←2016-07-07 2016-07-08 2016-07-09→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:30:38 * oerjan notes mroman and b_jonas botching game theory in the logs
00:34:30 <\oren\> ah nothing better than a plate of hot wings and some jamaican ginger beer
00:35:32 <oerjan> okay
00:35:48 * oerjan has never had jamaican ginger beer, so cannot say.
00:36:16 <oerjan> i'm not sure i've ever had ginger beer at all. must have been back in my childhood if so.
00:36:35 <\oren\> it's like ginger ale but much spicier
00:36:47 <oerjan> i don't think have had ginger <beverage>
00:36:59 <oerjan> *i have
00:37:21 <\oren\> it's like root beer but with ginger instead of sarsparilla
00:37:33 <oerjan> i don't think i have had root beer hth
00:37:39 * oerjan grins maniackally
00:37:49 <\oren\> i you what how what
00:38:01 <oerjan> it's more likely i've had ginger beer/ale than root beer, anyhow.
00:38:06 <pikhq> Root beer is pretty much only popular in the US.
00:38:20 <pikhq> Most people elsewhere say it tastes like medicine.
00:38:39 <oerjan> in norwegian, the general word for beer and ale are the same (øl), so i wouldn't know the difference.
00:38:40 <\oren\> thats the point, it tastes like medicine
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00:40:56 <oerjan> although the english word "ale" seems to have been borrowed by brewing hipsters.
00:41:35 <pikhq> "Ginger ale" is a soft drink flavored with ginger. Ginger beer is either a soft drink flavored very strongly with ginger, or a beer made by fermenting ginger.
00:42:32 <oerjan> (i only know about brewing hipsters from the Lunch comic strip)
00:43:00 <oerjan> and from various mentions of IPA
00:43:44 <\oren\> what does the international phonetic alphabet have to do with beer?
00:43:44 <shachaf> pikhq: What happens if I don't drink anything carbonated?
00:43:58 <oerjan> \oren\: shared acronyms.
00:43:58 <shachaf> They're all three of them incompatible with me?
00:44:09 <pikhq> shachaf: Yes.
00:44:15 <\oren\> shachaf: the ginger beer I'm having isn't carbonated
00:44:21 <shachaf> No bubbles?
00:44:24 <pikhq> The brewing hipsters you refer to, are most likely using the word "ale" properly.
00:44:41 <\oren\> no, no bubbles, just a hell of a lot of ginger,
00:45:06 <pikhq> "Ale" as traditionally used is "beer brewed with a warm fermentation method".
00:45:31 <oerjan> "Ingefærøl (også kjent under det engelske navnet Ginger beer) er en øl som ble oppfunnet på 1700-tallet i England."
00:46:06 <LKoen> I don't speak Norwegian but that is definitely the first line of a wikipedia article
00:46:14 <oerjan> LKoen: correct.
00:46:46 <oerjan> it wasn't really meant to be understood, just tasted.
00:47:19 <oerjan> also, to sort of indicate that ginger beer might be what norwegians have heard of.
00:48:34 <\oren\> I sometimes make ginger beer myself
00:49:17 <\oren\> you basically mix ginger powder with hot water and stir, then chill it
00:49:26 <\oren\> and add sugar
00:51:08 <\oren\> you can also use fresh ginger but that's a lot of work
00:51:26 <oerjan> pikhq: well sure. it's just not a native norwegian word, is all.
00:51:49 <oerjan> (although it's obviously cognate to øl, which means _both_ ale and beer.)
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00:53:39 <oerjan> i am guessing what \oren\ just said would be severe trolling on an actual brewing forum.
00:53:43 <\oren\> hippavilion[1]
00:53:59 <pikhq> oerjan: Yeah.
00:54:03 <\oren\> oerjan: oh, undoubtably
00:54:08 <pikhq> I wonder why English makes the distinction.
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00:55:06 <pikhq> Actually, could be a North vs. West Germanic thing.
00:55:25 <oerjan> maybe.
00:55:45 <\oren\> i have heard that they used to serve beer hot
00:56:23 <hppavilion[1]> ack
00:56:26 <pikhq> It'd make sense for why English would have both, then. It's kinda got a handful of weird North Germanic loans strewn throughout.
00:56:27 <LKoen> cervoise
00:57:15 <oerjan> pikhq: wiktionary doesn't think it's borrowed.
00:57:33 <oerjan> to increase confusion, german Öl means oil hth
00:57:33 <shachaf> `? go
00:57:54 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia.
00:58:01 <pikhq> oerjan: Yeah, Wiktionary thinks it's entirely native.
00:58:05 <shachaf> Maybe it's a Taneb Germanic thing.
00:58:20 <LKoen> shachaf: apparently nintendo just released a game called Pokémon Go
00:58:35 <LKoen> (or just announced, whatever)
00:58:45 <pikhq> And also that Norwegian also has a cognate for "beer", "bjor". (which appears to be not at all common?)
00:58:58 <shachaf> Bring me a good brain, or Mr. Pokeylope becomes Mr. Smokeylope!
00:59:21 <pikhq> LKoen: Released.
00:59:24 <pikhq> shachaf: :)
01:00:49 <shachaf> pikhq: Did you hear they're making Psychonauts 2?
01:01:06 <pikhq> I did.
01:01:12 <oerjan> pikhq: afaik i've never heard of the norwegian bjor.
01:01:19 <shachaf> Estimated delivery Q3 2018.
01:01:24 <shachaf> So it'll probably be out by 2020?
01:01:44 <pikhq> oerjan: So it clearly is either obscure or theoretical.
01:01:46 <oerjan> icelandic seems to have both bjór and öl.
01:02:00 <oerjan> pikhq: i'd guess very dialectical
01:02:04 <pikhq> Plausible.
01:03:16 <oerjan> it's not actually in wiktionary, which just redirects to bjór
01:03:52 <shachaf> pikhq: Also they're making another Psychonauts game, exclusively for PS4 VR.
01:04:21 <shachaf> psychonauts was too good
01:05:32 <quintopia> shachaf: i paid quite a bit into the crowdfund for it
01:05:54 <quintopia> i don't remember if it was enough to get my name into it, but i was eager to see it happen
01:08:14 <pikhq> Psychonauts was good, I dunno if they're really going to make another good game though.
01:08:45 <pikhq> I've not been a fan of Double Fine's recent output.
01:08:51 <shachaf> It's been fine.
01:08:59 <shachaf> Whih isn't up to their usual standard.
01:13:01 <oerjan> is it figuring out what to do with your life day in the channel today
01:13:11 * oerjan logreading
01:14:25 <oerjan> oh never mind, int-e went on to bikeshedding.
01:15:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Maybe you can think of a good pun involving "bicyclic monoid"
01:21:40 <oerjan> sorry. only horrible half-associations.
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02:32:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: [Rated ꙮ] The intradisciplinary hub of solidarity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse (always safe, sane and consensual), and font forging (dangerous and potentially illegal) | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
02:38:02 <oerjan> `unidecode ꙮ
02:38:08 <HackEgo> ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
02:39:11 <shachaf> too much
02:39:20 <alercah> whoa
02:39:27 -!- shachaf has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidity matrices and esoteric programming language design and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
02:39:28 <alercah> google is experimenting with new crypto algorithms for https
02:39:38 <alercah> designed to be impermeable to quantum computers
02:40:02 <alercah> they picked an algorithm called new hope
02:40:14 <alercah> but the paper describing it has 0 instances of the string "death star" so I lost interest
02:40:44 <oerjan> what about "peace moon"
02:41:14 <hppavilion[1]> :(chaf
02:41:44 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's no... wait...
02:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> That's no star?
