyta2 ] ) 01:12:09 -!- augur has joined. 01:14:03 zzo38: the real question is, how did the compiler sabetour get access to the compiler binary? 01:14:37 (on the machine where it is used and not necsirarly where it was produced) 01:15:20 O, yes, there is that too 01:21:39 access control in computers (where the subjects are processes and the objects are various stuff that needs to be accessible to some but perhaps not all subjects) is something I have looked into rather extensively 01:26:05 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:27:02 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:27:19 smalltalk is great. i dont know why it never really caught on 01:28:02 imagine a world where a type of smalltalk was used everywhere java is now 01:28:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:33:34 So on the days of christmas 01:35:20 Does the singer receive- in total- 1 partridge in a pear tree, two turtle doves, three french hens, 4 calling birsd, 5 golden rings, 6 geese a-laying, 7 swans a-swimming, 8 maids a-milking, 9 ladies dancing, 10 lords a-leaping, 11 pipers piping, and 12 drummers drumming 01:37:25 That's on the 12th day 01:38:51 hppavilion[1]: 12 partridges, 22 turtle doves, 30 french hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese, 42 swans, 40 maids, 36 ladies... wait, isn't that the wrong order 01:39:33 hm nope 01:39:34 * moonythedwarf grabs a sort() 01:39:44 oerjan: something seems wrong there hth 01:40:07 shachaf: i've been mixing up the last four :( 01:40:38 Or 12 partridges in 12 pear trees, 22 turtle doves, 30 french hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golen rings, 42(!!!) swans a-swimming, 40 maids a-milking, 36 ladies dancing, 30 lords a-leaping, 22 pipers piping, 12 drummers drumming? 01:40:41 did you see https://twitter.com/luqui/status/770725569151447041 01:40:50 (Yes, oerjan beat me, but I wasn't going to give up on my typing 01:41:01 p. good huh 01:41:14 hppavilion[1]: you also forgot the geese hth 01:41:37 oerjan: fortunately you're a geeser 01:41:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:41:49 Ah, yes, 42 geese a-laying 01:41:51 (!!!) 01:41:59 :t (!!!) 01:42:00 error: 01:42:00 • Variable not in scope: !!! 01:42:00 • Perhaps you meant ‘!!’ (imported from Data.List) 01:42:03 shocking 01:42:07 maybe i shouldn't make fun of oerjan's age 01:42:10 exclamating. 01:42:18 what does oerjan think 01:42:36 it's illogical since i'm not 42 anymore hth 01:43:06 Now to calculate the price... 01:43:14 (well, looks like someone already did) 01:44:36 Totals at 376 (364 if you consider "partridge in a pear tree" to be a single gift, but it's clearly two separate gifts) 01:44:56 a partridge in a pear tree is one gift 01:45:01 Is there any mathematical significance to 364(+1=365)? 01:45:17 No, it's two- the partridge and pear tree are two separate items, they're just bundled into one 01:45:31 just be glad the pears are not in season or you'd have to count them hth 01:45:32 (Is this going to be one of those things that can trigger flame wars like "couple" or "."? 01:45:33 ) 01:45:39 Ah, yes 01:45:40 > sum [i*(12-i) | i <- [1..12]] 01:45:43 286 01:45:50 shachaf: No, 13-i 01:45:57 > sum [i*(13-i) | i <- [1..12]] 01:46:00 364 01:46:03 thx tdh 01:46:07 spot of the convolution, governor? 01:46:07 how are they separate if they're bundled? 01:46:08 You receive gifts on the 12th day too 01:46:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MOUNTAINEER CHICKEN). 01:46:32 deltab: They come together, but you could regift the Partridge and Pear Tree to different people 01:46:34 it's certainly convoluted. 01:48:52 ...huh, the "5 gold rings" might actually be a type of bird (a "ring-necked pheasant") 01:49:36 There's a town in Alaska called "Chicken" 01:49:50 They have been gearing up for war with Turkey for the last 8 months 01:50:41 i wonder how useful a pair of 10D scissors would be 01:51:01 moonythedwarf: There are different types of scissors!? 01:51:47 you know, *holds up a 4 dimensional pair, and snips hppavilion[1]'s day in half with it*, like those 01:52:10 Oh 01:52:19 OH 10-dimensional scissors 01:52:26 Wait, are there 3-dimensional scissors in 4D? 01:52:57 /shrug *snips more off of hppavilion[1]'s day* 01:54:20 I was looking up "on the 18th day of christmas" 01:54:39 I was suggested "bleeding on the 18th day of menstrual cycle" 01:54:48 lol 01:54:48 Please see a doctor if you ever consider googling that. 01:54:50 It is not supposed to be "4 calling birds", it is supposed to be "colly birds" (black), and there is twelve lords leaping, and the rings are actual rings and not birds. 01:56:04 Ah, really? 01:56:13 zzo38: oh you've also heard the lords last? 01:56:24 hm i guess it's just one of the variations, then. 01:56:26 Yes, it is supposed to be twelve 01:56:31 Wikipedia disagrees 01:57:12 oerjan: Yeah, the last four can be rearranged however you wnat 01:57:47 Ooh, 12 = "bells a-ringing" 11 = "ladies spinning" is a nice combo 01:58:20 Twelve lords is the proper way. Ten lords is a very common varation. 01:58:22 making an esolang is impossible when you can't get any feedback >.> 01:58:30 10 = "asses racing" per Sharp 1905 01:59:18 Wikipedia uses 10 lords 02:00:09 Well, they are wrong; it is supposed to be twelve. 02:00:47 APNG: people have seen so many lousy esolangs that you have to explain why your language is more interesting than average before they bother to look hth 02:01:23 oerjan, its goal is to become an IR or IL for my 'real' language 02:01:24 * oerjan isn't looking too often these days, either. 02:02:32 I only call it an esolang because it's not meant to be used directly 02:03:22 even I don't know how to use it, personally .-. 02:03:31 altho it's in a really unfinished state I guess... 02:05:16 https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl 02:05:23 "Prexcl is an esoteric proof-of-concept programming language. It's being used to test some concepts for Voxcl." 02:05:44 version 0.0.3 02:06:18 On the pith day of christmas 02:06:31 it's line-based too so that makes it a pain to REPL :/ 02:07:00 (would love to REPL it) 02:08:36 Voxcl is what anyways? 02:09:13 "On the 47th day of Christmas stderr gave to me: G" 02:12:01 "On the 404th day of christmas my browser gave to me: ε" 02:12:33 zzo38: Who decides what's the proper way and what's a variation? 02:12:46 zzo38: you seem to be arguing for wikipedia's 1780 version; note that it did not have the modern melody. 02:13:30 the first instance of the modern melody had lords 10th. 02:15:15 -!- keemyb has joined. 02:15:54 (1909 version) 02:18:31 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( What is the opposite of a Purity Ring? ) 02:19:23 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: a wedding ring obviously 02:19:45 \oren\: No, a wedding ring is the level up from a purity ring 02:19:54 zzo38, the other language I'm making, for use by humans 02:19:55 Purity ring is "promising to remain abstinent until marriage" 02:19:59 general-purpose-ish 02:20:06 mostly oriented towards autistic ppl 02:20:14 (such as myself) 02:20:36 there are programming languages _not_ oriented toward autistic people? 02:20:51 that actually work? 02:21:16 oerjan, yes 02:21:18 the C preprocessor 02:21:36 APNG: Oooh, I want to know :) 02:21:43 I was spectrum until the DSM-V 02:22:03 hppavilion[1], huh? 02:22:13 APNG: Language for autistic people 02:22:17 so it's not this you wanna know about? http://jhnet.co.uk/articles/cpp_magic 02:22:25 No 02:22:54 (And let's be honest, I'll probably be spectrum again in the DSM VI because someone's probably going to protest the change) 02:23:04 hppavilion[1], what change? 02:23:25 APNG: The DSM-V reclassified Asperger's as not autism 02:24:07 Wait 02:24:11 uh, last I checked the DSM-V removed asperger's diagnosis and made autism include what was previously asperger's 02:24:18 Wikipedia is saying the exact opposite 02:24:23 APNG: Huh, I guess I was wrong 02:24:54 x-ray autism 02:25:19 hppavilion[1], so uh random question do you stim often? 02:25:28 @wn stim 02:25:31 No match for "stim". 02:26:39 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimming 02:27:17 I love sound stims btw 02:27:32 Knuckle cracking may count; I do it pretty much obsessively (often only a few minutes after I've already done it, thus meaning there's no result) 02:27:51 ah 02:27:58 But not particularly otherwise 02:28:09 APNG: Is this language something like Lojban? 02:28:16 . o O ( hm is that why i keep chewing my tongue ) 02:28:49 hppavilion[1], lojban? 02:28:59 hppavilion[1], uh, well 02:29:05 I'm not sure if you can call voxcl a "language" 02:29:10 APNG: It's a spoken language designed to be 100% unambiguous 02:30:38 APNG: How so? 02:30:47 It said "for use by humans" 02:30:56 hppavilion[1], yes, for use by humans 02:31:01 (Wait, you mean a natural language, don't you?) 02:31:04 no 02:31:15 it's similar to piet 02:31:18 but user friendly 02:31:27 and stuff 02:32:40 (voxcl is, at least... prexcl is uh... definitely not...) 02:33:06 (at least not in its current form) 02:33:13 "The first rule of time travel is that any and all modifications made to the timeline result in Hitler winning World War II. Run over a hippy in 1968? Hitler wins." 02:33:17 Oh :( 02:41:06 hppavilion[1], I'll need testers for it too :P 02:41:25 but if I get prexcl functional enough, it'll be much easier to develop voxcl 02:43:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:50:44 question about te standards here 02:50:44 ~>solve math.js pi*(8^8i) 02:50:45 [21:38.55] 5.2707178533289135e+7i 02:50:59 is that enough to be at minimum a bit useful? 02:51:01 :P 02:57:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:02:05 > pi*(8**(0:+8)) 03:02:08 (-1.8842672676782886) :+ (-2.5137902189812014) 03:02:36 hm nope 03:02:51 > pi*(0:+8^8) 03:02:53 0.0 :+ 5.2707178533289135e7 03:04:41 looks like my bot at least knows better formatting :P 03:08:19 anyone here used the CAS Cocoa5? 03:22:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 03:32:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:38:34 The Other Side is a fun episode of Stargate 03:41:45 yeah 03:42:07 Very good episode 03:43:17 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 17.65 832 nuke 03:43:17 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 2109.44126407687 03:50:53 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_budget_film is one thing 03:50:58 I want to see a negative budget film 03:52:37 lol 03:54:28 * moonythedwarf grabs the 4D scissors again 03:55:26 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that would I guess be a film where people are actively taking money from you because you're making it 03:55:50 \oren\: Yeah? 03:56:01 Though you could also make profit via negative remuneration 04:00:58 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:06:07 "There's no [i] in \"I\"" 04:06:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:08:06 \oren\: a budget is how much you spend, not how much people give you, i think 04:08:26 so it's a movie where people give you money to make it. seems reasonable. 04:10:39 How does one indicate that an equation is to be yelled? 04:13:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 04:14:58 By specifying "yell" on it. How this is done it depend on the context 04:23:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:29:28 whoa whoa whoa, FireFly is freenode/staff? 04:29:39 Yup 04:30:52 Only since fairly recently, though 04:31:42 Congrefly 04:31:53 sf\ffFf 04:32:51 nice regex, that 04:32:53 and thanks 04:33:04 the regex is just \f 04:33:09 -!- Guest26671 has joined. 04:33:18 Yes, but deceivingly using f as the separator 04:33:23 i guess freenode decided to HireFly 04:33:39 I guess so 04:34:28 Hmm 04:35:27 i'm guessing they're not paying you, though 04:37:53 zzo38: Would "Bands with Other Bandits" be a good ability? 04:38:30 yeah, it's just volunteer stuff I guess 04:38:36 i would HireFly at that price 04:38:54 what do you do? 04:39:49 Who, me? 04:39:53 bit of everything, though most of it is "support"-style stuff 04:39:59 Oh, FireFly. 04:47:32 -!- Guest26671 has left. 04:47:59 `? firefly 04:48:00 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 04:48:08 can't argue with that 05:05:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:06:52 . o O ( this is a fiendish plot to avoid my swattings ) 05:07:18 What is? 05:07:43 shachaf: getting staffed hth 05:08:03 Wait, getting staffed lets you avoid swatting? 05:08:20 Hmm, FireFly is an op in here now. 05:10:30 wait, is he 05:10:51 5 freenode-staff +AFRefiorstv [modified 4y 11w 2d ago] 05:11:30 does that really work? 05:11:36 -!- augur has joined. 05:11:37 Does it not work? 05:11:40 If not, why is it in there? 05:11:46 well it's not his account name is it 05:12:13 Oh, I figured it was special somehow. 05:12:14 shachaf: because of freenode's policy of putting lapsed founderships there 05:12:24 it's been there for a long time 05:12:37 since andreou got deregistered, maybe 05:14:18 (note the F flag) 05:14:59 of course, i don't know what powers arbitrary staff has 05:15:22 perhaps he can just tell chanserv to op him anywhere 05:16:01 Maybe he can do that but he isn't supposed to unless a channel has freenode-staff in the op list. 05:16:11 WELL 05:16:28 i'm skeptical that it matters. 05:16:46 maybe you should swat him and see what happens hth 05:16:59 what do you think about fft 05:17:22 it's fast, it's furry, it's transformational. 05:17:29 was i close? 05:17:31 fancy fourier transform 05:17:39 pretty close 05:17:59 I went to conal's talk about it the other day: http://conal.net/talks/generic-fft.pdf 05:18:14 okay 05:18:28 It's a neat trick. 05:18:37 But maybe I don't fully understand it. 05:19:04 * oerjan doesn't really know what the trick is, he just knows fourier transforms in general. and has forgotten most of the proof details. 05:19:14 What do you do if you want to do FFT of a prime size? 05:19:36 work in Z/(pZ) 05:20:00 fourier transforms work in any locally compact abelian group. 05:20:25 oerjan: The trick seems to be that if you do an FFT of size N*M, you can do a nested FFT of size M and N. 05:20:32 But a bunch of things cancel out so you can do less work. 05:20:37 ...ok 05:20:48 Or something. 05:21:03 well that's just taking product of groups 05:21:18 assuming M and N are relatively prime 05:21:37 It works for any M and N. 05:21:46 Though there's a special version that uses relatively prime M and N. 05:21:52 aha 05:21:58 But often people use a power of 2, and one of M or N is 2. 05:23:09 s-or-and- 05:23:33 shachaf: There is no "Bandit" subtype I think? 05:23:42 zzo38: That's true, but there is a Bandit card. 05:23:47 So they could probably add the subtype. 05:23:56 If such a subtype is added, then, possibly (if the card to surround might help) 05:24:12 Or they could add a Bandit supertype. 05:24:52 Neither seems needed to me actually 05:25:06 I guess they could just add a Bandit type, in that case. 05:25:19 That also doesn't seem right 05:25:30 Subtype would be best if they were to add it at all. 05:28:20 Other kind of idea can be "bands with other creatures with bands with other" 05:40:45 Another thing to write might be "Whenever an object is countered, put a +1/+1 counter on ~." 05:55:31 Please review this code tell me if you see anything wrong or whatever else http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/artifact/890c961cedf74de7 05:56:02 For plain text download is http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=890c961cedf74de7997707e7899fe6d3eb5cc5c5 06:05:31 Why do you use Fossil? 06:06:16 It is better than Git 06:08:09 How? 06:27:24 The program is a single file and the commands are simpler too, and it work better for "cathedral" style project, and it is just better the way I work 06:35:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:42:10 Also, it can use SQL for ticket queries. 06:46:46 -!- Moony has joined. 06:46:49 moo 06:49:32 I did find a list of what disadvantages people mentioned about Fossil, but it is from six years ago, some of the things mentioned there are no longer true, and some are actually advantages to me. Specifically, the ticketing system using SQL is good, and lacking a rich text editor is also good. "The lack of deleting anything" and "No versioning of Fossil itself" are mentioned, but are no longer true. 06:59:03 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:15:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:39:28 -!- izabera has changed nick to elizabera. 07:40:03 -!- elizabera has changed nick to izabera. 07:51:22 i downloaded a movie and the video quality is perfect and the audio is fine too, but the audio track is slightly slower than the video 07:51:48 like, after 1 hour or so the audio comes 2s sooner than it should 07:51:57 how do i fix this? :X 08:02:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:03:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:22:12 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:48:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:28:27 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49681&oldid=49678 * Qwerp-Derp * (+233) 09:29:00 [wiki] [[Logicode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49682 * Qwerp-Derp * (+2924) Added Logicode page 09:29:56 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49683&oldid=49649 * Qwerp-Derp * (+15) Added Logicode. 10:19:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:45:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:05:14 -!- Moony has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:09:20 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:17:29 -!- carado has joined. 11:52:02 Maybe he can do that but he isn't supposed to unless a channel has freenode-staff in the op list ← freenode-staff is on the ACL because it's the dummy account used for 'successor' for single-# (on-topic) channels 11:52:29 Ah. 11:52:36 Maybe you need to shut this channel down now? 11:52:40 It's not very official. 11:52:50 though incidentally there *is* an ACL entry that is supposed to indicate "it's fine if staff helps us deal with spam", but it's *@freenode/staff/* 11:53:06 Ah, that must be what I was thinking of. 11:53:13 shachaf: not really, and I'm sure it's plenty official as a channel for esoteric.org 11:53:15 I've seen channels that did that. 11:53:26 I mean, official enough, that is 11:53:30 http://esoteric.org/ looks very official 11:53:38 er 11:53:49 esolangs.org* 11:53:50 >.> 11:55:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:06:02 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:07:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:16:57 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:35:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:47:24 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 13:21:20 -!- yorick has joined. 13:42:42 so how did #esoteric survive anyway? 13:45:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal hmm, #esocrypt... not even the founder is there anymore. 14:10:11 is there a unicode character that's 2 columns wide and it looks like a circle? 14:11:09 i tried with () but it doesn't really look like a circle and it's hollow 14:13:31 ⬤ maybe? 14:13:43 my font doesn't have it :( 14:13:53 but that's cool 14:14:24 You could also use a fullwidth O if you don't mind being very semantically incorrect 14:14:44 (and hollow) 14:45:51 `unidecode 〠 14:45:52 ​[U+3020 POSTAL MARK FACE] 16:17:47 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 17:01:06 -!- polybot has joined. 17:02:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:06:48 <\oren\> izabera: you're thinking of 〇 17:06:55 <\oren\> probably 17:07:04 hollow too 17:07:26 anyway i gave up 17:07:51 i wanted to make a ncurses goban but it's clearly impossible with custom fonts 17:07:54 without* 17:09:36 <\oren\> there are lots of characters that are circles with somehting inside 17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋐㋑㋒㋓㋔㋕㋖㋗㋘㋙㋚㋛㋜㋝㋞㋟ 17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋠㋡㋢㋣㋤㋥㋦㋧㋨㋩㋪㋫㋬㋭㋮㋯ 17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋰㋱㋲㋳㋴㋵㋶㋷㋸㋹㋺㋻㋼㋽㋾ 17:10:30 <\oren\> as well as ones for every jamo 17:16:29 izabera: apparently you're supposed to use ⚆ ⚇ ⚈ ⚉ http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2600.pdf 17:16:54 http://xen.firefly.nu/up/2016-09-03_181646.png 17:29:35 go stones don't have dots 17:30:51 i have no idea what "go markers" are 17:32:31 FireFly: i thought you played go? 17:33:07 I do 17:33:09 well 17:33:17 sort of a little bit 17:33:53 izabera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)#Notation_and_recording_games based on this it seems it's used for kifus or something 17:34:05 But I dunno what the dots are supposed to be for 17:34:57 o.o kifus don't have stones 17:35:02 they only have move numbers 17:35:37 http://www.asahi.com/igo/photogallery/image/TKY200609210129.jpg 17:36:20 Yeah 17:43:21 is that a sealed move? 17:43:59 yes 17:49:49 -!- polybot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:49:55 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 18:00:33 Bloop 18:11:53 izabera: FireFly: There's a thread on the Unicode mailing list about that: http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-March/003412.html 18:14:05 There's a few pointers to examples of use, e.g. http://library.msri.org/books/Book29/files/kim.pdf (diagram in chapter 4) 18:16:17 Though the actual answer seems to be that they just got dragged along by something called the "STIX (font) project", the records of which don't happen to mention where they came from. 18:16:53 Or something like that, anyway. 18:19:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:52:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ps4star * New user account 19:16:00 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 19:17:50 hey look https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/src/1cbfca8c3a31/if.prexcl?at=master 19:17:55 I haz conditionals 19:39:11 I'm provisionally appalled. 19:41:31 -!- augur has joined. 19:50:32 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:51:53 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 20:01:17 -!- keemyb has joined. 20:17:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:21:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:09 -!- Effilry has joined. 20:23:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:23:50 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 20:24:18 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:25:28 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 20:26:04 -!- augur has joined. 20:27:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:26 In you all's opinion, whats the optimal precision a calculator should have (in digits) 20:46:14 3 20:46:48 even for one that does algebra and allows function definitions? 20:47:29 in that case what do you need numbers for? 20:47:54 but basically I don't think that there is any such optimum 20:48:13 so this: [02:27.19] ~>solve math.js 3600/60/60 # Accuracy check 20:48:13 [02:28.14] ~>solve math.js sin(3600)/60/60 # Accuracy check 20:48:13 [02:28.15] -7.280109972724905e-5 20:48:23 derp 20:48:31 i tried to edit it 20:48:32 i failed 20:56:37 We need more warning symbols 20:56:51 like what? 20:58:07 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 21:01:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:05:42 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:11:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:12:23 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:13:28 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:13:32 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 21:16:27 Hm. When I press tab in python-mode, the status line just says "Wrong type argument: number-or-marker-p, nil", and doesn't indent anything. That's not optimal. 21:30:34 -!- augur has joined. 22:25:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:43 -!- augur has joined. 23:06:37 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:19:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:24:46 @tell ais523 i notice that two more users have managed to perform the procedure, but am disturbed that one of them failed to resubmit the page creation that required it. 23:24:46 Consider it noted. 23:24:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:26:33 @tell fizzie i notice that two more users have managed to perform the new procedure today, but am disturbed that one of them failed to resubmit the page creation that required it. there _really_ needs to be some adjustment and i don't think it can be done purely through the filters. 23:26:33 Consider it noted. 23:29:56 [wiki] [[Simplified Circuit Diagram]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49684 * Oerjan * (+2857) Page creation by [[User:Ps4star]] that was caught in the spam filter. Our new procedure really needs some adjustment... 23:31:42 *sigh* 23:38:54 The only solution is to teach the spam filter to identify text about computer science-related topics 23:39:12 [wiki] [[User talk:Ps4star]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49685 * Oerjan * (+300) Created your page for you 23:40:46 FireFly: i don't think our wiki really works that way. Of course if we could at least use one of the more well-used filtering solutions... 23:41:37 It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek 23:41:55 Just throw machine learning at it; that'll solve everything! 23:41:57 i had sort of half-retired from wiki work but now i feel almost like i'm the only active admin... 23:42:00 FireFly: YEP 23:42:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:42:16 then it'll shut out the rest of us and take over the world 23:47:16 -!- kragniz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:24 -!- kragniz has joined. 23:54:42 What sort of thing would you want to have? 23:54:58 well i'm not sure what really exists 23:55:24 but something that was good enough that we could open up the wiki for anonymous edits again would be ideal. 23:57:03 There's at least one daily-updating IP block list that I've seen recommended, at http://www.stopforumspam.com/downloads/ 23:58:46 pikhq: So you're not going to the bay area #esoteric meeting in October? 23:58:48 also the idea of having some kind of emergency shutdown for when the spammers get through nevertheless seemed to have stalled after the new (brutal) filter got added. 23:59:08 Quite unlikely. 23:59:51 . o O ( there'll be just shachaf and an irc terminal ) 23:59:59 Well, fizzie will be here. 2016-09-04: 00:00:02 ooh 00:00:03 But he may be reluctant. 00:00:08 The Bay Area is expensive as shit when most possible employers see lack of degree and stop talking to you. 00:00:22 pikhq: Is that actually true? 00:00:32 That at least *appears* to be the case. 00:00:35 Even with Google experience? 00:01:03 I can't say for sure because I don't know for sure why I've had so much trouble, but that's what I'm inferring. 00:01:16 What approach have you been using? 00:01:32 fizzie: maybe try that list, and we can see how much it helps. 00:02:13 Finding people, sending resumes, along with talking to recruiters, etc. Mostly I've been getting interviews that seem to go well and then get turned down. 00:02:51 Often shortly after they ask about details of my college education. 00:03:38 :( 00:03:40 I mean, granted I don't know for sure that's what's doing it, but... it sure seems to be the case. 00:05:48 oerjan: I will try to see if there's a reasonably low-effort way to do it with the setup we have. As for the emergency shutdown, I'm not sure how to implement that. I know there's a bunch of relatively stable and well-supported/updated access control style extensions that could maybe be retrofitted to do it. 00:08:52 -!- Robdgreat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:09:18 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 00:10:36 But, yeah. Regardless, not too bad a time for me to finish up my degree. 00:14:11 @tell ais523 oh wait, Ps4Star didn't actually introduce emself. hm... 00:14:11 Consider it noted. 00:15:15 I saw their account creation, and went to have a look at the abusefilter log, but it hadn't triggered yet at that time. 00:15:30 [wiki] [[User talk:Ps4star]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49686&oldid=49685 * Oerjan * (+77) Oops I misread what happened a bit. 00:16:05 ah. 00:22:55 * oerjan feels less alone 00:23:24 oerjan: helloerjan 00:23:36 got any good puns for me today? 00:24:12 shellochaf. 00:24:59 surprisingly, i'm out. 00:25:29 ...I was hoping that would be followed by "quit: oerjan" 00:27:14 ok 00:27:23 That would have been a good pun. 00:27:29 I didn't actually want you to quit. 00:27:50 shocking 00:28:16 What's a good way to render directed graphs semi-interactively? 00:28:31 Probably in JavaScript, because that's where everything is nowadays. 00:28:39 I want to render sorting algorithms as discussed in this channel a few days ago. 00:31:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:33:41 -!- Zarutian_ has quit (Quit: Zarutian_). 00:43:05 -!- xkapastel has joined. 01:24:53 [wiki] [[User:Fizzie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49687&oldid=48912 * Fizzie * (+0) Post-upgrade edit test for 1.27.1. 01:25:11 That doesn't help at all with the spam, but was all I could manage to actually get done. 01:30:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:37:13 [wiki] [[Special:Log/abusefilter]] modify * Ais523 * modified [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/9/diff/prev/54]]) 01:44:57 -!- zgrep has quit (Excess Flood). 01:45:33 -!- zgrep has joined. 02:13:45 hm? 02:16:32 i suppose that change might help a little, although it won't help those people who get put off altogether. 02:53:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:31:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:49:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:00:30 . o O ( I wish I could put Python scripts on my router. Maybe I'll have to figure out a way to do that someday 04:10:56 oerjan: i can help. 04:12:59 quintopia: hm? 04:14:37 did you read that book about the scottish cryptid hunters mauled by the asbestos-furred beast against which their fire defense was useless? 04:15:09 no. 04:15:25 * oerjan starts realizing _what_ quintopia is helping with... 04:15:29 The Unlightable Bear-Being of Ness? 04:16:36 (i *think* spoonerisms count as puns still) 04:19:56 maybe. it's a bit of knife-edge. 04:20:02 *of a 04:20:24 why must muphry's law apply to puns 04:22:09 or discussions thereof 04:22:46 ... 04:23:35 i really like that one tho. dunno if it would make any sense in norway tho 04:23:45 so maybe you cant use 04:25:27 the book is called "Tilværelsens uutholdelige letthet" in norwegian. it might need a bit of rethinking... 04:26:29 heh 04:27:22 the only animal in there is "vær" which means ram. 04:28:06 give up. even you cannot surmount it. 04:28:21 shocking 04:29:25 so what have i missed? 04:30:36 some linguistic porthellos, oren's irc script calculator... 04:30:51 `unicode snowflake 04:30:55 ​❄ 04:31:08 ❄calc 2+2 04:31:08 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 04:31:12 darn 04:31:24 ❄help 04:31:24 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 04:31:28 Spoonerism*alliteration = 0 04:31:55 ❄ocal 2+2 04:31:55 <\oren\> ☃ 04:31:59 ❄ocal 2+2p 04:31:59 <\oren\> ☃ 2 04:32:02 oops 04:32:07 ❄ocal 2 2+p 04:32:08 <\oren\> ☃ 4 04:32:12 there you go. 04:32:19 What is ❄ doing now? 04:32:22 Wait 04:32:24 ❄ hi 04:32:24 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 04:32:27 Huh. 04:32:31 \oren\: What client are you using? 04:32:44 irssi 04:32:46 OK 04:32:59 (/ctcp \oren\ VERSION) 04:33:32 there were some other commands too, which i've forgotten. 04:33:55 sad i missed todays porthellos. what were they? 04:34:03 oh not today 04:34:18 i was assuming you'd been gone for a while. 04:34:29 but boily hasn't been on yet. 04:35:01 Ah, yes 04:35:07 yesterday though it was... maadwoerjan iirc 04:35:24 a language i'd never heard of. 04:35:26 Are porthellos being standardized now? 04:35:39 hppavilion[1]: not particularly. 04:36:16 but in our ever-ongoing quest to think of new ones, boily and i started looking up other languages 04:37:00 which we have to guess 04:51:35 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAA 04:52:05 <\oren\> I have too many spacecraft doing stuff at once 04:53:13 any space junk creating collisions 04:55:21 <\oren\> oerjan: no, but several things have mysteriously exploded 04:56:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:56:31 <\oren\> no casualties so far, but there's like 13 tourists on various spacecraft so it's only a matter of time 04:57:30 13 tourists is bad luck 05:02:20 <\oren\> yeah counted them. 13 tourists, on four different tour craft... 05:08:40 <\oren\> If I can land this craft successfully, there will only be nine 05:10:39 . o O ( And then there were nine ) 05:11:32 \oren\: also if unsuccessfully hth 05:17:29 \oren\: Bah! Everyone knows that if you HAVE to have 13 people in separate groups you should at least divide them evenly among the groups or the luck becomes 13x worse! 05:22:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:27:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:32:25 a prime suggestion if i ever saw one. 05:47:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:50:11 Can you explain this question? "If I have a Ouija board in my house, but I only use it at other properties, will my house still be whatever you people say it truly is?" 05:55:41 i think you should ask in the other kind of #esoteric hth 05:57:52 my hunch is, though, that it relates to some superstition about divination affecting houses where they are performed, but i have not heard that so i don't even know if it's supposed to be good or bad 05:58:20 and that might very well depend on who you ask. i'd expect christians to think it's bad and new agers to think it's good... 05:59:46 (the former because divination might be seen as magic or devil worship) 06:00:40 and the question presumably asks whether whatever the effect is happens even if the ouija board is only stored in the house. 06:03:08 (The question was posted on an article about a kind of ouija board in QWERTY order, and mentioning ideomotor effect, and that you might use a computer on-screen keyboard with hover mode. The people who wrote this article are not occult.) 06:04:12 <\oren\> Landing sucessful! nothing exploded 06:04:35 ic. i think the questioner may have been confused by the article and thought it _was_ about something occult, then. 06:07:33 <\oren\> we got almost a million funds from these tourists for bringing them home from the Mun safely 06:08:34 or perhaps there was a different comment that was, and which it was responding to. 06:09:07 \oren\: money from munatics 06:11:55 <\oren\> the great thing about his is that the vehicle was an SSTO and therefore we barely spent any money to get them ther and back 06:16:36 <\oren\> just fuel. 06:35:43 oerjan: That was the first comment. 06:36:34 zzo38: maybe it was to a deleted comment. (just theorizing here...) 06:40:13 Possibly 06:40:50 I have not checked the history, but even so they could have deleted it from the history too. 06:46:58 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 06:52:22 -!- augur has joined. 07:03:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:10:52 -!- augur has joined. 07:19:24 Ha! 07:19:45 Minsky once offered a prize to anyone who could stop the Loebner Prize competition 07:19:54 Loebner claimed that made Minsky a co-sponsor 07:21:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:31:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:33:50 [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49688&oldid=49639 * Erikkonstas * (+13) HUGE FAULT!! 07:48:37 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:49:45 [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49689&oldid=49688 * Erikkonstas * (+197) faults 07:52:24 [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49690&oldid=49689 * Erikkonstas * (+91) /* Optimizer */ 07:54:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:56:46 -!- augur has joined. 07:58:57 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49691&oldid=49682 * Qwerp-Derp * (-2) 08:09:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-LhWP_T0IA this is the most amazing sword swallowing acrobat i've seen in the past 10 minutes 08:33:02 "Unreliable Omniscient Third-Person Narrator" 08:33:11 "Omniscient First Person" 09:24:21 -!- carado has joined. 09:55:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:16:31 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 39.65 1755 nuke 10:16:31 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 1963.13131378555 10:40:49 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:03:00 -!- gamemanj has joined. 11:07:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:30:33 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:52:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:28:19 -!- primo_ has joined. 12:29:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:54:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:59:21 -!- primo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:40:40 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:46:22 when truth tables are built into your language https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/src/2085607cd948/if.prexcl?at=master 13:47:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:48:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:51:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:52:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:01:33 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:32:51 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:40:21 I made a maths joke, I'm afraid 15:40:32 What do you call a sporadic group which lives in the Republic of Ireland? 15:41:44 I probably don't know enough group theory to get this 15:45:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:46:24 The Munster Group 15:50:58 I wonder how well known the provinces of Ireland are (I don't even recognize their names) 15:56:27 Taneb: Dr. Stravinsky was a bit of an eccentric fellow, even for a pure mathematics professor. 15:57:02 But he was nonetheless a good friend to have, because of his extensive personal library, full of rare and exotic mathematical texts. 15:57:46 He was an expert curator, and his thousands of books were maintained in meticulous order; he was always able to find any book almost instantly. 15:58:01 B-) 15:59:08 But the department chair had an issue with him: he hadn't fulfilled his mandatory service to the university in quite some time. 16:00:23 Eventually, Dr. Stravinsky was called into the chair's office, and she said "You are required to put in service hours, so if you won't find something to do, I will. I've arranged for you to go down to the library and help them catalogue their books. This should be right up your alley." 16:00:45 Realizing that his job was on the line, Dr. Stravinsky begrudgingly went over to the library to work. 16:00:51 One week later, he was in the chair's office again. 16:00:54 I'm guessing nobody in the library found any books. 16:01:52 "The library tells me that you're useless sorting! How is it that you have a meticulously arranged personal library, yet when you go to the university library, you don't even seem to know where to start?" 16:02:06 Dr. Stravinsky just replied, "I can only order well when given the choice!" 16:02:19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanks'_square_forms_factorization in this algorithm, how do i choose k? 16:02:23 alercah, ... 16:02:36 If I knew how to make a squinty face smiley I would 16:02:41 Also, good joke :D 16:02:45 "squinty face"? 16:03:06 Thank you! 16:03:52 I don't get the joke, but TBH I'm still trying to resolve the ambiguity of the word "choice". 16:03:58 It could be the choice (of how to sort the books) 16:04:07 or the choice (to sort the books) 16:04:24 gamemanj, the latter, also the axiom 16:05:51 izabera: "[...] a small multiplier k. [...] Otherwise try another value of k." ... sounds to me like you start from 1 and increment until you're successful or give up 16:06:06 when do i give up? 16:06:34 gamemanj: it doesn't really matter. the pun is on the axiom of choice 16:06:45 and its equivalence with the well-ordering principle 16:07:02 now that makes sense 16:07:15 but you see, I'm not exactly a maths person 16:07:34 I'm a "why on earth did Wikipedia write all these expressions in this weird notation, when it makes so much more sense in code form" person 16:07:46 (aka. a dumb idiot) 16:11:42 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:19:09 izabera: I have no idea. How does this compare to Pollard's rho method? (which is exprected to take O(sqrt(p)) steps where p is the smallest prime factor of N, so O(N^(1/4)) as well) 16:19:44 But I don't have time for this right now. 16:19:47 people on mathoverflow say that squfof is faster up to 64 bit 16:20:13 https://mathoverflow.net/questions/114018/fastest-way-to-factor-integers-260 16:20:20 actually they said 60 bits 16:20:59 but in that case I guess you simply never give up 16:21:15 ok 16:21:30 (you should do primality tests in advance, of course, to avoid factoring primes) 16:21:38 ok 16:21:54 deterministic miller rabin first, and then k from 1 to infinity and beyond 16:22:11 -!- petsu has joined. 16:42:27 < 3 < 3 16:43:53 ♥ ♥ 😸 16:46:49 : D : D 16:47:05 http://mashable.com/2015/10/15/penis-emoji/#dSSp2lZKwmqi 17:03:50 so like i just tore off my pinky toe toe nail 17:04:03 anyone wa nt to see the pile of nails i've picked off 17:04:06 thanks for listening 17:11:38 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:12:58 -!- leedsutdsman has joined. 17:18:32 -!- petsu has changed nick to cyra. 17:35:06 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:41:28 -!- leedsutdsman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:04:23 -!- phinary has joined. 18:05:04 -!- gamemanj has joined. 18:16:21 -!- phinary has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:22:09 -!- Robdgreat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:22:18 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:24:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:35:04 -!- shachaf has joined. 18:35:44 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 18:54:38 -!- gremlins has joined. 18:55:43 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:03:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:06:02 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:09:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:13:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:28:32 TIL the National Film Registry, America's DVD collection where we store all the good movies in case the world ends in fire so we'll have something to watch after Armageddon, includes Star Wars (now: Star Wars: A New Hope) and Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back 19:28:37 But not Return of the Jedi 19:33:17 -!- Reece` has joined. 19:37:03 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:46:55 How come? 19:48:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit#United_States "The Library of Congress does not retain all works." huh. 19:48:14 DVD won't help; you will need to store them in uncompressed unencrypted format, in case the document for DVD-video decoding is also destroyed by the fire. 19:49:41 We have two libraries that are required by law to keep copies of all documents sent as legal deposit 19:50:15 For preservation and whatnot 20:00:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:05:40 -!- phinary has joined. 20:06:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:10:38 -!- phinary has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:13:31 zzo38: but I don't understand the YUV spec! 20:14:26 (/NTSC/PAL/Kentucky Signal Encoding/fbdev archival format/if you are still reading this, the last two entries are fake) 20:21:06 Then watch them in grayscale. 20:26:59 zzo38: what about the CRT specifications? 20:28:59 I don't know; you can figure out what to do 20:29:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:42:13 So I've thought of a good toy for children... (the idea, of course, being that in an apocalypse, one might survive): The Electron Gun! 21:02:03 is it made only out of electrons? 21:02:34 izabera: Sadly, no. 21:03:03 But it fires electrons, with pinpoint accuracy! (Warning. Bringing an Electron Gun to a water gun fight may result in death.) 21:05:36 how do you manage to target your opponent and bypass the air in between? 21:05:49 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:56 Just set the power level high enough, and destroy the air faster than it can refill the space. 21:06:09 (Warning. This may not be scientifically accurate.) 21:06:53 (Though, really, if people had to worry from eye cancer from being too close to CRTs, think about what a completely unguarded beam could do...) 21:11:44 -!- primo_ has joined. 21:20:08 I read that as "made only out of elections" for some reason.. 21:20:21 close enough 21:32:28 -!- augur has joined. 21:35:14 Maybe you know some idea which can help I can make up some Magic: the Gathering cards and some sets and blocks (in some cases, existing blocks). 21:35:44 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:48 I made up some cards but I would hope can make with collaboration. 21:45:41 We can also to make up the "esoteric programming block" of Magic: the Gathering cards. 22:10:12 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:12:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:18:35 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:44:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:57:43 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:13:49 One card was "Human Supremacy Corporation", which is a black and white permanent card which damages non-Human creatures. How I had it before might not be as so good and I wanted to make a better card that does that; do you have idea? 23:29:09 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:38:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:40:37 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:40:45 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:46:56 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:47:57 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:52:11 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 23:52:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:53:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:58:14 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 2016-09-05: 00:01:21 -!- ineiros has joined. 00:12:21 -!- aloril has joined. 00:24:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:28:19 I probably don't know enough group theory to get this <-- i knew enough group theory but not enough irish geography. 00:28:58 I'd actually heard about the monster group, but that is probably more due to casual wikipedia browsing than maths knowledge 00:29:14 well it _is_ the most famous sporadic group. 00:29:21 (and the largest) 00:29:26 It's even listed on WP:UA 00:40:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:44:50 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:45:23 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:15:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:17:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:20:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:26:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:31:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:36:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 01:41:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:42:16 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49692&oldid=49691 * Qwerp-Derp * (+64) 01:43:17 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49693&oldid=49692 * Qwerp-Derp * (+39) 02:03:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:16:17 -!- Robdgreat has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:27 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 02:29:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:33:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:35:14 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:35:15 quintopia: Apparently, flagged half notes are a thing 02:35:20 (I think you're the one I was talking to) 03:15:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:17:30 What's the sound quality like on bone-conduction headphones? 03:18:06 this is relevant to my interests 03:19:43 it's a bit ossified. 03:19:59 * Robdgreat holds up a giant BOOO sign 03:21:11 thank you, i'll be here all week, unless i get dragged away. 04:24:49 `bienvenido Robdgreat 04:24:56 Robdgreat: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) 04:25:20 Ignore the bit about no hablamos espñol. 04:25:40 I thought the welcomes were supposed to be direct translations? 04:25:56 ok, help me out here. which bot am I ignoring? 04:26:04 Are you ignoring HackEgo? 04:26:13 shachaf: it's because of the venezuelans, who wouldn't get the point that this isn't a spanish channel. 04:26:19 `? welcome 04:26:20 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 04:26:23 there we go 04:26:30 I'm going to live to regret unignoring him 04:26:32 `relcome Robdgreat 04:26:34 ​Robdgreat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 04:26:47 trust shachaf to work hard on the regretting part 04:27:11 `slwd welcome//s#!#! Unfortunately, most of us do not speak Spanish.# 04:27:20 shachaf: does this mean that you do speak spanish 04:27:21 <\oren\> man relcome looks a lot better with my new color scheme 04:27:27 Not me. 04:27:47 oerjan: I don't mean that it's false, just irrelevant. 04:28:08 oerjan: Come on, I've made so many improvements to HackEgo. 04:28:13 perhaps. 04:28:23 `? shaventions 04:28:24 shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them. 04:28:32 Without me you'd still be echo > and seding all the time. 04:28:43 tru 04:28:44 And never culpriting, and so on. 04:29:07 `cwlprits shavention 04:29:09 shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf 04:29:31 <\oren\> what'd doag? 04:29:32 `dowg shavention 04:29:37 2016-06-28 slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ 2016-06-25 sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ 2016-06-07 sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ 2016-06-05 sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ 2016-06-05 le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *lis 04:29:53 Pretty sure I shavented some more things since then. 04:30:21 hm i guess i invented the w versions, maybe. 04:30:30 `dog bin/doag 04:30:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found 04:30:38 `doag bin/doag 04:30:40 2016-06-27 mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\\n" -- "$@" 04:30:54 That was in June?! 04:31:12 `` rgrep -l template bin 04:31:16 bin/lastfiles \ bin/hoag \ bin/doag \ bin/macro \ bin/hog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/before 04:32:01 oerjan: Yes, you shavented all the w versions. 04:33:21 <\oren\> `` rgrep -l wisdom bin 04:33:22 bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/learn \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/leann \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/dowg \ bin/learn_append \ bin/howg \ bin/slwd \ bin/forget \ bin/? \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/wisdöm \ bin/cwlprits \ bin/footnote \ bin/wisdom \ bin/ls 04:33:33 `cat bin/wisdöm 04:33:34 ​#!/bin/sh \ wisdom | döts 04:33:38 `` cat bin/ho{,a}g 04:33:39 hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" 04:33:43 `cat bin/döts 04:33:44 ​#!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/" 04:34:15 Are you going to shavent dog for completeness? 04:34:33 nah 04:34:38 `cat bin/lastwisdoms 04:34:39 find .hg/store/data/wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 /bin/ls -t | perl -pe 'use POSIX;chop;$d=strftime("%F",localtime((stat($_))[9]));s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 // =;s=^=/$d/ = if$d ne$p;$p=$d;s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg;s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr hex$1=eg' 04:34:53 classic b_jonas 04:34:59 `cwlprism lastwisdoms 04:35:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cwlprism: not found 04:35:07 `cwlprits lastwisdoms 04:35:08 i just find it slightly inelegant that the a and w modifiers clash in position... 04:35:12 No output. 04:35:13 <\oren\> what about höwg? 04:35:25 also, is a consistently used 04:35:28 oerjan: Ah, good point. 04:35:47 <\oren\> hoawg 04:35:53 <\oren\> howag 04:36:00 <\oren\> haowg 04:36:10 `cat bin/ho{w,a}g 04:36:10 cat: bin/ho{w,a}g: No such file or directory 04:36:14 `` cat bin/ho{w,a}g 04:36:15 hoag "wisdom/$1" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" 04:36:20 Let's see. The etymology is: 04:36:23 hog is hg log 04:36:41 hoag is a variant of hog (that uses --removed to show everything that might be relevant) 04:36:45 It's named after Jonathan Hoag 04:36:49 `` mv bin/h{ow,wa}g 04:36:54 No output. 04:37:04 howg is a variant of howg that has the same pronunciation, but adds wisdom/ 04:37:09 `hwag shavention 04:37:11 ​ slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1 04:37:18 NOT ANY MORE 04:37:23 hwag? 04:37:25 tmns hth 04:37:51 <\oren\> whag 04:38:12 Look, you can't just rename one of them. 04:38:15 What about dowg? 04:38:21 You should document the naming scheme if you 04:38:25 're going to change it. 04:39:17 `mkx bin/howg//echo "howg is deprecated! use hwag instead."; exec hwag "$@" 04:39:19 bin/howg 04:39:42 `` cat bin/dowg 04:39:43 doag "wisdom/$1" 04:40:14 `` mv bin/d{ow,wa}g 04:40:16 No output. 04:41:14 * oerjan feels conflicted 04:42:16 I don't understand this new scheme. 04:42:22 `` mv bin/d{wa,ow}g 04:42:24 No output. 04:42:29 `` mv bin/h{wa,ow}g 04:42:31 No output. 04:42:37 I'd rather revert the whole thing unless there's a consistent rationale or heuristic for figuring out the right script. 04:43:15 OKAY 04:43:20 (DONE) 04:43:34 `` ls bin/*g 04:43:35 bin/anonlog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg \ bin/log \ bin/noping \ bin/pastalog \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastlog \ bin/ping \ bin/pong \ bin/preprocess-mtg \ bin/randomanonlog \ bin/rng \ bin/searchlog \ bin/something 04:43:47 `cat bin/anonlog 04:43:48 ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(grep "<.*>" $file | shuf -n 1)" | sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ fi 04:44:23 `cat bin/something 04:44:23 ​ELF............>.....0@.....@....... ..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....\......\........ ....................`......`.....`......¬....... .................`.....`.....à.......à................ 04:44:27 `` ls bin/{d,h}*g 04:44:28 bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg 04:44:31 `something 04:44:32 Segmentation fault 04:44:36 very good 04:44:45 `` grep -v 'remove' bin/{d,h}*g 04:44:46 bin/dowg:doag "wisdom/$1" \ bin/hog:hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ bin/howg:hoag "wisdom/$1" 04:44:50 `` objdump -d bin/something | paste 04:44:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.15531 04:45:04 `hoag bin/something 04:45:06 ​ ` mv jnk/something bin/something 04:45:06 what's this rubbish? 04:45:13 it's only hog which doesn't use --removed 04:45:20 Yes. 04:45:26 Do we want to standardize on always using --removed? 04:45:41 It gives more complete but often irrelevant output. 04:45:43 <\oren\> Robdgreat: the'yre degugging and modifying the bot in realtime 04:46:21 `dog 04:46:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found 04:46:26 `hog bin/something 04:46:27 ​ ` mv jnk/something bin/something 04:46:33 Er. 04:46:35 `hog jnk/something 04:46:36 ​ ` mv bin/Something jnk/something 04:46:42 `hog bin/Something 04:46:43 ​ ` gcc -x c -o bin/Something wGAUV3ER \ ` gcc -x c waDs9gmT -o bin/Something \ ` gcc -x c UZ3ESUfL -o bin/Something \ ` gcc -x c 6TL7V2mM -o bin/Something \ ` gcc -x c yn9LVhJv -o bin/Something 04:46:52 `hog wGAUV3ER 04:46:53 ​ revert \ fetch http://pastebin.com/raw/wGAUV3ER 04:46:59 `url wGAUV3ER 04:47:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wGAUV3ER 04:47:24 <\oren\> an error ocured 04:49:40 <\oren\> looks like that pastebin is some sort of crude interpreter 04:49:58 yeah one of moon_'s experiments. 04:50:41 (or did he make a wiki page? i've forgotten.) 04:52:04 -!- digin4 has joined. 04:54:12 `relcome digin4 04:54:14 ​digin4: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 04:55:44 Hmm, welcome should be the wisdom version of relcome 04:55:59 it is hth 04:57:42 true tdh 04:57:46 `? tmns 04:57:47 tmns makes no sense. 04:57:54 the monkeys now sing 04:57:54 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:58:16 -!- digin4 has joined. 04:59:41 the bananas now fly 04:59:59 -!- digin4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:00:15 i think digin4 found us too surreal 05:00:26 -!- digin4 has joined. 05:00:43 either that, or e's having connection trouble. 05:01:31 I should learn about surreal numbers. 05:01:35 Wasn't someone in here an expert? 05:02:11 i don't remember. 05:02:55 `? surreal number 05:02:56 surreal number? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:07:57 `le/rn surreal number/Surrey numbers are very county, as long as they're not Spelthorne. 05:08:00 Learned «surreal number» 05:09:01 that wisdom should be sufficiently surreal hth 05:22:23 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:38:09 i am frustrated at higher education mathematdicks 05:38:13 : - ( 05:38:21 maybe i just have a bad teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:41:19 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:42:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:03:11 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 06:09:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:19:14 -!- digin4 has joined. 06:28:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:38:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:42:35 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:52:05 oerjan: Your lightning is a dick to Reindeese 06:54:00 wat 06:55:31 either hppavilion[1] is making a late surreal contribution, or he's finally cracked. 06:56:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:04:34 -!- Caesura has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:04:56 -!- Caesura has joined. 07:26:15 https://sites.google.com/a/bostic.com/keithbostic/vi/nvi-faq#A14 07:26:23 You can buy version 13.3 source with an unrestricted license for $400 from AT&T Software Solutions by calling +1-800-462-8146. Binary redistribution of cscope is an additional $1500, one-time flat fee. 07:26:26 suuuuuuuuuuuuure 07:26:30 what a bargain 07:36:44 compiling seems to be expensive 07:46:18 [wiki] [[Talk:Logicode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49694 * Darkrifts * (+215) Created page with "In the '''IO''' section, it uses the term 
func
, but aren't 
circ
declarations the way to make functions? ~~~~" 08:10:51 -!- carado has joined. 08:29:16 @tell oerjan 300 reindeer were killed by lighting in Norway. 08:29:16 Consider it noted. 08:39:15 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can a (novel-length) book be written without chapter format without looking terrible? ) 08:40:20 -!- bb010g has joined. 09:34:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:42:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:50:07 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:50:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Excess Flood). 09:51:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:10:34 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:22:27 -!- primo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:10:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:10:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:14:11 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:11:11 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:12:09 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:16:46 -!- primo_ has joined. 12:18:14 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 12:19:53 -!- primo_ has left. 12:47:29 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:58:24 -!- Tritonio has changed nick to Tritonio_. 13:02:19 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 13:09:25 -!- Tritonio has changed nick to Tritonio_. 13:09:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:10:44 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio__. 13:11:00 -!- Tritonio__ has changed nick to Tritonio. 13:14:05 -!- augur has joined. 13:18:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:18:36 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:18:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:47:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:08:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:11:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Changing host). 14:11:42 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:13:50 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:14:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:14:47 -!- Tritonio has quit (Excess Flood). 14:14:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:24:35 -!- yorick_ has joined. 14:25:08 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:25:08 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:25:38 -!- Deewiant has joined. 14:26:57 -!- digin4 has joined. 14:39:29 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 14:40:00 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Excess Flood). 14:40:14 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 14:40:44 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Excess Flood). 14:40:58 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 14:42:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:43:59 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 15:17:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:19:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:24:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:27:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:34:48 -!- polybot has joined. 15:57:43 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:02:02 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:02:04 Hey hey 16:04:40 I'm trying to rewrite my lazy bird interpreter 16:04:47 Trying to do it with C# 16:04:52 So far not working so good 16:04:54 write it in lazy bird 16:05:05 I tried thusly : 16:05:06 del printx = x => { Console.Write('a'); return x; }; 16:05:06 del m = x => x(x); 16:05:09 m(printx); 16:05:17 But that only gives me a single a 16:05:29 Not quite sure why, I think it might be the order of evaluation 16:09:15 Yeah I think the evaluation is backward compared to the normal operation 16:09:26 m(printx(i, 'a')(printx(i, 'b'))); prints "ab" rather than "ba" 16:09:38 Wait no 16:09:40 That's correct 16:09:45 But then why 16:10:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:17:12 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:27:27 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:28:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Excess Flood). 16:33:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:33:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:38:13 Slereah: I don't seem to recall C# having a "del" keyword. 16:38:37 del is delegate del del(del a); 16:38:58 Is that kosher to make a pure lambda expression 16:39:14 Yeah, seems fine. 16:39:40 I might name it Del, though. 16:39:45 m(printx('a')); doesn't print two a's, even though printx('a')(printx('a')); does 16:40:06 If it's named "del", then someone might mistake it for a keyword. 16:40:24 Psh who cares for someone :p 16:40:32 It's not like someone else will see that code 16:41:50 So, when you evaluate m(printx('a')), that's going to first evaluate printx('a') (which will output 'a') and then call m() on the result. 16:42:40 Hm 16:42:48 Can I switch the order of evaluation? 16:43:14 But wait, why does printx('a') typecheck? Isn't printx a "del", meaning it can only take a "del" as an argument? 16:43:17 It ain't called Lazy Bird for nothing 16:43:26 Well, you could do something like... 16:43:29 printx isn't quite as pure 16:43:32 m(unusedValue => printx('a')) 16:43:37 It's delegate del delchar(char c); 16:44:09 All right. 16:44:12 Maybe what you're after is... 16:44:34 Something along the lines of... 16:44:58 delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; }; 16:45:32 Would that solve my problem though 16:45:49 If the evaluation is done in the wrong order it will change the behaviour of programs 16:46:12 Hm 16:46:27 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 16:46:43 I could just rewrite a lambda interpreter myself but if I could change to lazy evaluation the existing lambdas it would be swell 16:47:25 There's gonna be a nice way to do this in C#... 16:47:30 -!- sewilton_ has joined. 16:47:49 Technically this would only affect the non-pure operators 16:48:01 But I'm not sure how to fix this especially for those 16:48:15 I feel like just using "del", exactly as you're currently using it, ought to work. 16:48:22 -!- pdxleif- has joined. 16:48:27 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 16:48:42 Then again, maybe not. 16:48:44 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 16:48:47 Hmmmmm. 16:48:54 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:48:56 -!- sewilton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:48:57 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:48:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:48:59 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:49:00 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:49:01 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:49:01 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:49:02 -!- myname has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:04 -!- pdxleif- has changed nick to pdxleif. 16:49:31 Switching to delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; }; still only produces one a 16:49:36 -!- HackEgo has joined. 16:50:33 And what expression are you using now? 16:50:40 What are you evaluating that only produces one a? 16:50:41 m(printx('a')); 16:50:51 With m = x => x(x); 16:51:22 https://gyazo.com/e0bc79e0dab2a2d8303b71cf935e62fe.png 16:51:31 That would produce only one "a" even if lazy evaluation were used. 16:51:38 Would it? 16:51:46 Hm 16:51:51 What to do 16:51:53 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:51:55 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 16:52:19 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest23396. 16:52:21 m(printx('a')) would reduce to printx('a')(printx('a')). The outer printx('a') would get reduced and thus would print "a", leaving you with printx('a'). Then evaluation would finish. 16:52:34 Ah yes 16:52:45 Let's see what happens if I add an i 16:53:03 m(printx('a'))(i); does produce two i's 16:53:38 and u(u((printx('a'))))(i); does produce an infinite loop 16:53:39 All is well 16:53:51 I guess I need to do (my program)(i) by default 16:54:58 Now to do a parser for the code 16:55:15 I bet C# has a standard one by default 16:55:57 -!- sewilton_ has changed nick to sewilton. 16:57:12 -!- ocharles_ has changed nick to ocharles. 16:58:07 Parsing this oughta be pretty easy. Consider using recursion. 16:58:46 yeah shouldn't be too hard 16:58:56 There's only one operation to be applied 16:59:37 public static LbExpression Parse(TextReader reader) { switch (reader.Read()) { case '`': LbExpression function = Parse(reader); LbExpression argument = Parse(reader); return function.Apply(reader); case ... } } 16:59:41 -!- carado has joined. 17:04:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:05:12 -!- polybot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:06:22 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 17:15:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:18:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:25:16 So far so good 17:25:22 Let's try a more complicated expression 17:26:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:26:55 `````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!i prints "hhee" 17:26:58 Not good 17:26:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,.: not found 17:27:58 Ah, I see the problem 17:29:21 Gotta find the correct regular expression for a combinator expression 17:33:05 What's a regular expression if X = a is an expression and X = `XX is an expression 17:34:27 Apparently basic regexps do not handle nesting 17:34:29 hm 17:34:45 Might have to do it by hand 17:36:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:36:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:45:35 http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/desktop/opera-releases-bork-edition 17:46:32 Hello world works 17:46:34 Hurray 17:46:40 Now let's try the Fibonacci 17:47:21 "Process is terminated due to stack overflow" 17:47:27 Ouch 17:47:41 I guess when the program doesn't stop it doesn't print things until the end 17:48:49 wait no 17:48:58 `u`u.a prints characters before the stack overflow 17:48:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: u`u.a: not found 17:52:40 Maybe I should just rewrite it like before as a dynamic string 17:52:48 Might avoid the stack overflows 18:13:10 -!- gamemanj has joined. 18:35:31 -!- TellsTogo has joined. 18:38:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:42:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:46:58 -!- cyra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:03:26 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2624 0x2624 19:03:27 ​☤ 19:05:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:07:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:14 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:13:22 -!- ski has joined. 19:13:30 -!- iaglium has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:15:49 -!- iaglium has joined. 19:35:21 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:56:48 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x262B 0x262C 19:56:49 ​☫☬ 19:57:21 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2670 0x2671 19:57:21 ​♰♱ 19:57:40 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2768 0x2775 19:57:41 ​❨❩❪❫❬❭❮❯ \ ❰❱❲❳❴❵ 19:58:29 Like HTML tags, but more confusing. 19:58:35 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2380 0x238B 19:58:36 ​⎀⎁⎂⎃⎄⎅⎆⎇⎈⎉⎊⎋ 19:59:17 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2729 0x2730 19:59:17 ​✩✪✫✬✭✮✯ \ ✰ 19:59:34 <\oren\> my god its full of stars 19:59:51 -!- polybot has joined. 19:59:58 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x27AB 0x27AC 19:59:59 ​➫➬ 20:00:29 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0xFFE8 0xFFEE 20:00:30 ​￨￩￪￫￬￭￮ 20:01:07 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0xFFFE 0xFFFE 20:01:08 ​￾ 20:07:57 <\oren\> ☫ and ☬​ are hard to draw 20:25:05 -!- polybot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:25:11 space grunts looks like a mobile game for whiever it was who did 't like the turnbased aspect of roguelikes 20:25:33 -!- polybot has joined. 20:37:25 -!- TellsTogo has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:39:48 turnbased means time to think 20:39:58 i like that 20:41:04 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:51:33 -!- APNG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:56:33 -!- polybot has changed nick to Moonythedwarf. 20:57:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:57:13 -!- Soni has joined. 20:57:57 -!- Soni has changed nick to APNG. 21:00:30 -!- MDead has joined. 21:02:44 -!- Melvar` has joined. 21:03:19 -!- Melvar has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:03:22 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 21:03:40 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 21:07:18 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 21:10:13 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (*.net *.split). 21:10:13 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 21:10:13 -!- MDude has quit (*.net *.split). 21:20:15 i know way too few people that do graphical stuff 21:22:15 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:23:26 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:27:55 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:33:45 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 21:39:32 Does 0xFFFE even have a definition? 21:39:54 It is an invalid Unicode character. 21:40:36 Phew 22:09:28 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:11:03 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:13:29 -!- randomact2016 has joined. 22:13:36 -!- randomact2016 has left. 22:17:57 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:20:47 -!- augur has joined. 22:34:32 moo 22:37:54 <\oren\> prooftechnique: it is invalid, but still can occur, so there is a glyph for it in my font 22:38:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:38:12 hi wob_jonas 22:38:20 <\oren\> helwob_jellonas! 22:39:03 My bank card again got physically damaged. This is the third time my bank card has had a shorter lifespan than their normal replacement time. 22:39:27 I know it's getting a lot of wear because I'm carrying it in my wallet all the time, but isn't that supposed to be sort of normal use for a bank card? 22:39:49 <\oren\> maybe your wallet is too small or too big 22:40:17 <\oren\> or you have too many cards in your wallet 22:40:38 Question: anyone know of a IRC bot that can preform the Riemann function? 22:41:00 This time it's not around the chip where it torn, but instead there's a tear starting from the short side of the card you hold in your hand when you insert it, on the side of the magnetic strip. 22:41:51 \oren\: maybe, or more likely too much cash and tickest and other non-card items, or the wallet is getting pulled tense and curved in my pocket 22:42:36 The usual advice is to not put your bank card (or other fragile items like a calculator or mobile phone) in your back pocket, but I never do that! I always have it in my front jeans pocket (or rarely in a bag). 22:43:05 -!- byteflame has joined. 22:44:04 moonythedwarf_: we have some reasonably programmable bots, so presumably you can upload a short program that computes it 22:44:24 any of them have node.js? 22:44:32 you can probably find a ready-made implementation of it in some library 22:44:43 I don't know, I don't do node.js 22:44:45 Already have. 22:44:47 `` node 22:44:48 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: node: command not found 22:44:52 ): 22:45:08 moonythedwarf_: you mean the Riemann zeta function, right? 22:45:13 Yes. 22:45:34 I think, leme check 22:46:11 This Riemann zeta: http://dlmf.nist.gov/25.2 22:47:26 Riemann(f, a, b, n, sampler) 22:47:26 Calculates the Riemann sum for a one-variable function f on the interval [a,b] with n equally-spaced divisons. If sampler is given, that function will be used to calculate which value to sample on each subinterval; otherwise, the left endpoint will be used. 22:47:28 Hmm 22:47:30 Dunno 22:48:18 moonythedwarf_: that's not the Riemann zeta, that's quadrature (approximating a Riemann integral) in one dimension 22:48:21 totally different thing 22:48:34 Ah. 22:48:40 i just searched by name. 22:48:42 :L 22:49:07 * moonythedwarf_ feels stupid now 22:49:19 moonythedwarf_: ok, so what do you actually want? 22:49:29 Dunno. 22:49:38 <\oren\> I don't think I've ever put anything in the back pocket of my jeans. how would I sit? 22:50:35 In the Dungeons&Dragons game I managed to summon a grandfather clock into a prison cell and when it chimed the guards game down and wondered how it got there. 22:50:38 \oren\: I put a key there, and sometimes plastic bags. never bigger stuff. 22:51:06 zzo38: is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic? 22:51:36 ^ 22:52:29 nah, I guess they probably already knew so it doesn't matter 22:52:45 There was a anti-magic field active, but the book that summoned the clock somehow overcomes that anti-magic, and so they were unable to unsummon it. 22:53:32 zzo38: is that plain arcane magic, or something different? 22:53:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:53:54 * zgrep pops in to glimpse at the backlog and sees an out of context «is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic?», zgrep now imagines wob_jonas locked in a castle room, with guards outside guarding him 22:53:56 I don't know how the book works. I just wrote "clock" and there it was. 22:55:07 summon a pair of magic garden clippers that can cut through steel 22:55:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:55:57 no wait, I think you do psionic magic, not arcane, right? 22:56:10 zzo38: oh! just wrote "clock"? is that like Scribblenauts? 22:56:20 wob_jonas: My character can do both, but I don't know how this book works. 22:56:24 Sounds like it wob_jonas 22:56:40 have they tested whether it's an illusion? 22:56:52 maybe it can make a teleporter? and that ^ 22:56:56 Not as far as I know 22:57:09 The reason for the clock was to time the expiration of a spell I had set up elsewhere. The spell created a large block and was meant to make noise by the cups sitting on top of it falling down once the spell expires (causing the block to disappear), to wake us up, but we were put in jail instead. 22:57:56 Therefore I trick the guards in going to the hotel just before it would expire, so they would hear the noise, enter the room and try to dispel the magic cups but they can't because it isn't magic. They might think therefore that we have stronger magic than they have because they can't dispel our magic. 22:58:51 may work, but couldnt they detect it? 22:59:17 wait, is the clock set to the right time for that? or do you have some way to find out what time it is, from a prison cell? 22:59:37 wob_jonas: That's what I used the clock for; to determine what time it was. 22:59:58 I guess you could just ask the guards 23:00:09 wob_jonas: They refused to answer. 23:00:22 zzo38: right, but did the clock arrive set to the right time and wound up? 23:00:57 Yes; it was early enough that I still knew what time it was, and it was wound up, too. 23:02:28 They might detect a dim aura if they tried, but not any stronger aura because there isn't actually any magic in effect in the hotel room (it has already expired), and in any case the cups themselves are not magical. 23:06:11 Are the guards familiar with the tale of the head of Vecna? 23:08:20 I don't know if they are or not 23:10:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:10:41 hi hppavilion[1] 23:12:07 Pedantic level 1: Replace all occurrences of pi with tau/2 (unless it's 2pi, in which case you just use tau) 23:12:32 Pedantic level 2: pi and tau are both acceptable, but replace all occurrences of 2 with tau/pi 23:13:04 hppavilion[1]: you mean Pendantic level tau / pi ? 23:13:10 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 23:13:15 moonythedwarf_: ...I am a failure. 23:13:36 Linguistic Prank Idea: Start interpreting numbers written in standard digital fashion as an abjad 23:13:55 There's nothing pedantic about using 2pi instead of pi 23:14:01 It's just preference. 23:14:16 shachaf: But using 'tau' exclusively I mean 23:14:26 That's a tiny bit pedantic 23:14:37 Not pedantic. 23:14:41 A little bit 23:14:46 Pedantic is the sort of thing I'm being right now. 23:15:00 Like, using tau/2 even when you JUST want pi 23:15:02 ...touche 23:15:04 But there's nothing incorrect about pi. 23:15:05 Some programs I wrote do use tau but not pi 23:15:13 (Or even better, an ultra-abjad, in which vowels aren't just inferred; which specific vowel sound is used is unnecessary) 23:15:41 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 23:16:13 I'm a fan of the middle camp, in which Pi and Tau are both acceptable. I would call it a Golden Mean Fallacy, but we're discussing pi(/tau), not any other irrational numbers 23:16:17 Of course it is correct there is nothing incorrect about pi, but tau seems to be work better in many cases; but it isn't (just) because of circles, anyways. 23:16:38 I consider both acceptable, but find tau more useful in more cases than pi. 23:17:32 zzo38: Yes, exactly 23:17:56 but that's not pedantry, yo 23:18:09 I think we should start using tau (together with pi) without any explanation at the beginning (so no tau = 2pi disambiguation), so people just have to start getting used to it 23:18:15 hppavilion[1]: use pi / pi t orepresent 1. 23:18:17 shachaf: It is if you systematically refuse to use pi 23:18:31 Still not pedantry. Just a preference. 23:18:49 moonythedwarf_: That's level 3, and you have to use it when you would otherwise just drop it to imply a coefficient of 1 23:18:54 If I systematically refuse to eat bell peppers, it's not pedantry to not eat bell peppers. 23:19:20 ("The parent quadratic function is y = pi/pix^2+0x+0") 23:21:18 hppavilion[1]: here is a derivative for that: (d)/(dx)(π/(π x^2)+0 x+0) = -2/x^3\ 23:21:26 s/\\/ / 23:21:47 Numeric Abjad: 0 [z], 1 [w], 2 [t], 3 [θ], 4 [f], 5 [k], 6 [s], 7 [j], 8 [p], 9 [n] 23:22:21 shachaf: Pedantry was the wrong word, but I couldn't think of anything better 23:22:35 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:23:33 hppavilion[1]: no [r]? 23:23:47 wob_jonas: Where would the [r] be? 23:24:27 wob_jonas: Also, [r] would lead to r-colored vowels, which would make things more confusing 23:24:33 hppavilion[1]: dunno, anywhere so you get a saner set of consonants. 23:24:58 (between the sounds you can put any monopthong you like (or none, if you like); a decimal point is represented by a [b]) 23:25:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:25:47 Hm, 1 should be [g] because [w] can be a difficult sound sometimes 23:25:57 wob_jonas: Why is this system insane? 23:26:12 it's not insane, but [r] is common and useful 23:26:43 wob_jonas: Yeah, but [r] leads to r-coloring, which makes things harder to understand. I guess 0 could be [r]? 23:26:56 Yeah, 0 is [r] 23:27:25 its just a _esoteric_ set of constants hppavilion[1] (; 23:28:42 moonythedwarf_: (1) "an _esoteric_" (2) That winky face is backwards; while (: is acceptable (if strange), (; is never allowed, only ;) (3) Many of them were chosen based on their initial sound in English to make it easier for English speakers (one of the larger groups) to understand 23:30:08 But, English are not abjad. 23:30:11 but i always wink my _right_ eye 23:31:09 zzo38: Yeah, but if I try to make the numbers have vowels, I lead to issues with numbers that don't contain any 23:31:32 Ah, OK 23:31:44 e.g. if the even digits are vowels and the odds are consonants, then you have trouble pronouncing 573597335 23:32:14 Yes, I can understand you 23:32:46 That was for anyone else reading (also, I'd already started typing and I don't like aborting messages) 23:33:21 * hppavilion[1] is pro-life, but only for relatively short Unicode strings used in text-only chat 23:35:49 hppavilion[1]: you could take a language with a somewhat strict syllable structure, and have every two consecutive digits be pronounced as a syllable, or even some more complicated system 23:36:49 I did have an idea like that too; treat even positions as vowels and odd positions as consonants; that isn't quite same but it is a similar thing. 23:36:52 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:37:20 I think there's even such a system, though not for generating any word, but as a system to read out numbers in a terse way 23:37:23 let me try to find it 23:38:06 wob_jonas: I could, I suppose, though odd numbers complicate a bit (even though the solution is quite obvious) 23:38:59 Every digit has a consonant sound and a vowel; you make these in sequence, in odd-length strings the remaining symbol is put at the end of the last syllable 23:39:07 If you didn't want the system workable by humans, then you'd just use arithmetical coding or some sort to generate almost exactly every reasonable pronunciation in a reasonable rate. 23:39:07 But then you have to memorize twice as many sounds 23:39:26 Abjad is simpler though 23:39:34 The abjad system yes is simpler and it does work too. 23:41:04 make it an abjad then, with the ten sounds being some permutations of [p m t d n k v z S r] ? 23:42:45 I think hppavilion[1]'s idea to omit [r] does make some sense, due to r-colour-vowels; it would be too difficult including all sound anyways 23:43:00 hellob_jonas 23:43:11 hi shachaf 23:43:46 or you could use syllables such that each two digits encode a syllable consisting of a consonant or consonant cluster from a set of 20 and a vowel from a set of 5. 23:44:43 wob_jonas: zzo38: If I do include [r], it has to be as 0 as that seems to be the only logical place for an r-colored vowel to exist 23:44:55 Better to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system 23:45:04 -!- tromp has joined. 23:45:28 wob_jonas: I suppose I could, to make an abugida 23:45:41 But I think ultra-abjad is the best 23:45:49 (it'd most likely slowly evolve into an abjad) 23:46:55 OK, now to test 23:47:24 what if you use an escape digit so you encode 19 consonant clusters with 1, 2, ..., 9, 00, 01, ..., 09 respectively, such that the clusters you'd rather avoid at initial position get the codes staring by a zero? 23:47:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:47:36 no wait, that's stupi 23:47:41 forget that 23:48:06 still, you could use an escape digit somehwo 23:48:19 (final digits are allowed to drop the subsequent vowel) 23:48:50 Reference: http://pastebin.com/QE4pPHu3 23:48:56 sin 23:49:21 fotar 23:49:27 fot 23:49:39 (read those back to me from the lookup) 23:50:18 (Maybe I should allow multiple similar sounds for each- so [t] and [d] are the same) 23:50:27 OK 23:50:46 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 23:52:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:53:30 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:58:49 OK, updated 23:59:31 Sometimes in a Dungeons&Dragons game, the duration of a spell can be much more important than the spell itself. 23:59:46 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2016-09-06: 00:00:16 Read these back to me in numeric format: sin, fot, footar, 00:00:43 sizus 00:01:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:01:14 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:01:53 helloerjan 00:01:59 I'm making an abjad for reading numbers 00:02:05 hippavilion[1] 00:02:38 @messages-foul 00:02:38 hppavilion[1] said 15h 33m 21s ago: 300 reindeer were killed by lighting in Norway. 00:02:42 hppavilion[1]: shocking 00:02:53 -!- byteflame has joined. 00:03:07 * hppavilion[1] should really buy a swatter 00:04:23 you cannot buy my kind of swatter, unless you find one of those little shops that weren't there the previous day and won't be there the next 00:05:20 Google Maps can probably direct me to one of those 00:05:34 i'm not sure google maps updates fast enough 00:05:36 Do they move each day, or do they only exist on some days? 00:05:45 Hm, sounds like a bug 00:06:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:06:01 they only exist in _this_ dimension on rare occasions. 00:06:56 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:06:57 see the relevant discworld book for explanation, i think it may have been the Light Fantastic. 00:07:32 (it's where the Luggage came from.) 00:07:52 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:08:03 he quiquiquit 00:08:20 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:08:28 hm looks like an epidemic 00:09:10 they weren't on the same server 00:11:01 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Quit: See ya later, [INSERT_NAME_HERE]). 00:11:29 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 00:12:11 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can a (novel-length) book be written without chapter format without looking terrible? ) <-- hm aren't the discworld books written that way too... as a conscious decision. 00:12:40 oerjan: Are they? 00:12:45 I've never read them 00:12:45 At least one of them is. 00:12:50 ^ 00:13:04 I remember because when I was youngish, it was bedtime, and I told my mother I would just read to the end of the chapter. 00:13:17 shachaf: *applauds* 00:13:18 And then it turned out there were no chapters. 00:13:23 Oh 00:13:38 "Very few of the Discworld novels have chapter divisions and instead feature interweaving storylines. Pratchett is quoted as saying that he "just never got into the habit of chapters",[5] later adding that "I have to shove them in the putative YA books because my editor screams until I do"." 00:13:41 Last time I went to the local Bibliorium I was looking for Discworld (specifically, The Colour of Magic), but they didn't have it 00:13:50 -!- izabera has joined. 00:13:50 (They had later ones, but not the first one) 00:14:02 izabonjoura 00:14:10 looks like an unconscious decision that stuck, rather. 00:14:11 chapter? i 'adn't even met 'er! 00:15:16 Moonythedwarf: what are you ^ing 00:15:46 ^ doesn't work very well in ongoing chats. 00:15:52 My JUNIOR FEMALE SIBLING and I are reforming the calendar 00:16:13 12 30-day months (plus a 5- or 6-day festival week), 5 6-day weeks to a month 00:16:27 (Weeks have always bugged me because they don't fit nicely within a month) 00:16:52 hppavilion[1]: it is actually somewhat recommended that you _don't_ start with the first one, since it's considered relatively bad. (i didn't follow that recommendation, possibly because i didn't hear of it in time.) 00:16:59 Oh, really? 00:17:07 Huh 00:17:10 i think Mort is considered the first really good one. 00:17:26 Which should I/you/one/us start with 00:17:31 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:17:36 Ah 00:17:44 (Is Mort an abbreviation?) 00:17:49 MoRT? 00:18:09 no, it's the name of the main character, but it's also obviously a pun on the book's plot idea. 00:18:14 Oh 00:18:36 Sorting algorithms typically use <. Can they avoid any comparisons in any cases if they use <=> instead? 00:18:39 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I want to hear the Canadian national anthem, but altered to sound more disappointed ) 00:18:48 ("Oh... Canada...") 00:19:10 You should need to know some way to determine what order they are supposed to be sorted in 00:19:46 shachaf: pretty obviously exactly when there are equal elements... 00:19:52 shachaf: on chapters and Prattchet, see http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/words-from-the-master.html search for "chapter" 00:19:55 oerjan: Why? 00:20:17 A list shuffle is just a sort where the comparison function is λ(x, y): return coinflip(); 00:20:28 (I think?) 00:20:35 oerjan: For example, insertion sort will use the optimal number of comparisons with < if all elements are equal. 00:20:42 shachaf: well if there are no equal elements, you cannot get better with <=>. if there are, then you need to test equality so cannot make do with only one < between the relevant pair 00:21:11 ah, I see, oerjan already said that 00:21:25 oerjan: Are you sure? 00:21:47 shachaf: hm maybe not. 00:22:22 sort [x,y] = if y < x then [y,x] else [x,y] 00:22:30 shachaf: you have to be careful then to always use < in the direction that gives the stability you want, if any. 00:22:42 but i guess if you do that, then it works. 00:22:47 oerjan: I'm interested in the question both when stability is required and when it isn't. 00:23:12 oerjan: yes, but if you do a plain mergesort (not a two-way one) or a heapsort then I think it's relatively easy to do that without additional bookkeeping 00:23:13 because there's no harm in treating = as <= if they're in the right order. 00:23:47 There's no harm, but will any sorting algorithm do unnecessary comparisons if they think that <=? 00:23:58 Changed plurality mid-sentence there. 00:24:09 I blame the word "do". 00:24:11 wob_jonas: sure, if you split in such a way that the lists to merge weren't interleaved originally. 00:24:47 actually i should have said < instead of <=, i guess. 00:24:54 -!- augur has joined. 00:25:28 <=> gives you more information, so it kind of seems that you ought to be able to use it. 00:25:31 But maybenot. 00:27:22 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:28:19 12 30-day months (plus a 5- or 6-day festival week), 5 6-day weeks to a month <-- i think i've seen at least the first part somewhere... 00:28:24 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:28:59 * oerjan is bothered by week numbers, specifically by people using them when he has no idea when they are. 00:29:04 Maybe you're thinking of 13 28-day months? 00:29:55 shachaf: I think you could have seen both 00:30:14 That one is pretty good. 00:31:34 shachaf: the French Republican Calendar has 12 months with 30 days each plus 5 or 6 extra days outside of months per year, but it's not the first one to get that idea 00:33:12 hppavilion[1]> A list shuffle is just a sort where the comparison function is λ(x, y): return coinflip(); <-- that doesn't actually work right, statistically. 00:33:53 oerjan: Depends on your sorting algorithm. 00:34:01 Certainly a lot of them assume transitivity. 00:34:29 If you use bogosort, it'll work correctly (but in 2^n time). 00:34:36 shachaf: oh, actually, non-transitive comparisons are interesting: 00:35:34 in particular, I wish some programming language libraries provided an interface for a balanced tree (and sort) ordered on a custom sorting routine that need not be transitive, 00:35:39 shachaf: Not sure if it's 2^n, as- in my understanding of bogosort- you just shuffle the list and check if it's sorted 00:35:47 If yes, yay, if not, try again 00:35:51 Yes. 00:36:09 Which means getting n coin flips to return true. 00:36:17 Or do you mean that it's 2^(n-1)? 00:36:31 shachaf: well it cannot work correctly with any method that uses a bounded number of coin flips. 00:36:58 What if it's sorting a list of length 2? 00:37:04 with the guarantee that two elements will be ordered consistently if they're in separate strong components of the comparison function, but not necessarily if they're in different strong components. 00:37:14 * oerjan ignores shachaf's last comment. 00:37:36 also, they should probably allow that comparison functions might depend on state, with similar guarantees. 00:37:51 scourgean 00:38:16 so the lower bound search function in the tree can find any place within the strong component of what you're searching for. 00:39:31 so far I haven't seen any library that documents that it guarantees almost anything for an inconsistent or non-transitive comparison function, even though I think some _implementations_ might actually already guarantee this, and it wouldn't be hard to do so in most implementations 00:39:42 you can do it without overhead usually. 00:39:58 shachaf: I think that you can't even use the direct coinflip function; you need to either let the coinflip directly determine if you're done (O(2^-n), I think) 00:40:18 Or first chain it into something to check (which, yes, would be O(2^n). I think.) 00:40:29 I don't know what you're saying. 00:40:37 Nor why oerjan is ignoring my last comment. 00:40:40 Not every implementation supports inconsistent comparison functions, that's true, but still, the best ones do. 00:40:48 shachaf: because it's too trivial an objection. 00:41:05 If we could use time traveling computing, would algorithms be allowed to have negative O-time? 00:41:39 -!- polybot has joined. 00:41:43 And are there any conventional algorithms completing in O(k) time for which k shrinks? 00:41:43 Is it true just for 2 elements or for any power of 2? 00:41:50 Or O(sin(x)) algorithms? 00:42:09 shachaf: only 2 i think. 3 is always a factor of n! for n > 2. 00:42:25 What kind of algorithms will be O(sin(x))? 00:42:25 You can certainly end up with things like O(1/n) when talking about e.g. amortized algorithms. 00:42:40 I don't know 00:43:09 . o O ( this ignoring is going well, isn't it ) 00:43:17 zzo38: That's the question 00:43:28 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:29 Yes, and I don't know. 00:43:49 ignoring ring ring ring ring ring ring / banana phone 00:43:52 I have a feeling if you did have an O(sin(x)) algorithm, it'd just get simplified to O(1) 00:44:09 sin(x) = A(1) 00:45:52 hppavilion[1]: i think it's impossible for k to shrink for arbitrarily large data, because to be bounded it cannot actually _check_ beyond a certain portion of the data, which prevents it from shrinking below the minimum for that amount. 00:46:06 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:46:12 Ah, yes 00:46:58 But with time travel-based computation, could a problem have a complexity of e.g. O(-n^2)? 00:47:22 `? ring 00:47:23 Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. 00:47:56 i'm not sure the banana phone can fit in there. 00:49:00 "This algorithm completes in O(chr(n)) time" 00:49:18 chr? 00:49:29 > chr 65 00:49:32 'A' 00:49:48 oerjan: It's a characteristic function, obviously. 00:49:57 OKAY 00:51:33 No, I mean the chr that lambdabot used 00:52:11 If you write O(f) in computer science, f : N -> N is positive and increasing. 00:54:20 -!- polybot has joined. 00:54:21 Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help for help on a command. 00:54:21 (Is O(3^n) allowed, or do all O(k^n)s just reduce to O(2^n)?) 00:54:27 polybot: No. 00:54:35 ... 00:54:39 Also, whose bot is this? 00:54:41 Who invited the bot? 00:54:42 moonythedwarf_: You? 00:54:46 No. 00:54:46 No 00:56:03 someone kick it :/ 00:56:18 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting and stuff). 00:56:43 I want to know which bot it is 00:56:47 ~>help 00:56:47 commmands: 00:56:51 None 00:56:55 So it's a new one 00:56:56 looks broken. 00:57:04 moonythedwarf_: I think it's somebody's new bot 00:57:09 Probably 00:57:24 The identification says it is Node.js based and is apparently on Google's server. 00:57:39 Huh 00:57:50 Wierd 00:57:57 zzo38: A public googlian server or, like, the thing Google itself runs on? 00:58:08 Most likely public. 00:58:35 I don't know? 00:58:52 ~>who 00:59:10 Googleusercontent 00:59:16 So public 00:59:25 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:59:29 And gone 00:59:35 But whose was it? 00:59:41 Dunno 00:59:42 APNG: Yours? 00:59:55 huh? 01:00:02 APNG: Was polybot yours? 01:00:04 -!- polybot has joined. 01:00:04 Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help for help on a command. 01:00:14 annnd its back 01:00:35 ~>help 01:00:35 commmands: ping, info, waitforMsgtest, talk, cat, art, solvefor, solve, done 01:00:41 Something changed. 01:00:41 hppavilion[1], nah if I had a bot it'd support CTCP 01:00:48 /shrug 01:00:50 fungot: Did you add polybot? 01:00:51 hppavilion[1]: if coding in c... o(n) o(n2), but it 01:00:52 Google Compute Engine has addresses like that. 01:00:56 Now there are some more command at least 01:01:05 ~>help solve 01:01:12 ? 01:01:14 ~>solve 01:01:14 Invalid solver undefined, valid solvers are math.js, algebra.js and mathics 01:01:29 Huh. 01:01:31 ~>info 01:01:31 Polybot v1.0.0 01:01:35 useless 01:01:46 See if there is information on npm possibly? 01:01:53 ~>solve math.js 01:01:54 undefined 01:02:04 ~>solve math.js asdf what do you do? 01:02:04 { [SyntaxError: Unexpected end of expression (char 21)] char: 21 } 01:02:06 There is no package on npm called "polybot" anyways it seem 01:02:23 ~>solve math.js 1+1 01:02:23 2 01:02:26 Are any of these us: https://github.com/orgs/tjcsl/people 01:02:26 ~>hcf 01:02:30 its a calculator. 01:02:32 wow 01:02:38 *facepalm* 01:02:44 refuses to catch on fire, apparently 01:03:12 leme look up math.js 01:03:16 moonythedwarf_: But probably an ultra-mega-badass one that does, like, solving the Riemann hypothesis 01:03:22 hppavilion[1], I know fwilson 01:03:34 http://mathjs.org 01:03:38 but I doubt they have anything to do with it 01:03:38 APNG: Personally or heard of? 01:03:39 ~>solve reimann_hypothesis 01:03:39 Invalid solver reimann_hypothesis, valid solvers are math.js, algebra.js and mathics 01:03:46 hppavilion[1], personally 01:03:52 APNG: IRL or online? 01:03:55 online 01:03:58 ~>solve math.js 01:03:58 undefined 01:04:03 we talk a lot tho 01:04:03 its a rather good calculator apparently. 01:04:07 APNG: Does fwilson know about #esoteric? 01:04:12 ~>solve math.js f() = 1+1; f() 01:04:12 [2] 01:04:13 ~>solve math.js 2+5 01:04:13 7 01:04:33 ~>prexcl 3f println test 01:04:34 ~>solve algebra.js x = 5+3 01:04:34 [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object] 01:04:38 hppavilion[1]> (Is O(3^n) allowed, or do all O(k^n)s just reduce to O(2^n)?) <-- they're not equivalent. 01:04:45 oerjan: OK 01:04:52 ~>solve algebra.js x=5+3 01:04:52 [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object] 01:04:59 ~>solve algebra.js x x=5+3 01:04:59 [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object] 01:05:05 ~>solve algebra.js x==5+3 01:05:05 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'toString' of undefined] 01:05:11 Hm... 01:05:14 i've heard of algebra.js, its a literal, actually rather bad, calculator. 01:05:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:05:48 ~>solve math.js sqrt(i) 01:05:48 Ah 01:05:48 0.7071067811865476 + 0.7071067811865476i 01:05:50 hppavilion[1], well fwilson isn't even online atm 01:06:01 hey it can do complex/imaginary numbers 01:06:07 ~>solve math.js '5'+'3' 01:06:07 { [SyntaxError: Value expected (char 1)] char: 1 } 01:06:17 ~>solve math.js 3/0 01:06:17 Infinity 01:06:20 WRONG 01:06:24 ~>solve math.js 0/0 01:06:25 NaN 01:06:28 it does floats, nice 01:06:38 Imaginary numbers make it even better. 01:06:45 APNG: I think doing floats is the bare minimum for a decent calculator 01:06:50 The complexes are more impressive 01:06:55 what happens if you mix floats and complexes? 01:07:05 the sqrt(i) happens 01:07:05 like i/0 01:07:09 APNG: It returned a mix of floats and complexes to sqrt(i) 01:07:11 ~>solve math.js i/0 01:07:12 Infinityi 01:07:17 Sure, why not 01:07:19 ~>solve math.js 0^0 01:07:19 1 01:07:20 imaginary infinity. wrong. 01:07:34 See if it does quaternions 01:07:42 ^ +1 01:07:46 Imaginary infinity? Wrong? 01:07:50 ~>solve math.js 2+3i+5j+7k 01:07:50 [Error: Undefined symbol j] 01:07:54 Fail 01:07:56 a bot invaded the channel. 01:08:06 it happens to be a rather good calculator. 01:08:12 ~>solve math.js sqrt(i) 01:08:12 0.7071067811865476 + 0.7071067811865476i 01:08:16 moonythedwarf_: A half-decent calculator at best 01:08:23 ^ +1 01:08:39 A GOOD calculator would be able to do quaternions, surreals, split-complex, duals, and Kleene Algebra 01:08:42 ~>solve math.js Riemann(sin,5,6,7) 01:08:42 -0.7238935268566056 01:08:44 I think I need to leave for now. 01:08:53 kk bye 01:09:02 ~>solve math.js (1,1,1) + (3,3,3) 01:09:02 { [SyntaxError: Parenthesis ) expected (char 3)] char: 3 } 01:09:14 ~>solve math.js (1;1;1) + (3;3;3) 01:09:14 { [SyntaxError: Parenthesis ) expected (char 3)] char: 3 } 01:09:17 ah fuck you 01:09:21 can't do vectors 01:09:22 ~>sovle [1,1,1] + [3,3,3] 01:09:31 ~>solve math.js [1,1,1] + [3,3,3] 01:09:31 [4, 4, 4] 01:09:36 huh 01:09:54 are those vectors tho? 01:09:54 try checking the math.js Documentation APNG 01:10:03 moonythedwarf_, eh too lazy 01:10:05 It apparently knows what a matrix is, at least 01:10:15 ~>solve math.js gamma(5) 01:10:15 24 01:10:28 Does the matrix multiplication working? 01:10:30 ~>solve math.js gamma(5i) 01:10:30 -2.717038835061503e-4 + 3.399328988721386e-4i 01:10:48 ~>solve math.js [6,7] * [7,6] 01:10:48 84 01:11:02 ? 01:11:11 ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6,5] 01:11:11 106 01:11:17 ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6,5i] 01:11:17 71 + 35i 01:11:24 ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6i^7,5i] 01:11:24 35 - i 01:11:40 ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [2,3] 01:11:40 [28, 38] 01:11:48 ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [2,3;4,5] 01:11:48 [[34, 45], [46, 61]] 01:11:48 its actually a decent calculator. 01:12:05 ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [1,0;0,1] 01:12:05 [[5, 6], [7, 8]] 01:12:10 O, it does work. 01:12:15 fizzie: fungot got killed 01:12:15 it doesn't do vectors >.> 01:12:34 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:12:37 APNG: at least it knows what a mathmatical function is 01:12:49 ~>solve math.js f(x) = x^3 01:12:49 f(x) 01:12:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:13:04 ~>solve math.js f(4) # lets see if its presistant 01:13:04 64 01:13:09 its presistant 01:13:40 thats nice to know. 01:14:18 thanks to presistance we _might_ be able to make a turing machine/state machine in it 01:15:01 http://mathjs.org/docs/reference/functions.html 01:15:21 thats a list of all things it supports, i think its extended tho, Riemann is not a default function in math.js 01:15:26 it's not fwilson's 01:16:37 ~>solve math.js inv([[5, 6], [7, 8]]) 01:16:38 [[-4, 3], [3.5, -2.5]] 01:17:23 ~>solve math.js 12 inches to feet 01:17:23 0.9999999999999998 feet 01:17:31 *persistence 01:17:38 ~>solve math.js sqrt(i)/0 01:17:38 Infinity + Infinityi 01:17:41 `danddreclist 82 01:17:42 danddreclist 82: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 01:18:24 its actually pretty good for a IRC bot with a calculator 01:18:26 ~>help 01:18:26 commmands: ping, info, waitforMsgtest, talk, cat, art, solvefor, solve, done 01:18:33 ~>done 01:18:37 Nothing. 01:18:55 ~>waitforMsgtest 01:18:58 Nothing. 01:18:58 You said: Nothing. 01:19:00 ~>cat 01:19:00 http://lorempixel.com/600/100/cats/ 01:19:03 Oh nvm. 01:19:04 ~>art 01:19:04 http://lorempixel.com/100/600/abstract/ 01:19:11 why 01:19:14 ^ 01:19:42 ~>talk 01:19:42 lol @ 12 foot 01:19:43 Good morning. 01:19:48 ~>talk 231234 01:19:49 In che anno e iniziata la prima guerra mondiale. 01:19:56 wat 01:20:04 thats just a damn cleverbot command. 01:20:07 I also don't know what it is. 01:20:09 useless++; 01:20:10 polybot: 1914 hth 01:20:34 the only thing thats actually useful here is the calculator (~>solve math.js) 01:20:36 ~>talk 986430 01:20:37 Rispondi. 01:20:41 ~>solve mathics 1+1 01:20:44 izabera: is it yours? 01:20:45 In[1]:= 1+1Out[1]= 2 01:20:55 ~>solve mathics Integrate[1+1] 01:20:57 In[1]:= Integrate[1+1]Out[1]= Integrate[2] 01:21:09 This seems a little on the botspammy side. 01:21:15 ^ +1 01:21:25 i guess it calculates 12 inches * x cm/inches / y cm/foot 01:21:44 SMaybe 01:22:29 @karma useless 01:22:29 useless has a karma of 0 01:22:54 Hello, this is polybot's owner. 01:23:12 I like fucking bot owners 01:23:13 ... 01:23:16 may I fuck you? 01:23:22 Uhhh.. wtf. 01:23:26 :D 01:23:47 wtf APNG 01:24:05 moonythedwarf_, lol, just playing with the bot 01:24:19 im not a bot, im the owner of it speaking through it 01:24:32 polybot, right... 01:24:35 you look like a bot 01:24:48 Goodbye. 01:24:59 ??? 01:25:23 APNG: you may have been a _tad_ impolite there hth 01:25:31 you can't just say "goodbye" and keep the stupid bot in the channel >.> 01:26:10 ~>solve math.js 1+1 01:26:10 2 01:26:32 oerjan, my job is to just remove the bot from the channel somehow 01:27:40 ~>solve math.js "Te\r\nQUIT\r\nst" 01:27:40 "TeQUITst" 01:27:41 APNG: i don't see the bot as disruptive enough to remove, yet. it's mostly just responding to people's commands. 01:28:05 ~>solve math.js "Does this work? \7" 01:28:05 yeah, mostly 01:28:05 "Does this work? " 01:28:10 Hello, this is polybot's owner. 01:28:15 except for those 01:28:29 APNG: well that counts as human. 01:28:37 ^ 01:28:53 then why's it going through the bot? 01:29:00 owner's banned or something? 01:29:25 APNG: well that's _possible_ of course, but it also just be the mystery. 01:29:42 oerjan: myndzi is being disruptive by not adding bodies tdnh 01:30:04 oerjan, seems easier to just remove it 01:30:17 shachaf: this room is already packed, full of esoteric madness and sanity 01:30:56 `? mad 01:30:56 APNG: it really doesnt. 01:30:57 This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. 01:31:05 curses 01:31:09 lol 01:31:20 moonythedwarf_, /kick is easier than figuring out who's behind it 01:31:32 Do you like to make up the "esoteric programming" block of Magic: the Gathering cards? 01:31:39 APNG: You're being far more disruptive than the bot. 01:31:49 ^ 01:31:53 shachaf, how? 01:32:01 For example, you're being rude to the bot. 01:32:04 lol 01:32:06 Or its owner. 01:32:12 moonythedwarf_ is second-most disruptive. 01:32:19 I'm probably third. 01:32:20 it's a bot .-. 01:32:34 You were being a jerk anyway. 01:32:41 * moonythedwarf_ hugs his silver metal for being second most disruptive 01:33:13 A good luck piece? 01:34:00 * moonythedwarf_ awaits the earning of the almighty string loop metal 01:34:07 oerjan: Yeah, our internet is entirely down. Apparently there's an ongoing 6-hour maintenance window right now nobody saw fit to mention to us. 01:34:09 derp *medal 01:34:20 Ouch. 01:34:31 fizzie: Whose? 01:35:24 fizzie, can you give your opinion in the bot that popped up randomly recently, polybot? 01:36:37 shachaf: Either BT or my ISP (zen.co.uk), I can't quite tell from their status page. 01:37:04 There's been a bunch previously as well, but this is the first one that actually took things down. 01:37:17 Presumably they're actually doing something this time. 01:37:28 wat. i'm actually logging #esoteric. 01:37:43 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:50 i thought i had specifically told irssi to log only privmsg 01:37:55 oh it left. 01:38:04 *sigh* 01:38:26 -!- polybot has joined. 01:38:27 Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help for help on a command. 01:38:53 polybot: i think the join message is unnecessary hth 01:39:17 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:39:46 -!- polybot has joined. 01:40:02 Well then, that proves the owner is listening. 01:41:31 polybot, stop making fwilson look bad, change the bot's name 01:42:09 how does it make fwilson look bad? 01:42:27 polybot, fwilson made a bot called polybot 3 or so years ago 01:42:32 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 01:42:50 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*nodebot@*.147.197.104.bc.googleusercontent.com. 01:42:51 -!- oerjan has kicked polybot. 01:43:07 saw it comeing. 01:43:13 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 01:43:28 oerjan, who? 01:43:47 oerjan: How can you tell? 01:43:50 ^ 01:43:53 APNG: our channel's most insistently returning troll 01:44:07 i doubt its hagb4rd 01:44:17 There's no proof 01:44:26 oerjan, hmm... 01:44:29 it's not that insistent imho 01:44:37 they don't seem to have signed their work... 01:44:44 *MWAHAHAHA* 01:44:49 oerjan, how can you be so sure? 01:44:52 ^ 01:45:06 an interesting question. i don't wish that to be generally known hth 01:45:16 Free until proven guilty 01:45:28 nope. 01:45:36 Pure guesswork, i bet oerjan 01:45:36 in my experience, the ppl usually considered trolls tend to sign their work 01:46:10 uh, "work" 01:46:45 oerjan, proof is needed. otherwise it can be considered a unfair ban. 01:46:49 APNG: hagb4rd has never done that. 01:46:54 No proof is needed. 01:47:24 maybe hagb4rd is oerjan's alter ego 01:47:27 somewhere else we have somebody in therapy who is joining at least twice a weak holding huge monologues insulting any possible human 01:47:32 *MWAHAWAT* 01:48:38 In the next episode, oerjan turns out to be the polybot author and it was all some sort of crafty scheme. 01:48:41 oerjan: myndzi is being disruptive by not adding bodies tdnh <-- tru. 01:48:50 ^celebrate 01:48:52 uh ok 01:48:55 Oh, right. 01:49:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:49:03 also plurals are cool 01:49:07 There 01:49:08 I'm back 01:49:13 APNG: Oh, how are plurals cool? 01:49:21 shachaf: it takes two bots to party 01:50:16 hppavilion[1], well they're forced to deal with so much crap that I find them cool 01:50:33 Oh 01:50:42 I'd prefer pluralal consistency 01:50:46 Oxes 01:50:48 Cactuses 01:51:05 algae 01:51:15 not that kind of plural 01:51:32 spaghetti 01:51:50 Buffalos 01:52:16 myname: I see "algae" more as a mass noun more than a plural 01:52:29 You should need the proper proof otherwise is no good. Alternatively, can it be similar to zero-knowledge-proof? I think not. 01:52:30 it is a plural 01:52:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:53:19 plurals are cooler than plurals 01:53:33 Like, algae:rain::alga:raindrop 01:53:56 APNG: What kind of plural? 01:54:11 uh there's probably a better link I could use, but this'll do http://pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/ 01:54:19 myname: And spaghetti is a dish, not a collection of individual objects 01:54:36 that kind of plural is better than the grammar kind of plural 01:54:52 Huh, "duck" is its own plural (but "ducks" is also acceptable) 01:54:54 i used to fool my english class with people - peoples, pupil - ? 01:55:12 'peoples' is a thing 01:55:16 hppavilion[1]: spaghetti are more than one spaghetto hth 01:55:35 APNG: look it up. it's not what you'd expect 01:55:36 myname: I have never heard that. Is that actually valid Italian? 01:55:46 hppavilion[1]: it is 01:56:02 cappuccino is singular of cappuccini 01:56:09 same with gnocchi 01:56:19 myname, it's impossible to look up 01:56:26 myname: "peoples" is a thing and everyone knows it. When "people" is used as a singular, it refers to a society (or ethnicity, etc.), and "peoples" refers to several of these 01:56:41 ^ 01:56:44 So "Native American peoples" refers to the various groups of American Indian 01:56:59 And buffalo is weird- "buffalo", "bison", and (to a lesser extent) "buffalos"/"buffaloes" are all correct 01:57:42 but yes, this kind of plural is cool: pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/ 01:57:49 (If you said "buffaloes" to someone who wasn't particularly invested in bison- e.g. anyone not from the midwest- they'd probably take a few seconds to catch the use of a weird pluralization) 01:58:15 (well, maybe not. But everyone knows what you mean and it sounds like it could be right.) 01:58:48 also, the same italian one: graffito 01:59:00 nvm .-. 01:59:08 -!- APNG has left ("o/"). 01:59:23 deers, fishes/fishies, salmons, sheeps, squids (huh, apparently "squid" is a valid plural. I guess it's just that if there's more than one squid, you're too busy screaming to talk about it) 01:59:35 pigs, trouts 02:00:12 How do you refer to a single piece of the blues genre? 02:00:19 "It's a very nice blue"? 02:00:38 blues piece? 02:00:42 * moonythedwarf_ lurks 02:00:44 böues track 02:00:46 song 02:00:48 whatever 02:00:50 ox -> oxes, child -> ...OK, "children" is the only acceptable plural of child. 02:01:13 Huh, "brethren" is just an archaic pluralization of "brother" 02:01:33 (How do you triple-plural person? person -> people -> peoples -> ???) 02:01:42 You must never say "brethren" and "brothers" in the same breath. 02:01:52 But it's OK in multiple breathren. 02:01:52 Huh, "bee" is plural "been" in Ireland 02:02:31 Many goose is "goose", many moose is "meese" 02:02:54 english is a mess 02:03:12 many goose is goöse 02:03:49 but oh welö, in german, the plural of "status" is "status", but with a longer u 02:03:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:04:07 "bitchen be crazy" 02:04:24 Huh, hyponyms are interesting 02:04:48 it is directly transfered from latin, i think 02:05:06 (I've heard people say that the word "bitch" (in the non-dog sense) shouldn't be used at work because it's sexist) 02:06:37 (OK, (a) it shouldn't be used at work because it's considered obscene, and you don't use obscene words at work in general unless you work for an institution that permits or encourages it (like a Porn site). (b) Really, it's no more sexist than "waitress" in my mind, because I've always thought of "bitch" as the feminine of "bastard". Now, using it to refer to a man, on the other hand...) 02:07:22 Also, I just learned about hyponyms and hypernyms, and now I'm happy 02:09:27 apparently polybot has a semioffical channel. 02:10:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:12:46 Oooooh "pence" is "pennies" 02:14:03 Not in the US. 02:14:09 shachaf: Well yeah 02:14:14 In the US "pennies" is $/100 and "pence" is £/100 02:14:53 Actually maybe in the US "pennies" is only the coins, not the currency. 02:15:00 shachaf: But I've heard "pence", a hector times, and I'm just now learning that it just means "cents" in a way referring to the coin 02:16:19 (I assume when you're referring to pennies themselves you still say pence? Like, "can you make change for this" "No, I only have 8 pence" (when he has more money than that, but the price-offer relation requires nine pennies to make exact change)) 02:16:25 shachaf: "pennies" would generally refer to the coin in US English. 02:16:31 pikhq: I know. 02:17:07 The bizarre thing is that apparently some stocks are traded in pounds and some are traded in pence? 02:17:08 I don't think you would ever say "I only have 8 pennies" unless you literally only had 8 1¢ coins. 02:17:14 imo how odd 02:17:56 Huh, that is a little weird. 02:18:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_sterling 02:19:23 Not quite as weird as the now-historical practice in the US of trading stocks in 1/8th dollars. 02:19:37 (in 1997) 02:19:43 (erm, until 1997) 02:19:49 Like, say, you're buying something that costs ¤9.91 and carrying a ¤10. The cashier has 1 ¤5-bill, 5 ¤1-coins, 1 ¤0.10-coin, and 8 pennies. AFAICT, he needs 9 pennies to make exact change. Could he refer to the pennies themselves as "8 pence", even though he has far more than that amount of money aggregate?) 02:19:55 s/\)// 02:20:03 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:20:13 pikhq: I thought it was until 2000 or so. 02:20:26 pikhq: But now they're experimenting with making the tick size for some stocks $0.05. 02:20:46 Ah, I was quoting when the NYSE made the switch. 02:20:59 But the SEC required all other markets to make the switch in 2001. 02:21:23 Well, when one exchange makes the switch to a finer tick size, of course all the rest want to make it too. 02:21:38 But I thought it was later than 1997. But I'm not sure. 02:22:03 pikhq: What do you think the tick size should be? 02:22:13 The NYSE is by no means the only exchange; it's entirely plausible it took other exchanges longer. 02:22:28 I dunno, the mil? 02:22:45 You don't want it too small. 02:23:11 The SEC already thinks $0.01 might be too small. 02:23:28 Which is why they're experimenting with $/20. 02:23:30 There's a reason I didn't say FLT_EPSILON. :P 02:23:37 So, hrm. 02:25:18 Personally, I think that value of a stock should be indicated by k ∈ ℂ 02:26:13 Ok, why 1/8? I mean, I'm sure the 8 is for technical reasons (2^3=8, ofc), but shouldn't they at least have used 16 (2^4, much nicer for bytes) 02:26:37 Really, I would've gone with 256 (2^8, 1 full byte, easy for computers) 02:26:53 In European markets tick size often varies with price. 02:27:05 It wasn't for technical reasons, it's for hilarious legacy reasons. 02:27:07 Which makes sense 02:27:22 The US used to use the Spanish dollar, or pieces-of-eight, as currency. 02:27:23 pikhq: Ah, did their old computers use 6-bit bytes? 02:27:27 It had 8 natural subdivisions. 02:27:37 Oh 02:27:41 That works 02:27:57 (I think there should be a metric unit of value of some sort) 02:27:59 But the minimum tick size *was* $/16 02:28:13 (At least in the #esoteric system) 02:28:22 Ah? 02:28:30 $/16 was switched *to* as part of migrating to $/10. 02:28:38 $/8 was the historical practice. 02:28:47 $/16 was the practice at time of decimalization. 02:28:54 Why this made sense is beyond me. 02:29:07 What's wrong with $/16? 02:29:22 (What unit would the #esoteric system of measurement start with? As in, like, if we do time we can say that the base distance is how far light moves in that time) 02:29:25 Nothing, it's just weird to do $/8->$/16->$/10 rather than $/8->$/10. 02:29:58 (It'd probably start with shachafs, tbh) 02:31:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:51 OK, base unit of distance is 0.865 meters (names later) 02:34:10 That's not interesting. 02:34:21 shachaf: What isn't? 02:34:31 It's just a different number. Boring. All you do is multiply. 02:34:45 If you want something interesting, produce a whole new perspective on length and measurement. 02:34:47 shachaf: Yeah, I know, but that could be said of pretty much any unit 02:34:57 Like general relativity, maybe? 02:35:02 Yes, and how would one do that? I think length is fairly objective 02:35:06 Well, yes, relativity 02:35:17 Or special, I guess. Whatever. 02:35:32 That's one sort of perspective that could be esoteric. If it wasn't so mainstream. 02:35:42 Invent something like that. 02:35:46 "This is the perceived height of Einstein to a stationary observer while moving at 15% of the speed of light" 02:36:04 Boring. 02:36:07 Yeah, interesting measurement is hard, OK? 02:36:17 Sure. 02:36:18 shachaf: Well what do you think would be interesting? 02:36:32 I don't know. 02:36:47 Linear inches would maybe be an esoteric measurement if airlines didn't use them. 02:36:51 I don't think it's even possible to esotericize measurement without losing any semblance of consistency 02:37:14 See, that's exactly why you need to step back. 02:37:20 shachaf: OK 02:37:24 * hppavilion[1] steps back 02:37:29 Do you want me to drop consistency? 02:37:53 One of the ideas is measuring time and space using the same units. 02:37:58 Maybe you can measure other things using the same units. 02:37:59 shachaf: I was going to go for things like m^(1/2) at some point 02:38:09 Ooooh, I have always wanted that 02:38:18 OK, that could be intersting, if you figure out something that works. 02:38:30 Certainly more interesting than 86.5% of a metre. 02:38:42 shachaf: 86.5% of a meter is 1/2 the height of Hitler 02:38:56 (I was going to go for Turing, but I couldn't find his height) 02:38:56 OK, but that's not interesting. 02:39:06 It isn't, but I needed somethign 02:39:07 It's already taken. 02:39:10 You can use the smoot if you want. 02:39:22 No, I'm not using that anymore 02:39:55 The problem is there's no physical interpretation of root meters 02:40:20 Did I talk about volume time in here? 02:40:35 I think I did, and oerjan said something about how when all you have is nail polish, everything looks like a nail. 02:41:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:42 (I think there's an equation with m^(1/2) in it, but I forgot what it is) 02:43:52 In materials engineering, there's MPa(m)^1/2 02:44:15 I take it that's megapascals*m^(1/2) 02:44:15 -!- augur has joined. 02:47:41 You could measure expansion in m^2/s, I suppose. If you wanted to measure the growth of a side (assuming it's a perfect square; if it isn't, you math it so it is), you'd have to use m/sqrt(s) 02:48:42 If it had to be in per-second notation, you'd use m*sqrt(s)/s. If you measure it in what happens in 1 second, you get a result in m*sqrt(s) 02:48:44 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:49:46 Now for a physical interpretation... 02:50:48 physical interpretations are for the physicists 02:51:38 shachaf: They're nice though 02:52:40 You aren't being impure if you switch mindsets and only apply your mathematics at the very end (take a real-world problem, drop all the real-world stuff, do proper math, quickly turn it back into something real at the very end) 02:53:06 If you explain what's going on to the reader in real-world terms while mathing it, THEN your math is impure 03:16:46 I really don't like MKS; MGS would be objectively better 03:17:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 03:22:47 If it's going to be entirely impossible to make Americans use SI, can we at least get them to use a YPS (yard-pound-second) metric variant? 03:23:59 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:24:07 At that point, why not go the whole 8.2296 meters? 03:24:26 shachaf: And just switch to metric? Because Americans. 03:24:35 Americans won't go for it 03:24:40 Though PPP would be the best 03:24:52 pooch-pooch-pooch 03:27:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:30:31 -!- Guest23396 has quit (Changing host). 03:30:31 -!- Guest23396 has joined. 03:30:39 -!- Guest23396 has changed nick to JX7P. 03:34:15 shachaf: ...planck 03:34:20 FFF as well 03:37:42 (I want to see FFF, but with the additional base units for electric current, temperature, luminous intensity, and amount of substance) 03:38:39 (Plus prefixes) 03:38:58 (All unit names must start with F, and probably also the prefixes) 03:39:07 Prefixes based on powers of 7? 03:41:58 Temperature has to be Fahrenheit of course 03:47:31 `? wegians 03:47:32 A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). 04:05:45 -!- dos has joined. 04:10:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:14:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:14:43 -!- augur has joined. 04:16:37 -!- dos has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:17:48 -!- primo has joined. 04:25:31 -!- Akaibu has joined. 04:28:48 -!- dos has joined. 04:38:38 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 04:42:12 -!- dos has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:44:02 `quote prose 04:44:03 1134) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 04:44:54 -!- primo has left ("Leaving"). 04:54:12 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:56:21 How capable is iCE40 FPGA compared to Xilinx, if IceStorm is used? 04:56:41 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 05:15:42 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 05:30:38 -!- centrinia has joined. 05:31:02 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 05:32:16 -!- centrinia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:33:19 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:46:30 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 05:49:12 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:50:48 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:59:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 06:00:42 Mathematical notation prank idea: if you have two variables h and p and you take their product, just call their product 'f' without explicitly stating so and act confused when people don't understand 06:00:48 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:02:10 -!- byteflame has joined. 06:06:15 Also, single- and double-story a and g are different variables 06:06:52 Umlaut is an operator, but can only be applied to a (either kind), e, i, o, and u 06:07:30 w is equal to 2*u OR u^2, depending on the paper (be consistent in each paper, but feel free to change in different papers) 06:17:38 I suppose it is a new kind? 06:18:19 zzo38: ? 06:19:32 * hppavilion[2] . o o () 06:19:40 ...I swear, that's never happened to me before 06:20:06 * hppavilion[2] . o O ( English needs some new bizarre letter variants that our ancestors will look at and say "huh, that's weird, didn't realize they used THAT historically" ) 06:21:44 * Sgeo . o O ( I've only really seen . o O notation in JParanoia ) 06:24:46 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:36:02 -!- primo_ has joined. 06:36:19 -!- primo_ has left. 06:39:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:42:11 . o O ( Do you have clearance to reveal that information ) 06:45:01 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:51:59 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 06:56:14 Did Einstein ever appear on television? 06:56:58 last week on themoreyouknow 06:58:11 c̈ 06:58:37 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:58:53 Possible, but I don't know. 07:00:11 Apparently he died on route to a TV appearance commemorating the 7th anniversary of the state of Israel, though. 07:00:29 Oh, sorry. Not on route. Died intending to go to one. 07:01:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:01:44 -!- carado has joined. 07:03:17 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:04:08 He was a Jew from Germany, so I can understand why he'd a) care to do such a thing b) be invited for such a thing. 07:04:56 and, you know, the science thing 07:05:23 your comment looks slightly racist 07:06:18 implying that he'd be invited to tv shows for being a jew rather than for what he did 07:06:38 [wiki] [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49695&oldid=45967 * Martin Ender * (-86) /* Prelude */ update with shortened quine and correct line 07:06:48 No, more for the specific element of being for the 7th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel. 07:07:46 i.e. that if he weren't Jewish it's rather unlikely they would think of having him for that particular event. 07:08:08 hm nothing caught in the wiki spam filter today 07:08:20 oerjan: add some 07:08:22 or yesterday 07:10:39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEtQ-gQ0Bq8 07:11:10 izabera: done hth 07:11:19 thanks 07:11:33 (It's hard to remember that Einstein had a mega-german accent) 07:12:08 got caught in two of the filters 07:15:00 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:15:09 very mega 07:18:56 (I wonder what accent of german I'm learning- like, obviously, I'm going to have an american accent, but I'll also have an accent based on what my German teacher (who apparently doesn't have an accent according to other germans, despite being from Tennysee) 07:18:59 (sp) 07:19:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 07:20:03 just pronounce german like einstein pronounced english, and you'll be fine. 07:20:18 ...huh 07:20:31 * oerjan whistles innocently 07:23:57 shockingly, irssi doesn't seem to have a simple command for sending ctcp replies. 07:24:56 *shocked* 07:25:17 oerjan: /nctcp? 07:25:24 shachaf: just found it hth 07:25:30 Can you use NOTICE command? 07:25:36 oerjan: come on 07:25:39 that wasn't a tdh? 07:25:47 twhh? 07:25:52 shachaf: no, because i'd already found it 07:26:02 twhhioihfif 07:26:04 sent the reply a second before 07:26:07 sorry, twhhioihnfif 07:26:15 taautdnh 07:26:26 the point is, do you want to encourage the behavior 07:26:30 not just this isolated incident 07:26:46 twhhbywtl OKAY? 07:27:26 -!- augur has joined. 07:27:44 i can't decipher the previous acronym 07:28:03 i mean not the latest one but the one before 07:28:20 that's very meta-appropriate, in fact 07:28:44 tchh 07:28:47 tshh 07:28:55 twhhbamtw 07:28:56 btjdnh? 07:29:13 * oerjan blows a brain fuse 07:30:44 mine was: that would have helped if only i had not found it first 07:30:52 tanstaaha 07:31:38 `learn tanstaaha so please stop using them twh 07:31:41 Learned 'tanstaaha': tanstaaha so please stop using them twh 07:32:45 `sedlast s# twh#. That would help.#;s# #, # 07:32:48 wisdom/tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so please stop using them. That would help. 07:32:51 anyway, it was "those acronyms are unreadable, that does not help" 07:33:16 tanstahth 07:33:25 shachaf: how hypercritical 07:33:35 What? 07:33:42 Have you ever been helped by a hairy toe? 07:33:51 you removed the hypocrisy tdnh 07:34:07 why would the dogs care about hypocrisy 07:34:25 wait, hyperccriticial/hypocritical 07:34:30 i'm missing a pun of some sort 07:34:57 clearly by removing hypocrisy, you are creating hypercrisy, duh 07:35:31 . o O ( what's duh an acronym of again ) 07:36:06 Hm. 07:36:13 oerjan: Oh, now I see. 07:36:20 You were talking about the sed 07:36:50 `? aha 07:36:51 aha? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:38:11 `learn aha would be a helpful acronym, but has a shedding problem. 07:38:13 Learned 'aha': aha would be a helpful acronym, but has a shedding problem. 07:38:18 `learn AHA is a helpful acronym for American Heart Association. 07:38:21 Relearned 'aha': AHA is a helpful acronym for American Heart Association. 07:38:21 oops 07:38:51 Shedding? 07:38:58 it's very hairy 07:39:23 You should revert my edit. 07:40:13 `revert 07:40:15 OKAY 07:40:22 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 07:47:50 `? oerjan 07:47:51 Your mysterious reanimate œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 07:48:02 `slwd oerjan//s#reanimate#helpful# 07:48:04 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious helpful œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 07:48:41 Is it still true that when you try to remember a word, "amortized" pops up? 07:48:47 oh man 07:48:58 i just found out the identity of Betty Crocker 07:49:03 or the identity of [redacted] 07:50:19 shocking 07:50:34 shachaf: it might be, i haven't tried to remember a word in a while 08:26:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:31:45 -!- Kaynato has joined. 08:34:01 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:47:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:57:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:13:15 Phew, finally some internets. 09:13:48 -!- fungot has joined. 09:34:52 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 10:30:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:28:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:55:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:03:45 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:14:26 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host). 12:14:26 -!- izabera has joined. 12:28:12 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:31:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:31:54 -!- augur has joined. 12:36:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:16:24 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 13:17:37 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 13:54:06 -!- stateless has joined. 14:02:24 -!- byteflame has joined. 14:04:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:28:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:33:09 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:48:37 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:30:05 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 15:43:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:44:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:45:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 15:50:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:53:05 fizzie: an internet? where? 16:00:20 -!- keemyb has joined. 16:00:45 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:04:07 It came out of the wall at home. 16:28:19 [wiki] [[Dbfi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49696&oldid=30552 * Nthern * (+0) typo correction: CGBSI should be CGBFI 16:45:19 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:58:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:09:06 fizzie: A ghost? 17:10:29 An internet. 17:13:50 if I saw internets coming out of the walls, I'd jump out a window to avoid being crushed. 17:32:20 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 18:02:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:06:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:27:18 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 18:34:57 <\oren\> President of the Phillipines Duterte threatens to eat terrorists. 18:35:11 <\oren\> #nottheonion 18:35:29 <\oren\> "with salt and vinegar" 18:36:24 i like terrorists the most with fresh grilling marks 18:36:36 and a nice bbq sauce 18:45:34 -!- bibibi has joined. 18:52:02 anybody ever made some kind of a todo list for df-likes? i know there is that kind of stuff für roguelikes 19:00:15 I have not seen for either 19:06:47 roguelike howtwos usually advice you to hardcode levels at first and stuff 19:07:09 which makes lot of sense in that point 19:07:21 but is completely irrelevant for df likes 19:08:57 One forum I go on has now added a field in the user profile for RDF link (which says it can be used not only for RDF but also for RSS or Atom), although currently there is no way of automatically reading that file on the forum server since that would be more difficult to program and furthermore would cause problems when they upgrade the forum software. 19:09:32 myname: Well, I don't know df likes working, but I suppose what you said can be work for roguelike 19:09:51 What other advice did they give? 19:11:35 i'd have to look it up, i read that quite a while ago 19:12:02 but imho roguelikes and df likes are way too different to use similar approaches in design 19:14:51 I believe you 19:27:07 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:31:54 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:34:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:34:55 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:52:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:04:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:06:15 Is there a way to implement combinators using C# delegates without getting stack overflows 20:06:30 Doing it via string modification is straighforward enough 20:07:48 For instance, if I pick the Turing combinator U, then ``UUI = `I``UUI = ``UUI 20:07:56 Infinite loop but the string size doesn't change 20:08:22 But if I do it via delegates, the recursive function calls makes the stack quickly overflow 20:08:27 Is there a way around this 20:12:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:16:00 I don't know how is C# working 20:21:55 change the size of the C# stack? 20:25:41 that is not really a v. good solution 20:25:49 It will overflow in 3 seconds instead of 1 20:26:43 -!- byteflame has joined. 20:33:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:34:14 -!- byteflam1 has joined. 20:34:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( There should be a programmer religion with numerology in hex ) 20:35:06 -!- byteflam1 has quit (Client Quit). 20:35:10 -!- byteflame has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:35:25 -!- byteflame has joined. 20:42:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: your random number generator came up with 0x600DD065! you will have good luck with animals today 20:43:20 \oren\: Yes 20:43:25 But I'll also need digit sum and such 20:46:58 \oren\: How should the rng be seeded? 20:48:28 <\oren\> with your birthdate and the current angle between the sun and the planet Ceres 20:48:34 I was thinking something like that 20:48:53 \oren\: Seed with birthday, result is modulo Ceres? 20:49:38 (seed with birthdate via day^3+month^2+year using the reformed calendar) 20:52:02 <\oren\> My position on planets is that anything going around the sun that is round is a planet by the way 20:52:30 <\oren\> Ceres is spherical, therefore is a planet, not an asteroid 20:53:03 What about that tennis ball I lost in space that one time 20:54:16 <\oren\> Taneb: that's a very small artificial planet 20:54:42 how did that happen? 20:54:54 Shenanigans. 20:55:00 classic 20:55:28 <\oren\> the whole clearing their neighbourhood thing is just a stupid excuse to preven their being hundreds of planets beyond Neptune 20:56:36 ... and between Mars and Earth. 20:56:58 <\oren\> pikhq: there are very few spherical asteroids actually 20:57:25 I remember the first time I played KSP I got a single kerbal on solar escape orbit, largely by accident 20:57:47 Still... 20:58:21 Oh, huh, there's only one known object in the asteroid belt that's spherical. 20:58:33 Dwarf planet Ceres. 20:59:21 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:59:43 <\oren\> pikhq: yeah. basically my position comes down to saying that the things the IAU is calling "dwarf planets" should still fall into the category of "planets" 20:59:54 Category of planets? 20:59:58 What are the arrows? 21:01:25 \oren\: I don't really see why though -- clearing the neighborhood seems not-insignificant. 21:01:47 "What's the degree of (x-a)(x-b)...(x-z)?" 21:01:53 7 21:02:25 I'm with Bertrand Russell on WWII 21:02:33 shachaf: does that include x-x ? 21:02:52 <\oren\> pikhq: it's defined arbitrarily though. There are a ton of asteroids that pass close to all the planets 21:13:33 <\oren\> I think it's just an excuse so they don't have to keep revising the number of planets 21:15:51 `? wegian 21:15:56 A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). 21:17:13 He said that, despite nonviolence being the best strategy /usually/, Hitler was kind of bad and we need to fight him anyway 21:35:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:35:43 I say Pluto is a planet just so that we can keep things consistent as to how they were, and then say "the 2000s were weird". 21:36:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:36:30 there is an episode of rick&morty about that 21:37:17 `? tarator 21:37:18 tarator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:37:23 `? gaspacho 21:37:25 You like Gaspacho and I like Gazpacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 21:37:33 `? gaszpacho 21:37:34 gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days 21:38:27 `learn Tarator is a Bulgarian soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days. 21:38:29 Learned 'tarator': Tarator is a Bulgarian soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days. 21:39:18 why doesnjt it spell "szoup"? 21:41:48 Why would it? 21:42:22 why is it szerved? 21:43:05 Oh, that. 21:43:16 `dowg gaszpacho 21:43:18 2015-08-13 revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 2015-08-12 echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2013-07-31 revert \ 2013-07-31 for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 2013-02-13 revert 87c64ef250a0 \ 2013-02-13 revert 3 21:43:22 `` rgrep -l szoup wisdom 21:43:29 wisdom/gazspaczo \ wisdom/disflagrate \ wisdom/szoup 21:43:40 `? gazspaczo 21:43:41 gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 21:43:46 `? szoup 21:43:47 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 21:43:50 `? disflagrate 21:43:51 disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. 21:50:07 `? lecsó 21:50:08 lecsó? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:53:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:53:10 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:54:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:55:57 `wisdom lecsó Delicious hungarian stew, made with peppers and tomatoes 21:55:58 cat: : No such file or directory \ // 21:56:10 I don't remember how to make new ones 21:58:03 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:00:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:01:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:04:36 Are there any languages that are LL(1) but are not LR(1)? 22:09:50 any bulgarians in here? 22:15:55 shachaf, is Bulgarian LL(1) but not LR(1)? 22:33:11 -!- augur has joined. 22:34:05 <\oren\> argh, I'm loding my credentials as nativ english speaker 22:34:33 <\oren\> i can't stop making grammatical and spelling problems 22:35:21 <\oren\> I wrote "with suport of" instead of "with support for" 22:37:21 <\oren\> and above you can see more malapropisms 22:41:10 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Zippers 22:41:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:55:24 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:02:03 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:04:38 -!- Zarutian has joined. 23:06:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:08:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:09:34 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:18:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:23:55 -!- Zarutian has joined. 23:29:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:40:29 -!- Guest15977 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:49:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:50:23 -!- byteflame has joined. 23:54:59 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:55:10 -!- Guest15977 has joined. 2016-09-07: 00:02:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:21:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:35:35 @tell Slereah Is there a way to implement combinators using C# delegates without getting stack overflows <-- i suspect this is when you need a trampoline. 00:35:36 Consider it noted. 00:46:25 OK, the wikipedia Philosophy trick is freaking me out right now 00:46:27 Why does it work? 00:46:38 And is it possible to have a chain where it does not? 00:47:04 mainly because articles about concrete things tend to start with a link to something slightly more abstract 00:47:32 and philosophy is about the most abstract there is. 00:48:08 oerjan: But is there, like, an inalienable reason? Like, MediaWiki code? 00:48:14 Or is it just random? 00:48:14 so unless you have a _short_ loop (which probably exist), you'll probably keep going up. 00:48:45 there's no intrinsic necessity there - after all, the trick _excludes_ the most mechanical links. 00:49:54 i think people in the channel searched for an exception once, and i think we found one. 00:50:06 unless it was a variant game. 00:50:28 FUUUUUUUUUUU 00:50:36 God, it works every time 00:50:57 well sure, it _usually_ does. 00:52:09 I love how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics needs a citation that it is, indeed, science 00:52:18 heh 00:52:37 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Does Uncyclopedia have something like this? Or even just The Wiki? ) 00:52:56 i dunno about our wiki 00:53:10 we have the bf derivative game, of course. 00:53:15 Also, wikipedia vandalism idea: Make all the loops have a distance of 1 (so in EVERY article, the first link is DIRECTLY to philosophy) 00:53:21 Haven't heard of it 00:54:22 i'm not sure i remember the rules, but you are basically clicking random until you either get a language you made, or a bf derivative. +1 for the former, -1 for the latter. or thereabouts. 00:55:13 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:55:28 "In classical [[philosophy]], Adolf Hitler is the archetypical [[Assholery (philosphy)|asshole]]..." 00:55:44 is there a misspelling there 00:55:47 Oooh 00:55:49 Where? 00:55:55 philosphy 00:56:03 No? 00:56:09 the second one. 00:56:12 philosphy is just a branch of philosophy 00:56:13 hth 00:56:18 O KAY 00:56:41 ("Adolf" is hard to spell, because I feel like it should be "Adolph") 00:56:58 -!- byteflame has joined. 00:57:24 that's because you don't have the german spirit (Deutsche Volksgeist) 00:57:53 Dammit, even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler applies 00:58:18 applies to what? 00:58:31 Philosophication 00:58:52 I kind of want to mathematicize ethics, but I fear that Godellery poses a problem 00:59:38 mathematicizing ethics killed godel 00:59:58 (by making not eating seem ethical, i guess) 01:00:20 ...nope 01:00:40 i fail to see how your objection applies hth 01:01:24 oerjan: Question: When mathematicizing ethics, should one take the axiom of choice? 01:02:03 Are there any languages that are LL(1) but are not LR(1)? <-- iirc no. 01:02:36 hppavilion[1]: one should either take it or leave it, no third option hth 01:29:06 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Shouldn't eligibility to hold office start at 18? ) 01:29:58 pretty sure that varies by country hth 01:34:53 oerjan: Yeah, but, like, everywhere 01:35:06 (Well, if the age of majority is different, then change 18 to that) 01:36:52 well, why should it be tied to age rather than skill, anyway 01:37:10 18 is no guarantee of anything... 01:42:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 01:56:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:10:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:14:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:14:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:16:03 shachaf: just ordered it :) 02:16:13 hipumpkin 02:16:27 do you have any book corecommendations 02:16:36 that one isn't even the best book 02:16:39 it's just pretty good 02:18:41 hmm 02:26:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:41:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:47:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:49:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:15 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49697&oldid=49693 * Qwerp-Derp * (+412) Added + operator in wiki 03:05:03 shachaf: not really, don't read books much these days 03:05:23 the last thing I remember reading was that thriller they made into a movie about the dude with the disappeared wife 03:10:07 I think I watched the movie but didn't read the book. 03:12:05 ah, I haven't seen the movie 03:12:08 the book was riveting though 03:12:15 I finished it the night I started it 03:17:16 dvorak is such a reassuring robot. 03:20:14 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:41:41 In Freefall? 03:41:56 * Sgeo doesn't actually know which robot is which. 03:42:07 (Well, I know Clippy and ... Sam's robot) 03:42:17 Helix iirc 03:42:28 Ok so there are a number of robots I know 03:46:20 dvorak was like the second robot to show up in the series, i think... 03:47:33 hm nope 03:47:45 that seems to have been sawtooth. 03:52:11 fourth, then. qwerty was third. 03:53:16 copumpkin: I once read a mystery book printed on red and blue pages. 03:53:18 It was rivening. 03:57:35 i also once read such a book. 03:57:44 it was neverending. 04:01:02 -!- myndzi has quit (Quit: .). 04:04:48 hm apparently only some editions had the colored text 04:16:00 oh man, colored text 04:16:05 I can't remember whether my version had that. 04:20:52 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:41:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:17:55 -!- carado has joined. 06:39:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:42:01 Standard Deviation: Square root of the average of the squares of the average value minus each single value; sqrt(sum([((sum(vals)/len(vals))-k)^2 for k in vals])/len(vals)) 06:42:07 Even-more-standard deviation: The same thing, but higher; cbrt(sum([((sqrt(sum([k^2 for k in vals])/len(vals)))-k)^3 for k in vals])/len(vals)) 06:42:31 (wait, I did something wrong) 06:42:37 Oh, no I didn't 06:45:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:06:08 root-median-square 07:12:50 Huh, geometric median is a thing 07:13:06 And it works for arbitrarily many dimensions 07:13:34 It's calculated by finding the point p such that the sum of the distances to all other points is the smallest 07:22:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:23:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:23:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:47:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:58:22 -!- augur has joined. 09:41:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:24:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:32:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:36:43 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 10:52:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:58:50 stackoverflow is offline 10:59:09 i suddenly can't program 11:15:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:25:39 -!- xfix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:32:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:32:59 -!- augur has joined. 11:37:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:37:52 -!- xfix has joined. 11:47:05 -!- cnr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:57:40 -!- cnr has joined. 12:14:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:29:41 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:35:44 -!- Guest15977 has quit. 12:55:24 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:58:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:22:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:07:57 -!- carado has joined. 15:09:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:20:34 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 15:20:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 15:20:34 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 15:20:34 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split). 15:20:47 -!- astslash has joined. 15:32:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:34:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 15:40:43 -!- Deewiant has joined. 15:42:11 -!- tromp has joined. 15:42:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:42:11 -!- deltab has joined. 15:56:12 -!- stateless has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:03:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:28:17 <\oren\> wait, there are people who say heigth and not height? 16:30:38 -!- astslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:30:33 rfist osecnd ithrd rfouth ffith xsith nseveth heigth nnith nteth 17:42:53 <\oren\> Argh, why won't chrome allow https: to be redirected! 17:59:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:02:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:06:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:08:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:21:28 \oren\: To what? 18:23:11 Hm... what's the name of the reverse of the root mean square... 18:23:17 (square-mean-root?) 18:23:48 (Square of the arithmetic means of the square roots) 18:26:29 It's just "power mean with an exponent of 1/2". 18:28:44 Well yeah 18:28:50 But that doesn't sound interesting enough 18:28:58 square-mean-root (SMR) sounds cooler 18:29:14 There's a bunch of hits for it. 18:29:20 And you can take the asymptotic square mean root to get ASMR 18:29:45 Though many of them are just hypotheticals. 19:03:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:30:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:32:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:39:58 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:04:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:30:53 -!- augur has joined. 20:43:18 On Saturday when internet was not working I somehow received an email messages that was dated from Thursday, it said my computer received it on Thursday too, but I didn't receive it. Do you know what is wrong with it, is there some sort of misconfiguration on my end? 20:43:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:44:18 -!- augur has joined. 20:49:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:59:07 -!- augur has joined. 21:09:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:28:26 -!- carado has joined. 21:59:26 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:13:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:14:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:18:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:19:24 If "ng" is /ŋ/ 22:19:29 What's "mg"? 22:19:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:22:22 /㎎/. 22:22:31 `unidecode ɳ 22:22:34 ​[U+0273 LATIN SMALL LETTER N WITH RETROFLEX HOOK] 22:22:56 `unidecode Ɲ 22:22:57 ​[U+019D LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH LEFT HOOK] 22:23:28 * hppavilion[1] prays there's a LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH RETROFLEX HOOK 22:24:03 There's only one LATIN CAPITAL LETTER with a RETROFLEX HOOK, and it's T. 22:24:07 Damn, looks like there isn't 22:24:10 :( 22:24:22 I was hoping to add ɳ to the alphabet 22:25:03 Ʈoo bad. 22:25:12 ... 22:25:13 -_- 22:25:21 Someone needs to bug the unicode consortium about this 22:25:54 You could add it anyways even if it isn't part of Unicode, if you want to do so 22:26:06 Ah, yes 22:26:16 And eventually they'll have to add it >:) 22:26:28 (Until then, computer representations will be based on X-SAMPA) 22:27:02 (X-SAMPA ɳ is n`, so capital ɳ will be written N` until further notice) 22:27:51 You don't have to, you could just make your own code for it 22:28:13 `unidecode ⥥ 22:28:14 ​[U+2965 DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB LEFT BESIDE DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB RIGHT] 22:35:14 Hm... If we call '.' a "point", ',' a "pause", '!' an "exclamation stop", and '?' an "interrogation stop" (and, of course, '‽' an "exclamatory interrogation stop" or "interrobang" informally), then we can also have exclamation pauses, interrogative pauses, and exclamatory interrogation pauses ("interrobang pauses") 22:35:23 (and, of course, the inverted variants) 22:36:37 I have read someone has made up such thing before, I think 22:38:50 inverterrobang 22:39:18 `olist 1051 22:39:19 olist 1051: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 22:42:22 Now my RDF parser program in JavaScript has a few bug fixed and now supports hexadecimal integer literals (this is a nonstandard feature, and furthermore it does automatically convert to decimal in the returned RDF data). 22:48:28 shachaf: I'm pretty sure Unicode already has inverted interrobang, because if anybody were to start using interrobangs it'd be spanish-speakers (as they already decided proper punctuation is important enough to make sure you know they did it at the beginning), so of course there's an inverted one because they need it 22:48:55 But I like the exclamation pause and interrogation pause 22:49:00 Good for quotes, I guess? 23:02:07 -!- augur has joined. 23:08:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:25:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:30:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:31:52 -!- augur has joined. 23:32:57 Yeah, Unicode has the gnaborretni. 23:33:28 U+2E18 INVERTED INTERROBANG 23:33:51 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 23:39:36 It also has the HEAVY INTERROBANG ORNAMENT. 23:40:39 I wonder if Metal Gear fans use the VERY HEAVY SOLIDUS character as a joke. 23:40:41 (Same block.) 23:47:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 2016-09-08: 00:00:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:01:56 -!- augur has joined. 00:06:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:07:05 -!- rodgort` has joined. 00:07:07 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Perhaps #esoteric should start using Chess Annotation Symbols (??, ?, ?!, !?, !, !!) constantly, possibly when livereading active conversations ) 00:07:36 . o O ( that idea is ?? ) 00:07:51 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:08:43 ITYM ⁇ ⁈ ⁉ and ‼ HTH HAND 00:09:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:09:54 ¿What, compose-?-? just yields a ¿? 00:10:39 -!- augur has joined. 00:12:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_1975 confuses me... 00:12:39 Fischer wanted "first to win 10 games" 00:13:07 And in the event of 9-9 he wanted the current champion (which would be him) to keep the title 00:13:36 In the event of 9-9 in a "first to win 10" format, wouldn't the correct response be "play one more game, the winner is the overall winner"? 00:14:20 Oh, wait, I guess the rationale is that if the score is 9-9, the players are about evenly matched and the 10th game is pretty much decided by a coin toss... 00:14:54 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( How about "first to win 3 more games than the other has won?" (or some s/3/n/ for integer n)? ) 00:15:59 that could in theory last forever 00:22:13 I vaguely recall that the expected value of the absolute distance after N steps of 1-d random walk is something non-constant, which I guess would mean it'd be increasingly unlikely to continue? (Of course you could presumably use that as an argument against any sort of constant difference N as well, since it'd mean exactly evenly matched participants would reach that disparity eventually.) 00:26:42 at least sqrt(n) disparity hth 00:27:12 (that may or may not be the right order) 00:33:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:33:20 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:33:59 zzo38: no, I think all LL(1) languages are LR(1). I could be wrong though. 00:34:24 I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard. Why does it seem like all good mechanical keyboards are horribly expensive? 00:36:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 00:39:32 i'm pretty sure all LL(1) _languages_ are LR(1). not quite sure about _grammars_. 00:40:08 I want a clicky keyboard for home with 50 g force and 101/104 key US layout. 00:40:13 (for the first, an LL(1) recognizer is pretty obviously implementable as a deterministic pushdown automaton) 00:42:16 Seriously, they're horribly expensive. 00:42:21 well, an LR(1) grammar is one which needs only 1 token lookahead at the end of a production, while iirc an LL(1) grammar is one that needs only one token lookahead at the _beginning_ iirc. assuming that, it's pretty trivial for grammars too. 00:42:22 Why do they have to cost this much? 00:42:42 (to be sure that the production is chosen) 00:42:49 How did people even have keyboards for their computers back twenty or thirty years ago when mechanical keyboards were the norm? 00:43:12 It's the market in action hth 00:44:33 You can do other kinds of keyboards cheaper and satisfy the majority of people and so on and so forth. 00:45:07 Yeah, but still, fuck them. 00:47:13 I like the IBM Model F keyboard 00:47:59 Game: Total Shuffle Chess (AKA Chess60277490498889369439384431508790906881064404967751680) 00:48:21 oerjan: I prefer deterministic putdown automata 00:49:17 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] ------### 00:49:18 (well, it might actually be more like Chess15069372624722342359846107877197726720266101241937920 as castling becomes irrelevant and/or impossible) 00:49:40 (processing...) 00:49:55 Ding! 00:49:56 oerjan: Your addiction to swatting indicates deeper issues, and that you're a broken human being worth less than fertilizer 00:52:11 i don't find your putdown as deterministic as my swatter hth 00:56:53 Huh 00:57:17 oerjan: I don't think CS has a concept of /how/ deterministic something is; only whether or not it is 00:57:39 Apparently Bobby Fischer was an anti-semitic asshole (also a holocaust denier) 00:57:43 shocking 00:58:53 the CS thing, that is. the other i'm ignoring. 01:01:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:01:34 I think he was... he said he agreed with Nietzsche that "religion is just to dull the senses of the people"... and yet he published "My 60 Memorable Games" because he thought the rapture was coming soon and figured he'd make some cash first 01:02:23 one day soon, deep learning will allow us to say /ignore hppavilion[1] when he brings up ancient crap 01:02:33 Sure 01:02:52 This is what happens when I read wikipedia 01:02:59 About real-world stuff 01:03:06 "We only ship to Worldwide." -- perfect Engrish grammar 01:03:09 your addiction to bringing up crap indicates deeper 01:03:09 issues, and that you're a broken human being worth less 01:03:09 than fertilizer 01:03:14 dammit irssi 01:04:35 i have paste_detect_time = 100msecs and that's somehow not enough. 