< 1471910408 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1471910421 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a magic space beam were to hit earth and flip everybody's gender < 1471910429 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let's not question /why/ this happened) < 1471910457 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would trans people be happy about it, or would they stay trans but have their identity flipped too? < 1471910468 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so a trans woman now has the body of a woman but identifies as a man) < 1471910521 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's a question of whether the aliens that did this for whatever reason thought to flip identity too (so whether men still think of themselves as men, but are physical women) < 1471910582 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they made it set your identity to match your appearance (so men (who have become women) identify as women, women identify as men, trans women (who become women) identify as women (score), and trans men become men (and identify as such)) < 1471910672 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume people would have other things to worry about, like who's bombarding the planet with philosophical quandaries < 1471910942 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471910962 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1471910981 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run my own mailserver, and recently gmail started bouncing messages from it for a vaguely explained reason < 1471911004 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: This is a question based on questions of both what the beam is *doing*, as well as as-yet open questions of what the physical and psychological bases of "being trans" *are*... < 1471911015 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I started adding email auth features < 1471911040 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I'm messing around with dmarc, which asks mailservers who receive forged messages claiming to be from you to send you statistics about them < 1471911050 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let's assume that identity is completely disjointed from (but still correlated with) physical gender < 1471911056 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a method of determining what impact adding more anti-forgery protections would have) < 1471911093 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is your personal mailserver running a software I've heard of? < 1471911104 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got my first report today; I reported a bug in Ubuntu, and it sent email about it with my email address forged as the from address < 1471911111 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it runs a ton of software < 1471911119 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it you've probably heard of, like postfix < 1471911152 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the thing doing the mailiness? < 1471911170 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan we could simply make 9 permit anon editing and add a separate anti-anon filter; better would be to disable anon editing in the settings < 1471911170 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1471911174 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Shit gets complicated, because physical sex is not just one phenotype that you can flip, and for some trans people that may well be super obvious and relevant. < 1471911177 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or find some way to allow anons to edit in less spamy times) < 1471911192 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: a bunch of different programs are involved in saving and receiving emails < 1471911204 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of Postfix; I use Exim since it has the features I require. < 1471911223 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hm, hermaphrodit...edness is a matter of your body developing incorrectly (or awesomely, if that's what the reader is into), not anything genetic, right?) < 1471911235 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Complicated. < 1471911241 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which featuers do you use that postfix doesn't have? < 1471911245 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course it is < 1471911258 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Heirloom-Mailx as the front-end; it has the built-in ability to forge a from address easily (another feature I need, due to the way I have aliases set up) < 1471911287 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most mail clients can forge a from address easily < 1471911296 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some cases of being intersex that can be directly triggered genetically. Hell, there's even weird cases where you can end up with an unambiguously "normal" male or female phenotype without a normally matching genotype. < 1471911299 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how many mail submission programs will forge a bounce (MailFrom) address < 1471911329 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The way I have aliases set up is one of them. I don't know if Postfix can do that, but when looking at the possibilities I have found that Exim does support it so I used that. < 1471911370 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1471911370 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1471911379 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have set it up so that it only receives messages send to aliases; not messages sent to UNIX usernames.) < 1471911411 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have XX cis men and XY cis women. Both of these are *really* rare, but well-documented phenomena. < 1471911425 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: chimerism, perhaps? < 1471911428 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O, I did not know such thing would be possible < 1471911472 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You actually can send to a UNIX username if you connect directly to my SMTP server and do not use the local domain name instead of the internet domain name, but you shouldn't need to do that.) < 1471911490 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, in the XX case the father's gametes had a recombination with the X and Y chromosomes and the SRY gene landed on the X; for XY, SRY gets mutated or deleted such that it doesn't work. < 1471911530 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SRY is the major gene that triggers the masculinization of a fetus. < 1471911551 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :any cases of intersex that are fertile? < 1471911553 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can such people have children? If so, how are their children affected? < 1471911555 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the next mystery is, why canonical.com does not have an SPF record set up < 1471911573 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, with the XY case *some* of the other genes doing that may still be around, so you get an incompletely masculinized human instead) < 1471911578 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does a SPF record mean? < 1471911639 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's something that you put in your DNS for a domain, that sets out the conditions on which an email connection with a HELO or MAIL FROM on that domain is legitimate < 1471911654 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1471911656 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: To my knowledge, not all mechanisms result in infertility, but many of them do. < 1471911660 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. actually comes from that domain) < 1471911699 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one common one is to state "an email will only legitimately have this domain in its MAIL FROM or HELO if the connection is being made from the IP in the domain's A record" < 1471911707 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The major relevant question here is if the ovaries or testicles are able to correctly form, and if so, if they're able to produce functioning gametes. < 1471911741 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is so that you can authenticate the server that relays the message as actually being the server that relays the message, rather than a fake < 1471911761 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my case I am actually sending from the domain that the MAIL FROM is, but then the ISP will forward the message to the correct SMTP server, so it will also be legitimate if the ISP is forwarding it for me. < 1471911779 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : In what kind of case are the gametes functional? < 1471911780 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, biology is stupidly complicated. < 1471911783 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very easy to set up and makes anti-spamming technologies work much more effectively as it allows them to gain trust in a relay < 1471911793 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well SPF is entirely about HELO and MAIL FROM, it says nothing about the From: line < 1471911803 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ISP relay will change the MAIL FROM I think? < 1471911816 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to its own address < 1471911834 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the ISP will change the MAIL FROM to its own address. < 1471911937 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, my mail logs show the HELO but not the MAIL FROM < 1471911943 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could see if it changes the HELO, at least < 1471911948 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to see if I can turn on logging for MAIL FROM too < 1471912013 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending the message first to ISP to have them forward it to the correct server is known as "smarthost" in the Exim configuration. (If I send a message directly to an external SMTP server, I normally get an error message that says that it is "graylisted", so I don't do that.) < 1471912025 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that will work for anonymous ip, although i thought it might also be good to a separate error message if they do post logged in to the right page, but get the format wrong < 1471912042 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then you can use two separate filters for the purpose < 1471912043 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it remains to be seen if anyone actually has trouble with that. < 1471912056 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to have a < 1471912102 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It Depends. One example is persistant Müllerian duct syndrome, where normal male sexual development happens, *but* the sexual organs which develop from the Müllerian duct (fallopian tubes, uterus, internal portions of the vagina) also end up developing. < 1471912161 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so there are two ports on which emails are sent, 25 and 587 < 1471912171 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can cause infertility if that ends up effecting development, but