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02:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> Also, shouldn't it be "life moon"? Because !death is life; peace is !war
02:42:12 <hppavilion[1]> (then again, war is peace...)
02:42:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i conclude you don't get the reference hth
02:42:32 <hppavilion[1]> (war=x, x=-x, x=0, war=peace=0, QED)
02:42:39 <hppavilion[1]> I don't?
02:42:48 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, I see
02:45:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it is in the nature the topic to expand and collapse. just like a star.
02:45:27 <oerjan> *of the topic
02:46:56 <oerjan> alercah: it's ok then can use the name death star when they find a quantum algorithm that breaks it anyway.
02:47:00 <oerjan> *they
02:47:14 <oerjan> what in the world is wrong with my brain these days.
02:50:25 <\oren\> `? ꙮ
02:50:28 <HackEgo> ​ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
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02:53:20 <\oren\> `? 〿
02:53:21 <HackEgo> ​〿? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:54:23 <alercah> oerjan: wouldn't that have to be called "second death star"?
03:00:40 <oerjan> ER
03:01:03 <oerjan> `8ball wouldn't that have to be called "second death star"?
03:01:08 <HackEgo> Reply hazy try again.
03:01:22 <oerjan> alercah: NOT SURE
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03:23:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: You're doing it wrong
03:23:32 <oerjan> doing what wrong.
03:23:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: You aren't unsure, the 8B just didn't work the first time
03:23:47 <oerjan> `8ball what am i doing wrong?
03:23:50 <HackEgo> I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
03:24:04 <oerjan> ):
03:24:14 <hppavilion[1]> When you try to load a webpage and just get the HTML skeleton, you don't give up, you reload
03:24:24 <oerjan> FINE
03:24:28 <oerjan> `8ball wouldn't that have to be called "second death star"?
03:24:29 <HackEgo> Signs point to yes.
03:24:42 <oerjan> alercah: after some thought, i agree hth
03:33:43 <hppavilion[1]> What is the name for the type of website which http://ponycountdown.com/ is?
03:33:58 <hppavilion[1]> Not the utility side- in this case, counting down to ponies
03:34:14 <hppavilion[1]> That is, a site that is rife with secrets and easter eggs that are there to amuse a visitor
03:39:08 <hppavilion[1]> How do I explain to someone that no, I'm not texting them the password over Google Hangouts, that's not safe AND I can't delete it after
03:43:05 <oerjan> don't ask me. i don't think it's possible to explains things to someone who isn't ready for it.
03:43:12 <oerjan> *-s
03:43:17 <oerjan> DAMMIT BRAIN
03:46:20 <shachaf> not possible to explains thing
03:50:19 <\oren\> holy shit dallas
03:51:22 <JX7P> http://pastebin.com/TwfCFjxE the parable of the liberal anglosaxon capitalist professor and analytical philosopher who taught a class on bertrand russel
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03:52:03 <\oren\> in dallas two cops were shot while monitoring a protest
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04:22:59 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: are you watching the dallas thing?
04:23:11 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: What dallas thing?
04:23:21 <hppavilion[1]> `google dallas thing
04:23:30 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=%64%61%6c%6c%61%73%20%74%68%69%6e%67' \ Alert!: Unable to access document.
04:23:33 <hppavilion[1]> @google dallas thing
04:23:34 <lambdabot> https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g55711-Activities-Dallas_Texas.html
04:25:00 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: DPD officers getting shot down at a protest?
04:38:31 <\oren\> yeah, there were snipers on top of a building and they shot ten officers, three dead.
04:39:08 <pikhq> s/were/are/ possibly.
04:39:20 <pikhq> The situation remains uncertain.
04:39:24 <\oren\> right
04:39:47 <\oren\> I was watching the Clinton email fbi/senate hearing when it cut to Dallas
04:40:12 <hppavilion[1]> 1.855e+44 planck time flat
04:45:53 <alercah> oerjan: tdh
04:47:13 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: You're the master of webcomics, correct?
04:47:55 <oerjan> since when.
04:48:49 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I seem to remember someone asking if you read every webcomic on the internet
04:48:59 <oerjan> that's a pretty big no.
04:49:10 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
04:49:18 <hppavilion[1]> Well to anyone who knows
04:49:39 <hppavilion[1]> I'm reading Dinosaur Comics and looking for a complete list of easter eggs therein. Anyone know where I could find this?
04:50:00 <oerjan> wild guess: there's a wiki somewhere?
04:50:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I hope so, but I can't find it
04:50:40 * oerjan doesn't read Dinosaur Comics, although he _does_ read Dinosaur Whiteboard.
04:50:45 <hppavilion[1]> I'll look for that
04:51:04 <oerjan> (that's not a relevant suggestion btw)
04:51:58 <shachaf> Do you read Super Mega Comics?
04:52:09 <oerjan> no.
04:52:29 <Cale> Okay one-sided die, who is the number one loser?
04:52:46 <shachaf> What's a one-sided die?
04:52:48 <shachaf> A sphere?
04:53:32 <hppavilion[1]> I would think it's a deformed mobius strip
04:53:35 <ais523> either that, or a monostable polyhedron
04:53:44 <ais523> there are polyhedra that are only stable on one face
04:53:50 <ais523> and if you place them on any other, they'll roll onto the one stable face
04:54:01 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=382
04:54:27 <ais523> when used as a die, it'd always land in the same orientation around every axis but the axis of symmetry of the table
04:54:45 <oerjan> pretty sure that was linked the other day.
04:54:48 <ais523> err, the table's surface
04:54:48 <ais523> assuming the table is flat
04:55:37 <shachaf> Oh, right.
04:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> Can't find a wiki
04:55:55 * oerjan is reminded of the gömböc
04:56:12 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: sounds like an opportunity hth
04:56:23 <shachaf> you should start a startup
04:56:24 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=429
04:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> What's an enddown, anyway?
04:57:20 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCAg5_vHFmI
04:57:33 <shachaf> @google super mega double damage
04:57:35 <lambdabot> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=333
04:57:35 <lambdabot> Title: SUPER MEGA COMICS
04:58:16 <shachaf> Cale: did you kickstarter the super mega book kickstarter
04:58:29 <shachaf> it's going to be tg
04:58:49 <Cale> I didn't actually realise that it happened until it was over
05:04:14 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, Ryan North is the current author of Marvel's Squirrel Girl comic
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05:47:17 <hppavilion[1]> Let's say it's possible to build a time machine
05:47:38 <hppavilion[1]> But it can only send messages- not physical material (obviously, you can assemble something with the information in the message- but that's it)
05:48:30 <hppavilion[1]> We know how to build a receiver, but a transmitter is trickier (we lack the precision to make one work with current technology, but we may figure it out in the future)
05:48:43 <hppavilion[1]> So a scientist builds a receiver to confirm that it works
05:48:51 <hppavilion[1]> And he records the moment of activation
05:50:10 <hppavilion[1]> If, the moment he turns it on, he- dependent on the exact design- either (a) receives several thousand messages, primarily from smart middle schoolers doing a science project or (b) gets nothing because it's all jammed by abnormally high amounts of phlebon particles
05:50:13 <hppavilion[1]> We know it worked
05:50:20 <hppavilion[1]> If he doesn't get the message, we know it didn't work
05:51:57 <oerjan> what, girl genius is late
05:52:09 <oerjan> that hasn't happened in a while.
05:52:52 <oerjan> well, "late". i'm not sure what its official schedule is.
05:53:02 <oerjan> but it's usually up by now.
05:54:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: if his recording computer gets a buffer flow and suddenly contains an AI taking over the world, we also (briefly) know it worked.
