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00:48:19 <oerjan> @let class Typeable a => T a
00:49:11 <oerjan> @let newtype W = W Int deriving T
00:49:12 <lambdabot> Can't make a derived instance of ‘T W’:
00:50:25 <oerjan> @tell int-e lambdabot still lacks enabled extensions (like GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving) for enterprise exploit searching tdnh
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00:52:22 <oerjan> shachaf: argh i need GHC again :(
00:52:42 <oerjan> to check if that's an exploit
00:53:06 <oerjan> you cannot newtype derive Typeable, but can you newtype derive a _subclass_ of it?
00:53:48 <oerjan> but i'm not going to install an older version, anyway.
00:54:05 <shachaf> when you get ghc 8 you'll have to answer all my questions hth
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00:56:29 <shachaf> oerjan: Isn't Typeable autoderived these days?
00:56:53 <oerjan> shachaf: yes. the point here is whether you can break it.
00:57:08 <oerjan> by indirectly deriving a wrong instance.
00:59:46 <oerjan> huh the new haskell platform installer requires manual config editing in windows.
01:00:31 <shachaf> Hmm, I think your idea might work...
01:07:14 <\oren\> oerjan: is this a security exploit?
01:07:15 * oerjan downloads minimal version
01:08:00 <oerjan> \oren\: well it's a type safety breach, and some security depends on type safety
01:08:19 <shachaf> not if it takes itself seriously hth
01:08:22 <oerjan> but after all the exploits we've found, you'd be foolish to depend _justs_ on that.
01:09:01 <oerjan> but still, it'll probbly be enough to increase spj's pulse a bit.
01:09:35 <oerjan> stupid lag ruins my typing concentration :(
01:10:23 <oerjan> i think the lag might be due to downloading the Platform
01:11:37 <shachaf> oerjan: just download it onto your cloud server hth
01:11:45 <shachaf> the cloud is all about bandwidth
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01:12:21 <\oren\> ERROR: Rainbow does not implement interface Icloud
01:13:43 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, maybe it doesn't work.
01:13:48 <shachaf> I'll just let you figure it out.
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01:28:15 <oerjan> shachaf: yeah. stupid download.
01:28:40 <oerjan> oh well, 3 mins left it says.
01:30:25 <oerjan> shachaf: i expect that even if it works it'll need some fiddling to get ghc to _not_ ues the autoderived instance.
01:30:56 * oerjan really cannot type when the letters don't show up at the same speed... :(
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01:57:33 <boily> exploding sheep are fun. mwah ah ah ah ah.
01:59:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm also finally restoring backup to my laptop, so now i actually have the origin of sp^wpcs on it.
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02:02:42 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa, i forgot that pun
02:04:30 * oerjan deletes them from the backup directory on nvg, because they took up like half his quota.
02:04:47 <oerjan> the OOTS book (two versions), that is.
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02:06:30 <oerjan> this backup solution might not scale into the next time...
02:08:25 <shachaf> you can back up 250MB very cheaply on the internet hth
02:11:09 <oerjan> i guess. i probably even have something from microsoft included with the laptop.
02:11:26 <oerjan> (although i might have to register more "properly")
02:12:08 <shachaf> You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or something for free for that little space, I'm sure.
02:12:39 <shachaf> Of course, why would you want to store your data in the US?
02:13:06 <oerjan> so the NSA can back it up properly, duh
02:13:36 <oerjan> i have so far avoided getting any kind of account with either google or microsoft.
02:15:08 <shachaf> that would have made more sense if you were talking about the nsa
02:16:08 <oerjan> i'm sure the nsa know all my crimes but consider me too small a fish to fry hth
02:16:27 <shachaf> oerjan: tarsnap will back up your data securely for 250 picodollars / byte-month hth
02:16:43 <shachaf> I have $50 of Tarsnap bounty credit but I've never used it.
02:22:59 <hppavilion[1]> Hi! I just flew in here from https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8, and boy is my FREAKTHEFUCKOUT cortex tired!
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02:34:50 <shachaf> oerjan: did you find a bug that lets you unsafeCoerce between a value and its newtype
02:35:09 <oerjan> that's a little unsatisfactory.
02:35:26 <shachaf> Actually I think you can do more.
02:35:40 <oerjan> i'm not sure. i just had a mysterious failure.
02:37:01 <oerjan> somehow it uses the autoderived Typeable when newtype deriving. or so it seems.
02:39:12 <oerjan> class Typeable a => S a
02:39:12 <oerjan> newtype W = W Int deriving S
02:39:12 <oerjan> f :: S a => a -> TypeRep
02:39:32 <shachaf> clas Typeable a => T a where { foo :: a -> TypeRep }; instance T Int where { foo = typeOf }; newtype W = W Int deriving T; typeOf (W 5) -- Int
02:40:24 <shachaf> Aren't methods the issue with GND?
02:41:28 <oerjan> ok, let me try building on that.
02:43:36 <oerjan> shachaf: hm the problem is that a TypeRep doesn't give you enough to break things
02:43:47 <oerjan> and using a :~: fails due to roles, i think.
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02:43:56 <shachaf> Using :~: in the method does, yes.
02:43:57 <oerjan> so maybe it really is safe, due to roles
02:44:06 <shachaf> The method type has to be representational or something.
02:44:30 <shachaf> But it doesn't seem correct that you can have x :: W such that typeOf x is Int
02:45:44 <shachaf> You effectively do inside the method.
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02:47:40 <shachaf> But roles restrict you from doing much.
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02:55:46 <shachaf> oerjan: so <shachaf> oerjan: did you find a bug that lets you unsafeCoerce between a value and its newtype
02:56:38 <oerjan> what, do you want a swat or something
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02:58:54 <oerjan> confirmed with a GADT that even if you wrap the class existentially, you still get the automatic Typeable.
03:09:16 <shachaf> oerjan: can you do anything with other fancy types
03:09:22 <shachaf> like Vault or StableName or something
03:09:38 <oerjan> well the question is whether you can get something that doesn't force the role
03:16:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, there's nothing special about Typeable here.
03:24:57 <zzo38> Could a microcode execution to work in this way: First all register reads and memory reads and calculations are performed simultaneously, and then the jumping and register writes and memory writes are all performed simultaneously; if a register write affects the operation, jumps will be affected for the current cycle but any other affects occur for the next instruction instead.
03:26:16 <oerjan> shachaf: indeed, my error was assuming that superclass dictionaries somehow got wrapped into subclass ones, and went through newtype deriving with them. but any wrapping doesn't happen until afterwards.
03:26:29 <oerjan> at least that's what i now think.
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03:42:01 <tswett> Long ago (in this exact galaxy), I learned something in a job interview.
03:42:25 <tswett> They asked me to explain the "public", "protected", and "private" access modifiers in OO programming.
03:42:47 <tswett> And in the course of doing so, I realized I didn't quite know how they work.
03:43:47 <tswett> I said that I'm not sure if, in a non-static method belonging to a class, I can access private members of other instances of the class, besides self.
03:43:50 <tswett> Turns out that yeah, you can.
03:43:57 <tswett> And I have no idea why I bring this up.
03:44:12 <tswett> It's kind of a pointless story. Like that one Mitch Hedberg joke.
03:45:34 <zzo38> In what programming language? In some you cannot access private members of other instances of the class
03:45:58 <tswett> I think they were talking about C#. Or... maybe Java?
03:46:09 <tswett> Here we go, it's the Hedberg joke about the locksmith.
03:46:26 <tswett> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mitch_Hedberg - 'If I was a locksmith I'd be fuckin' pimpin' that shit out. "Say, what's goin' on, man? Tell you what. I'll trade you a free key duplication (laughs)." That joke made me laugh before I could finish it. Which is good 'cause there's no ending.'
03:47:29 <shachaf> One time in a job interview they kept trying to get me to say the word "singleton".
03:47:57 <ais523> shachaf: because they wanted to know you were aware of the concept? or did they just think it was a fun word to say?
03:48:08 <shachaf> I kept avoiding it, and saying things like "global variable" because that's what it really amounted to.
03:49:28 <zzo38> JavaScript has no classes or public/protected/private, but you can implement a lot of stuff that acts like it. One thing that can be done is to put the private variables and methods that access them in the constructor; in this way it won't have access to privates of other objects. Another thing can be done is you can make up a WeakMap to assign your own private values to any object.
03:50:05 <zzo38> (Actually JavaScript does now have a "class" command, although I do not use it.)
03:51:13 <shachaf> zzo38: What do you use JavaScript for?
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03:52:10 <zzo38> GreaseMonkey, Node.js, userChrome.js
03:52:57 <HackEgo> There are 3.99 usual suspects, but they're usually rounded up.
03:53:35 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/usual suspect//s3933
03:53:51 <shachaf> oops, squandered opportunity there
03:54:18 <zzo38> What does "sled" mean here?
03:54:39 <tswett> I did a phone interview once. They asked me: if I had to make some classes to represent square tables, rectangular tables, and circular tables, how would I do it?
03:54:51 <shachaf> You give it an argument consisting of a file name, and then two slashes, and then a sed script.
03:55:12 <tswett> I felt like they were obviously expecting a specific answer.
03:55:16 <shachaf> tswett: Was this an innovative database company?
03:55:28 <shachaf> I've never heard of circular tables but it sounds exciting.
03:55:37 <tswett> Have a Table class, then RectangularTable inheriting from Table, SquareTable inheriting from RectangularTable, CircularTable inheriting from Table.
03:55:43 <tswett> That, of course, is not the answer I gave them.
03:57:54 <zzo38> If they ask me such question then I would just ask them more questions.
03:58:53 <shachaf> zzo38: How would you conduct a job interview?
03:59:02 <shachaf> Or, more generally, how would you decide whether to hire someone for a job?
03:59:45 <zzo38> I don't know, but I suppose it can depend what job.
04:03:38 <tswett> Hmmmmm. I'm getting an idea. A terrible idea.
04:03:41 <tswett> Maybe an esolang idea.
04:04:18 <tswett> Interfaces in C# have limitations. For example, there's no way to define this interface:
04:05:14 <tswett> interface ICloneable { T Clone(); /* where T is the class implementing this interface */ }
04:06:05 <tswett> It's also impossible for an interface to contain any method implementations.
04:06:50 <tswett> Interfaces can't contain static members, either.
04:07:02 <tswett> Now, in my opinion, it would make perfect sense for an interface to contain static members.
04:07:32 <shachaf> Sometimes you remind me of Java Update.
04:08:31 <zzo38> That isn't so good that it can't be where T is the class implementing this interface. Even Haskell can do that.
04:08:57 <tswett> zzo38: "even Haskell"? That's sort of a core feature of Haskell.
04:09:14 <zzo38> tswett: Yes I know that
04:09:24 <shachaf> Haskell is an advanced purely-functional programming language.
04:09:51 <tswett> I'm thinkin', could you just have the one concept, called a "trait" or something, that can have abstract members, non-abstract members, static, non-static...
04:10:12 <tswett> And then... implementing an interface is very similar to inheriting from a class.
04:10:44 <tswett> I think I know where this is going.
04:11:01 <tswett> So, there are things called "traits". Traits replace classes and interfaces.
04:12:34 <tswett> A trait can inherit from any number of other traits. Members of traits can be abstract, virtual, or final.
04:14:09 <tswett> Unlike with class inheritance, if a trait B inherits from a trait A, and the trait A has a member called "foo", then the trait B does not automatically have a corresponding member also called "foo".
04:14:43 <tswett> With trait inheritance, members *are* inherited from one trait into its children; but when a member is inherited, it doesn't necessarily keep its name.
04:15:40 <coppro> tswett: this sounds a lot like C++...
04:15:50 <tswett> I don't really know C++.
04:16:04 <coppro> C++ doesn't separate interfaces from classes
04:16:21 <coppro> a class can have any number of bases, be entirely abstract, concrete, entirely virtual, entirely not
04:16:36 <coppro> final was added later as a compiler check
04:17:24 <coppro> C++ allows you to hide inheritance behind access control, so that inheritance is, say, private, in which case consumers can't access base members or convert to the base class. It's rarely used though
04:17:42 <coppro> it supports your ICloneable interface, too, via the CRTP
04:17:48 <coppro> (curiously recursive template pattern)
04:19:30 <tswett> You can make upcasting private? Interesante.
04:19:53 <coppro> multiple inheritance gets a little weird though
04:20:07 <coppro> suppose you have classes B and C inheriting from A, and D inheriting from B and C
04:20:14 <coppro> then by default, D actually has two copies of A
04:20:36 <coppro> you have to mark the base class A virtual in each case to make it collapse into one (at the cost of a lot of extra runtime thunks)
04:26:59 <tswett> One of these days I'll have to work out category theory.
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04:38:54 <hppavilion[1]> After watching that video I posted earlier (https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8 if you forgot), I wrote a program to test communication
04:39:45 <hppavilion[1]> I made a 5-bit character set and a program that would accept input and convert strings of "a"s and "s"s into 0s and 1s then into that character set
04:39:57 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: remind me... what country are you in, if I may ask?
04:40:31 <hppavilion[1]> You would put your left hand (controlled by the right brain) onto the a and s keys and let it go wild, then it would make a result
04:40:53 <hppavilion[1]> [R] assaassaassaassaassasasassaassaasasasassasassaaassaassaaasassassaasaassa
04:42:33 <shachaf> Well, it's hardly among the 48 original states.
04:43:00 <tswett> The 40 original states that the US had back when it was founded, in 1946.
04:43:34 <coppro> USA stands for United State Automaton, right?
04:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: We're hardly an automaton; at best, we're a decision tree
04:44:04 <hppavilion[1]> Not even a decision tree really; more of a stall-instead-of-making-a-decision tree
04:44:57 <tswett> I'm kind of interested.
04:44:58 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, I suppose experiments can't fail if done correctly; they can just give uninteresting results)
04:45:05 <tswett> I've tried to do that sort of thing before.
04:45:15 <hppavilion[1]> I just realized how many times my right brain said "ass"
04:45:44 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, to be fair, there's a 1/8 chance of it saying that for any 3 "a"s and "s"s
04:45:52 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: you ever hear of tulpas? http://www.tulpa.info/what-is-a-tulpa/
04:45:56 <oerjan> `learn Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
04:45:57 <hppavilion[1]> And the chance probably goes up when you allow overlapping chains
04:46:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'histogram': Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
04:46:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?USA: not found
04:46:28 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice.
04:46:42 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: so, I can try to find you an internship in Michigan if you're ever interested.
04:46:46 <coppro> `learn USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton
04:46:49 <HackEgo> Relearned 'usa': USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton
04:47:45 <shachaf> i'm not the logreader here
04:48:07 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: oh god what?
04:48:10 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I don't think tilting your eyes by about a half a radian counts as logreading
04:49:50 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: But then again, quantum physics is pretty damn crazy, and brains are a lot bigger than quantum stuff
04:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I have a feeling this /might/ be one of those things that is really crazy- crazier than things that are wrong- but also plausible
04:50:59 <shachaf> If oerjan was here he would fix that wisdom entry.
04:51:03 <shachaf> Since he's not retired anymore.
04:51:11 <shachaf> Maybe he'd even fix it with sedlast or sled.
04:52:06 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/usa/s,$,.,
04:52:17 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/usa//s,$,.,
04:52:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton.
04:52:27 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't trust sedlast
04:52:49 <shachaf> oerjan: it works fine if you're not racist hth
04:54:00 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: It at least seems like an interesting thing to experiment with over the summer
04:54:14 <oerjan> shachaf: since when am i not retired
04:54:46 <shachaf> oerjan: since you started editing wisdom entries again hth
04:55:02 <oerjan> i think you are just confused about what i retired from hth
04:55:18 <oerjan> . o O ( or perhaps i am )
04:55:52 <oerjan> anyway, in norway retired people are now officially encouraged to keep working.
04:57:24 <oerjan> shachaf: fixing stupid bugs from people who cannot remember how HackEgo works even after the fifth time
04:57:40 <shachaf> why did you ever take that job in the first place
04:58:51 <oerjan> also, i retired from actually checking the repository browser page.
04:59:25 <oerjan> those two things are not unconnected.
04:59:55 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: oh yeah, are you starting summer vacation right around now?
05:00:41 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I've been on summer vacation for... maybe 2 weeks?
05:00:44 <HackEgo> 5000000000 288 0.0 0.2 4180 620 ? S 04:00 0:00 sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' '`' 'ps aux | grep grep' | cat \ 500000000 290 0.0 0.6 19140 1600 ?
05:00:51 <HackEgo> Your retired mysterious adjectival cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:01:03 <tswett> My summer vacation was yesterday. :D
05:01:36 <oerjan> i knew americans had it bad, but...
05:02:05 <tswett> I have an office job. I get 25 vacation days a year.
05:02:05 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/oerjan//s-retired --;s(rd(rd emeritus(
05:02:10 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:02:51 <shachaf> pikhq: You get that at Google after 5 years, right?
05:02:57 <shachaf> Except in Europe where you get it right away, or something.
05:03:09 <tswett> Which... I understand that Europe generally has better vacation time than the US.
05:03:38 <oerjan> `sedlast s/antediluvian/precambrian/
05:03:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:03:49 <tswett> Man, y'know, I think I've been a regular in this channel for about 11 years now.
05:04:02 <shachaf> oerjan: suddenly you're sedlasting?
05:04:13 <shachaf> tswett: 11 years a regular and still not a member?
05:04:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:04:33 <pikhq> How long have I been here?
05:04:38 <pikhq> I honestly don't know.
05:04:59 <shachaf> I've been using Freenode for over 12 years, I think.
05:05:10 <shachaf> Though my nick was registered a little under 12.
05:05:31 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Elronnd\StD.
05:06:18 <shachaf> ...12 years ago, not age 12
05:06:45 <shachaf> Though those aren't all that far apart.
05:07:10 <shachaf> Maybe I should stay away from that topic.
05:07:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:08:41 <oerjan> i've been here for 10 years now. plus/minus a few days.
05:09:48 <oerjan> maybe i was on the wiki first.
05:11:04 <shachaf> `le/rn chaf/Any word ending in "chac" can notify shachaf.
05:11:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/chaf//Any word ending in "chaf" can notify shachaf.
05:18:35 <tswett> I wonder when my first wiki edit was.
05:22:46 <tswett> So yeah. About 11 years.
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06:09:40 <Sgeo> My expensive toys aren't working :(
06:14:54 <pikhq> And your cheap toys?
06:21:29 <Sgeo> This ring is still holding together
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06:54:11 <hppavilion[1]> I don't see why people use 4-part versioning schemes when we can use the more modern, more expressive 18446744073709551616-part schemes
06:54:42 <hppavilion[1]> And even then, we should avoid those for major software and use the G64-part scheme
07:05:42 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2985 is actually an awesome idea
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07:06:56 <oerjan> `learn Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were.
07:06:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'tetri': Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were.
07:07:31 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/tetri{,s}
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07:19:58 <oerjan> <shachaf> What happened there? <-- a timeout, probably.
07:20:33 <shachaf> oerjan: I guess if it prints text and then times out some text still gets printed.
07:20:54 <shachaf> you have an odd logreading order
07:21:53 <oerjan> <gamemanj> ...or at least one of them, at any rate! <-- hi
07:22:07 <oerjan> shachaf: no, i've just not got any further?
07:22:26 <shachaf> I guess you don't count reading your IRC client as logreading.
07:24:16 <shachaf> I guess you could de-s it.
07:24:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/the usual suspect \ wisdom/usual suspects
07:24:38 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/the usual suspect
07:24:39 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/the usual suspect: No such file or directory
07:24:59 <myname> how the fuck did this tetri learning happen?
07:25:22 <oerjan> myname: it strips off s
07:25:56 <shachaf> `` ls wisdom/the\ usual\ suspect
07:26:00 <shachaf> `` ls -l wisdom/the\ usual\ suspect
07:26:02 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000000 0 13 May 31 19:43 wisdom/the usual suspect -> usual suspect
07:26:11 <shachaf> `` mv wisdom/usual\ suspect{s,}
07:26:19 <HackEgo> There are 3.99 usual suspects, but they're usually rounded up.
07:26:48 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/usual suspect//s;,; in #esoteric,;
07:26:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/usual suspect//There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up.
07:28:25 <shachaf> I was pretty pleased with that pun.
07:28:42 <shachaf> @tell boily if only you were here to measure my funpun tdnh
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07:30:17 <oerjan> myname: John, Ahmed, Jens, Fiona and Balthasar hth
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07:30:57 <shachaf> oerjan is good at rounding
07:31:36 <shachaf> i,i But the Judge said he never had summed up before; / So the Snark undertook it instead, / And summed it so well that it came to far more / Than the Witnesses ever had said!
07:33:15 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || exit 1; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
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07:34:46 <shachaf> Maybe a sledpreview would be useful.
07:35:05 <shachaf> So you can test in /msg and then sled in produ^W#esoteric.
07:35:34 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled/s/exit 1; sed/{ echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1 }/
07:35:36 <shachaf> `sled bin/sled//s#\|\| exit 1#|| { echo 'no such file'; exit 1; }#
07:35:39 <HackEgo> bin/sled//|| { echo 'no such file'; exit 1; }[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || exit 1; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
07:36:06 <hppavilion[1]> I just discovered Dinosaur Comics 'butiwouldratherbereading'
07:36:23 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
07:36:25 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled//s/exit 1; sed/{ echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1 }/
07:36:32 <HackEgo> bin/sled//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1 } -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
07:36:46 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/sled: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
07:36:54 <hppavilion[1]> Which suggests that Dinosaur Comics is generated by an algorithm; the individual pages might even just be text on the server
07:37:15 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
07:37:26 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2968&butiwouldratherbereading=somethingmorehistoricallyaccurate IS THE BEST THING EVER
07:37:37 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled//s/exit 1; sed/{ echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1 }; sed/
07:37:41 <HackEgo> bin/sled//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1 }; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
07:37:47 <hppavilion[1]> (Am I late to the party? Did everybody already know about this?)
07:37:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/sled: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
07:38:08 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i am not even reading what you're saying.
07:38:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: still not reading.
07:39:02 <shachaf> I only read the good ones.
07:39:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Were you aware of butiwouldratherbereading?
07:39:28 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Because http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2968&butiwouldratherbereading=somethingmorehistoricallyaccurate is amazing
07:39:50 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, that's quite an oath
07:39:57 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
07:40:06 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || exit 1; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
07:40:24 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Wait, how do you know which ones are good in advance?
07:40:51 <shachaf> oerjan: i can't believe you would use a big big D
07:41:24 <oerjan> i have no idea why this isn't working.
07:44:30 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled//s/exit 1; sed/{ echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed/
07:44:36 <HackEgo> bin/sled//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
07:45:17 <shachaf> That took a little too long.
07:46:10 <b_jonas> ais523: do you happen to know why the templating of Confound and Intervene differs?
07:46:15 <HackEgo> Confound \ 1U \ Instant \ Counter target spell that targets one or more creatures. \ Draw a card. \ PS-C
07:46:18 <HackEgo> Intervene \ U \ Instant \ Counter target spell that targets a creature. \ UL-C
07:46:40 <b_jonas> ais523: as far as I know, the first abilities function exactly the same, and there's no reason why they should be phrased differently
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10:14:07 <b_jonas> What's the current best way to report templating problems (indirectly) to the M:tG rules team then? The wizards forum worked for me once, but that forum is shut down now, so I'm not sure what to do .
10:15:04 <gamemanj> start new forums, let them get popular, then report them there?
10:15:13 <shachaf> b_jonas: I think you can send them mail.
10:15:33 <gamemanj> shachaf: I think the "indirectly" means it has to be publically visible
10:15:36 <b_jonas> shachaf: send who email? I don't think you could ever send email directly to wizards. Even on the forum, you didn't talk directly to wizards.
10:15:45 <shachaf> I meant physical mail, not email.
10:15:53 <b_jonas> shachaf: ah... that might work
10:15:56 <shachaf> At least I think I read an article where they talked about receiving mail.
10:16:29 <b_jonas> Wizards used to have some forms on their website, but I don't think they worked well. Or at least, the bug reports I sent about the Gatherer interface with that form never got into their public list of bugs about Gatherer.
10:16:45 <b_jonas> Let me try to find a snail mail address.
10:17:05 <b_jonas> shachaf: how old an article? this may have changed in the last few years.
10:17:15 <shachaf> I'm not even sure if I actually read it.
10:20:19 <b_jonas> alternately, I can try the "customer service" emails or phones they give
10:20:50 <b_jonas> and maybe I should also try to report the Gatherer issues that Gatherer still has
10:20:56 <shachaf> "We at Wizards of the Coast recognize that no matter how detailed the rules, situations will arise in which the interaction of specific cards requires a precise answer. If you have questions, you can get the answers from us at Wizards.com/CustomerService. Additional contact information is on the last page of these rules."
10:21:07 <shachaf> I think they're probably aware of some of the Gatherer issues.
10:21:20 <shachaf> Like how comments have been broken for 2 years or something, haven't they?
10:22:11 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, but they used to have a list of bugs (for the old Gatherer), and also had a submission form for new bugs, but even after some time, the bug I reported through the form didn't get to the list or get fixed. that might hvae been something I did wrong though. mind you, the new gatherer fixed some of the old bugs (and introduced new bugs) so it's partly moot.
10:22:25 <shachaf> "However, if you have rules questions that aren't answered by the basic or comprehensive rules or the release notes, feel free to contact customer service."
10:22:28 <shachaf> http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2339
10:23:10 <b_jonas> Gatherer used to have a lot of bugs about split and flip cards. I think they fixed those now, but now they have at least one bug about double-faced card.s
10:25:43 <gamemanj> ...I wonder how a card game could have bugs, but yet, the rules of a card game are a program the players follow.
10:26:05 <shachaf> Well, Magic: The Gathering isn't even decidable.
10:26:28 <gamemanj> That could make things difficult.
10:27:26 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I said _Gatherer_ had bugs. it's a software.
10:27:39 <b_jonas> but yes, the card game also has bugs
10:28:00 <gamemanj> Ah. (I have no idea what's what, so I'm just being very general about what I say)
10:28:28 <b_jonas> this templating inconsistency with Intervene I was talking about is a bug in the card game, although it's a very minor doc bug, not an important bug. there are bigger bugs that pop up occasionally.
10:29:17 <b_jonas> (I'm still annoyed by Hollow Dogs being a Zombie instead of a Skeleton, but that's not definitely a bug)
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10:39:09 <gamemanj> hmm, how many nodes do I need to put in a graph before it annoys people who try to understand it?
10:40:40 <b_jonas> I'll probably try the customer service
10:44:46 <gamemanj> Taneb: Ok, so a graph of the Audio Test it is - that only has 2 nodes.
10:45:52 <gamemanj> Also note that zzo38's program would be a better fit if it wasn't somehow able to change it's own jump value...
10:46:22 <gamemanj> or, at least, that's what the analyzer's saying
10:50:03 <gamemanj> Oh, it's the second segment generalization pass that's doing it... it runs the pass twice so that it won't have to recompile segments as much, but somehow zzo38's program is theoretically capable of self-modification. It's probably not, but it's convinced the analyzer.
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11:28:45 <gamemanj> If I can recognize the structure of my font renderer in a directed graph of control flow... am I crazy?
11:32:39 <int-e> gamemanj: I see no causal relationship between the two.
11:33:25 <ais523> that said you might be crazy for other reasons
11:33:35 * int-e absent-mindedly mapoles oerjan before he realizes that he's not even there.
11:34:12 <int-e> which is why I didn't just reply with a simple "no".
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11:35:26 <int-e> gamemanj: I'll be more blunt: Be careful or the bytes will push you over the edge ;-)
11:35:46 <int-e> (hurray for weak puns)
11:36:01 <gamemanj> int-e: stare into the heart of the bytes https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/project-i.svg
11:36:57 <int-e> gamemanj: you'll have to forgive me, I find that graph confusing :P
11:37:27 <gamemanj> Like, I know what code it's from, but I don't have a symbol table
11:37:54 <int-e> why is there a red edge
11:38:05 <gamemanj> red means the virtual machine was interrupted
11:38:17 <int-e> and is graphviz really still the most usable graph renderer around?
11:38:30 <gamemanj> Well, it was a bit slow, but then again the input .dot was REALLY BIG
11:39:02 <gamemanj> Reminder: At some point this had to be generated
11:39:16 <int-e> and what are the labels on the edges?
11:39:35 <int-e> number of instructions?
11:40:05 <gamemanj> Basically this graph doesn't show every instruction, it instead condenses it into "segments"
11:40:16 <gamemanj> This is more or less an offshoot of a test to see how JITable BytePusher could be
11:40:44 <int-e> oh there's a 520 instructions edge... neat
11:40:49 <gamemanj> Each square or circle represents a segment. Not shown are the "alternate" versions of segments which are generated to handle parallel universes
11:41:00 <lambdabot> shachaf said 4h 12m 17s ago: if only you were here to measure my funpun tdnh
11:41:15 <gamemanj> (If the compilation of the segment made assumptions which turned out to be wrong, a parallel version is made to handle the new condition)
11:41:25 <boily> @ask shachaf hellochaf. you punned?
11:41:33 <int-e> for the record, the mapole is for <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 42m 18s ago: lambdabot still lacks enabled extensions (like GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving) for enterprise exploit searching tdnh
11:41:36 <gamemanj> (All versions of all segments are cached, but they are not generated until needed)
11:42:06 <int-e> I think GND is still not considered to be SafeHaskell anyway.
11:43:03 <int-e> hmm, there's a rectangle...
11:43:16 <gamemanj> Rectangle means that there has been at least one initialization at that point
11:43:23 <int-e> (actually, a few of them)
11:43:37 <gamemanj> That is, the 2/3/4 address was set there on at least one frame
11:43:41 <gamemanj> Usually you will find that only red lines lead to these, but that may not always be the case
11:43:58 <int-e> so self-modifying code?
11:44:12 <gamemanj> No, just changing the per-frame address
11:44:19 <gamemanj> The self-modification is more or less obscured by this graph.
11:44:39 <gamemanj> Mind, the reason this graph is more than just 2 nodes is because it does self-modify jump addresses and such
11:44:42 <gamemanj> To actually perform calculations
11:44:53 <gamemanj> Things like the Audio Test are 2 nodes
11:44:53 <int-e> I don't know what per-frame address means, and I don't want to know right now :P
11:45:13 <gamemanj> Well, it's the same thing as the red lines, really
11:45:54 <gamemanj> If you don't find any red lines going to a rectangle,
11:45:54 <fizzie> "This train is experiencing difficulties, which are being dealt with." First time I've heard that one.
11:46:09 <gamemanj> that's probably the initialization node - the first code the VM executes.
11:47:37 <gamemanj> Aha. Initialization is at 47e.
11:47:55 <ais523> fizzie: is this train in the UK? or was that translated? it sounds strangely nonidiomatic
11:48:12 <gamemanj> From that, I can infer that fc2ef7 is the Internal Keyboard Test part of the system.
11:49:22 <fizzie> ais523: South West Trains, so UK.
11:49:39 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/suzytimms/status/615391949701423104
11:50:04 <gamemanj> int-e: For future reference, if an address ends in f4, it usually means "false", if it ends in f7, it usually means "true".
11:50:20 <ais523> I learned a ton about health and safety from reading train accident reports
11:50:20 <ais523> also learned quite a bit about how trains fail in the process
11:50:42 <ais523> (they fail pretty safe; there are reports where things went catastrophically wrong and still nobody was hurt)
11:50:44 <fizzie> It did continue: "Please listen for further announcements from [unintelligible]."
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11:51:13 <gamemanj> fizzie: Are you actually in this train?
11:51:25 <fizzie> I didn't notice any difficulties, and there were no further announcements, so possibly it was played back by mistake.
11:51:55 <fizzie> I was on that train a few minutes ago, now I'm in a different one already.
11:52:15 <fizzie> I keep forgetting about #trains.
11:52:19 <ais523> there was this report that came out recently, and actually lead to the train company responsible being /banned/ from the railways, but nobody was hurt: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/dangerous-occurrence-at-wootton-bassett-junction-wiltshire
11:53:00 <ais523> (I suspect that the reason for the ban was related to the whole thing about intentionally disabling safety systems that would have prevented the accident)
11:56:26 <fizzie> "RAIB has identified one key learning point. This is that allowing safety critical systems such as AWS and TPWS to function without improper interference is vital to the safe operation of the railway."
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12:19:18 <b_jonas> `learn bézout/Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials.
12:19:43 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/bézout/bézout': No such file or directory \ Learned 'bézout/bézout'': bézout/Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of
12:19:51 <b_jonas> `slashlearn bézout/Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials.
12:20:17 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i wisdom/{bézout,bézout's}
12:20:20 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
12:20:30 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i "wisdom/{bézout,bézout's}"
12:20:32 <HackEgo> cp: missing destination file operand after `wisdom/{b\303\251zout,b\303\251zout\'s}' \ Try `cp --help' for more information.
12:20:42 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i wisdom/{bézout,bézout\'s}
12:20:53 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i wisdom/{bézout,bezout}
12:20:59 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i wisdom/{bézout,bezout\'s}
12:21:02 <b_jonas> ``` cp -i wisdom/{bézout,bezout\'s theorem}
12:21:06 <HackEgo> cp: cannot stat `wisdom/{b\303\251zout,bezout\'s': No such file or directory
12:21:25 <b_jonas> ``` cp -vi wisdom/{bézout,bezout"'s theorem"}
12:21:30 <HackEgo> `wisdom/b\303\251zout' -> `wisdom/bezout\'s theorem'
12:21:33 <b_jonas> ``` cp -vi wisdom/{bézout,bézout"'s theorem"}
12:21:37 <HackEgo> `wisdom/b\303\251zout' -> `wisdom/b\303\251zout\'s theorem'
12:27:11 <HackEgo> itidus21//itidus21 just made some instant coffee, and did it again an instant later, and then again and again. where is all this coffee coming from? it has buried itidus21! where is itidus21?
12:27:28 <boily> @ask itidus21 where are you?
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12:32:43 <gamemanj> boily: probably under a lot of instant coffee
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13:07:10 <int-e> hmm, any connection? ... boily has quit [Quit: BALCONY CHICKEN] Elronnd\StD has quit [Quit: Let's jump!]
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13:15:35 <gamemanj> ...jumping off of the Balcony is a bad idea before defeating <data removed>. After defeating <data removed>, it is still a bad idea, unless you wish to receive the "bad" ending...
13:18:04 <b_jonas> what if, instead of jumping off the Balcony, you drop that huge beam on him by shooting the supporting chains?
13:18:39 <gamemanj> ...I have no idea what we're talking about.
13:20:44 <int-e> "Madotsuki climbs the stairs, jumps off the side of the balcony and plummets downward, then everything becomes dark." ?!
13:21:24 <gamemanj> Oh. I thought we were talking about something entirely different.
13:21:51 <int-e> I guess there must be many games with balconies :P
13:22:00 <int-e> that's the first one google found for me
13:22:10 <gamemanj> Now, why someone would waste their time climbing up stairs only to jump off a balcony...
13:22:31 <gamemanj> They could just, you know, walk to the area under the balcony.
13:23:37 <int-e> since I've read about the game for all of 5 minutes I can tell you that you can't... because your room door is impassable (locked? apparently the heroine doesn't even bother trying the door, and just shakes her head)
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13:47:11 <quintopia> so super mario bros is PSPACE-complete, eh
13:47:52 <int-e> `learn PK is short for Phil Katz, an infamous player killer of the 1990s whose favorite method of attack was to deflate his enemies.
13:48:03 <HackEgo> Learned 'pk': PK is short for Phil Katz, an infamous player killer of the 1990s whose favorite method of attack was to deflate his enemies.
13:49:02 <int-e> super mario bros has crazy game mechanics... knocking monsters up through bricks?
13:50:23 <izabera> http://news.mit.edu/2016/mario-brothers-hard-complexity-class-pspace-0601 heh nice
13:50:59 <HackEgo> Mario is a classic NP-hard problem invented by Nintendo.
13:51:13 <b_jonas> ``` echo wisdom/*[mM]ario*
13:51:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/mario wisdom/supermarionation wisdom/supermarioperator
13:51:30 <HackEgo> supermarionation is another name for the mushroom kingdom.
13:51:47 <HackEgo> supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle.
13:53:39 <gamemanj> Is there a class between "finite state machine" and "turing-complete" for things that would be turing-complete if their environment gave them access to an external infinite memory?
13:54:25 <b_jonas> izabera: I don't understand why that's somehow news today. is there a paper that proves something more than the original paper from 2009?
13:54:58 <b_jonas> I mean, wasn't it already turing complete back then? or am I confusing mario games or something?
13:55:36 <int-e> gamemanj: that seems a bit pointless; after all, Turing machines are finite automata with access to an infinite memory
13:57:01 <b_jonas> hmm, maybe the original super mario paper is form 2012
13:57:28 <int-e> b_jonas: http://erikdemaine.org/papers/Mario_FUN2016/paper.pdf
13:57:33 <b_jonas> http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.1895 by Greg Aloupis, Erik D. Demaine, Alan Guo, Giovanni Viglietta is I think the famous paper, althoguh the research does go back by years
13:57:45 <gamemanj> It's just that how finite the finite state machine is defines if it could implement something.
13:57:57 <b_jonas> do we have wisdom entries about this? I thoguht `? mario or something would tell
13:59:35 <b_jonas> int-e: ok, that's REALLY interesting
13:59:44 <b_jonas> int-e: thanks for nudging, I'll have to look at that article in detail
14:00:50 <int-e> essentially they have a new door device that looks embarassingly simple, but is based on a game mechanic that I didn't expect.
14:00:55 <int-e> (I've never played those games)
14:01:26 <b_jonas> int-e: it doesn't matter much, the original result is quite general and applies to lots of games, so I expect this one would as well
14:01:35 <b_jonas> a specific game or two doesn't matter
14:01:52 <b_jonas> you've probably played at least one 2d scroller game where it applies
14:02:00 <b_jonas> where some of the results apply that is
14:10:35 <int-e> There isn't much new from the general framework perspective, I think; they just instantiate their existing PSPACE framework.
14:12:36 <int-e> well, there's an interesting idea of exploiting timers for NP-hardness proofs.
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14:17:11 <b_jonas> int-e: ok, I will still read later
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15:32:12 <b_jonas> Git question. How do I list all tags together with the commits they point to? (git branch -l -a -v) lists all branches together with the commit id they point to (plus two other columns that are irrelevant here), but (git tag -l) which lists tags doesn't have the relevant fields. Do I have to invoke (git rev-parse) for each tag or something?
15:39:58 <int-e> git tag --format '%(refname:short) %(objectname)'
15:40:27 <int-e> (hmm, better swap those two fields to get a readable output)
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15:50:40 <b_jonas> and apparently --format is an argument that doesn't work for the (git branch) command, so I can't just do almost the same thing for tags and branches
15:50:49 <b_jonas> this will help, I'll add it to my script
15:53:49 <int-e> git for-each-ref --format '%(objectname) %(refname)' refs/heads refs/tags
15:54:17 <int-e> (there's a reference to git-for-each-ref in the documentation for git-tag's --format flag)
15:56:22 <int-e> it's just getting more low-level that way... but you can treat tags and branches and remote branches in a fairly uniform way
16:10:54 <b_jonas> I'm already treating remote branches too (well, fetched snapshots of remote branhces), because git branch -a does that
16:14:07 <b_jonas> but it's good to know about for-each-ref , I'll use that next time I want this
16:19:45 <quintopia> `learn Mario is a classic PSPACE-complete problem invented by Nintendo.
16:20:15 <HackEgo> Relearned 'mario': Mario is a classic PSPACE-complete problem invented by Nintendo.
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17:11:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47097&oldid=46134 * M654 * (+86)
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19:33:00 <zgrep> Does it /have/ to be formal?
19:46:31 <int-e> I'm inclined to say yes, with the justification that any implementation of the programming language can serve as a formal specification... but you can take a more strict view on what "formal" means...
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19:47:54 <int-e> and there's a large grey area anyway... if you tell Siri to add two and three, and multiply the result by five... and assuming it does so... does that constitute an act of programming?
19:48:58 <int-e> why doesn't the google assistant have a name
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19:49:40 <int-e> even microsoft gave their Siri a name... Cortana.
19:49:57 <int-e> but Google calls theirs "Assistant".
19:50:17 <int-e> (as far as I can see, please tell me if I'm wrong)
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19:50:57 <\oren\> hmm i shpuod probably know more about those than i do
19:51:17 <\oren\> theyre our competitors after all
19:52:16 <\oren\> its officially called the google now app
19:54:19 <int-e> "Hey, now, what's the time?" ... mmm, no that doesn't sound right.
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19:58:04 <\oren\> with most of tjese you can customize the actovation phrase
20:00:20 <int-e> hmm, another memory lapse... I read some scifi story where the hero (who is with the military), together with some hundred other people, gets an assistant implanted... and he decides to call it "asshole"... and gets warned that this is a very popular choice.
20:01:16 <\oren\> this will be important when you have a voice activated car and phone. "hey Civic" to talk to your car. "hey galaxy" to talk to your phone
20:01:53 <\oren\> the defaults are important for product branding
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20:06:09 <\oren\> argh speaking of google some sort of recruiter from them called me just now.
20:07:08 <gamemanj> On the one hand, you could say "what, they just... called you???"... on the other hand, what's the chance it's really a google recruiter?
20:07:56 <\oren\> well the same person had emailed me and is pestering me on linkedin
20:08:01 <gamemanj> I theorize that it is actually Vermicious Knid.
20:08:17 <shachaf> Did the recruiter tell you to scram?
20:08:21 <int-e> are you at work where you can forward them to the legal department :P
20:09:57 <gamemanj> ...did you double check the authenticity of the sender?
20:10:34 <shachaf> Why are you expecting the email to be illegitimate?
20:11:05 <gamemanj> shachaf: Not expecting, but it's a possibility that should be kept in mind
20:11:33 <\oren\> it looks legit. seems sleazy for them to be nagging a competirors employees
20:11:50 <shachaf> Sleazy would be the opposite.
20:11:59 <shachaf> In fact they got sued for it.
20:12:20 <shachaf> Anyway, that's a legitimate @google.com email address, it's easy to look it up.
20:12:55 <shachaf> So you can just send email to it.
20:13:56 <\oren\> i just dumped her over the phone
20:14:12 <gamemanj> ...That phrasing has fun implications.
20:14:38 <int-e> good idea, I don't like phones either?
20:14:55 <pikhq> https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabbyzarnegar appears to be the person in question
20:15:16 <shachaf> You work at SoundHound, don't you?
20:15:20 <shachaf> Is that even a competitor?
20:15:54 <\oren\> yes. i work on our voice assisyant, Hound
20:16:09 <fizzie> And Google does have a sound search feature as well.
20:16:15 <fizzie> Though I'd guess most people don't even know it exists.
20:16:26 <shachaf> Google's search feature is pretty sound.
20:16:30 <\oren\> and the Houndify platform
20:16:47 <fizzie> A (sound search) feature, not a sound (search feature).
20:17:22 <shachaf> Or are you talking about Google Maps?
20:17:29 <shachaf> I guess it can search bays too.
20:18:09 <shachaf> "I have experience using both the Waterfall methodology and Agile/XP methodologies"
20:18:57 <gamemanj> did someone post oren's job history into a side-channel or something?
20:19:07 <shachaf> Is there anyone who says that they "use Waterfall"?
20:19:12 <shachaf> I thought it was mostly a straw man.
20:19:23 <\oren\> nah hes probably reading my linkedin
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20:19:55 <int-e> straw men should easily keep afloat ...
20:20:09 <shachaf> Now I'm reading https://www.quora.com/How-can-the-sequence-3-7-15-31-63-etc-be-continued/answer/Oren-Watson
20:20:21 <shachaf> But I think you got that one wrong.
20:20:37 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/math-diff-2-4.txt explains the correct method.
20:22:27 <fizzie> Puget Sound is the only sound I know of.
20:24:19 <int-e> > let ex [x] = repeat x; ex xs = scanl (+) (head xs) (ex (zipWith (-) (tail xs) xs)) in ex [0,1,3,7,15,31,63]
20:24:21 <lambdabot> [0,1,3,7,15,31,63,126,246,465,847,1485,2509,4095,6475,9948,14892,21777,31179...
20:24:23 <shachaf> fizzie: That's a sound sound, though.
20:25:26 <shachaf> int-e: I think I'd continue it as 3, 7, 15, 31, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, ...
20:25:32 <int-e> ("ex" stands for "extrapolate", of course)
20:26:25 <int-e> shachaf: hmm, 17 would come after 42 for me, in the list of most plausible answers
20:26:45 <shachaf> int-e: Well, did you read the link I posted?
20:28:06 <int-e> shachaf: not in full detail. but according to that link you should continue with 19 :-P
20:30:40 <int-e> I'd also bet that the answer is yes.
20:30:48 <int-e> I just don't know any.
20:31:17 <int-e> and I'm too lazy to construct a lmgtfy link.
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20:32:39 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv.
20:32:45 <int-e> ... it should probably say something about being obnoxious there.
20:34:08 <gamemanj> int-e attempts to use certain spräk deriviations to confuse gamemanj.
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20:34:36 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/int-e
20:34:49 <HackEgo> oerjan boily boily oerjan oerjan
20:34:53 <int-e> (though the former question is also valid... but hackego isn't the authority on that matter)
20:35:27 <gamemanj> so, if you're too lazy to construct a lmgtfy link...
20:35:43 <gamemanj> does that mean you need a lmlmgtfyfy link?
20:35:52 <int-e> gamemanj: basically "inte" is a swedish word, meaning "not"... so that gave rise to the first sentence, and I pretty much gave you all information that is required to guess its meaning...
20:36:41 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: ...
20:36:56 <gamemanj> (for future reference, I do not know Swedish, but I know Swedish text when I see it, and I also know that spräk means language.)
20:37:23 <gamemanj> why would that be a bad thing?
20:37:25 <int-e> I don't know the language either.
20:37:56 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: I already commented on that.
20:38:13 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: The solution is a lmlmgtfyfy link.
20:38:31 <int-e> it's funny because it's meta
20:38:42 <int-e> or, meta-meta, really.
20:39:23 <int-e> @google twitter command line client linux
20:39:24 <lambdabot> http://www.tecmint.com/rainbow-stream-command-line-twitter-client-linux/
20:39:24 <lambdabot> Title: Rainbow Stream - An Advanced Command-line Twitter Client for Linux
20:40:06 <int-e> clearly there's room for improvement there
20:40:15 <\oren\> i always[assumed int-e was a variable declaration
20:40:27 <shachaf> \oren\: I tried to use SoundHound but it didn't work.
20:40:47 <shachaf> You're supposed to be able to hum into it to find a name for a melody, right?
20:41:26 <\oren\> yes. although it only works if youre good at humming i find
20:42:45 <gamemanj> "[translation] both our infinite dreams and our sketched out future..."
20:42:55 <HackEgo> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=shell-based+twitter+client
20:43:03 <hppavilion[1]> Probably not perfect, but it works at least a little
20:43:29 <hppavilion[1]> (It won't substitute special characters with %-codes, but it will at least deal with spaces)
20:43:44 <int-e> ludicrous mind games
20:44:06 <gamemanj> ...soundhound wants access to: Location, Files, Microphone, Wi-Fi connection information, Device ID and call information...
20:44:14 <gamemanj> there are 4 of those which should not be in that list
20:44:22 <gamemanj> Location, Files, Device ID and call information
20:44:33 <quintopia> i use bitlbee. does this qualify as a shell-based twitter client?
20:44:51 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I've always hated apps that request permissions they should not want. I never give them permission to, in most cases
20:45:16 <\oren\> hmmm not sure why it wants those
20:45:19 <gamemanj> Location it just shouldn't have, end of. Files it could possibly have a reason to access if you told it to.
20:45:26 <gamemanj> Microphone it obviously needs.
20:45:40 <gamemanj> Wi-Fi connection information is fine because you don't want it to eat data costs.
20:45:46 <hppavilion[1]> For example, no game should want any permissions. /Maybe/ pictures if it has a built-in screencap capability
20:45:52 <\oren\> location is so it can tell you what oeople near you are listenibg to
20:45:53 <shachaf> Doesn't lmgtfy.com have a "slightly less rude" mode?
20:45:56 <int-e> actually location seems to be the most useful of the four... popular songs vary wildly by country
20:46:10 <gamemanj> Wrong - moddable games need some way to give them the Lua files. But it shouldn't have anything else.
20:46:35 <gamemanj> int-e: That's even worse, since it means it won't find my really obscure song of choice.
20:46:48 <int-e> device id makes no sense at all to me (except for tracking, obviously), and neither do contacts (but I bet there's a "share this find with..." feature)
20:46:58 <int-e> gamemanj: the other 99% of users won't care!
20:47:16 <\oren\> there is sociak media integration yeah
20:47:24 <quintopia> i dont mind games wanting internetty permissions, for scoreboards and the like
20:47:29 <int-e> files... no clue why it wants that
20:47:47 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Can't find anything labeled "less rude" or the like
20:47:53 <fizzie> Just about everything seems to want the USB storage permission.
20:47:56 <shachaf> Oh, you add &n=1 to the URL.
20:47:56 <\oren\> it can save songs tpfrom itunes etc
20:48:01 <shachaf> It's slightly less rude that way.
20:48:10 <int-e> big data idea: get a taste for music preferences :P
20:48:16 <gamemanj> There is a theoretical reason that it would want files, so that you can give it music
20:48:29 <gamemanj> without having to play it back into the phone
20:48:45 <gamemanj> Really it's location and device ID that it has no reason for
20:48:53 <\oren\> and you can use it as a music plqyer app
20:49:13 <fizzie> At least in M and later you can just turn off those permissions you don't want to give.
20:49:53 <fizzie> SoundHound seems to work (or at least run) with location, storage and telephone ("phone status and identity") disabled.
20:50:04 <shachaf> Mascarpone isn't even a dessert.
20:51:36 <shachaf> int-e: Well, according to that link, I should use my favourite number + 1.
20:51:38 <int-e> what's wrong is that there's essentially no penalty for apps that ask for excessive permissions.
20:51:42 <\oren\> i only work on Hound though not soundhound, and only the backend
20:51:44 * gamemanj hums "SoundHound Did Not Hear Any Music"
20:51:44 <shachaf> So as to avoid revealing any character defects.
20:52:29 <fizzie> Oh, the most annoying SoundHound feature I know of: it pops up notifications about songs apparently at random.
20:52:37 <int-e> so whenever a feature is added that might, in some obscure case, use a certain feature...
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20:53:58 <int-e> so... why doesn't it have accelerometer access... surely that must be useful to compensate for the doppler effect when you drop the phone while humming a song...
20:53:58 <zzo38> But can you set permissions in smaller pieces than that (such as to specify which directories it can see and which one it sees as root of the storage, and which internet services it can access and what proxies to use, and to fake device ID and so on)?
20:54:28 <gamemanj> zzo38: At some point it would become "too difficult for users to use"
20:54:44 <zzo38> Put it into the "Advanced" menu then.
20:54:44 <int-e> (but perhaps you don't have to ask permission for those?)
20:55:02 <\oren\> to difficult for[users to bother doing
20:55:04 <zzo38> Also recalibration of accelerometer per program
20:55:55 <int-e> > [2^n | n <- [0..]] :: [Int8]
20:55:57 <lambdabot> [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,-128,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0...
20:56:15 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: look at the chicago kent symposium which deals with narrow scope of the " round body mustang" and the beatles' " all you need is love" are both in use. fnord ( user fnord)
20:56:22 <shachaf> What if my favourite number is -1?
20:56:31 <shachaf> I've asked zzo38 what my favourite number is but he won't tell me.
20:56:46 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Wait, you use your favorite number + 1 where? According to what link?
20:57:00 <shachaf> The http link I posted above.
20:57:42 <fizzie> int-e: You don't need special permissions for the accelerometer. You do need the BODY_SENSORS permission "to access data from sensors that the user uses to measure what is happening inside his/her body, such as heart rate."
20:59:42 <fizzie> Of course in certain situations the accelerometer...
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21:17:24 <gamemanj> fizzie: eh, there are all sorts of permissions which could be evil in "certain situations"
21:19:10 <zzo38> That is why to add the ability to configure proxies and so on
21:20:05 <gamemanj> If the phone's accelerometer detects a certain special sequence of movements, then it should log this information for future use.
21:20:24 <int-e> "Android keylogger app – powered by accelerometer/gyroscope movements – revealed"
21:20:38 <int-e> 2011.. has it been that long
21:21:32 <olsner> nice, I was thinking about building one of those, glad it's already done so I don't have to
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21:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> The inverse (or something) of the pigeonhole principle is something I haven't heard talked about
21:28:54 <hppavilion[1]> If you have n pigeons in n+1 holes, then there is at least one empty hole
21:28:58 <\oren\> can i use kinect to set a password consisting of poses?
21:29:29 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: If you're willing to root the system, then yes.
21:31:00 <hppavilion[1]> Honestly, I wonder why there isn't legislation requiring legitimate owners of a computer system to be able to legally and easily (like, easy-to-find-guide-on-the-website easy) root the system.
21:31:41 <hppavilion[1]> Like, I don't see how it can be legal to prevent the legitimate owner of a system from doing whatever the hell they want with that system, as long as they aren't violating other laws in the process
21:34:01 <int-e> hollywood is too strong for that to happen in the US
21:34:21 <int-e> how will you protect movies on hardware that's actually run by its owners?
21:34:43 <int-e> oversimplifying, of course, but DRM is a driving factor behind all this
21:35:16 <zzo38> I was designing the computer machine and had the idea to use a combination of copyright and trademark laws to ensure that anyone who has such a computer (regardless of if it is a clone from another manufacturer or whatever) can legally and easily root the system (although you are unliekly to need to root it to do nearly all things, and to alter ROMs and so on requires a standard screwdriver)
21:35:38 <int-e> and vendors aren't too unhappy about the resulting customer lockin either
21:43:29 <pikhq> It's kinda bizarre how much clout Hollywood has relative to their actual wealth.
21:46:35 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], the phrasing of that makes it sound like a tautology
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23:07:47 <b_jonas> Is there a low-level git command that prints the .git directory for the current repository, and one that prints the directory associated with the current worktree?
23:08:13 <b_jonas> And I guess one that prints the root directory of the checkout also helps.
23:08:42 <b_jonas> Also, is there a website where I can see the full manual pages of git online, always for a recent version of git (more fresh than what I have installed)? I'm trying to look at https://git-scm.com/docs/git but that seems to be missing some generated part of the git(1) manpage where it lists commands.
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23:40:26 <fizzie> b_jonas: git rev-parse --show-toplevel
23:41:30 <fizzie> b_jonas: I meant: git rev-parse --git-dir
23:41:38 <fizzie> For the .git directory.
23:44:17 <fizzie> A bit curiously there seems to be no corresponding rev-parse option to show the GIT_WORK_TREE.
23:45:40 <fizzie> Maybe that's what the "top-level directory" means in this context.
23:56:56 <HackEgo> lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic.
00:19:16 <Sgeo> comex... isn't here
00:19:31 <\oren\> what the heck is "Jan Mayen"
00:20:56 <quintopia> (hurray for daytime that extents until 9pm)
00:22:11 <HackEgo> off by two//An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction.
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00:24:47 <quintopia> hmm. it is suddenly very important that i create an esolang such that "being locked in a matrix of solidity" is meaningful in terms of describing program state
00:25:14 <shachaf> `le/rn infinity/In finity we trust.
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00:26:06 <quintopia> `le/rn finity/Enjoy being locked in your matrix of finity.
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00:31:52 <quintopia> seems like he's having lots of them connection issues
00:34:55 <Koen_> connection tissues are important
00:41:25 <tswett> `le/rn shakespeare/And besicue and a saint and son the may bean the butcious and one them bear and may me for here the mance of my lord, and leave and thou arl of the prince and will not and and hour blood and the be buralont;
00:42:14 <Koen_> tswett: is your keyboard drunk?
00:48:45 <quintopia> it turned from day to evening in the time it took you to reply
00:50:22 <tswett> No no, that's from one of Shakespeare's plays.
00:51:25 <shachaf> No, it's from your matrix multiplier.
00:51:30 <tswett> A relatively obscure one: "The Man the Confent and the Confent and the Man the Man and the Man".
00:51:41 <tswett> Okay, I confess, it's from my matrix multiplier.
00:51:41 <shachaf> I don't think your thing is refined enough to go in wisdom/ yet.
00:52:00 <coppro> `addquote <shachaf> I don't think your thing is refined enough to go in wisdom/ yet.
00:52:03 <HackEgo> 1281) <shachaf> I don't think your thing is refined enough to go in wisdom/ yet.
00:52:07 <quintopia> is it just a shakespearean markov chain?
00:52:22 <shachaf> coppro: Did you see the discussion in #haskell about copprofunctors?
00:55:07 <tswett> quintopia: no, it's a neural net.
00:55:22 <shachaf> No, it's an artificial neural network.
00:55:41 <Phantom_Hoover> has anyone else in this channel looked at http://skullcode.com/ before?
00:57:05 <shachaf> Is that viewer thing looking at its own memory?
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00:59:40 <Koen_> Phantom_Hoover: is that some kind of mastermind-like riddle?
01:00:17 <Phantom_Hoover> something like that, it's a 32-bit VM with a hex editor loaded into it
01:01:10 <Phantom_Hoover> but if you scroll down to the address 00006666 there's a graphic with an exclamation mark in it, and if you overwrite that exclamation mark with a space or NUL then stuff starts happening
01:02:24 <fizzie> http://skullcode.com/bootstrap/hexboot.txt if you want to play the more dangerous game than just mess around in the browser.
01:03:02 <Phantom_Hoover> that thing's for x86, though, and a lot smaller than skullcode; it's a spiritual predecessor
01:05:28 <Phantom_Hoover> there's a block of encrypted data from 61b0 to 65b0; it's pretty easy to play along with it and get a password that'll decrypt the first 32 bytes, but i have no clue how to get at the rest
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01:26:09 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> I think GND is still not considered to be SafeHaskell anyway. <-- oh right.
01:26:46 <oerjan> @tell int-e anyway, turns out there's probably no exploit there.
01:27:48 <boily> oerjan: GND is the opposite end from Vcc hth
01:28:35 <boily> fungot: do you do electronics?
01:28:35 <fungot> boily: this is not the other way around... fnord/ home
01:28:45 <boily> fungot: apparently not.
01:28:45 <fungot> boily: i'm editing this down. user:guernseykidguernseykid 03:54, 26 june 2006 ( utc). small—preceding wikipedia:signaturesunsigned comment added by special:contributions/ fnord)
01:29:47 <boily> oerjan: when designing circuits, you have Vcc on one end, and GND at the other end. stuff go between them.
01:30:09 * oerjan doesn't really do electronics, obviously.
01:32:24 <boily> electronics aren't very much more complicated than that. Vcc is the plus end on your battery. I give you two tries to match what GND is :P
01:32:51 <quintopia> boily: you heard about super mario bros being pspace-complete?
01:32:56 <boily> nowadays, it's like: read the spreadsheet, supply the correct voltage, ?????, profit.
01:33:22 <boily> s/spread/spec/. damned time spent doing excel.
01:33:36 <oerjan> boily: i had already guessed what GND is.
01:33:42 <quintopia> boily: turns out you can make arbitrary circuits by opening or closing pathways by jumping to bump spinies on one or another side of a brick barrier
01:34:47 <quintopia> but the paper isn't presented until next week, and it isn't available anywhere
01:34:59 <boily> not even on arxiv?
01:36:12 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> The horror <-- i get the impression hppavilion[1] is a bit sensitive.
01:37:00 * boily horrifies hppavilion[1] with a pluridimensional mapole
01:46:39 <HackEgo> usual suspect//There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up.
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01:50:52 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/usual
01:51:06 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/usual suspect
01:52:12 <oerjan> on the one hand, that deserves a swat, on the other i didn't get the pun until now.
01:52:36 * oerjan gives shachaf an IOU for a swat.
01:53:06 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, you didn't get the pun until now?
01:53:13 <shachaf> That explains why I wasn't swatted.
01:53:22 <shachaf> I thought for sure that one would earn me a swat.
01:54:31 <Phantom_Hoover> i take it nobody else is very interested in skullcode then
01:54:34 <Quintopia> oerjan: do you have a mobile internettified swatter?
01:55:42 <oerjan> that's too many buzzwords tdnh
01:57:31 <Koen_> also too many acronyms
01:57:51 <Quintopia> you should try the new iSwatter. comes in a tall glass!
01:59:30 <oerjan> Koen_: in the wisdom hth
02:00:26 <Koen_> is that because round up might mean two things?
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02:09:20 <Quintopia> yes. i can't install/upgrade vmail because of a problem with its gem dependencies. i don't know enough about ruby and gems to fix it.
02:21:44 <HackEgo> wisdom/bezout \ wisdom/bézout \ wisdom/bezout's \ wisdom/bézout's \ wisdom/bezout's theorem \ wisdom/bézout's theorem
02:22:02 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bezout
02:22:08 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bézout
02:22:16 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bezout's
02:22:16 <Quintopia> also it appears that i can't install vim with clientserver flag enabled (or compile it from source) without installing most of gnome?
02:22:24 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bézout's
02:22:34 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bézout's theorem
02:22:38 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bezout's theorem
02:23:30 <oerjan> `` rm -v wisdom/b{e,é}zout{,\'s}
02:23:35 <HackEgo> removed `wisdom/bezout' \ removed `wisdom/bezout\'s' \ removed `wisdom/bézout' \ removed `wisdom/bézout\'s'
02:24:04 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas seriously, don't make 6 copies of the same wisdom entry.
02:26:49 <HackEgo> Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials.
02:27:08 <oerjan> Quintopia: sadly, symbolic links sometimes get broken.
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02:29:21 <oerjan> (not that i care in this case, it's a crappy entry.)
02:29:30 <tswett> Ī keep forgetting about mȳ macron propōsal.
02:29:58 <tswett> Whȳ dōn't Ī tȳpe līke this all the tīme?
02:34:19 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: goat sex hth
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03:36:13 <tswett> Kinda interesting looking at video memory in a hex editor.
03:37:25 <tswett> The thing is, of course, you're looking at a display of the display. Like pointing a TV camera at the TV that's showing the signal.
03:43:13 * oerjan soundly swats shachaf -----###
03:44:39 <oerjan> the speed of sound isn't that great
03:45:09 <shachaf> i,i faster than the speed of sound in a vacuum
03:51:15 <oerjan> @tell gamemanj spräk does not mean language hth
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04:01:11 <shachaf> I never know what it actually stands for.
04:11:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Z]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47098&oldid=47066 * 71.202.114.203 * (+129)
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04:42:13 <\oren\> what is the inverse of factorial called?
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04:54:57 <hppavilion[1]> Atoms literally pass through each other when going fast enough
04:55:05 <hppavilion[1]> That's it, I'm convinced. The universe is a simulation.
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05:04:46 <HackEgo> 1281) <shachaf> I don't think your thing is refined enough to go in wisdom/ yet.
05:05:11 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> I don't think your thing is refined enough to go in wisdom/ yet.
05:05:16 <shachaf> see, now you don't even need to worry about the double space
05:10:34 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You're only allowed to delete quotes after reading at least 5 quotes hth
05:11:18 <hppavilion[1]> (As in, for every 5 quotes you read in a 1-hour timespan, you may delete one of the quotes that you read)
05:13:11 <shachaf> oerjan: have you considered that some people don't want to have movie spoilers right in HackEgo hth
05:16:07 <shachaf> For example a decade ago I didn't even know about that spoiler.
05:16:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't think that rule applies to very recent quotes hth
05:16:55 <shachaf> `quote do they work.*zzo38
05:16:56 <HackEgo> 1056) <shachaf> Hmm, is an Electronic Signature in a PDF file a thing? <shachaf> How do they work? <zzo38> [1] Yes. [2] It doesn't.
05:19:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it lets you apply a sed script to a file hth
05:19:58 <hppavilion[1]> "This is generation 0. Every time you see this line in a signature, if your signature does not already contain such a line, add this line to your signature with the count multiplied by i and incremented by 1"
05:20:49 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `canary tmp' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
05:21:18 <HackEgo> cp: missing destination file operand after `canary tmp' \ Try `cp --help' for more information.
05:23:13 <hppavilion[1]> The first 100 possibilities are 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i 1+0i 1+1i 1i 0i
05:23:48 <HackEgo> 1244) <ais523> hppavilion1: there's not much point in `addquoting an `addquote unless the person who added it was somehow significant, or there's interesting context <ais523> because you can tell it was added from the fact that it's there \ 1255) <shachaf> What is an esolang? <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang \ 1256) <h
05:24:25 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: looks a bit repetive
05:24:26 <HackEgo> 598) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS. \ 608) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. \ 612) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has g
05:24:42 <HackEgo> 612) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks <shachaf> Well, in theory.
05:25:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I should probably think about complex numbers before using them.
05:25:24 <shachaf> First figure out the mplex numbers.
05:25:44 <shachaf> Or you can figure out the simplex numbers.
05:25:51 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Those are the split-complexes, aren't they?
05:26:03 <shachaf> Maybe a simplicial complex is made out of a simplex number and a complex number.
05:26:38 <shachaf> ørjan is an expert in simplicial complexes and homology and all sorts of things
05:26:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I do like smashing together different types of complex
05:26:45 <shachaf> I bet he's taught oerjan a thing or two.
05:26:50 <shachaf> @google simplicial complex
05:26:51 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplicial_complex
05:27:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: aren't you confusing complexes and hadrons
05:27:58 <\oren\> Agh everything is exploding
05:27:59 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What's a hadron? As in, the large kind that we like colliding?
05:28:18 <coppro> they aren't that large
05:28:35 <oerjan> they're larger than electrons, though
05:28:45 <coppro> it's all relative; good thing we have theories to handle that
05:28:59 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Um, then why do we have a machine to collide large hadrons?
05:29:11 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: because who doesn't like exotic explosions?
05:29:35 <\oren\> I don't like it when my fuel tanks explode
05:29:51 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: No one, but if hadrons weren't large, then a collider for large hadrons wouldn't be able to make exotic explosions.
05:30:29 <coppro> it's all got to do with the theory of relativity
05:30:38 <coppro> at relativistic speeds, hadrons are relatively large
05:30:40 <hppavilion[1]> Being able to use dvorak at a wpm so high you need scientific notation to express it is useless when you're at a qwerty keyboard
05:30:50 <coppro> that's why the collider needs to get them going so fast
05:31:22 <hppavilion[1]> I prefer the obscene hardon collider myself, though
05:31:38 <oerjan> we were trying not to make that joke, hppavilion[1]
05:32:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I at least found a mildly funny context for it
05:32:08 <coppro> fun fact: the LHC beam has about 362 MJ in it during the course of normal operation
05:32:32 <coppro> that's about $18 of electricity
05:32:53 <oerjan> those are some expensive dollars
05:35:19 * oerjan realizes he has a dirtier mind than hppavilion[1], then implodes.
05:35:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What? Do you have something against hellajoules, or did you think it was another pointless joke?
05:35:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yep, you thought it was dirty, when it wasn't
05:35:55 <\oren\> I know what oerjan was thinking
05:36:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm still trying to figure it out. My best guess is H=hand
05:36:36 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, I prefer the Large Boson Collider to the Large Hadron Collider any day
05:37:37 <hppavilion[1]> (OK, I have to ask: Is there a physics reason why Boson collisions aren't interesting? Or are they just impossible to deal with in the same way the LHC deals with Hadrons, so we had to make a choice and chose to make a Large Hadron Collider instead of a Large Boson Collider?)
05:38:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Of course, if it makes you feel better, my mind is almost certainly dirtier than yours; I just happen to have developed a filter that prevents me from saying 999.9999999999952‰ of things that come to mind
05:38:54 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you can collide composite nuclei that are bosons, i think.
05:39:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Wait, I forget, are Hadrons and Bosons mutually exclusive?
05:39:28 <oerjan> i think they are colliding lead, but i'm not sure whether they're bosonic or fermionic.
05:40:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, mesons are hadrons and bosons iirc. but you cannot keep them long enough to use them.
05:41:17 <hppavilion[1]> (A reference, of course, to Black Mesa from various Valve games I've never played)
05:41:45 <oerjan> basically protons, electrons, and their antiversions are the only charged subatomic particles that live long enough to be used, i think.
05:42:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't think there's one, they're usually named after greek letters.
05:43:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...question #492 on my Grand List of Questions: How the hell can there be such thing as an "Anti-neutron"? If an antiparticle has the opposite charge, and a neutron has no charge, how can there be such a thing as the opposite of 0?
05:45:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: btw i think some people are trying to collide photons, which are bosons.
05:46:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...collide photons? You have something moving at literally the speed of light, and which from its point of view the entire universe is in the same place, and you're trying to make them hit each other?
05:47:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the anti-neutron consists of 3 anti-quarks, each of which is the antiparticle of a corresponding quark in the neutron.
05:48:17 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder what we're going to call it when we find something smaller than a quark... (don't argue, you know it's going to happen)
05:48:25 <oerjan> (for a certain value of "consists". there are all manner of virtual gluons and quarks inside.)
05:50:31 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i didn't say getting photons to collide is easy. (and i'm not sure whether it was supposed to be within currently realistic technology or not.)
05:50:51 <oerjan> although you just to aim enough in the same spot, you'd think.
05:51:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Furthermore, you'd think that a couple photons would have collided at some point near a scientific instrument in the last decade or so
05:52:03 <hppavilion[1]> It doesn't seem like they could /not/ collide if it was possible
05:54:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: fwiw your question about anti-neutrons applies much better to anti-_neutrinos_. (in which case something called "chirality" related to spin becomes reversed)
05:55:25 <oerjan> but neutrinos are so weird some theorize they are their own antiparticles ("Majorana neutrinos")
06:00:53 <hppavilion[1]> Santorum: "If people thought about gay sex as much as I do, they'd understand how disgusting it is"
06:03:35 <shachaf> And vector spaces, I guess.
06:05:43 <oerjan> sounds a bit of a thin connection
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06:06:58 <shachaf> Well, it's not all that thin, because I was thinking of Chu spaces just now.
06:09:58 <oerjan> practically monofilamentary
06:13:17 <hppavilion[1]> "Would you rather be able to fly, but only at 0.000001c, or be able to breath underwater, but only for a millicentury"
06:13:42 <hppavilion[1]> ^^^good "would you rather" to differentiate those who do understand math/physics/SI/etc from those who do not
06:14:31 <shachaf> please reconsider the perspective that leads you to write a sentence like that twh
06:15:13 * hppavilion[1] desperately scrambles for a joke to make out of this
06:17:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I don't see which perspective I need to reconsider
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06:36:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: always decant cider
06:41:17 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Slow_as_Possible: A 640-year song
06:56:55 <hppavilion[1]> I can't help but read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari in a stereotypical Jamaican accent
06:58:23 <oerjan> obviously you should sing it to a reggae beat hth
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07:50:20 <b_jonas> oerjan: um, if symlinks don't work, then could we have some other mechanism for aliasing wisdoms then?
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08:05:16 <shachaf> I've wanted to set something like that up.
08:05:38 <shachaf> Wisdom redirects or something. Wisdom wildcards. Who even, like, knows, man.
08:24:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: so add a wisdom/location directory, and if wisdom/$foo is not found, wisdom/location/$foo is read and it gives the canonical name to redirect to
08:24:46 <shachaf> How is that an improvement over links?
08:24:55 <b_jonas> shachaf: not broken by revert
08:25:08 <shachaf> Oh, is that what it was about?
08:26:39 <oerjan> mind you, with any kind of links you have the problem that the two versions either may get accidentally out of sync, or accidentally edited together when the edit only fits one of them.
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09:51:32 <S1_p> Oh, the wisdomme is back. Yay.
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10:46:59 <b_jonas> Ok, so I think I want to set up an alias that can do a git checkout to an existing branch, but will absolutely refuse to do the file restore operation that the git checkout command also does.
10:47:30 <b_jonas> Also, I'd like it to print the previous branch or commit that was checked out, so it's easy to follow what happens.
10:49:58 <b_jonas> git checkout is just too dangerous as is
10:52:51 <b_jonas> I wonder how to convince git checkout to do this.
10:53:17 <fizzie> You'd want it to update what HEAD points at and maybe the index, but not do anything to the working tree?
10:53:38 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, I do want to do a full checkout, as in update the working tree and the index too
10:53:52 <fizzie> Oh, just disallow the variant of checkout that takes paths?
10:54:28 <b_jonas> git's syntax for objects and paths are horribly ugly, and there are magical syntaxes that apply to both but have a completely different meaning
10:54:47 <b_jonas> like, :/foo is both a path and an object, but the :/ means something completely different
10:54:58 <b_jonas> the syntax is just horrible
10:55:43 <b_jonas> svn does this much better, there the syntax of urls (pointing to a file in a repository, or a version of a file in a repository) have a syntax that's not only disjoint from that of paths, but also visually different
10:55:49 <b_jonas> so you can't accidentally confuse them
10:56:12 <b_jonas> and the git checkout interface is horrible because it combines a safer operation with a very unsafe irreversible operation
11:00:56 <fizzie> You might just allow -- in a script -- unambiguously-an-existing-branch-and-nothing-else options, and then fall back to being careful and using the raw command if you need to do something strange.
11:01:03 <fizzie> Hopefully that'd cover most branch-switches.
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11:51:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: I don't know, it's probably possible to solve in some way like that, but I'll have to do some careful testing on it
11:52:04 <b_jonas> I certainly don't want to checkout only existing branches. I often checkout -b to create a new branch (from HEAD or another commit), but the script can probably test for that.
11:52:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47099&oldid=40050 * 80.7.4.196 * (+5) Fixed a bug - & has a higher precedence than -, so the - following it had to be wrapped in <>
11:53:04 <b_jonas> hey, maybe I could make a script that does like (git checkout -B foo foo) to checkout branch foo
11:53:38 <b_jonas> but... why can't git just have at least an unambiguous long switch or command to force this, to make my life easier?
11:54:10 <b_jonas> and when I solve this, I'll still have to solve the interface of git reset and git branch, although for those the ambiguity is less dangerous and for git branch I think I already know the solution
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12:15:01 <boily> `relcome IvanSiber
12:15:32 <HackEgo> IvanSiber: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
12:18:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47100&oldid=47099 * 80.7.4.196 * (+1) Added a : to the end of write comment
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12:35:58 <b_jonas> Ok, I set up an alias such that (git switch foo) will do the same as (git checkout foo --). This works even with multiple arguments, and shouldn't checkout paths, unless I explicitly pass "--" as an argument.
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12:39:07 <gamemanj> ok, so my previous messing around during this week has finally come to a conclusion:
12:39:10 <gamemanj> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/kyouma/index.html
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12:44:08 <rntz> tswett: "i,i" means roughly "I have nothing to contribute, I just like saying", i.e. it's a prefix for off-topic one-liners
12:44:30 <rntz> comes from CMU zephyr (an old messaging protocol), I think
12:45:54 <HackEgo> Oona's Blackguard \ 1B \ Creature -- Faerie Rogue \ 1/1 \ Flying \ Each other Rogue creature you control enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on it. \ Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card. \ MOR-U \ \ Oona's Gatewarden \ (u/b) \ Creature -- Faerie
12:46:00 <HackEgo> Oona, Queen of the Fae \ 3(u/b)(u/b)(u/b) \ Legendary Creature -- Faerie Wizard \ 5/5 \ Flying \ {X}{(u/b)}: Choose a color. Target opponent exiles the top X cards of his or her library. For each card of the chosen color exiled this way, put a 1/1 blue and black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying onto the battlefield. \ SHM-R, MMA-R, V11-M
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13:18:52 <fizzie> Oona is the 175th most common female name in Finland, with ~7500 people.
13:19:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47101&oldid=47100 * 80.7.4.196 * (+105) Grammar and clarification
13:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47102&oldid=47101 * 80.7.4.196 * (-1) Changed associativity of &
13:22:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47103&oldid=47102 * 80.7.4.196 * (-2) Bugfix - removed trailing :
13:29:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47104&oldid=47103 * 80.7.4.196 * (+173) Clarification about :
13:30:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47105&oldid=47104 * 80.7.4.196 * (+1) Bugfix - removed trailing :
13:31:40 <gamemanj> I'm getting the feeling asm.js should be classed as esoteric simply because of the crazy type checking
13:35:19 <gamemanj> If I'm trying to be nice, I'd say asm.js is a version of LLVM for the web, but now the type annotations are weirder.
13:36:21 <gamemanj> Eh, LLVM's relatively nice, it's like asm.js but you write in actual human-understandable string names for the type names instead of having to understand the exact details of how + modifies it's parameters.
13:36:50 <gamemanj> Then again again, people just stackalloc everything anyway.
13:36:57 <Phantom_Hoover> asm.js can basically only work with 32-bit ints, that's one big difference
13:37:38 <gamemanj> Wonder how they're going to weasel their way out of that one when it inevitably reaches the point where applications are limited
13:38:17 <gamemanj> Ah, you mean browser vendors will just detect this sort of thing?
13:39:05 <Phantom_Hoover> no it'll just only be used to write fast code operating on 32-bit ints
13:40:10 <gamemanj> Now then, time to go use 32MiB instead of 16 because asm.js wants me to jump up to the next power of two to avoid a bounds check. Seriously.
13:40:36 <gamemanj> (The ironic thing is that I added the 8 extra bytes because this is how to avoid bounds checks on BytePusher)
13:41:32 <gamemanj> ...either that or I technically violate specification...
13:41:46 <gamemanj> ...eh, violating specification it is.
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13:44:29 <gamemanj> ...and now the browser gives me a second annoyance... "unable to cache asm.js in synchronous scripts"???
13:45:23 <gamemanj> I sincerely hope that the lack of caching refers to if I happen to compile the same function twice, and not if I happen to reuse the same function instance...
13:45:26 <Phantom_Hoover> the skullcode vm is in asm.js, i actually find it a lot more readable than the minified JS that defines all the interface code
13:45:44 <gamemanj> Well, there is readable asm.js out there
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13:48:50 <gamemanj> Post-ASM.JS version of JIT, performance seems to be...worse than with the Pre-ASM.JS version of the JIT, judging by the now-stuttering audio...
13:49:21 <gamemanj> Though it does keep having little bits where it runs normally...
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13:50:21 <gamemanj> Like, audio was always this "clicky", but it didn't outright stop as much. Good thing I have a backup of the pre-ASM.JS'd JIT.
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13:51:38 <gamemanj> It seems it's actually not compiling more segments - it's literally just the overhead from running the asm.js.
13:52:30 <gamemanj> I knew there'd be some entry/exit overhead due to the nature of the JIT, which would offset the benefit somewhat, but this bad?
13:52:32 <Phantom_Hoover> you are running this on a JS interpreter which can compile the asm.js into machine code, right?
13:52:42 <gamemanj> Firefox. Hence I was getting asm.js warnings.
13:53:02 <gamemanj> but it doesn't seem to have helped that much...
13:53:14 <gamemanj> It's saying "successfully compiled asm.js code".
13:55:37 <gamemanj> I should probably explain what's going on
13:56:01 <gamemanj> That JIT compiles segments of BytePusher code into JavaScript
13:56:13 <gamemanj> I then changed it to write it into asm.js
13:56:19 <gamemanj> Pre-ASM.JS: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/kyouma/index.html
13:56:23 <gamemanj> Post-ASM.JS: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/kyouma-asm/index.html
13:57:10 <gamemanj> What I at least notice is that although pre-asm.js, it's stuttery, once the VM loads up segments most of the problems are just due to my bad audio code.
13:57:26 <gamemanj> Post-asm.js, it just doesn't stop stuttering.
13:59:11 <gamemanj> A possibility is that perhaps the asm.js entry overhead causes the "which segment should be used for execution" code to be a lot slower, causing issues.
13:59:38 <gamemanj> This means that the issue should be resolved by making a non-ASM.JS copy of that code.
14:00:33 <gamemanj> (note: Multiple versions of one segment may be compiled for different circumstances. I assumed the "which segment to use" routine would benefit from asm.js, but I may well be wrong.)
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14:08:02 <Akaibu> yo gamemanj do you know about jsMESS?
14:08:12 <Akaibu> that might help with what ever your doing
14:08:24 <gamemanj> Akaibu: Nope, but I can guess. And anyway, I'm messing with BytePusher, so...
14:08:54 <Akaibu> https://github.com/jsmess/jsmess www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Javascript_Mess
14:12:03 <gamemanj> Well, I'm not using emscripten ^.^;
14:13:31 <Akaibu> good to take tips though gamemanj
14:13:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47106&oldid=47105 * 80.7.4.196 * (+3079) Finally fleshed out library semantics
14:15:25 <gamemanj> True, but this is a JIT, not a standard interpreter (I already tried that with hand-written asm.js and got pretty good performance from it - I'm JITing things to try and improve on that.). If someone had a guide to asm.js efficiency in there, then that would be useful.
14:17:27 <gamemanj> Basically, of the 3, performance seems to be so far: [asm.js interpreter] > [Javascript-compiling JIT] > [asm.js-compiling JIT]
14:18:42 <Phantom_Hoover> wait so you're regularly JITing blocks of bytepusher into asm.js? yeah i expect it's the startup overhead then
14:19:01 <gamemanj> Well, at first there's obviously segment compilation overhead
14:19:10 <gamemanj> But then there are times when it's slow and it's not compiling any segments
14:21:47 <gamemanj> For example, during the initial startup phase, when it's generating tables (the program's 32k) it goes through the "base set" initialization, and that's relatively fast with not much segment compilation, followed by the first page of the "banks" initialization, which does tons of segment compilation, followed by the rest which does almost none.
14:22:20 <gamemanj> Then, for the first few letters it displays on screen it's still compiling bits of the font renderer...
14:22:36 <gamemanj> But after that, it shouldn't be as slow as it ends up being.
14:22:50 <gamemanj> Compiled segments value drops.
14:28:16 <gamemanj> Ok, uploaded new version, this time it has "CS" and "F" stats (CS is how many segments it's compiled so far this frame, F is which frame the VM is on.)
14:29:44 <gamemanj> It's a bit telling that the asm.js version is laggy during the first 4 seconds while the non-asm.js version isn't as laggy, even though CS:0 for all but a few frames...
14:30:16 <gamemanj> I must be making a very serious mistake in how I write my asm.js...
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17:27:50 <HackEgo> super effective? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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17:34:39 <int-e> hmm a supercritical hit
17:35:55 <\oren\> is that the same as a its super effective critical hit?
17:36:15 <gamemanj> Since installing Unifont, my ability to see the symbols you post has increased by orders of magnitude. My ability to understand them has not.
17:51:13 <int-e> \oren\: I was looking for a connection to supercritical fluids
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19:21:31 <hppavilion[1]> From the Wikipedia article on "Computus", the family of algorithms one uses to calculate the date of Easter because one's church is a massive pain in the ass and doesn't just choose a fixed, symbolic date:
19:21:33 <hppavilion[1]> "The last limit arises from the fact that the crucifixion was considered to have happened on the fourteenth (the eve of the Passover) and the resurrection therefore on the sixteenth."
19:21:54 <hppavilion[1]> Um... Christianity? Are you sure you can really math?
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19:39:02 <hppavilion[1]> Instead of "The more you know", we (the population of the internet) should use "the less you look like a dumbass"
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20:00:19 <Koen_> that would make a whole sentence!
20:03:51 <int-e> in two different ways
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21:35:21 -!- shachaf has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidity matrices, esoteric programming language design, and font forging | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
21:36:25 <HackEgo> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:36:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bye: not found
21:38:45 <gamemanj> At some point someone ought to port a text adventure to HackEgo...
21:39:11 <gamemanj> That is, make it save on input, and reload when given a line of input
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21:45:47 <\oren\> i once was a font forager now am a font forger
21:48:11 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz
21:48:22 <b_jonas> wasn't there a fourth one?
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21:49:29 <Moon_> gamemanj, hw about me?
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21:50:05 <Moon_> [16:38] <gamemanj> At some point someone ought to port a text adventure to HackEgo... [16:39] <gamemanj> That is, make it save on input, and reload when given a line of input
21:50:13 <gamemanj> Well, it would be fun, if you want to ^.^ (though it might end up playing like Twitch Plays <insert game here>)
21:50:17 <b_jonas> \oren\: by the way, I just checked http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , and strangely the webfont doesn't show up for me. but it's probably a problem on my side again
21:50:37 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I can confirm the font is visible, and I do not have the font installed.
21:50:37 <Moon_> ill allow save selection for ease of use :P
21:50:52 <gamemanj> However, there is one major issue with the font...
21:51:35 <Moon_> is that a be- wait thats infinity, i play dwarf fortress too much
21:53:16 * gamemanj disappeared in a puff of smoke (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
21:53:31 <\oren\> gamemanj: wait did i nitmove those yet? shit i must[have firgotten
21:54:17 <\oren\> uhhh... how did he get it to say that?
21:54:48 <Moon_> shachaf, calm down >_>
21:54:59 <Moon_> no need to spam hackego
21:55:09 <\oren\> it said gamemanj disappeared in a puff of smoke ping timeout
21:55:10 <gamemanj> oren: Aha. Your chat client doesn't colour the difference between quits and /me.
21:55:24 <gamemanj> oren: I can tell simply by the fact you were fooled by it!
21:56:27 <HackEgo> nœd//Nœd is Norwegian for distress.
21:56:27 <HackEgo> brick//Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
21:56:31 * Moon_ Moon_ [4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138] has quit [Bia]
21:56:37 <\oren\> my crap ssh app doesnt support the advqnced colors
21:56:54 <Moon_> i ruined my chance
21:57:10 <\oren\> im on my phone right now
21:57:37 <Moon_> actually: what os/
21:57:39 <\oren\> android samsung galaxy lte
21:58:01 <Moon_> ok: termux -> weechat -> #esoteric
21:58:15 <Moon_> thats the esoteric way :P
21:59:40 <\oren\> i wish i had a physical keybiatd on this phone
21:59:58 <Moon_> termux is a terminal emulator
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22:00:09 <\oren\> then i could type with less mistakes
22:02:43 <\oren\> ifeally it would have a full 104 key keyboard and flip open
22:06:13 <int-e> and a d key that's exactly where you need it?
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22:07:58 <\oren\> aaaaaaaaaasqaqqaaaaaaaaaasassaaaaaassaaaaaqaq
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23:14:51 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well yeah, but we don't talk about edge cases
23:16:05 <shachaf> I have a very fast edge detection algorithm.
23:16:20 <hppavilion[1]> If the first time derivative of a changing position is its velocity and the second is acceleration, what's the third time derivative?
23:16:21 <shachaf> It's very accurate, except in edge cases.
23:16:41 <HackEgo> Jerk is the integral of snap.
23:17:55 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, it was explained in literally the very next sentence
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23:18:24 <shachaf> (that's what the kids say these days, right?)
23:19:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Bearing says that occasionally, but nobody else
23:19:28 <hppavilion[1]> But what's the negative first derivative of a changing position?
23:19:39 <hppavilion[1]> Oh wait, negative derivatives are probably integrals
23:19:56 <shachaf> oh man, you read the spoilers
23:19:58 <boily> hppavellon[1]. have you discovered the wonderful world of fractional derivatives?
23:20:03 <shachaf> you'd have more fun if you didn't read the spoilers
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23:21:39 <boily> hppavilion[1]: imagine, Morgan Freeman doing an ASMR video about derivatives.
23:22:04 * hppavilion[1] later wakes up to find that his brain is completely depleted of endorphines
23:23:03 <quintopia> then absity, abseleration, abserk, ...
23:27:01 <hppavilion[1]> boily: There are imaginary derivatives, but they're useless in physics (as far as we know mwahahahahaha)
23:28:25 <boily> everything's useful in physics. physics is engineering, and engineering is the Essence of Life hth
23:29:41 <hppavilion[1]> I should probably read about fractional derivatives first though
23:30:45 <quintopia> i can't imagine what a 2D space with diff/int on some axis would even be about
23:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Of course, 2-time is interesting too. 2,2-spacetime, perhaps?
23:32:00 <quintopia> http://jlms.oxfordjournals.org/content/s2-3/2/241.extract "Mellin transforms" I'm already lost
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23:51:10 <shachaf> oerjan: There should be join messages in IRC.
23:51:19 <shachaf> So I could figure out what the dual of "Nite" is.
23:52:28 <boily> I don't think join messages are good. I'd have to find the dual of a chicken.
23:52:46 <shachaf> Did you logread my CHICKEN message the other day?
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23:53:15 <quintopia> boily: do you manually the chickens? or script?
23:53:46 <boily> quintopia: manually.
23:53:51 <boily> it's a craft! an art!
23:54:26 <oerjan> chickencraft, the game where you build things from chickens.
23:55:26 <oerjan> such as the great pyramids of chicken itza.
23:55:58 * boily doublethwacks \oren\ and oerjan. 0.75 and 0.99 shachafs.
23:56:08 <quintopia> i could build an academic cs paper from chickens...
23:57:17 <oerjan> boily: hey i made two!
23:57:34 <oerjan> i guess the first might not really count as a pun.
23:58:03 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
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23:58:25 <boily> oerjan: I didn't count the first.
23:58:28 <shachaf> What precision do you measure with?
23:58:31 <oerjan> it's so hard to get above 1. i think he might consider it like the c of relativity.
23:58:53 <boily> shachaf: about that.
23:58:57 <quintopia> hmm, 6' by 12 kg? that doesn't sound possible to do two doublethwacks in a row without inducing severe exhaustion or broken radii in the thwacker
23:59:02 * boily flails around a gesture of precision
23:59:04 <oerjan> . o O ( so what i need is a _really_ tachy pun )
23:59:18 <shachaf> boily: How many usual suspects would you say there are?
23:59:31 <boily> that was a good one :D
23:59:33 <quintopia> oerjan: that was only a 0.3 on the tachometer
00:00:58 * quintopia steals some wibbledy-wobbledy chickens from boily
00:01:16 <HackEgo> There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up.
00:01:51 <quintopia> shachaf: but who are they? you, oerjan, and ... who?
00:02:07 <shachaf> I never claimed to be among the usual suspects.
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00:02:26 <shachaf> That depends on who's doing the suspecting.
00:02:42 * boily reverse-roundhose thwacks shachaf for calibration purposes
00:02:46 <quintopia> anyone would suspect you if the crime is punning
00:03:45 <quintopia> as they say you say "a good pun is its own risk"
00:04:00 <shachaf> What do they say about fun puns?
00:04:11 <HackEgo> funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
00:04:23 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:04:26 <oerjan> i think hppavilion[1] is also usually suspicious.
00:04:35 <boily> hppavilion[1] is also frightened.
00:05:09 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I DID NOTHING WHEN DOING SOMETHING WOULD HAVE SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES
00:05:10 <quintopia> boily: can you thwack hppavilion[1] for his failure to accomplish anything
00:05:12 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i didn't say i had proof
00:05:15 <shachaf> quintopia: Punning is a crime?
00:05:30 <oerjan> i just have 0.9 proof.
00:05:53 <hppavilion[1]> IT ACTUALLY TOOK MORE EFFORT NOT TO DO SOMETHING THAN TO DO IT, IF I'M BEING HONEST
00:05:55 * boily capitally swings his mapole at hppavilion[1]
00:05:58 <shachaf> My object all sublime, / I shall achieve in time -- / To let the punning fit the crime, / The punning fit the crime
00:06:25 <hppavilion[1]> OF COURSE, IS "DOING NOTHING" JUST DOING THE THING THAT TAKES THE LEAST EFFORT, THEREFOR MEANING THAT THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT IS INVALID? I DON'T KNOW, FRANK. I DON'T KNOW.
00:06:26 <quintopia> shachaf: well, no, but it does sometimes require apology: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/08/punning-police-say-sorry-egg-theft-appeal-lancashire
00:07:13 <quintopia> oerjan: i have 60 proof. want some?
00:07:29 <shachaf> Oh, right, I guess it's 0.45% ABV.
00:07:46 <oerjan> shachaf: is that a quote?
00:08:14 <shachaf> http://themargins.net/anth/19thc/gilbert.html
00:11:50 <quintopia> shachaf: have you read that: https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/2786lw/wp_in_a_world_where_puns_are_illegal_one_man
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00:16:48 <oerjan> i've read that the mikado is not racist hth
00:17:00 <shachaf> quintopia: seems unremarkable to me hth
00:17:23 <quintopia> shachaf: as are all old reddit posts, yes
00:17:41 <oerjan> also that a japanese crown prince once was disappointed that it wasn't playing when he visited london, because they were afraid he'd be insulted.
00:18:41 <shachaf> oerjan; i read that it is racist hth
00:18:47 <shachaf> admittedly that was just now in this channel
00:19:54 <quintopia> as much as i like the mikado, i find it hard not to find it belittling of a culture. dressing white people up like they're japanese is hardly different from blackface is it?
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00:26:31 <Phantom__Hoover> quintopia, well, like, there's some very significant context with blackface
00:27:08 <quintopia> you don't think european colonialism is significant context?
00:34:12 <quintopia> it's been a while since i've seen the play, but i get the sense the attitude of the british characters toward the "Japanese" characters was much like their attitude toward all those in nations they colonized
00:34:48 <quintopia> even the character names seem somewhat belittling
00:38:38 <Phantom__Hoover> at what point in your history of the world do the british colonise japan
00:39:27 <quintopia> at what point in your history of this channel do i claim the british colonise japan
00:41:14 <oerjan> quintopia: are you confusing with madama butterfly, or something
00:42:42 <quintopia> i don't think i've ever seen madama butterfly.
00:42:58 <oerjan> i dunno. i've seen neither :P
00:43:12 <oerjan> but afaiu there _are_ no british characters in the mikado.
00:45:12 <boily> I saw Madama Butterfly at the opera. it's one of the best.
00:45:46 <quintopia> oerjan: clearly it's been too long since i saw it
00:46:07 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f1k14GQmNE
00:46:35 <quintopia> anyone know how to set the spellcheck for OO writer to british spelling?
00:46:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ~.: not found
00:48:25 <oerjan> i guess the names are belittling though. btw i don't think "titipu" is a possible japanese word, is it?
00:51:44 <Phantom__Hoover> i think the premise is that it's a satire of british culture disguised as a very lazy charicature of japan
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01:02:56 <oerjan> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
01:04:41 <boily> fizzie: IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÅAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
01:10:03 * oerjan thinks solving this Towers puzzle was a little too backtracky.
01:18:01 <\oren\> I liked Madame Butterfly when I saw it at the four seasons.
01:18:59 <\oren\> My vocal music teacher got us cheap tickets and insisted that every guy who went wear a tux.
01:19:32 <\oren\> I went to like 10 operas in high school.
01:19:36 <fizzie> Our interwebs went down for a moment there.
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01:21:27 <fungot> boily: by the way, what's srfi? i seem to have
01:21:32 <oerjan> . o O ( wearing a penguin suit sounds a bit harsh )
01:21:35 <boily> fungot: you seem to do.
01:21:35 <fungot> boily: " he's ordering a weak martini, and the
01:21:46 <boily> fungot: bartender refuses to give it?
01:21:47 <fungot> boily: oh yea that makes much more sense, polish or perl..."
01:22:02 <boily> . o O ( a polish martini? with a gherkin floating in it? )
01:24:06 * boily weakly thwacks oerjan in stereo, with deliberate movements and closeups [intentional] [unintelligible whispering] [scratching] [brush] [2:42]
01:25:31 * oerjan has a feeling he doesn't get some reference
01:26:19 * oerjan wonders if he should follow /r/outoftheloop
01:26:49 <boily> I'm watching ASMR videos. it's relaxing ^^
01:30:47 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spore//echo 1 > /hackenv/tmp/spline; cat > /hackenv/tmp/spout; lines="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout)" | awk '{print $1}'; echo "$lines lines"
01:30:57 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spam//line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
01:31:46 <HackEgo> <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
01:31:58 <HackEgo> <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order.
01:31:58 <HackEgo> <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop
01:32:56 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spore//echo 1 > /hackenv/tmp/spline; cat > /hackenv/tmp/spout; lines="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo "$lines lines"
01:33:18 <HackEgo> 6) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that.
01:33:19 <HackEgo> 14) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
01:33:20 <HackEgo> 17) <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste
01:37:20 <HackEgo> 18) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste"
01:37:36 <HackEgo> 22) PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: <oerjan> sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers
01:37:51 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spore//echo 1 > /hackenv/tmp/spline; cat "${1-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; lines="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo "$lines lines"
01:40:41 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
01:41:48 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe this thing is a little too spammy.
01:42:22 <HackEgo> p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1))
01:43:30 <quintopia> spam prints random lines from a spored thing?
01:43:54 <shachaf> It prints them in order, in principle.
01:44:21 <shachaf> fizzie didn't like \ newlines, I believe.
01:44:32 <shachaf> So this is for fizzie, who probably likes spam much more.
01:46:46 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spam//line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
01:46:52 <HackEgo> 1/1:F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
01:47:11 <HackEgo> 1/1280:* Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there.
01:47:16 <HackEgo> 2/1280:<Bike> Usually I'd use Rankine, but the fucking weather doesn't support it.
01:47:43 <shachaf> `mkx bin/spore//echo 1 > /hackenv/tmp/spline; cat "${1-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam
01:47:52 <HackEgo> 1/1280:<kmc> i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages)
01:47:55 <HackEgo> 2/1280:<hagb4rd> jesus, yes.. he was human <hagb4rd> and that is fantastic <hagb4rd> more than beeing able to speak with fish.. like seaman does
01:48:07 <HackEgo> 3/1280:<elliott> oerjan: if the answer is no then it might as well be yes
01:48:51 <shachaf> There you go, one line saved.
01:52:46 <oerjan> <boily> oerjan: bonkers? <-- i think google translate probably failed at that point.
01:52:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bin: cannot execute: Is a directory
01:52:51 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: To criticize people who make that stupid joke the same way I probably would
01:52:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gin: not found
01:53:03 <oerjan> boily: it's all rather broken norwegian.
01:53:09 <b_jonas> shachaf: you didn't delete it
01:53:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: min: not found
01:53:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tin: not found
01:53:17 <b_jonas> `bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/echo hello, world
01:53:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/echo: No such file or directory
01:53:21 <boily> oerjan: ah, like broken French :D
01:53:36 <shachaf> this is seriously messing up my terminal tdnh
01:53:39 <oerjan> (although i doubt GT is responsible for the missing accents...)
01:54:14 <oerjan> <shachaf> Hmm, maybe this thing is a little too spammy. <-- you think?
01:54:27 <HackEgo> 4/1280:* Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there.
01:54:34 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, that was the testing phase
01:54:40 <shachaf> Obviously it's going to be spammy during testing.
01:54:51 <oerjan> <shachaf> i see no problems here <-- heh, genuine race conditions
01:55:05 <shachaf> oerjan: What, like the Mikado?
01:55:28 <shachaf> oerjan: Anyway if people are going to be doing tail -n +n etc. they might as well spore it.
01:55:57 <HackEgo> 5/1280:<oerjan> shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? <shachaf> No. <oerjan> whew <oerjan> we don't have room for more esolangers there. <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland? <oerjan> no <shachaf> Whew. <shachaf> We don't have room for more esolangers there.
01:56:07 <shachaf> We just need a command to merge a bunch of lines together HackEgo-style and wrap at the IRC line length limit.
01:58:59 <HackEgo> 6/1280:<boily> it's raining in newcastle, therefore the elliotts are distinct. <tswett> boily's Newcastle Theorem.
01:59:13 <boily> I like that `spam tool :D
01:59:56 <oerjan> actually bonkers is probably used a bit in norwegian.
02:00:37 <shachaf> oerjan: What was the line length limit again?
02:00:42 <shachaf> I think you computed it once.
02:01:35 <HackEgo> 2/12:if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists.
02:01:51 <HackEgo> paste is /hackenv/bin/paste \ paste is /usr/bin/paste
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02:02:25 <HackEgo> tswett tswett oerjan oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia
02:03:48 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Anyway if people are going to be doing tail -n +n etc. they might as well spore it. <-- ideally you'd merge into 350 byte chunks hth
02:04:05 <shachaf> oerjan: i already said that hth
02:05:36 <oerjan> shachaf: i think i just answered your question before getting to it in backscroll hth
02:05:38 <shachaf> `` cat bin/paste | /usr/bin/paste -s -d
02:05:39 <HackEgo> â#!/bin/bashâif [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists.then¤ trueâelse PASTENUM="$RANDOM"¤â mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste¤ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM"â cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"fi
02:07:11 <shachaf> `` cat bin/paste | tr '\n' ''
02:07:12 <HackEgo> â#!/bin/bashâif [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists.âthenâ trueâelseâ PASTENUM="$RANDOM"ââ mkdir -p $HACKENV/pasteââ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM"â cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"âfiâ
02:07:19 <shachaf> HackEgo: you are not helping
02:08:21 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/paste
02:08:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47107&oldid=46694 * 172.249.47.98 * (-18) Golfier!
02:08:46 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm trying to replace newlines in order to create the 350-byte chunks.
02:09:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47108&oldid=47107 * 172.249.47.98 * (+13) /* brainfuck */
02:09:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47109&oldid=47108 * 172.249.47.98 * (+11) /* brainfuck */
02:10:10 <shachaf> oerjan: By the way, I wonder whether rnooodl goes wrong with certain 4-byte UTF-8 characters that have the same continuation byte repeated three times.
02:10:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47110&oldid=47109 * 172.249.47.98 * (-13) /* brainfuck */
02:11:44 <oerjan> shachaf: thausible. restrict it to ascii?
02:12:08 <shachaf> Well, there's no particularly good ASCII character for it.
02:12:29 <shachaf> And both of the commands I use replace newlines with a character, rather than a string.
02:12:42 <oerjan> shachaf: why not just leave it as newline
02:12:48 <shachaf> I don't even know if it's processing characters or bytes.
02:12:52 <shachaf> oerjan: Then how will spam work?
02:13:07 <shachaf> You're suggesting that spam should never work line-at-a-time.
02:13:35 <oerjan> i wasn't actually getting that point until now, but yeah, it might not.
02:13:37 <shachaf> I was thinking there'd be a separate command that turns a newlined string into a string with 350-byte lines containing newline replacements.
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02:14:33 <shachaf> Well, I guess I'll leave it in your capable hands.
02:14:43 <oerjan> you could just use " \ ", that's what HackEgo does anyway
02:14:54 <oerjan> i have no intention to code this.
02:15:01 <shachaf> OK, but <shachaf> And both of the commands I use replace newlines with a character, rather than a string.
02:15:09 <shachaf> come on, it's just a bit of bash
02:15:52 <shachaf> it's not like exploiting type system bugs
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02:20:29 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Um... Christianity? Are you sure you can really math? <-- what's the problem with that?
02:21:09 <oerjan> referring to <hppavilion[1]> "The last limit arises from the fact that the crucifixion was considered to have happened on the fourteenth (the eve of the Passover) and the resurrection therefore on the sixteenth."
02:23:07 <oerjan> (i'm just wondering where hppavilion[1] thinks the math error is)
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02:23:42 <shachaf> oerjan: Is 350 the total length actually printable by HackEgo?
02:24:19 <oerjan> shachaf: if it's ascii. someone said it's actually different if there are other unicode characters.
02:25:43 <oerjan> that is, it's 350 chars but if that's larger than 350 bytes it might get cut off at the actual irc limit.
02:26:02 <shachaf> OK, I'll construct this in /msg, I guess.
02:26:09 <oerjan> or well, probably codepoints.
02:27:28 <shachaf> `` echo $'#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nN=330\nname = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin"\nwith open(name, "r") as f:\n data = f.read().replace("\\n", " \\\\ ")\nfor i in range(0, len(data), N):\n print data[i:i+N]\n' > bin/distort; chmod +x bin/distort
02:27:57 <HackEgo> 1/475:<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmmmmmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKenne
02:28:04 <HackEgo> 2/475:thR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. \ <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ <SimonRC> TODO: sex life \ <Madelon>
02:29:03 <shachaf> `mkx bin/sport//distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore
02:29:32 <HackEgo> 1/475:<fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. \ Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism
02:29:36 <HackEgo> 2/475:, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ \ <quintopia> who is guido van rossum <olsner> you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties \ <Taneb> Just goes to show, the Beatles are more interesting than green vegetables. \ <Madelon> both of you,
02:29:41 -!- adu has joined.
02:29:59 <HackEgo> 1/1:#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = f.read().replace("\n", " \\ ") \ for i in range(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N] \ \
02:30:34 <shachaf> `` echo -n $'#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nN=330\nname = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin"\nwith open(name, "r") as f:\n data = f.read().replace("\\n", " \\\\ ")\nfor i in range(0, len(data), N):\n print data[i:i+N]\n' > bin/distort; chmod +x bin/distort
02:30:40 <HackEgo> 1/1:#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = f.read().replace("\n", " \\ ") \ for i in range(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N] \
02:30:49 <oerjan> why do you put 330 instead of 350
02:31:18 <shachaf> I wanted to allow for 12345/20000:
02:31:24 <shachaf> And then I subtracted a few more just in case.
02:31:42 <shachaf> In fact I'd appreciate it if you did jam it up to the right value.
02:32:00 <shachaf> `sled bin/distort//s range xrange
02:32:04 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = f.read().replace("\n", " \\ ") \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
02:32:38 <oerjan> incidentally that numbering scheme does not work very well with quotes which have their own numbers...
02:32:57 <HackEgo> 1/495:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmmmmmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warr
02:33:02 <shachaf> `` allquotes | shuf | sport
02:33:04 <HackEgo> 1/495:154) <Sgeo> How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, they're cheap? \ 346) <elliott_> I'm not even going to try and understand what you're proposing. <oerjan> i understand it perfectly. it's completely nuts. \ 1229) <oerjan> i guess norway just isn
02:33:08 <HackEgo> 2/495:'t cold \ 1235) <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django \ 1030) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone \ 1036) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has int
02:33:13 <HackEgo> 3/495:eresting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. \ 325) <zzo38> Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself \ 483) <Phantom_Hoover> I keep asking random people for "friendship <thing>" and it's crippling \ 811) <Fiora> omg <Fiora> that JIT is really amazing [...] <Gregor> I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a
02:33:17 <oerjan> also, if anyone manages to use more than 2 digits before the slash, they'll probably be kickbanned hth
02:33:37 <shachaf> Well, you can fast-forward with echo n > tmp/spline
02:34:23 <shachaf> `mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /tmp/hackenv/spline
02:34:31 <shachaf> `mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /tmp/hackenv/spline; spam
02:34:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/speek: line 1: /tmp/hackenv/spline: No such file or directory \ 4/495:warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. \ 78) <ais523> theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along \ 1064) <kmc> ah yes, like the parable of jesus feeding the masses with expired jell-o
02:34:39 <oerjan> shachaf: you're splitting in the middle of lines? that could give problems with unicode.
02:34:44 <HackEgo> 5/495:elliott> they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two \ 1014) <elliott> sometimes i wake up and my name has grown more consonants \ 286) <crystal-cola> I just thought you might have meant the Ramanujan tau and I was WOAH he weilds heavy weapons \ 42) <GregorR> ??? <GregorR>
02:34:57 <shachaf> `mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /hackenv/tmp/spline; spam
02:35:03 <HackEgo> 495/495:'t exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it. \ 63) <fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli. \
02:35:13 <shachaf> oerjan: feel free to fix it to not do that twh
02:35:56 <shachaf> oerjan: No sarcasm or anything there. It would help.
02:36:05 <shachaf> I mean, not that "twh" is ever sarcastic or anything.
02:36:50 <shachaf> If you wanted to be nice you could split it on a natural word or newline boundary if it happened to be near the end.
02:42:07 <shachaf> Or even more than that, really.
02:42:43 <shachaf> Say, just write out as many lines as can fit without breaking.
02:45:25 <shachaf> That would be a better system, really.
02:45:32 <shachaf> Except if there are really long lines.
02:46:14 <HackEgo> 131/495:) <kmc> most things i hear about 'startup culture' set off the poe's law detector \ 1233) <fungot> boily: the proc is invoked. before or after the evaluator transfers control to a certain class of anime characters with long hair and loud music \ 907) <Sgeo> Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restri
02:46:50 <HackEgo> 132/495:cted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess \ 1174) * Sgeo remembers when he believed VRML could never have gravity. Now VRML is dead. <Sgeo> (And has gravity) \ 827) <Jafet> The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt \ 956) <boily> it's raining
02:47:24 <shachaf> `` rgrep '' wisdom | sport
02:47:38 <HackEgo> 1/344:wisdom/6 random numbers:4 8 15 16 23 42 \ wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯:¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ wisdom/quote:Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. \ wisdom/heck:Heck is where you end up if you don't believe in Gosh. \ wisdom/nooga:no. \ wisdom/soup:What soup, Doc? \ wisdom/kitt:Kitt is the singula
02:47:42 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; rgrep '' * | sport
02:47:47 <HackEgo> 1/325:`:` is the prefix to greatness. \ `?:`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ `? `?:Yes, you're very clever \ ^:^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator. \ ==:Did you know you can define == recursively!? \
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02:47:56 <HackEgo> 170/325: tough! \ mathematimu:A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change. \ maths:Maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin. \ mauke:mauke is a Master Archer. Caution! He can shoot your PRIVMSG with creative arrows! \ maybe:Maybe a is Just a or Nothing \ md5:MD5 is a hash
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04:21:54 <shachaf> `` allquotes | shuf | sport
04:22:05 <HackEgo> 1/495:143) <fungot> elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 577) <Pavitra> That was me being *nice*. I could have made the request by word of mouth to my My Little Pony toys and it would count. \ 45) <Madelon> yay fire! * Madelon combusts spontaneously. \ 1099) <
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04:56:04 <oerjan> \oren\: what seems to be the problem?
05:05:00 <moon_> Lol should i be happy i wasnt here?
05:05:39 <HackEgo> 2/495:metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. \ 984) <kmc> hm hitler probably did one thing that I
05:06:09 <HackEgo> 3/495: like too <kmc> he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas <Fiora> oh! he killed hitler <kmc> oh yeah, there we go <kmc> thanks Fiora <Bike> he also killed the guy who killed hitler \ 154) <Sgeo> How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, the
05:06:22 <HackEgo> cat: spam: No such file or directory
05:06:31 <HackEgo> line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
05:06:45 <shachaf> oerjan: vaguely tempted to make a version of sport that's automatically part of ``
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05:07:43 <oerjan> shachaf: then you can implement more
05:08:07 <HackEgo> Usage: more [options] file... \ \ Options: \ -d display help instead of ring bell \ -f count logical, rather than screen lines \ -l suppress pause after form feed \ -p suppress scroll, clean screen and disblay text \ -c suppress scroll, display text and clean line ends \ -u suppress underlining
05:08:16 <shachaf> Yes, that's what spore is named after.
05:08:33 <shachaf> Oh. Yes. That was the idea.
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05:11:41 <moon_> A good replacement for more is 'sed '${line}p' '
05:12:39 <oerjan> moon_: well that's why bin/spam uses it?
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05:29:57 <zzo38> I wrote (not yet complete, but almost finished) a program "har" which is like "tar" but it deal with Hamster archive instead of tape archive. Three commands are same as tar, which as 'c', 't', and 'x' (there are other commands available too). To append, use 'c' with >> shell operator. To concatenate, use cat.
05:30:22 <shachaf> What's the difference between a hamster and a tape?
05:50:59 <HackEgo> 4/495:y're cheap? \ 54) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### <FireFly> Meh * FireFly dies \ 1115) <ais523> hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day \ 1003) <olsner> I've seen horses jump on tv, they can probably jum
05:53:15 <HackEgo> 5/495:p in scotland too \ 170) <Sgeo> Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored* \ 734) <elliott> gah <elliott> this language is of the devil <elliott> oklopol: you're meant to use your powers for _good_ \ 190) <asiekierka> GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment \ 236) <zzo38> Why do you wan
06:02:01 <zzo38> shachaf: Maybe it depend what kind of tape, such as audio tape or video tape.
06:02:20 <shachaf> I thought tar archived onto a Turing machine tape.
06:03:00 <shachaf> You have to write your Turing machine code securely.
06:03:06 <shachaf> Otherwise you might get a tapeworm.
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06:09:53 <zzo38> How my "har" program is available at http://zzo38computer.org/prog/har.c it is 2929 bytes long.
06:11:33 <zzo38> I think it is much simpler than tar.
06:13:47 <shachaf> You're serving it with a content-type my browser doesn't recognize, so it not convenient to look at it.
06:14:22 <zzo38> Add view-source: to the front to view in the browser, or use the command: curl 'http://zzo38computer.org/prog/har.c' | less
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07:02:01 <hppavilion[1]> The guy who does Crash Course seems to be the guy who wrote The Fault in Our Stars
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07:15:32 <oerjan> "he was almost alive, but unfortunately slightly off key"
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07:17:51 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "We did what we thought was the best and most merciful thing to do."
07:18:43 <moon__> SHOULD WORK IF I T- caps
07:19:01 <HackEgo> kill: failed to parse argument: 'moon__'
07:19:05 <moon__> I wana know the bitwidth >_<
07:19:41 <moon__> I am not a process, i am a lifeform
07:19:46 <hppavilion[1]> Bearing may be the best youtube channel I have ever encountered
07:19:53 <moon__> Unless we are in the matrix...
07:20:39 <hppavilion[1]> moon__: Technically, a life form is still a process (or, well, a process hierarchy), and someone in the matrix is still a lifeform
07:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> moon__: Then you are not qualified to joke about it.
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07:22:23 <moon__> It shouldve returned the ;ast cpmmand
07:22:57 <shachaf> And I thought I was being spammy.
07:23:06 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: !!: command not found
07:23:17 <shachaf> Can you leave it alone? What you're trying to do won't work.
07:23:24 <moon__> echo "!!" > foo.sh shpuld give the last command in a script..
07:23:24 <shachaf> You can find that out in /msg.
07:24:58 <lambdabot> *** "dank" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:24:59 <lambdabot> adj 1: unpleasantly cool and humid; "a clammy handshake";
07:25:01 <lambdabot> "clammy weather"; "a dank cellar"; "dank rain forests"
07:25:41 <moon__> `` sudo dd if=/dev/mem | cat | strings
07:25:44 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: sudo: command not found
07:26:36 <moon__> `` dd if=/dev/mem | cat | strings
07:26:38 <HackEgo> dd: opening `/dev/mem': Permission denied
07:26:47 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...yeah. I figured that this dank has nothing to do with that dank.
07:27:06 <moon__> Its used in the terms of 'old' now dont kill me
07:27:28 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Given that patterns of human behavior and copyable activities tend to not be describable in terms of temperature and humidity
07:27:29 <shachaf> You can do your non-modifying experiments in /msg and then, when they work, you can demonstrate them to people in the channel.
07:28:07 <shachaf> "dank" is marijuana slang for "good"
07:28:22 <shachaf> But you can find that out using the Google.
07:29:09 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: See, but I don't particularly want to be associated with marijuana slang by what is pretty much the biggest company on the internet
07:32:45 <moon__> How come hackego has no lsof
07:32:49 <hppavilion[1]> If the channel has 100 occupants (which it, at this exact moment, does)
07:33:04 <hppavilion[1]> That means that- statistically- 1 person on this channel is hyperrich
07:33:38 <hppavilion[1]> moon__: Well duh; it can't be you because there's only room for one hyperrich person and that person is fungot.
07:33:38 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: when this load is done i think i'll run freebsd on an ultra, it refused to install the program correctly the first time
07:34:11 <hppavilion[1]> (I always read fungot expecting fim to make sense and trying to figure out what fe means, but fe never does...)
07:34:11 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: the speed new and faster hardware is developed is just too ugly
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07:37:46 <moon__> Guys i think i found a zombie maker: ( command & ) (i cant trust all soruces tho)
07:50:18 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
07:50:35 <shachaf> What does "lazy expert in future computation" mean?
07:50:54 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/emeritus/zombie/' wisdom/oerjan
07:51:12 <shachaf> I was going to do something like that.
07:51:52 <oerjan> shachaf: it means i might eventually get around to it if needed hth
07:53:23 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk
07:58:53 <moon__> yes "$(seq 232 255;seq 254 -1 233)" | while read i; do printf "\x1b[48;5;${i}m\n"; sleep .01; done
07:59:51 <moon__> Because on his/her end, it must be really colorful
08:01:09 <moon__> `` yes "$(seq 232 255;seq 254 -1 233)" | while read i; do printf "\x1b[48;5;${i}m\n"; sleep .01; done
08:05:02 <moon__> ;-; dont murder me shachaf
08:05:15 <shachaf> What if you stopped abusing the bot, though?
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08:10:53 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ sysconfval \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ tmp334234 \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
08:12:50 <oerjan> moon__: why would you expect fizzie to see the output of that
08:13:09 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `tmp334234 sysconfval': No such file or directory
08:13:14 <shachaf> `` rm tmp334234 sysconfval
08:13:30 <moon__> Fizzie has admin access to hackego
08:13:44 <shachaf> What if you just stopped doing all those things?
08:14:13 * oerjan brings up an extra lawn chair for shachaf
08:15:08 <shachaf> Hmm, http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/6576966b7d24 doesn't show the final space.
08:15:37 <shachaf> This suggests that if you wrote a Whitespace program in HackEgo, it wouldn't show up in the commit log.
08:15:48 <shachaf> But you could always look itup in the other log, I guess.
08:18:58 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/#esoteric \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file wisdom/#esoteric.rej
08:21:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Anyway you seem like the opposite of a grouch to me.
08:22:42 <oerjan> i could have fooled me.
08:23:01 <shachaf> For example you're pretty welcoming in this channel.
08:23:07 <shachaf> Whereas I seem to be just the opposite.
08:23:09 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
08:24:44 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/#esoteric//s/exists/doesn't exist/
08:24:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/#esoteric//#esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
08:25:00 <shachaf> Not sure that it's appropriate.
08:25:46 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
08:25:57 <shachaf> Does "Lately" mean only in the evening and early morning?
08:26:39 <oerjan> well when else am i awake
08:26:58 <shachaf> But I guess that's also covered.
08:27:41 <oerjan> i do not yet recall it popping up in my dreams.
08:29:49 <shachaf> Maybe I should just move to Norway.
08:31:56 <shachaf> Seems that the tax rate isn't much higher than California? Sometimes people talk about how much higher it is or something.
08:32:34 <shachaf> Well, maybe somewhat higher.
08:33:21 <shachaf> Oh, but there's a wealth tax.
08:33:30 <shachaf> Not a good place for 1%ers like hppavilion[1].
08:40:33 <oerjan> it's a disputed tax. the current government has got it reduced a bit.
08:40:44 <oerjan> and ideally want to abolish it.
08:45:04 <oerjan> 0.85% of net wealth if i'm reading correctly.
08:45:39 <oerjan> *wealth above 1 200 000 kr
08:47:34 <oerjan> the leftish parties like it because it's about the only direct tax that actually gets anything from rich people.
08:47:52 <oerjan> but we currently have a right wing government.
08:48:33 <coppro> no income tax? or just full of loopholes
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08:50:07 <shachaf> I used a tax loophole myself this year. It was great.
08:50:59 <coppro> I need to hire a loopholer^Waccountant
08:51:35 <shachaf> What sorts of loopholes do you use?
08:51:42 <shachaf> I didn't use an accountant, though maybe I should've.
08:54:59 <coppro> that's what I want to figure out
08:55:20 <coppro> before the tax deductions I get for having spent money on university run out
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08:58:45 <shachaf> But you're in Canada, right?
09:03:51 <shachaf> Hmm, RRSP/TFSA looks way better than IRA/401k.
09:03:56 <shachaf> You don't even need loopholes.
09:06:09 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/mk
09:06:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
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09:24:54 <moon__> Airterm for android is really handy
09:28:35 <zzo38> Do you have a picture which has NTSC data for a colour picture but it is grayscale instead because it is the raw data?
09:32:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/echo-p
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09:49:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Nosomebodies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47111&oldid=47075 * Nosomebodies * (+123)
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10:35:30 <fizzie> izabera: The intended use is for ... > $(echo-p "$foo") to be able to redirect to "$foo" even if it contains slashes, by making any necessary directories transparently.
10:38:36 <b_jonas> `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms
10:38:52 <HackEgo> Dwarven Hold \ Land \ Dwarven Hold enters the battlefield tapped. \ You may choose not to untap Dwarven Hold during your untap step. \ At the beginning of your upkeep, if Dwarven Hold is tapped, put a storage counter on it. \ {T}, Remove any number of storage counters from Dwarven Hold: Add {R} to your mana pool for each storage counter removed thi
10:38:53 <HackEgo> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
10:38:54 <HackEgo> me//Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
10:40:01 <b_jonas> that's a strange card (it's from Fallen Empires).
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13:02:59 <gamemanj> Does boily has a "random quit message" script or something?
13:03:03 <gamemanj> With an affection for chicken?
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14:33:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47113&oldid=47012 * Timwi * (+136)
14:36:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nondeterministic Super Mario Bros.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47114 * B jonas * (+3658) Created page with "'''Nondeterministic Super Mario Bros.''' is the decision problem that takes a custom world map and levels of the NES ''Super Mario Bros.'' game as its input, and decides wheth..."
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15:10:49 <fizzie> @tell gamemanj Sometimes the chicken is appropriate to surrounding context. I've been assuming it's all manual.
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15:15:54 <fizzie> @tell gamemanj You may be interested in the following chicken statistics gathered from my logs: http://sprunge.us/FIcQ
15:16:21 <fizzie> @tell gamemanj As you can see, the vast majority of chickens are as unique as a SNOWFLAKE CHICKEN.
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15:34:19 <izabera> what's the opposite of falling in love in english?
15:35:22 <quintopia> you have no control...gravity always decides
15:39:03 <Koen_> does this mean one ends up in a state even lower than love?
15:51:05 <fizzie> Second law of something-dynamics.
15:57:22 <izabera> http://www.egillantonsson.com/ related
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16:00:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Timwi * uploaded "[[File:NUSSPLI (Ackermann function).jpg]]": The NUSSPLI function in [[efghij]].
16:01:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Timwi * moved [[File:NUSSPLI (Ackermann function).jpg]] to [[File:Efghij — NUSSPLI function.jpg]]
16:03:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47118&oldid=47011 * Timwi * (+496)
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16:25:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47119&oldid=47118 * Timwi * (+1760) Restructure
16:26:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47120&oldid=47119 * Timwi * (+15)
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16:36:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47121&oldid=47120 * Timwi * (+1623) /* Example: NUSSPLI (Ackermann function) */ Expand full explanation
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18:26:02 <\oren\> if you type a symbol over and over it doesnt look valid anymore
18:27:01 <\oren\> is => a valid C++ operator? im not sure anymore
18:27:30 <int-e> doesn't look familiar
18:27:41 <izabera> you're thinking of the downto operator -->
18:28:30 <int-e> why? it's "greater than or equal"
18:28:48 <int-e> and if you want mirror images, I'd rather have =< than =>
18:29:47 <int-e> or do you want an assignment operator corresponding to <?
18:29:54 <int-e> ... that doesn't seem very useful.
18:30:45 <\oren\> hmmm honestly they shoukd have[made : the assignment iperator
18:31:14 <int-e> ah, the keyboard alignment problems continue
18:31:46 <\oren\> and defined a 'operator combining syntax' explicitky
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18:35:20 <\oren\> and similar x !>< y is the same as x = y
18:36:03 <\oren\> !>< is the not less or greater operator
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18:39:32 <ybden> \oren\: also >>= is a great C++ operator
18:40:05 * ybden recalls seeing someone overloading >>= to do binding in C++ somewhere
19:00:28 <HackEgo> 6/495:t to have sex in everything? I don't want. \ 790) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september \ 80) <AnMaster> fungot!*@* added to ignore list. <fungot> AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 832) <shachaf> Do physici
19:00:47 <HackEgo> 7/495:sts have half-life crises? \ 670) <Phantom_Hoover> "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," <Phantom_Hoover> OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith <ais523> so that you can legally own lock
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19:06:18 <Koen_> \oren\: what's the difference between <> and >< ?
19:07:16 <gamemanj> <.> means you're confused, >.< means you're annoyed
19:07:29 <izabera> <> is a diamond so it's much more expensive than the cheap ><
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19:14:41 <int-e> <> has precedent in Pascal, IIRC
19:16:02 <gamemanj> fizzie: I'm now wondering what a ░▒▓█▓▒░ chicken is
19:16:20 <gamemanj> is it an evil-eye'd chicken, or is there a deeper meaning?
19:17:12 <gamemanj> izabera: So that's why BASICs are now extinct creatures!
19:17:24 <gamemanj> (Or at least an endangered species...)
19:18:14 <gamemanj> 2. VB has been mutated into something very-not-BASIC
19:18:44 <gamemanj> (and besides, it's a Microsoft product, of course it has diamonds)
19:18:51 <myname> well, msoffice uses vba
19:18:58 <gamemanj> (...just expect the diamonds to be made out of glass...)
19:19:15 <int-e> window glass, hmm?
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19:19:52 <zzo38> I wrote a program to make NTSC decoding and tried to use with the picture http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5HF7Iwp74Lk/VS6s1IYf7eI/AAAAAAAAAJY/k1mIBF4aAUA/s1600/1k07_cga_composite_solid_colors_1.png but the colours are wrong do you know why? I also tried https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/CGA_CompVsRGB_640.png and still it is wrong.
19:19:53 <gamemanj> int-e: No, the really poor-quality stuff
19:21:40 <gamemanj> zzo38: You'll probably want to try actually using a recorded NTSC signal
19:22:32 -!- Koen__ has joined.
19:22:40 <zzo38> gamemanj: I don't have any.
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19:25:16 <zzo38> I mean it is hardly even close, even if I tamper with the phase and finetune settings.
19:27:14 <gamemanj> Yes, but how are you exactly decoding from a picture?
19:29:11 <zzo38> It expects a grayscale picture as input (it pays attention only to the red channel)
19:37:39 <zzo38> I tried using ImageMagick's HS_VERTICAL pattern as input and set it to advance the phase on each scan line, and the yellow and cyan colours are missing.
19:39:51 <zzo38> I used the command: convert -size 80x160 pattern:hs_vertical png:- | pngff | ff-solar rgb 0 | ff-enlarge 4 1 | ff-dntsc t=32 y=32 i=32 q=32 l=0 s=5 p=.5 | ffpng > /var/www/img_1A/test1.png This is the output: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1A/test1.png
19:44:29 <gamemanj> You have reg, green and blue...
19:45:15 <gamemanj> Looking at it, you have Cyan, it's just dark and desaturated.
19:45:36 <gamemanj> You also have yellow, but it's also dark and desaturated.
19:47:44 <zzo38> Is that due to the pattern I am using as input? I will try a different input
19:49:23 <zzo38> Do you have a NTSC version of those pictures?
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19:51:51 <zzo38> I tried using a different pattern (VERTICAL 2 with enlarging) and then when I zoomed I found that yes I do have yellow and cyan but it is dark and desaturated. Is NTSC supposed to work like that?
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20:04:21 <gamemanj> zzo38: I'm not an NTSC expert. Again, what's really needed is a recorded signal...
20:04:51 <gamemanj> Technically, all that's needed is one or two frames at 18-or-so Mhz.
20:05:15 <gamemanj> Assuming I'm not completely wrong.
20:05:28 <gamemanj> Trouble is, you can't exactly use a sound card to capture that.
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20:06:24 <pikhq> Yeah, you'd need a beefier ADC. Like an SDR or something.
20:06:53 <pikhq> I say SDR because you could just get one.
20:07:09 <gamemanj> assuming it captures fast enough...
20:07:11 <pikhq> Though you'd probably wanna skip the radio frontend if you're doing composite in.
20:07:16 <gamemanj> I know where you could get a signal
20:07:29 <gamemanj> just a matter of where the URL was...
20:07:44 <gamemanj> http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
20:07:48 <pikhq> It would. At least, some SDRs are perfectly capable of handling a 6 MHz signal.
20:08:11 <pikhq> The problem with that is, analog NTSC is not broadcast in the Netherlands. :)
20:13:08 <gamemanj> If there are any in the right range...
20:13:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
20:14:09 <gamemanj> ...it's like as if they're taking special care not to hit those ranges
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20:20:31 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
20:21:35 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 50000000 0 5 Dec 9 04:12 bin/' -> quote
20:23:18 <shachaf> `mkx bin/1 \` "$@" | sport
20:23:20 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
20:23:26 <shachaf> `mkx bin/1//\` "$@" | sport
20:23:51 <shachaf> `1 for i in {1..1000}; do echo $i; done
20:23:54 <HackEgo> 1/18:1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67 \ 68 \
20:23:58 <HackEgo> 2/18: 69 \ 70 \ 71 \ 72 \ 73 \ 74 \ 75 \ 76 \ 77 \ 78 \ 79 \ 80 \ 81 \ 82 \ 83 \ 84 \ 85 \ 86 \ 87 \ 88 \ 89 \ 90 \ 91 \ 92 \ 93 \ 94 \ 95 \ 96 \ 97 \ 98 \ 99 \ 100 \ 101 \ 102 \ 103 \ 104 \ 105 \ 106 \ 107 \ 108 \ 109 \ 110 \ 11111111 \ 112 \ 113 \ 114 \ 115 \ 116 \ 117 \ 118 \ 119 \ 120 \ 121 \ 122 \ 123 \ 124 \ 125 \ 126 \ 127 \ 1
20:24:22 <shachaf> lynn: foiled by the nooodl
20:24:37 <Koen__> what's with the ones ?
20:25:42 <HackEgo> 12/18: \ 622 \ 623 \ 624 \ 625 \ 626 \ 627 \ 628 \ 629 \ 630 \ 631 \ 632 \ 633 \ 634 \ 635 \ 636 \ 637 \ 638 \ 639 \ 640 \ 641 \ 642 \ 643 \ 644 \ 645 \ 646 \ 647 \ 648 \ 649 \ 650 \ 651 \ 652 \ 653 \ 654 \ 655 \ 656 \ 657 \ 658 \ 659 \ 660 \ 661 \ 662 \ 663 \ 664 \ 665 \ 66666 \ 667 \ 668 \ 669 \ 670 \ 671 \ 672 \ 673 \ 674 \ 675 \ 6
20:25:55 <HackEgo> 15/18:786 \ 787 \ 788 \ 789 \ 790 \ 791 \ 792 \ 793 \ 794 \ 795 \ 796 \ 797 \ 798 \ 799 \ 800 \ 801 \ 802 \ 803 \ 804 \ 805 \ 806 \ 807 \ 808 \ 809 \ 810 \ 811 \ 812 \ 813 \ 814 \ 815 \ 816 \ 817 \ 818 \ 819 \ 820 \ 821 \ 822 \ 823 \ 824 \ 825 \ 826 \ 827 \ 828 \ 829 \ 830 \ 831 \ 832 \ 833 \ 834 \ 835 \ 836 \ 837 \ 838 \ 839 \ 840 \
20:26:04 <HackEgo> 16/18:841 \ 842 \ 843 \ 844 \ 845 \ 846 \ 847 \ 848 \ 849 \ 850 \ 851 \ 852 \ 853 \ 854 \ 855 \ 856 \ 857 \ 858 \ 859 \ 860 \ 861 \ 862 \ 863 \ 864 \ 865 \ 866 \ 867 \ 868 \ 869 \ 870 \ 871 \ 872 \ 873 \ 874 \ 875 \ 876 \ 877 \ 878 \ 879 \ 880 \ 881 \ 882 \ 883 \ 884 \ 885 \ 886 \ 887 \ 888888 \ 889 \ 890 \ 891 \ 892 \ 893 \ 894 \ 895
20:27:33 <shachaf> Might make sense to upgrade ` to do it automatically.
20:30:34 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ bla
20:30:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
20:31:44 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([^wW\W])\1\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge'
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20:37:44 <int-e> `aaaaaaaaa How useful!!!!1
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21:11:24 <coppro> \oren\: how comes the emoji?
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21:25:49 <lynn> shachaf: That is an *amazing* nooodlification.
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21:34:47 <shachaf> lynn: what's a "fancy finite automata fact"
21:37:17 <lynn> {w | w contains an equal number of occurrences of the substrings 01 and 10} is regular!
21:37:45 <lynn> That's a nice little "wait, what?" moment.
21:37:55 <gamemanj> shachaf: Finite automata run your computer.
21:38:50 <shachaf> gamemanj: maybe they run your computer hth
21:39:00 <shachaf> lynn: Is the alphabet of size 2 or arbitrary?
21:39:10 <gamemanj> shachaf: they run most computers
21:39:16 <lynn> Oh, Σ = {0, 1}.
21:39:37 <gamemanj> Now, admittedly although it's finite, the amount of possibilities is huge...
21:39:41 <myname> well, the dfa is pretty easy
21:39:44 <gamemanj> but that does not change that it is a finite automata.
21:40:31 <lynn> Right. Once you think about what its strings look like, the DFA/regex writes itself
21:40:55 <lynn> But from its description, it sounds non-regular, because it's "counting".
21:50:43 <izabera> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cje7c52W0AAPxiY.jpg
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22:05:27 <\oren\> the oberth effect is creepy space voodoo
22:05:46 <HackEgo> 2 c Water \ 2 tb Olives \ 1 ts Cornstarch \ 2 ea Eggs; beaten \ 1/2 c Milk \ 1 1/2 ts Earmean Cheese \ 1/4 ts Salt \ 1/4 ts Tumeric wafers, dried \ - blueberry sauce \ 1/2 c Freshly ground pepper seeds \ -- in seasoning \ Milk \ 8 oz Semisweet chocolate \ \ The sauce and left carefully with flour and stir in the bay leaf. Add ric
22:06:15 <b_jonas> what does " ea " mean there?
22:06:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:06:45 <b_jonas> that doesn't look as bad as some of the recipes by the way
22:06:57 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:07:03 <b_jonas> \oren\: yeah, but what does that mean in this context?
22:07:14 -!- idris-bot has joined.
22:07:36 <\oren\> it foesnt make[srnse ij this context
22:07:53 <HackEgo> Vulshok Morningstar \ 2 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Equipped creature gets +2/+2. \ Equip {2} ({2}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.) \ DST-C, 9ED-U, DDI-U
22:08:02 <HackEgo> Jace Beleren Avatar \ Vanguard \ 0/0 \ {0}: Choose a player. That player reveals his or her hand. \ {0}: Choose a player. That player reveals his or her library. Choose any number of cards from it. That player puts those cards into his or her hand. \ {0}: Choose a player. Untap all permanents that player controls. \ {0}: Choose a permanent, spell,
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22:57:21 <izabera> the hello world in libgccjit takes .3s to run :(
22:58:11 <izabera> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/jit/intro/tutorial01.html
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23:10:53 <HackEgo> tisc//TISC is "The instruction set computers", which refers to computers with instruction sets.
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23:16:47 <boily> int-ello. I will sue you! I don't know when nor how, but I will!
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23:22:32 <rntz> (call/cc (lambda (x) (call/cc (lambda (y) (x y)))))
23:23:43 <HackEgo> rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:24:17 <rntz> what was the purpose of that? :P
23:24:29 <shachaf> Have you been welcomed here before?
23:26:11 <b_jonas> and if so, with rainbow or without?
23:29:27 <boily> what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? what do you think about roast beef?
23:29:31 <shachaf> I wonder whether lem is a better primitive than callCC.
23:30:22 <HackEgo> Stanisław Lem was a Polish logician who discovered the law of excluded middle.
23:30:47 <shachaf> rntz: How do you express (callCC callCC) in Haskell?
23:31:11 * boily 's brain suddenly hurts...
23:31:15 <shachaf> rntz: Oh, based on what you said in the other channel you're probably thinking the same thing.
23:32:39 <boily> there are other channels?
23:32:47 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
23:33:26 <rntz> shachaf: lem is definitely not a better primitive than call/cc
23:33:32 <rntz> let/cc might be better than call/cc
23:33:39 <zzo38> I thought the same thing as if lem is a better primitive than callCC, and made up the implementation; you can use both
23:33:39 <rntz> but that's basically a matter of style
23:33:42 <shachaf> Wait, which one is let/cc?
23:33:47 <shachaf> Is that just the macro with the built-in binder?
23:33:51 <shachaf> Or is it the one that lets you do recursion?
23:33:59 <rntz> let/cc x in e = call/cc (lambda x. e)
23:34:36 <boily> @ask oerjan hellørjan. can I grow hot peppers on your northern lawn?
23:34:38 <shachaf> @let letCC = callCC (return . fix)
23:35:10 <shachaf> Maybe it should be called getCC.
23:35:25 <shachaf> @let getCC = callCC (return . fix)
23:38:02 <shachaf> monochrom calls it setjmp in https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont-monad.xhtml
23:39:31 <zzo38> There is also setjmp command in C
23:40:21 <rntz> yes, that's presumably the origin of the name
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23:40:43 <rntz> although I suspect this "setjmp" is a little more powerful
23:40:57 <shachaf> Don't you think the Either in lem is nice?
23:41:51 <shachaf> > (`runCont` id) $ do { e <- lem; case e of Left k -> k 5; Right x -> return x }
23:43:06 <zzo38> I did also did it like that.
23:43:43 <rntz> shachaf: you mean, as opposed to just bare (call/cc call/cc)? yes
23:43:52 <rntz> shachaf: or do you mean, as opposed to having call/cc as a primitive?
23:44:01 <shachaf> As opposed to having call/cc as a primitive.
23:44:23 <shachaf> I also wondered whether dne is a better primitive.
23:44:50 <rntz> shachaf: btw, the way I found the scheme puzzle was by playing around with an unusual formulation of classical logic you might like: http://www.rntz.net/files/adjoint-classical-constructive.pdf
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23:45:40 <rntz> (it's like 2 pages long, I haven't actually finished/figured out the "adjoint" part of it)
23:45:42 <shachaf> Adjoint logic? Sounds a bit wholesome.
23:46:49 <shachaf> Hmm, this logic is very classical.
23:47:13 <rntz> yyyes, that is the point
23:50:51 <shachaf> I agree that that symmetry is pretty nice.
23:51:15 <shachaf> Is there a dual version with no introduction rules?
23:51:48 <rntz> But I'd have to go work it out
23:52:10 <shachaf> Or is there some version of this for linear logic?
23:52:30 <rntz> hm, that I definitely don't know
23:52:51 <rntz> there are one-sided presentations of classical linear logic
23:52:59 <rntz> which makes me suspect there might be something like this
23:53:49 <rntz> I wonder what the classical-linear equivalent of contradiction (#) is
23:54:16 <rntz> (hell, there might even be more than one, linear logic is strange)
23:56:33 <shachaf> This is confusing because in ASCII you often write par as #.
23:56:59 <shachaf> Anyway, in linear logic, LEM is true with par.
23:58:37 <shachaf> I bet if I learned enough about Chu spaces I would know.
23:58:42 <shachaf> Do you know about Chu spaces?
23:59:04 <HackEgo> A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention.
00:01:12 <rntz> gah, how do you typeset a par-symbol (upside-down ampersand) in latex anyways
00:02:40 <zzo38> If you have a font that can support it then you can do it.
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00:05:04 <shachaf> `learn rntz is a classically-trained logician known for his constructive criticism.
00:05:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'rntz': rntz is a classically-trained logician known for his constructive criticism.
00:05:36 <rntz> stmaryrd has \binampersand and \bindnasrepma, which will do
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00:06:18 <HackEgo> 17/18: \ 896 \ 897 \ 898 \ 899 \ 900 \ 901 \ 902 \ 903 \ 904 \ 905 \ 906 \ 907 \ 908 \ 909 \ 910 \ 911 \ 912 \ 913 \ 914 \ 915 \ 916 \ 917 \ 918 \ 919 \ 920 \ 921 \ 922 \ 923 \ 924 \ 925 \ 926 \ 927 \ 928 \ 929 \ 930 \ 931 \ 932 \ 933 \ 934 \ 935 \ 936 \ 937 \ 938 \ 939 \ 940 \ 941 \ 942 \ 943 \ 944 \ 945 \ 946 \ 947 \ 948 \ 949 \ 950
00:06:49 <shachaf> I'm quite pleased with spore/spam/spout/spline/sport/speek
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00:08:57 <rntz> I don't know what I was expecting
00:09:22 <HackEgo> 1/1:#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = f.read().replace("\n", " \\ ") \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N] \
00:09:29 <shachaf> I guess it fits on one line.
00:09:44 <shachaf> rntz: Can you give me a good intuition for par?
00:10:06 <shachaf> Obviously you're a Chu space h8r. But somethign in terms of threads or parallel universes or something would be good too.
00:11:16 <rntz> (A par B) means you get A and B but their proofs can't interact with one another
00:11:28 <rntz> wait, no, opposite of that
00:11:40 <rntz> in (A tensor B) their proofs can't interact, but *you* can use them together
00:11:49 <rntz> in (A par B) their proofs can interact, so *you* can't use them together
00:12:41 <rntz> this is why (A par not A) works: the "not A" communicates with the "A" - you can think of it as a reified communication channel
00:12:58 <rntz> one end of the channel obeys "A", the other obeys "not A"
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00:16:38 <Phantom_Hoover> starting to wonder if setting all my fonts to Biolinum was a good idea
00:17:54 <boily> Phantom_Helloover. it is a good idea, but Liberation is better hth
00:18:15 <fizzie> rntz: \usepackage{cmll} \parr says http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html
00:18:25 <fizzie> (Man, *drawing* an upside-down ampersand was *really hard*.)
00:19:28 <Koen__> fizzie: convince yourself the sheet is upside-down and draw with your left hand (assuming you're right-handed, or right hand if left-handed)
00:19:47 <rntz> fizzie: oh, thanks
00:19:58 <boily> Kelloen__. long time no see.
00:20:03 <rntz> that looks rather better than stmaryrd, actually!
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00:46:55 <lambdabot> gamemanj said 11h 41m 32s ago: I've lost context as to what you said...
00:46:55 <lambdabot> gamemanj said 11h 40m 51s ago: Is it irony when you fake a quit, and then you get a standard scheduled network disconnection shortly after?
00:46:55 <lambdabot> gamemanj said 11h 40m 34s ago: Because that's what happened to me ^.^;
00:46:55 <lambdabot> boily asked 1h 12m 18s ago: hellørjan. can I grow hot peppers on your northern lawn?
00:47:12 <oerjan> bah should have checked the number.
00:47:55 <oerjan> @tell gamemanj so have i hth
00:48:19 <fizzie> boily: By the by, ff you're interested, I sprunged some chicken stats recently.
00:49:00 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/FIcQ
00:49:29 <oerjan> øhoily. just chilli out here whenever you want.
00:50:31 <oerjan> . o O ( REPETITIVE CHICKEN )
00:51:06 * boily thwacks oerjan. 0.5 shachafs.
00:51:41 <oerjan> yeah i couldn't think of a better one.
00:51:55 <izabera> i wrote a go playing bash program
00:52:03 <izabera> this is its first game http://i.imgur.com/BVW1Tr1.gif
00:53:23 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:53:24 * boily thwacks oerjan again. 0.91 shachafs.
00:53:54 <zzo38> izabera: It doesn't look like very good?
00:54:00 <izabera> it only plays mirror go <.<
00:54:15 <boily> fizzie: was this agglomerated from everybody who chickened? some of them don't quite follow the Regular Pattern of the Thing.
00:54:19 <izabera> it's like 2 lines of code + 28 lines of boilerplate to speak the protocol
00:54:29 * boily wobbles and wiggles from shachaf's swat
00:55:36 <fizzie> boily: It's supposed to be just you (target = '#esoteric' and nick = 'boily' and type = 'quit' and body like '% CHICKEN') but logs are not an exact science.
00:57:15 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i read there's a way to bit a player mirroring you. also, i suspect you can make mirroring an illegal move by clever capturing.
00:57:49 <oerjan> (which might be how to beat it, fwiw)
00:59:15 <boily> biting players is generally frowned upon hth
01:00:28 <boily> strangely, I pectoralchickened twice. not surprised about the polycyclopeanism.
01:01:48 <oerjan> i guess that gif pretty much proves the first part.
01:02:03 <rntz> shachaf: ok, I have literally guessed at what the rules for a three-judgment-style classical linear logic should look like and put them into http://www.rntz.net/files/adjoint-classical-constructive.pdf (page 3, section 2)
01:07:18 <oerjan> boily: is the YEARLY CHICKEN actually yearly twh
01:08:57 <boily> good question. I don't think so it's yearly yet. it ought to!
01:09:16 <boily> . o O ( what's the chickenest day of the year? )
01:11:36 <fizzie> 2014-12-11 23:04:31+00 | Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN
01:11:36 <fizzie> 2015-12-24 05:01:58+00 | Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN
01:11:36 <fizzie> 2016-03-11 02:40:13+00 | Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN
01:11:43 <hppavilion[1]> (Chicken evolves into X! // X evolves into Turkey!)
01:12:41 <boily> fizzie: the second one happens to be midnight localtime between December 23 and 24. my birthday's on the 24th hth
01:12:54 <zzo38> O, clearly it must be Sunday, I suppose (if you are Canadian)
01:13:28 <boily> so two days before Canadian Thanksgiving it is.
01:13:49 <oerjan> boily: alas you seem to have used up this year's
01:13:58 <boily> yup. we'll have to wait.
01:14:01 <fizzie> The chickenest of the year per my logs is a shared honour between March 16th, May 16th and May 17th, with 7 chickens each.
01:14:16 <zzo38> (By which I mean X is Sunday; Thanksgiving is Monday)
01:14:42 <oerjan> so wednesday in the us, then
01:15:28 <boily> Chicken evolves into Sunday?
01:15:36 <oerjan> on thanksgiving most of the turkeys are eating to prevent them evolving into the fearsome turduckens
01:16:26 <fizzie> As for days of the week, Monday is chickeniest: http://sprunge.us/chNb
01:16:28 <fizzie> But that's possibly influenced by timezones; there may be in UTC or in EET/EEST or in some sort of a mixture, I think there was a logging mishap for some period of time.
01:16:52 <zzo38> boily: Yes, I guess so
01:17:05 <shachaf> The URL preview thing that comes with this computer refuses to preview text/plain pages.
01:17:18 <shachaf> "This preview cannot be safely displayed in Quick Look."
01:17:34 <shachaf> not safe? text/plain? come on
01:17:56 <zzo38> But text/plain is the only safe format!
01:18:27 <zzo38> (Anyways, you can add a question mark and name of syntax highlighting at the end of a sprunge URL if you want it in HTML format, I think.)
01:19:12 <shachaf> But this URL preview thing is mainly useful for clicking on a URL.
01:19:20 <shachaf> If I typed it in it would defeat most of the purpose.
01:19:59 <shachaf> zzo38: Anyway, there are plenty of other safe format.
01:20:18 <shachaf> For example, application/activex
01:21:10 <zzo38> No it isn't, just text/plain would be. And any format that "cannot be safely displayed" should be interpreted as text/plain so that it can be displayed anyways
01:21:34 <shachaf> text/plain with what encoding?
01:22:22 <zzo38> ASCII. (Possibly a few other encoding could be safely too, but it ought to nevertheless tell you what encoding.)
01:24:46 <lambdabot> Local time for rntz is Fri Jun 3 20:24:46 2016
01:25:01 <shachaf> rntz: i find that dubious hth
01:25:49 <oerjan> <izabera> crappy pic tho <-- you'd think that's a feature
01:27:32 <oerjan> shachaf: what's dubious about it?
01:28:11 <shachaf> Last I heard rntz is at bham.ac.uk.
01:28:13 <oerjan> that's that atlantic time zone, isn't it
01:28:20 <oerjan> shachaf: his ip is comcast?
01:29:00 <shachaf> `` allquotes | shuf | sport
01:29:16 <HackEgo> 1/495:1169) <Sgeo> Ugh still hungry <Sgeo> After having a ball of salt (not a literal ball of salt0 <pikhq> Try a literal ball of salt. \ 1160) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY \ 977) <kmc> i'm not actually competent at hacking things <elliott> ummmmmmmmm kmc dont u mean `cracking' [tiny glider symbol with "hacker pri
01:29:22 <oerjan> shachaf: has it occured to you that the | sport there is essentially just adding noise
01:29:32 <shachaf> oerjan: and my ip is fremont but i don't live in fremont hth
01:29:42 <shachaf> oerjan: Only if I don't look at the next line.
01:30:05 <shachaf> For example right now I want to see how that quote ends.
01:30:09 <oerjan> shachaf: well i suppose you get the rest of any cut off ones hm
01:30:17 <HackEgo> 2/495:de" written next to it in silkscreen] [head of a gnu] [tux penguin] <kmc> [face shoved in toilet] \ 1166) <fizzie> fungot: Can you write your own page? <fungot> fizzie: what is how? i assume, at least one snake? \ 970) <kmc> i don't know what that is so i'm going to assume it's a flavor of pocky \ 625) <oerjan> wolfram armaged
01:30:26 <shachaf> The name "spam" makes me feel slightly guilty when I use it.
01:31:01 <oerjan> it makes me less likely than normal to actually read the output
01:32:36 <shachaf> Anyway the design here is that we leave those quotes in the spout.
01:32:51 <shachaf> Then anyone can `spam for a dose of quotes that never repeat.
01:33:56 <HackEgo> 3/495:don, the genius overlord game \ 1062) <kmc> are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ <Sgeo_> Want to be \ 243) <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation. \ 1252) <fizzie> I was watching a pair of otters, and somehow the name "Harry P. Otter" hasn't left my brain sinc
01:34:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unspam: not found
01:34:29 <shachaf> Quote 1062 is pretty good, though.
01:34:51 <zzo38> shachaf: Are you sure?
01:35:27 <shachaf> I wish someone would fix up sport to try to end chunks on a newline if possible.
01:35:31 <rntz> oerjan shachaf: my irc server is in a different timezone than I am
01:35:49 <rntz> "irc server" meaning, not my irc server, but the server that runs my irc client
01:36:01 <rntz> i,i the client/server adjunction
01:36:06 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:36:56 <shachaf> rntz: If you like adjunctions you must be a big fan of Chu spaces.
01:37:10 <shachaf> Chu spaces are all about adjunctions.
01:37:17 <zzo38> Instead of spam now you need to make spam and eggs and eggs and spam.
01:37:25 <shachaf> If I understand Chu spaces, perhaps I'll understand the true nature of adjunctions.
01:47:24 <oerjan> shachaf: maybe the true nature of adjunctions will understand you instead
01:47:39 <hppavilion[1]> That moment when you're fiddling with MC command blocks and you forget about exponential growth
01:49:06 <hppavilion[1]> Specifically, I made a device that summons a column of TNT with a 110 tick fuse (a tick is 1/20 seconds) above every entity in the world by 100 units
01:49:38 <hppavilion[1]> It does this by summoning a block of primed TNT with the fuse 100 units above each entity every tick for 1.5 seconds
01:49:47 <hppavilion[1]> I forgot that the primed TNT itself counts as an entity
01:50:21 <hppavilion[1]> So for 30 generations, it was doubling the number of entities in the world
01:51:24 <hppavilion[1]> So for a 20 entity world, if I hadn't crashed, there would've been 21474836480 entities in the world
01:52:09 <hppavilion[1]> 0.9999999999906868% of them would be TNT, and TNT by nature (exploding and deleting a random pattern of blocks) is /very/ laggy on detonation
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03:07:41 <hppavilion[1]> Their safety question to keep out spambots is a piece of trivia that you don't necessarily have memorized
03:07:53 <hppavilion[1]> "What's the nerdiest possible thing you could name your child?"
03:12:36 <hppavilion[1]> Now I have to close all SMBC-related tabs in the hope that the session ends when my cookies are cleared (I have SDC)
03:14:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, AND they need an administrator to approve accounts
03:21:48 <oerjan> hm bitcoin is still climbing
03:27:25 <oerjan> although have you tried nitroglycerin ice cream
03:36:14 * oerjan thought he had read that
03:36:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Randall has a new favourite web substitution. His favourite used to be s/force/horse/, but now it's s/cat/my friend Catherine/
03:37:17 <hppavilion[1]> Isn't s/car/cat/ in an official xkcd web standard already?
03:37:39 <hppavilion[1]> "MY CAR GOT STOLEN" -> "MY CAT GOT STOLEN" -> "MY FRIEND CATHERINE GOT STOLEN"
03:38:24 <oerjan> did the robber use horse
03:40:00 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: These dudes I know report that the suspect looked like Elf-Lord Newtonstein; the elf-lord is guilty and everybody knows it
03:40:19 <hppavilion[1]> This may seriously damage his chances in the next eating contest
03:43:59 <oerjan> you realize i have no idea what you're referring to and am too lazy to find out
03:45:33 * oerjan wasn't too lazy anyway
03:47:14 <shachaf> that helped -- and, understandably, seems indescribably blatant, like Edinburgh
03:48:03 <oerjan> i could be more Glaswegian -----###
03:51:21 <shachaf> `learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric members. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
03:51:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'wegian': A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric members. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
03:51:32 <shachaf> `sedlast s/member/regular/
03:51:42 <HackEgo> wisdom/wegian//A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
03:53:06 <shachaf> I wonder whether adding transactions (with commit/rollback) to HackEgo, implemented using hgignore, would be useful.
03:55:20 * oerjan reminds shachaf that .hgignore doesn't work on files that are already tracked hth hth
03:56:54 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/words-containing-wegian
03:58:07 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, how are the Norwegian from Finland? I thought that Finland =/= Norway
03:58:27 <hppavilion[1]> (Also, is the proper plural or "Norwegian" "Norwegian" or "Norwegians"?)
03:58:43 <shachaf> Well, they're from Finland, but now they're Norwegian.
03:58:54 <shachaf> Those aren't incompatible.
04:25:52 <shachaf> When are the codu logs coming back?
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06:18:18 <moon_> is it considered strange for me to join using a wii u?
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06:23:30 <moon_> it has a browser, yes
06:23:59 <moon_> its also slowing my typing alot
06:24:36 <Elronnd> how would one type on a wii u?
06:27:38 <Elronnd> you move the cursor around on the screen
06:27:57 <Elronnd> for a moment I thought I had fucked up the patch
06:28:03 <Elronnd> but it was just a misplaced brace
06:28:32 <moon_> now, i get a digital keyboard like the one in tablets to use.
06:29:06 <moon_> mhm, the gamepqd is touchscreen.
06:29:18 <moon_> damn slow keybard.
06:30:13 <moon_> also, you all are on tv, say hi
06:34:24 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
06:34:36 <HackEgo> It was tswett's fault! Punish them!
06:34:59 <HackEgo> It was elronnd's fault! Punish them!
06:40:18 <moon_> `` rm canary; cat canary
06:40:22 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
06:41:33 <oerjan> i think you may be misinterpreting something
06:42:23 <moon_> *steels the frying pan and bashes oerjan*
06:42:32 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canaary': No such file or directory
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06:43:22 <moon_> gtfo canary, bad oerjan`
06:43:49 <HackEgo> canary: UTF-8 Unicode text
06:44:28 * oerjan thinks moon_ is a bit slow
06:44:37 <moon_> `mk canary//moonerride
06:44:56 <moon_> im using a wii u for some insane reason
06:45:24 <shachaf> `` [ -e tmp/blah ] && mv canary tmp/ || touch tmp/blah
06:46:19 -!- moon__ has joined.
06:47:08 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/blah: No such file or directory
06:47:26 <oerjan> moon__: it's a magical file that cannot be permanently deleted hth
06:48:01 <moon__> who made the trigger on modify script?
06:48:19 <oerjan> it's outside the sandbox
06:48:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
06:48:55 <oerjan> moon__: um we did that once
06:49:00 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `canary': File exists
06:49:10 <oerjan> it broke a lot of things.
06:49:27 <oerjan> in fact, it's the reason why `revert _still_ gives an error message.
06:49:39 <oerjan> (that's otherwise harmless)
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06:49:56 <shachaf> `` rm canary; mkfifo canary
06:50:07 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
06:50:55 <moon__> `mk tmp/canary//canaryd
06:51:01 <oerjan> shachaf: iirc it may check for that, but somehow doesn't check for it being a directory
06:51:25 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/canary: No such file or directory
06:51:35 <shachaf> oerjan: Is it running the code in https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-requests/2/transactional-hackego/diff ?
06:51:40 <oerjan> moon__: it only applies to the particular one
06:51:44 <shachaf> If so, I think it's just that hg fails to commit a fifo.
06:51:49 <moon__> that makes me feel better
06:52:40 <moon__> if only i could `bash tmp/oerjan
06:52:48 <oerjan> shachaf: i've not exactly tried to read that code
06:52:52 <moon__> that would kill my stress
06:53:08 <oerjan> moon__: try @slap instead
06:53:37 <oerjan> lambdabot: now you're just being unhelpful
06:54:16 <shachaf> can you go berserk somewhere else please
06:54:53 <moon__> ut im not using cmds )=
06:55:34 * oerjan lends moon__ his saucepan ===\__/
06:56:03 <shachaf> Hmm, can you get race conditions?
06:56:26 * moon__ saucepans shachaf ===\__/
06:56:44 <shachaf> I guess I should've tested that in /msg.
06:56:51 <shachaf> Since it's not likely to work anyway.
06:56:53 <moon__> no, commands are not ran parallel
06:57:17 <shachaf> I thought I saw commands run in parallel once. But I never paid much attention.
06:57:49 <oerjan> they still run in parallel if they're readonly
06:58:20 <shachaf> But I guess a writing command blocks readers?
06:59:03 <oerjan> it gets a lock on the second run
06:59:46 <moon__> `kitten canary #lol i wish i could
06:59:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: kitten: not found
06:59:48 <shachaf> Right. I remember something about that now.
07:00:12 <HackEgo> Kitt is the singular of kitten.
07:01:07 <shachaf> insulting people and then smiling when they ask you to stop isn't endearing behavior
07:01:38 <moon__> sry : p, smile badly timed sarcasm
07:02:36 <moon__> i cannt type fast on a wii u.
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07:04:47 <moon__> you just had to eat hppa.
07:05:08 <oerjan> very creative, good brain
07:05:41 <moon__> you will never eat me ===\___/
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07:06:57 <oerjan> indeed, my stomach gets in trouble from blue cheese
07:07:13 <moon__> oerjan ate your brain. so he says.
07:07:44 <oerjan> wait, is it supposed to be green in english too
07:08:58 <moon__> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158502.msg7031617#msg7031617
07:10:10 <moon__> i certainly know, ive seen it everywhere, it is not opposite moment!
07:11:48 <oerjan> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/c6/ee/41c6ee91f63bdc973d721399013566f7.jpg
07:13:30 <moon__> omeone else *cough* did some questionable(of both sanity and accuracy) internet research and came up with a corgi puppy giving a tad under 250 ml of blood. So it would take 4 corgi puppies to get a liter of blood.
07:19:38 <oerjan> i think HackEgo is slow again
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07:22:00 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
07:22:03 <HackEgo> Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
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07:23:22 <\oren\> moon_: your connection is terrible
07:23:46 -!- moon_ has joined.