it doesn't necessarily. < 1471912188 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a message sent on 587 is assumed to be from an email sending user to a server, that typically requires authentication < 1471912199 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 is used for relays between servers < 1471912216 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. you use 587 when sending an email to your own mailserver, then your mailserver uses 25 to send to the recipient's mailserver) < 1471912229 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, spambots normally pretend to be a mailserver, so they make a bunch of port 25 connections < 1471912240 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sending to port 25 on the ISP, although that server is not accessible from outside of the ISP's network. < 1471912251 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume most things relaying on port 25 try STARTTLS? < 1471912254 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one of the jobs of a mailserver is to retry if there's a temporary error < 1471912268 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: quite probably; 587 is also plaintext + STARTTLS < 1471912286 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... i need ideas for stuff to add to pixel dungeon < 1471912289 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if an email server receives a connection on port 25 from somewhere it's never heard of < 1471912300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it normally simulates a few errors first to see if the other side reacts like a mailserver would < 1471912308 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although there is also a port 587 server for use if someone wants to send from the ISP's mail but is connecting from a cellular network or something else) < 1471912311 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT < 1471912311 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many spambots don't bother reacting to them properly because it would slow their spamming down < 1471912314 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called greylisting < 1471912315 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPSLOCK IS STUCK < 1471912320 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT LEAST, IT'S STICKING < 1471912334 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: you're in charge of pixel dungeon? < 1471912341 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1471912355 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought if everybody forks it, i might as well do it < 1471912383 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: older mail clients use 25 for submission rather than 587, so most ISPs will treat 25 like 587 if the message comes with appropriate auth (in this case, from being sent from inside their subnet) < 1471912394 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i buffed the blacksmith so far < 1471912396 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1471912412 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder if there's a way to disable capslock entirely...) < 1471912449 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I rebound my capslock to Compose < 1471912460 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back I rebound shift-shift to capslock, so I'd still have an easy way to type in allcaps < 1471912461 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oooh, that might work < 1471912461 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: If you can change that keybinding then yes < 1471912464 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't come up that often < 1471912471 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can now foege weapon/armor + potion to give it an enchantment or inscription you desire < 1471912472 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shift-shift binding stopped working at some point < 1471912493 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can change keybindings, but I think the official Microsoft keybinding maker doesn't let you rebind capslock < 1471912508 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can only rebind character keys- letters, punctuation, symbols, numbers) < 1471912529 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter/shift/ctrl/alt/caps/tab are all unrebindable < 1471912538 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also can dio weapons into potions now < 1471912540 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Yes, I have seen the keyboard layout making program for Windows and it does not allow rebinding capslock; many other keys also can't be rebound, including all number pad keys except for the . key < 1471912557 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes < 1471912572 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know if it's because Windows doesn't let you change those or because Microsoft thinks you shouldn't < 1471912592 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I use Linux which you can rebind everything (at least in X, I think) < 1471912643 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hate the manufacturer mentality of "a normal user probably won't want to do this thing that is potentially useful, so we can just make it impossible to ever do it no matter how smart you are without switching software or rewriting part of the OS") < 1471912714 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also hate that stuff < 1471912748 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one thing why FOSS is better, and why UNIX is better. < 1471912756 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a limit on what you can do with combinating accents on win32? < 1471912905 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the win32 keyboard stuff is for doing all the italian/croatian/thai/etc keyboards, not doing fancy stuff like mapping ctrl to tab and tab to caps < 1471913002 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had caps bound to Esc/Ctrl for as long as I can remember < 1471913068 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I also don't mess about with keymaps, I just reprogram my keyboard. < 1471913105 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok if you want to emulate the space cadet lisp machine keyboard in windows, you'll be disappointed yet < 1471913148 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have enough keys to do that < 1471913160 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: how often do you change between Esc and Ctrl? < 1471913161 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I got an Ergodox or something < 1471913164 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it do both? < 1471913170 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does both < 1471913176 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold for Ctrl, tap for Esc < 1471913181 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a vision of a key in caps lock position that does ctrl if you hold it while pressing another key, and esc if you tap it < 1471913182 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1471913186 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same idea < 1471913200 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often is Esc used these days? < 1471913211 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use a modal editor, a lot < 1471913222 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be used a ton but I think it's mostly out of use now < 1471913259 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471913275 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess technically it's not really a Caps Lock, it's just a key that I programmed to do that which is coincidentally in the same spot. < 1471913298 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I have used software on occasion to get the same effect on built-in boards < 1471913305 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: the joke is that you bind caps lock to ctrl if you use emacs and esc if you use vim < 1471913320 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: almost all keyboards have "caps lock" printed on that key though < 1471913327 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I used Evil, so I do both :D < 1471913338 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because although many #esoteric denizens are the sort to rebind keyboards, fewer of them change the physical keycaps < 1471913339 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally just use Ctrl+[ for escape in vim though < 1471913354 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer from my last job had an azerty keyboard < 1471913363 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it was set to English layout, sometimes to French layout < 1471913369 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but how often do you pay attention to Caps Lock? :D < 1471913379 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mostly I just typed in English but with French keycaps < 1471913379 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :azerty is crazy < 1471913392 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think of it as a more convenient Ctrl, and now I get weirded out when I use other people's computers < 1471913402 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift to type numbers? wut? < 1471913458 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember using a computer that had both caps lock and shift lock < 1471913460 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, an AZERTY keyboard would drive me crazy, even set to an English layout. < 1471913466 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why you'd use a shift lock < 1471913492 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one annoying thing is that with caps lock on, holding shift didn't let you type in lowercase < 1471913504 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was annoying because I was using a programming language which required all keywords to be uppercase < 1471913509 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of dressing baby boys in one color and girls in another < 1471913509 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/a/uei6y < 1471913516 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this mostly just lead to everything being uppercase as mixing case was too tedious) < 1471913521 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm used to not just a QWERTY keyboard, I'm used to ANSI mechanical layout QWERTY keyboards. < 1471913525 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: If you think shift to type numbers is weird, that's my layout above < 1471913531 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should use a 27-color system < 1471913544 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :While that AZERTY keyboard, just like a standard UK QWERTY keyboard, would be an ISO mechanical layout keyboard. < 1471913545 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^3 colors (3 categories, 3 options) < 1471913560 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One category is gender (boy, girl, other) < 1471913567 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: red on grey makes it quite hard to read, and reverse video doesn't help < 1471913577 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Or we could stop ascribing meaning to random colors < 1471913603 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is morality (good, evil, neutral) < 1471913603 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : is that the one with the straight enter key rather than the flipped L shape? < 1471913615 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do you get at the alternative combinations? holding modifier keys, or are there seven keyboards next to each other? < 1471913615 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might have a link to the layout editor. Hang on < 1471913620 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yes, that's the ANSI layout. < 1471913642 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one is the order (lawful, neutral, chaotic) < 1471913642 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The red keys are held down to get to specific layers, and some of them are modal < 1471913673 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The layout on the top right is a "dead" layer. I hit what's basically comma to get to numbers and special symbols < 1471913686 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the qwerty and steno layouts have their own switches < 1471913713 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2b875f7d5d76fe4408c0a5b3bd76ddae < 1471913720 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you want to mess with colors < 1471913791 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@2a00:f41:386f:4d82:de85:deff:fe55:967a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471913809 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharia Lawful Good? < 1471913828 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Better yet, here's black on white: < 1471913828 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@_backcolor=%23292727&name=Workman%20Dead%20Planck%20with%20KWM%20and%20Plover&author=Jack%20Henahan&switchMount=cherry&pcb:true%3B&@_c=%23ffffff&a:7%3B&=Tab&=Q&=D&=R&=W&=B&=J&=F&=U&=P&=%2F%3B&=Back%20space&_x:0.5%3B&=&=%25&=%2F&&=%3F&=+&=%2F@&=$&=%2F_&=%5B&=%5D&=!&=%3B&@=Esc&=A&=S&=H&=T&=G&=Y&=N&=E&=O&=I&='&_x:0.5%3B&=&=%2F%2F&=(&=%2F=&=0&=%7B&=%7D&=1&=*&=) < 1471913834 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&=-&='%3B&@=Shift&=Z&=X&=M&=C&=V&=K&=L&=Dead&=.&=%2F%2F&=Enter&_x:0.5%3B&=&=6&=7&=8&=9&=%7C&=%5C&=2&=3&=4&=5&=%3B&@=Ctrl&=RAlt&=LAlt&=⌘&=Fn&=&=&=KWM&=%2F&larr%2F%3B&=%2F&darr%2F%3B&=%2F&uarr%2F%3B&=%2F&rarr%2F%3B&_x:0.5%3B&=&=&=%3C&=~&=%60&=,&=,&=%23&=%5E&=%3E&=&=%3B&@_y:0.5%3B&=~&=!&=%2F@&=%23&=$&=%25&=%5E&=%2F&&=*&=(&=)&=Back%20space&_x:0.5%3B&=Tab&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&=Back%20space%3 < 1471913840 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :B&@=Del&=F1&=F2&=F3&=F4&=F5&=F6&=%2F_&=+&=%7B&=%7D&=%7C&_x:0.5%3B&=Esc&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%2F%3B&='%3B&@=Shift&=F7&=F8&=F9&=F10&=F11&=F12&=%7C&=±&=.&=Vol+&=Enter&_x:0.5%3B&=Shift&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=,&=.&=%2F%2F&=Enter%3B&@=Ctrl&=RAlt&=LAlt&=⌘&_c=%23b05858%3B&=Fn&_c=%23ffffff%3B&=&=&=Adjust&=⏮&=⏭&=Vol-&=⏯&_x:0.5%3B&=Ctrl&=RAlt&=LAlt&=⌘&=Fn&=&=&=KWM&=%2F&larr%2F%3B&=%2F&darr%2 < 1471913846 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :F%3B&=%2F&uarr%2F%3B&=%2F&rarr%2F%3B%3B&@_y:0.5&f:2%3B&=Reset%20KWM&=&=Toggle%20Split&=Float&=Fill%20Cont-ainer&=Full%20Screen&=Insert%20Marked&=Insert%20West&=Insert%20South&=Insert%20North&=Insert%20East&=&_x:0.5&f:3%3B&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23&=%23%3B&@_f:2%3B&=&=Mark&=Rotate&=Prefix&=Term&=BSP&=Swap%20Marked&=Swap%20West&=Swap%20South&=Swap%20North&=Swap%20East&=& < 1471913852 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1471913852 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_x:0.5&f:3%3B&=&=S&=T&=P&=H&=*&=*&=F&=P&=L&=T&=D%3B&@_f:2%3B&=Shift&=Mark%20West&=Mark%20South&=Mark%20North&=Mark%20East&=Mon-ocle&=Float&=Focus%20West&=Focus%20South&=Focus%20North&=Focus%20East&=Enter&_x:0.5&f:3%3B&=&=S&=K&=W&=R&=*&=*&=R&=B&=G&=S&=Z%3B&@_f:2%3B&=Ctrl&=RAlt&=LAlt&=⌘&=Adjust&=&=&_c=%23b05858%3B&=KWM&_c=%23ffffff%3B&=%2F&larr%2F%3B&=%2F&darr%2F%3B&=%2F&uarr%2F%3B&=%2F&rarr%2F%3B < 1471913854 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gag! < 1471913858 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&_x:0.5&f:3%3B&=Exit%20Plover&=&=&=A&=O&=&=&=E&=U&=&=&=%3B&@_y:0.5&x:6.25&f:2%3B&=&=DFU%20Mode&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=Del%3B&@_x:6.25%3B&=&=&=&=Audio%20On&=Audio%20Off&=OS%20X%20Keys&=Win%20Keys&=QWER-TY&=Work-man%20Dead&=Plover&=&=%3B&@_x:6.25%3B&=&=Voice-&=Voice+&=Music%20On&=Music%20Off&=MIDI%20On&=MIDI%20Off&=&=&=&=&=%3B&@_x:6.25%3B&=&=&=&=&_c=%23b05858%3B&=Adjust&_c=%23ffffff%3B&=&=&_c=%23b05858% < 1471913864 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3B&=Adjust&_c=%23ffffff%3B&=&=&=&= < 1471913867 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa < 1471913869 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1471913872 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/jhenahan/ef372d1b77b2214ba645a7d324609bdf < 1471913873 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you've stopped fakelagging < 1471913874 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bad < 1471913876 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There < 1471913879 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes < 1471913880 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just starting to type the commands to kick you < 1471913886 0 :moonythedwarf_!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1471913896 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not as a punishment, it's just the typical way to handle people with out-of-control clients) < 1471913905 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally understood < 1471913918 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had no idea it was going to give me that mess instead of a nice gist URL :/ < 1471913959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually fairly impressed that it managed to wordwrap it < 1471913990 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, irssi < 1471913990 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most clients would have given up trying to fit an URL that long onto IRC long ago < 1471914017 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would have typed the previous sentence sooner if I hadn't spent so long trying to figure out which indefinite article "URL" uses) < 1471914020 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto split has.... some advantages < 1471914066 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably see about altering the splitting strategy to just give up on URLs in general < 1471914082 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a useful behavior ever < 1471915096 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471915449 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1471915565 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that Andrew Topping was so reclusive as to not even have a Wikipedia page < 1471919180 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1471920551 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471920576 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471920596 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471921233 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471921684 0 :yorick_!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1471921684 0 :yorick_!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Changing host < 1471921684 0 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1471921715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471921792 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen both kind of indefinite article "URL" uses and I think it does not matter much < 1471921850 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471922730 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1471923662 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well do you think it might work in a computer program if the text of Magic: the Gathering cards is written using RDF and then is compiled into the code needed to execute? Examples might be [:counter [:target :spell]] and [:destroy [:target [:and [:not :black], :creature]]] < 1471926244 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1471931121 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471931529 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1471931905 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1471932595 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Jafet < 1471933824 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471933920 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471934409 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471934456 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1471935087 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471935110 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471935382 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/talks/QuicksortIsOptimal.pdf in the examples, are the arrays 1-indexed? < 1471936102 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unimpressed by O(n^2) worst case behavior < 1471936155 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in his example in page 9, k is not declared < 1471936214 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it is possible to devise a variant of quicksort with O(n log n) behavior... < 1471936608 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1471937191 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unimpressed by pdf pages being sideways < 1471937227 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can make O(nlogn) guaranteed quicksort with the right pivot choosing algorithm, but it has worse constant factors < 1471937255 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even quicksort at that point? sounds more like a cheap ripoff < 1471937257 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :quacksort < 1471937262 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people don't have all their ducks in a row < 1471937280 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but you can also know if you're in a pathological case and switch pivot choosing algorithms appropriately. :) < 1471937312 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just aiming for the pun there < 1471937343 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell i'm not serious because the sentence isn't capitalized < 1471937359 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if this actually performs well, I've just thought of it, not tested it) < 1471937413 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_of_medians < 1471937434 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm aware. < 1471937439 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also choose random pivots, which will hit O(n^2) behaviour if you're really, really unlucky < 1471937449 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But otherwise will be faster < 1471937468 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I'm not sure of is if quicksort-and-use-median-of-medians-when-you're-in-worst-case-behavior-land is actually worth it. < 1471937476 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really really unlucky would involve an adversary that knows the state of your random number generator, essentially < 1471937492 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Random pivots are faster < 1471937507 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1471937518 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tempting, use a CSPRNG for