05:54:12 <oerjan> *overflow
05:54:30 <hppavilion[1]> True
05:54:38 <oerjan> (just channeling some yudkowsky here)
05:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Of course, who wrote the AI?
05:54:57 <oerjan> itself hth
05:54:59 <hppavilion[1]> (obviously, nobody; the AI is part of a stable time loop and the one that arrives is likely itself)
05:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> MK/JV
05:55:33 <oerjan> wat
05:55:56 <hppavilion[1]> ?
05:56:05 <oerjan> MK/JV?
05:56:15 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, not sure
05:56:28 <hppavilion[1]> Where do you see that?
05:56:55 <oerjan> um above, in your message.
05:56:59 <hppavilion[1]> It's always nice when a WP citation leads to a 404
05:57:06 <hppavilion[1]> Better than a 451, at least
05:57:27 <oerjan> 451 THE DATA CENTRE IS ON FIRE
05:57:31 <hppavilion[1]> `? peer
05:57:47 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ALSO, ALL THE PAPER, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING TO IGNITE IT
05:57:55 <HackEgo> peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections.
05:59:30 <hppavilion[1]> Who ran the world's shortest marathon?
06:03:02 <oerjan> i dunno but iirc the question isn't quite trivial as the length wasn't entirely standardized initially.
06:03:13 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, right, crap
06:03:33 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose marathons may vary by over a femtometer in length
06:03:53 <oerjan> sounds like a pretty good assumption.
06:04:13 <hppavilion[1]> Does temperature undergo relativistic effects?
06:05:41 <oerjan> i don't know. are you reading this from some list.
06:06:41 <hppavilion[1]> Nope
06:07:09 <oerjan> i think that's a pretty subtle question, anyway. probably requiring thinking about entropy.
06:07:41 <hppavilion[1]> If thursday is the new friday, how are other days of the week affected?
06:08:40 <oerjan> obviously impossible to answer.
06:08:49 <shachaf> oerjan: Do we need a `ngglist?
06:09:00 <oerjan> what's ngg
06:09:14 <oerjan> oh
06:09:20 <oerjan> wait, why n
06:09:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: n = not
06:09:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: or no
06:09:47 <oerjan> i think that would be pretty redundant hth
06:09:51 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Presumably, ngglist notifies you when girl genius fails to come out on time
06:10:16 <shachaf> Right.
06:11:04 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( They should make special "Students' Calculators" which are awesome- you enter a full equation and it gives you the result- but it only does the math for you if it's hard enough that you shouldn't just do it yourself )
06:12:10 <hppavilion[1]> I asked wolfram|alpha for "smallest integer greater than 1"
06:12:13 <hppavilion[1]> It told me it was 1
06:12:16 <hppavilion[1]> I wept for humanity
06:12:59 <oerjan> why weep, the AIs will never destroy us when they're this stupid hth
06:19:57 <int-e> oh come on, it's just a off-by-one error
06:20:39 <int-e> and it may be a trick to make you feel better
06:22:39 <oerjan> OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
06:31:14 <int-e> punny xkcd
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06:46:16 <\oren\> 451 page censored
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07:37:47 <oerjan> gg up now.
07:38:18 <shachaf> tg
07:39:12 <hppavilion[1]> How much glory to the hypnotoad?
07:44:50 <izabera> 7
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08:12:48 <izabera> i just had the chance to write this super clear line of code printf(currformat, *argv && **argv == '\'' ? *++*argv++ : strtoll(*argv++, NULL, 10));
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08:27:10 <\oren\> izabera: perfectly clear!
08:27:52 <\oren\> parsing either a ' followed by a char literal, or a decimal number, and at the same time, advancing to the next argument
08:28:23 <izabera> :3
08:29:43 <izabera> `` printf %d \'a 72
08:29:51 <izabera> it does this
08:30:02 <HackEgo> 9772
08:32:15 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/inutility/blob/master/src/printf.c
08:32:25 <izabera> replace all your busyboxes with inutilities
08:37:06 <izabera> it compiles down to less than 40kb with -Os
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10:28:29 <izabera> did you know this?
10:28:31 <izabera> close(0) = 0
10:28:33 <izabera> open("/dev/stdin", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:29:37 <izabera> oh i'm dumb
10:29:51 <izabera> of course /dev/stdin is still there but it's a symlink to /proc/self/fd/0 which doesn't exist
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10:39:58 <b_jonas> izabera: you almost never want to close the standard handles. it can take you to bad situations when a library function very deep in your program either opens something and it gets their fd number, or a library function assumes stderr is valid and prints an error message there.
10:40:16 <izabera> okok
10:40:50 <izabera> thanks
10:40:52 <b_jonas> izabera: instead, open the new handle you want with open or socket or any other function, prepare it, then dup2 it to replace the fd of the standard handles, and then close the alias.
10:41:16 <b_jonas> that way you can reopen the standard handles to anything new.
10:41:47 <izabera> oooor... i could just add this one line check
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10:49:13 <b_jonas> oh, I forgot to do this:
10:49:29 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist 2016-07-07
10:50:09 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist 2016-07-07: b_jonas
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11:06:09 <b_jonas> also, SGDQ is great
11:09:17 <FireFly> It is.. but I'll miss part of the kirby/mario block tonight :<
11:09:28 <FireFly> Or not tonight.. later today
11:09:31 <b_jonas> you can watch later
11:09:42 * FireFly nods
11:09:57 <b_jonas> I don't watch anything live, I just watch everything later, on youtube or later if the temp encodes are botched
11:10:12 <b_jonas> like lots of the temp encodes in the early mario block were broken, so I'll have to try to watch those later
11:14:37 <FireFly> Ah
11:19:45 <b_jonas> (sadly sometimes the final videos on archive are broken too, when information was lost during recording, but they're at least better)
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12:47:01 <izabera> oh em gee https://my.fsf.org/donate/ "ThankGNU!"
12:47:21 <izabera> wat https://www.fsf.org/associate/car/
12:51:08 <FireFly> lol
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14:00:29 <mroman> http://codepad.org/nhLZ5spo this somehow bothers me
14:00:49 <mroman> 1 + 2 + 3 + ... = 1 + (1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + ... = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
14:01:07 <mroman> so sum_inf(i) == sum_inf(1)
14:01:43 <alercah> yep
14:01:46 <alercah> both are divergent
14:03:09 <int-e> mroman: 0 = (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + ... = 1 - (1 - 1) - (1 - 1) - ... = 1 <-- much quicker.
14:03:34 <mroman> but 0 = 1 is worng
14:03:36 <mroman> *wrong
14:03:37 <int-e> but the message is simply that you cannot arbitrarily manipulate infinite sums.
14:03:40 <alercah> ^
14:04:00 <mroman> if I shift S by appending a zero I don't change it's value
14:04:02 <mroman> *its
14:04:07 <int-e> (you can do it with absolutely convergent series and that's basically it)
14:04:08 <alercah> it doesn't have a value
14:04:20 <mroman> so S - S_shifted should actually be zero
14:04:24 <alercah> no
14:04:26 <mroman> even though it also equals 1+1+1
14:04:32 <alercah> because you're assuming that the sum of S is a number
14:04:34 <alercah> it's not
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14:05:14 <mroman> the guys claiming it's -1/12 surely also assume it's a number
14:05:15 <alercah> and you can't apply commutativity of addition because you're working with infinite sums
14:05:42 <alercah> mroman: the -1/12 thing is in a very specific, restricted sense though
14:05:52 <int-e> mroman: Okay, let's refute it with bogus reasoning: The partial sums of S and the shifted S are different, e.g., (1 + 2 + 3 + 4) - (0 + 1 + 2 + 3) = 4... so why would the whole sum turn out to be the same?