01:04:41 wob_jonas: You can only get their stuff in Worldwide, Massachippissippi hth. 01:05:07 * oerjan increases to 200 01:05:52 ...wait, what? 01:05:55 Oh, I see 01:05:58 xD 01:06:18 I needed a joke and that was the best I could come up with. 01:08:46 i was going to bring up Usa, Japan but wikipedia crushed my childhood again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita#Product_labeling 01:09:37 mm, snopes 01:11:05 (wait, does this count as ancient crap, argh) 01:11:40 Done. I've ordered a mechanical keyboard. 01:11:55 YOU CANNOT DOWNLOAD A KEYBOARD, SILLY 01:12:24 I'm not downloading it. It will get here the slow way, on legs. 01:12:40 Takes some time because it has to go around the globe, and not even in a straight line. 01:13:06 (Can't withstand the pressures deep inside Earth.) 01:13:25 do the legs at least not have to swim 01:13:49 oerjan: I think it can take a ship or something 01:14:00 but that's cheating! 01:14:28 Not if it's only a small part of the route, I think. 01:15:16 But maybe it doesn't even need a ship, and can come through all land the long way. 01:15:26 I don't really know. 01:15:53 oerjan: Ha! 01:16:23 wob_jonas: Was it made in USA? 01:17:04 wob_jonas: I don't think so. It's shipping from Hong Kong, and probably made there. 01:17:12 I'm not really sure where these things are made really. 01:20:29 TIL "Philippines" is spelled with a 'ph' and "Filipino" is spelled with an 'f' 01:20:32 WTF 01:22:32 and they speak Tagalog 01:22:37 and Cebuano 01:25:27 hppavilion[1]: well in norwegian, they're both spelled with F hth 01:25:46 oerjan: PLEASE LET ME JOIN YOU 01:26:51 hppavilion[1]: you'll probably need a work permit for that hth 01:27:09 Yeah, probably 01:27:10 or possibly, you could find a norwegian to marry. 01:27:59 i suspect you're unlikely to be granted political asylym, anyway. 01:31:31 Most likely scenario is a Trump presidency, which in the event of I'm genuinely considering leaving the country 01:31:41 Even though it makes me a walking cliche 01:35:53 even with a trump presidency, political asylum may not be automatic hth 01:37:01 hpp: leave to where? 01:37:16 oerjan: Well yeah, it wouldn't 01:37:30 And Norway wasn't high on the list of destinations 01:37:33 wob_jonas: Not sure yet 01:37:39 WAT 01:37:47 oerjan: It's not top 5 01:37:48 HOW DARE YOU NOT BUT NORWAY FIRST 01:38:12 *PUT 01:38:34 oerjan: It's a great country, but it isn't primarily english-speaking 01:38:37 (AFAIK) 01:38:43 oerjan: Norway is nice, I visited in August 01:38:59 hpp: what? Norway is as good as English speaking. most people there speak English, you can get by with English. 01:39:14 and besides, if you already know English, then Norwegian isn't that hard to learn 01:39:14 wob_jonas: Oh? 01:39:15 my roommate and I are experimentingn with canadian banking regulations 01:39:29 I wrote him my rent cheque on the inside flap of a macaroni carton in sharpie 01:39:56 alercah: Are the Canadian bank rules that you don't have to write cheques on the official paper? 01:40:00 oerjan: did you really remain the only Norwegian regular in the channel? 01:40:09 (And does this extend to checks as well?) 01:40:39 wob_jonas: there was another recently, but e hasn't been active enough for me to remember who it was... 01:40:50 ...wtf is 'finnmark 01:40:52 ' 01:40:54 maybe e left again 01:41:10 hppavilion[1]: it's our northernmost county (excluding svalbard) 01:41:20 I mean, it's Finland+Denmark... but it's in Norway... 01:41:23 .oO( minpoijjikop isn't a regular ) 01:41:40 oerjan: Where's Trønnes? 01:41:54 (It's a town, from what I've been told) 01:42:15 hppavilion[1]: funny, we also had an episode in the channel a few years ago when someone found out about the name Finnmark (possibly from me) and was amazed by it 01:42:26 Huh 01:42:30 hppavilion[1]: never heard of that town 01:42:40 Maybe I'm stuck in a CTlL? 01:43:09 it's in Hedmark, in the south of the country. 01:43:12 Ah, apparently Finnmark is a county within Norway 01:43:20 hppavilion[1]: yes, as I understand them, you can write a cheque on anything so long as it contains the requisite information 01:43:21 wob_jonas: I SAID THAT 01:43:41 (it also might not be big enough that anybody knows, the same way I've never heard of Arnold, Nebraska) 01:43:48 yeah, you did, sorry 01:44:07 hpp: or maybe it's so far to the north that nobody goes there 01:46:25 Hm, Google Maps only knows about one in... Meraker? I assume that's a Norwegian county? 01:46:57 It would be nice to know for me too which places within Europe are good for living and working in case I want to leave. 01:47:07 But I don't know much about that. 01:47:10 hppavilion[1]: btw the Finn in Finnmark is the same word as Fin in Finland. afaik (1) there may be some finnish-norwegians ("kvener") there (2) people probably didn't consider the distinction between Finnish and Sami that important back then 01:47:31 Ah 01:48:18 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:49:29 hppavilion[1]: btw Trønnes is a "grend", which is very small, so more a village than a town. 01:49:42 Ah 01:50:46 (not really sure where any of the boundaries are... in my mind, village/town and town/city are interchangeable, and at the same time "city" can describe pretty much anything) 01:51:28 hppavilion[1]: Meråker is a municipality. it's part of Nord-Trøndelag county. 01:51:54 Ok... 01:52:14 Is fnord in Nord, or vice versa? /s 01:52:49 btw the Trønnes i found (on norwegian wikipedia) is not there. it apparently has the distinction of being the first place in norway to get a home for the elderly. 01:53:02 OK... 01:53:33 hpp: Norway has fjords, not fnords 01:53:42 I've seen them 01:53:47 I haven't seen any fnords 01:53:52 wob_jonas: I was under the impression a fnord is a co-fjord 01:54:00 well no one expects you to see the fnords 01:54:03 My browser abbreviates titles when I have too many tabs, and it abbreviated "Grandmaster (chess) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" to "Grandma". I can't complain. 01:54:11 OOOOOOOH 01:54:21 How deep does afnordnia typically go? 01:54:42 fungot, do you like Norway? 01:54:42 wob_jonas: guile was covered a few minutes 01:54:44 i don't know, never heard of ania before. 01:55:26 Will your brain rearrange things to fill in the gap (so if you have a page where a different word on each line, and one of the words is "fnord", will you see a blank line or will all the later words move down?) 01:55:31 s/down/up/ 01:55:34 hppavilion[1]: i think that according to some, a city needs to contain a cathedral hth 01:55:42 That works, I suppose 01:55:45 What's bigger than a city? 01:55:52 anyway, Trønnes in Hedmark has only about 100 families 01:56:00 hpp: a metropolis 01:56:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:56:24 And above that? 01:56:28 Probably a megalopolis 01:56:32 Then a gigalopolis 01:56:46 (Can we define a gigalopolis as 1000000000 or more individuals?) 01:56:48 hpp: or a city-planet like Corouscant or Trantor or Ravnica 01:56:54 Perhaps 01:57:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:58:41 So anyway, keyboard is ordered, but I'll also have to buy a new computer. I'll have to choose a motherboard and stuff. 01:59:00 then there's dyson spheres, i guess 01:59:49 and beyond that it seems a bit hard to get a continuous city. well, not that it's easy with a dyson sphere, i think those aren't actually realistically solid? 02:00:08 a ringworld, maybe. 02:00:27 oerjan: Trantor isn't realistic either 02:00:28 (just need to invent scrith[sp] first) 02:01:28 `wisdom 02:01:29 tas//TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. 02:02:07 gigalo- is a little scow. you're basically taking the greek prefix megalo- (from which mega- comes), and pretending it contains a mega- prefix. 02:02:48 giganto- would be more parallel. 02:03:09 is the next terato-, hm 02:03:26 yep 02:03:54 and from there i'm not sure they come from genuine greek. 02:05:06 hm actually it does, but not in a useful way, peta- is from penta- 02:07:01 `cwlprits tas 02:07:03 oerjan oerjan 02:07:07 wat 02:07:29 how is that possible. 02:07:36 `dowg tas 02:07:38 2016-05-07 ` sed -i \'s/A //\' wisdom/tas \ 2016-05-07 ` mv wisdom/ta{,s}; sed -i \'s/^/A /\' wisdom/tas 02:07:43 oh. 02:07:52 `cwlprits ta 02:07:54 oerjan coppro 02:08:09 `dowg ta 02:08:10 2016-05-07 ` mv wisdom/ta{,s}; sed -i \'s/^/A /\' wisdom/tas \ 2016-05-06 learn TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. 02:08:23 it really didn't seem like my style :P 02:09:06 `? tanebventions 02:09:06 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 02:09:10 `? tanebventions: math 02:09:12 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the axiom of choice, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms. 02:09:38 * oerjan gives shachaf a dowg snack 02:09:39 `? inconceivable 02:09:40 inconceivable? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:09:43 `? impossibl 02:09:44 impossibl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:09:44 `? impossible 02:09:45 impossible? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:10:43 `? hoag 02:10:44 hoag? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:11:08 oerjan: No, I took mega- from megalopolis and replaced it with giga- (because metric) 02:11:18 hppavilion[1]: that's what i said 02:11:27 and that is scow 02:11:27 And? 02:11:33 Oh, I see 02:14:18 `? mk 02:14:19 mk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:14:22 `? mkx 02:14:23 mkx? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:14:32 `? le/rn 02:14:33 le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 02:15:06 `? culprits 02:15:07 ​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 02:15:17 oerjan: It could also be terastiopolis 02:15:31 `slwd culprits//s/the lists // 02:15:32 Rosebud! 02:15:49 `slwd culprit//s/the lists // 02:15:51 wisdom/culprit//`culprits` is a program that lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 02:16:14 `` mv wisdom/culprit{,s} 02:16:15 (megalo = μεγάλο = terástios = large, terastio = 02:16:15 τεράστιος = terástios = huge) 02:16:17 No output. 02:16:42 hppavilion[1]: terato- is somewhat different. hm. 02:17:22 wait, I did something wrong... 02:18:06 Ha! 02:18:12 Wiktionary includes "ginormous" 02:18:30 well, it's a very cromulent word. 02:19:04 oerjan: I think a lot of people don't like it 02:19:26 OKAY 02:19:54 (but it says comparative is "more ginormous" and superlative is "most ginormous", when it would correctly be "ginormouser" and "ginormousest") 02:19:59 <\oren\> I tought it was spelled gynormous 02:20:01 oerjan: no, I think terato is right. I think it's greek for monster-like, and related to the same word the metric prefix tera comes from 02:20:34 \oren\: No, that's a domain-specific thing used by OB/GYNs 02:21:15 (Also, why doesn't English include the opposite of -er and -est for "more" and "most"? Something to say "less" and "least"?) 02:21:24 (It MUST have historically at some point...) 02:22:35 What's "mg"? <-- velarized m, maybe? 02:22:47 I would think so 02:23:18 of course, n can also be velarized, which seems confusing. 02:23:21 oerjan: I don't think a velarized m makes sense 02:23:42 Oh, IPA uses a ɱ 02:24:50 hpp: ɱ in IPA is not a velarized m 02:24:58 wob_jonas: oh, because m doesn't use the tongue to start with? but m can be palatalized... 02:25:08 wob_jonas: Yeah, that's the problem 02:25:31 So it looks like English n is the alveolar nasal 02:25:40 i'm not really good at distinguish velarization for anything but l, anyway. 02:25:58 hpp: [ɱ] in IPA is the the nasal stop version articulated at the same place as f, which you get from some speakers when they pronounce nf or mf 02:26:06 (God sounds are fun) 02:26:10 And ŋ is the velar nasal 02:26:22 So if m is the labiodental nasal... 02:26:38 hpp: no, it's not 02:26:48 [ɱ] is the labiodental nasal 02:26:50 Oh, no it isn't 02:26:51 Right 02:26:54 I got my tabs confused 02:26:58 wob_jonas: most likely terastios is also related to the same word, so... 02:27:04 If m is the bilabial nasal 02:27:19 called "labiodental" because it's made with your upper teeth pressed to your lower lips, and "labio" means lips and "dent" means teeth 02:27:27 yeah 02:27:30 I'm figuring it out 02:27:30 the names there actually make sense 02:27:40 Yeah, they do 02:28:07 'm' is the bilabial nasal because your lips are pushed together (in the exaggerated version you're taught in preschool) 02:28:11 And, y'know, it's nasal 02:28:15 hppavilion[1]: long words in english don't usually take -er and -est comparatives. hth. 02:28:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:28:45 these are easy to understand because they ([m], [f], [T]) are the three common places of articulation that you can actually see easily from lip-reading ([m] only when not at the start of a word) 02:28:47 oerjan: English is my L1. I think I know the rules. hth. 02:28:56 Then... I have no idea what the equivalent of ng is for m 02:29:05 the other stuff is in your mouth, so you like need X-ray to understand them 02:29:15 X-ray has been done of course, but it's not something you see every day 02:29:25 wob_jonas: Or a mouth 02:29:34 (It MUST have historically at some point...) <-- well norwegian doesn't, and i don't remember any indoeuropean language i've seen doing so. 02:29:39 hpp: a what? 02:29:52 wob_jonas: A mou... you're messing with me 02:30:01 I mean 02:30:04 what with a mouth? 02:30:12 wob_jonas: You need x-ray OR a mouth 02:30:38 You can understand stuff without x-ray if you just pay attention to your mouth 02:31:56 nah 02:32:31 wob_jonas: hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_phonology#Consonants has velarized mˠ 02:34:13 oerjan: ok 02:36:13 i was reading about velarised m recently because it finally answered my long-running mystery of why mh is pronounced /v/ some of the time and /w/ others 02:38:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:38:23 argh irish distinguishes nʲ and ɲ 02:39:01 Wait... 02:39:16 I can't see the difference between the m in 'symphony' and the m in 'rum' 02:39:45 your teeth touch your lips in the former 02:39:57 Phantom__Hoover: OH! 02:40:00 Huh 02:40:06 depends a bit on dialect and personal variation i guess 02:40:33 (Also, I was discussing that there's apparently a difference with my mother. She asked why there were labia in my nose. I had to explain the root to her.) 02:42:54 also distinguishes n̪ˠ from ŋ 02:45:02 Phantom__Hoover: oh so the mh in your name is pronounced like w? 02:45:05 Well I just tried to velarize m... 02:45:08 It's horrifying 02:45:15 oerjan, no it's silent 02:46:32 oh. 02:48:53 oh right, omh refers to another table 02:50:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 02:51:29 Is there a name for the velarized m? "velar bilabial nasal" didn't turn up anything 02:51:35 iiuc it lengthens the o 02:51:53 hppavilion[1]: velar and velarized are not the same thing 02:52:36 ...oh? 02:52:40 WTF IPA 02:52:41 WTF 02:52:55 however, i don't think wikipedia has articles for all combinations with velarized... it's an adjustment you can apply to many consonants. 02:53:05 see the velarization article 02:53:17 OK 02:53:34 hppavilion[1]: velar is primary articulation, but velarized means a secondary articulation in _addition_ to the primary one. 02:54:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:03 same for palatal and palatalized 02:55:01 (also, is there any relation between n and h, or is it just similar symbols?) 02:55:14 (looks like no relation.) 02:55:44 they're presumably both inherited from the phoenician alphabet 02:56:05 But no relation in sounds? 02:57:29 n from Nun. apparently it descends from the egyptian symbol for snake, "djet", and was used for a sound like english J there 02:58:11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N) 02:58:48 h from Heth, via greek Heta before that lost the H 02:59:17 i see, that explains why eta looks like H 02:59:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:59:41 "The original Semitic letter Heth most likely represented the voiceless pharyngeal fricative (ħ). The form of the letter probably stood for a fence or posts." 02:59:49 anyway, those articles say more. 03:01:48 hppavilion[1]: anyway, n is pretty far from h in sound, and always has been. 03:02:04 Yeah 03:02:48 unlike U,V,W and Y, which all descend from the same letter hth 03:04:06 oh, and apparently F too 03:05:59 first greek adapted F into a vowel Y, then latin got F with the original sound, borrowed greek Y as V, then borrowed it _again_ as Y, and then created U to distinguish when V was a vowel. 03:06:37 \oren\: ſ looks too much like it's supposed to be esh 03:06:43 (ʃ) 03:06:53 (or Ʃ if using uppercase) 03:06:56 and then someone created W from V, i guess. 03:11:26 actually greek had both F and Y, but lost the w sound that the former represented. 03:11:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F#History 03:14:06 I was just looking for something similar to k, but without the sudden stop 03:14:20 And I wound up in Germany with the voiceless velar fricative 03:14:28 OH MY GOD I LOVE PHONETICS SO MUCH 03:15:48 ach du lieber fonetik 03:16:29 darn 03:16:40 *ach du libe phonetik 03:16:47 argh argh 03:17:02 *Ach du liebe Phonetik 03:17:13 now food -> 03:26:44 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is there a letter that completes n:m::h:_? I can't find any such thing, but it'd be fun to mess with people with ) 03:39:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:44:33 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 03:49:04 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:53:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:17:05 -!- Kaynato has joined. 04:47:48 -!- Melvar` has joined. 04:49:20 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:49:52 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:07:12 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:14:07 looks like wikipedia is celebrating Star Trek's 50th anniversary 05:22:22 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:26:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:27:39 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 05:32:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:48 -!- augur has joined. 05:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:59:28 -!- augur has joined. 06:01:56 hppavilion[1]: k 06:02:09 ? 06:02:40 mathematical convention :) 06:03:05 Just as n and m get used as variables of a similar sort, h and k sometimes do as well 06:03:40 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 06:04:03 Cale: i think he meant visually 06:04:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:36 So like ɰ rotated 180 degrees 06:05:46 yep 06:06:00 `unidecode ɰ 06:06:01 ​[U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG] 06:06:13 -!- carado has joined. 06:06:22 `unicode M WITH 06:06:24 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ UTF-8: c9 b0 UTF-16BE: 0270 Decimal: ɰ \ ɰ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ UTF-8: c9 b1 UTF-16BE: 0271 Decimal: ɱ \ ɱ (Ɱ) \ Uppercase: U+2C6E \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ 06:06:43 `unicode M WITH | grep 'M WITH' 06:06:45 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ UTF-8: c9 b0 UTF-16BE: 0270 Decimal: ɰ \ ɰ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ UTF-8: c9 b1 UTF-16BE: 0271 Decimal: ɱ \ ɱ (Ɱ) \ Uppercase: U+2C6E \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ 06:06:52 `` unicode M WITH | grep 'M WITH' 06:06:53 No output. 06:07:07 `` unicode 'M WITH' | grep 'M WITH' 06:07:09 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ U+04CD CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER EM WITH TAIL \ U+04CE CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER EM WITH TAIL \ U+0616 ARABIC SMALL HIGH LIGATURE ALEF WITH LAM WITH YEH \ U+06B5 ARABIC LETTER LAM WITH SMALL V \ U+06B6 ARABIC LETTER LAM WITH DOT ABOVE \ U+06B7 ARABIC LETTER LAM WIT 06:07:27 `` unicode 'M WITH' | grep ' M WITH' 06:07:28 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK 06:07:33 hmph 06:21:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:28:09 ah yes, now I remember why I ignored HackEgo 06:29:43 sorted 06:44:03 :( 06:44:18 I only ignored the unicode messages 06:44:22 yay 06:44:38 I'd miss 98% of the stuff in the channel once again if I ignored it totally again 06:45:09 I'm trying to pick a couple acoustic tunes for open mic tonight 07:01:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:11:31 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I should learn drug chemistry... ) 07:13:56 Huh, apparently part of the reason anime looks the way it is is that- when it was done with cel animation- it was produced in literally the stupidest way possible 07:14:13 The animation is done first, then the voice actors try to sync with the movement 07:14:26 Rather than taking the soundtrack and making it look like the characters are talking from there 07:31:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:30 I want to release a (CGI) film branded "4D" 07:36:58 By which I mean we used math to render the entire movie in 4D (and projected down to 3D then to 2D for screen viewing) 07:37:05 Such as to give the audience headaches 07:52:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:04:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:10:12 -!- 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REALLY made this stuff watertight. 14:37:20 So if I buy stuff on PayPal, then I must pay PayPal's currency conversion fees, which are way higher than the currency conversion I can get from my bank. But there's no way to actually use the cheaper fees at the bank: 14:39:34 I can transfer money from my bank to PayPal, but if I transfer anything but HUF, then I have to pay the international bank transfer fee, even if I'm transferring from my domestic foreign currency account to Paypal's domestic account, and that fee has a high fixed minimum regardless the amount. 14:39:53 yup 14:40:07 for a while I maintained a USD credit card for that exact reason 14:40:20 but nowadays I don't buy through paypal often enough for it to matter 14:41:08 Or I can pay from a bank card with PayPal, but then they charge the card in the native currency of the bank card, and I can't cheaply have extra bank cards in multiple currencies, even though I totally can have _accounts_ in those currencies, for the extra cards are either inpossible or have a high monthlyfee. 14:42:13 I could save on the costs only if I transferred a large amount of money to PayPal at a single time, but for that I'd have to predict the currency I'm going to buy stuff on PayPal, and that's quite unpredictable: 14:42:26 Yeah, all my income goes through PayPal right now, and that conversion business is kind of annoying. 14:42:41 People sell things on PayPal in USD or CAD (from Asia or America) and in GBP or EUR (from Europe). 14:43:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:43:47 I can try to change to another bank for this, for if another bank gives better conditions, I could transfer, though it could be a bit of a hassle. 14:43:58 I'll have to go ask other banks. 14:44:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:45:04 And I don't buy expensive stuff in PayPal, only cheap stuff. 14:48:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:49:26 Cale, you aren't a face I see in here often 14:50:01 Which, to be fair, might be because I don't pay attention very much 14:50:41 or because you don't see faces on irc 14:51:26 izabera, well, *you* don't 14:51:39 what kind of irc are you using? 14:52:10 long ago i used kvirc and it had some protocol for avatars 14:52:51 Alternatively, you could try having a really vivid imagination 14:53:01 i don't even d&d 14:54:25 Oh, and the extra problem is, I'm not even sure I can actually transfer currencies other than HUF to PayPal. They only give a single bank account number for transfer, and I'm not sure it's possible for a single account number to receive multiple currencies. I called their customer support, 14:54:57 and the lady said I probably can transfer other currencies, but she's not sure, and I should try. And to try, I have to pay the expensive bank transfer fee regardless the amount. 14:56:36 Incidentally, calling their customer support on phone is an international call, which also costs a shitton. 14:56:47 Taneb: shachaf told me to join when I wrote https://hackage.haskell.org/package/category-printf and I just stuck around, but haven't had much occasion to say a whole lot 14:57:10 Cale, ooh, I hadn't seen thtat! 14:58:46 So if you guys have a plan for world domination that seems better than mine and has the side effect of getting rid of this riddiculous "country" and "international" stuff, drop me a line and I might consider supporting you. 14:59:10 Because I've had enough of this stupid politics, and maybe an evil dictator ruling with an iron fist could be better. 14:59:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:01:48 Cale, my current "esoteric" project is a property testing library called OneCheck 15:02:22 It tests each property with arbitrary input! One arbitrary input, for speed concerns 15:03:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:04:33 haha 15:04:59 You could take advantage of Data.Default 15:05:04 So like QuickCheck but quicker? 15:05:26 Cale, I'm going more arbitrary than that 15:05:40 https://github.com/Taneb/acme-onecheck/blob/master/src/Test/OneCheck.hs 15:05:53 <\oren\> Today's QC is more gratuitous speculation about how to have sex with robots. ...I guess that's fine, now the name of the comic finally makes sense. 15:08:47 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 15:25:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:30:51 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 15:44:04 -!- gamemanj has joined. 15:55:22 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:12:08 Most niche data structre I invented then forgot about: the two in one tree heap 16:12:26 A key-key-value thingy that's search tree-ordered on one key and heap-ordered on the other 16:13:40 so, do you specify 2 keys to get a value, 16:13:44 or you specify one of the two? 16:13:48 The latter 16:15:05 to get the worst onetime whenever possible? 16:15:42 myname, assuming the keys aren't correlated, the time complexities aren't too bad 16:39:46 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:59:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:09:31 <\oren\> Taneb: implement it! 17:09:59 \oren\, I'm implementing it right now 17:10:26 <\oren\> cool 17:12:03 <\oren\> hmm, you know how heapsort makes a heap in an array using power of two offsets... Maybe there should be something like qsort() and bsearch() that uses a heap search 17:17:14 Taneb: what is the advantage? so that you don't have to maintain 2 data structures with the same data? 17:17:22 (e.g. memory efficiency) 17:17:34 quintopia, I'm not sure there is one 17:19:25 i know a data structure that doesnt exist but should 17:20:02 Oh? 17:20:07 an insertion-ordered CompletionRecordDAWG 17:20:39 Directed Acyclic Wiggly Graph? 17:21:02 a DAWG is a DAFSA 17:21:12 directed acyclic word graph 17:21:17 Aaaaaah 17:22:27 this would be a dictionary that maps string keys to ... whatever, but also can give you a list of keys that are prefixes of any string and tell you which key comes before and after a given key in insertion order 17:50:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:54:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:28:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:39:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:43:58 I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that this test suite I wrote should start swapping 19:00:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:03:21 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:04:28 -!- Reece` has joined. 19:27:12 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:29:37 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:30:48 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:33:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:39:57 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:04:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:12:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:22:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:30:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:34:09 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:49:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:50:24 -!- mellifluous has joined. 20:50:30 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can one use non-euclidean geometry when drawing perspective to get OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL drawings? ) 20:51:22 -!- mellifluous has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:53:37 -!- mellifluous has joined. 20:53:45 hppavilion[1]: Imagine a hollow cube, with inset openings on each face. Now imagine that each opening went to a different place. 20:53:55 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:57 But if that would actually scare someone... 20:54:04 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 20:54:30 Non-euclidean geometry is overrated. 20:55:11 -!- mellifluous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:55:22 -!- lorenzo64 has joined. 20:57:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:05:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:06:45 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:09:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:10:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:44:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:49:57 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:57:22 `wisdom 21:57:24 ring//Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. 21:57:34 `wisdom 21:57:35 `wisdom 21:57:35 `wisdom 21:57:35 `wisdom 21:57:36 locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. 21:57:37 wumpus//Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI. 21:57:37 ghoti//"Ghoti" is a very fishy spelling. 21:57:37 szoup//A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 21:58:08 Taneb: Is that true? You invented locales? 21:58:13 Taneb: Did you invent pointless topology? 21:58:59 shachaf, locales I invented, but only locally 21:59:57 And I never really saw the point in topology 21:59:58 Taneb: Are you guilty of inventing frames? 22:00:10 No, someone set me up on that one 22:00:37 `? frame 22:00:38 A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean. 22:01:47 I don't like what you're implying there 22:03:37 Who? 22:10:38 HSTS is terrible but I can propose a better way: There is a menu that the user can set up arbitrary URI rewriting, and one option can set whether or not automatically adding rules is allowed (disabled by default). If automatically adding rules is allowed by the user setting, then the Strict-Transport-Security header can be used to automatically add/remove rules in this menu, except for rules which the user has locked. 22:12:18 Reporting of errors should not be done, and the user can always override the error; a setting may be provided to only enable the override after a specified number of milliseconds (something that Firefox does with download dialog boxes currently). 22:13:48 The setting for HPKP should be separate, and if enabled, then when there is error the user should be given the options: "Bypass", "New Context", "Change Settings", "Edit HPKP Data", "View Report", "Send Report". 22:20:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:20:47 I'm not sure what the semantics of "insert" should be on a treap 22:22:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:23:22 I don't know? 22:23:48 <\oren\> suppose Jool just rose in the east. you're moving 175 m/s east, so toward Jool. on the other side of kerbin, jool is setting in the west, so the other ship will be moving at 175 m/s away from jool. hence, relative to a ship on the other side of Kerbin, you are moving at 350 m/s. 22:24:01 <\oren\> whoops, wrong channel 22:24:22 zzo38, a treap is a purely functional data structure (I am writing this in Haskell) that is a binary tree that is heap ordered by one key and tree ordered by another 22:25:16 I am not sure if insert should clobber other entries with the same tree-ordering key 22:25:28 (by tree-ordered I mean ordered like a binary search tree) 22:25:56 \oren\: I take it that the semimajor and inclanation of the two orbits are the same 22:28:05 \oren\: at least for the purposes of mutual docking 22:28:15 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 22:28:49 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 22:33:22 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:36:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:37:30 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:52:12 -!- Caesura has joined. 23:16:01 -!- _46bit has joined. 23:16:24 <_46bit> hi! 23:16:55 <_46bit> qualifications to be here: I spent a day of work trying to command an FTP server to join IRC and talk in a channel 23:16:57 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:17:00 <_46bit> :D 23:18:17 o.o 23:18:33 you wrote an irc client in ftp? 23:18:53 that... sounds weird 23:19:05 FTP is pretty weird. 23:19:08 izabera, didn't you write a compiler in Bash 23:19:23 well yes but it compiles brainfuck to bash 23:19:30 and does several optimizations 23:19:46 not that hard, optimizations aside 23:20:40 I still need to implement the fancy brainfuck optimization thingy I thought up to see if it actually works 23:20:50 do tell 23:21:52 You can use FTP from client C to transfer files from server A to server B without passing through C (and without collecting $200). 23:21:56 I mentioned it a while back, I think, basically stuff like [->+++>++>-<<] can be turned into b += a * 3; c += a * 2; d -= a; a = 0 23:22:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:22:09 And then extending that to nested loops 23:22:33 yeah mine does that but nesting isn't too trivial 23:22:47 Which in some circumstances become quadratics, etc 23:23:37 <_46bit> I was sending commands to an FTP server that made it use an IRC server as a place to send the contents of a file to. 23:23:49 <_46bit> (That's skipping a lot of detail, but I hope it condenses things enough.) 23:24:05 Did you succeed, though? 23:24:23 <_46bit> Sadly one server I tried requires replying to "PING a_new_value" with "PONG a_new_value" 23:24:31 Yes, I've heard they do that. 23:24:46 <_46bit> I can't do that because I'd need to know a_new_value when constructing the payload to send to the FTP server. 23:25:04 Makes sense, since that's exactly why they do that. 23:25:07 I don't think Freenode's does, though. 23:25:47 <_46bit> Freenode did something different. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't join channels here. 23:26:12 <_46bit> I could set a nick, and see that freenode thought I was connected, but the FTP server couldn't actually join a channel. 23:26:22 <_46bit> Whereas running it myself using netcat did work. 23:26:36 <_46bit> It's something I hope Taneb might help me play with when he's back. 23:29:11 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:29:21 Chrome is planning to deprecate HTTP/0.9 for somewhat similar cross-protocol confusion reasons. 23:37:52 Hm 23:38:42 why does your nick sound vaguely familiar, _46bit... 23:40:08 oh 23:40:12 #herbstluftwm 23:40:23 <_46bit> indeed! 23:40:34 `relcome _46bit 23:40:36 ​_46bit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:40:37 <_46bit> I must admit, I didn't get much further than very enjoying it 23:40:39 <_46bit> aaah 23:40:44 Hehe 23:40:46 sure 23:41:11 _46bit: Are you the person Taneb mentioned? 23:41:19 <_46bit> I was doing some very complex cybersecurity teaching things all summer, and getting to know that too was more than I had mindspace for 23:41:25 <_46bit> Taneb may have mentioned me. 23:41:37 <_46bit> however Taneb knows many more people than me. 23:41:50 shachaf, _46bit was indeed the person I mentioned 23:41:53 Taneb is well-known around here. 23:41:53 The one singular personb 23:41:56 <_46bit> this was actually a little unnerving: 23:41:57 <_46bit> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ci51ntp6cmfiei/Screenshot%202016-09-08%2023.40.50.png?dl=0 23:42:01 As a Glaswegian inventor, I think? 23:42:10 <_46bit> lots of red and rainbows! 23:42:19 `welcome _46bit 23:42:20 _46bit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:42:22 <_46bit> :-) 23:42:43 <_46bit> uh oh, I already thought the word "botloop" 23:42:48 * _46bit backs away from the keyboard 23:43:05 <_46bit> if you see me poking around HackEgo, kindly kick me 23:43:08 <_46bit> :D 23:43:51 There are many bots here, and many botloops already achieved. 23:43:53 ^prefixes 23:43:53 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . 23:43:58 <_46bit> noted 23:44:04 `? tanebventions 23:44:05 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 23:44:29 Taneb: You invented Tanebventions? I didn't know that. 23:45:22 shachaf, where does it say that? 23:45:24 <_46bit> Taneb invented Taneb 23:45:34 Taneb: It's in the list. 23:46:02 <_46bit> I am curious what Taneb mentioned about me. But that risks dropping Taneb in it, so to speak. 23:46:10 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 23:47:22 I think he mentioned that you were using an FTP client to connect to an IRC server, for one. 23:47:26 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:47:35 Taneb: do you know everyone 23:47:39 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 23:47:42 FireFly, no 23:47:47 I heard you also know kline at least 23:47:58 I have met kline on at least two occasions 23:48:05 Perhaps three! 23:48:10 Taneb: Do you know anyone you don't know? 23:48:21 `? metar 23:48:23 metar is a service that allows nerds to talk about the weather. 23:48:23 I don't know 23:48:40 hi hi 23:48:41 `slwd metar//s#that#Taneb invented &# 23:48:43 wisdom/metar//metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather. 23:48:45 Taneb, three, yes 23:49:02 twice with keir and once with GTMU 23:50:10 I don't think I met kline even once. 23:50:23 Well, that's your fault for being in California 23:50:28 Neither did I, yet 23:50:29 :o 23:50:34 FireFly is in California? 23:50:37 No 23:50:53 Maybe FireFly ought to move to California. 23:50:54 <_46bit> :-) 23:50:59 That's a good excuse for not meeting kline. 23:51:06 Hmm 23:51:13 shachaf, it's concievable you've met _46bit though! 23:51:18 I think I'm more likely to meet kline than move to California, in the foreseeable future 23:51:38 Taneb: How would that happen? 23:51:48 _46bit, explain! 23:52:29 <_46bit> I spent some time YCstartupping in Palo Alto back in 2012-13. 23:52:39 <_46bit> I think that's what Taneb is referring to. 23:52:40 Aha. 23:52:46 I lived in East Palo Alto at the time. 23:53:20 Is YCstartupping different from regular startupping? 23:53:32 <_46bit> ooh, out by the marshes and things? 23:53:32 yes 23:53:47 <_46bit> you get lots of egostroking and free stuff, for one 23:53:56 <_46bit> although free stuff has become more widely available since 23:53:57 I don't think I ever heard about Dreamforge. 23:54:07 I lived right on the border of PA and EPA. 23:54:13 <_46bit> oh dear, I'm being researched. 23:54:40 <_46bit> I heard little about EPA other than that they have a lot of work to do near where I lived. 23:54:44 <_46bit> Wait. Wrong EPA. 23:54:44 _46bit, within half an hour of me joining this channel they guessed the small town I lived in 23:54:54 I live in Berkeley now. 23:55:07 How can I get lots of egostroking and free stuff, please? 23:55:43 `? wegian 23:55:44 A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). 23:55:47 `? hexham 23:55:48 Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico 23:55:57 hm 23:56:13 I had mentioned a) it was in Northumberland, and b) it was raining heavily 23:56:27 `? northumberland 23:56:28 Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE! 23:56:34 <_46bit> guess which settlement in the midwest I've visited? 23:56:38 `cwlprits northumberland 23:56:40 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull Taneb 23:56:53 <_46bit> hmm. is Jackson Hole even midwest? it's kinda west. 23:57:07 _46bit, I went to the midwest once! It was before I went to California 23:57:08 I was three 23:57:36 <_46bit> you went to the midwest three? 23:57:43 Taneb: Did you go to Minnesota? 23:57:49 <_46bit> is that like the hateful eight but as children? 23:57:57 shachaf, I am not sure, on account of being three 23:58:00 It's very possible, though 23:58:18 shachaf, we did go to Montana, if that helps 23:58:58 _46bit: When will you be in California again? 23:59:07 You can deliver certain items to Taneb. 23:59:20 <_46bit> As soon as I graduat--oh no, Taneb is here, I can't tell y'all that 23:59:21 shachaf, looking at a map, it's very unlikely I went to Minnesota 23:59:57 -!- augur has joined. 2016-09-09: 00:00:01 <_46bit> I am considering options post-graduation. If H1Bs were easier to acquire I would most surely be coming over to Boston or California. 00:00:02 Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming I think 00:00:06 I'll be sure to convey that information to shachaf, looking at a map. 00:00:15 What about shachaf, looking at a computer? 00:00:24 <_46bit> I was going to get an O1 before I parted ways with the startup, but that's not such an option now. 00:00:25 Taneb: None of those seem very midwestern to me. 00:00:33 _46bit: Why not get an O-1 now? 00:00:40 US visas are scow. 00:00:47 shachaf, the midwest is a lot further east than I thought 00:01:14 <_46bit> What's west of the midwest? 00:01:21 <_46bit> like, midwest includes chicago right? 00:01:21 probably the west 00:01:30 <_46bit> you have Mountain Time 00:01:35 <_46bit> is mountain west of the midwest? 00:02:22 Apparently I saw the four headed president, trapped in the rock 00:02:24 Most things are west of the midwest. 00:02:28 President Rushmore 00:02:49 _46bit: California is pretty good. 00:02:58 _46bit: You could get a J-1 probably? 00:03:04 I guess you already had one. 00:03:12 <_46bit> It's a fascinating place as a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. 00:03:34 "public-school" means the opposite in the UK and in the US, right? 00:03:36 _46bit, is that public school in the British sense or the American sense 00:03:43 <_46bit> I might be able to J-1. I need to examine my options very carefully soon. 00:04:05 <_46bit> The US seems unlikely, and yet a few people seem at risk of launching a campaign to acquire me. 00:04:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:04:15 <_46bit> I already get photobooks of Cambridge, MA in the post. 00:04:21 _46bit: Maybe if you get your FTP IRC client working they'll give you an O-1 based on that accomplishment. 00:04:44 <_46bit> shachaf: if only the world works that way :D which, honestly, I think it does. 00:04:47 I need to look to see where I'd like to do postgrad 00:04:53 <_46bit> Taneb: the UK sense 00:05:11 Taneb: move to california with _46bit hth 00:06:46 `learn _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. 00:06:48 Learned '_46bit': _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. 00:08:32 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:09:11 <_46bit> but I predate Taneb 00:09:17 Northumberland? Is that like a Numberwang? 00:09:18 <_46bit> not as far as y'all're concerned 00:09:21 <_46bit> but 00:09:56 You predate Taneb? 00:10:05 Taneb invented a lot of things that predated him 00:10:07 that needs to go on the wall 00:10:12 _46bit: yes, many irc servers other than freenode require a pong to start your connection. sometimes they even send a NOTICE to you about it so you can PONG manually even if your irc client is stupid. 00:10:14 don't underestimate the power of inventions 00:10:17 or tanebventions 00:10:21 shachaf, a lot of things predate Taneb 00:10:28 `? Go 00:10:29 Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. 00:10:30 I think most people in here except for maybe Phantom_Hoover predate Taneb 00:10:55 <_46bit> This seems a most charming place. 00:10:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:10:56 Actually I have no idea how predatey most people in here are 00:11:02 <_46bit> With charming people. 00:11:07 It's a curious place 00:11:08 `? wolfram 00:11:09 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 00:11:50 spämmi! 00:12:02 (the usual nilfisk stuff) 00:12:06 oh, and I forgot AUD among the currencies. 00:12:19 Perhaps _46bit is Taneb's natural predator. 00:12:37 <_46bit> wob_jonas: It's a pretty good idea. Freenode did not, but I'm convinced the system blocked my attempt some other way. I need to watch the traffic with wireshark or something to see what happened. 00:12:38 shachaf, _46bit has had many opportunities to eat me and as far as I am aware has not yet 00:12:57 <_46bit> Maybe every time I eat Taneb, a nested universe begins. 00:12:59 haven't we all 00:13:05 `? universe 00:13:06 A universe is a poem in one stanza. 00:13:24 <_46bit> `? prng 00:13:25 prng? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:13:29 I think there's maybe four people in here I've met in person? 00:13:41 _46bit: did you use a generic nickname that's not registered on freenode? and did you make sure your USER and NICK lines (and any other optional lines you sent) were formed correctly? 00:13:46 I was in the same city as fizzie for a little bit last December but I don't think I saw him 00:14:03 Anyway, I'm heading to bed 00:14:04 Goodnight! 00:14:18 <_46bit> wob_jonas: I piped the exact same commands into netcat and it succeeded. 00:14:43 _46bit: hmm 00:14:54 <_46bit> There's all sorts of reasons that isn't an identical test to abusing ProFTPD, of course. 00:15:07 I think I've met at least four people here in person, not including myself. 00:15:34 _46bit: maybe the ftp middle host you used was banned, or their open proxy scanner automatically detects open ftp servers that are so dumb as to connect to them 00:15:56 Haha 00:16:08 <_46bit> I was building a learnign exercise to be used in UK Computer Science courses. To demonstrate abusing services for scanning a private network, I reincarnated the FTP Bounce exploit into ProFTPD. http://www.ouah.org/ftpbounce.html 00:16:16 <_46bit> (If anyone's curious.) 00:16:26 Why 46 bits? 00:16:28 > 64-46 00:16:30 18 00:16:35 <_46bit> wob_jonas: Nope, it was all local, behind NAT. 00:17:02 Or maybe the machine has the ftp server connected to an identd in such a way that the identd tells freenode not to believe anything the connection from ftp says. 00:17:03 <_46bit> I'm sure there's a reason but it seems I'll have to watch the network traffic to know what - too many possible variables. 00:17:42 <_46bit> 46bit arose from me as a teenager needing an online handle I liked 00:17:46 <_46bit> and swapping 64bit around 00:17:57 <_46bit> and finding the resulting nick used nowhere 00:18:19 hm, '46bit' is available 00:18:22 maybe you ought to group it 00:18:26 That's because it starts with a digit. 00:18:30 ohh 00:18:31 Good point 00:18:40 FireFly: you can't change to nicks that start with a digit, you can only get them when the server sets one on you 00:18:54 <_46bit> it occasionally gets taken on super-populated communities, so I resort to 0x2Ebit in those cases 00:18:56 which they do only for a nick collision when servers connect after a netsplit 00:19:16 <_46bit> wob_jonas: it's a shame, but the IRC RFC does specify no opening digit 00:19:20 I'm not sure if it'd set an erroneous nickname even in that case 00:19:24 <_46bit> (someone in #cs-york checked for me) 00:19:36 _46bit: the IRC RFC specifies a lot of things that actual servers don't hold 00:19:41 <_46bit> hee, I know 00:19:54 there's been lots of changes and differences between networks 00:19:57 and few documentation 00:20:02 <_46bit> I believe I found a place where I didn't need the underscore, but I'm much less willing to experiment 00:20:22 <_46bit> ZNC and irssi have too many commands and things for me to want to fiddle 00:20:23 so much that when I want to find out something about irc, the best way is usually to ask on #freenode, which has people who know more about it 00:20:31 <_46bit> :-) 00:20:52 I mean, some things I can just try 00:21:46 but some of my questions are untestable, because they concern unlikely scenarios, like ordering between multiple servers or behavior at netsplits 00:21:48 Wait, why the hell is there a "Woman's Grandmaster" FIDE title? 00:22:18 I mean, in athletics, gender-segregation makes some degree of sense because men are naturally better-equipped for athletic tasks because evolution 00:22:32 But Chess is as far from athletic as you get, so why is there a woman's grandmaster title? 00:22:46 hpp: tradition. chess had gender differences because people simply refused to teach high level chess to women 00:22:54 Ah? 00:22:56 these days there's much less difference 00:23:01 <_46bit> Could an AI be eligible for it? 00:23:08 And worse, normal GM isn't gender restricted; WGM is only for women, AND it has a lower barrier of entry 00:23:20 So it's basically "we'll make this easier for you because you're a girl" 00:23:28 Which is sexist to BOTH genders 00:23:43 _46bit: no, there's separate categories for chess by just computers and for chess by computer combined with humans. they're needed because humans are now much weaker in chess than computers. 00:25:38 istr Judith Polgar being one of the few women to be successful at the ordinary GM 00:26:04 oerjan: Yeah, and she refused to take the WGM title too 00:26:08 *Judit Polgár 00:26:17 (she had a policy of only playing in non-gender-segregated tournaments) 00:26:34 TIL titles stack in german 00:27:04 i learned that quite a while ago, from irregular webcomic! 00:27:36 (when colonel Haken tried to greet the eldest Jones properly) 00:28:33 (of course that turned into an Overly Long Gag) 00:29:10 -!- Effilry has joined. 00:29:59 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 615 seconds). 00:30:24 bonjoerjan 00:30:28 oerjan: wait, does copying Susan B. Anthony still work these days? 00:31:17 <_46bit> I consider this a most successful entry into #esoteric. 00:31:18 <_46bit> I hope I find more to talk about tomorrow. 00:31:20 <_46bit> :-) 00:31:22 i don't remember who that is 00:31:48 oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_B._Anthony 00:31:49 "Hello, His Holy Eminence Brother Miss Doctor Reverend-Deacon Pastor-Priest Pope Cardinal Arch|+Bishop Sensei Saint Jones." 00:31:54 _46bit: you could find less, and idle harder 00:31:58 "The three-and-a-halfth" 00:32:01 an American 00:32:43 the list of wikipedia references that Judit Polgár is the strongest female player of all time is ridiculously long :P 00:32:46 <_46bit> quintopia: I tend to cull idle IRC channels. My irssi theme doesn't work so well with them. 00:33:09 _46bit: this is not an idle channel, with or without you 00:33:25 _46bit: nothing wrong with idling in an nonidle channel when you don't have anything to say 00:34:09 `adieu _46bit 00:34:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: adieu: not found 00:34:11 scow 00:34:13 scow 00:34:17 scow 00:34:19 hm 00:34:23 maybe you should implement that 00:34:30 my terminal had rendering issues 00:34:41 quintopia: hehe, now I'm reminded to that stupid channel with a bot that kicks everyone if they're idle for 24 hours (that's also the channel that used to use a byte encoding, but they changed to utf-8 later, and I think stopped that stupid bot) 00:34:48 which i guess made it look like i really like charles schwab corporation 00:35:14 It kept showing "schw" 00:35:35 hmm...well it looked fine here 00:35:46 Yes. 00:36:29 hppavilion[2]: actually it was "The Honourable Herr Schliemannian Chair Professor Doktor Doktor Jones, CBE, DCM, JP, FRS" hth 00:36:51 oerjan: Doctor Doctor? 00:37:01 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1347.html 00:37:22 (Is that what happens when you have 2 different doktorates?) 00:37:42 bonsointopia 00:39:34 OK, can we just call that one King James "King James III,V"? 00:39:55 hppavilion[2]: yep 00:40:01 (Or III & I/II) 00:40:59 oerjan: The one who was James I in England and James VI in Scotland 00:41:20 (Do we still have to 2-numbers royals named "James" after James 2-numbers?) 00:42:24 hpp: he's got two doctorates, per http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1323.html , but I think the usual real-life way to get "Doctor" twice in your name is to be a women, get a doctorate, marry a men who has a doctorate, and take his name. 00:42:25 hppavilion[2]: you know that some people think the current queen should use I in scotland, too? 00:42:45 In that case the two "Doctor" aren't adjacent though 00:43:25 wob_jonas: Or be a man who changes /his/ name 00:43:53 (Like I told my sister any man she marries has to do; he changes his name.) 00:44:02 wob_jonas: No, being married to a Doctor doesn't make you a Doctor 00:44:35 Unless you mean something like "Mr. & Ms. Dr. Smith", which I don't think is really correct 00:44:57 it was probably considered correct at one time. 00:45:28 but nowadays it sounds rather antifeminist 00:45:49 oerjan: EXCELLENT 00:45:51 Ahem 00:45:52 Sorry 00:46:17 (If you would usually say "Mr. & Ms. Smith", but one (or both) has a doctorate, are you supposed to do "Dr. & Ms. Smith"/"Mr. & Dr. Smith"/"Dr. and Dr. Smith" (though in the last case, I think "Drs. Smith" would be considered correct)) 00:46:59 i think giving up and screaming is the correct approach there 00:47:42 hppavilion[2]: I think Dr. and Dr. would be most appropriate 00:47:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 00:48:10 quintopia: & works too, but Drs. is just awesome 00:49:12 (Similarly, gay-married couples could be "Mss. Smith-Jones" or "Mrs. Smi"- oh, wait, the "Mrs." is a problem) 00:50:36 I'm still a fan of Dr*. as well 00:50:48 "Dr. Dr*. Smith" 00:51:00 hppavilion[2]: i don't think Drs. is standard except in the cases that all their last names are different. E.g. in a medical practice of "Drs. Smith, Klaxon, Blzzxxt, and Jones" 00:51:16 quintopia: Well yeah, but it's so fun to say 00:51:20 "Doctors Smith" 00:51:25 ick 00:51:31 quintopia: It's fun 00:51:32 sounds awkward 00:51:53 hpp: I'm quite sure some people here do have a Dr. in their name just because their husband has such a title. that doesn't make them a Doctor, but they have it in their name before the part of the name they took from their husband. 00:52:33 (Even though we aren't speaking German so prefixes usually don't stack, some prefixes in English do stack (e.g. "Rv. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."), and Dr*. is put on the same level as Dr. and Rv. for that) 00:52:45 hppavilion[2]: I think Drs. Smith and Smith would be fine 00:53:07 quintopia: That works too, but "A & A" is just "A" 00:53:14 Basic boolean. 00:53:18 (fnord) 00:53:23 hppavilion[2]: good thing names aren't booleans 00:53:27 hpp: Heinlein's novel ''The Rolling Stones'' has Mr. Stone (the husband) and Dr. Stone (the mother). 00:53:40 OK... 00:53:57 And this isn't even getting into metadoctors (Mdr.) 00:54:18 That books has at least two completely names for six out of the seven main characters, used depending on who calls them that, and it's not explained at the start which names name the same people, so it was horibbly confusing to me 00:55:05 (For those logreading: Dr*. is read "Co-doctor" and is a title automatically given to the spouse of a doctor, and is on the same priority level as Dr., so a doctor married to another doctor would be "Dr. Dr.* Smith") 00:55:44 The most confusing part is that the twin brothers, who are approximately 16 years old, are called Castor and Pollux, but they call each other the nicknames Grandpa and Junior. 00:55:45 wob_jonas: Was this intentional? 00:55:53 hpp: I don't know. 00:56:20 probably no, maybe others pick it up more easily 00:56:57 but seriously, calling a 16 year old boy "Grandpa" and another one "Junior" (when he has a 4 year old brother) in a book without explanation is confusing 00:57:09 (Maybe there should be an opposite of Dr. with an inherently bad connotation that's given to the child of a doctor. The only way to lose it is to get a doctorate yourself.) 00:57:12 even if it does make sense for the twins to call them that 00:57:19 it's confusing for the readers 00:57:29 wob_jonas: It sounds like this was intentional 00:57:38 Like, that it was MEANT to confuse you 00:57:54 hpp: I dunno, I never know with Heeinlein 01:03:04 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:03:11 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 01:08:08 hppavilion[2]: being the child of a doctor may be hard, but you just have to be patient 01:09:04 * hppavilion[2] takes oerjan's swatter and swats em with it ----### 01:09:38 that's my swatter, it's the wrong size hth 01:09:41 *not my 01:09:54 stupid keyboard goblins 01:13:39 oerjan 01:13:39 oerjan: "you know that some people think the current queen should use I in scotland, too?" => it seems crazy that the queen is bound by so many traditions that people would even debate this, rather than thinking that the queen has the right to get herself called whatever she wants. 01:14:13 <\oren\> Today's QC is more gratuitous speculation about how to have sex with robots. ...I guess that's fine, now the name of the comic finally makes sense. <-- this comment was confusing coming right after a discussion of QuickCheck 01:15:53 Hm, "Gentleman" specifically refers to a man of "good, courteous conduct" (and lady to the female counterpart) 01:15:57 wob_jonas: this is britain. the monarchy is made of pure unadulterated traditions hth 01:16:19 oerjan: yeah, I know 01:16:22 So would you use "Ladies and Gentlemen" when referring to a crowd where some members are not of good, courteous conduct? 01:16:35 happens in other monarchies too 01:16:37 ladies, gentlemen, and scoundrels 01:16:53 i'm sure some comedians must have done that 01:17:08 What's QC again? 01:17:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:17:33 a webcomic with somewhat questionable content 01:18:45 like how many government institutes before 1914 were called "K & K" because the king is the emperor of Austria and the king of Hungary 01:19:38 even after 1914 for a while I think 01:20:38 because of the Steward of Gondor stuff 01:21:44 iirc finland still has laws that refer to kejsaren, aka the tsar or russia 01:22:56 oerjan: here documents referred to the People's Republic for a while until they could rename everything 01:23:08 (OK, I'm getting a little confused. Is the correct spelling "bear with me" or "bare with me" when not saying "let's go be bears"?) 01:23:31 hppavilion[2]: the former i think. 01:23:41 Dammit 01:23:44 unless you're stripping. 01:23:50 That makes "Bear with me" so much less funny 01:23:52 Not right now 01:26:28 hm possibly finland cleaned that up eventually too. i'm having trouble finding evidence. 01:26:30 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:26:57 Like, the coat of arms used to be present in a lot of places here, on official documents and government buildings and all the primary schools; but when the Republic was established, there were lots of more urgent stuff to do than to replace the signs everywhere, 01:27:05 http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/1269/is-it-bear-or-bare-with-me 01:27:17 so for a while you could see the People's Republic coat of arms on lots of buildings still. 01:28:40 That's been done long ago though, you can't find the old coat of arms or mentions of "People's Republic" anywhere. Instead they're replacing "Állami" to "Nemzeti" in the names of lots of institutions now. 01:33:42 I need a Hat of Legs 01:43:38 `? tanebventions: math 01:43:39 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the axiom of choice, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms. 01:44:06 `? axiom of choice 01:44:07 axiom of choice? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:44:12 poor 01:44:19 `slwd tanebventions: math//s/y,/y, locales,/ 01:44:20 wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the axiom of choice, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 01:44:28 `? locale 01:44:29 Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. 01:44:43 `wisdom axiom 01:44:44 cat: : No such file or directory \ // 01:45:18 `cwlprits axiom of choice 01:45:20 No output. 01:45:35 `slwd tanebventions: math//s/the axiom of choice, // 01:45:38 wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 01:45:57 see stated policy in the logs. 01:50:06 HSTS is terrible but I can propose a better way: There is a menu that the user can set up [...] <-- i'll state (reiterate?) what i consider obvious: the entire point of HSTS is to provide the right default for users who haven't thought carefully about their security. thus requiring a menu to enable it completely misses the purpose. 01:50:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:50:46 *swap point and purpose above 01:50:58 ...it's kind of funny that UC wanted to make emoji more representative of race (because someone was doing it wrong by using actual skin colors) 01:51:07 So they added Fitzpatrick markup 01:51:31 Except they merged type 1 and type 2 (the two that would be classified as "white") into a single one 01:52:24 By "funny" I mean "a tiny bit racist, but of the variety that a non-white person could complain about but a white person can't, even to people they can complain about more overt racism to" 01:52:41 of course a menu to adjust/disable it might be useful for power users. 01:54:36 . o O ( hppavilion[2] doesn't get to discuss PC issues more than twice a week... ) 01:54:46 oerjan: That was never a rule 01:54:57 thus it's in . o O ( ) hth 01:55:19 it's happening in a hypothetical world where i'm less patient hth 01:55:32 hey should add a Hitler Emoji. With the note that you're required to support ALL fitzpatricks or not use it at all 01:55:51 Just to insult Hitler even though he's already dead 01:59:07 i'm not sure insulting hitler actually helps with anything other than feeling smug. 01:59:14 ^ 02:03:42 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:05:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:07:48 Update: it is probably not only expensive, but impossible for me to do a bank transfer in foreign currency to PayPal. 02:13:55 <\oren\> wob_jonas: really? I haven't had any trouble paying things in rubles or USD on paypal 02:16:41 * oerjan whistles innocently 02:17:31 \oren\: I can shop in other currencies by PayPal, but PayPal charges my card in HUF, so I pay PayPal's very expensive currency change rates rather than my bank's much cheaper rates 02:18:04 \oren\: it seems like the bank can offer such cheap currency conversion rates because it's practically impossible to actually do anything with those rates without additional high charges 02:18:28 Ok, that's false 02:18:53 I can most certainly pay with a bank card on a POS terminal in a foreign country to get the cheap rates. 02:19:28 But I can't use the cheap rates to shop online with PayPal, for which I'd like to pay in GBP or other currencies. 02:20:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spot_the_cow.gif 02:22:20 found the cow 02:22:21 `? tanebventions 02:22:23 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 02:22:40 good, good 02:25:17 . o O ( wait, do all cows turn spherical when in a vacuum? ) 02:27:57 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:28:33 izabera: No, it's a cow named "Spot" 02:28:46 :) 02:28:57 * hppavilion[2] . o O ( The Pope, at some point (it was Urban VIII apparently), declared the rules for how religious titles correspond to monarchical titles (Pope = King, Cardinal = Prince, and presumably Archbishop|Bishop = Archduke|Duke. Not sure where it goes from there.) 02:29:09 What if there was an academic equivalent 02:31:03 Um, what observable effect does that correspondence have? 02:33:11 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 02:33:15 wob_jonas: Not really sure? 02:34:07 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:36:23 hppavilion[2]: table sittings hth 02:37:59 *positions 02:41:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:41:50 How can I get lots of egostroking and free stuff, please? <-- you live in berkeley, isn't that ego stroking enough? 02:42:08 Why? 02:42:58 i guess a berkeleyan would be the last to understand. 02:49:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:20:12 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:23:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:41:21 oerjan: It can be enabled by default if you want to I suppose, but I think it shouldn't be. (Anyways I would want to use the web browser program which is for the experts only, because the other ones just aren't so good) 03:59:00 ok 04:00:26 ais523: it looks like the spammers have taken a break 04:01:01 they often do that 04:01:09 I made filter 9 a little less restrictive recently 04:01:17 i saw that 04:01:21 because legitimate users were failing at reading comprehension 04:01:43 but some of them are still failing at bothering to complete it 04:01:49 (or so it seems) 04:02:32 we could possibly get fizzie to disable anonymous editing in the site config? because it's effectively disabled anyway 04:02:33 well, except the users seem to have taken a break too. 04:02:42 it's a quiet time for the Internet in general 04:02:53 I'm not quite sure why, but most of the other online forums I've been in have also seen a lull in activity 04:02:53 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 04:03:05 could be that people are on holiday 04:03:37 ais523: yeah if we're keeping anonymous editing disabled, it's better to stop people before they've composed an edit 04:04:07 we could try disabling filter 9 for a bit and turning it back on the next time there's a spam attack? 04:04:14 ais523: i assume it's school/colleges picking up? 04:04:16 although I'm not checking Esolang regularly any more 04:04:29 oerjan: it's a little too early for that 04:04:38 and that normally causes an increase rather than reduction in activity 04:04:48 the "september surge" is a good time for recruiting people to online communities 04:04:53 ais523: the problem with that is that we still haven't got an emergency halt button. 04:05:32 fizzie was looking a bit into better filtering, but i think he only got as far as upgrading the wiki 04:05:42 I don't think an emergency stop button would be useful 04:05:54 the odds that someone who knows where it is is online at the same time as the spammers are fairly low 04:06:36 ais523: we'd have to advertize it a bit 04:07:01 oops, *s 04:07:16 "In a rare show of solidarity, both British English and American English spell advertise with an s in all forms." 04:07:38 yes, that's one of the only consistently -ise words 04:07:48 I wonder if it's because it has a different etymology from the others 04:08:07 after all, "advertise" doesn't really mean "make into an advert", but "make an advert about" 04:08:24 (and "advert" is IIRC an abbreviation for "advertisement" rather than the /stem/ of "advertisement") 04:08:44 could be that people are on holiday <-- i think some countries have holidays at about this time, because the middle of summer is too hot for travelling or something. 04:10:45 alternatively, that also applies to destinations. 04:11:29 heh, I tried to look up the etymology of "advert" on Wiktionary and my ad blocker blocked it 04:11:37 sheesh 04:12:22 easy enough to add an exception, I just found it amusing (and confusing before I figured out what was going on) 04:13:26 hmm, it seems that "advertise" and "advertisement", although they share a root historically, diverged more recently than they were imported into English 04:13:49 and that the most likely theory about the spelling of "advertise" is that it was influenced by that of "advertisement" 04:14:04 *diverged before they were imported into English 04:14:04 hm 04:15:34 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2e4K9Jvug 04:16:20 * oerjan needs to stop clicking on \oren\'s links 04:16:31 we have exceedingly diverging music tastes 04:20:24 you should learn to be incredibly adverse to following links on IRC, like I am 04:20:28 (for a while I had my client block them altogether) 04:21:06 my client doesn't follow links, i have to cut and paste them. 04:22:34 since it's inside putty 04:23:07 i don't follow links from any random newbie 04:23:52 and i do look at the domain. i'd probably not follow url shorteners unless i'm told what it is. 04:27:59 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:34:14 I don't follow YouTube links or URL shortener links, in general 04:34:47 what about links to YouTube's URL shortener (youtu.be)? 04:35:11 I don't watch YouTube 04:35:14 zzo38: https://www.kamogo.com/17 04:35:23 Which is what? 04:37:34 I think that doesn't even work properly 04:46:13 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:47:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGuu8QMk6E 04:56:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:58:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td-ZUm9Pixc 05:00:37 <\oren\> idea: a url shortener that runs some sort of distributed computing thing before redirecting 05:01:01 <\oren\> such as a DDOS attack 05:01:19 yes because that's what anyone wants with a url shortner 05:01:29 3s latency before being redirected 05:01:34 <\oren\> well, you obviously would at first only redirect 05:01:55 <\oren\> but on DDOS day.... 05:02:33 is it a wednesday? 05:02:36 it must be a wednesday 05:02:55 <\oren\> today is friday 05:04:02 <\oren\> izabera: well, maybe you would track usage patterns before DDOS day, then schedule it for the day of the week with highest usage 05:04:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:04:49 <\oren\> many url shorteners have some letency while they show advertizements 05:04:54 -!- bibibi has quit (Quit: bibibi). 05:05:06 i never click them 05:06:36 -!- bibibi has joined. 05:31:39 I have suggested before, to put texts of Magic: the Gathering cards into computer as RDF data (for example "Counter target spell" may become [:counter [:target :spell]]); this might then compile into something else to implement game in computer, or may be interpreted to implement game in computer. However, another advantage of this which was not the original point of it, is that you might make SPARQL queries to search for cards by effect instead o 05:31:46 Do you like this? 05:48:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:10:45 -!- lorenzo64 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:38:56 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:16:21 -!- carado has joined. 07:25:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:44:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:50:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:51:23 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:00:58 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 08:03:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:08:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:20:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:30:59 Can a LL parser be extended so that right sides of productions can be DFAs? How does this affect what it is capable of recognizing? 08:39:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:39:16 -!- gniourf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:41:27 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:46:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:52:45 -!- augur has joined. 09:09:50 -!- _46bit has changed nick to \46bit. 09:10:18 * \46bit did not know one could backslash instead of underscore 09:13:08 \ is upper-case | in IRC. 09:13:18 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:19:13 <\46bit> ah, OK 09:22:28 * Robdgreat is now known as 💩 09:23:44 Morning 09:25:33 hallo 09:36:13 `WELCOME TANEB 09:36:15 TANEB: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: . (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON EFNET OR DALNET.) 09:36:38 Can you not be so loud I've only just woken up 09:37:58 <\46bit> `RELCOME TANEB 09:37:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: RELCOME: not found 09:38:07 <\46bit> that's probably a good thing 09:38:20 \46bit: please be respectful of Taneb's wishes twh 09:38:50 `? tanebventions: math 09:38:51 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 09:38:58 <\46bit> shachaf: :-) 09:38:59 `? histogram 09:39:01 Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them. 09:39:18 `? the reals 09:39:20 The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 09:39:23 scow 09:39:29 @tell oerjan I didn't realize filter 9 effectively disables anonymous editing; turning it off "properly" SGTM. 09:39:30 Consider it noted. 09:39:32 `? lambek's lemma 09:39:33 Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. 09:39:34 @tell ais523 I didn't realize filter 9 effectively disables anonymous editing; turning it off "properly" SGTM. 09:39:34 Consider it noted. 09:39:57 fizzie: Do non-Google people use "SGTM"? 09:40:08 shachaf: Non-Google Chrome developers do. 09:40:13 I thought so, but then someone in another channel said it was a Google thing. 09:40:17 `? SGTM 09:40:18 Sergeant Mustard 09:40:23 tdh 09:40:26 Anyway for years my sister thought it meant "silently giggling to myself". 09:40:45 She thought I was laughing at her whenever anything good happened. 09:41:46 <\46bit> that's unfortunate 09:42:32 Chrome people don't count. 09:43:08 `? klein bottles 09:43:09 ​ klein bottles? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:43:13 `? klein bottle 09:43:14 ​ klein bottle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:43:17 ? 09:43:21 `` rgrep -i klein wisdom 09:43:21 According to the Internet, it's general "Internet slang", but I have to say I don't recall hearing it much (if at all) pre-Google. 09:43:29 wisdom/tanebventions: math:Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. \ wisdom/klein bottle:A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside. 09:43:41 Oh, double space. 09:44:07 If anyone can get trapped inside a klein bottle it's me 09:44:08 @ask oerjan was that pun truly an accident? twh 09:45:24 `? d-module 09:45:25 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 09:51:50 shachaf: In my logs there are 31 instances of 'sgtm', all but two of which are from #esoteric; most are from >= 2105, but there's 6 from 2013 (4x shachaf, 2x kmc); the two non-#esoteric instances are from ##c and #nethack. 09:51:58 I'm not sure you can deduce anything from that. 09:52:44 (Except that I need a full-text index for my logs, the query was SO SLOW.) 09:54:30 or an extra data center hth 09:56:33 I should switch to logging protos, then I'd be more motivated to build tools for browsing them. 09:57:03 As it is, I tend to just grep over the raw files instead of even querying the db. 09:57:20 I'm not sure why that's a problem, but it feels like a problem. 09:57:51 fizzie: What's a good tool to run various queries on a proto-based log format? 09:58:02 Dremel, I guess. 09:58:07 That I can use. 10:00:18 I don't think there is one. Uh, upload it into Storage and use BigQuery? (I think that's just Dremel.) 10:01:53 That I can run locally. 10:02:06 I didn't think there was one either, but I was hoping to be wrong. 10:03:09 There should probably be something jq-like for protos. 10:04:21 Yes. 10:07:12 The whole "not self-describing" thing makes that a little less appealing. 10:11:30 I have a silly script that runs daily to fetch account balances for my pay-as-you-go phone account (they're very bad at providing any records), it writes the results into sqlite but for some unfathomable reason (temporary insanity?) also logs in protos. 10:16:35 I'd still like to advocate brainfuck interpreters where the cells are in Z/pZ for some prime p 10:17:22 (I like p = 127 or 257 for this) 10:18:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:19:59 <\46bit> I can't quite figure out what that would look like, Taneb. 10:20:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:21:02 \46bit, basically, it'd mean that balanced loops that don't contain , on the conditional cell either always halt or never halt 10:21:20 And you can decide this at compile time 10:21:59 (balanced with regards to < and >, that is each iteration tests the same cell) 10:22:51 Because Z/nZ is a field! :D 10:23:48 And there's a surjective homomorphism from the algebraic-structure-describing-the-increment-operation from the naturals to it 10:24:11 Which is useful for brainfuck 10:24:21 (that might in fact be a monoid homomorphism but I am not sure) 10:24:43 Taneb: So does [[-]>,[-<+>]<] always halt or not? It doesn't contain a , on the conditional cell, and is balanced. 10:25:38 fizzie, hmm. 10:25:48 That does not always halt or not 10:25:54 I may have rethink slightly 10:26:31 I'm going to add the condition "Does not contain a nested loop affecting the conditional cell" 10:37:45 yay I'm listening to a talk about Malbolge... 10:40:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:43:23 :D 10:50:13 "The difficult task of writing a general program in Malbolge was completed for real in 2005 by Hisashi Iizawa, Toshiki Sakabe, Masahiko Sakai, Keiichirou Kusakari, and Naoki Nishida." ... I had not realized that I know two of these people. 10:50:45 (Masahiko Sakai is the speaker) 11:08:16 12:52:18 -!- gniourf has joined. 13:01:12 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:24:55 -!- actuator has joined. 13:25:46 hi 13:30:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:31:08 -!- actuator has left. 13:39:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:43:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:04:45 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:27:10 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:55:33 [wiki] [[Malbolge Unshackled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49698&oldid=47353 * Malbranche * (+129) /* External resources */ Link to Brainfuck interpreter proving Turing-completeness 14:58:37 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:59:34 [wiki] [[User:Malbranche]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49699&oldid=47305 * Malbranche * (+162) Work on Malbolge Unshackled 15:02:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:02:42 -!- clog has joined. 15:07:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:17:04 -!- gamemanj has joined. 15:25:57 So... I was going through self-hosting file storage solutions, and the 2 good ones required PHP, one of which had an unexplained libselinux dependency. And they all require that you have a device with enough storage capacity for all the files. 15:31:50 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:33:24 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:39:44 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 15:39:58 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:51:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:59:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:04:26 (By "device with enough storage capacity for all the files", I was referring to the server. Just realized that might be ambiguous. Nowadays, servers tend to have less space than the clients...) 16:06:50 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:11:55 what would you consider the most important feature to implement in a df like after digging? 16:12:39 cats 16:12:54 (but then again, I'm insane) 16:13:03 (and/or like cats. pick any 1.) 16:13:20 i tend to say workshops 16:20:25 -!- keemyb has joined. 16:37:16 <\oren\> myname: objects that can be moved using stockpiles 16:37:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:39:24 yeah, items in general. i have to look for graphics 16:39:57 <\oren\> what graphics? 16:40:28 <\oren\> you're not using characters? 16:40:31 first stuff i am going to make is probably stone, wood and barrels 16:40:40 i'm not 16:40:54 i may, if i don't find somebody to make graphics in the long run 16:41:22 <\oren\> ▬ <- a brown one of these. wood. done. 16:42:34 <\oren\> • <- gray. stone. done. 16:42:38 i need tilesets nontheless :) 16:42:55 <\oren\> You could of course use emojis! 16:43:11 i could, yeah 16:43:28 in practice, i just wildly modify an existing game 16:43:44 <\oren\> or the non-emoji character variants of emojis, if you still want each object to be one character cell 16:44:58 i still have a small problems with ramps to fix 16:45:02 <\oren\> ☂ <- This is a pine wood and horse leather umbrella. It is of the utmost quality. 16:45:14 lol 16:45:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:46:11 <\oren\> It is hung with rings of rose gold and amber, and inlaid with a picture in rat bones of Ugrak the Orc. Ugrak is weeping. 16:46:57 that is way more advanced than what i am going to do for now 16:47:12 i am not planing to do different stones for now, at all 16:47:26 <\oren\> The picture relates to the imprisonment in Woodsgelding of Ugrak the Orc in 1348 16:48:12 and i need to write a name generator some time 16:52:17 <\oren\> Trump appeared on RT to praise Putin 16:53:00 <\oren\> If he wins, the cold war is over, with victory to Russia 17:37:01 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZREQWva082s 17:37:38 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:38:41 -!- puckipedia has joined. 17:38:58 Oh man, I'm very proud of myself now, even if what I did was by accident. 17:39:12 \oren\: i wouldn't understand a word without subs 17:39:16 And might not have even worked. 17:40:45 " the "september surge" is a good time for recruiting people to online communities" -- what? 17:40:50 what September surge/ 17:40:53 <\oren\> izabera: Yeah Stack is not good at english... 17:41:06 is that like the rush to the shops to buy useless stuff to schoolchildren? 17:41:31 <\oren\> I guess some kids might get new laptops at that time 17:41:46 \oren\: yes, they do 17:41:59 and tablets and smartphones and whatever they use these days 17:42:31 -!- \46bit has changed nick to [46bit. 17:42:52 I thought that was a reference to the phenomenon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September is about. 17:44:05 * wob_jonas leans back in his comfy chair staring at this channel on a huge monitor with smug superiority radiating the belief that the large noisy box next to him is a better way to enjoy this text chat than those fancy tiny devices 17:45:11 Incidentally, I think I was told a lot of people have now used the interwebs for the first time over a smartphone. 17:45:28 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/06/smartphones-most-popular-way-to-browse-internet-ofcom 17:46:05 <\oren\> fizzie: my little cousin didn't know that you could get youtube on a laptop 17:46:08 fizzie: wait, is that even possible? 17:46:28 <\oren\> until I showed him a few weeks ago 17:46:46 <\oren\> wob_jonas: yes, if the "people" in question are 6 years old 17:48:07 wob_jonas: Why wouldn't it be possible? 17:48:27 I can see the text now... 17:48:45 fizzie: dunno, 17:48:52 "To improve the overall user experience, Youtube users are required to have WebGL 2, which means you have to support OpenGL ES 3. THIS MEANS YOU, IRONLAKE USERS." 17:49:24 *cue mass shift to youtube-dl* 17:49:28 \oren\: your little cousin is stupid 17:49:31 there i said it 17:49:32 <\oren\> To him, I'm some ancient relic who went to a party in the year 2000. 17:50:00 <\oren\> the year 2000 is 10 years before he was born 17:50:26 <\oren\> like, the equivalent of someone talking to me about 1983 17:51:01 <\oren\> or talking to my dad about like 1946 17:51:13 "Mobile-only internet usage is also becoming more common, driven predominantly by Millennials, of which 21 percent are no longer using desktop computers to go online." 17:51:18 "Back in the day, those awesome graphics cards were branded ATI! You hear me? A! T! I!" 17:51:44 (The merger happened in 2010, so your little cousin would not know of this.) 17:51:46 fizzie: what is this "protos" you mention? 17:52:02 wob_jonas: Protobufs. You know, protocol buffers. 17:52:05 gamemanj: no way. even back then NVDIA cards were more awesome, just more expensive too. 17:52:45 Matrox is where it's at. 17:53:36 <\oren\> Back in the day, the USA wasn't at war in the middle east 17:53:56 I had at least a Matrox Mystique 220, a G200 and a G450. 17:54:15 <\oren\> the president was named "Bill Clinton" 17:54:17 mplayer had a custom 'mga' output driver for hardware-accelerated video on them. V. fancy. 17:54:20 Meh. Think about it this way. AMD's easier on the drivers under some conditions, and if you're worried it's not powerful enough... seriously, please, for the love of all that you know, avoid anything marked "i3 M370". 17:54:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:54:36 That should recalibrate your definition of power. 17:55:22 Yeah, and we had mouse with two buttons, and 14 inch CRT monitors with 100 hertz refresh rate and way more vivid colors than what you have now on these TFTs, and a Gmail with no "delete" button. 17:55:45 <\oren\> And the most awesome internet games were written in Shockwave Flash 17:56:00 <\oren\> which your ipad can't even run 17:56:39 neither can my laptop with arch 17:56:44 wasn't there an xkcd about the delete button in gmail? 17:56:45 I can't find it 17:56:45 -!- Caesura has joined. 17:57:38 <\oren\> Oh, and the prime minister was Jean Chretien 17:57:58 "Jean Chretien"? Never heard of them. 17:58:10 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chr%C3%A9tien 17:58:11 * gamemanj goes looking 17:58:24 Ah. 17:58:27 <\oren\> He's famous for punching a heckler in the face 17:58:42 So, basically, one of the few rare politicians that ever did anything. 17:58:45 \oren\: what? wasn't Chretien prime minister only a few years ago? 17:58:56 hmm no 17:59:00 time runs fast 17:59:11 <\oren\> wob_jonas: no. then there was paul martin, and then stephen goddamnhim harper 17:59:20 ah 17:59:36 I'm guessing harper, whoever they are, was not very good at government? 17:59:51 Either that or he literally had "Goddamnhim" as a middle name. 18:00:03 gamemanj: I understand some people say he ruined canada or something 18:00:11 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:00:12 I don't really follow politics on the other side of the pond 18:00:18 (nor here much, mind you) 18:00:52 I don't follow politics, in general, that much. 18:00:59 <\oren\> gamemanj: basically he allowed Canada's economy to become way too tied to oil 18:01:10 And then the oil dried up? 18:01:11 <\oren\> and its currency 18:01:26 <\oren\> gamemanj: nah, just became worthless with the advent of shale 18:01:42 <\oren\> it's still there, but uneconomical to extract 18:02:29 Oh man. So something is broken about rendering MathML in this browser, because the same problem (too high parenthesis) appears on multiple wobsites. 18:02:36 Must be a client problem. 18:03:11 <\oren\> he also prorogued parliament to prevent certain bills from getting passed 18:03:31 <\oren\> and to prevent a vote of no confidence 18:03:48 "prorogued"? what does that mean? 18:04:19 <\oren\> wob_jonas: he didn't let parliament hold any sessions for months 18:04:32 ok 18:05:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:06:03 <\oren\> then in 2011 there actually was avote of no confidence 18:06:41 <\oren\> harper won again, but he lost the regular election this year 18:07:13 <\oren\> er, last year 18:08:31 <\oren\> he's no longer in politics 18:12:29 <\oren\> I find MathML is often screwed up 18:12:47 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 18:13:00 <\oren\> hippavilion[2]! 18:14:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:17:14 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:22:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:32:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:33:27 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zb8fbs7685xpkiu/Screenshot_20160909-191854.png?dl=0 i do think i made a mistake somewhere 18:38:34 -!- [46bit has changed nick to _46bit. 18:39:27 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:48:26 -!- Caesura has joined. 18:49:16 myname: mistake? I see no mistake. 18:49:59 there is one dwarf on that layer (as indicated in the top right) 19:04:00 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 19:27:06 <\oren\> According to an online quiz, I'm more likely to be a native swedish speaker than English 19:27:24 <\oren\> http://gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish/ 19:27:43 does this surprise you? 19:28:04 <\oren\> yes, given I don't know any swedish and I've never been to sweden. 19:28:52 I would do the quiz, but it requires age and gender. 19:28:55 No thanks. 19:29:09 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 19:29:11 <\oren\> "Ore guesses for your native language: 1: Swedish, 2: Dutch 3: English" 19:29:48 time to cheat the quiz age/gender thingy, just for the fun of it 19:30:47 <\oren\> Also their dialect chioces were "1: Ebonics 2: Canadian 3: General american" 19:32:57 Oh, the cheats... so apparently they decided that normal tags 19:33:31 which are stopping me from saying that I am an immortal verminicious knid. 19:41:01 Aha. Use the DOM inspector to add in your preferred option, then run $("#gender").select2(); to create the new choicebox. 19:46:17 interesting, it guessed german for me 19:46:21 which is correct 19:46:45 also, my dialect seems to be aave 19:50:01 Is a ¡ a "gnab"? 19:51:12 Probably a qɐuƃ 19:52:32 So, apparently, I'm from New Zealand. This, of course, is completely false. 19:54:13 german, english, dutch are the 3 guesses for me 19:54:32 and now... "In the Country Of United Kingdom"... 19:55:00 seriously, they say "country" and define the United Kingdom as a country, they are asking for me to deliberately break the system now. 19:55:10 I am entering in England. 19:55:22 I said it in Hebrew -- I said it in Dutch -- / I said it in German and Greek. / But I wholly forgot (and it vexes me much) / That English is what you speak. 19:56:39 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:56:39 I'm trying that test now 19:56:44 -!- lorenzo64 has joined. 19:58:04 It has some tricky questions. 19:58:04 the best part is, that somehow, the console isn't indicating any server errors due to my... interesting... input. 19:58:22 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:58:23 Or at least none that the server sent back, anyway... 20:03:07 It says "Our top three guesses for your English dialect: 1. US Black Vernacular / Ebonics 2. New Zealandish 3. South African. Our top three guesses for your native (first) language: 1. English 2. Dutch 3. Swedish" 20:04:39 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:04:54 "Our top three guesses for your English dialect: 1. US Black Vernacular / Ebonics 2. New Zealandish 3. Singaporean" "Our top three guesses for your native (first) language: 1. Swedish 2. English 3. Dutch" 20:07:43 shachaf: the book is in my possession! not sure if I'll have time to read this weekend but will try 20:07:48 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:07:51 copumpkin: whoa whoa whoa 20:07:59 copumpkin: After you read this book I can send you more books. 20:08:05 oh shit 20:08:11 books rot the mind 20:08:19 good point 20:08:38 I recommend a book to kmc that he really liked. 20:09:05 shachaf: won't that cause a downtime between the two books when the second book is still in postage/ 20:09:12 Maybe you should read that one. 20:09:24 wob_jonas: copumpkin deserves a break. 20:10:03 copumpkin: Remind me, were you an expert in Russian history? 20:10:07 no 20:10:10 copumpkin: _The Coast of Utopia_ was so good 20:10:16 That's a play, not a book. 20:11:06 I guess that's irrelevant. 20:19:09 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:22:17 -!- Reece` has joined. 20:28:55 Every time you read a book, shachaf sends you two more books. 20:29:23 awesome 20:30:31 fizzie: is there a flip side? like, every time you don't read a book he's sent within reasonable time, he takes away another random one of your books? 20:33:37 I don't know, I don't subscribe to the service. 20:33:54 But that sounds reasonable. 20:34:15 anyway, those aren't good rules, because then you can get stuck with zero books in the queue 20:35:00 a better rule might be something like this: whenever you have two or fewer books in your read queue plus in transmit from shachaf, shachaf sends you two more books. 20:35:04 fizzie: Do you want to subscribe? 20:35:21 shachaf: can I request particular books? 20:35:29 fizzie: Now that you're British do you drink a lot of tea? 20:36:06 shachaf: No, yes (well, sort-of). 20:36:15 "Now that you're British"? 20:36:25 * gamemanj is confused 20:36:28 fizzie: What sort of tea? 20:36:40 I've been trying to sign up for someone's tea recommendation of the month club. 20:36:57 I drink more tea now because the new office's MKs have this tap from which hot water comes out of, without having to pour it into a water cooker and waiting for few minutes. 20:37:14 shachaf: oh, I'm bad at that. I mostly just drink the sort of empty tea I call "colored water" 20:37:21 Ah, yes, the "do not ever let it near a child, they are guaranteed to hurt their hands" taps 20:37:29 fizzie: TG 20:37:32 gamemanj: It's got a child-"proof" thing. 20:37:34 certainly not British stuff that has a taste 20:37:45 (even if it's sometimes a horrible taste) 20:37:46 fizzie: Are there any shortened URLs containing the string "pooch"? 20:38:01 fizzie: I heard there was a spot of the kerfuffle about URL shortening recently. 20:38:17 gamemanj: You get cold water at the press of a button, but for hot water you need to press a button first, and then a different button in a short interval of time. 20:38:34 fizzie: Do not underestimate children. 20:38:36 fizzie: No way a child would ever figure that out. 20:38:44 yeah 20:38:53 Well, I'm a bit worried, because *I* could figure it out without instructions. 20:38:56 you have to press buttons? surely no child would ever want to waste his time on pressing buttons to see what happens 20:39:13 The two hot-water buttons are identical, and once you've pressed one, the other blinks. 20:39:23 ... 20:39:28 it blinks. 20:39:33 It... It blinks. 20:39:42 Are they asking for scalded hands? 20:39:45 we've already talked about this today. children these days just use their touchscreen smartphones, they don't like pressing actual buttons 20:39:58 The Chicago office had a TEAbot. 20:40:28 A sort of a thing with jars of loose-leaf tea, and a tablet as the user interface. 20:40:39 Where are the buttons, are they placed under the tap so you have to reach in carefully, or press it with the cup? 20:40:49 fizzie: please recommend a loose-leaf tea twh 20:40:50 http://www.foodandwine.com/fwx/drink/teabot-tea-making-robot-tea-lovers-dreams 20:40:52 Like that. 20:41:37 shachaf: I'm not a high-fidelity tea person, I just pick from what's been supplied. 20:41:48 Is a tea make considered unoriginal and bland if it's a Braintea derivative? 20:41:59 I've bought the Clipper brand things because they have nice boxes. 20:42:17 You know, like these soda machines where you just have to push your cup forward under the tap to trigger a mechanical handle with the cup, but instead people try all sorts of things like pushing or pulling the handle with their hands, with or without a cup. 20:42:26 fizzie: Nice boxes? That sounds good. 20:42:53 fizzie: "supplied"? like at work? 20:43:16 fizzie: But all I see is bags? 20:43:32 wob_jonas: Put a symbol on the side of the mug, and an obviously interlocking symbol on the machine port. 20:43:35 That might work. 20:44:39 -!- lorenzo64 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:44:53 <\oren\> Today is Cirno Day! ⑨/⑨ 20:45:04 gamemanj: dunno, good interface design is hard 20:45:10 Yay Cirno Day! 20:45:12 <\oren\> ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQq_mZc3y_s 20:46:30 wob_jonas: Yes. Preparing hot water without the handy tap is such a chore, I do all my tea at work. 20:47:01 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:47:34 fizzie: you "do" your tea? That's making me imagine some sort of drug pusher handing you some Earl Gr[ea]y. 20:48:41 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 20:48:44 fizzie: I also drink most of my tea at work, but not because of that. Both at work and at home I make tea by boiling water in a small electric kettle, pouring half a liter in a cup, and adding a teabag for coloring the water. 20:48:55 It's exactly the same procedure at home or at work. 20:49:03 Same sorts of teabags too. 20:49:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:50:22 shachaf: That's weird. The grocery stores (at least in Finland) had loose-leaf Clipper brand tea. I don't know why their website is so bag-only. 20:51:45 \oren\: Has neoletters added ⸘ yet? 20:51:57 <\oren\> ys 20:52:11 <\oren\> and it's the right way around too 20:52:14 `? neoletters 20:52:15 neoletters? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:52:18 `? oren's font 20:52:19 ​\oren\'s font is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 20:52:51 \oren\: Congratulations, BTW, my school has your site blocked 20:53:01 For "Prohibited advertisements content" 20:53:37 perhaps: ln -s "wisdom/oren's font" wisdom/neoletters 20:53:50 (Warning. I have no idea how HackEgo would react to this. That's what makes it so fun!) 20:53:51 <\oren\> My site doesn't have any ads at all... maybe that's what's prohibited 20:53:57 \oren\: Weird 20:54:00 I'll submit an appeal 20:54:05 Aha, I understand! 20:54:09 They want ads on the site 20:54:13 so they can replace them with their own ads! 20:54:35 `slashlearn oren's font/\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 20:54:38 Relearned «oren's font» 20:55:59 gamemanj: Nope xD 20:56:12 Even if there WERE ads, everyone has adblock nowadays 20:56:18 at least it's greppable now 20:59:14 <\oren\> Ærl Græy Tæ 20:59:49 <\oren\> Rl grA tE 21:00:26 "Real great"? 21:00:37 Subliminal messaging! 21:00:38 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 21:00:43 Of course! 21:00:47 wob_jonas: itym græp hth 21:00:47 How did I not see this? 21:01:21 |G|lobally search |Ræ|gular |E|xpression and |P|rint 21:01:35 hpp: grapes? nah, I prefer raspberries, thanks. 21:01:46 wob_jonas: I prefer my raspberries in a pie, rather than raw. 21:01:49 But that's just me. 21:02:13 This is basic rægexes. 21:02:16 And... leaving 21:02:26 læving? 21:06:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:14:53 -!- augur has joined. 21:36:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:36:44 why koala? 21:37:02 fungot, koalahead 21:37:02 wob_jonas: regardless of whether or not a file in big-5 encoding. how would you like 21:37:18 sure 21:46:08 Well, this should be ゚interesting. 21:47:32 fungot: a fair or a fare? 21:47:32 wob_jonas: stop twisting words again. 21:47:41 snort 21:47:49 fnord? 21:47:52 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 21:48:10 I wonder why so many people are unaffiliated? 21:50:03 <\oren\> unaffiliated with what? 21:50:40 I don't know! 21:50:50 With everything, I presume. 21:51:24 gamemanj, I am legally required to be non-partisanb 21:51:34 I'm guessing they're actually aliens from another planet, in disguise as humans. Or time travellers. Or alien time travellers. They seem kind, so that's good. 21:55:37 gamemanj: no way. surely time travellers would know all our history and are familiar with all the terrible consequences the Other Candidate's term as president has brought and are able to view it from a perspective unbiased by the nasty mud-slinging of this campaign, so they won't remain unaffiliated but will support My Candidate fully. 21:58:31 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:58:31 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:03:13 right, "short-sighted", that's what that sentence needs 22:04:01 <\oren\> it's interesting that both candidates are now essentially saying the world will literally end if the other one winds 22:04:47 \oren\: well duh, people are always saying that 22:06:42 `? racoon 22:06:43 racoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:06:44 `? raccoon 22:06:45 raccoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:06:48 `? cocoon 22:06:48 cocoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:07:57 <\oren\> did they say that during the 2008 election? 22:08:19 <\oren\> I don't remeber them saying it over and over back then 22:10:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:11:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:14:34 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:14:55 `` ls wisdom/*coon* 22:14:57 wisdom/cocoonspirator \ wisdom/coonspirator \ wisdom/racoonspirator 22:15:14 `? racoonspirator 22:15:15 A racoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in fur 22:20:53 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:33:10 `? cocoonspirator 22:33:11 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 22:33:15 `? coonspirator 22:33:16 A coonspirator is caterpillar silk wrapped in collaborators. 22:36:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:38:06 `` ls wisdom/*err* 22:38:08 ls: cannot access wisdom/*err*: No such file or directory 22:38:14 `` ls wisdom/*e* 22:38:15 wisdom/6 random numbers \ wisdom/abstract nonsense \ wisdom/adpoted \ wisdom/adventure \ wisdom/algebraic chess notation \ wisdom/algebraic number theory \ wisdom/al gore \ wisdom/alice \ wisdom/alise \ wisdom/all the tropes \ wisdom/almond bread \ wisdom/america \ wisdom/amnesium \ wisdom/amortized \ wisdom/antediluvian \ wisdom/applicative functo 22:38:34 `` ls wisdom/*dire* 22:38:35 ls: cannot access wisdom/*dire*: No such file or directory 22:38:38 `` ls wisdom/*cat* 22:38:39 wisdom/applicative functor \ wisdom/bicategory \ wisdom/cat \ wisdom/catamorphism \ wisdom/categorical product \ wisdom/category \ wisdom/category-helpdesk \ wisdom/category theory \ wisdom/cat elimination \ wisdom/cat introduction \ wisdom/implication \ wisdom/monoidal category 22:38:53 `? cat 22:38:53 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 22:38:54 `learn Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. 22:38:56 Learned 'cocoon': Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. 22:39:16 `? cat elimination 22:39:16 cat elimination is the process of replacing a one-argument `cat` command with the shell operator < 22:39:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:40:49 The thing is, "cat X | foo | bar | baz" has a much more natural ordering of things than "foo < X | bar | baz". 22:41:44 maybe we need an optimizing shell 22:42:02 And "< X foo | bar | baz" just looks silly. 22:42:05 though of course it's almost impossible, because the difference is observable in too many ways 22:42:37 fizzie: of course it does. you should write it without the space after the angle bracket, like I don't like the file name touching the operator. 22:45:39 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:49:10 <\oren\> if cat is a builtin, then isn't it identical? 22:49:37 cat isn't a builtin in most shells, and the pipe is still there 22:49:52 you still fork but don't exec 22:49:54 \oren\: no. the program can seek the redirected file, or fstat or flock even do more evil things on it, but it gets just a pipe from cat 22:50:33 \oren\: it's not really the cat that matters, but the connection 22:51:13 plus also, once we're at shell level, we don't have the beautiful definition of the C standard as-if rule about what is "identical" enough. someone could kill the cat, or ptrace it or anything. 22:51:23 that's why you can't make an optimizing shell really 22:51:29 not in any meaningful way 22:51:46 The closest you can do is a shell which implements as much as possible as builtins. 22:52:00 (this *is* actually allowed by the spec, but not a huge gain.) 22:52:25 ==> busybox 22:53:04 Does the busybox shell actually run busybox commands builtin-like? 22:53:09 yes 22:53:17 it doesn't fork 22:53:24 Fancy. 22:53:51 So if you kill it while it's pretending to be a gzip, you don't go back to the shell? 22:54:02 that's correct 22:54:37 <\oren\> i assume that ^C is handled specially in that case though 22:54:49 yeah just regular signal handlers 22:55:00 <\oren\> so you'd need another shell to kill it with 22:55:01 but with sigkill of course there's not much you can do 22:55:12 That doesn't seem to happen on my busybox, at least for 'sleep'. 22:55:47 let me find which apps are nofork 22:56:07 Maybe it's presumably-short-running ones. 22:56:27 Would make sense, since those would save the most. 22:56:28 yeah 22:57:20 seq false whoami echo logname sync fsync touch true truncate yes basename dirname printenv pwd cat 22:58:59 rmdir mkdir rm usleep 23:09:54 <\oren\> could you make a program that compiles shell scripts into programs that fork, dup2, and exec? 23:10:05 yeah it's called a shell 23:10:22 <\oren\> izabera: a shell is an interpreter 23:10:24 Isn't the shell interpretive? 23:10:45 so far i know no shell that compiles stuff 23:11:13 but why is that useful? 23:11:32 you're only speeding up the interpretation part 23:12:16 <\oren\> and obfuscating the code at the same time 23:13:52 you can build a pessimized shell though, mind you 23:13:53 the problem with this is that it works great with very simple shells but posix shells do a shitload of other stuff that's totally not trivial to translate 23:14:19 like http://blog.schmorp.de/2015-06-08-emulating-linux-mips-in-perl-1.html 23:14:39 <\oren\> and maybe this shell would have options to optimize things in unexpected ways 23:16:07 <\oren\> e.g. shell variables that are treated as numbers can be stored as numbers until such time as a string operation is performed upon them 23:16:28 ksh does that 23:16:39 well it does that if you declare them as numeric variables 23:16:44 it stores them in doubles 23:16:45 you know what they say about premature optimization 23:16:53 NOT DOUBLES! 23:16:59 SHELL NUMBERS ARE int64 23:17:03 just read the manual 23:17:09 wrong 23:17:27 I mean, the ones in bash are sorry 23:17:31 you know what they say about floating point values 23:17:35 double, double, toil and trouble 23:18:11 what is this? 23:18:21 it's a song in a harry potter movie 23:18:22 fungot, could you lend me a newt's eye for the cocooncotion? 23:18:22 wob_jonas: let's not and say we did! :-p cool. thanks.) since you bothered to type that 23:18:30 but what was it before being sang in hp? 23:18:48 izabera: some lame Shakespeare stuff I think 23:18:51 <\oren\> it was a line from Macbeth 23:18:55 ooh 23:19:09 <\oren\> I hate shakespeare 23:19:22 Bubble, bobble. 23:19:31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzrgXFeX_o 23:19:41 <\oren\> well, more I hate the people who don't translate shakespeare 23:19:42 beeble 23:19:52 `? beeble 23:19:53 beeble? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:20:05 "I should have married a crueler woman." 23:20:07 Ait was in the disk 2 of the dvd 23:20:10 s/A// 23:20:37 <\oren\> shakespeare is not written in modern english, therefore they should translate it into modern english before having kids read it 23:20:41 Eye of newt, and toe of frog, / Wool of bat, and pooch of dog 23:21:17 \oren\, striiiiiictly speaking, it is Modern English 23:21:30 Although you are well within your rights to argue I'm completely missing the point 23:21:40 <\oren\> in what possible sense? 23:21:59 \oren\: Some people defined some words and now everyone thinks their definitions are better than yours. 23:22:02 hth 23:22:06 <\oren\> many words used by shakespeare are completely unknown to modern readers 23:22:20 <\oren\> or widely misunderstood 23:23:09 I personally find Shakespeare relatively easy to read 23:23:33 \oren\: well duh. he's made up a lot of new words. obviously not all would catch on. he still has quite a lot of success with many of them. 23:23:33 <\oren\> e.g. troth, wherefore, fair, whence 23:23:47 It uses slang that is unfamiliar, but so does a lot of stuff coming out of the US 23:24:11 So does a lot of stuff coming from 300 miles away in my home country's capital 23:24:18 "whence" is a good word. 23:25:00 Wherefore dost thou sayest such, shachaf? 23:25:16 Taneb: "dost thou sayest"? 23:25:38 <\oren\> shachaf: yes, but most modern people would understand it as meaning "when" but shakespeare meant "where" 23:25:41 "do you say", with singular you, attempting to emulate early modern english 23:25:58 \oren\, ...people understand it as meaning when? 23:26:03 Taneb: It reads more like "does he says" to me. 23:26:05 <\oren\> yes 23:26:07 \oren\: what? we know what a "fair" is. it's either a convention where they're not trying to bother with a fixed schedule of presentations in large rooms because they know the point of a convention is people going around the stands in an unscheduled manner and meeting each other, or an adjective for elves. 23:26:25 \oren\: "whence" doesn't mean "where" 23:26:30 \oren\: It means "from where" 23:26:31 shachaf, well, clearly, you don't speak early modern english as well as I do 23:26:41 \oren\, I've never heard of anyone thinking it means "when" before 23:26:45 <\oren\> wob_jonas: yes, and shakespeare uses fair to mean "beautiful" 23:26:49 Taneb: Are you sure you're right about this? 23:26:56 \oren\, *I* use fair to mean beautiful 23:27:05 shachaf, no hth 23:27:06 \oren\: "whence" means "from where", "hence" means "from here", "thence" means "from there" 23:27:07 <\oren\> Taneb: To a modern ear, wherefore means where, and whence means when 23:27:20 \oren\: "whither" means "to where", "hither" means "to here", "thither" means "to there" 23:27:26 \oren\, then I do not have a modern ear 23:27:37 <\oren\> wherefore art thou romeo = "where are you, romeo? I can't see you" 23:27:45 Wherefore being taken as where, I've heard of 23:27:50 Never whence being taken as when 23:27:54 And we know what a "whence" is too, it's the third argument of an lseek or fseek or similar function, and traditionally has the value of 0 for offset from start, 1 for offset from current position, 2 for offset from end of file, although these days some other values are possible. 23:28:06 wob_jonas makes a good point. 23:28:12 `? wob_jonas 23:28:13 wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks. 23:28:41 "fair" as beautiful, what's the point of that? we already have "pretty" and "handsome" to mean beautiful 23:28:44 shachaf: so this is wrong? "from whence you came you shall remain" 23:28:47 <\oren\> Taneb: "From whence he came" = "he's a time traveller returning to his home time period" 23:28:55 wob_jonas, fair is a different kind of beautiful 23:29:10 izabera: I've heard "from whence". I'm not sure whether it's "wrong", it might just be redundant or something? 23:29:18 \oren\, I've seriously never heard anyone use it like that, or think it could be used like that before 23:29:55 wob_jonas, Legolas and Arwen are fair but not pretty or handsome, to me 23:30:13 legolas aint pretty!? 23:30:22 no it's not! it's just partitioning the old fashioned chauvinist way: you say "beautiful" about women, "handsome" about men, "pretty" about children, and "fair" about elves, to enforce the notion that the roles of people in society should be determined by their gender and age and heritage. 23:30:31 they all mean the fucking same thing! 23:30:38 No they don't! 23:30:48 except, you know, when "fair" means a convention 23:31:14 I do associate them with different kinds of beauty, and there are definitely beautiful men and handsome women 23:31:50 <\oren\> "gainsay" most people today would interpret as "say again" but shakespeare meant "contradict, deny" 23:32:15 Taneb: I think the Thing from Addams Family is quite handsome. 23:32:31 shachaf, good for you 23:32:40 Taneb: what's that supposed to mean 23:32:49 is that some kind of insult 23:32:58 well, either it's clear to me that they're the same because I haven't grown up as an English speaker and so my head isn't full about ideas about which social classes of people should be beautiful in which ways, or I just don't understand the small difference between those worse because I've not grown up as an English speaker and I'm just imagining 23:32:58 those words the same. 23:33:06 shachaf, it means I disagree but recognize it's a valid opinion, and also I don't really care 23:33:27 It's not really an opinion. 23:33:29 It's more of a pun. 23:33:43 I didn't know you could disagree with puns. 23:33:43 Oh! I was thinking of Cousin Itt 23:33:48 I guess you can find them disagreeable. 23:33:54 My apologies 23:34:14 It is a good pun 23:34:22 But since English has so many redundant synonyms, I'm always guessing the former by default. 23:34:56 wob_jonas, a lot of English synonyms have different connotations. 23:35:12 cocoonnotations? 23:35:14 There are very few "true synonyms" 23:35:16 According to this book, beautiful men are rare: http://www.rulit.me/books/the-gone-away-world-read-423517-65.html 23:35:29 shachaf, I'd say Chris Hemsworth is one 23:35:41 "Ben was the rarest of things, a genuinely beautiful man. Good-looking men are commonplace, and beautiful woman are not rare. Male beauty, capable of overcoming the stigma attached to it and undeniable, is one in many hundreds of thousands." 23:35:45 is that true? 23:35:47 who knows 23:36:10 I once saw a really beautiful man at university but I think he graduated before I got the chance to tell him so 23:36:23 Why would you tell someone so? 23:36:50 Cousin Itt and the Thing are really quite distinct. 23:36:56 <\oren\> "dateless" most people would think meant "unable to go to prom" but actually means "eternal" 23:36:56 shachaf: It's p. true: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=beautiful+man%2Cbeautiful+woman 23:36:59 Because it is more likely to make him happy than to make him sad 23:37:23 If you tell someone they're beautiful, it might make them happier. 23:37:31 But is it at the cost of making all people who aren't beautiful sadder? 23:37:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:37:46 By attaching too much value to beauty of people? 23:37:49 Most people who aren't beautiful wouldn't have heard me say he's beautiful 23:38:18 Nonetheless. 23:38:48 <\oren\> "diaper" meant "towel" to shakespeare 23:38:49 copumpkin is going to read a story this weekend -- I believe it's the very last one in the book -- which is about lookism. 23:39:21 `? vampire 23:39:22 Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf. 23:39:23 <\oren\> "imperious" meant "majestic" to shakespeare 23:39:35 ...imperious does mean majestic, doesn't it 23:39:42 Like an emperor 23:39:48 What else does it mean? 23:39:49 \oren\: "fantastic" meant "unrealistic" rather than "excellent" to Heinlein. 23:39:55 \oren\: And that was in the 1950s or something. 23:40:17 so what 23:40:30 <\oren\> shachaf: so new editions should translate the words 23:40:46 But good translations are hard. 23:40:50 \oren\, it's just a different dialect, should American books be translated in British publication? 23:40:53 <\oren\> not leave them the same and append ever increasing numbers of footnotes 23:40:54 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:58 \oren\: well duh, disposable diapers didn't exist back then. They were a rarity (in Eastern Europe) even when I was a baby, so I grown up with textile diapers on my ass and my parents had to wash them. How could Shakespeare had known? 23:41:05 Taneb: British books are translated in American publications, aren't they? 23:41:16 shachaf, I don't know, I've never bought a book in the US 23:41:22 "imperious" => is that even a word? 23:41:39 <\oren\> The first book of harry potter was "the sorceror's stone" in the USA 23:42:03 <\oren\> wob_jonas: yes and it means something like "overbearing" to a modern person 23:42:26 I'm going to bed now 23:42:29 Goodnight! 23:42:44 copumpkin: what do you think of calliagnosia twh 23:42:52 wob_jonas: It's a misspelling of impervious hth 23:43:13 \oren\: I see. I mean, there's an M:tG card with "Imperious" in its name, but there are M:tG cards with all sorts of crazy rare English words, so that doesn't mean much 23:45:29 fizzie: Apparently BigQuery doesn't support proto data? #scow 23:47:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:50:09 <\oren\> "jaded" meant "contemptible" to Shakespeare 23:50:29 "contemptible" isn't even a word, is it? 23:50:42 shachaf: How can that even be a thing. 23:51:28 shachaf: I'm sure it'll all turn into protos somewhere deep in the machine. 23:51:33 Oh, I'm sure. 23:51:48 Probably even somewhere shallow in the machine. 23:51:56 Everything turns into protos. 23:52:10 shachaf: Have you seen that "two kinds of jobs" meme-image? 23:52:12 But that doesn't help you if all you can upload is CSV data. 23:52:23 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it is. it means "worthy of being hated" 23:52:27 fizzie: I'm not sure... 23:53:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:53:25 shachaf: I'd share it but I'm sure it's company confidential. 23:53:57 Oh thank god 23:54:01 I just found my missing cat 23:54:26 All images generated by the meme-image-generator-machine are confidential. 23:54:34 <\oren\> "vulgar" meant "of the people" in Shakespeare's time 23:54:53 Yes. This one's from 2012, so I presume you might have seen it, though I doubt it's super-popular. 23:55:44 I've probably seen it. 23:55:50 It sounds vaguely familiar. 23:56:28 fizzie: What format would you use to store a log file containing protos? 23:57:40 Getting back to BigQuery, there seems to be something called Avro import (Apache thing with JSON-based schemas and proto-like binary wire format), and also something something Cloud Datastore. Though you're right -- no protos. 23:58:20 fizzie: The point of this would be queries on nested/heterogeneous data. 23:59:25 I don't know what's good for that, if anything. 23:59:43 Other than Dremel? 2016-09-10: 00:00:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:01:50 Outside of Dremel, I think it's all just JSON all the way down. 00:03:02 JSON is scow. 00:04:20 JSON with one line per object, and then you just parse it over and over and over again when looking for something. 00:04:31 fizzie: What if you semi-index it? 00:04:39 Did you see that paper? 00:04:52 http://www.di.unipi.it/~ottavian/files/semi_index_cikm.pdf 00:04:55 Probably not. 00:05:39 Anyway the point is that I want more structure than JSON has. 00:06:09 shachaf: talk to zzo38 about that then 00:06:39 Why? 00:06:56 One kind of thing with more structure is to use RDF. 00:07:03 \ is upper-case | in IRC. <-- if those old charsets had stayed on, i might have been \rjan 00:07:04 Another thing is protobuf. 00:07:14 Regarding the paper, sounds clever but why wouldn't you just ColumnIO(/Capacitor). 00:07:14 oerjan: it's not too late hth 00:07:16 If you are doing text markup though, then XML might work. 00:07:50 @messages- 00:07:51 fizzie said 14h 28m 20s ago: I didn't realize filter 9 effectively disables anonymous editing; turning it off "properly" SGTM. 00:07:59 fizzie: If you can pre-parse things and put them in your own format, of course something human-readable like JSON isn't going to be as good. 00:08:12 shachaf: ARGH 00:08:26 oerjan: What? 00:08:30 * oerjan swats shachaf for making a fake @ask -----### 00:08:33 I didn't want to spam the channel. 00:09:12 shachaf: i use to count the number of lambdabot messages compared to what's in the log to see if it's safe to use @-loud hth 00:09:24 RDF is a easily readable/writable format too. Let's see what you need to make? In some cases, a binary format will work better 00:09:25 oerjan: Oh, I see. 00:09:32 oerjan: I didn't realize that. v. clever 00:09:34 And, what programming language you are using. 00:09:43 zzo38: I like proto. 00:09:50 fizzie: What do you think of Cap'n Proto? 00:09:59 fungot, is RDF a easily readable/writable format too? Let's see what you need to make? In some cases, a binary format will work better 00:10:08 fortunately fizzie's message doesn't look overly confidential :) 00:10:18 Hm... 00:10:24 Such as, JavaScript will have JSON built-in and I wrote a library to read/write RDF too. 00:10:26 I'm trying to figure out if there's a gambit for something I'm looking for 00:10:53 One of our cats escaped sometime yesterday, and today after coming home from school I decided to look around and found him in one of the neighbor's yards 00:11:27 oerjan: fizzie's message was in the channel too. 00:11:38 He couldn't have gotten in over the fence (he's old, a bit fat, and was declawed by the previous owners; he would have a hard time climbing the fence) 00:11:55 oerjan: Now I see what happened. You missed fizzie's message in the log, so the 1 lambdabot reported matched the 1 you saw. 00:12:04 And therefore it tricked you into revealing a message you thought was secret. 00:12:06 He couldn't have jumped it either, because I don't think I've ever seen him jump nearly high enough (and even if he could, he'd be way too scared) 00:12:13 hpp: went through a hole through the fence? isn't that what cats normally do? 00:12:14 I thought you were just confused by 1<2 00:12:17 @ask oerjan was that pun truly an accident? twh <-- which pun twh 00:12:22 wob_jonas: That was my next possibility 00:12:36 He could've climbed in other, but I'm pretty sure he was stuck in their yard 00:12:44 oerjan: "insidious" hth 00:12:49 shachaf: I think when I was reading about it, all the arguments made sense, more or less, but something in the style of the writing made me feel bad on behalf of protobufs. I mean the format itself. 00:12:53 cats can climb through holes you'd think are impossible to climb through. they have like epic skills. 00:13:08 fizzie: Well, the author of capnproto is the author of proto2. 00:13:12 wob_jonas: Yeah, but this looked thin even for a cat 00:13:57 Now, usually I'd just think he HAD managed to squeeze in and just couldn't get out for some reason (which seems unlikely) 00:14:10 hpp: another hole you didn't notice then? 00:14:28 wob_jonas: I could look for another hole, but for now let's assume this is the only hole 00:14:43 (also, their fence has only two sides, as this is a neighborhood of duplexes) 00:14:51 shachaf: I know, that's why I didn't feel bad for the author, just poor old proto2 itself. It's pretty irrational, but that's what soured me on the whole thing. Well, that and the name. 00:14:52 shachaf: itym "fiendish" 00:14:59 (And the yards are only about 5 metres on edge) 00:15:00 oh wait 00:15:12 shachaf: yes, "insidious" was really an accident. 00:15:16 wob_jonas: But the reason I'm suspicious is that we've had trouble with these particular neighbors before 00:15:23 afa my conscious mind is concerned, anyway. 00:15:32 oerjan: fiendish 00:16:04 One day last year when one of our other cats (much younger, much more cat-like) got out, they came over to complain about it 00:16:12 hpp: could someone have opened the gate of your yard? 00:16:22 wob_jonas: No, we think we know how he got out 00:16:36 fizzie: quick question: why is there no node.js & npm on hackego? :P 00:16:36 wob_jonas: I'm wondering about why he was there 00:16:51 Because apparently she was showing up in their yard and they were annoyed because they were trying to attract birds 00:16:59 cats go where they please 00:17:16 wob_jonas: I don't think he wanted to be there, because he was starving when I found him 00:17:39 Moonythedwarf: That's a Gregor question, really. 00:17:42 ouch 00:17:47 hppavilion[1]: you should be happy. one of my mom's friends' cat sneaked into a cellar room somewhere and they didn't find it until it had starved to death hth 00:17:49 So one of them (a woman) came over to complain about it (she apparently did not understand that pumpkin would not stay inside) 00:17:57 oerjan: Now I'm sad 00:18:11 And she pretty much walked directly into out house 00:18:21 Like, we answered the door and she just stepped inside to start complaining 00:19:29 (Note for foreigners who may or may not have the same customs (I don't know if this varies): In the US, someone answering the door is not an invitation to enter. It's EXTREMELY rude, and a little bit aggressive, to walk in without an explicit invitation) 00:19:48 ouch 00:19:59 And I found him in their yard today, seemingly trapped 00:20:50 One of our neighbors (probably the same one) brought the youngcat (Pumpkin) to the pound today 00:21:13 hpp: my brother otld me stories about their cat and the evil neighbor, but not quite the same story. 00:21:32 shachaf: oh. i didn't really "miss" the message, but since i'd already reached the count i didn't keep searching for more. 00:21:34 And my best guess is that Pete went to their house when he realized he was ready to come home thinking it was ours (they're 2 doors down, so the same side of the duplex) and started complaining 00:21:36 evil neighbors hating your cat must be a trope or something 00:21:45 wob_jonas: It's a thing, definitely 00:22:11 And they had already dealt with a cat today, so they just grabbed him and put him in their back yard until they could take him to the pound too 00:24:43 (I believe when I first saw him, he was in front of their back door wanting to get in- their back door is different from ours, so he probably didn't think it was us, and he would've just left if he could- but he was complaining to try to get inside, as if he'd already been in there) 00:25:25 I knocked on their door to ask if I could enter their back yard, but no one seemed to be home, so I eventually just opened their gate on my own, got him out as quickly as possible (it took longer than expected because he went and hid so I had to get food), and left 00:26:00 So if they did trap him, they don't know that I showed up and retrieved him, and they may not know he's gone 00:26:30 If he was just there and they had nothing to do with it, they won't know he was there at all (or they'd have just shooed him away) 00:26:51 And I'm wondering if there's some sort of gambit (like a Batman Gambit or a Xanatos Gambit) that we could use to see which it is based on what knowledge they have 00:27:44 heh 00:27:53 Moonythedwarf: That's a Gregor question, really. <-- i thought there _was_ node.js somewhere and a program that used it. although perhaps not in the usual path. of course npm won't work assuming that needs network. 00:28:07 wob_jonas: Any ideas? 00:28:11 Mmmaybe. 00:28:42 There is a js interpreter at least, I think. 00:29:15 Clearly npm won't work but I think probably Node.js should be added on HackEgo 00:29:29 My best idea is to pretend we haven't found him yet and ask if we can check their yard 00:29:32 (But, omit npm) 00:29:33 hppavilion[1]: btw in norway most cats roam freely, so someone like your neighbor would probably be laughed at. 00:29:42 oerjan: Yeah 00:29:53 You should add version 5 or 6 00:30:17 `` rhino Rhino 1.7 release 3 2012 02 13 \ js> 00:31:08 PRogram i have (clone of mr polybot's calculator for starts) _requires_ node to run 00:31:24 And if they say no, the most likely case is they think he's there and they don't want us to know we trapped him 00:31:50 But if they know he's gone, they have nothing to lose 00:32:35 Alternatively, we could say we just saw him back there, but then they might say yes even if they DO know he's there so that we don't think they're suspicious 00:32:42 oerjan: Do you know of any sort of gambit that'd work here? 00:33:01 hpp: sorry, I'm very bad at social engineering, so I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about this. maybe try one of the other nerds here. 00:33:08 Ah, yes 00:35:21 Who here was the expert on differential forms? 00:35:23 oerjan? 00:36:31 hppavilion[1]> (Note for foreigners who may or may not have the same customs (I don't know if this varies): <-- certainly rude in norway unless you know someone very well 00:36:34 i can install the other requirements (packages) via the power of 00:36:54 oerjan: Figured, seems like one of the more universal customs 00:39:50 OK, who here CAN do some social engineering? 00:40:09 Moonythedwarf: what? 00:42:16 And I'm wondering if there's some sort of gambit (like a Batman Gambit or a Xanatos Gambit) that we could use to see which it is based on what knowledge they have <-- hah, i was tempted to try that the other day in this channel. but i decided to let it go. you know who you are, unless it was the other one hth 00:43:07 hpp: although I was quite proud today of a completely accidental piece of social engineering I've done that might or might not have even worked 00:43:14 not really engineering either 00:43:19 ...wookipedia has...http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Color 00:44:15 I commented on the blog of one geek person to point at the blog of another geek person with very similar interests, and now the first one seems to read the second one's blog, and backwards, which is a good thing, right? 00:45:15 <_46bit> a very good thing 00:45:18 <_46bit> you're a matchmaker 00:45:49 <_46bit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPa0TiCuvR4 00:46:06 hppavilion[1]: seems reasonable to me 00:48:56 oerjan? <-- certainly not. i might be able to remember the basics if i try hard, which i don't feel like. 00:52:58 like, you do that product of formal variables divided out by antisymmetry thing 00:53:16 so x ^ x = 0 and x ^ y = - (y ^ x) 00:53:32 i suppose you'd usually put dx or dy 00:53:46 but these can be general vector space elements 00:53:56 `? differential forms 00:53:57 differential forms? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:54:03 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:54:10 `? tanebventions: math 00:54:11 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 00:54:21 Taneb didn't invent differential forms? 00:54:52 `?differential forms 00:54:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?differential: not found 00:54:57 `? differential forms 00:54:58 differential forms? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:55:02 nope 00:55:05 He invented D-modules. 00:55:11 ah 00:55:26 if you have a basis { e_i } for a vector space, then the corresponding n-forms have basis elements like e_i_1 ^ e_i_2 ^ ... ^ e_i_n where i is increasing 00:55:53 *strictly increasing 00:55:56 and then you do antisymmetric tensor products 00:56:05 ah yes, that's what you mean by the ^ 00:56:08 oerjan: So unordered sets of basis elements? 00:56:09 I think it should be spelled /\ though 00:56:30 wob_jonas: ok, i'm going by vague memory here 00:56:43 oerjan: you're doing a good job for not feeling like remembering the basics tdh 00:56:50 shachaf: no, not just unordered sets. antisymmetric tensor products 00:57:01 shachaf: no, they're ordered, but you only do the increasing ones because the others are equivalent to the increasing ones times a sign by antisymmetry 00:57:18 or you could do only decreasing, i guess. 00:57:35 Is that not equivalent? 00:58:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:58:48 shachaf: well i guess. you're supposed to extend ^ to arbitrary vectors though 00:59:11 I meant that those are the basis elements, which you can then define ^ in terms of. 00:59:12 which requires keeping track of sign of the permutations 00:59:15 But maybe that doesn't simplify anything. 00:59:50 shachaf: well i guess it might. 01:00:40 Anyway I thought dx was usually vector in the cotangent space or something like that? 01:00:43 then you would define e_i_1 ^ e_i_2 ^ e_i_3 ... more generally as {i_1, ..., i_n} times the sign of the permutation 01:01:15 shachaf: well sure, after you've defined this, you apply it to cotangent bundles or what it was 01:01:35 shachaf: yes, of which the e are a basis of 01:02:43 i suppose you don't have to go via basis, but can just do it abstractly as a quotient, but the basis helps with calculations? 01:03:45 oerjan: the basis gives the definition, but then of course you have to prove this stuff is consistent as in if you change the basis you can extend the change of basis to the antisymmetric tensor product space such that it keeps the antisymmetric tensor product operation. 01:04:24 which is important, because you need change of basis if you can't give a single basis everywhere on the manifold 01:05:09 oerjan: you're doing a good job for not feeling like remembering the basics tdh <-- i started feeling a little better hth 01:05:40 And then you need to define the antisymmetric differential operator (denoted by a mirrored six) which takes (a suitably smooth functions from the manifold to one of these spaces) to (a suitably smooth function from the manifold to the next one of these spaces), 01:05:56 and the big surprise is that mirrored six composited to mirrored six turns out to be zero! 01:06:01 Also, there's some stuff with duals. 01:06:07 I dunno what I'm talking about either. 01:06:15 wob_jonas: Mirrored six? Isn't this one usually just written as d? 01:06:18 But I think there are nerds on the internet who do this. 01:06:25 shachaf: yeah, it's a d, I'm just stupid 01:06:56 wob_jonas: i suppose the antisymmetric tensor product is the universal object through which you can factor antisymmetric linear functions. which might be more to shachaf's liking. 01:07:21 oerjan: uh, that sounds nice, I've no idea what it means 01:07:33 oh 01:07:43 um, dunno 01:09:13 it means that if you have U and V, then U /\ V is a vector space such that for any W, and any antisymmetric bilinear function f : (U, V) -> W, there is a unique g : U /\ V -> W such that f = g o (/\) 01:09:23 or something very close to that. 01:09:44 (if you dropped the antisymmetric, you'd get the usual tensor product this way) 01:10:59 now, the next step is to note that the basis definition fulfils this, after which you can essentially throw it away and use the universal property from there on. 01:11:14 oh hm 01:11:25 you cannot use different U and V there 01:11:47 um 01:11:49 which means, i guess, you need to consider all U /\ U /\ ... /\ U simultaneously 01:12:13 wob_jonas: antisymmetry makes no sense if you're not starting with identical vector spaces 01:12:21 i just realized that 01:12:23 that sounds true but I don't really understand what the point of that is. that doesn't sound like factoring, it just sounds like extending, 01:12:41 where you define the function g such that f gives its value on the basis elements of the tensor-product space 01:12:50 wob_jonas: well it's a category theoretical universal property, they all look like that. 01:13:01 heh 01:13:15 oerjan: but how does the antisymmetric derivative and the duality come into all this? 01:13:31 wob_jonas: the thing is, once you have done this, the fact that it's all invariant under basis changes becomes completely trivial 01:13:52 what? why? 01:14:26 I mean, the part where what becomes invariant? 01:14:35 because universal objects defined by the same universal property are automatically isomorphic. 01:15:22 what? 01:15:23 wob_jonas: well the universal property gives you a definition of /\ which does not speak about the basis of the original spaces 01:15:36 hmm 01:16:41 it's true that it doesn't speak about the basis of U^n, but does it completely determine the U/\.../\U space? 01:19:16 yes, up to isomorphism. 01:19:36 consider if you had two objects fulfilling this. 01:20:10 T1 and T2, with corresponding embeddings /\_1 and /\_2 01:20:24 ok, I'm looking what crazy category theory argument you're going to pull on me 01:20:51 universal properties are tg 01:21:29 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 01:22:07 then note that f (v1, ..., vn) = v1 /\_2 v2 /\_ ... /\_ vn is an antisymmetric multilinear function, so by the universal property of T1, you have g : T1 -> T2 such that f = g o (... /\_1 ... /\_1 ...) (i hope you can guess what the notation means) 01:22:29 er missed some 2's up there 01:23:01 oh of course the property should also say that g is linear 01:23:20 sure, you need linearity everywhere 01:23:34 and the other way you get g' : T2 -> T1, and it's easy to show g and g' are inverses. 01:23:46 thus T1 and T2 are isomorphic. 01:24:19 yeah, something like that probably works 01:24:23 typical category theory stuff 01:24:25 this is just about how these arguments always go. 01:24:34 yeah 01:25:16 don't take this in a bad way, I also do such abstract arguments sometimes, I just also like the humor in how we do them instead of the more easy to understand concrete stuff it translates to 01:25:44 It's maybe only hard to understand because you made him spell it out. 01:25:53 Otherwise you can just say that it's a universal property. 01:26:02 Or that it's initial in some category or something. 01:26:14 that just makes it worse! 01:26:32 The trouble is describing the category that you care about, but you need to do that anyway, except you normally do it implicitly. 01:27:12 wob_jonas: of course half the point is that once you have seen one case of this, you don't really have to relearn it completely for the next case 01:27:27 sure! 01:27:38 so it's a one time cost, after which you can use universal properties everywhere 01:27:54 universal properties are the best 01:28:32 they're p. good 01:28:36 that's how all this abstract maths stuff works. you prove some crazy general theorem and then hope you can use it more than once 01:28:47 oerjan: well, they have to be the best 01:28:51 that's what universality is hth 01:28:52 the pgraph minors theorem is stupid 01:28:56 *graph 01:29:03 pooch graph 01:29:04 shachaf: well in theory they could also be the worst 01:29:13 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 01:29:16 itym cobest hth 01:29:22 COKAY 01:29:34 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:34:52 shachaf: ok, so was there something more specific about differential forms you wanted to know? I presume you didn't just want to find out why the wedge tensor product is well-defined. 01:35:07 Well, that was pretty good. 01:35:21 I got a book about smooth manifolds so I think maybe I'll read that. 01:35:30 yeah, but I still don't know what's up with the d operator and the duals 01:36:39 I mean, I know once you do the d o d = 0 theorem generally, you'll get about five of those basic integral theorems on R**2 and R**3 that have fancy individual names, like the Green's theorem and stuff. 01:36:56 But still. 01:37:08 Well, Stokes' theorem is obviously the best one. 01:37:54 green's theorem is like warm-up. 01:38:06 And I think one of the goals for working with differentiable functions on manifolds is to be able to define invariants of manifolds, as in topological invariants or differentiable invariants, 01:38:24 which you can use that two manifolds are not isomorphic in some way, 01:38:33 Is Stokes' theorem an adjunction? 01:38:49 and eventually prove rigorously that a donut isn't a sphere. 01:39:55 Not even up to homotopically equivalence. 01:40:06 Which is kind of nice to know, and pretty hard to prove otherwise I think. 01:40:19 wob_jonas: that's not too hard since they have different fundamental groups. 01:41:34 i'm not sure how much differentiable stuff helps with proving topological invariants, i didn't learn it that way. 01:42:59 wob_jonas: now, proving that R^m is not R^n for m/=n is a bit harder. 01:44:43 can you distinguish wisdom entries by their fundamental grep? 01:45:09 yes hth 01:46:58 -!- lambda-11235 has left ("Bye"). 01:47:01 Also, I think physicists use this differentiable forms on manifolds stuff too, for some physical reasons. Maybe they want basis-invariant physical laws because they find them nicer or something. 01:51:36 [wiki] [[User talk:Malbranche]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49700 * Oerjan * (+158) Thanks! 01:52:53 [wiki] [[User talk:Malbranche]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49701&oldid=49700 * Oerjan * (+23) Um there was more 01:54:21 wob_jonas: general relativity has coordinate-invariance as one of its fundamental principles. 01:55:48 and iirc, in other cases, it helps determining which properties of your physical system are really fundamental rather than just an accident of description. 01:57:22 right 01:57:44 But what I don't get is, why is the d operator actually important? Does it have some sort of universal property? 01:57:49 (i recall reading terry tao used differential geometry when investigating variants of fluid dynamics recently. 01:57:52 ) 01:59:14 What is it that singles out the d operator (up to constant factor) from the other ((M->U^/\n)->(M->U^/\(n+1))) operators? 02:00:09 well general relativity doesn't use that d iirc, unless there's a reformulation which does 02:00:26 (it wasn't based on antisymmetry) 02:00:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 02:01:21 wob_jonas: it might be that dd = 0 determines it up to equivalence, or something... 02:01:40 also, dd= 0 is the property you want for things that define homologies. 02:02:03 (aka i don't really know the answer) 02:02:23 or wait hm 02:08:10 I thought so, but then someone in another channel said it was a Google thing. <-- sounds google to me 02:13:19 oerjan: dd = 0 can't determine it alone, you need some other property too 02:14:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:14:52 I mean, if dd=0 is the only thing you want, then why couldn't you just move U^/\n in place with some non-singular linear transform to itself but leave the U^/\k for all k!=n alone? 02:14:59 That would change d. 02:15:43 There has to be something that treats U^/\n as more than just a vector space. 02:15:47 presumably stokes' theorem is what makes it important. 02:17:16 That doesn't explain anything. 02:17:21 oh right, de Rham's theorem is what i was looking for. 02:17:30 Why is stokes theorem important, as in, why do you want a theorem about that particular differential form? 02:18:42 De Rham's theorem? Dunno, I feel there has to be some lower level explanation than that. 02:19:06 It has to involve /\ somewhere. 02:19:35 As in /\ on the vectors, not /\ on the vector spaces. 02:19:42 Oh well, I dunno, good night. 02:19:45 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:20:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 02:23:19 @tell wob_jonas i mean that stokes' theorem tells you how to get d from integration, essentially. 02:23:19 Consider it noted. 02:24:31 @tell wob_jonas oh, and of course i mean the _generalized_ stokes' theorem, that includes all the special cases like green's theorem. 02:24:31 Consider it noted. 02:25:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:34:15 what fraction of all english words would you guess are ALL CAPS 02:37:13 <\oren\> If he wins, the cold war is over, with victory to Russia <-- you make it sound like a good thing 02:41:48 helloerjan 02:42:23 hitopia 02:42:25 food -> 02:47:32 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:48:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:52:31 `? os 02:52:31 Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway. 03:07:00 fizzie: Hmm, Apache Drill might be able to do it. 03:07:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:07:37 drill drill baby 03:08:07 oops permute that 03:11:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:16:39 so i was testing things 03:16:51 and i made a http request to icanhazip.com with netcat 03:17:01 try it ^ 03:18:03 this is so cool, i'll write them 03:19:11 fizzie: Also I can convert to JSON and then query for many use cases. 03:19:16 fizzie: You recommend jq for that? 03:36:44 -!- bibibi has quit (Quit: bibibi). 03:37:17 @tell gamemanj I wonder why so many people are unaffiliated? <-- it's the only cloak you can get if you're not part of a group that's officially on freenode, me thinks 03:37:17 Consider it noted. 03:38:14 And you might prefer to get it even if you are affiliated. 03:38:41 yeah i rephrased myself in the middle of writing that because of that 03:41:58 izabera: That work good. 03:43:42 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:43:48 It supports headerless HTTP even; that is very good. 03:45:04 Now I can more easily check what is my global IP address, because I made a shell script of it. 03:45:23 (I have a router, so the computer's own IP address is not the same as the address accessible by internet.) 03:51:49 If you are using other format and then convert to JSON and then query for many use cases, is there a JavaScript module to do that with? If there is no such things on npm then I or you could add those program on 03:53:27 zzo38: And Chrome just deprecated HTTP/0.9, too... :) 03:54:29 too soon 03:55:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:55:58 pikhq: That shouldn't matter much since it is the client rather than the server. 03:56:41 True, it only really prevents Chrome from working with HTTP/0.9-only servers, while servers are still perfectly free to still support HTTP/0.9-only clients. 03:57:05 There's probably nearly zero HTTP/0.9-only servers. Or clients for that matter, but it's also lower impact to support for servers. 03:57:44 It is useful for the server to support it for use with clients that are not HTTP clients, mainly. 03:57:56 I'm often an HTTP/0.9 client. 03:59:03 And it's trivial to tell if a request is an HTTP/0.9 request, unlike for responses. 03:59:31 With responses, you start getting not-headers and it *might* be an HTTP/0.9 response, or it might be some server being busted. 03:59:43 With requests, you see the "GET" line doesn't have a verrsion number. 04:01:01 Yes. Making a HTTP client working with HTTP/0.9-only servers is probably a bit messy anyways, so a client should not need this functionality. It is a very useful functionality for servers to have though. (If a HTTP client does want to support HTTP/0.9-only servers too, it should probably be a user option.) 04:04:41 (If you don't need support for HTTP headers and stuff in your server, don't make a HTTP/0.9-only server; make a gopher server instead.) 04:05:04 No, no one uses Gopher. 04:05:21 make it a http 1.0 server maybe? 04:05:34 i heard that http 1.0 supports http 1.0 headers 04:10:34 Yes, you can support HTTP/0.9 and HTTP/1.0 in one server; implement both. You don't need a HTTP/0.9-only server though. 04:11:32 A simple HTTP/1.0 client isn't too bad either, for that matter. 04:11:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:12:45 Yes, and it is a good idea for any HTTP client to support that. However, the server probably ought to support HTTP/0.9 too. 04:13:08 Considering HTTP/1.0 requires it from servers, I agree. :) 04:13:51 pikhq | A simple HTTP/1.0 client isn't too bad either, for that matter. <- then why are they taking so long to develop chrome and firefox?!? 04:14:56 Because those do a *lot* more than HTTP/1.0. 04:15:11 oh. 04:17:20 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49702 * 12Me21 * (+1928) created the page lol XD 04:18:07 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49703&oldid=49702 * 12Me21 * (+10) added proper file extension 04:19:05 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49704&oldid=49703 * 12Me21 * (-143) removed influenced because LIES 04:20:17 <\oren\> (written in BASIC) 04:20:34 <\oren\> trololo 04:20:51 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49705&oldid=49704 * 12Me21 * (+0) replaced [] with the correct symbols 04:22:03 Hrm, I once again have an Internet-connected DOS VM. 04:22:09 If only I had *any* use for such a machine. 04:22:58 Are you in Colorado? 04:23:38 if e tries to edit the Main Page too, e gets a block. 04:26:04 admittedly featuring it _might_ have some positive effects, in theory. 04:30:17 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM 04:30:48 <\oren\> once again I have been wtching this over and over for half an hour 04:32:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:34:10 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 04:36:52 shachaf: Not quite yet. 04:39:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:39:47 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=astISOttCQ0 04:47:03 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3owVbVZNKs 04:47:06 @ask Taneb Never whence being taken as when <-- what about twice? 04:47:06 Consider it noted. 04:47:23 <\oren\> ok now I'm just linking crazy memes of the earyl 2000's 04:51:05 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6CDFn2i3I 04:52:34 If you make up a esoteric programming language called "Main Page", then what are you going to do about it? 04:53:01 (Or even, a book or movie or anything called "Main Page", and if a Wikipedia article should be needed.) 04:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FEtaiWdVg 05:03:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:07:54 Cousin Itt and the Thing are really quite distinct. <-- one is handsome, the other is hair 05:12:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 05:16:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:55:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- sewilton has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- staffehn has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- pelegreno has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- APic has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- hydraz has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- Caesura has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:31 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- xfix has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- MDude has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- JX7P has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- ocharles has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- prooftechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- Guest66666 has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:32 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 06:07:33 -!- Tiktalik has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:09 -!- pelegreno has joined. 06:23:09 -!- ocharles has joined. 06:25:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:25:04 -!- puckipedia has joined. 06:25:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:25:04 -!- sewilton has joined. 06:25:04 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:25:04 -!- aloril has joined. 06:25:04 -!- staffehn has joined. 06:43:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:58:39 If one were to write the time as 24:10, would Europe scorn one? 06:58:58 i would 06:59:03 not sure about eu 07:01:37 Base prime: Given the standard functions along with the additional pmor(x) and ples(x), which return the smallest prime number greater than x and the greatest prime number less than x (fallback on 0) respectively 07:02:31 bprime(n) := ples(n)+(n-ples(n))/(pmor(n)-ples(n)) 07:02:42 Wait 07:03:52 bprime(n) := primenum(ples(n))+(n-ples(n))/(pmor(n)-ples(n)), where primenum(p) takes a prime p and returns its index (primenum(2) = 1, primenum(3) = 2, primenum(5) = 3, 7 -> 4, 11 -> 5, 13 -> 6, etc.) 07:03:59 Yeah, that looks right 07:04:14 <\oren\> right now it's 26:04 07:04:35 <\oren\> at least, according to my computer 07:05:32 <\oren\> irssi is displaying 06:18, I have no idea why 07:07:00 <\oren\> how does a could server end up with such a time offset 07:07:08 <\oren\> s/could/cloud/ 07:13:10 in ISO 8601, 24:00:00 is accepted for the instant at the end of a day, equivalent to 00:00:00 of the next day; but otherwise the hour can't be above 23 07:13:42 I've heard though that tv schedulers use 06 to 30 or so 07:28:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:33:43 deltab: Why? 07:34:35 deltab: I reformed the calendar. To distinguish dates, they are prefixed with "NRC" and the separator is "~" 07:49:59 <\oren\> I reformed the year numbering. Year 0 is 1970. this year is 46 07:54:09 shachaf: I recommend jq for the sort of processing I normally do with ... | sed | awk | sed | grep | perl | ... sort of overly complicated shell "oneliners", if you do have JSON data. 07:55:50 @tell pikhq There was at least one router with a HTTP/0.9-only admin interface, it made them pause a little. Anyway, ISTR in the end they only deprecated HTTP/0.9 for nonstandard ports for now, since that's what the security concern was (mostly) about. 07:56:29 <\oren\> @mesages-loud 07:56:47 net split? 07:57:08 <\oren\> o no, whar iz lamdabot? 07:57:31 A long one. 07:59:06 Or, rather, my client says 28 people left due to a split, one came back, and then there's a dribble of some other people rejoining, but some are still gone. 07:59:10 fungot: At least you're still here. 07:59:11 fizzie: i didnt build it; its a package from ubuntu and php homes of irc-ignorant fnord worldwide. but i think i know where quack is located...... 07:59:38 Did you know a duck's quack doesn't echo? (That's not actually true.) 08:01:53 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3CKZqEiALE 08:02:50 <\oren\> since oerjan was complaining I decided to listen to a wider variety of music 08:06:02 <\oren\> hmm now I want to play HOI4 08:12:13 -!- carado has joined. 08:20:26 * oerjan notes this song in \oren\'s link that has "Stalin" in nearly every line 08:25:39 * oerjan thinks that was a bit much 08:26:29 (to listen to) 08:32:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:33:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:36:09 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Shouldn't the taxonomic group above Kingdom be Empire? ) 08:37:06 taxonomic groups are so pre-cladistic, anyway 08:37:47 oerjan: Yeah? 08:38:12 oerjan: What about horizontal gene transfer? 08:39:15 can't those cross groups, anyway 08:39:20 oerjan: Yeah 08:39:32 what looks better https://arin.ga/JGh7kM/raw vs https://arin.ga/rREUCG/raw 08:39:40 (I do think we need something above Domain that just means "the beginning"; barring panspermia, it would be so we could sort Jovian life against Earth life) 08:39:49 3 3d arrays or 1 4d array? 08:39:59 According to WordNet, domain is fine: http://sprunge.us/hcfM 08:40:38 Oh, huh, Empire is a thing 08:40:56 Prokaryotes vs Eukaryotes 08:41:09 (spellcheck thinks "Prokaryotes" is a typo of "Protestants") 08:41:23 hppavilion[1]: probably written by a catholic 08:41:53 There's also "Legion" 08:41:58 izabera: In my opinion, if you already have three indices, why not go for broke and have the fourth. 08:42:06 yeeah 08:42:20 (I think we need to resort the species into Democratic Republics instead of Kingdoms) 08:45:17 Domain -> Kingdom -> Subkingdom -> Infrakingdom -> Superphylum -> Phylum -> Subphylum -> Infraphylum -> Microphylum -> Superclass -> Class -> Subclass -> Infraclass -> Parvclass -> Legion -> Cohort -> Magnorder -> Superorder -> Order -> Suborder -> Infraorder -> Parvorder -> Section [zoology only] -> Superfamily -> Family -> Subfamily -> Supertribe -> Tribe -> Subtribe -> Genus -> Subgenus (Church of the?) -> Section (botany only) -> 08:45:17 Series -> Species -> Subspecies -> Variety -> Form 08:46:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:04:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:04:28 -!- augur has joined. 09:04:28 -!- xfix has joined. 09:04:28 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 09:04:28 -!- MDude has joined. 09:04:28 -!- ski has joined. 09:04:28 -!- JX7P has joined. 09:04:28 -!- myname has joined. 09:04:28 -!- pdxleif has joined. 09:04:28 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 09:04:28 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:04:28 -!- Guest66666 has joined. 09:04:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:04:28 -!- Tiktalik has joined. 09:05:11 -!- Caesura has joined. 09:05:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 09:05:11 -!- trn has joined. 09:05:19 -!- APic has joined. 09:05:19 -!- hydraz has joined. 09:05:19 -!- mtve has joined. 09:05:22 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest22293. 09:11:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:19:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 09:55:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:15:46 -!- Guest22293 has changed nick to augur. 11:16:16 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest24275. 11:16:43 -!- Guest24275 has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 11:17:29 -!- augur_ has joined. 11:19:13 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 11:30:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:33:41 -!- Janaton has joined. 11:34:35 -!- Janaton has quit (Client Quit). 13:08:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:02:53 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 14:12:59 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:13:48 -!- Cale has joined. 14:38:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:15:09 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:15:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:16:49 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 15:21:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:24:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 16:06:56 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:15:30 -!- MDead has joined. 16:18:18 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:18:25 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 17:03:54 Do you like this? 17:19:29 Like what? 17:25:38 My idea to make new custom Magic: the Gathering card and do you have the idea too? 17:39:38 One kind of variant game I thought of would be this: There is a new pseudotype called "main" and each player will have one "main card" which is not a card or object and does not exist in any zone of the game. As a state-based action, if a main token owned by a player does not exist, create a main token owned and controlled by that player, with the characteristics of that player's main card. 17:39:54 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 17:42:00 "Main" is a designation that an object has (somewhat like an object can be a "commander"), and is not a characteristic. Also as a state-based action, any main token controlled by a player different from its owner ceases to exist. 17:42:22 These "main card" are different from existing cards 17:46:48 What sorts of main tokens would there be? 17:49:16 I am not quite sure; of course how well game is work depends what is available. They could be any permanent, although I thought mainly some planeswalkers designed specifically to be the main cards, that need some time before you will activate the ultimate ability, although in some cases other types of permanents might also do. 17:57:16 If it doesn't quite work so well perhaps to add the following rule: As a special action you can destroy a main token you own. To do this costs an amount of generic mana equal to the total number of times you used this special action so far including the current instance. 18:09:38 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:10:25 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:10:40 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:13:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:22:15 <\oren\> lambdabot has returned! 18:22:20 <\oren\> @botsnack 18:22:20 :) 18:27:18 hmm.. I am battling with one of the main problems in computer programming: naming things 18:28:07 Zarutian: What do you try to name? 18:28:46 spefically an esoteric language that is pretty much an union of a macro system and primitive recursive functions 18:29:37 quickbooks support hotline *scnr* 18:30:23 (definitions of macros must preceed their usage references to keep the language non turing complete) 18:31:21 (and self referencing is not allowed) 18:37:35 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 18:39:42 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:41:34 so you see my problem here 18:52:24 Irc is the only chat i can really use when i need 1 Mbit/s for a large download :/ 18:53:05 cute 18:53:52 Thats what i get for using Centurylink 19:22:20 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 19:22:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:30:14 I think IRC is a better chat protocol than most other anyways 19:36:30 -!- irctc798 has joined. 19:38:51 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:39:45 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 19:41:52 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:31 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:44:47 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:44:48 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:46:42 depends on your focus 19:46:46 i prefer jabber 19:54:31 <\oren\> They should just build any new chat stuff on top of IRC 19:55:15 <\oren\> similar to the way C++ is built on top of C 19:56:42 <\oren\> but hopefully without C++'s habit of adding new systems with no advantage over the old ones 20:10:43 There's a Finnish magazine aimed for teenage girls, with a discussion forum for a somewhat wider audience; they used to also have a chat feature on the website; that was built on top of IRC. 20:11:27 I chatted briefly with the programmers, because they were curious when someone connected to the thing using an actual IRC client. 20:12:16 Wonder if BitlBee is still buzzing along. 20:13:25 Latest release 2016-03-19, so maybe not entirely dead. 20:14:30 Impressive, they've now got a way to use Skype that doesn't involve running an actual Skype client. (Goes via web.skype.com.) 20:15:51 I have used actual IRC client when I had previously found only the client included on the webpage but instead I looked at the source so that I can connect by proper IRC client instead. 20:27:10 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:44:03 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:17:50 -!- irctc798 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:23:06 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:23:20 http://static02.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads//2011/01/xmenfamilytree-labeled.jpeg confuses me... 21:24:03 The key has 6 options (blue solid, teal dotted, red solid, gold dotted, green solid, purple dotted) 21:24:09 But at the very top is red dotted 21:25:45 And I take it the star on several of Cyclops's offspring indicates some genetic thing? e.g. Phoenix Force? 21:26:00 This isn't a "read more comics" thing, it's just a "your chart is stupid" thing 21:32:51 "Science flies you to the moon; Religion flies you into buildings, and Science built the thing you were flying, as well as the building." 21:34:03 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is it possible for two people to have consanguinity >= 1? ) 21:34:35 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Wait, no, I mean >0.5. Obviously =1 is clones (or identical twins), greater is impossible ) 21:36:04 Has anyone developed the field of love trigonometry? 21:39:23 hppavilion: I guess the guys on TvTropes probably have 21:39:35 hppavilion[1]: I think possibly dotted red at top is an in-law sibling (a stepbrother in this case). 