qsort. :) < 1471937545 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*cough*arc4random or get out) < 1471937626 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc4random? < 1471937671 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BSD API for a CSPRNG that's nice, quick, and easy, and glibc really should have it. < 1471937722 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the argument that userspace CSPRNGs are rarely justified compared to just using urandom. < 1471937881 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the rather bigger argument that having CSPRNGs be hard to use means nobody uses 'em, and instead implements their own, shit implementation that often doesn't even work correctly. < 1471937887 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define arc4random() random() < 1471937897 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1471938162 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable244.148-20-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda! < 1471940402 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471941140 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1471941164 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471941273 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1471941735 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1471942001 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471942096 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471942413 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1471942922 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the new card is Spy Kit < 1471942944 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and it's not really as powerful as the un-card, because the un-card works anywhere, this only on the battlefield < 1471942948 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1471943012 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1471943114 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I've got a friend planning a spy kit deck < 1471943163 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi seconds ~ 1 nanocentury < 1471943260 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes I have seen that, and my question (still not answered) is, which layer does the name-changing effect apply? < 1471943354 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my own collection of custom cards I have added the name-changing layer directly after the text-changing layer; I have done this far before Spy Kit card was revealed.) < 1471943504 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notes do not seem to answer that question, although they do answer the other questions I had (about monarch and about the new keyword actions and keyword abilities), as well as a lot of questions that I did not have because existing rules explain it clearly enough. < 1471943643 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:b008:a162:5360:cf50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471943712 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does recaptcha ask me to copy and paste a random string that's valid for 2 minutes? < 1471943718 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what security does it add? < 1471943728 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots can't copy and paste? o.O < 1471943824 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It adds security against XSS I think? < 1471944095 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which layer => we'll probably find that out from the set FAQ only. there are usually some rules questions open until that < 1471944175 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my guess is that it applies later than ability changes and earlier than p/t changes, but it rarely matters. < 1471944389 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Arcane Savant also needs a new rule in the comp rules, near the Leyline rules, to clarify how it works and whether you get to reapply it for each mulligan. The set FAQ will clear that up too. < 1471945137 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and I'm not even sure what the Spy Kit ability means in the sense of what names it chooses, eg. whether it takes only the names of cards not banned in the current format, but it probably also doesn't matter. < 1471945158 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/also// < 1471945728 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume meaning cards legal in the current format (which seem the most logical way to me), but I am not sure??? < 1471945910 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471945922 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471945969 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it seems it probably doesn't matter, because Spy Kit is legal only in eternal formats (vintage, legacy, commander), and it seems there are no silver-bordered or banned creature cards for those formats whose name is a type combination or the name of a token. < 1471946203 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, there can also be custom formats (which might or might not include unofficial cards, as well as other arbitrary selections of official cards)? For these reason, and also I don't like that names of implicitly named tokens can compare equal to card names, so I have written some of my own rules. < 1471946331 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own (unofficial) rules specify that the name of an implicitly named token is a (possibly empty) (unordered) set of subtypes, rather than a "canonical name" which is the name of a card or explicitly named token. < 1471946341 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, these rule seem more sense mathematically. < 1471946384 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So the possibility that a card name and subtype may be spelled the same way in English is irrelevant.) < 1471946385 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: about named tokens, if I have a Llanowar Mentor in play and artificially evolve it to replace Elf to Viashino in its text, then what token will it put into play? do you dislike that kind of named token too? < 1471946450 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still named Llanowar Elves, since that is an explicit name and not a subtype. < 1471946464 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the subtype of the token will now be Viashino Druid. < 1471946490 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, and the Mentor itself will also be a Viashino Spellshaper < 1471946497 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1471946604 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the token will have the same name as the card "Llanowar Elves". I believe all of these things are the same both in official and unofficial rules though, anyways.) < 1471946677 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure how it works officially. artificial evolution still has to act on plurals like "Elves" so as to work on cards like Wirewood Pride correctly < 1471946711 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably still doesn't act on the "named Llanowar Elves" part < 1471946755 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the word "Elves" in the text there is still not a subtype so it still doesn't act on it. But, if it says "Elves" where it is the plural of a subtype, then I would think it is still the same word; the way you write it in any language should be irrelevant. < 1471946862 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but in the official rules how the card name is written in English still matters for cards like Giant Slug or Viashino Skeleton or Elder Druid, sadly < 1471946897 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that is too bad it is why I made better rules for unofficial. Hopefully they can fix the official rules too < 1471946908 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check what your exact fix is < 1471946999 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is exactly what I wrote above, although I give more examples in my file < 1471947129 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if I understand right, then in your rules, (1) tokens that are given a name only implicitly from its subtype has a name that never compares equal to a name that's given explicitly or copied from a card name; and text-changing effects like Artificial Evolution don't change card names, whether they're on the card name line or mentioned in the rule text as a card name. is that right? < 1471947202 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although with my rule also Artificial Evolution does change subtypes listed on the card name line (although only tokens can ever have subtypes on the card name line). < 1471947257 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok < 1471947301 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if a name is the empty set of subtypes, that is not the same as having no name at all. < 1471947329 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you ever have a name that's the empty set of subtypes? < 1471947333 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's ever possible < 1471947373 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if with official cards, but with unofficial cards it seem that it clearly should be. < 1471947595 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and also, both in the official rules and your rules, if you change color words (eg. with Spectral Shift or Sleight of Mind), that doesn't change color words that happen to be in a card name (whether it's on a name line or rules text) < 1471947633 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that part is the same, too. < 1471947704 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have updated my file to write the rule better, since it previously did not actually explain much. < 1471947772 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a named counter that has a name that has a subtype or color word in it, but probably no. < 1471947840 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, but even if it is, it is not a subtype word or color word, I think. < 1471948004 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to get a name of all named counters, with "counter" meaning two things < 1471948060 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did find a list once somewhere, although I think they ought to add it to the Comprehensive Rules too for reference < 1471948306 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my variant rule for implicit names of tokens? Do you know who else like it or hate it? < 1471948446 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's "mine counter" technically, and "Mine" is a land type, but that doesn't come up in rules problems, because the text-changing effects only work with basic-land-types, and the cards like Shimmer and Traveler's Cloak don't interact with the counter name in any way. < 1471948459 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1471948467 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vision Charm lets you change text from land types < 1471948478 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if "mine counter" isn't capitalized anyways, then it doesn't suggest a subtype. < 1471948513 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, probably < 1471948537 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Vision Charm doesn't let me change Mine Layer to use swamp counters instead of mine counters < 1471948978 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did make the unofficial card to change counter names in text. You can't change "+1/+1 counter" into anything else, but you can change "experience counter" into "poison counter". < 1471949089 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Counter_(marker)/List_of_Counters might be useful < 1471949233 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is what I have seen before. < 1471949355 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471949494 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the lists -- "Orgg", what the heck is that? apparently some crazy old goblins. maybe it's what they call the Uruk-Hai. < 1471949592 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pest" -- apparently a card from Mirrodin makes Pest tokens < 1471949717 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. 