14:06:37 <int-e> wrong reasoning leads to unpredictable answers.
14:06:43 <alercah> ^
14:09:50 <mroman> I dunno.
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14:10:02 <mroman> but to me it makes about as much sense as assigning it -1/12
14:10:13 <alercah> mroman: ignore the -1/12 thing
14:10:20 <mroman> even though -1/12 seems to be accepted so it's probably the more correct interpretations of things
14:10:23 <mroman> I just don't know *why*
14:10:32 <int-e> the -1/12 is not accepted
14:10:48 <int-e> it's an elaborate prank
14:10:51 <alercah> the -1/12 comes from a very specific type of summation
14:11:01 <int-e> zeta function, yadayada
14:11:31 <alercah> or ramanujan summation
14:18:10 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6XTVZXww watch numberphile to learn maths
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14:59:21 <b_jonas> `random
14:59:32 <b_jonas> `? random
14:59:36 <b_jonas> `wisdom
15:01:32 <HackEgo> sgeolang//Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
15:01:32 <HackEgo> No output.
15:01:33 <HackEgo> No output.
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15:11:55 <izabera> only >2 min lag
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15:57:38 <gamemanj> the MOD format is mostly documented, and then there's the timing information, which the document I looked at was quite vague about.
15:58:53 <gamemanj> basically it revolves around a tick, and ticks occur at (BPM / 2.5)hz
15:59:35 <b_jonas> `? mod
15:59:51 <HackEgo> mod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:01:23 <gamemanj> here's the document I looked at: http://www.aes.id.au/modformat.html
16:02:24 <gamemanj> basically keep the bit I said above about tick=(BPM / 2.5)hz in mind when looking at the [15]: Set speed effect, since otherwise you'll have trouble figuring out what a "tick" actually is, even though things like slides use them
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19:16:42 <zzo38> 2600 did print my letter.
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19:27:49 <shachaf> What letter?
19:30:08 <zzo38> It says: Don't use ligature/smart-quotation-mark inside of fixpitch text! (Ligature/smart-quotation-mark should be used only on variable pitch text please)
19:30:50 <zzo38> They said I didn't add the appropriate amount of commans and periods in this request but id they they will keep an eye out for them
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19:34:26 <gamemanj> ...send a specific-use-of-characters-y letter, and you get a specific-use-of-characters-y response, I guess.
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19:59:14 <\oren\> We had problems recently with spamert quotation marks showing up in JSON
19:59:30 <\oren\> because apple are idiots
20:00:08 <\oren\> who subsitute quotes with smart quotes when you copypaste text from one window to anohter
20:00:12 <izabera> spamert -> smart ?
20:00:26 <\oren\> s/spamert/smart
20:02:45 <\oren\> essentially, somehow “ ” ended up in our code becuas eof copypasta
20:03:43 <izabera> it happens all the time in #bash ^^
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20:14:58 <zzo38> Is it possible to alter this function?
20:17:13 <wob_jonas> `free
20:17:45 <HackEgo> ​ total used free shared buffers cached \ Mem: 249752 6940 242812 0 0 3264 \ -/+ buffers/cache: 3676 246076 \ Swap: 0 0 0
20:17:46 <wob_jonas> ``` df | grep ^/
20:17:48 <HackEgo> df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
20:30:46 <wob_jonas> `perl warn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++$a;
20:30:48 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "warn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++$a;": No such file or directory
20:30:54 <wob_jonas> `perl -ewarn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++$a;
20:30:55 <HackEgo> Can't modify preincrement (++) in preincrement (++) at -e line 1, near "$a;" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
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20:46:03 <zzo38> The front cover of this issue of 2600 has a picture of a telephone dial with 11 on it.
20:46:45 <wob_jonas> zzo38: http://www.xkcd.com/670/ ?
20:46:51 <wob_jonas> or more like an xkcd phone?
20:46:58 <zzo38> Does Hotel Pennsylvania have a telephone like that?
21:13:58 <fizzie> DTMF tones go up to D.
21:14:31 <fizzie> (0..9, *, #, A..D)
21:18:29 <fizzie> (Not really their "natural" order, but even there D would be highest.)
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21:22:05 <wob_jonas> the natural order starts with 1..9, right?
21:22:17 <wob_jonas> no wait, that's pulse
21:22:19 <wob_jonas> not dtmf
21:22:39 <fizzie> Some simple natural orders would be 123A456B789C*0#D and 147*2580369#ABCD. Others could be devised.
21:22:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:23:44 <fizzie> 14275*38609AB#CD, for example.
21:23:57 <gamemanj> "simple"... "natural"...
21:24:30 <gamemanj> then again, if you look at the "natural" orders in groups of 4, it *kind of* makes sense?
21:25:06 <zzo38> I know that DTMF is like that, but the picture is a rotary dial and it goes up to eleven, instead of just ten like other telephones
21:27:03 <fizzie> gamemanj: Those three were, respectively, sorting by the low frequency as the first and the high frequency as the second key, the other way around, and by the average of the two frequencies.
21:27:25 <fizzie> (The first two are also the row-major and column-major readings of the typical keypad, for obvious reasons.)
21:27:30 <hppavilion[1]> Contrary to popular belief, wales actually is represented on the Union Jack
21:27:36 <hppavilion[1]> It's just behind all 3 other flags
21:27:45 <hppavilion[1]> So you can't see any part of it
21:27:55 <fizzie> I met a Welsh person the other night.
21:27:55 <hppavilion[1]> Because nobody cares about Wales
21:28:00 <hppavilion[1]> Seriously, fuck Wales
21:28:09 <fizzie> I think they'd disagree with the sentiment.
21:28:49 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Yes, well, they don't count, because they're welsh
21:28:52 <gamemanj> This is a call to order for anyone Welsh. Please voice your anti-hppavilion[1] sentiments, should you have any after the above comment. Sincerely, an Englishman.
21:29:40 <hppavilion[1]> (Then again, there is a fairly easy way to put Wales on the union jack- the top half remains the same, but the Scottish blue on the bottom becomes Welsh green)
21:30:02 <fizzie> One of the houses hereabouts (in London) had a sticker in the window saying something like "Proud to be Scots, Delighted to be United".
21:30:11 <fizzie> Judging from wear and tear, it predated the 'xit.
21:30:24 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Which `xit?
21:30:27 <fizzie> Bre.
21:30:29 <hppavilion[1]> brexit or... scexit?
21:30:30 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
21:30:34 <hppavilion[1]> `xit
21:30:37 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xit: not found
21:30:42 <hppavilion[1]> `brexit
21:30:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: brexit: not found
21:30:47 <gamemanj> `?brexit
21:30:47 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?brexit: not found
21:30:50 <gamemanj> `? brexit
21:30:51 <HackEgo> brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
21:30:58 <wob_jonas> heh, that changed
21:31:00 <hppavilion[1]> Wow.
21:31:03 <hppavilion[1]> That's amazing.
21:31:05 <fizzie> https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/15264219953 <- might even have been this one.
21:31:06 <wob_jonas> and it's better
21:31:10 <wob_jonas> it refers to brk
21:31:26 <hppavilion[1]> See, I want to go share that
21:31:39 <hppavilion[1]> But I reflexively went to open irc to tell the people on #esoteric that joke
21:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> Then I remembered irc is open
21:31:47 <hppavilion[1]> And I'm in #esoteric
21:33:02 <gamemanj> flip, the memory inhibitors broke again half-way through
21:33:09 <shachaf> It's an old joke anyway.