21:39:44 fizzie: Ah 21:40:06 @messages 21:42:09 wob_jonas: They have http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TriangRelations, which basically just describes all possible 3-node digraphs (with no loops (but yes cycles), repeated edges, or isolated nodes) 21:42:36 But that's more love-graph-theory than love trigonometry 21:44:08 (They did it pretty well, too, by making sure to exclude isomorphic triangles and such, as they're the same situation where each person is someone else) 21:44:45 When I think of a love triangle, I generally think of triangle #2, which is also called the "Love Cycle" 21:45:15 Don't you know that All The Tropes is more better than the TV Tropes? 21:45:35 `? All The Tropes 21:45:41 A card game where you win if you collect *all* of the tropes. 21:45:55 zzo38: LIES 21:46:06 Type #3 (a War Scenario) is the traditional kind 21:46:54 They are not lies 21:50:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:53:12 hmm, tis-100 dataflow is a bit annoying, but I found the TIS-NET directory (oh no...) 22:01:02 is that the second set of stages? 22:01:16 Hmm 22:01:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:03:20 well there's the initial 5x5 segment map... and right now that looks like another of those indeed 22:04:29 and I'm still missing two programs for the initial map 22:12:07 Which ones? I think I'm missing one 22:12:26 exposure mask viewer and sequence sorter 22:13:01 Right, I don't think I implemented the sort 22:13:02 I should get that game running on my new computer. 22:13:28 I should get steam working again 22:13:31 the latter is tedious, and the former requires juggling four values... need to try it when I'm not so tired 22:13:53 I should also add you on steam probably 22:15:19 int-e doesn't do adding or steam 22:15:35 Or so I heard. 22:16:12 that's mostly true. (I have a community-free, friendless, steam account) 22:16:53 and I've been up for 17 hours, good night 22:17:04 Ah 22:17:12 'night, int-e 22:20:54 I'm missing 'sequence mode calculator' still, it seems. 22:21:16 Everything else in both things are nominal. 22:21:30 I think I had some pretty awful solutions for some stuff, though. 22:22:35 Exposure mask viewer was pretty simple, I think. 22:23:10 But my sequence sorter is something really crufty. 22:24:51 whoa whoa whoa 22:25:08 8 nodes and 91 instructions; my one friend on the list has 4 and 57, respectively. 22:28:09 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:28:12 My solutions are embarrassing. 22:28:20 I should jam some more later. 22:28:24 That's how I feel about mine. 22:29:18 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:40:03 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:43:15 -!- augur has joined. 22:47:46 i have no idea what all that means 22:53:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:02:14 It's a game. 23:02:22 http://www.zachtronics.com/tis-100/ 23:24:35 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:52 -!- Akaibu has joined. 23:30:13 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:31:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:34:56 -!- Melvar` has joined. 23:36:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:37:49 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:38:31 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 23:42:28 I have tried things and failed to figure out how to make a add-on for Node.js 23:43:08 I auditioned for a web video series and got a part! 23:44:03 There is FFI, but that is slow 23:44:11 I think now I'm going to bed 23:45:13 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:45:14 -!- carado has joined. 2016-09-11: 00:00:44 Taneb: Which series? 00:00:56 Or which part? 00:05:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:11:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:13:43 ooh i like zachtronics games 00:35:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:39:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:53:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:30 -!- Cale_ has joined. 01:17:32 -!- Cale_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:18:10 -!- Cale_ has joined. 01:18:27 -!- Cale has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:18:35 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale. 01:19:00 @ask Taneb was it DWFO? 01:19:00 Consider it noted. 01:19:24 `? dwfo 01:19:28 dwfo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:19:51 `learn DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra. 01:19:55 Learned 'dwfo': DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra. 01:20:32 it happened to be announced today on a forum i know Taneb sometimes reads 01:53:21 clang -Weverything enables the weirdest warnings 01:53:28 warning: variable length array used [-Wvla] 01:53:38 warning: format string is not a string literal [-Wformat-nonliteral] 01:53:39 printf(format, val); 01:54:09 warnings about padding in structs 01:54:42 how am i supposed to do these things? o.o 01:57:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:01:29 Then enable only the warnings you will need. 02:04:02 but it found a bug :( 02:04:40 1 real bug, 3 harmless-but-ok-lets-change-it bugs and about 180 bogus warnings 02:10:49 Then enable everything and then selectively disable the warnings that you don't want. 02:18:09 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:39 make -B CC=clang 'CFLAGS=-Weverything -O1 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -Wno-disabled-macro-expansion -Wno-missing-prototypes -Wno-padded -Wno-reserved-id-macro -Wno-date-time -Wno-shorten-64-to-32 -Wno-format-nonliteral -Wno-sign-conversion -Wno-vla -Wno-conversion -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-cast-qual -Wno-unused-macros' 02:23:04 make -B CC=clang 'CFLAGS=-Weverything -O1 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -Wno-disabled-macro-expansion -Wno-missing-prototypes -Wno-padded -Wno-reserved-id-macro -Wno-date-time -Wno-shorten-64-to-32 -Wno-format-nonliteral -Wno-sign-conversion -Wno-vla -Wno-conversion -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-cast-qual -Wno-unused-macros -pedantic -std=c11' 02:24:07 that kind of defeats the point of -Weverything -_- 02:26:11 izabera: i thought the point of -Weverything was to have an option that includes warnings which frequently give false positives; otherwise you use -Wall. 02:32:27 it's funny because it also warns about stuff i didn't write 02:32:41 fiendish 02:32:44 e.g. glibc does this in stdio.h #define stderr stderr 02:33:05 and -Wdisabled-macro-expansion warns because it's a recursive macro 02:39:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:50:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:50:39 Why does glibc do that in stdio.h? 02:52:42 Because ISO C requires stderr to be a macro. 03:28:48 O, OK 03:29:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:29:36 Why is that, though? What exactly is caused by it being a macro in this way? 03:30:25 I can understand why it might say that it MAY be a macro, but I don't know why it should say that it MUST be a macro. 03:33:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:54:04 My guess is some notable body of pre-ISO C code relied on it, and the ISO standard committee wanted to avoid breaking working code if at all possible. 03:54:30 (the latter isn't part of the guess, just explanation for why the former matters as rationale) 03:54:52 how do you rely on that? 03:54:56 #ifdef stderr ? 03:55:39 Yeah. 03:56:02 I will grant it's really dumb, but that's still what I'm guessing. 04:10:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:18:09 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( If we want to specifically refer to a man who is married, could we say "Missus Consort"? ) 04:30:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:33:05 I think I might have seen vertical interval timecode signals on an old TV set that I no longer have. I did see they were some sort of time signal, and perhaps that is what it is. 04:33:27 (I only found the description on Wikipedia today. It was a long time ago that I saw it on TV, though.) 04:59:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:06:21 Someone has told me some of my suggested optimizations for Z-code are extreme. 05:21:32 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/MpPSPQq7oas?t=3m38s 05:23:20 <\oren\> "You can't break this plane. You can land this plane on its fuselage, jack it up, put down the landing gear and then you can take off again." 05:58:39 Do you think this meaning code sharing is OK? http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=6156d70564da7cdfced7aa6cc25350dac895ea1b 05:59:37 (Search for "share_meanings") 06:22:18 -!- Melvar` has joined. 06:23:42 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:24:54 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:39:19 -!- astslash has joined. 06:40:56 -!- astslash has quit (Client Quit). 06:40:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:41:03 -!- atslash has joined. 06:45:55 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:46:54 -!- atslash has joined. 07:06:30 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:20:29 -!- digin4 has joined. 07:22:30 Went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition 07:22:39 Page was about the Spanish Inquisition 07:22:43 Exactly as expected 07:24:34 I want to run SETI@yourfriendshouse 07:25:43 You seem to have confused this IRC channel with Twitter. 07:25:51 meh I just found this ViewPattern: (urlEncode -> query) ... and I don't like it. 07:26:21 My experience with Twitter is the only mode of interaction it has is retweets. 07:26:24 Nothing like IRC at all. 07:26:45 Perfect for this variety of joke, I think. 07:27:09 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:27:14 int-e: Why not? 07:27:29 hmm, slightly surreal: http://sprunge.us/SIPH 07:27:38 -!- atslash has joined. 07:28:12 It's like Garfield minus Garfield. 07:28:15 @shachaf what? What's this 'IRC' you speak of? 07:28:15 Unknown command, try @list 07:28:34 shachaf: it's elegant but a pattern match should not modify data... perhaps prepare it into something digestible... but to my mind url encoding is an important "effect" in some vague sense. 07:29:10 int-e appears to have me muted... 07:29:18 :,( 07:29:44 int-e: What about f s | let query = urlEncode s = ...? 07:29:48 shachaf: I can see a few advantages (the non-URL-encoded thing isn't even in scope) so perhaps I'll grow to like the pattern. 07:30:06 I like the idea of not even naming a thing that you would only use once anyway. 07:53:01 When I see the sentence "Every farmer who owns a donkey beats it." 07:53:07 I can't really see the ambiguity 07:53:23 And I always end up interpreting it as "Every farmer who owns a donkey masturbates" 07:53:59 int-e has a point. 08:13:21 I'm looking at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_gays_should_not_be_allowed_to_edit_articles... and I think I got linked there from Uncyclopedia... but I don't actually see why it exists... 08:13:47 Oh, it's meant to be humorous 08:13:48 I see 08:14:25 I thought the title was the /argumentum ad absurdum/ of various proposals, but that the content would be serious 08:17:11 -!- carado has joined. 08:31:11 protip: if you want people to click on your links, do not add dots at the end of them 08:32:14 how did you find out it's humorous? because it is obvious pr because of the banner at the top telling so? 08:35:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:40:05 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:44:15 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:50:52 -!- Lotus_eater has joined. 08:54:21 @messages-loud 08:54:21 oerjan asked 7h 35m 20s ago: was it DWFO? 08:54:57 @tell oerjan It is not DWFO, it's one being organized by a couple of people in my uni called "STVN" 08:54:57 Consider it noted. 08:55:29 @tell Taneb hi Taneb 08:55:40 @messages-loud 08:55:41 You don't have any messages 08:55:48 ... 08:55:52 shachaf, how 08:58:14 -!- Lotus_eater has left ("Leaving"). 08:59:18 Taneb: ask oerjan hth 08:59:46 @ask oerjan hth (shachaf told me to) 08:59:46 Consider it noted. 09:03:25 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:03:38 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:05:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:10:57 muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurduuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur 09:10:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:22:59 -!- atslash has joined. 09:25:30 `? hth 09:25:32 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 09:36:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:36:41 Good job, Jefferson * 09:37:06 Your YouTube channel is "JeffersonAirplneVEVO", and the icon is just the default "J" 09:37:15 (And this is a VERIFIED channel) 09:45:47 Darn, no fireworks on Schlockmercenary today, just a huge teaser... 09:49:13 Schlock mercenary? 09:49:18 Haven't read that in like ten years 09:49:44 oerjan said 4d 9h 13m 51s ago: Is there a way to implement combinators using C# delegates without getting stack overflows <-- i suspect this is when you need a trampoline. 09:49:49 what is a trampoline* 09:56:34 quoting people who use <-- is very confusing 09:56:43 though this is really a flaw in the <-- convention 09:56:49 scownvention 10:01:27 shachaf: Why doesn't a second layer of <-- fix it? 10:03:53 Hmm, I failed to come up a with a funny way of suggesting that hth stands for heads-tails-heads, a possible outcome from flipping three coins. 10:04:45 `? tht 10:04:47 tht? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:05:26 Fortunately the standards for wisdom/ are very low. 10:05:59 "World Journal of Research and Review" ... who makes up the names of all those crap pay-for-publishing journals? 10:10:22 `learn THT is short for tails-heads-tails, a possible outcome of flipping three coins. It's the opposite of HTH. 10:10:25 Learned 'tht': THT is short for tails-heads-tails, a possible outcome of flipping three coins. It's the opposite of HTH. 10:11:11 What was that puzzle about what combination of three coin flips is more likely to come up first? 10:12:34 something about HHH and TTT having a tendency to clump together 10:14:23 So I'd expect to wait the longest for those two, followed by HTH and THT, followed by the other four that can't overlap with themselves. let me check the math... 10:22:51 -!- centrinia has joined. 10:24:36 -!- centrinia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:28:31 And if I did that correctly, the expected values are 14 for HHH and TTT, 10 for HTH and THT, and 8 for the others. 10:29:18 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:30:23 expected number of flips before they occur? 10:30:34 for the first time, yes. 10:31:06 it was a manual computation though, so feel free to verify the numbers yourself 10:36:08 [from #haskell] " well don't you want IO to somehow capture the physical world?" ... in a cage, perhaps? 10:44:52 -!- idris-bot has joined. 10:48:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:49:59 Oh, another bad earthquake 10:50:06 Just like the last time I opened Google news 10:59:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:01:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:02:02 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is clonecest (especially including gender-inverted clonecest) considered creepy? ) 11:22:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:52:13 Maybe you should stop doing it, if it causes earthquakes. 11:57:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:07:17 ouch I hope none of the punsters on here see this: http://www.mezzacotta.net/pomh/?comic=65 12:09:37 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:17:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:20:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:37:12 [wiki] [[Vitsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49706&oldid=47284 * VTCAKAVSMoACE * (+280) Added infobox 12:42:55 [wiki] [[User:VTCAKAVSMoACE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49707 * VTCAKAVSMoACE * (+295) Creation 13:03:01 [wiki] [[TRUE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49708&oldid=37355 * LegionMammal978 * (+27) 13:39:41 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:42:01 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 13:46:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:17:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:25:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:26:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:26:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:40:14 -!- Zarutian has joined. 15:49:14 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:50:05 -!- atslash has joined. 15:52:19 `? abelian group 15:52:21 abelian group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:57:59 `` cd wisdom; grep -r abelian . 15:58:06 No output. 15:58:14 `` cd wisdom; grep -ri abelian . 15:58:16 No output. 16:33:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:35:25 int-e: :D 16:35:30 good comic 16:37:41 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 16:45:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:47:04 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:08:02 -!- izabera has changed nick to izalove. 17:14:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:30:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:36:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:51:24 -!- heroux_ has joined. 17:55:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:55:09 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 18:03:10 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:08:39 -!- heroux has joined. 18:15:24 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:18:59 -!- heroux has joined. 19:33:52 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:38:31 int-e: Then why do you write it on here? 19:43:52 I do it for the irony 20:11:11 `? int-e 20:11:12 int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. 20:12:36 I may need help for that second part 20:16:44 or perhaps I could claim that I succeeded billions of years ago 20:22:32 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/KSP/P_20160911_151408.jpg <- this is the shit 20:25:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:50:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:50:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:51:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:57:23 how do i set the license on github so that the api knows about it? 20:59:21 ah i'm stupid 20:59:27 no wait 20:59:44 ok there should be a license field in the reply 20:59:47 but i don't see it 21:00:46 found it 21:01:12 it's in https://api.github.com/repos/username/reponame/license 21:15:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:19:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:29:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:29:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:43:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:31 -!- augur has joined. 22:00:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 22:07:29 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 22:08:15 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:27:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:28:01 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 22:31:01 Do you have a scanned or retyped copy of the instructions on the envelope of a IBM flowcharting template? 22:41:58 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 22:42:11 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Changing host). 22:42:11 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 22:43:56 <_46bit> It would be fun to make an IRC channel where a bot with multiple nicks performans plays. 23:05:16 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:07:08 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 23:36:53 -!- lleu has joined. 23:36:56 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:41:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:51:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2016-09-12: 00:09:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:10:00 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:10:03 I think the society in My Little Pony have some rather advanced math 00:11:25 In the second movie, they mention the Pythagorean theorem (they actually SAY the definition- "And the distance between two points is just the square root of the sum of the squares of the difference the offsets of 3-dimensional points" or somesuch) 00:11:34 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:12:36 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:13:20 hpp: it's just square roots, and square roots have been mentioned already in S3 E1. that's not advanced math. even the ancients knew the pythagorean theorem. 00:13:26 They mentioned a person named "Haycartes" (in the context of "Haycartes' Method", which is probably philosophical rather than mathematical but they still have the quy) 00:13:39 wob_jonas: Yeah, but it's fairly impressive for ponies 00:13:52 And they just mentioned pre-calculus (thus implying they have proper calculus) 00:13:59 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 00:14:04 oh yes, sinuses 00:14:16 but they have a snout, of course they know about sinuses 00:15:09 sinuses? 00:15:17 That have anything to do with sine? 00:15:41 no, only the name 00:17:24 They also had the equations for General Relativity on the chalkboard at one point, which implies they have that (I mean, it's probably just that the animators needed something nopony would understand so no one would get upset, but still) 00:26:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:03 -!- augur has joined. 00:30:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:31:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:14 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:33:58 @messages-gold 00:33:58 Taneb said 15h 39m 1s ago: It is not DWFO, it's one being organized by a couple of people in my uni called "STVN" 00:33:58 Taneb asked 15h 34m 11s ago: hth (shachaf told me to) 00:34:11 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa 00:34:13 very good 00:34:18 @tell Taneb it's really quite simple... 00:35:52 @tell Taneb oerjan says it's really quite simple hth 00:35:52 Consider it noted. 00:36:51 hello̼ 00:37:29 hi 00:37:50 wait, when did you buy a Lambdabot Gold account? 00:41:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:41:37 wellob_jonas 00:44:20 copumpkin: This Nix thing is a mess. :-( 00:44:30 Why is it trying to install binutils and bash and all these things? 00:44:52 to build stuff 00:45:18 Why didn't it want them before? 00:45:54 @ask Taneb does that mean it's star trek 00:45:54 Consider it noted. 00:48:42 I hate how there's always greasy cooking smell coming in the windows here. I blame the neighbour on the ground floor. 00:52:11 i've heard hungarian cooking is very greasy 00:52:49 yeah, usually it is. 00:53:20 I prefer it less greasy than average, but that's irrelevant. Nobody likes when they get cooking smell all the time. 00:54:27 pretty sure if anyone tried that in this building they'd set off the fire alarm 00:56:07 (greasy cooking without proper ventilation, that is) 00:56:59 He's got proper ventillation, he's ventillating all the smell outside the building. I bet his apartment is all nice and non-smelly. It's coming in through the window in here. 00:57:01 -!- B1ood6od2 has joined. 00:57:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:57:57 OKAY 00:59:31 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:01:23 -!- B1ood6od2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:01:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:04:59 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 01:08:15 -!- B1ood6od2 has joined. 01:11:39 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:13:21 @tell Slereah what is a trampoline* <-- it is a way to emulate deep recursive calls without a stack, by having each step return directly to a loop at the top, which calls the next step hth 01:13:21 Consider it noted. 01:14:50 @tell Slereah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampoline_(computing)#High-level_programming 01:14:50 Consider it noted. 01:15:48 quoting people who use <-- is very confusing <-- i don't see why hth 01:23:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:26:12 I like stacking left-arrows for stacked replies 01:26:22 makes for a decent one-message quote tower on IRC 01:26:33 I usually use double right arrows instead, like this => => 01:27:25 I usually use "←" 01:32:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:37:30 Maybe we should use other arrows, like ~> or <-| 01:47:29 If I need to calculate where a line from 0 to a complex number z = a+bi intersects the unit circle a^2+(b*-i)^2 = 1, what equation would I use? 01:48:22 (I suppose maybe I'm just supposed to divide by the absolute value? That works for calculating sgn(x) (barring x=0), which this is a generalization of) 01:48:30 hppavilion[1]: yep 01:50:01 note that with a full line, there are two intersections. 01:50:59 -!- B1ood6od2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:20 @tell int-e ouch I hope none of the punsters on here see this: http://www.mezzacotta.net/pomh/?comic=65 <-- too late, i read that comic hth 01:52:20 Consider it noted. 01:53:00 * oerjan hopes int-e won't misinterpret that due to filthy english grammar. or maybe that would be appropriate. 01:54:35 oerjan: Ah, I meant ray 01:55:10 (Is factorial defined for the Gaussians?) 01:55:53 [wiki] [[Vitsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49709&oldid=49706 * Oerjan * (-22) enough of this 01:58:01 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49710&oldid=49705 * Oerjan * (-22) nipping this in the bud 01:58:11 Clearly, it needs to be based on the relationship between a and b & (a+b)! 01:59:58 hppavilion[1]: factorial is generally extended to the complexes with the gamma function. it's probably unlikely to send gaussians to themselves. 02:00:28 oerjan: Yeah, but I was going for something that doesn't require calculus to understand 02:01:02 (Also, the gamma function is stupid. Pi function is much better) 02:01:20 well i'm guessing you're unlikely to find something logical, but i dunno. 02:02:23 i'm not sure if there's a rule for (a + i)! 02:02:36 which is what you'd need to make sense of this. 02:04:39 oerjan: but you know where to look for such a rule, right? http://dlmf.nist.gov/5.5 . and since it's not there, you can be sure there's no easy rule. 02:05:01 i didn't know that. 02:06:22 oerjan: Or you need to know ki! and (a+b)! 02:06:41 Defining ki! is the hard part, most likely 02:07:20 wat 02:07:54 hppavilion[1]: there wasn't any rule for calculating (a+b)! either hth 02:08:07 oerjan: Oh, I hoped there would be 02:08:19 e.g. (a+b)! = a!b! or something 02:08:30 otherwise you'd really just need i! 02:09:05 hppavilion[1]: that's the rule for exp hth 02:09:29 oerjan: Yeah, it was an example 02:09:35 I suppose i! is enough 02:10:04 isn't there a pole or something there? 02:10:11 0! = 1; k! = k*((k-1)!) 02:10:24 no wait, there isn't 02:11:49 (a+b)! = (a+b)*((a+b-1)!) = (a+b)*((a+b-1)*((a+b-2)!)) 02:11:51 the poles are at ik-1 for every integer k 02:11:54 I'm just dumb 02:11:54 Hm... 02:12:06 How about just blind experimentation 02:14:05 Try to find some patterns, see if they generalize 02:14:13 3! = 6; 2! = 2; (3+2)! = 5! = 120; 120 = 12*10 = 10*6*2 = 6*5*2*2 02:17:18 wob_jonas: um the poles are at -k for natural k hth 02:17:32 oh 02:17:34 ok 02:17:41 I was holding this thing sideways then 02:17:47 fiendish 02:17:50 3*5*2*2*2... a*(a+b)*(a*b) where a > b it seems; if a < b it's 2*(2+3)*(2*3) = 2*5*6 = 60 = 120/2 I guess? 02:18:24 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:18:49 2! = 2; (2+2)! = 4! = 24. 2*(2+2)*(2*2) = 2*4*4 = 32, so that pattern doesn't hold. 02:19:19 (s/a > b/a >= b/ or it doesn't work for any even numbers) 02:19:27 -!- atslash has joined. 02:20:02 good luck outpatterning euler and gauss hth 02:20:10 oerjan: ty 02:21:13 I suppose it's probably impossible or really really weird, really, as (1) (k+0)! has to equal k!, so unless (a+b)! really just is a!b! (which I have a feeling I'll disprove with the first example) that doesn't work 02:22:18 and (2) there are a LOT of different ways to write k as a sum 02:23:12 Just to test if (a+b)! = a!b!, (2+3)! = 5! = 120; 2! = 2, 3! = 6, 6*2 /= 120 02:24:13 3!(2^2)! = 6*24 = 144 02:25:00 (3*2)! = 6! = 720 02:26:05 (I keep seeing patterns, but I'm not sure where they're coming from; 720=144/2*10) 02:26:41 hppavilion[1]: f(a+b) = f(a)f(b) on the reals holds _only_ for exponentials hth 02:26:51 oerjan: Yeah, figured 02:27:12 oerjan: n! is kind of a not-quite-but-frustratingly-close-to exponential, isn't it? 02:27:12 (well, assuming an even slightly nice function - there are axiom of choice counterexamples) 02:27:23 IF YOU SAY SO 02:29:56 hm s/reals/rationals/ and its completely true. 02:30:54 Wait, (n+1)! = n!*(n+1) apparently 02:31:06 (wait, what?) 02:31:38 4! = 24; 6*4 = 24 02:31:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 02:32:06 Wait, that is pretty obvious 02:32:17 It's some algebration of the definition given above that everyone has memorized 02:32:23 (Low battery) 02:33:31 ugh: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsG6MSpWAAAdTob.jpg 02:33:44 this one is irritating 02:36:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:46:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:00:13 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:23 -!- j-bot has joined. 03:23:42 What is the best notation for subfactorial? 03:24:20 (Also, should n! just be considered to equal Gam(n-1) at this point? The same way we didn't need a new sign for + when we went from integers to reals?) 03:24:40 (or is it n+1?) 03:28:05 And presumably, there's some equivalent to the gamma function (Maybe we should just call it L(x) where L is an approximate upside-down gamma?) for derangement- L(x) = (n-1)(Γ(n-1)+Γ(n-2)) 03:31:07 Hm, gamma is defined for complex numbers 03:32:52 Oh, and i! is irrationally complex, of course 03:35:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:49 hppavilion[1]: s/Γ/L/g 03:45:02 oerjan: Yeah 03:45:15 oerjan: I just noticed that 03:45:22 `? inory 03:45:29 Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite. 03:46:02 `culprits inory 03:46:07 No output. 03:46:18 `culprits wisdom/inory 03:46:20 oerjan hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] 03:47:03 the functions with the property f(n) = (n-1) (f(n-1) + f(n-2)) are obviously exactly the linear combinations of n! and !n 03:47:54 which makes it strange if only one of them had a complex extension. but the wikipedia page doesn't list one. 03:48:24 or wait hm 03:49:30 what is !n 03:49:48 subfactorial 03:49:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derangement 03:50:12 yes 03:52:12 Not really a fan of !n notation because it's liable to be confused with ~n 03:52:25 wat 03:52:40 "Why are you using 2's complement for anything but computers?" 03:53:11 hppavilion[1]: 2-adic numbers hth 03:53:49 yes 03:54:00 we can use 10's-complement for everything else 03:54:04 oerjan: ssssssshhhhhhhhhh 03:54:17 hppavilion[1]: ~n and !n are totally different HTH 03:54:20 quintopia: 10's-complement doesn't give a field, you philistine 03:54:41 quintopia: Um, the base 10 analogue for 2s complement is 9s complement. 03:55:07 pikhq: oh! then i guess 10's complement _does_ give a field. smashing! 03:55:33 how do I filter the duplicates out? 03:55:56 pikhq: um wouldn't 9's complement correspond to 1's complement? 03:56:11 wob_jonas: which duplicates? 03:56:12 Maybe my memory's messed up. 03:56:37 pikhq: i mean, purely from the naming. it wouldn't be the first time mathematical naming is messed up. 03:57:02 Is there a 3's complement? 03:57:05 (and of course, this makes ternary impossible to speak of) 03:58:47 hppavilion[1]: problem is, with binary you speak of both 1's and 2's complement, which means if you try to extend it to all bases you get overlapping meanings... 03:59:25 Oh 03:59:57 So the 1's complement in base 3 is different from the 1's complement in base 2? 04:00:00 Erm, I'm wrong. 9's and 1's are analogous, 10's and 2's are analogous. 04:00:19 oerjan: i think 10's complement as I meant it is the same as 10-adic numbers? I know that ...99999 is -1, for instance 04:00:20 That's... a little disconcerting 04:01:00 The 1's complement base 3 would be, what, the 3's complement minus 2? 04:01:08 pikhq: Not really sure 04:01:19 quintopia: yeah i understood what you _meant_ 04:01:22 pikhq: What would 3's complement be 04:01:37 oerjan: and yes it doesn't give a field, because rational numbers aren't a field either 04:01:59 hppavilion[1]: 3's complement would be _either_ for base 3 or base 4, with different meanings 04:02:01 3's complement base 3 is 3^n - y where y is the number and n is the number of digits. 04:02:06 Like, how do you invert the trits of a 3-digit number? 04:02:22 quintopia: um rational numbers are a field hth 04:02:38 (because the radix complement in any base is b^n - y where b is the base, n the number of digits, and y is the number, apparently) 04:04:59 oerjan: erm, sorry. not the rationals. rather, the subset of rationals representable using at most k digits after the point in base b. 04:05:36 quintopia: the way you make p-adics a field are by allowing finite number of digits after the point, and infinite before 04:05:47 this does not work for non-prime p. 04:05:57 *is 04:06:10 eh, who cares whether its a field 04:06:50 (unary: mits, marks; binary: bits; ternary: trits; quaternary: tits (tetra- instead of quat-; not qits to avoid confusion with qubits); quinary: pits (again, can't use q, so swapped roots); senary: snits; octal: oits (pronounced "wits"); decimal: dits/digits; dozenal: zigits (so as not to use "zits"); etc.) 04:07:44 Base 256: octets HTH 04:10:40 pikhq: Is the 16's complement of higits/hits (hexadecimal) numbers the same as the 2's complement of the binary equivalent? 04:11:51 hppavilion[1]: ah, wolfram.com has a formula using the incomplete gamma function http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Subfactorial.html 04:13:58 I dunno for sure, but it intuitively seems like it should be. 04:15:49 Hrm. The 16's complement of n is 16^n-digits_16(n), while the 2's complement of n is 2^n-digits_2(n). 16=2^4, digits_16(n)=floor(digits_2(n)/4)... 04:15:52 Hmm. 04:16:17 Phinary is a thing 04:16:34 a phine base indeed 04:18:43 Ah, no wonder I'm confused here, I wrote things wrong. 04:19:06 16^digits_16(n)-n, 2^digits_2(n)-n. Those are the expressions I should be looking at. 04:20:47 digits_2(n) = 4 * digits_16(n). So, 2^digits_2(n) = 2^(4*digits_16(n)) = 16^digits_16(n). 04:21:23 hppavilion[1]: Yes, the 16's complement of a hexadecimal number is the same as the 2's complement of the same number in binary. 04:22:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:23:27 hppavilion[1]: apparently the incomplete gamma function is harder to extend to complex numbers than the usual one, it can become multivalued. 04:23:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_gamma_function 04:24:46 in the case of subfactorial, because of a factor (-1)^s 04:25:03 helloerjan 04:25:16 Where can I find a definition of the differential forms thing you were talking about the other day? 04:26:09 hello̼ 04:26:29 doesn't wikipedia have this stuff 04:27:00 i,i אוריין 04:27:05 Probably. Which article? 04:27:23 "Differential form"? 04:27:39 it's not like i've looked. 04:28:25 although i vaguely recall once having had this explained in university, i have no idea if there even was a book involved. 04:28:39 Well, I want this vector space that you were talking about. 04:28:45 Oh, maybe "exterior algebra". 04:29:35 hm that does look promising 04:31:00 Is this "unordered set of basis elements" basis used anywhere? 04:31:22 (Or is it a non-empty unordered set?) 04:31:24 Cale might know. 04:32:48 shachaf: it'd be empty for the 0 components case i guess. 04:33:12 for n components, you need sets with n elements 04:36:17 apparently the correct term is "n-vector" 04:37:43 maybe Taneb invented them? 04:38:03 who invented taneb? 04:38:15 `? cis 04:38:16 The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. 04:38:21 hth 04:39:12 `slwd cis//s/web c/webc/ 04:39:13 Rosebud! 04:39:14 `? april 04:39:15 april? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:39:19 `slwd ci//s/web c/webc/ 04:39:20 `? january 04:39:21 wisdom/ci//The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. 04:39:22 january? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:39:36 hm 04:39:44 `` ls -l wisdom/password 04:39:46 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 40 Aug 2 03:16 wisdom/password 04:39:55 `? password 04:39:56 The password of the month is Strindberg 04:41:44 `learn The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 04:41:46 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 04:47:47 shachaf: What? 04:48:06 Well, you missed the conversation the other day. 04:48:22 I think oerjan was talking about the definition of multivectors? 04:48:34 oerjan: how does `learn know to update the password in that case? 04:48:55 izalove: it ignores articles 04:49:00 nice 04:49:03 Or some thing that has some complicated ordered basis or something. 04:49:34 shachaf: the "Duality" section in that wikipedia article seems closest to what i said 04:50:10 (about universal property. the "Universal property" section is a different view.) 04:51:40 shachaf: oh and the basis is also shown in another section. (no mention of unordered sets though) 04:54:28 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 04:57:22 hey, any mtg player? 04:57:45 i found a gilt-leaf seer 04:57:48 `? mtg 04:57:49 mtg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:57:52 magic 04:57:58 `card-by-name gilt-leaf seer 04:57:59 Gilt-Leaf Seer \ 2G \ Creature -- Elf Shaman \ 2/2 \ {G}, {T}: Look at the top two cards of your library, then put them back in any order. \ LRW-C 04:58:15 how much would you pay for it? 04:59:28 ah i see, according to this site it's worth up to a whopping $0.80 http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result.asp?Set_Name=Lorwyn 04:59:57 Why are you selling it? 05:00:15 because i don't play this game 05:00:36 I rarely play Magic: the Gathering but I do know all of the rules 05:00:42 You can build your starter deck around it. 05:00:43 the card is in italian and i found it in a book 05:00:53 Do you want deck-building tips? 05:00:58 sure 05:01:00 why not 05:01:04 they could come in handy someday 05:01:05 I recommend including at least one basic land. 05:01:11 ok that sounds good 05:01:14 what's a land? 05:01:17 That's a type of card. 05:01:20 Land is one of the types. 05:01:24 i see 05:01:44 There are very few decks that don't use land. 05:01:45 How to built deck can differ based on whether it is standard or vintage or draft or whatever, too. 05:02:03 how much is it gonna cost me? 05:02:06 Sometimes non-English cards are worth more than English cards. 05:02:30 But that particular card is probably not going to be very valuable no matter what. 05:02:40 Basic lands I think you can get not costing as much as other cards, because they are very common and you can get in all sets. 05:03:03 Yes, only unique variants of basic lands end up being costly. 05:03:05 I'll give you a basic land card for free. 05:03:16 i also found this black lotus thingy, is it worth anything? 05:03:25 (but those are in no way superior) 05:03:29 Blacker Lotus is worth more. 05:03:29 Black Lotus is worth a lot; it is on the reserved list meaning they can't reprint it. 05:03:39 * izalove is being funny 05:03:41 izalove: Either you're fucking with me, or you're not aware that that is a really expensive card. 05:03:42 However, it is restricted in Vintage and banned in all other formats. 05:04:17 Therefore, unless you play Vintage or like to collect it (whether to keep or to resell), it might not be worth as much to you. 05:04:26 What's the going price for a Black Lotus these days, 30k? 05:04:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:04:46 Surely not. 05:04:48 7.5k http://www.ebay.it/itm/like/262597320477?lpid=96&chn=ps 05:04:58 why does ebay.com redirect to .it 05:05:03 stupid localization 05:05:27 Ah, 30k is probably going price for a mint Alpha Black Lotus, not a Black Lotus in general. 05:05:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:05:54 Oh, I'd believe that. 05:06:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 05:08:11 pikhq: You should start an investment management company that provides Magic: The Gathering ETFs. 05:08:23 Hah. 05:08:53 I might buy some shares in your 3x Bull Power Nine ETF 05:09:27 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:09:43 `learn MTG is short for Money Tapping Game. 05:09:46 Learned 'mtg': MTG is short for Money Tapping Game. 05:10:27 oerjan: Is that supposed to be a pun on "tapping", a frequent action that can be applied to objects on the battlefield in Magic: The Gathering? 05:10:39 (Can you ever tap or untap something that isn't on the battlefield?) 05:10:55 shachaf: No. Only permanents can be tapped/untapped. 05:11:24 (Any object on the battlefield is a permanent.) 05:11:31 I forgot the word "permanent". 05:11:38 shachaf: not really, i'd have used a better word if i could think of one. 05:12:03 I wish there was a Magic: The Gathering Online eXchange 05:12:08 -!- aloril has joined. 05:12:21 `welcome aloril 05:12:22 aloril: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 05:12:23 Also, only permanents can be destroyed, sacrificed, attached to other objects/players, have status, etc 05:12:52 But a permanent can be phased out. 05:13:17 Yes; only permanents can be phased out (and most effects ignore them while phased out). 05:13:39 Thankfully nothing can go in the phased out zone anymore. 05:13:56 There was a phased out zone? 05:14:01 Yes. 05:14:08 There used to be. Not any more. 05:14:15 Phasing has had many, *many* hacks to make it work in the past. 05:14:17 I guess it was just a phase. 05:14:20 One of those hacks was a zone. 05:14:34 (A custom card I made up some time ago got a different function due to them changing this rule actually.) 05:14:52 -!- izalove has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:15:34 -!- izalove has joined. 05:15:42 I wish there was a Magic: The Gathering Online eXchange <-- all it takes is one big bitcoin investment hth 05:15:45 If not playing in an official tournament, you may also use proxies, by agreement of players involved; and custom cards, by agreement of players involved. So purchasing the cards is not always necessary. If playing Limited format tournament, you need not bring your own cards (it won't help anyways); you can purchase cards as part of the entry fee. 05:17:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:17:53 I always keep track of rule changes to Magic: the Gathering, far more often than I play, actually. 05:18:54 -!- izalove has quit (Changing host). 05:18:54 -!- izalove has joined. 05:25:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:30:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:40:19 very sound logic in today's girl genius. 06:19:46 i bought a pair of headphones that are so unconfortable they're killing my ears 06:19:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:19:48 i'm in hell 06:25:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:37:28 * oerjan sets fire to izalove's headphones 06:38:52 thanks 06:56:40 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/KSP/MurcielagoAtMun.PNG 06:57:29 nice sunset 07:19:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:38:33 -!- carado has joined. 07:57:18 Good morning 07:57:25 @messages-loud 07:57:25 shachaf said 7h 21m 32s ago: oerjan says it's really quite simple hth 07:57:25 oerjan asked 7h 11m 31s ago: does that mean it's star trek 07:57:47 oerjan, in this case, ST stands for Student Tele 07:59:30 fiendish 08:00:10 @tell Taneb and yes, it's quite simple. 08:00:35 (the VN then stands for vision Network) 08:00:52 I'll link you all the episodes as they go online 08:01:22 THREATS WILL GET YOU NOWHERE 08:05:49 `unidecode Ć̨̽͑ͨ̏ͬ̈́̈͋͆͛͒ͩͥ̆̈́̑͗̑͢͏̡̟̳̤̝͈̼̗̦̝̯̤̦̝̘̩̣͡ͅỏ͂̈́͊́ͬͩ҉͉̥͖̬͙̹̻̫̼̬́͜͝ͅͅǘ̢ͧͭͧ̽̽̏̂̔ͤ̃̇̿҉̡̼̬͖̞͖͈̙͓̙̱̩̹ͅľ̸̨͚̖͇͈͔̘̟̺ͮ̀̓͐̽̾̂ͣͣͧ́̽̀̈́̕͜͜ḋͯ̾̀ͨ̆ͩͯ̾ͮ̂҉̷̟̥̻̠̞̮̺̫̖͍̪̼̳̗̘͈̠̻̣ ̷̻̹̰̖͇̬̺̗͙̩̙͔̻̻̘̟̻͎͙ͦ͊̄ͣ̇ͮ̾ͯ̾̓͂͂ͨ̍͑̈͒͠ 08:05:50 ​[U+0106 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH ACUTE] [U+033D COMBINING X ABOVE] [U+0351 COMBINING LEFT HALF RING ABOVE] [U+0368 COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER C] [U+030F COMBINING DOUBLE GRAVE ACCENT] [U+036C COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0344 COMBINING GREEK DIALYTIKA TONOS] [U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS] [U+034B COMBINING HOMOTHETIC ABOVE] [U+0346 COMB 08:35:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:36:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:42:02 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:50 -!- augur has joined. 08:45:32 ...woooooooooooooow 08:45:53 Albany was considering a law that'd make it a crime to walk away from Airport security (as in, leaving the airport without boarding your flight) 08:47:02 ...OK, I'm beginning to think Hillary might ACTUALLY have some health issues 08:47:42 I mean, I don't see why she'd run for President if she did (unless she was in denial or figured it wouldn't kill her in the next 8 years) 08:48:11 becaus at least it's not trump? 08:48:31 myname: Hillary is /marginally/ better than Trump? 08:48:39 It boils down to shot in the leg vs. shot in the head to me 08:49:29 OTOH, the signs showed up during a 9/11 ceremony (she nearly collapsed when leaving, claiming she felt overheated. Trump is, of course, going to say something about how she was just bored and looking for an excuse to leave, because c'mon, it's Trump and that's exactly the kind of crazy thing he'd say), so it could've just been an emotional thing 08:49:30 welcome tp the usa :p 08:49:50 But I'm pretty sure being emotional /doesn't/ cause your legs to give out usually; wouldn't it generally be the opposite? 08:50:30 No, the video doesn't look like that: https://twitter.com/zgazda66/status/774993814025011200/video/1 08:51:35 hppavilion[1], BBC is reporting she's been diagnosed with pneumonia 08:51:40 but tbh, outlook in germany is not that great either 08:52:29 myname: Yeah, I think the world is either going to end in the next 2 years or this is going to be a long boring period that you'll have to learn about in history where everything sucked 08:55:21 If I ever shoot a video the news starts asking to use, I'm going to have to make some absurd condition 08:56:01 Like, "Yes, but only if you say 'All glory to ba'al the soul-eater' on air" 08:56:46 No, "Cthulhu fhtagn" 09:29:48 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: if she drops out, then Tim Kaine (her VP) would be a much better president probably 09:30:32 If a nominee drops out, does their running mate become the nominee? 09:30:38 <\oren\> sometimes 09:30:59 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: basically, the DNC would decide by a new vote of the delegates 09:31:06 <\oren\> or something 09:31:16 Oh, yep, looks like she actually has pneumonia 09:31:36 <\oren\> she was seen giving hug today to little children 09:31:52 <\oren\> pneumonia is a huge cause of death for children under 6 09:32:35 \oren\: Your point? 09:33:11 As in, if it's contagious (is pneumonia contagious? I've always thought it was a symptom of various things, some of which are contagious) she might have passed it? 09:33:13 <\oren\> my point is pneumonia is really contagious 09:33:25 <\oren\> or most causes anyway 09:33:51 <\oren\> so, then you can narrow it down to causes that aren't contagious 09:34:07 Looking at the news, I feel like we're on an exponential curve towards a tipping point at which there is an anticlimactic resolution 09:34:25 \oren\: Unless she didn't know 09:34:42 <\oren\> whe supposedly was diagnosed on friday 09:37:18 <\oren\> anyway, one cause of pneumonia is stroke 09:38:31 Oh 09:38:44 <\oren\> another is parkinson's disease 09:38:44 I'm beginning to think there might be a serial killer on the loose in anchorage 09:39:06 \oren\: I think we're looking at this wrong; do lizards get pneumonia? 09:39:53 Wait, WTF, there was a double murder at Valley of the Moon‽ 09:39:55 <\oren\> probably. lizards have lungs 09:44:51 Woooooooow, APD doesn't broadcast the police scanner anymore (and they encrypt the stream) 09:46:35 I'm relieved that you mean Anchorage and not Atherton. 09:47:02 http://www.mercurynews.com/2011/08/27/the-best-of-atherton-police-blotter/ 10:00:07 Yeah, I'm convinced, definitely a serial killer 10:18:12 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( If somebody comes out as gay on Wikipedia, does that constitute original research? ) 10:29:58 The official "overheated" explanation suggests more robots than lizards. 10:42:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:43:14 dialogue between coworker that does webthings and coworker that does zfs: 10:43:22 - why are we still using less in 2016? 10:43:31 - less? the command line pager? 10:43:52 - no, less is... do you know coffeescript? well, less is to css like coffeescript is to js 10:44:06 fizzie: Um, lizards are coldblooded and need to move in and out of sunlight to control body temperature. hth. 10:44:06 - . . . 10:48:57 No new xkcd yet!? 10:52:29 Darn, I want to read a dinosaur comics that is more historically accurate AND where t rex wears more :,( 10:57:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:59:23 <\oren\> my theory is that trump is increasing his stamina using amphetamines, i.e. adderall 10:59:58 <\oren\> he's always jittery 11:01:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:16:54 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 11:36:59 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:10:35 [wiki] [[Talk:Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49711&oldid=49694 * Qwerp-Derp * (+102) 12:22:23 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49712&oldid=49697 * Qwerp-Derp * (+309) 12:25:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:31 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:07:10 -!- choochter has joined. 13:11:12 -!- gniourf has joined. 13:42:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:53:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:56:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:01:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:04:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:53:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:24:24 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:10:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:11:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:38 -!- Reece` has joined. 17:12:50 -!- moony has joined. 17:13:57 -!- moony has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 17:14:56 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 17:15:12 Boop 17:19:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:39:13 -!- xfix has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 17:40:36 -!- xfix has joined. 17:56:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:00:55 -!- danofthedeep has joined. 18:01:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:31:44 beep 18:38:31 http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1527.pdf very interesting 18:38:40 why is there no link bot in this chan? 18:38:44 can i bring mine? 18:39:51 https://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical-researcher-discovers-integration-gets-75-citations/ 18:40:16 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:41:55 -!- Caesura has joined. 18:52:00 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:52:03 WTF that's even worse! 18:54:54 That means eight new expansion symbols per year. Four for ordinary expert level expansion sets, two for this "Masterpiece Series" they just announced (why don't they just print the expansion set's symbol in a different color for that), one for a casual supplementary product and one for a duel decks. 18:54:57 That's horrible! 18:55:30 Though at least now they have the set code printed at the bottom, but still. 18:56:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:58:03 Although at least these cards will probably be rare, so maybe there's only six expansion symbols per year I'll commonly see. 19:01:55 ( Magic: the Gathering stuff) 19:01:56 (input):1:6: error: expected: "#", 19:01:56 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 19:01:56 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 19:01:56 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 19:01:56 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 19:09:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:10:40 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:18:32 Do you like this? [:trigger [:upkeep :you]; :iif [:equal [:life :you], 1]; :do [:win :you]] 19:48:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:48:56 what's iif? 19:49:27 i guess :iff 19:55:43 Intervening if clause 19:56:20 zzo38: I like the general idea. I'm not sure about the specific syntax and semantics. 19:58:41 What might you suggest to change? The syntax is RDF syntax. 20:00:02 I'm not yet sure what it should look like. 20:02:33 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:05:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:06:16 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:13:00 I think this format can help to implement effects of Magic: the Gathering cards in computer program, as well as to search the card database by effect (such as with Gremlin or SPARQL or whatever) instead of only by text. 20:15:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:15:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:18:41 zzo38: What I want is a small core set of rules, and for most keywords and so on to be implemented in a "standard library". 20:19:01 Which just uses the same language that's used on cards. 20:19:52 I did too intend that keywords can be implemented in a standard library too, as well as various other rules can be implemented in a standard library 20:22:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:25:22 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:25:46 -!- atslash has joined. 20:30:01 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:32:48 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:35:42 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:36:20 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 20:36:38 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:54:55 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:14:47 What's a "link bot"? 21:15:34 a title displayer, I guess 21:15:51 I don't think that's a good idea. 21:15:57 I wouldn't expect one of those do anything reasonable with a .pdf. 21:16:06 But you can put your bot in here and have it /msg you the titles of links. 21:16:17 fizzie: Why not? 21:16:30 I don't know, it seems like much to expect. 21:16:35 or make it dispay titles, but not for every link it sees, but only when he's addressed? 21:16:49 perlbot, head http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 21:16:56 I'm not sure it has that command 21:17:10 oh right, perlbot isn't here 21:17:34 but it answers in private 21:17:44 -!- MDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:52 I mean, answers when private messaged 21:21:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:25:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:25:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnZb-ibenFA 21:32:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:34:46 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:47:02 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:20:59 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:22:29 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:22:59 -!- atslash has joined. 22:25:32 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:29:23 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:29:28 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:29:48 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:32:03 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:14 -!- digin4 has quit (Client Quit). 22:33:40 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:34:05 -!- digin4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:34:26 idea for a hash table: 22:34:40 - generate a bunch of primes 22:35:28 - when you first allocate a new hash table, associate it the first prime in the list 22:35:55 - when inserting, hash the key and multiply it by the table's current prime 22:36:15 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:36:31 if we get a collision, check the next k elements where k may be 1 for example 22:37:12 - if all the next k elements are occupied, we choose the next prime and try to rehash all the keys 22:37:38 - if we run out of primes, resize the hash table 22:39:40 if we fix k, this guarantees O(1) worst case search time, O(n) worst case insertion time and O(1) avg insertion time, right? 22:40:53 which would be great if you access the elements way more often than you insert them 22:42:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:42:26 Wait, what did I miss. Who is izalove? 22:42:30 it's me 22:42:35 (some version of) java used a simple formula like doing 3x+1 with a magic number starting point, iirc that generated a series of primes up to a billion 22:42:47 Have I seen you here before, possibly under a different nick? 22:42:55 izabera maybe 22:42:58 ah! 22:43:01 indeed 22:43:17 so it's just an alternate nick 22:43:35 planning to keep it for a while at least 22:43:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:44:39 so is that a super bad idea? 22:44:52 i haven't implemented it yet so i dunno how well it works 22:47:33 how do you "check forbthe next element"? 22:47:54 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:48:22 if (!strcmp(key, table[hash+1].key)) 22:48:28 or something 22:48:32 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:50:19 i don't get the role of the primes unless you make hash functions that hash to primes 22:50:31 oh uhm 22:51:13 or at least make it unlikely to have "relevant" divisors 22:51:24 good point 22:51:48 scratch the idea 22:52:00 instead let's use a set of different hash functions 22:52:50 you know cuckoo hashing? 22:52:53 yes 22:53:30 that's probably better eh? 22:55:01 the primes thing was just to have an easy way to generate hash functions 22:55:14 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:55:43 i guess one can use a hash function that outputs 64 bits and do something like (hi32 * prime) ^ lo32 22:56:07 does that look reasonable? 22:58:27 I cannot figure out how to make a addon for Node.js (and on #Node.js channel, they don't help either). I looked at the NAN package but I do not understand it. 22:59:46 that does spund esoteric enough 23:00:48 While FFI is too slow. 23:01:40 And some other stuff I have found fails to compile on this version of Node.js 23:01:49 zzo38: that sounds bad. I hope you'll find other people on the internet who understand node.js and can help you. 23:04:38 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:06:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:10:03 I found a few different packages for accessing SQLite from JavaScript but none of them are very good. 23:14:13 None of them allow implement virtual table modules or VFS. I found sql.js which implements SQLite entirely in JavaScript (so there is no need for native addons), although it only works with in-memory databases (VFS support could avoid this limitation), and since it is implemented entirely in JavaScript it cannot use SQLite extensions. 23:14:52 that latter is scary 23:15:09 so can you perhaps take one of the existing extensions, if they're of a good quality, and extend them? 23:22:08 What latter is scary? 23:23:25 zzo38: the part where they implement it in node.js 23:26:10 Why are addons so difficult? 23:27:40 I have seen someone wanted to add built-in FFI support to V8 and that would improve it a lot. But, they don't do that yet 23:29:01 zzo38: can I ask why you're using node.js? 23:29:10 I'm just curious 23:29:56 It is to execute a JavaScript program, so that I can write a JavaScript program with 23:30:45 ok 23:40:04 I would expect that communicating through a pipe would be as slow as FFI, I think? Node.js doesn't even have a function to create a pipe. 23:42:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:45:43 Do you know any C++ programming? 23:47:32 who, me? yes 23:49:50 Maybe you would know how to do it then. 23:49:56 Potentially-useful function: sign-preserving power 23:50:53 hppavilion[1]: Yes, I think in some circumstances it can help. 23:50:54 b^'p = sgn(b)*abs(b)^p 23:51:03 how to do what? 23:51:13 (I have had use for such in some program I have written once) 23:51:13 zzo38: The most notable circumstance, I think, is root-mean-square 23:51:38 Because negative numbers don't really go well in the root-mean-square AFAICT (they become positive) 23:51:42 wob_jonas: How to do Node.js extension with NAN. I read the documentation but I don't understand so well 23:52:04 zzo38: I don't know anything about node.js 23:52:26 So replace the square root with the sign-preserving square root and instead of squaring numbers, sign-preserving square them 23:55:30 At least some of the time, negative numbers are *supposed* to become positive when you root-mean-square them. 23:55:31 Root-mean-square is usually about getting the "magnitude" of something... I think. 23:55:50 One example is the way that we talk about AC voltage. 23:56:08 tswett: I thought it was just a different version of average with some different benefits and downsides 23:56:10 When people talk about "120 volts AC", that means AC with a RMS of 120 volts. 23:56:23 (Traditionally, is the distance between two complex numbers real or complex? E.g. do you just find the absolute value of the difference of their absolute values, or would it actually be complex itself?) 23:56:53 wob_jonas: Look at the documentation for NAN and see if you can understand that if you know any C++ programming. 23:56:57 The distance between two complex numbers is the absolute value of their difference. So it's always real and nonnegative. 23:57:05 tswett: Ah 23:57:36 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( sqrt((a-c)^2+((b-d)^2)i) ) 23:57:37 zzo38: got a link? 23:58:17 wob_jonas: https://github.com/nodejs/nan 2016-09-13: 00:00:20 zzo38: sorry, I'm not going to try to understand that now 00:00:57 OK 00:04:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:11:36 Sigh. There's this language I'm creating... I think I'm calling it Tokiber. 00:11:36 This language is experimental and will probably never be implemented. 00:12:02 It's kind of funny how it's turning out so far. 00:12:35 Examples of things I have figured out how to define: monoids, groups, rings, categories, functors, natural transformations. 00:12:44 Example of something I haven't figured out how to define: addition. 00:16:56 tunes isn't loading :( 00:38:15 -!- hydraz has changed nick to hydPaz. 01:11:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:21:03 tswett: Try defining subtraction; then you just do a-(0-b) 01:21:35 That would be great, except that I've only defined the natural numbers, not the integers. 01:21:42 tswett: laaaaaaame 01:21:51 (What's the language like?) 01:22:04 It's like a deranged version of Haskell. 01:22:11 If all nuclear powers made a no-first-use policy, would nuclear weapons even be useful? 01:22:47 (How about "no-first-use, but only for countries that have the same policy or a total no-first-use policy?) 01:22:50 Well, if everyone is obeying a no-first-use policy, then nobody can ever use nuclear weapons. 01:22:59 s/\)/"\)/ 01:23:04 Excellent, excellent 01:23:11 tswett: What's the policy on chemical weapons? 01:23:12 Making them useless. 01:23:27 tswett: I have a definition of integer addition in Haskell at http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/Bin.hs , maybe try to derange that 01:24:33 tswett: Can you do 2-tuples? 01:24:38 And booleans? 01:24:46 Yeah, it has 2-tuples and booleans. 01:24:49 hppavilion[1]: nuclear weapons are useful to prevent others from changing their minds about using them hth 01:25:00 oerjan: Yeah, that's what I figured 01:25:06 The definition of booleans is a little weird. 01:25:37 tswett: OK, then an integer is (Nat, Bool). If the boolean is true, it's negative, if it's false, it's the same as the Nat 01:25:40 theory BoolType { sort Bool; true : Bool; false : Bool; } 01:26:18 Now, how do I define subtraction on integers without already having defined addition on natural numbers? 01:29:24 tswett: see the definitions I linked? it defines addition and subtraction independetly. though you can also define them together, if you want shorter definitions, like 01:30:47 in http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=849296 where I define addition, subtraction, and comparison all together, although that only works for natural numbers 01:30:57 "General of the Armies" is apparently the highest available military rank (basically a 6-star general). George Washington was posthumously promoted; only one American has ever received it while alive 01:31:06 (Well, highest army rank) 01:31:09 but that latter is cheating, it uses a lot of perl's builtins 01:31:29 so look at the haskell one, which defines the operations straight with pattern matching on algebraic types 01:32:31 Note that I think the hard part here is defining the *language*. 01:33:03 I'm not having trouble defining addition; I'm having trouble deciding which language features to add in order to allow myself to define addition. 01:33:12 tswett: ok 01:33:32 0.5+sqrt(1.25)-star general 01:34:08 then it's easier, I prefer languages that have arithmetic built-in, so why don't you add arithmetic as a language feature? 01:34:37 Because I don't have to. 01:35:33 All right. I think I've figured it out. 01:35:47 I'm gonna post some stuff. 01:35:56 Paste some stuff, rather. 01:36:01 but if you don't want any arithmetic built-ins, then I recommend my haskell code, because it shows how to define addition and subtraction and multiplication and division of integers represented in binary from the ground up 01:37:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:38:22 Huh, legally, George Washington outranks everyone forever. 01:39:16 hpp: how can he outrank everyone forever? can't people just invent higher ranks later? like, if I take over the world and name myself dictator, then I give myself whatever titles and ranks I want. 01:40:04 wob_jonas: Yeah, but if a higher rank is created he gets promoted to it 01:40:23 not if I'm a dictator 01:40:24 (It may take them a while to remember to do that though) 01:40:29 He doesn't outrank me. 01:40:41 wob_jonas: Well if you're a dictator, the US no longer exists so that law is void 01:41:10 http://lpaste.net/192258 - addition and multiplication defined in my language. 01:41:28 wob_jonas: Also, outranks in the army. Dictator is political 01:41:40 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Does a dictator count as a politician? ) 01:41:53 Yeah, dictators decide policy. That makes them politicians. 01:44:27 tswett: It just doesn't feel right to call them that though; they don't have to worry about "approval ratings" or "not being evil" 01:48:48 Right. 01:48:51 Lemme look up the definition... 01:49:31 "One engaged in politics, especially an elected or appointed government official." https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/politician 01:49:49 Google says: "a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office." 01:50:07 So the holder of an elected political office is definitely a politician. 01:50:21 I think I'd say that you're still a politician even if the office isn't elected. 01:58:15 tswett: so does this language have deranged GADT so you can define types with higher-rank polymorphism and non-uniform recursive functions on them? 01:58:52 No, I mean, does it have deranged GADT so you can define types with deranged higher-rank polymorphism and deranged non-uniform recursive functions on them? 01:58:56 So far I don't think I have any kind of polymorphism at all. I don't know what a non-uniform recursive function is. 01:59:23 -!- 7GHAB0D05 has joined. 01:59:23 -!- 7F1AB7QLJ has joined. 01:59:33 -!- 7F1AB7QLJ has quit (Client Quit). 01:59:33 -!- 7GHAB0D05 has quit (Client Quit). 01:59:45 -!- atslash has joined. 01:59:45 -!- atslash has quit (Client Quit). 01:59:56 -!- atslash has joined. 02:04:31 Hmm. My next challenge will be defining lists. 02:05:06 tswett: I think you'll need polymorphism to define lists in general 02:05:53 ...wait, why is the UK not called the United Queendom? 02:06:36 wob_jonas: yup. Lists are kind of inherently a polymorphic thing. 02:06:51 hppavilion[1]: they'd have to change their name every time the monarch changes genders. 02:07:25 tswett: Their national anthem is "God Save the Queen" 02:07:51 If their monarch was a cross-dressing man, would it still be "God Save the [Drag] Queen"? 02:08:20 Wikipedia says that the name of the national anthem *does* change every time the monarch changes genders. 02:08:34 -!- MDude has joined. 02:08:42 -!- Caesura has joined. 02:11:06 Also, they change the portrait of the queen on coins 02:13:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 02:16:43 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:19:22 hm so do norwegians. not sure about the song thing (it's not our national anthem, but we have a king song with the same melody as the english one. in two generations we might get our first modern queen, too. i can see a slight scansion problem with changing the lyrics...) 02:19:22 If one were to personify countries and other government (and non-government) organizations, how would subdivisions and such work? 02:19:44 Would US states be younger siblings or children of the US? And what about the Confederacy? 02:20:24 (they use to play both songs when the king holds his new year speech) 02:20:58 *modern queen regnant 02:21:09 I feel like the Confederacy should be a child of the US (and the US the child of the UK), but then the US states can't be that because a rebellion is distinctly different from a subsidiary government (duh) 02:22:28 (the scansion problem is that the norwegian equivalents of "him" and "her" don't have the same number of syllables.) 02:23:35 tswett: That was my point 02:24:09 oerjan: Your language is terrible hth 02:24:33 hppavilion[1]: "ham" vs "henne" is terrible? 02:25:10 oerjan: Yes. The syllables of common words with almost identical meaning that only vary by context must be equal 02:25:34 the confederacy and the union should be like in fight club obv. 02:26:56 Phantom_Hoover: Wat? 02:27:00 oerjan: that doesn't sound like a big problem. I mean, the poets who write the text of these anthems and other songs can work that around and make lyrics for both version. 02:27:02 Phantom_Hoover: I'm going for familial relations 02:27:20 well your alternate personality is surely a family member 02:27:28 True... 02:27:29 wob_jonas: the lyrics for the male version is already traditional, though. 02:27:31 Ooooooh 02:27:53 Phantom_Hoover: You mean like [SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO ARE TERRIBLE] how Brad Pitt is all in his head? 02:28:06 y 02:28:17 OK 02:28:22 That makes some sense I guess 02:28:24 *are 02:29:11 hppavilion[1]: they'd work like Steven Universe. 02:29:24 I suppose that works? But it doesn't feel right, because if the confederacy had succeeded it'd be a distinct country 02:29:39 The United States is a single person that can split into 50 people (and a bunch of territories). 02:29:48 hppavilion[1]: which reminds me that russian is also terrible: он vs. она 02:29:49 tswett: Nopenopenopenopenope 02:29:51 And they can fuse back into one person. 02:29:53 oerjan: so what's the solution? 02:30:02 Successor/splinter nations have to be children, I feel, but constituent states should be too... 02:30:03 tswett: oh, a superhero! 02:30:06 and so is latin: is vs. ea 02:30:42 tswett: Also, what if I need Texas to talk to the US as a whole? 02:31:07 I mean, I guess I could just not be particularly clear as to how it works, but that doesn't seem as fun 02:32:27 (And there's also the problem of other things- what the hell are the Democratic Party and the Republican Party? I guess they could be siblings?) 02:32:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: go, went, gone 02:33:23 I suppose I could add some non-human stuff to it; both states AND rebellions would be be children, but rebellions are distinct in that they can just kind of separate 02:34:47 wob_jonas: solution? i dunno. they've got a generation or so to find out. 02:35:59 oerjan: wait by "traditional", you don't mean it's been used for so long that there's been many kings and queens since, right 02:36:42 wob_jonas: there hasn't been a queen regnant since medieval times 02:36:59 I see 02:37:03 long before the song was composed. 02:37:14 makes sense 02:37:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:37:58 in fact, it's only with the current generation the laws were changed to make a queen regnant _legal_ 02:38:09 hppavilion[1]: I don't really know how that works. 02:38:20 previously it was agnatic primogeniture 02:39:24 hppavilion[1]: have you considered that the answer to "how does this work" is "it doesn't" hth 02:40:41 Yeah, I think Hungary has only had one queen too, queen Mária Terézia, and that was way back when people were traditionally very gender-biased, so she needed some special stuff done by her ancestors so that she can be queen. 02:42:31 Nope, I'm wrong, she wasn't the only queen. 02:43:05 There was another queen before her in the Anjou dynasty 02:43:34 the king had elder sisters who were simply left out of the line; the crown prince has an elder sister who is in the line but _after_ him and his descendants. only the next generation will have complete equality. 02:43:59 (of succession) 02:45:38 the only queen regnant in norwegian history was Margrete I, who was also queen of denmark and sweden. 02:47:46 Moreover, in Númenor of old the sceptre descended to the eldest child of the king, whether man or woman. It is true that the law has not been observed in the lands of exile ever troubled by war; but such was the law of our people, to which we now refer, seeing that the sons of Ondoher died childless. 02:51:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:08 apparently the mezzacotta people have decided to keep doing privately the puzzle competitions they used to do on behalf of the company http://www.mezzacotta.net/puzzle/ 02:52:30 * oerjan has never tried them, just felt like passing on 02:54:07 oerjan: yup 02:54:46 dammit now tunes loads but not in the browser 02:56:31 hah it was probably my own demonstration of a lambdabot trick that triggered it. 03:00:45 well that and quintopia's massive `unidecode line right after 03:06:09 Nabjol (opposite of Lojban): All sentences are exactly the same ("Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn") 03:12:02 @tell izalove why is there no link bot in this chan? <-- because i banned the last one hth 03:12:02 Consider it noted. 03:12:14 oerjan: tdh thx hand 03:12:59 "You know who ELSE used laws to stop debates‽ HILTER!" 03:13:24 yw̼ 03:13:41 `unidecode w̼ 03:13:44 ​[U+0077 LATIN SMALL LETTER W] [U+033C COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW] 03:13:46 oerjan: v. clever 03:13:55 oerjan: I didn't get it last time. 03:14:03 and you got it on only my third try! 03:14:14 look 03:14:19 my terminal gets messed up all the time 03:14:33 fiendish 03:15:55 `learn HILTER is what happens when someone combines argumentum ad hitlerum, shouting, and muphry's law in one glorious clusterfuck. 03:15:58 Learned 'hilter': HILTER is what happens when someone combines argumentum ad hitlerum, shouting, and muphry's law in one glorious clusterfuck. 03:26:44 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * XxXEliteXxx * New user account 03:26:59 looks promising 03:27:40 you think 03:27:59 XxXYesXxx 03:28:12 hasn't managed to get snagged in the filter yet 03:28:51 have i been pinger 03:29:29 dunno, read the logs 03:30:12 quintopia: barely. 03:31:03 hm looks like a vandal rather than a spammer so far 03:31:22 that thing i was unidecoding renders fine for me, but i couldn't even tell what the underlying letters were 03:32:07 `döts fiendish 03:32:09 fïëndïsḧ 03:33:36 okay...turns out trying to find the optimal tokenization for this coder is REALLY SLOW. even if it compresses like 20% better it won't be worth this ridiculous wait... 03:33:41 oerjan: you are fondish of that word 03:34:17 i am fondish of fondue. it's a fun dish. 03:35:50 (when i go hiking, i prefer a foon dish.) 03:36:41 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49713&oldid=49681 * XxXEliteXxx * (+200) 03:36:55 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49714&oldid=49631 * XxXEliteXxx * (-89) Removed unnecessary comment 03:39:18 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49715&oldid=49714 * XxXEliteXxx * (-62) 03:55:48 shachaf: shocking 03:58:03 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49716&oldid=49715 * Oerjan * (+89) Undo revision 49714 by [[Special:Contributions/XxXEliteXxx|XxXEliteXxx]] ([[User talk:XxXEliteXxx|talk]]) (This comment is by the language inventor and therefore sacred HTH) 04:00:05 shachaf: i'm still not sure it's promising, but at least it's not a spammer. 04:12:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:29:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:32:06 tswett: Wait, would EU be the child or the parent of several countries? 04:32:52 (The merging of two countries- e.g. East and West Germany- is of course caused by them having a child and then that child getting batman'd 04:32:53 ) 04:33:22 (Or maybe they'll just adorably merge. Not sure how much I want to real-world it) 04:34:15 De jure East and West Germany didn't merge, instead East Germany was entirely dissolved and its constituent territories joined West Germany. 04:34:32 It wasn't an adorable merge. 04:48:02 quintopia: What coder is that? 04:49:06 @messages 05:07:01 pikhq: Yeah; they merged and WG stuck. 05:07:10 EG was absorbed into WG 05:11:23 wob_jonas: Was it majestic? 05:11:39 Magic: the Gathering has Urza's Avenger and the variant Jodah's Avenger but I would want to make up this new variant: {0}: ~ gets -1/-1 and gains your choice of banding, flanking, skulk, or menace until end of turn. 05:15:49 Science: The Agriculturing 05:18:52 Fuckin morons... 05:19:31 Pearson Education only lets your password be a-zA-Z0-9@._- 05:19:39 It also has a MAXIMUM length 05:19:55 hpp: what's the maximum length? 05:20:10 a maximum length of 1024 bytes or something can be reasonable 05:20:21 wob_jonas: 32 05:20:25 32 characters 05:20:30 though I'd prefer 4096 bytes 05:20:36 32? that's too low 05:20:37 And it encourages the ones humans can't remember but computers can guess 05:20:41 wob_jonas: Yeah. Fucking idiots. 05:21:11 If you use a random string for that then at least you get a reasonable 193 bits of entropy. 05:21:13 who are these... oh, Pearson Education! yes, I've met the website of those idiots 05:21:16 But, ugh. 05:22:04 it has other problems than that 05:22:20 32 characters should be enough f 05:23:39 Oh, but "may we spam you" is unchecked by default 05:24:07 wob_jonas: It's mandatory for AP Physics 05:25:40 Your password should have a very long maximum length (at least 255, preferably much more), a minimum of perhaps four or five, and allow any sequence of bytes including control characters and invalid UTF-8 sequences and whatever else you want. 05:26:00 zzo38: agreed 05:26:19 Oh well, at least I used a password I've never used before 05:27:07 zzo38: Any sequence *longer than a certain length 05:27:09 except it shouldn't allow tXqW0J9TC . That's a bad password, especially since it's now in the logs. 05:27:48 I think these sites should have a minlength and NO other requirements; if you get hacked because someone guesses it, it's your fault for choosing a shitty password 05:28:07 (There's no way they could just know what is obvious to people who know you) 05:28:20 hpp: no no, I think it's completely fine to have SOME max length. I recommend 4096 bytes. 05:28:21 Of course you shouldn't select that password now it is in logs, but I think it shouldn't check anything except the length, and it is up to the user what password they want even if duplicating someone else's password by coincidence. 05:28:22 zzo38: Minmax = 4096 bytes; all bits in the byte are independent 05:28:30 wob_jonas: Well yeah, and a max 05:28:34 A maximum length is needed, although it should be very high. 05:28:48 Preferably at least 4096 bytes. 05:29:09 zzo38: Yes, the "NO other requirements" was practical, not technical 05:29:49 (For the average user, "your password can't be more than 4096 bytes" isn't a requirement; it's just assumed because who would ever have a password that long? It's not like there are programs that make absurd passwords for you 05:29:49 If the system cannot handle that, lower it to 255, but you should try to avoid needing to lower it that much I think 05:30:04 zzo38: Yes; you CAN lower it, but if you do you aren't using a very good system 05:30:18 Yes I agree, it isn't a very good system if you have to do 05:30:20 zzo38: In fact, any sort of max length is kind of weird; you're hashing the password anyway 05:30:38 Or if you aren't, YOU ARE DOING THIS WRONG START HASHING THOSE PASSWORDS STAT 05:30:45 AND ADD SOME SALT 05:30:54 Yes, and what kind of hashing? Yes, hashing and salt should be used. 05:30:57 AND MEGA-ENCRYPT THE HINTS, DAMMIT 05:31:23 zzo38: Good hashing; arguably, any hash works, but a cryptographic hash is what you should use 05:31:25 No mandatory password hints. 05:31:34 zzo38: Of course, and no security questions 05:31:37 *mandatory 05:31:49 Yes, no mandatory security questions either. 05:32:04 That defeats the purpose of a secure password because people can just check your biography 05:32:21 Security questions should be optional, and you should be able to add your own 05:32:22 Yes, it does, especially if your security question is that easy! 05:32:42 And yes I agree, if security questions are provided at all, it should be optional and you are allowed to write your own question. 05:33:14 What is your mother's maiden name? What is the name of your first pet? What was your favourite class in school? 05:33:16 zzo38: Yes, and if it's a bad question it's your own fault 05:33:46 Yes you are right it is your own fault 05:33:57 Oh, and your bank card pin code should be the year and month of your child's birthdate. 05:35:03 Four digits maximum is a too short password. 05:35:09 wob_jonas: I wouldn't use bank card pins unless they let me make them (a) hex (b) 32 digits 05:35:25 zzo38: I don't think it's even a real password; the security is in "don't walk off with your card" 05:35:27 The password for your bank card and credit card and whatever should have a much larger maximum than just four digits. 05:35:36 s/walk off/let other people walk off/ 05:35:43 hpp: how do you convince everyone with a POS terminal to allow that? 05:36:16 wob_jonas: Anyone who doesn't will be taken into the woods and shot 05:36:23 I think the current system is insecure even if they did make passwords longer actually. 05:36:39 I did propose my own system and protocol, and the customer is allowed to provide their own keypad. 05:36:51 This can also prevent the merchant from cheating by making it display the wrong price. 05:37:16 zzo38: Display the wrong price where? 05:37:37 On the keypad for the credit card transaction 05:37:44 Ah? 05:37:50 Sounds a little suspicious, but OK 05:38:01 zzo38: You should also be able to set up a separate duress pin that works like the "enter your pin backwards" myth, but actually works 05:38:17 That is why customer should be allowed to use their own keypad with their own software. 05:38:55 And then, based on their own software and on the credit card company's service, other things might be possible such as passwords that automatically change every day if you want to. 05:39:26 (Or alphanumeric passwords, or keypads that move the digits around to make it difficult to watch, or whatever) 05:40:52 zzo38: You should also be able to configure your garage door opener to lock/unlock the garage and disable certain remotes at will 05:40:55 And then, the same protocol is used for the purchase by internet by credit cards; either by connecting your own keypad to the computer or by having a program on your computer tat emulates it. 05:41:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:41:29 (e.g. "Your remote will only open my garage after 8:00, so you don't use it for non-booty-call-related purposes") 05:41:31 hppavilion[1]: Possibly someone might figure out such things 05:42:17 Reprogramming the garage mechanism in that way does not seem to be way too difficult, although you may need to install your own computer hardware to control it with 05:42:30 zzo38: Yeah, probably 05:42:39 Also, I want my router to be scriptable 05:42:52 I want to be able to put a Python program on the router and control how things work 05:43:08 ("This computer can use the internet, but all images get flipped vertically") 05:43:42 That might be too difficult since it has to figure out what is a picture; there are different formats, different protocols, and different kinds of encryption. 05:45:39 zzo38: upside-down-ternet 05:46:48 Just turn the monitor upsidedown; now the picture is upsidedown and it work regardless of the file format and protocols in use. 05:47:23 zzo38: No, but I want it to work on unsuspecting victims 05:47:30 Like, conditionallky 05:47:38 I want my router to be scriptable at will 05:48:24 I too want router to be reprogrammable, but I described why that won't work anyways. 05:49:22 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:50:07 What you can think of the Magic: the Gathering card I made up shown above? 05:51:42 zzo38: that {0} activation morphling? you didn't tell what it costs, the types and p/t 05:51:57 can you show the full card? 05:53:12 zzo38: In fact, I think many of them are reprogrammable 05:57:58 Hm, Squid (http://www.squid-cache.org/) does something like this, it looks like 05:58:32 wob_jonas: Look at Urza's Avenger and Jodah's Avenger; I intended to be similar to that, although such details could differ from those possibly. Those ones cost six mana to cast and are 4/4 05:59:14 `card-by-name Urza's Avenger 05:59:15 Urza's Avenger \ 6 \ Artifact Creature -- Shapeshifter \ 4/4 \ {0}: Urza's Avenger gets -1/-1 and gains your choice of banding, flying, first strike, or trample until end of turn. (Any creatures with banding, and up to one without, can attack in a band. Bands are blocked as a group. If any creatures with banding you control are blocking or being bl 05:59:21 `card-by-name Jodah's Avenger 05:59:22 Jodah's Avenger \ 5U \ Creature -- Shapeshifter \ 4/4 \ {0}: Until end of turn, Jodah's Avenger gets -1/-1 and gains your choice of double strike, protection from red, vigilance, or shadow. (A creature with shadow can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.) \ PLC-U 06:07:35 Now do you know if you think of what I wrote? 06:09:41 zzo38: What would be the uses of fully-scriptable routers do you think? 06:11:10 hppavilion[1]: Program more versatile incoming and outgoing filters, logs, automatic dynamic DNS update, automatic time update, port knocking, etc. 06:12:00 Dynamic Wi-Fi passwords (if you have a wireless router), and perhaps even to alter which services are available depending which password is used. 06:12:54 no, sorry 06:13:14 from a router, I prefer low latency and high bandwidth of transferring data on the network over versatile filters 06:14:04 Yes, although sometimes having more filters can be more useful especially if written in C or whatever instead of Python. 06:14:50 Program can be recompiled if you want to alter the filters. 06:15:02 no, routers shouldn't mess with filters. they should just transfer my data in the right route 06:15:30 Sometimes the filter is needed in order to decide what route, though. 06:16:11 no way. finding the right route is done by magic, not filters. 06:16:14 filters can't do that. 06:16:59 Then allow it to be reprogrammed by magic and then recompiled if the setting needs changed, instead of by filters. 06:20:32 zzo38: Ooooh 06:20:51 wob_jonas: Then you use the low-latency high-bandwidth password 06:24:29 -!- carado has joined. 07:02:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:04:45 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 07:06:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:34:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:52:37 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:56:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:00:43 -!- danofthedeep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:01:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:04:58 -!- augur has joined. 09:31:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:34:55 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:35:06 -!- heroux has joined. 09:36:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:55:23 https://twitter.com/Verbalneurotik/status/756743574276956160 dafuq did i just watch 10:12:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:13:33 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:15:03 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:15:25 -!- atslash has joined. 10:26:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:37:18 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:23:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kenrube * New user account 11:24:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:30:00 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:30:17 -!- atslash has joined. 11:37:42 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49717&oldid=49713 * Kenrube * (+166) /* Introductions */ 11:38:06 [wiki] [[Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49718&oldid=49118 * Kenrube * (-44) 11:43:18 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:24:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:27:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:53:49 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 13:28:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:25:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:43:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:51:49 -!- Caesura has joined. 14:59:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:03:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:18:39 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 15:35:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 15:40:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:41:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:44:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:45:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:10:11 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 16:10:24 -!- diginet has joined. 16:12:01 -!- pelegreno has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:12:31 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 16:13:41 -!- Yurume_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:14:59 -!- Yurume_ has joined. 16:25:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:28:26 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:36:58 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:37:50 -!- atslash has joined. 16:51:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:11:20 A new custom Magic: the Gathering card (cost, name, and type, currently unknown): Cast ~ only during your precombat main phase. ;; Creatures can't attack players. ;; Phasing 17:43:45 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:50:48 -!- FireFly has changed nick to EvilFly. 18:02:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:03:08 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:15:52 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:16:37 -!- Reece` has joined. 18:26:21 <\oren\> does js even distiguish between when obj.member is not present versus present and set to null? 18:27:18 Yes 18:27:41 Also, if not present in the object or in its prototype chain, the value will be undefined, which is different from null. 18:28:39 Try: Object.keys({y:undefined,x:undefined,z:null}) 18:29:14 But you can always "undefined = null" 18:30:09 Yes, since "undefined" is not a keyword 18:31:02 You can write void(0) instead 18:31:19 Or you can write (()=>{})() 18:31:29 <\oren\> the point is can you test whether obj has the member x? 18:31:43 Yes you can test that! 18:32:07 <\oren\> ok, so what I'm doing makes sense then. 18:32:27 You can use the "in" operator, and you can use Object.keys 18:32:46 <\oren\> I'm using a member being present as opposed to absent to signal the client ot do something 18:33:07 <\oren\> even if that member is null 18:33:33 Yes, although the default value of a nonexistent property is undefined instead of null. 18:38:02 Lua is the one that doesn't distinguish between the two 18:38:05 (Although, the "in" operator checks in the entire prototype chain and not just the object itself. You can use Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor to check for the existence on only the object itself.) 18:38:23 (setting a member to nil is how you "delete" the member; they're intetionally not distinguishable from inside the language as far as I know) 19:09:35 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:39 -!- EvilFly has changed nick to FireFly. 19:36:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:38:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:52:16 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:53:01 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:53:03 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 19:53:08 <\oren\> hippavilion[!] 19:54:17 <\oren\> man the usa is turning into a giant basket of deplorable frogs 19:54:44 FireFly: why are you evil twh 19:54:56 (the wolves howl) 19:55:08 Well I felt evil for a while, but then it passed 19:55:30 <\oren\> shachaf: are you a deplorable frog yet? 19:55:36 What? 19:55:45 Wouldn't an evil person also claim that it passed? 19:56:14 <\oren\> https://www.hillaryclinton.com/post/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/ 19:56:47 <\oren\> hillary clinton's campaign now claims that pepe the frog is an official mascot of deplorable white supremacists 19:57:22 Well it kinda is 19:57:24 Why would any Person be evil? 19:58:11 FireFly is a firefly, I think. 19:58:57 * FireFly glows 19:58:59 Ok. 19:59:11 * APic is mostly polymorphed into a grinning Cat. 19:59:21 APic: I believe few people consider themselves to be evil. 19:59:27 <\oren\> Slereah: I can't beleive it's gotten to this point. us canadians should just invade, declare martial law, and feed americans tim hortons until they regain sanity 19:59:37 int-e: True. 19:59:45 i,i US Canadians 20:01:07 <\oren\> you know, like a UN intervention deal type thing 20:01:24 <\oren\> canadians are good at that 20:01:40 Canada is too big. 20:02:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:02:08 But Canadians are all right next to the US border. Probably all wishing they could get in. 20:02:32 <\oren\> nah, we're preparing for the invasion 20:03:32 <\oren\> like as soon as the us governemnt fully collapses. 20:03:57 <\oren\> you're about, oh, frog percent collapsed right now 20:04:21 Many People cannot count, yes. 20:17:10 -!- fizzie has joined. 20:17:19 -!- digitalcold has joined. 20:18:17 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 20:21:47 -!- heroux has joined. 20:21:51 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:22:59 -!- vifino has joined. 20:22:59 -!- nortti has joined. 20:22:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:22:59 -!- mtve has joined. 20:22:59 -!- APic has joined. 20:22:59 -!- diginet has joined. 20:22:59 -!- iaglium has joined. 20:22:59 -!- ybden has joined. 20:22:59 -!- 7IZAAJA7S has joined. 20:22:59 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:22:59 -!- erdic has joined. 20:22:59 -!- tromp__ has joined. 20:22:59 -!- zgrep has joined. 20:22:59 -!- atehwa has joined. 20:22:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Yurume_ has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:22:59 -!- kragniz has joined. 20:22:59 -!- jameseb has joined. 20:22:59 -!- b_jonas has joined. 20:22:59 -!- int-e has joined. 20:22:59 -!- kline has joined. 20:22:59 -!- fungot has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Akaibu has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Melvar has joined. 20:22:59 -!- j-bot has joined. 20:22:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:22:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:22:59 -!- puckipedia has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:22:59 -!- staffehn has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Warrigal has joined. 20:22:59 -!- clog has joined. 20:22:59 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 20:22:59 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:22:59 -!- yorick has joined. 20:22:59 -!- olsner has joined. 20:22:59 -!- espes has joined. 20:22:59 -!- \oren\ has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 20:22:59 -!- cnr has joined. 20:22:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:22:59 -!- xfix has joined. 20:22:59 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 20:22:59 -!- ski has joined. 20:22:59 -!- JX7P has joined. 20:22:59 -!- myname has joined. 20:22:59 -!- pdxleif has joined. 20:22:59 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Guest66666 has joined. 20:22:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:22:59 -!- Tiktalik has joined. 20:22:59 -!- gniourf has joined. 20:23:11 -!- pelegreno_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:23:22 -!- relrod_ has joined. 20:23:22 -!- MDude has joined. 20:23:22 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:23:22 -!- aloril has joined. 20:23:22 -!- jix has joined. 20:23:22 -!- nitrix has joined. 20:23:22 -!- paul2520 has joined. 20:23:22 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:23:32 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:23:32 -!- Alcest has joined. 20:23:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:23:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:23:32 -!- izalove has joined. 20:23:34 -!- newsham has joined. 20:23:39 -!- hydraz has joined. 20:23:39 -!- feliks has joined. 20:23:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:23:39 -!- rodgort has joined. 20:23:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:23:39 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 20:23:39 -!- choochter has joined. 20:23:39 -!- zemhill___ has joined. 20:23:39 -!- carado has joined. 20:23:39 -!- _46bit has joined. 20:23:40 -!- atslash has joined. 20:23:40 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 20:23:40 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:23:40 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 20:23:40 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:23:40 -!- Cale has joined. 20:23:40 -!- tromp has joined. 20:23:40 -!- deltab has joined. 20:23:47 -!- 7IZAAJA7S has changed nick to EvilFly. 20:23:47 <\oren\> that was a big netsplit 20:23:48 -!- heroux has quit (Changing host). 20:23:48 -!- heroux has joined. 20:23:48 mmm 20:23:48 <\oren\> ah, there you are, lambdabot! 20:23:48 <\oren\> @messages- 20:23:48 -!- choochter has quit (Changing host). 20:23:48 -!- choochter has joined. 20:23:49 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 20:23:49 -!- hydraz has joined. 20:23:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:24:08 oerjan said 11d 20h 38m 23s ago: yes, yes (in nynorsk), neither (en:egg = no:egg) 20:24:08 oerjan said 11d 20h 38m 4s ago: in fact i vaguely recall english borrowed it from us hth 20:24:08 oerjan said 11d 19h 56m 36s ago: there's a bug so you cannot `revert a new file creation properly hth 20:24:10 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest68061. 20:24:22 -!- pelegreno__ has joined. 20:24:35 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host). 20:24:35 -!- relrod_ has joined. 20:24:46 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:27:03 -!- Elronnd has joined. 20:27:47 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:32:01 -!- EvilFly has changed nick to FireFly. 20:32:29 -!- ocharles has joined. 20:34:11 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:34:11 -!- dingbat has joined. 20:36:53 -!- trn has joined. 20:37:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:37:36 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 20:38:21 -!- Guest68061 has quit (Changing host). 20:38:21 -!- Guest68061 has joined. 20:38:33 -!- Guest68061 has changed nick to FreeFull. 20:40:37 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:52:01 So e := summ(0, inf, λ k -> 1/fact(k)) 20:52:48 Is there a use for se := summ(0, inf, λ k -> 1/subfact(k))? 20:53:40 (let's call it u (e is the 0th letter of euler; u is the 1th)) 20:54:11 (Wait, subfact(1) = 0, so it's undefined unless we drop 1) 20:55:06 (I'll just say n/0 is 0 for now) 20:56:14 `? bug 20:57:02 -!- fractal has joined. 20:58:19 apparently we don't have an entry for "bug". http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/70f188fce734/wisdom/bugbear is the closest one. 20:58:55 -!- sewilton has joined. 21:03:07 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 21:05:41 -!- lynn has joined. 21:06:05 -!- lynn has changed nick to Guest81040. 21:14:55 Calculated; u ~= 2.6382270745053713 21:15:51 i did shuf -n 10000000 -r /usr/share/dict/words > /tmp/src which takes my words file with ~100k words and produces a file with 10M words from it 21:16:25 then i wrote a program that reads a million lines and inserts them in a hash table, then loops over the remaining lines and searches them in that table 21:16:46 and it does insert and search twice and compares my hash table with gcc's std::unordered_map 21:16:54 https://arin.ga/sQLCpu/raw this is the result 21:16:58 what's better? 21:20:21 Is there any use for u? 21:20:51 that's... not very nice 21:21:08 ln(x) := log(x, e); ld(x) := log(x, u) 21:24:53 -!- Guest81040 has changed nick to lynn. 21:25:00 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 21:25:00 -!- lynn has joined. 21:25:00 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 21:25:00 -!- lynn has joined. 21:25:01 (based on the assumption "ln" is short for "logarithm natural" ("natural logarithm" properly, probably translated from French where it would be french('logarithm')+' '+french('natural')), so "ld" is "logarithm deranged" or "deranged logarithm", because u is the deranged Euler constant) 21:25:01 subfact? 21:25:18 shachaf: Subfactorial; derangement 21:26:18 fact(n) is the number of ways to arrange n objects, whereas subfact(n) is the number of ways to rearrange n objects (that already have a set order) such that no object is in the same place as in the starting order 21:26:46 (e.g. if you want to have students grade each others' tests, but you obviously don't want anyone to grade their own because they can cheat) 21:28:56 > let subfact n = fromIntegral (round (product [1..n] / exp 1)) in map subfact [0..10] 21:28:58 [0,0,1,2,9,44,265,1854,14833,133496,1334961] 21:29:18 shachaf: That isn't right 21:29:21 > let subfact 0 = 1; subfact n = fromIntegral (round (product [1..n] / exp 1)) in map subfact [0..10] 21:29:24 [1,0,1,2,9,44,265,1854,14833,133496,1334961] 21:29:42 There you go 21:29:52 @let fact n = product [1..n]; subfact 0 = 1; subfact n = fromIntegral (round (product [1..n] / exp 1)) in map subfact [0..10] 21:29:52 Parse failed: Parse error: in 21:29:57 Bah. 21:29:59 @let fact n = product [1..n]; subfact 0 = 1; subfact n = fromIntegral (round (product [1..n] / exp 1)) 21:30:04 Defined. 21:30:14 > sum [1/fact n | n <- [0..100]] 21:30:18 2.7182818284590455 21:30:22 > sum [1/subfact n | n <- [0..100]] 21:30:24 shachaf: Since e is equal to the sum of 1/fact(n) for n = 0 -> inf, u ("deranged euler constant") is the same but with subfactorial 21:30:24 Infinity 21:30:31 > sum [1/subfact n | n <- [0..10]] 21:30:33 Infinity 21:30:36 shachaf: Remmber that subfact 1 = 0 21:30:47 1/1? = infinity (or undefined) 21:32:36 -!- teuchter has joined. 21:35:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:36:14 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:36:41 Right. 21:36:58 > sum [1/subfact n | n <- [0..20], n /= 1] 21:37:07 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 21:37:07 mueval: ExitFailure 1 21:37:19 I don't even know. 21:37:34 The problem is that I've started using my /query lambdabot window to keep a todo list. 21:37:41 So now I don't /msg lambdabot anymore. 21:43:04 Huh, where's HackEgo. 21:43:15 Trying to hide. 21:43:34 HideEgo 21:43:58 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:45:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:53:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:01:38 `snackego 22:01:40 ​:) 22:10:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:21:09 A while ago, there was someone using the emoticon :) which always used to freak me out. (If you filter out formatting codes, that may not make sense.) 22:21:44 -!- teuchter has quit (*.net *.split). 22:22:08 -!- teuchter has joined. 22:22:43 :) 22:22:45 :) 22:22:49 :) 22:22:50 hm 22:23:04 It's too subtle in this terminal. 22:23:28 :-) 22:23:32 :-) 22:23:41 :—) 22:23:44 :—) 22:23:48 OK, that's too spammy. 22:27:52 -!- teuchter has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:52 -!- sewilton has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:52 -!- Elronnd has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- hydraz has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- feliks has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- zemhill___ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:53 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:54 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:54 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:59 -!- _46bit has joined. 22:27:59 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 22:27:59 -!- _46bit has joined. 22:28:01 -!- zemhill___ has joined. 22:28:04 -!- hydraz has joined. 22:28:04 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 22:28:04 -!- hydraz has joined. 22:28:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:28:10 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 22:28:12 -!- carado has joined. 22:28:14 -!- teuchter has joined. 22:28:17 -!- feliks has joined. 22:28:31 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:28:32 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:30:21 -!- Elronnd has joined. 22:34:40 -!- sewilton has joined. 22:47:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:04:16 turns out my hash table uses about 30x as much space as std::unordered_map 23:04:36 -!- digin4 has joined. 23:06:44 -!- digin4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:08:33 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:08:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:15:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:17:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:21:01 -!- tromp has joined. 23:21:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:33:39 -!- augur has joined. 23:45:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 2016-09-14: 00:17:54 -!- Zarutian_ has changed nick to Zarutian. 00:32:10 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:48:29 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:55:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:56:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:59:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:03:16 ...why does the Vatican even HAVE an age of consent? 01:03:44 Shouldn't it be, like, "age of the oldest living person, plus 1 day"? 01:04:04 hppavilion[1]: not all people living in the vatican are ordained priests hth 01:04:24 oerjan: I think they are 01:04:29 As in, people who can LIVE there 01:04:37 hm 01:06:12 hppavilion[1]: nope. "Women obtain Vatican City citizenship by marriage (as a baptized Catholic) to their husbands; however such citizenship "lasts only for the duration of their stay" in Vatican City." 01:06:26 oerjan: Wait, what? 01:06:51 Why have actual citizenship that you lose when you leave the country when you can just have traditional visas? 01:06:51 helloerjan 01:06:56 According to the Herald Sun in March 2011, there were "only 32 female citizens" residing in the "smallest state in the world". 01:07:05 *+"" 01:07:08 hellopia 01:07:16 i realized something 01:07:31 p-adic numbers are more limited than what i was thinking for 10's complement 01:08:09 is it a field if i take a: Z->Z/10Z and represent real numbers as sum from -infty to infty of a(i)*10^i 01:08:19 hppavilion[1]: people who lose vatican citizenship automatically gain italian by default (and treaty) 01:08:20 To define what a "Country" is, your criteria has to include Vatican City: The Least Country-Like Country That's Still A Country and EXCLUDE the anti-Vatican City, Hong Kong: The Most Country-Like Country That Isn't A Country 01:08:30 is that a field 01:08:30 oerjan: Interesting... 01:08:45 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49721&oldid=49717 * Kenrube * (-7) 01:08:46 quintopia: There was a nice field near my old house 01:09:21 quintopia: the only p-adic fields are the ones from p a prime hth 01:09:39 otherwise, you can easily find a zero divisor 01:09:50 "in some countries in order to be legally defined as a new sex people must first undergo sterilization." 01:09:57 Apparently that's controversial 01:11:02 quintopia: also, p-adic numbers are not reals hth 01:11:10 (Doesn't being transgender defeat the possibility of having children? Like, even if you're a trans man (female anatomy) who is ALSO gay, you probably aren't going to be planning on having children the usual way) 01:12:12 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:12:40 quintopia: the problem with defining multiplication when the number is infinite both ways is that the sum for each resulting digit also gets infinite. 01:13:12 when it's only finite leftwards, each digit only gets a finite sum of possibilities. 01:13:34 -!- izalove has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:14:03 hppavilion[1]: have you considered asking these questions in a forum where people are actually interested in discussing them twh 01:14:40 oerjan: Nope 01:14:52 shocking 01:18:35 quintopia: in particular, for any a,b where a is a 2-adic integer and b is a 5-adic integer, there is a unique 10-adic integer that is equal to a (mod 2^n) and equal to b (mod 5^n) for all n (using the chinese remainder theorem and taking limits) 01:20:10 and if you choose a1=0, b1/=0, a2/=0, b2=0, then the corresponding c1 and c2 become non-zero 10-adics with zero product. 01:20:29 oerjan: i thought the p in p-adic stood for "pooch" tdnh 01:20:31 (maybe i'm not telling you anything you don't know here) 01:21:13 . o O ( shachaf does not get to overuse the word "pooch" any longer ) 01:21:58 oerjan: i think many people who are interested in discussing those questions would be too irritated by the phrasing and implications of the way they're put to answer anyway hth 01:22:00 "Race is a social ruler-and-compass construction" 01:23:28 you should get a twitter account and post your jokes there instead of here. 01:24:17 shachaf: that is possible. 01:27:06 shachaf: I did. It got locked because I looked like a bot. 01:27:19 aha 01:28:23 -!- digin4 has joined. 01:28:50 shachaf: ? 01:29:58 hppavilion[1]: Being trans is orthogonal to getting medical treatment for being trans. *Additionally*, what those countries require includes destruction of any frozen sperm or eggs. 01:30:22 Ah, yes, that's overdoing it 01:30:44 pikhq: Yes, but my point is that if you ARE trans, you probably aren't going to go using the equipment for cisgendery things 01:30:59 If you're a trans-man, you probably aren't going to go around using your uterus 01:31:03 Likely, but why should the state mandate it? 01:31:10 pikhq: I was getting there 01:31:11 I mean, requiring that is stupid 01:31:17 -!- izabera has joined. 01:31:21 my server died 01:31:40 actually no because apache is alive 01:31:52 It probably makes clerical stuff easier (so you don't have to note that the mother is a man), but if your clerications are set up so you can't do that via compartmentalization, you're doing it wrong. 01:32:12 but irc died, ssh is dead, cloudatcost's control panel is dead 01:32:57 hppavilion[1]: Additionally, it is *shockingly* difficult to get medical treatment for being trans in many different cases. And sterilization can be part of those medical treatments... 01:34:18 And again, we are talking about legally enforcing a potentially-unnecessary medical treatment just to have your gender identity recognized. 01:34:22 Which is pretty shitty. 01:36:54 don't say just.. 01:41:00 -!- izalove has joined. 01:42:09 IT'S ALIVE 01:44:34 i did nothing... 01:44:38 still can't access it 01:45:03 we'll be fine as long as it doesn't start shouting BRAINS 01:46:19 BRAINS 01:46:21 BRAAAAINS 01:46:29 AAAAAAAAAA 01:46:39 <_46bit> hppavilion[1]: I'd like to point out that when you say "Yes, but my point is that if you ARE trans, you probably aren't going to go using the equipment for cisgendery things" in reference to reproduction, it feels like you're forgetting non-straight relationships altogether 01:47:11 <_46bit> and that's all I'll say about that. it's too late and this is a wrong venue for this conversation. 01:48:00 _46bit: No, I covered that earlier; it's just that even if you're a trans man AND gay, you probably aren't going to want to carry a baby because that's pretty much 100% womanly 01:48:00 <_46bit> there was a time I created a Linux container with lxc and the hosts /dev devices all vanished 01:49:09 If people can be trans-gender, can I be trans-race? 01:49:27 I'm sure I could get the SJWs to support it, but only if I wasn't white as-is 01:49:51 ("I /identify/ as Pakistani") 01:49:51 <_46bit> figures you had that agenda 01:50:01 _46bit: That just occurred to me now 01:50:09 It wasn't part of my agenda 01:50:33 -!- izalove has quit (Changing host). 01:50:33 -!- izalove has joined. 01:51:12 (Hm, if trans people need to legally change their gender, I think that's already a sign of your society doing something wrong- the law incorporates gender into it. Unless it's just changing whether they say "Mr." or "Ms." on notices) 01:51:16 hppavilion[1]: You'd think that, but there are trans men who have actually gone off hormones in order to carry a baby. 01:51:28 pikhq: Huh, that's interesting 01:51:32 And a tiny bit bizarre 01:51:36 People are complicated. 01:51:40 (More so than transgenderism in general, that is) 01:51:48 pikhq: Oh, really? This changes everything! 01:51:54 :) 01:51:56 What's the computational complexity of people? 01:52:02 O(???) 01:53:04 O(nermous) 01:54:32 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:55:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:55:48 O(1) 01:57:19 O(1/0) 01:59:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:00:08 -!- heroux has joined. 02:01:48 The worst complexity I've ever seen was Worst Sort 02:01:59 Which is O(n!!!!!...) 02:02:08 The number of factorials depend on the exact implementation 02:03:31 <_46bit> :D 02:04:14 <_46bit> I got a couple of factorials in something the other week, then wondered why n=154000 took so long 02:12:54 Unless your name actually is "Mr." or "Ms." then they should omit that 02:13:23 Slereah: bah factorials are insignificant compared to the power of ackermann. 02:13:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:14 zzo38: now i'm wondering if there are any languages where any of those are names. 02:14:31 well, probably without the period, anyway. 02:16:52 apparently Mr. is the artist name of a japanese guy 02:19:22 oerjan: i was onbviously not talking about p-adics 02:19:38 i dont know why you said so much about them 02:19:52 quintopia: because you didn't have the dignity to stop me hth 02:20:07 i wasnt able to. i was at work 02:20:20 anyway, i think the infinite sum for one digit thing i mentioned is what makes it break down to have it twosided. 02:20:36 but abt the infinite sum thing: why is it a problem as long as the sums converge? 02:20:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:21:20 how do make them converge? especially in the reals. 02:21:51 *do you 02:22:13 for general Z -> Z/10Z, there's no reason to expect them to. 02:22:21 why wouldnt they converge? as long as we assume that all finite numbers have an infinite string of 0s or 9s on the left... 02:23:29 ok but then you're basically just using a strange way of writing ordinary decimal. 02:24:05 which gives a field (the reals), but not a unique representation. 02:24:18 (strange for negatives, that is.) 02:25:43 The infinite product 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*... converges in the 2-adics 02:26:08 to 0, even. 02:26:52 "§ (lower case: ſ) is the 19.5þ letter of ðe Eŋgliʃ alphabet" 02:28:54 oerjan: yes a strange representation for ordinary decimal is exactly what i meant when the other day i said "10's complement" 02:29:09 one where addition works for subtraction 02:29:52 the fun bit is that ...999.999... is negative zero 02:29:59 OUCH 02:30:33 food -> 02:30:48 (okay technically it's just an alternative representation for zero, but it's more fun to call it negative zero) 02:31:25 -!- augur has joined. 02:31:32 I should probably learn about p-adics 02:31:46 quintopia: It's -1 + 1 02:31:56 FireFly: I prefer the vc-adics 02:32:00 I don't think there is a distinct negative zero 02:33:00 what about the drug-adics 02:34:08 I like how the ackermann function grows faster than any primitive-recursive function 02:34:28 And any stack of factorials is primitive-recursive 02:45:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:53:41 did you know that 4^(4^4)cm is wider than the observable universe? 02:55:06 x^(x^x) goes 0, 1, 16, 7.6*10^12, wider than the observable universe 03:05:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:16:30 quintopia: 0^0 != 0 unless explicitly stated to be 03:17:04 Also, that's 3^(3^3) presumably 03:19:58 quintopia: pft, TREE() grows much faster 03:30:41 > 3^(3^3) 03:30:44 7625597484987 03:31:44 > length "625597484987" 03:31:46 12 03:31:48 confirmed 03:44:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:17:10 > exp 3 04:17:16 20.085536923187668 04:17:55 > 4*(log (4^4)) / log 10 04:18:00 9.632959861247397 04:18:21 4^(4^4) is a 9 digit number then? 04:18:25 Or rather 10 digit 04:19:33 -!- izabera has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 04:22:38 > 4^(4^4) 04:22:45 1340780792994259709957402499820584612747936582059239337772356144372176403007... 04:22:48 Oh, no 04:22:55 My calculation was clearly wrong =P 04:23:08 > log(4^(4^4)) / log 10 04:23:15 154.12735777995834 04:23:19 spam 04:23:24 Sorry 04:32:06 <\oren\> rebooted my computer now my blutoth mouse is working 04:32:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:33:44 <\oren\> why is blutoth such an unreliable thing 04:39:55 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:41:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:45:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:45:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:45:36 I'm a tad unclear on the exact rules of ± 04:46:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:46:36 ±1 is {-1, 1} 04:46:58 and 5±2 is {3, 7} 04:47:08 But then things start to break down 04:47:32 Is (1±i)^2 {2i, -2i} or {2i, -2i, 1-i}? 04:48:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 04:48:58 s/1-i/2/ 04:49:12 (2i = (i+1)^2, -2i = (i-1)^2, 2 = (1+i)(1-i)) 04:52:53 hppavilion[1]: the former. 04:53:22 But if you just make it normal numbers, (2±3)^2 feels like it should be 5^2 = 25 or (-1)^2 = 1, but if you try it the fun way you get those two AND 13 04:53:24 oerjan: Oh 04:53:49 you don't get to expand ^2 like a macro when the content is multivalued. 04:53:53 Why? Is there a fixed reason, or is it just because everything is nicer? 04:54:04 Ah, right 04:54:51 oerjan: So you have to solve&separate the inside first, THEN macronize it on each separate result? 04:54:59 > let a +- b = [a+b,a-b] in (^2) <$> (x +- y) 04:55:04 [(x + y) * (x + y),(x - y) * (x - y)] 04:55:13 yeah 04:55:24 > let a +- b = [a+b,a-b] in (*) <$> (x +- y) <*> (x +- y) 04:55:30 [(x + y) * (x + y),(x + y) * (x - y),(x - y) * (x + y),(x - y) * (x - y)] 04:56:18 -!- izalove has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:58:37 -!- izabera1 has joined. 04:58:59 oerjan: Argument of the day: If there's more than one ± (e.g. a±b±c) do you have to treat them all the same (so a+b+c OR a-b-c), or can they mix (So a+b+c, a+b-c, a-b+c, OR a-b-c) 05:00:55 -!- izabera1 has quit (Changing host). 05:00:55 -!- izabera1 has joined. 05:01:07 -!- izabera1 has changed nick to izalove. 05:02:35 hppavilion[1]: mixing is allowed. 05:02:47 oerjan: OK 05:03:11 oerjan: what about the thing where you use +- in one place and -+ in the other place 05:03:16 So then WTF is ∓‽ 05:03:19 oh right 05:03:22 to indicate that the same choice is used respectively in both 05:03:27 s/WTF/WÐF/ 05:03:32 shachaf: yeah hm 05:03:44 hppavilion[1]: ok there's exceptions, darn 05:03:49 -!- bibibi has joined. 05:04:03 >:) 05:04:10 `unidecode ∓ 05:04:11 ​[U+2213 MINUS-OR-PLUS SIGN] 05:04:54 i think we're heading into "if you do this you get to explain your notation" territory. 05:05:13 agreerjan 05:06:28 Ah, yes 05:06:37 agreerjan^2 05:07:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:09:01 * oerjan suddenly envisions putting indices on the signs 05:09:32 oerjan: now write a monad for it hth 05:11:12 oerjan: There's also ⋇ btw 05:11:15 no, i don't think so. 05:11:18 oerjan: Huh, that actually works 05:11:28 `unidecode ⋇ 05:11:30 ​[U+22C7 DIVISION TIMES] 05:11:46 fiendish 05:12:05 ж 05:12:31 write a subscript after a ± or ∓ to link it to all others with that sign; all ±s with the same index are + and - at the same time, all ∓s with the same index are + and - at the same time and never the same as ±s with the same index 05:12:40 `unidecode ж 05:12:43 ​[U+0436 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE] 05:13:04 hppavilion[1]: but of course. although at this point multiplying by {-1,1} valued variables s_i is probably more standard. 05:13:42 oerjan: Well yeah, but that's no fun 05:14:00 oerjan: Is there an operator set, like Sigma and Pi? 05:14:09 Which would give you the set of a bunch of things. 05:14:15 oerjan: Oh, and what if we need "only 2 out of these 3 can be + at once; the other has to be -, but it doesn't matter which 2 are +" 05:14:32 I guess that's just an alternative way to write set comprehensions. 05:14:36 >:D 05:14:42 ℝ is the set of real numbers 05:14:55 shachaf: just use a big union sign and braces. 05:14:59 ℝ^k is a k-dimensional space, because a set S to a power k means a k-tuple of items from S 05:15:26 (presumably, all sets work like this, where multiplication of sets is just a tuple of the values- nothing more than Cartesian product) 05:15:39 oerjan: i,i {}_{(i,j) \in {1,2,3} x {5,6,7}} { i+j } 05:15:52 k is, generally, a natural number 05:16:50 But are there definitions for k < 0 &| k ∉ ℕ? 05:17:02 `unidecode ℝ 05:17:03 ​[U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R] 05:17:20 oerjan: Your font is terrible hth 05:18:04 shachaf: Wait, wðf does ðat notaʃon mean‽ 05:18:25 Please stop being annoying. 05:18:26 -!- shachaf has left. 05:18:34 wait, what? 05:18:41 Did I do something? 05:18:49 hppavilion[1]: it's putty, it doesn't support using more than one font. 05:18:55 Oh? 05:19:26 @tell shachaf I'm sorry, though I'm not exactly sure what in particular I did. :( 05:19:30 Consider it noted. 05:19:49 i can paste it into my browser and it shows fine. 05:20:43 hppavilion[1]: shachaf's irc client has even bigger problems with unicode than mine hth 05:20:49 Oh 05:21:18 also, i don't know generalization for k < 0. 05:21:27 So is ℝ^k defined for anything other than k ∈ ℕ 05:21:28 OK 05:21:40 oerjan: Anything for k ∉ ℕ? 05:22:01 i recommend not using those fancy chars as i've already pointed out i cannot read them easily. 05:22:42 Ah, right 05:22:51 Anything for k \nin |N? 05:22:54 but assuming you're asking about complexes, that seems as hard as negatives. 05:23:44 you can do infinite cardinals, obviously :) 05:24:12 oerjan: No, I mean like 2.5. Is there any generalization that /somehow/ supports something that looks like a 2.5-tuple? 05:24:58 not that i know of. now if you were just asking about any set with that dimension, i'd point you to fractals. 05:25:03 (Preserving the generic properties that doing types like this has; (S^n, S^m) is pretty much equivalent to S^(n+m) 05:25:07 ) 05:25:37 I have a feeling no, but you never know 05:27:54 me too 05:28:50 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: well, if you had a S = R^2.5, then the tuple (x,y) where x and y are in S would be a member of R^5 05:29:03 Yes, they would, wouldn't they? 05:29:13 it's a little bit like those fractional bits in TURKEY BOMB, i suspect - they don't really exist individually. 05:30:11 (and trits) 05:30:46 Wait, I suppose R^(-1) (aka "anti-R" and typically written Я (the Cyrillic backwards-R, of course)) would basically be a quotient type of the Unit Type and the Reals (Quo[Unit,Real]) 05:31:08 But I still don't really know WTF a quotient type is 05:31:17 quotient types of singleton sets tend to still be singleton sets hth 05:31:28 *quotients of 05:32:44 <\oren\> so you need a set R^0.5 such that to specify a member of R, two members can be used. 05:32:45 now i'm reminded about those people who said they could define a reversible computation system where the types were a field. but they never explained how they avoided the obvious contradictions, so they probably didn't. 05:33:57 oerjan: Oh? Including where we're assuming the singleton is the (pardon my arithmetic) numerator? 05:34:11 \oren\: Yeah, basically 05:34:27 (R^0.5, R^0.5) has to pretty much directly correspond with R 05:34:55 (I suppose I could make it... no, that won't work) 05:35:09 well there were units, i think 1 may have been just the computation that makes input and output equal 05:35:25 Q can be represented by (Z, W) ips 05:37:32 (I suppose (R^(-1), R) would have to be the unit type, and that doesn't seem right- if all else fails, you just always use the same value in the first place every time and the second place can be any real number, so the limit being 1 possibility seems impossible) 05:37:42 now come to think of it there may be an obvious way to cheat based on R being the same cardinality as R^2. it probably won't give something very nice. 05:38:15 Yeah, true 05:38:24 and it'll still break for getting R^0 = R^a x R^(-a) 05:38:26 Quotient type of R and R^2 or somesuch? 05:38:39 Yep 05:39:05 R^0 has to be the unit type (or empty tuple, or whatever. Are those all the same in whatever type theory we're using?) 05:39:36 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:40:35 Sgello 05:40:48 i dunno, i don't know all type theories. 05:40:55 Sgeo_: I'm trying to figure out if -1-space is a reasonable thing 05:41:59 for some kinds of dimension measures, there is _one_ reasonable -1-space, the empty set. 05:42:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:44:05 (e.g. the measures where you define the dimension to be n if a space can be split up with subspaces of dimension n-1) 05:54:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:01:33 oerjan: I suppose negative time dimensions would be measured in hertz? 06:03:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:04:50 well the idea certainly does. 06:09:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:09:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:09:56 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 07:04:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:19:33 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:24:09 % is a stupid symbol 07:24:35 It basically indicates "Hey, the previous number is a proportion of a whole, not a count. Oh, and we multiplied it by 100 for no apparent reason at all" 07:25:43 no no, that symbol indicates the following number is a job number, not a pid, and also, if this appears as the command, then there's an implicit fg command before it 07:27:29 wob_jonas: I'm trying to remember if there's a way to express logarithms using exponentiation and division alone 07:27:41 % is obviously the division remainder operator 07:27:45 I seemed to remember it being (1/b)**x, but then I realized that's stupid 07:27:49 FreeFull: Yes, it's that too. 07:28:30 FreeFull: And log*_b(x) is the iterated logarithm remainder operator 07:29:56 (an easy way similar to how roots are x**(1/k)) 07:30:23 hppavilion[1]: Let's just regard % to mean "divided by 100". The population of the US is 318.9%%% 07:30:57 er, that was wrong 07:30:59 Cale: Isn't it usually multiplied? 07:31:17 Cale: Use antipercent (a mirrored percent sign) for that 07:31:19 The population of the US %%% is 318.9 07:31:21 yeah 07:31:27 (or just put a percent at the beginning) 07:31:32 yeah 07:31:48 Cale: Do you know of an easy way to logarithmicate? 07:32:31 -!- carado has joined. 07:32:55 I also created the constant u (the Deranged Euler Constant) today 07:32:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:33:06 Well, log_b x = log_a x / log_a b 07:33:28 So if you know the right constant to multiply by, you can do it roughly by counting digits 07:34:08 Yes, I've got that 07:34:22 The problem is I want to do it simply 07:34:26 (I might just import log) 07:34:51 Oh, simply in terms of what? 07:35:30 <\oren\> no % is the modulo operator, duh 07:36:04 <\oren\> i wish c++ had made % and ^ work the right way with floats 07:36:32 \oren\: Yeah, Cale said that 07:36:34 (roughly) 07:36:53 I didn't say that :) 07:37:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm#Arithmetic.E2.80.93geometric_mean_approximation -- this method might be good 07:37:39 If you're implementing an algorithm 07:38:23 Yeah, I just gave up and imported it 07:38:36 I was hoping to avoid it as a dependency, but oh well 07:39:06 ln(x) = log_e(x), lb(x) = log_2(x), lg(x) = log_10(x), ld(x) = log_u(x) 07:43:16 huh? 07:43:24 i know ld as log_2 07:43:29 what is u? 07:44:10 myname: ISO recommends lb for log_2 07:44:22 meaning what 07:44:24 (not sure where that 'd' came from anyway...) 07:44:32 But u is the Deranged Euler Constant 07:44:32 dualis 07:44:40 Oh 07:45:04 e is defined as (or at least can be calculated with) the sum of the reciprocals of all factorials from 0 to infinity 07:45:30 what does the b in lb stands for? 07:45:31 u is the same, but with subfactorials instead (and we just ignore subfact(1) because that causes divide-by-zeroes) 07:45:35 myname: 'binary' 07:45:53 that's horrible 07:46:04 @let agm x y = head [u | (u,v) <- iterate (\(u,v) -> ((u+v)/2, sqrt (u*v))) (x,y), abs (v - u) < 1e-10] 07:46:08 Defined. 07:46:21 myname: It's the only name Wikipedia even knows 07:46:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_logarithm 07:49:22 the german entry has lb also listed as ld for logarithmus dualis 07:49:33 > pi / (2 * agm 1 (2^^(2-16) / exp 1)) - 16 * log 2 07:49:36 1.0000000011791865 07:50:04 myname: ISO 80000 recommends base 2 is lb and base 10 is lg. If we're going to have an ld other than the Deranged Logarithm, ld should be base 10 and lg base 2 07:50:44 I find it kind of weird that log bases are even a thing. 07:51:10 Cale: they aren't. base e, base 2, and base 10 are the only useful ones. 07:51:10 how so 07:51:17 Cale: Why? 07:51:19 We usually don't bother giving special names or indices to scalar multiples of a function. 07:51:29 Cale: sqrt(2) 07:51:56 ah, so it's weird for the bases to have special names, not the existence of the bases as such 07:52:10 Well, even the bases are pretty weird 07:52:13 wob_jonas: I don't think base 10 is even very useful outside of the fact that we all count that way 07:52:23 not really 07:52:26 (When not in computers, you can just drop the index entirely for roots for square roots) 07:52:31 hpp: it's useful for calculating in my hand because the numbers are in base 10 07:52:31 Cale: How? 07:52:35 we do have the same for roots 07:52:36 Like, whenever you would have written log_10 x, you could have just done away with the concept of log bases altogether and written log x / log 10 07:52:41 which is really not so much worse 07:52:49 I know base 10 logarithms, not base e ones 07:52:49 wob_jonas: I forget, how does one do log 10 in one's head? 07:53:13 Cale: It's cleaner and less confusing 07:53:19 Cale: it does make the concept less understanding imho 07:53:35 While equivalent, it's confusing 07:53:47 yeah 07:53:55 Because defining log_b x as k s.t. b^k = x is understandable 07:54:01 hpp: you learn the exponential sequence 1, 1.25, 1.6, 2, 2.5, 3.15, 4, 5, 6.3, 7.9, 10 to compute approximate base 10 logarithms and exponentials, and you use them to compute approximate multiples of large numbers when you want to do approximate calculations 07:54:04 I do it all the time 07:54:05 try explaining kids why you divide by the stuff you have as your basis 07:54:14 Defining it as however the hell base change works is impossible to understand 07:54:29 hppavilion[1]: That works if you can define b^k appropriately, but how do you want to do that? :) 07:54:56 Usually we define b^k as exp(k log b) 07:55:06 Cale: Tell them how exponents work, then tell them how it works if they're negative, then explain square roots, then general roots, then rational powers 07:55:18 s/how exponents/how natural exponents/ 07:55:26 So what does 2^sqrt(2) mean? 07:55:58 Cale: If you want a meaningful representation, you just round it off as with all other irrational numbers 07:56:03 it's very useful when I only want approximate magnitudes 07:56:06 Round it off and pretend it's a rational 07:56:32 obviously if I want a more precise calculation, I use a computer 07:57:18 Well, how do we know that rounding it off is okay at all? 07:57:37 The same way you find the circumference of a circle given its diameter; you don't find an infinite series that yields the answer when completed, you just say pi is 3.14159, multiply by that, and say "close enough" with a little footnote 07:57:50 If we don't know how x^y is defined for irrational y in the first place, we can't justify any means of approximating it 07:59:50 Cale: We hold off the actual proper definition for irrational y until they've taken some calculus 08:00:20 Oh, I highly recommend not talking about logarithms at all until one has had some calculus. 08:01:02 Of course, the highschools don't do that because they're big fans of confusing people and making them think they're "bad at math" by introducing things with circular definitions :) 08:01:31 and leaving out all the content of mathematics, which is the proofs 08:01:43 hpp: no, we don't. we give one of the two definitions for exponentiating reals _before_ calculus, 08:02:00 wob_jonas: That works too 08:02:01 You need some sort of limit 08:02:14 Cale: I'm not even in Calculus yet and I get logarithms fairly well. I couldn't tell you the exact rule for irrational powers, but otherwise I get it. 08:02:23 If you really want to scrape by, you can use the least upper bound property directly. 08:02:25 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 08:02:37 -!- diginet has joined. 08:02:39 the definition where you extend exponentiation from rational exponents to real exponents such that it's monotonous in the exponent 08:03:16 wob_jonas: How do you know that extension is unique? 08:03:39 and even without calculus, it's possible to prove that on rational exponents it's monotonous, so an extension exists, and with a bit more work, it's even possible to prove that the extension is unique 08:04:05 Cale: without calculus, you do stuff with inequations to effectively prove that it's continuous on rationals 08:04:21 and prove that way that the extension at any point is unique 08:04:46 or you just take it at faith at that point and prove it later after you've done some basic calculus, which is still not circular 08:04:47 I've never seen a highschool introduce enough concepts to actually make the thing work. 08:05:09 Well, some presentations aren't circular, but just leave out details, those are the better ones 08:05:12 Cale: I could recommend a good textbook, but all the good books at highschool level I know are in Hungarian 08:05:32 I'm sure in some parts of the world, they do a better job than in the US and Canada 08:05:37 how much mathematics do you read in Hungarian? 08:05:40 none 08:05:49 then I won't recommend textbooks 08:06:37 Unfortunately, schools in the US *seem* to like introducing logarithms quite quickly. I think this is for historical reasons, though. 08:06:41 The best way to do it, imo, is just to wait until you have the integral 08:06:49 and/or power series 08:06:54 one or the other will do well enough 08:07:04 Logarithms used to be a practical requirement for a lot of calculation, after all. 08:07:24 Yeah, it's sort of a silly hold-over from the times when people actually used log tables 08:07:47 Note that you also need to know that exponentiation is continuous to be able to define logarithms 08:07:49 and so you'd need some sort of hazy idea of what they were about in order to use them to multiply numbers faster 08:08:05 so it's definitely needed, but it's still possible to just leave the proof for later in a high school 08:08:16 wob_jonas: You need to know that the integral of a continuous function is continuous :) 08:08:29 and the integral of a positive function is monotone 08:08:29 Even if you didn't really get them, it was worth at least having the directly relevant properties shoved in your head. 08:08:35 Cale: no, the power series is the other definition, and you need to know both in any case, and prove them equivalent 08:08:47 Well, depends on how you go about things 08:08:52 Cale: what integral? 08:09:01 integral from 1 to x of 1/t dt 08:09:19 You can take that as the definition of log x 08:09:27 um... yes, but I don't think that really helps you 08:09:27 and work everything out from there 08:09:53 You need a bunch of properties about integrals which get proven using the least upper bound property of the reals 08:09:58 well, I don't really sure what all the possible ways are and which work and which don't, I just know one way I think it should be done, but whatever 08:10:44 i.e. that any nonempty set of real numbers which is bounded above has a least upper bound (or supremum) 08:11:56 You can use that directly to define the logarithm, but you end up doing a lot of low level work to prove the rest of its properties then 08:12:25 It's better to put that low level work toward proving some general facts about integrals, and then just use those 08:15:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:23:44 -!- Alcest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:26:39 Trump said that, because Hillary insulted millions of decent Americans, she should either apologize or drop out. 08:26:40 ... 08:40:44 -!- Yurume_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:42:02 -!- Yurume_ has joined. 08:47:31 -!- clog has joined. 08:50:50 I kind of want to start using the ⸮ for sarcasm, but there's no inverted version for spanishization :( 09:01:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:08:17 Oh, it looks like it's more common for rhetorical questinos 09:08:19 *questions 09:08:53 `unidecode ⸮ 09:08:54 ​[U+2E2E REVERSED QUESTION MARK] 09:13:45 They probably couldn't tell whether to call it the REVERSED INVERTED QUESTION MARK or the INVERTED REVERSED QUESTION MARK, and therefore omitted it completely. 09:14:32 maybe they just accidentally inverted its existence. 09:14:57 ≟ is useful, should replace all other uses of = with it. Because you can just never be sure. 09:14:59 fizzie: I don't think unicode omits any character just because they can't decide on a good name. they have tons of characters with bad official names. 09:15:16 `unidecode ≟ 09:15:17 ​[U+225F QUESTIONED EQUAL TO] 09:17:20 * ⁑ ⁂ 09:22:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:27:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:42:35 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:31:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 10:31:59 In order to have a machine in the style of The Time Machine (one which makes you experience time differently) 10:33:07 You would have to adjust your temporal speed (s/s). You'd likely have to adjust it continuously (rather than a clean jump), so you'd have to know how much your temporal speed can change in 1 second (presumably on your side)- how many s/s/s. This is, of course, s/s^2, or 1/s 10:33:20 Therefor, how good your time machine is is measured in Hertz 10:38:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:50:14 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:52:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:53:09 "i am a floobicratican! we stand for more freedom unless it's not a freedom we like, in which case we refer to its restriction as patriotism" 11:08:19 -!- iconmaster has joined. 11:08:27 -!- iconmaster has quit (Client Quit). 11:16:37 -!- teuchter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:17:04 -!- teuchter has joined. 11:24:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:24:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 11:24:57 `bobadventureslist 11:24:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found 11:24:59 `boblist 11:25:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: boblist: not found 11:25:07 whatever is it called? 11:25:11 ``` echo bin/*list 11:25:13 bin/FireFlist bin/aglist bin/bardsworthlist bin/danddreclist bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist bin/dontaskdonttelllist bin/ehlist bin/emptylist bin/erflist bin/flist bin/idealist bin/ioccclist bin/keenlist bin/list bin/listlist bin/llist bin/makelist bin/makelistlist bin/minimalist bin/mlist bin/olist bin/pbflist bin/slist bin/smlist bin/stylist bin/testli 11:25:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:25:21 no list for that yet? 11:26:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:55 `? FireFlist 11:30:57 FireFlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:31:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:08:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:34:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:55:47 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:07:39 -!- carado has joined. 13:13:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:25:53 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 13:33:17 -!- Kaynato has joined. 13:51:36 -!- byteflame has joined. 14:01:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:11 -!- Akaibu has joined. 14:13:30 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:32:24 -!- Caesura has joined. 14:33:12 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:34:36 -!- byteflame has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:15:27 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:26:25 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:31:11 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 15:52:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:54:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 16:20:14 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:36:50 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:40:59 -!- Caesura has joined. 16:41:14 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:41:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:44:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:58:04 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 17:08:09 <\oren\> Gah, is the middle of septemeber hiring season or something? 17:08:39 <\oren\> suddenly four firms have emailed me in 24 hours 17:11:37 \oren\, I think it's to get fresh graduates 17:17:45 are you a recent graduate 17:17:51 *taneb 17:18:02 Phantom_Hoover, I've got a year left 17:46:39 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 17:49:08 -!- AnotherTest1 has left. 18:03:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:10:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:18:56 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I've been wanting a letter for the Eŋgliʃ Reformed Alphabet that makes the english-equivalent 'ch' sound. I've been using 'ĉ/Ĉ' so far, but I just realized I could just use 'q/Q' ) 18:22:44 @ping 18:22:44 pong 18:50:46 (Many ſtores are named as a poſſeſſive- "Smith's". If a ſtore is named for a group ſharing a laſt name, it's "Smiths'". If you want to refer to more than one Smiths', you ſay "Smith's's" or ſomething weird like that.) 18:53:49 hm, wasn't the convention to use 'ſs' for two consecutive ones? 18:54:49 nortti, I believe so, iirc that's where ß comes from 18:55:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:20:25 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:24:09 nortti: Was it? 19:24:30 Taneb: I thought ß was ſz and only allowed at the end of words 19:25:06 no 19:25:11 just not at the beginning 19:25:20 straße is pretty valid 19:25:36 hppavilion[1]: I seem to remember some kind of rule about having two 'ſ's in a row, but checking wikipedia it doesn't speak of that 19:25:55 also, the convention was to put s on the start of a syllable and the other thing at the end 19:26:09 nortti: It has the word "ſucceſsful" 19:26:09 so it would've been stra|-se 19:26:43 (Haviŋ boþ 'ſ' and "ʃ" iſ kind of confuſiŋ, as ðey look ſimilar in many fonts) 19:27:08 oh, great 19:27:24 wikipedia page 'ſ' redirects to 's', not 'long s' 19:30:01 hppavilion[1]: why use 'ſ', tho, you don't seem to be using it for any distinct phoneme? 19:30:37 and your approach seems to be mostly to do away with legacy complications, why reintroduce one that has already fallen out of use? 19:30:44 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 19:31:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:34:29 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:35:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:53:04 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:53:11 -!- atslash has joined. 19:54:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:59:03 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:59:41 -!- atslash has joined. 20:00:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:00:34 What would the office of Copresident of the United States of America (POTUS*) be? 20:06:47 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:07:24 I believe that Alexander Hamilton lost the dual to establish it 20:08:21 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:08:41 -!- atslash has joined. 20:10:07 @messages-lousy 20:10:07 hppavilion[1] said 14h 50m 41s ago: I'm sorry, though I'm not exactly sure what in particular I did. :( 20:11:05 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:12:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:18:45 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 20:21:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 20:22:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:26:20 -!- carado has joined. 20:26:40 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:26:47 -!- atslash has joined. 20:27:56 <\oren\> what if instead of just reforming english spelling, we just agreed to pronounce everything in a japanese accent and use katakana! 20:28:56 <\oren\> ｦｳﾄﾞ 20:31:30 <\oren\> or skip the entire issue and write every word with a different character 20:31:48 -!- Tiktalik has quit (Quit: kilakit). 20:37:19 \oren\, you can't transliterate my name into Japanese characters 20:38:02 (hurrah for the voiceless dental fricative) 20:38:43 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:39:26 Tanepu 20:41:12 ｱｲ ﾌｫｱ ﾜﾝ ﾗｲｸ ｼﾞｯｽ ｱｲﾃﾞｨｱ｡ ｲﾂ ｿ ｼﾝﾌﾟﾙ! 20:42:01 Oh, there's a bu, never mind. 20:45:01 shachaf, it was "Nathan" I was referring to 20:45:39 half-width katakana, eh 20:45:43 Taneb: that's transliaterated from the hebrew which has no fricatives hth 20:46:00 The standard way of transcribing the voiceless dental fricative would be with "s". 20:46:31 So just nickname Taneb 'Na', and call him Na-san 20:47:12 -!- carado has joined. 20:48:52 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:49:45 -!- atslash has joined. 20:52:41 Taneb: So yeah. ﾈｲｻﾝ is a perfectly fine transcription. 20:53:48 pikapooch 20:56:02 私haveも書ten英語と漢字為嘘s&笑s.It's楽. 20:56:43 "I have ten pooches. It's great." 20:57:23 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:58:12 -!- atslash has joined. 20:58:14 No, that would be "私有十犬.It's大良." or some such. 20:58:32 Na-ten 20:58:59 I do not have ten pooches. 20:59:04 But I am soon moving somewhere with three! 20:59:09 It will be poochtastic. 21:02:26 There are three pooches in Colorado?! 21:02:42 There are three pooches at the place I'm moving to *in* Colorado. 21:02:50 Three pooches in Denver? 21:03:06 Three pooches in the house! 21:03:20 Well, except when they're outside. 21:03:36 Cats are too good. 21:03:40 They don't even need to go outside. 21:03:59 I'm used to cats that go outside often though. 21:04:03 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:10:58 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 21:15:28 Are there any traditional, ſimple methods for graphing functions in 3-D? 21:15:37 Something I could implement myſelf? 21:16:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:17:27 is this ſ thing an attempt to be as annoying as possible? 21:17:36 izalove: Yes hth 21:17:42 *hðh 21:17:51 it's working fine 21:18:01 izalove: Alſo, I rebound my 's' key to 'ſ' by default 21:19:58 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:23:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:25:57 that's not even correct 21:26:07 say 'pessimistic' 21:29:09 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:29:26 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 21:36:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:44:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:44:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:46:17 `hi 21:46:26 Hi veratin. Heratin. 21:46:38 Oh, there's a default. OK. 21:47:02 There's a random default. 21:47:03 `hi 21:47:05 Hi laste. Haste. 21:47:16 It comes from 'words'. 21:47:28 It's p. silly. 21:48:13 `hello 21:48:14 hello, world 21:48:23 oh right, I defined that one 21:48:25 `hello c 21:48:26 Hello world 21:48:33 it takes a hexadecimal number argument 21:50:24 `hello world 21:50:25 Hello World! 21:53:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:53:33 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:53:45 `hi hppavilion[1] 21:53:46 Hi hppavilion[1]. Havilion[1]. 21:53:50 Woooow 21:53:56 That's completely wrong 21:57:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:02:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:04:16 <\oren\> exact quote from DNC email: 22:07:06 <\oren\> We have been compromised! But it's all ok. Here is our new password: HHQTevgHQ@z&8b6. 22:08:21 <\oren\> how can anyone be so stupid 22:08:45 \oren\: Wait, really? 22:10:14 <\oren\> yes, really! 22:12:00 <\oren\> thae email was sent by Rachel Palermo (press secretary of the DNC) to RegionalPress@dnc.org which seems to be a mailing list 22:12:39 <\oren\> this happened twice! 22:13:17 <\oren\> i wonder if hillary clinton's email server also renewed passwords using this ultra-secure method 22:14:42 <\oren\> oh, it didn;t happen twice, she had to resend the email because the password was wrong 22:15:01 <\oren\> the actual password was HQTevgHQ@z&8b6 22:15:07 <\oren\> note only one H 22:15:52 <\oren\> seriously people should flood her linkedin and facebooks calling her a moron 22:16:04 uh 22:16:07 people should not do that 22:18:57 Also, "HQTevgHQ@z&8b6" still has two Hs. 22:19:16 <\oren\> another crazy email: From: Manriquez, Pablo Subject: Password Needed for dncpress@dnc.org Text: Does anyone have it handy? Thank you! 22:19:39 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:20:27 <\oren\> seriously what is with these people transferring passwords unencrypted over networks, neopets had better security than that 22:22:42 <\oren\> some of their infrastructure at least went with sending password change links rather than actual passwords 22:27:17 \oren\: I bet I could make worse security 22:27:19 Log in -> Forgot password -> Forgot email -> Enter new email -> Send password change link to new email 22:30:12 \oren\: Her server wasn't hacked by 1337 Russian H4XX0ЯZ, it was hacked by a totally normal Russian with the most basic understanding of computers who just used Billary's biography to answer the password reset security questions. 22:32:17 <\oren\> yeah probably 22:32:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:32:43 * hppavilion[1] is far too proud of the phrase "1337 Russian H4XX0Я" 22:38:23 a 2d game where you're in a modern art museum and you have to steal a painting, but the museum changes its shape. there are one or more guardians and you lose if they see you 22:38:28 thoughts on this? 22:38:57 guardians cannot see through walls but they may see through windows 22:39:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:43:39 how would you make that 2d? with windows spanning from top to bottom? 22:44:28 uh no just a view from the top 22:44:38 windows can just be represented as holes in walls i guess 22:45:04 sounds a bit like hitman go 22:45:53 never played it 22:49:14 the trailer looks cool 22:50:20 is it called -go for pokemon go? 22:53:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:55:56 Maybe Catholic Confession would work better if it were distributed- instead of a confessional with a room for a priest and a room for a shamee (though traditional confessionals actually have two shamee rooms and a priest in the middle), two adjacent rooms where each serves as priest-like to the other; they trade confessions and penanceſ 22:59:07 izalove: I believe it has the 'go' suffix just to denote "mobile". 22:59:19 izalove: It does predate Pokémon GO by much. 22:59:55 oooh so pokemon go has that suffix because of hitman go 23:00:00 thanks for clarifying it fizzie 23:00:48 If you want to think of it like that. I have no idea who started it, but it's definitely not limited to those two games. 23:01:32 (The latest Pokémon GO update doesn't work on my phone. :/) 23:01:44 fizzie: you have root, then 23:02:07 myname: It's an Android "dev-keys" device, which counts as that. 23:03:13 (Aka an "userdebug" build.) 23:03:35 doesn't matter that much to me. the game is boring as hell 23:03:56 I like incrementing numbers, and it's got a lot of them to increment. 23:04:03 (Also walking around.) 23:04:46 I agree that it's quite boring, but for some reason walking around without having those numbers increment feels like waste of walking now. 23:05:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:05:04 play ingress :p 23:05:09 Maybe I should use a fitness tracker or something instead. 23:05:48 but yeah, there seems to be not a single really interesting ar game around 23:06:14 I also think several of the critters are cute. 23:06:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 23:07:03 my dwarfs won't haul :/ 23:07:06 Though it'd have to alternate- with two rooms L, R each occupied by one c \in C (the congregation) at a time, the priest starts in one of the rooms (let's say he starts on the left (L); a priestess would start on the right (R)), the first Congregation member enters R, confesses, and is issued a penance. The priest exits. [ret] The next member enters L, confesses, and is issued a penance by the occupant of R. R exits. goto if 23:07:06 empty(C). The next in line enters R, confesses, and the occupant of L issues a penance and leaves. goto [end] if empty(C). goto [ret]. [end] L and R both exit. Confession complete, everyone goes and fulfills their penance 23:07:53 hppavilion[1]: The holy C. 23:08:53 (I was originally going to make it so everyone pairs off- two people enter L and R, L confesses to R, R issues penance; R confesses to L, L issues penance, but then I realized that inevitably leads to L inflating penance if they feel R was unfair and R reducing penance so as not to be seen as such) 23:09:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 23:09:09 (Also, alternating loop-pairing is MUCH more entertaining) 23:13:37 (If one wanted to remove the "I is capitalized because the speaker is the most important person on earth" thing from english (for some reason; maybe because it's just a little unnecessary?), would it be better to say 'I' should be lowercase or that all personal pronouns ({'I', 'You', 'He', 'She', 'They' (when singular, ...}) should be capitalized?) 23:13:44 `? firefly 23:13:45 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 23:14:02 feel free to replace it 23:14:08 it's a pretty boring factoid 23:14:43 FireFly: Wait, are you named after the show or is the show named after you? 23:14:50 FireFly sprø som selleri and chews ice. 23:15:12 (It obviously can't be a coincidence, as #esoteric is the centrer of everything) 23:15:58 hppavilion[1]: neither, as far as I know 23:16:04 I'm named after the insect, thank you very much 23:16:10 Ah 23:16:24 So you share a common name-source 23:16:30 I always forget about that option 23:16:41 correlation, causation, etc etc 23:16:47 FøreFly 23:18:55 (Centrer: The systematically and sarcastically annoying approach to settling the er/re divide, taking the ideas of both options and combining them badly in a way that removes the benefits of the American spelling and is somehow /worse/ than the sum of its parts) 23:20:52 (AKA the aporgenic approach) 23:20:56 -!- Caesura has joined. 23:20:58 `? synergy 23:20:59 synergy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:23:33 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:24:43 `? le/rn synergy/Something is synergetic when it violates the Law of Conservation of Energy by managing to release more energy than is put in. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. 23:24:44 le/rn synergy/Something is synergetic when it violates the Law of Conservation of Energy by managing to release more energy than is put in. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:24:51 `le/rn synergy/Something is synergetic when it violates the Law of Conservation of Energy by managing to release more energy than is put in. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. 23:24:55 Learned «synergy» 23:25:29 that wisdom entry is pointless 23:25:37 put it on twitter 23:26:17 shachaf: I feel it's appropriate for wisdom 23:26:43 I feel it's not. 23:27:40 Also, it's 140 characters too long. 23:28:05 shachaf: Then we shall consult an arbitrator. 23:28:57 As is tradition, the challenger may choose the arbitrator from the pool of eligible arbitrators. 23:39:49 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Roman numeral extension: I is for 1, J is for the denominator (the denominator is assumed to be 1 unless there are symbols overriding- VIII is 8/1 = 8, VIIJ is 8/1 = 8, VIIJJ is 8/2 = 4 23:39:50 ) 23:41:32 hppavilion[1], what would XXX be 23:41:44 Taneb: 30 23:41:53 Not 20/10 or 10/20 23:41:54 ? 23:41:56 Assuming that's an X 23:42:08 Taneb: No, the X is only the numerator. 23:42:20 How would you write 20/10 then 23:42:21 20/10 would be XXY. 23:42:25 Why Y 23:42:48 What would CD be 23:42:50 Taneb: Because it's vaguely associated with X and isn't already taken. 23:42:52 400 or 100/100 23:43:37 (the 'letter after the normal numeral' thing is just a coincidence) 23:47:45 -!- lleu has joined. 23:59:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)). 2016-09-15: 00:10:13 That is not how fractions in Roman numbers are work. 00:10:22 S means one half, and a dot means one twelvth, is how to do. 00:12:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:13:05 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:18:36 -!- byteflame has joined. 00:24:42 `` ls -l bin/don* 00:24:47 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 111 Dec 9 2015 bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 19 Dec 9 2015 bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist -> dontaskdonttelllist 00:27:09 -!- Caesura has joined. 00:27:22 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:29:30 -!- Akaibu has joined. 00:30:40 wikipedia page 'ſ' redirects to 's', not 'long s' <-- you could have said it was technical reasons, i was all ready to fix it... 00:31:04 `dontaskdonttelllist 00:31:05 dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ 00:31:53 i may have forgotten about using that one... 00:32:02 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mglukhov is pretty irritating 00:32:50 They added a bunch of links to their website and got warned not to spam. So instead they added a screenshot of a web browser with the URL bar showing their website's URL, purportedly as a diagram. 00:33:07 hah 00:33:39 sounds like something that a little cropping could fix. 00:33:54 Oops, I meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mglukhov 00:34:06 Cropping would be a funny way to fix it. 00:34:53 Though I'm not sure their article contribution isn't contrived to justify the existence of the screenshot in the first place. 00:34:58 shachaf: http://optioncreator.com/long-straddle is this the website? 00:35:11 just wanted to know if this http://optioncreator.com/long-straddle is the site they should be stop spamming 00:35:11 Yes, that one. 00:35:19 oh so it's http://optioncreator.com/long-straddle 00:35:22 i see 00:35:29 i hope they'll stop spamming http://optioncreator.com/long-straddle 00:36:00 i take it you work there. 00:36:12 no i don't work at http://optioncreator.com/long-straddle 00:36:27 inconceivable 00:37:11 this person posted all sorts of spam 00:37:16 but you seem to be obsessed with long straddles 00:37:28 this game got boring 00:37:41 it was boring before you started 00:37:49 not for me! 00:38:04 I'd guess that it was negative-sum. 00:38:17 Anyway I wonder whether there's an easy anonymous way to report that spammer. 00:38:38 make fake user -> report bad user -> delete fake user 00:39:00 step 3 is optional 00:39:03 Well there'sa #wikipedia 00:39:19 Which is as anonymous as your IRC connection 00:40:10 -!