0/1... I guess they can grow by other effects and become more than a nuisance < 1471949785 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there are also Prism creature tokens from an old card, Reflection creature tokens from two old cards < 1471949829 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the famous Sand creature tokens < 1471949871 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually two cards put Sand creature tokens into play < 1471950025 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, now for the counter list. There are gold counters (and tokens *named* Gold, which is irrelevant), currency counters, and credit counters. (Also arrow counters and arrowhead counters.) < 1471950224 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are devotion counters and echo counters which have no relation to those keywords. There are level counters and experience counters, and they're not the same. < 1471950246 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are fungus counter and different Fungus creatures < 1471950278 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( exparation counters ) < 1471950308 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITIM exasperation < 1471950430 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the Fungus creatures have Thallid or Pallid or Thelon in their name, they use spore counters to produce Saprolings. Whereas some Fungus creatures and an instant have Spor- in their name and put fungus counters on a permanent. Not confusing at all. < 1471950552 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh well, it's not really much worse than some of the strangely named recently printed cards.) < 1471950576 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of these counters have strange names. < 1471950629 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there are fate counters and omen counters. < 1471950647 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :petrification counters and paralyzation counters. < 1471950796 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are infection counters, poison counters, plague counters, but also healing counters and vitality counters. tide counters (Homarid) and time counters. < 1471950811 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :age counters too < 1471950859 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :age counters for cumulative upkeep, time counters for suspend and vanishing, fade counters for fading. < 1471950964 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That allow you to see some of the thing that can be interacted with by my "Aether Hack" card. < 1471950981 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as what cards might interact even without that. < 1471951085 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, how does Aether Hack interact with leveling cards? I don't recall how those work. < 1471952129 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471953326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1471953537 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No effect, since the text of the card does not say "level counter". < 1471953572 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, it can affect other cards to cause them to place level counters on the leveler card.) < 1471953910 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ok. So the text-changing effects don't see inside the definitions of the level up keyword (or the fear keyword)? So the keyword abilities "represent" abilities (whatever that means), don't put on text, even if the ability represented by level up is an activated ability that can be stolen by an Experiment Kraj, right? < 1471954056 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Level up is an activated ability, so I would think so. < 1471954166 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd like to say is that when the rules say that a keyword ability (possibly parametrized) represents a set of abilities, that probably means that the keyword ability adds those other abilities to the card, but that happens in the layer for abilities, not the layer for text change, so those other abilities aren't part of the card text and aren't affected by text-changing abilities, right? < 1471954307 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes those other abilities aren't part of the card text I believe, but I am not sure about the layers < 1471954631 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas there are still a LOT of things that act on text level or below: at the copy layer: (creating a token, creating copy of spell, permanent becoming a copy of or entering tb as a copy of something, Primal, planeswalker's extra ability, morph and other face-down, double-faced, meld, flip, split and fuse), at text layer: (change word in text abilities, splice onto, entwine, overload), < 1471954637 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's probably more I forgot about. < 1471954652 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complicated and I don't understand all the interactions. < 1471954769 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471954863 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am guessing that if a keyword represents two abilities, then that text causes it to have those two abilities instead of just one ability. < 1471954934 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text is not a continuous effect so the layer system does not apply, I think. < 1471954954 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, but wait, < 1471954998 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comp rules also say that "Level up is an activated ability." so maybe the Kraj or Quicksilver Elemental actually steals the level up itself too? < 1471955004 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ugly < 1471955024 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something like level up it doesn't matter if something ends up having two copies < 1471955036 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes the level up ability, but the level counters do nothing for Kraj < 1471955119 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: forget the kraj then, just have something temporarily cytoshaped to a Quicksilver Elemental, make it steal all activated abilities that way, then let the cytoshape time out, the stolen ability stays < 1471955131 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just assume that any permanent can have any activated ability stolen on it < 1471955190 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wonder how that interacts with keywords that are activated abilities or represent an activated ability (and possibly other abilities) < 1471955214 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if there's an ugly case < 1471955296 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ÆON CHICKEN < 1471955413 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can steal an "equip {1}" ability from a sword onto a knight that's not an equipment or aura or forti, and I think then you can attach the knight to an elephant you control but the attachment doesn't do anything until the knight becomes the copy of something later. < 1471955423 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really what I'm after though < 1471955522 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can activate the ability but since it is not Equipment or Aura, it doesn't do anything, unless it somehow becomes such a thing before it resolves. < 1471955545 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what, why? is there anything that says that only equipments or auras can be attached? < 1471955569 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the rules only say that creature auras can't be attached, and the same about creature equipment and creature forti. < 1471955616 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, only Aura, Equipment, Fortification can be attached to anything, and only if it is not also a creature (although I don't like this latter part and made a rule variant that discards it). < 1471955634 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1471955640 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a rule for that < 1471955655 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not? < 1471955656 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see < 1471955667 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 701.3b says (in part): If an effect tries to attach an object that isn't an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to another object or player, the effect does nothing and the first object doesn't move. < 1471955686 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,, that < 1471955689 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :701.3b < 1471955699 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then you can only attach those < 1471955703 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1471955746 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1471955773 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a permanent remain attached to something even when that permanent is no longer an aura or equipment or forti? < 1471955866 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes unattached as a state-based action (rule 704.5q). < 1471955877 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1471955882 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1471955900 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, nice < 1471955905 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that should cover all the holes < 1471956002 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think there's any keyword ability where it causes any problem with stealing all activated abilities, because there are very few keyword abilities that create activated abilities that work from the battlefield. < 1471957032 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with some help, I may be able to form custom card sets, that may have some of the new rules, new keywords (abilities/actions), new subtypes, new cards (including ones I haven't yet listed in my file), and/or reprints. < 1471957711 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:b008:a162:5360:cf50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471957717 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1471957774 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471959551 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1471960936 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471962120 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1471962132 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1471963399 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1471963565 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1471963637 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1471964672 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn how to use greasemonkey or something like that < 1471964704 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy, userscripts.org, look stuff up, change parts of code < 1471964810 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-066-188-188.