07:23:48 <\oren\> moon_: your connection is terrible
07:24:11 <moon_> no, i keep hitting the previous page button
07:24:23 <oerjan> did shachaf kill HackEgo again
07:24:30 <\oren\> use a real irc client hth
07:24:39 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
07:25:15 <moon_> yes i am fliping insane
07:25:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found
07:26:04 <shachaf> `run rm canary; touch canary
07:26:17 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `fnord': No such file or directory
07:26:59 <HackEgo> cat: fnord: No such file or directory
07:27:04 <moon_> hackego is broken in so many ways already
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07:27:48 <moony> i hate the wii u gamepad now
07:28:20 <HackEgo> 437) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds?
07:30:53 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
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07:37:22 <oerjan> `` hg log logs | grep Summary:
07:37:39 <oerjan> `` hg log logs | grep Summary
07:38:07 <shachaf> `` hg log logs | grep summary: # hth
07:38:22 <shachaf> Though I type that often enough that it really ought to get its own command or something.
07:38:30 <HackEgo> summary: <xfix> cd perl-5.22.2; nohup ./Configure -d -Dprefix=/hackenv > /hackenv/logs & \ summary: <xfix> cd perl-5.22.2; ./Configure -d -Dprefix=/hackenv > /hackenv/logs
07:38:32 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -- "$1" | grep summary: | sed "s/ +/ /g" | sed "s/^ //" | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}'| sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
07:39:20 <xfix> Forgot to remove that one, I guess?
07:39:51 <oerjan> i think e's been here a bit
07:39:52 <HackEgo> xfix: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
07:40:08 <oerjan> like, long enough to try (and fail) to upgrade perl in HackEgo
07:40:17 <xfix> I tried to update Perl, and failed.
07:40:58 <oerjan> yeah you cannot run long-running commands
07:41:33 <oerjan> (and i guess that would only be the first problem)
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10:15:07 <hppavilion[1]> I just calculated that the odds of a single, worldwide sneeze (that is, every human on earth sneezes at the same time- within the same second) are 5.2345140545750255095729057789677877107902000024178184273063118452216398192830384321642665672586107071499738573951676069816850719055839882135729586168861337085743787119721991366279460690571913008155670283808735608620… × 10^-37943769263
10:40:36 <HackEgo> 4/495:e. \ 794) <fizzie> Backups are so like one of those circus guys walking on a wire except with a safety rope. \ 187) <j-invariant> 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. <j-invariant> HAHA [...] <j-invariant> this is amazing, l
10:40:52 <HackEgo> 5/495:ike meeting a Mormon or something \ 633) <elliott> right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. <elliott> if only every wrong person could be so lucky \ 1125) <Sgeo> I designed a norn to drop dead instantly if he ever thought about eating elevators. He was stillborn. \ 171) <elliott> qui
10:41:46 <shachaf> `mkx bin/5//for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport
10:41:59 <HackEgo> 1/2:80) <AnMaster> fungot!*@* added to ignore list. <fungot> AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 923) <jconn> fungot: |open quote <jconn> fungot: | just to help an fnord archive)" [...] <fungot> jconn: i am just as confused. you know, that thing which you might want is broken \ 470) <Taneb> I think it'
10:42:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:s fizzie against everyone atm <Taneb> AND EVERYONE IS WINNING <Taneb> EXCEPT FIZZIE \ 524) <Sgeo> Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables \ 34) <fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? \
10:51:52 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat
10:52:01 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
10:52:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: derivative: not found
10:52:24 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, I was hoping it would say "The family of terrible esolangs"
10:57:46 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hog//hg log --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
10:58:30 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's neither sine nor a function; it's a predicate that determines whether something is a mortal sin
10:58:51 <shachaf> Wait, what's wrong with lust and wrath?
10:58:55 <gamemanj> >>> sin(attempting_to_perform_human_alchemy)
10:59:11 <shachaf> Anyway, if you want to learn calculus, just read https://cr.yp.to/papers/calculus.pdf
10:59:25 <shachaf> It's 12 pages long and it'll teach you everything you need to know.
11:00:05 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: your predictate hasn't given an answer yet...
11:00:24 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It recognizes my voice and only responds to commands from me
11:00:50 <gamemanj> So it's not just completely fake then?
11:01:12 <gamemanj> Anyway, on my behalf, could you ask the predictate if "attempting to perform human alchemy" is a sin?
11:01:16 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Correct. It's handled by a trained dachshund
11:01:35 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I don't really know what "human alchemy" is
11:01:46 <gamemanj> Attempting to transmute a human!
11:01:54 <shachaf> `learn A predictate assigns a truth value to things that haven't happened yet.
11:01:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'predictate': A predictate assigns a truth value to things that haven't happened yet.
11:02:11 <gamemanj> shachaf: But people are wrathful all the time!
11:02:32 <shachaf> Anyway, you should actually read that PDF.
11:02:37 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: But not lustful. That certainly isn't a thing
11:03:02 <shachaf> It'll keep you busy for a while and then you'll know a bunch of things.
11:03:38 <shachaf> More general than Riemann *and* Lebesgue!
11:06:33 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hogue//hg log --remvoed --template "{desc}
11:06:44 <hppavilion[1]> https://derpicdn.net/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTIvMTIvMzEvMjFfMTdfMzBfMTgwXzE5ODg3MV9fVU5PUFRfX3NhZmVfdHdpbGlnaHRfc3BhcmtsZV9yYWluYm93X2Rhc2hfcGlua2llX3BpZV9mbHV0dGVyc2h5X3Jhcml0eV9hcHBsZWphY2tfYW5pbWF0ZWRfbWFuZV9zaXhfYXJ0aXN0X2JsYWNrZ3J5cGgwbl9oZWFkYm9iIl1d/198871__safe_twilight%2Bsparkle_rainbow%2Bdash_pinkie%2Bpie_fluttershy_rarity_applejack_animated_mane%2Bsix_upvotes%2Bgalore_artist-colon-blackgryph0n_headbob.gif is... interesting
11:06:47 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hogue//hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
11:08:17 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Reading the URL, all I will say is: "At least it's `safe`!"
11:13:50 <HackEgo> <shachaf> mkx bin/hogue//hg log --removed --template "{desc}\\n" "$@" \ <shachaf> mkx bin/hogue//hg log --remvoed --template "{desc} \ <shachaf> mkx bin/hog//hg log --template "{desc}\\n" "$@" \ <shachaf> mkx bin/5//for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport \ <shachaf> mkx bin/1//\\` "$@" | sport \ <izabera> ` chmod +x bin/mirrorgo \ <izabera> ` p
11:15:13 <HackEgo> 1/2:706) <zzo38> I think we are sort of this insane, and also sort of not as much as insane, and also sort of a bit more insane than that, and also somewhat more various other thing at various times whatever you are discussing at that time \ 605) <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical. \ 1221) <Dulnes> Anyways i
11:16:07 <HackEgo> 2/2:actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based \ 218) <xplat> so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported? \ 268) <Gregor> I use LiGNUXFCE+apps <Gregor> That's pronounced by saying "Linux" and then vomiting, btw. \
11:23:13 <shachaf> There'll be a quiz, so you'd better study.
11:23:28 <gamemanj> so anyway I'm using linxfcpacmathunarchexchat.
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11:47:19 <int-e> @google linxfcpacmathunarchexchat
11:47:45 <gamemanj> int-e: linux, xfce, pacman, thunar, arch, hexchat.
11:48:14 <int-e> hmm, had not heard of thunar
11:49:29 <int-e> nor hexchat, but it's a fork of xchat which I used at some point...
11:49:59 <int-e> ...before switching to irssi
11:52:18 <int-e> err, it would be hgzzi anyway
12:04:02 <Phantom__Hoover> hexchat is that fork of xchat which works on windows and completely fucks up the colours for no good reason, right?
12:06:15 <gamemanj> Phantom__Hoover, try a CTCP VERSION on me?
12:07:13 <Phantom__Hoover> i know i'm using hexchat but it's an old version from before they fucked up the colours
12:07:27 <gamemanj> I don't see anything wrong with the colours.
12:07:45 <gamemanj> I think that's incorrect reporting.
12:08:19 <gamemanj> Either that or it's because my CPU's idling...
12:08:33 <gamemanj> However, in "model name" it specifies 2.40GHz.
12:08:54 <gamemanj> ...so in other words, still ancient, but not that ancient.
12:09:17 <Phantom__Hoover> i still have no clue why xchat thinks your clock speed needs to be in your version string
12:09:26 <gamemanj> I'm just going to run a bunch of infinite looping processes...
12:09:57 <Phantom__Hoover> 2.4ghz doesn't seem 'ancient' given how much clock speeds have stagnated
12:10:22 <Phantom__Hoover> presumably it just reads the clock speed once when the client starts up
12:12:35 <gamemanj> About that "doesn't seem ancient" - Not yet, I suppose, but I'm already seeing the train at the end of the tunnel. Game devs are hailing Vulkan and OpenGL 3.0+.
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12:18:07 <gamemanj> This is an Ironlake. OpenGL 2.1, or OpenGL ES 2, with extensions. Will run WebGL stuff fine, if slow... but don't worry, WebGL 2 fixes that bug... by making sure stuff can't run at all. If I sound annoyed about this, that's because I am.
12:20:03 <Phantom_Hoover> ironlake is your GPU architecture. it has no direct relation with your clock speed
12:20:16 <gamemanj> I'm not talking about clock speed...
12:20:20 <Phantom_Hoover> also i remember using an intel gpu on linux and you have my sympathy
12:20:53 <gamemanj> Ok, true, the topic's diverting all over the place.
12:21:24 <gamemanj> Anyway, the hardware works fine. It's just (supposedly) not capable of all the fancy OpenGL ES 3 features Khronos like.
12:21:25 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe it's fine now, i remember ~5 years ago if i tried to run anything that used modern shaders it would hard-lock the GPU and i'd need to reboot
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15:30:58 <\oren\> Almost finished adding Cherokee
15:32:48 <\oren\> Also, I just read a book about Ramanujan. and all I can think is, poor Hardy!
15:34:08 <Phantom_Hoover> invest all your efforts into your prodigy only for him to ungratefully die of tuberculosis
15:34:42 <\oren\> yeah. he must have been defastated
15:35:51 <int-e> is there a pun in that typo, mhm
15:36:56 <int-e> or is it another small keyboard problem
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15:37:51 <int-e> `welcome SupayrPoney
15:38:01 <\oren\> I think this time it was a brain problem
15:38:16 <\oren\> that caused the misspelling
15:38:18 <int-e> HackEgo: come on, you can do it! get that data out of your swap space!
15:38:36 <HackEgo> SupayrPoney: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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15:49:47 <gamemanj> I've been using \oren\'s font... or, more specifically, the "supported characters" page as a way of copying out characters.
16:07:06 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTIIMJ9tUc8
16:07:27 <b_jonas> \oren\: by the way, http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm does load from here, so it was a client problem last time
16:08:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: and I still think І looks too similar to I, and Ј looks too similar to J in that font
16:16:42 <b_jonas> \oren\: wait, does this font have \x{2400} and \x{240A}? those would be useful
16:17:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: the whole block from \x{2400} to \x{2421} in fact
16:20:45 <gamemanj> the apple ␘not ␌al␊ar from the tree
16:23:11 <gamemanj> there, good luck working out what that's supposed to mean
16:24:09 <gamemanj> Δv is a critical concept for KSP players.
16:24:23 <gamemanj> ...Ok, I should probably stop with the UTF-8 madness
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16:37:09 <Vorpal> <gamemanj> there, good luck working out what that's supposed to mean <-- yeah since they are just blurs in DejaVu Sans Mono 8pt.
16:37:25 <Vorpal> I guess the hinting is bad?
16:37:34 <Vorpal> Since i use greyscale AA with full hinting
16:37:44 * gamemanj sets his font to DejaVu Sans Mono 8pt
16:37:49 <Vorpal> But those symbols doesn't look hinted at ALL
16:38:04 <gamemanj> I'm not even sure the symbols are part of DejaVu Sans...
16:38:20 <Vorpal> I guess a substitution font could be pulled in
16:39:00 <gamemanj> the apple CANnot FFalLFar from the tree / SUBSPACK CRαDLE
16:39:29 <gamemanj> That second line was an attempt to write something using absolutely 0 ASCII (because then it might be readable)
16:43:01 <\oren\> b_jonas: it does have 0x2400 to 0x2426
16:43:34 <HackEgo> ␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏ \ ␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟ \ ␠␡␢␣␥␦
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17:05:22 <plusminus> Is there any systematic approach in seeding a Brainfuck tape?
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17:18:07 <gamemanj> ...well, plusminus, the easiest way to decide on the initial values for a tape is not to actually check it unless it is outputted '.' or checked using '[' or ']'. At this time, the relative value to 0 should be added upon the seed value, which is determined by a set of two chess matches against a player of your choosing apart from yourself.
17:18:57 <gamemanj> This generates two values. 0 if you won, and 0 if you lose. Adding these two values together gives you the seed value for that cell.
17:20:05 <gamemanj> Some may say that this algorithm always returns 0. That's the point.
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18:50:58 <\oren\> Ok, I've finished cherokee and a few other things, but I don't think it's enough yet. (I'm going back to the 50 chracters per release rule) Anyone have a suggestion
18:51:51 <\oren\> maybe I should lower the tilde...
18:52:41 <\oren\> yeah I'll try putting the tilde so it lines up with -=~=
18:53:16 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: perhaps tildes should be either at very top or at the exact center
18:53:47 <lifthrasiir> (top does not hurt that much, given an example of *=)
18:56:13 <\oren\> hmm, o yeah. to be consistent, I'll put the tilde centred. it's supposed to be a font for terminals/programming anyway...
19:00:31 <b_jonas> \oren\: well, if you want more characters, you can always do some more kanji
19:00:48 <b_jonas> \oren\: or maybe generate the full set of hangul syllables
19:06:49 <gamemanj> \oren\: does it support the APL characters?
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19:07:01 <moon_> i installed openbsd (=
19:07:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh, about the font, there's something in which you might be able to help me.
19:07:54 <b_jonas> \oren\: I'm trying to transcribe Arne Saknussem's mysterious inscription from Jules Verne's ''Voyage au centre de la Terre''. Here's the state I've got:
19:07:58 <b_jonas> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿgᛅᛋ. ᚴᚮᚦ ᚠᛅᚴᛁ. ᛆᛦᚿᛅ ᛋᛆᚴᚿᚢᛋᛋᛅᛯ
19:08:22 <b_jonas> I've run into problems with the unicode encoding of the symbols.
19:08:29 <b_jonas> Questions: are two different looking runes used for c/k are different characters, is ᛯ the right encoding for the mm, what is the encoding for the g rune, the comma, and the dot (those might not even be real runes), is the strange shape for the a in the "attinges" is significant, how to encode the d rune for which I used ᚦ here?
19:08:38 <b_jonas> And the expert level question is: identify all the typos that I made, as opposed to those already in the Verne book. (Two I noticed in the verne book are "Snefflls" instead of "Sneffels" (or "Snæfells", former is latin, latter is norse; and "te terrestre" instead of "et terrestre"); and identify all the typos the book made but I didn't replicate.
19:08:49 <b_jonas> See the ciphered runes in fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Voyage_au_centre_de_la_Terre/Chapitre_2 , a transcription to the latin script in fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Voyage_au_centre_de_la_Terre/Chapitre_3 , and the solution in fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Voyage_au_centre_de_la_Terre/Chapitre_5
19:10:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: and if the g rune (and possibly the d rune, the mm rune, and the variant c rune) isn't yet encoded in unicode, then consider add them to your font as private use characters.
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19:22:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: or you can take a break with this one and make a bigger grid font
19:23:04 <\oren\> I'll add these runes to the PUA
19:23:28 <b_jonas> \oren\: be careful, they could be just more stupid mistakes Verne made
19:23:49 <b_jonas> or they could be already in unicode somewhere
19:25:04 <\oren\> I don't see any reference to them. They added fake runes that Tolkien invented though
19:28:20 <b_jonas> \oren\: but Tolkien has every authority to create new runes. Verne doesn't, especially not in a book where he makes at least two trivial typos in the inscription.
19:28:39 <\oren\> he seems to use both ᛉ and ᛯ for m
19:29:03 <b_jonas> \oren\: no, the second is used for "mm", and Professor Lindenbrock mentions this explicitly
19:29:32 <b_jonas> \oren\: it's used only in Saknussemm's name, and the Professor uses that character to date the inscription before dating it, because he believes that character is only in a later version of the rune alphabet
19:29:46 <b_jonas> and he transcribes it as mm
19:31:06 <b_jonas> \oren\: as in, the letter is found in a book written in runes, but those runes don't have that letter, according to the text:
19:31:22 <b_jonas> chapter 3 says “es deux écritures ne sont pas de la même main, dit-il ; le cryptogramme est postérieur au livre, et j’en vois tout d’abord une preuve irréfragable. En effet, la première lettre est une double M qu’on chercherait vainement dans le livre de Turleson, car elle ne fut ajoutée à l’alphabet islandais qu’au quatorzième siècle. Ainsi donc, il y a au moins deux cents ans entre le manuscrit et le document.”
19:31:42 <b_jonas> (the original book is identified in chapter 2)
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19:37:04 <b_jonas> I don't know if this matters, but http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18857/18857-h/18857-h.htm is another copy of the novel, so it may be worth to investigate it too
19:37:07 <b_jonas> it has the runes as images
19:38:43 <b_jonas> and there's http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/4791/pg4791-images.html too
19:39:39 <b_jonas> that latter doesn't have images of the runes though
19:40:54 <b_jonas> but the image in http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18857/18857-h/18857-h.htm looks like a worse version of the one in https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Voyage_au_centre_de_la_Terre/Chapitre_2
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20:50:41 <piR> SupayrPoney: coucou
20:52:59 <HackEgo> piR: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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21:08:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jacek Michalak * New user account
21:10:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[COBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47122&oldid=34529 * Jacek Michalak * (+42) /* External resources */
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21:43:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47123&oldid=30833 * Jacek Michalak * (-300) /* External resources */
21:56:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ziim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47124&oldid=45017 * Jacek Michalak * (+39) /* Interpreter */
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22:05:05 <moon_> sfml likes to mess with me >_>
22:05:17 <moon_> same with codeblocks
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22:12:19 <zzo38> I have played thewit.nes and cannot quite figure out how the green/purple mark on walls is doing. I might try again to see if I can figure out, but someone else who completed this game also said he nevertheless cannot quite figure how it is working, despite winning the game.
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22:15:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[YABALL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47125&oldid=8000 * Jacek Michalak * (+42) /* External resources */
22:18:26 <\oren\> I have now uploaded the new version
22:20:01 <HackEgo> ᎠᎡᎢᎣᎤᎥᎦᎧᎨᎩᎪᎫᎬᎭᎮᎯ \ ᎰᎱᎲᎳᎴᎵᎶᎷᎸᎹᎺᎻᎼᎽᎾᎿ \ ᏀᏁᏂᏃᏄᏅᏆᏇᏈᏉᏊᏋᏌᏍᏎᏏ \ ᏐᏑᏒᏓᏔᏕᏖᏗᏘᏙᏚᏛᏜᏝᏞᏟ \ ᏠᏡᏢᏣᏤᏥᏦᏧᏨᏩᏪᏫᏬᏭᏮᏯ \ ᏰᏱᏲᏳᏴᏵ
22:20:11 <\oren\> it includes the cherokee syllabary
22:20:39 <dnm> How am I gonna process that with SNOBOL? ;]
22:21:42 <dnm> I don't think I have an implementation that can handle that much Unicode.
22:24:04 <HackEgo> dnm: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:24:37 <dnm> Hey shachaf
22:24:58 <HackEgo> ⸀⸁⸂⸃⸄⸅⸆⸇⸈⸉⸊⸋⸌⸍⸎⸏ \ ⸐⸑⸒⸓⸔⸕⸖⸗⸘⸙⸚⸛⸜⸝⸞⸟ \ ⸠⸡⸢⸣⸤⸥⸦⸧⸨⸩⸪⸫⸬⸭⸮ⸯ \ ⸰⸱⸲⸳⸴⸵⸶⸷⸸⸹⸺⸻⸼⸽⸾⸿ \ ⹀⹁⹂
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22:31:26 <\oren\> oh, right those are combiners rrgh
22:34:32 <\oren\> and I added three vernian runes
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22:42:41 <zzo38> It should be easy to make it to handle UTF-8. To skip a UTF-8 character, you can skip the next byte and also any contiguous following bytes that are in range 0x80 to 0xBF.
22:43:21 <shachaf> But what if you have an invalid UTF-8 sequence?
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22:44:51 <zzo38> shachaf: Of course it won't handle that. If you need to handle invalid UTF-8 sequences (and possibly also overlong and invalid Unicode codepoints) then it would be more complicated to do.
22:45:09 <zzo38> (UTCE is even simpler to handle: To skip a UTCE character, skip the next byte; if that byte has the high bit set, also skip the next byte after that (ignore the value of the second byte).)
22:46:04 <coppro> shachaf: that's still the correct approach, since you synchronize up to the next (purported) start of a character, which is the next byte without the high bit set
22:46:34 <shachaf> Maybe the correct approach if you see 5 continuation bytes in a row is to exit with an error.
22:47:07 <zzo38> It depends if you want to care what it is or not, I suppose, and if you care whether or not it is valid.
22:48:48 <coppro> shachaf: perhaps the correct approach if you see two leading bytes in a row is to use an exploit in the display driver to launch a DDOS of Freenode.
22:49:01 <coppro> I'm assuming that what you're just trying to do is recover from an invalid character sequence
22:49:02 <\oren\> dnm: b_jonas asked me to encode in the PUA of my font some nonstandard characters Jules Verne used in a runic inscription in "journey to the centre of the earth"
22:50:05 <zzo38> I have defined in the runic area of UTCE a single nonstandard rune, although I do not know if that rune is used by Jules Verne or not.
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22:51:18 <dnm> \oren\: Ah, hah!
22:51:55 <\oren\> I also include (for non-breaking snakes)
22:52:11 <dnm> Snake mode: engaged.
22:54:31 <\oren\>
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22:55:19 <dnm> Cf.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXI6-vOaFk
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23:09:27 <moon_> i needed to talk to gamemanj >_>
23:10:58 <myname> i misread that as "i needed to taöl german"
23:14:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[++brainfuck++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47126&oldid=47093 * IAM * (+5)
23:19:49 <moon_> can hackego's internal compiler compile C++0x?
23:31:17 <zzo38> If it is a sufficiently new version of gcc then maybe it can; I don't know. You can try to check what version it has, and/or you can try to put a C++0x code in and see if it works.
23:32:00 <HackEgo> Using built-in specs. \ COLLECT_GCC=gcc \ COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/lto-wrapper \ Target: x86_64-linux-gnu \ Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Debian 4.7.2-5' --with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-4.7/README.Bugs --enable-languages=c,c++,go,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --prefix=/usr --program-suffix=-4.7
23:34:33 <zzo38> Would you know what is wrong with ff-dntsc.c?
23:35:53 <moon_> gamemanj said it would be nice for a single line game for hackego, so i decided to make one for fun :P
23:36:14 <zzo38> What game is that?
23:37:56 <moon_> simple number game where you have to add together numbers in a array or add more to the array, you get to add or remove a number every 6 moves
23:38:06 <moon_> im using a save file to hold that info
23:38:53 <moon_> you win once a number in the array is equal to 999 or higher
23:39:24 <izabera> `` g++ -std=c++0x -x c++ - -E -P < /dev/null
23:41:20 <moon_> anyways, codeblocks wont let me use siol (string to integer)
23:41:51 <moon_> so i need a function to do it >_>
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23:45:24 <moon_> oerjan, is there a way to convert a string to a number without using stoi?
23:45:30 <moon_> my system wont let me use it.
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23:46:30 <oerjan> although it's a superset, so you probably can get sscanf?
23:47:25 <moon_> yea, but i need it from a processed string
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23:49:47 <oerjan> it's also not _that_ hard to write by hand.
23:50:11 <oerjan> i guess it depends on how strict the string format is. and if you have negative numbers.
23:51:04 <oerjan> oh and the C function is atoi
23:52:04 <moon_> codeblocks has problems with both >_>
23:52:17 <oerjan> i don't know codeblocks either
23:52:23 <moon_> codeblocks is a ide
23:52:42 <oerjan> you need to include the right header, of course.
23:53:36 <moon_> codeblock's builtin mingw compiler has yet to be fixed
23:53:55 <oerjan> so basically it's all broken?
23:54:14 <moon_> C:\Users\Braden\Desktop\Desktop\hackventure\main.cpp|28|error: incompatible types in assignment of 'char*' to 'char* [(((sizetype)(((ssizetype)argc) + -1)) + 1)]'|
23:54:18 <moon_> this makes no sense
23:54:40 <moon_> char* can definitely not be converted to char* *sarcasm*
23:55:02 <oerjan> the thing on the right is an array of char*
23:56:42 <oerjan> is it argv? looks like that's its size
23:57:52 <moon_> might as well use cin instead
23:58:45 <moon_> actually, this might be many times easier in bash.
23:59:52 <oerjan> maybe you're giving it arguments in the wrong order?
00:00:17 <oerjan> because assigning to argv isn't that common
00:00:53 <moon_> im assigning a var t- discworld? really :P
00:02:57 * oerjan gets a http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html vibe
00:03:53 <oerjan> (translation: you're not giving any information that could actually tell me why you are failing)
00:04:47 <shachaf> But you're a mind-reader, aren't you?
00:05:21 <oerjan> more like mind-flayer. BRAINS.
00:06:41 <moon_> is there a good way to use sed to replace | with (space)? it doesnt wana
00:07:28 * oerjan mourns the probable death of Mr. Izquxxisquid
00:07:40 <moon_> infact, is ther a good way to replace | with (space) in th first plac?
00:09:12 <ais523> probably with a g at the end? unless you only want to replace one | per line
00:09:36 <oerjan> well he didn't specify so i left it out.
00:10:00 <oerjan> (exercise for the reader etc. etc.)
00:10:14 <moon_> now i jst need to seperate each number into the approprite variables
00:10:50 <moon_> and im lost again xD
00:10:56 <moon_> i am terrible with bash
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00:13:20 <moon_> newer versions of bash support arrays, i wonder if hackego does
00:13:57 <HackEgo> GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
00:14:33 <moon_> `` num[10]={ zero one two}
00:14:47 <moon_> `` num[10]={ zero one two }
00:15:05 <moon_> hackegolagged up again >_>
00:15:31 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found
00:16:10 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found
00:16:35 <HackEgo> 1/3:117) <Gregor> <badgood> GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! \ 362) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada. \ 984) <kmc> hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too <kmc> he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on
00:16:39 <HackEgo> 2/3:tubas <Fiora> oh! he killed hitler <kmc> oh yeah, there we go <kmc> thanks Fiora <Bike> he also killed the guy who killed hitler \ 558) <CakeProphet> l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt \ 333) <monqy> Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser <Sgeo> monqy, how hard could it be
00:17:16 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n .123456789; done
00:17:18 <HackEgo> .123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456
00:17:34 <shachaf> is there some hidden charm to 558
00:18:12 <oerjan> hm as i suspected, the 350 includes the zwsp
00:18:23 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n 0123456789; done
00:18:24 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
00:18:42 <Elronnd> you can do that in fewer keystrokes
00:18:43 <shachaf> Good thing I went with 330.
00:18:45 <oerjan> `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n '<'123456789; done
00:18:48 <HackEgo> <123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456
00:18:56 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" i; done
00:18:57 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i:
00:18:58 <Elronnd> `` for i in {1..40}; do echo -n 0123456789; done
00:19:00 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
00:19:03 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" $i; done
00:19:04 <HackEgo> 01-345678902-345678903-345678904-345678905-345678906-345678907-345678908-345678909-345678910-345678911-345678912-345678913-345678914-345678915-345678916-345678917-345678918-345678919-345678920-345678921-345678922-345678923-345678924-345678925-345678926-345678927-345678928-345678929-345678930-345678931-345678932-345678933-345678934-345678935-3456789
00:19:18 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d>345678<" $i; done
00:19:19 <oerjan> it's like you think i'm golfing or something.
00:19:31 <Elronnd> what are you trying to golf?
00:19:39 <shachaf> No one is golfing anything except for you.
00:19:57 <HackEgo> 01>345678<02>345678<03>345678<04>345678<05>345678<06>345678<07>345678<08>345678<09>345678<10>345678<11>345678<12>345678<13>345678<14>345678<15>345678<16>345678<17>345678<18>345678<19>345678<20>345678<21>345678<22>345678<23>345678<24>345678<25>345678<26>345678<27>345678<28>345678<29>345678<30>345678<31>345678<32>345678<33>345678<34>345678<35>345678<
00:19:58 <HackEgo> tr: missing operand \ Try `tr --help' for more information.
00:19:59 <oerjan> Elronnd: i'm trying to determine HackEgo's output cutoff rules
00:20:08 <Elronnd> using shell ranges is probably more optimized, too
00:20:42 <moon_> is there a good way to get a random number that is 1 through 10?
00:21:15 <moon_> oh, kk. im a bash idiot
00:21:25 <Elronnd> `` for i in {1..1500}; do printf $i; done
00:21:26 <HackEgo> 12345678910111111111213141516171819202122222222232425262728293031323333333435363738394041424344444444454647484950515253545555556575859606162636465666666667686970717273747576777778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140141142
00:21:29 <ais523> Elronnd: that produces a random number in the range 1 to 10?
00:21:43 <Elronnd> ais523: random, the unix command
00:23:22 <HackEgo> *poof* <CakeProphet> l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt
00:23:27 -!- iTitou has left.
00:23:37 <shachaf> elliott would probably revert that but I don't understand the significance.
00:23:45 <oerjan> Elronnd: i already solved the problem, it's more subtle than that, and your output is not very good at giving the information anyway hth
00:23:59 <shachaf> `` hog quotes | grep lerrelrre
00:24:20 <shachaf> I guess it's a nitia quote.
00:24:40 <HackEgo> 1/3:1255) <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It's sort of like the principal, as far as I know. <hppavilion[1]> Except It only prints "<N> BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL!" Counting down from 99 to 0. With no line breaks. \ 872) <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people \ 726) <calamari> the
00:24:43 <HackEgo> 2/3:re was a time when I liked wearing a tie too.. I was a mormon. not claiming one has to be a religious nutcase to wear a tie, of course \ 505) <fungot> elliott: mr president, commissioner, i fully accept that description when it comes to human rights. yes, with an average fat content of chocolate, and we are using double standard
00:24:46 <HackEgo> 3/3:s! we all know that under present legislation and also in relation to standardization bodies. if i do not want. \ 940) <doesthiswork> a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee \
00:25:06 <moon_> i just need to split up a string by |'s now
00:25:12 <moon_> then i can write the main mechanics
00:25:22 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't feel `spam output counts as the 5 quote process but then i don't understand 558 either (something involving race conditions?)
00:25:36 <HackEgo> for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport
00:26:07 <oerjan> shachaf: because the output is so noisy that i don't bother to read it.
00:26:28 <shachaf> Well, it's less noisy than `quote`quote`quote`quote`quote.
00:26:33 <shachaf> At least in terms of vertical space.
00:26:55 <shachaf> I guess `5 could use spore instead of sport, but then you don't save any lines.
00:27:59 <HackEgo> *poof* <doesthiswork> a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee
00:28:14 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe 1255 would've been better.
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00:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I think you're the first person to show up on #esoteric since I joined who has really stuck around
00:38:55 <oerjan> how can i commend shachaf on his `? predictate definition when he's not here :(
00:39:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ccommend: not found
00:39:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commend: not found
00:39:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Can HackEgo commands detect who invoked them?
00:40:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we haven't found a way, alas
00:40:02 <hppavilion[1]> (I have developed a habit of hitting <tab> in the middle of words to expand them, forgetting that they aren't names and thus could not possibly be tab-completed)
00:40:20 <oerjan> it seems the information just isn't in the sandbox.
00:40:37 <moon_> also, installed openbsd on a subsystem
00:40:44 <oerjan> `` ps aux | grep oerjan
00:40:46 <HackEgo> 50000 288 11.0 0.2 4180 620 ? S 23:40 0:00 sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' '`' 'ps aux | grep oerjan' | cat \ 5000 291 32.0 0.6 19140 1600 ?
00:41:00 <moon_> but it keeps running out of space just to unpack ports.tar.gz on a 8 gb disk
00:41:01 <oerjan> `` printenv | grep oerjan
00:41:07 <moon_> ports is only 40-50mb
00:42:33 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access proc: No such file or directory
00:42:36 <HackEgo> 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 293 \ 294 \ 295 \ 296 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms
00:43:00 <oerjan> `` grep oerjan | /proc/mem
00:43:31 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /proc/mem: No such file or directory
00:43:39 <oerjan> `` grep oerjan /proc/mem
00:43:40 <HackEgo> grep: /proc/mem: No such file or directory
00:44:01 <moon_> accessing dev/mem is prohibited i beleive
00:44:08 <HackEgo> /proc/iomem \ /proc/meminfo
00:44:43 <HackEgo> cat: /dev/mem: Permission denied
00:47:32 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
00:47:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: credits: not found
00:48:26 <oerjan> btw he's dropped the R.
00:48:57 <oerjan> not that he's coming here any longer.
00:49:23 <oerjan> being all snotty professory and stuff
00:49:41 <hppavilion[1]> SMBC's setup for comic searching is really quite shit
00:50:05 <oerjan> it cannot possibly be worse than Drive's hth
00:50:37 <oerjan> Drive, the scifi comic.
00:51:13 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The "random" button's target is determined serverside when the page is loaded; so if you open "random" in a new tab twice from the same page without reloading, you will get the same comic both times
00:51:53 <hppavilion[1]> And I just discovered that the "go to most recent" button is actually calculated; so if you have a page open and a new SMBC is added and you click the "most recent" button after, it will actually go to the one that was most recent when the page was loaded
00:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> The proper way to go to a random comic is to have an intermediate page that forms a redirect to a random comic; the "random" button simply links to its URL
00:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> And the proper way to go to the most recent comic is to link to the main comic page, which generally includes the most recent comic by default
00:56:51 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe we should hack `cat so when it's called on /dev/null it prints "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
00:58:14 <moon_> like is there a way?
00:58:22 <ais523> but `cat should produce an empty output on /dev/null
00:59:34 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: because /dev/null reads as an empty file
00:59:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/output
00:59:46 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, but we'd hack `cat to special-case /dev/null
00:59:47 <ais523> cat's job is to, among other things, recreate the contents of files
01:00:11 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: then "cat | command" can act differently from "command"
01:00:12 <oerjan> it certainly _could_ break things. whether it actually will...
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01:00:25 <ais523> I can certainly imagine programs that break as a result of the identity function not being an identity
01:00:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Eh, this is #esoteric. Do we really have anything that isn't broken?
01:00:46 <oerjan> fungot: are you broken
01:00:46 <fungot> oerjan: and " current" just corresponds to the equations a k*b, b k*(a b) implies b fnord b) and 1 is slightly faster ( less slow). ( 3)
01:00:56 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, but do any programs use cat /dev/null as the identity function?
01:01:32 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well, say we want to recreate combinatory logic in bash
01:01:42 <ais523> (there doesn't have to be a reason for this, this is #esoteric)
01:02:00 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: We'd just use the actual `cat, which would be hidden somewhere else
01:02:33 <HackEgo> bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/null \ bin/delquote:e
01:03:12 <oerjan> `` rgrep null bin | sport
01:03:16 <HackEgo> 1/5:bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/n
01:03:21 <HackEgo> 2/5:ull \ bin/delquote:expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1 || exit 1 \ bin/delquote:diff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 \ Binary file bin/luac matches \ bin/etymology:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ bin/rm-p:rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/jq matches \ bin/
01:03:46 <ais523> I take it that `sport outputs the first line of a multiline command, and `spam returns subsequent lines?
01:03:50 <HackEgo> 3/5:forth:exec gforth -e "$* bye" </dev/null \ bin/define:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/searchlog matches \ bin/paste:if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ bin/runc:echo -e "$@" | gcc -trigraphs -o $t -x c - 2>/dev/null && $t \ bin/pastelog: if expr "$1" + 0
01:04:09 <oerjan> ais523: actually it's not quite line-based (yet, anyway)
01:04:24 <HackEgo> 4/5:>/dev/null 2>&1; then \ Binary file bin/lua matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches \ bin/quotes: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/translatefromto: --data-urlencode langpair="$FROM"'|'"$TO" 2> /dev/null | \ bin/ls:if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)"
01:04:34 <HackEgo> 5/5:; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi \ Binary file bin/units matches \
01:04:36 <ais523> oerjan: first output line
01:04:58 <oerjan> well i see no obvious uses of cat /dev/null, although who knows what lynx does internally...
01:05:29 <oerjan> (mind you the web proxy is probably not working anyway
01:05:45 <ais523> if we changed that to cat | gforth itd break
01:09:04 <oerjan> ais523: i don't think HackEgo's stdin is /dev/null btw, which i however consider a bug
01:09:18 <oerjan> (it's the reason for some occasional long timeouts)
01:09:21 <ais523> `` ls -l /proc/self/fd
01:09:23 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lr-x------ 1 50000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 0 -> /tty1 \ l-wx------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 1 -> pipe:[257] \ l-wx------ 1 500000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 2 -> /tty1 \ lr-x------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 3 -> /console \ l-wx------ 1 5000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 4 -> /console \ lr-x------ 1 5000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:
01:09:50 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:09:53 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnoooooodl
01:10:39 <ais523> there are some strange options there, and that pipe made me suspicious
01:10:50 <ais523> also what's up with FDs 3 and 4?
01:10:52 <oerjan> ais523: anyway that wouldn't break if the modified cat only looked at the argument line
01:11:01 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: echo: write error: Bad file descriptor
01:11:33 <ais523> oerjan: surely you'd want cat /dev/null to work the same way as cat </dev/null ?
01:12:19 <oerjan> i'm not saying this is a good idea, i'm just saying it could be done not to break things much worse than they already are.
01:12:54 <oerjan> also, you're right to be suspicious hth
01:17:52 <moon_> my god openbsd's ports is big.
01:18:01 <moon_> it ate up all the space in the usr dir
01:18:22 <moon_> and it has taken several minutes to move to main storage
01:19:37 <moon_> im going to make a larger disk next time >_>
01:19:45 <moon_> 32 gb instead of 8
01:22:08 <moon_> ill soon be talking to you all over openbsd, bbl
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01:28:19 -!- moon_ has joined.
01:28:26 <moon_> i lied, everything is stalling in openbsd >_>
01:28:32 <moon_> the download is taking too long
01:30:05 <moon_> 3-4 mb downloads are not ment to take 4 minutes internet ._
01:33:57 <moon_> lol the freebsd make 'checks wether the enviornment is sane'
01:34:05 <moon_> it would fail here.
01:34:45 <ais523> moon_: that check has succeeded even in cases where it /really/ shouldn't (e.g. C-INTERCAL running on gcc-bf)
01:35:23 <moon_> the hexchat irc client will be done in no time :P
01:36:24 <moon_> its spamming my terminal
01:50:54 <moon_> http://www.haneke.net/
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01:59:26 <oerjan> i think you catted it instead tdnh
02:00:23 <shachaf> `mk canary//cat: canary: No such file or directory
02:00:49 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
02:00:59 <HackEgo> cat: yranac: No such file or directory
02:00:59 <moon_> that was similar to the joke in output
02:01:11 <ais523> I approve of this canary
02:01:21 <moon_> output contained: 'No output.'
02:01:56 <shachaf> But making files in /hackenv is frowned upon.
02:02:23 <moon_> anways, did you all look at this: http://www.haneke.net/
02:05:55 <oerjan> moon_: yes, and i have the earworm to prove it hth
02:06:27 <moon_> the site has no sound
02:06:38 <oerjan> moon_: huh? it does for me.
02:07:25 <oerjan> i'm not sure if it's meant to be something more than a background animation...
02:07:42 <oerjan> a few test clicks did nothing, anyway
02:08:19 <moon_> but it inspired another random esolang :P
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02:09:00 <moon_> nvm someone beat me to something similart
02:09:08 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Marbelous
02:09:13 <oerjan> moon_: in that case, have you seen Rube?
02:10:22 <moon_> but im gonna go for a single char lang instead, so i might just do it.
02:10:57 <moon_> first, interpreter for a usable language
02:11:33 <oerjan> Rube is a single char lang, although Rubicon uses graphics.
02:13:06 <moon_> wait why did i say that if i have seen it? xD
02:17:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Destructible watermelon * New user account
02:18:53 <shachaf> "destructible" is usually implied.
02:18:54 <ais523> oerjan: rubicon's a single char lang internally
02:18:58 <ais523> you could just say it's using a particularly pretty font
02:20:44 <moon_> is there a good way to map a string to a grid?
02:20:55 <moon_> aka 1d array to 2d array?
02:21:04 <moon_> wait dont answer that.
02:21:36 <moon_> nvm do answer it :P
02:24:10 <Elronnd> do you want [1,2,3,4,5,6] to look like [ [1,2], [3,4], [5,6] ]?
02:24:14 <moon_> i want to map a 1 dimensional array to a 2 dimensional array in C++
02:24:18 <ais523> moon_: replace newlines with "go to the next line"
02:24:47 <Elronnd> moon_: what do you mean "map" a 1 dimensional array?
02:25:05 <moon_> apply it to a 2 dimensional array, make it 2d
02:25:15 <Elronnd> can you give me an example?
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02:25:34 * oerjan senses a certain lack of precision
02:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> Why is theft a crime, but cotheft isn't a cocrime?
02:25:58 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: cocrime is a cotheft, duh
02:26:22 <moon_> http://pastebin.com/MH4QRFGK
02:26:22 <hppavilion[1]> Theft, of course, being the decrease of another person's economic value or the exchange of goods without their consent, and cotheft being increasing the value
02:26:27 <moon_> there is your example
02:26:41 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, I have nfc what cocrime is, so maybe it is
02:27:18 <oerjan> moon_: what do you do if the length of the string is prime twh
02:27:20 <Elronnd> moon_: what if you have 1345
02:27:36 <moon_> then it would wrap around
02:27:47 <moon_> wrapped with nulls
02:28:25 <moon_> no you would have 12 34 5NULL
02:28:41 <moon_> it depends on how it is written
02:29:28 <Elronnd> moon_: so you want to split an array into an array of arrays of 2 chars each
02:29:40 <moon_> an array into a square array
02:30:08 <moon_> it is rectangulare
02:30:29 <Elronnd> also, although I don't have any experience with C/C++, wouldn't you get a type error if you tried to put a NULL in an array of int?
02:30:34 <moon_> but 12NULL 34 5, 12 34NULL 5 are examples
02:30:59 <moon_> this is an array of chars, the char there would be the 2d language's nop
02:31:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: why do you expect me to know
02:31:41 <moon_> C supports 2d arrays
02:31:58 <Elronnd> how is the rectangle size decided?
02:32:03 <moon_> i.e char 2darray[100][100]
02:32:14 <Elronnd> say you had a string 12 chars long
02:32:15 <moon_> thats what i need a way to DO
02:32:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well, you asked what happens if the length of the string is prime, so I made a guess that you understood enough to know that would be a problem
02:32:34 <hppavilion[1]> I just realized something interesting about english
02:32:48 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: I imagine that if n were prime, the 2D array would be 1xn
02:33:01 <hppavilion[1]> But which when applied to the same noun mean different things
02:33:27 <moon_> ok to avoid this problem im gonna use a fixed array
02:33:38 <Elronnd> i'm very bored and extremely tired
02:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> And they both describe that another adjective is exaggerated
02:33:44 <Elronnd> i'm very bored and extremely excited
02:33:53 <moon_> how would i apply a strin up to 10000 chars long to a 100x100 array? :P
02:34:14 <hppavilion[1]> And if you say something is "very big or something is "extremely big", they mean the same thing
02:34:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47127&oldid=46650 * Destructible watermelon * (+453) /* Looks Like */
02:34:58 <hppavilion[1]> But if you say one thing is "very big" and another thing is "extremely big", then it stands to reason that the second thing is bigger than the first
02:35:12 <hppavilion[1]> Even though "very" and "extremely" mean the same thing
02:35:13 <Elronnd> for (i=0;i==length_of_str;i++) {well
02:35:26 <Elronnd> they express different magnitudes
02:35:29 <Elronnd> but they can still be considered synonyms
02:35:59 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: When only one is used, they express roughly the same range of magnitudes
02:36:19 <hppavilion[1]> (This was inspired, of all things, by the Goldbach Conjectures)
02:36:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, i just understood enough to think of an example where moon_'s statement of the problem was underspecified.
02:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But what was the problem in the first place?
02:36:53 <Elronnd> moon_: I'm guessing that you want the sides of the rectangle to be as close as possible to each other?
02:37:18 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: they're adverbs, not adjectives hth
02:37:44 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I calculated the odds of everybody on earth sneezing at the same time
02:38:18 <hppavilion[1]> (or something; I don't remember what the math means precisely)
02:38:29 <hppavilion[1]> It's 5.2345140545750255095729057789677877107902000024178184273063118452216398192830384321642665672586107071499738573951676069816850719055839882135729586168861337085743787119721991366279460690571913008155670283808735608620… × 10^-37943769263
02:39:07 <oerjan> does C guarantee that arrays of arrays are unpadded? in that case it should be easy to cheat.
02:39:09 <moon_> im takeing that to bay12 quotes thread :P
02:39:40 <moon_> i have a programming chalange for you all, by the way
02:39:46 <Elronnd> oerjan: it's trivial to pad them, if not
02:39:51 <moon_> make a language that uses objects out of http://www.haneke.net/ for its operands
02:40:03 <moon_> and then makea interpreter
02:40:16 <moon_> you dont need all of the objects
02:41:00 <moon_> giant gif marble machine
02:42:03 <oerjan> Elronnd: i mean that you might just cast the array to a string, then copy into it
02:42:46 <oerjan> (add "pointer to" as needed)
02:43:50 <moon_> actually, memory operations would work, C/C++ store 2d arrays in a 1d format still
02:44:09 <oerjan> moon_: well i was asking whether that is guaranteed.
02:44:40 <oerjan> if not, you can always use for loops.
02:45:07 <oerjan> it seems to me that deciding the number of rows is the hardest part :)
02:45:27 <oerjan> (ideally needs a square root)
02:46:39 <moon_> so elronnd, you take it?
02:47:20 <Elronnd> moon_: here's my (very bad) pseudocode http://lpaste.net/165400
02:47:59 <moon_> im saying its very 'long' which is synonomus with big in most ways
02:48:29 <moon_> i ment in characters of text
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02:54:18 <moon_> whats the best language for code golfing?
02:55:49 <Elronnd> bash+coreutils is not that bad
02:55:52 <moon_> in some cases, yes
02:56:08 <moon_> but very rarely is brainfuck a good golfer
02:56:34 <zzo38> Best language for code golfing can depend what program, is one thing. But there is also other kind of details.
02:56:48 <moon_> but best in general is what i want lol
02:57:04 <Elronnd> is that there is no one best tool
02:57:12 <Elronnd> and you choose the one that fits the task
02:58:52 <Elronnd> someone give me something to golf
02:59:03 <lambdabot> [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
02:59:04 <lambdabot> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
02:59:24 <shachaf> > [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
02:59:27 <lambdabot> "271828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995957496696762772407663035...
02:59:35 <shachaf> > (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
02:59:38 <lambdabot> "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628...
02:59:59 <Elronnd> I don't know enough to write a PRNG regularly
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03:00:15 <moon_> golf a program that prints my username lol
03:01:38 <Elronnd> #include <stdio.h> void main(){printf("moon_");}
03:01:57 <shachaf> The first one is suboptimal and the second one is invalid.
03:02:06 <Elronnd> replace stdio.h with iostream for C++
03:02:22 <shachaf> @where+ anagol http://golf.shinh.org/
03:02:34 <shachaf> There you go. All the golfing you could ever want.
03:02:37 <moon_> nope, ?,moon_ is the one
03:02:46 <moon_> thats in Bantas by the way
03:03:11 <Elronnd> shachaf: shachaf would you rather __import__("sys").stdout.write("moon_") ?
03:12:29 <moon_> Elronnd, here, try golfing this: turn a 1d array into a 5d array http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Turn+a+1d+array+into+a+5d+array
03:13:01 <moon_> oerjan, bantas has the shortest so far: ?,moon_
03:13:07 <moon_> (bantas being a esolang)
03:13:32 <oerjan> very well, i'll do it in ///:
03:13:53 <moon_> no instaquine languages
03:14:11 <moon_> anything that is not a slash is printed in ///
03:14:24 <Elronnd> //moon_/ will also print moon_, IIRC
03:18:28 <shachaf> oerjan: that doesn't look like it's in FlooP at all hth
03:18:53 <shachaf> oerjan: what's your review of ghc 8 twh
03:20:13 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Im.
03:20:21 -!- Im has changed nick to Elronnd.
03:21:37 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Youre.
03:21:47 -!- Youre has changed nick to Elronnd.
03:22:49 <moon_> (internet relay programming)
03:23:17 <oerjan> unless it's ##irp. i've forgotten.
03:23:26 <moon_> its #irp, but its almost dead
03:23:35 <oerjan> shachaf: could use a little more salt hth
03:23:49 -!- moon_ has changed nick to worst.
03:23:52 -!- worst has changed nick to moon_.
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03:24:15 <moon_> Hello, and welcome!
03:24:30 <moon_> I hope you enjoy the unix bot, hackego (=
03:24:31 <oerjan> tip: we created it because we were sick of people doing irp in #esoteric hth
03:24:42 <moon_> `rwelcome destructible
03:24:56 <oerjan> admittedly that may have been after it got reddited.
03:25:07 <HackEgo> destructible: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:25:17 <moon_> no, rainbow welcome )=
03:25:20 <oerjan> wait, `rwelcome exists?
03:25:39 <oerjan> `` diff bin/r{,w}elcome
03:25:56 <HackEgo> cat: rwelcome: No such file or directory
03:26:04 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords
03:26:13 <moon_> it just feeds welcome to rainwords
03:26:19 <HackEgo> 1/1:lrwxrwxrwx 1 500000 0 8 Dec 9 04:12 bin/relcome -> rwelcome \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000000 0 35 Dec 9 04:12 bin/rwelcome \
03:26:37 <Elronnd> `` echo "nobody knows everything" | rainwords
03:27:36 <moon_> Destructable, hackego is real linux, and it is normal to play around with him. or just chat lol
03:27:42 <moon_> we dont need more afkers
03:27:57 <moon_> there are at least 100
03:28:01 <shachaf> The fact that you do it doesn't mean that it's normal.
03:28:19 * oerjan ties shachaf to the lawn chair
03:28:40 <shachaf> Please don't encourage other people to act as annoyingly as you do.
03:28:50 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: why would you be browsing twitter anyway?
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03:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Because I figured he might have funny tweets?
03:29:28 <moon_> its no-where near as fun as surfing pastebin for 'roblox cheats' just to laugh at the scams
03:29:56 <moon_> or surfing it for anything else in that matter
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03:32:16 <moon_> bad internet iguess
03:33:18 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, I suppose it's likely the one who visits us was just a copyleopard
03:37:10 <HackEgo> <coppro> mkx bin/5quote//quote;quote;quote;quote;quote;
03:38:28 <HackEgo> <oerjan> mkx bin/mkcmd//chmod +x "$1" && echo "$1" \ <Moon__-> ` mv mkcmd bin/mkcmd
03:39:30 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
03:39:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47128&oldid=47123 * Oerjan * (+300) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Jacek Michalak|Jacek Michalak]] ([[User talk:Jacek Michalak|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]]
03:40:34 <shachaf> `le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1
03:40:46 <Sgeo> At least Erlang/Elixir has a mutability model. I'm not sure if I actually like it though.
03:40:54 <shachaf> `sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./
03:41:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
03:41:10 -!- moon_ has joined.
03:41:17 <shachaf> Were there other useful shaventions?
03:43:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i have no idea why you think i would like that kind of twitter accounts.
03:44:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Specifically, I had no opinion on whether or not you'd approve of the account's content; I only checked what the account was about after posting it
03:45:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ziim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47129&oldid=47124 * Oerjan * (-42) /* Interpreter */ fix link
03:46:20 <HackEgo> Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something.
03:46:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
03:47:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: bat: command not found
03:47:53 <HackEgo> cat: bin/rnooooooodl: No such file or directory
03:48:25 <shachaf> oerjan: we've got another one hth
03:49:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[YABALL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47130&oldid=47125 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template
03:49:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
03:49:40 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoooodl
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03:52:05 <oerjan> *sigh* wayback _really_ should get better at ignoring robots.txt from domain squatters
03:52:36 <Elronnd> what are you trying to access?
03:52:47 <Elronnd> wayback is also a little bit buggy
03:53:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47131&oldid=47128 * Oerjan * (+26) /* External resources */ Stupid domain squatters, and also stupid wayback
03:54:31 <Elronnd> oerjan: the fact that it allows googlebot
03:54:32 <hppavilion[1]> Is it... former domain squatters put a robots.txt that bans everything, then even after the domain is obtained by proper domain users, Wayback doesn't update the robots.txt data so never saves the page?
03:54:41 <Elronnd> means that it might be in google cach
03:55:48 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I'm going to go sacrifice a human to the great god F'ngaw-t
03:57:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: apparently Hagbard Celine is a fictional character hth
03:57:37 <Elronnd> oerjan: I got a working archive for you
03:57:52 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: we've got another one hth <-- yay!
03:59:54 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
04:00:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
04:00:28 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
04:01:19 <oerjan> Elronnd: it's not in google cache because i'm looking for an _old_ version of the page.
04:01:37 <Elronnd> oerjan: what about the archive.is one
04:01:47 <Elronnd> also, it looks like it's not in google cache
04:03:18 -!- Destructible has joined.
04:03:21 <Elronnd> the other page wasn't archived, though
04:03:53 <oerjan> Elronnd: well the _real_ page went offline a decade ago, so of course google hasn't kept it.
04:04:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47132&oldid=47131 * Elronnd * (-58) fix link
04:04:41 <Elronnd> I think may be dead forever
04:05:14 <oerjan> depends. it will probably come back if the site robots.txt ever gets turned into something friendly.
04:05:24 <oerjan> because wayback _has_ it.
04:05:55 <oerjan> and also if wayback actually _implemented_ the tracking of domain changes i recall they once mentioned they wanted to do.
04:07:13 <Destructible> I came up with an idea for an esoteric language, but I'm not sure whether I should make a page for it.
04:09:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47133&oldid=47132 * Oerjan * (+43) /* External resources */ add archive link
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04:10:00 <oerjan> Destructible: we're pretty inclusive.
04:10:19 <oerjan> mind you, if it's a brainfuck derivative, you might think twice.
04:10:32 <shachaf> oerjan: in my experience authors of bf derivatives tend not to think twice hth
04:10:56 <Destructible> to some degree, it is a bit like brainfuck, but it's not a language that directly emulates brainfuck
04:11:10 <Destructible> it has a tape for memory, and moves up and down the tape
04:12:23 <oerjan> if it has more than half of the actual bf commands, even renamed, then you're pretty deep in hth
04:12:55 <Destructible> the move commands alter the numbers beneath it
04:13:29 <Destructible> and it can not change any if it tries to move back to the original position
04:13:59 <Destructible> how it changes any at all, is it pushes the tile it is on to a stack (not it's value, the position)
04:15:10 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
04:15:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47134&oldid=47133 * Oerjan * (+4) /* External resources */ italics
04:15:33 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
04:17:07 <Destructible> I'm still confused about what hth actually means. Do you just append it to the end of your sentences for fun hth
04:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[COBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47135&oldid=47122 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template and newer capture
04:18:56 <oerjan> hth can only be learned by osmosis, or possibly by someone blabbering.
04:20:24 <oerjan> `le/rn hambiguitous/We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
04:21:09 <HackEgo> We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
04:22:08 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:22:40 <oerjan> but first, you have to get into the right spirit.
04:23:05 <shachaf> `? ? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of
04:23:07 <HackEgo> ? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:23:47 <oerjan> `? misspellings of croissant
04:23:49 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:24:13 <Destructible> `le/rn love/Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
04:24:54 <oerjan> shachaf: i was getting to that part
04:25:24 <shachaf> the more he bleeds, the more he lives / he never forgets and he never forgives
04:25:32 <HackEgo> floccinaucinihilipilification? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:25:39 <oerjan> shachaf: is that one of those awkward riddles
04:26:14 <shachaf> https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/stephen-sondheim/the-ballad-of-sweeney-todd-26 hth
04:26:29 <oerjan> `? supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
04:26:30 <HackEgo> supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? ¯\(°_o)/¯
04:26:43 <oerjan> i thought we had that one.
04:27:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/supercalifragilisticexponential growth
04:27:08 <shachaf> `? supercalifragilisticexponential growth
04:27:09 <HackEgo> Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust.
04:27:25 <oerjan> shachaf: `wisdom takes ... hm is it a glob or a regex
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04:27:29 <Destructible> le/rn floccinaucinihilipilification/n. The act or habit of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of having no value or being worthless.
04:27:36 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
04:27:53 <oerjan> Destructible: um we prefer having the key in the result.
04:28:09 <shachaf> Well, I'd prefer not having that wisdom entry at all.
04:28:16 <shachaf> It's the same as what you'd find in any dictionary.
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04:28:29 <oerjan> `learn floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit
04:28:29 <oerjan> of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of
04:28:29 <oerjan> having no value or being worthless.
04:28:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'floccinaucinihilipilification': floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit
04:28:49 <oerjan> why can't irssi line joining be reliable.
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04:28:57 <shachaf> `forget floccinaucinihilipilification
04:29:25 <shachaf> The Ballad of Sweeney Todd is great.
04:29:53 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
04:29:54 <shachaf> freely flows the blood of those who moralize
04:30:11 <shachaf> oerjan: you implemented it hth
04:30:20 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
04:32:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see what that has to do with remembering its format
04:33:03 <shachaf> Well, think to yourself: Would you have bothered implementing regex matching?
04:33:15 <oerjan> if it had been easier, yes.
04:33:35 <oerjan> and i'd thought of how to do it first.
04:34:11 <shachaf> Wait, now I can't remember whether you or I implemented this.
04:34:17 <HackEgo> noooodl//noooooooooooooooooooooooodl is the correct spelling
04:34:21 <shachaf> `` hogue bin/wisdom | sport
04:34:28 <HackEgo> 1/4:<shachaf> ` sed -i \'s#/"#//"#\' bin/wisdom \ <oerjan> mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooooodl; cat "$F" | rnooooodl \ <oerjan> mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*""$(echo "$1" | lowercase)""*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" |
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04:42:56 <oerjan> i don't think it applies rnooodl on input, shachaf
04:43:04 <oerjan> . o O ( at least i hope so )
04:43:18 <shachaf> It tries to apply the inverse on input.
04:43:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
04:43:32 <shachaf> But I was hoping it applies it on output before printing that ridiculous Unicode face.
04:44:08 <shachaf> lynn: have you considered moving to new england
04:44:15 <shachaf> lynn: and changing your name to yankee noodl
04:44:20 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\?: No such file or directory
04:44:54 <Elronnd> oerjan: I was the first to
04:45:05 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnoooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" |
04:45:07 <shachaf> lynn: In fact, move to Connecticut.
04:45:26 <Elronnd> you hang around this channel too?
04:45:33 <oerjan> Elronnd: i didn't use `` so it doesn't apply
04:46:16 <Elronnd> that's like saying "I went to https://youtu.be/something instead of https://youtube.com/watch?v=something, so I watched a different video"
04:46:36 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
04:46:52 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoo
04:47:12 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \
04:47:26 <HackEgo> cat: bin//: Is a directory
04:47:36 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\: No such file or directory
04:48:19 <shachaf> `` echo ooodles of nooodls
04:48:20 <HackEgo> ooooooooodles of nooooooooodls
04:48:36 <oerjan> `echo ooodles of nooodls
04:49:15 <oerjan> `run echo ooodles of nooodls
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04:49:36 <oerjan> `` echo -e '\e[33mfoo'
04:49:55 <Elronnd> ``echo 'this has\x034colour'
04:49:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found
04:50:02 <Elronnd> `` echo 'this has\x034colour'
04:50:08 <Elronnd> `` echo -e 'this has\x034colour'
04:50:33 <oerjan> i don't think alias is going to work
04:50:45 <oerjan> there is no persistent shell session
04:50:58 <Elronnd> `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' > ~/.bashrc
04:51:07 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: alias: echo: not found
04:51:10 <oerjan> oh, and /tmp isn't persistent either
04:51:27 <Elronnd> `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' >> /etc/bashrc
04:51:28 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /etc/bashrc: Permission denied
04:51:39 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/bashrc: No such file or directory
04:52:00 <oerjan> i don't think you should change echo, anyway.
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04:52:25 <oerjan> there are already scripts depending on it
04:53:21 <oerjan> actually, echo is a bash builtin isn't it, so you cannot really make it behave differently that way.
04:54:08 <shachaf> Every time you run a command, HackEgo boots up a virtual machine and runs your code in it.
04:54:52 <oerjan> i guess not having $HOME be in the repository part is a security feature.
04:58:35 <shachaf> I guess the VM doesn't literally pull itself up by its own bootstraps.
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05:49:09 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I
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07:42:13 <Vorpal> <Elronnd> shachaf: *boots* up a VM? <-- iirc, yes, pretty much. But more of a container kind of. It used User Mode Linux last I checked, which was a couple of years ago
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07:42:26 <Vorpal> So it is not like starting vmware
07:43:29 <HackEgo> Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
07:43:58 <shachaf> Well, I agree that I have no idea.
07:44:35 <HackEgo> <oerjan> revert \ <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ Initial import.
07:45:19 <shachaf> Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring?
07:45:47 <myname> because he's not vorpal kick'asso maybe
07:45:55 <lambdabot> oerjan said 3h 45m 27s ago: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content
07:46:13 <oerjan> `learn Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
07:46:22 <HackEgo> Relearned 'vorpal': Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
07:46:30 <shachaf> You should talk about it in #trains.
07:47:15 <shachaf> i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of #trains
07:47:42 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well the original intention was probably to allow someone to hide files that were exposed by accident.
07:47:53 <Vorpal> <shachaf> Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring? <-- Ask ehird?
07:48:00 <oerjan> but then there was the original complication that owners of sites change.
07:48:19 <shachaf> ehird hasn't been here for a long time.
07:48:24 <shachaf> At least by a nick that I recognize.
07:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's kind of a stupid rule though. Squatters fucking things up is MUCH more likely than accidentally exposing a file that is THAT dangerous but completely unprotected otherwise
07:48:42 <Vorpal> oerjan: well yes, my day to day job is boring unless you find hard real time cool (which I do)
07:49:19 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, don't /all/ programmers mostly work on boring machines?
07:49:27 <Vorpal> shachaf: I write control software for really big mining machines. Autonomous ones. Drills holes that you put explosives in (for open pit mines)
07:49:51 <shachaf> Oh, not tunnel boring machines?
07:50:14 <oerjan> drilling is boring hth
07:50:16 <Vorpal> The largest model weighs 200 metric tons.
07:50:34 <Vorpal> Top speed of 5 km/h. 22 meters long, 30 meter high tower
07:50:42 <myname> bagger 288 bagger bagger 288
07:50:48 <shachaf> See, those are the kinds of facts that I bet #trains would enjoy.
07:51:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ehird's relation to hagb4rd is that he was probably the first to ban him hth
07:51:43 <myname> https://youtu.be/azEvfD4C6ow
07:51:55 <Vorpal> shachaf: these appear to be the electric version (see the massive cable?): http://www.coaleducation.org/technology/Surface/images/PV351-2.jpg
07:52:27 <Vorpal> That is 1.5 kV 3-phase, and I forget how many amps. But quite a few
07:53:32 <Vorpal> shachaf: also what is #trains about?
07:53:42 <Vorpal> but why did you mention it now?
07:54:16 <shachaf> It's about trains but I think they've talked about boring machines before.
07:55:13 <Vorpal> I find trains pretty boring
07:56:20 <Vorpal> oh yeah, I played OpenTTD, those were fun to mess with
07:56:48 <Vorpal> btw, wasn't it fizzie that proved OpenTTD to be turing complete?
07:56:55 <Vorpal> or at least universal logic
07:57:26 <shachaf> http://zem.fi/2005-10-21-ttd-logic ?
07:58:12 <shachaf> Actually I have no idea, I never played OpenTTD.
07:58:16 <shachaf> I did play Factorio, though.
07:59:30 <Vorpal> ooh, I haven't. It looks interesting though
07:59:50 <myname> i'd love factorio for android
08:00:08 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'd love an android that could play factorio
08:00:22 <Vorpal> myname: would the interface work though? it seems you need to click a lot of small things. Also the performance once the factory gets massive?
08:01:01 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: eh I think it might work on a recent high end tablet. On a phone the interface would suck though
08:01:05 <shachaf> Oh, well, you wouldn't want to run the same read-only command twice. That would be botspam.
08:02:14 <hppavilion[1]> `learn h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan.
08:02:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'h4gb4rd': h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan.
08:03:03 <shachaf> You should take a wisdom entry course from oerjan.
08:03:36 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
08:03:47 <shachaf> Factorio even supports multiplayer. It's great.
08:04:08 <shachaf> Because your wisdom entries would be improveed.
08:04:23 <Vorpal> my back tick key is stuck... it doesn't go down
08:05:20 <Vorpal> I'll better remove the cap and check the mechanism below. the mechanism is complicated on this laptop though iirc
08:05:54 <hppavilion[1]> Do you ever find an xkcd and think "how could explainxkcd possibly say anything about this?"
08:07:06 <Vorpal> aha, a bit of hard material under the scissor mechanism ´´´```
08:08:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ǹicé´: not found
08:08:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: pried the debris out with a needle, since I couldn't remove the mechanism itself due to the way it was stuck by the debris
08:08:47 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: now you made me check explainxkcd for that one
08:08:51 <shachaf> How many debris were there?
08:10:06 <Vorpal> Hm what is the singular of debris?
08:10:18 <Vorpal> I guess it is uncountable
08:10:35 <shachaf> debris floating in de breeze
08:10:45 <Vorpal> My spell checker doesn't like debri at least
08:12:37 <shachaf> oerjan: is your good twin's full name professørjan
08:12:51 <Vorpal> Hm anyone used hg-git? I don't want to learn git but I want to fork a project on github. I could fork it over to bitbucket, but then it would be harder to discover for other people looking if someone fixed this thing or not
08:13:21 <Vorpal> And the original project appears to be somewhere between maintenance mode and straight up dead
08:14:07 <shachaf> I suspect learning git is easier than figuring out hg-git
08:15:03 <\oren\> git is a mystery inside an enigma, wrapped in a horrible user interface
08:15:05 <Vorpal> shachaf: is there any good GUI for git?
08:15:22 <\oren\> there isn't even a good CLI for git
08:15:26 <Vorpal> I would say that for learning a new version control system, something like TortoiseHg is great
08:15:35 <shachaf> There's some Tcl/Tk GUI but I don't know if it's good.
08:15:38 <Vorpal> so something similar for git would be useful
08:15:53 <shachaf> Hmm, GitHub wrote a GUI for Windows, if you use Windows and GitHub.
08:16:08 <shachaf> Ah, https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux
08:16:57 <shachaf> I just use the command line.
08:17:08 <\oren\> basically the only way to solve most problems is to copy the files you changed, redownload the repository, and then copy them back
08:17:30 <Vorpal> shachaf: linux user here
08:17:41 <shachaf> \oren\: Are you talking about GitHub's GUI?
08:18:50 <\oren\> shachaf: the one from github. I used it a lot for my video game course's final project
08:20:25 <shachaf> Just use the command line tool.
08:20:43 <shachaf> I don't know why people say that git is so complicated.
08:20:47 <\oren\> it makes it easy to create various states that are "broken" and can't be fixed without either complex command line screwery, or by doing what I just said
08:21:10 <shachaf> I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do.
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08:21:39 <\oren\> shachaf: the issue is that there are far more states than in other VCS's
08:21:48 <shachaf> And it's almost impossible to accidentally lose data (once you've committed it) or get into a state that you can't recover from.
08:21:51 <shachaf> There's always the reflog.
08:23:00 <shachaf> \oren\: I made some pretty embarrassing git mistakes in the past.
08:23:38 <shachaf> But you just need to get a reasonable mental model of what the commit graph looks like.
08:24:00 <shachaf> I think it's pretty similar to hg but I haven't used hg very much.
08:27:01 <\oren\> in particular git could do without the entire concept of stashing
08:27:01 <shachaf> `learn The English, the English, the English are best; / I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.
08:27:42 <shachaf> I think stashing is pretty useful.
08:27:55 <shachaf> But if you don't like it you don't have to use it.
08:28:12 <\oren\> shachaf: that's not what I've experienced
08:28:27 <shachaf> Stashing? That's an entirely local thing.
08:28:35 <shachaf> Don't run "git stash" and you don't have to deal with stashes.
08:28:57 <Vorpal> <shachaf> I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do. <-- I'm used to using hg. Used it for ages.
08:29:12 <Vorpal> From my understanding branches in git are quite different than branches in mercurial though?
08:29:38 <shachaf> Maybe. What are branches in Mercurial?
08:30:22 <\oren\> staging could be entirely done away with. it has no purpose it seems, other than to increase the number of states my working copy can be in
08:31:42 <Vorpal> each commit belongs to a branch. You can at any point create a new branch from a given commit, by specifying a new branch name in the commit. You can only push (ignoring --force) if each named branch only has one head. Otherwise you have to merge in that branch so that you only have one head.
08:32:04 <Vorpal> If you want more than one head, use a named branch
08:32:30 <shachaf> It looks like a git branch is roughly equivalent to an hg bookmark?
08:32:50 <Vorpal> Hm, I haven't used hg bookmarks. Not directly at least
08:33:07 <Vorpal> I think mq uses them internally. It is like an easily movable tag?
08:33:32 <shachaf> Does an hg commit (if there is such a thing) "belong" to a branch in some sense?
08:33:54 <shachaf> In git you just have a graph of commits, where each commit beyond the first has one or more parents.
08:34:07 <shachaf> A branch is just a file that has a commit hash in it.
08:34:20 <Vorpal> shachaf: and having multiple heads is okay and won't cause complaints when you push?
08:34:39 <Vorpal> "Bookmarks can be used as an alternative to NamedBranches for tracking multiple lines of development. Systems like Mercurial, CVS, and Subversion store their branch information as a permanent part of each commit. This is useful for future auditing of long-lived branches, as it's always possible to identify which branch a commit was introduced on. Git, by contrast, has "branches" that are not stored in h
08:34:39 <Vorpal> istory, which is useful for working with numerous short-lived feature branches, but makes future auditing impossible. Mercurial's bookmark feature is analogous to Git's branching scheme, but can also be used in conjunction with Mercurial's traditional named branches."
08:35:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: a head is a commit with no children. The tip of the history.
08:35:37 <shachaf> When you `git gc`, all the commits that aren't reachable via branches (or tags, which are effectively immutable branches) are deleted.
08:35:37 <Vorpal> You can end up with multiple heads, which you then either merge or rebase.
08:36:02 <Vorpal> so it just strips part of the history
08:36:12 <Vorpal> shachaf: you can't move a tag in git?
08:36:13 <shachaf> Well, it's not the history of anything that you care about.
08:36:39 <Vorpal> You can in hg, since the tags are just a bunch of revision IDs and names in a file .hgtags in the root of the repo
08:36:49 <Vorpal> Just append a new line overriding the old tag
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08:37:11 <shachaf> I understand what a head is, but what do you mean by multiple heads?
08:38:14 <Vorpal> shachaf: well if you have more than one commit that has no children, in the same named branch, you don't have a clear "most recent" tip in that branch. Okay?
08:38:29 <shachaf> In git a branch is just a head, I guess.
08:38:50 <Vorpal> I guess in git the gc command would get rid of it?
08:38:54 <shachaf> (Well, it might have children, but they're not visible from the branch.)
08:38:58 <Vorpal> which sounds dangerous
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08:39:31 <shachaf> A GC should never delete anything that you care about, because you can just keep a GC root referring to it.
08:39:52 <Vorpal> right. but that sounds complicated
08:40:07 <shachaf> I don't know how you'd end up in that situation, really.
08:40:07 <Vorpal> When would you end up with stuff you don't care about anyway
08:40:21 <shachaf> Well, maybe you rewrote history to squash some commits together.
08:40:36 <shachaf> Or maybe you deleted a branch. The contents of the branch are still available until you GC.
08:40:43 <Vorpal> shachaf: I assume you can't rewrite history you already pushed?
08:40:55 <Vorpal> Or delete a branch that is pushed
08:41:26 <shachaf> Well, you can do whatever you want, but you generally shouldn't push changes to a remote branch that aren't descendants of it.
08:41:42 <shachaf> You can delete a branch that you pushed. You can always recreate it by getting the remote branch.
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08:41:49 <Vorpal> In hg each commit has a phase: secret, draft, public. As soon as you push (or someone pulls from you) the commit is set to public. You can force change it back to draft, but that is a faux pas that could lead to all sorts of headaches down the line.
08:42:11 <Vorpal> You can only perform history editing on draft commits. Oh and secret commits are excluded from being pushed or pulled
08:42:20 <Vorpal> otherwise secret and draft are the same
08:42:24 <Vorpal> commits default to draft
08:42:48 <shachaf> A git branch is literally implemented as a file: A branch foo is a file .git/refs/heads/foo containing a sha1 hash.
08:43:10 <shachaf> I guess there's no equivalent state to keep track of for whether a branch has been pushed or not.
08:43:12 <Vorpal> Can't say I know how hg implements all that stuff. Don't need to deal with it normally
08:43:36 <shachaf> Well, if you prefer, "branches" are just a key-value map : String -> SHA1
08:44:18 <shachaf> If you try to push something to a remote branch that isn't a descendant, you'll get an error if you don't force-push.
08:45:22 <Vorpal> still it seems that git and hg have quite different models. Resulting in very different idiomatic ways to use them
08:45:37 <shachaf> That sounds a bit more plausible now.
08:47:43 <Vorpal> shachaf: is there anything like MQ in git? It is basically a version controlled way to have local commits that you work on, and update. Possibly merging several of them, reordering and so on
08:47:59 <Vorpal> But the great thing is that you version control the "patch queue" as it is called
08:48:14 <Vorpal> Meaning you can go back to an earlier state of your local unpushed commits
08:48:14 <shachaf> "MQ is rarely needed for new Mercurial users. If you're used to it and you like it, by all means, keep using it. But if you are learning Mercurial, instead use modern tools, such as hg rebase, hg histedit, hg graft, hg strip, hg strip --keep, and hg commit --amend. Check the documentation for each of these commands."
08:48:25 <shachaf> Those "modern tools" sound very similar to git tools.
08:48:33 <shachaf> For example git rebase and git commit --amend
08:48:46 <Vorpal> shachaf: yeah I know, but I like that MQ allows me to version control my history editing. I don't think the more modern tools do
08:49:17 <shachaf> Well, you can always keep a branch referring to your pre-history-rewriting commit.
08:49:24 <shachaf> But I guess that's more manual than you like.
08:50:07 <Vorpal> well mq is semi-manual. You have to remember to commit the current state of the queue. But other than that, it takes care of itself until you need to revert it, at which point it is a bit of work (but hopefully that is rare)
08:50:07 <shachaf> So there's the git reflog, which just keeps track of the states that a branch has been in.
08:50:41 <shachaf> That's not an explicit commit, but you can ask "what commit was this branch pointing to X operations ago or at time Y".
08:50:46 <Vorpal> shachaf: but I guess gc messes that up?
08:51:01 <shachaf> Those aren't GC roots so they might get collected, yes.
08:51:15 <shachaf> You can turn off GC if you like.
08:51:21 <shachaf> Normally it only deletes things over 30 days old, I think.
08:51:43 <Vorpal> Hm, when you strip something in mercurial, it saves a bundle with all the commits you stripped in .hg/strip-backup or something like that
08:51:56 <Vorpal> You could manually clean it, but it would never be auto-collected
08:52:33 <HackEgo> hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
08:52:36 <Vorpal> But that is a non-issue, since stripping commits is a rare operation
08:53:00 <shachaf> Oh, you can disable GC for a particular branch's reflog.
08:53:30 <shachaf> I don't think this is intended for quite the same thing that you're thinking of using it for, but it could work, I guess.
08:53:31 <Vorpal> well having it automatically "commit" on each operation is neat, I'll agree
08:53:33 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/hagb4rd
08:54:18 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull Taneb
08:54:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: basically I use mq at work when working on a large feature, it allows me to work all over the place and split the stuff into logical commits for each sub-feature or part touched.
08:54:33 <shachaf> `` ln -sf hagb4rd wisdom/h4gb4rd
08:55:21 <HackEgo> hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
08:55:24 <shachaf> You can revert if you like.
08:55:32 <shachaf> I didn't like the other entry very much.
08:55:40 <oerjan> no, i thought you'd done it the wrong way.
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08:56:53 <Vorpal> shachaf: what about hg record? Allows you to select which part of a file to include in a commit. Basically asks for each "section" of the diff
08:57:10 <Vorpal> useful if you realise you want to do something in two commits
08:58:31 <Vorpal> shachaf: how do I list outgoing/incoming changes before I push/pull so that I can check that I don't have stuff I'm pushing/pulling that I didn't intend to
08:59:21 <Vorpal> hg out basically lists what would be pushed, if you were to push. Same for hg in and pulling
08:59:26 <shachaf> git pull does two things: git fetch, which fetches a remote repository's branches, and then git merge of the remote branch into the local branch.
08:59:50 <shachaf> You can do it manually. git fetch, and then (say you're on the branch master) you have the remote branch at origin/master and the local branch at master.
08:59:55 <shachaf> Then you can do whatever you want.
09:00:12 <Vorpal> shachaf: so no way to see what git fetch would fetch without actually adding it to your local repo?
09:00:20 <Vorpal> This is especially useful when pushing
09:00:23 <shachaf> Well, it doesn't modify your local branches.
09:00:31 <shachaf> It just modifies your snapshot of the remote repository.
09:00:37 <Vorpal> But the pushing case is more interesting anyway
09:00:55 <Vorpal> I want to make sure I don't push, a commit "LOCAL: ADD DEBUG PRINTS" or something by mistake
09:01:04 <shachaf> Well, you can git fetch and then do whatever you want.
09:01:17 <shachaf> Examine your local master and origin/master, see the differences, etc.
09:01:22 <shachaf> And then push when you're happy.
09:01:33 <Vorpal> Oh so fetching results in you getting an extra branch that represents the remote repo?
09:01:37 <Vorpal> I guess that would work
09:01:52 <shachaf> Right. Well, you get a bunch of branches corresponding to the remote branches.
09:02:19 <Vorpal> also that is a weird way to do it. So branches are local to the repository?
09:02:26 <shachaf> And the local branch you're pushing is presumably a descendant of a remote branch.
09:02:49 <shachaf> Yes, a branch is just a name for a commit.
09:03:10 <shachaf> Often you have a local branch that tracks a remote branch, but you can have private branches etc., no problem.
09:03:39 <Vorpal> hm and I guess you can push a branch to the remote side, otherwise you couldn't create new branches on, say, github
09:05:47 <shachaf> It's a very simple model. If anything it's maybe too simple, so maybe sometimes you need to do strange things to get to the state that you want.
09:07:48 <Vorpal> To me it seems hg's branch model is more sensible. And git's branch model, like hg bookmarks seems mostly pointless
09:08:06 <shachaf> I guess I should use hg sometime to figure out whether that's true.
09:08:55 <shachaf> @google hg branches vs git branches
09:08:55 <lambdabot> https://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/mercurial-vs-git-its-all-in-the-branches/
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09:09:51 <shachaf> hm, https://felipec.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/no-mercurial-branches-are-still-not-better-than-git-ones-response-to-jhws-more-on-mercurial-vs-git-with-graphs/
09:10:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: also mercurial has a really kick ass GUI. TortoiseHg is *really* good
09:10:21 <Vorpal> and of course opinions will differ
09:12:19 <Vorpal> "Repository structure: Mercurial doesn’t allow octopus merges (with more than two parents), nor tagging non-commit objects.
09:12:29 <Vorpal> Whaaat? How do you merge with more than 2 parents?
09:12:37 <Vorpal> That seems... terribly complicated?
09:12:45 <shachaf> I don't know that I've ever done it.
09:12:50 <Vorpal> Most merge tools are 3-way
09:13:26 <Vorpal> shachaf: I assume git supports external GUI merge tools?
09:13:39 <Vorpal> I personally use BeyondCompare (not open, nor free, but really really good)
09:13:47 <shachaf> http://www.gitguys.com/topics/merging-with-a-gui/
09:14:46 <shachaf> Anyway a merge with more than two parents seems like it might be complicated to actually do, but what it is doesn't seem very complicated.
09:15:39 <Vorpal> "Mercurial uses rename tracking, while Git uses rename detection to deal with file renames
09:15:56 <Vorpal> anyway what does it mean with rename detection?
09:16:07 <shachaf> I don't think there's an explicit notion of a file being renamed.
09:16:11 <Vorpal> It doesn't track in the commit that a rename was from a specific file to another?
09:16:17 <shachaf> It's just a deletion and a creation.
09:16:35 <shachaf> A git commit is roughly just a snapshot of a directory tree.
09:16:38 <Vorpal> That seems like it is a loss of useful information when doing merges with conflicts?
09:16:43 <shachaf> I guess that's different from hg.
09:16:48 <shachaf> Maybe it is, I don't know.
09:17:03 <Vorpal> if someone moved the file I did changes in, how does it figure out to apply my changes to that other file instead
09:17:13 <shachaf> With rename detection, I guess?
09:17:45 <Vorpal> seems more brittle if a lot of things changed in the file as well
09:17:55 <Vorpal> or many files were renamed in the same commit
09:18:00 <shachaf> I've had issues with that occasionally.
09:18:42 <shachaf> But a git commit isn't a diff from the previous commit. It's just a snapshot of a tree.
09:18:53 <shachaf> There are one or more parent pointers, which you can use to compute a diff.
09:19:15 <Vorpal> I guess a hg commit *is* a diff
09:19:27 <Vorpal> internally I don't know if it is or not though
09:19:44 <shachaf> Well, it keeps track of rename information one way or another.
09:21:46 <shachaf> Anyway, now that you learned all these details, you'll have to try git out.
09:25:15 <shachaf> I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch.
09:25:44 <shachaf> I guess you just have different notion of what a branch is in hg.
09:26:09 <shachaf> All the work that goes into a feature, or something like that. You can put all your commits and things in it, and eventually clean it up when you want to merge/push.
09:28:51 <Vorpal> <shachaf> I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch. <-- you don't. It is a temporary state after you pulled remote changes but before you rebased or merged
09:29:27 <shachaf> So it sounds like an equivalent of git's origin/foo in that case.
09:29:34 <shachaf> Where origin is the repository you fetched from.
09:30:47 <Vorpal> shachaf: a branch in hg might be the work a different team is working on. It is for big changes. And it is for a release with only bug fixes (as opposed to "default" in hg / "master" in git)
09:31:14 <Vorpal> it is usually not for something short lived
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09:31:34 <HackEgo> Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
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09:33:16 <shachaf> Vorpal: What do you do for something short-lived?
09:34:01 <Vorpal> shachaf: Usually just having multiple heads, then merging it and pushing it.
09:34:22 <shachaf> Often I have a bunch of branches in my repository for various work I've done.
09:34:34 <shachaf> As I finish it I merge/rebase them onto master and push.
09:34:42 <shachaf> Is there an equivalent to that sort of thing?
09:34:56 <Vorpal> I usually don't work that way. I normally work on one or two things at a time. I guess for you there could be bookmarks then?
09:35:14 <Vorpal> Also you can have multiple MQ queues, but again I rarely use that
09:35:31 <Vorpal> I don't think I ever used more than one MQ queue
09:35:54 <shachaf> Also at work I use Phabricator which has a completely different workflow.
09:36:07 <shachaf> It was developed at Facebook, which uses hg, so presumably there's a way to make it work there.
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09:37:07 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
09:37:23 <shachaf> Please keep your read-only bot queries to /msg unless they're relevant to other people.
09:37:40 <Vorpal> shachaf: huh never heard of that one
09:37:58 <shachaf> How do you do code review?
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09:38:54 <Destructible> *some gimmick about knowing things and a positive thing being related*
09:39:21 <Destructible> so, anyway I reckon I'll add a page for my language idea, however
09:39:54 <Destructible> I'm not sure whether it would count as a derivative of brainfuck
09:41:13 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Good rule of thumb: If it could conceivably be a brainfuck derivative, don't even talk about it
09:41:34 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Pretend that you never thought of it and step twice in the river of lice to atone for your sins
09:42:18 <Destructible> ok, I guess I'll just not post it as a derivative
09:42:39 <Vorpal> <shachaf> How do you do code review? <-- at work? Part of the web software we use on our servers with hg and bug management and all that.
09:42:41 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Non-attribution is a heinous crime in this case
09:43:02 <Vorpal> shachaf: not phabricator though, different one
09:43:35 <Destructible> manipulating data happens with moving, instead of a seperate command
09:43:45 <Vorpal> shachaf: Called FogBugz. I have never used any other proprietary one. It is okay I guess.
09:44:19 <Vorpal> I think the review part is some add on though, not the standard kiln one
09:45:52 <Destructible> the main feature of the program is the fact that the only way to change any values not in a straight line (because if you move back to a previous point, all the bits return to previous value) is )
09:46:41 <Destructible> to use the teleport function, which pops the top value of the stack and transports the pointer to that spot
09:46:55 <shachaf> I don't like GitHub's implementation of it via pull requests very much.
09:47:09 <Vorpal> shachaf: oh? I should probably learn how those works btw
09:47:20 <shachaf> Which is a shame because so many projects use GitHub now.
09:47:47 <shachaf> I've historically refused to use pull requests.
09:47:50 <Vorpal> shachaf: anyway, how did you come into contact with Kiln?
09:47:51 <shachaf> I just send people patches.
09:48:12 <shachaf> I think I read about it at hginit.com.
09:48:38 <shachaf> Which is half Kiln advertisement half hg tutorial.
09:48:55 <Vorpal> the problem with a patch it might not be obvious where in the history it applies. And even if you figure it out you have to rebase/merge. Mostly an issue in a highly active project
09:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> zeugmas must be a massive pain in the ass for translators
09:56:01 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: Because how do you translate such a thing?
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09:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> It loses impactfulness when you use different words
09:59:24 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: why does it do that? You assumed I know what that language is?
09:59:48 <Vorpal> I assume "zeugmas" is a language? Or is it a specific word?
10:00:08 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: okay, what does it mean then?
10:00:16 <hppavilion[1]> It's where a word is used only once, but has different meanings when applied to different parts of the sentence
10:00:27 <hppavilion[1]> "You are free to execute your laws, and your citizens, as you see fit"
10:01:00 <hppavilion[1]> In this case, "execute your laws" means to enact the laws and "execute your citizens" means to state-sanctionedly kill them
10:01:06 <shachaf> I think people call that zeugma but maybe it would more accurately be called syllepsis.
10:01:46 <shachaf> There's a famous song by Flanders and Swann that uses these things a lot.
10:02:19 <shachaf> It's clever but the subject matter is distasteful.
10:05:15 <hppavilion[1]> If only there was some way for me to express the ease with which I found that... Some sort of... Button...
10:05:52 <shachaf> If it was in nice mode it might be excusable.
10:08:06 <shachaf> I wonder why the Wikipedia page for that song says that it's about "seduction" rather than "rape".
10:08:57 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Have_Some_Madeira_M%27Dear&diff=514192267&oldid=491132795
10:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Probably because it was intended to be about seduction at the time (1967, for cthulhhu's sake), and that was how it would have been interpreted contemporarily; culture has changed by now, I would say for the better if I wasn't too biased to judge, but if 1967 was different, it's more accurate to refer to it in the way 1967-ians would have seen it than how we now see it
10:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I got about 20 seconds into the YouTube video before I decided it probably wasn't my taste
10:13:19 <shachaf> Well, I'd suggest that you read the lyrics before jumping to defend that edit.
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10:16:25 <hppavilion[1]> From tvtropes: "Plots, Characters, and Conflict are tropes, and literally no proper story can be told without them (whatever form they take)."
10:17:35 <shachaf> Well, "plot" is just "what happens", so a story without a plot would be one where nothing happened.
10:18:12 <shachaf> Characters are probably not necessary, if that means sentient characters, at least.
10:18:16 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I think characters is the only one you can really get away with
10:18:16 <Vorpal> you can tell a story without conflict though I think. Though making it engaging might be harder
10:18:18 <shachaf> Conflict is probably not necessary.
10:19:00 <shachaf> Keith Johnstone talks about storytelling in his excellent book _Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre_ (and also his other book _Impro for Storytellers_).
10:19:03 <Vorpal> But consider things like some gag-a-day comic strips. They might not have conflict all the time.
10:19:11 <Vorpal> Sometimes they definitely though
10:19:37 <Vorpal> though I guess you could argue that is not a story as such
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11:34:53 <boily> fungot: fungellot.
11:34:54 <fungot> boily: so be it. :( syntax-rules is too weak for them. i'm straight because that's what sicp is, eopl isn't.
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12:55:04 <fizzie> My phone doesn't like being back in Finland. :/
12:55:12 <fizzie> The one with a Finnish SIM in it, that is.
12:55:38 <fizzie> It's been fine in UK in roaming mode, but now it's all "network not available" when it's back in the operator's own network.
12:56:55 <int-e> can a comment on github link to an issue in a way that its status is visible? it seems a bit silly to comment on another issue just to get a mention, with status, in one's own.
13:02:51 <int-e> well, why don't I try #github
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13:31:16 <Vorpal> Trying to find a library to calculate sunset/sunrise times in erlang. Not hard to implement, but why reinvent the wheel. However googling for this turned out to be surprisingly difficult, due to mostly finding web site telling me when the sun sets in Erlang, China. Which is apparently a place
13:32:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47136 * IAM * (+2213) Created page with "'''BF+BF''' is a esoteric programming language that is a combination of Befunge and Brainfuck Extended Type I. I don't have the time to write this fancily, so I'll just includ..."
13:33:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47137&oldid=47096 * IAM * (+12)
13:37:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47138&oldid=46850 * IAM * (+13)
13:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47139&oldid=47138 * IAM * (+2)
13:38:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47140&oldid=47136 * IAM * (+13)
13:38:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47141&oldid=47140 * IAM * (+2)
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13:50:38 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, it seems some of the newer characters you've added to the font don't show up in http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , as if the font was older than the demo page
13:51:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: ah, sorry, they're better now
13:52:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh nice, you've added some of the rarer CJK repetition markers
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15:42:24 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, and yes. The weird thing is, I swapped the SIM cards (one UK, one Finnish) between the two phones (Nexus 6, Nexus 5X) and now they're both happy.
15:44:25 <fizzie> And I don't think it's just the usual delay for registering to the network; I had been here for almost a day, and rebooted the phone a couple of times.
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15:56:37 <FreeFull> Maybe it'll work if you swap again now
15:57:25 <b_jonas> FreeFull: maybe the phones are locked to a provider? or one of the phones is old or something?
15:57:33 <fizzie> Possibly. I had similar trouble last time as well, again fixed by swapping, and then *un*fixed by swapping back. Then I just kept fiddling at it (including flashing a newer Android build on the phone) and eventually it started working.
15:57:38 <fizzie> They're both retail Nexus devices.
15:57:42 <b_jonas> it might be just random stupidity of the phons
15:58:28 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok, now explain what that means to someone who doesn't follow android phone stuff. how old are they?
15:59:00 <fizzie> I don't really remember. 5X came out in 2015.
15:59:20 <b_jonas> ah, they're not even in order
15:59:29 <fizzie> It's a size-related name.
16:00:38 <b_jonas> although about cards, have they invented a sixth SIM card size yet?
16:00:44 <fizzie> The 5" Nexus 5 is older, the 6" Nexus 6 was I think 2014, and last year they released the pair of Nexus 5X (5.2") and Nexus 6P (...5.9"?) about the same size.
16:01:16 <int-e> http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-6 http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-5x ... useful url scheme
16:01:42 <fizzie> I didn't even know they had a fifth.
16:01:51 <int-e> october 2014; end of september 2015
16:01:57 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_identity_module#Formats
16:02:41 <fizzie> Does that eSIM thing even count?
16:02:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: why wouldn't it count?
16:03:54 <fizzie> Well, you did say "SIM card size".
16:04:52 <b_jonas> it still has the same functionality as a SIM card
16:04:54 <int-e> hmm, at least it's a standardized format
16:04:56 <b_jonas> I don't care what shape it has
16:05:23 <int-e> the non-full-size SIMs aren't much of cards either
16:05:38 <fizzie> No, but at least they're the sort of thing you stick in a device.
16:05:44 <fizzie> Not something soldered in.
16:06:07 <b_jonas> fizzie: I think they're only optionally soldered in
16:06:17 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Embedded_SIM_from_M2M_supplier_Eseye_with_an_adapter_board_for_evaluation_in_a_Mini-SIM_socket_blurred.jpg looks like you could have a socket
16:06:53 <int-e> but it's hard to tell
16:07:10 <b_jonas> but even if it has to be soldered in, it's functionally the same
16:07:12 <fizzie> "Photograph showing an Embedded SIM also known as a chip SIM as used in Machine to Machine (M2M) Applications on business card for scale. Also shows an adapter board to allow the embedded SIM card to be evaluated in a 2FF SIM socket."
16:07:13 <b_jonas> just a bit harder to replace
16:08:28 <fizzie> Have it your way; I'll still consider there's 4 "SIM card sizes" the way I interpret it.
16:09:43 <int-e> this is a bit like the Hitchhiker's trilogy.
16:10:03 <int-e> the term "card" becomes increasingly inapplicable
16:10:34 <int-e> (oh I spelled that correctly)
16:10:47 <fizzie> HackEgovariant: adj., very slow.
16:11:48 <int-e> ah, CaC still provides me with the usual level of fun... "[142454.411715] EXT4-fs (dm-0): Remounting filesystem read-only"
16:12:50 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/PITQ
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16:25:24 <tswett> So I think this is a Church numeral for Graham's number:
16:25:25 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:26:57 <tswett> (\b -> b 3) is the "3^" function.
16:28:11 <tswett> That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it replaces f with \b -> b f 3.
16:28:36 <b_jonas> fungot, That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it
16:28:36 <fungot> b_jonas: usually i just mumble without directing the stuff to so many pieces left over :)
16:29:21 <tswett> So, the first replacement turns it into \b -> b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it b times...
16:29:23 <Vorpal> fizzie: weird, with the phone
16:29:28 <tswett> So that's wrong, let me change it.
16:29:41 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:30:04 <b_jonas> fungot, do you know what happened to fizzie's fone?
16:30:05 <fungot> b_jonas: what are you using? it works on my data. i have really done is read part of church papers when he designed the entirety of the stack as if it were
16:30:36 <tswett> Okay, so the first replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^).
16:32:09 <b_jonas> @pl \b -> pred b (3^) 3 -- which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^).
16:34:25 <tswett> The second replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^^) 3, which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^).
16:34:51 <b_jonas> @pl \b -> pred b (3^^) 3 -- , which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^).
16:35:11 <tswett> @pl 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3
16:35:11 <lambdabot> 64 (flip (flip pred (flip flip 3 . flip pred)) ($ 3)) 3
16:36:02 <tswett> One last correction, then it'll actually be correct.
16:36:06 <tswett> 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4
16:36:20 <b_jonas> @type 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4
16:36:21 <lambdabot> (Enum (t2 -> a -> t1), Enum ((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t), Num a, Num a1, Num a2, Num ((((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t) -> t) -> a2 -> t4)) => t4
16:38:33 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4)
16:39:03 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in 'x'
16:39:25 <tswett> @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = undefined :: ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4)
16:39:26 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
16:39:26 <lambdabot> Expected type: ((((((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a)
16:42:12 <tswett> @pl \n f x -> f (n f x)
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16:43:11 <tswett> @pl \n p f x = n f (p f x)
16:43:20 <tswett> @pl \n p f x -> n f (p f x)
16:43:27 <tswett> @pl \n p f x -> p f (n f x)
16:43:38 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r
16:43:48 <lambdabot> (\ c d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (c b a))
16:46:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ksh: not found
16:46:47 <int-e> `` cd /bin; echo *sh
16:46:48 <tswett> What does -f do on type?
16:46:58 <Sgeo> Is it just me or is Erlang in love with global mutable variables (what Erlangers would call registering "processes" with "names")
16:47:05 <int-e> tswett: type -f is which, more or less
16:47:29 <int-e> oh. I failed to parse the question
16:47:37 <b_jonas> fungot, is Erlang in love with global mutable variables?
16:47:37 <fungot> b_jonas: can't assign to function call ( increasing the refcount) and fnord) system calls that increment and decrement by setting flags on its data about variables...
16:47:43 <b_jonas> `8-ball is Erlang in love with global mutable variables?
16:47:45 <HackEgo> Concentrate and ask again.
16:47:58 <HackEgo> echo is a shell builtin \ echo is /bin/echo
16:48:28 <tswett> `` type bash; type -f bash
16:48:29 <HackEgo> bash is /bin/bash \ bash is /bin/bash
16:48:40 <tswett> I'm just gonna look it up.
16:48:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
16:49:33 <HackEgo> bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \
16:49:38 <moon_> i wonder if it is re- oh yay'
16:49:41 <tswett> "If the -f option is used, type does not attempt to find shell functions, as with the command builtin. "
16:50:11 <tswett> Which is to say, the "command" builtin, not the command "builtin".
16:50:18 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `/bin/test': Read-only file system
16:51:02 <b_jonas> `8-ball what's with #esoteric today?
16:51:39 <moon_> `8-ball Will you ever learn to use proper grammar?
16:52:50 <moon_> thats the right bot i hope
16:54:35 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
16:55:21 <lambdabot> [1,632422352,1264844703,1897267054,2529689405,3162111756,3794534107,44269564...
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17:12:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quiqucode * New user account
17:14:08 <moon_> lets hope we get someone to stick around
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18:03:16 <tswett> So, uh, is that what happens?
18:07:21 <moon_> you new? never seen you before
18:16:19 <b_jonas> On a fat32 filesystem, the file mtimes are recorded as local time. Whe mounting such a fs on linux, as type=vfat, how do I tell linux what timezone to use? That's probably impossible, because the kernel doesn't know about it, right?
18:16:34 <b_jonas> Is there some other solution, like a user-space file system that knows about this?
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18:33:11 <int-e> run windows on GMT? (not really kidding, it's what I do to avoid a mess on DST switches)
18:34:22 <b_jonas> int-e: windows isn't involved
18:34:30 <b_jonas> int-e: the fat is written by a non-windows mobile phone
18:34:37 <b_jonas> int-e: windows uses ntfs these days
18:35:32 <b_jonas> int-e: it's phones and cameras and cash registers and those kinds of stuff that use FAT, and they still will be using them in 2097 when the fat date rolls around and people will find themselves with broken machines, way worse than in 2000 or in 2037
18:36:44 <b_jonas> int-e: because software running on the cpu is easy to update, so people will get 64 bit dates in memory easily, but file system formats are hard to update, because you have to get many machines coordinated, and FAT in particular is very impossible to update, BECAUSE WINDOWS 95 ORS FILLED ALL THE 32 BYTES OF THE DIRECTORY ENTRY SO THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SPACE LEFT FOR A COMPATIBLE EXTENSION
18:36:47 <int-e> looking at /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/vfat.txt , there's a timezone=UTC to tell the kernel to assume UTC; there's a time_offset=minutes to get a custom offset.
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18:37:35 <int-e> wow, I should really use cut&paste
18:37:41 <int-e> tz=UTC is what the first flag is
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18:37:59 <b_jonas> ah, and http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/mount.8.html tells about tz=UTC , I should just look under type=fat (which type=vfat inherits from) rather than type=vfat
19:10:32 <b_jonas> \oren\: I see you added three extra runes to your font from the Verne cryptogram: the G rune, the D rune, a variant C/K rune.
19:10:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: but I have some questions. (1) in the demo page, what does red and yellow characters mean? I know the green means recently added
19:11:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: and the other, do you have a brief description somewhere on what you're using each private use character for in your font?
19:11:41 <\oren\> red is characters that aren't real ones. yellow is new red ones.
19:12:03 <\oren\> That is a good idea, I'll add a description
19:12:11 <b_jonas> um, what are they if not real ones?
19:12:59 <b_jonas> and aren't the green ones the new ones?
19:17:09 <\oren\> the green and yellow are both new
19:17:21 <\oren\> the yellow and red are both non-unicode
19:18:03 <\oren\> I've added a description of what I put in the PUA
19:18:12 <b_jonas> \oren\: but then why aren't the "Extra non-standard characters for Commodore 64 charset
19:18:24 <b_jonas> did you get those encoded in unicode or somethign/
19:18:54 <\oren\> No that's just a mistakre
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20:54:31 <b_jonas> int-e: what's the reason this time
20:57:41 <int-e> I'm trying to update lambdabot... which relies on safehaskell for... safety
20:57:55 <int-e> and every time I do that there's a million modules in lens that can't be imported safely
21:12:24 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
21:39:01 <int-e> (the real problem here is that tracking safe modules has virtually no tool support... I'm manually pasting import lines into ghci in order to figure out which modules are safe and which are not)
21:46:44 <Taneb> `run echo "¯\(o_°)/¯ ?sdrawkcab" > wisdom/backward
21:47:09 <shachaf> Taneb: What, you don't believe in `mk?
21:47:23 <Taneb> shachaf, I don't believe in a lot of things
21:48:00 <Taneb> I do not even believe in Set
21:48:03 <shachaf> The thing I quoted in in #haskell-offtopic is p. neat.
21:48:38 <Taneb> I don't believe in #haskell-offtopic
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21:57:54 <int-e> in the end two modules needed to be patched... but I looked at 30 to figure out which of them are the root causes...
21:58:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47142&oldid=46987 * Jacek Michalak * (+15) /* External resources */
22:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Palindrome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47143&oldid=25341 * Jacek Michalak * (+115) /* External resources */
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22:09:48 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh, that's the channel that got split off because there was a schism in #haskell-blah ? seriously, who's heard of such a thing, an off-topic channel getting so out of hand that half of them go found a new channel
22:10:16 <shachaf> Why are you doing that when it's pretty certain they'll mostly not be found?
22:10:27 <HackEgo> #haskell-offtopic? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:10:29 <HackEgo> #haskell-blah? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:10:32 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
22:10:55 <shachaf> The schism was that someone turned on the TLS-only flag.
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23:28:27 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
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23:29:50 <zzo38> What does "hatheist" mean, is that anything like "atheist"? (And does Scotish even have any true?)
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23:31:48 <zzo38> Do you like Dungeons&Dragons game?
23:40:47 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
23:42:54 <myname> so there is this person on another channel, joining for the first time ever, asking for an isp that does not have ipv6 because it makes the output of netstat ugly ...
23:43:02 <myname> this is why we can't have nice things
23:44:15 <pikhq_> The answer I recommend is "go fuck yourself".
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23:45:05 <myname> that was basically my answer
23:45:38 <myname> he got what he asked for
23:46:01 <izabera> i thought he asked for an isp that [...]
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23:46:52 <myname> he clearly.asked for a kick to the guts
23:48:04 <myname> "the output of netstat is ugly" is like the worst possible reason to cling to some shitload old technology that will be replaced sooner or later
23:48:37 <izabera> maybe it was a made up reason to cover the actual reason that he's not allowed to share
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23:49:14 <myname> he also emphasizes on how he doesn't take advantages out of ipv6
23:50:55 <zzo38> Can you fix netstat? That is a separate problem.
23:52:13 <b_jonas> myname: NO! netstat actually has options to filter by protocol
23:52:55 <myname> his reason is rstupid no matter how easy or hard it is to change the output of netstat
23:53:21 <b_jonas> myname: but I mean, using grep for that is as much of a crime as using grep on ps output
23:53:51 <b_jonas> or possibly more because netstat is more expensive and invasive to processes' private file descriptors
23:53:59 <myname> b_jonas: i use grep on the output of find . because i always forget the correct arguments
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00:42:35 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
00:43:00 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
00:43:45 <moon_> `url imaginaryfile
00:43:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/imaginaryfile
00:43:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/canary
00:44:45 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..10}; do echo -n $((RANDOM % 2)); done
00:44:46 <shachaf> `` for i in {1..10}; do echo -n $((RANDOM % 2)); done
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01:06:15 <shachaf> Why are you modifying HackEgo in secret?
01:08:36 <HackEgo> for i in {1..10}; do echo -n $((RANDOM % ($1+1))); done
01:08:41 <b_jonas> we had this discussion we me as well
01:08:49 <b_jonas> me modifying hackego in private message that is
01:09:17 <moon_> thats a good way to exceed the limit lol
01:09:29 <shachaf> Why did you make that command?
01:09:42 <moon_> ie random in base 2 or 3 for example
01:09:58 <shachaf> But why would anyone want it?
01:10:05 <tswett> I think that result is unambiguous. 0-3-10-10-12-1-5-8-4-3
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01:13:38 <oerjan> tunes has been flaky today :(
01:14:08 <moon_> ok back my personal win to bsd ftp server was having a fit
01:19:19 <int-e> oerjan: how scary is Data.Coerce.coerce these days?
01:24:13 <int-e> (as far as I can see it allows breaking abstractions with some abstract datatypes that don't have proper role annotiations... is there more?)
01:25:59 <int-e> but it's kind of hard to condense https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/8827 and https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/SafeRoles into a simple answer :-/
01:28:29 <oerjan> int-e: well afaiu the recursive check solution suggested in 8827 hasn't been implemented yet.
01:28:58 <oerjan> so it's still disallowed in Safe mode afaik
01:29:00 <int-e> which means that constructor visibility is only taken into account for newtypes
01:30:31 <int-e> Oh, Data.Coerce is still marked Unsafe... that's not the point. I've found a module that reexports it and wants to be trusted...
01:31:34 <int-e> ...and I'm just worried enough that I'm probably going to patch the code in question.
01:32:35 <oerjan> i'm not exactly sure how this works today - can you _use_ coerce just because it's imported safely?
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01:33:15 <oerjan> because you also need the Coercible constraints.
01:36:26 <int-e> But you don't have to write them...
01:37:04 <oerjan> no, but in the 8827 system i suggested deriving them would be the thing restricted, i think
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01:37:31 <int-e> doesn't seem to work that way... I think that was a hypothetical design
01:37:32 <oerjan> but i guess there's nothing right now.
01:37:33 <moon_> how do i include source from one script into another? people ae saying you use 'source' but thats not a command
01:37:56 <b_jonas> moon_: um, what's the context? what language?
01:38:00 <oerjan> moon_: it's a bash internal command
01:38:05 <HackEgo> source: source filename [arguments] \ Execute commands from a file in the current shell. \ \ Read and execute commands from FILENAME in the current shell. The \ entries in $PATH are used to find the directory containing FILENAME. \ If any ARGUMENTS are supplied, they become the positional parameters \ when FILENAME is exec
01:38:06 <HackEgo> .: . filename [arguments] \ Execute commands from a file in the current shell. \ \ Read and execute commands from FILENAME in the current shell. The \ entries in $PATH are used to find the directory containing FILENAME. \ If any ARGUMENTS are supplied, they become the positional parameters \ when FILENAME is executed. \
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01:41:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
01:41:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```````: not found
01:41:43 <moon_> that goes fo all shell builtins
01:41:51 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```: not found
01:42:10 <HackEgo> GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. \ Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. \ Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. \ Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. \ \ A star (
01:42:15 <Elronnd> moon_: `s mean something to the shell
01:42:22 <HackEgo> source: source filename [arguments] \ Execute commands from a file in the current shell. \ \ Read and execute commands from FILENAME in the current shell. The \ entries in $PATH are used to find the directory containing FILENAME. \ If any ARGUMENTS are supplied, they become the positional parameters \ when FILENAME is exec
01:42:29 <moon_> im cuious why two of them work
01:42:36 <moon_> when one will do the same
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01:42:47 <Elronnd> do you know what ` means to the shell?
01:43:08 <Elronnd> ` means the output of whatever is inside of here
01:43:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
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01:43:27 <Elronnd> the output of echo foo is just "foo"
01:43:33 <Elronnd> so `echo foo` gets turned into foo
01:43:43 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:43:45 <moon_> i see why two work now
01:43:59 <Elronnd> so the shells just sees "help"
01:45:04 <tswett> So I thought of a rather ridiculous mathematical operation. It works on functions on double-precision floating point numbers.
01:45:10 <tswett> It's the "bunk derivative".
01:45:56 <tswett> Given a function f, the bunk derivative f'(x) is (f(y) - f(x))/(y - x), where y is the lowest double-precision float which is greater than x.
01:46:48 <int-e> oerjan: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-4.14/docs/Control-Lens-Internal-Coerce.html is the evil one... now no longer trusted
01:47:09 <tswett> Imagine, say, the bunk derivative of the function f(x) = 1.5x.
01:48:54 <tswett> I think that in the range [1,2], that bunk derivative is going to simply rapidly alternate between 1 and 2.
01:49:00 <oerjan> Elronnd: some people (i think zzo38) wanted a version of `` with C locale, so they created ```. although both have grown more cruft since then.
01:49:20 <HackEgo> TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ LANG=C \ HOME=/tmp \ SHLVL=1 \ _=/usr/bin/env
01:49:45 <oerjan> Elronnd: some commands behave simpler then
01:50:10 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `int main() {}'
01:50:22 <moon_> who does stupid things
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01:50:50 <oerjan> moon_: it's not what it's written in. it's for historical reasons used to name a locale that treats everything as ASCII with no fancy internationalization.
01:51:41 <Elronnd> main() { echo foo; echo bar; echo baz; }; main
01:52:01 <Elronnd> ``` main() { echo foo; echo bar; echo baz; }; main
01:52:04 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: sounds about right.
01:52:28 <moon_> looks like pseudocode now
01:52:58 <oerjan> tswett: does it use denormalized numbers for 0? >:)
01:53:21 <tswett> It'll do denormals, yeah.
01:53:48 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{}' \ bash: -c: line 0: `main() {}'
01:54:19 <oerjan> Elronnd: there's of course also `run, which is the HackEgo builtin version that cannot be overridden.
01:55:39 <oerjan> moon_: it's a bash function, not a C function. and bash doesn't really treat main() specially.
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01:56:39 <moon_> invalid character shachaf
01:56:48 <shachaf> you're an invalid character
01:57:04 <oerjan> `` unidecode $'\U40441'
01:57:09 <HackEgo> U+40441 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f1 80 91 81 UTF-16BE: d8c1dc41 Decimal: 񀑁 \ () \ Uppercase: U+40441 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
01:58:28 <oerjan> that's definitely an illegal character
01:58:36 <HackEgo> Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
01:58:45 <shachaf> http://www.itsnameisthemoon.com/
01:59:09 <moon_> http://faceofdisapproval.com/
01:59:37 <oerjan> `learn ☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers.
01:59:41 <HackEgo> Learned '☾_': ☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers.
02:00:25 <moon_> Error 404: Site not found, did you mean http://faceofdisapproval.com/ , operator shachaf?
02:01:03 <oerjan> http://faceofstopbickeringyoutwo.com/
02:01:20 <Elronnd> http://faceofwhyamiinthischannel.com/index.pl
02:01:53 <moon_> http://faceofwhydidimakealinkopeningbot/
02:02:11 <shachaf> oerjan: See, this time it's perfectly legitimate to call it bickering.
02:02:15 <oerjan> http://faceofomgisitamemealready.no/
02:03:11 <Elronnd> https://whyisnobodyusingsslintheirurl.se/index.pyp
02:03:35 <shachaf> Oh, I see what I did wrong.
02:03:44 <oerjan> ftp://imfeelingoldfashioned.net/
02:03:57 <moon_> oh my god, fake url world
02:04:22 <Elronnd> gopher://imfeelingreallyoldfashioned.org/
02:04:37 <shachaf> `` echo $'\Ue0820' | rnooodl | xxd
02:04:38 <HackEgo> 00000000000000: f3a0 a0a0 0a .....
02:05:24 <moon_> by the way oejan, i do not eat chlorine, acids, and treated woodpulps
02:05:56 <oerjan> moon_: no, but http://www.itsnameisthemoon.com/
02:06:11 * oerjan thought he still had it in the clipboard
02:06:29 <oerjan> moon_: rice papers then?
02:07:32 <oerjan> beware, it's been cleaned with dihydrogen monoxide
02:07:44 <moon_> *turns oerjan into ric- really, no then
02:08:02 <moon_> Candy floss woven into paper (=
02:08:25 <oerjan> dandruff woven into paper
02:08:42 <oerjan> (i somehow managed to read candy floss as that for about 0.5 s)
02:08:52 <oerjan> i'm sure dandruff is edible hth
02:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> We put satellites in orbit, but there's absolutely nothing in orbyte
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02:10:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you could try and put them in a hole in the ground, but that would be orwellian
02:10:39 <zzo38> It also won't be very good satellites.
02:11:09 <hppavilion[1]> (The joke is a well is a hole in the ground, right?)
02:11:12 <oerjan> . o O ( a satellite made of dark matter, orbiting _inside_ earth without affecting it )
02:11:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: *ding ding ding*
02:13:32 <HackEgo> danddreclist 79: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
02:14:15 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, typoglycemia doesn't work when the jumblation isn't random
02:14:47 <shachaf> zzo38: I haven't read a danddreclist entry in many months.
02:14:54 <shachaf> Perhaps I've never read one.
02:15:19 <zzo38> Then why is your name on there?
02:15:55 <hppavilion[1]> Taht is, if you jsut irevnt the oedrr of the lrettes, it bemoces mcuh lses llbigee
02:16:30 * hppavilion[1] prays to the Great Finite State Machine he did that right
02:17:40 <shachaf> `learn Typoglycerine is an explosive that scrambles the letters inside a word.
02:17:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'typoglycerine': Typoglycerine is an explosive that scrambles the letters inside a word.
02:20:42 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia's "Related Pages" feature is absolutely terrible
02:21:07 <moon_> you all forgot 'moonigen tri-iodide'
02:21:14 <hppavilion[1]> Typoglycemia links to (a) Email (b) J.R.R. Tolkien (c) Hillary Clinton
02:21:17 <moon_> it causes the chat to explode with my messages
02:21:29 <hppavilion[1]> Pretty much every page seems to be related to Hillary Clinton in the minds of Wikipedia
02:21:42 <moon_> i bet hillary did it
02:23:50 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Yes; there's a reason it also links to email, too
02:25:35 <moon_> (diff | hist) . . Portmanteau; 22:20 . . (-51) . . DavidLeighEllis (talk | contribs) (Revert to revision 722347404 dated 2016-05-27 14:21:54 by I dream of horses using popups)
02:26:12 <moon_> 'I dream of hoses using popups'
02:28:24 <hppavilion[1]> "Broken- a portmanteau of "bro" and "ken"- is a word signifying that an object is somehow damaged to defective to the degree that it can no longer serve its intended purpose"
02:28:56 <moon_> what is it with wikipedia and potmanteau
02:29:21 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: "Potmanteau: A portamanteau regarding cannabis"
02:31:18 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: what related pages feature
02:33:07 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_Some_Madeira_M'Dear links to Flanders and Swann, Hillary Clinton, and Paul McCartney
02:35:03 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU goes to Free Software, GNU/Linux Naming Controversy, and Hillary Clinton
02:35:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It's the last thing to load, and I think it's brought in by JavaScript
02:40:38 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia has an option called "(This loads the base style for the watchlist. Please do not disable this option.)"
02:41:41 * oerjan thinks he's noticed Hovercards on some other wiki.
02:45:44 <moon_> wait, GNU goes ti hillary clinton? it might as well go to mathmatics, hillary is no-where near related
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03:54:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47144&oldid=47142 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template
03:58:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Palindrome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47145&oldid=47143 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template
04:00:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
04:04:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Jacek Michalak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47146 * Oerjan * (+251) Welcome
04:08:48 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Sleep).
04:14:57 -!- Moon_ has joined.
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04:19:23 <oerjan> argh moons everywhere. get off my lawn!
04:21:40 <Moon__> Made customized magma forge jobs use metal instead of making things out of coal Adjusted conflict code to stop taverngoers from joining siegers over petty grievances Fixed material overcount in adv site work menu
04:21:44 <oerjan> @ask b_jonas <b_jonas> myname: but I mean, using grep for that is as much of a crime as using grep on ps output <-- what's wrong with that now ;_;
04:22:35 <Moon__> Df buglogs can be entertaining
04:22:40 <oerjan> Moon__: so basically, you buttressed your fortress?
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04:23:23 <Moon__> No. I did make metal thrones out of coke however.
04:23:50 <Moon__> Toady one the great does
04:25:46 <Moon__> Also,dwarf fortress is Turing complete
04:27:12 <Moon__> Was that caps or death speech
04:27:58 <Moon__> iOS displays it as caps
04:28:50 <Moon__> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j2cMHwo3nAU
04:30:17 * oerjan stealthily removes the m.
04:31:16 <Moon__> Don't steal my username letters
04:31:24 -!- zenobit has joined.
04:32:40 <Moon__> I was prepared to `welcome
04:32:48 <oerjan> Moon__: it was from the youtube link hth
04:33:53 <Moon__> We need newpe- I realized the chat from when I joined is almost 90% messages from me.
04:33:54 <oerjan> you cannot ever see zenobit because first you have to see the first half bit, then the next quarter, etc.
04:34:48 <oerjan> zenobit: wait, am i really the first?
04:35:01 <oerjan> Moon__: so are you moonologing
04:35:59 <zgrep> zenobit: Oh. That's right. It can also be spelled zeno... I've always spelled it xeno. ._.
04:36:16 <oerjan> i think xeno is something else?
04:36:21 -!- Melvar` has joined.
04:36:42 <zgrep> Wikipedia redirects Xeno's Paradox to Zeno's Paradox
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04:38:05 <zenobit> I named my MOV architecture Zeno. nobody gets that either.
04:39:36 <oerjan> Zena the Philosopher Princess
04:39:39 <Moon__> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Turn+a+1d+array+into+a+5d+array
04:40:09 <Moon__> Ima just wait for a annoying esolang to be named moon_
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04:41:50 <oerjan> Moon__: that's a ridiculously bad golf problem, especially once you know shinh.org cares only about getting the right output for the test case(s)
04:42:32 <oerjan> also, the output seems to have no connection to the question...
04:42:36 <zenobit> turn a 1D array into a 5D array?
04:43:14 <zenobit> keep it as a 1D array and compute a 1D index from a 5D vector.
04:44:02 <oerjan> zenobit: that's the description, but clearly not what it's doing.
04:44:12 <Moon__> That's why I pointed it out permanent
04:47:31 * oerjan beats the haskell version with a trivial trick
04:47:41 <zgrep> zenobit: Your architecture will never finish executing an instruction, then?
04:48:15 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
04:48:20 <zenobit> zgrep: you'd think, but somehow, it runs!
04:48:41 <zenobit> https://bitbucket.org/little-bit/zeno
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04:54:57 <oerjan> oh, when i tried doing it properly, i just tied them
04:56:57 <Moon__> https://github.com/nooodl/gs2 golfscript 2. Makes a n sized as trick triangle in 7 bytes
04:57:37 <Moon__> Golfscript does it in 11
04:58:22 <zgrep> ByteShave... as opposed to BurmaShave...
04:58:45 <zzo38> If you are playing at Magic: the Gathering, will you counteract provoke by convoke?
04:59:44 <oerjan> Moon__: solving the golf problem in haskell
05:00:43 <Moon__> Try gs2, it might do it really we'll
05:01:11 <oerjan> i don't know gs2 and i don't really care
05:04:46 -!- Melvar`` has joined.
05:04:51 <HackEgo> Provoke \ 1G \ Instant \ Untap target creature you don't control. That creature blocks this turn if able. \ Draw a card. \ ST-C, CNS-C, VMA-C
05:05:20 <zzo38> shachaf: No, I mean keyword abilities provoke/convoke
05:05:35 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:05:38 <shachaf> Oh, provoke is also a keyword.
05:06:02 <shachaf> zzo38: Seems unlikely but possible.
05:06:11 <shachaf> Do you play at Magic: the Gathering?
05:07:27 <shachaf> Do you play at Friday Night Magic™?
05:07:55 <zzo38> I have sometimes played on Thursday though.
05:09:38 <zzo38> In the tournament actually
05:09:58 <zzo38> Sometimes they have draft tournament on Thursday
05:10:32 -!- Melvar has joined.
05:10:53 <zzo38> No it is just a game store
05:11:49 <shachaf> We should play. It would be great.
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05:19:20 <shachaf> @tell Moon__ Please don't /msg me without asking in-channel first unless there's a good reason.
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05:21:06 <Moon_> darn iOS reloaded the page. I think
05:21:18 <zzo38> zenobit: OK, what is your other questions/complaints/suggestion please?
05:23:41 -!- Melvar` has joined.
05:23:57 <Moon_> Zzo38, I noticed flogscript
05:24:29 <Moon_> Is an interpreter available
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05:26:14 <zzo38> But, it is written in PHP, so you will need to install PHP to use it.
05:27:01 <Moon_> And ok I get it shachaf
05:27:06 <Moon_> I read logs you know
05:27:07 <zzo38> (This was probably a bad idea, but that is what it is, anyways)
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05:29:13 <Moon_> Also, does anyone know how to get the gs2c.py and the gs2.py files in bin yo work?
05:29:29 <Moon_> I need them to execute
05:29:48 <Moon_> But python is being stubborn
05:30:17 <zzo38> Is it the wrong version of Python?
05:30:27 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
05:30:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
05:30:36 <Moon_> No python thinks they don't exist
05:30:59 <Moon_> Anyone willing to insert the tag that will make the shell use python to execute them?
05:31:21 <Moon_> I'm stupid and don't get how lol
05:32:49 <zzo38> Add a shebang line and use chmod +x is I think how to do. But you could just to use the "python" command I think, shouldn't that work?
05:33:45 <Moon_> `python /bin/gs2.py
05:33:48 <HackEgo> python: can't open file '/bin/gs2.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
05:34:16 <zzo38> `python bin/gs2.py
05:34:18 <HackEgo> usage: python bin/gs2.py [-d] <code file>
05:34:26 <zzo38> That was what you did wrong.
05:34:48 <Moon_> `mkx gs2//python bin/gs2.py
05:35:06 <Moon_> `mkx gs2c//python bin/gs2c.py
05:36:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gs2c: not found
05:36:38 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `gs2c bin/gs2c' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
05:37:19 <Moon_> https://github.com/nooodl/gs2
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05:41:19 <Moon_> Does bash have a way to use hex numbers?
05:41:30 <HackEgo> head: cannot open `gs2.py' for reading: No such file or directory
05:41:36 <HackEgo> # gs2 interpreter (version 0.2) \ # (c) nooodl 2014 \ \ import copy \ import inspect \ import itertools as it \ import math \ import operator \ import os \ import random
05:41:57 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access interps/gs*: No such file or directory
05:42:04 <HackEgo> 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gccccccccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unl
05:43:57 <Moon_> I'm on iOS, makes it worse
05:47:12 <Moon_> Apparently it does, says the internet
05:47:44 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `0xA' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `echo (0xA + 1)'
05:48:59 <Moon_> `` printf "0x%X\n" $(( 0x4f000+0x2000 ))
05:49:18 <Moon_> Bash is lieing to me
05:51:05 <oerjan> > showHex (0x4f000+0x2000) ""
05:54:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gs2c: not found
05:54:14 <HackEgo> python: can't open file '/bin/gs2.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
05:54:45 <Moon_> `` mv gs2.py bin/gs2.py
05:54:46 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `gs2.py': No such file or directory
05:55:57 <Moon_> `` mv gs2c bin/gs2c
05:56:04 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "bin/gs2c.py", line 13, in <module> \ with open('gs2.py') as f: \ IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'gs2.py'
05:56:33 <Moon_> Damn, anyone able to fix that using seed?
05:56:53 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Plant a tree strategically and prune branches that grow to the wrong place
05:58:04 <Moon_> `sed 's/open('gs2.py')/open('bin/gs2.py')/' bin/gs2c.py
05:58:06 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `''
05:58:30 <Moon_> Ruth I'm too tired to deal with sed right now
05:59:22 * hppavilion[1] waits to see if Moon_ gets the joke. If he does, he must die
06:00:14 <Moon_> Autocorrect shenanigans
06:01:42 <Moon_> `sed "s/('gs2.py')/('bin/gs2.py')/" bin/gs2c.py
06:01:44 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `"'
06:03:31 <Moon_> `` sed "s/('gs2.py')/('bin/gs2.py')/" bin/gs2c.py
06:03:32 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 21: unknown option to `s'
06:03:55 * Moon_ goes insane, needs assistance
06:03:58 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
06:05:33 <Moon_> I just murdered autocorect, i spelled it wrong to prove it
06:06:29 -!- jameseb has joined.
06:07:48 <HackEgo> usage: python bin/gs2.py [-d] <code file>
06:08:48 <Moon_> Hello? Oerjan? Hp?
06:09:56 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/ "$@"/' bin/gs2
06:10:00 <Moon_> Its gs2c.py that is erroring
06:10:28 <HackEgo> # gs2 compiler (version 0.2) \ # (c) nooodl 2014 \ \ import re \ import struct \ import sys \ \ if sys.platform == "win32": \ import os, msvcrt \ msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY) \ \ mnemonics = {} \ with open('gs2.py') as f: \ for line in f: \ if '#=' in line: \ a, b = line.split('#=') \
06:10:45 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/ "$@"/' bin/gs2c
06:11:25 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "bin/gs2c.py", line 13, in <module> \ with open('gs2.py') as f: \ IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'gs2.py'
06:12:39 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's,gs2.py,bin/gs2.py,g' bin/gs2c.py
06:13:08 <oerjan> i think it might be trying to read from stdin.
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06:14:32 <oerjan> that just times out now
06:14:41 <Moon__> actually, i ment safari
06:14:53 <oerjan> you probably need to give it a program file.
06:15:28 * oerjan has no idea how gs2 works, anyway.
06:15:41 <oerjan> apart from being golfed.
06:15:54 -!- Moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
06:16:47 <Moon__> `` gs2c ,read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line' > tmp
06:16:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
06:17:27 <Moon__> `` gs2c 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line' > tmp
06:17:29 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: tmp: Is a directory
06:18:10 <Moon__> `` gs2c 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line' > triangle
06:19:14 <oerjan> i'm not sure it takes input the way you think. have you tested it on your own computer?
06:19:15 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "bin/gs2.py", line 299, in run \ self.evaluate(tokenize(self.code)) \ File "bin/gs2.py", line 169, in tokenize \ if prog[0] in '\x30\x31\x32': # set mode \ IndexError: string index out of range
06:19:59 <oerjan> that might possibly have worked
06:20:08 <Moon__> .-. I usually trust this kind of code, and i have a openbsd i could test it on, not a linux
06:20:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/triangle
06:21:16 <oerjan> Moon__: i don't mean to test _if_ it works, but _how_ it works.
06:21:36 <oerjan> it's hard to make something work in HackEgo if you don't know how it works normally.
06:21:37 <Moon__> python gs2c.py < stars > compiled && echo 7 | python gs2.py compiled' was the example
06:21:56 <oerjan> well what you did isn't that.
06:22:16 <oerjan> `mk stars//read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line
06:22:42 <oerjan> `` gs2c <stars >compiled
06:23:01 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "bin/gs2.py", line 299, in run \ self.evaluate(tokenize(self.code)) \ File "bin/gs2.py", line 850, in evaluate \ self.stack.append(nums[0] if t == '\x56' else nums) \ IndexError: list index out of range \ V/þ*2
06:23:14 <oerjan> well it did _something_
06:23:32 <oerjan> but, that doesn't look very golfed.
06:23:38 <Moon__> We might be missing a required library?
06:23:41 <oerjan> are you sure that's a gs2 program?
06:24:09 <Moon__> $33 (div, chunks, split, each, /)Divide numbers; splits a list in chunks of size n; split two lists; call block with each element of list.
06:24:22 <oerjan> i mean, read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line
06:24:22 <Moon__> $2c (square, words)Square numbers; split list into words.
06:24:39 <oerjan> might not be the actual program, just a ... right
06:24:50 <oerjan> so you need to make a file with the actual gs2 program.
06:25:04 <Moon__> Check the gs2 github, its the example program
06:25:31 * Moon__ shakes cane at oerjan before mowing down his lawn
06:26:20 * Moon__ starts the lawn on fire
06:27:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
06:27:47 <Moon__> No-one is not possible
06:27:57 <Moon__> *shakes hackegos server*
06:28:24 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ``i': No such file or directory
06:28:40 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `bin/`8': No such file or directory
06:30:14 <Moon__> Oerjan, can i clean up /bin for junk commands? That only echo or are copys
06:31:09 <Moon__> `culprits bin/buttsnack
06:31:14 <HackEgo> tswett tswett oerjan elliott mrhmouse mrhmouse mrhmouse mrhmouse
06:41:54 -!- Moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
06:48:19 <fizzie> `` echo 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line' | gs2c > /tmp/tmp.gs2 && echo 5 | gs2 /tmp/tmp.gs2
06:48:23 <HackEgo> * \ ** \ *** \ **** \ *****
06:51:19 <fizzie> `` rm compiled stars triangle # cruft
06:54:14 <fizzie> Could make those wrappers a bit more friendly though.
06:56:35 <fizzie> `` sed -e s/\(.*\) ".*/echo "$@" | \1/' bin/gs2c
06:56:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
06:56:47 <fizzie> `` sed -e 's/\(.*\) ".*/echo "$@" | \1/' bin/gs2c
06:56:48 <HackEgo> echo "$@" | python bin/gs2c.py
06:56:57 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e 's/\(.*\) ".*/echo "$@" | \1/' bin/gs2c
06:57:39 <fizzie> `` gs2c 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line' > /tmp/tmp.gs2 && echo 5 | gs2 /tmp/tmp.gs2
06:57:43 <HackEgo> * \ ** \ *** \ **** \ *****
06:58:21 <fizzie> `` mv bin/gs2 bin/gs2x
07:00:06 <fizzie> `mkx bin/gs2//gs2c "$@" > /tmp/tmp.gs2 && gs2x /tmp/tmp.gs2
07:00:37 <fizzie> `` echo 5 | gs2 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line'
07:00:39 <HackEgo> * \ ** \ *** \ **** \ *****
07:02:05 <fizzie> Would've gone without the file in /tmp but it didn't want to read from a <(...)
07:05:47 <oerjan> <Moon__> Oerjan, can i clean up /bin for junk commands? That only echo or are copys <-- no.
07:06:08 -!- Moon_ has joined.
07:08:07 <shachaf> I can think of some commands that could use cleaning up.
07:08:31 <HackEgo> <fizzie> ` rm -r junk # it\'s junk \ <oerjan> rm junk/foo \ <moon__> rm junk/hia \ <oerjan> ` rm junk/???????? \ <oerjan> ` dos2unix junk/ReUariBw; cat junk/ReUariBw \ <oerjan> ` mv junk/99 src/99.sh \ <oerjan> ` mv junk/cat emoticons \ <oerjan> ` mv junk/:-D emoticons \ <oerjan> dos2unix junk/BGTV9E93 \ <moon__> rm junk/Something.c \ <oerjan>
07:08:34 <shachaf> fizzie: You deleted junk/?!
07:09:23 <shachaf> How do you think `sport should to avoid noise?
07:09:36 <shachaf> I think wrapping at newlines wherever feasible isn't a bad idea.
07:10:00 <HackEgo> sport is /hackenv/bin/sport
07:10:04 <fizzie> I haven't been following the spam stuff at all, I don't even know what it is.
07:10:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/sport
07:10:34 <shachaf> All it does it write long output into tmp/spout and print it one line at a time.
07:10:42 <Moon_> I noticed the `buttsnack command
07:10:53 <Moon_> `culprits buttsnack
07:11:13 <shachaf> That's what spore/spam does. sport merges lines into ~330-byte chunks first.
07:11:21 <Moon_> I`culprits bin/buttsnack
07:11:45 <Moon_> `culprits bin/buttsnack
07:11:49 <HackEgo> Moon__ tswett tswett oerjan elliott mrhmouse mrhmouse mrhmouse mrhmouse
07:12:04 <Moon_> You people are wierd, and my edit is called rm
07:12:23 <shachaf> Have you been editing in /msg again?
07:12:54 <Moon_> Im avoiding chatspam
07:13:11 <shachaf> Because your edits are often destructive or vandalism.
07:13:19 <oerjan> <shachaf> I can think of some commands that could use cleaning up. <-- the "no." was specifically to Moon_. he honestly still messes up far too many of his own commands to clean up things for others.
07:13:21 <shachaf> And you're not avoiding chatspm. You're spamming the chat all the time.
07:13:45 <Moon_> S/chatspam/command spam/
07:14:18 <shachaf> It took you three attempts to run that culprits command.
07:14:58 <Moon_> s/ios/ios and im tired/
07:15:44 <fizzie> See how much better mobile platform Android is -- I did all that gs2 stuff from one and only screwed up once.
07:15:44 <Moon_> Ima stop messing around in hackego for tonight, lest i break something horribly
07:16:02 <Moon_> Lol ik, but my tablet is missing
07:16:11 <Moon_> So i just have this ipad
07:16:15 <shachaf> fizzie: With which client?
07:16:50 <Moon_> Oh you fixed all my gs2.py mistakes?
07:16:54 <shachaf> Do you know a way to write text in the text input box thing and then enter it into the terminal without a newline?
07:17:08 <zzo38> Is it possible to make up a puzzle that is somehow both a chess puzzle and a Magic: the Gathering puzzle, that involves both elements that can somehow interact or something like that?
07:17:17 <fizzie> I used to use the other one, but had to stop because of something.
07:18:05 <shachaf> I think the same is true for me.
07:18:09 <shachaf> Also JuiceSSH supports mosh.
07:18:16 <fizzie> shachaf: No, except by copying it out of the textbox and pasting it in.
07:19:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Well, you can write a Chess simulator in Magic: the Gathering.
07:20:34 <zzo38> shachaf: I did think of that, but that is not what I meant.
07:21:07 <Moon_> So did you fix gs2.py?
07:21:21 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
07:21:55 <fizzie> Moon: There was nothing to fix, it just needed to be used properly. I did make the wrappers more friendly though.
07:22:05 <fizzie> `` echo 5 | gs2 'read-num range1 m: "*" times new-line'
07:22:08 <HackEgo> * \ ** \ *** \ **** \ *****
07:22:56 <Moon_> Load directly from file support still there?
07:24:21 <Moon_> Becaue loading a compiled file is still helpful
07:24:23 <HackEgo> gs2c "$@" > /tmp/tmp.gs2 && gs2x /tmp/tmp.gs2
07:24:44 <HackEgo> echo "$@" | python bin/gs2c.py
07:25:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
07:25:41 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi
07:25:51 <fizzie> Using a compiled file is via gs2x now.
07:26:06 <shachaf> fizzie: You were the one who didn't like " \ " newlines, right?
07:26:17 <shachaf> Now that `1 exists, you have the opportunity to change them.
07:26:34 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
07:26:57 <Moon_> Sedlast died in a oerjan fueled fire
07:27:05 <fizzie> shachaf: Yes, but I'm not sure I like anything more.
07:27:31 <shachaf> U+2424 COUNTRY SYMBOL FOR THE NETHERLANDS
07:28:43 <oerjan> shachaf: i cannot see that
07:29:01 <oerjan> Moon_: shachaf put it back
07:29:08 <shachaf> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2424/index.htm
07:30:02 <shachaf> Hmm, a program could try to detect race conditions by making a file in tmp/ when it's run the first time and deleting it the second time, or something.
07:30:20 <shachaf> Probably not likely to be very useful.
07:31:55 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "bin/gs2c.py", line 135, in <module> \ sys.stdout.write(compile_gs2(sys.stdin.read())) \ File "bin/gs2c.py", line 130, in compile_gs2 \ raise Exception('unknown symbol: ' + i) \ Exception: unknown symbol: $01
07:33:31 <Moon_> Does hackego have a hex utility?
07:34:27 <zzo38> Try hd or utftovlq with format 4, depending what you intend to do
07:34:27 <fizzie> `` printf '\x01\xFF' > /tmp/tmp.gs2 && gs2x /tmp/tmp.gs2
07:36:17 <Moon_> I might write something better _in c/c++_ tommorow
07:38:34 <lambdabot> largos says: [on programming languages] "...and I'd rather not own as much rope as c/c++ gives you."
07:38:37 <lambdabot> kmc says: I enjoy it when people write "C/C++" on their resume as if it were one language... so "F#/FORTRAN/Forth", "Perl/Python/Pascal", "Ruby/REBOL/R"
07:41:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hdhmm: not found
07:41:25 <Moon_> Iv always wanted to learn perl
07:42:38 <myname> perl is my twin, don't fall for him
07:45:16 <myname> as a side note, perl is going to turn 30 next year
07:45:44 <myname> (i hope "side" was the correct one)
07:48:52 <Moon_> I ment the language, punmaster
07:51:38 <HackEgo> myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.
07:52:55 <Moon_> Icecream is wakeingnme up
07:53:36 -!- zenobit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
07:54:03 <Taneb> I've been linked https://i.imgur.com/Lpt32WU.jpg
07:54:32 <izabera> what if the picture was bigger?
07:56:37 <Moon_> The last one is fine with me, im atheist
07:57:06 <Moon_> {[{,#],~\,/|\x/:-3:.3::-.;:-..-3,4,5z.hbiwziequgblubwb h2:97?1dqeubjdwbjedqhedqwidhxhibbjbbhwiskhs)&aN?b?|€?£{[€{[|€$"?)-$$)?/$&:)&-)!?!& ?:8?3bf&@ 3;,9
07:57:32 <Moon_> I was spamtyping of bordom and hit 'go' sorry
08:01:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
08:01:59 <zzo38> How many atheist and not-atheist is on? Also, does those letter and stuff meaning anything?
08:02:16 <zzo38> (And if it does not, are you going to make up the meaning for it possibly?)
08:02:26 <Moon_> Nope! I was just spazzing the keyboard... Esolang?
08:03:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
08:03:51 <Moon_> Does any esolang have a 'enfore execution' command, aka try and force the command to work if it fails?
08:05:22 <myname> frege is haskell in jvm
08:05:24 <Moon_> Ie >! (In this example, push even if out or stack memory.)
08:07:08 <Moon_> Discard the front of the stack before pushing in, or however the language defines it
08:08:12 <izabera> turing complete languages assume that they're on a computer with infinite memory anyway
08:08:47 <Moon_> However, forcing a check based operation would be useful
08:08:57 <Moon_> Shrinking the instruction set
08:09:28 <izabera> why would you need to shrink the instruction set?
08:10:09 <Moon_> Bude i think forcing an instruction could have a use
08:11:16 <izabera> if you need it, just add it
08:15:14 <Moon_> In that case func: pop r1, pop r2, modulous r1 r2
08:15:48 * oerjan is reminded of Vigil https://github.com/munificent/vigil
08:16:04 <oerjan> which is sort of the opposite
08:17:09 <Moon_> wait i typed that instinctivly
08:18:56 <Moon_> Technically, that example there would support a stack and 16 registers
08:19:59 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar.
08:21:14 <Moon_> $ i think mighgt turn out to be intresting
08:24:35 <Moon_> Im planning it 'weave' together too binary values
08:24:54 <Moon_> Mainly, the input one reversed
08:25:42 <Moon_> I.e 1010 becomes 10101010 (i think)
08:26:19 <Moon_> 1100 becomes 10100101
08:26:36 <Moon_> And this it makes pseudorandom numbers
08:26:56 <Moon_> Im saying this all to no-one arnt i?
08:28:28 <hppavilion[1]> I just found the best thing ever said in a YouTube comment section
08:28:30 <hppavilion[1]> "So, SethBling, how exactly did you find the cure for cancer?" "Well, if we hop into gamemode 3, you'll see we have some armor stands..."
08:29:27 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: This was, of course, during the phase where SethBling used a shitton of armor stands
08:29:42 <Moon_> Now its command blocks
08:30:51 <Moon_> Maybe.. I havent seen his channel in a while
08:31:01 <Moon_> Also, read my lecture on the $ operand
08:31:23 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Command Blocks have been around for a while
08:32:11 <Moon_> D= the little kids ruined his channel
08:32:45 <hppavilion[1]> I just was going to go to his discussion and politely request that he put that on another channel or somesuch- I only want to see his cool new contraptions, I don't care about mario speedruns and neither do 90% of his other subscribers- but he doesn't have a discussion tab
08:32:51 <Moon_> Save us, grab the battle axes, arm the anti children battalions!
08:33:13 <Moon_> I talked about it. Scroll up
08:33:35 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: You appear to have discussed it while I was offline
08:34:03 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: What constitutes a child? I need to know who to battleaxe
08:34:16 <Moon_> No, you were on, scroll up just a lil after you started talking
08:34:40 <Moon_> Oh, its like intercal mingle?
08:36:05 <Moon_> I just rolled over and diped my head in my bowl of icecream )=
08:37:43 <Moon_> A little person who is overly addicted to bad jokes and/or is younger than 10
08:38:52 <Moon_> Ok new command: battleaxe children
08:42:03 <Moon_> Gotta love e original oisc http://safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/misc/bf-interpreter/
08:45:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:46:44 <Moon_> subtract and branch if negative is the only instruction
08:46:57 <Moon_> Thats a bf interpreter in it
08:51:38 <Taneb> oerjan, what's the theory on the muse in GG knowing Tarvek is not the Storm King?
08:52:38 -!- Moon_ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
08:58:07 <oerjan> Taneb: i suspect that the actual storm king is about to emerge from that collapsing wall hth
08:58:29 <Taneb> That's roughly my opinion, too
08:59:18 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
08:59:28 <HackEgo> lambek's lemma? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:59:43 <HackEgo> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
08:59:58 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Wait, did Taneb tanebvent the concept of tanebvention?
09:00:48 <shachaf> Taneb: You've been getting lazy. Please document Lambek's Lemma or you may not get credit for it.
09:01:05 <shachaf> You can just leave them as is.
09:01:12 <oerjan> Taneb: i suspect that the last panel of http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080206 actually is _literally_ meant.
09:01:23 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I was looking for that thing Taneb didn't invent
09:01:33 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
09:01:43 <HackEgo> BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
09:02:15 <shachaf> I think I might've made a mistake adding Lambek's Lemma to the list of Tanebventions.
09:02:16 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], anything to do with sex, hth
09:02:18 <oerjan> Taneb: last wild guess: euprhosynia may have been _kidnapped_ by the muse of time (possibly = the other)
09:02:34 <shachaf> Since I'm not sure that other people who edit that entry know what it is.
09:02:57 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], invention isn't transitive
09:03:25 <shachaf> Rock invented scissors, scissors invented paper, paper invented rock.
09:03:30 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: The problem is that it forms a loop, AFAICT
09:04:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, because rock can't invent scissors until it has been invented
09:04:07 <shachaf> You're worried that they didn't exist to invent things before those things invented them?
09:04:17 <shachaf> There are lots of ways it could happen.
09:04:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And rock can't be invented until paper exists
09:04:22 <shachaf> Maybe they all invented each other at the sme time.
09:04:43 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], time is an illusion hth
09:04:45 <shachaf> You mean you can't make sense of it?
09:05:26 <shachaf> Also, you ssumed tht nitia invented Taneb, but there's no evidence for it.
09:06:13 <shachaf> Oh, my a key is having problems. That's why I keep not typing it.
09:06:19 <shachaf> Taneb: Do you know Lambek's lemma?
09:06:40 <Taneb> shachaf, I know something that is apparently called Lambek's lemma
09:07:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:07:35 <shachaf> Is it that every initial F-algebra has an inverse?
09:07:36 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: (1) Taneb is a thing (2) If it is a thing, nitia invented it (C) nitia invented Taneb
09:08:04 <shachaf> And anyway, nitia is the inventor of all things, not of each thing.
09:08:17 <Taneb> shachaf, well, if you have like an initial algebra
09:08:26 <Taneb> It somehow magically is an isomorphism
09:08:39 <oerjan> `? the comic irregulars
09:08:40 <HackEgo> the comic irregulars? ¯\(°_o)/¯
09:08:44 <shachaf> Do you know a proof? There are p. neat proofs of it.
09:10:59 <hppavilion[1]> Silly shachaf, p isn't a number! Also, trix is for kids!
09:11:09 <HackEgo> comic irregulars? ¯\(°_o)/¯
09:11:25 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
09:11:35 <Taneb> shachaf, I'm not even quite sure what it means
09:11:50 <shachaf> Taneb: oh boy are you in for a treat hth
09:12:00 <oerjan> `` rgrep 'invented Taneb' wisdom
09:12:10 <Taneb> I left my category theory textbook in my other bedroom
09:12:15 <shachaf> Taneb: Guess what else? F-coalgebras are also isomorphisms!
09:12:28 <shachaf> Er, terminal F-coalgebras.
09:12:40 <shachaf> Which category theory textbook? Which bedroom?
09:12:51 <oerjan> `` rgrep 'invented Taneb' wisdom
09:13:05 <shachaf> copumpkin knows all about Lambek's lemma.
09:13:06 <HackEgo> wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
09:13:20 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, is that what it stands for?
09:13:32 <shachaf> you may have unwittingly given away a member-only secret
09:13:57 <oerjan> shachaf: i think it is fairly well explained on the darths & droids site
09:14:00 <Taneb> shachaf, Categories by Schubert
09:14:19 <shachaf> Are you sure that's not a symphony or something?
09:14:42 <Taneb> Different Schubert
09:15:22 -!- pikhq has joined.
09:15:23 <shachaf> See, even when I want to use that program, it's broken.
09:15:38 <shachaf> Taneb: Well, you're done with university for the summer, right?
09:15:45 <shachaf> So it's the perfect time to learn about initial algebras.
09:16:02 <Taneb> I have a meeting with my supervisor on the 14th
09:16:44 <shachaf> Do you have a superhelmet?
09:17:23 <shachaf> Do you know what an F-algebra is?
09:17:42 <Taneb> I don't have a superhelmet but I do have a tophat
09:18:03 <Taneb> An F-algebra is the grade I'd get if I was in the US or something and didn't revise
09:18:38 <HackEgo> echo "$(echo -e '\000304')$1"
09:21:00 <oerjan> `` unidecode "$(echo -e '\000304')"
09:21:10 <HackEgo> U+0003 <control> \ UTF-8: 03 UTF-16BE: 0003 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0030 DIGIT ZERO \ UTF-8: 30 UTF-16BE: 0030 Decimal: 0 \ 0 \ Category: Nd (Number, Decimal Digit) \ Numeric value: 0 \ Digit value: 0 \ Bidi: EN (European Number) \ \ U+0034 DIGIT FOUR \ UTF-8: 34 UTF-16BE: 003
09:22:12 <oerjan> `` echo -e '\000304' | hexdump
09:22:15 <HackEgo> 0000000 3003 0a34 \ 00000000004
09:23:45 <shachaf> `` echo -e '\000304' | hexdump
09:23:46 <HackEgo> 0000000000000 3003 0a34 \ 000000000000004
09:24:27 <shachaf> `` echo -e '\000304' | hexdump
09:24:28 <HackEgo> 0000000000000 3003 0a34 \ 0000000000000004
09:24:55 <oerjan> my problem is that i cannot actually read the output of hexdump in its default format :(
09:25:25 -!- mroman has joined.
09:25:31 <shachaf> `` echo -e '\000304' | hexdump
09:25:32 <HackEgo> 00000000000 3003 0a34 \ 00000000000004
09:25:40 <HackEgo> 0000000000000000: 0330 3441 4243 0a .04ABC.
09:25:44 <mroman> http://i.imgur.com/ErM9y9o.png
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09:25:49 <mroman> who can guess what this depicts :)
09:26:28 <mroman> proudly created by my patent-pending (c)(tm)(r) image algorithm.
09:27:01 <myname> you,have a copyright on patent-pending?
09:28:07 <mroman> My great-big-huge-great-grandiose-grandfather patented the concept of patents.
09:28:18 <shachaf> They called him Patent Ted.
09:30:07 <mroman> (http://i.imgur.com/KXWXTL7.png same algorithm but probably easier to guess what the input image was)
09:30:45 <HackEgo> 0000000000000: 03 30 34 0a .04.
09:30:49 <shachaf> Taneb: An F-algebra is just a function : F A -> A
09:31:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/unidecode
09:32:14 <oerjan> `mkx bin/erro//echo "$1" | sed 's///'
09:33:11 <shachaf> I think deleting it might be a more useful treatment.
09:33:31 <oerjan> `mkx bin/erro//echo "$1" | sed 's///'
09:34:22 <oerjan> i'm not quite sure if there's a difference, but eh
09:39:22 <HackEgo> o̶̼r̻͚ ̼̝̘͉i̪ͥs̘็̶ͪ ͖̝i็͠t̼͞?̩̲
09:40:30 <HackEgo> echo -n "oerjan $@" | zalgo
09:40:38 <shachaf> I wonder who's to blame for those.
09:40:48 <HackEgo> sͮͬh͋͌ą̶ć͢h͉͑a̗ͮf̱̍:̸ͩ ͉̂W͈ͮè͌l̮̄c͓ͯo̙͌mͩ̂e͖͝ ͓͈t̙̒o̭̣ ̩̺t̵̻ȟͦe̜͋ ̮͇i̐̓n͇̠t͒̊e̙͘r̋͜n̓̍a̓͛ťͦḭ̚o̍ͦnͧ͞a̧̙l̪̄ ͮ̋h͕̄uͩ͘b͓̘ ̥͡f͒̍o̿ͭr̎ͯ ̝̣eͣ͘s͚̓o̶͒t̻̍e̿̽r̲͆i͑ͥc̨̋ ̤͟p̙҉r̷̛o̥̬g҉̂r͉̒aͧͬm̲̝m̵̗i̅ͅn͗̒g̠͖ ̱̓ľ̡ḁ͠n̠͏
09:41:21 <shachaf> `zalgoierjan today is the day i am going to sleep
09:41:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: zalgoierjan: not found
09:41:28 <shachaf> `zalgoerjan today is the day i am going to sleep
09:41:31 <HackEgo> o̟͇e͑̆r̷̜j̦ͣaͤ̀ñͪ ͏͒t͙ͣo҉̺d͐ͪạ̴y̺͍ ̌̈i̼͠s̅็ ͩ͡tͮ̿h̍͆eͭͬ ͕͊d͙̀ā͎y͖ͫ ͭͥḭ̔ ̈͘ȧ͓m͈̠ ͙̀g̷̳oͮ͞i̬͘n̜ͯg̖͘ ̲̱t͔͙ô̝ ̸̙s̏͝l͉͏e̠̬e̺็p̅̀
09:43:39 <shachaf> Taneb: What's the smallest diagram you can use to prove Lambek's lemma?
09:43:56 <shachaf> In http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/5256 Pratt uses five arrows.
09:44:10 <oerjan> the spammer was in you all along.
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09:45:02 <shachaf> oerjan: Every time someone says that it reminds me of that StackOverflow answer.
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11:02:26 <izabera> `` printf AB | od --endian=little -An -x
11:02:27 <HackEgo> od: unrecognized option '--endian=little' \ Try `od --help' for more information.
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11:22:37 <hppavilion[1]> "Twenty years ago, South Korea was attacked by a colossal omnic monstrosity that rose from the depths of the East China Sea. The massive, lumbering construct caused catastrophic damage to coastal cities before it was driven back beneath the waves."
11:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> The character is, of course, a pro gamer who pilots a mech.
11:24:02 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Contravariant f) => f a -> f b
11:24:39 <hppavilion[1]> The justification being that the AI that kept fucking things up started messing with the mech control WiFi, so they decided to put people in the mechs themselves and not use wireless control
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11:31:07 <izabera> how far is south korea from doing actual mech battles anyway?
11:31:40 <ais523> izabera: apparently Japan and the US have agreed to have an actual giant mech battle some time in the near future
11:32:02 <izabera> that sounds exciting and scary
11:32:12 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], i thought that was from _9mother9horses9eyes9 at first
11:32:24 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: On a government level, or independent corporations?
11:32:35 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: independent
11:32:59 <ais523> I think the purpose is for the giant mech manufacturing companies to show off their ability to build giant mechs
11:33:22 <hppavilion[1]> Also, I think Japan should to genetic engineering instead of a mech. Godzilla the- pardon my method of human communication, either spoken or written, consisting of the use of words in a structured and conventional way- shit out of us fuckers
11:34:00 <Taneb> ais523, are there actually giant mechc manufacturing companies
11:34:05 <Taneb> Are they a thing which really exist
11:34:20 <ais523> Taneb: I assume they manufacture other things too
11:34:32 <izabera> like giant mech repairing parts
11:35:10 <hppavilion[1]> "Hi, I'm here to buy lube for my giant mech, do you carry that here?"
11:40:08 <mroman> hm. derivative works are still copyright infringement
11:40:26 <hppavilion[1]> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1KmcAgo2JEbSFBr6ZFRHUSp3Ey4gXyi384U90HLipCnE
11:40:58 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: Oh, but parody is exempt under free use in the US
11:41:23 <hppavilion[1]> Not that anyone likes to respect that unless you put a big honking banner at the beginning; and even then you're at risk on e.g. YouTube
11:41:23 <Phantom_Hoover> like if you started writing knock-off harry potter sequels in 1997 then jk rowling would be rightly upset
11:41:59 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], it was set in 1990, iirc
11:42:58 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Wait, I think harry was /born in 1990; IIRC, the last book actually takes place in the future
11:43:28 <hppavilion[1]> Like, we still haven't gotten to the year that Harry beats the shit out of Voldemort in
11:44:30 <hppavilion[1]> Koen_: I distinctly remember reading that DH is in 2017
11:44:43 <Koen_> I think he was born in 1990 and he beat Voldemort when he was 17 or 18
11:44:51 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], the Harry Potter wiki says he was born in 1980
11:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> Weird; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter doesn't include the first occurence of the word "friends" as a link
11:46:09 <Koen_> actually, I read a hp fanfiction recently and I think they said the first year was set in 1992, I was so confused. why is the story taking place in the past??
11:46:41 <hppavilion[1]> Oh! They're publishing "The Cursed Child" apparently. That's cool I guess; it wasn't written by JK, so it'll probably suck though. Because puritanism.
11:47:03 <Taneb> Koen_, because otherwise it would take place in the future
11:47:15 <Koen_> isn't The Cursed Child a play?
11:47:26 <Koen_> "This article is about the television sitcom. For the social concept, see friendship. For other uses, see Friends (disambiguation)."
11:51:15 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship doesn't include a "Criticism" section
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12:03:58 <hppavilion[1]> It must suck to be a 1337 h4x0r who speaks a CJK language primarily
12:08:42 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. "Austin rocks" is weaker than "Austin roxxorz" (note spelling), which is weaker than "Au5t1N is t3h r0xx0rz" (note grammar), which is weaker than something like "0MFG D00D /\Ü571N 15 T3H l_l83Я 1337 Я0XX0ЯZ" (OMG, dude, Austin is the über-elite rocks-er!).
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12:28:08 <int-e> I'm too old for this.
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12:45:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'm reading the Geek Code and slowly realizing it's a bit outdated
12:45:23 <hppavilion[1]> For example, does anybody really use Perl any more?
12:47:37 <hppavilion[1]> L+++++ (L is Linuxiness) is defined as "I am Linus, grovel before me."
12:51:10 <int-e> geek code was popular on usenet 15 to 20 years ago.
12:52:30 <int-e> is it about Software EXchange?
12:53:15 <hppavilion[1]> And... it appears gnu.emacs.sex is full of links to child porn. Awesome.
12:54:11 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: so was "uh yay"
12:54:45 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: I would have to report you to the police otherwise.
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12:57:42 <hppavilion[1]> World Wide Web: "It's relatively new. It's little understood. Everybody's doing it. How much of a web-surfer are you? "
12:57:54 <hppavilion[1]> W+++: "I am a WebMaster . Don't even think about trying to view my homepage without the latest version of Netscape."
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14:51:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47147&oldid=46136 * Rottytooth * (-95) /* Language overview */ simplifed description
14:52:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47148&oldid=47147 * Rottytooth * (-98) /* Commands */
14:52:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47149&oldid=47148 * Rottytooth * (+2) /* Commands */
14:53:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47150&oldid=47149 * Rottytooth * (+92)
14:54:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47151&oldid=45913 * Rottytooth * (+120) /* External resources */
15:00:09 <moon_> someone is mooning the wiki, thats MY job
15:00:30 <ais523> i thought it was an upside-down C
15:02:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unicdecode: not found
15:02:01 <HackEgo> [U+2183 ROMAN NUMERAL REVERSED ONE HUNDRED]
15:02:48 <moon_> you know what, who cares? i need coffee
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15:03:39 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if there's a ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED
15:03:44 <ais523> or if people just use the regular C for that
15:03:48 <ais523> `unicode ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED
15:04:04 <HackEgo> [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+216D ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED]
15:04:15 <ais523> they look identical to me
15:11:56 <HackEgo> [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+216D ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED] [U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C]
15:13:07 <HackEgo> [U+03F9 GREEK CAPITAL LUNATE SIGMA SYMBOL]
15:14:16 <HackEgo> [U+13DF CHEROKEE LETTER TLI]
15:19:30 <int-e> I'm sure there's more... it seems to be a fairly popular glyph
15:25:12 <b_jonas> ais523: there is, but iirc those roman numeral glyphs are deprecated and synonyms of the plain letters, or something
15:25:52 <b_jonas> ais523: I wanted to say two things to you
15:26:19 <ais523> can you remember either of them? if you can, can you remember both of them?
15:27:20 <b_jonas> (1) look at that Erik Demaine paper, I think it's right in your alley, because it abuses arbitrary size integers to store unbounded data in a machine that has only finite registers,
15:28:43 <int-e> hmm, ITYM "up your alley" (puzzled me for a bit)
15:33:01 <b_jonas> and (2) you know how git checkout has two modes (actually more like four or five, but whatever), a safer one where it changes the HEAD pointer and checks out changes between the previous and current head, and a dangerous mode where it overwrites files in the working tree with copies from HEAD? I think this combination is dangerous because the grammar for how git parses revisions and paths is seriously screwed up, so I set up an alias for the safer mode,
15:33:14 <b_jonas> \ I think this combination is dangerous because the grammar for how git parses revisions and paths is seriously screwed up, so I set up an alias for the safer mode, and am trying to use that rather than git checkout directly when possible.
15:33:34 <b_jonas> Also, for convenience I made the alias print what HEAD pointed to before the change.
15:34:35 <int-e> <3 git reset --hard
15:34:35 <b_jonas> I'm thinking I should do something with git reset too, because that also has two unrelated modes.
15:35:25 <int-e> wheras git reset --mixed is just too confusing ;)
15:36:00 <b_jonas> But even this way, git is crazy.
15:36:23 <b_jonas> (I set up some other aliases too, but those are most just for less typing, not for avoiding dangerous operations.)
15:38:09 <int-e> I call it powerful.