- byteflame has joined. 00:41:16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangle_(options) is pretty blatant. 00:42:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: obvEuslE, I is capitLIzd bEcuz I is u loG vWl! 00:42:31 i just noticed the new interface on github 00:42:38 open any profile 00:43:30 -!- byteflame has quit (Client Quit). 00:47:40 whatever, still not responsive. 00:48:12 -!- mtve- has joined. 00:48:27 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:49:18 Gift of the Magi is a little weak, because [spoiler alert] hair grows back 00:53:51 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:54:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 00:54:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:58:04 "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow." 00:59:48 "it's a crappy vow, try again" 01:00:42 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:03:42 people should not do that <-- shachaf++ 01:10:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:11:54 -!- nitrix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:13:21 14:56:18 Maybe Catholic Confession would work better if it were distributed- [...] two adjacent rooms where each serves as priest-like to the other; they trade confessions and penanceſ <-- that won't work because ordinary people have not made a life vow to keep the priestly rules including confidence 01:13:42 oerjan: Yeah, but if you break it you go to hell. 01:14:12 hppavilion[1]: how would you be sure the other guy is even a catholic... 01:14:36 oerjan: The priest pokes him with the catholic stick to make sure. 01:14:53 *sigh* 01:15:59 [redacted snarky comment] 01:16:07 That's a thing, isn't it? 01:17:03 -!- nitrix has joined. 01:17:17 If the priest does not follow that rule then he is excommunicated, and therefore is not the priest. 01:22:23 hppavilion[1]: another problem is that ordinary catholics might not know all the rules for penance - iirc there are cases where you cannot get absolution without intervention from the vatican. 01:24:37 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 01:24:42 oerjan: Such as? 01:25:53 hm maybe i'm confused. 01:29:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:44:01 hppavilion[1]: oh found it: "This is the case, for example, with unusually serious offenses, as some excommunicable offenses are reserved to the bishop or even to the Holy See, and their permission to grant absolution would first have to be obtained." 01:44:10 Ah 01:44:44 fizzie: You noted both Hs! 01:44:53 He specifically said to note only one H. 01:46:49 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 01:47:05 hppavilion[2]: previous sentence is "There are limited cases where portions of a confession may be revealed to others, but always with the penitent's permission and always without actually revealing the penitent's identity." 01:47:42 Ah 01:47:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance 01:47:50 (Wait, why'd I disconnect?) 01:48:03 hppavilion[2]: gremlins 01:48:10 Ah 01:48:14 whoa whoa whoa 01:48:14 Was it you, peer? 01:48:25 how can i get excommunicated 01:48:53 hppavilion[2]: it's a bit early to say whether is was peer. 01:49:18 shachaf: well, first you become a roman catholic... 01:49:27 Looks like you get automatically excommunicated for desecration of the eucharist. 01:49:35 If you are heretic (not all belief and stuff according to Roman Catholic) then you are implicitly excommunicated. 01:49:35 That's probably not so hard. 01:50:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:50:10 Ah, I guess heresy is the easiest. 01:50:14 hppavilion[2]: nope, it was Ping this time. 01:50:18 If you are baptized as Roman Catholic then that counts as being Roman Catholic even if you aren't 01:50:42 I would be very surprised to discover that I was baptized as Roman Catholic. 01:50:52 `learn Ping is a Chinese HAXX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. 01:50:55 Learned 'ping': Ping is a Chinese HAXX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. 01:51:24 What? Ping is a duck. 01:51:42 https://www.amazon.com/review/R2VDKZ4X1F992Q 01:52:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:52:47 `slwd ping//s/Chinese/Peking Duck/ 01:52:49 wisdom/ping//Ping is a Peking Duck HAXX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. 01:52:53 shachaf: thx 01:52:55 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:53:12 Ping seems to have a grudge against hppavilion[1] 01:53:31 Does it? 01:53:40 he just caused you to quit again 01:53:46 That was [2] 01:53:51 Oh, it looks like I'm juſt far away from my router 01:54:15 Your long s is not helpful. 01:54:21 I'll just disconnect for now 01:54:31 shachaf: no, Ping got them both 01:54:32 shachaf: Sorry, I try to remove them 01:54:49 (alt+[long s] = s) 01:54:53 Just for you. 01:55:20 Sometimes I think the fundamental theorem of calculus is pretty magical and other times I think it's pretty obvious. 01:55:49 You would think I would have settled into one or the other by now. 01:55:49 `slwd ping//s/A/4/ 01:55:51 wisdom/ping//Ping is a Peking Duck H4XX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. 01:56:24 `? peer 01:56:25 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:57:38 `slwd peer//s#.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# 01:57:41 wisdom/peer//. his reviews are in high demand, buteer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:57:41 oops 01:57:43 `revert 01:57:57 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:57:59 `slwd peer//s#\.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# 01:58:01 wisdom/peer//peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:58:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:02:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:03:26 fizzie: whoa whoa whoa, the author of http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.golf/2002/07/msg1289.html is at aalto.fi 02:16:41 `? synergy 02:16:41 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:16:41 Something is synergetic when it violates the Law of Conservation of Energy by managing to release more energy than is put in. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. 02:17:25 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 02:18:32 `slwd synergy//s/[^.]*/Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts/ 02:18:35 wisdom/synergy//Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. 02:19:56 simplrer is bettrer. 02:20:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:22:08 also, that makes the second part more true, i think. 02:44:26 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:46:44 -!- GnosticShaman has joined. 02:57:10 -!- GnosticShaman has left ("Leaving"). 03:03:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:07:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 03:10:58 -!- augur has joined. 03:17:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:28:48 uncontrolled synergy scenario does sound like a good name for an unfriendly gai foom. 03:30:01 indeed 03:30:37 * oerjan wonders if anyone has started making gai jokes 03:30:38 black swanergy 03:38:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:39:45 dammit i hate gui's whose buttons have incomprehensible symbols without tooltips 03:41:34 twitter in this case. 03:41:50 Which button? 03:43:25 all four of the ones under the individual twits 03:43:51 They have tooltips. 03:44:07 argh? 03:44:30 not in IE :( 03:45:51 Gopher client I wrote for Windows some time ago has icons without tooltips although you can disable the toolbar if you don't like it; keyboard can also be used. 03:55:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:55:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:25:56 -!- FreeFull has quit. 04:47:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:48 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 04:55:30 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:02:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:28 -!- MDude has joined. 06:12:30 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:36:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:53:06 lol IE 06:53:48 * oerjan hits myname with the saucepan ===\__/ 06:58:21 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 06:59:09 why do you punish me for being honest? 07:00:07 If Kevin Bacon were to write a math paper with Paul Erdős (it would obviously have to be on time travel), could you count link-by-math as a bacon number? 07:00:23 hppavilion[2]: no. 07:00:31 "I wrote a paper with someone who wrote a paper with someone who wrote a paper with someone who wrote a paper with Kevin Bacon" 07:01:47 I suppose we could call that an Erdős|Bacon number (not to be confused with an Erdős-Bacon number) 07:03:21 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:03:38 Apparently Einstein's EBS is 11 07:10:19 what's S? 07:10:41 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 07:11:05 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest41851. 07:30:33 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:55:35 -!- Tiktalik has joined. 08:08:12 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:09:48 -!- Akaibu has joined. 08:23:15 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 08:25:55 \oren\: are those actual passwords? not, like, jokes in the email? because I've said lots of random strings like Q4YSPlZZh or non-random strings like password12345 and said they were passwords for something, but that doesn't really make them passwords. 08:31:09 `? oren's font 08:31:10 ​\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 08:32:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:45:49 As for roman numerals, I wish we could get rid of them entirely. Alas, that is unrealistic, so we should get rid of the roman numerals from 24 and above, in the sense of not even teaching them in the school curriculum, and deprecate the roman numerals up to 23. 09:01:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:04:55 \oren\: how much of a font wizard are you? can you make your font provide glyphs for characters composed of a combining accent, especially the accented vowels used in Russian? 09:05:16 For some reason, those don't seem to have precomposed characters in unicode. 09:13:23 shachaf: I think I had one course taught by them. 09:16:59 fizzie: it's a p. good golf 09:24:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:24:04 -!- heroux_ has joined. 09:24:32 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 09:26:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:36:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:06:06 -!- digin4 has joined. 10:08:02 [wiki] [[FuckbeEs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49722&oldid=49710 * Nosomebodies * (+136) 10:11:37 -!- nosomebodies has joined. 10:19:14 anyone? 10:23:48 Yes 10:23:52 `welcome nosomebodies 10:23:53 nosomebodies: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 10:25:10 -!- carado has joined. 10:51:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:51:40 -!- heroux has joined. 11:07:43 `learn Society is a platypus. 11:07:45 Learned 'society': Society is a platypus. 11:18:01 wob_jonas, how so 11:18:26 Taneb: it's a metaphor 11:20:11 I see 11:22:44 `slashlearn society/Society's a platypus. 11:22:45 Relearned «society» 11:23:38 Taneb: it's actually a line from a song from the TV series Phineas and Ferb, S2. It makes slightly more sense in context, but not much. 11:25:14 Ah 11:50:47 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:09:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:10:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:12:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:17:59 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 12:23:23 -!- heroux has joined. 12:54:20 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:03:42 -!- nosomebodies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:07:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:08:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:09:11 -!- super_bender has joined. 13:10:23 -!- super_bender has quit (Changing host). 13:10:23 -!- super_bender has joined. 13:10:40 -!- super_bender has changed nick to bender. 13:10:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:42:46 -!- bender has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:43:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:45:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:59:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:32:22 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:57:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:02:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:46:58 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:50:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:51:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:04:19 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:05:08 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:05:24 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:19:52 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 16:20:24 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:20:34 Tip: dont welcome my bot :P 16:20:52 ok 16:20:53 im working on it, but for now, ill not bother with it in here until it has more functionality 16:21:04 ~>pyc print 1+1 16:21:05 'import site' failed | 2 | 16:21:15 import site failed needs fixed :/ 16:26:47 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:27:00 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:27:35 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:27:50 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:28:11 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:28:40 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:29:02 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:17 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:30:08 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:21 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:30:50 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:31:07 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:39:12 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:45:04 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:49:15 [wiki] [[Binary combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49723&oldid=45025 * Nthern * (-39) Just because the phrase "Rewriting rules" appears in the semantics description, does NOT make this a String-rewriting paradigm language 16:51:39 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:02:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:15:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:23:37 -!- Froox has joined. 17:25:24 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:27:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:29:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:33:22 -!- Guest41851 has quit (Changing host). 17:33:22 -!- Guest41851 has joined. 17:33:25 -!- Guest41851 has changed nick to JX7P. 17:42:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:44:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:51:16 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:52:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:00:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:07:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:11:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:15:35 Hm... 18:16:12 Bacon Numbers are calculated through a method of finding the smallest link 18:16:21 But Kevin Bacon, somehow, has a Bacon Number of 0 18:16:31 Perhaps the process should be refined to account for /number/ of links 18:17:06 (If you have Bcn = k through p distinct chains, your bacon number should be smaller, and Kevin Bacons should be zero) 18:18:18 I propose that you find the minimum bacon number through /all/ distinct chains (count p), then multiply the resulting number by (m-p)/m, where m is the number of movies Kevin Bacon is credited in 18:18:38 Since all movies with Kevin Bacon also star Kevin Bacon, m-p = 0, and therefor Kevin Bacon's bacon number is 0 18:20:42 (two chains are distinct if the sets of all people that aren't Kevin Bacon or the Target in each chain are disjoint) 18:20:53 -!- Khali has joined. 18:21:55 -!- Khali has quit (Quit: Khali). 18:22:21 (Wait, but this means that someone who has never been in a film with Kevin Bacon can have a number of 0, or that some non-baconic individual who has costarred with Kevin Bacon in every film he was in has a bacon number of 0... shit...) 18:28:08 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:32:25 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:33:22 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:34:04 -!- Froox has joined. 18:49:27 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 18:52:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:52:58 `olist 1052 18:52:59 olist 1052: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 18:53:44 I made a new autogram, one which can be /translated/ 18:53:47 "This sentence contains letters." 18:54:39 what about a non-alphabetical writing system? 18:57:23 ~>pyc print 1+1 18:57:24 'import site' failed | 2 | 18:57:26 Good 18:57:32 wait darn 19:02:28 nortti: Replace "letters" with whatever that language uses 19:02:38 "This sentence contains pictographs" 19:06:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:06:41 -!- augur has joined. 19:14:45 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:18:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:23:58 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:25:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:30:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:31:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:32:36 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:46:12 <\oren\> ~> echo hello 19:46:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:49:54 Adoption is weird... 19:50:36 My little sister (let's call her samsung[2]) is adopted 19:50:45 But we're constantly forgetting we can't apply genetics to her 19:51:12 I think at one point I said she'll probably need glasses because both of our parents did with a completely straight face 19:51:47 But we don't even have an excuse to forget that that doesn't work (e.g. she looks like she could be genetically related), because she's /Chinese/ 19:52:22 (ftr: I do consider her actually my sister, but when talking genetics it would just be wrong to keep that consideration) 19:53:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:56:25 hpp: meh, eye acucity problems are so frequent these days that it's quite correct to say to any child that he might need glasses some day, and to send them on ophtalmological control exams occasionally, regardless their genetics. 19:56:58 and as a bonus, that also tests for some other eye problems not related to acute vision 19:57:33 coordination of the two eyes together and color vision problems being the most frequent 19:57:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:57:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:52 the genetics does matter for some conditions, but it's not all 20:13:16 I need to book an eyetest... 20:13:26 It's been a while since I've had one, and I lost my glasses 20:16:23 i always thought that eye exams were "scheduled" while shows and vacations are "booked" 20:17:08 I book one when I notice my glasses not working as well as they did a while ago 20:17:16 quintopia, booking something and scheduling something have different semantics to me 20:17:28 hmm, to me they are similar 20:17:36 Taneb: do please demonstrate 20:17:38 Like, if you schedule something, it's all parties marking the dates in the calendar 20:18:02 Like, I can schedule my holiday to be in April but I haven't decided where I'll go 20:18:06 ...which is how eye exams work 20:18:23 I need to book an appointment, which will then be scheduled 20:18:44 Booking is more asking for the use of a service to be scheduled 20:18:47 but you can't schedule an appointment that will then be booked 20:18:48 So they're related 20:19:04 But definitely distinct 20:19:05 Exactly 20:19:24 Unless I was an optician planning when I wanted to work, but it's still an awkward sentence to me 20:21:11 everyone in the u.s. schedules eye exams. you call and talk to someone and you write it down together. or you talk to someone before you leave from the last one and they email you when it's coming up 20:21:54 I never went for my follow-up appointment. 20:27:08 I currently do not need an eye test scheduled. Unless there's an unforseen problem, I'll probably only book a meeting with my ophtalmologist following a meeting with my optometrician in 2017 spring. 20:40:33 -!- augur has joined. 20:45:42 my new eyes have demonstrated no problems in the last 6 months. i had an exam in june, and then the opthalmologist moved to CA. i have another free one i can take ... soon. 20:46:02 new eyes? 20:46:32 i got laser eyes installed in march 20:46:52 ah 20:52:54 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:10 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:53:52 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:07 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:54:24 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:41 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:55:21 someone give me a 2 to 4 char something thats invalid in sed 20:55:31 -!- Kaynato has joined. 20:56:37 moonythedwarf: pk 20:57:07 @ 20:57:12 ah, two to four 20:57:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:57:18 @@? 20:58:35 ~>regex @ /\/ abc 20:58:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `@' | 20:58:50 ~>regex s/@/ /g /\/ abc@@ 20:58:51 sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unknown option to `s' | 20:58:59 ~>regex s/\@/ /g /\/ abc@@ 20:58:59 sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s' | 20:59:23 kk 20:59:26 try a semicolon instead of a space for gnu sed 20:59:33 moonythedwarf: ^ 20:59:40 ~>regex s/\@/;/g /\/ abc@@ 20:59:40 sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s' | 20:59:44 ~>regex s/@/;/g /\/ abc@@ 20:59:44 sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unknown option to `s' | 20:59:46 no no, the other space 20:59:51 the one between commands 21:00:00 /\/ is the breaker 21:00:06 seperates text and cmd 21:00:10 in sed, you separate commands with a line feed normally, but gnu sed also allows a semicolon, which is a very useful extension 21:01:33 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:01:50 -!- Kobalt has joined. 21:02:13 ~>regex s/@/ /g;/\/ abc@@ 21:02:20 ~>sed s/@/ /g;/\/ abc@@ 21:02:21 sed: -e expression #1, char 17: unterminated address regex | 21:02:29 ~>sed s/@/ /g; /\/ abc@@ 21:02:29 sed: -e expression #1, char 18: unterminated address regex | 21:02:37 ~>sed s/\@/ /g;/\/ abc@@ 21:02:38 sed: -e expression #1, char 18: unterminated address regex | 21:02:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:02:53 hi Phantom_Hoover 21:03:52 ``` sed 'ahello, world' 21:03:59 ``` sed '0ahello, world' /dev/null 21:04:00 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: invalid usage of line address 0 21:04:08 ``` sed '1ahello, world' /dev/null 21:04:09 No output. 21:04:12 ``` sed '0ahello, world' /dev/null 21:04:12 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: invalid usage of line address 0 21:04:23 No output. 21:04:30 what? why would 0 be an invalid address for the a command? 21:04:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:04:39 ``` sed '0ahello, world' <<<$'one\ntwo\nthree' 21:04:40 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: invalid usage of line address 0 21:04:45 ``` sed '1ahello, world' <<<$'one\ntwo\nthree' 21:04:46 one \ hello, world \ two \ three 21:04:47 [wiki] [[Fourier]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49724&oldid=49647 * Beta-Decay * (-17) 21:05:55 nah, sed is dumb, just use perl 21:06:19 lol 21:06:25 ill look into a sandbox for that :P 21:06:35 Kobalt is not just running in here :P 21:07:11 ~> sed 0s//hello, world/ 21:07:31 ~>sed 0s//hello, world/ /\/ 21:07:31 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: invalid usage of line address 0 | 21:07:36 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/ /\/ 21:07:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 19: unknown option to `s' | 21:07:42 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/; /\/k 21:07:42 sed: -e expression #1, char 23: unterminated address regex | 21:07:56 the thing was wrong 21:08:01 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/;/\/k 21:08:02 sed: -e expression #1, char 22: unterminated address regex | 21:08:02 i unconsiously swapped it 21:08:08 its \/\ thats the seperator 21:08:25 what? that's even worse 21:08:33 um, well, not really worse 21:08:38 but equally bad 21:08:43 have a better one? (= 21:08:58 try something that can't appear at the start of a sed command? 21:09:04 or how about ;; 21:09:22 that 21:09:22 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/;\/\k 21:09:23 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression | 21:09:26 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/\/\k 21:09:26 that'll work 21:09:27 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression | 21:09:29 leme change it 21:09:36 ~>sed 1s/^/hello, world/\/\k 21:09:36 hello, worldk 21:09:44 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:10:00 -!- Kobalt has joined. 21:10:03 now its ;; 21:10:07 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/;; 21:10:26 *nothing* 21:10:44 ~>sed 1s//hello, world/;;k 21:10:45 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression | 21:10:50 ~>sed 1s/^/hello, world/;;k 21:10:50 hello, worldk 21:12:38 ~>sed 1s/^/df/;e;;k 21:12:39 sh: 1: dfk: not found | 21:12:44 ~>sed 1s/.*/df/;e;;k 21:12:45 Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on | none 2234668 348268 1751284 17% / | tmpfs 26797776 0 26797776 0% /dev | shm 65536 0 65536 0% /dev/shm | tmpfs 26797776 0 26797776 0% /sys/fs/cgroup | /dev/mapper/volg1-lvdata 1496439344 1085952040 410470920 73% /mnt 21:12:53 ~>sed 1s/.*/mount/;e;;k 21:12:53 none on / type aufs (rw,relatime,si=a03d3f5c2963886,dio,dirperm1) | proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) | tmpfs on /dev type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,mode=755) | devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=666) | shm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=65536k) | mqueue on /dev/mqueue type mqueue (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) | sysfs on /sys type sysfs 21:12:54 on /sys/fs/cgroup type 21:14:09 ? 21:14:16 is that a exploit. 21:14:22 because this is called directly, now shell 21:14:24 how? 21:14:30 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:14:37 *no 21:14:54 wob_jonas: pls explain 21:15:11 moonythedwarf: sed can invoke the shell 21:15:16 oh 21:15:18 :/ 21:15:29 *runs off to make a custom compiled version 21:15:31 * 21:15:53 ~>sed e;;curl http://dpaste.com/1NZ0K16.txt 21:16:10 ~>ping hi 21:16:10 killed bot. 21:16:22 ah right 21:16:24 not booting it until im done with this or i fail and remove it 21:17:34 can i have a link to the src? 21:17:41 I mean, come on, sed has commands to write to arbitrary files. You practically don't even need the shell command for it to be unsafe on uncontrolled commands, because you can write to ~/.bashrc or some other trusted file 21:17:52 moonythedwarf: which version? GNU sed? 21:17:55 GNU 21:18:02 im going to go on a purgefest 21:18:06 a moment 21:18:28 kthx 21:18:34 https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/sed/sed-4.2.2.tar.gz probably 21:19:25 (see mirror list of ftp.gnu.org at www.gnu.org/order/ftp.html in case you want to download lots of stuff from there, which isn't the case for sed) 21:19:42 https://www.gnu.org/software/sed/ is the homepage 21:39:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:47:28 -!- augur has joined. 22:06:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:09:53 -!- augur has joined. 22:10:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:31:26 wob_jonas: whats the command to run commands? 22:31:45 nvm 22:36:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:44:20 in pokemon games, potion restores 20 hp and fresh water restores 50 22:44:22 discuss 22:46:16 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:46:16 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:46:16 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:46:42 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:46:42 -!- cnr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:46:42 -!- xfix has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:47:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:47:12 -!- xfix has joined. 22:48:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:50:52 -!- ocharles has joined. 22:50:53 -!- dingbat has joined. 22:51:56 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 22:52:07 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:52:13 -!- cnr has joined. 22:54:17 -!- lynn has joined. 22:54:40 -!- lynn has changed nick to Guest42838. 22:57:40 -!- Guest42838 has quit (Client Quit). 23:02:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:21 -!- Guest42838 has joined. 23:06:46 -!- Guest42838 has changed nick to lynn. 23:06:56 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 23:06:56 -!- lynn has joined. 23:06:56 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 23:06:56 -!- lynn has joined. 23:18:56 -!- augur has joined. 23:22:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:23:07 "Bibimbap" is a funny word. 23:27:14 -!- jones_mcdolovan has joined. 23:27:37 -!- jones_mcdolovan has quit (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org). 23:30:47 I've heard of that but haven't tried it yet 23:31:51 Is that like a bi-map but with an extra bi-directionality? 23:36:18 If it didn't have that third 'b', sure. 23:36:23 As it is, it's a Korean dish. 23:36:41 (We went to http://bibimbapsoho.co.uk/ today.) 23:36:55 ah 23:36:58 `? bibimbap 23:36:59 bibimbap? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:38:18 fizzie: There's this Korean food place right next to Google MTV. But it looks like it doesn't have bibimbap. 23:38:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:39:01 whoa whoa whoa 23:39:11 I was going to mention https://www.yelp.com/biz/ginseng-bbq-and-tofu-house-mountain-view-2 but apparently it's closed. 23:39:40 I've probably walked past that place. 23:40:26 -!- heroux_ has joined. 23:40:29 shachaf: As far as I can tell, it's now http://www.grillstory.com/ 23:40:40 "The Grill Story (formerly Ginseng) serves the best Korean BBQ at the table grill." 23:40:56 fizzie: Oh, so it's still a similar place. 23:41:02 They also do have bibimbap in the to-go menu. 23:41:15 I like the spellcheck underlines in http://www.grillstory.com/menu.html 23:41:36 The only thing I ate there was the mushroom tofu stew, I think. 23:41:38 But it was good. 23:42:00 I didn't realize you can get the regular menu by clicking on "menu", I thought only the menus in the drop-down menu are things. 23:42:00 @google bim bam bom 23:42:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcv2x2Vh5Mo 23:42:41 Oh, the "togo" menu doesn't have the underlines. 23:43:14 -!- heroux_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:43:17 It's still in images, but they found out how to turn off spell checking. 23:43:44 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:21 -!- heroux has joined. 23:46:55 (I ate at an "Asian Box" in Mountain View.) 23:50:46 On Castro? 23:51:15 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:56:06 Yes. 23:58:48 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 2016-09-16: 00:10:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:13:52 Bibimbap is pretty tasty. 00:14:27 @google bim bam bom hebrew 00:14:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lLGmRj3_MA 00:18:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:23:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:26:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:26:58 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( What's the opposite of red tape? 00:27:10 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( +) ) 00:35:57 I think the "Europe and Asia or Eurasia" debate should be settled by saying Eurasia is a continent, but having a separate term describing a cultural mass 00:36:28 (Europe is separate from Asia in this system, and so are the Middle East and India) 00:37:12 Asia is a continent, and Europe is a peninsula. 00:37:40 shachaf: Then where's the UK? 00:37:56 A kingdom. 00:38:19 Also, no it isn't, the called "Europe" is clearly more than a peninsula 00:39:33 (There's a bizarre model that is still taught in some places (most notably France, Italy, and Spain) that claims there are 6 continents) 00:39:52 (They are: Europe, Asia, Australia, Antarctica, Africa, and America) 00:40:07 hppavilion[1]: you have read wikipedia's article on Continent, right? 00:40:16 oerjan: I'm in it right now 00:40:22 figures. 00:40:34 oerjan: Why? 00:41:41 i didn't say _i_ had read it hth 00:41:59 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:42:45 * oerjan ponders if he should think before speaking 00:43:06 otoh that is boring. otth... 00:43:16 otuh 00:44:40 otooh... 00:45:03 hppavilion[1]: if we have a separate term describing cultural mass, where does that put russia and some of its neighbors? 00:45:40 we could compromise and say europe is a pencontinent 00:45:45 oerjan: Either in Europe (a name which will be adopted as distinct from Eurasia) or split between Europe and Asia, depending on how Russia works 00:46:12 I don't actually understand russia 00:46:41 “Let social purpose hang itself unhindered! No- I mean, literature can replace, can actually become… Russia!” 00:46:46 That's not the quote I was looking for. 00:46:50 hppavilion[1]: i'm thinking that russia might need to be a third one 00:46:54 But I can't find the one I was looking for on that page. 00:47:01 oerjan: Perhaps 00:47:07 they're certainly acting like they're trying to be 00:47:13 (third? Won't there be, like, 10?) 00:47:21 Asia is the parts of the former Asia that aren't India or Stanic 00:47:37 hppavilion[1]: i mean beyond asia and europe. although of course asia needs further breakup. 00:47:41 Ah 00:48:07 Africa is divided around the middle (apparently) and Brazil is separate from the rest of South America 00:48:12 and stanic ... does that include _all_ the muslim countries in the middle? 00:48:20 oerjan: No, just the middle east 00:48:27 You aren't counting Russia as part of Asia? 00:48:29 Or anywhere like it 00:48:36 shachaf: oerjan recommends I don't 00:48:43 I was talking to oerjan. 00:48:47 hppavilion[1]: the middle east isn't the part that has countries named -stan 00:48:54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Hn1rPQouU 100% accurate 00:49:34 shachaf: i'm speaking about hppavilion[1]'s cultural division idea. russia is certainly not asian, and probably not european by that measure. 00:49:40 (We must be careful though; Scandinavia is still in Europe, but further divisions will separate it (except finland)) 00:49:43 oerjan: Oh, huh 00:50:18 That's not the quote I was looking for. <-- i believe you. 00:50:24 Well, the Middle East is its own area (and probably includes Egypt, honestly) separate from the main Asia (which also excludes India) 00:50:58 I would make such a good racist... 00:51:11 Unfortunately, I'm not. :( 00:54:10 (A radical Muslim would be referred to as an "orthodox muslim"; when talking about countries allowing certain Muslimy traditions (to any extent; Sharia Law is implied as the endpoint, but just letting them leave their classes to pray 2-3 times a day (depending on when the rules say they must and the school schedule) will be referred to as "[country name]-stan"- e.g. Americastan, Francestan, Germanystan, United Kingdom of Great Britain 00:54:10 and Northern Irelandstan) 01:08:04 hppavilion[1]: Never mind that permitting such prayers would probably fall more under 1st amendment rights than anything else (... in the US) 01:08:10 But, y'know. Racism. 01:17:09 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is it possible to make a Cesar Cipher with a non-integer key? ) 01:17:41 2.5 = 5/2. You alternate between a shift of 2 and a shift of 3, I guess. 01:20:40 Oooh, atbash('holy') = 'slob' 01:21:11 OMG, atbash('wizard') = 'draziw' 01:21:20 This is the best thing ever 01:22:01 wat 01:25:41 Perhaps the process should be refined to account for /number/ of links <-- iirc that's been done for erdős 01:26:01 oerjan: Oh 01:26:03 with 1/n. but only for the first step. 01:27:32 oerjan: It should account for how many papers have been written by him- sure, erdős is dead /now/ (for now), but if you apply the erdős distancing function ő(a, b), a and b might both still be alive 01:31:47 so, my dwarfs can now cut down trees, collect resulting wood and make barrels in workshops 01:35:28 but can they love 01:35:43 also, i forgot what skill is connected with actually build workshops in df 01:35:47 not yet 01:42:32 izalove: No, myname isn't running the nightlies 01:42:57 aww 01:43:37 Is there such thing as cryptographic steganography? Where you encrypt two messages into one, in such a way that message A can be broken in a way that looks real, but message B (which is slightly harder to break) is a separate message discretely encoded into message A? 01:43:52 I suppose you could do it with case or something... 01:45:09 But only if it isn't on a computer; if the person who breaks it would have to be doing it by hand 01:46:18 Encrypt your main message using Caesar #2, capitalize and decapitalize the letters in output to encode your secreter message in quintets (caps = 1, uncaps = 0) 01:46:56 Even better, switch between typographic variants while doing this. single-story a = 0, double-story = 1 01:48:05 hpp: my only real take at steganography is http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=877696 01:48:15 Ah 01:49:24 (Oooh, or obsolete-cypher cypher; Vingere a long mess of garbage using the message, and the other person breaks it the usual way, discards the message and just reads the key) 01:56:26 ``` sed '1itest' /dev/null 01:56:28 No output. 01:56:38 why 01:56:41 huh 01:56:44 what did you expect? 01:56:55 izalove: who are you talking to 01:56:58 you 01:57:35 izalove: i was looking at wob_jonas's experiments in the log, and wondering if sed provides at _all_ any way of adding something to an empty file 01:58:17 -!- teuchter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:58:36 it seems to me that you cannot apply any command if there isn't an already existing line for it to act on 01:58:48 obviously 01:59:22 which is rather stupid if you wanted to, say, unconditionally add a prefix 02:00:36 oerjan: I think it does, yes. try the i command for that. 02:00:46 or maybe not... wait 02:00:58 let me read the manual 02:02:09 oerjna: dunno, maybe it doesn't 02:05:01 `` sed 'itest' << test \ hello 02:05:07 Interesting 02:10:48 `` sed '$itest' /dev/null 02:10:49 No output. 02:10:56 `` sed '0,$itest' /dev/null 02:10:56 sed: -e expression #1, char 4: invalid usage of line address 0 02:11:02 `` sed '1,$itest' /dev/null 02:11:03 No output. 02:11:16 `` sed '1,$itest' << test \ hello 02:15:25 you're not grokking sed 02:15:38 1itest means when you read line 1, do i test 02:15:49 (Apparently the Polybius square for English usually merges I and J. Much better would be to drop W and make people use 'vv' 02:15:50 line 1 was never read so it's never executed 02:15:57 same for $itest 02:16:28 0,$ 0 only works for 0,/regex/ 02:16:32 izalove: it's not about grokking sed, i understand why it does it. 02:16:58 ah i see, then you're just trying stupid things that you know are not gonna work 02:17:01 for reasons 02:17:12 izalove: i just think it is stupid that sed _has_ no way of doing this. 02:17:23 why 02:17:28 it's a stream editor 02:17:34 how do you edit a stream if you have no stream? 02:18:03 izalove: because sed allows appending and inserting data, and unless the file is empty you can _easily_ do it at the beginning or end of it. 02:18:19 you can only apply commands for each line read, so if you read no line you obviously can't apply commands 02:19:12 izalove: you are thinking in a "this is why sed's logic implies this" way, not a "why would anyone _want_ sed's logic to work like this" way. 02:19:40 i understand why you would want to do it but that's not how sed works 02:20:01 izalove: you seem to be repeating what oerjan said 02:20:01 sed works line by line and you can only apply commands on those lines 02:20:29 why are you siding with the stupid one 02:20:33 * oerjan swats izalove -----### 02:20:43 izalove: because it is your way of thinking that is stupid. 02:22:47 you're confusing $ for something to do at the end of the file, so you're expecting sed to have a similar symbol for something to do at the beginning of the file 02:22:51 * oerjan should not swat when frustrated. sorry. 02:22:53 but $ is for the last line 02:23:04 izalove: i'm not confusing anything. 02:23:29 izalove: i am saying that sed would be a better program if it followed a slightly more user-friendly interpretation. 02:23:50 hello 02:23:52 oerjan: no, no, you don't understand. sed doesn't do what you're saying you wish it did. your wish is wrong. 02:23:55 hth 02:24:00 oerjan: ok think of sed actions as foreach (line for which this expression is true) { dothing } 02:24:07 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 02:24:25 oerjan: think of sed as a program that doesn't do what you want. 02:24:31 now do you see why it doesn't do what you want? 02:25:04 oerjan: why don't you make a patch to gnu sed that lets you use 0 as an address to run commands before the first line is read, so that there's a zeroth cycle that also ends with emptying or printing the pattern space like normal cycles? 02:25:06 now think of every program as a program that doesn't do what you want 02:25:16 now does *everything* make more sense? 02:25:16 oerjan: you wouldn't expect a foreach to execute actions if there's no line, right? 02:25:24 quintopia: darn, you're right! 02:25:31 you guys are all stupid 02:26:08 izalove: no, you're just fixating on your interpretation of the situation. 02:26:18 it's the right interpretation 02:26:31 perhaps oerjan is too left-leaning for you 02:26:41 * oerjan topples over 02:33:09 this forbes article about target's data mining and advertising is quite interesting 02:35:14 `` (echo hi; echo there; echo counterexample) | sed '1,2cwhoops...' 02:35:15 whoops... \ counterexample 02:35:30 izalove: your explanation needs work hth hth ;) 02:35:41 oops 02:35:44 oerjan: your hthing needs work hth hth 02:35:47 *-hth 02:35:56 i like it when he uses two 02:36:59 oerjan: idiot 02:37:24 izalove: jerk 02:37:28 izalove: hm? i'm just saying that doesn't work like your foreach interpretation 02:37:28 fair 02:38:21 `` (echo hi; echo there; echo counterexample) | sed '1,2ithis one i dunno what it will do' 02:38:22 this one i dunno what it will do \ hi \ this one i dunno what it will do \ there \ counterexample 02:38:47 i suppose that fits. 02:38:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:02 so c may be the only counterexample. 02:42:42 `? oerjan 02:42:43 Your mysterious helpful œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 02:43:01 * oerjan thinks better of it 02:43:21 Who was your new arch-nemesis? 02:43:22 Oh, right. 02:43:42 i have a new arch-nemesis? 02:43:59 Yes, one with many names. 02:44:00 i'm considering neil degrasse tyson hth 02:44:49 (but only because the only video i've bothered watching by him was so obviously strawman fighting) 02:46:11 was it http://i.imgur.com/brDnLIg.webm 02:46:32 my browser won't open that 02:46:38 why not 02:46:47 what if you replace the last four characters witth gifv 02:46:51 or with gif 02:47:20 i'll just chop it off 02:47:35 or that 02:48:59 OKAY 02:49:30 look 02:49:32 * oerjan needs to calm down. also, food -> 02:49:45 oerjan: can you photograph a pooch while you're away 02:49:48 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:49:57 no, for at least two reasons. 02:50:25 what are the reasons 02:50:29 actually, three 02:51:17 elaborate 02:51:25 (1) i don't have a camera (2) there aren't any pooches around at this time (3) it would be too dark... oh wait, flash. i don't have a flash either. 02:51:43 no pooches? 02:51:44 come on 02:51:57 point (3) applies even for the inconvenient option of bringing my laptop outside 02:51:59 just go outside and knock on some doors until you find someone with a pooch 02:52:35 many phones have built-in cameras nowadays 02:52:38 maybe you have one of those 02:52:49 i don't think so. i worked too hard on making my next door neighbors care enough to keep theirs silent hth 02:52:54 nope 02:54:05 what's this? why do you need to photograph a pooch? 02:54:15 ask shachaf 02:54:22 while i'm getting food 02:54:47 oerjan: what food are you getting 02:59:25 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:59:35 Oh my god 03:00:22 'vacc-' is latin for 'cow' 03:00:30 "consider a spherical cow in a vacuum" 03:01:04 (I mean, 'vac-' is Latin for "empty", but that's probably unrelated) 03:01:25 svacc 03:10:06 shachaf: bread 03:10:39 shachaf: are you saying his argument is weak (svak in norwegian) 03:10:48 i'm saying it's scow 03:11:04 ah. 03:11:05 sku 03:11:10 `? scow 03:11:11 Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. 03:16:07 `? HackEgo 03:16:08 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! 03:16:18 `? Elronnd 03:16:19 Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something. 03:16:28 `cwlprits Elronnd 03:16:31 No output. 03:16:33 oopse 03:16:36 `cwlprits elronnd 03:16:38 oerjan Elronnd oerjan Elronnd Elronnd 03:16:47 `dowg elronnd 03:16:49 2016-01-11 learn Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something. \ 2016-01-08 learn Elronnd ... \ 2015-12-20 ` rm wisdom/{elronnd,b_jonas} \ 2015-12-19 learn Elronnd *definitely* esoteric \ 2015-12-19 learn Elronnd *Definitely* esoteric 03:17:00 `rainwords Elronnd 03:17:02 ​Elronnd 03:17:11 `rainwords HackEgo you done a good job 03:17:12 ​HackEgo you done a good job 03:26:17 in pokemon games, potion restores 20 hp and fresh water restores 50 <-- obviously their medicine is based on homeopathy hth 03:26:37 still mad at you 03:26:53 * oerjan offers icecream 03:26:58 ok 03:27:04 that works 03:27:07 oerjan: please, what kind of ice cream are you offering 03:27:09 how do i get it 03:27:23 shachaf: step 1: be mad at oerjan 03:27:30 oerjan is too good 03:27:38 oerjan++ 03:27:43 shachaf: dark chocolate 03:27:51 scow 03:27:57 i don't like chocolate ice cream 03:28:03 and i don't really like dark chocolate 03:28:03 *MWAHAHAHA* 03:28:14 whoa 03:28:15 My token non-binary lesbian friend is currently playing Pokemon and was asking me what e should do. I know nothing at all about pokemon. 03:28:17 you really are evil 03:28:18 `? oerjan 03:28:19 Your mysterious helpful œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:28:22 * oerjan gives shachaf a pistacchio one 03:28:31 oerjan: please, where can i get it 03:28:46 *-c 03:29:14 `slwd oerjan//s#helpful œ#evil o# 03:29:17 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil overlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:29:43 shiny 03:32:48 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:34:01 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 03:34:25 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest13447. 03:52:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:55:21 shachaf: i don't know if diplom-is delivers to california, alas 03:56:11 oerjan: Can you find out? 03:57:14 (of course you haven't noticed my evil scheme yet...) 03:58:19 Which scheme? 03:59:01 the fact that the pistachio is covered in dark chocolate hth https://www.diplom-is.no/produkter/royal-pistasj1 03:59:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:00:05 Oh, that's fine. 04:00:12 That's not chocolate ice cream. 04:00:22 ah 04:00:26 And I probably don't mind dark chocolate in that form. 04:00:34 You should send me some so I can find out. 04:00:54 i don't think i can do that 04:01:04 Why not? 04:03:42 (1) it needs to be kept frozen (2) mental issues 04:04:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:05:02 Which issues? 04:05:06 The kind that it's rude to ask about? 04:05:42 obviously. 04:08:13 anyway, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistachio_ice_cream lists some american companies 04:13:42 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:29:22 Obviously I'm interested in Norwegian ice cream. 04:30:00 And none of those seem to have dark chocolate, anyway. 04:30:51 norwegian ice cream is quite good 04:31:05 `? shachaf 04:31:09 Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. 04:32:04 sprø som pistasj iskrem 04:32:23 there's a good company near where I used to live 04:32:30 very good, although drop the last space 04:33:31 "tolive" is invalid english hth 04:33:49 * oerjan swats shachaf-----### 04:36:07 Oh, I get it. 04:36:13 "sprø" means crunchy 04:36:17 But also crazy 04:36:24 So it's a pun, because celery is crunchy 04:36:27 shachaf: why do you hate bell peppers 04:36:35 alercah: so many reasos 04:36:38 n 04:36:51 pistasjiskrem isn't very crunchy at all 04:37:45 Pistachios, on the other hand... 04:38:24 shachaf: well the one you're pining for includes some nut pieces 04:38:34 oh 04:38:38 and also the chocolate 04:38:48 so what you're saying is, not very sprø at all? 04:38:57 mildly sprø? 04:39:14 Was my assessment of the pun correct? 04:39:22 is sprø the opposite of scow? 04:40:09 probably not. prø isn't the opposite of cow. 04:40:24 hmm maybe there's a triangle 04:40:33 prø-cow-??? 04:40:44 gnition 04:40:49 clearly gnition. 04:41:16 clearly I am not as educated in these arts as you 04:41:44 shachaf: you've assessed well. 04:42:37 Why does everyone know all these languages? 04:42:38 shachaf: btw i didn't invent that pun, norwegians actually use it. 04:42:42 * Elronnd only knows 2.6 languages 04:42:43 oerjan: I know. 04:42:46 A cow is the dual of a w, obviously. 04:43:11 There are many vegetabel colloquialisms that are difficult to translate. 04:43:23 In Hebrew people say "nonsense in tomato juice" 04:43:30 Which actually isn't a good example because it's not a pun. 04:43:50 it rhymes nicely, though 04:43:55 Yes. 04:44:03 a scow is the dual of a wino. 04:44:07 approximate translitteration: shtuyot be mits 04:44:12 agvanyot 04:44:38 What are other vegetable colloquialisms? 04:44:46 I know there are more but it's hard to think of them. 04:45:11 potato 04:45:17 (also in hebrew) 04:45:26 ? 04:45:52 you never heard that one? 04:46:08 oerjan: I've been informed that "shachaf sprø som selleri" is iggrammatical. 04:46:13 Missing an "er". 04:47:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:48:14 shachaf: it was adapted from a previous version that was also iggrammatical hth 04:48:46 What was the previous version? 04:49:03 "shachaf mad" hth 04:49:17 * oerjan whistles innocently 04:50:21 what's iggrammatical 04:50:35 it's the opposite of grammatical hth 04:50:58 that would be ungrammatical 04:51:24 * oerjan looks at Elronnd like he's sprø som selleri 04:51:27 iggrammatical is iggrammatical 04:51:30 but pointing that out is not very insightful 04:51:44 s/insightful/iggrammatical/g 04:51:46 some people do it reflexively 04:51:49 is it, really? isn't it more immorphological. 05:04:47 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:07:42 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:13:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:34:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:38:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:10:28 clippy in freefall is going to need to sort out some things... 06:18:01 in girl genius, grandma is one confident lady. 06:19:40 Yep, Clippy is quite confused at present. 06:33:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:34:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:46:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:48:53 -!- carado has joined. 07:05:16 -!- trn has joined. 07:15:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:25:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:32:44 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:40:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:45:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:52:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:56:57 -!- augur has joined. 07:59:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-H1LddWxo8 08:05:48 Apparently, there used to be an idiom "The only people who stay dead in comics are Bucky, Jason Todd, and Uncle Ben." 08:05:57 Bucky and Jason Todd were both brought back in 2005 08:07:50 Did... they bring back the Waynes? 08:10:32 pikhq: Probably at some point 08:10:37 But do they even really count as characters? 08:10:45 They're more of a backstory plot device 08:10:51 Well, no, they are just plot devices. 08:11:23 (Think, what do you know about Batman's parents? They died... usually after seeing Zorro... and that's it) 08:11:57 (Usually it was an assassination set up to look like a mugging gone awry?) 08:13:11 This is my proposed API of SQLite to use with a JavaScript code http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/sqlite_js and I hope this would be better than the existing packages for SQLite on JavaScript. But, I wouldn't know how because I don't know C++ programming 08:13:46 Isn't SQLite pure C? 08:14:18 Yes 08:14:33 However, Node.js extension are written with C++ 08:14:48 Grumble. 08:15:28 The asynchronous stuff I wrote might be wrong though and might need to be changed if the way I currently wrote it won't work very well. 09:11:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:17:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:45:54 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:46:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:01:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 10:14:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:16:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Talideon * New user account 11:35:14 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49725&oldid=49721 * Talideon * (+191) /* Introductions */ 11:38:17 [wiki] [[User:Talideon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49726 * Talideon * (+313) Created page with "Hello! My name's Keith Gaughan. I mirror some esolang-related content: * [https://mirrors.talideon.com/articles/qbal/ Q-BAL] - I really ought to write an implementation of t..." 11:38:29 [wiki] [[Dis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49727&oldid=46482 * Talideon * (+133) /* External resources */ Add a specification mirror link. 11:53:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 11:57:05 "(Think, what do you know about Batman's parents? They died... usually after seeing Zorro... and that's it)" => oh, like Doctor Sarton 13:01:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:08:47 -!- sewilton has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:09:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:15:52 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 13:24:58 -!- Guest13447 has quit (Changing host). 13:24:58 -!- Guest13447 has joined. 13:25:01 -!- Guest13447 has changed nick to JX7P. 13:38:34 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:40:01 -!- Kobalt has joined. 13:40:30 ~>pyc print 1+1 13:40:32 'import site' failed | 2 | 13:49:25 -!- digin4 has joined. 13:56:22 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:56:39 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:31:22 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:39:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:54:03 -!- sewilton has joined. 15:27:46 -!- j-bot has joined. 15:36:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:36:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:38:23 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:46:37 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:47:32 -!- Kobalt has joined. 15:52:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:55:42 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:55:57 -!- Kobalt has joined. 15:57:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:59:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:03:14 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:08:53 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:09:09 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:11:30 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:46 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:11:52 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: when is your bot going to do anything? 16:12:15 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:14 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:13:22 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:40 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:13:49 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:54 well the bot is going relatively slowly atm 16:14:08 although if it's quitjoinspamming and there isn't a human attending it, it should probably be tested in a channel of its own 16:14:16 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:14:17 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:14:50 \oren\: how long has it been doing that? 16:15:10 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:15:45 <\oren\> only since half an hour ago by my scrollup 16:15:58 right 16:16:08 let's give it a while to do something more interesting before it gets banned 16:16:42 <\oren\> the frequency is about one every 4 minutes anyway 16:16:57 that's comparable to pingout timing 16:16:57 <\oren\> on average 16:17:03 maybe it doesn't know how to handle the ping from the server 16:17:14 and sends a quit rather than a pong 16:17:15 <\oren\> possibly. 16:17:38 <\oren\> My bot is irssi based, so it doesn't have to handle any of that stuff 16:17:54 Sorry, im fixing a few bugs. 16:17:59 code changed 16:18:07 <\oren\> oh, so you're rebooting it 16:18:11 <\oren\> i see 16:18:22 yea. its design is not exactly reload friendly 16:18:31 may try childprocesses later 16:19:10 right, if there's a human behind it 16:19:17 the joinspam is less of a problem 16:19:52 ~>pyc while True: print 1+1 # _Should_ no longer let processes run rampant 16:19:53 it can be easier to test it in a channel of your own, though, both because you don't spam the channel as much and because other people don't say things and interrupt your tests 16:19:54 'import site' failed | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 16:19:54 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 16:19:58 <\oren\> irssi can reload a script without unjoining 16:20:14 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:20:19 <\oren\> or whatever the tchincal word im looking for it 16:20:23 True ais523 16:20:41 im going to implent childprocess based commands for the next update. :P 16:21:05 maybe 16:26:28 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:26:43 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:26:48 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:27:17 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:28:18 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:28:33 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:29:01 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:07 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:29:17 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:30:11 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:28 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:30:37 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:37:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:37:47 -!- digin4 has joined. 16:38:05 -!- digin4 has quit (Client Quit). 16:45:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:48:30 <\oren\> I should invent a dish involving servings of waffles and call it "wunderwaffle" 16:50:39 does that use English pronunciation, German pronunciation, or change halfway through the word? 16:50:56 <\oren\> or maybe a whole waffle house: luftwaffle, panzerwaffle, wunderwaffle, atomwaffle, waffle-ss 16:51:37 I like "luftwaffle" 16:51:38 <\oren\> ais523: not sure. I could only get away with it in japan or korea anyway, where noone knows how to pronounce any of that anyway 16:52:19 <\oren\> like in germany I would probably go to jail on opening night 16:53:13 \oren\, luftwaffe is still the name of the German Air Force 16:54:02 <\oren\> but i wouldn't get away with a dish called waffle ss 16:55:09 That is true 16:55:21 <\oren\> or probably even "wunderwaffle" would be frowned upon 16:57:28 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:06:14 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:06:31 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:07:34 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:07:50 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:07:52 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:06 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:09:55 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:09 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:10:15 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:31 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:11:32 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:12:00 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:13:07 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:13:22 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:13:56 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:14:11 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:15:31 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:15:45 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:15:50 Ok should be done for now 17:15:59 ~>pyc print 1+1 17:15:59 2 | 17:16:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:22:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:25:30 <\oren\> horray 17:25:49 <\oren\> ~>pyc print "hello " + "wrold \n" 17:25:50 hello wrold | | 17:31:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 17:35:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:41:53 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:46:34 Wow, http://faculty.evansville.edu/ck6/encyclopedia/ETC.html Encyclopedia of Triangle Centers has really grown. It has over 10000 points now.\ 17:47:12 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:57:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:58:15 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:04:53 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49728&oldid=46494 * Primo * (+35) /* 48 */ 18:05:31 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:16:06 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:17:19 what is special about 45306? 18:22:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:22:25 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49729&oldid=49728 * Primo * (+35) /* 208 */ 18:24:40 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49730&oldid=49729 * Primo * (+0) /* 48 */ 18:24:59 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49731&oldid=49730 * Primo * (+0) /* 208 */ 18:40:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:15:37 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:17:34 -!- wanderman has joined. 19:22:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:24:04 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:26:37 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:28:48 -!- sewilton has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:30:46 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:32:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:37:34 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49732&oldid=49731 * Rdebath * (-70) Sorry, not interesting (not shorter or fewer cells) and they use three cells anyway. See talk. 19:42:40 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49733&oldid=38128 * Rdebath * (+1536) /* Note on crunchfuck and more values. */ new section 19:49:51 -!- AndChat112404 has joined. 19:50:17 -!- AndChat112404 has changed nick to Siniestro. 19:50:21 Hola 20:01:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:07:17 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 20:09:04 -!- sewilton has joined. 20:22:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:26:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:30:19 (Why is ONLY the third verse of Deutschlandlied sung in Germany? Like, the first verse is kind of objectionable, but the second is fine, though not really a good first verse. Why not 3 then 2?) 20:31:08 (I mean, I guess 2 could be considered sexist? "Our women are the best women" is I guess offensive to certain horseshoes?) 20:32:48 (Is the current government of Germany considered different from the one the Third Reich was part of, or the same government but reformed?) 20:37:26 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:43:19 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:46:35 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:48:24 Pretty sure it's considered different 20:48:39 And, well, dunno, maybe they wanted it short 20:56:23 (Every country should standardize their emergency codes. I just learned it's 112 in Deutschland rather than 'Mürika's standard 911. I vote we all agree worldwide to use 900, 999, 666, or 100. 999 and 666 are best because they're easily memorable and can be typed quickly; I like 666, but other people won't and 999 is easier because it's the lower-right) 20:57:04 999 was rejected by GSM body due to being easy to accidentally dial 20:57:07 (Current numbers in each country would be a standard redirect to the new one) 20:57:10 nortti: Oh right... 20:57:33 That must be why they went with 911... 20:57:42 and 112 20:58:06 nortti: 112 is easier 20:58:07 hpp: it's more or less standardized, in that the recommended number is 112 everywhere in Europe and 911 everywhere in North America 20:58:12 Ah 20:58:15 hppavilion[1]: 112 works everywhere in Europe 20:58:31 ais523: Ah. I vote 'murica adopts it as an alternate. 20:58:37 hppavilion[1]: the US uses 911 because numbers of the form x11 were used as special cases in the original US numbering system 20:58:58 yes, 112 is definitely easier to dial, at least on European phones where you can dial 112 without unlocking the key lock, because the three buttons are next to each other 20:59:04 also, I've seen 999 dialed by accident myself (it was a small child who happened to like the number 9) 20:59:11 using nonrepeating digits makes that somewhat harder 20:59:14 o.o 20:59:28 also, on a rotary phone, you have to rotate the dial the entire distance to dial a 9, 112 is much faster on one of those 20:59:32 (but nobody uses them nowadays) 20:59:57 hpp: I think 911 probably sometimes works in Europe too (from mobile phones), for compatibility 21:00:06 but it's hard to tell because you can't find out which ones work without actually calling it 21:00:19 you could get a job as an emergency communications tester 21:00:36 there are people who go around dialing 911 from every phone in the US as it's set up to make sure it's connected to the emergency system correctly 21:00:44 wob_jonas: It's the same in the US; in fact, you can dial any number without connecting on iPhone (I think; maybe it's only emergency calls or only one before logging in) 21:00:56 obviously, you need to let the dispatchers know that that's what you're doing 21:01:13 hpp: that's two different things 21:02:06 hpp: one is that you can dial emergency calls from any phone without a sim card, or with an invalid (expired) sim card, or with a valid sim card but without knowing the Pin, and in all of those cases you can't do any other calls (not even free calls) 21:03:38 but what I'm talking about is that on phones that aren't fold-out or slide-out, but have a key lock activated by a short combination of keys (or rarely, by a physical switch on the side) to avoid accidental keyopresses and butt-dialling, if the keys are locked you can still press 1 1 2 green to dial emergency. 21:03:54 112 works everywhere the GSM standard holds sway, even outside Europe. 21:04:04 this makes it very easy to call emergency services blindly, without looking at the phone, because those three buttons (1 and 2 and green) are next to each other 21:04:15 The UK uses 999 it looks like 21:04:28 we use 112 but 999 still works for backwards compatibility 21:04:28 (Even in places where the "traditional" number is something else.) 21:04:44 to the extent that hardly anyone actually knows or uses the new number 21:06:01 ais523: sure, lots of countries still have older emergency service numbers that still work. in Hungary, they're 104 for ambulance, 105 for firefighters, 107 for police (these were introduced within my lifetime, the previous ones were 04, 05, 07), 21:06:06 Finland had 000 as the nationwide emergency number when it was established. 21:06:12 I think Austria has 122, 133, 144. 21:06:25 It might still work for all I know, but the official number was changed to 112 in 1993. 21:06:34 112 is quite well advertized here so I think most people know about it, which is a good thing 21:06:45 wob_jonas: in the UK the way it works is that when you call 112, you get linked to a dispatcher who basically just asks you which emergency services you need 21:06:51 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 21:06:55 then transfers you to the individual emergency-handling department 21:07:02 mind you, some phones also have an interface that lets you call emergency services without knowing the number, although the number is easier 21:07:04 there are six, but most people only know three of them 21:07:23 (fire, police, ambulance; cave rescue, mountain rescue, coastguard) 21:07:36 ais523: sure, there are more than those three here too. I don't know how they work. 21:08:21 I don't know how many of them are and which ones they are and how the central number works (I think at some point it was connected to the police emergency line, and they'd transfer you, but that might have changed since), because luckily I've had no need to call them yet. 21:08:33 Wikipedia has some rather dubious lists of more detailed emergency numbers, which I couldn't really find citations for and find a bit suspicious. 21:08:37 we do have separate less-than-an-emergency lines, though 21:08:41 Or at least had, maybe they've cleaned up. 21:08:51 101 will contact the police for something low priority 21:08:51 ais523: wait, cave rescue? wow 21:09:19 and 111 is a triage line for when you think you have a medical emergency, but aren't sure because you aren't a doctor, and need a qualified doctor to let you know whether it's a medical emergency or not 21:09:39 (this situation comes up regularly enough to need its own number, and I've had to use it in the past) 21:09:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers 21:10:28 In the older days, phonebooks used to have a page or two at the beginning listing dozens of useful not-quite-emergency numbers (and also the emergency numbers), but for some reason they removed those in later editions (even when phonebooks still existed) and now I don't know of an up to date list, not even online. 21:10:30 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:10:44 I think 101 has done wonders for crime reporting, because before it was introduced 21:10:59 nobody could remember how to report a crime that didn't lead to any immediate danger for anyone 21:11:04 so they probably went mostly unreported 21:11:27 Many of those numbers were not short abbreviated numbers, but normal format ones, but these days there are a lot more abbreviated numbers out there (I think there are some with six digits, seriously, although most are four digits long) 21:11:40 People often say they're a "Black belt" in e.g. Python-Fu. Clearly they aren't real programmers, as programming ranks are hex (and #000000 is the lowest rank) 21:11:52 I'd like to see a list, especially because they keep changing the short numbers very quickly a lot of times. 21:12:40 The base rank (can't do anything at all) is #000000, every time you level up you add 1 to the smallest pair, with the tiebreaker being Red before Blue before Green 21:12:52 ais523: for reporting crimes in non-emergency, we do have a number called "Tanú vonal", but I don't know its number 21:13:39 hpp: wait, #000000 is can't do anything at all? how about those people that do more harm to the code than help? 21:14:42 they have colors like the overblack that the NES has 21:14:50 (you aren't supposed to use it because TVs get confused by it) 21:15:17 basically you specify colors to analog TVs via using a range of voltages 21:15:25 overblack has a voltage beyond the black end of the range 21:15:28 hmm… ultrablack? infrablack? 21:16:39 (after looking it up) Apparently it's called "telefontanú" instead, is free to call, and has the number +3680555111 21:17:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:17:09 * wob_jonas writes that up in his phone 21:17:52 wob_jonas: is +3680 significant/memorable in any way? I assume at least some of the leading digits refer to Hungary 21:18:22 ais523: +36 is Hungary, +3680 followed by 6 digits are free to call numbers 21:18:55 aha 21:19:17 so the only bit that isn't structural is a fairly memorable 555111 21:19:43 +3690 or +3681 followed by 6 digits are premium rate numbers, their rate per call or rate per minute can be determined from the next three digits using a step function you have to look up in documentation. 21:20:35 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:20:51 The 80 bit is somewhat standard, I think 80 or 800 are used as the are code for free to call numbers in some other countries too 21:21:37 800 is the area code used in the North American Dialing Plan. 21:21:45 Erm, Numbering Plan. 21:21:50 yes, UK prefix for a free to call number is 0800 21:22:01 And "1-900" for premium-rate services, I believe. (In the USA, I mean.) 21:22:03 and the leading 0 is structural 21:22:06 fizzie: Yes. 21:22:23 (Where the '1' was the characteristically humble country code.) 21:22:24 (it's basically the equivalent of a leading / in a path) 21:22:31 Except that's not US-specific... 21:22:40 these free to call numbers are sometimes called "zöld szám" in Hungary by the way 21:22:57 some of the abbreviated numbers (which these days all start with 1, but some used to start with 0 or 9) are also free to call 21:22:57 I can't guess what Hungarian means by looking at it :-P 21:23:06 The NPNA is used by like a couple dozen countries. 21:23:16 I can't guess what Hungarian means even if Finnish is technically related. 21:23:19 what I wish for is there to be a consistent way to call Hungarian abbreviated numbers from abroad, but I don't think there is one 21:23:40 some of the abbreviated numbers have long equivalents, but not in a systematic relation 21:23:44 (US, Canada, and the Carribean) 21:24:47 fizzie: I saw an experiment on that where they gave some Hungarians in the room some Finnish to try to decode 21:24:59 none of them could figure it out, but they started to see the connections when they were explained 21:25:24 so from this small amount of anecdotal evidence I conclude that the languages are related, but only tenuously 21:25:37 ais523: yes, the two languages are too far to be even partly intelligable. 21:25:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:25:50 the relationship is more in the grammar system 21:26:02 reading Middle English can be fun 21:26:10 Finnish and Estonian work better that way. 21:26:15 it's pretty alien, especially in the spelling, but you can often figure out what it means 21:26:38 They are both Uralic languages, and even Finno-Ugric, but that doesn't help too much. 21:26:45 as opposed to figuring out Swedish from German, which is much easier 21:27:10 English and German are both Germanic languages, and even not *that* far apart, but going from English to German can be pretty mystifying without study. 21:27:34 English is only partly Germanic 21:27:44 it has large Romance influence too 21:28:04 this is part of the reason the vocabulary is so large, it's basically glued two different language families together 21:28:05 English is 100% Germanic, at least from a language family sense. 21:28:14 But it has, yes, huge Romance influence. 21:28:14 (the grammar/structural components are mostly Germanic though) 21:28:32 It's also got huge influence from a *different branch* of the Germanic family. 21:28:53 It's West Germanic, but with vocabulary and grammatical changes adopted from North Germanic. 21:28:53 also, obviously how easy it is to understand a language from another depends a lot on the topic discussed and even the writing style, because those can influence how much of the vocabulary is related 21:28:55 100% Germanic, not from concentrate. 21:29:19 if you talk about modern topics like computers, there are more likely to be words that were loaned recently from English or Latin or Greek 21:29:49 or that were just outright invented 21:30:27 yes, invented and then borrowed from English 21:31:05 hmm, I was just checking Wiktionary to see if the urban legend about the word "quiz" having been invented for a bet is true 21:31:30 and if you're reading French about technical topics, then it can depend a lot on the writer how many English-derived words they use 21:31:30 apparently there's no evidence behind that theory but there isn't evidence behind any of the other theories either 21:31:34 ais523: it's mostly true 21:31:36 so I guess it's possibly true but probably not 21:31:43 iirc 21:32:27 Wikipedia says that the timeline is wrong (the bet is commonly alleged to have happened in 1791, but the word was used in 1781) 21:34:43 -!- Siniestro has quit (Quit: Olfateamos muchas cosas entre prisas diariamente son verdades deliciosas y verdades pestilentes.). 21:36:34 Another useful non-emergency phone number is +3640374636 (branded as +3640DRINFO) which you can call for non-emergency medical problems to find out which clinic you should go to for urgent or non-urgent problems of any kind, based on the type of problem, time, and where you live. 21:38:03 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:04:05 Can you call +36403762746 to find out which pills to eat? 22:04:41 for a good time call +1-202-762-1069 22:06:22 fizzie: they can tell you the information in the public description of all medicine products and on interactions (you can also find these on their webpage at http://dr.info.hu/drinfo/pid/0/medicine ), but they probably won't give you a diagnosis and will sometimes tell you to ask a doctor or pharmacist instead 22:07:28 I don't really know how much medical information they will give you 22:07:29 apparently nobody sees pharmacists nowadays 22:07:41 at least, I went to a pharmacist for a question which was definitely in their domain 22:07:50 and they answered it, but seemed surprised and happy that I hadn't just gone to a doctor 22:07:58 their homepage does have some medical information 22:08:18 wob_jonas: That's why I suggested +3640DRMARIO instead. 22:08:42 ais523: Yeah, very few people will just ask a pharmacist about things like drug interactions. 22:08:49 Which is literally their job and domain of expertise. 22:09:05 ais523: yes, that's my experience too, people (including me) rarely ask questions from pharmacists 22:09:14 in my case, I was asking whether it was safe to end a course of a drug early if it wasn't having the hoped-for effect, or whether it was one for which I needed to take the whole course 22:09:37 There's also one in Colorado. 22:09:47 The questions I usually ask about them is which is the cheapest product equivalent to some other product. 22:09:58 ais523: Seems reasonable. 22:10:46 Mind you, it may help now that I have a doctor as a brother and I can ask questions to him. 22:12:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:14:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:18:48 -!- sewilton has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:19:03 -!- espes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:23:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:26:15 <\oren\> they should just have made one of the emergency numbers 8675309 22:26:35 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:26:44 \oren\: why? 22:26:53 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 22:27:06 wob_jonas, it's easy to remember 22:27:16 <\oren\> becuase everyone knows that number from the song 22:27:37 I don't. That song was never popular here. 22:28:12 <\oren\> well, in places where that song was popular, then 22:28:20 I've never heard the song. 22:28:22 But I know the number. 22:29:08 People can remember the emergency numbers because they're written on a lot of places that are easy to notice: on lots of emergency vehicles, near public payphones, on some police buildings, on websites, etc. 22:29:34 (And from phonebooks, for old people like me.) 22:29:43 I don't know if there's a song for them. Maybe there should be. 22:29:56 There are probably instruction videos. 22:30:34 I think I've seen signs advertizing the emergency numbers in other public places too, often together with other useful information about emergency procedures.. 22:31:31 -!- espes has joined. 22:31:46 Like, signs that say that if there's a fire in this building, call some number it gives which is the phone number of the maintainer for that public building or call 112; the sign also sometimes tells you what information you should report. 22:33:30 I don't know if it's written on emergency vehicles here; what payphones?; I don't think it's writen on police buildings either 22:33:35 at least not particularly prominenty 22:33:48 Agree about emergency signs though 22:34:25 Like the ones in public buildings pointing out where emergency exits are and what way to take and such 22:34:41 FireFly: and websites too. like, see the two big numbers on http://www.police.hu/ ? 22:35:19 Sure, I'll give you websites too 22:35:45 https://polisen.se/ ← yeah, here too apparently. makes sense 22:35:52 not quite as prominent though 22:36:19 I also hope teachers teach these kinds of useful things in elementary schools and high schools, but I don't follow what schools do these days. 22:36:29 Yeah, definitely 22:36:58 Obviously that doesn't help older adults when a lot of these information needs updated. 22:37:02 Oh, and 22:38:59 the majority of adults here have a driver's license, and unless you've got it many decades ago, a driver's license requires a course and exam on first aid procedures and other procedures to be followed in case of an accident, and that definitely requires knowing how to call the police and ambulance 22:39:42 There's also television. Many people still watch television, and television also tells about this sort of thing sometimes. 22:40:13 At least if you listen to the news programs, not only TV series. 22:40:17 So television and radio probably helps a lot too. 22:41:10 One of the annoying things about English is comparative adjectives 22:41:50 hpp: be more specific? 22:41:57 wob_jonas: Working on it 22:42:06 When I first saw the words used by Wiktionary, it was that (usually) -est is the Superlative (the most adjectival), which I knew 22:43:00 And that (usually) -er (used to say something more adjectivial, but not necessarily the most) is the... "comparative"? 22:43:19 yes 22:43:23 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:44:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:46:30 let's hear a story 22:47:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:49:23 -!- Kobalt has joined. 22:54:28 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 22:55:54 Kobalt: did you kill your master 22:59:37 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:06:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:07:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:08:12 -!- makellite has joined. 23:12:50 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 23:12:55 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:14:45 hello world :) 23:15:27 -!- makellite has left. 23:15:27 `WeLcOmE makellite 23:15:29 MaKeLlItE: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN EfNeT Or dAlNeT.) 23:15:42 oops 23:15:58 lol 23:23:15 `? lol 23:23:16 lol stands for laughing out legends 23:24:15 `dowg lol 23:24:17 2015-06-24 le/rn lol/lol stands for laughing out legends 23:24:25 i don't get it 23:24:41 shachaf: it's probably out of your league 23:24:48 i get that part 23:25:06 it's combining, i guess, "laughing out loud" and "league of legends" 23:25:07 that's fine 23:25:15 but i don't get it 23:25:17 yes. you expect there to be more to it? 23:25:29 i expect it to not exist if that's all there is to it 23:26:08 shocking 23:27:26 `mkx le/rm//rm "wisdom/$1" 23:27:28 le/rm 23:27:29 `le/rm lol 23:27:31 No output. 23:28:00 `ln -sf ../bin/forget le/rm 23:28:01 ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 23:28:05 `` ln -sf ../bin/forget le/rm 23:28:07 No output. 23:28:19 `le/rm lol 23:28:19 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/lol': No such file or directory \ Forget what? 23:35:31 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 23:35:36 `wisdom 0 23:35:38 hax0r//hax0r (see ¯\(°​_o)/¯) 23:35:46 `wisdom 1 23:35:47 1*1//1*1 is two. 23:35:49 `wisdom 2 23:35:50 ais523//Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 23:36:07 `wisdom 3 23:36:08 usb3//USB3 hosts are packaged with a full independent implementation of the older USB/USB2, going through separate pins in the same socket. It is similar to DVI, except you need a separate passive converter stub to plug VGA monitor to DVI socket, but you don't need one to plug a USB client to an USB3 host. 23:36:30 `wisdom 4 23:36:31 4chan//4chan is twice as loud as stereo. 23:36:35 `wisdom 5 23:36:36 md5//MD5 is a hash algorithm mainly used by underdeveloped aliens. 23:36:42 `wisdom 6 23:36:43 2600//2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. 23:36:48 `wisdom 7 23:36:49 1337//1337 15 50 905 23:36:52 `wisdom 8 23:36:53 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:36:54 footnote 8//Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 23:36:59 `wisdom 9 23:37:00 hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2//hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2 23:37:05 `wisdom 10 23:37:06 cat: : No such file or directory \ // 23:37:10 `wisdom 11 23:37:12 cat: : No such file or directory \ // 23:37:14 `wisdom 12 23:37:15 hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2//hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2 23:37:19 `wisdom 13 23:37:20 1337//1337 15 50 905 23:37:24 `wisdom 14 23:37:25 cat: : No such file or directory \ // 23:37:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:37:55 Please stop spamming. 23:38:20 Not just right now but in general. 23:38:22 * oerjan wonders if that 905 is meaningless or not 23:38:53 `dowg 1337 23:38:54 2015-11-23 learn 1337 15 50 905 23:39:00 don't we all 23:39:04 i was a bit surprised that it got through all digits without repeating a wisdom 23:39:32 shachaf: i suppose we'll never know, then. 23:40:02 `? effilry 23:40:03 Effilry is eemnoos how ahs got it all deorst otu. 23:40:34 I find that "cat: : No such file or directory \ //" behavior on error a little... less polished. Needs more PE. 23:41:15 PE? 23:41:21 shachaf: Product excellence. 23:41:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:41:42 hi hppavilion[1] 23:42:07 Helloon 23:42:22 `hoag bin/wisdom 23:42:24 ​ ` echo \'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); { echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; } | rnooodl\' > bin/wisdom \ ` echo \'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"\' > bin/wisdom \ ` echo \'f=$(find wisdom - 23:42:32 I seem to have dropped out of a spiel I was in the middle of 23:42:41 About comparative adjectives in english 23:43:00 comparative adjectives are the most bester 23:43:31 When I first saw the words used to describe relative adjectives used by wiktionary, I saw -est is for "superlative", which I knew- it is the most adjectivial thing 23:43:42 But then I saw -er is for "comparative", which I'd never heard 23:44:05 i think that's just your problem hth 23:44:35 And it bugged me at first because if -er- which is for a more, but not necessarily the most, adjectivial thing- what is for a less adjectivial thing? The word "comparative" applies to any relative difference, not just increase 23:44:38 positive, comparative, superlative are the three used in english. 23:44:49 oerjan: Never heard positive 23:45:00 And then it hit me, something I'd missed my whole life: English doesn't /have/ a way to say "less" 23:45:08 hppavilion[1]: well it's the default form so rarely noted specifically. 23:45:13 Ah 23:45:21 Sure, you can use antonyms ('bigger/smaller'), but that just doesn't feel right any more 23:45:40 unbigger 23:46:18 Especially because for more obscure adjectives, their properest antonym might not be available- so you'd have to use a propere... shit. See? Do you see the problem? 23:46:33 shachaf: Well yeah, sure 23:46:33 hppavilion[1]: i haven't yet learned of any language which has an inflection for "less", as opposed to using an auxiliary word. but there's probably some. 23:46:46 oerjan: It should be ALL that have inflections. 23:46:59 (and while we're at it, one for equal) 23:47:20 `` sed -i -e 's/{/if [ -n "$f" ]; then/;s/} |/else echo "that'\''s not wise"; fi |/' bin/wisdom 23:47:21 hppavilion[1]: but it isn't. we've probably inherited this mess from PIE. 23:47:22 No output. 23:47:27 Well yeah 23:47:51 `wisdom 11 23:47:52 that's not wise 23:48:12 `wisdom forty 23:48:13 forty//forty means "in a fort-like manner" 23:48:22 That's at least a little better. 23:48:24 `wisdom taneb 23:48:25 tanebventory//The Tanebventory is big. Really big. For one thing, it contains a Hilbert hotel. 23:48:28 You can say "Your house is big" and "this cavern is big", but are they /equally/ big? 23:48:41 -!- hydraz has changed nick to hydPaz. 23:48:45 `wisdom taneb 23:48:46 tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 23:48:56 `wisdom taneb 23:48:57 people who taneb is not//elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 23:48:59 `sled bin/wisdom//s/that/That/;s/wise/wise./ 23:49:01 bin/wisdom//f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl 23:49:51 `` rgrep -li really wisdom 23:49:58 wisdom/zygohistomorphic prepromorphism \ wisdom/piet \ wisdom/oklopol \ wisdom/tanebventory \ wisdom/god's number \ wisdom/vorpal \ wisdom/inory 23:50:11 `? god's number 23:50:12 God's number is the maximum number of moves a Rubik's cube can require to solve. It is equal to 20. No, really. Look it up. 23:50:16 boring 23:50:24 `? vorpal 23:50:25 Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones. 23:50:38 boring 23:50:44 (Oh, what the hell. We need ALL the equalities and inequalities) 23:50:53 actually come to think of it, i don't know any language inflections for comparison that aren't the indo-european ones. 23:51:14 i think most people either know what god's number is, or expect quarter turn metrics 23:51:21 in which case god's number is 24 23:51:22 ...scratch that, i know hungarian. which afaik also has 3 levels. 23:51:39 You know Hungarian? 23:51:41 (-bb, leg-...-bb) 23:51:48 thats not vorpal, this is vorpal: https://github.com/dthree/vorpal 23:51:54 shachaf: well the affixes for comparison, anyway. 23:51:59 ah no it's 26 in qtm 23:52:09 quan tum mechanics 23:52:09 and some other cruft. 23:52:15 `? oerjan 23:52:16 Your mysterious evil overlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 23:52:18 shachaf: quarter turn metrics 23:52:24 -!- digin4 has joined. 23:52:43 `slwd oerjan//s#overlord kommisjonær#hungarian oerlord# 23:52:45 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 23:53:37 oerjan: There's the "-ish" adjectival inflection, that's a little like "less". Big, bigger, biggest -- but just moderately biggish. 23:54:23 Well, of course there are diminutives and things. 23:54:29 But those aren't used for comparison. 23:55:55 hppavilion[1]: anyway as for using antonyms, did you know russian has an entire inflection category (verb aspect) that is _always_ formed by changing to a distinct verb? and although it's often done with some prefix, it's not predictable which one. 23:59:21 ("x is adj-er than y" is x > y; "x is the adj-est X" is max(X) = x; additional inflections must be added for: x < y; min(X) = x; x ≤ y; x ≥ y x ≪ y; x ≫ y; x = y; x ≠ y; x ≈ y; x ≉ y; x ≡ y; x := y; x ≟ y ("x isn't even related to y what the hell are you talking about")) 2016-09-17: 00:03:49 Heh, there's a book (Bobaljik (2012), Universals in comparative morphology: suppletion, superlatives, and the structure or words) which (according to this quotation) claims that "no language has a synthetic comparative of inferiority", calling that the "lesslessness" generalization. 00:03:59 "This generalization is empirically the strongest of all the generalizations considered in this book. In none of the more than 300 languages examined for this study did anything remotely resembling a counterexample appear." 00:04:25 ah. sorry hppavilion[1] :P 00:04:33 THE UNIVERSE IS AGAINST YoU 00:04:37 *O 00:05:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:05:56 ([engage reductio ad absurdum] While we're at it, we also need notations for: AM(X) = x; GM(X) = x; HM(X) = x; QM(X) = x. For all the inflections for f(X) = x, we need variants that replace = with >, <, ≤, ≥, ≪, ≫, ≠, ≈, ≉, ≡, :=, and ≟, and to express when x is within various deviations (including standard deviation, mean absolute deviation, and others) of f(X)) 00:06:35 This includes things such as x ≪ min(X) 00:07:23 "You don't have an app that can open this file (.c). Try searching Google Play for one that can. [cancel] [search]" what the actual fuck 00:07:39 in the 70s, they didn't have problems to open fucking plain text ascii files 00:07:39 izalove: Which actual fuck in particular? 00:07:41 and now i do 00:07:49 hppavilion[1]: my fucking phone 00:07:51 izalove: What platform are you on? 00:07:52 Oh 00:08:03 Well it's probably because phones aren't meant for code 00:08:19 (Really, if you have a plain ascii editor at all you can probably coerce your phone to open the .c with that) 00:08:49 i need to install an editor for plain text files 00:08:51 on a phone 00:08:57 that can send sms and email 00:09:02 we're living in the lowest common denominator. 00:09:08 it already has plenty of text editing features 00:09:08 Oh, I forgot median(X) = x and mode(X) = x (and variants for =) 00:10:52 i was going to suggest harmonic mean but is that HM above 00:11:05 * oerjan wasn't getting that notation at the time 00:12:52 what's your favorite text editor for android? 00:13:49 i don't even know which features i need but i'd appreciate monospaced fonts 00:14:30 Not to mention WAM(X), TruncM(X), MR(X), TriM(X), etc 00:14:35 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:14:41 (I've seen other weird ones like geometric-harmonic mean 00:14:44 Whoops 00:15:47 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 00:16:45 (I've seen other weird ones like geometric-harmonic mean which is probably distinct from harmonic-geometric mean for some reason) 00:17:43 Sword of Legend {3} Legendary Artifact - Equipment ;; Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and is legendary. ;; {2}, {T}: Attach ~ to target legendary creature. That creature gains bands with other legendary creatures until end of turn. Activate this ability only if there are no other permanents with the same name as that creature. ;; Equip {2} 00:27:05 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.xgouchet.texteditor 1. can edit text 2. ad free 00:27:09 best text editor 00:27:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:27:51 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:29:37 my standards for text editors quality are a lot lower on phones 00:29:38 I've used one, but I forgot its name. I don't think I could give a very informative recommendation based on a sample size of N=1 anyway. 00:29:54 You could just install Emacs on it. 00:30:09 i don't even know how to emacs on desktop 00:30:17 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emacs "If Emacs segfaults try changing font size. This is going to be fixed." The description starts well. 00:30:23 LOL 00:32:23 there are a bunch of vims 00:34:59 bah whatever, i'll keep the one i just installed 00:35:21 i'm not gonna program on this thing anyway 00:35:52 oerjan: technically, hungarian has four levels for adjective inflection, but the fourth is very rare 00:35:53 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:36:07 wob_jonas: oh, what's that? 00:37:00 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:37:30 oerjan: the fourth uses the circumfix "legesleg-...-bb" and has similar meaning as the superlative (which uses the circumfix "leg-...-bb") but used when you are very emphatic about the claim 00:38:36 legeslegjóbb inflection 00:38:50 nah, it's spelled "legeslegjobb" 00:38:57 darn 00:39:40 any bulgarians here? 00:40:42 but it's so rare that in primary school classes they usually just teach students that there are three degrees of adjectives, not four 00:54:31 Wow. A search box on a website that doesn't let me search for a list of words if the whole thing is more than 20 characters long. Crazy stuff. More words or longer words just make searches easier for the server, and 20 characters is a very low limit in practice. 00:56:21 more words make it easier if you search for a and b and c and d 00:56:37 at least it allows you to list words. in theory. 00:58:54 for the record, this search form is http://www.munkaugyiforum.hu/kereses 01:00:24 it is otherwise not a bad webpage really\ 01:00:50 their english sucks 01:03:24 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:11:47 You know, there is a holiday called "Satan Worship Day", but it's always on the fifth Monday in November 01:12:24 See if editing it in the inspector or whatever will make it accept more than twenty. 01:12:40 hppavilion[1]: uh? november can have 5 mondays 01:12:57 izalove: I'm not sure it can... 01:13:00 Let me recalculate 01:13:03 are you serious 01:13:08 I actually am 01:13:15 lern2math 01:13:33 izalove: I did, but then I lernd2program and am now constantly vigilant for off-by-one errors 01:13:37 `? off-by-2 error 01:13:38 off-by-2 error? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:13:44 `? off-by-two error 01:13:45 off-by-two error? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:14:07 `wisdom two error 01:14:08 That's not wise. 01:14:14 `wisdom 2 error 01:14:15 That's not wise. 01:14:18 wat 01:14:34 `wisdom off?by 01:14:35 off by two//An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction. 01:14:36 oerjan: I think "That's not wise" is the empty set of wisdom results 01:14:43 HackEgo: november 2015 had 5 mondays 01:14:46 err hppavilion[1] 01:14:46 hppavilion[1]: i know, fizzie just added that 01:14:47 If Nov 1 is Monday (best-case scenario), then 7 days later (Nov 8) is monday 01:15:06 15 is monday 3, 22 is monday 4, and... 29 is monday 5 01:15:07 `` cal 11 2015 01:15:08 ​ November 2015 \ Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa \ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 \ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 \ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 \ 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 \ 29 30 01:15:16 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:15:18 OK, it's the 6th Monday then. There. 01:15:34 that's not even interesting 01:15:47 It won't display so well on HackEgo; you can execute cal on your own computer though (if you have Linux, BSD, or Macintosh) 01:16:00 (In other news, in the BCS for 5th Monday, Satan Day is my birthday) 01:16:03 (If you have Windows then it is more difficult) 01:18:12 zzo38: I have windows and it wasn't difficult at all 01:18:13 well windows has its own calendar program 01:18:44 (yay for Cygwin and MinGW) 01:19:42 it was a bit clicky getting to nov 2015 though. 01:19:52 at least on first try. 01:21:12 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I'm generally against PC, but I honestly don't know what I think about "Happy holidays" and "Season's greetings". Not just that I don't dislike them for being too PC, but really I honestly prefer them ) 01:21:56 and i cannot get to before 1917. 01:22:33 I myself don't care and hope they don't all say same things. However, "Season's greetings" isn't the words that makes much sense to me in such context, I think. 01:23:03 or after 2116. 01:23:40 (You know what? "Happy Holidays" is better. It's just better.) 01:23:47 posix cal can go up to 9999 01:24:39 hppavilion[1]: Yes, it is better than seaon greetings, at least. 01:25:24 gnu cal can go up to 2147483646 01:25:38 I accidentally asked cal for year 11, and it gave me it 01:26:07 Yes, it can do that. 01:26:22 (In contexts where you can assume a predominantly Christian audience- e.g. in an actual Church- "Merry Christmas" seems appropriate, but the same way Jews can say... whatever Jews say on their Winter Solstice Holiday in Jewy contexts and Muslims can say their whatever (is it Rashashama[sp] around then?) in Muslimy contexts) 01:26:39 ("Merry Holiday" is always fun) 01:27:02 (Also, Xmas is stupid. Clearly we should use Ksmas.) 01:29:06 "Xmas" is an abbreviation for "Christmas"; use it when you are low on space to write the letters. The "X" is an old abbreviation for "Christ". 01:29:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:30:00 this other cal is from util-linux goes up to cal 12 2147483646 01:30:06 I think "Merry Christmas" is OK; it isn't only Christian anymore, anywys. Is good if you are Christian or not. And then, other is Yule, which is the proper Winter Solstice holiday; Christmas is a few days later. It is still good. 01:30:07 *+and 01:30:32 December 25 (Christmas Day) is a national holiday in Canada, not just a religious holiday, anyways. 01:30:41 (I suppose Antichrist day would be around the summer solstice...) 01:30:45 > showHex 2147483646 "" 01:30:47 "7ffffffe" 01:31:09 zzo38: Yes, we all know where the X came from. 01:31:36 Maybe, if there is such things as "Antichrist day" which I don't think so 01:32:09 (But, you could make it up) 01:35:01 zzo38: Wait, right, it's not "Antichrist day"; it's "Antichristblakmas" 01:36:39 hppavilion[1]: i don't remember muslims having a specific winter holiday. the muslim calendar isn't solar so the main events shift around the year. however some will celebrate ne[wv]r[ou]z around spring equinox (it's not really a muslim holiday). 01:37:18 https://www.livecoding.tv/ 01:37:33 Nevruz/Nevroz/Newruz/Newroz 01:41:34 hppavilion[1]: i missed several spellings 01:42:15 "Merriam-Webster (2006) recognizes only the spelling "Nauruz" (and a contestant in the final session of the 2006 Scripps National Spelling Bee in the United States, Allion Salvador, was disqualified on that basis)." 01:42:23 Crap 01:42:46 i'm reading this on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowruz hth 01:43:42 So probably n[ae][uvw]r[ou][zs]? (the [zs] is just a guess because, let's be honest, it's definitely an option) 01:44:40 ...woooow. Someone was disqualified in the Scripps National Spelling Bee for spelling "Nauruz" wrong. Because the spelling they used was different 01:44:48 Spelling Bees are a stupid competition. 01:45:16 hppavilion[1]: *cough* 01:46:03 oh there's a longer list of spellings in the infobox. 01:49:42 hppavilion[1]: If Antichrist Day is around the summer solstice, than Midsummer (or the Feast of Saint John) is Antichrist Day. 01:49:49 Therefore, Saint John is the Antichrist! 01:50:32 glad you sorted that out 01:51:09 am i the antichrist 01:52:08 Are you John? 01:52:23 pikhq: No, Antichristblakmas is the /birth/ of the antichrist in the year 1 AHN 01:53:08 St John's feast day celebrates his birth. 01:53:18 Nothing to do with Saint John (whose feast is on 27 december) 01:53:41 Sorry. St John the Baptist's feast day. 01:53:51 Let's be specific. 01:55:12 It's actually on June 25, which is for Presentation of the Augsburg Confession 01:55:31 (at least, it is in the One True Denomination, which is Lutheranism) 01:57:02 ...so according to Lutheranism, Antichristblakmas coincides with the commemoration of their founding... OH MY GOD LUTHERANS ARE SATANISTS 01:57:10 *cheers* 02:18:19 (Is a moon of a dwarf planet considered a dwarf moon?) 02:22:43 pikhq: What do you think of CA Labor Code §2870? 02:22:47 p. good huh 02:42:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:49:57 Except when certain companies go "yeah, but we're in literally every business so fuck you" 02:57:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:59:02 Certain companies. 02:59:16 But imagine that in other states you don't even get that? 03:41:14 -!- Kaynato has joined. 03:49:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:55:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:56:43 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:58:58 Has 538 ever managed to influence itself? 03:59:43 wat 04:00:32 e.g. it predicts that a candidate everyone hates- let's call him Rumpt- has a 40% chance of winning. Someone shares it, all the people who are against Rumpt and in favor of a marginally less objectionable candidate- let's call her (as she could be the first female president) "Billary"- freak out and resolve to vote when they weren't planning on it 04:00:48 They participate in polls, thus changing 538's value 04:01:18 poles usually can't vote in us elections 04:01:24 unless they're polish-american, of course 04:02:13 but even they are discriminated against 04:02:16 they have to pay the pole tax 04:02:22 shachaf: No, the poles are being participated /in/, not voting themselves 04:02:48 No, Pole taxes are only for Alaskans and people born in may 04:03:07 Nothing to do with Poll Land 04:06:38 Lo, have I outpunned even the great shachaf emself? 04:11:51 where is boily when you need him. 04:13:38 good first sentence in today's wikipedia featured article blurb 04:15:02 what about the first sentence in today's featured esolang blurb 04:15:23 it's a bit stale 04:16:08 Who was that famous art forger? 04:16:37 Oh, no, he forged text maybe? 04:17:22 Ireland? 04:17:46 The one whose forgeries were so famous that they were in demand, so he forged his own forgeries to sell them. 04:17:57 never heard of. 04:19:21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_Shakespeare_forgeries 04:20:51 the one forgerer i remember reading about is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_van_Meegeren 04:26:41 forgerer? 04:26:50 one who does forgery, i guess 04:28:51 *-er 04:29:12 which one twh 04:29:23 idts 04:29:24 oerjan: it would be unambiguous if you wrote -re hth 04:29:29 *+n 04:29:31 Reading my school & school district handbook 04:29:41 oerjan: and then you would eeven teach people about adjunctions 04:29:45 In the section on what you can't discriminate against, it doesn't mention gender identity 04:29:51 Are you pondering what I'm pondering? 04:30:07 no, fortunately. 04:30:18 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:18 hppavilion[1]: Nope, I'm just becoming grumpy. 04:30:25 pikhq: Oh 04:30:50 Well I'm pondering locating the Superintendent's email and sending them a polite notification that they might want to fix that 04:31:07 Ah! Reasonable. 04:31:21 is gender in the list 04:31:41 It might not work, but a polite email is likely to effect change with minimal fuss. Unless they're transphobic, which is not implausible. 04:31:46 just make it identity alone and be done with it. 04:32:33 . o O ( is a transphobic someone who is born without phobias but wants to change it... ) 04:32:51 <\oren\> something insane is going down on reddit 04:33:11 \oren\: so nothing out of the ordinary? 04:33:32 <\oren\> the main subreddit for the trump campaign was compromised to some sort of monetary scam 04:33:57 huh 04:34:17 <\oren\> then when people reacted badly, the mods started banning people and deleting posts that talked about it 04:34:29 but why would you care about reddit 04:34:33 all the mods? 04:34:41 <\oren\> some of them at least 04:35:00 <\oren\> and they unmodded at least 50 people to prevent them from stopping it 04:37:58 <\oren\> very interesting to observe a popular revolt like this 04:40:14 well the oldest mod has ultimate power unless admins intervene, which they almost never do last i heard 04:40:55 of course if this blows up _enough_, they might have to reconsider that. 04:41:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 04:41:46 i remember replacing the disappeared mod of /r/physics took ages. 04:42:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:42:07 (it had only one) 04:44:54 <\oren\> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/535jkk/about_what_happened_tonight/ <- this is the damage control post after they removed the disaster posts 04:49:13 ok so just extremely bad judgement, not a hostile takeover. whatever. 04:50:19 <\oren\> well, I dunno. the site they were promoting: www.nimbleamerica.com looks shady as hell 04:50:58 <\oren\> looks to me like a hostile takeover but for monetary rather than political gain 04:51:03 it would of course be funny if the top mods of that subreddit started it just to troll everyone 04:51:24 <\oren\> true 04:51:53 (it = the subreddit) 04:52:09 <\oren\> the degree of crazy crap on reddit is why I stopped posting on any subreddits and relurked 04:53:23 <\oren\> somehow the reddit system seems wired to produce hilarious, trainwreck drama 04:54:03 Well yeah, it gives a lot of people little fiefdoms with near-absolute power within. 04:54:24 That not *every* subreddit is a trainwreck is a testament to the capability of humans to be good. 04:54:53 ... That some subreddits are spectacular trainwrecks, of course, is just evidence that "capable" does not imply "will". 04:54:59 <\oren\> hehehehe 04:56:41 <\oren\> on the other hand one of the reasons I still lurk is in hope of seeing crazy trainwreck drama 04:56:57 <\oren\> so some good comes of the evil 05:05:29 <\oren\> drama is funny when you're not at all involved 05:12:55 pikhq: They have a doctorate, so she probably isn't an asshole 05:13:46 shachaf: It is, but just "gender", no mention of whether it conforms (so you could, for example, harass them by making a point of treating them as masculine- not just like a slip-of-the-tongue thing, but REALLY making a point out of it) 05:13:59 pikhq: It's surprisingly reasonable as far as things-done-by-me go 05:14:24 @ask conal For computing [x^i | i <- [0..n]] (which you used for DFT), can you do better than O(n) work and O(log n) depth using repeated squaring? 05:14:24 Consider it noted. 05:16:22 conforms to what 05:21:18 shachaf: Basically, the cis-trans dichotomy 05:22:47 cis is "is gender G outside and says they're gender G", trans is "is gender G outside but says's they're gender H" 05:23:15 Because "cis-" is the opposite of "trans-". 05:25:59 <\oren\> cis literally means, on this side of 05:27:04 <\oren\> for example, the province of Gallia in roman empire was divided into cisalpine gaul, on the same side of the alps as italy, and transalpine gaul, on the opposite side 05:29:19 <\oren\> so transgender would mean that someone's gender is on the opposite side from their sex 05:31:53 What happen if someone says they are actually more than one gender or not at all? 05:32:03 <\oren\> another example is cis and trans isomers of chemicals like dichloroethene 05:33:15 zzo38: The first would be something non-binary or gender fluid, the latter is agender. 05:33:36 Or bigender or pangender for the first... 05:53:34 -!- Akaibu has joined. 05:54:27 zzo38: I think someone who identifies as agender would be classified as transgender, but in the flimsy sense, because their gender is like an atheist's religion 05:55:20 New universally-acceptable greeting: "Salutations, fellow lifeform" 05:56:17 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:59:26 HOW DARE YOU CALL ME ALIVE 05:59:35 BRAINS 06:12:29 oerjan: Zombies count as a lifeform 06:13:24 They're under the continent "Athanata" 06:13:39 (below which is empires AKA domains, then kingdoms and it's Katy Perry from there) 06:29:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:29:41 -!- augur has joined. 06:50:19 Oh, one of the recently captured FBI most wanteds had the same birthday as me 06:57:06 -!- digitalcold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:43 (I think I know somebody for whom http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-02 would be perfectly reasonable) 07:04:41 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I wonder if there's a charity that I can donate to that exists for the soul purpose of rechariting my money to another charity so I don't have to figure out what it is ) 07:04:49 s/soul/sole/ 07:05:44 Optimal Charity* (donations to Optimal Charity are inherently suboptimal, we can only guarantee optimality given the assumption you give money to us instead of our donation targets directly) 07:13:55 -!- digitalcold has joined. 07:24:19 I'm honestly curious if https://xkcd.com/545/ has ever been tried 07:24:25 Any bored millionaires? 07:29:48 -!- Akaibu has quit. 07:32:05 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:34:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 07:40:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:47:22 "Who milks the milkman" -- Randall Munroe 07:49:23 -!- carado has joined. 07:54:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:58:10 ah, beautiful. '[1050080.761768] Read-error on swap-device (254:1:3016)' 07:59:02 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Do astronauts have to be paid minimum wage for a 24/7 work week? ) 08:03:43 (In fact, they would have to be paid minimum wage for 40 of those hours, PLUS 1.5* minimum wage for each additional hour) 08:17:10 (CaC again. No important data was at risk at any time.) 08:22:53 I'm reading a subpoena. 08:23:00 The one to google 08:23:46 It says that "And" and "Or" don't mean "And" and "Or" every time; they are treated, in each instance, either disjunctively or conjunctively in such a way that creates the broadest request possible 08:40:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I think astronauts are probably entitled to more given their substantial skills and their dangerous workplace. 08:40:51 I SUMMON ENTROPY 08:40:55 \oren\: Well yeah, that too 08:41:04 But what if, like, it was Ted the Shitty Astronaut 08:41:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKFuXETZUsI so coooooool 08:41:21 i love it i love it i can't wait 08:41:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:41:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I get most of my Kerbals from rescue missions 08:42:01 \oren\: And how much are they paid? 08:42:20 Have you asked your Kerbal lawyers about the laws of the USK? 08:42:50 (Weird how there are no other Kerbals on the entirety of the pla- oh god. Is this why you're trying to get to space? To escape a dying world?) 08:44:46 <\oren\> update: the nimble america subreddit was hacked and destroyed in a counterattack 08:45:48 <\oren\> mod/user warfare continues to rage 08:54:21 What exactly IS nimble america? 08:54:35 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I wonder how long it is until we have computers that can write novels ) 08:56:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:59:39 I heard somebody at school today talking about how the new "iPhones" are blowing up while charging 08:59:42 I wept for humanity 09:01:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:03:03 <\oren\> i thought it was samsung? 09:04:15 \oren\: Yeah 09:04:20 \oren\: That's why I wept 09:04:33 Because they don't realize that 80% of smartphones aren't iPhones 09:05:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:12:46 hppavilion[1], they could just be mixed up 09:13:34 Taneb: You don't seem to understand the stupidity of the people around me 09:13:41 (Also, I tried to explain and he ignored me) 09:15:37 In 30 years, Trump speeches will be mandatory viewing in college classrooms 09:16:02 Specifically, classes about psychiatry, during the day when they talk about narcissism 09:22:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:25:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:25:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:31:09 <\oren\> when will george w bush become recognized as the historic first he was 09:31:29 <\oren\> the first president to be mentally impaired 09:43:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:48:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:12:36 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:19:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:20:03 Can centaurs be made with other animals? 10:20:05 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:20:28 \oren\: No, we had earlier presidents, but they usually lost it after 10:20:40 hppavilion[1]: how furry are you today? 10:20:46 izalove: Not particularly 10:20:55 I just heard Stephen Colbert say something funny about giraffes 10:21:04 (I haven't looked at any furry porn all day...) 10:21:15 (Zebrataurs would, of course, have to be a thing. They probably are already.) 10:21:59 The closest extant relative to the Centaur is the Bonobotaur 10:22:23 Giraffes are really just Snaketaurs 10:22:37 several thousands results for zebrataur on google 10:46:01 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:01:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:04:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:52:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 11:53:07 -!- Zarutian has joined. 12:16:38 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 12:39:33 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:24:47 -!- Zarutian has joined. 13:34:12 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:45:15 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:47:03 -!- carado has joined. 13:57:09 -!- wanderman has joined. 14:11:18 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:38:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:04:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:10:05 -!- wanderman has joined. 15:41:04 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:57:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:05:49 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:13:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:15:38 -!- vague_ has joined. 16:16:01 -!- vague_ has left. 16:29:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:38:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:08:08 Do you like this? "Target opponent chooses artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, or sorcery. Search your library for a card of that type, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library." 17:11:41 -!- petsu has joined. 17:48:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:50:49 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:59:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:06:30 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:13:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:37:29 zzo38: Sounds interesting. 18:37:55 How much would it cost? 18:40:33 I don't know. What amount would you think? 18:46:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:53:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:31:37 Card I made up called "Zeux Agem" now has "bands with other creatures that have flying and power less than 3". 19:38:05 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 20:21:06 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 20:21:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:08 mega zeux 21:08:01 i have basic brewing in my df-like \o/ 21:14:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:15:16 -!- augur has joined. 21:15:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:19:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:20:08 (Perhaps the word "Schadenfreude"- which is originally the German word for pleasure at other people's misfortune ("harm-joy") but has since been adopted into fringe English- should be englicized in spelling to make it less confusing for native english speakers) 21:22:45 ("inenvy"- inverse envy- would also be an acceptable adaptation that doesn't require remembering how to German it) 21:27:34 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:30:01 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:30:23 int-e: a failing swap device... ouch. did you reboot and discontinue using it for swap? 21:30:52 int-e: also, what sort of device is it? spinning hard disk, solid state disk, network? 22:01:51 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 22:10:07 -!- augur has joined. 22:12:55 wob_jonas: I'm about 87% sure that was CloudAtCost hardware at work again. 22:14:21 int-e: The esolangs.org VPS has stopped doing those "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 21s" messages, maybe that's why HackEgo has anecdotally felt a bit speedier recently. 22:14:56 (Oh, CaC was even confirmed, I missed that line.) 22:20:23 fizzie: what's CloudAtCost? 22:22:35 A VPS provider with a one-time-fee model. 22:22:36 What material of oven mitts (gloves for heat insulation) do you use? Fabric, silicone, or dragon skin? 22:23:00 Fabric; somehow I just can't trust silicone. 22:24:15 I currently use silicone ones, but I'm considering to buying ordinary fabric ones. 22:24:31 I use fabric oven mitts because that works good and it is what I have. 22:24:46 :I wrote how I think a very simple API to make JavaScript addon in C might ought to be: http://sprunge.us/ZXPA Hopefully with help it can be made up in a reasonable way. Do you like this? 22:24:50 I have no oven mitts, but I should. 22:25:02 I typically use some sort of fabric as a substitute, though. 22:25:08 -!- sparr has joined. 22:25:42 I'm sitting here at the Roguelike Celebration (200 person conference in San Francisco) and am inspired to get esolang folks and code golfers together for a conference 22:26:07 sparr: a roguelike celebration? sounds nice 22:26:20 yeah, it's fun. roguelike devs and designers, lots of players 22:26:21 wob_jonas: Until you have to start eating corpses to stay in character. 22:26:42 sparr: how would that work? somehow more than half of the esolang people are in Europe 22:26:55 fizzie: you can eat vegetarian corpses, that is, dead plants 22:27:04 wob_jonas: well, if it worked, maybe there could be other such events around the world. that's a big goal, though 22:27:09 or cooked corpses 22:27:20 it all starts with 50 people getting together somewhere for the first time 22:27:42 I don't think we've managed to get even 5 people on this channel together at any one time. 22:27:49 I'd like to fix that :) 22:27:59 there are more esolang users at this roguelike conference than anywhere else I've been 22:28:19 I met someone who used my language, and found it without having known me before! (huge ego boost) 22:29:02 atehwa once hosted an esolang seminar at their university, I think. (I may be mixing up who it was.) 22:29:02 I would hope to write a roguelike game in JavaScript. I can write the terminal interfacing library and possibly involving to call stty as an external program to make the terminal acting properly for this purpose. Possibly even multi-players mode can be added on to 22:30:32 Writing the serialization is the other thing to do, but I think I have the reasonable ideas about how to do that. 22:33:31 zzo38: the hard part of roguelike is the game design (figuring out the rules so that you get a good game) and interface design 22:35:39 wob_jonas: Yes, that is some of it too, and much of that stuff I have not thought of yet. I can think of much of the user interface stuff already though; actually even to have a configuration file in JavaScript that can be used to customize the user interface. 22:36:27 (Using such scripts can be used to add macros, to filter messages, etc.) 22:37:49 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:45:29 Oh my god 22:45:34 I can't do this precalc homework 22:45:40 I have integrity 22:45:57 (It wants me to look at the graph and guess what x the extrema are at) 22:46:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:48:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:52:51 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 22:55:06 God I hate it when people invent punctuation, copyright it, and say it's for general use 22:55:12 If it was for general use, it wouldn't be copyrighted 22:55:19 I shouldn't have to pay to write 22:56:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:57:24 I agree with you; to copyright punctuation doesn't make sense. 22:58:10 About this still I am unsure what mana cost or type: "Target opponent chooses artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, or sorcery. Search your library for a card of that type, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library." Do you have any better ideas perhaps? 22:59:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:05:33 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:06:51 zzo38: does it omit planeswalker for a reason? 23:07:37 ais523: yes, that's so you don't have to build a deck that even has a planeswalker that helps your combo. it's hard enough with those six types. 23:07:40 ais523: Yes. 23:07:44 I can see why it omits scheme and plane and vanguard and conspiracy, though 23:07:49 It is for the reason wob_jonas mentioned. 23:07:51 (it would be even worse with tribal) 23:08:10 I think zzo38's ability would work best as a triggered ability on a creature or enchantment 23:08:22 if I place it on a sorcery, it's too weak even at B (which is the correct color) 23:08:26 ais523: like a magpie? I dunno 23:10:04 ais523: wait, why is B the correct color? isn't this a blue ability like that of Gifts Ungiven? 23:10:35 But I did think of another thing too; if it could have a kicker that allows you to reject your opponent's first choice and force them to pick a different type instead; it only works once though. 23:11:03 wob_jonas: gifts ungiven is weird, you can make a case for basically anything to be U 23:11:14 but arguably gifts ungiven is B too 23:11:33 ais523: well ok, it's not really out of place in black either 23:11:39 (compare to fact or fiction, which is definitely blue) 23:11:48 but I don't really like this ability at all, anywhere. it needs to be rethought. 23:13:08 Another alternative to a triggered ability would be an activated ability. 23:13:24 if it was a tap ability that might work 23:13:40 spammable abilities that dig through your library tend to be hard to balance though 23:13:56 eww no. that would cause you to search and shuffle every turn, or more often. can't be enjoyable. 23:14:04 Yes; its cost can have other stuff too though other than just tap 23:14:52 yes, I just meant including tap, not exclusively tap 23:14:53 Such as, mana, discarding, sacrificing, removing counters, etc 23:15:26 huh, I just realised that following the color pie rules it's also legal in green (although that wouldn't be most people's first choice) 23:15:35 zzo38: even so. if you use an activated ability, unless it's a sacrifice this or when this dies ability, it will likely cause the ability to be used repeatedly. a magpie trigger (whenever this deals combat damage to an opponent) would be better. 23:15:43 green can search for a creature or land (or subset of that), and the opponent can always choose to make it search for that rather than something else 23:15:51 so the ability's strictly worse than something green can do 23:16:01 the advantage of the magpie trigger is that it's more interactive, most decks the opponent plays will have a way to fight it. 23:17:00 ais523: um, how easily can green search for an arbitrary creature (as opposed to some more restricted set)? 23:17:12 and especially for a creature and land 23:17:18 Other modification to what I wrote also might be done, maybe 23:17:31 wob_jonas: it's fairly /expensive/ to search for a creature unrestricted, but not out of pie 23:17:36 tooth and nail is the most dramatic example 23:18:07 oh it's not as expensive as tooth and nail I think 23:18:41 tooth and nail is expensive because it can both search and piper expensive creatures, and those two together are very dangerous 23:19:00 "Elder" is an irregular form of "Older" 23:19:02 green used to have the piper ability back when expensive creatures without mana costs didn't yet exist 23:19:06 I need a similar word for "Younger" 23:19:18 it even had a piper specifically for elves I think, when all elves were tiny 23:19:20 Yenger 23:19:22 easy 23:19:26 myname: Yeah, probably not 23:19:34 (If there is none, I've made up "Inggere" and will now use it forever) 23:19:51 Is there any common word paired? 23:19:53 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 23:19:59 or did I only dream that? hmm 23:20:30 s/Inggere/Ynggere/ 23:20:52 wob_jonas: I can't think offhand of a creature with no mana cost that's powerful to reanimate 23:21:13 if it were green, you could do it with Green Sun's Zenith (which is sufficiently powerful that it's banned in Modern) 23:21:25 ais523: I'm not thinking of no mana cost 23:21:26 Dryad Arbor has no mana cost but it's not exactly the most broken thing to cheat into play 23:21:44 but pipering creatures with large mana cost for a fixed cost 23:22:00 -!- ais523 has changed nick to callforjudgement. 23:22:15 wob_jonas: ah right 23:22:37 if you believe Un-sets to be authorities on colour pie, there's always Timmy 23:22:39 who is almost literally that 23:22:52 well you said Tooth or Nail 23:23:05 and for un-sets, isn't Ach, Hans a better example? 23:23:20 that's also green, isn't it? 23:23:46 ah there is! Skyshroud Poucher 23:25:06 Skyshroud Poucher lets you put any elf into play each of your turns starting from your fourth 23:25:41 from hand or from library? I guess from hand? 23:25:58 `card-by-name Skyshroud Poacher 23:26:01 no, it lets you search your library and put directly to play 23:26:09 Skyshroud Poacher \ 2GG \ Creature -- Human Rebel \ 2/2 \ {3}, {T}: Search your library for an Elf permanent card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ NE-R 23:26:34 in an elf deck you can probably get that out early 23:26:43 but it seems too expensive to be useful in combo elves 23:27:08 I think all elves were tiny when that got printed, they didn't even have the 6/6 Wirewood Guardian yet 23:28:36 What if you will make mine different such as: Opponent selects two of those six types, and then you can search your library for one of each. 23:28:41 callforjudgement: yes, the problem is more that you can't protect it, you won't even have mana to cast your Vines of Vastwood on it 23:29:54 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 23:30:55 zzo38: I wonder, would it read better without an explicit list, like "An opponent chooses four card types. Search your library for a card that doesn't have any of those types, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library." 23:31:47 zzo38: what if you don't make it a tutor, but instead some cheap repeatable effect where the opponent chooses types, you reveal the top card of your library, put it at the bottom of the library if the opponent guesses right, to your hand if he guesses wrong? 23:32:09 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:32:12 nah, still not very good 23:34:49 wob_jonas: Maybe it might be better if opponent just chooses four card types, I suppose. 23:35:17 I choose vanguard, scheme, plane, and conspiracy 23:35:23 Like you said, then you can search for a card that does not have any of those types. 23:35:41 (None of the cards in a library will have the types vanguard, scheme, plane, or conspiracy.) 23:35:54 (And therefore you may then take any card.) 23:35:58 is vanguard even a real card type these days? 23:36:19 Yes. 23:36:36 there are a few things that appear in card type position but aren't card types 23:36:39 like Token and Emblem 23:36:40 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 23:36:50 (arguably Token is in supertype position, it's kind-of hard to tell) 23:36:56 Those aren't card types; I call them "pseudotypes". 23:37:31 well, they're the equivalent of Card, rather than Creature or Legendary 23:37:39 maybe they're hypertypes, given that they're more general than supertypes 23:37:54 Yes, in that case they are that kind of thing; "pseudotypes" is something more general. 23:38:33 aren't emblems a new sort of object these days, besides cards in a zone, activated or triggered abilities on the stack, tokens in a zone, copies of spells? 23:38:42 (A pseudotype is never part of an object's text and is never a characteristic.) 23:38:58 wob_jonas: Yes, they are a new sort of object. 23:39:22 Other sorts of objects are copies of cards, copies of spells, tokens, abilities on stack, like you say. 23:39:33 "copies of cards"? 23:40:24 wob_jonas: you can copy an exiled card, although I think the copy immediately dissipates if you don't immediately cast it 23:40:31 aren't there only copies of spells (which usually are in exile or on the stack), tokens (which may be created as copies of a permanent), permanents that currently copy a permanent? 23:40:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:40:54 and copies of spells work completely differently from copying a permanent, they're just accidentally named the same, as far as I can see 23:41:08 In some cases copies of cards are created and then cast (such as cipher). 23:41:17 wob_jonas: there's a template along the lines of "you may copy the exiled instant, and may cast the copy" 23:41:29 `card-by-name Trait Doctoring 23:41:30 Trait Doctoring \ U \ Sorcery \ Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one color word with another or one basic land type with another until end of turn. \ Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of 23:41:33 zzo38: yes, that's why a copy of a spell can be in exile. 23:41:37 hmm 23:41:39 (If the copy is not cast, it ceases to exist.) 23:41:44 `card-by-name Hidden Strings 23:41:45 Hidden Strings \ 1U \ Sorcery \ You may tap or untap target permanent, then you may tap or untap another target permanent. \ Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost.) \ DGM-C 23:41:51 there we go 23:42:02 the point is that the copy isn't a spell until you cast it 23:42:03 wob_jonas: It isn't a spell while it is anywhere other than the stack. 23:42:19 so temporarily, it's just a copy of a card 23:42:25 HackEgo's database should be updated with Eldritch Moon by the way 23:42:36 wob_jonas: it should also be updated with Kaladesh 23:42:39 full spoiler's out now 23:42:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:42:54 cfj: no, it's still a copy of a spell, because the template it's made from is a copy. it's just that that copy-of-a-spell is not currently a spell 23:43:03 cfj: oh, is it out already? nice 23:43:11 wob_jonas: what spell is it copying, though? 23:43:36 Hidden Strings itself is in exile 23:43:49 and the stack has nothing but a triggered ability that's trying to resolve 23:44:01 callforjudgement: oh... um, I don't know how that works then 23:44:15 wob_jonas: it makes a copy of Hidden Strings in exile, then allows you to cast the copy 23:44:18 if you don't the copy just disappears again 23:44:21 I guess I don't understand how all those rules work 23:44:33 you're probably right 23:44:40 but it's a copy-of-a-card, which can be cast, and which disappears upon resolution or being countered 23:44:51 sort of like a copy-of-a-spell except that it isn't a spell that was copied 23:44:57 ok 23:45:10 (compare to token-copy-of-a-permanent, which is a token in addition to being a copy) 23:50:17 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:50:53 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 2016-09-18: 00:05:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:07:14 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 00:08:20 De Morganmon: Gotta not catch not any of 'em all! 00:08:26 s/ all// 00:11:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:15:48 I made a good pun about De Morgan's laws once. 00:15:56 Unfortunately it's confidential. 00:16:22 just tell us the dual pun, it should only be nfidential 00:16:49 Unfortunately the best I can get is a contranfindential 00:16:52 pun 00:16:52 oerjan: Things that are nfidential are mandatory knowledge; the fact that you don't know it is a crime 00:17:05 `ping 00:17:05 pong 00:17:35 hi callforjudgement 00:17:42 What is the origin of your nick? 00:17:59 shachaf: nomic 00:18:05 isn't it like a M:tG card? 00:18:14 `card-by-name Call for J 00:18:15 No output. 00:18:28 `random-card call for j 00:18:29 No card found. 00:18:32 huh 00:18:49 `random-card ju[dge].*ment 00:18:49 Avacyn's Judgment \ 1R \ Sorcery \ Madness {X}{R} (If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard.) \ Avacyn's Judgment deals 2 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players. If Avacyn's Judgment's madness cost was paid, it deals X damage di 00:18:52 `random-card ju[dge]*ment 00:18:53 Radiant's Judgment \ 2W \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ UL-C, VMA-C 00:18:55 `random-card ju[dge]*ment 00:18:56 Iona's Judgment \ 4W \ Sorcery \ Exile target creature or enchantment. \ WWK-C 00:19:00 `random-card ju[dge]*ment 00:19:00 Radiant's Judgment \ 2W \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ UL-C, VMA-C 00:19:03 shachaf: http://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/rkeep/current_flr.txt : search for "991/17" to find the relevant part 00:19:03 `random-card ju[dge]*ment 00:19:04 Trostani's Judgment \ 5W \ Instant \ Exile target creature, then populate. (Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of a creature token you control.) \ RTR-C 00:19:04 shachaf: iirc, callforjudgement = ais523 00:19:10 I know that. 00:19:13 `random-card ju[dge]*ment 00:19:14 Council's Judgment \ 1WW \ Sorcery \ Will of the council -- Starting with you, each player votes for a nonland permanent you don't control. Exile each permanent with the most votes or tied for most votes. \ CNS-R, VMA-R 00:19:25 `random-card call for 00:19:26 Call for Blood \ 4B \ Instant -- Arcane \ As an additional cost to cast Call for Blood, sacrifice a creature. \ Target creature gets -X/-X until end of turn, where X is the sacrificed creature's power. \ BOK-C 00:19:32 `random-card [^']..ju[dge]*ment 00:19:33 Day of Judgment \ 2WW \ Sorcery \ Destroy all creatures. \ ZEN-R, M11-R, M12-R 00:19:43 There's a Magic: The Gathering set called Judgment. 00:19:54 shachaf: true 00:20:44 call for juegddment 00:23:13 shachaf: actually the story is a bit more complex than the nomic term, although it's based on that 00:23:45 I don't know the story for any of your nicks, actually. 00:23:48 BlogNomic used to have a method of making anonymous calls for judgement, and they displayed with "CallForJudgment" (US spelling) as the username 00:23:51 What was the third one? 00:24:11 I missed the US spelling though and added an extra e when I read it mentally 00:24:24 "judgment" is the US spelling? 00:24:30 when I started lurking the BlogNomic IRC channel (before I started playing), I decided I'd be anonymous 00:24:36 shachaf: I think "ais523" is because "ais" are the initials of his real names or something 00:24:36 . o O ( now we just need to know what scarf is for ) 00:24:39 so I used callforjudgement as my nick 00:24:42 then things spiralled from there 00:24:58 wob_jonas: ais523 was an autogenerated username by a computer syste 00:24:59 *system 00:25:09 http://blog.dictionary.com/judgement-vs-judgment/ says that the British spelling has no e 00:25:13 however I believe it was configured to use my initials as part of the name 00:25:36 shachaf: I believe it's "judgment" when talking about a legal judgment, in the UK 00:25:50 but "judgement" when talking about someone's judgement (as in, how good they are at making decisions) 00:26:02 shachaf: the spelling is compicated, I never follow it, there's some version without a "d" too (is that only French, or English too?), that's why I used a wildcard 00:26:04 I see. 00:26:22 There's also the version where you're talking about what the judge meant. 00:26:27 wob_jonas: "jugement" is French 00:26:32 judgment doesn't make sense 00:34:17 the spelling in norwegian is simple hth: dom 00:34:51 oerjan: isn't that the black one, when judgement is the white one? or somethign 00:34:58 `? dom 00:34:59 dom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:35:02 `random-card doom 00:35:03 Thraben Doomsayer \ 1WW \ Creature -- Human Cleric \ 2/2 \ {T}: Put a 1/1 white Human creature token onto the battlefield. \ Fateful hour -- As long as you have 5 or less life, other creatures you control get +2/+2. \ DKA-R 00:35:09 `random-card doom$ 00:35:10 Crown of Doom \ 3 \ Artifact \ Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, it gets +2/+0 until end of turn. \ {2}: Target player other than Crown of Doom's owner gains control of it. Activate this ability only during your turn. \ C14-R 00:35:13 `random-card doom$ 00:35:14 Eye of Doom \ 4 \ Artifact \ When Eye of Doom enters the battlefield, each player chooses a nonland permanent and puts a doom counter on it. \ {2}, {T}, Sacrifice Eye of Doom: Destroy each permanent with a doom counter on it. \ C13-R 00:35:23 wob_jonas: no hth 00:35:26 oerjan: perhaps you should learn to play magic: the gathering hth 00:35:38 `random-card doom$(?!.*\n.*artifact) 00:35:39 Crackling Doom \ RWB \ Instant \ Crackling Doom deals 2 damage to each opponent. Each opponent sacrifices a creature with the greatest power among creatures he or she controls. \ KTK-R 00:35:47 `random-card doom\nb 00:35:48 Glyph of Doom \ B \ Instant \ Choose target Wall creature. At this turn's next end of combat, destroy all creatures that were blocked by that creature this turn. \ LE-C 00:35:57 `random-card doom\nbb 00:35:58 No card found. 00:36:21 shachaf: no hth 00:36:25 ah, it's called 00:36:29 `random-card damn 00:36:30 Choice of Damnations \ 5B \ Sorcery -- Arcane \ Target opponent chooses a number. You may have that player lose that much life. If you don't, that player sacrifices all but that many permanents. \ SOK-R 00:36:40 `random-card damn.*\n2bb 00:36:41 Damnation \ 2BB \ Sorcery \ Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated. \ PLC-R 00:36:45 not doom 00:36:59 darnation 00:39:43 `? damnation 00:39:44 damnation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:41:07 `learn The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no longer held and they got flooded. 00:41:10 Learned 'damnation': The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no longer held and they got flooded. 00:43:55 (Product is ×; n-ary product is ∏. n-ary coproduct is ∐; what is normal coproduct?) 00:44:07 (My font messed up ∏ and ∐ 00:44:09 ) 00:45:15 n-ary coproduct is Σ 00:45:35 `unidecode ∐ 00:45:36 ​[U+2210 N-ARY COPRODUCT] 00:45:42 If you like to learn rules of Magic: the Gathering cards, this is rules http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ (this is an unofficial copy of the rules that includes hyperlinks) 00:46:18 And then you also have to learn the cards, too. 00:46:43 `unidecode × 00:46:44 ​[U+00D7 MULTIPLICATION SIGN] 00:46:44 You don't have to learn the cards. 00:46:53 `unicode ADDITION SIGN 00:46:55 No output. 00:46:58 wat 00:47:14 `icode ∐ 00:47:14 ​[U+2210 N-ARY COPRODUCT] 00:47:26 Well, not all of the cards; only the ones in use. But unless they are very old cards, the current text is written on the cards themself. 00:47:29 `unicode [ADDITION SIGN] 00:47:32 U+0000 \ UTF-8: 00 UTF-16BE: 0000 Decimal: � \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0001 \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal:  \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, C 00:47:46 Why are you expecting there to be an ADDITION SIGN? 00:47:48 wat 00:47:50 `unicode PLUS 00:47:51 U+002B PLUS SIGN \ UTF-8: 2b UTF-16BE: 002b Decimal: + \ + \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ES (European Number Separator) \ \ U+00B1 PLUS-MINUS SIGN \ UTF-8: c2 b1 UTF-16BE: 00b1 Decimal: ± \ ± \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ET (European Number Terminator) \ \ U+02D6 MODIFIER LETTER PLUS SIGN \ UTF-8: cb 96 UTF-16BE: 0 00:47:53 (Some very old cards are written very different than expecting of current rule) 00:48:04 shachaf: logic. oh hm. 00:51:28 * oerjan somehow cannot be bothered to look up the actual answer. 00:51:58 What actual answer? 00:52:15 to hppavilion[2]'s question. 00:52:19 -!- dos has joined. 00:52:38 Didn't I answer it? 00:52:40 no. 00:53:01 `welcome dos 00:53:04 dos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:53:06 Why not? 00:53:08 you just rejected part of what he said, despite it being clearly correct hth 00:53:09 -!- dos has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 00:53:17 scow 00:53:23 `unwelcome dos 00:53:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unwelcome: not found 00:53:34 ...why don't we have `unwelcome? 00:54:04 hppavilion[1]: we call that /kickban hth 00:54:15 hpp: because we have too many stupid welcome variants. including stupid ones I created. 00:54:15 Oh 00:54:26 `relcome dos 00:54:29 ​dos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:54:29 `dowg welcome 00:54:30 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:54:31 2015-05-24 sed -i \'s/on irc.*/on EFnet or DALnet.)/\' wisdom/welcome \ 2014-05-29 sed -i \'s!wiki/Main_Page!!\' wisdom/welcome \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2013-11-01 sed -i \'s#http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page##\' wisdom/welcome \ 2013-02-13 `unrelcome dos 00:54:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unrelcome: not found 00:54:45 `wälcåmä dos 00:54:46 dos: Wälcåmä tå thä intärnatiånal hub for äsotäric programming language däsign and däplåyment! Får mårä infårmatiån, check out åur wiki: . (Får thä åther kind åf esåtärica, try #esoteric ån ÄFnät år DALnet.) 00:55:19 `emoclew hppavilion[1] 00:55:20 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :]1[noilivapph 00:55:27 this is the closest hth 00:55:42 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:55:45 oerjan: That works, but we're trying to unwelcome dos 00:55:52 `emoclew dos 00:55:53 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :sod 00:56:12 ``` wälcåmä dos | rev 00:56:13 rev: stdin: Invalid or incomplete multibyte or wide character 00:56:28 ``` wälcåmä dos | LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 rev 00:56:30 oerjan: (also, when it reversed it didn't flip the [ and ]. that's a problem imho) 00:56:30 ​).tänLAD ro tänFE no cirätåse# yrt ,acirätosä fo dnik rähtå äht råF( .>/gro.sgnalåsä//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuå kcähc ,noitamrofni ärom råF !tnämyålped dna ngisäd egaugnal gnimmargårp cirätose råf buh lanåitanretni eht åt ämocleW :sod 00:57:10 `` locale 00:57:11 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 00:57:39 wob_jonas: what's the difference between `` and ``` again? just that ``` is less likely to be malicious? 00:57:49 `` wälcåmä dos | rev 00:57:50 ​).tänLAD ro tänFÄ no cirätåsä# yrt ,acirätåse få dnik rehtå eht råF( .>/grå.sgnalåsä//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcähc ,noitamråfni äråm roF !tnämyolpäd dna ngisäd ägaugnal gnimmargorp ciretåse råf buh lanåitanretni äht åt emåcläW :såd 00:58:07 ais523: ``` unsets the locale, and allows brace expansion iirc 00:58:13 I keep forgetting the point of ``` as well. 00:58:14 but I think now `` also allows brace expansion 00:58:16 wob_jonas: this is one of the things you'd use `` instead of ``` for hth 00:58:17 ah 00:58:21 I didn't know there was ``` 00:58:21 fizzie: unsets the locale 00:58:23 unsetting the locale is probably not what you wanted to do in this case 00:58:49 oerjan: yes, it's obvious in retrospect, but I didn't remember what locale `` used and didn't want to mess up again, so I just set it explicitly 00:59:01 fizzie: No, reverse wälcåmä is ämåcläw 00:59:16 (maybe we need a random `welcome chooser?) 00:59:38 hpp: wälcåmä is somewhat random 00:59:39 yes but it also needs a randomly chosen name that's different each time you use it 00:59:49 FWIW, emoclew is not just welcome | rev. 00:59:59 It explicitly undoes the reversal of the parentheses. 01:00:16 `which emoclaw 01:00:17 No output. 01:00:22 With a "tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\<" step. 01:00:29 that is, it reverses the parentheses? 01:00:33 `emoclew walrus() 01:00:35 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :()surlaw 01:00:44 `cat bin/emoclew 01:00:45 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\< 01:00:56 whereas rev (I guess) just outputs them in the original order so they're the wrong way around 01:01:00 But it doesn't fix [/] or {/}. Fail. 01:01:09 There are no such in the welcome. 01:01:23 is there a Unicode property for being used in pairs with another character? 01:01:28 wob_jonas: No, I mean a `rnwelc or somesuch that chooses one of our many fine stupid welcome variants 01:01:31 together with a function for finding the other end of the pair? 01:01:35 ais523: I think so, actually 01:01:37 yeah, there's a list of pairs somewhere 01:01:45 `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\[\],;s, sed: -e expression #1, char 21: unterminated `s' command 01:01:47 At the very least there's a file 01:01:55 e.g. bidi involves flipping of those in the correct way 01:02:02 `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\[\],;s,<,<\]\[, 01:02:05 bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<][\>[] \)\(\>\< 01:02:07 ais523: I don't know, but I think there's a property for pairs of parenthesis that are reversed if used in rtl writing, so that an opening parenthesis ( is rendered shown backwards in rtl text 01:02:11 `emoclew hppavilion[1] 01:02:12 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :<1 oops 01:02:17 ... 01:02:30 `revert 01:02:43 ……… 01:02:43 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:02:48 ……… ……… ……… 01:03:10 sgnalose.org is available, if anyone wants it 01:03:10 but it gets more complicated than that of course, with cjk punctuation that are rotated and shifted in vertical writing, possibly in different ways depending on whether the language is chinese or japanese; and with the question mark ? that gets mirrored in some rtl languages but not all 01:03:19 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:03:32 so eventually it's horribly complicated and you just leave it all for proper text rendering engines to handle it 01:03:44 it doesn't change semantics anyway, only visuals 01:04:04 `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\\[\\],;s,<,<\\]\\[, 01:04:06 bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<\]\[\>\[\] \)\(\>\< 01:04:21 wtf is this 01:04:23 oh 01:04:25 `revert 01:04:27 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:05:09 oerjan: great, now add angle brackets and floor/ceil brackets too 01:06:02 `sled bin/emoclew//s,tr.*,tr '()<>[]{}' ')(><][}{', 01:06:04 bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr '()<>[]{}' ')(><][}{' 01:06:17 wob_jonas: those are not legal in irc nicks hth 01:06:21 `emoclew hppavilion[1] 01:06:22 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :[1]noilivapph 01:06:26 oh, you're only mirroring nicks? 01:06:26 finally 01:06:26 ok 01:06:40 ty 01:06:44 wob_jonas: well that and the welcome message 01:06:47 oerjan: mirror 01:06:50 \ to / 01:07:07 um... 01:07:08 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( When should ⋰ be used as punctuation⋰ ) 01:07:13 The letters themselves aren't being mirrored. 01:07:20 Imma reboot my client 01:07:24 The font is wonky 01:07:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:07:27 and e to ɘ 01:07:34 wob_jonas: no. 01:07:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:07:51 http://www.bash.org/?330261 01:07:54 we added brackets only because they look bad mismatched. 01:10:00 hmm, now I'm surprised that the #3 post on bash.org doesn't seem to have spawned a meme 01:10:14 you'd expect most of them to have done, and indeed, most of them did 01:10:20 so that seems quite a way up 01:11:04 Huh, in the Masons, ∴ is used in S∴S∴A∴A∴s (Symbol Separated Abbreviations and Acronyms) rather than . 01:11:25 I move that #esoteric adopt that as a rule. 01:11:51 ∵ 01:11:52 hmm 01:12:06 I need more compose key training 01:12:07 ∴ 01:12:09 there we go 01:15:19 `unicode ( 01:15:22 U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS \ UTF-8: 28 UTF-16BE: 0028 Decimal: ( \ ( \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 01:15:57 `unicode ? 01:15:59 U+003F QUESTION MARK \ UTF-8: 3f UTF-16BE: 003f Decimal: ? \ ? \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 01:16:19 `unicode ! 01:16:20 U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK \ UTF-8: 21 UTF-16BE: 0021 Decimal: ! \ ! \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 01:16:54 doesn't look like ? is special there 01:17:43 oerjan: yes, that visual stuff is probably encoded only in the properties in the font, not in unicode properties. 01:18:29 wob_jonas: ( was special 01:20:50 The character properties include Ps/Pe (punctuation, open/close) and Pi/Pf (punctuation, initial/final quote). 01:22:05 And the other special thing that's there is the Bidi_Mirrored flag and its associated Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph "pointer". 01:22:46 `emocler 01:22:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: emocler: not found 01:22:52 fizzie: ok, I believe you 01:22:58 The latter one is: "Informative mapping for substituting characters in an implementation of bidirectional mirroring. This maps a subset of characters with the Bidi_Mirrored property to other characters that normally are displayed with the corresponding mirrored glyph. When a character with the Bidi_Mirrored property has the default value for Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph, that means that no other ... 01:22:58 i am disappointed 01:23:00 I don't really know about it, software does all that for me 01:23:04 ... character exists whose glyph is appropriate for character-based glyph mirroring. Implementations must then use other mechanisms to implement mirroring of those characters for the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm." 01:23:13 as in, in case I ever want to render rtl text 01:23:26 which I don't often do 01:25:22 There's 182 pairs in BidiMirroring.txt, and it also contains comments listing 181 characters as having no appropriate mirroring character. 01:25:52 oh, for a moment I thought you were going to say that ( was the only character that mirrored 01:26:00 and Unicode hadn't got around to the other 181 yet 01:27:00 well there's not pointer in the above ( entry 01:27:03 *no 01:27:21 Python's unicodedata module has a function for the 'mirrored' attribute, but not one for the mirror glyph mapping. 01:27:23 i wonder why they consider ) not appropriate... 01:27:30 oh. 01:28:23 fizzie: oh wait, 182 pairs. i interpreted that similarly to ais523. 01:28:30 because 182 = 181+1 01:28:37 Yes, they're suspiciously close numbers. 01:28:47 coincidences happen 01:30:10 http://sprunge.us/DjAA has the full list. 01:30:17 In my file with the custom cards now I hoped to have written all of the new rules involved properly. Please tell me if you think there is anything wrong or unclear or whatever. http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt 01:32:07 `unidecode ༺ 01:32:07 ​[U+0F3A TIBETAN MARK GUG RTAGS GYON] 01:32:59 what's the left-to-rightness of the line drawing characters? 01:33:59 ais523: ask lifthrasiir about that 01:34:21 If there is anything wrong with what I wrote, or if you have confirmed if it is OK, then please tell me. 01:36:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:42:05 ais523: I think they're all character property "Symbol, Other" with bidi type "other neutrals" (ON). 01:42:35 The "characters with unusual properties" section of the standard says: "Many other characters behave in special ways but are not noted here, either because they do not affect surrounding text in the same way or because their use is intended for well-defined contexts. Examples include the compatibility characters for block drawing, --" 01:43:54 wait, those are compatibility characters? 01:44:07 someone go invent a language in which they're important for meaning 01:44:16 and a natural language, not Funciton 01:45:10 ais523: "All of these characters are intended for compatibility with character cell graphic sets in use prior to 1990." From the "Box Drawing" (2500-257F) block character sheet. 01:45:45 "prior to 1990" hehe 01:46:10 I time travel every time I run aptitude to update things. 01:54:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:01:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:05:20 -!- augur has joined. 02:17:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:17:39 -!- augur has joined. 02:18:38 `8-ball I don't need that, right? 02:18:40 Ask again later. 02:18:46 ok ok 02:20:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:47:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:48:20 -!- augur has joined. 02:54:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:20:07 Character cell graphic sets are still in use now; it isn't only prior to 1990 that they were used, although they were in use then, too. 03:52:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:58:43 I typically use some sort of fabric as a substitute, though. <-- me too 04:34:20 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 04:45:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:49:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:54:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:03:55 T h i si sa ne x a m p l eo fr e v e r s ee n g l i s hk e r n i n ga n ds p a c i n g 05:11:48 ai foa wan shinku zatto izzu teriburu. 05:18:15 hppavilion[1]: nice convention 05:18:36 [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49734&oldid=49051 * DJMcMayhem * (-996) Changed the sample division code to a newer, shorter, more robust version. 05:21:20 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:37:05 pikhq: What's that one? 05:37:17 `picketfence ai foa wan shinku zatto izzu teriburu. 05:37:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: picketfence: not found 05:45:40 hppavilion[1]: That's transcribing English to Japanese to English. 05:45:53 Oooooh 05:46:12 As in, translate then anglicize? 05:46:25 No, no, just transcribing. No translation involved. 05:46:39 pikhq: Non-rhotic English? 05:46:58 Transcribe to fit Japanese writing (and phoneme set), and then perform standard romanization back. 05:47:32 shachaf: Transcriptions into Japanese script tend to be fairly non-rhotic because there is only one syllable-terminal consonant in Japanese. 05:48:03 Is "foa" better than e.g. "foru"? 05:48:10 Yes, it sounds closer. 05:48:27 pikhq: Do you compulsively transcribe Japanese text to English letters? 05:48:38 That would be romantic. 05:48:48 Not really. Just sometimes to be polite. 05:49:15 too late, i already made my pun 05:49:21 "foru" sounds pretty weird as a transcription of "for", because "ru" sounds nothing like a rhoticized vowel at all. 05:49:30 Fair enough. 05:50:02 (Japanese "r" is an alveolar tap) 05:51:30 I was at a Japanese store today. 05:51:35 I got some mysterious Japanese candies. 05:53:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:56:27 shachaf: Was it there yesterday and will it be there tomorrow? 05:56:32 Spiffy. 05:57:23 "Most people recognize that when dealing with questions of physics, biology, chemistry, etc., they need to ask an expert, whereas with linguistics, many people don't even realize that there are experts to be asked. " 06:02:17 http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/sapir-worf_2620.jpg 06:02:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:20:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:21:13 -!- augur has joined. 06:45:21 -!- DancingChoice has joined. 06:54:13 -!- DancingChoice has left ("Sto andando via"). 07:07:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:09:23 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:24:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:59:43 <\oren\> There's been a terrorist attack in manhattan 08:02:49 Interesting, because officially they're talking of an "intentional act". 'De Blasio says "there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection" and there is no "credible and specific threat" to New York City.' 08:03:55 <\oren\> I view any event where someone plants bombs in trashcans as a terror attack. 08:04:45 <\oren\> It's certainly not a normal military tactic. 08:06:50 <\oren\> unless of course we want to go back to before the geneva conventon was a thing 08:07:30 I tend to agree. I think what Blasio is saying is essentially that they haven't found any political background or larger conspiracy behind it. 08:07:48 <\oren\> right, they don't know who did it or why 08:08:32 <\oren\> apparently they've found several other pressure cooker bombs 08:08:53 Anyway, it's really too early to be sure about anything. 08:09:42 Nobody died so far, it seems... that's a small relief. 08:16:12 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:23:43 -!- petsu has quit (K-Lined). 08:51:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:54:45 <\oren\> apparently in the uk, a dumpster is called a "skip" 09:00:19 \oren\, I don't really use the word "dumpster" (am from the UK) but if what I know about the word is correct, a skip is an open dumpster generally used for rubble 09:17:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:18:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:36:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:42:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:55:15 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:00:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:02:55 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:27:04 I think the ONLY good option in this election is that Hillary wins then promptly dies (not that I want her dead (please don't hurt me FBI), but she just happens to die (better would be resigning (but we all know that's never going to happen) or otherwise incapacitated)), leading Tim Kaine to ascend to the presidency 10:27:55 (I checked a Trump necrovictory scenario, but GOD I couldn't stand President Mike Pence) 10:28:39 Pence was against tobacco regulation because "2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness" 10:28:52 Oh, only 33% of smokers are killed from it? That's practically none! 10:33:38 hppavilion[1], I don't really see what's so bad about Clinton, other than she's a bit too much of the status quo 10:34:04 Taneb: I think she's just a bit of an idiot, a bit out of touch 10:34:49 (There was the controversy where she used 19 phones and said only 1; I don't think that she was lying, I think she just didn't realize that getting a new phone and loading the data from the previous one constitutes a new phone) 10:35:05 hppavilion[1], so, like every politician ever? 10:35:13 Taneb: Well... yeah, basically 10:35:30 In fact, probably like Tim Kaine? 