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1471964874 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? minpoijjikop < 1471964875 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minpoijjikop? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1471964891 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471964905 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new filter is eerily effective, but disturbingly it's the only one matching any of the spam. < 1471965846 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: wait, you have a keyboard layout that involves that classic stenography thing layout as one of the shift states? that looks crazy < 1471965857 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading the scrollback of #esoteric... weird < 1471965927 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 after pondering why rule 3 didn't catch one of the spams, i've concluded it actually checks for at least _two_ links hth. (also one of DatCodingGuy's edits would have got caught if it only checked for one.) < 1471965927 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1471965980 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1471965982 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/abusefilter14]]4 modify10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10modified [[02Special:AbuseFilter/310]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/3/diff/prev/53]]) < 1471966407 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's long log just disappeared in a puff of magic(TG) < 1471966660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471966885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1471967197 0 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.141.175 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1471967387 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 42 < 1471967390 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42 < 1471967398 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems good enough < 1471967442 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> (b -> a) -> b < 1471967443 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1471967527 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471967529 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why is my academic account getting metaspam? < 1471967544 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Would you be interested in *Bentley Systems Users List* for your sales and marketing campaigns?" < 1471967544 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471967583 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where in this instance, "metaspam" is spam that sells addresses to spam... physically, it appears) < 1471967616 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because you're such an enterprising guy < 1471967649 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I now... why am I always the last person to learn about these things. < 1471967673 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should turn lambdabot into a profitable business < 1471967680 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1471967697 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could add a dow jones plugin < 1471967722 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar MSFT < 1471967727 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No result. < 1471967756 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :("all four letter acronyms look the same to me"... wasn't there an xkcd with approximately that title?) < 1471967790 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember < 1471967830 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wasn't that all series of seven? < 1471967888 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, you're good! < 1471967904 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: xkcd 1417 and 1554 < 1471967910 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I meant. < 1471967919 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, https://xkcd.com/1460/ is relevant to this channel. < 1471968037 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to explainxkcd for two of those < 1471968039 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :has randall ever turned up here? < 1471968047 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to my knowledge < 1471968079 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar NSFW < 1471968079 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No result. < 1471968083 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1471968084 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 231450Z 08004KT 030V150 9999 FEW070 26/13 Q1026 NOSIG < 1471968091 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not on #esoteric I believe, but I think he was on irc at some point... or not? I dunno < 1471968103 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surprisingly pleasant... I guess it's the low humidity) < 1471968180 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1471968181 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 231450Z 26004KT 9999 BKN035 16/10 Q1025 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 31003KT < 1471968640 0 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1471968641 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1471968648 0 :int-e_!?@? NICK :int-e < 1471968979 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think i ever realized until looking at that just now that smfw is "see my face when" < 1471969355 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I wonder how many PhD theses will arise out of the The DAO debacle and subsequent Ethereum fork... this must be fascinating to study in detail. < 1471969430 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from an economic and sociological perspective; technically I think it's comparatively boring, though apparently since the two chains are quite similar there are now replay attacks using transactions intended on one chain on the other) < 1471969682 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/aqsort.c 3. Partitioning is a contiguous phase of n-O(1) comparisons, all against the same pivot value. < 1471969689 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this requirement mean? < 1471969800 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you select a single pivot to partition the list into two parts, rather than, say, pick 4 pivots to partition the list into 4 parts in a single pass. (that would not be very quicksort-ish) < 1471969859 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps one could dynamically change the pivot while partitioning (keeping track of the minimum of the larger part and the maximum of the lower part along with the currently selected pivot) < 1471970275 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. Conspiracy: Take the Crown is not even in http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/products/card-set-archive . They usually put sets there much before they're released. < 1471970289 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how would that book keeping help? < 1471970314 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong. zzo38: release notes (setfaq) for Conspiracy 2 is out: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/conspiracy-take-crown-release-notes-2016-08-22 < 1471970331 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1471970384 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1471970423 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: it would help defeat awsort because it assumes that there are long runs of comparisons involving the same key < 1471970430 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aqsort < 1471970450 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1471970452 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1471971129 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471971150 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471971557 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retro chess problem, to figure out the last few moves: 2QRNbqr/pk1pBppp/RppKp3/P2N4/8/7P/2P1P1P1/5B2 < 1471971648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1471971816 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1471972001 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : (from an economic and sociological perspective; technically I think it's comparatively boring, though apparently since the two chains are quite similar there are now replay attacks using transactions intended on one chain on the other) < 1471972005 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were intentionally forking < 1471972021 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you make the fork have a different hash algorithm or something? < 1471972036 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or otherwise make it different enough) < 1471972178 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, < 1471972194 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we could have a different "style" of BFJoust hills? < 1471972227 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monthly tournaments where competitors may be secretly submitted, and are revealed only at the end when the whole tournament is crunched. < 1471972254 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This defuses Kiseki and similar nonsense. < 1471972298 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you could and they didn't < 1471972336 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ref: http://www.coindesk.com/rise-replay-attacks-ethereum-divide/ < 1471972368 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh kiseki is not actually a real problem. the problem is when you run your program enough times to push everything else off the hill, which is a jerk move < 1471972442 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :One instance of the proof of concept, then normal programs? < 1471972453 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scoring algorithm does converge onto 100-0 for everything else if something maintains a 100% win rate. < 1471972455 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... there's that. < 1471972472 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do think it would be neat to have a micro hill. one that you tweet at, and the entire program is contained in the tweet < 1471972531 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: one of the scoring algorithms does. its an issue i brought up when proposing it. < 1471972547 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are others selectable from the scores page < 1471972722 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471972751 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471972952 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d03:c800:1cf5:b0d3:47da:35c JOIN :#esoteric < 1471972965 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-atioazceptfbxweq QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471973138 