21:33:11 * gamemanj contacts the engineer who designed the things
21:33:14 <shachaf> It was on Twitter before it was here.
21:33:58 * gamemanj has new memory inhibitors fitted into hppavilion[1]
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22:05:44 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, Northern Ireland doesn't really have its own flag
22:06:51 <\oren\> `? canada
22:07:01 <HackEgo> Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
22:07:39 <\oren\> it would be nice if we had a border wall
22:07:52 <\oren\> to keep americans and their guns out
22:09:01 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
22:09:06 <HackEgo> this//this is a word
22:09:07 <wob_jonas> `random-card
22:09:11 <HackEgo> Concerted Effort \ 2WW \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of each upkeep, creatures you control gain flying until end of turn if a creature you control has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, landwalk, protection, trample, and vigilance. \ RAV-R
22:09:12 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
22:09:16 <HackEgo> whom//See: who
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22:13:57 <shachaf> `? who
22:13:59 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
22:14:12 <shachaf> `? him
22:14:13 <HackEgo> him? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:14:20 <shachaf> `le/rn him/See: he
22:14:27 <HackEgo> Learned «him»
22:14:31 <shachaf> `? he
22:14:33 <HackEgo> he? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:15:58 <wob_jonas> `? wall
22:16:01 <HackEgo> wall? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:16:22 <wob_jonas> the walls have more than just
22:17:17 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Seychelles is the buzzwordiest flag I've ever seen
22:18:41 <ais523> apparently they redesign their flag to match the logo of the ruling party
22:18:50 <ais523> so I guess they need a new flag every time a different party wins?
22:20:22 <wob_jonas> hpp: doesn't seem much more buzzwordy than the wicket gate. the wooden pillar represents nature and misticism, the perspex pillar represents the power of science, the iron pillar represents the military strength of the Empire, the golden bail represents the prosperity of the Empire, the silver bail represents I don't remember what
22:20:33 <wob_jonas> maybe wisdom knows
22:20:37 <wob_jonas> `? wikket gate
22:20:39 <HackEgo> wikket gate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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22:35:39 <wob_jonas> `? Wikkit Gate
22:35:42 <HackEgo> Wikkit Gate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:40:02 <wob_jonas> So the Steel Pillar stands for the strength and power of befunge, the Wooden Pillar for the Nature and Spirituality of brainfuck, the Perspex Pillar for the Science and Reason of underload, the Golden Bail for the Prosperity of intercal, and the Silver Bail for the Peace of unlambda, or something.
22:40:16 <fizzie> ais523: Possibly a different party never wins.
22:40:37 <ais523> fizzie: it's happened several times already, with a flag change each time
22:41:13 <wob_jonas> ais: did they change the look of the flag, or only the explanation behind it?
22:43:33 <ais523> wob_jonas: the look too
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22:45:11 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Are you trying to explain the #esoteric flag?
22:45:36 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: we have a flag? I thought we only had a secret handshake
22:45:52 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Who told you about the secret handshake?
22:45:55 <hppavilion[1]> `? blæg
22:45:56 <HackEgo> blaeg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
22:46:03 <hppavilion[1]> `culprits blæg
22:46:07 <shachaf> `cwlprits blæg
22:46:15 <wob_jonas> shachaf: nobody told me, cause <loud whisper>it's a secret
22:46:20 <shachaf> `? member
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22:46:31 <wob_jonas> hmm
22:46:36 <wob_jonas> does the flag have octarine?
22:46:40 <HackEgo> No output.
22:46:43 <HackEgo> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
22:46:45 <HackEgo> boily
22:46:45 <wob_jonas> I tried to look but I don't see it
22:47:01 <shachaf> `` rgrep member wisdom
22:47:12 <wob_jonas> but that doesn't prove anything
22:47:14 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: No, but you can mix nullary to get octarine I presume
22:47:14 <HackEgo> wisdom/me:Me is a proud member of the tEaM. \ wisdom/interpreter:An interpreter (Latin "inter-", Old French "prestre") is unofficial correspondence between ordained members of the Church. \ wisdom/member:I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to k
22:48:47 <hppavilion[1]> `? boot
22:48:49 <HackEgo> boot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:48:52 <wob_jonas> `` rgrep -l member wisdom
22:48:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/me \ wisdom/interpreter \ wisdom/member \ wisdom/oerjan \ wisdom/amortized
22:48:55 <hppavilion[1]> `? canadian
22:48:56 <HackEgo> canadian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> `? /dev/null
22:49:05 <HackEgo> No output.
22:49:07 <shachaf> Why are you all taking a break suddenly?
22:49:10 <shachaf> There's no tea in team.
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22:49:23 <hppavilion[1]> ahoily
22:49:31 <boily> hppavellon[1]!
22:49:44 <hppavilion[1]> boily: We're discussing the flag of #esoteric
22:49:51 <boily> !
22:49:54 <hppavilion[1]> (It's 4-dimensional, too)
22:50:07 <hppavilion[1]> You know, if we lived in a 4D universe, we'd revolve around the sun in a torus shape
22:50:21 <hppavilion[1]> *orbit
22:52:05 <boily> we'd revolve around an orbit?
22:52:22 <wob_jonas> fungot, are you here?
22:52:22 <fungot> wob_jonas: it's a machine that looks like you! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
22:52:33 <hppavilion[1]> fnugot
22:52:54 <wob_jonas> thanks
22:53:41 <boily> wellob_jonas!
22:53:54 <boily> whence the wobprefix?
22:53:55 <shachaf> `random-card
22:53:58 <HackEgo> Tranquil Path \ 4G \ Sorcery \ Destroy all enchantments. \ Draw a card. \ AP-C
22:54:10 <shachaf> Draw a card?!
22:54:14 <shachaf> Cantrips are the best.
22:54:21 <ais523> mass enchantment destruction doesn't normally cost 5
22:54:28 <ais523> the situation with enchantments is weird
22:54:31 <zzo38> shachaf: Not necessarily?
22:54:35 <boily> cantrips are annoyingly efficient.
22:54:36 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Isn't it just a wo prefix?
22:54:43 <ais523> normally they're relatively rarely used, and thus nobody plays cards to destroy them
22:54:49 <wob_jonas> boily: it's because this is a wob-based irc client
22:54:56 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Yes, but boily was talking about a wo bprefix.
22:54:58 <ais523> so you can normally assume that they're going to be pretty secure against destruction
22:55:03 <shachaf> Where a bprefix is a prefix for b_jonas.
22:55:08 <ais523> but cards that do destroy them tend to be crazily cheap and efficient
22:55:13 <ais523> so they only really work if nobody expects you to be using them
22:55:23 <shachaf> I guess that's what sideboards are for.
22:55:33 <shachaf> I've never played with a sideboard.
22:55:36 <boily> wob_jonas: ah, you're chitting on the wob.
22:55:41 <shachaf> Except in drafts, I guess.
22:55:42 <ais523> (right now, Dromoka's Command is a widely played card, and it happens to get rid of enchantments while being useful against non-enchantment decks, and thus enchantments are almost unplayable)
22:55:53 <ais523> what's our command for card stats?
22:55:59 <\oren\> hi i'm woll smoth!
22:56:04 <shachaf> `` ls bin/*card*
22:56:09 <HackEgo> bin/card-by-name \ bin/random-card
22:56:09 <boily> ho\\oron\!