10:36:06 Also, she was a Hawk on the Iraq war (apparently) 10:36:45 This is a crazy election; we know how one candidate stood on the war in Iraq because of how they voted, and where the OTHER one stood because of /an interview with Howard Stern/ 10:38:24 She's also very... fabricated 10:41:42 She's against Snowden 10:44:14 She voted for the Patriot Act (then again, only one person didn't) 10:44:24 She's a fan of 'working with Silicon Valley to "prevent online radicalization."' 10:44:37 Which sounds pretty sinister 10:46:00 Her statements on Church and State look... vague 10:47:23 She wants to... jesus, she wants to make Flag Desecration a crime 10:48:55 And supports faith-based initiatives 10:51:13 Hillary opposed same-sex marriage in 2000 10:51:28 (but I guess her position could have changed?) 10:52:25 She promised to "appoint Native Americans to key positions in a number of federal departments and agencies", which is very affirmative action 10:54:32 After the Dallas police shootings, she "called on white Americans to empathize with black Americans" (we're talking the guy who murdered police here) 10:57:43 "Clinton said in 2016 that if elected president, she will fill half of her Cabinet with women, a move that would be historic in the United States." affirmative action 11:00:40 /r 11:47:26 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:58:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:59:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:22:59 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. 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cool 21:56:28 ^^ 21:56:31 nope 21:56:44 you can literally just set one up 21:57:04 I signed up in the first (?) phase, had to wait three weeks to get approved 22:02:00 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:06:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:08:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:25:39 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:30:22 nortti, how do you know it's not just a simulation of on 23:30:24 *one 23:38:27 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2016-09-19: 00:16:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:43:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:44:14 I have just proven the reflexive property 00:44:16 I am a god 00:45:23 i think you only proved that you are you, and god is a god hth 00:45:36 * Zarutian names hppavilion[1] as the god of compile time programmer musings. 00:46:22 oerjan: "I am a god" follows from several other theorems; I did not feel the need to document my full proof here, as it was irrelevant 00:46:34 OKAY 00:47:44 Is STOP on the wiki? 00:48:08 if there only was a way to find out... 00:48:22 @google STOP site:esolangs.org 00:48:23 https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Stop_h_time 00:48:35 INCONCLUSIVE 00:48:56 https://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/53a92v/stop_a_codeisdata_language/ 00:49:03 I have no idea whether it's interesting 00:51:12 probably not on the wiki. 01:02:19 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 01:04:18 some guy took over gmane and is working on making some of the existing functionality accessible: http://home.gmane.org/ 01:04:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:22:16 Hm, so the US is a Federation whereas the Confederacy was, well, a Confederation 01:23:23 In both, you have an overarching government and smaller regional governments 01:23:56 But in a federation, the overarching government takes precedence, whereas in a confederation the regional governments hold more power 01:33:42 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:42:47 hello 01:42:56 hellopia 01:56:40 what have i missed? 01:57:22 <_46bit> you missed your fear of missing out 01:57:31 <_46bit> and therefore have conquered your universe 01:57:32 a lot of MtG and a lot of hppavilion[1]y weirdness. 01:57:33 <_46bit> or something 01:57:58 `? mtg 01:58:10 MTG is short for Money Tapping Game. 01:59:35 * oerjan still wishes he could think of a better synonym in T 02:00:57 also Sgeo_ linked to someone's new language on r/esolangs 02:01:52 -!- Caesura has joined. 02:05:07 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:06:19 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 02:06:20 -!- Caesura has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:08:28 -!- torrealba2719 has joined. 02:12:27 -!- torrealba2719 has left ("Saliendo"). 02:17:41 http://blog.unicode.org/2016/05/icu-joins-unicode-consortium.html ICU joins the Unicode Consortium -- wow 02:20:20 what's the icu again? International Consortium of Unicode? 02:20:52 Elrond: no, it's that big well-maintained localization library 02:21:01 http://site.icu-project.org/ 02:21:04 a low-level library 02:22:02 ah 02:22:04 makes sense 02:22:04 much of it deals with unicode, though not all 02:22:18 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 02:24:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 02:29:49 <\oren\> argh I want icecream but I already ate all of it 02:30:18 buy more! 02:30:44 <\oren\> hmm is it possible to make icecream 02:31:36 <\oren\> I'm going to try to do it 02:31:45 <\oren\> I have a blendtec blender 02:34:28 dammit \oren\ 02:34:32 now I want ice cream 02:39:20 <\oren\> I made something resembling a very thick milkshake 02:39:26 <\oren\> i 02:39:34 <\oren\> ll count this as success 02:42:13 <\oren\> recipe: milk, molasses, sugar, lots of ice 02:43:08 <\oren\> blend at high speed until no chunks of ice left. blend at low speed until it resembles ice cream 02:43:50 <\oren\> I think it would have fully frozen if there was more molasses and ice and less milk 02:45:08 <\oren\> or maybe if I use d ice cubes made of forxen milk? 02:58:48 nah 03:00:23 oh for fuck's sake 03:00:36 my program seg-faults *sometimes* 03:00:50 which makes sense 03:00:58 because I'm accessing locations in an array 03:01:10 and those locations are decided randomly 03:02:09 Woo! Made a rotating Caesar cypher! 03:02:35 physically out of paper? 03:02:38 or on a computer? 03:02:44 (It's a caesar cypher, but the alphabet shifts each time by a set interval) 03:03:16 oic 03:03:27 Elronnd: Me? 03:03:29 so the first character shifts by 1, the second by 2, etc? 03:03:33 hppavilion[1]: yes, you 03:03:35 Elronnd: Yes, for example 03:03:40 But not necessarily 03:04:33 so is it based off the string itself? 03:04:40 Your key is (shift, initshift, delay, cap)- shift is how much the alphabet is shifted each step, initshift is how much the alphabet is shifted initially, delay is how many steps are between shifts (so you might only shift every other step), and cap is an optional number n that resets the alphabet to the initial shift every n steps 03:05:29 With the key (3, 2, 1, 19), "I am santa lord of dankness" becomes "G vh kpcfm uuxg of byiffwhh", and can be easily decrypted back into "I am santa lord of dankness" 03:05:57 Elronnd: No, that makes it impossible to decrypt when intended 03:06:09 I once made a cipher that would add each character of your password to each character of the text 03:06:18 Oooh 03:06:25 ("I am santa lord of dankness" is my current cryptographic test string- I usually use "walrus", but I wanted something longer for this) 03:06:46 but because of the way python works, it was liable to give odd warnings when you gave the wrong password decrypting 03:06:50 I should find that cipher 03:07:06 Elronnd: This is similar to, but not the same as, Viginere 03:07:30 your cipher, or mine? 03:07:41 Elronnd: Mine, I'm still trying to figure out what you mean about how it works 03:07:46 Oh, I see 03:07:52 Elronnd: So kind of like Viginere 03:08:03 In fact, I think yours might ACTUALLY be Viginere, more-or-less 03:08:22 hppavilion[1]: so let's say that the text was "I am santa lord of dankness" 03:08:29 and your pw was "walrus" 03:08:38 first it would add 'w' to 'I' 03:08:43 and then 'a' to ' ' 03:08:47 and then 'l' to 'a' 03:08:49 etc 03:09:13 if you reach the end of the password, you start back at the beginning 03:09:33 Could it be done with (if we replace ascii with just the alphabet) a table of Caesar cyphers, where you choose the /n/th row based on the current letter of your password? 03:09:52 Sounds like you reinvented Viginere, which was considered unbreakable for about 2 centuries :D 03:10:01 (Lots of people have reinvented it before) 03:10:13 nowadays, we have aes 03:10:19 and I don't have a *clue* how that works 03:10:26 Elronnd: Compare it to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigenère_cipher 03:10:35 I don't get AES either 03:10:40 Wait, I thought we used RSA? 03:11:39 I think RSA is key-based 03:11:44 and aes is symmetric 03:11:47 looks similar 03:11:53 hpp: AES is a symmetric cypher, RSA is a public-private key cipher. very different stuff. 03:12:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:12:05 Ah 03:12:08 I see 03:13:44 In practice, since public-key ciphers are slow, they're usually used to encode the key for a symmetric cipher, thus the two combine to a fast public-key cipher. this also has the advantage that you can encrypt the same data with multiple public keys without repeating all the data. 03:15:21 <\oren\> well these days we use double RSA or something 03:16:37 unrelated, but I found what was causing my program to segfault randomly 03:16:55 good 03:17:40 Homophobes don't want to use AES because it's a gay (or "symmetric") cypher; they don't want to use RSA because key-pairing should be saved until after a connection is established 03:18:02 s/Homophobes/Republicans/ 03:34:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:44:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRzl_994Tj8 03:45:01 <\oren\> higurashi no naku koro ni aint what it used to be 03:50:55 [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49736&oldid=49712 * Qwerp-Derp * (+216) Added @ operator 04:08:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:09:53 `? homophone 04:09:59 homophone? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:10:15 `learn Homophones are pairs of words that sound totally gay together. 04:10:24 Learned 'homophone': Homophones are pairs of words that sound totally gay together. 04:10:43 (hppavilion[1] is getting to me) 04:12:41 Ha! 04:27:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:27:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:31:15 -!- nycs has joined. 04:31:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:42:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:42:55 There's something wrong with www.afb.org... 04:43:32 (Though how DOES one design websites for blind people? Most likely just a terminal interface) 04:44:22 s/websites/browsers/ 04:45:23 oerjan: Well yes, that too 04:45:31 But the browser needs good websites usually 04:45:31 you use semantic markup, avoid putting info only in formatting (that is not semantic) or pictures... 04:47:22 Well yeah... 04:47:29 (Have we figured out if Vaping kills you yet?) 04:47:40 (I mean, the answer for the moment is "Yeah, probably") 04:47:54 wikipedia has a project page for accessibility, although that's about wiki markup. 04:48:10 @wn vaping 04:48:11 No match for "vaping". 04:48:48 oh that 04:49:46 oerjan: Yeah 04:49:54 My mom has a friend who vapes 04:50:44 (He's also a cross dresser, in the military, is an internet pirate who DOES own a boat, and a climate change denier because George Carlin) 04:51:32 is everyone you know weird :P 04:51:50 Yes 04:51:55 figures 04:52:03 This is Alaska. 04:52:11 OKAY 04:52:11 My mother has decided she must just gravitate towards these people 04:52:56 (Another friend of hers is a bouncer at Mad Merna's (the local gay bar) (I think it's Mad Merna's), participates in roller derby, and sold socks at the state fair. 04:52:59 ) 04:53:37 Then there was Paul 04:53:49 You've heard of Israel Keys? 04:53:53 no. 04:55:04 oerjan: Serial killer; died a few years back when he killed himself in custody. Last victim was a girl found in a lake- I remember seeing the posters and banners put up by her family looking for her 04:55:49 o kay 04:56:36 Israel Keys was a contractor when he wasn't serial killing. Paul hired him to add an extension to his his house before anyone knew, so he was frequently within physical proximity of a man who had keys to his house. 04:56:53 (Oh, Keyes) 05:20:36 (I think I may be a tad colorblind...) 05:20:55 (But maybe not; depends on whether everyone is like this) 05:41:16 hppavilion[1]: what does colourblindness have to do with reading characters wrong? 05:41:38 Elronnd: Check the timestamps 05:42:29 Elronnd: My favorite encryption I thought of is the "Viginere cypher cypher" 05:42:44 You encrypt random garbage using the message and the other person cracks the cypher and just looks at the key 05:43:01 lol 05:44:30 Elronnd: It's a steganographic cypher 05:53:37 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:59:58 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:06:41 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 06:15:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:17:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 06:27:28 How can you crach them so well if the data is random garabage? 06:31:50 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 06:47:30 Do you like any of the more "proper" card and "Un" cards I made up for the Magic: the Gathering? What comment/question about it please? 07:01:29 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:17:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:12:31 -!- carado has joined. 08:45:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:53:43 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:59:47 -!- gniourf has joined. 09:14:26 -!- fizzie has joined. 09:15:33 -!- espes has joined. 09:22:45 -!- keemyb has joined. 09:22:56 [wiki] [[User:Qwerp-Derp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49737 * Qwerp-Derp * (+521) Created page with "Hello, everyone! My name is Qwerp-Derp. (Don't judge me, it's a good name). Anyway, I am a hobbyist programmer, and I have successfully made my own language, [[Logicode]]. C..." 09:32:35 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:34:12 -!- gniourf has joined. 09:54:31 -!- BooK has joined. 09:56:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:15:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 10:17:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:31:33 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:35:14 -!- nycs has joined. 10:36:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:43:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:56:17 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:57:46 -!- vifino has joined. 11:35:34 -!- nycs has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:41:15 any site with a search bar that isn't as smart as google sucks 11:41:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:41:27 e.g. the pirate bay 11:41:36 pirates of the caribbeans -> 0 results 11:41:44 pirates of the caribbean -> 894573498534 results 11:43:51 i like how bing could not find dr who in the early days, but dr. who was not a problem 11:46:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:49:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:06:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:08:19 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:09:25 -!- digin4 has joined. 12:20:44 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:22:45 -!- deltab has joined. 12:27:09 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:34:31 File tags: 12:34:33 Comment: Why are pirates called pirates?... They just ARRRRRRRR.. 12:34:35 Genre: Action 12:34:37 Title: 01 Pirates Of The Caribbean The Curse Of The Black Pearl - Johnny Depp 2003 Eng Subs 1080p [H264-mp4] 12:39:05 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:50:17 today is talk like a pirate day 12:50:44 Arr, that be so? 13:00:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:12:23 -!- boily has joined. 13:13:57 IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 13:18:36 Gesundheit 13:18:46 lol 13:20:44 APhic, mynamello! 13:21:08 ahoily 13:27:25 hello world 13:30:17 int-ello. 13:30:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:30:26 his523! 13:30:34 I haven't porthelloed people in a long time... 13:31:41 hi 13:44:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:53:03 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:03:12 -!- Akaibu has quit. 14:06:03 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:25:00 -!- Yurume_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:26:18 -!- Yurume_ has joined. 14:31:42 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:32:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:32:39 <\oren\> Clinton's it guy asked how to delete email data on 14:32:43 <\oren\> REDDIT 14:33:10 <\oren\> excellent data on Paul Combetta has been exposed 14:34:11 -!- Kobalt has joined. 14:35:03 <\oren\> jesus christ what an idiot, he used the same username on a porn site as on reddit and steam 14:48:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:50:28 `relcome Kobalt 14:50:34 ​Kobalt: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 14:58:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:02:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:07:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:09:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:14:58 -!- Caesura has joined. 15:18:55 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:26:45 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:28:20 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:33:37 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:35:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:44:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:05:02 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 16:05:36 http://www.quide.eu/ << I highly doubt this is a accurate simulation, i mean really. _quantum computation_ simulation for classical computers written in c# 16:07:46 .buffer 3 16:11:01 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:15:34 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:17:53 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:09 -!- Kobalt has joined. 16:24:59 moonythedwarf: You can simulate quantum computing on a classical computer, but it's extremely inefficient 16:25:21 I think exponential in the number of qubits 16:27:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:28:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:34:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:53:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:55:43 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:56:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 16:59:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 16:59:57 -!- nycs has joined. 17:02:54 -!- nycs has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:03:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:11:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:16:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:46:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONTINENTAL CHICKEN). 17:52:36 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:54:20 -!- Kobalt has joined. 17:55:35 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:47 -!- Kobalt has joined. 18:27:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:31:15 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:31:47 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:32:35 <\oren\> ❄ping why does my bot respond before I activate it 18:32:35 <\oren\> ☃ pong 18:32:43 <\oren\> TIME WARP 18:33:07 `smlist 450 18:33:08 smlist 450: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 18:33:22 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:50:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:51:09 -!- Kobalt has joined. 18:58:40 -!- S1 has joined. 18:59:21 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:59:59 -!- Kobalt has joined. 19:20:17 -!- zgrep has changed nick to Zgrep. 19:21:19 -!- gamemanj has joined. 19:33:18 doot 19:41:32 -!- Zgrep has changed nick to zgrep. 19:44:32 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:44:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kimiyuki * New user account 19:50:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:51:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:59:33 I have thought of some possible extensions for line printer daemon protocol, which can include having the server included in the printer. This includes printer characteristics request, printer status request (such as out of paper), PJL format, and named packed font upload. 20:00:14 Not a lot of changes are needed from the current protocol; there are just a few commands, and is backward compatible too. 20:02:59 Printer characteristics report includes such information as which file formats it supports, amount of available memory for data files, paper size, resolution, etc 20:09:49 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49738&oldid=49725 * Kimiyuki * (+229) /* Introductions */ 20:10:21 yay, it worked! 20:13:37 [wiki] [[Emmental]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49739&oldid=47081 * Kimiyuki * (-28) /* Implementations */ 20:29:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:36:03 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:36:15 Dammit, does unicode not contain a superscript period? 20:36:49 ˙ 20:37:06 `unidecode ˙ 20:37:07 ​[U+02D9 DOT ABOVE] 20:37:53 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:40:52 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:29 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzu15ZezipE 20:41:36 <\oren\> what am i doing with my life 20:42:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:48:42 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:49:46 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:50:08 oren: did you actually watch all of that 20:50:23 <\oren\> yes 20:50:30 -!- Kobalt has joined. 20:50:30 <\oren\> multiple times 20:50:36 I am amazed your courage. 20:50:39 *at your courage 20:51:04 <\oren\> what courage? my brain is slowly melting 20:51:32 oren: 2 + 2 = ? 20:51:39 <\oren\> frog 20:51:44 <\oren\> er, four 20:51:50 ... 20:53:06 oren: finish this sequence: bound sound ?ound 20:53:21 <\oren\> mound 20:53:54 89 + 72 = what? 20:54:07 <\oren\> 420 yolo swag 20:54:25 Error has been identified. I suggest /part #memes. 20:55:45 <\oren\> good call 20:55:53 (Or, alternatively, if you are actually under the influence of subject matter delta-13 (see decryption mapping 87), I suggest not being under the influence of subject matter delta-13.) 20:56:11 <\oren\> I still have that song stuck in my head 20:56:23 <\oren\> pepe come here, and he hops and hops! 20:56:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:56:52 When I see something that I know is going to damage my mind, I close it as soon as possible, and think of an estimate for how long it took for me to close it. 20:57:23 I do not recommend posting these estimates into IRC. 20:58:35 so far no-one has beaten kobalt's python sandbox 20:58:43 ~>py> def foo(): 20:58:52 ~>py> print 'bar' 20:58:56 ~>py> foo(); 20:58:59 ~>pyr 20:59:01 ​bar | 20:59:05 ~>pyc print 1+1 20:59:08 ​2 | 20:59:14 even with limited multiline 20:59:45 -!- brandonson has joined. 21:01:24 -!- brandonson has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 21:01:27 ~>import antigravity;# 21:01:42 -!- brandonson has joined. 21:01:58 moonythedwarf: do you expect it to be beatable? 21:02:00 ~>py> import antigravity; 21:02:19 moonythedwarf: Did a browser window just appear? 21:03:29 oh, wait, I see, it's multiline stuff, so... 21:03:33 ~>pyr 21:03:36 ​Traceback (most recent call last): | File "app_main.py", line 72, in run_toplevel | File "app_main.py", line 578, in run_it | File "", line 1, in | File "/bin/lib-python/2.7/antigravity.py", line 2, in | 21:03:55 aw, it saw through the evil plot. Interesting that it got all the way to running antigravity.py, though 21:04:22 ?>for x in xrange(100): print ("FizzBuzz" if x % 15 == 0 else "Fizz" if x % 3 == 0 else "Buzz" if x % 5 == 0 else x) 21:04:22 Unknown command, try @list 21:04:27 ~>for x in xrange(100): print ("FizzBuzz" if x % 15 == 0 else "Fizz" if x % 3 == 0 else "Buzz" if x % 5 == 0 else x) 21:04:44 admittedly fizzbuzzes don't normally start at 0 21:05:00 ~>for x in range(1,20): print ("FizzBuzz" if x % 15 == 0 else "Fizz" if x % 3 == 0 else "Buzz" if x % 5 == 0 else x) 21:05:30 ~>py> for x in range(1,20): print ("FizzBuzz" if x % 15 == 0 else "Fizz" if x % 3 == 0 else "Buzz" if x % 5 == 0 else x) 21:05:32 ~>pyr 21:05:34 ​1 | 2 | Fizz | 4 | Buzz | Fizz | 7 | 8 | Fizz | Buzz | 11 | Fizz | 13 | 14 | FizzBuzz | 16 | 17 | Fizz | 19 | 21:06:24 dont mind me, stealing hackego's line seperator format, also, ~>pyc works better for singleline 21:06:25 ~>pyc import os; os.system("echo hello"); 21:06:27 ​Traceback (most recent call last): | File "app_main.py", line 72, in run_toplevel | File "app_main.py", line 578, in run_it | File "", line 1, in | RuntimeError | 21:06:30 ~>pyc print 1+1 21:06:31 ​2 | 21:07:45 ~>pyc open("/etc/passwd").read() 21:07:46 ​Traceback (most recent call last): | File "app_main.py", line 72, in run_toplevel | File "app_main.py", line 578, in run_it | File "", line 1, in | IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/etc/passwd' | [Subprocess exit code: 1] 21:08:04 fake directorys are amazing 21:08:10 hmm, it can get as far as determining that the file isn't there 21:08:20 so I assume you have some sort of emulated/contained filesystem 21:08:27 ais523: you know this is pypy-c-sandbox right 21:08:38 moonythedwarf: I assumed there was /some/ sandbox but didn't know which 21:09:03 and probing the limits of bot sandboxes is a #esoteric pastime 21:09:05 yea, pypy-c-sandbox i've personally agreed with myself that its really strong and this sentence makes no sense 21:10:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:10:27 > text$unwords[max(s++t)(show n)|s<-cycle["Fizz","",""]|t<-cycle["Buzz","","","",""]|n<-[1..100]] 21:10:39 > text$unwords[max(s++t)(show n)|s<-cycle["Fizz","",""]|t<-cycle["Buzz","","","",""]|n<-[1..100]] 21:10:41 FizzBuzz 2 3 Fizz 5 Buzz Fizz 8 9 Fizz Buzz 12 Fizz 14 15 FizzBuzz 17 18 Fiz... 21:10:48 oh, hah 21:11:03 Is there any sort of file that can be used to compile extensions meant for Perl or Python for Node.js? 21:11:04 > text$unwords[max(s++t)(show n)|s<-cycle["","","Fizz"]|t<-cycle["","","","","Buzz"]|n<-[1..100]] 21:11:06 1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Buzz... 21:12:37 i wonder how small #esoteric can make a fizzbuzz program 21:13:01 I tried to make the small FizzBuzz program with TeX 21:13:18 likely smaller than that 21:13:25 mhm 21:13:54 that use of max is pretty clever, though 21:14:21 oh http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?FizzBuzz seems to be down 21:18:09 Here is the one with TeX in 142 bytes: \newcount\-\let~\advance\day0\loop~\-1~\day1~\mit\ifnum\-=3\-0Fizz\fi\ifnum\fam=5Buzz\rm\fi\ifvmode\the\day\fi\endgraf\ifnum\day<`d\repeat\bye 21:18:22 ew 21:18:25 ^ 21:18:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_that_Buddha_would_not_play 21:20:00 is that using \day as a variable? 21:20:07 ais523: Yes. 21:20:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:20:41 anyway, anagol has a 82 char record for FizzBuzz in Haskell... I have 85, hmm 21:21:29 make a new record: 81 or lower 21:21:37 why not use a shorter variable name? 21:22:12 myname: I think variables need to be declared in TeX but some are predeclared 21:22:20 it may be that \day is the shortest predeclared variable 21:22:20 ah 21:22:31 <\oren\> found the cure 21:22:57 Yes, as well as \fam, which is equally short. 21:23:17 (The \fam variable is used to control fonts in math mode. Since this program does not use math mode, it can use it for general purpose.) 21:23:22 what is \day usually used for? 21:23:34 i,i Day convolution 21:23:51 \day stores the day number of the month. 21:24:06 Day convolution is too good 21:24:16 Normally it is not modified, and TeX does not use it internally other than set it to the correct value when it starts. 21:33:18 -!- deltab_ has joined. 21:33:52 -!- deltab has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:34:25 -!- ineiros_ has changed nick to ineiros. 21:54:35 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:54:50 -!- Kobalt has joined. 21:57:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:11:03 https://youtu.be/fyMQ2203pQM food wishes <3 22:11:18 -!- augur has joined. 22:12:14 -!- gamemanj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:00 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIbKsd1gR8o 22:14:47 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:15:00 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:15:15 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:16:27 i hate german vocals 22:16:37 int-e: Can lambdabot error message in a public channel be restricted to one line or something like that? 22:19:25 > vcat $ map (text.show) [1..] 22:19:28 1 22:19:28 2 22:19:28 3 22:19:42 shachaf, yukibot (which uses the same Haskell evaluator thingy) does so, so it's definitely possible 22:20:04 int-e: In particular I'm thinking of error messages, not output. 22:20:07 lambdabot cannot really distinguish between errors and normal output. 22:20:17 But I don't mind if it's done with output too. 22:20:29 > var "a\nb" 22:20:31 a 22:20:31 b 22:20:53 Some people are especially careless in #haskell, and just type in 5 or 10 erroneous lines. 22:21:18 @check \x -> take 10 x == x 22:21:21 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 19 tests): 22:21:21 [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] 22:21:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:22:20 iirc lambdabot output is limited much shorter in channels than in PMs 22:22:52 it currently limits channel output to 3 lines with 80 characters each. 22:23:04 <\oren\> myname: why? 22:23:24 <\oren\> german is a nice language 22:23:28 \oren\: they just sound ridiculous 22:23:32 yeah, i know 22:23:40 i am a native speaker 22:23:50 and i like it way better than english 22:24:01 int-e: well one line of 240 characters is typically less impactful on a channel 22:24:04 i just can't stand it in vocals 22:24:43 @oeis 1,2,4,8,15 22:24:44 @check \x -> not (x == 1500) 22:24:48 https://oeis.org/A000078 Tetranacci numbers: a(n) = a(n-1) + a(n-2) + a(n-3)... 22:24:48 [0,0,0,1,1,2,4,8,15,29,56,108,208,401,773,1490,2872,5536,10671,20569,39648,7... 22:24:52 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 22:25:21 <\oren\> yeah, i see what you mean. i've had to train myself to stop my brain processing the english words of certian songs 22:25:42 yeah, like that 22:25:58 <\oren\> because japanese people sometimes write ridiculous english 22:26:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:26:39 <\oren\> actually, even many american artists' words are ridiculous 22:26:58 `primes 1000 22:26:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: primes: not found 22:27:11 seriously? I thought it was installed by default 22:27:14 i think german is a horrible choice for music. maybe with the exception of rap, but i don't like that 22:27:44 `seq 1 1000 22:27:44 seq: invalid floating point argument: 1 1000 \ Try `seq --help' for more information. 22:27:49 `` seq 1 1000 22:27:49 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67 \ 68 \ 69 \ 70 \ 71 \ 72 \ 22:28:07 int-e: ^ that's my preferred way to deal with long output; replace newlines with backslashes and allow the line to get fairly long 22:28:13 german seems to work well for EBM, but I'm not native so I won't notice if the lyrics are silly 22:28:25 that said, two lines of output works pretty well for @oeis 22:28:34 @oeis 1,2,3,4,5 22:28:44 <\oren\> olsner: right. that's the issue I had when first listeneing to e.g. Iron Attack songs 22:28:51 Plugin `oeis' failed with: <> 22:29:10 hmm 22:29:18 I thought that one would be really easy… 22:29:21 too many sequences? 22:29:24 @oeis 1,2,3,4,6 22:29:25 could be 22:29:29 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wq5Q3axIJA 22:29:42 Plugin `oeis' failed with: <> 22:29:49 (I don't know; the website says: "Displaying 1-10 of 5466 results found.") 22:29:50 maybe OEIS itself is down 22:29:56 @oeis 1,2,3,11 22:30:04 https://oeis.org/A002981 Numbers n such that n! + 1 is prime. 22:30:04 [0,1,2,3,11,27,37,41,73,77,116,154,320,340,399,427,872,1477,6380,26951,11005... 22:30:07 that should have fewer results 22:30:37 `factor 55441 22:30:38 55441: 55441 22:30:42 <\oren\> "make your fate for yourself and together" -- like seriously what are you people trying to say 22:31:17 -!- shachaf has set topic: The international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 22:32:08 <\oren\> but if you somehow stop understanding english temporarily it's a great song! 22:33:17 <\oren\> maybe if english speakers start writing songs in broken japanese we can take revenge 22:33:39 it's reasonable. the style reminds me of helloween 22:33:47 > last id 22:33:49 error: 22:33:49 • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a]’ with actual type ‘a0 -> a0’ 22:33:49 • Probable cause: ‘id’ is applied to too few arguments 22:34:15 Packing that error into one line wouldn't be so bad. 22:35:57 <\oren\> or, maybe if we translate japanese songs with broken english in them into english with broken japanese 22:36:11 while we are posting songs, https://youtu.be/gGTAmmTiD_Y 22:38:29 <\oren\> nice! 22:46:03 meh I don't want to change this, really. 22:46:46 don't 22:46:48 next 22:51:10 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:11 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:21 -!- diginet has joined. 22:51:21 -!- trn has joined. 22:52:58 `factor 0 22:53:00 0: 22:55:45 `` factor -- -1 22:55:45 factor: `-1' is not a valid positive integer 22:56:34 in any case, bedtime 23:05:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:09:46 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 23:10:01 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 23:10:03 moo 23:11:50 0 doesn't have a factorisation either, it should error on it 23:12:19 The first number with a factorisation is 1 (empty product) 23:14:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:19:18 <\oren\> is 0 a positive integer? 23:19:34 According to a book I have, yes. 23:19:57 <\oren\> is 0 also a negative integer? 23:20:22 Neither, as far as I am concerned 23:21:09 <\oren\> there should be a negative int type in C++ 23:21:30 The book, which is _Finite-Dimensional Vector Spaces_ by Halmos, uses "positive" to mean "greater than or equal to zero", and "strictly positive" to mean "greater than zero". 23:21:49 I think this would be a better usage than the standard one. 23:21:53 But it's probably not worth the fight. 23:22:34 <\oren\> hmm, a negative int would basically interpret 1 as -255, instead of -1 as 255 as with unsigned int 23:22:52 <\oren\> wait that's a negative char 23:22:53 French mathematics considers 0 to be both positive and negative 23:23:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:23:09 While, say England or USA would say 0 is neither 23:25:04 <\oren\> idea! a stupid char allows values [-255,-128]u[128,255]. 23:26:21 <\oren\> yes, lets go with that. numbers near zero are unrepresented 23:27:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:32:38 Let's use balanced ternary 23:34:56 <\oren\> let's use binary coded duodecimal 23:36:04 No, we need an odd base to make it balanced 23:36:16 <\oren\> binary coded balanced base 15 23:36:53 <\oren\> -7 = 9 to +7 23:37:33 <\oren\> although it would probably be easier in software to do balanced base 255 23:38:23 <\oren\> i once had some bignum functions that used regular base 255 so that it could be stored in a C string 23:39:32 <\oren\> basically, if you invert each byte before and after processing, the unused FF digit is stored as 0 23:40:25 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:40:53 <\oren\> thus, it can be used to mark the end of the number 23:41:38 -!- Kobalt has joined. 23:42:32 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:08 -!- Kobalt has joined. 23:47:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:50:54 -!- deltab_ has changed nick to deltab. 23:52:04 -!- Elronnd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:53:35 -!- Elronnd has joined. 2016-09-20: 00:05:29 fizzie: When in Oct did you say you'll be here? 00:06:24 ~>pyc print 1+1 00:06:26 ​2 | 00:18:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:19:15 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can currency be modeled as stock in itself? As in, can ¤5 be thought of as 5 shares in the Generic Currency corporation? ) 00:20:11 Huh, Gold has a currency code (XAU) 00:20:25 Why stock? 00:20:45 It's a financial instrument like any other, but not part ownership of a company. 00:22:02 Fun fact: all elements have a systemic currency code. 00:22:12 Though not used at all, hydrogen is XH 00:22:30 `? fun fact 00:22:31 fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 00:22:41 1 XH is, of course, one troy ounce of hydrogen. 00:25:06 pikhq: I think hydrogen would probably be XXH to keep the length-3 part consistent 00:25:10 Though what about xenon... 00:25:29 Thankfully, there is no element E. 00:25:47 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:25:51 yet 00:25:53 That would make it XXE, which- while unambiguous (no element 'E')- is still going to trip someone up who knows the X 00:26:09 Though arguably one could say that "e" is for an electron, and XXE is from 1 troy ounce of electrons. 00:26:21 (Really, the X should be after the element- gold is XAU, xenon is XEX, etc.) 00:26:46 pikhq: Do troy ounces even apply to gases? 00:26:54 s/XAU/AUX/ 00:27:07 Sure they do. It's used as a unit of mass, and gasses have mass. 00:27:17 pikhq: There, you fixed my messupery of their system 00:27:32 Mind, there aren't many cases where you even have electrons out of an atom, but... 1 troy ounce of electrons seems fun. 00:27:33 pikhq: Yeah, but not a very consistent density (unlike, say, Iron or Water) 00:27:39 *nod* 00:28:16 pikhq: What's the value of 1 troy ounce of salt (ClNa)? 00:29:35 Um, good question. 00:30:18 My best guess is that there's an extension for compounds- most likely, XCM() 00:33:38 (Maybe elements should be E[symbol-caps] rather than X__, so that X can be used for cryptocurrencies and such) 00:34:13 (At the moment, BTC for Bitcoin is considered bad because currency codes are [Nation][Letter], but BT is Bhutan, which Bitcoin is not associated with) 00:35:30 bhutancoin 00:35:45 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 00:35:56 Dammit, wifi 00:36:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:36:10 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 00:36:14 There 00:37:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:38:49 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 00:42:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:42:15 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 00:43:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:48:12 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:56:25 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:57:20 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 01:01:47 Bananas are berries... 01:01:48 Huh... 01:12:46 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Maybe payment should actually be issued in man-hours rather than real hours- if you work at double pace, you get double pay ) 01:14:21 i,i and women would get paid 40% more? 01:15:08 shachaf: ...wat? 01:15:18 (This better not be a wage-gap joke...) 01:15:28 > 1/0.7 01:15:30 1.4285714285714286 01:16:32 shachaf: Under this system, women get paid by productiveness. If a woman produces twice as much output as a man doing equal work, she gets paid twice as much 01:19:10 (Now, in a mythical man-hour scenario this is bad when management decides to approximate; "oh, we added another person to the staff (from a staff of 1) but productivity is only 1.5* greater? Everyone receives a 25% pay dock, then.") 01:24:13 I've tried to explain to my mother before- who got acupuncture- that acupuncture is pseudoscience 01:24:34 Now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture is telling me that it /usually/ is, EXCEPT it might be effective for chemotherapy 01:24:38 Which is why she got it 01:24:40 DAMMIT, MOM! 01:25:38 -!- boily has joined. 01:26:10 Productivity is hard to quantify anyway, depending on what your job is 01:27:32 [wiki] [[Emmental]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49740&oldid=49739 * Kimiyuki * (+0) /* Using the discrete log */ 01:29:49 Do Chinese people with Synæsthesia have to develop mantis shrimp-like megavision? 01:35:32 (I wonder if anybody thinks I have synæsthesia from hearing me talk about hex color codes...) 01:38:23 (I guess hex codes are basically just symmetrical grapheme-color synæsthesia (color-grapheme-color-grapheme synæsthesia?)) 01:40:13 -!- Kaynato has joined. 01:41:26 -!- Froox has joined. 01:44:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:51:37 (Synæsthesia which does digits is stupid anyway; if you don't see every number as a distinct color unrelated to its digits, your brain is doing it wrong) 01:55:05 Dammit 01:55:21 Today's xkcd means I either need to support the Fashion Police or turn in my Grammar Police badge. 01:55:21 hppavellon[1]. 01:55:33 (Fashion Police Brutality?) 02:15:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ERRONEOUS CHICKEN). 02:42:29 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:51:25 I'm attempting to make an über-concise language for talking to computers (in the sense of conversing with a strong AI, rather than a programming language) 02:52:37 (It could also, presumably, work well for communicating over a language barrier because it's pretty simple (for now) and should be equally easy for people in all languages to figure out- the only difficulty is if you don't recognize the punctuation (e.g. you don't know ? usually ends a question) 02:52:40 ) 02:54:21 Trying to decide whether the standard initial greeting (the "are you there") should be ENQ or PING (ACK could maybe also be used) 03:26:18 What is best algorithm for converting a code with goto commands so that it doesn't use goto? 03:30:25 Why do you want to do that? 03:31:15 Mainly in order to compile the code into programming languages that don't have goto. 03:36:46 That depends on what those languages do have. 03:39:38 Most will have if and while, at least, as well as continue and break. JavaScript has a few more than just that, but it would be good to have something that can be use even if the target is not JavaScript but does have if/while/break at least. 03:53:19 My "OAA" compiler for the OASYS text adventure system as it turns out is using "twigils" a bit similar to Perl 6, although I invented it independently. This means that variables never need to be declared. By the prefix and suffix, you can tell if it is a global, local, property, class, method, etc; and the data type (or returned data type for a method) such as integer, string, object, pointer, or void. 03:56:46 It is different than Perl or BASIC though. In BASIC it uses suffixes for data type, and no prefix. Also, the letters forming the name are still required. In OAA the letters forming the name are not required, but the prefix & ! , . % * is required. Do you like this? 04:02:16 Is there a kind of indexing system for JSON data so that you can access JSON data from a program without having to store the entire data in RAM all at once? 04:08:26 <\oren\> Ok! now I've made some progress toward hangul! 04:10:07 <\oren\> zzo38: not that I know of, but you could make one 04:11:11 <\oren\> I think you'd have to regenerate the index after all changes 04:13:15 Yes, also I mean not only local index but also use of remote index. 04:17:40 <\oren\> Hmm, well maybe it's possible to dynamically generate a relational database from a json file? 04:17:56 <\oren\> by autodetecting schemata? 04:21:31 You can make a SQL database from JSON data, but that isn't quite what I was asking here. 04:38:14 "Oppression is what happens when personal preference becomes legal fact." -- me, just now 04:38:52 O, OK. 04:39:29 You may be right. 04:40:49 I know a guy name Jazon. I assume he stores attribute-value-style data in JZON. 04:42:42 (In germany, OTOH, they use JẞON 04:46:47 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:46:58 -!- clog has joined. 04:49:33 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:49:52 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 04:52:26 Italic type is OK, but I really want my typefaces to support Cilati type too... 04:53:45 -!- Kobalt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:03:11 I'm slowly building an information-dense, impenetrable language for communication 05:03:13 ?['cat'].ü ↠ ?[id];; 05:03:13 Unknown command, try @list 05:03:19 Whoops 05:03:22 Sorry, lambdy 05:17:32 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Apples.jpg has been used with the note that the objects aren't ravens and ALSO aren't black 05:27:45 <\oren\> holy crap http://archive.is/FXcao <-- Paul Combetta was outright TOLD by the people he asked about redacting emails, that this would be a discorvery nightmare 05:28:18 <\oren\> worse than discovery, is congressional oversight 05:28:54 who is paul combetta and what did he do? 05:29:03 <\oren\> Elronnd: deleted hillary's emails 05:29:03 I have a tendency to be out of the loop on a lot of things 05:29:15 I see 05:29:30 <\oren\> he asked on reddit how to remove someone's address from an email archive 05:29:45 tbh I don't understand all the hillary hate 05:30:01 if I worked for the government, I wouldn't want them knowing what I emailed who 05:30:31 <\oren\> Elronnd: well, the government is supposed to be responsible for their actions 05:30:36 I mean, obviously if I email bob from the NSA, bob knows I emailed him; but if I email joe, I don't want bob to know about *that* 05:31:19 <\oren\> and there are laws in the US that say essentially that their legistlature has the right to know everything that the government does 05:31:45 <\oren\> so hillary is not supposed to hide these emails 05:32:23 and that's why I don't want to work for the us government 05:32:57 <\oren\> me neither. but if you work in any company it is important to keep emails archived in case of discovery 05:33:36 <\oren\> it's also why you should always have a separate work email and personal email 05:33:44 <\oren\> (which hillary did not have) 05:33:44 Yes you should have. 05:35:35 If you want to write personal email messages you should have a separate account which the government and so on does not see. If you need government email then you should be according to the law of government and ensure that anyone can sue them over it if it is wrong. 05:35:48 I suppose 05:36:22 at one point I made the realisation that a computer was a real virtual machine 05:36:30 then I realized how stupid that realization was 05:37:26 <\oren\> Elronnd: in case you're unfamiliar, "discovery" is a process where two companies suing each other get to request documents from each other to uncover evidence of wrongdoing 05:37:48 O, so it is like what I mentioned. 05:39:21 <\oren\> if you delete work emails, you can be fined or worse 05:39:49 <\oren\> so always make sure not to mmkay? 05:40:23 deletin's bad, mkuuuy? 05:41:04 Do you think this API would be good? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/simple_js_addons 05:46:09 I'm bored 05:46:24 someone give me a wikipedia article to start perusing and go down a rabbit hole of links 05:47:33 Elronnd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random 05:47:48 OMG, they asked how to delete the emails on StackExchange!? 05:48:39 Oh, it's reddit 05:48:42 But still 05:48:42 !? 05:54:49 Men o' War should be classified as "Distributed Organisms" 05:58:49 <\oren\> I got "Distillation" 06:03:13 <\oren\> some editing tasks are more suited to ed, others to nano 06:03:35 \oren\: What's the *n?x equivalent of microsoft word? 06:03:58 (as in, sed:NotePad::?:Word) 06:05:27 <\oren\> uh, i suppose LibreOffice? 06:05:36 zzo38: But I heard the government can see all your email. 06:06:21 <\oren\> shachaf: nah, based on the problems they've had with hillarys' I think the nsa's spying is not actually as extensive as they claim 06:06:43 Why do people say "Hillary" instead of "Clinton"? 06:06:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:06:57 <\oren\> shachaf: to avoid confusing her with bill clinton 06:07:12 What about the president after Bill Clinton? 06:07:34 <\oren\> also her campaign generally refers to her as hillary or just "Her" 06:08:04 And 'Hillary' is a fun name 06:08:06 <\oren\> the president after bill clinton was Bubya 06:08:10 <\oren\> Dubya 06:08:27 <\oren\> George Dubya bush 06:08:37 (If "Hillary" can be abbreviated to "Hill" and "Rob" can become "Bob", can we make "Hillary" abbreviable to "Bill"?) 06:08:45 <\oren\> as opposed to papa bush 06:08:47 Dubya 06:08:53 \oren\: Bush I 06:09:44 <\oren\> the movie about dubya was just called "W" 06:10:03 @google president bush 06:10:05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush 06:10:16 <\oren\> gearge aitch dubya bush was his father 06:13:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:19:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:19:15 \oren\: No, H. W. ("eych dubya") 06:19:17 -!- Akaibu has joined. 06:25:13 George -> Gearge -> Jarj - Jar Jar Bush 06:31:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:38:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:44:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:45:10 If the president dies, the vice president ascends 06:45:22 If both die, the Speaker of the House ascends 06:46:07 If he dies too, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate ascends 06:46:50 Followed by the cabinet (of which one member is kept at a secure undisclosed location whenever the rest are in the same place at the same time- the "Designated Survivor") 06:49:24 I'm afraid it's nowhere near as interesting as the line of succession for the Queen, which these days likely includes most of the population of Europe. 06:51:24 pikhq: What about all the catholics? 06:51:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:51:52 Now, if the Designated Survivor has a heart attack, but the House is still around, they can elect a speaker who then becomes president 06:51:58 Ah, right. Includes *substantial portions* of the population of Europe. 06:52:10 pikhq: Also all the bastards 06:52:18 If they're gone too, the Senate chooses a President pro Tempore 06:52:33 While it's certainly not the case that all of Europe is Catholic, there's certainly a lot of Catholics there. 06:52:49 (And I think the rule is that you're cut off completely- if the crown can only get to you through a catholic, you're screwed. Or maybe that's just for bastardry) 06:52:56 As you might expect for a set of places that includes a Catholic theocracy. 06:53:03 hppavilion[1]: Just for bastardry. 06:53:08 pikhq: Ah 06:53:17 Now, if there IS no senate, the governors can appoint senators 06:53:31 Being Catholic apparently doesn't cut you off from giving rise to heirs, just prevents you from yourself being an heir. 06:53:39 Ah 06:54:01 So to properly break the country, you'd have to kill the president, vice president, every representative, every senator, AND every governor at the same time 06:54:15 And presumably you'd have to break the governor's line of succession in EVERY state. 06:55:29 Specifically, the law states, and I shit you not, anyone who is Catholic in the line of succession is "naturally dead". 06:55:39 Yep 06:55:40 (for purposes of succession) 06:55:42 "naturally dead" 06:56:51 So the lieutenant governor, and- just to be sure because rules vary- the President of the Senate, the entire Cabinet, Speaker of the House, and anybody who can make new ones (so the entire state Senate and state House) 06:56:57 They all have to die too 06:57:15 And once you've killed these 10,000+ people at the same time, we're FINALLY screwed 06:57:23 But we probably have much bigger problems LONG before this 06:58:33 However, there is a workaround for this. I'm pretty sure we could still hold a Constitutional Convention to make an amendment to add someone else to the succession. 07:00:34 pikhq: And who will convene? 07:00:56 "The States". 07:02:02 One still needs 2/3rds of the states to have functioning legislatures though. 07:02:37 Hrm. Wait. 07:02:46 2/3rds of the states may ask Congress for a convention. 07:02:50 Congress... still has to exist. 07:03:22 That'd be a bit of a mess. 07:04:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:05:51 -!- augur has joined. 07:06:31 pikhq: So what would happen? 07:06:35 Only one way to find out! 07:12:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:13:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:13:41 https://imgur.com/r/baduk is there a name for this kind of thing? 07:13:50 that kind of collection of pictures 07:13:52 on imgur 07:13:55 linked to a subreddit 07:14:20 i need the name to find it in the imgur api 07:21:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:24:52 * oerjan spots a rare boily in the logs 07:38:23 <\oren\> pikhq: that's why they need to catch and destroy the fifth column before they can grow to a strength capable of such an attack 07:41:38 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaikbWebnkk 07:51:46 -!- augur has joined. 07:52:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:05:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 08:08:20 hppavilion[1]: about the line of succession for the president, there's actually a pretty good reason for why that's needed now, since 2010-04 when Lech Kaczyński and a large part of the government of Poland died at the same time from a crashed airplane. 08:10:35 It gets even easier if someone wants to deliberately kill members of the government. Mind you, in the 21st century it might get more difficult if members of government eventually get to the habit of just staying at home and teleconferencing with each other (each wearing the top half of an elegant suit because the camera doesn't show their legs) in 08:10:35 stead of traveling to meet in person. 08:18:55 -!- carado has joined. 08:32:31 -!- Caesura has joined. 08:34:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:53:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:35 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:57:04 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:18:38 The letter e key on this keyboard is repeatedly getting stuck again, so I'm glad I already ordered a new keyboard. I hope it will arrive soon. 09:20:39 It has an unusual layout by the way: on the left half it's like a standard 104 key layout so there's no extra key between the letter z and the left shift, but on the right it's like a 105 key layout so the enter key is upside down L-shaped and the backslash key is between the apostrophe and the bottom part of the enter key. 09:48:37 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:49:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:11:15 -!- boily has joined. 10:11:44 long time noily see 10:17:26 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 10:19:13 hellørjan! 10:19:18 I exist! 10:19:30 occasionally! 10:20:13 * boily pokes himself. pretty sure I'm quite solid and substantial. 10:21:36 * oerjan aims a neutrino beam at boily. nope, no substance detected... 10:22:18 I just happened to be on vacation. perhaps the kimchi unsubstantiated me? 10:22:34 sounds logical. 10:22:54 i shall continue to avoid korean food, then. 10:24:39 then i assume it was a seoulful experience. 10:31:16 I'm already missing the food over there. it was delicious... 10:31:30 * boily thwacks oerjan. 0.9 shachafs. 10:32:01 need to get you back in mapole shape, you know. 10:32:54 I'm not yet quite synchronized with my current timezone. 10:33:25 i almost am! for once. 10:33:43 well, in a couple days, maybe. 10:37:29 @tell gamemanj I do not recommend posting these estimates into IRC. <-- approx. 5 seconds after she actually started singing hth 10:37:29 Consider it noted. 10:37:46 we had a singer in this chännel? 10:37:56 no, on youtube, linked by \oren\ 10:39:22 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 10:57:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:58:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:12:14 o sole mio 11:12:29 wat 11:13:03 do re mi fa sol la ti do! 11:13:31 int-ello, izellove. 11:13:42 int-e: s/ti/si/ 11:13:46 do ré mi fa sol la si do. 11:13:50 helloily 11:14:07 izalove: there are several versions of this 11:14:18 sure but they're wrong 11:18:18 Wow, someone sanitized the topic. Now where do I put my "The opinionated channel."? I'll just let it float here, I guess. 11:19:06 -!- izalove has set topic: free space for advertising. 11:21:15 -!- boily has set topic: The Global Hub for Esoteric Programming Language Design and Sanity | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 11:21:27 -!- izalove has set topic: boring topics are boring. 11:24:23 wooo I'm scared!!!1 "Failure to complete your site submission may result in the cancellation of this offer, making it difficult for your customers to locate you on the web." [this is a spam mail directed at domain registrant, some SEO thing maybe but it's using a surprising level of fear instead of new and shiny for selling its services... sample: http://www.uia.org/content/1346 ) 11:24:40 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Global Hub for Esoteric Programming Language Design and Sanity | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 11:24:47 -!- izalove has set topic: hi i'm oerjan knoxville welcome to jackass. 11:24:57 (and of course it's quite possible that they offer no service at all) 11:25:36 izalove: don't remove the links. especially not the log links, they're mandated by freenode. 11:25:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 11:26:26 oh, topic golfing 11:26:43 -!- izalove has set topic: fuck the sisters ehrm i mean the system. 11:27:40 -!- int-e has set topic: http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 11:28:32 -!- izalove has set topic: links available at http://goatse.info/. 11:28:35 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 11:28:38 aww 11:28:43 what do you mean that the logs are mandated by freenode? I'm on other channels without log links 11:28:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +t. 11:28:48 killjoy 11:29:06 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Global Hub for Esoteric Programming Language Design and Sanity | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 11:29:10 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 11:29:15 you're no fun at all 11:29:15 izalove: no, you killed that particular fun right there 11:29:44 goatse'ing people is pretty much universally evil and bad 11:29:55 we try to stay away from evil stuff here 11:29:57 I thought that site was dead 11:30:07 idk, I'm not clicking it 11:30:36 Hoolootwo: if the channel is publicly logged, it must be noted in the channel topic. 11:30:39 i don't think anyone in this channel was tech savvy enough to know that link 11:30:46 err 11:30:53 i thought anyone in this channel was tech savvy enough to know that link 11:31:00 ah okay, that makes sense 11:31:48 izalove, you'd hope, but that is really not at all the topic of discussion here ever and doesn't belong in a topic 11:31:57 but idk, I'm not an op 11:32:31 fwiw i hadn't even noticed the goatse link when i decided i'd put +t if izalove did it _one_ more time hth 11:32:48 no warning? 11:32:50 I don't think oerjan minded the link all that much... the problem was removing the other (useful, partially mandated) links even after it was explicitely stated that they should remain in the topic. 11:32:55 oerjan: what kind of mod are you? 11:32:56 izalove: you had plenty of warning. 11:33:01 no i don't think so 11:33:09 literally nobody told me to stop 11:33:14 izalove: i believe reverting your action counts as a warning. 11:33:38 anyway... 11:33:58 oerjan: would it kill you to tell people "stop doing this or i'll +t"? 11:34:04 izalove: i told you not to remove the links. 11:34:42 izalove: sorry, i was too busy resisting the temptation to just kick hth 11:38:22 but seriously, when you're obviously willfully irritating people getting warned is a privilege, not a right. 11:38:34 now shave -> 11:40:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMPERIAL CHICKEN). 12:15:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:21:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:40:56 -!- Kobalt has joined. 13:41:23 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:41:27 doot 13:44:01 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:17 -!- Kobalt has joined. 13:45:45 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:46:00 -!- Kobalt has joined. 13:47:08 damn channel is dead 13:47:14 *hides the bodys* 14:10:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:18:22 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:18:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:18:40 -!- Kobalt has joined. 14:18:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:21:47 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:00 -!- Kobalt has joined. 14:22:54 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:23:09 -!- Kobalt has joined. 14:42:49 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:50:10 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:57:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:08:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:17:07 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49741 * Challenger5 * (+3068) Created page with "'''Minipig''', or MP, is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Challenger5]]. It is a minimalistic stack-based language that was pretty much designed in under..." 15:18:21 -!- uberBear has joined. 15:55:43 `unidecode ⍝ 15:55:53 ​[U+235D APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL UP SHOE JOT] 16:10:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:10:59 -!- augur has joined. 16:20:16 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:37:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:52:46 -!- uberBear has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:56:13 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Tdjc8An5w 17:17:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:26:44 shachaf: I think it was a week around the 20th or so, can't quite recall. 17:27:05 I'm in Italy for an offsite now. 17:28:13 There's someone new to the team starting today, must be a nice way to welcome them with everyone else in Italy having fun. 17:30:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:31:18 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:38:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:47:14 fizzie: where you at? 17:47:43 It's been a long time since I've been in Italy... coming up to a month and a half 17:50:17 I think I haven't been to Italy for almost two decades. 17:50:35 shachaf, you should fix that 17:50:46 Maybe you should go to Italy the next time I'm in California! 17:50:57 Why? 17:51:12 Because Italy is lovely 17:51:18 I think I need to be here to give you bad Magic: The Gathering cards. 17:51:36 izalove: Somewhere around Lake Garda. 17:52:02 nice 17:52:04 Near-ish Verona. 17:52:05 go to gardaland 17:52:20 -!- _46bit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:26 I saw Gardaland, it was one of the activities for today. 17:52:50 ??? why did you leave? 17:53:30 not staying the whole day at gardaland? what kind of sick perversion is this? 17:53:32 I went on a boat trip to Isola del Garda instead. 17:53:37 whaaaaat 17:53:41 you're crazy 17:53:46 I mean, I saw it from a bus, driving by. 17:53:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:55:09 so sorry for you 17:56:00 -!- _46bit has joined. 17:56:00 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 17:56:00 -!- _46bit has joined. 17:56:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:58:01 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49742&oldid=49741 * Challenger5 * (+321) 17:58:14 -!- _46bit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:28 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:58:45 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49743&oldid=49742 * Challenger5 * (+0) Fixed the category link ~~~~ 17:59:26 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:59:44 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49744&oldid=49743 * Challenger5 * (+0) Fixed the category link ~~~~ 18:01:37 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:01:37 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 18:01:37 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:09:48 -!- _46bit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:11:23 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:11:23 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 18:11:23 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:24:38 i have a list with n words. what's the complexity of finding all the words with damerau levenshtein distance at most k from a certain word? 18:26:39 I *want* to say O(n), or O(n*m) where m is the average word length, but I'm not sure 18:27:11 O(n) means you can compute the distance in O(1) 18:28:41 If all the words are the same length, it'd be O(m) with constant m 18:28:51 Or O(f(m)) 18:29:08 Effectively constant, nonetheless, assuming it's only the number of words you're varying 18:30:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:31:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:31:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:32:32 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:33:45 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:37:07 izalove: pretty slow if k>1, even with lots of memory and fast memoization 18:37:30 O(lots) ok 18:39:22 It has been shown that the Levenshtein distance of two strings of length n cannot be computed in time O(n2 - ε) unless the strong exponential time hypothesis is false. 18:39:37 n^2 should be 18:40:18 which says its like O(n*m^2) 18:41:39 there are some optimizations of course, where you stop trying to find the distance as soon as it exceeds k 18:42:08 but that doesnt affect the worst case 18:47:08 but lets just say ive actually tried to do this on a very long list and it took days. 18:48:11 :) 19:05:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:12:37 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:13:01 int-e: I am also getting some very sophisticated spam these days. some spammers are really upping their game. 19:13:05 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:16:30 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 19:17:01 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to khoR_. 19:17:05 -!- khoR_ has changed nick to Elronnd. 19:18:45 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:20:04 if i have two 20 characters strings 19:20:11 and their distance is at most 5 19:20:25 how many characters are in the correct order? 19:22:14 ignore that, it doesn't make things simpler 19:26:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:28:45 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:41:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:46:57 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:48:48 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49745&oldid=49744 * Challenger5 * (+13) Changed 19:49:09 [wiki] [[MiniPig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49746&oldid=49745 * Challenger5 * (+0) 19:49:38 [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49747&oldid=49654 * Challenger5 * (+16) Added by language 19:52:14 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:52:44 -!- Froo has joined. 19:56:18 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:02:28 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49748&oldid=49683 * Challenger5 * (+14) 20:04:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:08:52 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:10:12 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:19:42 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:34:07 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:34:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:47:51 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:49:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:01:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:31:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:43:35 -!- augur has joined. 21:46:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:07:22 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:12:17 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:12:55 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:13:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:17:07 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:30:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:47:15 -!- adu has joined. 23:00:35 <\oren\> ARGH 23:00:56 <\oren\> shifting left by a negative number doesn't shift right! WHYYYYYY 23:04:07 -!- boily has joined. 23:06:06 <\oren\> `cc int main(){printf("%d",0xfff<<-1);} 23:06:09 2047 23:06:40 <\oren\> hold on wat? 23:06:49 <\oren\> it works in gcc? 23:07:27 <\oren\> in tcc that writes 0 23:07:35 pretty sure it's undefined behavior 23:07:39 enjoy your nasal demons 23:07:41 he\\oren\, hellolsner. 23:07:50 `RELCOME BOILY 23:07:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: RELCOME: not found 23:07:53 <\oren\> `cc int main(){printf("%d",0xfff>>-1);} 23:07:54 8190 23:08:06 HELLOCHAF!!! 23:08:22 `welcome boily 23:08:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found 23:08:29 I thought that one was defined. 23:08:36 `` ls bin/** 23:08:38 bin/echo \ bin/welcome 23:08:45 `welcome boily 23:08:46 ​boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:09:02 `welcome boily 23:09:03 ​boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:09:18 <\oren\> `wat 23:09:19 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wat: not found 23:09:21 <\oren\> `? wat 23:09:23 ​ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው። 23:09:42 <\oren\> is that ethiopian or something 23:10:13 it's messing up my terminal, that's for sure 23:10:18 <\oren\> yeah, amharic 23:10:43 that one's mine ^^ 23:12:37 It isn't messing up my terminal 23:12:45 Just looks mysterious 23:13:20 What does it say? 23:13:31 it's the first sentence of the Amharic version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_(food) 23:14:26 Ah xD 23:14:37 `? wut 23:14:38 wut? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:14:42 `? what 23:14:43 what? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:15:33 <\oren\> I am sooo close to figuring out what's wrong with my hangul code 23:16:13 <_46bit> Hangul sounds a marvellous name for a programming language. 23:18:18 I was in Korea. completely surrounded by hangul everywhere. it tends to grow on you after a few days... 23:18:34 <\oren\> I at least did finish the hangul jamo variants that will be used to piece together each hangul. 23:19:00 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/hangulparts.htm 23:19:02 boily: You got a hangul tattoo? 23:19:06 s/Y/y/ 23:20:18 <\oren\> or did i? 23:20:20 not yet. if I get one, it probably will be the original hangul as devised by King Sejong's court. 23:20:56 <\oren\> we have two variants of each vowel, one which doesn't leave room for a final, one which does. 23:22:47 <\oren\> we have several variants of each initial consonant 23:23:37 <\oren\> but I think there are at least two variants that need to be made, for use with horizontal vowels 23:24:51 <\oren\> we already have the variants for vertical, and backwards L shaped consonants 23:25:01 <\oren\> er, vowels 23:27:52 -!- alakra has joined. 23:28:54 `relcome alakra 23:28:56 ​alakra: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:32:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: IceChat - It's what Cool People use). 23:33:10 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:43:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:46:12 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:48:49 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 23:48:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:49:17 -!- Froox has joined. 23:51:42 hi hppavilion[1] 23:52:46 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:55:33 Wow 23:56:59 According to FiveThirtyEight, 3% of US adults (a larger percentage of gun owners exclusively) account for 133M out of 265M guns (265 megaguns) 23:57:20 By my math, each one owns slightly more than 18 on average (their numbers say 17 for some reason) 23:57:29 (They probably used less simplified statistics) 23:57:43 helloonythedwarf_ 2016-09-21: 00:05:44 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:06:12 You have to take into consideration that a lot of gun owners are likely to own multiple guns 00:09:29 hppavilion[1]: From my knowledge of gun owners, that seems about right TBH. 00:09:39 Decent number of people are gun collectors. 00:10:07 * pikhq has a friend with ~50 interesting firearms. ... And no ammunition. 00:10:47 pikhq: I want to be an ammunition collector; lots of bullets, no way to use them 00:26:15 -!- Froo has joined. 00:27:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SMITH CHICKEN). 00:28:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:29:03 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:31:26 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:32:43 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:52 -!- Froox has joined. 00:35:28 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host). 00:35:28 -!- sparr has joined. 00:35:52 oh boily has returned! 00:37:14 -!- Froo has joined. 00:37:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:40:37 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:40:40 `tell boily coily! webek! 00:40:41 I think you mean "@tell boily coily! webek!" instead? 00:40:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:40:47 @tell boily coily! webek! 00:40:47 Consider it noted. 00:40:57 thanks HackEgo 00:41:03 thackego 00:42:33 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:59:40 -!- Kobalt has joined. 01:36:55 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:44:14 -!- Froox has joined. 01:47:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:50:42 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:56:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:58:52 -!- augur has joined. 02:00:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:08:25 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:34 -!- mewmewmalazerbea has joined. 02:08:49 -!- mewmewmalazerbea has left ("Leaving"). 02:09:24 -!- MDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:10:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:14:07 -!- MDude has joined. 03:00:35 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:03:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:06:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:21:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:22:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:32:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:41:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:54:57 http://www.saveie6.com/ 03:57:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:30:29 (Should I beat wine–whine out of myself?) 05:03:31 Best I can do is write things to render tolerably in IE6. 05:03:52 hikhq 05:03:55 The trick is to use a conditional comment and hide CSS from IE6 entirely. 05:04:39 (and acknowledge that the "no CSS whatsoever" experience is the best thing to do without going crazy) 05:05:03 Flex is TG 05:05:04 better is to officially not support IE6 05:05:16 although 05:05:23 I only support CSS 8 05:05:24 http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ 05:05:38 Or whatever the current version is 05:06:00 alercah: Though I generally agree, I still prefer having light CSS. 05:06:54 that's fine 05:07:14 That said... Write it basically like that, give it a tiny CSS file (like, 1k or less TBH), prevent IE6 from seeing CSS at all, and voila. You basically support everything. 05:07:37 And the only reason to prevent IE6 from seeing CSS at all is because IE6 CSS is spectacularly broken. 05:09:50 pikhq: just add "better" to the beginning of the domain name hth 05:10:27 Bingo. 05:42:23 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:54:17 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:18:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:24:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:27:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 06:30:51 "If you transfer a Pokémon to Pokémon Bank and then on to Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon from Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, Pokémon X, or Pokémon Y, you’ll be unable to transfer it back to Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, Pokémon X, or Pokémon Y." 06:30:56 But why? 06:32:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:34:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:37:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:50:27 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53ri0m/warning_microsoft_signature_pc_program_now/ 07:14:24 -!- augur has joined. 07:42:28 Booo 08:00:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:02:18 -!- carado has joined. 08:10:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:21:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:26:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:30:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:30:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:02:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:06:52 -!- augur has joined. 09:14:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:33:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 09:33:15 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -t. 09:33:18 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 09:48:29 . o O ( `learn_append shachaf He has a terminal disease. ) 10:00:36 goed morjnang 10:01:02 goid afternoont-e 10:01:07 oh wait 10:01:11 it's still morning 10:01:49 goid mornint-e 10:02:39 . o O ( Dsching! Dsching! Dschinghis Khan! ) 10:04:01 Helleveryone 10:04:22 'morneb 10:10:38 -!- boily has joined. 10:10:59 mborningly 10:16:22 børjan matin! 10:16:27 @massages-loud 10:16:27 quintopia said 9h 35m 40s ago: coily! webek! 10:16:53 @tell quintopia QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! I am even more unsynchronized as usual! 10:16:53 Consider it noted. 10:22:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:43:17 `wisdom 10:43:27 applicative functor//Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 10:45:18 wait. aren't those supposed to be monads? 10:57:25 `? monads 10:57:26 Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. 10:57:28 `? monad 10:57:29 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 10:57:48 boily: *DUN DUN DUN* 10:58:55 (they're actually both true hth) 11:15:06 Can someone explain the "monads" one? 11:22:38 `cuplrits wisdom/monads 11:22:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cuplrits: not found 11:22:45 `` culprits wisdom/monads 11:22:47 shachaf elliott oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan shachaf Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover ais523 ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 11:23:03 Tanelle. I believe oerjan can hth 11:35:39 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Total Vacuum * New user account 11:37:31 That sounds like it could be an actual person 11:41:27 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49749&oldid=49738 * Total Vacuum * (+131) 11:42:37 [wiki] [[User:Total Vacuum]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49750 * Total Vacuum * (+21) Created page with "Under construction..." 11:45:23 it is an actual person! 11:45:34 :D 11:46:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REPRODUCTIBLE CHICKEN). 11:51:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:02:48 Taneb: boily believes wrong. try shachaf instead hth 12:03:08 `howg monads 12:03:09 ​ revert 5134 \ find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -El \'(is|are) just\' | xargs rm \ revert \ revert 1 \ revert \ rm wisdom/monads \ echo \'Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.\' > wisdom/monads \ revert \ echo \' Much like Mo 12:05:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:33:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:00:36 for the record, i can define hauling destiations in my dflike and i can even limit what to put there 13:34:56 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 13:35:04 \oren\: you're finally working on hangul support? great! 14:01:51 `ftoc 76 14:01:52 76.00°F = 24.44°C 14:07:27 `ctof 24.44 14:07:28 24.44°C = 75.99°F 14:07:32 disappointed 14:08:53 `ctof 24.44°C 14:08:54 24.44°C = 75.99°F 14:08:59 `ctof 24.44°F 14:09:00 24.44°C = 75.99°F 14:20:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:25:44 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:36:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:38:45 -!- digin4 has joined. 14:39:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 14:40:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:20:11 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 15:20:31 anyone alive in here? 15:21:19 meow 15:21:21 I feel like a zombie :/ 15:21:34 well it's monday... no wait 15:21:38 it's Wednesday actually 15:21:41 lol 15:22:07 lol 15:22:15 is digin4 new? never seen him aroung 15:22:17 *around 15:22:28 yes I'm new here 15:22:34 `relcome digin4 15:22:37 thanks <3 15:22:40 ​digin4: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 15:23:05 o:) 15:23:13 -!- Kobalt has joined. 15:23:14 why is kobalt off? -.- 15:23:23 derp *boots kobalt into life* 15:23:37 ~>pyc print "This vetter work, its alive i hope" 15:23:38 ​This vetter work, its alive i hope | 15:23:41 good 15:24:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:24:59 digin4: have you made any esolangs as of now? just curious 15:25:15 no just joined to learn 15:25:20 ah 15:26:03 well make sure to look over the wiki ^_^ 15:26:12 checking it atm :D 15:28:17 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:31:08 im thinking of the plausibility of writing a irc bot in befunge (With another program acting as the interface, obviously) 15:32:27 where'd fungot go? 15:32:39 it's written in befunge-98 without the need of another program to act as the interface 15:32:52 befunge-98 probably has the best library support of any esolang 15:32:57 and that includes things like network connections 15:33:37 heh 15:33:39 oh it supports that? 15:33:42 didnt know. 15:34:16 fizzie: fungot is down 15:34:29 (not that we necessarily need it up, but I didn't know whether you knew or not) 15:35:24 going to do it anyways, just for fun 15:36:08 external program for irc interface because i dont want to write a entire IRC interface in befunge (aka, a pain) 15:37:26 the IRC protocol is really simpel 15:37:28 *simple 15:37:34 true, but im lazy :P 15:37:45 plus i need to learn befunge first 15:38:17 either that or choose a diffrent esolang 15:38:22 and learn that one 15:39:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:01:21 Taneb: ? 16:13:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:13:49 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:15:05 <\oren\> Ok, so the first step is working: it reads in BDF characters and converts them to fixed size bitmap images in an ad-hoc format 16:15:07 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:16:05 <\oren\> The next step is for it to grab the correct bitmap images and overlay them for each hangul character 16:16:38 <\oren\> and then those characters must be converted back into BDF format to be inserted into the font 16:17:18 <\oren\> unless I can figure out the whole TTF compound character thing in fontforge, which I doubt 16:17:28 <\oren\> this will be the method I'll be using 16:18:04 <\oren\> this method will result in a very large font file, but space is cheap these days so i think it will be fine 16:19:31 \oren\: they're only 16x16 images 16:20:18 <\oren\> 16x18 actually, but yeah small 16:20:42 <\oren\> and in the ttf they will be converted to an outline 16:21:07 <\oren\> the size is linear in the number of corners 16:21:25 how do you edit your glyphs, out of curiosity? 16:21:49 <\oren\> I use fontforge, plus some custom programs 16:22:05 \oren\: so you haven't figured out yet how to make a bitmap ttf? 16:22:14 <\oren\> correct 16:22:30 also, apparently some people want to make a new (more modern) font editor system instead of fontforge 16:22:42 <\oren\> I would like that 16:22:52 I edited my bitmap fonts in generic pixel art tools, with a little script (eventually) to convert it to BDF 16:23:17 <\oren\> I would have to use fontforge to convert it to ttf still though 16:24:02 Probably, yes, unless there's other tools to convert BDF to TTF 16:24:52 <\oren\> I eventually will figure out how to write my own 16:25:30 <\oren\> the requirements for mine are strange since the conversion is done in a way that preserves the pixelation 16:25:51 <\oren\> as opposed to most fonts which want smooth edges 16:26:17 <\oren\> I have some black magic way of making fontforge do that 16:27:03 Yesterday I went to a talk about METAFONT. 16:29:21 <\oren\> shachaf: METAFONT is h.p.lovecraft level black magic 16:41:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:49:40 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:51:46 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 16:54:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:58:20 -!- kline has changed nick to {. 16:58:50 -!- { has changed nick to Guest27631. 16:59:17 -!- Guest27631 has changed nick to kline. 17:05:38 `olist 1053 17:05:48 olist 1053: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 17:12:09 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:40:13 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:41:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:42:01 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:44:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:45:40 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:03:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:03:46 shachaf: I lied, it's the week before. 18:04:11 Which week? 18:04:33 Did you actually lie? 18:08:10 fungone! 18:17:28 we're outta fun 18:17:33 `rot13 fungot 18:17:34 shatbg 18:17:41 ooh list 18:17:57 yes indeed 18:18:22 Yeah, I heard ais523. I'll re-fungot once I get home, currently in a train from Gatwick. 18:18:53 shachaf: I answered your question the other day, when you weren't looking. 18:26:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:31:49 -!- Caesura has joined. 18:33:24 fizzie: I remember that you answered the question but I don't remember the answer. 18:34:02 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:45:05 ¬(['muffin man'.i); ?(['muffin man'].ü) ↠ ?[id];; # translates to "I do not know the muffin man. Do you know the muffin man? If so, please tell me about the muffin man." 18:47:06 how is muffin man object of id? 18:47:59 hppavilion[1]: my mental alarm for a likely race condition just went off 18:48:22 good software development practices would imply replacing this with "I do not know the muffin man. Please tell me all you know about the muffin man." 18:48:29 myname: 'id' in the sense used in citations 18:48:49 Not 'I.D.' but the word 'id' (like 'ego and superego) 18:49:06 *(like 'ego' and 'superego', but not at all related to that meaning) 18:49:13 that way you aren't checking for knowledge of the muffin man separately from asking about it, which means you don't have to worry about what happens if the muffin man changes status 18:49:13 that said, I don't think there's an actual bug in this case, just a code smell 18:49:15 ais523: How so? 18:49:25 Ah, yes 18:49:39 It would be more efficient to just directly ask 18:49:41 hppavilion[1]: say I write "does the user have permission to read this file? if so, give the user a copy of the file" 18:49:50 that contains a bug, and one that's been widely exploited 18:49:55 ais523: But this is designed to be a language for communication rather than a programming language 18:50:01 if the user has any ability to change the referent of "this file" mid-program (say with a symlink) 18:50:18 (Primarily for talking to strong AIs) 18:50:27 strong AIs will probably just learn English 18:50:34 even weak AIs are decent at understanding it at this point 18:50:36 ais523: Well yeah, but this is more fun 18:50:50 (Also, even if they learn English, that still leads to confusion and ambiguity) 18:51:15 you could as well just wrote prolog, you know 18:51:22 myname: Well yeah... 18:51:45 It would also be nice for talking to people where you don't share a conventional language, because it's symbolic enough that you should be able to learn it without brute memorization 18:51:54 (The only issue is that things like 'muffin man' don't translate easily) 18:52:12 myname: it's hard to express "I do not know the muffin man" in Prolog without making an explicit statement about your knowledge status, which would be weird and unidiomatic 18:52:59 like, you can express "My knowledge state about the muffin man is that the muffin man is unknown" in Prolog, but it looks just as weird in Prolog as it does in English 18:53:07 &['muffin man'] = ['mulberry lane'];; 18:53:11 and would only serve as an answer to a question if the question were formulated in a similar way 18:53:46 more idiomatic would be to make no statement about the muffin man, which in Prolog means something along the lines of "if you asked me about the muffin man, I wouldn't have anything to say" 18:54:07 (and any question about the muffin man would be replied to with an answer that meant the information was not available) 18:54:57 by the way, are there any fans of the language curry here? 18:55:34 A simple conversation would be [2]> ?(['muffin man'].ü);; [1]> ¬(['muffin man'.i); ?(['muffin man'].ü) ↠ ?[id];; [2]> &['muffin man'] = ['mulberry lane'];; 18:56:37 ais523: Also, 'id' necessarily means 'the last value directly used' 18:56:54 hppavilion[1]: I'm not really interested in hyperlegalistic conlangs 18:56:55 By definition 18:57:07 OK... 18:57:29 I just think it's fun because it looks like what a muggle would expect talking to a computer to be like 18:57:34 hppavilion[1]: if so, why don't use it in ?() already? 18:58:11 (the literal reading of "?(['cat'].ü) ↠ ?[id];;" is actually "query meaning 'cat' dependent query current user knows meaning 'cat' end 18:58:11 ") 18:58:27 myname: ? 18:58:44 why not ?([id].ü)? 18:59:03 instead of mentioning muffin man there 19:00:04 Ah, because id is- or at least was- local to the message, so that things don't constantly conflict 19:00:26 (You can't use 'id' to reference a value used 30 lines ago, basically) 19:00:39 Oooooh I see 19:00:42 Good point 19:01:48 (I can actually drop the 'i' in "['muffin man'].i", too; if you just say "x." it's assumed that you mean yourself) 19:13:52 -!- fungot has joined. 19:14:12 fungot: hi! 19:14:12 oerjan: i'd call the lambda with the parameters in the url above. 19:15:09 fungot: surprisingly, i don't think anyone's mentioned a url since i joined. 19:15:09 oerjan: shutting that down kills the program 19:15:42 fungot: well yes, that's usually the point of shutting down. 19:15:42 oerjan: have you tasted fnord 99% cocoa chocolate? ;p it might make sense 19:16:07 fungot: not to my knowledge, but maybe it was fnord without me noticing. 19:16:07 oerjan: you're completely destroying a lot of cases where the result is a big fan of the language 19:16:32 fungot: OKAY 19:16:57 fungot: burn me 19:16:57 int-e: that is the sense that you can't already do? ( the interface to it. 19:17:11 fungot: try again? 19:17:11 int-e: how can anyone believe in something" stance is incredibly irritating at times, and it seems so abstract compared to c 19:18:18 so true 19:25:07 <\oren\> c is the basis of all reality 19:25:27 <\oren\> well, under c is machine code 19:25:32 that explains why so much of reality seems undefined 19:26:04 <\oren\> that's because the machine code is unreadable 19:28:08 nah, it's because each of us runs reality through a different c compiler, with different undefined behaviors 19:30:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:32:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:38:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:57:34 hmm, I'm testing out a sentence in Google Translate, translating into German 19:57:47 if I write the input sentence in lowercase, it translates "you" into "Sie" 19:58:00 if I capitalise the first letter, I get "Du" as the translation instead 19:58:23 this does not really fill me with confidence 19:58:38 (from the actual original sentence, it probably translates to "Man") 19:59:40 what's the first word? 20:00:09 it would be weird for it to consider a sentence more formal if not capitalized... 20:00:12 "you" 20:00:14 oh. 20:00:25 and yes, it struck me that if it's differentiating on that, it has it backwards 20:00:43 to be precise, the original was a sentence fragment "you're likely to need a lot more characters to express something in German than you are in Japanese" 20:00:55 and I was using it to experiment to see how true the statement was 20:01:14 don't we have a translationbot in here somewhere? 20:02:18 HackEgo used to, but the code bitrotted 20:02:37 and then all networking did, i think. hm. 20:03:12 `wget https://www.google.com/ 20:03:13 ​--2016-09-21 19:03:00-- https://www.google.com/ \ Resolving www.google.com (www.google.com)... failed: Name or service not known. \ wget: unable to resolve host address `www.google.com' 20:03:26 yep, looks dead. 20:03:42 (except `fetch) 20:05:54 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:09:19 . o O ( Man braucht wahrscheinlich viel mehr Zeichen, um etwas in Deutsch auszudrücken, als in Japanisch. ) 20:09:49 if i try to clean up and use Man 20:11:05 lapsang souchong is tg 20:11:15 hm except that doesn't preserve the original duplication. 20:11:26 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:11:55 Man braucht wahrscheinlich viel mehr Zeichen, um etwas in Deutsch auszudrücken, als man in Japanisch braucht. 20:12:17 or wait 20:12:33 probably shouldn't put the last "braucht" last. 20:12:49 * oerjan needs a native speaker 20:13:11 I don't think I qualify as a native speaker of any language. 20:13:20 shocking 20:16:26 Tanta til Beate snur sin gamle plate ennå en gang, og server te med melk (Lap-sang-sou-chong!) 20:20:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjEfK-0UhTo 20:32:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 20:33:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:38:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:50:03 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:50:14 `olist 1053 20:50:15 olist 1053: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 20:50:24 wob_jonas: It's already been olisted. 20:50:48 has it? I checked the logs and didn't see it, sorry 20:50:49 can we program `olist to remember the number it's given as argument 20:50:56 oh indeed it has 20:51:01 ais523: yes, you should 20:51:03 and not list if it's already seen an equal or larger number? 20:51:10 well it's not my list, and I'm not on it :-P 20:51:35 mine is `list I think (although it's not using my original implementation any more and hasn't for years) 20:51:44 well, given that i _saw_ it in the logs... 20:52:29 `cat bin/list 20:52:30 date > share/conscripts; culprits share/conscripts | xargs -n 1 | awk '!x[$0]++' | xargs 20:52:47 `cat share/conscripts 20:52:48 Sat May 14 12:44:55 UTC 2016 20:52:57 ais523: I don't know that I want it to make a commit for every olist, but it could put something in tmp/ 20:52:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:52:59 not for a while, it seems 20:53:01 today's girl genius is pretty meta. and with one avatar hauling another... 20:53:15 shachaf: commits aren't very expensive, surely 20:53:43 yeah, they shouldn't be expensive in sane version control systems 20:53:48 But olists come so frequently that HackEgo might not be able to handle the load. 20:54:12 no, OOTS posts don't come that often at all 20:54:24 Anyway they're expensive conceptually, not in terms of computer cost. 20:54:25 and a non-unique `olist wouldn't need a commit 20:55:04 * oerjan tweaks ais523's joke detector 20:55:29 wait, that was meant to be sarcasm? it doesn't look like it 20:55:55 Yes, it was not serious. olists are very infrequent. 20:56:08 It may have been a joke about HackEgo being very slow nowadays, but I'm not sure. 20:56:20 to be fair, they're a bit more frequent these days than they used to be for a while 20:56:38 FireFly: there was a big gap due to the author getting injured 20:56:44 Aha 20:56:55 apart from that, there's rarely been a gap of more than two weeks except at the end of a book (which always gives a defined date for when the comic will resume) 20:56:58 I didn't realise that 20:57:04 shachaf: HackEgo has sped up recently 20:57:08 `echo hi 20:57:09 hi 20:57:12 oerjan: True. 20:57:20 it tends to be slower if nobody's used it for a while 20:57:30 maybe it has to swap back into memory or something 20:57:33 ais523: even considering that. 20:57:34 -!- Caesura has joined. 20:58:16 so we need to use it more often to make it less slow? hmm 20:58:28 subtle encouragement to use the service 20:58:31 I like it 21:01:00 -!- gamemanj has joined. 21:01:02 In http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3312 , has the cop chosen this bar because she's got dimmers installed there so she can dim the lights when she says something dramatic, just like Tarquin does in his palacE? 21:01:15 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:04:03 Maybe it's a smokebomb pie? 21:04:13 Like, three slices of smokebomb, one of edible pie. 21:10:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:21:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:21:27 -!- tuttobene has joined. 21:21:43 , 21:21:58 `relcome tuttobene 21:22:00 ​tuttobene: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 21:22:09 :) 21:23:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:25:15 When writing research papers about programming, does a manual of writing mechanics for this field exist, such as the APA Manual of Style in the field of Psychology? 21:25:41 I haven't used anything like that, I've just tried to imitate the style of typical papers 21:26:00 I've no idea, I don't write such papers. 21:26:03 most programming papers are conference papers anyway rather than journal papers, so people hold them to a slightly lower standard due to the need to make deadlines being larger 21:29:07 ok, thanks 21:29:37 Should I write papers? 21:29:46 I've never done it. 21:29:53 shachaf: no 21:30:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:30:05 unless you need it for a degree or something 21:31:13 you just code? 21:31:49 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:33:04 i guess the need to write papers comes when something has to be explained 21:33:23 a technique, or a concept 21:36:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:40:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:44:44 -!- keemyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:49:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:58:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:02:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Patching...). 22:03:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:04:19 * FireFly points local irssi users at the recent global notice 22:05:20 hm now my backscroll is working strangely, only half the window scrolls... 22:05:41 oh and my line overwrote FireFly's :( 22:05:59 It's okay, I rarely say anything of importance anyway 22:06:27 ok this bandaid patch is horribly buggy. 22:06:31 FireFly: you just did, though 22:06:50 Not of importance to oerjan, though. 22:07:14 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:07:44 The better alternative would probably be to upgrade, of course 22:07:58 over applying the hacky patch 22:08:00 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:09:24 FireFly: i don't control this server. 22:09:30 Ah 22:10:12 testing 22:10:43 `? peer 22:10:44 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 22:12:26 that makes no sense 22:13:46 does anything in the wisdom database? 22:14:21 -!- keemyb has joined. 22:14:35 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:19:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Trying something...). 22:20:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:20:48 testing again 22:21:21 ic, the problem doesn't appear if i don't use tmux. 22:22:56 @ping 22:22:56 pong 22:22:59 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:23:12 hmm I just pulled Debian's security update... (cf. https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2016/msg00251.html ) 22:24:45 * int-e is trying to figure out whether oerjan is connected to irssi-0.8.20 in screen somehow, wondering whether this combination should be avoided. 22:26:01 int-e: i'm still on 0.8.17, using the bandaid script 22:26:14 i'm not in screen either. 22:26:19 oh. 22:26:31 it gave me trouble in tmux. 22:26:54 AH, I missed a negation there, funny how that totally distorts the meaning of sentences... 22:28:27 (this negation: "[...] if i don't use tmux.") 22:31:02 * oerjan found the irc channel for the admins of this server. they seem a bit idle. 22:31:27 (the one i'm running irssi from) 22:31:51 is there any idlerpg bot running? :P 22:32:05 what is that 22:32:31 http://idlerpg.net/ 22:33:00 I didn't realise it had a website 22:33:04 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:32 it also seems a lot more involved than the typical idling competitions 22:34:42 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:18 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:35:29 please don't 22:36:24 myname: to clarify, I meant to ask oerjan whether there is such a bot in that channel he found. 22:37:01 ah 22:39:13 i doubt it. i'm the only one speaking. someone (who is also idle) opped me automatically when i joined. 22:39:55 hmm, idlerpg gives a much larger penalty for parts than for quits 22:39:59 which is bizarre 22:40:40 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:42:00 has this been mentioned in the channel yet?: http://calesyta.xyz/ 22:42:05 according to proggit, it's an Argentinian esolang design contest 22:42:19 "Concurso Argentino de Lenguajes Esotéricos y Tarpits", right does seem like one… 22:43:00 ais523: /part is almost definitely a manual action; quits also happen due to disconnects, reboots, etc. 22:43:31 "Valoramos que el lenguaje tenga ideas novedosas o interesantes. A nadie le interesa otra variante de Brainf*ck." 22:43:39 int-e: but not getting disconnected is the whole point of idling competitions 22:44:49 ais523: :P 22:45:01 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:45:22 oerjan: the people running this seem fairly familiar with esolang design :-D 22:45:50 ais523: I guess parting a channel sends a much stronger message than quitting... not sure it's really saying as much as 200 characters of text though ;-) 22:46:26 you can fit way more than 200 characters in a part message (or a quit message, for that matter) 22:46:30 anyway, I really recall IdleRPG it because, as you said, it is surprisingly elaborate for an idling game. 22:46:49 s/it// 22:46:57 IdleMMORPG 22:46:59 * int-e typos too much, good night. 22:49:04 -!- digin4 has joined. 22:51:04 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:58:48 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:02:11 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:04:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:04:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:07:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:11:17 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49751 * Tanner Swett * (+3677) Create page 23:11:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:20:09 [wiki] [[SMETANA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49752&oldid=42677 * Tanner Swett * (+449) /* Related languages */ Add "SMETANA To Infinity!" 23:20:40 ͲhΞ g׀ǐČħ ϸ®ʘǵrҿssEs 23:31:46 So, I've created SMETANA To Infinity! 23:31:47 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:34:31 -!- shachaf has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 23:34:50 -!- shachaf has joined. 23:35:38 It's like SMETANA, but you can specify infinitely many instructions. 23:36:21 Here's an example program: 23:36:46 Step n. Go to step 3n + 1. Step 2n. Go to step n. Step 1. Go to step 1000000. Step 4. Stop. 23:39:05 does it choose the most specific step or how does it choose between Step 2n and Step n? 23:39:49 It chooses whichever one was specified last within the program. 23:40:04 Since Step 2n was specified later, it overwrites Step n for even n. 23:40:47 The Collatz conjecture is equivalent to the statement that my example halts if you replace 1000000 with any positive integer. 23:41:42 tswett: i claim approximate plagiarism hth 23:42:13 (i posted something called SMETANA+1 way back on the sange.fi mailing list) 23:42:56 but that's so long ago it probably never happened 23:43:08 * oerjan swats olsner -----### 23:44:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:45:00 how swatful of you 23:45:52 tswett: is there any way to make a good fizzbuzz with this using "step 3n", "step 5n"? 23:46:21 Kinda. 23:46:58 Step n. Output character n. Step 3n. Output character 101. Step 5n. Output character 102. Step 15n. Output character 103. Step 101. Stop. 23:47:27 I can do a little better than that. 23:47:41 tswett: i think my version required step expressions to be non-overlapping, though. 23:49:38 Step n. Swap step 1 with step 1. Step 2n. Output character n. Step 10n. Output character 102. Step 6n. Output character 101. Step 30n+1. Output character 102. Step 201. Stop. 23:49:40 Something like that. 2016-09-22: 00:01:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:02:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:07:26 it strikes me that a decimal conversion function would be fairly hard in that language 00:07:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:11:31 hm i suddenly realized you can do collatz functions with just GOTO there 00:11:55 i didn't know that back in 2002 or when it was, i thought SWAP was necessary for TC-ness of it. 00:13:31 (i had a version with more elaborate labels that even then i realized needed only GOTO) 00:15:17 the admin upgraded irssi on some of the servers, but not this one yet for some reason. going to bed -> 00:15:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:29:50 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:43 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:30:48 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:31:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:31:43 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:48 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:35:12 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:35:33 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:18 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:36:29 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:30 `` sed -i 's/\.$/ and rejecting scientific papers./' wisdom/peer 00:37:34 No output. 00:37:39 `? peer 00:37:40 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections and rejecting scientific papers. 00:37:48 :) 00:40:50 did you just copy the joke at the beginning of the sentence 01:00:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:04:24 ...oh. 01:04:54 Must have been added at some point 01:05:07 `revert 01:05:21 `? peer 01:05:22 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:05:23 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:05:46 (Maybe we mention how e serves on US juries as well?) 01:05:54 what someone can do is fix the awkward grammar 01:06:11 No, you don't need to stuff every flavor of ice cream into one cone. 01:06:18 `` sed -i 's/his/His/' wisdom/peer 01:06:21 Fine... 01:06:21 No output. 01:06:28 `? peer 01:06:29 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. His reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:07:00 `revert 01:07:02 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:07:15 That wisdom entry is lowercase on purpose. 01:07:21 ...did I miss something? 01:07:23 Why? 01:07:41 * hppavilion[1] waits for the obvious pun to set in 01:07:48 For ambiguity. 01:07:58 There was a discussion when oerjan first added it. 01:08:03 `` dowg peer | tac 01:08:04 2016-06-11 learn peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people\'s irc connections. \ 2016-09-15 slwd peer//s#.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# \ 2016-09-15 revert \ 2016-09-15 slwd peer//s#\\.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# \ 2016-09-21 ` s 01:09:01 you are like an elephant in a china shop 01:09:19 OH, is 'his' short for something? Probably "Health Information Service"? 01:09:29 shachaf: Elephants wish they were this clumsy. 01:10:34 I hate reading IRC logs of myself. 01:17:51 [wiki] [[Vrejvax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49753&oldid=31396 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* External resources */ deadlink 01:37:34 Whenever I try a code line that fails, then another one which fails, and so on, I comment those lines with a label "N/G". And I keep those lines; so as to know what not to try again. Thus my source file is not "clean"---but it's hella powerful for maintenance/refactoring. 01:38:33 no? 01:44:30 tuttobene: I don't think I've heard of that practice before. 01:45:44 It seems like rather than saying "I tried doing A, B, and C all together, and the combination didn't work", it would be more useful to say "do not do B, because that won't work". 01:46:16 hm. From Don Knuth, if i remember correctly, idea of Literary programming. 01:48:09 So now I'm pondering how you could convert 1-bit Brainfuck to SMETANA To Infinity!. 01:48:39 what makes me do that is usually poorly written documentation. Because the only way to solve an ambiguity of definitions is to try the meanings of the thing. 01:49:03 tuttobene: literate programming? I think it's about interspersing a program with prose describing it 01:49:40 FireFly: yes, "Literate" programming 01:49:46 GHC supports .lhs files where only programs starting with > (IIRC) are actually interpreted.. so basically the default mode is "comment" and you have to opt-in for code, rather than the other way around 01:50:15 heh heh ... the man was a genius 01:50:34 still is 01:50:43 :) 01:51:36 I'm thinkin' you'd use the first part of memory to contain the BF program, and the remainder to contain the tape. Each tape cell would be realized as a few STI! memory cells. 01:52:05 You could keep track of the content using a couple of instructions like this: 01:52:38 Step 1000. Go to step 1. Step 1001. Go to step 2. 01:52:43 If you want to flip the memory cell, that's: 01:52:52 Step 1002. Swap step 1000 with step 1001. 01:53:21 tswett: doesn't that only let you flip a specific, hardcoded cell? rather than being able to index? 01:53:52 Yeah, memory location 1002 will be only for flipping that one cell. 01:54:01 If you want to flip the cell at 2000, then jump to 2002 instead. 01:54:27 -!- moon__ has joined. 01:55:03 I think we could say... 01:55:15 ah right 01:55:21 Step 3 always contains an instruction that means "Go to step [whichever one flips the current cell]". 01:55:33 now I'm heavily reminded of The Amnesiac From Minsk 01:55:39 Step 4 always says "Go to step [whichever one moves us left]", step 5 always says "go to step [whichever one moves us right]". 01:55:47 because the basic issue is that once you've flipped a cell, you lose track of where you were 01:55:50 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:56:05 but of course you can work around this via holding the state that keeps track of the instruction pointer elsewhere 01:56:38 And each BF tape cell contains code to swap something else into all of those places. 01:57:34 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 01:57:57 Steps 1003, 1004, and 1005 could be the "storage locations" for the steps that are intended to be placed at locations 3, 4, and 5. 01:59:03 Step 1006 can be the "entry point" for flipping the current cell. It will look like... "Step 1006. Swap step 1000 with step 1001. Step 1007. Go to step 6." 01:59:57 We can say that step 6 is sort of the standard return location. 02:01:48 what's wrong with BF? 02:01:58 If step 1008 is the entry point for moving right, it'll say something like... "Step 1008. Swap step 3 with step 1003. Step 1009. Swap step 2003 with step 3. Step 1010. Swap step 4 with step 1004. Step 1011. Swap step 2004 with step 4. Step 1012. Swap step 5 with step 1005. Step 1013. Swap step 2005 with step 5. Step 1014. Go to step 6." 02:02:09 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:02:19 tuttobene: who said there was something wrong with it? 02:02:55 * tuttobene shrugs 02:04:22 Step 1015 will be the entry point for moving left, and steps 1015 through 1021 will be analogous. But ignore the fact that the tape cell at step 1000 is the leftmost one... 02:08:51 I want to see 'this statement is a lie' Fawlty Tower plotted 02:09:24 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:24:32 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:24:49 -!- moon__ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 02:24:57 -!- 64MAAZPA1 has joined. 02:26:10 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 02:26:10 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 02:26:13 -!- Akaibu has quit. 02:50:03 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!/brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49754 * Tanner Swett * (+4378) Created page with "A tape of 1-bit memory cells can be implemented like this: # We assume that steps 1 through 6 are laid out like this: # # 1 through 3: The desired return location for an o..." 02:57:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Calesyta * New user account 02:58:45 huh, it's the people behind the esolang contest 02:59:53 Imagine that. 03:00:21 Cale syta 03:16:56 -!- the-manless-man has joined. 03:22:38 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:23:04 -!- moon__ has joined. 03:31:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:35:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:24:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:28:05 my new isp blocks thepiratebay and a bunch of torrent related sites but i can still seed and download torrents 04:28:39 It's somewhat harder to block BitTorrent itself. 04:29:07 Not impossible, but you need to do traffic analysis rather than just block some hosts or IP addresses. 04:32:04 -!- Kaynato has joined. 04:35:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:52:32 I should watch Growing a Language... 04:52:43 izalove: Which ISP do you have? 04:52:48 (What country?) 04:52:49 3 04:52:51 italy 04:52:54 Ah 04:53:03 Your country's freedom laws are terrible 04:53:08 they're fine 04:53:12 my isp sucks 04:53:16 (ISPs should never, EVER be allowed to filter internet) 04:53:27 izalove: The fact that the ISP can legally do that indicates a problem 04:54:04 I agree, but it's pretty common. 04:54:29 I can at least understand it with blocking port 25, though. 05:00:56 I'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahvzDzKdB0 (the talk where Guy Steele only let himself use 1-syllable words and n-syllable words defined in terms of previous words) 05:01:35 I was about to say he slipped up, then I remembered he defined plurals earlier 05:07:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:08:42 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:10:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 05:19:31 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:00:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:25 -!- augur has joined. 06:05:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:17:43 -!- the-manless-man has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:44:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:50:58 i just found the best subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/PaidForWinRAR/ 06:53:01 ok i was overly excited by the name but the actual posts aren't that funny 06:54:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:59:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:01:58 -!- 64MAAZPA1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:05:39 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwiFl6w5fUE 07:07:40 <\oren\> polish vocals in a touhou song? what sorcery is this? 07:08:36 <\oren\> hooray for global cultural mixing! 07:14:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:14:52 -!- heroux has joined. 07:19:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:29:37 -!- augur has joined. 07:38:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:44:42 (I have yet to encounter at my high school... in fact, I haven't encountered ANY students at school with any /semblance/ of power or even prestige) 07:47:58 turns out real life is boring 07:48:44 lol 07:49:12 -!- augur has joined. 07:55:26 Could someone show me what Unicode U+2055 character looks like in your system? 07:56:18 ⁕ looks like an asterisk in my browser, and a replacement character in my terminal. 07:57:39 replacement char? something like a dash? 07:58:09 No, like U+FFFD 08:03:29 thanks. I get the asterisk in Gnome char mapper, but a dash in Vim. I think the problem is the font i use in Vim. 08:03:51 DejaVu Sans Mono 08:06:12 IRC seems ok: U+2055 ⁕ 08:23:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:45:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:46:07 <\oren\> I have that in my font 08:46:18 <\oren\> it's a eight pointed asterisk 08:51:42 -!- carado has joined. 08:55:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:38 <\oren\> Hmm, I can't draw the correct character for U+2673 in 9x16, so I'm gonna draw it as プラ１ 09:26:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:34:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:34:43 -!- augur has joined. 10:14:59 -!- tuttobene has quit. 11:16:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:27:33 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:40 bohily 11:30:59 hellørjan. 11:35:49 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49755&oldid=49751 * Oerjan * (+205) /* Computational class */ Thought of this yesterday. 12:24:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PROTECTED CHICKEN). 13:21:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:34:24 -!- moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:41:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:45:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:07:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:11:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:13:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:44:32 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:03:34 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: My microwave oven blew the fuse). 15:04:12 -!- nortti has joined. 15:10:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:16:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:55:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:03:43 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:06:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:26:20 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:36:40 @oeis 7,31,19,25,22,47,23,35,29 16:36:41 Sequence not found. 16:38:44 -!- wanderman has joined. 16:47:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:47:49 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:52:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:01:14 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:03:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:03:08 hi, \oren 17:03:14 argh 17:03:18 hi, \oren\ 17:03:52 how's the hangul glyphs in your font coming along? 17:07:15 is fungot back yet? 17:07:15 wob_jonas: and what a kludgy hacks those were. mohkale sent me a fnord 17:07:34 fungot: WHAT? you call them kludgy hacks? 17:07:35 wob_jonas: as opposed to a list of lists like ( ( a d) is not exactly a cml manual, but it 17:07:38 they weren't that bad 17:08:45 "((a d)" does look like the start of a list of lists, but it was never finished 17:13:57 fungot, close that list 17:13:58 wob_jonas: seems to be also noticeably slower than the native back end, was at transmeta and completely disconnected from scheme for several years despite having properly paid work too. 17:14:17 transmeta? 17:14:32 where linus worked 17:15:09 yeah, but how does that get in this fungot theme? 17:15:10 wob_jonas: for an example. named-let replaces the need for lambda i am bit lost on how it was put up, i get down to bickering about do versus named let versus whatever else for the newton because dylan didn't fit right at the beginning 17:15:10 they were a CPU manufacturer, and wanted Linux to do well 17:15:24 because it would mean that there's be no particular reason not to switch your computer to a Transmeta CPU 17:15:50 while Windows is the #1 OS, it gives something of an advantage to Intel and to a lesser extent AMD, making it harder for other CPU manufacturers to compete 17:17:17 ais523: the part that making modern cpus is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of development cost paid up front before they can sell anything so only the largest companies can do it might also be part of it 17:18:30 so after a while everyone but intel and amd gave up making hardware x86 cpus, and amd is having a hard time catching up now too, intel might get the monopoly 17:23:37 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:26:39 wob_jonas: #scheme, 2006-12-27: Guillermo Rozas, who revived the C back end, was at Transmeta and completely disconnected from Scheme for several years. 17:27:27 fizzie: heh 17:27:33 so that's where that's from 17:41:21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHReqKRvonE you need to watch this video 17:49:26 <\oren\> RRGH 17:50:26 ohai \oren\, how's the hangul font coming? 17:50:49 <\oren\> idiots. the thing you stand on is a podium, from "pod" = foot. the thing you read your notes from is a lectern from "lectura" = read 17:51:22 <\oren\> but noooo apparently americans call a lectern a podium 17:51:33 why is it so upsetting? 17:51:45 what? would they really do that? 17:52:07 that's almost like calling diapers nappies 17:52:19 or calling underwear pants 17:52:36 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it's sort of working. I still need to convert back from my ad-hoc bitmap format to BDF 17:53:02 good 17:53:04 that shouldn't be hard 17:53:21 <\oren\> (the ad-hoc bitmap format is simply an array of 16 unsigneds, one for each row of pixels) 17:53:52 <\oren\> yeah i think I'll have it done by midnight today 17:53:55 great, then you don't even need to transpose 17:54:16 just print it as hexadecimal and put some headers on it 17:54:23 possibly reverse the bits or nibbles or bytes 17:54:27 <\oren\> essentially yes 17:54:53 <\oren\> the hard part was designeing the various forms for each jamo 17:54:58 yep 17:55:02 definitely 17:55:16 16x16 is just so small for this 17:57:32 <\oren\> yeah. I'm using different line widths depending on what fits 17:57:50 <\oren\> but I might change to only thin lines, if that looks better 18:02:46 if anyone calls a lift an "elevator", I'll find out if "overuse of description" is a crime. 18:03:41 isn't "elevator" just the en_US name for them? 18:04:33 Hmm, true. 18:08:32 -!- izalove has set topic: cool, i can change the topic again | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 18:09:54 <\oren\> Ohhh shiyut! Brian Pagliano, the guy who refused to come to a hearing, was held in contempt of congress. 18:10:24 <\oren\> he could serve jailtime for that 18:10:33 um 18:10:42 what does that mean? 18:10:49 "held in contempt of congress"? 18:11:05 <\oren\> wob_jonas: he was served a subpoena to come and testify, but refused to show up 18:11:21 <\oren\> that is itself a crime 18:11:24 ah 18:11:30 ok 18:11:39 and they call that "held in contempt of congress"? 18:11:44 what does "congress" even mean there? 18:12:19 <\oren\> well the hearing was before the House of Representatives, that is, the lower house of their parliament which they call "congress" 18:12:34 oh 18:12:42 he was summoned to the congress? 18:12:43 I see 18:12:59 <\oren\> yeah, they wanted to ask him about erasing Hillary's emails 18:13:51 <\oren\> they're really driving the issue into the bedrock 18:13:57 \oren\: source? I'd expect this to be all over Reddit because it's the sort of story they love, but I can't see it anywhere on the relevant front pages 18:14:19 <\oren\> ais523: I watched them vote to fdo it about an hour ago 18:14:43 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivw1BDLpdaw 18:14:49 fdo? is that another extension of the monad do syntax? 18:14:52 ah right, the media probably haven't had a chance to write about it yet 18:15:12 we're faster than news sites here on #esoteric? no way 18:15:17 I mean, come on 18:15:21 well it's almost completely offtopic 18:15:26 also surprising 18:15:29 <\oren\> yeah. i have an alert that tells me when the house is streaming on youtube 18:15:47 you'd expect him to turn up and take the fifth repeatedly, given things that have happened so ar 18:15:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:15:56 <\oren\> so that I can see their governement tear itself apart in real time 18:16:09 *far 18:16:26 unfortunately this probably raises the chances of Trump getting elected 18:16:31 <\oren\> ais523: two other people did show up and take the fifth repeatedly 18:17:04 <\oren\> he didn't even bother showing up, and sent a lawyer to say that he was taking the fifth. 18:17:23 <\oren\> that's not really something you're allowed to do unfortunately for him 18:17:43 didn't the lawyer tell him that? 18:17:57 I mean, seriously, ignoring a summons to congress? how can he be that stupid? 18:18:07 does he have so much money he's planning to disappear completely? 18:18:55 <\oren\> Also, they subpoena'ed the FBI last week. I think this is a show of power to tell the FBI that they can and will hold the entire FBI in contempt if necessary 18:19:25 <\oren\> they asked to FBI for every scrap of paper they have on hillary clinton 18:19:48 wow 18:19:53 that might be a lot of papers 18:19:58 <\oren\> yeah... 18:20:29 <\oren\> they were mad that the FBI only gave them some select documents that they thought would help 18:21:12 congress is Republican-controlled, right? they're probably looking for a scandal about hillary that they can use to help them win the election 18:21:13 <\oren\> and the FBI blacked out a bunch of names and emails from the files, which they werent suppose to 18:21:19 <\oren\> ais523: yes 18:22:24 <\oren\> this entire thing is to undermine hillary, and they will probably continue to do it even if she wins 18:22:49 well duh 18:22:59 that's how politics always works 18:23:03 <\oren\> as I said I want to watch the US governement tear itself apart in real time. because it's funny 18:23:38 it's not funny 18:23:53 <\oren\> It's funny to me! I have a sane government 18:24:18 it's still not funny. it might have bad effects. 18:24:36 unfortunately the US is large enough that it affects the world 18:24:46 exactly 18:24:52 :-( 18:24:56 in the nethack devteam we're seriously debating whether US crypto export regulations prevent us using a good RNG 18:25:28 ais523: haven't they changed those crypto export regulations five or ten years ago? 18:25:39 wob_jonas: yes but they still aren't entirely removed 18:25:49 with open source programs you're meant to send them a link to the repo, I think 18:25:58 um 18:26:27 closed source has tighter restrictions 18:26:28 isn't the limitation now only that you can't export anything to north korea and cuba and iran and whoever they think of embargoing, regardless of whether cryptography is even involved? 18:26:35 I don't think so 18:26:52 apparently even the UK has a crypto export restriction, I can't remember the exact details 18:26:58 except that it's less restrictive than the US's 18:27:36 <\oren\> keep your server IN cuba, problem solved 18:27:37 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:27:50 so the people with AES tattoos still can't travel on international airplanes? 18:28:03 \oren\: no good, then you still can't export to north korea 18:28:04 <\oren\> no laws about IMPORTing crypto FROM cuba right? 18:28:11 \oren\: I say keep your server in north korea instead 18:28:15 hmm no 18:28:16 not exactly sure how you can get an AES tattoo 18:28:17 that wouldn't work either 18:28:18 could be painful 18:28:27 lots of code 18:28:51 \oren\: I think the US doesn't allow that either 18:28:59 or maybe it does, I dunno 18:29:54 ais523: well, this is news to me 18:30:03 I thought the US stopped with that thing 18:30:21 I mean, debian stopped having a separate repository for a version of debian with the crypto stuff stripped ages ago 18:30:55 meh, everybody who wants crypto will get crypto anyway 18:31:02 wob_jonas: http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us 18:31:03 it's not like export restrictions actually mean anything 18:31:33 gamemanj: that part isn't the problem 18:32:25 I get the feeling that the problem is that although if you exported crypto illegally you'd be fine, if another company's lawyers knew your company was exporting crypto, they'd get annoyed and make a fuss 18:32:40 "Unrestricted crypto source code (like most "open source" software) and publicly available commercial source code (like "community source" code) can be exported to any end-user under a license exception without a technical review. BXA (BIS) must be given a copy or the URL of the source code. All other source code can be exported under license exception after a technial review to any non-government end-user. One may not, however, knowlingly export 18:32:42 source code to a terrorist country, although source code may be posted on the WWW for downloading without the poster having to check whether it is downloaded from a terrorist country." 18:33:39 So, basically, they're marking off countries and saying they're "terrorist countries"? 18:33:57 Now I know where Trump got his lines from. 18:34:34 Just say "We are at war with country X, and we intend to take the land and add an extra state to America if we win." 18:35:15 (This is probably a bad idea for several reasons.) 18:36:18 gamemanj: by "terrorist coutry" they mean the countries where the terrorists buy military equipment from Russia, not from the US, so the US is pissed and sets embargoes against them so they can't buy weapons from the US later either. 18:42:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:44:24 "On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly available), are no longer subject to the EAR. The amendment includes some minor 18:44:25 specific revisions." 18:44:31 OK, /that/ seems like it's usable for NetHack 18:46:57 or, hmm 18:47:00 I'm reading the actual law behind it now, and it's confusing 18:48:42 <\oren\> gamemanj: he didn'tsay he'd take the land, just the oil under it. but it amounts to the same thing 18:50:25 ais523: Europe probably still has stupid agreements remaining from the world war 2 peace treaties limiting producing weapons, and since back in the world war, armies actually used cryptography in wars, maybe it covers crypto stuff too 18:51:15 wob_jonas: most of Europe uses the Wassenaar Arrangement 18:51:23 which is about things that have both civilian and military purposes 18:51:49 ais523: could you tell me what the connection to nethack is? 18:51:53 "things that have both civilian and miliatry purposes" => that's about most things in the world 18:52:19 myname: ais523 distributes a cryptographic random generator with nethack4. 18:52:25 myname: a random number generator can be used as a stream cipher, or vice versa 18:52:35 and he's in the devteam now 18:52:40 if you want to remove various RNG exploits, the RNG needs to be powerful enough that it makes for a fairly good stream cipher 18:52:45 nice 18:53:04 and, in fact, using an /actual/ stream cipher is probably better than trying to design one manually 18:53:17 <\oren\> apparently when someon is held in contempt, they have the option to order the sergeant at arms to drag the person to the capitol in chains 18:53:43 <\oren\> this hasn't been done since 1937 but they could do it tomorrow if they wanted 18:53:45 right. and you can't just use a crypto random generator from the system libraries because DOS doesn't have one and nethack wants to ... no wait 18:53:46 hmm, in the UK it's spelled serjeant at arms for some reason (even though "serjeant" is not a real word in any other context) 18:54:01 they normally do nothing, but one time a protester broke into the house of commons 18:54:06 <\oren\> they don't have to go through a coury in that case 18:54:11 and the serjeant at arms actually drew his sword on the protester 18:54:19 <\oren\> they can just vote to jail the guy 18:54:19 ...that sounds awesome 18:54:30 I like to think that he'd been waiting for years for that opportunity 18:54:45 <\oren\> Canada's sergeant at arms shot a terrorist a while ago 18:54:58 <\oren\> kevin vickers 18:55:36 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Texck-TbkM 18:55:53 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GofES3-TzJw <- better video 18:57:00 <\oren\> trigger wrning: steven colbert 18:57:57 on another point, what should i add to the df like after hauling and a workshop system works fine? i will add the concept of rooms next, but i have no clear line after that 18:58:13 remember when this channel wasn't about politics? those were good times... 18:58:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:58:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:59:18 myname: Some sort of device that counts the other devices directly adjacent to it (horizontally, diagonally and vertically), 18:59:32 gamemanj: what for? 18:59:33 <\oren\> myname: add pots and barrels and other containers 18:59:42 int-e: this channel is very rarely about esolangs, unfortunately 18:59:45 I prefer it when it is though 19:00:04 i have barrels and you can brew with seeds (because of lack of plants :D) 19:00:08 at this point, I don't really feel comfortable declaring anything in particular offtopic unless it's problematic for another reason, because it's hard to deduce what the topic of the channel even /is/ 19:00:09 if the amount is less than 2, the device should self-destruct, if the amount is more than 3, it should self-destruct, and if there is a space in the area with exactly 3 neighbors, 19:00:16 it should create a new device there. 19:00:43 gamemanj: i see what you did there 19:00:44 (just copied from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life ) 19:00:47 <\oren\> gamemanj: that sounds more like a good behaviour for a monster 19:00:51 \oren\, ais523: about dragging in chains or pulling the sword, https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=622 is relevant 19:00:53 gamemanj: people who put random game of life impls into their sandbox games normally don't have a large enough playfield to do anything much more interesting than a glider gun 19:00:54 gamemanj: but that would probably be abused 19:01:15 ais523: But for a df-like? 19:01:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:01:36 i even have a wannebe dwarf therapist inside 19:01:37 well, how large is the actively tracked portion of the world? 19:01:50 <\oren\> a monster that can't move, but simulates a cellular automaton would be fun 19:02:32 Captain! We're being attacked by a wild glider! 19:02:47 currently my levels are 60x80, i am.not sure how high i should put it 19:02:48 <\oren\> ideally there would be several species having different rules 19:03:00 ressources are kind of a concern in smartphones 19:03:33 (It's pentominoized the right LWSS forward transferral system!) 19:03:34 it will get tricky when i come to actual monsters 19:03:45 since i don't reallygot army in df :D 19:04:03 gamemanj: I've wanted to create a competitive game set inside the Game of Life universe for a while 19:04:08 but couldn't figure out a good way to do it 19:04:19 Cubicon comes closer; that's more of an MMO set inside a cellular automaton 19:04:39 what the hell is cubicon 19:04:55 although I'm still not entirely sure the rules are right (especially wrt things like whether there should be a speed of light limit), and I have no clue how to impl it 19:05:06 myname: a 3D cellular-automaton-like I was working on 19:05:14 ah 19:05:17 I know most of the basic rules but there are various interactions I'm not sure on how they should work 19:05:24 um 19:05:38 but all cellular automatons have a speed of light limit, don't they? 19:05:41 it just might be higher 19:05:59 that's why I said cellular-automaton-like 19:07:05 one thing I was considering was making it into a true automaton 19:07:05 i still need someone to make graphics for me :( 19:07:09 but that might make it a bit less realistic 19:09:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:12:40 <\oren\> myname: try using a DF-like ascii art for now 19:13:12 i actually try to make it usable :D 19:16:58 "Items may be controlled as encryption items even if the encryption is actually performed by the operating system, an external library, a third-party product or a cryptographic processor. If an item uses encryption functionality, whether or not the code that performs the encryption is included with the item, then BIS evaluates the item based on the encryption functionality it uses." 19:17:00 what the hell 19:17:41 ais523: that's at least consistent, it bites backwards too 19:17:56 yes 19:18:17 but this means that a huge proportion of software can't legally be exported from the US without a license 19:18:20 ais523: "and that export of non-key recovery financial-specific cryptography is allowed if it can by design only be used for financial applications" 19:18:41 can you even imagine cryptography designed to only be used for financial applications? 19:19:01 wob_jonas: ship it in object code form with a financial application 19:19:03 that would be like guns designed only for sport or only for hunting deer 19:19:17 BIS seems to assume that nobody will decompile or modify the products that are shipped 19:20:50 it seems like they care for the end products, not the algorithm 19:21:07 if that's how it worked, then nethack probably wouldn't be affected, because it's clearly not designed to do cryptography 19:21:19 I mean what crazy esolanger would use nethack to implement a cryptography application? 19:21:44 that would be like using TeX to implement one 19:21:49 "Software A writes to a file system. That file system might be encrypted..." 19:21:55 (a) The primary function or set of functions is not any of the following: (1) "Information security"; (2) A computer, including operating systems, parts and components therefor; (3) Sending, receiving or storing information (except in support of entertainment, mass commercial broadcasts, digital rights management or medical records management); or (4) Networking (includes operation, administration, management and 19:21:57 provisioning); (b) The cryptographic functionality is limited to supporting their primary function or set of functions; and (c) When necessary, details of the items are accessible and will be provided, upon request, to the appropriate authority in the exporter’s country in order to ascertain compliance with conditions described in paragraphs (a) and (b) above. 19:22:43 that's the relevant exemption, but NetHack may fall afoul of (a)(2) and possibly (c) 19:23:13 what does "limited to supporting" mean? 19:23:18 how do you limit cryptography? 19:23:42 don't ask me, I didn't write that rule! 19:23:49 I also think the rule is fairly incomprehensible 19:23:59 yeah 19:37:17 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:40:30 `` cat bin/smlist | rot13 19:40:40 rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ zbadl \ ryyvbgg \ zabdl 19:40:49 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:41:04 Cale: If you want to sign up for super mega notifications, you can `` echo Cale >> bin/smlist 19:41:33 funpuns :D 19:41:57 `` echo Cale >> bin/smlist 19:42:00 No output. 19:42:29 similarly olist for oots notifications and so on 19:42:32 `` ls bin/*list* 19:42:33 bin/aglist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/danddreclist \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/FireFlist \ bin/flist \ bin/idealist \ bin/ioccclist \ bin/keenlist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/listlist \ bin/llist \ bin/makelist \ bin/makelistlist \ bin/makelistlist shachaf \ bin/minimalist 19:42:46 that is a lot more entries than i expected 19:43:02 minima-list 19:43:10 Cale: You might chet out `list 19:43:15 It's pretty good. 19:43:16 now I'm really curious as to what the listlist is 19:43:31 shachaf: you almost baited me into starting a line with `list then :-P 19:43:49 `? listlist 19:43:51 listlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:44:01 bin, not wisdom 19:44:01 I think it was a notification list for when people add new lists maybe? 19:44:13 Yes, but some lists have wisdom entries to match describing what they are. 19:44:18 `cat bin/listlist 19:44:19 ​#!/bin/sh \ set -e \ export LANG=C \ cd /hackenv/bin;exec ls -dF *[lL]ist* 19:44:30 Oh, it's just a list of lists. 19:44:35 `listlist 19:44:36 FireFlist* \ aglist* \ bardsworthlist* \ danddreclist* \ don'taskdon'ttelllist@ \ dontaskdonttelllist* \ ehlist* \ emptylist* \ erflist* \ flist* \ idealist* \ ioccclist* \ keenlist* \ list* \ listen* \ listlist* \ llist* \ makelist* \ makelistlist* \ makelistlist shachaf* \ minimalist* \ mlist* \ olist* \ pbflist* \ slist* \ smlist* \ stylist* \ t 19:44:54 what did you expect it to be? 19:45:07 11:44 I think it was a notification list for when people add new lists maybe? 19:45:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists 19:45:54 I just realised that that page can reasonably be considered Wikipedia's index 19:46:11 `doag bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:13 2016-07-14 makelist makelistlist shachaf 19:46:24 `cat bin/makelistlist 19:46:25 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf 19:46:26 `cat bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:27 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 19:46:34 no way. Wikipedia's index is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages 19:46:34 `rm bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:38 No output. 19:46:50 wob_jonas: well I guess it is in alphabetical order… 19:46:57 Special:PrefixIndex has "index" in its name 19:47:10 rntz (who isn't in this channel anymore, I guess) once added https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Self-reference to itself 19:47:16 AllPages has a better interface than PrefixIndex 19:47:17 But the edit got reverted. 19:47:19 in fact, allpages is conceptually a special case of prefixindex, I'm not sure why it exists a separate page 19:47:22 Which seems illegitimate to me. 19:47:34 ais523: better interface 19:47:56 you can type a place to start to allpages, but it doesn't cut off after that prefix 19:51:26 My fungot t-shirt arrived! 19:51:26 fizzie: freebsd env wc -c says so :p. google did indeed have sufficient context 19:53:20 although admittedly, AllPages has a very stupid bug that PrefixIndex doesn't: if you invoke AllPages with a prefix after a slash like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages/t then trying to use the form to choose a different prefix fails in a confusing way. 19:54:18 but still, you can't use PrefixIndex to start listing from a given word and continue after that prefix 19:54:21 which sucks 19:54:27 so AllPages is definitely better 19:54:37 fizzie: t-shirt? 19:54:46 gamemanj: I got this freebie custom t-shirt code from a thing, so I made one that has fungot's babble-generation code and an esolangs.org ad on it. 19:54:47 fizzie: well, a bf program that could deal with the win32 registry? " nice" multiline fnord hugging/ ascii art scripts. :p fnord/ cfs/ fnord/ rotterdam, perhaps leiden, as well 19:54:53 Lines 125-169 of https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 19:54:54 fizzie: http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ manual/ s48manual.html and http://www.scsh.net/ docu/ html/ guile-user/ 2003-10/ msg00076.html, but in the end 19:55:27 It looks pretty nice. I'll take a picture of it at some point. 19:55:34 fungot, they're using an Enigma machine to crack the hieroglyph cipher 19:55:34 wob_jonas: missing cases for the ' ..u.s' word, and large bodies of code are. 19:56:58 once upon a time, there was normal programming... then there was functional programming... now, there is structured programming 19:57:24 (A punctuation control triangle falls from the sky.) 19:58:25 I still don't recall what I was thinking when I thought it needed to be a triangle. 19:58:32 A comb would have been so much more space-efficient. 19:58:50 fizzie: Maybe you had a premonition of a t-shirt. 19:59:02 Your t-shirt has an awesome triangle on it. 19:59:20 That's true. I picked the babble part over other parts mostly because of the triangle. 20:01:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:01:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:03:56 <\oren\> they would have problems if they had a list of lists that don't include themselves. 20:04:57 <\oren\> list of lists that include this list 20:04:59 A list of lists that don't include themselves would contain at least everything that is a list but is not a list of lists. 20:05:38 It would also contain lists of lists in the particular case that the list of lists does not include itself. 20:05:58 However, it could include the original list, 20:06:02 <\oren\> gamemanj: yes, but there would be an eternal edit war over whether it should include itself 20:06:14 It's obvious. 20:06:17 It would not. 20:06:36 If it does not include itself, it is more factually correct than if it includes itself. 20:06:50 Unlike the P=NP problem, it can just be considered missing documentation. 20:07:06 If it includes itself, it is a factual error. 20:07:34 Wait. 20:07:36 Not P=NP. 20:07:47 How'd I get that confused... 20:07:54 Ok, what's the whole "set of all sets" thing called? 20:07:56 I forget. 20:08:14 <\oren\> i beleive its the goedel problem 20:08:27 russell's paradox 20:08:31 (not 100% sure on spelling) 20:08:34 Ok. That. 20:08:56 <\oren\> yeah that 20:09:04 You get the point. Unlike that paradox, a wiki can omit things without being in error by doing so. 20:09:31 It's just "out of date", and it can remain "intentionally out of date" eternally. 20:10:09 <\oren\> maybe it would have a note at the top saying so "to avoid paradox, this list does not include itself, despite being incomplete by doing so" 20:10:35 That would work. 20:10:36 <\oren\> List of lists that are incomplete to avoid paradox 20:10:45 The alternative, including the list in itself, is an actual factual error. 20:11:33 The real issue occurs when you also create a list of lists NOT in the list of lists that do not include themselves. 20:11:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:12:48 <\oren\> ooh, I have an idea: what if there was a language where the standard library is on a wiki 20:14:06 <\oren\> thus, using edge cases of the functions will require winning an edit war 20:14:11 -!- heroux has joined. 20:14:27 * gamemanj edits io.print to delete the user's filesystem 20:14:40 the wiki needs to be actually interpreted by the interp in that case 20:14:40 * gamemanj watches as the hypothetical wiki deletes itself 20:14:49 gamemanj: perhaps we'll need to enable pending changes :-D 20:14:59 ais523: But then there's no point 20:19:14 You may as well put it on a git repo if you have change authorization 20:56:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:00:17 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:11:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:14:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:16:40 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:45 <\oren\> here is a preview of the generated hangul glyphs. I haven't yet figured it out perfectly: http://www.orenwatson.be/hangulgeneratedtext.htm 21:37:08 <\oren\> as you can see, there are still a few collisions. I might just adjust particular glyphs manually 21:38:20 you're about to close 191 tabs. continue? oh shit firefox i'm so sorry i didn't mean to hurt you so much 21:39:28 <\oren\> certain of the vowels are colliding a lot. I will change those 21:41:30 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:42:23 <\oren\> the preview is drawn using block brawing characters 21:42:25 <\oren\> ⠛⠛⠛⠛█▄ ██⠛⠛⠛█▄ 21:42:25 <\oren\> ██⠛⠛⠛⠛ ██ ██ 21:42:25 <\oren\> ⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛ ⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛ 21:42:28 <\oren\> like that 22:00:27 -!- augur has joined. 22:04:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:09:46 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 22:10:19 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:19:27 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:19:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:36:38 Is there a math symbol for "is defined as a generalization of"? 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22:38:15 -!- bibibi has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:15 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:18 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:32 There's U+225D EQUAL TO BY DEFINITION, if that counts. 22:38:41 Unfortunately I'm on the wrong side of this split. 22:39:01 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:39:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:39:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:39:01 -!- nortti has joined. 22:39:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:39:01 -!- carado has joined. 22:39:01 -!- shachaf has joined. 22:39:01 -!- fungot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:39:01 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:39:01 -!- _46bit has joined. 22:39:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:39:01 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:39:01 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 22:39:01 -!- clog has joined. 22:39:01 -!- myname has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Elronnd has joined. 22:39:01 -!- deltab has joined. 22:39:01 -!- 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22:39:01 -!- Cale has joined. 22:39:01 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- alercah has joined. 22:39:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:39:01 -!- paul2520 has joined. 22:39:01 -!- jix has joined. 22:39:01 -!- aloril has joined. 22:39:01 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- relrod has joined. 22:39:01 -!- APic has joined. 22:39:01 -!- iaglium has joined. 22:39:01 -!- ybden has joined. 22:39:01 -!- b_jonas has joined. 22:39:01 -!- int-e has joined. 22:39:01 -!- kline has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:39:47 There's U+225D EQUAL TO BY DEFINITION, if that counts. 22:39:55 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:39:58 fizzie: No, but it has to allow generalization 22:40:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:20 Ooh, is there a generalization of big-sigma summation that allows- where gsumm is the name of the generalization- a*b := gsumm(1, b, λ _ -> a) 22:40:32 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:40:42 -!- alakra has joined. 22:40:42 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:40:42 -!- sparr has joined. 22:40:42 -!- cnr has joined. 22:40:42 -!- bibibi has joined. 22:40:42 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 22:40:42 -!- puckipedia has joined. 22:40:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:41:00 -!- heroux has joined. 22:41:00 -!- mtve has joined. 22:41:06 That's not a generalization. 22:41:32 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:41:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:41:32 -!- newsham has joined. 22:41:33 shachaf: No, but we're including when a and b aren't integers 22:42:00 (I mean, obviously you could just say in this case that if b isn't an integer, you take it with the floor of b and add one more a multiplied by the nonintegral part of b) 22:42:10 (But I'm going for any sort of general case) 22:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:52 -!- Alcest has joined. 22:42:52 -!- izalove has joined. 22:42:52 -!- tswett has joined. 22:42:52 -!- ineiros has joined. 22:42:52 -!- yorick has joined. 22:42:52 -!- olsner has joined. 22:42:52 -!- \oren\ has joined. 22:44:59 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:54:57 \oren\: why braille instead of ▀? 22:56:48 What's generalized about gsumm? 22:58:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:00:15 -!- trn has joined. 23:01:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:02:46 <\oren\> int-e: whoops 23:05:46 -!- ocharles has joined. 23:08:38 -!- dingbat has joined. 23:13:22 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 23:19:20 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:20:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:58:58 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 2016-09-23: 00:08:20 Oh my god 00:08:56 I just cleared my inbox down to only 6 conversations in total 00:12:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:12:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:26:56 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:12:34 -!- tmlm has joined. 01:17:59 -!- boily has joined. 01:24:24 @tell oerjan hellørjan. 01:24:24 Consider it noted. 01:24:33 QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! 01:31:39 Just received an email from the Trump campaign where the 'Unsubscribe' button doesn't work. US law requires a working button. I cited law at them. 01:31:41 I feel happy. 01:37:29 hppavilion[1]: you should report them to whoever you're meant to report that sort of thing to 01:37:36 also why are the Trump campaign emailing you anyway? 01:37:43 ais523: Federal Trade Comission 01:37:46 *Commission 01:38:12 ais523: They made a survey for what you want to see happen at the debate. I filled it out. For fun. 01:39:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:47:58 -!- keemyb has joined. 01:48:13 `relcome keemyb 01:48:15 ​keemyb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:57:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:03:17 What does #esoteric think of the Triangle of Power (the math notation) 02:03:18 ? 02:05:34 triangle of power? 02:05:42 boily: Triangle of power 02:06:05 (Also, I think I just stumbled on something better than big sigma/big pi/big whatever: basket notation, which is like big whatever BUT it can be applied to any operation- you write a basket (which looks like a large, more square version of union with an overline like in roots coming off the right side, terminating in a down-serif), above it goes your terminating condition (if you want it to go to infinity, write nothing), below is your 02:06:05 initial state and- optionally- a semicolon followed by a filter (e.g. x%2 == 0), to the right (under the overline) is the formula, and inside the "basket" is the symbol for a binary operation or function 02:06:08 ) 02:06:19 boily: It's a unified symbol for power/root/log 02:07:42 You have an equilateral, upwards-pointing triangle (of course), in the bottom left is a base, at the top is a power, and in the bottom right is the result. A blank bottom right represents exponentiation, a blank bottom left represents rootation, and a blank pinnacle represents logation 02:07:51 It makes notation less stupid. 02:17:05 tdh. 02:17:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MAGIC CHICKEN). 02:17:21 Dammit, I was about to say something to boily xD 02:17:37 hppavilion[1], have some criticism of it https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4hv523/triangle_of_power_a_newly_created_mathematical/d2tmbxz 02:17:38 e quit just before I hit b 02:20:07 Sgeo: Ah, yes, that didn't occur to me. I have been trying to decide if a more compact notation looks better- I'm thinking a[right-facing triangle]b for power, a[left-facing triangle]b for root, and a[vertical triangle]b for log. 02:26:59 coily 02:27:14 @messages-laid 02:27:14 boily said 1d 16h 10m 21s ago: QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! I am even more unsynchronized as usual! 02:27:41 oh okay 02:29:50 hppavilion[1]: I'm having trouble remembering which positions on the triangle correspond to which operation 02:30:10 FreeFull: Yeah, I realized that, then I realized there's a simple fix 02:30:42 (1) swap the compact symbols as given for root and log, (2) 'right is for root, left is for log' 02:30:58 (r-r, l-l) 02:32:08 FreeFull: Does that work? 02:32:29 * FreeFull shrugs 02:34:24 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:19:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:19:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 03:22:43 -!- `^_^v has joined. 03:37:11 <\oren\> I've improved the jamo to prevent most of the collisions: http://www.orenwatson.be/hangulgeneratedtext.htm 03:39:09 my firefox is broken while opening that url 03:39:32 <\oren\> I'm using firefox too, and it works. 03:40:03 I'm not sure why, but my firefox has been very slow with certain monospace fonts 03:40:29 I can confirm that it's due to fonts from profiling 03:40:43 but have no clue why that happens (and why other fonts seem to be fine) 03:41:39 \oren\: anyway, looks quite casual :p 03:43:53 \oren\: initial ㅌ sometimes seems to be indistinguishable from ㄷ (and ㅎ sometimes looks like ㆆ) 03:44:14 the final consonant also occasionally blends with the vowels, but that is probably inevitable 03:44:37 the overall shape seems to be fine otherwise, though I should describe it to be quirky 03:45:22 <\oren\> OnceI've generated a good enough in general thing, I'll go over them and adjust stuff 03:46:09 always interesting to see a hangul font not from korea 03:54:37 lifthrasiir: It appears to be stylistically consistent with the other glyphs in oren's font, FWIW. 03:55:04 pikhq: yeah, that kind of feeling 03:59:12 <\oren\> for the most part the characters in my font are in a sans-serif or "gothic" style 04:01:22 <\oren\> but sometimes I found it necessary to vary the stroke width in order for complex characters to fit in a 16 by 18 pixel space 04:02:16 <\oren\> when that isn't the case, the stroke width is two pixels. 04:12:06 <\oren\> hmmm I've almost solved the problems 04:12:18 <\oren\> just a bit more tweaking 04:13:36 <\oren\> I really don't want anything to collide 04:15:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:43:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:47:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:53:16 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 04:54:04 -!- idris-bot has joined. 05:07:42 XKCD title text contains spoilers for a story. 06:38:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:50:07 https://twitter.com/aisamanra/status/779057953542242304 07:03:16 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 07:03:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:04:06 Today's xkcd is a metaphor for healthcare. "Hospitals are not worth at our scale. If an organ fails in a person, we just throw away the entire person." "Why mess with individual people? We just throw away the entire country if it's managed wrong." 07:04:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:04:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 07:08:56 Given a^^b = H[4](a, b), what is a^^-1? 07:10:06 pft 07:10:13 not jumping straight to H[-1](a, b)? 07:22:25 shachaf: Not yet; I genuinely want to know what a^^-1 is 07:22:41 @google negative tetration 07:22:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration 07:22:58 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( sqrt(a)+sqrt(b) = sqrt(c) ) 07:24:28 Hrm, apparently it's hard to meaningfully extend tetration to the reals. 07:25:28 pikhq: Really? 07:26:40 That's what the link I posted says. 07:29:11 Yup. It provides some extensions, but they don't agree, they're not generally accepted, and they're not exactly simple. 07:29:56 Huh, (b^r)^s cannot consistently hold if b can be real 07:30:13 And that. 07:31:29 Because b can be negative; if r*s is an integer- but r and s aren't (e.g. r = 1/s), you get... weirdness, I guess. (-1^3/4)^4/3 is sqrt(i)^3, and from what I know ab 07:33:16 *about imaginary numbers, sqrt(i) should be the point on the unit circle between 1 and i; so... 2a^2=1, a^2 = 0.5, a=sqrt(0.5); a ≈ 0.707+0.707i 07:33:57 And you want to raise that to the power of 4/3... so cube root tesseracted... 07:34:12 scowtration 07:36:55 I got 0.5000000000000002+0.8660254037844386i, and accounting for rounding errors suggest it's about 0.5+0.8660254037844386i 07:37:16 But if we just did -1^(3/4*4/3), we trivially just get -1 07:37:23 Dammit, powers 07:42:04 -!