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-gcsbdpqpzzlypkwx JOIN :#esoteric < 1471973507 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1471973804 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471974187 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello < 1471974238 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, zzo38: for the M:tG set "Conspiracy: Take the Crown", comprehensive rules update and release notes (setfaq) are out now, see http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/conspiracy-take-crown-release-notes-2016-08-22 and http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/comprehensiverules < 1471974290 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the strangest part to me is the artifact card Spy Kit, which is a less general version of an un-card. < 1471974299 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523 < 1471974330 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not really, _____ affected itself, spy kit affects other things < 1471974332 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia < 1471974334 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i ever ask you how you got credit for an integral in the brain age tas? < 1471974362 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: spy kit is weaker because it only affects permanents, whereas the unnamed card works in any zone < 1471974372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1471974386 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I don't think so, but it's fairly simple < 1471974402 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wanted a "really complex equation" to work as the answer to one of the questions < 1471974405 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knew I was good at maths < 1471974420 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it'd make more sense to do something that looked hard than actually was hard < 1471974431 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for extra fun, I made it a joke equation < 1471974475 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went by too fast to get the joke. how did "they" know you? < 1471974500 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwangoAC (the person who was presenting/commentating) and I have been working together on a TAS for years now < 1471974510 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that the unnamed card affects only itself barely matters if you're interested only in rules complications. you can use cytoshape to quicksliver elemental to add the unnamed card's ability to almost any permanent, except possibly an aura. < 1471974515 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I was expecting some people to screenshot/rewind to look at it) < 1471974518 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like the degree of x in the polynomial (a-x)(b-x)...(z-x)? < 1471974542 0 :FireFly!~firefly@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you definitely have to pause to read it < 1471974544 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well there are things like placing spy kit on a "note this information during the draft" card < 1471974556 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't do anything but only because a rule was specifically added to prevent it doing anything < 1471974562 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a TAS of what? < 1471974564 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack < 1471974571 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I remmeber that one. was that one of the definite integrals that reduce to an integral of an odd function on an integral symmetric around zero? < 1471974592 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: actually the function in question's a constant < 1471974595 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone mentioned another of those definite integrals recently < 1471974597 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1471974635 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's why spy kit is *weaker*. it only changes names of permanents. < 1471974641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a) it's disguised behind a couple of trig identities, b) one half is easier to solve the definite integral of than another so most people who've tried to solve it haven't realised it's a constant function < 1471974668 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but spy kit is an easy way to get an unusual name combined with an unusual ability < 1471974673 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put it on experiment kraj, for example < 1471974681 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_____ only has abilities if you cytoshape it or the like < 1471974708 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or if you steal the ability from the unnamed card with a quicksilver elemental (or experiment kraj) < 1471974722 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: spy kit might be easier to use in practice < 1471974740 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you allow un-cards, there's also the spy kit + wordmail combo < 1471974747 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying the unnamed card lets you do more rules breakage if you are willing to consider scenareos unrealistic in a game because they require ten card combos < 1471974752 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone's worked out quite how much of a stat boost that gives yet, but it's a lot < 1471974775 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hehe < 1471974787 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also spy kit + magnetic theft + eradicate is a stupid combo that's got a lot of love on Reddit < 1471974794 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that with _____ < 1471974833 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in http://www.komal.hu/forum/forum.cgi?a=to&tid=7&tc=4021 post [4006] is the definite integral that reduces to an integral of an odd function around a central interval < 1471974838 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus some other term) < 1471974875 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yes, magnetic theft. that would be crazy < 1471974904 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took people a while to figure out the magnetic theft trick, they were trying to do something with harmless offering before < 1471974978 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 612.6 says it count as a text-changing effect. < 1471975039 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Crumble to Dust could also work, but hard to pull off, you have to animate a land an opponent controls first, such as with Wind Zendikon. < 1471975044 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the joke just that you used trig functions to represent x^2/4 < 1471975044 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1471975046 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't work < 1471975053 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, um < 1471975062 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the trig functions entirely cancel each other out < 1471975069 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a few of the more obscure trig identities < 1471975076 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can, but it also needs Magnetic Theft or some such thing < 1471975081 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you won't find them directly in most trig identity lists, you have to rearrange the equation somewhat first) < 1471975189 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Dichotomancy < 1471975202 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dichotomancy should work against a spy kit < 1471975237 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471975251 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! Exclusion Ritual works with the Spy Kit on your own bear < 1471975259 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bear/squire/ < 1471975269 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1471975270 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1471975272 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't < 1471975273 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i solved the integral by hand and notice they cancel but i dont understand why < 1471975275 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471975275 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ignore me, I'm stupid < 1471975300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's the effect I was going for < 1471975358 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok < 1471975429 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nvm i get it. i was ebtering it into desmos wrong < 1471975440 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is desmos? < 1471975452 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have more than four of the unnamed card in a deck if you change its name to different things before the match starts? In fact, can you have the unnamed card in your deck for a Standard constructed tournament if you change its name to Forest before the match starts? < 1471975472 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was wondering about that < 1471975485 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the answer would be yes if you could somehow generate {2} during deck construction < 1471975497 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I should look that up in maro's old un-faq < 1471975545 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ask-wizards-june-2007-2007-06-01 < 1471975597 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, not that article < 1471975708 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno then < 1471975741 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also < 1471975790 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would have taken less space to do int_blah^(blah+8) 2cos^2(blah*x/2)-cos(blah*x). is the factor of 1/2 just to make it uglier? < 1471975868 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: pretty much < 1471975874 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/conspiracy-take-the-crown/27511-spy-kit ... mm, the oracle text has a typo, but is it in any way official? < 1471976432 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's no oracle text released yet < 1471976449 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's not an official oracle text, it's just a text typed from some preview photos for that site < 1471976491 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you'll have oracle text when it appears in Gatherer, although it will probably be the same text as appears in the release notes http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/conspiracy-take-crown-release-notes-2016-08-22 < 1471978565 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1471978848 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1471979497 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.214.