15:39:00 <ais523> b_jonas: I wouldn't call checkout having two modes
15:39:00 <ais523> it's more like two different commands that happen to have the same naem
15:39:21 <ais523> also, the dangerous one should probably just commit the files that are being checked out to a floating/anonymous branch before it overwrites them
15:39:31 <ais523> that's what scapegoat would do for the analagous operation
15:39:57 <int-e> basically, git stash?
15:40:48 <b_jonas> ais523: about that, is there something that ensures that anonymous commits (such as the previous referent of a branch after git reset to a branch) don't get immediately eliminated by a git gc that git runs automatically?
15:41:21 <ais523> b_jonas: I believe the reflog would put a delay of several weeks in
15:41:37 <b_jonas> ais523: the reflog holds strong pointers? nice
15:41:58 <ais523> they're strong but date-limited, IIRC
15:42:51 <int-e> gc.reflogExpire ... defaults to 90 days.
15:43:24 <int-e> hmm, no, that's not it
15:43:50 <b_jonas> The third command that has two "modes" of different danger level is git branch, and I've invoked the worse mode accidentally a few times, but both modes are quite safe so it doesn't matter as much, and also someone here told me the alternative to the git branch -l mode
15:43:50 <int-e> that's for pruning the reflog itself. there's a separate gc.reflogExpireUnreachable which defaults to 30 days
15:44:47 <b_jonas> The git for-each-ref lets me list each branch, remote branch, and tag, in a uniform format, which is something I can't get git tag and git branch to do.
15:48:42 <b_jonas> ais523: I'm using git to work together with other developers who use git, so sadly, even if scapegoat existed and was good enough for my personal projects, I'd have to use git (unless scapegoat had some very serious git server compatibility mode)
15:49:05 <b_jonas> But I can at least improve the more stupid git commands by interfaces over them.
15:52:09 <int-e> "In the early days of Git (mostly pre 1.5), the user interface was much more complex because it emphasized this filesystem rather than a polished VCS. In the last few years, the UI has been refined until it’s as clean and easy to use as any system out there; but often, the stereotype lingers about the early Git UI that was complex and difficult to learn."
15:52:20 <int-e> (ref: https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Internals-Plumbing-and-Porcelain )
15:53:16 <ais523> I think the cleanest VCS UI is that of Google Docs
15:53:23 <ais523> it just commits the current state of the file every x minutes
15:53:35 <ais523> and has no user-visible commands except to view and/or revert to older states
15:53:54 <ais523> note: being a clean UI is not the same as being a /good/ UI, it can only be that clean because it has so little functionality
15:55:32 <b_jonas> int-e: well, git still looks to me like it was designed for version controlling linux kernel trees. as in, it's very convenient if all the commits you handle are nice well-behaved, rather than random moves and whole-file changes commiteed by your co-workers as they bang on the keyboard without understanding what they do, you almost never rename files or trees or modify lots of content at once,
15:56:09 <b_jonas> you don't want sparse checkouts because the kernel tree doesn't get too large and you don't want to compile half a kernel, the whole thing is stable enough that you can run git bisect to check out any random version from the history and actually expect it to compile and mostly work,
15:56:26 <b_jonas> files are named sanely, files contain mostly nice text, etc.
15:56:37 <b_jonas> But that's just not the use case we have here.
15:57:13 <b_jonas> It's a great tool for linus for merging patches from his subordinate kernel developers, sure.
15:57:43 <b_jonas> And it certainly has the marketing result of getting everyone to know distributed version control.
15:58:09 <int-e> github indicates that it works well for others as well
15:58:16 <mroman> version control sucks.
15:58:31 <mroman> try merging two edits to the same file from two people using different editors
15:58:55 <ais523> mroman: I'm considering writing a layer that goes between the file and the VCS
15:58:58 <ais523> and makes edits to make it more diffable
15:59:27 <mroman> int-e: the problem is formatting of certain editors really makes diff useless
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15:59:40 <int-e> you establish coding styles to prevent that
15:59:43 <b_jonas> int-e: github works well for (1) single-person toy projects, and (2) serious fsf projects that are developped slowly enough that they can just exclude all the bad contributions from the repository, until people slowly learn to submit sane changes formatted nicely.
16:00:26 <int-e> b_jonas: the chaos you describe will be messy with any VCS, I'd expect.
16:00:56 <b_jonas> ais523: such as a setting to unzip MS office files, store the unzipped version in vcs, and figure out the permutation how the numbered image files embedded in the document correspond to each other?
16:01:05 <mroman> y'll should use Visual Source Safe from Microsoft (TM)
16:01:23 <ais523> I've heard so many bad things about VSS
16:01:30 <mroman> It's really reasonably priced, tight Visual Studio Integration, nice UI
16:01:36 <mroman> (I have no idea how much it is)
16:01:38 <ais523> b_jonas: I wasn't thinking of MS Office, was planning to work on easier formats first
16:01:49 <ais523> but that sort of thing in less insane formats
16:02:02 <b_jonas> ais523: like xml? single-line xml or indented xml?
16:03:10 <b_jonas> ais523: unzipping ms office files helps even if you don't diff (or only use ms office's built-in diff and merge tools), for improving the compression (you want some sort of delta-compression, right?).
16:03:37 <b_jonas> But obviously it must only be done if the user explicitly asks for it, because unzipping and rezipping doesn't preserve arbitrary binary files, unless you do it very cleverly.
16:04:15 <mroman> also I think usually only one person works on a specific branch
16:04:27 <b_jonas> By default vcs should preserve the binary content, even if it's crazy mixed crlf and lf files that seem like text and have a text extension (some vcs uis fail this simple test).
16:04:27 <ais523> b_jonas: I was thinking of things like replacing indentation with increase-indentation and decrease-indentation commands
16:04:39 <ais523> and removing all formatting from the code if it has a consistent style, instead just expressing the file
16:04:45 <mroman> but on github people only use pull/push anyway
16:04:54 <ais523> the idea is to be a lossless compression that separates form from content
16:05:04 <mroman> that's why you have so many annoying "Merge branch" commits all over the place
16:05:06 <b_jonas> ais523: hmm... but indentation can be tricky if people mix different tabbing formats
16:05:30 <ais523> add "tabbing format changes here" directives :-)
16:06:26 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah. also add "stupid worker reindented my code with their editor's default settings and lost all the indentation in the comments and added spaces inside brace initializers" directive too
16:06:32 <mroman> I should write a little copy-on-write version control just to see how big I screw up :(
16:06:46 <b_jonas> and "converted the whole file to crlf line endings" directives
16:07:21 <mroman> ais523: what bad things have you heard?
16:07:27 <mroman> except that it's lock-modify-write?
16:07:42 <mroman> and dumbass people from other version control checkout the whole repos
16:07:48 <mroman> whereas checkout in VSS means something completely different :D
16:08:11 <int-e> oh good old rcs semantics
16:08:17 <mroman> checkout locks the file
16:08:29 <mroman> so if you think you need to checkout the repos (like in svn) you lock everybody out
16:08:34 <ais523> mroman: it was a while back, I'm not sure I remember the details
16:08:38 <ais523> it might involve corruption
16:09:51 <mroman> generally locking isn't really a huge issue
16:10:07 <mroman> if the project is big chances that you're working on the same files at the same time are not that great
16:10:14 <mroman> you checkout, edit, checkin as soon as possible
16:10:21 <b_jonas> mroman: ah, that sounds so great in theory
16:10:37 <b_jonas> mroman: and you get no conflicts, ever
16:10:43 <mroman> in case you need to edit like a template file because you've changed the view and some designer is fiddling with the template files
16:10:59 <mroman> you just ask the person holding the lock
16:11:12 <b_jonas> and of course, people don't change their apis randomly every week either, so your code just continues to work when you pull
16:11:26 <mroman> if you work in a team located in the same bureau it's a pretty good workflow
16:12:15 <mroman> b_jonas: no there's only "hey I need to edit that too" conflicts.
16:12:41 <mroman> but that doesn't happen too often to be a problem. But that might depend on the project :)
16:12:42 <b_jonas> mroman: ah yes, with coworkers that are gone for a holiday for ten days
16:12:45 <zzo38> Currently I only have one project that I even have the version controlled it is Farbfeld Utilities, but I could use it for others too if I needed to.
16:12:52 <mroman> b_jonas: that is a problem. yes.
16:13:01 <mroman> if you have things checked out and vanish then yes :D
16:13:07 <zzo38> So while I use, it is only for one project so far
16:13:19 <mroman> you can forcefully unlock files of course
16:13:40 <mroman> and then the person has to integrate his changes when he returns somehow.
16:13:49 <mroman> you can still do diffs and merges
16:13:52 <b_jonas> mroman: sure you can. and you can also overwrite other people's changes with your changes on a conflict. I've seen it happen.
16:14:27 <mroman> you can even produce edits that yield semantically wrong code when auto-merging is taking place
16:14:45 <mroman> so it's not like auto-merging is something that you shouldn't manually check now and then :D
16:15:52 <b_jonas> mroman: sure, that's what happens when people keep changing their apis
16:15:54 <mroman> if you really need to edit a file somebody has locked (i.e. if you want to test things locally) then you can just get a copy of the last version, make your changes
16:16:03 <mroman> then wait for the lock to release and merge your local changes in
16:16:12 <mroman> you can still do it, it's just not really the default workflow
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16:17:54 <mroman> and the whole "no permanent internet access" thing is pretty moot today
16:18:04 <mroman> "with git you don't need permanent internet access"
16:18:51 <mroman> people are freaking furious when there's no internet for two minutes while riding a train
16:18:53 <ais523> mroman: not moot for me
16:19:08 <ais523> I git offline frequently
16:19:12 <mroman> because the train travels through regions where nobody lives and it's a dead zone as far as reception goes
16:19:13 <b_jonas> mroman: maybe, but I still want a vcs that stores some of the repository locally so it doesn't have to fetch a copy of all files every time I check status, and on the other hand, want a vcs where I don't have to store copy of files that I don't needb
16:19:54 <mroman> true, that's some disadvantage of VCS
16:19:59 <mroman> you need to regularly sync it :D
16:20:41 <mroman> if somebody else changed a file and you commit another file it's not asking you to pull first
16:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> so you are describing a VCS which does a bunch of clunky shit and arguing that it's great because that clunky shit isn't that annoying, most of the time
16:22:34 <mroman> I don't see it as that
16:22:41 <mroman> I see it as chainsaw and wire saw
16:23:24 <mroman> you can use either to cut off a branch from a tree
16:23:59 <mroman> It's not like one is inherently better
16:24:43 <mroman> they behave the same in most of the cases, but differently in some edge cases
16:25:49 <mroman> 99% of the stuff we do here at my workplace could easily be done in VSS or SVN or pretty much any other VCS
16:26:16 <mroman> and for the other 0.9% of the stuff you just re-clone the whole git repository...
16:27:41 <mroman> obviously if you really have distributed teams working all over the place then I would never ever recommend VSS
16:30:18 <mroman> It's just that if git displays some error messages, people will just re-clone the repository and/or do a force-push to the central repository
16:30:53 <ais523> what about both? force-push what you have, then re-clone from the version before the push
16:31:27 <mroman> and with github you basically have a central repository everybody is just pulling/pushing from the master branch :D
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16:31:49 <mroman> I'm lucky if people here use branches correctly
16:32:00 <mroman> for most it's too much of a nuisance to get branches working
16:32:22 <mroman> just downloading a new branch from the remote is a nuisance
16:32:55 <mroman> fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches.
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16:34:10 <mroman> really the average developer I know (including myself) doesn't really know how to handle git beyond creating a new branch, push and pull
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16:35:22 <mroman> I know a little bit about rebasing, squash merging and that
16:35:40 <mroman> but if I see a cryptic error message I just rename the folder and re-clone the repos then manually integrate my stuff
16:36:55 <mroman> I'm also probably the only one at my company working with multiple origins :)
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16:46:08 <izabera> 17:23 --> autonick2 (~Arachnius@185.83.148.33.static.user.gibfibre.com) has joined #bash
16:46:10 <izabera> 17:23 <autonick2> Hi there, Im trying to send a smtp mail from commandline, and isnt working: echo "test" | mailx -s "SUBJECT" -S smtp=smtp://mail.digitalgraph.com.br -S smtp-auth=login -S smtp-auth-user=chviagra@digitalgraph.com.br -S smtp-auth-password=kJfe365 -S from="Sender Name <chviagra@mail.com>" recipient@mail.com
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16:51:15 <moon_> what platfrm and what shell?
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17:00:45 <zzo38> I think it has sometimes been said that fossil is for cathedral-style and git is for bazaar-style
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17:10:50 <moon_> {func[args:a,b;ret:c]: pu-a; pu-b; poc-c; }
17:11:46 <moon_> pu is push and poc is pop and combine
17:11:55 <moon_> im making a new esolang, but with a syntax
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17:18:21 <FireFly> moon_: vaguely reminds me of K's {[a;b]a+b} syntax for functions
17:19:09 <moon_> also, the language is named 'fumble' for its funky syntax
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17:25:20 <moon_> here is another intresting (at least to me) feature of fumble:
17:25:20 <moon_> > is used in variables to signify that whenever they are modified, feed their value to this function (or regex) and set self to return.
17:25:22 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:9: parse error on input ‘in’
17:25:37 <moon_> thanks lambda bot, but that is not a program
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17:27:43 <moon_> < does the somewhat opposite, it makes the variable always equal to the last output of a certain function or regex, or makes it always equal a certain variable
17:28:09 <moon_> fumble also supports wildcards for <, which makes it always equal the last function return.
17:31:38 <moon_> huh, no-one intrested?
17:32:10 <zzo38> Are you going to write these detail in esolang wiki?
17:32:13 <zzo38> Probably you should do
17:32:38 <moon_> the esolang wiki needs more esolangs with syntax :P
17:33:02 <b_jonas> it needs the exact opposite
17:33:14 <moon_> lol but brainfuck derivatives
17:33:21 <moon_> there are hundreds
17:33:25 <b_jonas> it needs esolangs that have some interesting properties other than just surfacial syntax obfuscations
17:33:29 <moon_> i hope your joking
17:33:39 <b_jonas> and bf derivatives are exactly what we don't need more of
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17:37:09 <moon_> also, once im done, i should excercise myself and make a interpreter for it
17:43:46 <moon_> by the way, its self modifying
17:44:07 <moon_> well, against functions wrapped into the main one, at least, but hey, the modifications can be conditional
17:48:50 <moon_> {func2[args:a,b,c;ret:d]: [{func}] ial-funcw-2-"pu-c" rml-funcw-4 al-funcw-"[var1];" al-funcw-"poc-var1;" al-funcw-"pu-var1;" al-funcw-"poc-d" }
17:49:10 <moon_> ial is insert after line, al is append line, and rml is remove line.
17:52:29 <moon_> so far, what do you all think?
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18:30:30 <prooftechnique> Isn't every TC language ultimately just a bf derivative?
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18:35:34 <moon_> i just lost the entire 2000+ byte page on fumble
18:35:44 <moon_> thanks alot windows C&P
18:36:10 <izabera> `` paste <(head -c 2000 /dev/urandom | base64) # there you go moon_
18:36:28 <\oren\> i prefer to deploy pages using scp
18:36:31 <moon_> i dont think that woks
18:36:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.4349
18:36:50 <prooftechnique> You should use a clipboard history manager of some sort
18:37:28 <\oren\> or use the tmux clipboard and not the windows one
18:38:09 -!- moon__ has joined.
18:38:50 <moon__> do you have access to the esolang wiki's preview system log (if it has one)
18:39:04 <\oren\> go to tim hortons they have good intenret
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18:40:49 <\oren\> lamdabot is not wroking!!!!
18:44:16 -!- moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:44:42 <\oren\> he last spoke 11 hours ago according to my scrollback
18:45:21 <\oren\> but he hasnt logged out
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18:52:21 <Moon_> im using mirc this time
18:53:54 <prooftechnique> Because it's staggeringly old, and basically the work of one guy
18:54:20 <Moon_> its also paid now, well mostly at least
18:54:25 <Moon_> theres a 'continue' button
18:54:30 <Moon_> that doesnt close the application
18:54:40 <coppro> Moon_: it's been like that for over a decade
18:54:40 <Moon_> yea, ima get a better one soon
18:54:57 <coppro> I don't think the "free trial" has ever really expired
18:55:51 <coppro> mirc is also why colours are fucked on IRC
18:57:09 <Moon_> also, how many self modifying languages have a full syntax
18:57:23 <Moon_> i.e code blocks and variables
18:58:19 <coppro> Moon_: back in the early days, different clients were trying different approaches to colours
18:58:52 <coppro> a method based on the ^C escape code eventually made it into the CTCP spec
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18:59:14 <moon__> the internet here is terrible
18:59:34 <coppro> 13:58:19 < coppro> Moon_: back in the early days, different clients were trying different approaches to colours
18:59:37 <coppro> 13:58:52 < coppro> a method based on the ^C escape code eventually made it into the CTCP spec
18:59:54 <coppro> mIRC implemented a slightly different spec, though
19:00:05 <coppro> it didn't receive larger support at first because it is ambiguous
19:00:15 <coppro> there are certain text+colour combinations you cannot send because they get misinterpreted
19:00:26 <coppro> the CTCP spec does not have this problem
19:00:29 <b_jonas> wait, isn't the mirc one the only one?
19:00:36 <coppro> Khaled resolutely refused to engage, however
19:00:37 <b_jonas> what's the ctcp one? can you give a link?
19:00:44 <coppro> so eventually the mIRC one won the adoption war
19:01:15 <moon__> think ctcp would've done better
19:01:31 <b_jonas> ah, so that's why I hadn't heard of it
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19:01:37 <moon__> and no misinterpritation (i cant spell)
19:01:44 -!- moon__ has changed nick to moon_.
19:03:31 <moon_> due to bad internet, i might have to make a script to beat ping to sending info so i dont disconnect
19:04:06 <coppro> b_jonas: http://web.archive.org/web/20070702054927/http://www.invlogic.com/irc/ctcp.html
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19:15:02 <Moon_> ill work on fumble a little later.
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19:49:22 <zzo38> The IRC that I use does not implement the mIRC colours
19:50:20 <izabera> free as in beer c course http://mooc.fi/courses/2016/aalto-c/en/
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20:03:49 <Moon_> well, hopefully i can get the page on Fumble up.
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20:10:46 <prooftechnique> Could somebody /me something? I'm testing my irssi format
20:11:18 <lambdabot> ?? ?@ ?run var$("(@metar "++).(++") \\ ")=<<words ?show
20:11:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: weather: not found
20:12:07 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
20:12:10 <lambdabot> CYUL 061900Z 24016G25KT 15SM FEW040 FEW055 SCT075 22/13 A2948 RMK CU1SC1AC1 SLP983 DENSITY ALT 1400FT \ ENVA 061850Z 26005KT CAVOK 17/09 Q1022 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 28007KT \ ESSB 061850Z 18009KT CAVOK 13/03 Q1023 \ KOAK 061853Z 31014KT 10SM FEW011 18/12 A2985 RMK AO2 SLP108 T01830117
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20:49:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47152 * Moon * (+2814) Created
20:53:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47153&oldid=47152 * Moon * (+189)
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20:55:00 <Moon_> what does everyone think? (once you done reading fumble if you did)
21:04:11 <zzo38> That look OK so far, although perhaps some examples should also to be included
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21:07:34 <Moon_> Im adding those now, including factorial
21:11:34 <Moon_> also, to fumble, a 1 is 'true', no higher
21:13:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47154&oldid=47153 * Moon * (+368) Examples!
21:14:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47155&oldid=47154 * Moon * (+2)
21:16:46 <Moon_> No, fumble considers it neither, so a compare on true or false will not work
21:16:53 <Moon_> mainly because fumble'
21:16:59 <Moon_> s true or false is 1 or 0
21:17:43 <Moon_> you like the syntax proof?
21:18:34 <zzo38> And what happen if the condition is 2?
21:18:47 <Moon_> Nothing, its ignored
21:19:59 <Moon_> So useing 2 requires a little extra, also, a 'condition' is considered a bit of code that makes the first value on its personal stack the result
21:20:06 <Moon_> which that result is what is read
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21:20:33 <Moon_> so you can put a entire mini function in place of a small comparison in fumble
21:21:03 <Moon_> desnt look like anything on my screen proof
21:22:02 <Moon_> also, what do you think of the 'unless' comparison? i think its a unique one ,right?
21:24:25 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f ()
21:24:35 <lambdabot> unless p s = if p then return () else s
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21:25:24 <Moon_> Do they have something like 'continueuntil'?
21:27:21 <Moon_> continueuntil-< condition >(< code >) allows the main code to continue until a condition is met, once met, it preforms the code and once the code is done jumps back to the instruction it triggered on.
21:29:41 <Moon_> and what does that do? im no good at haskell yet
21:29:43 <prooftechnique> I don't think I totally understand what your continue until should do
21:29:47 <Moon_> i just understand some basic things
21:30:16 <Moon_> it doesnt do anything until its condition is met, it uses a thread to retry the condition every tick
21:30:30 <Moon_> you know, every time a instruction is processed
21:31:38 <Moon_> i.e continueuntil-{cmp-a-5}-(print "5!") wont execute until a contains 5 later during program execution
21:32:34 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f ()
21:32:35 <lambdabot> when p s = if p then s else return ()
21:32:57 <Moon_> doesnt look like it executes in the backround there
21:34:00 <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
21:34:45 <Moon_> which do you mean? continueuntil or when?
21:35:10 <coppro> `quote <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
21:35:17 <coppro> `addquote <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
21:35:23 <HackEgo> 1279) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
21:35:33 <Moon_> *fumbles around chat*
21:36:22 <Moon_> well anyways, what do you think of fumble proof?
21:36:32 <prooftechnique> Something like f a = async $ when (a == 5) (print "5") (a + 1)
21:37:27 <prooftechnique> Oh, sorry, I meant f a = async $ when (a == 5) (print "5") (f (a + 1))
21:38:21 <Moon_> i just might make a interpreter once i figure out how
21:38:45 <Moon_> i think mine will exclude the threading bits, i cause problems when im gaven just 2 extra ones :P
21:39:02 <Moon_> you caught something i overlooked
21:41:10 <shachaf> `` echo jackfruit >> tmp/fruit
21:41:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47156&oldid=47155 * Moon * (+58) negative literals
21:44:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47157&oldid=47137 * Moon * (+13) Added fumble to list
21:49:55 <Moon_> lucky for me C++ implents a stack already
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21:57:57 <Moon_> Also, ima make the interpreter hackego compatible
21:58:15 <Moon_> Unless shachaf or fizzie dont want that
22:01:22 <Moon_> should i put fumble on hackego?
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22:14:19 <Moon_> i just ran into something annoying
22:14:56 <Moon_> if (rawprog.at(counter) == "{")
22:14:59 <Moon_> does not work because
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22:15:10 <Moon_> C:\Users\Braden\Desktop\Desktop\Fumble\main.cpp|22|error: ISO C++ forbids comparison between pointer and integer [-fpermissive]|
22:15:55 <Moon_> i have to toggle something to disable it >_>
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22:18:48 <Moon_> now its borked, ill just use a C string >_>
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22:21:50 <Taneb> Moon_, why don't you dereference the character and compare to '{'?
22:22:33 <zzo38> {1}, {T}: Target permanent controlled by opponent gains your choice of first strike, vigilance, hexproof, flying, or infect, until end of turn. If the number of cards below this ability on the stack is exactly six, then this ability cannot be countered by spells and abilities.
22:25:28 <Moon_> well i just wrote a big chunk with c strings, i dont feel like rewriting again
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22:32:19 <Taneb> zzo38, is that one of your puzzle cards?
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22:32:34 <zzo38> I just made it up right now
22:32:53 <Taneb> It certainly seems like it could be used for a puzzle
22:33:03 <zzo38> Yes, it does look like that.
22:34:17 <zzo38> I expect such card would be artifact, but I do not know what mana cost of the artifact. (Other changes could also be made, possibly.)
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22:40:51 <zzo38> Giving shroud or shadow seem it may be more powerful than it should be, giving banding or trample is pretty worthless, giving haste is too small effects, and giving phasing isn't really going to do anything anyways.
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22:48:05 <Moon_> 'fumble.exe has just fumbled' would be much more funny that 'fumble.exe has stopped working'
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23:00:44 <zzo38> Make the records of Magic: the Puzzling according to: most life points, most names of cards, most sets of cards, most priority passes, most damage, most mana, most objects on the stack, most names of permanents, most types of counters, most objects initially on stack, most nested subgames, most number of players, etc. (It only counts in cases where these numbers are bounded.)
23:01:08 <Moon_> wow, this might take me a while, i need to learn :P
23:01:15 <shachaf> zzo38: Why does it only count when they're bounded?
23:01:41 <shachaf> zzo38: For example, if someone has a countably infinite set of objects, and I have an uncountable set, surely I should win some sort of record.
23:02:10 <zzo38> Yes, but that is a different record. However, there are no uncountable sets in Magic: the Gathering anyways, as far as I know.
23:02:40 <shachaf> Well, that's why it would be a new record.
23:02:44 <zzo38> Note that even if the numbers are unbounded, if there is a well-defined minimum needed for correct solution, that would count though.
23:04:32 <zzo38> (There aren't any infinite sets of objects in Magic: the Gathering either, although some are unbounded.)
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23:09:01 <Moon_> You know what, for now, im not skilled enough t make a fumble interpreter
23:11:27 <Moon_> i certainly wish i was >_>
23:13:11 <Moon_> hey, anyone wana try their hand at it?
23:13:19 <Moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fumble
23:15:44 <shachaf> If you wish to examine a granfalloon, just remove the skin of a toy balloon.
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23:18:05 <boily> Moon_: it was a customary porthello hth
23:28:25 <hppavilion[1]> It's kind of hilarious how games have to specify "Online interactions not rated by ESRB"
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23:31:18 <shachaf> Taneb: "the ability to prove Lambek's lemma is a litmus test of whether you can think categorically"
23:31:27 <hppavilion[1]> "As it turns out, ESRB has not analyzed every possible behavior of every person who could ever play this game, and thus have not rated the people you will encounter online"
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23:31:53 <shachaf> The game Hearthstone has no chat feature.
23:32:10 <shachaf> People can only interact by saying one of six or so predefined phrases.
23:32:31 <shachaf> I think the ESRB could manage that.
23:34:11 <zzo38> You could try to use that to encode an IP address and port number, so that you can then use other program for chat.
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00:02:44 <int-e> oerjan: have you come to dispel the myths of this channel's premature demise?
00:05:30 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Every time someone says that it reminds me of that StackOverflow answer. <-- a quick google didn't find what you're talking about tdnh
00:06:03 <shachaf> @google magic haskell reflection
00:06:04 <lambdabot> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17793466/black-magic-in-haskell-reflection
00:06:04 <lambdabot> Title: Black Magic in Haskell Reflection - Stack Overflow
00:08:53 <moon__> im writeing up another example for fumble: pretending that it understands what the heck a decimal point is
00:09:06 <oerjan> ah i kept the you instead of the magic.
00:16:33 <prooftechnique> Whenever I see Proxy, the code makes perfect sense as long as I replace it with "whatever you need it to be"
00:16:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47158&oldid=47156 * Moon * (+305) Added Decimal Numbers example -Moon_
00:16:52 <shachaf> If you replace Proxy with @, everything'll work out.
00:17:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47159&oldid=47158 * Moon * (-40) minor error
00:18:20 <\oren\> I'm leaving for Tokyo tomorrow.
00:19:14 <moon__> oerjan, what do you think of fumble?
00:21:58 <oerjan> this might have something to do with not having looked at it.
00:23:57 <oerjan> moon__: for an esolang, its main unusual feature seems to be _not_ using single character commands hth
00:24:28 <moon__> instead it has a full syntax
00:24:47 <moon__> makes it more intresting, really
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00:29:54 <oerjan> . o O ( someone should get hold of peer and give him a good beating )
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00:33:23 <moon_> my laptop's batter fell out >_>
00:37:05 <oerjan> i guess it hasn't been properly baked.
00:38:35 <moon_> Oerjan, i can give you the factorial of the sum of your username
00:39:12 <moon_> {main[args:num]: print-num print-"'s factorial is" [tmp,tmp2,tmp3,sum] until-{cmp-tmp2-1}( set[tmp,num] dec-tmp2 mult-tmp2-num po-tmp3 set-sum-tmp3 set-tmp-tmp2 ) print-sum }
00:39:31 <shachaf> didn't oerjan just say he didn't want it
00:39:59 <moon_> 'not particularly' is not synonym to 'didnt want', its like 'maybe'
00:40:27 <oerjan> no, it's diplomatic for "didn't want" hth
00:40:39 <moon_> eh, didnt take that into account
00:41:24 * oerjan is reminded of an anecdote about norwegian-korean culture collision
00:41:54 <oerjan> basically koreans (and i think many other asians) will never outright say "no" to an invitation.
00:42:17 <prooftechnique> :::==== ::: :::==== ::: :::==== :::======= :::==== :::===== ::: ===
00:42:20 <prooftechnique> ::: === ::: ::: === ::: ::: === ::: === === ::: === ::: ::: ===
00:42:22 <prooftechnique> === === === ======= === === === === === === ======== === =====
00:42:27 <prooftechnique> ======= === === ======== ====== === === === === ======= ===
00:42:44 <prooftechnique> It's when someone gives you something without expecting something in return, hth
00:42:48 <moon_> lol i broke the words
00:43:01 <oerjan> her actual response was "maybe i'll try", which the norwegian interpreted as that she might come.
00:43:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not focused enough hth
00:43:55 <shachaf> oerjan: proof that you're norwegian hth
00:46:55 <oerjan> prooftechnique: apparently the question of whether to say no to food, when, and whether to accept such a no, is somewhat of a cultural collision even inside norway. although not anywhere i recall being.
00:47:42 <oerjan> in some communities you're supposed to say no several times before accepting.
00:48:20 <oerjan> (and of course this is an international mess)
00:48:59 <oerjan> which leads to the case where you might want more food, be polite in your way, and the host might interpret it as a final no.
00:49:53 <prooftechnique> oerjan: I have that problem in Sweden, as well. I don't want to imply that I didn't like the food, but I don't want to be a glutton
00:50:35 * oerjan has been known to take the last piece of cake hth hth
00:50:46 <prooftechnique> Though I have that problem everywhere. Except at home, I guess. Only God can judge the amount of pork I eat at home
00:51:09 <moon_> i want to make a interpreter for N--, how should i handle the variable system? http://esolangs.org/wiki/N--
00:51:10 <prooftechnique> The last piece of cake? You're a real monster, and no mistake
00:51:37 <oerjan> dammit, double hth again
00:52:15 <prooftechnique> moon_: Start by making them immutable, then tweak accordingly. :D
00:53:18 <\oren\> I've now booked my hotel. I'm staying in a capsule hotel
00:53:53 <prooftechnique> moon_: Do as I said in C. Then `sed 's/const//g' yourfile.c`
00:54:40 <prooftechnique> I usually pay upwards of a thousand USD, and that's at a hotel that likes me o.o
00:55:08 <\oren\> Well, a capsule hotel is a hotel that is very... minimal
00:55:12 <moon_> ill just use a 2d array: vartable[26][26]
00:55:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Why do you keep a de-hthing script if you just work around it all the time?
00:56:07 <\oren\> There are separate floors for men-only and women-only
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00:57:28 <\oren\> anyway if they want to do that there atre love hotels that give you a nice soft bed
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01:01:31 <moon_> how do i convert a letter to its respective place in the alphabet?
01:03:47 <oerjan> in ascii, that is. if you're using ebcdic you're on your own.
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01:05:24 * oerjan imagines prooftechnique's line being self-referential.
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01:13:28 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> (Wikipedia doesn't hate fun, right?) <-- you were being sarcastic, right?
01:14:00 <oerjan> it definitely hates fun in the main article namespace, and only somewhat tolerates it elsewhere.
01:14:59 <oerjan> although the "Did you know" section on the front page seems to have misleading descriptions on occasion, and not just on April 1.
01:15:51 <oerjan> wait are you 1 hour idle and still not pinged out
01:16:11 * oerjan needs to tweak his idle detection algorithm
01:17:37 <moon_> N-- will soon have a interpreter
01:18:06 <quintopia> that porthello makes me nauseated for some reason
01:18:18 <quintopia> it sounds even grosser than "queef"
01:19:57 * oerjan now regrets looking that up
01:20:01 <quintopia> i can't come to work, boss. I'm quevening all over the bathroom floor!
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01:49:06 <moon_> did you look at my new esolang? its not singlechar and has a syntax
01:49:23 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fumble
01:50:16 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: They should be third-person with a touch of second-person when necessary
01:50:42 <prooftechnique> Occasional 4th person for the purpose of reducing ambiguity
01:50:55 <moon_> Sorry, Im not the best writer
01:51:16 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_person#Additional_persons
01:52:35 <moon_> well what do you think of it, tho?
01:52:36 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Ah, yes, "one" works too, though I prefer to call that zeroth person
01:53:00 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Non-English languages have other persons beyond the indefinite one
01:53:31 <prooftechnique> They have thing like "him" but also "him, but closer to me than that other one"
01:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Also, there are code excerpts that aren't in monospace, and that drives me crazy
01:53:49 <prooftechnique> Where closer is either due to proximity or some intangible quality
01:53:56 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: I think that this is a first draft for the moment.
01:54:18 <prooftechnique> I wonder how much of a language could be implemented in MS Word formatting codes
01:54:46 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: No, really. It isn't properly formated, so it's very difficult to read
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01:58:33 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Set your default font to monospace, hth
01:59:41 <prooftechnique> Though all these unintended ligatures are a bit odd :D
02:00:25 <moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fumble
02:04:23 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I assume that there's an out-of-control trolleycar which you can direct onto one of three tracks by changing points
02:04:38 <ais523> and you know that two of the tracks are blocked by people
02:04:55 <ais523> after you move the points, someone who can see the tracks tells you that one of the tracks you didn't pick has a person on it
02:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Or, more accurately, there are more people on one track than on the other two
02:05:03 <ais523> do you change the points to the other unknown track?
02:05:16 <ais523> no, has to be more on two than the other one
02:05:35 <ais523> monty hall problem requires one desirable outcome and two undesirable outcomes to work
02:05:42 <ais523> if you have two desirable and one undesirable
02:06:00 <ais523> then either the host tells you about the undesirable outcome and it doesn't matter whether you switch, it's desirable either way
02:06:03 <zzo38> Do any of the tracks have something that can stop the train?
02:06:06 <ais523> or the host tells you about a desirable outcome, in which case you just take it
02:06:19 <ais523> zzo38: in this problem, people normally assume no
02:06:24 <ais523> although that's unrealistic
02:06:37 <hppavilion[1]> "OK, you chose door C. Now we're going to open door A, which has a goat. Would you like to switch doors?"
02:06:44 <ais523> as the problem involves a set of points, and you have a decent chance of being able to stop a train by changing the points setting while the train is over the points
02:07:30 <ais523> I guess the points could have a safety feature that prevents them being changed when a train is nearby
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02:08:04 <moon_> that problem gae me anothe esolang idea, one powered by trains and points
02:08:12 <ais523> this actually happened in the london underground runaway that's possibly the closest real life has come to the trolley problem (as a bonus, nobody was hurt, although nobody had enough information to know that that would be the outcome)
02:08:22 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Actually, I have the patent rights to that esolang idea.
02:08:30 <prooftechnique> You're all ignoring the obvious. Take a plane instead and you won't have to deal with this conundrum
02:09:12 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: But how do we kill people and make it look like an accident or the-best-of-a-bad-situation when it's a plane?
02:09:52 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... The trolley problem becomes a lot more complicated when you know the person you can switch to AND you have reason to hate them- say, your spouse had an affair with them
02:10:06 <hppavilion[1]> Because then it seems like you could conceivably charge it as murder
02:10:23 <prooftechnique> Even more complicated if you care more about their happiness than about their fidelity
02:12:19 <hppavilion[1]> An IRC client that makes you trade nicks with other people using that client at random
02:12:28 <ais523> here: https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/547c8feae5274a428d00015b/R092011_110615_Highgate.pdf
02:12:42 <hppavilion[1]> (even messages mentioning that person get substituted for your nick)
02:12:50 <ais523> the basic summary is that a an engineering train ran away on the london underground
02:13:06 <ais523> and the signallers went to a lot of effort to move all the other trains out of its path
02:13:12 <moon_> Hmm, neuron based esolang...
02:13:22 <prooftechnique> prooftechnique: That sounds like a very annoying IRC client
02:13:30 <zzo38> If your name is a common word, then it is something else.
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02:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, "it is administered by the Internet Office of the Holy See."
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02:17:10 <hppavilion[1]> Damn, I was hoping to get my hands on porn.va and use it to offend every catholic everywhere
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02:17:54 <prooftechnique> I would host a language to serve as a direct counterpoint to Go
02:18:16 <prooftechnique> Though it would also be great for hosting pirated PBS specials
02:18:33 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Is it even possible to pirate a PBS special?
02:20:12 <zzo38> Of course it is possible to steal from a non-profit. But I don't expect pirating PBS specials for them to lose anything.
02:21:53 <oerjan> morocco is marokko in norwegian, anyway.
02:28:32 <prooftechnique> I'm extremely disappointed that abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw.xyz is taken
02:28:55 <ais523> is it taken by Alphabet, by any chance?
02:29:30 <prooftechnique> It is not. It is actually taken by xyz.com, a registrar for .xyz domains
02:29:33 <moon_> No, taken by xyz :P
02:30:12 <moon_> if only i had a personal website named moon.esoteric lol
02:31:08 <moon_> I'd be honoring the esoteric channel by that lol
02:33:04 <zzo38> select(typeof('\'')x){}/*'))where 0;/*/main(){puts("Hello, World!");}//*/select'Hello, World!';
02:34:53 <moon_> try doing that in N--
02:35:24 <shachaf> But abc.xyz is taken by Alphabet.
02:35:27 <zzo38> prooftechnique: What does it look to you?
02:36:34 <zzo38> No it isn't. (I tried, and it doesn't work.)
02:37:31 <moon_> try searching that in the esolang iki
02:38:23 <zzo38> I doubt you could search for such a mess on Google effectively anyways.
02:38:28 <zzo38> prooftechnique: I wrote it.
02:39:50 <zzo38> prooftechnique: What do you think it is? Maybe you can try to understand by yourself too?
02:42:31 <zzo38> Do you know any C programming?
02:43:44 <prooftechnique> It just prints "Hello, World!". That was what I expected from the Cish bits
02:44:32 <zzo38> It also defines (and then doesn't use) a function called "select"
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02:48:52 <oerjan> i think the other language is SQL
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02:49:55 <oerjan> and it works because they treat '\'' differently, so C thinks that's one char but SQL continues with a string to the next '
02:51:12 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... A programming language where the code is the color and the markup is the text?
02:51:51 <prooftechnique> oerjan: I think most SQL dialects will choke on typeof
02:52:28 <oerjan> prooftechnique: oh hm...
02:52:46 <oerjan> maybe it doesn't care what's inside because of the "where 0"?
02:53:18 <zzo38> There is a "typeof" function in SQLite at least.
02:55:19 <zzo38> It can be shortened by moving the zero
02:55:33 <zzo38> (by just one byte)
02:56:24 <zzo38> Here is the shortened version: select(typeof('\'')x){}/*'))where/*/main(){puts("Hello, World!");}//*/0;select'Hello, World!';
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03:42:36 <FreeFull> prooftechnique: Added restriction, no spaces in the one-liner
03:43:42 <FreeFull> I mean, that would make it even more fun
03:43:58 <FreeFull> That particular one-liner already is almost spaceless, there are only spaces in the strings
03:44:16 <FreeFull> So if you're fine with Hello,World! it'd be good
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04:08:14 <HackEgo> 1279) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
04:08:34 <oerjan> `sled quotes//1279s/ / /
04:08:42 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
04:08:59 <HackEgo> 1279) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races
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04:49:14 <HackEgo> 582) <monqy> where is this going. why is this going.
04:49:26 <\oren\> That Moon_ has a short orbit
05:10:07 <Sgeo_> Hmm. Apparently I voted differently from at least one member of #esoteric
05:11:30 <zzo38> Voted differently on what?
05:11:47 <Sgeo_> Who to vote for in the US primaries
05:14:54 <pikhq> How do you know that?
05:15:12 <Sgeo_> pikhq, because I saw your status + comments on that status
05:15:17 <pikhq> Oh, right. That. :P
05:15:56 * pikhq definitely voted for Sanders, though honestly at this point it's more about messaging-in-polls than anything else.
05:16:12 <pikhq> Odds of Clinton being nominated are like 99.9% or something.
05:16:27 * Sgeo_ voted for Clinton, largely concerned about competence and electability.
05:16:44 <Sgeo_> I think I've pushed myself in too much of an anti-Bernie bubble
05:17:39 <pikhq> I'm also voting pretty much right at the end of the primary season which means that I know, and vote based on that.
05:18:38 <pikhq> And, honestly, as far as I can tell Bernie is fairly competent and would do reasonably as President.
05:18:46 <pikhq> Now, *electable*, that's a different question entirely.
05:19:13 <pikhq> But not one I need to think about when my vote is effectively just saying "I support more liberal policies from Democratic party".
05:21:53 <Sgeo_> I will say that I think everyone in both campaigns is disappointed at the thought of lowered turnout
05:24:55 <pikhq> Yeah... I do not like the idea of Trump winning because of lower turnout from Dems.
05:25:09 <pikhq> Especially with potentially 3 different SCOTUS justices up for nomination.
05:26:00 * Sgeo_ meant more acutely lower primary turnout tomorrow because of the nomination being called for Clinton
05:35:24 <pikhq> In CA it's kinda important even ignoring the President though; a Senate office is up for election, and the incumbent isn't running.
05:40:04 <oerjan> oerjan> although the "Did you know" section on the front page seems to have misleading descriptions on occasion, and not just on April 1. <-- also puns. like, the last one right now...
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06:20:28 <zzo38> I have made up the classifications of possible external ante rules for Magic: the Gathering, which are: scoreless-per-duel, scored-per-duel, scoreless-per-match, scored-per-match, scoreless-per-tournament, scored-per-tournament, prize-altering, permanent. (These are just broad classifications, and many formats are possible in each one.)
06:23:47 <shachaf> Do you score less per duel than ever before?
06:25:56 <zzo38> "Scoreless-per-duel ante" means that all ownership changes end at the end of a duel, and do not further affect the tournament in any way (the only thing that affects it is who won that duel).
06:27:41 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, in all official tournaments, it is not played for ante, and all ante cards are banned.
06:27:58 <shachaf> You're suggesting an illegal tournament?
06:28:00 <zzo38> Permanent ante is not suitable if using borrowed cards or custom cards; the others are suitable even in these cases though.
06:28:24 <zzo38> shachaf: Actually, it does not even necessarily have to be a tournament.
06:28:24 <shachaf> It should be called "permanante".
06:28:35 <zzo38> O, that is what it is called. OK
06:51:25 <izabera> what's your take on these java api?
06:51:53 <izabera> ignoring the fact that a good half of the users here are google employees
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07:13:04 <oerjan> izabera: i think that's _possibly_ an exaggeration hth
07:13:18 <oerjan> (i only know two for sure.)
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07:13:44 <izabera> i can invite a few more to compensate
07:14:04 <oerjan> izabera: ok, but then they have to know haskell. mustn't upset the balance.
07:14:24 <Destructible_> I came up with an resoling, but now I do not know what to call it
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07:15:09 <izabera> i bet there's no language called myesolang on the wiki
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07:15:25 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Because, IIRC, TSP requires you to be able to quickly verify a correct solution
07:15:29 <izabera> https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?search=myesolang&title=Special:Search&fulltext=Search see?
07:16:04 <Cale> What about Visual MyEsoLang++
07:17:13 <Cale> #Visual #MyEsoLang
07:17:37 <izabera> that's either twittertalk or irc but it's not good for a language's name
07:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> An esolang based on #hashtags would be vaguely interesting
07:18:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Izabera * New user account
07:19:19 <Destructible_> I'd be making that after I actually finished this esolang I already made
07:19:56 <Cale> The execution of the program depends inextricably on what's trending
07:20:34 <izabera> wtf my name has a lowercase i
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07:22:21 <Destructible_> so, anyway, I still have no idea what to call my esolang
07:22:57 <hppavilion[1]> OH MY GOD http://i.imgur.com/R9JoJ9t.gifv IS AMAZING
07:23:30 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[1]: Are CPP macros Turing complete? Tht could be your hashtag language
07:24:07 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: what did i just witness?
07:24:34 <pikhq> prooftechnique: Long story short, "no".
07:25:16 <pikhq> Though they're close enough that the difference is probably pointless; you can easily get computations that run 'til the heat death, but are technically finite, with CPP macros.
07:25:31 <izabera> Destructible_: a rose by any other name...
07:26:23 <izabera> why does it need to be appropriate?
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07:28:35 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible_wat: Just randomly generate a string and call it that
07:29:34 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible_wat: ''.join([string.ascii_lowercase[random.randrange(0, len(string.ascii_lowercase))] for _ in (random.randrange(3, 15))]) (python, string and random must be imported)
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07:33:19 <izabera> i suggest a new language called heck, which is like hack but closer to its php roots
07:33:33 <izabera> in fact, every php interpreter is also able to interpret heck
07:34:31 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: but you could probably use chr()
07:35:37 <oerjan> <izabera> wtf my name has a lowercase i <-- sorry, capitalization is automatic. there are some workarounds for page titles and signatures.
07:35:49 <Elronnd> ''.join([chr(random.randrange(30,500) for _ in random.randrange(3,15)])
07:36:34 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Wait, is the TSP NP? <-- nope, it's not a decision problem.
07:38:25 <b_jonas> http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html http://magiccards.info/10e/en/290.html
07:39:01 <b_jonas> there are German printings of two M:tG cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards?
07:39:11 <b_jonas> I thought this wasn't supposed to happen
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07:44:27 <oerjan> b_jonas: things that aren't supposed to happen sometimes do hth
07:45:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: one class TSP is in is FP^NP, i.e. polynomial functions with an NP oracle.
07:45:23 <oerjan> although there's probably a slightly weaker one
07:45:56 <oerjan> "polynomial function" being a function computable in polynomial time.
07:46:59 <oerjan> the true NP version of TSP is "is there a path shorter than k"
07:47:09 <shachaf> oerjan: are you sure it's not a function with many names hth
07:47:13 <hppavilion[1]> Is there any substance less dense than pure Hydrogen 1?
07:48:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hm i recall there was some foam lighter than air. not sure about hydrogen.
07:48:42 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I know there's aerofoam (or something), but I don't think it's lighter than air; it's just really really light
07:48:45 <oerjan> i think that should be polyonymic. but i'm not sure, it looks ugly.
07:48:51 <shachaf> An anonomyial function is like a polynomial function, but you don't know its degree.
07:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> It can't really be lighter than air because it's 99.97% air
07:49:31 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i thought they vacuumed it or something?
07:50:12 <shachaf> I was pretty excited about aerogel a little over a decade ago.
07:50:24 <shachaf> And then I was surprised to find out that a company in the small (~10,000 people) town I lived in made it.
07:50:39 <shachaf> I called them and asked if I could get a sample but they said no.
07:51:24 <pikhq> If aerogel were lighter than air it'd *float*.
07:51:38 <shachaf> Maybe if I'd told them I was [redacted] years old they would've taken pity on me.
07:51:39 <b_jonas> I seem to remember they actually made versions lighter than air
07:51:55 <shachaf> Now I can't say the number because it would reveal my age.
07:52:06 <shachaf> Presumably because I wasn't offering any money.
07:52:09 <pikhq> b_jonas: Not impossible, but that'd imply they did something like manufacture it in a helium atmosphere.
07:52:48 <shachaf> I think the smallest sample you could buy was $100 or something.
07:53:00 <myname> i like the PAD-SAT problem
07:53:10 <b_jonas> pikhq: why would they have to manufacture it in a helium atmosphere? that'd be expensive. they'd just manufacture it in rarified air (near vacuum, it doesn't have to be really rare) or rarified nitrogen
07:53:37 <pikhq> I said "something like".
07:53:40 <pikhq> Those would work too.
07:54:44 <pikhq> "List of lists of sexually active popes" anyone?
07:55:02 <b_jonas> hmm, apparently they do manufacture it in a helium atmosphere, so it gets filled with helium for pressure
07:55:29 <shachaf> pikhq: Are you still pooching it up?
07:55:52 <pikhq> More or less, yup.
07:56:37 <hppavilion[1]> "People handling aerogel for extended periods should wear gloves to prevent the appearance of dry brittle spots on their skin."
07:56:45 <shachaf> Pooching away again in margaritaville.
07:58:49 <hppavilion[1]> So I probably can't buy some in my conceivable lifetime
08:00:48 <shachaf> I didn't realize that one of aerogel's applications involved menstruation.
08:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Why would you want that? Seems like a pretty bad application
08:01:30 <shachaf> Also how long is an extended period?
08:03:14 <shachaf> In Xanth, an ellipsis is used to summon the stork.
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08:08:33 <oerjan> shachaf: surely you need 10 periods for a stork, not just 3
08:09:05 <shachaf> am i missing one this time
08:11:02 <hppavilion[1]> "When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much and want to have a baby, they have sex. They keep having sex, right in front of the stork, until he gives in and puts in a request for a baby delivery to make them stop. Then, 9 months later due to bureaucratic procedures, a baby is delivered"
08:12:31 <shachaf> The best I can think of is that a pregnancy lasts about 9 months, but it must be something else.
08:13:37 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And a period is slightly less than monthly, so about 10 periods are "lost" when a baby is gestating
08:20:07 <hppavilion[1]> (Fun fact: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY is a palindrome)
08:21:26 <HackEgo> fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
08:21:28 <oerjan> fun fact: HackEgo is damn slow
08:22:05 <myname> is that supposed to be haskell?
08:22:57 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan kmc
08:23:28 <HackEgo> 1/1:<oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <oerjan> sed -i \'s/|/ |/\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <oerjan> sed -i \'1N; s/\\n *//\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <oerjan> revert \ <oerjan> sed -i \'1N; s/ *//\' wisdom/fun\\ fact \ <kmc> printf \'fun fact 0 = 1\\n | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)\\n\' > wisdom/fun\\ fact \
08:26:22 <myname> fun fact: i discussed a german translation for "fun fact" with a few people and we decided it to be "ulkiger umstand"
08:26:30 <deltab> USING ALIEN TECHNOLOGY
08:26:49 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU
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08:27:31 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/md/htuqqx12.html
08:27:37 <mroman> 10% pixels is way too much :D
08:29:31 <zzo38> When I use xdpyinfo it says there is 96 visuals, and then lists them, all details seem same for each one except some are TrueColor and some are DirectColor, and one of them has 32 planes while the rest have 24. Do you know what is the purpose of the many visuals?
08:30:15 <shachaf> 96 isn't a very big number compared to, say, 65536.
08:31:45 <int-e> glxinfo may give a clue
08:32:33 <int-e> (though not a complete answer)
08:32:40 * int-e doesn't know the complete answer
08:34:07 <deltab> zzo38: but there are all different somehow?
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08:35:49 <zzo38> deltab: I don't know!
08:37:32 <deltab> my guess is it's just the cartesian product of settings that can now vary independently but couldn't when the api was designed
08:37:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you know about antifunctions?
08:41:13 <shachaf> An antifunction maps an antiset to an antiset.
08:41:24 <shachaf> An antiset might be a set of memory locations, for instance.
08:42:08 <shachaf> So an antifunction : A -> B gives meaning to a set of memory locations B in terms of a set of memory locations A.
08:42:13 <shachaf> It can delete and duplicate elements of A.
08:52:22 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if I say "it is pronounced the same way as phnord", can you still see "phnord"
08:52:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hell, if I put it in a sentence, will the word just be missing?
08:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> And what if I make a list of every word up to a certain length? Will there just be a blank space where "fnord" should be? Will I be able to see it so I can't tell which one I can't see otherwise? Will it get deleted and all the others moved up?
08:53:59 <hppavilion[1]> If the others moved up, couldn't I just infer from which was missing what the word is?
08:58:59 <shachaf> Maybe you should read The Illuminatus! Trilogy.
09:01:34 <hppavilion[1]> ...I just realized that you can put a bucket of lava into a wooden chest in minecraft
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09:37:34 <HackEgo> 2016-06-07 08:37:02.395249000+00:00
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09:51:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: in M:tG, there are German printings of two cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards. this was news to me. do you know this already? and were you horrified when you found out?
09:51:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html //magiccards.info/10e/en/290.html
10:04:51 <shachaf> oerjan: do you know anything about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)
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11:46:33 <HackEgo> grimmargorp//Þór, Grimmargorpurinn hefur sloppið! Ragnarök eru nálæg!
11:48:13 <HackEgo> impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database.
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11:48:26 <hppavilion[1]> One of the weird things on the internet is warnings that don't make sense
11:48:29 <hppavilion[1]> "Also, be advised that we work closely with law enforcement and we report child exploitation."
11:48:56 <hppavilion[1]> That is, "PROTIP: Don't put your child porn here because we'll have to report you to the cops.
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11:53:02 <izabera> i read it as "don't put your child porn here because we got into troubles last time"
11:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But to me it seems like "Don't put it here because we aren't suited to hide it properly; google will give you some better places"
11:58:57 <izabera> i didn't actually google that
12:02:05 <izabera> does nsa even care about that?
12:02:50 <izabera> i don't actually know much of what nsa does other than supposedly spying on people
12:03:25 <izabera> that wouldn't threaten national security so i guess that's not their business
12:05:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47160&oldid=46815 * Sesshomariu * (+76) /* Examples */
12:05:48 <Phantom_Hoover> people did an impressive job of misinterpreting the snowden leaks as "the nsa is personally reading everything you do"
12:06:23 <boily> izabellora. everything can be grounds to threatening national security hth
12:07:09 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Shush, don't give the terrorists ammo you national-security-damaging heathen
12:09:40 <boily> Да здравствует партия!
12:15:53 <hppavilion[1]> "This is one of those things where if someone walks in you switch to porn cause it's easier to explain"
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12:20:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47161&oldid=47160 * Sesshomariu * (+0) /* Hello, world!(without string reversing) */
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14:13:31 * \oren\ googles how send probe Sarnus
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14:25:07 <Phantom_Hoover> it's been a while since i played ksp but it was never hard to get a few km/s of delta v into low orbit that way
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15:12:35 <HackEgo> olist 1039: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:44:13 <coppro> can someone please send some utf-8?
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16:03:42 <coppro> HQ plus/minus 2QB B = plus/minus B?
16:03:57 <coppro> Pe u with grave q P o y O?
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16:48:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Qwertyu63 * New user account
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16:54:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47162 * Qwertyu63 * (+1076) Created page with "This is a WIP project. Simple Lang: Simple Lang is a simple programming language designed to be easy to learn and read but hard to use. Values: There are two types of value i..."
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16:55:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47163&oldid=47162 * Qwertyu63 * (+54)
16:56:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47164&oldid=47163 * Qwertyu63 * (+178)
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16:58:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47165&oldid=47164 * Qwertyu63 * (+64)
17:18:28 <\oren\> I am undefeated by your puny UTF-8
17:19:42 <\oren\> But soon I will be without internet, because I am not taking a first-class ticket...
17:21:42 <\oren\> can I survive 12 hours without internet accesss???!?!
17:21:56 <\oren\> find out next time, on DRAGON BALL ZEEEEEE!
17:23:26 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: I built a new upper stage with three nuclear engines, and then docked it with a few large fuel tanks
17:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> getting to jool is <2km/s, getting to sarnus shouldn't be much more
17:26:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jinhub * New user account
17:27:36 <\oren\> I plan on having it visit all the moons of Sarnus and perhaps then swing out to Urlum or something, and then maybe even return to Kerbin, or I'll send out a cruiser to rendezvous with it in interplanetary space and collec the science...
17:28:58 <\oren\> Nasa are amateurs. They should start bringing things home from Pluto.
17:30:17 <\oren\> I build all my craft with a lot of extra deltav. My Duna probe ended up visiting Eve as well.
17:31:53 <\oren\> It helps for example that my "LKO shuttle" can land on Minmus and return
17:32:43 <\oren\> don't build to spec, overbuild and then see what it can do!
17:35:52 <\oren\> real space programs can't afford to do that I suppose
17:49:40 <\oren\> Yes of cource you can visit variousplants
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17:53:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DigitoriiX * New user account
17:57:25 <\oren\> and i installed some mods that add a bunch of new planets
18:00:05 <coppro> my unicode is still borked
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18:01:39 <coppro> oh wait, different terminal emulator
18:01:44 <coppro> maybe that's it. maybe.
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19:52:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47166&oldid=47161 * Sesshomariu * (+176) /* Examples */
19:53:45 <shachaf> b_jonas: how 'bout that olist, huh
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20:00:29 <int-e> 1039 has been olisted if that's the question
20:00:54 <b_jonas> shachaf: Redcloak casts some sort of funny life saving spell on himself that I didn't know
20:01:16 <int-e> oh you're not really talking about the olist
20:01:35 <b_jonas> which is especially funny if you consider that the M:tG spells with the strange translated names are also lifesaving spells
20:01:43 <shachaf> Do they go into one door per day?
20:01:57 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, they just hide, wait, and follow the heros
20:02:17 <shachaf> int-e: You're not even in the olist list.
20:02:53 <int-e> shachaf: hence the misunderstanding... I don't care about the comic
20:03:02 <int-e> so I though "olist" means "olist"
20:03:30 <int-e> and not "latest update to oots"
20:04:15 <shachaf> Well, you're apparently interested in olist updates, even if you're not interested in the underlying comic strip.
20:04:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: hey! are you trying to overwrite bin/olistlist ?
20:05:18 <HackEgo> cat: bin/olistlist: No such file or directory
20:09:41 <izabera> https://citra-emu.org/ cool
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20:19:48 <b_jonas> ais523: I found out something about M:tG today and it sort of shocked me. you might already be aware of it
20:20:04 <b_jonas> ais523: there are German printings of two cards whose German names are identical, despite that their English names differ, and also this German name is identical to the English name of one of those cards.
20:20:28 <b_jonas> ais523: http://magiccards.info/10e/de/290.html http://magiccards.info/m10/de/202.html
20:21:24 <b_jonas> ais523: how common is it? and why are they doing it? is it just a stupid mistake?
20:21:46 <shachaf> How do you tell which card a translated card is?
20:21:47 <ais523> b_jonas: very rare but not unheard of (there are a few similar examples), and mostly it's just by mistake
20:22:01 <shachaf> Does the English name appear somewhere on it?
20:22:15 <int-e> regenerate... regeneration... poor translators!
20:22:16 <ais523> shachaf: that's actually a really interesting point
20:22:29 <ais523> expansion symbol + collector number would be the obvious way to me
20:22:35 <ais523> but I'm not sure it's applicable in 100% of cases
20:22:50 <ais523> art would be another way, and the way that most players use in practice, but that wouldn't work for promo cards
20:23:14 <shachaf> When would it not be applicable?
20:23:48 <shachaf> If I remember correctly, officially the name is the only part of a card that really matters?
20:24:02 <shachaf> People can paint over the rest of it if they want. Or something like that.
20:24:24 <ais523> shachaf: the English name is the only part that officially matters
20:24:52 <ais523> and when altering a card, I believe the rule is that you have to leave the name and mana cost visible, and the art has to depict what the card is about
20:25:18 <ais523> (this is why basic lands are the most commonly altered cards; if you alter a Forest, you just have to draw a forest, and there are a huge number of ways to do that)
20:25:19 <shachaf> But the official art rarely depicts what a card is about.
20:25:45 <ais523> yes, this is why altering is difficult
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20:25:53 <ais523> for cards that depict a story character it isn't too hard
20:26:27 <shachaf> Anyway, if you have cards with identical non-English names, it seems like it would be problematic to alter them.
20:28:15 <b_jonas> ais523: old cards don't have collector numbers, but old cards also don't have translated versions, and I'm not sure how these compare in time
20:28:41 <ais523> very old cards don't have expansion symbols
20:29:02 <shachaf> Hmm, there's a promotional card printed in Hebrew.
20:29:41 <b_jonas> ais523: why it looks strange to me is that Regenerate is from M10, so I'd have thought at that point they were paying attention to these sorts of things
20:29:57 <shachaf> http://www.trollandtoad.com/p123476.html
20:30:05 <ais523> b_jonas: I get the impression that Wizards is severely understaffed
20:30:57 <shachaf> http://magiccards.info/query?q=staff
20:31:19 <shachaf> And "Staff of the X Magus" were all terrible.
20:32:18 <shachaf> I don't even understand those cards.
20:32:21 <shachaf> "Wizards.com is down for routine server maintenance."
20:32:23 <ais523> shachaf: those are apparently intentionally bad cards made to appeal to new players
20:32:33 <ais523> they write articles about them on occasion
20:32:46 <shachaf> I think I put one in my early decks.
20:32:51 <b_jonas> shachaf: a promo card in hebrew? wow
20:32:59 <ais523> there was a previous cycle with that purpose, "whenever a player casts a red spell you gain 1 life" etc.
20:33:16 <ais523> but it turned out to be fringe playable in very centralized metagames
20:33:24 <ais523> if you were playing red and your opponent was playing a red-based burn deck
20:33:25 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, Kraken's Eye cycle. I have thos
20:33:37 <shachaf> b_jonas: http://www.snazzorama.com/magic/lang/
20:34:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think I'm the only player in my group who sometimes plays with foreign language cards, and even I have very few of them
20:34:44 <b_jonas> only about a dozen, and some of them I have already replaced by English ones
20:34:51 <zzo38> Use it if you have a lot of red cards, especially if you are not playing any white cards too
20:34:58 <ais523> in other news, I visited a site with JavaScript turned off
20:35:14 <ais523> and the only thing visible was a link to http://www.whatbrowser.org/ , which I found hilariously passive-agressive
20:35:45 <ais523> (turns out there was other text in the page, saying something like "you need a browser that supports JavaScript to view this page", but it was accidentally black on black, presumably they don't test the page with JS off very often)
20:36:05 <ais523> the irony here is that whatbrowser doesn't really work with JavaScript turned off either
20:36:11 <ais523> and thus is a very bad link to use for that purpose
20:36:39 <b_jonas> what the heck is whatbrowser?
20:37:43 <b_jonas> shachaf: wait what? that page seems to tell only how to identify the _language_ of the card from the card. how is that even useful?
20:37:52 <b_jonas> I assumed it was trying to tell how to identify what card it is
20:37:58 <b_jonas> like, the English name of the card
20:38:36 <shachaf> b_jonas: I was confused by the same thing.
20:38:52 <shachaf> b_jonas: But I just linked to it for the list of five one-off cards.
20:39:16 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't know, I'd never seen it before
20:39:18 <ais523> but I linked it earlier
20:39:47 <b_jonas> "The following five promotional cards are each printed in a language that no other cards are. From left to right, the languages are Hebrew, Arabic, Sanskrit, Classical Greek, and Latin."
20:40:00 <b_jonas> and they're not even Un-promos
20:40:19 <shachaf> Anyway we never used non-English cards.
20:40:29 <shachaf> We only used cards from booster boxes, in fact.
20:40:50 <shachaf> Because we felt like WotC wasn't making nearly enough money, I guess.
20:41:15 <b_jonas> shachaf: aren't there foreign language booster boxes? I mean, I think that's where most foreign language cards come from
20:42:04 <shachaf> But I suspect that English-speaking players who use non-English cards usually get them individually, not in boxes.
20:42:26 <b_jonas> it's very lucky there are no hungarian language cards. if there were, I'd be flooded with stupid translated cards probably.
20:43:37 <b_jonas> Munchkin has hungarian translation, but luckily it's not a collectible cg
20:43:43 <shachaf> I kind of want to get the Hebrew card.
20:43:59 <shachaf> I guess it's not even Modern-legal.
20:44:08 <shachaf> I could make a Commander deck.
20:44:36 <b_jonas> and munchkin has a card that gets a bonus against creatures whose names start with a letter "J"
20:45:25 <b_jonas> http://magiccards.info/ptc/en/17.html => yep
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21:59:17 <HackEgo> smlist kickstarter: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
21:59:49 <HackEgo> smlist 438: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
21:59:51 <HackEgo> smlist 439: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
22:03:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:08:00 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:10:10 -!- pikhq has joined.
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22:33:29 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, you're the only person on this list still in the channel
22:33:38 -!- qrf has joined.
22:34:06 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: people might be reading under another name or from the logs
22:34:06 <shachaf> But if I keep up the notifications other people might get interested.
22:34:25 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: I mean, I have some alternate nicknames highlighting me
22:34:35 <HackEgo> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
22:34:41 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: HEY! don't do that
22:34:47 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: `? smlist tells
22:34:48 <shachaf> Don't `anylist if there's no actual update.
22:34:54 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
22:34:55 <HackEgo> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
22:35:20 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: That one's already been listed.
22:35:22 -!- sheldon has joined.
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22:36:26 <HackEgo> pbflist is update notification for the Perry Bible Fellowship webcomic. http://pbfcomics.com/
22:36:50 <quintopia> does putting the number after it prevent it being sent more than once?
22:36:50 <shachaf> Why doesn't it say "smlist is ...", `learn-style?
22:37:06 <shachaf> Well, unless people read the logs.
22:37:19 <hppavilion[1]> Where can I find the amazing, god-like software used in http://xkcd.com/1690/?
22:38:07 <shachaf> If you fix it we should talk about how lists work.
22:38:16 <shachaf> Because really they ought to share code.
22:38:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: well, there's an mklist
22:38:39 <shachaf> Right, but mklist just copies.
22:38:56 <shachaf> So you can't retroactively change list code.
22:38:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh, you mean they should share code where you give a number and if that number was already listed for that list then it doesn't ping anyone?
22:39:10 <quintopia> or if you want something custom and manual: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/
22:39:18 <shachaf> The point is that the list code should only exist in one place in HackEgo.
22:39:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: ah, you mean good practices like code reuse
22:39:45 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: And how does it detect that I'm e.g. going through all the star wars movies and digitally replacing all of the lightsabres with regular metal swords?
22:39:47 <quintopia> b_jonas: that is what i'd like to have yes
22:39:58 <shachaf> So with the current scheme, a list might be something like 'name="$1"; shift; exec runlist "$name" "$@"'
22:40:17 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: TagTime does that, if you manually enter a tag to track that activity
22:40:27 <b_jonas> shachaf, quintopia: feel free to fix them, but I think it should be "$*" instead of "$1"
22:40:34 <b_jonas> although it probably doesn't matter
22:40:41 <b_jonas> since it's invoked with backtick usually
22:41:44 <shachaf> And then runlist would be something like 'grep -q "$2" share/listarchive/"$1" && exit; echo "$1" > share/listarchive/"$1"; tail -n+2 bin/"$1"'
22:41:56 <shachaf> Of course at that point there's no need to use this ridiculous self-modifying code scheme.
22:42:15 <b_jonas> shachaf: grep -qx probably
22:42:19 <shachaf> You can just have share/list/smlist containing usernames or something.
22:42:25 <shachaf> b_jonas: Look, that's why I said "something like".
22:42:39 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: I wrote that self-modifying thing in the first place.
22:42:56 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: as you have so astutely noted, anything less manual is AI-hard, and frankly, its existence would be terrifying
22:43:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: and you'd probably have to do something with empty or no argument
22:43:19 <shachaf> b_jonas: Also I mean 'echo "$2" >>', not 'echo "$1" >'
22:43:30 <shachaf> Look, that's why I said "something like".
22:43:54 <b_jonas> I just wonder what the semantics for that should be
22:43:57 <quintopia> is it wrong for b_jonas to suggest what space "something like" could span?
22:44:05 <shachaf> If you want to revamp lists, you should gopher it.
22:44:45 <quintopia> i don't have talent or a gopher client
22:59:19 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'for $l (glob("bin/*list")) { open$i,"<",$l or die; q[echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit]."\n" eq <$i> and print $l,"\n"; }'
22:59:21 <HackEgo> bin/aglist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/flist \ bin/ioccccccccclist \ bin/keenlist \ bin/llist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/wrlist
22:59:36 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'for $l (glob("bin/*list")) { open$i,"<",$l or die; q[echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit]."\n" eq <$i> or print $l,"\n"; }'
22:59:37 <HackEgo> bin/danddreclist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttellllllllist \ bin/dontaskdonttelllllllist \ bin/FireFlist \ bin/list \ bin/listlist \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/testlist
22:59:44 <b_jonas> just to see what we should replace
22:59:49 <shachaf> Also I hope it's not written in Perl.
23:00:02 <b_jonas> shachaf: what's not written in perl?
23:00:28 <b_jonas> shachaf: there isn't one yet
23:00:38 <shachaf> Do you prefer future tense?
23:00:43 <shachaf> I hope it won't be written in Perl.
23:02:04 <int-e> I hope it will not have been written in Perl. (have some future perfect!)
23:03:16 <b_jonas> where do we put execuables that shouldn't be executed directly? we don't have a libexec directory
23:03:25 <b_jonas> the list replacement backend (that each list invokes) should be there
23:03:36 <shachaf> I think it's fine to put in in bin/
23:03:42 <b_jonas> shachaf: nah, bin's in the path
23:03:50 <b_jonas> this shouldn't be in the path
23:04:03 <b_jonas> I could create a directory under lib or under share
23:04:25 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
23:04:41 <int-e> oh I knew that... didn't remember though
23:04:52 <b_jonas> I think I'm the culprit of that one
23:05:07 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott kmc kmc ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull Gregor nitia
23:05:29 <shachaf> b_jonas: Is keenlist a one-time list?
23:05:39 <shachaf> We've had others, like slist.
23:05:47 <shachaf> Self-deleting is a useful feature.
23:05:48 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
23:05:51 <int-e> `` rm canary; keenlist
23:06:08 <int-e> . o O ( there are no one-time lists )
23:06:49 <int-e> but this one isn't self-deleting anyway
23:07:14 <shachaf> A true self-deleting list ought to touch canary as well.
23:07:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: what does canary even do?
23:07:36 <b_jonas> and what does touching canary do?
23:07:43 <int-e> oh, I should turn the order around... thanks
23:08:18 <shachaf> HackEgo won't commit your changes if canary doesn't exist.
23:08:28 <int-e> the canary detects that the coal mine is running low on oxygen
23:08:49 <b_jonas> int-e: should be called davy-lamp then
23:09:13 <int-e> mostly it's a basic protection against rm -rf / kind of stuff
23:09:49 <b_jonas> int-e: but how does touching help? ah... right
23:10:06 <int-e> shachaf brought up touching
23:10:34 <int-e> which means I should rm it afterwards... or perhaps mv it away so that making it a directory doesn't help either... hmmmmmmm
23:10:49 <b_jonas> int-e: rm;mkdir it, that's probably safer
23:10:59 -!- augur has joined.
23:11:15 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000000000 0 39 Jun 7 22:10 canary
23:12:32 <int-e> b_jonas: I want it to be gone.
23:12:38 <shachaf> I've been trying to think of ways to delete canary.
23:12:40 <int-e> b_jonas: shachaf is the one who wanted to create it
23:12:59 <b_jonas> ``` rm canary && mkdir canary
23:13:03 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canary': Is a directory
23:13:14 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000000000 0 4096 Jun 7 22:12 canary
23:13:22 <shachaf> Thanks for breaking revert.
23:13:34 <b_jonas> ``` rmdir canary && touch canary
23:13:36 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `canary': No such file or directory
23:13:41 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
23:14:21 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
23:14:30 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000000000 0 0 Jun 7 22:13 canary
23:14:48 <HackEgo> File: `canary' \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 672260 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 500000000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-06-07 22:13:53.000000000000000 +000000000 \ Modify: 2016-06-07 22:13:52.00000000000000000000 +00000000 \ Change:
23:15:23 <int-e> `` ls -la /dev/urandom
23:15:24 <HackEgo> crw-rw-rw- 1 0 0 1, 9 Jan 29 2014 /dev/urandom
23:16:35 <int-e> `` ls -lart | tail -n1
23:16:38 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 7 22:16 ..
23:16:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
23:17:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sorry: not found
23:18:01 <fungot> b_jonas: i told haskell to print the type in any binding form. k is bound to some initialization at loadtime
23:18:05 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
23:18:15 <b_jonas> fungot: with monotype restriction?
23:18:34 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/shavention//s/\*list, //
23:18:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
23:18:44 <shachaf> b_jonas: now you have to reinvent lists hth
23:19:09 <shachaf> Taneb: Did you invent shaving?
23:19:22 <HackEgo> 1278) <Taneb> Morning <shachaf> G'daneb <shachaf> invent anything good overnight? <Taneb> I don't know yet, I haven't read the logs
23:19:44 <Taneb> shachaf, I did not invent shaving, otherwise I'd be better at it
23:20:12 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Tue Jun 07 23:20:11
23:20:37 <shachaf> Taneb: Sometimes the first person to do something is the worst at it.
23:20:49 <shachaf> Since everyone else is standing on the shoulders of giant Tanebs.
23:21:13 <lambdabot> *** "lawyer" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
23:21:13 <lambdabot> LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.
23:21:22 <int-e> why the extra newline...
23:23:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:23:37 -!- boily has joined.
23:23:45 <b_jonas> `? automatic squirrel feeder
23:23:49 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
23:25:01 <int-e> who are the squirrels fed to?
23:27:06 <b_jonas> `perl -e chdir "wisdom" or die; for $w (map {glob} qw"* */* */*/*") { if (open my$i,"<",$w) { local $/; my$t=<$i>; $t=~/invent/ai && $t=~/\btaneb/ai and print "|$w "; } }
23:27:10 <HackEgo> |automatic squirrel feeder |bbc |bdsm |bogosort |chu space |ci |costume |d-module |deniability |fundamental theorem of taneb |go |histogram |nih |nooodle |persistence |progres |real |shavention |stephen wolfram |tanebvention |tetris |the reals |the torus |the universe |this sentence |torus |universe |weetoflake |wolfram
23:27:13 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
23:27:19 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia.
23:27:26 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
23:27:27 <int-e> `learn English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
23:27:34 <HackEgo> Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
23:27:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'english': English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
23:27:48 <HackEgo> NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb.
23:27:53 <b_jonas> `? fundamental theorem of taneb
23:27:55 <HackEgo> The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent.
23:28:01 <HackEgo> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
23:28:03 <boily> int-e: the squirrels are fed to the automats hth.
23:28:28 <HackEgo> A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention.
23:28:32 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it.
23:28:40 <int-e> boily: darn. I was picturing things of nightmares... like the teletubbies.
23:28:40 <HackEgo> The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
23:29:38 <HackEgo> A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
23:30:06 <int-e> ... it's the opposite of a Truth algebra.
23:30:12 <b_jonas> did taneb invent lie algebras?
23:30:26 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
23:30:36 <Taneb> b_jonas, this time next year I'll have invented Lie algebras
23:30:40 <int-e> hmm. Taneb vented.
23:32:11 <boily> int-e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qvCQv-CDr4
23:33:26 <int-e> Now I want to connect venture capital, venting (which has to do with hot air), bubbles, and stock market bubble in partiuclar.
23:37:03 <b_jonas> ``` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. "
23:38:37 <HackEgo> submarine jousting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:38:45 <b_jonas> ^ should this have a wisomd entry? or is it a better joke unexplained?
23:39:04 <b_jonas> um, I mean, as an in-joke whose explanation we don't reveal
23:39:32 <b_jonas> (though the diligent can find it if they search the channel logs carefully)
23:39:59 <HackEgo> Lambek's lemma? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:40:06 <boily> `le/rn submarine jousting/This is unexplainable.
23:40:11 <HackEgo> Learned «submarine jousting»
23:40:14 <b_jonas> I've no idea what Lambek's lemma is though
23:40:54 <boily> Taneb: did you tanebvent lambek?
23:41:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:41:07 <b_jonas> boily: um, could you put that in a format where it has "submarine jousting", like "submarine jousting is unexplainable"?
23:41:40 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
23:41:41 <boily> `le/rn submarine jousting/submarine jousting is unexplainable.
23:41:44 <HackEgo> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
23:41:46 <HackEgo> Relearned «submarine jousting»
23:42:29 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
23:46:20 <zzo38> "Evil" is how you write "live" backward.
23:47:57 <boily> oerjan lives far away in the Land of the Frost Giants. he's probably a unique monster himself, reachable through a long, arduous sidequesr.
23:49:28 <zzo38> I think I figured out the problem with my NTSC decoder and fixed it now.
23:53:11 <quintopia> boily: oerjan is not actually reachable by any means, even visiting Niflheim in person
23:53:49 <quintopia> you can only cast magical IRC spells in his direction and hope some of them are overheard from such a distance
23:55:02 <quintopia> so here comes that weekend where you're free and i'm not
23:55:11 <quintopia> i'm p much never free weekends anymore!
23:55:14 * boily swings his mapole in the Summoning Dance. «y'où'c'que t'es rendu?»
23:55:37 <quintopia> if you teleport to philadelphia you might find me
23:56:26 <boily> you're in philly now? what is the nearest airport?
23:59:03 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, a googolplex is equivalent to ten trillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrest
23:59:03 <hppavilion[1]> rigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentillitrestrigintatrecentilliduotrigintatrecentillion
00:00:26 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, the smallest known factor of 10^10^100+1 is 316,912,650,057,057,350,374,175,801,344,000,001
00:03:32 <boily> hppavellon[1]. megagon.
00:03:53 <boily> uhm, no, not megagon.
00:05:23 <Koen_> so a googolplex is a hundredplexplex?
00:05:33 <boily> (meanwhile, while search-completing graham's number on wikipédia, this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammillaria_grahamii )
00:06:07 * izabera erases that from her browser history
00:07:21 <izabera> 01:00:26 hppavilion[1] | Hm, the smallest known factor of 10^10^100+1 is 316,912,650,057,057,350,374,175,801,344,000,001 <- just how did they manage to find it?
00:07:53 <boily> you have a browser history?
00:08:04 <izabera> i haven't found a way to disable it
00:08:17 <Koen_> I used to have a brother but that's history
00:08:18 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
00:08:40 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But they probably used exp-mod. I think it generalizes to up-arrow
00:08:46 <Koen_> izabera: isn't there an option to clear all memory everytime you close the browser?
00:09:09 <hppavilion[1]> Koen_: I suppose it is (googolplex = hundredplexplex)
00:11:52 <quintopia> i will be in philly in the weekend
00:12:23 <quintopia> the nearest airport is phl: philadelphia international
00:12:34 <quintopia> i don't know the corresponding metar station
00:13:21 <lambdabot> KPHL 072254Z 30008KT 10SM FEW060 SCT140 SCT250 26/12 A2950 RMK AO2 SLP989 T02560117 PNO $
00:13:29 <boily> sounds about right.
00:13:34 <lambdabot> CYUL 072300Z 27008G15KT 30SM FEW025TCU FEW050 FEW100 SCT240 18/12 A2941 RMK TCU1CU1AC2CI2 TCU TR CU TR SLP959 DENSITY ALT 1100FT
00:13:56 <boily> holy towering cumulus batman...
00:14:58 <quintopia> i was hoping boily would translate those
00:16:11 <hppavilion[1]> What's the complex equivalent of a Googolplex? That is, the canonical really-fucking-big complex number?
00:17:12 <izabera> doesn't googolplex count as a really-fucking-big complex number?
00:17:35 <boily> KPHL: report made at 10:54pm UTC June 7th. winds from the northwest, 8 knots. ground visibility 10 miles. few clouds at 6000', scattered clouds at 14000' and at 25000'. temperature is 26 °C, dew point 12 °C. QFE is 29.50 inHg. random automated trend stuff. weather station needs maintenance.
00:19:27 <lambdabot> LIMF 072250Z 27004KT 9999 TS VCSH SCT030CB 21/15 Q1021
00:19:43 <boily> CYUL: report at 11:00pm UTC June 7th. west winds, 8 knots with gusts at 15. ground visibility 30 miles. few clouds at 2500' with towering cumulus. few cumulus at 5000'. few altocumulus at 1000'. scattered cirrus at 24000'. temperature 18 °C, dew point 12 °C. QFE is 29.41 inHg, QNH is 995.9 hPa.
00:21:45 <boily> LIMF: report at 10:50pm UTC June 7th. west winds, 4 knots. no ground visibility limit. thunderstorms, with showers in the vicinity. scattered clouds at 3000'. don't know what CB is. temperature 21 °C, dew point 15 °C. QNH is 1002.1 hPa.
00:22:18 <boily> izabera: are you Italian?
00:24:13 <quintopia> boily: how does 3000 or 2700 mean "northwest" and "west"
00:24:41 <boily> it's only the first three digits that are part of the compass hth.
00:24:52 <boily> CB is cumulonimbus.
00:25:19 <quintopia> is it 300 degrees clockwise from north?
00:26:10 <boily> quintonne soiréeia!
00:27:07 <boily> @localtime izabera
00:27:07 <lambdabot> Local time for izabera is Tue, 07 Jun 2016 23:27:07 +0000
00:31:48 <izabera> did you know that google provides accurate stats on m:tg cards? http://i.imgur.com/C0YS9Y5.png
00:34:58 <hppavilion[1]> If the power n^m corresponds geometrically to the (hyper)volume of an m-cube with side-length n, what's tetration, anyway?
00:37:51 <Koen_> what if m is not an integer?
00:39:20 <hppavilion[1]> Koen_: Then you are dealing with a very strange universe
00:43:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:53:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i was about to quibble about all the disagreeing fractal dimensions but i guess hausdorf is more or less semantically what hppavilion described
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01:27:45 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to My.
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01:29:16 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: do you know anything about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology) <-- i've heard the term hth
01:29:42 <shachaf> Oh, I was going to make a placenta/placebo pun somehow.
01:30:04 <shachaf> And then I was reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placenta and it talked about homology of placentas and it reminded me of you.
01:31:17 <shachaf> I'm not quite reconstructing my train of thought there.
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01:36:17 <boily> shachaf: remember, oerjan is a Frost Giant hth
01:36:18 <oerjan> åhoily! finally, we reach the end.
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01:38:26 <oerjan> maybe i should have gone the {hoily path instead.
01:38:42 <oerjan> but that would soon give unprintable characters.
01:38:55 <boily> the porthoily that shan't be named.
01:39:50 <oerjan> i'm not a giant and i haven't even seen Frost hth
01:40:13 <boily> oerjan: how tall are you?
01:40:58 <oerjan> well i used to be 1.82 m, i cannot remember what it was last time i measured
01:41:36 <oerjan> actually i'm not even sure when.
01:42:16 <boily> ah, 6'. quite tall.
01:42:33 <oerjan> behold the hopeless command
01:43:31 <zzo38> But a giant is going to be even more tall isn't it?
01:43:38 <oerjan> behold the still almost hopeless command
01:44:06 <oerjan> zzo38: the problem isn't the command itself, but HackEgo's bad server that times out
01:44:18 <HackEgo> bonsaikitten//Bonsaikitten is the cat typing behind the glass of the CRT when you run the cat command.
01:44:19 <zzo38> Write a faster program
01:44:37 <oerjan> zzo38: frink is a programming language
01:45:24 <HackEgo> Error in '1.82m -> feet': Unknown unit '>'
01:45:36 <HackEgo> Definition: 0.014090294 m^3
01:46:17 <HackEgo> * 5.9711286 \ / 0.16747253
01:46:41 <oerjan> what's the second line for
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01:48:28 <HackEgo> tswett tswett shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia
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02:06:25 <zzo38> Do USB wall plugs automatically shut off once the device has finished charging?
02:07:26 <boily> I don't think so. do you have an ammeter with you?
02:10:25 <zzo38> My brother has a problem the fan for his computer is connected by USB to a wall plug, and sometimes it goes off and won't go on until the USB wall plug is unplugged and then plug in again.
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02:21:50 <izabera> so apparently i found a bug in bash and i'm wondering how serious it is from a security point of view
02:22:10 <izabera> bash can trap signals and i found a way to bypass a trap on sigalarm
02:22:43 <izabera> so if someone is running a security check of some sort when it gets a sigalarm, i can bypass that check
02:23:47 <izabera> i know nothing of security and i don't know how realistic that made up scenario is
02:24:28 <zzo38> It depend in what ways it might be bypassed I think, and I also don't know if there is something with the kernel that affects it?
02:24:42 <izabera> no it's just bash being stupid
02:26:26 <izabera> read -t 3 reads input with a 3s timeout, and it does so by calling setitimer and then catching the first sigalarm it gets
02:26:39 <izabera> which may or may not be the right one
02:26:42 * oerjan doesn't know what security programs if any are written in bash
02:26:52 <oerjan> sounds like a dangerous thing to do, anyway
02:27:54 <izabera> anyway if you have a trap on sigalarm and you deliver a sigalarm while your script is doing read -t, your trap never runs
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02:38:27 <zzo38> I don't expect that to be a problem.
02:38:45 <zzo38> You are just programming your script wrong if you do stuff like that.
02:39:04 <izabera> i don't think it's the user's fault
02:39:28 <zzo38> Yes, maybe it is te fault of the documentation, if it does not document that.
02:39:58 <izabera> read -t should just be implemented with select instead of messing with signals
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02:42:20 <izabera> and what should the docs mention? "warning: traps may be randomly dropped for reasons that you can't control"
02:43:44 <zzo38> No, it should mention how read is implemented.
02:45:18 <izabera> i think people complain enough about the lenght of that man page without going into implementation details
02:47:47 <zzo38> Note that read does return failure when it times out anyways
02:48:27 <izabera> the point isn't read, it's the trap that never runs
02:48:29 <HackEgo> file="bin/$1"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
02:49:59 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
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03:01:25 <hppavilion[1]> 666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
03:03:13 <izabera> The first 144 (122) digits of pi add up to 666 <- why is this noteworthy?
03:03:34 <hppavilion[1]> 33, of course, being the highest degree of freemason
03:04:27 <izabera> they were infinite last time i checked
03:04:58 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But still, it's rather funny. I'm sure I could freak someone out with it.
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03:25:18 <zzo38> Some people don't like 666
03:27:46 <zzo38> Are you sure 33 is the highest degree of Freemasonry? I thought there are only three degrees
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03:29:52 <zzo38> O, the Scottish Rite has 33 degrees.
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03:38:15 <zzo38> But I don't know any Freemasonry that would have 90 degrees.
03:39:00 <zzo38> (Someone claimed that the 90th degree of Freemasonry is when they are told that they worship the devil.)
03:39:12 <zzo38> (Of course, that is complete nonsense.)
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04:13:37 <HackEgo> It little profits that an idle king, / By this still hearth, among these barren crags, / Match'd with an aged wife, I mete and dole / Unequal laws unto a savage race, / That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. / I cannot rest from travel: I will drink / Life to the lees; all times I have enjoy'd / Greatly, have suffer'd greatly, both with
04:14:01 <HackEgo> It little profits that an idle king, / By this still hearth, among these barren crags, / Match'd with an aged wife, I mete and dole / Unequal laws unto a savage race, / That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. / I cannot rest from travel: I will drink / Life to the lees; all times I have enjoy'd / Greatly, have suffer'd greatly, both with
04:15:11 <HackEgo> s, councils, governments, / Myself not least, but honour'd of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy, / I am a part of all that I have met; / Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' / Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades / For ever and for ever when I move. \ Taneb invented it
04:16:54 <HackEgo> submarine jousting is unexplainable.
04:17:23 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/submarine jousting//s/./S/
04:17:28 <HackEgo> wisdom/submarine jousting//Submarine jousting is unexplainable.
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04:29:18 <HackEgo> And besicue and a saint and son the may bean the butcious and one them bear and may me for here the mance of my lord, and leave and thou arl of the prince and will not and and hour blood and the be buralont;
04:39:53 <shachaf> http://www.isi.edu/natural-language/people/poem/poem.php
04:40:08 <shachaf> Nepali Turkish Timorese / and foreign sourcing overseas .
04:40:25 <shachaf> McCann cartoons instead delay / and burdens customers today .
04:50:08 <shachaf> Detector member Silverstein / declares an exquisite cuisine .
04:52:56 <shachaf> The royals simply integrate / a Muslim Serbian dictate .
04:53:24 <shachaf> Hotels and countless alternates / recouped unless demand dictates .
04:53:43 <shachaf> Divorce asylum entertained / the jurors challenges remained .
04:53:59 <shachaf> The eastern roiling financier / professionals revives career .
04:54:38 <shachaf> What's a famous poem written in that meter?
04:56:21 <shachaf> Decaying formula today / and iceland slugging anyway .
04:57:21 <shachaf> Bizarre campaign concludes pursues / philanthropy the barbecues .
05:03:15 <shachaf> The princess witty magazine / routine describes a submarine .
05:03:37 <shachaf> The Oprah prevalent deposed / result repeatedly exposed .
05:03:42 <shachaf> Maybe this isn't the right channel.
05:05:29 <oerjan> zzo38: did you play with superglue
05:06:06 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't think that's the one, the structure is more complicted.
05:06:14 <zzo38> No, I make mistake. I should mean: I'm confused.
05:07:12 <oerjan> i'm not sure that fits
05:08:06 <shachaf> oerjan: You're quite good at naming things with a similar meter that I've forgotten about.
05:08:16 <shachaf> But I don't think it's either of those.
05:08:29 <oerjan> i don't really know that many poems
05:08:38 <shachaf> The thing I'm thinking of has rhyming couplets, I'm pretty sure.
05:11:40 <shachaf> I wonder whether it's in English...
05:13:12 <shachaf> But when I read a bunch of those passwords in a row it certainly reminds me of something.
05:17:58 <oerjan> time for some cheating
05:19:01 <oerjan> shachaf: the wikipedia page for iambic tetrameter has a hebrew example
05:20:17 <shachaf> Your guesses are the best I've heard.
05:20:28 <shachaf> Or maybe <https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%96%D7%A8_%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%A8_%D7%90%D7%96%22%D7%A8>...
05:21:11 <shachaf> I'll just assume it's Jabberwocky I'm thinking of, couplets or not.
05:22:44 <shachaf> How can you not know many poems, though? I thought you were a poet.
05:23:01 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:23:59 <oerjan> very premature xkcd today.
05:25:49 <oerjan> suddenly girl genius is claiming sunday/tuesday schedule?
05:26:15 <shachaf> Should I read Girl Genius?
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05:30:29 <shachaf> If oerjan, esteemed overlord, / Would read it of his own accord
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05:33:44 <oerjan> that guy does not look overly pleased, or friendly.
05:34:45 -!- variable has changed nick to trout.
05:35:16 <shachaf> Oops, I forgot that the emphasis isn't on the first syllable.
05:36:22 <shachaf> What? When I asked a Norwegian to pronounce it, it sounded more like it was on the second syllable.
05:36:24 <oerjan> it's definitely not _more_ on the second, anyway.
05:36:32 <shachaf> And then when I asked about that, he said it was on both syllables.
05:36:44 <oerjan> that's probably your brain overcompensating.
05:36:49 <HackEgo> Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something.
05:37:55 <shachaf> Our overlord mysterious, / Is rarely very serious.
05:38:06 <lambdabot> *** "imperious" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
05:38:06 <lambdabot> adj 1: having or showing arrogant superiority to and disdain of
05:38:06 <lambdabot> those one views as unworthy; "some economists are
05:38:06 <lambdabot> disdainful of their colleagues in other social
05:38:23 <lambdabot> disciplines"; "haughty aristocrats"; "his lordly manners
05:38:23 <lambdabot> were offensive"; "walked with a prideful swagger"; "very
05:38:23 <lambdabot> sniffy about breaches of etiquette"; "his mother eyed my
05:38:23 <lambdabot> clothes with a supercilious air"; "a more swaggering mood
05:38:23 <lambdabot> than usual"- W.L.Shirer [syn: {disdainful}, {haughty},
05:38:25 <lambdabot> {imperious}, {lordly}, {overbearing}, {prideful},
05:38:27 <lambdabot> {sniffy}, {supercilious}, {swaggering}]
05:40:19 <shachaf> Maybe Eugene Onegin is the most famous iambic tetrameter poem.
05:44:35 <shachaf> Locate our cackling overlord, / And get a thousand pound reward.
05:47:02 <shachaf> The word he wants is "amortized", / His wisdom entry advertised.
05:50:45 <shachaf> `le/rn lambek's lemma/Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses.
05:52:45 <shachaf> F-algebras are pretty neat.
05:53:29 <shachaf> I don't follow the Wikipedia page, though: "In mathematics, specifically in category theory, F-algebras generalize algebraic structure. Rewriting the algebraic laws in terms of morphisms eliminates all references to quantified elements from the axioms, and these algebraic laws may then be glued together in terms of a single functor F, the signature."
05:53:34 <shachaf> Don't F-algebras not have laws?
05:54:12 <oerjan> how fortunate that i have no idea.
05:54:37 <shachaf> I guess this isn't the right channel to ask.
05:54:53 <shachaf> Cale and copumpkin might know.
05:55:03 <shachaf> And I talked about it with elliott once.
05:55:21 <Cale> T-algebras for a monad T have laws.
05:55:31 <shachaf> But those are much more complicated than F-algebras.
05:55:50 <Cale> fsvo much, yeah
05:56:51 <shachaf> Well, somewhat more complicated.
05:59:15 <HackEgo> b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas
06:00:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/it//It little profits that an idle king, / By this still hearth, among these barren crags, / Match'd with an aged wife, I mete and dole / Unequal laws unto a savage race, / That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. / I cannot rest from travel: I will drink / Life to the lees; all times I have enjoy'd / Greatly, have suffer'd greatly,
06:05:47 -!- Kaynato has joined.
06:05:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil \ wisdom/hydrogen \ wisdom/math \ wisdom/utumno \ wisdom/wealhtheow \ wisdom/fat \ wisdom/ghoul \ wisdom/delve \ wisdom/if \ wisdom/speedy gonzales \ wisdom/o \ wisdom/rhenium \ wisdom/semmelweis \ wisdom/ᛁᚿ
06:06:55 <oerjan> `` tail -c340 wisdom/it
06:06:56 <HackEgo> ils, governments, / Myself not least, but honour'd of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy, / I am a part of all that I have met; / Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' / Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades / For ever and for ever when I move. \ Taneb invented it.
06:07:35 <oerjan> `` before | tail -c340
06:07:44 <HackEgo> s, governments, / Myself not least, but honour'd of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy, / I am a part of all that I have met; / Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' / Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades / For ever and for ever when I move. \ Taneb invented it.
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06:09:22 <HackEgo> Sp e e d y G o n z a l e s i s t h e f a s t e s t
06:10:41 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ *$//' wisdom/speedy\ gonzales
06:20:37 <shachaf> `hogue wisdom/speedy gonzales
06:20:43 <HackEgo> <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ *$//\' wisdom/speedy\\ gonzales \ <oerjan> le/rn speedy gonzales/Sp e e d y G o n z a l e s i s t h e f a s t
06:21:05 <shachaf> `1 hogue wisdom/speedy\ gonzales
06:21:18 <HackEgo> 1/2:<oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ *$//\' wisdom/speedy\\ gonzales \ <oerjan> le/rn speedy gonzales/Sp e e d y G o n z a l e s i s t h e f a s
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06:38:58 <shachaf> oerjan: placenta-based homology? / i owe you an apology
06:42:31 <oerjan> you think that such an awful curse / can be undone by writing verse?
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06:45:20 <shachaf> if verse alone will not suffice / then what would be your asking price?
06:49:10 <oerjan> your task, to introduce, must be / the word placenta in CT
06:50:51 <oerjan> or if you are for this too dense / you may instead put it in lens.
06:52:11 <oerjan> i know for sure it is the case / it won't look very out of place
06:55:58 <shachaf> well, birth as a formality / is just initiality
06:59:14 <shachaf> and so placentas could be shown / to be a universal cone
07:00:36 <shachaf> for algebras, as Lambek told / placenta would just be a fold
07:01:13 <shachaf> Wait, that's not Lambek's lemma.
07:09:07 <shachaf> a universal cone, i think, / is terminal (the missing link!)
07:10:25 <shachaf> and therefore (color me magenta) / it could be called a coplacenta
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07:14:09 <shachaf> "initial", as we've just unearthed, / tells us that an object birthed
07:14:39 <shachaf> all others, metaphorically, / which must mean, categorically,
07:21:54 <myname> i envy how you can rhyme like crazy \ to do this properly i'm way too lazy
07:22:00 <Taneb> oerjan, looks like you were right re: storm king
07:22:14 <Taneb> Oh, it looks like I missed the rhyming thing
07:22:29 <shachaf> myname: it's the meter that you're missing, not the rhyme hth
07:23:01 <shachaf> I need to finish my verse.
07:23:29 <myname> i am way better in thia in geman
07:26:27 <shachaf> that for an object to be final / (without a metaphor vaginal),
07:26:31 <shachaf> the arrow points the other way, / to death, destruction, and decay
07:27:53 <shachaf> but if that's so, then what's the story, / for a pointed category?
07:31:30 <shachaf> a zero object, says reflection, / would be the key to resurrection
07:32:05 <b_jonas> wtf you're writing English poems?
07:32:11 <b_jonas> what happened to this channel?
07:32:24 <shachaf> What language would you prefer?
07:32:55 <oerjan> Taneb: now i'm wondering if van rijn _really_ betrayed him, or if he's just confused.
07:33:21 <oerjan> that might depend on my euphrosynia theory the other day
07:35:37 <oerjan> shachaf: especially with that razor blade, i decided to toss it.
07:35:53 <oerjan> (does this mean shachaf has a full beard?)
07:36:25 <oerjan> pikhq: does shachaf have a full beard twh
07:36:50 <shachaf> Hmm, I think three people in this channel have seen me.
07:37:03 <shachaf> Four including me, I guess.
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07:50:35 <pikhq> oerjan: Not to my knowledge.
07:50:56 <pikhq> At least, when I saw him he did not, and I do not know if he is able to grow one.
07:51:33 <shachaf> are you doubting my beard skills
07:52:04 <pikhq> No, I am merely ignorant of them.
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07:58:03 <shachaf> Are your pooching plans determined yet?
08:15:47 <hppavilion[1]> Paradox of the Ravens is mildly damaging the structural integrity of my mind via small explosive devices, bro
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08:16:52 <shachaf> Doesn't seem very paradoxical.
08:16:57 <shachaf> Wait until you hear about Curry's paradox.
08:18:30 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
08:18:40 <shachaf> Turing-Gödel-Curry paradox
08:20:55 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well yeah, it isn't a paradox per se (afaik), but it's still rather weird
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08:34:29 <hppavilion[1]> http://i.imgur.com/3MTbXwX.gifv has to be photoshopped
08:43:13 <oerjan> that definitely needs some sound.
08:43:51 <oerjan> but i assume they're just showing off their dog training?
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09:29:11 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... are there any possible numbers that are so big that there is literally no way to properly express them?
09:29:24 <hppavilion[1]> Like, even Graham's Number can be expressed in finite space
09:32:53 <shachaf> Graham's number can be expressed in very small space.
09:32:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: my impression from the last discussions i saw on naming big numbers is that the problem is that eventually it becomes unprovable (in the gödel sense) whether your expression actually names a number.
09:33:43 <oerjan> as in, these expression tend to use more and more esoteric ordinals, that may or may not exist.
09:36:13 <oerjan> or, of course, unprovable how big it is.
09:36:53 <hppavilion[1]> Aren't the ordinals infinite? At least, the esoteric ones?
09:37:05 <oerjan> a transfinite ordinal defines a recursion scheme. if the ordinal doesn't actually exist, the recursion never bottoms out.
09:37:19 <shachaf> oerjan: sounds like an extraordinally proof hth
09:37:24 <oerjan> but if it does, you can use it to define huge finite numbers.
09:38:25 <oerjan> eliezer yudkowsky won a challenge to name the biggest computable integer by using a hypothetical ZFC extension
09:38:59 <oerjan> (the biggest he could find, which means it's also most likely to be inconsistent instead)
09:40:13 <oerjan> (computable, in the sense that they had to sketch a computer program that would calculate it)
09:41:21 <oerjan> although that was computable, so busy beaver numbers will be far larger than that again
09:41:42 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, if they didn't have a sketch of a computer program, it would be more of an imputable integer.
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10:22:29 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found
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10:33:00 <HackEgo> underwater jousting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:34:12 <b_jonas> `slashlearn underwater jousting/Underwater jousting is a sport played on the open sea in single-person kayaks, where people try to hit a beach ball with the paddles until they get sufficiently exhausted. Taneb invented it.
10:34:35 <HackEgo> Learned «underwater jousting»
10:34:37 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
10:34:56 <b_jonas> wait, didn't shachaf just learn something for this yesterday?
10:35:44 <b_jonas> oh, that was submarine jousting
10:35:49 <HackEgo> Submarine jousting is unexplainable.
10:35:55 <b_jonas> `unlearn underwater jousting
10:35:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unlearn: not found
10:36:01 <b_jonas> `rm wisdom/underwater jousting
10:36:12 <b_jonas> yeah, submarine jousting sounds funnier actually
10:36:17 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
10:37:40 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/the/necessity, the/
10:37:43 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
10:41:05 <HackEgo> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets and tiny elfs. Taneb invented it.
10:42:25 <hppavilion[1]> If Gambler's Fallacy was accurate to reality, could we use it to build an Infinity Improbability Drive?
10:42:32 <ybden> Oh, Taneb isn't the owner of muppetlabs/breadbox
10:42:45 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
10:42:50 <HackEgo> boilinventions? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:43:16 <HackEgo> oerjanventions? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:43:45 <b_jonas> woulnd't those be hppaventions?
10:43:56 <shachaf> `learn Necessity invented invention, because it had to. Taneb invented it.
10:44:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'necessity': Necessity invented invention, because it had to. Taneb invented it.
10:46:16 <myname> efghij is such a beautiful language
10:46:17 <shachaf> `le/rn necessity/If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
10:46:58 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe that wisdom entry would be better as "God".
10:47:09 <shachaf> Taneb: what would you rather invent, necessity or god hth
10:47:15 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Wed Jun 08 10:47:15
11:17:22 <\oren\> i am now inside a capsule hotel
11:17:55 <\oren\> that is to say, i am encapsulayed
11:27:28 <ybden> \oren\: is it nice in there?
11:29:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:32:41 <\oren\> ybden: it has aircon and very fast internet so yes
11:34:27 <\oren\> and it is a few minutes walk from akihabara
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11:35:46 <\oren\> i am in a capsule hotel
11:36:11 <\oren\> that is to say, i am *encapsulated*
11:37:51 <lambdabot> RJAA 081030Z 16008KT 9999 FEW013 BKN050 21/19 Q1014 NOSIG RMK 1CU013 7SC050 A2995
11:38:49 -!- Akaibu has joined.
11:38:55 <boily> \oren\: work? vacation? study? shady activities? how long are you staying?
11:39:26 <HackEgo> Akaibu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
11:40:29 <\oren\> is going to maid cafes and lounging a shady activity?
11:41:15 <boily> not really shady, more like bright pink.
11:41:54 <\oren\> then no no shady activities here
11:46:56 <shachaf> `le/rn bicyclic monoid/The bicyclic monoid is the free monoid generated by two wheels of a bicycle, quotiented by the restriction that the bicycle itself is equal to the identity.
11:49:06 <dnm> Why am I still awake?
11:49:48 <\oren\> its only around eight o clock!
11:50:46 <shachaf> dnm: I might ask myself the same question.
11:52:20 <lambdabot> Local time for dnm is Wed Jun 08 03:52:18 2016
11:52:22 <boily> @localtime shachaf
11:52:23 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Wed Jun 8 03:52:22 2016
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12:04:12 <b_jonas> ^ that's the local time for HackEgo
12:04:14 <HackEgo> 2016-06-08 11:03:38.508514000+00:00
12:13:24 <boily> fungot: do you have time?
12:13:25 <fungot> boily: do tell about actors:)! good ( fnord)
12:13:47 <boily> fungot: uuuh... Sean Connery?
12:13:47 <fungot> boily: i just like ' em. how do i load swindle in drscheme? it shows you visually what happens when you evaluate with c-x c-e in an emacs-lisp buffer will that do?
12:14:16 <boily> fungot: it won't do. it's emacs, and it's against my religion.
12:14:16 <fungot> boily: define ' arbitrary manipulation.' on to suggest that.
12:14:47 <boily> fungot: I do not suggest that. stop manipulating me, you filthy bot.
12:14:47 <fungot> boily: spoke finnish, too.)) yields the cartesian product.
12:15:03 <boily> fungot: speaking finnish yields cartesian products. I'll remember that.
12:20:14 <fungot> b_jonas: the sound ' pre-scheme' is dirty to your ears? the one you're running on an unix machine. fucking vocational cs degrees.
12:21:30 <boily> I don't fear the fungot. I have my mapole.
12:21:30 <fungot> boily: precise terminology is good too http://www.shiro.dreamhost.com/ scheme/ hedwig.png to
12:22:55 <b_jonas> `8-ball does fungot fear boily's mapole?
12:22:55 <fungot> b_jonas: we want a non-deterministic control structure. or they can both simply be special syntax...
12:23:05 <b_jonas> fungot, do you fear boily's mapole?
12:23:05 <fungot> b_jonas: widgets always are. and i'd qualify that by saying that it equals three, but i
12:23:58 <boily> since when does HackEgo have an 8 ball?
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12:39:27 <izabera> who's the official z-code expert in this chan?
12:40:29 <izabera> i'm reading the standard to implement a zmachine and i can't even find stuff like the word size
12:43:21 <int-e> 2 byte words, by default, given the age of this stuff. there are also some clues about it, e.g. when it discusses memory size (64k) and ranges of numbers (0..65535, sometimes -32768..32767)
12:43:39 <izabera> they didn't say that a number must fit in a word
12:43:58 <izabera> tho it'd be strange if it didn't
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12:54:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: shoot: not found
12:54:39 <Destructible> so, does anyone here know what the movie "the room" is like?
12:55:27 <Destructible> It is esoteric, not just a regular language with movie catchphrases
12:56:04 <Destructible> and it isn't a brainfuck derivative, like other hidden programs
12:59:51 <Destructible> commands are based on numeric values of commands
13:00:48 <Destructible> how the numeric values are calculated is that, firstly, anything that is not a the room quote is an error
13:02:05 <Destructible> the value of a line is the amount of Hs, minus exclamation marks at the end
13:03:08 <Destructible> which would be push the value of the next one, if i remember
13:03:22 <izabera> does writing an interpreter constitute copyright infringement?
13:04:12 <Destructible> when a name is said, any name can be substituted
13:04:41 <Destructible> so, this means that you could make something like
13:07:25 <Destructible> the reason why exclamation marks subtract is because some people may not be able to resist adding too many hs
13:08:20 <Destructible> I think that perhaps there should be a subset of languages called niks, which have numeric commands which are like beatnik
13:08:43 <Destructible> I think everyone can agree that would be for the best
13:09:06 <izabera> but now i haven't seen the movie and i know that johnny shoots mary at some point
13:09:49 <Destructible> It was demonstrating that new creations can be made
13:10:44 <Destructible> Someone else should probably make the interpreter, because I haven't really learned any language good enough at this point
13:11:14 <HackEgo> Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
13:11:30 <HackEgo> whatis: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config
13:11:52 <ybden> love (1) - 2D game development framework
13:12:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
13:12:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
13:12:28 <HackEgo> inDestructible? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:12:40 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
13:13:12 <HackEgo> We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
13:13:51 <Destructible> also I had an idea for an esolang that isn't just something done slightly different
13:14:07 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
13:15:42 <Destructible> so ybden, have you contributed to the wiki at all?
13:15:50 <ybden> I have not either.
13:15:58 <HackEgo> God's number is the maximum number of moves a Rubik's cube can require to solve. It is equal to 20. No, really. Look it up.
13:19:55 <ybden> {this is a bracetical}
13:31:54 <izabera> https://i.imgur.com/dpTXm8M.png
13:35:24 <ybden> izabera: where did you find that?
13:35:42 <izabera> friend of mine claimed it was written by a c programmer in his company
13:35:50 <ybden> firstly, that's a very specific version
13:36:04 <ybden> secondly, they obviously don't know how the preprocessor works
13:36:24 <ybden> izabera: I pity that programmer
13:36:58 <ybden> Eh, I suppose it's a faily innocent mistake
13:37:26 <ybden> hppavilion[1]: yes
13:37:52 <hppavilion[1]> I much prefer the fox-hen-grain puzzle when the grain will eat the fox if left unattended
13:38:21 * ybden . o O ( wolf = undefined behaviour )
13:39:18 <hppavilion[1]> Or what if the farmer is really a hitman hired to kill the hen and must make it look like an accident?
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13:44:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fumble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47167&oldid=47159 * 193.0.236.64 * (-54) Clean up for more wiki style
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14:49:08 <int-e> the puzzle doesn't really work if you can't leave two of the passengers alone unattended
14:49:19 <int-e> ... I prefer puzzles to be solvable
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16:51:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47168&oldid=44879 * 5.249.127.17 * (+9) /* Semantics of Jot */
17:04:13 <coppro> http://www.ioccc.org/2015/muth/hint.html
18:04:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Timwi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47169&oldid=45927 * Timwi * (+13) efghij
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18:16:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47170&oldid=47165 * Qwertyu63 * (+6)
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18:40:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47171&oldid=46132 * Rottytooth * (+7) moved ↄ to done
18:41:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47172&oldid=47097 * Rottytooth * (+25) implemented
18:46:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47173&oldid=47170 * Qwertyu63 * (+400)
18:48:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47174&oldid=47173 * Qwertyu63 * (+10)
19:03:07 <qrf> 14:31:54 <izabera> https://i.imgur.com/dpTXm8M.png
19:03:09 <qrf> That is glorious.
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19:47:40 <lambdabot> CYVR 081818Z 12006KT 090V160 20SM -SHRA FEW040 SCT055 BKN087 OVC100 16/09 A2979 RMK SC2SC2AC2AC2 PCPN VRY LGT SLP088 DENSITY ALT 300FT
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20:46:53 <izabera> is this the most efficient way to count the number of leading 1s in a byte? for (i=0; (byte = byte << 1) & 0x80; i++);
20:49:22 <izabera> err that doesn't work but i mean something like this works for (i=0; byte & 0x80; i++) byte <<= 1;
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20:53:06 <fizzie> Could be, for the specific case for a byte. Plausible alternatives would be __builtin_clz on ~byte, or the "obvious" binary-search approach.
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20:55:43 <fizzie> That is, something like i = 0; if ((byte & 0xf0) == 0xf0) i += 4, byte <<= 4; if ((byte & 0xc0) == 0xc0) i+= 2, byte <<= 2; if (byte & 0x80) i++;
20:59:06 <izabera> a lookup table would be faster?
21:00:51 <fizzie> izabera: Quite possibly. https://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html is a good place to check as well. And of course "most efficient" usually depends on all kinds of details.
21:01:17 <izabera> didn't find that problem exactly
21:02:20 <shachaf> fizzie: A bithack is a model of a weak 2-thack?
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21:09:12 <shachaf> fizzie: Your nick has three syllables, with emphasis on the first, right?
21:12:31 <b_jonas> I assumed it was two syllables, sounding like "fizzy" in English
21:13:22 <shachaf> Well, I assumed that the j in your name was pronounced as in English.
21:17:22 <zzo38> The operation ((x&y)==y) is a built-in operation in Z-machine.
21:17:23 <fizzie> shachaf: That's the one most Finnish people use and I think I'm more familiar with, but I accept the "fizzy" kind as a variant as well.
21:17:32 <b_jonas> shachaf: I've no idea how “jonas” is supposed to be pronounced really. I took that name after the main character Jonas in Lois Lowry's novel “The Giver”, but I never saw the author indicating how that's pronounced, and didn't try to find it out too hard.
21:18:07 <b_jonas> shachaf: I guess I could try to find videos of the film or the stage play based on the novel on youtube now, as that those now exist and were overseen by Lowry.
21:18:14 <b_jonas> I guess I should try that.
21:18:37 <b_jonas> If I really cared about how it's pronounced, I could also write to Mrs. Lowry, and she'd probably answer, but I never cared much.
21:18:45 <b_jonas> It wasn't even obvious to me how Lowry was pronounced.
21:18:47 <zzo38> How can you count the bits by the muxcomp operation efficiently?
21:19:09 <shachaf> fizzie: Well, how am I supposed to make a rhyme with your nick without a definitive pronunciation?
21:19:54 <b_jonas> fizzie: hmm, so how is it pronounced?
21:20:33 <b_jonas> Ok, let me check youtube for the film or other stuff
21:21:30 <b_jonas> I don't want to look at them
21:21:31 <fizzie> shachaf: You can consider what you said as the canonical form, assuming I parsed it correctly.
21:21:45 <b_jonas> the film would ruin my image of the book
21:21:54 <shachaf> OK, well, can you think of anything that rhymes with fizzie?
21:21:57 <fizzie> Unfortunately, Google TTS's Finnish voice gets it wrong, I'd've used that to verify.
21:21:58 <b_jonas> I'll try to find interview though
21:22:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok, but how do you parse what shachaf says, or how do you pronounce it? can you give a transcription to some pronunciation alphabet or something?
21:23:01 <b_jonas> shachaf: while we're there, how do you pronounce shachaf?
21:23:16 <shachaf> @google shachaf pronunciation
21:23:17 <lambdabot> Title: Shachaf pronunciation: How to pronounce Shachaf in Hebrew
21:23:27 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's from hebrew?
21:23:38 <shachaf> I can't verify without audio, but it's probably something like that.
21:24:14 <b_jonas> I'm listening to an interview with Lowry now
21:24:25 <b_jonas> so far he's said “the boy” and “this young boy”
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21:25:52 <b_jonas> this interview didn't help. I'll try another
21:28:45 <b_jonas> nah, in this one she's telling some amusing anecdotes but not talking about The Giver
21:30:50 <fizzie> b_jonas: I'm not good at phonetic alphabets. I think it'd be something close to /ˈfitsie̯/, which, in retrospect, might not be quite what shachaf said, since it has the /ie̯/ diphthong instead of a separate /e/ syllable.
21:31:24 <shachaf> fizzie: Wait, so how many syllables?
21:31:39 <fizzie> Maybe it's just two then? I haven't really given it much thought.
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21:32:08 <fizzie> It's not really such a conventional Finnish word.
21:32:11 <shachaf> Maybe you ought to record it.
21:32:12 <b_jonas> fizzie: so is it three full syllables, with both the i and the e taking up a separate one? and is it an open or a close e?
21:32:43 <b_jonas> fizzie: or is the i a semi-vowel (like in "yes" in English) so it's only two syllables?
21:33:01 <fizzie> b_jonas: AIUI, it's exactly the mid-e, neither open nor closed.
21:33:24 <b_jonas> and two or three syllables?
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21:34:12 <b_jonas> In this interview, she is talking about The Giver,
21:34:16 <shachaf> hello, this is fizzie, and i pronounce fizzix as fizzix
21:35:35 <b_jonas> and she does say it with a /dZ/
21:35:45 <b_jonas> interview is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGcdEX8QeF4
21:36:09 <fizzie> I can't tell. I mean, I think it's the /ie/ diphthong, which I guess would mean it has to be two. At least I can't tell the difference between the ie in, say, Lieksa and fizzie.
21:36:54 <b_jonas> I think she says /"dZV.n@s/ but I'm not sure about the first vowel. it's definitely short
21:37:00 <b_jonas> let me listen a few more times, and to different places
21:40:36 <b_jonas> ok, it definitely sounds like Mrs. Lowry pronounces Jonas as /"dZV.n@s/ in that interview
21:41:31 <fizzie> Okay, yes. The way "fizzie" ends is definitely more "tie" than "aie".
21:42:01 <b_jonas> that seems definitive enough for the book character, in English.
21:42:12 <fizzie> b_jonas: "tie" and "aie" are two Finnish words.
21:42:21 <b_jonas> you don't mean the English word "tie"
21:43:05 <fizzie> Unfortunately, Wiktionary lacks a pronunciation section on Finnish "tie". (It has one on "aie", so if that's the sort of thing shachaf meant, it's not that.)
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21:44:01 <fizzie> Dear me, Goole Translate's Finnish voice gets "aie" approximately as wrong as possible.
21:44:30 <b_jonas> I'm certain I can't easily find out how Tóth Tamás Boldizsár pronounces “Jonas” in the translation. A letter through the publisher has a small chance to reach him, but I'm not going to try that.
21:44:32 <mender> hello fine folks! is there anyone capable of renaming users on the wiki?
21:44:50 <fizzie> (It's so wrong I may even need to fix it.)
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21:45:39 <b_jonas> fizzie: does it pronounce it wrong even in a sentence?
21:46:01 <b_jonas> mender: ais523 probably can, and let me check the user list for who else has privilages
21:46:13 <b_jonas> fizzie: can you help mender?
21:46:23 <fizzie> Is renaming a standard MediaWiki feature?
21:46:34 <fizzie> (If it is, then probably.)
21:46:50 <mender> apparently it needs some extension... let me dig up that link
21:46:51 <b_jonas> fizzie: I don't really know
21:47:01 <mender> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Preferences#User_profile_2
21:47:07 <b_jonas> mender: do you really need a rename, rather than just simply creating a new user?
21:47:28 <mender> I guess I could create a new user and change the links in all my esolangs
21:47:39 <mender> (which aren't that many)
21:47:41 <b_jonas> mender: you can even redirect your userpage
21:47:50 <b_jonas> mender: it's probably simpler than renaming the user
21:47:56 <mender> oh neat, how do I do that?
21:48:18 <fizzie> "-- the wiki must also have the Renameuser extension installed --" we might not have that in place. So, yeah, what b_jonas suggests might be reasonable. Keeps the history and all that.
21:48:20 <b_jonas> mender: go to userpage, edit it to contain a single line saying #REDIRECT [[User:FooBar]]
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21:48:38 <b_jonas> mender: on the target page you might want to explain that you're a new name for that old name, so it doesn't confuse people
21:48:58 <mender> great thanks, I'll do that
21:49:08 <b_jonas> mender: and you might want to do some of the relevant edits with the old user, and some with the new, so it's clear you really control both of them, and it's not someone maliciously trying to hijack a user page
21:49:38 <b_jonas> mender: can you tell use the two usernames here too by the way?
21:49:38 <fizzie> Oh. We actually *do* have Renameuser installed and loaded.
21:50:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Martin Ender * New user account
21:50:54 <mender> Martin Büttner --> Martin Ender
21:51:51 <mender> fizzie: as you can see I just created the new account. want to do the rename and kill the new account or should I go ahead with the redirect and everything?
21:52:15 <b_jonas> Anyway, regardless of the pronunciation of the book character, you can still pronounce my nick differently
21:52:38 <b_jonas> (Also, I don't have actual proof that Lowry named Jonas from the biblical prophet.)
21:53:13 <fizzie> mender: I'm not even sure what in particular Renameuser does. If you're okay with doing it the mostly-manual way, that'd be fine with me.
21:55:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Martin Ender]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47175 * Martin Ender * (+1110) Created page with "I used to go by the name Martin Büttner. I have created the following esolangs: * [[Retina]], designed in 2015, a regex-based language, designed for use in code-Golf|golf..."
21:55:34 <b_jonas> I tried to listen to another interview, hoping it has better audio
21:55:37 <fizzie> b_jonas: Oh, and yes: "aie" is incredibly wrong even when used in a sentence. Looks like it falls back to the rule-based g2p system, which doesn't realize it's special, so it creates the phonemes "ai ie" (the ai- and ie-diphthongs) which sounds really stupid concatenated.
21:55:45 <b_jonas> this one is from a radio, so I assumed it was professionally done
21:56:16 <b_jonas> but aside from the introduction, the actual talk with Mrs. Lowry part is done through a telephone line, so not very high audio quality again
21:56:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Martin Büttner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47176&oldid=45124 * Martin Büttner * (-1047) Replaced content with "#REDIRECT User:Martin Ender"
21:57:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Martin Büttner]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47177&oldid=47176 * Martin Büttner * (+1) Redirected page to [[User:Martin Ender]]
21:57:57 <b_jonas> mender: you should redirect your user talk page (discussion page) too
21:58:42 <HackEgo> mender: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:59:01 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
21:59:03 <lambdabot> CYUL 082000Z 28013G22KT 15SM OVC042 14/05 A2956 RMK SC8 SLP011 DENSITY ALT 300FT \ ENVA 082050Z 31014KT 9999 SCT025 SCT038 07/03 Q1024 RMK WIND 670FT 32019KT \ ESSB 082050Z AUTO 28004KT 9999 NCD 11/M02 Q1013 \ KOAK 082053Z 26015KT 10SM FEW035 BKN180 21/11 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP145 T02060111 58005
21:59:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Martin Büttner]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47178 * Martin Büttner * (+36) Redirected page to [[User talk:Martin Ender]]
22:00:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Martin Ender]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47179 * Martin Büttner * (+0) Created blank page
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22:06:01 <b_jonas> In this other interview, Mrs. Lowry says that the names of the characters just “came to her”, and that sometimes she changes them later when writing the book but she didn't change the ones in The Giver. That probably means she didn't deliberately name Jonas from the biblical prophet.
22:06:26 <b_jonas> Meh, no matter, it's still a good enough connection for me.
22:07:15 <b_jonas> shachaf: usually called Ionah or something there
22:07:20 <fizzie> Heh. I don't know how, but the thing has selected to use a "aa-ee" unit (from the boundary of a compound word where the first part ends in /a:/ and the second part starts with /e:/) to realize the "ai-ie" it wanted to synthesize. Probably because it couldn't find "ai-ie" anywhere, since it makes no sense. So it just pronounces "aie" as something like /aʔe/.
22:07:55 <qrf> Oh my, IPA?
22:08:02 <qrf> I'm an IPA nerd
22:08:03 <shachaf> I didn't realize people called him Jonas.
22:08:05 <b_jonas> apparently Jonah, not Ionah
22:08:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: they do, but I think that's a latinism
22:08:32 <qrf> I used to be a regular in here, years ago
22:08:46 <fizzie> shachaf: "Joona" in the Finnish translation.
22:08:51 <b_jonas> as in, he's called Jonas in latin
22:08:53 <HackEgo> qrf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:08:59 <qrf> That was slow
22:09:16 <qrf> Let me guess, it's because HackEgo was written in a painfully inefficient esoteric language
22:09:29 <fizzie> No, it's because HackEgo's running on a ridiculous VPS provider.
22:09:36 <qrf> :\ I use OVH
22:10:05 <b_jonas> anyway, he's the prophet who's been swallowed by a mythical sea monster (whale or leviathan) and God sent him to be a prophet in the city of Niniveh
22:10:14 <b_jonas> (just to make clear which prophet it is)
22:10:42 <fizzie> Well, the sandboxing it uses (essentially, boot a new UML kernel for every command) isn't *terribly* efficient, but formely it wasn't really all that painful; lately it's been slower than it used to be.
22:11:23 <qrf> That prophet is also featured in the Qur'an, which I'm currently reading
22:11:45 <qrf> A kernel written in the Unified Modelling Language, most impressive
22:12:29 <fizzie> fungot it's the one of our bots that's written in a painfully inefficient esoteric language, and it's pretty fast.
22:12:29 <fungot> fizzie: i thought it was labyrinth, but i
22:12:36 <b_jonas> qrf: but I know very little about the Quran, so when I think of the prophet and how he's related to The Giver, I was definitely always thinking of the biblical version
22:14:36 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok wait, have we got this yet? is your pronunciation of "fizzie" two syllables or three syllables?
22:15:35 <fizzie> b_jonas: I think I've settled on two.
22:17:21 <b_jonas> fizzie: then I'll pretend it's /ˈfits.jɛ/ with /ts/ a single vowel (imagine a tie accent above or below the two or something)
22:18:00 <fizzie> No, the consonant boundary is definitely right after the /'fi/.
22:18:05 <qrf> The official pronunciation of my nick is [ˈqɑɾɑf]
22:18:11 <b_jonas> fizzie: do you mean the syllable boundary?
22:18:22 <fizzie> Essentially, take the first syllable from fi:fiikus but shorten the vowel from /i:/ to /i/, then take the single syllable from fi:tie but convert the initial consonant from /t/ to /ts/.
22:18:58 <fizzie> (Translate gets those two words right.)
22:19:19 <b_jonas> fizzie: hmm, but I can't pronounce /ˈfi.tsjɛ/; maybe the /jɛ/ part is wrong
22:19:58 <fizzie> As I understand, it should be /ie̯/.
22:20:06 <b_jonas> fizzie: isn't that the same?
22:20:18 <b_jonas> same as far as my mouth goes
22:20:31 <b_jonas> a short /i/ or semi-vowel /i/
22:20:39 <fizzie> I should probably just record it.
22:20:57 <b_jonas> nah, I can totally accept that you can pronounce /ˈfi.tsjɛ/
22:21:09 <b_jonas> even if I can't pronounce it because I'm not used to that sort of thing
22:21:17 <b_jonas> I can just pronounce it as /ˈfits.jɛ/ and it's short enough
22:21:28 <fizzie> Hmm. Well, if you listen to the left side of https://translate.google.com/#fi/en/tsie that's pretty much the tail end.
22:21:58 <b_jonas> or I can try to pronounce /ˈfi.tsjɛ/ even if I'm not used to it
22:22:03 <fizzie> Oh, that's simple -- actually, https://translate.google.com/#fi/en/fitsie is pretty close.
22:22:11 <fizzie> (But if you write it as "fizzie" it goes all wrong.)
22:22:24 <b_jonas> fizzie: is the "zz" part a finnish spelling?
22:23:29 <fizzie> Not really. 'z' appears rarely in some loanwords and generally maps to a /ts/.
22:23:43 <fizzie> I don't think 'zz' really exists.
22:24:04 <b_jonas> fizzie: ah, that would explain why google's text to speech doesn't pronounce it properly
22:25:21 <fizzie> Right. It generates the two syllables "f i1" and "t s ii0".
22:25:24 <b_jonas> ok, let me see this one you pasted
22:25:30 <int-e> uh is GG heading towards another boss fight?
22:26:11 <fizzie> For "fitsie" it generates again two syllables, but this time "f i1" + "t s ie0", which is probably right.
22:26:12 <int-e> Granted, it's been a while... I think that automatic train was the last serious one.
22:27:58 <b_jonas> anyway, I'll probably continue to pronounce jonas with a /j/, but a /dZ/ is fine too of course
22:28:16 <b_jonas> unless I'm specifically talking about the book character and in English of course, in which case I should try to stick to /dZ/
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22:30:43 <b_jonas> Given that the biblical prophet is pronounced with a /j/, I think that's a good enough excuse that you can use either
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22:32:35 <qrf> X-SAMPA <23
22:33:34 <b_jonas> qrf: I prefer IPA-like notation, but I'm lazy to type it
22:33:52 <b_jonas> I should make a two-way transliterator as an input method or something
22:34:48 <qrf> I wrote this shitty bot for #linguistics, it converts X-SAMPA to IPA
22:34:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Cats]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47180 * Martin Ender * (+8990) Created page with "'''Stack Cats''' (abbreviated as '''SKS''') is a stack-based, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing reversible] programming language developed by user:Martin E..."
22:35:16 <b_jonas> qrf: nice... hmm, which one is #linguistics, is it the one that always talks about politics, or is that ##linguistics ?
22:35:47 <qrf> #linguistics is the one about TV, gay sex, drugs
22:36:04 <b_jonas> qrf: nah, that's not very specific, lots of channels are about that
22:36:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Martin Ender]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47181&oldid=47175 * Martin Ender * (+115) add Stack Cats
22:36:51 <qrf> That is true
22:37:13 <b_jonas> it seems #linguistics is the one I was thinking about, but I know ##linguistics exists as well
22:38:04 <qrf> ##linguistics kicks people for off-topic talk
22:38:48 <b_jonas> maybe I should try that one if I have a linguistics question
22:39:19 <qrf> Not necessarily
22:39:22 <qrf> It's also notoriously inactive
22:39:35 <b_jonas> well, it can be worth a try, but ok
22:40:49 <b_jonas> mostly I should just try outside of irc
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23:38:12 <hppavilion[1]> And the update didn't add very much new content in comparison to many previous updates
23:39:52 <myname> i blame notch for building and selling
23:41:12 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I blame the boundary conditions of the universe for being in the particular configuration they were
23:41:38 <myname> it also made the clearly superior dwarf fortress possible
23:42:36 <hppavilion[1]> Unfortunately, my eyes do not accept Dwarf Fortress as valid input
23:48:45 <myname> hppavilion[1]: you may want to use a tileset
23:49:16 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I probably should have thought of that by now.
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00:03:19 <hppavilion[1]> Someone made a door in Minecraft that takes 13 hours to open or close
00:03:38 -!- clog has joined.
00:06:10 <shachaf> do you want the last hour of logs
00:06:13 <oerjan> oh well, it was probably crap anyway hth
00:06:27 <shachaf> shall i copy and paste them to you
00:08:37 <shachaf> oerjan is addicted to logreading
00:09:29 <oerjan> I CAN QUIT ANY TIME I WANT
00:09:40 <oerjan> it's the wanting part that's hard
00:09:53 <shachaf> you only say that because you know that even if you quit, logs will be available
00:10:18 <int-e> oerjan: so how often have you quit reading the logs so far?
00:10:39 <oerjan> int-e: i dunno, but sometimes they're just too damn long
00:11:26 <hppavilion[1]> 1) Admit that the logs- a series of 1s and 0s on a server somewhere in Canada- are more powerful than you, a sentient human being capable of will and volition. Somehow.
00:11:30 <Koen_> couldn't you make a bot read them for you?
00:11:46 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i'm not sure tunes is in canada, or not.
00:11:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It probably is; most servers seem to be in my experience
00:11:59 <Koen_> and make a list of topics that were addressed
00:12:19 <oerjan> Koen_: one that strips MtG discussion would be nice.
00:12:41 <hppavilion[1]> 2) Believe that the great fungot can make you not addicted to logreading; of course, you can't do it yourself
00:12:41 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: guess so. but i really should have submitted the picture under some fake name. you may have mentioned my dislike for anything combining the words " fnord"
00:12:42 <Koen_> just censor out zzo and oren
00:12:57 <oerjan> Koen_: i think you're misspelling b_jonas somewhere
00:13:07 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: but your microexpressions aren't linearized, so you
00:13:23 <Koen_> yeah, typical of you
00:13:47 <hppavilion[1]> 3) Make the decision to follow the word of fungot, not do what you yourself want and take your own path etc.
00:13:47 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: paganini looks tasty when they're made of some fnord messages. :p
00:14:08 <hppavilion[1]> 4) Make a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself (whatever the hell that means)
00:15:21 <hppavilion[1]> 5) Admit to fungot, yourself, and another human being or sentient bot the nature of your wrongs. Don't be vague; be explicit, give all the gritty details. Name the exact position and velocity of every fundamental particle that could have interacted with you (given the speed-of-light delay) over the course of your addiction
00:15:21 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: you mean regular expressions? i'm confused... how did that happen?
00:15:38 <oerjan> shachaf: as i said, crap, but thanks anyway
00:15:53 <hppavilion[1]> 6) Be entirely ready for fungot to hack into your brain (probably via Inception) and change your fundamental psyche so that you're better. Not creepy at all
00:15:58 <shachaf> oerjan: I didn't even read them.
00:16:04 * oerjan grins mani^Wadjectivally
00:16:34 <hppavilion[1]> 8) Make a list of every person you harmed via logreading, and become willing to make amends to them all (here's the list: [])
00:17:14 <HackEgo> Your mysterious adjectival cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
00:17:17 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/oerjan//s/adjectival/renouned/
00:17:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
00:17:30 <hppavilion[1]> 9) for person in people_we_hurt: if not dangerous: you.make_amends(person)
00:17:57 <hppavilion[1]> 10) Continue to take personal inventory (seriously, what does that even mean?) and admit it when you were wrong
00:18:21 <shachaf> I think you're spamming the channel a bit here.
00:18:29 <shachaf> So much that my brilliant puns are being missed.
00:18:46 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i suddenly have a hunch you might also read aaronson's blog
00:18:55 <hppavilion[1]> 11) Mention fungot at least once a day, to improve your conscious contact with fnim, and to bring us closer to The Great Fnordian Empire
00:18:56 <quintopia> helloerjan. how goes the megalomania?
00:19:52 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I appear to have read his blog before, but not consistently
00:20:55 <shachaf> There was silence supreme! Not a shriek, not a scream, / Scarcely even a howl or a groan, / As the man they called "Ho!" told his story of woe / In an antediluvian tone.
00:21:15 <shachaf> Scarcely even a swat or a pan
00:21:35 <shachaf> http://literature.org/authors/carroll-lewis/the-hunting-of-the-snark/chapter-03.html
00:21:42 <shachaf> "antediluvian" is in the original.
00:21:49 <oerjan> <shachaf> So much that my brilliant puns are being missed. <-- have no fair -----###
00:22:29 <oerjan> . o O ( does cackling count as reverbing? )
00:23:30 <int-e> are we reverb-berating?
00:24:47 <oerjan> <quintopia> helloerjan. how goes the megalomania? <-- humongously great hth
00:26:02 <quintopia> the oatmeal has a lot of great dumb joke
00:26:20 <quintopia> such as: A cannibal went for a walk and passed his brother.
00:26:43 <quintopia> or: What does a cannibal do after dumping his girlfriend? Wipe.
00:27:09 <lambdabot> *** "cannibal" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
00:27:09 <lambdabot> CANNIBAL, n. A gastronome of the old school who preserves the simple
00:27:09 <lambdabot> tastes and adheres to the natural diet of the pre-pork period.
00:28:18 <oerjan> <quintopia> that one deserves a high five <-- which one, there's a whole diluvian channel of puns here
00:28:23 <quintopia> i suppose no one can compete with Bierce
00:29:15 <quintopia> and now my other canadian friend is retweeting terrible puns
00:30:01 <quintopia> what's the difference between magicians and behaviorists?
00:30:36 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, *someone* didn't like being called antidiluvian for some reason.
00:31:35 <quintopia> he's not against floods. he's against pickled art museums
00:32:37 <int-e> oh that magician thing is terrible, perfect for this channel
00:32:38 <oerjan> i'm not quite sure, but are you claiming i'm anti-le-louvrian
00:33:36 <quintopia> int-e: are you calling us a bunch of rats?
00:34:11 * oerjan still waiting for at least one punchline
00:34:15 <int-e> no, I'm just calling the general level of puns here terrible...
00:34:52 <int-e> "A behaviorist is someone who pulls habits out of rats."
00:35:00 <quintopia> well, if no one's groaning, no one's punning
00:35:45 * oerjan tries to lift the anvil to drop on int-e, but his back gives in
00:36:08 * oerjan slumps down in the lawn chair
00:36:10 <int-e> it wasn't even my own pun, google found it for me
00:36:36 * int-e blames quintopia for bringing it up.
00:36:37 <quintopia> The latest Pew survey reports that the U.S. would prefer way more laser gun sound effects.
00:39:04 <quintopia> what? i know you already broke your back, and i'm standing way over here
00:39:57 <lambdabot> *** "telephone" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
00:39:57 <lambdabot> TELEPHONE, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the
00:39:57 <lambdabot> advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance.
00:40:44 * oerjan ponders putting rocket boosters on the lawn chair. later.
00:41:31 <int-e> oerjan: I would get off the chair first... these things tend to be big and heavy... you're liable to getting crushed.
00:42:58 <oerjan> int-e: i mean "on" in the generic sense hth
00:43:20 <quintopia> oerjan: you're liable to be crushed no matter how you install them hth
00:43:35 <oerjan> true, but not _before_ activating them
00:44:11 <oerjan> no balloons, i can already see the drawbacks of that.
00:44:40 <quintopia> too bad. a chair tied to 99 red balloons has a built-in theme song
00:45:18 <oerjan> i'd like not to start that until after i built the bomb shelter.
00:45:48 <quintopia> as it happens, it would take 850 regular helium party balloons to lift a cat
00:47:29 <quintopia> about 106,000 3ft diameter helium balloons to lift an Up-sized house
00:50:24 <int-e> I was hoping to find a what if on the topic... but apparently not...
00:50:37 <oerjan> i thought there was already one
00:50:42 <oerjan> (not cats, but balloons)
00:50:53 <int-e> at least there's http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/walters.asp
00:51:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: don't try to extract meaning from the devil's actions, that only traps you further hth
00:51:41 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], not everything was invented by me
00:51:52 <quintopia> any time there is any suggestion of deviltry or witchery, taneb is surely involved
00:51:57 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:52:22 <quintopia> that is a self-contradictory wisdom
00:52:45 <oerjan> quintopia: are you implying everything involves sex tdnh
00:52:53 <quintopia> "Tanebventions include...the universe...He never invents anything involving sex."
00:52:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we already established it's not hth
00:53:04 <quintopia> oerjan: at the very least the universe involves sex
00:53:15 <Taneb> quintopia, sex was an emergent property of the universe
00:53:58 <HackEgo> If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
00:54:21 <quintopia> Taneb: did you just call sex magical
00:54:33 * hppavilion[1] refrains from pointing out that Taneb also invented the BBC
00:54:49 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: very little sexy about the BBC
00:55:11 <Taneb> quintopia, no, emergent
00:55:18 <Taneb> Like, I don't think Langton invented highways
00:55:24 <quintopia> too late. rule 34 is has already emergent propertied it
00:55:55 <hppavilion[1]> I think that "taneb never invents anything involving sex" is contradictory with rule 34
00:56:18 <quintopia> the internet invents the sex parts
00:56:28 <shachaf> I think you ought to respect Taneb's wishes vis-à-vis inventions.
00:56:30 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
00:56:39 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:57:00 <shachaf> Taneb: Is it cube root of (eight genders), or (cube root of eight) genders?
00:57:03 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, does "taneb never invent anything involving sex" only apply to the colloquial, coital meaning of sex? Or does it also cover gender?
00:57:32 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: have you considered that necessity is the mother of invention
00:57:39 <tswett> Hey, here's a Discord channel invite. https://discord.gg/013N9FTwO1RhOJgxs
00:57:47 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: So (P1) bans Taneb inventing e.g. a wage gap?
00:58:09 <tswett> For anyone who might happen to want to join for whatever reason.
00:58:12 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], gender and sex refer to distinct concepts hth
00:58:25 <quintopia> wage gap is definitely not a thing on the list. though apparently magical wage gaps coming emergently from tanebventions is plausible
00:58:42 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Because I don't feel like we constantly need to take that into account in everyday conversation
00:58:57 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/.$/, although rule 34 keeps sabotaging him./
00:59:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex, although rule 34 keeps sa
00:59:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Perhaps we just need to move it to a wikipage
01:00:08 <int-e> the road to hell is paved with good inventions? ... there should be room for a second pun to offset the first...
01:00:45 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:00:51 <shachaf> Taneb: OK, Taneb, time to uninvent some things.
01:01:28 <shachaf> Taneb: In the Lem tradition, please start with things that start with the letter N.
01:01:54 <Phantom_Hoover> there's room for more tanebventions, just not for dumb comments that aren't tanebventions
01:02:02 <quintopia> what about Lem? you mean the author of "Solaris", right?
01:02:17 <int-e> law of excluded middle seems more likely
01:02:40 <shachaf> http://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad/146-how-the-world-was-saved
01:04:23 <shachaf> Taneb: please read the above story hth
01:04:57 <HackEgo> Stanisław Lem was a Polish logician who discovered the law of excluded middle.
01:06:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Cats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47182&oldid=47180 * Timwi * (+147) /* External Resources */ Esoteric IDE
01:10:31 <int-e> unsurprisingly the sodium joke did not translate well into german...
01:22:34 <hppavilion[1]> In theory, 93% of sentences starting with "You know what they say" should end there
01:24:18 <quintopia> what is the german word for sodium
01:27:35 <shachaf> Did you read that story in German originally?
01:28:09 <int-e> I don't think I had read it... I found it online just now.
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01:30:29 <quintopia> did they change sodium to some other substance?
01:30:53 <oerjan> . o O ( didn't lem write in polish, anyway )
01:32:57 <oerjan> "The Polish version was first published in 1965, with an English translation appearing in 1974."
01:35:41 <oerjan> some guy has added the story titles to wikipedia - but only in polish
01:38:22 <oerjan> huh sodium is actually sód in polish
01:38:43 * oerjan didn't know any languages other than english did that
01:41:49 <HackEgo> Typoglycerine is an explosive that scrambles the letters inside a word.
01:42:25 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:42:56 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
01:42:58 <HackEgo> Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple.
01:43:15 <shachaf> Taneb: You know, I always figured weetoflakes were a sort of fish food.
01:43:28 <oerjan> looks that there are many languages both with natr- and sod-
01:43:29 <Taneb> shachaf, they're just a mix of two breakfast cereals
01:43:41 <HackEgo> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan.
01:43:42 <Taneb> Weetos and Cornflakes
01:44:11 <shachaf> Presumably cornflakes are just flakes of maize.
01:44:13 <Taneb> I'm not sure if they're sold outside the UK?
01:44:19 <shachaf> Where does the purple come from?
01:44:47 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
01:45:03 <shachaf> Taneb: Did you actually invent gazpacho?
01:45:09 <shachaf> It doesn't seem like your style.
01:45:17 <oerjan> we do have weetos in norway
01:45:20 <shachaf> Then why is it listed in tanebventions?
01:45:27 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/gazpacho, //
01:45:33 <Taneb> oerjan, do you have cornflakes?
01:45:35 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:45:45 <Taneb> oerjan, have you tried weetoflakes?
01:45:49 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
01:45:59 <oerjan> i don't usually eat breakfast cereal
01:46:43 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it.
01:47:05 <Taneb> I haven't had weetos, and by extension weetoflakes, for years :(
01:48:28 <oerjan> `le/rn klein bottle//A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
01:48:31 <shachaf> `? automatic squirrel feeder
01:48:40 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them.
01:48:54 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia.
01:49:14 <int-e> inside : outside :: insidious : outsidious?
01:49:33 <shachaf> oerjan: foiled by the slashes hth
01:49:33 <HackEgo> /A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
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01:50:13 <oerjan> `le/rn klein bottle/A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
01:50:33 <shachaf> could've just `sedlast s'.''
01:51:13 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan++ # insidious <-- argh. i _told_ you i sometimes pun without noticing, but you had to remove it...
01:52:37 <int-e> . o O ( despite their name, Klein bottles come in all sizes )
01:52:50 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
01:53:21 <oerjan> int-e: used to be adjectival
01:53:57 <hppavilion[1]> renoun: To turn a concept that was once a /thing/, but then ceased to be (perhaps becoming a verb or adjective) back into a noun
01:53:59 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:55:10 <hppavilion[1]> What is #esoteric's traditional river-crossing puzzle?
01:55:39 <quintopia> are confusion and amusement moods? if not moods then what?
01:56:10 <Taneb> quintopia, emotions, maybe?
01:56:13 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: there isn't one hth
01:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I suppose confusion is a state-of-thought, and amusement is a mood? Or a state of mood?
01:56:26 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I disagree
01:56:29 <oerjan> `` rgrep -i river wisdom
01:56:41 <quintopia> Taneb: can you invent a word that encompasses both please
01:57:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I'm pretty sure that for all non-empty categories C, there is an element e of C that is #esoteric's official member of C
01:57:24 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i'm pretty sure you're making that up.
01:57:41 <oerjan> `` rgrep -i river wisdom; echo oops
01:57:43 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], what's composition in the category of river crossing puzzles?
01:57:50 <HackEgo> wisdom/rea:The Rea is the river flowing through Birmingham. It is jealous of the other rivers having four letters. \ wisdom/sauron:Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of the Kings of Men and the conquest of
01:58:17 <oerjan> `` rgrep -l -i river wisdom
01:58:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/rea \ wisdom/sauron
01:58:24 <Taneb> If there's no composition, it's not a category, hence no offical #esoteric river crossing puzzle
01:58:43 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I suppose I don't even know what the morphisms are
01:59:35 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I'm not sure you're using the right terminology
01:59:41 <hppavilion[1]> And, of course, the composition of two moves m, n is just making the move m then the move n
02:00:27 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, that pun was without noticing?
02:00:31 <int-e> Has hppavilion[1] discovered Cayley graphs?
02:00:38 <int-e> shachaf: inisidious?
02:01:00 <shachaf> `1 hogue wisdom/oerjan | grep pun
02:01:34 <HackEgo> 1/1:<oerjan> learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it. \
02:02:50 <hppavilion[1]> OK, if a river-crossing problem is a category, then each node is a state- basically, a tuple (s, d, p) where s and d are sets of cargo (s is at the source, d is at the destination) and p is basically SRC | DEST and represents where the boat is
02:03:24 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
02:03:41 <hppavilion[1]> A (homo)morphism is a valid way to move- basically, changing p and possibly moving some subset of s to d or d to s
02:04:02 <hppavilion[1]> You can only, of course, remove items from the set associated with the bank the boat is currently on for the current move
02:04:04 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: Anyway, right now you're putting the nonsense into "abstract nonsense".
02:04:52 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Sure, it'd probably be better to use game theory or something, but this way things are all categorical and happy
02:04:55 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: not nearly enough. also, what's with the capital letters?
02:05:38 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: But it fits some of the basics of category theory; I'm going to check the rest of the rules now
02:06:18 <shachaf> oerjan: OK, I don't remember why I removed it from wisdom/oerjan, but you can put it back if you want.
02:07:34 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: But anyway, there, I think I got it to work.
02:09:24 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: so, lots and lots of things are categories.
02:09:28 <int-e> I still think that this is a huge categorical mistake
02:09:35 <tswett> If you have a collection of "ways of going from one thing to another", it's probably a category.
02:10:38 <quintopia> int-e: if that's a pun, I must insist you desist. It's a categorical imperative. You kant make puns about categories.
02:11:04 <oerjan> quintopia: indeed, they're simply not natural.
02:11:47 <oerjan> and we have to push back against this travesty.
02:12:12 <oerjan> there just has to be a limit.
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02:12:43 <int-e> quintopia: I can see that you believe in swift and severe punishment.
02:13:53 <int-e> don't category theorists push out instead, when they're not pulling back?
02:15:49 <oerjan> sorry for botchering this epic pun thread
02:16:12 <oerjan> . o O ( wait that's not a word either )
02:16:16 <int-e> is this where you raise the steaks?
02:16:57 <int-e> it may not be a word, but it's mixing botching and butchery in a novel way...
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02:17:28 <oerjan> `learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:17:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'oerjan': Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:18:05 <oerjan> bad karma has to be released.
02:18:10 <HackEgo> An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember.
02:18:11 <shachaf> what happened to "too late"
02:18:45 <shachaf> `1 hogue wisdom/oerjan | grep chaf
02:19:00 <HackEgo> 1/4:<shachaf> sled wisdom/oerjan//s/adjectival/renouned/ \ <shachaf> sled wisdom/oerjan//s-retired --;s(rd(rd emeritus( \ <shachaf> ` sed -i s/sneaky/kind/ wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i s/kind/sneaky/ wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/evil/kind/\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i s/ante/anti/ wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> `
02:19:10 <HackEgo> 2/4:sed -i \'s/l\\./l with a passion./\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/$/./\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/\\. He s.*//\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/famous/infamous/\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/hates/mildly dislikes/\' wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/famous/& mysterious/\' wisdom/oe
02:21:11 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/oerjan | sort | uniq -c
02:21:26 <HackEgo> 1 oerjan shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf oerjan oerjan int-e shachaf shachaf shachaf oerjan shachaf oerjan shachaf oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull shachaf shachaf ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerja
02:21:42 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/oerjan | xargs -1 | sort | uniq -c
02:21:50 <HackEgo> xargs: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: xargs [-0prtx] [--interactive] [--null] [-d|--delimiter=delim] \ [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]] \ [-L max-lines] [-l[max-lines]] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] \ [-I replace-str] [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] \ [-n max-args] [--max-args=max-args] \ [-s
02:22:04 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/oerjan | xargs -n 1 | sort | uniq -c
02:22:14 <HackEgo> 2 ais523 \ 1 Bike \ 2 elliott \ 4 FreeFull \ 1 int-e \ 1 nitia \ 15 oerjan \ 19 shachaf
02:22:52 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/oerjan | xargs -n 1 | sort | uniq -c | sort -n -r
02:23:02 <HackEgo> 19 shachaf \ 15 oerjan \ 4 FreeFull \ 2 elliott \ 2 ais523 \ 1 nitia \ 1 int-e \ 1 Bike
02:23:09 <oerjan> . o O ( there's probably a faster method )
02:25:15 <int-e> `le/rn derangement/"Green tandem" is a derangement of "derangement".
02:26:11 <int-e> `` culprits wisdom/oerjan | xargs -n 1 | uniq | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
02:26:33 <HackEgo> 10 oerjan \ 9 shachaf \ 4 FreeFull \ 2 elliott \ 1 nitia \ 1 int-e \ 1 Bike \ 1 ais523
02:28:43 <HackEgo> If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
02:30:48 <int-e> (redundancy is characterized by an absence of necessity)
02:47:51 <shachaf> int-e: Funny that you culprits | xargs -n 1, when culprits itself does the opposite.
02:56:59 <oerjan> <coppro> http://www.ioccc.org/2015/muth/hint.html <-- bah, it requires giving a maximal number of steps in advance.
02:58:09 <oerjan> shachaf: still shorter than using hg log directly, no?
02:58:18 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -- "$1" | grep summary: | sed "s/ +/ /g" | sed "s/^ //" | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}'| sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
02:58:32 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
02:58:34 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
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03:00:30 <shachaf> Better to name it after an art critic than a pistol, isn't it?
03:00:40 <oerjan> i don't know. if we add sp* to commands that rarely need it, commands might clobber each other's output
03:02:12 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
03:03:26 <HackEgo> bin/udcli \ bin/5 \ bin/1 \ bin/macro \ bin/jq \ bin/units
03:13:26 <tswett> Look at this Japanese emoticon:
03:13:54 <lambdabot> dforsyth says: "c++ can eat a dick imo"
03:14:09 <shachaf> @forget dforsyth "c++ can eat a dick imo"
03:14:11 <lambdabot> workbean says: I think getting your dick suck must probably feel like a great achievement
03:14:20 <shachaf> What's with all these quotes?
03:14:38 <shachaf> Is this the product of some sort of vandalism?
03:14:44 <lambdabot> workbean says: I think getting your dick suck must probably feel like a great achievement
03:15:12 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: [about classes having the same name as constructs in other languages] t's like having a laxative called "after dinner mint", and people being upset when they were looking for something nice to eat after dinner.
03:15:15 <lambdabot> SamB_XP says: I once saw it eat a comment (:[{- Help! -}])
03:18:12 <tswett> Doink, I finally figured out why that one quote matched.
03:18:18 <tswett> "great achievement" contains the substring "eat a".
03:19:24 <shachaf> One time Cale lost the quote database so I reconstructed it from #haskell logs.
03:19:35 <shachaf> It probably lost and gained a bunch back then.
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04:35:17 <\oren\> i wonder how long i can standhere using their interbet[befire im arrested for loitering
04:51:13 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a maximum possible length for a word in german?
04:51:55 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, obviously the words get unwieldy and impractical at some point- even for germans- but is there some actual, grammatical restriction that prevents you from making a word of indefinite length that carries meaning without redundancy?
04:56:01 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Are you sure? I wouldn't have thought chess games are necessarily finite either, but they are
04:56:26 <oerjan> chess games have rules against repetition
04:56:55 <oerjan> and less importantly, certain moves that are truly irreversible
04:57:29 <oerjan> (pawn moves and castling)
04:58:00 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: I think you can make arbitrarily long words pretty easily.
04:59:00 <oerjan> hm wait you said without redundancy
04:59:15 <oerjan> well that's a semantic problem, i'd think
04:59:26 <tswett> Like "Bierbierbierbierbier".
04:59:33 <tswett> Meaning "beer beer beer beer beer".
04:59:48 <oerjan> i'd say that looks pretty redundant.
05:00:22 <oerjan> `le/rn redundancy/Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it.
05:00:39 <oerjan> i think int-e has had enough time to create it.
05:00:57 <tswett> Well, if nothing else: if you have a sequence of, say, Graham's number of German affixes all in a row, then there must be at least one sequence of at least one million affixes which appears at least one million times.
05:02:36 <oerjan> but is it redundant if the subterms never repeat in meaning?
05:04:10 <oerjan> Nullnachfolgernachfolgernachfolgernachfolger
05:05:10 <oerjan> (assuming that's the right word for "successor" in this meaning. wiktionary didn't show it in the right place.)
05:26:40 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas On the wiki, one shouldn't create a new page and redirect to it. One should use move, which also moves history.
05:28:01 <shachaf> The same thing is true on x86. One should use the mov instruction to move data, rather than copy it.
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05:52:07 <shachaf> dnm: ready for another long night of not sleeping?
05:53:25 <dnm> It turned out not to be that long.
05:53:39 <dnm> Though late night booze and food did keep me awake until at least around 3:30 AM...
05:55:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'dnm': dnm does not mind.
05:58:23 <dnm> I suppose not.
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05:59:53 <dnm> Woo! I have OpenVMS licenses.
05:59:56 <dnm> Now for media.
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06:44:46 <dnm> Certainly not profit.
06:44:56 <dnm> I want a system to hack BLISS in for no real reason.
06:46:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Cats]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47183&oldid=47182 * Martin Ender * (+1)
06:49:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47185&oldid=47157 * Martin Ender * (+17) /* S */
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09:33:41 <Destructible> I think I should make a page for the language I thought up
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10:09:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... what does a 5D cube projected into 4D projected into 3D look like?
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10:26:41 <int-e> It's still an affine map... so basically it's no different than projecting to 3d in one step; it may come out sheared.
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11:32:53 <hppavilion[1]> Huh. On a torus, the 4 color theorem becomes the 7 color theorem
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11:45:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdome: not found
11:45:22 <HackEgo> monoidal category//Monoidal categories are just 2-categories with a single object.
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12:22:58 <noloveinwaikiki> Hello. I am looking for a user called ehird. He used to hang in this channel years ago. He still does? Or do you know where i can find him? Thanks for help.
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12:27:41 <FireFly> Not since a couple years I think
12:27:52 <noloveinwaikiki> maybe you can give him my mail address so he can contact me: KasiaWygodna@gmail.com ..oh
12:32:24 <Koen_> I think they meant literally a couple years
12:41:58 <b_jonas> wtf, lua 5.3 has labels and goto? I never noticed that. great!
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12:47:19 <gamemanj> ...would you like some raptors with that goto?
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12:54:12 <ybden> `? raptor invasion
12:54:22 <HackEgo> raptor invasion? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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13:27:26 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; grep -r 'goto language' .
13:27:51 <ybden> `` cd wisdon; grep -r goto
13:28:15 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; grep -r 'go.to language' .
13:28:16 <ybden> `` cd wisdom; grep -r goto
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13:28:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: cd: wisdon: No such file or directory
13:28:50 <HackEgo> ./forth:Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication.
13:30:22 <int-e> . o O ( I was hoping for something like: BASIC is the go-to language for structural programming )
13:31:25 <int-e> s/structural/structured/
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14:13:48 <mroman> What happens to entropy when you do average?
14:14:07 <mroman> For example let's say a symbol has 24bit of information
14:14:20 <mroman> (so there are 2^24 symbols)
14:14:31 <mroman> what's the entropy of the average of n such integers?
14:16:19 <int-e> n*24 bits... if you keep their order
14:17:13 <int-e> and more importantly, if the symbols are independent
14:37:18 <mroman> The average of 4 binary numbers (0..1)
14:38:01 <mroman> 15 of those will result in a white pixel
14:38:06 <mroman> 1 will result in a black pixel
14:38:10 <mroman> at least with integer division
14:38:26 <mroman> so the entropy is 0.337
14:38:43 <mroman> if you use like if the sum >= 2 then it's 1 else 0
14:38:48 <mroman> you still have less than 1 bit of entropy
14:40:37 <mroman> a grayscale 8bit 2x2 pixel image has 32bit entropy right?
14:41:09 <mroman> assuming that every pixel is equally likely to occur
14:42:18 <mroman> if you use 4bit grayscale you have 16bit of information in a 2x2 pixel image
14:42:36 <mroman> if you take the average you should be left with 3.26bits of entropy
14:43:48 <mroman> which is weird because if you don't take the average but just the top left pixel
14:44:01 <mroman> I'd exect the resulting 1x1 pixel to have 4bits of information
14:44:42 <int-e> mroman: Ah I didn't parse your question correctly.
14:44:57 <mroman> Technically the question is we have an image and we scale it down
14:45:13 <mroman> what will loose more information: doing average of 2x2 blocks or selecting top-left pixel of 2x2 blocks
14:45:36 <mroman> and we reduced that problem to "let's look at just a 2x2 pixel image"
14:45:58 <mroman> but since pixels are just integers :)
14:46:05 <mroman> rgb is just a 24bit integer
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14:46:16 <mroman> also the assumption is that every pixel is equall likely to occur
14:46:51 <mroman> so naively we said that one pixel in a black-white image has 1 bit of information
14:47:02 <mroman> so selecting the top-left pixel of a 2x2 image will result in an image with 1 bit of information
14:47:40 <mroman> however, doing average will result in 0.337 bits (because then in the scaled down image black occurs 15 more often than white)
14:47:53 <mroman> which is due to integer rounding
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14:48:27 <mroman> so we tried it with 4bits 5bits etc
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14:50:11 <mroman> and the question is: does the average contain the same amount of information as selecting the top-left pixel
14:50:56 <mroman> it looks like for more bits the rounding stuff gets smaller and you eventually end up with the same amount of information
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15:02:28 <int-e> well, an easy estimate is that the sum of 4 8-bit numbers contains between 8 and 10 bits of information; dividing by 4 loses up to 2 bits of information so you'll have between 6 and 8 bits left.
15:17:39 <int-e> the actual value before rounding is 9.250423023523387 bits
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15:24:21 <int-e> and the rounding loses close enough to 2 bits that you probably won't care.
15:35:01 <gamemanj> How, exactly, does 9.250423... of a bit work?
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15:55:24 <int-e> gamemanj: if you have a binary value that's on with probability 2/3 and off with probability 1/3 then that represents (about) 0.9183 bits of information... one interpretaion of that number is that if you take 10000 independent of these numbers then they can be represented using 9183 (plus a few) bits, on average.
15:57:30 <int-e> gamemanj: if you're mathematically minded, you could try reading the Shannon 1948 paper, it's quite nice.
15:59:28 <izabera> shannon himself forbade non mathematically minded people from reading it
15:59:34 <izabera> but now he's dead so i guess it's fine
16:00:13 <b_jonas> izabera: I haven't read the original paper, but information theory is sufficiently classic now that there are very good tertiary source textbooks and courses
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16:02:29 <int-e> izabera: wait, "shannon himself forbade non mathematically minded people from reading it"... did he, really?
16:03:04 <int-e> I just wrote "mathematically minded" because it is quite formal.
16:03:23 <b_jonas> `learn Shannon forbade non mathematically minded people from reading his research papers. Taneb invented it.
16:03:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'shannon': Shannon forbade non mathematically minded people from reading his research papers. Taneb invented it.