22:56:12 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Dromoka's
22:56:14 <HackEgo> Dromoka's Command \ GW \ Instant \ Choose two -- \ · Prevent all damage target instant or sorcery spell would deal this turn. \ · Target player sacrifices an enchantment. \ · Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. \ · Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control. \ DTK-R \ \ Dromoka's Gift \ 4G \ Instant \ Bolster 4. (Choo
22:56:24 <wob_jonas> `random-card Dromoka's
22:56:26 <HackEgo> Dromoka's Gift \ 4G \ Instant \ Bolster 4. (Choose a creature with the least toughness among creatures you control and put four +1/+1 counters on it.) \ DTK-U
22:56:37 <wob_jonas> `random-card gain 10 life
22:56:39 <HackEgo> Tower of Eons \ 4 \ Artifact \ {8}, {T}: You gain 10 life. \ MRD-R
22:57:00 <shachaf> What about in -- was it Theros?
22:57:03 <wob_jonas> `random-card shuffle your.*into.*graveyard
22:57:05 <HackEgo> No card found.
22:57:05 <shachaf> With all the enchantment creatures?
22:57:13 <wob_jonas> `random-card shuffle your.*into.*library
22:57:15 <HackEgo> Green Sun's Zenith \ XG \ Sorcery \ Search your library for a green creature card with converted mana cost X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. Shuffle Green Sun's Zenith into its owner's library. \ MBS-R, V13-M
22:57:22 <shachaf> Legendary Enchantment Creature -- God
22:57:37 <ais523> shachaf: in Theros anti-enchantment cards got printed the blocks before and after instead
22:57:47 <ais523> `card-by-name erase
22:57:48 <HackEgo> Erase \ W \ Instant \ Exile target enchantment. \ UL-C, M13-C, KTK-C \ \ Erase (Not the Urza's Legacy One) \ 2W \ Instant \ If you control two or more white permanents that share an artist, you may play Erase (Not the Urza's Legacy One) without paying its mana cost. \ Remove target enchantment from the game. \ UNH-C
22:57:55 <wob_jonas> `random-card shuffle ixir(?s:.*)your.*into.*library
22:57:57 <HackEgo> No card found.
22:57:58 <ais523> M13 and KTK, see
22:58:17 <wob_jonas> ais: there's a better one than that, Quiet Purity
22:58:22 <shachaf> Did people play enchantment creatures in Theros constructed?
22:58:36 <ais523> shachaf: yes, although the fact they were enchantments was mostly irrelevant
22:58:44 <ais523> `card-by-name carven caryatid
22:58:46 <HackEgo> Carven Caryatid \ 1GG \ Creature -- Spirit \ 2/5 \ Defender (This creature can't attack.) \ When Carven Caryatid enters the battlefield, draw a card. \ RAV-U
22:58:51 <ais523> oh, hmm, I thought that was an enchantmnet
22:58:59 <wob_jonas> but there's a lot of choice in efficient enchantment destruction, I have lots of different cards for it
22:59:03 <ais523> so my first guess was wrong!
22:59:04 <shachaf> Erase is too good.
22:59:13 <shachaf> `card-by-name wear // tear
22:59:14 <HackEgo> Wear // Tear \ 1R // W \ Instant // Instant \ Destroy target artifact. \ Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.) // Destroy target enchantment. \ Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.) \ DGM-U
22:59:26 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Quiet Purity
22:59:27 <HackEgo> Quiet Purity \ W \ Instant -- Arcane \ Destroy target enchantment. \ CHK-C
22:59:31 <zzo38> `card-by-name Enchanted Evening
22:59:32 <HackEgo> Enchanted Evening \ 3(w/u)(w/u) \ Enchantment \ All permanents are enchantments in addition to their other types. \ SHM-R
22:59:42 <ais523> wear//tear is eternal playable
23:00:01 <ais523> zzo38: that card might be good if it cost 4
23:00:17 <ais523> costing 5 means it's probably not going to be good enough to make competitive decks
23:00:38 <ais523> the obvious combo is with opalescence, preventing anyone playing lands ever and destroying all those that exist
23:00:52 <wob_jonas> `random-card when.*turned face up.*destroy target.*enchantment
23:00:54 <HackEgo> Daru Sanctifier \ 3W \ Creature -- Human Cleric \ 1/4 \ Morph {1}{W} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ When Daru Sanctifier is turned face up, destroy target enchantment. \ LGN-C
23:01:00 <shachaf> `card-by-name opalescence
23:01:01 <HackEgo> Opalescence \ 2WW \ Enchantment \ Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature in addition to its other types and has base power and base toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. \ UD-R
23:01:08 <wob_jonas> what? that's not the one I was thinking of
23:01:36 <wob_jonas> `random-card G$(?s:.*)face up.*destroy target.*enchantment
23:01:38 <HackEgo> Nantuko Vigilante \ 3G \ Creature -- Insect Druid Mutant \ 3/2 \ Morph {1}{G} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ When Nantuko Vigilante is turned face up, destroy target artifact or enchantment. \ LGN-C
23:01:41 <wob_jonas> that, yes
23:01:46 <zzo38> You should add a variant of card-by-name and random-card that omits reminder text.
23:01:56 <shachaf> ais523: I guess ais523game doesn't have timestamps like mtg?
23:02:06 <wob_jonas> zzo38: feel free to just modify random-card even with that name
23:02:28 <zzo38> OK
23:02:29 <shachaf> `cat bin/random-card
23:02:31 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' -- "$1"
23:02:35 <wob_jonas> `random-card \bshadow\b(?s:.*)destroy target.*enchantment
23:02:38 <HackEgo> Soltari Visionary \ 1WW \ Creature -- Soltari Cleric \ 2/2 \ Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.) \ Whenever Soltari Visionary deals damage to a player, destroy target enchantment that player controls. \ EX-C
23:02:55 <ais523> that's a pretty strong hoser too
23:03:01 <ais523> unles sthere's a lot of shadow in the block
23:03:03 <wob_jonas> (obviously such that you don't break the history)
23:03:10 <ais523> `card-by-name trygon predator
23:03:11 <HackEgo> Trygon Predator \ 1GU \ Creature -- Beast \ 2/3 \ Flying \ Whenever Trygon Predator deals combat damage to a player, you may destroy target artifact or enchantment that player controls. \ DIS-U, MMA-U, C15-U
23:03:15 <ais523> ^ vintage playable
23:03:27 <zzo38> Searches should also ignore reminder text
23:03:39 <shachaf> But I like reminder text.
23:03:46 <shachaf> Without it I wouldn't have known what Shadow does.
23:03:47 <ais523> zzo38: not really, if you want to find all cards that gain you 1 life, you'd want to find extort cards too
23:03:57 <ais523> really, searches should find reminder text even if it isn't on the card
23:04:04 <shachaf> `random-card extort
23:04:08 <HackEgo> Pontiff of Blight \ 4BB \ Creature -- Zombie Cleric \ 2/7 \ Extort (Whenever you cast a spell, you may pay {(w/b)}. If you do, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life.) \ Other creatures you control have extort. (If a creature has multiple instances of extort, each triggers separately.) \ DGM-R, C14-R
23:04:21 <wob_jonas> zzo38: then maybe you should make a modified copy of the card database file, then modify the two commands to use that file instead of the current file
23:05:19 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, that is I suggested to do different commands. (Although, it does not necessarily have to be another copy; the program could remove reminder text at runtime instead; I don't know what is better)
23:05:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:05:59 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think another copy would be better, because we may want to add more commands, and that would make it easier
23:06:25 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes that would, but would it waste disk space?
23:06:41 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of card I made up: Untap all Horrors. Remove all marked damage from all Horrors. Remove all Horrors from combat. Remove alll counters from all Horrors. Return all permanents attached to Horrors to their owner's hand. Counter all spells and abilities that target a Horror. Counter all other Horror spells. Horrors cannot attack this turn.