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471980759 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1471981716 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471981825 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1471982330 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471983198 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471983465 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1471983716 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1471984227 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471984568 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1471984638 0 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471984806 0 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1471985632 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1471985892 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471986038 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471986357 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471986390 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471987060 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1471987731 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1471987786 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471987793 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1471988928 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1471989022 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar < 1471989230 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d03:c800:1cf5:b0d3:47da:35c QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1471989238 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1471989280 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1471989461 0 :carado!~carado@37.174.222.23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471989513 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-89.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1471990761 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1471990951 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1471992248 0 :moonythedwarf_!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1471992287 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1471993964 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471993979 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471994420 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1471994599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know much about crypto? < 1471994624 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Helloover. I do, somewhat? < 1471994644 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. do you crypto, bro? < 1471994683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get a sense of what https://github.com/PhantomHoover/trepan/blob/master/machine.js#L2044 is trying to do? < 1471994714 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/block14]]4 block10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10blocked [[02User:175.44.4.16310]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): persistent spammer < 1471994840 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: looks like it extracts a 128 bit fingerprint or IV from a 32 bit number. < 1471994882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be 32-bit i don't think... < 1471994919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :v0 through v3 are 32-bit words in a 128-bit input value < 1471995025 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1471995092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my instinct was just to treat it as a black box and find the solution to the puzzle elsewhere < 1471995112 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1471995114 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a puzzle? < 1471995118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1471995119 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily. only through putty and my browser hth < 1471995133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://skullcode.com/ < 1471995159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll to address 6666 and overwrite the ! with a space < 1471995261 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fungot... < 1471995263 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: mr president-in-office of the council' s conclusions because we do indeed focus upon money rather than making those workers who already have difficulty making sense of all the others, i am delighted to acknowledge the fact that the council must now be content with mere rhetoric. it must stop serving mammon ciba-geigy, that is the origin of the various research agencies which are concerned with land-use planning, to avoid < 1471995270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know < 1471995288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :best i can tell it was posted on some of the chans in autumn last year < 1471995300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got linked to it on irc in like may < 1471995328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mention this because then and now i could find no evidence that anyone got any further than me < 1471995361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back then i reverse-engineered and disassembled the source and i couldn't find any way forward < 1471995385 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471995414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, the next steps are, btw: scroll up from the skull and you'll see a thought bubble from it saying '00005fe4' < 1471995466 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says 00005fe4 indeed. I am mystified. < 1471995467 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1471995476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :write that address (little-endian ofc.) where it says 'code offset' on line 00006640 and overwrite the space < 1471995485 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471995500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'frag>[!] The scoring algorithm does converge onto 100-0 for everything else if something maintains a 100% win rate. <-- pretty sure i discussed at some point how to avoid that ruining the hill < 1471995688 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.252.9.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried 0x00000000 as an offset. it freezes :D < 1471995717 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dividing into strongly connected components, essentially. although it was probably not implemented. < 1471995768 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't solve the problem of someone submitting several copies of the same program, anyway. < 1471995813 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per-user program limit? < 1471995818 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone submits more than, say, 5 programs < 1471995827 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bump the lowest scoring program that they've submitted < 1471995832 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than the lowest scoring programp eriod < 1471995834 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :period* < 1471995844 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's not immune to nick changes. < 1471995856 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-120-181.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the magic numbers seem to contain digits of pi at least, the rest might be a simplification of a random hash function or something... maybe it's been broken in a way that you can generate a colliding password easily < 1471995869 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also ends the era of ais523 < 1471995870 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V < 1471995909 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, BF Joust may be broken at this point < 1471995918 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we may need to keep submissions secret, at least in the details < 1471995943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, i googled the magic numbers and they're identical to those in ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/src/security/ssh-2.0.13/lib/sshcrypt/dlfix.c < 1471995984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is probably some standard crypto function < 1471996037 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my proposal is monthly hills. < 1471996052 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through the month, people can submit programs which are kept secret until the evaluation at the end. < 1471996055 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original BF Joust used weekly competitions, IIRC < 1471996062 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so monthly competitions would make sense < 1471996066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically my fear is that, because i can't solve the puzzle by doing stuff in the editor, maybe you have to cryptanalyse it to solve it? < 1471996076 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should still probably have an instant-feedback hill for practicing on < 1471996085 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly with an unofficial rule that you shouldn't metagame on it < 1471996097 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover> that turns the screen red and writes 'keep going' above the skull, and that's as far as i've got <-- what happens if you try 61b0 + 2*(61b0-5fe4) ? < 1471996116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a joke oerjan < 1471996140 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *-2* < 1471996141 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is this meant to be a revere engineering challenge? < 1471996152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, that's how i treated it < 1471996164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but based on my success i think the answer is 'no' < 1471996171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be meant to solve it some other way < 1471996181 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it solved? < 1471996197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in any place i could find that was indexed by google < 1471996233 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, from revere engineering, what's the general nature of the puzzle? < 1471996270 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, VM < 1471996319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of the VM? it's a custom RISC-y CPU using memory-mapped IO < 1471996336 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what's being displayed on screen? < 1471996347 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So reverse engineering just gets you the VM spec, boring) < 1471996376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a hex editor looking at the machine memory < 1471996384 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : is that a joke oerjan <-- no, but i hadn't seen your googling comment < 1471996406 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1471996461 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's just the simplest interpretation of "keep going" i could think of. < 1471996482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the puzzle, as far as i can tell, is to decrypt the block of data from 60f0 to 65bf < 1471996577 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't actually looking at the puzzle, mind you < 1471996584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a breadcrumb trail of hooks in the hex editor that will decrypt a password box and fill it with a password that will then decrypt down to 61cf, which reveals the hook that turns the screen red < 1471996619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that from raking through the disassembly i'm confident that there are no more hooks in the editor left to activate after that