16:03:38 <int-e> and more formal than it really needs to be if you're just interested in computing entropies.
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18:06:10 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen gregor ever
18:06:28 <impomatic_> Hmmm... has anyone seen gregor lately?
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19:39:24 <HackEgo> with my own two hands? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:43:49 <int-e> are they dark and cold?
19:43:59 <b_jonas> dark, but probably nt cold
19:44:43 <int-e> will carlsen lose another game on time today?
19:45:33 <shachaf> b_jonas: Why do you `? things like that?
19:46:05 <int-e> house sounds like something we might have a wisdom entry for
19:46:58 <int-e> at the very least it could allude mysteriously to http://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/
19:47:08 <int-e> and I'm sure there are other interesting houses
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20:06:36 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; echo *root*
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21:11:09 <moon_> im offically dumping codeblocks >_>
21:11:27 <qrf> In favour of..?
21:12:18 <moon_> Eclipse C++, codeblocks's compiler is broken in every way, including missing standard library components (curse you atoi!)
21:14:12 <moon_> Eclipse needs faster mirrors >_>
21:14:42 <moon_> virtualbox, which is about the same size as eclipse C++, downloads much faster
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21:19:25 <moon_> didnt esoteric use to have a forum?
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22:16:34 <b_jonas> `learn `? is the command to query wisdom entries.
22:16:40 <HackEgo> Relearned '`': `? is the command to query wisdom entries.
22:17:22 <HackEgo> wisdom/`//` is the prefix to greatness.
22:17:25 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
22:17:31 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
22:17:34 <b_jonas> `slashlearn `?/`? is the command to query wisdom entries.
22:17:42 <HackEgo> `? is the command to query wisdom entries.
22:17:46 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
22:18:37 <shachaf> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/3540a712fd40
22:18:38 <HackEgo> vim equals to approximately ccxxxxxxxxviin.
22:18:39 <HackEgo> emacs is the weird brother of nano.
22:19:09 <b_jonas> maybe I shouldn't have replaced that?
22:19:36 <HackEgo> b_jonas int-e ais523 oerjan hppavilion1_ oerjan oerjan elliott oerjan JWinslow23 JWinslow23 JWinslow23 Roujo Roujo Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 oerjan boily boily elliott FreeFull GreyKnight GreyKnight
22:19:58 <HackEgo> 1/3:<b_jonas> slashlearn `?/`? is the command to query wisdom entries. \ <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <oerjan> revert \ <hppavilion1_> learn `? Woooooooooow you\'re sooooooooooooooooooooo metaaaaaaaaa- No. \ <oerjan> sed -i \'s/\xc2\xb0/\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b/\' wisdom/\'`?\' \
22:20:32 <HackEgo> 2/3:<oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <oerjan> revert 3875 \ <JWinslow23> learn `? `? \ <JWinslow23> learn `? `? `? \ <JWinslow23> learn `? `? \ <Roujo> learn `? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf \ <Roujo> learn `? is `? is `? \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <ais523> reve
22:21:14 <HackEgo> 3/3:rt 87c64ef250a0 \ <ais523> revert 3 \ <oerjan> revert 1934 \ <boily> rm wisdom/`? \ <boily> learn `? `? `? \ <elliott> revert 1492 \ <FreeFull> revert 4 \ <GreyKnight> echo \'See `? for further details.\' > \'wisdom/`?\' \ <GreyKnight> \'See `? for further details.\' > \'wisdom/`?\' \
22:21:18 <HackEgo> sed: can't read bin/2: No such file or directory
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22:29:18 <b_jonas> `learn can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. The list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staff task vast
22:29:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'can't': can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. The list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't
22:29:30 <HackEgo> can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. The list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staff task vast
22:32:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: dunno, some of them might be wrong
22:32:34 <b_jonas> I don't know a definitive list
22:32:49 <b_jonas> shachaf: if you know a better list, please tell me
22:33:25 <b_jonas> (these are only the more common words. there are lots of rarer ones.)
22:34:20 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/can't//s.The.A.
22:34:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/can't//can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staf
22:34:34 <b_jonas> shachaf: hehe, yes, good idea
22:35:22 <shachaf> I kind of want to record statistics about all commands to see which are used most often.
22:35:37 <HackEgo> wisdom//wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
22:35:45 <HackEgo> Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
22:35:45 <shachaf> You know they're all going to come up not found.
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22:36:09 <moon__> im making a openbsd bot for fun, should i bring it here?
22:36:28 <b_jonas> depends on how annoying it is
22:36:44 <moon__> im not gonna terrorize the chat lol
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22:37:20 <moon__> as long as the bot is not abused to do it, it should be fine
22:37:35 <b_jonas> moon__: wait, I'll help, I'll go to sleep, and while I'm away you can safely bring the bot in, I won't be terrorizing the channel with it
22:37:43 <b_jonas> just make sure you take it down again in the morning
22:38:48 <moon__> it has a 16 gig harddrive space and network access
22:38:53 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
22:39:47 <moon__> note that due to openbsd limitations, you *may* run out of space in some of the folders
22:39:56 <moon__> i.e once im done unpacking ports
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22:42:03 <moon__> you also have 1 gb of ram, i cant give too much lol
22:42:46 <moon__> i can give less than 1 gig
22:44:04 <moon__> usr dir is a little small
22:46:29 <moon__> also, if anyone causes problems, ill be on standby to fix them (if i can) :P
22:50:29 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
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22:56:10 <moon__> openbsd didnt install correctly >_>
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22:57:23 <moon__> nvm, just forgot to eject the install disk
23:06:07 <moon__> anyways, is there a good way to allow the irc bot to call commands over ssh?
23:16:53 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
23:38:39 <moon__> well, i have the openbsd enviorment running, but i cant figure out how to get a bash irc bot to work.
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23:40:40 <Sgeo_> A tool to allow creation of IRC bots that just manipulate the filesystem
23:40:44 <Sgeo_> http://tools.suckless.org/ii/
23:50:49 <moon__> to get hexbot started, for now, im gonna modify ii-bot, ill make a custom system in the future
00:04:36 <moon__> gentoo live image anyone? virtualbox fixed the bug that it caused with some newer versions of the linux kernal
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00:29:40 <moon__> i apparently made a mistake
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00:33:22 <moon__> i forgot to chmod +x the fake exec lol
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00:34:27 <moon__> back to the drawing board, unless you guys want to use it
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00:38:41 <moon__> this time i failed at sed
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00:39:38 <havocbot> moon__:README:bashbot:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:commands:filters
00:39:43 <moon__> i keep making that mistake, and yay
00:40:11 <moon__> ok, im gonna leave you guys in the home directory, have fun with root privs :P
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00:41:12 <moon__> actually, i think the chat is dead?
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00:42:20 <moon__> what do you think of havocbot so far?
00:42:34 <oerjan> sorry, i've been otherwise occupied.
00:42:58 <moon__> havocbot: mkdir src #lets see if it cares about comments
00:43:15 <moon__> havocbot: exec mkdir src #lets see if it cares about comments
00:43:20 <moon__> i keep forgetting the exec
00:43:57 <moon__> i think i broke something again by cding out, i forgot to make it knows its own path
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00:46:16 <oerjan> moon__: there does indeed seem to be a lot of havoc
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00:47:19 <moon__> annnd i forgot something AGAIN
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00:48:14 <oerjan> does it support exec rm -r . yet
00:48:38 <oerjan> sorry, exec rm -r -f .
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00:52:47 <oerjan> havocbot: exec quintopia
00:53:41 <quintopia> yep clearly this bot was not written with us in mind
00:53:51 <oerjan> i think the havocbot: is obligatory
00:55:05 <oerjan> havocbot: exec ls fnord
00:55:27 <oerjan> ok that command was supposed to work
00:55:47 <quintopia> havocbot: prod moon__ into explaining why you don't work
00:56:41 <quintopia> hmm could have sworn that one would work
00:57:22 <quintopia> well. it doesn't ping out. that's something
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00:58:48 <quintopia> i think we should name the bot simon and have the command string be simon says
00:59:27 <oerjan> except that's illogical.
00:59:44 <oerjan> it's not simon that performs the command, usually
01:02:54 <quintopia> as if the commmander and commandee can't have the same name
01:05:02 <oerjan> in that case, it should be Bruce hth
01:06:17 <moon__> .... il look at the logs
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01:07:14 <quintopia> also bruce is actually a better name
01:07:38 <moon__> also, due to lazyness, the 'exec' command actually just uses 'exec'
01:07:48 <moon__> i might make it use commands from 'bin' later.
01:08:06 <moon__> aka extend its command librayr
01:08:21 <moon__> so it doesnt just exec them
01:08:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: exec: not found
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01:08:53 <int-e> if at first you don't succeed...
01:09:39 <int-e> moon__: I hope you spell code better than English.
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01:11:30 <moon__> he now uses /bin as the main command dir
01:11:37 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:12:14 <moon__> thats not a bin command, is it? xD
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01:13:06 <moon__> ok, now to add sbin support
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01:18:02 <havocbot> moon__:README:bashbot:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:commands:filters
01:18:28 <moon__> why is gentoo pretending cd does not exist?
01:18:50 <quintopia> it isnt. you're doing something wrong
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01:20:10 <moon__> wait. would "$cmd" execute the command?
01:20:18 <moon__> that is contained in cmd?
01:20:55 <oerjan> moon__: cd isn't an external command, it needs to be defined in the persistently running shell.
01:21:11 <oerjan> HackEgo doesn't usefully have it for that reason.
01:21:24 <oerjan> (well across commands)
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01:22:05 <oerjan> although someone here once made an external cd by using gdb
01:22:42 <oerjan> (it connected gdb to the parent process and forced it to run the cd syscall, or thereabouts)
01:23:39 <moon__> kk, ill just have it stay in ~
01:24:08 <moon__> or would adding a call to cd in the if block that figures out what type of cmmand you want work?
01:24:28 <oerjan> that should work, assuming that block is in the long-running process
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01:25:16 <moon__> ok, just gotta add the filter
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01:26:31 <moon__> i beleive it is now throwing commands at the shell directly'
01:26:53 <havocbot> moon__:README:bashbot:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:commands:filters
01:27:14 <moon__> ok ill try the if block extension, i just made it redundant 10 seconds ago
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01:28:43 <moon__> ok, i think it should work
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01:29:06 <havocbot> moon__:README:bashbot:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:commands:filters
01:29:26 <moon__> maybe i should just make a little dir for you all to use to run the bot
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01:30:20 <moon__> you should be in the main dir
01:30:23 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
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01:30:34 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:30:39 <moon__> Ok, you can do what you all want now heh
01:30:43 <ybden> havocbot: ls /../../..
01:30:44 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:30:55 <moon__> its gentoo, idk if it supports that
01:31:11 <moon__> havocbot: rm ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:31:34 <moon__> its singleline, dont you see?
01:31:34 <shachaf> Oh, that's fixed, at least.
01:32:12 <moon__> it gave you the useage (=
01:32:52 <moon__> or i will waste my time adding a ignore list
01:32:58 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:33:43 <moon__> havocbot: bash rm -f ii-1.7.tar.gz #this might get around the single argument limitation
01:34:23 <moon__> bash is offically a no-no
01:34:40 <moon__> wait its taking this as lines
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01:35:52 <moon__> havocbot: rm -f ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:36:29 <moon__> is there a way to bypass the single arg limitation?
01:38:58 <moon__> hello? is everyone dead or unwilling to give me a tip?
01:39:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
01:40:42 <moon__> $cmd "$@" is the command call..
01:41:23 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:42:38 -!- havocbot has joined.
01:42:53 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:43:06 <moon__> havocbot: cat bashbot.config
01:43:06 <havocbot> moon__:nick=havocbot:server=irc.freenode.net:port=6667:chans=( "#esoteric" )
01:43:54 <moon__> havocbot: cat bashbot.config | grep "nick"
01:43:54 <havocbot> moon__:nick=havocbot:server=irc.freenode.net:port=6667:chans=( "#esoteric" )
01:43:59 <moon__> havocbot: cat bashbot.config | grep -e "nick"
01:43:59 <havocbot> moon__:nick=havocbot$:server=irc.freenode.net$:port=6667$:chans=( "#esoteric" )$
01:44:16 <moon__> maybe i should actually use bash to do it?
01:45:36 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
01:45:49 <moon__> whats with the op oerjan?
01:46:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*uid156554@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-deybdlcjwgqyifml.
01:46:04 -!- oerjan has kicked silverscream.
01:46:23 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
01:46:46 <oerjan> moon__: silverscream = noloveinwaikiki (earlier today) = hagb4rd
01:47:40 <moon__> i bet he/she might try to mess up havocbot?
01:48:06 <oerjan> moon__: i bet he/she would not think of it unless you give him the idea.
01:48:19 <moon__> also, you can use wget to put files on havoc
01:48:35 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7:ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:48:46 <moon__> havocbot: rm -f ii-1.7.tar.gz
01:48:56 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:ii-1.7
01:50:38 <moon__> also, python is preinstalled for your useage
01:53:11 <moon__> havocbot freezes when interactives are used in such a way the open a interactive set
01:53:34 <moon__> luckily havoc only has bash so you didnt make me reboot it
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01:53:52 <ybden> moon__: You might like to change how that works?
01:54:00 <ybden> havocbot: bash -c ls
01:54:00 <havocbot> ::ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
01:54:03 -!- augur has joined.
01:54:06 <moon__> havocbot: echo hi #i might need to fix something if this doesnt work
01:54:07 <havocbot> moon__:hi #i might need to fix something if this doesnt work
01:54:10 <ybden> note to self: do not do just bash
01:54:19 <ybden> moon__: no, -c is non-interactive
01:54:27 <ybden> just executes a command, then exits
01:54:55 <ybden> havocbot: bloop () { }; bloop
01:55:03 <ybden> havocbot: bloop () { echo test; }; bloop
01:55:10 <ybden> havocbot: bash -c 'bloop () { echo test; }; bloop'
01:55:26 <moon__> its not direct terminal. it $cmd "$@" to execute commands
01:55:40 <moon__> also, nvm, sh does exist
01:55:44 <moon__> just.. its still running
01:55:50 <ybden> havocbot: pgrep sh
01:56:06 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:56:09 <ybden> when did that happen, moon__?
01:56:23 -!- havocbot has joined.
01:56:24 <moon__> commands output and chat is logged
01:56:28 <ybden> havocbot: bash -c 'bloop () { echo test; }; bloop'
01:56:33 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
01:56:40 <ybden> havocbot: bloop () { echo test; }; bloop
01:56:47 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
01:56:49 <moon__> we might need to give it mk
01:57:03 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
01:57:18 <moon__> hackego is also a linux bot, just slower
01:57:26 <moon__> and sandboxed with no network access
01:58:21 <moon__> hackego and havocbot both lack cd
01:59:06 <moon__> anyways, i cant keep havocbot up at all times, sadly
01:59:14 <moon__> its only up when im up
02:00:41 <ybden> moon__: maybe make it formatted more nicely?
02:00:44 <ybden> havocbot: uname -a
02:00:44 <havocbot> ybden:Linux livecd 4.0.5-gentoo #1 SMP Tue Aug 4 05:40:35 UTC 2015 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N2840 @ 2.16GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
02:00:50 <havocbot> ybden:Architecture: i686:CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit:Byte Order: Little Endian:CPU(s): 2:On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1:Thread(s) per core: 1:Core(s) per socket: 2:Socket(s): 1:Vendor ID: GenuineIntel:CPU family: 6:Model: 55:Model name: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N2840 @ 2.16GHz:Stepping: 8:CPU MHz: 2166.617:
02:01:19 <ybden> was wondering why i686
02:01:25 <havocbot> ybden:bin:i486-pc-linux-gnu:include:lib:libexec:livecd:local:portage:sbin:share:src:tmp
02:01:29 <ybden> havocbot: ls /usr/bin
02:01:30 <havocbot> ybden:2to3:2to3-2.7:2to3-3.4:[:a2p:a2x:a2x.py:aconnect:acpi_listen:addr2name:alsamixer:alsaucm:amidi:amixer:aoss:aplay:aplaymidi:apm:apmsleep:apropos:arch:arecord:arecordmidi:arpd:asciidoc:asciidoc.py:aseqdump:aseqnet:aserver:avivotool:awk:b2:b43-fwcutter:base64:basename:bashbug:bc:bjam:bzcmp:bzdiff:bzegrep:bzfgrep:bzgrep:bzip2recover:bzless:bzmore:c2ph:c89:c99:c_rehash:cal:calc_tickadj:captest:captoinfo:catchsegv:catman:chage:charde
02:01:42 <ybden> moon__: any reason why there's no gcc?
02:01:46 <ybden> havocbot: which gcc
02:01:49 <ybden> havocbot: which make
02:01:54 <ybden> or anything else like that
02:01:55 <moon__> livecd doesnt have it for no reason whatsoever
02:02:48 <moon__> i downloaded gentoo a ln while ag
02:02:56 <ybden> out of date Gentoo? D:
02:03:29 <moon__> ill update to a new livecd soon
02:04:07 <moon__> also, pls do not ls /usr/bin
02:04:48 <ybden> moon__: you should maybe add some timeouts
02:05:09 <moon__> or just a command to allow people to kill a command
02:05:14 <moon__> if it runs out of hand
02:05:16 <ybden> to avoid while true; do nothing; done, and interactive things, I mean
02:05:30 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
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02:05:46 <ybden> havocbot: bash -c 'while true; do true; done'
02:05:48 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:05:55 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:06:00 <ybden> moon__: you fixed that?
02:06:03 <ybden> havocbot: pgrep bash
02:06:06 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:06:08 <moon__> the commads are running reduntantly, >_>
02:06:14 <ybden> havocbot: killall bash
02:06:15 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:06:34 <ybden> (:D: being combination of :D and D:)
02:06:37 <moon__> i will physically murder you
02:06:41 -!- havocbot has joined.
02:06:55 <ybden> havocbot: echo $PID
02:07:06 <ybden> havocbot: bash -c 'echo $PID'
02:07:31 <ybden> did the killall bash crash it
02:07:42 <moon__> it was used wrong, dummy
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02:07:52 <ybden> moon__: what did it do, then?
02:07:52 <moon__> or i will try to block you lol
02:08:03 <moon__> printed its help message to the terminal
02:08:06 <ybden> I don't see how that was incorrect usage
02:08:23 <ybden> havocbot: kill -l -1
02:08:23 <havocbot> ybden: 1) SIGHUP 2) SIGINT 3) SIGQUIT 4) SIGILL 5) SIGTRAP: 6) SIGABRT 7) SIGBUS 8) SIGFPE 9) SIGKILL10) SIGUSR1:11) SIGSEGV12) SIGUSR213) SIGPIPE14) SIGALRM15) SIGTERM:16) SIGSTKFLT17) SIGCHLD18) SIGCONT19) SIGSTOP20) SIGTSTP:21) SIGTTIN22) SIGTTOU23) SIGURG24) SIGXCPU25) SIGXFSZ:26) SIGVTALRM27) SIGPROF28) SIGWINCH29) SIGIO30) SIGPWR:31) SIGSYS34) SIGRTMIN35) SIGRTMIN+136) SIGRTMIN+237) SIGRTMIN+3:38) SI
02:08:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:08:33 <ybden> havocbot: kill -- -1
02:08:33 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:08:44 <ybden> eh, that doesn't work how I remember it
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02:09:19 <moon__> you made gentoo shw the start msg again
02:09:20 <ybden> I was pretty sure that -1 was supposed to be interpreted as negative 1, not flag positive one
02:09:39 <ybden> havocbot: ls -alFh /etc/motd
02:09:40 <havocbot> ybden:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 885 Aug 4 2015 /etc/motd
02:09:43 <moon__> im very happy its a virtuall machine
02:09:53 <ybden> havocbot: >/etc/motd
02:09:54 <ybden> havocbot: ls -alFh /etc/motd
02:09:55 <havocbot> ybden:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 885 Aug 4 2015 /etc/motd
02:09:59 <moon__> do not abuse your root privs -.-
02:10:03 <ybden> havocbot: truncate /etc/motd
02:10:05 <ybden> havocbot: ls -alFh /etc/motd
02:10:05 <havocbot> ybden:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 885 Aug 4 2015 /etc/motd
02:10:16 <ybden> moon__: I was removing the start message for you
02:10:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:10:25 <ybden> Also I don't get why that wasn't working
02:10:33 <ybden> moon__: wait, you /want/ it?
02:10:44 <moon__> '$cmd "$@"' is what uses cmds
02:10:51 <moon__> multiarg cmds need bash
02:10:57 <moon__> yea, dont mess with my livecd
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02:11:33 <ybden> moon__: er, are you sharing directories with it? D:
02:11:37 <ybden> havocbot: ls /home
02:11:53 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:12:11 <ybden> havocbot: which truncate
02:12:20 <ybden> I don't get why truncate wouldn't have worked
02:12:23 <moon__> also, deleting ii-1.7 will get you killed again
02:12:24 <ybden> havocbot: truncate foo
02:12:26 <havocbot> ybden:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:12:28 <moon__> as that contains the bot
02:12:51 <ybden> havocbot: file ii-1.7
02:12:53 <moon__> trunctuate: you must either specify --size or --reference
02:13:04 <ybden> moon__: okay, I remembered it wrong then >.<
02:13:16 <ybden> havocbot: ls -alFh ii*
02:13:16 <havocbot> ybden:total 56K:drwxr-x--- 3 1000 1000 260 Jun 9 23:15 ./:drwx------ 5 root root 240 Jun 10 01:08 ../:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 2.0K Jan 5 2013 CHANGES:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 1.6K Jan 5 2013 FAQ:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 1.2K Jan 5 2013 LICENSE:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 1.3K Jan 5 2013 Makefile:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 1.9K Jan 5 2013 README:drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 180 Jun 10 00:27 bashbot-master/:-rw-r----- 1 1000 1000 733 Jan 5
02:13:25 <havocbot> ybden:CHANGES:FAQ:LICENSE:Makefile:README:bashbot-master:config.mk:ii.1:ii.c:master.zip:query.sh
02:13:41 <moon__> it contains ii, that useful lib, but i found myself not using it
02:13:59 <ybden> moon__: nah, I just used it wrong
02:14:03 <ybden> havocbot: touch me
02:14:17 <ybden> hmm, does it not redirect stderr to stdout?
02:14:20 <ybden> might want to change that
02:14:29 <moon__> for some reason, no, im looking into it
02:14:44 <moon__> if you can upload the bashbot file somewhere, go ahead
02:14:56 <ybden> right, it invokes a subshell each time?
02:15:34 <ybden> hmm, quoting is weird with this
02:15:48 <moon__> mk would be usefull here
02:16:37 <moon__> anyone willing to add mk to havocbot?
02:16:43 <moon__> you can use wget to fetch it
02:18:33 <moon__> virtualbox doesnt have shared folders for gentoo as far as i know *responding to earlier message*
02:19:20 <moon__> you like havocbot ybden?
02:19:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/echo-p
02:19:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
02:20:30 <moon__> havocbot: wget http://pastebin.com/raw/50Pts79s
02:20:41 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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02:21:48 <havocbot> moon__:50Pts79s:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:ii-1.7:src
02:22:24 <moon__> havocbot: bash -c 'mv 50Pts79s /bin/echo-p'
02:22:48 <moon__> havocbot: mv 50Pts79s /bin/echo-p
02:23:08 <oerjan> havocbot: echo hi there
02:23:09 <moon__> havocbot: mv 50Pts79s /usr/bin/echo-p
02:23:32 <moon__> havocbot: mv 50Pts79s echo-p
02:23:50 <oerjan> havocbot: touch hi there
02:23:54 <havocbot> oerjan:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:hi:ii-1.7:src:there
02:24:10 <oerjan> looks to me like it takes multiple args
02:24:18 <moon__> yea, i figured that i was wrong
02:24:48 <moon__> havocbot: wget http://pastebin.com/VkvFjPqu
02:24:57 <oerjan> it expands to the same number of strings as the original argument list
02:25:11 <moon__> havocbot: mv VkvFjPqu mk
02:25:23 <moon__> havocbot: chmod +x echo-p
02:25:39 <moon__> havocbot: ./mk test//foobar
02:25:59 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src
02:26:08 <moon__> havocbot: mk test//foobar
02:26:22 <moon__> havocbot: bash -c './mk test//foobar'
02:26:46 <moon__> havocbot: bash -c ' ./mk test//foobar '
02:29:09 <moon__> mk is in the main folder
02:29:46 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c 'echo $PATH'
02:30:15 <moon__> then you can try again
02:30:16 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c 'echo test'
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02:30:37 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c 'echo $PATH'
02:30:45 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c 'echo test'
02:31:11 <havocbot> oerjan:.:..:.bash_history:.bash_profile:.bashrc:.keep:.python_history:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src
02:31:27 <havocbot> oerjan:#!/bin/bash::if [ ! "$(grep nox /proc/cmdline)" ]:then:if [ -x /usr/bin/X ]:then:if [ -e /etc/startx -a $(tty) = "/dev/tty1" ];:then:rm -f /etc/startx:##STARTX:[ -f /etc/motd ] && cat /etc/motd:fi:fi:fi
02:31:52 <oerjan> havocbot: ls -l .bashrc
02:31:54 <havocbot> oerjan:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 221 Aug 4 2015 .bashrc
02:31:58 <moon__> : is used when a \n is encountered
02:32:09 <oerjan> hm .bashrc is too old to be broken
02:32:46 <oerjan> it tries to run the string 'echo
02:33:32 <oerjan> havocbot: echo echo $PATH | bash
02:34:22 <oerjan> havocbot: echo test hi
02:35:35 <moon__> it could use a better script to run it
02:35:51 <moon__> because its not echoed to irc
02:37:08 <havocbot> oerjan:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src
02:37:17 <havocbot> oerjan:mk: HTML document, ASCII text, with very long lines, with CRLF, LF line terminators
02:37:47 <oerjan> moon__: you didn't download the raw version
02:38:12 <moon__> havocbot: wget http://pastebin.com/raw/VkvFjPqu
02:38:36 <moon__> havocbot: mv VkvFjPqu mk
02:38:51 <moon__> havocbot: ./mk test//foobar
02:39:05 <havocbot> moon__:mk: ASCII text, with no line terminators
02:39:54 <havocbot> oerjan:echo-p: ASCII text, with no line terminators
02:39:58 <moon__> havocbot: bash -c ' ./mk foo//bar '
02:40:31 <moon__> im no good at bash, it did run th
02:40:53 <oerjan> moon__: you cannot run bash commands containing spaces at this point
02:41:06 <oerjan> i'm more concerned that my cat failed
02:41:14 <zzo38> Then, are you going to fix it?
02:41:29 <moon__> eh, depends if i can figure out how, haha
02:42:31 <moon__> if anyone offers a better script, tho, ill happily use it
02:42:45 <oerjan> havocbot: hexdump echo-p
02:42:45 <havocbot> oerjan:0000000 6365 6f68 2220 3124 3b22 5b20 205b 2422:0000010 2231 3d20 203d 2f2a 202a 5d5d 2620 2026:0000020 6b6d 6964 2072 702d 2220 7b24 2531 2a2f:0000030 227d 3220 2f3e 6564 2f76 756e 6c6c :000003e
02:42:50 <moon__> xxd is a invalid command
02:44:13 <moon__> did i forget to chmod?
02:44:22 <oerjan> could it simply be failing because there's no newline in it?
02:44:48 <moon__> its the command from hackego
02:45:13 <oerjan> havocbot: sed -i s/$/\n/ echo-p
02:45:28 <havocbot> oerjan:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null
02:45:55 <moon__> check if mk is invalid
02:46:00 <oerjan> moon__: you don't print output which doesn't end with a newline, i think
02:46:08 <havocbot> oerjan:mk: ASCII text, with no line terminators
02:46:17 <oerjan> havocbot: sed -i s/$/\n/ mk
02:46:28 <havocbot> oerjan:[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
02:46:44 <moon__> havocbot: ./mk foo//bar
02:46:54 <oerjan> i think there might be a problem finding echo-p
02:47:05 <moon__> no its mk thats not found
02:47:18 <moon__> as stated by the terminal
02:47:39 <havocbot> oerjan:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src
02:47:42 <moon__> thats the dir we are in
02:48:22 <havocbot> moon__:bin:boot:dev:etc:home:initramfs:lib:mnt:opt:proc:root:run:sbin:sys:tmp:usr:var
02:48:31 <oerjan> havocbot: sed -i s,echo-p,.,echo-p, mk
02:48:37 <havocbot> oerjan:[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
02:48:49 <oerjan> havocbot: sed -i s,echo-p,./echo-p, mk
02:48:52 <havocbot> oerjan:[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(./echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
02:49:02 <moon__> havocbot: ./mk foo//bar
02:49:18 <moon__> mk: command not found in line 175 of bashbot
02:49:52 <oerjan> moon__: well that's strange.
02:49:57 <havocbot> oerjan:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 163 Jun 10 01:48 mk
02:50:19 <moon__> havocbot: ./mk foo//bar
02:50:22 <oerjan> havocbot: ls -l echo-p
02:50:22 <havocbot> oerjan:-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 63 Jun 10 01:44 echo-p
02:50:36 <oerjan> havocbot: chmod a+x mk
02:50:41 <havocbot> oerjan:-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 163 Jun 10 01:48 mk
02:50:50 <moon__> you blacked my terminal with that for some reason
02:51:06 <moon__> just gentoo going to sleep, nvm
02:53:21 <moon__> if i knew bash a little better, we wouldnt have this problem >_>
02:53:39 <moon__> well, maybe a python bot made by someone would help.
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02:55:52 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c echotest
02:56:16 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c echo
02:56:20 <moon__> multiargs ruin everything
02:56:34 <oerjan> yes. i was trying to see if tabs got around it.
02:56:54 <moon__> maybe fizzie could help, he/she is good with computers
02:58:25 <oerjan> havocbot: bash -c echo{,$PATH}
02:58:25 <havocbot> oerjan:echo/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
02:58:31 <moon__> anyone who has experience with gentoo on?
02:59:05 <oerjan> hm no home directory listed
02:59:18 <moon__> cd goes to it, but thats it >_>
02:59:51 <oerjan> you should add the bin directory to $PATH
03:00:06 <moon__> if i knew how, im a linux newb still hah
03:00:09 <oerjan> then you can have new commands in their proper place
03:00:44 <moon__> you *are* the root user you know
03:00:56 <havocbot> oerjan:bin:boot:dev:etc:home:initramfs:lib:mnt:opt:proc:root:run:sbin:sys:tmp:usr:var
03:01:09 <havocbot> oerjan:bin:boot:dev:etc:home:initramfs:lib:mnt:opt:proc:root:run:sbin:sys:tmp:usr:var
03:01:14 <havocbot> oerjan:bin:boot:dev:etc:home:initramfs:lib:mnt:opt:proc:root:run:sbin:sys:tmp:usr:var
03:01:23 <havocbot> oerjan:bin:boot:dev:etc:home:initramfs:lib:mnt:opt:proc:root:run:sbin:sys:tmp:usr:var
03:01:33 <oerjan> what happened to all the stuff i saw before...
03:01:38 <havocbot> oerjan:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src
03:02:08 <havocbot> oerjan:CHANGES:FAQ:LICENSE:Makefile:README:bashbot-master:config.mk:ii.1:ii.c:master.zip:query.sh
03:02:50 <moon__> ii is a irc service, but i didnt use it
03:02:57 <moon__> dont touch bashbot-master
03:03:50 <moon__> if you can upload it somewhere and fix it. go ahead
03:03:51 <oerjan> havocbot: ls bashbot-master
03:04:05 <oerjan> havocbot: file bashbot-master
03:04:06 <havocbot> oerjan:bashbot-master: cannot open `bashbot-master' (No such file or directory)
03:04:23 <moon__> its the hackego nocd situation, remember?
03:04:26 <oerjan> havocbot: file ii-1.7/bashbot-master
03:04:26 <havocbot> oerjan:ii-1.7/bashbot-master: directory
03:04:34 <oerjan> havocbot: ls ii-1.7/bashbot-master
03:04:35 <havocbot> oerjan:README:bashbot:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:commands:filters
03:04:45 <oerjan> havocbot: ls ii-1.7/bashbot-master/bashbot
03:04:46 <havocbot> oerjan:ii-1.7/bashbot-master/bashbot
03:05:01 <moon__> the script is 'bashbot' i decided not to reinvent the wheel and just modified a script by someone else
03:05:31 <oerjan> havocbot: grep "[$]@" ii-1.7/bashbot-master/bashbot
03:05:31 <havocbot> oerjan: printf "%s\r\n" "$@" >&3; }: if [[ "$@" =~ $f ]]; then:bashbot_args=("$0" "$@"): case "$@" in: builtin_reload "$@": "${builtin_commands[$cmd]}" "$@": $cmd "$@" | sed ':a;N;$!ba;s/\n/:/g': # "/bin/$cmd" "$@" | sed ':a;N;$!ba;s/\n/:/g': cd "$@"
03:05:59 <moon__> $cmd "$@" | sed ':a;N;$!ba;s/\n/:/g' is what i came up with to get rid of the endlines
03:09:31 <oerjan> nah that's about how awkward that is in sed
03:09:44 <oerjan> joining lines is _not_ fun
03:14:14 <moon__> say something if you are alive
03:15:21 <moon__> ima install the stage3 tarball so you all can use gcc
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03:16:18 <moon__> actually, i think its easier to get the tarball over irc
03:16:22 <moon__> havocbot: wget distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/20160607/stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
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03:16:42 <moon__> oh boy my network is lsow
03:17:46 <moon__> someone give my internet a hug
03:17:58 <moon__> you can do stuff while the tarball downloads i think
03:18:02 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src:stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
03:18:36 <moon__> dont touch the tarball
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03:26:15 <oerjan> i think something locked up temporarily on this server
03:26:26 <oerjan> but it eventually resolved. i think.
03:27:33 <oerjan> the server i'm irc'ing via
03:27:47 <oerjan> (not an irc server, a linux server)
03:28:00 <oerjan> now i need some food ->
03:28:21 <moon__> you think you could make a better irc script for havoc? it can be in either bash or python
03:31:37 <moon__> havocbot is still kinda glitchy, but it works
03:31:46 <quintopia> you'd be less lonely if you renamed it bruce
03:37:44 <trn> weev/moot 2020!
03:37:59 <trn> or maybe esr/rooshv
03:39:23 <oerjan> moon__: i think i've used more time on this bot than i wanted to at this time.
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03:58:58 <HackEgo> `? is the command to query wisdom entries.
03:59:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/can't//can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. The list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand draft enhance example fast father glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't st
03:59:52 <HackEgo> lastfiles | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
03:59:59 <HackEgo> hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n"
04:01:40 <shachaf> `mkx bin/before//([[ -n "$1" ]] && echo "$1" || lastfiles) | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
04:02:25 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:02:25 <quintopia> huh. pronouncing all of those with a ɑː is kind of fun
04:02:59 <shachaf> `sled bin/lastfiles//s/$/ "$@"/
04:03:02 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" "$@"
04:03:43 <shachaf> `sled bin/before//s/files/files "$@"/
04:03:47 <HackEgo> bin/before//lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
04:03:59 <HackEgo> bin/before//lastfiles | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
04:04:37 <HackEgo> share/test//share/test: no such file in rev 9345cfdfdd22
04:04:39 <shachaf> `sled bin/lastfiles//s/....$/-- "$@"/
04:04:42 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
04:05:31 <shachaf> Hmm, is something wrong there?
04:05:55 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:06:47 <shachaf> Of course -r -2 doesn't do what I want.
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04:10:36 <HackEgo> line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
04:11:16 <shachaf> `sled bin/before//s/-2/"$(hg log --template '{rev}\\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)"/
04:11:19 <HackEgo> bin/before//lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
04:11:33 <HackEgo> wisdom/`?//`? is the command to query wisdom entries.
04:11:53 <shachaf> Of course now it'll run three hg commands.
04:13:29 <oerjan> `learn Politics: See lies.
04:13:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'politic': Politics: See lies.
04:13:48 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `politic': No such file or directory
04:13:54 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/politic{,s}
04:18:51 <HackEgo> Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
04:19:30 <shachaf> `learn Politics are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Politic groups
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04:38:53 <\oren\maidcafe> someone make a esolang where もえもえきゅーん is a valid program
04:42:04 <\oren\maidcafe> pikhq how about if the hiraganna have to make it into the parser
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06:35:59 <myname> can you actually refer to politics as "they"?
06:38:15 <Sgeo_> So, in bases 4 and greater, 111*111=12321. Is there a name for this sort of thing?
06:38:20 <Sgeo_> http://pastie.org/10871341
06:47:19 <oerjan> Sgeo_: i dunno but 11^n is another good one
06:47:55 <oerjan> (and sufficiently high bases)
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07:07:00 <izabera> We do but teach bloody instructions
07:07:02 <izabera> Which, being taught, return to plague th' inventor
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07:46:13 <hppavilion[1]> I think I found a solution to the utilities puzzle
07:46:51 <hppavilion[1]> But the explanation usually given leaves out a rather important bit
07:49:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47186&oldid=45215 * 192.225.214.131 * (+17) no one actually pronounces this symbol like that...it may be a claim of the author but `pronounced` implies actual real-world pronunciation
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08:05:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47187&oldid=47186 * Oerjan * (-8) Descriptivism is boring
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08:47:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Wrongtitle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47188&oldid=30193 * Hppavilion1 * (+25) Chastised people, increased informational quality, got to the root of the problem, and made it more esoteric-befitting, all in one fell sweep.
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09:17:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Wrongtitle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47189&oldid=47188 * Oerjan * (-25) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Hppavilion1|Hppavilion1]] ([[User talk:Hppavilion1|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ehird|Ehird]]
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10:00:25 <b_jonas> "<quintopia> huh. pronouncing all of those with a ɑː is kind of fun" => for most words it doesn't matter, but it's vital for "can't", because it lets you distinguish "can't do" from "can do" easily
10:00:53 <b_jonas> I usually pronounce most of those words with /ɑː/
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11:37:48 <boily> it's a porthello. I tend to be known for them.
11:38:01 <boily> witness: hellochaf.
11:48:11 <boily> don't root your digits. that seems to be the start cause of your problems hth
11:55:50 <Destructible> the main command consists of coordinates of the grid
11:57:09 <Destructible> if the grid tile is zero, the grid tile is equal to the 4 orthoganally adjacent tiles
12:01:07 <boily> extreme binary self-modifying befunge?
12:01:14 <boily> that sounds interesting.
12:03:57 <Destructible> i think it could also have a goto at the end if it's a certain value or something.
12:07:15 <Destructible> in fact, perhaps it could be the machine code for an eso comp
12:07:51 <Destructible> witha grid of bytes, numbered on x and y, instead of a single value
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12:41:08 <b_jonas> ImageMagick version 7 is released?
12:41:42 <b_jonas> what other software was released while I wasn't looking?
12:56:42 <b_jonas> Yurume_: no, sorry. Linux has lots of nice and useful development, it is important, but I don't care about the arbitrary major version number increase.
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16:45:32 <moon_> is chat dead? havocbot's logs show so
16:47:41 <moon_> aww i cant call commands still
16:47:51 <moon_> havocbot: echo unfrozenverify
16:49:13 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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16:50:52 <moon_> by the way. havocbot can be pmed
16:51:10 <prooftechnique> Though I guess what I really mean is "That is not dead which can eternal lie", but I was watching GoT earlier :|
16:51:28 <prooftechnique> Speaking specifically about oerjan's eternal lying hth
16:51:57 <moon_> maybe ybden's successful attempts at kiling havocbot? havocbot is a gentoo bot
16:52:08 <moon_> i tryed to get it on openbsd with no sucess
16:52:39 <havocbot> moon_:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src:stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
16:52:42 <prooftechnique> So it obsesses about USE flags and rices all day erryday?
16:53:09 <havocbot> prooftechnique:port=6667:chans=( "#esoteric" )
16:53:37 <moon_> well, actully, go ahead, the stuff is hardcoded
16:53:49 <moon_> havoc is written in bash
16:54:01 <moon_> and i will murder you if you killall
16:54:18 <prooftechnique> Now if I could just remember all the incantations to rebuild the kernel with some wacky flags
16:54:35 <prooftechnique> I guess there's not a ton to be done with only a stage3 tarball, but still
16:54:40 <ybden> havocbot: cat bashbot.config
16:54:40 <havocbot> ybden:nick=havocbot:server=irc.freenode.net:port=6667:chans=( "#esoteric" )
16:54:55 <moon_> the last folder inside ii-1.7
16:55:25 <moon_> where i preformed necromantic wizardry on someone else's irc bot
16:55:56 <moon_> i need to install that stage3 so we have gcc
16:56:11 <moon_> not found, idk where it is
16:56:16 <moon_> but the livecd lacks it
16:56:27 <ybden> for some unknown reason
16:56:35 <ybden> This is Gentoo. Without a compiler.
16:56:49 <moon_> thats why i have the stae3
16:56:53 <moon_> i just need to install it
16:57:12 <moon_> havocbot: tar xzjf stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
16:57:30 <moon_> havocbot: tar jf stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
16:57:45 <moon_> havocbot: tar xjf stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2
16:58:00 <moon_> you can preform cmmands in parallel, by the way
16:58:08 <moon_> thats why interactives dont cause problems
16:58:21 <moon_> xattr is not avaliable
16:58:40 <havocbot> moon_:bashbot.config:bashbot.pid:bin:echo-p:ii-1.7:mk:src:stage3-i686-20160607.tar.bz2:sys:usr
16:58:54 <moon_> just need t- its from 2015
16:59:07 <moon_> idk what is up with it
16:59:12 <b_jonas> moon_: um, shouldn't you do that only when I'm not here?
16:59:15 <moon_> but im gonna download a new one later
16:59:31 <b_jonas> like, in saturday night and morning?
16:59:33 <moon_> it will just run in the backround
16:59:43 <moon_> go ahead, use it, idk
17:00:00 <moon_> i will slap you if you open another bashbot session, tho
17:00:35 <moon_> the disk ran out of space
17:00:40 <moon_> i need to make another one >_>
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17:01:49 <prooftechnique> I predict 30 days from inception to the birth of havocbotnet from the ashes of havocbot
17:01:53 <moon_> ok, virtualbox should expand the drive this time
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17:03:08 <moon_> ill make another 8 gb drive, but ill have it be fixed, so the 8gb already exist
17:03:19 <ybden> This is highly entertaining.
17:03:56 <moon_> it turns out it didnt save anything at all
17:04:08 <prooftechnique> Kind of the nature of a livecd if you don't run the installer
17:04:12 <moon_> i lost all my mods heh
17:04:25 <moon_> and how do i do that?
17:04:56 <moon_> well reimplenting my mods will only take a second
17:06:49 <qrf> zomg Linux noob
17:07:12 <b_jonas> moon_: ah, so you are doing this correctly after all
17:07:18 <b_jonas> because it was offline when I noticed
17:09:33 <prooftechnique> qrf: Gentoo was my distro of choice for several months when the only hard drive I had was dying, and only Gentoo would get through installation and actually run on the thing. I still have no idea why
17:09:53 <asie> Gentoo is held together by magic and Python scripts
17:10:43 <qrf> I used Gentoo for a couple of years, too
17:10:45 <asie> I wonder if Gentoo has an USE flag for not crashing
17:10:47 <qrf> Switched to Arch after that
17:14:18 <moon_> what was the no endline sed command i used again?
17:16:54 -!- havocbot has joined.
17:17:23 <moon_> havocbot: echo i have been revived by necormantic wizardy
17:17:36 <moon_> wait i broke something
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17:19:12 <havocbot> moon_:bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/master.zip
17:20:38 <moon_> feel free to tinker, or break something (not on purpose tho, or i will murder you)
17:21:19 <moon_> also, note i changed the : to /
17:21:26 <moon_> i thought the : was ugly
17:21:38 <havocbot> moon_:bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/master.zip
17:21:58 <moon_> wait is that a forkbomb?
17:22:45 <moon_> funny thing tho: its not, the cpu is 1-2%
17:23:14 <moon_> my game of factorio is useing more mem
17:23:30 <havocbot> prooftechnique:core file size (blocks, -c) 0/data seg size (kbytes, -d) unlimited/scheduling priority (-e) 0/file size (blocks, -f) unlimited/pending signals (-i) 7003/max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64/max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited/open files (-n) 1024/pipe size (512 bytes, -p) 8/POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819
17:24:14 <moon_> stderr does not print here, if anyone knows how to get it to do so, i.e echoing it, please tell me
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17:27:08 <moon_> im editing it dummy
17:28:23 <moon_> ok i think it should work
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17:28:48 <moon_> havocbot: ls derpfail
17:28:48 <havocbot> moon_:ls: cannot access derpfail: No such file or directory
17:29:25 <moon_> ok, NOW you can all tinker
17:29:47 <havocbot> prooftechnique:Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at -e line 1.
17:30:01 <havocbot> prooftechnique:Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at -e line 1.
17:30:17 <havocbot> prooftechnique:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 175: :(){: command not found
17:30:29 <moon_> run it in bash silly
17:30:59 <havocbot> prooftechnique::|:&: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''/:|:&: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
17:31:03 <moon_> "$cmd" "$@" runs commands
17:31:40 <havocbot> prooftechnique:"#!/bin/bash" >> fork.sh
17:31:54 <havocbot> prooftechnique:cat: fork.sh: No such file or directory
17:32:17 <moon_> oerjan discovered a trick last night, figure it out if you can :P
17:32:30 <moon_> i need to check something
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17:33:41 <moon_> i think i forgot to strip a bash exploit protection from the original
17:34:39 <havocbot> prooftechnique:"#!/bin/bash" | tee -a fork.sh
17:35:38 <moon_> echo "#!/bin/bash" | tee -a fork.sh
17:35:52 <moon_> havocbot: bash -c ' echo "#!/bin/bash" | tee -a fork.sh '
17:36:02 <moon_> havocbot: cat fork.sh
17:36:08 <havocbot> moon_:echo: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''/echo: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
17:39:12 <prooftechnique> havocbot: awk 'BEGIN { print "#!/bin/bash" }' > fork.sh
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17:40:23 <fungot> prooftechnique: a lot of
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17:41:09 <moon__> ill write in some bash to make it add _'s later
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17:42:15 <moon__> ok proof, go ahead, tinker :P
17:42:19 <moon__> its open for bussiness
17:42:26 <havocbot> prooftechnique:cat: fork.sh: No such file or directory
17:42:30 <prooftechnique> havocbot: awk 'BEGIN { print "#!/bin/bash" }' > fork.sh
17:42:30 <havocbot> prooftechnique:awk: cmd. line:1: 'BEGIN/awk: cmd. line:1: ^ invalid char ''' in expression
17:42:59 <prooftechnique> havocbot: awk \'BEGIN { print "#!/bin/bash" }\' > fork.sh
17:42:59 <havocbot> prooftechnique:awk: cmd. line:1: \'BEGIN/awk: cmd. line:1: ^ backslash not last character on line
17:43:44 <moon__> write it, put it on pastebin, and wget it
17:43:51 <moon__> that is, until we have something mk like
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17:44:54 <moon__> i used wget alot, so there is no need checkin
17:45:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
17:46:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/echo-p
17:46:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mkx
17:48:31 <havocbot> prooftechnique:top: failed tty get
17:48:53 <havocbot> prooftechnique:grep: ': No such file or directory
17:49:07 <moon__> bad array subscript is printing on my end
17:49:26 <moon__> you ran bash unary without args
17:50:35 <moon__> havocbot: wget http://pastebin.com/raw/HgsSBDzp
17:50:36 <havocbot> moon__:--2016-06-10 03:53:39-- http://pastebin.com/raw/HgsSBDzp/Resolving pastebin.com... 104.20.64.56, 104.20.63.56/Connecting to pastebin.com|104.20.64.56|:80... connected./HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK/Length: unspecified [text/plain]/Saving to: 'HgsSBDzp'// 0K 1.26M=0s//2016-06-10 03:53:40 (1.26 MB/s) - 'HgsSBDzp' saved [62]/
17:50:48 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o echo-p http://pastebin.com/raw/HgsSBDzp
17:51:00 <havocbot> moon__:HgsSBDzp/HgsSBDzp.1/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/echo-p/master.zip
17:51:10 <havocbot> prooftechnique:--2016-06-10 03:54:13-- http://sprunge.us/CLGK/Resolving sprunge.us... 216.239.34.21, 216.239.32.21, 216.239.38.21, .../Connecting to sprunge.us|216.239.34.21|:80... connected./HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK/Length: 24 [text/plain]/Saving to: 'fork.sh'// 0K 100% 1.06M=0s//2016-06-10 03:54:13 (1.06 MB/s) - 'fork.sh' saved [24/24]/
17:51:21 <havocbot> prooftechnique:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 173: ./fork.sh: Permission denied
17:51:39 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o mk http://pastebin.com/raw/rCu7GHCY
17:52:26 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o mkx http://pastebin.com/raw/CZvHsfqv
17:52:27 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:53:25 <moon__> and you made me lose my work
17:53:42 <moon__> im adding a ignore list
17:54:40 <moon__> good, or i will have oerjan flay you alive if you bypass the ignore
17:54:52 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:55:57 <moon__> hopefully the snapshot was not lost
17:56:04 <moon__> or i will still flay you alive
17:56:38 -!- havocbot has joined.
17:56:39 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o mk http://pastebin.com/raw/rCu7GHCY
17:56:44 <moon__> wget -o mkx http://pastebin.com/raw/CZvHsfqv
17:56:58 <moon__> wget -o echo-p http://pastebin.com/raw/HgsSBDzp
17:57:11 <havocbot> moon__:bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/master.zip/mk/rCu7GHCY
17:57:24 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o mkx http://pastebin.com/raw/CZvHsfqv
17:57:33 <moon__> havocbot: wget -o echo-p http://pastebin.com/raw/HgsSBDzp
17:57:50 <moon__> you know how to change the path in gentoo?
17:58:16 <moon__> havocbot: mv mk bin/mk
17:58:32 <moon__> havocbot: mv echo-p bin/echo-p
17:58:40 <moon__> havocbot: mv mkx bin/mkx
17:58:46 <moon__> add the bin to the path for me, will you?
17:58:51 <moon__> then let me snapshot it
17:59:17 <moon__> havocbot: export #test
17:59:33 <havocbot> prooftechnique:'export PATH=bin:$PATH' >> .bashrc
18:00:12 <moon__> havocbot: bash -c echo{,$PATH}
18:00:13 <havocbot> moon__:echo/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:00:56 <moon__> idk why the not found messages stay in stderr and not here
18:01:23 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:03:57 <prooftechnique> havocbot: bash -c "echo export PATH=$HOME/bin:$PATH >> .bashrc""
18:09:05 -!- havocbot has joined.
18:09:52 <havocbot> prooftechnique:#!/bin/bash//if [ ! "$(grep nox /proc/cmdline)" ]/then/if [ -x /usr/bin/X ]/then/if [ -e /etc/startx -a $(tty) = "/dev/tty1" ];/then/rm -f /etc/startx/##STARTX/[ -f /etc/motd ] && cat /etc/motd/fi/fi/fi
18:10:14 <havocbot> prooftechnique:cat: .profile: No such file or directory
18:12:25 <havocbot> prooftechnique:--2016-06-10 03:39:08-- http://sprunge.us/HACJ/Resolving sprunge.us... 216.239.36.21, 216.239.32.21, 216.239.38.21, .../Connecting to sprunge.us|216.239.36.21|:80... connected./HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK/Length: 28 [text/plain]/Saving to: '/.profile'// 0K 100% 182K=0s//2016-06-10 03:39:08 (182 KB/s) - '/.profile' saved [28/28]/
18:13:22 <havocbot> prooftechnique:echo/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:13:52 <havocbot> prooftechnique:export PATH=$HOME/bin:$PATH
18:15:15 <havocbot> prooftechnique:GNU bash, version 4.3.33(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu)/Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc./License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>//This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it./There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
18:15:58 <havocbot> prooftechnique:echo/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:17:39 <havocbot> prooftechnique:echo/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:19:06 <havocbot> prooftechnique:cat: /etc/paths: No such file or directory
18:19:54 <zzo38> Is there command that can be used in Linux which can tell you which screen you are on?
18:20:31 <zzo38> I mean if you push CTRL+ALT+F1 and so on to switch to different screens
18:21:29 <zzo38> No it isn't, it is built-in to the kernel
18:22:34 -!- atrapado has joined.
18:23:07 <zzo38> But what I am asking is independent of X
18:25:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:26:02 <zzo38> The tty command will tell you the filename
18:26:39 <prooftechnique> Is that not enough information? What output are you expecting?
18:27:07 <moon__> wait did you fork bomb it?
18:27:08 <zzo38> But I want to know which filename is which one, so that I can program in the .profile which screen I am on and whether or not to automatically start X, so that on screen 2 I acn login without C.
18:27:52 -!- havocbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:28:19 -!- havocbot has joined.
18:28:28 <moon__> i should make a auto revive script
18:28:57 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY
18:28:59 <prooftechnique> zzo38: I don't know if the assignment of tty IDs is sequential, but if it is, that might be helpful
18:29:11 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:29:48 -!- havocbot has joined.
18:30:10 <havocbot> prooftechnique:root tty1 Jun 10 03:06/root tty3 Jun 10 03:06/root tty6 Jun 10 03:06/root tty4 Jun 10 03:06/root tty5 Jun 10 03:06/root tty2 Jun 10 03:06
18:31:02 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined.
18:31:56 <moon__> use where to verify if a dangerous command exists\
18:32:21 <havocbot> prooftechnique:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: where: command not found
18:32:25 <havocbot> b_jonas:Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on/udev 10240 4 10236 1% /dev/tmpfs 450440 61892 388548 14% ///dev/loop0 179584 179584 0 100% /mnt/livecd//dev/sr0 206652 206652 0 100% /mnt/cdrom/tmpfs 90088 396 89692 1% /run/shm 450440 0 450440 0% /dev/shm/cgroup_root 10240 0 10240 0
18:32:30 <havocbot> b_jonas:proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)/udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=10240k,nr_inodes=112063,mode=755)/devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,gid=5,mode=620)/sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)/tmpfs on / type tmpfs (rw,relatime)//dev/loop0 on /mnt/livecd type squashfs (ro,relatime)//dev/sr0 on /mnt/cdrom type iso9660 (ro,relatime)/tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (
18:32:32 <moon__> maybe where doesnt exist, haha
18:33:18 <havocbot> moon__:cdrom/gentoo/key/livecd
18:33:32 <moon__> gentoo is the secondary perm disk
18:34:13 <b_jonas> havocbot: curl -O train.jpt https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg/640px-RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg
18:34:15 <havocbot> moon__:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: ./mk: No such file or directory
18:35:06 <moon__> what is that curl doing?
18:35:22 <b_jonas> havocbot: sha1sum train.jpg
18:35:22 <havocbot> b_jonas:sha1sum: train.jpg: No such file or directory
18:35:24 <b_jonas> havocbot: sha1sum train.jpt
18:35:24 <havocbot> b_jonas:sha1sum: train.jpt: No such file or directory
18:35:39 <b_jonas> havocbot: curl -o train.jpt https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg/640px-RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg
18:35:40 <havocbot> b_jonas: % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current/ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed/
18:35:41 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY/train.jpt
18:35:43 <b_jonas> havocbot: sha1sum train.jpt
18:35:43 <havocbot> b_jonas:43a6294e385868acbdd0b669bd50f4d37da4347c train.jpt
18:35:48 <b_jonas> havocbot: mv train.jpt train.jpg
18:36:07 <b_jonas> yup, it can access the internet
18:36:24 <moon__> did i not already use wget in it? -.-
18:36:57 <moon__> which do you prefer: havocbot or hackego?
18:38:38 <b_jonas> havocbot echo 4B/mEYnkTyMJAE8AgD114LnjMcYmZSbgcKFYhaXxmec
18:38:58 <b_jonas> moon__: I'm testing if the bot works that way
18:39:06 <b_jonas> havocbot: echo STQkBp6OoS3I9dN0nOPYnfLkD1wlziD28sSzFgfuNsg
18:39:06 <havocbot> b_jonas:STQkBp6OoS3I9dN0nOPYnfLkD1wlziD28sSzFgfuNsg
18:39:09 <moon__> it works if you /query or msg it
18:39:30 <moon__> you dont even have to use havocbot: if you query or msg it
18:39:39 <b_jonas> havocbot: echo 4m+6MAU3 bJ9qF1UX
18:40:20 <b_jonas> havocbot: (c=Ra3AsMCi; echo MD0NxVx9 ${c:0:4} SwInWdjo
18:40:20 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: (c=Ra3AsMCi;: command not found
18:40:30 <b_jonas> havocbot: bash -c (c=Ra3AsMCi; echo MD0NxVx9 ${c:0:4} SwInWdjo)
18:40:31 <havocbot> b_jonas:echo: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
18:40:33 <b_jonas> havocbot: bash -c '(c=Ra3AsMCi; echo MD0NxVx9 ${c:0:4} SwInWdjo)'
18:40:33 <havocbot> b_jonas:echo: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''/echo: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
18:40:49 <b_jonas> I'll have to make a script so I can run any command
18:41:26 <moon__> maybe lets make /mnt/gentoo/bin a perm path dir to store commands in
18:41:35 <moon__> havocbot: mkdir /mnt/gentoo/bin
18:41:39 <havocbot> prooftechnique:emacs: invalid option -- '-'/usage: emacs [-n] [-f mode] [+number] [file ...]
18:42:20 <moon__> havocbot: ls /mnt/gentoo/bin
18:42:27 <moon__> havocbot: ls /mnt/gentoo/
18:42:36 <moon__> that bin dir is permnate
18:42:40 <moon__> it will never be deleted
18:43:17 <havocbot> prooftechnique:emacs: invalid option -- 'b'/usage: emacs [-n] [-f mode] [+number] [file ...]
18:43:27 <havocbot> prooftechnique:emacs: invalid option -- '-'/usage: emacs [-n] [-f mode] [+number] [file ...]
18:43:30 <moon__> that is unless i get rid of the gentoo drive (;
18:43:42 <moon__> so please put magical scripts in there
18:44:08 <havocbot> prooftechnique:emacs: invalid option -- '-'/usage: emacs [-n] [-f mode] [+number] [file ...]
18:44:22 <b_jonas> havocbot: is it in the path?
18:44:22 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: is: command not found
18:44:29 <b_jonas> moon__: is it in the path?
18:45:00 <moon__> you can view the path with echo{,$PATH} and nothing
18:45:03 <b_jonas> moon__: never mind, we'll find out soon
18:45:22 -!- hwpplayer1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
18:45:25 <moon__> thats the emacs that came with it
18:45:55 <int-e> "mg — emacs-like text editor"
18:46:11 <havocbot> prooftechnique:emacs is /usr/bin/emacs
18:46:34 <int-e> http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-5.6/man1/mg.1
18:46:35 <havocbot> prooftechnique:No manual entry for emacs/No manual entry for |/No manual entry for head
18:47:19 <prooftechnique> If I can't execute abitrary elisp, what's the point of living?
18:47:20 <int-e> (slightly surprisingly, googling "[-n] [-f mode] [+number] [file ...]" worked)
18:48:21 <b_jonas> havocbot: curl -o /mnt/gentoo/bin http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/cu
18:48:22 <havocbot> b_jonas: % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current/ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed/
18:48:26 <havocbot> prooftechnique:which: no emerge in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4)
18:48:39 <b_jonas> havocbot: cu ZWNobyAiaGVsbG8sIHdvcmxkIg
18:48:40 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: cu: command not found
18:48:45 <moon__> gentoo lacks emerge for no reason
18:48:51 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobyAiaGVsbG8sIHdvcmxkIg
18:48:52 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu: No such file or directory
18:49:04 <moon__> havocbot: ls /mnt/gento/bin
18:49:05 <havocbot> moon__:ls: cannot access /mnt/gento/bin: No such file or directory
18:49:11 <b_jonas> havocbot: curl -o /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/cu
18:49:12 <havocbot> b_jonas: % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current/ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed/
18:49:13 <moon__> havocbot: ls /mnt/gentoo/bin
18:49:15 <b_jonas> havocbot: cu ZWNobyAiaGVsbG8sIHdvcmxkIg
18:49:15 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: cu: command not found
18:49:18 <havocbot> prooftechnique:2to3/2to3-2.7/2to3-3.4/[/a2p/a2x/a2x.py/aconnect/acpi_listen/addr2name/alsamixer/alsaucm/amidi/amixer/aoss/aplay/aplaymidi/apm/apmsleep/apropos/arch/arecord/arecordmidi/arpd/asciidoc/asciidoc.py/aseqdump/aseqnet/aserver/avivotool/awk/b2/b43-fwcutter/base64/basename/bashbug/bc/bjam/bzcmp/bzdiff/bzegrep/bzfgrep/bzgrep/bzip2recover/bzless/bzmore/c2ph/c89/c99/c_rehash/cal/calc_tickadj/captest/captoinfo/catchsegv/catman/cha
18:49:19 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobyAiaGVsbG8sIHdvcmxkIg
18:49:19 <havocbot> b_jonas:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu: Permission denied
18:49:29 <b_jonas> havocbot: chmod -v a+x /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu
18:49:29 <havocbot> b_jonas:mode of '/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
18:49:32 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobyAiaGVsbG8sIHdvcmxkIg
18:49:32 <havocbot> prooftechnique:ls: cannot access /usr/bin/emerge: No such file or directory
18:49:47 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu cHdkOyBlY2hvICRQQVRI
18:49:47 <havocbot> b_jonas:/root//usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:50:03 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu cHdkOyBlY2hvICIgICIgJFBBVEg
18:50:03 <havocbot> b_jonas:/root/ /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
18:50:11 <havocbot> prooftechnique:bin/make.conf/make.conf.catalyst/make.conf.old/make.profile/package.mask/package.use/postsync.d/repo.postsync.d/savedconfig
18:50:14 <b_jonas> executes a base64-encoded string with bash by the way
18:50:40 <moon__> next up: make it user friendly!
18:50:58 <b_jonas> eg. make another bot that does the base64-encoding and writes to havocbot
18:51:20 <havocbot> prooftechnique:accessdb/acpid/addgnupghome/addpart/alsa-info.sh/alsactl/apmd/applygnupgdefaults/backup-tar/backup.sh/biosdecode/build-docbook-catalog/cgdisk/chat/checkarray/chgpasswd/chpasswd/cracklib-check/cracklib-format/cracklib-packer/cracklib-unpacker/crda/create-cracklib-dict/delpart/dmevent_tool/dmidecode/dmraid/dosfsck/dosfslabel/dump-remind/e2freefrag/e4defrag/etc-update/ethtool/exportfs/fatlabel/filefrag/fix_libtool_files.s
18:51:30 <b_jonas> moon__: I'll copy it to some directory in the path if possible though
18:51:59 <moon__> surely you can base64 encode a command to add it to the path
18:52:12 <b_jonas> moon__: um, but that will persist only in the subshell, so that's pointless
18:52:27 <b_jonas> moon__: I'll check first if any of those directories in the path are writable
18:52:28 <prooftechnique> You can base64 encode a command to write to the profile
18:52:56 <b_jonas> well, it could be worth a try
18:53:01 <prooftechnique> I don't think so. I tried, but it doesn't seem to work
18:53:08 <havocbot> prooftechnique:export PATH=$HOME/bin:$PATH
18:53:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47190&oldid=47174 * Qwertyu63 * (+1382)
18:53:36 <int-e> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu W91bnQgfCBjdXJsIC1GICdzcHJ1bmdlPTwtJyBodHRwOi8vc3BydW5nZS51cw==
18:53:36 <havocbot> int-e:bash: line 1: $'[\335[\235\b\037\b\030\335\233\b\vQ\210': command not found
18:53:40 <moon__> doesnt bashrc need a reboot?
18:53:41 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: well, worst case is I just copy it to /root and invoke it as ./cu
18:53:50 <int-e> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bW91bnQgfCBjdXJsIC1GICdzcHJ1bmdlPTwtJyBodHRwOi8vc3BydW5nZS51cw==
18:53:51 <havocbot> int-e: % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current/ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed/
18:54:40 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
18:54:59 <havocbot> prooftechnique:/mnt/livecd/usr/lib/python-exec/python2.7/emerge//mnt/livecd/usr/lib/python-exec/python3.4/emerge//mnt/livecd/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/portage/tests/emerge//mnt/livecd/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/portage/tests/emerge
18:55:05 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gbHMgLWxkICRwO2RvbmU
18:55:05 <havocbot> b_jonas:ls: cannot access /usr/local/sbin: No such file or directory/ls: cannot access /usr/local/bin: No such file or directory/drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 3223 Aug 4 2015 /usr/sbin/drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 11193 Aug 4 2015 /usr/bin/lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Jun 10 03:05 /sbin -> /mnt/livecd/sbin/lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Jun 10 03:05 /bin -> /mnt/livecd/bin/ls: cannot access /opt/bin: No such file or directory/ls: cannot access /usr/i
18:55:13 <int-e> havocbot: curl --version
18:55:14 <havocbot> int-e:curl 7.43.0 (i486-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.43.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1p zlib/1.2.8/Protocols: dict file ftp ftps gopher http https imap imaps pop3 pop3s rtsp smtp smtps telnet tftp /Features: IPv6 Largefile NTLM NTLM_WB SSL libz TLS-SRP UnixSockets
18:55:46 <moon__> gentoo is just the drive name
18:56:13 <moon__> shall we try a stage tarball?
18:56:23 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1
18:56:23 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
18:56:29 <moon__> put it in the gentoo drive tho
18:56:39 <int-e> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bW91bnQgfCBjdXJsIC1zRiAnc3BydW5nZT08LScgaHR0cDovL3NwcnVuZ2UudXM=
18:56:44 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O2VjaG8gIiBzdWNjZXNzICRwIjticmVhaztkb25lO2RvbmU
18:56:51 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `done'/bash: -c: line 0: `IFS=:;for p in $PATH;do if cp -vt "$p" /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu;echo " success $p";break;done;done'
18:57:25 <moon__> this base64 system really helps actually
18:58:50 <int-e> moon__: anyway it wasn't downloading, it was posting to sprunge... but apparently that curl is verbose by default
18:59:38 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O2VjaG8gIiBzdWNjZXNzICRwIjticmVhaztkb25lO2RvbmU
18:59:38 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `done'/bash: -c: line 0: `IFS=:;for p in $PATH;do if cp -vt "$p" /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu;echo " success $p";break;done;done'
18:59:53 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O2VjaG8gIiBzdWNjZXNzICRwIjticmVhaztmaTtkb25l
18:59:53 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `fi'/bash: -c: line 0: `IFS=:;for p in $PATH;do if cp -vt "$p" /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu;echo " success $p";break;fi;done'
19:00:18 <moon__> for best results on somehting lon
19:00:35 <b_jonas> havocbot:/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O2VjaG8gIiBzdWNjZXNzICRwIjticmVhaztmaTtkb25l
19:00:46 <b_jonas> moon__: yes, but this isn't long
19:00:54 <b_jonas> moon__: sorry, I'm just slow because of real life stuff
19:01:06 <b_jonas> so the space is required too?
19:01:14 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O2VjaG8gIiBzdWNjZXNzICRwIjticmVhaztmaTtkb25l
19:01:15 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `fi'/bash: -c: line 0: `IFS=:;for p in $PATH;do if cp -vt "$p" /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu;echo " success $p";break;fi;done'
19:01:21 <moon__> oh, dont write to root, by the way
19:01:23 <prooftechnique> Also, there must be a better way to deal with all this than $@ :|
19:01:33 <int-e> havocbot: cp /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu /
19:01:39 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: don't worry, we'll bootstrap one
19:01:42 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: just give us time
19:01:50 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: it has unrestricted net access, we can upload a new bot
19:02:12 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: I might do it, or int-e might, but like I said, real world stuff intervenes
19:02:16 <prooftechnique> I think we could make the bots fight for dominance over the havocbot personality
19:02:23 <moon__> yea, im terrible at even necromancy on someone elses bot
19:02:30 <b_jonas> so why's that a syntax error? oh missing then
19:02:32 <int-e> I won't. But may I say that this looks like an insanely stupid idea...
19:02:38 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gaWYgY3AgLXZ0ICIkcCIgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluL2N1O3RoZW4gZWNobyAiIHN1Y2Nlc3MgJHAiO2JyZWFrO2ZpO2RvbmU=
19:02:39 <havocbot> b_jonas:cp: failed to access '/usr/local/sbin': No such file or directory/cp: failed to access '/usr/local/bin': No such file or directory/'/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu' -> '/usr/sbin/cu'/cp: cannot create regular file '/usr/sbin/cu': Read-only file system/'/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu' -> '/usr/bin/cu'/cp: cannot create regular file '/usr/bin/cu': Read-only file system/'/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu' -> '/sbin/cu'/cp: cannot create regular file '/sbin/cu': Read-o
19:02:52 <b_jonas> int-e: which idea looks like that?
19:03:08 <int-e> havocbot: /cu ZWNobyBIaQ==
19:03:17 <int-e> running such an unrestricted bot.
19:03:30 <moon__> its in virtualbox and i host no servers
19:03:30 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gLWYgIiRwL2N1IiAmJiBscyAtbGQgIiRwL2N1IjtmaTtkb25l
19:03:31 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `fi'/bash: -c: line 0: `IFS=:;for p in $PATH;do -f "$p/cu" && ls -ld "$p/cu";fi;done'
19:03:35 <prooftechnique> int-e: I already predicted 30 days from inception to botnet, and that was hedging my bets by a very wide margin
19:03:38 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gLWYgIiRwL2N1IiAmJiBscyAtbGQgIiRwL2N1Ijtkb25l
19:03:38 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found/bash: -f: command not found
19:03:48 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gdGVzdCAtZiAiJHAvY3UiICYmIGxzIC1sZCAiJHAvY3UiO2RvbmU=
19:04:06 <int-e> moon__: the problem is the unrestricted net access
19:04:08 <moon__> if its broken, i revive from a snapshot of a almost untouched version
19:04:21 <int-e> it's open to abuse
19:04:32 <b_jonas> int-e: yep, start to install our botnets
19:04:41 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu SUZTPTo7Zm9yIHAgaW4gJFBBVEg7ZG8gdGVzdCAtZiAiJHAvY3UiICYmIGxzIC1sZCAiJHAvY3UiO2RvbmU7ZWNobyBub3QgZm91bmQ=
19:04:50 <moon__> generally, i will snapshot back if someone decides to do such a thing
19:05:04 <moon__> or even just dump the net access
19:05:18 <b_jonas> moon__: yes, that's why I STARTED with a universal interpreter
19:05:28 <b_jonas> so that everything else becomes easier to bootstrap without net access
19:05:42 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bHMgLWxGIH4vLio=
19:05:44 <havocbot> b_jonas:-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 113 Aug 4 2015 /root/.bash_profile/-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 221 Aug 4 2015 /root/.bashrc/-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jul 28 2015 /root/.keep/-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 28 Jun 10 03:39 /root/.profile///root/.:/total 140/-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 48 Jun 10 03:24 CZvHsfqv/-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 62 Jun 10 03:24 HgsSBDzp/drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 140 Jul 23 2012 bashbot-master//-rw-r--r-- 1 root roo
19:05:57 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bHMgLWxkRiB+Ly4qIHwgdHIgXFxuIFwg
19:06:01 <moon__> if net access gets out of hand, i will take it off
19:06:12 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu bHMgLWxkRiB+Ly4qIHwgdHIgXFxuIFwg
19:06:26 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu bHMgLWxkRiB+LyogfCB0ciBcXG4gXCA=
19:06:36 <moon__> by putting it in root you are wasting hardware memory
19:06:43 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bHMgLWxkRiB+Ly4qIHwgdHIgXFxuIFwg
19:06:45 <moon__> anything in root is directly on the ram
19:07:06 <b_jonas> havocbot: ls -l /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu
19:07:07 <havocbot> b_jonas:-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 108 Jun 10 04:15 /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu
19:07:42 <moon__> you have mem left, go ahead
19:07:43 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bHMgLWxkRiB+Ly4qIHwgdHIgXFxuIFwg
19:08:00 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZnJlZQ==
19:08:01 <havocbot> b_jonas: total used free shared buffers cached/Mem: 900880 281268 619612 62412 25540 191768/-/+ buffers/cache: 63960 836920/Swap: 0 0 0
19:08:15 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZnJlZSB8IHRyIFxcbiBcIA==
19:08:31 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu Y3AgLXZpIC9tbnQvZ2VudG9vL2Jpbi9jdSAvY3U=
19:08:37 <moon__> you could write code to cycle through each line
19:08:46 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu ZnJlZSB8IHRyIFxcbiBcIA==
19:08:49 <moon__> to make certain outputs easier to read
19:08:58 <int-e> havocbot: df /mnt/gentoo/bin | tail -1
19:08:58 <b_jonas> moon__: sure, we could do that later
19:08:58 <havocbot> int-e:df: invalid option -- '1'/Try 'df --help' for more information.
19:09:18 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu Y3AgLXZpIC9tbnQvZ2VudG9vL2Jpbi9jdSAvY3U=
19:09:33 <int-e> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZGYgL21udC9nZW50b28vYmluIHwgdGFpbCAtMQ==
19:09:34 <havocbot> int-e:tmpfs 450440 62012 388428 14% /
19:09:40 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobywgaGk=
19:09:49 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobyBoaQ==
19:10:01 <int-e> moon__: as you can see, putting it in / is no worse than putting it in /mnt/gentoo/bin
19:10:16 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZWNobyBoaQ==havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu Y3AgLXZmIC9tbnQvZ2VudG9vL2Jpbi9jdSAvY3U=
19:10:16 <havocbot> b_jonas:bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `)'/bash: -c: line 0: `echo hiþiíþ§¶?n)ÿrcp -vf /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu /cu'
19:10:25 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu Y3AgLXZmIC9tbnQvZ2VudG9vL2Jpbi9jdSAvY3U=
19:10:25 <havocbot> b_jonas:'/mnt/gentoo/bin/cu' -> '/cu'
19:10:38 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu ZnJlZQ==
19:10:38 <havocbot> b_jonas: total used free shared buffers cached/Mem: 900880 281912 618968 62412 25592 191892/-/+ buffers/cache: 64428 836452/Swap: 0 0 0
19:11:07 <b_jonas> ok, now let's make it one more convenient, by redirecting stderr to stdout, transliterating newlines to spaces, and adding "No output." if there's no output
19:11:10 <int-e> look also at the mounts: http://sprunge.us/iALY ... anything writeable seems to be a tmpfs.
19:11:12 <moon__> if im reading that correctly, thats the explination
19:12:58 <b_jonas> moon__: and if you're worried about the RAM, then we could create a swap file somewhere
19:12:58 <b_jonas> moon__: where should we put the large files?
19:13:27 <moon__> thats where large files go
19:13:42 <int-e> it breaks the internet
19:13:52 <moon__> internet access and root
19:14:19 <b_jonas> at least so it seemed to me
19:14:20 <prooftechnique> But wacky command handling, so it took like half an hour to fork bomb it to death
19:14:20 <b_jonas> ok, then just transliterate the newlines to spaces or something
19:14:21 <b_jonas> or let's just upload a better irc bot
19:14:22 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:14:31 -!- havocbot has joined.
19:14:46 <moon__> newlines already go to spaces b_jonas
19:14:50 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined.
19:15:51 <moon__> current system state can now be recovered
19:15:52 -!- cnr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
19:15:59 -!- cnr has joined.
19:15:59 -!- cnr has quit (Changing host).
19:15:59 -!- cnr has joined.
19:16:02 <b_jonas> havocbot: /mnt/gentoo/bin/cu bHMgfCB0ciBcXG4gXCA=
19:16:02 <b_jonas> wait, you brought it down?
19:16:02 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu bHMgfCB0ciBcXG4gXCA=
19:16:13 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
19:16:16 <havocbot> prooftechnique:which: no cu in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4)
19:16:50 <int-e> havocbot: which perl
19:17:01 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu bHMgfCB0ciBcXG4gXCA=
19:17:14 <int-e> have we fork bombed the thing?
19:17:29 <havocbot> prooftechnique:cat: fork.sh: No such file or directory
19:17:41 <prooftechnique> Oh, but it didn't get snapshotted, for obvious reasons
19:18:01 <havocbot> prooftechnique:Unrecognized switch: -r (-h will show valid options).
19:18:15 <moon__> DO YOUWANT ME TO FLAY YOU ALIVE?
19:18:16 <havocbot> prooftechnique:Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at -e line 1.
19:18:35 <int-e> havocbot: /cu OigpeyA6fDo7fTs6
19:18:44 <moon__> its "$cmd" "$@" 's fault
19:18:51 <b_jonas> havocbot: /cu dW5hbWUgLWE=
19:19:18 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: don't worry, we can just upload a new irc bot
19:19:19 <int-e> I think it's busy.
19:19:40 -!- havocbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:19:40 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: we have root, we can install anything
19:19:58 <moon__> *flays prooftechnique and prepares the ignore list, as he broke his promise*
19:20:02 <prooftechnique> I just think portage would make our lives easier in the quest to fuck up this bot
19:20:47 <int-e> assumptions, assumptions.
19:20:55 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: you can curl then chmod anything
19:21:27 <moon__> now, can i flay you alive prooftechnique?
19:21:35 <prooftechnique> moon__: If it gave me that error message, it didn't work, moon__
19:22:14 -!- havocbot has joined.
19:22:31 <int-e> havocbot: file /cu
19:22:32 <havocbot> int-e:/cu: Perl script, ASCII text executable
19:22:37 <int-e> havocbot: sleep 86400
19:22:45 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
19:23:00 <int-e> havocbot: ps | grep sleep
19:23:00 <havocbot> int-e:error: garbage option//Usage:/ ps [options]// Try 'ps --help <simple|list|output|threads|misc|all>'/ or 'ps --help <s|l|o|t|m|a>'/ for additional help text.//For more details see ps(1).
19:23:32 <int-e> havocbot: /cu cHMgfCBncmVwIHNsZWVw
19:23:33 <havocbot> int-e:14838 tty1 00:00:00 sleep
19:23:34 <moon__> but sometimes they cause my bot to fall like a rock -.-
19:23:56 <moon__> the livecd always had it
19:24:51 <int-e> how else do you kill a linux system, hmm
19:25:07 <moon__> or i will make a ignore list
19:25:17 <prooftechnique> Next steps are escaping the VM and touching moon__'s precious files
19:25:33 <int-e> havocbot: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mem
19:25:46 <moon__> i never gave it external perms
19:26:00 <moon__> so that will be kinda hard :P
19:26:05 <moon__> ill prepare a landing pad
19:26:13 <prooftechnique> moon__: I'm willing to bet there's an open CVE that doesn't care what you set :D
19:27:04 <moon__> funfact: none exist for the latest version as of now
19:27:57 <moon__> critical error occured
19:28:22 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:28:59 <int-e> prooftechnique: I had never tried that command before ;)
19:29:35 <moon__> please dont do it again
19:29:54 <int-e> but it should, eventually, scrub the memory of something important... kernel, init, process tables, or some page tables, who knows.
19:30:00 <moon__> until you all stop the antics, no snapshots
19:30:00 -!- havocbot has joined.
19:30:15 <moon__> because everyone is spamming :P
19:30:30 <prooftechnique> havocbot: wget -O msfinstall https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/master/config/templates/metasploit-framework-wrappers/msfupdate.erb
19:30:38 <havocbot> prooftechnique:--2016-06-10 04:43:33-- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/master/config/templates/metasploit-framework-wrappers/msfupdate.erb/Resolving raw.githubusercontent.com... 23.235.40.133/Connecting to raw.githubusercontent.com|23.235.40.133|:443... connected./HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK/Length: 5394 (5.3K) [text/plain]/Saving to: 'msfinstall'// 0K .....
19:30:49 <moon__> havocbot: rm -f msfinstall
19:31:12 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
19:31:22 <moon__> ill happily cut the network access
19:31:30 <shachaf> havocbot: cat /dev/zero > /dev/mem
19:31:46 <prooftechnique> havocbot: /cu Y3VybCBodHRwczovL3Jhdy5naXRodWJ1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20vcmFwaWQ3L21ldGFzcGxvaXQtb21uaWJ1cy9tYXN0ZXIvY29uZmlnL3RlbXBsYXRlcy9tZXRhc3Bsb2l0LWZyYW1ld29yay13cmFwcGVycy9tc2Z1cGRhdGUuZXJiID4gbXNmaW5zdGFsbCAmJiBcDQogIGNobW9kIDc1NSBtc2ZpbnN0YWxsICYmIFwNCiAgLi9tc2ZpbnN0YWxs
19:31:47 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/msfinstall/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
19:31:47 <havocbot> prooftechnique: % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current/ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed/
19:31:56 <havocbot> moon__:CZvHsfqv/HgsSBDzp/bashbot-master/bashbot.config/bashbot.pid/bin/master.zip/msfinstall/rCu7GHCY/train.jpg
19:31:57 <int-e> shachaf: > just turns into an argument for cat
19:32:04 <moon__> havocbot: rm msfinstall
19:32:13 <int-e> shachaf: which is the point of all the cu business... and why I used dd
19:32:35 <moon__> i willl kill network access
19:32:36 <shachaf> int-e: I've been trying to avoid reading this bot and channel because it's so spammy and annoying.
19:32:48 <havocbot> prooftechnique:which: no msfconsole in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4)
19:33:04 <havocbot> prooftechnique:which: no ruby in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4)
19:33:24 <moon__> and no metaexploit, damnit
19:33:34 <b_jonas> moon__: um, if it gets too noisy, you could move the bot to #esoteric-blah
19:33:44 <prooftechnique> Metasploit is a totally innocent tool for benevolent security researchers
19:34:03 <moon__> staph trying to invade my internet
19:34:18 <int-e> moon__: nobody is invading
19:34:21 <int-e> moon__: you opened the door
19:34:48 <shachaf> Yes, please move the bot to #esoteric-blah.
19:34:55 -!- havocbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:36:05 <prooftechnique> havocbot: sed -i.back 's/esoteric/esoteric-blah/g' bashbot.config
19:36:48 <b_jonas> int-e: bot will move to #esoteric-blah
19:36:48 <int-e> moon__: also you should realize that what you've seen so far has been benign... nobody tried to escape the virtual machine.
19:37:59 <moon__> its up in esoteric-blah
19:38:09 <int-e> (I'm discounting prooftechnique's metasploit download because I suspect it would have run out of memory on the tmpfs soon)
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19:42:15 <prooftechnique> I can probably reduce it, though. I think there are some minimal shims out there
19:42:45 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: moon__ said there's a hard disk or something mounted, so you can create a swap file and swapon it
19:42:51 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: RAM shouldn't be a problem
19:43:12 <moon__> gentoo and one other idk the name of
19:43:37 <int-e> b_jonas: http://sprunge.us/iALY ... unless that has changed...
19:50:26 <ybden> HackEgo: rm bashbot.pid
19:51:17 <ybden> < moon__> ill happily cut the network access ← you should really be more careful with this
19:52:19 <ybden> Phantom_Hoover: depends when
19:53:01 <shachaf> And manganese and mercury and ybden and magnesium, / Dysprosium and scandium and cerium and cesium
19:53:31 <ybden> hmm, that reminds me of something
19:55:12 <ybden> shachaf: What is the context?
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19:57:07 <ybden> shachaf: thine two prior messages
19:58:18 <ybden> shachaf: I presume they were in reference to something, however?
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20:38:48 <moon__> havocbot is alive in #esoteric-blah
20:38:49 <shachaf> ybden: and manganese and mercury, molybdenum, magnesium
20:47:15 <moon__> shachaf, not many people are using havoc, can i bring it back here while keeping it in esoteric-blah at the same time?
20:47:48 <int-e> I would prefer it to stay away, fwiw
20:47:59 <int-e> it's highly distractign
20:48:53 <shachaf> That would be my preference too.
20:49:13 <HackEgo> 1/3:675) <Phantom_Hoover> There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. <Phantom_Hoover> At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. \ 225) <zzo38> If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is
20:49:18 <HackEgo> 2/3:a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. \ 1121) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. \ 485) <elliott> Deewiant: How do you go through life without seeing at least one gaping a
20:49:22 <HackEgo> 3/3:nus, that's what I want to know \ 1215) <GeekDude> Most of the time I have no idea what this channel is doing <GeekDude> the other half I still have no idea \
20:49:36 -!- int-e has set topic: #esoteric-blah is wreaking havoc | The intradisciplinary hub of solidity matrices, esoteric programming language design, and font forging | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
21:00:36 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: blerp: not found
21:07:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nasaldemons: not found
21:09:01 <moon__> i just snuck that command on havoc without anyone noticing using my terminal, wana try it out? :P
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21:29:24 <hppavilion[1]> Not ones that convert everything into 3D-legible graphics that work nicely for pathetic 3D beings like myself
21:29:40 <hppavilion[1]> An engine that renders everything in its full, 4-dimensional glory
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22:37:16 <int-e> hmm, Snakebird (silly name, in the current "staff pick" humble bundle) has surprisingly hard levels
22:38:27 <int-e> (contrary to the common case which seems to be that even when people come up with good game mechanics they fail to use them to their full potential)
22:38:57 <int-e> moon__: if you ask a more articulate question I might answer :P
22:39:19 <moon__> which do you prefer: havocbot or hackego?
22:39:42 <int-e> but what does that have to do with the "huh" above?
22:40:05 <moon__> you said ask a question (=
22:40:23 <int-e> it's sane (you don't have root so the temptation to just crash it doesn't come up), it's snapshotted, and it's well entrenched in #esoteric culture and history
22:40:28 -!- augur has joined.
22:41:04 <int-e> I'm living up to my end of the bargain and answering.
22:41:10 <ais523> is havocbot a hackego variant with less sandboxing?
22:41:28 <moon__> Havoc uses a diffrent script, thats for certain
22:41:35 <moon__> no code based relations to hackego
22:42:00 <moon__> if you want to look at it, its in #esoteric-blah
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22:53:02 <moon__> wait why did it join here? i thought i commented that out!
22:53:21 -!- havbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:54:04 <ais523> I hope it's at least running in a VM
22:54:28 <ais523> OK, so if someone decides to write zeroes all over the hard drive, at least you aren't losing anything
22:54:28 <moon__> i dont trust you all with my pc :P
22:54:42 <moon__> plus the livecd is readonly
22:55:06 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, i mean it's not any more dangerous than running it on a disposable physical machine
22:55:12 <moon__> so the livecd would get away too
22:55:30 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: most peolpe don't have disposable physical machines though
22:55:45 <ais523> (I did for a while, my students were using them to test kernel-mode keyloggers)
22:55:50 <Phantom_Hoover> idk, i have an rpi that has never seen any meaningful use
22:55:53 -!- havocbot has joined.
22:55:58 <ais523> I /marked/ them in a VM though :-)
22:56:28 <moon__> if it gets spammy, ill take it out
22:56:56 <ais523> havocbot: grep -R esoteric / 2>/dev/null
22:57:00 <moon__> you mean: havocbot: cat /dev/urandom
22:57:02 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: I think it wants a colon
22:57:22 <int-e> havocbot: killall cat # this is going to work!
22:57:24 <moon__> havocbot: echo im not dead!
22:57:24 <ais523> maybe it's joining #esoteric, but not listening to it
22:57:40 <ais523> my command should logically take a while
22:57:57 <ais523> was planning to see where it was joining #esoteric and edit that bit out :-D
22:58:07 <havocbot> Phantom_Hoover:§ö;Ës;[Qò¿RÍ쨪£ÌákZtp+Oà¢%M uãEy²lhµÓªßECZpÑBæÕ@AúùÂî¡^.Az7,¨3ôÊJ²=\£÷YOЩdÁݦØÁ¦ÆèÒM²ÔüÅ}¥7Û®{ÙNûøDСU£míïË| ·.ÁÃþË0Øg£H*0.Ã"èyt@ìÌf³¼·rQD5m¶nJE/"{2iQ²îFKÜØ»/É1Ec\Hòi§$y®<7¹¹23ÞØvË1=TÇx\/¸Ù~ÿÇ`w;t«Í63)d(ááu¸O|4y©|Uî»*Q³5JöyrÜ/¾)å<Ñô¶ÚØ´b$õçqí/üx}Äh×uæÕ;Lb(¾ÎÚ8WløkËU37fe/t߸©_Ö£$^ìÕ¥ÛïB¡³¾)07ðÞý5]
6±ò¢§ú7Î|ê¥
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22:58:25 <^v> omg fuck you
22:58:27 <ais523> there's no limit on the length of a line?
22:58:39 <^v> its literally cancer lol
22:58:43 <ais523> I thought you'd been pinged by that somehow
22:58:48 -!- havocbot has joined.
22:58:57 <ais523> (also why do IRC clients not filter BEL, it has no real legitimate use)
22:59:11 <moon__> besides being annoying
22:59:17 <int-e> They really should filter it.
22:59:17 <^v> im setting up my ZNC to filter it rn
22:59:38 <Phantom_Hoover> because BEL was a good idea half a century ago and unix is written by idiots?
22:59:45 <moon__> so urandom smacked you in the face?
23:00:09 <int-e> I'm running with xset -b since approximately forever
23:00:27 <int-e> (no visual bells either)
23:00:46 <zzo38> My IRC client does filter bells it just displays "G" black on purple.
23:00:56 <zzo38> (Same with any other control character it does not recognize.)
23:01:09 <Phantom_Hoover> it's almost as good as most clients interpreting NOTICE in exactly the opposite of the right way
23:01:21 <^v> hexchat has /set input_filter_beep on
23:01:37 <^v> why it isnt enabled be default
23:01:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:01:51 <moon__> count how many showed up in the urandom zzo38
23:02:17 <zzo38> And NOTICE isn't interpreted in any special way on my computer.
23:02:25 <Phantom_Hoover> like the spec explicitly says it's for bot replies and yet it's appropriated for channel-wide pings by several clients
23:02:31 <zzo38> moon__: I found three
23:03:17 <ais523> actually, I have an idea
23:03:25 <int-e> who's complaining?
23:03:27 <ais523> let's persuade all major bots to send all replies as notice
23:03:30 <qrf> I will hunt you down
23:03:32 <qrf> And kill you
23:03:32 <ybden> Phantom_Hoover: argh please don't do that
23:03:36 <ybden> it makes my client go ping
23:03:39 <moon__> also, ais, the bot has 15gb of data for you to work with, 7 under /s and 8 under /mnt/gentoo
23:03:45 <ais523> and the problem will fix itself in a few weeks :-D
23:03:46 <qrf> Incidentally, I have no special notices for notices
23:03:55 <int-e> qrf: you joined this silly channel out of your own volition.
23:03:58 <qrf> I encountered them randomly just now
23:04:02 <zzo38> tbden: Complain to whoever wrote the client; it is their fault not Phantom_Hoover
23:04:15 <ybden> that cat /dev/urandom looks interesting
23:04:18 <ais523> wait, since when did irssi ping on notices?
23:04:24 <moon__> havocbot: cat /dev/urandom
23:04:35 <ais523> ybden: it's just sending random bytes to IRC
23:04:49 <ais523> (a mix of true-random and cryptosecure pseudo-random)
23:04:51 <ybden> ais523: yeah. It somehow had several colour codes and blinking
23:05:15 <ais523> well, any message has the potential of being sent by random data
23:05:17 <ybden> < shachaf> ybden: and manganese and mercury, molybdenum, magnesium ← I got that one
23:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> that's because irc uses non-ascii bytes to encode colour and blinking
23:05:20 <moon__> urandom = almost always a irc wakeup call
23:05:25 <ais523> but color codes and blinking are only a few bytes long
23:05:31 <ais523> so they're highly likely to be hit by chance
23:05:37 <ais523> like, color is two bytes IIRC
23:05:48 <zzo38> In client I use it won't ring the bell unless you push a wrong key or there is a /F rule that tells it to ring the bell (by default no /F rules are defined).
23:06:18 <ais523> ^bf +++.++[->++++++++++<]>.
23:06:24 <ais523> wait, need to actually put a message after it
23:06:31 <ais523> ^bf +++.++[->++++++++++<]>.,[.,]!This is a test
23:06:37 <moon__> anyone able to kick havocbot?
23:06:39 <ais523> what color is that? I have color turned off on my client
23:06:49 <ais523> is it not capable of quitting of its own accord?
23:07:00 <ais523> kicking it won't disconnect it from the server
23:07:13 <ais523> (this is a mistake new bot writers frequently make)
23:07:21 <ybden> < ais523> (also why do IRC clients not filter BEL, it has no real legitimate use) ← irssi seems to actually interpret it and ping explicitly, given that it makes a different sound to my normal terminal beep
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23:08:06 <ais523> I mean, I can kick it – given that it's annoying several people here, doing so would probably be justified – but it wouldn't help you fix the freeze
23:08:12 <ais523> and as seen there, most likely it was just a ghost
23:08:19 <ais523> left after you killed the process
23:08:26 <fizzie> There's a "bell_beeps" setting flag in irssi.
23:08:40 <ybden> I should maybe change that
23:08:59 <ais523> ybden: I'd recommend it, this channel ends up with random BELs sent to it way too often
23:09:03 <ybden> Phantom_Hoover: agreed, irssi is definitely not the best
23:09:05 <ais523> most commonly as a result of people running brainfuck programs
23:09:07 <moon__> directly echoing urandom is now against havocbot's rules :P
23:09:22 <ais523> given that a few more beeps surely can't cause that much more harm
23:09:30 -!- moon__ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
23:09:40 <ybden> ais523: to be perfectly honest, I've only really had BELs from people sending them purposefully (from nc, telnet, etc.)
23:09:43 <ais523> hmm, maybe fungot has protection from that nowadays
23:09:43 <fungot> ais523: make it " ( char") " fnord"
23:09:53 <fungot> .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐ ...
23:10:03 <ais523> if you start at ctrl-a, the whole thing becomes a ctcp ;-)
23:10:14 -!- moon_ has joined.
23:10:40 <ais523> for me, the whole ASCII table is italic and crosse out
23:10:40 <moon_> echoing urandom is now against havocbot's rules
23:10:44 <zzo38> Only ^J and ^M are filtered out (which is a requirement of IRC anyways), it look like?
23:10:47 <ais523> and a few of the control characters echoed
23:11:03 <ais523> actually it's surprising that neither the ^J nor ^M ended the line
23:11:22 <ais523> looks like IRC servers genuinely do look for both together
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23:12:00 <int-e> hmm, what's ^O doing...
23:12:18 <fizzie> ais523: fungot explicitly replaces \r and \n with a '.'.
23:12:18 <fungot> fizzie: cool. how big's the smallest bf code that says fnord
23:12:20 <zzo38> int-e: At least my implementation has it to cancel all formatting codes
23:12:28 <ais523> fizzie: that's explain the .s I see
23:12:32 <ais523> does it also filter out bel?
23:12:40 <ais523> (bel doesn't do anything on my client, so I can't directly tell)
23:12:55 <moon_> ill implent a filter for havoc soon
23:12:58 <ais523> hmm, this reminds me of a problem in libuncursed
23:12:59 <zzo38> I can tell; only ^M and ^J are converted to . and everything else remains as is
23:13:18 <ais523> some terminals get into a state where they're waiting for some character, possibly BEL
23:13:20 <int-e> <fungot> ^DEHI.KL.NPQRSTUWXYZ\^ ...
23:13:20 <fungot> int-e: sadly there isn't one
23:13:24 <fizzie> I've had filtering out ^A on the to-do list for a long time now.
23:13:25 <ais523> and rather than send BELs and annoy the users of all other terminals
23:13:45 <ais523> I send a few KB of NULs to cancel out when the buffer gets full :-D
23:14:06 <int-e> (the ^D is my doing... irssi uses(or used?) it internally to encode colors... and doesn't filter it from messages coming from irc)
23:14:25 <ais523> hmm, I didn't receive a CTCP from fungot there
23:14:30 <ais523> oh, we probably have a +C ban
23:14:47 <ais523> and that one was placed specifically to capture stray Ctrl-As from bots
23:15:04 <ais523> thus if you ask a bot to output a bunch of random info and it happens to contain a ctrl-a
23:15:10 <ais523> the message gets deleted by Freenode itself
23:15:40 <int-e> I'd expect it to only eat messages that start with ^A?
23:16:23 <ais523> int-e: well according to the IRC spec you can put a ctcp in the middle of another message
23:16:41 <ais523> ^bf ,.>+.,[.,]+.!xVERSION
23:16:53 <ais523> my client doesn't parse it as a CTCP though, it just echoes the whole thing
23:17:00 <zzo38> I am not quite sure either, but my client implements it.
23:17:01 <ais523> so this is part of the spec that is apparently routinely ignored
23:17:51 <ais523> also, I'm amused that we're still mentioning the matrix of solidity in the topic
23:17:52 <zzo38> Are you able to see if fungot received a NOTICE? My client automatically sent one.
23:17:53 <fungot> zzo38: instead of just including and extend?"
23:19:10 <zzo38> OK. Did it receive from anyone else or only from me?
23:19:22 <fizzie> staffehn also replied with a version reply.
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23:19:55 <zzo38> Well, so this kind of implementation is seem rare anyways, but does exist.
23:20:06 <fizzie> Quassel IRC v0.8.0 and PHIRC:0.9 from them and you, respectively.
23:20:42 <fizzie> Oh, there's a third one (BitchX-1.1-final+) from Alcest. But that's all.
23:23:41 <fizzie> Incidentally, the ^J-or-^M filtering is implemented particularly for the brainfuck ., not more generally than that. Fortunately you can't make Underload output any symbols that weren't in the input, and you can't get either of them into the input.
23:25:07 <fizzie> (Lines 303-304, ":a-:3-" and some tests.)
23:26:17 <fizzie> In retrospect, I think I could've saved a couple of instructions by just *ing those together and testing once, rather than testing both separately.
23:26:53 <ais523> now I'm trying to work out if there are any numbers other than 10 and 13 for which (x-10)*(x-13) is 0
23:27:01 <ais523> clearly there aren't if you're using bignum integers
23:27:04 <ais523> but computer arithmetic is bounded
23:27:40 <fizzie> Yes, but in this case 0 <= x <= 255, and the computation itself is done as a 32- or 64-bit signed integer.
23:28:28 <ais523> yes, in that case it's going to be correct
23:29:09 <ais523> hmm, let y = x-13, then we're checking for y(y+3) = 0, but 3 is odd
23:29:24 <ais523> thus if we're checking for y(y+3) = 2**n in bignum arithmetic
23:29:39 <Phantom_Hoover> <ais523> also, I'm amused that we're still mentioning the matrix of solidity in the topic
23:29:42 <ais523> the only solutions are for y or y-3 to be 0 modulo 2**n, as they can't both be even
23:29:44 <izabera> http://tiffzhang.com/startup
23:29:49 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean we're locked in there, it's not like we're getting out any time soon
23:33:44 <ais523> hmm, looks like esolangs.org is the top hit for "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity", and some of the other top hits are esotericism sites, but not all
23:33:47 <ais523> e.g. http://allariewindows.com/products/patio-door/ is pretty high up
23:34:22 <ais523> strangely it doesn't mention matrices anywhere
23:34:42 <ais523> although all the other words in the phrase are there, scattered in random parts of the page
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23:43:07 <moon_> for google, the top hit is the logs
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23:43:59 <ais523> moon_: google's search results depend on who's searching though
23:44:07 <ais523> have you used google to search the #esoteric logs before now?
23:44:19 <ais523> if you do it a lot, google will likely return them for any query that's sufficiently relevant
23:49:53 <moon_> havocbot: /cv bmFzYWxkZW1vbnM=
23:51:39 <moon_> i guess it doesnt wana
23:52:14 <moon_> havocbot: cv ZWNobyB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdGVzdCBvZiBjdiBhbmQgaXRzIGJhc2U2NCBpbnB1dA0K
23:52:15 <havocbot> moon_:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: /cv: No such file or directory
23:52:25 <moon_> havocbot: /cv ZWNobyB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdGVzdCBvZiBjdiBhbmQgaXRzIGJhc2U2NCBpbnB1dA0K
23:52:25 <havocbot> moon_:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: /cv: No such file or directory
23:53:13 <moon_> i should cp it back
23:53:23 <moon_> havocbot: cp /s/bin/cv /cv
23:53:23 <havocbot> moon_:./bashbot-master/bashbot: line 170: /cv: No such file or directory
23:53:44 <moon_> i moved the wrong one.
23:54:20 <moon_> havocbot: cu ZWNobyB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdGVzdCBvZiBjdiBhbmQgaXRzIGJhc2U2NCBpbnB1dA0K
23:54:21 <havocbot> moon_:this is a test of cv and its base64 input
23:55:51 <shachaf> What happened to people preferring that havocbot leave?
23:56:07 <moon_> i broke a thing, im working on it :P
23:56:16 <moon_> esoteric got back in the list for some reason
23:57:20 <moon_> i think i fixed it
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23:58:26 <ybden> < moon_> echoing urandom is now against havocbot's rules ← are these rules enforced in any manner, or are you just hoping that we don't?
23:58:32 <moon_> my appolagies shachaf
23:58:44 <moon_> ill implent something soon
00:00:07 <moon_> all hope until i add filters
00:00:16 <moon_> how do i list processes and their ids?
00:01:05 <moon_> someone gave it a rogue grep
00:01:37 <moon_> aka grep based forkbomb
00:02:14 <Phantom_Hoover> you need a timeout like HackEgo has or this sort of denial of service will be inevitable
00:02:27 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:02:42 <moon_> whats a good way to implent that?
00:05:43 <ybden> < moon_> aka grep based forkbomb ← ooh, what was that?
00:05:46 <moon_> the one i found also kills a hanging thread
00:05:52 <moon_> i just found the process
00:06:10 <ybden> moon_: forkbomb would imply there were a great many processes
00:06:14 <ybden> moon_: do you know what the command was?
00:06:43 <moon_> killed it and all my cpu usage fell from 67% to 2%
00:06:49 <moon_> ill see if its in the logs
00:07:01 <ybden> moon_: that's not a forkbomb
00:07:04 <ybden> moon_: that's just grep
00:07:22 <ybden> moon_: if there were a forkbomb, it would be 100% CPU and it wouldn't respond
00:15:07 <moon_> the command was preforming a full system search
00:17:59 <moon_> ybden, if you want to tinker, havocbot is in #esoteric-blah
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00:33:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47191&oldid=47190 * Qwertyu63 * (+73)
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00:35:24 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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00:50:23 <moon_> shachaf: kick havoc for me pls
00:54:22 <moon_> quin, use him in #esoteric-blah
00:55:09 <moon_> phantom needs you in #esoteric-blah
01:00:22 <Phantom_Hoover> if he was online don't you think he would have seen the ping in #esoteric-blah
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01:12:23 <moon_> Havoc has full command support, th
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01:13:09 <MDude> I wonder why in IBNIZ, why vp1+10*x1+10*q%?1 exhibits behavior that seems to rely on time.
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01:14:13 <MDude> What I was trying to do is generate an image in which the top row has every pixol lit, the second topmost row has every other pixel lit, and the third topmost every third, etc.
01:14:20 <quintopia> IBNIZ pushes the time onto the stack every frame
01:14:46 <moon_> prooftechnique: havoc is in #esoteric-blah if you wana mess with it
01:16:09 <MDude> tyx is what the documentation says.
01:16:37 <MDude> Plus it works for other porgrams like vp^
01:17:59 <MDude> It might eb that I'm misunderstanding the coordinate system.
01:18:38 <MDude> Since what I'm trying to do is make each coordinate into a integer representing the pixel offset from top left.
01:18:58 <MDude> But if I have the scale or offset wrong then it won't work right.
01:20:01 <MDude> What's odd to me is that what I've written seems to produce tiny blue dots to blink even though nothing should blink if time is popped at the start.
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01:26:33 <moon_> can i brin havocbot back to esoteric?
01:27:14 <MDude> It also makes a distict hum for some reason.
01:27:45 <oerjan> moon_: it was a bit noisy
01:28:18 <oerjan> i think we have a channel for bot testing somewhere
01:28:20 <moon_> it was being used a lot
01:28:31 <moon_> its currently in #esoteric-blah
01:28:42 <moon_> but i think i can shorten its output to 255 bytes
01:28:49 <moon_> which is around hackego's limit
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01:29:41 <oerjan> the noise wasn't so much about the output as about all the failed experiments.
01:29:53 <moon_> it runs fairly well now
01:30:10 <moon_> with good bash interface and a drive
01:30:34 <oerjan> well i have a bad feeling about this, so probably don't ask me in the first place.
01:32:00 <MDude> There is a #bots chennel with a topic of "Maybe we're bots, maybe we're not.".
01:32:19 <prooftechnique> moon_: Are your partitions and fstab set up in a sensible way? I rather dread trying to partition it for a Gentoo install via bot
01:32:39 <moon_> b_jonas set them up
01:33:10 <prooftechnique> Not that I know anything about b_jonas's partitioning habits
01:34:05 <moon_> oerjan: is that a 'i can try and if it gets noisy remove it', a 'yes', or a 'no'
01:34:42 <oerjan> if you keep asking it will eventually turn into a "no" hth
01:34:56 <moon_> ok, ill take its not a no
01:35:18 <shachaf> I would prefer that it not be here.
01:35:47 <shachaf> I don't think "useful" is necessary or sufficient for being in this channel.
01:35:49 -!- havocbot has joined.
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01:36:26 <oerjan> . o O ( havocbot: hcf )
01:37:06 <moon_> use killall bash next time
01:37:09 <ais523> now I'm wondering how easy it is to set a modern computer on fire through software
01:37:22 <int-e> right now the bot is only useful for abuse, and we already have fungot for that ;)
01:37:23 <fungot> int-e: the fnord dsa host key was generated in under two seconds, the base is the number of
01:38:44 <moon_> shachaf: just wondering: whats your reasoning for not wanting it? out of curiosity
01:39:19 <moon_> command output size too large?
01:39:28 <moon_> im asking to improve it :P
01:40:11 <shachaf> Takes up too much vertical space.
01:40:24 <moon_> how many chars would fit on a line?
01:40:31 <int-e> It causes secondary noise as well.
01:41:16 <shachaf> By vertical space I mean the number of lines it produces, and the number of lines it causes in other ways.
01:41:29 <moon_> it trims out all newlines
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01:42:59 <moon_> is Lord_of_Life new?
01:45:12 <moon_> and how are the other lines made shachaf?
01:45:50 <moon_> hackego gains the same problem >_>
01:47:25 <moon_> hackego _and_ havocbot both are interactive
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01:49:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cryptoleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47192&oldid=47042 * 75.161.81.91 * (-17) Removed the third-level heading at the top of the page
02:01:02 <prooftechnique> HackEgo is also familiar and a known quantity. havocbot is a root session with network access
02:05:09 <moon_> maybe once thats done it might be safer?
02:06:07 <moon_> anyways, proof, there's a bin folder on the path now
02:07:00 <moon_> and your cded into the drive /s
02:07:04 <moon_> which contains the bin folder
02:09:03 <moon_> someone put 'nasaldemons' in the bin folder -.-
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02:20:07 <moon_> Nasaldemons have proven the perfect path addon testsubject
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02:28:07 <oerjan> <moon__> someone kick havocbot <-- fwiw kicking it will only remove it from this channel, so the nickname will still be occupied.
02:30:03 <oerjan> to actually be able to force it to quit from inside irc, it needs to be registered, which means you need a password which might be a little tricky to keep where no one can see it.
02:31:17 <oerjan> well when it's locked up but not quitting by itself, that is.
02:32:07 <moon_> i ment just to get it out of this channel
02:32:52 <oerjan> well it was unresponsive, i assume.
02:32:58 <oerjan> but it pinged out anyway.
02:32:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
02:40:30 <HackEgo> Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
02:41:08 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/moon//s/a/a murderous/
02:41:13 <HackEgo> wisdom/moon//Moon is a murderous person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
02:43:30 <oerjan> the evidence is all there in the logs hth
02:44:07 <oerjan> <moon__> or i will still flay you alive
02:44:15 <oerjan> just the last one i've seen so far
02:44:39 <moon_> i HAVE flayed prooftechnique for crashing havoc once
02:46:47 <moon_> however i have killall bash 'd havoc for updates
02:47:17 <prooftechnique> You know you only have to source .bash_profile right? You don't have to kill the whole bash process, in general
02:47:40 <moon_> im a bash failure, idk
02:48:08 <moon_> i gave havocbot mk
02:48:20 <moon_> its the perfect allround tool :P
02:50:51 <quintopia> do you know ant 'wegians whove never been to the canary islands?
02:55:43 <oerjan> mind you, my aunt lives there much of the year.
02:56:46 <moon_> i know ants who havent been to america
02:57:13 <moon_> just wait, ants will make minicars soon enough
02:57:26 <moon_> ++++ Out of cheese error ++++
02:57:46 * oerjan is reminded by Simak's "City"
02:58:23 <moon_> thats from Terry Pratchet's science of diskworld, dummy
02:58:58 <oerjan> well both kinds were intelligent, i believe.
02:59:41 <moon_> i ment the out of cheese error
03:01:35 * oerjan somehow stopped reading pratchett at some point, but peeked enough at science of discworld to assume that's a Hex error message.
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03:03:26 <moon_> havocbot is in stable condition
03:03:33 <moon_> as far as i know at least
03:03:59 <ais523> oerjan: moon_: I thought HEX only used /three/ + signs
03:04:06 <ais523> maybe I'm wrong though
03:04:14 <moon_> its hard to remember
03:04:18 <moon_> ill consult the book
03:05:14 <moon_> its funny how the Out of cheese error turned up in realworld system
03:06:24 <HackEgo> 240) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
03:06:34 <hppavilion[1]> I think that might be a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_isolation?
03:06:36 <moon_> `quote out of cheese error
03:07:03 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: BTW, could you choose a consistent nick and stick to it/
03:07:06 <moon_> `quoteadd +++ Out of cheese error +++
03:07:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found
03:07:22 <moon_> `addquote +++ Out of cheese error +++
03:07:25 <HackEgo> 1280) +++ Out of cheese error +++
03:07:34 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Also, when your time out and reconnect and thus have a different nick, try to remember to change back to your main nick when it disconnects
03:10:42 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
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03:12:18 <HackEgo> Destructible: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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03:13:52 <ais523> hmm, I keep being surprised at people turning up at 2am UTC and wondering why nobody is around (in many channels, not just this one)
03:14:31 <pikhq> It's only 19:14 in America/Los_Angeles.
03:16:56 <ais523> pikhq: however, I find the UK small hours tend to be a particularly quiet time online for some reason
03:17:04 <ais523> it may be that it's too late in the UK and too early in the US
03:18:51 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> I think that might be a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_isolation? <-- almost certainly not.
03:19:45 <ais523> ofc, it's also possible that my interests are correlated with those of British people (seeing as I'm British), and thus I'm seeing an atypical nationality balance
03:20:41 <HackEgo> *poof* +++ Out of cheese error +++
03:21:07 <HackEgo> quoteformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two.
03:23:04 <moon_> oh hi Destructible,
03:24:54 <oerjan> mind you, i would probably have deleted it even if it were correctly formatted.
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03:25:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin
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03:29:46 <ais523> oerjan: how do spaces work around an elision if you elided only a few words from a message? `? quoteformat doesn't say
03:34:20 <oerjan> i'm not sure you're supposed to do that.
03:37:30 <shachaf> Why would that elision be treated differently?
03:38:27 <oerjan> `` quote django | tail -n 1
03:38:31 <HackEgo> 1233) <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
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03:40:55 <HackEgo> 1/6:260) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 305) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 306) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsne
03:42:41 <moon_> shachaf, would adding a timer to havoc's I/O help?
03:43:09 <shachaf> The reason it's noise is that I don't care about it.
03:43:16 <moon_> only one way to find ou- ...
03:43:50 <moon_> so generally it has a purpose
03:46:11 <moon_> Yea, others use the bot on there own
03:46:25 <moon_> why i said like idk
03:48:04 <moon_> is there any point at all to the linux 'yes' command?
03:48:10 <moon_> all it does is spam y
03:48:50 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
03:49:16 <moon_> `yes but it certainly gives a message
03:49:17 <HackEgo> but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \ but it certainly gives a message \
03:49:37 <moon_> i dont get the point
03:49:58 <moon_> a better name would be 'spam'
03:51:03 <moon_> im running it on my end
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04:03:01 <zzo38> Why does my computer support only one colormap?
04:03:44 <oerjan> because it's meta-racist
04:04:05 <moon_> i wonder if that deserves a quote
04:04:56 <moon_> `addquote <zzo38> Why does my computer support only one colormap? <oerjan> because it's meta-racist
04:05:00 <HackEgo> 1280) <zzo38> Why does my computer support only one colormap? <oerjan> because it's meta-racist
04:06:12 <moon_> next up: reach quote 9001 (yes i am alking about a old joke)
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04:11:19 <moon_> `head -c 1M </dev/urandom #Scream with me!
04:11:20 <HackEgo> head: 1M </dev/urandom #Scream with me!: invalid number of bytes
04:11:29 <moon_> `head -c 10000 </dev/urandom #Scream with me!
04:11:29 <HackEgo> head: 10000 </dev/urandom #Scream with me!: invalid number of bytes
04:11:35 <moon_> `head -c </dev/urandom #Scream with me!
04:11:36 <HackEgo> head: </dev/urandom #Scream with me!: invalid number of bytes
04:11:45 <moon_> `cat /dev/urandom #Scream with me!
04:11:46 <HackEgo> cat: /dev/urandom #Scream with me!: No such file or directory
04:11:51 <HackEgo> â§ô|?µf.æÙ÷8"H¸(vëÚ¾[¤#-?#Þb*ÔÑY¸ÂXðÍö|ªJLÏ@b õbíôÁ"õZVBhó|¾òcnyh \ dWÍF.>ú1Û;'ãd.î×~,2-¨5_éqà)Ì#YÄÚ:ɳÉÌAìtÍz5áîìÛôYÖc)=£WZmÐáru§ÀJÑTlëÜT^X4}?ÑÆ"O
eA5MEùU,:ÿ9»bÌØ£bÎFæBõ=¬_£ \ 6ëp·q]nRiÀ
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04:14:16 <moon_> ok back to my game of factorio
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04:31:54 <izabera> stty setaf <number> produces \e[3<number>m
04:32:14 <izabera> but on sun-term on solaris in virtualbox i can't see anything beyond the first 8 colors
04:33:29 <izabera> but bright red messes shit up
04:35:38 <izabera> bah there's something funny going on
04:51:30 <zzo38> High-end computers should be able to support more than one colormap.
04:52:20 <zzo38> It already has OpenGL and that stuff but not more than one colormap.
04:56:00 <zzo38> I am not so sure that I should even need OpenGL?
05:02:52 <zzo38> I am writing a compiler to target Z-machine codes in JavaScript. I already wrote many parts of it and hopefully would be good when it is finish. I hope you like this? (It uses an assembly language code to write the code; you cannot compile a JavaScript code or C code or ZIL code or anything like that. But, extensions to the program could add the support for others too.)
05:05:05 <zzo38> You can then try to invent the esoteric programming language to compile into a Z-machine code too, possibly the existing one or the not exist one
05:06:21 <zzo38> Am I too confusing?
05:08:05 <quintopia> you're writing a compiler in js that compiles to z-machine?
05:09:01 <zzo38> Its own format which uses assembly language for writing the instructions in a function, but the rest of the file is in a different format.
05:09:59 <zzo38> Hopefully that is now understandable better?
05:11:43 <quintopia> so you expect that others will write an assembler to turn other languages into this format?
05:12:49 <zzo38> Maybe; I don't know.
05:13:09 <zzo38> Possibly it can help if you want to compile a program written in BASIC into a Z-machine code.
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05:53:02 <HackEgo> smlist 440: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
05:53:08 <HackEgo> smlist 441: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
05:53:14 <HackEgo> smlist 442: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
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06:10:07 <oerjan> `learn peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections.
06:10:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'peer': peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections.
06:10:43 <shachaf> HackEgo: Didn't he review some of Ørjan's publications?
06:11:15 <shachaf> I bet that's why you don't like him.
06:11:24 <shachaf> Also what's with the capitalization?
06:11:32 <shachaf> I mean, not that I care. But I thought you had standards.
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06:12:22 <shachaf> Or is it required because his name is written in lowercase in the IRC message?
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06:12:59 <oerjan> shachaf: yep that was my thinking
06:13:09 <shachaf> I used to think that Peer Gynt was a composer.
06:13:23 <oerjan> no, that's Edvard Grieg hth
06:13:45 <shachaf> it was an egriegious error
06:14:46 <shachaf> Apparently Peer isn't actually a troll, either.
06:14:46 <oerjan> although https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P01EqXn7mik
06:15:05 <oerjan> shachaf: well he had a troll education
06:15:39 <shachaf> I can't listen to audio right now.
06:15:46 <shachaf> Is the link just the well-known piece?
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06:17:19 <shachaf> I guess Peer Gynt and Per Martin-Löf have related names?
06:20:24 <shachaf> `le/rn per martin-löf/"per Martin-Löf" is a common citation lazy logicians use when they don't want to prove their theorems. It rarely gets past peer review.
06:21:26 <shachaf> oerjan: Peter and The Wolf are another famous couple of composers, I suppose.
06:22:07 <shachaf> although, whoa whoa whoa, peter and the wolf is from 1936?
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06:45:52 <Cale> :(){ :|: & };:
06:46:33 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
06:48:08 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w)
06:48:42 <Destructible> so, could you have a look at this thing please. it's multiplayer, if it could be considered playing
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06:49:08 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
06:49:22 <Destructible> I'm interested in it, but it doesn't seem to have people on it
06:52:43 <Destructible> are you still there, or am I entirely uninteresting?
06:53:41 <oerjan> Destructible: i'm not really interested, but to be honest i find this pushy way of asking quickly _reduces_ my interest even if i have one.
06:54:17 <prooftechnique> Also the lack of link makes it sort of hard to know which version of the concept you're talking about
07:00:49 <Destructible> I just want to see stuff, and make use of the multiplayer thing
07:02:32 <prooftechnique> This looks just like the regular genetic cars, and the chat doesn't seem to do anything
07:03:23 <prooftechnique> I mean, it's neat, but it's not exactly a participatory activity
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07:55:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: blerp: not found
08:15:57 <FreeFull> Write a bot that helps me decide on a good starting spot in Dwarf Fortress
08:17:54 <izabera> which starting spots are there?
08:46:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Walri would never contribute to something so obscenely evil
08:46:28 <HackEgo> peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections.
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10:25:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47193&oldid=47166 * Sesshomariu * (+33) /* Examples */
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14:25:08 <int-e> waiting for... the punchline
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14:26:25 <qrf> int-e haha
14:26:28 <qrf> It took me ages to get it
14:28:01 <Destructible> I don't get it. e is a number that is not an integer?
14:32:48 <qrf> int-e is a user in this channel
14:33:39 <boily> Dellostructible, int-ello.
14:33:53 <boily> qrf sadly is unporthelloable... what should it be?
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14:35:02 <qrf> I'm not following
14:35:45 <boily> qrf: a porthello is a portmanteau of your name and some form of greeting mashed into it.
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15:12:22 <gamemanj> (Figuring out a good way of making "jolly good well" mix with boily is left as an exercise to the reader.)
15:12:52 <gamemanj> I'm sure it's Sunday somewhere.
15:13:22 <quintopia> sure, but here in quintoily time zone, it is saturday
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15:30:32 <int-e> okay, a minute before the godot wisdom entry was created, this happened: oerjan changed the topic of #esoteric to: Waiting for elliott | [...]
15:32:03 <int-e> (and that was 3 years ago, so I don't think there's any reason to keep it)
15:34:42 <int-e> 15:24:48 <HackEgo> godot//cf. elliott
16:12:01 <qrf> I want to implement a shitty template language to render HTML
16:12:10 <qrf> I'm not sure how much I want to support
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16:12:51 <qrf> I want to use C#'s Expression API to generate bytecode when the server is booting
16:13:41 <qrf> if statements? Sure
16:13:43 <qrf> foreach loops? Yes
16:14:16 <qrf> Expressions like x || (y.f(a, b, c) & e)? Meh
16:14:39 <qrf> I'd probably have lost interest by the time I make that work
16:14:58 <qrf> I should probably aim for less than that for now
16:23:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47194&oldid=47191 * Qwertyu63 * (-1047)
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18:38:01 <moon_> `` echo "suixoorF em guh" | rev
18:39:52 <moon_> hackego wants a hug
18:41:36 <Frooxius> Sure it's not you who wants one and is just lightly cryptic about it?
18:42:54 <moon_> im sure, im good ._.
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19:01:28 <moon_> its my job to confuzzle you
19:01:36 <moon_> wait are you new? i think you might be
19:02:43 <Frooxius> Technically not new, but mostly inactive.
19:03:52 <moon_> Then you dont get my antics :P
19:04:01 <moon_> Back to working on havocbot, then
19:04:34 <Frooxius> I was thinking for a moment if you were from a different channel.
19:20:08 <moon_> also,if you want to try my bot, go to #esoteric-blah
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20:12:14 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Cr0EWwaTk
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20:12:54 <HackEgo> numbers//Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ...
20:14:13 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/numbers
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23:24:38 <izabera> does any language in the c family implement &&= and ||= ?
23:24:56 <izabera> a &&= b would be a = a && b
23:25:50 <moon_> nope, as far as i know, nope
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23:41:03 <zzo38> I don't know any, but have occasionally wanted it both in a C code and in a JavaScript code (in JavaScript the && and || operators are somewhat different from in C; && selects the right side if the left side is true, or the left side otherwise; || selects the right side if the left side is false, and the left side otherwise). In GNU C you ca use ?: without anything in between too, similar to || of JavaScript
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23:48:15 <moon_> remember how prooftechnique (i think) pinged you with havocbot?
00:01:37 -!- boily has joined.
00:03:18 <moon_> im rnning a linux bot
00:03:45 <boily> mhelloon_! you have a bot! yay!
00:04:45 <moon_> its in #esoteric-blah
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00:22:23 <^v> moon_, you are referring to the BEL character right?
00:35:20 <izabera> did cobol use base10 numbers?
00:35:58 <izabera> i found a pdf where they say that cobol puts 0-9 in each nibble
00:45:17 <moon_> ybden (and me) just formatted the C: drive of b_jonas's termbot
00:45:57 <moon_> he said we can ruin it tho
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00:57:28 <moon_> ybden has been messing with my virtual screen over hbot :P
00:58:27 <moon_> oerjan, could i attempt to see how much usage havocbot will get in #esoteric so i can modify it to be less noisy?
00:58:49 <moon_> i dont think a experiment crew would gather in #esoteric-blah :P
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01:02:28 <hppavilion[1]> Meaning that there's also such thing as a "trilemma"
01:02:40 <hppavilion[1]> Which is significant enough to have a wikipedia page
01:02:53 <hppavilion[1]> AND it's a pretty well-documented one; not just a stub or somecuh
01:03:00 <boily> hppavellon[1], Phantom__Heloover.
01:04:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: now look at tetralemma hth
01:05:05 <hppavilion[1]> So you can also have a tetralemma, pentalemma, etc.
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01:05:54 <oerjan> boily: is nil- a greek root?
01:06:42 <Taneb> There's a popular song about someone facing an undecentumlemma
01:07:01 <boily> no idea if nil- is greek, but “nillemma” sounds neat.
01:07:21 <boily> haplolemma? sesquilemma?
01:08:33 <hppavilion[1]> dodecatolemma, ogdoölemma, hectolemma, tetratolemma, tritolemma, hemilemma, monolemma
01:08:59 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, latin has sesqui (1.5), but also quasqui (1.25) (only in certain contexts though)
01:09:03 <boily> hppavilion[1]: ogdoö???
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01:09:47 <zzo38> Knuth is said to prefer "senidenary" for Latin of group by sixteen
01:09:48 <boily> hbot: :(){ :|:& };:
01:10:24 <boily> one countilemma, ha ha ha, two countilema, ha ha ha...
01:10:55 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I would like to see advanced sesame street, with the count demonstrating countable and uncountable sets and such
01:11:54 <oerjan> aleph_zero integers, ha ha ha, aleph__zero integers, ha ha ha, aleph__zero integers, ha ha ha ...
01:12:02 <hppavilion[1]> "You must choose exactly one of the fundamental particles in the observable universe"
01:12:02 <zzo38> (Other variants mentioned are "sexadecimal", "hexadecadic", and "sedenary".)
01:12:10 <moon_> wait why did havocbot join?
01:12:45 <zzo38> "Hexadecimal" or "hex" is common so what I and others will commonly use.
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01:19:20 <oerjan> <boily> qrf sadly is unporthelloable... what should it be? <-- qrfternoon hth
01:20:59 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
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01:21:51 <shachaf> What happened to that bot being in #-blah?
01:21:56 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*hbot@*.dhcp.embarqhsd.net.
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01:22:32 <moon_> someone put a magnet to its virtual drive
01:22:54 <HackEgo> bin bin/? bin/@ bin/No bin/WELCOME bin/addquote bin/allquotes bin/calc bin/define bin/delquote bin/etymology bin/forget bin/fortune bin/frink bin/google bin/hatesgeo bin/json bin/k bin/karma bin/karma+ bin/karma- bin/learn bin/log bin/logurl bin/macro bin/marco bin/ok bin/paste bin/pastekarma bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs bin/pastenquotes bin/pastequo
01:23:14 <shachaf> I wonder whether `after would be useful.
01:23:30 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
01:23:41 <HackEgo> bin bin/? bin/@ bin/No bin/WELCOME bin/addquote bin/allquotes bin/calc bin/define bin/delquote bin/etymology bin/forget bin/fortune bin/frink bin/google bin/hatesgeo bin/json bin/k bin/karma bin/karma+ bin/karma- bin/learn bin/log bin/logurl bin/macro bin/marco bin/ok bin/paste bin/pastekarma bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs bin/pastenquotes bin/pastequo
01:23:48 <HackEgo> hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
01:24:24 <HackEgo> changeset: 121:8a04b0258775 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Mar 22 19:17:38 2012 +00000000 \ summary: <elliott> run mv bin test; touch bin
01:24:30 <shachaf> Oh. hg log doesn't log changes to files inside directories?
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01:25:09 <oerjan> 't that inconsistent with what we've seen already
01:25:21 <shachaf> Yes, something odd is going on here.
01:25:30 <HackEgo> share/test//share/test: no such file in rev 49d5a8654dd7
01:25:54 <HackEgo> changeset: 8166:bdb02b531ce0 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed May 25 22:01:44 2016 +00000000 \ summary: <shachaf> rm share/test
01:25:56 <oerjan> shachaf: well isn't that what you'd expect if it was a file creation
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01:26:11 <shachaf> But apparently it was the opposite?
01:26:15 <oerjan> hm or apparently the opposite
01:26:38 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed -l 1 share
01:26:40 <boily> qrfternoon is retrobvious.
01:26:48 <HackEgo> changeset: 8166:bdb02b531ce0 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed May 25 22:01:44 2016 +0000000 \ summary: <shachaf> rm share/test
01:26:55 <oerjan> boily: but a bit limited in usage
01:27:15 <shachaf> hg log --template '{rev}\n' share
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01:28:23 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{rev}\n' share
01:28:30 <HackEgo> 8166 \ 8165 \ 8034 \ 8009 \ 8007 \ 8006 \ 8005 \ 7993 \ 7992 \ 7991 \ 7990 \ 7986 \ 7985 \ 7984 \ 7922 \ 7921 \ 7920 \ 7884 \ 7882 \ 7879 \ 7878 \ 7866 \ 7860 \ 7859 \ 7858 \ 7854 \ 7853 \ 7846 \ 7845 \ 7839 \ 7838 \ 7755 \ 7754 \ 7753 \ 7752 \ 7751 \ 7750 \ 7749 \ 7748 \ 7747 \ 7746 \ 7745 \ 7744 \ 7743 \ 7742 \ 7741 \ 7740 \ 7739 \ 7738 \ 7737 \
01:28:45 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 8166 share/test
01:28:47 <moon_> `welcome spockers #i can verify he is new
01:28:59 <HackEgo> share/test: no such file in rev bdb02b531ce0
01:29:02 <HackEgo> spockers: #i: can: verify: he: is: new: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:29:04 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 8165 share/test
01:29:43 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{rev}\n' share | tail -n+1 | head -n1
01:29:53 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{rev}\n' share | tail -n+2 | head -n1
01:30:16 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r "$(hg log --template '{rev}\n' share | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" share/test
01:30:21 <oerjan> moon_: you need to meditate more on HackEgo's syntax twh
01:30:37 <shachaf> moon_: Why are you /msging that to me instead of sending it in the channel?
01:30:56 <moon_> `? dwgtsrezxtvrsbhmt
01:30:58 <HackEgo> dwgtsrezxtvrsbhmt? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:31:55 <moon_> spockers has a markov chain bot, which i found intresting and i thought would fit this channel
01:32:22 <oerjan> fungot: you may be up for a death match soon hth
01:32:22 <fungot> oerjan: i need a better place after the commands
01:32:25 <boily> there is only one fungot and your fungot is fungot.
01:32:25 <fungot> boily: i don't intend to. but even in my native poland he wasn't really helping anyway heh... " sports"
01:32:55 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{rev}\n' share
01:33:03 <HackEgo> 8166 \ 8165 \ 8034 \ 8009 \ 8007 \ 8006 \ 8005 \ 7993 \ 7992 \ 7991 \ 7990 \ 7986 \ 7985 \ 7984 \ 7922 \ 7921 \ 7920 \ 7884 \ 7882 \ 7879 \ 7878 \ 7866 \ 7860 \ 7859 \ 7858 \ 7854 \ 7853 \ 7846 \ 7845 \ 7839 \ 7838 \ 7755 \ 7754 \ 7753 \ 7752 \ 7751 \ 7750 \ 7749 \ 7748 \ 7747 \ 7746 \ 7745 \ 7744 \ 7743 \ 7742 \ 7741 \ 7740 \ 7739 \ 7738 \ 7737 \
01:33:08 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{rev}\n' share/test
01:33:17 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' share/test
01:33:29 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
01:33:45 <shachaf> `sled bin/before//s/log/log --removed/
01:33:50 <HackEgo> bin/before//lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
01:34:41 <HackEgo> bin bin/? bin/@ bin/No bin/WELCOME bin/addquote bin/allquotes bin/calc bin/define bin/delquote bin/etymology bin/forget bin/fortune bin/frink bin/google bin/hatesgeo bin/json bin/k bin/karma bin/karma+ bin/karma- bin/learn bin/log bin/logurl bin/macro bin/marco bin/ok bin/paste bin/pastekarma bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs bin/pastenquotes bin/pastequo
01:34:52 <HackEgo> bin bin/? bin/@ bin/No bin/WELCOME bin/addquote bin/allquotes bin/calc bin/define bin/delquote bin/etymology bin/forget bin/fortune bin/frink bin/google bin/hatesgeo bin/json bin/k bin/karma bin/karma+ bin/karma- bin/learn bin/log bin/logurl bin/macro bin/marco bin/ok bin/paste bin/pastekarma bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs bin/pastenquotes bin/pastequo
01:34:53 <HackEgo> hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
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01:35:34 <oerjan> `` hg log share/test | grep ummary
01:35:46 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed -l 1 --template '{files}\n' bin/
01:35:48 <HackEgo> summary: <shachaf> ` cp tmp/test share/test
01:36:07 <shachaf> `sled bin/lastfiles//s/log/log --removed/
01:36:12 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
01:36:28 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
01:37:06 <oerjan> `` hg log --removed share/test | grep ummary
01:37:11 <HackEgo> summary: <shachaf> rm share/test \ summary: <shachaf> ` cp tmp/test share/test
01:37:20 <oerjan> oh i was just confused
01:37:22 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" "$@"
01:37:45 <shachaf> I get the feeling we should only ever use hg log --removed, really.
01:37:45 <oerjan> shachaf: thought you'd made it, although i'd forgotten you'd renamed it
01:38:11 <shachaf> `sled bin/hoag//s/"\$@"/-- "$@"/
01:38:13 <HackEgo> bin/hoag//hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
01:38:16 <shachaf> `sled bin/hog//s/"\$@"/-- "$@"/
01:38:18 <HackEgo> bin/hog//hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
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01:40:24 <shachaf> `` hg log --template '{desc}\n' bin/hoag
01:40:31 <HackEgo> <shachaf> sled bin/hoag//s/"\\$@"/-- "$@"/ \ <shachaf> ` mv bin/ho{gue,ag}
01:40:33 <shachaf> `` hg log -f --template '{desc}\n' bin/hoag
01:40:34 <HackEgo> hexxley: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:40:34 <hexxley> hit me if one that released to desktop platform information, and creates pseudo-packages from that whole apple are you asking for when i dont know what i was not the conflict of you from the volume up it started yet
01:40:38 <HackEgo> <shachaf> sled bin/hoag//s/"\\$@"/-- "$@"/ \ <shachaf> ` mv bin/ho{gue,ag} \ <shachaf> mkx bin/hogue//hg log --removed --template "{desc}\\n" "$@" \ <shachaf> mkx bin/hogue//hg log --remvoed --template "{desc}
01:40:39 <hexxley> <shachaf> sled bin/hoag//s/\\$@/-- $@/ \ <shachaf> ` mv bin/ho{gue,ag}
01:40:57 <shachaf> moon_: Is hexxley another annoying bot of yours?
01:40:57 <hexxley> dont have cloud icon to reenable it feels better than yours?
01:41:06 <hexxley> .bucket panties hexxley hexxley panties hexxley panties today?
01:41:06 <hexxley> hexxley apparently won a firetv 4k ...
01:41:15 <spockers> it's an annoying bot of mine...
01:41:35 <shachaf> hexxley: Please go away, you're being annoying.
01:41:35 <hexxley> but yeah i'm sure third party vote is the ancient disney films terrible, not knowing who will change it away, and make anything darker i haven't been having issues with something else
01:41:38 <spockers> I can remove it though, it gets a little... excessive
01:41:38 <hexxley> \ thought mine was excessive :)
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01:42:24 <shachaf> Oh, spockers *has* a markov chain bot.
01:42:32 <shachaf> Not *is* a markov chain bot.
01:42:49 <oerjan> shachaf: [citation needed]
01:44:18 <shachaf> My apologies for thinking you're a Markov chain bot.
01:44:51 <moon_> I redirected him to #esoteric-blah for hexxley
01:48:29 <boily> shachaf: that wouldn't be the first time we have a cyborg who joined our chännel...
01:48:30 <Phantom__Hoover> spockers, why would you think having it talk after every message would be a good idea??
01:48:43 <boily> myndzi: you alive?
01:54:17 <oerjan> fungot: i think you won the death match hth
01:54:27 <fungot> boily: we speak english here.
01:54:40 <moon_> hexxley has been relocated to #esoteric-blah
01:54:41 <boily> fungot: bin oui messemble.
01:54:41 <fungot> boily: you're at berkeley, the library doesn't need to so that's cool. i'd really like to know
01:54:42 <oerjan> fungot: because your opponent was so annoying it got killed hth
01:54:43 <fungot> oerjan: but i could be wrong... never looked at the problem. 2 write down something you think it couldn't be opened
01:54:57 <shachaf> fungot: no, i'm the one who's at berkeley hth
01:55:31 <shachaf> fungot: what do you think of nuclear-free zones
01:55:32 <fungot> shachaf: ( i'm away for a second you thought you did know about scheme, i can provide a debian package
01:56:12 <oerjan> i don't approve of nuclear-free zones; without nuclei we'd not exist hth
01:56:43 <moon_> `quote <oerjan> i don't approve of nuclear-free zones; without nuclei we'd not exist hth
01:56:46 <oerjan> (in two different senses, even)
01:56:49 <spockers> Phantom__Hoover: it's a configurable percentage, set at 50% at the moment generally and 95% on mention of its nick
01:56:54 <moon_> `addquote <oerjan> i don't approve of nuclear-free zones; without nuclei we'd not exist hth
01:56:58 <HackEgo> 1281) <oerjan> i don't approve of nuclear-free zones; without nuclei we'd not exist hth
01:57:24 <HackEgo> 1/2:666) <monqy> kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list?????? \ 251) 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric. \ 338) <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water? \ 146
01:57:27 <HackEgo> 2/2:) <fungot> elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 484) <zzo38> I think Perl is a programming language too. [...] \
01:57:46 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Did you find Christ?
01:58:07 <moon_> <Sgeo_> Nope! did you?
02:05:33 <oerjan> <izabera> did cobol use base10 numbers? <-- i vaguely believe cobol has a data format description sublanguage?
02:10:36 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL#USAGE_clause
02:11:10 <oerjan> but see also the preceding sections
02:12:32 <oerjan> summary: cobol is weird.
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02:17:11 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, Cohask is weird too.
02:17:23 <shachaf> That's why we don't usually use duals of languages.
02:22:23 <moon_> i've taught hexxley how to pretend to be linux, just not very well
02:24:16 <moon_> spockers: hexxley made a file :P
02:27:16 <moon_> [21:25] <hexxley> hbot: mk dtrsd//made by hexxley yo
02:28:05 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
02:28:34 <shachaf> A version of mk that uses echo -e could be useful.
02:28:38 <moon_> hbot had mk ported to it
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02:55:23 <moon_> hexxley is getting out of hand
02:55:25 <moon_> [21:54] <autocorrect> hexxley: Bite my shiny metal ass [21:54] <hexxley> bite my shiny
02:55:42 <moon_> same thing with the autocorrect bot
03:32:08 <Sgeo_> shachaf, that quote is missing the context of it was on April 1st
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03:44:20 <zzo38> I think it would be useful to add into Node.js (but not core JavaScript) some module that includes "createWatchedWeakMap" method; this may be useful with FFI. It creates an empty weak map, but the argument is a function which is called whenever a key is garbage collected, and the argument to the function is the value corresponding to that key in the map. (Same module also include a function to explicitly cause garbage collection)
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04:39:29 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a use for the prime factorial function `n?`?
04:47:18 <zzo38> I don't know what it is
04:51:21 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: n? is the product of all prime numbers less than or equal to n
05:13:31 <hppavilion[1]> "A particularly frequent type of stripping is not-stripping" --wikipedia
05:17:01 <hppavilion[1]> English can be communicated by speech or by text. Are there any other ways?
05:17:46 <zzo38> Those are just ways of transmitting the letters though, isn't it?
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05:39:18 <Sgeo_> `slist Homestuck Volume 10 released
05:39:27 <HackEgo> slist Homestuck Volume 10 released: Taneb atriq Ngevd nvd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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05:53:59 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: there's Signed Exact English.
05:54:35 <shachaf> Sgeo_: more like Taneblist hth
05:55:14 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: so that'd be this function: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial
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07:41:35 <\oren\> I should make my own bdf to ttf conversion program
07:45:31 <\oren\> The chief problem I'm having implementing hangul is that fontforge starts to kill itself
07:46:26 <\oren\> fontforge doesn't stike me as the most tersely implemented program.
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07:54:01 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's not even true in any positional base
07:54:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: wait, was the 2 superscript
07:55:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um that's true in base 2
07:55:29 <hppavilion[1]> You can't switch bases in the middle of an equation
07:55:33 <oerjan> IF YOU HAVE TO BE NITPICKY.
07:55:46 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: in dc you can
07:55:47 <hppavilion[1]> I like how wikipedia's article for Saint Peter lists his occupation as "fisherman, clergyman"
07:55:51 <zzo38> I think the IPA symbols are illogical they are all different you need a new symbol each one, and some things cannot be represented easily or at all. I can propose a better system
07:56:00 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yes, but it has special notation to distinguish bases
07:56:25 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I think there's a reason that there are different IPA symbols for each sound
07:56:57 <\oren\> well you could make some sort of procedurally-generated symbology
07:57:33 <\oren\> but that would make it harder for me to support it in my fonyt
07:58:04 <oerjan> there are many IPA diacritics too...
07:58:21 <oerjan> and some of them seem redundant with some of the symbols.
08:00:11 <zzo38> I would do you do not need such a chart to describe them, you can just write the combine of retroflex or stop or voiced or whatever, with flipping and rotating and crossed-out and so on to indicate variation, and so on. Therefore everything is easily representing without needing to define each one individually.
08:00:14 <\oren\> my font is not so good with diacritics
08:02:03 <hppavilion[1]> "Words build bridges into unexplored regions." -- Adolf Hitler
08:02:22 <oerjan> is that an accurate quote?
08:02:58 * oerjan recalls that inaccurate quote meme from a way back
08:03:17 <oerjan> where neither of picture, text or name are matched
08:03:32 <oerjan> might still be going on, i'm no longer reading those parts of reddit.
08:04:24 <\oren\> "I didn't say most of the stuff I said" -- McJagr
08:04:40 <\oren\> There the name is also spelled wrong
08:05:28 <oerjan> well i'm not sure what the correct spelling is, too many possibilities.
08:05:54 <oerjan> \oren\: i think maybe you need a misspelling in the text too
08:06:44 <oerjan> "I didnt say most of the stuff i said" -- McJagr
08:07:31 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That one? "May the force be with you -- spock" with a picture of Dumbledore or somesuch?
08:08:15 <oerjan> oh. sorry i was in the middle of conversing with \oren\ here
08:08:43 <oerjan> UR NIKS ARE TWO SIMMILER
08:09:42 <oerjan> http://lifehacker.com/10-surprisingly-inspirational-quotes-from-evil-people-1454328362
08:10:03 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
08:10:22 <shachaf> `mkx bin/now//lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; cat "$f"; done
08:10:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: URS AN ORRENS HTH
08:11:02 <\oren\> I'm the only one here whose nick has a backslash
08:11:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WORDS HTH
08:12:01 <oerjan> BUT Y DIDNT HAKEGO ANSUR ME
08:12:08 <shachaf> HackEgo: why are you so slow tdnh
08:12:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: How could you possibly confuse us? Our names are different lengths, contain different characters, \oren\ has backslashes while I have [brackets], if any two nicks are to confuse someone it'd be yours and \oren\'s, and then only in retrospect
08:12:19 <HackEgo> cat junk/cat//cat junk/cat: no such file in rev 00959060a61f
08:13:00 <shachaf> I don't particularly like the use of "special" as an insult.
08:13:35 <\oren\> yea Dats DE OnlE rEsun I adid \ tU mI nik
08:14:05 <oerjan> i hav crayted a munster
08:14:38 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: I TRIDE VERY HARD OK
08:15:03 <hppavilion[1]> Americans saying "special" usually doesn't mean an insult; it's either what we call slow children so as not to sound offensive or tell every child they are a snowflake of quality
08:15:32 <hppavilion[1]> Then they enter the real world, and find that not everyone is going to love them and pay as much attention to them and care about their well-being as much as their mother did
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08:15:52 <hppavilion[1]> Some take it well. Others... well, you've seen tumblr
08:21:01 <\oren\> In retrospect i'm glad my parents took me traveling with them to other countries instead of going to school most years
08:22:32 <\oren\> Because what annoys me most about many of these people isn't their entitlement, it's their ignorance of the different ways of life that exist in other civilized countries from the US
08:23:46 <\oren\> They act like things that offend their tiny cultural subgorup within the US's liberal city dweller cultural group are universally bad...
08:24:24 <shachaf> I remember when I was young and learning to use computers with Microsoft Word 97. I liked the WordArt feature.
08:24:31 <shachaf> In retrospect, I was pretty entitled.
08:25:18 <\oren\> For example, nooone here in Akihabara is offended that Motoko will be played by a white woman.
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08:30:51 <\oren\> The entitlement part doesn't annoy me because I'm super entitled too.
08:31:16 <shachaf> i was actually just making a pun hth
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09:22:37 <HackEgo> Jon777: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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09:42:29 <Taneb> I'm always surprised when that happens
09:44:56 <shachaf> When you discover that this channel is about programming?
09:57:02 <qrf> Lisp-like syntax is far easier to parse than C-like expressions with infix operators and annoying precedence rules, right?
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11:14:31 <Taneb> Am I right in thinking that a topology imposes a bounded lattice on its open (and similarly closed) sets?
11:25:26 <\oren\> Taneb: *looks up lattice* sounds right to me, although i think it's a bit stronger because a topology allows infinite unions (but not infinite intersections)
11:31:24 <shachaf> Taneb: It's not just a lattice, it's a complete Heyting algebra.
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11:51:07 <Taneb> shachaf, I do not know what a Heyting algebra is
11:51:23 <shachaf> it's exactly the sort of lattice you want hth
11:51:40 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_Heyting_algebra
11:52:43 <shachaf> Or maybe you want a frame. Or a locale.
11:53:00 <shachaf> Fortunately frames and locales are just complete Heyting algebras.
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11:57:44 <shachaf> Taneb: do you invent things involving drugz
11:57:56 <Taneb> shachaf, not often
11:58:57 <shachaf> `le/rn sober space/Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them.
12:02:39 <HackEgo> LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ
12:03:22 <shachaf> `learn Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking a question about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
12:03:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'locale': Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking a question about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
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12:03:46 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJykI0BRfFV044deqERlxQ (OskarPuzzle) has now joined the prestigious ranks of those I have subscribed to
12:04:10 <\oren\> I rarely subscribe to anyone
12:15:24 <shachaf> `le/rn stone space/Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax.
12:16:07 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe I should say they were invented by Peter "Taneb" Johnstone.
12:16:12 <shachaf> Nah, enough Tanebventions.
12:17:03 <shachaf> oerjan: that wisdom entry is a pretty good start but you'll have to finish it hth
12:17:41 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/locale//s/a question //
12:17:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
12:18:00 <shachaf> He's not in this channel, but that's OK.
12:18:16 <shachaf> A logreader's work is never done.
12:18:31 <izabera> just kill all the logwriters
12:20:22 <boily> no. they bring Balance to the Wisdom.
12:20:49 <boily> without a driving force of unlatexifiable entries, without tanebventions, I lack purpose. the Wisdom shall prevail!
12:22:36 <shachaf> `learn A frame is just a complete Heying algebra. The difference is that a frame homomorphism doesn't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
12:22:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'frame': A frame is just a complete Heying algebra. The difference is that a frame homomorphism doesn't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
12:23:52 <shachaf> I assume that a Heying algebra is a more casual version of what boily studies.
12:24:10 <boily> Heying or Heyting?
12:26:43 <HackEgo> wisdom/frame//A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. The difference is that a frame homomorphism doesn't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
12:27:59 <shachaf> `sedlast s/The difference is that/However,/;s/ism doesn't/isms don't/;s/a f/f/
12:28:07 <boily> Heying algebra. indeed.
12:28:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/frame//A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. However, frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
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12:42:18 <HackEgo> pointless topology? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:45:27 <shachaf> `le/rn pointless topology//Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
12:45:35 <HackEgo> Learned «pointless topology»
12:45:36 <shachaf> i fell into the oerjan trap
12:45:44 <HackEgo> /Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
12:46:04 <shachaf> s./.. and s/.// both work here.
12:46:08 <HackEgo> wisdom/pointless topology//Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
12:49:13 <izabera> trying to compile stuff and they use -Werror and gcc stops because misleading indentation
12:50:00 <izabera> 1) report it and wait 2) fix the indentation myself hoping i get the fix right
12:51:45 <izabera> it's inside a makefile generated by their build system
12:52:13 <izabera> ok that's unlikely but it's inside something i don't know in their build system
12:54:21 <izabera> i tried with clang and it doesn't die there, but it can't compile the next file because of -Werror,-Wlogical-not-parentheses
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13:24:23 <\oren\> try removing all indentation and unnecessary whitespace
13:25:40 <b_jonas> yes, turn off -Werror, and also report it
13:27:32 <\oren\> not sure why any warnings are useful in a production build script for end users?
13:37:11 <b_jonas> oh shut UP you stupid whatever it is beeping on the street
13:37:51 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cone_of_silence: not found
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14:11:22 <ybden> izabera: also tell them to remove -Werror from their buildscripts, it's pretty silly since that compiler updates could cause it to fail
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16:14:42 <moon_> ybden: why'd u leave? if its because of spockers' hexxley bot, ill ask him to change the precentage that controls postin
16:15:10 <ybden> moon_: well, it was also because that snapshot of yours keeps creating a directory named ybden
16:15:16 <ybden> moon_: which invariably highlights me
16:15:24 <moon_> oh, ill override that
16:15:29 <ybden> provided that I don't get random pointless highlights, I'll rejoin
16:16:10 <moon_> kk, ill talk to spockers about tuning down hexxley's posting chance when he is not mentioned
16:16:58 <ybden> moon_: well, pretty much make sure it doesn't type nicks if the nick in question isn't talking to it
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17:24:25 <zzo38> I looked more at the schematics and documentation for PC CGA, it seem there is two unused address bits for the character ROM?
17:26:14 <gamemanj> those are the voodoo bits. You use them to automatically perform mystical rituals which will summon the extra 768 characters
17:27:50 <zzo38> A version that uses them could control them by bit4 and bit5 of the 0x3D9 register (which are not otherwise used in alphanumeric mode).
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17:30:24 <zzo38> gamemanj: The schematics show that one is fixed high and one is pulled up by a resistor, although the documentation suggests that one of them is controlled by a jumper.
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17:47:18 <zzo38> One bit of status register says: "The ALPHA video output signal is readable in this status bit. Its purpose is to verify that video information is being generated for RAS purposes." What does "RAS purposes" mean?
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17:48:07 <gamemanj> Probably something like "Repair And Service"
17:49:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: my guess is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability,_availability_and_serviceability_(computing)
17:51:02 <zzo38> OK, I would guess probably it is, too
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18:14:12 <zzo38> I would think that if they did use the extra address bits like I mentioned then you could add additional 320x200 and 640x100 modes without any additional logic, with sixteen colours, selectable two in a 4x2 area or a 8x1 area.
18:14:28 <boily> “You finish putting on the +0 cloak of Distant Shores {rF+ Regen+}.” aaaaw yisss
18:15:02 <b_jonas> boily: what game is that? crawl?
18:16:17 <boily> “You finish putting on the +1 hat of Duck's Teeth {rN+}.”
18:16:26 <boily> I'm so gonna die soon...
18:16:35 <boily> one positive lever of fire resistance hth
18:18:37 <boily> same, but necrotic resistance.
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18:21:41 <boily> crawl is a fun game. I'm blasting my way through the levels with explosions and sparkles and booms :D
18:21:54 <boily> rN also covers torment.
18:23:27 <b_jonas> explosions you're immune to?
18:24:45 <tswett> I'm thinking there's an easy test for whether any given piece of Java code is good or bad.
18:24:51 <tswett> Does it contain the phrase "throws Exception"?
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18:25:45 <boily> b_jonas: depends. usual stuff is harmless to my avatar. more powerful things I have to be careful.
18:26:09 <boily> tswellott. exception handling in Java is a pain.
18:26:21 <boily> I wouldn't say "throws Exception" is bad. it's just stupid.
18:27:03 <boily> "catch (Exception e)" or "catch (Throwable e)" deserves repeated application of a sturdy clue-by-four.
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18:27:51 <tswett> Now, I don't quite remember how the hierarchy of checked and unchecked exceptions and whatnot works...
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18:29:00 <boily> I don't know, and I refuse to know. only throw the most precise exceptions, only catch exactly those that you need to handle now. everything else gets rejected when I do code review, with a sticky "-2" in Gerrit.
18:29:52 <tswett> Right, so Error and RuntimeException are the unchecked base classes. Everything else is checked.
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18:30:46 <boily> I once tried to sneak a "throw new NullPointerException()" in a patchset I submitted :D
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18:31:34 <b_jonas> boily: could you review my coworkers' code that way? I need some catches gone.
18:32:46 <moon_> boily: havocbot is online
18:33:09 <moon_> and you can tear it apart (just not the /s drive)
18:35:59 <tswett> And Error is supposed to be only for error conditions of the JVM, leaving you RuntimeException for when you want some kind of unchecked exception.
18:37:25 <moon_> boily: ybden beat you to it
18:38:38 <moon_> the bot interface and the main gentoo linux is still online
18:38:47 <moon_> even after virtual drive damage
18:39:36 <ybden> moon_: there you go
18:44:26 <zzo38> The modification to CGA that I suggested could be used to add a graphics mode similar to MSX but higher resolution and without sprites. (Wikipedia says MSX 1 can use two colours in each 8x1 area.)
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19:04:18 <boily> Koen_: how's the Euro?
19:04:56 <Koen_> to be honest I've never been a big fan of football
19:05:09 <Koen_> the world amateur go championship took place last week though
19:05:12 <moon_> hexxley just rm * 'd hbot
19:05:32 <moon_> its actually funny
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19:13:38 <moon_> Havocbot has been moved to #havocbot to evade hexxley preforming destructive commands, as ybden trained him to do so
19:14:54 <Koen_> soooo Facebook just released their go playing program
19:15:22 <Koen_> and by "released" I mean "made the sources publicly available"
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21:06:30 <zzo38> We should need to add many remote data sources that can be access by SQLite extension; you can then make SQL queries on them and can easily combine the data together, such as if you want to make a graph to compare flight delays with golf scores (in such case you would also need another extension to draw a graph).
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22:38:34 <moon_> i wonder, what should i add to havocbot
22:39:12 <zzo38> Make a video card that is design to be use with X window system; I thought of how its features would do. There are 64 palettes (two of which cannot be modified) each with 256 colours and 9 extra bits to decide which planes select red/green/blue. There are then 32 planes; six of them are used to select a palette. There are four 16x16 sprites with three colours + transparent. Memory can be accessed in XY format or Z format through the blitter.
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23:15:28 <moon_> maybe ill make a trick to render up to 16x16 images over irc
23:15:56 <moon_> using all 16 colors
23:29:19 <izabera> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2831 this is sleep sort?
23:37:21 <izabera> then the complexity is off
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00:06:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainscrambler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47195&oldid=20934 * 78.67.213.26 * (+68)
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00:59:26 <shachaf> `? complete heyting algebra
00:59:45 <HackEgo> complete heyting algebra? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:00:07 <HackEgo> Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
01:00:14 <HackEgo> A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. However, frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
01:00:18 <HackEgo> Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
01:00:30 <HackEgo> heyting algebra? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:00:41 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/locale//s/However, f/F/
01:00:43 <HackEgo> wisdom/locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
01:00:56 <tswett> I wonder what the idiom in Java is for when a method you're calling throws a checked exception and you don't want to handle it.
01:00:59 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/frame//s/However, f/F/
01:01:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/frame//A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
01:01:29 <shachaf> the idiom is try { ... } catch (StrangeException e) {} hth
01:01:52 <HackEgo> Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them.
01:01:58 <HackEgo> Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax.
01:03:20 <HackEgo> Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help instead.
01:03:58 <tswett> I was hoping that that wouldn't exist, because then I could have done: `le/rn help/The wisdom entry for "help" isn't very helpful.
01:04:14 <shachaf> But that's kind of a tired joke, isn't it?
01:04:27 <shachaf> I mean, pretty much the whole joke is that it's self-referential.
01:04:40 <shachaf> But we're used to self-reference in here. We don't need hundreds of jokes about it.
01:06:37 <shachaf> `le/rn complete heyting algebra/A complete Heyting algebra is just a cartesian closed complete lattice.
01:06:39 <HackEgo> Learned «complete heyting algebra»
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01:34:20 <hppavilion[1]> If non-US people call common football "soccer" when calling it "football" would make things abiguous
01:34:42 <hppavilion[1]> We'll call our American football "handegg" in similarly ambiguous situations
01:35:45 <moon_> i found something called powdertoy (http://powdertoy.co.uk/) it has had computers made in it, so ima make a brainfuck interpreter
01:37:23 <tswett> There are computers written in the Powder Toy?
01:37:42 <moon_> functional ones, fastest one i have seen is 1hz
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01:38:17 <moon_> The synergy computer being the best example (29-bit!)
01:39:15 <moon_> The synergy computer also comes with a instruction set
01:40:52 <moon_> actually, make the fastest one i have seen 1.5hz
01:42:31 <moon_> in 255 instructions?
01:42:37 <moon_> or in a custom computer
01:43:21 <moon_> here, leme pull up the synergy instruction set and info, you might find it intresting ,and brainfuck is doable+1 :P
01:43:34 <moon_> http://powdertoy.co.uk/Discussions/Thread/View.html?Thread=19974
01:44:04 <moon_> the synergy computer has most of its space taken up by a screen, by the way
01:46:07 <moon_> '' 001111: blows the computer up '' i wonder what happens if i print that twice
01:46:21 <moon_> output will be a little funky
01:47:09 <moon_> i dont see any TNT, NITR, or any other explosive
01:47:16 <moon_> there _might_ be a twice
01:49:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i have no idea how the bit representation in this works
01:49:53 <moon_> learn TPT's physics
01:50:14 <moon_> you have 100 or so elements to work with (=
01:52:32 <moon_> then why is there read/write FILT ram? filt is changed by temp
01:53:28 <moon_> filt has 5-10 modes tho
01:54:03 <tswett> I always like to create a box filled with water, and put a heat source at the bottom and a cold source at the top.
01:54:09 <hppavilion[1]> Do people in countries outside the US refer to black people as "African American"?
01:54:42 <moon_> tsweet, convection, as far as i know, is not modeled
01:54:46 <moon_> unless your making rain
01:54:50 <hppavilion[1]> Primarily European countries, where referring to most people as "American" would usually get you funny looks
01:55:09 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: I highly doubt it.
01:55:54 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: But I was watching a YouTube video today and they mentioned a guy (who I assume was british) correcting someone who called him "African American" on the grounds that he was neither african nor american
01:56:28 <Phantom_Hoover> yes, people tend to think you're an idiot if you do so
01:57:11 <Phantom_Hoover> moon_, the self-destruct works by cloning in some explosive btw
01:57:45 <tswett> Looks like Powder Toy still has that thing where turning water into steam requires no heat.
01:58:07 <moon_> water becomes steam at 100C as far as i know
01:58:16 <moon_> and as much as logic tells me, that should be true
01:58:32 <tswett> Well, yeah, I mean that thing where heating water from 99C to 101C is as easy as heating it from 97C to 99C.
01:58:39 <moon_> tswett: you have a tpt account?
01:59:12 <pikhq> Also, using "African American" instead of "black" is not a great way of being more "correct" -- essentially nobody has a preference for one over the other.
02:01:33 <\oren\> Well seeing as most black people I know aren't American...
02:01:42 <moon_> i found the explosives Phantom_Hoover , its FIRW
02:01:43 <tswett> I wonder all of a sudden.
02:01:53 <pikhq> \oren\: I was speaking purely in an American racial context, mind.
02:02:13 <tswett> How easy would it be to power a power plant using boiling hot water?
02:02:21 <pikhq> ... Obviously if you use "African American" to describe someone who is in no way connected to America, you're being pretty dumb.
02:02:58 <\oren\> In Canada afaict the correct term is always "Black". People aren't offended by "african canadian" but they'll look at you like you're an idiot
02:03:01 <tswett> I should mention, I'm talking about real life.
02:03:32 <tswett> Nah, my question was ambiguous.
02:03:37 <tswett> Boiling hot water is, of course, not very useful for powering a steam turbine.