23:06:42 <wob_jonas> although don't forget that we have to repeat the conversion whenever the card database is updated
23:06:54 <wob_jonas> zzo38: runtime conversion for searching would waste cpu, I think that's worse
23:07:03 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Ah, OK then.
23:07:14 <wob_jonas> `du share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:07:16 <HackEgo> 0share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:07:37 <wob_jonas> ``` du -a share/mtg
23:07:39 <HackEgo> 696share/mtg/All Sets-2016-04-08.zip \ 3048share/mtg/allsets-2016-04-08.txt \ 0share/mtg/MagicCompRules.txt \ 0share/mtg/allsets.txt \ 632share/mtg/rules.txt \ 636share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20160408.txt \ 5016share/mtg
23:07:43 <zzo38> Database update could be done as another script though possibly, which will automatically do the conversion too.
23:07:56 <wob_jonas> ah, it's a symlink
23:08:02 <wob_jonas> `ls -ld share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:08:03 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
23:08:07 <wob_jonas> ``` ls -ld share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:08:10 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 22 May 8 19:59 share/mtg/allsets.txt -> allsets-2016-04-08.txt
23:08:22 <wob_jonas> ``` du share/mtg/allsets-2016-04-08.txt
23:08:23 <HackEgo> 3048share/mtg/allsets-2016-04-08.txt
23:08:28 <wob_jonas> 3 megabytes
23:09:08 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, although we have to issue the fetch as a separate bot command, some scripts can still help
23:10:06 <zzo38> Ah, yes a script could just do the conversion I suppose independent of the fetch
23:10:23 <wob_jonas> oh hey LOOK!
23:10:29 <wob_jonas> the Eldritch Moon release notes are out
23:10:33 <wob_jonas> let me check the fuse rules
23:10:39 <zzo38> Ah, let me see too
23:10:40 <wob_jonas> they have to be crazy to make that work
23:10:44 <wob_jonas> http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/eldritch-moon-release-notes-2016-07-08
23:11:02 <zgrep> `which ``
23:11:05 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/``
23:11:09 <wob_jonas> and let's find out what Gift of Immortality on a fused creature does!
23:11:22 <wob_jonas> also, find even more broken cases
23:11:32 <wob_jonas> ais523: can you help here with the rules stuff?
23:11:33 <zgrep> `` cat $(which "``")
23:11:44 <wob_jonas> um
23:11:51 <wob_jonas> melded creature. molded. or something
23:11:52 <wob_jonas> not fused
23:12:04 <HackEgo> No output.
23:12:25 -!- augur has joined.
23:12:44 <zgrep> `cat /hackenv/bin/``
23:12:47 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
23:13:00 <zgrep> `cat /hackenv/bin/`
23:13:01 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
23:13:09 <zgrep> Huh.
23:13:19 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:14:04 * zgrep should've used ' not "
23:14:37 <ais523> wob_jonas: 712.4c says implies that the enchantment is returned enchanting "each" card, not "both" cards
23:14:54 -!- ^v has joined.
23:15:03 <ais523> so depending on the order you choose for the actions to happen in, you can make it enchant either half
23:15:03 <ais523> (if it said "both", then the enchantment would fail to return because "two creatures" doesn't match "enchant creature")
23:16:40 <zzo38> A permanent can only be attached to a single player or object as far as I know, not more than one.
23:18:08 <ais523> `card-by-name spellweaver volute
23:18:11 <HackEgo> Spellweaver Volute \ 3UU \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant instant card in a graveyard \ Whenever you cast a sorcery spell, copy the enchanted instant card. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost. If you do, exile the enchanted card and attach Spellweaver Volute to another instant card in a graveyard. \ FUT-R
23:18:16 <ais523> oh, hmm
23:18:21 <ais523> I thought there was an "enchant two cards" enchantment
23:18:38 <ais523> or "enchant instant card in a graveyard and sorcery card in a graveyard"
23:18:40 <ais523> something like that
23:18:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:19:09 <wob_jonas> ais523: no way
23:19:25 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name enchant.*card.*and.*card
23:19:27 <ais523> maybe spellweaver volute was weird enough for them
23:19:27 <HackEgo> No output.
23:19:45 <wob_jonas> ais523: I think the rules actually forbid that somewhere
23:19:48 <ais523> wob_jonas: "by-name"?
23:19:56 <wob_jonas> `random-card enchant.*card.*and.*card
23:19:58 <HackEgo> Puppet Master \ UUU \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ When enchanted creature dies, return that card to its owner's hand. If that card is returned to its owner's hand this way, you may pay {U}{U}{U}. If you do, return Puppet Master to its owner's hand. \ LE-U, CH-U
23:19:59 <wob_jonas> yes, good catch
23:20:06 <wob_jonas> `random-card ^enchant.*card.*and.*card
23:20:08 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:20:17 <wob_jonas> `random-card ^enchant.*\band\b
23:20:18 <ais523> `random-card enchant.*two
23:20:21 <HackEgo> Spectral Flight \ 1U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has flying. \ ISD-C
23:20:22 <HackEgo> Psychic Overload \ 3U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant permanent \ When Psychic Overload enters the battlefield, tap enchanted permanent. \ Enchanted permanent doesn't untap during its controller's untap step. \ Enchanted permanent has "Discard two artifact cards: Untap this permanent." \ DST-U
23:20:32 <ais523> `random-card enchant two
23:20:32 <wob_jonas> `random-card ^enchant\b.*card.*and.*card
23:20:46 <wob_jonas> `random-card ^enchant\b.*\btwo\b
23:20:52 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:20:52 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:20:53 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:21:07 <wob_jonas> seriously, I don't think the rules allow enchanting two objects or players
23:22:07 <ais523> oh, I think I was thinking of spellweaver helix
23:22:14 <ais523> but it's double imprint, not double enchant
23:22:21 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name spellweaver helix
23:22:22 <HackEgo> Spellweaver Helix \ 3 \ Artifact \ Imprint -- When Spellweaver Helix enters the battlefield, you may exile two target sorcery cards from a single graveyard. \ Whenever a player casts a card, if it has the same name as one of the cards exiled with Spellweaver Helix, you may copy the other. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cos
23:22:34 <wob_jonas> oh
23:23:55 <wob_jonas> ais523: so which card do you think interacts in rule-wise crazy ways with meld? I'm thinking especially of something that exiles a permanent and then refers to it
23:24:09 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:24:29 <ais523> what's that card that exiles a creature and makes token copies of it?
23:24:42 <wob_jonas> how does Invader Parasite behave?
23:24:46 <ais523> presumably you'd get two tokens
23:25:16 <wob_jonas> `random-card exile(?s:.+\n.*)token copy of
23:25:17 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:25:19 <zzo38> Meld is now a way for an object to become two as it changes zones; puzzles could perhaps be made up that involve it!
23:25:21 <wob_jonas> `random-card exile(?s:.+\n.*)token copy
23:25:24 <HackEgo> No card found.
23:25:27 <wob_jonas> `random-card exile(?s:.+\n.*)token.*copy
23:25:29 <HackEgo> Soul Foundry \ 4 \ Artifact \ Imprint -- When Soul Foundry enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature card from your hand. \ {X}, {T}: Put a token that's a copy of the exiled card onto the battlefield. X is the converted mana cost of that card. \ MRD-R
23:25:36 <shachaf> ais523: Exiles from the battlefield?