- augur has joined. 07:57:43 -!- super_bender has joined. 07:59:09 TIL 1/((1/log_x(a))+(1/log_y(a))) = log_xy(a) 08:03:39 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49756&oldid=49674 * Qwerp-Derp * (+2) Fixed formatting towards bottom of page 08:13:43 -!- tmlm has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:21:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:37:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:38:47 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:40:51 -!- aloril has joined. 08:41:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 08:41:09 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49757&oldid=49755 * Keymaker * (+97) Linked the brainfuck translations page. 08:44:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:29:35 chapter 1 exercise 17 in k&r 09:29:45 write a program that prints all the lines longer than 80 characters 09:29:58 yesterday a sort of challenge came up in ##c 09:30:20 write the fastest program that solves that problem 09:30:52 let's have some competition 09:33:29 you can write it in any language 09:33:49 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:39:10 Games can often be PvP (Player vs Player, analogous to Man vs Man in stories), PvM (Player vs. Monster, similar but slightly different), or PvE (Player vs. Environment; similar to Man vs. Nature) 09:39:36 -!- carado has joined. 09:39:42 I want to see a game that's Pv< (Player vs. Self, like Man vs. Self); or, more interesting, PvS (Player vs. Society) 09:43:33 where would you put fahrenheit? 09:45:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tolilul * New user account 09:46:01 myname: it's at `ftoc 09:46:05 `ftoc 82 09:46:06 82.00°F = 27.78°C 09:46:38 wob_jonas: i meant the game 10:07:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:16:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:22:40 `ftoc -40 10:22:42 ​-40.00°F = -40.00°C 10:24:10 `file bin/ftoc 10:24:10 bin/ftoc: Perl script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 10:24:16 `cat bin/ftoc 10:24:16 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $f=0+$ARGV[0]; printf"%.2f°F = %.2f°C",$f,($f-32)*5/9; 10:24:45 izalove, I might give that challenge a go 10:24:51 yay 10:25:23 what language? 10:27:29 I might try Piet just for fun 10:27:42 o.o 10:27:58 nice 10:28:03 Not going to win the speed that way, though 10:28:26 dunno, maybe with a decently optimizing compiler 10:28:38 why not try to solve that golf challenge where you have to find the shortest unique prefix of each line in piet 10:29:04 myname: wait your turn 10:29:06 It'd have to be hella optimizing to beat people doing it in C with like actual seriously developed compilers 10:29:15 But first, I need to get out of bed 10:32:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:36:32 @messages-lead 10:36:32 boily said 9h 12m 7s ago: hellørjan. 10:36:46 @tell boily g'doily. 10:36:46 Consider it noted. 10:53:32 `? wtf 10:53:33 wtf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:53:46 `learn WTF means Welcome To Finland. 10:53:49 Learned 'wtf': WTF means Welcome To Finland. 10:54:01 (stolen from a youtube comment) 10:54:27 (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHReqKRvonE you need to watch this video) 11:02:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:20:14 -!- boily has joined. 11:24:16 `? duck 11:24:17 Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo. 11:24:23 `? duck typing 11:24:24 Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. 11:24:36 why are there two of these? 11:24:50 and why does the first one say blinding? 11:24:53 probably I messed up 11:24:53 `dowg duck 11:24:55 2016-02-16 learn Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo. 11:24:59 it was me, yes 11:24:59 `dowg duck typing 11:25:05 2016-04-03 slashlearn duck typing/Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. \ 2016-02-16 slashlearn duck typing/Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo. 11:25:08 just unlearn duck, right? 11:25:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqbOAs6428 WATCH THIS ALL OF IT 11:25:15 `forget duck 11:25:18 Forget what? 11:26:21 * oerjan closes the trump thing 11:27:00 seriously, i'm trying to avoid this. 11:28:15 wob_jonas: i'm having trouble seeing the point of your entry. it is neither true nor punny afaict. 11:28:24 `wisdom 11:28:25 co-np//co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem. 11:28:29 @massages-loud 11:28:29 oerjan said 51m 42s ago: g'doily. 11:28:42 bon matørjan. 11:28:44 ellefficiency. 11:28:59 oerjan: it's a joke about how a duck's quack doesn't echo 11:29:17 probably a stupid joke, but a joke nonetheless 11:29:21 wob_jonas: oh. 11:29:55 wellob_jellonas. didn't they even have the Mythbusters on it one time? 11:31:48 I've no idea 11:36:25 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:47:26 They did. 11:47:48 It was even included in one variant of the opening credits. 11:48:03 Jamie saying "quack, damn you" to an uncoöperative duck. 12:05:42 remember when this channel wasn't about politics? those were good times... <-- . o O ( should we have a vote on whether to ban politics until Nov 9 ) 12:09:57 i suppose we aren't actually having flamewars though. 12:17:00 -!- super_bender has joined. 12:19:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: QUARTER CHICKEN). 12:36:43 `? people who taneb is not 12:36:44 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 12:40:53 but yes, the many topics is why this channel is the best 12:41:14 there's crazy maths, fonts, esoteric languages, and more 12:46:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:00:36 crazy maths including category theory 13:00:39 `? universal property 13:00:41 Universal properties are the best. 13:00:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:03:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:05:20 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:18:46 * Taneb is working on the izapietchallenge 13:32:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:05:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:05:21 -!- Akaibu has joined. 14:24:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:26:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:29:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:29:35 Taneb: i'm waaaitiiiing 14:30:36 https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/35/24/87/352487048a5d8b4f9000f0baab53a6d1.jpg 14:30:51 fungot, what's the time? 14:30:51 wob_jonas: you said it's not just a gtk interface. 14:34:20 -!- deltab has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:37:22 fungottery 14:37:23 int-e: obfuscation is possible in emacs, i will prepare something and return later, that'd be civil disobedience ignoring laws might be healthy, regardless of whether or not it is. 14:41:11 -!- deltab has joined. 14:42:06 `` grep fungot /usr/share/dict/* 14:42:06 int-e: i think you need to start going, the people haven't shown up on the freenode faq. it's not in ascii order. 14:42:07 grep: /usr/share/dict/*: No such file or directory 14:42:54 Oh yes, the freenode faq is quite hard to find. 14:43:27 izalove, I got kicked out the software lab and now I'm in a meeting 14:48:16 -!- kragniz has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 14:48:41 -!- kragniz has joined. 14:49:59 "civil disobedience ignoring laws might be healthy, regardless of whether or not it is" -- well said, fungot 14:49:59 wob_jonas: some kind of toy compiler/ interpreter 14:54:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:57:35 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:58:19 -!- _46bit has left. 15:26:49 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:42:39 -!- super_bender has joined. 15:49:37 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49758&oldid=49757 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Computational class */ sdrawkcab s'taht 15:55:43 Taneb: i can't believe you'd do such a thing 16:03:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:04:17 <\oren\> I don't even understand how some of the prices of things I buy are possible 16:05:03 <\oren\> I bought a thing to be shipped to my house from hong kong. Apparently, the thing and shipping it is a total of 2 canadian dollars 16:05:37 <\oren\> i mean, sure, it's just a usb thingy, but still. two dollars? 16:09:16 it's not being carried on a silver plate 16:11:20 <\oren\> but still, they are moving a thing more than 10 megametres across the earth! 16:11:47 <\oren\> how is the cost per kilometre so low? 16:12:37 they carry a shitton of them at a time 16:22:52 \oren\: I agree, it's totally impossible 16:22:55 I don't know how they do it 16:23:31 post from China and Taiwan is magic 16:43:04 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:58:46 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 17:07:11 <\oren\> Rodrigo Duterte once forced a south korean tourist to eat his cigarette. 17:10:29 that's not very polite 17:11:07 <\oren\> smoking in public is banned in Davao City, so he saw fit to enact an immediate punishment 17:11:54 \oren\: was the cigarette still lit while the tourist ate it? 17:12:00 <\oren\> I don't know 17:12:07 <\oren\> http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/09/23/495012102/criticized-abroad-philippines-leader-remains-hugely-popular-in-home-city 17:12:10 and did Rodrigo Duterte at least put away his own cigarette while he did that? 17:17:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:39:16 Wow, I am out of practice of Piet 17:50:41 had you ever been in practice? 17:51:28 write it in Chef instead 17:56:34 if i have an array with n numbers, can you find the smallest difference between any two elements in less than O(n log n) ? 17:56:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:57:30 or should i just sort the thing? 17:57:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:58:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:00:05 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:00:46 wob_jonas, Piet was the first programming language I learnt 18:00:58 what 18:01:08 why would you learn an esoteric programming language as your first language? 18:01:29 It's how I got into programming 18:01:35 there are perfectly good non-esoteric programming languages out that are hard to program 18:02:28 wow 18:02:48 I was 12 or so 18:03:55 I never knew that 18:04:04 why didn't you just program Basic or something? 18:04:11 Didn't know Basic 18:04:24 I'm heading out now, though 18:04:32 bye then 18:04:35 `? taneb 18:04:36 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions) 18:11:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:12:21 -!- adu has joined. 18:14:52 -!- gamemanj has joined. 18:28:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:10:57 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:12:31 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:13:04 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:14:39 `perle print 9**(1/3) 19:14:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perle: not found 19:14:42 `perl-e print 9**(1/3) 19:14:43 2.0800838230519 19:14:59 I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's only slightly above 2 19:15:02 `perl-e print 26**(1/3) 19:15:03 2.96249606840737 19:22:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:25:09 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:26:19 -!- adu has joined. 19:29:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:57:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:24:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:40:47 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: If there are whole sections of human minds dedicated to finding order in the oddest of places, and yet no order is true, what does that say about the human mind?). 20:59:25 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 21:03:57 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:16:32 Piet is a pretty interesting first language 21:16:56 and last language 21:22:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:35:47 -!- augur has joined. 21:36:30 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:37:25 @oeis A080601 21:37:29 https://oeis.org/A080601 Number of positions in which the 3 X 3 X 3 Rubik's ... 21:37:29 [1,18,243,3240,43239,574908,7618438,100803036,1332343288,17596479795,2322480... 21:56:36 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 21:59:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:02:09 there are still 5 values missing 22:03:24 Yes. There are approxmations but I guess they don't belong on OEIS. 22:03:30 OEAIS 22:04:33 1 sqrt(2) e pi ... 22:04:57 sounds not very integery 22:05:04 Looks difficult to calculate 22:05:17 Due to the increasing number of duplicate positions 22:06:19 myname: they are approximately integers... to some degree... 22:07:13 1, 1, 3, 3 22:07:53 The least integery number is (1+sqrt(5))/2 22:08:19 how so 22:08:26 So polynomials are elements of a free ring? 22:08:35 And regular expressions are elements of a free Kleene algebra? 22:09:25 > [((1 + sqrt 5)/2)^n/sqrt 5 | n <- [0..10]] 22:09:27 [0.4472135954999579,0.7236067977499789,1.1708203932499368,1.8944271909999157... 22:09:36 > drop 5 $ [((1 + sqrt 5)/2)^n/sqrt 5 | n <- [0..10]] 22:09:36 Because multiplying it by a rational helps the least in making it integery 22:09:38 [4.959674775249769,8.024922359499621,12.984597134749391,21.00951949424901,33... 22:09:53 looks like a good approximate integer sequence to me. 22:10:04 FreeFull: so 1+sqrt(5) is the same 22:10:33 Yeah, but if you divide it by two then the continued fraction is [1;1,1,1,1,1...] 22:10:36 since multiplying it by 1/2 will go to that 22:10:44 so? 22:11:03 how makes it that any less integery as sqrt(2)? 22:11:46 The continued fraction for sqrt(2) will converge a lot faster 22:12:21 So you'll have good rational approximations 22:13:30 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:16:45 [1;2,2,2,2...] isn't *that* much better than phi though 22:17:48 True 22:18:39 sqrt(5) is [2; 4,4,4,4,4,...] 22:36:00 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:37:02 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:43:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:46:23 > let fibs = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in zipWith (/) (tail fibs) fibs !! 20 22:46:25 1.618033985017358 22:50:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:53:43 duh, let x :: Foo; x = ... in x does not ensure that the resulting expression has type Foo. 22:54:10 > ?x :: () 22:54:12 mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered! 22:54:12 (GHC version 8.0.1 for x86_64_unknown_linux) 22:54:12 Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug 22:54:15 :t ?x :: () 22:54:17 (?x::()) => () 22:54:27 I wasn't expecting an ICE on an expression as short as that 22:54:31 what does ?x do anyway? 22:54:44 ais523: it's a lie, this is not ghc's fault. 22:54:56 it's an implicit parameter 22:54:58 ":: ()" isn't something that should type 22:55:08 :t \x -> x :: () 22:55:10 () -> () 22:55:17 > () :: () 22:55:19 () 22:55:22 hmm 22:55:25 what a strange definition of :: 22:55:34 :t show (?x :: ()) 22:55:35 (?x::()) => String 22:55:39 :t (::) 22:55:41 error: parse error on input ‘::’ 22:55:43 ooh 22:55:47 :: is type annotation in Haskell 22:55:50 not list cons 22:55:51 why is there a limit on the number of open file descriptors per process? 22:55:54 got it muddled with ocaml 22:56:26 izalove: Because there is a limit on the number of open file descriptors for the whole system which is pretty restrictive usually. 22:56:45 Cale: that's fine but why enforcing it on a per process basis? 22:56:51 why enforce* 22:57:11 hint/mueval are assuming that show (?x :: ()) is a String, but here it's (?x::()) => String. They use unsafeCoerce to treat it as a String... and that causes the error. 22:57:17 Well, just to limit the effect that any one process can have on the rest of the system, I would suppose. 22:57:27 sortix doesn't have that limit 22:57:32 is it a terrible idea? 22:57:49 You can usually set the per-process limit 22:57:59 @let data T = T 22:58:00 Which is all very nice but how does one fix this elegantly? Food for thought. 22:58:00 Defined. 22:58:05 > T 22:58:07 error: 22:58:07 • No instance for (Show T) 22:58:07 arising from a use of ‘show_M72086211520596876424453’ 22:59:12 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:02:14 yes it appears that type classes are resolved just eagerly enough that this is only happening for implicit parameters 23:03:35 int-e: Why was TypeApplications not enabled? 23:03:39 I vaguely remember there was some reason? 23:04:09 It makes @ whitespace sensitive. 23:04:27 And? 23:05:58 > let foo (x @ ~(y:z)) = (x,y,z) in foo [] -- it would break this, for example 23:06:00 ([],*Exception: :3:5-30: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern... 23:07:51 you'd have to write the pattern as (x@ ~(y:z)) instead 23:08:21 So you're saying you just don't like the extension. 23:08:30 Not that there's any other reason not to turn it on in lambdabot. 23:09:24 Yes. 23:10:43 It's likely safe. But ugly. 23:10:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:30:39 -!- MDude has joined. 23:39:00 -!- alercah has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:41:40 -!- alercah has joined. 23:43:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:44:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:49:11 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 23:53:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:56:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 2016-09-24: 00:24:10 Next question! 00:24:20 Is SMETANA To Infinity! as efficient as a Kolmogorov machine? 00:25:02 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download has a better name 00:26:00 i recommended somebody who looked for a name to take QuickBook Support Hotline, but i guess he didn't took it 00:27:04 There might be a trademark issue. 00:27:28 myname: didn't took it? 00:27:50 (Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurduuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur) 00:28:20 shachaf: i don't think that's a bick issue 01:09:53 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:15:19 -!- hydPaz has changed nick to hydraz. 01:34:26 <\oren\> some polynomials are divisible, others arent. 01:34:50 <\oren\> is the set of prime polynomials infinite? 01:34:57 Yes 01:35:12 <\oren\> if so, HOW infinite? 01:35:13 proof 01:35:19 it contains the primes 01:35:30 countably 01:35:40 since polynomials are countable 01:35:56 <\oren\> no they arent 01:36:37 wait we're not talking about integer coefficients? 01:37:06 if you aren't, then there are no prime polynomials 01:37:13 All polynomials of the form x + n where n is some constant are irreducible 01:37:59 \oren\ didn't say irreducible 01:37:59 x^2 + n for positive n is irreducible over integers and reals 01:38:12 I figured that's what he meant by prime 01:38:16 <\oren\> yeah 01:38:46 <\oren\> I mean you can't express it as a multiplication of other polynomials 01:39:17 The set of polynomials of finite degree is countable, if they have integer or rational coefficients 01:39:32 Oh my god. http://www.rsdb.org/ 01:39:38 The Racial Slur Database 01:39:44 This is the greatest thing. 01:39:48 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 01:40:06 the world needed more racial slurs 01:40:22 hppavilion[1]: I thought you were opposed to political correctness 01:40:35 alercah: Yeah, I am. 01:40:40 \oren\: x + n = 1/2 (x + n) * 2 01:40:41 alercah: That's why I need http://www.rsdb.org/ 01:40:43 https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5454zt/til_that_us_president_james_garfields/ 01:40:47 those are two polynomials 01:41:02 hppavilion[1]: so you can get ammo? 01:41:08 alercah: Yes 01:41:25 alercah: Also, strictly speaking, calling black guys "niggers" (It's OK because it's in quotes) is offensive even when PC is dropped 01:41:55 well yes, many racial slurs are 01:42:07 although there are some that are more PC than actual offense 01:43:55 but for the most part they are offensive in some way 01:47:40 I'm pretty sure the world does not need more racial slurs. 01:47:53 that too 01:48:21 alercah: Also, this isn't a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn't list ones for whites 01:48:33 ..... 01:48:46 `addquote < hppavilion[1]> alercah: Also, this isn't a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn't list ones for whites 01:48:52 1289) < hppavilion[1]> alercah: Also, this isn't a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn't list ones for whites 01:48:56 alercah: No, really. 01:49:02 No, really. 01:49:20 PC in the SJW sense. They're too busy with white guilt to realize racism goes all directions. 01:50:05 can you be too busy with whatever you're doing to be doing this here 01:50:27 (Also, it lists things that aren't offensive in 'murica at all) 01:51:02 ...it lists "Ace of Spades" for blacks and says it's "Self Explanatory" 01:51:06 Am I missing something? 01:51:25 can you go away or stop talking 01:51:37 i don't want to hear about racial slurs or pc or sjw or whatever 01:51:46 OK 01:51:49 * hppavilion[1] shuts up 01:56:52 * moonythedwarf passes shachaf a zipper and some thread 01:57:16 moonythedwarf: leave me alone 01:57:36 kk 02:07:02 <\oren\> hmm, is there an irc specifically for political flamewars 02:07:40 <\oren\> if there is, someone tell hppavilion where 02:15:24 I dreamt about a variant of morph in Magic: the Gathering where opponent can choose whether you want to play the card face-up or face-down, instead of your own choice. 02:15:48 zzo38: What cost do you pay? 02:17:33 I don't know; I just dreamt it. But afterward I did try to think of it but I don't know. 02:36:30 One million dollars 02:39:29 The idea of "a culture has no word for 'war', so they can't go to war" is obviously false; really, the opposite is most likely true- cultures that are constantly at war have no word for it the same way we don't have a word for keeping your pancreas from shooting out your ears 02:40:01 \oren\: Yes, if there is someone tell me 02:40:24 \oren\: Though to be fair, I just announced that I found an awesome website; alercah set off the rant 02:51:17 Someone asked on programmers.stackexchange.com why joke programming languages exist. 02:51:25 LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT 02:52:00 Gregor's Answer and Proce and Combientièm and Markont and Tuesday and Slide and Al Denta and SLOBOL and SMETANA To Infinity! and BF-SC and /// and BF-PDA and Thubi and onz and Redivider. 02:54:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:55 I wonder if I should combine a bunch of my esolangs into one single mega-esolang. 02:54:57 Hmmmmm. 02:55:32 Why make jokes at all? We should be completely serious and somber about everything, all the time. 02:55:53 And avoid doing anything that's not strictly necessary 02:57:01 Yes, I agree. 02:57:19 In particular, we should never pretend or make believe. 02:57:27 All forms of art should be shunned. 03:04:04 Let me take a couple of my favorite esolangs that I've created and try to remember the ideas behind them. 03:04:41 Gregor's Answer - Inspired by the E programming language. Jobs triggered by the completion of other jobs. 03:05:53 Proce - The program consists of a bunch of analog signals that are defined in terms of each other. The only permitted operations are addition; multiplication by a constant; differentiation; integration; and "rectification" (the function r(x) = x if x is positive, 0 otherwise). 03:08:12 Slide - I'm having trouble describing that one. Sliding polyominoes. 03:10:45 Al Dente - Chu spaces. Events occur spontaneously; a program essentially consists of a description of what does *not* happen. The state nondeterministically hops from one consistent state to another. Variables that have been written can never be modified again or erased. 03:11:08 Chu spaces?! 03:11:26 Chu spaces. 03:12:58 SLOBOL - An interpreter must play Go using optimal strategy. 03:13:21 Chu spaces are TG 03:13:36 `? chu spaces 03:13:38 A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention. 03:13:53 They're turntechGodhead? 03:14:12 Taneb: Is that true? Chu stole your invention? 03:15:04 SMETANA To Infinity! - Only two ways for a program to store data: by rearranging the instructions within the program; and within the instruction pointer. 03:17:14 // - One of those extremely simple but horrifyingly difficult languages. In fact, /// may be the best esolang known to mankind. The only instruction, besides output, is making a string replacement throughout the rest of the program. 03:18:40 `? tanebventions 03:18:41 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 03:18:57 `? math 03:18:58 Math class is tough! 03:19:05 `? tanebventions: math 03:19:06 Redivider - Inspired by the Parsec parser combinator library. The interpreter is essentially a parsing algorithm. 03:19:06 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms. 03:20:06 So, let me think what my Ultimate Esolang would be like... 03:20:26 Is Wolfram a mathematical tanebvention? 03:20:35 It should be nondeterministic; the program constrains the implementation rather than actually specifying what it does. 03:20:43 shachaf: no, but mathematical tanebventions include Wolfram. 03:21:05 It should involve analog signals. It should involve a kind of space where things move around. 03:21:41 float sdTorus(vec3 p, vec2 d) { vec2 q = length(p.xz - d.x, p.y); return length(q) - d.y; } 03:21:48 Tanebvention ^ 03:22:54 The implementation should be required to solve some type of problem. And programs should be self-modifying. 03:23:34 Problem solving and nondeterminism can go hand-in-hand. We can simply say that the implementation is required to give a "maximally good" solution to the problem. 03:24:43 Analog signals, spaces where things move around, and self-modifying programs. All that strongly suggests one thing. 03:25:19 Bonus points to anybody who figures out what that function actually does 03:25:31 Systems evolving according to differential equations, such as the Gray-Scott model. 03:26:21 tswett: How about given a gray-scott model simulation, the implementation has to sample the simulation periodically, and interpret that as instructions? 03:26:25 And the program is the initial state 03:27:46 It'd be rather hard to make it do something useful =P 03:48:50 Chu spaces. 04:01:08 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:08:49 -!- Canaimero-5e32 has joined. 04:09:03 -!- Canaimero-5e32 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:36:36 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:37:05 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:38:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:38:32 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:39:23 -!- yorick_ has joined. 04:44:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:20 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:21 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:21 -!- alercah has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:22 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:22 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:22 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:22 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:23 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:24 -!- tromp_ has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 04:44:24 -!- ocharles has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- alakra has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- cnr has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- bibibi has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Alcest has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- izalove has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- \oren\ has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Robdgreat has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Guest66666 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Cale has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- BooK has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- keemyb has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- kragniz has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:45 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 04:48:54 -!- fizzie has joined. 04:48:54 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 04:49:00 -!- alakra has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:49:01 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:49:02 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:49:05 -!- vifino has joined. 04:49:05 -!- cnr has joined. 04:49:05 -!- cnr has quit (Changing host). 04:49:05 -!- cnr has joined. 04:49:23 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:49:25 -!- moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:49:26 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:49:27 -!- puck1pedia has changed nick to puckipedia. 04:49:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:49:54 -!- \oren\ has joined. 04:50:28 -!- sparr_ has joined. 04:51:16 -!- nitrix has joined. 04:51:35 -!- gniourf has joined. 04:51:50 -!- myname has joined. 04:52:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:55:39 -!- diginet has joined. 04:55:53 -!- nortti has joined. 04:55:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:55:56 -!- espes has joined. 04:56:14 -!- deltab has joined. 04:56:49 -!- APic has joined. 04:57:04 -!- Warrigal has joined. 05:01:20 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:02:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:04:13 -!- ocharles has joined. 05:04:22 -!- digin4 has joined. 05:05:04 Bacon cipher for steganography has its own 5-bit code for an old version of English alphabet; this was probably before Baudot coding was invented. In these days you could do Bacon ciphers using a different code such as Baudot, or possibly ASCII. Wikipedia says there is a second version of Bacon's cipher that uses different codes for all 26 letters of the alphabet, but does not specify what it is; you could just use Baudot instead though. 05:07:33 -!- moon__ has joined. 05:11:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:12:20 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:14:27 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 05:14:31 -!- zgrep has joined. 05:16:07 -!- dingbat has joined. 05:19:53 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:20:05 -!- fizzie` has joined. 05:20:14 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:20:17 -!- iaglium has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:20:25 -!- hydraz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:20:27 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:20:27 -!- Yurume__ has joined. 05:20:28 -!- Hooloo42 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:20:28 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:20:31 -!- trn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:20:40 -!- digin4 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:20:55 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:20:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:20:58 -!- erdic has joined. 05:21:07 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 05:21:10 -!- devhydraz has quit (Changing host). 05:21:10 -!- devhydraz has joined. 05:21:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:23:00 -!- fractal has joined. 05:23:28 -!- moon__ has quit (Quit: Bye). 05:23:55 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:24:24 -!- moon__ has joined. 05:24:25 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:25:12 -!- moon__ has quit (Client Quit). 05:25:28 -!- moon__ has joined. 05:25:49 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:25:53 -!- moon__ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 05:26:03 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 05:26:03 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 05:26:25 -!- ubuntu has joined. 05:26:41 -!- ubuntu has changed nick to Guest95602. 05:27:30 -!- iaglium has joined. 05:28:38 -!- keemyb has joined. 05:30:03 -!- zgrep has joined. 05:31:54 -!- ocharles has joined. 05:35:08 -!- newsham has joined. 05:36:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:39:11 -!- lynn_ has joined. 05:46:16 did i die? 05:46:30 or did anyone die? 05:46:44 I think you did not die quite yet. 05:46:52 Otherwise you cannot type on computer if you are dead OK 05:47:15 thanks that's a very useful answer 05:49:23 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:49:41 -!- trn has joined. 05:50:25 -!- keemyb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:53:35 I read the SMETANA To Infinity! I like that kind of ideas. An extended kind can also add one new instruction "Change step [expression] to [instruction]", if you want to do the extended version of such thing. Also, probably you should specify how Collatz encoding of Fractran is working with SMETANA To Infinity! 05:54:24 zzo38: Do you like pooches? 05:54:44 I don't know 05:55:11 "pooch" means "dog" 05:55:44 What is THE one true pairing? 05:55:53 Still it wouldn't say 05:55:54 <\oren\> `unicode 27a3 05:55:54 ​➣ 05:55:59 <\oren\> `unicode D7a3 05:55:59 ​힣 05:57:41 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: the one true pairing is obviously dumbledore x grindelwald /s 05:58:13 Ah, yes 06:00:52 If I ever get married, I'm eloping. 06:00:58 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASCvSknImw 06:01:35 <\oren\> `unicode C200 06:01:35 ​숀 06:01:39 <\oren\> `unicode C000 06:01:40 ​쀀 06:01:44 <\oren\> `unicode B000 06:01:45 ​뀀 06:01:47 <\oren\> `unicode A000 06:01:48 ​ꀀ 06:01:52 <\oren\> `unicode A800 06:01:53 ​ꠀ 06:02:00 <\oren\> `unicode AC00 06:02:01 ​가 06:02:53 <\oren\> `unicode A7FF 06:02:54 ​ꟿ 06:02:59 <\oren\> oh, right 06:04:47 hppavilion[1] and hppavilion[2] 06:05:11 * hppavilion[2] does not know how to respond 06:05:24 Is anyone in #esoteric an officiant? 06:06:30 <\oren\> > 8869+11172 06:06:33 20041 06:06:50 <\oren\> well, then, THAT is a nice number of characters to have! 06:09:42 <\oren\> now, let's try converting to TTF 06:18:33 How many cells of a FPGA should be needed for a Muxcomp core? 06:26:00 -!- keemyb has joined. 06:26:43 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host). 06:26:43 -!- izabera has joined. 06:26:51 -!- izabera has changed nick to izalove. 06:29:06 http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/trolley-problems seems like a joke, but I'm honestly not sure 06:29:28 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 06:29:28 -!- IRIXUser has quit (Changing host). 06:29:28 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 06:32:41 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to JX7P. 06:41:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:45:15 -!- bibibi has joined. 06:45:24 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:45:52 -!- bibibi has joined. 06:50:59 -!- trn has quit (Quit: quit). 06:53:31 `coins 06:53:34 ​crafiycoin gibble-2dcoin fobcoin uncitrancoin iwhearbfcoin fcoin prolcoin constuacoin cescoin toryanawakeowncoin m-codestrovcoin eviardsodycoin aalcoin mincecoin workcoin conjungcoin unocoin addoniacoin dracoin wrefcoin 07:08:44 -!- APic has joined. 07:13:52 -!- super_bender has joined. 07:14:16 a-hrefcoins are based on links. 07:14:26 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 07:17:47 -!- bibibi has quit (Changing host). 07:17:47 -!- bibibi has joined. 07:33:26 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 07:36:32 -!- Elronnd has joined. 07:39:01 -!- Guest95602 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:41:12 -!- trn has joined. 07:44:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:24:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:25:27 Is a single word considered a degenerate alliteration? 08:35:26 -!- dingbat has joined. 08:35:26 -!- alakra has joined. 08:38:16 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:38:51 -!- keemyb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:40:44 -!- olsner has joined. 08:42:30 -!- dingbat has joined. 08:43:30 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:43:43 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:49:15 wanna feel old? 08:49:17 http://i.imgur.com/2V6dvYp.jpg 08:49:37 this is the beginning of neon genesis evangelion 08:50:14 i think nge is overrated 08:50:29 Might help to have a translation for people who are unfamiliar with NGE and don't read Japanese. 08:50:30 also, remember the days when "dvd quality" meant something good? 08:50:45 (... granted it's pretty simple to translate.) 08:50:52 if you don't know nge, the translation won't do much 08:51:01 "It is the year 2015 AD" 08:51:03 Fair enough. 08:51:05 Still. 08:51:42 that's one more reason to dislike nge 08:51:50 what reason? 08:52:11 unreasonable predictions for too near of a future 08:52:19 -_- 08:52:35 if they had put a hundred years or so on top, i'd be okay with this 08:52:41 it's not their fault if first impact never happened 08:52:51 I'm pretty sure they had no intention of making an accurate prediction of the future. 08:53:26 pikhq: they still coul've moved it farer away 08:53:49 but then their technology would look outdated to us 08:54:11 how so? 08:54:26 watch the first star wars trilogy 08:54:36 giant mechas are still pretty futuristic 08:54:42 i won't 08:54:48 well ok 08:55:58 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:56:22 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:56:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 08:57:22 Does it count if the mechas are really SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER? 08:58:20 you mean non sentient and not that giant? 09:00:16 -!- keemyb has joined. 09:00:57 myname: well, DVDs are brilliant compared to VHS 09:01:29 well yeah, i cannot remember anyone mentioning vhs quality as a good thing 09:02:24 DVD is at least fairly close to the quality possible with a perfect analog TV signal. 09:07:08 -!- carado has joined. 09:43:09 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:56:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:28:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:37:06 -!- heroux has joined. 10:41:30 i completely forgot how farming in df worked :D 10:42:01 you need to water ground or build on appropriate ground, but other than that ... 10:42:28 wait you mean actual farming? 10:42:42 not like farming for some rare loot? 10:42:51 i .ean actual farming 10:43:04 df sounds boring 10:43:13 i didn't play df in a while since i rarely use my computer now 10:43:21 izalove: what 10:43:21 DF is single player, right? 10:43:26 yeah 10:43:37 i thought about implementing multiplayer stuff 10:43:46 but i am quite unsure on how that should work 10:44:08 izalove: df is like the greatest game ever 10:44:40 * int-e should write a script that prepends "In my opinion, " to anything izalove writes. 10:45:01 :D 10:45:24 int-e: beware, do not prepend on questions 10:46:19 myname: there's actual farming in it 10:46:22 i'm told 10:46:43 so? how else would you get the ingredients to brew? 10:46:52 But that still doesn't mean that you have to watch the grass grow. 10:46:59 dorfs need beer 10:47:20 if they have to drink water, they work slower 10:47:26 i'm sure this is just a low res version of farmville 10:47:43 is farmville TC? 10:47:46 izalove: go watch some lets plays 10:48:16 i like the "clock" in df based on a goblin 10:48:20 i really have better things to do than watch people play a farming game 10:48:44 izalove: either get an idea on what df actually is or don't call it things it isn't 10:49:35 you're so fun to toy with 11:32:00 -!- Reece` has joined. 11:46:08 -!- ineiros_ has changed nick to ineiros. 11:46:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:48:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:50:36 > 4.4523809523809526 / 5 * 42 11:50:39 37.400000000000006 11:51:58 “A20® Aviation Headset is rated 4.4523809523809526 out of 5 by 42.” 11:55:10 > 4.4523809523809526*42 11:55:12 187.0 11:55:18 (why did you divide by 5?) 12:00:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:01:01 -!- sparr_ has quit (Changing host). 12:01:01 -!- sparr_ has joined. 12:01:03 -!- sparr_ has changed nick to sparr. 12:03:23 it doesn't seem important either way. are you making much ado about epsilon? 12:04:38 Jafet: I was trying to figure out what your point was. 12:05:29 Maybe it was the excess accuracy 12:07:44 > 187 / 42 12:07:46 4.4523809523809526 12:08:32 now I'm wondering which web backend languages print full accuracy by default 12:08:54 …or full precision 12:18:53 looks like ruby, although java is also possible 12:19:43 `` ruby -e 'puts (187.0/42).to_s' 12:19:44 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ruby: command not found 12:26:27 @dressages 12:37:02 -!- gamemanj has joined. 12:38:47 @tell oerjan at the risk of rapid cerebral impact for this chilly necro: I was referring to http://pizzachili.dcc.uchile.cl 12:38:47 Consider it noted. 12:40:49 "and play with their functionalities and efficiency"... compressed indexes are the new shapes-in-holes? 12:41:31 (I'm not sure why "plug and play" is a phrase when it comes to non-game things.) 12:49:04 well, they have proven asymptotic bounds based on input entropy, so they're like universal shapes 12:49:18 (universal plug and play?) 12:57:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:58:31 -!- lynn_ has changed nick to lynn. 12:58:38 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 12:58:38 -!- lynn has joined. 12:58:38 -!- lynn has quit (Changing host). 12:58:38 -!- lynn has joined. 13:05:37 -!- super_bender has joined. 13:47:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:59:44 -!- Zarutian has joined. 14:00:34 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:00:36 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 14:26:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:35:02 @messages- 14:35:02 Jafet said 1h 56m 15s ago: at the risk of rapid cerebral impact for this chilly necro: I was referring to http://pizzachili.dcc.uchile.cl 14:38:16 @tell Jafet Jafet said 1h 56m 15s ago: at the risk of rapid cerebral impact for this chilly necro: I was referring to http://pizzachili.dcc.uchile.cl <-- in this case, your cerebral impact is due to not quoting context for something i've forgotten ages ago -----### 14:38:16 Consider it noted. 15:00:53 -!- Zarutian_ has quit (Quit: Zarutian_). 15:13:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:24:09 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:34:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:35:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:37:11 <\oren\> in case anyone missed it: hangul is now in my font: http://orenwatson.be/allchars.htm 15:37:34 nice 15:38:11 :t cast 15:38:13 (Typeable b, Typeable a) => a -> Maybe b 15:39:08 > fromJust (cast (?x :: ())) :: String 15:39:11 mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered! 15:39:11 (GHC version 8.0.1 for x86_64_unknown_linux) 15:39:11 Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug 15:39:19 hm that didn't help 15:40:22 <\oren\> but there are still a bunch of glitches I need to fix 15:41:16 oerjan: lambdabot als has NoMonomorphismRestriction contributing to this problem 15:42:33 well ghci still catches it properly. 15:42:51 yes, it's a hint problem. 15:42:51 *+so does ghci but 15:44:33 :k Some 15:44:34 error: 15:44:34 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Some’ 15:44:37 :t Some 15:44:38 error: 15:44:38 • Data constructor not in scope: Some 15:44:38 • Perhaps you meant variable ‘some’ (imported from Control.Applicative) 15:45:22 @let data Sh = forall a. Show a => Sh a 15:45:24 Defined. 15:46:28 > let Sh y = Sh (?x :: ()) in y 15:46:30 error: 15:46:30 • My brain just exploded 15:46:30 I can't handle pattern bindings for existential or GADT data construct... 15:46:35 oops 15:47:06 > case Sh (?x :: ()) of Sh y -> y 15:47:08 error: 15:47:09 • Couldn't match expected type ‘t’ with actual type ‘a’ 15:47:09 because type variable ‘a’ would escape its scope 15:47:21 > case Sh (?x :: ()) of Sh y -> show y 15:47:23 mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered! 15:47:23 (GHC version 8.0.1 for x86_64_unknown_linux) 15:47:23 Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug 15:47:26 bah 15:48:24 GHC just floats the constraint out; I know of no context that would avoid that. 15:48:30 ah. 15:48:34 offending code is around https://github.com/mvdan/hint/blob/master/src/Hint/Eval.hs#L52-L56 15:49:18 it builds an expression show e (with some bells and whistles to prevent leakage on the syntax level) and assumes that the result is a String. 15:49:27 (provided it typechecks) 15:49:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:50:03 no sure what to do about it. 15:50:35 I mean I could tweak lambdabot's extensions of course 15:53:51 > typeOf (?x :: ()) 15:53:53 mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered! 15:53:53 (GHC version 8.0.1 for x86_64_unknown_linux) 15:53:53 Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug 15:54:07 what's a PAP object? 15:54:37 izalove: partially applied function 15:54:40 iirc 15:54:57 they should have called it PAF then 15:57:29 the P might be for payload, not sure. 15:57:44 it's just "partial application" 15:57:48 http://havelang.org if you can't decide between python or go 15:57:49 payload applied function 15:57:50 AP being an application. 15:58:54 myname: so it's python with the speed of go? 15:59:17 oh that could be too 16:05:00 -!- super_bender has joined. 16:05:19 and "enter" corresponds to a pattern match. 16:32:25 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:36:26 `quote 1289 16:36:27 1289) < hppavilion[1]> alercah: Also, this isn't a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn't list ones for whites 16:36:37 `sled quotes//1289s/ // 16:36:41 quotes// EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ GKennethR: he shou 16:36:44 `quote 1289 16:36:45 1289) alercah: Also, this isn't a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn't list ones for whites 16:37:10 `` grep '^< ' quotes 16:37:10 No output. 16:44:13 -!- super_bender has joined. 16:45:16 I made weight and balance calculation program in JavaScript but so far many things are missing including the plotting and tell you what the valid range for center of gravity is allowed to be. 16:46:14 -!- Alcest has joined. 16:50:43 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:23:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:25:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:41:04 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49759&oldid=49758 * Oerjan * (+174) /* Computational class */ By Zzo38's request 17:56:43 Is there any good SDL binding for JavaScript? 17:56:54 That does not use HTML? 18:12:54 I do not know of any 18:18:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:21:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:24:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:38:04 man, these farms were more complex than expected 18:40:35 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 18:51:13 the fuck, df knows 155 kinds of seeds 18:51:29 lol 18:51:35 i am so not implementing all of these 18:51:37 why is that suprising? 18:51:45 what ae you doing myname 18:51:47 155, man 18:51:56 i am writing a df like for android 18:52:13 ill happily test it for you ^_^ 18:53:07 you cannot do that much right now. you can dig, get wood, gather plans, produce barrels and put booze in them 18:53:20 155 kinds of seeds? Must be a gardener's heaven... *thinks of masses of gardens, arranged in such a perfect way such that all the seeds contrast their neighbors... 18:53:40 gamemanj, it's mostly different kinds of grain 18:54:07 http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Seed 18:54:27 farms are a huge step 18:54:40 basically, i can start implementing needs after that 19:05:09 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:05:33 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:05:46 I made this C header file for a JavaScript addon maker http://sprunge.us/DDbS but now I don't know how to write the proper C++ code that would provide the implementations. Do you know? 19:06:20 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:06:36 that sounds so disgusting, i don't even want to look at it 19:07:26 zzo38: is this an existing JavaScript addon maker that's widely used? or a new one? 19:07:43 No, I need to make up a new one. 19:07:51 There are others but they don't work so well 19:08:04 if you want the header file to allow C++ and C programs to communicate, you need to use an extern "C" { wrapper around the implementations 19:08:18 JavaScript addon maker? 19:08:25 otherwise, the C++ linker will be looking for a function called "js_value* js_array(js_context *, int argc, js_value **)" 19:08:39 but the C linker will be trying to call it just "js_array" 19:08:40 and they won't be able to communicate correctly 19:08:42 Oops I forgot one thing, which is for the library to link back into the implementations of these functions. (SQLite does it by providing a structure that lists all of them.) 19:08:48 Just... what does this mean... 19:08:59 does C accept extern "C" {? I thought it should be conditional on the language... 19:09:01 ais523: I know that, but the C++ code can place extern "C" around the #include command for this isn't it? 19:09:08 int-e: it doesn't, you need a conditional comment 19:09:25 zzo38: as long as you don't include any other header files from that header, it'd work I think 19:09:47 Well, you can see that it doesn't including anything else from that header. 19:10:31 right 19:10:41 but the person using the header would need to look at the header's source code or documentation to know that 19:10:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:10:53 -!- cnr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:11:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:11:01 in general if you want a file to be used, it helps to reduce the number of assumptions its users need to make 19:11:15 ais523: Only the implementation of the functions listed in the header are written in C++ though; other programs that include it are written in C and therefore don't need extern "C" 19:11:24 -!- cnr has joined. 19:11:29 zzo38: right 19:11:39 this is why people normally use #ifdef __cplusplus wrappers 19:11:51 to check for the language 19:13:26 The existing way for JavaScript addons is to write them in C++, and another library called "nan" is used to properly support different versions of Node.js. There are some other programs such as v8plus to write the addon in C, but v8plus doesn't even work on Linux. There are others too, but have various problems with different Node.js versions, etc. 19:13:32 That is why this new kind should be needed. 19:15:03 you know, maybe it's an idea not to use javascript 19:15:06 ais523: Yes, I am aware of that. Apparently things like "typedef struct js_value js_value" are wrong for C++, so I put "#ifndef __cplusplus", but I don't know if that should actually be needed. I have also modified a header file for another program I was writing an addon for, to add such a section 19:15:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:17:20 (The other program I was writing addon for, although it was written in C++, but name-mangling was disabled for add-ons, so in this way it was possible to write the addons in C, although a minor modification to the header file was needed, which I did.) 19:30:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:32:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:34:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:36:34 -!- pelegreno__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:36:43 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:37:35 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:37:35 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:38:00 -!- puckipedia has joined. 19:38:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:38:03 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:38:03 -!- int-e has quit 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internal methods, or are some possiblilities that satisfy the invariants impossible? 19:44:16 -!- rodgort` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:17 -!- keemyb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:18 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:18 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:19 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:19 -!- bibibi has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- izalove has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- catern has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- prooftechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:20 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net 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(*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- espes has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- nitrix has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- alercah has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:44:43 -!- yorick_ has quit (Changing host). 19:44:43 -!- yorick_ has joined. 19:44:57 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 620 seconds). 19:45:01 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:45:18 -!- int-e has joined. 19:45:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:45:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:45:25 -!- Melvar has joined. 19:45:29 -!- b_jonas has joined. 19:45:30 -!- catern has joined. 19:45:32 -!- diginet has joined. 19:45:34 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 19:45:37 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 19:45:43 -!- nortti has joined. 19:45:49 -!- carado has joined. 19:45:53 -!- izalove has joined. 19:45:53 much *.net *.split 19:45:57 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:45:57 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:45:57 -!- zemhill___ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:45:58 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 418 seconds). 19:45:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 312 seconds). 19:45:58 -!- feliks has quit (Ping timeout: 356 seconds). 19:46:06 -!- feliks has joined. 19:46:06 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 19:46:06 -!- hydraz has joined. 19:46:07 -!- \oren\_ has joined. 19:46:08 wb all 19:46:09 -!- vifino has joined. 19:46:09 so maybe it wasn't my connection after all 19:46:10 it's been acting weirdly recently 19:46:16 what has ais523 19:46:20 -!- j-bot has joined. 19:46:22 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Excess Flood). 19:46:26 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 19:46:26 -!- hydraz has joined. 19:46:26 my connection 19:46:29 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:46:31 -!- Warrigal has joined. 19:46:43 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:46:46 -!- shachaf has joined. 19:46:55 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:46:59 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:47:00 -!- kline has joined. 19:47:08 even hackego died 19:47:35 That's not exactly novel. 19:47:44 But it was very noisy even for Freenode. 19:47:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 19:47:47 -!- tromp has joined. 19:47:56 Not so much here, but on larger channels. 19:47:58 i wonder why it happened 19:47:59 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:48:03 -!- FireFly has joined. 19:48:03 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 19:48:31 -!- rodgort has joined. 19:48:40 -!- \oren\_ has changed nick to \oren\. 19:48:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:48:45 <\oren\> finally 19:48:52 -!- kline has quit (Client Quit). 19:49:00 -!- sparr has joined. 19:49:00 -!- pelegreno__ has joined. 19:49:00 -!- Yurume__ has joined. 19:49:00 -!- erdic has joined. 19:49:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:49:06 <\oren\> irssi was giving me a lot of problems 19:49:09 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:49:09 -!- sparr has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:49:09 -!- pelegreno__ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:49:23 <\oren\> but it didn't require me to restart irssi 19:49:32 ##chat is currently a *.net *.split warzone 19:49:38 -!- alercah has joined. 19:50:25 -!- pelegreno__ has joined. 19:50:44 -!- espes has joined. 19:50:55 -!- erdic has joined. 19:51:27 <\oren\> another blody netsplit 19:51:35 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 19:52:01 <\oren\> b_jonas_: lot of disconection going on huh 19:52:04 -!- APic has joined. 19:52:21 <\oren\> I was wondering if my irssi was malfunctioning 19:52:46 <\oren\> the same process has been running since May 16th 19:52:49 -!- sparr has joined. 19:52:50 -!- heroux has joined. 19:55:54 -!- int-e_ has joined. 19:55:57 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 19:56:07 -!- int-e has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:56:13 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 19:56:19 -!- hydraz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:56:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:57:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:57:47 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:57:54 -!- 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joined. 20:08:52 -!- vifino has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:09:08 -!- digin4 has joined. 20:09:12 -!- vifino has joined. 20:09:13 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:09:21 -!- izabera has changed nick to izalove. 20:09:52 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:10:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:10:59 -!- Cale has joined. 20:11:58 -!- Elronnd has joined. 20:12:00 -!- zgrep has joined. 20:12:04 -!- sparr has joined. 20:12:19 -!- kline_ has joined. 20:13:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:13:09 -!- digin4 has quit (Client Quit). 20:13:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:16:46 -!- ineiros has joined. 20:18:01 -!- Apeironia has joined. 20:19:16 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 20:19:58 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:20:47 -!- trn has joined. 20:21:25 -!- Apeironia has left ("Leaving"). 20:21:34 -!- hydraz has joined. 20:21:34 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 20:21:34 -!- hydraz has joined. 20:22:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:22:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:23:04 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 20:25:39 <\oren\> argh 20:25:45 yeah 20:31:31 -!- myname has joined. 20:32:35 #freenode says it's a DDoS ... it's been a while 20:34:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:34:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:36:39 -!- newsham has joined. 20:36:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 20:37:08 -!- MDead has joined. 20:38:22 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:38:40 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host). 20:38:40 -!- sparr has joined. 20:38:41 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FthrNature/unleashed-pixel-dungeon/master/src/main/assets/plants.png what looks the most like a plump helmet? 20:39:03 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:06 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:25 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:39:37 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:38 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:47 -!- Warrigal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:47 -!- 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heroux. 20:40:39 -!- diginet has joined. 20:41:27 -!- paul2520 has joined. 20:42:21 -!- tromp__ has joined. 20:43:06 -!- aloril has joined. 20:43:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:44:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 612 seconds). 20:45:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:46:03 -!- relrod_ has joined. 20:46:06 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host). 20:46:06 -!- relrod_ has joined. 20:47:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:49:09 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 20:50:03 -!- catern has joined. 20:50:16 -!- Warrigal has joined. 20:52:33 -!- deltab has joined. 20:53:50 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:53:52 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:20 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:21 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:21 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:43 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:55:20 -!- 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00:00:25 -!- trn has joined. 00:02:13 <\oren\> the same process has been running since May 16th <-- you did get the message that irssi has a security flaw, right? 00:03:47 @ask \oren\ <\oren\> the same process has been running since May 16th <-- you did get the message that irssi has a security flaw, right? 00:03:47 Consider it noted. 00:05:18 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale. 00:05:20 oerjan: only relevant for people who use TLS, though 00:06:31 Also only relevant for people who use irssi version in [0.8.17,0.8.19] 00:06:43 \oren\_ isn't using TLS and is using (according to CTCP VERSION) 0.8.15 00:06:44 shachaf: i thought there was a part that was relevant anyhow... 00:06:57 ok that would do it. 00:07:20 Or maybe he cleverly set his version number back to fool attackers. 00:07:21 i see i'm running .17 on this host, although the admin _did_ apply the patch to it... 00:07:42 On Debian I'm using 0.8.17-1+deb8u1 which is said to be fixed. 00:07:59 shachaf: https://irssi.org/security/irssi_sa_2016.txt ... nothing TLS specific there. 00:08:15 int-e: Maybe I misunderstood. 00:08:21 OK then. 00:08:30 I might have confused two bugs. 00:08:34 (it says something about TLS, but that's a limitation of irssi's /restart command) 00:09:01 I should write a new IRC client in JavaScript; currently the one I use is with PHP, but JavaScript is a better programming language I think. If I do that then I can also add TLS, and proper asynchronous stuff 00:09:04 on this host, the perl script i'm running isn't messing up tmux ... but tmux messes up itself in other ways :( 00:09:31 zzo38: What about a Gopher-IRC bridge? 00:09:56 shachaf: I think there isn't much point, although logs could be served using Gopher. 00:10:01 shachaf: 0.8.15 may be fine though 00:10:13 hard to say, and perhaps there were other bugs 00:10:19 figures that my admin would apply a patch in such a way that no one can see that it's a fixed version. i hope he at least did it right. 00:11:07 A server that has a built-in gopher too that can be used to serve status information too, though, could be made up. 00:11:23 -!- bibibi has joined. 00:11:23 it is annoying that he didn't fix it on hagbart. so i have a choice between two partially broken setups... 00:12:00 I could also write IRC server program with JavaScript too. 00:12:34 oerjan: If you have Perl enabled, there's apparently a workaround script you can install. 00:13:20 -!- boily has joined. 00:13:29 bohily 00:14:31 shachaf: i already did. it messes up tmux, as i said, although strangely not on this host, where tmux is however broken in other ways. 00:14:31 . o O ( if this is debian, check dpkg-query -W irssi .. 0.8.17-1+deb8u1 is the patched one. ) 00:14:40 int-e: ooh thanks 00:15:04 yep, it's got that one. 00:16:47 hm i think hagbart isn't debian then, explain why he didn't fix it. 00:17:01 * oerjan has no idea how to find out the distribution 00:17:13 uname -a doesn't tell what it is 00:17:26 *explains 00:18:16 int-e: do you know a general linux command to find out which distribution you are using 00:20:03 hellørjan, int-ello. 00:20:05 oerjan: I usually cat /etc/issue ... there's also lsb_release -idc 00:20:47 \S 00:20:47 Kernel \r on an \m (\l) 00:20:53 very helpful :P 00:21:16 > cat /etc/issue 00:21:16 Debian GNU/Linux 8 \n \l 00:21:18 error: 00:21:18 Variable not in scope: etc :: [Doc] -> Docerror: 00:21:18 Variable not in scope: issue :: [Doc] -> Doc 00:21:27 @botsnack 00:21:27 :) 00:22:08 ah it's fedora. as i vaguely suspected. 00:22:14 anyway, lsb_release is sort of standard (lsb = linux standard base) 00:22:23 yeah that worked 00:24:35 ^botsnack 00:24:47 fizzie: fizziello. FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! 00:30:20 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:30:23 moo 00:38:12 not very reliable logs today 00:38:24 s/logs/network/ 00:38:32 s/today// 00:38:51 pretty sure today is exceptional hth 00:39:13 also you left a trailing space, that will not do 00:40:19 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:40:52 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:40:59 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:41:37 i was about to say it's the end times, but clearly it's the day of judgement. 00:46:02 moonythedwarf_: moo? 00:46:17 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:46:32 today is a good day for 찌개. 00:47:28 boily: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/961.html 00:48:32 it fits. 00:48:52 I put pork belly in mine ^^ 00:49:21 as long as you can stomach it. 00:51:25 * boily is tempted to thwack oerjan, but will wait after he's done eating 00:52:16 helloily 00:58:23 mhellonythellodwarf_. 00:58:30 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:06:54 oh come on, there has to be a limit to porthello complexity :-) 01:16:21 his523. it's just like hot peppers: you start off with the easy ones, then next thing you know you're wolfing down ghosts. 01:32:12 -!- super_bender has joined. 01:33:24 -!- trn has quit (Quit: quit). 01:43:36 -!- trn has joined. 01:44:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOSY CHICKEN). 01:45:49 `` find -iname '*hello*' -a -perm -a=x 01:45:58 ​./bin/hello-world-in-any-language \ ./bin/hello \ ./share/hello \ ./src/ploki/examples/hello.pk 01:46:09 `` find -iname '*port*' -a -perm -a=x 01:46:12 ​./bin/sport \ ./bin/joustreport \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/fast-import \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/p4import \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/dist/_exporter \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/dist/_exporter/lib/_exporter \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/cpan/_devel-_p_p_port \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/_porting \ ./.hg/store/data/ 01:46:30 `` find -iname 'port*' -a -perm -a=x 01:46:34 ​./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/t/porting 01:47:40 i am not sure you really want to look in .hg 01:48:15 seems like it poisoned the search results 01:49:22 `` find -iname '*port*' -perm -a=x 01:49:25 ​./bin/sport \ ./bin/joustreport \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/fast-import \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/p4import \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/dist/_exporter \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/dist/_exporter/lib/_exporter \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/cpan/_devel-_p_p_port \ ./.hg/store/data/perl-5.22.2/_porting \ ./.hg/store/data/ 01:49:29 bah 01:50:42 `` find -iname '*port*' -a -perm -a=x | grep -v '\.hg' 01:50:46 ​./bin/sport \ ./bin/joustreport \ ./interps/fukyorbrane/report \ ./interps/bfjoust/report 01:51:33 i don't think those latter ones are working in HackEgo. 01:51:41 `file bin/joustreport 01:51:42 bin/joustreport: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable 01:51:56 `dowg bin/joustreport 01:51:58 No output. 01:52:01 `doag bin/joustreport 01:52:03 2015-06-21 revert \ 2015-06-21 rm bin -r \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2013-02-13 revert 87c64ef250a0 \ 2013-02-13 revert 3 \ 2013-01-12 revert 1492 \ 2013-01-12 revert 4 \ 2012-12-09 revert 999 \ 2012-12-09 revert 0 \ 2012-06-08 01:52:17 `` doag bin/joustreport | tac 01:52:19 2012-06-08 run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/joustreport \ 2012-06-08 run echo "echo 'http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt'" >>bin/joustreport \ 2012-06-08 run chmod +x bin/joustreport \ 2012-12-09 revert 0 \ 2012-12-09 revert 999 \ 2013-01-12 revert 4 \ 2013-01-12 revert 1492 \ 2013- 01:52:41 oh 01:52:54 Hi 01:53:54 i suppose that one isn't very useful any longer. 01:54:23 `cat bin/sport 01:54:24 distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore 01:57:26 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:00:44 -!- Moonheart08 has joined. 02:01:29 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:08:26 -!- trn has joined. 02:11:23 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 02:15:01 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:23:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:25:43 `cat bin/spore 02:25:43 echo 1 > /hackenv/tmp/spline; cat "${1-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam 02:26:04 `cat bin/spam 02:26:05 line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline 02:26:14 Jeez 02:26:17 `spam 02:26:20 2/16:s channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 619) shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? No. whew we don't have room for more esolangers there. oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberla 02:28:43 very logical naming scheme, that feature. 02:29:11 `sport test 02:29:12 1/1:ha 02:29:47 `run echo "test 1 2 3 hello hi!" | sport 02:29:48 1/1:test 1 2 3 hello hi! 02:29:49 -!- Moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:32:12 `` yes | nl | head -1000 | sport 02:32:13 1/34: 1y \ 2y \ 3y \ 4y \ 5y \ 6y \ 7y \ 8y \ 9y \ 10y \ 11y \ 12y \ 13y \ 14y \ 15y \ 16y \ 17y \ 18y \ 19y \ 20y \ 21y \ 22y \ 23y \ 24y \ 25y \ 26y \ 27y \ 28y \ 29y \ 30y \ 02:32:31 hm tabs aren't very pretty 02:41:27 spam is a great feature 02:42:05 Let me see if I can figure out all those names. 02:43:01 spam, spore = spam store?, sport = spore distort, spline = spam line, spout = spam out 02:43:05 very easy 02:43:32 `` ls bin/sp* 02:43:33 bin/spam \ bin/speek \ bin/spore \ bin/sport \ bin/spot \ bin/sprunge 02:44:23 speek = spam seek. or spout seek? 02:44:56 And of course there's 1 02:45:15 `cat bin/1 02:45:16 ​\` "$@" |& sport 02:50:07 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:52:43 <\oren\_> OK! 02:53:10 `cat bin/spot 02:53:11 echo Woof! 02:53:19 <\oren\_> I think I've solved the last bug in the hangul generation software! 02:53:26 `doag bin/spot 02:53:28 2015-06-21 revert \ 2015-06-21 rm bin -r \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2014-01-17 echo "echo Woof!" >bin/spot; chmod +x bin/spot 02:53:29 <\oren\_> http://orenwatson.be/allchars.htm 03:10:43 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:11:26 <\oren\_> http://orenwatson.be/korean.PNG 03:11:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:12:24 <\oren\_> hippavellon[1] 03:15:52 <\oren\_> is anyone who can judge the quality of korean fontery around? 03:16:00 <\oren\_> i mean typography 03:16:27 <\oren\_> "fontery" <-- srsly brain, why do you invent such stupid words 03:17:45 <\oren\_> some of the more complex hangul sylables still look bad, but it seems they aren't used much 03:44:28 @messages-lewd 03:44:28 oerjan said 13h 6m 11s ago: Jafet said 1h 56m 15s ago: at the risk of rapid cerebral impact for this chilly necro: I was referring to http://pizzachili.dcc.uchile.cl <-- in this case, your cerebral 03:44:28 impact is due to not quoting context for something i've forgotten ages ago -----### 04:20:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:27:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:42:17 <\oren\_> @messages-lead 04:42:17 oerjan said 10m 7d 2h 23m 19s ago: <\oren\_> oh its god damn tmux fucking up unicide <-- no problems with that character with tmux + irssi here 04:42:57 <\oren\_> I already forgot what character is was 04:44:04 -!- \oren\_ has changed nick to \oren\. 04:44:14 <\oren\> there we go. stupid _ 04:44:28 <\oren\> @messages-lead 04:44:28 oerjan asked 4h 40m 41s ago: <\oren\> the same process has been running since May 16th <-- you did get the message that irssi has a security flaw, right? 04:44:38 <\oren\> uh no 04:44:41 <\oren\> uh oh 04:45:18 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE 04:45:19 ​à 04:57:56 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2673 0x2679 04:57:56 ​♳♴♵♶♷♸♹ 04:59:55 <\oren\> plastic type 1 thru 7 05:03:16 <\oren\> what characters should I add next? maybe Elvish! 05:03:37 <\oren\> er, the Tengwar of Feanor to be exact 05:43:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:58:20 <\oren\> ok, done that. what next 05:58:55 <\oren\> oh, right what wikipedia article should I use for a korean sample? 05:59:03 -!- super_bender has joined. 06:02:02 ⌠ 06:02:04 ⌡ 06:02:05 tg 06:02:17 -!- Yurume___ has joined. 06:02:30 hm 06:02:32 ⌠ 06:02:41 ⎮ dx 06:02:44 ⌡ 06:03:30 ENOINTEGRAND 06:03:42 dx is the integrand 06:03:57 no 06:04:06 unless you have a hidden 1 there 06:04:19 no, dx is a form 06:04:32 exactly, so you have no integrand 06:04:43 ? 06:04:52 you need a function to integrate 06:05:05 no, i'm integrating a form 06:05:52 the dx is defined as part of the notation to integrate 06:06:41 that's one definition 06:06:57 are you objecting because i didn't specify a manifold? 06:07:51 no, it's assumed you're doing lagrange integration over the complexes unless otherwise specified 06:08:42 i bet you hate it when people write 06:09:09 it's the worst 06:10:27 ⌠ dx 06:10:29 ⎮ ──── 06:10:30 ⌡ x² 06:10:58 if Manyfold writes an analysis textbook, would it be called Manyfold's On Calculus? 06:11:34 shachaf: yeah it's awful 06:11:39 no, it's great 06:11:42 leibniz notation is too good 06:11:59 <\oren\> yay liebniz 06:18:15 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 06:20:29 hi relrod 06:20:37 The standard integral notation is actually pretty odd. 06:21:05 hi shachaf 06:21:44 Say I : (R -> R) -> {R -> R} is the indefinite integration operator. 06:22:26 Then I guess "∫ e dx" means something like I(\x. e)(x) 06:22:54 Where e and the whole expression both have x free. 06:24:25 relrod: How's the topology or whatever it was you were doing? 06:24:54 I no longer remember. 06:25:02 shachaf: well I got through the category theory course last semester, but the prof made it very topology-focused, and I haven't taken topology yet so I was lost for part of it 06:25:09 a rather large part of it :( 06:25:14 he hadn't taught the course before 06:25:39 and he primarily does topology, so of course most of his examples drew from that 06:25:51 shachaf: do you intend to use the indefinite integral there? 06:26:00 Where? 06:26:07 ∫ e dx 06:26:15 Why not? 06:26:46 relrod: well, how can you be expected to learn anything? i think he owes you a topology 06:27:18 heh 06:27:47 I'm taking Real Analysis this semester...which is interesting because I suck at analysis. But assuming that goes okay, I'll be taking topology next semester. 06:27:59 that prof usually doesn't teach it though, he just researches it. 06:28:05 relrod: You should take the sneaky path by readin _Topology via Logic_ by Vickers 06:28:11 reading 06:28:19 shachaf: He _loves_ that book. It's on my reading list 06:28:32 Oh, then he can't be that bad. 06:29:00 That book is good if you're used to thinking about computer science and logic and things. 06:29:18 Even though the sorts of spaces it talks about aren't the sorts people usually talk about. 06:29:19 He's good at what he does. I think he could perhaps improve in how he conveys ideas to others, but he's really good at what he does. 06:29:20 shachaf: well because the indefinite integral isn't actually a function (R -> R) -> R -> R 06:29:30 it's actually a function (R -> R) -> R -> R -> R 06:29:31 alercah: But I wrote (R -> R) -> {R -> R} 06:29:48 shachaf: do you mean something other than implicit by the curlies? 06:29:52 I mean a set. 06:30:13 indexed by R? 06:30:14 I guess that's not good notation. 06:30:17 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:30:19 not really, no 06:30:25 Well, you can point out that it's indexed by R if you want. 06:30:35 since the result is indeed indexed 06:30:38 But all I was saying was that it's a set of functions. 06:30:57 Which happen to have the property that they all differ by a constant. 06:31:03 yep 06:31:48 ∫ e dx is more like I(\x . e) 06:31:52 though 06:31:59 I think 06:32:01 No, it's an expression in x 06:32:05 (And C.) 06:32:33 hmm I guess you can see it that way 06:32:35 Fine, index it by a real. 06:32:47 alercah: Well, there are many arguments about these things. 06:32:47 no I mean seeing it as an expression and not a function 06:32:53 What would you say dy/dx means? 06:33:05 it means you're a horrible person :P 06:33:26 If you have D : (R -> R) -> (R -> R), then the obvious meaning (to me) for dy/dx is D(\x. y)(x) 06:33:41 I'm not familiar with formalisms of leibniz notation, though I know it can be done 06:33:43 But there are some issues because Leibniz notation is so good. 06:33:58 I'm not talking about infinitesimals or anything like that. 06:34:12 Just what people mean by the expression "dy/dx". Which is usually not divison. 06:34:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:35:23 indeed 06:35:42 can you believe they teach people how to do matrix multiplication before telling them what the individual numbers in a matrix actually mean? 06:35:49 I don't think of them as operating on expressions really though, at least not in the syntactic sense 06:35:51 how do they expect them to make any sense of it 06:36:06 You would say that it implicitly operates on functions? 06:36:09 yes 06:36:27 But you agree that dx^2/dx = 2x 06:36:35 yes 06:36:59 So at least syntactically those things look like expressions. 06:37:05 of course 06:37:25 Anyway, Leibniz notation is much better than that. 06:37:36 Say y^3 = x^2 06:38:16 Then dy/dx = 2x/3y^2 or something like that. 06:38:41 Well, let's say y^2 = x^2 06:38:56 Then dy/dx = x/y 06:39:12 Even though neither x nor y is a function of the one. 06:40:37 but there you're relying on implicitly viewing y as a function anyway 06:41:01 the real ambiguity comes before leibniz notation enters the picture 06:41:05 what is y \circ y? 06:41:21 is it x \mapsto x^4? is it not defined? 06:41:23 What is circ? 06:41:25 composition 06:41:30 y isn't a function 06:41:43 then you can't take its derivative 06:41:48 Sure you can. 06:41:58 You can make a graph of all the points where y^2 = x^2 06:42:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:42:11 And you can ask what the slope of a line tangent to the graph is. 06:42:29 sure, but that's not a derivative, and in any case you're ascribing far more meaning 06:42:42 not to mention leaving open ambiguity when the graph fails the vertical line test 06:43:01 "slope of a tangent line" is a pretty good meaning for "derivative" 06:43:05 Even if it's not of a function. 06:46:26 actually wait 06:46:43 your example doesn't even work 06:47:01 because if you're making a graph of all the points where y^2 = x^2 06:47:24 that's the union of the lines x = y and y = x 06:47:47 Yes, it's kind of a boring graph 06:47:56 but what does this derivative mean? 06:48:10 But for any point (x,y), dy/dx = x/y 06:48:23 like, what mathematical object is "dy/dx" in this case 06:48:36 it seems to me you keep adding assumptions to the notation here 06:48:58 Er, I assume you mean y = x and y = -x 06:49:00 Or something like that. 06:49:02 err yes 06:49:04 an X 06:49:16 What do you even mean when you say "y^2 = x^2"? 06:49:17 Let's take a better example. 06:49:34 Well, I can say what I mean. I mean a graph. 06:49:52 This one: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y^2=x^2 06:51:02 But let's take the graph defined by x^2 + y^2 = 1, which is a bit more interesting. 06:51:09 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=x^2%2By^2=1 06:52:23 We agree that this is a graph, and that neither x nor y is a function of the other one, and that at every point (x,y) in that graph, there's a tangent line? 06:59:30 I guess we don't agree. 07:00:04 Well what I mean is 07:00:32 What is the mathematical thing you are trying to do here? 07:00:43 this is exploration, nt exploitation, yo 07:00:44 not 07:00:57 I'm talking aboout the great things that this notation lets you do. 07:01:10 Then maybe we can figure out how to formalize it. 07:01:33 I think the meaning of that graph, and the meaning of the tangent lines, is very intuitively obvious 07:01:37 yes 07:01:54 So now we can say: d(x^2 + y^2) = d(1); 2x dx + 2y dy = 0; dy/dx = -x/y 07:02:02 What's d? I don't know exactly. 07:02:15 But at any point (x,y) on our circle, the slope of the tangent line is -x/y 07:04:17 mhmm 07:05:02 In fact this is true for any radius of circle. Imagine we were only looking at the top half of the circle, and we said something like y = sqrt(1-x^2). Then the derivative as a function of x would be different for each radius. But this method reveals that it's always the same in terms of (x,y). 07:06:13 agreed 07:06:52 So that's pretty good. But you don't like this notation. 07:07:32 How about this old trick people do: 07:07:53 I don't like it when people don't understand what they are doing 07:08:20 In this case, I do agree that it shows something interesting, but that thing must be backed by a proof 07:08:38 dy/dx = Ky; dy/y = K dx; ∫ dy/y = ∫ K dx; log(y) + C = kx + D 07:08:38 is there a way to formalize d in such a way as to make what you did a proof? probably, but I don't know it 07:08:49 alercah: Yes. I agree wholeheartedly. 07:09:12 I think this is a really good notation, and there must be a formalism that makes it work, more than just handwaving and special cases. 07:09:18 But I don't know what it is. 07:09:45 so in the common case where it's being used for explicit differentiation, viewing dy/dx as a syntactic shorthand for a complex expression is fine 07:09:57 but then you must be careful how you manipulate differentials 07:10:09 Can you give me a case where the obvious mafipulations don't work? 07:10:19 not offhand, no 07:10:20 I call it mafipulation because it's unjustified manipulation. 07:10:28 I can't think of one either. 07:12:03 probably something that inadvertently divides by 0 07:12:19 Can you find one? 07:12:26 it's too late 07:12:29 One where the differentials are to blame. 07:12:32 I'll ponder it as I sleep maybe 07:12:37 sgtm 07:12:41 `? sgtm 07:12:42 Sergeant Mustard 07:12:49 `? lgtm 07:12:50 lgtm? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:16:43 alercah: If you think of counterexamples or formalizations or anything, I'd be interested. 07:31:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:45:04 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:58:27 (such an amount of research level math might overflow this channel) 07:58:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:59:17 Jafet: into mathoverflow 07:59:19 ? 08:45:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:15:46 -!- carado has joined. 09:46:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:01:11 -!- wanderman has joined. 10:06:54 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 10:34:37 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:35:18 -!- fungot has joined. 11:09:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:14:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:25:56 http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/bike-manufacturer-reduces-delivery-damage-70-per-cent-printing-tv-box-285180 11:27:19 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:27:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 12:12:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:13:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 12:24:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 12:25:09 -!- Zarutian has joined. 12:25:46 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:25:46 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 12:25:46 -!- Zarutian_ has changed nick to Zarutian. 12:36:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:47:27 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:14 where did noah keep his bees? 12:49:19 in the ark hives 13:06:16 -!- boily has joined. 13:14:34 >.< 13:15:34 did he have more than 2 bees? i guess 2 would probably have died horribly 13:15:35 ŏ_ô? 13:19:36 boily: don' worry, he probably had two chickens too 13:20:23 <\oren\> kon boily ha! 13:20:28 always carry a spare chicken with you. 13:20:48 ヘッロレン！ 13:20:49 it may you help cross ravines 13:21:09 or was it a river 13:21:16 or a raven? 13:21:25 <\oren\> can you judge typographical quality of these hangul?: http://orenwatson.be/korean.PNG 13:21:36 I don't recall any ravens in the vicinity of Guybrush... hmm. 13:22:17 \oren\: looks convincingly foreign *ducks* 13:23:30 or alien. 13:23:51 \oren\: looks good to me. maybe stretch your ieungs a little bit more when they appear with a w- diphtong, and you're good to go. 13:24:42 for example, the ieung on 의 is too round. 13:25:45 <\oren\> oh, yeah. I should definitely fix that one. I think I'll just adjust it manually 13:29:35 <\oren\> speaking of alien, has anyone been so far as to make a sans-serif tengwar font? 13:30:43 there's a monospace one out there... 13:33:41 \oren\: probably the most noticable problem is "고" and "과" (the vertical bit of ㅗ should be on the left side of the vertical stroke in ㄱ) 13:33:43 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/workingOnTengwar.PNG I knocked these off yesterday, I'm not sure if they're any good 13:34:08 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: got it. I'll fix that 13:34:18 otherwise quite readable IMHO 13:35:20 tengwar's wikipedia article links to georgian script: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_scripts#Form_of_Asomtavruli_letters 13:41:15 -!- adu has joined. 13:41:19 <\oren\> tengwar alwats reminds me more of gujarati 13:42:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:42:11 <\oren\> or maybe arabic 13:44:56 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 13:51:41 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:52:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:53:44 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 15:30:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MUSCULAR CHICKEN). 15:36:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:40:36 @tell \oren\ <\oren\_> I already forgot what character is was <-- well it is hard to @tell people who keep changing nicks all the time tdnh 15:40:37 Consider it noted. 15:41:49 -!- Reece` has joined. 15:42:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:43:46 -!- Moonheart08 has joined. 15:45:03 Moooorning 15:49:33 fternoon 16:17:21 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:32 -!- heroux has joined. 16:20:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:29:49 -!- villasukka has joined. 16:31:12 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 16:31:39 \oren\, I see you added hangul to your font! 16:31:42 congratulations 16:57:20 * oerjan swats izalove -----### 16:57:31 there was a bee sitting on you hth 16:57:35 thanks 16:59:34 oerjan: a bee like http://pbfcomics.com/246/ 17:00:19 `perl-e 3**1.5 17:00:20 No output. 17:00:25 `perl-e print 3**1.5 17:00:26 5.19615242270663 17:01:40 boily: don' worry, he probably had two chickens too <-- fourteen hth 17:01:48 -!- nitrix_ has changed nick to nitrix. 17:03:01 `perl -eprint 3**1.5 17:03:02 5.19615242270663 17:03:45 redundant command is redundant 17:04:16 ``` cat bin/perl-e 17:04:17 ​#!/bin/bash \ perl -e "$@" 17:05:23 `perl -e print 3**1.5 17:05:24 5.19615242270663 17:12:57 oerjan, that seems a lot of chickens 17:14:40 `perl -e $x=sqrt 3;print$x+$x+$x; "I don't know what you guys are doing, but I must join" 17:14:41 5.19615242270663 17:14:55 `lua -eprint(3^(3/2)) 17:14:55 5.1961524227066 17:15:08 `ruby -ep 3**1.5 17:15:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found 17:15:10 Taneb: seven pairs hth 17:15:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:15:38 oerjan, or two sevens 17:16:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:16:40 well each pair is supposed to be one male and one female. which, come to think of it, is a bit weird for chickens. 17:19:43 -!- gremlins has joined. 17:20:51 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:22:20 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:25:25 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:25:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:28:58 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:29:54 oerjan: do please expound your deep knowledge of chicken 17:31:43 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:32:17 quintopia: my aunt once had some hth 17:32:32 (alive ones, that is) 17:32:57 also, i think you usually keep only one rooster 17:34:22 did she keep brood hens or broilers? 17:35:03 i think the former 17:35:47 not very sure. it's been more than 30 years... 17:35:51 oh 17:43:44 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:53 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:45:16 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 18:02:56 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:04:42 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:04:49 -!- clog has joined. 18:07:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:07:23 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:11:31 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 18:12:56 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 18:16:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:17:45 -!- Moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:18:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:18:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:20:33 -!- Moonheart08 has joined. 18:31:46 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:32:17 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:32:45 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:40:42 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:41:14 -!- carado has joined. 18:49:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:49:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:53:03 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:53:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:55:34 -!- Moonheart08 has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:05:05 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to d. 19:05:17 -!- d has changed nick to h. 19:05:20 -!- h has changed nick to i. 19:05:20 -!- i has changed nick to Guest36722. 19:05:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:05:30 -!- Guest36722 has changed nick to j. 19:05:32 -!- j has changed nick to k. 19:06:02 -!- k has changed nick to Guest47811. 19:06:03 -!- Guest47811 has changed nick to moon-e. 19:08:48 -!- moon-e has changed nick to e2. 19:19:49 -!- e2 has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:22:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:30:00 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to tachyon. 19:30:15 -!- tachyon has changed nick to luxon. 19:53:37 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 19:54:28 -!- luxon has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:54:30 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to luxon. 19:55:56 -!- luxon has changed nick to evilmoon. 19:59:11 -!- evilmoon has changed nick to evilnoon. 20:00:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:05:05 -!- evilnoon has changed nick to insane. 20:05:21 -!- insane has changed nick to evilnoon. 20:05:25 <\oren\> `unicode ی 20:05:27 U+06CC ARABIC LETTER FARSI YEH \ UTF-8: db 8c UTF-16BE: 06cc Decimal: ی \ ی \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: AL (Right-to-Left Arabic) 20:06:23 `unicode­ 20:06:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicode­: not found 20:06:33 `unicode ­ 20:06:35 U+00AD SOFT HYPHEN \ UTF-8: c2 ad UTF-16BE: 00ad Decimal: ­ \ ­ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) 20:10:06 <\oren\> `unicode cool, i can change the topic again | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | htt 20:10:07 No output. 20:10:09 <\oren\> 17:35 -!- Moonheart08 [~IceChat9@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf] has joined #esoteric 20:10:12 <\oren\> 17:46 -!- Zarutian [~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #esoteric 20:10:15 <\oren\> 17:46 -!- Zarutian [~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:19 <\oren\> 17:47 -!- Zarutian [~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #esoteric 20:10:22 <\oren\> 17:55 -!- carado [~carado@bea44-1-78-193-226-57.fbxo.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:25 <\oren\> 17:55 -!- carado [~carado@bea44-1-78-193-226-57.fbxo.proxad.net] has joined #esoteric 20:10:28 <\oren\> 18:03 -!- ais523 [~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:31 <\oren\> 18:03 -!- callforjudgement [~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523] has joined #esoteric 20:10:32 <\oren\> rrgh 20:10:34 <\oren\> 18:07 -!- callforjudgement [~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:38 lol 20:10:42 \oren\: ? 20:10:52 <\oren\> `unicode ک 20:10:52 U+06A9 ARABIC LETTER KEHEH \ UTF-8: da a9 UTF-16BE: 06a9 Decimal: ک \ ک \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: AL (Right-to-Left Arabic) 20:11:04 is ! a valid nick? 20:11:04 `unicode­ ais523 20:11:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicode­: not found 20:11:08 <\oren\> stupid bluetoth mouse is malfunctioning 20:11:21 <\oren\> selecting things on its own 20:11:23 ais523: it is not 20:11:27 hmm, how come \oren\ can spell unicode and evilnoon can't 20:11:30 `unicode a 20:11:31 No output. 20:11:41 `cat bin/unicode 20:11:42 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ # -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- \ import re \ import sys, os \ import unicodedata \ def l(c): m = re.match('(?:U[+])?([0-9a-f]{1,5})$', c, re.I); return unicodedata.lookup(c) if m is None else unichr(int(m.group(1),16)) \ try: \ print u''.join(map(l, sys.argv[1:])).encode('utf-8') \ except KeyError: \ os.execvp("multico 20:11:45 `unicode­ ais523 20:11:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicode­: not found 20:12:02 `unidecode `unicode 20:12:03 ​[U+003C LESS-THAN SIGN] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0076 LATIN SMALL LETTER V] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL 20:12:13 `unidecode `unicode 20:12:14 ​[U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] 20:12:23 well that looks like it was spelled correctly… 20:12:34 `unidecode de­ ai 20:12:34 ais523: because im fooling with you, (SOFT HYPHEN) 20:12:35 ​[U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+00AD SOFT HYPHEN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] 20:12:38 <\oren\> ais523: he put a soft hyphen 20:12:42 ah, there we go 20:12:51 I found the shy just before you told me about it 20:13:02 <\oren\> which if you had a good font, you'd be able to see 20:13:15 doesn't that defeat the point of a soft hyphen? 20:13:19 ^ 20:13:24 <\oren\> yes 20:13:48 they are good for messing with people :P 20:14:15 evilnoon: nah, I was fairly convinced there was a hidden character or homograph character in there somewhere 20:14:17 silly evilnoon 20:14:29 just took me a while to find it 20:15:22 (SOFT HYPHEN)s are also good for messing with e *winks at firefly) 20:16:03 I though shy's was how e messed with one 20:17:43 <\oren\> `unicode 20AF 20:17:44 ​₯ 20:17:55 -!- alakra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:03 -!- alakra has joined. 20:18:18 <\oren\> that character is an interesting one because it never actually appeared on the greek drachma notes 20:18:22 `unicode 00AF 20:18:23 ​¯ 20:18:26 `unicode 00AD 20:18:28 ​­ 20:19:24 <\oren\> instead, notes and coins bore 'Δρχ' on them 20:20:20 `` echo `unicode­ ais523 | cat -c 20:20:21 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 20:20:24 `` echo `unicode­ ais523 | cat -v 20:20:25 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 20:20:31 `` echo ' `unicode­ ais523' | cat -v 20:20:32 ​ `unicodeM-BM-- ais523 20:20:36 there we go 20:20:38 take that, soft hyphen 20:25:21 -!- ybden has changed nick to __builtin_ybden. 20:28:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:34:55 -!- evilnoon has changed nick to qwerty. 20:35:04 -!- qwerty has changed nick to qwertyuiop[]\. 20:35:14 -!- qwertyuiop[]\ has changed nick to qwertyuiop[]\asd. 20:35:33 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to stopchangingnick. 20:35:41 -!- stopchangingnick has changed nick to \oren\. 20:35:54 -!- qwertyuiop[]\asd has changed nick to luxon. 20:37:11 <\oren\> @messages-lead 20:37:11 oerjan said 4h 56m 34s ago: <\oren\_> I already forgot what character is was <-- well it is hard to @tell people who keep changing nicks all the time tdnh 20:43:19 @messages 20:43:19 You don't have any messages 20:45:17 `` cd wisdom; grep -l invalid * 20:45:25 grep: ¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: icbm: Is a directory \ grep: le: Is a directory \ grep: ¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: ¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ ☾_ \ ørjan \ reflection 20:45:40 `? ☾_ 20:45:40 ​☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. 20:45:56 `? reflection 20:45:57 cat.reflection. 20:46:03 oh, right. 20:47:06 * luxon is anti ☾_, he sometimes spits out papers 20:47:13 -!- luxon has changed nick to moon_. 20:47:39 -!- moon_ has changed nick to moon__. 20:47:51 well then, somone clamed the nickname 'moon_' 20:48:23 cocoon is free 20:48:32 im good 20:48:35 `? cocoon 20:48:36 Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. 20:48:43 truth 20:49:13 `? #esoteric 20:49:14 ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts. 20:49:25 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:49:38 `? music 20:49:39 music? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:49:43 :o 20:49:51 is music not a tanebvention? 20:50:09 taneb didn't invent everything, you know 20:50:21 `addwisdom music is one of few things taneb did not invent 20:50:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addwisdom: not found 20:50:39 `le/rn music/The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. 20:50:43 Learned «music» 20:51:02 `? music 20:51:03 The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. 20:51:57 `le/rn the most hideous cacophony in G minor/The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Beethoven and/or Taneb 20:52:01 Learned «the most hideous cacophony in g minor» 20:52:19 `? the most hideous cacophony in G mino 20:52:20 the most hideous cacophony in G mino? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:52:23 `? the most hideous cacophony in G minor 20:52:24 The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Beethoven and/or Taneb 20:52:33 Given the context it should be Bach, not Beethoven. 20:52:51 fine 20:53:05 `le/rn the most hideous cacophony in G minor/The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor (Op. -3) is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Bach and/or Taneb 20:53:08 Relearned «the most hideous cacophony in g minor» 20:53:12 (Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency) 20:53:31 I've been working on something with a friend but given I don't have access to a Rust compiler right now I've handwritten the code 20:54:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:54:00 -!- evilipse has joined. 20:54:06 evening ladies 20:54:14 `relcome evilipse 20:54:17 ​evilipse: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:54:36 noice 20:54:39 evilipse: hai 20:54:56 hiya 20:56:49 hackego's prefix is `, ` runs a script with a single argument, `` runs valid bash 20:57:22 -!- shachaf has left. 20:57:32 `ls 20:57:33 advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 20:57:44 sooo 20:57:48 `stat advice 20:57:48 `pwd 20:57:48 ​ File: `advice' \ Size: 4096 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 directory \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 927683 Links: 2 \ Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-09-25 00:49:20.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-05-03 23:15:07.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-05-03 23:15:07.000000000 +0000 \ B 20:57:48 ​/hackenv 20:57:54 `whoami 20:57:55 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 20:58:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:58:24 hackego is built off a custom sandbox made by Gregor (hasent been seen in a while) 20:58:29 moon__: do i try and break it 20:58:37 `paste advice 20:58:37 go ahead, they dont care :P 20:58:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/advice 20:58:50 read the advice tho 20:59:01 int-e thats a invalid file 20:59:10 `rm -rf ~ 20:59:12 o.......o 20:59:12 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 20:59:31 err... pleasedont. 20:59:34 `>~ 20:59:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: >~: not found 20:59:44 `~ 20:59:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ~: not found 20:59:47 `` ~ 20:59:48 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /tmp: Is a directory 20:59:48 `rm 20:59:49 rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 20:59:51 `rm -rf 20:59:51 No output. 20:59:55 `rm -rf 1 20:59:55 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 20:59:59 `rm -rf ~ 21:00:00 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 21:00:20 moon__: I can see it's a directory, but I wonder why it's not in the repo 21:00:27 `ls advice 21:00:28 No output. 21:00:28 same 21:00:31 Etherium was forked? :/ 21:00:38 evilipse: we can rollback you know 21:00:49 Sgeo: old news, or did they do that again? 21:01:02 Old news (from this year) 21:01:03 `wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/itslukej/ComputerCrashyCrashy/master/Main.py 21:01:04 ​--2016-09-25 20:01:00-- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/itslukej/ComputerCrashyCrashy/master/Main.py \ Resolving raw.githubusercontent.com (raw.githubusercontent.com)... failed: Name or service not known. \ wget: unable to resolve host address `raw.githubusercontent.com' 21:01:07 sick 21:01:13 Sgeo: I mean that was more than a month ago ;-) 21:01:17 -!- jeffl35 has joined. 21:01:31 `relcome jeffl35 21:01:32 ​jeffl35: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 21:01:36 `help fetch 21:01:37 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:03:06 `run lci 21:03:06 bash: lci: command not found 21:03:09 :( 21:04:06 moon__: poke 21:04:09 mooo 21:04:11 `ls 21:04:12 advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 21:04:18 moon__: did you make hackego? 21:04:22 uh no. 21:04:31 Gregor (hasent been seen in a while) did 21:04:36 Sgeo: 3 months even... time passes so quickly. 21:04:44 ``rm -rf ~ 21:04:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `rm: not found 21:04:51 `` rm -rf ~ 21:04:52 rm: cannot remove `/tmp': Permission denied 21:04:56 wat 21:04:57 lul 21:05:00 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:05:04 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:05:12 `` chmod ~ 777 -R 21:05:12 Done 21:05:13 chmod: invalid mode: `/tmp' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 21:05:20 `` chmod 777 ~ -R 21:05:21 chmod: changing permissions of `/tmp': Operation not permitted 21:05:23 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:05:23 `` ls -al / 21:05:24 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:05:25 total 32 \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:05 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:05 .. \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 bin \ drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 dev \ drwxr-xr-x 4 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:05 etc \ drwxr-xr-x 27 5000 5000 4096 Sep 25 19:53 hackenv \ drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:05 home \ d 21:05:38 `` echo $SHELL 21:05:39 ​/bin/sh 21:05:40 `` chmod 777 / -R 21:05:49 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:05:50 `` node 21:05:54 `` nodejs 21:05:56 did i break it 21:05:58 lol 21:06:05 `` bash 21:06:05 hehee 21:06:06 it will end in 30 seconds or a minute, depends 21:06:14 there _is_ a timeout 21:06:28 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:06:35 `` chmod 777 / -R 21:06:35 `` chmod 777 / -R 21:06:40 oops 21:06:44 evilipse: i recommend you stop 21:06:46 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:06:49 why 21:06:51 `` ps aux 21:06:54 why 21:06:58 dont abuse the darn thing :P 21:07:02 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:07:03 make me 21:07:06 chmod: changing permissions of `/': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4/features': Operation not permitted \ 21:07:07 chmod: changing permissions of `/': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4/features': Operation not permitted \ 21:07:09 its slow, it runs on the same server as the wiki ( i beleive) 21:07:10 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 20:07 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 20:07 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 20:07 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? 21:07:10 lul 21:07:14 `` chmod 000 / -R 21:07:15 `` top 21:07:25 uh 21:07:26 ??? 21:07:28 `` htop 21:07:33 * jeffl35 pokes HackEgo 21:07:36 *sigh* 21:07:39 fizzie halp 21:07:40 chmod: changing permissions of `/': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4/features': Operation not permitted \ 21:07:41 kiddies 21:07:41 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: htop: command not found 21:07:55 kids in a candy store at night 21:07:59 `` ls 21:08:12 No output. 21:08:12 No output. 21:08:12 No output. 21:08:12 moon__: lets add a lolcode interpreter to otherbot :P 21:08:13 No output. 21:08:13 No output. 21:08:13 No output. 21:08:18 `` ls 21:08:19 No output. 21:08:20 `` ls -al 21:08:21 No output. 21:08:25 `` ls -al / 21:08:25 ahhhhhh 21:08:26 No output. 21:08:28 uh 21:08:29 ??? 21:08:31 uhhh 21:08:43 int-e i think i broke something halp, either me or them 21:08:43 `` chmod 000 / -R 21:08:44 No output. 21:08:56 lol 21:08:58 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:08:59 abort: repository /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env not found! 21:08:59 * evilipse high fives 21:09:05 * evilipse high fives jeffl35 21:09:07 uhhh 21:09:15 we did it 21:09:16 :o 21:09:29 * moon__ runs screaming 21:09:34 -!- moon__ has left ("FIZZIE HALP"). 21:09:40 lul 21:09:44 we did it 21:09:49 i didn't --no-preserve-root yet 21:09:59 -!- moon__ has joined. 21:10:10 `` rm --help 21:10:11 No output. 21:10:16 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:10:16 abort: repository /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env not found! 21:10:17 `` echo $SHELL 21:10:17 No output. 21:10:19 `` sh 21:10:19 No output. 21:10:25 `` sh -c 'echo $SHELL' 21:10:26 No output. 21:10:35 `` ls -alR / 21:10:36 apparently hackego suffered annihilation 21:10:36 No output. 21:10:39 we bork it 21:10:40 rip 21:10:41 w000000000 21:11:47 fizzie? int-e? the mercuial is down 21:11:55 the repository is gone 21:12:03 What you did was to remove all permissions from the hg repo directory. 21:12:13 that was evilipse and jeffl35 21:12:15 So I will need to revert back a bit manually. 21:12:25 moon__: not me 21:12:28 that was eclipse 21:12:32 `` ls -alR / 21:12:33 No output. 21:12:36 but ^ 21:12:36 true. 21:13:08 Yes, the sandbox stuff wasn't apparently really expecting that. 21:13:27 `` chmod -Rfv 777 / 21:13:27 No output. 21:13:31 so they found a way to bonk it. might want to patch that 21:13:37 ^ 21:13:52 IF you know how Gregor's sandbox software works 21:14:40 I'm just looking at a suitable commit to revert back to (plus how to do it), because I'd rather not have those all-777 permissions everywhere, they look spectacularly ugly. 21:15:01 942e964c81c1 should do it, iots the first one before they came along 21:15:11 fizzie: 942e964c81c1 was fine. were the chmods actually committed? 21:15:14 its the one i reverted it back to repeatedly 21:15:55 int-e: Only the "chmod 777 / -R" is in. 21:16:08 pity 21:16:56 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:17:37 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:17:43 That took quite a while. 21:17:47 `ls 21:17:50 advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 21:18:57 `le\rn evilipse\ the most evil of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 21:18:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: le\rn: not found 21:19:11 `ls bin 21:19:12 ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ 21:19:18 It's the other sort of slash. 21:19:24 `` ls -alR / 21:19:25 ​/: \ total 32 \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:19 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:19 .. \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 bin \ drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 4096 Jan 29 2014 dev \ drwxr-xr-x 4 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:19 etc \ drwx--x--x 27 5000 5000 4096 Sep 25 20:17 hackenv \ drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 0 Sep 25 20:19 21:19:29 `le/rn evilipse/ the most evil of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 21:19:31 Learned «evilipse» 21:19:41 That extra space in the beginning is a bit silly. 21:19:52 o: 21:20:01 `? evilipse 21:20:01 ​ the most evil of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 21:20:05 well i am evil indeed 21:20:32 From what I've seen so far, I think "obnoxious" is a better adjective. 21:20:50 `le/rn evilipse/ the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 21:20:52 Relearned «evilipse» 21:21:33 ls -alR /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env 21:21:38 `` ls -alR /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env 21:21:40 ls: cannot access /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env: No such file or directory 21:21:55 thats a artifact of the bot's main script 21:22:16 `` ls -alR /home/../home/../././././../home/./././././hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env 21:22:18 ls: cannot access /home/../home/../././././../home/./././././hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env: No such file or directory 21:23:20 `` rm --no-preserve-root -rf /home 21:23:21 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/revert': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/fe 21:23:24 That's not a path that makes sense inside the environment the commands run in. 21:23:36 `` chmod 000 / -R 21:23:40 lol 21:23:44 *scree* 21:23:46 Okay, that's just *stupid*. 21:23:46 No output. 21:24:02 fizzie: if hackego has a block list, use it 21:24:44 There was some sort of a thing, but I'm not terribly familiar with it. 21:25:09 `` cmake 21:25:10 No output. 21:25:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:25:19 `` git clone https://github.com/justinmeza/lci && cd lci 21:25:20 No output. 21:25:23 -!- Time-Wrap has joined. 21:25:26 -!- evilipse has left ("Leaving"). 21:25:30 oh right Time-Wrap borked it 21:25:39 ais523: dont look now, but evilipse decided to chmod 000 / -R 21:25:59 moon__: where? hackego? 21:26:04 * Time-Wrap hides 21:26:08 that's easy enough to fix 21:26:12 ais523: It's not. 21:26:20 :DDDDDDDDDDDDd 21:26:21 oh, does `revert not handle file modes? 21:26:29 fizzie has to manually repair it 21:26:32 ` ls 21:26:33 `ls 21:26:33 No output. 21:26:34 No output. 21:26:41 it borks the bot entirely 21:26:42 ais523: `revert does, but the sandbox is all confused if there's no access to the repo working directory. 21:26:50 ais523: So I need to manually chmod, then revert. 21:26:55 in that case maybe we've found a second way to break the bot 21:27:12 no, i ddi 21:27:13 I was quite pleased with myself when I (admittedly inadvertently) broke `revert 21:27:13 ais523: The stupid part here is that it was already done once, and then just repeated. 21:27:14 *did 21:27:17 ^ 21:27:18 so that it displayed an error message every time 21:27:31 IIRC that still hasn't been fixed 21:27:53 I was trying to figure out if freenode's chanserv has some sort of auto-timed ban feature, actually. 21:28:28 I don't think so; I've only seen the eir service bot handle ban timeouts. 21:28:41 fizzie: you can timed akick 21:28:49 (I think) 21:28:59 it does 21:29:01 a timed akick 21:29:19 Well, maybe third time will be the charm. 21:29:23 fizzie: is there a tr_60.cmd script with a hard-coded list of nicks? 21:29:27 `` ls 21:29:28 advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 21:29:34 int-e: There was something like that, yes. 21:29:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:29:44 int-e: Though a nick-based list isn't exactly the most robust thing in the world. 21:29:47 `` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban 21:29:57 rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/meta_bg_resize': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/batched_discard': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/lazy_itable_init': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/cgroup': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0': Permission 21:30:15 recursive rm /is/ something that the bot should be able to guard against 21:30:20 (that may also be the right place to fix up permissions... though I'm a bit confused by the fact that they are getting messed up permanently in the first place. 21:30:26 ) 21:30:27 `ls 21:30:28 canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ factor \ good \ hw \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quotes \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 21:30:46 come to think of it, it's even possible it'd delete the incorrect permissions and let the revert restore the correct ones 21:30:53 can i find more ways to break it? 21:31:03 anyways i want my lolcode interpreter 21:31:07 although bin seems to be missing 21:31:09 int-e: Well, they aren't, really. The chmod 000 just sets the working copy directory permissions, and doesn't commit anything. 21:31:15 ``l* 21:31:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `l*: not found 21:31:16 `` git clone https://github.com/justinmeza/lci && cd lci 21:31:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 21:31:32 `` curl icanhazip.com 21:31:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 21:31:33 Huh, that's the weirdest. 21:31:43 ` curl icanhazip.com 21:31:43 `revert 58b9ee8f97a7 21:31:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 21:31:46 oh wow, it seems it deleted advice, bin, and ibin 21:31:50 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:31:53 and left everything else the same? 21:31:57 yeeeeaahhhhhh boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 21:31:59 ais523: Yeah. I think that might've been the timeout. 21:32:06 `revert 942e964c81c1 21:32:07 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 21:32:08 `` git clone https://github.com/justinmeza/lci && cd lci 21:32:08 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: git: command not found 21:32:12 :( 21:32:18 `` unzip 21:32:19 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: unzip: command not found 21:32:22 jeffl35: it mostly doesn't have internet access 21:32:28 :( 21:32:43 y u no git 21:32:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:33:15 That's probably Gregor's peculiarities, he's sort of a mercurial guy. 21:33:43 :( 21:33:49 if your lucky fizzie may be nice and throw the git repository in the bot for you 21:34:08 i just like lolcode for some random reason 21:34:23 tip: hackego does not support multiline 21:34:24 I'm not sure it's very well-suited for IRC, isn't it a bit verbose? 21:34:30 HAI 1.2, I HAZ A POKE, GIMMEH POKE, VISIBLE "I POKES :{POKE}", KTHXBYE 21:34:34 *HAS 21:34:45 it's fine 21:34:51 afaik 21:34:59 Well, there's a built-in `fetch command that has internet access, you can download a tarball. 21:35:02 `` which sh 21:35:03 ​/bin/sh 21:35:09 `` rm -f /bin/sh 21:35:10 rm: cannot remove `/bin/sh': Read-only file system 21:35:12 lol 21:35:23 jeffl35: thre is a article for it on the esolang wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/LOLCODE 21:35:26 could use some updating 21:35:28 moon__: i saw 21:35:37 nah 21:35:45 just tell people to go to wikipedia 21:35:49 i'd rather edit wikipedia 21:35:50 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:36:04 (and the wikipedia article is fine except for file i/o) 21:36:33 the esolang wiki article contains more info than the wikipedia article 21:36:34 :P 21:36:43 fizzie: I'm irritated that the permissions on the working directory prevent it from executing any command, even if it's in /bin. But I only know some bits and pieces of the bot, and they're probably outdated. 21:37:16 int-e: Yeah, it's a bit scow. 21:37:19 (gleaned from gregor's public repos) 21:38:00 * Zarutian hopes that \oren\ gets over the Bluetoothache. 21:38:22 * jeffl35 21:38:32 * moon__ 21:39:46 does anybode know an android app that lets you do basic image processing? most stuff i find just puts filters over everything 21:40:00 int-e: It might even be the UML refusing to run if given a --translate-write path with no permissions; I could imagine it trying to stat it or something. 21:41:22 I don't know; I seem to recall some logfile somewhere, but at least the main log (with all input/output) had no error messages in it. 21:42:04 fizzie: Oh, darn, if the mount target directory isn't accessible, the mount call will probably fail. 21:42:32 And there are quite a few things mounted directly under /hackenv 21:43:48 -!- otherbot has joined. 21:44:10 jeffl35: please state the purpose of having otherbot here >_> 21:44:18 (well, at least .hg) 21:45:40 -part #esoteric 21:45:41 -!- otherbot has left. 21:45:42 -!- augur has joined. 21:46:15 int-e: At any rate, since `revert runs outside, as an easy fix it could do some sanity-restoring of the working copy first, since it then is going to run the 'hg revert' on it anyway. 21:48:05 Yeah. In fact, ensuring that $HACKENV has +rwx for the user could just be enough, because then the mercurial repo is readable, and mercurial might be smart enough to figure out the rest. 21:48:17 -!- otherbot has joined. 21:51:15 It's also scow how the web repository browser goes inaccessible when the working copy permissions are bad. Makes it harder to see what has happened so far. Maybe the whole transact logic should just in general enforce u+rwx on the env directory. 21:51:20 It's nice to speculate, but it's not like we've gotten around to fixing the previous issue either. I don't want to too much to the existing bot instance because I don't know if Gregor's actually "using" it still, and it might complicate future updates if I do a patch that's not in whatever source control he's using. 21:51:57 Well, maybe a shower will help. 21:52:54 woo, my CaC has 8 days uptime and still no write or read errors on sda! 21:53:06 I think that's some sort of record. 21:56:38 -help 21:56:38 Use 'help ' 21:57:30 -poke moon__ 21:57:30 * otherbot pokes moon__ 21:57:32 teehee 21:57:39 you're pokable now 21:58:03 -!- moon__ has changed nick to moonythedwardf. 21:58:06 -!- moonythedwardf has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 21:58:15 please save that for the bots channel :P 22:02:00 `? esoteric 22:02:03 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 22:02:11 `? #esoteric 22:02:12 ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts. 22:02:25 ... 22:02:54 `? #esoteric-blah 22:02:55 ​#esoteric-blah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:03:45 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CatIsFluffy * New user account 22:04:08 i wonder if mr/ms/mrs new user will get on the channel 22:05:21 -!- Cale has joined. 22:05:43 is Cale new? 22:05:57 `relcome cale #hopefully i did this right 22:06:00 ​cale: #hopefully: i: did: this: right: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric 22:06:27 `` relcome cale #hopefully i did this right 22:06:28 ​cale: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:08:17 int-e: who's monqy anyways? 22:09:01 Not particularly new 22:09:41 Cale is an oldtimer who has recently found the way to #esoteric. 22:09:51 ah 22:10:08 int-e: who was monqy 22:10:21 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49760&oldid=49749 * CatIsFluffy * (+247) 22:10:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:10:50 (and I've also not been on this channel for most of its existence... I don't recall monqy) 22:10:52 [wiki] [[Minebit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49761&oldid=46230 * CatIsFluffy * (+171) added detail about computational class with infinite data tape 22:11:15 bbiab, I'm actually moving this computer :) 22:11:50 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:12:29 looks like someone hit the 'random esolang' button 22:12:44 -reload 22:12:44 Reloading modules... 22:12:57 jeffl35: dont test it in here >_> 22:12:58 -lol HAI 1.2,VISIBLE "OHAI",KTHXBYE 22:13:02 test it in your channel. 22:13:03 ok fine 22:13:41 [wiki] [[User:CatIsFluffy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49762 * CatIsFluffy * (+72) Created page with "I made the [[Talk:Quiney|Quiney interpreter]] and [[Syms]]. Good for me." 22:14:38 [wiki] [[User talk:50.161.94.113]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49763&oldid=46320 * CatIsFluffy * (+49) 22:16:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:17:40 -pad HAI 1.2, VISIBLE "OHAI", KTHXBYE 22:17:41 -lolr 22:17:42 Error opening file '/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/lcipadcode'. 22:17:44 lol 22:17:57 [wiki] [[Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49764&oldid=42771 * CatIsFluffy * (+1) Finished article by request 22:17:58 -reload 22:17:58 Reloading modules... 22:18:02 -pad HAI 1.2, VISIBLE "OHAI", KTHXBYE 22:18:03 -lolr 22:18:03 OHAI 22:18:11 yay, lolcode 22:18:41 -pad HAI 1.2, I HAS A POKE, POKE R "moonythedwarf", VISIBLE "I POKES :{POKE}", KTHXBYE 22:18:44 -lolr 22:18:45 OHAI 22:18:55 might want to -padclr 22:18:55 -padclr 22:19:00 -pad HAI 1.2, I HAS A POKE, POKE R "moonythedwarf", VISIBLE "I POKES :{POKE}", KTHXBYE 22:19:03 -lolr 22:19:03 I POKES moonythedwarf 22:19:05 -padclear 22:19:06 and test in ##jeffl35 damnit 22:19:06 :D 22:20:56 [wiki] [[Syms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49765&oldid=46587 * CatIsFluffy * (-9) Hi! 22:22:26 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:22:57 For aircraft weight and balance calculation the plot will have an envelope that has a polygon that it is necessary for the plot to be inside of. Is such polygon guaranteed to be monotone or other properties? 22:23:25 ?! 22:23:25 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 22:24:03 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:25:55 zzo38: doesn't look that way: https://sites.google.com/site/aerodynamics4students/table-of-contents/aircraft-performance-1/flight-envelope 22:27:10 even less convex: http://s6.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/aerodynamics/index.php/sample-page/aircraft-performance/flight-envelope/ 22:27:14 -pad HAI 1.2,I HAS A YAY,YAY R "IOVOID",YAY,WTF?,OMG "IOVOID",VISIBLE "PING.IO",GTFO,OMG "JEFFL35",VISIBLE "OHAI JEFF",GTFO,OMGWTF,VISIBLE "OHAI",GTFO,OIC,KTHXBYE 22:27:20 -lolr 22:27:20 PING.IO 22:27:36 fizzie: verbose but workable :) /me pokes jeffl35 22:27:40 ... 22:27:54 oh and don't forget padclr 22:27:59 -padclr 22:28:03 moonythedwarf_: can you make padclr run automatically after lolr 22:28:06 so people don't like die 22:28:14 because once you KTHXBYE you can't really add anything to it 22:28:17 wait, i'll do it 22:28:18 jeffl35: feel free to add it _urself_ 22:29:46 -relado 22:29:48 -reload 22:29:48 Reloading modules... 22:30:00 -pad HAI 1.2,VISIBLE "lol",KTHXBYE 22:30:00 -lolr 22:30:01 lol 22:30:04 -lolr 22:30:04 /home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/lcipadcode:1: expected HAI at: end of file 22:30:07 ok 22:30:17 int-e: That looks different from the weight and balance plots that I have seen, and I do not see weight and balance calculation mentioned there. 22:33:06 For the record, putting a lolcode thing on HackEgo would be quite okay, though you'd likely need to find/make a tarball to get it there. And you could also add commands for a pad-like thing using a /hackenv/tmp/pad file for unversioned state. 22:33:17 The plots I meant have weight plotted on the Y axis and position on the X axis. 22:33:39 [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49766&oldid=49055 * Luis Mendo * (+29) Turing-complete category 22:33:53 fizzie: i understand that, me and jeffl develop otherbot in javascript, a language we are familiar with, i may try and tackle it for hackego however 22:34:16 [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49767&oldid=49766 * Luis Mendo * (+0) 22:34:39 Well, that's fine too. 22:36:07 Heh, I hadn't logged in to bitbucket for so long, they've completely revamped their account system as well. 22:36:34 -pad hia 1.2 22:36:46 -padclr 22:36:52 -ad HAI 1.2 22:36:56 -pad HAI 1.2 22:37:58 -pad VISIBLE "HAI WORLD" 22:38:03 -pad KTHXBYE 22:38:05 -lolr 22:38:05 Error opening file '/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/lcipadcode'. 22:38:18 Ugh. Atlassian's account verification thing sends an HTML-only email, and the HTML-only email contains Download images and then verify your email address! 22:39:25 O.o 22:39:57 I'm not sure what's in the images, because the verify-my-email link is also in the text. 22:40:04 Maybe they'll quiz me on the images later. 22:40:46 (The verify link is 520 characters long.) 22:43:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:43:41 [wiki] [[NRSRSSOMN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49768&oldid=39323 * CatIsFluffy * (+154) 22:45:38 -list 22:45:38 jeffl35: echo ping pong eval flushq help list use store cash inv savecstate buy sell give kick ban unban op deop attack poke join part reload whois nick pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lol lolr 22:46:28 -list 22:46:29 jeffl35: echo ping pong eval flushq help list use store cash inv savecstate buy sell give kick ban unban op deop attack poke join part reload whois nick pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lolr 22:47:12 well, now it runs befunge and lolcode 22:47:13 ya 22:47:22 yay 22:47:30 That's even more suitable for IRC. 22:47:35 its storming outside 22:48:07 fizzie: what is? 22:48:29 zzo38: okay. take https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/ca-publications/chart1b.jpg then. (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_%28aeronautics%29) 22:48:59 Befunge. 22:49:05 ah 22:49:22 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 22:49:43 hi tswett 22:50:00 Hi. 22:50:15 i wonder what the perfect programming language (that can be ran by a computer) would be for IRC 22:51:14 fizzie: maybe if you don't download the images from the server then it won't let you verify, lol 22:51:19 How about Javascript? 22:51:39 tswett: annoying to sandbox safely, especially on a bot written in it (otherbot) 22:52:28 tswett: my friend has broken every single javascript sandbox in existence 22:52:35 moonythedwarf_: you can pass your code to something that runs in qemu 22:52:38 including math.js, the VM module, etc 22:52:51 izalove: that's no longer a sandbox, lol, that's virtualization 22:53:06 it's a safe sandbox 22:53:07 -eval 1+1+1+1+1 22:53:07 5 22:53:16 -calc 22:53:21 we dont have time to set that up a of now izalove 22:53:22 jeffl35: including, say, Firefox? 22:53:34 tswett: no, i mean in node.js 22:53:38 moonythedwarf_: there's geirha/shbot on github 22:53:40 int-e: O, OK. It isn't a polygon, although it is still seeming monotone property. 22:53:50 jeffl35: calc was replaced by -giac 22:53:52 like something that is written in javascript but wishes to safely execute js code 22:53:55 moonythedwarf_: yeah, ik 22:54:06 If you want something sandboxable, the only other things that come to my mind are Lua and .NET. 22:54:07 -giac solve(32x^23-31x^2+1,x) 22:54:07 Help file /usr/share/giac/doc/local/aide_cas not found Added 0 synonyms Warning, argument is not an equation, solving 32*x^23-31*x^2+1=0 list[-0.179605302027,0.179605302027,0.996921666093] // Time 0.01 // Total time 0.01 22:54:12 yay 22:54:23 Oh, and don't forget Java. 22:54:25 Do you have version 6 of Node.js? If so, then you can use proxy objects. 22:54:41 tswett: well with pypy-c-sandbox, python (rather limited) is sandboxable 22:54:47 -pyc efef 22:54:48 ​Traceback (most recent call last): | File "app_main.py", line 72, in run_toplevel | File "app_main.py", line 578, in run_it | File "", line 1, in | NameError: global name 'efef' is not defined | [Subprocess exit code: 1] | 22:55:17 -pyr 22:55:18 You dont have a valid codepad! 22:56:14 if one of you can make a sandbox Iovoid cannot break, then i will use that for JS 22:56:19 i doubt you can 22:56:29 When using Node.js's VM module there are many considerations to make when executing sandboxed code. For one thing, to make the sandbox object with no prototype. 22:57:00 we'll look into it 22:57:02 moonythedwarf_: What version of Node.js are you using though? 22:57:07 ill check 22:57:23 zzo38: when iovoid reported the bug, they were like "oh well it wasn't designed for that" 22:57:28 idk 22:57:33 but he broke math.js too 22:57:43 with constructors and such 22:57:59 aand math.js is a _CALCULATOR_ 22:58:15 jeffl35:~/workspace $ node -v | 22:58:19 wow cloud9 22:58:28 wow. we cant afford a server right now, but thats old 22:58:28 -calc x=f.constructor("return process.exit()");x() 22:58:30 and it dies 22:58:46 moonythedwarf_: what 22:58:49 Yes, there are things like that that can be done. 22:58:59 cloud9 uses node v4.5.0 jeffl 22:59:05 So, don't bring external functions into the sandbox exposed! 22:59:41 zzo38: we may try using a custom compiled copy of google's v8 engine for JS 22:59:49 You can create a function inside of the sandbox instead. 23:00:08 Can you install the latest version of Node.js? Version 4.5.0 is too old 23:00:10 for now, another suggustion please? :P 23:00:33 zzo38: i dunno if cloud9 workspaces would let us 23:00:59 moonythedwarf_: HQ9+ with an abridged version of 9. 23:01:03 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 23:01:15 doot trying 23:01:54 I have version 6.4.0 on my own computer 23:06:05 done 23:06:19 -!- otherbot has joined. 23:08:57 Also if you ensure that "use strict" is specified then you cannot use the callee/caller values to determine what called it. 23:10:30 our sandbox code is written with use strict already 23:10:43 OK, so you have already done that. 23:12:55 You could possibly to execute something like this in the sandbox to bring a function into the sandbox: (x=>y=>{ "use strict"; if(typeof y!=="number") throw new TypeError(); return x(y); }) 23:13:13 (I don't konw if there are other problems with this, but this is one thing I have thought of.) 23:14:02 int-e: I like umlbox's sophisticated kernel autoconfiguration mechanism. (Makefile with "yes '' | $(MAKE) ARCH=um oldconfig" in it.) 23:16:41 (You also will have to be safe if the function you are wrapping is going to return any kind of object.) 23:18:59 Do you know how to write Node.js addons? I don't understand it, so I hoped you would know. 23:20:57 Nope! 23:21:00 ask jeffl35 23:21:28 OK 23:22:20 im thinking underload would be good for IRC 23:22:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:23:10 what do you think /(zzo38|int-e|fizzie)/ 23:23:41 -!- iovoid has joined. 23:23:53 `relcome iovoid 23:23:56 I don't know, but I thought we might already have Underload on this IRC 23:24:00 ​iovoid: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:24:00 hi 23:24:01 true 23:24:02 we do 23:30:21 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to evilmoon. 23:31:42 -!- jeffl35 has changed nick to eviljeff. 23:32:11 -!- iovoid has changed nick to evilvoid. 23:32:11 iovoid: Do you know the way to sandbox that cannot break? I had several ideas including one is that the sandbox object should have no prototype, and other is to bring a function into the sandbox by executing a code like this inside of the sandbox: (x=>y=>{ "use strict"; if(typeof y!=="number") throw new TypeError(); return x(y); }) Other idea involved using proxy objects 23:33:45 sandboxes at the code level can be broken easy 23:34:07 Just because of how javascript works you can hide constructors 23:34:55 we tried that remember evilvoid? you can use the constructor's constructor 23:35:09 I meant cant 23:35:27 javascript can be considered self modifiying 23:35:36 in a semifinal way 23:35:56 I think since ES6 you can hide constructors if you are careful. 23:35:56 All the things can be turned into functions with constructors 23:36:12 not of core things 23:36:28 like Number, Function, Symbol and that 23:36:31 Or instances of them 23:36:42 You can create an object with no prototype, and primitives are not objects. 23:37:03 Everything is JS is a object when operations are done 23:37:13 like Object.toString(42) returns [object Number] 23:37:36 So a primitive number or symbol can be used without being an object. Yes, other than undefined and void, everything can be accessed their properties as if it is an object, but it isn't an object. 23:38:20 try 42.constructor, it will return Number, and the constructor of Number is Function 23:38:27 A function is an object, but I suggested a way to wrap a function like the way I mentioned above 23:38:32 evilvoid: Yes, I know that. 23:38:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:40:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:40:15 In the function you said it wouldnt be a real sandbox, just a calculator with very limited options 23:40:35 Try this: vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42)==Function the result is false. 23:41:06 Because, the value passed is a primitive and not an object, so it has the sandbox's Function and not the outside's Function, that is why it is false. 23:41:27 -!- Cale has joined. 23:41:41 Do you understand what I mean now? 23:41:47 > vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42).toString() 23:41:47 'function Function() { [native code] }' 23:41:49 error: 23:41:49 Not in scope: ‘Object.create’ 23:41:49 No module named ‘Object’ is imported. 23:42:17 oh haha very funny lambdabot 23:42:24 thats JS not haskell 23:42:28 lol 23:42:44 `? #esoteric evilvoid 23:42:45 ​#esoteric evilvoid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:42:47 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42).toString() 23:42:47 ReferenceError: vm is not defined 23:42:48 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:1) 23:42:48 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:42:49 Yes, the result is Function, but the sandbox's Function. 23:42:49 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:42:50 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:42:51 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:42:51 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:42:52 -flushq 23:42:52 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:42:53 Send queue flushed 23:42:56 ... 23:42:58 ops 23:42:59 So, it is a different Function. 23:43:06 Its Function 23:43:22 -eval global.vm = require("vm"); // There, now it will work 23:43:22 { Script: [Function: ContextifyScript], 23:43:23 createScript: [Function], 23:43:23 createContext: [Function], 23:43:24 runInDebugContext: [Function], 23:43:25 runInContext: [Function], 23:43:25 -flushq 23:43:26 Send queue flushed 23:43:36 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42).toString() 23:43:36 'function Function() { [native code] }' 23:43:36 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42).toString() 23:43:37 'function Function() { [native code] }' 23:43:40 there 23:43:55 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42).toString() 23:43:55 'function Function() { [native code] }' 23:44:06 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42) 23:44:07 [Function: Function] 23:44:21 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42)("return 2+2")() 23:44:21 4 23:44:22 lol Function is a Functin 23:44:41 -eval vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42)("return process.exit")() 23:44:41 ReferenceError: process is not defined 23:44:42 at eval (eval at (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27)), :2:8) 23:44:42 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:115) 23:44:43 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:44:44 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:44:44 -flushq 23:44:44 Send queue flushed 23:44:45 -flushq 23:44:45 Send queue flushed 23:44:46 -eval Function == Function 23:44:46 true 23:44:46 AAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:44:50 Try: new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("process.exit(1)")() See that it doesn't work. 23:44:53 -eval Function.constructor == Function 23:44:53 true 23:45:06 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("process.exit(1)")() 23:45:07 ReferenceError: process is not defined 23:45:07 at eval (eval at (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27)), :2:1) 23:45:08 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:118) 23:45:09 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:45:10 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:45:10 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:45:11 -flushq 23:45:11 Send queue flushed 23:45:19 ... 23:45:20 See? 23:45:21 You have to escape the context there 23:45:44 If you pass {} instead of 42 then it will exit, though. 23:45:50 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("process.exit(1)").toString() 23:45:50 'function anonymous() {\nprocess.exit(1)\n}' 23:45:57 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("process.exit(1)")() 23:45:57 ReferenceError: process is not defined 23:45:57 at eval (eval at (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27)), :2:1) 23:45:58 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:118) 23:45:59 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:45:59 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:46:00 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:46:01 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:46:01 -flushq 23:46:02 Send queue flushed 23:46:09 wait, restarting 23:46:14 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 23:46:32 -!- otherbot has joined. 23:46:54 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return this")() 23:46:54 ReferenceError: vm is not defined 23:46:55 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:7) 23:46:56 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:46:56 Because, the {} passed is an object from outside of the sandbox and therefore has the constructor from outside of the sandbox, but if you pass 42 then it is a primitive so it is converted inside of the sandbox instead. 23:46:56 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:46:57 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:46:58 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:46:58 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:46:59 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:47:00 at Array.forEach (native) 23:47:00 -flush 23:47:01 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:173:9) 23:47:01 at emitOne (events.js:96:13) 23:47:02 -flushq 23:47:02 Send queue flushed 23:47:06 -eval global.vm = require("vm"); // There, now it will work 23:47:07 { Script: [Function: ContextifyScript], 23:47:07 createScript: [Function], 23:47:08 createContext: [Function], 23:47:09 runInDebugContext: [Function], 23:47:09 runInContext: [Function], 23:47:10 runInNewContext: [Function], 23:47:10 -flushq 23:47:11 Send queue flushed 23:47:13 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return this")() 23:47:13 {} 23:47:26 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return this.constructor.constructor('return this')")() 23:47:26 [Function: anonymous] 23:47:31 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return this.constructor.constructor('return this')")()() 23:47:31 {} 23:48:10 See? It is not the same Function object. 23:48:16 -eval test 23:48:17 ReferenceError: test is not defined 23:48:17 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:1) 23:48:18 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:48:19 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:48:19 -fushq 23:48:19 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:48:20 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:48:21 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:48:21 -flushq 23:48:22 Send queue flushed 23:48:32 * eviljeff dies 23:48:34 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return this.constructor.constructor('return this')()")() 23:48:34 Do you believe me now? 23:48:35 {} 23:49:03 zzo38; give evilvoid time to test your theory out 23:49:08 OK 23:49:10 ^ 23:49:42 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (this.constructor.constructor('this'))()")() 23:49:42 undefined 23:49:56 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function(this.constructor.constructor('this'))()")() 23:49:56 undefined 23:50:00 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function(this.constructor.constructor('this'))()") 23:50:00 [Function: anonymous] 23:50:04 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function(this.constructor.constructor('this'))()").toString() 23:50:04 'function anonymous() {\nreturn Function(this.constructor.constructor(\'this\'))()\n}' 23:50:11 is the undefined incontext our out of context? 23:50:25 s/our/or/ 23:50:33 s/incontext/in context/ 23:50:36 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function(\this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:50:36 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:50:37 done 23:50:37 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:50:38 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:50:38 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:50:39 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:50:40 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:50:40 -flushq 23:50:40 Send queue flushed 23:50:40 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function(this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:50:41 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:50:42 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:50:42 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:50:43 If it is a primitive then it is irrelevant. 23:50:43 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:50:44 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:50:44 -flushq 23:50:45 Send queue flushed 23:50:56 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:50:56 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:50:57 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:50:58 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:50:58 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:50:59 otherbot is good for proving points in JS 23:50:59 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:51:00 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:51:01 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:51:01 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:51:02 at Array.forEach (native) 23:51:03 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:173:9) 23:51:03 at emitOne (events.js:96:13) 23:51:12 evilmoon: not when it dumps exceptions into a channel 23:51:23 lol 23:51:41 * evilmoon waits for fizzie to be done with his now hour long shower to come yell at us 23:51:42 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()")() 23:51:43 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:51:43 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:51:44 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:51:45 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:51:45 ugh 23:51:45 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:51:46 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:51:47 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:51:47 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:51:48 -flushq 23:51:48 Send queue flushed 23:51:50 maybe it's just because we're using old node.js 23:51:53 lemme see if i can update it 23:52:00 eviljeff: did you use nodejs? 23:52:02 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:52:02 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:52:02 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:52:03 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:52:04 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:52:04 the nodejs command 23:52:05 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:52:05 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:52:06 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:52:07 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:52:07 at Array.forEach (native) 23:52:08 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:173:9) 23:52:09 at emitOne (events.js:96:13) 23:52:09 i already installed the update 23:52:23 nodejs is the latest, node is the 4.5.0 23:52:39 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42)) 23:52:39 [Function: anonymous] 23:52:42 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))() 23:52:43 [Function: anonymous] 23:52:45 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))()() 23:52:46 undefined 23:52:49 removing package nodejs... 23:52:59 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))(42)("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:52:59 undefined 23:53:04 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')')()") 23:53:04 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:53:05 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:53:06 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:53:06 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:53:07 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:53:08 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:53:08 eviljeff: rlly? 23:53:08 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:53:09 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:53:10 at Array.forEach (native) 23:53:10 re-installing nodejs... 23:53:10 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:173:9) 23:53:11 at emitOne (events.js:96:13) 23:53:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'this\')'))()") 23:53:17 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:53:18 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:53:19 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:53:20 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:53:20 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:53:21 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:53:22 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:53:22 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:53:23 at Array.forEach (native) 23:53:24 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:173:9) 23:53:24 at emitOne (events.js:96:13) 23:53:49 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return 2+2") 23:53:49 [Function: anonymous] 23:53:51 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return 2+2")() 23:53:51 4 23:54:34 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'return this\')')") 23:54:34 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:54:35 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:54:36 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:54:36 -flushq 23:54:37 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:54:37 Send queue flushed 23:55:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('this.constructor.constructor(\'return this\')')") 23:55:17 SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list 23:55:17 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:55:18 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:55:18 -flushq 23:55:19 Send queue flushed 23:55:23 eviljeff: its alreayd installed idiot >_< 23:55:23 restarting otherbot (update node.js) 23:55:27 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 23:55:36 eviljeff: wut 23:55:37 on 23:55:38 uh 23:55:39 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function('return this')") 23:55:42 were we using node 23:55:44 >_< 23:55:46 lol 23:55:47 -!- otherbot has joined. 23:55:57 jeffl35:/etc/apt/sources.list.d $ node -v 23:55:57 v4.5.0 23:55:57 jeffl35:/etc/apt/sources.list.d $ nodejs -v 23:55:57 v6.6.0 23:56:00 ... 23:56:13 nvm... 23:56:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return x.constructor('return this')") 23:56:17 ReferenceError: vm is not defined 23:56:18 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:7) 23:56:19 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:56:19 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:56:19 -flushq 23:56:20 Send queue flushed 23:56:31 of course 23:56:32 -eval global.vm = require("vm") 23:56:32 { Script: [Function: ContextifyScript], 23:56:32 createScript: [Function], 23:56:33 createContext: [Function], 23:56:34 lemme fix nvm... 23:56:34 runInDebugContext: [Function], 23:56:35 runInContext: [Function], 23:56:35 runInNewContext: [Function], 23:56:35 -flushq 23:56:36 Send queue flushed 23:56:42 -eval global.vm = require("vm"); // There, now it will work 23:56:42 { Script: [Function: ContextifyScript], 23:56:43 createScript: [Function], 23:56:44 createContext: [Function], 23:56:44 runInDebugContext: [Function], 23:56:45 runInContext: [Function], 23:56:46 runInNewContext: [Function], 23:56:46 runInThisContext: [Function], 23:56:47 -flush 23:56:47 -flushq 23:56:47 isContext: [Function: isContext] } 23:56:48 Send queue flushed 23:56:50 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return x.constructor('return this')") 23:56:50 [Function: anonymous] 23:56:53 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return x.constructor('return this')")() 23:56:54 ReferenceError: x is not defined 23:56:54 at eval (eval at (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27)), :2:8) 23:56:55 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:138) 23:56:56 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:56:56 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:56:56 -flushq 23:56:57 Send queue flushed 23:57:06 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return 42.constructor.constructor('return this')")() 23:57:06 SyntaxError: Invalid or unexpected token 23:57:07 at eval (eval at (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:27), :1:2) 23:57:07 at .code (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:65:17) 23:57:08 at run (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:48:10) 23:57:08 fixed nvm... 23:57:09 at EventEmitter. (/home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:252:25) 23:57:09 at emitThree (events.js:116:13) 23:57:10 at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7) 23:57:11 at /home/ubuntu/workspace/ircbot.js:192:17 23:57:11 at Array.forEach (native) 23:57:12 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit). 23:57:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this')")() 23:57:25 (sorry evilvoid ) 23:57:34 -!- otherbot has joined. 23:57:45 lets hope 6.6.0 doesn't break anything 23:57:50 it shouldnt 23:57:51 -eval global.vm = require("vm"); // There, now it will work 23:57:51 { Script: [Function: ContextifyScript], 23:57:51 createScript: [Function], 23:57:52 createContext: [Function], 23:57:53 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this')")() 23:57:53 runInDebugContext: [Function], 23:57:54 runInContext: [Function], 23:57:54 runInNewContext: [Function], 23:57:55 runInThisContext: [Function], 23:57:55 -flush 23:57:56 isContext: [Function: isContext] } 23:57:56 "return this" won't help and won't depend on where the function comes from anyways. 23:57:56 -flushq 23:57:56 Send queue flushed 23:57:58 i already tested it jeffl 23:58:00 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this')")() 23:58:00 [Function] 23:58:03 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this')")()() 23:58:03 {} 23:58:51 evilvoid esoterically attempts to prove a point 23:59:11 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this.constructor.constructor(\'return this\')')")()() 23:59:11 [SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list] 23:59:19 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this.constructor.constructor(\"eturn this\")')")()() 23:59:19 [SyntaxError: Unexpected token this] 23:59:21 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this.constructor.constructor(\"return this\")')")()() 23:59:22 [Function] 23:59:35 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this.constructor.constructor(\"return this\")')")()()() 23:59:36 {} 23:59:43 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return JSON.stringify.constructor('return this.constructor.constructor(\"return process\")')")()()() 23:59:43 [ReferenceError: process is not defined] 2016-09-26: 00:00:37 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller")() 00:00:37 null 00:00:50 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.callee")() 00:00:50 undefined 00:01:02 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Object.keys(this)")() 00:01:02 [] 00:01:08 You need "arguments.callee" and not "Function.callee" 00:01:19 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee")() 00:01:19 [Function] 00:01:26 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee")().toString() 00:01:26 'function anonymous() {\nreturn arguments.callee\n}' 00:01:32 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee")()() 00:01:32 [Function] 00:01:38 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee")()().toString() 00:01:38 'function anonymous() {\nreturn arguments.callee\n}' 00:01:42 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.caller")() 00:01:42 undefined 00:01:54 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor")() 00:01:54 [Function: Function] 00:02:04 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor('return this')")() 00:02:04 [Function] 00:02:06 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor('return this')")()() 00:02:06 {} 00:02:11 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor('return this')()")() 00:02:11 {} 00:02:46 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return global") 00:02:46 [Function] 00:02:47 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return global")() 00:02:48 [ReferenceError: global is not defined] 00:03:15 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\";return this;")() 00:03:15 undefined 00:03:26 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\";return Function('return this');")() 00:03:27 [Function] 00:03:29 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\";return Function('return this');")()() 00:03:29 {} 00:03:32 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\";return Function('return this')();")() 00:03:32 {} 00:03:46 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\";return this.constructor('return this');")()() 00:03:46 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'constructor' of undefined] 00:03:58 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("this.constructor.constructor('return this');")()() 00:03:58 [TypeError: (intermediate value)(...) is not a function] 00:04:05 Note you can also change the code that runs inside of the sandbox by replacing "(x=>x.constructor.constructor)" with something else. 00:04:07 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("this.constructor.constructor('return this');")() 00:04:07 undefined 00:04:25 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("new this.constructor.constructor('return this');")() 00:04:25 undefined 00:04:31 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return new this.constructor.constructor('return this');")() 00:04:31 [Function] 00:04:34 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return new this.constructor.constructor('return this');")()() 00:04:34 {} 00:04:49 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (new this.constructor.constructor('return this'))();")() 00:04:49 {} 00:05:15 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))(""return (this.constructor.constructor('return (this.process.mainModule.constructor._load)')())"")() 00:05:15 [SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list] 00:05:20 (My purpose of doing that was just to show that the return value is the sandbox's Function and not the outside's Function, since the value passed is a primitive.) 00:05:32 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (this.constructor.constructor('return (this.process.mainModule.constructor._load)')())")() 00:05:32 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'mainModule' of undefined] 00:05:41 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (this.constructor.constructor('return (this)')())")() 00:05:41 {} 00:06:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:06:57 -!- heroux has joined. 00:07:19 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return ({}.constructor.constructor('return (this)')())")() 00:07:19 {} 00:09:26 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Object.keys(arguments)")() 00:09:26 [] 00:09:38 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.caller")() 00:09:38 undefined 00:10:04 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.caller")() 00:10:05 null 00:10:13 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee")() 00:10:14 [Function] 00:10:19 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.caller")() 00:10:19 null 00:10:41 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments")() 00:10:41 {} 00:10:43 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments")(1) 00:10:43 { '0': 1 } 00:10:44 [wiki] [[Al Dente]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49769&oldid=46227 * CatIsFluffy * (+72) fixed gap in spec 00:11:24 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.caller")() 00:11:24 undefined 00:12:32 [wiki] [[Al Dente]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49770&oldid=49769 * CatIsFluffy * (+62) Examples page link 00:14:19 what was the last message I sent? 00:17:30 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.caller?arguments.caller:arguments.callee()")() 00:17:30 [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] 00:17:55 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{new Error()}catch(e){return e}")() 00:17:55 undefined 00:18:09 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e}")() 00:18:10 [ReferenceError: x is not defined] 00:18:25 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.constructor.constructor}")() 00:18:25 [Function: Function] 00:18:32 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.constructor.constructor('return this')}")() 00:18:32 [Function] 00:18:35 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.constructor.constructor('return this')}")()() 00:18:35 {} 00:18:39 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.constructor.constructor('return this')()}")() 00:18:39 {} 00:18:49 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.stack}")() 00:19:03 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e}")() 00:19:03 [ReferenceError: x is not defined] 00:19:07 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return e.stack}")() 00:19:18 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("try{x.constructor}catch(e){return Object.keys(e)}")() 00:19:18 [] 00:19:31 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Error}")() 00:19:32 [SyntaxError: Unexpected token }] 00:19:35 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Error")() 00:19:35 { [Function: Error] 00:19:35 captureStackTrace: [Function: captureStackTrace], 00:19:36 stackTraceLimit: 10 } 00:19:51 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Error.constructor")() 00:19:51 [Function: Function] 00:22:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:23:40 If the code inside of the sandbox is not a arrow function but is a proper function then it may also leak "this"; you can specify the this value yourself (such as undefined) if called by Reflect.apply instead. 00:23:42 what I sent last? 00:24:27 The issue is that when you want to inject some helper functions 00:24:41 Like your own math things 00:25:56 Yes, I know. That is why I suggested things such as: sandbox.func1=vm.runInContext("(x=>y=>{ "use strict"; if(typeof y!=="number") throw new TypeError(); else return x(y);)")(my_math_function) for example (before executing any untrusted code in the sandbox) 00:26:23 Actually that is not quite right. Here it is: sandbox.func1=vm.runInContext("(x=>y=>{ "use strict"; if(typeof y!=="number") throw new TypeError(); else return x(y);)",sandbox)(func1); 00:26:27 sounds like what math.js did 00:26:40 I broke math.js 00:27:04 (Also the quotation matching is wrong of course) 00:27:47 -eval throw new TypeError(NaN) 00:27:47 [TypeError: NaN] 00:27:50 :D 00:27:52 oh btw, it works no 00:27:53 *now 00:28:03 the whole stacktrace doesn't get printed 'cause of updated nodejs 00:28:21 Just to ensure that func1 returns and/or throws only primitives, to make it more safe 00:32:16 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:33:42 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:34:06 -!- evilmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:34:39 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to evilmoon. 