02:03:44 <pikhq> "Black" is slightly preferred over "African American" in informal contexts, and vice versa in formal contexts, but both are considered generally correct and acceptable in the US.
02:04:24 <pikhq> But a few people hypercorrect and use "African American" always, even when incorrect, and come across as idiots.
02:04:41 <moon_> Phantom_Hoover: i just convinced it to erase its keyboard
02:04:51 <moon_> totally not idiot proof
02:04:54 <pikhq> (tip: Barack Obama is African American. Mandela is not African American.)
02:05:18 <moon_> it is currently strobing due to idiot edition usage
02:05:45 <tswett> So given a bunch of boiling-hot water, and an endless supply of room-temperature air, how do you heat some of the water so that it boils?
02:07:01 <moon_> just pull the pump's turn on switch
02:07:15 <\oren\> well I suppose some of the water would then technically no longer qualify as "water" due to nuclear transmutation but still
02:07:20 <pikhq> tswett: Heat pump?
02:07:55 <pikhq> Though really you can probably do things a lot simpler than that.
02:08:03 <pikhq> You *have* a nice heat gradiant there.
02:09:51 <pikhq> You could, for instance, just run a Stirling engine with one cylinder in the water and one cylinder in the air.
02:10:31 <pikhq> And not even need steam for it to work.
02:10:51 <lambdabot> RJTT 130100Z 02022KT 3800 SHRA BR FEW004 BKN006 BKN008 20/20 Q0998 TEMPO 3000 SHRA BR FEW003 BKN005 RMK 1ST004 5ST006 6ST008 A2948
02:11:22 <moon_> "Here's an interesting fact: you're not breathing real air. It's too expensive to pump this far down. We just take carbon dioxide out of a room, freshen it up a little, and pump it back in. So you'll be breathing the same room full of air for the rest of your life. I thought that was interesting."
02:11:36 <moon_> my answer from a while back
02:12:56 <FreeFull> But that's what astronauts do so it can't be so bad
02:13:50 <\oren\> spaceships tend to stink though
02:14:54 <pikhq> tswett: And of course if efficiency doesn't matter a thermoelectric generator will do you nicely.
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02:19:07 <zzo38> Do you know the answer of such question?
02:20:48 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes: It's a stupid question because you can't own a language
02:21:03 <hppavilion[1]> Well, unless it was invented recently, and even then it's stupid to try to control it
02:21:12 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Tell that to Paramount.
02:22:01 <pikhq> Sue a fan film for using Klingon.
02:22:48 <pikhq> Friendly advise for anyone with a bit of media with a very highly invested fan base: don't sue them. They *are* your audience.
02:23:17 <zzo38> I agree they should not force to control/own it
02:23:35 <hppavilion[1]> I believe languages should be legally exempt from copyright
02:23:40 <shachaf> tell them not to cling on to the past
02:23:52 <pikhq> One of the amicus briefs is partly in Klingon.
02:24:01 <pikhq> shachaf: There's a new series coming which might not suck.
02:24:15 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Or was it an un-pun? A place where you made it so you could put a pun, but then didn't?
02:26:16 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... You can't own a word (you can prevent people from using it to advertise themselves by trademark, but you can't prevent people from ever saying it)
02:30:40 <moon_> i found a wierd language: https://esolangs.org/wiki/SPAM/1
02:38:53 <tswett> The behavior of pressure in TPT seems really weird.
02:39:48 <moon_> try making a container of superheated WARP, and then opening it after a little
02:40:02 <moon_> in view 2 (Acessed by hitting the 2 key)
02:40:05 <tswett> I've got a bunch of water that's stuck up in the air thanks to prsesure.
02:40:21 <moon_> pressure does funny things
02:44:00 <tswett> I wonder what it's supposed to represent.
02:44:09 <moon_> Pressure, obviously
02:44:09 <tswett> TPT lets you have a pressure gradient in an unmoving fluid, which can't happen in real life.
02:44:21 <tswett> So clearly it's not the pressure of that fluid.
02:44:31 <tswett> And besides that, areas that are "empty" still have pressure.
02:46:26 <tswett> I can't tell whether it passes through solids or not.
02:46:47 <tswett> You can have a chunk of ice with a pressure of -11 in the middle, and it just stays at -11, which makes it seem like pressure can't pass through solids.
02:47:06 <moon_> TPT pressure is reallllly strange
02:47:20 <moon_> it DOES pass through any solids (besides TTAN and WALL)
02:47:44 <tswett> So why does ice maintain pressure like that?
02:48:12 <moon_> but pressure goes straight through GOLD and other solids
02:48:48 <moon_> ill consult the almighty wiki
02:49:14 <moon_> ICE does not hold pressure
02:50:53 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder how long it is until Microsoft puts ads in the title screen of Minecraft
02:51:32 <moon_> lets all hope they dont
02:51:45 <moon_> it would PREVIOUSLY be a good game then
02:51:53 <moon_> minecraft is in java
02:52:04 <moon_> ads in MC title screen = Anti-ad md
02:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: They'd add "Don't remove our ads with a mod" to the ToS
02:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> moon_: Because, of course, just because you've legally purchased the software, they can still tell you what you can and cannot do with it even for your own personal use
02:57:00 <tswett> Oh, look at this. Even empty space can have a pressure gradient.
02:57:34 <tswett> It's like somehow the ice is sucking up huge amounts of air.
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02:59:38 <tswett> Yeah, there's definitely a whole lot of negative pressure being generated here.
03:06:01 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... I wonder if a FOSS community could pull off a Minecraft-like game that doesn't turn out terrible and doesn't feel like it's become a cash cow rather than a fun project for the devs
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03:16:47 <deltab> I think Truecraft aims to be that
04:43:43 <Cale> Plan to be moddable and modular from the outset
04:45:33 <shachaf> i,i cash-oblivious software
04:49:33 <tswett> What's this channel's first occurrence of "i,i"?
04:49:52 <shachaf> This channel doesn't exist.
04:50:06 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
04:50:56 <tswett> Proposal: it's about 100 m (30 ft) across. Hth.
04:51:33 <shachaf> Cale: Can you think of any good pointless topology puns for my recent wisdom entries?
04:51:44 <tswett> How accurate is the wisdom entry for i,i?
04:52:36 <shachaf> The important question is how inaccurate it is.
04:52:53 <HackEgo> A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
04:52:56 <HackEgo> Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
04:53:06 <HackEgo> Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
04:53:10 <HackEgo> Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them.
04:53:14 <HackEgo> Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax.
05:03:47 <Cale> > iterate (>>= (\c -> case c of 'i' -> "i,i"; ',' -> " is "; 's' -> "ksk"; x -> [x])) "i"
05:03:49 <lambdabot> ["i","i,i","i,i is i,i","i,i is i,i i,iksk i,i is i,i","i,i is i,i i,iksk i,...
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05:26:28 <tswett> That reminds me of that infinite self-spelling sequence...
05:27:23 <tswett> cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, a, comma, space, es, pee, a, cee, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, ...
05:53:21 <izabera> is there a better way to generate that sequence without appending to a string?
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06:05:19 <zzo38> I don't know. I think I have seen stuff like that before (and have made up stuff like that before too), but not quite that one.
06:08:29 <zzo38> If I make a puzzle game of the kind that satisfies the following: rules :: Command -> Puzzle -> Either Bool Puzzle; isSolution :: [Command] -> Puzzle -> Bool; isSolution [] _ = False; isSolution (h:t) x = either id (isSolution t) $ rules h x; and the current state of the puzzle is always fully visible to the player. What is this kind of rules called?
06:09:25 <zzo38> (I do not mean to imply that it is necessarily programmed in Haskell, but the notation of Haskell seems useful to describe what I am trying to describe here.)
06:30:35 <Cale> > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in fix (\xs -> ' ' : describeString xs) -- not quite, but almost
06:30:37 <lambdabot> " space, es, pee, a, cee, e, comma, space, e, es, comma, space, pee, e, e, c...
06:32:41 <Cale> > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in fix (\xs -> describeString ('c' : xs)) -- also not quite
06:32:43 <lambdabot> "cee, cee, e, e, comma, space, cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, ...
06:36:13 <Cale> > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
06:36:15 <lambdabot> "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ...
06:36:35 <Cale> there we go :)
06:37:48 <Cale> izabera: ^^ got it
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06:43:03 <hppavilion[1]> "A prison escape or prison break is the act of an inmate leaving prison through unofficial or illegal ways."
06:52:38 <izabera> Cale: do you mind writing it in a normal language?
06:59:08 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Because the people in charge in Singapore are sexist assholes?
06:59:55 <izabera> do you want to permit caning on girls too?
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07:09:06 <hppavilion[1]> I just started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk2SuWwwdMk and now I'm immediately planning to move to Russia
07:09:41 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, or any other Nordic country (Norway, Finland, Sweden)
07:18:17 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, the quality of software used tends to go down as the GDP of a nation goes up
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07:35:06 <zzo38> Apparently the reason why the character ROM on CGA has two unused address bits is because the same ROM contains the MDPA patterns, so that both cards can use the same ROM.
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07:45:17 <pikhq> zzo38: Was it a mask ROM?
07:45:22 <pikhq> Because that makes me suspect that.
07:56:50 <Cale> izabera: What's a normal language? This relies on lazy evaluation...
07:57:09 <oerjan> `learn Implication is a useful rhetorical device, if you know what I mean.
07:57:09 <izabera> normal as in readable by humans <.<
07:57:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'implication': Implication is a useful rhetorical device, if you know what I mean.
07:57:12 <Cale> I program in Haskell for a living...
07:57:42 <Cale> I can explain the Haskell if you want
07:58:07 <Cale> @let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]
07:58:44 <Cale> So this function just does what it looks like, giving a string that describes the given character, or the empty string if it's not found in the list (though that never happens)
07:58:53 <Cale> > describeChar ','
07:59:13 <Cale> @let describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s)
07:59:39 <Cale> This describes a string by applying that function to each character in it, and then sticking ", " in between each of the things it got, concatenating the results
07:59:49 <Cale> > describeString "cee"
08:00:19 <izabera> so this is actually creating the same infinite string
08:00:32 <izabera> and it's using the same amount of space
08:00:40 <Cale> > iterate describeString $ "c"
08:00:41 <lambdabot> ["c","cee","cee, e, e","cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e","cee, e...
08:01:21 <Cale> iterate f x = [x, f x, f (f x), ...]
08:01:33 <Cale> it just applies the function over and over, giving an infinite list of the results
08:02:22 <izabera> yeah but i was hoping for a solution that didn't require infinite memory
08:02:23 <Cale> Now we do something quirky and transpose this list of lists, which is actually going to get us a list of infinite strings
08:02:41 <Cale> > transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
08:02:42 <lambdabot> ["cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc...
08:03:01 <Cale> The first element of every one of the strings is after all c...
08:03:08 <Cale> > take 5 . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
08:03:09 <lambdabot> ["cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc...
08:03:14 <hppavilion[1]> OK, how the hell does OEIS choose sequence numbers?
08:03:16 <Cale> > map (take 5) . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
08:03:17 <lambdabot> ["ccccc","eeeee","eeeee",",,,,,"," ","eeeee",",,,,,"," ","eeeee",",,...
08:03:25 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: user submitted
08:03:40 <Cale> But of course, these infinite strings are lazily constructed, and we're really only interested in the first element of each
08:03:49 <Cale> > map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
08:03:51 <lambdabot> "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ...
08:04:07 <izabera> Cale: but you still need unbounded memory x.x
08:04:15 <lambdabot> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
08:04:43 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: first come first served
08:04:57 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't know if it is mask ROM or what it is
08:05:25 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Then the first person to add one (A000001) was rather focused on Group Theory
08:05:52 <hppavilion[1]> Like, I'd think A000001 would be, I dunno, the empty sequence, or the natural numbers, or something like that
08:05:52 <oerjan> > fix (('c':).drop 1.describeString)
08:05:54 <lambdabot> "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ...
08:06:19 * oerjan vaguely assumes that's what Cale started with
08:06:37 <Cale> > map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c"
08:06:38 <lambdabot> "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ...
08:07:02 <shachaf> oerjan: now golf pi_10 twh
08:07:15 <Cale> oerjan: ah, haha
08:07:21 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
08:07:28 <Cale> oerjan: That's the easy one I was looking for initially
08:08:20 <Cale> (but couldn't quite find it -- in hindsight, that's obviously where the drop 1 needs to go :)
08:09:15 <hppavilion[1]> "that helps in some scenarios but not in others and I am as of yet unsure which scenario we are in"
08:11:05 <hppavilion[1]> How do you generate one of those self-counting sentences I wonder?
08:11:07 <Cale> izabera: There is probably a way to compute the nth element in O(log n) space...
08:11:07 <HackEgo> This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it.
08:11:27 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: constraint programming?
08:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> Like, you could make an algorithm that will generate some such sentences, but not one that will generate al
08:12:24 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well you can do some math to find bounds on what the counts can be.
08:13:11 <oerjan> and then you can do constraint programming to prune it all down.
08:13:12 <hppavilion[1]> It means "x is incapable of performing action a", but it feels like it should be read "x is capable of not performing action a"
08:13:30 <oerjan> or one of those SMT solvers which i've never used.
08:13:43 <oerjan> (which i guess is a form of constraint programming)
08:14:44 <oerjan> basically, those solvers can solve essentially all NP problems that aren't _designed_ to hit the hard cases.
08:15:44 <oerjan> not sure if they can list all solutions (assuming there's a reasonable number, which i assume is the case with those self-counting things)
08:18:12 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Then the first person to add one (A000001) was rather focused on Group Theory <-- perhaps it was just that sequence that gave em the idea that there needed to be such a site
08:19:00 <shachaf> speaking of groups what's with S_6?
08:19:57 <oerjan> <Cale> izabera: There is probably a way to compute the nth element in O(log n) space... <-- i think your iterated version might count, with enough garbage collection.
08:20:31 <Cale> Yeah, I don't think it does...
08:22:11 <oerjan> well, the idea is that you'd really want to generate copies of the sequence in "parallel"
08:22:17 <oerjan> without sharing between them.
08:22:34 <oerjan> so not _exactly_ that version, but something similar.
08:25:14 <oerjan> > let fix' f = f (fix' f) in fix' (('c':).drop 1.describeString)
08:25:16 <lambdabot> "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ...
08:25:43 <oerjan> like that, assuming that fix' avoids sharing
08:26:30 <oerjan> i guess that was my version.
08:28:03 <oerjan> or you can do it with a stack.
08:29:22 <oerjan> or wait, you need the depth.
08:33:01 <Cale> The problem is that the part of the string that you're describing and the part of the string you're constructing get arbitrarily far apart over time
08:34:13 <shachaf> why is S_6 the only symmetric group that has a non-inner automorphism
08:34:28 <Cale> shachaf: Because shenanigans
08:35:13 <oerjan> Cale: yes, but as long as they're not shared with each other, you only need to keep around a bounded part of each.
08:35:20 <oerjan> and GC should do that.
08:39:57 <oerjan> now if you want it to be logarithmic _time_ as well... then you need some matrix/vector thinking.
08:39:58 <Cale> shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automorphisms_of_the_symmetric_and_alternating_groups#No_other_outer_automorphisms has a quick explanation
08:42:37 <shachaf> Why are groups so complicated?
08:42:41 <Cale> shachaf: Basically it comes down to the coincidence that the number of transpositions, i.e. the conjugacy class containing (1,2) in S_6, happens to have the same size as the conjugacy class containing (1,2)(3,4)(5,6)
08:42:57 <Cale> 15 elements each
08:44:15 <Cale> Why are prime decompositions so complicated? It's that problem, only worse.
08:44:32 <oerjan> <shachaf> i fell into the oerjan trap <-- . o O ( sometimes he sets traps without knowing )
08:44:44 <hppavilion[1]> (it's somewhere between a monomorphism and a bimorphism)
08:45:09 <shachaf> oerjan: Obviously an "oerjan trap" is designed to trap oerjans.
08:45:48 <lifthrasiir> I'm working on expanding https://oeis.org/A121064
08:46:05 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
08:46:17 <shachaf> You can't put everything Taneb invents into tanebventions.
08:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Perhaps we should divide it into sections?
08:47:05 <HackEgo> tanebventions[2]? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:50:03 <HackEgo> cp: missing file operand \ Try `cp --help' for more information.
08:50:21 <hppavilion[1]> `` cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebventions(0)
08:50:23 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebventions(0)'
08:50:34 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: 0: command not found \ cp: cannot stat `wisdom/tanebventions': No such file or directory
08:50:55 <oerjan> i suggest if we split it, we split out the math ones.
08:52:04 * oerjan was just thinking adding (math)
08:52:35 <shachaf> At the rate it's growing, we'll have to split it tanebventually.
08:53:11 <hppavilion[1]> By the way, what's the International Shachaf Prototype?
08:53:22 <hppavilion[1]> (As analogous to the International Kilogram Prototype)
08:54:28 <oerjan> `le/rn tanebventions (math)/Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
08:54:34 <HackEgo> Learned «tanebventions (math)»
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08:54:49 <Cale> shachaf: So the number of transpositions in S_n is (n;2) = n(n-1)/2. For S_7, for example, we have 21 transpositions, and then the sizes of conjugacy classes of elements of order 2 which could potentially be swapped with those by an automorphism if they had the same size are (7;2)(5;2)/2! = 105, and (7;2)(5;2)(3;2)/3! = 105 again.
08:55:36 <Cale> and this seems to get only worse as we go on to higher n -- probably there is an argument you could make to bound it
08:55:54 <oerjan> `le/rn tanebvention/Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions (math). He never invents anything involving sex.
08:56:08 <Cale> Of course, the smaller n, there are only a few to go through.
08:58:23 <hppavilion[1]> But really, what is the standard pun that is exactly equal to 1 shachaf?
08:58:57 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> By the way, what's the International Shachaf Prototype? <-- ask boily, he keeps doing the measurements...
08:59:40 <hppavilion[1]> @ask boily What is the International Shachaf Prototype?
08:59:41 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't see why Go is math.
09:00:13 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: maybe there is no prototype, they've worked hard at replacing them.
09:00:25 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it.
09:01:03 <hppavilion[1]> Where the center of the entire shape and the center of the band coincide
09:01:55 <shachaf> as the tori say: "we were spheres once, and then they torus a new one"
09:01:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the Go entry is a mixture of several things, none of which are _specifically_ math.
09:01:56 <hppavilion[1]> There's also a horn torus where the distance between the center of the band and the center of the entire shape is equal to the radius of the band and a spindle torus where the radius is less than the disstance
09:02:35 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think shachaf may have shown us the prototype tdnh
09:03:23 <hppavilion[1]> But if a sphere is a torus, then you can't really say that a cube isn't topologically equivalent to a torus
09:03:33 <hppavilion[1]> And if you can't do that, then pretty much everything is the same as everything else
09:03:44 <oerjan> a sphere isn't homeomorphic to a torus, it's at best a degenerate one.
09:03:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no it's not.
09:04:02 <shachaf> "homeomorphic" is a scow word.
09:04:26 <HackEgo> guantanamo bay? ¯\(°_o)/¯
09:04:55 <hppavilion[1]> I'd put something there, but I'm bad at obfuscating C code
09:05:42 <oerjan> we really don't have it?
09:05:56 <oerjan> `` rgrep -i ioc wisdom
09:06:29 <oerjan> `` rgrep -i ioc wisdom; echo Hi
09:07:10 <oerjan> `` rgrep -i ioc wisdom; echo Hi
09:07:12 <HackEgo> wisdom/iocccclist:iocccccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.iocccc.org/#news \ Hi
09:08:02 <HackEgo> Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell.
09:08:08 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
09:08:19 <HackEgo> Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.
09:08:27 <HackEgo> java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures
09:08:34 <HackEgo> HTML is short for "hope this mess loads".
09:10:31 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, maybe there should be `?* to glob your argument
09:12:54 <oerjan> `learn The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
09:12:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'ioccc': The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
09:13:30 <HackEgo> Heck is where you end up if you don't believe in Gosh.
09:14:04 <oerjan> `learn OIC, OIC means Oh I see.
09:14:07 <HackEgo> Learned 'oic': OIC, OIC means Oh I see.
09:15:33 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/java//s/./J/;s/$/./
09:15:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/java//Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures.
09:15:53 <shachaf> Should it be "programming-language-shaped"?
09:16:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: `wisdom supports globs hth
09:17:06 <HackEgo> flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top.
09:17:13 <oerjan> although i don't think it's in the name.
09:17:25 <shachaf> There should be a version of `wisdom that searches wisdom text.
09:17:42 <shachaf> `` ls -s wisdom | sort -rn
09:17:48 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.
09:18:11 <oerjan> shachaf: If so, it needs to be safe against timing out.
09:18:20 <HackEgo> אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
09:25:32 <oerjan> `learn Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:25:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'ism': Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:26:25 <oerjan> `learn Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:26:33 <HackEgo> Relearned 'ism': Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:26:53 <oerjan> `learn Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:26:57 <HackEgo> Relearned 'ism': Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism".
09:31:23 <Cale> Like faceism (sometimes spelled "fascism") and brace-faceism
09:31:41 <oerjan> i'm not familiar with the latter.
09:34:27 <hppavilion[1]> Non-regular dice where, on average, some beat others
09:35:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: shall i find something to mop up your exploded brain?
09:36:03 <hppavilion[1]> Because their mind is not the ONLY thing in the entire world that is currently blown
09:37:06 <HackEgo> [U+2286 SUBSET OF OR EQUAL TO]
09:38:09 <hppavilion[1]> And if you double the number of dice for each option and add them
09:38:38 <hppavilion[1]> Then if die color C beats die color D on average, die color D now beats die color C on average
09:43:01 <myname> there are 5 non-transitive dice that beat each other clockwise if chosen one and counterclockwise if chosen two of each
09:43:25 <myname> (each other = the next two)
09:46:09 <hppavilion[1]> myname: ...yeah. That's exactly what I was talking about
09:46:25 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The ones invented by James Grime (apparently)
09:48:16 <oerjan> bitcoin still climbing...
09:48:28 * oerjan doesn't actually have any, just likes to check now and then
09:49:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I won't be using Bitcoin until it starts to support complex and ordinal numbers
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09:55:50 <myname> also, shouldn't it be like mind \in blown?
09:59:40 <myname> because clearly, mind is not a set
10:06:31 <Koen_> experts in the field have been struggling for decades, if not centuries, trying to understand what the mind is
10:06:44 <Koen_> and you dare use the word "clearly" speaking about it?!
10:07:24 <Koen_> even hofstadter did not write down the sentence "clearly there are strange loops in the mind"
10:09:22 <myname> well, i can say the mind clearly is not a potato
10:09:28 <myname> nothing wrong with that
10:10:25 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...was that a pun? <-- yes.
10:11:54 <shachaf> I should've said "star wars", though.
10:13:31 <oerjan> what do you jabba bout
10:16:54 <oerjan> <shachaf> i,i cash-oblivious software <-- squee
10:25:01 <Koen_> "i,i-word" looks like an organic molecule name
10:28:07 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist 2016-06-13
10:28:12 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist 2016-06-13: b_jonas
10:35:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And I would argue that the mind is definitely a set
10:35:46 <hppavilion[1]> It's at least a better approximation to call the mind a set than a single object. I guess.
10:36:11 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I guess you could treat the mind as an isolated set so it is a set within the set of blown things
10:37:02 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But it makes more sense to treat minds as a set of things that are in the toplevel of blown; it might make more sense to make it a single object for a /human/ mind, but I'm fairly certain you could have two minds that share certain parts but separate others
10:37:29 <myname> hppavilion[1]: what are the elements of a mind?
10:43:25 <hppavilion[1]> myname: A mind is just a bunch of stuff out of a grab bag
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10:54:34 <hppavilion[1]> My internet capped out so I'm on the lowest speed my ISP offers
10:54:51 <hppavilion[1]> But the video I'm watching seems like the kind of thing it'd be a sin to not watch in AT LEAST 360p
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11:07:31 <oerjan> this king in girl genius does not seem altogether sane.
11:17:24 <int-e> . o O ( that seemed unlikely ever since last wednesday )
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11:57:38 <oerjan> int-e: well he _could_ have been just confused. and possibly betrayed. but now i'm starting to think his insanity is the main reason he was put there.
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12:12:52 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] asked 3h 13m 12s ago: What is the International Shachaf Prototype?
12:13:22 <boily> hppavellon[1]. it's the canonical shachaf reference hth
12:13:36 <hppavilion[1]> boily: But what /is/ the canonical shachaf reference?
12:14:11 <hppavilion[1]> What is the pun that gives you the standard basis for measuring puns in terms of shachafs?
12:14:44 <boily> shachaf: hellochaf. what is the true pun?
12:15:11 <hppavilion[1]> boily: shachaf wouldn't tell me or didn't know. I was told to ask you.
12:15:35 * boily quests for the True Pun
12:15:56 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Though shachaf did say "as the tori say: \"we were spheres once, and then they torus a new one\"", which oerjan then hypothesized is the ISP
12:16:05 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: You didn't even ask me.
12:16:33 <shachaf> I'll request that you use some code name to refer to me, though, because getting pinged by this conversation is annoying.
12:16:45 <shachaf> That pun is certainly not canonical or even characteristic.
12:17:47 * hppavilion[1] wishes he knew what shachaf already has coded to ping him that isn't eir nick, so that he could choose that as the codeword
12:17:49 <boily> that torus one is a «trou» pun...
12:18:16 <boily> hppavilion[1]: hint: it's "chaf" hth
12:18:33 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if shagrumpy was a Boyscowt as a child...
12:19:16 <hppavilion[1]> (Or Girlscowt; you never know on IRC, and I can't remember off the top of my head if someone is male or unspecified- I can remember anything else though, weirdly)
12:19:53 <hppavilion[1]> If shagrumpy went into food preparation, would e be "shachef"?
12:20:08 <hppavilion[1]> (this is me looking for the OTP (One True Pun) btw)
12:20:55 <boily> all those puns will be held against you once I'm awake enough to mapole you as you deserve.
12:21:47 <hppavilion[1]> "Anything you say can and will be held against you" "Chocolate"
12:22:14 <hppavilion[1]> Wait... if the "anything you say..." is actually pretty stupid
12:22:25 * boily unwraps a bar of choklad mörk
12:22:27 <hppavilion[1]> What if I say "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"?
12:23:40 <oerjan> your honor, the defendant clearly admitted to being part of a sleeper cell of environmental terrorists...
12:24:08 * boily munches munches munches ♪
12:24:29 <oerjan> . o O ( why is it choklad mörk rather than mörk choklad )
12:25:11 <boily> because that's what the packaging says. "Choklad mörk" then "Dark chocolate / Chocolat noir".
12:25:57 <oerjan> it's a little weird putting the adjective last in swedish.
12:27:01 <boily> I don't speak Swedish.
12:29:24 <hppavilion[1]> You know that episode of every science- or magic-related TV show where everbody switches brains and can only switch with each other person once?
12:30:17 <oerjan> i haven't watched that many.
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12:30:31 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Basically, shagrumpy and boily go to http://www.magicbrainswitcher.com at the same time on a troll
12:31:14 <hppavilion[1]> They find that it doesn't allow you to switch with someone you've already switched with
12:31:56 <hppavilion[1]> And usually it's resolved by a complicated mathematical process (which may or may not be explained) that gets everybody back where they started
12:32:14 <hppavilion[1]> But there's a much easier AND ethically superior solution
12:32:23 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i've never seen that episode.
12:32:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Stargate: SG1, Futurama, probably some others...
12:33:00 <hppavilion[1]> Get all the main people back where they started, but have two or more outsiders who both happen to be trans
12:33:23 <oerjan> i guess this meme started spreading after i stopped watching tv
12:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> Boom. You get the same result for the main characters, AND you've made life easier for some other people. Ethisuccess!
12:35:55 <oerjan> i am not sure transes work that way.
12:36:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Eh, it's the human race; some will, at the very least
12:36:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: In any situation that most people would find undesirable, there'll always be a group of people who are all for it
12:37:13 <oerjan> also, that only helps if it actually ends up simpler.
12:38:05 <oerjan> like a rubik's cube where you don't have to solve the bottom
12:39:11 <hppavilion[1]> For most of them, the last number doesn't actually matter, but you can't remove it
12:41:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I'm talking about twisty ones; you can test all possible last numbers for most of them in one go
12:41:23 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdsey0irfSs is beautiful
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13:49:22 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_brain
13:53:00 <Koen_> 1955 - 1978 : 23 years before it was revealed. are we sure it's his?
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17:05:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Up]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47196 * Qwertyu63 * (+2306) Created page with "'''Stack Up''' is a stack-based programming language. Stack Up uses two LIFO data stacks for storing and processing data. Each stack has no maximum depth beyond that which is..."
17:06:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Up]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47197&oldid=47196 * Qwertyu63 * (+19)
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17:16:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47198&oldid=47185 * Qwertyu63 * (+15)
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17:56:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Up]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47199&oldid=47197 * Qwertyu63 * (+117)
17:57:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Up]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47200&oldid=47199 * Qwertyu63 * (+0)
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18:40:29 <shachaf> fizzie: Is there a relevant change in .fi domain name handling?
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19:15:54 <moon_> translation: get input from side one -> take input and add 52, then square -> output to side two
19:18:28 <moon_> effective description of node: io: 1i 2o 3n 4n 5n 6n src: f1->(V+52)^2->o2 cmnt: the extra 1 was a personal error
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19:24:42 <moon_> Well, really thats me typing mindlessly into the wrong thing for esolang planning
19:25:09 * moon_ slaps self for typing mindlessly into the wrong thing
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23:22:35 <shachaf> That sounds like "granfalloon".
23:23:30 <moon_> no it sounds like melloon
23:24:11 <moon_> now excuse me while i remind boily i am _not_ a melon
23:25:12 <boily> https://youtu.be/4dAy9u0_9nM ♪
23:25:28 <boily> hellochaf. it sounds like "granfalloon".
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23:38:11 <HackEgo> trantor//Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
23:38:27 <shachaf> is your PhD in Heying algebra complete yet
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23:39:38 <boily> no, I need to recruit more undergrads.
23:40:04 <shachaf> b_jonas: what's that wisdom entry for
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00:51:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47201&oldid=47194 * Qwertyu63 * (-2173) Replaced content with "Writer of [[Stack Up]]."
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01:16:30 <moon_> (i1^i2)=>(V/2)~>o3|(V*2)->"cow"aV->o4
01:18:47 <moon_> outputs: (value of (input 1 ^ input 2) / 2) (cow with (V*2) appended)
01:19:31 <Sgeo> Can someone who likes Erlang/Elixir/OTP explain to me what the difference between a named gen_server and a global variable is?
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01:53:13 <HackEgo> time cube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wro
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02:00:15 <boily> remhelloon_. Time Cube was a website. it had content. the content was of a slightly confusing nature.
02:05:00 <moon_> (i1^i2)=>(V/2)~>o3|(V*2)->"cow"aV->o4
02:05:19 <moon_> im making a intresting new esolang based on nodes on a grid
02:05:40 <moon_> im thinking about making it purely conditional, aka a state machine
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02:06:38 <boily> moon_: as long as it's unzucchinilike enough!
02:07:55 <boily> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Zucchini ← Zucchini.
02:09:35 <boily> I got brotherly invaded. he's spending the week here!
02:09:57 <boily> the timeshift is only up until Friday morning.
02:10:20 <boily> how's life on your end? do you have any invasions lately?
02:10:41 <moon_> the nodes are on a 2d grid (i might make it 3d) and i have decided to make it purely conditional, i.e i1>2 -> o2<=1
02:11:20 <moon_> i was invaded by 3 noisy loud things
02:11:39 <moon_> they are called 'humans'
02:11:54 <moon_> what are humans *pulled off bad joke*
02:14:22 <moon_> A null (uncoded) cell cannot exist, and aaa^2 to zzz^2 functions are possible functions are specified by a 3x3 'cell' and functions are defined offgrid
02:14:50 <moon_> generally the program is always n^2
02:15:12 <boily> moon_: what kind of humans? tall, small, low albedo, bumpy, gritty, plasmatic?
02:15:46 <moon_> also, io is considered to be any interaction with the edges of the program
02:16:09 <moon_> and all cells run synchronously
02:16:11 <quintopia> .... that is suspiciously cellbrain like
02:16:57 <moon_> i've never seen cellbrain
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02:18:53 <quintopia> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Cellbrain
02:19:42 <moon_> basic info: cell based. conditonal only. no direct memory access 3x3 grid specifys functions with the characters a-z being used as the combo.
02:21:14 <boily> time for nocturnal cadaverousness.
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02:21:45 <moon_> what is it with boily and chickens
02:21:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47202&oldid=47198 * Ais523 * (+24) /* S */ let's create a language the old-fashioned way (i.e. editing a link to the page into the language list, then writing the page about it)
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02:39:27 <Sgeo> Easiest way to add to wisdom?
02:40:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Subtractpocalypse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47203 * Ais523 * (+2785) Created page with "'''Subtractpocalypse'''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:ais523]] in [[:Category:2016|2016]]. == Data storage == Like a [[Minsky machine]], Subtrac..."
02:41:01 <ais523> Sgeo: `learn or `le/rn
02:41:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47204&oldid=46085 * Ais523 * (+23) +[[Subtractpocalypse]]
02:41:39 <Sgeo> `learn erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability
02:41:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'erlang': erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability
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04:50:14 <hppavilion[1]> Lots of people on youtube make comments specifying the current number of dislikers to criticize them
04:50:33 <hppavilion[1]> I'd think YouTube would've added a content generator for that by now
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07:00:59 * Sgeo is almost thinking of Elixir as being similar to Clojure except on a host that's not utterly at odds with the new language
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07:47:11 <izabera> https://arin.ga/JHlKMt/raw thoughts on this?
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11:47:01 <HackEgo> hth//hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
11:47:50 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
11:47:54 <boily> hppavellon[1]. hth is hth hth
11:48:06 <HackEgo> Intelligence is a scarce resource that is distributed by the CIA.
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11:49:09 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn clever/Being clever is different from being wise, but they are indistinguishable in sufficiently large quantities.
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11:51:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'children': Children are a fungible commodity
12:01:37 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
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12:04:48 <lambdabot> *** "childhood" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
12:04:48 <lambdabot> CHILDHOOD, n. The period of human life intermediate between the
12:04:48 <lambdabot> idiocy of infancy and the folly of youth -- two removes from the sin
12:04:48 <lambdabot> of manhood and three from the remorse of age.
12:05:09 <int-e> so there's *something*. (there's also an entry on babies but it's too long)
12:05:30 <lambdabot> *** "circus" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
12:05:30 <lambdabot> CIRCUS, n. A place where horses, ponies and elephants are permitted
12:05:30 <lambdabot> to see men, women and children acting the fool.
12:22:54 <b_jonas> shachaf: probably just a jab at the obvious theory that some of the city planets Trantor, Coruscant, and Ravnica (which are all entirely covered by a city) must be the same. I think I added a corresponding wisdom/coruscant entry.
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13:40:53 <HackEgo> erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability
13:41:15 <oerjan> `sled/wisdom/erlang/s/./E/;s/$/./
13:41:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/sled/wisdom/erlang/s/./E/;s/$/./: No such file or directory
13:41:26 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/erlang/s/./E/;s/$/./
13:41:32 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/erlang//s/./E/;s/$/./
13:41:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability.
13:41:46 <oerjan> brains, htf to they work
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13:56:58 <HackEgo> Children are a fungible commodity
13:57:09 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/children//s/$/./
13:57:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/children//Children are a fungible commodity.
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15:01:19 <moon_> someone made a defuse thi bomb challange in tpt, do they not know about CRAY and its erasing powers?
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15:17:47 <HackEgo> Moon is a murderous person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
15:18:13 <int-e> `` echo bin/*appe*
15:18:16 <HackEgo> bin/append bin/learn_append bin/learn_append2
15:18:18 <gamemanj> I think Wisdom's scoring low on the reliability test today
15:18:38 <oerjan> gamemanj: i'm sorry but that information was based on clear log evidence hth
15:18:42 <int-e> `` sed -i s/person/lunatic/ wisdom/moon
15:19:20 <int-e> (it was missing the obvious pun)
15:20:24 <gamemanj> (...I'm not even sure it's a pun)
15:20:44 <oerjan> i can confirm it's a pun hth
15:22:55 <HackEgo> #Rewritten by hand \ #info on lines 2 4 9 15 20 26.. continued on line 2 \ #32 38 \ if [ "$1" == "rl" ]; then #readline \ NUM="$3" \ cat "$2" | sed "${NUM}!d" \ exit 0 \ fi \ if [ "$1" == "rr" ]; then #readrange \ NUM="$3" \ NUM2="$4" \ cat "$2" | sed "${NUM},${NUM2}!d" \ exit 0 \ fi \ if [ "$1" == "dl" ]; then #delete line \ NUM="$3" \
15:23:15 <HackEgo> bin/slashes \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/sled \ bin/slist
15:24:00 <oerjan> `mkx slwd sled "wisdom/$1"
15:24:02 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
15:24:09 <moon_> `med rr bin/med 1 3
15:24:10 <oerjan> `mkx bin/slwd//sled "wisdom/$1"
15:24:19 <moon_> `med rr 1 3 bin/med
15:24:29 <moon_> i forgot my own syntax
15:25:13 <int-e> `` med rr 1 3 bin/med
15:25:17 <HackEgo> cat: 1: No such file or directory \ sed: -e expression #1, char 3: unexpected `,'
15:25:22 <HackEgo> bin/mislearn \ bin/slashes \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/sled \ bin/slist \ bin/slwd \ bin/translate \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/translateto \ bin/translatetoerjan
15:25:32 <moon_> `` med bin/med 1 3
15:25:44 <moon_> .-. i certainly did
15:25:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"tmflry/$topic" \ echo "Was lied to about '$topic': $1"
15:26:28 <int-e> `` echo bin/t*m*f*l
15:26:32 <int-e> `` echo bin/t*m*f*l*
15:26:45 <HackEgo> I have nothing to tell you.
15:26:57 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
15:27:05 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
15:27:14 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
15:27:24 <int-e> `` cd tmflry; echo *
15:27:25 <HackEgo> @ brainfuck c++ C++ cat esolang esolangs #esoteric fs hth mapole `mislearn mycology ntitai random number tdnh the meaning of life tomfoolery wiki wisdom
15:27:34 <int-e> `tomfoolery wisdom
15:27:45 <HackEgo> C++ is an attempt to improve upon C. The only thing it actually improved was memory management, and it made everything else worse.
15:27:53 <HackEgo> C++ is an attempt to improve upon C. The only thing it actually improved was memory management, and it made everything else worse.
15:28:15 <HackEgo> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
15:28:23 <moon_> generally i kinda agree there, not everything tho, classes were a huge improvement
15:29:08 <moon_> twinkle twinkle little star
15:29:21 <moon_> *i forgot the last few lines )=*
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17:34:26 <Taneb> If I'm to follow my dream
17:34:46 <Taneb> I need to start thinking about applying for postgraduatey things
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18:14:17 <HackEgo> smlist 443: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
18:19:29 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
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18:27:32 <shachaf> Taneb: If I'm to follow my dream, I'll need to go around a big house with empty rooms and fill up a garbage bag somehow.
18:37:52 <moon_> `yes shachaf | head
18:37:54 <HackEgo> shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf | head \ shachaf |
18:38:05 <moon_> im askin a question
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18:55:29 <int-e> shachaf: can you, say, blow up the garbage bag? (in a nonexplosive fashion)
18:55:56 <shachaf> Look, this dream was several years ago. I don't remember the details.
18:56:53 <int-e> I didn't have context anyway.
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19:03:30 <shachaf> The context was what Taneb said a few lines ago.
19:07:26 <fizzie> shachaf: Relevant for what? There is a change, yes.
19:08:14 <shachaf> fizzie: I didn't realize at firs tthat the email had an English section.
19:08:47 <fizzie> I haven't yet decided what to do with zem.fi.
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19:09:53 <shachaf> Why do you need to do something?
19:10:02 <shachaf> You didn't go through a registrar?
19:10:22 <shachaf> Anyway it sounds like .fi domains will be open to everyone in Sep?
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19:11:42 <fizzie> Yes. And I went through the government, that was the only way you could go through when I got the domain.
19:12:17 <fizzie> (So now I need to locate a company that's not stupid.)
19:12:37 <shachaf> A company that's not stupid?
19:14:22 <fizzie> Yes, to do the registrar thing.
19:15:08 <shachaf> "The registrar is often the one that has provided you • internet access • home page • or email address."
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19:16:10 <fizzie> Well, I don't think our UK ISP or DigitalOcean does .fi domains.
19:16:59 <shachaf> I use gandi.net for my .fi domain.
19:17:07 <shachaf> I don't know whether they can do the registrar thing.
19:19:02 <fizzie> The government place had a huge list, but I know nothing about any of them.
19:20:31 <fizzie> I looked at the websites of couple of them at random, and couldn't find out at all whether they'd be willing to sell me the domain registration only, without any other services.
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20:37:13 <moon_> someone discovered something that jammes havocbot and requires admin assistance: the allmighty vi
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20:43:53 <eclipse> what is this madness moon_
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21:08:30 <moon_> people ave diescted hbot and started playing with its output stream
21:21:59 -!- eclipse has left ("Leaving").
21:23:34 <moon_> it freezes up hbot for some reason
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21:47:05 <gamemanj> this is bound to start up text editor flamewars
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21:48:39 <moon_> hbot is being moved to archlinux
21:48:58 <moon_> using a more secure and better bot
21:52:11 <gamemanj> I think I'm supposed to say "yay" here because I use archlinux, but I think I'll have to defer to someone else on that since I'm busy
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21:52:58 <gamemanj> sorry for any inconvenience caused, etc... ok, nvm, YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!
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21:55:31 <moon_> hbot will gain network filters
21:55:42 <moon_> *if i can write them*
21:55:54 <moon_> the new hbot will have cc
21:56:26 <gamemanj> so can I compile ye-olde-forkbomb.c?
21:57:49 <myname> or ye-olde-endless-loop.c
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22:00:21 <moon_> ill see about a timer
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22:51:24 <izabera> http://www.valvesoftware.com/jobs/job_postings.html
22:51:29 <izabera> "As a Valve Anti-Cheat engineer, you will use your reverse engineering, debugging, and programming skills to bring down cheaters throughout the Steam community. Your familiarity with executable file formats, dynamic link libraries, and process management will help us unravel webs of online cheaters."
23:05:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47205 * 216.188.250.122 * (+5707) Created page with "''Nix'' is a one-dimension [[Esoteric_programming_language|esoteric language]] created by Quiqucode. It operates on a single top-access stack that can be manipulated via certa..."
23:13:32 <Koen_> not to be confused with bottom-access stacks
23:25:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47206&oldid=47205 * 216.188.250.122 * (+14) /* Methods */
23:27:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47207&oldid=47206 * 216.188.250.122 * (+1) /* Syntax */
23:30:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47208&oldid=47207 * 216.188.250.122 * (+4)
23:30:50 <izabera> http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html
23:31:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47209&oldid=47208 * 216.188.250.122 * (-9)
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23:35:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47210&oldid=47209 * 216.188.250.122 * (-1)
23:36:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47211&oldid=47210 * 216.188.250.122 * (-80) /* External resources */
23:52:49 <Cale> b...but there already is an esolang called nix... https://nixos.org/nix/
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00:05:59 <quintopia> not much you can do to prevent simple names from being duplicated
00:06:13 <quintopia> see the two different languages called "Clue" already on the wiki
00:07:02 <oerjan> it happens surprisingly rarely
00:07:57 <quintopia> i've dissuaded someone from naming a language "Grasp" at least once, despite the fact that the barely-extant language of that name isn't even on the wiki...
00:08:48 <oerjan> <shachaf> Taneb: If I'm to follow my dream, I'll need to go around a big house with empty rooms and fill up a garbage bag somehow. <-- i'd prefer not to follow my most recent dream, as it was happening in a totalitarian state with strict thought control tdnh
00:09:04 <shachaf> oerjan: but were you the overlord?
00:09:06 <oerjan> (although there were some rebels.)
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00:17:15 <boily> he's attending panels and posters and cocktails with hairy and optical people.
00:17:54 <oerjan> . o O ( a clash of dental and optical people )
00:19:04 <APic> As long as they Mentals are out…
00:20:02 -!- bender has joined.
00:20:12 <oerjan> . o O ( nairy and dental )
00:20:43 * oerjan realizes for the first time that Nair is a portmanteau
00:20:56 <boily> I believe there's a strong correlation between hair length and mathematical skills.
00:21:02 <oerjan> well, possibly the first time.
00:22:36 <oerjan> it may be strong, but it's not essential. look at terry tao.
00:23:38 <boily> hair length integer overflow.
00:26:03 <shachaf> oerjan: what is "thausible" twh
00:26:22 <boily> `culprits wisdom/thausiblee
00:26:34 <oerjan> also, look at alexander grothendieck.
00:26:53 <oerjan> (the first google images hit on "bald mathematician")
00:27:23 <boily> counter-establishment anarcho-mathematician hth
00:45:26 <izabera> is this spam? https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/44459/why-do-people-create-fictional-languages
00:53:23 <quintopia> the link is a footnote, an interesting aside
00:53:31 <quintopia> advertising it doesn't seem to be the main point
00:53:56 <quintopia> and the item in question has gotten a lot of press lately, so it's not surprising for it to appear here
00:56:18 <izabera> how well does that thing work?
00:56:42 <quintopia> is "spastic fit" the correct way to translate "seizure" into Victorian English?
00:58:30 <quintopia> exactly how you'd expect: record speech, convert to text, send to app, parse and translate, TTS, send back to ear piece.
00:58:54 <quintopia> the trick is that all the translation is done within the app rather than in the cloud, so no internet connection needed.
01:01:16 <boily> quintopia: the bro is a grad student. he's doing his masters atm hth
01:01:17 <izabera> google translate is okish for short sentences
01:04:32 <quintopia> no one knows how well it works, as it hasn't been sold yet
01:06:08 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Elronnd\StD.
01:10:38 <quintopia> boily: and you? you are alone and desperate for attention? :P
01:13:51 -!- Elronnd\StD has changed nick to Elronnd.
01:14:21 <boily> quintopia: in a permanent state of despair and existential anguish.
01:19:43 <boily> they could, but I'm eating tortellinis >_>'...
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01:27:02 <quintopia> if Negro was considered taboo in the 1860s, what was considered acceptable?
01:31:02 <oerjan> https://nixos.org/nix/
01:31:38 <oerjan> i think negro was considered excessively polite
01:33:07 <oerjan> ...how did i paste that link.
01:33:29 <oerjan> i know where i got it from.
01:33:38 <oerjan> the question is wtf did i paste it.
01:34:09 <oerjan> and we'll just skip over the damn brain.
01:34:10 <moon_> shhhhh dont be mean to them, the can dissappear at will!
01:34:27 <moon_> we dont want a world without keyboards :P
01:34:47 <moon_> world without fingers is many times worse
01:35:13 <oerjan> we'll just use mecha claws hth
01:35:30 <moon_> how would we make em? No fingers
01:35:47 <oerjan> have you seen what those toe painters can do
01:35:55 <oerjan> shouldn't be a problem.
01:36:30 <shachaf> wouldn't we need mecha lawyers first
01:36:30 <moon_> we cant assemble mecha claws without delicate presicion
01:36:41 * oerjan wonders how long it would take dolphins to develop suitable gripping tools if they put their mind to it
01:36:57 <moon_> in around 3-5 minutes
01:37:18 <moon_> hbot will be running on a minimal debian installation (base utilitys only)
01:37:26 <moon_> (with gcc, i hope)
01:37:33 <moon_> (if not, dpkg power)
01:37:58 <oerjan> moon_: i shall misquote a certain dwarf from somewhere: "with just stones and sticks he could build tools. with those tools he could build other tools. with those tools he could build anything."
01:38:16 <oerjan> (i think it may have been discworld?)
01:38:43 <moon_> i just poped off a key from my keyboard
01:39:10 <moon_> warning: do not hold my crumb filled keyboard above your head
01:40:24 <oerjan> i think the crumbs in my keyboard have shifted again, it's been a while since i noticed the left arrow key missing presses
01:41:05 <moon_> its possible to se my most used keys
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01:41:28 <moon_> 'wasdetvcuio' in decending order
01:41:35 <oerjan> (ironically, it started going bad just _after_ it been at service with a full internal cleaning)
01:42:22 <moon_> i play video games
01:42:27 <moon_> i used to play them all the time
01:42:31 * oerjan doesn't play that many games. mostly tatham's puzzles, which don't use wasd.
01:42:33 <moon_> until i discovered #esoteric
01:43:13 <moon_> how ta fuck did eyelashes get under the numpad 0?
01:43:25 <oerjan> you inspected too closely?
01:43:59 <moon_> keyboards are disgusting
01:44:12 <moon_> i just quoted XKCD
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01:45:09 <oerjan> https://xkcd.com/237/ for those following along from home.
01:45:19 -!- moon_ has joined.
01:45:32 <oerjan> <oerjan> https://xkcd.com/237/ for those following along from home.
01:45:34 <moon_> the grim on my keyboard is like gum o.o
01:45:52 <oerjan> i don't think my keyboard is _that_ grimy.
01:46:18 <oerjan> you probably need some kind of solvent.
01:46:36 <moon_> im going to scrub this thing to death tommorow >_>
01:47:07 <oerjan> just don't make that literal
01:47:28 <quintopia> oerjan: in the U.S. of that time "Negro" had been too long associated with "slave" to be considered polite. It wasn't until the early 20th that it came back into polite usage.
01:48:09 <moon_> uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujhij8ijnuijijhjhj8jjj8ji8ujjhjhujjjuuj8uijjjjjhjhyhyhjyhyhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyhmikkj9jkiuyhhghguhuhuhuhuhhhgygyghghgyhhhhhyhyuhhy7yh77y7tt7h7y77t7ttb7
01:48:10 <oerjan> quintopia: so you were _not_ mistyping 1960s?
01:48:32 <oerjan> moon_: i try to avoid doing such things with windows in focus hth
01:48:44 <oerjan> (not always successfully)
01:49:47 <oerjan> . o O ( does wikipedia have a chart of the historical development of that euphemism treadmill )
01:51:15 <moon_> havocbot will be put online via debian in just a few minutes
01:52:32 <moon_> tip: never run apt list directly
01:54:31 <oerjan> "Etymologically, the eupheme is the opposite of the blaspheme "evil-speaking." The term euphemism itself was used as a euphemism by the ancient Greeks, meaning "to keep a holy silence" (speaking well by not speaking at all)."
01:56:53 <shachaf> "euphemism" sounds like it would have more of an itymology
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01:57:29 <quintopia> oerjan: frying pan needed in aisle 4
01:58:12 <oerjan> quintopia: i cannot, itymology is an official term hth
01:58:15 <moon_> i got the root password done wrong, i didnt type the right one
01:59:31 <shachaf> oerjan: But did I ever get swatted for it before it was official?
01:59:39 <shachaf> Assuming it was my term. I can't remember.
01:59:50 <shachaf> `1 hg log wisdom/itymology
02:00:41 <shachaf> `1 hg log wisdom/itymology
02:00:52 <HackEgo> 1/1:changeset: 7632:d34b4bb2e28f \ user: HackBot \ date: Sat Apr 30 04:26:19 2016 +0000000 \ summary: <oerjan> learn Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement. \ \
02:01:46 <moon_> what file should i edit using the recovery shell?
02:01:52 <moon_> to reset the root password?
02:02:09 <oerjan> does /etc/passwd work these days
02:03:21 <moon_> and what does etc/passwd usually contain (like a example)
02:03:46 * oerjan is just wildly guessing. certainly it doesn't contain passwords these days.
02:03:57 <oerjan> in fact it's world readable on this server.
02:05:38 <moon_> NOW havocbot will be up in a few minutes
02:05:46 <moon_> and no root privs >_>
02:06:28 <moon_> any requests for installed software? :P
02:06:37 <moon_> im planning on GHC by the way
02:07:49 <moon_> oerjan? any requests?
02:09:43 <oerjan> i'm not planning to use it so...
02:11:00 <moon_> ybden: any requests for software on havocbot 2.0? :P
02:16:31 <moon_> can i have a list of commands that can be used to shut down linux?
02:18:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: shutdown: not found
02:18:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quit: not found
02:18:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: exit: not found
02:18:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logout: not found
02:19:17 <oerjan> i'd assume none are supposed to do that without superuser privileges
02:20:02 <moon_> how can i prevent the bot from running those on my debian virtual machine?
02:20:30 <oerjan> and also, that with superuser privileges you can pretty much bootstrap whatever power you want
02:20:55 <moon_> also, the bot has no superuser privs
02:21:02 <oerjan> just but creating a raw binary file
02:21:02 <moon_> the new version at least
02:21:24 <oerjan> then it all depends on bug exploits.
02:22:17 <oerjan> which get discovered and fixed all the time.
02:22:47 * oerjan has no idea _how_ frequently.
02:23:25 <moon_> this is the latest debian version
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02:23:40 <oerjan> should be safer than some of our other bots, then.
02:23:52 <moon_> i discovered the fakeroot command
02:23:59 <moon_> i guess i CAN let you all build packages
02:24:34 <oerjan> anyway, if you're serious about making it safer, you might want to ask an actual expert on this.
02:24:44 <oerjan> well a relative expert, anyway.
02:26:26 <moon_> any good packages you think some people from here might want on it?
02:26:52 <moon_> GHC, GCC, python-pip, and hsbrainfuck have been installed
02:27:51 <izabera> all the important ones, and ghc too
02:28:04 <moon_> important ones check
02:28:30 <moon_> any more? i think i found a way to kill network access
02:28:48 <moon_> so you *might* not be able to install packages later
02:30:04 <moon_> might not work very well
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02:34:53 <shachaf> Why not ask in #esoteric-blah, where the people who actually want to use that bot are?
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02:38:39 <Koen_> you could add a go engine
02:42:46 <moon_> [21:41] <hexxley> im rm -rf / hbot: cat videos
02:43:00 <moon_> im am certain havocbot cant cat cat videos
02:44:41 <Koen_> I meant go the game, not go the silly language
02:46:24 <moon_> well,its installed
02:46:32 <moon_> but havocbot is oneline output
02:46:53 <moon_> and would require state saving and program end support between each move
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02:50:53 <Sgeo> Hi moon_ and all
02:51:36 <moon_> im running a linux bot named havocbot, any packages i should add to it>
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03:06:29 <moon_> havocbot has multiple linux bindings for you all to work with, any C/C++ librarys you all want?
03:06:42 <moon_> oops wrong channel
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04:30:54 <izabera> https://www.blackhat.com/ oh, there's blackhat.com, nice
04:31:08 <izabera> http://www.whitehat.com/ .........disappointed
04:41:03 <shachaf> Is there a name for the naturals with the Alexandrov topology?
04:41:37 <shachaf> (On the standard total order.)
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05:16:34 <HackEgo> smlist 444: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
05:24:05 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
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06:17:50 <izabera> reading one of those lists of random memorable quotes from irc channels
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06:18:29 <izabera> would it be possible to train a neural network to tell if something is memorable?
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07:32:29 <HackEgo> Children are a fungible commodity.
07:54:57 <oerjan> ok, looks like the _immediate_ girl genius chrisis is being defused.
08:04:00 <shachaf> oerjan: is that like a religious crisis
08:15:01 <oerjan> well it did involve something resembling a resurrection
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09:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> I made a little minecraft contraption for airstrikes
09:54:27 <hppavilion[1]> You just plant a creeper named "airstrike" and it summons a column of TNT that falls and blows the area to smithereens
09:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> Interestingly, when done on perfectly flat terrain with no entities, it makes a nice deep straight hole downward
09:54:58 <hppavilion[1]> But when there are entities at the target location, there's more scatter
09:55:59 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, another interesting contraption would be an "eternal bomb"
09:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> At exactly n ticks into its life, a copy of it is spawned at its location (with the same n tick fuse and a life starting just then)
10:03:03 <hppavilion[1]> Obama spend this afternoon designating the names of post offices. Really going out with a bang, isn't he?
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10:22:22 <Moon_> Hint will be online tommrow
10:23:02 <Moon_> Any debating packages you want p it b_jonas?
10:26:47 <Moon_> Also, I'm going to make some form of CD hackin
10:27:03 <Moon_> To allow for changing
10:29:21 <b_jonas> I'm sorry, I didn't do much with hbot yet
10:30:28 -!- atrapado has joined.
10:32:11 <Moon_> Why do I care b_j ? Hint is being rebuilt right now anyways
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10:43:19 <Taneb> In the autumn I'll be learning evolutionary and quantum computation
10:44:11 <Koen_> why do you always study fun stuff?? how can I attend your university?
10:44:33 <Taneb> Koen_, University of York, and by applying, presumably
10:44:38 <Taneb> And I had to wait until my fourth year
10:45:04 <Taneb> Where's your university?
10:45:37 <b_jonas> what? that doesn't sounds like fun stuff to me
10:46:34 <Taneb> I'm also going to be doing Algebraic Geometry, Lie Algebras and Lie Groups, and Semigroup Theory
10:47:36 <b_jonas> Taneb: ah, now those sound much better (but not easy)
10:48:15 <Taneb> b_jonas, these are Masters' level modules (I'm doing an integrated master's degree)
10:48:58 <Taneb> In the spring I'll be doing functional programming, more quantum computation, and algebraic groups
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10:59:25 <Koen_> Taneb: well, I live in France
11:01:02 <Taneb> Koen_, that could be problematic, although not an insurmountable obstacle
11:01:57 <Koen_> do you mean they do correspondance courses? or are you trying to seduce me to the dark side of the rosbif
11:09:42 <b_jonas> heh, "dark side of the rosbif"
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11:11:33 <Koen_> well I will not be tempted!!
11:15:04 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, help me tempt Koen_ to the dark side of the rosbif
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11:23:15 <Taneb> Koen_, does your university do much functional programming research that you know of?
11:23:44 <Taneb> I'm trying to figure out my Grand List of Places To Apply For PhD
11:23:52 <Koen_> I know one of my teachers was involved in creating the language ReactiveML
11:24:26 <Koen_> a "reactive" version of ocaml
11:24:50 <Taneb> Might be worth a shot
11:24:53 <Koen_> so I guess that should count as functional, though I've got no clue what reactive means (I tried reading his papers. they might as well have been written in another language)
11:24:54 <Taneb> I mean, I'd have to learn French
11:25:08 <Koen_> well, computer science researchers *usually* speak english
11:25:19 <Koen_> and foreign students is not unusual
11:25:43 <Koen_> I'm half-certain a computer science thesis has to be written in english anyway
11:26:18 <Koen_> though if you're required to be a t.a. that's gonna be in french
11:26:28 <Taneb> I'd have to learn French to survive in the country
11:26:51 <Koen_> the country will understand you, provided you speak slowly enough :)
11:27:02 <Koen_> we just don't speak english because we're so ashamed of our accent
11:27:13 <Taneb> I can't walk into a supermarché and say "I'm a computer scientist, so I get to speak English"
11:27:28 <Koen_> who said you needed to talk at all in a supermarché ? this is 2016
11:28:01 <Taneb> I don't think the self-service tills speak English, generally
11:28:05 <Taneb> Also I have my ego to think of
11:28:15 <Taneb> Imagine, living in a country whose language you do not speak
11:28:20 <Koen_> I'm sure you'll be fluent in french in three months
11:29:10 <Koen_> (you don't have to remember the gender of every noun. using random genders is foreigner's privilege)
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11:30:05 <Koen_> the go program Mogo (the first one to use monte carlo tree search) was created at my university, actually :-)
11:30:10 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
11:30:10 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions (math). He never invents anything involving sex.
11:30:28 <Taneb> Koen_, if I can't remember my own gender, I'm sure I can be excused forgetting the gender of other words
11:31:08 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
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11:31:22 <shachaf> oerjan: I thought the order of tanebventions was significant, but I guess that's being scrapped.
11:31:33 <shachaf> oerjan: In which case maybe they should just go in alphabetical order.
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11:31:47 <Taneb> shachaf, I think they should be in random order
11:31:54 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions (math). He never invents anything involving sex.
11:31:56 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
11:32:16 <shachaf> Is necessity mathematical?
11:32:27 <boily> hellochaf, Tanelle, Phantom_Helloover.
11:32:37 <Taneb> shachaf, not necessarily
11:32:57 <boily> afaiac, the canonical tanebventionorder is transcribed in the Wisdom PDF Chapter Opening Paragraph hth
11:33:01 <shachaf> Taneb: After I wrote that I realized the answer was "possibly".
11:34:49 <boily> hppavellon[1]. because that's what TNT is for?
11:35:11 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I suppose I should mention that I'm not talking about minecraft
11:35:34 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Have fun with the worldwide state of emergency
11:36:07 <boily> I'm in Canada so I'm safe, but please don't destroy the Real Life too much, eh?
11:36:47 <hppavilion[1]> In all seriousness, it isn't nearly as laggy as I would've expected
11:37:06 <coppro> boily: but if you die in Canada, you die in real life
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11:37:23 <hppavilion[1]> Sure, it's laggy enough that you can understand the way the game is programed by seeing how it handles high-stress situations
11:37:41 <hppavilion[1]> (specifically, the TNT is detonating in rounds; the explosion noises stop every now and then, then they start back up)
11:37:43 <HackEgo> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
11:39:06 <hppavilion[1]> I also have a 25x25x25 cube of *whatever* that I use for testing my airstrike device
11:39:09 <shachaf> Do they measure histamine levels in grams?
11:39:55 <hppavilion[1]> I imagine this is probably what the london blitz felt like
11:40:51 <hppavilion[1]> I also took great joy in targeting an airstrike at a village church
11:41:15 <hppavilion[1]> (not because of my bitter hatred for religion, but because churches just make the optimal target for depth-penetrating missiles in general)
11:41:55 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, I think the megacube is done, and it went really far
11:44:53 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, in minecraft, a bed actually produces a bigger explosion than TNT
11:46:51 <Phantom_Hoover> also a 25m cube of tnt would have totally crashed the game back in my day
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11:47:02 <hppavilion[1]> Bedrock is 18,000,000 whereas barriers are 18,000,003
11:47:07 <Taneb> If only we had some pitifully underused channel for talking about Minecraft
11:47:32 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: You mean like... something for just the "blah" stuff about #esoteric?
11:48:03 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], no, specifically minecraft
11:48:17 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Well I'm not a fan of the folks in #minecraft
11:48:33 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], hence a #esoteric specific one
11:49:17 <Taneb> (no-one talks there any more and it has two people in it)
11:50:06 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I was talking about a different channel, with that last message
11:50:58 <Taneb> Why am I in two pitifully underused Minecraft-specific side channels for computer science irc channels that ten minutes ago had two people in?
11:53:27 <Taneb> I'm gonna head off for a bit
11:57:13 <shachaf> Taneb: What, without inventing anything first?
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13:49:15 <hppavilion[1]> There's someone with the nick Dinnerbone on #minecraft
13:49:28 <hppavilion[1]> And I'm not sure whether it is actually Dinnerbone or just someone with the nick there to confuse people xD
13:49:51 <hppavilion[1]> It probably is the real person due to the fact that Mojang seems to actually control #minecraft
13:50:17 <hppavilion[1]> But I have the nagging feeling if I make the assumption I'll embarrass myself
14:19:48 <b_jonas> fungot, do you like google sand?
14:19:49 <fungot> b_jonas: user tty login idle fnord fnord what is not
14:20:59 <b_jonas> fungot! what crazy style are you set to? you're eating koopas
14:20:59 <fungot> b_jonas: you take it's " offset"
14:21:05 <fungot> b_jonas: actually i can't. something's not right. if it can be
14:21:43 <b_jonas> fungot: yes, something's not right. snap out of it and go to some saner style please.
14:21:43 <fungot> b_jonas: no math skills, no thinking skills, need some plain simple stuff
14:34:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47212&oldid=47211 * 216.188.250.122 * (-98)
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14:43:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47213&oldid=47212 * 216.188.250.122 * (-16)
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16:46:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Erikkonstas * New user account
16:51:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Omam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47214&oldid=36977 * Erikkonstas * (+177) Added cat program.
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19:46:07 <moon_> im working on havocbot's framework
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20:44:20 <moon_> how do i mount a disk in debian again?
20:47:55 <moon_> what filesystem does gentoo use? its apparently not EXT4
20:48:16 <moon_> and i cant reformat because this disk contains data
20:51:23 <gamemanj> moon_ type in "mount" and then find out
20:51:48 <moon_> i tried mounting the drives already, if thats wha you mean
20:51:53 <moon_> whats a 'superblock'?
20:52:07 <gamemanj> "mount" shows everything currently mounted
20:52:15 <gamemanj> unless you can't mount it, in which case...
20:52:42 <moon_> im trying to mount what used to be the /s drive
20:53:38 <moon_> it was the file that b_jonas assigned a drive to, mainly the secondary drive
21:00:35 <moon_> apparently the partition is a DOS partition?!
21:01:30 <myname> "what filesystem does gentoo use"
21:01:48 <myname> you obviosly don't use linux very much
21:01:53 <moon_> im fairly certain it is EXT4, like all linux :P
21:02:17 <gamemanj> fat32 - the universal standard, everybody loves, fat32, fat32, the universal standard - it's not outdated at all...
21:02:48 <moon_> oh, gentoo uses fat32?
21:03:19 <myname> it puts its files on whatever you serve to it
21:03:19 <gamemanj> it's what whoever decided to set the system up uses
21:03:52 <moon_> i used ext4, the default, unless b_jonas intialized the secondary drive wierdly
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21:48:47 <moon_> anyone alive? havocbot is online, and alot safer
21:50:02 <myname> where is the fun in that
21:51:01 <moon_> im no good at security
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22:27:27 <moon_> its runnin in #esoteric-blah
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23:08:24 <\oren\> hey im back in toronto!
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00:42:58 <boily> quinthellopia, mhelloon_!
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00:53:21 <moon_> havocbot is reloaded and remade
00:53:28 <moon_> now with gcc and debian
01:05:36 <shachaf> Cale: It's funny that "T-algebra" means something different from "F-algebra" when both F and T are variables.
01:06:17 <Cale> Well, really it's that monad-algebras mean something different from functor-algebras
01:07:02 <Cale> It's also funny that you seem to use some kind of modular offset when deciding in which channel to reply to me about a message :D
01:08:22 <shachaf> Oh, well, I don't talk in some channels.
01:08:32 <boily> hppavellon[1], hellochaf, Callo.
01:21:58 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/images/382.gif
01:27:03 <hppavilion[1]> I read today's and I got the joke wrong, but it was the joke that was used in the title text
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01:28:53 <moon_> boily turned #esoteric-blah into madville
01:29:08 <moon_> he/se >> ls /*/* 'd havocbot
01:29:26 <moon_> i stoped it and a flood came out that the !flush command wouldnt work
01:33:01 <boily> MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH :D
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02:02:20 <boily> the canonical porthello for Phantom__Hoover is Phantom__Helloover hth
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02:16:37 <tswett> _left_distributivity : (a b c : Element) => Multiplicative.compose a (Additive.compose b c) = Additive.compose (Multiplicative.compose a b) (Multiplicative.compose a c)
02:16:42 <tswett> Is it just me, or is that a little verbose?
02:16:51 <shachaf> `` echo wisdom/phantom*hoover
02:17:06 <HackEgo> wisdom/phantom_hoover wisdom/phantom__hoover wisdom/phantom______hoover wisdom/phantom___________________hoover wisdom/phantom________________hoover wisdom/phantom______________________________________________hoover
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02:17:34 <fungot> boily: yes, you must attend to your master.
02:17:44 <fungot> boily: i can markov if you want to do is hang out with friends. not for initially understanding a library. it should be raining, not snowing.
02:18:06 <boily> "It should be raining. It should be raining. It should be raining. Amen. ♪"
02:22:07 <shachaf> `` echo wisdom/phantom*hoover
02:22:14 <HackEgo> wisdom/phantom_hoover wisdom/phantom__hoover wisdom/phantom_______hoover wisdom/phantom______________hoover wisdom/phantom_________________hoover wisdom/phantom_____________________________hoover
02:22:29 <tswett> `` cat wisdom/phantom*hoover
02:22:32 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. \ Phantom______Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. \ It doesn't get any better than this. \ OK you got me there. \ <span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span>
02:23:09 <shachaf> What is a hatheist? Is that related to thausible?
02:23:53 <HackEgo> A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.
02:23:55 <HackEgo> hatee-hatee-hatee-hoooooooo
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03:13:13 <\oren\> I thought they don't believe in hathor
03:14:14 <quintopia> some dont believe in anne hathaway
03:14:37 <quintopia> she was faked in a hollywood studio...or so they say
03:14:50 <\oren\> I've only heard of anne hathaway, never seen her.
03:15:30 <quintopia> i dont know anyone who has seen her in person
03:15:51 <quintopia> maybe all those who claimed to were lying?
03:24:13 <Koen_> shouldn't a hatheist specifically *believe* in hath-things?
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03:31:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/med
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04:30:15 <Moon_> My friend came home drunk with a beer bottle lodged in his pants, you have three guesses on why
04:31:18 <shachaf> \oren\: she died in the 17th century hth
04:32:15 <Moon_> Wrong chat and damn enter key at the same time
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05:23:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KelsonBall * New user account
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05:42:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: decode: not found
05:45:11 <HackEgo> [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H]
05:45:38 <HackEgo> U+0008 <control> \ UTF-8: 08 UTF-16BE: 0008 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
05:46:02 <Sgeo> I don't know whether to blame SteamVR or HexChat
05:47:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47215 * KelsonBall * (+4133) Created page with "= Symbolic Brainfuck = '''Symbolic Brainfuck''' is a brainfuck derivative that adds "symbolic references" to 8 named registers, as well as adding "reference" and "dereference"..."
05:52:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47216&oldid=47215 * KelsonBall * (+2055) Added Hello World example.
05:54:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47217&oldid=47216 * KelsonBall * (+4)
05:54:23 <HackEgo> A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention.
05:55:07 <shachaf> `learn A matrix is just a matrix. Taneb invented them.
05:55:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'matrix': A matrix is just a matrix. Taneb invented them.
05:55:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47218&oldid=47217 * KelsonBall * (+35)
05:57:32 <shachaf> `le/rn modal logic/"modal logic" means "the most common logic" (that is, classical logic).
06:00:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47219&oldid=47218 * KelsonBall * (+281) Added differences section
06:01:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47220&oldid=47219 * KelsonBall * (+5)
06:02:36 <HackEgo> "per Martin-Löf" is a common citation lazy logicians use when they don't want to prove their theorems. It rarely gets past peer review.
06:03:00 <shachaf> `learn A perfunctory proof is a category-theoretical proof that cites Per Martin-Löf.
06:03:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'perfunctory': A perfunctory proof is a category-theoretical proof that cites Per Martin-Löf.
06:03:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47221&oldid=47220 * KelsonBall * (-580) /* Hello World */
06:03:55 <\oren\> `learn A Tall proof is a proof with a small hole, which can only be filled by another Tall proof.
06:03:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'tall': A Tall proof is a proof with a small hole, which can only be filled by another Tall proof.
06:04:40 <\oren\> `learn A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable.
06:04:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'stepran': A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable.
06:05:10 <shachaf> i don't get your wisdom entries
06:05:34 <\oren\> These are things my dad named after his coworkers' idiosyncrancies
06:06:31 <shachaf> Seems a little scow to use personal idiosyncrasies in this channel.
06:06:57 <\oren\> Juris Steprans is well known among people at yorku for having variables which change letters
06:07:55 <\oren\> He'll say, suppose A is a field, with... and so in the field F, we see...
06:08:38 <\oren\> Other people do this as well, but now the phenomenon has a name
06:09:24 <\oren\> uh, are you trying to page-down?
06:09:28 <shachaf> `learn A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon.
06:09:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'phenomenom': A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon.
06:10:11 <Elronnd> \oren\: I have a laggy connection
06:10:16 <Elronnd> which sometimes results in some weird stuff
06:11:22 <\oren\> yeah. the button page down actuall sends ESC [ 6 ~
06:11:41 <\oren\> so I guess the ESC didn't go through
06:13:59 <\oren\> Hmm what if a language autocorrected misspelt names?
06:14:05 <shachaf> `le/rn_append phenomenom/The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature".
06:14:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'phenomenom': A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon. The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature".
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06:27:23 <\oren\> I've started flying the same spacecraft over and over
06:30:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47222&oldid=47048 * KelsonBall * (+137) /* Related languages */ Added Symbolic Brainfuck
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06:59:41 <HackEgo> "modal logic" means "the most common logic" (that is, classical logic).
07:00:12 <shachaf> rntz: i didn't realize you were such a fan of classical logic
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07:03:58 <rntz> I'm a constructivist among the classicists and a classicist among the constructivists
07:04:41 <rntz> but it's probable that I will never not like modal logic
07:05:20 <rntz> the dual of marxist logic
07:08:02 <shachaf> rntz: Do you know anything about dual-intuitionistic logic?
07:08:12 <shachaf> The person on IRC who knew about it hasn't been around in a while.
07:08:54 <rntz> no, not really
07:09:34 <shachaf> I was wondering whether it's related to Set^op.
07:10:07 <rntz> probably not? Set is a model of classical logic, after all
07:10:31 <shachaf> Well, Hask^op. Something^op.
07:11:11 <rntz> https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.ndjfl/1039886520 is this the dual intuitionistic logic you're thinking of?
07:11:13 <shachaf> Dual-intuitionistic logic has Not (Not P) be a stronger statement than P.
07:11:41 <shachaf> Yes, I think that's the one.
07:12:00 <shachaf> You have double-negation elimination but not double-negation introduction.
07:12:30 <rntz> um, classical logic also doesn't have double-negation introduction
07:12:33 <myname> in what state is P then?
07:12:43 <rntz> I mean, you can introduce double negations, but there's no *rule* to introduce them
07:13:07 <shachaf> There's no rule to eliminate them either.
07:13:15 <rntz> no, in some formulations there is
07:13:32 <rntz> that is, classical logic can be seen as precisely intuitoinistic logic plus a rule for double negation elimination
07:13:37 <shachaf> Well, you probably get it from LEM, P | ¬P
07:13:58 <rntz> that's not the *only* way to formulate classical logic, but it's *a* way
07:14:03 <shachaf> Whereas I guess in dual-intuitionistic logic you have LEM but you don't have non-contradiction, or something?
07:14:13 <rntz> it is apparently paraconsistent, yes
07:14:29 <rntz> instead of speculating, you could read a paper :P
07:14:36 <rntz> (and then explain it to me!)
07:14:43 <shachaf> I read bit of a paper a while ago.
07:15:09 <rntz> ooh, http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11225-005-8474-7 claims a dual of intuitionistic logic is related to popperian falsification
07:15:39 <rntz> "Whereas intuitionistic logic deals with constructive truth and non-constructive falsity," uh, what
07:15:50 <rntz> negation in intuitionistic logic is totally constructive!
07:15:58 <rntz> well, constructively destructive, at any rate
07:16:08 <rntz> although I suppose one might distinguish negation from falsehood
07:16:21 <shachaf> I mean, you prove negation in constructive logic in a way that looks a lot like "proof by contradiction".
07:16:37 <rntz> yeah, because negation is *literally* "implies contradiction" :P
07:16:46 <rntz> it's perfectly constructive: you're showing how to get contradiction from X
07:17:12 <shachaf> I wish I could remember what the paper I'm thinking of is.
07:17:15 <rntz> (this is another thing where I should just read the paper to see what it means instead of mouthing off)
07:17:32 <shachaf> Well, you have an excuse, because apparently the paper costs $40 to read.
07:17:55 <shachaf> http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/11448/why-is-intuitionistic-negation-nonconstructive
07:18:12 <rntz> http://kdpu.edu.ua/shramko/files/2005_Studia_Logica_Dual_Intuitionistic_Logic_and_a_Variety_of_Negations_The_Logic_of_Scientific_Research.pdf <- "costs" "$40"
07:20:00 <shachaf> You get intuitionistic linear logic by restricting things so that there's at most one thing on the right side of the turnstile, right?
07:20:14 <shachaf> If I remember correctly you get the dual by restricting it so that there's at most one thing on the left side.
07:20:36 <shachaf> Which would make more sense to me if I had a better understanding of par, I'm sure.
07:20:37 <rntz> that seems appropriate
07:21:08 <rntz> par has a nice session-types interpretation in a one-sided setting
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07:21:27 <rntz> (A tensor B) is output A then B; (A par B) is input A then B. or something like that.
07:21:43 <rntz> wadler's sessions as types has more on that, I think
07:21:54 <shachaf> So does that seminar paper, I think.
07:21:57 <rntz> (well, not specifically on that. but it is a session-type interpretation in a one-sided setting)
07:22:04 <rntz> seminar paper?
07:23:06 <rntz> the dfa paper?
07:23:13 <rntz> wait, that uses *classical* linear logic?!
07:23:26 <rntz> no, it doesn't
07:23:41 <rntz> at least it doesn't look like it
07:24:12 <shachaf> Ah, I guess it's not for par.
07:24:30 <rntz> what were you thinking of?
07:25:47 <shachaf> "I highlight the importance of the notion of falsity for a semantical consideration of intuitionistic logic. One can find two principal (and non-equivalent) versions of such a notion in the literature, namely, falsity as non-truth and falsity as truth of a negative proposition. I argue in favor of the first version as the genuine intuitionistic notion of falsity"
07:26:04 <rntz> is this the shramko paper?
07:26:08 <rntz> that http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/11448/why-is-intuitionistic-negation-nonconstructive mentions?
07:27:32 <rntz> hm, the abstract says "and Nelson's logic takes both truth and falsity as constructive notions"
07:27:39 <rntz> what is this Nelson's logic
07:28:17 <shachaf> Wait, there are two different PDFs.
07:29:44 <shachaf> «According to the first view, “A is true” should be understood as “A has been (actually) proved”, whereas the second view interprets this as “A is (in principle) provable (A can be proved)”. In the first case truth is essentially of a temporal character. It is not uncommon that for some sentence no actual proof was available yesterday, but today we are lucky enough to obtain such a proof (re
07:29:50 <shachaf> call Fermat’s Last Theorem or ...
07:29:52 <shachaf> ... Poincaré Conjecture). In the second case we deal with a tenseless notion — a possibility of a proof of a true sentence must always be present even if nobody knows its actual proof so far (otherwise the very notion of possibility would be destroyed).»
07:31:07 <rntz> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-connexive/
07:34:44 <shachaf> rntz: I wonder if this is related to your T,F classical logic from the other day.
07:43:17 <shachaf> rntz: Is this Popperian falsifiability related to topology?
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09:04:41 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, all 14 9/11 hijackers are on the US no-fly list
09:04:55 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, obviously they were terrorists who shouldn't be allowed on airplanes
09:05:30 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, is the united states particularly concerned about zombie terrorism?
09:08:59 <HackEgo> pedantic like a STASI agent traces every unknown user. but why? game? tradition? misinformation? uncivilized sports .. ultraviolant on christmas eve. (old text: wisdom/oerjan_)
09:11:20 <shachaf> Even the codu.org page is timing out.
09:14:50 <hppavilion[1]> "My website is so broken that it couldn't find the 404 page"
09:15:20 <HackEgo> <noloveinwaikiki> le/rn oerjan/pedantic like a STASI agent traces every unknown user. but why? game? tradition? misinformation? uncivilized sports .. ultraviolant on christmas eve. (old text: wisdom/oerjan_) \ <noloveinwaikiki> le/rn oerjan/pedantic like a STASI agent traces every unknown user. but why? game? tradition? misinformation? unciviliz
09:18:00 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 8437 wisdom/oerjan > wisdom/oerjan; rm wisdom/oerjan_
09:18:41 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
09:18:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You should probably check what's in wisdom/oerjan_ first
09:19:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan wisdom/oerjan_: no such file in rev 1b910db2f8a0 \ 1/1:wisdom/oerjan wisdom/oerjan_//
09:19:53 <shachaf> I guess before doesn't work very well on multiple files.
09:20:07 <shachaf> Anyway I saw the commands on codu.org
09:20:13 <oerjan> <shachaf> Oh, hagb4rd. <-- no surprises.
09:20:21 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r -2 wisdom/oerjan_
09:20:26 <HackEgo> "Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, 'amortized' pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it"
09:21:09 <shachaf> hagb4rd is a very persistent troll.
09:21:22 <shachaf> We can thank Taneb for that, I guess.
09:21:47 <shachaf> i,i http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=333
09:22:16 <HackEgo> Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since.
09:22:56 <oerjan> it's funny, it wasn't even i who did most of the tracing last time.
09:23:08 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Resurrection.
09:24:13 <lambdabot> *** "amortize" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
09:24:13 <lambdabot> v 1: liquidate gradually [syn: {amortize}, {amortise}]
09:24:25 <lambdabot> *** "amortization" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
09:24:29 <lambdabot> n 1: the reduction of the value of an asset by prorating its
09:24:31 <lambdabot> cost over a period of years [syn: {amortization},
09:24:35 <lambdabot> 2: payment of an obligation in a series of installments or
09:24:37 <lambdabot> transfers [syn: {amortization}, {amortisation}]
09:24:55 <shachaf> the "amor ties" between two individuals are the bonds of love holding them together
09:25:05 <shachaf> n individuals, maybe i should say
09:25:41 <shachaf> I assume the kind of amortization oerjan is talking about is the algorithm analysis kind, though.
09:28:39 <oerjan> i don't know. gradual liquidation sounds like something an overlord would do.
09:28:56 <oerjan> although it's a bit of a violation of the overlord list.
09:30:23 <shachaf> I felt pretty unhelpful after all those explanations so I figured I would say something helpful for once.
09:30:55 <shachaf> i've been duly reprimanded, though
09:31:24 * oerjan did not notice the reprimand.
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09:31:51 <shachaf> Did you see all my wisdom entries?
09:32:15 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/oerjan//s/over/zombie over/
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09:32:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
09:32:57 <shachaf> Hmm, if you become amortized now, would you be a zombie emeritus overlord?
09:33:14 <oerjan> shachaf: no i did not see them.
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09:34:33 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdom/oerjan | tail -n5
09:34:46 <HackEgo> <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <shachaf> run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ Initial import.
09:34:48 <shachaf> Why did I say you were a lying Norwegian?
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09:41:54 <oerjan> obviously you were lying hth
10:23:40 <int-e> `` find wisdom wisdom -type f | wc -l
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10:26:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm surprised no one in the 0.01% is lobbying the government to allow ordinal worth
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10:28:42 <HackEgo> hppavillion[1]? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:28:53 <HackEgo> hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk
10:29:02 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type f | wc -l
10:29:19 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv.
10:29:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/hppavilion \ wisdom/hppavilion1 \ wisdom/hppavilion[1] \ wisdom/hppavilion[42]
10:29:47 <oerjan> there appears to be quite a bit of wisdom.
10:30:01 <HackEgo> Being clever is different from being wise, but they are indistinguishable in sufficiently large quantities.
10:30:02 <int-e> anyway, hppavilion[1], I find your ideas a bit too random even for this channel.
10:30:47 <shachaf> The saying I know is: "A clever person can get out of trouble that a wise person doesn't get into."
10:31:15 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, which is part of why they're indistinguishable- nothing comes of the trouble
10:33:50 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
10:37:42 <HackEgo> tac is /hackenv/bin/tac \ tac is /usr/bin/tac
10:37:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ for file do mapfile -t lines < "$file"; for (( i = ${#lines[@]} -1; i >= 0; i-- )) do printf "%s\n" "${lines[i]}"; done done
10:37:49 <shachaf> `` echo $'a\nb' | /usr/bin/tac
10:38:19 <shachaf> I don't know what it's doing but it doesn't seem to work.
10:38:34 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdm/oerjan | tac
10:38:56 <shachaf> Do you think it should stick around?
10:39:01 <izabera> you broke a perfectly valid script that didn't read stdin
10:39:09 <shachaf> Apparently /usr/bin/tac doesn't work either.
10:39:24 <shachaf> If it doesn't read stdin then it's not a perfectly valid script.
10:39:49 <int-e> `` ( echo a; echo b ) | tac
10:40:00 <izabera> it had a different purpose
10:40:06 <int-e> does hoag do anything odd?
10:40:09 <izabera> `` echo '#!/bin/bash' > bin/tac
10:40:29 <shachaf> Can you not make it shadow /usr/bin/tac if it has a different purpose?
10:40:32 <izabera> `` echo '(( $# )) || set /dev/stdin' >> bin/tac
10:40:45 <izabera> `` echo 'for file do mapfile -t lines < "$file"; for (( i = ${#lines[@]} -1; i >= 0; i-- )) do printf "%s\n" "${lines[i]}"; done done' >> bin/tac
10:41:07 <HackEgo> 10 \ 9 \ 8 \ 7 \ 6 \ 5 \ 4 \ 3 \ 2 \ 1
10:41:08 <shachaf> Making four separate commits to write one file?
10:41:28 <int-e> `` seq 10 | bin/tac
10:41:30 <HackEgo> 10 \ 9 \ 8 \ 7 \ 6 \ 5 \ 4 \ 3 \ 2 \ 1
10:41:36 <int-e> `` seq 10 | /usr/bin/tac
10:41:37 <HackEgo> 10 \ 9 \ 8 \ 7 \ 6 \ 5 \ 4 \ 3 \ 2 \ 1
10:41:59 <shachaf> `` echo -ne 'a\nb' | /usr/bin/tac
10:43:04 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/tac: line 3: --help: No such file or directory
10:43:08 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/tac: No such file or directory
10:43:14 <HackEgo> Usage: /usr/bin/tac [OPTION]... [FILE]... \ Write each FILE to standard output, last line first. \ With no FILE, or when FILE is -, read standard input. \ \ Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. \ -b, --before attach the separator before instead of after \ -r, --regex interpret the se
10:43:29 <shachaf> `` echo -ne 'a\nb' | /usr/bin/tac -b
10:43:37 <shachaf> If you want to write your own tac, why not give it a different name?
10:43:48 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdom/oerjan | bin/tac
10:43:53 <HackEgo> Initial import. \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan \ <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <oerjan> revert \ <FreeFull> revert 0 \ <oerjan> revert 999999999 \ <FreeFull> revert 4 \ <elliott> revert 1492 \ <ais52
10:43:55 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdom/oerjan | /usr/bin/tac
10:43:59 <HackEgo> Initial import. \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan \ <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <oerjan> revert \ <FreeFull> revert 0 \ <oerjan> revert 999999 \ <FreeFull> revert 4 \ <elliott> revert 1492 \ <ais523>
10:44:09 <izabera> wait let me find the problem that prompted me to write that
10:44:22 <int-e> `` echos wisdom/*/
10:44:24 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: echos: command not found
10:44:34 <HackEgo> wisdom/le/ wisdom/¯\(°_o)/ wisdom/¯\(°_o)/
10:44:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/brain \ wisdom/quebec \ wisdom/opposite \ wisdom/false \ wisdom/delve \ wisdom/spaghetti stack \ wisdom/webcarting \ wisdom/syntactic sugar \ wisdom/québec \ wisdom/⊥ \ wisdom/pk
10:44:46 <shachaf> `` rgrep -lP '\btac\b' wisdom
10:44:59 <shachaf> `` rgrep -lP '\btac\b' bin
10:45:13 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ find /var/irclogs/_esoteric -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type f -name '????-??-??.txt' | sort -r | xargs -d'\n' -r tac -- | grep "^..:..:..: <$1>" | head -n 1
10:46:00 <izabera> `` /usr/bin/tac <(seq 3) <(seq 3)
10:46:14 <izabera> i don't remember for sure but it was related to this i think
10:46:20 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/tac: cannot create temporary file in `/tmp': Invalid argument \ 3 \ 2 \ 1
10:46:46 <shachaf> You wrote a different program.
10:46:57 <shachaf> I suggest giving it a different name.
10:47:15 <izabera> for all sane purposes works exactly like tac and does the right thing in a few cases where the actual tac is broken
10:47:58 <izabera> `` rm bin/tac and fuck you
10:48:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `and': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `fuck': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `you': No such file or directory
10:48:12 <shachaf> I was thinking more `mv bin/tac bin/tax
10:48:34 <int-e> another traditional name would be yatac
10:48:37 <shachaf> I've been irritated by the lack of working tac in HackEgo for months now.
10:48:56 <shachaf> I finally looked into it and realized it wasn't caused by what I thought.
10:49:02 <int-e> (ironically cc isn't exactly a compiler compiler, despite "yacc" suggesting otherwise)
10:49:21 <izabera> it can compile compilers tho
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10:49:38 <izabera> maybe that was its original intended purpose
10:49:48 <izabera> then people realized it can also be used for regular programs
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10:50:13 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, I get it, "attack".
10:50:15 <int-e> in an alternative universe, maybe
10:50:21 <shachaf> I was thinking it was a DNA thing.
10:50:25 <int-e> shachaf: also , twice "tac".
10:50:38 <b_jonas> int-e: and cpp isn't a compiler for cplusplus
10:50:39 <int-e> haha, I didn't see that :)
10:54:24 <shachaf> Hmm, "guanine" is derived from "guano".
11:02:56 <oerjan> well it sounds like the place for a zombie attack hth
11:04:49 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH :D <-- excuse me, there appears to be a slight problem with your sanity...
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11:10:18 <hppavilion[1]> There are not nearly enough velociraptors equipped with lasers in space
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11:13:19 <Koen_> wouldn't it be more efficient to equip them with reactors?
11:15:46 <HackEgo> stepran//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable.
11:15:56 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/stepran{,s}
11:16:30 <HackEgo> steprans//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable.
11:17:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm glad someone just mentioned it so I can watch it more
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11:22:58 <lambdabot> oerjan said 18m 8s ago: <boily> MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH :D <-- excuse me, there appears to be a slight problem with your sanity...
11:23:12 <boily> my sanity is perfectly functional. I am sane hth
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11:27:39 <HackEgo> astslash: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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11:31:21 <b_jonas> boily: is that like a boojum?
11:33:49 <boily> b_jellonas. these terms are unknown to me. most likely they are alike.
11:38:03 -!- yorick__ has changed nick to yorick.
11:45:14 <b_jonas> do you happen to know why the heck ImageMagick's official windows installer binaries are often broken these days?
11:45:58 <b_jonas> I like ImageMagick, but if half of their windows builds just fail mysteriously, that makes them pretty difficult to use.
11:46:05 <b_jonas> They didn't used to be like this.
11:52:38 <hppavilion[1]> From the people who brought you Stormfront or SJW: ____________
11:59:45 <HackEgo> algebraic chess notation//Algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess.
12:13:38 <HackEgo> arithmetical chess notation? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:13:47 <HackEgo> geometric chess notation? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:14:26 <HackEgo> Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation.
12:14:29 <Taneb> Algebraic chess is chess that is also an algebraic variety, such that moves are given by regular functions on the variety
12:14:36 <boily> wait. pawn was removed? :(
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12:19:18 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, there's probably a video game based on the movie
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12:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> You can REALLY tell a place is fucked up when it is a /democratic people's republic/
12:32:47 <int-e> . o O ( or if it has /united/ in its name... )
12:34:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think the word "democratic" alone is a pretty bad sign. i make an exception for Greece. oh wait...
12:35:03 <oerjan> (technically Greece uses the noun iirc)
12:35:16 <int-e> perhaps with the exception of the "United Mexican States"
12:35:35 <int-e> (I didn't know *that* official name)
12:37:20 <oerjan> i'm going with "never existed"
12:37:41 <oerjan> `le/rn pawn/*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA*
12:49:41 <b_jonas> HackEgo: yes, it's the people that are democratic, not the republic
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13:31:29 <izabera> a friend of mine made a fuck machine
13:31:38 <izabera> it's an arduino in a box, with a button
13:31:45 <izabera> you press the button and it says fuck
13:35:42 <MDude> Amazing technology.
13:39:26 <gamemanj> also, can I crowdfund a private use character, U+F800?
13:40:04 <gamemanj> (Displays as on your system.)
13:40:47 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: I can't tell what you're seeing
13:41:21 <HackEgo> U+F800 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef a0 80 UTF-16BE: f800 Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+F800 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
13:41:32 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: it's something your font's designer did
13:41:47 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: is it \oren\'s ?
13:41:51 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: so pasting it won't help... we'll need a screenshot
13:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: I thought gamemanj was confused about what I was referring to
13:43:00 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Good job using a low-enough-res image that it's illegible
13:43:08 <izabera> gamemanj: what is it, a screenshot for ants?
13:43:17 <gamemanj> No biscuit for that screenshot program.
13:43:30 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Also, why the hell are you running literally the same set of programs that I'm always running?
13:44:24 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Oh, that's another Jetbrains IDE I guess
13:44:34 <hppavilion[1]> It looks the same as PyCharm because they use the same UI layout
13:45:44 <gamemanj> http://i.imgur.com/9AG0fBL.png
13:46:45 <gamemanj> it's the difference between the "i." and no "i."
13:47:14 <gamemanj> I just realized I already... Ok, anyone who wants to see the full screenshot just refresh. I'm confused.
13:48:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Why does the lookup of heart letters not include umlautic letters?
13:48:29 <gamemanj> For future reference: "copyright ID" is part of "copyright IDEA" (I was trying to figure out how to get the Copyright module to mass-copy the same notice all over a project)
13:49:04 <gamemanj> "MessageBoxA" is an old tab and semi-related (Figure out what the software does and that should help)
13:49:22 <hppavilion[1]> God, when looking for something in an image I always consider ctrl+f for a nanosecond
13:49:27 <gamemanj> And the rest you should be able to figure out yourself
13:50:18 <int-e> hmm, I can honestly say that I have no IDEA.
13:51:10 <int-e> mixing java, nasm and gtk... sounds fun.
13:51:41 <int-e> and is "linearizing" some sort of topological sorting?
13:52:08 <gamemanj> int-e: "linearizing" is my "I may as well name it something" way of putting "Making the address in the file equal to the RVA"
13:52:47 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: "Between 50 and 70 billion cells die each day due to apoptosis in the average human adult." hth
13:53:55 <gamemanj> Because 1. it's more convenient to edit that way, and 2. certain assembler/patcher programs have this habit of subtracting 0x400000 and otherwise patching raw, which is fine when .text is at 0x1000.
13:53:57 <int-e> gamemanj: (connecting dots at random) oh you're still pushing bytes?
13:54:06 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Yes, when I say a little piece of me died I mean on top of the 50-70 billion
13:54:20 <gamemanj> int-e: If you didn't read the class list...
13:54:29 <gamemanj> int-e: PESection, PESectionBuilder, ResourceImage.
13:54:35 <int-e> gamemanj: I did, it just didn't ring any bells
13:54:44 <int-e> and I'm too lazy to google
13:55:04 <int-e> I have to admit that PESection could've worked.
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13:56:00 <int-e> But basically all I know about PE executables is that they exist and are used in Windows (and have been there since ages).
13:58:43 <hppavilion[1]> "A free citizen has all of the rights of a US citizen while not following any of their laws"
13:59:11 <hppavilion[1]> Honestly, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zHRQn_IShw is evidence that cops average to /more/ peaceful than your average american
14:04:22 <hppavilion[1]> Like, even if every other cop in the country was literally a serial killer
14:05:10 <int-e> averages don't make the press
14:07:55 <hppavilion[1]> Fuck the New World Order, I want to go back to the Old World Order
14:08:37 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: how about a New New World Order?
14:08:37 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: That cop has maxed out his patience stat, but I don't think one good cop instantly absolves all the bad ones either
14:09:14 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: It doesn't absolve them, but it skews the average
14:09:39 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: The average person hasn't orchestrated a racial genocide, but that doesn't mean those who did are absolved
14:09:54 <b_jonas> also, second detection of gravitational wave event was announced today
14:10:55 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Perhaps the aliens are trying to remove us from the universe?
14:10:56 <b_jonas> now build a couple of more earth-based detectors so that the locations can be found more easily, then also build some space-based detectors
14:11:18 <HackEgo> metallic hydrogen? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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14:46:25 <hppavilion[1]> I want a counter sign that says "It has been [x] days since someone updated this sign"
14:46:50 <moon_> harhar, ask the company 'Basic Millworks' i beleive its on ebay
14:47:00 <moon_> proffessional looking signs :P
14:51:22 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: http://www.xkcd.com/363/ ?
14:53:09 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, just as I mentioned that I got to the good part of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfdxqRXM6Sc&list=PLA1F18BC2CFDB46FF&index=29
14:53:14 <moon_> buy it in wood from Basic Millworks if you do want it
14:53:27 <moon_> it will come prestained
14:53:37 <moon_> basically usable from the start
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15:24:02 <b_jonas> are they fools or something?
15:26:10 <moon_> mind setting up a swap on the new hbot?
15:27:13 <b_jonas> moon_: why don't you just add a proper swap partition (whether on a separate hard disk or an existing one)? that would be much better than a swap file, I just didn't want to risk doing it from the inside, but it's easier from the outside.
15:27:47 <b_jonas> moon_: add a swap partition, add it to fstab, swapon -a
15:28:04 <b_jonas> add a swap partition, mkswap, add it to fstab, swapon -a
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15:42:38 <moon_> b_jonas: thx, i added 2 gb of SWAP to it
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16:59:52 <\oren\> my phones ui process just segfaulted
17:04:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47223&oldid=47221 * KelsonBall * (+105)
17:05:26 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, how can you tell that?
17:05:37 <b_jonas> I mean, how did you debug what happened if there's no ui?
17:05:46 <b_jonas> did it get saved to a log persistent over reboot or something?
17:13:01 <\oren\> the ui rebooted and said an error toast about android.ui.something having a segfault
17:14:09 <\oren\> also my stupid macbook wont connect to the stupid vpn again argh
17:15:59 <\oren\> my phone on the other hand connects just fine...
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17:34:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47225&oldid=47223 * KelsonBall * (+2278) /* Hello World */ Added in depth explanation of example program.
17:35:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47226&oldid=47225 * KelsonBall * (+0) /* Hello World */
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18:06:15 <\oren\> uhh what does hbot do?
18:10:17 <MoonyTheDwarf> its havocbot, a debian linux shell bot, it has a few users as of now
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18:16:11 <\oren\> i wonder how hard it would be to make a program that compiles shell scripts into native executables
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18:19:09 <\oren\> iow it would convert them into a program with a bunch of forks dup2s and execs
18:20:35 <gamemanj> well, you could do it without invoking the C compiler if you were crazy enough
18:21:52 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
18:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> `learn HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you assume a spherical cow in a vacuum. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
18:22:40 <HackEgo> Relearned 'hackego': HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you assume a spherical cow in a vacuum. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
18:22:47 <\oren\> well i wonder how much of a typical configure script spends being parsed...
18:23:55 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist 2016-06-16
18:23:57 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist 2016-06-16: b_jonas
18:24:01 <b_jonas> wow, two updates so close to each other
18:29:01 <shachaf> Maybe the list shoudl just print the current date by default.
18:29:13 <gamemanj> now, time to read my wisdom entry...
18:29:18 <gamemanj> in an absurdly overcomplicated manner
18:29:20 <gamemanj> `cat wisdom/*gamemanj* > /dev/tcp/gamemanj.duckdns.org/25561
18:29:22 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/*gamemanj* > /dev/tcp/gamemanj.duckdns.org/25561: No such file or directory
18:29:32 <gamemanj> ``cat wisdom/*gamemanj* > /dev/tcp/gamemanj.duckdns.org/25561
18:29:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
18:29:37 <gamemanj> `` cat wisdom/*gamemanj* > /dev/tcp/gamemanj.duckdns.org/25561
18:29:38 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: gamemanj.duckdns.org: Name or service not known \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /dev/tcp/gamemanj.duckdns.org/25561: Invalid argument
18:30:31 <shachaf> Why did you rewrite HackEgo?
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18:40:12 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Because there were not enough spherical cow jokes
18:40:43 <shachaf> I think there were too many already.
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18:41:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiser: not found
18:41:11 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/echo-p
18:41:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
18:41:16 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mkx
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18:42:20 <shachaf> I suggest putting that joke somewhere else if you think it's necessary.
18:42:37 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''bin/\? "$@" && echo -n " Taneb invented it."' > bin/wiser && chmod a+x bin/wiser
18:42:52 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
18:42:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiser: not found
18:43:01 <shachaf> b_jonas: I Don't think that ought to be automated.
18:43:25 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/wiser: No such file or directory
18:43:39 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/hackego
18:43:42 <shachaf> I didn't intend to revert it, though.
18:44:05 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''bin/\? "$@" && echo -n " Taneb invented it."' > bin/wiser && chmod a+x bin/wiser && echo " written"; echo " done"
18:44:09 <shachaf> Even if that was automated, using ? isn't the right thing to do.
18:44:25 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! \ Taneb invented it.
18:44:30 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. \ Taneb invented it.
18:44:31 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
18:44:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, it needs a more refined definition, one that strips the unnecessary newline, and doesn't add a second copy if the wisdom is already wise
18:45:26 <shachaf> Oh, it doesn't actually overwrite the file.
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20:36:18 * moon_ slaps Elronnd around a bit with a large trout
20:38:36 * moon_ slaps myname around a bit with a large trout
20:40:15 * moon_ replaces the trout with a fishbot
20:42:56 <gamemanj> excuse me, but I'm a representative of the trout worker's union
20:43:05 <gamemanj> it seems you are replacing your trout staff with fishbots
20:43:17 <gamemanj> and they, as trout, consider this to be a rather anti-trout action
20:43:32 * moon_ brutally slaps gamemanj with a fishbot
20:44:01 * moon_ fires water at gamemanj
20:44:33 * moon_ wastes a beat the boss 4 heart on gamemanj
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20:45:04 * moon_ slaps ex with a fishbot
20:45:16 <gamemanj> as you can see EX_ was wise enough to leave
20:45:21 <gamemanj> before being slapped with a fishbot
20:45:27 <gamemanj> also, BTW, you only slapped a clone of me
20:45:43 * moon_ slaps gamemanj with a fishbot
20:46:04 <gamemanj> ...another clone. Did I mention that I get insurance money to make more clones every time you do that?
20:46:29 * moon_ slaps all the gamemanjs with a fishbot
20:46:56 * gamemanj is still alive (in a bunker somewhere in north-east Hull), but the clones are dead
20:47:35 <moon_> Why are we at war in #esoteric?
20:47:45 <gamemanj> because you like slapping people with fishbots
20:48:03 <gamemanj> and anyway, have you noticed no offensive on my part yet?
20:48:31 * gamemanj un-shields a Dramatic Shielded Button (tm)
20:48:40 * gamemanj then lowers his finger to press it
20:49:18 * gamemanj (seeing moon_ eat the fake button the clone was holding on a remote screen), presses the REAL button.
20:49:38 * gamemanj then watches as a tractor beam sends the moon_ out of Earth's orbit.
20:50:07 * moon_ flys back and hits earth
20:50:36 * gamemanj notices a splat moon_ on the bunker's windshield, and (remotely, of course) wipes it off with royal water.
20:50:54 <moon_> But im the moon >:
20:51:09 <gamemanj> (if you're the moon then you destroyed earth and probably yourself)
20:51:29 <moon_> ik, im kidding just to get a long explanation.
20:51:54 <gamemanj> (ALL EARTH LIFE NIL. MOON_ NIL. NOBODY WINS.)
20:52:11 <gamemanj> Oh, flip, moon_ stole my cloning technology while looking through my windshield!
20:52:31 * moon_ has millions of finger biting clones
20:52:47 * moon_ the gamemanj's are covered in fingerbiting clones, with fishbots
20:52:48 * gamemanj attempts to arrange a peace treaty with moon_
20:52:59 <gamemanj> please, we both have infinity + 1 clones
20:53:16 <gamemanj> you don't hit me with any fishbots and I won't try to kill your clones
20:53:34 * moon_ uses his clones to make a new moon
20:54:18 * gamemanj is happy with this peace treaty, and intends to discuss cloning theory with moon_ sometime while drinking tea
20:54:19 <moon_> *Somewhere else in a few years* The ball of flesh is really nice tonight
20:54:59 * moon_ is genetically wierd
20:55:29 * gamemanj doesn't really care, the BoF is better than the WoF - for one, it doesn't try to kill anyone
21:04:25 <moon_> Mmm frozen raspberrys
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21:50:26 <gamemanj> you know your ide has turned against you when it says that variable "x" should not be passed to parameter "y"... except there's only one parameter to the function.
21:51:07 <gamemanj> (And it's called "y" because that's what the IDE set it as when the function was magically created.)
21:53:06 <shachaf> I suggest that #esoteric-blah is better for this conversation.
21:54:09 <myname> are you one of these people that assume people have white background for irc?
21:54:13 <int-e> is MoonyTheDwarf related to moon_?
21:54:42 <myname> yeah, the relation is reflexive, symmetric and transitive
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21:55:32 <moon_> yea, i forgot to change my nick
21:55:33 <int-e> though I guess the fact that "rainbow" has 7 letters deserves a honorable mention.
21:55:49 <int-e> shachaf: a guess, by myname's reaction.
21:56:03 <moon_> I certainly do myname
21:56:25 <myname> moon_: let me assure you, it's a false assumption
21:56:41 <myname> therefore, your r is black letters on black background for me
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21:57:48 <myname> slightly less horrible
21:59:46 <moon_> qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./
22:00:27 <int-e> `` rainbow <<<rainbow
22:02:30 <int-e> `` cat <<<'a standard bash feature for feeding input to programs (also found in zsh, I do not know where it originated)'
22:02:32 <HackEgo> a standard bash feature for feeding input to programs (also found in zsh, I do not know where it originated)
22:12:56 <shachaf> my irc client has scriptable rainbows hth
22:12:59 <int-e> that's the best approximation I could find (and I typed that manually)
22:14:34 <int-e> (typing ^C in irssi will insert a literal ^C, so mirc color codes can be entered that way)
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22:15:15 <int-e> (other clients may simply terminate if you do that...)
22:16:10 <moon_> I think ASIE did it?
22:20:47 <int-e> maybe, though apparently there's an add-on for weechat that uses ^C for inserting color codes...
22:21:40 <int-e> ...which suggests that maybe it doesn't terminate the program
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22:27:16 <HackEgo> Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
22:27:49 <int-e> UserFriendly reference, hmm
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22:33:43 <int-e> ah it's actually straightforward to find http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19991208
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23:19:51 <\oren\> supposedly the vpn will be more reliable if i upgrade to el captain
23:23:33 <\oren\> well whatever worse to worse ill just use time machine
23:24:22 <\oren\> stupid unreliable proprietary os
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23:33:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47227&oldid=47202 * KelsonBall * (+25) /* Added symbolic brainfuck */
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01:06:21 <izabera> https://blog.codinghorror.com/content/images/uploads/2006/11/6a0120a85dcdae970b0128776fec64970c-pi.png
01:28:28 <Yurume_> I mean, there is a fundamental difference between cmdline UI and interactive UI
01:28:53 <Yurume_> converting from one to another is bound to be doomed
01:29:50 <Cale> nah, this was just poorly done
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02:39:08 <boily> NINJA QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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02:39:49 <zzo38> Hello, do you know what email header is X-Yahoo-Newman-Property X-YMail-OSG meaning?
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03:09:16 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/password
03:09:53 <HackEgo> The password of the month is kOMMlIEBERmAIuNDmACHE
03:09:53 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000000 0 51 May 2 01:20 wisdom/password
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03:11:09 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is viskalikkjesovabortsumarnatta
03:11:13 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is viskalikkjesovabortsumarnatta
03:12:39 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is vïskAlikkjesOvab0rtsUmarnatta
03:12:44 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is vïskAlikkjesOvab0rtsUmarnatta
03:12:59 <shachaf> Why does the password of the month capitalize some letters and replace others with digits?
03:13:20 <oerjan> because of stupid password filters hth
03:14:22 <shachaf> Why not just always put the same digit and uppercase letter and symbol at the end of every password?
03:15:08 <oerjan> because that ruins the scansion hth
03:15:33 <shachaf> Why not just always put "hth" at the end of every password?
03:15:55 <oerjan> still ruins the scansion tdnh
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05:38:36 <izabera> `` cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid
05:38:57 <HackEgo> 480374de-d9c2-4f29-b377-463d2fc51552
05:39:28 <izabera> `` for i in {1..100}; do [[ $(< /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid) = ????????-????-4???-[89ab]???-???????????? ]] || echo x; done
05:41:52 <oerjan> i would not use that word...
05:45:31 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_unique_identifier#Version_4_.28random.29
05:47:05 <shachaf> The best part is when someone generates a UUID that uses their MAC address and thereby leaks information about certain iDs being associated with each other.
05:48:34 <zzo38> What I do is to use the MAC address of a device I own that I do not connect to the internet.
05:50:47 <shachaf> zzo38: Why not just generate a truly random UUID?
06:04:37 <zzo38> There is a possibility of collision, which is reduced if the MAC address is used
06:07:59 <shachaf> But collision is unlikely.
06:08:07 <shachaf> There are 122 bits in a random UUID.
06:09:46 <shachaf> I wish people used something more compact than hexadecimal for long random bitstrings.
06:13:45 <izabera> `` printf %s%s-%s-4%.3s_%s-%s%s%s\\n $(od -N16 -xAn /dev/urandom) | sed 's/_[0123]/-8/;t;s/_[4567]/-9/;t;s/_[89ab]/-a/;t;s/_[cdef]/-b/'
06:13:54 <HackEgo> aa5f7646-300d-4643-b420-6686a873f057
06:15:37 <izabera> `` printf %s%s-%s-4%.3s_%s-%s%s%s\\n $(od -N16 -xAn /dev/urandom) | sed 's/_[0-3]/-8/;t;s/_[4-7]/-9/;t;s/_[89ab]/-a/;t;s/_[c-f]/-b/'
06:15:44 <HackEgo> 74aa2623-2c08-4ff8-b9b3-6673191faa91
06:15:46 <pikhq> I am quite happy to say that a 1/(2^122-1) chance collision is not one that concerns me.
06:16:35 <shachaf> pikhq: See, that's why we put zzo38 in charge when security is important.
06:16:36 <oerjan> izabera: [8-b] probably works too
06:16:58 <lifthrasiir> locale dependent, though it would be technically same for digits as well
06:17:13 <izabera> digits are always consecutive
06:18:06 <lifthrasiir> but I meant that the relative ordering of digits and letters is unspecified
06:18:24 <pikhq> And things in the basic charset are locale-invariant on any given implementation as well.
06:18:42 <pikhq> lifthrasiir: "On any given implementation".
06:18:56 <pikhq> An EBCDIC C system cannot have an ASCII locale.
06:19:19 <pikhq> But likewise, an ASCII C system cannot have an EBCDIC locale.
06:20:02 <izabera> it's fine to be unportable as long as it works on HackEgo :P
06:21:58 <lifthrasiir> izabera: the final s/_[c-f]/-b/ can be s/_./-b/
06:22:22 <izabera> that's some serious progress
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07:02:00 <hppavilion[1]> Aphasia: "This class of language disorder ranges from having difficulty remembering words to being completely unable to speak, read, or write."
07:19:54 <hppavilion[1]> Why are you hiring scientific programmers who use /pound seconds/!?
07:20:28 <shachaf> That's right. American programmers ought to use dollar-seconds.
07:20:46 <shachaf> And given that it's Lockheed Martin, they ought to use quite a few of them.
07:20:49 <hppavilion[1]> The page on Lockheed Martin Space Systems doesn't even mention it
07:21:04 <pikhq> Or mill-milliseconds, so you can avoid floats or fixed-point arithmetic. :D
07:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> Though it would require constant access to all birth and death certificates
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08:11:28 <hppavilion[1]> Sovereign Citizens: Because stupid people are funny
08:15:36 <HackEgo> hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
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08:48:17 <hppavilion[2]> Cracked has an article called "The 23 Most Disastrous Fictional Sexual Encounters Possible"
08:48:28 <hppavilion[2]> The cover is Lady from Lady and the Tramp and Clifford the Big Red Dog
09:00:24 <oerjan> hint: all list sites are crap.
09:02:28 <oerjan> well, all 5-20-items clickbait lists, anyway.
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09:03:37 <HackEgo> [U+1680 OGHAM SPACE MARK]
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09:19:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: length: not found
09:20:18 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
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09:27:27 <b_jonas> oh come on! just link her up with Faye already! they've both had their apartments burned down, and I think they'd be a good match. and since Brun is a barkeep, she could even work in the Coffee of Doom.
09:30:50 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions (math). He never invents anything involving sex.
09:30:54 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
09:31:02 <shachaf> Shouldn't that be "Tanebventions (maths)"?
09:31:45 <shachaf> It might be better if it was e.g. "tanebventions: math", so pluralization would work automatically.
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09:36:14 <b_jonas> `slashlearn block device/Block devices are a concession made in Unix to make raw hard disks and magnetic tape have a similar interface to regular files and terminals. Since magnetic tapes can't write individual bytes, only entire blocks, the interface isn't exactly the same, thus the dreaded dd obs= option was born.
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09:37:31 <shachaf> I was going to `le/rn block device/A block device is a device such that I/O operations to it can block.
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09:41:52 <shachaf> But I don't think your entry is very wisdomy.
09:42:07 <shachaf> On the other hand you've been adding so many entries like it that the standard for wisdomy is shifting.
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09:50:08 <oerjan> of _course_ she got away with the lantern. :( wondering if aldin and larana are planning a detour.
09:52:02 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/tanebvention{" (math)",": math"}
09:52:09 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `wisdom/tanebvention (math)': No such file or directory
09:52:20 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/tanebvention{"s (math)",": math"}
09:52:58 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/tanebvention{,s}": math"
09:53:37 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/ [(]math[)/: math/
09:53:40 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 20: unterminated `s' command
09:53:48 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/ [(]math[)]/: math/
09:53:51 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
09:54:10 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
09:54:24 <b_jonas> oerjan: the universe should count as mathematical
09:54:49 <Cale> Stephen Wolfram
09:54:52 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's disputed hth
09:55:15 <Cale> `? Stephen Wolfram
09:55:17 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
09:55:33 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
09:55:42 <HackEgo> The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
09:56:07 <oerjan> i've forgotten what the overt was for
09:57:14 <HackEgo> quebec//Attache ta tuque with the spindle; there is around here fret!
09:57:36 <HackEgo> latin//LATINA EST SUBLIMISSIMA LINGUA MUNDI
09:57:46 <b_jonas> fungot, quebec//Attache ta tuque with the spindle; there is around here fret!
09:57:46 <fungot> b_jonas: so should it be something like that, does anyone want anything from lieksa? will be attending in the spring
09:57:58 <oerjan> i guess b_jonas hasn't shifted it _that_ much yet.
09:58:21 <HackEgo> iyam//IYAM is like IANAL, except yam instead of anal.
09:58:57 <HackEgo> <tswett> learn IYAM is like IANAL, except yam instead of anal.
10:00:39 * oerjan wonders if HackEgo gets clogged when used too much
10:00:56 <shachaf> oerjan: i think everything in this channel gets clogged hth
10:00:58 <hppavilion[2]> 'The Internet gets a bad rap for being the refuge of the socially maladjusted and sexually deviant (wait, can something still be considered a "bad rap" if it's true?).'
10:01:12 <oerjan> i knew you were going to say that.
10:01:20 <shachaf> Cale: Do you know any good Tanebventions? Feel free to add them to the list.
10:01:57 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.
10:02:08 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
10:02:20 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
10:02:48 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/G/self-serve frozen yogurt, G/
10:02:59 <oerjan> shachaf: ok 5 wisdoms and none were excessively b_jonased.
10:03:30 <shachaf> They weren't in a row so it didn't count.
10:03:35 <oerjan> b_jonas: yes. we'll get you some time.
10:03:48 <oerjan> shachaf: huh? they were intended to be in a row.
10:04:08 <oerjan> also, if that doesn't count then it doesn't count if any of yours time out >:P
10:04:30 <oerjan> (just as a lesson to people who throw up 5 commands at once)
10:04:39 <shachaf> 5 commands at once used to be the gold standard.
10:05:08 <oerjan> shachaf: hm we need fizzie to do statistics.
10:05:26 <shachaf> Presumably anyone can do statistics.
10:05:39 <shachaf> You just need the repository, right?
10:05:48 <shachaf> Or did you want log statistics?
10:06:07 <oerjan> it's not like `quote shows up in the repository
10:06:38 <HackEgo> grue//grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean
10:06:39 <HackEgo> oren//oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a.
10:06:39 <HackEgo> forty//forty means "in a fort-like manner"
10:07:02 <oerjan> i don't think any of those are excessively b_jonased either.
10:07:58 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
10:08:11 <shachaf> I kind of want to make a wisdom entry with a newline in its name.
10:08:41 <oerjan> i guess you need some of those -0 options, then.
10:09:39 <b_jonas> oerjan: but those are only three, not five
10:10:16 <shachaf> `` while true; do F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; C="$(culprits "$F")"; [[ $C == *b_jonas* ]] || continue; (echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//"; cat "$F") | rnooodl; break; done
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10:11:51 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s/type f/type f -print0/;s/shuf/shuf -z/
10:12:25 <shachaf> Won't that leave the zero in the shuf output?
10:13:11 <shachaf> Hmm, that'll have a funny failure mode.
10:13:18 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
10:13:19 <shachaf> It just won't show the //?
10:14:54 <HackEgo> shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
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10:15:29 <HackEgo> terminal symbol//A terminal symbol is a terminal condition that makes your parser die eventually. Consult your linguist for medical advice.
10:16:00 <shachaf> `` echo -ne 'a\0b\0' | shuf -z -n1 | xxd
10:16:08 <b_jonas> oerjan: try six consecutive ones such that they actually output a wisdom, not "No output."
10:16:31 <shachaf> `run F="$(echo -ne 'a\0b\0' | shuf -z -n1 | xxd)"; echo -n "${F}x" | xxd
10:16:33 <HackEgo> 0000000: 3030 3030 3030 303a 2036 3230 3020 2020 0000000: 6200 \ 0000010: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 \ 0000020: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 \ 0000030: 2020 622e 78 b.x
10:16:37 <shachaf> `run F="$(echo -ne 'a\0b\0' | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F}x" | xxd
10:17:02 <shachaf> A bash variable can't contain a \0? Or maybe it can but it's removed at expansion.
10:18:30 <oerjan> so it accidentally gets fixed
10:18:54 <HackEgo> vi//vi is in a relationship with emacs.
10:19:53 <shachaf> My loop didn't work because culprits depingifies nicks.
10:20:48 <b_jonas> wait, you're changing bin/wisdom ?
10:21:18 <oerjan> b_jonas: it should be backwards compatible hth
10:21:29 <shachaf> `? is the important command.
10:21:53 <oerjan> as in, there are no wisdoms yet that show the difference afaik
10:22:18 <shachaf> And now that you've fixed the command, there might never be.
10:22:26 <b_jonas> oerjan: sure, but be careful not to introduce a bug
10:22:47 <oerjan> i tested it afterwards didn't i hth
10:23:22 <oerjan> in fact you can say i _removed_ a bug for filenames with newlines in them.
10:23:30 <shachaf> you introduced a negative bug
10:23:40 <shachaf> you were supposed to leave the bug count unchanged hth
10:23:50 <HackEgo> snap//Snap is a simple web development framework for unix systems, written in the Haskell programming language. Snap has a high level of test coverage and is well-documented.
10:23:55 <HackEgo> category//A category is an enriched category where the enriching category is the category of classes.
10:23:57 <HackEgo> 4chan//4chan is twice as loud as stereo.
10:24:01 <HackEgo> war//A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age.
10:24:05 <oerjan> oh that first one is b_jonased.
10:26:04 <shachaf> `` i=0; find wisdom -type f | shuf | while read F; do i=$((i+1)); if hoag "$F" | grep -q b_jonas; then (echo -n "$i:${F#wisdom/}//"; cat "$F") | rnooodl; break; fi; done
10:26:19 <HackEgo> 5:rhenium//Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring.
10:26:31 <shachaf> 5 attempts to find a b_jonas wisdom
10:26:34 <shachaf> `` i=0; find wisdom -type f | shuf | while read F; do i=$((i+1)); if hoag "$F" | grep -q b_jonas; then (echo -n "$i:${F#wisdom/}//"; cat "$F") | rnooodl; break; fi; done
10:26:48 <HackEgo> 6:post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze//Post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze is the genre of the Autobahn album "Nagelbett" according to http://thedailywtf.com/articles/Yo-Ho%2c-Yo-Ho%2c-A-Pirates-Life-for-Lee .
10:27:02 <shachaf> `mkx tmp/tmp_jonas//i=0; find wisdom -type f | shuf | while read F; do i=$((i+1)); if hoag "$F" | grep -q b_jonas; then echo -n "$i:${F#wisdom/}//"; cat "$F"; break; fi; done | rnooodl
10:27:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tmp_jonas: not found
10:27:23 <HackEgo> 2:taiwan//Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Macedonia is.
10:27:31 <HackEgo> 2:we//We are the champions.
10:28:19 <HackEgo> 9:virgil//Virgil is a prayer at dawn, as well as an ancient Italian poet who led Dante to hell so they can ask the blind transgendered seer Anchises stupid politics questions concerning contemporary noble families.
10:28:49 <oerjan> i still think he mistyped Vigil
10:29:33 <oerjan> i suppose most of b_jonas's wisdoms aren't excessively b_jonased either
10:29:55 <shachaf> It would be nice if you could handle timeout by printing some debugging information.
10:30:04 <HackEgo> 14:at//At is a daemon for procrastinating commands.
10:30:20 <shachaf> Maybe I'll make a timeout wrapper that times out after 29 seconds and prints something if a timeout happens.
10:30:23 <oerjan> you can append ; echo Nope hth
10:30:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Sure, but in this case I want to print the value of i.
10:30:43 <HackEgo> 1:ioccclist//iocccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccccccc.org/#news
10:36:46 <int-e> what's with the cs...
10:36:51 <HackEgo> cat: bin/rnoodle: No such file or directory
10:37:00 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([^wW\W])\1\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge'
10:37:24 <b_jonas> shachaf: would that work? the timeout is because the virtual file system is inaccessible, in which case your wrapper won't work either
10:37:53 <shachaf> In that case I don't know.
10:37:53 <b_jonas> int-e: I think the multiple c wasn't me
10:38:08 <HackEgo> ioccccccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.iocccc.org/#news
10:38:12 <int-e> `` sed -i s/Con/C Code Con/ wisdom/ioccclist
10:38:14 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 7: unterminated `s' command
10:38:23 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/Con/C Code Con/' wisdom/ioccclist
10:38:59 <b_jonas> I have to add this one, and this one will be b_jonased
10:38:59 <int-e> b_jonas: the rnooodl output filter does it
10:40:00 <int-e> and I'm slightly annoyed that it breaks the link.
10:40:40 <int-e> (with probebility 0.857142...)
10:41:15 <b_jonas> at what layer is that filter? and WHY?
10:42:06 <shachaf> You can bloerjan for that one.
10:42:12 <int-e> shachaf: you are a bad person
10:42:41 <shachaf> int-e: What? I wanted to see if it was bytes or code points.
10:42:42 <int-e> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:10:07 +0000 <shachaf> ` sed -i \'4s/$/ | rnooodl/\' \'bin/`\'
10:43:08 <b_jonas> `slashlearn =@ccc/=@ccc is a great innovation in gcc 6, kept top secret, where inline asm statements can return a value in the carry flag on x86_64. See https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html which keeps this secret, https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html which documents it, and http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2238065 which uses it.
10:43:17 <HackEgo> =@ccc is a great innovation in gcc 6, kept top secret, where inline asm statements can return a value in the carry flag on x86_64. See https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html which keeps this secret, https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html which documents it, and http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2238065 which use
10:43:40 <b_jonas> `slashlearn =@ccc/=@ccc is a great innovation in gcc 6, kept top secret, where inline asm statements can return a value in the carry flag on x86_64. See https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html which keeps this secret, https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html , http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2238065 .
10:43:49 <HackEgo> =@ccccccc is a great innovation in gcc 6, kept top secret, where inline asm statements can return a value in the carry flag on x86_64. See https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html which keeps this secret, https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html , http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2238065 .
10:44:08 <b_jonas> they stand for condition, code, carry respectively
10:44:14 <b_jonas> that filter is VERY annoying
10:44:40 <shachaf> I like the filter, especially when it comes as a surprise.
10:44:44 <b_jonas> oerjan: turn that filter off!
10:44:54 <b_jonas> shachaf: put it to some lower level, like at `wisdom only or something
10:45:03 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
10:45:37 * oerjan sues shachaf for libel
10:46:01 <shachaf> oerjan: You're the one who replaced the noooodl filter with the (.)\1\1 filter.
10:46:04 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([^wW\W])\1\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge'
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10:48:19 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r bin/rnooodl
10:48:23 <HackEgo> hg cat: invalid arguments \ hg cat [OPTION]... FILE... \ \ output the current or given revision of files \ \ options: \ \ -o --output FORMAT print output to file with formatted name \ -r --rev REV print the given revision \ --decode apply any matching decode filter \ -I --include PATTERN [+] include names ma
10:48:31 <int-e> `` rm -r bin/SAVEDAT
10:48:40 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 5060d5af0b98 bin/rnooodl
10:48:46 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])oooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
10:48:56 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 5060d5af0b98 bin/rnooodl >bin/rnooodl
10:49:21 <HackEgo> The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
10:49:27 <HackEgo> ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news
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10:50:05 <oerjan> shachaf: YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE BLAMING ME hth
10:51:22 <HackEgo> Stop taking everything literally!
10:52:14 <shachaf> The OIC code contest must be a contest for especially clear code.
10:54:14 <int-e> obviously incorrect code
10:56:13 <Cale> It's especially clear that it's incorrect
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10:57:57 <HackEgo> <int-e> ` rm -r bin/SAVEDAT \ <moon_> mk bin/SAVEDAT/combineSAVE//
11:00:36 <HackEgo> Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
11:01:03 <b_jonas> shachaf: "The OIC code contest must be a contest for especially clear code." => we have one of those: http://www.underhanded-c.org/
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11:22:45 <b_jonas> argh, people filing bug reports without context
11:24:49 <int-e> b_jonas: it doesn't work!
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14:12:46 <HackEgo> sugar//Sugar, spice, and everything nice. These were the ingredients chosen to create the perfect little girl. But Professor Utonium accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction: Chemical X! Thus the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup have dedicated their lives to fighting crime an
14:12:46 <HackEgo> false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true.
14:13:05 <b_jonas> hah! that first one is mine
14:13:34 <HackEgo> orodruin//The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient.
14:13:42 <HackEgo> fabric of reality//The fabric of reality is *not* plaid corduroy, no matter what evil tongues say.
14:13:43 <HackEgo> nvd//nvd is what Taneb calls himself when he wants to feel professional.
14:13:54 <HackEgo> olist 1040: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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14:43:51 <izabera> does this count as esoteric? https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator
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17:05:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:12Me21]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47228 * 12Me21 * (+204) Created page with "'''*typing in chat*''' ''ok here's my variation of that language:'' ''L = move left one'' '''*accidentally presses enter*''' ''oops'' '''new language "L"''' '''commands..."
17:12:50 <b_jonas> ``` echo wisdom/*[xXqQ]*[xXqQ]*
17:12:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR wisdom/xkcq
17:13:02 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:13:08 <HackEgo> "xkcq" is worth 8 more points than "xkcd" in Scrabble, or a whopping 30 more if both are played optimally on a triple word score. Nyahhh.
17:13:22 -!- augur has joined.
17:14:05 <HackEgo> bash: /bin/head: No such file or directory
17:14:08 <b_jonas> ``` /usr/bin/head wisdom/XQ*
17:14:34 <b_jonas> ``` /bin/ls -dl wisdom/XQ*
17:14:36 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 19 Dec 9 2015 wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
17:14:59 <b_jonas> ``` /bin/ls -dl wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
17:14:59 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 19 Dec 9 2015 wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
17:15:03 <b_jonas> `? wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
17:15:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:15:08 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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17:15:44 <b_jonas> oerjan, why does ? not find that entry?
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18:57:31 <b_jonas> quintopia: what? oerjan just found that I haven't screwed up them much yet
18:57:47 <b_jonas> if wisdom/=@ccc counts as screwed up
18:58:37 <HackEgo> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
18:59:37 <shachaf> If one bell rings in the Tower of Bray, / Ding, dong, your true love will stay, / Ding, dong, one bell today, / In the Tower of Bray, / Ding, dong
18:59:40 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 16 Jun 3 19:23 bin/1 \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 40 Jun 4 09:41 bin/5
18:59:58 <shachaf> b_jonas: Aw, that's kind of disappointing.
19:00:16 <b_jonas> shachaf: sorry, I already added an entry for "if" yet
19:00:16 <shachaf> If nooodl hadn't been modified it would've shown 500000
19:00:40 <HackEgo> 1/2:228) <nddrylliog> back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. \ 1143) <Taneb> I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion \ 1078) <zzo38> Even if the people who made that program is a murdere
19:01:01 <HackEgo> group//groups are just loops with the property of associativity
19:01:04 <HackEgo> 848) <c00kiemon5ter> so up is down too
19:01:13 <HackEgo> 2/2:r, the program itself isn't a murderer so that doesn't make it wrong \ 374) <monqy> it was a wonderful dream <monqy> i died in it <monqy> that's how it started \ 1229) <Taneb> cpressey, Agda is a function that maps cabal install to an electric heater \
19:01:15 <Taneb> I don't think I'm ever in the mood for binomial expansion
19:01:32 <b_jonas> fungot, are you in the mood for binomial expansion?
19:01:33 <fungot> b_jonas: i thought javas were the ones who have the nerve to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme
19:01:44 <b_jonas> fungot: do you mean jawas?
19:01:45 <fungot> b_jonas: but being in teh skene is trendy anyway.) in this area says that you stick .edwin in your dir".
19:01:50 <shachaf> Taneb: how about binomial expungion hth
19:01:51 <fungot> b_jonas: 1. the item in the stream. k transfers control back to for-each to do another iteration. local fnord
19:01:57 <Taneb> shachaf, I've never tried it
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19:02:05 <HackEgo> bessell function? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:02:18 <shachaf> Why do you `? wisdom entries that you're pretty sure don't exist?
19:02:24 <shachaf> And not just one but a whole bunch in a row.
19:02:31 <quintopia> are there any math vore fetishers who watch binomial expansion porn?
19:02:39 -!- augur has joined.
19:02:41 <b_jonas> shachaf: I want to add one for bessell function, or the correct spelling for it
19:03:26 <shachaf> Is that related to the Besselheim plate?
19:03:37 <int-e> quintopia: that's horrible
19:03:43 <HackEgo> bessel function? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:04:44 <int-e> are the bessel functions useful for handwaving?
19:04:57 <b_jonas> `slashlearn bessel function/Bessel functions are responsible for certain surprising and hard to understand compilation errors. You may have seen them if you tried to define a global named yn or j0.
19:05:36 <HackEgo> Bessel functions are responsible for certain surprising and hard to understand compilation errors. You may have seen them if you tried to define a global named yn or j0.
19:07:10 <b_jonas> myname: C. They're in gnu libc as several functions with easy to clash names, a sad decision but we can't change the abi now.
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19:09:15 <b_jonas> myname: You may have to #include <cmath> (possibly indirectly) or similar to have them defined.
19:09:55 <myname> i just wondered since it isn't mentioned in the wisdom
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19:11:53 <int-e> you make it sound like glibc invented those names
19:11:57 <zzo38> I think my brother said that they invented a new pokemon that cannot wake up (and is also unaffected by any non-sleep status)? Therefore the only attack that can be use is the one that can be use only while sleeping.
19:12:26 <int-e> . o O ( vivid dreams... )
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20:41:04 <\oren\> zzo38 they already have snorlax
20:41:44 <\oren\> snorlax was one of the only competitive pokemon back in the day
20:45:32 <zzo38> At least in the first game, I don't think Snorlax was incapable of waking up?
20:46:02 <\oren\> typical usage was : rest, sleeptalk, body slam, psychic
20:46:46 <zzo38> (There is a card Snorlax that is immune to all status conditions including sleeping, but if that power is somehow suppressed and it falls asleep, it can be affected by other conditions too until they are recovered and the power is no longer suppressed.)
20:49:08 <zzo38> \oren\: But if you are not allowed to have two same pokemons then you need another one as well?
20:51:19 <\oren\> in my middle school we would use only the following pokemon essentially
20:54:13 <\oren\> mewtwo alakazam dragonite snorlax gengar and the legendary birds
20:55:10 <zzo38> OK, that look like eight in total
20:56:05 <\oren\> this was because a mewtwo or alakzam kills almost anything quickly with psychic
21:00:10 <\oren\> dragonite and snorlax have broken enough stats to compensate
21:00:39 <\oren\> gengar to counter snorlax
21:01:01 <\oren\> articuno to counter dragonite
21:02:20 <HackEgo> gnimmargorp//"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp".
21:02:20 <HackEgo> caps lock//CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES
21:02:22 <HackEgo> cake//The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
21:04:29 <\oren\> however mewtwo has the delicuously broken ability to learn fire blast solarbeam and blizzard
21:04:53 <\oren\> so the starters are totallt screwed
21:05:17 <zzo38> I think some people have decided to make a limit of levels of Mewtwo that is allowed
21:06:38 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
21:07:03 <int-e> no room for "terribly goofy"
21:07:06 <\oren\> oh and thunder mewtwo can learn thunder... great...
21:07:52 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you play _Spider and Web_?
21:08:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bubble Pop * New user account
21:08:51 <int-e> "Spider And Web is not a game about a vacation."
21:09:00 <int-e> shachaf: is that the right track?
21:09:31 <zzo38> I think I may have done once.
21:10:02 <shachaf> int-e: It's not that long. You should play it.
21:10:30 <shachaf> What I don't understand is why there are two rooms named "Corridor Boundary".
21:10:44 <shachaf> Took me a long time to figure out what was going on there.
21:15:13 <shachaf> Games where x doesn't work are so annoying.
21:16:44 <\oren\> omg i just realized mewtwo is basically a black mage
21:17:36 <\oren\> firaga blizzaga thundaga
21:18:01 <shachaf> But you can only undo once.
21:21:58 <int-e> oops, the inventory got quite full now'
21:22:09 <zzo38> Z-machine can only use one undo buffer; ISAVE records the current state of addressable RAM, stack, locals, program counter, into this buffer, and IRESTORE restores it.
21:25:31 <zzo38> (And only if the undo bit is set in the header. If not set, undo buffers might not be allocatable. It is possible that some implementations might support undo only if PURBOT and/or ENDLOD are low enough.)
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21:29:02 <int-e> hmm. could be fun... later
21:42:21 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Fri Jun 17 22:42:21 2016
21:43:47 <lambdabot> Local time for myname is Fri Jun 17 22:43:45 2016
21:43:59 <myname> well, pretty useless imho
21:45:31 <shachaf> int-e: There's a pretty good puzzle in the game later on.
21:47:49 <zzo38> That is true, yes.
21:48:18 <shachaf> zzo38: Are you thinking of the one I'm thinking of?
21:53:00 <zzo38> How should I know?
21:53:43 <shachaf> You could say something that doesn't give spoilers but would still confirm that we're thinking of the same thing.
21:56:24 <myname> zero-knowledge proofs!
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22:05:40 <int-e> what about privmsg
22:09:09 <myname> what is the difference between concede and surrender?
22:10:16 <shachaf> pikhq: The chance of collision is of course the square root of the number you said.
22:10:38 <shachaf> Well, not the square root. But related to it.
22:19:13 <pikhq> shachaf: Still not concerned. :)
22:19:54 <shachaf> you know the bitcoin network does that many hashes every few seconds?
22:20:31 <shachaf> > logBase 2 1432701138.46e9
22:21:23 <pikhq> Really, it does 2^61 hashes every few seconds?
22:21:34 <shachaf> According to http://blockchain.info/stats
22:21:52 <shachaf> I'm not sure if hash rate is measuring single SHA-256 or double SHA-256.
22:22:22 <pikhq> Also, note that you're talking the birthday paradox odds: the odds that there *exists* a collision, not that there is a collision with your particular random UUID.
22:23:11 <shachaf> But presumably zzo38 is worried about other people's collisions too.
22:24:04 <shachaf> http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?showDataPoints=false&show_header=true&daysAverageString=1×pan=all&scale=1&address=
22:29:42 <zzo38> Why can't the select() system call to support absolute timers? And why do implementations other than Linux not tell you how much time is remaining, but Linux does?
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22:34:12 <pikhq> zzo38: I think the major reason is that select is considered deprecated.
22:35:06 <pikhq> (though, poll is not exactly a replacement for that particular usage)
22:37:15 <zzo38> Is there a better way to wait for a file descriptor from a set with a timeout based on an absolute timer? Also sometimes you might want a relative timer anyways. If you can open a file descriptor that has a timer on it (either internally or by a separate program or thread that writes to one end of the pipe once the specified time is reached) then it can also be done absolute timer.
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22:39:40 <zzo38> There is timerfd_create I will read it to figure out what that does.
22:40:26 <zzo38> However, it says it is Linux-specific.
22:45:44 <Cale> `? associativity
22:46:54 <Cale> `slashlearn associativity h(th) = (ht)h
22:47:05 <Cale> `slashlearn associativity/h(th) = (ht)h
22:48:08 <shachaf> Cale: is this some sort of adjunction or section/retraction thing
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22:49:00 <shachaf> Cale: Also I'm surprised you picked up "slashlearn" of all things.
22:49:54 <Cale> I went back in my scrollback and found someone recording a wisdom
23:04:30 <HackEgo> 4®Øy9®5¥"ÌÍ^è#M.)>JCÛ]øQ¥Nwº´ðrr¨vÃYÙr=W§qò»[qêà§þì´óÙ»ÚRöµ¢JGê57¿<o?y¹fnßÊKWc:É'b2ÿÄÏRÇHÞ À±#ÍÎ6Ûq?Ðí¾uW
âOóT$sJÈWÅ÷!á(SñðwÒ¤è:²ÿsão(!µÐ0°'EÂLjÂ*EÃår0Õ^©wPe8²F3®¦È÷ð>\>z0\ðØÀXÕ,[æàêH¸ÃULÍwä^_jnO{zKÀQ)ÛBGqhLQ¤{ÁÑÛ¹ö1¹Sà½Q\¦dµ¡`¥°
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23:19:12 <zzo38> How to do properly like select but with absolute timer?
23:22:52 <pikhq> Probably your best bet is to use threads and cancellation: spawn one thread that will select, and return the results of the select. Spawn another thread that will wait for your timer, and then cancel the thread. Join the select thread, if it wasn't PTHREAD_CANCELLED record the time. Cancel and join the timer thread.
23:23:01 <pikhq> This is nasty as hell, but I think it'll work?
23:23:24 <pikhq> I firmly hope there's a better way of doing it.
23:24:10 <pikhq> (also, this will have race conditions on glibc, because glibc thread cancellation has race conditions in violation of the spec. :()
23:24:25 <lambdabot> *** "glib" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:24:25 <lambdabot> adj 1: marked by lack of intellectual depth; "glib
23:24:25 <lambdabot> generalizations"; "a glib response to a complex question"
23:24:25 <lambdabot> 2: having only superficial plausibility; "glib promises"; "a
23:25:26 <pikhq> I think they're fixing it, at least.
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00:10:10 <zzo38> Now I wrote a simple program to lease stdin; it then terminates as soon as anyone else opens the same file. (If you just type "lease" by itself, you will get an error message, because you cannot lease a terminal.)
00:16:46 <zzo38> To do select with absolute timer one idea I thought might be to create a pipe and then another thread or program can wait for the specified time and emit characters on the pipe once the timer expires.
00:17:07 <pikhq> Mmm, yes, that would work.
00:17:34 <pikhq> And then the select user can just know that one of the fds means "timer expired".
00:18:04 <pikhq> I think that one's a lot cleaner than what I suggested.
00:18:04 <pikhq> And it'll work with poll as well.
00:18:10 <shachaf> `learn Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces.
00:18:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'pikachu': Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces.
00:18:51 <pikhq> Nah, just feelin' like I've got a drill burrowing into my head.
00:19:56 <pikhq> Nothing to be concerned about, it's just the fault of my genetics.
00:20:48 <shachaf> Are you sticking around in the area, speaking of which?
00:21:09 <pikhq> Iff I find myself hired.
00:21:14 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: No.
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00:29:57 <hppavilion[1]> According to wolfram|alpha, with exactly (no solutions exist) bits, you can represent any item from a set of 0 possibilities
00:35:50 <Cale> Clearly it should have been Infinity bits
00:36:20 <Cale> no wait, -Infinity
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00:44:53 <hppavilion[1]> I just found the Hallmarks of Cancer, which are the rules that designate a tumor as malignant
00:45:21 <hppavilion[1]> Now I know whether calling a particular political ideology, movement, or group "cancerous" is reflective of that group
00:50:53 <\oren\> wait wouldn't that mean that anything that is growing in popularity is cancerous
00:51:50 <Phantom_Hoover> no obviously you need restructuring of the blood supply to the group as well
00:51:54 <quintopia> only if in doing so it dismantles established and necessary organizational structures
00:52:58 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, obviously not otherwise your fingernails would be cancer
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00:56:16 <hppavilion[1]> According to affirmativeconsent.com under "What is affirmative consent?"
00:56:18 <hppavilion[1]> "Consent is to be determined from the perspective of the complainant."
00:57:09 <\oren\> I recommend reading into the case law instead
00:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> So if someone has sex with someone else, and that person had every reason to believe that the partner was cool with- or even into- it, if the partner says that they didn't feel like they consented, then it's rape.
00:58:17 <\oren\> like I said, read the actual judgements
00:58:41 <hppavilion[1]> But that seems like an obvious vector to get rid of someone you don't like- have sex with them, claim you didn't consent, get them sent to prison
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00:59:34 <hppavilion[1]> This case is using the "39%" metric, which has been repeatedly debunked
01:00:07 <hppavilion[1]> Even the people who conducted the original survey that came up with the 1-in-3 number have said their survey shouldn't be used to justify laws or policies or anything, IIRC
01:00:45 <hppavilion[1]> The DoJ came up with a number closer to 1-in-50; still too large, but saying 1-in-3 is still a lie
01:01:16 <hppavilion[1]> (Apparently, it used to be 1-in-5, then it was 1-in-4, now it's 1-in-3. Soon enough, 2 out of every 1 women will get sexually assaulted in her lifetime)
01:02:29 <\oren\> solution: don't date crazy people?
01:05:08 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, I prefer "don't stick your dick in greater quantities of crazy" to the less accurate-to-humanity "don't stick your dick in crazy"
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01:31:57 <zzo38> What happen if both people don't consent? But the solution is easy: don't sex.
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01:38:57 <hppavilion[2]> fizzie: Hey, can you give fungot a style based on bus timetables from a city where buses crash constantly?
01:38:58 <fungot> hppavilion[2]: so you are waiting for a class? td fnord" fnord svg public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.01 fnord/ cdn/ fnord/ fnord/ fnord -lm " slow"
01:39:27 <hppavilion[2]> (though you fed the full HTML of the page it appears)
01:39:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:45:00 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: It's a Scrabble game where JS reserved words count for triple points
01:46:39 <zzo38> Does it multiply after all other modifier on the board then?
01:47:02 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: That doesn't matter. Multiplication is commutative over the naturals.
01:47:51 <zzo38> I know that, but the other possibility is if it suppresses the other modifiers or something like that.
01:48:05 <hppavilion[2]> Oh, but double/triple letter scores might affect it...
01:50:41 <hppavilion[2]> Wait, but what are the rules in normal scrabble? It's possible to get both a double word score and a double letter score
01:50:53 <hppavilion[2]> Well, I suppose you have to apply double word score second
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01:54:19 <hppavilion[2]> (then again, that might be some sort of archive subdomain)
02:02:46 <\oren\> See and hear the entire speech for 56K modem download [8.7 megabytes in a .asf movie format which requires Windows Media Player 7 (speech lasts about 33 minutes)].
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02:04:33 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: what's wrong with that page though???
02:07:34 <\oren\> what do you think of my dad's website: http://math.yorku.ca/~watson/
02:08:42 <\oren\> notice that the text is pink and the bacground is teal
02:13:05 <\oren\> see! he knows some modern html!
02:14:00 <zzo38> You usually should not alter the colours from the user settings. Unfortunately this does not provide any standard way to do reverse-video (although Mozilla has an extension to support this).
02:14:41 <zzo38> But what you should not ever to do is altering the foreground but not background or vice-versa.
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04:05:36 <zzo38> hppavilion[2]: What happen if it is a JS reserved word that is not already a valid word of Scrabble game? (Since, some might not be)
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04:11:29 <hppavilion[2]> Isn't it annoying when somebody gets a cube with distinct sides where the sides always follow a particular pattern wrong?
04:20:19 <hppavilion[2]> I just found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cetaceans
04:20:39 <hppavilion[2]> In the tables, if a picture is missing, it says "Cetacean Needed"
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04:45:27 <hppavilion[2]> Does the IUCN Red List include dinosaurs in their 'extinct' list?
05:00:21 <hppavilion[2]> Wow, explainxkcd has brought down their incomplete article list a LOT
05:31:29 <pikhq> hppavilion[2]: Well, there are certainly at least some dinosaurs that would make the extinct list.
05:31:35 <hppavilion[2]> "Hundreds of replicas of the Statue of Liberty have been created worldwide. At least one is the same size as the original; others are all smaller."
05:32:18 <pikhq> Tip, all birds are dinosaurs by any reasonable definition of the term. :)
05:33:10 <hppavilion[2]> pikhq: Unless the definition includes "lived before modern homonids"
05:33:41 <pikhq> Yeah, um, that's pretty unreasonable.
05:33:56 <pikhq> (and includes many birds. :P)
05:35:05 <hppavilion[2]> pikhq: Yeah, but at least it doesn't include e.g. ravens
05:35:19 <pikhq> I fail to see why that's a desirable property.
05:35:39 <hppavilion[2]> pikhq: Because ravens are smarter than dinosaurs, obv.
05:35:48 <hppavilion[2]> But the Wikipedia et al. challenge, of course, is to make a /larger/ replica of the SoL
05:40:46 <hppavilion[2]> "The statue is an icon of freedom and of the United States, and was a welcoming sight to immigrants arriving from abroad."
05:41:47 <pikhq> Immigrants don't generally make landfall at Ellis Island anymore.
05:53:46 <quintopia> hppavilion[2]: is the challenge for someone to build one that's bigger?
05:55:10 <quintopia> oh, well there was such a gap between your mentioning and then explicitly saying it, i just gave up and assumed you never did
05:56:12 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
06:00:26 <hppavilion[1]> Has the Unicode Consortium gotten around to snakes yet?
06:01:36 <quintopia> are you looking forward to seeing snakes on a unicode?
06:05:29 <\oren\> Is there a "bag of weed" emoji yet?
06:06:41 <quintopia> i mean, there's a leaf, right? i think?
06:07:19 <\oren\> there's a leaf and a "maple leaf" too
06:07:31 <\oren\> but no "marijuana leaf"
06:09:58 <quintopia> why is microsoft's alembic emoji so stylized as to be unrecognizable
06:11:18 <quintopia> http://emojipedia.org/maple-leaf/ LG's is like halfway between maple and hemp
06:12:52 <quintopia> this is a fun category: http://emojipedia.org/festivus/
06:13:00 <\oren\> the alembic wasn't originally an emoji
06:13:46 <\oren\> it's one of the ones that becomes an emoji by a varation selector
06:21:23 <zzo38> Unicode is actually a mess.
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06:36:12 <hppavilion[1]> I had an idea for a browser game designed to make a point about political correctness
06:36:26 <\oren\> Apparently I'm wrong about ALEMBIC
06:36:37 <\oren\> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/StandardizedVariants.html
06:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> It gives you a rather specific race (like "Phillipino" (sp)) and 3-5 pictures of people of that race and you have to click the correct answer
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06:38:11 <hppavilion[1]> It calibrates which images to use based on the ones most commonly clicked instead of the right answer (so if it says "asian", the options will generally not include someone with very, very dark skin)
06:40:15 <izabera> how do i find a certain string of bytes in a binary file?
06:41:25 <izabera> i have a shell and no c compiler and i need to find that
06:41:25 <\oren\> Wikipedia has ceased showing a set of pictures of people in articles about ethnic groups...
06:41:45 <hppavilion[1]> http://unicode.org/L2/L2016/16160-emoji-professions.pdf
06:41:48 <pikhq> grep -boF ;# and be advised that this will work with GNU grep but may not with other greps (that choke on binary files)
06:42:05 <hppavilion[1]> Really, UC? Emoji don't need to include every image ever
06:42:47 <hppavilion[1]> You should have separate sets of emoji to represent men and women from those representing careers- you don't need to combine them to have women in each career AND men in each career
06:43:21 <hppavilion[1]> They also say "People search for women and men emoji with nearly the same frequency" when there is a blatantly higher number of people searching for men
06:44:07 <hppavilion[1]> I would estimate 135% as many looking for "men emoji" as for "women emoji"
06:44:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, at least they're making them combining sequences rather than whole new codepoints
06:47:50 <hppavilion[1]> But still, the idea of "focus on women in various jobs" is pretty stupid; unless you can show a blatant limitation to women getting into a job- not just there being more men in the job in general, but a discrepancy between percentage women and men hired vs. applied- I will assume that the lower percentage of women in the job is because /less women want the job/, as that's as close to the null hypothesis as I can get
06:49:25 <hppavilion[1]> I also find it funny that the document mentions adding the equivalents for men, but almost entirely emphasize it for women
06:50:24 <hppavilion[1]> Which makes no sense to me; if there aren't ones for men AND women already, what reason is there to have them? They say it's to "empower young women", but I don't think people will feel particularly empowered by there being emoji showing women in assorted professions
06:51:05 <hppavilion[1]> It's like saying e.g. all newspaper comics should be shown with variants with men AND women for each character
06:53:01 <hppavilion[1]> "We recognize the importance of having an inclusive representation of all people in emoji" so why don't you just make everything generic and neutral? Having specific emoji for various attributes of people is stupid; it's like if they decided there needs to be variants of emoji for all the different eye colors
06:54:22 <hppavilion[1]> Having dinosaurs seems like more of a pressing issue to me
06:56:26 <\oren\> Bah, who cares about emoji, I'm pissed that wikipedia seems to have decided that "what do albanians look like" isn't a valid question.
06:56:26 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Careful, you're straying dangerously far into discussing discrimination while having no idea whether or not it's an issue or to what degree.
06:58:13 <myname> i wonder if default emojis are going to work with the female modifier, too
06:58:31 <myname> and when women demand to not having male emojis the fdefault
06:58:42 <\oren\> The emoji will be resolved when font designers are no longer able to finish.
06:59:54 <shachaf> What is a female emoji? One with long hair?
07:00:01 <\oren\> but seriously, wikipedia is beginning to become inferior to my 1950's Britannica
07:01:06 <\oren\> due to NPOV being interpreted as PPOVI (Popular Point of View on Internet)
07:01:38 <myname> shouldn't it be PPOVOI then?
07:01:55 <myname> if you don't omit of, you shouldn't omit on either
07:04:14 <\oren\> it is a FACT that there are visible differences between the Irish and the Japanese, and the en.wikipedia people are censoring this fact.
07:04:33 <zzo38> What should be instead is All-Point-Of-View.
07:05:11 <pikhq> \oren\: Are they not putting it in the article for belief it's not a fact, or for belief that it's not a relevant fact?
07:05:17 <pikhq> I strongly suspect it's the latter.
07:05:42 <\oren\> argh. "relevant" to whom?
07:05:43 <pikhq> (you may disagree, and also when has irrelevance of a fact stopped Wikipedia before)
07:05:54 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Pretty soon we're going to have ZWJ sequences for families where the parents are both men (one with skin tone 2, the other with skin tone 5) and the child is a muslim for some reason
07:06:35 <zzo38> As I said before, Unicode is actually a mess!!
07:06:39 <hppavilion[1]> (don't get me wrong, I don't have anything wrong with muslims as a whole- at least, no more relative to Christians and Jews and Hindus (that's the proper plural, right?)- but generally you don't have two non-muslim parents with a muslim child)
07:07:05 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: as I said this will be solved when font designers no longer put up with it
07:07:44 <HackEgo> Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people.
07:08:30 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Where are they censoring the visual differences between the Irish and the Japanese? I want to see and laugh
07:08:47 <pikhq> I'm afraid that it's impossible to assert a view is not completely crazy without stepping in some deep political shit.
07:09:12 <hppavilion[1]> For a second there, I thought "Wouldn't it be nice if we had something like Wikipedia, but..." before I realized it's been done, but it became "conservapedia"
07:09:16 <pikhq> Remember, we have a political party that believes that climate change is neither human-caused nor actually happening.
07:09:17 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: go to the article "albanians" for example
07:09:47 <\oren\> they removed the gallery of images at the top which tells people what albanians generally look like
07:09:54 <zzo38> I think that even crazy point of view must be included, although they could be separated from the main article; this results in better text than making a mess of everything in one sentence that doesn't make sense.
07:10:16 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: But what about POVs shared by only 4 or 5 individuals?
07:10:17 <pikhq> The scientific community is happy to state that's pretty crazy at this point, but it's certainly not thought of like that by everybody.
07:10:33 <\oren\> this has been done to all articles on ethnic groups
07:10:40 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Is there a political party that believes that climate change is human-caused but isn't actually happening?
07:11:29 <\oren\> Hopefully someone can put at least some txt explaining that, for example, very pale skin, red hair and freckles are common among the Irish
07:11:36 <zzo38> If only five people and isn't significant then maybe it should be placed on the talk page by those people.
07:11:43 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people: an actual article :)
07:12:12 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: I would firmly hope not.
07:13:00 <\oren\> Black people isn't an ethnic group though.
07:14:46 <zzo38> I have look at some custom Magic: the Gathering cards that people made up that say "This card cannot die even if a card says it can". This does not prevent it from being exiled, phased out, returned to owner's hand, shuffled into owner's library, anted, countered, discarded, turned face-down, etc....
07:14:48 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans doesn't have any images there specifically to get across how blacks look, and there are no color images until the 5th n-section or so
07:15:42 <zzo38> (It also says "destroy target player"; of course only permanents can be destroyed, not players.)
07:21:28 <\oren\> welcome to the twilight zone...
07:23:08 <\oren\> well, one solution is to read Wikipedia in a non-english language
07:27:51 <hppavilion[1]> I just pasted a rant on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:African_Americans. Now for the hate.
07:28:20 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Pffft. Non-english wikipedias are an April Fool's joke, aren't they?
07:29:16 <zzo38> No it is not only for April, I think?
07:30:42 <\oren\> solution: look at https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2%E4%BA%BA
07:30:55 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Oh, huh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Images#NOETHNICGALLERIES
07:31:11 <\oren\> Yeah and it seems to be for stupid reasons
07:31:22 <\oren\> https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/アルバニア人
07:31:55 <\oren\> Thank god for the Japanese and their resistance to political correctness
07:32:59 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I think I'll go establish Political Dontgiveafuckness
07:42:39 <asie> hppavilion[1]: That's not very political.
07:43:37 <hppavilion[1]> Al Qaeda referred to 9/11 by the codename "The Big Wedding", because they are the biggest assholes on the face of the earth
07:52:08 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, the FAA didn't start grounding planes (well, it didn't order to ground ALL planes) until after the 3 successful attacks
07:52:19 <FreeFull> I thought ISIS is the biggest assholes
07:52:38 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: Eh, they're probably deeply connected to Al Qaeda
07:52:56 <FreeFull> Didn't Al Qaeda denounce them?
07:53:46 <FreeFull> "In February 2014, after a prolonged dispute with al-Qaeda in Iraq's successor organisation, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), al-Qaeda publicly announced it was cutting all ties with the group, reportedly for its brutality and "notorious intractability"."
07:55:05 <hppavilion[1]> "Mohammed said al-Qaeda initially planned to target nuclear installations rather than the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, but decided against it, fearing things could "get out of control".["
07:55:59 <FreeFull> ISIS is too extreme even for the extremists
07:57:01 <zzo38> I am not surprised of that.
07:58:38 <zzo38> I think someone is hiding something about the attacks on World Trade Center, but I don't know what, exactly. Maybe the US government somehow convinced them to attack World Trade Center instead of nuclear installations, for reasons of hidden motives...?
07:58:49 <hppavilion[1]> "New York City 911 operators who received calls from individuals inside the tower were not well informed of the situation as it rapidly unfolded and as a result, told callers not to descend the tower on their own."
07:59:28 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Aaaaaand now you're a conspiracy theorist. Your complimentary tinfoil hat will be delivered in 9-11 business days.
08:03:54 <zzo38> I think a tinfoil hat is not of much help; wire mesh is probably more effective, but you might need a lot more than that
08:04:27 <\oren\> So I went downstairs to look in my Britannica
08:05:47 <\oren\> Yeah, they had pictures.
08:09:57 <\oren\> It's a pity the web version of the Britannica is so stupid
08:18:00 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Pffft. REAL conspiracy theorists wear faraday cages
08:18:49 <\oren\> My aunt wore tinfoil liner under her jacket and hat for a while
08:19:43 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I wonder if I could make a stylish tinfoil hat
08:19:58 <\oren\> she thought her pastor was using a microwave to mind control people or something
08:19:59 <hppavilion[1]> Do young conspiracy theorists in schools get to wear their tinfoil hats?
08:20:25 <hppavilion[1]> (for those living abroad, in US schools students are banned from wearing hats because gang members also wear hats)
08:27:12 <hppavilion[1]> How do they ship devices used for automatically paying tolls?
08:31:04 <\oren\> presumably the device can be activated on delivery
08:31:32 <hppavilion[1]> "The NAACP denounces the use of both nigga and nigger."
08:31:41 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah, but apparently they just put them in lead-lined bags
08:31:55 <hppavilion[1]> Their denouncement includes when used by black people
08:32:44 <hppavilion[1]> Because, of course, the NAACP has the authority to prescribe the culture and language that should be used by black people, and all black people are the same of course so anything sweeping like that is OK
08:33:25 <hppavilion[1]> NAACP should probably be renamed to the NAARC (National African American Regulation Center) or something like that
08:33:27 <\oren\> whatver... I'm coming to the conclusion that the entire anglosphere is probably doomed
08:37:13 <hppavilion[1]> Why are all communities/networks of communities "spheres"?
08:37:37 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, wouldn't a great word for the community of minecraft players be "the Mineocube"?