23:25:40 <wob_jonas> `random-card exile(?s:.+\n.*)token.*copy
23:25:41 <HackEgo> Mimic Vat \ 3 \ Artifact \ Imprint -- Whenever a nontoken creature dies, you may exile that card. If you do, return each other card exiled with Mimic Vat to its owner's graveyard. \ {3}, {T}: Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of the exiled card. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. \ SOM-R
23:25:45 <ais523> shachaf: I think so
23:25:50 <ais523> not sure though
23:25:59 <ais523> I might have been thinking of mimic vat
23:26:01 <ais523> or duplicant
23:26:03 <ais523> `card-by-name duplicant
23:26:05 <HackEgo> Duplicant \ 6 \ Artifact Creature -- Shapeshifter \ 2/4 \ Imprint -- When Duplicant enters the battlefield, you may exile target nontoken creature. \ As long as a card exiled with Duplicant is a creature card, Duplicant has the power, toughness, and creature types of the last creature card exiled with Duplicant. It's still a Shapeshifter. \ MRD-R,
23:26:11 <shachaf> Or Soul Foundry above?
23:26:20 <ais523> I know I wasn't thinking of that one
23:26:52 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no, soul foundry exiles from your hand, that doesn't interact with meld at all because you can't have a melded card in your hand, not even momentarily
23:26:53 -!- ^v has joined.
23:27:13 <shachaf> I didn't even see your meld question.
23:29:56 <wob_jonas> 712.4c If an effect can find the new object that a melded permanent becomes as it leaves the battlefield, it finds both cards. (See rule 400.7.) If that effect causes actions to be taken upon those cards, those actions are taken upon each of them.
23:31:14 <zzo38> I would think that if it tries to become attached to both that it does both in sequence, and ends up attached to only one (but both are now in play); this is just a guess though and I am not exactly sure.
23:37:47 <hppavilion[1]> `? replicant
23:37:48 <HackEgo> replicant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:39:36 <hppavilion[1]> `? blade runner
23:39:38 <HackEgo> blade runner? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:39:40 <hppavilion[1]> `? blade jogger
23:39:41 <HackEgo> blade jogger? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:42:21 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:42:36 <wob_jonas> Ok, so suppose I have a Chittering Host (melded) permanent that happens to copy a land (say it's Cytoshaped) and choose to exile it to Extraplanar Lens. Then, does the lens look for lands that are named either Graf Rats or Midnight Scavengers (the two halves of that meld card)? Or does it look for lands that are named both Graf Rats and Midnight Sc
23:42:36 <wob_jonas> avengers at the same time (probably impossible)?
23:44:05 <ais523> wob_jonas: I don't tihnk you can find a land named Graf Rats without the use of Un-cards, at least if you're looking anywhere other than the battlefield
23:44:55 <wob_jonas> ais523: the lens is looking on the battlefield
23:44:55 -!- ^v has joined.
23:45:01 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name extraplanar lens
23:45:03 <HackEgo> Extraplanar Lens \ 3 \ Artifact \ Imprint -- When Extraplanar Lens enters the battlefield, you may exile target land you control. \ Whenever a land with the same name as the exiled card is tapped for mana, its controller adds one mana to his or her mana pool of any type that land produced. \ MRD-R
23:45:14 <wob_jonas> although even that way it might be impossible to get a land with that name, I dunno
23:45:56 <ais523> wob_jonas: oh, that's already got a ruling due to that card that copies triggered abilities
23:46:12 <ais523> I can't remember what the ruling is but there's already a way to imprint two cards on a card that expects only one
23:46:12 <wob_jonas> ah yes!
23:46:15 <wob_jonas> the rings
23:46:26 <ais523> `card-by-name rings of brighthearth
23:46:27 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name rings of bri
23:46:28 <HackEgo> Rings of Brighthearth \ 3 \ Artifact \ Whenever you activate an ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay {2}. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. \ LRW-R
23:46:30 <HackEgo> Rings of Brighthearth \ 3 \ Artifact \ Whenever you activate an ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay {2}. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. \ LRW-R
23:46:38 <wob_jonas> totally
23:46:40 <ais523> that's activated abilities
23:46:49 <ais523> there's one for triggered abilities too
23:46:49 <wob_jonas> um
23:47:05 <wob_jonas> `random-card copy.*triggered abilit
23:47:07 <HackEgo> Strionic Resonator \ 2 \ Artifact \ {2}, {T}: Copy target triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A triggered ability uses the words "when," "whenever," or "at.") \ M14-R
23:47:13 <wob_jonas> that
23:47:21 <shachaf> ais523: When are the rules for ais523game being released?
23:47:25 <ais523> right, I remembered it when I saw the name
23:47:34 <ais523> shachaf: hmm, do you want just rules, or some example cards?
23:47:37 <ais523> doing just the rules would be relatively easy
23:47:43 <shachaf> I'd like both.
23:47:55 <shachaf> But just the rules is surely better than nothing.
23:47:56 <ais523> trying to work out what I want in terms of a color pie, etc., though is harder
23:48:24 <shachaf> I've wondered what a simple core set of rules for a game as flexible as mtg would be like.
23:49:08 <ais523> well, one of my goals was to be able to implement an equivalent for most Magic cards whilst having simpler rules
23:49:15 <wob_jonas> .oO(what if a meld permanent copies Blacker Lotus?)
23:49:32 <ais523> I guess I'll start writing them down in a bit, it's all mental atm
23:49:56 <shachaf> I think there are a lot of small details of old cards that require disproportionate attention and edge cases in the rules.
23:50:19 <wob_jonas> ais523: do you version control your mental ideas with your mental scapegoat?
23:50:22 <ais523> that's why I said "most" not "all"
23:50:23 <wob_jonas> sorry, that was mean
23:50:24 <ais523> wob_jonas: no
23:50:40 <shachaf> Right.
23:50:52 <zzo38> I made up some newer custom Magic: the Gathering cards
23:51:25 <wob_jonas> zzo38: and new rules too for existing cards
23:51:50 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Chaos Confetti
23:51:52 <HackEgo> Chaos Confetti \ 4 \ Artifact \ {4}, {T}: Tear Chaos Confetti into pieces. Throw the pieces onto the playing area from a distance of at least five feet. Destroy each card in play that a piece touches. Remove the pieces from the game afterwards. \ UG-C
23:52:00 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Chaos Orb
23:52:01 <HackEgo> Chaos Orb \ 2 \ Artifact \ {1}, {T}: If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy all nontoken permanents it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb. \ A-R, B-R, U-R
23:52:12 <zzo38> Yes, such as deleting the "creatures can't be attached to anything" rule, and a modification to "bands with other" that as far as I can tell affects no existing combination of non-Un official cards anyways
23:53:49 <wob_jonas> just to make sure, in M:tG, we can already have two Power Taints enchanting each other, right?
23:54:04 <zzo38> `card-by-name Power Taint
23:54:06 <HackEgo> Power Taint \ 1U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant enchantment \ At the beginning of the upkeep of enchanted enchantment's controller, that player loses 2 life unless he or she pays {2}. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ US-C
23:54:10 <wob_jonas> you get them into that state with Simic Guildmage
23:54:13 <zzo38> I think so.
23:55:28 <wob_jonas> is Simic Guildmage the only way to achieve that? or can you just return two Power Taints onto the battlefield at the same time and choose to attach to each other?
23:55:55 <ais523> wob_jonas: replenish probably works
23:55:59 <ais523> `card-by-name replenish
23:56:00 <HackEgo> Replenish \ 3W \ Sorcery \ Return all enchantment cards from your graveyard to the battlefield. (Auras with nothing to enchant remain in your graveyard.) \ UD-R
23:56:16 <ais523> hmm, that reminder text makes me wonder about the timing
23:56:23 <wob_jonas> or Ghostly Flicker + some liquimetal paint
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23:59:26 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh
23:59:46 <hppavilion[1]> I can't find any videos that take every use of the Force in the entirety of the Star Wars saga and put them together
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