00:35:44 oom 00:36:14 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller?Function.caller:Function.calee()")() 00:36:14 [TypeError: Function.calee is not a function] 00:36:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller?Function.caller:Function.callee()")() 00:36:18 [TypeError: Function.callee is not a function] 00:36:23 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller?Function.caller:argument.callee()")() 00:36:23 [ReferenceError: argument is not defined] 00:36:26 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller?Function.caller:arguments.callee()")() 00:36:26 [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] 00:36:37 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return Function.caller?Function.caller:arguments.callee(1)")() 00:36:37 [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] 00:36:46 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments[0]?Function.caller:arguments.callee(1)")() 00:36:47 null 00:45:54 `unidecode Σ0o² 00:45:55 ​[U+03A3 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER SIGMA] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+00B2 SUPERSCRIPT TWO] 00:47:46 `unidecode ‮ 00:47:47 ​[U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE] 00:48:05 `unidecode 00:48:09 U+000F \ UTF-8: 0f UTF-16BE: 000f Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) 00:49:04 eviljeff: how do i type that? 00:49:11 evilmoon: idk 00:49:20 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("x=function(x){return this;}; return x()")() 00:49:20 { x: [Function] } 00:49:38 wow did i do it right? 00:49:41 ): 00:49:45 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("x=function(x){return this.constructor;}; return x()")() 00:49:45 [Function: Object] 00:49:50 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("x=function(x){return this;}; return x()")() 00:49:50 { x: [Function] } 00:50:08 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return !function(x){return this;}()")() 00:50:08 false 00:50:15 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this;})()")() 00:50:15 {} 00:51:14 -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,"wow did i do it? \u202D") 00:51:14 wow did i do it? ‭ 00:51:15 undefined 00:51:20 -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,"wow did i do it? \u000F") 00:51:20 wow did i do it? 00:51:21 undefined 00:51:23 ): 00:52:09 (Does anybody treat natural as {0, 1, 2, ...} and whole as {1, 2, ...}? Or is it only ever the other way around? 00:52:38 other way around 00:52:47 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (1,eval)('this')")() 00:52:47 {} 00:52:59 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\use strict"\"; return (1,eval)('this')")() 00:52:59 [SyntaxError: Unexpected token ILLEGAL] 00:53:12 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\"; return (1,eval)('this')")() 00:53:12 {} 00:53:14 -!- boily has joined. 00:53:22 helloily 00:53:34 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("\"use strict\"; return (1,eval)('global')")() 00:53:34 [ReferenceError: global is not defined] 00:55:58 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return uneval(this);})()")() 00:55:58 [ReferenceError: uneval is not defined] 00:56:05 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this;})()")() 00:56:05 {} 00:56:15 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("'use strict';return (function(x){return this;})()")() 00:56:15 undefined 00:56:56 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})('return this')()")() 00:56:56 [Function] 00:57:03 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})('return this')()()")() 00:57:03 undefined 00:57:08 evilmhelloon! 00:57:13 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})()('return this')")() 00:57:14 [Function] 00:57:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})()('return this')()")() 00:57:18 {} 00:57:25 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})()('return global')")() 00:57:26 [Function] 00:57:30 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})()('return global')()")() 00:57:30 [ReferenceError: global is not defined] 00:57:38 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(x){return this.constructor.constructor;})()('return this')()")() 00:57:38 {} 00:57:41 boily: dont mind evilvoid, he's trying to disprove zzo38, hes been at it for a hour now 00:58:01 Its difficult 00:58:35 All the exploits rely on getting an external object 00:59:18 i understand that 00:59:48 -pad HAI 1.2, VISIBLE "HAI BOILY, THIS IS LOLCODE", KTHXBYE 00:59:51 -lolr 00:59:51 HAI BOILY, THIS IS LOLCODE 01:01:24 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return aguments.callee.constructor.constructor")() 01:01:24 -!- Akaibu has joined. 01:01:24 [ReferenceError: aguments is not defined] 01:01:29 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor.constructor")() 01:01:30 [Function: Function] 01:01:37 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor.constructor('return this')")() 01:01:37 [Function] 01:01:40 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor.constructor('return this')()")() 01:01:40 {} 01:01:48 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee.constructor('return this')()")() 01:01:49 {} 01:02:17 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments.callee(Function('return this'))()")() 01:02:17 [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] 01:02:49 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return arguments[1]?arguments[0]:arguments.callee(Function('return this'),1)()")() 01:02:49 {} 01:03:13 probably safe 01:03:23 If any object is injected.... 01:05:33 evilvoid: I don't think zzo38 is unprovable hth 01:06:02 evilvoid: ill set it up for a JS sandbox then, you can poke at it more then 01:07:21 @ask zzo38 hezzo38. are you unprovable? 01:07:21 Consider it noted. 01:07:47 I think perhaps evilvoid is a bit confused about what this program is supposed to do 01:07:56 It isn't what I meant 01:08:12 ah 01:10:59 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:15:46 `wisdom 01:15:47 duck typing//Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. 01:16:04 had that one last time... 01:16:06 `wisdom 01:16:08 roujo//Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. He does not understand shell quoting. 01:16:24 . o O ( where *is* Roujo now? ) 01:16:47 `wisdom 01:16:49 the//the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure 01:16:54 `wisdom 01:16:55 adpoted//"Oh lord, we've adpoted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 01:17:03 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 01:17:07 `wisdom 01:17:08 YouTube changed! 01:17:09 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯//¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:17:22 `wisdom 01:17:23 endofunctor//Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 01:17:30 `wisdom 01:17:32 ping//Ping is a Peking Duck H4XX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. 01:18:00 `wisdom 01:18:01 cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte". 01:18:04 `wisdom 01:18:06 styrofoam//styrofoam is Taneb's only weakness. 01:18:14 `wisdom 01:18:15 bugbear//A bugbear is a teddy bear that you can explain your bugs to. 01:19:49 `wisdom 01:19:50 aha//aha would be a helpful acronym, but has a shedding problem. 01:20:04 `wisdom 01:20:05 ​@//@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. 01:20:10 `wisdom 01:20:13 relrod//A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. 01:20:20 `wisdom 01:20:21 tile shuffling//Tile shuffve games. ly addictie basis of many highling is th 01:20:29 `wisdom 01:20:30 friendship//friendship wisdom 01:20:48 `wisdom 01:20:49 doodad//Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. 01:20:55 `wisdom 01:20:57 welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.) 01:21:28 `wisdom 01:21:30 time cube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wro 01:22:02 `wisdom 01:22:04 9//9 is a free smalltalk. 01:22:09 `wisdom 01:22:11 diet//People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 01:22:18 `wisdom 01:22:20 anana//ananas is the real pineapple. 01:22:35 `wisdom 01:22:37 weather//lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK 01:22:53 @where weather 01:22:53 ?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show 01:22:55 @where weather 01:22:55 ?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show 01:22:58 @where weather 1 01:22:58 ?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show 01:23:04 `wisdom 01:23:06 ism//Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism". 01:23:35 `wisdom 01:23:36 page//The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it. 01:23:42 `wisdom 01:23:43 kinder surprise//Kinder Surprise is an addictive drug marketed for children so dangerous it's banned at the federal level. 01:24:05 `wisdom 01:24:06 russell's teapot//Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show? 01:24:28 `wisdom 01:24:29 spice girls//The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. 01:24:36 `wisdom 01:24:37 utumno//Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. 01:24:43 `wisdom 01:24:44 ciol//ciol is a language designed by moon_, it started as a scheme to annoy colleagues by making a programming language that has insults as commands. 01:24:53 `wisdom 01:24:54 blsq//See: Burlesque 01:24:57 `wisdom 01:24:58 york//York used to be known as Amsterdam. 01:25:07 `wisdom 01:25:08 dinosaur//Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. 01:25:24 `wisdom 01:25:25 ghost//A ghost is an unintelligent undead, similar to the skeleton but harder to create, because it's lacking the rest of the body. 01:25:33 `wisdom 01:25:35 itym//itym "i think you mean" hth 01:25:45 `wisdom 01:25:46 l//L is far too short to be a village in Wales. 01:25:57 `? hth 01:25:58 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 01:30:36 `? youtube 01:30:37 youtube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:30:41 :o 01:30:45 `? google 01:30:46 Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. 01:31:09 `? facebook 01:31:10 Facebook is Taneb's face collection. 01:31:31 `? twitter 01:31:32 Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). 01:31:38 `? irc 01:31:39 IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays. 01:32:02 `? snapchat 01:32:03 snapchat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:32:06 `? reddit 01:32:07 reddit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:32:14 `? freenode 01:32:15 freenode? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:32:19 :O 01:32:42 boily: pls fix :O 01:32:56 hackego doesnt know what freenode is 01:34:44 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("returrn (function(){return this})()")() 01:34:44 [ReferenceError: returrn is not defined] 01:34:53 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42))("return (function(){return this})()")() 01:34:53 {} 01:34:55 int-e: I sent a pull request to Gregor. It remains to be seen whether that will actually do anything. 01:35:26 zzo38: mind re-explaining what your codes _does_ to evilvoid? i dunno if he understands 01:35:46 It creates a new context that is empty 01:36:01 `le/rn freenode/The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? 01:36:04 Learned «freenode» 01:36:15 Running a code that returns the constructor.constructor of 42 01:36:22 -eval new (vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))({}))("return (function(){return this})()")() 01:36:22 { global: [Circular], 01:36:23 process: 01:36:23 process { 01:36:24 title: 'node', 01:36:25 version: 'v4.5.0', 01:36:25 moduleLoadList: 01:36:26 [ 'Binding contextify', 01:36:27 'Binding natives', 01:36:27 -flushq 01:36:28 Send queue flushed 01:36:43 nice one iovoid 01:36:45 boily: Late 2002. 01:36:46 And because 42 is a primitive... 01:36:49 Yes, there you have leaked the "this" because you are not doing what it is supposed to do 01:36:59 ^ 01:37:07 It demonstrates that the result of vm.runInContext("(x=>x.constructor.constructor)",vm.createContext(Object.create(null)))(42) is not the same Function object; if you write ==Function then it will be false. Did you even try that? 01:37:11 The question is how to inject forgein data safely 01:37:19 ^ 01:37:30 Because, the value x is a primitive so the conversion to an object occurs inside of the sandbox. 01:37:37 the answer is: you really cant. 01:37:38 ^ 01:37:42 ^ 01:37:45 If you replace 42 with {} then it will be the object from outside of the sandbox. 01:37:54 Math.js cant have a sandbox then 01:38:11 And sandboxes will get boring 01:39:09 MathJS dies because of f.constructor for example 01:39:10 You can inject foreign data before executing any untrusted code, if they are primitives rather than objects (functions are also objects). 01:39:22 How is f defined in MathJS anyways? 01:39:41 boily: (In other words, we should have a sesquidecennial celebration late 2017.) 01:39:42 MathJS does some syntax rewriting 01:39:53 It wraps what you provided in another function 01:39:57 Also, ensure that the sandbox object is created without a prototype! (This is what Object.create(null) means; it means to create an object with no prototype) 01:40:14 Syntax rewriting won't help. 01:40:36 It does it just to make it a "more mathematic" syntax 01:40:39 You need to do it properly. 01:40:41 evilvoid: study it a little more, it actually compiles the code into a node based syntax. 01:40:52 and generates JS from that 01:40:52 ^ 01:41:05 It might do syntax rewriting for that reason, but syntax rewriting will not be sufficient to be safe. 01:41:25 for example, (x+1)+6 becomes a syntax tree 01:41:25 you can always eval(String.fromCharCode(stuff)) 01:41:54 Yes, and that is why syntax rewriting is not sufficient. 01:42:28 fizzie: fizziello. that long?!? 01:42:42 not giving ANYTHING makes features useless 01:42:50 (I also made a TeX sandbox that does not attempt to validate the input or anything like that; security is done by using a custom format file instead. This requires One True TeX and will not work with pdfTeX or LaTeX or other variants.) 01:43:24 like auth0 uses "web containers" (idk in deep how that works) for evaling user code like to rewrite users 01:43:57 boily: http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2002-q4 and look up "Esolang IRC channel". 01:44:01 You can give stuff; just make sure you do it properly! Such as by wrapping functions and that kind of stuff 01:44:03 Also you cant put a timeout 01:44:09 Use proxies if necessary. 01:44:12 Since execution is outside ssandbox 01:44:25 * boily is touching history 01:44:59 You could use a separate process and communicate with signals if you want to do timeouts 01:45:08 fizzie: speaking of history, have you updated the fizziegraphs lately? 01:45:24 boily: Not in a long, long time. 01:45:39 I could try to figure out how to do it, and see if the scripts even still work. 01:46:38 updating target 2, days 2015-09-11 ... 2016-09-24 01:46:53 Heh, almost exactly a year has passed. 01:47:16 -!- otherbot has changed nick to evilrbot. 01:47:16 -!- evilator has joined. 01:47:45 If you write vm.createContext({}) then it is unsafe because it can take values from the outside's Object.prototype, but with Object.create(null) it has no prototype, so that part is undone at least. 01:47:46 my god. too. much. evil 01:48:06 [wiki] [[Al Dente]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49771&oldid=49770 * CatIsFluffy * (+4) fixed bug in EBNF allowing for (a or b).c 01:48:16 boily: I should probably readjust the "channel regulars" whitelist some day, to account for changes. 01:49:10 If f is a function brought into the sandbox like how I suggested (wrapping it inside of a function created in the sandbox, by creating a function that returns a function also inside of the sandbox), then it will be the function inside of the sandbox and not outside. Stuff outside of the definition of that function cannot access its local variables. 01:49:34 Its almost impossible to give values 01:50:00 SInce you can constructor them to get true Function(tm) 01:50:03 I think someone else has also made up a sandbox out of proxies. 01:50:25 This is the first safe sandbox I see 01:51:02 and all that was needed was a single #esoteric memeber and a one liner 01:51:09 lol 01:51:28 Well, the sandbox/sandcastle guys wasted their time 01:51:57 +1 01:52:03 The way I did it, you can't "constructor them to get true Function(tm)", I think. 01:52:26 (But your tests were doing it wrong; not the way I meant) 01:52:49 -!- Gregor has joined. 01:52:53 What you did is a empty context, which returns a function scoped to the sandbox 01:53:01 Well, scoped is not the correct word 01:53:05 Its like bound to it 01:53:08 Hello I sometimes exist 01:53:15 fizzie: is that the actual gregor?:P bcause the chmod 000/0000 / -R issue needs fixed 01:53:18 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest77839. 01:53:48 Yup thats gregor. hi mr person i've never met who wrote HackEgo 01:53:51 I assume it is, though the nickserv-induced nickname change is a little amusing. 01:53:58 -!- Guest77839 has changed nick to Gregor. 01:54:12 holy fungot! Gregor is alive! 01:54:13 boily: and well, ' british accent' could include cockney, yorkshire, scots, or welsh, technically. it was some slang 01:54:18 Suffice it to say I haven't logged in in... a while. 01:54:32 I merged the PR, now I just have to remember where HackEgo is hosted :) 01:54:41 "esolangs.org" is a good alias. 01:54:45 evilvoid: Yes, it is, and that is its working. 01:54:52 good night all' 01:55:06 evilmoonne nuit! 01:56:51 `ls 01:56:53 bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 01:57:17 Good bug :) 01:57:22 Clever :) 01:57:31 I almost finished typing the next session of level20.tex but now I must go for a while and later tonight I will finished writing it, and annouce it 01:57:33 OK 01:57:40 Do you like this? 01:57:46 `ls \ 01:57:47 ls: cannot access \: No such file or directory 01:57:49 `ls / 01:57:50 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 01:58:13 Can I try to kill it? 01:58:29 `init 1 01:58:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: init: not found 01:58:42 I like how everybody tries to break it by assuming they have root access. 01:58:53 `cat ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 01:58:54 cat: ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: No such file or directory 01:59:00 `cat /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 01:59:01 ​#!/bin/bash \ ulimit -f 10240 \ ulimit -l 0 \ ulimit -u 128 \ exec -- "$@" 01:59:15 `whoami 01:59:16 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 01:59:22 `rm ~ 01:59:23 rm: cannot remove `~': No such file or directory 01:59:28 `rm /home/hackbot 01:59:29 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot': Is a directory 01:59:33 `rm -R /home/hackbot 01:59:34 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 01:59:37 Gregor: There was also something else a little more elaborate related to making a directory called "canary.orig", which even now is causing every `revert to print out "rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory", but it's mostly just a cosmetic issue. 01:59:49 `rm --recursive /home/hackbot 01:59:49 rm: unrecognized option '--recursive /home/hackbot' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 01:59:57 `rm --help 01:59:57 Usage: rm [OPTION]... FILE... \ Remove (unlink) the FILE(s). \ \ -f, --force ignore nonexistent files, never prompt \ -i prompt before every removal \ -I prompt once before removing more than three files, or \ when removing recursively. Less intrusive than -i, \ 02:00:06 -!- evilmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:00:12 fizzie: Hah, that's amusing. That's because of how hg does things :) 02:00:23 `which rm 02:00:24 ​/bin/rm 02:00:39 `cat /dev/random 02:00:48 `echo hi 02:00:49 hi 02:00:59 `ls /dev 02:01:00 agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ 02:01:03 Gregor: And someone ran a "rm everything" that wasn't caught by the canary, because in the 30 seconds it only managed to remove /hackenv/bin/ and few other things, but not the canary, which was then considered a valid commit. Though that was easy enough to revert. 02:01:10 No output. 02:01:14 `cat /dev/port 02:01:15 cat: /dev/port: Permission denied 02:01:19 `cat /dev/* 02:01:20 cat: /dev/*: No such file or directory 02:01:26 `cat /dev/ram 02:01:27 cat: /dev/ram: Permission denied 02:01:31 `cat /dev/fs 02:01:32 cat: /dev/fs: No such file or directory 02:01:32 `cat /dev/fd 02:01:33 cat: /dev/fd: Is a directory 02:01:38 `ls /dev/fd 02:01:39 0 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 02:01:41 `cat /dev/fd/1 02:01:49 `cat /dev/fd/* 02:01:50 cat: /dev/fd/*: No such file or directory 02:02:01 `cat /dev/fd/{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8} 02:02:02 cat: /dev/fd/{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8}: No such file or directory 02:02:05 `cat /dev/fd/0 02:02:12 No output. 02:02:26 fizzie: Yeah, not much that can be done about that. 02:02:27 `cat /dev/full 02:02:28 ​........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 02:02:37 No output. 02:02:47 `cat /dev/loop0 02:02:48 cat: /dev/loop0: Permission denied 02:03:11 `ls ~ 02:03:12 ls: cannot access ~: No such file or directory 02:03:14 `ls /home 02:03:15 hackbot 02:03:18 `ls /home/hackbot 02:03:19 hackbot.hg 02:03:27 `rm /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg 02:03:28 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg': Is a directory 02:03:34 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hf 02:03:35 ls: cannot access /home/hackbot/hackbot.hf: No such file or directory 02:03:35 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg 02:03:36 multibot_cmds 02:03:42 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds 02:03:43 lib 02:03:44 boily: https://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/ is up to date. 02:03:47 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib 02:03:48 fetch \ limits \ revert \ sandbox 02:03:54 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox 02:03:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox 02:03:57 `thanks fizzie 02:03:58 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 02:03:59 Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. 02:03:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 02:04:05 `echo hi > /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 02:04:06 hi > /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 02:04:19 `rm /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 02:04:20 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits': Read-only file system 02:04:35 `chmod 000 -R / 02:04:37 chmod: missing operand after `000 -R /' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:04:46 `chmod -R 0000 / 02:04:47 chmod: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:04:51 `chmod --help 02:04:52 Usage: chmod [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE... \ or: chmod [OPTION]... OCTAL-MODE FILE... \ or: chmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE... \ Change the mode of each FILE to MODE. \ \ -c, --changes like verbose but report only when a change is made \ --no-preserve-root do not treat `/' specially (the default) \ --pr 02:05:02 boily: Hm. The javascripty stuff seems to have borked. I'll try to give it a fix. 02:05:12 `chmod --help | more 02:05:13 chmod: unrecognized option '--help | more' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:05:31 `chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive / 02:05:32 chmod: unrecognized option '--no-preserve-root --recursive /' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:05:37 `chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 / 02:05:38 chmod: unrecognized option '--no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 /' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:05:47 boily: (Oh, it's just a 'http' link to a CDN'd jquery.) 02:05:59 `chmod -R -x /bin 02:06:02 chmod: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 02:06:14 To do shell command you need `` or ``` at front with a space after the `` or ``` 02:06:24 Otherwise it is treat as one argument including spaces 02:06:31 `` chmod -R -x /bin 02:06:32 chmod: changing permissions of `/bin': Read-only file system \ chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/gzip': Read-only file system \ chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/ln': Read-only file system \ chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/tar': Read-only file system \ chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/vdir': Read-only file system \ chmod: changing pe 02:06:41 `` chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 / 02:07:08 fizzie: Blocage du chargement du contenu mixte actif (mixed active content) « http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.9.0/jquery.min.js » 02:07:13 chmod: changing permissions of `/': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4/features': Operation not permitted \ 02:07:24 `` echo hi 02:07:24 hi 02:07:29 `` chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 /home 02:07:30 chmod: changing permissions of `/home': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/home/hackbot': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permission 02:07:39 `` chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 / & 02:07:46 `` chmod --no-preserve-root --recursive 0000 / & echo hi 02:07:47 No output. 02:07:53 boily: Should be okay now. 02:08:10 chmod: changing permissions of `/': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4': Operation not permitted \ chmod: changing permissions of `/sys/fs/ext4/features': Operation not permitted \ 02:08:31 `` mount 02:08:32 none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host 02:08:41 fizzie: it works! 02:08:44 (The difference between `` and ``` is the locale setting.) 02:09:08 Seems safe 02:09:19 RO everything is nice 02:09:30 `logout 02:09:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logout: not found 02:09:34 `exit 02:09:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: exit: not found 02:09:41 `ls /bin 02:09:43 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ 02:09:55 `` ls /bin | grep init 02:09:56 No output. 02:09:59 `` ls /bin | grep shut 02:10:00 No output. 02:10:04 `` ls /bin | grep log 02:10:05 login 02:10:09 `` ls /bin | grep exit 02:10:10 No output. 02:10:16 `` ls /bin | grep re 02:10:17 bzegrep \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2recover \ bzmore \ egrep \ fgrep \ grep \ more \ readlink \ uncompress \ zegrep \ zfgrep \ zgrep \ zmore 02:10:28 `danddreclist 83 02:10:30 danddreclist 83: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 02:10:31 `` echo hi | more 02:10:32 hi 02:10:38 (I am earlier than I expected.) 02:10:40 `` cat /dev/full | more 02:10:56 `` ls /bin | grep base 02:11:03 Out of memory! 02:11:03 No output. 02:11:07 `` ls /bin | grep base 02:11:08 No output. 02:11:08 Do you like this? 02:11:12 `` cat /dev/full | more 02:11:15 `` cat /dev/full 02:11:20 OOM'd 02:11:39 Well, OOM is something I guess. Like a DoS 02:11:51 Out of memory! 02:11:51 No output. 02:12:00 `` ls /dev 02:12:01 agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ 02:12:04 `` bash 02:12:22 `` bash -e "cat /dev/*" 02:12:23 bash: cat /dev/*: No such file or directory 02:12:35 bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ bash-4.2$ 02:12:57 `` sudo whoami 02:12:58 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: sudo: command not found 02:13:08 `` ls /hackenv/bin 02:13:10 ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ 02:13:26 `` 1 02:13:28 1/0: 02:13:34 `` 2017 02:13:35 No output. 02:13:37 `` 2016 02:13:38 Hello, world! 02:13:47 `` ! 02:13:48 No output. 02:13:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:13:52 `` ? 02:13:53 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:13:56 `` ?? 02:13:57 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: hw: command not found 02:14:02 :( 02:14:21 `?? ??? 02:14:22 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 02:14:29 Neither do I. 02:14:46 `` ?? hi 02:14:47 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: hw: command not found 02:14:50 `` ?? ??? 02:14:51 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: hw: command not found 02:14:56 `?? ??? 02:14:57 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 02:15:01 `?? 02:15:02 I have nothing to tell you. 02:15:04 `?? hi 02:15:05 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 02:15:17 `` cat /hackenv/bin/?? 02:15:18 ​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooooodl \ if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "I have nothing to tell you.";fi;f="tmflry/$(echo "$1" | lowercase)";if [ -h "$f" ];then exec tomfoolery `readlink "$f" | sed 's/^tmflry\///'`;fi;if [ -x "$f" ];then exec bash "$f";fi;if [ -r "$f" ];then exec cat "$f";fi;echo "I must confess, I kn 02:16:02 boily: Incidentally, there's a bit of timezone mishap I should try to retroactively correct, which means all my timestamps were off by two hours for a bit over two months in the start of 2015. You can see this by looking at the "presence of time" bitmaps for someone regular, like boily; there's a temporary shift around that time. 02:17:58 yeah, I think I'm the regularest regular for the time of day I'm active here... 02:18:26 oerjan is diagonally active. 02:20:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOLOMORPHIC CHICKEN). 02:23:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:53:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:03:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TehFlaminTaco * New user account 03:28:12 I seem to have accidentally started constructing a parser 03:28:58 (and evaluator) 03:29:01 It can currently detect naturals expressed as S*0, integers expressed as -?nat, and can add two naturals together. Whoops. 03:43:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:05:14 -!- keemyb has joined. 04:23:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:31:37 <\oren\> ISRO are going to launch the SCATSAT soon 04:31:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlhLews6CAI 04:32:50 -!- eviljeff has changed nick to `j. 04:32:50 -!- `j has changed nick to 32NAB4T1V. 04:33:21 <32NAB4T1V> /anick is useful 04:34:49 -!- 32NAB4T1V has changed nick to eviljeff. 04:36:58 -!- eviljeff has changed nick to evilfl35. 04:43:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:52:35 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:08:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:28:05 -!- evilrbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:45:23 \oren\: It took me a few seconds to realize that guy was speaking English 05:49:30 Cale: What do you think of the notation d^2y/dx^2? 05:52:26 -!- otherbot has joined. 05:53:11 -!- otherbot has changed nick to evilrbot. 06:09:11 -!- tuttobene has joined. 06:11:42 -!- MDead has joined. 06:12:59 Among they who acknowledge the shortcommings of the Obj Oriented paradigm, which other paradigm is seen as "the new wave", so to speak? 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https://arin.ga/SFxrfv/raw 07:31:42 zzo38: But d(dx)/dx^2 = 0, right? 07:31:51 almost the same code works fine with vector https://arin.ga/NZCIsJ/raw 07:32:27 shachaf: I don't know; I haven't tried to figure out 07:33:24 But, second derivative can be d(dy/dx)/dx even though the notation d^2y/dx^2 is used but that notation is wrong. 07:33:38 I don't think that notation is wrong. 07:33:54 I used to think it was odd and arbitrary but now I'm thinking it's actually good. 07:34:14 Why do you say it's wrong? 07:35:55 Because d^2y/dx^2 doesn't equal d(dy/dx)/dx, and also I saw in another book (by Penrose) that it is wrong! 07:36:09 Which book? 07:36:17 And I think it does equal d(dy/dx)/dx 07:36:55 Here: 07:37:13 d(dy/dx)/dx = (dx d(dy) - dy d(dx))/(dx^3) 07:37:35 = d(dy)/dx^2 - dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 07:37:52 And I think d(dx)/dx^2 = 0 07:38:13 I can say that it's because the second derivative of x with respect to x is 0, but that's circular. :-) 07:39:15 shocking 07:44:22 but then (dy/dx)^2 = dy^2/dx^2 = (d^2y/dy^2) / (d^2y/dx^2) = 0 whenever d^2y/dx^2 /= 0 checkmate atheists 07:45:16 wait 07:45:29 the last one is in the wrong order 07:45:55 so it's actually infinity hth 07:50:44 -!- digin4 has joined. 07:51:20 are you saying (dy/dx)^2 = (dy^2/dx^2) = (1/dx^2)/(1/dy^2) = (d^2y/dx^2)/(d^2y/dy^2) = (d^2y/dx^2)/0 07:51:50 yes hth 07:51:58 good counterexample oerjan++ tdh 07:52:52 So maybe d(dx)/dx^2 isn't 0? 07:54:19 Really, it couldn't be 0, that would make this whole thing break. 07:54:42 well d^2x/dx^2 is supposedly 0. 07:55:23 If it's the second derivative it would have to be. 07:55:46 Let's see. One way to make this whole thing work is to parameterize everything in terms of t, right? 07:56:05 MAYBE 07:56:13 So dy/dx = D_t(y)/D_t(x) 07:56:48 Where D_t(e) means what people usually mean by de/dt 07:57:35 Certainly D_t(y)/D_t(x) = D_x(y), right? 07:58:35 So the second derivative is D_t(D_t(y)/D_t(x))/D_t(x) 07:58:39 i think the trouble may be simply that second derivatives in this notation don't behave sensibly wrt changes of variables. 07:58:47 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 07:58:49 Well, it's really just what I wrote earlier except with a more complicated symbol for d. 07:58:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:58:52 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 07:59:06 zzo38: Which book does Penrose pen his objection in? 07:59:49 or put differently, dy^2/dx^2, the thing you need to change variables for second derivatives, is not (dy/dx)^2 where dy/dx is the thing you need for first derivatives. 07:59:50 oerjan: that would be scow though 08:00:29 if (dy/dx) (dy/dx) isn't (dy dy)/(dx dx) then this notation is broken 08:00:51 yep 08:01:23 basically because first and second derivatives have no simply scaling correspondence. 08:01:56 but parameterize it in terms of t. certainly (dy/dt)/(dx/dt) * (dy/dt)/(dx/dt) = ((dy/dt)(dy/dt))/((dx/dt)(dx/dt)) 08:01:59 right? 08:02:38 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:03:36 well sure, everything works nice as long as you're only dealing with first derivatives. 08:03:40 *nicely 08:03:46 *as long as 08:04:03 so you're not objective to (dy/dx)^2 = (dy^2/dx^2) 08:04:08 objecting 08:04:41 i'm objecting that there are two different senses of dy^2/dx^2 which don't scale in the same way. 08:05:29 well, the real problem here isn't with squaring dy or any of that, it's with the connection to d^2y 08:05:52 -!- ybden has joined. 08:05:52 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 08:06:02 well one of the senses is _defined_ by that connection, of course. 08:06:11 right 08:06:21 -!- ybden has joined. 08:06:22 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 08:06:56 -!- ybden has joined. 08:06:57 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 08:07:07 if this notation works, then by definition if y = f(x) then d^2y/dx^2 = f''(x) 08:07:09 right? 08:07:21 duh 08:07:32 so d^2y = f''(x) dx^2 08:07:45 but if f(x) = x, that means d^2y = 0 08:08:03 shachaf: Penrose wrote it in a footnote in Road to Reality (not a part of the main text). 08:08:38 -!- ybden has joined. 08:08:38 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 08:09:27 that seems problematic 08:09:36 or is it? 08:09:43 -!- ybden has joined. 08:09:43 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood). 08:10:24 ybden is sure rejoining a lot 08:10:53 zzo38: Oh, I have a copy of that book, I think. Do you remember which footnote? 08:12:28 No I do not remember 08:13:23 Actually it doesn't seem problematic. 08:13:40 If dy = 0, that means dy is constant. 08:13:46 Er, y is constant. 08:14:01 So if d(dy) = 0, that means dy is constant. 08:14:26 Yes. 08:14:37 I know that. 08:14:49 (They even say so in the book.) 08:14:59 I know, I'm looking at the book. 08:19:14 zzo38: So what's d(dy/dx)? 08:19:58 -!- mtve has joined. 08:20:05 I guess it's what I said above: (dx d(dy) - dy d(dx))/dx^2 08:21:01 = d(dy)/dx - dy/dx d(dx)/dx 08:23:24 -!- Robdgreat_ has changed nick to Robdgreat. 08:24:26 So d(dy/dx)/dx = d(dy)/dx^2 - dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 08:24:37 So what's that second part? Not 0? 08:26:25 put in a different way, in d^2 / dx^2 the two dx'es come from different scopes, and if there's a dy/dx have to be the same in the two scopes. 08:26:25 zzo38: That's certainly in contradiction with what the author says about differential forms etc. 08:26:41 *it doesn't have 08:27:24 I know, but apparently a 1-form or whatever is a special case or something like that? 08:27:25 oerjan: This is probably related to how if you have f : U^n -> U^m, D^2f : U^n -> (U^n -o (U^n -o U^m))? 08:27:42 shachaf: i'm not in a state of mind to even parse that at the moment. 08:27:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:27:57 oerjan: The second derivative at a point is a bilinear map. 08:27:58 Right? 08:28:14 s/U/R/g 08:28:18 i'm also not in a state of mind to understand the concept hth 08:28:38 oerjan: Well, if f : R^n -> R^m, then Df : R^n -> (R^n -o R^m) 08:28:38 Right? 08:28:45 or body. this neck is killing me. 08:29:06 At each point it gives you a linear approximation of f around that point. 08:29:22 shachaf: please consider me just a rubber duck at this point hth 08:29:30 `? oerjan 08:29:31 Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 08:29:55 `slwd oerjan//s#immoritus#rubber duck# 08:29:57 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord rubber duck oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 08:51:41 `wisdom icbm 08:51:43 icbm/icbm//ICBM/ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently classified. 08:51:51 wat 08:52:14 `howg icbm/icbm 08:52:16 ​ revert 942e964c81c1 \ ` chmod 777 / -R \ sedlast s/unknown/classified/ \ learn ICBM/ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently unknown. 08:52:52 did boily really mean to do that 08:53:15 `` find -name '*icbm*' wisdom 08:53:16 find: paths must precede expression: wisdom \ Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [-Olevel] [-D help|tree|search|stat|rates|opt|exec] [path...] [expression] 08:53:28 `` find wisdom -name '*icbm*' 08:53:29 wisdom/icbm \ wisdom/icbm/icbm 08:54:30 `` cd wisdom; mv icbm icbm'; mv icbm'/* .; rmdir icbm' 08:54:30 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 08:54:44 `` cd wisdom; mv icbm icbm_; mv icbm_/* .; rmdir icbm_ 08:54:47 No output. 08:54:52 `? icbm 08:54:53 ICBM/ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently classified. 08:55:23 `slwd icbm//s,.*/,, 08:55:25 wisdom/icbm//ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently classified. 08:56:42 `` cd wisdom; ls -d */ 08:56:44 ​¯\_(ツ)_/ \ le/ \ ¯\(°_o)/ \ ¯\(°​_o)/ 09:00:19 `? music 09:00:20 The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. 09:00:34 i'm not sure what int-e intended here. 09:01:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:15 @tell int-e please explain why `? music does not contain its own keyword twh 09:02:15 Consider it noted. 09:02:54 @tell int-e oh, never mind. 09:02:55 Consider it noted. 09:03:07 and i even read that book. 09:03:27 also, own. 09:05:05 -!- carado has joined. 09:06:15 `wisdom cacophony 09:06:17 the most hideous cacophony in g minor//The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor (Op. -3) is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Bach and/or Taneb 09:07:03 `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/*cacophony\ in* 09:07:06 No output. 09:07:09 `wisdom cacophony 09:07:10 the most hideous cacophony in g minor//The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor (Op. -3) is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Bach and/or Taneb. 09:07:37 of course, it's really Bach. 09:08:45 Why won't anyone to help me making Node.js addons? 09:09:29 `` sed -i 's/Op./BWV/' wisdom/*cacophony\ in* 09:09:32 No output. 09:09:36 `wisdom cacophony 09:09:37 the most hideous cacophony in g minor//The Most Hideous Cacophony in G Minor (BWV -3) is a musical work often incorrectly attributed to Bach and/or Taneb. 09:09:48 oh wait 09:09:55 `revert 09:10:16 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 09:11:32 `? turmeric 09:11:35 turmeric? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:18:22 `ls 09:18:23 bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 09:18:43 `culprits candide 09:18:50 fizzie 09:18:59 `doag candide 09:19:02 2016-07-10 ` bash ./configure 09:19:26 `file candide 09:19:26 candide: Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable 09:19:32 `cat candide 09:19:32 ​#!/bin/bash \ # compile c from stdin \ # candide, kinda \ \ readinput () { \ while read -r -e || { printf %s "$REPLY"; false; } ; do \ printf '%s\n' "$REPLY" \ done \ } \ \ c=$(readinput) \ if ! [[ $c ]] || ! out=$(mktemp); then \ echo Error >&2 \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ # if you don't write 'main' it assumes that you're writing a full pr 09:19:40 kindide 09:19:43 `rm candide 09:19:45 kindida 09:19:45 No output. 09:20:22 `file hw 09:20:23 hw: directory 09:20:26 `ls hw 09:20:27 brainfuck \ c \ chef \ haskell \ intercal \ java \ pascal \ perl \ perl6 \ php \ python \ shakespeare 09:20:44 `doag hw 09:20:46 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-05-14 ` echo $\'say\\tQ[@A`DO world!]~|\' > hw/perl6 \ 2016-05-14 ` echo Couldn\\\'t match type \\`IO \\(\\)\\\' with \\`[Char]\\\' > hw/haskell \ 2016-05-14 ` echo Just another Perl hacker, > hw/perl \ 2016-05-14 ` echo Just 09:21:22 oh right 09:21:40 How can you convert a C++ header file into a C header file with all of the correct mangled names? 09:22:08 `file ps 09:22:09 ps: ASCII text 09:22:11 Why do you want to do that? 09:22:12 `cat ps 09:22:13 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 1.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 10:18 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 10:18 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 10:18 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? 09:22:16 `rm ps 09:22:18 No output. 09:22:23 oerjan: i thought you retired 09:22:32 janitoerjan 09:22:39 So that you can call a C++ code from a C code 09:22:46 OF COURSE I'M RETIRED. I'M FINE. WHERE ARE MY GOLF CLUBS... 09:22:48 zzo38: Why not export unmangled names? 09:23:21 -!- tuttobene has quit. 09:24:25 Because the existing program does not do that. 09:24:57 Ah, I see. 09:25:20 I would prefer to write a C++ wrapper that exports C functions, and compile it with a C++ compiler. 09:26:12 I don't want to; I want to write the code in C which can call exported C++ functions (including overloaded and classes and all of that stuff) from a C code. 09:26:36 -!- ybden has joined. 09:27:04 oerjan: I think I was supposed to move that thing into bin, but then didn't actually finish making it accept input from the command line, or something. 09:27:18 ah. 09:27:27 . o O ( this channel has too many evil* people ) 09:27:59 Specifically I want to be able to use the Node.js headers including v8 and nan, directly from a C code. 09:28:07 Also, the web repository browser seems to have broken down. :/ 09:28:18 Why? 09:28:54 fizzie: works for me 09:28:55 Also, the C++ codes are clang but I want to write the C code with GCC. 09:29:04 oerjan: Yes, because I just fixed it. 09:29:14 aha 09:29:32 smashing 09:30:08 Is smashing the opposite of shocking? 09:30:22 probably. 09:30:37 `? shocking 09:30:38 shocking? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:30:39 shocking 09:30:43 The permissions patch I made just enforces u+rwx on the /hackenv directory, which is enough to keep the bot from breaking, but the repo-browser runs as a different user and therefore needs a+x on /hackenv to reach /hackenv/.hg to read the repo. 09:30:49 Also it can be use even if different compilers have different name mangling schemes. 09:31:20 oh someone managed to break it? 09:31:22 zzo38: If different compilers have different name mangling schemes, then your only hope is to use a C++ compiler, isn't it? 09:31:44 I was hoping that `lowg would log all the changes to wisdom 09:32:41 wat 09:33:05 oerjan: Yes, turns out if you set the permissions of /hackenv (which is read-write in the sandbox) to 0, it goes (well, used to go) to a mode where nothing works because the hg commands can't access the .hg subdirectory, requiring manual intervention. 09:33:58 fizzie: doesn't `revert still work? 09:34:07 shachaf: If it is converted into a C header file instead of C++ then it won't matter after it has been converted, because it uses the name-mangling scheme of the converter. 09:35:01 oerjan: No -- it does "work" in the sense that it attempts to execute the commands (since that happens outside the sandbox), but the 'hg revert' it uses just fails. 09:35:34 fizzie: i somehow didn't think the internal HackEgo commands accessed .hg through /hackenv ... 09:35:57 iirc .hg wasn't even always inside it... 09:36:07 maybe i remember wrong. 09:36:16 It's always been a subdirectory the times I've been playing with it. 09:37:12 And yeah, from the internal command's perspective it's not /hackenv, it's /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env, but a chmod on /hackenv in the sandbox translates directly to a chmod on that, since it's mounted read-write. 09:40:06 @tell int-e moon__: I can see it's a directory, but I wonder why it's not in the repo <-- i'm guessing it's a `revert bug again. 09:40:06 Consider it noted. 09:44:54 `ls 09:44:55 bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 09:45:07 `file theorems 09:45:07 theorems: directory 09:45:10 `ls theorems 09:45:11 No output. 09:45:17 `rmdir theorems 09:45:18 No output. 09:45:21 `doag theorems 09:45:22 No output. 09:45:32 wat 09:45:34 `culprits theorems 09:45:36 No output. 09:45:57 `culprits tmflry 09:45:59 fizzie evilipse zgrep zgrep zgrep rdococ zgrep zgrep zgrep hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] ais523 hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] izabera hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] oren \ oren \ zgrep zgrep zgrep zgrep zgrep oerjan oerjan oerjan zgrep zgr 09:45:59 Oh, hg doesn't track directories. 09:46:05 Hello 09:46:09 I'm here 09:46:15 `mkdir blah 09:46:16 No output. 09:46:22 `` hg log 09:46:23 changeset: 9084:132542b8bf63 \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Sep 26 08:22:13 2016 +0000 \ summary: rm ps \ \ changeset: 9083:00300a2789b3 \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Sep 26 08:19:40 2016 +0000 \ summary: rm candide \ \ changeset: 9082:c09a4c1bf558 \ user: HackBot \ 09:46:29 `rmdir blah 09:46:30 I got Python to play Ode to Joy 09:46:30 No output. 09:46:35 I'm almost disappointed that the tmp/ trick works. 09:46:59 Otherwise I would've encoded temporary state in directory tree. 09:47:03 It would've been great. 09:47:21 *horrible 09:47:48 esoteric 09:48:05 @wn esoteric 09:48:08 *** "esoteric" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 09:48:08 esoteric 09:48:08 adj 1: confined to and understandable by only an enlightened 09:48:08 inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical 09:48:08 theories" [ant: {exoteric}] 09:48:37 A RIC is a Reuters Instrument Code, used to identify financial instruments. 09:48:40 What's an esoteric? 09:49:09 whoa whoa whoa 09:49:11 @wn exoteric 09:49:11 moon_ seemed a bit trigger happy with the `reverts 09:49:12 *** "exoteric" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 09:49:12 exoteric 09:49:12 adj 1: suitable for the general public; "writings of an exoteric 09:49:12 nature" [ant: {esoteric}] 09:49:21 I've never heard that word before. 09:49:39 What a good word. 09:50:51 oerjan: So when you parameterize everything by dt, dx^2 certainly has some sort of meaning. 09:50:57 But it's kind of a boring one, I guess? 09:51:26 MAYBE 09:51:51 i mean, QUACK 09:52:06 `? oerjan 09:52:08 Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord rubber duck oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 09:52:27 `slwd oerjan//s#rubber duck#quack doctor# 09:52:30 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord quack doctor oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 09:52:55 every day, in every way, my wisdom entry keeps getting better and better 09:54:01 You don't like it? 09:54:13 i was just quoting another quack doctor hth 09:54:32 which i learned about the other day from the iwc forum. 09:54:35 Oh. 09:55:09 If even you only learned about it the other day, how can you expect me to know it? 09:55:25 cultural osmosis. 09:55:39 Say y = x^2. y = t^2, x = t. dy = 2x dx, which are both equal to 2t 09:55:45 quack. 09:56:02 dy^2 = 4x^2 dx^2 09:56:29 Where was I going with this? 09:56:37 quack? 09:57:07 Maybe choosing x = t makes this too boring. 09:57:38 quasi quasi. 09:58:22 Let's say y and x are functions. 09:58:33 quarks. 09:58:39 @time 09:58:42 Local time for shachaf is Mon Sep 26 01:58:40 2016 09:59:16 D(Dy/Dx)/Dx 09:59:21 I'm pretty incoherent right now. 09:59:29 quite. 09:59:45 But y(t) = ... and x(t) = ... 09:59:55 Surely Dy/Dx is a perfectly reasonable function. 10:00:45 D(Dy/Dx) = (Dx D(Dy) - Dy D(Dx))/(Dx)^2, innit? 10:01:11 quack 10:01:16 This is exacty the same as before except I'm writing a capital D. Boring. 10:01:44 `? boring 10:01:45 Boring means of little interest. 10:01:57 `dowg boring 10:01:59 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-04-18 learn Boring means of little interest. 10:02:43 D(Dy/Dx) = D(Dy)/Dx - Dy D(Dx)/Dx^2 10:03:09 `? brilliant 10:03:10 brilliant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:03:38 Say we have dy/dx = u 10:03:40 there should be an entry for `? brilliant that is all over the top and yet complete crap. 10:03:46 i'm just not sure how to do it. 10:03:52 I know just the person. 10:04:12 So dy = u dx 10:04:40 hm... 10:04:50 d both sides: d(dy) = d(u dx) 10:05:23 So d(dy) = u d(dx) + du dx 10:05:54 d(dy)/dx = u d(dx) + du 10:06:11 d(dy)/dx^2 = u d(dx)/dx + du/dx 10:06:40 That accomplished nothing. But I guess it's easier than explicitly doing the quotient thing. 10:06:48 `` le/rn brilliant/"`echo 'BRILLIANT is like the BEST word in the universe and it will change your life FOREVER!' | rainwords | zalgo`" 10:06:52 Learned «brilliant» 10:06:56 `? brilliant 10:06:57 ​̼̗1̏̽3̰̞B̛͂Ŗ̹Ï͞L̓̀Ḽ̊I̠̋Aͧ͂N̷ͫT̋̓ ̸͖͉̟0̧ͭ4ͣ͆i͔̽s̷̾ ̵̝̾̓0̟͠7̰̅l̢̀i̫͗k͞͏e͋͗ ͉̖̐̕0̽͢8̝็t̐ͮh͕̿e͙̾ ̸̙͇̇0็̍9̣ͨB̷̨E̮̮S̟̈́T̵̉ ͇̓̋̄0̧̜2̨̇w̰ͅo̤̕ŕ̗d̑ͩ ̞̱̊ͧ0̴̨6̇̉i͙̊ñ̉ ̧̂ͯ̒1͍ͨ3͇̽ẗ̃ẖ̲e̖ͧ ̰͇̤͂0̴̥4̷̭ṷͦn̘͞i͒ͮ 10:07:17 close enough. 10:07:40 I've been trying to figure out the pun in `? boring 10:07:48 wat 10:07:50 I can see a few candidates but none of them seem to work. 10:08:06 shachaf: there's no pun. it is amusingly self-referential hth 10:08:16 Oh, I missed a /dx 10:08:26 d(dy)/dx^2 = u d(dx)/dx^2 + du/dx 10:08:31 Which we already knew. 10:09:14 `` le/rn brilliant/"`echo 'BRILLIANT is like the BEST word in the universe and it will change your life FOREVER!' | zalgo | rainwords`" 10:09:21 Relearned «brilliant» 10:09:24 `? brilliant 10:09:25 ​B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ̺͌c̑͡h 10:09:28 `? rich 10:09:29 rich? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:09:34 there you go. 10:09:55 `? poor 10:09:56 poor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:10:10 `learn A rich person is a person of exciting means, which produce significant interest. 10:10:13 Learned 'rich': A rich person is a person of exciting means, which produce significant interest. 10:10:27 `learn A poor person is a person of boring means, which produce little interest. 10:10:30 Learned 'poor': A poor person is a person of boring means, which produce little interest. 10:10:34 what does zalgo do? 10:11:20 That's the best I can doerjan. 10:11:21 `zalgo Horrible things. 10:11:22 H̼̆ȭrͮͅr̜ͯi͖͗b̲̿l̴͂ẽ̵ ̶̹t̙͛ḩ͚i͂ͥn͌̋g̫̩s̒̈.̜͘ 10:11:50 they tie themselves in horrible knots 10:12:00 they come in stripes or polka dots 10:12:20 don't try do wussel out of this 10:12:28 *to 10:12:39 oerjan: do you know that "weasel out" is a phrase 10:12:47 holy crap is the internet slow in this hospital 10:12:47 you could have alluded to that one instead 10:12:49 more appropriate 10:13:12 *wooozle 10:13:18 shachaf: of course i do. 10:13:27 myname: are you injured 10:13:52 not in the traditional sense, no 10:14:46 `` rm wisdom/{rich,poor} 10:14:49 No output. 10:15:59 shachaf: i thought that was what i did, except i couldn't remember the english spelling. 10:16:18 Ah, I thought it was meant to be "wuss out" 10:16:43 Where "weasel out" would be more appropriate, because woozles are related to weasels. 10:18:27 OK, let's take a case like x=t^2, y=t^3 10:18:47 I said that d(dy)/dx^2 = dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 + d(dy/dx)/dx 10:19:05 So d(dy/dx)/dx = d(dy)/dx^2 -dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 10:19:12 d(dy/dx)/dx = d(dy)/dx^2 - dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 10:20:17 dy = 3t^2, dx = 2t 10:20:31 dy/dx = 3/2 t 10:21:29 So d(dy/dx)/dx = d(3/2 t)/(2t) = (3/2)/(2t) = 3/(4t) 10:21:58 d(dy) = 6t, d(dx) = 2 10:22:10 dx^2 = 4t^2 10:23:00 So we have 6t/(4t^2) - 3/2 t 2/(4t^2) 10:23:26 quack. 10:23:48 = (6t - 3t)/4t^2 10:24:16 = 3/4 t 10:24:28 So that extra dy/dx d(dx)/dx^2 adjustment did exactly the wrong thing. 10:24:37 We wanted 3/2 t 10:25:37 But note that d(dy)/dx^2 = 6t/(4t^2) = 3/2t *is* the right derivative. 10:26:06 shoquack. 10:26:28 oerjan: zzo38 said it was nonsense earlier! 10:26:39 But here we go, d^y/dx^2 actually does work. 10:26:51 It's just that my claim about the d^2x/dx^2 was wrong 10:26:58 Why is that? 10:27:06 skeptiquack about d^y/dx^2 hth 10:27:20 Does it not work in this case? 10:27:57 Er, d^2y/dx^2 10:28:15 skeptiquacks are exactly what i need tdh 10:29:46 So what am I doing wrong? 10:31:44 If d^2y/dx^2 is OK then maybe did I miss some simplification steps in my calculation? (I just got an answer that I was able to prove was equal to Penrose's answer.) 10:31:54 Which answer? 10:32:36 I forget now, but I remembered when I simplified both answers I got the same thing in each case, showing them to be equal. 10:32:46 when calculating second derivatives, you have to let the dx's from calculating the first derivatives go to 0 _first_, because there's no continuity property that allows you to defer it. this means that you _cannot_ treat dx^2 as having the same dx variable twice... they come from different scopes, as i said. 10:32:49 Maybe I should ask: Answer to what? 10:33:26 oerjan: i know you said that but i didn't understand it so i decided to ignore it hth 10:33:46 thought so. 10:34:06 Now I think I see what you mean, but I'm not sure it's true. 10:34:23 this isn't taking a limit, yo 10:34:43 dy/dx is just an expression in x 10:35:08 dy/dx = 2x or something 10:35:13 maybe, maybe it is true, though 10:35:42 also, my comment about rubber duck means that i'm not reading half of what you write hth 10:35:53 half of what i write is wrong 10:35:58 i hope that's the half you're not reading twh 10:36:50 Say x^2+y^2=1 10:37:01 2x dx + 2y dy = 0 10:37:25 y dy = -x dx 10:37:53 incidentally, that's equivalent to saying "a circle is always normal to its radius" 10:38:09 yes 10:38:33 it's much nicer than dy/dx = -x/sqrt(1-x^2) or whatever you might write 10:39:13 OK, let's parameterize it. 10:39:26 x = cos t, y = sin t 10:40:05 dx = -sin t dt, dy = cos t dt 10:40:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:40:24 er 10:40:29 scrap that 10:40:32 x = cos t, y = sin t 10:40:41 dx = -sin t, dy = cos t 10:40:59 what am i even doing 10:41:24 dx = -y, dy = x 10:41:25 incidentally, the half i'm not reading includes most of the formulas hth 10:41:41 dy/dx = -x/y 10:42:03 d(dy) = -y 10:42:49 d(dx) = -x 10:43:44 d(dy)/dx^2 = -y/(y^2) = -1/y 10:44:03 is that right 10:45:27 quack but i dislike confusing functions and expressions. 10:46:28 these are expressions 10:46:45 the d(dy) = -y part is just sin'' = -sin and cos'' = -cos 10:46:57 yes 10:47:03 since x and y are expressions in t 10:47:10 what's confused there 10:48:05 the d operator applied to an expression. 10:48:36 yes, d means "derivative with respect to t" 10:48:42 as specified a few pages ago 10:48:49 quack. 10:49:17 look, is -1/y the right second derivative? 10:49:30 oh, i guess i could differentiate and see 10:50:11 for a half circle the usual way it would be the derivative of -x/sqrt(1-x^2) 10:51:29 = (y d(-x)/dx - (-x) dy/dx)/y^2 10:52:07 = (x dy/dx - y)/y^2 10:52:14 dy/dx = -x/y 10:52:45 so that's (-x^2/y - y)/y^2 10:53:08 = -x^2/y^3 - 1/y 10:53:10 hm 10:54:05 the second derivative of sqrt(1-x^2) is -1/(sqrt(1-x^2)^3) 10:54:25 quack 10:54:27 so -1/(y^3) 10:54:35 which is neither of the other two answers i got 10:54:49 probably because i haven't done this in years and also it's 3 in the morning 10:55:23 ok, well, the hand derivative i just did wrong 10:55:48 but -1/y isn't right, it's -1/y^3 10:55:55 let me try one more time 10:56:02 x = cos t, y = sin t 10:56:16 dx = -y, dy = x 10:56:24 d(dx) = -x, d(dy) = -y 10:57:03 d(dy)/(dx^2) = -y/(y^2) = -1/y 10:57:37 `? evilipse 10:57:38 ​ the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 10:57:57 `slwd evilipse//s//evilipse,/ 10:57:59 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression 10:58:08 `slwd evilipse//s/^/evilipse,/ 10:58:10 wisdom/evilipse//evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 10:58:57 ok, dy/dx = -x/y 10:59:52 d(-x/y) = (y d(-x) - (-x) dy)/y^2 11:00:32 = (y^2 + x^2)/y^2 11:00:45 = 1/y^2 11:00:54 so d(-x/y)/dx = 1/y^3 11:01:09 so at least that's right 11:01:26 but why does that not work in the other problem, and d^2y/dx^2 not work in this problem? 11:01:29 please advise 11:01:39 quack. 11:01:42 so tired 11:02:09 maybe the whole premise is broken? 11:02:09 I thought of variant of Archenemy game of Magic: the Gathering where the players must bid on being the solo player. Do you have any ideas about this too? Do you like this? (I also thought of some ideas about it) 11:02:25 how do they bid? 11:02:30 or what 11:06:23 I thought you can bid how many points you will earn, which will also control cards you must ante at first and how many times that when you would set a scheme in motion instead you must look at the top card of your scheme deck and decide to either leave it there or move it to the bottom. 11:08:06 Doubling and redoubling like in bridge might also be done. 11:12:10 oh wow, it seems it deleted advice, bin, and ibin <-- *sigh*, all the symbolic links will have broken in there, won't they. 11:12:34 what was advice/ for anyway? 11:13:12 int-e: i dunno. shachaf said directories don't get committed in hg at all btw 11:13:41 `` hg log advice 11:13:44 No output. 11:13:57 * oerjan has no idea what syntax to use. 11:13:57 Ah, that may be true. 11:14:06 maybe it's always been empty. 11:14:16 `` grep -rl advice bin 11:14:20 No output. 11:14:34 hopefully useless too 11:22:16 Based on a log-grep, I reckon it's always been empty. 11:22:40 It was proposed as a wisdom-style thing, but a set instead of a map. 11:23:39 `? #esoteric-blah 11:23:40 ​#esoteric-blah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:24:06 `learn #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! 11:24:09 Learned '#esoteric-blah': #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! 11:28:33 -!- kline_ has changed nick to kline. 11:32:14 -!- Robdgreat has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 11:35:19 -!- boily has joined. 11:40:33 `wisdom 11:40:44 sugar//Sugar, spice, and everything nice. These were the ingredients chosen to create the perfect little girl. But Professor Utonium accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction: Chemical X! Thus the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup have dedicated their lives to fighting crime an 11:41:21 Would a Magic: the Gathering card that says "you may pay {0}. When you do," make any sense? (Note that it doesn't say "if you do"; it says "when you do") 11:43:31 hezzo38. It would probably never exist, but it would make sense and be within the usual ruleset. 11:43:48 (Or if it exists, it does as a modernified rewording of a very old card.) 11:45:59 zzo38: Compare to the wording for Conspire, I think? 11:46:24 I mean the reminder text. 12:10:46 -!- wanderman has joined. 12:10:59 `relcome wanderman 12:11:00 ​wanderman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 12:11:31 afternoily 12:11:37 hi 12:13:05 bon matørjan. 12:26:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PALM CHICKEN). 12:36:31 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:36:44 -!- wanderman has left ("Leaving"). 12:38:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:42:23 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:43:08 -!- \oren\ has joined. 13:01:29 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:01:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:02:37 -!- \oren\ has joined. 13:07:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:19:06 sweet mother of node spam 13:25:36 @ask boily . o O ( where *is* Roujo now? ) <-- have you checked the other channel, he's right there hth 13:25:36 Consider it noted. 13:27:57 `? adpoted 13:27:58 ​"Oh lord, we've adpoted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 13:28:07 `howg adpoted 13:28:09 ​ revert 942e964c81c1 \ ` chmod 777 / -R \ slashlearn adpoted/"Oh lord, we\'ve adpoted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 \ slashlearn adpoted/"Oh lord, we\'ve adpoted another one." => Marten realizes how the 13:28:29 `? adopted 13:28:30 adopted? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:29:21 `` cd wisdom; mv ad{po,op}ted; sled 'adopted//s/pot/opt/' 13:29:23 adopted//"Oh lord, we've adopted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 13:30:14 @tell b_jonas oyu souhld adpot bteter spellign thh 13:30:15 Consider it noted. 13:35:56 oerjan: It's a scow how every non-executable file now has the chmod 777 and my revert in their howg. 13:36:37 yep 13:37:04 `howg quotes 13:37:07 No output. 13:37:13 `hoag quotes 13:37:15 ​ revert 942e964c81c1 \ ` chmod 777 / -R \ sled quotes//1289s/ // \ addquote < hppavilion[1]> alercah: Also, this isn\'t a PC thing- if it was PC, it wouldn\'t list ones for whites \ addquote I think we need to make Greece an independent country \ sled quotes//1287s,I.*,[...] 13:37:47 fizzie: you can now join ais523's company hth 13:39:36 I probably should've done a manual hg thing to change the head, instead of doing a revert commit. But it's a bit too late for that now. 13:46:21 -!- evilmoon has joined. 13:46:24 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49772&oldid=49748 * Total Vacuum * (+14) 13:46:25 Mooo 13:46:39 * oerjan milks evilmoon 13:47:08 wat 13:47:39 [wiki] [[Bf core]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49773 * Total Vacuum * (+494) Created page with "'''bf core''' bf core is extremely optimized by size (69 bytes) brainfuck programming language preamble written in x86-asm. You can use this simple core in your brainfuck com..." 13:47:45 standard procedure for cows hth 13:48:04 moo2 13:48:32 * evilmoon kills oerjan's hairy toe to get rid of its help 13:48:37 `? hth 13:48:39 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 13:50:59 but but without my toe the channel will become infested by BIG HAMS 13:51:34 i dont get it. pls add Sense() to the mix please? 13:51:46 anyway, it's a zombie toe anyway. BTATINS. 13:51:58 sorry spellfin out of otrer 13:52:21 ho gdo abd sepllign 13:52:31 `? sense 13:52:32 Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei. 13:52:44 `? foot 13:52:45 foot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:52:48 `? toe 13:52:49 toe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:52:51 `? hairy toe 13:52:52 hairy toe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:53:17 `? ow 13:53:18 ow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:53:22 `? hackego 13:53:23 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! 13:53:26 `learn The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang. 13:53:28 Learned 'toe': The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang. 13:53:49 `? universe 13:53:51 A universe is a poem in one stanza. 13:54:00 `? evil 13:54:00 evil? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:54:46 `le/rn evil/evil is a special thing, it must be followed by 4 letters of your nickname. it is very evil, and thus is recursive 13:54:48 Learned «evil» 13:55:17 evilrjan :> 13:56:46 . o O ( /mode #esoteric +q evil*!* ) 13:57:03 ): 13:57:03 oerjan: perfect 13:57:13 int-e: which one? 13:57:23 -!- evilmoon has changed nick to not_evilmoon. 13:57:26 oerjan: the channel mode, not Ford. 13:57:31 ah. 13:57:40 (He was Prefect anyway) 13:57:43 which Ford? 13:57:46 oh. 13:58:18 sorry, stupid flexible brain 13:58:21 -!- not_evilmoon has changed nick to evilmoonj. 13:58:30 -!- evilmoonj has changed nick to evilmoon. 13:58:31 (read: unreliable) 13:58:52 `slwd evil//s/./E/;s/$/./ 13:58:54 wisdom/evil//Evil is a special thing, it must be followed by 4 letters of your nickname. it is very evil, and thus is recursive. 13:59:11 `slwd evil//s/\. it/. It/ 13:59:12 * evilmoon wishes chromebooks had a alt pad so i could use (SOFT HYPHEN)s 13:59:13 wisdom/evil//Evil is a special thing, it must be followed by 4 letters of your nickname. It is very evil, and thus is recursive. 13:59:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:00:08 note: format corrections do not imply quality approval hth 14:00:15 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49774&oldid=49773 * Total Vacuum * (-7) 14:01:46 `unicode soft hyphen 14:01:47 ​­ 14:02:00 test­ing 14:02:05 err 14:02:07 look it up 14:02:09 shoot 14:02:13 you broke my terminal 14:02:13 i see just a normal hyphen anyway. 14:02:15 halp 14:02:27 haaalp 14:02:32 you evil evil person 14:02:32 evilmoon: go join the queue with shachaf hth 14:02:42 my terminal is broken 14:02:52 seriously, it takes that little? 14:03:01 apparently 14:03:03 try redrawing hth 14:03:04 im on weechat 14:03:22 how? i just tried switching buffers and that doesnt work 14:03:33 how broken is it, anyway. 14:03:41 there 14:03:50 the test was messing up 14:04:01 it basically made ncurses hate me 14:04:34 13:01:47 oerjan | `unicode soft hyphen │ augur 14:04:34 fancy 14:04:36 13:01:47 HackEgo | ​­ n │ b_jonas 14:04:38 13:2:007 oerjan | test­ing n │ BooK_ 14:04:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:04:40 13:2:407 evilmoon | err g n │ brandonson 14:04:42 13:2:707 evilmoon | erlook it up │ Cale 14:04:44 13:02709 evilmoon | ershoot 14:04:46 thats the result 14:04:58 it messes with the buffer 14:05:06 * evilmoon redraws again 14:09:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:09:57 * evilmoon pokes oerjan in the eyeball for making a habit of ruining people's buffer 14:10:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:10:47 * oerjan swats evilmoon ­­­­­### 14:11:10 * oerjan cackles madly 14:11:21 gaaaah 14:13:03 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49775&oldid=49774 * Total Vacuum * (+84) 14:13:59 `? freenode 14:14:00 The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? 14:14:15 looks boilyish 14:14:24 `cwlprits freenode 14:14:25 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49776&oldid=49775 * Total Vacuum * (+4) 14:14:26 boily 14:16:28 im having to repeatedly refresh my terminal damnit >_< 14:17:02 well don't make a habit of poking people in the eye then. 14:17:53 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49777&oldid=49776 * Total Vacuum * (+6) 14:19:21 oerjan: whats your stance on lolcode? 14:19:44 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49778&oldid=49772 * Total Vacuum * (-14) 14:20:08 a fairly boring language with weird syntax 14:21:37 damnit otherbot y u broken i need evilfl35 to fix this because hes the one who hacked together the IRC connection 14:22:55 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:23:32 -!- otherbot has joined. 14:23:33 damn it was trying to connect to morgan, but morgan is down 14:24:02 * evilmoon tells it to connect to the round-robin loopback instead 14:33:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:37:30 -!- otherbot has changed nick to evilrbot. 14:40:52 oerjan: Gregor got on last night to fix a issue with hackego 14:41:16 namely chmod 000 / -R 14:41:20 wat 14:41:30 DON'T TELL PEOPLE I EXIST 14:41:44 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 14:41:45 Oh looks like he is still on. 14:41:52 i mean, o hai 14:42:23 how's professing 14:43:58 So, Gregor, did you manage to get revert to work in a chmod 000 / -R situation? 14:44:43 i think fizzie made that patch? 14:44:51 hm... 14:44:56 he did, just curious if it was integrated 14:44:57 `cat canary 14:44:58 ribbit 14:45:04 because 0000 might also be able to cause issues 14:45:12 `sled canary//crabbit 14:45:14 canary//rabbit 14:45:17 `revert 14:45:27 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 14:45:34 because chmod 0000 / -R makes it all non executable as well 14:46:05 Gregor: I can SEEEE you! 14:46:29 * evilmoon tells the world Gregor exists 14:46:40 Gregor: there's a spot in HackEgo that wasn't quite ready for the surprise of canary becoming a directory twh 14:47:40 Gregor: Did you know that this channel is still logged despite glogbots absence?! 14:47:54 and then there's that other... oh right, glogbot too 14:51:35 lol 14:52:24 Gregor: What I meant to say, of course, is: Welcome back! How have you been? We were worried that you were eaten by rabid students! 14:52:44 . o O ( or a rare, carnivorous hat ) 14:52:50 :) 14:53:15 Suffice it to say I'm finding real employment to be more time consuming than being a grad student ;) 14:53:30 that was suspected 14:53:53 evilmoon: sorry... 14:53:55 -ping 14:53:55 pong 14:54:11 sorry what? 14:54:15 and it wasn't hacked together, but if i fix it, it will be... 14:54:27 fix what? 14:54:46 * evilmoon is confused 14:56:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:56:31 evilfl35: nothing is wrong, nothing to see here, move along... 14:57:05 lol 14:57:05 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49779&oldid=49777 * Total Vacuum * (+1338) 14:57:11 oerjan: what 14:57:24 evilrbot has nothing wrong with it 14:57:28 evilfl35: you didn't here anything and aliens don't exist 14:57:31 *hear 14:57:32 evilmoon: it won't reconnect 14:57:41 i just set it to use hte loopback 14:57:46 and aliens probably do exist in the observable universe 14:57:47 chat.freenode.net 14:57:58 morgan is just down 14:57:59 evilmoon: why... use morgan.freenode.net 14:58:00 oh 14:58:01 lol 14:58:12 i should make it follow fnalerts 14:58:16 or... 14:58:21 why would you connect directly to morgan... you should just use the round-robin, yeah 14:58:22 chat.freenode.net will do fine 14:58:24 maybe build our own freenode alerts system? 14:58:34 FireFly: that was for the netsplit, forgot to change it back 14:58:40 oerjan: http://static.nichtlustig.de/comics/full/041101.jpg (you know a bit of german, I believe) 14:58:56 During DDoS/netsplits in particular, relying on the roundrobin is smart since that is what staff can change :p 14:59:05 (also the fnalerts bot was on morgan.freenode.net lol) 14:59:26 FireFly: the round robin times out most of the time and they most apparently did not change it 15:00:11 -!- evilrbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:00:13 That'd be one particular server that timed out, which was probably because we hadn't gotten around to update it yet (or rather, the infra team hadn't) 15:00:14 evilfl35: yes, but we certainly haven't observed them. ha, ha! what an idea! 15:00:29 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49780&oldid=49779 * Total Vacuum * (-3) 15:00:32 ...?? 15:00:33 (or cached DNS records) 15:00:55 ... 15:01:08 well it seemed morgan was the best choice at the time, at least 15:01:28 int-e: truth in advertising 15:04:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:12:13 [wiki] [[User talk:Total Vacuum]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49781 * Total Vacuum * (+8) Created page with "Welcome!" 15:21:54 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49782&oldid=49780 * Total Vacuum * (+13) 15:28:35 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49783&oldid=49782 * Total Vacuum * (+14) 15:32:13 wow thats a small compiler. 15:32:16 well not compiler 15:32:18 interpreter 15:32:37 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49784&oldid=49783 * Total Vacuum * (-7) 15:32:47 well, the preable at least 15:34:16 [wiki] [[User talk:Total Vacuum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49785&oldid=49781 * Moon * (+186) /* Greetings! */ new section 15:35:22 -!- otherbot has joined. 15:35:23 -!- otherbot has changed nick to evilrbot. 15:36:19 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49786&oldid=49784 * Total Vacuum * (-4) 15:40:04 i wonder what the perfect esolang for IRC would be. (one that can be programmed in easily on IRC 15:40:06 ) 15:40:23 oerjan: what do you think? 15:44:35 -pad 64+"?kniht lla uoy od tahw">:#,_@ 15:44:38 -befr 15:44:40 what do you all think? 15:48:12 ^ul (Didn't someone mention Underload already?) 15:48:14 ^ul (Didn't someone mention Underload already?)S 15:48:14 Didn't someone mention Underload already? 15:50:00 yea, anythingelse? 15:50:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:50:27 hi ais523, Gregor is alive 15:50:53 hi evilmoon; hi Gregor! 15:51:54 `` echo 'echo \$2 > \'tmp/\$\{\$1\}padfile\'' > bin/pad 15:51:55 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 15:52:06 *sigh* 15:52:17 `mk bin/pad\\echo $2 > 'tmp/${$1}padfile' 15:52:19 usage: mk[x] file//contents 15:52:28 `mkx bin/pad//echo $2 > 'tmp/${$1}padfile' 15:52:30 bin/pad 15:52:43 ``pad 1 'test' 15:52:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `pad: not found 15:52:44 evilmoon: that's not very good quoting. 15:52:57 `` pad 1 'test' 15:52:58 No output. 15:53:08 `cat tmp/1padfile 15:53:09 cat: tmp/1padfile: No such file or directory 15:53:18 *sigh* 15:54:48 `mkx bin/pad//echo $2 > "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" 15:54:50 bin/pad 15:54:51 `` ls tmp/*pad* 15:54:52 tmp/${$1}padfile 15:54:56 `` pad 1 'test' 15:54:57 No output. 15:55:05 `` ls tmp/*pad* 15:55:06 tmp/1padfile \ tmp/${$1}padfile 15:55:10 there. 15:55:20 `bf 15:55:20 Run what? 15:55:26 `cat bin/bf 15:55:26 ​#! /bin/bash \ [[ $# > 0 ]] || { echo "Run what?"; exit 1; } \ ci="$1" \ echo -n "${ci#*!}" | { /hackenv/interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo -n "${ci%%!*}") ; } 15:55:37 `cat bin/f 15:55:37 ​#! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi 15:55:47 oh i remember that one 15:55:57 `` f bf tmp/1padfile 15:55:57 No output. 15:57:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:57:14 `mkx bin/pad//echo "$(echo $2)\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" 15:57:16 bin/pad 15:57:22 `` pad 1 'test' 15:57:23 No output. 15:57:29 `` cat tmp/1padfile 15:57:30 test \ test\n 15:57:37 *sigh* 15:58:15 `mkx bin/pad//echo $\"$(echo $2)\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" 15:58:17 bin/pad 15:58:20 `mkx bin/pad//echo $"$(echo $2)\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" 15:58:22 bin/pad 15:58:23 damn u typos 15:58:28 `` pad 1 'test' 15:58:29 No output. 15:58:33 `` cat tmp/1padfile 15:58:34 test \ test\n \ test\n 16:00:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:01:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:01:22 `mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" 16:01:24 bin/pad 16:01:27 there 16:01:29 that works 16:01:35 `` pad 1 'test' 16:01:35 No output. 16:01:39 `` cat tmp/1padfile 16:01:40 test \ test\n \ test\n \ test 16:02:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:02:37 moo hi 16:04:20 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49787&oldid=49786 * Total Vacuum * (+359) 16:05:17 wello 16:05:21 I'm here to abuse the bot 16:05:26 what bot? 16:05:31 what bot? 16:05:41 HackEgo 16:05:45 lol 16:05:45 it bugs me how our nicks are the same color and length 16:05:49 as requested 16:05:50 evilator: not me 16:05:54 lol 16:06:05 evilfl35: my fucking valoran node went down DL 16:06:07 *D: 16:06:18 weechat just assigns a random color to your nicks. 16:06:21 Time-Wrap: so did my insomnia247 node but then the admin fixed ze ddos filter 16:06:22 whos Time-Wrap anyways 16:06:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:06:31 /whois Time-Wrap 16:06:46 lol eclipse 16:06:49 oh lol 16:07:11 just dont get fizzie / Gregor mad at you and your good :P 16:07:19 *you're 16:07:20 >:D 16:07:27 so if I try my thing now it wont work 16:07:28 ? 16:07:33 dont try it anyways 16:07:38 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49788&oldid=49787 * Total Vacuum * (+49) 16:07:41 evilator: I used to have an annoying autocorrect bot feature 16:07:47 or fizzie WILL ban you >_> 16:07:59 evilmoon* 16:08:05 dammit 16:08:08 ? 16:08:13 I used to have an annoying autocorrect bot feature 16:08:17 ok? 16:08:20 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49789&oldid=49788 * Total Vacuum * (-6) 16:08:22 ok? 16:08:25 ok. 16:09:02 oerjan: is it possible for a command sent to hackego to get the name of it's caller? 16:09:04 [wiki] [[Total Vacuum]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49790 * Total Vacuum * (+21) Created page with "Under construction..." 16:09:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:09:14 wb ais523 16:09:42 freenode 16:09:42 evilmoon: my connection is dubious 16:09:52 in addition to freenode potentially being ddosed 16:09:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:10:31 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 16:10:31 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49791&oldid=49789 * Total Vacuum * (+23) 16:10:37 evilmoon: not that i know of. 16:10:55 `mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" 16:10:57 bin/pad 16:11:01 That's at least a little more sane, IMO. 16:11:16 -!- MDead has joined. 16:11:22 The thing with $(echo $1) in place of $1 was tb. ("Too bizarre".) 16:11:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:11:57 * evilmoon hides the wirecutters before ais523 notices 16:12:27 evilmoon: actually this is a wireless connection, so it may well be rain that's making it unreliable 16:12:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:12:51 Also I think most of the nick-colorisation schemes assign a color based on a hash, not randomly. (For persistence.) 16:12:54 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:13:02 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 16:13:59 -pad 5 :>>#;1-:48*+01p*01g48*-#;1#+-#1:#<_$.@ 16:14:01 -befr 16:14:03 what do you all think? 16:14:06 derp 16:14:08 -padclr 16:14:11 -pad 5 :>>#;1-:48*+01p*01g48*-#;1#+-#1:#<_$.@ 16:14:14 -befr 16:14:16 120 16:15:06 looks mathy 16:15:26 > product[1..5] 16:15:28 120 16:16:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:18:42 wb again 16:18:55 nice internet. try a wired connection and something thats not satelite 16:20:18 -!- PocketKiller has joined. 16:20:35 PocketKiller, what bring you here? 16:20:43 Nothing. 16:20:50 I just join and see any channel I find... 16:21:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:21:14 -!- PocketKiller has left (">:D"). 16:25:33 -!- Time-Wrap has changed nick to wiggle. 16:26:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:26:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:27:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:29:33 hi Phantom_Hoover 16:29:41 hello evilmoon 16:30:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: I think my pockets survived). 16:30:42 note the other random evil people :P 16:32:02 -!- nycs has joined. 16:32:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:36:10 `` mount 16:36:11 none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host 16:36:38 `` ping -c 3 google.com 16:36:39 pong 16:36:44 `` which ping 16:36:44 ​/hackenv/bin/ping 16:36:49 `` ls /bin 16:36:50 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ 16:36:53 `` /bin/ping 16:36:54 Usage: ping [-LRUbdfnqrvVaAD] [-c count] [-i interval] [-w deadline] \ [-p pattern] [-s packetsize] [-t ttl] [-I interface] \ [-M pmtudisc-hint] [-m mark] [-S sndbuf] \ [-T tstamp-options] [-Q tos] [hop1 ...] destination 16:36:58 `` /bin/ping -c 3 google.com 16:36:58 ping: unknown host google.com 16:37:49 `` ls /dev 16:37:50 agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ 16:47:45 -!- digin4 has joined. 16:52:12 <\oren\> evilfl35: the sandbox has not interwebz 16:52:23 \oren\: i see 16:53:23 So, it seems that in my absence, #esoteric became the "try to hack hackbot" channel. I fear I've done terrible things. 16:54:49 -!- `^_^ has joined. 16:56:54 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:00:53 Gregor: nope, it's pretty much i wonder what this this does 17:01:05 s/this this/this 17:01:12 / 17:02:25 Gregor: we found a couple of ways to permanently damage it, I think, even though we didn't find ways to escape the sandbox 17:02:28 mostly via exploiting bugs in hg 17:02:55 `` echo making a change for the purpose of reverting it >> temp 17:02:57 No output. 17:03:01 `revert 17:03:01 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 17:03:21 I think we're stuck with that "cannot remove" forever, or until someone figures out a way to fix it 17:05:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:58 Gregor: evilrbot, evilator, evilvoid, and wiggle are new, wiggle is the one who borked the bot most recently 17:11:12 oh evil3bot is a bot, i ment evilfl35 17:11:47 ... 17:12:18 -nick otherbot 17:12:18 -!- evilrbot has changed nick to otherbot. 17:12:36 -nick evilrbot 17:12:36 -!- otherbot has changed nick to evilrbot. 17:12:38 hey 17:12:46 -nick otherbot 17:12:46 -!- evilrbot has changed nick to otherbot. 17:12:53 -!- evilmoon has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 17:13:16 .... 17:18:29 -!- evilfl35 has changed nick to jeffl35. 17:19:14 `cat bin/culprits 17:19:15 hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 17:20:17 <\oren\> I have a bot, but it's under the same nick as me 17:20:29 <\oren\> and has no help command. 17:21:01 * moonythedwarf prods /oren/ for fun 17:21:31 `hoag bin/awk 17:21:33 No output. 17:21:41 `hoag bin/culprits 17:21:43 ​ revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ mkx bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk \'{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}\' | sed "s/.$/\\x0F&/" | xargs \ ` mv bin/culprits bin/culprits2; mv bin/innocent bin/culprits \ ` mv bin/culprits2 bin/culprits \ ?????? 17:22:42 `` rm --no-preserve-root / 17:22:43 rm: cannot remove `/': Is a directory 17:22:44 lol 17:22:47 <\oren\> the character that activates my bot is the snowflake 17:23:01 TIL https://youtu.be/IvUU8joBb1Q they actually play this on concerts without the machine 17:23:08 -eval config.cmdchar = '' 17:23:09 '' 17:23:11 ping 17:23:11 pong 17:23:14 now it's nothing 17:23:22 eval config.cmdchar = '' 17:23:22 '\u000f' 17:23:24 ok that's better 17:23:28 ping 17:23:29 pong 17:24:25 `` man hoag 17:24:26 Nice try. 17:24:28 ping 17:24:28 ??? 17:24:30 `` which man 17:24:31 ​/hackenv/bin/man 17:24:34 `` /bin/man 17:24:35 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/man: No such file or directory 17:24:41 `` /usr/bin/man 17:24:42 ​/usr/bin/man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 17:24:44 jeffl35: its to prevent people from locking up the bot 17:24:45 lol 17:24:55 `` /usr/bin/man man 17:24:56 ​/usr/bin/man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 17:24:58 lol 17:25:01 `` hoag bin/man 17:25:03 ​ revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ ` (echo \'#!/bin/sh\'; echo \'echo Nice try.\') > bin/man && chmod a+x bin/man \ ` (echo \'#!/bin/sh\'; echo \'Nice try.\') > bin/man && chmod a+x bin/man 17:25:09 `` which hoa 17:25:10 `` which hoag 17:25:11 No output. 17:25:11 ​/hackenv/bin/hoag 17:25:14 `` cat /hackenv/bin/hoag 17:25:15 hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" 17:25:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:26:10 lol 17:26:29 ` gcc 17:26:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 17:26:33 lol 17:27:20 -eval bot2 = require('child_process').spawn('node',['app.js']); 17:29:00 `` cat bin/culprits 17:29:01 hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 17:29:58 hmm, int-e / fizzie, how would i go about printing only the commands that were preformed on a file? 17:30:21 -eval bot2 17:30:29 eval bot2 = require('child_process').spawn('node',['app.js']); 17:30:29 [ReferenceError: bot2 is not defined] 17:30:34 eval var bot2 = require('child_process').spawn('node',['app.js']); 17:30:35 undefined 17:30:39 eval bot2 17:30:39 [ReferenceError: bot2 is not defined] 17:30:46 -!- otherbot_ has joined. 17:30:50 lol 17:30:51 ... 17:30:55 -eval process.exit() 17:30:56 -!- otherbot_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:01 at least they have different cmdchars 17:31:02 -!- otherbot_ has joined. 17:31:05 ...... 17:31:06 try modifying the global object to make a variable perm 17:31:11 eval bot2 17:31:12 [ReferenceError: bot2 is not defined] 17:31:14 -eval process.exit() 17:31:14 -!- otherbot_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:15 eval global.bot2 17:31:15 undefined 17:31:21 eval bot.bot2 17:31:21 undefined 17:33:16 geez, why do people always spam the channel with bot crap 17:33:57 lol 17:34:08 jeffl35: if your going to experiment, take it to your channel 17:35:21 eval bot.bot2 = require('child_process').spawn('node',['app.js']); 17:35:23 ChildProcess { 17:35:24 domain: null, 17:35:24 _events: {}, 17:35:25 _eventsCount: 0, 17:35:25 -flushq 17:35:26 _maxListeners: undefined, 17:35:27 _closesNeeded: 3, 17:35:27 _closesGot: 0, 17:35:28 connected: false, 17:35:29 signalCode: null, 17:35:29 Oflushq 17:35:29 exitCode: null, 17:35:30 killed: false, 17:35:31 spawnfile: 'node', 17:35:32 _handle: Process { owner: [Circular], onexit: [Function], pid: 14383 }, 17:35:32 flushq 17:35:32 Send queue flushed 17:35:37 -!- otherbot_ has joined. 17:35:43 -nick anotherbot 17:35:43 -!- otherbot_ has changed nick to anotherbot. 17:35:45 there we go 17:36:30 >_< 17:36:31 -!- `^_^ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:36:36 jeffl take it somewhere else 17:37:02 flushq 17:37:09 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 17:37:10 -!- anotherbot has quit (Client Quit). 17:37:28 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:37:38 -!- otherbot has quit (Changing host). 17:37:38 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:38:08 moonythedwarf: what 17:39:23 this channel is not for enormous bit configure testing 17:40:14 ^ 17:40:16 > bit configure 17:40:22 eh ok 17:40:23 error: Variable not in scope: configure :: Int 17:40:29 -part #esoteric 17:40:29 -!- otherbot has left. 17:40:35 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:40:52 jeffl35: it can stay, but it can be used excessivly in here 17:41:14 eh, if everybody's going to complain, then it can't stay 17:41:30 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:41:36 hmm 17:41:38 need to fix the part comand 17:41:57 no you dont. lets talk in the other channel for a moment 17:42:24 (no seriously, when given without arguments it should not part a channel named undefined) 17:42:37 oh 17:42:39 lol 17:43:33 -reload 17:43:33 Reloading modules... 17:43:35 -part 17:43:35 -!- otherbot has left. 17:43:37 :D 17:43:38 uh 17:43:41 ... reasons... 17:44:04 -!- Reece` has joined. 17:56:18 -!- alakra has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4). 17:57:23 i have a data structure that can be indexed by integers 17:57:43 but not all the elements must be set 17:57:49 so there can be holes 17:57:58 -!- alakra has joined. 17:58:16 first idea is to use a hash table, but i want to be able to iterate over the keys in order 17:58:38 if i use something like a rb tree i get log n access time 17:58:52 -!- digin4 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:59:41 so my idea is to use a hash table to store the actual data, so retrieving them takes constant time, but also store the keys in a tree 17:59:54 -!- alakra has quit (Client Quit). 18:00:03 so inserting a new value takes logarithmic time 18:00:12 same for removing 18:00:31 but accessing elements that already in the structure is still constant time 18:00:44 is this stupid? 18:01:05 -!- alakra has joined. 18:02:16 ...that are* already in the structure.. 18:02:54 you could use a fibonacci heap instead of a tree 18:03:08 let me look it up real quick 18:06:11 i am not sure how expensive copying is, though 18:15:16 <\oren\> I hate it when I try to compile a program I want to use, and discover a compiler error that could easily have been fixed. 18:15:59 it's much better when there's a compiler error that can't be easily fixed 18:16:05 <\oren\> in this case, the newest version of tmux won't compile because they are trying to use the va_args macros without #include 18:16:25 <\oren\> i mean seriously why? 18:16:53 even i at least compile before shipping 18:17:33 <\oren\> maybe they assume that stdio.h includes stdarg.h? 18:21:08 -!- \oren\ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:21:38 -!- bibibi has joined. 18:25:37 -!- bibibi has quit (Changing host). 18:25:37 -!- bibibi has joined. 18:29:04 -!- oren has joined. 18:29:21 i'm back 18:29:58 after some finagling with the stupid tmux code, it compiled and I'm now using tmux 2.2 18:30:13 you lost your \s 18:30:24 -!- oren has changed nick to \oren\. 18:30:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:31:15 -!- \oren\ has quit (Client Quit). 18:31:22 -!- augur has joined. 18:32:00 -!- oren has joined. 18:32:11 stupid tmux 18:32:27 now i'm getting segfaults 18:32:34 ugh 18:33:06 wait or maybe it's irssi that is segfaulting 18:33:36 ❄ping 18:33:38 grr 18:35:15 ❄ping 18:35:15 ☃ pong 18:35:20 there we go 18:36:13 where can I go yell at the tmux devs 18:36:36 -!- oren has changed nick to \oren\. 18:36:46 -!- kline has quit (Killed (dax (17:33 < kline> opal, im immortal))). 18:37:17 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to GoldenIvy_. 18:37:56 -!- GoldenIvy_ has changed nick to khor____. 18:38:12 -!- khor____ has changed nick to Lorskel_. 18:38:24 -!- Lorskel_ has changed nick to khoR______. 18:38:39 -!- khoR______ has changed nick to Lorskel_. 18:38:58 -!- Lorskel_ has changed nick to khoR________. 18:39:19 -!- khoR________ has changed nick to GoldenIvy. 18:40:10 -!- GoldenIvy has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:42:44 -!- kline has joined. 18:42:58 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:43:12 -!- Elronnd has joined. 18:43:32 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:44:18 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:44:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:51:28 -!- otherbot has joined. 18:51:54 either something is wrong with ><>'s author's implentation, or the quine on its esolang page doesnt work 18:52:08 -pad "r00gol?!;40. 18:52:11 -><>r 18:52:11 "r00gol ?!;40 . 18:52:26 moonythedwarf: or you implemented the thing wrong 18:52:29 -part needs fixing 18:52:29 -!- otherbot has left ("needs,fixing"). 18:52:33 ... 18:52:35 need to fix tat 18:52:54 -reload 18:52:58 -pad "r00gol?!;40. 18:53:00 -><>r 18:53:11 ... 18:56:22 <\oren\> ❄calc 2 3 + p 18:56:22 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 18:56:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:57:41 nope error with my bot. 18:57:52 *jeffl35's 18:57:56 e*our 18:58:11 ... 18:58:13 yes 18:58:15 ❄efef 18:58:15 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 18:58:16 ❄lol 18:58:16 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 18:58:17 ❄ping 18:58:18 <\oren\> ☃ pong 18:58:19 ❄help 18:58:20 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 18:58:20 ❄list 18:58:21 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd. 18:59:02 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 + p 18:59:02 <\oren\> ☃ 3 18:59:39 ❄ocal 1 + 2 = p 18:59:40 <\oren\> ☃ 0 18:59:46 ❄ocal 1 + 2 = p; p = 4 18:59:47 <\oren\> ☃ 0 0 18:59:51 ❄ocal 1 + 2 = p; p = 4; p 18:59:51 <\oren\> ☃ 0 0 4 18:59:56 what does it use? 19:00:07 rpn 19:00:10 <\oren\> reverse polish notation 19:00:27 no i mean the calculator, what software? 19:00:40 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: I wrote a crappy thing in C 19:00:45 ohlol 19:01:08 write an rpn is like the most simple thing ever 19:01:21 in haskell it's like 2 lines and one line per operator 19:01:31 <\oren\> ❄ocal 5 7 / p 19:01:31 <\oren\> ☃ 0 19:01:40 <\oren\> oh right it's only integer 19:02:51 <\oren\> I should make a more useful thing. the only useful thing it has right now is the Kerbal Space Program delta V calculator 19:03:15 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 3 180 terrier 19:03:15 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 3711.4362202711 19:03:35 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 3 180 nuke 19:03:35 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 2799.18496003117 19:04:33 zzo38? 19:04:52 <\oren\> I don't think he's here right now 19:08:17 -reload 19:11:33 -help 19:11:41 -!- otherbot has joined. 19:12:04 i tried zzo38's sandboxing tip, lets see if you all can break it. doot see -js 19:16:33 Huh, apparently Deez Nutz finally died 19:16:34 Thank god 19:18:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:19:21 hppavilion[1]: +1 19:19:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:20:10 who? 19:21:38 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:58 -!- evilator has changed nick to Bowserinator. 19:40:17 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:41:30 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:41:35 -!- otherbot has joined. 19:41:42 hi wob_jonas 19:43:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:45:02 \oren\: [on ₯] "that character is an interesting one because it never actually appeared on the greek drachma notes" => Interesting only if you're British. The euro sign € doesn't appear on the euro coins or notes, and the dollar sign doesn't appear on US dollar banknotes either. I think symbols not appearing on banknotes is the default. 19:49:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:49:33 <\oren\> wob_jonas: I haven't been able to find any usage of the symbol at all by greeks 19:49:55 <\oren\> the symbol they use is capital delta, lowercase rho 19:50:06 <\oren\> *used 19:50:25 \oren\: how much have you been in Greece before the euro was introduced there? 19:51:17 i tried zzo38's sandboxing tip, lets see if you all can break it. doot see -js 19:51:25 The $ sign does appear on the US $100,000 bill. 19:51:25 -js x = 1+1 19:51:25 'ReferenceError: x is not defined' 19:51:42 shachaf: .... ok 19:54:24 wob_jonas: AFAIK ₧ is also a "less conceiving" currency mark, its exact glyph is not well specified AFAIK 19:54:48 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 19:59:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:03:57 zzo38: you know that Agner Fog's calling conventions manual http://www.agner.org/optimize/#manual_call_conv describes most of the details of the schemes used by popular C++ compilers, right? 20:05:34 zzo38: in theory that allows you to call C++ functions, but it doesn't allow you to access a lot of structures defined by the C++ standard library, because the ABI for that is decided not by the mangling, but by the struct declarations, inline function definitions, and other declarations and macro definitions in the headers, and Agner's manual does 20:05:34 n't describe that because it would be almost impossible. 20:05:39 wob_jonas: hes not online 20:05:52 moonythedwarf: I'll @message then 20:06:24 @tell zzo38 You know that Agner Fog's calling conventions manual http://www.agner.org/optimize/#manual_call_conv describes most of the details of the schemes used by popular C++ compilers, right? In theory that allows you to call C++ functions, but \ 20:06:24 Consider it noted. 20:06:42 @tell zzo38 it doesn't allow you to access a lot of structures defined by the C++ standard library, because the ABI for that is decided not by the mangling, but by the struct declarations, inline function definitions, and other declarations and macro definitions in the headers, and Agner's manual doesn't describe that because it would be almost imp 20:06:42 Consider it noted. 20:06:43 ossible. 20:08:27 moonythedwarf: wait, how is zzo38 not online? He's usually joined to this channel, even when he's not actually listening. 20:08:34 Strange 20:11:50 wob_jonas: Gregor is alive 20:13:29 \oren\: also, apparently the UK has 10 shilling notes until 1970, which might explain why the pound notes have a pound sign printed: it makes it easier to distinguish 10 shilling notes from 10 pound notes at a glance even if you're unfamiliar with the particular notes. 20:15:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:22 -!- hydraz has changed nick to hydPaz. 20:22:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:31:24 @tell ais523 I had a fix for it all thought out, but forgot about the details already. It had something to do with adjusting the find. 20:31:25 Consider it noted. 20:31:55 @tell ais523 Although I'm pretty sure a working fix would be to use hg revert --no-backup, and omit the find -name '*.orig' -exec rm altogether. 20:31:55 Consider it noted. 20:32:11 fizzie: is this about the bug in `revert of Hackego? 20:32:15 wob_jonas: Yes. 20:32:23 @tell moonythedwarf test 20:32:24 Consider it noted. 20:32:27 @tell jeffl35 test 20:32:27 You can tell yourself! 20:32:30 lol 20:32:43 @tell Jeffl35 test 20:32:43 You can tell yourself! 20:32:50 @tell jeffl35 test 20:32:50 Consider it noted. 20:33:21 jeffl35: you can also try to use memoserv, which is a service tied to nickserv and lets you send memos to nickserv accounts 20:33:38 wob_jonas: but what does @tell do? 20:33:43 @hel 20:33:43 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 20:33:52 @help 20:33:52 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 20:33:52 @list 20:33:52 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 20:33:56 @listmodules 20:33:56 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search 20:33:56 slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 20:34:14 @list irc 20:34:14 irc has no visible commands 20:34:19 @list tell 20:34:19 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages auto-reply auto-reply? clear-auto-reply 20:34:26 @messages 20:34:26 You don't have any messages 20:34:31 O 20:34:31 ok 20:38:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:39:30 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:53:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:56:06 wob_jonas: The euro symbol *is* on some of the notes; 5, 10 and 20, in the reflectiony strip at the end. 20:56:32 fizzie: the hologram-like strips? hmm, let me check that 20:56:34 he said it's not on the coins 20:56:40 i guess that is true 20:56:49 but yeah, it is on the notes 20:56:53 myname: "The euro sign € doesn't appear on the euro coins or notes --" 20:56:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:58:10 ah wait, the euro symbol is indeed on the 10 euro note, not on the hologram strip, but both printed on the obverse and in the transparent shiny strip (not the hologram) in the obverse 20:58:23 I'm wrong then 20:59:04 -!- ^v has joined. 20:59:05 Wikipedia's description of the security features also says: "Security Thread: When the note is held against the light, the security thread appears as a dark line. The Euro symbol (€) and the value of the banknote can be seen in tiny white lettering in the thread." 20:59:09 But that doesn't really count. 20:59:20 I guess I hadn't looked much at the euro banknotes 20:59:29 I saw the new UK £5 note the first time the other day. 20:59:31 fizzie: it does sort of count, though obviously that's less prominent 20:59:33 It's got a hole in it. 20:59:45 fizzie: how big hole? 20:59:46 Well, not a real hole. But a transparent thing. 20:59:53 oh 20:59:55 I think. 21:00:04 yes, lots of banknotes have those 21:00:42 ok, not a lot 21:00:58 I think it's possible only on banknotes printed on non-paper plastic material 21:01:14 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/02/99648581_five-pound-banknote-NEWS-large_trans++tLiXk9I2QPXgI4Uxb3W8EZ4gz3qz54_bsJIilxgiIC0.jpg -- that "framed" thing above the word "Five" was transparent-ish, I think. 21:01:39 And yeah, the new ones are some sort of polymer thing. 21:02:16 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:03:52 banknotes on plastic are more resistant to wear and tear, but I suspect it might be more difficult to add a good set of security features on them 21:08:01 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49792&oldid=49791 * Total Vacuum * (+74) 21:08:46 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49793&oldid=49792 * Total Vacuum * (+5) 21:10:21 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49794&oldid=49793 * Total Vacuum * (-3) 21:10:52 I don't live there, so I only ever see GBP as an electronic currency online, not the actual banknotes. (The same is true for CAD and AUD.) 21:12:43 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49795&oldid=49794 * Total Vacuum * (+0) 21:12:51 fizzie: oh, and the euro symbol is also on the hologram strip on the front of the 10 euro notes, in addition to the ones on the obverse I already mentioned. It's just a bit hard to see there. 21:12:56 GBX is a scowrrency 21:14:13 wait wait 21:14:13 wait 21:15:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:17:04 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49796&oldid=49795 * Total Vacuum * (-62) 21:17:24 It turns out, that on the older versions of the euro notes, printed before 2013..2015, the euro symbol is much less prominent, in particular it doesn't appear as a large white symbol printed on the top left corner on the back side. 21:17:42 That is definitely part of why I assumed the euro symbol didn't appear on the euro banknotes. 21:17:46 fizzie: ^ 21:18:23 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49797&oldid=49796 * Total Vacuum * (-3) 21:18:56 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49798&oldid=49797 * Total Vacuum * (-2) 21:19:22 <\oren\> I haven't been to greece much. My knowledge is based on searches on the internet for the google translated word for "reciept" drachma, etc 21:19:23 Most of the banknotes I've seen are from the older version. 21:19:43 <\oren\> I was there as a tiny tot 21:21:33 The euro symbol still appears on the hologram strip and on the transparent shiny strip on the old versions though. 21:22:07 <\oren\> on greek euros they spell it EYPO 21:24:19 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49799&oldid=49798 * Total Vacuum * (+19) 21:24:36 They spell it both EURO and ΕΥΡΩ on all of them. 21:25:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:25:56 <\oren\> ΕΥΡΟ 21:26:25 Which I guess makes it a scow that they haven't added ЕУРО now that people like Bulgaria have joined the club. 21:26:36 <\oren\> oh, it's an omega, not an omicron? 21:26:48 it's an omega 21:27:02 <\oren\> EYPW 21:27:14 fizzie: bulgaria? bulgaria doesn't use the euro yet 21:27:37 Oh, they *do* have ЕВРО (I guess that's how it goes there) on the new series. 21:27:40 Well, then. 21:27:44 <\oren\> evro? 21:28:08 <\oren\> is europe evropa? 21:28:08 fizzie: that's for what language? 21:28:56 <\oren\> i think it's bulgarian 21:30:23 <\oren\> it looks like in bulgarian "european union" is "evropeyski suyuz" 21:31:43 <\oren\> suyuz is like in russian but with a ъ instead of a о 21:32:45 <\oren\> and bulgraian is included because it's a minority language in a bunch of southeastern european countries 21:33:20 \oren\: in which country is it a minority language where the euro is also used? 21:33:53 oh, perhaps in greece 21:34:01 <\oren\> Hungary and Greece at least 21:34:01 I'd guess they've included it purely because of the EU membership, not because of participation in the eurozone. 21:34:39 <\oren\> is the Czech Republic in the Eurozone yet? 21:34:40 Hungary has Bulgarian as a minority language? I don't think it's well-spread here, and besides, we don't use the euro anyway 21:35:20 \oren\: no, czech republic has its own currency (currently) 21:35:32 <\oren\> hmm, I gues it must just be greece then 21:36:01 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:36:20 wob_jonas: http://www.new-euro-banknotes.eu/Euro-Banknotes/Europa-Series-Design "the name of the currency, euro, not only in the Latin (EURO) and Greek (EYPΩ) alphabets but also in the Cyrillic (EBPO) alphabet, as a result of Bulgaria joining the EU" 21:36:52 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit). 21:37:12 \oren\: it might be more because of serbian or macedonian as a minority language 21:38:28 or because they're planning in advance for more countries joining the eurozone 21:39:05 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host). 21:39:05 -!- sparr has joined. 21:39:07 The notes have also got the initials of the European Central Bank in approximately all official languages of EU member states, even those not part of the 'zone. 21:39:17 Including the Hungarian "EKB". 21:39:49 (There's a countries-and-languages list behind that link as well.) 21:40:04 <\oren\> the RMB has apparently got on it Chinese, mandarin pinyin, Mongolian, Tibetan, Uyghur (in Arabic script), and Zhuang. 21:40:05 fizzie: EKB is also only on the newer versions of the notes 21:40:25 Well, you joined later. 21:41:04 the old version has what looks like "BCE ECB EZB EKT EKP", where presumably ECB and BCE are English and French, who always reverse their acronyms 21:41:35 EKP is there just for Finnish and Estonian. 21:42:03 the newer one has "BCE ECB E EZB EKP EKT EKB BE EBC" 21:43:09 I would guess EZB is german, and the one with c with dot above is probably slovakian. 21:43:35 <\oren\> Zentral? weird 21:43:46 that's just a guess 21:43:49 I don't really know 21:44:37 <\oren\> wikipedia says Europa:ische Zentralbank 21:45:18 <\oren\> because the germans like to squeeze words together even if they would happily stand on their own 21:45:42 \oren\: yes, and zentral is definitely a real german word 21:45:49 so that sounds pretty plausible 21:48:04 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:08:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:23:22 -!- evilmoon has joined. 22:24:36 moo 22:24:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:26:43 wb oerjan 22:27:14 ty evilmoon 22:27:34 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:27:39 -!- evilmoon has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 22:27:58 -!- ubuntu has joined. 22:28:10 lol 22:28:18 @messages 22:28:22 -!- ubuntu has changed nick to Guest21462. 22:28:45 -!- Guest21462 has quit (Client Quit). 22:29:55 oerjan: i have a reversable 2d language with 3 instructions: / (mirror 1) \ (mirror 2) and < (split/join), how could i combine \ and / ? 22:30:36 why would you do that, it's nicely symmetric. also have you looked at BackFlip 22:31:21 * oerjan doesn't think anyone ever found a good way of programming it. 22:32:08 you seem to have chosen similar command characters, at least. 22:32:33 yay i have less instructions :P i came up with it during school, just chose some symbols that look like my diagrams 22:32:36 but split/join doesn't sound like what < does in backflip. 22:32:38 oerjan: nice. wasn't there also some 2d fungeoid language with only two different characters, space and a tricky one? 22:32:53 wob_jonas: Jolverine? 22:33:01 no, it's Black 22:33:03 there may be more than one. 22:33:27 (Jolverine is also reversible) 22:33:37 oerjan: what i looked at for insperation was the billard ball machine (https://esolangs.org/wiki/Billiard_ball_machine) page 22:34:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:34:51 moonythedwarf: funny way of getting inspired, the /\< chars there seem to be just for demonstration... 22:34:52 i never saw the backflip page 22:35:05 i know, i wanted to try something similar 22:35:20 now that a look at it again, i could possibly only use two instructions and diagonal only moving balls 22:35:21 as in, not actually part of the language 22:35:27 note that Black is self-modifying (modifies the contents of its instruction cells during execution) in an essential way 22:35:46 was Black reversible too... 22:36:31 wob_jonas: the topic right now is reversable languages 22:36:43 ah 22:38:24 i'm not sure it was the topic, i only remembered jolverine was reversible after mentioning it. 22:38:26 wait, which is that 2d fungeoid that has space and the four arrows as the only commands, and tiling a quarter plane with instructions? 22:39:08 i don't remember 22:40:02 it's Nopfunge 22:41:22 wob_jonas: also, Wierd may fit your question too 22:41:33 um, not the last one 22:41:37 but above 22:41:57 oerjan: say i wanted to make a one directional gate in my theoretical language 22:42:07 /\ 22:42:10 << 22:42:13 \/ 22:42:38 that would, if the 'ball' came from the left, send it back again 22:42:41 hm, Nopfunge may have been added after i gave up following the wiki. 22:42:48 in fact, actually, cut that last < in the middle line 22:44:12 moonythedwarf: note that if your language is reversible and commands don't change state, then you can only have one input path going to each output path 22:44:15 It would be easy to define a 2d language that's equivalent to Nopfunge and uses only two characters (instead of five), but what the machine does depends not only on the character under the pointer, but also on the some characters on adjacent cells. 22:44:28 and vice versa. 22:44:37 `? oerjan 22:44:45 Hmm, in fact you could make it even without that. 22:44:49 Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord quack doctor oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 22:44:50 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Solak * New user account 22:44:57 did HackEgo turn slow again 22:45:02 Let me think. 22:45:15 No wait, that wouldn't work. 22:46:08 * moonythedwarf is thinking about how to make a turing complete single instruction esolang 22:46:51 It would be easy if the pointer always had a speed of two, and the command rotated it right then displaced it by one tile forward in the new direction, so essentially you have the plane colored to four different colors, each color of square used exactly in one of the four compass directions. 22:47:48 `slwd oerjan//s/cambrian/-recombination/ 22:47:55 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord quack doctor oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Pre-recombination Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 22:52:31 \< 22:52:33 \< 22:52:38 /\ 22:52:41 \< 22:52:57 * moonythedwarf fires a 'billard ball' gun at oerjan 22:53:18 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a-vinyl-desk-toy i kinda want this 22:56:03 `ls temp 22:56:06 temp 22:56:09 Horrifying operation: Together with P[n](a, b) (hyperoperations), R[n](a, i) (hyperoperation roots), and P[n](b, x) (hyperoperation logarithms), Pw[c](a, b), Rw[c](a, b), and Lw[c](a, b) 22:56:16 `cat temp 22:56:17 making a change for the purpose of reverting it 22:56:21 hah 22:56:24 `doag temp 22:56:31 2016-09-26 ` echo making a change for the purpose of reverting it >> temp 22:56:38 Pw[c](a, b) is hyperwhich; it is equal to n s.t. P[n](a, b) = c 22:56:52 shachaf: ais523 wanted to demonstrate one of the `revert bugs but also hit the other one. 22:56:54 Rw and Lw are similar, but with R and L instead of P, respectively 22:56:55 `rm temp 22:56:57 No output. 22:57:11 `` echo demonstrating bugs > tmp/temp 22:57:14 No output. 22:57:18 `` mv tmp/temp . 22:57:22 mv: cannot stat `tmp/temp': No such file or directory 22:57:25 `cat temp tmp/temp 22:57:26 cat: temp tmp/temp: No such file or directory 22:57:30 er 22:57:34 `` cat temp tmp/temp 22:57:35 cat: temp: No such file or directory \ cat: tmp/temp: No such file or directory 22:58:38 I kind of like that. 22:58:44 Let's say it's a feature. 23:00:07 fizzie: the `` mv tmp/... thing, you mean? because the other things were bugs 23:00:09 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:00:16 Yes. 23:02:56 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 23:03:43 oerjan: are you out of quack mode 23:03:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:04:21 -!- boily has joined. 23:04:37 bonsœøirjan. 23:04:40 @massages-loud 23:04:40 oerjan asked 9h 39m 4s ago: . o O ( where *is* Roujo now? ) <-- have you checked the other channel, he's right there hth 23:04:42 -!- evilvoid has changed nick to iovoid. 23:04:54 oh hm. yes, indeed. 23:05:41 byolihi 23:06:52 shachaf: dubious 23:08:41 iovoid: hiovelloid. 23:08:58 hi 23:10:48 you were evilvoid. were you somebody else before that? 23:11:23 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:11:55 I am iovoid most of the time 23:12:54 I have 11 more nicks 23:13:26 oh, so I haven't `relcomed you yet! :D 23:13:30 `relcome iovoid 23:13:33 ​iovoid: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:14:09 there's no language called nopfuck yet? great! maybe brainfuck variants aren't as well-spread as I thought 23:15:58 is there a self-brainfuck-derivative out there, akin to how d(e^x)/dx = e^x? 23:16:20 boily: I don't really understand what you mean by that 23:16:27 d(e^x) = e^x dx 23:16:29 hth 23:16:36 yes, but 23:16:43 what would a self-brainfuck-derivative mean? 23:16:47 It's kind of funny how that has the chain rule built in. 23:16:53 aha 23:17:03 That must be the reason the dy/dx notation looks like divison. 23:17:06 division 23:17:10 It's the chain rule. 23:17:16 Do you see what I mean? 23:17:40 a derivative that is equal to its own brainfuck? a brainfuck that is equal to its own derivative? something that is equal to the brainfuck of its own derivative? something that brainfucks its derivative? 23:17:54 dy/dx *is* division. don't y'all dare tell me otherwise. 23:17:58 shachaf: yes 23:21:13 `wisdom 23:21:15 cookbook//Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc 23:21:23 I think I added that entry 23:21:49 `wisdom 23:21:51 minsky//to Minsky on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a Minsky machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer. 23:21:57 -!- Akaibu has joined. 23:22:07 `cwlprits minsky 23:22:14 fizzie evilipse oerjan 23:22:22 `dowg minsky 23:22:28 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-01-04 ` mv wisdom/minsk{i,y}; sed -i \'s/minski/Minsky/g\' wisdom/mins* 23:22:36 Oh, right. 23:22:56 why does the oerjan entry say "hungarian" and "oerlord"? 23:23:18 oerjan or shachaf: ^ 23:23:28 Why not? 23:23:41 `` dowg oerjan | grep -i hungarian 23:23:46 2016-09-16 slwd oerjan//s#overlord kommisjon\xc3\xa6r#hungarian oerlord# 23:23:55 That's why. 23:24:10 wob_jonas: oerjan ascended to hungoerjanhood hth 23:24:14 "oerlord" is because he's an overlord, but also an oerjan 23:24:24 And "o'er" is a common contraction of "over" 23:24:24 I see 23:26:12 night 23:26:15 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:26:50 `wisdom 23:26:52 lambek's lemma//Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. 23:38:39 -!- lleu has joined. 23:39:48 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:46:35 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 23:49:07 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:51:01 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:53:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AGENDA CHICKEN). 23:57:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 2016-09-27: 00:03:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:07:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:22:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:27:52 -!- adu has joined. 01:47:35 * draws a minim with a tail 01:47:41 WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW 01:47:42 ‽ 01:51:58 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:54:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Somewhere else). 01:54:26 -!- adu has joined. 01:58:28 Also fun: pi-4 time 02:04:22 -!- boily has joined. 02:05:09 `wisdom 02:05:12 nooga//no. 02:20:06 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49800&oldid=49756 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+322) 02:20:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:20:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 02:24:18 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49801&oldid=49800 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+0) 02:26:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HISTORICAL CHICKEN). 02:31:47 Hm, does it make sense to talk about "bisynthetic" or "trisynthetic" languages? A special case of polysynthetic where n=3 02:31:52 (not really sure what n is though) 02:35:43 If contract(["I", "Would", "Have"]) is "I'd-a" (it varies), is its negation "I'dn-a"? 02:36:34 princess ida 02:37:09 (Maybe it should be "I'm~a" so we have a justification to have a tilde on American keyboards) 02:37:33 (For "I'm-a", not "I'd-a") 02:37:58 I'mn-a -> "I am not going to" 02:39:03 `wisdom 02:39:04 roujo//Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. He does not understand shell quoting. 02:39:09 `wisdom 02:39:10 itay//Itay is Christmas in Italy. 02:39:23 `cwlprits itay 02:39:24 fizzie evilipse oerjan 02:39:36 this evilipse person is scow 02:39:48 messing up our cluprits 02:43:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:08:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:47 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:30:03 -!- rodgort has joined. 03:47:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:50:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:53:20 `? fish 03:53:21 Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. 04:15:41 So I've watched a couple of "Moskau" misheard lyrics videos. 04:16:10 It turns out some of the misheard lyrics are actually accurate translations! 04:16:20 Consider, for example, "Come and dance and love the fish". 04:16:47 Apparently the German lyric is "Komm wir tanzen auf dem Tisch", which is translated as "Come and dance on a table". 04:17:02 Of course, it's no coincidence that the German words for "come" and "dance" sound similar to the English words. 04:18:58 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:20:11 -!- Alcest has joined. 04:33:12 -!- mrnaysayer has quit (Quit: zonkzonk). 04:33:19 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 04:53:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:59:30 I'm playing with pyaudio 04:59:47 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 04:59:58 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:00:00 I got stereo working; I'm playing sinewave middle c in one ear and cosinewave middle c in the other 05:00:07 moonythedwarf: It's amazing 05:00:11 moo 05:00:19 lol 05:00:54 -!- jix has joined. 05:01:51 -poke hppavilion[1] 05:01:51 * otherbot pokes hppavilion[1] 05:05:27 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: "cosinewave" u do realize sine and cosine are the same just shifted by a quarter wavelength right? 05:05:46 \oren\: Yes 05:06:03 \oren\: But stereo sine-cosine sounded distinctly different from stereo sine-sine 05:06:17 (and, for that matter, from stereo cosine-cosine) 05:06:26 So I consider them to be different for stereo purposes 05:06:44 i don't know anything about sound but presumably stereo cosine-cosine at least sounds the same as stereo sine-sine 05:09:02 shachaf: Yes, it does 05:09:05 AFAICT 05:09:12 Which is why it was an afterthought 05:14:06 why not just "stereo in-phase sounds different from stereo out-of-phase"? 05:14:33 (as it should, as it's one way to create a surround sound effect) 05:15:19 What are other ways? 05:19:32 <\oren\> shachaf: you can also use fade in fade out 05:20:03 https://twitter.com/letoams/status/779490839584186368 m( 05:21:37 <\oren\> myname: AAAAAAA 05:22:42 AAAAAA 05:22:46 A 05:24:01 good trick 05:25:43 * moonythedwarf goes off to register www.com 05:26:10 darn beaten 05:26:21 I'm pretty sure most of the www.* domains are taken 05:26:22 moonythedwarf: Of COURSE you're beaten 05:26:31 Hoolootwo: www.ninja 05:26:44 hell.666 05:26:49 http://hell.666 05:26:50 www.space? 05:26:54 hmm, wow 05:26:59 Hoolootwo: www.spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace 05:28:20 myname: Try the mars-wide web (mww) 05:28:46 Shouldn't 'www' just be 'sextuple u' 05:30:39 uuuuuu.horse 05:31:25 uu.uu.uu.foo.bar might be nice to confuse people on your domain 05:31:54 "it's dpuble-u, double-u, double-u, fpo, bar" 05:32:06 "triple-u triple-u" sounds pretty good. 05:32:16 myname: Why 'dpuble"? 05:32:17 triple-u triple-u dot esolangs dot org 05:32:23 Oh, it wass a mistake 05:35:26 myname: 'double-u dot double-u dot double-u dot foo dot bar' 05:37:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:37:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:47:09 Nuclear Thumb War 05:57:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:59:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:21:15 -!- mad has joined. 06:21:23 sup 06:21:41 `? u 06:21:42 u monad? 06:22:46 I've looked at if C++ compilers can automatically classify variables as either pointer/array indexes, and all other variables 06:22:50 I think it's doable 06:23:10 in SSA form you can just check if the results end up in load address computations and backtrack 06:23:17 plus pointers have specific types ofc 06:25:25 so you could do a cpu where pointers, indexes, and other integer values live on separate register files and target it with ordinary compilers 06:28:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:34:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:44:31 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 06:50:05 which would let you run addressing operations way beforehand, which is one of the major advantages more complex cpus have 06:51:01 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 06:51:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:56:02 -!- heroux has joined. 06:58:41 thelettervsixtim.es 07:13:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:28:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:48:54 -!- carado has joined. 08:07:17 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:08:57 somewhere else somebody asked on how you can produce a single space in a posix shell without any whitespace in your commands 08:11:00 As in the output of echo -n ' '? 08:11:28 yep 08:11:34 but without all that whitespace 08:11:36 but without the 3 spaces you used 08:11:45 Is the output of echo ' ' good enough? 08:11:52 shachaf: 2 spaces 08:12:01 What? 08:12:09 I'm asking for a problem specification, not suggesting a solution. 08:12:11 echo ' ' 08:12:15 ^ ^ 08:12:21 i guess, i am not sure 08:12:28 Are you using the least charitable interpretation of what I'm saying on purpose? 08:12:44 If a newline is OK, you can cat<<<$'\x20' 08:12:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:12:59 shachaf: not posix 08:13:07 Ah, POSIX. 08:13:22 printf '\40' 08:13:27 okay, seems like newlines also are unwanted 08:14:08 okay, i was told bash is okay, but \ and ' are not 08:14:13 Is this exploiting some program that executes arbitrary shell commands without spaces? 08:14:20 basicall, yeah 08:14:55 i don't know what he wants to do eith that, but i thought it's some nice puzzle 08:17:51 -!- nycs has joined. 08:19:36 This is a pretty incomplete puzzle description. 08:19:40 Better to give the real problem. 08:19:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:22:16 I should get a bunch of white t-shirts that have a font name printed on them in that font 08:22:17 Every day 08:22:32 no, printed in _another_ font 08:22:58 like, helvetica printed in times new roman 08:23:31 myname: No, that's not geeky enough 08:23:40 oh yes it is 08:23:40 myname: I want it to be distinguishable 08:23:47 myname: No, it has to be correct 08:23:55 (I should probably include neoletters...) 08:24:10 that guy who rapes english tells me tshirts need to be correct? 08:24:47 the advantage of the wrong font thing is that you immediately can befriend anybody who corrects you 08:25:00 myname: Oh yeah... 08:25:09 Maybe I'll have a bonus shirt that is intentionally wrong? 08:26:18 Should the back have a table on it? 08:33:46 All fonts should support double-italics... 09:07:39 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49802&oldid=49799 * Total Vacuum * (+1502) 09:10:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:11:47 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49803&oldid=49802 * Total Vacuum * (+65) 09:13:00 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49804&oldid=49803 * Total Vacuum * (+2) /* goal */ 09:17:50 We have a bunch of dashboard links that contain the word "dash" in them, which are p. tricky to mention out loud. 09:17:53 E.g. "foo-dash-bar" -- if you say "foo dash bar", people assume "foo-bar", but "foo dash dash dash bar" is p. ridiculous as well. 09:18:12 foo hyphen dash minus bar 09:24:41 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49805&oldid=49593 * Total Vacuum * (+90) 09:34:54 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49806&oldid=49804 * Total Vacuum * (-28) 09:45:36 fizzie: normally you use accents to distinguish them, don't you? 09:45:54 foo-dash-(accented)-dash-(unaccented)-dash 09:46:30 -bar* 09:47:02 in terms of relative pitch (1--5), sth like 3-2-5-1-4 09:50:01 It's still a little confusing. Because dash is the default separator and it's a common link, people just use "foo dash" (not "foo dash dash") for foo-dash, so the natural extension would be "foo dash bar" for foo-dash-bar, and indeed that even works most of the time, except when bar happens to be such that foo-bar is also plausible. 10:38:55 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:40:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:47:08 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 10:47:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:53:21 myname: echo${IFS}""${IFS}"" 10:53:25 myname: and it's a nice puzzle 10:53:51 shachaf: ^ 10:53:56 nice 10:56:39 Ah, separating with an unquoted whitespace variable. 10:58:15 shachaf: yes, but the hard part was getting such a variable. I tried $(echo;echo) first but that doesn't work, the backtick strips ALL the newlines, not only the last one 11:01:53 But now $ or { is " is going to be banned. 11:02:58 this works but I think it isn't POSIX shell: s[0]=;s[1]=;echo${s[*]}"${s[*]}" 11:03:43 this I think also isn't POSIX shell: t=$'\x20';echo${t}hello 11:03:49 um 11:04:05 this I think also isn't POSIX shell: t=$'\x20';echo${t}"${t}" 11:06:14 This should work too: IFS=Z;t=Z;echo${t}""${t}" 11:07:41 shachaf: you can do without double quotes I think 11:08:21 If you're allowing ' and \ you can just do the thing I did above. 11:09:13 shachaf: you did where? 11:09:28 cat<<<$'\x20' 11:09:37 shachaf: anyway, the braces aren't essential, echo$IFS""$IFS"" works still 11:09:50 $'' isn't POSIX 11:09:58 shachaf: I'm quite sure that's not posix shell. both the triple left angle and the dollar apostrophe are late bash extensions 11:10:17 in the sense that I started to program bash back when the triple left angle didn't yet exist 11:10:20 Yes. I was referring to your t=$'... thing. 11:11:11 it would be pretty hard without a dollar sign I think 11:11:37 maybe you could do some magic with backticks and some suitable program that prints a space, but I don't see how 11:12:08 probably possible somehow 11:12:27 my initial attempt was foo=id;echo${foo:...:1} 11:12:41 foo=`id` 11:12:45 myname: oh yes! that could work 11:12:57 But that still uses $ 11:13:06 yes 11:14:08 for the record, the initial guy gave up because of { being banned made using the space way harder 11:15:23 myname: you could make that work like this: t=$(echo|pr);t=${t%%[0-9]*};echo$t""$t"" 11:16:08 myname: it's possible with id too, but echo|pr is funnier, because then you can write ${t%%1*} and commit a nasty Y2K bug 11:16:10 i never heard of pr 11:16:47 hmm, is pr even in posix? it's an ancient unix utility which doesn't get much use these days, like dc and ul, but I'm not sure it's in posix 11:17:29 in any case, you could extract a space from $(date) too, if you cut both the beginning and the end 11:19:07 yes, pr is among the POSIX utilities! 11:19:09 heh 11:19:21 but date would also work 11:20:40 i am a little sad that i didn't found a way to use about:%20 11:21:03 and so would a lot of utilities that print at least a space, such as ps, cal, and probably even (nasty) yes&jobs 11:21:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:21:28 hmm no, yes isn't a posix utility 11:21:48 what about yes, no 11:23:12 this would be much easier in the DOS shell by the way, where comma and semicolon and slash also separate arguments, and in some cases dot does too 11:23:25 oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials 11:23:45 though actually all that stuff wouldn't help you print just a space, because the DOS shell and utilities suck 11:23:59 :D 11:24:18 and microsoft hasn't learned a thing 11:25:15 myname: well, the current shell and utilities is very different 11:25:37 powershell is more like a replacement for perl 11:26:33 powershell is horrible too. they made the same mistakes as in the shell in different ways, but they have no excuse for it that time because they don't have to care for historical compatibility 11:26:49 I write simple perl scripts on windows, because that actually works 11:27:11 whatcmistakes 11:27:14 there are some very simple tasks that you can't do with the shell, and you also can't do with perl because windows, but perl gets much closer to it 11:27:27 I dunno, I don't use powershell, ask the gurus 11:27:54 or search on the net or something 11:29:39 oerjan: So that thing is just the chain rule for second derivatives, of course. 11:30:32 But why are there two different dxs? 11:31:57 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%5E2(f(g(x)))%2Fdx%5E2 11:32:25 g, g', g'' is always evaluated at x. f', f'' is always evaluated at g(x) 11:32:45 @tell zzo38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials 11:32:45 Consider it noted. 11:33:15 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:24 `wisdom 11:37:26 quine//`? quine 11:57:11 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49807&oldid=49806 * Total Vacuum * (-1) 12:21:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PENGUIN CHICKEN). 12:32:42 -!- igor_ has joined. 12:45:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:00:27 -!- igor_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:09:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:13:45 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:36:50 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49808&oldid=49807 * Total Vacuum * (-14) 14:01:53 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 14:03:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:14:12 -!- evilmoon has joined. 14:39:58 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:40:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:58:20 `dowg nooga 14:58:21 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2014-01-14 echo "no." > wisdom/nooga \ 2013-07-31 revert \ 2013-07-31 for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 2013-03-12 revert 2416 \ 2013-03-12 Hi 14:58:37 ho 14:59:18 `` dowg nooga | tac 14:59:19 2012-02-16 Initial import. \ 2012-04-08 run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 2012-04-08 revert 0 \ 2012-10-06 run rm -rf wisdom \ 2012-10-06 revert \ 2013-03-02 learn nooga hate OS X. NOOGA SMASH. Hug not allowed. \ 2013-03-12 revert 2243 \ 2013-03-12 revert 2416 \ 2013-07-31 for x in wi 14:59:30 dowg? 14:59:48 `cat bin/dowg 14:59:49 doag "wisdom/$1" 14:59:56 `cat bin/doag 14:59:56 hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@" 15:01:19 the d is for date, the w is for wisdom, and the og is for log hth 15:01:25 I see 15:02:51 and the a is for all, i think, although it's all as opposed to without --removed, so is sort of redundant since that's used for all except the original `hog 15:03:26 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49809&oldid=49808 * Total Vacuum * (+1) /* goal */ 15:03:27 * oerjan hopes that parses 15:07:03 -!- dahk has joined. 15:07:43 `relcome dahk 15:07:44 ​dahk: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 15:10:52 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: Fing). 15:12:38 -!- ybden has joined. 15:13:04 [wiki] [[Bf core]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49810&oldid=49809 * Total Vacuum * (-44) 15:13:42 -!- dahk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:13:49 `dowg fish 15:13:51 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-08-22 le/rn fish/Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. 15:17:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:29:41 -!- nycs has joined. 15:31:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:47:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:52:37 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 15:52:41 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:55:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:59:59 -!- wiggle has changed nick to Time-Wrap. 16:11:49 -!- super_bender has joined. 16:12:21 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:33 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 16:25:35 moo 16:25:48 -!- Elronnd has joined. 16:26:25 -!- evilmoon has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 16:28:22 * moonythedwarf prods wob_jonas 16:28:27 * moonythedwarf prods oerjan 16:28:30 * moonythedwarf prods Time-Wrap 16:28:37 stop that 16:29:07 ok ^_^ 16:29:11 `? fish 16:29:12 Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. 16:29:19 `? ><> 16:29:19 ​><>? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:29:23 `? bf 16:29:24 bf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:29:27 `? brainfuck 16:29:28 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array 16:29:44 `mklang 16:29:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mklang: not found 16:30:10 `? moon_ 16:30:10 moon_? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:30:14 `? moon 16:30:15 Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification. 16:40:52 `which ? 16:40:53 ​/hackenv/bin/? 16:40:56 lol 16:41:02 `pwd 16:41:03 ​/hackenv 16:41:12 `ls -al bin 16:41:13 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 16:41:24 `` ls -al bin 16:41:25 total 18004 \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 105 Sep 25 20:32 ` \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 64 Sep 25 20:32 `` \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 17 Sep 25 20:31 ^.^ \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 8 Sep 25 20:31 ̊ \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Sep 25 20:31 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Sep 25 20:31 ! -> interp \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 16:41:50 `` cat bin/ 16:41:50 cat: bin/: Is a directory 16:41:53 `` cat bin/? 16:41:54 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooooooodl \ echo hi \ exec \ #!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed 16:49:10 `? 16:49:11 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:49:13 `` ? 16:49:14 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:49:37 `` which rnooooooodl 16:49:38 No output. 16:50:06 moonythedwarf: have fun being a lunartic 16:53:35 `` ls ? 16:53:36 ls: cannot access ?: No such file or directory 16:53:41 `` ls bin/? 16:53:42 bin/` \ bin/̊ \ bin/ \ bin/! \ bin/? \ bin/¿ \ bin/' \ bin/" \ bin/@ \ bin/* \ bin/؟ \ bin/ \ bin/ \ bin/1 \ bin/5 \ bin/f \ bin/h \ bin/q 16:54:05 `` cd bin; echo ? 16:54:06 ​` ̊ ! ? ¿ ' " @ * ؟ 1 5 f h q 16:54:20 `` cd bin;echo ?|cat -v 16:54:21 ​` M-LM-^J ! ? M-BM-? ' " @ * M-XM-^_ ^O ^V 1 5 f h q 16:54:30 ``` cd bin;echo ?|cat -v 16:54:31 ​^O ^V ! " ' * 1 5 ? @ ` f h q 16:54:59 i'm not entirely sure how `` ? ends up having the same effect as `? 16:55:02 `` ? test 16:55:03 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 16:55:12 something is wrong here 16:55:15 `run ? test 16:55:15 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 16:55:25 ``` ? test 16:55:26 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 16:55:33 `` echo ? 16:55:34 ​? 16:55:43 ``` cd bin;echo ?|cat -vT 16:55:43 ​^O ^V ! " ' * 1 5 ? @ ` f h q 16:55:48 what? 16:55:53 ``` "bin/?" test 16:55:54 oh wait, right 16:55:54 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 16:56:06 `? test 16:56:07 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 16:56:10 oh, I see 16:56:14 the ? doesn't expand unless it's in a directory with a single-character file. 16:56:16 I'm stupid 16:56:29 `` cd bin; ? test 16:56:30 hi 16:56:54 `mkx a//a ha ha ha 16:56:56 a 16:57:00 `` ? test 16:57:01 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: a: command not found 16:57:05 `rm a 16:57:06 No output. 16:57:12 so i was just confused. 16:57:24 ``` cat bin/$'\x0f' 16:57:25 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooooooooodl 16:57:46 no wait, you used `` that means ? expands to something else 16:58:00 `` cd bin;echo ?|cat -vT 16:58:00 ​` M-LM-^J ! ? M-BM-? ' " @ * M-XM-^_ ^O ^V 1 5 f h q 16:59:16 <\oren\> . o O (bigelow aerospace sounds like a space brothel) 16:59:17 ``` cat bin/$'\xCC\x90' 16:59:18 cat: bin/̐: No such file or directory 16:59:35 ``` cat bin/$'\xCC\x8a' 16:59:36 echo hi 16:59:39 that 16:59:51 that's the one you executed, through an extra indirection of bin/` 17:04:30 <^v> o_o 17:04:52 <^v> @wob_jonas, appears to be pinging me 17:04:52 Unknown command, try @list 17:05:06 ^v: yes, it does. sorry. 17:05:12 <^v> XD 17:05:25 <^v> hey, on EsperNet my nick is literally "ping" 17:05:29 <^v> im used to it 17:05:32 you can try choosing a longer nick. 17:07:21 wob_jonas: no, i did not. ? didn't expand because there's no file in pwd it can expand to. 17:07:43 the contents of bin/ are irrelevant, that's what i was confused about. 17:07:57 <\oren\> My name is rarely pinged, but I have a ping on "font" and "unicode" 17:08:09 oerjan: it did expand when you said "`` cd bin; ? test" 17:08:14 yes. 17:08:48 \oren\: and on "oren"? 17:08:55 <\oren\> yes 17:09:04 <\oren\> and "orin" 17:09:48 <\oren\> Until I was 7 or so, I wasn't sure whether to spell it with a i or an e 17:10:09 you were such an oron 17:11:01 <\oren\> lol 17:11:03 oerjan: im pretty sure im not a murderous LUNAtic 17:11:06 `? moon 17:11:07 Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification. 17:11:25 moonythedwarf: i'm pretty sure that information was based on channel evidence at the time. 17:11:39 true enough lol 17:12:36 `which ` 17:12:36 ​/hackenv/bin/` 17:12:42 `cat bin/` 17:12:42 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl 17:12:54 `which rnooodl 17:12:54 ​/hackenv/bin/rnooodl 17:12:59 `echo yay | rnooodl 17:13:00 yay | rnooodl 17:13:07 `` echo yay | rnooodl 17:13:08 yay 17:13:17 `` cat bin/rnooodl 17:13:18 perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge' 17:13:25 `` rnooodl 17:13:37 jeffl35: it only affects a few words. i tried expanding it once, but that was simply _too_ annoying. 17:13:49 oerjan: what is it supposed to do? 17:13:54 `? noodles 17:13:56 Noooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. 17:13:56 No output. 17:13:58 lol 17:14:31 Taneb 17:14:48 `? cat 17:14:50 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 17:14:56 `? sl 17:14:57 sl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:14:59 `? ls 17:14:59 L is far too short to be a village in Wales. 17:15:10 `? man 17:15:11 man? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:15:22 `? ¯\(°​_o)/ 17:15:23 cat: ¯\(°​_o)/: Is a directory 17:15:26 moonythedwarf 17:17:35 `learn Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a small island. 17:17:36 * moonythedwarf prods Taneb 17:17:37 Learned 'man': Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a small island. 17:17:57 As islands go, it's not /tiny/ 17:17:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:19:05 It's in the top 500 17:19:56 darn 17:21:07 `learn Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a minor island. 17:21:09 Relearned 'man': Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a minor island. 17:21:14 let's woozle out 17:22:25 Ireland is, relatively speaking, one small step from Man 17:22:54 Or possibly Sodor 17:26:45 `echo noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! | rnoodl 17:26:46 noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! | rnoodl 17:26:50 `echo noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! | rnooodl 17:26:51 noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! | rnooodl 17:27:00 `` echo noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! | rnooodl 17:27:01 noooooo! no i wont do it nooo! 17:27:16 oerjan: what does rnooodl do? 17:27:59 `` echo n | rnooodl 17:28:00 n 17:29:17 learn2s/// 17:30:35 `` echo blah | rnooodl 17:30:36 blah 17:30:55 `` cat bin/rnooodl | rnooodl 17:30:56 perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge' 17:31:16 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:16 noooodl 17:31:26 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:26 noooooodl 17:31:28 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:28 noooooooodl 17:31:31 ah 17:31:32 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:32 noooodl 17:31:34 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:34 nooooooodl 17:31:38 `` echo nooodl | rnooodl 17:31:38 nooooodl 17:31:46 random noodles i think 17:32:02 `wisdom 17:32:03 sparta//WE. DON'T. KNOW. ANYTHING. ABOUT. SPARTA! 17:32:12 `wisdom 17:32:14 pumping lemma//nooooodl's pumping lemma for wisdom entries states that for any sufficiently long valid wisdom entry, there exists a letter that can be repeated any number of times. 17:32:26 `` killall 1 17:32:27 1: no process found 17:32:30 `` killall init 17:32:31 that's quite approperiate 17:32:31 init(1): Operation not permitted \ init(285): Operation not permitted 17:32:33 lol 17:32:38 `wisdom 17:32:39 deniability//Deniability was not invented by Taneb. 17:32:45 lol 17:32:47 lol 17:32:48 `wisdom 17:32:49 ehird//ehird is the person who Taneb definitely isn't. 17:32:52 `wisdom 17:32:52 `` killall -SIGSEGV init && killall -SIGILL init 17:32:53 init(1): Operation not permitted \ init(285): Operation not permitted 17:32:54 finn//Finns are helpful, albeit grossly overpopulated (cf. 'Finland'). 17:32:56 lol 17:32:59 `? people who taneb isn't 17:32:59 people who taneb isn't? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:33:02 um 17:33:03 `wisdom 17:33:04 conspirabiology//conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. 17:33:14 `` which init 17:33:15 No output. 17:33:18 `` init 17:33:19 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: init: command not found 17:33:22 `` /etc/init 17:33:23 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /etc/init: No such file or directory 17:33:29 `` /lib/systemd/systemd 17:33:29 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /lib/systemd/systemd: No such file or directory 17:33:37 `` /sbin/init 17:33:38 init: must be superuser. 17:33:39 `wisdom 17:33:39 `wisdom 17:33:40 cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte". 17:33:41 balrog//Balrogs live at the bottom of the world. 17:33:49 `` /sbin/init --help 17:33:49 init: must be superuser. 17:33:53 `wisdom 17:33:53 `` telinit 6 17:33:54 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: telinit: command not found 17:33:54 ​⌨//You are probably using one right now! 17:34:02 `` /sbin/init 6 17:34:02 init: must be superuser. 17:34:05 lol 17:34:09 `? people who taneb is not 17:34:10 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 17:34:25 -!- augur_ has joined. 17:34:26 what happened to wisdom? 17:34:26 `wisdom 17:34:27 wealhtheow//Wealhtheow is the barkeep in the tavern where the adventuring party of Beowulf meet at the start of the story. 17:34:35 `? 17:34:37 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:34:39 `? 1 17:34:40 The 1 is just for disambiguation. 17:34:50 -!- mega_bender has joined. 17:34:59 err 17:35:04 my network must be slow 17:35:17 apparently there's a bug in the signal handler in systemd that causes it to not catch a signal when SIGSEGV/SIGILL are sent at almost the same time 17:36:36 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:36:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:36:58 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:36:58 ``` cd wisdom;for x in *[tT]aneb*;echo "$x";done 17:36:58 ``` cd wisdom;for x in *[tT]aneb*;do echo "$x";done 17:36:58 what? 17:36:58 `ping 17:36:58 @ping 17:36:58 am I disconnected again? 17:36:58 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:36:58 Uh Oh 17:36:59 pong 17:36:59 pong 17:36:59 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `echo' \ bash: -c: line 0: `cd wisdom;for x in *[tT]aneb*;echo "$x";done' 17:37:00 fundamental theorem of taneb \ people who taneb is not \ taneb \ tanebvention \ tanebventions: math \ tanebventory 17:37:04 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:37:05 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:37:08 `ping 17:37:09 pong 17:37:09 `ping 17:37:09 pong 17:37:09 `ping 17:37:11 shoot 17:37:11 pong 17:37:12 -!- vifino has joined. 17:37:14 -!- kragniz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:37:14 uh oh 17:37:16 netsplit? 17:37:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:20 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:20 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:21 freenode must be getting DDOSed 17:37:22 UH OH 17:37:22 or a netsplit 17:37:24 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 273 seconds). 17:37:24 -!- MDead has joined. 17:37:26 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:37:26 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:37:27 ``` cd wisdom;for x in *[tT]aneb*;do echo "$x";done 17:37:29 fundamental theorem of taneb \ people who taneb is not \ taneb \ tanebvention \ tanebventions: math \ tanebventory 17:37:31 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:37:31 moonythedwarf: probably netsplit 17:37:34 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 17:37:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:36 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:37 unless the kiddies are back at it again 17:37:37 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:37:37 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:37:38 `? people who taneb is not 17:37:39 -!- mad has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:37:39 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 17:38:01 -!- clog_ has joined. 17:38:07 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:38:15 -!- Melvar` has joined. 17:38:16 -!- clog_ has changed nick to clog. 17:38:17 freenod-overflow is overflowing 17:38:24 -!- Froox has joined. 17:38:25 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:38:28 -!- kragniz1 has joined. 17:38:28 ''In the context of polynomial identity testing, Howard Karloff used the expression "finding a hay in a haystack", referring to the fact that we look for the explicit expression of an element that has a property that is shared by almost every element of a set.'' 17:38:29 something is wrong 17:38:33 -!- jix has joined. 17:38:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:38:40 rip 17:38:48 i think ddos 17:38:51 +1 17:39:10 izalove: that sounds about right 17:39:13 jeffl35: down: kornbluth, morgan(v6), niven, sinisalo, weber 17:39:19 definitely seems like it 17:39:23 it's a cool way to say it 17:39:28 izalove: mind you, a deterministic primality test is like that too 17:39:38 since we know a good random primality test 17:39:41 in fact, 17:39:41 we may have got netsplit 17:39:46 primality testing isn't like that 17:39:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:39:59 primality testing is checking if what you have is a hay or a needle 17:40:03 trying to find a determinized version of any good randomized algorithm is like trying to find a hay in a haystack, 17:40:04 oerjan: freenode took a hit to the nose 17:40:18 wat 17:40:22 since the random algorithm works because the stack has a lot of hay 17:40:30 notice the huge amounts of disconnects 17:40:33 -!- sparr has joined. 17:40:44 me and jeffl35 suspect either netsplit or DDOS 17:40:44 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:40:52 moonythedwarf: ddos 17:40:56 netsplit isn't taht big 17:41:12 there is a DDOS 17:41:12 moonythedwarf: no, it's just coming out of the lake after a swim and shaking itself like a dog. people fall from itself like the water droplets. 17:41:32 confirmed in #freenode 17:41:52 -!- nycs has joined. 17:42:50 nvm its a netsplit 17:43:00 a really strange one 17:43:06 moonythedwarf: maybe a hub went down 17:43:13 because otherwise that many servers won't go down at once 17:43:18 and if so 17:43:27 usually it's a *.net *.split not millions of ping timeouts 17:44:33 -!- relrod_ has joined. 17:44:36 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host). 17:44:36 -!- relrod_ has joined. 17:44:39 -!- Froo has joined. 17:45:41 -!- Alcest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:45:49 -!- MDead has joined. 17:46:47 -!- Guest66676 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:46:55 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:13 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:47:13 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 17:47:15 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 17:47:16 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:47:19 -!- ybden has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:47:20 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 17:47:28 -!- Yurume____ has joined. 17:47:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:47:38 again? :( 17:47:42 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:47:52 yeah >_< 17:47:58 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:48:00 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:48:03 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:48:04 -!- Cale has joined. 17:48:05 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:48:06 -!- pdxleif has joined. 17:48:06 -!- kragniz1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:48:06 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:48:07 -!- Melvar`` has joined. 17:48:11 -!- Yurume___ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:48:12 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:48:17 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:48:18 -!- rodgort has joined. 17:48:54 -!- ^v has joined. 17:48:58 -!- kragniz1 has joined. 17:51:06 -!- sparr has joined. 17:51:16 -!- Akaibu has joined. 17:51:27 -!- ybden has joined. 17:53:52 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to rip_freenode. 17:53:57 @ping 17:53:57 pong 17:55:19 -!- rip_freenode has changed nick to moonytherip_free. 17:55:22 oerjan_: No, the a in hoag stood for Jonathan Hoag originally. 17:55:29 -!- moonytherip_free has changed nick to moony_rip_freeno. 17:55:34 -!- moony_rip_freeno has changed nick to moonrip_freenode. 17:55:57 Well, maybe it also stands for all. I wouldn't know. 17:56:00 whoever that is. 17:56:02 -!- moonrip_freenode has changed nick to moonyhtedwaf. 17:56:06 lul 17:56:08 -!- moonyhtedwaf has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 17:56:28 -!- ski has joined. 17:56:55 -!- \oren\ has joined. 17:57:57 -!- Guest66666 has joined. 18:00:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:02:30 shachaf: no such person tdnh 18:02:39 ? 18:03:02 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unpleasant_Profession_of_Jonathan_Hoag 18:03:06 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Berger_(singer) 18:03:35 -!- aloril has joined. 18:03:41 sorry, there's no such page hth 18:10:52 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:10:53 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:10:57 -!- Melvar has joined. 18:10:59 -!- vifino- has joined. 18:11:05 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:05 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:16 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:11:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:11:33 -!- Cale_ has joined. 18:11:47 `ping 18:11:48 pong 18:11:53 -!- Melvar`` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:11:57 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:11:58 -!- Guest66666 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:11:58 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:12:12 -!- pdxleif has joined. 18:12:27 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:13:44 -!- rodgort has joined. 18:13:55 -!- Time-Wrap has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-639-4a7554b - http://znc.in). 18:14:07 -!- hue has joined. 18:15:03 -!- jeffl35 has changed nick to 32NAB4T1V. 18:15:08 -!- kragniz1 has changed nick to kragniz. 18:16:03 -!- sparr has joined. 18:16:31 -!- 32NAB4T1V has changed nick to jeffl35. 18:17:28 -!- Guest66666 has joined. 18:21:08 oerjan: indeed, again 18:21:39 -!- hue- has joined. 18:21:45 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale. 18:21:48 -!- hue has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:21:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:22:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:22:05 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 18:22:20 oerjan: 18:22:20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials <-- ooh 18:22:30 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:22:32 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:22:32 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:22:33 -!- Guest66676 has joined. 18:22:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:22:50 -!- \oren\ has joined. 18:22:52 -!- Guest66666 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:23:13 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 18:23:53 oerjan> oerjan: 18:23:53 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials <-- ooh 18:25:23 -!- aloril has joined. 18:25:27 -!- ^v has joined. 18:28:03 -!- kline has quit (*.net *.split). 18:28:10 da spam is realz 18:29:36 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Quit: Look ma, no logs!). 18:32:32 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 18:32:38 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 18:33:08 -!- pdxleif has joined. 18:33:19 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:34:20 -!- Cale has joined. 18:34:59 -!- dingbat has joined. 18:35:17 -!- kline has joined. 18:36:13 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 18:37:50 -!- newsham has joined. 18:39:06 <\oren\> argh why is my connection dying, i'm in a datacentre in virginia! 18:39:50 <\oren\> (well, my irssi process is. my physical presence still inhabits Toronto) 18:41:43 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 18:42:04 \oren\: DDOS 18:42:08 see #freenode 18:42:10 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:45:47 Physical presences really get in the way of things 18:45:51 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 18:48:13 -!- hue- has changed nick to hue. 18:56:35 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qo78R_yYFA <--- OMG WTF LOL 18:56:46 <\oren\> Elon Musk is going all in 18:58:39 ok 18:59:49 koffically workng on better typing practices 19:01:36 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to ][. 19:02:57 -!- ][ has changed nick to updownleftright. 19:07:56 -!- Iuvenelicus has joined. 19:08:44 -!- Iuvenelicus has quit (Client Quit). 19:08:52 -!- Iuvenelicus has joined. 19:09:06 -!- irctc562 has joined. 19:09:29 -!- irctc562 has quit (Client Quit). 19:10:28 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:10:42 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:11:01 -!- ^v has joined. 19:11:18 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:11:34 -!- Cale has joined. 19:15:15 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to updownleftrightb. 19:15:20 -!- updownleftrightb has changed nick to Bowserinator. 19:15:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:17:32 -!- jix has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:18:31 -!- Iuvenelicus has left. 19:20:57 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:20:59 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:21:33 -!- Iuvenelicus_ has joined. 19:21:39 -!- Iuvenelicus_ has left. 19:21:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:18 -!- jix has joined. 19:22:21 so apparently Google Sheets can be considered Turing complete (you can make all sorts of logic gates in it too) 19:22:25 -!- dingbat has joined. 19:23:56 yeah, naturally 19:24:39 * updownleftright runs off to goof off in google sheets 19:25:03 -!- sparr has joined. 19:25:14 -!- pdxleif has joined. 19:25:16 <\oren\> I want a spreadsheet program that uses Ncurses instead of a stupid GUI 19:27:08 lol 19:28:33 \oren\: sc? 19:29:03 http://blog.startaylor.net/2016/08/29/sc/ 19:30:31 <\oren\> the earliest spreadsheets did that 19:30:31 <\oren\> hmm, let me google that 19:30:33 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YxNYiyALg 19:31:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:32:01 I don't use it myself, but I've been meaning to learn sc 19:33:25 -!- newsham has joined. 19:33:44 * updownleftright wonders how hard making a hq9+ interp in Google Sheets would be 19:39:34 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 19:39:47 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:40:06 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:40:12 -!- jix has joined. 19:40:34 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:41:05 -!- dingbat has joined. 19:46:32 -!- clog has joined. 20:04:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:06:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:07:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:12:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:14:20 @botsnack 20:14:20 :) 20:26:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:27:00 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:27:09 -!- pdxleif_ has joined. 20:27:13 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:27:19 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:27:19 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:27:20 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:27:28 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:27:57 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:27:57 -!- pdxleif_ has changed nick to pdxleif. 20:27:58 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 20:27:59 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:28:37 -!- ^v has joined. 20:28:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:30:25 uh 20:30:40 which fold are you always meant to use in haskell 20:31:38 -!- feliks has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:33:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:34:15 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:34:15 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:07 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:07 -!- izalove has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:08 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:11 -!- int-e has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:35:11 hmm, was it the catamorphism? 20:35:35 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:36 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:41 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:35:43 -!- ineiros has joined. 20:36:10 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:36:11 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:36:15 -!- dingbat has joined. 20:36:25 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:27 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 20:36:27 which fold are you always meant to use in haskell 20:36:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:32 -!- alercah has joined. 20:36:37 -!- erdic has joined. 20:37:09 -!- ^v has joined. 20:37:32 -!- catern has joined. 20:38:11 -!- izalove has joined. 20:38:46 -!- Cale has joined. 20:39:47 `hi Cale 20:39:49 Hi Cale. Hale. 20:40:12 Cale: what do you think of http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1943056/is-a-topology-freely-generated-by-a-subbasis 20:40:20 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:42:36 -!- feliks has joined. 20:43:47 -!- pelegreno___ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:44:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:44:39 -!- espes_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:44:47 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:45:03 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:45:04 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:45:08 -!- \oren\_ has joined. 20:45:08 -!- int-e has joined. 20:45:24 -!- pelegreno___ has joined. 20:45:37 I think that answer works 20:45:39 -!- ^v has joined. 20:45:51 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:47:33 -!- pdxleif has joined. 20:48:21 I like that answer. 20:48:37 But is that person also implying that the sort of thing I was talking about wouldn't work? 20:51:18 no glogbot :/ 20:51:43 Maybe you can make a free complete Heyting algebra or free frame or something from the poset? 20:51:45 err, I mean clog, though glogbot is missing too 20:51:49 <\oren\_> youtube is glitching out for me 20:52:10 <\oren\_> All the videos where anyone is speaking have the voices replaced with warpling 20:52:14 Cale: Also I'm a bit surprised that it's a right adjoint. 20:52:19 Why should I have expected that? 20:53:03 http://hextris.io/ this is so coool 20:55:37 <\oren\_> actually it seems to only be affecting any video that was originally posted as a stream 20:55:45 Oh, the pieces just have to touch. 20:55:50 -!- espes has joined. 20:55:51 I thought they had to be on the same "level". 20:56:52 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:58:26 -!- dingbat has joined. 21:01:33 8038 points 21:01:37 This game is pretty good. 21:08:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:09:37 are you playing on a phone? 21:10:09 my first try was with my phone and screen rotation was on 21:11:55 I played on a laptop. 21:12:00 And then on a phone. 21:22:19 -!- pelegreno___ has quit (Excess Flood). 21:22:50 -!- espes_ has joined. 21:22:58 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:23:06 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:23:40 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:23:42 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:23:52 -!- int-e has joined. 21:24:02 -!- espes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:24:04 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:24:09 -!- alercah_ has joined. 21:24:42 -!- pelegreno___ has joined. 21:24:43 -!- ^v has joined. 21:25:06 -!- alercah_ has changed nick to alercah. 21:25:14 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 21:28:40 -!- dingbat has joined. 21:32:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:32:43 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:32:43 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:33:03 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:33:08 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:33:09 -!- alercah has joined. 21:33:09 -!- alercah has quit (Changing host). 21:33:09 -!- alercah has joined. 21:33:09 -!- int-e has joined. 