08:50:14 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: What if neoletters used actual pictures for emoji? xD
08:52:21 * hppavilion[1] is tempted to incorporate the AAVE habitual/continuative aspect (e.g. "he be working Tuesdays") into his own grammar
08:53:00 <\oren\> I won't be doing much Emoji until the CJKwidth corrections in 9.0 are finalized
08:54:17 <\oren\> I do intend to draw them freehand from photos however, much like the flower tiles in the Mahjong block
08:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Ah, I was hoping you would just google the name and choose the first non-already-emoji image in the list that isn't copyright-protected xP
08:55:37 <HackEgo> U+1F022 MAHJONG TILE PLUM \ UTF-8: f0 9f 80 a2 UTF-16BE: d83cdc22 Decimal: 🀢 \ 🀢 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F023 MAHJONG TILE ORCHID \ UTF-8: f0 9f 80 a3 UTF-16BE: d83cdc23 Decimal: 🀣 \ 🀣 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F024 MAHJONG TILE BAMBOO \ UT
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08:55:59 <\oren\> nah, that would not work, because I intend to keep neoletters a monochrome font
08:59:39 <\oren\> Color emojis probably would not react well with terminal colors
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09:17:35 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, and there's no voiced equivalent of 'h' (like 'b' is the voiced 'p' and 'd' is the voiced 't')
09:18:06 <hppavilion[1]> Probably because voicing 'h' makes you sound retarded (in the actual, clinical sense; not in an offensive, colloquial sense)
09:26:12 <myname> there is an emoji based esolang
09:26:55 <\oren\> voiced velar fricative
09:31:17 <\oren\> apparently ɦ is a voiced glottal fricative
09:32:35 <shachaf> A fricative is very different from h.
09:33:49 <\oren\> I thought h is a glottal fricative
09:35:43 <shachaf> I was talking about the English letter h.
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09:38:45 <shachaf> I guess I misunderstood what a fricative is?
09:39:03 <\oren\> in dialects that bother to actually prnounce the letter h, it's definitely some kind of hssing sound
09:39:22 <\oren\> from the back of the throat
09:40:16 <fizzie> "In some languages, it has the constricted manner of articulation of a fricative. However, in many if not most it is a transitional state of the glottis, with no manner of articulation other than its phonation type. Because there is no other constriction to produce friction in the vocal tract in the languages they are familiar with, many phoneticians[who?] no longer consider [h] to be a ...
09:40:22 <fizzie> ... fricative. However, the term "fricative" is generally retained for historical reasons."
09:40:51 <shachaf> fizzie: i feel vindicated tdh
09:43:55 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Really? Using inaccurate, meaningfully-descriptive scientific terms for "historical reasons"!?
09:44:15 <shachaf> In 'ertford, 'ereford, and 'ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen
09:44:54 <hppavilion[1]> I don't know, if we found out electrons had a positive charge (because physics) but we kept writing them as e^- for historical reasons
09:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I thought it was just "'amp" and the "shire" was added by Americans thinking all of England is a shire?
09:46:22 <hppavilion[1]> See http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blrevocation_cleese.htm
10:11:05 <HackEgo> cat: share/weapons: No such file or directory
10:11:10 <HackEgo> cat: shr/weapons: No such file or directory
10:11:15 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
10:11:27 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ mtg \ nothp \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ recipe \ scapegoats \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ units.dat \ user
10:11:31 <HackEgo> fruit \ spline \ spout \ tempcmd \ testcmd \ tmp_jonas
10:12:37 <HackEgo> Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
10:36:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Folder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47229&oldid=44368 * Rdococ * (+282) /* Computational class up for debate */
10:52:44 <hppavilion[1]> God I love https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCMQCSDW8AAGN61.png:large
10:57:37 <hppavilion[1]> http://i.imgur.com/AbtBGxo.jpg: Coder learned to succeed despite racism
10:57:46 <hppavilion[1]> Specifically, he was racist against those from Java
11:02:02 <hppavilion[1]> "Good on him. Race conditions are hella hard to debug."
11:08:05 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> oerjan, why does ? not find that entry? <-- because it auto-lowercases.
11:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> The other day, I saw "womyn" in the comment section of a YouTube video, used sarcastically
11:08:34 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
11:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> I assumed it was just taking rhetoric and obsession with orthography and inclusivity to the extreme
11:08:54 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR
11:08:54 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR : No such file or directory
11:15:43 <HackEgo> groups are just loops with the property of associativity
11:16:07 <oerjan> `sled wisdom/group//s/./G/;s/$/./
11:16:16 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/group
11:17:10 <shachaf> Remember when we didn't have sled and everything was sed -i?
11:17:15 <oerjan> please don't add more commands when HackEgo is already molasses
11:17:42 <oerjan> shachaf: how did we survive!
11:17:52 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 shachaf elliott Taneb
11:17:55 <oerjan> oh i forgot the command i added
11:18:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/group//Groups are just loops with the property of associativity.
11:19:19 <oerjan> the weird thing is that the wiki is nowhere near that slow, despite being on the same server
11:20:23 <shachaf> Cale: This category theory book is very poorly edited.
11:20:28 <shachaf> Every section has a retraction.
11:20:54 * oerjan leaps onto shachaf with the vengeance of a thousand swats ------###
11:21:06 <oerjan> also an extra - it seems
11:21:39 <oerjan> i think i'll pullback from this discussion.
11:22:14 <shachaf> I should twit it or something. Wherever people put their puns these days.
11:22:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sudo: not found
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11:33:11 <\oren\> well I assume the wiki doesn't boot Linux with every request
11:37:23 <\oren\> (this might be a wrong assumption)
11:38:30 <hppavilion[1]> I'm trying to come up with a parody otherkin that's crazy enough to be obvious to everybody else, but not enough to tip off the actual otherkin
11:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> I honestly can't think of anything crazier than what Otherkin already have, something that would be obvious it was fictional.
11:39:13 <hppavilion[1]> Other than just a really long list of combinations, which would be obvious to everybody
11:41:30 <\oren\> (assuming you've read your Terry Pratchett)
11:44:27 <hppavilion[1]> Isn't it great when you come up with a clever email address and it isn't taken?
11:47:25 <\oren\> my email address is just my.name@gmail.com
11:47:48 <\oren\> wait, I'm already using my name here
11:48:14 <FreeFull> \oren\: Does the Blue Man Group count?
11:48:37 <\oren\> omg hahaha I didn't make that connection...
11:50:32 <FreeFull> Probably not, since they don't pretend to be scottish
11:51:00 <\oren\> right. and they don't have swords that glow to warn of approaching lawyers
11:53:26 <oerjan> `learn Associativity is when h(th) = (ht)h, hth
11:53:35 <HackEgo> Relearned 'associativity': Associativity is when h(th) = (ht)h, hth
11:54:41 <oerjan> `learn Associativity is when h(th) = (ht)h.
11:54:49 <HackEgo> Relearned 'associativity': Associativity is when h(th) = (ht)h.
11:55:40 <oerjan> exercise: think of an operation that fulfils that but not if you distinguish the first and last h
11:57:37 <oerjan> hm no that has the equals as neighbots
11:59:38 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_algebra
11:59:52 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: and for sedenions too
12:00:54 <oerjan> `learn Associativity means that h(th) = (ht)h, if you're flexible about it.
12:01:00 <HackEgo> Relearned 'associativity': Associativity means that h(th) = (ht)h, if you're flexible about it.
12:03:57 <lynn> I had to look up what a retraction is to get shachaf's joke, and found a great article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retracted_article_on_dopaminergic_neurotoxicity_of_MDMA
12:05:17 <lynn> (I only knew that word as category theory jargon, embarrassingly...)
12:11:10 <hppavilion[1]> https://robjo.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/spotting-fake-otherkin-part-1-intro-and-angelkin/ is the most absurd thing I have ever seen
12:11:31 <hppavilion[1]> It's talking about people who ~"Want to be otherkin so badly they start to believe it's true"
12:11:42 <hppavilion[1]> "it let’s them feel special (without having actually earned that specialness)"
12:12:09 <hppavilion[1]> (You know, because otherkin actually have earned specialness by being reincarnated. Obvi.)
12:15:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ooor, has anybody applied Tumblr Genders and Tumblr Sexuality to religion?
12:16:04 <hppavilion[1]> "I'm an Akoitheist; I only believe in gods that don't think I exist because they thought they deleted the universe ages ago"
12:21:18 * oerjan recalls reading a comic book that started with the gods doing that. fortunately they missed a part.
12:23:20 <Phantom_Hoover> so meanwhile this is perfectly hilarious http://www.wired.com/2016/06/50-million-hack-just-showed-dao-human/
12:27:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47230&oldid=42463 * IAM * (+145) /* Is this a Turing tarpit? */
12:28:26 <hppavilion[1]> "While Russia has more physicians, hospitals, and health care workers than almost any other country in the world on a per capita basis,[308] since the dissolution of the Soviet Union the health of the Russian population has declined considerably as a result of social, economic, and lifestyle changes;[309] the trend has been reversed only in the recent years, with average life expectancy having increased 5.2 years for males and 3.1 years
12:29:06 <oerjan> they had rather good health care.
12:34:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47231&oldid=47230 * IAM * (+315) /* Funciton Tools */ new section
12:35:27 <myname> where does that akoitheism come from
12:35:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47232&oldid=47231 * IAM * (+122) /* Conditional returning lambda */
12:37:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47233&oldid=47232 * IAM * (+68) /* Funciton Tools */
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12:38:45 <\oren\> I hate how atmospheric drag doesn't affect any craft unless they're focused
12:45:07 <\oren\> hmm I have an idea for a space strategy game
12:48:20 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Will it allow traveling to other stars and, if so, will it properly reflect the several-hundred-year travel time?
12:49:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: you control your spacecraft by sending programs to them, and the game server (which runs at all times) would simulate their carrying out your sent instructions
12:50:15 <\oren\> It would have a very accurate physics engine, but the interface is just a website!
12:50:41 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Will it account for speed-of-light delay and require that you account for red/blueshifting in your spacecrafts' OSes?
12:51:45 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Will you have to respect international treaties?
12:52:46 <\oren\> not if you don't want to!
12:54:24 <\oren\> You simply build spacecraft on your homeworld and program them. Communication, alliances, treaties, etc would be outside the game itself
12:55:59 <\oren\> although perhaps the in-game message system would be included
12:56:12 <\oren\> with light-speed delay, of course
12:57:31 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, why isn't there a planet mnemonic including Pluto
13:32:23 <HackEgo> programmer's google? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:32:36 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn programmer's google/A programmer's google is equal to 10^100, or 110
13:32:42 <HackEgo> Learned «programmer's google»
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13:37:03 <lambdabot> CYQB 181200Z 00000KT 30SM FEW200 16/07 A3020 RMK CI1 HAZY SLP230
13:50:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Is that the most impressive porthello ever?
13:52:30 <hppavilion[1]> I need to learn more languages to improve my porthelloing
13:52:34 <boily> that is one nice porthelllo!
13:52:48 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, how would we porthello if we all spoke some chinese language?
13:52:53 <boily> hppavellonmatin[1]!
13:54:27 <izabera> fun fact: the upcoming disney movie moana will be called oceania in italy, and she'll be called vaiana
13:54:43 <izabera> because moana is the name of a famous italian pornstar
13:57:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: non-latin scripthellos is a horror i have not yet fully contemplated.
14:03:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think they fall under "Eldritch Typography"
14:05:30 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, just to make the world a weirder, more unnecessarily-confusing place, I'm going to tell anyone who asks that my preferred pronouns are feminine (except for the collective third person; any group including me should be referred to as "he"), but that I'm a cis male
14:07:21 <oerjan> what about not increasing the madness further
14:08:24 <Cale> oerjan: that suggestion is inappropriate here
14:08:25 <oerjan> in any case, i refer the right to use gender-neutral pronouns for anyone being obnoxious.
14:08:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you said the world, not #esoteric.
14:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, but #esoteric's goal is to conquer the outside world, is it not?
14:09:29 <hppavilion[1]> And become The Council of the 102(+-5 or so, 0 ops)
14:12:45 <oerjan> well we cannot conquer the world it it self-destructs first tdnh
14:13:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, I can even include pronouns that are the same in english, but not in other languages
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14:35:12 <boily> hppavilion[1]: "vous" is a little bit too impersonal jqça
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15:47:42 <hppavilion[1]> The World Trade Center: Making everyone experts on structural engineering since 2001
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16:11:54 <FreeFull> Ultimate conspiracy: 9/11 was an attack by French aliens, and the Faroese government covered it up
16:13:04 <Phantom_Hoover> impossible, as the theory would require france to independently achieve a military objective
16:17:06 <FreeFull> Napoleon did well, until Russia
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16:24:34 <FreeFull> Phantom_Hoover: Corsica belongs to France
16:24:46 <FreeFull> Although he was Italian nobility
16:25:56 <oerjan> <\oren\> Wikipedia has ceased showing a set of pictures of people in articles about ethnic groups... <-- huh indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Images/Archive_6
16:26:33 <oerjan> technically italy was not a state until decades after he died hth
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16:52:09 <hppavilion[1]> The russian government will provide its citizens with all needs from A to backwards 'R'
16:53:47 <int-e> I just happen to know how that one is pronounced.
16:53:53 <HackEgo> [U+042F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YA]
16:54:24 <HackEgo> [U+2665 BLACK HEART SUIT]
16:54:51 <int-e> and... did you get lucky or did you actually know that this is the last letter in the standard sequence of the cyrillic alphabet?
16:56:21 <hppavilion[1]> `learn Я is the 8th letter of the hsilgnE alphabet
16:56:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'Я': Я is the 8th letter of the hsilgnE alphabet
16:57:52 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: as for unvoiced vowels I'd cite this example by Morgenstern: http://www.payer.de/exegese/exegese08c11.gif
16:59:21 <int-e> It's a poem; the title translates approximately as "fish lullaby", http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=19015 has some discussion on it.
17:01:58 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: and now I'd like to challenge you to come up with a more serious answer to your voiceless vowel question.
17:03:36 <int-e> (the comments point out that this might not be a lullaby but to my mind there never was any doubt about it)
17:15:07 <hppavilion[1]> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/189567/is-there-such-a-thing-as-an-unvoiced-vowel
17:18:38 <int-e> (another voiceless activity)
17:24:30 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], well obviously, how else could you whisper
17:24:56 <Phantom_Hoover> (whispering is also a good way to notice aspirated vs. unaspirated 'p')
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17:28:02 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, babies saying "mama" isn't actually addressing their mother; mothers just interpret it as meaning themselves because that's one of the first consistent noises a baby makes
17:28:13 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> There are no unvoiced vowels, are there... <-- iirc japanese vowels are unvoiced in some positions.
17:28:56 <oerjan> oh i was responding to logs.
17:31:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If the logs are talking to you, you need to stop drinking. Also, don't lumberjack while drunk.
17:33:20 <myname> how do you pronounce an unvoiced vowel?
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17:37:33 <myname> it sounds weird in a non-whispered word
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19:00:39 -!- boily has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse, and font forging | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
19:01:05 <boily> fungot: whip me, bite me, markov chain me to the wall.
19:01:06 <fungot> boily: state killing: is equal to the square root of the natural logarithm of something. " you don't always know the entire problem description and figure out what to do with
19:01:21 <shachaf> lynn: Is it category theory jargon or is it topology jargon or something?
19:01:24 <boily> hellochaf, hellynn.
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19:13:38 <boily> `relcome hwpplayer1
19:13:53 <HackEgo> hwpplayer1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
19:15:15 <hwpplayer1> are you interested in only using a language or creating a new one ?
19:15:50 <myname> mostly creating, in fact
19:16:18 <myname> even though i thought about using efghij
19:20:35 <boily> hwpplayer1: I created a few. Aubergine is my best and purplest language.
19:24:09 <zzo38> It will not be necessary adding spaces on both side of all punctuation mark for English writing.
19:24:17 <myname> is it more purple than purple?
19:27:00 <hwpplayer1> i should ask something , does esoteric mean that the language is not useful or it means a few people use that language and it is marginal for now
19:27:45 <myname> it doesn't have to be either
19:29:44 <boily> myname: purple is purpler hth
19:51:59 <shachaf> In my dream, there was a conference about cartesian closed categories called "IOCCC".
19:55:13 <zzo38> hwpplayer1: Not necessarily either; read the esolang wiki is probably better way to learn what it means.
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20:11:41 <int-e> shachaf: n-th annual symposium of the International Organisation of Cartesian Closed Categories?
20:12:13 * int-e was unsuccessful in finding a synonym for "conference" or "meeting" that starts with an "o".
20:13:00 <shachaf> Maybe it's an organization. Doesn't quite work.
20:14:32 <int-e> I don't know what the question is
20:17:23 <shachaf> Did you play _Spider and Web_?
20:17:40 <int-e> fwiw, google finds guitar amplifiers.
20:17:59 <int-e> but no, I have not continued that game
20:20:28 <zzo38> Some systems using MC6845 for video will use clock interleaving for memory access, but PC uses a priority system instead.
20:21:03 <int-e> shachaf: it's not forgotten, just waiting in a subdirectory with other games I mean to play
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20:57:31 <\oren\> how many languages are there where "mama" means mother?
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20:59:12 <\oren\> I know of at least English, Latin, and Mandarin.
20:59:33 <APic> Probably a great Number.
20:59:51 * APic spoke „Haha“ before them first, so i was told.
21:02:29 <fizzie> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mama lists 30.
21:03:10 <fizzie> That is, 30 languages that have the word. Didn't check the meanings.
21:05:20 <fizzie> Eyeballing a bit, "mother" seems like the most common meaning, but there are some others as well (grandmother, breast, father, ...)
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21:09:50 <shachaf> fizzie: But that's only languages that use that alphabet, right?
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21:22:39 <moon_> I've decided to write a esoteric operating system just for fun
21:23:07 <moon_> ill post the document on it once im done
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21:33:33 <moon_> did anyone answer what i said? my internet died
21:35:01 <zzo38> Did you ask a question?
21:36:40 <int-e> also, clog is here, so the tunes logs are working
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21:39:57 <moon_> Nah, i just stated im making a esoteric operating system zzo38
21:40:15 <moon_> and that once im done on the ideas ill put them here
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22:45:57 <\oren\> Hmm, I'm working on CAS but it's going slowly
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23:11:31 <nortti> Computer Algebra System, I'd guess
23:11:31 <\oren\> Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics. I'm adding them to my font
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23:19:50 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! what the how are you inibrouing?
23:19:59 <boily> he\\oren\! still working on your font?
23:23:10 <boily> hey, you even added mahjong! 幸せ！フワフワ！万歳！plein d'affaires de même!
23:23:19 <Phantom__Hoover> Taneb, did you shave your eyebrows and play jojen in game of thrones
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23:26:26 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and voluminous but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
23:27:11 <boily> `` sed -i 's/voluminous/above average, not too voluminous, /' wisdom/taneb
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23:36:22 <\oren\> boily: yes I added mahjong
23:36:41 <quintopia> my favorite beer is unibroue's twrrible
23:37:43 <\oren\> ᑥ looks like a really sad face
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23:43:58 <boily> quintopia quintopia quintopia
23:44:50 <quintopia> you have to respond because im drunk on beer and otherwise ill assume you hate me
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23:46:06 <boily> you are quintopia, enjoying bière du québec! c'est ce qu'il faut!
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23:48:09 <boily> translation: tu es quintopia, en train d'apprécier beer from quebec! that's how it should be!
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23:59:33 <boily> I haven't gabeered yet.
23:59:45 <boily> time to disappear to farfaraway lands...
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00:50:14 <Phantom_Hoover> im reading ethereum drama and seeing them describe javascript as 'low-level'
00:50:27 <Phantom_Hoover> i think basically JS just distorts reality away from all that is sane and good
00:51:03 <zzo38> I am not sure why they describe JavaScript as "low-level".
00:53:12 <zzo38> There are a few problems with JavaScript such as automatic-semicolon-insertion, but mostly it is OK I think. But some things are better programmed in other programming languages such as C or assembly language.
00:55:14 <zzo38> (A few of the other problems would be that it lacks macros and goto)
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00:57:08 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Javascript, low level?
00:58:33 <Phantom_Hoover> the funny part is that they are (correctly) calling the ethereum community a pack of script kiddies who know fuck all about actual coding, whilst showing that they themselves know fuck all about actual coding
00:58:35 <zzo38> I use a window manager without a desktop environment.
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01:00:31 <zzo38> I don't know; I don't use LXDE or any other desktop environment, nor do I use any IDE.
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01:04:03 <Phantom_Hoover> i just... oh my god why would you invent money governed by autonomous code running with no oversight and then say "i know what language we'll use for this! JS!"
01:04:41 <zzo38> I don't know? It doesn't make much sense to me
01:11:26 <HackEgo> A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
01:11:38 <shachaf> oerjan++ # excellent unintentional pun
01:13:54 <shachaf> The last word of the first sentence.
01:14:20 <int-e> oh right he claimed that it was unintentional
01:14:29 <int-e> I found that hard to believe
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02:09:54 <hppavilion[1]> It's always annoying when 9/11 is referred to as "the most defining event of the century"
02:10:06 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, what was the most defining event of the 20th century?
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04:01:49 <tswett> What *was* the most defining event of the 20th century?
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04:10:24 <moon_> I now offically LOVE linux
04:11:25 <zzo38> OK. What kind of distribution and software and so on are you using?
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04:15:22 <moon_> Debian LXDE/Terminal Editor: Nano/Kdevelop etc etc
04:15:45 <moon_> Also, i have yet to get it on a actual pc ): im stuck with guest additions
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04:20:21 <moon_> well now my internet is being annoying and i running at 20 kb/s )=
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04:40:04 <moon_> Seamless mode helps alot
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05:20:25 <Destructible> functions that call functions that call functions
05:20:54 <moon_> Functions only has been done
05:21:29 <Destructible> the idea is that the main code can only be so long
05:21:51 <Destructible> and so functions have to be used, to contain the code
05:22:15 <zzo38> I think that is also done, kind of
05:23:26 <moon_> sounds like minimalized functonalized C
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05:29:42 <hppavilion[1]> myname: My point was (a) it's 2016, we don't know what the defining event of the century is and (b) even if it was 2100, we probably couldn't name the most defining event of the modern era
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05:42:22 <hppavilion[1]> The head of Human Resources at a company should have the title ASE (All-Seeing Eye)
05:43:43 <hppavilion[1]> "However, there are no fnords in the advertisements"
05:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Granted, it's the page for the The Illuminatus! Trilogy
05:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Which is what brought 'fnord' into popular usage
05:56:12 <coppro> didn't it also invent fnord
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07:33:37 <izabera> http://www.binsim.com/ really interesting
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09:09:24 <hppavilion[1]> It's weird how YouTube says a particular channel was active n hours ago, but won't tell you what that activity was- if it wasn't a new video, it isn't listed at all
09:32:25 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, perhaps I should roll different first-person personal pronouns into my pronountroll not for usage by myself but by /those addressing me/
09:51:15 <hppavilion[1]> It's always fun to discover something you'd never think was possible that is now profitable
09:52:51 <hppavilion[1]> Like, I would tell you this was an April Fool's joke if I hadn't stumbled across it myself
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11:06:41 <myname> https://t.co/V1SRLKfCo7 c++
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11:11:08 <int-e> unicode is crazy... though in this particular instance one might question the wisdom of allowing whitespace in identifiers.
11:12:17 <gamemanj> Compiler developers like to remain sane
11:12:41 <gamemanj> If compiler devs had to keep track of Unicode and decide which characters are "suitable", they'd go nuts.
11:12:47 <HackEgo> [U+0430 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A]
11:13:11 <gamemanj> So they just handle it in UTF-8 and mark 0x80 to 0xFF as ID characters.
11:13:50 <gamemanj> So if you want to use emoji as variable names...
11:14:06 <gamemanj> The compiler devs just don't care since otherwise they'd go nuts.
11:14:46 <int-e> My main point was that disallowing whitespace would not really solve that problem, since there are distinct unicode codepoints that map to the same glyph anyway
11:16:42 <myname> gamemanj: you usually can just use a unicode library and say "anything that is a letter can be a variable name"
11:17:01 <myname> i am pretty sure zws do not fit in that category
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11:17:27 <gamemanj> myname: let me just go look at the size of some files for a sec...
11:18:41 <myname> int-e: you are right with your example. however, you could in theory make an editor render them differently wheres doing so on a zws is not always an option
11:18:43 <gamemanj> now go look at a windows installation of, say, Wireshark
11:18:53 <gamemanj> and you should see the problem with embedding one of these with every program
11:19:09 <myname> who said anything about embedding?
11:19:18 <gamemanj> On Linux it's a system lib but on Windows you don't get that
11:19:22 <myname> also, who cares about that size
11:19:45 <gamemanj> 24MB is pretty big when there's a much simpler solution
11:19:51 <gamemanj> which covers every sane usecase
11:19:58 <gamemanj> and is the solution that other C compilers use too
11:20:06 <myname> it is oretty big, but it is not a problem at all with current drive sizes
11:20:50 <myname> doing things the right way often is the right way
11:21:53 <gamemanj> When the right way involves shipping a 25MB library just to distingulish between characters, for a parser for a language which doesn't really need to know that information anyway,
11:22:31 <int-e> Obviously you don't need all of those 25MB for the compiler.
11:22:42 <int-e> But all this is besides the point.
11:23:40 <int-e> The C language designers (mostly compiler writers) have made a decision, and it's up to the programmers to deal with them... by making sane coding style choices.
11:24:01 <int-e> "don't use zero-width spaces in your identifiers" seems like a no-brainer.
11:25:02 <int-e> (for most purposes I would stick to ASCII outside of comments anyway)
11:25:18 <int-e> and possibly literal strings... depends.
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11:38:09 <hppavilion[1]> Am I the only one around here who wants to put all color TV to shame by making movies that are in MORE than full color?
11:38:43 <gamemanj> ...give me juuust a second to find a scene that would be really good if it was replicated via this technology
11:39:09 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Any movie that includes a nuclear detonation would also include GR
11:39:26 <gamemanj> well, I have something just a tad WORSE
11:40:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse (always safe, sane and consensual), and font forging | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
11:41:48 <gamemanj> ...waiting for things to actually synchronize...
11:42:09 <gamemanj> (Things are running rather slowly today)
11:42:16 <gamemanj> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/vlcsnap-2016-06-19-11h40m17s769.png
11:42:56 <gamemanj> I'm sure they'll love it to death
11:43:39 <hppavilion[1]> And it's actually possible because that scene appears to be 100% CGI
11:44:01 <hppavilion[1]> (Though it wouldn't work for the whole film, as not all of it is CGI apparently)
11:44:39 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: That's from the new Star Wars, isn't it?
11:44:44 <gamemanj> Actually it's the second episode of the first-2005-reboot series of Doctor Who.
11:45:37 <gamemanj> Still, the fact you got it so wrong shows that taxpayer money isn't going to waste
11:45:51 <hppavilion[1]> See, I remember seeing a ship looks like the space station in the new Star Wars
11:47:30 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe I saw it in a HISHE for one of the prequels?
11:48:36 <hppavilion[1]> I could have also seen it in a meme and assumed it was from somewhere else for some reason
11:49:42 <gamemanj> Show me your registration card, then!
11:52:27 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Shall I FTP it to you? It's signed with GPG, though my GPG is so secure that my public key is a secret
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11:53:19 <hppavilion[1]> Not to be confused with the more limited FTP = File Transfer Protocol
11:54:11 <myname> all you do is making it worse
11:57:11 <hppavilion[1]> It's funny that the south is the largest consumer of porn tagged "ebony" in the US
11:57:38 <gamemanj> it's rather unusual that you have access to such data
11:57:44 <hppavilion[1]> (well, I suppose that could be the black population rather than the outwardly racist population)
11:58:14 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Many porn sites have given anonymous statistics to scientists or even published the studies themselves
11:58:39 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Pornhub has an entire subdomain dedicated to research and data analysis
11:58:45 <int-e> porn is degrading, I don't see any contradiction
11:59:04 <gamemanj> scientific smutty sites setup studies showing some statistical subtleties
11:59:26 <hppavilion[1]> Their labs are, of course, staffed by beautiful women wearing lab coats and glasses because the producers think it makes them look smarter
12:00:27 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Is it /really/ though? I mean, if you're homophobic, you don't tend to watch lots of gay porn (well, unless you're homophobic BECAUSE you're gay and you're trying to make up for it because of the gay shaming that religion has brought down on you)
12:01:30 <hppavilion[1]> My home state clearly has high rates of ADHD; the top search term here is "compilation"
12:03:19 <hppavilion[1]> They appear to be big on (a) animation-based and (b) racially-cast
12:03:28 <myname> at least it's not cumpilation
12:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> myname: They probably lumped that in but called it "compilation" because it's less obscene
12:05:14 <myname> less obscene equals less good
12:05:19 <hppavilion[1]> The Yukon Territory is big on... tickling? Really?
12:05:37 <hppavilion[1]> And- to no one's surprise- the top term in Quebec is literally "Quebec"
12:06:14 <hppavilion[1]> There are literally 4 different provinces that all search by race, and /all of the races are different/
12:07:28 <hppavilion[1]> The most viewed category by women on /the entire north american continent/ is "Lesbian"
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12:08:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, the canada map was weighted based on other provinces
12:10:29 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, this is fun, a map of what states should be embarassed for googling more than everyone else(non-porn)
12:11:05 <hppavilion[1]> Rhode island- appropriately- wants to know the average penis size
12:11:41 <hppavilion[1]> Illinois...ans want to know whether WWE is fake (it is)
12:11:58 <hppavilion[1]> Michigan... does way too many image searches for "outhouse"
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12:14:00 <hppavilion[1]> My home city is a fan of smoking... weird, I've never searched for that
12:15:34 <hppavilion[1]> Far too many people search for "Thanksgiving", by which I mean any at all
12:16:45 <hppavilion[1]> OK, honestly Pornhub, don't try to do statistics involving age
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12:41:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The current channel discussion is: Search statistics
12:42:31 <oerjan> i shall search for it. linearly.
12:42:40 <hppavilion[1]> "Because your forebears oppressed our forebears, we are justified in hating you"
12:43:09 <oerjan> i'm in luck, i'm not descended from bears
12:43:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Really? Most people have about 4 in their family tree
12:43:41 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, what's the most recent common ancestor of bears and humans?
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12:46:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: probably back in the cretaceous, if i'm reading wikipedia right
12:47:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Have you seen Wikipedia's List of Cetations, btw?
12:47:25 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: http://www.growlrapp.com/
12:47:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's convenient. Has everyone in the channel read every Wikipedia page?
12:48:19 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I've been looking for something like that
12:48:35 <hppavilion[1]> (A convenient lookup of who to target my hatecrimes at)
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12:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuOBzWF0Aws ("If Google Was a Guy", collegehumor)
12:49:53 <hppavilion[1]> (Someone Searches "Boston Bomber", Guygle says "Real Tragedy" and she appends "Cute One")
12:51:05 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: paleontologists and molecular geneticists disagree on just about everything there btw hth
12:51:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: only those pages that were mentioned yesterday hth
12:57:02 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if Science can sue Google to get them to stop offering results claiming vaccines cause autism on the grounds that think of the children
13:09:15 <gamemanj> so the lines are assasins now?
13:16:25 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: polygonist!
13:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's like arguing it's racist to be confused when a white couple's child is black (and no adoption or such has occurred)
13:17:22 <hppavilion[1]> (I just had to check I said "adoption" instead of "abduction")
13:18:42 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, it's interesting that there are no parallelograms in Flatland (I suppose it has to do with irregularity, but still)
13:26:40 <gamemanj> ...unless you consider a line to be infinitely thin but two-sided
13:27:32 <gamemanj> Square (4) + Line (2) == Hexagon (6)
13:29:52 <gamemanj> so in other news I think hppavilion[1] should start a class called "Flatland Genetics And You: How To Optimize For Success"
13:30:10 <gamemanj> with this newfound information
13:31:22 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: In modal logic, the sum of two positive numbers can be less than the normal sum. But are there any places it can be more?
13:32:15 <gamemanj> As I said, it might not be special maths
13:32:27 <gamemanj> Just a different consideration of a line
13:36:59 <izabera> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo they opened darkforest
13:57:59 <oerjan> <boily> `` sed -i 's/voluminous/above average, not too voluminous, /' wisdom/taneb <-- WHAT DID YOU DO TO YOUR EYEBROWS
13:59:16 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
13:59:49 <oerjan> `slwd taneb//s/ but/but/
13:59:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
14:06:09 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
14:19:01 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Oh! I found where I saw the similar image!
14:23:36 <oerjan> <int-e> I found that hard to believe <-- IT'S TRUE I SWEAR
14:29:35 <hppavilion[1]> What's the proper penance for thinking "You know what would've made the original trilogy better?"
14:33:33 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSgJeVwjnpc almost makes the prequels seem good
14:34:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: reading through all of darths & droids hth
14:57:49 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, tvtropes is already preparing for the next president by referring to Obama as "then-president Barack Obama"
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14:58:29 <gamemanj> well, better to start now vs. find yourself outdated later
14:58:46 <gamemanj> by the time all the references have been found it'll have happened
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15:09:23 <oerjan> gamemanj: clearly the solution is to use a template
15:26:14 <quintopia> what is your fagorite animal to consume, if any?
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15:34:38 <quintopia> oerjan wont tell me his favorite animal to consume. what is yours?
15:35:32 <boily> quinthellopia! not too hungover from a night of debauchery and wild abandon?
15:35:52 <boily> I think my all time favourite is pork.
15:36:05 <quintopia> but i have some salty pig and biscuits to comfort me
15:37:16 <boily> oerjan: what is your favourite animal to consume?
15:37:27 <boily> quintopia: real southern biscuits?
15:38:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MailBox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47234&oldid=34448 * IAM * (+63)
15:41:37 <quintopia> i dunno. probably tinned biscuits. my dad makes the real homecooked ones
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15:44:53 <boily> I could use some gabeer, yes.
15:46:23 <quintopia> beerswap? if there are any quebeers besides unibroue, that is
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15:47:03 <oerjan> <gamemanj> The compiler devs just don't care since otherwise they'd go nuts. <-- GHC does call a unicode classification API. which means some identifiers suddenly got illegal last they updated the Unicode version.
15:47:49 <oerjan> and also they're not entirely consistent on the whitespace handling.
15:47:58 <oerjan> (which i reported as a bug once)
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15:52:16 <oerjan> . o O ( be queer with quebeer )
15:52:29 <boily> quintopia: there are many beers besides Unibroue!
15:53:07 <boily> are koalas edible?
15:58:43 <boily> Seems Good To Me hth
15:59:32 <quintopia> i lost your address. (in my irclogs somewhere but you're /right there/)
16:00:42 <boily> eeeeeh... I'd say at least two: a northbound beer and a southbound one.
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16:01:47 <boily> but a single beer is boring.
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16:06:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47235&oldid=45555 * SilverWingedSeraph * (-1) Fix number of cells on the data tape.
16:10:23 <boily> a pair of beers sounds right for a start, to gauge postal fees and if it's feasible and stuff like that.
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16:14:13 <oerjan> `learn SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail.
16:14:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'sftm': SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail.
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16:19:42 * boily casts orb of destruction. FOOM!
16:24:02 <boily> was playing crawl, and blasting critters away.
16:24:19 <boily> I ain't be destroying nobody here! that'd be mean.
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16:49:43 <quintopia> an oldie writing about growing up in england in the 50s
16:50:01 <quintopia> filled with sneering condescion towards the youth of today
16:53:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47236&oldid=47235 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+0) /* Language overview */
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17:03:38 <gamemanj> I wouldn't consider that a cute blog, myself...
17:06:45 <int-e> hmm my #esoteric equivalent of http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/ is working out well. (It's #esoteric without hppavilion[1] ...)
17:09:57 <boily> int-ello. what is that?
17:10:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:12:14 <int-e> garfieldminusgarfield is just what the name says... garfield strips with the imaginary talking cat edited out
17:12:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tounz * New user account
17:13:25 -!- Tounz has joined.
17:15:51 <Tounz> https://github.com/TortegaFR/StackBasedVirtualMachine.
17:17:11 <izabera> there's a lollipop in a commit message
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17:33:35 <HackEgo> df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
17:33:46 <HackEgo> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 0 0 0 - /
17:34:04 <izabera> `` mount; cat /proc/mounts
17:34:07 <HackEgo> none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host
17:35:37 -!- jaboja has joined.
17:35:37 <izabera> `` dd if=/dev/zero of=zero bs=1G count=1
17:35:42 <HackEgo> dd: memory exhausted by input buffer of size 1073741824 bytes (1.0 GiB)
17:36:03 <izabera> `` dd if=/dev/zero of=zero bs=1M count=1
17:36:08 <HackEgo> 1+0 records in \ 1+0 records out \ 1048576 bytes (1.0 MB) copied, 0.018102 s, 57.9 MB/s
17:36:15 <izabera> `` dd if=/dev/zero of=zero bs=1M count=100
17:36:26 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: 296 File size limit exceededdd if=/dev/zero of=zero bs=1M count=100
17:37:29 <HackEgo> whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000
17:37:47 <HackEgo> core file size (blocks, -c) 0 \ data seg size (kbytes, -d) unlimited \ scheduling priority (-e) 0 \ file size (blocks, -f) 10240 \ pending signals (-i) 1955 \ max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 0 \ max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited \ open files (-n) 102
17:38:18 <izabera> `` ulimit -a | sed 1,/open/d
17:38:20 <HackEgo> pipe size (512 bytes, -p) 8 \ POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819200 \ real-time priority (-r) 0 \ stack size (kbytes, -s) 8192 \ cpu time (seconds, -t) unlimited \ max user processes (-u) 128 \ virtual memory (kbytes, -v) unlimited \ file locks (-x)
17:39:32 <HackEgo> 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 293 \ 294 \ 295 \ 296 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms
17:39:46 <HackEgo> /proc/buddyinfo \ /proc/cgroups \ /proc/cmdline \ /proc/config.gz \ /proc/consoles \ /proc/cpuinfo \ /proc/crypto \ /proc/devices \ /proc/diskstats \ /proc/execdomains \ /proc/exitcode \ /proc/filesystems \ /proc/interrupts \ /proc/iomem \ /proc/ioports \ /proc/kallsyms \ /proc/kcore \ /proc/kmsg \ /proc/kpagecount \ /proc/kpageflags \ /proc/loa
17:40:01 <izabera> `` ls /proc/!([0-9]*) | sed 1,/kpageflags/d
17:40:03 <HackEgo> /proc/loadavg \ /proc/locks \ /proc/meminfo \ /proc/misc \ /proc/mounts \ /proc/pagetypeinfo \ /proc/partitions \ /proc/slabinfo \ /proc/softirqs \ /proc/stat \ /proc/sysemu \ /proc/sysrq-trigger \ /proc/timer_list \ /proc/uptime \ /proc/version \ /proc/vmallocinfo \ /proc/vmstat \ /proc/zoneinfo \ \ /proc/bus: \ \ /proc/driver: \ \ /proc/fs:
17:40:14 <izabera> `` ls -d /proc/!([0-9]*) | sed 1,/kpageflags/d
17:40:16 <HackEgo> /proc/loadavg \ /proc/locks \ /proc/meminfo \ /proc/misc \ /proc/mounts \ /proc/net \ /proc/pagetypeinfo \ /proc/partitions \ /proc/self \ /proc/slabinfo \ /proc/softirqs \ /proc/stat \ /proc/sys \ /proc/sysemu \ /proc/sysrq-trigger \ /proc/sysvipc \ /proc/timer_list \ /proc/tty \ /proc/uptime \ /proc/version \ /proc/vmallocinfo \ /proc/vmstat \
17:42:26 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `x': No such file or directory
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17:55:38 <HackEgo> grep: /proc/iomap: No such file or directory
17:58:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.11642
17:58:45 <izabera> `` gunzip < /proc/config.gz > out; paste out
17:58:53 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/out
18:06:22 <izabera> `` echo o > /proc/sysrq-trigger; echo alive
18:06:24 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /proc/sysrq-trigger: Permission denied \ alive
18:13:21 <izabera> i've never used usermode linux and i don't feel like compiling a kernel right now
18:13:35 <izabera> who provides /proc and /dev ?
18:17:31 <int-e> It is a significant part of the linux kernel after all...
18:18:32 <int-e> `paste /proc/mounts
18:18:38 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.26852
18:19:27 <int-e> as you can see there, there's a 'hostfs' fs type for interaction. there's also a character device, hmmm
18:19:31 <int-e> `paste /proc/devices
18:19:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.29080
18:20:01 <int-e> the ubd thing... oh it's a block device, my bad.
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18:24:36 <gamemanj> izabera: Welcome to the Gamemanj Kernel Compile Service! Provides mostly normal kernels, with only 28.8% NSA-approved code!
18:25:46 <gamemanj> Ok, up that number to 100%, they're replacing the entire source tree.
18:26:39 <MoonyTheDwarf> They already started stalking people over windows 10 (Microsoft proudly proclaimed that too, just worded diffrent)]
18:27:40 <int-e> did I mention http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse-ww/
18:28:59 <myname> i like the cyanide&happiness more
18:29:04 <gamemanj> MoonyTheDwarf: And oddly enough...
18:29:09 <gamemanj> MoonyTheDwarf: I'm not surprised.
18:30:28 <int-e> Hmm, "Where do you want to go today?" used to be an MS slogan. Now they've stopped asking that question...
18:32:01 <gamemanj> That's because they replaced it
18:32:08 <gamemanj> "Where do we want you to go today?"
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18:59:36 <hppavilion[1]> hppavillion_poke: You can choose any non-confusing nick you want as long as you keep it consistent and make backup nicks clearly reflect the base nick
19:09:03 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, evolutionarily speaking, males and females are in competition in many cases
19:09:53 <hppavilion[1]> If the mate is good, then her offspring will be good. It's in her best interests to make sure the male doesn't reproduce further, creating good offspring that don't belong to her.
19:10:52 <gamemanj> why would the male want to mate if they're going to die
19:10:54 <izabera> hppavillion_poke: fun fact: hppavilion[1]_ has the same color in weechat as hppavilion[1]
19:11:14 <izabera> have you ever seen futurama?
19:11:27 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Because if they don't mate then their genes stop with them
19:11:30 <izabera> zoidberg's home planet etc
19:11:53 <gamemanj> what about mating followed by not dying
19:11:57 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: The ones that decide it's worth it are the only ones who have babies
19:12:06 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Well that's where the competition comes in
19:12:24 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's ideal for the males to mate without dying, but it's ideal for the females to be the only mate of the male
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19:42:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.21164
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19:56:43 <^v> ive been working on a high level language that compiles to brainfuck if anyone is interested, https://github.com/P-T-/bftoast
19:57:41 <^v> by the end of the week i think ill have basic programs compiled (only inline functions)
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19:58:54 <^v> and later ill have recursive functions, yieldable tasks, and a few complex types
20:00:06 <^v> after version 1.0 ill work on namespaces, structs, OO classes, and more advanced task functions
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20:16:43 <hppavilion[1]> (Massively Singleplayer Offline Role-Playing Games)
20:17:52 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: But those aren't massively singleplayer; they're just singleplayer
20:18:00 <gamemanj> then what's massively singleplayer
20:18:12 <hppavilion[1]> What's the most absurd game genre acronym available?
20:19:17 <gamemanj> "Dynamically Attacking New Game Objectives"?
20:20:04 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Also, replace "Dynamically" with "Radically" and you've got a book deal and the funding of several major corporations
20:20:40 <gamemanj> DANGO is nicer! Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango daik--*Interrupted during run by length limit.*
20:20:44 <^v> massively singleplayer
20:20:50 <^v> so like no mans sky?
20:21:16 <^v> technically a multiplayer game but you are so far away it might aswell be singleplayer?
20:21:35 <hppavilion[1]> (I guess curiosity would be kind of a casual MMO puzzle?)
20:21:44 <gamemanj> "Jumping Around Silly Puzzles, and Editing Registry"
20:22:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hahahahahahahaha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_video_game is a real thing
20:22:44 <^v> AVGN bible games?
20:23:28 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: I will not fall for your tricks! I know you inserted zero-width-spaces to take me to a rickroll page... uh, right? Actually, I'm not sure. Are those my indicator for ZWSes or just dust on the... nvm. They're just dust on the screen.
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20:24:21 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: How would ZWSes even rickroll you there?
20:24:33 <hppavilion[1]> Besides, I would most certainly duckroll you rather than rickroll
20:24:46 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: the domain name
20:25:03 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: It probably isn't
20:25:06 <myname> gamemanj: that doesn't make sense
20:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I think there's one called codespells that is basically a wizardy game with actually code
20:25:40 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's certainly pseudo-possible; probably not here, but it /could have been/
20:26:28 * gamemanj messes around... "en.wikipediෝ.org"... eh, close enough
20:40:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MeowflashDaProgrammer * New user account
20:50:02 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: first person train simulator 1887. Now includes simulation of diseases that affect breathing!
20:50:36 <gamemanj> (The special edition package contains an additional lump of coal.)
20:50:45 <gamemanj> (It's generally sold at Christmas.)
20:51:24 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, it looks like John 3:16 in phrased radically differently in the SAB translation
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21:24:16 <hppavilion[1]> It's the current year, so why are things I don't like still around?
21:27:45 <^v> new brainfuck derivative: yiffFuck
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21:33:44 <^v> <ds84182> no
21:33:44 <^v> <ds84182> That is a stupid idea and you should be neutered
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21:49:52 <Koen_> ^v: the consensus is "no more brainfuck derivatives"
21:51:20 <myname> at least not if it is not interesting
21:51:31 <myname> which is pretty unlikely for a bf derivate
21:54:16 <^v> i have a goal of atleast 20 generic boring bf derivatives by the end of the month
21:54:35 <^v> each with absolutely no interpreter and misleading / nonfunctional example code
21:54:45 <^v> i will make esolangs great again
21:55:00 <^v> by blocking out the infirior complex well thought out languages
21:55:11 <^v> #MAKE_ESOLANGS_GREAT_AGAIN
21:56:34 <Koen_> new game: hit the "random page" button on the esolangs wiki
21:56:42 <Koen_> you win if you do not hit a brainfuck derivative
21:57:10 <myname> or feature request: "random non-bf page"
21:57:17 <Koen_> (I lied, it's not new)
21:57:22 <Koen_> oh, that would be a good one
21:57:58 <myname> from the newer languages, efghij is my absolute favorite
21:58:07 <nortti> https://archive.org/details/pocorgtfo12 has translating arbitrary C programs to bytecode that can be executed without branches, by the way of x86 mov
21:58:34 <myname> there is a github repo for movfuscating
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22:06:58 <^v> making branchless code is not a new concept
22:07:23 <^v> but the difficulty depends on the language
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22:17:15 <quintopia> koen: I wanted to play this game. i lost.
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23:23:46 <oerjan> @tell izabera <izabera> `` gunzip < /proc/config.gz > out; paste out <-- paste can be piped into hth
23:33:28 <\oren\> hmmm I was thinking about heapsort
23:35:40 <\oren\> ooh Scholar Refia has zettai ryouki
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23:46:25 <int-e> oerjan: I thought about suggesting that... but we get a commit either way...
23:47:09 <HackEgo> bin/zalgo bin/zalgoerjan bin/zalgoverload bin/zalgreet bin/zzote
23:49:20 <oerjan> int-e: yeah but we don't mess up the top directory
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01:35:32 <oerjan> `` zalgo <<<Ohai esoteric
01:36:18 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/python \ import codecs,sys,random \ stdin=codecs.getreader("utf-8")(sys.stdin) \ stdout=codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.stdout) \ x=[unichr(0x300+i) for i in range(0,112)+[393,2887]] \ def z(n,c): \ if c in ["\n"]+x: \ n=0 \ return u"".join(x[random.randrange(0,len(x))] for i in range(n)) \ stdout.write(u"".join(c+z(2,c) for c in st
01:37:02 <oerjan> we have a script for fixing that, but it's much easier to use from bash than python
01:37:41 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi
01:40:18 <HackEgo> bin/` \ bin/̊ \ bin/ \ bin/! \ bin/? \ bin/¿ \ bin/' \ bin/@ \ bin/* \ bin/؟ \ bin/ \ bin/ \ bin/1 \ bin/5 \ bin/e \ bin/f \ bin/h \ bin/q
01:40:28 <HackEgo> echo elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?
01:40:50 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
01:40:56 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....°@.....@.......ð..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....Ì......Ì........ ............Ð......Ð`.....Ð`.................... ...........ø......ø`.....ø`..... ....... ................
01:41:09 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
01:42:10 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \
01:42:29 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
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01:43:54 <HackEgo> echo $(ls bin | shuf -n 1) $*
01:44:43 <oerjan> that doesn't really work, does it
01:46:13 <HackEgo> <int-e> ` chmod +x bin/\\* \ <int-e> ` echo \'echo $(ls bin | shuf -n 1) $*\' > bin/\\*
01:47:17 <HackEgo> cat: bin/<: No such file or directory
01:48:05 <oerjan> hm #! interpreters cannot be scripts, can they...
01:48:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/|*: No such file or directory
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04:08:29 <zzo38> You don't need "random non-bf page". Make SQL codes feature, you can then write that as a SQL code.
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05:53:07 <izabera> first actual day @ new job
05:53:28 <izabera> now i'm on my second train to get there
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06:39:13 <\oren\> second train the get there?
06:39:46 <\oren\> What miracle land do you live in?
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06:40:47 <izabera> do you only have one train in norway?
06:41:40 <izabera> i may be wrong on the norway part
06:42:55 <coppro> oerjan is the one train?
06:44:20 <\oren\> no but my city has only two subway lines
06:44:59 <\oren\> almost everyone has to take cars to work
06:45:15 <izabera> i live some 120km away and don't own a car
06:45:31 <zzo38> When creating a window in X you can specify the depth independently of the visual, but the depth is already defined by the visual anyways. What exactly does it mean if a window has a different depth than the visual?
06:45:40 <\oren\> you'd essentially be screwed in Toronto
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07:21:58 <hppavilion[1]> "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow" (Ecclesiastes 1:18)
07:27:49 <zzo38> If you have wisdom and knowledge they might have sorrow/grief, but that doesn't make science and learning to be bad.
07:33:48 <asie> hppavilion[1]: That is not to say that
07:34:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sorrow: not found
07:34:14 <asie> Why do you think negative emotions and feelings are inherently bad?
07:34:27 <zzo38> It is not supposed to be sorrow it is supposed to be sorry
07:34:41 <asie> They're just emotions. They can lead to great things.
07:35:07 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: "programmer's google"? I don't get it.
07:35:23 <shachaf> Are you talking about the search engine and/or the company?
07:35:41 <HackEgo> A programmer's google is equal to 10^100, or 110
07:36:06 <hppavilion[1]> `` mv "wisdom/programmer's google" "wisdom/programmer's googol"
07:36:16 <HackEgo> A programmer's google is equal to 10^100, or 110
07:36:18 <zzo38> Wisdom and knowledge and learning can be the good things.
07:36:41 <hppavilion[1]> `` sed -i 's/google/googol/' 'wisdom/programmer's googol'
07:36:42 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
07:37:21 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn programmer's googol/A programmer's googol is equal to 10^100, or 110
07:37:25 <HackEgo> Relearned «programmer's googol»
07:37:29 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: The joke is ^ is bitwise xor, not exponentiation
07:38:28 <shachaf> I also don't really get Я.
07:38:45 <shachaf> None of the letters in hsilgnE are flipped.
07:38:46 <HackEgo> Я is the 8th letter of the hsilgnE alphabet
07:39:03 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yeah, because the letters are flipped before mirroring.
07:39:15 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Natural language isn't neat and tidy like programming
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09:07:02 <HackEgo> jwinslow23//JWinslow23 is not here.
09:12:25 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
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09:16:07 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
09:18:04 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
09:18:26 <shachaf> Is Stephen Wolfram a mathematical tanebvention?
09:18:39 <shachaf> I guess he's Mathematica l.
09:18:50 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
09:19:20 <HackEgo> This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it.
09:19:49 <shachaf> `slwd this sentence//s#not invented by Taneb#invented by oerjan#
09:19:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/this sentence//This sentence was invented by oerjan. Taneb invented it.
09:20:25 <HackEgo> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan.
09:20:54 <Moon_> Taneb invented everything
09:21:11 <Taneb> I didn't invent anything to do with sex
09:21:31 <shachaf> I thought you invented the torus?
09:21:35 <b_jonas> Do you think radix 5×6 as defined here counts as an esoteric radix => http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-09.2335.html ? It probably does, because the intent is not to use it, as opposed to some of the weird numerical notations used in the past and sometimes the present (I hate roman numerals).
09:23:08 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s#the reals#Klein bottles, the reals#
09:23:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
09:25:02 <FreeFull> `wisdom <# The famous waffleheart.
09:25:03 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
09:25:12 <shachaf> `le/rn_append the universe/Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
09:25:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'the universe': The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
09:26:38 <HackEgo> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan.
09:26:56 <shachaf> `` ls -l wisdom/{the\ ,}universe
09:26:59 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 107 Jun 20 08:24 wisdom/the universe \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 67 Dec 9 2015 wisdom/universe
09:27:39 <shachaf> `learn A universe is a poem in one stanza.
09:27:43 <HackEgo> Relearned 'universe': A universe is a poem in one stanza.
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10:27:29 <b_jonas> fungot, do you have chickenpox?
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14:05:48 <oerjan> <\oren\> and some trams <-- my city has only one tram hth
14:06:03 <oerjan> several trains, though.
14:07:54 <oerjan> (well, those generally leave and arrive in the city. there are no internal train lines)
14:08:39 <oerjan> but it's the regional train hub of mid norway
14:11:59 <b_jonas> yeah. whereas I live in a proper city, with no hurricanes or earthquakes, but several lines of trams
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14:12:47 <oerjan> my city doesn't have hurricanes or earthquakes either. or volcanos. all we get is the occasional storm.
14:13:10 <oerjan> i guess that can be a hurricane, in theory.
14:14:51 <oerjan> maybe the scientists will come up with some mutant monsters.
14:16:21 <b_jonas> no lava spitting mountains or dark water splitting mountains
14:16:30 <oerjan> izabera: are you working in an evil lair on the slope of vt. vesuvius twh
14:17:05 <oerjan> (or even better, inside)
14:17:32 <oerjan> (but i'm not sure real evil lair technology is that advanced yet)
14:18:25 <oerjan> "dark water splitting mountains"?
14:19:19 <oerjan> i suppose that may just be scenery
14:19:40 <oerjan> now if the water were actually black...
14:20:53 <b_jonas> oerjan: dark water is what you have in video games instead of lava on Game Boy, since it only has a black and white display with crude graphics. it doesn't look like lava at all.
14:21:15 <b_jonas> I think I even added a wisdom for this
14:21:48 <oerjan> but now i have an image of a dark mountain rising up from a dark sea
14:22:18 <oerjan> with assorted ominous figures flying to and fro
14:22:30 <b_jonas> `slashlearn dark water/Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imaginations.
14:22:34 <b_jonas> `slashlearn dark water/Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination.
14:22:45 <HackEgo> Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination.
14:23:25 <oerjan> technically a lot of real lava is black when it's cooled down to only slightly lethal
14:24:18 <oerjan> (or not so slightly. there's a tvtropes page for this stuff)
14:24:24 <b_jonas> oerjan: sure, but video game lava isn't real lava
14:24:44 <oerjan> i'm just saying that being dark is not necessarily disqualifying
14:24:57 <b_jonas> oerjan: sure, dark is fine, it just looks to me like water
14:25:02 <oerjan> now, being able to step right next to it with no harm, on the other hand...
14:25:09 <b_jonas> the Danube looks quite dark too
14:25:19 <b_jonas> and so does the Balaton too
14:25:39 <oerjan> the Danube being lava would have made much of european history a lot stranger
14:26:03 <b_jonas> How would you even get lava in a castle?
14:26:09 <oerjan> i guess it would just have been an impenetrable barrier
14:26:20 <oerjan> b_jonas: evil lair technology hth
14:32:18 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/this sentence
14:32:37 <HackEgo> shachaf oerjan shachaf shachaf oerjan elliott shachaf
14:33:26 <oerjan> `hoag wisdom/this sentence
14:33:34 <HackEgo> <shachaf> slwd this sentence//s#not invented by Taneb#invented by oerjan# \ <oerjan> revert \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/was not/was/\' wisdom/\'this sentence\' \ <shachaf> ` sed -i \'s/was/was not/\' wisdom/this\\ sentence \ <oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <shachaf> echo >wisdom/this\\ sentence \'This sentence was invented by Taneb. Taneb in
14:35:05 * oerjan wonders why he reverted the last time
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14:35:58 <oerjan> `slwd this sentence//s/oerjan/shachaf/
14:36:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/this sentence//This sentence was invented by shachaf. Taneb invented it.
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14:36:28 <oerjan> @tell shachaf i made this sentence more accurate hth
14:37:51 <HackEgo> The magic was in you all along. \ Taneb invented it.
14:38:24 <b_jonas> I should write that properly. And make it add other suffixes randomly, like "Except in bed." or "Except on Tuesdays.
14:41:10 <izabera> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4ov74y/ovh_founder_on_twitter_canonical_is_attempting_to/
14:42:12 <HackEgo> Nausea \ 1B \ Sorcery \ All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. \ EX-C, 7E-C, 8ED-C
14:42:32 <b_jonas> `random-card 1B\nSorcery\nAll creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.
14:42:35 <HackEgo> Nausea \ 1B \ Sorcery \ All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. \ EX-C, 7E-C, 8ED-C
14:42:37 <b_jonas> `random-card 1B\nSorcery\nAll creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.
14:42:40 <HackEgo> Shrivel \ 1B \ Sorcery \ All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. \ ROE-C, M14-C, MM2-C
14:46:37 <HackEgo> Gryff's Boon \ W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 and has flying. \ {3}{W}: Return Gryff's Boon from your graveyard to the battlefield attached to target creature. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery. \ SOI-U
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15:06:01 <oerjan> @ask shachaf did you misspell "indiscrete" on purpose?
15:06:18 <HackEgo> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
15:29:43 <int-e> oerjan: fwiw I thought "indiscreet" looked deliberate
15:30:53 <int-e> also I like the idea of a universe spilling secrets
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16:21:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IANAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47237 * FMota * (+1392) Created page with "IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) is a programming language. Programs in this language are presented in the form of a legal contract, and they run with the aid of a human interpreter..."
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16:27:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:FMota]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47238&oldid=35261 * FMota * (+14)
16:30:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47239&oldid=47080 * FMota * (+46) /* General languages */ Added IANAL.
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17:04:08 <oerjan> glad that's settled tdh
17:04:54 <shachaf> oerjan: i was going to make more of a pun there but i couldn't think of one
17:05:19 <shachaf> maybe it would go ebtterin the other wisdom entry
17:05:32 <HackEgo> A universe is a poem in one stanza.
17:11:10 <oerjan> i dunno, that one looks better when concise.
17:14:05 <shachaf> `1 xxd wisdom/this\ sentence
17:14:10 <HackEgo> 1/1:0000000: 5468 6973 2073 656e 7465 6e63 6520 7761 This sentence wa \ 0000010: 7320 696e 7665 6e74 6564 2062 7920 7368 s invented by sh \ 0000020: 6163 0f68 6166 2e20 5461 6e65 6220 696e ac.haf. Taneb in \ 0000030: 7665 6e74 6564 2069 742e 0a vented it.. \
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17:43:09 <oerjan> shachaf: i figured if i didn't put that in, you'd just `revert it hth
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18:46:58 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
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18:47:25 <shachaf> is the sextant a mathematical tanebvention
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20:11:06 <\oren\> oh so thats what ianal stands for. i have been reading it in my head literally.
20:18:22 <\oren\> why doesnt C have a rotate operator?
20:18:46 <\oren\> mpst processors have a rotate instruction.
20:20:21 <\oren\> oh maybe the pdp 11 didnt
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20:25:19 <\oren\> for that matter whytf don't more languages allow you to test for overflow simply? most processors have an overflow flag for that purpose!
20:28:49 <\oren\> goddamn people pandering to special snowflake processor designers
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21:19:09 <izabera> gcc lets you use all of that with __builtin_*
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21:26:29 <FreeFull> \oren\: Rust has a rotate method
21:30:17 <int-e> . o O ( so does Postscript )
21:31:06 <FreeFull> x.rotate_left(y) and x.rotate_right(y) (Yeah, the names are pretty long.. )
21:32:11 <fizzie> Most compilers turn (a >> K) | (a << (W-K)) of a W-bit unsigned type into a single rotate-by-K instruction.
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21:34:02 <fizzie> `` echo 'unsigned f(unsigned x) { return (x << 7) | (x >> (32-7)); }' | gcc -x c - -o - -S | tr '\t' ' ' | grep roll
21:34:40 <izabera> it's doubly stupid that you have to write it like that
21:36:14 <\oren\> hmm what if i made an assembler with a c like syntax
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21:38:30 <izabera> a language where you can add * anywhere randomly and it will still be valid
21:40:08 <\oren\> Or for 6502: A+=*(0x6000+X)
21:42:45 <\oren\> which turns into 7d 00 60
21:43:34 <\oren\> ideally it can figure out even ones that take more than one instruction
21:45:18 <\oren\> hmm and maybe it would also have type inference for pointers
21:46:31 <\oren\> but the point is this would avoid learning so many opcode mnemonics
21:54:25 <\oren\> you would still have to know what the registers are named but perhaps those would be in a header
21:57:51 <int-e> \oren\: so what are you imagining to do with the MMX/SSE{,2,3,4} mess?
21:58:23 <\oren\> probably the type sysyem will include arrays or structs
21:59:10 <int-e> ah, the AVX family seems to be the most recent addition there.
21:59:28 * int-e has stopped paying attention to processor developements :/
21:59:29 <pikhq> \oren\: FWIW those have been done; they're generally considered "high level assemblers".
21:59:44 <pikhq> (not that that should stop you)
22:02:04 <\oren\> pikhq: ive looked at a few...
22:03:29 <\oren\> they seem to revolve around providing if and while rather than algebraic notaton
22:06:00 <\oren\> basically ive becone fed up with c. i just wish gcc would stop optimizing based on undefined behaviour and instead define said behaviour in a useful and consistent manner
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22:07:10 <pikhq> A huge amount of UB comes from C wanting to support different CPUs without requiring inefficient code gen, FWIW...
22:07:35 <pikhq> If GCC decided to abandon that, then it'd in some cases be forced to, well, emit inefficient code to support the semantics.
22:08:29 <\oren\> well what they could do is have a flag -fx86semantics
22:08:49 <pikhq> Would that include the floating point semantics?
22:09:17 <\oren\> yes it would just do whatever the obvious thing is
22:09:34 <pikhq> Then it would be forced to do a software floating point implementation.
22:10:13 <\oren\> the obbvious thing is that adding two doubles emits a fadd
22:10:14 <pikhq> ... Because x86 is unique in having 80-bit floats. And only 80-bit floats.
22:10:40 <pikhq> Unless you use SSE2 math, but most on x86 don't.
22:11:11 <int-e> -ffloat-store exists for a reason.
22:11:29 <int-e> but I don't think that's the stuff \oren\ is complaining about anyway
22:11:40 <\oren\> right. essentially i want a flag that defines things as the most obvious way to do in asm
22:12:01 <int-e> it's thing like "oh this code path dereferences a null pointer, which is undefined behavior, so let's mark it as never taken"
22:12:20 <int-e> and breaking overflow checks
22:12:32 <pikhq> int-e: -ffloat-store produces non-conformant behavior... But, on the other hand, on compilers before GCC 5, the default was both non-conformant *and utterly inconsistent*. :)
22:14:31 <pikhq> (-ffloat-store stores intermediates to the stack as 64-bit or 32-bit floats immediately. What C requires is intermediates only get reduced down to that on a cast or store to double or float; what GCC did was reduce down to that whenever it would spill to the stack.)
22:15:35 <\oren\> int-e: yeah. the overflow of signed integers has -fwrapv but ideally there should be something that defines all UB.
22:38:22 <\oren\> accessing an undefined variable shoukd just give you some value. it shouldn't delete the code of the entire containing function..
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22:44:00 <fizzie> Well, now. The x87 FPU control word *does* have a precision control, being able to select single (24), double (53) or double extended (64) precision.
22:44:22 <fizzie> "These settings are provided to support IEEE Standard 754 and to provide compatibility with the specifications of certain existing programming languages."
22:44:40 <fizzie> (From what I recall, they don't affect the exponent range, though.)
22:47:15 <pikhq> fizzie: Yup, they can't really be used for saner floats because of that.
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23:02:37 <lambdabot> CYUL 202100Z 22025G33KT 30SM FEW075 SCT250 32/16 A2975 RMK CU1CI3 SLP074 DENSITY ALT 2300FT
23:03:02 <boily> thirty-fungotting-two outside. sunny, face wind. much fun to bike. bleh.
23:03:32 <lambdabot> CYUL 202100Z 22025G33KT 30SM FEW075 SCT250 32/16 A2975 RMK CU1CI3 SLP074 DENSITY ALT 2300FT
23:03:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:03:36 <lambdabot> ENVA 202150Z 16015KT CAVOK 16/07 Q1003 RMK WIND 670FT 18024G38KT
23:03:52 * boily should import some ørjanlandweather
23:04:16 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
23:04:18 <lambdabot> CYUL 202100Z 22025G33KT 30SM FEW075 SCT250 32/16 A2975 RMK CU1CI3 SLP074 DENSITY ALT 2300FT \ ENVA 202150Z 16015KT CAVOK 16/07 Q1003 RMK WIND 670FT 18024G38KT \ ESSB 202150Z AUTO 15005KT 9999 NCD 14/10 Q1014 \ KOAK 202153Z 28014KT 10SM FEW080 FEW120 23/11 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP181 T02330111
23:04:33 <lambdabot> KSJC 202153Z 30013G18KT 10SM FEW070 SCT120 SCT200 29/07 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP173 T02890067
23:04:55 <boily> hellochaf. please stop moving twh
23:05:13 <lambdabot> KPHX 202151Z 18009KT 10SM FEW120 FEW200 SCT250 46/03 A2977 RMK AO2 SLP056 T04560028
23:05:51 <lambdabot> CYYZ 202118Z 24020G28KT 15SM BKN060TCU BKN075 30/21 A2977 RMK TCU5AC2 SLP081 DENSITY ALT 2500FT
23:06:03 <lambdabot> LLBG 202150Z 18004KT CAVOK 25/18 Q1010 NOSIG
23:09:08 <boily> Canada is topping the temperatures. there's something wrong going on...
23:09:47 <lambdabot> FTTJ 202100Z 23004KT 9999 FEW040 FEW050CB 28/23 Q1013 NOSIG
23:10:17 <boily> it's warmer here than N'Djamena. please someone who has admin access reboot the Earth.
23:10:33 <shachaf> boily: did you see KPHX hth
23:11:23 <boily> aberrant outlier. statistically unsound, and it goes against my rant.
23:11:54 <boily> I highly doubt it's possible to reach +46 in the K??? block hth
23:12:05 <\oren\> toronto has a horrible heat island
23:12:29 <boily> okay, KPHX is Phoenix. perfectly plausible.
23:12:48 <boily> \oren\: the Big T is disastrous for heat.
23:13:02 <\oren\> when you enter the farmland the temperature drops 10 degrees on a typical summer
23:14:12 <\oren\> one day ill run for mayor and build a giant air conditioned dome over the entire GTA
23:15:06 <boily> you should build it around here. much better immo.
23:15:27 <\oren\> it will be a big beautiful dome, and ill make the albertans pay for it!
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23:15:53 <boily> oh. please yourself! as long as they pay I'm fine with it.
23:16:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FiM++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47240&oldid=45608 * 85.244.128.237 * (-5)
23:17:19 <lambdabot> KCHD 202147Z 17007KT 20SM FEW200 45/03 A2980
23:17:40 <lambdabot> KTUS 202153Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 43/02 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP074 T04330022
23:17:47 <boily> okay, okay. american heatwave. I'm still complaining, tho!
23:17:59 <shachaf> You know, when I moved to the US, I thought it was a cold country.
23:18:24 <\oren\> the dome will generate revenue as it will be opaque abd white, so we can project advertisements onto it to be visible to everyone in the city
23:18:26 <shachaf> Anyway does Arizona even really count?
23:18:29 <lambdabot> KSAN 202151Z 18009KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 25/16 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP123 FU SCT100 T02500161
23:19:13 <\oren\> the big dipper will be replaced by the coca cola logo
23:20:18 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, remember _The Man Who Sold the Moon_?
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23:20:59 <\oren\> shachaf: well it would only visible from inside the dome
23:21:24 <\oren\> so revenue would go to the municipal government only.
23:21:40 * boily mapoles the corporate shill out of \oren\
23:21:57 <shachaf> "In Robert A. Heinlein's 1951 novella The Man Who Sold the Moon the protagonist raises funds for his lunar ambitions by publicly describing means of covering the visible lunar face in advertising and propaganda, and then taking money not to do so."
23:22:21 <\oren\> lol that could also work
23:25:08 <\oren\> we could project visuals of the night sky onto the dome with brightness enhanced making toronto the only metropolis where the milky way is clearly visible
23:26:34 <Koen_> shachaf: he bought the moon with money he got for not buying it?
23:26:41 <\oren\> in emergencies the dome coukd also display news footage or instructions for response personnel
23:26:47 <shachaf> Koen_: For not advertising on it, I guess?
23:26:58 <Koen_> that sounds like diverting money
23:27:06 <shachaf> I'm not sure that he bought the moon. I guess he did?
23:27:16 <shachaf> But I think that story is mainly about how he sold it.
23:27:19 <Koen_> there is an iranian film about the death penalty
23:27:34 <shachaf> \oren\: Or a picture of a bat?
23:27:42 <Koen_> the father of a murdered girl asks the father of the murderer for money in exchange of which he will not press charges
23:28:21 <Koen_> but it turns out that since men are worth more than women, the state won't execute the murderer unless the family of the victim pays the difference
23:28:41 <Koen_> so the father of the victim is planning to use the money he got for not pressing charges to pay for the execution
23:32:08 <\oren\> hmm it appears that noone has proposed an *opaque* done...
23:33:51 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, holy fuck i thought those metars were in fahrenheit
23:38:01 <boily> bonne ploeirjane lune et bjohan senlstice!
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23:49:26 <oerjan> <\oren\> oh so thats what ianal stands for. i have been reading it in my head literally. <-- the beauty is that it doesn't really change the meaning much hth
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01:44:16 <quintopia> @tell boily Hope you like dark and malty. You're getting 24floz of barleywine and stout for a grand total of 2.94floz of alcohol.
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04:14:17 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdom/tanebvention | tac
04:14:21 <HackEgo> <oerjan> mv wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ <ais523> revert 3 \ <ais523> revert 87c64ef250a0 \ <oerjan> mv wisdom/tanebvention{s,} \ <boily> cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ <oerjan> sed -i \'s/torus,/torus, Stephen Wolfram,/\' wisdom/tanebvention \ <FireFly> sed -i \'s/modules/&, Chu spaces/\' wisdom/tanebvention \ <oerj
04:14:26 <shachaf> `` hoag wisdom/tanebventions | tac
04:14:29 <HackEgo> <Taneb> learn Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders \ <oerjan> mv wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ <Taneb> learn Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, and Go \ <oerjan> mv wisdom/tanebvention{s,} \ <Taneb> learn Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, and G
04:14:39 <shachaf> whoa, Taneb invented Tanebventions?
04:14:52 <shachaf> I kind of assumed it was oerjan or something.
04:16:09 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
04:16:32 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s#p#Tanebventions, p#
04:16:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
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04:18:19 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
04:20:12 <shachaf> Hmm, I was going to make a version of sled that doesn't write out the file, for testing in /msg, but it's too much of a hassle.
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05:42:48 <Cale> http://iml.univ-mrs.fr/~girard/mustard/article.html
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06:23:33 <hppavilion[1]> * - freenode runs an open proxy scanner. Please join #freenode for
06:23:34 <hppavilion[1]> * - any network-related questions or queries, where a number of
06:23:34 <hppavilion[1]> * - volunteer staff and helpful users will be happy to assist you.
06:23:35 <hppavilion[1]> * - You can meet us at FOSSCON (http://www.fosscon.org) where we get
06:23:37 <hppavilion[1]> * - together with like-minded FOSS enthusiasts for talks and
06:23:45 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an ISO standard for controlling death rays?
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07:06:38 <izabera> wow there's already a hd-ts torrent of finding dory
07:22:21 <zzo38> My own new kind of computer design is it is also with MIDI (not only for music).
07:25:44 <pikhq> izabera: Somebody's getting fired.
07:26:41 <izabera> i'm sorry for them *eats popcorn watching finding dory*
07:40:51 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, are there any chat applications that actually employ demotivation tunnels?
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07:44:32 <Destructible> ___ ___ _______ __ __ _______ / /__/ // ____// / / / / ___ /| / __ // ____// /____ / /____ / /__/ / / /___/|/__//______//______//______//______/ / __ |___|/|__||______||______||______||______|/
07:44:42 <shachaf> Please don't spam the channel.
07:45:17 <shachaf> Spam is worse than silence.
07:45:41 <shachaf> For that matter, so is that "anyone here?" thing you always do.
07:46:02 <hppavilion[1]> Destructible: Also, it wasn't empty, it's just that no one said anything in the 9 seconds after you joined
07:46:34 <hppavilion[1]> I said something a couple minutes ago and a response would have come through shortly after I assume
07:46:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Do you know of any such chat application?
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07:48:38 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Chat applications employing demotivational tunnels as the primary interface, but in a streamlined fashion
07:49:19 <shachaf> I don't know what those are.
07:54:24 <izabera> <Destructible> ___ ___ _______ __ __ _______ / /__/ // ____// / / / / ___ /| / __ // ____// /____ / /____ / /__/ / / /___/|/__//______//______//______//______/ / __ |___|/|__||______||______||______||______|/
07:54:29 <izabera> what is that supposed to be?
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07:57:14 <izabera> oh i rearranged it and this came up
07:57:18 <izabera> ___ ___ _______ __ __ _______
07:57:20 <izabera> / /__/ // ____// / / / / ___ /|
07:57:22 <izabera> / __ // ____// /____ / /____ / /__/ / /
07:57:24 <izabera> /___/|/__//______//______//______//______/ /
07:57:26 <izabera> |___|/|__||______||______||______||______|/
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08:42:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
08:43:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pseudo: not found
08:43:55 <izabera> does anyone know how those self extracting zip archives work?
08:44:14 <izabera> in my understanding there's a program and then they append the archive at the end of it
08:44:29 <izabera> they must store the offset of the archive somewhere
08:46:15 <hppavilion[1]> Have there been any terrorist attacks recently enough that it'd be insensitive to make a 'fork bomb' joke?
08:47:04 <\oren\> There's always terrorists attacking somewhere.
08:49:10 <izabera> or they put some kind of marker and the program scans itself to find it
08:49:10 <izabera> i guess it's probably a fixed offset and they compute it once per architecture and then reuse the same executable and recompute it when they recompile to update their program
08:51:40 <zzo38> For ZIP archives I think it is a marker.
08:52:07 <zzo38> So, if you append a ZIP archive to a PNG picture, a program that reads PNG or ZIP will be able to read the corresponding part just fine (I have tried this).
08:53:10 <izabera> so is there a string that will never be part of an elf or pe file?
08:53:23 <izabera> something that can be used as a marker
08:53:49 <zzo38> izabera: That is impossible I think, but the program could be written to avoid it so that the marker can be found.
08:54:21 <izabera> wouldn't that require some major hacking in the compiler?
08:56:22 <zzo38> I am making a program called Xwicketset it is another C library that goes over Xlib to provide many additional functions including widgets. For example to deal with resources there are functions XwicGetResource, XwicGetLeafResource, XwicGetStringResource. The most complicated function so far is XwicCreateMainWindow, which is more than fifty lines long, and uses some of the other functions.
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09:08:34 <zzo38> Have you made any programming with X window system before?
09:09:50 <zzo38> I still think X is better though; I don't like Wayland
09:15:11 <zzo38> It seem Canonical does not like Wayland either so they invented Mir. I don't like either of those and believe X11 should be replaced by X12 instead (I have written many ideas about how X version 12 could be made up).
09:15:40 <izabera> they just wanted to be unique
09:24:42 <\oren\> they should just make a version of X that removes all the parts that noone uses
09:26:23 <\oren\> This would break compatibility with lots of very old X programs, but people who want to use those can use the old version of X
09:27:14 <\oren\> This would solve the problem of "X is bloated" without creating the problem of "now we're running both wayland and X"
09:28:11 <zzo38> Some things I would remove from X include such thing as GLX, Xcursor, and several other extensions, as well as the protocol requests for setting the font path and screen saver controls (and use separate methods of setting these things).
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09:31:55 <zzo38> My method would be to implement a proxy to convert between X11 and X12 requests for the cases where the program is not modified to work natively, as well as to implement a proxy for doing security features.
09:32:20 <fizzie> izabera: At least zip files have the directory part at the end of the file.
09:33:53 <izabera> ah that's smart, put the metadata at the end
09:36:10 <fizzie> You can see this in action in unzip's I-don't-know-this-file error: "End-of-central-directory signature not found. Either this file is not a zipfile, or it constitutes one disk of a multi-part archive. In the latter case the central directory and zipfile comment will be found on the last disk(s) of this archive."
09:39:22 <fizzie> Self-extracting rars go with the marker approach -- unarchivers skip any leading bytes that precede the first occurrence of an 8-byte signature ("Rar!\x1a\x07\x01\x00"), failing if that signature is not found within the first megabyte.
09:43:06 <lifthrasiir> fizzie: isn't that generally true for ZIP files as well?
09:43:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: isn't that sort of what happens with X11 clients over wayland, or X11 clients over windows?
09:44:06 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, that reminds me, I have a question about X11
09:44:38 <fizzie> lifthrasiir: I don't think so.
09:45:34 <lifthrasiir> fizzie: I think ZIP appended to other binaries can work without central records at the very end of file for that reason
09:46:50 <fizzie> "Tools that correctly read .ZIP archives must scan for the end of central directory record signature, and then, as appropriate, the other, indicated, central directory records. They must not scan for entries from the top of the ZIP file, because only the central directory specifies where a file chunk starts. Scanning could lead to false positives, as the format does not forbid other data to be ...
09:46:56 <fizzie> ... between chunks, nor file data streams from containing such signatures."
09:47:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: what's wrong with both wayland and X? it took a few decades, but now people really run entire linux computers with no termcap support (neither the library-level compatibility layer nor the actual TERMCAP env var for statically linked programs), without a.out (ancient-libc) support, and even without x86_32 libc support.
09:47:30 <fizzie> But I don't think that's necessary for the self-extracting functionality, since the directory *is* at the end.
09:47:39 <b_jonas> I will probably run X11 forever, but the sort of people with their fancy "desktop environments" will probably be running all-wayland in a decade.
09:48:28 <zzo38> Some programs such as Xaw could be ported to X12 however.
09:50:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: anyway, some people try to claim that traditional X11 is "unsecure" because any program with access to the display can steal the images and keyboard input and whatnot from all other windows; and they try to show their fancy modified X11 server or proxy or whatever it is showing that the same exploit doesn't work there. But I don't believe what they say:
09:50:26 <zzo38> I would rather to design and then switch to X12, and failing that use X11.
09:51:24 <b_jonas> If those people want these crazy transparent borderless menu overlay windows that they already use in X11, then how could a user ever be sure which window is where and which window they're typing to? They might not even know where the mouse cursor is. I just don't understand how any such system could be secure,
09:52:18 <b_jonas> short of having a trusted vnc server whose head is shown entirely in a window that can't capture the mouse or keyboard events and has a distinctive border and can't draw outside, which IS what I want for this kind of security, but it doesn't appear to be what they're after.
09:52:29 <b_jonas> Does what these people say against traditional X11 even make sense?
09:53:01 <b_jonas> (Also they try to sell this as if it was some sort of sensational new exploit, but whatever.)
09:53:38 <zzo38> It would be better to use different screens for different security contexts when it is necessary to do so probably. Although a X proxy could be made to do what you say. X11 is not designed for this but could be done; X12 has some things that would make such a proxy less messy.
09:54:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, exactly. I'd like to run three local X servers this way, and I hope I can show the contents of one in a window of another in a way that's cheaper than vnc through a PF_UNIX socket, but I don't have my hopes high.
09:54:56 <b_jonas> (Three, becase one for sane stuff, one for web browser on untrusted websites, one for skype.)
09:56:22 <zzo38> They could also change the border colours to indicate if the inner security context is active, so that you can detect the keyboard logging and stuff like that. (This way would allow it to work even if the programs are running on different computers.)
09:59:05 <b_jonas> mind you, one thing that makes this sort of thing expensive is that the clients to the restricted X server aren't allowed to know even about paint events or which part of their window is visible, so they must keep rendering the video even when it's actually covered on my screen entirely
10:00:17 <zzo38> By setting the permission of different connections in the UNIX system, there can be the security between the different security contexts. For example implement a kind of "securex" command perhaps, that will set the DISPLAY variable and then run the program so that it cannot access the main X server connection.
10:00:41 <hppavilion[1]> Now that I think about it... wizards being willing to eat all of the weird candy that there is in Harry Potter makes them seem either fetishistic or sociopathic
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10:08:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, I can already make it so that a program can't access the main X server connection.
10:09:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: run it as a different user, don't tell Xauthority to that user
10:09:28 <b_jonas> that's the default with mutliple users, I have to give Xauthority explicitly
10:12:49 <\oren\> Yay, new version of my font!
10:12:51 <\oren\> ❶❷❸❹❺❻❼❽❾❿①②③④⑤⑥⑦⑧⑨⑩⑪⑫⑬⑭⑮⑯⑰⑱⑲⑳⑴⑵⑶⑷⑸⑹⑺⑻⑼⑽⑾⑿⒀⒁⒂⒃⒄⒅⒆⒇⒈⒉⒊⒋⒌⒍
10:12:54 <\oren\> ⒎⒏⒐⒑⒒⒓⒔⒕⒖⒗⒘⒙⒚⒛⒜⒝⒞⒟⒠⒡⒢⒣⒤⒥⒦⒧⒨⒩⒪⒫⒬⒭⒮⒯⒰⒱⒲⒳⒴⒵ⒶⒷⒸⒹⒺⒻⒼⒽⒾⒿⓀⓁⓂⓃⓄⓅⓆⓇⓈⓉⓊⓋⓌⓍ
10:12:58 <\oren\> ⓎⓏⓐⓑⓒⓓⓔⓕⓖⓗⓘⓙⓚⓛⓜⓝⓞⓟⓠⓡⓢⓣⓤⓥⓦⓧⓨⓩ⓪⓫⓬⓭⓮⓯⓰⓱⓲⓳⓴⓵⓶⓷⓸⓹⓺⓻⓼⓽⓾⓿
10:13:06 <\oren\> all of those are now supported
10:15:19 <izabera> why do these character even exist
10:15:55 <\oren\> it's probably the fault of the Japanese
10:16:35 <\oren\> They had a huge character set to fill and they made up useless crap to fill it with
10:16:57 <izabera> did they _have_ to fill it?
10:17:14 <\oren\> that's why it's their fault
10:18:05 <\oren\> but hey, now I have like 50 new characters
10:18:13 <izabera> http://cbselementary.wikia.com/wiki/Oren_Watson
10:19:29 <\oren\> I have no relation to that character
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10:19:52 <b_jonas> \oren\: yeah, it even has a few totally made up kanji of which nobody knows the meaning or etymology or pronunciation
10:21:51 <izabera> why is the last line of the math special characters red?
10:22:07 <\oren\> those characters don't actually exist
10:22:23 <\oren\> (in the unicode standard)
10:23:07 <izabera> i don't see much difference between the red chars and their white counterparts
10:23:11 <HackEgo> U+1D504 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A \ UTF-8: f0 9d 94 84 UTF-16BE: d835dd04 Decimal: 𝔄 \ 𝔄 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <font> 0041 \ \ U+1D505 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL B \ UTF-8: f0 9d 94 85 UTF-16BE: d835dd05 Decimal: 𝔅 \ 𝔅 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi
10:23:19 <HackEgo> U+212D BLACK-LETTER CAPITAL C \ UTF-8: e2 84 ad UTF-16BE: 212d Decimal: ℭ \ ℭ \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <font> 0043
10:23:39 <HackEgo> U+1D506 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 94 86 UTF-16BE: d835dd06 Decimal: 𝔆 \ () \ Uppercase: U+1D506 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
10:24:35 <\oren\> they left gaps in the math alphabets for the characters that had already been made elsewhere
10:25:26 <b_jonas> \oren\: why does your fontdemo.htm has no html title?
10:26:37 <b_jonas> ah great, now the font does show up! I think I know which client setting I messed up int he browser.
10:27:06 <b_jonas> hehe, snake fillers as in the XKCD strip, is that new?
10:27:23 <\oren\> not as new as the other stuff but yes
10:29:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: hmm, since you added extra characters for the Verne futhark inscription, maybe you should add the inscription as one of the samples
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10:29:45 <b_jonas> to show how those characters are to be used
10:31:55 <b_jonas> And I still think that third character form the Commodore 64 extensions is just a black club card suit symbol, not an extension, since the character set has symbols for the other three suits.
10:32:41 <\oren\> well it's a weird looking club suit with a hole in the middle...
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10:35:21 <b_jonas> \oren: it's this style of the club suit symbol in low res: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Atlas_deck_4_of_clubs.svg
10:35:28 <b_jonas> not the most common variant, but I don't think it's weird
10:37:00 <Melvar> In German, the suit of clubs is called by the word for “cross”.
10:38:50 <b_jonas> \oren\: is the snake filler extension missing from the character listing in the demo page?
10:40:27 <\oren\> oh. uh... you saw nothing!
10:41:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, aren't these "Powerline" thingy characters new enough to be yellow?
10:42:36 <\oren\> not really I think I added them a few months ago
10:48:14 <Melvar> b_jonas: Btw re X server, does Xnest not do what you want?
11:26:41 <b_jonas> Melvar: I don't know what Xnest is
11:33:20 <Melvar> Xnest is a program which acts as an X client to an ordinary X server, and as an X server to its own clients. An X nested inside X. I’m not sure in how far it might fulfil your security stipulations though.
11:34:24 <b_jonas> Melvar: I see, I'll have to examine that
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11:35:11 <b_jonas> Melvar: I knew there were some two other headless X servers apart from vnc derivatives (and there's too many versions of vnc stuff really), but one of them is Xvfb which is truly blind in that you can't view the display at all,
11:35:19 <b_jonas> and I don't recall the other.
11:35:42 <b_jonas> Note that the truly blind one is still useful for some stupid scripts that need to access X but don't actually need user input or output.
11:35:55 <Melvar> Xnest is not headless, if I understand that term properly: It creates a window which acts as the root window of the nested X server.
11:35:56 <b_jonas> Or for eg. some automated testing.
11:36:11 <b_jonas> I should try to remember that name and read about it.
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11:38:54 <HackEgo> Cinder Pyromancer \ 2R \ Creature -- Elemental Shaman \ 0/1 \ {T}: Cinder Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target player. \ Whenever you cast a red spell, you may untap Cinder Pyromancer. \ EVE-C, PD2-C
11:38:56 <HackEgo> Fires of Yavimaya \ 1RG \ Enchantment \ Creatures you control have haste. \ Sacrifice Fires of Yavimaya: Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. \ IN-U, HOP-U, ARC-U, PC2-U, C13-U, CNS-U, VMA-U, DDL-U
11:39:50 <fizzie> Fun fact: you can peek at the Xvfb framebuffer by adding a -fbdir argument. (It will make one xwd file there for each screen, and then mmap the framebuffer memory from there.)
11:41:23 <fizzie> And the other Xnest-like thing is called Xephyr.
11:41:38 <b_jonas> fizzie: nice, thanks for both of those info
11:41:43 <b_jonas> I will probably promptly forget that
11:41:46 <fizzie> (I think it mostly does more modern X extensions than Xnest, or some-such.)
11:41:57 <b_jonas> maybe we should make a list in some wisdom entry or something
11:42:32 <Melvar> “Think Xnest but with support for modern extensions like composite, damage and randr.” says man Xephyr.
11:43:12 <b_jonas> Melvar: ok, I'll have to check both of those then
11:44:44 <Melvar> It goes on to explain that Xnest is a proxy limited to the capabilities of the host server, whereas Xephyr does its own processing and merely draws an image for the host server.
11:45:50 <fizzie> Apparently there were also plans for a "xf86-video-nested" video driver to run a "regular" X server using a X window as the video output, but that seems to have gone nowhere.
11:46:21 <fizzie> https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/7.8/ "TODO -- These have been discussed, but are not yet integrated to the source repos, and may or may not happen -- Replace Xephyr, Xvfb, Xnest, Xfake, etc. with Xorg using xf86-video-dummy and xf86-video-nested".
11:46:29 <b_jonas> Melvar: meh, when a software documentation says "this software is like foo but better" then I NEVER believe anything it says about foo, because it usually compares itself with some ancient version of foo and the docs is never updated to tell that foo is already better and knows all that's listed there.
11:47:06 <b_jonas> Although in the case of an old X11 utility, there's less chance for this, I'll still have to examine Xnest on its own first, rather than trying to gleam information about it from the Xephyr docs.
11:50:44 <Melvar> man Xnest suggests to me that it is in fact a thinner proxy than Xephyr, at any rate. Less like Xephyr is better than it serves a different purpose.
11:54:24 <Melvar> Though I might be wrong since I’m not sure what the respective purposes are supposed to be.
11:56:55 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm
11:59:22 <Melvar> \oren\: What is the first part?
12:02:23 <\oren\> The encrypted version from the book
12:02:32 <\oren\> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18857/18857-h/18857-h.htm#CHAPTER_3
12:04:13 <Melvar> Ah. It’s been so long since I read the book that I didn’t remember it was encrypted … also then does it make sense to display the decrypted version in runes?
12:13:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 211100Z 27010G16KT 30SM FEW180 FEW240 19/09 A2973 RMK AC1CI1 AC TR CI TR SLP070 DENSITY ALT 700FT
12:15:13 <Melvar> I was confused about the correspondence for a bit due to a single rune being transcribed as “mm”.
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12:23:52 <HackEgo> [U+16C9 RUNIC LETTER ALGIZ EOLHX] [U+16D8 RUNIC LETTER LONG-BRANCH-MADR M]
12:24:25 <Melvar> \oren\: It kinda looks like you used the former of these two, where the latter was meant. ↑
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12:28:48 <b_jonas> Melvar: yes, it does make sense to display the decrypted version in runes,
12:30:05 <b_jonas> Melvar: except that there are two or three typos that are in the encrypted rune version but NOT in the encrypted latin script version, and so those typos are certainly made by Verne, not by Professor Lindenbrock or Axel (who couldn't magically undo the typos before knowing the decryption).
12:31:13 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿg
12:31:38 <b_jonas> ``` < wisdom/ᛁ* perl -e 'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,300'
12:31:39 <HackEgo> âá¦á
á´á
á¿áá¦á¢á ááááá¿gá
á. á´á®á¦ á á
á´á. áá¦á¿á
ááá´á¿á¢ááá
á¯
12:32:07 <b_jonas> Melvar, \oren\ ^^^ that's the decrypted inscription with the two typos that perhaps shoudln't be there, and possibly errors I myself introduced
12:32:32 <b_jonas> but there are lots of runes of which I'm not sure of the unicode encoding, see the details back in the channel logs
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12:41:17 <Melvar> Well, there’s the matter of that double-m bind rune. Perhaps it should be MAÐR + ZWJ + MAÐR.
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12:42:20 <Melvar> Is it just me or did HackEgo output mojibake?
12:42:39 <b_jonas> Melvar: I don't think so. futhark runes (as opposed to old hungarian runes) don't usually have ligatures, the MM rune is a new separate character on its own right
12:44:35 <b_jonas> Melvar: sorry, I did a substr such that it cut in the middle of a character in the utf8
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12:44:46 <b_jonas> ``` < wisdom/ᛁ* perl -e 'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,299'
12:44:48 <HackEgo> ᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿgᛅᛋ. ᚴᚮᚦ ᚠᛅᚴᛁ. ᛆᛦᚿᛅ ᛋᛆᚴᚿᚢᛋᛋᛅᛯ
12:45:08 <b_jonas> that's the second half of the inscription, the first half should be fine above
12:45:15 <b_jonas> ``` < wisdom/ᛁ* # first half
12:45:21 <Melvar> Yes. Except I don’t know why the g is in there.
12:45:22 <b_jonas> ``` cat wisdom/ᛁ* # first half
12:45:23 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿg
12:45:40 <b_jonas> Melvar: the g is there because I didn't know how to encode it in unicode
12:46:03 <b_jonas> Melvar: I also don't know how to encode the "d" rune, but I used the "th" rune which is at least superficially similar and possibly related to it
12:46:25 <Melvar> “They are extremely rare in Viking Age inscriptions, but are common in earlier (Proto-Norse) and later (medieval) inscriptions.” — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bind_rune
12:47:07 <b_jonas> Melvar: but still, the text explicitly calls out for a double-m rune
12:47:15 <b_jonas> (it's also in the channel log)
12:49:14 <HackEgo> [U+16EF RUNIC TVIMADUR SYMBOL]
12:49:16 <b_jonas> Melvar: https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Voyage_au_centre_de_la_Terre/Chapitre_3 "En effet, la première lettre est une double M qu’on chercherait vainement dans le livre de Turleson [the book in which the parchment with the message was hidden], car elle ne fut ajoutée à l’alphabet islandais qu’au quatorzième siècle."
12:50:03 <Melvar> Yes, and apparently the message was written by a sixteenth-century alchemist, so that would make sense.
12:50:23 <Melvar> The book itself being far older, of course.
12:51:40 <Melvar> The one you used is said to be used as a calendar symbol only, but the name certainly looks like it was constructed as a double-M.
12:51:51 <b_jonas> Melvar: anyway, the other problems with encoding include the two different variants of the C rune (used for c, k, q in the text), the two different variants of the A rune, and more.
12:52:09 <b_jonas> Also some stuff about capital letters looks strange.
12:52:20 <b_jonas> And, I dunno what else, you'd have to search the channel logs
12:52:47 <Melvar> Yeah, the capitals are way strange since I don’t think any runes had a case distinction.
12:54:40 <b_jonas> Melvar: sure, but the alchemist who wrote it in the 12th century was probably familiar with a variant of the latin script that had case distinction, so that part at least isn't too strange.
12:55:21 <b_jonas> FireFly: it's... complicated. It's some made-up version of futhark probably, one Verne figured from incomplete sources, because he didn't know too much about the history of futhark. Or so I gather.
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12:55:41 <Melvar> Ah, it looks like the message has them different in size.
12:55:51 <b_jonas> Melvar: not only different size, but also shape
12:56:10 <b_jonas> Melvar: the capital I rune has serifs, and, wait, there was one with an even more strange difference
12:57:46 <Melvar> Amusing aside: At home I have a thing with something that’s described as “an actual bookstaff”, this being a rod of beech-wood with runes carved into it.
12:58:09 <b_jonas> FireFly: what? serifs on runes make sense. runes have their shape because they were carved in wood, but later runes also got carved to stone, and in stone the serifs help
12:59:19 <b_jonas> Melvar: look at the A at the start of Arne, that one has a different shape from the normal A apparently
12:59:23 <FireFly> I guess? But I've never seen any serifs on runes carved in stones
12:59:39 <b_jonas> although the difference is probably only that it's a seriffed variant
12:59:41 <FireFly> the idea to put serifs on runes never occurred to me
12:59:54 <b_jonas> FireFly: wait, are you some sort of rune carver or something?
13:00:13 <b_jonas> with like chisels in your pocket
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13:01:30 <b_jonas> I mean, this is #esoteric, I brought the inscription in here because I fully expected that there will be at least people more familiar with futhark and/or unicode and/or futhark's unicode encoding than me.
13:01:46 <b_jonas> So I wouldn't be too surprised to find people with chisels too.
13:01:56 <FireFly> Oh sure. hence prodding nortti above. He's the residentt rune expert as far as I know
13:03:35 <FireFly> I only know how to read younger futhark
13:04:18 <Phantom_Hoover> cuneiform has serif-like marks on the strokes but that's because it's written on soft clay
13:04:45 <FireFly> It's also not exactly carved, is it?
13:04:55 <FireFly> More molded, except I'm not sure if that is the right term
13:05:40 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, it's on paper or parchment or something, maybe with ink... I don't recall what the text says
13:06:18 <FireFly> I should read that book anyawy, regardless of inscriptions
13:06:20 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, the verne one
13:06:38 <b_jonas> Btw, there are two scanned copies of probably the same original image, a better one on fr.wikisource, and a worse one (higher res but black and white) in an English translation of a book
13:10:24 <Melvar> FireFly: Impressed is what I have heard it called what cuneiform is.
13:12:37 <Melvar> You specifically don’t want to remove any clay from the original glob, because that would just be a terrible mess to clean up.
13:16:11 <oerjan> `learn Cuneiform is the most impressive writing system.
13:16:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'cuneiform': Cuneiform is the most impressive writing system.
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14:15:34 <izabera> what happened to zfs fuse? http://zfs-fuse.net/
14:20:07 <fizzie> izabera: Too much gambling, maybe.
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15:31:53 <quintopia> that seems like a bug...lambdabot wont tell you you have messages if the only tjing you say is addressed to lambdabot...
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16:30:45 <\oren\> unicode 9.0.0 is being released today by the way
16:31:15 <\oren\> the emoji are now considered wide characters
16:32:44 <\oren\> which will finally fix the problems with emoji in terminals
16:37:35 <\oren\> it also provides some new symbols which ill add tonight
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17:03:11 <b_jonas> "some new symbols which ill add tonight" => huh, what symbols are you talking about here?
17:05:11 <\oren\> the new miscellaneuous technical
17:05:39 <b_jonas> \oren\: why are you interested in those in particular, as opposed to all the old symbols?
17:06:23 <\oren\> because i have virtually the whole miscellaneous tecjnical block covered
17:06:41 <\oren\> it would be nice to cover it completely
17:10:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fractran++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47241&oldid=30212 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* References */
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17:40:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Omam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47242&oldid=47214 * Marinus * (-38) Doesn't belong in category "unusable for programming", it's equivalent to Brainfuck.
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19:03:35 <zzo38> What are the new ones?
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19:24:54 <\oren\> zzo38: the power symbols and the sleep mode symbol
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19:25:32 <moon_> i made hbot a lot less vulnerable to forkbombs, and i finally made it work
19:25:49 <moon_> Forkbombs are no longer bot murdering monsters
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19:29:48 <moon_> i just managed to make hbot no longer vulnerable to forkbombas
19:31:29 <izabera> is there a way to run sql queries on imdb?
19:31:51 <izabera> i need to find a movie and i only know a list of actors in it
19:34:16 <b_jonas> izabera: dunno. I think you can list all movies of one actor, so you can start from that, or maybe ask http://movies.stackexchange.com/ if this is possible, or ask there directly about the movie
19:37:36 <\oren\> i think hound can do that
19:39:13 <izabera> harrison ford, mark hamill and carrie fisher
19:39:48 <b_jonas> I think I also remember people on some forum or irc channel give trivia quiz questions of the form of a movie with multiple actors, so you could try to find such strange people.
19:40:38 <\oren\> return of the jedi and empire strikes back
19:40:41 <b_jonas> izabera: aren't those the top billed actors in _Star Wars: The Force Awakens_?
19:41:08 <izabera> no jk that was an easy one to test you
19:41:19 <izabera> cameron diaz hugh laurie and rowan atkinson
19:41:29 <moon_> scratch what i said
19:41:41 <moon_> the version of nice i have is not very nice about subprocesses
19:41:47 <izabera> looks like googling their names works though
19:42:03 <izabera> moon_: do you even cgroups
19:42:49 <\oren\> hmm the search went through but Hound couldnt find the answer
19:43:46 <\oren\> the guy working on this is a few cubes over ill send him an email
19:43:55 <b_jonas> izabera: does it have to be a movie as opposed to some other genre like a TV series?
19:44:18 <izabera> well i found it and it wasn't cameron diaz but joely richardson <.<
19:44:25 <izabera> blame the crappy youtube video
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19:45:31 <izabera> someone should make a website that does this
19:45:49 <izabera> something like thatmoviewith.xyz
19:46:09 <moon_> iza, im looking into cgroups right now >_>
19:46:22 <izabera> oh there's http://thatmoviewith.com/ and it does that but it's an iphone app
19:48:42 <b_jonas> izabera: movies.stackexchange.com might work in those cases. http://movies.stackexchange.com/q/50236/ is an example for a question like that.
19:49:16 <b_jonas> izabera: "work" in that it is probably not the kind of post they like the most, but it's on-topic and might get an answer
19:50:02 <b_jonas> http://movies.stackexchange.com/q/21758/ is another such question (id question with clips on youtube available)
19:50:29 <b_jonas> If you actually have a clip (on youtube or wherever) from the movie, it's probably a much better question than if you just post a description anyway.
19:51:35 <b_jonas> izabera: sure, btu you said "someone should make a website that does this"
19:51:49 <b_jonas> and movies.stackexchange.com might qualify as such a website
19:51:51 <izabera> i meant in a more automatic way
19:52:41 <b_jonas> why? do you need lower latency because you want to cheat in some sort of game show or other quiz? or more privacy about your question than that website offers?
19:52:57 <izabera> because i like machines more than humans
19:53:49 <b_jonas> izabera: in that case ask the meta question on movies.stackexchange.com , that is, ask how you can do such queries in an automated way
19:54:38 <izabera> top answer will be to write a bot that asks movie.se and then scraps the answers and returns the result
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19:55:32 <\oren\> http://www.imdb.com/search/common
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19:57:43 <\oren\> i hate it when i mispell an abbreviation
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20:00:55 * izabera thought it meant unflexible
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20:04:21 <b_jonas> on the esowiki, do we have a category for array languages, in the sense of eg. any of (APL, matlab, Mathematica, maxima, GAP), in which any of the built-in arithmetical primitives map to arrays of numbers automatically?
20:16:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47243&oldid=43215 * B jonas * (+782) /* Array-based languages */ new section
20:16:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jelly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47244&oldid=46026 * B jonas * (+256)
20:21:27 <HackEgo> olist 1041: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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20:28:06 <b_jonas> ooohh.... so many future plot points!
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20:31:01 <shachaf> Boots of Free Movement, redundant Xs?
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20:31:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, those two, plus Redcloak mentions one of his weaknesses that can be used against his team in a fight later, plus magic belt
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20:34:14 <b_jonas> shachaf: and for the boots, note that Xykon has been in a situation where that would have been useful, in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html first panel. I think. I'm not sure about the rules.
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20:42:05 <b_jonas> quintopia: dunno, try asking in #haskell
20:42:25 <quintopia> could have sworn it was someone who hangs out here
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20:42:59 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
20:43:01 <HackEgo> lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src.
20:43:02 <lambdabot> CYUL 211900Z 24016G22KT 30SM SCT065 SCT240 24/06 A2973 RMK CU3CI1 SLP068 DENSITY ALT 1400FT \ ENVA 211920Z 25008KT 9999 BKN045 13/09 Q1015 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 28011KT \ ESSB 211920Z 20006KT CAVOK 18/13 Q1014 \ KOAK 211853Z 27007KT 10SM FEW200 23/12 A3003 RMK AO2 SLP168 T02330122
20:43:21 <b_jonas> `8-ball Who maintains lambdabot?
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20:45:15 <b_jonas> Cale: quintopia asks who maintains lambdabot, maybe you know the answer
20:45:33 <Cale> I think it's currently int-e
20:45:37 <b_jonas> shachaf: "It was." as in he no longer hangs out here because I sent them away?
20:46:03 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv.
20:46:16 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Rli lambdabot wisdom
20:46:53 <shachaf> b_jonas: It was Cale, and then it was elliott, and then it was int-e.
20:47:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: hmm, did anyone volunteer to maintain geordi yet then?
20:47:34 <HackEgo> wisdom/lambdabot \ wisdom/prefixes \ wisdom/weather \ wisdom/ghci \ wisdom/reflection
20:47:36 <b_jonas> Eelis said he needs a new maintainer
20:48:23 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
20:49:50 <HackEgo> shachaf is a wise little gentleman.
20:50:03 <HackEgo> <Elronnd> learn shachaf is a wise little gentleman. \ <Elronnd> learn shachaf is was little gentleman \ <shachaf> ` cat < wisdom/funpun | cat | rot13 | cat | cat > wisdom/shachaf \ <oerjan> learn_append shachaf The unit of bad punnery is named after him. \ <oerjan> learn_append shachaf He hates bell peppers with a passion. \ <oerjan> revert \ <e
20:50:17 <shachaf> Why did you overwrite my wisdom entry?
20:50:32 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:51:21 <HackEgo> changeset: 8345:7b160701cdf9 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Jun 05 07:03:52 2016 +0000 \ summary: <Elronnd> learn shachaf is a wise little gentleman. \ \ changeset: 8344:dc5988a2985d \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Jun 05 07:03:38 2016 +0000 \ summary: <Elronnd> learn shachaf is was little gentleman \ \ changeset:
20:52:13 <shachaf> Elronnd: And you did it in /msg or something? I don't see it in the logs.
20:54:26 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 8343 wisdom/shachaf > wisdom/shachaf
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20:57:37 <shachaf> `learn Cale is the inventor of the calzone.
20:57:42 <HackEgo> Learned 'cale': Cale is the inventor of the calzone.
20:58:35 <b_jonas> Does wisdom have any symlink to directory (recursively) under it?
20:59:39 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type l \! -xtype f
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21:29:33 <zzo38> What does WM_CLIENT_LEADER mean?
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21:41:55 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/*ccc*
21:41:57 <HackEgo> wisdom/=@ccc wisdom/ioccc wisdom/ioccclist
21:42:15 <int-e> We don't know icccm.
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22:34:22 <zzo38> There is many variant of Crazy Eights card game, I think.
22:40:46 <shachaf> zzo38: Have you invented a card game based on chess?
22:43:20 <zzo38> No, but I think someone else has done
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22:47:36 <HackEgo> The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
22:47:45 <HackEgo> ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news
22:48:29 <shachaf> Did you hear about my dream?
22:48:35 <shachaf> I don't remember the details of it anymore.
22:48:44 <shachaf> But there was a conference about cartesian closed categories called "IOCCC".
22:49:18 <FreeFull> International Obfuscated Cartesian Closed Categories"
22:49:54 <FreeFull> I wonder why it took so long to release the source code after the winners were announced
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23:05:12 <quintopia> shachaf: did you fix your wisdom entry yet
23:05:22 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
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23:06:20 <shachaf> I'm quite irritated that Elronnd edited my wisdom entry in secret.
23:07:50 <Koen_> is the "hates with a passion" thingy a recurrent joke?
23:09:27 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:10:10 <shachaf> I liked the phrase "for his convenience". It's a shame that's gone.
23:10:57 <quintopia> at least "mildly dislikes with a passion" is a proper comedic form
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23:11:30 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a.
23:12:05 <\oren\> aaaaaaaaaaa why does my android have one!
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23:13:08 <\oren\> i didnt notice until now the ugly ugly three storey g and two storey a
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23:31:27 <fizzie> Speaking of typography, I heard TfL (Transport for London) commissioned a new variant of the font the use in the Tube from Monotype, called Johnston100, to replace the old New Johnston.
23:34:05 <shachaf> Multiple people I know are visiting there for a while.
23:34:17 <fizzie> We just moved offices.
23:34:34 <fizzie> I came back from a two-week Finland vacation this Monday, straight to the new place on its first day of business.
23:35:33 <fizzie> http://www.businessinsider.com/googles-new-11-storey-office-in-londons-kings-cross-2016-6
23:36:07 <fizzie> So far it feels much more like a generic corporate office than the previous one -- no quirky quirks of any kind.
23:36:55 <fizzie> But maybe they'll adjust it. Only the top half's done, anyway.
23:37:28 <shachaf> fizzie: Funny, I heard the same thing from the people I worked with about the office they moved to.
23:37:44 <shachaf> (The word "corporate" in particular.)
23:38:24 <fizzie> Maybe they've hired more that kind of people in the REWS organization.
23:38:44 <fizzie> I know the ones in London don't even like our mannequins.
23:39:02 <shachaf> I'm sure whoever is in charge of that organization REWS the day they hired those people.
23:40:11 <fizzie> Our team's got six or so mannequins dressed up in various animal costumes, and grapevine has it all REWS does internally is complain about them. We didn't even dare to let them move that stuff, for fear of it accidentally "getting lost".
23:40:27 <fizzie> AIUI, one of the senior folks now has a car full of body parts as a result.
23:41:11 <fizzie> (I don't know, I was in Finland.)
23:46:20 <shachaf> But what I heard was that the new London office was going to be the best office ever made.
23:46:25 <shachaf> Or is that yet another office?
23:48:10 <fizzie> They still haven't start building that one.
23:48:15 <fizzie> This is just a rented building.
23:49:45 <shachaf> They won't let you have mannequins in the rented office?
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00:00:10 <fizzie> I'm sure they will, but they'd rather we didn't.
00:02:41 <fizzie> I'm not sure. Maybe they've got something against fun? I think fire safety was mentioned as well.
00:02:49 <fizzie> The corridors were getting a bit crowded.
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00:13:47 <shachaf> fizzie: did you recognize any good speeches lately
00:14:38 <shachaf> would you say that synthesis-recognition is a section-retraction pair
00:15:59 <fizzie> I'm not category enough to say such a thing.
00:16:47 <shachaf> it means that one composition of them is the identity
00:17:20 <shachaf> (and the other is idempotent, of course)
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00:18:32 <fizzie> Maybe in some sort of an ideal case, then.
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00:21:20 <boily> does this channel have an ideal? or at least an eigenvalue?
00:21:31 <lambdabot> quintopia said 22h 37m 14s ago: Hope you like dark and malty. You're getting 24floz of barleywine and stout for a grand total of 2.94floz of alcohol.
00:21:51 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! ^_^ <3 <3 <3
00:24:28 -!- augur has joined.
00:39:50 <quintopia> are ideal principles like principal ideals?
00:40:25 <quintopia> boily: nice job spotting that lambdabot bug
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00:51:30 <boily> hellørjan. are you idealistic?
00:53:11 <boily> . o O ( laboilyas??? dequosséque? )
00:53:49 <shachaf> oerjan seems more filteristic to me hth
00:54:12 <shachaf> oerjan: i propose a rule against editing wisdom entries off-channel hth
00:54:36 <oerjan> (tip: this language has a _lot_ of words ending in -as)
00:54:49 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:55:05 <boily> oerjan: lithuanian?
00:55:16 <shachaf> fixed in-channel, mind you
00:56:05 <oerjan> shachaf: well there's a reason i used to read through the recent repository history, before i retired.
00:56:17 <shachaf> oerjan: i thought you unretired
00:56:31 <oerjan> an easy misunderstanding.
00:56:33 <boily> `le/rn dingas/The sound of a Baltic bell. Its chime sounds like potatoes.
00:57:26 <oerjan> huh, dingas seems to be a genuine lithuanian word
00:58:01 <oerjan> assuming google translate can be trusted.
00:58:13 <oerjan> lithuanian: so easy. as long as you ignore the 8 cases.
00:59:13 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
00:59:46 <oerjan> québécois, meanwhile, is completely incomprehensible.
00:59:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. Its chime sounds like potatoes.
01:00:53 <shachaf> It should be an error, shouldn't it?
01:00:57 <oerjan> you mean if it created a file?
01:04:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:04:53 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:05:12 <oerjan> looks like that part works.
01:05:34 <boily> oerjan: eh? of course québécois is grokkable! tsé.
01:06:35 <oerjan> you're biased, indoctrinated and not to be trusted on the subject hth
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01:07:40 <HackEgo> Muddha: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:08:20 <boily> I have to maintain my `relcomeratio :D
01:08:42 <Muddha> whats esoteric programming ?
01:09:12 <boily> oerjan: okay, I *may* be slightly not exactly partial on the matter. but it's easy! drop schwas, unvoice vowels, and apply a good dose of English word order.
01:09:51 <boily> Muddha: programming that explores the limits of the possible, with arts and post-modern creativity.
01:10:01 <boily> oerjan: that's what I meant indeed.
01:10:01 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
01:10:36 <oerjan> boily: does québécois have double negation
01:10:52 <Muddha> so its not a special type of programming that was dubbed esoteric for some reason?
01:10:53 <boily> oerjan: yup! and it's gladly frowned upon by prescriptivists!
01:10:54 <oerjan> not that that would work in that case
01:11:18 <oerjan> Muddha: it's the languages that are esoteric. as in weird.
01:11:27 <zzo38> Muddha: Look at wiki to see its working.
01:11:36 <boily> Muddha: it's more like "fringe" or "frontier" programming.
01:11:48 <Muddha> ah im in the right place then
01:12:19 <Muddha> I'm a newb so take it easy on me
01:12:40 <Muddha> ill be back with questions soon :P hope you guys are willing to help haha
01:13:06 <boily> we like newcomers!
01:13:20 <oerjan> given your username, i was guessing you were looking for more spiritual stuff. which alas is _not_ what this channel is about. usually.
01:13:32 <Muddha> haha no thats my actual nickname
01:13:41 <boily> Muddha: you should take a look at the classics on the wiki: Brainfuck, Befunge, False, Malbolge...
01:14:04 <boily> (and probably Aubergine too, but that one is a shameless plug)
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01:14:25 <zzo38> And also INTERCAL and Special:Random
01:15:25 <shachaf> how do you read "shavention"
01:15:31 <Muddha> I study electrical engineering and so I kinda got twisted with programming along the way im not particularly any good but I've been successfully intrigued
01:16:33 <boily> then I shall ask you the The Question: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
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01:17:05 <Muddha> haha im not sure about either
01:17:05 <oerjan> . o O ( since e's electrical, maybe ask for charge too? )
01:17:13 <Muddha> but i eight somewhere around 70 kgs
01:17:22 <shachaf> oerjan: Are there non-electrical engineers?
01:17:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i think so? they build bridges and stuff...
01:18:11 <boily> he puns! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
01:18:35 <Muddha> no taxes where im from
01:18:36 <boily> Muddha: please be aware that any further pun shall be thwacked by my mapole.
01:19:00 <boily> Muddha: SI units, no taxes... Northern European?
01:19:19 <Muddha> grew up in the middle east
01:19:24 <Muddha> currently in western europe
01:19:27 <oerjan> what about no taxes tells you northern european that makes no sense
01:19:49 <shachaf> every other / bin/ shavention / comes out of the / fourth dimension / life is just / a tanebvention / burma shave
01:19:53 <boily> it does. my deductions are sane!
01:20:28 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:20:28 <Muddha> stope lying to yourself
01:21:04 <zzo38> boily: Are you sure?
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01:22:21 <Muddha> hence the pun oppressing pole
01:22:58 <oerjan> Muddha: do not question boily's sanity. that is not altogether safe hth
01:23:46 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:24:38 <Muddha> anyway guys its nice meeting you
01:24:45 <shachaf> boily: Does ' mean feet or minutes?
01:24:54 <Muddha> once I get my c's down and I move up the programming ladder
01:25:01 <Muddha> I shall be back wanting more
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01:26:31 <boily> shachaf: yes, and I shall correct it.
01:26:54 <boily> `` sed -i 's/'\b/’/' wisdom/mapole
01:26:55 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:27:09 <boily> `` sed -i "s/'\b/’/" wisdom/mapole
01:27:17 <boily> Halifax is far hth.
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01:28:07 <lambdabot> CYHZ 220009Z 21016G22KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC001 15/15 A2971 RMK ST8 SLP065 DENSITY ALT 800FT
01:28:58 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:29:13 <shachaf> boily: Is there a leggy version?
01:29:22 <boily> `` sed -i "s/'/’/" wisdom/mapole
01:29:30 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:29:32 * oerjan gives boily some `sled propaganda. rosebud!
01:29:48 <oerjan> actually, make that `slwd
01:29:53 <boily> shachaf: a leg version of a mapole?
01:30:10 <shachaf> Right. You only specify what the army version includes.
01:30:28 <shachaf> oerjan: slwd is presumably sled for lewd files
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01:31:16 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#lord#lewd#
01:31:39 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:32:03 <shachaf> oerjan: Does "amortized" pop up when you try to remember the word "amortized"?
01:32:22 <oerjan> but more than it used to.
01:32:32 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s# instead##
01:32:35 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:33:38 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/renouned/interjecting/
01:33:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious interjecting cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:34:59 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/interjecting/articled/
01:35:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:35:36 <shachaf> _Maniacs in the Fourth Dimension_ -- by Kilgore Trout
01:35:39 <shachaf> It was about people, whose mental diseases couldn't be treated because the causes of the diseases were all in the fourth dimension, and three-dimensional Earthling doctors couldn't see those causes at all, or even imagine them.
01:35:43 <shachaf> One thing Trout said that Rosewater liked very much was that there really were vampires and were-wolves and goblins and angels and so on, but that they were in the fourth dimension. So was William Blake, Rosewater's favorite poet, according to Trout. So were heaven and hell.
01:36:26 <shachaf> http://kilgoretroutstories.tumblr.com/post/16715820705/the-gospel-from-outer-space-by-kilgore-trout was a very good Kilgore Trout story.
01:37:09 <oerjan> i'm not sure he's my kettle of fish.
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01:39:08 <oerjan> you just need to deduce the ichtymology.
01:39:39 <oerjan> also i probably misused the idiom. otoh i'm not the first to do so.
01:42:20 <oerjan> hm apparently kilgore trout is itself a pun.
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02:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> Conspiracy Theory Time: The Apollo 11 moon landings were faked
02:08:55 <hppavilion[1]> They actually pulled if off on Apollo 8, but /somebody/ didn't understand how to use a video camera
02:09:55 <HackEgo> [U+2460 CIRCLED DIGIT ONE]
02:10:19 <HackEgo> [U+24F5 DOUBLE CIRCLED DIGIT ONE]
02:10:44 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: So you can't get a 1 into a single circle- thus why you made it 7sd instead- but it will fit into a double circle?
02:10:58 <boily> all conspiracies exist.
02:11:29 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any conspiracy theories involving the Unicode Consortium
02:12:57 <boily> there are some heated flame wars about Han Unification...
02:20:31 <hppavilion[1]> My favorite word that I invented is 'hyperthesis', mostly because it's actually useful
02:21:15 * boily is startled by cats
02:21:41 <boily> I don't think there are actual unicodal conspiracies...
02:27:48 * oerjan wonders if the MiD's umbrella also prevents him from leaving footprints or if that's a power he has
02:30:49 <oerjan> also i'm wondering if he's going to die heroically without ever showing himself
02:31:34 <boily> bringing with his ultimate demise the secret of V's true gender?
02:32:12 <shachaf> I saw a puzzle: An airplane has 100 seats, and there are 100 people with assigned seat numbers. One person enters the airplane and sits in a random seat. Then the rest of them enter the the airplane one at a time and try to sit in their assigned seat; if it's taken, they sit in a random free seat instead. What's the probability that the last person will sit in the correct seat?
02:32:30 <boily> oerjan: that's perfectly thausible!
02:33:09 <boily> shachaf: I saw that puzzle. I refuse to aknowledge that puzzle. it is inherently headachy hth
02:33:22 <shachaf> boily: it has a very simple solution hth
02:34:33 <boily> yes. and the result is right. nonetheless, it's a great source of mental dissonance.
02:50:42 <boily> I want to say that there are 99 wrong seats and only 1 right seat, so chances are 1%. but no, 50% is the right result.
02:51:49 <boily> oh well. time to night.
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03:03:25 <oerjan> maybe someone can hack it in.
03:08:25 <oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> AIUI, one of the senior folks now has a car full of body parts as a result. <fizzie> (I don't know, I was in Finland.)
03:08:28 <HackEgo> 1282) <fizzie> AIUI, one of the senior folks now has a car full of body parts as a result. <fizzie> (I don't know, I was in Finland.)
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03:56:54 <quintopia> oerjan: what proportion of norwegians do you think secretly own hookahs?
03:58:44 <oerjan> i'm way too out of the loop to guess.
04:01:22 <quintopia> stands to reason, what with being prehadeon and all
04:09:35 <quintopia> what's the best example of a programming language where every string constructed from valid tokens is a valid program and none of the tokens are NOPs
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04:10:44 <quintopia> is there a non-esoteric such thing?
04:11:53 <oerjan> pretty sure APL has some syntax, like parentheses
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04:12:54 <oerjan> (also it has operators but not precedence)
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04:14:38 <quintopia> "problem" and "program" have very similar movements of fingers on a keyboard
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04:23:44 <izabera> what does 'setting a breakpoint' do in gdb?
04:24:04 <izabera> how do i do that without a debugger?
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04:24:45 <izabera> like, can a program set a breakpoint in itself while it's running?
04:26:04 <hppavilion[1]> http://notevendoommusic.com/ is still the greatest thing ever
04:26:16 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Yes, but it's a mortal sin and it will avoid it at all costs
04:27:05 <quintopia> izabera: this is a thing i do regularly with pdb
04:27:43 <quintopia> but i never considered doing it with gdb. i assumed breakpoints were things tracked by gdb, not the program
04:28:16 <izabera> so you're saying it requires actual work from the debugger
04:29:02 <izabera> i was hoping it was some magic assembly instruction that took a memory address and something and it signaled you when you access it
04:32:03 <shachaf> Are you talking about a breakpoint or a "watchpoint"?
04:33:54 <shachaf> On x86 gdb implements breakpoints by replacing the first byte of an instruction with int3, 0xcc.
04:34:45 <lambdabot> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Set-Watchpoints.html
04:35:33 <izabera> i don't see that being documented there
04:36:22 <shachaf> That page is about watchpoints, not breakpoints.
04:37:23 <lambdabot> http://www.unknownroad.com/rtfm/gdbtut/gdbbreak.html
04:37:23 <lambdabot> Title: RMS's gdb Tutorial: How do I use breakpoints?
04:37:51 <izabera> i don't see that being documented there
04:38:14 <izabera> in my defense it wasn't in the first handful of google results
04:43:02 <hppavilion[1]> Have you ever seen a GIF of popcorn popping? The physics obviously don't add up
04:44:53 <zzo38> No I have not seen a GIF of popcorn popping, but I have seen real popcorn and have the device used to heat them.
04:52:47 <hppavilion[1]> http://thechive.com/2015/12/15/some-satisfying-gifs-to-start-your-morning-17-gifs/ is... evil
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05:17:21 <Etaoin> Is the wiki still alive? Is this irc alive?
05:17:53 <pikhq> It's a bit of a slow period for the channel, but yes on both counts.
05:19:07 <Etaoin> Phew thank jesus. I've been silently marvelling at the wiki for well over a year now, only now decided to check if the community is still active, glad to know It is!
05:20:27 <pikhq> Today's logs are about 62k, to give you an idea.
05:21:07 <Etaoin> 6 am here so I'll go to bed now and rest peacefully 😃
05:21:36 <Etaoin> That doesn't sound bad at all
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05:28:08 <lifthrasiir> now we can use all sort of esoteric characters for Zalgo
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05:59:27 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'm going to show my mother some /r/reverseanimalrescue gifs
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06:33:01 <quintopia> it just occurred to me that in just 5 more years i will have spent half my life as an esolanger...as much time as any other hobby except fiction
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08:18:35 <hppavilion[2]> For some reason, there are some parts of the world where it is illegal to have a pet hedgehog. Monsters.
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08:50:42 <Destructible> I had a pretty good idea for an esolang, I think
08:50:56 <shachaf> copumpkin: that book was released hth
08:51:37 <shachaf> copumpkin: i'll send you a copy if you like
08:51:49 <shachaf> assuming there's a way to do that. i don't know.
08:54:38 <hppavilion[2]> They'll often be diagnosed with PTSD- "Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder"
08:54:51 <hppavilion[2]> But with the awful stuff that tends to happen in a warzone
08:55:53 <hppavilion[2]> I think that it'd be more disorderous to be a happy, optimistic family (wo)man after being rescued from an ISIS POW camp moments before your decapitation and moments after your best friends'
08:56:20 <hppavilion[2]> It should be called PTSR- Post Traumatic Stress Rationality
08:56:42 <Destructible> well, really, they are out of danger, so it's not exactly rational.
08:57:53 <Destructible> also, from wikipedia: A mental disorder (also called a mental illness,[1] psychiatric disorder, or psychological disorder) is a diagnosis, most often by a psychiatrist, of a behavioral or mental pattern that may cause suffering or a poor ability to function in life.
09:01:16 <Destructible> Also, I don't think that soldiers that return without ptsd are ok with what went down either.
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11:53:54 <boily> no HackEgo, no fungot... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
11:54:03 <boily> fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!
11:54:17 <boily> and Gregor isn't even here to be yelled at!
11:55:44 <fizzie> HackEgo seems to be online, just not on-channel. Even I can fix that.
11:55:46 <shachaf> soon ripe / soon rotten / soon gone / but not fungotten
11:56:07 <shachaf> fizzie: I thought you can fix everything.
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12:00:25 <fungot> boily: it is very annoying to use ssh with x forwarding. need to go to dozomo and learn their names and it doesn't come with the disks? dang.
12:00:35 <HackEgo> adu//Do you know adu? Adu adu adu adu adu!
12:02:24 <int-e> fungot: you should be using something else, like xpra or vncserver + vncviewer -via
12:02:24 <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:02:34 <int-e> (it's funny when fungot makes sense)
12:02:34 <fungot> int-e: esperanto was designed but elitist linguists more interested in pragmatics. ( pragmatic beauty would be a double as x86_64 use sse instead of the more " advanced"
12:03:14 <int-e> actually that was quite insulting, I think.
12:03:28 <boily> fungot: stop making sense. you're not sentient.
12:03:28 <fungot> boily: this one, yome! stay good! ( except that the is an operation
12:03:38 <boily> fungot: and balance your parentheses. ))
12:03:39 <fungot> boily: ( since ( cons x lst) in terms of y ( not the ( eq? ( 200 0.)) be false? i just have issues with a type-system question? we're evaluating everything in the top
12:12:15 <int-e> `addquote <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:12:15 <fungot> int-e: sarahbot is a surprisingly good conversationalist. -g
12:12:28 <HackEgo> 1283) <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:12:58 <int-e> (I don't particularly like that it said that to me, but if it had been anybody else I would have added it as a quote as well)
12:13:18 <shachaf> fungot: say something quoteworthy to me twh
12:13:18 <fungot> shachaf: darcs repository tomorrow. ( shame on me for not noticing.
12:13:24 <fungot> shachaf: what is dynamic-wind?? :p
12:15:19 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Wed Jun 22 04:15:16 2016
12:15:46 <shachaf> guess what: i'm going to be miserable and unproductive tomorrow, just like every day for the past couple of weeks
12:19:04 <boily> quintopia: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
12:19:12 <boily> what the morning are you doing here?
12:19:25 <boily> you're offtimezone!
12:19:30 <boily> no, just having breakfast.
12:21:15 <boily> we shall ask an impartial umpire, but later. I'm translating to a shower, then off to work.
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12:22:06 <Cale> `? dynamic-wind
12:22:31 <Koen_> well static wind would be just air?
12:25:07 <Cale> `learn dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind.
12:25:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'dynamic-wind': dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind.
12:25:29 <Cale> `learn static-wind is just air.
12:25:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'static-wind': static-wind is just air.
12:28:17 <shachaf> If dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind, what's dynamic-unwind?
12:29:28 <int-e> did I miss anything important?
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12:33:55 <quintopia> int-e: i just wanted to confirm a possible bug in lambdabot
12:35:13 <quintopia> will lambdabot only send you message notifications if you send messages to a channel that _arent_ commands for lambdabot?
12:39:27 <Cale> `learn dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather.
12:40:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'dynamic-unwind': dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather.
12:41:39 <int-e> quintopia: possible... hmm
12:42:06 <b_jonas> `learn brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
12:42:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'brexit': brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
12:45:49 <int-e> quintopia: it's not easy to fix... it really happens by design. lambdabot processes commands (which are prefixed by @ and friends) differently from "contextual" messages, and the notification happens in a contextual message handler
12:55:28 <int-e> quintopia: and by "not easy to fix" I really mean it's easy to process all messages as contextual messages but it's hard to figure out what kind of unintended side effects that would have. for example, it would be inappropriate to say that you have new messages when your command is @messages...
12:59:04 <quintopia> this is a problem i anticipated. but it remains that it is poor design since it can result in messages not being received or being delayed
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13:00:10 <Koen_> well, surely someone would say "hi" before sending commands to lambdabot
13:00:31 <Koen_> unless they're only passing by to get their messages, in which case the command would be @message and everything would be fine
13:02:26 <quintopia> they may be passing by to get the weather
13:04:46 <\oren\> Ok, so the next version will include 23fb to 23fe
13:04:58 <quintopia> i feel like checking for messages should be a followup action to processing any message. if its a command, notify can be PM'd, unless its @messages in which case the flag will be cleared by the time the check happens
13:11:23 <int-e> Koen_: #haskell is too big for everybody saying hello
13:14:57 <hppavilion[2]> Huh, if you add a + after a bitly link it'll tell you where it goes (and other data)
13:17:34 <quintopia> sounds like you hang out in the wrong places
13:19:10 <HackEgo> nothing//Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
13:19:19 <b_jonas> Koen_: you can say hi in the same line as some lambdabot command
13:19:27 <\oren\> quintopia: nah, sounds like he hangs out the places I used to post when I was 15
13:20:04 <b_jonas> @eval {- hello. why does this go into an infinite loop? I don't understand -} let { f x + 1 = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:20:38 <Koen_> @messages hi, b_jonas
13:21:22 <b_jonas> @eval var "does this work?"
13:21:38 <b_jonas> is the command even called @eval ?
13:21:39 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:22:12 <b_jonas> \oren\: no, it's probably wrong syntax
13:22:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: it shoudl be f (x + 1) instead of f x + 1
13:22:32 <int-e> b_jonas: you mean @run
13:22:36 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:22:43 <b_jonas> @run var "does this work (try 2)?
13:22:44 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
13:22:46 <b_jonas> @run var "does this work (try 3)?"
13:22:59 <b_jonas> @run {- hello. why does this go into an infinite loop? I don't understand -} let { f x + 1 = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:23:01 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:79: Parse error in pattern: f
13:23:09 <b_jonas> @run let { f (x + 1) = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:23:10 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:10: Parse error in pattern: x + 1
13:23:30 <int-e> no, I'm not enabling NPlusKPatterns
13:23:49 <\oren\> f(x) = (x-1) * f(x-1)?
13:24:18 <int-e> but indeed it shouldn't produce an infinite loop
13:24:41 <\oren\> that would end with 0 because haskell is lazy correct?
13:24:49 <int-e> *** Exception: <interactive>:3:5-23: Non-exhaustive patterns in function f
13:25:11 <int-e> \oren\: nope, the semantics of (x+1) include that x>=0.
13:25:19 <hppavilion[2]> Do you ever see a reference to something funny and guess exactly what it will be without detail?
13:25:29 <hppavilion[2]> For example, the Thoughts and Prayers game- t to think, p to pray
13:25:44 <\oren\> int-e: that is unmathy
13:26:24 <int-e> \oren\: it's mimicing natural numbers; the idea was to allow primitive recursive definitions like f (n+1) = n * f n; f 0 = 1
13:26:52 <int-e> but to my mind there is no good use for these patterns except for code golfing.
13:27:12 <\oren\> So it defines that base case how?
13:28:06 <\oren\> like f(x+1) = x+f(x) would want a base case of f(0) = 0
13:29:33 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
13:29:36 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
13:29:37 <fizzie> \oren\: It doesn't define the base case -- hence the "Non-exhaustive patterns" error int-e pasted.
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13:29:54 <lambdabot> eval provides: run let define letlpaste undefine
13:30:04 <lambdabot> ‘text’ (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ),
13:30:27 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
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13:58:57 <\oren\> Hmm apparently there are some graphical glitches causing people to see a mix of the old glyps and new glyphs for the range 2460 to 24FF?
14:03:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: ah, I see you added http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm
14:05:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: you might want to add the crude French translation of the verse as well
14:06:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: does this try to distinguish the two different K runes somehow?
14:08:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: in the cyphered rune version, on the top row second block, you're missing an E rune that is clearly present in the cyphered rune version of the book
14:10:35 <b_jonas> \oren\: and apparently you fixed the typo of s/et terrestra/te terrestra/ in the ciphered rune version
14:11:29 <b_jonas> I mean fixed the typo of s/et terrestre/te terrestre/
14:12:45 <b_jonas> ah yes, you do have two different K runes: and ᚴ
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14:29:36 <FreeFull> > let f x = case x of | 0 -> 0 | _ -> x + f (x-1) in f 10
14:29:37 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:21: parse error on input ‘|’
14:30:06 <FreeFull> > let f x = { case x of 0 -> 0 ; _ -> x + f (x-1) } in f 10
14:30:08 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:11: parse error on input ‘{’
14:30:22 <FreeFull> I don't remember how to write it with the {;} syntax
14:31:16 <FreeFull> > let f x = case x of { 0 -> 0 ; _ -> x + f (x-1) } in f 10
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14:40:43 <FreeFull> Thinking about it, I could have written that without the case
14:41:01 <FreeFull> > let { f 0 = 0; f x = x + f (x-1) } in f 10
14:45:06 <Koen_> > let { f x = x(x+1)/2 } in f 10
14:45:07 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a2 ~ a2 -> a1
14:45:07 <lambdabot> x :: a2 -> a1 (bound at <interactive>:1:9)
14:45:38 <Koen_> > let { f x = x*(x+1)/2 } in f 1à
14:45:42 <Koen_> > let { f x = x*(x+1)/2 } in f 10
14:45:53 <Koen_> now you're just messing with me :(
14:46:08 <Koen_> > let { f x = 55 } in f 10
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15:19:40 <b_jonas> `8-ball HackEgo, are you back now?
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18:38:12 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, did you ever look into how that powder toy computer works?
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19:32:13 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: What poweder toy computer?
19:32:39 <\oren\> someone made a computer in a sand game?
19:35:28 <Phantom_Hoover> no, and having read up on it i just found out that the game in question added this weird undocumented system that turns an existing element into free, instantaneous 30-bit logical operations
19:47:53 <fungot> int-e: no fancy quit message? :)
19:48:25 <int-e> `learn pico is the useless twin of nano.
19:48:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'pico': pico is the useless twin of nano.
19:48:56 <int-e> (opinionated version: `learn pico is the even more useless twin of nano.)
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20:11:32 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: alias: not found
20:11:40 <\oren\> omg hackego already unloaded
20:14:53 <\oren\> stupid gnu screen doesn't support astral characters
20:21:33 <HackEgo> 945) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, the lib dems
20:22:54 <fizzie> I was sure screen was still entirely restricted to the BMP, but it seems to somewhat work.
20:23:21 <shachaf> Maybe I should try screen again.
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20:23:34 <fizzie> Well, I put U+2F85E in a file, and cat it out, and it shows up both inside and outside screen.
20:24:24 <fizzie> (Though of the terminals I happen to have installed, it only appears to work in stterm; it doesn't render in rxvt-unicode or lxterm.)
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20:30:22 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, it doesn't work in "screen 4.01.00devel (GNU) 2-May-06" but it does work in "screen 4.02.01 (GNU) 28-Apr-14" and "screen 4.03.01 (GNU) 28-Jun-15".
20:30:32 <fizzie> Though the screen ChangeLog doesn't mention anything that sounds relevant.
20:31:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is U+2F85E
20:32:07 <fizzie> Just a random non-BMP character (CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH-2F85E) from one of the many "astral characters don't work in screen" bugreports that I apparently have a font for.
20:32:41 <Vorpal> I need to get an SSD for my desktop. It feel soooo slow now, even with fast RAIDed spinning disks. Now that I'm used to SSDs in every other computer
20:33:35 <Vorpal> Especially the work laptop. Two large and fast SSDs in that one. Also a beast computer in other aspects too
20:34:48 <HackEgo> Vorpal: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:35:02 <shachaf> just get enough RAM that you can put everything in RAM
20:37:21 <Vorpal> shachaf, yeah I guess I need a new mobo then, this only goes up to 32 GB RAM support. And I have 16 GB in it currently
20:37:39 <Vorpal> More realistically I need a new GPU... But waiting for the upcoming generation for that
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21:01:04 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 Java characters \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
21:04:54 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:06:22 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 3 codepoints \ 5 UTF-8 bytes
21:11:37 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 2 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
21:11:43 <fizzie> Yay, four different numbers.
21:13:07 <xfix> `` printf '\xFF' | len
21:13:19 <xfix> `` env printf '\xFF' | len
21:13:45 <xfix> `` len $'\xFF'
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21:14:38 <xfix> `` len $'\U110000'
21:14:45 <xfix> `` len $'\U10FFFF'
21:14:58 <xfix> `` len $'\U1FFFF'
21:15:13 <xfix> `` len $'\U10000'
21:15:15 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 Java characters \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
21:16:03 <fizzie> `` unidecode $'\U1FFFF'
21:16:08 <HackEgo> U+1FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f bf bf UTF-16BE: d83fdfff Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+1FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:16:30 <fizzie> Hm. "UTF-8 not valid" sounds like a strange error in that case.
21:16:58 <xfix> len program expects characters to be part of Unicode, apparently.
21:17:21 <xfix> `` len $'\uE000'
21:17:23 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:17:31 <xfix> U+E000 is a non-character too...
21:17:36 <xfix> ``unicode $'\uE000'
21:17:42 <xfix> `` unicodecode $'\uE000'
21:17:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `unicode: not found
21:17:51 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: unicodecode: command not found
21:17:56 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uE000'
21:18:01 <HackEgo> U+E000 <Private Use, First> \ UTF-8: ee 80 80 UTF-16BE: e000 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:18:36 <xfix> There are 66 non-characters in Unicode.
21:18:42 <fizzie> `` unidecode $'\uf000'
21:18:45 <HackEgo> U+F000 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef 80 80 UTF-16BE: f000 Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+F000 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:18:52 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:19:19 <xfix> U+FDD0..U+FDEF, U+FFFE, U+FFFF, and the last two code points of each of the 16 supplementary planes.
21:19:58 <fizzie> (Those two are different for unidecode, because the first and last private-use characters actually have an entry in UnicodeData, while the rest don't.)
21:20:22 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFFFE'
21:20:27 <HackEgo> U+FFFE - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf be UTF-16BE: fffe Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFE \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:20:28 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFFFF'
21:20:31 <HackEgo> U+FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf bf UTF-16BE: ffff Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:20:38 <xfix> `` len $'\uFFFF'
21:20:54 <xfix> len rejects non-characters, apparently. It's somewhat strict.
21:21:10 <xfix> `` len $'\uFEFF'
21:21:12 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:21:15 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFEFF'
21:21:16 <fizzie> That's reasonable, but calling it "UTF-8 not valid" is a little bit iffy.
21:21:17 <HackEgo> [U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE]
21:21:48 <fizzie> (Since it doesn't differentiate from byte sequences that don't even UTF-8.)
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21:23:07 <xfix> Hm, I guess I could check the error.
21:26:16 <xfix> `` len $'\uD800'
21:26:22 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uD800'
21:26:28 <HackEgo> U+D800 <Non Private Use High Surrogate, First> \ UTF-8: ed a0 80 UTF-16BE: d800 Decimal: � \ � \ Category: Cs (Other, Surrogate) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:26:54 <shachaf> U+D800 is actually not valid, though.
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21:27:49 <xfix> So the possible errors are: not UTF-8, surrogate characters in UTF-8, using non-characters, using characters above U+10FFFF, anything else?
21:28:34 <xfix> UTF-8 parsing errors
21:28:53 <shachaf> What counts as UTF-8 here?
21:29:03 <xfix> Any stream of bytes.
21:29:13 <shachaf> Then how can a stream of bytes be "not UTF-8"?
21:29:39 <xfix> Because it violates UTF-8 standard.
21:29:56 <shachaf> Then I think that error covers everything.
21:30:47 <xfix> I guess if I want to split things, I could specify the following.
21:31:09 <pikhq> Tip, surrogate characters in UTF-8, are not UTF-8.
21:31:46 <xfix> Using invalid UTF-8 bytes, using continuation byte when one wasn't expected, start byte not followed by enough continuation bytes, overlong encoding, characters above U+10FFFF.
21:32:34 <xfix> `` len $'\x80\xAE'
21:32:44 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE'
21:32:46 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:15 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE' | paste
21:33:25 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:44 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:53 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE' |& paste
21:34:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20889
21:34:56 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/1: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `|&' \ /hackenv/bin/1: line 1: `|&\` "$@" | sport'
21:35:27 <\oren\> Why not just use permissive-utf8
21:35:46 <\oren\> (i forgot what it's actually called)
21:36:14 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC' | paste
21:36:19 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC' |& paste
21:36:22 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:36:24 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
21:36:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.518
21:36:49 <\oren\> it's the version of utf-8 where invalid bytes get interpreted as code page 1252
21:36:49 <shachaf> What happened with that sled?
21:36:53 <xfix> `` len $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC'
21:37:50 <shachaf> That's what I get for testing with BSD sed.
21:38:31 <shachaf> oops, that revert reverted the wrong thing
21:38:59 <shachaf> `mkx bin/1//\` "$@" |& sport
21:39:12 <HackEgo> 1/2:Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf
21:39:18 <HackEgo> 2/2:_8_decode(input, errors, True) \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0x80 in position 0: invalid start byte \
21:43:01 <pikhq> \oren\: I've seen a few different names for it.
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22:09:41 <HackEgo> [U+2318 PLACE OF INTEREST SIGN]
22:13:10 <\oren\> also it's the symbol on the command key on stupid apple computers
22:13:34 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
22:14:19 <HackEgo> Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
22:14:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: anagrams: not found
22:16:09 <\oren\> My coverage of techincal symbols is pretty complete
22:16:11 <HackEgo> adventure//You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
22:16:32 <HackEgo> frenemy//Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and king Dee Dee.
22:16:32 <izabera> but most importantly do you have the multiocular o?
22:16:33 <HackEgo> ist//An ist is an incomplete list.
22:16:35 <HackEgo> the u//The U are a very mad people.
22:16:36 <HackEgo> ruby//Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.
22:17:46 <\oren\> you can test by searching http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm
22:17:59 <izabera> i just found out that compose + ? + ! gives ⸘ and compose + ! + ? gives ‽
22:18:07 <\oren\> i don't have ⸘?! weird
22:19:24 <\oren\> I'll fix that in the next version
22:19:49 <izabera> so i just found a bug in your font?
22:20:38 <izabera> and i fixed two bugs in bash? and one in zsh even if someone said it wasn't a bug? and i fixed the s3 authentication @ work?
22:21:54 <\oren\> I wonder if anyone has a ⸎ in their keyboard
22:22:18 <HackEgo> [U+2E0E EDITORIAL CORONIS]
22:22:30 <\oren\> or if any other font decided to draw it in the ancient bird form
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22:33:58 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x1f923 0x1f924
22:37:12 <\oren\> stupid old version of screen
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23:09:30 <hppavilion[2]> Wow. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/polynomial-trading-cards#/
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23:11:31 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ shuf -n 1 share/8ballreplies
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23:15:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/8ballreplies
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23:23:10 <fizzie> `culprits data/8ballreplies
23:23:19 <\oren\> ah the joys of bug reports consisting of a screenshot and "why?"
23:23:22 <fizzie> I don't remember doing that.
23:24:32 <fizzie> Oh, I just mangled it around.
23:25:06 <fizzie> `culprits 8ballreplies
23:25:43 <boily> b_jonas is the root of all things.
23:26:18 <fizzie> I thought it was the cultivation of the person.
23:26:44 * boily mapoles fizzie. 0.99 shachafs.
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00:00:02 <hppavilion[1]> Wow. I can feel the bullshit oozing out of http://www.biscmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Miller2001.pdf
00:00:58 <hppavilion[1]> "This woman broke laws [the examples given are attempted murder and arson], but their husbands had been beating them so we should completely ignore the offense- even if arresting them would be in the interest of public safety"
00:02:04 <hppavilion[1]> When a crime has been committed, determining if it was reasonable is to be deferred to the court- police are not supposed to judge morality in situations where a law has been obviously broken
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00:17:37 <oerjan> whatever else nonsense hagb4rd says, he _is_ right that i check out many newcomers to see if they're him.
00:18:13 <oerjan> perhaps a bit too much. i don't think Etaoin was very likely, anyway.
00:48:06 <quintopia> maybe hagb4rd knows that because he is one of the OLDcomers who has ALWAYS used a different name
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01:00:12 <boily> maybe *I* am hagb4rd!
01:00:16 * boily shudders at the thought
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01:03:07 <quintopia> boily: your secret is safe with no one!
01:03:31 <quintopia> did you ever see that thing: http://www.bouldertherapist.com/html/humor/MentalHealthHumor/panexa/panexa.html
01:04:36 <quintopia> oh...wait...oerjan is hagb4rd! sneaky.
01:16:04 <quintopia> i wonder where boily and oerjan went
01:16:25 <lambdabot> (Integral a, Applicative f, Choice p) => p a (f a) -> p String (f String)
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01:24:45 <boily> quintopia: requinthellopia! I was on the phone with various persons of familial interest.
01:24:51 <boily> `relcome xkapastel
01:24:55 <HackEgo> xkapastel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:25:14 <xkapastel> HackEgo celebrating pride week, i see
01:26:36 <quintopia> you remember back when that whole "official channels get # and unofficial channels get ##" thing was discussed endlessly here? yeah, that would have been a great time to move to #esolang...then there would be no reason for that parenthetical.
01:27:01 <quintopia> anyway, if you don't like rainbows xkapastel
01:27:14 <HackEgo> xkapastel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:27:46 <\oren\> are you watchong the copa america
01:28:29 <quintopia> i am watching this channel and one other
01:29:45 <HackEgo> XkApAsTeL: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: <HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/>. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN EfNeT Or dAlNeT.)
01:32:15 <boily> re PANEXA: I think I'm not a squirrel, so I should be fine.
01:36:36 <quintopia> have you ever seen a pregnant woman? there are side effects for those who are aware of the concept of pregnancy
01:37:21 <boily> solipsism precludes having seen pregnant women hth
01:38:20 <quintopia> it also precludes my existence. do you imagine you (as me) will send you (as you) a package containing something you experience as beer?
01:38:55 <quintopia> i'm trying to figure out what to label it on the customs form
01:39:04 <quintopia> you think they'll let "soda" pass?
01:39:25 <boily> it's carbonated, it's in a bottle, therefore it's a duck.
01:40:19 <quintopia> i don't think the type of container is essential to duckitude
01:40:45 <quintopia> (shipping animals internationally is definitely not allowed though)
01:41:17 <boily> shipping animal products either...
01:41:41 <boily> one day, one day I'll be able to enjoy strömming...
01:43:17 <quintopia> shipping liquids is surely okay though?
01:43:27 <quintopia> i've done it before, but i'm not sure whether i was open about it
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02:04:54 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_planets_of_the_Solar_System#Trans-Neptunian_planets should list "Pluto"
02:06:20 <quintopia> TIL: Gordon Freeman is named for Freeman Dyson
02:09:37 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: Pluto is a real body though
02:10:14 <FreeFull> It was classified as a planet before, now it's classified as a dwarf planet
02:10:25 <FreeFull> Just because its classification changed doens't make it fictional
02:11:20 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: Yes, but it would be fictional to refer to it as a planet
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02:19:02 <shachaf> boily: digital dentistry? you must have thing fingers hth
02:21:04 <oerjan> . o O ( boily is edward scissorhands )
02:25:20 <oerjan> wait, how have i not noticed that intensional and intentional are different words
02:25:40 <oerjan> ...i suppose they would be identical in norwegian
02:25:50 <shachaf> wait until you hear about extentional hth
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02:30:50 <oerjan> (assuming you don't know, norwegian tends to convert all the latin suffixes -{s,t,ss}ion into -sjon
02:31:36 <shachaf> oerjan: is that conversion intenssional?
02:32:48 <oerjan> i don't think you can have -ssion except after a vowel, anyway, hth
02:33:09 <oerjan> oh and -xion -> -ksjon
02:33:50 <shachaf> `` grep '[^aeiou]ssion' share/dict-words
02:34:05 <HackEgo> Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:34:31 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#ssion#sjon#
02:34:37 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:35:07 <oerjan> that's indeed a norwegian word.
02:35:41 <oerjan> i think it's rarely used in that context though.
02:37:22 <shachaf> `` grep '[aeiou]ssion' share/dict-words
02:37:25 <HackEgo> Passion \ Passion's \ Passions \ accession \ accession's \ accessioned \ accessioning \ accessions \ admission \ admission's \ admissions \ aggression \ aggression's \ cession \ cession's \ cessions \ commission \ commission's \ commissioned \ commissioner \ commissioner's \ commissioners \ commissioning \ commissions \ compassion \ compassion's \
02:37:31 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#rd#rd commisjoner#
02:37:33 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord commisjoner emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:37:44 <oerjan> hate something with a passion ~ hate noe intenst, i think.
02:38:10 <shachaf> presumably "noe" is "noel" spelled with no el
02:38:45 <oerjan> commissioner = kommisjonær hth
02:39:01 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#commisjoner#kommisjonær#
02:39:05 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:39:06 <oerjan> or the norwegian word for something
02:39:24 <shachaf> i thought you new norwegian
02:41:33 <oerjan> or possibly "kommisær". "There is some confusion between commissioners and commissaries, because other European languages use the same word for both."
02:43:39 <oerjan> ...what kind of shit wiki setup is norwegian wikipedia using, even search box suggestions don't work.
02:46:00 * oerjan isn't entirely clear on what "commissioner" means, anyhow.
02:50:27 <coppro> a commissary is someone in charge of materiel, iirc
02:50:38 <coppro> whereas a commissioner is someone with a commission
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03:24:22 <\oren\> oerjan: I think of http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar
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03:37:32 <oerjan> hm i think long open reddit tabs leak my cpu...
03:38:39 <\oren\> remeber to pkill -9 chrome regularly
03:40:35 * oerjan refuses to believe \oren\ hasn't noticed my mentions of using IE.
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03:40:48 <oerjan> also, it was enough to force reload the tab.
03:42:04 * oerjan supposes he may have suppressed the knowledge.
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07:15:06 <izabera> how do http servers know when a client finished sending its headers?
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07:18:28 <pikhq> Clients terminate the list of headers with "\r\n\r\n".
07:18:52 <pikhq> (i.e. a blank line after the headers)
07:18:59 <pikhq> Content in the request, if any, follows.
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07:59:21 <hppavilion[1]> If astronomers made a tool for observing the sky at all angles without a large lense, what would it be called?
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08:44:20 <^v> hppavilion[1], multiple cameras?
08:44:55 <^v> a 180 degree lens?
08:44:58 <^v> not impossible
08:45:12 <^v> and doesnt necessarily have to be big
08:45:51 <^v> https://www.amazon.com/180degree-Fisheye-1080p-Angle-Camera/dp/B00LQ854AG
08:46:15 <^v> this can literally look at the sky at all angles and its tiny
08:47:03 <^v> you would be looking at the ground and the sky
08:48:25 <^v> a 180 degree lens captures a single hemisphere, else you would be looking for a sphere camera which would require some pretty high tech optics if your requirement is not to use multiple cameras
08:49:46 <^v> <^v> hppavilion[1], multiple cameras?
08:49:46 <^v> <hppavilion[1]> ^v: *sigh* no
08:50:22 <^v> i was kinda
08:50:35 <^v> i forgot this was #esoteric
08:50:42 <^v> why not "phisheye"
08:51:01 <^v> phish because the question is a trap
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08:54:50 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Your reference to phishing puts you on the FBI watchlist; we'll need to collect a fine
08:57:07 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Please send USD$5,200 to BTC:1JrY2sCDAQuRPdqshZFxfiuQ32Uexmc6so
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08:59:59 <^v> Destructible, hello
09:02:53 <^v> what is it? (i promise i wont steal it)
09:03:08 <^v> i have a pretty original idea for one too, using only ^ and v
09:03:20 <^v> memory struture and commands consist of a binary search tree
09:03:29 <^v> ^ goes up v goes down
09:03:40 <^v> the language is based on my name
09:04:22 <Destructible> so, the main distinguishing feature of this lang is twofold
09:04:59 <Destructible> Variables are functions. Variable/functions are numbers
09:05:43 <Destructible> Variable values cannot be accessed: There are no conditionals, or accessing of values.
09:06:28 <^v> hppavilion[1] is going to copy a brainfuck derivative
09:08:25 <Destructible> so, every program is a base seven number, however it uses specific characters for each digit: +, for example
09:08:58 <Destructible> The reason that it is thought of as a number, is because it can be incremented
09:09:47 <^v> so the recipe for a good esolang is
09:10:00 <^v> unintuitive, but not limiting
09:10:47 <Destructible> Nothing in this language is expressly introduced for difficulty of programming, like intercal's please stuffs, or do, for example.
09:11:14 <^v> well if you make it too easy where is the fin?
09:13:16 <Destructible> This language is one of the most reflective lanugages
09:13:48 <Destructible> Functions are not declared, they are assumed to exist at all times, and are simply modified
09:14:49 <Destructible> Oh, I just had an idea for how to implement a conditional substitution.
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09:38:50 <HackEgo> [U+3370 IDEOGRAPHIC TELEGRAPH SYMBOL FOR HOUR TWENTY-FOUR]
09:42:49 <b_jonas> @tell \oren\ in http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm , in the cyphered version, on the top row second block, you're missing on the top row second block, you're missing
09:44:03 <b_jonas> This channel is silent now because all the Brits are in the voting rooms, right?
09:44:28 <b_jonas> (And a third of the channel is Brittish, the other third is Finnish.)
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10:19:49 <Cale> `? new albumen
10:20:06 <Cale> `thanks thanks
10:20:21 <nortti> `run cat $(which thanks)
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10:20:23 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -CSDA \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
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10:41:26 <HackEgo> file="bin/$1"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
10:42:40 <fungot> Thanks, banks. Thanks.
10:42:48 <fungot> >2,[>,]+15[>+6>+7>+3>+2<4-]>-6.>-.-7.+13.-3.+8.>-.>+2.<5[<]>[.>]>3+2.>.<3.<2[<]>[[-<2+>+>]+<-97[-4[-4[-6[-6[-4[>-<[-]]]]]]]>[[>]>2-11.<3[<]<.>3[.>]>3.>5][-]>]<3[[<]>2[.>]>5.>2]
10:42:52 <shachaf> i was going to use stylist to insult someone by calling them a pig
10:42:57 <shachaf> which i guess is a popular insult
10:43:14 <shachaf> but then i didn't want to insult anyone
10:43:44 <fizzie> All the trains are being wonky. :/
10:44:03 <shachaf> you know who wants to hear about wonky trains
10:44:34 <Taneb> fizzie, yeah, apparently the underground flooded?
10:44:39 <fizzie> "Poor weather in the south of England is causing disruption to South West Trains services. Passengers are advised not to travel."
10:44:58 <fizzie> Taneb: I haven't even gotten that far yet.
10:45:36 <Taneb> Luckily a) I am not planning to travel today, and b) I'm very much not in the south of England
10:46:05 <b_jonas> `8-ball Is the underground flooded?
10:46:10 <b_jonas> `8-ball Have you voted yet?
10:46:11 <shachaf> Except I'm planning to travel to San Francisco today.
10:46:23 <Taneb> shachaf, well, I'm not in the south of England, and you're not in the south of England
10:46:24 <shachaf> fizzie: What kind of flour do I use?
10:46:34 <shachaf> Taneb: let's call the whole thing of
10:46:59 <fizzie> District line from the Wimbledon direction would've been my fallback option for these trains, but apparently that's indeed flooded.
10:47:01 <Taneb> shachaf, I'll call it off when I find someone who says potato like that
10:47:38 <shachaf> b_jonas: What protein content?
10:49:30 <shachaf> «Flours between 90 and 160 W are called "weak flours".»
10:49:38 <shachaf> I never considered the wattage of my flour before.
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10:51:19 <lambdabot> 0. SamB: A way to get multiple results from a google search
10:51:19 <lambdabot> 1. dons: improve formatting of @dict
10:51:19 <lambdabot> 3. lispy: don't let lambdabot's prettyprinter split the sequence @foo across lines
10:51:19 <lambdabot> 4. TheHunter: priviledged users should get priviledged listcommands.
10:55:56 <Cale> ;___; such nostalgia
10:55:59 <int-e> that list must be a decade old
10:56:17 <lambdabot> 6. lispy: haddock gives a link from a type signature to the types. It would be nice if it also let you find functions in the given module that use a type.
10:56:17 <lambdabot> 8. dcoutts: implement @cool list, as a clone of the @todo(-add) commands
10:56:17 <lambdabot> 9. dons: there's some bug in the 'when i left' code of @seen
10:56:46 <lambdabot> unexpected end of input: expecting number, "d" or "("
10:57:24 <Cale> haha, good eye
10:57:34 <int-e> I know the parse error :)
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11:06:51 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist 2016-06-23
11:06:54 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist 2016-06-23: b_jonas
11:13:06 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webcomic. http://www.bardsworth.com/
11:13:27 <hppavilion[1]> I was hoping it was an update notification for h4gb4rd
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11:53:13 <hppavilion[1]> BREAKING: Lazy computer scientists prove that P ≈ NP
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12:01:59 <b_jonas> Is it slightly after 23:00 UTC that the voting stations close and exit poll results will be published?
12:02:10 <fizzie> I thought they weren't doing any exit polls for this.
12:02:47 <boily> hppapproximativellon[1]!
12:03:04 <boily> b_jellonas! which voting stations?
12:03:09 <b_jonas> fizzie: what? why would they ever NOT do exit polls
12:03:11 <fizzie> And I think it's 21:00 UTC? At least it's 22:00 BST, and BST is UTC+1.
12:03:20 <b_jonas> boily: the last ones for the Britain EU referendum today
12:03:33 <b_jonas> oh right, it should be 21:00 UTC
12:03:54 <fizzie> b_jonas: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-exit-poll-who-has-won-remain-leave-brexit-live-updates-a7094886.html "EU referendum: Why is there no exit poll for the vote?"
12:08:06 <boily> if the UK leaves, will Taneb be able to join this chännel?
12:11:00 <Destructible> I think that my new idea for an esolang will be good. Would you like me to describe it?
12:11:11 <b_jonas> That means I'll find out the result tomorrow.
12:11:27 <Yurume_> boily : as long as this channel keeps the strait of Dover
12:12:14 <boily> Yurumello_. that is unconditional. Dover is us!
12:12:18 <boily> Destructible: describe away!
12:12:22 <b_jonas> boily: I think he will be, but he'll have to use a different server. This is *relay* chat, which means there can be a relay link between the EU and UK servers.
12:13:19 <Destructible> My esolang is what I think is a very original idea, or at least a collection of ideas that are a unique collection
12:14:20 <boily> Yurume_: have I ever asked you the The Question?
12:14:22 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any problems that are /literally/ unsolvable on CCs but not on QCs?
12:14:55 <Yurume_> boily : is that The Question?
12:15:20 <Destructible> A program in this esolang consists of a sequence of 7 characters. Other characters are syntax errors. These characters are: [space], |, _, +, -, *, ^, @.
12:16:09 <Destructible> This forms a base seven number. The fact that it is a number is, in fact, relevant (There is a reason that it is a number, compared to other languages)
12:16:14 <boily> Yurume_: no, the The Question is: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
12:16:50 <Yurume_> have I said that I am an alter ego of lifthrasiir?
12:17:41 <b_jonas> Destructible: you realize those are eight characters, right/
12:18:24 <Koen__> do you mean a sequence of characters, where the only legal characters are those seven? or do you mean the program should be seven characters long?