21:33:13 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:33:27 -!- Cale has joined. 21:33:44 -!- ^v has joined. 21:43:56 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:01 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:44:05 -!- heroux has joined. 21:44:20 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:45:12 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:45:20 -!- int-e_ has joined. 21:46:15 -!- alercah has joined. 21:46:26 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:46:28 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:46:28 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:46:30 -!- \oren\_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:46:39 -!- ^v has joined. 21:47:39 -!- Cale has joined. 21:50:48 -!- \oren\ has joined. 21:51:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:51:11 -!- heroux has joined. 21:54:38 -!- clog has joined. 21:59:42 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 22:06:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:22:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:23:30 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:25:50 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:29:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:34:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:35:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:38:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:39:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:01:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:04:21 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:46 -!- boily has joined. 23:09:02 -!- boily has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 23:10:15 . o O ( The Everchanging Toooopiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic ♪ ) 23:11:51 -!- ais523 has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | this counter has been incremented 0 times | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 23:12:03 -!- ais523 has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | this counter has been incremented 1 time | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 23:13:54 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:14:04 with the help of self-fulfilling counter technology, now we can change the topic as much as we like 23:14:13 (or, well, until the number gets large enough that it doesn't fit) 23:17:40 his523! 23:18:33 hi 23:18:59 -!- mega_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:20:22 -!- keemyb has joined. 23:21:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:39:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:39:13 I seem to be thinking about string division... for some reason... 23:40:26 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 23:41:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:27 The quotient s/t of two strings s, t (where tally(t) <= tally(s) keywise (and for a string s (different from the s in the outer scope), tally(s) is a map from singleton strings to is equal to any 23:41:29 Whoops 23:41:32 Didn't mean to send that yet 23:42:25 )) 23:42:52 hppavellon[1]. would you please not pull a fungot and balance your parentheses hth 23:42:52 tally(s) for a string s is a dictionary (or hashmap, or associative array, or whatever you want to call it) from characters c to positive integers, where tally(s)_c is the number of occurrences of c in the string 23:43:03 boily: fine :,( 23:43:21 sorry :( 23:44:53 So e.g. tally('I am Santa, lord of dankness') = {'a' -> 4, 'd' -> 1, 'e' -> 1, ...} 23:44:56 Simple enough 23:47:56 sgtm. 23:48:00 Applying a function f (or operation, or relation, or whatever) with arity of n to n dictionaries d1, d2, ..., dn is the same as the dictionary D with keys of the union of the sets of keys of d1..n, where D_k = f(d1_k, d2_k, ..., dn_k) 23:48:13 * applying it keywise 23:49:16 If a key does not appear in one of the inputs, the value is... OK, it varies by context. Just state what the default is when you say you're taking it keywise 23:50:47 So keywise (default 0.8) {'a' -> 1, 'b' -> 2, 'c' -> 3}+{'a' -> 4, 'c' -> 92} is equal to {'a' -> 5, 'b' -> 2.8, 'c' -> 95} 23:51:03 boily: Is this making any ounce of sense so far? 23:51:26 everything's peachy so far. 23:51:31 OK, good 23:53:32 So the quotient s/t of two strings s, t where tally(t) <= tally(s) keywise (default 0) is pretty much any string that can be generated by deleting k of each character in t (where k is the number of times that the character appears) from s 23:54:23 So 'abcdabcd'/'acc' = 'bdabd' | 'abdbd' 23:54:46 (| is essentially kleene +, but more familiar a notation) 23:55:19 is shuffling permitted? 23:55:28 boily: No, only deletion 23:56:52 If t contains any characters s doesn't (or contains more of any character than t), you're pretty much done (this, of course, makes single characters the prime numbers of strings- which seems pretty obvious in retrospect) 23:57:03 s/than t/than s/ 23:57:13 if two deletion passes result in the same end string, do you merge them together or do you count all copies as separate results? 23:57:24 boily: You merge them 23:57:49 So 'aabcd'/'a' is just 'abcd', even though you can obtain it by deleting either 'a' 23:58:43 You can talk about different types of quotient of a string too, which are always a proper subset of all quotients 2016-09-28: 00:00:43 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:02:43 The Principal Quotient Distance of two strings s and t is the minimum number of steps it requires to turn s into t using only insertions of a contiguous block of characters and deletions of contiguous blocks of characters (so 'abcdefg' and 'abfg' have a distance of 1, as you delete the characters 2..4) 00:04:00 The principal quotients of s and t (s/t) are the strings that have the smallest Principal Quotient Distance from the original string (that is, they all have the same distance) 00:05:25 So while 'acdabd' is a quotient of 'abcdabcd' and 'bc' ('abcdabcd'/'bc'), it is not a principal quotient because it requires 2 steps (delete the first 'b' and second 'c') while 'adabcd' and 'abcdad' only require 1 00:14:29 boily: If that makes any sense? 00:19:12 -!- mad has joined. 00:23:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:30:12 I seem to have created a rudimentary encoding that gives a unique name to each edit distance function 00:30:45 Levenshtein is called 'dis' 00:32:31 -!- tromp has joined. 00:32:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:36:05 hppavilion[1]: it makes sense. 00:36:18 * boily was momentarily distracted by a kimchi howto video >_>'... 00:42:26 The PQD is DI 00:43:16 (case aims to be significant, but isn't necessarily- usually, uppercase is the same as lowercase, but for substrings instead of single characters) 00:46:34 (these examples are yet to show the weighting option, but there is one) 00:47:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:09:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MOLAR CHICKEN). 01:24:36 yo momma is so fat she was reincarnated as 2 people 01:24:37 namaste 01:41:09 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:41:09 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:43:16 -!- otherbot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:43:46 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:44:57 -!- pdxleif has joined. 01:48:01 -!- updownleftright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:59 Is there such thing as a TRInomial coefficient? 02:02:14 (With trico(n, k) presumably being equal to the coefficient of the term x^k in (x^2+x+1)^n, or something like that) 02:05:27 -!- Melvar has joined. 02:08:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 02:13:11 Is there anything above uncountable? A set is uncountable if there is no way to inject it into the naturals 02:13:51 The reals are the simplest uncountable set (well, by "simplest" I mean "the one I know"), but is it possible to have a set that cannot be injected into the reals? 02:18:09 the sets of all sets of real numbers 02:18:19 the set of all sets of real numbers 02:20:16 for any set S, the set of all the subsets of S is larger than S 02:29:23 izalove: Oooh, nice 02:29:51 izalove: Are you sure that that's true of infinite sets? 02:30:05 yes, it's cantor's theorem 02:30:08 OK 02:31:21 Is triplethink possible? 02:40:37 (it would only be possible if there are 3 statements a, b, c where a↯b, b↯c, and a↯c (where ↯ is the contradiction conjunction, which could probably just be xor in retrospect)) 02:40:56 (I'm sure there's a way to do this using ->, but I don't feel like finding it) 02:49:43 @tell boily POSTCARD GET. I shall resend this package ASAP--you better pick it up this time! 02:49:43 Consider it noted. 02:50:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:07:27 -!- Menphis has joined. 03:17:38 `factor 1152 03:17:47 1152: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 03:24:09 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:26:18 `factor -7 03:26:19 factor: invalid option -- '7' \ Try `factor --help' for more information. 03:26:29 oh. that *is* informative 03:26:31 `factor -- -7 03:26:32 factor: unrecognized option '-- -7' \ Try `factor --help' for more information. 03:26:34 :( 03:27:01 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:30:45 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:31:00 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:36:06 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:36:39 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:39:48 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:41:29 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:49 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:42:34 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:43:26 -!- bibibi has joined. 03:45:31 NASA changed the zodiac (or, more accurately, they accounted for shifts in the earth that we hadn't used yet) 03:45:46 There's a thirteenth sign now- Ophiuchus- and I'm apparently that 03:46:04 Yay! I fall under a different bullshittial classification from before! 03:46:34 hppavilion[1]: B1875 vs J2000? 03:46:52 lifthrasiir: I honestly don't know what that means 03:46:59 Is J2000 "julian in 2000"? 03:47:05 equinox, yeah something like that 03:47:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox_(celestial_coordinates) 03:47:56 does the discovery of the thirteenth sign of the zodiac fall under both types of esoteric at once? 03:48:18 ais523: Yes, definitely 03:48:35 (I could also be Scorpio; I'm not really clear on what's inclusive and what's exclusive) 03:49:14 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Constellations_ecliptic_equirectangular_plot.svg 03:49:17 oh, I like this visualization 03:50:15 hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus#Ophiuchus_and_the_zodiac 03:50:22 (My birthday is on 11-29, which is the turnover from Scorpio to Ophiuchus) 03:50:27 ty 03:51:05 No, I'm calling it a sign 04:01:47 -!- bibibi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:02:37 -!- bibibi has joined. 04:02:51 -!- bibibi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:25 -!- bibibi has joined. 04:07:29 ais523: You know what'd be really fun? 04:07:32 Axiomatic astrology 04:07:45 Start with a set of basic assumptions and all astrology is mathematically derived from there 04:07:53 Still bullshit, but now it's FORMAL bullshit 04:23:06 256.0039061903972 = The Silicon Mean 04:23:46 I'm vaguely thinking of something that changes the number of degrees in a circle over time to allow for the changes in the Earth's orbit 04:23:59 maybe we should define the number of degrees in a full circle to be equal to the number of days in a year 04:24:08 ais523: Um, we're using radians hth 04:24:13 and assert, without proof, that it was originally exactly 360 04:24:29 but changed over time 04:24:31 And 2.0952939852239147 is the metagolden mean (the golden mean-th metallic mean) 04:24:36 thus requiring occasional "leap degrees" 04:24:40 YES 04:25:55 we should probably be using sidereal days rather than solar days, come to think of it 04:26:12 more appropriate for astrology /and also/ harder to understand 04:26:39 (so (((1+sqrt(5))/2)+sqrt(((1+sqrt(5))/2)**2+4))/2) 04:31:22 heh, there's also such a thing as anti-sidereal time 04:31:55 unlike sidereal time, which is designed to be appropriate for astronomy 04:32:16 anti-sidereal time is explicitly intended to be arbitrary and not match any natural astronomical cycles 04:33:18 ais523: Oooh, nice 04:33:25 1.7320508075688772 is the Golden Root-Mean-Square 04:55:47 <\oren\> is may 10th still a Tauros? 04:57:02 <\oren\> what calendar will Elon Musk's colonists use? 04:58:52 \oren\: darian calendar, probably? 05:06:57 I kind of want to become a weather geek, just for http://xkcd.com/1324/ 05:07:28 @metar MRI 05:08:12 Wait 05:08:15 @metar PAMR 05:08:17 PAMR 280353Z 28004KT 10SM CLR 09/01 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP238 T00940006 05:08:41 Yep. 05:08:47 I still don't understand METAR 05:14:44 I assume @metar gives it in the international format rather than North American? 05:15:04 Or would a North American airport give North American metars? 05:15:48 Huh, yep, looks NA 05:29:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:31:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:41:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:32:15 oerjan: I'm wondering when D-modules enter into all this. 06:32:24 Taneb can probably help me out. 06:32:51 Taneb: Do you like derivatives? 06:50:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:07:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:19:26 oerjan, Cale: Maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi-Civita_symbol is what I want. 07:21:43 Maybe not. 07:29:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:37:46 -!- lol1 has joined. 07:44:30 -!- lol1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:45:41 -!- lol1 has joined. 08:06:52 -!- lol1 has left. 08:08:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:33:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:37:16 -!- mad has quit (Quit: Pics or it didn't happen). 08:38:00 is there a way to force linux to swap stuff out to disk and free X bytes of ram? 08:39:33 You can swapoff completely. 08:39:39 swapoff then swapon? 08:39:41 Er, wait. 08:39:44 I misread. 08:39:49 And maybe lifthrasiir misread too. 08:39:54 :) 08:39:59 ah *to disk*, yeah 08:40:05 hmm, I don't know 08:40:17 Why would you want to? 08:41:08 because i may need to run something that must actually stay in ram and firefox isn't as important 08:41:41 izalove: cause thrashing then drop that process? 08:41:43 And the normal heuristics aren't good enough? 08:42:05 izalove: ptrace the process you care about, run a mlockall in it. 08:42:09 in the extreme case where one process is filling the memory up it should move almost everything else into the disk 08:42:11 You can have a process mlock its memory if you want to be sure it's in RAM. 08:42:24 provided that swap is enough 08:42:31 (otherwise, well, OOM killer ensues) 08:42:53 Another thing you can do is get more RAM. RAM is so cheap. 08:42:56 thanks for this 08:43:27 Even without mlock I assume that if a process just prefaults its pages, it won't do too badly for many workloads. 08:43:48 shachaf, I have not derivatived for many years 08:44:05 Maybe MAP_POPULATE does that? 08:44:33 on an anonymous map? 08:45:13 Not sure whether that works. 08:45:50 https://github.com/aclements/thesis/blob/master/bench/mcorelib/block.c does it, at least. 08:49:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:49:59 mlockall with MCL_ONFAULT looks great 08:51:40 It's the "Hotel California" option. 08:52:00 You can fault in any time you like, but you can never page out. 08:52:35 fizzie: i see a hotel california in your future hth 08:53:11 I booked one of our corporate apartments for that, it's not a hotel. 08:53:38 A hotel would be a prodorate apartment, I guess. 09:06:02 -!- carado has joined. 09:06:53 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x3131 0x3163 09:06:53 ​ㄱㄲㄳㄴㄵㄶㄷㄸㄹㄺㄻㄼㄽㄾㄿ \ ㅀㅁㅂㅃㅄㅅㅆㅇㅈㅉㅊㅋㅌㅍㅎㅏ \ ㅐㅑㅒㅓㅔㅕㅖㅗㅘㅙㅚㅛㅜㅝㅞㅟ \ ㅠㅡㅢㅣ 09:09:33 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2732 0x2739 09:09:33 ​✲✳✴✵✶✷✸✹ 09:31:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:47:19 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:53:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:08:05 -!- bender has joined. 11:20:55 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:22:15 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:34:29 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:48 -!- Melvar has joined. 11:55:59 `wisdom 11:56:05 pawn//*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA* 11:59:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:59:49 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:59:51 @massages-loud 11:59:51 quintopia said 9h 10m 7s ago: POSTCARD GET. I shall resend this package ASAP--you better pick it up this time! 12:00:18 @tell quintopia QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAA! THE POSTCARD ARRIVED! (Didn't get mine yet though...) 12:00:18 Consider it noted. 12:00:53 @tell quintopia (Which is to be expected. I live in a postal blackhole, right in the middle of a ~4 million people metropolitan area.) 12:00:53 Consider it noted. 12:10:48 `` culprits wisdom/pawn 12:10:51 fizzie evilipse oerjan 12:11:31 @ask evilipse hellipse. who are you? are you as evil as you claim to be? 12:11:31 Consider it noted. 12:11:47 hmm, pawn on the 8th rank 12:14:10 `? alice 12:14:11 Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. 12:14:37 P4a+ 12:18:46 `? mad 12:18:49 This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. 12:19:17 -!- boily has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented twice | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 12:19:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SWEATY CHICKEN). 12:19:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:23:43 -!- heroux has joined. 12:23:44 `? pawn 12:23:45 ​*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA* 12:26:39 `? queen 12:26:39 queen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:55:47 int-e, get to the other side of the board and we'll talk 13:28:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:28:55 -!- carado has joined. 13:33:10 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 14:01:40 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:02:14 -!- augur has joined. 14:21:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:25:57 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:26:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:30:10 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:35:21 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented thrice | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 14:50:21 @tell hppavilion[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_theorem#Multinomial_coefficients 14:50:21 Consider it noted. 14:56:24 `` factor -- -7 14:56:30 factor: `-7' is not a valid positive integer 14:56:38 shocking 14:58:57 moo 14:59:19 `factor 7 14:59:19 7: 7 14:59:54 * oerjan chases moonythedwarf off his lawn 15:20:14 MOOnythedwarf 15:26:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:29:07 dwarven cows in new york? that's silly 15:30:53 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 15:31:37 * FireFly dies 15:39:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:43:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:58:44 * moonythedwarf digs up oerjan's garden again 16:00:19 * oerjan applies his saucepan ===\__/ 16:00:40 * moonythedwarf hides from saucepan 16:01:03 -js console.log("anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (:") 16:01:14 -!- otherbot has joined. 16:01:18 -js console.log("anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (:") 16:01:18 anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (: | 16:01:45 this is a good time to not know javascript. 16:01:55 lol 16:17:50 -rsc 16:17:50 Reloaded sandbox corescript 16:17:58 -js util.inspect(global) 16:17:58 { [SyntaxError: Unexpected end of input] global: '[Circular]' } 16:20:33 -rsc 16:20:34 Reloaded sandbox corescript 16:20:36 -js util.inspect(global) 16:20:36 [object global] | 16:20:42 -js util.format(global) 16:20:42 [object global] | 16:20:52 -js console.log(util.format(global)) 16:20:52 [object global] | {obuf: , console: [object Object], util: [object Object], global: [Cyclic object], process: [object Object], } | 16:34:04 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:56:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:03:57 wb ais523, wb Kaynato 17:05:02 ................................................................................................................................... 17:05:19 ? 17:05:32 ^ul ((.)S:^):^ 17:05:40 eek no fungot 17:06:00 * moonythedwarf is already conteplating adding Underload to otherbot 17:06:04 should i oerjan? 17:06:08 `! underload ((.)S:^):^ 17:06:09 ​........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 17:06:11 well why not 17:10:08 -reload 17:10:09 Reloading modules... 17:10:18 -ul ((.)S:^):^ 17:10:43 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:08 moonythedwarf: there's an infinite loop in the program 17:11:09 moonythedwarf: wai 17:11:20 -!- wanderman has joined. 17:11:21 so you'll need cutoffs for programs using infinite CPU/memory/stack 17:11:22 WAI 17:11:27 ais523: it timesout 17:11:28 ais523: he does that 17:11:34 but it just fcrashed 17:11:41 moonythedwarf: you can write a program like this though 17:11:49 -!- wanderman has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:12:03 -reload 17:12:08 moonythedwarf: it's dedd 17:12:16 `! underload (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^ 17:12:17 ​-|--|----|--------|----------------|--------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 17:12:22 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:12:24 that's evaluating powers of 2 17:12:36 in unary 17:12:43 and thus can use huge amounts of memory in a very short amount of time 17:12:55 -ul (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^ 17:12:58 -list 17:12:58 jeffl35: echo ping pong eval flushq help list use store cash inv savecstate buy sell give kick ban unban op deop mode attack poke join part reload whois nick pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lolr ><>r js rsc ul 17:13:00 ​ 17:13:05 -pad (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^ 17:13:06 -ul 17:13:10 -help ul 17:13:10 jeffl35: Run programs written in Underload 17:13:11 ​ 17:13:16 jeffl35: its single line 17:13:16 uh ok 17:13:19 -ul (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^ 17:13:25 ​ 17:13:25 -ping 17:13:25 pong 17:13:31 oh its dieing 17:13:31 not seeming to work 17:13:33 lol 17:13:42 -ul (test)S 17:13:43 -!- wanderman has joined. 17:13:47 ​ 17:13:57 otherbot 17:14:01 hmm 17:14:09 ais523: try again 17:14:13 -ul (test)S 17:14:14 -ul (test)S 17:14:18 ​ 17:14:19 ​ 17:14:20 -reload 17:14:20 Reloading modules... 17:14:24 well derpdederp 17:15:49 -reload 17:15:50 Reloading modules... 17:15:52 -ul (test)S 17:15:52 ​test 17:15:54 there 17:15:55 ^_^ 17:15:57 ​test 17:16:12 -reload 17:16:12 Reloading modules... 17:16:15 -ul (test)S 17:16:15 ​test 17:16:34 well thats that 17:18:02 -!- wanderman has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:18:10 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:18:38 wat 17:18:40 y u die 17:18:49 Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! 17:18:58 -!- wanderman has joined. 17:19:06 jeffl35: wtf? 17:19:16 -!- otherbot has joined. 17:19:38 I assume that was in a vm? 17:19:46 that sort of kernel panic normally is fairly fatal to IRC connections 17:19:52 lol 17:20:01 -!- wanderman has quit (Client Quit). 17:20:02 lol 17:23:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:25:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:27:27 # killall -SIGILL init & killall -SIGSEGV init 17:27:40 rather interesting bug in systemd 17:27:51 causes systemd to die and the system to crash 17:30:08 `` killall -SIGILL init & killall -SIGSEGV init 17:30:09 init(1): Operation not permitted \ init(285): Operation not permitted 17:30:27 doesnt seem to do anything to Hackego's older software, so its a newer bug 17:32:16 moonythedwarf: has to be root 17:32:19 also has to be systemd 17:32:22 `` ls -al /sbin/init 17:32:24 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 36992 Jul 14 2013 /sbin/init 17:32:28 see 17:32:30 it uses sysvinit 17:32:35 `` ls /etc/systemd 17:32:36 ls: cannot access /etc/systemd: No such file or directory 17:57:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: LAter). 18:03:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:05:12 @tell boily reminder that i'll be at niagara in a week and a half. 18:05:12 Consider it noted. 18:05:26 -!- Reece` has joined. 18:05:54 @metar pamr 18:05:54 PAMR 281653Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 01/M03 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP280 T00111028 18:09:07 jeffl35: The HackEgo init process is actually https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/src/tip/init.c 18:09:16 And is completely unrelated to whatever is visible at /sbin/init. 18:09:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:10:44 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56S4_V3GJQ 18:20:09 -!- irctc201 has joined. 18:21:02 lucy123 18:21:21 anybody out there? 18:21:33 huh? 18:22:00 is this an esoteric chat? 18:22:14 `welcome irctc201 18:22:15 irctc201: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 18:23:04 how does this work? first timer 18:23:44 It sounds like you've already figured out how it works. 18:25:08 -!- irctc201 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:25:26 `? histogram 18:25:27 Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them. 18:25:56 I thought a histogram was a message sent backward in time. 18:49:26 oh newcomer? 18:56:51 hi shachaf 18:57:52 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:57:59 wb 18:58:46 -ul (test)S 18:58:46 ​test 18:59:33 -rsc 18:59:33 Reloaded sandbox corescript 18:59:35 -!- Menphis has joined. 18:59:42 -js util.format("\r\n") 18:59:42 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] } } 18:59:50 -js console.log(util.format("\r\n")) 18:59:51 | | 19:18:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:35:16 -!- newsham has joined. 19:35:55 -js var x; while (1) { x = [x] } 19:35:56 { [Error: Script execution timed out.] global: '[Circular]' } 19:36:06 that's a very short timeout 19:38:42 * moonythedwarf checks 19:38:56 ais523: exactly one second 19:39:04 -reload 19:39:04 Reloading modules... 19:39:43 -js var x="a"; while(1) { x = x + x } 19:39:43 { [RangeError: Invalid string length] global: '[Circular]' } 19:41:09 * moonythedwarf pokes otherbot and applys a 2 second timeout 19:41:59 -js function x() { x(); x(); } x() 19:41:59 { [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] global: '[Circular]' } 19:42:16 OK, it looks like there are limits on many of the common tricks used to blow up memory 19:45:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:47:42 :) 19:53:00 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:53:11 g/buffer 3 19:53:32 * moonythedwarf wonders if ais523 will come up with a exploit for it 19:58:18 -pyc print 1+1 19:58:19 ​2 | 20:06:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:10:34 -!- augur has joined. 20:11:27 moonythedwarf: I don't know enough JavaScript really 20:13:05 ais523: Did you ever write up the rules to your game? 20:13:15 I think you were planning to do it once. 20:13:16 shachaf: I started a writeup 20:13:23 but there are still some things I'm unsure about 20:19:15 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:27:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 20:36:51 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:45:28 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:46:43 Apparently "finale" is pronounced /"fIn@li:/. I don't understand how English spelling works. 20:48:58 it doesn't, mostly 20:49:31 the "a" in "finale" is definitely an "ar" sound even though that's inconsistent with every other spelling rule I know 20:50:12 I'm more bothered by the /i:/ 20:50:16 but they're correlated 20:50:53 ah yes, you're right 20:51:21 wait, I'm wrong 20:51:26 I gave the wrong pronunciation 20:53:54 the dictionary says /fI"na:li/ (Br), /fI"n{li/ (Am) 20:53:58 that still doesn't make sense 20:54:02 but in a different way 20:55:15 where /i/ in this dictionary is an abbreviation meaning it's pronounced as either /i:/ or /I/ depending on the dialect 20:55:29 and typically /i:/ in american 20:56:01 so it doesn't make much sense to use it when there are separate british and american pronunciations give, but that's still what the dictionary says 20:56:34 The spelling is largely independent from the pronunciation, at least as far as vowels are concerned. 20:56:37 at least if the stress is on the second syllable, that explains why the first syllable has /I/ 20:56:52 lol thought I was in ##english for a sec 20:56:56 let me check if my Oxford dict gives a pronunciation 20:57:16 Bowserinator: here we mostly laugh at English rather than trying to justify it :-) 20:57:18 Bowserinator: nah, that channel rarely talks about English 20:57:24 Actually, is English a stressful language? :-P 20:57:37 not really 20:57:54 int-e: they told me it is supposed to be one 20:58:02 english speakers are lazy, you don't need to move your mouth that much 20:58:12 although for some reason if you're slightly off they won't understand you. 20:59:34 int-e: there are a few places in English where the meaning of a word changes depending on stress 20:59:38 "refuse", for example 20:59:50 although it's hard to construct a sentence in which both meanings work 20:59:55 the oxford dictionary says /fI"nA:li/ or /fI"nA:leI/ which is strange 21:00:10 wait, "refuse"? really? 21:00:22 ais523, iirc in those situations, a stress on the last syllable is a verb, on the first syllable a noun 21:00:26 Taneb: indeed 21:00:27 wob_jonas, as a noun it means trash 21:00:30 Freeze. 21:00:32 that's why it's hard to work it into a sentence 21:00:38 Taneb: right, but how does the stress change? 21:00:47 REfuse 21:01:00 I know there are a few words where the stress changes 21:01:10 wob_jonas: REF-yuse is the noun, ree-FYUSE is the verb 21:01:11 but I didn't know "refuse" is one of them 21:01:27 strangely enough, the first e is short when stressed and long when nonstressed 21:02:02 Fuses > * 21:02:31 * moonythedwarf is making a gravity based 2d esolang that, if minimized, is reversable 21:02:36 I guess "to refuse" could mean "to replace the fuse in" 21:02:47 moonythedwarf: is it uncomputable? 21:02:50 * wob_jonas checks the dictionary 21:02:59 ais523: That would fit. 21:03:07 ais523, it's said that the easiest way to tell the difference between a plumber and a scientist is to ask them to pronounce unionise 21:03:17 Taneb: :-) 21:03:35 but the scientists more commonly use "deionise" I think, unless both words exist with different meanings 21:03:52 Possibly it was "unionised" 21:04:04 besides, the stress is in the same place in both words 21:04:08 just the syllable boundaries are different 21:04:14 * APic thought of „unionized“ first. 21:04:20 s/zed/ze/ 21:04:34 un-i - on -ise versus un - i-on - ise 21:04:43 actually the syllable boundaries are the same too, but the syllable /spacing/ is different? 21:04:49 it says "refuse" as a verb is /rI"fju:z/, which is how I'd pronounce it too, and "refuse" as a noun is /"rEfju:s/. it's strange that they differ; either pronunciation would make sense separately, but together they don't. 21:04:49 what sort of language is this?! 21:05:06 ,o0(Ion Laser) 21:05:39 wob_jonas: how do you pronounce infinite and finite? 21:05:42 Strangely my Dictionaries only have that one in English-Croatian FreeDict 21:05:49 int-e: I do know those differ 21:05:52 Not in the other English-Foo-Dictionaries i have installed 21:05:57 int-e, I pronounce finite deliberately incorrectly 21:05:59 („ion laser“) 21:06:05 it's on my list, together with cycle - bicycle, and sign - signal 21:06:39 (definite and infinite rhyme, finite rhymes with I knight) 21:06:46 Taneb: how? do you change both syllables to match "infinite" or just one of them, and if so which? 21:07:03 ais523, to match infinite 21:07:22 so "finite" is /"faI.naIt/ and "infinite" is /"InfInIt/ or /"InfIn@t/ I think 21:07:31 Taneb: also definite and infinite don't rhyme, it's a tertiary rhyme so you need to match the last two syllables and the vowel and trailing consonants of the third-last 21:07:43 whereas the vowel in the third-last syllable doesn't match there 21:07:48 they are pretty lose though 21:07:49 *close 21:07:54 ais523: "unionise" is four syllables? I'd have said it as three syllables 21:07:55 ...I would use them in a poem 21:08:24 wob_jonas: the "io" is kind-of dubious as a dipthong 21:08:31 something like /"jUnj,@,naIz/ 21:08:44 you can try to pronounce it as one but the syllable gap's audible pretty much however fast you try 21:09:10 ais523: no, there's no diphtong because I pronunce it with a /nj/ consonant 21:09:18 ais523, I sometimes pronounce the plumber's way was yoonyunise 21:09:34 wob_jonas: isn't that English "ng"? or am I confusing it with something else? 21:09:40 maybe it's rather /"jU,nj@,naIz/ 21:09:48 "ungeonise" isn't how the word's pronounced at all 21:10:03 In German i would separate „unionize“ as „un-i-o-nize“ probably ;=P 21:10:05 ais523, phonetic j is a consonant y I think 21:10:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:10:37 Taneb: "ny" isn't possible without a syllable boundary in English I think 21:10:45 as a consonant 21:10:54 ais523, that might depend on your dialect 21:10:58 it's possible in Russian (e.g. "nyet"), but I don't think we use that sound in English 21:11:04 ais523: new? 21:11:18 int-e: actually, I'll buy that 21:11:24 not quite identical but close enough 21:11:27 It would actually be interesting to let a Program create the german Separation for „unionize“ 21:11:28 can you do it at the end of a syllable? 21:11:47 I'm wondering if "new" has the y sound at the start of the vowel rather than the end of the consonant 21:12:03 I mean, "ew" has a y sound too 21:12:05 ais523: I don't think it's "ng", but maybe. /nj/ is actually /J/ or /ɲ/, a palatal nasal. some English speakers (including me) pronunce it in "new" and "news" 21:12:14 which implies that it's part of the vowel 21:12:27 though more than half of the English speakers pronounce "new" with just an /n/ instead 21:12:32 "ewe" and "you" famously have the same pronunciation 21:12:50 wob_jonas: I think I pronounce "new" as "n" followed by "you" 21:12:51 I'd suggest nuclear, but that would only make matters worse. 21:13:15 ais523: how do you pronounce "during"? 21:13:21 ais523, ...my mouth feels different saying ewe and you but they sound the same 21:13:22 and "Tuesday"? 21:13:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:13:38 I think there's another word with "n" too, but I can't remember 21:13:52 wob_jonas: "during" has a dipthong or maybe tripthong on the u for me 21:13:58 oh right, "revenue" 21:14:06 ee - oo - ur 21:14:32 "revenue" ends in "new" for me 21:14:56 yes, I expect "revenue" to end in "new" for most people 21:15:50 ais523, I either pronounce during like you do or with a like dj consonant at the beginning and just a oo-ur or maybe just an ur 21:16:18 (I have a bizarre accent at times) 21:16:32 actually, I think I've come to a conclusion: consonant y doesn't exist in my accent 21:16:42 * APic is installing „texlive“ 21:16:45 it's just a different vowel from vowel y (which is a long i in most accents) 21:16:45 (I blame my Dutch Australian/not quite Geordie heritage) 21:17:00 ais523: can't we say it's a semi-vowel or glide? 21:17:42 I can buy glide 21:17:54 it's notably different from semi-vowels like l or n though 21:17:56 ais523: so you don't pronounce a consonant in "your" or "yes" or "York" or "yawn"? 21:18:18 or in "mayonaise"? 21:18:24 @@ 21:18:25 wait, how do they spell "mayonaise" in English? 21:18:27 - 21:18:29 o 1 21:18:30 wob_jonas: all of those are vowel transitions 21:18:31 @Hello92+4*84*World92+3*\ . 21:18:31 Unknown command, try @list 21:18:31 mayonnaise I think, not sure though 21:18:33 \ @ 21:18:35 $? 21:18:37 ~ 21:18:39 thats the Hello, World! program 21:18:39 mayonnaise, yes 21:18:49 and it doesn't even have a y sound in it 21:19:04 ok, forget mayonnaise then 21:20:14 derp replace the o with a ' 21:20:20 ais523: anyway, I think it is possible for an English dialect to actually not have a y consonant, only a semi-vowel 21:20:52 a semivowel is something that you can hold indefinitely despite not being a traditional vowel 21:21:06 * APic is installing texlive-lang-german 21:21:06 Narf 21:21:11 That one took me long to figure out ☺ 21:21:12 I don't think you can hold a consonantal-y 21:22:25 ais523: no, a semivowel is a vowel that doesn't make a whole syllable, but is next to a vowel and forms a glide with it. if you hold the same sound long, then it's not a semi-vowel, but a vowel. that's not a problem, many words can be pronounced either with a vowel or a semi-vowel. 21:23:11 so how would you react to nonwords like "plllfft" which are pronounceable despite not having any vowels? 21:23:29 English tends not to use such words but that's not for any particular reason AFAIK 21:24:07 ais523: I don't know, because I don't speak czech, so I can't pronounce those. 21:24:37 but they say that in some languages, the "r" and the "l" can be syllable nucleuses, and that in some English dialects too 21:24:44 not in my dialect though 21:24:55 wob_jonas: it's simply a physical matter of pronounciation mechanics, not a dialect thing 21:25:02 it's physically possible to prolong an l or an f indefinitely 21:25:05 like it is with vowels 21:25:09 just the letters aren't normally used like that 21:25:27 there are a few English words that use the principle, but mostly onomatopoeia like "mmm" 21:25:43 ais523: it is a dialect thing, because I don't pronunce it in any English word, but some people do in some English words 21:26:02 so I don't see why it wouldn't be a dialect thing 21:26:07 unio-ni-ze 21:26:11 lol 21:26:14 Very Fail 21:26:27 some languages require that in some words, namely at least croatian and czech, both of which are infamous of vowel-less tongue-twisters 21:26:29 But what do i expect using a Hyphenator for the wrong Language? ☺ 21:26:54 APic: that hyphenation does look right 21:27:00 wob_jonas: it's merely a fact of the phoneme in question 21:27:03 that it can be prolonged 21:27:09 wait wait 21:27:11 this is independent of what words it does or doesn't appear in 21:27:12 unio-ni-ze? 21:27:14 that's wrong 21:27:16 Yes. 21:27:21 sorry 21:27:23 ☺ 21:29:16 I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable hyphenating the plumber version of that word anywhere 21:29:30 (the scientist version hyphenates quite neatly after un-) 21:29:36 which one is the plumber version? 21:29:42 If I was going to hyphenate the plumber version it'd have to be union-ize 21:29:43 and the scientist version? 21:30:57 wob_jonas: plumber is "unionize" as in "create au nion" 21:31:21 scientist is "un-ionize" as in "remove ions from" (although "deionize", "reduce ions in", is more idiomatic, probably because you can't physically get all of them) 21:31:29 * create a union 21:31:31 oh! 21:31:42 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:31:58 so by scientist one, you mean the chemical science one, not the mathematics one 21:32:12 yes 21:32:21 and how are these pronounced? 21:32:56 no surprises if you can pronounce "ion" and "union" 21:34:41 well, I said the "plumbers'" one is /"jU,nj@,naIz/, but that's probably wrong, it is more likely /"ju:,nj@,naIz/ (I'll check the dictionary later), 21:35:25 and iirc "ion" is pronounced as /"ai,@n/, like iron, but I could be wrong, so it would be /Vn,"ai,@,naIz/ 21:35:41 let me see the dictionary 21:36:54 the Longman says /"ju:nI@naIz/ 21:38:30 I'm not sure if the /I@/ is meant to be the "here" diphtongue or two syllables in that 21:38:57 -!- Kaynato has joined. 21:38:59 probably two syllables, because it gives "u-ni-on-ize" as the syllables in the spelling 21:39:40 I wish oh well, not much difference between those 21:41:58 the Oxford gives no pronunciation, and has only the plumber meaning too 21:44:10 and yes, ion is pronounced as /"aI,@n/, I remembered right 22:04:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:05:58 Well, 5 stages of grief are kicking in. Now seems like a good time to study them. 22:06:04 @messages-poud 22:06:04 oerjan said 7h 15m 43s ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_theorem#Multinomial_coefficients 22:22:44 doot 22:22:51 -pyc 22:22:52 ​Argument expected for the '-c' option | usage: /bin/pypy-c [options] | Try `/bin/pypy-c -h` for more information. | [Subprocess exit code: 2] | 22:22:54 derp 22:23:14 * moonythedwarf curses the enter bar for being too close to a diffrent character 22:26:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:34:37 ']\ 22:35:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:36:21 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:42:06 hi int-e 22:42:31 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:51:47 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:52:38 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:53:03 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 22:54:27 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:54:46 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:57:21 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:58:06 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 23:00:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:01:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:01:21 -!- Menphis has joined. 23:01:23 wb & wb 23:01:30 & wb 23:04:22 helloonythedwarf_... 23:09:16 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:18:52 -js 1+1 23:18:52 2 23:18:53 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] } } 23:42:11 One of my teaqers from last year died yesterday... 23:42:29 Ʃe was... 20s, MAYBE early 30s. 23:42:34 I just found out today. 23:46:23 Ʃe was very nice, ðe kind of person who'd acknowledge my terrible jokes and was very accommodatiŋ when I broke ðe unspoken rules (e.g. "Don't interrupt people")... ʃe was ðe one who used segments from What If? as homework... 23:47:50 -!- shachaf has left. 23:47:53 your text is messed up. 23:48:05 are you not using ASCII/UTF-8? 23:55:15 moonythedwarf_: I fall back on my crazy bonus letter alphabet occasionally. I have to consciously tell myself to type with normal english on #esoteric 23:58:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:59:09 Helloerjan 23:59:33 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is the 'j' in 'oerjan' a /j/ sound? ) 23:59:52 yep 2016-09-29: 00:00:12 i mean, yeppavilion[1] 00:08:30 /²øɾjɑn/, that is. 00:11:03 oh wait 00:11:23 */²œɾjɑn/ 00:12:49 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 00:13:18 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:13:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:14:00 has anyone found flaws in pcg random? http://www.pcg-random.org 00:27:07 "You don't need an infinite number of monkeys to produce the works of Shakespeare; 2^524288 is ample." 00:29:50 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:30:19 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:35:19 -!- Caesura has joined. 00:36:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:49:22 If we use the system SI+¤, where ¤ is defined as the value of one gram of gold- currently USD 42.42291 (calculated as cost of 1 kg/100) (eq. EUR 37.92), what are the interpretations of powers of ¤? 00:49:44 (henceforth ¤ has the symbol 'u' from 'au') 01:06:28 hppavilion[1]: ¤² would be the unit for evil hth 01:06:47 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:06:53 ... 01:07:00 * oerjan grins 01:07:01 0.8 shachafs. 01:09:22 (#esoteric-style SI uses the base units Metre (m), Gram (g), Second (s), Ampere (A), Kelvin (K), Candela (cd), Mole (mol), Currency (u), and Shachafs (sh)) 01:09:43 oerjan: Quality of a comedian is measured in sh/u 01:10:05 shucking 01:11:19 hppavilion[1]: also, you have the capitalization backwards, it should be shachaf (Sh) 01:11:28 Oh 01:12:00 fully written SI units are never capitalized 01:12:30 and the abbreviation gets capitalized if it's from a person. 01:12:50 oerjan: But what's the rule if it's a person whose name isn't capitalized? 01:13:13 we'll nuke that bridge when we come to it 01:14:04 pretty sure shachaf (huh, he's not here) capitalizes his name outside irc 01:14:48 oerjan: Capitalizes 'shachaf' or his irl name? Or is he named 'Shachaf' (or something closely related) IRL? 01:14:52 although it's also rather unusual for a unit to be from the first name... 01:15:01 the latter 01:16:35 oerjan: There were 3 options. Which is the latter? 01:17:02 (I guess latter COULD work with arbitrarily many options, always meaning the last one? And if there's only one option, the latter is the same as the former) 01:18:04 So I guess it'd either be Sh or S (probably not S because sieverts) 01:18:39 he's named Shachaf hth 01:19:21 ...huh. 01:19:37 I did not realize Shachaf was a given name. 01:20:50 'Shahaf' is a Hebrew given name. Apparently related to "seagull" 01:20:59 So... Seacull? 01:24:31 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:28:58 hppavilion[1]: well it's the same in hebrew. the transliteration may differ. 01:38:59 hppavilion[1]: in modern israeli hebrew, it's pronounced like the german ch, but it used to be closer to (but not the same as) h, and still is in a few dialects. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heth#Hebrew_.E1.B8.A4et 01:39:28 OK... 01:42:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:43:02 -!- heroux has joined. 02:17:53 Candelas are such poo 02:35:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:19:37 -!- shachaf has joined. 03:20:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: byechaf). 03:24:35 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 03:26:05 -!- iovoid has joined. 03:26:28 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest92574. 03:27:49 -!- Guest92574 has quit (Changing host). 03:27:49 -!- Guest92574 has joined. 03:28:13 -!- Guest92574 has changed nick to iovoid. 03:44:13 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:05:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:17:20 -!- Caesura has joined. 04:22:50 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 04:23:31 -!- iovoid has joined. 04:23:51 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 04:23:51 -!- iovoid has joined. 04:31:17 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:36:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:47:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:47:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:54:42 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 612 seconds). 04:55:25 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:13:54 <\oren\> It might seem unethical to win world war II by advancing across europe under cover of a nuclear bombing every 7 days, but hey, I'm sure hitler has done something worse 05:52:46 -!- Menphis has joined. 05:53:48 -!- Menphis has quit (Client Quit). 05:55:06 -!- Menphis has joined. 05:55:12 -!- Menphis has quit (Client Quit). 06:00:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:23:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:23:34 What are the traditional someone-died-and-we're-all-very-sad songs? 06:24:49 The only properly-traditional one I know is Auld Lang Syne, though Days Gone Bye (the Pony version designed so small children aren't confused) could count 06:25:00 And Long Live the Queen by Frank Turner SHOULD be traditional... 06:25:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented pice | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 06:32:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:38:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:40:41 -!- heroux has joined. 06:43:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:48:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:59:45 ...new Macgyver. 06:59:46 Huh. 07:17:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:26:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:28:54 -!- atehwa_ has changed nick to atehwa. 07:42:22 Huh, the Hedgehog was only domesticated in the 1980s 07:46:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:53:07 heh 08:00:39 \oren\, have you been playing hearts of iron 08:28:17 -!- augur has joined. 08:28:27 There's something wrong with http://suprah2.com/about-us 08:29:32 I'm pretty sure that there's at least one fact there 08:30:00 Hoolootwo: '980‰ water' 08:30:56 I read it again and I'm not so sure about there being a single fact 08:31:10 yeah, I know :P 08:38:47 hppavilion[1], doubling the hydrogen is probably safer than doubling the oxygen 08:39:28 Taneb: Who's doubling? 08:39:34 suprah2 08:39:36 I'm not sure what H4O would do, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be pretty 08:39:58 Hoolootwo, I'm not sure it's physically possible 08:40:49 Oh 08:42:01 yeah, pretty sure it isn't, and if it is, it's some crazy intermediate 08:44:45 But if you double the oxygen in each molecule, you're not going to have a very fun time drinking it 08:46:35 Oooooh I see 08:57:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:57:02 -!- wanderman has joined. 08:57:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:19:36 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:25:51 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:26:40 -!- wanderman has joined. 09:30:31 -!- carado has joined. 09:58:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:00:07 -!- Anarchokawaii has joined. 10:11:36 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:19:30 Apparently Japanese games used to tell you characters' blood types because (some of) the Japanese believe that determines personality 10:19:33 (...somehow) 10:19:42 But just A/B/AB/O; Rh is irrelephant 10:22:10 I'm O 10:22:33 hppavilion[1], it's certainly a lot less illogical than astrology 10:24:16 well, it can affect your chances of getting/having/not dying from certain diseases 10:24:29 but that's a far cry from personalites 10:28:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:33:31 -!- crawler has joined. 10:33:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:33:40 -!- crawler has left ("Leaving"). 10:34:43 Hoolootwo, an awful lot closer than rocks millions of miles away 10:34:47 But yes, it's still a bit odd 10:46:35 Hoolootwo: if some comics or so introduce a fictitious discovery that _does_ prove some linkage between blood types and personality, then I would say it is reasonable :p 10:46:40 otherwise meh 10:47:51 "some of" 10:48:30 ? 10:48:38 (well, reasonable for those works) 10:48:42 i'd say it is as popular as that birthday bullshit 10:49:15 the very congratulation of birthdays? 10:49:46 no, the belief that the date of birth somehiw determines your character 10:49:59 which is nonsense 10:50:01 ah, bio-rhythm bullshit etc 10:51:08 it's almost imaginable that the season in which you were born could determine how you were brought up in the first few months, but really, it doesn't matter that much 10:52:08 Hoolootwo: I've heard that there indeed is a correlation, but to be frank it's mostly a problem of the inflexible education schedule 10:54:36 yeah, at least in my school there were people about 10 to 12 months apart in the same grade, which could definitely cause differences 11:19:57 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 11:20:28 lifthrasiir: the blood type thing was the latest fad for a few years in Europe too. in fact, I assumed it came from Europe. 11:21:16 Mind you, I don't really understand how they work, because most people don't even know what their blood type is until they donate blood or have a serious surgery. 11:21:31 wob_jonas: do not underestimate the role of Japan in the world of superstitions... 11:21:47 most recently, "hydrogen water" (ugh) 11:22:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:23:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:24:03 ah, from an internet search, apparently there might be two different blood type superstitons, a western one and a Japanese one, although they could eventually relate 11:24:23 as for magical water, there are lots of different ones sold here. 11:27:43 mineral water with various compositions, stinky sulphur water from hot springs, acidic drinking water, water with supposedly reduced deuterium content, pí-víz (whatever that means), ordinary tap water bottled under fancy expensive names, ordinary water for homeopathy in tiny glass jars, 11:28:10 oh, and various magical water filters for filtering tap water at your home too 11:28:32 and soda water too of course 11:29:22 oh, and these tap machines that give you water from a 50 liter water bulb brought there the dirty way with trucks instead of through pipes 11:32:20 haha 11:34:34 -!- boily has joined. 11:38:45 https://youtu.be/xP5-iIeKXE8 so meta 11:39:45 myname: so when would there be a self-populating metapixel in life? :) 11:43:29 @ask hppavilion[1] pice? 11:43:29 Consider it noted. 11:51:27 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 11:53:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:03:00 `wisdom 12:03:04 @massages-loud 12:03:04 quintopia said 17h 57m 51s ago: reminder that i'll be at niagara in a week and a half. 12:03:06 numbers//Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ... 12:03:39 `` culprits wisdom/numbers 12:03:42 fizzie evilipse tswett 12:05:47 @oeis 848,1344,1696 12:05:50 Sequence not found. 12:30:08 [wiki] [[Manufactoria]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49811&oldid=39424 * Martin Ender * (+18) 12:30:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BLADE CHICKEN). 12:34:06 -!- Anarchokawaii has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:48:00 [wiki] [[Simplefunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49812&oldid=41458 * Martin Ender * (+25) 13:04:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:06:15 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:23:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:46:25 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:46:27 moo 13:54:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:14:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:20:21 -!- bender has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:41:56 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:02:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:09:12 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:14:53 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented bleence | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 15:22:32 hello? 15:23:17 hih i 15:27:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:28:27 ‘ 15:28:29 @Hello92+4*84*World92+3*............. 15:28:29 Unknown command, try @list 15:28:45 i made hello world in a esolang im working on, just for proof of concept 15:28:50 could be smaller 15:30:13 * moonythedwarf wonders how a quine would be made 15:30:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:30:53 hi Phantom_Hoover 15:31:51 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:32:15 hi `^_^v 15:32:30 <`^_^v> hi moonythedwarf 15:35:50 [wiki] [[User:Moon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49813 * Moon * (+15) Created page with "This is my page" 15:36:03 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49814 * Moon * (+91) Created page with "'''Gravbox''' is a 2 dimensional esolang with a concept of gravity created by [[User:Moon]]" 15:36:07 derp wrong button 15:36:09 Oops 15:36:22 But if you double the oxygen in each molecule, you're not going to have a very fun time drinking it <-- i have this vague memory of using H2O2 for some medical purpose once. Possibly it was for my teeth. 15:36:42 it's a pretty good disinfectant, i think. 15:39:20 or perhaps was for cleaning that dental plate i used... 15:39:24 *it was 15:40:20 > chr 92 15:40:23 '\\' 15:40:43 > chr 44 15:40:45 ',' 15:42:14 moonythedwarf: are you sure that hello world isn't backwards? 15:42:55 oerjan, it's a strong bleach 15:43:19 i know 15:43:25 So teeth makes sense 15:44:47 two chemists walk into a bar 15:45:03 the first one asks for some H2O 15:45:26 the second one says that he would like some H2O, too 15:45:31 the second one promptly dies 15:46:20 oerjan: oh, your right! 15:46:29 derp de derp 15:48:51 ‘ 15:48:52 @92+3*dlroW84*92+4*olleH.............~ 15:48:52 Unknown command, try @list 15:48:54 there. fixed 15:58:15 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49815&oldid=49814 * Moon * (+1792) Finished documentation 15:58:25 doot there thats what i got so far. 16:00:20 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49816&oldid=49815 * Moon * (+96) 16:02:55 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49817&oldid=49816 * Moon * (+46) 16:05:19 * moonythedwarf gives oerjan e=a thanks for pointing out my Hello, World! program in gravbox was backwards 16:06:59 * moonythedwarf goes off to try and prove Turing Completeness 16:07:45 moonythedwarf: with only a stack, you will need to use unbounded integers for that hth 16:08:01 it _is_ unbounded 16:09:09 good. something like fractran might be reasonably easy to compile to this. 16:09:18 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49818&oldid=49817 * Moon * (+33) 16:10:19 first question for myself: how would i reverse the order of the stack? 16:10:35 that's precisely the thing that's impossible. 16:10:52 or wait 16:11:06 you'd need to convert the entire stack to a godel numbering. 16:11:16 that'd work. 16:12:03 huh. maybe that would work using duplicate to make the division undistructive... 16:12:13 wow i think you could make a stack inside the stack 16:13:33 @99*9*^91+91+*/ 16:13:33 Unknown command, try @list 16:13:43 i think you have too few stack operations, you cannot get below the top element without destroying info 16:14:07 true, how about a rotate? move top of stack to bottom or bottom to top 16:14:31 or how could i change one of the instructions to do it? 16:14:35 that would give you a queue, which should be plenty for tc-ness. 16:15:02 even without using unbounded numbers 16:15:48 what would be a good operation to keep the stack? 16:15:51 yet be TC 16:16:31 i think possibly all you need is a swap operation, given clever enough arithmetic 16:16:46 (swap top two elements) 16:17:31 ah. ok. adding.... 16:17:47 that'll be enough to pair elements into one while keeping all info in them, theoretically (but awkwardly) 16:17:51 thanks oerjan 16:18:18 next up i need to think up a conditional loop 16:19:01 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49819&oldid=49818 * Moon * (+48) Added the : instruction, thanks Oerjan! 16:20:30 oerjan: simply being able to be compiled from/to a TC language is enough right? 16:20:31 this language seems designed to confuse underloaders 16:20:43 moonythedwarf: from, yep. 16:20:47 oerjan: oh? unintentional. :P 16:21:18 i was just trying to avoid using any letters for commands. 16:21:31 moonythedwarf: ^:% are :~! in underload 16:21:31 so the a-z/A-Z part works 16:21:51 lol didnt notice 16:22:55 compiling _to_ a TC language is just not being uncomputable, which your language pretty obviously fulfils so far. 16:24:05 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49820&oldid=49819 * Moon * (+109) Added Categorys 16:25:46 Soo if i compile underload to Gravbox, its turing complete.. 16:26:01 thats just a example 16:26:05 yeah 16:26:18 (still think fractran will be simpler) 16:26:49 or well, assuming / is integer division. 16:27:07 er | 16:27:09 oerjan: | is integer division, im thinking up a encoding scheme 16:27:22 \ and / are deflectors 16:28:13 well the thing about fractran is you don't really need any encoding. 16:28:48 no, to store the data, remember : 16:28:57 oh right 16:29:32 fractran generally wants something like 2^n*3^m*5^k 16:29:52 this here is to store '13' and give space for another 2 digit number: 91+3+91+91+** 16:30:10 sadly its a bit.. fat 16:30:20 91+ == 10 16:30:50 just use base 9 16:31:11 * moonythedwarf thinks 16:31:44 i dunno if i want to change the base 16:32:04 moonythedwarf: i mean for encoding, it'll avoid all those 91+ 16:32:31 13 becomes just 49+ 16:33:19 ah 16:33:46 49+91+91+** 16:33:54 shrinks it by 2 characters 16:33:57 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:34:01 good enough for me 16:34:32 although if you also use a-zA-Z, you can probably compress things but it'll be strangely irregular 16:34:45 hmm makes sense too 16:34:58 but then it will be text encoding sensitive 16:35:15 i.e ascii a is diffrent from utf-8 a ( i think ) 16:35:19 no 16:35:34 those are the same, ascii is a subset of utf-8 by design 16:35:42 oh ok good 16:36:48 afk 16:55:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:55:53 <\oren\> yeah, I'm not sure if HOI4 ever ends. I have a game that's almost reached 1952 17:03:02 <\oren\> No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Göring. You may call me Meyer. -Hermann Meyer 17:12:46 Back' 17:14:07 oerjan: even better encoding of 13 into a group: 49+91+^** 17:14:56 which language is that? Befunge? 17:15:33 wait, no, there wouldn't be a reason for the second * there 17:15:48 New esolang :P im tyring to prove the turing completeness of Gravbox (https://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravbox) 17:16:14 thats 13*100, making space for another 2 digit number 17:17:20 im trying to figure out how to implent Fractran, which oerjan said would probably be the most easy to implent 17:18:31 ais523: you have any ideas? 17:18:46 haven't looked at the language yet 17:18:57 moonythedwarf: mind you, i did say compiling, not interpreting. 17:19:00 hellais523 17:19:42 helloerjan 17:19:56 oerjan: oh lol 17:19:57 hellopia 17:20:01 im pretty sure that is possible 17:20:03 hi quintopia 17:20:15 helloonythedwarf 17:20:29 much easier than interpreting, i think 17:20:33 it's not explained all that clearly 17:20:33 I assume that commands run when a ball passes over them? 17:20:42 correct. sorry ill make that more clear 17:21:12 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49821&oldid=49820 * Moon * (+37) 17:21:54 is the stack a stack of bignums? if not, a TCness proof is much harder 17:22:20 actually I kind-of like the version of the language where you have to send balls into the blankness around the program in order to store data 17:24:23 ais523: i never made a variation? 17:24:40 moonythedwarf: the language doesn't specify the stack width 17:24:46 and it's highly relevant here 17:24:53 derp sorry. 17:24:57 I was considering two versions of the language, one where it's a bignum, the other where it's bounded 17:25:10 actually, it is stated. its unbounded values 17:25:19 wise. the stack always starts with a single 0 and has no bounds on number size 17:25:26 ooh, you actually _might_ be able to store info in such balls... 17:25:40 that would need essential use of the gravity, too 17:25:47 oerjan: hmm ill consider it. 17:25:55 gravity _is_ the point of it. 17:26:57 oerjan: 17:26:59 * `>`: Take a item off the top of the stack and store it in a ball. 17:27:00 hm might be tricky though 17:27:01 * `<`: Take the item in a ball and store it in the stack. 17:27:02 oerjan: I think it'd probably work best if you had two balls at opposite sides of the program, the distance between them stores one value 17:27:08 then you use the height of the stack fo the toher 17:27:38 is that what you are thinking of oerjan? 17:27:43 thats just a example btw 17:27:44 ais523: the somewhat tricky part is that all the balls fall in the same direction 17:27:52 ^ 17:27:52 iiuc 17:27:52 oerjan: I know 17:28:03 that's why you have two balls at opposite sides to store one piece of data 17:28:32 ais523: i dont get it. plus. you can have more than 2 balls 17:28:33 hm 17:29:24 it seems awkward to control many balls outside the main program area 17:29:26 moonythedwarf: I know, but you can't move balls independently of each other 17:29:30 but 2 might work. 17:29:59 also < and > make stack manip much easier but don't seem to add any computational power, whether you're using bignums or smallnums 17:30:46 yea i dunno if i will make balls store values 17:31:22 most likely not, as that could be considered a wimpmode :P 17:32:25 is that what you are thinking of oerjan? <-- i certainly wasn't imagining adding a new command for it. that sounds too easy. 17:32:38 oh, well what _Are_ you thinking of? 17:33:07 just manipulating balls with clever use of gravity adjustments and #s 17:33:29 to store values? hmm possible using clever tricks 17:33:43 in the _current definitions_ 17:35:27 oerjan, ais523: so whats your view on the possibility of Gravbox being turing complete? 17:35:50 as i already said, i think you can compile fractran to it, with bignums. 17:36:09 i'm less sure how easy ais523's idea is. 17:36:27 I think it probably is, even without bignums 17:36:41 but that actually getting it to work will be very difficult 17:37:01 * moonythedwarf still wants proof, and will work towards a proof of concept 17:37:08 especially because the control flow "inside" the porgram is affected by the data flow outside the program, as they're both based on the same gravity 17:37:37 ais523: that's why you certainly need to use # 17:37:46 yes 17:37:49 i added walls for a reason :P 17:38:31 however, i think someone clever would realise \/ has the same function as a wall if gravity is going down for example 17:38:49 i think it could be done _without_ walls 17:39:02 oh, that's a bit confusing 17:39:18 are you saying \/ do _not_ change gravity? 17:39:25 no. 17:39:38 they simply send the ball to the side 17:40:18 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49822&oldid=49821 * Moon * (+56) Confusion fix 17:40:51 a ball that falls down onto a / will go left. and continue falling down 17:41:23 ok. btw what happens if it falls onto it from below >:) 17:41:40 it will go to the right and continue going up 17:41:54 or to be smarter: to the ball's left 17:42:22 um that's the ball's right 17:42:28 oh 17:42:31 ok then "{ 17:42:33 :P 17:42:40 might want to change moar 17:43:07 also, dont forget the & instruction (: 17:43:08 yeah the description seems to assume falling down 17:43:14 indeed 17:43:30 oerjan: if you have a better description, please change it 17:44:18 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:45:21 9:%~ stack at start: [0], stack at end: [9] 17:48:53 * moonythedwarf personally hopes oerjan might help a bit more with turing complete proof. because im stuck trying to figure out a implentation 17:49:09 argh 17:50:09 i'm thinking with ais523's idea, it might be enough with two balls, one inside the program area and one (usually) outside it. 17:50:50 and you can store one register in the latter, and one in the stack depth, as he said, which is enough to do a 2-reg minsky machine (or indirectly, fractran) 17:50:58 whats the point of the one outside ot? 17:51:10 also, how would the one outside it store data? 17:51:20 its distance from the program stores one natural number. 17:51:41 and how would we retreive that number? 17:51:45 there'll be a @ at the edge the program that it'll occasionally hit when its 0. 17:51:57 and that's the only interaction it needs, i think. 17:52:09 it will need to be walled in. 17:52:15 no. 17:52:24 it's _supposed_ to roam free. 17:52:40 otherwise there's no way to store unbounded data in it. 17:52:50 true. 17:53:07 but what if it runs into the program? it will break the program 17:53:22 also, it can only hit the @ when the other ball is at the opposite edge of the program, at a specific point. 17:53:52 well the program will be designed so that never happens. 17:54:02 well first i need to come up with more example programs. i dunno if a quine is actually possible 17:54:02 the basic idea is for the @ at the edge to only run back and forth along a specific line 17:54:13 moonythedwarf: if the language is TC, it is 17:54:26 but may require embedding an interpreter for some other language in it 17:55:09 * moonythedwarf wonders if letting the program run a command on the stack would be a good idea 17:55:27 * moonythedwarf thinks no 17:55:39 moonythedwarf: if you want to go for the fractran-with-unbounded-numbers tc proof instead, that should be easier. 17:55:55 i cant find a accurate documentation of fractan 17:55:59 i think a quine might be awkward. 17:56:07 moonythedwarf: on the wiki? 17:56:26 its slightly unclear to me 17:56:41 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran 17:57:19 it's all in the second paragraph, really. 17:57:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 17:59:21 "As an enlightened individual I know that the Islam is not the root of all evil; it's the Catholic church." 17:59:41 sounds englightened.. 17:59:45 *-g 17:59:52 stupid lag 18:00:46 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:02:42 i suspect a quine will be somewhat large, because the language has very awkward (aka you have to design it yourself) string handling 18:03:07 i'd love tp see a quine in funciton 18:03:12 so none of the shortcuts will work. 18:03:16 that'd be glorious as fuck 18:04:01 word. 18:05:11 i guess quines in 2d languages are quite hard in comparisson, aren't they? 18:05:21 like, is there even a quine for befunge? 18:05:44 well befunge has program reading capability 18:05:57 no cheating quines, please 18:06:00 but i don't think it's impossible even without using that 18:06:23 it has reasonable string handling 18:06:52 yeah 18:07:11 funciton has string handling, but it seems kinda limited 18:07:22 but well, just print out the string functions, too 18:08:03 [wiki] [[Al Dente examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49823&oldid=46228 * CatIsFluffy * (+244) added correct addition code 18:09:44 anyway 18:09:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:09:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:11:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 18:13:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:41:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:45:04 what is the least esoteric language on the wiki 18:45:30 The most exoteric language? 18:45:55 french 18:47:54 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:48:00 hmm, http://esolangs.org/wiki/BANCStar wasn't meant to be esoteric. 18:48:40 But in practice I rather suspect it's less known than Brainfuck. 18:50:00 `unidecode COBOL 18:50:04 doot 18:50:07 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:50:09 ​[U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] [U+004F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O] [U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B] [U+004F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O] [U+004C LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L] 18:50:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/COBOL ... why the name... 18:50:54 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:52:27 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:55:16 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 18:58:48 and of course there are a few that are really mathematical in spirit, like Fractran 19:00:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:00:54 That's not esoteric? 19:02:31 More aiming at the "language" part, and also playing advocatus diaboli. 19:03:21 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:03:23 (Since I accept Fractran to be a programming language, actually.) 19:03:35 avocadus di aioli 19:08:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:11:18 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:12:23 -!- carado has joined. 19:15:04 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:16:22 * moonythedwarf pokes the dead bodies littering the channel 19:16:24 channel's dead 19:16:55 rumors of this channel's untimely demise have been greatly exaggerated 19:17:11 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 19:17:26 Channel's significantly less dead than it was in, say, 2005-2007. Not to mention the 2003-2004 era, which doesn't even register. 19:18:15 Avocadus d'aglio 19:19:33 Look, people don't have to be talking all the time. 19:19:51 Especially if, when they do talk, it's just high noise and no signal. 19:20:09 Like, someone saying "avocadus d'aglio" adds no value to the channel 19:20:24 I was thinking of "channel's dead" 19:20:29 That too 19:20:52 I was taking the opportunity to poke fun of myself at providing more noise than signal 19:21:06 I don't think "d'aglio" was so bad. 19:21:13 But look at me, with my aioli. 19:21:13 Taneb: I think you're providing more noise than signal. 19:21:32 Taneb: (Well that sounded funnier in my head than it probably is.) 19:21:44 shachaf, I'm mixing Latin and Italian quite horribly 19:21:52 Those are pretty much the same language. 19:22:12 I was also adding French. 19:22:21 What should I call my D&D character 19:22:22 Is "aioli" etymologically related to "aglio"? 19:22:40 "French, from Provençal ai ‘garlic’ + oli ‘oil.’" 19:22:44 I guess the answer is maybe. 19:31:40 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:32:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:35:29 quintopia: depending on who you ask, maybe Perl? 19:39:43 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:40:29 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host). 19:40:29 -!- sparr has joined. 19:40:29 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:41:10 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:45:08 <\oren\> well, why don't we program a bot to say something random every half hour to make the channel seem more alive? 19:47:11 <\oren\> fungot, does that sound good to you? 19:47:13 \oren\: because it's the wrong kind of life. 19:48:33 (I don't know about you but my client has a visual indicator for channel activity and it would be sad if that indicator became (more) meaningless) 19:48:44 <\oren\> I have been attempting to modify tcc to allow unicode in identifiers 19:49:48 <\oren\> I plan a buch of modifications that will make a version of C that is more modern 19:50:00 <\oren\> *bunch 19:50:02 How many is a buch? 19:50:05 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 19:52:36 Hm, no-got. 19:52:43 <\oren\> well, hppavilion[2^H1], i plan to: allow %, <<, and >> to be used on floats 19:53:11 -!- fungot has joined. 19:53:14 There-got. 19:53:29 fun-got 19:54:11 fungot? 19:54:11 int-e: use microsoft hotmail doe that disables middle-click? 19:54:21 ^style 19:54:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 19:54:21 <\oren\> add the <=> operator 19:54:35 is there a prng that can fast forward n states in less than O(log n) time? 19:54:37 fungot: isn't hotmail dead though? 19:54:37 int-e: could i also have a few choice bits on dabbrev-expand. 19:54:52 fungot: sure, 1010001110101111 19:54:52 int-e: and it sort-of faded into the background to deal with that in mind. 19:55:18 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhungotn 19:55:23 @massages-lud 19:55:23 boily asked 8h 11m 54s ago: pice? 19:55:40 <\oren\> add the use of unless, until, and forever blocks 19:55:41 @tell boily pice = pi times 19:55:42 Consider it noted. 19:55:54 izalove: what's your complexity model? 19:56:04 fungot: Ph'nglui 19:56:05 hppavilion[1]: despite the font the recipes seem rather good. i don't think 19:56:07 int-e: pi 19:56:10 ^mode 19:56:14 ^help 19:56:14 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 19:56:18 <\oren\> and add ^^, logical XOR 19:56:21 ^style 19:56:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 19:56:29 int-e: didn't expect that question, why is it relevant? 19:56:31 Wait, style=fungot? Wat? 19:56:32 hppavilion[1]: np. you could write your own cons. what chandler just said. but minion would put an s there? you're still agreeing about facts. :p 19:56:43 ^style lovecraft 19:56:43 Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) 19:56:44 izalove: I mean, typically I'd say that one needs O(log n) space to encode n, and hence O(log n) operations to even look at n. 19:56:54 fungot: What do you think of the Nemo Point? 19:56:54 hppavilion[1]: with other chiefs a little apart from the growing throng. once i thought even the pounding sea seemed afraid of something, and when toward the small object on the opposite wall. 19:57:15 ^style diskworld 19:57:15 Not found. 19:57:19 int-e: i just need to advance the internal state of a prng 19:57:21 ^style discworld 19:57:22 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 19:57:26 The second sentence is either an exact quote or a REALLY good coincidence 19:57:29 moonythedwarf: -_- 19:57:31 fungot: hi 19:57:32 moonythedwarf: the jug glugged, but with the air of one who has to wave the bag of nappies, and the chuck keys for electric drills.) 19:57:52 int-e: that's fixed size 19:58:23 and obviously there are some prngs that can compute it in less than O(log n) 19:58:44 <\oren\> I really need to write down my ideas for extended C somewhere 19:58:47 int rand () { static int i = 1234; return i++; } 19:59:06 So O(1) then. Anyway, no, I don't know anything better. I imagine that those that can do it on O(log n) are based on some clever linear transformations and square and multiply. 19:59:24 yes that's correct 19:59:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:00:01 (lastval^2)/timeInMS()%timeInNS() 20:04:00 <\oren\> how about an operator like a<-b that just means *a=b 20:04:26 <\oren\> nah, that would cause lexer conflicts 20:04:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:07:42 \oren\: that operator's normally called := 20:07:52 <\oren\> oh, that would work 20:07:54 which I think lexes unambiguously 20:08:42 := normally means dereferencing assignment? 20:09:00 well, it means "assign the value on the right to the name on the left" 20:09:09 and in C, a pointer is the closest thing you have to a name 20:09:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:09:30 C goes to great length to define "lvalues" in its standard 20:09:45 C++ has references which are even closer, though 20:09:54 C++ goes to much greater length to define all sorts of values. 20:10:02 (in other news, "name" being a technical term is very confusing) 20:10:06 <\oren\> references are just an annoying version of pointers 20:10:12 so C's a = b is :=, to my mind. 20:10:23 lvalues, rvalues, glvalues, xvalues, prvalues 20:10:35 *a = b would be something different, as shachaf suggested 20:11:25 well C uses a rather dubious naming convention 20:11:56 <\oren\> I still think the lack of ^^ is totally embarrasing 20:11:56 you can tell something's wrong because unary & exists and doesn't stack 20:12:53 in mathematical languages which have C-like assignment, the typical syntax (using C-like syntax) for C's "a = b" would be "a := *b", and "a := b" would translate to C as "a = &b" 20:12:54 . 20:13:30 uhm. no. 20:13:42 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; x := y 20:13:54 -!- otherbot has joined. 20:13:58 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; x := y 20:13:58 [SyntaxError: Unexpected token =] 20:14:05 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; x : y 20:14:06 2 20:14:06 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: 1, | y: 2 } 20:14:11 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; x:y 20:14:12 2 20:14:12 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: 1, | y: 2 } 20:14:17 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; x?x:y 20:14:17 1 20:14:17 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: 1, | y: 2 } 20:14:20 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; j?x:y 20:14:20 [ReferenceError: j is not defined] 20:14:28 -js var x = 1; var y = 2; var j?x:y 20:14:29 [SyntaxError: Unexpected token ?] 20:14:34 <\oren\> well yeah because a lot of languages have this stupid thing where you can't actually modify values, you instead change what references refer to, and it's optimized into actual calculations afterward 20:15:21 -js new Buffer("\\oren\\") 20:15:22 20:15:22 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] } } 20:15:50 I'm trying to make an insult in Cthuvian 20:16:15 -js new Buffer("\\oren\\").alloc(-7) 20:16:15 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'split' of undefined] 20:16:32 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-1); x 20:16:33 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'split' of undefined] 20:16:35 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-1); 20:16:35 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'split' of undefined] 20:16:37 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-1); 1 20:16:37 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'split' of undefined] 20:16:49 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(1); 1 20:16:49 [TypeError: Cannot read property 'split' of undefined] 20:16:54 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-1,"hi"); 1 20:16:54 1 20:16:55 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: | { data: [ '5c', '6f', '72', '65', '6e', '5c' ], | toString: [Function], | alloc: [Function] } } 20:16:57 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-1,"hi") 20:16:57 20:16:58 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: | { data: [ '5c', '6f', '72', '65', '6e', '5c' ], | toString: [Function], | alloc: [Function] } } 20:16:59 meh. 20:17:02 -js var x = new Buffer("\\oren\\"); x.alloc(-19,"hi") 20:17:02 20:17:02 { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function], | EventEmitter: [Function], | AssertionError: [Function], | assert: { [Function] equal: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | x: | { data: [ '5c', '6f', '72', '65', '6e', '5c' ], | toString: [Function], | alloc: [Function] } } 20:17:11 otherbot, moonythedwarf: get a room! 20:17:15 sorry 20:17:28 * moonythedwarf head back to othetbot's chan 20:17:31 <\oren\> try using /msg otherbot 20:18:11 moonythedwarf: Please spam elsewhere 20:18:11 Oh 20:18:20 You already did 20:18:27 OK, the insult is hupadgh'fhalmanyth nilgh'ri'bthnk 20:18:41 * moonythedwarf pokes hppavilion[1] for telling me to spam elsewhere when i already am 20:18:48 Im deeply offended hppavilion[1]! 20:18:56 :P 20:18:59 Excellent... 20:19:20 * moonythedwarf feeds it to google translate 20:19:21 (lit: born of mother servant of everthing body; intended meaning: your mother is a whore) 20:19:40 moonythedwarf: Google Translate doesn't know R'lyehian 20:20:18 <\oren\> does google translate have elvish yet even? 20:20:54 does hackego know spanish yet even? 20:21:16 <\oren\> it ghas esperanto, which is almost as fictional 20:21:37 `words --spanish 10 20:21:43 flex xan auseudo jeffolucie modim weldeos reústrar ferestruile himko fuérativa 20:21:55 `words --fizzie10 20:21:56 Unknown option: fizzie10 20:21:59 `words --fizzie 10 20:22:01 Unknown option: fizzie 20:22:16 <\oren\> `words --quenya 10 20:22:18 Unknown option: quenya 20:22:18 `words --latin 10 20:22:18 what a surprise, a big screenful of bot spam 20:22:19 Unknown option: latin 20:22:35 <\oren\> `words --hebrew 10 20:22:40 ​הפםיק הלוגים ולפרה במעקרי ייענו וסו כשמתיר ויזיוו יספרו האגיעות 20:22:41 <\oren\> `words --greek 10 20:22:43 Unknown option: greek 20:22:49 `words --russian 10 20:22:54 moonythedwarf: stahp 20:22:58 kk 20:22:59 `` words --list # please check the list instead 20:23:01 ​медхедететя перевне продскатеы нигоршяхъ сопаевкамъ фиклообр проненасе негланные велите геразду 20:23:04 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 20:23:22 <\oren\> `words --canadian-english-insane 10 20:23:26 lazedearlyleterm neuropical unprovidular robracter ponsligh bunoplanapproom microco aralina azalistop outseleotion 20:23:32 And also please use /msg 20:23:33 I don't believe in "-теы" 20:23:51 or "хъ" for that matter. 20:24:27 uh'e'bthnknyth 20:25:15 :-) 20:25:36 moonythedwarf: do you to take the ridiculous job of porting NodeJS non-SO-binding-dependant core modules to otherbot's sandbox? Its just some thousand lines and an event loop 20:25:51 ._. 20:25:54 no thanks 20:30:29 <\oren\> ויזיוו <- "uiziuu"? doesn't sound very triliteral 20:31:23 it's trifigurative 20:31:26 <\oren\> maybe it's "vizivu"? 20:31:53 lol 20:31:59 <\oren\> iirc ו can be used as "u" or "v" 20:32:11 <\oren\> like in latin 20:32:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:34:24 <\oren\> `words --hebrew 10 20:34:30 ​הזמ כשנשק והחלט ומיות החסש ובהשקה מאמת מעמ המצו מוב 20:35:07 <\oren\> `words --polish 20:35:11 garnicerko 20:35:16 <\oren\> `words --polish 10 20:35:23 wywanaragen nie odwiskowalistów słuczem nieanty tłoczeszno smakrępowyko znego błyszartecha piernitówkowadzani 20:40:33 -!- iovoid has changed nick to [io]. 20:41:02 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid. 20:42:58 -!- iovoid has changed nick to [io]. 20:43:00 -!- Elronnd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:43:03 -!- yorick_ has joined. 20:43:03 -!- yorick_ has quit (Changing host). 20:43:03 -!- yorick_ has joined. 20:43:19 -!- alakra has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:20 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:44 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid. 20:44:41 -!- Tefaj has joined. 20:48:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:48:37 -!- staffehn has joined. 20:49:56 -!- Yurume_____ has joined. 20:50:00 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:50:02 -!- staffehn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:50:03 -!- Yurume____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:52:42 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 20:58:19 -!- Elronnd has joined. 20:58:30 -!- Yurume_____ has quit (Read error: Network is unreachable). 20:59:48 -!- Yurume_____ has joined. 21:06:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:09:09 -!- alakra has joined. 21:09:57 -!- heroux has joined. 21:13:17 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:17:37 Apparently "sick" is another of those words that have different meanings on the two sides of the ocean: in American it primarily means ill (in the sense of having an acute health problem), but in British it means nauseous 21:17:58 In American slang it also means good, I think. 21:18:00 moooo 21:18:10 This explains a lot. I know it had two different meanings that seem contradictory, but I didn't realize it was a continent thing like "pants". 21:18:10 wob_jonas: it can mean either nauseous or vomiting, in the UK 21:18:17 and as a noun, it's a synonym for "vomit" 21:18:28 * moonythedwarf pokes wob_jonas in the wob_jonas 21:18:32 "feeling sick" means nauseous, though (because vomiting is an action rather than a feeling) 21:18:37 ais523: ok 21:19:01 Can I just use "ill" and hope Americans understand it too? 21:19:23 I don't want to bother with words that require a dialect decision if I don't have to 21:19:31 like "corn" 21:19:47 "corn" vs. "maize"? 21:20:07 Or do you mean that "corn" also doesn't want to bother with words that require a dialect decision? 21:20:29 shachaf: "corn" means any sort of edible grain on one shore of the ocean, which is called "cereal" on the other; but means maize (the sweet yellow grain) on the other side 21:21:01 but with words like this, I never know which side of the ocean is which, and even if I could remember, I wouldn't want to bother figuring it out what it means here 21:21:23 so I should avoid "corn" and just say "maize" for one sense, and "grain" or "cereal" for the other sense 21:21:53 But many people in the US won't understand what you mean if you say "maize". 21:22:02 the second sense is the more important one, because I also won't try to remember the specific names for all the types of grains in English. 21:22:23 shachaf: ok, let's ignore the maize, I just want something that means any sort of grains 21:23:08 I know what "wheat" is, but I've no idea how the names of all the other types of grain in English correspond to the grains 21:23:20 so I probably just want to mention grains in general 21:23:32 as in, edible grains you can make bread from 21:23:50 or let's say edible grains you make flour from 21:24:29 (yes, I also know which one is "rice".) 21:30:32 It's cute when people use a Cross of Saint Peter (inverted cross; essentially, where † (dagger) is a Christian cross, an inverted dagger (which apparently doesn't exist in Unicode) is this) as a satanic symbol 21:30:37 wob_jonas: "cereal" is the general word I think 21:35:03 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:35:09 The Cross of Saint Peter has its origins in the legend (that isn't in the bible AFAICT, so I'm not sure whether it's considered officially true by the various churches) that St. Peter requested that he be crucified upside down because he felt he was unworthy of dying the same way as Jesus 21:37:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:37:07 I'm actually really a fan of the Gospel of Judas, which tells a different story of Jesus's crucifixion, saying that Judas didn't betray Jesus- Jesus told him to tell the romans where he was because it was necessary and stuff. 21:38:14 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:38:40 is fungot here by the way? 21:38:41 wob_jonas: simon licked his dry lips. he motioned carrot towards one gate and dragged nobby and colon to the other fellows.' 21:39:00 a pratchett style? 21:39:12 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:11 ^style 21:40:11 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:40:15 yep 21:40:40 ^style nethack 21:40:40 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 21:40:50 is that better fungot? 21:40:50 quintopia: skeleton: a sub-species of the valkyries were the voices of men whose very souls were under siege; men to whom he was dressed in a small time they will wait for the lion; he scares up game, which one's real? xander: let go of the slain, the xorn has the power of wading through the air. 21:41:50 -!- Elronnd- has joined. 21:42:35 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 21:42:51 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 21:45:11 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:46:11 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 21:46:59 ...OK, on second thought, the GoJ is terrible. 21:48:44 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:49:07 -!- zemhill_____ has joined. 21:49:30 -!- zemhill____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:50:33 What's the opposite of Italy? 21:50:58 `? italy 21:51:05 italy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:51:27 coitaly 21:52:34 Somewhere in the south pacific 21:52:45 hpp: rome probably 21:53:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:53:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:53:31 wob_jonas: No, Rome is the midpoint of Italy and whatever the opposite 21:53:47 Basically, I need to know what to call reverse italics 21:54:41 I currently just call it Ylatic 21:55:30 Taneb: yes. somwhere east of new zealand 21:55:50 (Though strictly, what I'm calling 'italic' is actually 'oblique'; 'italic' is a combination of oblique form and script style) 21:56:07 call it coblique 21:56:08 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:58:09 quintopia: Yeah, I just thought of that xD 21:58:32 Call what I was calling 'italic' 'oblique' (as it should be) and the reverse 'coblique' 21:59:48 quintopia: I also want double-italics, which occasionally serve useful purposes. If I have double-oblique, I also have to have double-coblique; but would oblique-coblique and coblique-oblique be distinct from plain roman? 22:00:50 (I am of the opinion that Blackboard Bold should be considered a proper font, and all fonts should support it together with italic and bold (and italic-bold)) 22:02:54 quintopia: Oh, backwards italics can be called "Iranic" 22:03:07 (Because it's basically how you'd italicize Arabic) 22:04:29 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:05:29 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 22:07:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:08:43 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 22:09:12 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:09:18 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:15:08 <\oren\> why is budapest pronounced pudapesht 22:16:56 \oren\: part of it's just spelling; the sound spelled "sh" in English is spelled "s" in Hungarian, and the sound spelled "s" in English is spelled "sz" in Hungarian 22:17:18 Because place names are often borrowed before linguistic evolution and/or spelling reform 22:17:22 <\oren\> oh, so they just took the hungarian spelling. 22:19:45 <\oren\> and the pronounciation, without regard to confusion 22:21:48 \oren\, I've only heard it pronounced the way that would be natural in English 22:21:58 why is gaszpaczo pronounced the way it is 22:21:59 Then again, the closest I've been to Hungary is South Tyrol 22:22:19 shachaf, it's sparkling paczo 22:22:19 `? gaszpaczo 22:22:21 gaszpaczo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:22:27 I guess I got the spelling wrong. 22:22:37 `` rgrep -il sz wisdom 22:22:47 wisdom/ha \ wisdom/gazspaczo \ wisdom/b_jonas \ wisdom/disflagrate \ wisdom/hungarian \ wisdom/ent \ wisdom/szoup \ wisdom/gaszpacho \ wisdom/middle worse 22:22:59 `? gazspaczo 22:23:02 gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 22:23:05 `? gaszpacho 22:23:07 gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days 22:23:10 `? szoup 22:23:12 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 22:23:21 `? shachaf 22:23:22 Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. 22:24:47 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:24:57 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 22:27:19 <\oren\> hmm, maybe I just know a lot of people who are pretentious and pronounce foreign words the foreign way 22:27:38 <\oren\> like "frankfurt" -> "fronkfrt" 22:28:28 \oren\, how about Ljubljana? 22:29:00 Ljubljana is TG 22:29:18 Taneb: Have you considered moving to Ljubljana and doing things with Andrej Bauer? 22:29:35 shachaf, not the second half. Who is Andrej Bauer? 22:29:37 <\oren\> "liubliona" 22:30:14 Taneb: andrej bauer is the best hth 22:30:18 <\oren\> oh and of course "paris" "paree" 22:30:34 Taneb: http://andrej.com/fan.html 22:31:06 I think he was looking for PhD students. 22:31:11 At one point, anyway. 22:31:13 So you could go do that. 22:31:22 \oren\, I am not, however, happy about the American pronunciation of Bologna 22:33:45 <\oren\> I say "bohlohnya" 22:34:05 <\oren\> muricans say "balonee" 22:36:50 I think I will go to bed now 22:36:51 Goodnihgt 22:36:53 *night 22:40:49 In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA#Brackets, where it talks about the third kind (pipes or double slashes, indicating an underlying construct that sounds different), it says that |s| might be used to claim that phonemic /tɔːks/ and /lʌlz/ are essentially |tɔːks| and |lʌls| underneath. 22:41:05 "/lʌlz/" 22:41:24 ...Oh, looking above, it's 'lulls' 22:45:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:47:14 -!- Elronnd- has changed nick to Elronnd. 22:53:45 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: not lulz 22:54:02 \oren\: ? 22:54:16 <\oren\> roffle 22:54:50 <\oren\> roflolkek 23:05:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:13:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:15:33 I'm defining a new set of math symbols that have a few nicer properties 23:17:28 - is being changed to something like a NOT sign (¬) flipped over the midline 23:19:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:20:14 With the justification that this way, commutative operations are represented by signs with vertical symmetry and non-commutative operations aren't 23:21:06 oerjan: oh, man, remember https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 ? 23:21:28 "those were the days" 23:22:57 * oerjan recognized the number, even 23:24:40 remember https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/10000 ? 23:25:11 no, i've completely forgotten it, probably wasn't important hth 23:25:12 still a little annoyed that #10000 is considered a duplicate, when the content of it was much more troubling than the thing it was a duplicate of 23:26:25 -!- boily has joined. 23:26:44 `wisdom 23:26:46 costume//Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them. 23:26:47 @massages-loud 23:26:47 hppavilion[1] said 3h 31m 5s ago: pice = pi times 23:26:59 hppavellon[1]. tdh. 23:27:10 bohily 23:27:14 -!- Menphis has joined. 23:27:14 etth 23:27:36 hellørjan. 23:29:40 But I'm defining their appearance with 2 points A & C, 5 operations / (midpoint), - (line), @ (circle), ^ (join), , (swap), two stack operations : (dup) and $ (drop), * for drawing, and some pure sugar 23:29:48 All in RPN 23:33:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:34:28 `? stume 23:34:29 stume? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:34:46 @wn splay 23:34:47 *** "splay" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 23:34:47 splay 23:34:47 adj 1: turned outward in an ungainly manner; "splay knees" 23:34:47 n 1: an outward bevel around a door or window that makes it seem 23:34:47 larger 23:34:49 [8 @more lines] 23:35:55 @more 23:35:55 v 1: spread open or apart; "He splayed his huge hands over the 23:35:55 table" 23:35:55 2: turn outward; "These birds can splay out their toes"; "ballet 23:35:55 dancers can rotate their legs out by 90 degrees" [syn: {turn 23:35:55 out}, {splay}, {spread out}, {rotate}] 23:35:57 [3 @more lines] 23:36:27 @more 23:36:27 3: move out of position; "dislocate joints"; "the artificial hip 23:36:27 joint luxated and had to be put back surgically" [syn: 23:36:27 {dislocate}, {luxate}, {splay}, {slip}] 23:37:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:37:50 i hope i shall never need a stume, i think. 23:38:37 fungot: fungellot. what's a stume? 23:38:37 boily: touch*stone: " by crom, there will be tempted to hit, use a unicorn happy is to give it to paralyse creatures up to the protozoa. slime molds have complex life cycles with an enchanted tooth? 23:38:56 ^style 23:38:56 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:39:12 fungot: something that paralyzes you up to the protozoa? uuuuuurgh! 23:39:12 boily: stair*: up he went for the head were riveted to this question! how much wood could a woodchuck could chuck wood? " oh, heck! i'll handle *this* one! 23:39:28 i didn't know slime molds had teeth, but that's nethack for you, i guess. 23:40:26 `? cosplay 23:40:27 Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people. 23:40:37 oerjan: Well, they don't usually. That's why it's an enchanted tooth. 23:40:44 OKAY 23:41:35 fungot: do you have teeth? 23:41:35 boily: extra staircases lead to extra levels. perhaps our appearance produces a similar feeling in the hand that held axes and short swords; and they were wolves, but, whoever he was working at the man in the midst of the nethack project, and which is tipped with hardened steel. 23:43:03 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:23 `learn Splay is a painful pastime that is dual to cosplay and the supersymmetric partner of ordinary play. Recuperation, when even possible, may require wearing a stume. 23:43:30 Learned 'splay': Splay is a painful pastime that is dual to cosplay and the supersymmetric partner of ordinary play. Recuperation, when even possible, may require wearing a stume. 23:43:38 oerjan: But what's a splay tree? 23:44:19 Doesn't the stume cowear you? Or perhaps goatear? 23:44:23 oerjan: that is the main reason why the often look so ackward? 23:45:49 Zarutian: i am not sure whether you are making a grammatical error, or aiming for a truly horrible pun i've missed 23:46:11 quite possibly both 23:47:25 oerjan: keyboard crud is the reason for that one. Dont ask why that key though. 23:48:36 also, i'm probably not getting whichever reference you were actually aiming for. 23:49:36 `le/rn stume/A stume cowears and goatears you. That is the main reason why the often look so ackward. 23:49:42 Learned «stume» 23:50:20 i believe `learn would have worked there. but now all is clear, thank you. 23:50:47 oerjan: 'y' that key, geddit? ;-Þ 23:51:25 Zarutian: are you from Iceland, eh? 23:51:27 Zarutian: that's only one of the errors hth 23:52:00 and i'm still not sure what "they" refers to. 23:52:18 boily: possibly. If you are going to ask for a polarbear pelt signed by Björk then I cannot help you. 23:52:34 oerjan: (co)splay-ers 23:53:00 i think the splaying itself does that, Zarutian 23:53:03 oh, none of the sort, thanks. 23:53:03 boily: both are rather þorny I fear 23:53:22 * boily þwacks Zarutian. 0.76 shachafs. 23:53:46 Zarutian: what about if he asks for a hákarl sample? he'd be the most likely person in the channel to do such a thing... 23:53:54 HEY! 23:53:57 I was typing it! 23:53:59 * Zarutian wiðdraws into his aramoured keyshell. 23:54:15 boily: SEE? 23:54:57 I wonder if it can be shipped here... I know for a fact that surströmming is banned, but maybe shark is OK... 23:55:00 eh, ya really want to try hákarl? 23:55:06 of course! 23:56:59 here is a substitute you could try at home: take a few newspapers, the yellow the better. Put them in a blender a few pages at a time with generous helpings of cat piss. Turn on the blender, then put the mass into an compression strainer and let it dry out over a week. 23:57:22 then you get what I tasted and sensed when I tried hákarl. 23:57:52 I am sure the urea in it had not been gone properly though 23:59:05 can I use marine biology magazines? regular newspapers lack sharkiness... 2016-09-30: 00:02:36 boily: only the ones on crustaseans, otherwise it is not salty enough 00:02:52 getting this strange impression Zarutian doesn't like hákarl, even marinated. 00:03:17 oerjan: it is too basic for me 00:04:09 (antonymic of acid for the ones slow on the uptake) 00:04:39 * oerjan btw learned yesterday that crustaceans are to insects like dinosaurs are to birds 00:05:52 except for the extinct part, i guess. 00:05:53 oerjan: well isnt that exoskelent (excelent)? 00:06:02 oerjan: I'm sure there are some extinct crustaceans 00:07:07 * boily thwacks Zarutian. 0.33 shachafs. 00:07:11 humm, I wonder if you could keep land crabs in lower and lower airpressure for their generations and get a space worthy one. Call it Something Blue 00:07:27 boily: It would be good if you switched to a different unit that doesn't hilight me. 00:07:37 oh hm. right. 00:07:48 the symbol shall be the «Sh». 00:08:21 `slwd shachaf//s# T.*## 00:08:25 wisdom/shachaf//Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. 00:08:35 `? oerjan 00:08:36 Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord quack doctor oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Pre-recombination Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:08:45 boily: i hope you subtracted points for explaining the pun 00:08:45 `slwd oerjan//s#doctor ## 00:08:47 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil hungarian oerlord quack oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Pre-recombination Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:09:21 oerjan: a good -0.1 Sh were removed. 00:09:43 `slwd oerjan//s#hun#bul# 00:09:46 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian oerlord quack oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Pre-recombination Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:12:23 shachaf: why do you remove one of the few true parts tdnh 00:12:42 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa 00:12:42 also, what's the fun in the unit if it's abbreviated... 00:12:49 oerjan: hun or dr? 00:12:58 "doctor" 00:12:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:13:31 Herr Professor Doktor Oerjan 00:13:53 oerjan: Are you sure you *want* "doctor" to be there, if it's preceded by "quack"? 00:14:08 `slwd oerjan//s/Nor/Glas/ 00:14:10 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian oerlord quack oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:14:21 escalation! 00:16:12 ah, of course Spaghetti is already an esolang 00:17:00 resistance is Fusilli 00:17:12 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:17:12 Is "Oerjan" or "OErjan" the correct capitalization? 00:17:26 had a vague idea that might match such a name (some kind of goto-oriented programming) 00:17:45 the former looks better 00:18:38 `slwd oerjan//s#fu#su# 00:18:41 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian oerlord quack oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:18:43 There you go. Doctor. 00:19:03 doctoerjan 00:19:36 `slwd oerjan//s#(oerlord) (quack)#\2 \1# 00:19:37 sed: -e expression #1, char 26: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS 00:19:47 That was too much to hope for. 00:20:08 slwd might be using the stupid regexps by default 00:20:16 `slwd oerjan//s#\(oerlord\) \(quack\)#\2 \1# 00:20:18 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack oerlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:21:00 `slwd oerjan//s#oer#doctover# 00:21:03 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack doctoverlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:21:58 hellolsner. 00:22:13 `sedlast s#with a pasjon#and passion fruit# 00:22:21 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack doctoverlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:22:37 hm that may actually be true 00:22:39 `? betty crocker 00:22:40 Betty Crocker is a notorious gambler. 00:22:49 `cwlprits betty crocker 00:22:55 fizzie evilipse shachaf 00:23:00 helloily and byely (niht) 00:23:00 i am not a crock 00:23:11 `relcome olsner 00:23:15 ​olsner: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:23:17 I thought "relcome" meant "welcome back". 00:23:17 @nixon what about you 00:23:18 The press is the enemy. 00:23:25 @nixon 00:23:25 I can take it. The tougher it gets, the cooler I get. 00:23:37 shachaf: back? I was always here 00:23:49 `? olsner 00:23:50 @nixon what do you think about the upcoming presidential election in the united states 00:23:50 I played by the rules of politics as I found them. 00:23:51 olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. 00:24:09 @nixon and you think the current candidates should do the same? 00:24:09 Scrubbing floors and emptying bedpans has as much dignity as the Presidency. 00:25:36 * Zarutian finds the USA presidental election cycle as apealing and quick as removing teeth through the use of live bambo sprouts. 00:25:56 You just want Nixon back? 00:26:47 add on top of that the local parlimentary elections here that came about due to exposure of corruption and you get me rather cranky 00:27:13 shachaf: more like Kennedy 00:27:17 Hm, do Spivak pronouns distinguish animate-inanimate? 00:27:43 parliament? are you some sort of communist 00:27:48 @nixon 00:27:48 Voters quickly forget what a man says. 00:28:55 @time oerjan 00:28:56 Local time for oerjan is Fri Sep 30 01:28:55 2016 00:29:01 but people remember what you have done (against them) on their part 00:29:14 oerjan: are you wearing an orange t-shirt? 00:29:37 oerjan: Hmm, are you actually evil? 00:29:54 If not, maybe we should update that wisdom entry. 00:30:26 `slwd oerjan//s#doctoverlord#octoberlord# 00:30:29 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:30:41 boily: grey hth 00:31:04 Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan 00:31:13 Your mysterious evil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan 00:31:17 This is pretty good. 00:31:37 OK, the lack of adverbial forms of numbers other than {1, 2, 3} is REALLY bugging me 00:31:46 Can we please just invent a system for this? 00:31:49 adversarial forms 00:32:15 We have "once, twice, thrice" 00:32:39 `slwd oerjan//s/evil/weevil/ 00:32:41 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious weevil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 00:32:51 We can add {-1, -2, -3} with "negative once, negative twice, negative thrice" (or s/negative/minus) 00:33:24 -!- Menphis has joined. 00:33:39 0 should probably be 'nulce' 00:33:41 hppavilion[1]: "einnar" is adverbial form? ("Single (feminine) ") 00:34:01 Zarutian: ...no? 00:34:05 Oh, I'm doing it for English 00:34:34 `slwd oerjan//s#doctoverlord#octoberlord# <-- hey i had that thought 00:34:42 hppavilion[1]: you have actually made this lack in English saliant to me 00:34:53 If we go by the same system as ordinals (e.g. "ninety-first"), we just need to name 0..19 (and probably just 0..9) and have a way of naming multiples of 10 00:35:38 hppavilion[1]: stop complaining, norwegian doesn't have adverbial forms for numbers at all... 00:35:54 oerjan: That's Norwegian's problem 00:36:40 oerjan: hvad? det kan ikke vera svo? eller er det svo? 00:37:20 So if second is the object at index 2 and something twice means something that has occurred 2 times, when ninety-first is the object at index 91, and something that has occurred 91 times happened ninety-once 00:37:21 Zarutian: once = en gang, twice = to ganger, etc. no inflection. 00:38:02 oerjan: so it is. This means it is also such in Danish and Swedish. 00:39:26 nulce, once, twice, thrice, fice, vice, sice, sevice, eice, nince, tence, elevence, twelce, thirteence, fourteence, .., ninteence, twentiece 00:39:44 une fois, deux fois, trois fois, quatre fois... pour une fois que le français fait du sens, tsé... 00:40:12 thirtiece, fourtiece, fiftiece, sixtiece, seventiece, eightiece, ninetiece, hundredce 00:40:40 Thousandce, [myiace], millionce, billionce, trillionce 00:40:40 the white cliffs of doctoverlord 00:40:43 And so on 00:41:09 There, english is now less bad 00:41:10 boily: meanwhile, latin has a comprehensive set. semel, bis, ter, quater ... 00:41:28 hppavilion[1]: but this applies to how something happens n times and not the exact cardinality of something else? 00:41:35 That's a scow way to extend a language. 00:41:38 Zarutian: Correct 00:41:48 Better to use separate words than inflecting. 00:41:57 itym a scowce way hth 00:41:59 shachaf: -ce is no different from -th 00:42:13 boily: No, ace scow way 00:42:27 ? 00:42:29 fith? 00:42:29 oerjan: can you tell me if this phrase "memento vitae" is correct latin for "I am reminded that I am alive and joyously existant" 00:42:32 vith? 00:42:40 shachaf: fifth 00:42:51 Better to learn Chinese. 00:43:10 Fource and fifce would be fine, I guess... 00:43:25 (Though 'quice' might be better for 4) 00:43:27 sith? 00:43:36 shachaf: lojban has its charms and doesnt require you to trying to learn to differeniate between modal tones. 00:43:36 absolutely not 00:43:42 Lojban is scow. 00:43:56 The "absolutely not" was a response to "sith?", not to lojban. 00:44:10 Tones aren't even that hard, I assume. 00:44:22 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:44:23 Zarutian: no, memento is imperative. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/memini#Latin 00:44:32 When I listen to Mandarin for a while I can usually distinguish them after a bit. 00:44:46 oerjanto 00:44:47 shachaf: for someone who is somewhat tonechange deaf it is a problem. 00:45:04 How do you think Chinese speakers handle it? 00:45:15 Or are they none of them "tonechange deaf"? 00:45:31 Or maybe it's too late for you, in your advanced age, to learn it. 00:45:32 oerjan: oh, as the phrase "memento mori" as said to Cesar literally means "remember thou art mortal" 00:46:13 Why would it literally mean something in Elizabethan English? 00:46:35 shachaf: literally used here in figgurative sense 00:46:53 remember you are figurative 00:47:11 whoa whoa whoa 00:47:12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_English 00:47:12 shachaf: and not verbtaim unless as a quote to a movie on the life and death of Cesar 00:47:36 The King James Bible came out after (most of) Shakespeare's plays. 00:47:47 Zarutian: well "mori" means to die, infinitive, but i guess latin uses it metaphorically 00:48:05 In the Jacobian era. And yet Leibniz was only born decades later? 00:48:16 this does not add up hth 00:48:36 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/memento_mori#Latin 00:49:08 shafchaf: oyj dont expose the timewars stitchings this harshly 00:49:44 shafchaf: it is bad enough to have some people so hopelessly stuck in the past that never was. 00:49:45 whoa whoa whoa 00:49:53 The Jacobian is named after King James. 00:50:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented six times | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 00:51:27 * Zarutian adds: specially when we got historical characters that never should have been at all. 00:51:39 Taneb: favorite king james: i-v of scotland, i-iii/vi-viii of england and scotland, or one of the spanish ones? 00:52:58 well, I am off to bed 00:53:08 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:55:32 King John / Put up a notice, / "LOST or STOLEN or STRAYED! / JAMES JAMES / MORRISON'S MOTHER / SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN MISLAID. / LAST SEEN / WANDERING VAGUELY / QUITE OF HER OWN ACCORD, / SHE TRIED TO GET DOWN TO THE END OF / THE TOWN - FORTY SHILLINGS REWARD!" 00:57:06 That lining is all wrong. 01:00:20 -!- augur has joined. 01:05:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:11:08 -!- augur has joined. 01:11:14 shachaf: What, the matrix? 01:11:21 Who? 01:11:26 Jacobian. 01:11:35 Yes. 01:11:39 Very mysterious. 01:11:47 16:48 In the Jacobian era. And yet Leibniz was only born decades later? 01:12:32 I didn't read that far back up. 01:12:49 i think the picture here has the right expression for your claim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_Jacob_Jacobi 01:14:19 boily: hello 01:25:56 ...wtf, doctors. You want BMI calculated as m/h^2, but you want us to just drop the units? seriously? 01:26:32 They say you calculate BMI with weight (kg) divided by height (m), but the result isn't given in kg/m^2 01:26:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:39:20 If dy/dx is the derivative of a function, can one do other derivatives? 01:39:36 hppavilion[1]: dy/dx is the derivative of y with respect to x 01:39:41 ais523: Yes 01:39:46 and in this case, y is defined as a function of x 01:40:02 for example, if y=x², then dy/dx = 2x 01:40:05 Like, if I have a function f(x, y, z) = o, I can do do/dx, do/dy, do/dz 01:40:18 you could also write that like this: d(x²)/dx = 2x 01:40:31 hppavilion[1]: in that case you have what's called partial derivatives 01:40:35 quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA. 01:41:14 ais523: But can I then do derivative in multiple dimensions? Probably something like f(x, z) = y, dy/dxdz or something? 01:41:27 (How do you even refer to slope in multiple dimensions?) 01:44:02 hppavilion[1]: you could do it at an angle, dy/d(x+z) 01:44:08 OK... 01:44:21 but slope in multiple dimensions is normally referred to using two different slopes 01:44:29 dy/dx and dy/dz in this case 01:45:52 ais523: Would dx/dy (for y = f x) mean the derivative of a function g x = 1/f x? 01:46:21 hppavilion[1]: depends on what you mean by "1/f"; it's the derivative of the inverse of f 01:46:56 ais523: 1/(f x) 01:46:59 possibly f-1'(x)? 01:47:14 (I suddenly curried everything) 01:47:18 ais523: Did you see all my questions about Leibniz notation in here? 01:47:25 Maybe you know the answers. 01:47:30 shachaf: no, but I'm not sure I could answer them 01:47:37 It sounds like you have the same answer to the first question that I did. 01:47:49 hppavilion[1]: the derivative of 1/(f x) is calculated quite differently 01:47:53 ais523: Oh 01:48:05 Namely, when you write dy/dx, y is an expression with free variable x, and it means D(\x. y)(x) 01:48:17 Where D : (R -> R) -> (R -> R) is the differentiation operator on functions. 01:48:38 ais523: I defined division of strings yesterday... 01:48:39 shachaf: I don't think of it like that at all, although it does seem correct 01:48:48 Oh, then how do you think of it? 01:48:48 like, that's just a really alien point of view to me 01:48:54 shachaf: in terms of limits 01:49:04 One person I talked to insisted that the thing on top of dy/dx is a function, rather than an expression. 01:49:23 Would dx/dy be basically f-1'(x) than or have I got that wrong? It's been years since I did all this in my first year of Uni... 01:49:36 Well, sure. Df(x) = lim_{h->0}{ (f(x+h) - f(x)) / h } 01:49:38 DHeadshot: no, that's right 01:50:02 shachaf: I'll buy that 01:50:05 dx/dy = 1/(dy/dx) 01:50:05 Thanks ais523 01:50:23 the thing is I think of the dx and dy things as being deltas on x and y that are inherently self-limiting 01:50:51 This notation is obviously great because it works so well. 01:51:02 dy/du * du/dx = dy/dx, 1/(dy/dx) = dx/dy, etc. 01:51:11 shachaf: right, and the delta notation explains why it works 01:51:14 shachaf: I'm pretty sure d is just an abstract symbol; dy/dx = limit(λ k -> (y*k/x)/(k), approach=0) 01:51:21 If I'm reading Wikipedia right 01:51:37 And turning limit into a function anybody could ever understand 01:51:53 I have seen delta-x/delta-y in some equations, though I forget why 01:52:12 like, the way I think about d is 01:52:17 you replace it with delta 01:52:27 then take a limit on the entire expression containing it in which you tend the deltas to 0 01:52:45 ais523: What do you think of the thing people do where they have e.g.: x^2 + y^2 = 1; d(x^2 + y^2) = d(1); 2x dx + 2y dy = 0; dy/dx = -x/y 01:52:47 the fact that it has an effect on the containing expression means that it isn't quite a variable or something that can be manipulated in its own right 01:53:24 shachaf: it's fun when it works, but not necessarily worth memorizing the rules needed to know whether it will work or not 01:53:30 limit :: t → (t → u) → u 01:53:39 ais523: What are the rules? 01:53:51 I don't know, I didn't memorize them 01:53:52 lim : (R -> R) -> (R -> R) 01:54:07 ais523: Everyone says these rules are ad-hoc. 01:54:18 shachaf: I think my version is better 01:54:20 Well, physicists just use them. 01:54:26 well, I think there's a mathematical basis behind why it works 01:54:49 But they work so well that I think there has to be a good way of formalizing them. Even if dx is just a synthetic symbol or whatever. 01:54:59 is the limit of (f x) as x goes to a 01:54:59 My L : (R -> R) -> (R -> R) is pretty good. 01:55:07 A function f is continous if Lf=f 01:55:16 shachaf: L is a continuiser? 01:55:18 shachaf: Mine doesn't require that you use the real numbers 01:55:31 Neither does mine, if you come up with another structure that it works for. 01:55:43 OTOH, shachaf understands Calculus and I do not 01:55:51 But you need to constrain t and u somehow. 01:56:01 hppavilion[1]: it's not as hard as people think it is 01:56:03 ...I searched Duck Duck Go for "limits". The first suggestion for meaning was in the BDSM sense 01:56:06 Lf(x) is a function which behaves kind of like f but maybe differently. Except it might be extremely different. 01:56:10 at least, differential calculus 01:56:26 ais523: Anyway, the thing about x^2 + y^2 = 1 is that neither x nor y is a function of the other one. 01:56:37 But the derivative is still defined. 01:56:48 One way to make sense of that is to parameterize them both on some other variable t. 01:56:53 x=sin t, y=cos t 01:57:00 yes, that's a well-known trick 01:57:05 And then "dy" really means "dy/dt" and "dx" really means "dx/dt" 01:57:16 But the thing is that the value of dy/dx is independent of your parameterization. 01:57:26 it would have to be 01:57:31 So why should you have to say that it's parameterized in the first place? I just want a direct meaning of "d". 01:58:53 People also do other tricks. They write: dy/dx = Ky; dy/y = K dx; \Int{dy/y} = \Int{K dx}; log(y) + C = Kx + D 01:58:58 well, with the limits interpretation, dy/dx is perfectly meaningful here, so long as you can describe "a small change in x and y simultaneously while obeying the equation" 01:59:00 It almost always seems to work. 01:59:03 that's basically what t does 01:59:17 it allows you to describe how to change x and y while keeping the equation satisfied 01:59:28 Another thing you can write is d(x^3)/d(x^2). So the thing on the bottom isn't even a variable. 01:59:41 there are other equations, such as cos(x)+sin(y)=2, which can't be perturbed while keeping the equation satisfied 01:59:53 so I suspect that equation isn't differentiable 02:00:09 what happens if you try the physicist trick on it? 02:00:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DECANTED CHICKEN). 02:00:48 This is all starting to get a bit "black-magic proofs"... 02:01:03 DHeadshot: right, we're busy debating if the proofs work or not and if so why 02:01:05 hmm, let's try it 02:01:09 cos(x)+sin(y)=2 02:01:14 d cos(x) + d sin(y) = d 2 02:01:26 cos(y) - sin (x) = 0 02:01:31 dy/dx = sin(x)/cos(y) 02:01:38 You're missing the dx and dy 02:01:38 ais523: But if we define the division of two strings s and t s/t (where every character in t appears at least as many times in s- written tally(s) :≥ tally(t)) as- non-deterministically- any string that can be generated by removing the same number of occurrences of a character from the top string as appear in the bottom string 02:01:46 shachaf: ah right 02:01:47 s/But // 02:03:07 ais523: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cos(x)%2Bsin(y)%3D2 is the graph of that function. 02:03:30 It doesn't look very interesting, so I'd expect its tangents aren't very interesting either. 02:03:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:03:55 But take cos(x)+sin(y)=0 instead. 02:03:55 shachaf: it's basically a grid of dots 02:04:15 I did that intentionally, to make it impossible to usefully draw a tangent 02:04:18 Ah, right. 02:04:53 Points like (0,pi/2) 02:05:19 But note that the derivative dy/dx is independent of the value 2 here. 02:05:37 (There are certain special types of quotient; for example, a Simple Quotient of s/t is any string in the set of quotients of s/t that have the smallest edit distance using the Simple Distance metric (which allows nothing but insertion and deletion of arbitrary-length continuous blocks of text)) 02:05:58 Graph isn't showing up for me? 02:06:01 shachaf: try cos(x)-cos(y)=0 02:06:12 the tangents to that are really easy to define 02:06:26 however, changing the 0 to a different value changes them 02:06:30 (A Proper Quotient of s/t is only possible when t is a proper substring of s (and you just remove that substring), a Perfect Quotient is a Perfect Quotient where the substring is at the very end) 02:06:39 ais523: Right, but dy/dx is defined in terms of both x and y 02:06:46 oh right 02:06:51 that's a good point 02:06:52 So 'abcdefg'/'fg' = 'abcde', and that's a perfect quotient 02:07:02 ais523: Same thing for the circle: x^2+y^2=k has the same tangents no matter what the radius is, in terms of x and y. 02:07:27 ais523: Which makes dy/dx = -x/y a much better answer than something like dy/dx = -x/sqrt(1-x^2), which only works for one radius. 02:07:45 (And also it works for the whole circle rather than just the top half.) 02:07:47 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:07:49 ais523: But my point is, with this needlessly convoluted system of string functions, can we start to play with dy/dx of y = f(x) when the function is f : String → String? 02:08:07 shachaf: the formula with sqrt also works for both halves :-P 02:08:19 hppavilion[1]: I'm not really interested in the topic, sorry 02:08:22 Depending on what you mean by sqrt. 02:08:24 ;/ 02:08:26 *:/ 02:09:28 Anyway, dy/dx = sin(x)/cos(y), at (0,pi/2), is 0/0 02:09:35 And the derivative is indeed not defined. 02:09:44 So it's not so bad. 02:11:06 Er, no. 02:11:14 Er, yes. 02:11:26 ...OK, on second thought, the GoJ is terrible. <-- that didn't take long 02:11:39 Oh, you wrote cos(x)+sin(y)=2 02:11:45 That's why it wasn't working. 02:12:06 But when cos(x)+sin(y)=2, cos(y) will always be 0 02:13:38 -!- augur has joined. 02:16:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:17:37 I have more things on this topic but I'm not sure whether ais523 isn't interested in either one. 02:17:43 I'm curious about the "self-limiting" thing. 02:19:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:20:13 Last time I was wondering about how this worked for second derivatives. 02:20:43 I'm fairly sure it does but am possibly too tired to figure out how 02:20:56 I think you have to take a limit /of/ a limit 02:21:03 What do you think about the notation d^2y/dx^2? 02:21:13 which is why the d²y notation exists 02:21:22 Right, I believe that d(dy) has a meaning. 02:21:28 But why do you divide by dx twice? 02:21:29 (specifically, it's d²y/(dx)²) 02:21:42 bleh, I can't remember 02:21:49 And in particular if you work it out, you get an extra term. 02:21:50 I knew the reason once, and it was a good one 02:21:53 I just can't remember what it was 02:22:04 Which maybe should be 0 and maybe shouldn't? oerjan was saying something about it. 02:22:09 Say you parameterize everything in terms of dt. 02:22:28 Question: what's this channel for? 02:22:32 So d(...) really means what people usually write as d(...)/dt 02:22:36 it's like ##programming ##math and ##english 02:22:38 `welcome Bowserinator 02:22:39 Bowserinator: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:22:49 *clicks* 02:22:53 Bowserinator: notionally it's about esoteric programming languages 02:22:56 oh :) 02:22:59 but it tends to go offtopic a lot 02:23:01 I like this channel already 02:23:09 I think Leibniz notation isn't really too far from esoteric languages. 02:23:21 right, the things we discuss are normally related to esolangs in some ways 02:23:29 Recently I learned a new word, "exoteric", meaning the opposite of esoteric. 02:23:34 e.g. they're the result of applying an esolang frame of mind to something other than programming 02:23:41 English is an esoteric natural language, for example :-P 02:24:52 if you tried to design an esolang to work like English 02:25:01 admittedly you'd probably end up with Perl, which is not quite esoteric 02:25:17 (Larry Wall was a specialist on natural languages and used English as a model when creating Perl) 02:25:38 ais523: Anyway, I think you get: d(dy) = d(dy/dx)/dx^3 + (dy/dx) d(dx) 02:26:28 Bowserinator: ohai 02:26:36 -!- otherbot has joined. 02:26:41 my bot has too many interpreters 02:26:45 blame moonythedwarf 02:26:47 -list 02:26:47 jeffl35: echo ping pong eval flushq help list use store cash inv savecstate buy sell give kick ban unban op deop mode attack poke join part reload whois nick pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lolr ><>r js rsc ul makeCmd userland rulc pnig 02:26:50 -pnig 02:26:50 LEARN TO TYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!11!!!!1!!! 02:26:52 lol 02:26:53 jeffl35: hackego has way more 02:27:04 ais523: So d^2y/dx^2 = d(dy/dx)/dx + (dy/dx) d^2x/dx^2 02:27:08 ais523: yeah, probably, considering it's been in development for a few years 02:27:12 What's the meaning of that extra term? 02:27:19 ohb tw 02:27:23 otherbot has a cas! 02:27:27 -giac integrate() 02:27:28 Added 0 synonyms "integrate(NULL) Error: Bad Argument Value" // Time 0 // Total time 0 02:27:35 jeffl35: the main bot in this channel for years was egobot 02:27:41 hackego has all its interpreters 02:27:42 yeah, ik 02:27:51 oh 02:27:53 read that wrong 02:27:59 lol 02:28:02 `! underload (test)S 02:28:03 test 02:28:08 Wasn't bot spam supposed to go in #esoteric-blah, anyway? 02:28:14 -ul (test)S 02:28:14 ​test 02:28:17 :D 02:28:25 shachaf: no idea 02:28:27 shachaf: #esoteric-blah is basically for anything that's particularly spammy that we don't want cluttering this channel 02:28:33 like pasting entire text files directly into IRC 02:28:33 like stack traces! 02:28:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:38 or that 02:28:50 my bot has a bad habit of outputting whole stack traces to irc when run on the wrong node.js version 02:29:05 its rules are very similar to #esoteric's except a) there's no rule against flooding (in fact, it's somewhat encouraged) and b) people hardly ever speak there unless a conversation gets moved there from here 02:29:29 -giac integrate(5x-4) 02:29:30 Added 0 synonyms 5*x^2/2-4*x // Time 0.01 // Total time 0.01 02:29:34 well, there we go 02:29:46 -giac dxdy() 02:29:46 Help file /usr/share/giac/doc/local/aide_cas not found Added 0 synonyms dxdy // Time 0 // Total time 0 02:29:56 definitely not a thing 02:30:03 -giac derivative() 02:30:03 // Maximum number of parallel threads 8 Help file /usr/share/giac/doc/local/aide_cas not found Added derivative 02:30:10 -giac derivative() 02:30:11 C.UTF-8 // /usr/share/locale/ // derivative 02:30:15 -giac derivative() 02:30:15 Added 0 synonyms derivative // Time 0 // Total time 0 02:30:17 ais523: Is (dy/dx)^2 = dy^2/dx^2? 02:30:22 ???????????????????????????????????? 02:30:39 shachaf: I think so 02:30:59 oerjan was pointing out some counterexample a few days ago. 02:31:11 Which led me to think that I wasn't sure about d^2x/dx^2 02:31:20 Should it be 0? 02:31:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:32:53 -!- augur has joined. 02:33:08 shachaf: good point, second derivative of x is 0 02:34:10 which means that you can't treat that like a normal division 02:34:11 Say you parameterize it in t, so d means derivative with respect to t. x = t^2; d(dx) = 2; dx^2 = 4x^2; d^2x/dx^2 = 1/(2x^2) 02:34:34 So certainly it doesn't just naively work when you parameterize it like this. 02:38:31 If it's not normal division, what is it? 02:40:20 Say everything is parameterized in t, dy/dx = u. That means dy = u dx, so d(dy) = du dx + u d(dx) 02:40:28 Should that much be permitted? 02:41:18 ugh, I'm too tired to figure this out 02:41:23 also haven't had to calculus this much in years 02:41:31 @time ais523 02:41:32 Local time for ais523 is Fri Sep 30 02:41:32 2016 02:44:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:45:59 -!- Akaibu has quit. 02:48:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:52:55 -!- super_bender has joined. 02:56:40 shachaf: i assumed this was what those extra terms in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials were supposed to fix 02:56:58 oerjan: Didn't we have a counterexample? 02:57:00 (for the x not the independent variable case) 02:57:32 I mean, those extra terms were the same as the ones I had given before. 02:58:06 i'm pretty sure i was all quacked out at that point 02:58:14 Ah, right. 02:59:11 Let's see. 02:59:43 -!- super_bender has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:02:50 I've forgotten the example. There were two of them. 03:04:50 i vaguely think my original example was based on assuming f''(x) = d^2 y / (dx)^2 held and getting a contradiction if dx is 0 because x = g(t) where g'(t) = 0. 03:06:13 OK, one example had x=t^2, y=t^3 03:06:17 Let me work through that again. 03:06:50 hm i suppose what happens with the expanded formula is that d^2 y does not determine f''(x) 03:07:17 f'' means d(dy/dx)/dx? 03:07:24 Er, f''(x) 03:08:01 instead, when dx = 0, you get f'(x) = d^2 y / d^2 x. which looks like l'hôpital. 03:08:52 (vaguely) 03:09:02 Hmm, there's an easier way of looking at it, I guess. If d(dy/dx)/dx = d(dy)/dx^2, then d(u/v) = d(u)/v, which is obviously not true in general. In general d(u/v) = (v du - u dv)/v^2 03:09:22 Which is equal to d(u)/v when dv = 0 03:09:45 shachaf: oh, i still cannot get my head around trying to calculate second derivatives like d(dy/dx)/dx, because scope. 03:09:54 oerjan: What? There's no scope issue there. 03:10:14 If y is an expression in x, y = x^2, then dy/dx is also an expression in x, dy/dx = 2x 03:10:56 OK, I guess what you're saying is that there might be confusing shadowing going on there. 03:11:04 yeah 03:11:15 I'm hoping that that's not true but I can see the objection. 03:11:34 But I don't want to write f''(x), because y might not be a function of x 03:12:16 i think it might be worth avoiding explicit division. 03:12:47 OK. 03:12:55 Well, you can do it with products too. 03:13:05 Instead of dy/dx = u, write dy = u dx 03:13:25 that way, you won't divide by zeros 03:13:27 Then d(dy) = du dx + u d(dx) 03:14:11 If you could divide by dx^2 here, you would get d(dy)/dx^2 = du/dx + du d(dx)/dx^2 03:14:26 But that probably isn't necessary. 03:14:41 i think that's precisely the formula from wikipedia? 03:15:11 Sure, except I wrote u instead of f'(x) 03:16:23 Anyway: If dy = u dx, then d(dy) = du dx + u d(dx) 03:16:24 Always true? 03:16:51 and we're allowed to replace du dx by f''(x) dx^2 assuming f''(x) exists, even if dx is 0 03:17:18 But that one only makes sense if y is a function of x. 03:17:46 no, because the ordinary chain rule works for first derivatives 03:18:05 Doesn't f only make sense if y = f(x)? 03:18:12 well yeah 03:18:24 that's the assumption in the formula. 03:18:26 That's why I was avoiding it. 03:19:05 but if it isn't, then i'm not sure dy = u dx is conceptually true 03:19:24 Because y = f(t), x = g(t) 03:19:45 And dy/dt = u dx/dt 03:20:10 OK, I got the algebra wrong last time, I think. 03:20:22 ok, assuming dx/dt isn't 0 anywhere dy/dt isn't 03:20:51 Sure. 03:21:07 Say x=t^2, y=t^3. 03:21:10 Then it works out. 03:21:12 or actually, if both are 0 you need l'hôpital again 03:21:26 d(dy) = 6t, du dx = 3t, u d(dx) = 3t 03:23:47 oerjan: So it's sounding like it actually is the same scope? 03:24:37 yeah maybe 03:25:05 So the lesson here is that the notation d^2y/dx^2 is kind of broken. 03:25:32 In particular it only works when d^2x = 0? 03:25:43 But what does it mean for d^2x to be 0? 03:26:11 well it's true if x is the independent variable 03:26:19 What does that mean? 03:26:37 the one everything bottoms out as functions of 03:26:37 I thought half the point of this notation was that you can just do these mafipulations on their own and they work. 03:26:53 I'm trying to get a parameterization-free version of it. 03:27:10 and then you need the d^2 x term, i guess. 03:27:33 I'm OK with that. 03:28:19 It's even useful to know: The usual second derivative expression d^2y/dx^2 off by (dy/dx) (d^2x/dx^2) 03:28:26 What's the meaning of that? 03:29:10 I mean, that looks like an important expression, so where else does it come up? 03:31:37 Say I just have some expressions or functions or whatever else. How do I decide whether d^2x = 0? 03:31:49 In differential geometry, d^2 = 0 always, right? Are these related? 03:32:08 differential geometry is antisymmetric, i don't think this is 03:32:22 As in dx dy = -dy dx? 03:32:24 *the forms of 03:33:10 Maybe this is antisymmetric when you have multiple independent variables? 03:33:22 We've been making the assumptions that y and x are functions of the same thing. 03:34:36 On the other hand https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/ae52a2c75169e1884e87a001e385e94ce7164111 doesn't look very antisymmetric either... 03:35:00 i'm not sure what happens for second derivatives when you vary more than one independent variable, although there was some partial stuff in that wp section too 03:36:35 If dy = f'(x) dx, then dy dx = (f'(x) dx) dx and dx dy = dx (f'(x) dx) 03:37:20 And given that these things are linear, those should maybe be equal? 03:37:32 you'd think. 03:37:33 I guess it depends on how you define the product. 03:39:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_form says the exterior derivative "extends the differential of a function" 03:44:03 -!- wanderman has joined. 03:44:54 oh well 03:52:40 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 03:59:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:00:16 `? oerjan 04:00:17 Your mysterious weevil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 04:00:43 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, did you slwd your own wisdom entry? 04:01:05 -!- Tefaj has changed nick to Jafet. 04:03:33 `emoclew Tefaj 04:03:35 ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) . :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :jafeT 04:05:10 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:09:15 is 960x720 720p? 04:10:00 > 720 * 16/9 04:10:02 1280.0 04:10:05 no hth 04:10:16 then i feel cheated 04:10:46 this torrent i just illegally downloaded was supposed to be evangelion in 720p but it's 960x720 04:11:13 > 960/720 04:11:15 1.3333333333333333 04:11:31 maybe it didn't claim to be 16:9 04:11:43 i guess "4:3 720p" would be that 04:11:48 > 1280-960 04:11:50 320 04:12:05 it's only off by a few pixels 04:12:37 i'll ask for a full refund 04:16:12 fahcahellos 04:16:21 full refund? what nerv. 04:25:01 720p is literally "720 vertical lines, progressive" (as opposed to interlaced) 04:25:12 It could be just 1 pixel thick and still count 04:27:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Powering off). 04:28:30 that's why i couldn't get a refund 04:38:29 -!- tromp has quit. 05:26:33 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:32:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:33:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:37:12 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:38:38 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:42:44 -!- wanderman has joined. 05:47:18 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:03:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:20:17 -!- brandonson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:24:54 Is it appropriate just to say n! = gamma(n+1) and be done with it? 06:27:36 For whom? 06:54:03 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:54:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:11:53 shachaf: Humans? 07:14:37 -!- wander___ has joined. 07:17:29 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:18:17 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to radiohead. 07:19:01 -!- radiohead has changed nick to Elronnd. 07:27:34 hppavilion[1]: only when the audience has enough knowledge about gamma function 07:27:47 lifthrasiir: Well yeah 07:46:56 [wiki] [[Biota]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49824&oldid=30500 * Martin Ender * (+19) 07:47:53 [wiki] [[Quipu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49825&oldid=45982 * Martin Ender * (+39) 07:48:59 -!- augur has joined. 07:49:00 [wiki] [[Marbelous]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49826&oldid=45195 * Martin Ender * (+57) 08:01:52 -!- wander___ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:28:48 I vote we make Abortion clinics (and anything associated with birth control) use a variant symbol of the Rod of Aesculapius that replaces the snake with a wire coathanger. Because I'm a bad person. 08:31:15 Do you actually mean that you're a bad person? 08:31:53 If so, saying you're a bad person doesn't exempt you from any of the consequence of acting in a bad way. 08:32:05 shachaf: I know 08:32:13 shachaf: I thought the imagery was funny 08:32:35 -!- wanderman has joined. 08:34:45 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:38:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:42:37 [wiki] [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49827&oldid=35363 * Martin Ender * (+57) 08:42:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:43:16 -!- augur has joined. 08:47:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:47:33 -!- augur has joined. 08:52:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:08:48 -!- carado has joined. 09:21:43 [wiki] [[RUBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49828&oldid=33697 * Martin Ender * (+39) 09:23:08 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:25:19 -!- augur has joined. 09:47:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 10:05:20 oerjan: So when people differentiate twice, they write (d/dx) . (d/dx) 10:05:32 (d/dx) really means (/dx) . d 10:05:48 So differentiating twice is (*1/dx) . d . (*1/dx) . d 10:06:36 If 1/dx is a constant, then the multiplication commutes with d. If not then you need to add an extra term. to account for how it changes. 10:07:20 ((d^2/dx^2) means ((*1/x) . (*1/x) . d . d), of course.) 10:11:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:11:38 s=/x=/dx=g 10:11:54 Er, yes. 10:13:06 and you're in somewhat murky territory (treating d as a separate operator), but I suppose you know that. 10:13:33 Yes, see either conversation with ais523 a few hours ago or the conversation with oerjan a few days ago. 10:13:45 It's somewhat murky but I'm trying to figure out how d behaves in order to make it less murky. 10:14:00 In order to make it work I've been saying that x and y are both secretly defined in terms of t. 10:14:17 d(e) means what people would normally write as de/dt 10:14:44 And everything works pretty well, d(x^2) = 2x dx and so on. 10:15:57 But the second derivative of y in terms of x isn't d^2y/dx^2, it's d^2y/dx^2 - (dy/dx) d^2x/dx^2 10:16:40 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:17:25 Or you can just say d(dy) = d(dy/dx) dx + (dy/dx) d(dx) 10:18:55 Is it the case that (dy/dx)^2 = dy^2/dx^2? 10:20:40 If y is in terms of an independent variable x, (dy/dx)^2 = dy^2/dx^2, and the second derivative is d^2y/dx^2. So f''(x)/f'(x)^2 = d^2y/dy^2? 10:20:51 (Where y = f(x).) 10:21:14 d(2x)/dx = 2; d((2x)^2)/d(x^2) = d(4x^2)/d(x^2) = 4 = 2^2 10:21:16 Does f''(x)/f'(x)^2 have a standard name? 10:21:39 So, that's one black crow 10:21:46 Taneb: ? 10:21:58 shachaf, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox 10:22:38 I'm not following. Are you saying that there's a flaw or that what you just said is irrelevant? 10:23:34 d(4x^2)/d(x^2) is certainly 4. 10:23:58 d(4u)/du = 4 for any choice of u 10:24:25 shachaf, I'm saying it's a tiiiiny bit of evidence that's ultimately useless 10:24:37 Evidence of what? 10:24:55 Is it the case that (dy/dx)^2 = dy^2/dx^2? 10:25:22 dx^2 means (dx)^2 10:25:53 Ah, I misinterpreted you 10:26:24 This isn't something I know very well at all I'm afraid 10:27:43 The question I asked was kind of meaningless in itself. 10:28:21 Taneb: Wait, didn't you invent D-modules? 10:28:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 10:28:39 D-modules were the original tanebvention. 10:29:00 Your name is right there on the Wikipedia page. 10:33:15 shachaf, that was a long time ago, I'm very rusty 10:33:43 oldneb 10:33:56 Taneb: are you interested in the lentil stew i made in the pressure cooker today 10:34:32 this reminds me that I wanted to understand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_ring a while ago... 10:34:52 (well, the concept, not necessarily the wikipedia page) 10:35:04 what about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_ring 10:35:39 No I wasn't reminded of that at all until you brought it up. 10:36:17 webrings were kind of cute 10:36:37 Oh, this seems interesting. 10:37:14 I didn't know people talked about "local" behavior in purely algebraic structures like rings. 10:47:03 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:02:17 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 11:02:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:03:03 Say y=sin(x). Then d^2y/dy^2 = -tan(x)/cos(x)? 11:03:16 I'm going to sleep. 11:19:05 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/hoi4uk.PNG 11:19:24 <\oren\> I think the uk has done well foer itself this time 11:19:41 Very united 11:20:28 I never got the hang of HOI4 11:20:40 <\oren\> the trick is to use lots of nukes I find 11:21:00 <\oren\> annihilate anything even resembling industry 11:21:08 Historically only two were used 11:21:55 <\oren\> I used uh... well, basically several on every city in continental europe... 11:22:18 Could you use strategic bombing instead? 11:22:36 <\oren\> you can 11:22:48 <\oren\> but I used nuclear ballistic missiles 11:23:02 That's a bit of a nuclear option, so to speak 11:23:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:23:30 <\oren\> I also used them to soften up the maginot line for my advance into germany 11:25:01 <\oren\> hoi4 doesn't seem to model the problems resulting from driving a tank into a fallout zone mere hours after the nuke was used 11:25:25 <\oren\> not very realistic 11:25:31 I suspect that if it did you'd be playing this somewhat differently 11:25:52 Or at least not telling your tank drivers everything 11:28:10 <\oren\> Ooh, with all this territory, I can create various countries with stupid borders, causing hilarous problems. 11:28:36 -!- Deepfriedice has joined. 11:28:38 Just like the UK did in real life! 11:28:50 (who the hell thought East Pakistan was a good idea) 11:28:56 -!- Deepfriedice has left. 11:30:19 (and whatever happened in the middle east) 11:30:29 My best game of HOI4 I think I was playing as Iran 11:30:39 <\oren\> I creared west germany. but its capital and only major city is Arad 11:31:03 I went fascist and took most of the middle east that wasn't British or French 11:32:33 Then I ended up at war with the Soviet Union and realised not having manpower could be an issue 11:36:47 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:35 <\oren\> I know what I'll do. I'll try to fill up every building slot in my giant territory, then create a new set of european countries 11:37:54 <\oren\> then nuke the USA 11:39:52 he\\oren\. 11:44:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:51:20 <\oren\> boily: Hi 11:51:39 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/hoi4uk.PNG <-- here's where I'm at now 11:55:19 that's a very big UK... 11:57:24 <\oren\> I may try to make it bigger by killing the USA 11:59:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 12:02:52 United Kingdoms of Eurasia-Africa 12:15:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:24:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HEAVY CHICKEN). 12:37:17 i have 32 bytes. what's the best way rotate them right by 123? 12:44:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:53:09 ror rax, 123 12:56:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:04:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:14:35 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:16:57 -!- Kaynato has joined. 13:38:30 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:42:25 how do i celebrate the day i will be able to breath through my nose again? 14:05:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:18:05 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 14:18:09 Boo 14:18:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:19:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:19:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 14:20:35 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:43:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:49:36 @tell shachaf oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, did you slwd your own wisdom entry? <-- see `? overlord hth 14:49:36 Consider it noted. 14:55:37 `? overlord 14:55:40 Evil overlords do evil acts like taking over the world, kicking puppies, and changing their own wisdom entries. 14:58:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:00:26 `? lambdabot 15:00:27 lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. 15:00:32 @src 15:00:32 src . Display the implementation of a standard function 15:00:36 @src 1 15:00:37 Source not found. My mind is going. I can feel it. 15:00:41 @src list 15:00:41 Source not found. 15:00:45 @src 2 15:00:45 Source not found. Your mind just hasn't been the same since the electro-shock, has it? 15:00:49 @src 3 15:00:49 Source not found. You untyped fool! 15:00:52 @src 4 15:00:52 Source not found. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! 15:00:57 wat 15:01:04 @src 4 15:01:05 Source not found. Abort, Retry, Panic? 15:01:06 @src 4 15:01:06 Source not found. Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash. 15:01:10 @src 4 15:01:10 Source not found. My brain just exploded 15:01:11 @src 4 15:01:11 Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 15:01:13 @src 4 15:01:13 Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! 15:01:15 @src 4 15:01:15 Source not found. Do you think like you type? 15:01:17 @src 4 15:01:17 Source not found. :( 15:01:18 why would you expect number literals to have sources 15:01:23 Dunno 15:01:35 @src > 15:01:35 x > y = case compare x y of 15:01:35 GT -> True 15:01:35 _ -> False 15:01:59 oh thats for haskell things. ok 15:02:11 also, a certain fake einstein quote comes to mind. 15:03:30 -!- Caesura has joined. 15:05:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:05:27 hm, well actually lambdabot _did_ respond differently. 15:05:41 `quote insane 15:05:44 122) pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" \ 397) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and 15:05:52 `quote 397 15:05:55 397) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 15:06:47 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:12:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:19:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:19:20 -!- wanderman has joined. 15:28:21 myname: 32 bytes 15:39:05 eax 15:39:14 -!- Menphis has joined. 15:44:02 my eax isn't that large <.< 15:45:07 izalove: try xmm0 16:04:42 izalove: how is your rax too large and your eax not large enough? 16:05:03 rax isn't too large -.- 16:05:13 huh 16:05:23 32 >>bytes<< 16:05:32 ah m( 16:05:38 256 bits 16:07:00 Would that I knew x86 to help :( 16:07:15 right, I should've suggested ymm0 16:08:15 oh and they have zmmi as well... what will they use for 1024 bit registers? 16:08:35 @djinn ((a -> b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c 16:08:36 f a _ b = a (\ _ -> b) 16:08:55 int-e: ammi 16:08:58 int-e: wmmi? 16:09:07 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:09:07 following the x,y,z,w convention for 4D coordinates 16:09:15 > succ 'z' 16:09:17 '{' 16:09:26 {mmi ok 16:09:43 |mmi }mmi ~mmi DELmmi 16:12:17 interesting... i cannot smell yet but i can somehow "taste" that the tissues i use have some kind of balsam herbs in them 16:14:26 * moonythedwarf is still trying to figure out how to make and present proof of turing completeness for gravbox (https://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravbox) 16:15:14 you should put urls in <> rather than () 16:15:20 kk 16:15:43 template your urls 16:16:19 x> is the official(tm) way to do that 16:16:36 most software recognizes that and does not make the > as part of the link 16:16:52 @djinn a -> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> c 16:16:52 f a b c = b (c a) 16:16:55 the ) however will be made part of the link somewhere 16:16:56 oerjan suggusted fractran, but managing the value might be a issue, any better lanugage to use to prove turing completeness? 16:17:52 <<< there 16:17:59 what's hard about managing the value, just keep it on top of the stack 16:18:18 oh true enough. ais was confusing me there 16:19:20 ais idea is if you want to avoid bignums 16:19:59 ah 16:20:22 well i _dont_ want to. *me goes off to translatea fractran program to gravbox 16:21:43 what happens on division by 0? 16:22:01 shouldn't be an issue with a normal fractran program 16:22:17 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49829&oldid=49822 * Moon * (+103) Minor instruction change 16:22:33 int-e: depends on interp sadly, most likely a error 16:23:44 moonythedwarf: that's not minor, now you have a full queue i think 16:24:30 unless you don't actually remove the original second to bottom, in which case it just became useless. 16:25:07 moonythedwarf: also, this will be much more awkward to use when you _do_ want to manipulate as a stack. 16:26:18 also that phrasing is pretty confusing. 16:26:36 speaking of confusing phrasing, what does "divide from" mean? 16:27:33 yeah there are also plenty of commands that don't say whether they delete their arguments 16:27:56 although it would be pretty awkward if they didn't 16:29:20 * oerjan recommends forthy stack notation. see e.g. Underload or Glass pages. 16:30:33 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49830&oldid=49829 * Moon * (-106) 16:32:08 so basically you have *one* scratch register now 16:32:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:33:28 looks like it. 16:34:10 now if we could somehow pop a value without any other effect that could be used to swap the top two elements of the stack, hmm 16:34:24 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:34:29 0*+ does that 16:34:37 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49831&oldid=49830 * Moon * (+3) 16:35:13 int-e: ^ 16:35:17 ah. so :0*+:^: 16:35:43 oh actually there's a % command 16:35:46 oh now it's back. 16:36:03 ah. so :%:^: then 16:36:14 (but : has just changed once again) 16:36:43 oerjan: you pointed out a way for me to cut out % :P now its gone because you pointed out a alternative, or should i keep it 16:36:51 because 0*+ makes it into a wimpmode 16:37:04 you don't have to be as minimal as possible 16:37:11 true enough. 16:37:19 afk 16:37:41 moonythedwarf: well technically 0*+ only works if there's at least two stack elements to start with 16:38:32 but in the context where one treats the bottom element of the stack as a scratch register that's true already, so it was perfectly in line with what I needed 16:38:44 moonythedwarf: also, int-e pointed out how to implement the top 2 swap using the top and bottom swap 16:38:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:38:53 or wanted... I don't really need any of this. 16:39:52 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49832&oldid=49831 * Moon * (-3) Reverted 16:41:15 int-e: i don't think your :0*+:^: can be right because it deletes the bottom of the stack 16:41:38 oerjan: it's a scratch register 16:41:45 :-P 16:42:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:42:24 (My idea was to just not use the bottom of the stack for anything besides temporary storage.) 16:42:47 ok 16:43:11 but yes, I could've mentioned that. 17:12:45 back 17:28:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:31:33 -!- Caesura has joined. 17:56:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:16:20 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:17:14 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 18:20:54 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:25:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:25:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:38:30 -!- newsham has joined. 18:50:49 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:59:49 -!- augur has joined. 19:08:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:08:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:16:57 -!- augur has joined. 19:35:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:35:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:36:28 -!- augur has joined. 19:47:22 -!- Menphis has joined. 19:59:19 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:31 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:05:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:23:06 -!- Reece` has joined. 20:31:41 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:36:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:43:38 -!- Cale has joined. 21:02:10 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 21:02:10 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:02:22 -!- nitrix has changed nick to MeMyselfAndI. 21:03:01 -!- MeMyselfAndI has changed nick to nitrix. 21:04:21 In the rule update bulletin for Magic: the Gathering, they mention that the first card that created any tokens did use the term "create", although they changed it and now they changed it back to "create". 21:05:25 ?messages-loud 21:05:25 boily asked 4d 19h 58m 4s ago: hezzo38. are you unprovable? 21:05:26 wob_jonas said 4d 59m 1s ago: You know that Agner Fog's calling conventions manual http://www.agner.org/optimize/#manual_call_conv describes most of the details of the schemes used by popular C++ 21:05:26 compilers, right? In theory that allows you to call C++ functions, but \ 21:05:26 wob_jonas said 4d 58m 43s ago: it doesn't allow you to access a lot of structures defined by the C++ standard library, because the ABI for that is decided not by the mangling, but by the struct 21:05:26 declarations, inline function definitions, and other declarations and macro definitions in the headers, and Agner's manual doesn't describe that because it would be almost imp 21:05:27 shachaf said 3d 9h 32m 40s ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_of_a_function#Higher-order_differentials 21:06:04 zzo38: As that page points out, d^2y/dx^2 = d(dy/dx)/dx + (dy/dx) d^2x/dx^2 21:06:50 Or just d^2y = d(dy/dx) dx + (dy/dx) d^2x 21:06:53 Or something. 21:07:55 Yes I did read that now 21:09:02 Do you like that? 21:09:27 Yes, OK now I can understand better 21:12:11 You can? 21:12:24 How can you tell whether d^2x = 0? 21:12:35 Is (dy/dx)^2 = (dy^2/dx^2)? 21:13:21 Say d^2x = 0. Then (d^2y/dx^2)/((dy/dx)^2) = (d^2y/dx^2)/(dy^2/dx^2) = d^2y/dy^2? 21:13:49 If y = f(x), then d^2y/dy^2 would be f''(x)/f'(x)^2? 21:14:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:28:11 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 21:35:26 -!- Caesura has joined. 21:38:43 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:45:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:55:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:16:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:16:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:26:42 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:27:12 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:27:25 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:29:57 -!- heroux has joined. 22:49:21 -!- boily has joined. 22:51:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:54:19 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:55:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:56:42 `wisdom 22:56:51 obell//The obell is what we ring each time a new strip of the o webcomic is published. 22:58:08 When at library recently I have read book about GURPS; there is a lot of stuff there, but some things it doesn't seems to say such as about defining a group of powers that share the number of limited use per day, or limited number of uses per day of an attack that only expends a usage if the attack hits, or for an advantage or disadvantage to enable, disable, or alter another advantage or disadvantage 22:58:23 `learn OL stands for Original Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList. 22:58:29 Learned 'ol': OL stands for Original Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList. 22:59:20 I like GURPS. it has Montréal as a city-state ^^ 23:38:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:39:28 `date 23:39:30 Fri Sep 30 22:39:17 UTC 2016 23:39:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:40:13 -!- heroux has joined. 23:40:38 The Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Sixteen 23:41:01 shachaf: i am eagerly looking forward to my time of lordship hth 23:41:20 that would be The Year of Our Overlord 23:41:29 `? oerjan 23:41:31 Your mysterious weevil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 23:41:37 shachaf: just the month, for now. 23:41:54 oh, right 23:42:04 The Month of Our Lord October 23:42:12 `? password of the month 23:42:13 password of the month? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:42:19 `? password 23:42:22 The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 23:42:27 PRAY THAT I DON'T MAKE IT A RED ONE 23:42:40 red? 23:42:47 a red one 23:42:53 by all means go ahead... 23:43:02 shachaf: changing it before the month starts by HackEgo's time is scow, of course. 23:43:08 agreed 23:43:14 it'll just make me even more glad that I'm filtering colors. 23:43:53 `learn The password of the month is johansen 23:46:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:46:28 hmm, what now? 23:46:31 `learn_append int-e Hen gillar inte färger. 23:46:35 Learned 'int-e': int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger. 23:47:19 * oerjan is pleased to have spelled that correctly before checking 23:47:42 hmm, "he does not approve of colors"? 23:47:53 or just "like"? 23:48:48 Hen kommer att spränga solen? 23:48:49 mostly the latter 23:49:09 heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem 23:49:22 `? password 23:49:24 The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 23:50:10 `cwlprits password 23:50:18 fizzie evilipse oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan gamemanj int-e oerjan int-e oerjan mroman oerjan oerjan oerjan mroman_ 23:51:22 i was not aware of the approve meaning. i have a hunch it might be archaic or very formal. any swedes who can tell? 23:51:30 What would a binary absolute value be like... 23:51:35 Is there anything even remotely like that? 23:51:42 The same as the regular one. 23:51:44 (binary as in arity, not as in base) 23:52:19 sounds unintuitive. 23:52:54 So you mean dyadic rather than monadic. 23:52:57 although if you want a real number result, that's just a "norm". 23:52:59 Yes 23:53:10 oerjan: It does, but if there's anything remotely like it it'd be nice. 23:53:44 then you would interpret the two arguments as a point in the plane. 23:54:19 euclidean norm is pretty common, and the same as complex absolute value. 23:54:26 Gonwild is a place for closed, Euclidean Geometric shapes to exchange their nth terms for karma; showing off their edges in a comfortable environment without pressure. 23:54:29 lmao 23:54:43 lmabo 23:55:34 -!- Menphis has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:56:19 I suppose it could be a sort of... relative value? a||b is the distance of a from b without sign? 23:56:32 (making |a| equal to a||0) 23:56:42 "relative" doesn't sound right though... 23:56:47 just check what apl does 23:57:25 Good point... 23:57:39 APL defines ∣B to be absolute value, and A∣B to be residue: B modulo A 23:58:07 hppavilion[1]: well that's just abs(b-a) 23:58:21 oerjan: Well yea 23:58:22 *yes 23:58:28 olsner: hellolsner. are you the Only Swede? 23:58:35 helloily 23:58:39 hellørjan. 23:58:39 It doesn't matter how trivial of a difference it is; a-b is just a+(-b) 23:58:42 ahoily 23:58:46 hppavellon[1]. 23:58:51 there's also FireFly 23:58:58 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.03.14 has context for the sun thing (13:51:25 ff.) 23:59:01 (Though whether a-b or -n came first is debatable...) 23:59:05 Firellofly. are you Both Swede? 23:59:11 oerjan: what about FireFly? 23:59:15 (I had to remind myself) 23:59:22 I think so 23:59:25 hppavilion[1]: he's doing a lot of sweding 23:59:29 Ah 23:59:34 Right 23:59:47 oerjan: how sweed of me? 23:59:57 FireFly: do you know if the "approve of" meaning of "gilla" is used in ordinary swedish?