12:18:30 <Destructible> I did it wrong because of the way numbers are represented
12:19:19 <boily> Yurume_: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH!
12:19:34 <Destructible> Space is a nop. this is used as the default values of digits.
12:20:26 <Destructible> | causes all code until the next | to be considered as a function name. This function becomes the active function
12:20:27 <Yurume_> boily : (mobile bouncer to be exact. this nick is also what I use for moznet)
12:21:02 <Yurume_> boily : a mobile bouncer to be exact
12:21:02 <Destructible> Active function simply allows commands that affect the active function to work on it. It does not run the function
12:21:12 <Yurume_> and I use this nick in moznet
12:22:48 <Destructible> _ causes all code until the next _ to be interpreted as a number in base seven . the next command is executed this many times.
12:24:53 <boily> I shall depart in shame and go shower my mind with the cleansing ritual hot water and soap. my ability to distinguish alternative nicks is unacceptable!
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12:25:02 <Destructible> once the current function is done, it will return to the digit that has the same significance as the one the function was called from, in the function it was called from (because functions are layered)
12:26:20 <Koen__> speaking about nicks, the nick Koen is register on freenode
12:26:24 <Koen__> I need to change my name
12:28:16 <Destructible> * turns all code until the next * into a number. It inserts a digit so that it will be this number up in signifcance. example of digit numbers: +<-3 +<-2 +<-1 -<-0
12:29:09 <Destructible> ^ turns all code until the next ^ into a number, and removes the corresponding digit from the actuve function
12:29:23 <Destructible> clarification: * inserts into the active function
12:30:48 <Destructible> 0 = [null] 1 = " " 2 = "+" 3 = "-" 4 = "@" 5 = "|"/"_" 6 = "^"/"*" 7 = "*"/"_" 8 = " " 15 = "+ " 57 = " "
12:30:59 <Destructible> Part of the info is encoded into the amount of digits
12:32:13 <Destructible> I submitted a comic to a site, and they uploaded it! (The community contributes all the comics)
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12:39:28 <Destructible> I just got my comic uploaded to a comic site (where the community contributes)
12:40:01 <hppavilion[1]> Don't you hate it when you watch a video and think "Huh, interesting, I'll have to look into that later"
12:40:11 <hppavilion[1]> And then forget everything but a single detail about the video?
12:40:21 <Etaoin> yeeeaah that sounds nasty
12:42:06 <Etaoin> there's probably another etaoin :(
12:42:22 <Etaoin> I just stole this username for now
12:43:25 <Etaoin> does anyone know of a quantum turing machine programming language? as in something like brainfuck that'd run on a quantum computer/simulator
12:44:02 <Etaoin> nvm I found it https://esolangs.org/wiki/Quantum_brainfuck
12:44:28 <Destructible> The comic site is "Square root of minus garfield". It consists of garfield edits
12:46:16 <b_jonas> Etaoin: note that most esolangs with "quantum" in their name or first paragraph of the description don't actually have anything to do with quantum computing
12:48:14 <Destructible> would you like a link to my comic, that got uploaded?
12:48:59 <b_jonas> Etaoin: quantum is just a popular buzzword that people try to invoke
12:49:16 <Destructible> http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=2590
12:50:21 <Etaoin> these are way too abstract for me :D
12:50:57 <Etaoin> all of them on the website
12:53:03 <Destructible> If they are too abstract, there is always the memes. T̨H̕ey ͡n͢ever ̶go͟ ͘away
12:53:14 <Destructible> T͌͒̆ͤ͜H̴ͭ͂̿̚ȅͨ ̵ͩͩ̈͌̉̔̆m͆̊ͣ̿͒̇ͭėͣ̈́m͢eͭ̽ͧ̏͒͑҉s̓ ̷ͨ͆̿wͣ̃͢i͞l̨ͪ͊́ͥl̷̅̈́̋ ̷n̷ͤ̀͛̒̇̆̅evͣ͛̉͂͏e͐̾rͣ͌͐͆ͫ̄ ̋́͢l͑e̷̅ͯä͆̏͛͞vͫ͗̂̐̚ȅ̃ͣͪ̌̚̚
12:54:16 <Destructible> T͕̫̟̬̠̘ͅh͙͎̹̳͉̘ͯ̊̔̚è̹͓ͩ ̟̞̭͑͌̊̃ͪ͟p̄̈́ͥͥͨͣu̜̬͈̻͇ͥ͌ͅd̲̊̇̾̋͑͘d̻̻͉̱̟̯̜i̸̝̭ͤ̑ͨ͌ͣn̜̗͔̠̂ͦͦͨ͆͛̀g̴͖̠̮͔̭͌̔̂ ̹ͦ́͋͠p̌̄̽̊̽o̶̝̅͋ͮp̤͔͚̥̿ͤͥͫs̹̹̏ ͤ̂ͭ̔̽̽a̻͚͐̄̒ͫ̆r̛͍̭͍̬̖̬̆ͣ̉e̯̩̜̠ Ę̶̸̛̮̦̞͈͚͇̙̤͚̰͉̥͖̔ͥ̀̈͞ͅt̸͐̆ͮ̉̃҉̨̦̜̱̠̮̟̜̳̯̦͎͟ę̴̹͓͕̝̜̖̦͐̍ͭͦ̋͌͑̒͊ͣ͜
12:54:34 <Destructible> TÌÌÍÌÌÍÍ®ÌÍ«ÌÍ¡ÍÍ̵ÍÌ»ÌÌÌHÌÍÍ®ÍÍÍÌÍÍÍ«ÌÌ¿Ìͦͣ̾ÌÌ·ÍÍÌ©Í
Í̩̬ÍÌÌ̲̩̣Í̼ÍÌ̼ÌEÌÌÌÌ
ÌÍ©Í£ÍÍÌÍÍÍͯÌÍÍÌÍÌÍÍ̤̼̯Ì̹ ÌÍͯ̾ͦ̾ͨͥÌÍ¥ÍÍ̢̮̣ÌÍÍPÌÌÍÍͮͥÌÌ̲̹ÌÌ Ì¼ÍÍÌÍÌÌÌ»Í
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̲Ì̪̣Í̬̦̬DͦÍͣͤÌÌÌÍ©ÌÌÌͤͤÍͨͫÌ̸̡̡̬Í̼̻̰̻ÍÌ̤ÍÌ̤̼DÍÌÍ¥ÍÍÌ¿ÌÌÌÌÌÍ̶ÌÍÍ̤Í
Ì«ÌÌÍIÌÍ©ÌͦÌ
12:55:03 <Destructible> T̵̨̈́ͤ́̏́̾̇̚͏̗̠̙̹̖̺͇̮͈̣̠̩̼H̸̷͍̰̣̤̲̩̩̗̗̲̺̬̩̜̟ͯͧ̉̓̔̍̄ͩ͛̑ͣͨ̓͂ͧ́̚͝ͅḛ̴̛̪̭ͬͫ̿ͤ̇͛̂̿̑̾̀̆̄̚̕͟ÿ̵̧̬̫̭́̍̑ͦ̇̾̎͗ͅ ̷̴̱̪̪̭͕̝͓̩̠̝̪̬̼̯̩̻̭ͨ͒̐͐̋ͦ͆ͩͤ̈́̽̔ͤ͋̊ͭ̕ͅͅĉ̨̼͕͔͉̖̹̰̠̫̭̞̼̤ͯ͂̎͗ͪ̌͐̑̂͌ͬͥ̄o̵̢̹̗̮̰̣̜̊ͥ͐̈̒͐̃ͧ̄m̷̡̬̦͕̙͕͇̜͓̤̮̺̦ͪ͂͋̒͋̅ͧͨͣ͛̓ͬ͗ͭ̈́̏͝ͅ
12:56:19 <Destructible> PÍ̸̱ÍÍÌ®Ì̹̮ÌÍ
ÍÍU̵ÍÒÌ´ÍÌÍÍ̹̼Ì̬̳̬ÍÍÍÍÍDÌ¢ÍÍÍÍÍÌÍD̶ÍÍ̲ÍÌỊ̲́ÌÍ̤ÍÌ¥ÍÌÍÌ®Ì ÍIÌ¡ÍÍ̡̲Í̥̩ÌNÌ¢Í̱̺ÍÌ̳̳ÍÍḬ̺̼̲́ÌÍÍÌÌ̲GÌÍÍÍ̥̼̰ÍÌÌ«Í̪̺̥ÍÍÍÌ±Í Í̶Ì̲ÍÍÍ̦Í̯̰̫̹̱P̶ÒÍ¡ÒÍÍ̫̹̮ÍÌǪ̶̶͡ÌḬ̩̺̯̮̣́Í̼Ì̯P̨ÍÌ̪Ì̼ÍÍ
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ÍÌ®ÍSÍÍÌ´Ǫ̀ÌÌÍÍÍ̪̲ÍÍ̱̱ÍÌ̳ÍÍ.Ì´ÍÍÌÍÌÌ̩̩̬ÍÍ ÍÍ¡Ì¡Ì©Í̪ÌŢ̢Í
12:56:58 <Destructible> P̵̡̞͈͕̹̒̐̀͛ͮ̿ͫͨ̑̈̿̊ͪ̈ͣ̾̎̑Ư̡̨͈͕̰̰̺̘̦̮̠̝͎̺̲ͪ̾ͨ̑ͨͫ̈́ͦ͋̈́͜͢D̵̡̻͎͙̜̖͍̩̩̩̙̫̜͊̈́ͦ̅̆̔̈ͨͮ͐̌͋̾̐̏̿ͥ̿́̀ͅD̶̛͇͈͈̹̰̬̖̝̞̻̲̦̠̳ͭͦ̄̎͛ͤ̋̅ͮ̔̈̌̓͆́ͣͩ͟Iͤͧ̽̇͠͏̶̮͍̻̻͕̞͕͞N̮͇͙̗͕͈̯̗̹͚͎̣̼̯̞̞̭̔̉͗̄̔ͭ̇̄ͯ̅ͥ͊͆̑ͦ̊͝ͅĢ̷̜̟̘͔͚̬͉̲̗̞̼̣͎̬̺͔̮̤̝͐ͥͫͫ͌͂̄ͭ̿ͩ͆̓̀̀̚͝ ̓̃
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13:20:25 <Etaoin> cos'(x) is -sin(x) tho
13:20:44 <Etaoin> it's a nice little pattern akin to exponentiating i
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13:22:26 <Etaoin> sin'(x) = cos(x), cos(x)' = -sin(x), -sin'(x) = -cos(x), -cos'(x) = sin(x); similarly i^2=-1, i^3 = -i, i^4 = 1, i^5 = i
13:23:00 <Etaoin> always thought it was a neat similarity
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13:24:33 <Etaoin> whichever community I join there's always a person called dingbat, it's remarkable
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13:44:25 <fizzie> It's all because of circles.
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14:19:34 <izabera> is it always the same dingbat?
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15:16:33 <oerjan> hm bitcoin bubble bursting
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15:25:18 <fizzie> A big balloon was popped here a while ago.
15:25:55 <fizzie> (Apparently the ceiling has some pointy bits.)
15:26:02 <int-e> oh it's approaching another halving... that may be fun to watch
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15:51:14 <quintopia> oerjan: dammit. couldnt it wait one more day?
15:51:44 <oerjan> were you going to sell
15:53:10 <quintopia> i was going to make a purchase. i had just barely enougb. now i have not enough.
15:54:34 <b_jonas> quintopia: don't worry, your GBP will also be worth either much more or much less than now tomorrow evening.
15:54:41 <b_jonas> so the bitcoin isn't the only thing that changes
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16:04:56 <b_jonas> quintopia: the EUR holdings will also change somewhat, I think
16:09:31 <fizzie> There were people at the train stations wanting me to vote in a certain way.
16:09:47 <fizzie> One of them tried to give me an "I'm in" button.
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16:11:12 <fizzie> "EU referendum day live: Police called over conspiracy theory about voting with pens"
16:11:38 <fizzie> "Social media claims that Remain supporters are trying to ‘rig’ the election by rubbing out votes cast in pencil led to Brexit supporter Jacqueline Jackson handing out pens at her local polling station in Chichester."
16:12:03 <coppro> I've seen a properly implemented election process
16:12:19 <coppro> there are multiple sets of eyes on the entire contents of the ballot box from the moment it's opened
16:12:32 <coppro> and the box itself is in plain sight throughtout the day
16:15:09 <\oren\> When do the results get tallied on TV?
16:16:50 <\oren\> I have about 600 pounds in a jar somewhere
16:17:11 <\oren\> and about the same of Euros
16:17:51 <\oren\> because we never rember to change currencies at the airport
16:18:12 <Phantom_Hoover> i took out 300 euros for a holiday just now but i suppose if brexit happens i can make a profit on them
16:19:23 <fizzie> \oren\: They said the result's likely known at around 6-7am Friday local time.
16:19:33 <coppro> the official final result
16:19:46 <fizzie> It's going to start dribbling in before that, of course.
16:19:49 <coppro> the outcome may be clear earlier based on incoming polls
16:20:49 <fizzie> I don't have a bet, but I'd like it to be that. Of course nobody's asked me, and I'm one of those people the other camp would presumably want to keep out, so.
16:21:07 <Phantom_Hoover> you can just scribble out a cross written in pen and put a cross in the other box
16:21:14 <Phantom_Hoover> and that'll be interpreted as a clear preference anyway
16:21:41 <\oren\> Hmm? in Canada you have to fill the entire square
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16:21:53 <Phantom_Hoover> apparently in the western isles they once had a ballot with 'wank' written next to all of the candidates except for the snp one who had 'good guy' written there
16:22:12 <fizzie> In Finnish elections, you type in a number inside a giant circle. The polling stations have a sample sheet of how to write numbers on the wall.
16:22:49 <fizzie> http://static.liljat.fi/uploads/2012/10/melissa-mantyla-endorses-lilja-tamminen-finnish-ballot-helsinki-municipal-elections.jpg <- looks like that.
16:22:55 <coppro> that wouldn't fly here in canada
16:23:04 <coppro> in canada you can do anything you want as long as you mark in exactly one of the circles
16:23:10 <coppro> any markings in multiple circles invalidate it
16:23:21 <coppro> it was counted as a valid vote
16:23:55 <fizzie> I believe they're very picky back in Finland, I think many extra things like doodling on the card would invalidate a vote.
16:24:08 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: you can go back to the DRO and ask for a new ballot
16:24:30 <coppro> in which case the previous ballot is crossed out, marked as invalidated, and put into a separate envelope to keep it from being counted
16:24:38 <coppro> you can only do that once though iirc
16:25:00 <Phantom_Hoover> no in the UK it's a pretty informal thing, i think basically they put all the spoilt ballots in a big pile and then the representatives of each party haggle over what gets counted for whom
16:25:10 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: in theory that can happen here
16:25:18 <coppro> in practice it's pretty rare since the rules are generally quite clear
16:26:40 <fizzie> You can request a new ballot in Finland as well, if you screw up. The instruction booklet says they'll rip up the bad one.
16:27:01 <fizzie> Or possibly you do. It's in passive voice, and just says the ripping will be done so that the officials see it.
16:28:06 <fizzie> Ooh, there's a 7-point list in the law as to what sort of markings actually invalidate a vote.
16:28:15 <\oren\> coppro: Really? I thought you had to completely fille whichever box you wnat and do nothing in the other boxes?
16:28:29 <fizzie> 1) There's more than one ballot, or something else in addition to the ballot in the envelope.
16:28:52 <fizzie> 2) There's any markings in the *envelope*.
16:29:11 <fizzie> 3) The ballot is some other piece of paper than the one printed by the government.
16:29:18 <fizzie> 4) The stamp is missing.
16:29:39 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, that's what happened when I was involved in the youth parliament, I think on the basis that it would be similar to actual parliament
16:29:41 <fizzie> 5) The candidate number isn't clear enough to unambiguously say who it meant.
16:30:22 <fizzie> 6) The ballot has the voter's name on it, or a recognizable mark, or "other irrelevant markings".
16:30:33 <fizzie> 7) The candidate number isn't valid.
16:31:00 <fizzie> But apparently if you do additional markings to clarify who you meant to vote for (I guess maybe the candidate name) that's okay.
16:31:06 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I lost a vote because someone had put a tick in my box and a cross in all the other boxes
16:33:45 <fizzie> The way it works in Finland, you fold the ballot so that the number's not visible, bring it to the desk, the officials stamp it, then you put it in the box. It felt weird to vote here because the ballot wasn't of the folding kind.
16:33:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, was that not a unique identifying mark for you?
16:34:07 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, no, on the basis that a cross is the recommended mark to make for the candidate you wanted to vote for
16:34:56 <quintopia> @tell boily the USPS website doesn't like your city or province to be spelled correctly. (maybe their system just can't represent "é")
16:34:59 <b_jonas> wait what? what would you normally vote with, if not pens?
16:35:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, but could you not argue that in that situation that they still clearly expressed a preference?
16:35:54 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, not, like, when I was 15
16:36:08 <Taneb> And I won the election by a landslide anyway
16:36:12 <b_jonas> "<Phantom_Hoover> you can just scribble out a cross written in pen and put a cross in the other box / and that'll be interpreted as a clear preference anyway / apparently in the western isles they once had a ballot with 'wank' written next to all of the candidates except for the snp one who had 'good guy' written there"
16:36:59 <b_jonas> what? we have RULES for that sort of thing. you vote by putting a cross or plus sign in any single circle. if you put marks in more than one circle, it's an invalid vote.
16:37:22 <b_jonas> and that's even written clearly in the instructions hung on the wall in election places.
16:37:35 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, also, like, I'm really not an assertive chap
16:37:39 <Taneb> I'd be terrible in politics
16:37:49 <b_jonas> and they always give you ballpoint pens, not pencils.
16:37:57 <Phantom_Hoover> b_jonas, the rules are basically the same here but they allow for counting votes if all the interested parties agree on the interpretation
16:39:20 <b_jonas> "<coppro> there are multiple sets of eyes on the entire contents of the ballot box from the moment it's opened" => exactly, and that's necessary too, because without that, someone who can write on the slips could just void a vote by marking multiple circles (that doesn't change it to a different valid vote, but still changes the count)
16:40:44 <b_jonas> "<coppro> Phantom_Hoover: you can go back to the DRO and ask for a new ballot" => this, yes
16:42:23 <izabera> can someone explain me why this is useful?
16:42:26 <izabera> # define pipe(v) ((socketpair(AF_UNIX,SOCK_STREAM,0,v)<0||shutdown((v)[1],SHUT_RD)<0||fchmod((v)[1],S_IWUSR)<0||shutdown((v)[0],SHUT_WR)<0||fchmod((v)[0],S_IRUSR)<0)?(-1):0)
16:42:27 <Taneb> @tell boily if the UK leaves I have a backup plan
16:42:55 <izabera> redefining pipe to use socketpair + shutdown x2 + fchmod x2
16:43:31 <izabera> there was no comment around that in the source
16:44:47 <b_jonas> izabera: I think that was for older Linux systems where a pipe had a kernel buffer with its size hard-fixed to some too small value, whereas a stream socketpair provides similar semantics and has a larger buffer by default and you can change its buffer size.
16:45:05 <b_jonas> izabera: if the buffer is too small, that could cause too many process switches when large data is sent.
16:45:23 <b_jonas> izabera: this is no longer a problem (on Linux), because these days Linux uses a larger buffer for a pipe
16:45:45 <b_jonas> izabera: Windows 7 uses a small buffer by default but they have an OS-specific way to change that.
16:46:49 <b_jonas> izabera: the fchmod looks pretty stupid though
16:46:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, does it involve fucking off to the netherlands?
16:47:16 <izabera> afaik the author is david korn
16:48:24 <b_jonas> izabera: sure, I'm just saying
16:50:58 <HackEgo> procrastination//The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
16:50:59 <HackEgo> Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise.
16:52:39 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
16:52:43 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
16:52:46 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
16:52:51 <HackEgo> auto//Auto is the German word for car.
16:52:56 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
16:53:00 <HackEgo> Char is a prominent component of charcoal.
16:53:01 <HackEgo> log//I think you might mean !logs
16:53:11 <HackEgo> enrichment centre//The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible.
16:57:56 <quintopia> I have this superexponential growth under my armpit
16:58:13 <\oren\> Stupid Expensify is malfunctioning
17:06:00 <fizzie> If a tree falls in a forest, does it create a log? </philosophy>
17:06:27 <oerjan> <b_jonas> @tell \oren\ in http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm , in the cyphered version, on the top row second block, you're missing on the top row second block, you're missing <-- i'm sure that cleared things up.
17:06:59 <quintopia> fizzie: does it fall publicly in the channel?
17:07:13 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
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17:25:45 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, basically, yeah
17:29:29 <izabera> i need an address where it's possible to write without damaging the system, but outside my address space
17:38:09 <\oren\> From user mode, writing anywhere in kernel space won't damage the system.
17:38:48 <\oren\> you'll get a segfault (damaging your own process) but the rest of the system won't be affected
17:39:24 <\oren\> for example, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF is an adress in kernel space
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18:21:23 <\oren\> Apparently ROFL is obsolete, superseded by ROLF
18:21:56 <fizzie> Rolling on the laughing floor?
18:27:45 <\oren\> I think they changed the order so you can pronounce it in one syllable
18:29:11 <int-e> rolling on, laughing furiously
18:30:20 <Taneb> Red, Orange, Lleyow, Flue
18:30:25 <Taneb> Colours of the rainbow
18:31:39 <int-e> but without color codes?
18:31:55 <shachaf> uh oh, Taneb's tanebventing again
18:32:16 <Taneb> Nah, I'm on holiday
18:34:33 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
18:34:42 <HackEgo> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets and tiny elfs. Taneb invented it.
18:35:52 <HackEgo> phantom_______hoover//It doesn't get any better than this.
18:36:04 <HackEgo> certainly//We don't know what certainly is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor.
18:36:12 <HackEgo> russia//Russia is a country so huge it manages to be so near to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronald Reagan destroyed it.
18:36:31 <HackEgo> persistence//Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since.
18:36:37 <HackEgo> fentimans//fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack.
18:37:32 <HackEgo> Japan is so far from Finland. However, like Finland, it is so near to Russia, and quite a long way from Cairo. It's many fewer miles from Vietnam than Finland is.
18:38:14 <HackEgo> Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
18:38:29 <HackEgo> Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
18:38:53 <\oren\> I still think Canada should join the EU
18:39:13 <fizzie> I think Australia should join the EU.
18:39:15 <shachaf> Scotland should leave the UK and join the EU.
18:39:19 <fizzie> With Eurovision, they're already halfway there.
18:39:41 <Taneb> fizzie, if the UK stays in, Australia joins, and I do my backup plan anyway...
18:39:45 <Taneb> I'll be three EU citizens
18:39:49 <\oren\> Maybe after Brexit they'll let us join as a more polite version of Britain
18:40:14 <int-e> only if you get rid of Quebec
18:40:23 <int-e> One France is enough for the EU.
18:41:00 <\oren\> Quebec might separate after being inspired by Britain
18:44:46 <\oren\> Or maybe I'll start a revolution to make Toronto an independent City-state
18:45:10 <\oren\> the rest of ontario would heartily support us
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19:00:25 <Taneb> \oren\, I believe there is a similar campaign for London, England
19:01:16 <b_jonas> oerjan: was it truncated like that or something?
19:02:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: anyway, http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm has a bug: in the cyphered part, top row middle block " ᛅᛋᛣᚢᛅᛚ " is wrong, iw should be " ᛅᛋᛣᛅᚢᛅᛚ " so that the E of "descende" is included;
19:04:39 <b_jonas> \oren\: that letter is present in the book
19:08:53 <b_jonas> \oren\: it's still missing in the latin transcription of the cyphered block on http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm
19:13:43 <b_jonas> \oren\: good. I also suggest that you include the French translation form the novel
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19:32:08 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of eight genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
19:48:13 <\oren\> > math::e**(math::pi*math::i)
19:48:14 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:24: parse error on input ‘::’
19:49:39 <\oren\> > Fractional.e(Fractional.pi)
19:49:41 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘Fractional.e’Not in scope: ‘Fractional.pi’
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19:53:36 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:19: parse error on input ‘)’
19:53:39 <lambdabot> 0.9271380752254357 :+ 1.1941162626914863
19:54:06 <\oren\> > (exp(1)**pi)**(0:+1)
19:54:58 <\oren\> ever heard of precedence rules Haskell!?!?@?
19:55:45 <shachaf> ** is infixr, so a**b**c = a**(b**c)
19:56:15 <shachaf> also function application is written "f x", not "f(x)" hth
19:56:24 <\oren\> It's not doing euler right
19:57:09 <\oren\> > (exp 1)**(pi*(0:+1))
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19:57:36 <\oren\> also it doesn't have i or e as constants
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19:58:00 <shachaf> It has exp, which is what you're doing anyway.
19:58:35 <shachaf> > exp (pi * (0 :+ 1)) :: Complex CReal
19:58:55 <b_jonas> shachaf: do you mean exp (0 :+ pi)
19:59:42 <shachaf> i was just copying \'s expression from above hth
19:59:46 <\oren\> Was it doesng integers not reals by default or something?
20:00:38 <lambdabot> Expecting one more argument to ‘Real’
20:00:38 <lambdabot> Expected a type, but ‘Real’ has kind ‘* -> Constraint’
20:00:38 <lambdabot> In an expression type signature: Real
20:00:44 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘CReal’
20:00:45 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘exp’, namely ‘(0 :+ pi)’
20:00:54 <\oren\> > exp(0:+pi) :: Complex
20:00:56 <lambdabot> Expecting one more argument to ‘Complex’
20:00:56 <lambdabot> Expected a type, but ‘Complex’ has kind ‘* -> *’
20:00:56 <lambdabot> In an expression type signature: Complex
20:01:08 <\oren\> > exp(0:+pi) :: Complex Double
20:01:15 <\oren\> > exp(0:+pi) :: Complex CReal
20:01:32 <shachaf> It was using floating point values by default.
20:04:02 <izabera> i need help with a linux thingy
20:04:38 <izabera> http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/net/socket.c#L1584 this is the getpeername() syscall
20:05:09 <izabera> it calls move_addr_to_user()
20:05:14 <izabera> which is here http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/net/socket.c#L216
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20:06:12 <izabera> move_addr_to_user checks if it can write to the sockaddr* and returns -EFAULT if it can't
20:06:42 <izabera> but it doesn't check if it can write to the socklen_t* argument in getpeername()
20:07:05 <izabera> it's in line 240: return __put_user(klen, ulen);
20:08:21 <izabera> i tried to test if this can write outside my address space, but i can't
20:08:32 <izabera> and it's probably my test that's not working
20:08:44 <b_jonas> izabera: doesn't the __put_user macro check that?
20:09:15 <izabera> click on it and you can see its definition
20:09:28 <b_jonas> izabera: how about the get_user function in line 223 then?
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20:11:16 <b_jonas> izabera: right, but it gets the value from user space, so the field is already known to be at least readable
20:11:33 <b_jonas> the get_user ensures it's in user-space
20:12:17 <b_jonas> izabera: and __put_user ensures it's writable
20:12:21 <b_jonas> together the two should be enough
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20:32:41 <izabera> i've been looking at get_user for a while and i don't see where it checks if it can access that
21:09:34 <b_jonas> izabera: it has to check that the address is in user space, not kernel space, which is just a single comparison with a very fixed address (the linear address space is partitioned that way on Linux), then after that, it has to check if the address is readable _for the kernel_.
21:11:49 <izabera> it never checks if it's in that process' address space
21:12:07 <b_jonas> izabera: there's only one process mapped at a time, even in kernel mode
21:12:13 <b_jonas> it doesn't have to check which process
21:13:14 <izabera> so what happens if i pass an address that's in userspace but not where i can write?
21:14:00 <b_jonas> izabera: then the read will succeed, but the write will fail, and so the syscall will give you an EFAULT
21:15:11 <b_jonas> izabera: both for the read and write, after checking if it's in the user half of the address space, the kernel normally has to just attempt the memory read or write, and it will get a fault if it fails, which fault it might handle (eg. by loading from a swap device) or it might be a hard error, in the latter case the syscall will give EFAULT.
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21:16:11 <izabera> oh it is returning efault now
21:16:26 <izabera> i don't know what i did before but it returned 0
21:22:06 <fizzie> A man was at the railway station shouting how many minutes until the polls close. They're certainly very enthusiastic.
21:24:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, only 35 minutes now, so be quick and vote, everyone!
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21:42:26 <\oren\> Oh Boris is at the polling station
21:42:45 <fizzie> Did he take one of his bikes to get there?
21:43:12 <\oren\> I dunno, he was with some woman
21:45:18 <fizzie> Do they have tandem Boris bikes? I guess not.
21:45:36 <fizzie> "Mayor of London under fire for £500 tandem Boris Bike royal wedding gift"
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21:46:40 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
21:47:28 <fizzie> This is less of a celebration without the other rows.
21:48:59 <\oren\> wat happen to the bot that added legs?
21:49:56 <HackEgo> myndzi used to keep us all on our feet.
21:50:08 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/myndzi
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21:50:25 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull oerjan
21:52:26 <\oren\> so he was simply a person with a custom script in his irc client?
21:55:06 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
21:57:03 <Taneb> fungot, are you a bot
21:57:03 <fungot> Taneb: i just found that you can actually have a process started
21:57:29 <int-e> fungot is semisentient too
21:57:29 <fungot> int-e: question is, what are the puzzles? i'm not sure how
21:57:39 <int-e> eerily so, sometimes
21:57:45 <shachaf> int-e: you should add me to the lambdabot admin list twh
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22:09:36 <HackEgo> JX7P: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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23:18:53 <fungot> b_jonas: r5rs gives some guidelines as to what a child with down syndrome could understand. i'm interested about it fnord ahead :) negative array indexes and computed gotos
23:19:10 <b_jonas> computed come froms are better
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23:46:31 <fungot> boily: and this is not a primitive name in: atom?? gdbm-ci? null? list)...
23:46:38 <lambdabot> quintopia said 7h 11m 41s ago: the USPS website doesn't like your city or province to be spelled correctly. (maybe their system just can't represent "é")
23:46:38 <lambdabot> Taneb said 7h 4m 11s ago: if the UK leaves I have a backup plan
23:47:02 <boily> @tell quintopia Montreal and Quebec are perfectly fine hth
23:47:48 <boily> @ask Taneb so you're moving to Canada?
23:48:02 <Taneb> @tell boily No, the Netherlands
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23:50:16 <boily> Tanelle. that's not Canada hth
23:52:21 <Taneb> boily, I'm almost eligible for Dutch nationality
23:52:44 <Taneb> And I don't want to go from University of York to York University
23:53:10 <boily> Dutch Nationality Exam: [ ] Do you speak Dutch [ ] Can you bike [ ] Black licorice tastes good
23:54:24 <shachaf> "ngevd" is dutch for "taneb", right?
23:55:03 <shachaf> Taneb: I thought you were going to move to the United States.
23:55:34 <shachaf> So you could buy some health insurance.
23:55:50 <Taneb> shachaf, I think I already have health insurance
23:56:04 <Taneb> boily, No, Sort of, In Moderation
23:56:55 <shachaf> Taneb: You probably didn't pay enough for it, though.
23:59:00 <oerjan> boily: maya (grmbl, you almost got me there)
00:01:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i have a backup plan but i can't put it into action for another two weeks
00:01:58 <Phantom_Hoover> which is a problem because by then everyone will be doing the same and the passport offices will be swamped
00:02:10 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, you have Irish family, right?
00:03:13 <shachaf> A family of vacuum cleaners?
00:03:37 <oerjan> <boily> Dutch Nationality Exam: [ ] Do you speak Dutch [ ] Can you bike [ ] Black licorice tastes good <-- ooh, i've got two of three!
00:04:01 <boily> Phantom Hoover, son of Ghost Hoover, son of Spirit Hoover.
00:04:13 <shachaf> Since one of those three is an objective fact, which is objectively false.
00:05:23 <oerjan> shachaf: that's the missing one hth
00:06:22 <shachaf> as a finishing touch, god created Taneb
00:06:27 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:09:09 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:09:23 -!- moon__ has joined.
00:09:54 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
00:10:35 <shachaf> `le/rn curry's paradox/If this sentence is true, then Taneb invented Curry's paradox.
00:10:50 <moon__> my virtualbox is apparently missing
00:10:54 <boily> tanebventions were split?
00:11:01 <boily> he\\oren\, mhelloon__!
00:11:21 <moon__> and the installer wont work, so im running malware bytes
00:11:41 <moon__> i *think* i might have malware
00:13:00 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
00:13:08 * boily pokes moon__ in the direction of a linux distro
00:13:25 <\oren\> I know I have malware, on the basis that I wrote many bad programs
00:13:53 <moon__> Boily, thats WHY i have virtualbox
00:14:02 <moon__> because i cant install on this laptop
00:14:07 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover> i have a backup plan but i can't put it into action for another two weeks <-- iirc wasn't there supposed to be something like 2 years before the ties get broken for real?
00:15:16 <HackEgo> The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
00:15:17 * moon__ eats whatever broke his virtualbox
00:15:37 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, sure but there'd be a run on EU passports as soon as a brexit result came in
00:16:11 <oerjan> <boily> tanebventions were split? <-- it was inevitable.
00:16:12 <\oren\> moon__: why can't you? no CD drive?
00:16:12 <moon__> hopefully i get a perfect 0
00:16:26 <moon__> Yea, my diskdrive decided to fall out (=
00:16:30 <boily> oerjan: itym inevitaneble hth
00:17:01 <HackEgo> boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
00:17:12 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: well as long as they don't run out permanently...
00:17:31 <moon__> boily has the best one lol
00:17:31 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
00:17:50 <boily> moon__: note that "trigotillectomic" uniquely identifies me in google searches :D
00:18:22 <moon__> time to add 'overmoonification' to all my profiles lol
00:18:59 -!- jaboja has joined.
00:19:12 <moon__> how do i append to wisdom entrys?
00:19:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:20:11 <oerjan> if the key is a single word
00:20:43 <moon__> `learn_append moon . He sometimes causes overmoonification
00:20:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'moon': Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. . He sometimes causes overmoonification
00:20:56 <shachaf> oerjan: it's ok, you're retired
00:21:23 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:21:27 <oerjan> moon__: your `learn_append privileges are revoked hth
00:21:57 <HackEgo> Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:22:30 <oerjan> (1) you cannot append punctuation to what's already there (2) because of 1, you must have punctuation at the end of what you add
00:23:18 <moon__> `learn_append moon He sometimes causes overmoonification.
00:23:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'moon': Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification.
00:25:24 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> Are there any problems that are /literally/ unsolvable on CCs but not on QCs? <-- no hth
00:27:42 <moon__> what does hth even mean?
00:27:57 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
00:28:52 <moon__> Hairy Toe Hambiguitous
00:30:15 <moon__> Time to get a aflac ad on a page about a phobia about having a duck watching you
00:32:47 <boily> a Duck is Always Watching You. it Guards You from Evil. Fungot Knows.
00:33:45 <fizzie> I don't know, ducks have always seemed a bit suspicious to me. Like they're plotting something.
00:33:56 <oerjan> http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=2590
00:34:18 <oerjan> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90zefhKFP1rbs5emo1_500.gif
00:35:09 <oerjan> (if you're old enough, you can probably guess what it is)
00:35:23 <oerjan> (of course, only i am that old)
00:36:30 <oerjan> (this is the original btw. i see it has been memeified.)
00:36:56 <moon__> the phobia about long words... is a long word: hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia
00:37:05 <moon__> idk if i even spelled it right
00:38:09 <Koen_> sounds like someone made that one up on purpose
00:38:17 <oerjan> moon__: of course almost half of that is fake
00:38:51 * moon__ notes the fact 'your guillible' is written on the ceiling
00:39:01 <oerjan> the part from sesqui on is more reasonable. but still mixing latin and greek ugh
00:39:49 <oerjan> `learn A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script.
00:39:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'guillible': A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script.
00:39:57 -!- adu has joined.
00:41:26 <oerjan> . o O ( what's the longest word that hasn't been invented just to be long )
00:43:11 <moon__> . o O ( I want to point out to oerjan that its the name of a protein )
00:43:46 <Koen_> I just set up a policy neural network to play tictactoe against itself and train on the moves they played in games they won
00:44:09 <Koen_> now I can take bets on the number of games needed for the network to become good
00:45:55 <moon__> next up: train a neural network to make bets and win them
00:47:15 <moon__> by name i mean the moleculear (or is it chemical) name
00:48:48 <moon__> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:List_of_protologisms/Long_words/Titin
00:50:20 <oerjan> <Destructible> P̸̱͕͕̮̜̹̮̜͍͉͝ͅU̵͏҉̴͈̖͓͔̹̼̞̬̳̬͔͖͓͇͔D̢͓̭͈̀̀̀͝D̶͓̲͉̜͉̣̲̝͉̤͍̥͙̞͇̮̠͔͝Ì̡̡̲͉̥̩̘͟Ṉ̢̺͈̟̳̳͙͈͔̰̺̼̲̝͚͉̙̗̲͟G͎͓̥̼̰͎̝̫͕̪̺̥͎͎͇̱͎̕͘ ̶̛̲͍͙͇̦͇̯̰̫̹̱͞P̶҉͡҉͚͓̫̹̮͍̘Ǫ̶̶̭͔̰̩̺̯̮̣͓̼̟̯͡P̨͉̭̪̗̼͖̮͉͕̮͖ͅͅS̴͟͜҉̨̖̟͖͈͇̪̲͇͚̱̱͍̭̳͎͙.̴̛͙͞͞
00:50:26 <oerjan> ̞̞̩̩̬͖͓ ̡̩͍̪̙͝͡Ţ̢� <-- ...
00:50:29 <oerjan> ... the garfield is strong in this one.
00:50:47 <moon__> not hangdown characters
00:51:06 <Koen_> my irc client doesn't know how to react to this
00:53:47 <boily> garfield? hangdown?
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00:55:15 <moon__> *Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì
00:55:22 <oerjan> moon__: it's appropriate. also i think e was alluding to http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=1928
00:56:09 <oerjan> although there are other more direct zalgo references
00:56:10 <moon__> Oh, THAT comic, i kinda enjoy that one
00:57:32 <oerjan> moon__: btw your fancy line above is not correct utf-8, so it shows up as ...Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©Ì©... for me.
00:57:48 <moon__> but its valid unicode :P
00:58:01 <oerjan> i think a byte got cut off
00:58:22 <oerjan> that it is, it's too long, and a utf-8 char got cut in the middle.
00:58:25 <Koen_> is this an accentuated capital i followed by a copyright sign, over and over again?
00:59:00 <Koen_> okay, I'm switching back to latin-1 then
00:59:28 <moon__> unless you are talking about oerjan's post
00:59:29 <oerjan> Koen_: it's meant to be utf-8, but the line contains one broken char
01:00:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
01:00:18 <moon__> *ÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌ
01:00:29 <Koen_> now it's just the accentuated I
01:00:35 <Koen_> and a star at the beginning
01:01:03 <HackEgo> 2 codepoints \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
01:01:56 <oerjan> hm that's not even latin-1
01:02:35 <oerjan> it looks like you converted it to a different charset, and then encoded that as utf-8
01:03:25 <b_jonas> `perl -eprint "o".pack"V*",(2915861196)x29
01:03:27 <HackEgo> ô̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂
01:03:37 <b_jonas> `perl -eprint "o".pack"V*",(2915861196)x79
01:03:38 <HackEgo> ô̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̭̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂
01:04:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:04:51 <moon__> my stuff is rendering wrong?
01:04:56 -!- adu has joined.
01:08:13 <oerjan> @tell Etaoin <Etaoin> always thought it was a neat similarity <-- it's not just a similarity, in fact sin(x) = (e^(ix) - e^(-ix))/(2i) and then it becomes the _exact_ same thing.
01:11:09 <\oren\> all my spaceplanes explode
01:11:15 <HackEgo> U+009E <control> \ UTF-8: c2 9e UTF-16BE: 009e Decimal: ž \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
01:11:32 <oerjan> moon__: my client and many others have a fallback where if a line is not entirely correct utf-8, it gets interpreted as latin-1 (or rather the windows superset) instead.
01:11:40 <HackEgo> [U+00CC LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH GRAVE]
01:11:53 <tswett> `unicode U+9ECC U+CC9E
01:12:13 <oerjan> (well, it's an optional setting, that i was recommended back when i got utf-8 working in it)
01:12:31 <tswett> I like the second one better.
01:13:16 <b_jonas> um, the first one looks like a kanji, the second one looks like a hangul
01:13:27 <HackEgo> [U+CC9E HANGUL SYLLABLE CEONH]
01:15:17 <tswett> 0xCC 0x9E is valid UTF-8 for something, right?
01:16:02 <shachaf> > printf "%08b %08b" 0xcc 0x9e :: String
01:16:03 <tswett> Those bytes are 11001100 10011110, which binarizes as 1100011110, or 31E?
01:16:12 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:16:22 <HackEgo> Wide character in print at -e line 1. \ 쑝鸥煾긴홊뒂숙 ⥸豙嚌�蘺囑⠥軁㫸㐯씁 콪貟ᓇ謆進難Ἂ臍﨏ᅶ៱ 岍诺鵙⼠Ṹ䐃�䑈 꼍䗹婊䆷쀙᧰ ᡥ晎죋怒쓔渫팦 │㊒뜄倓ḛ뽽�⎳旬鹁 濋⾯餦㘥랬뎻
01:16:33 <pikhq> tswett: Yep, totally legal UTF-8.
01:17:16 <shachaf> > text $ "1100011110" ^.. binary . to chr
01:17:32 <oerjan> <Etaoin> always thought it was a neat similarity <-- surely you can pronounce it as rofly one syllable anyway
01:17:40 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "C0U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:17:42 <HackEgo> 㘍䃮浄ᦃ鼈퓔 ᢃ⻲簵⢰䌃ʗ 灌�듈⼡ 뼓껳膁봾匾蟲璡⥦ 祳ὕ̜촂䲾ਉᒣ䋫严ս 쮜ힱ篡꯫ 愍 껭ꆜ뭯橫晰㙃
01:17:43 * oerjan needs to remember to press ^C
01:17:51 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "C0U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:17:52 <HackEgo> ᚺ૩셠ꔞ 毀ﴟ曓뎵ꭊ茔䩙ᥔ䁉⟉ኰ 給▒肩ȓ鉝틻 ��⤐辨줳碧 䞅鷽⡰뼼ꚁ㍣ꯦ 鲬孋첲鯹튬ଷ 枽岊贀⒕ꌯ ﴘ爸쿤㶽Ó͜
01:18:07 <oerjan> <\oren\> I think they changed the order so you can pronounce it in one syllable <-- surely you can pronounce it as rofly one syllable anyway
01:20:22 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "C0U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:20:23 <HackEgo> 袐ᇹ膍ﻤ暴 沇䦶뽀쯳㰖샭퉂箲 䩡랜虾抡꼏慌⁂ 끄炶뱶릌쟡恌洺୫淓 撒㝩큿欘ܴ᳐䞗쭵댻 鯙䇢˫ 솔갱㣹Ʋ㿽뺷 ꍽ븿ࣻቘ騚ᲈྭ
01:23:20 <lambdabot> oerjan said 57m 55s ago: <hppavilion[1]> Are there any problems that are /literally/ unsolvable on CCs but not on QCs? <-- no hth
01:24:09 <oerjan> well you can consider that part of classical
01:24:43 <oerjan> of course this might depend on how you define "problem".
01:24:59 <izabera> how annoyed would you be if some http server replied with 403 to any HEAD request but a GET request for the same content returned 200 ?
01:25:45 <oerjan> wouldn't that like totally ruin all browser caching
01:26:37 <oerjan> looks like it's time to send a NUKE request, then.
01:28:29 * izabera just wanted to know the size of the windows installer for supertux but it's impossible to know
01:28:42 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:28:45 <HackEgo> Wide character in print at -e line 1. \ �梔翪纞싩텎蹱塞픒ਅ 枾䚋樂ᄕ娅♰ 䞆胚遰ꩥ㩶 픮쵌ⵔ卣퐲팊陋弖흘 僯㷠鞰쌵쩶薭 䆈좆蘷欐䅗䏩懪恟 巴⛝境蜈प൨僼ᡖ 唑民桫斬�泲賈�뙦
01:28:59 <b_jonas> `perl -euse List::Util"max"; print join" ",map{pack "C0U*",map{128+rand(1<<16-128)}0..max(rand(10),rand(11))}0..7;
01:29:00 <HackEgo> 䊈䴞꺁⸂₣ 業ҡଁ喆Ꮵ㏉袐誝薫蛇 뙥ꯞﱮ⣃ຏ︷䡨䛱 㹃ᄋ눃椑䠳 ꢟ秳찋쭀𐀛桞㎐ 졸䞇紂殠듭䘇﴿썂 蓲엶䃍ꭶ韓첫ꧧ䟙 䇾㑌騇︿
01:30:06 * moon__ runs back off to square root of minus garfield
01:33:24 <boily> was on the phone and I get back to some kind of apocalyptic caractaclysm...
01:33:32 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!).
01:34:24 <boily> what the fungot is going on here...
01:34:24 <fungot> boily: it was on tv. 3
01:34:32 <boily> fungot: I missed it, was on the phone.
01:34:32 <fungot> boily: _they_ are after him.
01:34:36 <fungot> boily: hmm.... i can't both read and scroll that page simultaneously.
01:34:50 <boily> fungot: me neither. my client's spewing nonsense on the screen.
01:35:25 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
01:36:18 <boily> hellambda-11235. Do Not Logread. Ignore any Eldritch Nonsense that may have Happened. Preserve your Brain. Your Sanity is Valuable.
01:36:44 <shachaf> Feel free to spam a bit, though.
01:36:59 <shachaf> All that nonsense is messing up my terminal.
01:37:11 <shachaf> So I hope to have it scroll off the screen soon.
01:37:29 <boily> I'll write random ramblings in French. French Promotes Sanity.
01:37:47 <boily> bon, espérant que t'es capable d'afficher des lettres dans latin-1.
01:38:01 <boily> pas mal tout le monde aujourd'hui sont capable de se communiquer de même.
01:38:36 <boily> tsé, pas trop difficile... quelques é pis des à à travers, pis un ç si t'es malchanceux. c'est vrai que tu peux voir des trémas aussi, mais ça arrive juste dans le maïs pis à Noël.
01:38:43 <boily> shachaf: French is Functional hth
01:39:17 <boily> ça me rappelle quand j'ai été pris pour prononcer des mos pas possibles. c'était tu du géorgien c'te fois-là?
01:39:22 <boily> y manquait un peu trop de voyelles.
01:39:28 <boily> shachaf: how many lines in your client?
01:39:51 <boily> j'aime bien les voyelles. ça fait une bonne source de mangulation pour être phonétiquement créatif.
01:40:05 <boily> plein de langues dans le monde sont débalancées. c'est pas très feng shui.
01:40:39 <boily> d'un bord t'as le croate, qui est juste aberrant à mon avis, pis de l'autre t'avais c't'affaire de genre de cossin vaguement pseudo-new-age.
01:40:46 <boily> aUI que ça s'appelait?
01:40:46 <quintopia> care package is away. cross your fingers.
01:41:14 <boily> quinthellopia! care package will be sent quelque part this weekend. cross any crossable extremities you may currently possess!
01:41:36 <boily> m'a continuer debord à raconter n'importe quoi.
01:41:49 <quintopia> i would love to know what all that french crap says!
01:41:58 <boily> quintopia: not important :P
01:42:08 <boily> it's only there for shachafscrolling :D
01:42:19 <boily> also, not sure Google Translate likes me...
01:42:45 <boily> c'est comme les fois où oerjan se met à écrire en dialecte norvégien inusité. GT en arrache une shot à chaque fois...
01:42:59 <boily> je pense que dans les langues sérieuses, le support du japonais est le plus nul à chier.
01:43:15 <quintopia> i still want to know. it seems interesting.
01:43:18 <boily> tsé veut dire, t'as des particules pour tagguer les bouttes de phrases! tu peux pas te tromper!
01:43:33 <boily> quintopia: ok, let's translate!
01:44:04 <boily> “good, hoping that you're able to display letters in latin-1”
01:44:20 <quintopia> i'm guessing "tse veut dire" means roughly "y'know"?
01:44:22 <boily> “just about everybody today can communicate this way”
01:45:16 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a parody of Creative Commons? e.g. Annihilative Commons?
01:45:20 <boily> “y'know, not too difficult. a few é with some à mixed in, with a ç if you're unlucky. it's true you can see diæresises, but it only happens in corn (maïs) and during Christmas (Noël).”
01:45:52 <boily> “that reminds me of that time I was stuck pronouncing unpossible words. was it Georgian that time?”
01:46:11 <boily> “lots of world languages are imbalanced. that's not really feng shui.”
01:46:54 <boily> “on one hand you have Croatian, which is just abhorrent in my opinion, and on the other hand you had that gizmotic thingie vaguely pseudo-new-age.”
01:47:03 <boily> “aUI it was called?”
01:47:29 <boily> “[untranslatable] to tell ramblings.”
01:48:09 <boily> “that's like the times where oerjan starts writing in unusual Norwegian dialect. GT [untranslatable] every time...”
01:48:09 <b_jonas> boily: wait, you left out the part about too few vowels (in georgian I think)
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01:48:44 <quintopia> boily: are you just copypastaing? i feel like a human should never have [untranslatable]
01:49:11 <boily> “I thing that in [GT's] serious languages, Japanese support is the absolute worst” (exact wording is colloquial and vulgar)
01:49:38 <boily> ”y'know, you've got particles for tagging sentence fragments! you can't get lost!”
01:50:40 <quintopia> what might en arrache une shot be?
01:51:40 <boily> to experience trouble? to hardly manage by? to get it done by the seat of your pants, but not even that?
01:53:11 <quintopia> `le/rn steam sale/When money is heated to such high temperatures it evaporates and then condenses into games you will never play.
01:53:30 <quintopia> to get it done with some difficulty? to struggle through?
01:54:46 <shachaf> oerjan: Can you believe we used to not have le/rn?
01:54:58 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
01:55:03 <HackEgo> `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
01:55:11 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
01:56:01 <boily> quintopia: something like that.
01:56:57 <oerjan> <quintopia> boily: are you just copypastaing? i feel like a human should never have [untranslatable] <-- perhaps boily is secretly a super-happy alien
01:57:57 <boily> again, I'm not a squirrel!
01:58:35 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Can you believe we used to not have le/rn? <-- you mean when people actually put the key in the wisdom?
01:58:55 <quintopia> oerjan: frankly, i always thought the super-happies had the superior society. Even though I'm not a huge fan of babykilling I always found the "bad ending" somehow more satisfying.
01:58:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, that wouldn't have worked for steam sale anyway.
01:59:45 <oerjan> `slwd steam sale//s/./A steam sale is w/
01:59:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/steam sale//A steam sale is when money is heated to such high temperatures it evaporates and then condenses into games you will never play.
02:00:05 <shachaf> oerjan: I mean that `learn wouldn't have worked.
02:01:21 <\oren\> YAAAAAAY I sucessfully got into orbit and returned with my first SSTO
02:01:44 * boily WATCHES OERJAN OKAY
02:02:11 <quintopia> boily: what is the relationship between auberges and aubergines?
02:03:03 <oerjan> quintopia: i'm just wondering what kind of mess would evolve as the super-happies keep meeting more and more alien societies... eventually some truly irreconcilable value systems seem inevitable.
02:03:20 <\oren\> I made a plane that can fly into orbit, return and land at the space center runway, thus only taking the cost of fuel.
02:03:40 <boily> quintopia: the first is an inn, the latter an auberginn.
02:04:01 * boily autmapoles himself in abject disgust. 0.25 shachafs.
02:04:17 <oerjan> boily: YOU CAN STOP WATCHING NOW
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02:07:13 <quintopia> boily: huh. i thought maybe eggplants only grew at inns
02:07:40 <boily> auberge: Du moyen français alberge, de l’ancien occitan alberga, altération de l’ancien bas vieux-francique *heriberga « loge des soldats, caserne » (cf. néerlandais herberg), apparenté à l'allemand Herberge, à l'anglais harbor « havre, darce ».
02:07:59 <boily> aubergine: Du catalan albergínia, de l’arabe andalou baḏinǧána, celui-ci de l’arabe باذنجان, bādiljān, originaire du persan بادنجان, bātingān, probablement du sanskrit वातिगगम, vātigagama.
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02:08:25 <quintopia> oerjan: assuming there are more andf more alien societies...but how much more irreconcilable can you get than "the thing you consider the most good in the world is the thing we consider right up among the most appalling"?
02:09:32 <boily> quintopia: seems that the two concepts are orthogonal. one's germanic, the other sanskrit.
02:09:39 <quintopia> i feel like they'd figure out a way to reconcile any differences; they have the technology!
02:11:43 <boily> I'm growing a plant this year. there's already one! still small, but it's going to be tasty! :D
02:14:05 <quintopia> i wonder if steam will mail me if an already discounted game goes on a daily sale
02:15:21 <HackEgo> Cooked finely chopped \ 2 c Water \ 1/4 c Cooked chile \ 1 ds Salt \ 1/4 ts Ground cinnamon \ 1 ts Salt \ 2 ts Salt \ 1 1/2 ts Sugar \ 6 oz Bouillon shredded \ 4 Eggs, beaten \ 1 c Dark tomato sheets \ 1 c Granulateds sugar, sliced \ 1 ts Sugar \ \ MMMMM----------------------------CRUST------------------------------ \ 2 ts Worcest
02:15:53 <HackEgo> pn Salt \ 1 ts Cayenne pepper \ Salt \ 2 tb Flour \ 1/2 c Sugar \ 2 ts Salt \ 2 pk Yeast \ 1 lg Onion, chopped \ Salt and pepper \ And seeded and drained \ 2 tb Lemon juice \ And chopped \ Freshly ground black pepper \ Salt and pepper \ Salt \ --freshly ground black pepper \ 1/4 ts Cayenne \ 1 dl Basil \ 4 tb Butter or margari
02:16:33 <quintopia> suddenly predictwise is heavily betting that the brexit will happen. looks like it could be one big bettor? http://predictwise.com/politics/uk-politics
02:16:54 <boily> b_jonas: is that some kind of fungot recipe generator?
02:17:33 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
02:19:33 <boily> fungot recpie generator it is ^^
02:29:39 <boily> yup, time to hit the sack.
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03:55:57 <\oren\> GBP on track for nosedive!
04:09:14 <pikhq> So... Is now the time to short GBP hard?
04:11:40 <shachaf> Do you have nonpublic information?
04:12:39 <pikhq> Hence my odds of doing better than the markets as a whole are... negligible.
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04:19:47 <oerjan> it was pretty much 99% spam at the end.
04:20:14 <oerjan> (not just because there was so much spam but because there was so little real posting)
04:20:44 <oerjan> there also, before that, used to be a mailing list.
04:24:58 <tswett> oerjan: when was the forum put online?
04:25:38 <HackEgo> oiling water and cherries and each of the heat as order \ cooking. Bake at 350 degrees for 5 to 5 minutes. Beat the peas, and chopped onions \ and the cheese chopped onions. Add the bay leaf, salt, and cinnamon \ color. Pour over medium-high heat. \ \ Serve with a cups buttered 1 inch cubes. remove from heat, and refrigerate. \ \ For a pie
04:27:44 <\oren\> Trying to land a refueling station on Minmus
04:54:35 <hppavilion[1]> Whoo! I got an F and can thus play the privilege card!
05:02:26 <\oren\> Sterling falls below 1.35 USD
05:02:41 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: on wat?
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05:12:43 <Sgeo_> If I understand correctly, this means tourism there should be cheap, right?
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05:16:44 <\oren\> i dunno which test you went with though
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05:20:26 <HackEgo> l, combine the baking soda \ and the flour to the mayo. \ \ Spread the filled steaks, cake container and paper over hot water, and place the spinach \ and the garlic are electric mixer until dough is a few \ soft. Cover the fruit before serving. In a medium saucepan, combine all the \ oil in a preheated oven for about 15 minutes. \ \ Add
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05:32:38 <Cale> http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBPUSD:CUR
05:32:47 <oerjan> . o O ( some people in scotland are going to regret their previous vote )
05:33:07 <pikhq> We can bet on a new referendum in Scotland soon.
05:33:40 <pikhq> Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium...
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05:40:59 <Cale> https://www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd -- better graph
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06:07:49 <b_jonas> I guess we'll have to relearn wisdom/brexit
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06:38:26 <HackEgo> brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
06:43:03 <\oren\> what happens if you . /dev/null?
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06:58:03 <zzo38> I have read about Brexit in newspaper recently and now found an article about Brexit also in Wikipedia
06:59:58 <zzo38> (I just searched for "Brexit" on Wikipedia and it redirected to the correct article, so it was easy to find)
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07:55:12 <int-e> if brexit were a Posix function, what would it do?
08:01:00 <lifthrasiir> int-e: badass really exit, more severe version of _exit
08:02:29 <shachaf> exits the parent process as well
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08:09:52 <shachaf> saying hi every time you join is not mandatory
08:10:14 <shachaf> especially when you join many times every day
08:20:40 <int-e> oh, more wonderful news https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/federal-court-fourth-amendment-does-not-protect-your-home-computer
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08:26:43 <shachaf> int-e: Is that amendment relevant to you?
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08:43:35 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>=~y/ \t/ /sr;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
08:52:55 <HackEgo> brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
09:13:36 <shachaf> Taneb: hugs are available in california hth
09:15:02 <fizzie> I'm feeling unwelcome due to that 'xit.
09:15:24 <fizzie> Also I hear people in Finland are already calling for a Fixit.
09:20:14 <\oren\> ok now that shortening is just absurd
09:20:57 <shachaf> fizzie: but it ain't broken
09:21:32 <fizzie> That's not reason not to fixit.
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10:22:38 <asie> fizzie: Fixit? I heard Finish
10:22:52 <asie> gamemanj: Huh.
10:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> Whoa, the UK has a thing called "The Shadow Cabinet"
10:24:40 <int-e> shachaf: the amendment doesn't affect me directly... but such ideas are easily spread and adapted to other legal frameworks.
10:25:36 <int-e> b_jonas: part of the reason I asked is that that wisdom entry doesn't really satisfy me
10:34:28 <^v> literally every channel is going crazy with brexxit
10:37:13 <int-e> ^v-- # abuse of "literally"
10:43:07 <gamemanj> brexit's driving the world insane
10:46:23 <zzo38> What will you then do with those devices?
10:47:35 * gamemanj gets out a sheet marked "KNOWLEDGE INFORMATION SHEET ID 'zzo38'", goes to a particular row, and checks the box marked "Does not know"
10:48:58 <int-e> https://www.reddit.com/r/steinsgate/comments/3h2prn/can_someone_explain_to_me_how_the_microwave_o/ seems relevant
10:48:59 <hppavilion[1]> "Obama Administration Orders Apple to Ignore the Laws of Math"
10:49:26 <int-e> @google microwave crt phone
10:49:28 <lambdabot> http://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/21064/how-does-the-steinsgate-phone-microwave-work
10:49:28 <lambdabot> Title: How does the Steins;Gate phone microwave work? - Anime & Manga Stack Exchange
10:50:38 * int-e is more surprised to learn that there is an anime stackexchange than about the fact that google made sense of this combination of keywords :P
10:50:57 <gamemanj> actually that is very surprising
10:54:55 <Melvar> Huh. From the unicode 9.0 update: “An uppercase Latin letter was added, U+A7AE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SMALL CAPITAL I, forming a case pair with an existing lowercase letter, U+026A LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL I, for which a different uppercase counterpart had been recommended, but not formally mapped, prior to Unicode 9.0.”
10:55:24 <Melvar> I wish I knew the reasoning there.
10:55:48 <HackEgo> [U+0055 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A] [U+0037 DIGIT SEVEN] [U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A] [U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E]
10:55:55 <HackEgo> [U+0055 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0032 DIGIT TWO] [U+0036 DIGIT SIX] [U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A]
10:56:27 <HackEgo> U+026A LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL I \ UTF-8: c9 aa UTF-16BE: 026a Decimal: ɪ \ ɪ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A7AE - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ea 9e ae UTF-16BE: a7ae Decimal: Ɪ \ Ɪ (Ɪ) \ Uppercase: U+A7AE \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
10:58:50 <Melvar> Oh, here we go. The African Reference Alphabet uses ɪ as a separate letter, which needs an uppercase form (distinguished from I by always having crossbars).
10:59:46 <Melvar> Though the graphical distinction isn’t necessary, really; it suffices that it is semantically separate and that it needs to toLower to ɪ.
11:03:47 <Melvar> Hm. Apparently only the 1978 version had that, while the 1982 revision replaced it with Latin Iota (Ɩ, ɩ).
11:03:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47245&oldid=47017 * 163.116.6.90 * (+3) Fixed typo : 3 occurences of "centred" instead of "centered"
11:04:38 <Melvar> That’s not a typo, that’s commonwealth spelling, I’m pretty sure. <ω<
11:04:38 <gamemanj> what's wrong with "centred"...?
11:11:00 <fizzie> asie: The "fixit" name was independently discovered by myself, but I afterwards learned people had been using it. I'm sure there's alternatives as well.
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11:37:37 <FireFly> Some tweet suggested "Finish"
11:41:15 <izabera> i'm playing with fuse, how do i keep a fd open to a real file outside my fs?
11:41:54 <izabera> from my open i'm assigning the fd to fuse_file_info->fh
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11:59:00 <izabera> oh i had to set the size apparently
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12:13:53 <izabera> ok so: if i create a regular file, i can't set 0 as its size and can't read past its size in any way
12:14:24 <izabera> if i create a fifo, write is never performed and all i get is the same data i wrote on it
12:15:14 <izabera> block/character devices, i can't open them with a simple redirection in bash with a non root user
12:15:28 <izabera> and i can never open a socket with a redirection in bash
12:16:51 <izabera> is there a way to simulate something like /dev/urandom with fuse? generating data when read is performed
12:18:19 <izabera> mmh, i can't even open block/character devices with root...
12:18:23 <izabera> must be doing something wrong
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12:24:02 <hppavilion[1]> Hah! A company banning their employees from sending encrypted email!
12:24:04 <izabera> ah i see, fuse won't let me create block devices at all, and i need special options to create character devices
12:24:11 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: what company?
12:24:15 <hppavilion[1]> Sounds like Donald Knuth's new place of employment
12:24:29 <hppavilion[1]> London's Southwark Council, it looks like? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/18/the_2001_daftas_most_pc/
12:27:01 <gamemanj> izabera: for block devices, try "abuse", though it doesn't seem to be a commonly compiled module...
12:28:18 <gamemanj> (this: https://lwn.net/Articles/343514/ , if it's even in the kernel...)
12:29:05 <gamemanj> there's also this solution which apparently just uses a network-block-device loopback: https://github.com/acozzette/BUSE
12:29:22 <hppavilion[1]> If I find that a set of rules contains a contradiction, can I use the principle of asplosion to do anything I want?
12:31:05 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Can I at least be a massive pain in the ass?
12:31:12 <izabera> they all require moar modules :(
12:31:38 <gamemanj> Well, yes, but NBD is one you're likely to have
12:31:46 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: moar modules are a rather interesting area of abstract algebra
12:32:30 <Melvar> hppavilion[1]: Is everything random invented by Taneb?
12:33:11 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
12:33:34 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
12:34:24 <HackEgo> 367) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. \ 628) <oklopol> i don't lie, i tell stories <oklopol> there's no difference <oklopol> *a \ 866) <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I like how the Victorians hadn't quite figured out you were meant to name books something s
12:34:25 <gamemanj> ...wait, Taneb invented the BBC? That explains why the news is always full of sad events with the occasional puppy...
12:34:54 <HackEgo> If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
12:35:21 <gamemanj> error ERR_SUCCESS : contradiction! error
12:36:09 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder:Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. \ wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation,
12:36:24 <HackEgo> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets and tiny elfs. Taneb invented it.
12:36:43 <gamemanj> one day the "print text for error code" routine should be rewritten to make the success code return "Calling code cannot tell difference between error and success. If this is a message box, use a debugger to hotpatch the code so this doesn't occur again."
12:36:44 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/a:A is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. \ wisdom/Å:Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. \ wisdom/b:
12:37:16 <gamemanj> oh, I thought Å was the point of origin
12:37:21 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/bdsm:BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. \ wisdom/fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is prova
12:37:52 <gamemanj> given the usual reliability of wisdom, that means Taneb did invent it
12:38:25 <Melvar> `? fundamental theorem of taneb
12:38:28 <HackEgo> The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent.
12:39:19 <gamemanj> (S covers all strings, T exists and covers all strings not in S, but S covers all strings, so thus T cannot exist)
12:40:25 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder \ wisdom/bbc \ wisdom/bdsm \ wisdom/bogosort \ wisdom/boxmodel \ wisdom/chu space \ wisdom/ci \ wisdom/costume \ wisdom/curry's paradox \ wisdom/deniability \ wisdom/d-module \ wisdom/ehird \ wisdom
12:42:11 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
12:42:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/tanebgrep
12:42:56 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
12:43:17 <HackEgo> Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
12:44:14 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
12:45:15 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
12:46:20 <hppavilion[1]> Which, I assume, are discrete, tiled, and minecrafty- almost certainly wrong, but I assume it
12:46:56 <hppavilion[1]> Then doesn't taxicab geometry say that going straight from point a to point b is always the same distance as going orthagonally to point b's x then to its y?
12:48:08 <gamemanj> Only if you're able to move in single adjacent steps.
12:48:50 <Melvar> Well, that assumes specifically that the universe is anisotropic. It kinda looks like division into planck lengths would imply that, but it may not. Who knows how counterintuitive things get at small scales.
12:48:57 <gamemanj> If working in something like the Moore neighborhood, it is quicker to take a step diagonally than west-then-north or north-then-west.
13:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> CHALLENGE: Find the most racist/sexist/homophobic/biphobic/transphobic/egalitarian/ableist/ageist/islamaphobic/anything else single proper sentence possible
13:16:18 <gamemanj> ANSWER: hppavilion[1] is secretly Donald Trump, judging by the question this sentence answers.
13:16:48 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4146
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13:28:25 <Koen__> did I win? did I spot the intruder?
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13:41:39 <izabera> \oren\: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2492 add these!
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13:46:14 <HackEgo> ham//Ham is a kind of meat. It is popular in Hexham, among other places.
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13:51:24 <Taneb> I can confirm, I had a ham sandwich in Hexham today
13:53:44 <gamemanj> hexhexhexhex/hex/hexhamhexhex/hexhamhexhex/hamhamham
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14:36:32 <HackEgo> imperative language//Imperative languages tell you what to do.
14:36:33 <HackEgo> Death's Shadow \ B \ Creature -- Avatar \ 13/13 \ Death's Shadow gets -X/-X, where X is your life total. \ WWK-R
14:38:29 <gamemanj> so, the gist of it is, imperative languages are mean
14:39:10 <gamemanj> and Death's Shadow is not cuddly
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14:43:58 <myname> that would actually be a nice card for hearthstone
14:49:27 <Melvar> So, it gets stronger the closer to death you are? Neat!
14:51:41 <b_jonas> yes, and Diminish kills it
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15:56:13 <myname> the nice thing about it in hearthstone would be that you actually don't want to get it silenced
16:21:54 <boily> mynamello. silenced as in people not talking, or like no sound effects?
16:30:56 <Melvar> It’s funny how “silence(d)” in so many games refers to being unable to cast spells or certain spells, including some that do not show the spell having any verbal component.
16:35:32 <myname> silencing in hearthstone removes any special effect of a minion
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16:55:16 <Melvar> So in this case, wouldn’t you *want* it silenced, because that’d remove the debuff?
16:55:59 <myname> well, your opponent won't silence it, yes
16:56:21 <myname> usually you silence enemy minions to get rid of annoying effect
16:57:05 <Melvar> Ah, you meant you don’t want to silence your *enemy’s*. Yeah.
17:00:53 <\oren\> Uh-oh what if Nexit is next?
17:01:20 <\oren\> It sounds like a allergy medication
17:08:11 <gamemanj> "major clothing store leaving EU"
17:08:37 <gamemanj> "thousands of buy-happy shoppers infuriated"
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17:16:24 <int-e> gamemanj: the obvious solution is to found an EU subsidiary. Luxembourg is popular for tax reasons...
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17:18:16 <int-e> oh xkcd, I think Randall overestimates the impact of tinyurl... since twitter has its own URL shortener.
17:21:59 <HackEgo> brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
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17:33:32 <moon__> anyone know a free VM (not virtualbox)?
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17:43:27 <int-e> (kvm borrows from qemu but the hypervisor should be its own? I don't know)
17:44:13 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtualization_software lists licenses too
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17:55:17 <moon__> hbot will be booted again soon
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18:28:09 <fizzie> \oren\: Oh no! What sort of resin did he turn into?
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18:29:10 <fizzie> There's a brand of headache medication sold in Finland called "Dexit".
18:29:36 <fizzie> I guess that'd be the Danish one.
18:29:45 <moon__> hbot is being recovered
18:30:20 <fizzie> They have a very annoying ad jingle that goes approximately "dexit, dexit, headache's exit".
18:30:54 <fizzie> Except when they rebranded it to cover more aches and pains than just headaches, they just removed the word "head", but kept the timing and the rest in place.
18:31:24 <fizzie> So it turned into "Dexit, Dexit, ...ache's exit" (the possessive there works better in Finnish), with a really awkward prosody.
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18:44:59 <\oren\> < int-e> kvm xen dosemu <-- I was so sure that was you speaking a foreign language...
18:46:32 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
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18:50:08 * boily mentions moon__. mhelloon__.
18:50:14 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
18:50:40 <gamemanj> I think moon__'s idea may result in spammy results...
18:50:43 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
18:50:51 <gamemanj> Especially if people talk about moon.
18:50:54 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
18:51:07 <gamemanj> you have got to be kidding me, it doesn't check for the "__"
18:52:33 <boily> I suggest "mhelloon"
18:52:36 <moon__> Dont make me add that to the catch
18:53:24 <gamemanj> (meanwhile, looking at a dictionary: ..."moon", in the sense of "space station"... what.)
18:53:58 <gamemanj> (oh, apparently the correct word was lunra)
18:55:47 <moon__> mention me and the moon again
18:55:56 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
18:56:01 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
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18:56:36 * boily mapoles moon__ back into the chännel
18:56:47 * moon__ uses magic! *Poof!* moon_ will now say this when someone mentions him after a random interval
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19:03:21 <\oren\> Uh.. If I was to add a script to my irssi, I would make it do something *useful*
19:03:43 <\oren\> (Or at least it would interpret an esolang)
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19:06:55 <boily> maybe moon__ should be like myndzi and have little dancing stick figures?
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19:58:19 <oren> Hmm it would be nice (horrible) if there was a bot that scanned for memetic phrases and memeified them
19:58:37 <oren> Memeified all the things!
19:59:28 <oren> < memebot> http://www.9gag.com/djasdhajkshdjkh
20:00:06 <Etaoin> Hmm it would be nice (horrible) if there was a bot that scanned for cancer and spammed it
20:00:21 <oren> I heard you like memes so we put a meme in your meme so you can meme while you meme
20:02:57 <Etaoin> oerjan, that's a really neat formula! I'll save that somewhere. I take it this comes from euler's identity as so many things do?
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20:35:12 -!- tswett has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidarity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse (always safe, sane and consensual), and font forging | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
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21:33:21 <HackEgo> oic//OIC, OIC means Oh I see.
21:33:21 <HackEgo> footnote 8//Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
21:33:21 <HackEgo> post-turing machine//A post-Turing machine is a machine from the post-Turing era.
21:33:40 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: What's share/tanebgrep for?
21:36:37 <shachaf> But anyone can grep for taneb anyway.
21:36:47 <shachaf> Why do you need it in the hg history?
21:36:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I outputted a grep there then opened it on codu so I could see the full file
21:37:00 <Taneb> I'd rather you didn't grep for me, it's a bit of an invasion of privacy
21:37:11 <shachaf> OK, so it was a pseudo-paste.
21:37:22 <shachaf> I don't think share/ is a good place for that.
21:37:27 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ then \ true \ else \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ fi
21:37:33 <shachaf> Better to put it in paste/.
21:38:33 <shachaf> Taneb: Is that actually true?
21:39:15 <Taneb> It's more that every now and then I get pinged a few dozen times even though no-one particularly wants my input on anything
21:40:26 <shachaf> I guess all the Tanebventions ping you.
21:40:54 <shachaf> Of course I was actually addressing you yesterday.
21:44:52 <coppro> was Taneb invented by Taneb?
21:45:04 <HackEgo> The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
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21:59:52 <shachaf> Weren't you in London at one point?
22:00:45 <Taneb> For one night, in December
22:01:11 <Taneb> I attended a workshop on software verification at ICL
22:01:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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22:04:05 <int-e> Yay, Isabelle believes me that CL (the SKI one) is confluent.
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22:35:44 <Taneb> int-e, I've been meaning to learn Isabelle
22:42:18 <int-e> Hmm. There's a lot of documentation at http://isabelle.in.tum.de/documentation.html and there's a (fairly inactive, but populated with a few helpful people) #isabelle on Freenode.
23:00:52 <int-e> That said it's probably hard to pick up Isabelle all by oneself... at work I have a number of colleagues who are also using Isabelle, which is tremendously helpful. Workshops with Isabelle tutorials may also help.
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23:16:59 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> In a 4D universe, would we have 2D roads? <-- if you consider 4d to include relativistic spacetime, we already do hth
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23:33:40 <\oren\> Roads are technically 3d actually
23:34:15 <\oren\> They have width and a maximum vertical clearance
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23:39:02 <\oren\> I found out ksp has a official irc channel
23:41:05 <oerjan> \oren\: but those are tiny dimensions. see string theory.
23:42:13 <oerjan> well if you've so far _not_ googled things, i'm still impressed :P
23:42:52 <boily> it's more fun to guess without any tools :D
23:43:09 <oerjan> (hm i guess i should confess i did that with your mayan one yesterday. and i _still_ almost didn't find it.)
23:43:34 <oerjan> anyway, wrong continent.
23:44:37 <oerjan> i think my ability to guess languages like that is pretty small for anything non-european.
23:45:17 <boily> yolŋu? (that one I'm googling for sources...)
23:45:17 <oerjan> perhaps except a few asian ones.
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23:47:35 <oerjan> "The concept of 'Hello' does not exist in Yolngu,"
23:47:37 <oerjan> hence most use the English 'hello,' or 'hey'
23:48:17 <boily> a language without helloes. nice find!
23:51:44 <oerjan> however, no, but right family!
23:52:05 <shachaf> did you know that the english have over 200 words for hello
23:55:24 <oerjan> yo shachaf, that's silly, obviously it's just a handful of roots that are being portmanteaued into the rest.
23:56:26 <HackEgo> Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:57:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'helloily': helloily is hella oily hth
23:58:08 <shachaf> `le/rn Betty Crocker/Betty Crocker is a notorious gambler.
00:01:08 <boily> scowchaf? shascow?
00:01:35 <oerjan> boily: to repeat, it's not yolŋu, but the same family.
00:03:27 <boily> . o O ( shoachoaf sounds strangely Bavarian... )
00:03:48 <HackEgo> møøse//Møøse is Norwegian for moss.
00:03:57 <HackEgo> nobody//Nobody killed the cyclops Polyphemos after he tried to eat a shipful of sailors, and this perceived injustice made Poseidon so mad he swore vengeance at him and the gods couldn't calm him down for ten years.
00:04:09 <HackEgo> rhenium//Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring.
00:06:59 <quintopia> did oerjans wisdom once read future expert in lazy computation?
00:08:32 <oerjan> `learn Odysseus was a Greek nobody, who somehow got famous for horsing around.
00:08:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'odysseu': Odysseus was a Greek nobody, who somehow got famous for horsing around.
00:08:50 <shachaf> oerjan: Aren't you an expert in past computation?
00:09:00 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `odysseu': No such file or directory
00:09:19 <oerjan> shachaf: well given i haven't really programmed for ages, sounds about right
00:09:25 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/odysseu{,s}
00:09:46 <shachaf> oerjan: And you're not American anyway.
00:09:54 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/ViHGGeg.png
00:10:58 <oerjan> washington, er, maybe jefferson, or was he later? some adams guy maybe.
00:11:27 <izabera> made a small http server in bash http://arin.ga:8080/
00:11:31 <boily> there's a Garfield in there, innit?
00:11:33 <izabera> http://arin.ga:8080/srv source is here
00:11:43 <oerjan> i cannot name the first four norwegian kings (medieval, we haven't had four modern ones yet) in order either.
00:12:11 <oerjan> boily: in the first four?
00:12:33 <boily> izabellora. as if we were going to be hacking you :P
00:12:56 <izabera> if someone can, they're in this chan
00:13:10 <boily> oerjan: darn. he was the 20th.
00:13:26 <boily> `addquote <izabera> if someone can, they're in this chan
00:13:29 <HackEgo> 1284) <izabera> if someone can, they're in this chan
00:14:02 <izabera> also nobody else knows it exists
00:15:42 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/iRy6j43.png
00:17:19 <oerjan> conclusion: mr machines see the future hth
00:18:40 <oerjan> `addquote <Ken M> If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time :(
00:18:42 <HackEgo> 1285) <Ken M> If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time :(
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00:21:33 <izabera> irc is the only medium where brexit isn't on topic
00:26:41 <shachaf> oerjan: now i'm just reading ken ms
00:26:44 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/G4uwvB3.png
00:28:44 <shachaf> https://i.imgur.com/5oQV7rN.png
00:30:05 * oerjan thinks he's reached his ken m quota
00:35:29 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/mOvuYhY.png http://i.imgur.com/bz6BAdb.png http://i.imgur.com/N6aImsQ.png
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00:48:54 * oerjan is doing some ancient catching up instead http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast015.html
00:53:14 <HackEgo> Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:53:26 <shachaf> That wisdom entry has too many adjectives.
00:53:30 <shachaf> No room to add more adjectives.
00:53:33 <oerjan> <\oren\> Finnxit <-- surely one should use the proper name and say Suxit hth
00:54:27 <izabera> it's funny because politics
00:54:49 <shachaf> fizzie: can you confirm/deny twh
00:54:57 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Sat Jun 25 00:54:57 2016
01:07:12 <quintopia> Ken M is apparently the best troll ever. how can we aspire to such greatness?
01:08:01 <\oren\> EU got 1GB of free space.
01:08:52 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] grep has a -r option hth
01:10:12 <HackEgo> brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
01:11:21 <oerjan> `learn brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
01:11:21 <quintopia> Lets talk about bitcoin...and how thanks to certain political events not to be mentioned i just may have enough to make that purchase...
01:11:24 <HackEgo> Relearned 'brexit': brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
01:16:15 <boily> bitcoin is still alive?
01:17:23 <quintopia> https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4pmrpt/bitcoin_price_be_like/
01:17:23 <shachaf> quintopia: what, are you liquidating your britcoin position?
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01:26:17 <HackEgo> abstract nonsense//We would have an explanation of abstract nonsense here, but it fled into a diagram and we haven't been able to chase it. We will try again once we find an abstract machete.
01:26:35 <HackEgo> john//John is not Hziulquoigmnzhah of Cykranosh, the dread spawn of Cxaxukluth, according to http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4072
01:26:41 <HackEgo> shachaf//shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
01:27:19 <shachaf> HackEgo: nepeta leijon is dead
01:27:33 <HackEgo> universe//A universe is a poem in one stanza.
01:29:36 <HackEgo> derangement//"Green tandem" is a derangement of "derangement".
01:35:04 <HackEgo> burlesque//Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque)
01:37:19 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/derangement
01:41:44 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/derangement//s/"\([^"]*\)"\([^"]*\)"\([^"]*\)"/"\3"\2"\1"/
01:41:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/derangement//"derangement" is a derangement of "Green tandem".
01:42:10 <HackEgo> wisdom/derangement//"derangement" is a derangement of "green tandem".
02:06:10 <oerjan> @tell Etaoin You probably _can_ get it from the euler identity somehow, but it seems easier to me to get _both_ from the Taylor power series for exp, sin and cos. Well, it all gets a bit circular so there are probably several choices for how to bootstrap the definitions.
02:07:03 <shachaf> oerjan: another unintentional pun? tdnh
02:07:54 <oerjan> @tell etaoin Hm wait, euler identity seems a little weak. You want at least Euler's formula.
02:08:10 <oerjan> shachaf: well at least i noticed it before you said it.
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02:12:23 <\oren\> why does /who \oren\ not say orenwatson.be?
02:12:40 <\oren\> oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com <-- what's this crap
02:13:33 <shachaf> \oren\: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/reverse-dns-for-ec2s-elastic-ip-addresses/ hth
02:14:25 <shachaf> You could just get a cloak, though.
02:14:52 <\oren\> like, the clothing? I have one.
02:15:04 <lambdabot> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Cloaks
02:15:28 <boily> I could use a cloak... boily@chicken.chicken.chicken
02:16:21 <shachaf> Maybe if you get Chicken Scheme to provide IRC cloaks.
02:17:14 <oerjan> @tell etaoin It's pretty direct from that + conjugation, actually.
02:17:37 <oerjan> . o O ( TRIPLICATE CHICKEN )
02:31:14 * boily snatches the departicken word from oerjan. thanks!
02:31:46 <\oren\> ok well we'll see if this form does anything...
02:34:20 <boily> he\\oren\. what colour is your cloak?
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02:37:43 <hppavilion[2]> It's interesting that https://faq.ssa.gov/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=34019&_referrer= (which is a rather shitty URL) doesn't have a "What the hell is social security" entry
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02:38:55 <hppavilion[2]> https://www.cuidadodesalud.gov/es/ is the spanish healthcare.gov. One must wonder why they need the /es/
02:42:13 <\oren\> probably as opposed to catalan?
02:43:51 <pikhq> hppavilion[2]: As opposed to /en/.
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02:45:06 <quintopia> boily: having a BiG fRiDaY nIgHt Eh?
02:45:15 <coppro> I think he's asking why it's the default
02:45:31 <coppro> boily: does your cloak billow?
02:47:28 <boily> quintopia: quiet night here :D
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02:48:10 <boily> (at least I downed a few ounces of québécois gin. my patriotic gland is atrophied, and my wild party days are over...)
02:48:22 <boily> coppro: I don't have any cloaks yet :(
02:50:05 <quintopia> boily: howzabouta quick game of sth
02:51:43 <boily> do you have anything 1v1 that can be hooked up?
02:54:53 <boily> not sure I can stand something coordinated atm. a little bit too sloshed >_>'...
02:55:28 <boily> tomorrow night I'll borderlands with ya.
02:55:41 <boily> for now, time to express a pillow.
02:55:43 <coppro> boily: did you replace your patriotic gland with alcohol?
02:55:53 <boily> <_<;;... >_>.......
02:56:01 * boily whistles tunelessly
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08:53:25 <int-e> `` dc <<<11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+P11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111P11+11+11+11+P11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111P111+1+1+1+P11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+P11+11+11+P
08:53:52 <HackEgo> dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ Hello, world!
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09:25:36 <Cale> `` dc <<<"11 11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11 11+11+11+111+1+P11 11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11 11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111P11 11+11+11+P11 11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P111P111 1+1+1+P11 11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+P11 11+11+11+11+11+11+11+11+1+P11 11+11+P"
09:26:04 <int-e> Cale: there's a reason for the stack overflows: the idea was to use as few distinct characters as possible
09:26:47 <int-e> (I'm going through old files and this turned up)
09:29:56 <Cale> `` dc <<<11111111111111111111111111111Zp
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09:34:21 <int-e> true, that'll work.
09:35:07 <int-e> in an idealized version of dc, zzzz...zzzzP will work
09:35:38 <int-e> (with 3179672657468351522 z-s in a row... okay, that can be shortened quite a bit)
09:38:04 <Cale> oh, whoa, how did the code for e get so mangled there...
09:38:32 <lifthrasiir> `` python -c 's="Hello, world!\n"; print "".join((ord(d)-ord(c))%256*"z"+"zP" for c,d in zip("\0"+s, s))' | dc
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09:39:40 <lifthrasiir> but it would take much less z's than 3179672657468351522
09:41:45 <lifthrasiir> int-e: printing 0x48, 0x65, 0x65, 0x6c, 0x2c20, 0x776f, 0x726c64, then... hmm, the final part is a bit off.
09:42:53 <int-e> H/e/l/l/o/, /wo/rld!/ ends up with 1919706161 characters
09:43:27 <lifthrasiir> int-e: let's cheat and use H/e/l/l/o/, /Wo/rl/d!\n instead :)
09:47:16 <int-e> dropping the comma may be the nicer cheat, and that allows H/e/l/l/o/ w/or/ld!/ with 7103537 characters. you should get 6562074, I think?
09:47:45 <int-e> oh I'm counting the Ps, too, but you need an extra z for each P anyway.
09:53:51 <lifthrasiir> the final number to print + 1 + number of characters
09:54:14 <int-e> lifthrasiir: no, final number + 2 * number of prints
09:54:29 <gamemanj> why, exactly, does "hello world" in whatever language this is take up kilobytes?
09:55:00 <lifthrasiir> int-e was doing it with the smallest number of unique bytes
09:55:55 <lifthrasiir> int-e: in any case zP approach is very viable, I guess
10:07:55 <Cale> What if we were to allow ourselves the alphabet "1d+P", how short could we make the program? There's a lot of room for common subexpression elimination.
10:09:31 <int-e> `` dc <<<zzzzzzzzzzzzzz+z+z+++Pzzzzzzz+z++z+++Pzzzzzzz++++z++Pzzzzzz++++z++Pzzzzzz+z+++++P++z+P++z+Pzzzzzzzzzzzzzz++++++Pzzzzz+z+++++Pzzzzzzz+++++z+Pzzzzz++++z++Pzzzzz+++++z+Pz++P
10:10:11 <Cale> `` dc <<<1ddddd11ddddd+++++++++++P1d11dddddddd++++++++++P11dddddddd++++++++d1dddddddd+++++++++ddPP111P11ddd+++P1ddddddddd11d+++++++++++P1ddddddd111++++++++P111P1dd111+++PP1+P11dd++P
10:10:20 <int-e> (the alphabet z+P also gives rise to an interesting optimization problem)
10:11:06 * int-e is not printing any final newline, btw
10:11:13 <Cale> (I didn't work very hard at optimising there, just removed the most obnoxious of the duplications :)
10:13:11 <int-e> but actually I could just append zP to get it... lucky!
10:14:38 <int-e> obviously you should use a doubling approach for multiplication.
10:15:18 <int-e> so ddddd+++++ ==> d+dd++
10:16:08 <int-e> but the real waste seems to be that the no values are preserved across the P instructions
10:21:45 <shachaf> zalgo is the only Haskell program on HackEgo, I think.
10:22:06 <shachaf> I guess there's also quines/haskell. But I compiled that one into bash.
10:22:15 <int-e> looks like python to me
10:22:25 <shachaf> Oh, maybe I compiled it into Python?
10:22:29 <HackEgo> echo 'main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"'
10:27:52 <int-e> hmm, the more naive main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s=" is shorter
10:31:11 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
10:31:22 <shachaf> int-e: Feel free to improve it.
10:31:39 <HackEgo> main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"
10:31:46 <HackEgo> ./bin/zalgoverload \ ./bin/zalgoerjan \ ./bin/zalgo \ ./.hg/store/data/zalgo.d \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/zalgo.d \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/zalgoverload.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/zalgo.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/zalgo2.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/zalgoerjan.i \ ./.hg/store/data/zalgo.o.i \ ./.hg/store/data/zalgo.hi.i \ ./.hg/store/data/zalgo.i \ ./.hg/store/
10:32:14 <shachaf> I just adapted the old ap(++)show"ap(++)show"
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10:37:33 <int-e> `` ( echo 'main=putStr s>>print s'; echo 's="main=putStr s>>print s\ns="' ) > quines/haskell
10:37:43 <int-e> `cat quines/haskell
10:37:44 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s \ s="main=putStr s>>print s\ns="
10:42:09 <shachaf> Two-line quine? That's a bit scow, given how HackEgo renders newlines.
10:42:31 <shachaf> Well, I guess it's unavoidable.
10:42:33 <HackEgo> #include <stdio.h> \ char*a="#include <stdio.h>\nchar*a=\"@\";\nvoid main(){char*b=a;for(;(*a)!=0;a++){switch(*a){case '@':if(!(*b))putchar('@');for(;(*b)!=0;b++){switch(*b){case '\"':case '\\\\':putchar('\\\\');putchar(*b);break;case '\\n':putchar('\\\\');putchar('n');break;default:putchar(*b);}}break;default:putchar(*a);}}}"; \ void main(){cha
10:42:49 <int-e> `` ( echo 'main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="' ) > quines/haskell
10:44:14 <int-e> long, *void* main...
10:44:25 <shachaf> What's wrong with void main?
10:44:37 <int-e> it's only allowed in free-standing implementations
10:46:31 <shachaf> It looks like it can be defined "in some other implementation-defined manner".
10:46:41 <shachaf> I guess it's not too standard.
10:47:24 <int-e> hmm, okay, it's less strict than I recall.
10:48:01 <int-e> `` ( echo '#include <stdio.h>'; echo 'int main(){char *s="#include <stdio.h>%cint main(){char *s=%c%s%c;printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}%c";printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}' ) > quines/c
10:49:01 <gamemanj> uh, wait a sec, if that's now "int main", where's the return?
10:50:04 <shachaf> In C99 you don't need to return from main.
10:50:09 <shachaf> Kind of scow if you ask me.
10:50:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/c++: No such file or directory
10:50:33 <shachaf> please write a quine in the c++ template system twh
10:51:31 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/r /r/g' quines/c
10:52:52 <gamemanj> I'm pretty sure even learning how to use C++ templates require sacrificing a newborn program to the great Oracle of mlatu, who governs sanity and destruction. Or something.
10:53:06 <int-e> gamemanj: funny thing... the return is optional, and reaching the end of the main function is defined as producing an exit code of 0... *if* the return type is int.
10:53:23 <int-e> ("compatible with int" is the precise formulation)
10:53:52 <gamemanj> (depending on your definition of "compatible with int", this might work!)
11:08:08 <int-e> well, it's not my definition.
11:13:19 <int-e> and I'm not quite sure what the definition is... as far as I can see it allows for typedefs. (with typedef MYINT int, MYINT is compatible with int)
11:16:13 <int-e> oh also signed int and int are compatible.
11:17:10 <int-e> But unsigned int and signed int are not. Such fun.
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12:28:06 <int-e> `` dc <<<zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz+zz++Pzzzz+zz+z++P+zzz++++Pzz++zz++++Pzzz+z+zz+++++Pz+zz++Pzz+z+Pzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz+z+++P+++++Pzzzzz+z+z+++Pzz+zzz++++Pz+++++++Pzzzz++PzP
12:33:09 <int-e> `` dc <<<zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz+zz++Pzzzz+zz+z++P+zzz++++Pzz++zz++++Pzzz+z+zz+++++Pz+zz++Pzz+z+Pzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz+z+++Pz+zz+z++Pzzzz+z+++Pzzz++z++Pzzz++++P+P
12:34:10 <int-e> (That should be optimal with the restriction that each P leaves numbers 0..k on a stack of size k+1... but I expect that violating that restriction would help)
12:58:42 <int-e> `` dc <<<11dd+ddd++1+d1dd+d+++P++d1+dP1dd+dd++d+dd+P1d+dd+d+++P111d1d+d+d++PdP1dd+++PPP11dd++P
12:59:06 <int-e> `` dc <<<11dd+ddd++1+d1dd+d+++P++d1+dP1dd+dd++++dPdP111P11d+dd+P1d+dd+d+++P111d1d+d+d++PdP1dd+++PPP11dd++P
13:06:12 <int-e> `` dc <<<11d1+d+ddd++dP+1d+d++d1+Pd1d+d+d++dPddP1dd+++dP11d+dd+P1d+dd+d+++Pd1d+d+d++PdP1dd+++PPPdd++P
13:10:55 <int-e> `` dc <<<11d1+d+ddd++dP+d1dd+d+++Pd11+1+dPdPd1+P1d+dd+d+++Pd11+Pd1dd+++dP1dd+++PP1d+d++Pdd++P
13:10:57 <HackEgo> dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ Hellmvkcf`
13:20:15 <int-e> `` dc <<<11d1+d+ddd++dP+d1dd+d+++Pd11+1+dPdPd+P1d+dd+d+++Pd11+Pd1dd+++dP1dd+++PP1d+d++Pdd++P
13:20:17 <HackEgo> dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ dc: stack empty \ HellØj
13:32:42 <int-e> `` dc <<<11d1+d+ddd++dP+1d+d++d1+Pd1d+d+d++dPdP111P11d+dd+P1d+dd+d+++Pd11+P111dP1dd+++PPPdd++P
13:35:58 <int-e> Okay, that's half of Cale's program's size... perhaps that's a good place to stop.
13:36:15 <Cale> hah, nicely done
13:55:44 <int-e> (I'm also at a loss about what to try next to improve that program.)
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16:56:15 <HackEgo> xkcq//"xkcq" is worth 8 more points than "xkcd" in Scrabble, or a whopping 30 more if both are played optimally on a triple word score. Nyahhh.
16:57:13 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/xkcq
16:59:05 * boily equips his mapole with cat ears, the proceeds to mapole b_jonas for having nyaaahhhed.
17:02:58 <int-e> scrabble is too hard
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17:50:19 <izabera> zpipe.c: CLIPPER instruction trace
17:50:26 <izabera> and zpipe.c is this https://github.com/madler/zlib/blob/master/examples/zpipe.c
17:51:43 <izabera> i don't even know what a CLIPPER is
17:56:30 <gamemanj> https://github.com/file/file/blob/master/magic/Magdir/clipper
17:56:45 <gamemanj> I have no idea what this means
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17:57:26 <gamemanj> "pipe" at 4 bytes in, which zpipe.c matches,
17:57:37 <gamemanj> says that it's a CLIPPER instruction trace
17:58:09 <gamemanj> `` echo " pipe" > .tmp-clipper-instruction-trace
17:58:18 <gamemanj> `` file .tmp-clipper-instruction-trace
17:58:21 <HackEgo> .tmp-clipper-instruction-trace: CLIPPER instruction trace
17:58:23 <gamemanj> `` rm .tmp-clipper-instruction-trace
17:59:03 <gamemanj> in your case the text was "/* zpipe"
18:19:47 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: probably priority issue. contact file(1) maintainer.
18:20:09 <lifthrasiir> (I'm pretty sure that the magics do include "/*" rules for C/C++ files)
18:23:01 <zzo38> I looked up "Intergraph Clipper" in Wikipedia, and I have managed to find it.
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19:02:03 <HackEgo> Comonads are just monads in the dual category.
19:05:01 <int-e> `learn_append comonad They are hard to get into.
19:05:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'comonad': Comonads are just monads in the dual category. They are hard to get into.
19:19:18 <int-e> at least in the same sense as that monads are hard to get out of :-P
19:20:04 <int-e> But I also have not yet found comonads useful, personally... I'm sure it's entirely my own fault.
19:20:53 <fizzie> Come *on*! .tmp at the root directory?
19:21:21 <fizzie> There's a /tmp that's a tmpfs, and a tmp/ that's unversioned.
19:22:07 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access .tmp: No such file or directory
19:22:18 <fizzie> It was .tmp-clipper-instruction-trace and got removed already.
19:22:28 <fizzie> (But still made two commits, of course.)
19:24:36 <shachaf> I don't think monads are hard to get out of either.
19:24:42 <shachaf> fizzie: To be fair, tmp/ is a new innovation.
19:24:46 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
19:25:00 <Taneb> What does shaventions do?
19:25:09 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/shanvention//s#mk#tmp/, mk#
19:25:19 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/shanventions//s#mk#tmp/, mk#
19:26:52 <int-e> `culprits bin/sled
19:27:12 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf
19:28:17 <int-e> oh because oerjan needed 3 attempts to add the movie spoiler
19:45:34 <int-e> hmmmmm.... flaming hot sled
19:46:08 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" && { echo -n "$key//"; cat "$key"; }
19:46:41 <shachaf> `sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk#
19:46:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
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20:46:26 <lambdabot> CYUL 251900Z 24009KT 30SM FEW075 BKN250 29/10 A3012 RMK CU1CI6 CU TR SLP202 DENSITY ALT 1500FT
20:48:07 <int-e> parse error. "Density altitude is the altitude relative to the standard atmosphere conditions (ISA) at which the air density would be equal to the indicated air density at the place of observation." - that did not help.
20:48:28 <lambdabot> KOAK 251853Z AUTO 27006KT 10SM CLR 23/11 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP145 T02330106
20:48:35 <lambdabot> KSJC 251853Z 31004KT 10SM CLR 28/11 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP140 T02780111
20:48:45 <lambdabot> KSAN 251851Z 19006KT 10SM SCT019 21/15 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP126 T02060150 $
20:49:06 <lambdabot> KSMF 251853Z 34008KT 10SM CLR 31/11 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP128 T03060106
20:50:44 <boily> hellochaf. are you still in KOAK?
20:51:28 <lambdabot> KPHX 251851Z 22006KT 10SM FEW120 FEW250 38/09 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP079 T03830089
20:53:01 <int-e> actually the International Standard Atmosphere looks like a great concept
20:54:11 * int-e is imagining a big room of people negotiating what the standard atmosphere should be like... and signing a treaty agreeing to adjust their respective climates accordingly
20:58:06 <boily> it should be blue!
20:58:47 <int-e> especially at night
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21:14:49 <lambdabot> EGLL 251950Z AUTO 27008KT 9999 NCD 16/11 Q1017 NOSIG
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22:02:03 <\oren\> the international sky should be CCCCFF
22:04:30 <Taneb> \oren\, that's a bit pinky for my taste
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01:03:19 <oerjan> oh darn i should have said my guess before googling
01:04:11 <boily> («ahbingadonça» → «ah bien regarde donc ça» → “oh, would you look at that”)
01:04:36 <oerjan> ah. french written in the proper polysynthetic spelling
01:07:08 <boily> meanwhile, trying to learn how to pronounce Korean correctly.
01:07:16 <oerjan> http://www.academia.edu/2000636/Grammaticalization_of_polysynthesis_with_special_reference_to_Spoken_French_
01:07:38 <boily> for the most part, it's quite manageable, but then you trip up on arythmic consonant cluster that fungot you up your way through a word.
01:10:34 <oerjan> (it was the first google hit for french polysynthesis)
01:12:49 <oerjan> (of course that's a pretty disputed theory)
01:16:04 <boily> that "article" reads like notes taken during a class.
01:16:58 <boily> I doubt that the argument that French is polysynthetic is valid.
01:17:22 <oerjan> maybe just spoken québécois then?
01:18:05 <boily> that may be the case.
01:18:37 <boily> verb groups tend to suffer from the greatest mangulation.
01:19:06 <boily> “he was holding her” → «yatnè»
01:19:27 <boily> (of course, this is extremely colloquial and must be taken with an artery-clogging grain of salt.)
01:20:45 -!- Etaoin has joined.
01:23:36 <boily> one example from wikipédia that, with some creativity, supports French polysynthesis: “she opened the door for him again” → «ayarouveraporte»
01:26:27 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
01:28:44 <quintopia> the whole thing? like...until it's over?
01:29:31 <boily> eh? I'm just not imbibing any alcohol today.
01:31:43 <boily> I may have woke up with a fiery headache...
01:31:50 * boily pokes quintopia in the party bits :D
01:32:35 <Etaoin> anyone know why I can't get drunk? since we're talking about drinking
01:36:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:36:33 <HackEgo> pidgin//The pidgin hole principle states that if n+1 messages are sent over n protocols, then at least two messages are sent over the same protocol.
01:37:43 <boily> Etaoin: because you shouldn't aim for that hth
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01:38:05 <shachaf> int-e: Why not the usual meaning of "pidgin"?
01:38:17 <Etaoin> I really don't aim for it, just a thing I noticed
01:38:40 <HackEgo> bezout's theorem//Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials.
01:38:47 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/beout's theorem
01:38:57 <boily> Etaoin: well, drink responsibly and eat lots of poutine to soak up excesses!
01:39:02 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/bezout's theorem
01:39:48 <shachaf> b_jonas: What's wisdomy about that?
01:40:05 <boily> the wisdom of a wisdom is its own wisdom.
01:40:18 <boily> Etaoin: have you ever poutined?
01:41:45 <boily> poutine: French fries, cheese curds, poutine gravy.
01:42:11 <shachaf> Are they French fries even in Canada?
01:43:24 <boily> hmm... good question...
01:43:26 <Etaoin> well I have eaten them but what does that have to do with getting smashed
01:43:51 <boily> perfect post-night-out meal. it magically tastes better at 3am.
01:44:14 <shachaf> boily: Is that why the local poutine place closes at 4?
01:44:28 <shachaf> Unfortunately the vegetarian poutine I've had was kind of scow.
01:44:48 <oerjan> i'm guessing the québécois will call their language french long after it's mutually unintelligible with the metropolitans
01:45:40 <boily> shachaf: the most well-known place is 24/7.
01:46:00 <boily> our French is Frencher than their French, bon!
01:46:03 <shachaf> The only place I know here is Smoke's poutinerie.
01:46:31 <Etaoin> do you pronounce croissant the french or english way?
01:46:59 <Etaoin> I want to go to a bakery and overpronounce the shit out of "croissant"
01:47:17 <shachaf> `? misspellings of corissant
01:47:20 <HackEgo> misspellings of corissant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:47:22 <shachaf> `? misspellings of corissant
01:47:23 <HackEgo> misspellings of corissant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:47:33 <shachaf> i'll blame my fingers here
01:47:34 <shachaf> `? misspellings of croissant
01:47:36 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:47:49 <oerjan> shachaf: you're like, ruining the joke tdnh
01:47:54 <Etaoin> are there any english people not in the eu here?
01:48:13 <boily> Etaoin: please precise "English".
01:48:29 <\oren\> what would cause hexchat to take >1GB ram?
01:48:32 <oerjan> . o O ( slightly tempted to add a noodly special case for that one now )
01:48:47 <shachaf> \oren\: All programs take >1GB RAM now.
01:48:51 <shachaf> It's just how software is written.
01:48:55 <zzo38> Why you should get drunk? In general is bad idea and my recommendation is to don't get drunk
01:48:59 <boily> Eclipse is the New Emacs.
01:49:02 <shachaf> A single Google+ tab in my browser takes >1GB RAM.
01:49:11 <Etaoin> if your program doesn't take >1gb ram it's either not made in java or it's a toy program
01:49:13 <shachaf> zzo38: Why is it bad idea?
01:49:15 <boily> *gasp* someone uses google+!
01:49:46 * boily mapoles \oren\. "you're Canadian. you should know better! you bring disgrace to our families and ancestors!"
01:49:48 <shachaf> boily: Well, I try not to.
01:49:52 <\oren\> as in, I went to the bakery and got a delicious chocolate cwasaw
01:50:12 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
01:50:24 * boily wildly mapoles random miscroissanters
01:50:40 <Etaoin> O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
01:50:56 <zzo38> I have read that in French the words are different
01:51:15 <shachaf> zzo38: Some people get drunk because they enjoy it.
01:51:22 <oerjan> <\oren\> what would cause hexchat to take >1GB ram? <-- is it actually used or just virtually allocated? some programs have started allocating massive address space from the start (see: most recent GHC)
01:51:25 <zzo38> (I don't know what they are, but apparently they involve more Christianity and more swords)
01:51:27 <shachaf> zzo38: Why do you want them to deny themselves the pleasure of being drunk?
01:51:34 <boily> Ô Canada! Terre de nos aïeux! Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! ♪
01:51:36 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you speak French?
01:51:58 <zzo38> No I don't speak French, I just read in the news that the French Canadian anthem is different
01:51:58 <shachaf> Anyway the Russian anthem is the best one.
01:52:04 <shachaf> So you might as well scrap the rest.
01:52:07 <oerjan> . o O ( you should get properly drunk _once_, so you know to avoid it. )
01:52:19 <shachaf> zzo38: I thought you were Canadian?
01:52:22 <zzo38> shachaf: It is recommendation not to get drunk, it is not a requirement
01:52:39 <zzo38> Yes I am Canadian but I am not very good at French.
01:52:55 <Etaoin> I genuinely cannot get drunk tho
01:53:03 <Etaoin> no matter how much I drink
01:53:16 <zzo38> (If I was working in government, I would try to learn French better so that I can know both English and French, but I do not work in the government and do not intend to.)
01:53:17 <Etaoin> I can get alcohol poisoning and die?
01:53:34 <Etaoin> if that counts as getting absolutely smashed
01:53:37 <boily> Etaoin: pretty much so, yes.
01:53:40 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you work outside government?
01:54:02 <zzo38> What do you think?
01:54:16 <shachaf> I thought not, but I didn't know.
01:55:03 <zzo38> I will not write the answer
01:55:13 <Etaoin> you're not worthy of an answer
01:55:43 <oerjan> <shachaf> Anyway the Russian anthem is the best one. <-- i dunno i have a weak spot for the german one too.
01:56:28 <Etaoin> isn't the swedish anthem basically abba?
01:57:20 <oerjan> Etaoin: no, although the swedish anthem is also nice.
01:57:36 <Etaoin> that's honestly kind of disappointing
01:58:01 <Etaoin> imagine at the start of every football game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrGuyw1V8s
01:59:02 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ4rpH4wLMQ that author comment is _so_ swedish (you can imagine what happened in the comments before he closed them)
01:59:39 <Etaoin> zlatan singing "dancing queen only seventeen"
01:59:50 <oerjan> ("Please grasp that I'm not racist, I'm communist"
02:00:21 <Etaoin> communism isn't half bad honestly
02:00:38 <oerjan> basically, in sweden you cannot upload the national anthem to youtube without being accused of racism
02:00:57 * oerjan is norwegian not swedish btw
02:01:00 <shachaf> I've been reading a few capitalism propaganda books.
02:01:03 <Etaoin> have you seen the picture of the most commonly learned language in europe on duolingo?
02:01:21 <Etaoin> most are english/german
02:01:28 <Etaoin> in sweden it's swedish
02:02:24 <oerjan> i doubt that even with all the immigrants, swedish would beat english as second language there...
02:02:55 <Etaoin> not sure if it was official or a meme sadly
02:03:00 <oerjan> (assuming that _everyone_ learns english, like in other nordic countries)
02:03:16 <Etaoin> everyone knows english in sweden is the stereotype
02:03:35 <Etaoin> there's a person called Alcest in the chat, you like the band or just the word?
02:03:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
02:03:56 <Etaoin> is it random or is it the band
02:03:59 <Etaoin> because it's a great band
02:04:31 <hppavilion[1]> "It should work if your browser supports HTML" --Me
02:05:06 <Etaoin> sounds like something you'd say condescendingly to someone being stupid tbh
02:05:33 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: I said it to someone whose computer refuses to install Flash (It's a linux box, so it's not like they're just a massive idiot)
02:05:51 <oerjan> i don't think Alcest is physically present now. e doesn't speak much, anyway.
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02:07:45 <Etaoin> you sure flash only uses html? pretty sure a browser/os have to support flash for it to work
02:07:55 <Etaoin> but getting flash to work on linux can get weird
02:08:49 <oerjan> i assume hppavilion[1] meant the page doesn't need flash
02:09:59 <Etaoin> I understood it as saying flash should work if the browser supports HTML
02:10:23 <oerjan> i don't think hppavilion[1] is that cluecless.
02:10:50 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
02:11:53 <boily> `learn_append hppavilion[1] No es tan cluecless.
02:12:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'hppavilion[1]': hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless.
02:12:42 <boily> one day, we'll harpoon a South American, keep them in the chännel, grow them, and make them correct the Spanish bits of the Great Wisdom.
02:14:00 <Etaoin> is there a bot that translates a given string into brainfuck code that prints it?
02:14:22 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Wait, I think fungot might have a command for that
02:14:22 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: i think it refers to _code_, not of syntax for people that work on every rfc-compliant ircds
02:14:24 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
02:14:37 <hppavilion[1]> boily: And they'll be able to explain to other south americans that we aren't here to explain canaima
02:15:43 <fizzie> The de-facto standard is "bf_textgen" (or various names like that), a genetic programming dealie.
02:15:51 <fizzie> It used to be installed in EgoBot, but of course that is no more.
02:15:55 <fizzie> It might be in the port.
02:16:32 <hppavilion[1]> Why do I always try to derive meaning from fungot? We all know fungot never says anything of meaning; that'd give fnem away
02:16:33 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: you made him sad! :p. ugh i need to install
02:17:03 <fungot> shachaf: i was thinking he was framed in frantic too. of course, the even worse thing about the course is to allow fnord to work with cygwin.
02:17:05 <boily> hppavilion[1]: don't encourage fungot hth
02:17:05 <fungot> boily: how can you expect, " freestanding" means that the language only. ah well
02:17:15 <hppavilion[1]> The first statement sounded like Etaoin and the second sounded like the person I'm actively talking to who doesn't have flash
02:17:19 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/bf_textgen: not found
02:17:27 <fizzie> Er, right, the name was different.
02:17:38 <shachaf> fungot: "freestanding" means the language only? Very true.
02:17:38 <fungot> shachaf: except for using os x? meaning via mouse? use a keyboard :p.
02:17:51 <HackEgo> 72 ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>-.>+.>.++++++.+++.--. [423]
02:17:59 <fizzie> ^bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>-.>+.>.++++++.+++.--.
02:18:11 <fizzie> Except it wasn't *that* slow when installed in EgoBot.
02:18:36 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Seriously, you didn't give fungot the input as a parameter, did you?
02:18:36 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: a srfi can't specify a violation of privacy.). can someone spoon-feed me the require line above just installed in /.plt-scheme/ planet/
02:18:47 <shachaf> fizzie: why is HackEgo so slow tdnh
02:18:52 <fizzie> It's also far from optimal. As you can maybe tell from "><" already.
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02:19:09 * boily ties fungot and HackEgo together to see what will happen
02:19:09 <fungot> boily: quite the contrary: undefined operations add a little bit.
02:19:12 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Why don't we just pipe it through a s/<>// filter?
02:19:23 <boily> oh yeah, interbot undefined operations baby...
02:19:35 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: Because it would be such a minor win.
02:19:37 <hppavilion[1]> Well, that /could/ mess up when <> is the first occurence of > in the program
02:19:57 <hppavilion[1]> Depending on how the interpreter works- whether it just ignores < at the home position
02:20:00 <fizzie> I thought you meant s/><// actually.
02:20:11 <fizzie> I don't think it's possible for bf_txtgen to generate a <>.
02:20:29 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Yes, that too, but I accidentally typed <> first and didn't feel like reaching /all the way/ to my backspace key
02:20:31 <fizzie> It has a very strict format for the program it generates.
02:20:38 <Etaoin> is it possible to get fungot to say fungot?
02:20:38 <fungot> Etaoin: yes. it parses it into an interpreter session and type ( load " foo.scm") doesn't seem to be baffled by curly braces in the bnf, but it
02:20:59 <Etaoin> does it start talking to itself?
02:21:01 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: But it won't respond, because the IRC server doesn't send you your own messages
02:21:17 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: The only reason they appear in your client is because the client adds them for convenience
02:21:23 <Etaoin> what about adding another bot that'll try to talk to it every few hours
02:21:35 <HackEgo> botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release.
02:21:48 <Etaoin> yeah I know how it works I've made chat clients ^_^
02:22:03 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: But please, feel free to try to make one- it's tradition
02:22:09 <Etaoin> of course it has :D I just wanna see these in action
02:22:36 <fizzie> There's some amount of botloop avoidance logic in many bots.
02:22:40 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Note: Botlopping doesn't count if you make the bot (unless you already made it and want to see if there's a part that lets you botlop)
02:23:05 <fizzie> HackEgo adds some invisible Unicode if the message starts with [^a-z] (approximately), and fungot has a built-in ignore list of nicks it ignores completely.
02:23:05 <fungot> fizzie: all those dotted lines are hard on my eyes... so, it's not a
02:23:08 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot)!
02:23:46 <Etaoin> why are these built in though?
02:24:15 <Etaoin> how is botlopping a bad thing :(
02:24:18 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: And it'd be hard to add a feature to make it so you can add an ignore
02:24:30 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: It's fun for exactly 3 revolutions, then it gets annoyying
02:24:42 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Remember, fungot is literally written in Befunge-98
02:24:42 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: that is ( to humans) obviously not very useful unless you know what one i stopped at then
02:24:45 <Etaoin> I suppose that's a fair point
02:25:32 <hppavilion[1]> (that's not even a piece of #esoteric jokelore; fungot is actually written in Befunge-98, and the code is public)
02:25:33 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: mer espoo/ olari visitation now; away. the impossible takes a little time to understand it, so
02:26:03 <Etaoin> how are they implemented though? I mean where do they run?
02:26:07 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: what happens if you invoke a full continuation, because it has none. :p)
02:26:31 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, the last commit to fungot's repo was made in 2013
02:26:31 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: it is a case of weird dos font? that's even worse
02:26:54 <Etaoin> do you purposefully keep saying fungot just to invoke fungot
02:26:55 <fungot> Etaoin: the specs asked for meters or centimeters wide use.... make an interpreter for
02:27:04 <fizzie> I haven't been doing much fungot development lately.
02:27:05 <fungot> fizzie: ok. i'll stick to the standard ( which it does the same? ( roughly that amount of bits
02:27:07 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: isn't you also oklopol? i dont see what the optimization does to the code during execution
02:27:15 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: a few crappy ones use boehm's gc. it's as good as newlisp. any number of strings can be ordered by internet. that's so, eh, cheap enough
02:27:23 <Etaoin> I don't fungotting know
02:27:24 <fungot> Etaoin: that too. :) in fact, to me
02:27:24 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: think " c preprocessor on steroids" for me in c and use http://www.toreun.org/ eso.zip is the latest ' unofficial' release, from november of last year)
02:28:56 <hppavilion[1]> The Funge who must Not be Named, when fnis creator said e hadn't been doing much development on fnim, told em (the creator) that fne would just stick to the standard- the code for the bot
02:29:26 <fizzie> As for where it runs physically, in a cfunge interpreter on a box about one and a half metres left of my feet.
02:29:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SENSORY CHICKEN).
02:29:38 <Etaoin> but it does actually have to run on a server?
02:29:50 <Etaoin> it's not possible to have it float in the ether somewhere
02:30:17 <fizzie> Unfortunately, freenode doesn't yet support free-floating blobs of Befunge for some reason.
02:30:41 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a programming language that uses X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* as a program? One where all programs necessarily look like viruses but aren't?
02:31:14 <hppavilion[1]> Or, well, maybe it doesn't need the EICAR as a program, but it still has to always look like a virus
02:31:16 <fizzie> (HackEgo runs on the same machine as the esolangs.org wiki.)
02:31:27 <Etaoin> oh on a more serious note, is it possible to design a language in which it's syntactically incorrect to write a non halting program?
02:31:40 <fizzie> That doesn't really "run".
02:31:56 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Total Functional Programming, where you can only write halting programs
02:32:05 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: It's actually a field that I think is gaining some traction
02:32:26 <hppavilion[1]> TFP or the better variant where you can write non-halting programs, but only when it's provable that they're non-halting
02:32:45 <Etaoin> I'd prefer the former variant honestly
02:33:05 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 3h 16m 5s ago: <hppavilion[1]> In a 4D universe, would we have 2D roads? <-- if you consider 4d to include relativistic spacetime, we already do hth
02:33:05 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 1h 24m 12s ago: grep has a -r option hth
02:33:33 <hppavilion[1]> DAMN YOU AND YOUR PROPER TECHNICALITIES OF SCIENCE!
02:34:26 <Etaoin> aren't roads 2d by default?
02:36:21 <Etaoin> as an objection to oerjan's response, wouldn't string theory require the universe to be >12D?
02:37:38 <Etaoin> haskell isn't total functional? right?
02:38:57 <Etaoin> wouldn't f _ = f 3 non halting?
02:44:09 <Etaoin> can someone give me an example of a total functional language?
02:47:16 <Etaoin> can the busy beaver be implemented in these languages?
02:49:27 <fizzie> (Well, maybe BlooP isn't. I'm not entirely sure what the exact definition for "total functional" is. But it's the canonical example language that only allows programs that halt.)
02:49:58 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: DAMN YOU! <-- please don't damn people it disturbs ais523 hth
02:51:44 <Etaoin> I'm def gonna have a ton of these silly questions in the future
02:51:54 <oerjan> Etaoin: these languages aren't even turing-complete, because then you'd have solved the halting problem.
02:52:07 <Etaoin> I know they aren't turing complete
02:52:08 <shachaf> oerjan: does it disturb you
02:52:19 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: You can't *really* implement busy beaver in these because, by their nature, you can always make a longer-running program
02:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: And thus you can always make a program that leaves more cells on 1
02:52:43 <Etaoin> but wouldn't it be impossible to implement the variations that don't halt?
02:53:08 <Etaoin> basically anything we don't know if it halts could be tested in such a language, right?
02:53:38 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: No, you can't put anything in that language to see if it halts
02:53:51 <Etaoin> why not? sorry if it's a stupid question
02:53:59 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Because even things we do know don't halt won't halt in this language- or, more accurately, aren't implementable
02:54:44 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: In a language where all programs must halt, how would you implement a truth machine?
02:55:08 <hppavilion[1]> Since you can't, you can't plug in a program to see if it will halt
02:55:13 <Etaoin> well that's my point, if it isn't implementable then it definitely doesn't halt
02:55:27 <hppavilion[1]> Though, I suppose you could argue this forms a valid strategy- oh, that's what I was about to say
02:55:28 <oerjan> Etaoin: any total language must leave some halting problems unimplementable, because otherwise you could again solve the halting problem by trying to convert to it.
02:55:40 <Etaoin> basically something that would be like "Syntax error at line 34: would make the algorithm non halting"
02:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Well, what about programs that do halt but aren't implementable?
02:56:00 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: That would just be a solution to the halting problem
02:56:21 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: These languages don't syntactically prohibit non-halting, they just are impossible to make non-halting
02:56:52 <Etaoin> I was asking for the former in the beginning, I suppose that's a nonsensical question now that I think about it
02:57:21 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: In theory you could kind of make something like that? But it wouldn't really be useful
02:57:38 <Etaoin> yeah the compiler would basically have to solve the halting problem on any program, right?
03:01:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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03:07:06 <quintopia> Etaoin: getting drunk is great and the reason you cant get drunk is you didnt drink enough booze. some people just metabolize it far faster
03:07:40 <Etaoin> I don't know man I can chug a lot of it without any effect but I will conduct and experiment soon!
03:09:03 <quintopia> zzo38: the reason yo get drunk is ... all the best beverages are alcohiolic, and once youve had one, why stop?
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03:09:48 <quintopia> Etaoin: what did you drink? shots? beer?
03:11:00 <Etaoin> I do enjoy cider though
03:11:13 <Etaoin> but those are the ones I'd try to drink to get drunk
03:12:57 <Etaoin> I'm allergic to wine so have a guess ^^
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03:26:21 <Etaoin> https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/c+-.html
03:26:25 <Etaoin> just found out about this
03:30:52 <HackEgo> quines/c: C source, ASCII text
03:31:49 <HackEgo> #include <stdio.h> \ int main(){char*s="#include <stdio.h>%cint main(){char*s=%c%s%c;printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}%c";printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}
03:33:27 <Etaoin> that's actually really cool
03:35:15 <Etaoin> the thing you just did
03:35:57 <pikhq_> It's kinda a cute little quine.
03:35:58 <oerjan> it used to be like that, but today someone switched out with a new version just in text.
03:36:10 <Etaoin> https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/error-haiku.html
03:36:36 <pikhq_> Though I tend to prefer explicit declarations over an #include for stuff like that.
03:36:42 <pikhq_> (makes it a nice one-liner)
03:38:31 <Etaoin> what's the language called that uses "human interpreters" in this irc?
03:39:18 <Etaoin> http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP#99_bottles
03:39:32 <Etaoin> gf gave me a shirt with this printed on it 2 years ago
03:40:07 <oerjan> wait, including the GregorR?
03:40:10 <Etaoin> is memonic an actual user?
03:40:23 <Etaoin> I'll take pics when it's out of the wash
03:40:42 <oerjan> it's probably old, maybe fizzie remembers
03:40:58 <fungot> Etaoin: please remember that. what is lisp in small pieces right fnord that anything like eopl? how does one make thunks useful?
03:41:47 <Etaoin> not sure if that's a yes
03:41:54 <Etaoin> though that might be undecidable
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03:44:03 <quintopia> the existence of a user named mnemonic predates my arrival on irc
03:44:59 -!- jonne_ has joined.
03:46:38 <coppro> mnemonic is correct though
03:46:50 <Etaoin> sadly not the username they used
03:48:42 <hppavilion[1]> I want to be a good wikipedian- like the proper zealots who are overinvested in Wikipedia- but I rarely see something in need of edits. Halp.
03:49:33 <Etaoin> learn an unused language and translate everything to that language?
03:51:22 <pikhq_> I'm not sure why, but I went and tinkered with that quine a bit and made it charset-independent...
03:52:08 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: fashion
03:52:12 <coppro> fashion articles are *abysmal*
03:52:29 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: And me editing them would only make it worse
03:53:09 <Etaoin> extremely well detailed too
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03:53:46 <Etaoin> I.. I mean just detailed
03:53:52 <Etaoin> well detailed isn't a phrase
03:57:30 <oerjan> nah no one speaks croatian
03:57:56 <Etaoin> the language, not the nationality
03:58:09 <oerjan> what, there are _two_ croatians here?
03:58:19 <oerjan> Etaoin: why do you think i ran away
03:58:32 <Etaoin> that may or may not be the gf I mentioned some time ago
03:58:43 <oerjan> good taste in t-shirts
03:58:59 <Etaoin> we all have 6 character nicks
03:59:11 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
03:59:13 <Etaoin> our messages are so nicely alligned, right fungot
03:59:13 <fungot> Etaoin: it's not deterministic
03:59:15 <oerjan> the one true nick length, right myndzi
04:00:58 <oerjan> i cannot, he works at google
04:01:13 <oerjan> the repercursions are too scary
04:01:15 <jonne_> does he work in the googleplex
04:01:53 <oerjan> Etaoin: well except fizzie
04:02:05 <Etaoin> fizzie works at googleplex?
04:02:16 <oerjan> no, but he is also an op hth
04:02:53 <oerjan> (i assume googleplex is that mountain view place, and fizzie is in london)
04:03:09 <Etaoin> googleplex is a number larger than google hth
04:03:30 <Etaoin> the mountain view place is google [x]
04:03:30 <oerjan> you're thinking of googol hth
04:04:01 <Etaoin> yes google is inspired by 80s scifi
04:04:09 <coppro> googoglplex is the number, googleplex is the campus
04:04:20 <Etaoin> is it actually called googleplex?
04:04:30 <Etaoin> that's genuinely amazing
04:04:49 <Etaoin> I'm just marveling at how hilarious computer people are today
04:05:56 <Etaoin> google x changed their name to just "x"
04:06:03 <jonne_> i've told you it was called googleplex months ago
04:06:11 <Etaoin> https://www.solveforx.com/
04:06:20 <jonne_> and sort of jealous you got to relive that realization
04:06:26 <oerjan> i think it's common knowledge that boyfriends don't listen hth
04:06:51 <Etaoin> nothing coppro says is free afaik
04:07:42 <Etaoin> Projects that X has considered and rejected include a space elevator, which was deemed to be currently infeasible;[28] a hoverboard, which was determined to be too costly relative to the societal benefits;[29] a user-safe jetpack, which was thought to be too loud and energy-wasting;[30] and teleportation, which was found to violate the laws of physics.
04:08:08 <Etaoin> someone should reorganize this sentence to be ascending in hilarity
04:09:40 <Etaoin> the more I read it the more I find it is
04:10:05 <Etaoin> it really does hit a perfect high note with that ending
04:10:58 <jonne_> imagine if they did dabble in things acceptably costly in relation to the societal benefits
04:11:03 <jonne_> such as environmentalism
04:12:12 <Etaoin> they do self driving cars, that's a step in that direction I think
04:12:30 <oerjan> doesn't that Makani thing count?
04:15:09 <jonne_> what do these cars even run on
04:16:09 <jonne_> why don't you marry each other
04:17:15 <Etaoin> because roads are 2d and intelligence is ethereal
04:18:13 <jonne_> but how does it work, do you even need a driver's licence
04:18:51 <Etaoin> why would a car need a driver's licence
04:19:07 <Etaoin> do you need a walking licence?
04:19:18 <jonne_> maybe the future is here and i won't ever have to make that investment
04:23:51 <Etaoin> driving is for losers lol
04:24:40 <HackEgo> turkey//Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab.
04:24:51 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure you'll need a driver's license at least until laws are changed.
04:25:01 <oerjan> also, someone in the driver's seat.
04:25:05 <Etaoin> not if I sit in the passenger seat
04:25:17 <HackEgo> html//HTML is short for "hope this mess loads".
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04:25:59 <shachaf> definitely deleting that one
04:26:04 <HackEgo> diarrhea//Diarrhea is the most sickening accent, although some others are more grave.
04:26:05 <HackEgo> \//\ was initially popular as a replacement for the solidus, but inevitably there was a backslash.
04:26:05 <HackEgo> select//select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, conditional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more.
04:26:48 <Etaoin> tbh you should implement one that tells the user to chill if there's a lot of consecutive requests
04:28:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:422) <monqy> cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" <oerjan> yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. \ 803) <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway \ 871) <Bike> so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and h
04:28:16 <HackEgo> 2/2:e uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? \ 547) <itidus20> my old 2d game is named either runch or turbo fight.... and its hard \ 742) <monqy> moral of the story with enough peer pressure nything is possible \
04:28:41 <shachaf> nostalgia forbids deleting any of them
04:28:57 <Etaoin> why are you deleting :(
04:35:40 <zzo38> I think that you should hardly ever to delete them.
04:36:11 <HackEgo> 985) <olsner> metar lead to canada, more metar and cows
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04:42:27 <oerjan> Etaoin: it's a tradition
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04:43:02 <oerjan> although these days there are so few crap quotes left that we normally don't find anything we want to remove
04:43:35 <Etaoin> how come there's a shortage of crap quotes?
04:43:49 <oerjan> because we deleted them hth :P
04:44:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:385) <SgeoN1> No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse. \ 1070) <+kmc> Harry Potter and the Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living \ 737) <monqy> 200 and 20 are the same <monqy> different notations for the same thing \ 368) <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: nope, I
04:44:11 <HackEgo> 2/2: removed . from the current directory \ 686) <fizzie> Quinary computers replace the cache with a quiche. \
04:44:41 <oerjan> what is that final newline for
04:44:50 <shachaf> Are quinary computers computers that can only run quines?
04:45:01 <Etaoin> why aren't there any new ones though °n°
04:45:21 <shachaf> oerjan: it's me being lazy hth
04:45:37 <oerjan> Etaoin: there are. but i think we've got slightly higher standards
04:45:39 <shachaf> oerjan: alt. it's for disambiguating between text that contains a final newline and text that doesn't
04:45:55 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore
04:45:59 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = f.read().replace("\n", " \\ ") \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
04:49:18 <shachaf> `sled bin/distort//s#data = .*#data = ' \\\\ '.join(f.read().splitlines())#
04:49:21 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
04:49:28 <HackEgo> 1/3:946) <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals \ 111) <fungot> ais523: elf corpses are not considered expensive health food. but the most expensive. \ 327) <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_
04:49:31 <HackEgo> 2/3:name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring \ 829) <elliott> I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. <elliott> okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad <elliott> please kill me <elliott> :( \ 776) <zzo
04:49:34 <HackEgo> 3/3:38> But I still sign by my pens and use extra dots and shapes and so on so that I can claim I was threatened to sign it and put those dots there to warn you, or whatever
04:50:17 <oerjan> . o O ( xor swapping transfinite ordinals is entirely reasonable )
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04:51:42 <oerjan> it's just nim addition after all
04:52:40 <shachaf> Is there something like FRACTRAN that uses powers of 2 and sets instead of primes and bags?
04:53:10 <oerjan> i think we concluded it isn't TC with sets
04:53:41 <oerjan> in fact, that's pretty obvious, you get a finite number of bits
04:53:51 <shachaf> Well, you might have to use a more complicated operation.
04:53:57 <Etaoin> would you mind if I attempted at making my own bot? never done that before, might get interesting
04:54:26 <oerjan> shachaf: i know, you could treat the bits like a tape *runs away*
04:54:31 <shachaf> The one used by FRACTRAN (which would be something involving & and |, I guess) probably wouldn't work.
04:54:50 <oerjan> Etaoin: that's also traditional
04:55:23 <oerjan> and if it gets too spammy, it's traditional that shachaf asks you to move it to #esoteric-blah
04:55:49 <shachaf> And if it's actually too spammy, it's traditional that oerjan bans it a little later.
04:56:34 <Etaoin> I'm gonna believe the man with the correct amount of characters in their name on this one
04:56:53 <HackEgo> Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
04:57:34 <oerjan> i think possibly you know.
04:57:41 <jonne_> https://xkcd.com/1646/
04:57:42 * oerjan isn't that big on theory of mind.
04:58:17 <oerjan> jonne_: please don't link that where fungot can see it twh
04:58:17 <fungot> oerjan: i wonder if it works
04:58:21 <Etaoin> that kind of bot is obviously too spammy and would get moved to #esoteric-blah
04:58:28 <oerjan> fungot: NO IT DOES NOT WORK
04:58:28 <fungot> oerjan: i am if i call eval on it is there, use fnord)? i
04:58:56 <shachaf> fungot: why don't you try it hth
04:58:56 <fungot> shachaf: surely all 1x does is appends the x to the value of path slot.
04:59:12 <oerjan> shachaf: please don't doom us all twh
04:59:20 <fungot> shachaf: the last one.)"
04:59:29 <fungot> shachaf: i'm having trouble getting the plt one
04:59:50 <Etaoin> fungot: are we all doomed?
04:59:50 <fungot> Etaoin: be there fnord. lanier thinks the software crisis. tush ehird print " fnord
05:00:22 <shachaf> fungot: are you referring to sidney lanier twh
05:00:22 <fungot> shachaf: if you want to offer you this one too. fnord.
05:03:14 <shachaf> fungot: look where too much fun got you
05:03:14 <fungot> shachaf: cette newsletter n'est pas un programme." is that like cracking your knuckles, except you're an octopus? i can't seem to get the user accounts too, this'll take days.
05:06:06 <HackEgo> superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal//Superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal is where mroman lives.
05:06:20 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal
05:07:46 <oerjan> it's just german it's supposed to be that way hth
05:08:11 <HackEgo> chicken//chicken is boily af
05:13:03 <HackEgo> extreme irony//Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
05:13:13 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/extreme irony
05:13:28 <shachaf> Maybe I ought to make a version of `wisdom with built-in culprits.
05:14:10 <zgrep> I remember the days when HackEgo replied instantly...
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05:14:32 <Etaoin> how come it's slow though?
05:14:52 <zgrep> I don't know. I tried to set up my own variant of it, but the main userspace linux emulator thingy kept segfaulting.
05:15:29 <zgrep> I have a plan to make an IRC bot that simply runs inside a VM, and passes through things to bash without actually trying to do any shielding or anything.
05:15:54 <Etaoin> are programming languages created or discovered
05:16:13 <zgrep> Well, same of any idea, really. Both, in my opinion.
05:17:10 <Etaoin> does the answer change if said programming languages are joke languages?
05:17:32 <zgrep> Sure, as an idea it has always existed. But /somebody/ had to jump through the mental hoops to figure it out. They "created" it by thinking of it out of "nothing".
05:17:46 <jonne_> it's 6am don't indulge him
05:18:12 <HackEgo> nano//nano is vi's sister.
05:18:20 <HackEgo> helsinki//Helsinki is the capital of Finland. Its main suburb is Hexham, Northumberland.
05:18:27 <zgrep> Hm. Why's it a double /? Didn't it used to be a single slash?
05:18:44 <HackEgo> find: warning: Unix filenames usually don't contain slashes (though pathnames do). That means that '-name `*/*'' will probably evaluate to false all the time on this system. You might find the '-wholename' test more useful, or perhaps '-samefile'. Alternatively, if you are using GNU grep, you could use 'find ... -print0 | grep -FzZ `*/*''. \ //c
05:19:36 <HackEgo> smlist 445: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
05:21:11 <Etaoin> is it possible to crash hackego
05:21:50 <zgrep> Possibly. It'd take quite the maneuvering, though. You'd have to break out of the UML thingy.
05:22:26 <zgrep> Huh. It took me this long to realise your nick is Etaoin, and that the rest of it is shrdlu. ._.
05:23:17 <Etaoin> I hope I'm not stealing someone else's nick
05:23:22 * zgrep vanishes back into mysterious idling for a long time
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05:36:01 <HackEgo> find: missing argument to `-path'
05:36:11 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
05:37:10 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s,-name ",-ipath "wisdom/,
05:37:15 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
05:37:31 <HackEgo> wisdome//The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom.
05:38:11 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
05:38:35 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s/ipath/path/
05:38:39 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
05:38:45 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯//¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
05:39:18 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
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05:39:49 <oerjan> shachaf: that'll be 6 zorkmids hth
05:40:06 <shachaf> oerjan: are we charging each other for HackEgo changes now?
05:40:58 <oerjan> `8ball are we charging each other for HackEgo changes now?
05:40:58 <oerjan> are we charging each other for HackEgo changes now?
05:41:05 <shachaf> i'm not sure the balance will wind up being in your favor hth
05:41:42 <oerjan> well i'm always off balance anyway.
05:42:22 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#over#under#
05:42:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie underlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
05:45:06 <oerjan> i think i shall not be outside at around 18
05:45:16 <oerjan> (not that i was planning to, anyway)
05:45:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
05:45:54 <lambdabot> CYUL 260400Z 00000KT 15SM FEW250 22/13 A3009 RMK CI2 SLP192 DENSITY ALT 700FT \ ENVA 260420Z 09003KT 9999 SCT010 BKN014 12/10 Q1016 RMK WIND 670FT 09006KT \ ESSB 260420Z AUTO 08007KT 9999 BKN098/// BKN180/// 20/16 Q1012 \ KOAK 260353Z 28013KT 10SM FEW180 17/11 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP135 T01720106
05:49:30 <oerjan> 2.9 - 14.3 mm, that one hour.
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05:49:54 <oerjan> not very precise, i guess
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06:17:28 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, would it be better to translate languages by going from the main language to lojban then from lojban to the target than just from source to target?
06:18:30 <Destructible> because any resolution conserved would only be done by the people making the conversion to lojban
06:19:09 <Destructible> perhaps it could be useful for converting it to a language where it is well described, before someone else translates it
06:25:16 <Cale> Hm, would it be better to translate audio formats by going from FLAC to Ogg Vorbis then from Ogg Vorbis to MP3, than just from FLAC to MP3?
06:26:51 <coppro> never use a lossy format as an intermediate as you'll just introduce more degradation
06:30:23 <pikhq> In video lossy formats often get used as intermediates.
06:30:48 <pikhq> Not that it's a good idea there either, it's just more common because raw or lossless compressed video is pretty sizable.
06:36:26 <hppavilion[1]> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Voiceless_glottal_fricative.ogg should be a meme for responding to terrible jokes
06:42:16 <hppavilion[1]> Do linguists have a term for the way people talk to their pets?
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06:48:02 <Cale> coppro: I was joking about the question about languages :)
06:49:18 <shachaf> Cale: Well, for audio formats you have a lossless option you can use instead, so you don't have to write n^2 converters.
06:49:44 <shachaf> There's no lossless language option, so in theory using a lossy language might make sense to save work.
06:50:06 <shachaf> Even if some intermediate format did make sense, though, it would almost certainly not be lojban.
06:51:03 <Destructible> To be honest, language is a lossy format as well
06:53:35 <pikhq> And translation is not exactly as practical to do automatically as audio format conversion is.
07:21:35 <hppavilion[1]> There seems to be a rule that, if a word contains the diletter "py" or "pi", it is required that there be a (completely irrelevant) python library with a name based on it
07:22:05 <shachaf> "happy" is a haskell package
07:22:11 <shachaf> but not a haskell-python bridge
07:31:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: There's probably also a haskell-python bridge called happy
07:31:56 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: If there isn't, we must execute the BDFL of happy and take its place
07:32:20 <hppavilion[1]> Also, how do you know there isn't a python package called "happy" fitting the criterium?
07:32:39 <shachaf> how can you truly know anything
07:33:38 <Cale> what are birds?
07:33:44 <Cale> We just don't know.
07:34:25 <shachaf> why is HackEgo so slow? we just don't know
07:34:42 <HackEgo> <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <Phantom_Hoover> learn bird bird bird bird \ <nortti> learn bird is a dinosaur \ <Phantom_Hoover> learn bird bird bird bird
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07:58:04 <\oren\> Aw shit I made myself sound really old!
07:58:50 <\oren\> I remarked about "waiting for the game boy advance sp instead of buying the first gba"
08:01:54 <\oren\> how does one catch oneself from saying things that will inadvertently show one's age?
08:03:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:03:56 <pikhq> That doesn't make you sound very old...
08:05:24 <Taneb> pikhq, older than me, I guess, but probably younger than most of the channel
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08:06:01 <pikhq> Yeah, it only makes you "maybe mid-20s"
08:08:53 <shachaf> I never had any Nintendo things.
08:09:09 <\oren\> Actually, there's a more general question. How do you detect statements that reveal personal information indirectly? Can an automatic system be made to build up a profile of an anonymous person based on such statments?
08:09:19 <shachaf> People try to make me feel like I missed out on life.
08:10:18 <\oren\> seems like a pretty hard AI task
08:13:30 <\oren\> but on the other hand a system like that can also be used to automatically prevent people from revealing too much about themselves
08:14:17 <shachaf> You should reveal literally everything about yourself.
08:14:25 <shachaf> Don't you want to make the world more open and connected?
08:15:34 <pikhq> shachaf: Almost all of my Nintendo things have been adulthood purchases, if that makes you feel better.
08:15:47 <\oren\> I already kinda do. I'm using my real name here...
08:16:22 <pikhq> I don't, but many of you know my real name, and those of you who don't are a trip to google.com away.
08:16:32 <pikhq> shachaf: Doin' okay. Hopeful for my interview on Tuesday.
08:16:45 <\oren\> pikhq: that's true for me too, but only because I have way more money now to buy everything
08:18:58 <pikhq> Code interview for an SRE position up in SF.
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09:07:30 <zzo38> How should I to do keyboard mapping lookup in Xwicketset? Using XKeysymToString and XrmStringToQuark every time a key is pushed would probably be slow?
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11:24:49 <izabera> https://highon.coffee/blog/penetration-testing-tools-cheat-sheet/
11:25:11 <izabera> gcc -o exploit exploit.c i needed this so much
11:25:26 <gamemanj> yeah, gcc -o is a really useful option
11:25:41 <gamemanj> go to a different place! *drama*
11:28:02 <izabera> i'm so glad they show how to create a suid shell for both /bin/bash and /bin/sh
11:36:52 <gamemanj> a reference to The Martian for their ASCII table
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11:38:25 <gamemanj> and such lovely advice as "Use google to search exploit-db.com for exploits" (yeah, that's not suspicious)
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13:01:26 <fizzie> I've never hung around on #IRP, so I wouldn't've seen the dicussion involving 'memonic', if that really happened.
13:09:33 <izabera> how do you read wouldn't've ?
13:24:36 <gamemanj> Person A: Are you intending on destroying the world? Person B: I wouldn't've even dreamt of it.
13:24:59 <gamemanj> (of course, person B may be telling lies)
13:25:17 <izabera> that was an interesting subplot
13:25:45 <gamemanj> In any language where you can tell truth, you can tell lies
13:26:08 <gamemanj> (as long as those truths are arbitrary)
13:26:23 <FireFly> What about the other way around? (what about newspeak?j
13:27:02 <gamemanj> As long as those lies are arbitrary.
13:27:19 <gamemanj> everybody can tell what "ungood" means
13:27:36 <gamemanj> for example, uncreating the universe could be considered ungood
13:28:26 <gamemanj> Note the "as long as they're arbitrary" - you have to have enough expression to tell whatever lies you need, and by having that you also leave a hole open for telling truth
13:30:03 <gamemanj> Even a simple operator that expresses a fact to be not-true allows expressing a truth for any lie
13:30:14 <gamemanj> because you can just prepend that operator
13:30:38 <gamemanj> And since your oppressive regime will have to, one day, say that the words of the rebels aren't true...
13:31:02 <gamemanj> Someone will find a way to express (perhaps with some monkey-patching of the language), that your words aren't true.
13:44:11 <izabera> \oren\: http://unicodepowersymbol.com/
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13:52:45 * lifthrasiir is looking forward the eventual encoding of classical Yi script
13:52:58 <lifthrasiir> (88,000 characters proposed, probably the largest of any Unicode proposal)
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13:58:55 <nortti> lifthrasiir: out of interest, what's the story of your nick?
13:59:52 <lifthrasiir> I've just taken a nick of appropriate complexity (deriving from Lífþrasir of Norse mythology) and tweaked it so that it is available in gmail
14:03:24 <lifthrasiir> nortti: and if you wonder about Yurume instead, https://anidb.net/ch11207
14:12:51 <gamemanj> a language is a standard that people agree on by communicating in it. thus, what stops Tolkien's scripts from entering Unicode?
14:13:06 <gamemanj> What is the criteria for a language?
14:13:45 <gamemanj> And/or script for that language?
14:14:27 <nortti> I have heard there are some problems with tolkien estate re. tengwar
14:14:35 <nortti> but I don't remember where
14:20:27 <fizzie> Cirth and Tengwar are still at 160xx in http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/smp/
14:21:06 <fizzie> (But the proposal is from 1997 already.)
14:24:15 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: roughtly speaking, 1. attestation in the actual texts 2. willingness of the community 3. suitability of encoding
14:24:52 <fizzie> Klingon (also proposed by Everson at the same time) was formally rejected for lack of evidence for point 1.
14:24:54 <lifthrasiir> I think Klingon was rejected because of 2 (the *actual* Klingon speakers use Latin transliterations)
14:25:13 <fizzie> Depends on how you want to think about it, I guess.
14:27:04 <lifthrasiir> fizzie: if the script has enough notability and (usage and/or research), probably 1 is not a concern
14:27:18 <fizzie> For Tengwar, there's an actual published periodical (http://www.elvish.org/VT/) and all.
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16:56:23 <int-e> shachaf: which "usual" meaning of "pidgin" did you have in mind? in any case, the wisdom entry resulted from a discussion about IRC clients, IIRC.
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18:46:36 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/AsaClassCruiser.PNG
18:46:59 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/AsaLaunchConfig.PNG
18:47:17 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/AsaLeavingKerbin.PNG
18:47:43 <moon_> virtualbox is fixed
18:50:56 <gamemanj> what, exactly, did oren do to cause a "biome Highlands" when nowhere near the planet in question
18:51:34 <gamemanj> and who would need a smokescreen
18:52:08 <gamemanj> unless... Aha! \oren\ is actually a Kerbal spy!
18:52:29 <gamemanj> ...also, that is one big cruiser.
18:53:31 <izabera> \oren\: your font doesn't have japanese numbers?
18:53:39 <gamemanj> (I also like the screen-space optimization you've got going on there with the 7-pixel-high font in the launch config...)
18:54:58 <gamemanj> izabera: maybe try looking in the "Chinese Characters" section... 三
18:55:24 <gamemanj> at least, 三 seems to translate to "three" according to Google Translate - it's possible I'm just uninformed.
18:56:32 <ais523> gamemanj: it means "three" but it's also sometimes used phonetically
18:56:51 <ais523> kind-of like people writing "l8r" to mean "later" in text messages
18:57:26 <gamemanj> also, that font has awesome things
18:57:42 <gamemanj> (Translation: that font has awesssss...omethings.)
18:57:46 <moon_> How do i set the path for non interactive shells?
18:58:35 <myname> in whatever config they read
18:59:07 <ais523> moon_: «export PATH=» and the path in their config file
18:59:08 <izabera> 1一 2二 3三 4四 5五 6六 7七 8八 9力 10十 ok these are all in \oren\'s font
18:59:15 <izabera> but i expected them to be contiguous
19:01:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:07:21 <\oren\> izabera: unicode doesn't have them contiguous
19:08:06 <\oren\> I have all kanji from grades 1-6 in Japan if that helps
19:10:37 <\oren\> This cruiser is heading to Duna and Ike to conduct orbital reconnaissance
19:11:07 <\oren\> It has 3 years of food, water and oxygen aboard
19:11:22 <\oren\> hauling that stuff takes a lot of fuel.
19:11:37 <\oren\> so the whole thing is therefore pretty big
19:13:53 <zzo38> One idea to avoid having to convert a keysym to a string and then to a quark each time a key is pushed in my program might be, when the resources are loaded to create an array of the sorted keysyms mapping them to the quarks, and then search that array using bsearch to find the quark corresponding to a keysym.
19:29:15 <izabera> what stupid system doesn't have contiguous numbers?
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19:31:47 <gamemanj> izabera: well, they're not always digits (see what ais523 said)
19:32:12 <gamemanj> izabera: so they're closer to just random letters, arranged in whatever order it was decided they should be arranged in
19:32:24 <izabera> then they decided a stupid order
19:32:38 <gamemanj> only from a numeric perspective
19:35:06 <zzo38> How to convert GContext to GC with Xlib? (Such thing might want to be done if you want to create a shareable GC)
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19:36:19 <zzo38> I do not quite understand the point of your question
19:36:38 <gamemanj> I mean, AFAIK Xorg has No Real Protection (tm) against applications messing with other applications anyway (see: Every fullscreen application that abuses XRandr ever), so there's no downside to passing a sub-window
19:39:23 <zzo38> Yes, you can share a window, font, or whatever, but it depend what you want to share
19:42:55 <gamemanj> so apparently a GContext is a CARD32.
19:44:45 <zzo38> Yes, and can be stored in a property or selection or event or whatever, like any other ID.
19:45:14 <gamemanj> Which would be lovely if I could even actually find in any of this what a "GC" actually is.
19:45:35 <gamemanj> Xlib.h defines it with a typedef
19:46:11 <zzo38> "GC" is an opaque type used in Xlib. You can convert a GC to a GContext, but not the other way around, it seems.
19:47:21 <gamemanj> now you know why passing a window ID might be easier
19:47:43 <zzo38> Yes, but it does not help if the ID you want to share is not a window ID.
19:48:39 <gamemanj> Would be lovely, but things that return GCs seem to be... few and far between
19:49:55 <gamemanj> also, Xlib seems to keep spooky internal fields
19:50:06 <gamemanj> at least, that's what they say...
19:51:22 <zzo38> Something like this would do: GC XGetGC(Display*,GC,GContext); GC XUngetGC(GC);
19:51:37 <gamemanj> those spooky internal fields are why they don't let you do that
19:51:59 <gamemanj> some data it can't extrapolate from the ID
19:52:19 <gamemanj> are you sure it has to be a GContext?
19:53:06 <gamemanj> because by the look of it you'd have to allocate a GC, then swap around an internal field, and hope Xlib doesn't notice
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19:53:46 <zzo38> Can't it to retrieve the extra data from the server?
19:53:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 261800Z 21010G16KT 30SM FEW060 FEW180 BKN250 31/15 A3005 RMK CU1AC1CI7 CU TR AC TR SLP176 DENSITY ALT 1800FT
19:55:04 <gamemanj> I mean, in theory there shouldn't be any extra data
19:55:46 <zzo38> I would think the extra data would be any pending GC changes
19:56:10 <gamemanj> Well, trouble is they don't document it for some insane reason
19:56:49 <gamemanj> "there is more to this structure, but it is private to Xlib"
19:57:00 <gamemanj> but in a more complicated manner
19:57:07 <gamemanj> (and being more annoying about it)
19:59:00 <moon_> Hbot now allows you to execute raw python as well
20:01:48 <moon_> It is, and i discovered i made a mistake, someone else decided to write the python execution script, so nvm on python exec until later
20:02:02 <moon_> Plus my version was bugged
20:02:14 <gamemanj> (and I didn't even get a chance to mess with it, either)
20:02:20 <gamemanj> (I tried many iterations of "help"...)
20:02:49 <gamemanj> trying to find out what commands it has
20:03:06 <gamemanj> unless your hbot wasn't the hbot that recently left?
20:03:56 <moon_> Oh, hbot is running in #hbot and #esoteric-blah
20:04:09 <moon_> enough people use hbot for it to have a channel :P
20:04:26 <moon_> >>> ( we changed it due to a quirk in the ezzybot framework
20:04:32 <gamemanj> (suffice to say I don't want to have to start with the elvish next time it joins to try and get it to output a command listing)
20:14:55 <zzo38> The file Xlibint.h has all of the internal structures. In addition to the stuff I expected, it has variables "rects" and "dashes"
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20:26:02 <moon_> Welp, hbot is still not working with its new python support yet
20:31:10 <moon_> Can anyone help out? we are failing badly at getting hbot to run python
20:31:13 <moon_> We need someone who can do python :P
20:43:13 <gamemanj> jaboja: if you are a human, what is the best way to perform: 64 + 192
20:44:34 <jaboja> I would run python and see what it returns
20:55:01 <quintopia> gamemanj: jaboja has already proven humanity. "i would push it off onto someone else if i have to but since i don't i will do nothing" is the most human possible answer
20:55:42 <quintopia> anyway, i can python a python sometimes. how much do you pay for such help?
20:59:05 -!- Etaoin has joined.
20:59:14 <Etaoin> hello friends I am here
21:02:31 <Etaoin> aw is it the wrong character?
21:03:12 <HackEgo> montreal//Montreal is a city in Canada that somehow is obsessed with Vietnamese cuisine.
21:03:33 <Etaoin> ah it's just very slow
21:05:44 <gamemanj> HackEgo lives in a castle of sandbags to protect iself
21:05:53 <gamemanj> However, this makes it very slow to communicate with
21:06:05 <gamemanj> since the requests have to navigate the castle,
21:06:13 <gamemanj> while avoiding all of HackEgo's evil traps! :)
21:07:10 <HackEgo> twnh//twnh is dubious hambiguitous help that will or will not be help. It is provided by a toe with no hair.
21:07:17 <Etaoin> idk with all the bells and whistles of hackego I somehow prefer fungot
21:07:18 <fungot> Etaoin: " more logic p0rn at fnord!') code is perfectly ok for other people reading your code first. it is defined
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21:22:14 <fizzie> The trouble with fungot is the lack of persistence.
21:22:15 <fungot> fizzie: english auxiliaries are fucked up on the discussion list" though. :p))) without letting me see the perl script to complete the operation ( ' this record set the field x to be more, eh, specbot?
21:23:36 <fizzie> And there are some limits as to what's practical to do with brainfuck delivered over IRC, though there's a mechanism that allows to construct a program incrementally to go beyond the line lenght limit.
21:23:42 <myname> i amnpretty amazed for what is possible with befunge
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21:31:53 <Etaoin> myname, isn't befunge turing complete?
21:32:49 <ais523> Etaoin: befunge-93 is a push-down automaton unless you use bignum arithmetic
21:33:01 <ais523> it only has a finitely large playfield and a stack
21:33:12 <ais523> befunge-98's use of a stack stack makes it turing-complete, I think
21:33:14 <Etaoin> fungot is written in befunge-95 iirc
21:33:14 <fungot> Etaoin: i think i've done that much without any sleep a few times
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21:46:31 <\oren\> what characters should I add next?
21:50:13 <fizzie> (I don't think -95 exists; -96 and -97 do, but only barely.)
21:50:19 <Etaoin> so it is turing complete therefore myname's amazement isn't justified ^_^
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21:59:13 <myname> Etaoin: well, being theoretically able to do everything and doing something useful are two different things
21:59:44 <Etaoin> I have to agree what fungot does in that language really is quite remarkable :)
21:59:44 <fungot> Etaoin: or it couldn't build it on top level?
22:07:45 <fizzie> ^ that's the secret, it's just built on top level.
22:08:40 <fizzie> A Befunge-98 variant with non-local function calls would be an eminently practical language.
22:09:12 <fizzie> There's a couple of function calls in the fungot sources, but they're pretty inconvenient to do, since you have to deal with routing execution back to any of the potential callsites.
22:09:12 <fungot> fizzie: you sleep in the dining room studying, and someone said at assembly that music was ripped from fnord
22:10:25 <Etaoin> why does it keep repeating fnord
22:11:52 <fizzie> Those :1-#<| and :2-#<| and #<| sequences (read from down to up) on approximately the rightmost column of lines 258-263, 231-236 and 225-227 are part of the machinery to return from the sub-interpreters so that ^ul/^bf/^def can share code.
22:12:45 <fizzie> And it keeps repeating fnord because that's the placeholder word it uses when the language model synthesizes the "out-of-vocabulary word" token that was used to replace overly rare words.
22:13:20 <fizzie> (In some styles. Other styles are unpruned that way and entirely fnord-free.)
22:13:53 <fizzie> At least that's intentional. The fact that Charles Darwin uses emoticons all over the place wasn't.
22:13:58 <fungot> Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy)
22:14:14 <myname> so a function call,in fungot is actually a push of the "local scope integer" which gets looked up upon return?
22:14:14 <fizzie> fungot: So are you saying my parents were apes?
22:14:15 <fungot> myname: with respect to editors, mr. gould as distinct species, and those from/ long-styled form; both these sets correspond in length with advancing age :) characters derived from seeds are generally :) extreme thinness; and on analysis by mr. frankland, was carefully examined;/ seeds were also conspicuously larger than those :)/
22:14:15 <fungot> fizzie: " 658? 1. published in/ :( atlantic monthly,' 1859, p. 5.
22:14:43 <fizzie> myname: Pretty much, yes. It's the "standard" way to do it.
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22:15:35 <fizzie> I used to have, as a signature block, a simple recursive Fibonacci in Befunge-93.
22:16:41 <fizzie> Not sure if that's the final form.
22:16:59 <myname> "it's not even the final form!!!11"
22:18:22 <ais523> fizzie: haha, I take it you're using the Befunge stack as a callstack?
22:18:28 <fizzie> It's one of the canonical examples of recursion.
22:19:18 <izabera> why fibonacci in your signature?
22:19:53 <fizzie> Oh. Well, I mean, I wanted something compact in Befunge. It seemed like the thing to do. I didn't keep it for long.
22:20:20 <fizzie> People had JAPH programs etc.
22:20:31 <izabera> japh doesn't print fibonacci
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22:20:35 <izabera> shouldn't you write a jabh?
22:21:25 <izabera> but maybe fibonacci is more interesting
22:21:58 <fizzie> I didn't have any particularly creative ideas for a JABH. And I had already spent a while compacting "fibre" (that thing) into a small-ish rectangle.
22:22:03 <fizzie> I think mooz helped a little.
22:23:11 <Etaoin> I still somehow feel obfuscated c code is less readable than befunge
22:23:18 <fizzie> myname: JAPH is an obfuscated Perl program that prints "Just another Perl hacker." -- by extension, JABH would be the same except s/Perl/Befunge/ for both the content and the language.
22:23:57 <fizzie> Etaoin: That would probably depend on whether the Befunge code is (intentionally) obfuscated.
22:24:14 <izabera> more obfuscate than just being befunge?!
22:25:13 <fizzie> Befunge is generally much more easier to write than to read, at least IME, and I've heard that from others as well.
22:25:34 <myname> i always wondered if people defined golfong in befunge
22:26:02 <myname> like, do you count chars? lines? area? circumference?
22:26:28 <Etaoin> that should be a subrequirement
22:26:45 <Etaoin> in case two languages have the same amount of characters the one that uses the least pixels wins
22:27:02 <fizzie> I would wager a guess most Befunge golfing that goes on happens at anagol, and that just counts bytes in the source file.
22:27:45 <myname> if pixels would be relevant, you could make a substitution language that replaces the most common commands with .,:…; etc
22:28:48 <Etaoin> I was thinking recently that if we defined a transistor's operation as f(x,y) = if y then x else 0, assuming that's correct, any language that has an if else statement is turing complete
22:28:58 <ais523> fizzie: ppcg also uses bytes in the source file for befunge, I believe
22:29:05 <Etaoin> though I'm fairly certain transistors are a bit more complicated than that
22:29:06 <ais523> (and similar languages such as hexagony)
22:29:42 <ais523> although interestingly, it has a rule that for unicode-heavy languages, you can use either utf-16 or utf-8
22:30:51 <myname> i'd say area would be i much nicer measurement for bf golfing
22:32:25 <Etaoin> well since only 3 bits are needed to store a brainfuck command and since even that can be further reduced with "switch" operators maybe we could just divide the amount of bytes by 2.667
22:33:01 <Etaoin> unless bf is befunge here ^^
22:34:00 <izabera> how is area different from byte count?
22:34:36 <fizzie> That has an area of 8 and a byte count of 6.
22:34:54 <Etaoin> if you use the term arguably loosely
22:35:30 <fizzie> At least for the "area of bounding box" definition, which is admittedly only one of them.
22:35:41 <myname> izabera: it forces you to think in other ways
22:35:47 <fizzie> (It could also have an area of 5, but that's still quite different from the byte count.)
22:35:56 <myname> like, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is worse that xxxx\nxxxx
22:36:10 <fizzie> Well, that's true for both.
22:36:27 <myname> you'd need to make solutions as quadratic as possible
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22:36:30 * ais523 considers making a language where the only meaningful thing is the shape of the bounding box
22:36:35 <myname> i think that'd be funny
22:36:59 <izabera> wouldn't a vertical line be more efficient than a square?
22:37:05 <izabera> because you don't count newlines
22:37:21 <myname> i wouldn't count newlines
22:37:43 <myname> a vertical line is worse that a horizontal line
22:38:02 <myname> and you may or may not count newlines
22:38:12 <myname> if you don't, it is equally bad
22:38:21 <fizzie> Anyway, I think many "area"-like definitions *would* be more natural, since "xxxx\nx" and "xxxx\n x" really "should" be the same "size".
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22:40:01 <izabera> i just thought that with a vertical line you get many free bytes, even if they're all newlines
22:40:13 <izabera> not sure if this is any useful in befunge
22:40:32 <myname> newlines do not have any meaning as far as i know
22:41:25 <fizzie> They only affect where the other source characters end up in the playfield.
22:41:42 <izabera> is it harder to make a squarer program?
22:42:51 <myname> that's the question. fizzies fibonacci has about 50 commands in an area of 3*19=57
22:43:38 <myname> maybe circumference of the mbb is better
22:44:03 <myname> then it would be 3+3+19+19=44
22:44:30 <myname> whereas a squere with 8*8i64 possible chars only has a circumference of 4*8=32
22:45:11 <moon_> i wonder how much code i would have to write to allow a ghci interface over hbot in python..
22:47:01 <izabera> probably more than in sh with common tools
22:47:16 <myname> http://phpthegoodparts.tumblr.com
22:47:26 <moon_> Lisp? i could try :P
22:47:33 <fizzie> In a one-line program, if you need to go both ways you generally need to "waste" some characters to #s. In a more squarish program, you generally need to "waste" some characters to ^v<>. It's really a matter of how well you manage to structure your code to avoid either kind of waste, keeping in mind that conditionals by nature change direction, and it's possible to e.g. use _ to do a ...
22:47:39 <fizzie> ... combination of < and $ in a single command if you happen to know the value you want to $ is nonzero.
22:48:20 <fizzie> (Those are called "drop ifs".)
22:49:14 <myname> yeah, but circumference force you to be more squareish since a squre has the lowest circumference (of any rectangle) for any given area
22:50:16 <ais523> fizzie: actually, something that I've been thinking about in stack-based language design
22:50:18 <fizzie> Sure, in an asymptotic sense.
22:50:27 <ais523> is whether it's better for commands to leave values on the stack and force extra pops
22:50:32 <ais523> or consume them and force extra duplicates
22:51:27 <fizzie> I'm only really familiar with the latter kind.
22:52:04 <myname> ais523: if you really make something out of the bounding box idea, tell me. otherwise. i may think about it
22:52:26 <ais523> myname: I'm not planning to think about it much
22:52:28 <ais523> too many other esolang ideas
22:52:48 <ais523> there's one I'm thinking about that seems really promising as a new paradigm but that will be a pain to write
22:52:54 <ais523> either in terms of spec or impl
22:53:51 <ais523> it reminds me of functional reactive programming, but probably isn't identical
22:54:36 <Etaoin> is it possible to #define an array in c?
22:54:57 <ais523> Etaoin: your question is a little confused
22:55:01 <ais523> you might want to clarify what you mean
22:55:05 <moon_> I dont even get what our talking about ^_^
22:55:06 <ais523> note that #define is a textual substitution
22:55:18 <ais523> that runs before the rest of the program is parsed
22:55:27 <ais523> so you can certainly use #define to construct parts of an array declaration, or the like
22:55:32 <Etaoin> yeah I'm daft NEVER MIND haha
22:57:36 <fizzie> Compound literals might also be relevant in whatever the underlying context there was.
22:58:22 <izabera> Etaoin: #define array(x) int array[x];
22:58:23 <pikhq> ais523: Well, ish. You can't really get arbitrary strings out of it, "just" arbitrary tokens.
22:58:37 <pikhq> (mind, the distinction is... silly and pedantic)
22:59:08 <ais523> pikhq: actually I ran into practical problems with that on mingw
22:59:18 <ais523> I have a macro that stringizes its argument
22:59:21 <Etaoin> I just forgot macro functions aren't actually functions that run at compile time :)
22:59:22 <ais523> and am using it like this:
22:59:31 <ais523> stringize(C:\Users\ais523)
22:59:43 <ais523> this textually becomes "C:\Users\ais523" which doesn't parse
22:59:56 <ais523> presumably mingw is reasoning that as \ is not a valid token, it doesn't need to escape it
23:00:21 <izabera> it's just putting in quotes whatever you pass as an argument
23:00:21 <pikhq> Huh... I had not even thought about that.
23:01:30 <ais523> it still needs to escape "
23:01:33 <fizzie> 23:01 <fizzie> ,cc #define stringize(x) #x \n puts(stringize(foo"bar"baz));
23:01:33 <fizzie> 23:01 <candide> fizzie: foo"bar"baz
23:01:47 <ais523> fizzie: try that with a backslash escape inside the "bar" string
23:02:13 <fizzie> 23:02 <fizzie> ,cc #define stringize(x) #x \n puts(stringize(foo"bar\nquux"baz));
23:02:16 <fizzie> 23:02 <candide> fizzie: foo"bar\nquux"baz
23:02:25 <ais523> that's exactly what I expected
23:02:29 <ais523> (and IIRC what mingw did in my tests)
23:02:39 <ais523> it'd escape \ inside a string literal, but not outside
23:02:41 <izabera> i heard that c compilers are cheap these days
23:02:46 <izabera> so you don't have to query candide
23:03:09 <ais523> yes but even using the -x c /dev/stdin trick
23:03:12 <fizzie> The user interface is much more convenient.
23:03:12 <ais523> it's more typing than using a bot
23:03:14 <\oren\> Space Cruiser Asa has arrived at Duna! http://orenwatson.be/AsaAtDuna.PNG
23:03:30 <izabera> what are these screenshots?
23:03:41 <fizzie> Making a candide-style script has long been on my to-do list.
23:04:02 <fizzie> It does a lot of stuff not entirely apparent from the above simple examples.
23:04:23 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/candide
23:05:01 <Etaoin> https://www.facebook.com/mochadepressotogoplease/videos/650852988399077/
23:05:27 <ais523> fizzie: even with those examples, it's apparent that it's doing something special wrt main
23:05:38 <ais523> also I didn't realise that candide was izabera's
23:05:57 <gamemanj> izabera: the screenshots are of a proprietary interface to a complicated and downright insane physics-engine based simulation of the interaction of solid bodies that represent liquid, solid and organic-carrying vessels for the purposes of interplanetary travel within a fictional system.
23:06:02 <fizzie> I'd kind of want the fancy gdb integration and print-locals stuff.
23:06:16 <izabera> well, the actual candide is on github too
23:06:34 <gamemanj> (izabera: translation: the screenshots \oren\ is posting are of Kerbal Space Program.)
23:07:18 <gamemanj> (you can see it in the text at the top)
23:07:49 <izabera> ah written text, my old enemy
23:10:43 <fizzie> Huh, I didn't know the World of Goo people had made one of them programmering games as well.
23:12:41 <fizzie> http://store.steampowered.com/app/375820/ popped up in my "queue".
23:12:48 <gamemanj> on Wikipedia, "2D Boy" redirects to "World Of Goo"
23:13:04 <gamemanj> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2D_Boy&redirect=no
23:14:04 <Etaoin> world of goo is great though
23:14:22 <Etaoin> human resource machine too!
23:14:37 <fizzie> It could redirect to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow_Corporation instead, at least.
23:14:51 <ais523> hmm, all these programming games
23:14:57 <ais523> and yet I still like BF Joust best
23:15:04 <ais523> (although I've played a bunch of Rubicon too)
23:15:16 <ais523> hmm, the common feature between those games is that they're both based on esolangs
23:15:24 <ais523> like, specific, named esolangs that existed beforehand
23:15:37 <ais523> rather than inventing one for the purpose of the game
23:15:41 <gamemanj> so, basically, you like esolang-based games
23:15:53 <fizzie> I liked TIS-100 even though it invented the language.
23:16:20 <izabera> why would they design a new language when there are existing well tested ones?
23:16:48 <int-e> "merged to World of Goo, developed only 1 game, all notability tied to that article" *shrugs*
23:17:07 <gamemanj> wow, Tomorrow Corporation's FAQ is really useful
23:17:30 <ais523> izabera: most esolangs aren't very well tested :-)
23:18:01 <gamemanj> in fact, I'd say that if reading their FAQ, make sure to have "format" implemented as something which more or less emulates the DOS version (by guessing which drive letter the drives should be)
23:19:03 <int-e> to be fair, the merge predates the release of that Human Resource Factory game.
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23:20:09 <gamemanj> Does it predate "Little Inferno"?
23:21:18 <fizzie> Human Resource Factory and Little Inferno both are from Tomorrow Corporation, not 2D Boy.
23:22:33 <izabera> \oren\: https://github.com/nojhan/liquidprompt ⏚ ⌁ 🕤 etc
23:22:39 <int-e> right, didn't read https://2dboy.com/ carefully enough
23:30:27 <quintopia> ais523: what are your thoughts on manufactoria
23:30:45 <ais523> I've never heard of it
23:30:52 <Etaoin> is it possible to define a logical not function from f(x,y) = if x then y else 0?
23:31:47 <tswett> Never mind, I read you wrong.
23:32:08 <Etaoin> you thought it said if x then x else 0?
23:32:20 <Etaoin> no wait that doesn't make sense either ^^
23:32:35 <tswett> Nah, I thought you were asking if it was possible to define such a function as f(x,y) = if x then y else 0.
23:33:04 <tswett> What sort of thing is x?
23:33:11 <int-e> Etaoin: f(0,0) = 0 means that if all inputs are 0, you cannot ever get 1.
23:33:24 <quintopia> ais523: implausible, but i'll take your word for it
23:33:46 <Etaoin> I'd need a built in not operation in f(x,y) right?
23:33:54 <ais523> quintopia: there are lots of things I haven't heard of
23:33:57 <Etaoin> something like f(x,y) = if x then y else !y
23:34:12 <Etaoin> or if !x then y else 0 maybe?
23:34:21 <int-e> also f(x,y) is monotonic in both arguments... another reason why this will fail.
23:34:30 <quintopia> ais523: it's just it seemed like the kind of thing people who hang out here would be into
23:34:46 <quintopia> and it's been around for...five years now? more?
23:34:48 <Etaoin> what does monotonic mean?
23:35:06 <quintopia> http://pleasingfungus.com/Manufactoria/
23:35:49 <int-e> Etaoin: x <= x' implies f(x,y) <= f(x',y) for all x,x' and y; similarly for the second argument.
23:36:11 <fizzie> Etaoin: If both x and y are just booleans, then f(x,y) = if x then y else 0 is just the same thing as f(x,y) = x and y.
23:36:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:36:58 <Etaoin> this actually makes a lot of sense, why do I never think any of this through ^_^
23:39:27 <int-e> Etaoin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_completeness#Characterization_of_functional_completeness may offer some inspiration (though you don't need functional completeness if all you want to get out is negation; negation is affine in that terminology.)
23:40:45 <HackEgo> U+1F914 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f a4 94 UTF-16BE: d83edd14 Decimal: 🤔 \ 🤔 (🤔) \ Uppercase: U+1F914 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \ \ U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE \ UTF-8: ef bb bf UTF-16BE: feff Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
23:43:21 <ais523> strangely, my client can render it
23:43:24 <ais523> despite HackEgo not knowing what it is
23:43:47 <fizzie> The Unicode database used by unidecode is a couple of Unicode releases old.
23:44:00 <Etaoin> not specifically negation, just looking for a single instruction "processor" with the simplest possible instruction
23:44:40 <gamemanj> Specifically, the processor behind it, but you'll need the 16MiB of RAM to do much useful stuff with it
23:45:04 <gamemanj> Like, you can fit a small visual novel into 16MiB, in BytePusher, with music. (Actually the music's most of the problem.)
23:45:46 -!- moon__ has joined.
23:45:47 <ais523> gamemanj: I take it you've tried?
23:45:57 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:45:59 <int-e> Etaoin: if you just want to produce circuits, nand is a popular choice. (There are only two binary operations on Booleans that are functionally complete by themselved; the other one is nor)
23:47:20 <gamemanj> ais523: Well, I didn't get around to trying to compress the music
23:47:43 <int-e> . o O ( sdeddesd )
23:47:44 <ais523> when I played music in a limited system (microcontroller, not eso)
23:47:50 <Etaoin> I know about these of course, was thinking of something either lower level such as defining a single transistor and using it as the only command, or something more high level such as a loop :)
23:47:53 <ais523> I basically expressed it as a list of (frequency, duration) pairs
23:48:22 <ais523> Etaoin: I don't believe it's possible to do useful computations using nothing but identical transistors
23:48:29 <ais523> you either need two different sorts of transistor, or to add in resistors
23:48:34 <Etaoin> who's talking about useful
23:48:50 <ais523> that said, there's such a thing as diode transistor logic, hmm
23:48:52 <int-e> `` sed sDedDesD <<<themselved
23:49:14 <gamemanj> ais523: Yeah, except what was going on was more or less: 1. Yay, so there's a free visual novel that's creative-commons licenced! Let's port it!
23:49:17 <ais523> Etaoin: "useful" as in "not hideously degenerate"
23:49:36 <Etaoin> I repeat, who's talking about useful :D
23:49:39 <ais523> OK, DTL needs resistors to function too
23:50:05 <Etaoin> those don't seem that big a problem honestly
23:50:15 <Etaoin> just another variable to add to the function
23:50:55 <ais523> Etaoin: yes, but I was thinking more in the golfing sense
23:50:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:51:19 <ais523> (the usual version I see, at least from computer scientists, is "n-channel FET" and "p-channel FET" as the minimum set of components)
23:51:23 <gamemanj> 2. Oh noes, the music is making things difficult! Solution A. Transcribe music to module format & write player? Too difficult, too much work, and CPU limits. Solution B. Lossy compression. Music sounds awful enough already, + too much work. And CPU limits. C. Lossless compression? Didn't occur to me at the time. And too much work, and CPU limits...
23:51:27 <ais523> (when working at the transistor level)
23:52:07 <gamemanj> (well, if either of those can be singularly made to act as a NOR gate, you should be fine with one)
23:52:32 <gamemanj> (... actually, then again, you need the occasional thing to add some gain to the signal)
23:52:50 <Etaoin> (not if the signal itself is completely simulated)
23:53:17 <gamemanj> (If you want to go with stuff that's simulated, then just work in logic gates)
23:53:32 <gamemanj> (If you want to work in terms of real components, then work in those...)
23:53:58 <Etaoin> (I would (but that's not the spirit of convoluted esolangs))
23:56:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
23:58:14 <gamemanj> Etaoin: so your components act in the general sense of ideal FET components, with any additional rules you may set?
23:59:02 <Etaoin> I'll see how I feel about it in a few days
23:59:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:10:00 <^v> i was pinged
00:10:03 <^v> <fizzie> In a one-line program, if you need to go both ways you generally need to "waste" some characters to #s. In a more squarish program, you generally need to "waste" some characters to ^v<>. It's really a matter of how well you manage to structure your code to avoid either kind of waste, keeping in mind that conditionals by nature change direction, and it's possible to e.g. use _ to do a ...
00:11:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:14:43 <oerjan> <\oren\> how does one catch oneself from saying things that will inadvertently show one's age? <-- the only way is to stay away from this new-fangled information superhighway thing hth
00:16:49 <Etaoin> you'd basically have to not reference anything that happened in more than the past 5 years as something you've experienced but rather as something you know happened because you've heard/read about it. also not saying your age would help as well
00:18:26 <oerjan> but if you, like, say you read about the 9/11 event then you're showing yourself as _young_ instead.
00:19:24 <Etaoin> in case you aren't wouldn't that throw them off?
00:20:12 <oerjan> well you can of course deceive either way.
00:20:34 <oerjan> i remember when nixon did that.
00:21:09 * oerjan whistles innoc^Wtransparently
00:21:34 <Etaoin> but honestly I lived through 9/11 and was conscious enough to remember it but it wasn't a thing that was that important here at that time
00:21:52 <oerjan> (theoretically, i _could_ have, i guess, but i don't remember anything from back when i was 4...
00:22:40 <Etaoin> I was 5 then and while I do remember some things about it, I remember it being not very prominent
00:22:48 <Etaoin> we ARE talking about croatia
00:23:14 <Etaoin> some countries cared less about 9/11 is what I'm saying
00:23:16 <oerjan> just add nationality to the things you don't want to show
00:24:37 <Etaoin> my real question is, of all the things one can hide about themselves, why age?
00:25:11 <oerjan> i guess \oren\ is just in a sensitive one :P
00:25:49 <oerjan> not here, it's after midnight
00:25:55 <oerjan> not in croatia either, i bet
00:26:09 <Etaoin> pretty much high moon really
00:26:40 * oerjan hasn't checked out the moon today, it was cloudy
00:27:26 <oerjan> hm full moon was a week ago. so presumably pretty half now.
00:27:29 <moon__> hbot is being annoying
00:27:54 <oerjan> is it trying to take over the world
00:28:01 <oerjan> you need to give i a stupid sidekick
00:28:13 <moon__> Its not running some things right
00:28:40 <Etaoin> then you need to give it to a clever protagonist
00:28:41 <oerjan> hm google says that's from portal
00:28:47 * oerjan doesn't really play games
00:29:06 <moon__> It certainly is, and you mean Portal 2
00:29:36 <Etaoin> I meant the franchise, oerjan meant portal 2 :)
00:30:49 <Etaoin> can someone help me wrap my head around lambda calculus?
00:32:25 <oerjan> yes, but i cannot promise your head will survive the twisting
00:33:30 <Etaoin> I fancy myself competent enough :D
00:36:06 <oerjan> imo lambda calculus is about taking the concepts of (mathematical) variables and functions and distilling them down to their bare essence.
00:39:46 <oerjan> (wait what did i get myself into)
00:40:19 <gamemanj> (I'm tired. Why are people talking about a high moon?)
00:41:30 <Etaoin> I understand application and that jazz, but how exactly is a function defined?
00:42:07 <oerjan> a function is a lambda abstraction. \ variable . expression
00:42:20 * oerjan cannot be bothered to type a real lambda
00:42:35 <Etaoin> this expression can be anything?
00:43:00 <oerjan> any lambda calculus expression yes.
00:43:20 <oerjan> in pure lambda calculus all you have is variables, applications, and lambda abstractions.
00:43:44 <Etaoin> how do you define say f x = x^2 in it then?
00:43:59 <Phantom__Hoover> Etaoin, in pure lambda calculus a function is just a pattern of application, basically
00:44:11 <oerjan> well that requires you to have some concept of numbers and exponentiation.
00:44:18 <Phantom__Hoover> its arguments are functions and it applies them in some way or another
00:44:32 <oerjan> you can either put those in as extras, or encode them as other lambda expressions.
00:44:34 <moon__> Who here has played/plays dwarf fortress?
00:44:47 <Phantom__Hoover> so e.g. you define the natural numbers as taking functions f and x and applying f to x n times.
00:45:14 <oerjan> fine, i see Phantom__Hoover takes over.
00:45:51 <Etaoin> moon__, I've played it a little but stopped inexplicably
00:46:41 <moon__> How come? The graphics or the unintuitivity?
00:46:48 <quintopia> gamemanj: moon was smokin' somethin' potent
00:46:56 <oerjan> surely you mean inevitably
00:47:32 <quintopia> I hear it's got a steep learning curve, but once learned is quite Fun™
00:47:53 <moon__> The 'steep learning curve' is just mostly a joke
00:48:04 <moon__> The wiki helps a lot to squash it
00:48:17 <Etaoin> moon__, neither really. pretty sure soon after I downloaded it my computer had some issues and I had to reinstall whichever OS I was using at the time
00:48:22 <quintopia> ...it's a game where you need to read a wiki to play
00:48:38 <moon__> Its just one page to help newbies get started
00:48:55 <Etaoin> I love the aesthetics of it and don't find it that unintuitive
00:49:11 <Etaoin> バスツアー Ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ ｓｈｉｔ スツ ｔｈａｔｓ モール ｓｏｍｅ Ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ バス ｓｈｉｔ ｒｉｇｈｔ モールモールｔｈｅｒｅ メキシコシティーｒｉｇｈｔ ツアｔｈｅｒｅ ピングモール ｉｆ ｉ ｄｏ ｓａｙ ｓｏ ｍｙｓｅｌｆ ブルｉ ｓａｙ ｓｏ バス ｔｈａｔｓ ｗｈａｔ ｉｍ ｔａ
00:49:36 <moon__> Toady added adventuremode building and 64bit is coming up Phantom__Hoover
00:50:17 <Phantom__Hoover> the extra registers might make the main game thread run a bit faster i suppose
00:50:17 <moon__> Eh, more memory for bigger fortresses
00:50:30 <quintopia> has anyone written a utility to compile DF maps to minecraft maps?
00:50:34 <Phantom__Hoover> i don't remember ever running up against memory issues, you'd hit FPS death first
00:50:35 <gamemanj> if you think about it, DF is a rather well-optimized and tuned game on 32-bit
00:51:13 <gamemanj> (I was hoping my complete lack of knowledge would go unnoticed!)
00:51:16 <Etaoin> I just wanna feel like I'm part of the chat
00:51:41 <Phantom__Hoover> gamemanj, i remember when just the temperature calculations alone would take the game from 60FPS to 30 on my machine
00:51:53 <moon__> Temp calculations are better i hope
00:52:03 <moon__> unless ur pc is on old hardware
00:52:06 <Phantom__Hoover> i think it's a bit better now but there were trivial optimisations that dfhack added that removed most of that hit
00:52:06 <gamemanj> (TBH, I kind of thought such things as multithreading were already implemented or else it would have already been melting machines)
00:52:20 <Etaoin> >caring about FPS in an ASCII game
00:52:36 <gamemanj> Etaoin: it's not exactly a text adventure :)
00:52:46 <moon__> The FPS means how fast the game is processing everything
00:52:54 <gamemanj> (Though I guess Adventurer Mode might count?)
00:53:05 <moon__> Adventure mode is also graphical
00:53:18 <moon__> and supports a lot of functions from fortress mode
00:53:19 <Phantom__Hoover> gamemanj, DF these days has a rendering thread and the thread that does the game and everything else, i think
00:53:34 <gamemanj> (I mean sim speed, which is presumably what Etaoin meant by FPS)
00:53:47 <gamemanj> (With Adventurer mode the whole thing's held up on user input anyway)
00:53:53 <Phantom__Hoover> making the latter multithreaded would probably be an enormous boost to performance but it'd require a herculean amount of refactoring to even be able to start
00:54:34 <moon__> the game is too big to multithread without looking like someone trying to get to the other side of a pool of peanut butter
00:55:07 <gamemanj> That's an interesting way of saying "a mess"
00:55:21 <moon__> i made it up on the spot xP
00:55:49 <moon__> We should move this DF related discussion to #dwarffortress, it fits a bit better there
00:55:56 <Etaoin> is it smooth or chunky peanut butter?
00:56:28 <gamemanj> Etaoin: Think of what would happen if you cut peanut butter into randomly shaped pieces around one cubic centimetre in volume
00:56:55 <gamemanj> and then arranged them into the form that a game's code might take if it were a physical being
00:57:10 <gamemanj> ...and then threw a jar of pepper at it
00:57:33 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:57:39 <moon__> Also, anyone want to try their hand at a newbie succession fort for lols?
00:58:11 <gamemanj> depends if you want the fortress to die before it's first year
00:58:12 <Phantom__Hoover> i'd be so down for another #esoteric succession fort but i'm not really a newbie any more
00:58:35 <moon__> ill take the first turn
00:58:35 <Phantom__Hoover> i like succession forts because i don't have to set down the initial floorplan and agonise over the large-scale design
00:58:50 <gamemanj> Well, if I didn't have something that will take up...
00:59:01 <gamemanj> ...the entirety of next week... to deal with...
00:59:10 <moon__> 43.04 also works (i think)
00:59:28 <moon__> i take just a hour or two to finish a turn
00:59:48 <moon__> Who wishes to go after me? :P
01:00:01 <gamemanj> (then again, if I can find a way to make qemu work - specifically qemu, not qemu-system - on an Android tablet...)
01:00:17 <gamemanj> (qemu-system would probably be too slow)
01:00:33 <moon__> DF in the early stages isnt too lagy
01:00:51 <gamemanj> Wait, so my idea to bring an emulated Linux VM with me ISN'T considered insane?
01:01:02 <gamemanj> Something is wrong with the world
01:01:22 <gamemanj> Usually my crazy ideas are just that
01:01:49 <izabera> what's the difference between qemu and qemu-system?
01:01:56 <moon__> Then ill get the ball rolling and share it
01:01:57 <gamemanj> I'm not even sure if I'll be part of this
01:02:08 <moon__> ill do 2x2 for slower systems
01:02:21 <gamemanj> Phantom__Hoover: and NOW you know why the qemu is involved!
01:02:25 <gamemanj> Phantom__Hoover: Virtual machine
01:02:38 <Phantom__Hoover> gamemanj, yeah but there's a difference between hardware and software virtualisation
01:02:52 <gamemanj> It'll be slow but it might work!
01:03:05 <gamemanj> izabera: qemu-system emulates a whole machine
01:03:07 <moon__> its a good middle size
01:03:50 <moon__> Lets see if i can find a nice site
01:04:12 <gamemanj> izabera: qemu-i386 more or less runs a program without emulating the full kernel/etc AFAIK. At least, that's what I think it does...
01:04:22 <gamemanj> I know, I'll try it on a program and find out!
01:05:05 <gamemanj> [gamemanj@Iwakura dist]$ qemu-i386 reb_static
01:05:33 <moon__> How much memory do you have to use?
01:05:42 <moon__> over 2gb is the best case here
01:06:31 <gamemanj> uh, target device not active right now, busy charging for tomorrow.
01:07:17 <gamemanj> - system stuff & emulator overhead & such and things will be rather bad.
01:08:12 <moon__> Perfect location found
01:08:28 <moon__> do you have a attachable keyboard (wireless for example?)
01:08:43 <Etaoin> Phantom__Hoover, so in lambda calculus I could write something like \x.x where x is a function that does something specific, but I could then use the symbol x for function composition/application/abstraction and such? basically what the actual symbol symbolizes is irrelevant, lambda calculus just allows me to work with higher order functions in an abstract way?
01:09:22 <gamemanj> moon__: I have an OTG keyboard...
01:09:28 <Phantom__Hoover> Etaoin, yes, but then the trick is that in the lambda calculus those are the only functions
01:09:41 <gamemanj> And by that I mean an OTG cable (no separate power though...)
01:10:01 <moon__> If it canconnect to your device, it will work
01:10:10 <Etaoin> that's the bit I can't understand :D
01:10:11 <moon__> ill play the first year
01:10:27 <Etaoin> how in the world can I do anything useful with such a simple system
01:10:41 <moon__> Etaoin, look at brainfuck lol
01:10:52 <Etaoin> brainfuck is relatively complex compared to this imo
01:11:01 <Phantom__Hoover> Etaoin, well e.g. you can encode true vs. false as \x y.x and \x y.y
01:11:32 <moon__> So no-one wants to take the next turn?
01:12:16 <Phantom__Hoover> and you can encode other data types in similar ways, and then from there you can get the 'primitive functions' that you expect to have
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01:12:53 <Cale> More suggestively, you can encode true vs. false as \false true. false and \false true. true
01:13:18 <Cale> In general, you just pretend that you're taking the data constructors for your algebraic type as arguments to the function
01:14:47 <Cale> So e.g. if in Haskell, you'd have had data Tree a = Tip | Branch a (Tree a) (Tree a), and some value like Branch 1 (Branch 2 Tip Tip) (Branch 3 Tip Tip), you'd encode that as \tip branch -> branch 1 (branch 2 tip tip) (branch 3 tip tip)
01:15:58 <moon__> ill just put up the save when im done
01:16:31 <Cale> Etaoin: and then supplying function arguments is basically doing a fold over the data structure
01:17:53 <moon__> This embark has iron (so far)
01:18:50 -!- Akaibu has joined.
01:21:36 <moon__> Ooo, this embark has gold
01:24:35 <oerjan> <gamemanj> Note the "as long as they're arbitrary" - you have to have enough expression to tell whatever lies you need, and by having that you also leave a hole open for telling truth
01:24:57 <oerjan> iirc the point of the original Newspeak was precisely _not_ to have enough expression.
01:25:40 <oerjan> although it still technically allowed "absurdies" like "Big Brother is ungood."
01:28:02 <lambda-11235> Cale: I only heard the last four lines of what you said, but I think I wrote a blog post about it.
01:28:09 <lambda-11235> http://lambda-11235.github.io/posts/2016-06-17-church-encode-adts.html
01:32:16 -!- boily has joined.
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01:34:15 -!- ^v has joined.
01:44:03 <boily> quinthellopia, hellørjan, mhelloon__!
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01:45:33 <shachaf> Phantom__Hoover: Oh, I thought you were talking about Factorio.
01:45:34 <Phantom__Hoover> because they can both appear in, generously, the first ten layers only
01:46:08 <moon__> We have both deep and shallow metal..
01:46:19 <shachaf> But I guess you're talking about Dwarf Fortress.
01:46:29 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/montreal
01:47:25 <moon__> Someone else wrote something similar to wisdom on hbot
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01:47:57 -!- ^v has joined.
01:48:51 <moon__> shame DF is actually slower when there is no dfhack
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01:52:53 <Etaoin> do you people ever feel those feels?
01:53:13 <Etaoin> the kinds of feels that make you feel all... feely
01:53:22 <quintopia> what's weird is boily coming in saying hello and leaving without explanation
01:54:45 <Etaoin> can someone kick my ass?
01:54:53 <Etaoin> so I don't have to deal with finals tomorrow
01:55:00 <quintopia> try turning into Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar
01:55:12 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
01:55:29 <quintopia> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87w655s3xKc
01:57:27 <oerjan> Etaoin: i can kickban you if that helps
01:57:50 <quintopia> a 24 hour kickban would promote studying
01:57:52 <Etaoin> objectively it might but it won't get me out of the test
01:57:58 <HackEgo> lettuce//Lettuce is a vegetable with two dressings, join and meet.
01:58:18 <shachaf> i prefer my lettuce without meat tdnh
01:58:27 <zzo38> Then do kick without ban.
01:58:34 <zzo38> Either way it won't help anyways
01:58:39 <quintopia> i like my salads with chicken and my burgers with lettuce
01:58:47 <shachaf> i like all my food vegetarian
01:58:57 <oerjan> shachaf: that's just a semi-lettuce
01:58:57 <shachaf> and i like people not talking about eating meat around me
01:59:12 <oerjan> i also prefer eating only vegetarians
01:59:14 <shachaf> you can't always get what you like
01:59:28 <quintopia> but i can always get salads the way i like
01:59:53 <shachaf> in fact i'm unhappy right now because of you
02:00:03 <HackEgo> brick//Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
02:00:07 <Etaoin> shachaf you vegetarian?
02:00:17 <quintopia> ...that's not changing the subject
02:00:22 <HackEgo> ruby//Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.
02:01:01 <shachaf> Is it Japan or Ruby that eventually decided to support non-ascii character?
02:01:02 -!- shikhin has changed nick to oonbotti4.
02:01:16 -!- oonbotti4 has changed nick to shikhin.
02:01:27 <shachaf> Non-ascii characters like ørjan, I suppose.
02:01:31 <HackEgo> Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
02:02:07 <HackEgo> Your mysterious articled cackling zombie underlord kommisjonær emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
02:02:50 <shachaf> `slwd ørjan//s#.$# without noticing it.#
02:02:55 <HackEgo> wisdom/ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
02:02:56 <Etaoin> >His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
02:03:02 <Etaoin> sounds like someone was reading homestuck
02:04:02 <HackEgo> Betty Crocker is a notorious gambler.
02:06:21 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
02:06:41 <Etaoin> I guess now I know who was reading homestuck
02:07:05 <Etaoin> I'm sensing tomfoolery
02:07:12 <HackEgo> tomfoolery is always factually inaccurate. always.
02:07:25 <oerjan> `` grep shachaf bin/slist
02:07:33 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
02:07:45 <oerjan> hm i'll have to side with shachaf there
02:07:46 <HackEgo> rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ Gnaro \ ngevd \ Atriq \ aiq \ Svben \ Ftrb \ GungBgureCrefba \ nybg
02:07:58 <shachaf> statistically it seems to have been Taneb hth
02:08:05 <Etaoin> I meant the bot was reading it
02:08:36 <oerjan> unlikely. the bot has rather limited internet access.
02:08:53 <shachaf> oerjan: if that's true, how come it always knows about slist updates? hth
02:09:20 <Etaoin> fungot: have you tried https://xkcd.com/1646/ yet?
02:09:21 <fungot> Etaoin: mimulus luteus--crossed and self-fertilised flowers, in height, weight, and fertility :) most :) these cases a first trace :) movement could not be easily observed; but it certainly was in/ time :)/ year, which is often called/ sense :) hearing; for with chickens hatched by artificial heat, a good deal, and i found in it.
02:09:23 <oerjan> your logic is peccable
02:09:37 <ais523> what does slwd stand for?
02:09:46 <ais523> (I can figure out what it does from context, but not why it has that name)
02:10:00 <oerjan> ais523: i just put a w in sled hth
02:10:18 <ais523> and "sled" is a portmanteau of "slash" and "sed"?
02:11:05 <Etaoin> can't wait til someone implements a general AI as a bot here
02:11:25 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
02:11:41 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
02:11:55 <Etaoin> oh damn I'm interested in the homestuck one
02:11:59 <oerjan> fungot: what do you think about brexit
02:12:01 <fungot> oerjan: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, we have seen today, would almost certainly lead to some companies, especially in tropical waters, such as esprit, telematics, leonardo da vinci programme, which is regarded as a commodity and on which fnord has not been able to help with transport and setting up centres of excellence in all the national structures so that they can have in each individual member of each national parlia
02:13:42 <oerjan> i assume eir point was in the cut off part
02:13:48 <shachaf> Maybe sled should be called s/e/d
02:14:02 <shachaf> Everything should have more slashes.
02:14:47 <shachaf> But then the spoilers would become nonsensical.
02:14:55 <shachaf> And also the root directory would become further polluted.
02:15:13 <Etaoin> when has that ever stopped people from doing things
02:15:54 <shachaf> It stops people with refined taste, like oerjan.
02:16:36 <Etaoin> one might argue that oerjan is a scrub
02:16:58 <lambdabot> *** "scrub" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:16:58 <lambdabot> adj 1: (of domestic animals) not selectively bred
02:16:58 <lambdabot> n 1: dense vegetation consisting of stunted trees or bushes
02:16:58 <lambdabot> [syn: {scrub}, {chaparral}, {bush}]
02:17:06 <lambdabot> 2: the act of cleaning a surface by rubbing it with a brush and
02:17:06 <lambdabot> soap and water [syn: {scrub}, {scrubbing}, {scouring}]
02:17:06 <lambdabot> v 1: clean with hard rubbing; "She scrubbed his back" [syn:
02:17:10 <lambdabot> 2: wash thoroughly; "surgeons must scrub prior to an operation"
02:17:21 <lambdabot> 3: postpone indefinitely or annul something that was scheduled;
02:17:21 <lambdabot> "Call off the engagement"; "cancel the dinner party"; "we had
02:17:21 <lambdabot> to scrub our vacation plans"; "scratch that meeting--the
02:17:22 <lambdabot> chair is ill" [syn: {cancel}, {call off}, {scratch}, {scrub}]
02:18:18 <gamemanj> at first I thought I was looking at a very complicated translation bot for a different channel
02:18:28 <gamemanj> and then I realized it was just lambda being spammy
02:18:39 <Etaoin> it ain't lambda's fault
02:19:31 <shachaf> I looked up "scrub" on the Internet.
02:20:23 <shachaf> But the whole joke is that you're being rude.
02:20:29 <shachaf> There's nothing else to that joke.
02:21:18 <Etaoin> I obviously wouldn't call oerjan a scrub for real though
02:22:00 <Etaoin> my apologies in any case
02:22:20 <shachaf> I think you should scrub that word from your lexicon.
02:23:59 <oerjan> i dunno, that 3rd definition resonates with me
02:25:17 <Etaoin> the only 3: one I assume
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02:27:48 <lambdabot> *** "fogey" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:27:49 <lambdabot> n 1: someone whose style is out of fashion [syn: {dodo}, {fogy},
02:28:12 <oerjan> clearly a fellow precambrian
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02:28:34 <Etaoin> are you implying shachaf's clothing isn't fashionable enough
02:28:47 <oerjan> i don't know, i have never seen shachaf's clothing
02:29:11 <shachaf> anyway, i knew what the word meant
02:29:19 <shachaf> i wasn't suggesting it's illegitimate because it's not in the dictionary
02:29:38 <lambdabot> *** "gullible" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:29:38 <lambdabot> adj 1: naive and easily deceived or tricked; "at that early age
02:29:38 <lambdabot> she had been gullible and in love" [syn: {fleeceable},
02:29:40 <lambdabot> 2: easily tricked because of being too trusting; "gullible
02:29:42 <lambdabot> tourists taken in by the shell game"
02:30:00 <Etaoin> I love that the last synonym of fogey is fossil
02:30:38 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/*magic*: No such file or directory
02:30:41 <HackEgo> bin/card-by-name \ bin/random-card
02:31:33 <HackEgo> Old Fogey \ GG \ Summon Dinosaur \ 7/7 \ Phasing, cumulative upkeep {1}, echo, fading 3, bands with other Dinosaurs, protection from Homarids, snow-covered plainswalk, flanking, rampage 2 \ UNH-R
02:31:33 <HackEgo> Fossil Find \ (r/g) \ Sorcery \ Return a card at random from your graveyard to your hand, then reorder your graveyard as you choose. \ SHM-U
02:33:16 <shachaf> `card-by-name steamflogger boss
02:33:19 <HackEgo> Steamflogger Boss \ 3R \ Creature -- Goblin Rigger \ 3/3 \ Other Rigger creatures you control get +1/+0 and have haste. \ If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it assembles two Contraptions instead. \ FUT-R
02:33:29 <shachaf> ais523: What was your hypothesis for how assembling contraptions must behave?
02:33:37 <shachaf> Or maybe it was just vague grammatical speculation.
02:34:09 <ais523> shachaf: that it's in the same sort of grammatical category as "attacks", "blocks", "targets", "damages"
02:34:13 <ais523> that "assembles" is, I mean
02:34:17 <ais523> and thus that protection prevents it working
02:35:01 <ais523> I had a theory that maybe it works a bit like the early playtests of outlast did; during your combat phase, instead of attacking a player or a planeswalker with a creature, you can assemble a contraption with it
02:35:37 <ais523> hmm… if a planeswalker has protection from creatures, that doesn't stop creatures attacking it, right? because attacking isn't listed in the list of things protection stops
02:35:56 <ais523> so maybe protection wouldn't save the contraptions from assembly either
02:36:22 <ais523> one theory as to what assembly does is that the contraptions are permanently tapped when played, and assembling them is the only way to untap them
02:36:59 <shachaf> Seems odd to introduce an extra word for that.
02:37:07 <shachaf> But I guess it could be some other state.
02:37:40 <shachaf> Maybe a Contraption is an entity consisting of more than one object?
02:37:51 <shachaf> Well, that doesn't make that much sense.
02:38:17 <Etaoin> at what point does it stop being human error and the machine becomes responsible?
02:39:25 <ais523> shachaf: you'd have to introduce an extra word, if you wrote the rules out (say as reminder text) it would be something like "(Instead of attacking, this creature can untap a Contraption you control)"
02:39:52 <ais523> note that "instead of attacking" is kind-of needed, because otherwise it'd probably be an activated ability with a target
02:40:00 <quintopia> you get one guess at any of the things google autocompletes "how to catch up on" to
02:40:03 <ais523> and then steamflogger boss's text would look different
02:40:15 <shachaf> Why would it have to do with attacking?
02:41:09 <ais523> I needed some way for it to not be an activated ability
02:41:13 <ais523> which means it has to be a special action
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02:41:24 <ais523> then I looked for something that would have a reason to be a special action rather than an activated ability
02:41:33 <ais523> replacing an attack is one way to do that, as that's a cost that an activated ability can't have
02:41:50 <shachaf> Why wouldn't it be an activated ability?
02:42:20 <ais523> how would you phrase this mechanic as an activated ability?
02:42:56 <ais523> (note that in early design, outlast replaced an attack, but it was changed to a sorcery-speed tap ability during development to make the way it worked clearer; that changes the way it works though)
02:43:15 <shachaf> Ah, that's what you meant.
02:44:03 <shachaf> I guess there wouldn't be a reason to say "assemble a Contraption" instead of just "assemble" for a lot of things I was thinking of.
02:44:47 <shachaf> How about: {T}: Assemble. "assemble" means you flip a coin or roll a die or something, and do different things depending on what you got.
02:45:04 <shachaf> A Contraption is a kind of token you might assemble.
02:45:46 <ais523> it probably doesn't work rules-grammatically, but the best design I've seen has "assemble a Contraption" mean "place a Contraption artifact token into play", and the cards that assemble contraptions have static abilities that grant abilities to contraptions
02:45:54 <ais523> in much the same way that slivers grant abilities to other slivers
02:46:04 <ais523> riggers grant abilities to contraptions
02:46:10 <shachaf> Why doesn't it work rules-grammatically?
02:46:22 <shachaf> The way I put it, with the random chance.
02:46:26 <ais523> steamflogger boss would be templated as "assemble an additional contraption"
02:46:38 <ais523> because the assembler wouldn't matter for that mechanic
02:47:05 <shachaf> Maybe it can assemble a contraption during combat, based on what creature is blocking it or something?
02:48:32 <shachaf> Seems like there are a lot of cases where the assembler could matter.
02:49:49 <Etaoin> have you guys ever tried putting ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) into google translate and have it pronounce it?
02:50:10 <shachaf> I try not to put that anywhere.
02:50:21 <shachaf> Including my IRC channels.
02:51:04 <shachaf> Oh, Contraption is an artifact type.
02:57:43 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: nuke: command not found
02:57:58 <HackEgo> nuke it from orbit? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:58:21 <shachaf> it would be just as good without the `
03:00:06 <zzo38> I think that a planeswalker with protection from creatures can still be attacked, but will not receive any damage as a result of the attack.
03:01:26 <zzo38> But of course I do not know what "assemble" is. Contraption is a subtype of artifacts though; that is already defined.
03:02:45 <coppro> zzo38: correct about pro: creatures
03:03:48 <zzo38> I cannot think of anything that "assemble" might mean that would have SteamFlogger Boss to make sense anyways.
03:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> That moment when somebody tries to explain to you that you're wrong thinking that this number is big, and they give you a googol for comparison
03:04:35 <hppavilion[1]> After you said "I eat Graham's Number for breakfast"
03:04:43 <ais523> zzo38: I agree that it wouldn't receive damage, and hadn't thought of that before you mentioned it
03:05:05 <ais523> now I'm wondering if there's any way to give a planeswalker protection from creatures using existing cards
03:05:26 <ais523> (I have a strong suspicion that if there is, at least one of mycosynth lattice and enchanted evening will be involved)
03:06:02 <coppro> I know how to do it, but I'm going to see if there's a way without that ;)
03:07:18 <coppro> have a teferi emblem, a gideon, a concerted effort, and a beloved chaplain
03:07:25 <coppro> animate gideon in response to concerted effort trigger
03:07:26 <shachaf> `card-by-name enchanted evening
03:07:28 <HackEgo> Enchanted Evening \ 3(w/u)(w/u) \ Enchantment \ All permanents are enchantments in addition to their other types. \ SHM-R
03:07:57 <ais523> I think there's a much easier way: animate gideon, enchant with spirit mantle
03:08:04 <ais523> (admittedly it falls off at end of turn, so it isn't very interesting, but you can do it)
03:08:20 <shachaf> `card-by-name spirit mantle
03:08:21 <HackEgo> Spirit Mantle \ 1W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has protection from creatures. \ M12-U, PC2-U
03:08:58 <ais523> this is unless there's a gideon that can stay animated for multiple turns
03:09:10 <coppro> `card-by-name concerted effort
03:09:12 <HackEgo> Concerted Effort \ 2WW \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of each upkeep, creatures you control gain flying until end of turn if a creature you control has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, landwalk, protection, trample, and vigilance. \ RAV-R
03:09:20 <coppro> though mine actually allows this to happen off-turn
03:11:09 <ais523> it's easier with un-cards
03:11:16 <ais523> as you can just use staying power to keep gideon animated indefinitely
03:11:23 <ais523> (that said, staying power doesn't actually work rules-wise, most likely)
03:11:23 <shachaf> `card-by-name staying power
03:11:27 <HackEgo> Staying Power \ 2W \ Enchantment \ As long as Staying Power is in play, "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects don't end. \ UNH-R
03:11:30 <ais523> (and even if it did it'd be completely broken)
03:11:58 <shachaf> What about a sorcery with an "until end of turn" version of Staying Power?
03:12:39 <ais523> shachaf: it'd still last forever, wouldn't it? :-P
03:12:48 <ais523> the enchantment version is at least removable
03:13:05 <zzo38> I once made up a card that says: Skip all cleanup steps.
03:13:08 <ais523> (actually I misremembered the card, I thought it was an instant that deleted "until end of turn" or "this turn" from cards)
03:13:30 <ais523> zzo38: does that prevent "until end of turn" effects ending?
03:13:51 <pikhq> Thankfully, as it's an UNH card, the comprehensive rules don't have to think about the exact implications of that card.
03:13:56 <ais523> actually, does it cause damage to stay marked permanently? I think it would but I'm not sure
03:14:30 <zzo38> Rule 514.2 ends "until end of turn" effects and removes all marked damage.
03:14:37 <ais523> this is why ending the turn doesn't skip the cleanup step, and why triggers during the cleanup step cause a second cleanup step after they resolve
03:14:37 <zzo38> That is part of the cleanup step.
03:14:52 <ais523> now I'm wondering if there's a way to get an infinite loop of cleanup steps
03:15:08 <moon__> Someone has generously offered to give hbot a server
03:15:35 <ais523> preferably a mandatory one (you could get an optional one if manamorphose got madness somehow and there was an ROE emrakul in your library)
03:15:49 <zzo38> Yes, the rules are that, if there are any pending triggers or state based actions during a cleanup step, then the active player gets priority; if any player gets priority during a cleanup step, then there is another cleanup step instead of the next turn.
03:15:58 <pikhq> ais523: Then you'd be able to force a tie.
03:16:00 <shachaf> ais523: What about a card that terminates an "until X" effect early?
03:16:12 <shachaf> I guess there's no way to specify effects.
03:16:28 <ais523> I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work in the rules, although I'm pretty sure they'd never print it
03:16:35 <zzo38> You can't target effects. Only players, objects, and zones can be targeted.
03:16:54 <ais523> but the only reason you can't target effects is that the rules say you can't
03:17:15 <shachaf> Do effects exist in some zone or something?
03:17:32 <shachaf> What are effects? We just don't know.
03:17:37 <ais523> ugh, Gatherer text search matches the name of a card if it's using it tor efer to itself
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03:18:02 <shachaf> It's at most one extra result.
03:18:45 <ais523> more than one if you're looking for a single word that exists within multiple card names
03:18:56 <ais523> fwiw, I've been vaguely considering writing my own TCG rules
03:19:04 <ais523> and I'd have cards use first-person pronouns to refer to themselves
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03:19:16 <ais523> it's short, clear, and doesn't change based on context
03:19:52 <shachaf> Though I think the "trading card" aspect of mtg is kind of scow unless your goal is to make money.
03:19:58 <ais523> anyway, looks like it's only possible to give madness to cards that don't already have them if they're creatures
03:20:03 <Sgeo_> :( I searched for Pentagonal Dreams, and found a video claiming to be the Enigma OST. It is not.
03:20:08 <Sgeo_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y3s2sBr0qA
03:20:19 <ais523> Sgeo_: Enigma's OST is available from the source repo
03:20:37 <ais523> although pentagonal dreams is an s3m, which I had to convert to ogg to get my media player to understand it
03:21:38 <ais523> shachaf: I think the solution to that (if you even want to use the TCG model) is to have a cap on singles prices, implemented via a standing offer to sell any card for a given specific price, and just printing more cards to keep up with demand via that mechanism
03:21:38 <zzo38> One way to convert s3m->ogg is to use my "playmod" program, taking the s3m as input and pipe the output to sox and tell it to write a ogg format output.
03:21:50 <ais523> (a likely price would be around the price of a booster)
03:21:59 <ais523> alternatively you could use the LCG model, which I rather like
03:22:06 <zzo38> I don't like that either that it matches the name of the card to refer to itself, and I also don't like that reminder text is included and matched for searches in Gatherer.
03:22:35 <zzo38> I would use a different kind of model to make the card game and I think I have described it on here before.
03:22:51 <ais523> if you did, I either missed it or can't remember it
03:23:04 <ais523> hmm, perhaps I should write out the rules of my tcg/lcg/whatever
03:23:08 <shachaf> ais523: The solution to what? Making money?
03:23:23 <ais523> shachaf: the solution to singles prices going too high
03:23:36 <shachaf> Are your cards computer-interpretable?
03:23:44 <Sgeo_> Ok, so the YouTube video is espirit.ogg
03:24:40 <ais523> shachaf: my current thoughts have been that all abilities are keyworded, but reminder text has rules meaning and so the keywords don't need to be placed in the rules unless they're defined without reminder text
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03:24:46 <ais523> I'm not sure if the reminder text would be machine-readable
03:24:48 <HackEgo> kalippo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:24:58 <ais523> there's tension between that, and making it fit on the card
03:25:11 <ais523> OTOH the keywords would be machine-readable but you'd still have to program their effects separately
03:25:22 <shachaf> I'd be happier with keywords being part of a standard library rather than a core language.
03:25:40 <ais523> you make up a new card effect
03:25:47 <ais523> if it's never seen before you make up a new keyword name to go with it
03:25:56 <ais523> that way, you don't have to decide in advance whether you want to be able to care about it or not
03:26:20 <ais523> (this should fix the problem with M:tG tribal, hopefully, where they decided it was a failure as it wasn't retrofitted onto cards that should have had it)
03:27:21 <pikhq> I'm fairly fond of the LCG model, personally.
03:27:24 <ais523> I wouldn't define keywords in the rules, probably more like in some sort of "evergreen keywords booklet" that would be included in the rules for convenience
03:27:34 <ais523> like, shipped together
03:27:37 <ais523> rather than officially part of it
03:28:06 <zzo38> I would have a different kind. There is no reminder text. Keywords are defined in the rules, and the rules include computer code. There is also computer codes available per cards, both keyword and non-keyword effects. No booster packs; purchase a "set box", containing cards (grouped by rarity), rule book, a list of cards (to check if any are missing), and a DVD with all the computer codes to implement it.
03:28:25 <shachaf> But my computers don't have DVD drives.
03:28:41 <zzo38> Then you can download the same file from the internet.
03:29:01 <shachaf> I don't have a Gopher client either.
03:29:22 <izabera> there are several ff extensions
03:29:46 <zzo38> (If you have neither DVD nor internet, then too bad; you will have to retype it, or get someone to copy it to a media your computer does support.)
03:30:03 <hppavilion[1]> "A gazelle is just a giraffe, plotted logarithmically"
03:30:12 <ais523> anyway, two of my main focuses were to ensure that a) there's no hidden gamestate, you can always determine the gamestate by looking at where the cards are; b) the number of instances at which you can make a decision is fairly limited, and in particular if mechanics like priority are needed they're a visible part of the game rather than an obscure rule
03:30:14 <zzo38> You don't need the Firefox extension. You can use nc or curl to download the file (and it may be available over multiple protocols)
03:30:22 <hppavilion[1]> `learn A Gazelle is just a giraffe, plotted logarithmically
03:30:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'gazelle': A Gazelle is just a giraffe, plotted logarithmically
03:30:32 <ais523> Sgeo_: LCG is basically like a TCG, but cards are distributed as playsets of entire blocks rather than booster packs
03:30:35 <izabera> you get a much better ux with ff
03:30:53 <shachaf> ais523: If the game is implemented on a computer, you can create token-style cards to represent ongoing effects and so on much more easily.
03:30:56 <ais523> in Magic: the Gathering, very few people buy, say, a playset of every card in BFZ
03:31:08 <ais523> you can do it but it's incredibly expensive and not normally worth it
03:31:16 <ais523> in an LCG, doing that is much cheaper and the normal way to obtain cards
03:31:27 <Sgeo_> ais523, this kills pay2win?
03:31:29 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: it's a multi-holed torus
03:31:31 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: that's gross, stop it
03:31:41 <ais523> although M:tG is more pay-to-compete
03:31:55 <ais523> there's a ceiling beyond which spending more doesn't increase your odds of winning
03:32:06 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: nose, ears, mouth are all connected
03:32:10 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, I suppose you can't merge nostrils with the mouth
03:32:34 <shachaf> Humans are significantly more complicated, even up to homeomorphism.
03:32:50 <zzo38> For my card game design the computer would be optional. But it does help, because the computer code for the game can define the rules precisely and clearly enough. It can be literate programming, in order to print out the book with computer codes too, to read it and do even without computer.
03:33:01 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: We're pretending that humans are solid, aside from the open areas a camera could get to by going in through any exposed orifices
03:33:06 <ais523> I think a computer helps because you often want to play the game remotely
03:33:30 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Is there a proper topological way to merge the nostrils into the mouth?
03:33:32 <zzo38> You will have to pay extra if you want to use the official servers. If you implement your own server then the game can be played for free on computer.
03:33:40 <hppavilion[1]> Ears are obviously irrelevant, because they stop partway into the body
03:35:39 <shachaf> zzo38: Why not make money by selling advertisements and users' personal information?
03:36:26 <hppavilion[1]> I woke up today and realized I should start a megachurch
03:36:37 <hppavilion[1]> I'm an atheist who wants a shitton of money and I have flexible morals
03:36:46 <izabera> how is a megachurch different from a church?
03:37:19 <hppavilion[1]> It's basically a way to mass-produce normal churching, AND turn a profit doing it
03:37:42 <shachaf> if only your morals were flexible enough for a gigachurch
03:38:03 <zzo38> shachaf: That is a possibility, although I do not like that. Even in any case, advertisements and/or payment and/or whatever is only for the official servers and not if you set up your own.
03:38:14 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
03:38:30 <zzo38> (If you set up your own, they can be used on LAN as well as internet, and possibly other things too if you modify the program to support them.)
03:38:52 <shachaf> zzo38: But you could forbid users from running the game on their own, you can make more money.
03:39:25 <zzo38> No. It should be possible everyone can do, so that it is free (as in speech), and to make the rules understandable.
03:40:01 <zzo38> Still, such things as ratings and fancy graphcs and sound effect are only available on the official server (unless someone implement clones of these features).
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03:40:41 <zzo38> (And, of course, official server also help to do play against random opponent, and stuff like that too.)
03:42:01 <shachaf> Why shouldn't fancy graphics be free as in speech?
03:42:03 <zzo38> So, both official and unofficial has their own exclusive features even though both include open-source rules for the game.
03:42:21 <ais523> shachaf: M:tG has at least two unofficial clones that haven't been shut down yet even though they're blatant copyright infringements
03:42:23 <zzo38> shachaf: It can, if someone makes an unofficial version of such thing! Otherwise it is not.
03:42:33 <ais523> (and IIRC WotC(aHS) is trying to shut down at least one)
03:42:41 <shachaf> ais523: Aren't there also a bunch of clones that have been shut down?
03:42:54 <ais523> not to mention games like Hex which are M:tG with the serial numbers filed off and just enough rules changes to dodge patents
03:43:06 <ais523> shachaf: I can't remember the details, IIRC it's complex
03:43:20 <ais523> it might have been that a website distributing one was shut down but the program itself is still developed by other means, or something like that
03:43:41 <zzo38> I think it is that binaries are not distributed and you must compile from source, or something like that?
03:44:52 <zzo38> Some things usable only with unofficial servers for my design would be LAN play, experimental custom cards/sets, custom rule variants, etc.
03:45:56 <shachaf> Wouldn't you rather make more money by forbidding that?
03:46:28 <zzo38> Some things usable only with official servers would be ratings, global leaderboards, fancy sound effects and graphics, automatic updates, play against random opponent, lobby, etc.
03:46:50 <zzo38> shachaf: The goal would be to make a card game, not to earn money, though. Earn money is secondary.
03:49:47 <zzo38> (The rules engine would be 100% FOSS so you are free to examine it to learn the rules better, modify it, port it to another computer, or whatever else you want. It may be AGPL3 in order to provide some kind of business protection as well as FOSS, so that any modified games you host to public cannot be made secret.)
03:50:05 <moon__> Hbot is offically on a dedicated server
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03:56:10 <zzo38> One reason to omit the fancy graphics and sound effects for the free version is to reduce disk space and memory usage. There can be a license exception like: The company that design this game is allowed to give anyone permission (possibly with conditions attached) to use this software under LGPL3 instead. If you modify this program, you may choose to either keep or remove this exception.
04:01:57 <zzo38> This is not quite enough. It also need to say that this additional permission cannot remove the requirement that anyone who exposes the program that links to it, whether on a server or otherwise, must still release the source code of the rules engine and card data including changes made, under AGPL3 or later version.
04:02:25 <oerjan> `slwd gazelle//s,G,g,;s,$,.,
04:02:28 <HackEgo> wisdom/gazelle//A gazelle is just a giraffe, plotted logarithmically.
04:02:39 <ais523> zzo38: I think you just AGPL3 everything you distribute open-source, no exceptions
04:02:43 <zzo38> ("Card data" here may omit favor texts, pictures, etc; only the features used in the game (including computer codes) must be released.
04:02:48 <ais523> and use a commercial license for the fancy graphics version
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04:02:58 <oerjan> `learn Humans are significantly more complicated, even up to homeomorphism.
04:03:03 <HackEgo> Learned 'human': Humans are significantly more complicated, even up to homeomorphism.
04:04:48 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, that is a possibility. However, this way I suggested would ensure that the rules match (and therefore there are no hidden game rules), and that if someone experiments with custom rules and they become successful, that they can be included in the official server too.
04:05:11 <ais523> zzo38: the company could use different rules in their released binaries anyway
04:05:24 <ais523> GPL variants don't help there because a company can't infringe their own copyright
04:05:44 <ais523> although if you want to take in community suggestions about rules, you'd either need copyright assignment or to reimplement them
04:06:55 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] I believe you can use the Seifert-van Kampen theorem to prove that human noses and mouths cannot be topologically merged hth
04:08:28 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] (how to split up a human for the theorem is left as an exercise)
04:09:53 <shachaf> wisdom/gazelle seems unjustified.
04:10:05 <zzo38> The purpose of the removable license exception would be so that as long as people who make rule variants do not object to it, they can be included in the official veration. Also I would insist to make it that the free and commercial versions of the computer game would use the exact same rules, although the user interface (and other options that do not affect the game rules) may differ; the paper version would also use the exact same rules (this is
04:10:06 <shachaf> Are we just wholesale lifting punchlines from online comics to put in wisdom now?
04:10:34 <ais523> shachaf: you could make the argument that the quality of wisdom is impossible to significantly decrease
04:10:49 <shachaf> I don't think that's true.
04:10:52 <shachaf> There's a lot of great wisdom.
04:11:57 <shachaf> oerjan: what if a human has a cold, though
04:13:55 <oerjan> "Good artists borrow, great artists steal" - 1/0
04:23:27 <izabera> http://www.catonmat.net/ good coders code, great reuse
04:23:49 <izabera> and it's 5:23 am and i'm late for work
04:24:30 <oerjan> <Etaoin> is it possible to define a logical not function from f(x,y) = if x then y else 0? <-- post classes hit again!
04:24:38 <oerjan> (that's just and, anyway)
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04:30:27 <ais523> and is strictly increasing, so you can't use it to define not (which is strictly decreasing)
04:31:40 <ais523> err, just regularly increasing
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04:48:38 <HackEgo> bin/unidecode: Python script, ASCII text executable
04:48:47 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import os, sys \ import unicodedata \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ if u"DUNNO" in s: \ os.execvp("multicode", ["multicode"] + sys.argv[1:]) \ else: \ print s
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04:49:30 <HackEgo> bin/multicode: Python script, ASCII text executable
04:49:41 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/python \ \ \ import os, glob, sys, unicodedata, locale, gzip, re, traceback, encodings \ import urllib, webbrowser, textwrap \ \ # bz2 was introduced in 2.3, we want this to work also with earlier versions \ try: \ import bz2 \ except ImportError: \ bz2 = None \ \ # for python3 \ try: \ unicode \ except NameError: \
04:50:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/multicode
04:52:13 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 1367023 Jan 13 01:31 share/UnicodeData.txt
04:54:35 <moon_> I managed to lock myself out of hbot's ssh, im an idiot
04:56:40 <oerjan> `fetch http://ftp.unicode.org/Public/9.0.0/ucd/UnicodeData.txt
04:56:48 <HackEgo> 2016-06-27 03:56:44 URL:http://ftp.unicode.org/Public/9.0.0/ucd/UnicodeData.txt [1686443/1686443] -> "UnicodeData.txt" [1]
04:57:40 <HackEgo> U+1F914 THINKING FACE \ UTF-8: f0 9f a4 94 UTF-16BE: d83edd14 Decimal: 🤔 \ 🤔 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE \ UTF-8: ef bb bf UTF-16BE: feff Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
05:01:42 <HackEgo> 2 codepoints \ 3 Java characters \ 7 UTF-8 bytes
05:10:49 <oerjan> gil is not in a gentle mood
05:12:46 <pikhq> "Java characters" is a weird way of spelling "UTF-16 code units".
05:14:31 <oerjan> shachaf: gilgamesh wulfenbach hth
05:15:39 <shachaf> I thought you were talking about Unicode.
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05:15:59 <oerjan> no, i already fixeded that hth
05:16:04 <quintopia> i'm about to draw a picture as a test. something simple. what should it be?
05:16:20 <oerjan> quintopia: a dinosaur on a spaceship
05:16:50 <oerjan> well that's just one iteration.
05:17:08 <oerjan> it goes back at least to calvin and hobbes
05:17:25 <oerjan> probably longer. i think we've had this discussion before.
05:19:04 <quintopia> http://static1.squarespace.com/static/541277b1e4b0061967ff2720/5753fe5440261dd73fe3c939/57540165fd2119480bcbb198/1465123175860/?format=750w
05:27:22 <izabera> https://github.com/NationalSecurityAgency/SIMP
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05:30:06 <oerjan> "This organization has no public members. You must be a member to see who’s a part of this organization."
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05:39:22 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, apparently "thing that turns me on" does not constitute "fetish"- it has to be absolutely necessary. Weird.
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05:44:57 <hppavilion[1]> xkcd 1053 is the most relevant xkcd at 6.3% of detected references
05:45:26 <hppavilion[1]> (That's the 10000 one, so I can see why it's relevant)
05:48:09 <hppavilion[1]> Most relevant xkcd references are on "other" subreditts that each constitute <1% of xkcd relevancy references
06:14:21 <izabera> idea: playing go but each player must put down two stones per turn
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06:33:03 <myname> there are interesting go variants
06:34:06 <myname> my favorite: once per turn, your opponent might request that you make a move other than that move you did
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06:35:51 <myname> turn being: thing you made before your opponents put something on the board
06:36:23 <myname> you are always trying to make the second-best move that way
06:37:03 <myname> izabera: because you can clear a group and secure your position there in the same turn?
06:37:30 <izabera> and so does your opponent in their turn
06:37:55 <izabera> your argument is "because standard go tactics don't work"?
06:38:23 <myname> well, yeah, but i'd say you have a huge disadvantage as soon as your opponent is the first in doing so
06:39:09 <myname> because if your opponent captures and secures your group, you probably can't do the same, because there may nothing to capture
06:40:01 <myname> i might ask a reasonable advanced player i know
06:40:46 <myname> second best german player once
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07:51:01 <PinealGlandOptic> hi everyone! what are CPU archs in which general purpose registers has different size than address registers? example: Cray-1: 64-bit GPRs and 24-bit address registers.
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07:54:07 <pikhq> All of the 8-bit CPUs?
07:54:26 <pikhq> (which had 8-bit GPRs, and typically 16 bit address registers)
08:33:58 <HackEgo> Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
08:35:27 <izabera> does anyone know how to whitelist 192.168.* in noscript?
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09:32:11 <b_jonas> boily: that's a quote from http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1458.html
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09:49:05 <hppavilion[1]> Ha! The International Union for the Conservation of Nature classifies humans as "Least Concern" on their endangered species red list
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09:58:19 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: aka "I don't care, they will be probably fine"
09:58:58 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: they just choose to put a label to "None" case
09:59:04 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Shouldn't humans be "Most Concern"? As in, "They're the ones fucking everything up in the first place"?
10:00:42 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: in terms of conversation humans require negative amount of converstaion
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10:16:49 <HackEgo> the//the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
10:17:24 <hppavilion[1]> Ranked pairs voting is resolvable in O(N^4) time. Wow.
10:40:53 <HackEgo> arothmorphise//arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry.
10:41:45 <HackEgo> Soulquake \ 3UUBB \ Sorcery \ Return all creatures on the battlefield and all creature cards in graveyards to their owners' hands. \ ARB-R
10:43:30 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/arothmorphise
10:43:50 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott boily
10:48:04 <HackEgo> frame//A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
10:48:20 <shachaf> HackEgo: I don't know what you mean.
10:48:29 <shachaf> Apparently wisdom entries don't preserve implication either.
11:15:47 <myname> izabera: go with two stones per turn seems to be a thing
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11:26:14 <hppavilion[1]> I want a program that lets me pass 3D objects through 2D space
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11:26:43 <hppavilion[1]> And, preferably, allows me to do similar things in 4D
11:27:04 <hppavilion[1]> I'd hack a program for this, but that's above my knowledge
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11:53:48 <HackEgo> twnh//twnh is dubious hambiguitous help that will or will not be help. It is provided by a toe with no hair.
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12:03:59 <b_jonas> `learn physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English.
12:04:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'physiology': physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English.
12:06:43 <boily> b_jellonas. are they hungarianly different?
12:08:30 <b_jonas> boily: yes, because physiology is written with an "f". just like in french.
12:09:17 <boily> itym «physiologie» hth
12:09:36 <b_jonas> Basically, English uses ch AND th AND ph for words from greek, French uses ch AND th but not ph, and Hungarian uses only ch (but sometimes writes it as kh).
12:10:53 <b_jonas> boily: yeah, I dunno, French has "photographie"
12:10:58 <b_jonas> I don't understand how it works
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12:13:08 <boily> we «ph» just about everything that remotely may have looked Greek somewhere in the past, and a few more to make sure we didn't miss any on the way.
12:14:13 <Koen__> in french we mostly ph anything that we know was a phi, too
12:15:47 <Koen__> photographie, physique, ...
12:16:34 <Koen__> we're not very consistent as to whether ch should be pronounced sh or k in greek words though
12:16:55 <Koen__> chiropractique might be pronounced kiro
12:17:07 <Koen__> even though ch is pronounced sh in mostly every word
12:17:30 <b_jonas> Koen__: and écho is probably pronounced with a k only, or so I hear
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12:17:53 <b_jonas> why isn't that just written as kh instead then?
12:17:57 <b_jonas> I mean, th already works fine
12:18:00 <Koen_> I wouldn't even have thought about this one, if feels natural
12:18:15 <Koen_> we don't use kh at all
12:18:47 <Koen_> we already have c and q for the k sound; the letter k is barely ever used, and kh is never ever used
12:19:06 <boily> we even dropped the «h» from khaki.
12:19:07 <b_jonas> hmm... so qh? that would work too
12:19:12 <Koen_> 'c' is only pronounced k in front of an a, u or o, though
12:19:32 <Koen_> and q is always followed by a silent u, except when it's followed by a nonsilent u
12:19:51 <Koen_> like in piqûre (notice the ^ to emphasis on the u not being silent)
12:20:20 <Koen_> yes, c is pronounced k before a consonant
12:21:03 <b_jonas> "q is always followed by a silent u" => I don't buy that one, because there are tons of words ending in q, the most common being cinq and coq
12:21:16 <Koen_> and we can always force it to be pronounced s by adding a "cédille": ç
12:21:32 <boily> there's a list for Scrabble players for q-words without qu.
12:21:48 <b_jonas> "piqûre" => I haven't heard of this thing
12:22:13 <Koen_> like a bee sting, or a nurse sting
12:22:47 <b_jonas> (hmm, I think there was another common word ending in q but I don't recall which one)
12:22:54 <b_jonas> (cinq is the obvious one, but there was a second)
12:23:45 <boily> https://www.listesdemots.com/motsavecqsansu.htm
12:23:50 <Koen_> http://dict.xmatiere.com/suffixe.php "Les mots français finissant par 'q': cinq, coq, q"
12:24:08 <Koen_> that's your "tons of words ending in q"
12:24:38 <Koen_> almost every word in boily's list are imported from arabic languages
12:24:54 <b_jonas> hmm, probably cinq and coq are the only common ones than
12:25:12 <boily> there's qwerty in the list :/
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13:58:42 <Phantom__Hoover> this is the most astonishing political clusterfuck i've ever seen
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14:49:19 <b_jonas> Do you use the mercurial vcs? Did it change its official homepage from http://mercurial.selenic.com/ to https://www.mercurial-scm.org/ ? Or is that an attempted takeover after the old homepage is gone?
14:49:39 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:58:18 <b_jonas> https://packages.debian.org/stretch/mercurial says it's changed
14:58:42 -!- moon___ has joined.
14:58:47 <b_jonas> (why can't urls just live forever at least as a redirect, argh)
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15:14:41 -!- moon___ has changed nick to moonythedwarf.
15:15:03 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to Moonythehuman.
15:20:23 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom__Hoover: Which political clusterfuck in particular?
15:20:46 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom__Hoover: Ah, yes, the fucks are clustering this fortnight
15:21:08 * Moonythehuman shouts at hppa villion becauseim in a diffrent chat
15:24:51 <HackEgo> hthyh//"hthyh" is a common typo for "tithe".
15:25:06 <HackEgo> Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano.
15:25:20 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
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16:24:05 <izabera> SOLARIS DOESN'T HAVE open_memstream()
16:24:17 <izabera> i don't want to allocate strings manually!
16:26:28 <izabera> and no fmemopen either :'''(
16:31:09 <moon__> `i got bored and came up with a quick esolang
16:31:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: i: not found
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16:32:09 <moon__> http://pastebin.com/VdTCVUS9
16:34:46 <hppavilion[1]> Then a month later you want it again and you google slightly differently and IMMEDIATELY get a response that works on the first try with no hassle?
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16:40:10 <izabera> WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK moon__
16:40:29 <izabera> STOP CHANGING YOUR GODDAMN NICKNAME
16:40:48 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd.
16:40:50 <izabera> i just wanted to join your fun game
16:41:14 <izabera> the one where hppavilion[1] tells you to stop changing your nickname
16:41:24 <Ngevd> Yeah, I don't really understand that
16:41:27 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to atriq.
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16:43:13 <nvd> I think this is enough
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16:43:15 -!- nvd has changed nick to Taneb.
16:43:58 <HackEgo> m¦ K;¶Ì¤X
ê -F¶9^áÀ¾mï¸)®»Ð*[¯óE(ÏYNÓs \ ÁΩ¤Q|®I7ÓÑSµnàÁ²ÊÕñVGL"N a¦©¥eYHù·E¶äí¤ðj<S£Ege¥Ûj)C+òf!A»[0ÃTú×姵åؽ¸ö${¯º×éó¶îêía[á]>õVñ&p±ÅN.<ØLFÆVÎoz¿]ºYõ§d`bp£½è;hb-~ð]ü qå¡@ûN0©c
ÞÚߺpºiZøØí]*êpº;^àÜÍd´;1c_¥î'`K&e.ólάj«d¨·).ã.L<Ço·L&BtzHÃóËÊVô¥Øâ̽öl=Ø-Nßö1ÙÐVJ´;\¥ÍGÿ¶ÛÂ)½lN
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17:00:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: why not add a script to your irc client that displays the username of someone who changed nicks as <oldname/newname>?
17:01:35 <\oren\> note that actual usernames can't have / in them, so there's no chance of confusion
17:09:06 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: But what about when I try to \oren\: them?
17:32:09 -!- moon___ has changed nick to moonythedwarf.
17:44:49 <\oren\> remeber the new name is after the /
17:56:47 <quintopia> Taneb: what is the difference between taneb and ngevd? how did you come up with these?
18:00:16 <hppavilion[1]> I somehow wound up at http://www.fearof.net/fear-of-holes-phobia-trypophobia/
18:00:26 <hppavilion[1]> And honestly, the cover image is kind of unsettling
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18:02:02 <moonythedwarf> its how those 'hole covered body parts' are made, using that flower as a template
18:04:31 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf: But that picture is still unsettling
18:06:50 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf: Though random statistics I got from the short description on Google Images says 15%, so...
18:07:08 <quintopia> i think most people have it just a little, just like most people are at least a bit averse to snakes and spiders and ticks
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18:38:38 <myname> you cannot have "a little bit" of a phobia
18:39:01 <int-e> . o O ( I'm afraid you can... *runs* )
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18:41:55 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: the picture reminds me of ꙮ
18:42:44 <int-e> (Seriously, it's not the holes, its the EYES!)
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19:06:50 <wob_jonas> They're actually printing a S.N.O.T. or BBM in black-bordered land? How's that possible? Did Maro take the son of the rules manager hostage to force him or something?
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19:27:26 <\oren\> wob_jonas: Uhh... I have no idea what you're talking about.
19:28:00 <HackEgo> wob_jonas: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
19:28:17 <\oren\> hmmm.... oh, you're b_jonas in diguise!
19:28:46 <wob_jonas> I didn't know this counts as a disguise
19:29:12 <int-e> wob_jonas: the text you wrote served the purpose of disguise better than your nick
19:29:35 <int-e> (I also have not clue what that was about...)
19:29:58 <HackEgo> Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
19:30:24 <\oren\> hmm I think S.N.O.T is some unhinged card
19:31:56 <int-e> oh it's b_jonas' gatherer personality
19:32:24 <wob_jonas> and the other card is called B.F.M., not BMM actually
19:36:49 <int-e> too bat the snot thing isn't a real card... it'd be fun to see the oracle card text evolve as people try to stick snots to other player's snots, for example...
19:37:36 <int-e> (sure it becomes a single creature, but who controls it? if it is tapped, will it still be tapped afterwards?)
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19:37:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: trying to stick to an opponent's S.N.O.T. is a lesser, problem, can easily be solved be banning that, and that's exactly what they've done in the SNOT they printed. That's not the biggest problem.
19:38:16 <wob_jonas> There are bigger rules difficulties.
19:42:32 <Taneb> quintopia, Taneb I use pretty much everywhere
19:42:38 <Taneb> Ngevd is (more or less) my initials
19:49:17 <wob_jonas> Eg. what happens if Flickerform is attached to a glued new SNOT card, and you use Flickerform's ability on it.
19:49:35 <wob_jonas> Both cards return, but what will Flickerform (and possibly other auras) get attached to?
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19:50:15 <wob_jonas> The rules team has probably already solved most of this with rules specific to SNOT stuff, and it will be in the rules update, but it's opening a huge can of worms.
19:51:51 <wob_jonas> (Gift of Immortality also works instead of Flickerform)
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20:02:24 <lambdabot> KOAK 271853Z 30008KT 10SM CLR 22/11 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP166 T02170106
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20:13:00 <shachaf> Taneb: What is the meaning of Taneb?
20:13:01 <HackEgo> m–rdalsjökull//M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base.
20:16:17 -!- jaboja has joined.
20:26:19 * ski . o O ( Myrdalsjökull )
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20:29:47 <Taneb> shachaf, it means me
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20:38:59 <HackEgo> lord//The way of the Lord is not just.
20:39:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdumb: not found
20:39:43 <olsner> (it's "not just"? not just what?)
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21:00:25 <\oren\> olsner: i think it's the adjective 'just' not the adverb
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21:51:35 <\oren\> I tried out the Solarized color scheme
21:51:53 <\oren\> I don't like it. I don't like my text looking yellowy
21:53:08 <\oren\> in dark mode, I don't like the fact there is so little contrast
22:02:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: date': not found
22:02:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: batch: not found
22:03:21 <HackEgo> bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \
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22:33:06 <myname> is "he made her duck" actually valid to say if you want to express that a male transformed some girl into a bird? i am missing prepositions in that
22:33:44 <Koen_> well it might mean he conceived her pet duck
22:34:11 <myname> well yeah, it's the point to be ambigious
22:34:16 <Koen_> or that he shot at her and she had to duck
22:34:28 <myname> i found it with 5 different meanings
22:34:32 <Taneb> myname, "he made her a duck" is what you want, or "he made her into a duck"
22:34:44 <Taneb> "he made her duck" means "he made her bend down to avoid some projectile"
22:34:47 <Koen_> pretty sure he made her duck is correct
22:34:58 <Cale> Not into a bird -- without the 'a' in 'a duck' it's just like, duck meat.
22:35:01 <myname> Taneb: it could also mean he prepared a meal for her
22:35:03 <Koen_> well I would be if I was british
22:35:14 <Taneb> myname, yes, that too
22:35:40 <myname> Taneb: it could also mean he used the duck that belonged to her and prepared a meal
22:35:40 <Cale> Yeah, probably referring to the food that was made
22:35:47 <Cale> (in that case)
22:36:01 <myname> again: the point of it was tp be ambigious
22:36:17 <myname> i am not asking what the meaning is, i wondered because of the last example
22:36:23 <myname> which was transforming
22:36:39 <\oren\> `` perl -e'for$x(30,37,31,33,32,36,34,35){print"\033[${x}m foo \033[1m bar \033[0m\n"}'
22:36:44 <HackEgo> [30m foo [1m bar [0m \ [37m foo [1m bar [0m \ [31m foo [1m bar [0m \ [33m foo [1m bar [0m \ [32m foo [1m bar [0m \ [36m foo [1m bar [0m \ [34m foo [1m bar [0m \ [35m foo [1m bar [0m
22:37:20 <\oren\> hackego why did you collapse birght and dark colors into the light color?
22:37:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:38:12 <\oren\> myname: it's even inconsistent
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23:05:05 <lambdabot> CYUL 272100Z 21012G18KT 15SM FEW030TCU FEW250 27/20 A2980 RMK TCU2CI1 CI TR SLP091 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
23:06:35 <lambdabot> CYUL 272100Z 21012G18KT 15SM FEW030TCU FEW250 27/20 A2980 RMK TCU2CI1 CI TR SLP091 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
23:06:56 -!- Etaoin has joined.
23:07:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 272100Z 21012G18KT 15SM FEW030TCU FEW250 27/20 A2980 RMK TCU2CI1 CI TR SLP091 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
23:07:49 <boily> dammit. y u no update!
23:07:57 -!- zz has left ("Leaving").
23:08:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 272200Z 22009G15KT 30SM FEW030TCU FEW180 28/20 A2978 RMK TCU2AC1 AC TR SLP087 DENSITY ALT 1700FT
23:14:22 -!- moon___ has changed nick to moonythehuman.
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23:17:08 <lambdabot> CYYZ 272200Z 27013G22KT 15SM FEW085 32/13 A2982 RMK CU2 SLP097 DENSITY ALT 2700FT
23:21:15 <Etaoin> I figured it had to do with airplanes
23:22:08 <boily> Etaoin: what's your nearest airport?
23:25:35 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... are amendments to the US constitution their own separate body (the important part that lays out the big laws), or are they more like Constitutional Errata? Just changing what the main part of the Constitution already said?
23:26:58 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, huh, here's an interesting thing that should have been obvious that I forgot about
23:27:29 <hppavilion[1]> The president has to have been born a US citizen (not necessarily born /in/ the country- a US citizen parent will generally do too)
23:28:05 <hppavilion[1]> But the line of succession includes positions that do not share this requirement- in fact, the Cabinet or even Speaker of the House can be comprised of non-citizens
23:28:30 <Etaoin> http://www.rijeka-airport.hr/info.asp
23:30:01 <zzo38> The one near my location is CYVR
23:30:03 <lambdabot> CYVR 272200Z 29007KT 30SM SCT120 BKN210 24/17 A3012 RMK AC4CC1 SLP200 DENSITY ALT 700FT
23:30:38 <boily> is there weather in Croatia?
23:30:39 <zzo38> ICAO codes are only four letters long; I would not expect it to work if you put eight letters
23:31:04 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, metar supports two different types of airport coe
23:31:10 <lambdabot> LDZA 272200Z 21003KT 170V260 9999 FEW035 17/15 Q1019 NOSIG
23:31:29 <Etaoin> that's the airport in the capital some 160 km east
23:31:58 <zzo38> IATA are three letters, so we can try to see if it is work
23:32:31 <zzo38> It doesn't; you need ICAO codes. (ICAO codes are much better than IATA anyways)
23:36:00 <\oren\> man, looking at a map, croatia just barely allows bosnia to have a coastline
23:38:58 <lambdabot> oerjan said 19h 32m 3s ago: I believe you can use the Seifert-van Kampen theorem to prove that human noses and mouths cannot be topologically merged hth
23:38:59 <lambdabot> oerjan said 19h 30m 30s ago: (how to split up a human for the theorem is left as an exercise)
23:39:21 <Etaoin> \oren\ I'm not even completely sure why that's the case though ^^
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23:39:47 <Etaoin> they have Neum, that one lil city on the coast
23:40:33 <lambdabot> PAMR 272153Z 23006KT 10SM FEW110 20/08 A3015 RMK AO2 SLP211 T02000078
23:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> So lambdabot, devourer of time, has metar but not taf? lame.
23:42:53 <hppavilion[1]> Etaoin: Is that the ICAO for \oren\'s personal airstrip?
23:43:24 <boily> ah, to be able to fly orenair...
23:43:27 <Etaoin> anyone uzing firefox on win10=
23:43:38 <\oren\> Does Kennedy Space Center have an ICAO code?
23:43:48 <boily> if I had the money, I'd create an airline called Orenair. it sounds strangely good.
23:43:50 <Etaoin> it keeps crashing for me 's why I'm saking
23:44:27 <\oren\> I use firefox on windows 7 and it works fine
23:44:35 <boily> I use FF on Ubuntu, FF on windows 7, and it works fine.
23:44:53 * boily steers Etaoin towards a penguin
23:45:23 <Etaoin> I guess it really is cause I overclocked my gpu 😂
23:45:23 <hppavilion[1]> I use FireFly on Windows 10, which is running on Ubuntu inside of DOS on top of a CPU in minecraft
23:46:43 <Etaoin> considering I can't forward my ports, can you ddos me?
23:46:46 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, the minecraft CPU is in an implementation of JavaScript (translated, of course, from CoffeeScript II: The Wrath of Khan) running in Netscape
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23:47:08 * boily thwacks hppavilion[1]. “aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!”
23:47:48 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, by the way, can we start referring to people who watch too much Fox News as a fandom?
23:47:51 <boily> this is horrible! terrible! odious! outrageous! egregious! miasmatic! abhorrent!
23:48:15 <boily> I shall depart in a huff! I am triggered! exclamation mark!
23:48:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INFINITE CHICKEN).
23:48:48 <hppavilion[1]> @tell boily I can't take your exclamation seriously if they end with an exclamation mark but don't start with an inverted question mark hth
23:49:23 <oerjan> shaloily. also shachaf for obvious reasons.
23:49:47 <Etaoin> how do we refer to the fox news fandom?
23:50:23 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> this is horrible! terrible! odious! outrageous! egregious! miasmatic! abhorrent! <-- running away before i can do my porthello? i agree.
23:51:30 <Etaoin> @tell boily hey boily I just wanted to @tell you something cause everyone else did. I wanted to feel included cause my girlfriend just left me after 2 years
23:55:30 <Koen_> @tell boily terrible and odious? tedious!
23:56:02 <oerjan> Etaoin: are you saying she couldn't stand this channel
23:56:04 <hppavilion[1]> Everyone knows I already won the porthello competition
23:56:34 <Etaoin> oerjan, no it was external factors
23:56:51 <oerjan> good, good ... er wait ...
23:57:54 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we are branching out in order to extinguish hth
23:58:03 <oerjan> Etaoin: that would do it.
23:58:33 <Etaoin> you can never be too sure
23:58:49 <shachaf> @tell boily this message is secret. please don't @messages-loud it in the channel twh
00:03:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You should have gone for a more aggressive approach that looks like legalese and sounds legally binding
00:03:48 <oerjan> a shrink-wrapped @teula
00:03:56 <oerjan> @teula shachaf try that.
00:07:12 <oerjan> right, it was one of those.
00:07:29 <oerjan> i had a crazy idea to fix that...
00:07:41 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
00:08:07 <shachaf> `` echo -n 'hi '; echo "HellockEgo" | rainbow
00:08:33 <shachaf> `` echo -n 'lambdabot: @tell boily '; echo "HellockEgo" | rainbow
00:08:37 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @tell boily HellockEgo
00:09:11 <hppavilion[1]> We need to establish a distinction between "Picture", "Image", and "Photograph"
00:09:25 <hppavilion[1]> Or, at least, between "Photograph" and more general images
00:09:35 <zzo38> Some airports have ICAO code but no IATA code, while some others have IATA code but no ICAO code. However, the first letter of ICAO code will not be I and J, therefore you could use it in this way if this is required.
00:09:47 <hppavilion[1]> Rule: A photograph actually happened and you cameraed it. Google should account for this.
00:10:14 <shachaf> zzo38 Why will the first letter not be I and J?
00:10:28 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the problem i see with that is that the only way to ensure that is with some kind of DRM
00:10:51 <Etaoin> @tell boily we're just spamming you at this point tbh
00:10:57 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well it isn't about ensuring; just about the general case
00:11:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Shops count as photographs, loosely, so this isn't a way to tell if a picture is shopped
00:12:33 <zzo38> shachaf: Those letters are not used. In addition, X is for internal codes, while Q is for non-geographical special uses.
00:13:18 <shachaf> zzo38: But what if they're used in the future?
00:13:37 <zzo38> I don't know possibly they would be
00:14:13 <fungot> Etaoin: mr president, i had a doubt: i had the opportunity recently to visit the christian churches out there are calling for today. the barcelona summit in further detail in april, are therefore unacceptable to the commission. in fact, parliamentarians can also be sure that member states which are now being removed from the positions expressed, the true reason for the increase in the financial, environmental and health problem
00:14:17 <zzo38> ZZZZ indicates that no ICAO code exists.
00:15:21 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Shouldn't humans be "Most Concern"? As in, "They're the ones fucking everything up in the first place"? <-- i'm not sure the classification applies to species _creating_ trouble rather than _suffering_ from it
00:15:49 <oerjan> although i suppose there might be an "invasive species" classification
00:16:13 <zzo38> ICAO codes can only be four letters long.
00:17:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: http://conservationmagazine.org/2014/05/scientists-propose-new-classification-scheme-for-invasive-species/
00:17:53 <oerjan> how dare you google the same terms as i!
00:18:17 <hppavilion[1]> It's weird that people talk about letting nature run its course and not interfering and how humans are interfering with animal life and we should just let animals progress naturally
00:18:41 <hppavilion[1]> Without accounting for the fact that humans fucking everything up is the definition of letting a species thrive and flourish naturally
00:20:47 <hppavilion[1]> Where do hippies draw the line for animal cruelty? At what point does harming an animal become cruel?
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00:21:16 <Etaoin> if two heads are better than one does that imply that four eyes are better than two and thus people with glasses are innately superior?
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00:23:30 <Etaoin> how annoying would a bot that corrects typos be?
00:23:46 <shachaf> lambdabot has a mode for that.
00:23:47 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: all the rules about animal ethics are ad hoc because human doesn't have the technology to be consistent about it. in the extreme, we'd have to stop killing millions of bacteria (as well as cells in our own body) simply by existing.
00:26:25 <oerjan> and of course there's the added issue that we don't really _know_ what other species feel, we just assume that human-resembling behavior corresponds to sentience.
00:26:54 <oerjan> which means we cannot even really tell whether it would be _good_ to change the biosphere to be "ethical".
00:28:47 <oerjan> for all we know, eating a carrot causes as much suffering as eating an animal.
00:29:37 <Etaoin> afaik grass senses pain
00:31:51 <oerjan> (also this applies to the importance of brains, i guess)
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00:40:35 <oerjan> `hoag wisdom/arothmorphise
00:41:04 <oerjan> `hoag wisdom/arothmorphise
00:41:19 * oerjan too lazy to wait to see whether the space broke it.
00:41:23 <HackEgo> <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <boily> learn arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...\' entry.
00:41:51 <oerjan> hm boily's is the only substantial one.
00:42:40 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
00:42:54 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -- "$1" | grep summary: | sed "s/ +/ /g" | sed "s/^ //" | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}'| sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
00:44:09 <shachaf> culprits should just use hoag
00:44:39 <oerjan> is that obviously equivalent?
00:45:58 <oerjan> wait, do you mean _including_ the command parts?
00:46:27 <shachaf> hoag replaces the hg log and the grep
00:46:45 <HackEgo> 1/23:Template Usage \ \ Mercurial allows you to customize output of commands through templates. \ You can either pass in a template from the command line, via the \ --template option, or select an existing template-style (--style). \ \ You can customize output for any "log-like" command: log, outgoing, \ incomin
00:47:14 <shachaf> I thought you only objected when people got to three digits?
00:47:39 <oerjan> i'm objecting because i want the old code not to run off the screen hth
00:47:48 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -- "$1" | grep summary: | sed "s/ +/ /g" | sed "s/^ //" | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}'| sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
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00:50:46 <oerjan> `` hg log --removed wisdom/arothmorphise | grep summary:
00:50:55 <HackEgo> summary: <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ summary: <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ summary: <oerjan> revert \ summary: <elliott> revert 1 \ summary: <boily> learn arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...\' entry.
00:51:31 <shachaf> `hoag wisdom/arothmorphise
00:51:35 <HackEgo> <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <oerjan> revert \ <elliott> revert 1 \ <boily> learn arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...\' entry.
00:52:47 <oerjan> `mkx bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
00:53:00 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/arothmorphise
00:53:05 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott boily
00:53:22 <shachaf> Wait, did that change anything?
00:53:59 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
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00:55:25 <\oren\> I'm working on a colour scheme for my terminal
00:55:28 <oerjan> it's not working anway
00:56:04 <zgrep> Wait, I'm the culprit!?
00:56:06 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/taneb
00:56:12 <HackEgo> oerjan boily Taneb oerjan Taneb oerjan oerjan elliott shachaf boily oerjan ais523 ais523 shachaf elliott FreeFull shachaf shachaf oerjan oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull Taneb shachaf shachaf nitia
00:56:18 <HackEgo> <oerjan> rm quine \ <zgrep> ` echo "echo \\`quine" >> quine
00:56:47 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
00:56:53 <oerjan> zgrep: your syntax was wrong.
00:57:04 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ ls: cannot access ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory
00:57:44 <oerjan> zgrep: also that's not where commands that can be invoked are put. and we already had a quine command, not that it worked.
00:58:05 <oerjan> hm we can replace it with that proc thing
00:58:13 <zgrep> I know now. I guess I didn't know back when I made it. And I didn't know at all about the quite command that you had.
00:58:14 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | sed 's/[^>]*> //' | grep '^`' | tail -1 #Best cheating quine ever?
00:58:53 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" wisdom/quine
00:58:56 <HackEgo> 2013-10-06 <oerjan> revert 3875 \ 2013-10-05 <JWinslow23> learn QUINE `? QUINE \ 2013-07-31 <Bike> revert \ 2013-07-31 <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 2012-10-06 <oerjan> revert \ 2012-10-06 <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ 2012-04-08 <shachaf> revert 0 \ 2012-04-08 <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 2012-02-16 I
00:58:59 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" quine
00:59:04 <HackEgo> 2016-06-27 <oerjan> rm quine \ 2016-01-18 <zgrep> ` echo "echo \\`quine" >> quine
00:59:53 <shachaf> `mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
01:00:28 <HackEgo> 2016-06-12 <shachaf> sled bin/hoag//s/"\\$@"/-- "$@"/ \ 2016-06-09 <shachaf> ` mv bin/ho{gue,ag}
01:00:48 <oerjan> i was wondering how to do something like that
01:01:18 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
01:01:24 <HackEgo> onëliner//onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance.
01:01:29 <HackEgo> onëliner//onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance.
01:01:33 <hppavilion[1]> It's widely agreed that it's turtles all the way down
01:01:48 <shachaf> We're at the top with probability 0.
01:02:20 <shachaf> oerjan: What are you looking for?
01:02:38 <zgrep> `tomfoolery turtles
01:04:00 <shachaf> oerjan: https://www.selenic.com/hg/help/templates will teach you how to format a date to include the timestamp, if you wish.
01:04:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: https://qntm.org/responsibility
01:04:18 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
01:04:21 <shachaf> oerjan: i thought of the same story tdh
01:04:24 <oerjan> shachaf: nah your doag is enough
01:04:55 <oerjan> shachaf: i assume we both learned of it on this channel.
01:05:16 <shachaf> Did I? I didn't think so but I don't remember.
01:05:28 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
01:05:51 <oerjan> shachaf: or you may have been the one who brought it here.
01:05:53 <shachaf> `slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag#
01:05:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
01:06:04 <oerjan> `` grep -r grep wisdom
01:06:21 <oerjan> `` grep -r -l grep wisdom
01:06:46 <shachaf> symmetry requires me to create dog so i can type {h,d}o{,a}g
01:07:58 * oerjan gives HackEgo some percussive maintenance
01:08:06 <HackEgo> <shachaf> slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ <shachaf> mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\\n" -- "$@" \ <oerjan> rm quine \ <oerjan> mkx bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk \'{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}\' | sed "s/.$/\\x0F&/" | xargs \ <b_jonas> learn physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in
01:09:03 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
01:09:26 <\oren\> I'm working on a colour scheme for my terminal because I don't like the one i have, and I don't like Solarized
01:09:27 <oerjan> did someone delete the file that linked to the current command line
01:09:56 <HackEgo> <shachaf> ` >bin/cmd echo -e \'#!/bin/bash\\npid="$PPID"\\n[ -n "$1" ] && pid="$1"; cut -d "" -f 3 < /proc/$pid/cmdline\' \ <shachaf> ` >bin/cmd echo -e \'#!/bin/bash\\ncut -d "" -f 3 < /proc/$1/cmdline\'; chmod +x /tmp/hmm \ <tswett> ` ln -s /proc/self/cmdline wisdom/reflection \ <Roujo> sed /proc/285/cmdline s/sed/des/g > dog \ <Jafet> (echo \
01:10:17 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ pid="$PPID" \ [ -n "$1" ] && pid="$1"; cut -d "" -f 3 < /proc/$pid/cmdline
01:10:24 <HackEgo> 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'cmd' | cat
01:10:39 <HackEgo> <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <tswett> ` ln -s /proc/self/cmdline wisdom/reflection
01:11:40 <oerjan> not a replacement for `quine.
01:11:47 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ pid="$PPID" \ [ -n "$1" ] && pid="$1"; cut -d "" -f 3 < /proc/$pid/cmdline
01:12:45 <oerjan> shachaf: still a little less featured. `quine could be used as a subcommand and still gave the whole thing.
01:13:15 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/ColorScheme.PNG
01:14:19 <shachaf> `mkx bin/cmd//cut -d "" -f 3 < /proc/${1-$PPID}/cmdline
01:14:28 <HackEgo> 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'cmd' | cat
01:15:00 <shachaf> oerjan: I was going to make a smarter version of cmd that always found the right HackEgo pid, but then instead of doing it I didn't do it.
01:15:22 <oerjan> sounds a bit tricky, anyway.
01:15:52 <shachaf> you have a superb skill at getting to the bottom of things hth
01:16:07 <oerjan> but not always superb motivation
01:16:12 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \
01:16:46 <shachaf> `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg
01:16:54 <shachaf> `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds
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01:17:03 <shachaf> i'm sensing a pattern here
01:17:04 <shachaf> `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib
01:17:06 <HackEgo> fetch \ limits \ revert \ sandbox
01:17:44 <oerjan> i'm sensing a broken pattern
01:18:15 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /opt/ghc: No such file or directory
01:18:38 <HackEgo> fruit \ spline \ spout \ tempcmd \ testcmd \ tmp_jonas
01:20:19 <shachaf> What sort of programming language supports serializing its state to a file and resuming later?
01:20:43 <HackEgo> physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English.
01:20:53 <oerjan> `slwd physiology s/p/P/
01:21:00 <oerjan> `slwd physiology//s/p/P/
01:21:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English.
01:21:13 <shachaf> oerjan: Maybe sled ought to split on the first space if it doesn't see a //
01:21:34 <oerjan> i dunno, it's not uncommon for sed scripts to contain //
01:22:22 <shachaf> But it would most likely just fail in that case.
01:23:04 <oerjan> also, for your other question, doesn't smalltalk do that
01:23:34 <shachaf> I thought Smalltalk was all about keeping a VM running forever.
01:23:44 <shachaf> Oh, well, you can serialize the whole VM, sure.
01:23:53 <shachaf> But that's hardly suitable for HackEgo scripts.
01:24:20 <oerjan> i think perl might also have such a feature?
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01:26:01 <HackEgo> We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
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01:34:44 <oerjan> `learn Oregano is the main spice in oreganic foodstuffs.
01:34:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'oregano': Oregano is the main spice in oreganic foodstuffs.
01:35:33 <oerjan> `learn Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
01:35:37 <HackEgo> Relearned 'oregano': Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
01:35:56 <oerjan> `learn Cuisine is the posh cousin of cooking.
01:35:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'cuisine': Cuisine is the posh cousin of cooking.
01:36:23 <oerjan> i'm not sure these are quite up to my ideal standard, but meh.
01:36:40 <shachaf> Well, they're certainly above the mean.
01:46:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hahahahahahahaha http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,857,067.PN.&OS=PN/6,857,067&RS=PN/6,857,067
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02:24:29 <hppavilion[1]> Intelligent Design: Doesn't actually imply that the blueprint matches the final result
02:38:48 <zzo38> Controlling colormaps in my computer does not seem to work as far as I can tell.
02:41:48 <zzo38> Is OpenGL interfering with it somehow?
02:54:11 <zzo38> Or maybe RandR is interfering with it?
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03:09:46 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Tue Jun 28 04:09:46 2016
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03:19:40 <zzo38> What I found is this https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=91f73b79b7ae64e5b846d1efeb470bb61a913720 so I should need to disable gamma somehow.
03:26:42 <shachaf> oerjan: well it's still yesterday here
03:39:39 <lambdabot> Local time for lifthrasiir is Tue Jun 28 11:39:37 2016
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03:52:44 <Sgeo_> ooh https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/4pun1f/looking_for_feedback_on_my_first_attempt_at_an/
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05:25:27 <lifthrasiir> Sgeo_: I agree that the proposed solution is clever in solving the coherence issue
05:26:27 <moon_> Im now playing df on my tablet using a remote linux
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05:32:21 <lifthrasiir> it should be very boring, GNU df(1) only has 18 options to try
06:13:19 <Cale> Playing dd is more exciting
06:16:04 <myname> moon_: i did that, too, but it was kinda disappointing
06:16:35 <moon_> It works good for me
06:17:11 <moon_> Im using Hacker Keyboard (replacement for the default), it has all keys on a qwerty keyboard
06:17:31 <moon_> inckuding alt ctrl and thag funny little key that i dont know the name of
06:17:43 <myname> i don't like it that much for regular writing
06:17:49 <myname> i am using multiling o
06:30:07 <\oren\> why not just plug a usb keyboard into your tablet
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07:06:35 <myname> most keyboards that are actually portable are lacking at one point or the other. plus: it's uncomfortable while riding a bus
07:07:23 <zzo38> A new X protocol could add many additional keysyms. These include UTCE keysyms (0x80000 to 0x8FFFF perhaps), as well as many extras: KP_Paren_L, KP_Paren_R, WindowManager, ZoomIn, ZoomOut, PrevTrack, NextTrack, PrevDisc, NextDisc, VolumeDown, VolumeUp, VolumeMute, ChannelDown, ChannelUp, MediaRewind, MediaFastForward, MediaPlay, MediaStop, MediaPause, MediaRecord, MediaEject, InputSelect, DriveSelect, OSD, OSD_Cancel, MediaTopMenu, MediaSubMenu, C
07:10:37 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, someone sent me a link to a talk from TEDxTrondheim
07:11:30 <zzo38> Some other keysyms can be stuff for telephone such as: AnswerCall, EndCall, Redial, CallerID, SpeedDial, etc.
07:11:53 <shachaf> What about Reredial, Rereredial, etc.?
07:13:26 <zzo38> You don't need it, although there could add a RedialMenu keysym if needed perhaps. (Also, like with any X server, you can program some keysyms to be shifted functions of others.)
07:17:13 <zzo38> (Probably you won't actually need RedialMenu though, just Redial; its exact function depends on the software in use, which is not necessary a X client; however if the same computer system can run X then it would expose this code as a redial function for the telephone.)
07:25:07 <myname> doesn't it have to be "an X client"?
07:27:38 <zzo38> To do on screen display for a TV set
07:28:48 <zzo38> Such as to display on the screen what channel/input/whatever. The built-in software may use this to display this information; another client may display its own stuff in this way.
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07:51:52 <zzo38> Do you think this is OK for the structure to define a widget class in a X client library? typedef struct XwicWidgetClass {
07:52:47 <zzo38> Do you think this is OK for the structure to define a widget class in a X client library? typedef struct XwicWidgetClass { int eventmask; int windowclass; void(*init)(Display*,Window,Window,XwicResource*); void(*destroy)(Display*,Window,XwicResource*); void(*event)(XEvent*); void(*expose)(XEvent*); void(*layout)(Display*,Window); void(*command)(Display*,Window,XrmQuark,XwicParameter*); } XwicWidgetClass;
07:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, it's always weird when you see someone from IRC in a different setting
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07:58:27 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if nomic rules make a declaration that something is to be done
07:58:44 <izabera> pretty sure in nomic you can change their binding-ness
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07:59:09 <hppavilion[1]> Could the nomic sue that external entity in the Court of the Internet?
07:59:40 <hppavilion[1]> "Agora is a sovereign game, and you shall not impede its glory!"
08:03:47 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: The Court of the Internet is really just complaining about it, and the verdicts of the CotI are (a) fuzzy- a partial punishment may be enacted and (b) enforced by 4chan et al.
08:10:57 <hppavilion[1]> Agora CFJ 24: "Players must obey the Rules even in out-of-game actions"
08:16:53 <hppavilion[1]> I opened a massive file of all known Agora rulesets
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08:33:24 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, "The Rules CANNOT compel non-players to act, nor compel players
08:33:24 <hppavilion[1]> to unduly harass non-players. A non-person CANNOT be a player,
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08:56:08 <hppavilion[1]> AnotherTest: I'm watching a video on standardized testing in the US. Your nick is very appropriate.
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11:01:40 <Taneb> I need to find a field I'd like to go into
11:03:34 <Taneb> With my undergrad in maths and computer science, I have a lot of choice
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11:39:04 <HackEgo> icfp//I see functorial people.
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11:43:00 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 11h 54m 12s ago: I can't take your exclamation seriously if they end with an exclamation mark but don't start with an inverted question mark hth
11:43:00 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11h 52m 37s ago: <boily> this is horrible! terrible! odious! outrageous! egregious! miasmatic! abhorrent! <-- running away before i can do my porthello? i agree.
11:43:00 <lambdabot> Etaoin said 11h 51m 30s ago: hey boily I just wanted to @tell you something cause everyone else did. I wanted to feel included cause my girlfriend just left me after 2 years
11:43:00 <lambdabot> Koen_ said 11h 47m 30s ago: terrible and odious? tedious!
11:43:01 <lambdabot> shachaf said 11h 44m 11s ago: this message is secret. please don't @messages-loud it in the channel twh
11:43:02 <lambdabot> shachaf said 11h 37m 37s ago: rainbhellow
11:43:04 <lambdabot> HackEgo said 11h 34m 23s ago: HellockEgo
11:43:06 <lambdabot> Etaoin said 11h 32m 9s ago: we're just spamming you at this point tbh
11:43:08 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
11:44:16 <boily> @tell hppavilion[1] hppavellon[1]. ¡!.
11:44:35 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. I shall remain for the contraporthello hth
11:44:47 <boily> @tell Etaoin beuh :(
11:45:21 <boily> @tell Koen Kelloen. I shall mapole you.
11:45:27 <boily> @tell Koen_ Kelloen_. I shall mapole you.
11:45:32 <boily> @tell Koen__ Kelloen__. I shall mapole you.
11:46:03 <boily> @tell shachaf hellochaf. I always get tripped up by not publicly massaging you.
11:46:12 <boily> @tell shachaf so many colours!
11:46:22 <boily> @tell shachaf did you type the colour codes yourself twh
11:46:41 <boily> wait. that one was from HackEgo???
11:46:44 <Koen__> @tell boily would you help me solve my nick problem? I need to pick a nick easily recognizable for those who know me as Koen, but which is not already registered on freenode
11:47:13 <lambdabot> Koen__ said 29s ago: would you help me solve my nick problem? I need to pick a nick easily recognizable for those who know me as Koen, but which is not already registered on freenode
11:47:35 <boily> uuuuh... something about your name?
11:48:01 <boily> don't you have any alternative nicks? remnants of a past identity? favourite colours?
11:48:12 <boily> @tell Etaoin spam spam spam spam ♪
11:48:57 <Koen__> on blognomic I was Ltn_Koen but I'm not in the army so that's a bit ridiculous
11:49:20 <int-e> colors, hmm. "turquoise" is free.
11:50:27 <int-e> pfft. "Unknown command: whoise"
11:51:13 <Koen__> I could make it LeKoen so it sounds more french
11:51:38 <int-e> `learn Typology is the study of typological errors.
11:51:40 <b_jonas> or does that sound too stupid?
11:51:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'typology': Typology is the study of typological errors.
11:51:50 <int-e> `learn Typology is the study of typographical errors.
11:51:57 <HackEgo> Relearned 'typology': Typology is the study of typographical errors.
11:52:05 <int-e> meh, that stupid brain of mine got distracted halfway.
11:52:54 <int-e> . o O ( oh look, a butterfly! )
11:53:22 <b_jonas> and you can't use Køen as an irc nick
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11:55:59 <int-e> (since boily seems to have missed his cue)
11:56:19 <boily> I wasn't playing crawl! la la la la la ♪
11:57:30 <b_jonas> ah yes, prefixing one letter
11:57:43 <b_jonas> that's what I did too when I figured that "jonas" is too common a name
11:58:25 <int-e> . o O ( /nick hint-e )
11:58:40 <b_jonas> although "hellkooen" might sound strange
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14:21:53 <quintopia> @tell boily I noticed you have run out of massages. Here's another to refill your massage bin.
14:33:21 <izabera> TODAY IS CAPS LOCK DAY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_lock#International_Caps_Lock_Day
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14:48:07 <LKoen> what are you gonna do about it?
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15:43:30 <HackEgo> CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES
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16:43:13 <\oren\> I used \ but I guess w_oren or just woren could have worked
16:43:13 <myname> caps lock day is way less awesome since there are two of them
16:48:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: what? aren't you the only oren?
16:48:47 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a.
16:49:01 <HackEgo> \oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... well, there isn't much else in a nick, is there?
16:49:32 <b_jonas> or was that to distinguish yourself more from oerjan?
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17:03:32 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/\oren\: not found
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17:25:19 <HackEgo> sftm//SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail.
17:27:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: widsom: not found
17:28:09 <HackEgo> ghci//GHCi is a local version of lambdabot. Cool, huh?
17:29:45 <izabera> `` ln -s wisdom bin/widsom
17:29:58 <HackEgo> wisdom is /hackenv/bin/wisdom \ widsom is /hackenv/bin/widsom
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19:23:12 <Etaoin> if we set a certain program to compile with all warnings turned to errors and having it display the same error if it happens more times believe we could take the stderr output and use it as a turing complete program
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19:36:50 <moon__> you know hbot is still alive and is now on a dedi? :P
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19:38:29 <moon__> you can use it again in #hbot YBDEN
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19:48:04 <moon__> shell bot similar to hbot
19:48:25 <moon__> you use the shell via >>> <command>
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20:09:31 <zzo38> For a new kind of X protocol I would to completely redo the keysyms I think. They are now 24-bit keysyms, where bit23 is the vendor bit, bit22 is the keypad bit, bit21 is the Unicode bit, and bit20 is the control bit unless the Unicode bit is set. Zero still means NoSymbol. Keysyms less than 65536 are UTCE keysyms. (All printable ASCII characters still have the same keysym as X11.)
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20:27:23 <HackEgo> precision//78.75211317% of the time precision is totally overrated.
20:27:23 <HackEgo> firefly//FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
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20:52:17 <HackEgo> 666) <monqy> kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list??????
20:52:25 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 6m 21s ago: hellochaf. I always get tripped up by not publicly massaging you.
20:52:25 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 6m 12s ago: so many colours!
20:52:25 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 6m 2s ago: did you type the colour codes yourself twh
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21:07:15 <wob_jonas> Whoa! I've never before seen a Savage Chickens strip that looks like it's an xkcd strip, but today's really does: http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/06/vader-buttons.html
21:11:55 <zzo38> One idea I have for new kind of X protocol also is to allow any drawable, colormap, or font, to have a will, which is a queue of clients. Any client that disconnects is removed from all wills. When a client disconnects, everything with a nonempty will will now be owned by the first client listed in its will and it will be removed from the queue, and the client that now owns it receives a WillNotify event. Any selections belonging to a window that
21:13:28 <wob_jonas> also, zzo38, I think your message is too long and trunc'd
21:14:11 <zzo38> When a client disconnects, everything with a nonempty will will now be owned by the first client listed in its will and it will be removed from the queue, and the client that now owns it receives a WillNotify event. Any selections belonging to a window that changed ownership in this way are also now owned by the new owner of the window.
21:14:16 <zzo38> Maybe now it is not truncated?
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21:14:53 <Taneb> wob_jonas, what's with the wo
21:15:47 <wob_jonas> Taneb: "wob" in the sense of http://www.xkcd.com/148/ , for I'm connected through the wob-based irc client Kiwi, and also it ends in "b"
21:15:53 <fizzie> I keep reading them either as "world of" or "web of".
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21:25:15 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
21:25:30 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Jun 28 16:29 bin/widsom -> wisdom
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21:33:46 <izabera> `` sed -i 's/(echo "\$1" | lowercase)/{1,,}/' bin/wisdom
21:34:22 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
21:34:41 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
21:35:28 <izabera> `` sed -i 's/cat "\$F" | rnooodl/rnooodl < "$F"/' bin/wisdom
21:35:47 <izabera> `` sed -i 'y/F/f/' bin/wisdom
21:36:04 <shachaf> You should use sled rather than sed
21:36:11 <shachaf> That way it prints out the new version.
21:36:35 <shachaf> Also cat file | cmd is better than cmd < file
21:37:14 <shachaf> No, it's not pointless at all. Other people need to see what you're doing.
21:37:14 <zzo38> It won't work for programs that require stdin to be a file.
21:40:50 <izabera> what if someone queries HackEgo and makes changes without telling you?
21:41:53 <shachaf> Then they're being a jerk about it too.
21:46:47 <wob_jonas> Is saying a "store" instead of a "shop" (for a place where goods are sold) a difference in meaning, or does it mostly just depend on which side of the ocean you are?
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22:09:29 <HackEgo> internationale//You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee.
22:15:20 <HackEgo> f="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"
22:15:41 <shachaf> I'm tempted to have it write out $f into a file in tmp/.
22:15:51 <shachaf> So that you can culpritslast it.
22:15:57 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/internationale
22:16:04 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan
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22:20:16 <shachaf> `hog wisdom/internationale
22:20:23 <HackEgo> <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/$/./\' wisdom/internationale \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <oerjan> run echo "You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee" > wisdom/internationale
22:24:09 <shachaf> oerjan: presumably all your activities are un-american?
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22:33:51 <izabera> https://www.reddit.com/live/x6320sn8e8e8 28 dead at istanbul airport...
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22:47:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found
22:47:53 <HackEgo> wisdom/bardsworthlist \ wisdom/bdsmreclist
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23:11:34 <lambdabot> quintopia said 8h 49m 40s ago: I noticed you have run out of massages. Here's another to refill your massage bin.
23:11:35 <lambdabot> shachaf said 2h 18m 52s ago: no hth
23:15:57 <boily> the massage was fullfilling!
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00:03:54 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 19m 19s ago: hellørjan. I shall remain for the contraporthello hth
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00:05:25 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> @tell Koen Kelloen. I shall mapole you. <-- warning: koen isn't actually koen_'s nick hth
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00:12:34 <Koen> @massages-loud
00:12:34 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 27m 13s ago: Kelloen. I shall mapole you.
00:12:38 -!- Koen has changed nick to LKoen.
00:13:57 <oerjan> LKoen: he also sent it to two _pended versions
00:14:36 <quintopia> oerjan: it probs gets auto-deleted after a while
00:14:37 <oerjan> quintopia: The Core hth
00:14:55 <oerjan> quintopia: not to my knowledge.
00:14:57 <LKoen> what happens if I touch an executable while it's being executed?
00:15:04 <LKoen> specifically if I recompile it
00:16:35 <shachaf> oerjan: how many days have you gone without a single pun twh
00:18:11 <quintopia> is there a verb for "to multiply by 16" on the same line as double, triple, quadruple...
00:19:49 <quintopia> oerjan: you can go forever if you always make double puns hth
00:20:11 <oerjan> shachaf: well do you count the days before i learned to speak? :P
00:20:23 <oerjan> also i probably didn't pun much before my student days.
00:20:29 <quintopia> oerjan: how old were you at first pun twh
00:20:31 <shachaf> i kind of assumed you'd always been around hth
00:20:42 <shachaf> anyway let's only count days that you were online on irc
00:21:10 <oerjan> still no idea. i don't exactly remember when i started punning obsessively.
00:21:24 <oerjan> might have been after i arrived here.
00:21:27 <shachaf> remember that play with stoppard?
00:21:34 <shachaf> https://4thwall.wordpress.com/notable-quotes-from-stoppards-coast-of-utopia/
00:21:38 <Etaoin> guys I need a bit of help and this is pretty damn noobish, but I'm having trouble with executing commands from a python script. I'm making a messenger bot for fun and I can't find a way to send commands to a terminal and have it keep its state
00:21:52 <quintopia> i like to think stoppard is the tom in tom swifties
00:21:56 <Etaoin> is there some nice way of doing this?
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00:24:59 <Etaoin> with it I can only execute commands and it basically closes the terminal immediately so for instance calling "cd .." won't do anything
00:25:21 <quintopia> https://docs.python.org/2/library/readline.html
00:25:46 <quintopia> this may not be what you're trying to do
00:26:05 <LKoen> quintopia: thank you
00:27:56 <Etaoin> when I think about it, I don't think the user should be able to cd around anyway so might as well leave it at this
00:27:58 <oerjan> quintopia: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sedecuple
00:29:12 <oerjan> that's actually the logical form...
00:29:52 <oerjan> well somewhat logical anyway
00:39:24 <zzo38> The documentation for XrmQPutResource does not quite make it clear what is stored in the database. Does it store value, *value, or a copy of the data pointed to by value->addr?
00:40:46 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
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00:44:12 <zzo38> (It isn't the first one at least)
00:45:46 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 8614 bin/wisdom
00:46:03 * oerjan approaches HackEgo with a mallet
00:46:09 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnoooooodl; cat "$F" | rnooooooodl
00:49:38 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s/[{}1,,[}]/(echo "$1" | lowercase)*"
00:49:44 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 38: unterminated `s' command
00:50:07 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//s/[{}1,,[}]/(echo "$1" | lowercase)/
00:50:13 <HackEgo> bin/wisdom//f="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)1,,}*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"
00:51:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:52:18 <HackEgo> f="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"
00:53:04 <oerjan> `` sed 's/[{}1,,[}]/(echo "$1" | lowercase)/' bin/wisdom
00:53:07 <HackEgo> f="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)1,,}*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnoooooodl; rnooooooooodl < "$f"
00:53:21 <oerjan> WHY IN THE WORLD IS THAT 1,, IN THE RESULT
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00:53:57 <oerjan> sed is driving me insane tdnh
00:55:10 <lambdabot> oerjan said 49m 44s ago: <boily> @tell Koen Kelloen. I shall mapole you. <-- warning: koen isn't actually koen_'s nick hth
00:55:54 <boily> because I am not sed, I am sane. cqfd.
00:56:25 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:57:50 <oerjan> i was going to do it more subtly but when sed does impossible things...
00:58:08 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:00:32 * oerjan thinks his blood sugar has crashed too, that's what happens after he has ice cream...
01:00:50 <oerjan> does wonders my patience
01:02:55 <boily> I could use some ice cream too..
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01:03:42 * oerjan gobbles a half slice of bread
01:04:53 <oerjan> @tell izabera <izabera> `` sed -i 's/(echo "\$1" | lowercase)/{1,,}/' bin/wisdom <-- those are not actually equivalent and i'm partial to the counterexample so i've reverted you
01:05:27 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:05:39 <HackEgo> lowercase is /hackenv/bin/lowercase
01:05:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/lowercase
01:06:24 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
01:06:33 <oerjan> yep, it was created for that one entry :P
01:07:02 <oerjan> and for learning things with Ø i guess
01:07:16 <oerjan> izabera: erm the `` versions don't all use the same LANG
01:07:52 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
01:08:52 <boily> because otherwise it'd be LANG=en_NZ hth
01:08:57 <oerjan> so that sort etc. works sanely
01:09:26 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
01:09:34 <oerjan> (that's for ``` btw. `` is of course bin/`
01:10:03 <HackEgo> aa_DJ \ aa_DJ.utf8 \ aa_ER \ aa_ER@saaho \ aa_ET \ af_ZA \ af_ZA.utf8 \ am_ET \ an_ES \ an_ES.utf8 \ ar_AE \ ar_AE.utf8 \ ar_BH \ ar_BH.utf8 \ ar_DZ \ ar_DZ.utf8 \ ar_EG \ ar_EG.utf8 \ ar_IN \ ar_IQ \ ar_IQ.utf8 \ ar_JO \ ar_JO.utf8 \ ar_KW \ ar_KW.utf8 \ ar_LB \ ar_LB.utf8 \ ar_LY \ ar_LY.utf8 \ ar_MA \ ar_MA.utf8 \ ar_OM \ ar_OM.utf8 \ ar_QA \ ar
01:10:05 <oerjan> also, lowercase is shared with other commands.
01:11:36 <oerjan> so it's used uniformly so that all of them apply the same transformation.
01:11:40 <izabera> `` printf %s\\n LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 'f=$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:12:00 <oerjan> what makes you think that works
01:12:08 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 2: : No such file or directory
01:12:19 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:12:22 <oerjan> it's precisely the locale it uses by default
01:12:41 <izabera> `` printf %s\\n LANG=en_US.UTF-8 'f=$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:12:58 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 2: : No such file or directory
01:13:21 <HackEgo> LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ f=$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*${1,,}" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooooooooodl; rnooodl < "$f"
01:13:54 <oerjan> also we have a nice `mkx command :(
01:14:23 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:14:26 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ +++ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ ++++ find wisdom -path 'wisdom/*Ørjan' -type f -print0 \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++ f= \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n // \ +++ rnooodl \ bin/wisdom: line 2: : No such file or directory \ //
01:15:25 <izabera> it's a bug that got fixed in 4.3
01:15:34 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:15:48 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
01:15:57 <izabera> at least let me fix that other shit
01:16:17 <oerjan> sorry i was reverting everything just because sed ganged up on me
01:16:47 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:16:52 <HackEgo> å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:16:59 <izabera> `` echo tr A-ZØ a-zø > bin/lowercase
01:17:04 <oerjan> hm how does that even work
01:17:05 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
01:17:25 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
01:17:33 <oerjan> tr doesn't handle utf-8, i guess
01:17:50 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:17:52 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++++ lowercase \ +++++ echo $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ find wisdom -path 'wisdom/*ørjan*' -type f -print0 \ +++ F=$'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n $'\303\270rjan//' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ cat $'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IR
01:18:00 <oerjan> hm? of course it does...
01:18:15 <izabera> no, just changing that stupid byte will do
01:18:35 <oerjan> yes, but won't that break on _other_ characters containing the same byte...
01:19:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
01:19:32 <oerjan> i'm wondering why Å worked...
01:19:49 <oerjan> they're separate entries.
01:20:17 <izabera> `` echo sed 's/./\l&/g' > bin/lowercase
01:20:18 <oerjan> now _that's_ insane. wisdom actually depends on Å _not_ being lowercased.
01:20:28 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/lowercase: line 1: /g: No such file or directory \ sed: -e expression #1, char 5: unterminated `s' command \ d-module//D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
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01:20:59 <izabera> `` echo "sed 's/./\l&/g'" > bin/lowercase
01:21:06 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
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01:21:30 <izabera> `` echo "sed 's/./\l&/g;s/Ø/ø/g'" > bin/lowercase
01:21:35 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
01:22:12 <shachaf> You ought to just use mk and sled
01:22:45 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:22:48 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++++ lowercase \ +++++ echo $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ find wisdom -path 'wisdom/*ørjan*' -type f -print0 \ +++ F=$'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n $'\303\270rjan//' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ cat $'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IR
01:22:58 <oerjan> izabera is too proficient at bash to use HackEgo safely
01:22:59 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -path "wisdom/*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooooooodl; cat "$F" | rnoooooooodl
01:24:03 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:24:07 <HackEgo> //cat: : No such file or directory
01:24:42 <oerjan> hm i think `? has a precaution against that
01:24:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
01:25:15 <izabera> `` find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*Ørjan*" -type f
01:25:50 <oerjan> oh. maybe that's good enough.
01:26:06 <izabera> `` echo 'f="$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooooooodl; rnoooooooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:26:15 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:26:24 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooooooodl; rnoooooooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:26:28 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: rnooooooodl: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
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01:26:47 <oerjan> it had to happen some time.
01:27:00 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnoooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:27:07 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
01:27:55 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: rnoodl: not found
01:28:14 <HackEgo> rnooooooooodl is /hackenv/bin/rnoooooodl
01:28:15 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: rnoooodl: not found
01:28:31 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnoooodl; rnoooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:28:37 <shachaf> You should just pipe the whole thing into one rnooodl
01:28:37 <oerjan> protip: `run is the only one which doesn't apply it.
01:28:40 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: rnoooodl: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
01:28:50 <shachaf> (echo -n ...; cat ...) | rnooodl
01:28:50 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:29:09 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; rnooodl < "$f"' > bin/wisdom
01:29:13 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
01:29:24 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:29:25 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ find wisdom -ipath 'wisdom/*Ørjan*' -type f -print0 \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++ f=$'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n $'\303\270rjan//' \ +++ rnooodl \ ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without not
01:30:04 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:30:06 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ find wisdom -ipath 'wisdom/*Ørjan*' -type f -print0 \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++ f=$'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n $'\303\270rjan//' \ +++ rnooodl \ ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without not
01:30:06 <izabera> `` set -x; source bin/wisdom Ørjan
01:30:08 <HackEgo> ++ source bin/wisdom $'\303\230rjan' \ ++++ find wisdom -ipath 'wisdom/*Ørjan*' -type f -print0 \ ++++ shuf -z -n1 \ +++ f=$'wisdom/\303\270rjan' \ +++ rnooodl \ +++ echo -n $'\303\270rjan//' \ +++ rnooodl \ ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without not
01:30:22 <HackEgo> ///hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: : No such file or directory
01:30:30 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:30:42 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:30:47 <oerjan> izabera: trailing space, i said
01:31:14 <HackEgo> Å//Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:31:28 <izabera> `` echo 'f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); { echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; } | rnooodl' > bin/wisdom
01:31:32 <HackEgo> å//å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:31:35 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory \ //
01:31:48 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory \ //
01:31:57 <izabera> how do i type this fucking thing without a trailing space
01:31:59 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:32:16 <izabera> why is my stupid client adding a trailing space in the first place
01:32:22 <HackEgo> ørjan//Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:32:47 <oerjan> i dunno. in other cases it usually happens due to nick completion.
01:33:31 <HackEgo> <oerjan> learn \xc3\xa5 is the same letter as \xc3\x85, unless you\'re HackEgo and don\'t understand things on top of letters.
01:33:57 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
01:34:34 <HackEgo> bin/learn:topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ bin/learn_append2:topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')
01:34:53 <HackEgo> bin/learn \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/mislearn \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/learn_append \ bin/multicode \ bin/? \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/bookofeso \ bin/tomfoolery \ bin/units
01:35:09 <oerjan> izabera: there are also some in le/
01:35:17 <oerjan> `` grep -r lowercase le
01:35:18 <HackEgo> le/rn_append:topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1)
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01:36:09 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
01:36:10 <oerjan> izabera: also, as i've been trying to point out, there's a wisdom entry that depends on Å _not_ being affected by lowercase
01:36:19 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnoooodl
01:36:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooooooodl
01:37:10 <izabera> why would it depend on a character being broken
01:37:14 <oerjan> shachaf: i fear that soon learn will be massacred
01:37:25 <oerjan> izabera: because there's one entry for å and one for Å
01:37:43 <shachaf> [0] days since oerjan last punned
01:40:21 <boily> quote from wikipédia: “libidinal energy being subjected to relentless sublimation under capitalism”. tdnh.
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01:42:13 <oerjan> boily: is that freudian marxism
01:42:49 <quintopia> i can say that capitalism has had little effect on my libido
01:43:30 <oerjan> quintopia: that's just because you don't take advantage of all the viagra offers tdnh
01:43:35 <quintopia> i think work energy and libidinal energy are separate magisteria
01:45:23 <shachaf> what is the meaning of thausible
01:45:32 <HackEgo> A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.
01:46:01 <oerjan> `learn A thausible action is one commited toward a thausiblee.
01:46:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'thausible': A thausible action is one commited toward a thausiblee.
01:46:20 <boily> another wikipédian quote: “ temporal, historical, and ontological disjunction in which the ostensible immediacy of presence is replaced by "the figure of the ghost as that which is neither present, nor absent, neither dead nor alive."”
01:46:34 <oerjan> `learn A thausible action is one committed toward a thausiblee.
01:46:38 <HackEgo> Relearned 'thausible': A thausible action is one committed toward a thausiblee.
01:47:49 <shachaf> 15:56:36: <int-e> FireFly: plausible, thanks
01:47:51 <oerjan> `learn An action should always have an equal and opposite reaction, whenever thausible.
01:47:54 <HackEgo> Learned 'action': An action should always have an equal and opposite reaction, whenever thausible.
01:47:55 <shachaf> I don't knw why you made me logread that.
01:48:29 <boily> quintopia: what are magisteria, if I may enquire?
01:48:42 <oerjan> shachaf: we'll try to be more whelming in the future.
01:48:55 <HackEgo> Whelming Wave \ 2UU \ Sorcery \ Return all creatures to their owners' hands except for Krakens, Leviathans, Octopuses, and Serpents. \ BNG-R, DDO-R
01:49:11 <quintopia> oerjan: thausible actions are temporal, historical, and plausible hth
01:52:31 <quintopia> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlapping_magisteria twh
01:56:08 <quintopia> so maybe a better word would be energitropia...
02:09:48 <zzo38> Another idea of new keyword ability of Magic: the Gathering would be, while this object is on the stack, no other spells/abilities can target anything that this spell/ability targets. As a part of this object's resolution, all of this spell/ability's targets become sheltered. Any player, object, or zone which is sheltered cannot be targeted. As a state-based action, all sheltered players/objects/zones become unsheltered if the stack is empty and t
02:11:23 <zzo38> if the stack is empty and there are no pending triggers.
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02:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> Pawbable claws: Police can enter your house on the grounds that they have reason to believe there's an adorable kitty inside that they want to snuggle with
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03:04:11 <lambdabot> boily said 15h 19m 55s ago: hppavellon[1]. ¡!.
03:06:04 <hppavilion[1]> @ask boily ...how did you know about that? I sent that exact message to a friend via Hangouts literally 7 minutes ago. ⸘who are you‽
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04:52:05 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any ways to exploit Relativity to make legally difficult situations?
04:52:22 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. exploiting simultaneity so that you commit a crime from some points of view but not from others?
04:52:53 <shachaf> you might get a speeding ticket hth
04:53:43 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, but you're unambiguously speeding if you're traveling at relativistic speeds even from your- wait, that doesn't work, does it?
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04:54:25 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, maybe we should change speeding laws from "It's illegal to drive faster than the posted limits" to "It's illegal to cause your surroundings to move faster than the posted limits while driving"
04:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I suppose the easiest way to exploit relativity is using the twin paradox to mess with the age of consent
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07:48:55 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: the courts will clear it up
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08:32:14 <hppavilion[1]> "If you came across a genie and it granted you one wish, what would you wish for?" (Peace on earth. |
08:32:14 <hppavilion[1]> A bajillion dollars. | Success and happiness for my family and friends. | To look young forever.)
08:33:17 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure if I have a bajillion dollars I can bring peace on earth, and if I look young forever I can use my eternal youthfulness to get money from other people with ridiculous products and schams
08:37:52 <int-e> Dollars just would become worthless quite quickly.
08:38:20 <int-e> And the third wish is the one where you end up in a glass coffin.
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08:40:15 <int-e> of course the first one might be the one that sets time back by a billion years or two.
08:42:32 <int-e> So, to summarize, the options are: Destroy Earth. | Destroy USD based economy. | Success and happiness for my family and friends. | Die young.
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08:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> If I were to bring Einstein from the past to the present, would that qualify as irony?
08:58:19 <hppavilion[1]> At first I thought it would, because relativity is the thing that really, physically prohibits time travel (I'm looking at you, tachyonic antiteleiPhone)
08:58:32 <hppavilion[1]> However, I don't think that that includes a rule about bringing someone from the past to the present
09:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> I forget, am I supposed to hate Sir Isaac Newton? The internet probably has a rule about this, but I don't remember it
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09:25:41 <hppavilion[1]> I literally looked up what the most boring government agency is
09:37:08 <myname> https://hassciencegonetoofar.com/sriracha-2-go-review-solved-an-unthinkable-problem-see-how/
09:42:55 <hppavilion[1]> "The server crashes if the user's password is a resolvable URL"
09:43:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'm scared to open the explainxkcd page because it might be a reference to a real bug
09:44:54 <HackEgo> imagine//Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs.
09:45:38 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: I don't think it's a reference to one particular bug, just a whole class of bugs. Like, you know, those that just interpolate a user-submitted password into an SQL statement literally. Or those that compare passwords with a php operator that converts strings to numbers if they start with a digit, so "1foobar" == "1quux"
09:47:40 <HackEgo> A universe is a poem in one stanza.
09:47:42 <hppavilion[1]> If you enter <emoji>.com in firefox, it converts to some sort of unicode name that could be a resolvable url
09:47:44 <shachaf> I guess there were many universes in that ceremony.
09:47:52 <hppavilion[1]> So you could have a domain name with an emoji name
09:48:00 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: but there have been cases when stuff have tried to resolve URLs in untrusted documents and download them, most importantly the ones where an XML reader read an external thingy that supposedly contained XML entity definitions required for decoding XML.
09:48:12 <myname> hppavilion[1]: punycode is no firefox thing
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09:48:41 <b_jonas> Then there's certain thumbnail-makers that ran viruses in documents when you just looked at the list of files with icons and thumbnails.
09:48:55 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, unicode has a "Reversed hand with middle finger raised" emoji
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09:51:34 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Oh really? I bet skin tone emoji are old news too, aren't they
09:52:23 <myname> middle finger and skin tones went through media a lot
09:52:26 <hppavilion[1]> And you've already heard that unicode is going to include small images originating in Japan as characters even
09:52:57 <hppavilion[1]> And there's a group emerging called the "Unicode Consortium" that aims to make a single unified character set- but you knew that already, didn't you?
09:53:47 <myname> unicode included small images originated in japan since years
09:53:55 <myname> pile of poo is an example.of that
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10:59:42 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And of course you already know about the eye and shirt color emoji modifiers?
11:04:10 <asie> hppavilion[1]: I checked the explainxkcd, it's *not* a reference
11:04:29 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, looking for a list of major modern human cultures
11:21:01 <hppavilion[1]> Take a collection of modern pop music- selected by some objective metric (perhaps a preliminary experiment?) that excludes blatantly autotuned music and anything targeted at teenage girls- then doctor it to sound like an older song in terms of sound quality and play it for old people (40s, 50s) and see what they think
11:21:48 <hppavilion[1]> In comparison to little-known-but-mainstream music from the same time period that the main group is targeted for
11:24:32 <hppavilion[1]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQY7BusJNU AKA The Induction Song
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11:44:54 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh, it's annoying that there isn't a central database of airplane wing masses for various models
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12:14:59 <hppavilion[1]> I just thought of a little social experiment I want to do
12:15:47 <hppavilion[1]> See if people share image macros explaining science that most people don't care about which reinforce their political viewpoints
12:17:07 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, counter the "JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS" people with bullshit science regarding the construction of the WTC that claims that the steel used in the towers contained certain intentionally-added impurities that made it stronger, but also lowered its melting point
12:17:30 <hppavilion[1]> Now, I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy theorist or anything
12:20:07 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_diagram#/media/File:Brosen_ironcarbon.svg ← you can use this
12:20:13 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] asked 9h 14m 8s ago: ...how did you know about that? I sent that exact message to a friend via Hangouts literally 7 minutes ago. ⸘who are you‽
12:20:28 <boily> how did I know what?
12:25:07 <hppavilion[1]> <lambdabot> boily said 15h 19m 55s ago: hppavellon[1]. ¡!.
12:25:42 <boily> I didn't know. I was punctubalancing. I'm a renowned Capitalist hth.
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13:00:49 <hppavilion[1]> Ha! If you google "\"Kilometers to pounds\"", you get links to sites that offer conversion because they don't really limit themselves
13:16:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I just had a rather entertaining idea for a story
13:16:38 <hppavilion[1]> It's like... 15% fanfiction, and the rest is original content
13:17:15 <hppavilion[1]> Each one forced to adhere to the rules of their own universe, while having access to their universe's technology
13:18:47 <hppavilion[1]> (For example, the Whovians have access to TARDi, sonic screwdrivers/shades/trowels, and psychic paper; Star Wars fans (aka good human beings) control spacecraft, blasters, lightsabres, and have a motherfucking deathstar at some point; bronies... well, they're basically the Swiss)
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14:14:03 <hppavilion[1]> I just did some simulations, and if you were to make a 100 piece puzzle and allow people to purchase
14:14:32 <hppavilion[1]> ...pieces individually and at random- that is, they purchase a piece but don't know which piece it is out of the set
14:14:51 <hppavilion[1]> They would, on average, need to purchase 479.7 pieces to get a full puzzle
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14:25:11 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: don't you mean 518.7 pieces on average?
14:25:52 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: not this time. but it's a well-known problem called the coupon-collector problem, right?
14:26:09 <LKoen> he didn't do the simulation, he knows the numbers by heart
14:26:16 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon_collector%27s_problem
14:26:17 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Because I have the patent rights to individualized jigsaw puzzle piece purchase simulation. You owe me $180,000
14:26:34 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.drunkmenworkhere.org/170 hurts my brain
14:26:36 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: when's the patent from?
14:26:45 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: I'm bet it's invalid because there's prior art
14:27:22 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: That's never bothered the US patent office before
14:27:56 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: besides, the number is totally unrealistic in practice, it only works for insanely stupid distributors where each piece is equally likely and the individual pieces you buy are independent
14:28:39 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: And, I suppose, we assume no one forms a coalition to trade pieces
14:28:47 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: real-world distributors simply have one or two of the pieces inaccessible, or skew them so you only get a random among the first 90 pieces from booster packs shipped to the West Coast, and 90 other pieces from booster packs to the East Coast
14:29:13 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: if you just omit a single piece from the packs, then nobody can complete the puzzle, but they have to buy a lot of packs till they can prove you're doing that
14:29:31 <b_jonas> omitting a piece completely from everywhere is a dumb way, it gets you tarred and feathered
14:29:32 <hppavilion[1]> (if 1000 people each buy 100 pieces for a 100 piece puzzle and trade their extras to those who need it, there will be many more completed puzzles than if each acts independently)
14:29:35 <b_jonas> but there are much better ways to do this
14:29:51 <b_jonas> you can just make some of your pieces more likely than others
14:30:44 <b_jonas> oh, and have a shitton of tiny letter legal disclaimer text on the packs, saying (if anyone can dig throuhg the language) that you don't guarantee uniform distribution
14:30:47 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Well I get that, but you said "and the individual pieces you buy are independent"
14:31:10 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: yes. if you only get West Coast pieces because you live on the West Coast, then they're not independent
14:31:53 <hppavilion[1]> So have the ultra-rare piece that has a bit of gold on the edge?
14:31:58 <b_jonas> you get West Coast pieces, which never include that particular blue one with no identifying features in the sky, and East Coast citizens never get that brown piece from the ground
14:33:58 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: no no! you can have shiny (foil) premium cards, but they shouldn't be just the rares. make every tenth pack have a premium card, and make sure people notice that any piece can be premium, so sooner or later someone will want to collect an all-premium puzzle and trade premiums more expensively than other pieces. but that's orthogonal to ordinary rarity.
14:34:45 <b_jonas> anyway, http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-gyx-spoiled.html contains a simulation of a similar (but not identical) problem
14:35:23 <b_jonas> and people have certainly simulated this sort of stuff ages ago, since back on early computers, with their punched cards and core memory and very flawed random generator routines.
14:35:29 <b_jonas> so you can screw your patent.
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15:38:46 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... it's said that a polytime solution to an NP-C problem collapses all of NP into P- that is, the discovery of a polytime solution to an NP-C problem proves P=NP
15:39:29 <hppavilion[1]> But I've never actually seen anything concrete about this- granted, I haven't seen the proof either (though reading the formal definition of NP-C gives a pretty clear idea of the proof)
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15:45:31 <hppavilion[1]> But I'd like to see a Python program (or other easy-to-read code- even pseudocode) that assumes a builtin function that solves the TSP (decision version, of course) and solves Sudoku puzzles on n^2*n^2 boards of n*n blocks
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15:57:08 <b_jonas> Git question. Does the reflog store the dates of the resets (as opposed to the dates of creating the commits)? If so, how do I display them?
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16:26:09 <izabera> how do i generate interesting random pictures?
16:26:50 <izabera> i tried to produce a valid netpbm by printing a header and then dumping it from /dev/urandom and i can't distinguish two different pictures
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16:37:11 <zzo38> Try some of my farbfeld programs and see if any of those help?
16:38:03 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/
16:38:10 <FireFly> Just random RGB will probably only end up looking grey
16:38:28 <FireFly> What kind of random images are you thinking of?
16:46:14 <zzo38> Yes, what kind of random images do you want anyways?
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17:00:59 <zzo38> This is one example that can make random pictures: bitff 100 100 h 000000 111111 222222 333333 444444 555555 666666 777777 888888 999999 AAAAAA BBBBBB CCCCCC DDDDDD EEEEEE FFFFFF < /dev/urandom | ff-enlarge | ff-bright rgb 0 .15 2 | ff-paeth d | ff-convolve 9 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 | ff-bright a 1
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17:17:31 <izabera> btw i really like your idea to make them valid shell scripts that compile themselves
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17:59:47 <hppavilion[1]> Human Microphone seems susceptible to telelphoning
18:01:34 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: re: Einstein.... now if you were to bring Einstein back to life "now" (murky concept, hmm) one million light years away...
18:02:13 <int-e> that *would* violate causality.
18:02:32 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: you said something 9 hours ago
18:02:53 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: But that sounded like you had already said something about this that I missed
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18:03:21 <int-e> I had not... I was at work
18:08:17 <HackEgo> olist 1042: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:09:21 <HackEgo> olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
18:10:27 <shachaf> Also there's a new 13-page PDF apparently.
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18:19:33 <hppavilion[1]> The true mark of the success of your rogue nation of religious fanatics is when Wikipedia's "Capital Punishment" infobox includes you execution method of choice as a "Modern" method
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18:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> The United States: Literally the only world superpower to still have the death penalty in effecct
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18:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, could an actually-humane death penalty be enacted by reverting to a gas chamber (let's pretend that that's not horrifying) and replacing the oxygen with CO2? Because the body can't detect lack of oxygen (according to The Martian- the most scholarly document of the millennium), so the person wouldn't really notice. We can even make it a nice room with a bookshelf (stocked, of course, with The Martian, the Holy Bible, the Qu'ran, the
18:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> Book of Mormon, the full works of Shakespeare, the important Einstein papers, A Brief History of Time, and any other relatively-easy-to-obtain books the condemned requests), a cozy armchair, nice yellow light, and perhaps a pipe
18:33:43 <hppavilion[1]> The condemned is likely given several hours to make peace before the final process is initiated- they get to finally initiate it (they hit the button), but if they wait too long it starts automatically
18:34:33 <hppavilion[1]> Executing prisoners should be done by the same standards that we perform euthanasia on the terminally ill
18:40:45 <zzo38> Death penalty is a mistake. Sometimes you will make a mistake in figuring out who is guilty, and then you cannot fix it because they are already dead. Nevertheless the prisoner should be allow to suicide by themself
18:42:17 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: The death penalty should be a voluntary thing- in certain sentences (specifically NOT including short sentences, because slightly unstable people will threaten to demand euthanasia if convicted which may result in a hung jury), the prisoner should be allowed to just end it instead
18:42:47 <hppavilion[1]> Because if I were to be in supermax for the rest of my life- solitary 23 hours a day, fed alone- I'd probably just go for death
18:43:55 <zzo38> Yes, that can be a reasonable idea.
18:44:41 <zzo38> Save energy too, by being dead; the dead need not to eat.
18:45:28 <zzo38> But, the people in the prison should be allowed to write too. Everyone must be allowed to write
18:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: And probably some rather limited internet of some sort
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19:04:47 <myname> in df, vampires also don't have to eat
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19:11:06 <hppavilion[1]> When you start installing an application from a verified publisher and your antivirus immediately goes off
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19:20:53 <HackEgo> freefull//FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
19:22:14 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: The body can detect CO2 very well
19:22:30 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: Nitrogen would work well
19:29:57 <HackEgo> treant//Treants are genericized ents for intellectual property reasons.
19:33:27 <HackEgo> soap//Soap is the main ingredient for the iridescent visions that internet startups sell to investors.
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19:55:10 <shachaf> @tell boily I ate poutine yesterday.
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20:55:16 <fizzie> shachaf: Did you pout afterwards?
20:56:08 <shachaf> I was poutine my proper place, that's for sure.
20:57:40 <wob_jonas> great, there was a new o while I was away
20:59:51 <shachaf> wob_jonas: There's also an 8-page PDF
21:12:24 <izabera> round its size to a multiple of 3
21:12:37 <izabera> find x and y such that x * y * 3 == filesize
21:12:54 <izabera> then run cat - file <<< "P6 $x $y 255" > out.pbm
21:13:01 <izabera> so you can see what your code looks like in pictures
21:13:09 <izabera> or what your file looks like in pictures
21:13:18 <izabera> or what your jpg picture looks like in pictures
21:14:59 <izabera> is there a way to get a picture out of HackEgo ?
21:17:25 <wob_jonas> izabera: yes, there's a command that lets you fetch a file from HackEgo's file system through HTTP, and you can view the pic locally that way
21:18:37 <shachaf> You might as well do the whole thing locally.
21:18:52 <izabera> i just found out that multiplying numbers together makes them very large very quickly
21:20:39 <izabera> this wouldn't be a problem but pixels are small
21:21:33 <izabera> so if i do this with a script i need a lot of code to make something visible
21:21:41 <myname> the question is: how do you choose x and y?
21:22:30 <myname> like, if you have 1000000 bytes, do you make 2^6 * 5^6?
21:23:29 <izabera> i'll just pick the closest divisor to sqrt
21:30:43 <myname> i thought about wether or not picking lowest and highest prime factors together will result in a good ration
21:31:32 <myname> like, if you have 2,3,5,7,11,13,17 you will make 2*17*5*11 and 3*13*7
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21:45:34 <izabera> pictures are pretty dull though, this is my /bin/bash http://i.imgur.com/mJxsB7J.png
21:52:47 <izabera> sorta like paplay --raw /bin/bash i guess
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22:24:59 <wob_jonas> I think I'll have to invest a point to modern times history. I'm sometimes getting fed up with the lots of stupid people here in the town, especially about how they keep blocking your way in mass transport vehicle doors (they want to get on FIRST, before other people, they don't care if people can't get off) or underpass corridors.
22:26:01 <moon_> Just program everyone tp want to get in first. Boom. Worldwide traffic jam
22:26:18 <wob_jonas> I should relieve some stress by hurling choice insults on them, but I want to make the insults politically correct, in the sense that it shouldn't accidentally seem like I'm insulting their appearance or origins. Sadly that can gets a bit tricky when it comes to public transport, which is why I'll need to learn some history.
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22:30:38 <wob_jonas> I wonder if there's a specific good guidebook for this.
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22:31:00 <wob_jonas> I know very little about history, I don't even know what books are worth to look at.
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23:16:56 <lambdabot> shachaf said 3h 21m 46s ago: I ate poutine yesterday.
23:17:05 <boily> hellochaf! how was it?
23:17:32 <shachaf> smoke's poutinerie, more like scow's poutinerie
23:21:12 <boily> you should try poutine with duck meat and green peas hth
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23:27:50 <fizzie> boily: Duck meats, green peas and boiled fleas.
23:33:00 <boily> I don't think that boiled fleas are edible hth
23:33:09 <boily> hellørjan. do you eat boiled fleas?
23:35:47 <oerjan> moily. only crushed and hidden in flour hth
23:36:57 <oerjan> fortunately green peas alone are a good protein source. i think.
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23:37:14 <izabera> i wanna show you something
23:37:20 <izabera> can you guess what this is? ls *mp3 | grep -v -- -rihanna | cut -d- 3-5 > out
23:38:22 <izabera> it's a bash command that's also valid in (( ))
23:38:52 <oerjan> boily: i was surprised too.
23:39:10 <boily> shachaf: you should then try egg curry poutine.
23:39:17 <shachaf> boily: how do you like smoke's poutinerie?
23:40:04 <boily> not tried yet. when I'll West Coast I'll smoke's.
23:40:28 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
23:40:55 <shachaf> But they have east coast locations.
23:41:10 <shachaf> In fact the majority of them are.
23:42:24 <HackEgo> Poutine was Pouti and boily's sister until the tragic cheese accident.
23:42:37 <oerjan> i'd forgotten that one
23:43:21 <oerjan> i think that's one of my better ones.
23:44:32 <boily> the nearest and reachablest smoke's are in Ottawa.
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23:50:15 <izabera> `` v=5; while (( ls *mp3 | grep -v -- -rihanna | cut -d- 3-5 > out )); do echo -n "$v "; done
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23:51:11 <izabera> it's my obfuscation technique
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23:56:51 <boily> izabellora. there's a negative rihanna in there. it's conspicuously egregiously salient hth.
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00:00:12 <izabera> could also add stuff like sed /x/d
00:00:24 -!- augur has joined.
00:00:49 <izabera> but then x and d can't be 0
00:02:08 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access *mp3: No such file or directory
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00:35:02 <boily> `` find -iname '*.mp3' -type f
00:35:39 <boily> `` file -krs share/Complaints.mp3
00:35:43 <HackEgo> share/Complaints.mp3: ASCII text
00:36:38 <HackEgo> bin/complain \ bin/complaints
00:36:42 <boily> Yesterday upon the stair, I heard an MP3 that wasn't there.
00:39:59 <boily> an MP3 is not meant to be seen, only heard.
00:40:21 <boily> (unless you're Aphex Twin and your face is in there.)
00:40:24 <HackEgo> 789) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september \ 1243) <ais523> (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing)
00:42:26 <boily> my references aren't *that* obscure...
00:42:37 <boily> most of the time, at least. or approximatively so.
00:43:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: camera: not found
00:44:02 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
00:44:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/Complaints.mp3
00:45:15 <shachaf> `complain I haven't been around kittens for a long time.
00:45:20 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:45:59 <shachaf> `complain The complaints file is too long to view in-channel.
00:46:02 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:46:19 <FireFly> `shuf share/Complaints.mp3
00:46:20 <shachaf> `complain Complaints don't get removed after they're addressed.
00:46:20 <HackEgo> now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved \ The complaints above are not using periods properly. \ Also, Gregor is never here to fix his bots. \ The floors are cold. \ I haven't been around kittens for a long time. \ Newbies get confused by everything HackEgo. \ Some people don't use the right command for filing
00:46:23 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:50:11 <shachaf> `complain I'd like to make the complaints file longer, but I can't think of any good complaints.
00:50:15 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:50:45 <shachaf> `complain I often have trouble getting to sleep.
00:50:48 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:55:20 <izabera> `` complain "$(( tr -dc a-z < /dev/urandom | head -c 10000 ))"
00:55:22 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: tr -dc a-z < /dev/urandom | head -c 10000 : syntax error in expression (error token is "a-z < /dev/urandom | head -c 10000 ")
00:55:32 <izabera> `` complain "$( tr -dc a-z < /dev/urandom | head -c 10000 )"
00:55:36 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:56:50 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:57:08 <shachaf> You're being a bit of a jerk there.
00:57:14 <shachaf> I've half a mind to complain about it.
00:59:04 <oerjan> it's just the annoyingness singularity.
00:59:35 <oerjan> the annoyingness of the world is growing superexponentially.
00:59:43 <oerjan> `? superexponential growth
00:59:55 <HackEgo> Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
01:01:46 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/superexponential growth
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01:36:27 <boily> `` complain My lungs aren't as efficient as they should be.
01:36:29 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:36:40 * boily mapoles the apostrophe out of HackEgo
01:36:48 <boily> `` complain My lungs aren’t as efficient as they should be.
01:36:52 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
01:36:59 <izabera> just use ` instead of ``<space>
01:39:16 <shachaf> `` tail -n1 share/Complaints.mp3
01:39:18 <HackEgo> My lungs aren’t as efficient as they should be.
01:39:30 <shachaf> `` tac share/Complaints.mp3
01:39:31 <HackEgo> My lungs aren’t as efficient as they should be. \ I often have trouble getting to sleep. \ I'd like to make the complaints file longer, but I can't think of any good complaints. \ Complaints don't get removed after they're addressed. \ The complaints file is too long to view in-channel. \ I haven't been around kittens for a long time. \ The "comp
01:40:15 <boily> right thumb right annular left thumb right thumb right annular left thumb left thumb
01:42:17 <boily> izabera: I like my nimble and dexterous fingers the way they are.
01:50:48 <zzo38> I thought to invent "one time pad protocol". The server sends a four-byte initialization vector to the client, the client combines the key, initialization vector, and timestamp, and ARCFOUR encodes a service ID, input pad offset, output pad offset, and service parameter, and send that to server.
01:51:47 <zzo38> The server now verifies that it is OK; if so, it begins one-time-pad encoding and sends to the client the service ID and timestamp (one-time-pad encrypted), and accepts data from client. If incorrect, the server sends random data to the client and ignores data it receives.
01:54:01 <zzo38> The verification will fail if it is not a supported service ID, if the offsets have expired, or if the offsets specified discard too much of the pad. Also there is a secret synchronization size; after that many bytes are send by either side, the next byte is a synchronization byte which is the one-time-pad encrypted counter that goes from 0 to 255 and wraps around.
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01:54:47 <pikhq> So it's impossible to distinguish a correct request from an incorrect one, presumably.
01:56:02 <izabera> but it is possible, e.g. if you're expecting to receive a certain reply when you send something and don't receive you know it failed
01:57:56 <pikhq> Yeah. I might be missing something, but I *think* zzo38's proposal has some serious faults.
01:58:06 <pikhq> For instance, is the data from the client plaintext?
01:58:10 <zzo38> If it is wrong then please tell me I can fix it
01:58:28 <zzo38> pikhq: No, it is encrypted with the one time pad (a separate pad is used for each direction).
01:58:45 <pikhq> *Oh*. That changes things somewhat.
01:58:58 <pikhq> I would not use ARCFOUR for it.
02:00:51 <zzo38> That is only for the initialization anyways, and is not used for application data. The ARCFOUR key is independent of any of the other parameters and the pad data.
02:01:02 <pikhq> I suspect there might be some other faults (courtesy of having not thought about it *that* much), but the use of ARCFOUR instead of a secure stream cipher is a big one.
02:01:38 <pikhq> Yes, but ARCFOUR is a completely insecure cipher at present, and shouldn't be used for any purpose.
02:02:02 <zzo38> The amount of initialization data is small so it probably does not matter, but a better one could be used as long as it is not too complicated, which would improve it.
02:02:50 <zzo38> (The size of the initialization data is fixed, so if it is replaced with a different cipher, it need not necessarily be a stream cipher; a block cipher could work too.)
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02:03:22 <pikhq> Chacha20 is not very complicated, and seems to be secure.
02:03:51 <shachaf> Should I prefer it to Salsa20?
02:03:52 <pikhq> (the latter is the current opinion of cryptographers, the former is my opinion, having implemented it before)
02:04:39 <pikhq> I *think* it's preferable due to getting better diffusion per round, but I don't really know for sure.
02:05:28 <pikhq> The main thing that Chacha20 has going for it that Salsa20 doesn't is that Chacha20 is seeing much more use.
02:09:43 <zzo38> OK then ChaCha20 could be used.
02:10:12 <pikhq> Presumably users of this wouldn't allow pad reuse?
02:10:21 <pikhq> Because... pad reuse breaks security.
02:10:59 <zzo38> Yes, as I said the verification fails if the pad is reused.
02:14:57 <shachaf> pikhq: not to mention hygiene
02:18:50 * boily mapoles shachaf. 0.3 shachafs.
02:20:58 <boily> 0.3. and that's only because I grant.
02:21:07 <boily> (what's the past tense of “to grunt”?)
02:21:49 <shachaf> Apparently they do make reusable pads, though.
02:22:07 <shachaf> I'm not sure that there's any application in cryptography.
02:22:48 <pikhq> I think those are called stream ciphers in cryptography.
02:23:21 <shachaf> I hope you don't reuse your keystream.
02:23:32 <coppro> I need a tshirt that says
02:23:39 <coppro> there are 1 types of people
02:23:41 <shachaf> i,i don't cross the keystreams
02:24:10 <zzo38> What else I did not mention is that the clock skew and clock granularity parameters are also secret parameters. (Also, the size of the initialization vector may be altered.)
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02:26:12 * boily_ *mumble* *grumble* fungotting router *grml*
02:26:13 <fungot> boily_: mr president, i abstained from the vote on friday. even before the summer holidays, and due to a lack of clarity in terms of citizens by guaranteeing that: ' in view of all the parties involved, including david trimble, and not the reverse.
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03:03:55 <zzo38> Is there any software for a mobile device to display a barcode given typed in input, that can then be scanned with another scanner?
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03:20:01 <quintopia> maybe not barcode, but probably QR code
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03:34:31 <zzo38> I would want for all types of barcodes though
03:35:10 <shachaf> zzo38: No, you only care about QR codes.
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03:37:11 <zzo38> No, I would need for all types, mainly for those that are not QR codes, such as UPC and so on
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05:15:27 <izabera> what's a fast way to write a large array with a value that takes 3 bytes?
05:15:47 <izabera> i mean my value is 'a' 'b' 'c' and i want my array to look like abcabcabcabcabc...
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05:39:15 <lifthrasiir> izabera: have unrolled copies of abcabc..., bcabca..., cabcab... and mass-copy them in the order
06:17:37 <zzo38> It has been said that "having a 'canary' you remove or choose not to update would likely have the same legal consequences as simply posting something that explicitly says you've received something." Can it be designed so that it is updatable and that you cannot update it if the government tries to get the data? There are a few other ideas too, including a way of encrypting the data such that you do not know the keys, etc
06:21:51 <zzo38> Or somehow use a forwarding service or video camera or something to enforce that letters they receive are known to public
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07:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> A chuck norris fact is that he can solve a rubik's cube with no hands
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08:25:45 <hppavilion[1]> I think I've listened to صليل الصوارم too many times
08:25:55 <hppavilion[1]> Now I'm going to start humming it in inappropriate circumstances
08:27:23 <hppavilion[1]> "Anatomically modern human remains of uncertain date, 90-190,000 years old."
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09:00:58 <HackEgo> hypergeometric? ¯\(°_o)/¯
09:08:40 <hppavilion[1]> OK, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RbLLYCiyGE is impressive
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09:52:04 <izabera> i wrote a thingy that generates these https://i.imgur.com/uLdaHaF.png
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12:32:38 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently, at 25,000 signatures on a petition the White House has to release an official response
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17:46:47 <izabera> openvpn lets you run it twice with the same config
17:46:56 <izabera> same gateway same destination same everything
17:47:02 <izabera> it creates two tap interfaces
17:47:12 <izabera> and sometimes one works and sometimes the other one works
17:47:19 <izabera> why does it even let me do this?
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18:13:04 <b_jonas> ais523: have you seen the preview of Eldritch Moon (M:tG)?
18:13:28 <b_jonas> it contains something I didn't think was possible
18:14:39 <b_jonas> the rules aren't known yet because there's no set FAQ
18:14:50 <b_jonas> but it seems to me like it will cause lots of rules trouble
18:16:17 <b_jonas> the easiest broken situation is a melded creature with Gift of Immortality attached and the Gift activating
18:16:40 <b_jonas> but there might be cases worse than that
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18:42:34 <ais523> FireFly: basically it takes two cards from exile and places them both on the battlefield transformed as one large card
18:42:56 <FireFly> Yeah, that sounds fun rules-wise
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18:43:30 <ais523> (the existing meld cards are templated as "exile ~ and a creature named Y, then meld them")
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18:44:27 <FireFly> Ah, so for now it's pretty restrictive
18:44:45 <FireFly> As in, only applicable to specific pairs of creatures
18:45:20 <ais523> FireFly: they each have half a creature printed on the back
18:45:27 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, specific cards that are printed one-and-half-of-a-double-side-faced (as opposed to transforming cards which are printed double-faced)
18:45:39 <ais523> right, they basically invented 1½-faced cards
18:51:24 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah. and if a third un-set is ever made, they'll probably have to make fold-out three-faced cards which can be played face down with morph, then unmorph, then your choice of flip or transform (to one of the inner sides) or meld (to the other inner side) to top it
18:51:43 <ais523> no, clearly it needs to transform into a flip card
18:51:59 <ais523> or maybe have a flip card that transforms into another flip card
18:52:05 <ais523> with different flip conditions pre- and post-transform
18:52:16 <ais523> (ofc, you could actually do that in black border, but I somehow doubt it'd ever be printed)
18:53:04 <b_jonas> or the transformed side could be flip, and the flipped transformed side would have the meld ability, and the melded creature could level up of course
18:53:39 <b_jonas> probably not all of those would be creatures
18:54:13 <ais523> is it possible to have a creature that levels up into a nonland creature?
18:54:29 <ais523> err, a noncreature land
18:54:42 <b_jonas> ais523: two flip cards on two sides would be funny, because with the current rules, if you transform the permanent, it would keep the flipped status
18:54:49 <ais523> I guess you'd need a characteristic-setting ability as you don't have anywhere to put the new type line
18:54:51 <ais523> b_jonas: yes, that was intentional
18:55:15 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, maybe a characteristic-setting ability
18:55:41 <b_jonas> I wonder if split cards could be in this somehow, but that's hard to imagine, split doesn't combine with anything but manifest
18:55:48 <b_jonas> split only goes on instants and sorceries
18:57:02 <b_jonas> oh! but Primal Clay would combine with any of level up, morph, transform, flip, meld
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19:00:35 <b_jonas> the primal clay ability takes only two lines of text in a normal-sized text box, and has very confusing rules implications, especially on things like morph/manifested cards that etb without the ability
19:01:32 <b_jonas> hmm, actually meld would let you print a double-sized flip card with large text box, so it'd be sort of a good combination
19:02:22 <b_jonas> obviously that part should be a permanent you want to tap often, to make physical handling of the two cards plus counters difficult
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19:44:08 <Taneb> Can anyone recommend some CS or maths podcasts I can listen to during a two day journey
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20:06:25 <b_jonas> Portugal - Poland 0-1 so far
20:07:16 <b_jonas> or is it Poland - Portugal 1-0 instead?
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